User talk:Foo/archive 4

For older discussion archives: archive 1, 2, 3

Non-trivia
Please stop adding ridiculous trivia sections. Not everything is an allusion to something, and many things you have recently added trivia notes to are just standard English phrases and idioms. -Ellisthion 02:54, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'm glad someone noticed, and I agree, but I also blive that "*probably*" is not enough, and the notes for "brood wars" and "matirial girl" and such should be removed. only elaborate quotes like the ghost busters' and the Ron Burgundy's ones should qualify. an allusion should explain why something is at it is in game. a quest which has the same name as a song or a movie just does not cut it. until there will be a policy regarding trivia notes, I might add more of them when I see it fit. Foo 03:17, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * No, there's a huge difference between "brood wars"/"material girl" and say "open season" or "one good turn deserves another." The latter two are English phrases that certainly were not spawned by the movies you listed.  The song did start usage of the phrase "material girl."  The connection is so well established that it will always come to mind.  For "brood wars," as Ellisthion said, given that this is the right audience for such a reference (and that the quest isn't about broods warring), I'd say it's implausible that it's not a reference to Starcraft.
 * As for the other things on your list below, I'd believe the references for Isabaeux and Sogolon. The aegis note is definitely correct as it's the origin of the word.  Whether you it should be in the article or not is different.  Everything on the shouts page is pretty obvious to me.  The others can go.  (Also, uh... "for great justice" is an AYB reference; Zero Wing is the name of the game.  It's not like "for great justice" is natural English.)
 * I'll also direct you to w:WP:POINT even though we're not Wikipedia. --Fyren 03:52, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * For every full name you got a movie with two characters of the first name and the second name. every two words can be linked to something, and for someone, will make a connection. I love "Kindred the Family Soul", so when I saw the "Family Soul" quest I knew right away it was a reference. everyone can claim that for everything.


 * To focus on the point, what real value is in all those guesses and links? If a player doesn't look at something (ie, the max titles title), and wonders why is it as it is, there is no need for a trivia note. Foo 04:10, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * References and trivia shouldn't be/aren't about randomly matching things but matching them where it's likely. Isabeaux and Navarre aren't exactly common names.  "Brood wars" and "material girl" just aren't going to occur much, if at all, independent of the game and song.  (I'd argue it's almost impossible for "material girl" to occur to a native English speaker without knowing about the song).  I highly doubt they came up with Sogolon at random with no one involved knowing anything.  And the entire point of the wiki is to give people they information they don't have.  --Fyren 06:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * If "Material girl" is so obvious, what reason is there to make a note of it? Foo 09:11, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Lets add here a list of faint trivia notes:
 * Brood Wars
 * Material Girl
 * Isabaeux Navarre
 * Corwin Luceinne
 * Sogolon the Protector
 * Conjuring Staff
 * Panthar The Deceiver
 * Aegis

And a list of Trivia notes and subject that makes real sense: (usually with enough repetition to support themselves)
 * Firefly references.
 * AYB references.
 * Maxed titles rank

And ones which can truly be debated:
 * "For Great Justice!"
 * Shout, some are ok, most belong to the first list.

(amount checked: ~5%)


 * Brood Wars: Not a common phrase, very specific usage.
 * Material Girl: A phrase associated with just a single song.
 * The names: big *maybe* category: I'd say yes, because when you have both the first and the last names as separate references to the same thing, it makes it hard to ignore.
 * Sogolon: Not so much a trivia or allusion, so much as an actual historical guy with the name. It's inspiration, not trivia.
 * Conjuring Staff, Panthar The Deceiver: Really stretching these ones, there is nothing to actually suggest any link with, well, anything.
 * Aegis: This is one of these silly ones, like Moebius Strike (which I changed long ago), where people are confusing allusions ('this skill may refer to') with 'this is what this is'. "This skill may be named for the shield of Zeus": this is silly. It is quite clear that this skill IS named for Aegis in all its meanings. It's not an allusion or trivia, it just is the thing itself. It's like saying that a Shield is a reference to how ancient warriors used huge sheets of metal and wood to defend themselves.


 * But the real thing is, is saying something like One Good Turn Deserves Another is an allusion is silly, when the thing you're 'alluding' to is merely something whose name, like the quest, is simply a standard English phrase.
 * -Ellisthion 04:06, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * ...Just like Material Girl. I'm sure One Good Turn Deserves Another emerged in a specific time point. 'Material girl' is just an english phrase, and unless the npc looks like maddona, I see no reason to value it at all. (I'm going out). Foo 04:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * No, not like material girl. Without the song the phrase essentially wouldn't exist any more than "material banana" does.  Without the song, it's incredibly unlikely they still would have named this the same, even with it being about the daughter of a material trader.  --Fyren 06:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'm with Fyren on this one. Both about what counts as trivia and about WP:POINT. Instead of adding a bunch of worthless crap, why didn't you go and remove the stuff you thought was pointless? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 06:40, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've added what you call "worthless crap", for the same reason I've almost stopped reverting bad anon edits. there are policies to be made, and I'm not gonna revert stuff forever, just for more anon users to come again and add their favorite songs, games and movies as references. Foo 09:11, 4 December 2006 (CST)