User talk:PanSola

 Welcome to the talk page of a devout follower of Lyssa!

= This user is an Admin = If you require the attention of an administrator, you can leave a message on the Admin noticeboard, which I watch. If you want to definitely make sure I be involved in the issue, leave a note here pointing to the discussion on the Admin Noticeboard.

= Archives =
 * Past mistakes are moved into the /MistakeArchive
 * Other closed issues are moved to /Archive/, /Archive2/, /Archive3/, /Archive4/, /Archive5/, /Archive6/, /Archive7/, /Archive8/

= Messages =

Sortable QR
that is by far the coolest thing i have seen all week. --Honorable Sarah 00:54, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * And I'm surprised nobody has done it on GuildWiki yet, considering we got the Javascript to do it ages ago (before I came back). There's a minor issue with the current version of the script though, making the spacing around the sort button ugly )-:  -PanSola 00:56, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The whole thing also looks better in Chinese, because characters naturally go in the vertical direction. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/MesmerSkillDescriptionChart  Sadly, most of the data is out of date there, as I don't have the energy to keep it updated. -PanSola 00:58, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Is there anyway we could get a stable sorting algorithm? With such an algo, it would be possible to do multiple level sorts by just doing them one after the other (for example: sorting by attribute and name -> sort by name, then attribute). From the tests I did, this seems to not work right now, which would mean that it is using an unstable sorting algorithm. I couldn't find the piece of javascript implementation we use, but if you can point me to it, I could modify it into a stable sort. --Theeth (talk)   12:55, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes it's possible, it's on my to-do list, but it's much slower so I'm thinking of making it an "advanced" option that is not enabled by default. The javascript I am using right now (which isn't the one you guys see) is User:PanSola/sortable_mod.js.  -PanSola 16:06, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Try this instead of shaker sort. It's a swapless stable quicksort with non-random pivot. That should fix the speed issue of the sorting. (no guaranty on the errorlessness of the code, it's adapted from some C code I have lying around, my JS skills might be a bit rusty). --Theeth (talk)   16:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

static void qsort_data(list, comp_func, head, tail) { pivot = list[head]; ihead = head; itail = tail;

while (head < tail) {		while (comp_func(list[tail], pivot) >= 0 && head < tail) tail--;

if (head != tail) {			list[head] = list[tail] head++; }

while (comp_func(list[head], pivot) <= 0 && head < tail) head++;

if (head != tail) {			list[tail] = list[head] tail--; }	}

list[head] = pivot; if (ihead < head) { qsort_data(t, ihead, head-1); }	if (itail > head) { qsort_data(t, head+1, itail); } }

function qsort(list, comp_func) { qsort_data(list, comp_func, 0, list.length - 1); }


 * I thought quicksort with non-random pivot, by definition, has terrible worse-case performances. O(n^2). -PanSola 17:48, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * With presorted list, yes, it's O(n^2) operations and O(n) storage (recursion) whereas shaker sort's worst case is O(n^2) operations and O(1) storage, but average cases are much better with quicksort than shaker. Moreover, the non-random pivot is rather easy to fix, I just didn't want to hunt around for JS randomize functions. --Theeth (talk)   18:33, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

I've been working with some sortable tables in my User space when I came across the work you've been doing. One thing I have been trying unsuccessfully to implement is marking specific columns as non-sortable. I saw that you have a template/function call { {weapon qr top}} that implements this but I can not for the life of me find the article to look at the implementation. All attempts to find weapon qr top return no results. Where can I find this article? I also read in one of the posts that you have a work-around for the current javascript stripping out template/function calls from header rows (my second problem). Would you also let me know where to find information on that fix as well? Thanks! --  Glamtre  (Talk) 13:55, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Template:weapon qr top sets certain header cells to be class="unsortable", which then gets processed by the javascript MediaWiki:sortable_mod.js. It's not exactly documented, but hopefully the code isn't too hard to understand.  Let me know if you have specific questions.  As for the tag-stripping, it's a very tiny modification used in sortable_mod.js also.  The original behavior is in, but my sortable_mod.js completely overrides it. -PanSola 02:07, 17 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the info. I totally forgot about the Template namespace and I REALLY hate wiki search!  Are there any plans for your updated code to replace the installed class="sortable" code?  I am happy to implement your code in my namespace for testing, but if it works one way for me and other for someone else I consider that a bad situation. --  Glamtre  [[Image:Axe-icon-right.png]] (Talk) 12:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've been working on it. But IE compatibility seems to be a very weird issue. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:45, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Proposal
Well, you told me to propose one, so how about this? Looks decent to me --Gimmethegepgun 02:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Propose it to the general community, not to me o_O""" That looks like a rabbit on a bad-ear day btw (my personal opinion.  I have no problem setting that as the site's favicon if most of the community likes it) d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Made a better one and fixed link accordingly. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:05, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Moar Monaco
Right now, the Swords and Shield emblem that has been in the top left corner since time immemorial is being chopped in half vertically. It doesn't look great. 02:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently with Monaco, you get no indication that you've been redirected if you attempt to go to a redirect. What I mean is, when I click on my signature image, I'm taken to my userpage with absolutely no (redirect from Image:Felix_Signature.png) message. At the present, I can't find any way at all to access a redirect page with Monaco. D: [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

fix please--‎ Fire  Tock  23:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fix it by, umm, ugh... i forgot what you said, but i remember it was the first one, do the first one (the one on the discussion of the mainpage) to fix it.--[[image:"Burn Baby Burn!".jpg|19px]]‎ Fire  Tock</tt>  03:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh, keep your comments in the same place please, it gets harder to follow if one conversation is jumping between pages. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Skill box
Were the changes made to the Common.css involving the skill box the reason why skillbox is so screwed up right now? It seems that the div for the portion is outside of the skill box div now and so it's below it --Gimmethegepgun 00:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Screenshot + browser version after refresh cache? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Browser: Firefox 2.0.0.13 --Gimmethegepgun 01:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, was just about to contact you about how the colors in the numbers on RC disappeared, but I just fixed that problem (and probably others too) :P --Gimmethegepgun 01:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Is the skill box still messed up after that fix? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's still messed up, it looks to me like the 's    is outside of the skillbox's   instead of inside of it, and only putting it inside (using Firebug) fixed it --Gimmethegepgun 01:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It has always been outside though... Can you use firebugs to check the width of the skillbox div, if it is specified? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, check between Monobook, Quartz, and Monaco. See if all 3 skins have the same behavior.  Then try logged out vs logged in.  And if you got different browsers installed, give those a spin too.  I have having trouble reproducing your screenshot directly. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * After cycling through all 3, both logged on and logged off, the results were the same. With Firebug, unless I moved the code to inside the div, the only way to bring it to normal was to reduce the height of the skill box div, increase the height of the  (since otherwise the table gets shoved inside the box on the side) and decrease the   's width to make sure it didn't get stuck inside the box on the side. However, when I moved the code to inside the div, it still got stuck inside the box on the side because the p was still too wide, and the table got crunched together because it was close enough to get wedged between the navbar and the box --Gimmethegepgun 01:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I think I found the problem. The skillbox div is far too wide, if it is the same width as the skillbox table then everything works correctly. Why both of them are the same name is beyond me, and is likely the problem --Gimmethegepgun 01:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They only have the same classname, and that shouldn't affect things. It seems to be an FF2-specific bug, as I cannot reproduce it on FF3 beta, Safari, or Opera; I had to downgrade my browser to find the problem.  The new skill box code should fix it though. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks fixed on the skill box template, but on others such as Shockwave the problem is still there. I WOULD go and test out .css changes, but for some reason I can't make new lines with either of my enter keys in FF, so I'll have to restart FF first --Gimmethegepgun 01:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, there we go, it's fixed. Tell me if any problems arise after I mod the Common --Gimmethegepgun 01:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Um, with the new ksillbox code, there are no more divs usuing the class Skillbox, so your CSS additions would do nothing. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok then, I guess FF was just being dumb before I restarted it, because it wasn't letting me make new lines with Enter either, so it probably wouldn't update after I refreshed my cache. So, we might as well delete those lines in the Common then? --Gimmethegepgun 02:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll clean it up later, so we don't get edit conflicts. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You killed my skills page :( <font color ="skyblue" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue 02:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (RI) Alright then, at least we got that bug worked out :) --Gimmethegepgun 02:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well then.... time to get back to work :P Screen please Blue? --Gimmethegepgun 02:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Err... when you say your skill page, you mean the one you have in your userspace? Looks fine to me, what's wrong with it? --Gimmethegepgun 02:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes and on my monitor everything is all squished and tiny and the description is at the very bottom and the pic is elongated. <font color ="skyblue" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue 02:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What screen resolution and what browser? --Gimmethegepgun 02:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

