Talk:Guild Wars Nightfall/Archive 5

Inscriptions
I just picked up the latest issue of PC Gamer (the same one subscribers got weeks ago). According to the article, weapon modifiers are going to be converted into salvageable 'inscriptions', which looks like it'll have the biggest impact on the game economy since the addition of green items. The good news is that this is going to make perfect mod common / unpopular skin items (including wands, staves, foci and shields, which aren't worth much now, especially if they match crafter / collector items) worth something. It'll also lower the price of perfect stat rare skin items, which is good news or bad news depending on what position you're in. Assuming that the feature doesn't get scrapped like skill gems or the original martial artist version of the Dervish. -- Gordon Ecker 23:03, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I like it, although I have all the money I would need for anything. It will just make thing gso much easier, as I HATE trading with people. I can just salvage a nice inscription from a crappy item I find somewhere and add it to a good item I find somewhere else. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 13:39, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure I entirely understand what you mean (I can't get the mag here till almost same date as game release). Am I to understand by this that all the weapon modifiers (after salvaging) will be able to be placed on ANY weapon, and not limited to the one they were found on? hadz 20:52, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'll quote from the article:
 * "Inscriptions" will take the place of inherent bonus modifiers for weapons and can be transferred between most weapons or sold for quick cash. The armor system will be simplified to allow you to replace individual components (say, a breastplate) instead of purchasing a whole new set. Nightfall will also help crafters by allowing them to select which component they would like to salvage from a weapon, with the extra bonus of not having the rest of the weapon disintegrate after the process is complete. (PC Gamer, Nov 2006, pp 40-42) &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae  21:34, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmm, so effectively you only ever have to buy one "Enchant +20% duration" inscription, and you can move it around (as long as you're willing to use up Salvage packs). Interesting, we'll see how it turns out when it hits the light of day. hadz 22:10, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It says it'll no longer destroy the weapon, there's still a chance it might occasionally break the upgrade, or that there's a risk of destroying the weapon instead of a 100% chance of destroying it. -- Gordon Ecker 20:42, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I am fully in support of these "inscriptions". Then again I'm a casual gamer... Kessel 05:08, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I am loving everything that I'm hearing. How many times have I found an attractive weapon in the knowledge that, without a good innate modifier, it's really not much use. But no more. I already have a stockpile of white weapons I'm saving in the hopes I can soup them up after Nightfall comes out. Cheers! :) Arshay Duskbrow 03:22, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The latest IGN article says there's another new item type called armor insignia. -- Gordon Ecker 04:26, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The GW insider says that success on removing an inscription will be tied to your wisdom title. --Shadow Lord 18:16, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The armor system will be simplified to allow you to replace individual components (say, a breastplate) instead of purchasing a whole new set. - Is it just me who finds this as the single most blatant statement that "We have no idea what we're saying and are interpreting a basic blurb we've been given as best we can without having ever played the game"? I'm just so used to seeing things like this in magazine articles, things which blatantly show little to no understanding of what they're talking about and a whole lot of guesswork extrapolating from a limited amount of material they've actually had made available. Then again, this is a major part of why I, like most of the gaming community, stopped buying magazines about five years back. But I digress. This inaccuracy is the strongest indication that we can't take anything they say about anything at face value until Nightfall is actually in our hands. --Sunyavadin 05:38, 23 October 2006 (BST)
 * Well, I take that to mean that you will be able to change "supplementary" armor properties without having to buy the armor piece again. For example you could change the chest piece from a +15 armor when casting to +10 against physical (for a mesmer, I think those armor stats are right).  In all I think Anet appear to be making the game even more modular and less expensive for those who want to change around their stats (just like when they reduced the restrictions on changing attributes to zero).  In other words when you've just bought that 15k Kurzick Mesmer armor and you want to have +10 against Physical on it instead of the +energy you can change it with an inscription, rather than buying the WHOLE piece again.  But, like you said...we will only find out for sure in 4 days time :) hadz 01:20, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd be quite happy if they'd allow the use of that ability on existing Tyrian sets. I still want something with the look of 15k bonelace, but its stats are pretty worthless to my builds. --Sunyavadin 19:10, 23 October 2006 (BST)

Inscription salvaging will not be tied to your Wisdom title, I guarantee it. The simple reason is that that would do precisely what Anet is most committed to avoiding: Give veteran/long-standing players an unfair play advantage over everyone else. If that were the case, inscriptions would not be cheap, but massively expensive due to only high Wisdom holders being able to salvage them reliably, and they would be used to line the pockets of those seasoned players at the expense of the ones who couldn't do it for themselves. That's not how it's going to be, I promise you. Arshay Duskbrow 01:30, 23 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm sorry, but you're wrong. This is directly from Arena Net: "We’ll also be updating some existing titles this way. For instance, after Nightfall releases, you’ll actually have a chance of successfully removing a magic component, like a Fiery Sword Hilt, without destroying the item it’s attached to. The Wisdom title (earned by identifying items) will improve your ability to do this.". See for yourself on their website: It's the second article, talking with Lead Designer James Phinney. Read the last question. --Shadow Lord 02:28, 23 October 2006 (CDT)


