GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Missions

Section 0
I think most sections that we use under Explorable Areas apply to missions too: Should we add some or all of these to the mission template? --Tetris L 18:51, 5 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * How about a section "NPCs"?
 * How about a section "Mobs" or "Monsters"?
 * How about a section "Bosses"?
 * I'd rather rename the section "Elite Skill Captures" to "Bosses". The missions up to the Crystal Desert have lots of bosses, but none with elite skills. And we don't want to leave this section blank for these missions, do we?
 * I'd suggest to use the profession icons for the listing of bosses, like I have done in Divinity Coast (Mission). What do you think?
 * How about a section "Locations/Items/Objects of Interest"?


 * I agree on "Monsters" and "Bosses". But I don't think we need sections for NPCs or Stuff of Interest. Those topics should be covered sufficiently in the walkthrough. --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 19:46, 5 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * I like the icons, though it is not a priority for me. I think we are starting to OD on icons. :)
 * With regards to Sections. I disagree. A mission overview is a description of how to do the mission. It is not a desciption of the explorable area where the mission is done. Now, a mission area article could include those sections. But in 99% of the time, it's useless because the description of how to interact with them is in the overview.
 * For now, I suggest we use the "Notes" section in each overview to mention interesting info like the quest by Grun to his wife in Fort Ranik.
 * With regards to boss listing (vs elite) in missions, it maybe cool for completeness, but it is not that useful. Before the Crystal Desert, no one cares about bosses. And before Lion's Arch, no one has Capture Signets. --Karlos 20:39, 5 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Karlos, three things:
 * "OD" on icons? What do you mean with "OD". Please translate to plain English for a non-native speaker. :)
 * Are you suggesting to split the mission articles yet again, into an article with the mission overview and an article about the area that the mission takes place in? I think it is confusing enough that we have the separation into  (Mission) and  (Location). But (Location) is about the starting outpost, not the explorable area. Should we add?  (Area)? Please, no! This should remain in the mission overview.
 * I for one do care about bosses in missions before the Crystal Desert! Some of them offer some nice non-elite skills to capture that would otherwise not be available until you reach the skill trainers in the Southern Shiverpeaks. --Tetris L 21:10, 5 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Bump! Karlos? --Tetris L 17:48, 6 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * OD - Overdose (noun) - An excessive dose, especially of a narcotic. --Rainith 01:00, 7 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * In that case: Nah, you can never overdose on icons! They are simply the best way to display information. You get all the info at a glimpse, without having to read through any text. I'm all for using the profession icons anywhere where professions are shown in lists or tables. Much more than we currently do. --Tetris L 04:24, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * No, I was not suggesting that. I was saying that's how it would be done, if we were that desparate for the info, but as I said, there is hardly anything in an explorable mission area that won't be related to the mission. No God's statues, no NPC quest givers (except a few). Nothin that requires anything more than the Notes section.
 * Icons are cool, I am just saying we are starting to OD on those 6 profession icons, we are putting them everywhere. --Karlos 15:03, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * The profession icons make looking through a list which isn't sorted by profession much easier. It's simply the way the human brain works. 148.177.129.213 21:39, 10 Oct 2005 (EST)

I, um, agree that there should be a section on "Mobs", and that "Elite Skill Captures" should be replaced by "Bosses". I'm not sure if it's appropriate for me to edit the Project Page though. -PanSola 00:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Bump, my position on this issue remains the same. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:59, 23 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree with you. I think the mission pages should be split into two sections.  Top section containing the mission specific info, goals, walkthru, etc...  Second section something like a mini location entry, with mob info, npcs, etc...  --Rainith 20:07, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

Leads To..
An anonymous user edited the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission to point out that it leads to the Iron Mines. I think this is good useful info. I suggest we add a section at the bottom of each mission page that says something like:

Leads To: (Location name) For a diagram showing the flow from one mission to the next, click here. (and we link to Tetris L's diagram in Mission Overviews).

How is that? --Karlos 08:28, 17 October 2005 (EST)


 * While I'm at it, I might as well bump this old discussion item as well.
 * Currently the "final destination" is listed under "additional notes". Actually, it is almost always the only information found under that heading. I think we should make this a separate section named self-explanary ("Leads to" or "Destination upon Completion" or similar). --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]]  10:07, 1 June 2006 (CDT)


 * °BUMP° One more idea: What about listing the follow-up Primary Quest, like we do for quests? This could probably go into the same section as the "Destination upon completion". I'd go as far as suggesting "Follow-up" as the name for the whole section. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:21, 12 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Unless anybody objects by Monday next week I'll take it as an approval and will go for it, adding a "Follow-up" section to each mission article, with the follow-up location and primary quest. Veto coundown started. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:42, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Nobody seems to care. I'll go ahead. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:56, 3 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Make sure to add it to this S&F page too. :)  --Rainith 15:16, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

