User talk:Entropy/Archive 33

first
stop cheating, felix (T/C) 21:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was promised a wtf chain. Where is it? Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 23:44, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Your wtf chain has been temporarily postponed in the tube mail. Please try again later.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  00:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If Felix hadn't defiled my virgin talkpage, then you'd have your wtf chain. I abdicate myself of all responsibility. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Mmm-mm, virgin talkpage. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My talkpage was allowed to approach the Unicorn. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not anymore.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 05:42, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Unicorns and virgins don't get along, eventually one of them will become a horse and/or a whore.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Turtle's for all
&#x70B9; 点 -- Hangul FTW Himm Taeguk  (T/C) 22:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * After a bit more research... I think it's hangul anyhow :-s. It's from the CJK (China, Jap, Korea) lot. Off to sleep, claim prizes later :-) Himm Taeguk  (T/C) 23:00, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ohhh <3 thank youuuu~ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"I have ventured into the night and returned. You shall not!"
Entropy (C) 04:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * eh okay man [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Have fun with that.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 04:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It was a lot of fun. You should be glad I'm poor, otherwise I may as well just quit Buildwars. It really does bore me to tears now 90% of the time. Stupid monthly fees and not having a job... :( Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Then, get one. (Seriously guys, life isn't that hard, you see a problem, you fix it, no higher thinking needed, just a direct correlation)--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  04:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Inactive
Thank you for the time and effort you have poured into this wiki which you have thereby indelibly shaped. There won't be cake. -- ◄mendel► 12:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

WTB Emerald Blade
don't care stats as long as it's inscribable, though ofc I'd pay more the closer it is to perfect. bonus for Enchanting and +5e mods already on it. also have a number of items which I could trade for it. Entropy (C) 11:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

01:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm glad I made that account. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 01:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Holy shit
With the changes to the Xunlai Tournament House, I can now predict on all three of my accounts instead of just my main, with no need to know the XTH accounts/passwords. Maybe this will convince me to do XTH. :> Entropy  (C) 01:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * UMG?! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Felix Omni (contribs).
 * JOYNESS! Anet emailed me and said that with this change my account is no longer linked to a beta NC account that would wtf mess up their servers if I accessed it!--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  03:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, this is how it should have originally been if not in-game itself.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 03:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Amen. Also, buying accounts becomes even more profitable now. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Semantic MediaWiki
Greetings, number 5 in the Top users panel! If you're not the best person here to talk about Semantic MediaWiki, please tell me who is. Your wiki is listed as using some SMW functions. We on Genealogy are just starting. Is there anyone here with tips to pass on?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd probably talk to User:Mendel - but he watches this page, so he'll probably get back to you Random Time  13:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * PanSola is more or less in charge of SMW integration, since he's the only one who cared. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I care(d), I just think it's (mostly) a bad idea. :) Anyway, I replied on User talk:Robin Patterson. -- ◄mendel► 05:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's good, because I don't know anything about SMW anyway, other than it annoys me. :] Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 02:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Dousing Dhaos at ACEN
Brian and I were wandering booths in the dealer's room, and we came across this one with a couple REALLY nice 1/8 scale Tales of Phantasia figurines. There were 3 Mints and 1 Arche. I stared at them for a while, and then turned to Brian and said "Hey Brian. Between the two of them, which would you rather have on your desk? Mint has that air of quiet elegance, but I bet Arche-" Then he told me to shut up and ran away. I bought the Arche. 23:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * XD wtb pics. btw, I still don't get what is so cool about Saber. She's not even (that) hot. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 02:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because you haven't played the game :<  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 02:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can it be creatively acquired? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if you do so you have to make a silent vow to purchase the full version if you ever see it for sale. Because no one rips off TYPE-MOON. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Too late, the torrent already started and there's nothing you can do to stop me! (Inferior being.) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can spoilers you. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You require more Vespene ethylene gas. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a happy section.  &not; «Ðêjh»   (talk)  02:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

g-g-g-g-g-graphics card
Now taking suggestions for what graphics card one should get if they want to game on a laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad T61p, type 6457-B64, Vista Ultimate OS). Entropy (C) 04:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

oversight
Hmm, did one of the wikia staff delete that revision where the vandal displayed your page source all over your userpage from sight? I've a mind to ban them if I knew who it was. :-( -- ◄mendel► 09:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * hmm, nevermind, that was your talkpage. -- ◄mendel► 09:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * pretty sure that was a joke edit from a certain user who wanted to "demonstrate" the position:absolute vandalism, else I dunno what you're talking about Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm talking about. -- ◄mendel► 10:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind if you banned Warwick... :p Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 20:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

What the hell?
Why are all pages "View Source" as if they are protected? Where did the editsections go? Entropy (C) 10:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

How strange, it seems to be fine again... Entropy (C) 11:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unannounced database lock? --Macros 11:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Those happen all the time :< Quite annoying, but never long lasting. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Bear
I can 'ferry' you now if you want. Don't know your IGN. RoseOfKali 19:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh Em Gee, I was first to it. Linkie, hope this helps A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I refuse to make an IGN using or resembling "Entropy", for three reasons: 1) Some random shitter might recognize me. 2) I can't think of any good ways to use it in a name. 3) I already made Little Vili anyway, and I like my PvP slot.
 * Thanks for the bear, anyway. Should be amusing for IWAY. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 09:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for butting in... again... but don't forget, some random shitters think they have recognised you =) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And this is where Mule Was Entropy got added to my friends, so that I'm not like "Who the fuck is this?" 3 days later. :P And if I ever want to take a pet into PvP, it's Mr. Gaybird Skittles or nothing! :D RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is why my mule never leaves the guild hall. I've been thinking about getting him to level 20 or maybe even PvP-ready, but...eh, maybe I'll just play in asian districts or something. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 19:40, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you could just tell people they got the wrong person and that you've never been to the wiki. :P My encounters usually don't go past "Hey, I've seen you on the wiki!" "Cool. :D" the end... And I'm actually playing my other characters more than my main now, trying to get them to beat campaigns and learn some good skills. Rose just does some Zquests because she's the fastest in HM, or goes on a binge in some random town wearing some random disguise. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You were in my alliance for a while, back when Rask played Guild Wars. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The only time I ever got "recognised" was when some guy PM'ed the "last active user" to ask questions about stuff I didn't have a clue about ^^ .--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 12:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been recognized in game before... for some reason, they only recognized who I was after I transformed into an ooze... --Macros 14:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well thats a big surprise. I've never been recognized, exept for being bothered for free runs to ice tooth cave for the wiki party. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have not once gotten recognized from the wiki. I always recognize someone else, and then they realize who I am.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  04:29, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was most recently recognized in Etnaran Keys outpost and during a Fort Aspenwood battle. Of course, it helps that my IGN is Felix Omni, and Rose's is Rose Of Kali. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More people have realized my IGN is a reference to the Tales series than people that have recognized me from the wiki =/ Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 17:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When I'm on my PvP slots, those usually have strange names which no one would connect to me; however, I do roll the same names sometimes, so perhaps some people would remember. I do play a lot of AB with my usual PvE characters, but I've yet to be recognized or remembered there...which is, in some ways, a good thing. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 18:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Urgoz
Pleasure doing the mission with ya! (went as Tai Fang Shinden with Kanaxai Doombringer) GW-Susan 01:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You too. My Kurzick faction cap is happy. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 01:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice playin with ya, Entropy! Hope you can sell that Vertebreaker! Slypher the executive director 14:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read the ticket. (said in mock Gigathrash voice)
RSVP on User:Gigathrash/D&D IRC RP --Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 06:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC) -- AudreyChandler 06:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the whole thing had been called off. What gives? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 08:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Last I heard, Gigathrash just fumbled up the time zone conversions and scheduled something no one (including them) could conveniently attend. I assume they've returned to their abacus and sextant and are merely waiting for the stars to align properly again before re-setting a date/time. At this juncture I am led to suspect that your network of spies and informants has failed you, and a disciplinary execution is recommended to instill proper motivation in their future efforts. I have a spare scimitar if you need to borrow one. -- AudreyChandler 08:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

As seen in RA
--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 21:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget!
--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 18:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Concept art
I just found a load of old concept art, and only one of them had been previously uploaded here. Check them out here if you want. I don't exactly know the liscence (or how to spell that word), since I got the pictures off of the beta disk from pre-ordering the original game.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 21:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fansite kit license is best. I have hundreds of them on my HD, too many to upload, really. -- ◄mendel► 22:58, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Recent Changes
Apparently lost the collapse and expand option for me. Right now everything is permanently expanded.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 23:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Please report on your skin, your browser, any javascript errors you may be seeing, and check your personal prefereces, I think there is a setting (and also a toggle on the RC page itself?). -- ◄mendel► 23:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't know there was an option to collapse RC... Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm using Monobook and IE 7... but it fixed itself when the day changed... that was weird.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * .This is what it's supposed to look like. But for a few minutes, the blue arrows that collapse and expand edits to a single page disappeared and everything expanded.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, you're using the "other" kind of recent changes. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ?Other? Didn't know there was more than one kind...--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Winter in June ftw. Anyway, what you describe is what I get when I turn Javascript off in FF3, and presumably it would be similar in IE7, so let's take the easy way out and blame it on advertising JavaScript. If it happens again, see Help:Bad advertisements. -- ◄mendel► 06:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I use oldskool RC. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

moar theatre kthx
sGQ20yDDVzQ

-- ◄mendel► 09:29, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not bad. The UC Berkeley 8-bit Drumline is better though, imho. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

VALOO
Remember the other day when you were like "They should make a new Golden Sun game?" WEEEEEELL they are! 23:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Holy shit Foolix, now I might actually have an excuse to get a DS. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

