Talk:Shutdown Mesmer

On Finesse
I've heard it said around the web (and I agree) that Backfire is a pretty ineffective tool for actual shutdown. It's trying to use a canon when what you want is a sniper rifle. In the article's Backfire + Wastrel's Worry situation, for example, the only thing you're getting is damage: the target's still casting spell after spell. If I'm playing my N/Me and can use Feast of Corruption to heal for 120 while doing the same amount of damage to three other people, I won't think twice about casting it right through Backfire. Similarly, a monk won't think twice about just stripping the hexes right off and then healing himself back for the damage he lost.

So, while it definitely has a place, self-damage really should live at the very bottom of the list of shutdown tools. Basically, the thing is that self-damage, particularly the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing espoused in the article, is really bad for actually accomplishing the primary goal of the shutdown mesmer: knocking other people off their game. Frustrating the other player into making bad decisions is just as important, if not more so, than interrupting or killing his character. This guy is the king of psychological pressure, not just an opportunistic damage-dealer. See the usage notes for Diversion for a good example of how this works. --130.58 20:23, 2 March 2006 (CST)


 * I don't like the Backfire Wastrel's Worry example nor the Bakcfire the Mesmer example. Mesmer's tend to be opporunistic in their casting, not spell-spamming. The only mesmer you could kill with backfire is probably the Bakcfire Wastrel's Worry mesmer. :)
 * Still, Backfire is a powerful spell in the hands of a good mesmer. It's prohibitive cast time means you gotta have fast casting to be able to enact it when it will be most useful (same thing with Diversion). Also, do not ommit active (not reactive) usage of Backfire. For example, backfiring a monk and then spiking him (either he removes the hex and not self heal, or self heals and kills himself). A deadly combination, almost as deadly as Fire Storm and Hamstring. :) --Karlos 20:33, 2 March 2006 (CST)

I think that Backfire could work well. I understand what you're saying, but there are other skills you can use to "shut them down". Backfire however would provide added damage to an elementalist, monk, whoever. Some wouldn't even think to bring a hex or condition stripping spell. A monk may, but most likely not mesmer or elementalist. -Demented Paradox


 * Basically, the deal is this: Backfire's a potentially useful part of many a mesmer build, because it is good at applying a certain kind of pressure. Compared to interrupting five consecutive spells or blanking out an enemy's entire skill bar - or, heck, just permanently blocking their elite, - this isn't real "shutdown" however. As it's written, you might as well call the article "Backfire Mesmer" and leave it at that. I've been working to fix it, but, a the moment, it seems like it'll require a total rewrite, and it's slow going because I'm trying to get it up to the level of clarity that you find in the Diversion skill description. All kinds of psych-out factors and whatnot to consider. So let's hope I finish the text file on my desktop in the next few days, and that the results are worth the time... --130.58 17:13, 21 March 2006 (CST)


 * I'm PvE, and the only time I find Backfire useful is against other Mesmers or Monks(although a monk will self-heal through it sometimes and negating some of the damage). Casting Backfire first on a Mesmer before engaging his group, usually means taking 2/3s or more of his health away with a high Domination Magic attribute.
 * I find Diversion to be a more effective tool as a PvE Shutdown Mesmer. With 16 Domination and some timing, you can make a spammable spell into a 1 minute recharge spell.
 * Arcane Thievery, I have never tried, but it looks like a good shutdown tool, since most mobs usually have up to 3 spells.
 * Guilt and Shame have some long recharge times making them less effective and the Mesmer would have to know who to cast which on.
 * Arcane Echoed Power Block with a high Domination Attribute can work greatly against a sigle attribute foe, as with most foes they are usually one attribute, i.e. Healing Prayers, Fire Magic, etc. In theory and with some luck, you could keep up Power Block indefinitely. Example: At 16 Domination, Power Block lasts for 16 secs, Arcane Echo will hold a spell for 20 secs, so you have a 4 second window to interrupt the next spell cast by a foe to use your Arcane Echo version of Power Block to keep it up.
 * Cry of Frustration is effective with groups of foes bunched together, and with a long recharge, very scarcely used unless Echoed.
 * The main Spell Interrupts, Power Spike, Power Drain, Leech Signet, and Power Leak work well to stop a caster. Power Leak more useful for the definition of Shutdown Mesmer as it interrupts and takes away a fair amount of the caster's energy(at 16 Dom, it takes away 26 energy. This energy loss comes after the caster loses the energy they just used to try and cast the spell that was interrupted).
 * Chaos Storm, with the updated AoE, has become a very uneffective spell as mobs will not stay in the Chaos Storm to make it useful.
 * Energy Burn, Energy Surge, Energy Drain, Energy Tap, Signet of Weariness. Spells such as these are a good way to deny mana, e.g. energy denial, but are decent ways to Shutdown casters as they relieve the caster of mid-low amounts of energy.
 * A possible overlooked Shutdown skill, Signet of Humility, can help to shutdown a opponent's elite skill. When combined with Spells such as Arcane Thievery or Diversion can completely shutdown a PvE foe.


 * Can you tell what I love to play? :D I think terms used for a Mesmer, i.e. Shutdown, Energy-Denial, Interrupt, actually coincide with each other as spells/skills overlap into each of these areas. Interrupting is a form of energy-denial as the opponent caster loses energy trying to cast the spell and loses more if it was Power Leak. Interrupting is also a form of Shutdown as it does not allow the caster to, well, cast. The 3 terms are kind of like a circle: Shutdown <-> Interrupt <-> Energy-Denial <-> Shutdown.
 * This is how I have always seen things. When people ask what kind of Mesmer I am, I cannot think of what to tell them. A Mesmer, at least mine, are jacks of all trades. My Mesmer motto: "If you do something right, people won't know you did anything at all". --Gares Redstorm 00:56, 22 March 2006 (CST)

Does anyone know a good Shutdown Mesmer build?

Rewrite
Well, i think it looks...er... decent. I think it still needs cleanup, typo fix, example build fix etc etc. I think it should look like that. Needs alot of polishing -.- --Rotfl Mao 14:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)