User talk:Tupu/Build Archive/Build:Team - 55/SS

Rate-a-build
Please test and vote on 

Old vote before the AI nerf archived to Build talk:Team - 55/SS/Archive

Old vote before the AI fix archived to Build talk:Team - 55/SS/Archive

Tested:
 * 1) This works fine, you just need to be a little careful about keeping aggro.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 18:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) Wtf are you guys saying? Just tested this with Kalomeli and we had NO problems. Works just like before. I suggest testing again and changing the votes accordingly. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:03, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * The AI is a bit harder than originally, but I just managed to clear all of the 3 basic areas and even complete the Unwanted Guests quest. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 21:20, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) I used this build with Gem and it did work just fine. It is harder than before, but it does work. Kalomeli 16:17, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) Still works, and still works well. Defiant Elements 23:52, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * 3) Still works, heck, I can still run up and use Br on the monk and not get aggro. (I play got 55 and SS, depending on what guild mate is coming with me), That, be more carefull stuff, just means after you cast a spell run back so that your aggro range is way far out from the monsters. Biggest mob we took, 14 smites, 2nd biggest, 8(or around that) coldfire nights. And so what if a squid/smite breaks off (I have NEVER seen a group of 4 or more axxate) you just run around and around while SS kills the rest of the squids/smites attacking the monk (Since they scatter due to SS, or so you say). If the breaking off is such a problem, just get the necromancer to bring some healing or cast healing breeze on him (it does work). (End useless post/vote thingie) Dr Titan 05:24, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * 4) Just tested, worked fine until my SS accidentally broke agro on the squids and I was too tired to notice. Though I was using an SoA/Spell Breaker build. --Armond Warblade (talk) 03:03, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * 5) Build works great. As is full smite runs are pretty easy (I'm the SS), even after the AI change (Teach your 55 monk corner blocking!). With some changes to the 55 build we regularly clear out all the Terrorweb at the end of the run from the Servants of Grenth quest. --Slocketman 20:52, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Unfavoured:
 * 1) I'm a very good monk, with almost 8 mil exp on my monk. But needless to say, this team has been nearly put to death. Its not even close to as useful and eficient as a trap team (i saw the 2 man one, which looks good) if you use them right. (TheSinner 22:06, 26 December 2006 (CST))
 * As an experienced trapper and SS I can tell you that this build is still a bit faster than the new 2 man trapping team. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:31, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * How is that needless to say? tried it latley?--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 14:56, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Discussion
an iconic build, more flexible and less specialised then Build:Team - 55/SS FoW. --Honorable Sarah 12:35, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * rm watchful for a full heal. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:47, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

Typo?
Isn't there supposed to be a superior smiting rune somewhere in there? --mgrinshopon
 * yes, but there no reason to list it, no smiting skills --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 13:36, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

Question
Does the armor level really matter? I want to kill with Kurzick style, but is it really such a big deal? --mgrinshopon
 * kinda, it affects the AI selection routeens, but not to the point where it's a major deal. just tell the SS/Sv to stay back --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 13:37, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

The SS
I would like to note that the SS build that's posted there is pretty non-standard. For one, it has parasitic bond and then SV and AV both. That makes little sense. If you'll be covering SS with Parasitic Bond, then you don't need SV and AV, and if you'll be using SV and AV to drain the smites, then you don't need parasitic bond. Also, the very high Soul Reaping is pointless as I have already argued in the N/Me SS Nuker article. In fact, my so-called "illusion heavy" SS build is the optimal for UW SS nuking. --Karlos 14:26, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * parasitic bond is to cover SS on the smites for the first cast, when edenial might not be complete. Sv and Av is used to maintain constant coverage of one spell, so you don't loose edenial if the smites don't go down right away. it's safty. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 14:36, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * It's a wasted skill slot. SV, then wait 2 seconds, then Echo, SS, then AV... GG. There is no way you would need 3 slots just to kill the smites. I kill then with ONE skill slot. Just Illusion 12 and SV, game over. --Karlos 14:37, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * it's coverage, an extra safety mesure. but ok, mr. expert, what do you propose in it's place? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 14:45, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Desecrate Ench. --Karlos 14:55, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Karlos is right. This build is otherwise ok, thou I use a slightly different one. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 16:55, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * One possible use for the excess Soul Reaping is to put it in Blood Magic and take Awaken the Blood. It rocks my day making killing a bit faster. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:09, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, replace Parasitic Bond with Blood Ritual to help speed things along when your monk is low on energy, otherwise in favor.--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 18:52, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * A monk who uses the signet whenever he can wont run out of energy and wont need BR. Take something more usefull. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:09, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * For the most part, I tend to agree, but having run an SS Necro through UW more times than I'd care to count, it always seems that fighting creatures such as terrorwebs, the monk always needs a bit of energy afterwards. I honestly don't find that any more damage is truly needed, though I will admit that both defile and desecrate deal mad amounts of damage to most creatures in UW.--&mdash;  xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 08:19, 27 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't even think that the SS has energy to use all of those damamge skills here. First Arcane Echo, then SS, then new SS. If you get one SS recharged double fast wit hthe staff mod, use third SS. Then Desecrate. Where is the energy for Defile? BR is okay, but not necessary. Actually the only necessary skills are Arcane Echo, SS, SV/AV (maby both) and res sig. I don't even use Reckless Haste myself. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 09:23, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * The build I use is listed here, and works very well.--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 17:58, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

So this was marked tested, but no one cared to chande Parasitic Bond to Desecrate Enchantments? -- (talk) 05:11, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

I don't see the point of desecrate enchantments. I have never used it on my SS and I farm pretty regularly. Also using AV and SV all the time will usually keep your energy to low to ech your SS.--Coloneh 17:27, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

