GuildWiki talk:Administrators

I haven't seen william in quite a while )-: -SolaPan 08:08, 20 March 2006 (CST)
 * Heh, I was thinking the same thing, so I moved him to inactive. --Rainith 08:16, 20 March 2006 (CST)
 * But apparently LordBiro lives on! &mdash;Tanaric 09:11, 22 March 2006 (CST)
 * Not if I can help it.. ]=) 02:12, 1 April 2006 (CST)
 * I only just found this... what do you mean by that Skuld? :P  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 07:51, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Nothing.. nothing *sharpens daggers* &mdash; Skuld  08:02, 18 June 2006 (CDT)

Request for demotion of User:Karlos
I know this will fall on deaf ears, and Karlos will surely revert this and ban me the second he sees it, but he does not deserve to be a sysop on this wiki any longer. He has wantonly violated several key policies of the wiki today, not the least of which violations is abusing his sysop powers to exert editorial control over another user's pages and impose week-long blocks on said user.

It is completely foolish of me to even suggest this demotion because the wiki has no oversight policies and no means of appeal for administrative action. However, I am making it so there is some record, however fleeting, of opposition to Karlos' actions.

Because I am confident nothing will come of this request, I have requested all the evidence---my user pages---to be erased. I am sure none of my requests for deletion will be honored. I am further sure that, far from demotion, the wiki will circle their wagons around Karlos and will do whatever is necessary to make Karlos' actions retroactively justified and me out to be the sole guilty party. I understand the nature of communities well enough to see the utter futility in my bringing this up here and now. Therefore, this request for demotion is a mere formality.

I will not read or comment on the wiki after this comment. I do not wish the wiki well. I wish it the worst.

-- DK 03:54, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Lol. No need to comment, but I still will. There is NO point in the recent disputes which have caused so many users to leave the wiki. I find the fighting here stupid (and funny if it wouldn't have such results), but I relly can't do anything about it. I'm not sure what you think that was wrong use of admin powers by Karlos, but I myself don't like it that you delete individual comments on your user page from other people. Removing negative feedback isn't a way to work in a wiki. You should answer and discuss, not just delete, delete and then finally place a delete tag so that your history of negative feedback will vanish. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:05, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Fall on your sword again Stabber/Deldda Kcarc, see if it works this time. --Rainith 04:13, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Wha? Deldda is Stabber? This is confusing, i'm going to stamp on some chipmonks -_- &mdash; Skuld  04:22, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Confused? I wasn't as soon as I saw Stabber upload Image:Black Moa Availability.jpg and then upload it again almost right afterwards.  I went to see if the first image needed deleting for some reason, but after I saw it, I decided not to wipe it out.  It actually made me laugh.  Then I started looking thru some of DK's old edits and noticed a lot of similarities, including the ones done today (FSK skill icon uploads, that were altered exactly the same way Stabber's were).  Add in the Superman/Clark Kent action and it makes sense.  --Rainith 05:05, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hah! Extremely amusing! He's referring to this. Hee hee. :) I actually went with him (I assume it's safe to say him now) to FoW and even in a group in Cantha in some mission (I think beating Shiro). So, FG was right about (some of) the sockpuppets theory. Wow. --Karlos 05:13, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't think you should be rubbing your hands with too much glee. I don't feel as though you should be off the hook yet. Like PanSola (see below), I also disagree with your actions during the "DK incident". You seem to think that your edits have some "administrator power" behind them when they're basically just normal edits anyone else would do except the person who's doing them happens to be an admin. --Xasxas256 05:27, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * No glee, sir. Sheer amusement. I find the whole saga captivating at this moment. And I responded below. --Karlos 05:33, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Not going to comment on this request itself, but I do disagree with Karlos' actions pretty much completely during the relavent dispute (including the bans and the reverts) - 04:23, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
 * See my thoughts on Karlos' actions at User_talk:Karlos. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:31, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I will take this request seriously, even if Crack Addled does not. Here is my reasoning:
 * I believe that significant discussions of a user's contributions should be maintained. If a user does not like the "bad rap" on his talk page, then the content should be moved elsewhere. But to wipe it from existence is to cheat the community. I know it's in the history books, but that means it's not "searchable" i.e. findable.
 * I was wrong to place the saved copy in his user space. I was thinking it would be an easy place to find it, but of course if he never wanted it in his talk page to begin with, he won't like it in his user space either. I took that part out of the equation pretty quickly and moved the talk to non-user space.
 * I did not ban Crack Addled because I was trying to force some page on his user space. In fact, I honored his right to place a delete tag on it. I banned him for a couple of hours because he was butting heads with an admin over administrative policies. Now, I could have just moved it out of his user space and let it rest, but, like I said to PanSola, the precedent of Rving an admin on an administrative edit and ignoring his instructions isa VERY bad precedent.
 * I agree with Gem that deleting criticism from one's talk page is lame. We should perhaps consider keeping track of this? The reason I wanted to archive Crack Addled's talk is because he has a history with the wiki and I wanted there to be a continuation of that history. I did not want that history to be subject to whether Karlos is till around, or whether Pansola still remembers which talk page that discussion was wiped from.
 * I believe Crack's further actions and words speak for themselves. Overall, he could have went to the talk page of that article and said: "Look, this might belong in the wiki, but it sure as heck does not belong in my user space, if I don't want it." And he would have won that argument by a landslide. He chose the path of "It's me or you" and "let's make it personal baby." I would expect any user in this wiki when told by an admin not to change a page (for administrative purposes, not squabble over content) to respect that request. Be that user someone I like, like Gem, or an anonymous guy.
 * --Karlos 04:52, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The next comment was moved from User talk:Karlos. The comment and its responses are moved back there.  They were not meant to relate to teh request on demotion, only on the sepecific issue of administrative edits that was originally raised in the User talk page.