ZOMG
idk you but you're on so http://www.iamscruelty.com/videos.asp <font color ="skyblue" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue  06:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * PETA phails tbh. --Macros 22:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Template:Clear
You broke it :( &mdash; Poki#3, 20:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Where is it broken? It works fine for me. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  20:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at my userpage. See the show/hide boxes at the top? They where in separate rows, but now are in 1 row, and I have to cut the one short. Also, both overlap my character box. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 21:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The S/H boxes broke when Wikia busted in adopted the Wiki gently. Have you tried to replace every | with | ? That could cause problems. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 21:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not the point... If I replace

with <br style="clear:both;height:0px;"> (the old content of the clear template) the s/h boxes will be placed like they where again. &mdash; Poki#3, 22:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The br one is a less-good clear, because it actualy does take up space despite the height-0 declaration. I'll see if your page can be fixed while using my version of clear. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:13, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If not, then I'll just make a "clear2" template, or just use "the ugly way" (pasting in raw code). &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 23:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

admin board
Pan, could you add a link to the admin noticeboard somewhere under support in the left hand bar? I'd do it myself, but I don't know where the page is and I'd probably mess up :P Thanks,  --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  01:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki:Sidebar. That's what you need. I think you needa add "adminnoticeboard-url|adminnoticeboard", but somehow I also think I'm wrong. Go figure ^^' --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unprotect it and I'll add the coding if you want, or I could just add the coding into the talkpage for you to enter? &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 14:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As I stated before, we'll not unprotect and reprotect everytime someone wants to edit. Just give the code and an admin will snip it in if nessecary >.> --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Dammit, I sooo wanted to get a MediaWiki edit onto my editcount.. =P >_> &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 14:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no unprotect feature for a mediawiki page <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  14:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. Not really surprised about that, though. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Halp lol
I'd like to incorporate Entropy's "master template" into my personal css settings somehow, but since I'm using Monaco I can't just copy+paste code from monobook, and I really have no idea how to go about doing it. I'll probably tinker around on my own, but any assistance you can give me would be amazingly great. 01:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I meant .js, maybe. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you verbally describe to me what the "master template" does? I'm not seeing anything in Entropy's css/js that are of interest to monaco, -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The master template is just a bunch of links to admin-y things. You can find it at the top of User talk:Gimmethegepgun. The js version is at User:Entropy/monobook.js. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * All Entropy got in her js is stuff that modifies her own sidebar. With monaco, just edit Special:Mypage/Monaco-sidebar.  You can check out mine at User:PanSola/Monaco-sidebar.  If you want something to put at the top of your talkpage/userpage, that'd be done via a normal template, not involving js/css. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 05:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That is extraordinarily useful! [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Darn, I only wanted to be ordinarily useful... Well, since I've crossed the line anyways, you can also take a look at MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox vs User:PanSola/Monaco-toolbox.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Only problem with tinkering .js is bit longer page load times. I will freely give credit to Monaco toolbar edits in that they don't seem to cause as much lag for (mostly) same benefits. Btw Pan, if there is an "Admin skin", those are some nice tools to put in it. I know I saw you messing with that sometime. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:15, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki:AdminSkin refers to "the skin set by the admin to be the default skin that all anon users see, as well as any logged-in user who didn't picked something in their preferences". There's currently no skin-related stuff that automatically affects all users with admin status (although that can be done via JS). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you saying I can tinker with the skins that anons see, and they can't do anything about it? That sounds fun. :) In seriousness, though, how would one go about to make an "admin skin" that those with admin/bcrat status see. I have this idea...We have the #IRC channel and private email, but both of those are subject to some degree of clumsiness and unreliability. So, what if there was a way to post a message to all other admins - privately, in something kind of like the Monaco "Shoutbox", which appeared on the sidebar or such. If there was a feature like that, I could see it being much easier to, say, do another April Fool's joke type thing and it would be so much easier for everyone to participate. All they need to do is log on to GuildWiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * After our databases move, the adminskin should become avaliable in your preferances I think. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 12:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Anons can't do much about it, but there's something they can do about it (though most of them won't know they can). As for your admin shoutbox idea, that's a little too advanced for easy implementation.  What I had in mind is just a javascript that detects if you are a sysop (easy to check), then the javascript loads different CSS (easy) and menus (on the complexity of the JS that addes new portlet in monobook). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 12:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Haha-- Oops..
Looks like I got stuck with the wiki =|. A solo wiki? Meh, less vandalism.. &mdash; Warw/Wick 10:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Help
My screen is totally retarded =|. Its facing sideways instead of upwars... (Instead of ^ its >),.. Don'ts uppose you know how I can fix it, do you? &mdash; Warw/Wick 11:14, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * From your description, it sounds like a tablet PC with a misconfigured setting. Unfortunately I have no experience with tablets.  Turn your screen 90 degrees in the mean time until the problem is solved. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 11:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Its not a tablet pc. I just rpessed somthing ingame, and when I minimised Guild Wars it was like that.. its just a normal laptop =| &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 11:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember that, it's something like ctrl alt and either up down left or right, i'll try to find info <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  11:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, thanks RT! &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 11:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * NP, It's good practical joke btw! <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  11:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah so
On Entropys advice, I'm telling all the admins about Request for rollback. Yeah, go check it out like a good :P &mdash; Warw/Wick 14:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Autoblock failz
User:Organism X contacted me by e-mail today, letting me know that the block on Warwick also autoblocked his IP. On Organism X's talk page I noticed that there has been a similiar case earlier with a ban on Jedi, which autoblocked Organism X. I thought you might be interested. -- (gem / talk) 16:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically it failz. )-:  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * These incidents were much rarer before we moved to Wikia tbh. Now I have to remind myself to always uncheck the autoblock box. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