I suggest that the Desecrate Enchantments be offered up as an Optional slot as it isn't really pertinent to the build at all and even though it is a nice bit of extra damage, it is not neccessary for the build at all. Often times, monks ask me to bring another skill in its place. Depending on the monk, this skill could vary very much. But, maybe that skill slot should be offered up as optional but make suggestions below the skill bar as for skills to bring such as "A useful skill to bring in place of the Optional slot would be Desecrate Enchantments or Defile Enchantments. Another alternative would be..." So on and so forth. And my MAIN question is: "Where is the Reckless Haste?" This skill is pretty much STANDARD for SS's these days. I don't understand why it's not included in this build. If it's because it is centered for Prophecies-only, we need to look at the possibility of changing it to a multi-campaign build as UW is accessible from both continents and this isn't the standard 55/SS team anymore if it ever was. If you are going to make Campaign-based builds for this team, I think they should only be included as variants. -- Jyro X (talk • contribs) 17:38, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * The current skill set is not what it was when this was vetted. An anon user(s) has changed the skills to a prophecies-only variant a few times. This was noted by me and others, but the discussion never went anywhere (see Proposed Changes section of this talk) and no one ever reverted. And you're right RH should absolutely be included by default, make the change =) BigAstro 19:32, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Done. =) -- Jyro X [[Image:Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|25px]] (talk • contribs) 19:59, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

It is possible to do this build with only Prophecies skills, one would just have to choose when to echo SV, and when to echo SS. More specifically, echo SV with Smite Crawlers to avoid Smite Hex, and echo SS when dealing with Aatxes and Squids. This may vary depending on the build of your 55 and if he has interruption prevention. Reckless Haste is another skill that this build could do without, it merely speeds up the killing and isn't absolutely essential for the build to work.

As far as the empty skill slots go, putting some attribute points in Blood and using Vampiric Gaze, combined with Insidious Parasite, could greatly help the scattering problem. If the only 1 Squid or Smite is chasing you, then using Insidious Parasite along with Vampiric Gaze on it could be a better option than simply running. Also, there is no reason to not bring Awaken the Blood for the extra 2 attribute point boost on Curses and Blood.

Smite Crawlers also tend to come in groups of 4 or 5 a lot. When this happens, they ARE going to scatter and the best approach is to echo SV, cast it, wait a few seconds for their energy to drain so they can't use Smite Hex, cast SS, then cast the echoed SV when SV is about half way done recharging. When you see the scatter don't run just yet, wait for SS to recharge and cast SS again on a different Smite Crawler that hasn't scattered (looking on the minimap and tabbing is a great way to see which one you're targeting), then run. After your energy regens a bit, and if only one Smite Crawler is chasing you, you may even consider taking it on by using Insidious Parasite, SS, and/or Vampiric Gaze. Another good strategy, since you run faster than Smite Crawlers, is to run, cast Vampiric Gaze, run, cast, etc. If you have an experienced 55 you may even ask him to cast healing breeze on you while you're tanking a Smite. --Showercurtain 16:34, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * I have a Video response One way to counter the smites scattering, is to simply go stand right next to the monk before they run. Make sure your monk knows to put healing breeze and protective spirit on you before you start dying, but if you cast correctly you should have no problems killing all of the smites before they get you. Of course, corner blocking is much safer and works just as well, but this is just something else you can try. --Slocketman 20:58, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

The 55hp
Replace one of the monk enchantments with Blessed Aura. You only need mending and one of the energy giving enchantments, so change it with one of those. I would remove Watchful Spirit. -- (talk) 17:03, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * with two energy gain enchants i've been able to spam the enchantments and i've don't usually have problems with them running out, esp with a 20% enchant weapon --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 19:45, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * You can spam them even with one energy gain enchantment and the 20% weapon if you use Blessed Signet whenever you can. Blessed Aura is just extra precaution AND you can also easily protect the SS if a loose Aatxe attacks him. Why not reaplace Watchfull with BA? You would have still 2 energy gain enchantments. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:18, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * watchful provides for a +3 regen in a worse case with an ataxe (bleeding without breeze) and a free emergency heal should degen get the better of you. how could you protect the SS with Blessed Aura that you couldn't without?  --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 03:32, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * As the SS I really like the long lastin PS cast on me in fight where Aatxes, Graspings and a Dying Nightmare are pulled t the ame time. To attack the Gying, I need to walk relly close to the main fighting and one of the Aatxes or Grasps might easily start to attack me. I dont say that BA is necessary, the build would work wihtout it and even with only one energy management and one healing enchantment, but I think that it would mke the build safer for a beginner than Watchfull Spirit does. This also removes the need for BR on the SS totally, because you don't need to spam your skills so often and the 2 energy management enchantments + Blessed Sig are more than enough to keep you at max.
 * My regular 55hp runs her build with one energy management enchantment, Mending, Belssed Aura and Rebirth. (just in case I die or something, not necessary really) Like I said, it'n pretty irrelevant which one you use, but after testing some 55hping with my girlfriends account, I think that BA makes the whole thing more relaxed. (I actually got bored ;) ) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:52, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * i find 55-ing to be very boring with this build, even if i miss a recast at the 11th second, i'm still covered for nearly 20 seconds on PS, and have enough regen to keep alive until i can get breeze back up. don't forget the recycle times on PS and breaze are in the low single digits. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 04:04, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * After trying this 55 build with a guildie word for word (for the 55 build, god knows what he did with the SS), I can say the 2 health gain enchantments are extremely useful against the Grasping Darknesses which interrupt me, and the energy gain ones are perfect to allow spamming of healing breeze and protective since the things keep interrupting me. --mgrinshpon
 * They wouldn't be interrupting you if the SS necro used Symphatetic Visage/Ancestor's Visage on you. It drains all of their adrenaline and they can't use their interrupts. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:02, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

Essence Bond - I don't believe this skill should be included in the default skillbar. I haven't seen hardly any 55's using this skill (myself included). I save this skillslot for either Bonetti's Defense or Rebirth (in case my SS/SV gets creamed). The energy you get from Balthazar's Spirit and Blessed Signet should be more than enough to make up for Essence Bond if you refuse to take it (and that doesn't even consider if you bring Bonetti's Defense with a Warrior secondary. You also get 1 pip of energy regen. I vote that slot be offered up as Optional as it's not really a required skill for the build to work efficiently. I know because I've ran it many many times without it. -- Jyro X (talk • contribs) 21:06, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

Question - Can we throw in a variant with Arcane Echo and/or Mantra of Inscriptions, or are these covered by a Mo/Me build I haven't noticed? Just thinking that echo SB is really helpful in some situations, and you can never deny the usefulness of extra energy... However, my monk isn't yet ready to test any 55 build (getting there, though...), so I don't know if you really need the extra energy or if that slot could be used for something else. --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Enemy Notes
We should definitely put enemy notes here for the UW to let the 55's and SS's to know what to look out for, making it more beginner friendly. --mgrinshpon

Proposed change or Variants
195.172.60.108 changed the skills but forgot the check them here 1st.I've revert the page back but I think could at least be mentioned in some way in the varients section.

