Talk:Allegiance rank

Friend of the Kurzicks
Friend of the Kurzicks does not seem to be character based but account based, can anyone comfirm this for luxons aswell?
 * By defenision, it's Faction based, and Faction points are account based. wwwtp. Foo 18:02, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

Allegiance Titles
Just wondering, whats the source for the allegiance titles? Im sure theres atleast steward as I know a guy whos not far from it, but there is no way anyone has gotten to 5mil faction. Its just hard to comprehend anyone ever getting to 10mil.. And as a side note, if I ever did, I'd damn well show that title rather than kind of a big deal.


 * No one has yet gotten the 10 mil, because we don't know the stage after it or if it's the max level. If someone gets 10 mil, he either sees the next level or sees that it is the max level. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:47, 25 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Top guild in our alliance has 3.5 million faction and they are only 40 people. They are like addictive Faction farmers. I would not be surprised if someone like that amassed 5 million faction on one account. --Karlos 11:38, 25 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok some of these titles are false. I know that “Gladiator of the Kurzicks” had to be changed to “Champion of the Kurzicks” as that is the next title after Defender is Champion. As for the Savior of the Kurzicks I have no idea if that the next title, how you got that name or found it’s maxed title.


 * Savior http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7306/saviorofthekurzicks2hm5.jpg


 * I got 1 savior in my alliance.I dont know how to make a link but go to sinsalliance.com and go to photos theres a screenshoot


 * saw this over at http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Allegiance_rank for luxon: http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5999/gw964ml5.png 216.147.215.194 01:47, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Friend of both?
Is it possible to be a friend of both sides (i.e. join one side and level up the title and then switch guilds to one on the other side and do the same for that side)

Yes, but most people probebly wouldn't.Link title--68.192.188.142 07:05, 8 December 2006 (CST)

Increments of 5000?
I am fairly certian that faction can only be transfered in incriments of 5000 at the faction transfer NPC. However, I came across a screenshot that shows 2250 faction towards a title. Can anyone explain how this works. It is possible that the screenshot is edited. Here is the link: []. -Zak

Well I for one, am always about having just the right umber for the titles (stopped at 15k sunspear points, 1,337,500 XP before dying). I'm afraid to say that when Factions just came out, if you had the other type of faction in your bar and donated 5k, it wouldn't just take that from you, but it would start to fill your bar a bit of whatever you had. I currently have 175,090 faction with the Kurzicks due to that bug. --IxI Raiden IxI 13:52, 17 December 2006 (CST)


 * I wish it was still there, I'd have more faction from the times I temporarly joined another faction Randomtime 09:00, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Trading vs Transferring
Does anyone know if trading faction for amber chunks / jadeite shards counts towards the title? --Alaris 13:46, 23 February 2007 (PST)
 * It does not. Only transferring to your alliance counts. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   14:06, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * It does now according to the update notes.

New Ranks
The update from a few minutes ago completely changed the title track! We need some updates ASAP! -- Kirbman 18:14, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Great job! That was fast =D --[[Image:DualAttack.png]] Kirbman 18:27, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yep, all done Vezz 18:33, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Not yet, they changed how you can gain points as well, need to update that as well Smarty100044@msn.com 20:07, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

lolol
Its funny how little I know about AB in general. I didn't even know these titles existed... Readem (talk *contribs ) 18:33, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * ^ewww AB nub. Solus  [[Image:DiscipleSymbol2.jpg|19px]] 22:07, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Now there are ways to continuously get faction in PvE, so AB is not a necessity (just faster). 12.215.214.71 21:57, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

god damn rediculous
okay, to max these out is goddamn rediculous. it takes a year or so of FFFing to max out kurzick, luxon is even harder. it takes about a week of 30 min sessions to max out sunspear skills /hate - Skakid9090 22:59, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * What about the rest of us who didn't donate faction but traded for amber instead? They wait until just now to add this way to continue the title track. They should give us the faction we deserve for the title from before the update. >:( -- L u i g i  [[Image:Luigi shodansig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:23, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Not that I totally disagree with you there, but how do you propose they track that? SarielV 22:18, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, when they added Cartographer titles they counted how much you had already explored before the title system. D: Besides, if you mouse over your Kurzick/Luxon faction bar it tells you how much you've earned total on your account.-- L u i g i  [[Image:Luigi shodansig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:45, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

