Talk:Damage calculation

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Holy on undead: Double or -40?
I'll leave other ppl to figure out how to test it, I'm just asking the questions to make our knowledge more complete d-:

One interesting thing I noticed about holy damage on undead is that it can't crit. It will always do double the normal value, never critting.--Dragos 13:21, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, when minions take damage, can the necro see how much damage was taken? If not this might have to be tested in PvP )-: -PanSola 15:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Again: Needed Testing on Damage Level Attribute Threshold
Characters level 2-7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 17. Swing 10 criticals on a Whiptail Devourer (note, they're right outside Ascalon) and report your damage as well as the exact stats of your weapon/ what your attribute level is. We need to verify the diminishing returns formula holds at every level.

Traps
The February 1st Game Update had traps damage match their descriptions. The article still states that traps have a damage rating of 0 (which is now incorrect). What's more important is, does a higher level character have a higher damage rating trap than a lower level character? --Kale Ironfist 17:38, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Heh, I'd test if it didn't involve me having to make a PvE character. --Fyren 00:32, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Shielding Hands
In the past, Shielding Hands used to be useless with Protective Spirit, as the Shielding Hand reduction always come first. Sometime over the past few months, that has changed, to be the order the enchantments were applied. Additionally, Shielding Hands now take effect AFTER DMult (tested with Frenzy). However, the "+x damage" modifiers are still applied before DMult.

It's been reported that another damage reduction skill, Stoneflesh Aura, also interacts with Protective Spirit depending on the casting order. On the other hand, there also exist an report of Armor of Sanctity (another damage reduction skill) has its reduction applied before Protective Spirit's cap regardless of the casting order.

In light of this, I think we should test all damage reduction effects, and see how they interact with Frenzy, Aura of the Lich, and Protective Spirit.


 * Shielding Hands
 * Shield of Absorption
 * Call of Protection
 * Stoneflesh Aura
 * Armor of Sanctity
 * Lightbringer rank
 * Knight's Insignia
 * Rune of Absorption
 * Inscriptions that reduce physical damage

I hypothesize that all equipments have same behavior, but it's still worth checking. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 14:51, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

Decimals
Mathematically, we have to use 1.20 for the right number of significant digits, else we would have to round the answers a bit oddly. Whole numbers can be left alone, however; they are assumed to be, for example, 6.00000000000000000000000000... --Armond Warblade (talk) 15:43, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We don't because the game doesn't. --Fyren 15:49, 2 May 2007 (CDT)

Sundering example
It has 10% Sundering as per before the change to 20% Sundering.

AR Shifter
does some1 mind explain what the heck is ARShift? its not clearly explained in the article
 * Armor that doesn't count for armor penetration. I don't know if anyone's done good testing on which kinds of armor bonuses (shields, bonuses from weapon mods, bonuses from insignias, bonuses from skills) are or aren't affected by AP.  Armor penalties are all counted after AP, though.  --Fyren 20:46, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * k thx, also i had a problem calculating the dmg from lightning hammer, 16 air magic to a normal 60 Al target, the actualy number is 140 but the equation calculated it to be around 300. any advice?
 * 106 * 2^((60 - 60 * 0.75) / 40) ~= 137. 106 is the listed damage, the 60s are the armor rating and damage rating, the 0.75 is for the armor penetration.  As for why it doesn't give 140, I dunno.  It's one of the mysteries of the damage equation I never figured out, but maybe someone else has and no one ever edited the article here.  --Fyren 00:00, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

armor formula
I believe I have found out the formula for determining the multiplier for armor with lvl 20 vs lvl 20:

multiplier = sqrt(8)*((sqrt(2)/2)0.05)effective AL

I don't know anything about other lvl vs lvl multipliers, but with the multipliers 2 at 20 AL, 1 at 60 AL, 0.5 at 100 AL, and 0.25 at 140 AL (the standard known Base 60, diff 40 doubles/halves damage) you could come up with a formula with a graphing calculator --Gimmethegepgun 17:56, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
 * What you just gave is the same as 2^((60 - x) / 40). Look familiar?  --Fyren 18:38, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Not really, my calc spat it out in the form a*bx and I translated the awful decimals into sqrt(8) and (20th rt(sqrt(2)/2))x, and I'm tired right now and can't see a resemblance --Gimmethegepgun 21:26, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The formula you gave and the one I just gave are the same. Using the article's terms, it's armor effect for a given EAL when EDR is 60.  --Fyren 22:33, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