placeholders in deletion/banning candidates
Do you still need these? It has been awhile. (T/C) 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Pan said they were there because if nothing was in either of those categories they'd fuck up, don't know if it's been fixed or not --Gimmethegepgun 05:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, is why I'm asking silly :p Knowing they are empty gives me psychological peace of mind if you want to know. Since after all It is a sysop's sacred duty. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought that "a sysop's sacred duty" was to make you (the Bcrat) look good :P --Gimmethegepgun 06:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I still need them there. Well, I need at least one in each.  Having two helps identifying a problem clearer.  Have you had a chance to try out Monaco with my customization yet? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Pan, as of a few minutes ago the Monaco sidebar started extending into the actual content area like a template would; It's actually covering part of the text I'm typing. It's kind of not good; did you change something just now? 07:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed something a few hours ago. Not a few minutes ago.  Take a screenshot. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:brokenmonaco.jpg|100px]] [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, looks like some stuff in the width-narrowing code didn't update for you. Have you tried cache-clearing? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup. Just did again. No effect. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Browser/OS version? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Windows Vista 32-bit. Microsoft Internet Explorer 7. Firefox 2. Opera something. None of them are working properly. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:52, 16 April 2008
 * Windows XP confirmed, not working. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 07:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok it's something I did, and It's affecting me now too, but I'm not sure why it's broken. Looking into it now. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be fixed (refresh yoru cache), BUT I don't know why it was broken in the first place. I did some hack that just happened to work, but I don't understand why it was broken.   -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I figured out what I did wrong d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I'll grow a beard. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And you think *that* is gonna convince me you are male? Nice try, this is the internet. d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That alone should have convinced you! There be no girls on the internet, arrr. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:49, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And you think you can obfuscate the issue by hiding behind an arbitrary binary division? I *KNOW* there are humans out there who are neither girls or male. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hahaha! don't be ridiculous! Haha! [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi thar, what's up? I've barely understood a single edit in the last hour but from what I can gather this wiki no longer needs the main namespace because it seems to have turned into some kind of beauty pagent that even you're involved in. Still people seem to be having fun so I guess it's all good. I actually saw you the other day too, I didn't realise you're Italian. --Xasxas256 02:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, that's just the community being the community. I blame me.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ  is hosting a beauty pagent! 02:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Xasxas, were your comments directed at me, Felix, or someone else? *confused* -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry I should have started a new section, they were directed at you PanSola and I feel somewhat comforted that I'm not the only confused one! --Xasxas256 02:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Grats
You are fully entered and ready for the contest when it starts.--<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a beauty pagent! 03:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey there Italian Bag of Food
What does MediaWiki:Protect do? --- -- (s)talkpage 17:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It controls what text the link to protect a page shows. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oic. Doesn't really change a lot, so I won't complain --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 17:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for being awesome.
For editing Regina's talk page etc. etc. One of few admins on a wiki that I've liked. 72.192.62.77 01:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Unfortunately, unless you get an account and log in, I won't remember who you are the next time we meet.  I'm really bad with numbers. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What? Come on, there are only four billion, two hundred ninety four million, nine hundred sixty seven thousand, two hundred and ninety six IP's to remember. Shouldn't be that hard :P  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Lyssian Archives
Thank you for your reply :) Sorry if any of my comments seemed stupid; it was late at night and though I (think I) read the entire article, I probably mis-comprehended a lot of it. Again, thanks, and good luck with the project! &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 21:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * your concerns were very valid, not stupid at all. I want to make sure the proposal evolves to address as much of the potential issues as possible, and your perspective has been of much help (-:  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Need A Little Coding Assistance
If you get a spare minute or two, I could use a hand with something. I borrowed a template here and I'm posting it to my user page with the template function, and the and in the template affects the rest of my user page, causing a few issues. Is there a way to use those 2 commands and have them ONLY effect that link I posted above? Thanks for the help. -- User:Isk8  (T / C)  11:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You can use and . Things in noinclude will work on the template page, but not on any page that's using the template. Include only will do the opposite (things inside don't work on the template page, but work on everything that uses it. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 11:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What Poki said, unless you need something even more fancy in terms of transclution behavior User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That isn't working. If I noinclude, it just omits that from my page.  Includeonly works on the template page if I wrap notoc and noeditsection in it, but then it doesn't work on my user page.  I am stumped at this point. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  17:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you describe the desired behavior? From the above description, it sounds like you want NOTOC and NOEDITSECTION to affect the template but not the page. If that is all, then the noincude tag should do the job. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he wants it to still affect the template when it's placed on pages (i.e. - don't add the edit section links or all the entries in the TOC for the headers in the template, but still do it for the rest of the page). Imo, just don't use actual headers. Remove the and, and then change the == Header == to just Header , and the === Header === to ;Header .  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 00:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That turns out like this.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 00:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help on that Wizard. I had thought about using Big command, but I wasn't familiar with the ;Header command.  I will have to keep that in mind.  Just out of curiosity, was what I was trying to accomplish in the first place even possible?  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  13:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. Things like and affect the whole page, and I know of no way to make them only affect part of it.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 21:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of coding assistance...
Do you have any idea why this isn't working? I have basically the exact same code on my monobook.js here and it works fine. Any help would be appreciated :)  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Firebug says "missing } after property list" on line 17. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, visually it looks like all braces are matching. I suggest adding something SIGNIFICANTLY less complex on PvX to start, then slowly build up its complexity. Start by trying stuff without \n at all. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks, I'll try that.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Simple version still doesn't work >.> Might it have something to do with only having MediaWiki 1.9.3?  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you know html coding? <font color ="#73C2FB" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue 02:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I know a good amount of html, yes. And I'd assume PanSola knows more than me ;)  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 02:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I do -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wiz: Possible. I'd advise try something really really really simple, like re-implement the button for italics, and see if you can get that to work. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Yay failing
High five!<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  02:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ROFL, yeah d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And skills do have synergy with themselves. Just not that one. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  02:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Echo doesn't count as a self-synergy skill IMHO. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you can echo... something... to get synergy. Maybe.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  02:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Freezing Gust and Searing Flames have synergy with themselves :P  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 03:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Pagent Update
Please post your reply to the question as soon as possible, contestants will be graded on lolz factor, as well as actual answers that might help the world.--<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a beauty pagent! 03:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

New
Message. --- -- (s)talkpage 12:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Minis
I have double Burning Titans I could trade for something (although I probably can't get on for a few days). I don't have mandragor, kirin, or Shiro minis yet.<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  23:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Deldrimor artisans on Perfect stat QRs
Thanks for catching that. I looked at the rest and noticed that I'd completely forgotten to change the Artisan for the different professions - they were all linked to the Artisan of Steel! XD &mdash;Dr Ishmael  03:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hehe, I suspected as much, and trusted you would catch on (-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Monaco(Gamer)
Not sure if this is a problem for all Monaco, but i've been using the gamer one and a lot of the lighter text is next to invisible. I'm not sure exactly where to go, i went to the page for improving monaco and it said you're part of the project. So if there's a way i can change my settings that'll let me keep the Gamer skin while not having next-to-invisible text, let me know. For an example, go to one of the image pages, all the copyright stuff is impossible to see w/o highlighting.--<font color ="Black">D <font color = "#900000">N <font color ="Black">A 01:54, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

