GuildWiki talk:Community portal/Archive 17

BeastInfobox system revamp
Proposal: turn it semi-similar to how the skill system works, so that non-creature articles that talk about creatures can easily provide more information (that don't need to be synced).


 * Stuff we'll want to keep track about all Creatures
 * Everything currently in Beastinfobox
 * If it's Ally, Enemy, or Other (there are some you cannot attack and cannot heal)
 * If it's boss or not
 * A list of locations appears in
 * Skill Bar (separate entries for Normal mode vs Hard mode)

Articles about locations can then pull the monster's data (in either a table-row format or a bullet-list format, or something else) easily. And other types of articles may create custom formatting templates for their usage too.

-User:PanSola (talk to the ) 22:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Good idea - potentially a whole lot of work, but potentially extremely useful. Some of the work could be handled by a bot - taking any existing categories/skillbars and turning them into parameters in the existing BeastInfobox, then taking the box and moving it to a subpage.  This is obviously one of your "troublemaker" ideas that will require 7-14 days of discussion first. ^_~ &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was thinking along the same sorts of lines. Its been a while now, so mind if I start? &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 06:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Third warning, it has been over a week. I will start in Two Hours unless there are any objections raised. :) &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 14:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been a week since Pan proposed it, you just saw it today. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I said it about a week ago I think. Though what I said was moved to the archive. I saw this when Pan proposed it. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 14:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That doesn't appear to be the case. It's Pan's proposal, get the go-ahead from him (or possibly her, still not sure) before you start anything. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I said it before noticing pan's statement, but I've known this was here for a while. And pan is a guy. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 14:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that so? Fascinating. Well, I'm going to bed. Good luck with the creature skill template thing. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The proposal is to design the box first. ONCE the box is designed, we should go through a separate process to make sure the community likes the box designed.  As for the statement that I'm a guy, you might want to refer to double check against my user page on GWW. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 15:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You know how there's an auto-category for the skill box? Like if you put "skill type = enchantment" then it will automatically go into the enchantment category. We should do this for the monsters, for things like species, profession, location, etc. --Macros 16:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

New Effect box template
Somewhat related to the BeastInfobox revamp, I would like to propose adding an "Effect box" template to all Effects. This will be similar to the Skill box template, except it would, obviously, provide different info other than full/concise descriptions.


 * Info we'll want to keep track of on all Effects:
 * Type (see subcats of Category:Effects)
 * Campaign
 * Location, for localized effects (e.g. Realm of Torment explorable effects)
 * Consumable or Bundle item, for effects granted by items
 * Faction or god that grants it, for Blessings/Bounties

Unless anyone wants to make QRs for effects, I don't see any need to export this to subpages, like we have for skills. Also, for Consumables effects, one idea I had is to include the effect on the item's page, like I've done for Drake Kabob. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 04:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Category:Effects makes sure this page isnt added to the "effects" category. Note the first colon. Changed it for you :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 10:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Bah! :P But do you have any comments about it?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. So long as it wouldn't get in the way of any other page layouts we use on those pages, right? All we have currently is a little image of the effect icon, which isn't much. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  14:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Muahahaha, you're gonna get in some serious trouble with this...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 15:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Welp, tomorrow will be seven days since I posted this, so I'll assume no one has any strong objections to it. I'm going to go ahead and start adding it where needed. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 19:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Learn from that first.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 20:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * * grumble, grumble* Why didn't you just link that in the first place, instead of making that inane "getting in trouble" comment?  /troutslap  >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:20, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So you could realize it yourself.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 01:12, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Without ever looking at that, I actually had already included ~95% of what's in GWW's Effect infobox. They have a more effecient way of assigning categories, though, and a couple other things I hadn't thought of, so it was still useful.
 * It seems like the only real contention there was over what to call the Sunspear/Lightbringer/EotN effects you get from people at res shrines that give you points toward a title track for killing things. I believe the consensus here is to call them bounties, cf. Kurzick/Luxon bounty, Sunspear/Lightbringer bounty and Eye of the North reputation bounties.  They are blessings, yes, but they are a special sub-type of blessing because of the points-for-killing-stuff effect.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