That is the most stupid thing I ever heard. "Deserve", if your trading for amber, you deserve NO factions towards title. Solus  01:26, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, with the new update, factions that you trade for amber and/or jadeite now count, so it's not THAT stupid. And you might wanna check this page GW:NPA before you call someone's post "stupid." 24.80.162.158 04:13, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * 'someone's post' ? The update is really bad, there is now, no way to ensure someone is really contributing to the guild's faction. Most guild in my alliance do requires weekly screen shots (whoeing title track which was only by contributing to the guild), but now it is just obsolete and leechers are invisible. Vezz 15:29, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If your alliance is forcing its members to faction farm and can't trust them enough to donate to the cause, it sounds to me that you've got worse problems than losing control of a city. SarielV 22:18, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

This is funny though, it would take on average 666hours of constant FFF to get the last Kurzick title, woot :) Solus   01:27, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Heck, this update gave me a reason to do alliance battles again. The allegiance title track was just one more meaningless title until now, and faction farming like mad to desperately keep your faction up gets old REALLY quickly. The rewards are rather underwhelming as well, especially considering the advent of Passage Scrolls (Ooh, I can pay just a bit less for stuff! Wowsers!). Now I actually look forwards to increasing this title, which makes the PvP junkies I know happy. Everyone wins! -Gildan Bladeborn 16:39, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Fucking waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, I'm not complaining about all my faction I could've gained... Noobcity...

Well, all faction gain can be spent to the get skill and get twice as much for the title. Once a char got them all, you can make a new one and remake it once he get them all too. Vezz 15:34, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, and as you don't need to buy them in HzH/Cavalon (also in the guild hall possible), this is really easy. :) --Xoleras 19:09, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * This is no longer even possible, let alone a good idea. Unless that is, you like leveling new characters to 20 then deleting them on a regular basis.  Besides, if you donate 5k towards the alliance you get 10k towards your title. -Gildan Bladeborn 16:33, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

191.000 luxon?!?!?!
i got as my luxon title track 191k luxon you het 1k additional for each rank you have or something? Fox007  06:41, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Every time you spend Faction, it counts towards the title... unless you're asking something else. --Kale Ironfist 09:59, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I think he mans the odd value. Since last update it's possible to add 1k to the title track (for buying amber/jadeit) or 6k (for the skills), not just the regularly 5k.--Xoleras 10:02, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * i found that when i was rereading the update^^ anyway thanks for the explanation but it would be cool if it happend <font color="Orange">Fox007 [[Image:Warrior-icon-small.png|Warrior]] 14:55, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Of course, now the regular 5k donation nets you 10k towards the title. -Gildan Bladeborn 16:31, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Kurzick and Luxon versiosn
Apparently the Kurzick and Luxon versions of the skills have different icons. Does this mean that there's actually 20 different skills? Can you put both versions on your skillbar at the same time? -- Gordon Ecker 19:21, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If I read correctly, while they have different internal values, they have coding that prevents a copy from the other side from being put on your bar. --Kale Ironfist 21:33, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * My guess: same skill, which show the icon of the side in which you are higher in rank, thus giving you the higher benefit. Foo 04:04, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No, they're completely different skills (internally). They just use the exact same mechanics in determining how powerful they are. That's why they have different icons. --Kale Ironfist 05:31, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * so then shouldnt we include the icons and everything else for both sides?--Patch 08:51, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

rank 1 for skills
"You must achieve at least rank 1 of the Friend of the Luxons title track before you can learn any Luxon skills!" I've added this to the article. Pulpulpullie 08:53, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm playing a canthan character and havent gotten the befriend the kurzicks mission, however after going into my guild hall and playing AB for a while i i spent 5000 of my 6000 or so faction on a amber and tried to buy a skill and was told "You must achieve at least rank 1 of the Friend of the kurzicks title track before you can learn any kurzick skills!" when i looked at my title track it said i had 5000/10.000 (progress bar was half full) however when i then earned another 5000 and donated it to my alliance i assumed i had the first title, upon looking though it had suddenly changed to 15000/100000. --62.163.51.178 23:00, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

"Jadeite"
Whoever added that section missed out a lot, including things like amber and armour as well. And, does GWiki care about things becoming less useful since prices have gone down? And anyway, the main use for exchanging faction for jadeite is for armour, and most people just exchange it for their own armour anyway, not to sell.


 * I added amber for symmetry, but vote to delete the section. --BlueNovember 16:47, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well we should talk about contribution to the title but I wouldn't mention prices or trading as its not really relevant. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:51, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with BlueNovember. Amber and Jadeite aren't direct benefits of the title. -- Gordon Ecker 18:55, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Progression Tables
I have done some testing with Allegiance/Sunspear ranks vs. Normal attributes, and I have discovered that Allegiance skill numbers go from 0...10...12, comparable with 0...12...15 for normal attributes and 0...8...10 for Sunspear rank skills. See User:Torak321/Test.