 * That has absolutely nothing to do with inscriptions or the ability to salvage them. Nothing. It has to do with the ability to remove an upgrade from an item without destroying it. Which is actually something I am in favor of, since being able to (relatively) safely remove upgrades will improve the economy. People (with the titles) won't be so leery of trying to salvage them, which will lead to better supply and low prices. This has absolutely nothing to do with inscriptions. Arshay Duskbrow 02:57, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Agreed. I like that the titles will actually have tangible benefits related to them. It's a nice touch more in line with more conventional MMOs. --Sunyavadin 19:10, 23 October 2006 (BST)
 * As far as I can tell, inscriptions are replacing weapon and armor mods. If I'm wrong, sorry. Either way, we will find out in 2 days! YAAY! Nightfall. --Shadow Lord 23:01, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Brother Mhenlo
Seeing as how heavily Brother Mhenlo was involved in the story of factions, do you think he'll have a big role in Nightfall as well? Guiding the player through the land and helping the player solve problems within the story? Assassinman 14:05, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Atleast not in the beginning, but he might join the story line like he did in Factions. I rather like him so I would be happy to have him and the other old friends join me on my trip to Elona. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:23, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Unless I'm mistaken, I've seen him in the 2nd Nightfall video...1:04 bottom, 1:07 middle/bottom (other fight) --[[Image:Animate_Flesh_Golem.jpg|25px]] Torins (talk) 14:27, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's the big question! Will Brotha Mhenlo be pimping the Elonian ladies like he did the Canthan? Only time will tell. --Theeth (talk)   14:29, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I was thinking maybe Kormir would introduce him, once you leave the island, like how Togo introduced him when you left the island in factions. And maybe they would share some type of past together, like something involving the sunspears.  I just hope Kormir doesn't share the same fate as Togo. Assassinman 14:39, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I would be sorely disappointed if it was so. Mhenlo can't have been everywhere. If we're going to be followers of the ANet chars again, at least make it Devona, or Aidan, or something, instead of it being Mhenlo again. Better yet would be to have them left out of it, and meeting Kormir ourselves after she goes to recruit help from Tyria and Cantha. But if it is Mhenlo, I wonder who the Canthan liason would be? Jamei? --Valentein 22:29, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm thinking that Valentein is probably correct about this. If a particular person, this time it's going to be one of the other main "crew"... Perhaps Aidan or Eve or someone? Wouldn't necessarily have to have a Factions liason because Factions people have met them too. --Tisiphone 22:39, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I doubt Mhenlo was the only foreign exchange student at Shing Jea Monastery. It's also possible that Cynn knew an Elonian foreign exchange student at Surmia Academy or Eve knew one from Nolani Academy . There's also the possibility of someone having an Elonian cousin, or even an Elonian parent. -- Gordon Ecker 20:42, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd be disappointed if Mhenlo was in Nightfall too; would rather see new characters. But if they did, it'll be something like: Reach Kryta -> received Togo's call for help -> go Cantha -> Defeat Shiro -> Back to Crystal Desert for Ascension -> Gone south to Elona. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 20:50, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * In the #2 Trailer (available at http://www.guildwars.com/gallery/video/), both Mhenlo and Devona are visible in combat. That doesn't make it certain they'll be involved in Nightfall at all, but I too wish Anet would move on from the "Heroes of Ascalon". Arshay Duskbrow 21:06, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, our play characters from other campaigns ARE heroes from Ascalon and they are fighting and travelling together with Mhenlo and friends. To me it makes sense if the whole group moves together. You are saying that Mhenlo can't be everywhere, but why could our hero then? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 05:10, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Cause our heroes paid $150 in money, they earned it! Mhenlo is a bum! --Karlos 05:47, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * If the monsters are going to be as hard as the afflicted in Cantha, then it would be nice to have the third healer(Mhenlo) join us again. And Gem makes a good point as well. The laws of who's been where at what time also involves the main characters(us).  If they decided to involve a different ascalon hero, then I would hope it would be someone a bit more trustworthy than Eve or Cynn.  While their personalities are great and different, they can be seen as non trustworthy personalities.  Would I trust someone who speaks to a skull and calls it Adam and claims it talks back to her?  Or would I trust someone with a mind that isn't clear and gets easily frustrated?  (storywise)I'd rather have someone in my group that I could trust and one that makes good decisions...Devona, Aidan, and/or Mhenlo.  Assassinman 12:35, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Now, don't you go trash-talking my girl Eve! Sure, she may be slightly off her rocker, but what necromancer isn't? And she makes the perfect fit for the Elonan campaign, given its initial focus on uppity undead and Eve's mysterious origins. I'd love to see her as part of the Elonan storyline. --- ChaoticCoyote 12:53, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Please tell me more of Eve's "perfect fit" for Elona, as I wasn't aware of it before. Also, where would she fit in the storyline?  When would she be introduced?  And why didn't she travel with Mhenlo and gang during most of their travels in Tyria and Cantha, yet has been said to travel with them in various descriptions of her?  All I'm saying is, Eve has been a very minor character so far in both campaigns, and she was barely looked at in campaign 2.  I understand some people are fans of Eve as they are fans of other minor yet known characters, but I just find it highly unlikely(not to mention coming up with a story between her and the sunspears) and think that she won't be the one at Elona helping you during the story.  Assassinman 14:27, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, at the end of the preview, Kormir did say that some friends from Tyria (and maybe Cantha) were coming to help. If they go by what they did in Cantha, then it has to be someone who is likely to have a former relationship with the Sunspears (like Mhenlo and Togo). That, to me, would exclude Eve and Cynn. And why is no one talking about Dunham?! :) I would suspect someone older among the Shing Jea crew, like Talon or the good Professor, and then either Aidan or Devona on the Tyrian side. --Karlos 18:39, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I was wrong, Eve didn't go to Nolani Academy. She went to a boarding school for girls with discipline problems run by the church of Dwayna, and got expelled because they didn't think her Mike Tyson impression was funny. Anyway, we don't know who her parants and Adam are or where they're from. -- Gordon Ecker 23:30, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * The initial "bad guys" in Elona are undead; Eve is a necromancer. The connections seems obvious. And Eve's origins are unknown, ANet could come up with a several storylines to connect her with Elona. Given that she was one of the primary "box art" characters for Prophecies, it seems ANet planned "bigger things" for her than simply making pithy comments. -- ChaoticCoyote 08:10, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Dunham, please. Let's buff his skill set and make him the leader of the heroes of Ascalon..! :D PedroPickles 08:33, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Turai Ossa would be a spiffy guide. He confronts Varesh and disowns her from the Ossa line permanently before laying down some ghostly punishment. How realistic that would be, I don't know, but I do hope they have some kind of comment for Ascended characters about our interactions with Turai. --Valentein 09:23, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You can forget about Dunham getting upgraded. Him and Claude have NO personality. And being box art seems to get you nothing with ANet. Nika was box art, just like Eve, and it got her about as much development as Eve. I would think that Turai Ossa will have some part in the storyline, or else why use his name and make the baddie his desendant. Otherwise they could have made up a new character, and left Turai Ossa as just "the Ghostly Hero". I definitly saw Mhenlo, Adian, and Cynn in the last video, and would assume the the other tyrians in the group are there too. It's also possible that a few canthan hench will be here too. I saw Jatoro Musagi, and Nehdukah was talking about the black moa and Zho. A few other things I have figured out: all your other characters can get heroes and take them back to Tyria and Cantha, all pre-existing characters will arrive in Kamadan, I also see a connection between the tentacles and the rift at the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, and Nightfall's banished god Abbadon, in a few of the screenshots released by ANet. -- Shadow Lord 08:30, 6 October 2006 (CDT)