For the monk that's
 * Watchfull Spirit out
 * Blessed Aura in

And the Necro
 * Reckless haste, Ancestor's Visage, Parasitic Bond and Defile Enchantments out
 * Awaken the Blood, Blood Ritual, Suffering and Desecrate Enchantments in.

What do you all think? ( I'd post a vote section thingy but I'm not sure how best to do that :o)

--JP 11:28, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Monk - That's a reasonable swap depending on your play style.
 * Necro - Aside from suffering, those are reasonable skills to swap in and could be listed in a variants section. It kinda looks like the anon user was trying to make a prophecies only version of the build, right? BigAstro 12:51, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Could well be. There weren't any clues in the edit comments. I like some of the changes but feel they should be added as varients to preserve the original build. :o) --JP 12:57, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Agreed. Even those I use some of those skills myself, the main build as it is shouldn't be changed at this point. BigAstro 13:18, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * The monk change is great. The new necro is fine, but replace suffering with Ancestros Visage. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 13:53, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't know precisely how it should included but I think that the anon user wanted to show there was a viable prophecies only variant, which I think is a fair addition to the article even if that variant is slightly inferior to the original. What exactly is the policy for campaign specific variants on the wiki? Generally, is it acceptable to make a separate mini-section for that? BigAstro 14:06, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Since the skill bar has been changed, we also need to clean up the article to remove the referenced about the old builds. Also, I'm removing Suffering for Ancestor's Visage. It's a critical skill to make sure the 55 or 600 doesn't get interrupted along with its duplicate. --Mgrinshpon 13:55, 17 September 2006 (CDT)

Another anon user made the exact same changes again. BigAstro 20:31, 16 September 2006 (CDT)

For 55 monks with Nightfall, I propose:


 * With a potential 6 enchantments cast before Mystic Regeneration, you can theoretically have +24 health regeneration.
 * Balthazar's Aura can also be placed on the SS Necro for an additional +3 regeneration from Mystic Regeneration. This is also helpful since Dying Nightmares will try to Rend Enchantment on the Necromancer if he's closer instead of the Monk.
 * Unlike Healing Breeze, Mystic Regeneration will almost never be interrupted, and lasts twice as long.
 * Shield of Absorption will allow for very large groups of enemies attacking the monk.
 * Essence Bond is not totally necessary if you are fine with the lower energy gain, allowing for Rebirth.
 * Your both better know what you're doing, because you have next to no way of healing the SS Necro if he's attacked.

The SS Necro can be somewhat variable, but I recommend the standard build with Desecrate Enchantments and Leech Signet. The interrupt comes in handy if Spell Breaker runs out and there's still a Dying Nightmare alive. This team build was designed to do a full Labyrinth and Ice Wastes farming run, killing every Bladed Aatxe, Smite Crawler, and Terrorweb Dryder. Including completing the quest Servants of Grenth. Video of the quest. --Slocketman 04:07, 19 March 2007 (CDT)


 * You always both need to know what you're doing nowadays >.> Once you get past the Aatxes you can lose the armor if you want to be a better tank, that build's almost identical to my old 550 (?) hp SB/SoA/MR build. Wouldn't recommend it anymore, though, as Aatxes have interrupts (and you might not want to use it on Colds now that I think of it either). --Armond Warblade (talk) 13:51, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Why don't you recommend it because of interrupts or vs. Coldfires? During battle the only difference from the standard build is that you're casting Mystic Regeneration instead of Healing Breeze (really don't need SoA until Servants of Grenth). I guess if they manage to interrupt Mystic Regeneration the recharge is two seconds longer, but it's a 1/4 second cast time vs. 1 second for Healing Breeze. My experience using this build is that they just don't interrupt it. Plus since it lasts twice as long, some battles you don't even need to recast it. --Slocketman 14:30, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It can easily interrupt SoA, and with that much hp you can't rely on MR for healing. And breeze is 3/4 casting time. Armond 19:24, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * SoA can be interrupted by the grasps, but the only time you actually need it is vs all the terrorweb at Servants of Grenth. It is a 55hp build (just didn't list the other runes), so mystic regen is enough healing for everything but that quest. Healing Breeze is a 1s cast time, look at the skill. The nice part about this build is that two skills you've taken out, Mending and Healing Breeze, aren't enough to survive the quest, but the two that replace them make it pretty easy. Also since you only have to cast Mystic Regen half as much as HB, you can more easily drop Essence Bond for something else. --Slocketman 08:09, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I know Breeze used to be 3/4 second cast. I'm sure it was. >.> And why drop Essence Bond for something else when you don't have to? What would you recommend? Rebirth. Duh. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:04, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Attribute Spread
Why is Soul Reaping 9+1-3? --Mgrinshpon 13:44, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
 * That means you can either wear a minor, major, or superior rune. There isn't a "required" rune to wear. — Jyro X [[Image:Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|25px]] (contribs) 00:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks, but you're a month late, I'm afraid. Someone already changed it to 9 + 1...3, to make it more clear. --Mgrinshpon 15:44, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

No Revert Wars
Gem, not sure if you read the discussion before doing the revert you did, but it was decided to change the SS build to the NEW standard SS/SV build. If you want to change it back to the old build, please discuss it first and see who else is in favor with you. The changes I made stood for about a week so it seems to me that you are the only one that had an issue with the newer version. And to the anon user, please discuss before making so many changes to the builds. Thank you. -- Jyro X (talk • contribs) 03:02, 30 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Answered this on my talk page. Sorry. :( --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:31, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

what about blood ritual
 * Blood Ritual isn't mandatory and a lot of 55's will request that you bring something else instead of BR. So, it isn't really a part of the default/mandatory build. P.S. If you think about it, if the team is using this default build, the monk should get sufficient energy from Blessed Signet and you shouldn't be using BR. Just my opinion. — Jyro X [[Image:Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|25px]] (contribs) 13:50, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

