Talk:Dunes of Despair (mission)

Possible Glitch
I have just taken my paragon into this mission 6 times in a row. With and without Heroes. The Ghostly Hero has glitched at the first seige worm and bridge everytime I have gone in. He actually just stands there and will not fight or lower the bridge to cross and kill the worm. Even if you go down further and cross the bridge and kill the boss. The cutscene starts and plays. when its done, the ghostly hero just turns and runs back toward the seige worm and gets stuck against the wall. Every single time. I have yet to try it with a human team.Has anyone else tried a Dervish or Paragon on this mission and had this problem? Or not had it? Any suggestions or Ideas? HungryArmadillo 00:45, 26 November 2006 (CST)


 * Went back a 7th time. He glitched again, but this time after the cut scene I talked to him and he followed once again. Used all henchies and failed. lol gonna try again with heroes.


 * 8 times the charm. Went back for another trip with heroes/henchie party. No glitching and everything went just fine. easily done like I remember. But I think the glitch is obviously still there. HungryArmadillo 01:44, 26 November 2006 (CST)


 * This happens without heros in the team if you attack the wurm before GH casts claim resources. At a guess the heros may be attacking and glitching the GH. --JP 01:55, 26 November 2006 (CST)


 * Have you tried going around and taking the suspension bridge? --Rainith 01:57, 26 November 2006 (CST)


 * I also came across this bug. I was with two heros.  Searing Flames Ele x2, Prot Monk, Prot Hench, Healer Hench.  The mission was a breeze.  Killed all mobs way before 3 minutes.  Decided to attempt the bonus.  After reaching the top area I noticed the health of the GH.  Had to run back and tell my prot hench to get healing.  For 3 minutes I watches as all hencies spammed healing on him and the whole team from the incoming attacks of the 4 wurms.  The game ended with me on about 20 health, the prot hero with about 50 and all others dead.  I have to redo this mission again at some stage, I will see if avoiding the first wurm helps. --SK [[Image:Warrior-icon-small.png]]  01:59, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * this is different - this sounds like the GH is running back to the first wurm you see on the mission if you don't kill it crossing the drop bridge the GH can lower (you can also cross a suspension bridge, but this is the longer way around). Your problem is caused by monsters spawning outside the gate and then charging the hero, which is not a glitch, just a major annoyance and makes doing mission + bonus at the same time extremely difficult.  Usually you need a party split if you want to do it at the same time, at minimum a bonder that bonds the hero and hangs back, but more typically a 3-3 or 4-2 split.  There was a time when the GH was so fragile he would die in 2-3 seconds without help, but now he can take a bit more of a beating.  Heroes and Henchies also heal him now, which helps a lot. --Falseprophet 18:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm almost positve it is related to the jade scarabs that spawn near there. I would assume you have brought him into aggro range of them (but they don't spawn unless you're closer than that). Just kill all the scarabs in the area and try again, it should be fine.

He glitched for me too, but...all you have to do is talk to him and he will follow you again >.< so yeah don't waste time restarting the mission..

Locations
I just did this and all 3 generals were near point 1 on the map and there wasn't even a boss at point 2. Is this random or did the original writer just get confused?--Cloak of Letters 12:36, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I just did the mission with a group last week and we killed all three at point 1 and we didn't get the bonus. Even thought the few times I did the bonus, we did find them all at position 1. I am not sure what is going on. --Karlos 17:37, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Did you get the nonbosses too?--Cloak of Letters 21:52, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)

Exploit
This is an exploit, not an alternative method, and recently, I went with two groups who tried it and both failed to find a single corpse (you can't use the Enchanteds for Necrotic Traversals and they seem to have moved the Jade Scarabs to the other side of the bridge). Are you sure this still works? Have you tried it recently? --Karlos 17:37, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I did it just before posting. I didn't see it come out of the ground but there was a scarab running around in range. I guess you just need to get lucky.--Cloak of Letters 21:52, 14 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * A couple of weeks ago, a group I was in tried the approach of not bringing ghost to the altar and trying to kill/lure monsters at the southern raised drawbridge. In a half dozen times, we could only find one within range of a caster or bowman once or twice, and they didn't 'pull', they only scurried off. User Queen of Spades 128.252.10.27 05:11, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * I just tried this tonight with a group and couldn't find any spawns within range. This must just be a lucky spawn. - SilentVex
 * This was previously possible, but not anymore. It was changed a long time ago. Now they only rarely spawn in range and will run away if attacked. I'll update the artcile when I have the bosses explored. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 09:10, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Its now again possible to kill the first boss before lowering the bridge. Dunno when it was broken again. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:17, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I tried it today twice, both time this boss group behind the south gate was FAR outta range of my flat/longbow.... seems this got fixed some way :\ HJT 11:05, 14 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I also tried 2-3 times and met with the same results - the boss group was beyond the range of my longbow. However, the impression I get from reading some online forums is to look for a group of Jade Scarabs that may randomly spawn near the south door; it is suggested using PBAoE or PBAoEDD spells to bring them out. --DaveBaggins 18:35, May 14 2006 (CST)
 * I just did it a couple of days ago. An E/N in our group used necrotic traversal or consume corpse (not sure which) to get past the south draw gate and killed 2 bosses before starting the timer. --thecount June 22 06
 * Tried a couple of times to do the timer exploit but not a single monster in range, does anyone know how to uncover the map an do the bonus without running skills (I'm a necro)? Samael 14:55, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Did it today on the first try ; boss was a forgotten, not an enchanted.Yves 16:32, 3 March 2007 (CST)
 * I was able to find some scarabs to kill from afar and actually sent Olias over with Necrotic Transversal, then gave me and my other heroes the vamp and had Olias rebirth us. This was about a week ago- so it works great! I did try the 'hurry up and kill stuff' methods before without success. So I want to note that contrary to some of the other claims later in this article, this mission AND bonus is totally possible with only heroes and henchmen. I used Reyna to kill the scarabs from afar since she seems to use a longbow, a hero monk so I could disable all healing spells until we were over, and flagged the henchmen far away so they wouldn't use their rez signet on us. --Jasminethetender 10:59, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


 * "this mission AND bonus is totally possible with only heroes and henchmen"
 * Yes, this mission and bonus are both able to be done with only heroes and henchmen. But, using the NT trick, not at the same time (finish Mission, come back for bonus next time, or vise versa).  Once you, as solo human in group, get rebirthed across the chasm, you no longer have the ability to finish the mission (no one to take Ghost to cap alter).  I believe the mission itself is still doable with just henchmen (no heroes), only much easier (less hard?) if you are a Monk primary.  I won't be testing it though, as I bought Nightfall to avoid using all hench ever again.
 * Yes, the NT exploit still works. Jades are now harder to come by than before, but still can be found if you look hard or last resort resign/restart mission.  The NT trick is the only way I know of to get that area 100% mapped, let alone in a single run.
 * I think the biggest complaint on this mission is that it used to be henchable to get mission + bonus in the same run. This is definitely not the case anymore, unless you have godlike speed in killing the 3 bonus bosses (you have 3 min at end to do it in, which includes getting there).
 * BTW, there is another AI "exploit" you can use to not have to kill off your heroes/hench once you are NT/rebirthed across the chasm. See below under Some sort of miracle, bug, or feature.  Queen Schmuck 11:33, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

It appears even the Enchanted bosses are exploitable - I just took down the Ranger Enchanted boss and my Olias was able to get a minion out of it, so NT should work for this as well. HanokOdbrook 12:01, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Pfft you don't even need to use this to get to the bonus. I completed mission and bonus at the same time. We activated the final fight and five of us (we had two monks, a healer and a smiter, with the smiter staying behind) took out te bonus. Dr Elvis was the guy's name, he used Balth Aura, SoJ and the like wit using divine favour bonuses to heal the ghost. Quite effective. I laughed when I heard people attempted the bonus by killing themselves. You just need to think around such issues.

"Could someone confirm this"
I just removed the "Could someone confirm this" note from the Bonus objective. I recently did the mission and I hereby confirm that the Bonus objective is right.

