GuildWiki:Request assistance

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ This article is a central point where administrators can field questions by users. This does not mean only administrators can answer questions posted here&mdash;any user that feels they can help should chime in!

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Run scamming
another player took 2 k from me for a run. and then put me on ignore. what can i do?---97.81.132.232 16:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a lot. You can try and report them (I don't remember where), but it probably won't help. About all you can do is not pay upfront the next time.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  17:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support is your best option, is my guess. They can't get your gold back generally, and they might not even do anything to the other player, but it's the most you can do. And yes, never take a run from anyone who asks for the gold up-front. It's not uncommon to see "pay half at the halfway point" for runs with halfway points, such as the Droks run. But anyone who wants the gold before he even starts is not only in prime position to just leave you hanging, but if he fails to run you, he might not pay you back; or even if he gets disconnected by mistake, you might not be able to find him again. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  05:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2
How would one be able to bata test GW2? -GW megafan
 * Wait until Anet announces a gw2 beta, which will (hopefully) be next year. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 23:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

ok tyvm
 * Unless anet does private invite, when the beta is opened up, GuildWiki will have a notice Random Time  11:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * They said there would certainly be an Open Beta, so just have patience <3 --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

now would it be announced on GW-wiki or in-game GW?
 * It'll probably hit the wikis,, and maybe an ingame announcement at about the same time.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  22:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

ok cool ^_^


 * It may be worthwhile to note that any announcement (official or unofficial) that
 * exhorts you to send an email to an address not at guildwars.com, guildwars2.com, or arenanet.com or
 * requires your account password (the real Arenanet have your password) or
 * cannot be confirmed by looking it up (possibly via a google search) on one of the above sites
 * is certainly fake. --◄mendel► 09:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok cool TYVM!

soo........ any update on GW2?
 * Unless it is listed in the GuildWars.com news, Game updates, or Guild Wars login announcements, no. You'd probably want to check Guild Wars 2 Wiki anyway, as they would probably have any updates before us - after all, GuildWiki is primarily dedicated to GW1. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Another trick is to go to Guild Wars 2 and click "watch" at the top of the page. If you use your Special:Watchlist when you're visiting GuildWiki (the link is at the top of the page as well), you'll automatically see any changes to that page, which is the logical place for new stuff about GW2 to show up on. --◄mendel► 23:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

alright cool, thank you

Getting training for extra secondary professions
I have a factions character that is Weh No Su (can change secondary professions) and I've gone and purchased all the professions for this character. Is there any way I can get training for these secondary professions that I add? 72.81.212.77 12:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No. When you change your secondary profession, you just get some basic skills, and that's it. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Aren't the training camp in Churrhir Fields and the Shing Jea headmaster quests still available? If not, tough luck: you should've learned these skills earlier, now you have to pay for them. :-P --◄mendel► 12:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The skill quests after Lion's Arch in Prophecies will be available for that character, you can take him/her over to Tyria and work through them. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * iirc, pretty much every skill quest in Prophecies is exclusive to Prophecies characters. You'll simply need to buy some skills for the other professions you've got.
 * You shouldn't need training at this point in the game; you already know how to use your character, one assumes. A quick note, if you're using more skills from your secondary profession then from your primary profession, then chances are you'd be better off with a new character in that profession. There are minor exceptions, of course, but generally speaking, stick with your primary profession's strengths, and just use a few skills from your secondary as support stuff. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  17:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks at the Skill Quests page, Jio. Skill quests from Kryta, Kaineng, and Vabbi on up are all available to any character from any campaign, so any skills those offer can be used to get secondary profession skills.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  22:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, so there really aren't any skills quests in Factions or Nightfall. But Prophesies after Kryta are still open.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  22:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Printing pages from GuildWiki
How can I print a page from GuildWiki without those ads over the text? Thanks for the help!