I noticed that this segment: "A high Soul Reaping is not really needed, it only gives you (near) full energy after the mob is killed. So you can remove ALL points in Soul Reaping (you can keep the minor rune) and use the attribute points to raise your Illusion Magic to 12. This will give you a nine-seconds-lasting Sympathetic Visage or Ancestor's Visage. It will decrease the time that the tank doesn't have SV/AV on him. Now, this advantage might not look so great, but it can prevent the Smite Crawlers to gain energy. So that they won't use Smite Hex on your precious Spiteful Spirit. (This can save a lot of time.)" Is really wrong for doing quick runs. You only get 1 more second of SV and AV, but you lose so much Soul Reaping that you will have to wait quite awhile for your energy to go back up after each smite group. If you're casting in the correct order and waiting the proper amount of time to cast your hexes the 1 second extra SV will make absolutely no difference. I think that section should be removed from the main page. --Slocketman 17:21, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Ambiguity redirect-ish
It's pretty easy for people like me to mix up the 55 and the SS in the title, so we go searching for "Team - SS/55" half the time. Also, people just casually coming on to the wiki to look for the team won't know which comes first. Is there any way we can redirect any hits for "Team - SS/55" to here? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:39, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Redirect page created: --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 04:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks, man. I may have to take the time to learn how to make one of them. :P --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:45, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * #REDIRECT Page Name Here — Jyro X [[Image:Spiteful_Spirit.jpg|25px]] (contribs) 00:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Aha. Thanks. --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

Soul Reaping
As Karlos has said above, this build is pretty high on Soul Reaping... I honestly don't see the point of it here. Most of the time it'll activate just as everyone dies, in which case you may as well wait for your energy to regen. I've done UW runs with 3+1 Soul Reaping (9 Illusion so you can keep SV/AV up constantly if you watch the recharge, 9+1 Blood for AtB and BR [which, from the 55s standpoint, is quite useful if it goes on long enough], 12+1+3 Curses) just fine. I would vote for changing the build to reflect this. I would say that at the very most there should be 5+rune Soul Reaping (thus 8+rune Blood Magic). Lastly (and this is just my opinion, so it probably has no place in the article), I don't see why there should be a soul reaping rune in the first place.

Thoughts, anyone? --Armond Warblade (talk) 16:32, 15 October 2006 (CDT)


 * If no Blood Magic is used, the setup is fine as it is, but if BM skills are used, then move points from Sould Reaping to BM. I'll change the article. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:12, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

Protection Prayers Question
Protection Prayers: 12 + 3 + 1...Where is that extra 1 coming from after attribute points and superior rune? I can't find an explanation in the equipment section. Then again, if it's recommended to use the Totem Axe/Rajazan's Fervor with a CoA Grim Cesta, I'm further dumbfounded. --Pneuma 9000 05:18, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Well, I must look dumb, but I figured it out: the extra +1 in Protection Prayers is granted by the Defender's Scalp Design from Droknar's Forge. I got confused only because it isn't stated in the Equipment section where the Ascetic's armour is listed as a requirement. --Pneuma 9000 05:44, 24 October 2006 (CDT)


 * That happened to me a few times >.> That's standard guildwiki way of stating the headpiece bonus. Dunno where I found that out, though... But either way, it's a good thing to know. Wondering where we can put information like that to make it more available to the general public. --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:18, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Does this still work??
Because Skull Crack now always interrupts and monk get dazed maybe is a Mo/Me better with Mantra of Resolve instaid of Blessed Signet and the necromancer takes Blood Ritual this stops interruption and the build is still succesfull.. --Tomoko


 * But Spiteful Spirit now changes agro. There's almost no way for the monk to get it back, either. --Armond Warblade (talk) 08:46, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

A way around agro breaking?
See if you can follow my logic here.


 * 1) Due to a recent update, SS now breaks agro.
 * 2) When agro is broken, the monsters will go attack the necro.
 * 3) SS is a Hex Spell. <-- Key!
 * 4) Hexes (along with, theoretically, damage spells such as Fireball) break agro.
 * 5) Mark of Rodgort is now an AoE hex.
 * 6) A Mo/E with Mark of Rodgort and Zealot's Fire could do mad burning.
 * 7) A 55 Mo/E with Mark of Rodgort could pull agro back towards himself.
 * 8) Once the monk has agro on himself again, the necro CANNOT cast SS again until MoR recharges, or all the enemies will attack the necro again.
 * 9) Arcane Echo is no longer needed.
 * 10) A monk using MoR and Zealot's, if he were to carefully cast his enchantments once every three seconds, could keep near-continual burning on the monsters without causing AoE scatter or breaking agro.
 * 11) The way I figure it, a Mo/E could have just enough attribute points to get MoR to cause burning for three seconds.
 * 12) 14 healing prayers is required for 13 health regen between Breeze and Mending (enough to counteract bleeding and still have 10 regen).


 * 1) Armond is gonna really hope that he got the attribute points right.
 * 2) The SS would have to bring Blood Ritual because there is no room for Blessed Signet.

Anyone see any flaws? If not, anyone got time to test it? Please tell me it works...

While I'm at it:


 * 1) Protective Spirit reduces all damage to 5 on a 55 hp character.
 * 2) It takes 11 hits to kill a 55.
 * 3) Spirit Bond works after 10 hits.
 * 4) Careful timing of Spirit Bond might be enough to let the 55 live through the nerf (not a 600, though).
 * 5) Bleeding causes health degen not counteracted by Spirit Bond.
 * 6) Ranks in Divine Favor heal a 55 when he casts Spirit Bond or Protective Spirit.
 * 7) Careful timing of casting these two skills can counteract bleeding.

Another thing to test, if you guys have time? (I don't, yet.) --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:23, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

One thing I have been working on was lowering the SS hit points, the 55 monk cast all the spells on the SS while the SS hits the enimys with SS. the SS should be able to kill the enimys fast enought so the 55 won't really have to worry about energy lost. the thing is thoe I can't get no lower then 95 hp with my necro.