Goss Aleesh
The Bosses and Elite Skills section should be updated. Instead of Ayassah Hess, I found Goss Aleessh. --DaveBaggins 09:54, Feb 12 2006 (CST)

Staff of slow
not exactly sure where, but there is an object in this mission called the staff of slow You can pick it up and hold it (you get the drop item button)

when dropped, it radiates as slow area spell any mob entering the circle wil move very slow

We did the mission pretty easy that way :)
 * It's already in the article -- it's called the Slow Totem. --Bishop 19:05, 2 March 2006 (CST)

location of generals for bonus
The map is wrong: all 3 generals are in the southern fort. you only need to head south, not east and west --
 * The numbers on the map do not represent the locations of the generals. They are mearly reference points.  Read the walkthrough of the bonus, as it clarifies the information. --161.88.255.140 15:32, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * That clears it up! I always thought the generals were in the 3 forts.. didn't read the text that well. I still think the image is incorrect though because it suggests that the green path is the bonus path and the 3 points are the 3 generals. What do the points represent if they do not represent the generals? Only point 2 is referenced in the text. This is a hard mission and I think this image only confuses people... --82.73.178.173 05:55, 19 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The image should be updated. I uploaded the original (back then I thought the generals were there), I'll see if I can get around to uploading another, but don't hesitate to do your own one. --Karlos 06:00, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

Missing bosses
There are some bosses missing. There is atleast a warrior boss at the south fort. --Gem 04:43, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The nature of the mission makes it hard to explore fully.. You can't go out and explore the bosses and leave the ghost with henchies, so you'll need to get other players with you. I agree there is a warrior boss, and judging by the other 2 desert missions, there has to be a ranger in the southeast fort. --Karlos 05:13, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I am arranging an exploration group with Kalomeli and 2 other friends to reveal the mysteries of the bosses. This will need a few tries to get all of the bosses and SoC confirmations. (And to be sure of the spawn locations) I will create a new map for the mission at the same time. The current one is very misleading. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 05:35, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * First try, everything went well. Killed the first mesmer boss ofcourse, then the elementalist which was too close to the centre before we took the hero to the altar, then the ranger which attacks to the Hero and then the warr and necro at the southern base. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:17, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Locations are rotating. The warrior boss often attacks in the missions I played while the ranger dude is found just outside the bonus fortress (where the exploit used to be). --Karlos 21:00, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I kenw they rotated, but didn't know that the one attacking the fort changed. I have always had the ranger attack and I have done the mission many times. Are there some differences between the possible locations? Atleast some bosses are in some places more often. I have never seen the monk. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 03:38, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, I found the monk atlast. Any bosses can spawn at the southern fort, but I have only seen the ranger, warrior and necromancer attack the fort. I assume that the others might rarely attack too.
 * I also have the area fully explored (There is a huge empty area in the east. I might have been the first man there ever :P ) Only a few square millimeters missing from the western fort, but I couldn't get in. I need to kill the Enchanteds in front of it first. I am not sure if there are bosses in the west and east forts, but I have to check it. After I get to the western fort I will submit a new better map. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:50, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

Custscene Dialog
This is the first mission on which I've started to add cutscene dialog (original discussion). Please feel free to review, discuss, correct or improve what I have done so far. --IAmAI 06:57, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

Bonus Description Wrong?
I'm following the current bonus description, and appears as if the mission has perhaps been changed. After the rounds of arcanists, the westward charge to get the two groups leaves a group of enchanted bowmen to the south that move in to attack the hero. I'm going to try staying closer until the west group, south group, and boss group are dealt with and see if that yields better luck.--66.92.73.217 18:30, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm having trouble understanding what issue you are having.-User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:53, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * There are 4 rounds of arcanists (east, south, west, then east again). According to the bonus description, you then take out the group of enchanted at the west bridge, and then head a little further ("towards point 2") to take out the boss group. There's also a group of enchanted bowmen to the south that show up at about the same time as that first group of enchanted on the bridge.  If you head further west to take the boss group, the ghostly hero gets wiped by the bowmen every time.  Killing the bowmen allowed me to proceed toward the fort, but didn't leave enough time to kill the generals.--66.92.73.217 19:44, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

Bonus and current AI?
With the current (Nov '06) AI most of the bonus strategies are unlikely to be successful. First, the seige wurms never break agro with the ghostly hero. Previously the would stop attacking him once you were out of their agro, now their agro appears to include the 'throne' the ghostly hero must hold for 10 minutes. Once the wurms spawn they will continue to attack him and if you leave him without a healer he will die long before the time runs out. The other change has to do with kiting. The forgotten generals kite like mad, unless you can pin them 100% they will agro a ton of the jade scarabs buried every couple of feet outside of the 'castle'. This makes going outside the 'castle' to kill the last incoming group highly inadvisable and it makes doing the secondary the "normal" way difficult at absolute best. Basically the necrotic traversal 'trick' has become the only way of getting the secondary with any degree of certainty. -- 127.0.0.0

...Moreover this bonus can no longer be done with henchmen. Period. As far as I know this is the only bonus in game which is 100% in need of human assistance. Not even Heroes would help out. Things that need to be done:

-Leave a healer behind to attend to the Ghostly Hero.

Problematic, as party size is only 6, and most PUGs can only grab one or two monks.

-Kill or interrrupt all 3 siege wurms.

Need 3 good Mesmers or Rangers; probably have to be humans. Can a party of three take out the Forgotten generals?

-Work fast.

Like most missions, this one got harder because monsters are smarter. The statement, "having over six minutes left" really doesn't apply anymore unless you're in a very good party that is well prepared. (Besides, you must wait for the last wave from the West, due to Jade Scarabs).

Even just the mission itself is hard with henchies; the siege wurms out-damage both healer henchmen in the final minutes, leading to near-wipe. It's sad really. Personally I think the change to Siege Wurm aggro has something to do with the new Wurms from Nightfall. I think it is an oversight and not intentional...the mission and bonus are just way too difficult now. Nearly the hardest in the game, period...harder than Glint, even. And that's just not right. Especially since this is a "required" mission to advance the storyline.

Perhaps there are some new countermeasures out there that have just not been discovered yet. Some new 'tricks' for this bonus and mission. That seems only fair... 24.6.147.36 02:26, 17 November 2006 (CST)(Entropy)


 * I have tried leaving Dunkoro with the Ghostly Hero, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anywhere to leave him where the wurms won't eventually pound him into the sand before they move on to the Ghostly Hero. The best I've managed was to kill all of the generals and have only two of the enchanted left before the Ghostly Hero wiped. Mind you, I probably only got that far because the spawn was such that I could wipe the first general and his enchanted before the timer started. Dunkoro dies surprisingly quickly under wurm fire, the hero monks seem to place self-healing at a very low priority, so leaving Dunkoro behind only buys you a minute or so before the Ghostly Hero dies.


 * As for killing or interrupting the wurms, I just don't see it. Killing them would take too long, interrupting them would tie up half your team -- it'd be unlikely you'd have enough firepower left to take out the generals, their enchanted, and whatever scarabs joined the fun.


 * The only way I can see the secondary being halfway doable at the moment is either you have an excellent group and a lot of luck -- an unlikely combination in this game -- or you use the necrotic traversal trick. I think you could probably even do it using heroes. Kill something, necrotic traversal yourself over, switch your heroes to vampiric weapons, rebirth them. Alternatively, make all of your heroes a necro secondary and keep grabbing and killing scarabs so each of them can necrotic traversal over. It'd be a massive PITA, but it should be doable.


 * It appears to me that there was no real thought given to how the AI changes would effect missions in previous chapters. I suspect said changes have probably messed up a number of missions, especially any with a time component. It's hard to see how they could mess up a mission much more than this one, though. The secondary on this one was always a bit of a PITA, but it was doable even with henchies -- I've done it several times. Now you really have to stretch things to even call it doable, it's certainly not what I'd call reasonable. I hope they fix it, just fixing the wurm agro would make all the difference, but, frankly, I'm not going to hold my breath. -- 127.0.0.0


 * Well, the peculiar thing is that this is the only mission in Prophecies which has been messed up badly. I've recently played through every mission and bonus (through Hell's Precipice) and while monsters in general are harder due to improved AI...there are no disastrous changes like in this mission. So it seems to be an isolated case.


 * Also - I've found that if you kill the first wurm that pops up (after 4 waves of Forgotten Arcanist), things almost return to a doable state. I managed to defeat two generals (first one using longow method) and minions plus some Jade Scarabs. However, the Ghostly Hero was overwhelmed by the "mystery group" of foes that sometimes spawns as you head towards the fort. If not for them I would have been able to do the bonus. My theory is that they trigger (sometimes) after you clear the first General and all his minions. I still had maybe 1:30 left...I could have done the bonus! ...But, yes, it seems it is still doable. You've got to be fast though, and bring lots of armor-ignoring damage for that Wurm. And it really is very difficult overall...luck needs to be on your side.


 * Here's a tenative build for doing it with hench...Mesmer primary would work best, but an Energy Storage-oriented Elementalist/Mesmer works also. All points should go to Domination, Energy Storage or Fast Casting, and leftovers to Inspiration. Equip: Energy Surge (elite), Energy Burn, Wastrel's Worry, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration, Shatter Enchantment, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Enchantment. Versus Enchanted, Wurms, and Centaurs, use the first three for armor-ignoring damage. Use the two interrupts to stop Wurm Siege. Versus Forgotten Arcanists, remove as many enchantments as possible and save interrupts for Earthquake. Finally, for the Generals, use Wastrel's Worry since the duration needed is reduced to about 1 second. Bring Alesia, Lina, Orion, Little Thom, and Stefan. Cross your fingers...24.6.147.36 14:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)(Entropy)


 * Tested, works like a charm - wurms go down in less than 30 seconds. I would have gotten bonus except I was treated to the stupid Monk general, Dassk Arossyss, who kited like mad. Didn't even pull the first General with a Longbow, either. So I guess the bonus is still doable, but nevertheless needs a very specialized build and high coordination. Plus luck.