User talk:204.13.236.244
Why did you add the delete template? Why didn't you just delete it straight out? Blue.rellik 10:16, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Because I feel it's semi-debatable. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Feedback and opinions? Also broken "next 75" link for me. Halp? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 10:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well what's to debate? That Entropy is more than capable or using some words that would make some mothers faint? Or maybe to stand as an example of how not to react to a vandal? If it is the latter then do we really need an example of what not to do? Blue.rellik 10:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it *semi-debatable*, I was not in a mood to spend sufficient time reading over everything and analyze them. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Ive read it all, and didnt find it much of significance (sp?)... But, I like the 5 what-links-here-links box thing. Nothing that really needs to be preserved. But then again, we generally dont delete crap, do we? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 10:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Blue, well Marco removed the delete tag. If you support its deletion, go debate it with him. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hah :D This is why I mostly let others deal with vandals now, other than lack of time. I break QDV too much. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is why I hate going out of town, I miss all the fun on the Wiki. :P -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  14:20, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That was back in 2007... You were out of town a LOOOONG time! --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 15:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Doh! -- User:Isk8  (T / C)  15:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Lulz! Threadnecromancery ftw, eh. On Guru a topic roams about the betas, from, liek, 2005. A month ago some guy came along and posted on it... 3 years late >.< tards --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 15:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Description
Is there any pages that lists any creature that is lacking a description? Kinda like that page that lists creature pages that doesn't have a picture and whatnot. Or do I have to go through every single page seperately? Blue.rellik 03:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Gotta do it manually. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * gaybar Blue.rellik 03:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Okay, something is seriously messed up. Several skills (I can only remember Assassin's Promise, but there are others) have no autocategorization for no apparent reason. I've been messing around with the stuff in my Sandbox, the GuildWiki Sandbox, and made a temporary junk mainspace article for it, but NONE of them ever turned up a category for anything involving the Skill box template. I can't find the problem anywhere --Gimmethegepgun 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's for catchign it. Everything with apostrophe in the name is messed up.  Will be fixing. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 21:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting, that seems to be affecting the as well, see Warrior's Might.  Let me know when you figure it out.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Typical, not 10 seconds later I figure it out - it's anything with punctuation in the article name. The template checks , but internally the wiki replaces any punctuation in the page title with the html-escape, i.e.   or  .  I just checked "Charge!", and the only reason it has cats is because they're hard-coded in the article, not auto-generated by the template. So that's what's causing the problem, but how do we fix it?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We fix it by not doing that check. Take a look at .  I'm still testing it for errors. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Aha, coolies. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * While you're at it, check out a suggestion on my talk page that was made last night to add progression tables for the title-track skills. He's even got templates made for the progression bars.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:Skill box base
Do you plan on having users create templates to use on pages with these? If not, the edit link just breaks. Regardless of this fact, though, what your creating already exists.<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  23:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bleh, so much for the work. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess your version probably does help for... whatever its being used for in the skill box draft, but still.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  23:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Image Redirects
Do you have any idea why they don't seem to be working? -- User:Isk8  (T / C)  05:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Might have something to do with upgrading to MW 1.12 stable release. RT already reported the issue to Wikia I believe. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 05:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

D'oh
Sorry, dont bother reverting it. I'll fix it myself. Just looked up and saw you reverting, thought "wtf", checked it out and realised how badly I screwed up :p.. &mdash; Warw/Wick 16:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Running a bot is a great responsibility, due to how much damage it can be done before someone catches on. Please be triply careful from now on.  Doesn't the bot only have permission to tag images anyways? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Tag images and do anything on Bot tasks. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 16:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In any case don't pick a task another bot has claimed, unless it is obvious that other bot is not going to be working on  the task (eg, bot owner explicitly say so or doesn't respond in a week).  Having multiple bots doing the same task can cause conflicts. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know that the bot owner isnt on the task, though, since he's not running the bot at the moment? &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 16:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He's not running it at the very moment you checked, but there's no gaurentee he won't start 30 seconds later. AND he's still around and said his bot will be doing them.  Go tag images. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not exactly what Entropy said:
 * "OK then, definitive yes, if May will keep the bot confined to 1) tagging unused images with the "7 days" tag; 2) removing/deleting redlink categories; and 3) after 7 days, deleting any image with a "7 days" tag. Further projects will need another request, and don't forget to add it to the botting page. (see below) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)"


 * You are allowed to tag images and remove redlink cats, that's it (since you don't have delete permissions). If you want to do anything else, you have to make another request (to Entropy, I'm assuming).  She never said that you could do the tasks already on the project page. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Removing redlink categories, in technicality, is what I'm doing when I'm doing the build links rewrite. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 18:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Build link != Category... It's a whole different subject, tbh. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 18:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Removing redlinks at all, imo, is basically the same from removing cats. And besides, the only one that I did was links to Category:Untested builds. :) &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 18:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, if you're removing the build category links, then go ahead - that's what you have permission to do anyway, and those aren't covered by my bot, it only does links to the build articles. I only took a quick glance at MayBot's edits and saw where you'd tried to remove a build template link.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And succeeded :) &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 18:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * And phailed. http://guildwars.wikia.com/index.php?title=User:Stabbot&curid=18101&diff=1272805&oldid=196936 -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This doesn't look like a successful edit to me. And neither does this: you're leaving the closing }} or ]] after the link.
 * And I don't think removing cats is the same as removing links - with a cat, it can just be removed entirely, but with the links we have to be sure that we change it in a way that doesn't disrupt the text of the page. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You know, Warwick, someone other than you is going to need to check every single edit of Maybots that were made today and fix up all the problems. And if nobody does it in 8 hours, I'm gonna be stuck with that task. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 19:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * and why not me? &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 19:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Because today isn't your good day. nothing personal against you, it's the combination of Today and you. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh? &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 19:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In other words, you are on a phail streak today. Maybe tomorrow Lyssa will smile upon you. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Lyssazardru ftw. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png|Hello]] Warw/Wick 19:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Skill box --> User skill box
The following pages in your userspace are using :

Because they are user-created skills, they should instead be using. Please update them to use the correct template. If they have not been changed in 5 days, they will be changed for you. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 03:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

New Sig
Breaks GW:Sign. No Sup or Sub tags. :). Btw, I are doing good with the relinking? :) -- Warw/Wick 18:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Grr, it's not a new sig, it's my standard Wikia sig overriding my GuildWiki sig. BTW, haven't had time to check the relinking.  Sig test: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

中文
你会说中文吗？ CorrectJeans 18:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 會，不過有些簡體字我看不懂. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 我只懂‘我看不懂’. 你说中文怎么样？(I'm having fun btw) CorrectJeans 18:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "I can't understand some of the Simplified Chinese characters." was what I was saying. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah. I can't understand the Traditional ones ;-) CorrectJeans 18:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

If you have a little spare time
I was wondering if you could look at a couple coding minor issues I am having. I applied a code to my userpage, just for a change of look, and I think it looks pretty cool :D. I am trying to make it compatible with both monobook and monaco skins, as well as different resolution settings. So.

Issue #1) Monobook vs Monaco.  I applied a span color tag to the Quizzes section of my user page to change the color to lightgreen.  It shows up in monaco no problem, but in monobook only half the text changes color.

Issue #2) 1280x1024 vs 1024x768. I recently increased my resolution to the larger of the two, and am trying to still make my page compatible with the latter.  The only issue here, (and it is a rather minor one) is that my Characters section is offset to the right slightly when at the lower resolution.  Is there anyway of adjusting this, because it appears like it should still fit in the table I have setup.

Again, this is purely at your spare time only. This is nothing urgent at all, just a couple quirks I am trying to work out. Thanks. -- User:Isk8  (T / C)  09:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Bleh, it shouldn't display as lightgreen in Monaco... BTW, your page takes way too long to load/process. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know, I've got alot of crap on there. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8 (T / C)  11:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks alot for the help Pan. Everything is as I wanted it :D You Rock!  I wish I had the time/patience to learn HTML.  I just pick up little bits here and there as I can.  Programming is not my strong suit.  (and that crappy coding on those quizzes you can blame on the sites which I got them from :P) -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  11:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Recommended
You have been chosen (or singled out, based on how you view it) by Warwick as a possible candidate for filling a new bureaucrat position, as per this page. See the notice on my userpage or talk for info. This is an informal process so there is no acceptance or rejection at this point in time; nevertheless, should you care to comment, please feel free. I would appreciate your own self-assessment feedback, even if you do not think you would accept the position. (T/C) 07:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Miniature bartering
I have a duplicate of a Burning Titan, if you would be willing to trade for you Duplicate Kirin (not pre searing one). Let me know. -- User:Isk8  (T / C)  19:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Entrea offered me a Burning Titan first, let me check with him out of fairness if he can do the trade anytime soon. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * >_< Damnit... Okies. Makes me wish I had seen it on your userpage sooner. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8 (T / C)  20:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Entrea gave her blessing on the mini, so let me know whenever you would like to do the trade. (I typically can be in game mornings and evenings, my time (-6gmt). -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  15:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll see when I have time to get on (-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:47, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Skill box punctuation issue: solved
I think I just solved the issue of punctuation in the page name when you're using #ifeq to compare it to a string parameter. Use the magic word to encode them both with HTML entities.

