Talk:Hard Mode/Archive2

/Archive 1 - before hard mode was introduced

/Drop Rate | /Access | /Monster & NPC Skills, AI, and items = Moved discussions =

Presearing
= Item-related discussions =

Shing Jea and Istan Greens
I'm wondering what will be of the greens in Istan and Shing Jea in hard mode since the bosses will not be such a low level in it. I will try to get around to it and farm Tahkayun Tsi but I might not be able to do it until later so if anyone finds out later, feel free to post it here if I haven't already. Soultwister 21:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm trying right now but it is proving difficult, since the Monitors can heal like crazy (Shield of Regen!) and Tahkayun Tsi is level 27!) Soultwister 22:47, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I was able to get the Deathkeeper of off Yunlai Deathkeeper in Sunqua Vale last night in Hard Mode. It's stats were exactly the same as the Normal Mode version. Cerebus

Thanks, thats pretty stupid, fighting a level 27 boss only to get a weapon that does not have any use at all, other then being good for newly made characters. Soultwister 18:37, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Lockpicks vs skill tombs contradiction
I get why they have lockpicks instead of different keys for different areas. I'm a big fan of this fact. However, it would be nice if they followed the same philosophy for skill tombs. It makes sence that rangers drop ranger skill tombs, that's for sure. But it seems like it would be nice to follow the philosophy of not needing a bounch of different (keys) to not needing a bounch of different (tomes). Like I said, it makes less sense for a ranger to drop a monk tomes, but it also makes less sence that soul reaping only triggers every 5 seconds or that loot drop varies based on party size (my point here being sometimes GW favors making sense over gameplay, and sometimes they favor gameplay over making sense). This is really not so much a critique or complaint, more of an observation. --Mooseyfate 13:50, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Uhm, it's "Tome" wtf, noone died, what do books have to do with dead people?


 * They're trying to encourage hunting parties as opposed to cookie cutter farm teams. The former is more interesting and variable depending on skill, etc. On Jarin Plains, my 3 man team got, in total, 12 golds. gg.


 * This is in favor of gameplay, yes, but what's wrong with that?-Silk Weaker 13:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Like Moosey said, it simply an observation. Personally I like the different tome things, simply because a book can only hold so much before it's too heavy to carry. I know, I read a lot. If every tome carried every skill from every profession it would me far too thick. Now split it up into different professions and you get an easier to carry book. Atleast that is my theory on why the different tomes makes sense.[[Image:Horrified.png]]Kilcannon 17:39, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * About the whole size and weight thing, keep in mind, in GW physics, a full suit of plate armor is both large enough for a nearly 7 foot tall 300 pount warrior to wear and provide a large amount of armor, and small enough for the FULL SUIT to fit in a pouch on his belt. And that same warrior can carry 20 two handed heavy hammers in his back pack, and carry 20 more in bags if he wants to. In addition to all that, he can still manage to carry 100k worth of gold pieces on his person as well. And he can carry all this without even slowing down. And best of all, the same stuff can just as easily be carried by the tiny little 5 foot 100 pound monk girl too... DKS01 19:34, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Skill tomes are an odd sort of thing. In a way, you have to view them as magical items because if they was really just books, you could read them more than once, you could learn all the skills contained in them (eventually) and you could retain them for all of your characters to use. The skill tome is just a new game mechanic for learning skills, and a tome just happened to be the device they wanted to implement it through. It would have worked just as well if was a hypodermic needle with skills you could inject. I don't think too much thought needs to be put into whether it makes sense in real life. -- Blazeroth 13:51, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

= Misc discussions =

Monster Pages
All monster pages will need to be updated with Hard Mode info. If I may suggest a method... My example would be how monsters such as this one are currently displayed.
 * Add a second set of levels below the first set, showing possible levels in hard mode.
 * Add a second list of skills under the first set, showing skills by level in hard mode.

