User talk:NieA7/Build:Mo/any Holy Haste LoD Healer

History

 * (cur) (last) 18:22, 18 April 2007 212.112.35.243 (Talk) (Works with Humans. Works with Heroes.)
 * (cur) (last) 03:11, 11 March 2007 Benoit flageol (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 11:55, 23 February 2007 Paulatpingu (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 06:22, 31 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (Build talk:Mo/any Hasty Deliverance Healer moved to Build talk:Mo/any Holy Haste LoD Healer: hasty =P)
 * (cur) (last) 23:03, 29 January 2007 Jawn Sno (Talk | contribs) m (?Discussion)
 * (cur) (last) 17:57, 25 January 2007 UnexistNL (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 17:57, 25 January 2007 UnexistNL (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 17:28, 25 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 17:27, 25 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (?Optionals)
 * (cur) (last) 17:27, 25 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (?Optionals)
 * (cur) (last) 23:09, 24 January 2007 8765 (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 11:46, 23 January 2007 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Whoops)
 * (cur) (last) 11:46, 23 January 2007 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (+rate)
 * (cur) (last) 10:26, 22 January 2007 Shai Meliamne (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 05:40, 21 January 2007 Wanderer Mephisto (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 03:42, 21 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 22:05, 18 January 2007 Lania Elderfire (Talk | contribs) m (?Discussion)
 * (cur) (last) 19:19, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 17:57, 18 January 2007 Lania Elderfire (Talk | contribs) (?Discussion)
 * (cur) (last) 17:48, 18 January 2007 Lania Elderfire (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 14:30, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 14:29, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 14:26, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m (grammar, removed rant)
 * (cur) (last) 14:25, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 14:23, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 14:21, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 13:47, 18 January 2007 Lania Elderfire (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 13:42, 18 January 2007 Lania Elderfire (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 13:37, 18 January 2007 132.203.83.38 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 13:20, 18 January 2007 Shai Meliamne (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 12:43, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 12:42, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 12:41, 18 January 2007 NightAngel (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 10:41, 18 January 2007 Shai Meliamne (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 10:12, 18 January 2007 Skuld (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 10:08, 18 January 2007 Shai Meliamne (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 03:45, 18 January 2007 Hyrim (Talk | contribs)

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Please do not vote on a build until you have actually tested it.''

Favored:
 * 1) Works at abaddon's gate for sure. Personally I like HBoon+HP over HHaste+LoD; still good though. --8765 18:09, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) Put in E-management suggestion please. :) &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:28, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * 3) I like it - UnexistNL
 * 4) Fine by me - I've used similar to this in PvE across Elona and Cantha and had no problems with it at all. I use Glpyh of Lesser Energy for energy management as I'm Mo/E, but as everything is cheap, energy isn't usually a massive concern. LoD is great energy management as it's 10 energy cheaper than Heal Party for a roughly similar effect. Paulatpingu 06:55, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 5) Nice for PvE. --Benoit flageol 22:11, 10 March 2007 (CST)

Unfavored:
 * 1) (your vote here)

Discussion
Restore Condition??? A protection prayers elite on a heal monk? and also hex/condition removal should probably be on the bar rather than in optional/variants. --Hyrim 22:45, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Sorry guess, I was a bit hasty submitting the build, meant mend condition instead of restore condition...sorry, will change it if possible/nescessary

Shield of Absorption is too good, you can do 11 divine, 11 heal, 6 prot and still have a decent SoA. For this reason I will never use holy haste &mdash; Skuld 05:12, 18 January 2007 (CST)

SoA is a great skill indeed. In some cases it may be worth it, but also in that case Holy Haste is gone and the advantage of quick heals is gone. Therefor they can't be used together as u said. At 6 prot Soa is 5 seconds (or 6 with +20% enchants) with only one enemy hitting the target this would aproximately be 5+10+15+20+25(+30) (5-6 hits in 5-6 seconds might be to much, but is doable imo) 75(+30) damage reduction, with a second enemy this would indeed be more than a total reduction of 75 damage and therefor it would be a great skill to cast on a tank who can keep aggro. So I think SoA is only worth it if target is being fully attacked by more than one fast attacker (like an assassin or warrior) else this condition could be two, three or maybe even more attackers before SoA's usefullness outruns the effect of a single heal (which is of course 1/2 second casting time and heals for ~80) Still this build is meant for PvE and my experiences are that aggro is usually not controlled or quickly broken, I often see that multiple targets are being attacked and that's where the quick heals and especially the quick LoD come in. Also (don't know if I may say that here) I usually bring a second monk with prot skills such as SoA and two casts of SoA on one target probably do more harm than good (as damage reduction is reset) Hope this story is not to long...

I have the same idea saved on my computer, also called "hasty deliverance". Must not be a very original name :) You need to flesh it out, pick better skills, etc. I don't think branching into prot and taking out holy haste is worth it. Yes, there is something called a protection monk, who can do it better. It's unfinished work, imho, and can't be favored until it's a more complete. My first suggestion? Ethereal Light. Holy Haste helps to avoid having it interrupted, and it's much better than the crappy orison. Your resurrection spell should be in healing (restore life comes to mind) to take advantage of the haste as well. NightAngel 07:41, 18 January 2007 (CST)

I personally prefer Ressurection Chant over Restore Life because of the small range, which is usefull at some times. Tho I did note "generic resurrect" with below that it should be a ress from the healing tree, it might be better to put in ress chant and restore life in variants. As for Ethereal Light, I think it should be added into variants or into the build and orison into variants. Ethereal Light is a great healing spell, healing some more than that crappy Orison, tho a half second spell is hard to be interrupted it is still possible and if you would come under melee pressure self healing will be very hard, even with Holy Haste. As I'm not very familiar with the way people work around here, I'm wondering if it's appreciated to change the build while it's in the testing phase.