A couple quick things related to categories before I go to bed: &mdash;Dr Ishmael 05:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know I made a lot of redlink cats just now, I'll deal with them tomorrow.
 * What is the deal with Category:Environmental Effects? The in-game term is Environment Effect, so why does the cat have two extra letters?
 * GWW mysteries, there are many similar cases. Just do it they way you feel it's best before someone starts arguing against you with non-sense and slows you down.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 06:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Grammatically speaking "Environmental effect" is the right form. That wording is also used internally by ANet, as evidenced in all of the Game link: pages for this kind of skills that Mike O'Brien exported to the wiki, such as this; all of them have the comment "this is an environmental or special skill". So at the very least, using those additional two characters, -al, is not incorrect. --Dirigible


 * But, lower case and singular are preferred --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 08:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Singular? Most categories I've seen are plural.  Category:Bounties, Category:Templates, Category:Skale_Bosses, etc.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Then I suggest to not bother with singular :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In-game terms are also title-cased, Category:Enchantment Spells, Category:Dual Attacks. Since the description for a number of Environment Effects (those that don't call themselves Signets or whatever) do use that exact wording and case, that's why I was using it.  I agree that "environmental effect" is the grammatically correct form, and if we're talking about them generally that's what I'd use, but not for the category.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Still, Environmental is the proper adjective form. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Further discussion
I have finished adding the effect box to pretty much all Environment Effects, Disguises, and Blessings, as well as the EotN bounties and bonuses (which needed major cleanup/fleshing-out anyway). I've got a few questions before I continue:

&mdash;Dr Ishmael 23:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) The SS/LB bounties are each formatted so that part of the page (the gray box with the icon) is an inclusion into the main article. Should I:
 * 2) *wrap that bit with &lt;includeonly>, then add the effect box?
 * 3) *subst: them into the main article so I can replace the individual articles with the effect box?
 * 4) *leave them as is?
 * 5) The Conditions are already formatted nicely, and I think I'd mentioned above that I feel hesitant to change them. The concise descriptions need to be added regardless, as they give the exact numbers of the condition, and the effect box provides an easy way to do this.  It would also add a degree of consistency to the effects in general.
 * 6) There are a number of... "skilfects" which are currently formatted as skills, but are actually effects. Some of the more obvious ones I've gone ahead and reformatted, but others I've left alone for now.  Let me know if you oppose these (and others I may come across) being changed to effects:
 * 7) *Mursaat Tower (Skill)
 * 8) *Lucky Aura
 * 9) *Lunar Blessing
 * 10) *Spiritual Possession
 * 11) *Sugar Rush
 * 12) *Sugar Jolt
 * 13) *Battle Cry
 * 14) *Melee Defense Zone
 * 15) *Elemental Defense Zone
 * 16) Finally, consumable effects. This was brought up below, but there haven't been many comments on it.  I agree with the logic that there really isn't a need for a separate page for the effect, especially when they have the same name (Armor of Salvation, Candy Corn, etc.).  This has also been discussed elsewhere - Birthday Cupcake (effect) has had a merge tag for over a year now, and there were three users supporting the merge, with no one outright opposing it.  Since there has been past discussion on this, I'm only going to wait until Monday for any further comments.  Of course, this then begs the question: do we need a separate category for consumable effects if we're going to keep the consumable and the effect on the same page?