 * Aye, that mesmer build helped me too. I didn't take care of the worms though, the damage they did to the ghostly hero was minimal. I just ignored them. Went as dervish and took protter hero, interrupt+poison ranger hero with me + mesmer hero with that build above (rest: necro npc and Alesia npc). The monk boss is annoying, even with balthasar form active he's just as fast and still manages to run away >:( Whatever, got him anyway aswell as the rest. Bonus success, mission failure ;) The running after the chicken monk boss took too much time. Suppose a long lasting cripple skill like Pin Down would help there. (Lilly, 23. November 2006)


 * I managed to complete the bonus with heros/henchies. No specialized build.  I equipped Dunkoro with Heal Area and left him with the Ghostly Hero.  It works for the most part, but you do have to keep an eye on his skill bar to make sure he uses it.--66.215.48.110 01:37, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * Not owning Nightfall, I have not been able to use Heroes; however, every single time I try the bonus the "old fashioned way", the Ghostly Hero gets annihlated by Wurm Siege. I don't understand why for some folks it doesn't deal much damage...
 * In any case I managed to complete the bonus with all henchmen! It's difficult though...Need to use Necrotic Traversal or Consume Corpse, then lure and kill all three Generals. Since they kite like mad it takes forever...plus, only the Archer henchman has the range to assist in the kills (usually). It took me at least an hour, thanks to two generals having healing skills (Orison, Aura of Restoration). But, it's possible. :) Still it seems unfair, because so far the consensus is that to get the bonus you need to do one of the following:


 * 1) You must have Nightfall, and thus Heroes.


 * 2) You must "cheat the clock" via the Necrotic Traversal trick.


 * 3) You must have at least two human players to deal with improved Siege Wurm range.


 * And this is not fair, because this is the only Prophecies mission/bonus that can't be done with all Henchmen. Even if you use the "trick" it's not fair; players shouldn't have to rely on exploits to complete something that used to be doable without exploits. Where is the "challenge" or "skill" in using the Necrotic Traversal + Rebirth trick? Lastly, the problem is that if you're not a Necromancer or Assassin primary or secondary, and you haven't Ascended/Weh No Su etc to change professions, you can't even use the Trick. Thus preventing you from getting the bonus without Heroes or human help. It's just unfair. *end rant*
 * ...And while I'm at it, you have to use Necrotic Traversal trick to explore the entire map; there is a huge section to the southeast that is not part of the mission. That's not fair either, since it counts towards the title. Entropy 22:35, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * FWIW, you don't have to use the necrotic traversal trick to map the area, you can use the ~5 minutes or so you have left after protecting the Ghostly Hero to run around outside. It takes several runs and you can't really get inside the other forts that way, but you can get the vast bulk of it that way. I got Tyrian Grandmaster Cart on one of my characters using only henchies and that was the only way I could come up with to map that area since the nec-traversal trick is of little use if it's just you -- too many scarabs for one person to take on.


 * That aside, I believe the AI changes yesterday (12/15/06) fixed the perma-agro worm issue. Perhaps needs more testing, but I did the mission last night with a friend and it appeared the worms no longer lock on the Ghostly Hero and pound him to oblivion. They do, of course, lock on to you and try and pound you into oblivion (what did I ever do to them, anyway?), but that's always been the case. -- 127.0.0.0


 * I apparently was mistaken. Tried to do the secondary today with another character and watched as the wurms pounded the Ghostly Hero into the dust. I really, really wish they would fix this, not to mention the horribly broken AI all over. -- 127.0.0.0


 * Yes, the Ghostly still gets beaten to a pulp, it sucks. I was playing as a Monk and even with Two Hench monks it was a struggle to keep him alive! Grr.
 * Oh, Scarabs are easy to deal with actually - I can take out one to two solo with Ele, War, or Ranger. And remember that if you're ever in trouble, just run back to the hench, who you should set flag for at the cliff where you snipe that first boss. :) They'll help you out. Fairly easy solo mapping, but definitely easier with a party... Entropy 15:07, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Moved this text to Bonding for Bonus HOW-TO.

Some sort of miracle, bug, or feature.
Well, a very strange thing happened during the mission today...basically, I got a party of henchmen to break through walls, somehow, someway.

I was playing through with my Ranger, and I thought I'd use good old Necrotic Traversal to get the bonus by luring all the generals towards my henchies, who I've ordered to wait on top of the southern cliff (where you snipe the first boss with a longbow). Things went just fine and I took out the Mesmer and Monk generals, Ayassa Hess and Issah Sshay or whatnot. Now there was only one boss left: Custodian Kora, the Enchanted Bow Ranger boss. I lured and eliminated his minions, easy. But he refused to pull, so I was forced to tackle him alone.

The problem is that it's Ranger vs. Ranger; he has Troll Unguent and Throw Dirt, giving an obvious advantage. To counter, I drop the Slow Totem right on top of him and keep running around. Using Whirling Defense and Lightning Reflexes, it's pretty much neck and neck: both of us are spamming Penetrating Attack and it looks like we'll both die at the same time! I try to run, but just then my stance fails, and I die.

I think, Now what? Better start over...henchies obviously can't come and ress, because the bridges are still up, the Ghostly Hero has to be player-controlled to move, etc etc. But just for kicks, I decide to turn off my Hench order.

That's when the strangeness starts happening.

After a minute or two, I see something approaching on the radar. Could it be...? A green dot! And then two more after it! Soon, the whole hench party is standing beside me, and in no time I've been resurrected. The whole thing just blows my mind, because it's bloody impossible. How in the hell can henchies move in and out of the fort, when the bridges are up? Is there some sort of secret passageway that only they know about? It was the most amazing yet strange thing I've ever seen in Guild Wars. I thought I was hallucinating.

Just to make sure things were really real, I went ahead and attacked Custodian Kora. Sure enough, the henchies really were there. We easily beat the general and I acquired the bonus. Arriving back at the Dunes of Despair outpost, I was of course happy but more than a little perplexed. But it just goes to show, henchmen are better than they seem sometimes.

Comments, questions...shared experiences? Is this an isolated occurrance or have others seen something like this happen before too?

Entropy 02:06, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * While I have not experimented with Dunes of Despair in some time (the elonian equivalent is so ridiculously easy, I just do it), I HAVE seen odd AI for heroes and henchmen after dying. Even being just 3/4 of a radar away, I've seen odd things.  I died once because I ran into the fray like usual... only to realize that my heroes and henchies were still standing at the flag I had placed in the last battle.  (splat).  So I turned off the flag, and I expected them to be either lost, or come after me.  Logical, right?  There were no barriers in the way, but I didn't know if they were smart enough to find the way to me.  Get this:  they went two different ways!  Hereos went one way, away from me, the henchies appeared to come toward me.  It appears they use different AI algorithms for how they try to reach and follow you.  One thing to try with these henchies and the AI glitch that you noticed, is to A) try it again, does the same thing happen and B) select one of them and watch them, what do they do?  Or c) does it only work if you aren't watching them :DCyrogenic 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)


 * (A)It happened again! I died, I unset the flag...and the henchmen just teleported outside the fort! I have no clue what's going on now :D. I've noticed the same thing you have, sometimes the AI makes em split in funny ways.
 * I suppose I can try and watch them, that never occurred to me. Bu I doubt it would reveal anything. I'm just happy because now I have a haxxor way to do the bonus. :) Entropy 15:09, 28 December 2006 (CST)


 * Wow, hilarious. This worked for me, also -- traveled over after drawing the first general and killing him, drew off as many Enchanted and Jade Scarabs as I could before dying, and then recalled the calvary.  Silly AI walked up to the nearby cliff and then suddenly appeared below on the ground to come to my aid.  Hilarious.  - unregistered user :) 19:23 EST, January 9, 2k7


 * Yup, same thing on me. Did the Necrotic trick with heroes, and obviously turned the flagging off to make them follow me, and suddently(after a few minutes) i've noticed my two henchies joining the fray o_O Funny thing...(EDIT: I think that this "bug" is worth mentioning on the mission's page. Adding). --80.3.64.13 07:44, 10 January 2007 (CST)

This doesnt relate to the mission in general, but I have noticed similar things elsewhere. Once actually, in dunes, my friend had his hero's flagged back some, and when he unflagged them, they ran away from us even though they were still on the radar. I assume this is similar to what others have noticed, instead of waiting we just moved towards them and they changed direction.

Another instance, I went to powerlevel 2 hero's outside Lair of the Forgotten, I set a flag right by the zone as I went to hop in a wurm and clear the way for the hero's. After I cleared the way, I canceled the flag and they ran at the portal, and teleported to me.