The Mo/E buid
I don't think that using Zealots Fire would work because the monsters react to it like its an aoe so they will scatter. Anyway im gonna try it out.


 * Ah... Just thought of that. Kill Zealot's for, um, a thingie. Blessed sig maybe. --Armond Warblade (talk) 20:56, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Because Mark of Rodgort will trigger without, right? --Mgrinshpon 21:58, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe switch Zealot's fire with a fire damage dealing wand if you find that they scatter Dr Titan
 * Or Pheonix or something. --Mgrinshpon 21:48, 28 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Smart people! Yay! Good ideas. 71.141.128.138 20:19, 31 October 2006 (CST)

(AKA Armond, who's too lazy to log in :P)

Possible Alternatives
Wouldn't one of these be more effective now?

A Spirit Bonder invincible monk with another monk that puts Holy Wrath and Retribution on the 55. This is a common build nowadays but I don't think it's really been thought about until now because SS always killed faster. But now, SS is going to take way longer.

Also a 55/Famine Ranger team works really well too. I've actually tested this one. A R/Me casts SV/AV on the 55 and then lays down Famine. Works extremely well vs. the aataxe and smites. — Jyro X 09:21, 2 November 2006 (CST)


 * Have you tested 55/Famine recently? In my testing, Aataxes flow off anyone with SV or AV on them and have no problem hunting past the 55's aggro circle to find the ranger. My freind and I have been looking for new dual-UW options, but so far testing has failed. My understanding is that solo still works, but I have more fun playing with other players. :/ Oblio 14:55, 3 November 2006 (CST)
 * I tested it about a week ago and it seemed to be working fine. I don't know if a more recent update changed it or not though. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 18:20, 3 November 2006 (CST)

Possible Solution to Agro loss
Well as we've no doubt noticed, when the necro uses SS, the mobs break agro from the 55 and attack the necro. The same thing happens when you use SV/AV. Monsters are now programmed to go for the person who's dealing the most damage, or so it seems. Proposed solution: switch roles. This would likely require teamspeak or at least a rather competant monk, but what you could do is put the SS in 55 armor, similar to the N/Mo solo build. The SS would retain all the normal SS skills, arcane echo, SV/AV, reckless, etc, but would now have 55 HP. The monk would then load up the necro with the maintained enchantments, and procede to cast and recast prot spirit and breeze on the 55 necro. This is where the coordination comes in... the monk would need to keep track either in their head (or via teamspeak/ventrillo/etc) of when they need to recast breeze and prot spirit. If you could get this to work, basically all your problems are solved... since the SS is still doing the damage and using SV/AV on himself, the monsters will hold agro, while the monk sits back safely and maintains the enchantments.

If the 55 necro is uncomfortable with having a monk look after their hp, they could swap their secondary to monk and keep prot spirit and breeze on their own character, while the monk simply maintains the enchantments, maybe bringing heals or damage evasion such as guardian to help deal with the interupts, since neither character would have SV or AV in this case.

Thoughts?
 * That is not how the AI works. The AI runs from the area where the damage and/or negative effect is coming from. And they always make the person with the lowest armor level their primary target if they are in even range as compared to all other possible targets. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 18:59, 16 November 2006 (CST)


 * I have tried this the day the aggro was nerfed. Was in UW with a guildie 55, and after the aatxes broke aggro we switched roles. I was in 55hp gear as SS with the guildie casting breeze, prot spirit etc. on me. However the moment he cast the enchantments on me, the aatxes broke aggro and went for the monk. After he ran out of aggro and the aatxes stopped chasing, I could stand next to them and wand them without the aatxes attacking me. The aggro was still locked to the monk. So if anyone knows if there's any rational way in which the aggro works please do tell... 194.72.81.130 20:39, 17 November 2006 (CST) Mera
 * It's hard to talk about because the AI has gone through so many tweaks. As of a few days ago, a SS could kill the Aataxes just fine as long as I (55) held them in small groups (3), they would SS themselves to death, just like before. Squids can be taken in groups of 3 the same, no problem. Smites become an issue when they come in groups >3. Basicly, they like to run out to the edge of the monk's aggro circle to "heal up", and if they encounter the SS at that time, they retask to him. There are 2 solutions to this: 1. A good 55 can body block them really well.  I'm not that good.  2. The Necro can be a 55 as well.  However, and apologies to Necro's for this, a modified Famine build works just as well as it used to. Oblio 10:31, 27 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm honestly thinking it's time for Tuker/Support (instead of Tank/Nuker) two-mans. That means we use enchantments to deal damage, but the enchants land on the tank and therefore deal damage from him. Need some brainstorms to this - currently have Shield of Judgment, Sliver Armor, and a Dark Aura/Cultist's Fervor combo. --Armond Warblade (talk) 01:41, 28 November 2006 (CST)


 * What if you had a 55 Solo Necro AND a 55 Monk doing a dual run of UW? I know that the Necro can do it solo with no problems but it can take ages. With both of them able to keep themselves alive from attacks, would this work? -- Bakuru 07:13, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * That works fine, I've tried it. However, I still favor 55/Famine (MoMe/RaMo), which works fine. For specific build notes, check the talk page of . It's worth noting that I've worked with some people who say that the 55-Monk can body block large groups so that they don't break off towards the necro, but I've never been successful at it. So it's possible that this build is still doable with the right execution. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:17, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Unfavored
This is quickly approaching losing it's favored status. I've had people tell me in game that the build still works if the 55 body-blocks correctly. I would love to put my vote in the "favored" column if someone can prove that to me. So, if you are a 55 or SS that knows how to do the body blocking, and can show me how in game (I'll pay, I can play either role), PM any char linked to the "Oberon al Duun" account (that is, add that to "friends" and PM whichever char I am logged in as) and we can have a go of it. Please do not do this just to get a free crack at UW if you don't know how to do it- I know perfectly well how to watch a SS die to an aataxe or grasp. -- Oblio (talk) 15:02, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * I agree. Unfortunately, with three unfavored votes, it's already in the unfavored category... Unfortunately... --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:03, 12 December 2006 (CST)