I compared Vital Boon, Eternal Aura, and Summon Spirits (all 3 have 40...88) and have constructed the above table by comparing all 3 progressions together and matching up allegiance ranks and sunspear ranks with the corresponding ranks of normal attributes. The progression tables on the test page should be 100% correct. Please notify me if I'm missing something or if something is wrong. --Torak321 21:29, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * WTF is the point of the table having 0 Allegiance Rank when you can't even get the damn spell until you have at least Rank 1? Kristy Dragonslayer 12:04, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I believe the point is so that people stop changing the progression table so 1 is at the minimum, because that is not true --Gimmethegepgun 12:10, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You can use sig of illusions at illusion rank 0, also the game has the skills listed with rank 0. Eric368 21:35, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Weakness, look it up. &mdash;<font face="Impact"> ~ Soqed Hozi ~  10:41, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I wonder if Weakness affects these ranks, since they're not "attributes". Also, the table has 0 rank because the low end of the green number range shown on the skill corresponds to a virtual '0-rank'.  &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   12:29, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It doesn't, I just tested it. -- Gordon Ecker 14:49, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

The section headed Kurzick/Luxon skills
Strictly speaking, this part should be headed with something that also heads the part where it says about donating faction to alliance. Maybe this heading could be Skills and Donations or something &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.74.15.58 (contribs).


 * I think we should keep the current heading and remove the redundant info. The second paragraph already says how many title points you get for spending faction on skills, faction transfer and items, and the fact that spending faction on anything other than faction transfer provides no benefit to alliance faction belongs in the alliance faction article. -- Gordon Ecker 18:39, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Estimated farming time required to acheive rank X

 * 1) Duel of the Houses without a blessing, not taking cash in time into account.
 * 2) The Jade Arena without a blessing, estimated based on Duel of the Houses.

Discussion
It looks like farming Duel of the Houses or the Jade Arena with a specialized nuking build is still faster. -- Gordon Ecker 05:01, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ouch, a little over a month of play time to farm to rank 10 in Duel of the Houses, but rank 2 ideally only takes a couple weekends and rank 6 only takes a couple more (1 each on double faction weekends). I wonder how long a fast faction farming run takes. -- Gordon Ecker 00:52, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I added the faction total for clearing out Archipelagos, but I've never timed myself so the rest of that data is still blank. -Gildan Bladeborn 10:53, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

PvE Farming
If you can farm in PvE shouldn't that be mentioned in the main page? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.83.63.49 (contribs).


 * The above research is intended as a precursor to an article similar to Sunspear point farming and Lightbringer point farming. -- Gordon Ecker 15:30, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Level 20?
I have Selfless Spirit on my level 12 monk. Apparently you don't need to be level 20 to learn these skills.


 * For a short time after they were released, any character could get them. It changed soon after, because people could get massively powerful skills at extremely low levels, such as Spear of Fury or Ether Nightmare, both of which rip things apart at that level --Gimmethegepgun 10:06, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Wow this is RETARED!
im so pissed at arena nets crap. So i earned the Jadite (spellig error) for my wars  15k armor before this update that makes jadeite count towars title...ok theres maybe 70-80k of luxon faction thats gone. Now you earn more faction in kurzick or luxon areas depending on witch side your on so there gose all that faction i should have earned...and now this is what pisses more off more then anything and almost makes me wanna quit playing this. Omg is so pissed at this its hard to even type it with out cussing my head off.....they double it...the fricten thing they double the value of donated to guild faction...unF**KIN believable so that 555,000 and like 4 months working on it could of been 1,110,000 faction to my title+the bout 70k of jadite...not including w.e i would of earned from the multiple kurzick wins and now instead of getting 1,250 per win 1,500 per win...so ya i got cheated out of over like 650k towards titles...thats f**king bulls**t  everyone that earned faction to tittles before that update should of had it doubled becuase that was the only way to get faction towrds title then and it someone had less to there tittle track then there total faction earned b.c they spent it on jadite...that should have been added back...so this is complete and utter BULLS*IT that they cheat the ppl who have played this game longer and give the newer players  it much easier then it was when this game came out. such crap &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by BlackMagic16 (contribs).
 * And then he realizes that it is a game. And then, that he is crying about AB, in the game. Shame :/ <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 13:34, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Then stick to one, get rewards, sell em and buy the lux stuff TrapY 05:07, 28 July 2007 (CDT) Wow, cry everyone a river. You done crying yet? No? Well hurry up cuz it won't do you any good. I can't beleive people are making such a big deal about this. IT'S JUST A GAME. 75.163.81.216 13:21, 31 July 2007 (CDT)Myridon Die


