User talk:Tupu/Build Archive/Build:Team - Underworld trapping

Rate-a-Build
This build was widely accepted a long time ago by the community and it's one of the highly used UW team builds. It was marked tested long before the current voting process. Nevertheless it was recently changed to untested, so I'll just put this vote here. I normally say "Screw the byrocracy when it sucks", but let's play by the crappy rules this time.

Please test and vote on 

Tested (favored):
 * 1) Definitely works and is great fun, although not the fastest possible stuff. The guide is well written and a lot of time has been put to tet the stuff and write the guide. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:47, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) I have trapped with Gem for long time and this is a great build. Kalomeli 17:55, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * 3) This shouldn't need the Rate-a-Build.  It's the whole package. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 18:05, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * 4) Made a new ranger and bought a second account just to do this and she'll be getting a present on the 25th ;p &mdash; Skuld 03:22, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * 5) Amazing build, very in-depth , nice guide. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.111.11 (contribs).

Unfavored:
 * 1) (your vote)

Credit
DragonWR12LB, taking credit is not appropriate on a wiki. Though the original work may be yours, it will be re-written and edited ruthlessly over time, making it no longer "yours". If you do not want your work to be treated as such, it should not be contributed to a wiki. --Kiiron 06:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Comments from a veteran trapper
I've been trapping in the UW for a few months now, and would like to suggest an effective minimalist build that a group of us have been honing over a long time. I wrote a post on it for gwonline (link) during guildwiki's downtime in December. That post, like this article, is optimized for Smite Crawler/Spider runs.

There is a lot more to the UW than just the Vale and the Ice Wastes, though. My old all-ranger guild has cleared the UW with 8-ranger teams, and, contrary to popular belief, it is possible to trap Mindblade Spectres and Dead Threshers/Collecters. The Dead Threshers are the hardest UW mobs to trap, in fact, because they don't pull well and are excellent FoC spikers. BION, the next hardest to trap are Behemoths, though they fall quickly to Insight/Conjure Barragers. Almost everything else in the UW is a walk in the park with trappers, though. Dryders? Winter + traps. Charged Blacknesses? Choking gas + traps. The so-called hardest quests in the UW -- Horsemen, Ice King and Spawning Pools -- are very doable with trapper teams.

I understand that this article is about a "farm" build, but (and this is probably a foolish belief of mine) there is surely more to the PvE game than endless farming! And there is surely more to trapping than UW farming and trapway!

&mdash; Deldda Kcarc (former guildwiki member, though I've lost my password)
 * Hmm, if your build is slightly different, post it in here under "variations". If it is very difficult, make a new build article. --Xeeron 18:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invitation, but I'm not sticking my neck into editing articles on this wiki again. I do not agree with the sysop(s) and policies here; and, although I'm very tempted to write up my ideal trapping builds and strategies, guildwiki will not be my medium. My comments above were possibly of no use to anyone, but such is the nature of idle commentary. &mdash; Deldda Kcarc 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Meter
In what way is a Meter defined? How much Meters is the agro circle radius?? 21:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have removed all mentions of meters. Everything is better now. No one understood them anyway. 21:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

RE new green weapons added
A common mis-conception for trappers, 10/10 weapons are absolutely useless, its fast recharge with SPELLS ;) 06:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Why are you smiling then?, [ should I roll it back then? 06:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * revised it. time will tell if those items will be cheap enough to be worth anything here. 06:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Black lines
Is it just me, or does the black anonymity lines completely ruin the images for anyone else? I'd much rather the article didn't have any images than those monstrosities... -- 18:46, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * You mean the black areas in the first two images? I don't like them either. I could possibly take new images of my own and photoshop any names nicely out of them so that no one knows the difference. 18:59, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Yes, those are the ones I'm referring to. And that would be nice. -- 19:01, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Ok, I took a new picture for the second one. It isn't as good as it could, but I was the puller, so... The black thing is actually from the traps, so I didn't photoshop it out. I will take a new version of the first one next time as I forgot it now. And thanks for editing the table. It was very ugly, but I didn't have time for better before our UW run.  00:57, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Ok. Some new screenshots taken yesterday. I will put them here soon. 21:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

Farming?
I am not that sure if this build should be listed as a farming build. It sure is used to farm, but the article is now very large and includes nice options to make the build used for anything possible in the Underworld. I would recommend moving it to PvE builds instead of Farming builds. 22:15, 20 March 2006 (CST)


