Talk:Guide to using Heroes in PvE

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on new builds. Testing is encouraged but not required.''

Favored:
 * 1) (your vote here)

Unfavored:
 * 1) Nothing against the build. Simply put, it works. But generally, it's just a combination of existing builds. I've completed all of the RoT missions with henchmen and heroes only, each time with heroes running different builds (even did this w/o SV on Shiro). I don't believe this is necessary. But don't take this unfavored vote too seriously. What I'm proposing is, is to move this into a guide, rather than a team build. That way, there can be more expansion as well as a larger spotlight on this article, rather than this being "just another place to dump builds" and such. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:30, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Discussion
Planned for the Hero Builds section but I do not know the correct designation since there are no builds in that section. 196.2.124.252 13:06, 1 February 2007 (CST) Thunden
 * I've updated it with what I guessed should be in it. See GW:BUILD for the relevant codes. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:16, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks. Corrected to PvE Hero only 196.2.124.252 13:36, 1 February 2007 (CST) Thunden

shock? healing seed?
why shock? 3 points in air, no knockdown synergies, 5 points of exhaustion for only 20 damage, why not just bring a warrior based interupt? why give the ele healing seed and waste 10 points on healing prayers instead of just giving healing seed to the monk? tetracycloide 16:17, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Responses
I agree with the comments, especially about a guide rather than a build.

Please keep in mind that this is a newbie build, meant as a starting point for chars in Nightfall that are finding the Torment missions too tough, and are getting frustrated (especially given the average quality of PuGs). The first thing I looked for on GuildWiki was "Tested Hero Team builds". The category existed and then there was nothing. I'd be happy to contribute to a newbie guide, but can we have a redirect from hero builds to that guide to help navigation (and avoid a blank page)?

Cheap and Cheerful
This team build is only meant to remedy the lack of newbie help, not win HA. Looking at the other proposed builds on the Heros page I notice the kind of elitism that discourages new players. "suggested using a perfect furious mod" and "1 Bloodstained Insignia ... a must". Bloodstained Insignia are currently going for 11K. For a newb? My Master doesn't have one. The first time I owned a green was the Book of Secrets. The fiery Dragon sword was a lucky drop and I built my char around synergy with it. There are no runes in this build that cost more than 1K (Minor Vigor on the main char was free). Farming is not a good intro to GW IMHO.

Maybe I should rename this to "Heros Under 50k" :)

This team build is necessary because pointing a new player at a page that contains hundreds of top of the line individual builds gives them no clue as to what works well together on an in game budget.

Cookies and Customisation
Other than the main char, yes, its cookie cutter stuff. The main char isn't cookie cutter by choice, but without personal experience, I fell back on established wisdom for the others. However, it took a fair chunk of trial and error to find out which builds a hero could run in a +50% energy use environment. The number of possible combinations of henchmen is mind boggling. A guide would make it clear that the main char should be custom built for the fun and experience.

More variants needed
As for Healing Seed and Shock, Zhed finishes a battle with 30 E. Dunk is starved from 1/2 - 3/4 of the way in. Please propose a variant solution. Maybe E/N with another Blood Ritual? Might put too much of a strain on Dunk's recharge times. Shock is replaceable (although it has a synergy with AoE damage) and I'll put in a variants comment. Knockdown does seem to disrupt Call to the Torment and I don't know if pure interrupts would (plus I HAD to use those Stonefist gauntlets for something ). The 3 Air magic points are surplus with that distribution of skills. I actually finished with 0 points in Air.

Optimal build for a suboptimal world
To head off some other valid criticism: Dunkoro's Protection Prayers is too high because his focus item requires it. The Tactics line would probably be stripped from the warrior if his shield didn't req 9 tactics.

This build survives crappy eq drops. It survives 450ms+ ping always with occasional 1000ms+. As it stands, it is suboptimal and that's the idea. It is an actual build based on real world constraints, not a perfect world build - and it still works. If this is included in a guide, I can make it clear what is flexible in the build and what is not so flexible (especially wrt eq & runes) along with general comments and instructions on hero management, target selection and calling, flags and tanking, etc. If others could chip in with good (pref cheap) options for R, Rt, Me, D, P (ha ha) & A (to accommodate other main chars) that would be great because I haven't a clue.

Do we want a newb guide?
On the other hand, maybe the world doesn't need or want a newb guide. With successive releases getting harder and harder, the barrier to entry is going up, keeping newer players out. Maybe some consider that a good thing. Maybe the majority think that it is. If so, lets dispense with the misleading hero builds section altogether and then new players can either hack it, or they can't. Then again, a guide might raise the quality of PuGs, making the experience more fun for all of us.

Thunden 03:36, 2 February 2007 (CST)Thunden