 * not to start a flamewar or enything, but i can understand he's not to happy right now... yes, it is 'just' a game, but ppl put hundreds of hours into it. knowing it's all gone to waiste simply sucks... Pul 09:23, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * He is right. Its like when you had to spend 27 tries to beat THK. You want everyone else to go and do what you did. It ment you were cream of the crop if you got to the Ring of Fire. Then they made it so that it takes 1/2 the effort you put though. How did you feel?(Its not very good I know but its all I got.) Done25 10:10, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Did THK actually get easier, or did players just get better the second time around? It feels a lot easier, but I don't remember anything about a difficulty change in the update notes. -- Gordon Ecker 18:54, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * With Hard Mode, normal mode was supposedly made easier, which helps.--Cursed Condemner 19:22, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but that just toned down the AI improvements which caused monsters to flee from ADoT skills. One likely factor for the decreased difficulty is the ability of players to cap elites in other campaigns, but I noticed it getting easier before the release of Factions, so I believe that increasing player skill and the spread of effective THK strategies are also factors. -- Gordon Ecker 19:40, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Eh? Since when was THK hard? If it took you 27 tries, you don't deserve to be at Ring of Fire. Not now anyways :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:00, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Please be nice and don't patronize. Foo 10:09, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

(reset)Entropy...THAT WAS THE POINT!!! It used to be rip your face off hard unless you did it just right and nobody messed up. Now you can easily beat it with a PUG. Done25 10:36, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, that must have been hard on you. Too bad and suck it up? If you /ragequit because ANet nerfed your precious "accomplishments" to omgwtf grinding (aka. Allegience Title), then you lose. Honestly. Move on and do something else "impressive" if you really need the "respect" that badly. And remember that ANet doesn't give a damn about you anyways. Making the game easier for new players = more customers = more profit. If you want to talk about nerfs to hard missions, well, I've just a shred more sympathy for you because it all still boils down to profit. If only the most elite of players are reaching the endgame in X campaign, that is bad for player satisfaction, creates unnecessary divide in the player community between the "noobs at THK" and the "bigshots at Ring of Fire", and just generally makes the game suck more. To use a bad example, The Deep/Urgoz/DoA is the way to go with those sorts of things. It's totally optional, requires cream-of-the-crop players, and is not in any way tied to the main storyline progression. THK is a PvE required mission to reach Perdition Rock and beyond...with many, many highly valued skillcaps and valuable loot like Mursaat Hammer or Magmas Shield, there are more incentives beyond storyline progression. If you can't beat THK, you get frustrated and fed up with the game "because it should not be this hard", it is a "normal" mission designed for PUGs or hench to beat. If you're failing in DoA or something, though, you can forgive yourself. "It requires high-level playing skills and coordinated teammates which I do not have." Because of this difference, ANet has much, much more to gain by nerfing THK so that the general public can get past it. Perhaps ANet overestimated the difficulty of the mission? Maybe. Perhaps PUGs or hench were just never good enough in the first place? Maybe. But let's be honest: To complain about ANet making primary missions easier is falling into the hateful-elitist mindset. You can be an "elitist", but whether you do so out of spite to others or pride in your own abilities is a different matter. It is one thing to be unhappy because "ANet is letting all those nOObs into Ring of Fire". This is hateful and disrespectful. It is another thing to swallow your pride, acknowledge that you had your moment in the sun, and move on. The game changes, and if you cannot change with it, you better play something else quick. If I spent all day griping about those damn Heroes ruining my totally pwnzor accomplishments with full parties of henchmen, I would be wasting my time. If I was being hateful, anytime someone did a commendable solo-AI accomplishment, I would LOLZ at them and say "You phail, you used Heroes. I only had hench." But do I do that? No. Instead, I acknowledge that the past is the past, and what is considered a major accomplishment will always depend on the latest updates. And I move on, to higher and farther goals. To take Heroes as the example again...now that everyone can use Heroes, people's expectations for solo-AI accomplishments have gone way up. Let's say that I did Gate of Madness with just myself, Tahlkora, and Dunkoro. Is that impressive? Damn right it is...and without the addition of "those damn Heroes", it would not be possible. Now apply that reasoning to your THK. It was once hard and now it is not such an accomplishment. So what? Find something else hard to do using the new tools made available to you...Heroes, Hard Mode, new Elites from Nightfall. Try doing THK with four or less party memebers. Try doing it in Hard Mode uninfused. Try doing it without a Monk. Just try something. Let me put it another way: If you can't improve your skills to constantly be in that class of impressive achievements, then you have no justification to complain when your sole claim to fame, namely beating THK in the old days, is suddenly invalidated. You're a veteran player who is now obsolete and by current game standards, you are not a prO. So move on. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:48, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice rant. To bad it has nothing to do with me. I even said "Its not very good I know but its all I got". Jeez. Done25 10:08, 3 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I like how the original poster couldn't be bothered to even spell "retarded" correctly. Besides, examining all the ways things didn't contribute towards titles is a street you don't want to go down.  Wisdom?  "Blast, all those golds from before didn't count!"  Gladiator?  "Son of a- all those arena battles wasted!".  I could go on, but in this case all they've really done is make it easier for you to KEEP on contributing towards your title, anyone who can't see that isn't thinking clearly. -Gildan Bladeborn 10:49, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Any idea what made Entropy so mad that s/he had to make that massive rant? Done25
 * Umm...stupid posts? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:24, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well Done25 makes me mad. He has countless vandalisims and needs to play the game a bit more before registering opinions:O.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:44, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh wow, you still haven't gotten over that? Talk about a misplaced grudge. Done25

