Talk:Arcane Echo

"Arcane Echo ends prematurely if you use a non-spell skill." So the "waiting" period will end prematurely if you use a non-spell skill, but once AE copies something, you can use non-spell skills and the copied skill will still be there for 20 seconds?
 * Yes. The enchantment will end no matter what if you use a skill.  Once you've copied something, the skill remains copied for 20s.  --Fyren 10:50, 6 November 2005 (EST)
 * What I meant is, if I have Life Siphon copied and during that time, I use Mantra of Recovery, will the copied Life Siphon instantly turn back into Arcane Echo?
 * I answered that. --Fyren 20:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

"Use Glyph of Sacrifice before casting the echoed spell. This will allow that echo to be cast instantly, and the extra recharge time won't matter because Arcane Echo has its own timer." Is this what's happening? [Spell] > Arcane Echo > Glyph > Echo'ed Spell If so, wouldn't the echo'ed spell have an extra 90-second recharge time, resulting in it reaching the 20-second limit before you can use it again? Or did I get this completely wrong and that the AE'ed spell can only be casted once anyways?


 * The suggestion is arcane echo, spell, sacrifice, spell. The idea is if the spell already has a recharge longer than 20s, you'll only get to cast it once anyway, so the +90s doesn't matter.  Even so, I don't think it's a very useful tip.  --Fyren 12:10, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I beg to differ, Fyren =) The advantage is the second instance of the spell being echoed can't be interrupted. Invaluable for those annoyingly long casting spells like Meteor Shower or Maelstorm (pve nuking, of course). --Kiiron 13:31, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * In PvE, if you're going to get interrupted, then the first one will probably be interrupted, too. Something like mantra of resolve would work better, since then it'll protect both casting and arcane echo.  --Fyren 13:34, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * In PvE, it's trivially easy to avoid being interrupted if you hang back and let the other party members (or henchies) draw agro first. It's not until after you first attack an enemy or heal an ally that you have to worry about interruption. Also, other methods of avoiding interruption require points to be spent in the attribute, but glyphs require none. It's a very situational fix to avoid interruption, I agree, but it works wonders for echo nuking. --Kiiron 13:41, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Well, now you've gone from "it's good to avoid interruption" to "it's trivially easy to avoid interruption." If all the enemies waste interrupts on henchmen or other party members, you have at least 15s till they recharge and you have time to cast anything in the game twice.  --Fyren 14:09, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * interestring combo BUT Echo and Arcane Echo are the most vulnerable skills to interruppts, someone can interrupt echo, or the skill to be echoed or even this Glyph of Sacrifice, and this strategy becomes useless. So you need Mantra of Resolve with this!! Anyways Interrupting someone who casts echo is always "double fun" no matter if you use this glyph or not because you interrupt 2 skills with one hit, someone who doesnt just failed in the game, even if he faces mantra of resolve.
 * Me+E generally uses echo/arcane echo if the skill recharges faster than 15 seconds and glyph of renewal if it recharges longer than 15 seconds. No place for the glyph or sacrifice so whats the point in this combo? Here's one funny but barely usefull combo for elementalists with too much energy against foes that have a lot of armor and no excessive interrupt or any knockdown:
 * Three metheor showers within 7 seconds with a 7 second preperation time = making 3 metheor showers out of 1 every 65 seconds:
 * 00 sec : 5 energy - arcane echo
 * 02 sec : 30 energy - meteor shower cast at "7", recharged at "67"
 * 07 sec : 35 energy - glyph of renewal
 * 08 sec : 60 energy - echoed meteor shower with instant recharge cast at "13"
 * 13 sec : 65 energy - glyph of sacrifice
 * 14 sec : 90 energy - echoed meteor shower instantly cast at "14"
 * 28 sec : echoed meteor ends and arcane echo recharges till "58"
 * 60 sec : 105 energy - Mantra of Resolve ;)
 * 65 sec : arcane echo (same as at "0" above)
 * 67 sec : meteor shower (same as at "2" above)
 * the circle goes 65 seconds (mantra of resolve and arcane echo can be cast earlier to initiate the loop). you gain ~90 energy meanwhile (and regenerate ~22 exhaustion). you have to "make" extra ~18 more energy (+ whatever you lose for every interrupt by mantra of resolve) with skills you cast in the 44 second gap in between the last meteor shower and mantra of resolve, not so hard with 4 more free skill slots and 11 inspiration magic.

I rewrote the notes. It's pretty much the same, but I removed the repetition and one or two obvious things. One thing that's incorrect was that if you begin casting a spell and that spell is interrupted, you lose the echo enchantment. You don't. You keep it. Of course, whatever plan you had is probably screwed. --Fyren 12:06, 7 November 2005 (EST)

Interaction with glyphs
The text snipped was:
 * Activating Arcane Echo removes any activated and pending Glyphs, while activating Glyphs will remove a pending Arcane Echo. (This suggests that Arcane Echo might actually be a Glyph, though it isn't presented that way to the user. It may merely be a bug.)

The bit about it being a bug is nonsense. Glyphs affect the next spell and AE is a spell. AE ends prematurely if the next skill is not a spell, and Glyphs aren't spells. I see no inconsistency. Furthermore, AE cannot be a glyph because it is strippable, whereas glyphs aren't. &mdash; Stabber 03:23, 22 March 2006 (CST)


 * OK, duly noted. Thanks for clearing that up.  I was poorly informed and didn't realize that AE automatically ended prematurely when a non-spell skill was used. --JoDiamonds 03:46, 22 March 2006 (CST)

Not offered in Kamandan
Just wanted to comment that I just checked with Prophecies Elementalist/Mesmer and a Factions Mesmer/Monk. Arcane Echo is not offered by Tohn, the skill trainer in Kamadan, Jewel of Istan. I'll update the page to indicate that, but I've not gotten very far in Nightfall to be able to say where it is first offered. If any of you can do so, it would be appreciated. -- Mike Arms 15:42, 3 December 2006 (CST)