 * No matter how they introduce them old fellows, as long as they don't start again like this: "Hi, we're from Ascalon." Because the only reasonable response besides "What Ascalon??" would be: "Ascalon? Uh, I pity you..." Honestly, who cares about Ascalon still? It was nice, 3 years ago in the beta, but it got tiring before the beta ever was over! --Ineluki 08:35, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Heroes in other campaigns
Are you sure about being able to take heroes with you to other campaigns, or is this just speculation? I hope this is the case, and getting a pet Phoenix for Elonian characters is going to be a huge pain if it isn't, but I'm not aware of any statements either way. -- Gordon Ecker 18:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, just speculation, but based on my experience during the event weekend. All of my other characters had slots for the heroes (although no actual hero) while they were still in Tyria and Cantha. Plus there is no reason why they shouldn't allow them to be used in Tyria and Cantha. They fill regular party slots, just like hench, and are more like enhanced hench. -- Shadow Lord 20:10, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You'll be able to take heroes to Tyria and Cantha; this was confirmed by Gaile today. People on GWO weren't able to get a log of the chat, but the telling snippet of it was posted on GWGuru. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae  21:57, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4387/herosxb8.gif --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:13, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, here's hoping that ALL our Tyrian/Canthan characters can pick up all the Heroes too, otherwise it's a 7 character Nightfall-reroll-nightmare for me to take advantage of that. hadz 19:40, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
 * From what I saw during the event, any Tyrian/Canthan character you take to Elona can get the same heroes as the Elonian ones. No one character can get ALL the heroes, because ANet has said that there are some quests, where choosing one hero eliminates the ability to choose certain other heroes. -- Shadow Lord 20:32, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, when I said "all" I meant "all the choices". I was just hoping the first few, like Koss and the Healers, would not be left out.  Maybe when you get to Elona the "contact" will just say here's a bunch of heroes who'll help you, and that will cover the "early story" ones. hadz 04:29, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I just thought of something, You have to be able to get the early heroes too. Some of the missions and quests require you to have them. Like you need to have Koss to get Melonni, ect. -- Shadow Lord 23:49, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but it's assumed Tyrian and Canthan chars won't be doing the early Istan storyline anyway. Especially the Primary Quests from it. Hence, maybe Koss, Melhonni, Tahlkora, Dunkoro, and whichever Acolyte was chosen will be unavaliable to Tyrians/Canthans. If so, I hope they get replaced with Heroes for the specific campaign (i.e. Mhenlo, Devona, Aidan, Cynn and Eve for Tyrians, or Argo, Danika, Nika, Panaku, and Talon for Canthans). Personally, I doubt it and there will be some contrived method for the Istani heroes to join foreign characters... but the Tyrian/Canthan only Heroes would be neat. --Valentein 00:00, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Kormir returns at the end of the Trial By Fire quest. The simplest solution would be to have the three War Preparations quests and The Time is Nigh each introduce you to one of the four mandatory Istani heroes, and to have Kormir introduce foreign characters to Field General Hayao during the quests that bring them to Elona. -- Gordon Ecker 19:20, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I just read a Nightfall review that says after you beat the game, you unlock all the heroes for that character, plus there's 1 new hero in Prophecies and Factions each, if you own those games. :D --Shadow Lord 10:45, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * During the GWN launch party, the demo machines had an area unlocked on the mainland. The dervish on the machine I tried had access to a large number of heros, as well as regular henchman (including Eve, Aidan, Mhenlo, Cynn, and at least one other (I forgot which) for Prophecies, plus some other henchman who I didn't write down, so I can't recall if they were Factions henchies or not).  However, the developers were using unlock codes, so there's a chance that the real game may have different availability of henchmen. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:25, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