there is no reason for this to be here. it still works fine, both players just require a little skill. its also best if the monk is the one to take AV/SV--Coloneh RIP 18:56, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * Go and vote for favored. (test first if you want to) The AI isn't doing anything stupid if the SS just realises to keep some distance to the enemy. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:34, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * I'll make a small chang to the 55 monk build, due to the reason that many people find it hard to keep the SS alive. I'll replace Balthaza's Spirit with Rebirth. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 21:09, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * Once the SS is considered an enemy of the mob, it will stay an enemy of the mob for the duration of the combat. This will happen the first time that SS is cast. If the group is of 3 or less creatures, it doesn't matter, and will work fine. But for any larger aggro (group of 4 grasps, or groups of 5 smites), creatures will occaisionally break away to go attack the necro. If the necro is really good, or the monk is really good at healing 2 people at once, this only slows down the run. If either of those isn't true, it ends the run. The one way that I have found this to still work at full efficiency is with a 55 Mo/Me (SV/AV) and a 55 Ne/Mo (SS) (the SS then simply pulls the extra aggro right back next to the monk to leverage sv/av. Anyway, much slower now than a properly excercised.


 * A caveat to this is that I have seen a way to make this work fairly well, which is by using choke points to body block mobs against the monk. The problem is you have to memorize body block locations. There is a thread about this on Guru, if I find it, I'll try to post it here. As it is, I'll try 3 more smite runs with random SS necro's from ToA, and vote unfavored if I fail to complete 2. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 03:01, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Have you tested after the newest mob AI change? Currently the enemy only break rarely, and in those cases the monk can easily cast PS + HB on the SS so that they can both stay together and et the SS do the job. I'm both an eperienced trapper and SS and both teams are equally efficient now. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:24, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Instead of taking a random ss feel free to PM me(character names on my userpage). i really want to get this out of the unfavored pile and would be glad to help prove it works.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 14:41, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'm also ready to act as a SS, and User:Kalomeli as a 55 monk if needed. I wrote a guide at User:Gem/Builds. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:01, 27 December 2006 (CST)

alright so i went into UW with Oblio a little whille ago, and we didnt do so well, granted we were both have some difficulties (Oblio's baby and my keyboard tweeking out). it will work with a HB monk but only a pro and with great aggro managment. the absolute best path i have seen to using this build is the monk using 105 SoA monk. only need to maintain Essence bond, balth spirit, and blessed aura. the monk should also be the one taking SV and AV. the monk build is a little more fixed, but works better. the necro can then drop the points in smiting and invest in inspiration and soul reaping to reduce downtime.--Coloneh RIP 23:36, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Thanks again for the run Coloneh. The test that I wanted to do, which turned out the way I suspected, was aggroing 7 Grasps and seeing how things went (since small groups aren't really effected by the AI changes). My general point is that in that situation, this is a difficult build to run (and that isn't a crazy situation to get in). Of course, that can be mitigated by using environmental clipping. (Coloneh pointed out that simply aggroing 4 was much better and more reasonable, and I agree with that- but I did want to get an over-aggro test in there). But I think we need to fix the build page to talk about strategies for success, and we need to talk about failure rates of a smite run with this build. (As a comparison, my failure rate on R/Mo Famine+Mo/Me 55 is below 10%, my failure rate with this build lately is about 50%. I'm fairly good at 55ing, but no "pro"- still, I don't think this is a "pro" issue.  There is just information about the right way to clip aggro that needs to get into the build. Coloneh also mentioned that he was getting similar failure rates to mine on this build.  Gem, you use it- are you doing 100% (or close) on smite runs? -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:22, 4 January 2007 (CST)


 * We've only had time for a few runs, but aside from the first run where we were both rusty after a few months break, no failures. As mentioned before, we also completed the Unwanted Guests once, and we hadn't even cleared the Forgotten Vale before that, so we had to face some Vengeful Aatxes. We had some aggro breaks with larger Grasping+Aatxe groups and Smites, but the monk can easily cast HB and PS on the necro, who then pulls all enemies together. I don't know if Kalomeli is a natural talent or if the casting is just really easy, but we have had no problem in aggro break situations, although it takes more time as the necros spells get interrupted. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:14, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * yes, the monk healing is pretty effective, but i ran the wrong way(stupid coloneh). I really think we need to work the SV/AV onto the monk's skillbar so the necro dosnt stay in aggro any longer than he needs to.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 18:08, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * The time you spend in aggro range isn't the most important factor. Incorporating SV and AV to the monk build would make this harder imho. The necro has free space anyway, where the monk is really tight. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:07, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * I can't help but disagree with those statements. Sure, the necromancer build is open for optional skills, but the monk is by no means "tight." There are only a FEW skills that a 55 must bring to survive: Protective Spirit, Balthazar's Spirit/Essence Bond, Spell Breaker (can be interchanged with Obsidian Flesh), & Healing Breeze (can be interchanged with almost any high regen regenerative spell; Mystic Regeneration for example). The rest are pretty much optional and I interchange them all the time and AV/SV is pretty much staple on my 55 monk build now as I love running with a Famine ranger. And of course, the SS should always bring Spiteful Spirit, Arcane Echo, and Reckless Haste. These are STAPLE. So, the necro only gets one more optional slot than the monk. Not trying to start an argument, only pointing out an inaccuracy. =) — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 03:42, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * k. :) However, Reckless Haste is not necessary as I don't have it in my bar at all. It can be easily replaced with something else for the extra damage. I prefer Desecrate Enchantments+Defile Enchantments. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2007 (CST)