 * Holy sh*t. I leave for an extended weekend just to find this wiki community turned into one big clusterf*ck when I return. :eek:
 * I have only a few things to say about this whole drama, because of real life I have little time for the wiki this week:
 * Changing names, hiding behind fake / imposter names ("sockpuppet" / "smurf") or hiding behind an anonymous IP is poor. Repeatedly "leaving" an online community (or threatening to do so) and returning shortly after (under the same or a different user name) is poor. To believe that by changing your nickname you can clear your record, avoid having to stand by your words, avoid being accounted for what you did, avoid having to take responsibility, is piss poor. If you're doing it, do yourself a favor and stop it. Grow a backbone. Grow some guts. Grow some balls (if you're a man, that is ;)). At the end of the day you'll feel much better. Having said that, I'll admit I'm guilty of fakenickin' myself. Pssst .... don't tell anybody. I promise, I won't do it again. ;) Two times during the 10 years of my "online life", I have used an alternative nick to keep contributing to an online community while I was officially "on leave". One of that is Fisherman's Friend. Note the image mouse-over, and note who added it. Also, feel free to check FF's user contributions. He didn't strirr any trouble and didn't participate in any disputes at all. No harm done, I hope.
 * For the record: I'm not saying anybody did or did not fakenick. Frankly, I don't know what to believe, and I'm not willing to waste time and energy with an in-depth investigation. I have more important things to do right now, both in real life and in this wiki. I don't give a rat's ass if Stabber, Deldda, Seventy.twenty, Karlos, F_G, Aerosmith, Tetris L, Fisherman's Friend, whoever, ... are the same person. I'll treat them all as individuals for now and judge each of them by his individually deeds. And I have to say that as far as I remember none of them did any major harm to the editorial content of this wiki. Quite the opposite. I remember most of them as technically skilled, valuable contributors, making mostly reasonable and well-founded edits. Their behaviour an talk pages is a different matter, but that is secondary to me. They may share a strange tendency to get into fights on talk pages with a bit of a holier than thou attitude, and to leave the wiki as a martyr in drama, but that may be coincedence. And even if these are all fakenicks of the same person: Fakenickin' may be poor, and a sign of weakness, but IMO is no banable offense as such. Only if the multiple nicks are abused to rig votes or discussions
 * As for Karlos' role on the matter, this may surprise some around here after my own clashes with him, but I'll gladly vouch for him. Yes, he isn't impeccable, but who is? I still consider him as one of the most upright people around here. I believe that what he does is in good faith and for the greater good of the wiki. There are very few people on this wiki that I trust more when it comes to certain things. I believe that he strives hard to meet his own high standards of neutrality and objectivity. If there is anything that you might accuse him of it's that he is sometimes overzealous watching over these rules and that sometimes he fails to see that we're not living in an ideal world, and that all humans (including himself) make errors. Karlos, this wasn't meant to be patronizing or to belittle you. Please don't take it as such!
 * In any case banning nicknames or IPs won't solve the problem. Most of the people involved here are technically skilled enough to know how to bypass an IP bans anyway. We'll have to work this out in discussion.
 * Note: I didn't have time to hone this post word by word. It was written in a rush, so please don't take offense of single sentences or words. I hope you see my overall intentions behind it. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:23, 19 June 2006 (CDT)