Please check what I've done to Minister Cho's Estate (Mission). This is one possible format, as a plain list. Personally I prefer table format, but it's a lot more code, and less newbie-friendly. -- 08:24, 4 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmmm, let's see.
 * I think Final mission location is misleading, it doesn't say to me that that is where you end up after you finish the mission. At a quick glance I would assume that that was the next mission.
 * I would personally prefer to just list the one next thing that you are supposed to do storyline wise, if that is a mission list that mission, if it is a quest, list the quest. Those missions/quests would then in their articles list the next thing that you have to do.  If the next storyline thing to do isn't a mission, don't list the next mission, just list the next storyline quest.
 * Here is how I would put it:
 * Upon completion of this mission the characters find themselves in XXX.
 * To continue the storyline see  quest/mission XXX 
 * --Rainith 11:15, 4 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Good points. I've simplified the formatting in Minister Cho's Estate (Mission). Have another look before I apply this new formatting to all other missions. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:04, 7 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I like it, simple, clear, to the point. I didn't mean you had to take my words exactly, but I won't argue against them.  ;)  --Rainith 11:13, 7 August 2006 (CDT)

Campaign Setting
Where would we fit the data describing which campaign a mission is located in? It seems silly to have a 'Campaign' top-level heading, since there would be a sentence fragment at most under it. Perhaps a line like... Name of Mission is a mission found in the Prophecies Campaign. ...as a sort of definition at the start of a mission article would suffice.

Factions Mission Rewards /Objectives
I really dislike the way the mission objectives and rewards are currently displayed in most Factions mission articles. See Vizunah Square for an example: -- 09:55, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
 * 1) The reward levels are named "objectives", for example "Master Objectives". But ingame, it's called "Master's Reward". We should use the ingame wording!
 * 2) The three Reward types are level 2 heading, just like the "Mission Objectives" level. Instead, this should be a tree, with a level 2 heading "Rewards" and the three levels as sub-headings.
 * 3) The Standard Reward is always 1000xp + 100g + 1 skill point. The Expert's Reward is always 1500xp + 150g + 1 skill point. The Master's Reward is always 2000xp + 200g + 1 skill point. Do we have to repeat that info in every mission article? If yes, we should put it in a template!


 * I've created a draft for a template:
 * Thoughts? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:15, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Thoughts? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:15, 1 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I like it, especially since it allows flexibility for anomolies like the eternal grove mission that isn't based on time. --Chrono traveller 10:57, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
 * I like it! I had been thinking of trying to create one myself for much the same reason; but had been intimidated as my skills are still pretty basic for this sort of thing.
 * But, before implementing, we should resolve the 'Move' tag that was placed on the template by PanSola. I would hate to apply this then have to change the template names shortly afterwards (luckilly, not that many, but still a step I would rather avoid). --- Barek (talk &bull; contribs) - 19:17, 9 June 2006 (CDT)
 * I haven't paid that much attention in game, but don't you get 1 skill point for each "reward level"? The way the table is now, it looks like you only get 1 point, even if you achieve the Master reward.
 * Beyond that, I like the table idea, and agree that the name of the template should be changed. --Rainith 20:02, 9 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The template name is a minor issue to me. Personaly I guess that it's ANet's plan to use the Factions reward scheme for future campaigns too, this is something that is to be confirmed, so for now we can add the "(Factions)" suffix to the template name. If we decide to change it later it's only 12 articles to fix the link. Not a big deal.
 * Unless somebody objects by next week Monday I'll feel free to rename the template and apply it to all Factions mission articles. Veto countdown started.
 * As for the rewards for the three levels stacking or not, that's something I've been wanting to clarify for a while. The next time I finish a mission I'll pay close attention, checking my XP, gold and skill point numbers right before and right after completion of the mission. According to the findings the template can be adapted or notes can be added. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:50, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * All 3 stack. 4500 XP, 450 gold and 3 skill points. --Karlos 14:19, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I changed the template accordingly. And I'll start to use it. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:03, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