<3
we should play guild wars again some time &mdash;Blastedt 19:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * omg like hi!
 * I'd love to, but my average ping these days is in the 4-digit or 5-digit range. It's really hard to play anything. >.> Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 20:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you need to drop your 28.8k modem. It isn't the early 90's anymore, Entropy, we do have a thing called cable internet, its awesome and fairly cheap.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 03:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My connection is perfectly fine, GW is the *only* thing that performs horribly. I'm not the only one experiencing this, either. But thank you for assuming. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FWIW, my otherwise-fine connection is also really mushy and bad in GW lately. The demented rubberbanding makes playing a melee prof nearly unbearable. In comparison, WoW is crisp as fresh lettuce. :P -- AudreyChandler 05:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FWIW? Frenzy With Illusionary Weaponry? Wow, failure :P --Gimmethegepgun 06:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * :( &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 20:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * What server(s) do you play on? :o Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Your bodies will ornate my chambers forever
The next IRC RP will be held at 5:00 UTC (10:00 p.m. pacific) THURSDAY Tell someone somewhere if you can't go. Also, RT, your schedule is basically opposite of everyone else's. Soz again.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  06:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Guh...I really shouldn't, I go to bed at like 9:00 pm now. But whatever, it'll be fun. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * NEVERMIND, I have a plane to catch Thursday. You can go ahead and write me out of the script. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 14:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Your name
Where did it come from. I met a person on a different game with the same name last night...Abbadons X 18:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't remember anymore. This is a fairly popular name for games, though, so there are probably a bunch of other "Entropy" users out there. I don't use it outside of Guild Wars. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 18:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I know the unreal tournament series uses Entropy as a name for one of the Liandri corporation robots so anyone who's played enough UT3 has probably "been killed by Entropy" -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  07:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /trolled. You're not online anymore bitch D:  rąʂKƴ <font color="Black">ɖooƿɭɘş  05:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have any reason TO be on Lag Wars. I can't do shit because the GW connection is suck and terrible and has been for weeks now. I can't PvP at all. I don't even want to do anything in PvE, since the only useful things I have left to do is getting my last characters through Nightfall. Which is boring as fuck. So I'd just be idling in the guild hall. And that's pretty pointless.
 * I might get on for Mamza, though. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You can get on for MAMZA but not for me. I see how it is. Whore <_<. By the way, I got everlasting cottontail tonic!!!!!!!!! >:D  rąʂKƴ <font color="Black">ɖooƿɭɘş  21:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I heard that you sold your friend's account for it. :[ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Grammar
"someone had told Salad and me" is of course correct. "Someone" is the subject, "had told" is the predicate, and "Salad and me" is the object, so you need to use objective case. -- ◄mendel► 10:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Damn, you beat me to it!--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 11:10, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Salad and me" are the objects. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:15, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 'fraid not AFK, that's a use/mention confusion. "Salad and me" is the phrase 'x', the phrase 'x' is the object. Since it's only one phrase 'is' is correct, not 'are'. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  11:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it was an excuse for me to sneak in and join the convo :( A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:34, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ezekiel is right, because your use of "are" indicates that you hold "Salad and me" as the subjects of your sentence, and then you have to write Salad and I are the objects of this sentence, since, no longer being objects, but subjects, objective case can no longer be used for "Salad and me". :-P -- ◄mendel► 12:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Selective blindness, Mendel? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hell, I just guessed the second one was correct. Never did I think that I could get a grammer question right. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know the theory behind that stuff, I do that on instinct (even though I'm not native English :P ).--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 12:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Both are incorrect.Meraida 13:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Entropy asked which is more correct :P The correct answer would be 'No. 2 is more correct', if Meraida is right. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) "Tell" is a weird verb anyway: I told him the secret; I told him about the secret; I told the secret to him (?); I talked to him about the secret. I told him. I told the secret. -- ◄mendel► 14:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup, thus it should be "me". But the other part of his sentence is incorrect. Meraida 14:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see where it is, if you don't want to insert "that" as an object to "told". -- ◄mendel► 14:52, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 'It would have been nice'~. on an English exam, my teacher gave me a 0 on a writing ex. for making such a fault. Meraida 14:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see what's wrong tbh...--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 15:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nazgir, Zoals je in het nederlands niet : 'Ik was gaan lopen' mag zeggen Meraida 15:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been."
 * - John Greenleaf Whittier &mdash; ◄mendel► 21:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * nice shot on that quote, mendel, but I still owned you on that one Meraida 04:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you had used the third conditional correctly, your English teacher would not have given you 0 points. I still don't understand why "It would have been nice if ..." is wrong. -- ◄mendel► 06:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We haven't learned Third cond yet, only 1st and 2nd. Meraida 10:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that explains it then. -- ◄mendel► 11:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I prefer to rephrase the sentence so the me vs I issue doesn't come up. Why? Because at least 20% of people will worry the grammar to death, distracting them from whatever point you were trying to make. e.g. Salad &amp; I would have preferred to have been warned before we vowed to hit, People Know Me. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the sentence could be reworded for more clarity: "It would have been nice if someone had told me before I vowed to hit your mother." --Raj4h 00:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also good. And here's your warning, "there are dire consequences when you vow to hit someone's mother." ;-)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...not as dire as when you hit their mother. As TEF found out last Thursday. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 09:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I find this whole section very depressing. >_> Entropy (C) 00:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Erase it then...we won't tell anyone... [[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 03:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I asked for it. I don't have revisiondelete anymore anyways. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Goodbye
My first edit in weeks. How ironic that I am talking about someone else's farewell.

I don’t know why I am up right now and why I’m on a wiki I haven’t edited in weeks, but I’m here now and decided to write this after seeing your userpage.

Entropy, your opinions on Guild Wars are basically the same as mine. Guild Wars isn’t fun anymore. Even though you started with Proph and I started with Factions, the grind that was introduced with the piece of shit called EotN was just ridiculous and unneeded, and the game just spiraled downhill from there. Also, ArenaNet’s constant addition of overpowered skills to the game is just ridiculous (though they did do some fixes, I have to credit them with that.) And know, this stupid latency shit, it took me almost 10 minutes just to get out of an outpost. I hadn’t played in a week and I was amazed to see what has happened to this game. I’m also looking at my userpage and all the games I have listed there are not completed: just like you, I’m missing out on all these due to Guild Wars. Now it is time to move on I guess, no sense staying with the dying game. (which I should have realized long ago.)

Also, unlike some Guild Wars players, I respect World of Warcraft and if you want to go off and play that, have fun! I played that game for 2 years and it’s still a great game despite some of its flaws. Even if you don't, enjoy your life as you set your own way.

In the end, Entropy, goodbye, even if I don’t see you around, I’ll miss you. I’ll end this on a classic Earthbound quote, which just seems fitting here:

I wish you luck...

Cress Arvein 06:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: You can give me sysop status at GW2W if you want, I don’t know if I will buy Guild Wars 2, but I guess I’ll find out later.