A Bot would probably be best suited to the task of creating these new places to enter data on each Monster Page. --   09:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * There's enough horizontal space that I think hard mode data in the article should be a separate column, instead of taking more vertical space. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:25, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Works for me... Just make sure somebody does it before everybody starts updating each article the way they think looks best, so it's all uniform. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    09:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm willing to update pages as needed, so far i've just made a note on Suneh Stormbringer at the bottom of the page on the skill setting and made a note of the xp bonus given from Plant Hunt. let me know if its ok or you want it changed.  tyvm  Ferdoc 11:25, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Bug Tag
There has been a lot of confusion about what you need to do in order to access hard mode on characters that haven't completed a particular chapter. If it's not a bug that you need to log in on a character that has, there should at least be a note mentioning it. Mercurius Ter Maxim 05:24, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * According to GWW it is. That could mean it really is a bug since we know anet wants to use GWW for documentation. Argel 10:11, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

I found that also animals count, such as moa birds

Variation
Would have been more fun with a little more variation in names and such...like: Elder Devourer Elite Charr Ancient Scarab Just some new names to add some variety and a feeling of fighting new monsters :) (Soulflame 06:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT))
 * While that would make the game seem more cool... I don't think they're trying to make it seem a totally new game, just a harder, perhaps more realistic version of normal mode. (How can lvl 5 Ascalonian npcs have foughten the Krytan npcs who are so much stronger than them in the 'Guild Wars'.) With the monsters all more powerful, and the same names, it depicts a more realistic version of the game instead of your little elementalist being able to destroy an entire charr legion by themselves. Alreajk 16:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Leprechaun
User Leprechaun copy/pasted 68 times "Changes to normal mode". Someone wanna reverse that and punish that "funny" user? &mdash; Abedeus   09:54, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. -- Gordon Ecker 21:28, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

All chests give title
I checked, and I think that all chests in hard mode give a treasure hunting title point, regardless of area. If anyone wants to check and add this, I'd be grateful Smarty100044@msn.com 14:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ripped from redirect page. --Armond Warblade (talk) 15:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

The Underworld / FoW
According to Gaile: "Hard mode is available in all areas of the game except for Pre-Searing Ascalon.". Anyone checked the Underworld?
 * Yes, there are some quite lovely level 32 aatxes there. Fred The Second 16:15, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I ran into those myself. Less then friendly, I must say.  And the +50 Speed Boost is not conductive towards Smite only farming.  On the plus side, +50% attack speed = Spiteful Spirit heaven. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    19:35, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Needs to Be Fixed
The section on tiems need to be fixed, and since i suck at Wiki HTML, someone do it, please. Kurzspear 18:27, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * the  [edit] [edit] [edit]  ? that's because the pictures are all larger then the sections that house them, and it's pushing the edit tags down the page to the first gap in the pictures. known issue, nothing to be done. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 18:29, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Aw, that means the article can't look pretty... Kurzspear 18:31, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed, ... &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 18:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice. I was wondering about that ugliness myself. If I had a cookie, I would give it to you. ^_^ Gwen Shadowsound 18:59, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * -eats- &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 19:45, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * undos* You only need ONE , no need to spam and flood the article with it.  I've removed every single one of them as a punishment!  Now you should suffer through all the [edit] links!!!  (ie, I've fixed it) -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:26, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Explorer Title
It should be noted on the page somewhere that Hard Mode combines VERY well with explorer titles, as you are already required to clear every enemy from the area, it's no challenge to map it while you're there. --   19:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Any opinions on this? --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   21:41, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think the note should go in the Vanquisher article. -- Gordon Ecker 22:30, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Entering Hard Mode
ive allrdy beat hells precipice on my tank, so will i be able to enter had mode on him and my other characters?
 * Please read the Accessibility section on the Hard Mode page, it answers your question there. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:57, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

suicide farming
farming hopping vampires and thought stealer's on hard mode lvl 20 necro 9 soul reaping 9 death magic and the skill animate bone minion mwahahahahaha

Hard as Hell
Just me, or do some of the enemies need to be brought down to make missions possible? The AI have increased Spiking abilites as well. If Anet wants to make Hard Mode "possible" then they need to tone down the level 30 mobs in groups of nine... Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:00, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe you just need to work harder. :p  I'd be willing to bet if you used a team similar to that used for Balanced DoA Farming, you could fairly easily beat most of the hard mode quests and missions.  Whether or not you can form such a team is not A-Net's problem. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    00:35, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe I'm just a wuss, but hard mode is too hard. I just had the "pleasure" of Vanquishing Old Ascalon, with three heroes: Koss, Tahlkora and Melonni. It was easily the most painstaking, grueling, unfun thing I've done in a while. Hovering constantly near death, the Tahl and Mel dropping like flies, we struggled through for three hours, only to have to go back and basically retrace the entire map because we'd missed a few (and believe me, I never realized how big an area Old Ascalon was until I had to do this). At the end, we had to fight a larger-than-normal mob of devourers. If I had died twice more times, all that work would've been down the drain, as it would've if I'd had a power outage or disconnect. Keep in mind this was Old Ascalon, the very first non-tutorial area of the very first game. I could only imagine the hell Hard Mode would be in areas that were actually difficult in the first place. I could imagine it, I say, but I really don't care to. I guess I'm just not 1337 enough. Arshay Duskbrow 00:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hard mode mursaats were owning my party, but the devourers drop like flies. I'm personally disappointed to see the Res Signet not on most monster's bars... -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:55, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, I mean, why monsters lv 8-9 are lvl 25 in Hard Mode, while monsters 2-3 are 22-23? This makes no sense! They should be lvl 19-20... And yes, they spike better than top 100 guilds - 6 Mantids Necromanters wiped out my team in 3 spells, because they all cast spell on same target... This is FREAKIN' HARD! And I don't feel that I like that. &mdash; Abedeus   00:46, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