55 variants
Anyone else think we could easily put a more stable 55 in here, such as a SoA 55 with Watchful Spirit? Would make for better farming. That, or a Mystic Regeneration 55. --Armond Warblade (talk) 20:55, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * yes, thats kinda what me and oblio were discussing on my talk page --Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 21:28, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * Maby keep both variants as separate skill bars? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 08:36, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm up in the air on what to do to this build. Gem says it works as stated, so I tend to think it should stay, though I think it needs more notes in terms of usage, tactics, etc. It doesn't work well for me, primarily due to Necro fragility. Throwing in Rebirth on the monk may or may not help (I haven't tested) but seems scary to me. I've found that I can't tank Grasps without Sv/Av, and if the Necro dies at that point, I can't see how bringing the corpse to me at low health and no energy will help much. My success rate with the given build is only about 30%, and that is always referring to Necro deaths. Changing the tank build to an Sv/Av tank would help, but you pretty much have to ditch the healing line and go pure prot (SoA) due to lack of space on the skillbar. That means no dryders/mindblades for you. I've kind of given up on making this better as I can't think of how to. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 10:48, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * How the hell are you getting the necro killed with the Graspings? You could even have the necro tank as they really don't make a lot of damage. A single Healing Breeze is more than enough for one or two aggrolosing grasps as long as the necro immediately runs to the tank so that all grasps are in the effect range of the SS damage. And Rebirth is not meant to be used while in combat. Break aggro first.
 * What comes to the other skill bar, it should be added here as the main skill bar as it is better suited for a pure farming trip. Just add clear notes like "This skill bar is for a pure farming trip of Aatxes and Smites" and "This skill bar is capable of doing more than jsut the basic farming run, but isn't as easy to play." The necro build should have 2 skill bars too, one with and one without SV/AV. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:01, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * To simply answer the question, 3 grasps on the necro are a problem if you run out of Sv/Av (fear me, distracting) or the necro gets out of cast range. I suspect you are shielded from standard behavior since you have a regular partner. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:07, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * You should be able to cast 2 SS before aggro break, which is more than enough to kill the grasps if the necro quickly moves to the tank after the aggro break. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:10, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Stuff like that should be on the main page.(note, I don't SS, so I don't generally comment on proper SS behavior) -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:15, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ok, I'll add a nicer explanation on the page. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:19, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Done. I think it's pretty good now. The other build would be easier to add in the variant section to avoid a complete rewrite. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:32, 8 January 2007 (CST)

A Solution to aggro breaking: Corner Blocking
Well, this is something really nifty I learned from a friend of mine, "Healing Heavon" (all credits go to him) while dualing UW with him, some of you might heard of this, but most of you's didn't. It's basically something call corner blocking. What it basically does is block the monsters from breaking aggro. You aggro up to 10+ monsters like this if the 55 is experienced enough. Due a a game update, whenever there are 3+ monsters, they ALWAYS attack the ss necro or the famine ranger. To counter that, the 55 monk has to properly pull them into a line, like "Follow the leader"(explained below) Now, you have to be at a corner or something similar to a corner. Now, notice the monster when they go around corner to attack, they ALWAYS take the shortest route, which is basically at the tip. What the 55 monk does is make them do follow the leader and aline the monsters parallel to the wall.(This is basically a rough undetailed draft, you can't explain it well in written work but this is the best I can do FOR NOW, I will try to post pictures or maybe upload a vid. of it, when i find time in my busy schedule, so sorry folks, updates aren't gonna come fast) The 55 monk stands at about the edge of the corner to block the shortest route to the famine or ss. These monsters are too doumb to go around when you do it properly, it takes practice. Since i don;t have any pics yet, ima try to draw it using dashs and stuff. ^^ ( IT WORKS! ) and if it doesn't, ur not doing it right. DDD M <---Monk blocking corner   Legend: M=the 55 ---|                                    N=the ss or famine |                                    D=The monsters |                                         | N<---necro agasint the wall, just in casting range of monsters

So when u aggro, when ur about to block them and at the corner this should be the "Follow the Leader" DDDDD>> M >>

Monsters are in a line following 55, The 55 should rubberband against the wall when leading them to corner. The SS or famine should STAY OUT IF RANGE AT ALL TIMES. Until the block is successful.

Half of the time, when it is done successfully, some monsters will just satnd there and not attack, yet stilll be in range of ss or famine to work, why? Because the monsters are preferring the attention of the ss or famine rather than the 55. So you can thank corner blocking. ^^ And obviously this will not work when not done properly, so necros and Famines, don't blame the 55 if he is new to this. Fastest runs ever also, blew through the smite, labryinth and did part of restore monuments of grenth and did part of "the village", as i call it. in 40 mins. Usually takes about an hour+:P

P.S Someone should clean out this aricle. Feel free to comment. My in-game name is Silent Fry, feel free to PM me wit questions about this. ^^ Also Keep a low-profile bout this, don't want ANET nerfing this. Also I might consider moving this to the build page as a new tactic.

(SilentFry) 9:14 PM, 08 January 2007 (EST)

what do you mean by complete UW run? as in complete smite run? or clear labrinth, icy waste, forgotten vale, twin serpents, chaos planes, spawninng pool, and bone pits? and also, for the corner blocking, how far away from the wall is the monk? like hugging the wall? or a little bit of space? and does it have to be a 90 degree corner? etc? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.123.220.152 (contribs).


 * Why do you need this? Overly complicated to negate a small problem which is easily overcome with th etips on the build page. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 16:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * This might seem complicated but it isn't once you understand, explaining it is. Trust me, once you see it in a vid or in action, you'll get it. By the way, since the NF update everyone seems to have a problem with aggro breaking. I'll try to get pics and myabe vids, like i said, I have a busy schedual. This tactic is to have a much more effecient run in the UW. (SilentFry) 4:32 PM, 09 January 2007 (EST)
 * this dosnt make much sense. and the aggro breaking isnt that bad if you manage your aggro propperly.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 16:43, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * If you can use this to pull and hold large aggro (by post-nerf standards), then you could get closer to pre-nerf run speeds. I need to make time to do more of this stuff, I wish US could get favor closer to 10 than 12... If this works well, it's a great addition to the talk page. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 16:30, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Move to the Euro servers pal :) SilentFry 14 Januart 2:00 (EST)


 * Here's a short video using corner blocking. It shows how you quickly you can take down 5 smites using this, eventually I'll get a better video from the monk point of view showing how to line them up. There are places you can corner block for every group of smites in the Ice Wastes, they don't have to be 90 degree corners. I'll try to get a video of multiple groups of smites at once too. --Slocketman 21:38, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

55/SS Variants
55 Hp monk

Try it, test it, you'll find its more efficent.