Ridable Wurms!
I noticed that this topic was not on here so i thought id add it. In the PC gamer article about nightfall they confermed RIDEABLE WURMS! now discuss
 * "Dune" ripoff :P &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   01:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * i wouldnt actually call them rideable... unless you consider dinner to be "riding".--Midnight08 07:07, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I haven't heard anything about this. Is it something like worm riding in the movie Dune, except i'm guessing 'inside' by what Midnight said. - Shadow Lord 07:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * "Walk without rhythme and you won't attract the wurm..." :) Gotta do the dervish dance to get the Wurm to pop up. --Karlos 08:15, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe a Dune rip-off, but you have to admit, its unique and exciting for Guild Wars. I don't know if even paraphrasing PC Gamer is allowed, so I will say if you ever wanted to be a wurm "completely" (not just dinner :P), this is your chance. As a Droks runner, I think its awesome because they are so frustrating, but I think its a different species of wurm other than what we are used to. &mdash; Gares 08:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * --MINOR SPOILERS--its detailed in the PC gamer article where they were shown a--MINOR SPOILERS-- zone where you were swallowed whole by wurms to traverse an area that is toxic. the wurms have their own series of skills that the player then has control of. When the player was free of the toxic area, he then exits (is regurgitated by) the wurms (or they start taking damage).--MINOR SPOILERS-- --Midnight08 16:22, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Sounds very... "weird", but cool. I think I'll like it. -- Shadow Lord 08:16, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm having Final Fantasy minigame flashbacks. I doubt this will be a full game enhancement, maybe just one or two areas. --Tisiphone 23:19, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The latest IGN article says the rideable Wurms are called 'junundu', and that they can dance (although their dance animation is more of a slow swaying). The wurm skills include a healing skill, a projectile attack and 'wurm thump', which sounds like an area melee attack or PBAoE. -- Gordon Ecker 04:26, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * ummmm just wondering multiple party members, multiple wurms? if not who gets to control the wurm. there is also the chance that this could only be used by urself.
 * This video shows multiple party members riding Wurms. -- Gordon Ecker 22:20, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Templates and Easy Second Class Switch - The greatest small upgrades?
For those of you that dont know Nightfall will have a template system where you can save the skills you are useing right then and save them for later. Also you no longer have to go to Senji or any of the people in prophecies to switch you second class, you can do it any time as long as you have unlocked the professon. These seem like really great additions. Situation - a group is looking for 1 more Ele in HA, you get into the group. they tell you to go starburst. you set up for star burst(E/A), but then they tell you to go energy storage heal (E/Mo). Without these new additions you now have to go to senjis corner or the people in the crystal desert and then switch your skills taking around 1-3 mins. with these updates you could do this in about 5-10 seconds. This is my interpretation of what i heard. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.200.105 (contribs).