What I personaly use is Damage * (40/(AL-20)) = Damage Dealt Zulu Inuoe 13:34, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Use Damage * (1 + ((AL - 60)/40)*(-1)) for armor values under 60. Zulu Inuoe 04:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

sugestion and question.
i think it would work very well if at the bottom or have a lank to a giant chart that that would give all the damge reduction depending on armor rating. also what percentage is 8 armor from a shield?
 * 8 armor = 10% reduction. Zulu Inuoe 13:36, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

error?
In the second example with Critical chop, the critical hit occuring isn't calculated.

I don't get it.
So what I've always wondered about is: Does attribute level directly influence damage output? Of course if you have 16 ranks in swordsmanship you have more chance to inflict a crithit than you would if you had 9 ranks in it (meeting the req. of your weapon of course). But I couldn't find in the article if it directly influences your damage.

Example: A lvl 20 warrior with 9 swordsmanship meeting his weapon req attacks a lvl 20 monk with 60 armor.

Then, another lvl 20 warrior with 16 swordsmanship also meeting his weapon req attacks that same monk.

Does the warrior with 16 in his attribute do more damage to the monk (NOT counting the critical hits!) or does it not matter? --Progger 14:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What I wondered is why people want req9... AFAIK, there is nothing better about it. Anyhow, you ask for a DPS by a warrior with 9 and one with 16 swords, sort of. I'll head over to the Master of Damage, once GW fires up. --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 15:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Results:
 * Warrior with a clean, max damage, req9 PvP sword.


 * Mastery - - - DPS - - - Crit
 * 9 - - - - - - - - 14 - - - - - 29
 * 12- - - - - - - - 18 - - - - 37
 * 16- - - - - - - - 21 - - - - 43


 * DPS is over 180 seconds, btw :) (that is when I automatically stopped autoattacking)
 * I can;t filer out crits, unless I get someone to maintain dulled weapon on me for 10 minutes, and let's me beat him up... Ah well, it is definatly diffrent. It doesn't make a huge diffrence, but then again, this is also without Strength and without attack skeelz --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 15:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, having 16 swordsmanship allows you to deal more damage than having 9, even not count critits. see Damage_calculation. Sword req on the other hand doesn't matter (as long as you meet the min) -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 07:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Gauntlet Damage
After reading about the myth that spells can't target your hands, I shortly after proved it wrong many times by taking over 300dmg from such spells like lightning hammer (from NPC's in AB) or shatterstone (from dragon moss). No, I wasn't using frenzy, healsig, or any other type of armor-reducing skills or runes...just being gloveless. The enemies weren't bosses either, and it didn't happen very often. Either way, I think it is in everyone's best interest to say that spells can hit your hands. --Aoshi
 * Screenshot would be good, but I believe you anyways. Game mechanics can change. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Eh, you scared me into thinking that myth is in the present article. Don't do that again, it's bad for my heart >_<"""  Anyways, that information used to be true (or highly close to being true, as it's "projectiles" that couldn't hit hands, as opposed to spells), as I had personally tested it over 500 hits of Lightning Orb.  However, after July 13th 2006 it has been changed.  For details, see here. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

MultiAttacks, how do they work (example Hundred Blades)?
Suppose one uses Hundred Blades and suppose there are 5 adjacent foes. How does sundering, critical hit and warrior strength play in? Does each hit have, individually, the sundering chance and the critical hit chance (so that, on average, 20% of the 10 hits are sundering--so maybe only 2 hits are sundering), or, is it that sundering or critical may trigger and then all (10) hits from using hundred blades are sundering/critical? Does the warrior Strength attribute (armor pen when using an attack skill) only affect the first hit, or all (10) hits from hundred blades? Susan 18:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