 * Just had a very similar discussion here. My stance is: If the big majority of uses for this build will be farming, it should be in the farming category. However I am no FoW specialist. If you know that this is not mainly used for farming, go ahead and move it. --Xeeron 04:46, 21 March 2006 (CST)


 * See also: Category talk:Farming Builds &mdash; Stabber 04:52, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Example skill bar of a non-puller
Its a nice enough image and I'm sure the more sensible of the article readers will hunt down the relevant skills to make it, but I was thinking perhaps use one of those "slim line" skill bars instead to replace this image and give it more use as an image it isn't that useful. --Jamie 06:29, 19 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Slim line skill bars? What are those? Btw, I don't actually like the build shown as it has both QZ and SQ. SQ should be replaced with Whirling Defense or something. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 06:53, 19 May 2006 (CDT)


 * look at User:Fenris page he has a slim line skills bar --Jamie 07:15, 19 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Scalable ones, no wonder you have no idea what he's on about! Skuld  07:17, 19 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Aye, scalable bars. I think that putting one build as a wiki code skill bar would make it look more as 'the one' build which is proposed. I prefer the current image. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 07:20, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

Multi-campaign build?!?
I protest!! this build worked fine before factions. I see no reason what so ever to taint it with factions skills. that was exactly what I feared before factions came out. adding options for factions skills should be ok, but that does not make the build Multi-campaign. Foo 18:37, 21 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, I added a prophecies only tag to this, but Staber removed it. Lets reopen discussion. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 22:31, 21 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually I did not take the time to read the whole article. There are faction skills in there, so it definitly IS a multi-campaign build. If a variant works with prophecies skills only, it is a prophecies build at the same time. Then simply add Category:Prophecies builds. --Xeeron 05:05, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * What if the build only works if you have Prophecies and can also use a few skills from other campaigns? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 06:52, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Then it should be taged as a prophecies build, with a section on alternative factions skills. Foo 09:20, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Then this is a Prophecies build. The Factions skills are only as list of optional skills. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 09:30, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * It depends on whether you think the variant with factions skills is important. If it is redundant, the build is a prophecies build (meaning it uses prophecies skills only). If the factions skills are important, it is multi-campaign (meaning it uses skills from both campaigns) as well. --Xeeron 11:23, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks for clarifying. At its current state the Prophecies skills are the important ones, not the Factions skills. If someone creates a Factions variant, I would even suggest creating a new build page for it. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 11:59, 22 June 2006 (CDT)

Ritualist + Faction skills
I have read the guide partially, and because i'm working on a factions r/rt trapper right now i have some things to add about the options made available by faction skills, First of all i'd like to point out some ritualist skills that help a lot during trapping. (as a side note, i have never trapped uw before, but i trapped during other things and basically laying the traps stays the same i guess). for example the rt skill Mighty Was Vorizun is a very big help during the laying of the traps, these ashes give you + 20 energy, which is more than you get from a max dmg staff with perfect insightfull, and they will give you +15 armor, which is a major help if ur surprised by patrolls. I'd also thing skills like Displacement and Union come in handy if you find yourself in a situation where enemies attack you. Secondly I'd like to point out some faction ranger skills that come in handy when used in combination with traps, take for example Brambles which makes bleeding when knockdown, combine this skill with Spike Trap and you have a trap that does bleeding as wel as knockdown and crippling. also a nature ritual that is worth thinking about is Lacerate which will add substantially to the damage recieved when a foe is bleeding, the only drawback is that the trapper have to watch out during the end of the ritual because they can get bleeding themselves. Most people see snare as quite a useless skill, but in some situations it might come in handy. Of course then there are the factions skills already named in the guide (trappers focus, vipers nest etc.) but i won't talk about those. This is a remark not specifically for UW trapping, but there are no other trapper guides to bring this matter to attention.
 * Brambles and Snare: are you forgetting Barbed Trap? &mdash; Skuld 02:48, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Brambles and Snare aren't usefull as we allready have Barbed Trap in the build. What comes to the ritualist spirits and ashes spells, there is a note saying that they might be usefull. If we add every single okay skill to the list, the list will need it's own article soon.
 * A little note on Mighty Was Vorizun: It costs 5 energy to cast and adds 20 energy. It lasts only a limited time, not the whole trapping time. A 15 energy staff is more usefull than the skill. Displacement might be nice, but Union is totally useless when the enemy hit for 200-300 dmg. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:40, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Factions and Nightfall introduced staffs with +20 energy. Caths 05:02, 16 December 2006 (CST)

NF P/ + D/ Optionals
I have not tried a single one of these skills out, I am just spitballing here.