 * Yup, that's how it works. The changes are great. Actually, they are two of the best updates with Nightfall. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:42, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Also the templates are saved to your computer, and if you play on more than 1 computer, you can put them on a disk, and take them with you. --Shadow Lord 06:02, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * How's that better than the templates being saved to your profile so they're there whenever you log in as yourself, no matter where? --NieA7 06:11, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * If the system were robust enough and the information saved were generic then it could be assumed people could actually upload & download builds? that would make build testing on GuildWiki interesting... --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 06:42, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * We're just going to have to wait and see (hate that answer). I would hope that the template includes armour and weapons, in which case it may be that they can't be shared around (assuming that they're not tied to a character in the first place). It'd be cool to be able to download builds ready to test though. --NieA7 07:58, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 'How's that better than the templates being saved to your profile...' Well, for one thing; if it was saved to your profile, there would be a limit as to how many templates you could save. On your computer, there's no limit. Also when the file is in your control, all new options open up. For example, here are some things I think we will see: You will start to see offline template editors. Even if profiles are tied into 1 character and include armor, someone will find a way to insert skills for a build. I think there will also be a way to view profiles offline too, your own and others. The possiblities are just opening up. --Shadow Lord 15:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * which is where robustness and validation come in, if it is a simple text file or even fine which can be viewed as a type of garbage like binary, I hope it is delt with carefully, lets hope this can not be exploited. --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 18:04, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Why should there be a limit if templates were saved to your Guild Wars profile? Technically I can't think of one, the only thing would be if ANet chose to put an artificial limit on it (which they could do with template files as well). Not that it really matters, just curious. --NieA7 04:18, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * All templates would take space on their servers. They can't let people create unlimited amounts of templates. That's why the templates are saved on your computer. This also enables people to use such tools as GWFreaks to create templates for them as soon as the programs are edited to save the builds in a compatible format. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 05:06, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It needn't take up much space at all - it could be as simple as a line of text, compressed (so what, 50 bytes? Less?) And there's still nothing stopping them putting a limit on the number of templates just because they're kept on your computer. I can't think why they should want to, but that doesn't mean they won't/can't. --NieA7 05:39, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 50 bytes, never. You need to reverve 20 bytes just for the character's name. It would be several Kilobytes, at least. Even a few dozen Kilobytes per profile adds up very quickly. Let's assume about 6 templates per character. Now concider how many characters there can be if most people purchase all 3 chapters. That's 4 for the first game + 2 for the other two games = 8 character slots (not counting the extra slot if the POBP is included). Now multiply that times the number of players 'worldwide'. Let's use 1,000,000 players; double the reported users who tried the Nightfall WPE (just to pick a number). Do the math, and that quickly adds up to a whole lot of disk space. Disk space that ANet kindly doesn't charge a monthly fee for. And compression adds its own problems. Compress/decompress requires additional processor usage. As for limits to templates saved on your computer, why would they? They don't care how much space you use up on your own system. Plus there has been no hint from them in that direction. --Shadow Lord 06:09, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Egad, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. I'm not disagreeing with any of this in particular, just trying to point out that we don't know how it will work (we don't know there won't be a limit even though there's no reason I can think of to have one, so saying that storing them locally means you can have as many as you want is only speculation at this stage, rather than a confirmed benefit). As for character names, I would've thought that character slots are numbered per user, thus instead of a name all you'd need is "1", "2" etc... And again, armour, skills, weapons etc could all have simple internal references (as far as we know) rather than have to be explicitly spelled out. But I'm only guessing, of course. My original point was that from the players point of view having the templates stored on your computer isn't necessarily superior to having it stored on your profile (my girlfriend and I regularly swap between the laptop and desktop, for example), rather than the technical merits and problems of such a system. --NieA7 06:23, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Where did it say that templates include equipment? -- Gordon Ecker 06:38, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * LOL, nobody's attacking you. I was just pointing out the downside of server stored templates. Templates will have to have some means of identifying individual characters and their primary/secondary professions for the combo. Truthfully I think they will use the character's ID# (which is currently hidden). There can be no shorthand for skills, there's just too many of them. And if templates include your heroes and their skills too, well... you can see where that leads. I did see something somewhere, that hinted towards no limits on templates stored on your computer. I just didn't want to mention it, because right now I can't remember where I saw it (in case someone asks me). In your case, it will require extra work to store your favorite templates on both computers. --Shadow Lord 07:21, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I didn't feel attacked so much as beleaguered ;) I reckon skills must have some kind of ID, it wouldn't be that hard - a primary for the attribute and a secondary for the skill, something like Y67... As for equipment, all that's been said officially (as far as I know) is that it will allow you to save "builds", so it'll depend what definition of build they use as to whether equipment will be included or not. --NieA7 11:00, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Only 27 bytes are necessary for the professions, attributes and skills, the template names could take up more space than the templates themselves. It'd be nice if they let you store copies of a few of your templates online, but I'd rather have more storage or major and superior runes of holding. -- Gordon Ecker 19:37, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * In a sense you're right, but you are forgeting 3 things. 1) due to processor registers, anything byte sized will still use 32 bits (4 bytes). 2) you have to plan for expansion. 3) things tend to use more space than in the past. So count things as taking more space, not less. --Shadow Lord 02:35, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm just saying that, hypothetically, a minimalistic build file (builds.dat, for example) could have a header, FFFF to indicate a new build, a 8 character, 16 byte hex string covering professions and attributes (with padding), a 16 character, 32 byte hex string to cover skills (I miscalculated), another FFFF to indicate another new build and so on. You could fit 21 builds in a 1k file excluding the header (although I think most modern file allocation systems have a minimum file size of ~4k). The file format wouldn't need to be changed unless they add more features to the templates or some bizarre series of events causes the professon count to climb into the mid 200s or the skill count climbs into the mid 60000s. I'd prefer a more robust sytem with names and commentary, as well as the ability to keep individual builds in separate files so that downloaded builds are modular. -- Gordon Ecker 03:25, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Gordon, if I had been taught hex problems like that in school, I think I would have gotten it about 6 times faster than I did ^^ Thanks for working out the math so we don't have to. --Tisiphone 12:32, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Bits, not Bytes. Asside from that, I'd be willing to bet any build format they will use will only contain Profession/Secondary, Attributes and Skills information (no need for a build name, the OS can take care of that). Anything else would lower the resharability. --Theeth (talk)   17:34, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I do agree with you Gordon, minimally speaking it could take less than 1K. But what I'm saying is that realistically, I expect it to take up more. The trend these days is for bigger files. Forgive me; I'm going to get technical here for a minute. The game programmers are most likely writing the code in C++, and they are going to use variables, not bytes. The compiler will pad extra bytes, according to the variable's definition. It would require extra work on the programmers to bypass this. Also, they DO have to plan for future expansions. There are 2 development teams working separately at ANet. Each one is trying to add something new, in new chapters. So flexibility is more important than size. Besides what's a few 10K templates compared to a few meg mp3 files ;) --Shadow Lord 09:44, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Back to the original topic. I just read the GW insider, and it seems that templates will save skills, secondary professions and attributes for you and your heroes, and which heroes you have selected. --Shadow Lord 18:12, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * And it also says, you can save them and email them to a friend! Woo, no more alt+tab to try a new build. Just download the template and off you go ^^ &mdash; Stylva  18:17, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Source for online store info?
A while ago, an anonymous user added that the standard version of Nightfall will be in the online store immediatelu upon release. I can't find a reference for this on GW.com anywhere. Anyone know anything? --Fyren 04:07, 17 October 2006 (CDT)