Sorry for the double post!
 * NP - i'll get rid of it, in the sidebar there should be a toolbox - and then it should say printable version - try that, if not you might have to block the ads Random Time  09:20, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * On Monaco, I can't find the link. And even if it's there, the "Wikia Spotlight" images collect in the upper left corner on the printable version with Monaco on FF3. This is a bug, thanks for notfying us, we'll pass it on to wikia.
 * What works is to open your wiki preferences (a link to that is hidden in the dropdown in the upper right corner of the page), select the "skins" tab, and set your preferred skin temporarily (or permanently, like I do) to "Monobook". You will then find a "printable version" link at the bottom of the sidebar, and this will only create a thin ad bar at both the top and the bottom of the page. (The Monaco version, if it worked, would have no ads.)
 * Another way to achieve this without changing your skin preference (maybe to print just a single page) is to append  to the URL of the page you want to print, click here for an example. There are even other ways to get at the page content if you are technically minded, more on forum:coding. --◄mendel► 10:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

The ads over the text should be gone now, whichever way you choose to print. If not, please keep reporting the problem. --◄mendel► 22:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

HELP!!!
I logged on a few days ago and all my ectos, rubies,money, black and white dyes, and good weapons were gone. in total about a worth of 400k!! Someone must have stolen them I emailed the gw support team and told them about this and i wanted to know if they could do anything about it is there a way that they can find out who stole my stuff or possibly give me my stuff back?

Your help is appreciated
 * Did you give out your password to ANYONE, at ANY time? If you can prove you were hacked they MAY be able to get your stuff back. [[Image:Bunneh.jpg]] ~Bunny  00:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

no i did not i dont know how it happened i did not download anything that may have stolen my data either
 * Sorry, but you getting your stuff back is highly unlikely. The hacker might get caught however. You should provide support with as much information as you can (times, dates, lists of things lost etc.) As far as why they got to you, it may be because you use a week password, or make other accounts with the same password, give out your password, have a keyloger on you computer... quite a lot of possibilities. Sorry to hear you lost a lot, though you could lose a lot more then just 400k. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 02:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Changing your current password would be a good idea, seeing as if you were hacked, they would still have your password. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Page assistance
Im a little confused as to why half the images on this page of mine arent showing up and showing as just "no image for this skill"? Is it just me or is it a preferances problem? I know the linking is correct. Kamiawolf 04:58, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a problem with pages that have too many skillbars on them. You overload the #ifexist calls limit, so even though the linking is correct, the wiki shows an error. One of my pages has the same problem. There's no real solution at the moment other than to use less skillbars or split the page into more than one page... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ... or to fix the Skillbar template to use Skill box Get Image? --◄mendel► 06:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For now, works (at least for me. Reminded me I need to update that page btw.) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 12:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Each skill only uses 1 if-exist call, and you have a lot of double skills in there, so that might be why you didn't exceed the limit yet. I don't know crap about the templates, let alone if Mini skill bar uses if-exist calls, but oh well. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Mini skill bar does not use ifexist, it doesn't care if you accidentally create image redlinks. It probably should care, but as long as people use it responsibly, that shouldn't be an issue.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You can see the image redlinks in Preview. We don't protect people against accidentally creating text redlinks, do we? --◄mendel► 15:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Not yet. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm... Clever... We'll live, I suppose. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:03, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion about . I prefer the look of the regular bar, but it fixes the problem. Kamiawolf 09:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could also just use - mini skill bar basically just uses it with a set icon size (33px).  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 13:24, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The Search for Enlightenment
I was on a quest from the Halls of chokhn which i got from Kachok " the path to enlightenment" the guy Hanbahd died and my log informed me to rezone or abandon quest to reset it. But after rezoneing and also abandoning the quest i still cant get the quest back from Kachok, does anyone no the solution to this bug, much appreciated Sir spended 22:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just rezoning would have been enough. If you abandoned it, you have to take the quest from Hanbahd the Anchorite in Holdings of Chokhin again and do it over. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 00:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I Got the quest from Kachock not Hanbahd, so thats a little confusing, i know the end quests sees me with Hanbahd, but he is not avaialble until you start the quest from Kachok. I had the scrolls but now i have abandoned the quest so therefore do not have them now, when i go back to Kachok to restart it he doesn't have a marker above his head for the quest, and when u click him he waffles on about the scrolls as if u already have them; i know there is a bug for this as i have read it somewhere on another wiki page, but there doesn't seem to be a solution. Sir spended 12:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The quest you want is actually The Madness of Prophecy. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Image Upload - Internal Error
My apologies if this is just me doing something incorrectly, but I'm trying to update some of the missing pictures on the Ranger Elite Sunspear armor page. The first time I attempted to upload an image I got this error:

Internal error Could not rename file "/tmp/phpC2ze4M" to "public/9/91/Ranger_Elite_Sunspear_Armor_M_gray_head_side.jpg".

So I tried a second time and then got this error:

Internal error Could not rename file "public/9/91/Ranger_Elite_Sunspear_Armor_M_gray_head_side.jpg" to "public/archive/9/91/20080925200045!Ranger_Elite_Sunspear_Armor_M_gray_head_side.jpg".

Is this a user error (on my part) or a wiki error? Shadowlance 20:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When did you do this? One of Wikia's image servers was broken a couple of days ago, that would explain it if it was then. If it was today, report it on the Wikia staff noticeboard please. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:08, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was today. Thanks for the advice.  I'll report it on the staff noticeboard.  Shadowlance 20:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Reed Bog monsters
It seems unclear whether Jungle Skale, Maguuma Warriors or Wind Riders actually occur in the Reed Bog (part of the Maguuma jungle). If anyone could check and report here or on Talk: Reed Bog, that'd be good. Please state whether you used normal or hard mode, or if you were doing any quests in the area. --◄mendel► 08:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As I stated previously on that talk page, Maguuma Warriors are quest-only during Blood And Smoke, and I've never seen the other two in either mode. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Polymock error???
I have defeated probably 3 or 4 people in polymock, and now when I try to go against anyone, they say "You don't have at least 1 common, 1 uncommon, and 1 rare polymock piece unlocked yet. You cannot play opponents using tournament rules at this time." Of course I don't have a rare piece you idiot, I haven't beaten them yet!! Hoff doesn't give me a quest, just says that I'm not ready to fight him....so what can I do to continue in polymock? I'm not gonna have to buy a rare piece, am I???
 * First of all have you finished all these quests?
 * Polymock: Defeat Yulma
 * Polymock: Defeat Plurgg
 * Polymock: Defeat Blarp
 * Polymock: Defeat Fonk
 * Polymock: Defeat Grulhammer Silverfist
 * Polymock: Defeat Necromancer Volumandus
 * Polymock: Defeat Dune Teardrinker
 * Polymock: Defeat Master Hoff


 * if not find out which and complete them


 * Second, its not an error... during the quest line you dont need 1 common 1 uncommon or 1 rare but if you've already defeated them then yes you do need 1 of each of those to battle them again beacause you've already finished their quest. --Balistic Pve (T/C) 16:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that in order to get the second-last one - Defeat Dune Teardrinker - you need to have first completed The Dawn of Rebellion, which is one of the primary Ebon Vanguard quests.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 18:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

--Ah, that was probably it. I don't think I have done that quest yet. Thanks    for the    help :D --Cradiak