 * I'll keep it short; It would be nice to see you in GW2 (if I even buy it myself), but reading what you said it's rather unlikely ;)
 * Have fun/luck/peanuts (unless you're allergic) in WoW, life and whatever else you plan to do. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Have a lot of fun! I agree with your guildwars points, thus why I stopped playing for a year (I'm back, playing casually, but not really liking it as much as I originally did). I also don't hate WoW, it's a respectable game. See you around on the interwebs. [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  14:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * youre totally right; anet don't focuses on fun gameplay anymore, just about making cash under form of a 4th Anniversary party and XTH + makeing goldsinks ingame ,but sorry to say, but with WoW its just the same. Meraida 16:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Actiblizzion is making a lot more money doing that, though :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll play WoW if someone offers to buy me the campaigns and pay my subscription. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 17:10, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You leave this game and go back to an inferior one? ...  If you're looking for something that can keep you occupied for a while, take up Ultima Online, srsly.  Sure, it looks old, and is probably the oldest surviving MMORPG to this day.  However, it is the only one, aside from Guild Wars, I still have any vested interest in, and I've been playing it since it came out some 11-12 years ago (in some capacity, mostly freeshards because I have no money).  Shit, if you come over to Demise, we could hang out and beat shit up with clubs.  You could be a member of Sun Wu!  That and there's more dragons in UO.  Hear that?  Motherfucking dragons.  That you get to kill more than one of at any given time.  That and you can summon swarms of bees.  Swarms.  Of.  Bees.  That kill things like crazy.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 18:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RT recommends Oblivion, although that's just because the WoW trial actually made me go to sleep (heck, I was overtired, I should give it another shot) [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  21:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RH...um... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "That and you can summon swarms of bees." Context is important.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 23:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mysterious Summoning Stone Roland Cyerni 00:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I thank everyone for their kind words, especially Cress. :o Money has very little to do with anything; I'd be more than happy to pony up for ANet if that would help make a funner game, but they really have to get their priorities straight first. A laggy game is an ugly game, even downright unplayable. It doesn't matter how many Zaishen Menageries you add to the game if no one can enjoy them. Compare that to WoW. They churn out new content much faster than ArenaNet does. They listen to concerns from fairly competent people in the playerbase and make changes based on that. (For example, the inventory system in WoW uses "bags" like Guild Wars...but you can't usually just buy them. A certain race had certain quest rewards which very quickly rewarded them with bag(s), giving an unfair and unwarranted advantage over the others. So, Blizzard compensated by adding bags to the loot tables of common monsters.) And you know, they actually add things to the game that "everyone" can enjoy right away without paying up. The only significant free content that Guild Wars has EVER been given was Sorrow's Furnace, and that was years ago. The Menagerie is a feature, not content. Thusly, even though one (eventually) ends up paying more for World of Warcraft, your money is actually being put to good use, and I'd dare to say you get as much if not more "bang for the buck" from Blizzard. The best part is that the servers are not shit, because Blizzard actually takes care of them. WoW goes down for scheduled maintenance every Tuesday afternoon or so. I'd gladly give up one day (a school/work day, at that!) of any game to have it running flawlessly the other six. Felix, don't lie like a rug. I know you would never do that...or you wouldn't last, in any case. RH, I don't have anything against old games (hell, I play text-based adventures still!), but I'm just not interested in Ultima. (Oblivion on the other hand, is rather fun...but...I don't have any friends who play.) Yes, I saw your "recruiting" ad for it when you posted a long time ago. And you know, truth be told, I do not think I would enjoy your company nor you mine if you are at all similar in-game as you are on the wiki. Dragons are overrated cliches anyway. But thank you for the offer. Entropy (C) 04:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I love grindfests. I might play Aion. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aion looks like a hybrid of WoW and Guild Wars, both in terms of graphics and in mechanics/"style". But it also costs exactly as much as WoW, without any discount package plans (well, not yet anyway). Hmm.....a new game that I don't have any clue whether I'd like, and don't know anyone who will definitely play it; or an older game which I know I thoroughly enjoy, and which I already know several players. That $15/month isn't chump change when you're unemployed and paying off school too. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 05:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks like you really mean it this time. I tend to stay away from personal matters on the wiki (including arguments and drama), but I guess I better say goodbye before I lose my chance to. So... goodbye Entropy, I never even got a chance to AB with you D: --Macros 06:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is the map still Grenz? D: We wouldn't be missing much anyway -.- Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Aion looks like it's trying to way too hard to be a proverbial WoW-clone. The obvious differences of no PvE servers and more grinding aren't exactly points in its favor.  People say flying is a big deal, but no one I've asked could give any reasons as to why.  I once started a thread on a forum with a number of Aion fans asking what the point of the game is, and why someone would play Aion instead of some other game.  Mostly I got a bunch of vague drivel like, "It tries to take the best features from previous games and combine them into a single game."  Of course, nearly every game ever made tries to do that to a large degree.  Apart from being published by NCsoft, I don't see any similarities between Aion and Guild Wars apart from things common to most of the genre.
 * As for WoW, there are some legitimate reasons to like the game. It's great for players who have lots of free time and no skill and thus want only the amount of free time to matter.  (Actually, lots of MMORPGs try to do that, but WoW is better at it than most.)  But you're citing Blizzard's servers as a point in WoW's favor?  Seriously?  Servers that, at any moment could (and often do) completely lock up for mintues at a time and then crash entirely?  Servers that can't simply be rebooted, but take Blizzard an hour to acknowledge that there is a problem and then several more to bring the servers back online--and not necessarily in proper working order when it finally does happen?  Servers that have persistent instability issues for months on end?  WoW's servers are far worse than those of any other game I've ever seen except for Chain of Command, which was made by a company that went out of business at the turn of the millennium, in part because their servers were so horrible.  Citing server stability as a point in WoW's favor is like saying you like Maple Story because it doesn't make you grind for levels, or Vanguard for its low system requirements.
 * WoW does have a lot of content, but it's important to remember that at any given time, the overwhelming majority of it is inaccessible to you. If you're level 45, you could technically go kill mobs in a level 20 zone, or go get slaughtered by mobs in a level 60 zone, but there are only a handful of places that you can reasonably go.  Once you hit the level cap, it's still the same situation, but the reasons for this merely change from level to gear.  Furthermore, a lot of the content isn't merely unavailable right this moment, but never will be available.  Good luck trying to convince 39 other level 60 players to go raid Molten Core rather than moving on to higher levels.  Realistically, a character created today will never get to play anything outside of Wrath of the Lich King with anything remotely resembling the original experience.  Quizzical 06:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I'm pretty sure you've just been describing ANet since the April update and their insistence on blaming crappy performance on people's ISPs.
 * I don't care what level or gear restrictions there are, not least of which because I won't be hitting those for a looooooooooooooong time. At any given point in time, from my perspective, a WoW character has access to infinitely more content than a level 20 UAX Guild Wars account with enough slots for every profession and some left over for PvP. As someone from GWW once said, "I have often been so bored with Guild Wars that I have stopped playing and simply sat down and stared at a wall."
 * I don't mind "grind" if it is in even the slightest way fun or meaningful. I've gone out of my way to farm "skill usage points" and maximize every tech tree in games with that kind of structure. At some times I was literally prolonging a battle for hours and hours, pressing the same commands over and over again, for no other reason than farming skill points. And you know, in the end, I was proud of my accomplishment.
 * Some players spend all day in WoW just fishing. They may not even be grinding for their fishing skill, they just enjoy it. In Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time, they had fishing holes. Do you know how long I spent there? Not hours. Not days. Weeks. Just fishing. It may have been the same repetitive activity over and over again, but I enjoyed it so much that I didn't mind. At pretty much any level in WoW, you can do stuff like that.
 * There are these things called "friends". I don't know if you "puggged" and/or played WoW solo... but, suffice it to say that I know some people who could probably be convinced to help me out at any stage of the game. And if they couldn't, they know people who could. I honestly don't see it being a problem, after coming from the rather dismal position of Guild Wars PUGs. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Has Guild Wars gone completely kaput so that you couldn't even log on for hours at a time since the April update? That's a regular occurrence in WoW.  That isn't merely intermittent lag spikes or laggy enough to be unplayable--though both of those afflict WoW more than Guild Wars.  I guess you could argue that if one WoW server is down, you can go play on another--though you'll have to start a brand new character for it.  Don't look at the official list of which servers are up and down as a guide to the frequency of this, as if a server crashes and comes back up an hour later, the official list will probably show it as having been up continuously that whole time.
 * I think the comparison you're making on amount of content is the amount of content that you personally haven't done yet. That is certainly an important consideration, and a reason why someone will wish to play game A rather than game B at a given time even if he believes that game B is, on the whole, superior to game A.  It isn't really the right measure for abstractly talking about how much content a game has, though.
 * I did some solo content in WoW and a lot of pugging. Grouping with guildies generally isn't viable because there won't be enough of them on at reasonable level/gear and interested in doing what you want.  Some guilds will try to make a point of grouping together, and have a level 50 group with a level 20, but WoW game mechanics make it so that being more than a few levels below mobs makes you useless, and more than a few levels above them makes it trivial.  A few levels makes a much bigger difference in WoW than in Guild Wars, which is why even the highest raid bosses are never more than 3 levels above the level cap.  I guess some would argue that grouping with guildies is viable if you schedule your lives around the game to be able to group (or raid) together, but I consider any "content" that requires scheduling your life around a computer game to not be viable.  Quizzical 08:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Has Guild Wars gone completely kaput so that you couldn't even log on for hours at a time since the April update?" For all intents and purposes, dear Quizzical, I'd give an emphatic yes. I know that you are asking from a broad perspective of all Guild Wars players, but I really don't care if other people can play the game when I cannot. I will admit that I haven't played WoW for three years like Guild Wars, so I cannot really compare the two yet. But from what little testing I have done, I get absolutely no problems with WoW whatsoever. And you know, at the time I was running on under 1 gb of free hard drive space. :]
 * I fully intend to have characters on multiple servers - two at the very least, quite likely more. It's in my nature to "try one of every class", and while that would take *a lot* of playing to try out in WoW, I will at the least have Alliance and Horde characters...which of course means that I'll be on at least two different servers. (I won't be touching PvP for quite a bit of time, probably, but if not, well, that's another server.)
 * It is my firm belief that now, World of Warcraft is, on the whole, superior to Guild Wars. This did not always use to be the case. If you want to judge content in absolute terms - of what is "actually playable" in today's environment - I will still contend that WoW has Guild Wars beat. Dungeons and secondary quests really are not content except for a select few which might be fun to play through like once and/or have some insanely expensive reward item...because they are by and large simply pointless and terribly boring. You can say that many Raids are "unplayable" due to fragmentation of the player base, but I would contend they still far surpass the average Dungeon in terms of content quality. Besides, do you ever see anyone PUGging for...oh, I don't know...Crystal Method? Being able to do stuff with Heroes (requires purchase of Nightfall!) and henchmen is fun for a while, like maybe until you beat all the normal PvE storylines. But after that...it really honestly is self-defeating. The social aspects of a team game go such a long way to make up for shortcomings. I used to say that henchmen were like the best thing about Guild Wars, and they did in fact push me "over the fence" to originally buying Guild Wars instead of other games like WoW. But now, three years later? I think they have helped kill the game for me...As for PvP content, Guild Wars used to be way superior in that regard. But that's been largely killed off for any number of reasons...ANet is slowly fixing the skill balance issues and gay shit like heroes in HA and GvG, but in all likelihood they will never be able to attract back enough good PvP players to make the PvP scene lively again. (If you don't have Koreans beating your PvP, it's not very good.) So despite its many shortcomings, I'd have to say that WoW's PvP has finally overcome the number one strong point of Guild Wars.
 * So making plans for gaming is "scheduling your life around a computer game"? Hmmmph. Before everyone deserted us, I was in a PvP guild where we did GvG every night at 8:00 PST; or if we only had like four, we did TA or AB. I don't mind that at all. I think it's okay that there are certain things (in both games!) that require some amount of prior commitment if you want to do them. I mean, maybe things would be different if I had ever been in a sizable guild/alliance, so that you can just get on and "PUG GvG/HA". But that's pretty unrealistic at this late age of the game, unless you're in one of those, uh, "professional" guilds...the ones always advertising in Spamadan... >.> Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless you had to spend weeks fishing in those Zelda games to move on to later, that wasn't grinding. Grinding is when you absolutely must do something extremely repetitive in order to move on.  WoW doesn't have grinding until you hit the level cap, at which point it abruptly becomes a very different game.  Aion apparently takes long enough to get to the level cap that powerleveling services don't yet post prices of how much they'll charge to get you there.  Quizzical 08:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You have a much stricter definition of "grind" than I do. I tend to agree with something along these lines: "Grinding is a term used ... to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game." Grind doesn't have to relate to progressing in the "normal" storyline; it's just especially acute/bad when so. There is no doubt at all that the process of fishing for weeks was repetitive. The features I was going for? 100% completion and beating the fishing records. Hell. There's a minigame that you have to play before you get access to the final fishing lure. You know that board game where you have a flat wooden plane with holes in it, and you can tilt it on either the X or Y axis, and the goal is to move this marble from the start of the "maze" to the end without it dropping into a hole? Yeah, it's that. But you control it with the Wiimote. By subtle tilts of the wrist. Oh, and it's timed. And each play costs 5 Rupees. There are like 30 different puzzles to play through, if I remember correctly. I spent well over 1,000 Rupees (or whatever the max money was for Twilight Princess) to finish that. More grind... Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "I do not think I would enjoy your company nor you mine if you are at all similar in-game as you are on the wiki." That's why there's more people than just me on Demise.  Also, I'm taken a bit aback.  I'm almost offended.  [edit]Care to elaborate?  I'm...intrigued.[/edit]  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 16:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just not that fond of you here on wiki. So if you behaved the same way in-game I probably wouldn't want to game with you. It would be like those times I played with Warwick. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think WoW has a mentoring system (like there is in place in EQ2). I've heard that the high-end raiding is a totally different game to the PvE at the start. I havn't had lag spikes in GW, ut I can tell you from my EQ experence that a game based on different servers is annoying if you have any friends who want to play, (say you're playing on permafrost, you tell your friend about the game, and they join everfrost, not knowing about servers, then one of you has to change servers, with a new character.