AR Shift
If I'm reading this correctly, Armor Penetration does not apply to 'bonus' armor, such as from Shields, Weapons, Insignias, Skills, etc. Is this true? Zulu Inuoe 18:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That is correct, at least as of the last time the damage mechanics was verified (no official announcement of changes has been made, but that is not 100% gaurentee that Anet doesn't change things in secrete). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess I'll test. Zulu Inuoe 19:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Tested, it's true. Zulu Inuoe 19:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

A table of the effect of weapon attributes on a weapon rated to do 10 damage and effect of armor on the damage
Assuming a weapon that does only 10 damage, and assuming you meet the weapon requirements, this shows how various attributes effect the actual damage, as well as the effect of standard max armor (96 and 116 represent having shields). 'weapon' is base weapon damage, 'effect' is damage modified by armor. Weapon bonus multiplies the displayed damage; for instance, the usual customized and 15% above 50 hp multiplies by 1.38. For a warrior, multiply by 1.5 to 2.2 (or 2.07 to 3.036 with bonus), for another example. Attributes up to 25 are given for Hard Mode monsters and bosses; I am sure some have attributes to 22, but maybe some are higher. GW-Susan 14:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

attrib   weapon             armor    effect             armor    effect 5      5.45      |        60       5.45      |        70       4.59         6       5.95      |        60       5.95      |        70       5.00         7       6.48      |        60       6.48      |        70       5.45         8       7.07      |        60       7.07      |        70       5.95         9       7.71      |        60       7.71      |        70       6.48        10       8.41      |        60       8.41      |        70       7.07        11       9.17      |        60       9.17      |        70       7.71        12      10.00      |        60      10.00      |        70       8.41        13      10.35      |        60      10.35      |        70       8.71        14      10.72      |        60      10.72      |        70       9.01        15      11.10      |        60      11.10      |        70       9.33        16      11.49      |        60      11.49      |        70       9.66        17      11.89      |        60      11.89      |        70      10.00        18      12.31      |        60      12.31      |        70      10.35        19      12.75      |        60      12.75      |        70      10.72        20      13.20      |        60      13.20      |        70      11.10        21      13.66      |        60      13.66      |        70      11.49        22      14.14      |        60      14.14      |        70      11.89        23      14.64      |        60      14.64      |        70      12.31        24      15.16      |        60      15.16      |        70      12.75        25      15.69      |        60      15.69      |        70      13.20         5       5.45      |        80       3.86      |        96       2.92         6       5.95      |        80       4.20      |        96       3.19         7       6.48      |        80       4.59      |        96       3.47         8       7.07      |        80       5.00      |        96       3.79         9       7.71      |        80       5.45      |        96       4.13        10       8.41      |        80       5.95      |        96       4.51        11       9.17      |        80       6.48      |        96       4.91        12      10.00      |        80       7.07      |        96       5.36        13      10.35      |        80       7.32      |        96       5.55        14      10.72      |        80       7.58      |        96       5.74        15      11.10      |        80       7.85      |        96       5.95        16      11.49      |        80       8.12      |        96       6.16        17      11.89      |        80       8.41      |        96       6.37        18      12.31      |        80       8.71      |        96       6.60        19      12.75      |        80       9.01      |        96       6.83        20      13.20      |        80       9.33      |        96       7.07        21      13.66      |        80       9.66      |        96       7.32        22      14.14      |        80      10.00      |        96       7.58        23      14.64      |        80      10.35      |        96       7.85        24      15.16      |        80      10.72      |        96       8.12        25      15.69      |        80      11.10      |        96       8.41         5       5.45      |       100       2.73      |       116       2.07         6       5.95      |       100       2.97      |       116       2.25         7       6.48      |       100       3.24      |       116       2.46         8       7.07      |       100       3.54      |       116       2.68         9       7.71      |       100       3.86      |       116       2.92        10       8.41      |       100       4.20      |       116       3.19        11       9.17      |       100       4.59      |       116       3.47        12      10.00      |       100       5.00      |       116       3.79        13      10.35      |       100       5.18      |       116       3.92        14      10.72      |       100       5.36      |       116       4.06        15      11.10      |       100       5.55      |       116       4.20        16      11.49      |       100       5.74      |       116       4.35        17      11.89      |       100       5.95      |       116       4.51        18      12.31      |       100       6.16      |       116       4.67        19      12.75      |       100       6.37      |       116       4.83        20      13.20      |       100       6.60      |       116       5.00        21      13.66      |       100       6.83      |       116       5.18        22      14.14      |       100       7.07      |       116       5.36        23      14.64      |       100       7.32      |       116       5.55        24      15.16      |       100       7.58      |       116       5.74        25      15.69      |       100       7.85      |       116       5.95

