Talk:Predator's Pounce

Possibly one of the most useful pet attacks in the game? --Armond Warblade (talk) 23:35, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Meh, if you're going full damage-pet oriented with Dire and all, this doesn't have much room on the bar, since you should be spamming skills like Brutal Strike, Bestial Mauling, Poisonous Bite, Pounce, Disrupting Lunge, Enraged Lunge...This is very nice for Hearty pets though, keeps them alive very long in tandem with Comfort Animal and any other buffs you care to bring like Call of Protection. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

I disagree. It does more damage than the other skills and it can help your pet stay alive a little (which should be somewhat useful for most beast masters). While I agree the healing isn't great, the fact that it costs 5 energy AND has a 5 seconds recharge time makes this a very spammable skill. Very nice with Crossfire.


 * "does more damage than the other skills" Um, check your math? Brutal Strike and Melandru's Assault deal out crazy damage when conditions are met and high damage regardless. Poisonous Bite lands unconditional, fairly long lasting degen for cheap cost as well. Keeping your pet alive is easily done with any number of pet buff skills, and it's not a huge deal if it dies anyways - rez with Comfort Animal in a flash, or use Heal as One if you're running it for a 100% health rez...no real loss. Energy isn't a huge problem on a pure Beastmaster (means: staff), and Brutal Strike is just as spammable. Combining Bow Attacks and Beastmastery is teh sucks in most cases, since it'll cost you either skill disables (Tiger's Fury, Heket's Rampage) or IAS, though you need a three-spec build for the former (Lightning Reflexes in Expertise). Crossfire...if your target is going to be Blocking, use Determined Shot to recharge all skills. Saves you from wasting unnecessary points in Bow Mastery. Only reason you'd really ever use a Bow on a BM is for interrupts, but your pet can do that for you. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:52, 4 May 2007 (CDT)


 * For 5 energy? You must be kidding me. Melandru's don't always meet, and even when it does.. predator's probably better simply due to the cost and low recharge. If you are using enraged, the face that you can't spam Melandru's and Brutal as much DESPITE it's fast recharge means you wont' meet the req. for enraged as much. Pred's damage is amazing, for a 5 energy. Poisonous is bullshit. Since when is degen a truly viable source of damage? -218.103.246.60 00:09, 5 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Since always, if you can show me any other Beast Mastery skill to cause degen then I'm willing to listen. Zomg, Viper's Nest! Ftl. Degen gives you 2 damage a second per pip. Poison is 4 pips, or 8 damage per second. Poisonous Bite will give you perhaps up to 20 seconds of Poison. 20 X 8 = 160 damage. For just 10 energy. You call that crap damage? It makes Pred's look like trash in comparison. You'd need to use it three times or more to achieve the same damage. You can argue that "degen is easily countered". But that's bullshit as well, tell me how it's not easy to counter the highly predictable spammage of Predator's Pounce? But wait - you don't compare degen to straight damage, you use them together! Duh! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:24, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
 * In PvP, conditions are usually removed quickly, which is why Blinding Flash's duration doesn't matter much. Bleeding, for example, is worthless for damage, the only pressure it gives (as seen in crippling slash) is that it cover cripple, and overloads the opposition's condition removal. It does not apply pressure mostly through damage. In PvE, foes die much faster than this. With Apply Poison, because every shot poisons, it's easy to spread poison so the damage -is- considerable, same with tainted flesh and rotting flesh. On a pet, however, changing targets much is ineffective due to pets' slow attack, pathing, and movement speed, not to mention recharge of poisonous bite. The fact is that while poisonous bite can deal 160 damage in 20 seconds, ignores Predator's Pounce's 140 -raw- damage, in 20 seconds, and 200 hp gain in pressure? Even without the HP gain, the raw damage is far superior to some silly -4 degen. I'm not saying degen isn't good, but poisonous bite isn't. Does anyone actually use sever artery for damage? NO! They use it for Gash. Conjure Phantasm is only every used in hex pressure to overload hex removal as well as helping with damage, not alone. The only case where single target degen is effective is in a split, ie, when they are away from a monk and means to remove it. This is why the means to remove it (SoM, Mend Touch, WoR, Troll, Healsig) are so popular, and ability to remove these means (Dshot, LeechSignet, Web of Distraction, Disrupting Dagger) are also popular. In any case, a BM won't be operating away from a fullfledged battle very much, so poison will be removed. Again, for PvE, foes die much faster than this. If this is DoA or something, or whatever, you shouldn't be using a pet anyway, and if you're fighting an extended battle, that +200 hp from pred's pounce would surely assist your monks. -Silk Weaker 03:13, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Whatever you say, I still contend that this is a meh skill at best. What sort of monk wastes healing on pets, anyways? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:13, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I use this with my Burning Arrow Ranger to add more DPS, because I have high expertise anyway and it's easy to spam this for just 2 energy. I cause poison anyway, so I do not prefer to use Poisonous Bite

This skill has high damage compared to skills that COST THE SAME! Sorry that I forgot to add that. Another great thing about this skill is that helps keep you pet alive in PvP, where it will get a Death Penalty when it dies (and they still have the recharge penalty, silly Arenanet). I have a PvP Beast Mastery build using this AND bow damage and it works very well, the combined damage is quite a lot, wheter you want to believe it or not. With Heal As One and this skill, I can cobine several effects in just two skills, thus keeping my pet alive pretty well and still be able to do other things, like interrupt and cause conditions. So what makes this skill so great? Simple: it combines a pet-survival skill (frees a slot) with a damage attack in an enviroment where conditions will do similar damage because they get removed blazingly fast. The only other 5 energy skill that does as much damage is Feral Lunge, which I try to bring a long just as often. All the others do LESS.
 * What he said, plus, you realize that when pets die they don't just gain DP, but you also blackout? Great to blackout yourself just when you're about to spike with hammerbash crushing and bestial or whatever, or maybe you need to use a sig, how about that? That's just my comment on "what sort of monk wastes healing pets, anyways?". If you play B/P, you realize that you need to actually use barrage to actually be effective, which is not possible if your pet dies every few seconds. The dead pet becomes a minion, that's the good part, but with the minions down and the pets as well, I don't think the monk will be happy.
 * Let's look at it like this. Either the PET soaks up the damage, or the RANGER... or even the monk. The ranger has, let's see, 70 armor. Less than a pet. What about the monk? SIXTY. Yeah, that's very smart, don't heal the tanks, let them die, and tank with your tatoos, go ahead. And who says that "tank" and "damage dealer" are different? That sound like something one of those people who thinks a warrior is just there to be hit and doesn't deal any lethal damage would say. Predator's Pounce deals more good damage over time, has the energy to sustain it, and I would probably give this a "decent" rating even if not for the healing, but face it, AoE damage will happen, and the best way to line back preemtively against thumper builds without necros, is to kill the pet. No hammerbash? No bestiual mauling? no Crushing blow? Your thumper becomes a sub-par warrior with a speed and attack boost. It has pressure, but nowhere near as dangerous. -Silk Weaker 04:24, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Just a note: Pets don't gain DP in PvE. (T/C) 18:29, 9 May 2007 (CDT)