SS Necro


 * Screw normal res sig, it's all about Sunspear Rebirth Signet. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:30, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Screw BR. The monk should use Blessed Sig. What is reversal doing there? And there is absolutely no need for the mantra as AV/SV prevents Graspings from interrupting you. Imho the monk build in the article is far better and needs less thinking to play. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 02:23, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Screw Mending, all the cool kids are using SoA (I don't really mean it, I'm just hopping on the band wagon). What I would really like to see is someone doing time trials of SS vs. Spoil Victor. Meh. My opinion of all of these is the same- any build which brings the support member into aggro has a higher risk of wipe than any build which doesn't. FWIW, I ran about 10 runs as an SS with a buddy using something very close to an earlier version of the front page, and we were pretty much 100% on run completion- but TeamSpeak was key. For pugging, I stick to the safer runs. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 15:47, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Wow lots of talk here. I thought I'd toss my 2 cents in by throwing up the monk build I use for this team, which doesn't seem to be up here yet, and pretty much guaruntees my survival no matter what.

With this I have the luxury of a constant SoA, Watchful Healing to counter the aatxes' bleeding attacks (as I've already got a number of ranks invested in Divine Favor and it costs less than HB), as well as immunity to interupts. It's almost impossible to kill a monk with this build. Only problem is that it, like the original inception of the build, puts all the damage and support responsibility on the necromancer. Auth 00:21, 19 January 2007 (CST)

A variant for the SS
Someone posted the following on the talk page of the main page of the official wiki. It is an interesting idea. -- (talk) 05:14, 28 February 2007 (CST)
 * Seems like it pushes SV/AV onto the monk, which is fine, but should be noted. Denying squidies their energy/adrenaline is important to avoid energy-denial/dazed/interrupt. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 10:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Ok for a long time now people have been using SV & AV (Symathetic Visage & Ancient Visage) but this approach is extremely non practical. Before you yell, "What EVER!"... hear me out.

The best way to kill the smites is strickly by having them waste thier Smite Hexes before u ever cast SS (Spiteful Spirit). Then once they have used up thier smite hexes you cast SS onto one and place a cover hex... delaying the time in which SS is removed, thus increasing dmg that is done.

The three spells required for killing Smites effective with this method are: -- Suffering & Spiteful Spirit

The simplicty of this build helps ensure its effectiveness

Ok so now for the good stuff... how to use these two spells to quickly kill smites and why it works.

Suffering is a MASS AOE HEX spell... meaning that when u cast Suffering on 1 smite all the smites now have hexes. This action will make all the smites use smite hex. Since Smite hex has a 15 second recharge thie smites become extremely vulenarable to hexes. So.. after u cast suffering u wait a few seconds untill the majority have used smite hex then u target a smite that no longer has the hex of suffering on them anymore. You now cast SS on that target and since all of the smites have been used up thier smite hexes they can not remove it. In practical sense this would work just find... yet to insure that it works great you ALWAYS want to RECOVER SS with suffering. Doing this, not only puts a cover hex on the smite with SS but it also puts a hex on all the smites. This makes the chances of them removing the two hexes from smite that is carrying SS. This method works much better and faster than the method of echoing SV or AV and trying to drain their energy. Simply put: cast Suffering, wait a few seconds and fight a smite that has suffering removed, cast SS onto that smite, QUICKLY cover SS by casting Suffering onto same smite. After this point... it be wise to try to cast another SS

''' !!!!NECRO/MONK = BEST SETUP!!!! '''

Without the need for SV or SA the need to be necro/mes is no longer greatly neaded, and /monk is now a much better sub job. I know that u might be thinking..."WHAT ABOUT ARCANE ECHO?!" well before u reject this idea once again... hear me out.

THE BUILD: Awaken the Blood, Spiteful Spirit, Descrate Enchantments, Suffering, Life Siphone, Healing Breeze, Essence Bond, (rez sig or any resurection spell that raises victims to 50% hp or higher) -- they are 55 monks remember

Attributes-- 16 Curse (sup rune + head piece), 12 Blood (minor rune), 6 Healing

WHY?? Why should i equip Essence Bond?? Essence Bond --- Esence Bond gives u 1 energy everytime the persn you casted it on takes dmg. This means that if u cast in onto your 55 monk friend you are now getting MASS ENERGY! This enables you to use every spell you have w/o ever have to be concern if you will run out of energy!!

HEALING BREEZE -- Healing breeze is a pure survival spell. Many people say Healing breeze is not worth the energy and to be honest i agree (unless u a 55 monk). How ever since you used essence bond the 10 energy is not even close to ever leaving a dent in your energy. "Why do i need to be able to heal myself? I'm not the tank!" In the old days this would hold true... but since they changed the template on how aggro works, when ever more than 3 monsters are attacking your 55 monk they will run away.. yet when they do this they will come running off to you to inflict killer dmg. For Aaxta heealing breeze will never save u.. yet for smites this spell can work wonders. It will give u alot of life to escape as well as properly function in killing the majority of the smites.

Life Siphone -- With 12 in blood, this spell creates 3HP Degen for the enemy target and turns that into 3HP Regen for yourself. This spell stacked with healing breeze makes dealing with that 4th smite extremely easy!

Suffering -- Besides its EXTREME IMPORTANCE IN SMITE KILLING (STATED ABOVE!)This spell allows u to kill a smite with degen if you find yourself in the situation of there being 4-5 smites. When stacked with Life Siphone the enemy has -5 health degen which gives you the abilty to kill a 4th or 5th smite that has gone after you extremely easy!

Descrate Enchantments -- DO NOT USE ON SMITES (Reversal of Fortune will make this spell heal the smites!!!) This spell is mainly use to inflect dmg on all prey besides smites such as: NIGHTMARES!, Aaxta, Darkness Monsters, and Cold Fires

WHY YOU DO NO NEED "ARCANE ECHO" When your blood attribute is at 12 your Awaken the Blood last for 39 seconds, and with this spell your SS will be doing 41 dmg per hit. This is ALOT OF DMG, yet what is really good is that SS is only a 10 second recharge which means in 10 seconds you can have SS on two targets. This is plenty fast as well as lethal. You will almost NEVER need more than 2 SS as long as all targets are getting hit with the 41 dmg. Also removing Arcane Echo allows you to bring Healing Breeze which is a life saver when you have a group of 5 smites and 2 of them are gradually eating your life away while you kite them (hopefully you are degening one to death with Suffering & Life Siphone).