 * Why does this build even exist? It's like any other generic Healing Prayers build. There's nothing special in it at all. 132.203.83.38 08:37, 18 January 2007 (CST)

About the only time you'd want to use holy haste with LoD is in the abbadon's gate mission where you get dazed a lot, making it possible to cast LoD in 1 second which cuts the chance of it getting interrupted. Other than that I think it is just basically a "fun" build but not effective for the rest of PvE. I prefer to use healer's boon with glyph of lesser energy and cast spells like heal party, and aegis... and w/o glyph I just cast ethereal, SoA, etc. Because of the healing bonus I think HB is better than holy haste, and there is no reason to use LoD with holy haste most of the time. --Lania Elderfire 08:42, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * Er, you can't really compare HB with haste, Lania. One is an elite!?! What you CAN compare is LoD versus Healer's boon. At least for heroes, healer's boon is not a very hot idea, they overheal and run out of energy pretty quickly. Holy Haste is a very nice skill for them. Now, back to humans - And frankly, if you ARE using light of deliverance as your elite, which is pretty good, why not go with haste? you can heal party all the time, and if someone needs direct healing, it is much faster. Leave all the enchantments to the protection monk. Why try to do everything on the same character, I don't get it! I'd never run a monk with heal party AND aegis unless it's a pretty specialized environment, such as Urgoz, Deep or whatever. For general-purpose PvE, I like my healers specialized, thank you very much :) Anyway, I'm a big fan of holy haste. Of course this build is barely a stub, so not worth fighting for. Holy Haste still rocks. Ps: I barely use monks at all these days, anyway. Paragons Ftw. :) NightAngel 09:21, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * I guess I'm not as a big of a fan of Holy Haste as you are :-). Persoanlly I don't think you can have too much SoA or protective enchantments... and if you can do both, why not?  But that's just kinda my preferred way of monking... which is why I love ZB because it allows prot monks to heal efficiently.  Of course I don't take aegis everywhere I go, only on the high level areas.  Also for PvE, I don't see the big advantage of being able to fast cast healing spells like LoD... I mean it makes sence to use it with ethereal light... but ya know :-).... I do like both LoD and HB but both has different uses in diffferent areas... But what I do like to do sometimes is put healers boon an a hero monk, disable it and arcane mimicry the elite.  That way you can use HB with LoD.  And since HB last so long in areas with no enchantment removal it's fun to do. --Lania Elderfire 12:57, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Healer boon AND LoD. Yup. sounds like an idea. In fact, mimicring HB and using any healing elite could be a good idea. I'll try it next time I play my monk. Problem is, that means you have 2 healing monks. Lots of redundant spells and overhealing (a problem mitigated if you stick to party heals and leave targeted heals to your super-reflexes hero). NightAngel 14:19, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * I didn't say there weren't problems with doing it, it's just a fun thing to do that ends up in team redundancies. But yeah it sure is fun :-)--Lania Elderfire 17:05, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Optionals
Optional|Optional is just bad on a healing build. Put something in there, damnit! &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:42, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I've put in 2 skills, condition removal through Dismiss Condition and Healing Seed, the author may change them if they don't find the skills useful. Wanderer Mephisto 00:40, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Changed it a bit, now it has no optional slots (done by somebody else tho) but more variants. Healing Seed is not an option as this would remove Holy Haste which will hurt the build. Added a hex and a condition removal, but I think depending on the area (if you know what will come) and depending on what other team mates bring these can be switched out for additional healing skills or perhaps energy management. However I can't find a good way of formulating this. I would think of going Mo/Me with a somewhat lower divine favor and some inspiration magic to improve energy management, tho the rules state that this would make it a whole different build and as I think this energy management isn't really nescesary I would keep the build like this but what do you think? I also added Inspired Hex as a hex removal but I don't know if I'm allowed to do so as this is a Mo/any build
 * Healing Seed does work. Simply cast it on the tank before you cast Holy Haste. =) &mdash;  Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:27, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Works with Humans. Works with Heroes.
Just thought I'd give y'all my own experience of this build. I'm abusing this. All my Dunkoro's use a variant of this, and with Tahlkora it makes a great team. Maybe not the best but hey I'm not a super-mega-pro like Rapta or Skuld. My PvE monk use this too, but even more varianted. Well, to the builds (and mind my limited knowledge of GWW):

Dunkoro's build, when coupled with a full prot monk that can do prot so much better than a hybrid: Light of Deliverance, Ethereal Light, Dwayna's Kiss, Healing Touch, Signet of Rejuvenation, Remove Hex, Holy Haste, Resurrection Chant.

My PvE monks build, also coupled with full prot that can do it much better than a hybrid: Healing Touch, Ethereal Light, Word of Healing, Dwayna's Kiss, Signet of Rejuvenation, Heal Party, Holy Haste, Renew Life.

Playing with my own monk, I prefer quick spike heals and HP above LoD, but heroes don't know how to use HP and therefore I use LoD (to great success) on them. The P/W Party Support hero build for Morgahn, and a prot build for Tahlkora, coupled with this makes for a great set of healers. Even though you can't use any other heroes, you won't have to take Alesia or any other henchmen (which imo are worse). Sorry for making it so long... Dunno if it's even relevant...