 * http://www.guildwars.com/support/faq/nightfall-faq.php#support, first question:
 * Q: Can I buy Nightfall from the in-game NCSoft store?
 * A: Yes, Nightfall will be available via the Official (online) Store on October 27, 2006.
 * --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 05:36, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's what I get for looking through useless press releases and news items, I suppose. --Fyren 05:46, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

A sign of big changes
I just learned that the Official game guide for Nightfall by Prima is going to be delayed until December. That means that they cancelled the current version they were planning to release. Now the only reason I can see for this at this late stage, is that there are going to be so many changes, that it would invalidate the current version. Thoughts anyone? --Shadow Lord 02:50, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't know why they bothered; whether released now or December, any guide by Prima will be equally useless. :| Arshay Duskbrow 03:50, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * with the way skills change right around release and just after and the minor changes they make just after a release of any mmo, i'm glad. this will allow them the chance to get it mostly right... which is better than the current pattern of mostly wrong. I still use the guides when im not at home to referance skills and such, but the innacuracies make it less than perfect. and its difficult and sloppy to write in 10 changes in the 1st month... hopefully by december the skills arre mostly stable and the guide can be semi accurate.--Midnight08 09:31, 18 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Nothing will ever justify why the guide simply has wrong information as to how things actually take place in the game. Not just skill descriptionsn and so forth. I honestly believe that it is written by technical writiers who never actually saw the game. The guide will always be overshadowed by something like this wiki in terms of a reference. What the guide CAN (and should) do is give players a CLEAR edge, for example, a list of all bosses with elites and locations. This would make it lucrative to a player to go capping right away and not wait for the wiki and guru to find them. A list of all greens and who drops what. Something to make anyone want to own the stupid thing. Of course coming out 2 months after the game ensures that even these ideas will not save the guide. --Karlos 09:52, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * the guides are usually written by the companies when they get beta slots. They alpha/beta test and release based on that information (because they want the guide out for release). So they given access to the alpha/beta and work from there... this often leads to really innacurate information based on things that have changed between writing (usually 1-2 months before publish/print) and release. Online guides will always end up more accurate in the end, the only reason i get the guide if for access to the information when i am away from a computer. --Midnight08 10:02, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree that there are always inaccuracies and errors in the game guide. But it's not just the guide people putting in the information. They get information from, and talk to the game designers. ANet has at least 45% input into these guides. I also think that their deal with ANet is what keeps the most useful information out of the guide. I mostly just use the fold-out map, and skill list away from the computer. --Shadow Lord 10:53, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Having grossly inacurate information in the game guide never stopped them from going to print before, why start now? I would suspect other reasons for the delay, although this may give them a chance to at least get a handful of pages accurate at the same time. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:58, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's my whole point! They feel that there are enough changes to cancel, and redo the whole thing. Other errors and stuff never bothered them before, why now? --Shadow Lord 11:13, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