Calculation Put Into Code
I tried to put the damage calculation into pseudo-C++, I need to see if I got it right. Anyone mind helping me spot any problems here? (Warning, it is kind long) DealDamage {	if (Caster) {		BaseDRate  = 3 * Level; ArmorEffect = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; EffDmg     = (((RawDamage * DmgScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; }	if (Skill) {		ArmorEffect = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; EffDmg     = (((RawDamage * DmgScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; }	if (!Caster && !Skill) {		Threshold  = (Level / 2) + 2; ArmorEffect = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; if (Rank > Threshold) {			DR = 5 * (Threshold + (2 * (Rank - Threshold))); }		else {			DR = 5 * Rank; }		DR   += RawDmg;

EffDmg = (((DR * DScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; } }

Thanks in advance for your help. talk 06:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You seem to be multiplying by armor, for no apparent reason in particular. Higher armor should mean you take less damage, not more.  I certainly don't see where you're including the exponential effect of armor.  Quizzical 07:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

There are some weapons from crafters in prophecies that have +1dmg vs charr and some with +3dmg vs undead. Is this +dmg added to base weapon dmg or only after all other dmg has been calculated and then +1 vs charr or +3vs undead?--96.13.240.15 00:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I uhhh... Kinda missed that on the 1st go thru. And I'm not multiplying by the armor, least I don't think I am; I'm multiplying by the armor's effectiveness (ArmorEffect), otherwise, I presented the code and calculations as they were in the original formulae. ArmorEffect = 2 ** ((EffDR - EffAR) / 40); talk 09:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You've defined ArmorEffect as the armor level, and then you multiply by it on the next line. Even in pseudocode, using the same variable to mean two different things is bad notation.  Quizzical 18:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ::looks at code:: Oh, so I did. My bad...  Hmmmm...

DealDamage {	if (Caster) {		BaseDRate  = 3 * Level; EffDR      = BaseDRate + DRBonus; EffectiveAL = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; ArmorEffect = 2 ** ((EffDR - EffectiveAL) / 40); EffDmg     = (((RawDamage * DmgScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; }	if (Skill) {               EffDR       = BaseDRate + DRBonus; EffectiveAL = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; ArmorEffect = 2 ** ((EffDR - EffectiveAL) / 40); EffDmg     = (((RawDamage * DmgScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; }	if (!Caster && !Skill) {		Threshold  = (Level / 2) + 2; EffectiveAL = BaseAR * (1-ArmorPen) + ARShift; if (Rank > Threshold) {			DR = 5 * (Threshold + (2 * (Rank - Threshold))); }		else {			DR = 5 * Rank; }		EffDR     += RawDmg + DRBonus; ArmorEffect = 2 ** ((EffDR - EffectiveAL) / 40); EffDmg     = (((DR * DScale * ArmorEffect) + DmgShift) * DMult) + DNeg;

return (int)EffDmg; } } Right... Fixed the errors that were pointed out...  This better? talk 07:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)