Remember the page "Titans get plus health regen and set enemies on fire each time he is hit"?
I found on the official Wiki. Poke found it in the gw.dat file, and modded it into a skill bar. Respective [http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Titans_get_plus_Health_regen_and_set_enemies_on_fire_each_time_he_is_hit. pages]. This is also linked from the Titans blahblah page. Found it rather interesting, perhaps have some mention of it? --- -- (s)talkpage 05:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I found those (and about a hundred more like them) when I parsed out the unicode files in gw.dat to get the concise descriptions for monster skills and effects. BAMPH!! is in there (desc: BAMPH!!), along with:
 * "Fake Spell": Fake spell just to show casting animation and maybe effects.
 * "Rurik Must Live": Buff placed on Rurik that prevents him from dying for 5 minutes. (I don't think this one ever worked as intended >.>)
 * "Summoning of the Scepter": The Margonite utters words in an ancient tongue, and the ground beneath him begins to shiver and crack. (probably used for The Cold Touch of the Past)
 * "Exposed Underbelly": While on your side, you take +X damage when you take damage, where X is twice your level. (Siege Turtle)
 * Those are a few of the highlights. If anyone wants, I can post the complete list.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is one of the reasons that monsters don't have a full skill bar. Some slots are occupied by these buffs. We could make pages for these skills, but... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 11:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The Margonite Paragons (stupid names they have>.> ) in the DoA have 9 skills, so I think they buffed Nightfall-and-further monsters with a greater skillbar :) But I oculd see this as being the reason Proph/Factions monsters have so little (and mediocre) skills. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 12:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Margonite Anur Runds have 7 skills, including Enraged :o And I heard Gaile or some other developer say a long time ago, that some special monster buffs have to occupy a skill slot. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 16:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Proffesions
(I'm also going to mention this on GuildWars Wiki.) What if for all of the proffesions pages we also name all of the heroes that have those proffesions, like for Necromancer it would be Olias, Master of Whispers, and Livia.--‎ Fire  Tock  14:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Should we also list every NPC and monster that holds that profession? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 17:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's kinda useless to list heroes there, cuz, like Felix said, you could list all NPCs and monsters from the game there as well.... Why not even add all the player names from all of GW too? &mdash; eX tinctioN 18:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The profession article should probably link to the corresponding category, which should then subcategorize. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 03:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Non-orphaned articles
I wasn't sure if I should put this directly into the GuildWiki: namespace, but I've created a page to list all the "modular" articles, those that are only linked to as transclusions, in order to clear out Special:Lonelypages. If no one minds, I'll move this out to in a couple days. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 23:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of the armor pages are in fact junk pages. They are remnants from some long forgotten armor gallery set up. I'd have to go through them to figure out which are which but usually anything with /ascended or similar is old. The setup to a mainspace page is a semi-useful idea. Just stuff that shows up in transclusions not actual orphans right? &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 07:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That was my thought: non-orphaned images is primarily for images that are linked to by text links only, so non-orphaned articles would be primarily for articles that are only transcluded. The purpose of both being to "fix" MediaWiki's error in calling them "orphaned" when they're actually being used.
 * I figured there were a few junk pages in there - found a few obvious ones where an NPC's name was misspelled, then corrected, but the misspelled module wasn't deleted. I didn't feel like checking them all at the time, but they definitely should be checked.  I can add that to my to-do box.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Moved. I even went to the trouble of adding navbars to each section so it would be easier to look at.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Effect or effect?
Here is an article with a capitalized E in effect

Here is one with lowercase e.

Urn of Saint Viktor (effect)