The new autocat on Skill box is fine, there's no reason to revert that in order to use this, although I am using it on Effect box now. I just thought I'd mention it for future reference. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 02:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

francais?
But it's not in your Babel boxes! (T/C) 05:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't speak franch, I'm just linking to my userpage over there. Although the "Other languages" setting doesn't seem to be working... -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 05:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Showhide
Is there any way to set a showhide box to default show? I'm trying to get one to work but it just isn't going right, the inherent style  is overriding my , and   is disabled --Gimmethegepgun 23:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I borked that to fix my talkpage, by editing the MediaWiki code itself (MediaWiki:Common.js/NavToggle) - all Showhide boxes across the wiki now default to hide, regardless if there is only one or not. That would in all probability override any of your personal code. Sorry about that...you can switch it back if you want, though most users prefer it to stay hidden, from what I hear. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Can anyone tell me what good a showhide box is that defaults to open? It's not as if anyone would go to the trouble of closing it each time they read the page, so you could just put the info in a "regular" box. The only scenario where I can imagine it to be useful to close an open box is when the box is commonly used when browsing but there needs to be a way to hide the info when the page is to be printed. Expand my mind, please. mendel 06:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That was why I changed it in the first place - I can't think of any reason why a showhide box should default to open. But apparently Gimme is working on something special. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A template for split PvE/PvP skills, where you'd be able to hide descriptions that don't interest you (e.g. - who cares about the PvP version of shadow form now), but you wouldn't want both descriptions hidden when the page opens. I'm not great with javascript, but you could probably tell it to set this to 0 on most pages and set it to 1 if a certain template is on the page, or something like that.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 19:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Ideally, users would be able to set whether they wanted to see the pve or pvp versions of skills initially, with a link on every skill page allowing them to swap the displayed description. However, that would require both a lot of javascript and wikia tech support, and somehow I don't think the latter would be willing/able. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 20:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Dr ishmael and gimmethegepgun both have working solutions with cookies now that require modifying monobook.js for the wiki to make them available to all users (not sure what to do about the other skins). mendel 22:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This stuff could just be put in the Common.js to make them work for everyone, but we have to have them working completely first --Gimmethegepgun 22:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

PvP reward categorisation by the item templates
Since we don't split articles on weapons with two different skins like with GWW, could you edit these templates so you can add multiple PvP reward categories and possibly, notes for one weapon where each skin is in a separate reward category? Say, I want to use pvpreward1 = Basic, pvpreward2 = Fancy for Elonian Blade and have it added to both rather than having the red-link category it just made. Jennalee 03:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do they share the same name in the PvP reward?? o_O""" -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, they don't. However the PvE article lists both skins in the rewards, which have different names for them and no separate article for just the PvP reward. Jennalee 09:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If the skins have different names, then I advocate for splitting the articles. Not because GWW does it, but because we used to do it for armors that look different but had the same name (the ascended armor).  And if there are cases where they share the same name, explore the option of using two infoboxes on the page (what if their salvage ends up different? etc).  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They don't have different names in PvE, only in PvP >.< Jennalee 21:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 2 infoboxes looks wierd, a lot of duplicated info Jennalee 21:08, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Help
My monobook.js doesn't work anymore. Also asking ish, because hes almost as tech savvy as you ;). Could you help please? Its not my coding, because I havn't made any edits to it since before it stopped working.. :| &mdash; Warw/Wick 23:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing in it works, or just some of it? If just some, which ones exactly? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Whole thing :S &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 23:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, your monobook.js isn't completely broken. Here's what I want you to do:  list, item by item, things you expect to work but is not working.  The reason is because I see you are copying some stuff from other ppl's JS, yet at least one item doesn't seem like it's supposed to work.  I want to be able to focus my attention on specific items that actually used to work. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Dont worry, Ish solved it. Noscript was blocking the .js ;p.. /fail &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 10:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

April Fools!
For next year, I have an idea-

alert("Your computer has been infected with a deadly virus. Click Ok to spread the virus to your disk drives.");


 * p. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 10:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time...
.. to discuss with me at length on the admin noticeboard, I really enjoyed that. Won't be the last time, I hope. ;) mendel 12:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bcrat
Congratz, should I fear you now? (fyi that was a joke, not a YAV violation :P) -- Shadowphoenix  04:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are not a sysop, you have nothing to fear from me, at least compared to before d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 14:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Felicitations; I look forward to working with you. Please update your admin info accordingly, when convenient... (T/C) 05:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Mazltov. Banjthulu is better than you 05:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Grats PanSola. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 17:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

From your self-statement I thought you weren't too eager to take the job. How do you feel now? I'm certain that Entropy won't regret that decision. mendel 22:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I am no more eager about being a Bcrat vs being a Sysop. The powers have important implications to the wiki, but they don't get invoked often so it's not that big a deal. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Henchmen article
Could you please comment on Talk:Henchman? I have no idea why the parts were transcluded. mendel 14:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Kirin <--> Titan
Bump :P --   I~sk8   (T/C) 02:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Blah, yeah, when you wanna do the trade? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 05:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Whenever you can be ingame I suppose. I am usually on mornings and evenings (Central time)  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   I~sk8   (T/C) 17:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I pinged you three times last night )-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I've been super busy with moving furniture and cleaning the past 2 days. I will be definitely be in game tomorrow. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   I~sk8   (T/C) 21:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

input desired
would love your input on Bot tasks/License reminder if you haven't already seen it. JediBot 22:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

ProfessionIcon replacement
I rewrote and the templates that call it so that I am able to use  and the like as unnamed parameters.

displays first and second unnamed parameter dervish is unnamed 1 - see, it breaks works with workaround,but that sucks only this really uses the feature with workaround

some text mendel dervish, note: not broken My Dervish can do the nowrap bit as well breaks workaround

Added benefit:No big template with the code for all the icons. Or is that a drawback? After all, if you want to change the icons, you have to change many templates? Reading the talkpage for professionicon I get the impression some other people would have liked the functionality, so no! Additional benefits for keeping the icon in the template: Whatlinkshere for the icon works, template can stay unprotected because vandalising is more difficult (no central vulnerability), uses less system resources than the old D.