Another(and last) instance I had this occur, I was skill capping and I set henchies/hero's to sit by the zone while I checked the boss spawn(this was in prophecies), it was the right boss, so I canceled the flag(hench/hero's dont trigger monsters till they are within radar, so they are 100% safe out of radar range, unless its a mission with certain spawns related to objectives), and they suddenly started to just appear next to me, much like sending them through a zone does, yet I just canceled the flag, I didnt send them through the portal. Anyway, thats what I have to add, so I think this is somewhat how the control system was designed, allowing hench/hero's to reach their master even if the normal way is impossible. --Mwpeck 21:59, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * ok, just tried it on dunes, had them up on the ledge(flagged), and I took out the first boss, moved JUST outside the aggro of the 2nd and 3rd bosses. Unflagged and they teleported to about where the first boss spawned at. --Mwpeck 14:21, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I think it's just a easy fix that prevent them to get lost. Way easier to make them appear there then write an AI that can find you all the way on the others side of the maps.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  14:24, 12 January 2007 (CST)


 * Can confirm this happens with heros dying as well, and heros going through walls. Used necrotic trick across with 3x heros and 2x henchies.  The henchies were flagged near the ghostly platform to keep them from healing me with my vampiric.  Hero necrotic over, I vampiric to death, rebirth over.  Monk hero vampirics to death, rebirthed over.  The necro, myself, and monk go to kill the generals while the third hero holds the vampiric -- I want him to die on the other side to necrotic back over into the fort.  He dies.  Three generals die.  I start running over to necrotic back to my hero, but find the hero and henchies alive and on my side of the fence waiting for me.  Doh! 66.65.85.197

Changes to bonus ability
Before the January 11, 2007 update, I was able to put monk hero with standard solo bond build on ghost (Life Barrier, Life Bond, Mending, Watchful Spirit, in that order of casting so bonding monk never takes damage), then park the hero monk at the bridge near the throne. This would keep the hero alive forever, and his health would never get below 50%. As a bonus bug, once the rest of the party (sans bonding hero monk) were outside of radar rage of the ghost, the ghost would quit taking damage (I'll admit that part was a bug, and needed fixed).

After the January 11, 2007 update, you are lucky if the ghost lives to 7 minutes, and is usually near death at 6:30. This happens even if I am clear on the Southeastern side of the map (WAY out of radar range, so they did fix out-of-radar-no-damage bug). Wurms also never stop attacking, and appear to do more % damage to ghost than they do to your party (his health appears to go down farther than my heroes' health, so maybe he now has less HP?).

Also of intersting note when the ghost is bonded: once the ghost gets to about 20% health, he instantly dies (right around 7 min into mission). Literally, his health goes straight from 20% to dead. The only thing I can think of that would do this is a pair of jade scarabs found him and instantly removed his 4 enchantments (could be possible and I don't know of any other enchantment removal creatures in this mission).

Before Jan 11, 2007 After Jan 11, 2007
 * Mission + Bonus at same time was guarenteed with a bonding hero monk, and did not require traversal exploit to accomplish this.
 * Bonus can be done, but you have to:
 * kill south bosses in under 7 min after hero takes alter
 * use traversal exploit (if you do this, might as well map too)
 * using above method, have someone baby sit ghost (see below)
 * Mission and Bonus now appears to be impossible to get at same time with heroes and henchies
 * Mission and Bonus now appears to be possible to get at same time
 * if another human babysits ghost (before him taking throne) while rest of party traversal/rebirths to bonus area, then you come back in to fight normal mission

Did something change? Oh yes.

An unrelated note, the bonus in Thirsty River now appears to be VERY hard to get, as the King ghost gets attacked as soon as you enter the last fighting area, which throws most game plans out the window if you want to keep him alive. This is only related because this also changed on Jan 11, 2007 (I did Thirsty River on the 10th and the 13th, Thirsty River has definitely changed).


 * As far as I know there has never been any evidence that the seige wurms were acting other than as intended when they stopped attacking once your party was out of their agro, certainly the secondary makes absolutely no sense if the seige wurms were meant to continuously pound the ghostly hero into the sand. Regardless, the introduction of Nightfall changed the seige wurm behavior drastically, things have gotten worse ever since. I don't think this was intentional as far as this mission is concerned, just as a side effect of changing the seige wurm AI, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be fixed. Basically at this point the Necrotic Traversal/Rebirth 'trick' is the only reasonable option if you want the secondary, albeit with teleport being modified I wouldn't count on that one working forever. It can be done without nec traversal if you have a good team and a little luck, but both can be hard to come by. I feel really sorry for new players trying this now, it must be hugely frustrating.


 * As for Thirsty River, the last time I did it was maybe a week and a half ago or so, but at that point everything seemed fine -- or, at least, I got the primary and secondary easily enough. In my experience, if you go right when you enter the last area there's always been a good chance the ghost would get attacked, but it didn't matter. I've always gotten the secondary as long as he hadn't left -- whether because he was 'dead' ('redead'?) or the timer hadn't run out didn't matter which. -- 127.0.0.0


 * I did Dunes on Jan 14, with a party of 4 humans and 2 heroes. We fought at the ghost until there were no more Forgotten spawns (at about 3 min left on the timer), then parked the monk hero with the ghost and rushed for the bonus. It was quite a close fight, but the monk hero was doing fine with healing the ghost.  We also previously went in twice with the intent of doing the traversal trick, but not once did the boss spawn close enough nor were we able to get the scarabs to pop up.  &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   16:51, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * I concur, you now need either Elonians heroes or two human monks to complete the bonus without using one of the tricks: one to keep hero alive under worm pounding, another to support the team assaulting the enemy generals. With pure Prophecies characters, solo bonus has gone up to a whole new level of difficulty. 83.159.9.78 04:42, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Wow, why is everyone so intent on KILLING THEMSELVES TO GET THE BONUS. You don't need to, just get two good monks (I mentioned above) a healer to help with bonus and a smiter to stay behind and help the ghost (while staying out of aggro range). It seems common sense isn't that common...
 * is it possible your information is out of date?

Current mission (no bonus)
Well, the actual mission, if you totally ignore the bonus, is not too hard anymore now that Heroes are out. Wurm Siege can strike for up to 100 damage dead-center now, and the two Monk henchmen (Alesia, Lina) were never designed to deal with that sort of thing. However I find that the easiest, most pain-free way to do things, even just using the Prophecies henchmen, is to go and eliminate the Siege Wurms whenever possible. It requires a fairly strong offense, because you don't want enemies attacking the Ghostly while you're busy with the Wurm; but that's not too hard to do. Anyways, I'll go edit the Strategy section now. Entropy 11:19, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Copyright stuff for new wiki.guildwars.com
I'm the author of "approach 6" bonus guide and relinquish any copyright I have on that text and allow it to be published in full and unmodified on wiki.guildwars.com in a similar article on this mission.
 * You did that when you wrote it on Guild Wiki. It's part of wiki policy.

LOL &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.237.103.13 (contribs).
 * What? No, bullshit. &mdash; Skuld 20:16, 12 May 2007 (CDT)

Mission with bonus : glitch
The necrotic traversal trick still works as of today (march 2007). I found (probably not the first, though) an interesting glitch that allows you to visit the outside castles for which the drawbridges are closed : you can just walk on plain air.



Also note that the party is heroes/henchmen only (Tahikora having the required necro skill), and that the henchmen are present (the trick for "calling" henchmen using the green flag thus still works).

Note that it does not appear possible to reenter the mission area using this method.Yves 17:13, 3 March 2007 (CST)
 * Made your image a thumbnail on this page, click for full size. Queen Schmuck 17:56, 3 March 2007 (CST)


 * Last I saw the walk on air trick, it worked both ways. The Necrotic Traversal?  Leave a dead pet etc. on the first side.  It works fine to get back. 141.154.14.247 14:01, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Bonus alt method 3
The map is too big for the page. Either resize it, or make it a thumbnail. At full size it distracts from the text, not enhances it. I wasn't sure what was being said until I saw the map, especially when the north/south was reversed. :P Queen Schmuck 17:10, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

Bonding for Bonus HOW-TO
This has been moved to User:Queen Schmuck/HOW-TO/Dunes of Despair - Bonding for Bonus.