WoW is easy to solo (you can go through the whole leveling curve withought joining a group). It's a pity there isn't a mentoring system, otherwise you can still be challanged by low-level areas at higher levels. Also, back when I was playing GW regularly, I spent more time speaking to Warwick via guild chat than actually playing the game, I got into a zone and was completely uninspired to do anything, I could have done loads of things, but I'd rather have logged off. When that happened, I looked around for my options. Good luck + have fun! <font color="Black">Talk  17:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The servers thing doesn't bother me. It means that a lot of very popular names are often available if you just pick a different server (in addition to being able to use non-standard characters like an A with an umlat or whatever). If you actually bother to do your homework and find out what servers friends play on, then that's not an issue either.
 * WoW is designed to be played solo. In the normal course of the PvE you never once have to group for anything. I'm fully aware of that. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry to see you leaving, and so soon after I got back - however I can say I do agree with you that GWs is a dying game, and has been ever since the release of GW:EN and ANet has been less than caring with provision of new content and more actual, fun and meaningful reasons to play rather than just getting another useless time-wasting title. I come back after about one year to see the 4th year anniversary additions which are nothing much more than ploys to extract money from the existing playerbase without providing any new, meaningful content unlike previous real campaigns. This wonderfully 'delightful' way of going about business doesn't inspire me to buy GW2 - seems like we only get exceptional boredom to tide us over until the release of GW2 and obligatory grind in the form of ZQuests for bags which should really have been sold at merchants. However, I do find that the game mechanics and level of skill required to progress through higher level content nice and refreshing in comparison to the miscellaneous other grindy MMOs I've played. I'm not surprised that you're experiencing lag problems but I haven't a clue why yours are so severe - I've seen my guildmates in the US have massive lag issues while I experience none (Australia here) yet I see nobody else getting lag issues sometimes when I infrequently 007, so there may be some truth to ANet saying the lag issue is to do with your ISP. I see also that the community here has been slowly atrophying - sometimes I see out of date content that should have been corrected but isn't. Jennalee 18:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * While I agree that the cost of a Heavy Equipment Pack is pretty disproportionate (compared to three Large bags), I'm probably one of the few people who don't actually care that it costs 15 gold zoins. "I'll get it when I get it", it's hardly an essential thing that I absolutely had to have. And they are not customized so I could move them around as needed. Besides that, I really enjoy Alliance Battles...I play them for the fun of playing, and so even though they can get pretty repetitive (map has been on Grenz for like months) I still have fun. Turning in full Alliance Battle zests from all my chars nets 175 * 12 = 2100 copper = 42 silver = 4.2 gold, which is more or less a third of the way there when added to miscellaneous other coins. Even without an AB weekend, that's a pretty realistic goal for me to attain in a week's time. So I *would* have had at least one bag by now if I could even PvP at all.
 * The mass lag seems to be an American-based issue mostly; people from other parts of the world are getting it sometimes, but not in the same epidemic way. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If youre bored of all new things like pve skills, go to presearing like I did. A place with no farmers Meraida 06:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's quite a lot of Charr and Dye farmers in pre (and a pig farmer!). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  11:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The point is that though the bags aren't well and truly necessary, they do confer a significant advantage to those who have them. However, to get that advantage requires a lot of personal grind of some kind or another - I thought that went against the whole ethos that GWs was originally based on. Jennalee 17:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's perfectly true. But things have been going away from that ethos for awhile, or at least I think so. Thus the HEP doesn't stand out as much to me as for you, I suppose.
 * Also, although I am very fond of Pre-Searing, you can't play there forever as that's not really a game unto itself...there are no guilds, no alliance, and usually not even friends to play with (max party size 2 sucks/how many people have a pre/who plays Prophecies anyways?). So after a point you have just a few options. You could farm stuff for Nick, but that's pretty boring and grindy. You could go for a perma-pre, but that actually involves mostly idling rather than playing. And is also horribly grindy. Finally, I guess you could just...explore? Help people out? Farm Charr Bags? That's fine for awhile, but once you've been to every corner of Pre it gets kind of old, I think. It is just such a small area. I mean, I've gone on an expedition to clear out the whole Catacombs. That was fun and interesting. But I wouldn't do that again and again...I need at least a little variety to confine myself to one area. (Such as Sorrow's Furnace and Grenth's Footprint. Man, that place kicks ass.) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's what set GWs apart from most other games, to lose it but to offer inferior content for grinding on is depressing. Jennalee 07:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

(ri )Entropy, this wiki loses something important if you leave. I'm not saying that I'll miss you. But it saddens me to see a person that played such a big role in, on and around this wiki leave. Thank you for your years of service. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC) Also I'm using D-Shot on epic walls of text!
 * I appreciate it, Arnout. I'm a bit sorry I never got to know you (and, for that matter, most of the "newer generation" of GuildWikians better. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Lemme guess, you're more of a srs bzns player, aren't you? Personally, I screw around, I yell random things in pitched battle, in short, I treat the game like what it is, a game.  I, too, have played for over 3 years, and I use my seniority as an excuse to act like an idiot sometimes.  Then again, I probably have a stronger sense of personal honor than most anyone who plays PvP (I mostly do AB), I will never leave the battle no matter how bad it is, I never resign, and I never give up.  In summation, I know what I'm doing (at least half the time), and I have fun/act like a moron while doing it.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 15:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hah! I'm quite srs bsns when I'm playing alone (or with most PUGs...you never know whether PUGs appreciate fun or not...or if they understand English >.>), but whenever I am with friends, guildies, alliance mates, or other people I reasonably trust I'm quite like you. While I almost never do anything to jeopardize the success of the mission and I generally plan pretty srs, I mess around a lot too. I often find myself making mistakes in combat because I'm too busy typing "Cool story bro" whenever Togo opens his mouth, or whatever.
 * Honor? I like honorable players. And not the dF or Apex honor kind. Half the reason I haven't been in PvP was because I'd refuse to leave a battle no matter how bad I was rubberbanding etc. which, while brave and honorable, brought the team down/gave me "dishonor" hex/incited rage in my fellow players. I resign as a joke sometimes (e.g. we're winning by a 400+ margin on Ancestral), and even when it's reversed and a Crippling Victory is imminent, I'll keep fighting as my teammates rage. Meh, I dunno. Maybe I would like playing with you. I guess we'll not find out now, though. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I already wrote you a goodby once. Go look it up in your archives.

