Talk:Reckless Haste

Explaining usage of a skill you have not really used is... counterproductive. Let us wait till the release? please? I implore y'all. --Karlos 08:37, 19 March 2006 (CST)


 * Suppose you link factions to the original karlos :p --10:54, 19 March 2006 (CST)


 * I am going to go out on a limb here (don't like standing on limbs) and assume that skills that are specific to one campaign will not carry over to other campaigns. So, Balthaar's Spirit and Spiteful Spirit will not appear in Factions altogether. Doesn't matter that the character you are taking there has learned them in Prophecies. --Karlos 11:47, 19 March 2006 (CST)


 * I do believe that they have stated the exact opposite Karlos. I'm not 100% positive and I'll try to find a source for this.  --Rainith 11:50, 19 March 2006 (CST)
 * EDIT - from the Factions FAQ:
 *  Will I be able to take my existing characters in the new areas of the world? Do they keep their items, their levels, etc? 


 * If you purchase Factions, you will be able to travel to the new land, Cantha, with your Ascended characters from Guild Wars (original Prophecies campaign). Inventory items, skills, and other possessions and attainments from Guild Wars remain yours and remain useable within Guild Wars Factions.
 * --Rainith 11:53, 19 March 2006 (CST)


 * Hmmm, so the division of Core, Prophecies and Factions among skills is just a division of where you can BUY the skill? That's it? huh. Amazing. :) The note is warranted then. --Karlos 12:31, 19 March 2006 (CST)


 * Essentially, if you only have Factions, you'll never be able to use a Prophecies only skill, but you can team up with people who have linked the two and they can use that skill. If you only have the original Guild Wars, you'll never be able to use a Factions skill, but you can team up with people who have both and have linked them and they can use the Factions skills in your party.  --Rainith 12:35, 19 March 2006 (CST)

Is it just me or did this skill make SS even godlier? I mean, they cut MM down so much while giving SS a huge boast. - Unchain 00:51, 2 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd say that's warranted - few PUGs will leave unless they have an MM. (Apart from healers.) But we're drifting offtopic, and yeah, this is a good skill in combination. Kessel 06:23, 12 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I actually don't agree. SS was always only useful as an attacker shutdown. Only truly clueless people would keep attacking through SS, so Haste just makes clueless people die faster. Yawn. Personally, I think the best combinations of Haste (hint: Price of Failure and Spirit of Failure) are yet to become powerful in the metagame, mainly because the Failure skills could use a little casting time and recharge buff. – 70.20  ( &#x260e; ) 2006-06-12 11:31 (UTC)

Magic number
As someone said in the edit history for the article, you need to use GW math, not real math. A 25% IAS means swing time is reduced by 25% (which of course is not the same thing as 25% more attacks per unit time). For X swings per second, a 25% IAS really means 4X/3 swings per second. If you miss 25% of them, you're back to X swings per second hitting on average. Hence, the magic number is a 25% miss rate, which falls between 4 and 5 curses. --Fyren 06:56, 8 March 2007 (CST)

the damage done by an opponent can be calculated by the following calculation: ATTACK SPEED x HIT RATIO. at normal, this both is 100 what make a calculation of: 100 x 100 = 10.000 when the attack speed increases with 25% and the HIT RATIO is decreased with 25% you got another calculation. the calculation is then: 75 x 125 = 9.375 I can conclude that the damage done is decreased. even when the HIT RATIO is decreased by just 21% (by 3 curses) the damage done is decreased: 79 x 125 = 9.875

11:00, 15 March 2007
 * Read what I already said above. That's not how it works.  --Fyren 05:53, 15 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Did you tried this out?

I think not, and if you did, tell me how you tried it out.  11:04, 15 March 2007

I guess this means no. And by the way... if you ever try it out, you will see I was right  11:28,15 March 2007

Besides, what you said (I repeat): 25% IAS really means 4X/3 swings per second 4X/3 means an attack speed of 133% of normal. This is only if you got an speed boost of 33%. So guess the way you described above is not the right way. The only way you can convince me is by trieng it out. If you ever do (what i really doubt) please send me the results. And you was saying about GW maths. I have never heard of it, and I dont believe you said it without believing it by yourself.  16:42, 15 March 2007

Still no response..  7:14, 16 March 2007

Using a sword as example. the usual rate is 1 (swing) over 1.33 (seconds), .75 swings per second. Flurry changes that to 1 (swing) over .89 (seconds), 1.12 swings per second. If you do it the other way, it becomes 1.33 (swings) over 1.33 seconds. 1 swing per 1 second. Okay, just lost myself.