 * That's the most erroneous advice ever. It applies to every form of play in GW. Sirocco 13:10, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * See reply on your user page. Queen Schmuck 18:04, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Erroneous? If it applies to all of GW it's hardly erroneous; I think you meant "redundant". And anyway, if these are really such wide-spread problems, there's no harm in repeating the advice where it particularly applies. --Bonjela 18:13, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Redundant is probably a better word, yes. Sirocco 19:00, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

You can do this with monk hero!
I went with a group (two rangers, three warriors, and monk hero). We equipped the monk hero with Necrotic Traversal and Rebirth. At the time of doing the bonus, we all put on Vampiric weapons and managed to get to the other side of the bridge due to the monk hero. We weren't sure if it was possible to get her to use Necrotic Traversal and Rebirth for that, but she did. We accomplished the bonus. It took awhile to kill ourselves with vamp weapons, but we did it! Just thought I should add in that you can do the bonus with a M/N monk HERO. :) Good luck, people! Morgan Fairweather 18:54, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That is strange. I tried to do the exact same thing, but I was using Mo/N with Consume Corpse and Unyielding Aura instead. It was working just fine, but at a certain point the Heroes just decided not to use CC anymore, even if there was a body right in front of them. So I managed the bonus by getting myself over, killing with OoP, and having UA repeatedly kill me so everyone else could CC across. It was messy but avoided party-wide DP. However, when I tried to get back across to continue mission, I went and aggroed some Scarabs west of the fort entrance. They died, and I hopped over the cliff with CC again. Once again I suicided...but, for whatever reason, none of my Heroes would use CC, even if I commanded them to by clicking the icon. I do not know what the problem was...Consume Corpse should be treated the exact same way as Necrotic Traversal, right? I'm confused... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:45, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You can order your hero to use necrotic Traversal/Consume Sorpse yourself, even if their AI isn't telling them to use it. Just click the number beside the hero's name and their skill bar will open for you. oops I must have missed the part about you ordering them to use it sorry.--Devils Apprentice 15:40, 11 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I even went back and tried to get Olias, Necro primary to do it. But, he still refused, even though every other corpse in the mission he was using CC on. I don't get it. AI must have trouble dealing with ledges. :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:24, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That's possible it was glitching or something. Though, we did not do bonus & mission at once. As I said, we accomplished the bonus but I didn't say the mission. It's easier to do them seperate. We already each had the mission itself, but needed the bonus. After we did the bonus, we goofed off and aggroed as many Jade Scarabs as possible, then died. xD Morgan Fairweather 02:04, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Ridiculously easy way to solo bonus with heroes
No special builds are required. Just take a competent team of 3 heroes and equip everyone with Necrotic Traversal. Start doing the mission as normal. When you reach the temple of ascension, leave your ghostly outside after he has opened the way in. Then proceed to southern edge of the temple, kill a scarab outside, Necrotic Traversal to it, pull 3 more scarabs to the edge and necrotic traversal your heroes. Simple! - 91.153.22.139 18:03, 8 April 2007 (CDT)


 * And just in case someone's interested, my team was me as protmonk, MM necro, interrupt ranger and nuker ritualist. - 91.153.22.139 18:05, 8 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Unless I'm mistaken, Necrotic Traversal leaves an exploited corpse. --Warwulf 12:30, 9 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Correct. That is why I had to pull 3 more scarabs to the edge. Minion summoning skills were naturally disabled during this. - 91.153.22.139 14:34, 9 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I got the bonus doing this way. However, I also had two henchman with me - obviously without necrotic transversal.  Somehow, after I and my heroes got across with necrotic transversal - they went THROUGH the middle drawbridge.  Additionally, the dots on the U map and the M map reset after the henchman come across.  Baron Diamon 15:49, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * This approach does, indeed, make things ridiculously easy. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 06:37, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

The only drawback to this method is that the scarab(s) do not always spawn close enough to the cliff edge to be spawned. If that happens, you have to start over. Also, as stated above, make sure your heroes do not have ANY other corpse exploitation spells active, or they will "waste" the scarab corpse you need to traverse the chasm.

Cartographer Notes
I just used the necrotic traversal / rebirth method on the Bonus of this mission, and having done the bonus i uncovered exactly 0.7% of the map of Tyria. This may help some people who are having problems. Note.... the dwarbridges are SEETHROUGH but do exist. In certain places around the edge there are enemies hidden by a bridge that looks impassable. Simply click the other side of the bridge and you literally walk over thin air to the other side, and you can also walk through the gate. This results in the the Dunes of Despair map having perfectly straight edges allong the south and western sides. Hope this helps :) - Hunter Darkbow ingame

Nerf?
Some alliance and I tried doing this last week and this week (numerous people needed the bonus in our alliance of a large scale) and everytime the scarabs did not show up and did not give them corpses. Several times, the boss and his cohorts were too far to even be shot at with longbows. Is this some sort of nerf that has been implamented? Anyone else have this problem this past week? Morgan Fairweather 01:43, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's the randomness of spawns. You'll have to just keep redoing the mission or work with the constraints. However, I don't think it's possible to survive long enough to do both the mission and bonus. --Kale Ironfist 02:06, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've pulled it off before. 2 humans and 4 henchies (before the introduction of Heroes) via Approach 2, though I used my own bonding build. -PanSola 02:11, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Bleh, tried the NT trick today, managed to lure 3 (!) scarabs and killed them all (one very close to the bridge - I could almost smell it :p ). NT didn't work, kept saying "invalid spell target" although I didn't have anything selected. Heroes had NT disabled. What did I do wrong ? --Erszebet 09:14, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nothing, there really are just times where NT and Consume Corpse refuse to work, for whatever reason. It is an exploit after all, you can't expect it to work 100% of the time because the designers never meant it to work at all. ;) As far as I know, though, the Boss' corpse works 100%, even on Heroes. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:33, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ah, didn't know that. It's ok though, tried again yesterday. Bought myself a crappy longbow to lure the boss and used his corps to travel. After that I pulled some scarabs for my heroes, which also worked this time. And flagged my henchmen over thin air to my side, which results in one very happy explorer...who still needs 0.9%, ugh :p --Erszebet 06:53, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I completed the bonus in hard mode using NT yesterday. Scarab spawned along the eastern wall. Also it "bugged" by my henchmen finally showing up to join me, first Claude, then Orion. Strange thing.

Monk boss was hard to kill in Hard Mode with my config (MB, N/Rt healer, SS, N/Mo protector) but I fixed it by fetching some more scarabs to use as minion bombs... this killed him fairly easy.

Don't need to suicide
It's clear to me that everyone is intent on killing themselves to get the bonus whereas you can do this mission and bonus in one go. We had a well balanced team with 2 monks. One for healing, the other was set for smiting. When we got to the ghost, we activated the final battle, the smiter stayed out of aggro range while casting buffs on the ghost (SoJ, balth aura, etc) while healing him occasionally (can't remember if he used just divine favour bonus or used other healing skills), while the rest of us went and killed the bosses. It wasn't that hard, and we didn't need to kill ourselves to do it. If you don't believe this is possible, pm Dr Elvis, he was the smiter (he usually helps people obtain the bonus in this fashion). YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME KILLING YOURSELF: and from what I've read, it isn't completely flawless either. Maybe a little more thought needs to go into your mission planning next time, people... King Neoterikos
 * In all fairness, trying to find even just one human monk, let alone two, probably is harder and takes more time then keep retrying the mission to get the right scarab spawn. The suicidal method has the additional benefit of uncovering a rather huge area of the map for the explorer title.  PUGs trying to find one healer AND one smiter will probably end up wasting more time. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:07, 12 May 2007 (CDT)
 * True. I neglected to take into account that I was in the right place at the right time in finding the right party. But hey, that's what guilds and alliances are for. King Neoterikos 18:51, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I have serious doubts, not to the fact that you did achieve the bonus easily, but to the idea that doing the bonus without suiciding is faster. It's true that it is not a completely flawless method...you need one scarab or any of the bosses but the Warrior one, and they must be in max bow range. However, if you are successful in getting a corpse to exploit, then the suicide method works 100% of the time unless you are so bad at GW that 15% DP overwhelms your party. Now, I've been using the suicide method since forever, and even when there's an occasion where it fails to work, it just means you have to do the mission and bonus normally. So really they're not mutually exclusive, even. But anyways. The time it takes to organize a good, strong fighting party, even if you go two players and Heroes (hench aren't good enough for bonus anymore), as well as the time wasted should you for some reason fail, is in my opinion much greater than the time it takes to restart and try again should the suicide method not be available. Since there is a cutscene right before reaching the Temple, it is pretty easy to just leave the Ghostly behind and have the party run there, avoiding fights along the way.

Finally, don't forget the single greatest benefit to the suicide method: it enables one to do the bonus solo, using just the regular henchmen available. All it takes is a Necro secondary and NT/CC...you may or may not have those right when you get to the Desert, but there really is nothing lost by ignoring the bonus for the time being and advancing until you can change class. The only other way I know of that a lone human player can do the bonus, is going all out with L20 Heroes, using stuff like SF and whatnot...steamrolling over the enemies with just 4 players. But that probably takes even more time than finding a good party as you did, so...meh. Of course, there wouldn't even be a need for suicide method if Hero AI for Monk skills was smart as humans...but it's not...Fear the day that ANet lets them work as efficient Bonders! >.> (T/C) 23:01, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Bug?
I was doing bonus and mapping the bonus section with 3 heroes with necrotic travelsal and 2 henchmans. When I was with heroes by the southwest corner my henchmen just appeared and ran towards me. So, is there a way to get to the bonus area without using necrotic travelsal?

