Talk:Dunes of Despair (mission)

Locations
I just did this and all 3 generals were near point 1 on the map and there wasn't even a boss at point 2. Is this random or did the original writer just get confused?--Cloak of Letters 12:36, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I just did the mission with a group last week and we killed all three at point 1 and we didn't get the bonus. Even thought the few times I did the bonus, we did find them all at position 1. I am not sure what is going on. --Karlos 17:37, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Did you get the nonbosses too?--Cloak of Letters 21:52, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)

Exploit
This is an exploit, not an alternative method, and recently, I went with two groups who tried it and both failed to find a single corpse (you can't use the Enchanteds for Necrotic Traversals and they seem to have moved the Jade Scarabs to the other side of the bridge). Are you sure this still works? Have you tried it recently? --Karlos 17:37, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I did it just before posting. I didn't see it come out of the ground but there was a scarab running around in range. I guess you just need to get lucky.--Cloak of Letters 21:52, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * A couple of weeks ago, a group I was in tried the approach of not bringing ghost to the altar and trying to kill/lure monsters at the southern raised drawbridge. In a half dozen times, we could only find one within range of a caster or bowman once or twice, and they didn't 'pull', they only scurried off. User Queen of Spades 128.252.10.27 05:11, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * I just tried this tonight with a group and couldn't find any spawns within range. This must just be a lucky spawn. - SilentVex
 * This was previously possible, but not anymore. It was changed a long time ago. Now they only rarely spawn in range and will run away if attacked. I'll update the artcile when I have the bosses explored. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 09:10, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Its now again possible to kill the first boss before lowering the bridge. Dunno when it was broken again. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:17, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I tried it today twice, both time this boss group behind the south gate was FAR outta range of my flat/longbow.... seems this got fixed some way :\ HJT 11:05, 14 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I also tried 2-3 times and met with the same results - the boss group was beyond the range of my longbow. However, the impression I get from reading some online forums is to look for a group of Jade Scarabs that may randomly spawn near the south door; it is suggested using PBAoE or PBAoEDD spells to bring them out. --DaveBaggins 18:35, May 14 2006 (CST)
 * I just did it a couple of days ago. An E/N in our group used necrotic traversal or consume corpse (not sure which) to get past the south draw gate and killed 2 bosses before starting the timer. --thecount June 22 06
 * Tried a couple of times to do the timer exploit but not a single monster in range, does anyone know how to uncover the map an do the bonus without running skills (I'm a necro)? Samael 14:55, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

"Could someone confirm this"
I just removed the "Could someone confirm this" note from the Bonus objective. I recently did the mission and I hereby confirm that the Bonus objective is right.

Goss Aleesh
The Bosses and Elite Skills section should be updated. Instead of Ayassah Hess, I found Goss Aleessh. --DaveBaggins 09:54, Feb 12 2006 (CST)

Staff of slow
not exactly sure where, but there is an object in this mission called the staff of slow You can pick it up and hold it (you get the drop item button)

when dropped, it radiates as slow area spell any mob entering the circle wil move very slow

We did the mission pretty easy that way :)
 * It's already in the article -- it's called the Slow Totem. --Bishop 19:05, 2 March 2006 (CST)

location of generals for bonus
The map is wrong: all 3 generals are in the southern fort. you only need to head south, not east and west --
 * The numbers on the map do not represent the locations of the generals. They are mearly reference points.  Read the walkthrough of the bonus, as it clarifies the information. --161.88.255.140 15:32, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * That clears it up! I always thought the generals were in the 3 forts.. didn't read the text that well. I still think the image is incorrect though because it suggests that the green path is the bonus path and the 3 points are the 3 generals. What do the points represent if they do not represent the generals? Only point 2 is referenced in the text. This is a hard mission and I think this image only confuses people... --82.73.178.173 05:55, 19 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The image should be updated. I uploaded the original (back then I thought the generals were there), I'll see if I can get around to uploading another, but don't hesitate to do your own one. --Karlos 06:00, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

Missing bosses
There are some bosses missing. There is atleast a warrior boss at the south fort. --Gem 04:43, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The nature of the mission makes it hard to explore fully.. You can't go out and explore the bosses and leave the ghost with henchies, so you'll need to get other players with you. I agree there is a warrior boss, and judging by the other 2 desert missions, there has to be a ranger in the southeast fort. --Karlos 05:13, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I am arranging an exploration group with Kalomeli and 2 other friends to reveal the mysteries of the bosses. This will need a few tries to get all of the bosses and SoC confirmations. (And to be sure of the spawn locations) I will create a new map for the mission at the same time. The current one is very misleading. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 05:35, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * First try, everything went well. Killed the first mesmer boss ofcourse, then the elementalist which was too close to the centre before we took the hero to the altar, then the ranger which attacks to the Hero and then the warr and necro at the southern base. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:17, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Locations are rotating. The warrior boss often attacks in the missions I played while the ranger dude is found just outside the bonus fortress (where the exploit used to be). --Karlos 21:00, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I kenw they rotated, but didn't know that the one attacking the fort changed. I have always had the ranger attack and I have done the mission many times. Are there some differences between the possible locations? Atleast some bosses are in some places more often. I have never seen the monk. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 03:38, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, I found the monk atlast. Any bosses can spawn at the southern fort, but I have only seen the ranger, warrior and necromancer attack the fort. I assume that the others might rarely attack too.
 * I also have the area fully explored (There is a huge empty area in the east. I might have been the first man there ever :P ) Only a few square millimeters missing from the western fort, but I couldn't get in. I need to kill the Enchanteds in front of it first. I am not sure if there are bosses in the west and east forts, but I have to check it. After I get to the western fort I will submit a new better map. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:50, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