And saying H&H spoiled the social game while at the same time dissing the update that re-populated PvE outposts (ok, mostly only two each day, but the effect lasts slightly longer for each) strikes me as ... incongruous. -- ◄mendel► 18:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The update re-populated PvE outposts in the same way that double X weekends populate other places. Playing content for the sake of material rewards rather than the content itself is not success in my book. To put it another way....No one is doing bounties/missions because they need them to progress through the storyline or they feel like being helpful or they think they are fun. I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people are just there for the zoins and by extention the Equipment Packs. It's largely the same for PvP. You get a bunch of PvE shitters flooding the arenas because they want to farm zoins. They aren't interested in learning how to play PvP, they probably don't even enjoy it at all. But damn, it gives way more awesome rewards than PvE. (Latest update fixed this disparity somewhat, but still - Hero Baddles anyone?) Most importantly, these people are not fun to play with. They are very focused on the drive of zoins. I can think of many accounts I've heard of since the system first came out...of people who did "Z Pugs" and found them dissatisfying because the social aspect was just gone. It's like speed clear runs. (And, unlike UWSC or whatever, a good deal of zoin farmers are pretty incompetent as well!) tl;dr Basically, the update just made it so that every mission/outpost/arena turns into Doomlore Shrine once in a while. Yes, it gets people to "critical mass" in those areas and helps prevent fragmentation. No, it does not actually solve the problem.
 * H/H were one aspect that killed the social game for me, but I would say that was largely my own fault for becoming dependant on them. They are a very good concept in and of themselves and I wish more games had something similar. I also fail to see how H/H relates to the April update. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:35, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, so I downloaded the WoW tiral, and from what I've seen in it, I don't know for the life of me why this game is so popular. I started the game chose a character, waited for the download of the stuff, and then started playing. The first NPC I came accross told me to kill 10 koblods (which, on it's own, is 2 RPG cliche's rolled up into 1). There was no storyline given, nothing to tell me why I was there, I just was told to kill 10 koblods. I just got bored, kill x quests are standard in all sorts of games, why is WoW the leader, the graphics were dull and the combat was uninspiring. In all RPGs I've played, it starts off giving you a reason to want to play, you don't just dump a character near an NPC, and expect them to kill 10 kobolds, then go and do other stuff (I never completed the quest, I got bored after a couple of kills, not the point).
 * Anyway, I gave it a good runthough, but nothing inspired me to keep playing. What is it that you saw in WoW as fun, new original etc, and the features that made you want to play. What I see is a run-of-the-mill MMO, with little to no story to keep me intrested. When I started GW, it was the story that got me hooked, same with morrowind, oblivion, and any other RPG I care to name. I tried to enjoy it, but I found nothing to enjoy. [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  21:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is exactly the same impression I got from it. I mean, I could wander around like a dumbass all I wanted (which was 99% of what I did).  Sure, I got a handful of XP when I wandered somewhere new...but it was almost the same shit over and over again; green hills, deep forests, and whatnot with a bunch of monsters just kinda thrown around the place.  Sure, you may not get anything new in Ultima Online when you find something, but at lest there's some variation in it's landscapes, all of which can be accessed from the get-go if you just want to.  Pretty much the same thing with Guild Wars, or at least Prophecies.  In Britannia, you got deserts, tundra, jungles; pretty much every kind of climate is represented, even volcanic.  Also, the critters are placed in a somewhat logical manner; you got your orcs and bandits in the forests; slimes, lizardmen, and other reptiles in the swamps; dragons in mountainous areas, caves, and volcanic areas; daemons in unholy places; undead in graveyards; and scorpions, sphinxes, and mummies in the desert.  UO all-around makes more sense to me.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 22:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And you think Guild Wars has a fun and engaging storyline? You're funny. (Prophecies excepted, of course.) The entire essence of Factions, GotN, and to a lesser extent Nightfall is running around like an idiot doing pointless repetitive tasks for random NPCs that don't explain anything to you. (I know I'm biased. Been discussed before.)
 * I didn't have any problem with the first quest. I considered it a learning experience. While fighting those Kobolds, I learned the many differences between Guild Wars combat and WoW combat. (What do you mean, I actually have to face the enemy?) This was important practice which I repeated throughout the trial; it's hard to break old habits, and truth be told, I've never played another "MMORPG" type game anyway, so I had nothing to "fall back" to. It was all quite novel to me, and I even found it refreshing in some ways. Example: I can have ranged damage and melee damage on the same character! Being pretty familiar with the concept of "pulling", I was pretty surprised the first time I actually killed something with throwing knives. (I played Rogue. Most fun class for a beginner imo.)
 * I have a much higher tolerance for crappy introductions than you do, RT. And I'll admit that WoW's isn't particularly motivating. I've played a number of games where anywhere from the first five minutes to the first few days are filled with boring bullshit that I don't care about. :) (I hate Factions!) But I'm one of those people who generally has hope that a game will get better, so I don't really get put off until much later on (say, after the first dungeon or something) when it's clear that the entire game will be just as bad. If I'm really desperate to find something to redeem a game by, I'll cheat and read spoiler-filled walkthroughs etc. to see if I can find any reason at all to keep going...Either way, the majority of such sleeper games have in fact turned out to be quite good...and some rank among my favorite games of all time. CIMA: The Enemy, for example. (I also find it amusing that the story of Morrowind convinced you to play. Man, that has got to be the most boring and frustrating game I have ever played, period, introduction or not. Maybe not all games in the series are equal, but still...)
 * What's so great about Guild Wars' graphics? I'm quite serious, and you might recall that I even consider Guild Wars to be quite pretty game. I would play with the maximal graphics settings before I got this stupid laptop which freaks out if I do that more than like 5 minutes. I got used to WoW's graphics pretty quickly. Yes, it looks "different". You can call it any number of things you want: cartoony, old, substandard, whatever. But you know, I honestly don't care. I still play text-based games and Game Boy Color (or even black-and-white!) stuff. On the overall scale of what makes or breaks a game, graphics is a pretty lowly criterion for me. I'd much rather have a good game that entertains me, and I'll forgive it not looking the nicest, than a beautifully rendered game that just makes me cry tears of boredom. (That would be Guild Wars.) I mean, Golden Sun has got to be one of my favorite games of all time, and that had about as low a graphics investment you can get and still get away with it. (I know, there are different "styles" of graphics, but that only excuses so much.)
 * What do I see in WoW that motivates me to play? For a large part, I see differences from Guild Wars PvE - things that make the game not so stupid, boring, and pointless that I would turn the game off and sit and stare at a wall instead. I see content that doesn't have to be invented by the player (e.g. "Let's see if I can finish EotN without wearing any armor!" or "I'm determined to earn a glad point using echo mending!") and actually has some rewards to it, so if you don't want to follow the normal storyline you can go along quite happily doing whatever you please...and you'll still generally make some progress. (There is a heavy emphasis on quests for exp in WoW, so that's not entirely true later on, but still. Compare that to secondary quests in Guild Wars, which 99% of the time confer no actual or meaningful benefit for the amount of effort involved. So you're going to give me 5,000 exp even though I'm already level 20 UAX? And maybe 1 platinum? After I just slew 9001 Harpies? Hilarious! Don't get me wrong, some of the secondary quests are actually pretty fun or challenging and so they are worth doing for their own sake. But many many more are not. If EotN did anything right, it was that it sort of returned to the Prophecies model of enticing you to do optional stuff in order to earn skills. I mean, who else would bother with killing the Glacial Griffon otherwise? :D)
 * I see a much better atmosphere or ambience, if you will. I understand that Guild Wars' instancing is designed with the casual player in mind etc. and I'm not saying it was the "wrong" way to do things; both ways of structuring a world have their pros and cons. But after so much of unique instances (especially with H/H), the "open world" of WoW is quite a welcome change for me. Even despite the world being split into servers. I like gaming with people, even if I'm not directly playing with them in a party or whatever. I've come to the conclusion that playing any sort of MMO-ish game by yourself, solely to beat its content, is a sure way to grow tired of it. It's just not the same as on a console or whatever, where both playstyles are pretty equally viable. (I love playing Brawl with real people, but I'm still pretty content to practice on my own.)
 * I see an in-game auction system that, quite frankly, kicks ass. Yes, it is somewhat determined by the particular server, but so is Guild Wars selling - you don't go to Maguuma Stade Japanese District 1 to sell stuff, you go to AD1 LA or such. A good deal of my frustrations with Guild Wars in the past have centered around economic issues such as how much of a hassle it is to sell anything which isn't always instantly on demand - that is, there may be plenty of people who could use an Icy Sword Hilt all over the world. But good luck finding them in Spamadan. You've got to outshout all the other traders who want to sell immediately viable stuff like black dye, zkeys, elite tomes, cons, blah blah. The Party Search feature is seriously not adequate for that, either. So eventually I've come to the state I am now, where I've all but given up on ever selling anything that's not instantly buyable...Maybe if Guru etc. weren't such a hassle to use that would be different, but let's be honest: you should not have to use a 3rd party site to sell stuff effectively within a game. And I just love to sell stuff. For example, in my text-based game, I'll find some item which I know is either immediately valuable or might be of interest to a newbie. So I'll put it up for sale on the sales channel (small game population = ok to have just a single simple channel for sales), selling for the minimum price that will net me a profit compared to a merchant. It's an implicit auction, so people will bid for awhile, and then I decide a winner...the item it sold, I make money, over and done with. Simple, effective, and fun. Even more fun is when I get those esoteric items which I'm not quite sure if people will want. I put those in my "merchant booth". People will pass by and check out my merchandise, and they can buy it even when I'm not actually logged in to the game - the funds transfer to the equivalent of one's "Xunlai Chest" automatically. I love that. So whenever I pick up something which could be useful, I save it away and put it in my booth. I liked to brag that I had one of the most "popular" booths because I moved a pretty good quantity of merchandise compared to most others that I saw...it was something that kept me playing. In Guild Wars, you can't do that. There are always newbies who would appreciate a max weapon or a superior salvage kit or whatever, but unless you really get out there and shove it in their faces - going to Shing Jea Monastary AD1 - you'll never be able to help those folks. And let's be honest, dealing with people in outposts like that - newbie or not - generally sucks. It's just not pleasant. Nor is it efficient or profitable. The WoW auction system more or less lets me replicate my merchant booth thing, and I really appreciate that. The best part is that because of the extensive crafting system(s), almost *anyone* at any level in any point of the game can gather useful things to sell such as raw materials. Level 80 players buying stuff from level 10 players with no ulterior motives...it happens! And I think that's just totally cool.
 * Finally, I see a game which actually has a large enough playerbase around the world to be called "massive".
 * "green hills, deep forests, and whatnot with a bunch of monsters just kinda thrown around the place" Guild Wars tbh, although again I'll make an exception for Prophecies which actually had pretty distinct and realistic "landscapes". And you know, I'd take that sort of "bad" environment over cardboard boxes or impenetrable gloomy thickets any day. Moreover, realism is pretty far down on my list of criterions on which to judge a game, even below graphics...yeah, I get annoyed when things are too unrealistic that they're just dumb. (For example, you can fire regular old gunpowder guns underwater in WoW...that's stupid. Or how most games have unlimited ammo for ranged weapons. That's stupid too.) But generally I don't really care as long as it's fun. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's really that hard to figure out why WoW is popular. If you pick any web site that deals with a lot of games, you may find WoW reasonably popular there, but one of quite a number of games that is reasonably popular, and not a clear #1.  Rather, WoW's great appeal is to people who have never played online games before.  Look where they advertise.  Most games advertise on gaming web sites.  WoW advertises on television and on web sites completely unrelated to gaming; I've probably seen more WoW ads on political web sites (where most visitors don't play computer games, or at least not more complicated than solitaire) than for all other games added together.
 * WoW lets you level up and get better gear without having to worry about failing because you aren't very good at the game. That's a definite attraction to people who really aren't very good at computer games.  WoW will also run on a lot of computers that most games of its generation or later won't, due to graphics that really aren't that nice.  This is critical because most people with a computer don't have a really nice gaming computer.  Things that may be off-putting to many or most avid gamers can be highly desirable to those who aren't that into gaming--but play WoW and may not even be aware that many other online games exist.  Quizzical 22:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that's better than pretty much not advertising at all, which Guild Wars does. Mr. T doing a voiceover for Prince Rurik? That would be hysterical. And also make the game suck a bit less.
 * I don't really mind if the playerbase/attraction of the game is largely "non-hardcore" gamers who "don't play online games". Goodness knows there are few enough of those in Guild Wars anymore, and of those, plenty are complete jerkwads anyway. My own personal experience says that of the people I consider "nice" or "fun" to play with, the majority of them are just not that good at the game...(I'd usually rather a nice and sociable companion who's not so great at the game, than a veteran who is just a dick and even makes others ragequit. Even if I'm a "veteran".) Plenty of people still play Guild Wars on crappy computers with dial-up...the graphics in that case are sort of self-defeating, because while they will attract someone to the game they also place reality-based limits - hardware/software limits - on your playing ability, which is bullshit.