Please let me make those. I'd even do the redirects (Template:Dervish to Template:D etc.). --mendel 22:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Um, can you explain what is wrong with the current template? I'm not understanding what is currently preventing you to use  "as unnamed parameters". Um, can you explain why you'd want to use a template call as a parameter for the ? other templates?  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you point me to where the demand to use the profession icon templates as unnamed parameters for other templates arise? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:50, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * See Ishy's page. --mendel 09:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Create A Hero contest
You are invited to join. Check it out!<strong style="color: black;">reanor 04:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hiya
I don't think I'd be breaking any laws by simply copying it, but I'd like to ask your permission anyway. May I copy the customized monaco skin over to other wikis for my personal use? 05:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What licenses would these other wikis be using? There is no "personal use" unless you copy it to your hard disk and set it up in your browser - everything on a wiki is publicly published. --mendel 09:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be primary for use on the Guild Wars Guilds wiki, and I had thought I could simply configure User:Felix Omni/Monaco.css to replicate the changes Pan made to Monaco here. I hope that's the case, because I've really grown accustomed to using it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So you won't be breaking any laws only if PanSola consents to have his modfications GFDL-licensed, unless you specifically add a note to your Monaco.css indicating which portions are by PanSola and are CC-BY-NC-SA licensed - but if that is legal, you don't need PanSola's permission (but it is nice to have it). --mendel 22:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I am still waiting for your approval on this, Pan. :) [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 11:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Due to the shift to New Monaco, I won't be using Monaco anymore on either this wiki or Guild Wars Guilds- it's not as though I could pick and choose with Wikia's preferences system anyway. I do appreciate your go-ahead, though. :) [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Important Monaco CSS Stuff
What exactly is going on with the monaco customizations? Why is some stuff in MediaWiki:Monaco-common.css? Where is the default css for monaco? Please post stuff relating to this Forum:Monaco customization there. &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 18:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where I should reply on the Forum page (or if I'm suppose to reply on the forum talk page), since use of that namespace is a new thing and we aren't using it in a way that is being used on other wikis anyways so I have absolutely no clue what the convention we are using is. Anyways, there is no "default editable css" for monaco skin, unless we turn the entire site default to "monaco-custom".  THe only way to currently affect all monaco skins is via MediaWiki:Common.css (to prevent it from affecting other skins, specify a monaco-specific selector in the css rules). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In other words, the content in MediaWiki:Monaco-common.css only actually applies to a user if they have USERNAME/monaco.css set to import the changes, like mine? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Correct. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Template:Rfa_top
There is something majorly bugged in this template, because the lefthand side of the page overlaps the page entirely. I was going to apply the top and bottom to the archived RFA for R.Phalage, but I have no idea how to use this template for one, and I saw this when I went to that page. Figured that I'd bring it to your attention, because, I doubt its supposed to do that. --   I~sk8   (T/C) 02:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't show up right because its only half a template. Its got an open div that is closed in the bottom template. If you use them both together, it should work fine. &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 03:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

placeholders
Could I use your placeholder articles (or even just one of them) for a couple other categories? Specifically, Category:Incorrect copyright details and Category:Unattributed images. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 04:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

R.Phalange's sysoption
Hello there, sorry to harass you but I'm not happy with Auron's sysoption of R.Phalange. There has been quite a discussion on Auron's talk page and I believe both of us have made our positions clear. Although I appreciate the straightforward way in which Auron has responded to me I nevertheless feel that the correct process hasn't been followed and that the community's wishes has been ignored. I also harbour some serious reservations on Auron's suitability as a bureaucrat. If you feel that due to the fairly serious nature of the matter and given our respective positions, that this should go to our Requests for arbitration then I'm happy for that to happen. Either way I'd like your opinion on the matter as a bureaucrat. It does pain me a little to post this, back way back when I used to play the game regularly, I used to guest Auron a bit, he's not a bad guy. But that has no bearing in this matter, basically I don't see how someone with such low regard for the both the policies he's supposed to be enforcing and community's input can possibly know what's best for them and can furthermore make a good bureaucrat. FYI, I've posted an identical message on JediRogue's talk page. --Xasxas256 11:14, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. How long did it take you to come up with something? --Xasxas256 06:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it's a busy weekend. I've been working on composing the reply since shortly after your message, on Saturday... -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well that's a disappointingly long time! I wanted to email you so many times since I first posted on Auron's talk page but I felt that was unfair even if people were probably talking about it on IRC (ie talking about it privately). Do you think you would have pushed the issue as thoroughly as I did? It didn't look like MP47 was going to so I thought I probably should but maybe another user would have anyway, perhaps M.mendel or someone else. I've been following GWiki events pretty closely of late and I haven't been this active in discussion for a long time. I think I did a reasonable job of getting Auron to clarify his position but I'm not sure I managed to do the same for my own. I think my greatest failing as a sysop is my inability to write as concisely and clearly as you do. I think my ability to analyse a situation is ok although I do get it wrong sometimes but mostly I'd like to be able to put forward my arguments and arrange thoughts better, particularly when I am not able to talk with someone else. Interestingly the other person I think excelled in this regard was Xeeron, maybe it's a coincidence but perhaps the English language makes for messy writing and/or thought process.
 * Despite what you've written it doesn't sound like anything will come of this which was what I wanted least of all. I'd even prefer to hear it decreed that bureaucrats can do whatever the hell they like as long as they've got community support behind them. I think this is a significant change from anything we've had before, not just the action itself but the way it's been implemented and there should be some recognition of that. Final point, even though sysops have traditionally avoided commented RFAs, if I'd thought this one was going to be successful I would have added my thoughts before it was closed. Oh and not that any betting agency was taking bets on it but if they were, I would have put my money on you to reply before JediRogue did! --Xasxas256 07:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think I would've pushed the issue as throughly as you did, because I personally felt it's not necessary to go to that extent (but I don't oppose others who feel the need).  Any clarity and conciseness of mine comes at the price of taking the extra time ("disappointingly long") to re-organize my thoughts, and put them in bullet points to help visualize where one point ends and another one starts.  Not sure what the "unfairness" you mentioned was about, what you wanted to email me about or why would it be unfair etc.  While like you said nothing structurally will probably come out of this, I am hoping that Auron will learn from his faults, both those he self-admitted, and those that I am trying to get him to see.  I hope the day will never come when I run out of patience and give up on his potential to learn, when I stop just criticizing his actions but start to doubt his qualifications. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi PanSola, you write: "In the end though, sysop is just a user entrusted with the ability to Ban/Del/Prot". I've seen that argument used before, but it's not true (or at least it wasn't true when Administrate users, not content was written). In disputes not concerning editing matters, admins have the final say - I assume that is because since they have the trust of the community, they can speak for the community.

Dr Ishmael and others have made the point that the arguments on the RfA might have been more thorough had we known that Auron supported R.Phalange, and for what reasons. In other words, no-one formulates an elaborate, well researched position for a perceived opened-and-shut case. I am not sure if asking you to reopen the RfA, i.e. to invite discussion on R.Phalange himself, is a good idea; if it's just "to appease the public" it's just going to be a waste of time. I'd have liked to discuss what Auron claims are Gem's failings; about what edits of brain12 impressed him and why; how [this] is a rare example where we can compare a community consensus decision with an admin's intent; how User_talk:Maui illustrates that R.Phalange doesn't get our users and is thus, at this point, not going to be a great sysop for this wiki - unless, of course, one plans to make the users fit the admins.