Custscene Dialog
This is the first mission on which I've started to add cutscene dialog (original discussion). Please feel free to review, discuss, correct or improve what I have done so far. --IAmAI 06:57, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

Bonus Description Wrong?
I'm following the current bonus description, and appears as if the mission has perhaps been changed. After the rounds of arcanists, the westward charge to get the two groups leaves a group of enchanted bowmen to the south that move in to attack the hero. I'm going to try staying closer until the west group, south group, and boss group are dealt with and see if that yields better luck.--66.92.73.217 18:30, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm having trouble understanding what issue you are having.- 18:53, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * There are 4 rounds of arcanists (east, south, west, then east again). According to the bonus description, you then take out the group of enchanted at the west bridge, and then head a little further ("towards point 2") to take out the boss group. There's also a group of enchanted bowmen to the south that show up at about the same time as that first group of enchanted on the bridge.  If you head further west to take the boss group, the ghostly hero gets wiped by the bowmen every time.  Killing the bowmen allowed me to proceed toward the fort, but didn't leave enough time to kill the generals.--66.92.73.217 19:44, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

Bonus and current AI?
With the current (Nov '06) AI most of the bonus strategies are unlikely to be successful. First, the seige wurms never break agro with the ghostly hero. Previously the would stop attacking him once you were out of their agro, now their agro appears to include the 'throne' the ghostly hero must hold for 10 minutes. Once the wurms spawn they will continue to attack him and if you leave him without a healer he will die long before the time runs out. The other change has to do with kiting. The forgotten generals kite like mad, unless you can pin them 100% they will agro a ton of the jade scarabs buried every couple of feet outside of the 'castle'. This makes going outside the 'castle' to kill the last incoming group highly inadvisable and it makes doing the secondary the "normal" way difficult at absolute best. Basically the necrotic traversal 'trick' has become the only way of getting the secondary with any degree of certainty. -- 127.0.0.0

...Moreover this bonus can no longer be done with henchmen. Period. As far as I know this is the only bonus in game which is 100% in need of human assistance. Not even Heroes would help out. Things that need to be done:

-Leave a healer behind to attend to the Ghostly Hero.

Problematic, as party size is only 6, and most PUGs can only grab one or two monks.

-Kill or interrrupt all 3 siege wurms.

Need 3 good Mesmers or Rangers; probably have to be humans. Can a party of three take out the Forgotten generals?

-Work fast.

Like most missions, this one got harder because monsters are smarter. The statement, "having over six minutes left" really doesn't apply anymore unless you're in a very good party that is well prepared. (Besides, you must wait for the last wave from the West, due to Jade Scarabs).

Even just the mission itself is hard with henchies; the siege wurms out-damage both healer henchmen in the final minutes, leading to near-wipe. It's sad really. Personally I think the change to Siege Wurm aggro has something to do with the new Wurms from Nightfall. I think it is an oversight and not intentional...the mission and bonus are just way too difficult now. Nearly the hardest in the game, period...harder than Glint, even. And that's just not right. Especially since this is a "required" mission to advance the storyline.

Perhaps there are some new countermeasures out there that have just not been discovered yet. Some new 'tricks' for this bonus and mission. That seems only fair... 24.6.147.36 02:26, 17 November 2006 (CST)(Entropy)


 * I have tried leaving Dunkoro with the Ghostly Hero, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anywhere to leave him where the wurms won't eventually pound him into the sand before they move on to the Ghostly Hero. The best I've managed was to kill all of the generals and have only two of the enchanted left before the Ghostly Hero wiped. Mind you, I probably only got that far because the spawn was such that I could wipe the first general and his enchanted before the timer started. Dunkoro dies surprisingly quickly under wurm fire, the hero monks seem to place self-healing at a very low priority, so leaving Dunkoro behind only buys you a minute or so before the Ghostly Hero dies.


 * As for killing or interrupting the wurms, I just don't see it. Killing them would take too long, interrupting them would tie up half your team -- it'd be unlikely you'd have enough firepower left to take out the generals, their enchanted, and whatever scarabs joined the fun.


 * The only way I can see the secondary being halfway doable at the moment is either you have an excellent group and a lot of luck -- an unlikely combination in this game -- or you use the necrotic traversal trick. I think you could probably even do it using heroes. Kill something, necrotic traversal yourself over, switch your heroes to vampiric weapons, rebirth them. Alternatively, make all of your heroes a necro secondary and keep grabbing and killing scarabs so each of them can necrotic traversal over. It'd be a massive PITA, but it should be doable.