Not a new bug, somewhere in above I mentioned it...it is a strange bug related to the hero/hench AI, noone really knows why it happens. This mission is also the only place it's regularly observed happening. An easy way to see, is use Necrotic yourself and go to the two Generals past the fort...let one kill you. You're out of radar range, but for some reason the Heroes/Hench will just "appear" and come rez you. Works almost every time, it's a cheap way to do the bonus for any Necro primary or secondary.

As to abusing it...well, I don't think it works unless you are far away from your Hench and Heroes. Since you would have to be over on the other side anyways, you still use Necrotic either way. I believe (never been confirmed) that you can also do Shadow Step across the bridge to get out of the fort. If you watch, sometimes a Jade Scarab will come up and get inside the fort by running across the bridges - even though they are not actually down. I think you could teleport through to them, but I have never been able to test it... (T/C) 19:02, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Dune Lizards
Losaru Bladehand? ==

A couple of times near the beginning of this mission, I noticed the siege worms fighting 'Dune Lizards' But one of these wasn't the normal tameable type but just a Losaru Bladehand renamed... has anyone else seen this? (Turkwoyz 09:00, 3 July 2007 (CDT))
 * Its a bug, sometimes enemies have a tamable pets name instead of their own. Lord of all tyria 09:52, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

The ol' teleporting henchmen
well i just completed the bonus mission 26/8/07 03:23am lol long night, after reading this site i decided to equip me and three hero's with Nec trav, and test out the theory's, i set off with three hero's and 2 hench, *Cuts a long story short as possible* well after luring enough scarabs to bring the 3 chosen over, i proceeded to tackle the fort full of generals. however my plan went bad, i got the monk boss and he wouldnt die for love nor money least to mention 2 monks, war and an ele, not that my ele hero is much good, but anyways back to the point, i decided to get the extra milage points for cartography title, and thought of the mention about teleporting hero's, well i flagged all hero's and hench to one point and went for a run, after a while i noticed the 2 hench that were originally left behind due to timer exploit were being hex'd .. yes they teleported, nothing new i hear u say, well i didnt die the entire game .. so there really is no need to die for this mission or to get ur hench to teleport 80.193.10.25 21:32, 25 August 2007 (CDT) Healing Swan

That's true but only if you can get enough Scarabs. Otherwise at least one player/hench must die...or perhaps you use the Flesh Golem trick. That means N/Mo or Mo/N though. If you can't get four Scarabs or three + the General, then you gotta start over if you don't want any deaths. I think you were pretty lucky, but like you said long night. Not everyone wants to spend so much time, and death only hurts Survivors (T/C) 08:35, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

No shadow-stepping?
Is there a reason that shadow stepping across after someone uses NT (with recall or ebon escape) doesn't work? I have tried at every possible point all around the temple to get to the person who NT'd out there with no success. Maybe I'm missing something silly about using these skills in this situation, but I had in mind a no death, trick the timer run for HM. Any ideas? Jaxgreystar 14:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Shadowsteps limitations as opposed to teleportation means it can't go somewhere you cannot walk to. Lord of all tyria 15:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well that clears it up for me. I knew it was some small thing that I had overlooked about shadow stepping. Thank you sir. Or should I say My Lord. Jaxgreystar 16:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Strategies:
I was reading up on some strategies, and of the 6, 5 involve using Teleporting (Consume Corpse/Necrotic Traversal) and that's annoying. Someone should read the entire article and revise it. I will do it later if I have to, but don't want someone to go and revert my edit just because they think the million strategies should stay in place. --ChristopherRodrigues 22:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * only approach 3 uses those skills... Cress Arvein 22:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) /agree, only three and if you counted its varients separately it only showed up twice --Shadowcrest 22:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The way I saw it, there's only two ways of doing the mission: One is protect the Ghost and the other us Teleport. In any case, there are variations and variations of the variations, and it kind of seemed like the BUILDS page. Where do we draw the line? Watch, I come up with another way of doing the mission, only this time it involves a similar yet different strategy, and I add it to the page! So for me, it's either A: Trick the timer or B: Don't trick the timer. It's like Sanctum Cay mission, where everyone made a huge deal of how to complete bonus, when the easiest way was to finish the mobs, then simply head to the gravesite.. Ehh, whatever. I guess I'm the only one who got frustrated over all the cluster.......... --ChristopherRodrigues 02:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * While I don't agree with the reason given for cleanup, I do think the article could use a bit of trimming. It needs updating at the very least. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hall of Heroes
In cutscene 1, Ghostly Hero says "The gods gaze down from the Hall of Heroes, granting their favor to those who control the throne." Not true anymore. Should it be noted? -- Peej 02:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He's referring to the throne in the mission that you're stealing from the other jerkwad Ghostly --Gimmethegepgun 02:23, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

My, this page is a mess
For all the loquacious writing, some key game mechanics of how the mission works that are necessary to form a coherent strategy are conspicuously missing. Particularly missing is the wurm details: their spawn times, locations, and behavior. Also needed is information on the groups that spawn and attack when you kill a general. But right now, the page is enough of a mess that even if those details were added, one would be hard-pressed to find them.

The solution, I think, is that we don't need eight different bonus strategies. If they were eight good strategies, perhaps, but that's not what we have. Three of them (3, 3a, and 3aa) are variations on a single strategy, and don't all need a big write-up. But those are currently the best of the bunch.

1 is too sparse on details to be useable. 4 belongs as a tip in some other strategy, not a separate strategy by itself. 2, 5, and 6 are builds, not strategies, and no better of builds than what someone who has never before tried the mission might randomly guess. 2 and 6 seem to assume that the player is a monk primary. 2 is goofy enough that even if it can be made to work, it probably still isn't a good idea.

Also missing is a straightforward way for an average Prophecies character who has just reached the mission for the first time to use what he has and do the bonus with just henchmen. For this, I blame ArenaNet. The henchmen builds match up terribly against this mission. A necromancer could use the necrotic traversal method to get the bonus only, and a domination mesmer might be able to supply enough DPS to make a more direct approach work, but that's about it.

What I propose to do is to combine stratgies 3, 3a, and 3aa into a single logical strategy with a few alternatives, and delete strategies 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 entirely. In their place, I'd put a clear strategy that requires heroes, but not terribly exotic skills, and can reliably get both the mission and bonus with just heroes and henchmen. The crux of my strategy is that if Norgu has leech signet, power drain, and wastrel's worry (all available in Prophecies no later than Maguuma Stade), he can solo a siege wurm in about 45 seconds. Dead siege wurms won't kill the ghostly hero.

I'll need a few days to tweak my strategy. Mainly, I need to see how predictable the extra groups that spawn when a general dies are, and see if an inconvenient spawn place for the monk boss can cause trouble. If I don't get any objections to deleting the bulk of the page by then, I'll go ahead with the rewrite. Quizzical 10:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The Wurms spawn at a particular time, that's true. But information and behavior? Well, they just spam Wurm Siege, and seem to favor targeting the Ghostly Hero. Other enemy groups also spawn at specific times and behave similarly. I suppose it would be useful to note the exact makeup of each group of reinforcements.
 * 2 Arcanists from the west, north, and east respectively
 * 2 Arcanists from the west
 * 2 Enchanted Bow from the north
 * 1 Enchanted Sword and 1 Enchanted Hammer from the east
 * Random boss group from north (if you didn't kill them already)
 * Random boss group from east
 * Random groups spawn when you kill a General

...I know there are more, and those are out of order, but it is something like that.


 * As for the bonus strategies, I think you're right...they ought to be merged.


 * An average Prophecies player using just henchmen stands almost no chance today of getting the bonus the normal way, and doing the mission won't be very easy either. Even if you're playing as a Full Bonder, the henchmen just can't deal enough damage to take out Generals fast enough, and/or the Ghostly dies while you are away. Since you don't have Heroes you cannot flag one of them to solo a Wurm, either. Oh, and a note about Norgu: Try using Power Spike for a faster kill. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * In soloing a siege wurm, leech signet and power drain are energy management. That they prevent wurm siege from completing is only incidental.  Power spike is not energy management, and if the hero runs out of energy, could make the fight take much, much longer.  One could bring other energy management skills to compensate, but they wouldn't be terribly useful in the rest of the mission.  Between interrupts, armor ignoring damage against all types of mobs, enchantment removal, a rez signet, and some defensive skill, a mesmer is short on skill slots as it is, even without using up a couple for pure energy management.


 * There are other missing wurm details, too. One can't hope to come up with a good strategy to kill them without knowing that they have extremely high armor (~160 was my estimate about ten months ago) and have hexes and conditions last only half the normal length.  Also critical to know is that they don't start attacking until someone comes near.  You can neutralize at least one wurm entirely just by staying away from it after it pops up.