I thank you for having the courage to openly critizise Auron; that must not have been an easy decision to take. As usual, there is a bit for me to ponder and learn. Thank you. --◄mendel► 10:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "how User_talk:Maui illustrates that R.Phalange doesn't get our users and is thus, at this point, not going to be a great sysop for this wiki". Talk page spam is degrading this wiki. Do I, or any other admin on any wiki for that matter, serve solely the community that wishes to spam talk pages, in disregard to the wiki? Don't think that I don't "get" you, because I do; I just don't agree with it. I don't see why I should agree to talk page spam when its effects are detriment in maintaining the wiki. Likewise, it's not essential that I must agree to this detrimental act in order to be part of "your" community and a sysop. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  11:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One does not join a community simply by thrusting himself into it and expecting to be welcomed, particularly one in your situation. Do you feel accepted by the community, Phalange? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 11:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "One does not join a community simply by thrusting himself into it and expecting to be welcomed." So I'm not valuable (i.e. part of this sacred community) because I'm not part of your community (i.e. not accepted or welcomed) when I join? Nice.
 * Do I feel accepted? No, but does that matter? It's not my problem if I'm not accepted by "the community" as long as I can contribute however I usually would as a user or sysop. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  11:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You seem to misinterpret everyone's comments as hostile and respond in kind. I simply asked you if you feel accepted. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 11:26, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflicts, now even more true) Speaking as an outsider myself, agree with Felix (both comments). Phalange, you seem to have caught Auron's "I have the power to do this therefore I can do this because my intentions are only to help/save the wiki" bug. The community (rightly or wrongly) is upset over how you were promoted.  You are going to have to work to earn their trust.  Coming in on your big white charger determined to change everything ain't going to do it.  Read PanSola's point 5 in his comments on Auron's talk page.  I know you're used to GWW, with its contingent of whiners who stop anything effective being done whilst contributing little positve (and, honestly, they should just be told to take a hike), but the people upset here (Mendel, Quizzical, even Felix) are the people who actually keep this wiki afloat.  Alienating them will only harm the wiki, no matter how right you are on talk page spam.Lurkerabove 11:30, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * R. Phalange, "I'd have liked to discuss" means I don't actually like to do it now, and especially not here. The matter does not concern PanSola much. If you want me to answer, please raise the point on my talkpage, or on yours. --◄mendel► 12:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Notes randomly responding to various comments above:
 * I have no intention or interest to reopen Phalange's RfA. That's kinda pointless.  I was talking about Auron should've filled in the rebuttles *on* that old RfA before closing it, and I am interested in eventually revamping the RfA process itself.
 * I'm personally biased against excessive talk page spams, but like how I dealt with some of the Auron and May stuff, I have been inclined to let talk page spamming slide. I hope I can find ways to positively redirect the energy used for spam (though I haven't taken much action or been successful at what little I have attempted), I do not wish to negatively prohibit ppl chatting on talk pages.  Still, that puts me in a sympathizing position with other people who have issues with talk page spamming.
 * Talk page spamming itself isn't an activity that *most* of our users partake. It just happens to be the most visible because it's flooding other stuff out of the RC.  And it also hasn't been something of a concern until recent months.  I'm deeply troubled by some people's idea that talk page spamming is actually a characteristic of this wiki.
 * mendel has a great point in bringing up Administrate users, not content. Although it also brought to my attention that perhaps something on that policy page needs to be reworded.  Admins do have a final say, as much as other admins have the ability to overturn it.  So it's not all that final if the decision proves to be controversial (among admins).  Thus a form of check and balances still exist, and hopefully users involved will bring forth the different points of views to alert the other admins if one of them is going out of line.  Thus I still feel this particular case isn't a very big deal.
 * People are valuable, even when they are wrong, misguided, or not fit in. People are valuable even when circumstances made them not welcomed/accepted (or not feel welcomed) by members of the vocal community.  People are valuable even when they are doing the right thing but get misperceived by others as being disruptive/destructive and get criticized/flamed. As long as they have positive intentions, they are valuable.  But it takes collaboration to make the contributions with positive intentions turn into actual value for the wiki/community.  Phalange, as I mentioned on Auron's talk page previously, it takes working with the existing community to bring forth positive changes in the wiki (if that is your intention, as opposed to merely helping with the upkeep of the wiki).  As a minor case study, witness how much energy has been wasted (IMHO) on redundant walls of text by various people over the matter on your sysophood because Auron has a communication issue (among other things I suppose).  This is as much distraction for the wiki as random talk page spam.  Sure, a few good things might come out of it (such as if I ever go revamp the RfA process), but I think it would've been better overall if we could've avoided these issues from the beginning entirely. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "witness how much energy has been wasted (IMHO) on redundant walls of text by various people" When one person feels passionately enough about a subject to write a WoT about it, I might call that wasted energy.  When multiple people feel concerned enough about something that they all write multiple WoTs about it, I'd call that a real discussion.  When the people involved include some of the most reasonable people in this community - Xasxas, Quizzical, and mendel - I'd call that a serious issue that shouldn't be blown off by calling it a "distraction for the wiki".  Of course it would've been better had this entire issue been avoided, but it's a little too late for that now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The entire situation could have been avoided, if R. would have declined the position and actually contribute (of the non trolling kind) a bit; we could have avoided any such drama here. I have yet to see where Brians (R., Pling, w/e he wants to call himself) deserves adminship on this wiki.  Imho the RfA should be reopened, and another bcrat make the choice.  I don't think Brains understands this community enough to be an admin here, not to mention his trolling does not help his stance much.  -- Shadowphoenix  17:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ishmael, I consider the energy "wasted" if things could've been done differently to prevent the need for the WoT. If things could've been done differently to prevent a nuclear meltdown, but Superman end up having to come and save the day instead of helping with other issues that cannot be prevented, then yes, this nuclear meltdown is a distraction that wasted Superman's energy which could've been better put to other good use. Of course, Superman did what was necessary, but it was still a distraction and a waste of energy.  The people who could've prevented the neculear melt down was distracting Superman and wasting his energy.  That was my point. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That was my misunderstanding, thanks for clearing it up. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I didn't mean to imply this incident is on the scale of a nuclear disaster. It was more of a side example that illustrates the same point, and not a direct analogy for this incident.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk Page Spam
Talk page spam is like "mandatory fun day", only it's not mandatory. It makes the wiki a fun place to be. I speculate that some of the "bureaucratic" editors that do consistency edits, general cleanup, or help/deal with new users don't play GW that much any more, and that they would leave the wiki altogether (or become a lot less active) if the community activities went away.

The "enhanced recent changes" effectively fold talk page spam into a single line; you can assume that if it's that heavily edited by (among others) trusted users there is no need to patrol the page while the spam is ongoing. Some people don't like to use enhanced RC: why?