 * It appears to me that there was no real thought given to how the AI changes would effect missions in previous chapters. I suspect said changes have probably messed up a number of missions, especially any with a time component. It's hard to see how they could mess up a mission much more than this one, though. The secondary on this one was always a bit of a PITA, but it was doable even with henchies -- I've done it several times. Now you really have to stretch things to even call it doable, it's certainly not what I'd call reasonable. I hope they fix it, just fixing the wurm agro would make all the difference, but, frankly, I'm not going to hold my breath. -- 127.0.0.0


 * Well, the peculiar thing is that this is the only mission in Prophecies which has been messed up badly. I've recently played through every mission and bonus (through Hell's Precipice) and while monsters in general are harder due to improved AI...there are no disastrous changes like in this mission. So it seems to be an isolated case.


 * Also - I've found that if you kill the first wurm that pops up (after 4 waves of Forgotten Arcanist), things almost return to a doable state. I managed to defeat two generals (first one using longow method) and minions plus some Jade Scarabs. However, the Ghostly Hero was overwhelmed by the "mystery group" of foes that sometimes spawns as you head towards the fort. If not for them I would have been able to do the bonus. My theory is that they trigger (sometimes) after you clear the first General and all his minions. I still had maybe 1:30 left...I could have done the bonus! ...But, yes, it seems it is still doable. You've got to be fast though, and bring lots of armor-ignoring damage for that Wurm. And it really is very difficult overall...luck needs to be on your side.


 * Here's a tenative build for doing it with hench...Mesmer primary would work best, but an Energy Storage-oriented Elementalist/Mesmer works also. All points should go to Domination, Energy Storage or Fast Casting, and leftovers to Inspiration. Equip: Energy Surge (elite), Energy Burn, Wastrel's Worry, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration, Shatter Enchantment, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Enchantment. Versus Enchanted, Wurms, and Centaurs, use the first three for armor-ignoring damage. Use the two interrupts to stop Wurm Siege. Versus Forgotten Arcanists, remove as many enchantments as possible and save interrupts for Earthquake. Finally, for the Generals, use Wastrel's Worry since the duration needed is reduced to about 1 second. Bring Alesia, Lina, Orion, Little Thom, and Stefan. Cross your fingers...24.6.147.36 14:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)(Entropy)


 * Tested, works like a charm - wurms go down in less than 30 seconds. I would have gotten bonus except I was treated to the stupid Monk general, Dassk Arossyss, who kited like mad. Didn't even pull the first General with a Longbow, either. So I guess the bonus is still doable, but nevertheless needs a very specialized build and high coordination. Plus luck.


 * Aye, that mesmer build helped me too. I didn't take care of the worms though, the damage they did to the ghostly hero was minimal. I just ignored them. Went as dervish and took protter hero, interrupt+poison ranger hero with me + mesmer hero with that build above (rest: necro npc and Alesia npc). The monk boss is annoying, even with balthasar form active he's just as fast and still manages to run away >:( Whatever, got him anyway aswell as the rest. Bonus success, mission failure ;) The running after the chicken monk boss took too much time. Suppose a long lasting cripple skill like Pin Down would help there. (Lilly, 23. November 2006)


 * I managed to complete the bonus with heros/henchies. No specialized build.  I equipped Dunkoro with Heal Area and left him with the Ghostly Hero.  It works for the most part, but you do have to keep an eye on his skill bar to make sure he uses it.--66.215.48.110 01:37, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * Not owning Nightfall, I have not been able to use Heroes; however, every single time I try the bonus the "old fashioned way", the Ghostly Hero gets annihlated by Wurm Siege. I don't understand why for some folks it doesn't deal much damage...
 * In any case I managed to complete the bonus with all henchmen! It's difficult though...Need to use Necrotic Traversal or Consume Corpse, then lure and kill all three Generals. Since they kite like mad it takes forever...plus, only the Archer henchman has the range to assist in the kills (usually). It took me at least an hour, thanks to two generals having healing skills (Orison, Aura of Restoration). But, it's possible. :) Still it seems unfair, because so far the consensus is that to get the bonus you need to do one of the following:


 * 1) You must have Nightfall, and thus Heroes.


 * 2) You must "cheat the clock" via the Necrotic Traversal trick.


 * 3) You must have at least two human players to deal with improved Siege Wurm range.


 * And this is not fair, because this is the only Prophecies mission/bonus that can't be done with all Henchmen. Even if you use the "trick" it's not fair; players shouldn't have to rely on exploits to complete something that used to be doable without exploits. Where is the "challenge" or "skill" in using the Necrotic Traversal + Rebirth trick? Lastly, the problem is that if you're not a Necromancer or Assassin primary or secondary, and you haven't Ascended/Weh No Su etc to change professions, you can't even use the Trick. Thus preventing you from getting the bonus without Heroes or human help. It's just unfair. *end rant*
 * ...And while I'm at it, you have to use Necrotic Traversal trick to explore the entire map; there is a huge section to the southeast that is not part of the mission. That's not fair either, since it counts towards the title. Entropy 22:35, 25 November 2006 (CST)