 * And I really don't get the whole bonder monk bit. What's the advantage of leaving a bonder monk with the ghostly hero to be shorthanded for the duration of the mission over sending a mesmer out to kill wurms for a couple minutes, then having him with you to help kill the generals?  Quizzical 22:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Energy management? Aren't you using MoR and Energy Drain? Fast Casting doesn't help you much in this mission.


 * The actual article on the Siege Wurm does state that they have extremely high armor, natural resistance, and health regen, but I guess it is not mentioned here. So that would be good to port. The part about not attacking is false, though: all the ones that spawn around the temple will attack the Ghostly Hero, no matter if players are standing nearby or not. Anywhere even close to the Hero gets them started, and their firing range/aggro is...huge. If you managed to get out to the Generals before even the first one spawned (dunno how) then maybe it's different...but that is asking a lot of an average player.


 * The point is that if you are an average Prophecies player doing this with just henchmen, you don't have a Mesmer to send out and kill wurms when they spawn. And as such, you either need to drag the entire party around killing wurms (no bonus that way) or you need to stay near the Ghostly to heal and protect him (he dies otherwise). If you're playing as a Monk and you go Bonder, then you can at least keep the whole party safe until it's time to leave and kill the Generals. At this point, you have to stay behind and take care of the Ghostly. But like I said, the henchmen aren't powerful enough to take out the Generals on their own...and commanding them by flagging from such a distance is a delicate art. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * When fighting the wurms, power drain is more effective energy management than either of those skills--and without using up your slot for an elite. Even if some other approach could kill wurms faster, 45 seconds to solo a wurm is plenty fast enough.


 * No, the siege wurms do not fire until someone comes close. A henchman or hero coming close will trigger them, but as long as the whole party stays out of range, the wurm will sit there idle.  Once aggroed, though, they'll keep firing away (at the ghostly hero if nothing else) even if the party gets out of range.  I had an awful time with trying to do the mission (not bonus) with just henchmen until I figured that out.


 * Well yes, a direct approach with only henchmen won't have enough damage to clear the mission and bonus with a direct approach, whether my way or any other on the wiki, with the possible exception of a mesmer player who gets lucky on boss spawns. I don't see why it's legitimate to assume that the player is a monk, but illegitimate to assume that the player is a mesmer.  Quizzical 22:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * My point was that since you're using WW anyways for the bulk of damage dealing, you might as well speed up the process by using MoR for e-management. Unless you are using some other Elite which is critical for mission success (you didn't specify). Power Spike is also handy against the Forgotten casters.


 * Okay, so how do you get the entire party out of range? The first Wurm that spawns on the west could be avoided if you let the Arcanists come to you. You could avoid the second Wurm on the east, if you let the final boss group run to you. But, I almost always have the Slow Totem on that side to hinder the Arcanists at the beginning of the siege - they don't reach the Ghostly until I've secured the east side and engaged or killed the north group. Unless you flagged the hench north to intercept the Forgotten Bows, while you ran to grab the Slow Totem...then you would be sitting for excessive time waiting for the boss group to move through it. Finally, the last Wurm that spawns at the north is unavoidable if you are doing bonus, since you'll run right by it. If you are very lucky it may keep aggro on you, but once you leave range it will start on the Ghostly. And while 1 Wurm is better than 3, that seems like a lot of trouble to go to, and precious time wasted waiting.


 * I am not sure what you mean about assuming that the player is X. I was just saying that that's the worst case scenario. Bonder has pretty much your lowest damage output, while Mesmer probably has the highest (in this mission). But either way, like you say, you need to get really really lucky to achieve bonus at either end of the spectrum, using a direct approach...I just don't see how you can do it. No matter what class combination the player has, the hench just aren't good enough for any sort of approach. If the Wurms ignored the Ghostly (as they used to) then you had a chance, albeit a small one...but you still had to be fast and efficient, because the additional spawns after a General's death would make short work of the Ghostly within about a minute anyways. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been giving Norgu shatter storm so far. I might try power block or energy surge once I try hard mode, but I don't think the elite makes that big of a difference.  More to the point, Norgu can kill a wurm in about 45 seconds, and even if you could shave a few more seconds off of that, it wouldn't make much difference.


 * If you're doing the bonus, you can clear everything in the immediate vicinity and be out of range before the last siege wurm spawns. If you're not doing the bonus, there's no need to go near the south siege wurm after it spawns.  You may not be able to avoid all of the siege wurms, but just avoiding one can make a big difference.


 * There isn't a big hurry to run back to save the ghostly hero when the extra groups spawn from killing a general. Grab the extra groups where they spawn and kill them there, and they'll never come remotely near the ghostly hero.  As for where they spawn, that's another of the critical details currently missing in the write-up.  Quizzical 23:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The only Enchantment to be worried of in this mission is Kinetic Armor, and that's easy to interrupt, so you could probably replace SS with something better. Meh. E-Surge is nice. On a related note, have you tried going E/Me? I believe you can kill the Wurms faster that way. You still spam WW, but because of Energy Storage you can spam for longer before needing an energy regain. Opening with Energy Blast works nicely as well. I'd like to calculate the difference in DPS sometime and see which is better...


 * You must have a very efficient strategy, in that case. Even when I have had a fast round, that Wurm appears while I'm fighting scarabs after crossing the bridge. You can take out the boss before you start, which is nice, but dragging 3 or more Scarabs into a fight with the Generals (using henchmen only) makes it that much more difficult. They won't lose aggro easily, either. So it is lose-lose.


 * The extra groups spawn outside your range. Unless you pulled the Generals to the very entrances of the compound, you won't be able to reach those groups because they start running immediately. I believe the spawn points are always at the opposite entrance to the compound from the General you kill, but I cannot recall exactly. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If the mesmer is only a mesmer secondary, he can't use mesmer runes. I'd think that 53 damage per cast of wastrel's worry instead of 60 would cost more time than you hope to save from the extra energy.  It would certainly make the hero less useful elsewhere in the mission.  For what it's worth, the other heroes I've been using are Margrid with punishing shot and a pet and Sousuke with a searing flames build.  That's not essential to the strategy, but those are just heroes I use a lot unless I have a reason to bring something else instead.


 * It's not hard to see when a general is about to die. When that's going to happen, send either a player or a hero toward the spawn point of the extra group and get their attention when they pop up.  Quizzical 23:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There, I cleaned up the page. Let's see if shortening it by more than 8000 bytes attracts attention on the recent changes list.  :D


 * I might have to make some tweaks once I try the mission in hard mode, but the basic strategy seems to have enough leeway that it can probably be made to work in hard mode. I was able to get both the mission and bonus in some sloppy runs trying to work out the precise tactics, and while personally carrying some rather ill-thought out builds that didn't fit the mission.  Quizzical 00:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I've gotten the bonus in hard mode with my method, though the mission failed when the ghostly hero died in the closing seconds. In retrospect, I could have avoided that and gotten both in one run. The run had modest luck, killing one boss and one enchanted before starting the siege, but not being able to finish that one group (and hence the three forgotten that spawn when it dies), and the group also had to fight the monk boss later. I'm convinced that my method can work for both mission and bonus in a single run in hard mode, but the group doesn't have a lot of leeway, needing either a nearly flawless run, to clear a full general group before the siege starts, or to avoid drawing the monk boss. Quizzical 02:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I finally got mission and bonus in the same run in hard mode, on the fifth try. Therefore, it is possible.  Quizzical 06:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Just done this in HM with a competent guildmate consisting of Team 1: AP Nuker, MM and a Resto N/Rt... Team 2: AP Nuker, MM and a Prot WoH Hybrid Monk. We split to intercept the groups initially until seige wurms came. Needles to say, Pain Invert + Minions = instant wurm meat. After killing the wurms, we dispatched the boss spawn@east gate and quickly ran to the south gate with around 5minutes to spare. We took the first boss group sideways so that when the boss died, we could aggro the spawn of the forgotten quite easily. Once we took down that extra spawn, we ran in and ganked the Boss and their small patrol, ignoring the extra spawns that spawn after the death of a boss. We quickly dispatched those two bosses and obtained the bonus on 00:01. We did not glitch this Mission or the bonus in HM and managed to obtain both the Mission and Bonus rewards. --Call Me Rexy 13:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Whoops, I meant the boss group@west gate. --Call Me Rexy 13:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

One of the few articles
That the Official GWW does 100% better than this one. Seriously, this article is a joke. It isn't clear, and is very hard to read. Apparently there are some arguments above, so I don't wanna cause a revert war but ill give it a shot.Gorbachev116 03:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The bulk of the article is about the bonus, which is the hard part of the mission. Is there some reason to prefer the official wiki's advice to run around crazily and hope you get lucky, rather than the details here that will allow you to do the mission even if you're just barely strong enough?  Perhaps you get a good deal of leeway if you have heroes (i.e., a higher level party than the mission intended) in easy mode, but hard mode is far less forgiving.  The first three methods on the official wiki are far too sparce on details to be useable, unless you have a dramatically stronger party than the mission is designed for.