The Prima Guide isn't delayed. Actually, according to Gaile Gray (source) there seem to be no plans for a Nightfall official guide at all, neither by Prima nor anyone else. Probably Prima accepted orders assuming that ANet would award them as the makers of the official guide, like they did for the previous ones, but ANet never did. -- 12:50, 18 October 2006 (CDT)


 * the fact that they had a release date that is still visible at multple sources and you can still find cached sections of prima's page giving alot of information on it makes me believe otherwise. I am expecting that they are trying to outdo themselves (anet). They heard alot of negative feedback about the 1st 2 guides all over the forums and i expect that they want to release a more accurate guide. Dates, and ISBN's are not just made up(usually)(like the whole "Gamestop situation" where GS posted a bunch of NF specs before Anet announced. Then pulled it a week later after it hit the forums and Gaile Said not to believe anything that has not been announced. After the announcement Gamestop posted the same page and the information hadnt changed. I'd guess that for the prima guide they were probably in talks and decided on the oct 3rd release date, then changed their minds and prima couldnt pull the info fast enough. So now Gaile is doing her best to clean up the mess.--Midnight08 14:07, 18 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I have looked around, and I would say that Prima was going to release a guide, but ANet pulled their support from it. There's no telling what's going on now, as nobody's talking. Prima could still release a Nightfall guide (without the 'official' part). ANet could release the guide themselves, or have someone else do the 'official' version. If ANet pulled their support because of the lousy job Prima did on the Factions guide, this is a very late time to do it. Obviously they did have ANet's support until recently. If ANet pulled out because Prima was doing another 'wonderful job', like they did with the Faction's guide; then I would have to applaud them. --Shadow Lord 10:07, 19 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, anet did the factions guide for teh most part... Prima just published it... And it sounded like the torch was passed back to Prima for this 1... --Midnight08 19:49, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * If they did, then they did a lousy job, and Prima is getting all the blame for it. :P --Shadow Lord 20:08, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

From Prima:

Guild Wars Factions Prima Official Game Guide

Written by Arenanet ISBN: 978-0-7615-5383-0 (0-7615-5383-5) Retail Price(s): $19.99 U.S. / $26.95 Can.

From GuildWars Guru

Note, she says there will bea guild wars guide but misses the word factions, but the post was in Feburary of this year and she says this time A-Net will be writing it...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119780&page=2&highlight=Prima

Gaile Gray ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

"There will be a strategy guide for Guild Wars, and this time, we're writing it ourselves. We'll have a company publish the book, of course, but the authors will be on the Guild Wars team this time, rather than external writers. There are more than 20 people involved in the production of the guide, those most on a part-time basis, of course.

We'll be sure to provide a publication or shelf date when one is available. "