 * WoW and Guild Wars target pretty different audiences, neither of which is inherently better (well, outside of a discussion about profit models anyway). But I'm tired of the Guild Wars audience. So something new strikes me as a good thing. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Get yourself rushed to max level and do some 15-hour-and-then-some raids; I heard that's the fun part. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  08:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well then, Quizzy, we need to educate these motha fuggahs! [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 17:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Text-based games FTW! Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They are most certainly easier to program, that's for sure. Oh, and by the way...Zork.  That is all.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 23:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I wasn't comparing GW to WoW. I know there's probably either 0% or 100% chance of you coming back.  You just come off as that kind of person.  Granted, 99% of times you said you were leaving, you came back like a week later.  However, back to my original point.  I was comparing Ultima Online to WoW.  I, personally, don't give a shit about graphics, if my game selection wasn't any indication.  Also, realism isn't that high either, but damn, I don't care what you say, ice monsters should not be in a forest.  I played WoW myself...for 8 hours, I played the trial all the way through, and it bored the living hell out of me.  Maybe it's because of their retarded "no trial talking" policy and I missed out on the people, which is a key part of any MMO.  Maybe it was because I'm just too old a gamer to be taken in by a world that looks like it was designed by 12 year-old with Photoshoop and 3DSMax.  I can deal with dated graphics, but this crap is like a bad SD anime, everything is disproportionate.  If I have a human character that is like 6 feet tall, the handrails for the stairs should not come up to his ears.  Dwarves can be stocky without looking like a Tank from Left 4 Dead.  Also, the race-locking of classes is a real bitch; why can't I have a Human Hunter?  What?  Did Humans never learn to use bows because their minds are so tiny?  However, in Ultima Online, you have only two races; Human and Elf unless you're playing a heavily-modded server.  Even then, you can be any "class" you want to be.  I use quotes around the word "class" because Ultima Online doesn't have a class system, or at least not in the sense that most would think.  You can level up any skills you want at any time.  Want to eschew combat and just wander around picking cotton and shearing sheep to make clothes?  You can do it.  Want to go around town and become a Grandmaster Beggar by mooching off NPC's?  You can do it.  Want to steal someone's shit?  You can do it.  All you have to do is work on your skills.  Ya know...like you would have to do in real life.  Also, you get free gold to start with.  Free fucking gold.  Last I checked, WoW didn't do that.  And by the way, Ninjas.  That is all.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 00:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have any idea what you are talking about. Trial accounts these days can use the chat channels and private message systems etc. as normal, as far as I could tell. Or maybe that was just because I was on a RaF trial. Major privileges are major.
 * Guild Wars is incredibly disproportionate in some places. Have you done Augury Rock recently? Those stairs would require smaller characters to jump >.> (Actually, GW in general fails at realistic stairs...)
 * Humans can use guns. I guess that is seen as superior. They might be able to learn to use bows, too...if you bought that skill from a weapon skills trainer. I didn't bother to check, because throwing knives are better. I'd claim that the race-locking is due to balance issues or lore conflicts or something (undead paladin = lolwut), but I'm not knowledgeable enough to give a proper answer. I don't really let it bother me...I mean, who would ever play if not for ?
 * A modern trend in games seems to be developers moving away from "typical" races; or even if they don't, they change them in ways so that they're not really quite what people "expect". WoW Dwarves, for example, or "human-like" races in many Final Fantasy games. The thinking behind that might be that people are bored of the same old stereotypical fantasy races. (Protoss! Zerg! omg) But I dunno. I think as long as "humans look like humans", which they more or less do, it's all gravy. Race statistics reports from many games show that most people play humans or other "safe" races anyway... :p
 * On the one hand, a completely open-development character model allows for maximum flexibility and creativity. (Think Final Fantasy V.) On the other hand, a totally rigid class system guarantees that people will have specialized roles and some guidance in their "levelling up", such that you can't accidentally "ruin" a character with haphazard choices. (Final Fantasy I.) UO would be way on one end of that spectrum; WoW and Guild Wars both fall somewhere in between. While I do enjoy games where one can "be anything, do anything" to some extent, I also tend to find that the time investment to be anything useful is usually quite large...unless you minmax so heavily that you *only* practice one thing over and over. But that's not fun. Consider Final Fantasy II, for instance. The amount of fighting that you had to do to maximize anything except HP - spell levels, weapon mastery, all other stats - was just insane. You couldn't even master a weapon through normal combat during the course of the game, no matter how many foes you fought; eventually, you had to start beating up your own characters because everything else was too low-level. That's just dumb. :< Moreover, you had to spec fairly heavily into anything for it to be useful at all...sure, you could have everyone with all spells at Level 8, 50ish ranges in all stats, 5000 HP, 500 MP, and 8 mastery in all weapons. A well-rounded party. But that would still present some fairly considerable difficulties in beating the game. You more or less ended up either making *everyone* super strong and well-rounded (takes forever), or you specialized characters so they only fulfilled certain roles. Like you'd have one guy who specializes in White Magic, another Black Magic, and the third a physical attacker. The game was easy that way. But! By doing that, the entire development system is self-defeating because you may as well have had fixed "classes" and roles anyway. >.>
 * That may totally not represent what UO is like, though; feel free to correct me. (Side note: whenever I play Pokemon games, I just level up one Pokemon such as the starter, and use them to annihlate all foes. After I'm done with the game I get down to making a so-called "balanced party" which the game always tells you is critical to success. I suppose it's the same basic principle.) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 08:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think UO doesn't nicely compare to any MMO really. It's so sandboxy that it makes just about everything look linear by comparison (I don't know, maybe second life is exempt). This is the sort of game where you can live in the forest making a living by fletching arrows from wild birds, make your own leather armour from tanning, and start to make and furnish a house with your carpentry. It's a wierd comparison to other games because you can choose to do things that are non-combat based. And I don't think armourer counts, even miner is iffy because it basically just ends in armour. I'm talking about a grandmaster fisherman, or better yet, a baker. Just to quickly mention, there's no way to ruin a character because the stat system lets you set the state of a stat and your skills (such as: "this one levels up" "this one is locked" "this one levels down" though in general you only do that when you've accidentally been levelling up something that you don't like (damn you camp-fire-making skill!). -<font color=#555>Ezekiel  <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  09:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly, it's pretty hard to fuck up in UO. Granted, if you get too far into a skill (re: camping), you'll find that it is difficult to siphon those points into another skill, because the more points you have in total, the harder it is to gain in skill.  Even then, it's not impossible to fix a major screw up...unless it's financial.  Even then, it's easy as hell to make money in UO; I personally made 50,000 gold in a few hours by mining ore in Minoc and turning that into easy-to-make armor with my Blacksmith, which I then sold to a NPC Blacksmith.  Also, NPC's give you things called "Bulk Order Deeds," they're basically work orders you can fill for money and special items.  Also, in Demise at least, you can have multiple accounts (in the case of Demise, up to 4 per IP).  Given that each account can have 5 characters, that can allow a single person to have some 20 characters; or allow homies who visit frequently and are interested to have their own account they can use all to themselves, instead of having to mooch a slot or two off of your own accounts.  Also, you have to consider, EA doesn't mind the hundreds of freeshards out there.  Hell, you can even run your own if you just want to.  Can you do that with WoW legally?  Last I checked, the answer to that question was an emphatic "NO" (with extra "we'll sue your fucking ass").  So if you just want to have some fun by running around like an idiot with a Sword of God whacking summoned Balrons, you can do it.  Hell, you can even have a nice little private server where you and your homies can hang out and do random shit.  You can even build your own house, granted you have the available funds.  I love the freedom UO grants you, and if you don't, well...then you're a freedom-hating commie.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 00:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In Soviet Russia, freedom hates you! :)
 * There are plenty of people who play on private WoW servers. Obviously, they're not totally obvious things that you could just Google up, and Blizzard won't be too happy if they find you. But that never stopped anyone. As long as it's possible to run on a private server, someone will do it. Also, insert stale joke here expressing surprise that EA didn't bind the game with DRM shit or something... >.>
 * I suppose it wouldn't hurt to shop around. I'll go do some digging on UO, maybe even try it some. It's not like I have the funds right now for WoW, anyway. :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I might consider joining you if you could find a good server - reminds me so much of Dransik/Ashen Empires since it was effectively a UO clone, which I played for a while and had a lot of fun in. Jennalee 08:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just check my talk page. It's right there.  Everything ya need to get set up on Demise.  Also, if you want to, you can read up on some of the mechanics and shit on UOGuide.  Nice and simple, that's what I love about it.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 00:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I went digging through UOG. I must say, there's quite a bit more depth and breadth to the deceptively simple-looking game than I had suspected. The quests look pretty impressive - actually requiring you to travel around the "world", doing useful and purposeful things for people that I care about even though I haven't even met them. The Royal Council Massacre? Pretty cool quest right there. Intrigue! Mystery! Danger! Totally would motivate me to go complete it right out of the bag.
 * Although...it is a really, really stripped down and simple game. 3D graphics, fancy effects, orgasmic soundtrack? Puh! I suppose that's a bit hypocritical from someone who enjoys text-based games, but still...It gives me bad memories of RuneScape, almost. :\
 * Still, it is 100% free, and it's not like I am motivated enough to seek out other options - it's so easy to use that time playing Metroid or Brawl instead. So I believe I will be availing myself of a trial when I get some free time. ;) (translation: after I beat Metroid Prime II with a 100% clear. should be any day now!) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't call the soundtrack "orgasmic," but it's definitely good. Most assuredly not the slumber-fest that is the GW soundtrack.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 05:57, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I enjoyed the GW soundtrack for the first year or so, when I was still in Prophecies and the music was imo pretty good. It got one into the atmosphere, and each piece was well suited for where it played...especially Pre-Searing and most cutscenes. Then Factions came along and 1) ruined MY FAVORITE character login screen/music (I will NEVER forgive ANet for that, let alone believe their BS about "oh its rly hard to change the login screen music"), 2) made me turn off the music or listen to something else unless I was in Kaineng City or the Jade Sea, and 3) introduced cutscenes and a storyline that are so horrible I cringe to listen to most of them anyway. When Nightfall came out, I was at first somewhat relieved because the character select screen was decent again, with a bold and exciting piece. And on Istan (couldn't get to Kourna in the preview weekend), the music was fairly decent. But, I soon found out about the "fight" music which played most times I wanted to kill anything. Not only did most of those pieces piss me off, they often broke my concentration completely with the game, so it was actually quite detrimental to my experience. :( Later on when I played through the actual game, I found that most of the rest of Nightfall had terrible music...only Istan and Vabbi were pleasant. Kourna, The Desolation, and The Realm of Torment seem especially designed to put one to sleep. -_- I mean, they are not even like the Ring of Fire Islands music, which is malevolent, eerie, vaguely frightening, and just generally does a great job of characterizing the place as dangerous. On the other hand, cutscenes actually became bearable again, even if they storyline was bleh, so I made it a point to watch each one at least once. I actually got a laugh from a few of them.
 * Then, there is Grind of the North, which as you might anticipate I don't enjoy at all for soundtrack purposes. Not only does it have the irritating "fight" music of Nightfall, a boring character select screen, and just very meh music overall (they even recycled some old tracks, which disappointed me a lot) - but they had to make it more garish, more obtrusive, more distracting. Those "Kill !" messages did not help either, although it is nice to see when Molotov Rocktail is about to pwn you and you weren't paying attention. I find GotN to be purposely designed to distract you from actually playing the game. >.> I went to great pains to try and enjoy the music, since this was supposed to be the final frontier...but in the end I find that it's always ruined by the obnoxious fight music (so I avoid fighting mobs, which is a pain), and I only really realy like the music for the Charr Homeland. The Asura tracks are okay, but since so much of the rest of those areas is a pain it really mars the enjoyment. Oh yeah, and the cutscenes pulled a stupid again. Could ANet possibly have made Gwen any more annoying? :< Gadd, Vekk, Olaf, the other "strange in the head" characters were amusing for awhile, but they are really just one-offers...flat and one-dimensional characters that get shallow laughs.
 * Finally, music for other content - in PvP and "difficult" PvE like "elite" missions, I almost always have the music and other sounds on, since it can play a critical tactical role. Fighting an AB match on Saltspay Beach, for instance, and also just learning to identify skills by their sounds. The music for all of the Bonus Missions in the BMP was excellent. And, of course, Sorrow's Furnace - my favorite place in Guild Wars of all time, other than Pre-Searing. The music contributes greatly to my appreciation of the place. :)
 * So that's why I listen to Through the Fire and Flames, StarCraft music, Metal Gear Solid soundtrack (great for the BMP missions, btw), etc. when playing Guild Wars. >.> Perhaps the last nail in the coffin was when I acquired more or less the entire Guild Wars soundtrack - so even if I ever did want to listen to Guild Wars music, I could do it without playing the corresponding zzz game. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 17:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Eeh, I never got into the music. Just wasn't that driving, ya know?  Don't get me wrong, a few parts were good, but not anywhere near Ultima Online (or it's predecessors, the Ultima series).  UO's soundtrack is much more engaging, more powerful, and more...motivating, I suppose.  The best example of this would have to be Stones, pretty much the theme song for the entire Ultima series.  Probably the one game song I would say I grew up with, ever since I played Ultima IV when I was like...4 years-old.  Fifteen years, and it's still one of my most favorite songs in the world.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 19:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... that is not too bad! (YouTube crapification factor accounted for, ofc.) So the music in UO is all like that? Probably good enough to keep me listening to it, instead of my other music... ;) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded to RapidShare. All of the music as of Mondain's Legacy.  All in one convenient zip, roughly 75megs in size.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 22:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * o.O Excuse the bad pun, but the music strikes a chord with me. UO would seem to be one of those games "from another time and age". I'm most definitely committed to trying it out for myself now. (A lot of the pieces seemed to be cut short - was that intentional?) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