Nvidia N4 drivers
Are you having any issues with the nvidia card?
 * I don't have a Nvidia card, but i'd suggest getting the latest drivers, try GuildWars support Random Time  15:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I tamed a bear... but still need help
So, i managed to tame a bear, after a long time, and when i finally tried to go out and test my bear, i noticed that it just wont follow me, it just starts walking in circles where it is, i tried changing his commands, heel, guars,attack but nothing... so i was wondering why this was happening, he is a level 4 bear --May monk of healing 19:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's still a bit wild... give it time. --◄mendel► 23:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * On a slightly more serious note, does your bear follow you if you run for a distance? All pets (including minipets) will "wander around" when you're not moving. Changing the commands won't do anything outside of battle. In battle, the "heel" command will tell the pet not to fight, the "guard" command is default behavior (attacks what you attack, and occasionally attacks foes that attack you), and the "attack" command only works when you're locked on to a foe; it'll lock the pet onto just that foe, allowing you to attack other targets without the pet switching too. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  02:34, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Profession Icons showing up wrong
This happens for me to the infoboxes in every article, whether it's for bosses, skills or NPC's. Some articles is worse than others, sometimes it'll be nearly the right width, sometimes it'll be 2-3 pixels wide. I use FireFox 3.0.3(latest iirc) but I don't remember changing anything on my end prior to this happening. Also I'm not really sure where I should put this :P feel free to move it to the right place GW-Viruzzz 09:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is a problem with the infoboxes. A recent change "fixed" an old typo so they work properly now; but at the same time, other sitewide problems are causing errors which makes this happen. I get it too, but it's random which icons (if any) are affected. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's very consistent for me, I haven't seen anywhere it isn't bugged. It's not happening to the other images like recharge, energy etc. (yet) But I haven't seen a box with an icon that wasn't messed up yet. GW-Viruzzz 10:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's happening for the recharge/cost/cast time/sac/exhaustion for me, too. King Neoterikos 10:17, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Dr ishmael has been working on the problem; I assume it's gone now? --◄mendel► 00:12, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * So much better now, not perfect though. Elementalist skills have the icon slightly overlapping the profession. Only for Factions, Nightfall and Core skills (Prophecies and EotN fix it by having a longer name :P) Same with type, "Enchantment spell" widens the infobox enough to not overlap
 * Example - Although it's much better than before :) GW-Viruzzz 11:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Parser in table
Can I get someone to look at these two pages and help me with getting this to display correctly.

The first page has a table that uses an if statement to determine if it displays. In this case it is the variable ep.

[| my table page]

The second page is the display with the variable defined. The problem is that I have other parts of the table setup showing also.

[| my display page]

Silent fist of fury 22:50, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The parser upgrade is breaking this in a big way, you can't use nested pipes like that any more, but you ought to be able to use literal pipes. Lemme play with that a bit. --◄mendel► 00:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, the table setup is just text unless you tell the wiki that it's a table (i.e. put it in  and  . Use the  only for   that you need for wikitables, if you need them for templates or links, the wiki will figure it out correctly where they go if you just put them in as-is. Oh, and have a look at Forum:Coding. --◄mendel► 00:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * thanks a bunch. Silent fist of fury 00:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

hi can somebody teach me how i can download the maps automatically? so i dont have to wait for the loading screen
i remembered there was a way to do this before. :) i havent played in a while. can somebody help?
 * It's a command line function. Check this out: Command line. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Youtube tag
What kind of template / other does the youtube video display function use, and how can I get my hands on the code?--îğá†ħŕášħ 06:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * See User:Randomtime. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 06:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That didn't help at all. I'm looking for the template tiself, which doesn't actually exist, I know about --[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]îğá†ħŕášħ  06:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Go to any youtube movie page and look at the html in the "embed" field. That's effectively what does, it's just limited to youtube videos.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 09:28, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The Youtube video display function is actually a MediaWiki extension; take your pick among these if you are looking for .php code. --◄mendel► 22:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Back to Pre-Searing
Is there a way to come back to PRE-SEARING ASCALON....i want a title with my character to become a cartographer and i explored everything except pre-searing ascalon...i rushed through that part i want to come back now...PLS RESPOND FAST


 * I have good news and bad news. The bad news first: It is impossible to play Pre-Searing again unless you make a new character. Existing characters can't go back.
 * The good news: Pre-Searing Ascalon does not count for the cartographer title - only areas you can see on your big Tyria map do (unless they're in Eye of the North, you don't need to do those). This means you still can get your cartographer title.
 * Consult our Grandmaster cartography guide to find out what you may have missed. If all else fails, get Cartography Made Easy to find out what you've overlooked. --◄mendel► 10:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Accidentally abandoned a primary quest... can I get it back?
In Night Fall, I got the Whisper challenge was about to do the mission to get the Whisper and I accidentally abandoned that primary quest... stupid but true. Can I get it back? If you can help let me know.

