Talk:GWFreaks

This is blatant self-advertizement. --Karlos 17:02, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

GuildWiki should decide if they want or not and article on the most popular guild wars character builder... there is always many link to GWFreaks in other page in this site. --Zyo 17:06, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree - blatant self-advertising; but it's also a useful tool. We should either completely re-write (can be greatly condensed to just a couple paragraphs, no need for a GWfreaks user manual here); or create a generic "build organizer" article that references this tool as one of a few that are available and reliable.
 * On a legal note, the icon used in this article may have trademark issues around it. Their site gives two bar-shaped icons for linking, which contain part of the icon graphic as well as the site name.  IF any icon is used here, I recommend using one of their allowed linking graphics. --161.88.255.140 17:08, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Agreed. I wouldn'd mind keeping the article (as it seems to be a popular tool, after all we also have an article about voice chat, which at least mentions other 3rd party software, too). But if we do, we should trim it down a lot. This isn't supposed to be a manual for that software but a short summary of what it does. And a link to the official homepage, of course. :) --84-175 (talk) 17:14, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Oh my oh my. Hard decisions. I like this tool very much, but we have already decided not to hold articles for fansites or guilds, so why would we accept one for a fanprogram? As much as I would like everyone to know about the program, I still vote for deleting this article for the same reasons as all fansite and guild articles have been removed. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 17:09, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * While it may be blatant advertisement, it is also a program that many people use. I say keep it and stick it in the Software category.  (The icon may have to go tho.)  --Rainith 17:12, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * To me, we should base how to handle this article the same as Teamspeak and Ventrillo, rather than how we handle guilds and fansites. --161.88.255.140 17:14, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Additng to the pileon: As far as I am concerned, the decision is easy: NO. Your program already has enough exposure on gwonline. Guild Wiki is about the game Guild Wars, not about some incidental utility. An article about it on guildwiki by the author of the program is a self-promotion. The last time someone tried to do any self-promotion here, guildwiki nearly collapsed in a miasma of hatred, and the perpetrator that time was the very person who runs this site!


 * Now about your side point that there are many mentions of gwfreaks from guildwiki: (a) you're wrong: aside from this article there is exactly one mention of it on GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Builds/archive 1, which you'll note is an archive of a discussion page, and (b) any mention can simply be accompanied with an external link to your program's website. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

I agree with Karlos, and with not knowing this program, to me it would seem like another try to rip me of my account name and password. if this is becoming a vote, I vote as Gem. Foo 17:10, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * As of the last time I used it, you didn't enter you account info into it. Been quite a while tho.  --Rainith 17:12, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Many gw "enhancing" programs will monitor your keyboard to capture your account details, and probably your mail ones, in order to remove and controll your account. I understand this one is known, but when another one will be advertised here, it's enough for one player to lose his account before a slow revert, to unjustify this kind of pages. Foo 17:18, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * We've long had links to Ventrilo and Teamspeak as part of the voice chat article. Aren't they basically the same?  Changing how we handle things now should also impact how those useful tools are listed. --161.88.255.140 17:21, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Key differences -- those articles were not written by the authors of Ventrilo and TS, they weren't user manuals for Vent or TS, and TS and Ventrilo have a life independent of Guild Wars and its fansites. Furthermore, Anet themselves recommend TeamSpeak and gave subscriptions to it in their GWP collector's editions. That alone blesses an article on TeamSpeak as noteworthy. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 17:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * there exist programs taht can keylog AND take screenshot (in case you have GW memorize your login), so the only safe way to run third party programs in general is to run it on a separate machine that's not connected to the internet. Now, in the specific case of GWFreaks, because it has been around for a long time, I'm willing to believe it is legit, but I won't vouch for it.  Perhaps bad things can simply be introduced in the next version after it has build up enough trust, OR someone could put up an altered version of the program (with keyloggers and such) on their own site, claiming to be a "mirror" of the real (and clean) version of GWFreaks, etc etc.  I think we should process third-party programs like fansites and stuff, use one overarching article, with disclaimers and stuff. -PanSola 17:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think disclaimers and stuff are not enough here. there should be more responsibility taken towards our users. I dont want this comunity telling someone "we warned you" after he lost an account. Foo 17:30, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * It might have a keylogger, but I have my firewall block the program (Firewall hasn't ever told me that the program is trying to access the internet, so probably it won't try), so no worries for me. I also don't have the program on when I log into GW. I still vote for deletion, but I might be ok with handling it like Vent and TS now. Then we should also add The Edge. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 17:25, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * PanSola - That could be said of any program on your computer. Easy way to check too, use a firewall program, do not let the GWFreaks program access the internet, period.  Don't let it check for updates, do that manually, and there are no major worries.  (Gem beat me to it there.)  --Rainith 17:27, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Nothing is "easy to check". without being a security wizard, I can say that any of those programs can easely bypass it by using IE, netscape or firefox, in order to send those details without being firewalled. I am sure there are many more ways. Foo 17:32, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Most of your better firewalls today would catch those types of tricks. --161.88.255.140 17:33, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I use Sygate Personal Firewall, which is free. It notices application hijacking and asks permission for all processes for internet access (even windows' own processes). I recommend it to everyone. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 17:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * You're right. I'm revoking my vote from above. I say we keep one general article about 3rd party programs that expecitly warns about the damger of keyboard loggers and the like, not mentioning any specific programs at all. While this may be unfair towards some good programs out there, I see it as the best option. --84-175 (talk) 17:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * That seems reasonable. Create a single third-party software article, with one sentence descriptions of each product, as well as a list of disclaimers and user-be-ware type stuff on it.  Migrate all the voice chat links, as well as any other relevant ones to that article.  Who wants to implement (I'm short on time today, or I would)? --161.88.255.140 17:28, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I'll have to agree with 84.175 about not mentioning any specific programs at all, with the exception of programs Anet has names. Foo 17:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It's your decision to remove the article... I wrote it but I guest it's not a good place to host information about it... If you beleive that only gwonline have accept gwfreaks open your eye (maybe search over google) and it's not a fan site tool... First GWFreaks is not linked with any fan site, full open xml database and template and is translated into 13 languages... who did that ever before? -Zyo 18:28, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Your specific claim was that "there is always many link to GWFreaks in other page in this site". There isn't. Either you didn't write what you meant, or you are mistaken. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 17:31, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build bring 500+ referal per month... -Zyo 18:35, 24 April 2006 (EST)


 * Your claim was that gwfreaks is linked from "many link" in this site. That is simply false. One link. On one page. That is the extent of exposure guildwiki has given your site and program. If you do not like that, I am sure we can remove the link. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 17:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Your right, I've check this morning the referal and saw 2 pages from Wiki... so I wrote an article. I just catch that both build and builds is the same page. As you can see there: http://www.gwfreaks.com/current/#ref
 * A) Zyo, careful with your edits - DO NOT erase other peoples posts in discussion pages.
 * B) The post that was removed: ":::The fact that another article links to it does not remove the concerns or eliminate the need for discussion. If anything, it emphasizes the need for this discussion."
 * --161.88.255.140 17:44, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * As stated earlier I might accept something done with this like with Vent and TS, but I dsagree with having the link at the builds page. I have never noticed it there before and if no one disagrees soon I will remove it. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 17:45, 24 April 2006 (CDT)