(ri, cuz I'm on a 1024x768 screen ATM) Well, the songs are meant to be looped; I basically just tore em from the music folder on my UO installation, shoved em into a max-compression zip, uploaded em, and called it a day. I'm lazy, I know. rede | beiträge 08:15, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Favicon
It's not just us. All Wikia wikis have the same favicon atm. --Macros 06:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if that makes me feel better that other people are also suffering, or more angry that it really is intentional. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny enough, ours was working for me until you messed with the file, and now it's broken. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well excuuuuse me, Princess.
 * I think I'll just leave it alone and let someone else deal with it. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

...Oh. I get it now.

IT'S A JAVASCRIPT THING. Or in any case, something that we can not fix. You can upload ANYTHING to the favicon, and if you check the most recent revision, it will ALWAYS be the Wicked Wikia W.

I shall thus leave this in more capable hands. I activate Righteous Wrath! Entropy (C) 07:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I still have the GuildWiki favicon, not going to ctrl+f5. [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  17:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just noticed that it seems to be OK for me now again. Whatever. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 06:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Hooray for Entropy
TEF: Hello, must you be going? You cannot stay, you came to say, you must be going? I'm glad you came. Erm, just the same must you be going?

GWikians: For our sake you must stay. If you should go away, You'd spoil this wiki we are writing.

Entropy: I'll stay a week or two, I'll stay the summer thru, But I am telling you, I must be kiting.

GWikians: Before you go, Will you oblige us, And tell us of your deeds so glowing?

Entropy: I'll do anything you say, In fact I'll even stay! ... But I must be going. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 09:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC) (with apologies to Groucho Marx)
 * Poem tagged for better WYSIWYG. And I even I don't know the full reasons. -- ◄mendel► 09:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My poem skills are rusty. I don't understand what the question is (is there a question?). Maybe you could reform it into a rap? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not an interrogative &mdash; it's an homage to you (courtesy of Groucho Marx). (It's a slight rewrite of Hooray For Captain Spaulding, one of the songs from, Animal Crackers.) [frown] I guess it loses a lot in the translation if one is not a Marx Bros fan. [/frown] With luck, you might find the appropriate level of silliness if you watch the video (or, better yet, the movie). (Without luck, it will just remain a long, arcane WoT on your list of so-long/farewells.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The difference between GuildWiki and Guild Wars Wiki
Entropy says goodbye on GWW: they respond with dozens of dramatic farewells and "we understand."

Entropy says goodbye on GWiki: we respond with dozens of walls o' text and "neeeo escape!" 12:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I did the dramatic farewell and the "I understand" the last 2 or 3 times. -- ◄mendel► 14:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