So thats the proof on the factions 1, yes A-New screwed up that 1... Tho i still use it for ideas --Midnight08 19:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Time to archive?
It's getting time to archive again, the page is getting very long and hard to handle, plus it's big. Maybe archive everything from top to the heading "Inscriptions"? &mdash; Stylva  12:43, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's amazing, I was thinking exactly the same thing when I loaded this page to read your post about loading this page... --Tisiphone 12:48, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Bah, its only 80kb and like 25-30 pages long or so... thats not too bad... lol too bad i dont know how to archive or i would...--Midnight08 14:14, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Probably you just make a subpage with the name Guild Wars Nightfall/Archive 4 and then move the text over there.. But I'm not sure, maybe the wiki has some cool function to move history also? &mdash; Stylva  14:41, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Looked at the other archives, and decided I could do as it looked like they had done ;) This page is now archived, but still bigger than the recommended 32 kb. Though I think inscriptions is still a important issue, so I kept it, and all below. &mdash; Stylva  14:59, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It's still pretty big, I think we should archive again on release day. -- Gordon Ecker 22:59, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Gamespot and IGN articles
According to IGN there are also recruitable NPCs, with a weaponsmith given as an example. One of the missions is called Gates of Desolation, it has monsters called 'lumbering mesas' and at least part of the mission takes place while 'riding' a Wurm. The Gamespot article's description of the 'first mission' sounds like NZGaming's description of Cemetary of Dunahm, however if it is the first mission then Nightfall's really changed since the preview. -- Gordon Ecker 04:26, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Don't want to sound like too much of a fanboi here but...Nightfall is going to ROCK!!! hadz 06:32, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * /Clings to Hadz and dances happily in aggreement! --Tisiphone 15:02, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe it's the first mission after bringing over Tyrian characters, or the first one on the mainland? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:12, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That makes a lot of sense. Remember the difference between Shing Jea Island and the mainland. Nightfall's worldmap looks very similar... except - didn't someone say that Tyrian characters ended up in Kamadan? Well, who knows, the beta map could have as little to do with the real one as the Factions equivalent. Either way, we find out in a week ^^ --Tisiphone 15:15, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Nightfall Starting Year
Please defend your Nightfall Starting Year. Where was it taken? Provide citations. Thank you --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 02:01, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It's from the manual of the Taiwanese edition that is already on the shelves. My recent edit of History of Tyria was based on that also.  How do I go about citing something?  I'm such a noob o_O" - 11:05, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * i wouldnt call u a noob... ive never seen a citation on GW wiki... ive seen em on wikipedi, but ive never seen anyone bother with them here... its more of a "if its wrong fix it" rule here from what ive noticed. --Midnight08 11:19, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's okay. I trust your word.  I'm doing it for the sake of the other GW players citing the info in other forums.  The info you added is being questioned in other forums.  Anyway, I trust the date was literally written right?  vs translated from Chinese to English?  I'll put the citation then.  --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 11:55, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The list of dates were literally written in the equivalent of "History of Tyria" section, though there were some obvious date conversion errors the year before Exodus in the original source (the year the Gods handed out magic, 1 BE became 1 AE, 199 DR became 201 DR, althgouth the Canthan calendar date was correct), so that was manually "fixed". Only the events were translated, the years and the calentar code (AE, CC etc) were numeric & English letters. - 12:32, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Any idea what this means in terms of travelling back and forth? Everything we've seen says/implies that you can take characters back and forth between any of the 3 continents, but how does this work with the events of Nightfall taking place after the events of Prophecies and Factions? - Lord Ehzed 16:30, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * As far as online gaming is concern, nothing. It will just be the same as you would with C1 and C2.  The "time" aspect of most online games when it comes to expansions or stand-alone continuation are just trivial or SL aspect of the game.  A good example also is WoW: Burning Crusade, which is 3 years after WoW original (if I recall it correctly), but all the quests already in the game won't be changed at all, and majority of these quests have a "time" aspect too (especially WoW because it is quest-based - thus you'll feel the time period of the game).  Same with GW and any other online game.  Although this is the first if I recall, since in the past, when they move the time forward, it is totally a new game.  --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 17:47, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The Elona &rarr; Tyria and Elona &rarr; Cantha quests are still going to be a bit odd. -- Gordon Ecker 18:14, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Time is an illusion. lol :D --Shadow Lord 22:58, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I bet they'll just do the "You are viewing events that have already passed" thing (can't remember the exact quote) that they did when jumping between the continents in Factions/Prophecies. And I'd just like to confirm this info - I've got an English version of the manual right here :D Planeforger
 * As far as I know they didn't do that with Factions and Prophecies. The quest dialogue makes it pretty clear that the events in both of the first two campaigns are occurring at roughly the same time, with enough vagueness to allow either campaign to follow the other. -- Gordon Ecker 22:20, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
 * No, they definately did it. Try playing Minister Cho's Estate with your Tyrian character, although it may only happen the first time you do it. Planeforger 05:05, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Scans
-- Gordon Ecker 03:36, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Manual
Does anyone know if the manual has a listing of heroes or more information on how inscriptions and insignia work? -- Gordon Ecker 03:36, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

It has the info on all the hero's which was presented on website and other sources. no additional info on Insignia, Inscriptions or templates as far as i noticed--Ofer1992 12:18, 25 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Does that include Razah? Also, what's the hero count and is there a ritualist hero? -- Gordon Ecker 16:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, Razah is in the manual. The hero count, in the manual, is 14. There is no mention of a ritualist hero - but since there's only supposed to be one hero from each other campaign, I guess we're stuck with an assassin. Planeforger 05:08, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Fourteen? That's interesting. There's currently 13 known Nightfall heroes and 2 known crossover heroes. This would mean that the manual either has both crossover heroes and is missing one of the Nightfall heroes, is missing the crossover heroes and has one Nightfall hero we don't know about yet or has one crossover hero but is missing the other. -- Gordon Ecker 06:45, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Or is just plain wrong? --NieA7 06:57, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * The manual has both the crossover heroes and 12 of the Elonan ones. The 15th hero is also in the manual...just not in the heroes section. hadz 07:38, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * If it's who I think it is, I guess they're not listing him as a hero because it's a spoiler. -- Gordon Ecker 14:57, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * If he's a spoiler, then they blew it a long time ago. He's still listed as a hero on GW's own website. At the Nightfall game contents list page. --Shadow Lord 15:41, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

1 DAY
Can't wait :-P Lancek  13:51, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
 * quit reminding me, i'm trying to ignore it til i pick up my CE tomorro.... then i'll go home, go to sleep, and wake up at 3am (Midnight PST)...=P --Midnight08 22:11, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

I'll be on the watch for the UPS truck all day. <_< >_> <_< >_> Arshay Duskbrow 05:11, 26 October 2006 (CDT)