Blah (Location) vs Blah (Mission)
That naming convention actually is rather awkward, because the Location is the actual place you enter the mission from, and the Mission itself is a location. I propose renaming the suffix to something else. Current brainstorm returns: (Mission outpost) vs (Mission area). -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 17:38, 10 June 2006 (CDT)
 * BTW, the in-game Blue-Box tips treats mission areas as also a subset of Explorable areas. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:39, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

bump. Any other ideas? or do ppl wish to argue in favor of the current naming scheme? -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 04:54, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The current scheme is well established in this wiki and I don't see any major problems with it. Sure the naming scheme can be optimized, but is it worth it to do a big crusade for some minor pollishing? "Don't fix it if it ain't broken!" Anyway ... if we decide to rename, then we must include the "Blah (Explorable Area)" articles added with the factions campaign in the picture. The explorable area that you may re-enter after completion of the mission is considerably different from the explorable area that you've been in during the mission.
 * If anything, I'd only rename the "Blah (Location)" articles to "Blah (Outpost)". I wouldn't touch the "Blah (Mission)" and "Blah (Explorable Area)" articles. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:29, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I still consider "(Mission)" to be unclear. When I think/hear "going to the blah blah mission", I assume it's the mission location.  I don't think the Explorables need to be touched, they are disambiguated in-game already so they are fine.  It is the outpost though, that give me all the mission breifing and such.  "Mission outpost" vs "Mission instance"? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 06:56, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm against the "Mission outpost" vs "Mission instance", overly wordy and not incredibly clear. Changing "Location" to "Outpost" would work for me, but I don't think that's what you're going for PanSola, you're saying that when you enter the outpost it says on the screen, "XXX (Mission)" so we should do it that way too, correct?  --Rainith 11:02, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I think "Location" and "Mission" are perfect. I'm probably biased though.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 12:38, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Um, cloase enough Rainith. I'm saying "Mission" (technically "Cooperative Mission", which is getting long already) encompasses both the outpost area and the fighting area.  So it wouldn't be fair/clear if only the fighting area gets to be designated as "(Mission)". -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 13:48, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I think each location on the world map deserves its own article. I think every mission (i.e. a specific series of tasks within an instance) deserves its own article. I don't think that the two articles should be merged. In my opinion The Great Northern Wall (Location) should have the same sort of information as Ascalon City (Post-Searing), they are, after all, both outposts.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:28, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * No one is talking about merging here... I'm talking about clearer / fairer disambiguation. Right now ("Mission" vs "Location") it's like having two people, one is disambiguated as "boy" the other as "human", when they are both humans, and one is a 6 yr old male and the other is a 18 yr old male. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:45, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I like it just fine. Bla (Mission) is the mission walkthrough and possible cap info. Blah (Location) is the outpost of the mission. We chose to have it this way. I don't think there is a "right way" and a "wrong way" but this is "the way" it is implemented. More technical wording does not mean clearer wording. Blah (Mission outpost) and Blah (Mission explorable) will only work in Prophecies, because in Cantha you have Blah (Mission Outpost), Blah (Mission Explorable) and Blah (Mission Explorable during the mission). I think ANet itself is following our naming convention by naming the mission explorable areas "Explorable" even though the mission explorable area DURING the mission is also explorable. When I want to tell someone to look for something inside a mission I say "Look in the mission" not "look in the mission explorable area during the mission." --Karlos 03:03, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I wouldn't want to name what is currently "(Mission)" as "(Mission explorable)" either, but I wonder do you think "(Mission instance)" might work or not? Also, my major beef with "(Location)" is because there are a number of missions that are named after a location, which happens to not be where the mission outpost is at.  For example, the "Thunderhead Keep" is the last siege area that players have to defend.  The article Thunderhead Keep (Location) is not about the actual Thunderhead Keep poi location.  I want to at least change "(Location)" into "(mission hub)" or "(mission outpost)" (right now I'm preferring the term hub). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:39, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Nope, that's not our fault, that's ArenaNet's fault. Thunderhead Keep (Location) should have a note stating that it's not the actual Thunderhead Keep and that the keep is at the very end of the mission. Same thing for the Frost Gate. Right now, when someone says "go to Frost Gate" they do not mean go the gate at the very end of the mission, they mean go to them mission outpost named "Frost Gate" which is actually Grooble's Gulch.
 * So, for the locations that are not really the locations, place a note at the bottom of the article. But we need to keep the places named what people call them. Simplify. Don't break dozens of articles. --Karlos 05:37, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree the "Simplify" part. And to me, simplification means naming the articles in less confusing ways, such as "Thunderhead Keep (mission hub)" or "Thunderhead Keep (mission outpost)" to reduce potential for confusion in the first place.  Calling that place "Thunderhead Keep (Location)" is what complicates things, and even if it's Anet's fault to begin with, they'll probably be repeating this fault in future campaigns too, whereas we on our end have the ability to make things less bad.  There are only about three dozon articles that will get renamed by this if we make adjustments now.  Besides, now that Factions is in, explorables are a type of location too, so using "(Location)" is really a bad idea to disambiguate it form other types of locations with the same name. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:01, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Would changing it from "xxx (Location)" to "xxx (Outpost)" make you feel better? :)  I personally haven't really been fond of any of the other naming schemes come up with in this discussion, but changing location to outpost would be ok with me.  As for your Thunderhead Keep thing, we already have precident for that with The Great Northern Wall (Building).  --Rainith 10:49, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