It's not like it's called "Hard Mode" or anything. Sheesh. Danakin 01:33, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There's a difference between "challenging but rewarding" and "self-inflicted punishment". Admittedly, Old Ascalon might not be the best place to gain an initial impression; it's a huge area, and you've only got 3 other party members. Even so, I can't imagine anyone enjoying the slog through all that. Arshay Duskbrow 01:47, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Lol, we did use a DoA team XD. HB Monk w/ HP and 2 SF nukers (We needed mel) It was kinda ridiculous (Guild group too) O.o. Besides, even in DoA enemies are only 30 and yet its the same for reg mishes. Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:48, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * People asked for a challenge in PvE. Now they have it.  For those of us who like to act insane, we love it. 3 Areas Vanquished already! :) --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    00:49, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * ...And all with Heroes. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   00:49, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

The only thing I wish they would change to hard mode is to give us minimum 6 party members when in HM. It is doable with 4 though, with patient pulling, as most low level mobs are in groups of 1 or 2, not 6-10 like high levels. Queen Schmuck 01:25, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * i lost The Hard Northern Wall twice in a row, it's hard. but i managed to get through with Charge and some luck. hard mode people mostly know what they're doing. the faint of build usually don't apply, so better quality pugs where you can find them. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 01:33, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Tip to all: Hard Mode is a lot easier with a Minion Master. If you can only have four characters, you want as much of an army as you can get. Minion master does that, increasing your defense with body blocking and your offense with fleshies/bombing/jaggeds causing bleeding. I, too, am disappointed by the lack of res sigs. I don't see how vanquishing will be impossible with a good choice of heroes - figure out ways to maximize damage to enemy targets and minimize damage to your allies.


 * As for spiking: They're computer controlled to start casting spells in the same millisecond. Even a relatively weak spell like flare can do a good chunk of damage when you're taking three packets of damage in one millisecond. (Speaking of, the ele boss in The Great Northern Wall was hitting my AL 60 monk for 92 with that spell.)


 * Gaile said in advance that all the hard mode enemies would be level 20+, didn't she? I remember something specific about level 20 Charr in the Flame Temple Corridor or whatever. We should all have been prepared for things of this magnitude - I personally was expecting level 20s in Wall, but I got 22s. Not too far off. I was actually disappointed when I took a peek in Hell's and found that the titans were only level 30 (up from 28). I was expecting 34+, preferably 36. There should be some prestige for beating Hell's in hard. Though I've heard rumors of a level 50 Glint... Though more likely than not she's closer to level 40.


 * On the flip side, I've been known to use some pretty creative language when trying to get heroes and henchies to coordinate against djinn for Lightbringer farming. Adding a human or two (not too hard to find a person "LFG HM LB FARM") is incredibly helpful. I generally go three humans, five heroes/henchies. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:00, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, I'm not sure how to do Snake Dance ~ Lonar's Pass without getting 60% DP even in normal mode, so in that sense I probably can't vanquish it in hard mode...  I'll rather take on Great Northern Wall in hard mode with double number of mobs than doing Snake Dance ~ Lonar's Pass at normal.  d-:  Anyways, is Sorrow's Furnace the only place to find lots of mobs with rezzes? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:08, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * One human: Spiker human, monk, MM, and monk human. One ZB prot, one HB Favor/Heal/Prot split. Henchies should be two warriors, an ele, and a necro for BR. Two humans: Monk (either ZB/Prot or HB split) and tank (W/D Vital Boon/Defy Pain/Endure Pain?) humans. Heroes should be an MM, two spikers, an SS with BR, another tank, and a Support/Spear paragon. Try it, I dare you. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:18, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Oh, and Roaring Ethers have res sigs, though they have them in normal too. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:19, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I find it to be absolutely vital to bring a MM with me into Hard Mode, but since the Soul Reaping nerf (haaaaaate it) I have to play MM myself, or the required number of healthy minions just won't be reached. No minions = no explandable tanks = players/heroes/henchies starts dying like flies. However, in higher level areas, since I have to invest such huge amount of energy into just healing myself and my minions, I need (NEED!) a battery-necro with me. This is just plain silly. Until the Soul Reaping nerf is undone, Hard Mode just doesn't appeal to me. Ichimaru, 21 April 2007