 * Both this wiki and the official one explain how to warp through the walls to do the bonus only. The official wiki article is a little fuzzy on exactly how to get across the walls.  In particular, the official wiki doesn't explain at all how to get henchmen and heroes across, which is absolutely vital for most parties to be able to make it work.  The official wiki's approach to getting back across to do the mission after the bonus also usually doesn't work, whereas the one here is guaranteed to work every single time.


 * Sure, this article is complicated. But so is the mission.  Telling people to run around attacking things at random and hope they get lucky is not a strategy.  Or is there some other official wiki article that I missed?  Quizzical 04:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Umm, have you actually looked at it? It's in a well thought out easy to read format. This is just a jumble of words. It makes no sense.IN fact, I had MORE trouble using this article, thats why I went to the other. This is a mess.Gorbachev116 02:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If ease of reading matters and the substance of what is actually there doesn't, wouldn't a blank page be better still? The problem with the write-up on the official wiki is that it doesn't actually explain how to do the bonus.  This article does.  Quizzical 03:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When I used the GWW article, I beat it the first time. Because its concise and tells you what the point is. It completely explained it. This told me what i had to do, but not how. Not everyone is as good as you think you are. It has to be easy to read and has to tell you what to do-just like the GWW does. You didn't even read it, most likely. Just a zealot. Typical.Gorbachev116 00:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Just to make sure, you're talking about this official wiki article, right? And you're talking about doing the bonus for Dunes of Despair, right?  If not, then we seem to have a misunderstanding.  You haven't offered a bit of detail on why you prefer the official wiki explanation, so let's go into detail in comparing them.  Otherwise, let's have a look at the methods posted there.


 * Method one: Just focus on the mission first Kill the incoming mobs, then go do the bonus.  And how do you know when you've killed all of the incoming mobs, so that it's safe to go do the bonus?  The article doesn't say.  Indeed, if you wait for the incoming mobs to all come in, you're too late and are guaranteed to fail the bonus unless you brought massively more firepower than is really required.  That's a terrible thing to assume in a wiki article.


 * The next problem is that while it mentions that killing generals makes more mobs spawn and go attack the ghostly hero, it doesn't explain what to do about it. If you just ignore them, the ghostly hero dies, causing mission failure.  If you stop to go back and kill them, you run out of time.  If you're fast enough, in easy mode, you may be able to ignore them and finish the bonus before failing the mission due to the ghostly hero's death.  In hard mode, there's no chance of that unless you're using various cheats.


 * Method two: Use the pause Wait until you've killed the arcanists, and then go do the bonus.  And how do you know that all of the arcanists are dead?  If you try this, the siege wurm that pops up at 8:20 will nuke the Ghostly Hero causing mission failure.  The only possible thing that could save you is if you have vastly more firepower than would really be necessary to do the mission.  And more than you'd need to make method one work, for that matter.  And shorthanded, no less, if you're leaving a bonder monk with the Ghostly Hero to stand there and die.  Seriously, what's this weird obsession with using bonder monks in this mission?  I've tried them, and they don't work.


 * Method three: Some now and the rest later After the arcanists are clear, go kill one general, then come back to finish the siege, and then revert to method one.  And how do you know when all the arcanists are gone?  It might be possible to make this work, if you can get back before the first wurm nukes the Ghostly Hero.  But it's both safer and requires less running around to go kill the incoming mobs where they stop and wait before coming in than to go kill a general.  The latter also makes it dramatically easier to get out of the fort before the fourth wurm of the siege spawns at 3:20.  If you're not out by then, you're not finishing the bonus, unless, again, you have massively more firepower than you'd really need by a better strategy.


 * Method four: Teleport You warp across the wall to do the bonus before the mission starts.  If your party is all players and heroes, the method works.  And if you're going with henchmen and heroes, how do you get them all across the wall?  The article doesn't say.  Henchmen won't suicide, you know, and you can't use rebirth on a character that isn't dead.  So instead, at best, you're fighting shorthanded, and quite possibly, you fail entirely.


 * And what if you want to do the mission after the bonus by the warping method? This isn't necessary, but it does save time, and it is more aesthetically pleasing to be able to do both in a single run.  Well, you can go hunting for another corpse to warp back.  It probably won't be there, though, so you're relying on dumb luck.


 * So let's compare all of that to what we have on this wiki. The first method here is kind of analogous to the first method on the official wiki.  Except that here, it says the order in which mobs spawn and where.  It states exactly when the siege wurms spawn, and where.  It explains how a single hero can solo a siege wurm, which can save you a lot of time.  It explains where to run to intercept groups as they come in, rather than waiting a minute or two.  And that saves you a minute or two, of course.  If waiting means you can't get out before the fourth wurm of the siege spawns, you'll have to go kill an extra wurm to keep the Ghostly Hero alive.  That also takes time, and this wiki explains how to avoid it.


 * And what about the extra forgotten groups that spawn when a general's group dies? The official wiki mentions them only in passing.  This wiki explains when and where they spawn.  That makes it so that you can grab them before they can get away, and kill them to keep the Ghostly Hero safe.  And more to the point, do this without having to run back into the fort--which will make it necessary to kill the fourth wurm that spawns in the siege, wasting time and probably costing you the bonus.


 * So the advantage of the official wiki is, err, what exactly? It's shorter, yes.  But if leaving out essential details is your idea of a better article, a blank section would surely be better still.  And that would be reverted for vandalism.


 * The fourth method on the official wiki is analogous to the second one here. The main difference is that this one explains how to get henchmen and heroes through the wall quite easily.  There's no need to kill your heroes or make them all be a necro secondary.  If you're going henchmen/heroes, surely you can see why being able to get your entire party through the wall makes things easier than having to leave two characters behind.  And if you have just henchmen and not heroes, being able to get the henchmen across the wall is far more important yet.


 * And what if you'd like to do the mission after the bonus? The official wiki gives a method that relies on a lot of dumb luck, beyond that of trying to get across the wall in the first place, so it usually won't work.  This one gives you a method that is guaranteed to work every single time.  The only luck involved is getting across the wall the first time, which the method of each wiki has to rely on.


 * So in this comparison, what's the advantage of the official wiki, again? That it leaves out some useful details, which could have made things a lot easier for you?  What is the point of that, exactly?


 * So there, I think I've made it pretty clear that I've read the article on both wikis. You've yet to say much beyond repeatedly asserting that you think the official wiki article is better.  Care to elaborate?


 * When I initially wanted to do the bonus here with just henchmen, neither wiki gave a viable method to do so. I had to do a Google search and fish around for a while to find a method that actually worked elsewhere on the Internet.  The official wiki still doesn't say how to do the bonus with only henchmen, so a player who has Prophecies only is pretty much out of luck if all he has is the official wiki.  This one does explain how to do the bonus with just henchmen.  It also explains how to do the bonus in hard mode by two different methods.  The official wiki only gives one method that has any shot at all of working in hard mode, and even that one pretty much assumes that your party is entirely players and heroes, and no henchmen.  Quizzical 02:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And the lesson we learn here is: don't compare the official wiki to us. We're very touchy about the subject, and we are prepared to defend ourselves on any matter with an impenetrable wall of text.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not just any wall of text: It's over 7Kb. (now if it only was over 9Kb..) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  03:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean, yes, we don't like the official wiki that much < but does that really justify (+7,373) ?[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

(RI) That being said, though, Quizzical is right. Our guide actually tells you what to instead of the general idea GWW gives you. Entrea   [Talk]  03:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As I see it, it's not about whether the official wiki or this one is better. It's about whether methods that do work or methods that don't work are better.  And I prefer methods that do work.


 * Gorbachev three times basically asserted that the official wiki article on this mission was better than the one here, for no apparent reason in particular. I asserted that he was wrong twice, giving a bit of detail one of them, but he wasn't buying it.  What was I supposed to do, assert that he was wrong a third time?  There's also this effect (and in case you're not familiar with the site, mouseover it for the last line).  Quizzical 04:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Another way to complete the bonus
I just found another working way to succesfully accomplish the bonus only. The team is based on the SabWay, so an SS hero, a Ritualist helaing hero and an MM hero, plus 2 melees, the two henchmen are enough. Finally, you should bring Ursan, no matter the Norn Rank (I did it with rank 3). The process is simple: after killing the enemy Ghostly Hero, flag near his corpse your MM hero and run towards the bridge that leads you to the three generals. Now just kill them and their Enchanted as fast as you can: your Ghostly Hero should stay alive long enough.


 * Your MM sometimes will die while killing the second general. Don't care about it, the Ghostly Hero will still live long enough.


 * If you encounter some foes while running to the generals, kill them.

Counters

 * If one of the generals spawns as a monk, it could be a pain to kill, because you're technically the only one to deal real damage.

--Othrandor Evel 08:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)