Maps
Not sure if this is the place to put it but... Having looked at such files as Image:Dunes of Despair.JPG I think we should have a drive on making a better description on the image file. The description is there for a reason. --Jamie  06:02, 20 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The newest version of the map is mine, but the description was not mine. I am going to do a nice map for al lof the Prophecies missions and I might do something for the descriptions at the same time. It depends on my feeling at that time. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 06:08, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

Overhaul
I plan to work through all the Factions missions to put in the new "Follow-up" section and to put in the rewards table. But looking at the current state of most Factions missions and comparing it against the S&F guide I see that they are not in line at all. The missions S&F guide obviously hasn't been written with Factions missions in mind, and IMO it lacks a few sections that have been more or less agreed to in this talk page, like a list of creatures and the follow-up.

Hence, may I propose a new, slightly different structure for mission articles:

Objectives
Mission description, copied verbatim from ingame
 * Objective 1
 * Objective 2
 * ADDED Objective 1.
 * BONUS Objective 1.

Rewards
List the criteria and the rewards for the different objectives. Preferrably make use of the Mission_rewards template like this:

Primary
A thorough description of the steps needed for completing the mission.

Bonus
OR === Master's === Tips and tactics for completing the mission at max reward level, in order to collect a point for the "Protector" title.

NPCs
A list of NPCs that can be found in the mission:
 * 20 Master Togo
 * 20 Headmaster Vhang
 * 20 Zunraa
 * etc.

Monsters
A list of regular foes (not bosses) that will be encountered in the mission:
 * Afflicted:
 * 14 Afflicted Warrior
 * 14 Afflicted Ranger
 * etc.

Bosses (Elite Skill Captures)
A list of possible bosses and elite skills that can be captured in this mission.
 * 20 The Afflicted Maaka (Enraged Smash)
 * etc.

Follow-up
List the location that players end up in after completing the mission and how to proceed (usually with a Primary Quest):
 * Upon completion of the mission players will find themselves in: Ran Musu Gardens
 * To continue the storyline, take on the following Primary Quest: Warning the Tengu

Objectives
Mission description, copied verbatim from ingame
 * Objective 1
 * Objective 2
 * ADDED Objective 1.
 * BONUS Objective 1.

Rewards
(IF FACTIONS) List the criteria and the rewards for the different objectives. Preferrably make use of the Mission_rewards template like this:

Primary
A thorough description of the steps needed for completing the mission.

Bonus
OR === Master's === Tips and tactics for completing the mission at max reward level, in order to collect a point for the "Protector" title.

NPCs
A list of NPCs that can be found in the mission:
 * 20 Master Togo
 * 20 Headmaster Vhang
 * 20 Zunraa
 * etc.

Monsters
A list of regular foes (not bosses) that will be encountered in the mission:
 * Afflicted:
 * 14 Afflicted Warrior
 * 14 Afflicted Ranger
 * etc.

Bosses (Elite Skill Captures)
A list of possible bosses and elite skills that can be captured in this mission.
 * 20 The Afflicted Maaka (Enraged Smash)
 * etc.

Follow-up
List the location that players end up in after completing the mission and how to proceed (usually with a Primary Quest):
 * Upon completion of the mission players will find themselves in: Ran Musu Gardens
 * To continue the storyline, take on the following Primary Quest: Warning the Tengu

Objectives

 * Objective 1
 * Objective 2
 * ADDED Objective 1.
 * BONUS Objective 1.

Bonus
OR ===Master's===

NPCs

 * Humans
 * 18 Headmaster Vhang
 * 18 Hero
 * 20 Cynn
 * 20 Master Togo
 * Kirins:
 * 20 Zunraa
 * etc...

Monsters

 * Afflicted
 * 14,15 Afflicted Warrior
 * 14 Afflicted Ranger
 * etc...

Bosses ((elite) skill captures)

 * Afflicted
 * 20 The Afflicted Maaka &rarr; (Enraged Smash)
 * etc...

Dialogues
See NPC name for mission debriefing.

Cutscene 1
etc...

Follow-up

 * Upon completion of the mission players will find themselves in: Ran Musu Gardens
 * To continue the storyline, take on the following Primary Quest: Warning the Tengu

Hard mode
I propose that we split the monsters and bosses sections into normal mode and hard mode subsections, and that we add hard mode subsections for the primary and bonus / master's sections. -- Gordon Ecker 23:05, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea, splitting the information in the article into two subsections, normal and hard mode, is better than splitting the article into two separate pages. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:08, 17 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I suggest we wait and see what new catergorys and species of foes and released with hard mode before the spilt it taken. Probaly better to view hard mode first hand rather than relie on first impressions. Solus  [[Image:DiscipleSymbol2.jpg|19px]] 06:12, 17 April 2007 (CDT)