Well, Hard mode in Gate of Anguish is a joke. When weekend is over and I'm stuffed full of Lb pts (-buuurp-) I'll check out the rest of the game. I'm disappointed! I mean, in some aspects, Hard mode is actually EASIER, as monsters will attack and cast more often making certain builds and skills more useful (essence bond /life bond+ balthazar, Shield of Absorption, SS, etc) NightAngel 10:22, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I think, for low level areas, its like the took the best real person builds, and put them on the monsters, ive faced spikes in RA that were easier to defend against, its ruining the fun on of the game. no me gusta. i really think they could have made it less like getting fcuked in the ass difficult, and made it more "reasonably challenging, but still fun."

I don't think so, it should be hard as HELL. Please, please remember it is OPTIONAL. I know, some people think getting new titles and such is a holy task demanded by superior powers, but for the normal human beings hard mode content is strictly a matter of choosing to suffer. Yes. Masochism. It's out there. :) NightAngel 12:50, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I've vanquished Old Ascalon, holy shit it was easy as hell. None of my heroes or me died the entire time... the hard part was finding all the devourers, damn those things are annoying to find. 1 Hammer W/R with a pet and Heket's for adren and Devastating->Fierce->Heavy 1 MM, Jagged Bones, a little offensive death spells to help me kill, 2 monks, 1 WoH with hex removal, 1 Life Sheath/damage reduction with hex removal. Easy vanquisher point. All you need is a good team, it seems easier being a warrior also, since I don't die as much and take 0 damage while SoA is on me. <>Spark 13:03, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Night 2:Regent Valley.



Hell on Earth. Grawl Ulodytes are ridiculous. ONE is handleable with Diversion spam and Distracting Shot, but two together (with two Grawl hammer-murderers) are impossible with one human and three heroes. No amount of coordination or skill choice will allow you to succeed. Pulling is a must, but it's difficult. For this map at least, Olias was much more effective as a curse necro. Enfeebling Blood really helps cut down the damage, and SS is nice with the IAS. To tell the truth, I'm not sure MMing in Hard Mode is a good idea...those poor little minions just can't stand up to the souped up monsters. :( Arshay Duskbrow 04:46, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Well, I've tried Realm of Torment with a MM, and without a MM, and I can say with 100% certainty that in my experience, having the MM made it at LEAST twice as easy as not having one. The minions were holding up well enough, and with them all being death nova'ed and in some cases jagged boned, when one died it just meant the nearest souped up monster took a nice chunk of armor ignoring damage and got poisoned, then the minion was instantly replaced by another one. For what it's worth though, I had Razah running a rit minion bomb build rather than the traditional MM though. With Boon of Creation he was able to maintain his full army fairly well, with Spirit's Gift he provided party support with healing and condition removal, with Explosive Growth everytime he raised one he was also spreading damage, and with Death Nova, every time one died it went out dealing damage. Plus with jagged horrors and death nova, he was able to pretty liberally spread around 7 degen. Definitely won't be going in there without a MM of some sort either way. DKS01 07:12, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A good way to get past dual ulodytes is to Rip Enchantment and/or Corrupt Enchantment to screw their HH then they are a joke. <>Spark 14:35, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * If they removed their insane ability to spike, then I'd be plenty happy. But playing a Monk, I find myself wasting all my E casting PS... ;( Readem (talk *contribs ) 14:41, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Tottaly insane drop in hardmode
Just wanted to show this insane drop I got from Sskai in hard mode.



We all know that it is a good run if it drops green, but green + gold + purp + blue ?!