A note on Paragon Skills is that they have the Signet of Return, satisfying the ressurect slot. Other possible Paragon Skills: Song of Concentration: This is good for when the aggro goes poorly and a quick Dust Trap could save the team. Song of Power : This could aid in initial process of traps, In Smaller teams maybe. "Fall Back!":/"Make Haste!"/"Lead the Way!" : Helpful for the puller and when things go sour.

Dervish Skills(I didn't look to hard): Avatar of Balthazar: {E} I know, it may come in handy for the puller if the group can take the loss of a trap.

If nothing else I hope to bring some interest into this idea.Just Frag Me 23:21, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * There is a reason that none of these skills are in the article. There is no need to make a list of anything that is mostly useless. There are atleast a hundred skills which could sometimes be usefull, but I think that we should only include skills which are usefull on most trapping runs or which give a huge benefit when venturing into some of the deeper areas. (eg. Barrage + pet is great in Twin Serpents)
 * The Dervish elite wastes the elite slot for a pulling skill. not good as pulling is fairly easy without. The paragon shouts only buff the pullers speed, but evasion is more usefull. Speed is rarely needed as a speed boosted runner might even run too fast and the mob returns to their original location.
 * The energy regeneration skill prevents setting traps at the same time so it wont speed the trapping process. Song of Concentration might actually be good, but remember that even if the initial traps fail, the enemies are blinded from the initial dust traps and have been knocked down, so you can freely set a new Dust Trap without fear of being interrupted.
 * Nice job thinking of new skills though. It's great that others care to take the time too, but remember that you don't _need_ to find more skills. In the beginning I often noticed that I tried to list all of the skills which would give even a small benefit, but the trappers can only take 8 skills, so only the best skills should be listed. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 05:12, 24 November 2006 (CST)

Trapper's Speed
For those who do this kind of thing, Trapper's Speed vastly outperforms Serpent's Quickness in terms of the number of traps you can lay down before your Lvl 11 QZ expires (specificly, I can get 14 on a bar with 4 traps- I think it's 9 with SQ). Of course, this comes with a huge mana cost, so I would recommend you only leverage it if you are using a 12+4/12+3/4 skillbar. Serpent's Quickness obviously can be beneficial to a hybrid puller though as it effects their TU and WD. -- Oblio (talk) 10:30, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * To alleviate Trapper's Speed energy costs, one can pack one of the +20 energy staves for Faction or Nightfall. Caths 12:29, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Brambles
Another good spirit to pack is Brambles (Faction) whose effects are triggered by Spike Trap. Caths 12:31, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Runes
What is the best combination of runes? I think Superior Vigor (Maj or Minor if you're poor), and Superior WS is a must but what about the new Rune of Attunement? Should trappers get three of these since they stack? Or two of those with a minor expertise? Energy is always better right? What about the puller should they get Runes of Vitae? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by DragonWR12LB (contribs).
 * I use sup Vigor, sup Wilderness, minor Expertise and 2 Attunements. The extra 20 hp from 2 Vitaes isn't helpfull at all compared to the 4 energy from the Attunements. I'm not sure if the expertise rune is better than an attunement rune, but I'll juut stick to it so that I don't need to get a nother armor piece to keep my other builds working. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 02:05, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * I always use Sup Vigor, Sup Wilderness, and Sup Expertise when trapping. My general thoughts is that health is not too important since cows are going to kill you in 2 hits regardless. With that setup, and a +20e staff, I never run out of energy in either role, so I don't think Attunements are necessary. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * Actually it is possible to survive 2 hits, using the rune setup I use and wielding a +60hp staff while pulling. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:36, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Haha! I thought this was the speed trapper build I was commenting on. Anyway, any build without TS will not be energy intensive enough to require 15 Exp. In that case, or in the puller case, I think Sup's other than WS are superfluous. When I do 3/4 man, and I leave on my SupExp (I have a swappable armor peice for that rune), I never get below half energy. The only build which I think almost requires SupExp is the A-Mimic Dust Trap Echo build. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 11:57, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Recent nerfs
i thought the traps were nerfed recently, only doing a fraction of the damage cost, so the most effective ones now would be the Dust Trap Echo trappers because they still do alot of damage