Other benifits?
I know there aren't any actual other benifits to the titles apart forom the kills which is why i've started this bit, i thought wouldn't it make sense if you get discounts at merchs or whatever depending on what your rank is in the corrosponding area (e.g you get 2% discount off for each rank in the titles (so max of 24%?)in any kurzick place if it's kurz title or luxon places if it's luxon) or some such benifit to make the titles more worth while....because some of the skills seem pretty *cough*.....and to make them decent you need to spend the hours playing which above i think was worked out at just short of 800 hours if you FFF for rank 12 (400 for r10 which is the max benchmark on the skills?)so i think it would work out as more of an insentive to some people to have some such feature.... PheNaxKian 12:59, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Benefits in AB?
I've seen people get the NPC shrine guards to follow them around in AB (other than the Saltspray Dragon). I assume it's at a certain allegiance rank, but which rank is it? Or is there some little trick or exploit to get them to follow you? --Mafaraxas 04:23, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The level 24 Luxon / Kurzick Elite NPCs follow players like the dragons. As for the other NPCs, there's AI bug which can cause NPCs to "forget" to stay in one place and start following someone to heal or buff them. It seems to happen most frequently with minions. -- Gordon Ecker 04:51, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I've also seen people with normal elementalist NPCs in their groups. I'll try to get a pic of it the next time I see it. --Mafaraxas 09:23, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Nevermind, you're right... --Mafaraxas 16:54, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Hall of Monuments requirement?
anyone know what rank you need for this title to be displayed in the hall of monuments? Thanks.

You need at least rank 3 in your faction. I'll screencap my example of it, had to to do a fresh reinstall of GW since it crashed. :/ Kitiara Soulfrost 22:36, 5 September 2007 (CDT)Kitiara Soulfrost
 * I needed rank 4. I wasn't able to get it at rank 3. As soon as I got rank 4, I was able to. So unless someone shows that you can get it at rank 3... &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 23:53, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

this is super retarded
Assuming 100-200 faction per minute (VERY generous) you would have to put in nearly 1000 hours to max out your rank. That's if you FFF constantly non stop and do nothing else. 1000 hours is MORE time than I've put in over 2 years of playing. Talk about ridiculous grind. Thanks a-net for introducing ridiculous grind when you said you wouldnt. THis is super ridiculous retarded. Anyone who has more than rank 5 has serious no life. --Travers 12:54, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * If you look futher up it actually takes aroun 767 hours (which still sounds lot but 230 hours of is quite a lot if you think about it) and you don't have to get to max rank-it's your choice, i'm quite happy to jsut play AB and spend what faction i get on alliance-this way i get double points towards my title basicly meaning it only takes something like 380ish hours (which is a big diffrence) and i'm assuming that the table with the times was made before the update about various things giving more to the title (i think it was...) and every so often they do double points so by raising your alliance rep on those days you get 4 points for every 1 donate (so basicly spend 5k rasing alliance and get 20k on title....) not so much grinding then if you think about it...sure it takes a while but meh....all titles take a while to max if you think about it-this is a title that can't be baught like the wisdom one that's what you have to think-titles on this have more meaning to players i supose you could say....PheNaxKian 15:49, 11 September 2007 (CDT)