It was just a test run, to see how hard "hardmode" was. And tottal hit on the first try :) Gcardinal 01:49, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Nice. Very nice. I got me the best gold I've ever gotten on my first run - req 13 favor, 19/19 favor, Hale +29, Enchantments +20%. And from Ascalon. I'm not complaining about 1% either way, and my Favor's always at either 13 or 16 anyway. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:00, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've still been getting the same mostly crappy drops I got in normal mode, blah. I think in 3 hours of playing I got 1 gold(with non-max mods, from RoT no less), and a purple or 2, about the same ratio I get when playing through normal. Of the new items, I got 1 paragon tome and 2 lockpicks, no elite tome(the only new drop I really care about), no passage scrolls, nothing else of note. My best drop ever is still my half moon I got from a chest on normal Perdition Rock...max, req 8, 15^50, zealous, +29 HP. DKS01 02:25, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Been getting gold/purple drops all night in hard mode on Istan. I was actually disappointed when I got blue/dye drops.  ;)  That is a very nice drop you got though GC.  --Rainith 02:18, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I guess I should try somewhere else, the RoT really doesn't feel generous tonight. Although I did get Vanquishing Lightbringer so it's not a total loss. And I wish they'd fix the LB track so that rank 6 is Conquering Lightbringer, not Conquering Commander, it throws the whole naming scheme off and makes me not want to go for level 6:-/ Oh well, I can still go for Legendary Spearmarshal at least, that might be good to have anyways when those new Sunspear skills are eventually added... DKS01 02:25, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * But then there's no reference to Command and Conquer! :D 209.249.182.230 07:12, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, NO, this doesn't happen. I've farmed Sskai, Chkkr, Stonereaper, Xuekao and Arius in Hard Mode. Out of about 3-5 runs for EACH boss I got 1 green, TOTAL. Yes, I got a few golds and grapes along the way killing mobs. But based on your drop rate, I should have expected a lot more from my solo farming experience in hard mode so far. -- Blazeroth 13:01, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

You going solo or with a group?

Minor Edit about tameable pets
I've been working away at Vanquisher in Elona for the past few days, and noted that while tameable pets count towards vanquisher for an area (as the article indicated before I edited it) they only do so if you make them hostile, though target, AoE, etc. I haven't tested if you capture a pet on hard mode if it counts towards vanquisher or leaves it incomplete for the area, but I do know that if you leave the tamable pets alone, they DON'T count towards vanquisher. Of The Wojek 11:26, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I charmed a rat with my koss in mirror of lyss and i also compelted the vanquisher title in that area.--SkyHiRider 20:45, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Monks are invincible
Excuse me, but are you mad? I tried to do The Great Northern Wall and it was pretty easy, untill I met monks... 3 Grawls grouped together and they kept spamming skills for 10 energy WITHOUT ENERGY LOSS! How big is their energy regeneration? +7?! It's nearly impossible to kill them! &mdash; Abedeus   15:29, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * As I remember, PvE enemies cannot "run out" of energy, in the conventional sense. You can E-Drain them, and Mind Wrack will trigger, but they instantly regain some small portion of their energy.  If they have 5 energy spells, they can spam them indefinitely, which can get to be a tad annoying. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    15:50, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * C'mon, I suck at Guild Wars, and I managed to beat Great Northern Wall on my first try. The Grawl Ulodytes use Heal Area, so you're in no danger of death as you whack on 'em. Deep Wound them, save up your high damage skills, interrupt a Heal Area and then alpha strike them with everything you have. You can take them down pretty easily.
 * (We didn't even bring interrupts and it wasn't that tough.)
 * &mdash;Tanaric 16:00, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was soloing Stoneweaver boss in Altruum Ruins and it was very, very difficult (with a Rit). But after about 5 minutes of pounding away at it, the boss stopped spamming Shield of Regen (at 15 energy), and spammed only Reversal of Fortune. So I assume that while the bosses energy never ran out, it never gained enough to put SoR back up. Just my two cents on this. -- Blazeroth 13:05, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Bunching up? Nuke them, this game is full of AoE. &mdash; Skuld 16:01, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Also, Distracting Shot and Diversion are godly. –Ichigo724 16:09, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Farming
Is it just me or will this make many farming builds next to useless that actually fight people? Trapping builds and similar builds are safe and 55ing may or may not work better with the increased attack speed but with activation and recharge decreased interrupts might pose serious problems. But for builds like Build:D/Mo_130hp_Dervish will be somewhat useless because with lower drop rate in normal its not worth the time and all the other things in hard mode will make most things more difficult if not impossible.--Cursed Condemner 16:33, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * this is a bad thing? --  Vanessa 20:50, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Regular farming isn't anywhere near as useful, especially with the loot scaling, however boss farming is going to be big business if you can do it right. The most worthwhile things to farm regularly now are the lockpicks, dye, golds, and rare crafting materials.  Farming for gold and merchant fodder isn't as big a deal though. Cibi 03:34, 22 April 2007 (CDT)