You
are awfully active for someone who has left the wiki. -- Mini Me ↔  Talk  12:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought she left GW, not wiki (yet). RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 14:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There are serious business discussions still going on. I don't actually have the funds for WoW right now, and this potentially great new game is being introduced to me in its stead. I have, indeed, passed out of Guild Wars itself and GWW, though. No one there had anything to say to keep me long after the "announcement" ;)
 * Besides, being 90% restricted to your own talkpage barely constitutes "activity" by any serious metrics. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What potentially great new game? -- Mini Me ↔  Talk  15:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 16:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ultima Online is my bet (read the WoT section above). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ Also, I heard Fiesta Online is fun. SUPPORTIVE PALADIN! >.> Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 05:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I enjoyed the first 9 levels wayyyy more in Guild Wars (though you do level faster in than in GW, I got my first set of "collector armor" in Fiesta only now). So far the quests were all "kill me 10 of these" under some flimsy pretense (can't discern any storyline yet), the interface is aggravating me almost as much as a Microsoft app (when you are dragging and dropping a square onto a grid, don't try to align the square, but rather point the upper left corner into the center of the place where you want it to go; you can buy duplicates of skills and get skill quest rewards you can really do nothing with except merch them again at 1/5 their value; I haven't got the hang of the chat system yet; a long while I couldn't talk to NPCs because I couldn't be arsed to click on myself and lose the exclamation mark over my head, and the game didn't tell me anything; the list goes on), and already I can see where the game is crappy on purpose (character design options) so you have to go buy stuff from the in-game store to make it slightly less crappy. If you do decide to try it out, get the EU-english client so you can play with everyone else on #gwiki. It might actually be fun with teamspeak and a party despite the game, but I dunno (yet?). I'm going to give it another whirl to level more, will report later. -- ◄mendel► 07:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ...I was being totally sarcastic, I didn't think anyone actually played it D: It's a terrible game compared to GW, WoW, UO, probably even RuneScape...although, at least they advertise. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 17:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We had a TV ad for RuneScape D: It was horrifying seeing RS on a TV. Too few pixels. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What's this Aion game I keep hearing about in alliance chat? --Macros 01:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Srs Viper? o.O *goes to look for it*
 * Macros, this is Aion. The simple summary is that it's like WoW but with better graphics. You could ask this guy about it; he got to play the beta. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I shit you not. . Seeing that one made me realise there's actually 2; The one linked, and another one I cannot find that says you can now play PixelScape in HD or some random claim like that. Also, in Aion you have aerial combat, iirc, which sounds kinda nice. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  09:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Sysop flag removed
I have told the wiki software to no longer consider you an sysop, in accordance with your request that you have now affirmed via email. Of course you are an admin for life, so when you want your powers back, just contact any bureaucrat. (True to my job title, expect me to sit on any such request for a few days again ;-) -- ◄mendel► 13:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Danke. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello
Hello.  <font color="#00dd00">Misery <font color="#00ee00">Says <font color="#00ff00">Moo   16:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I see the iron crown has already started to corrupt you. :] Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 05:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The main character died, now WTF do we do?
The next IRC RP will be held at 5:00 UTC (10:00 p.m. pacific) MONDAY for most people, tuesday for Mendel Tell someone somewhere if you can't go. Also, RT, your schedule is basically opposite of everyone else's. Soz again, again.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  05:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fuck off, Giga. I shed tears for you twice in the past, but never again. I'm done wit' ya, crazy. Consider me written off. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 05:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But it's my crazy that makes me so endearing D: Also, consider yourself written off.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  06:36, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

You never actually got thanked
Because you take more flack then you deserve. So, this is me. Thanking you for all the work that you have done. And minorly apologizing for causing/helping some of that flak. Additionally: You may have defeated the end boss, but you forgot the epilogue. Your story requires at least two more additions to be complete.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 20:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've already gotten thanks for that in the past. More than once.
 * I defeated the end boss, but I couldn't view the epilogue because it was still in Japanese. Even though I had been told the ROM was fully translated. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That was a hidden way of saying that I'm making two more cards for you.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 05:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

組曲『ニコニコ動画』 グランドフィナーレ　全自動マリオ
So Windows Update tells me there's an important update to install - it's Service Pack 2! Everything goes along just fine, it takes a few hours and reboots, etc.

Then I try to log in, and it tells me that my copy of Windows isn't genuine and my product key is invalid.

So unless I decide to pony up several hundred dollars for a new copy of Windows and/or wait some weeks for the actual CD to ship, I will be subject to the following wonderful features:


 * 1) Every 60 minutes, the wallpaper on your desktop will be blanked to a black background.
 * 2) A highly obtrusive yellow-orange notice will constantly float in the lower-right corner of the screen, urging you to validate. This cannot be moved, hidden, or obscured in any way.
 * 3) Windows will randomly log you out.
 * 4) Your desktop and taskbar will be blank and devoid of icons at all times.
 * 5) All other functions of the computer are more or less restricted except for the Internet browser (so you can buy Windows online).

Of course, Microsoft assures me that I will still have full access to all my personal data. Whoop de fucking doo.

Did I mention I am taking two very critical online courses over this summer, as well as jobs involving website quality assurance? And that I do not have any backup computer to rely on?

Fuck my life.

Entropy (C) 11:27, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Microsoft is awful. We all know that. Try backdating? Dunno if that'd work. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 12:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem solved option 2 solution #3 Get the point yet? [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  13:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * By any chance is that popup in the bottom right called Windows Product Activation? Because if it is it might have a 30day countdown after which you can't login. However I don't remember the background blanking thing and that was a while back that I had WPA being annoying so it could be completely different. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  04:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * RT I love you. &mdash; Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] &mdash;  (contribs) 19:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Protip: always fund the public library so they can maintain free computers for the public. And keep ancient laptops etc. even if they are still on Windows 97 or whatever. -_-
 * Can't backdate, the only backup stored on the comp is the original factory image (who uses the built-in backup program anyway? :\); it's a really really really bad idea to go off and start learning a new OS when you only have one working machine, especially right in the middle of time-sensitive projects where I can't afford to be messing around with some unsupported OS that no one could help me on. I *could* wipe the machine and reinstall everything, but I'd rather not...not until I am absolutely sure there is no other alternative. The machine is still under warranty, so technically I should still be able to get it replaced on account of some muppet at the factory/university fucked up the OS installation...
 * Well, technically, I don't even get a popup - as soon as I log in, there's just a thing on my screen telling me the product key is invalid. So I can only utilize an internet browser. That's all that computer can do. Which is even less functional than having no desktop at all. I had to use the manufacturer's "rescue and recovery" tool to extract all my personal files. :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:23, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you tried contacting customer support for Microsoft or the laptop manufacturers? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, funny story about that. There's an option in the dialogue box, "Contact Lenovo for information on how to fix this problem". (Lenovo is the manufacturer.) So I click it and guess what it says?
 * lol? >_>
 * Anyway, it's still technically holiday until tomorrow...I don't really know who to call, e-mail, or otherwise contact, though, to tell the truth. I mean, sure, there's a list of candidates: Microsoft itself, Lenovo, my university's tech department, etc. But where to start........ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you see why I always pirate my copies of Windows. Have since Win2K.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] rede | beiträge 21:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * TPB ownzzzz. I try not to break the laws, though...unless I can't help myself. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * TPB ownzzzz. I try not to break the laws, though...unless I can't help myself. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

See here. Now to dig for either an internet way to activate, or to find a telephone number for the "activation callcenter".... -- ◄mendel► 08:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Ultimately, customers will benefit from the economic impact of reduced piracy through increased job opportunities and higher wages."
 * lol? Maybe if your products weren't so shite and overpriced in the first place (and/or if there was some alternative product for the majority of consumers), people would be willing to buy legit... Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 03:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Just pirate a copy of windows, then deal with getting a legitimate copy later, when you don't need it so urgently. Alternitavly, copy all of your important files off the computer and reimage the drive with the factory disk or some linux distro. If you don't feel like making any drastic changes at the moment, you can always work off of a linux live cd. Also, MS sucks. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 04:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to pirate anything serious. I'm also pretty sure this copy is legitimate (or else it will turn into a big scandal?), but some muppet entered it improperly during installation. I'm working on it.
 * I've got all my important stuff copied, yeah. Lenovo Rescue and Recovery + 250GB external drive = good to go. This machine I'm borrowing is running XP too, which is pleasant.
 * The problem with a reimage is that I don't have the factory CD. They don't give you that. There is an image stored when the computer is first set up at the factory, which does the same thing as a restore more or less, but I guess that is not the same thing.
 * How is changing OS not a "drastic" change, even if Linux is (I think?) the most popular non-mainstream OS? :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, your copy should be legitimate, MS just makes bad software, including their verification systems. You don't have the factory cd?! Every computer manufacturer I've dealt with gives you that, but I guess Lenovo just kinda sucks. The non-drastic change I was referring to was running linux only off of a live cd, rather than actually installing it. That allows you to work in a linux environment without actually changing the OS on your drive. All versions of linux now include this feature on the standard install cd (I think), so just download the image, burn it to disk, the boot up with that disk in the drive. It should give you an option to either continue with the install or boot to a live cd environment. <font color="#DD2200">Lord Belar 04:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, but Belar! The validation service has been running for years now, with over 500 million computers verified, and only a handful of false positives were ever substantiated! :)
 * Because it's not a wholesale or even second-party (like buying through a retail store), but a special deal from a third party (the university), I'm guessing that is why they do not give kids the actual CDs. It would probably be a piracy threat too...!
 * So you can do that with Linux? It seems like that would slow down performance pretty considerably, since then you're basically running off disk/external. Since I'm not playing any computer games at the mo, I guess that wouldn't be terrible, but... Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, forgot about RPI's laptop deal. You'd probably have to take it to university tech support, but since they're on the other side of the continent from you, that may be a bit impossible at the moment. Anyways, every linux distro is going to include at the very least the basics needed for normal functionality (i.e. Web browser, office suite, music player, IM client, minesweeper, solitare, etc. ) out of the box, and thus on the live cd. Yes, you are most likly going to experience a slight performance hit, but it's nothing that's going to render the computer unusable. Hell, running Vista is probably more of a performance hit than a live cd. :P The biggest downside to using a live cd is that your settings changes are not kept between reboots (They're all being stored in ram, to avoid messing up anything on the hard drive.), at least not without a CD-RW and some deep linux magic. You will, however, be able to access, edit and save the files already on your hard drive, so you can continue to do work on it if need be.
 * So I would have to reset the wallpaper every time I log on? That's unacceptable D:
 * The tech department told me to contact Lenovo directly because it's not their problem. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * From what I've heard, a lot of new computers don't come with CDs anymore, because "they can get lost" and the recovery thing is always there unless you lose the entire machine. My new Gateway is that way too.  Anywho, do you have any stickers or anything on the back of the machine with the windows key on it?  Dunno, maybe I'm asking a stupid question, but mine has the sticker right on the back with the windows key right on there.  Can you just enter it when it asks you to, and see what happens?  If that doesn't work (or if it's not there altogether), then it's definitely Lenovo's problem, and I'm sorry for you, this sucks, you need to rip their heads off when you finally get a hold of them.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The sticker is there, the key just isn't accepted. (If it wasn't there, then I would suspect a real counterfeit >.>) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 02:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)