Cascades have been known on Usenet for decades. --◄mendel► 08:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Imho, ERC is a bit messy. Have used it a few moments, but didn't like it. That aside, when there's a lot of user talk spam, I filter it out. Takes 10 secs. (one tab with filtered user talk and one "normal RC" tab ftw) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  08:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There's been so much talk page spam which, happily, can now be relegated to the much more suitable realm of IRC. In the meantime, I wish more people would actually contribute some more meaningful edits, such as finishing the rechecking of armor crafting information which hasn't been completed in over a year and some articles still contain incorrect information. Many hands make light work. It feels as though the number of people prepared to make the time and effort to consistently improve this place rather than just RC patrol or socialising can be counted on the fingers of my two hands compared with GWW which has far more contributors. If that's the way it's going to be, I sometimes just feel it's not worth the effort and this place should just be left to die, as it seems it inevitably will. Jennalee 09:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There are two separate issues related to Talk Page spamming that I was bringing up:
 * The flooding of RC
 * It is only a relatively recent phenomenon that caught on with a small group of users, as opposed to being an entrenched/essential part of GuildWiki.
 * This discussion is focused on issue 1. I personally have been using enhanced RC since 2005.  But even at 250 or 500 edits per page, excessive talk page spamming can still flood out the other activities from my attention.  What is worse is that if there is a series matter happening on a user talk page, it becomes hard to distinguish it from a normal chain of talk page spamming (this wouldn't be as bad if more ppl put meaningful edit summaries, but edit summary itself doesn't fully solve this issue either).  Enhanced RC folds all edits on the same page into one line, it does not distinguish talk page spam from important discussions on the user talk page.  I remember once totally neglected to notice some quite major issue brought up on Entropy's talk page, because it was during a time that her talk page was a target of friendly spam.  With the way the spams grow, it becomes quite hard to keep track and keep up with things. Of course, this doesn't answer your question of why ppl don't use ERC.  To me, the usage of ERC doesn't alleviate the issues brought forth by talk page spamming. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * My answer to issue number two was that recently we have people who don't play much GuildWars any more but help keep the wiki running because of the community, and the unsaid conclusion was that this brings forth the GW spam. Not an impression I could put definite names to, though. *cough*Rohan*cough* --◄mendel► 19:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And I believe there are better outlets of that energy that can still keep the fun while not be as distracting and get in the way of everyone (including themselves) trying to keep the wiki running. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:19, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, I am not proposing a ban on talk page spamming or anything. #2 is mostly challenging the claim that those who dislike/oppose talk page spamming "does not get" our users.  The people who take part in the spamming IS a relative minority, AND the activity IS a recent development and has not been around long enough to be able to be considered as an entrenched part of this wiki's culture, yet.  Most of our users don't do talk page spamming.  There is insufficient evidence to judge whether most of our users endorse talk page spamming, oppose (but tolerate it), or are indifferent.  Thus I believe it is incorrect to claim that people who have a stance against talk page spamming "doesn't get our users". -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * PanSola, I haven't even made that point properly that you refer to (I haven't made any of the points properly that I hinted at above), so your reply sort of misses the point I would have made if a discussion about R.Phalange wasn't a waste of time. I don't mind R.Phalange objecting to Talk Page Spam (TPS), but he did so in a very confrontational way - if it was intentional, it is borderline trolling, and if it wasn't intentional, it is a sign he doesn't get the audience. I do that, too, sometimes, but I am not claiming to have vast admin experience, and I try to be aware of it. --◄mendel► 22:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, from reading your comments on Auron's talk page, I misunderstood your point. I misunderstood your point to be that his stance on the subject was the reason why you said he doesn't get the audience.  If I understand your above clarification correctly, your point is actually that his confrontational approach is the reason you said he doesn't get the audience? (trying to understand your point correctly). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, at the time I just thought "the way he's going about it just isn't going to work - he doesn't get them/us", and it didn't. Stop the fun! Start working, you bastards! (Whip cracks) --◄mendel► 06:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a community, not a labor camp. If we aren't allowed to have friendly conversations with each other (Which help us to get to know other users better), then I'm out. On an unrelated side note, I'm getting two taskbars at the top of a page when I'm editing it.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 06:48, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Another note: I was around (or at least had an account) before Marcopolo, Shadowcrest, Warwick, Vipermagi, Maui, and a few other "big" contributors. I noticed that pretty much from the day they joined, their talkpages were spammed. This is not a bad thing. I believe that because they made friends on the wiki almost instantly, through talkpage "spam", they turned into the kind of contributors they are today. The kind of people who take care and maintain the wiki on a daily basis. They have a personal stake in the wiki, and a reason to visit it, which is why they stick around. --Macros 07:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Friendly conversation != meaningless spam for the sake of spamming. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, "first" != friendly conversation. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  18:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it was an enjoyable (though meaningless) activity that served to lighten the mood of a community which has suffered all too much lately. Do you honestly believe that's a bad thing? Mendel's is better. Read on... [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If it was meaningless, it wouldn't have been funny, it wouldn't have been creative, it wouldn't have involved more than two or three people. There is meaning for people that partake in an common activity; it brings them closer together; and when the barrier to entry isn't all that high, well, that may be a good thing. It shows a spirit of openness and extends an invitation to people that don't yet belong to existing cliques. Of course, if you feel that the editors of this wiki shouldn't be close together - if that has no value -, then the activity has indeed no meaning. Could you justify User:Ereanor/Create_A_Hero if you had to? --◄mendel► 19:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You are partially right in the sense that it's not completely meaningless. However, I was using the term to characterize the random spam that don't convey any contextual meaning, versus the usage of "meaning" in phrases like "the meaning of life".  On the other hand, just because it has "meaning" in the sense of your usage, doesn't necessarily give it value (or doesn't necessarily give it value to justify its cost).  There are many ways a group of people can bond and become closer together.  Some of them are productive (beyond their capacity to bring people closer), some are neutral, some may get in the way of others, and some are outright destructive.  An open invitation to ask the new kid on the block to join a group of gangsters on a vandalism spree fits the positive characteristics you prescribed above (more than 2 or 3 ppl, there are creative ways to vandalize, and the ppl doing it find it funny/fun) and thus has meaning, but causes more problem to the general community than the good it does to help that kid not being alone.  (Contextual) meaningless spam is something that, when in excess, can get in the way of others trying to be productive while itself being neutral in moderation (beyond their capacity to bring people closer).  There are many ways to be friendly, be inviting, be open, and help bond.  Heck, even a "Hi, how was your day?", "How did your test go?", or a discourse on the weather beats (contextual) meaningless talk page spam for the sake of spamming by a hundredfold. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 06:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "a discourse on the weather beats (contextual) meaningless talk page spam" - ah, we'll have to agree to disagree then. --◄mendel► 09:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the way I see it (I think this is what Pan is saying also, but i don't quite understand): "+1" is spam. "Spam pyramids" are spam. "firsts" are a talkpage tradition by now, but that Maui thing was getting a bit excessive. Compare that to Ereanor's Create-A-Hero Contest. Or Gigathrash's Beauty Pageant. Or Cobalt's Create-A-Skill Contest. (some users may not remember the last two events) While they may generate equal volume of RC flooding and such, I think there is a world of difference between these two types of activities. Yes, they both bring the community closer together. They help lighten the mood for everyone. They are a great way to have fun, relax, and meet friends. But I find the latter category to be so much more meaningful than the former. Heck, even "Mafia" is good in that way - it has a purpose, an objective. There are meaningful results at the end; some day you can look at a userpage and a userbox will say, "I won 1st place in Contest X." Fond memories! But who remembers spam pyramids? :S
 * I guess everything must be taken in perspective. Two users having a friendly chat about RL isn't spam; congratulating someone on a birthday isn't spam either. Rickrolls are probably spam, but who knows? Maybe it's an exceptionally hilarious joke. I guess what it all comes down to is that things ought to be kept in proportion. What upsets users like R.Phalange and me about talkpage posting is when it seems like that is the only thing which is going on - the "defining characteristic" of GuildWiki. People always say that "there is nothing else to do", that "the mainspace is finished", etc. To some extent that is true - there is rarely anything new in Guild Wars these days, which takes more than a few minutes to update. But look at Jennalee's plaintive/frustrated cry for help above; or look at the huge amount of work that Quizzical still manages to put in on the mission articles. Clearly there is still a lot that needs to get done. I know those two users do a lot of work, and I don't mind at all if they have a bit of fun on talkpages. I do not want to imply that I think that "they deserved it" through their hard work, because GuildWiki has NEVER had a policy like GWW:USER or some of Wikipedia's more...harsh talkpage policies. Spamming is a right, not a privilege, and it is one of the few advantages that we can really hold to. The problem is, as R.Phalange and I know, that ultimately what you gain in community you lose in content quality, unless everyone is a Jennalee, Quizzical, or Wizardboy. And I wouldn't force that on anyone. It really is a quite interesting paradoxical problem... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Input Appreciated
Hey. I'm not sure whether or not you're aware of this, but I'm planning to revise RFA in the near-ish future. In preparation, I created this, and I'd appreciate your input. Thanks in advance. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  22:42, 26 June 2008 (UTC)