User talk:Entropy/bureaucrat

I would like to put forward that Ishmael is extremely active and tends to remain impartial in conflicts, something that I've never quite managed. 00:53, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Please follow instructions on the page, then. >.> (T/C) 01:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I posted before they existed. I'm a bit busy packing right now, since I leave in under an hour. It might have to wait for Monday. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

of the current sysops:
Gem, RT, myself. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 18:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Erm...
When the hell have bureaucrats ever mediated disputes? You guys are acting like this is GWW alluva sudden. Sysops do everything - user mediations, blocks, and all the diplomatic stuff you guys are attributing to bcratship. Bcrats don't do any of that; they just promote sysops and keep an eye on how things are running. Rarely, they'll do something like Cory did with the builds wipe; when the community simply can't come to a decision, they'll step in and make one. But for the day-to-day running of the wiki, Bureaucrats don't matter in the least; that's why the sysops are all expected to use discretion in their cases, because they're the judge/jury/executioner. They represent the wiki more than the bureaucrat, to be honest; if someone wants to know something about the wiki (or if someone wants a PR contact), it will more than likely be a sysop that responds. I really don't understand when people use reasoning like "With his attitude he may make a good sysop but wouldn't handle the additional duties of a bcrat well imo." What duties of a bcrat conflict with my attitude, exactly? I'm not seeing any, so in case I've missed them in the past three years, please point them out. - Auron 06:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Pretty much ditto (though I would say it with a different tone of voice d-: ). In addition, I believe Cory was involved in arbitration etc only because he was the type of person he was, NOT because he was a Bcrat.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ye. What's funny is... I was a peer mediator for years in school, so mediation and arbitration really aren't new concepts to me. We learned a bunch of things, but mostly we learned to stay impartial and to refrain from giving advice. I'd say I'm pretty good at it too, but I've never really had to use mediation skills on any wiki - either because the carebear crew got involved early enough, or because I didn't want to see a dispute resolved :P (malicious intent, I know, but wikidrama can be so much fun). - Auron 10:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "What duties of a bcrat conflict with my attitude, exactly? I'm not seeing any, so in case I've missed them in the past three years, please point them out." A question that answers itself--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk /Contribs ) 11:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, it doesn't, or I wouldn't have asked it in the first place. All I've seen people talk about are duties more befitting of a sysop, and definitely not the leading job of a bureaucrat. - Auron 11:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "or because I didn't want to see a dispute resolved :P (malicious intent, I know, but wikidrama can be so much fun)." -I believe that answers your question. You think that the person with ultimate power over the wiki should reason like that?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 14:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't answer Auron's question. He asked "What duties of a bcrat conflict with my attitude, exactly?" You cited an example of something that could be classified under "attitude" and then said that someone with "ultimate power" over a wiki shouldn't reason that way, which really isn't relevant, since even Entropy doesn't have "ultimate power" over guildwiki. Furthermore, Auron and Pan are arguing that mediating disputes is not one of the duties of a bureaucrat, and you have not refuted that point, so that example isn't relevant, either.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 16:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Look I'm not going to waste time delving into it, I don't much care for arguments on the internet and there is no point in trying to change anyones mind. But a bcrat does have to moderate conflicts more then any normal sysop, what if a sysop, or even two sysops suddenly got into a fight with each other, god knows that we have enough sysops (and more being added frequently for some reason...) with differing views to start conflicts. Not only that but a bcrat has to decide when a new sysop is needed and who should be it, sure there is the RFA but its clearly stated before that RFAs frankly mean crap if the Bcrat doesn't agree with the poll. Just from those two examples I think that it is obvious that the duties of a bcrat are greater then what Auron thinks, which is why he would not fit the job.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 16:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, YAV means nothing, sure it may look fair and official but there have been times then the admins of this wiki have ignored public objections and did what they wanted. They have all the power.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 16:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "There have been times then the admins of this wiki have ignored public objections and did what they wanted", there is a difference between being valuable and respected, vs getting things done your way. People are valuable even when they make mistakes, they are valuable even if what they say actually don't make sense (as long as their intent was good), and they are valuable even when they are right but just couldn't get their point across to the thick-skulls of the other party's head. Looking at "who gets their way" in the end does not reflect on the valubility of the participants in the conflict of interests.  YAV isn't about "you will get your way"; YAV's spirit is about "evaluate the words/logic/rational on its own merit, and not let the fact of who did it either positively or negatively affect the evaluation of the words/logic/rational. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. The Bcrat doesn't need to mediate, the Bcrat just ensures the sysops don't abuse their powers before the issue is resolved.  So for example, Entropy can desysop two sysops who are reverting each other on a protected page, and/or banning other people who are trying to help resolve the situation, without actually mediating the conflict.  desysop-ing would take 30 seconds.  Mediating until the issues is resolved takes a minimum of 30 minutes (and can last up to days) if you aren't just gonna outright make up your mind and ban someone from the wiki for life.  The rest of the community has every right to take part in the 30min~days part, freeing the Bcrat to only be responsible for the 30-second thing. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)