Thanks
 * Yes, you can always retake a primary quest. If you haven't left the outpost yet, you may need to zone into a different district before the NPC will offer it again. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I was upset and I got out of the game.
 * In that case, when you log back in the same NPC should offer it again. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I have tried that, but he is not offering again, I think it was Dunkoro in command post. It was a multi level quest and I had already done one part.
 * If it was The Command Post, you need to retake that from Lonai, not Dunkoro. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:47, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

She is not offering it either. The Mission was given by Whisper it was called To Kill a Demon
 * The quest page says you should be able to get it from the Master of Whispers in Dejarin Estate, just outside of Kodonur Crossroads.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:07, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
I'm somewhat inexperienced at wikis in general, but I noticed a vandalism on the Ritualist skills quick reference page. I'm not sure how to revert it. Should I just delete everything the vandal added? <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli 04:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Wat? There has been nochanges to that page for awhile. Likely it is a problem on one of the subpages which are included. What is the vandalism? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:07, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It was on a subpage of a subpage of a subpage... kinda hard to track down. Viruzz reverted it, should be fixed. http://guildwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:Mo&action=history  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Needed to purge the server cache, but it's fixed now.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lazuli, the standard method for reverting vandalism is to go the the history page, look at the top entry, and click the 'undo' link next to it. That wouldn't have worked in this case because the vandal didn't actually edit the Ritualist skills page, he edited a template that was included on the page.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What this does is to delete everything the vandal added, so Lazuli was right all along . --◄mendel► 15:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed it was in the subpage, but the same vandalism didn't appear on, for instance, the Monk skills quick reference, which I thought called forth the same subpage. Ah well.  It's solved then. <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  01:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason it wasn't appearing on everything was because it was a cache issue. When you have pages including templates that include other templates that include other templates, the server probably gets as confused as we do xD  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 03:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That is it, in short. A slightly longer explanation follows:
 * It's not strictly a case of confusion. The vandal changed Template:BeastInfo, which is used on thousands of pages (Dr Ishmael has protected it now). If the wiki applied the change to all those pages immediately, the server would get so bogged down that it could no longer respond. That is why these get placed in a queue that is worked on as pages are being served, and while there is this queue, you may encounter pages that don't have the change yet. Of course a full queue (and the BeastInfo change filled it up much) also delays all other changes from being applied, so that is why you may still see the "old" version on some pages. You can make a null edit (edit the page, but don't change anything, and save) or just append ?action=purge to the page URL to force such a change to be applied to a page, if you need to see it.
 * So the wiki isn't confused, it is just slow and methodical, albeit at the price of being inconsistent as it catches up. --◄mendel► 09:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Jagged Horror
while i was trying to get jagged horror from "Avarr the Fallen" in "Jaga Moraine" the signet of capture would not work for the one skill "jagged horrors", instead, the skill had a lock with a shield over it and would not let me capture it. i tried doing this multiple times and it still would not let me capture it even after killing him multiple times. Im starting to get worried that the game wont let me get it. i was just wondering what i was supposed to do in order to get it.


 * First, try not to post things multiple times. Sometimes it may post it multiple times if you hit the submit button multiple times.  Anyhow, to your question: If you do not have the right campaign for the skill (Nightfall for Jagged Bones), you can't capture it. --JonTheMon 23:59, 22 November 2008 (UTC)