Basically, the first time is a close to 50% increase in hits per second, the latter is 33% increase. The first is what happens. Don't use fractions here, if it seems to be irritating. -Silk Weaker 02:35, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

I see that you did not really tried this out. I already did this. I tried the following thing: 2 warriors. Both a max damage weapon(15-22 sword) no mods. With armour (80) Just fight to each other without using any skills. 1 necro used reckless haste on 1 warrior with 4 curses. I tried this out 10 times. The warrior without reckless haste won 10 of 10 times with just a bit health left. I think this is enough evidence to convince you. If this is not so, you are not really smart. 17:37, 16 March (+1 GMT)
 * Quick reminder about GW:NPA. Let's keep things civil, please. Jinkas 12:32, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

What means civil? I am not that good in english.  18:16, 16 March 2007(+1 GMT)


 * Your example is poor, because you still have the damage variable. You have to remove that from the equation. A better example is to use something like Fraps to record the interval when attacking with and without Reckless Haste. You'll be surprised to find that real world mathematics does not apply to certain percentage based increases in Guild Wars. If you accurately recorded it, you'll find that swords/axes take 4/3rds of a second to swing, whereas while under Frenzy, they take 8/9s of a second. If the Warrior was hexed with Reckless Haste (or even just use Dwarven Battle Stance or "I Will Avenge You!"), you'll find that they're swinging every second. --220.233.103.77 18:39, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Ok, you was right there is a variable damage. But I will try this out again, but then with candy cane weapons. I will show you the results.  12:48, 18, March 2007

I worked it out and here are the results: Both players did not wear any armour. Both players did not spend any atribute points. Both players had a 10/10 damage candy cane weapon. Both players had 500 hit points. Both players where lvl 20. 1 player was hexed with reckless haste at atribute lvl 3 (cause 22% miss change). 10 fights.

The warrior without reckless haste had won 10 of 10 battles with hit point left as following: first fight   : 30 second fight  : 20 third fight   : 40 fourth fight  : 20 fifth fight   : 30 sixth fight   : 20 seventh fight : 10 eighth fight  : 10 ninth fight   : 20 tenth fight   : 20

These results should convince you since you thought the warrior with reckless haste had benefit.

12:46 26-03-2007 (+1 GMT)
 * No, because there's still another random variable: reckless's chance to miss. Your player hexed with reckless will end up swinging more than 50 times by the time the other player kills him.  What if he happens to miss one extra time?  Two?  Five?  Chances are he won't actually miss exactly 22% of the time in a trial even though on average he will.
 * Attack speed increases work how I already explained. Go to the isle of the nameless with a zealous sword or axe but no axe master or swordsmanship.  Set a stopwatch for 100s, keep frenzy active all the time for a "33% attack speed increase," then start the stopwatch and start attacking a dummy.  Count how many swings you get.
 * Normal attack speed is 1 swing every 4/3s for an axe or sword. So, over 100s that's 100 * 3 / 4 = 75 swings.  With a "33% increased attack speed" you say it should end up being 75 * 4 / 3 = 100 swings.  I say it should actually be 75 * 3 / 2 = 112.5 swings.  Why?  Because it's decreasing time per swing and not increasing attacks per second by the given percentage.  --Fyren 15:29, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

I know that he did not miss exactly 22% of his sweeps, therefore I tried this out 10 times and not 1 time. If the chances are 50/50 the chance is also 0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5x0,5 that 1 warrior wins 10 of 10 battles. That is: 1/1024 = 0.009765625. This is without reckless haste on somebody. I do not guess this has happend. If as you say the chance is bigger for the warrior with reckless haste has a bigger chance to win, the chance is even decreased that the warrior without it wins 10 times in a row. Of course there will be a variable. But you can expel that almost by doing it over and over again. The more times you do it over, the more you expel the variable. Just try it out yourself and you will see.


 * I found this interesting and since I've never tried Fraps myself, thought I'd get some practice trying it with this. Probably won't get it right though. Just a theory about why theory (Fyren), which looks to be proven correct on the other pages wrt to IAS, doesn't seem to be agreeing with experiment (sebv) might be because GW actually got the % IAS 'right' this time? I'll check it out with fraps once I get the skill if someone hasn't by then. Archon 17:54, 29 March 2007 (CDT)