Which way is correct?Guild44 14:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Its kind of annoying when you want to find an effect page and you have to type it in twice if you don't get your capitalization right...Guild44 14:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Special:Search/(effect) indicates that (effect) seems to be used more often than (Effect), so it would be more efficient to change them all to lowercase. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This could take forever! We would have to change all the links and stuff too....Guild44 14:30, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This looks like a job for Ishmael. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought I could save the day by going in game and grabbing a hold of both items in Sunjiang District. Well, I was mistaken there, as the game does not use the term effect at all.  So would we go by GW:ULC? -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  14:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that seems to be the proper thing to do. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think all the effect pages should be merged with the main page. Theres nothing thats said on the effect pages that cant be easily said on the main page. Like the items effects, http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Birthday_Cupcake_%28effect%29
 * I think the only effect pages that should stay are the Environmental Effect Pages.(are the even called that in the game?) Guild44 14:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are a number of effects with the type "Environment Effect" in the game - two examples off the top of my head are Approaching the Vortex and Thirst of the Drought. Regarding capitalization of (effect) for article names, it should be lower-case, as there is no simple "Effect" type in-game.  There's a similar bot task already proposed for ULC-ing categories, it wouldn't be hard to write a script to do the same for articles.
 * As for merging effect pages with the item pages, I tested doing that on Drake Kabob. If we can get consensus on it, I'll do the same for all consumable effects.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:27, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I rather like the combined look, and it could help prevent confusion on items, ie: people wouldn't have to go to a 2nd page in order to see what the consumable item does. I vote to go for it. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  02:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to begin renaming pages that use "(Effect)" to use "(effect)" instead, since that isn't exactly a 'disruptive' change. I'll wait a bit longer for any more comments on the doubling up of consumable items with their effect. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 15:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like there were only three, which have been fixed: Spear of Archemorus (effect), Energy Drain (effect), and Depths of Madness (effect). Let me know if there are any others, or if I missed anything when I moved them. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible new categorie in Game play types?
Not sure I this goes here on on the main page disscusion. Anyway I think we should have a categorie in Gmae Play types called User Created Mini-games that could archive mini-games created by users to play in a guild hall. What do you guys think?Mr Prash 22:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean things like Dodgeball? That thing has a category, and is alone in it... I'm unaware of any other minigames besides rock/paper/scissors and dice rolling. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 00:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * They have football to.Mr Prash 19:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Poki's point is that we already have a category for these scrimmage games. If you want to create articles about other games, go ahead - they can all go in that category.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Strategy Guide
Check this out... Amazing, i didn't think it was possible. But, remember, it was made, and was last edited in 2005. Also, there's two more. Wow, just wow. And, it gave me an idea. If we cut and paste all of the walkthroughs from each primary quest and mission, put 'em in order, we can make a strategy guide for everything.--‎ Fi</tt>re</tt>  To</tt>ck</tt>  01:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * <--2005
 * <--2006
 * <--2006
 * We already have all that information as far as I can tell, and it's up to date with updates, since those are ancient. They're basically the Prima Guide --Gimmethegepgun 02:06, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Was he joking or.....?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 02:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG!! O_O Apathetic Aardvark does a guide for like every stinkin' game ever made! (The FFVII one is pretty good, though :P)  I wonder if this guy ever meets real people... O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What Gep said - we've got all of that content already, and we keep it up-to-date. Also, we have it broken up into individual articles, which IMO is much easier to navigate.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That guy is a pretty good and thorough guide writer, as I can attest from his work on many many other games. :) Still, I seriously doubt there is anything worth salvaging from those rather old guides, that we don't already have here somewhere. By the way, GameFAQS > CheatCC. Plagiarism is always ftl. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You miss understood, i was trying to say two different things, 1. Look, a guy ACTUALLY WROTE a strategy guide for Guildwars, i thought it was impossible. 2. I have an idea, what if we took all of the information from the walkthroughs from the primary quests and missions, from gwiki (not those strategy guides above) and made a strategy guide from copy and paste.--[[image:"Burn Baby Burn!".jpg|19px]]‎ Fi</tt>re</tt>  To</tt>ck</tt>  15:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Because its copyrighted to him.. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 15:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Still, the question is why? What good does that have above the mission and primary quest articles that each contain walkthroughs.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 15:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * uh. FORGET THE LINKS I PUT ABOVE!!! FORGET THEM! THEY DONT EXIST!!! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I"M SAYING!!! Just ciopy and paste all of the walktrhoughs from the primary quests and missions from here. Gwiki. RIGHT HERE ON THIS WEBSITE and put them into a strategy guide.--[[image:"Burn Baby Burn!".jpg|19px]]‎ Fi</tt>re</tt>  To</tt>ck</tt>  04:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot licensing
I've been uploading some armor images today and using the drop-down menu to select "Screenshot" as the licensing option, but when the image is saved, the licensing does not show up. I've been having to put it in manually by using Edit>Screenshot template, which is really really annoying when you do a lot of images in a row... >_< Is it broken? O_o RoseOfKali  16:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I notice this as a bug whenever uploading a new version of an image. The drop down works for new images, but only intermittently works for new versions.  (been helping you with the tagging :P) -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  16:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, I just realized that too, this happens only when uploading a new version. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work intermittently when updating an image, it's rather logical. If the image had licensing before, it will keep it, if it did not, it will not get it, even if you selected it in the dropdown.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)