User:Jagre/Funny

Rate-a-build
..."I've never actually heard the word "meleemancer" used at all, by anyone. I think this [meleemancer build article] should be scrapped unless someone cares to replace it with a build named "meleemancer" or some build variants that could fit the name. PurpleXVI 15:48, 18 December 2006 (CST)"
 * ..."Any volunteers? I've never played Necro enough to be up for the challenge if anyone more capable wants it. PurpleXVI 09:50, 19 December 2006 (CST)"
 * ..."Seriously, someone come up with a build or delete this. Even Whammos have builds."

- Excerpted from discussion from Meleemancer page. -- Jagre 09:42, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * And would you please stop making pointless edits flooding the recent changes page..--Babbo Elvis 09:48, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

''Please test and vote on. Testing is encouraged but not required.''

Favored:
 * 1) I'm going to avoid jumping on the bandwagon and give Jagre what he wants, even though i personally wouldn't use the build. --[[Image:Kitty1.jpg|19px|]] (Talk) (Cont) (Cool) [[Image:Soft2.jpg|19px|]]08:02, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm, I use a similar build for RA sometimes, and have been toying with the idea of trying something like it in FOW sometime. Despite what people think of it, it actually does do more damage in RA than a generic SS or blood spike necro.69.85.158.5 11:32, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) Surprisingly, it works pretty well. &mdash;[[Image:Alert.PNG]] Ebany Salmonderiel (Talk) [ Leave a note] 16:12, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Unfavored:
 * 1) unfocused, no energy management, low armor, other melee-mancer counters --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 20:33, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * See the Introduction, and once again, the zealous sword proviedes some energy management. saying that the build has "no" or "zero" energy management is false - discuss whether or not it is ENOUGH for the current - not whether or not it "has" energy management because it does.. Jagre 22:40, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Whatever, this is a dead page already. let it rest in peace.--Babbo Elvis 09:39, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) --Theonemephisto 17:56, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) No synergy beyond the slice/gash combo. Very low health with a superior and a major rune. Skills look randomly thrown together. Lacking necessary defense for throwing a 60AL char into the front lines. Jinkas 18:06, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Jinkas I have gotten 25 gladiator points with the build under discussion, and you have 6. Please refrain from voting until you have experience in the subject. Jagre 20:47, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Spiteful Spirit and Insidious Parasite do not provide synergy? likewise, they do do not provide defense? ... look at the build before you criticize, much less vote.Jagre 23:08, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * SS + IP isnt synergy. It would be like Battle Rage and Sever Artery. Sure one complments the other, but not by much. And how is SS defense? --SBR 21:05, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * SS + IP = one of the most SYNERGISTIC approaches to anti-melee shutdown in the game. Go find a necro in observe mode and ask them if SS + IP have synergy or not.  It KILLS melee characters. Straight up.Jagre 20:47, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Meet my necro, with 2.5 mil exp. Sure each time they attack, but every time I hit with Battle Rage, I get Adrenaline! --SBR 22:52, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * That's great, SBR. You use that outside of Ascalon City? hmm?Jagre
 * 1) See no advantage to wasting attributes and 2 slots for a sword necro with these skills.--Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|18px|]] 18:43, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I can see why you would say this, let me expalain. With the attributes you would get from swordsmanship you would be able to raise blood by ONE point, Curses by TWO points, and Soul Reaping by 2 points.  This acounts to 3 extra damage by spiteful, 2 extra damage by blood spike skills, and 2 energy each time someone dies. THIS IS NOTHING.
 * Now, lets look at the advantages of using a sword. Attacks strike for about 7 more damage per attack, you get about half a blip more of energy regeneration, and you get two skills that do AS much damage as say life siphon or whatever else you replace them with but cost NO energy.
 * The sword makes this build fun to play, gives it fair (although not great) energy management, adaptability and increases DPS by I would say about 100dmg a minute.Jagre 23:02, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) --SBR 20:53, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) I tried this build in RA, and it was just as sub-par as it looks... just doesn't have the damage output or life-steal to compare with a warrior. 24.17.195.176 21:11, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Warriors do not have LIFE-STEAL or the Damage output of the Jaguar Sword melee mancer, don't post false information on this page. yeah thanks. / Jagre 23:33, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) Stupid builds and inflammatory users that post them is the primary reason why the builds section is getting nuked Post No Builds No Original Builds--Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 00:06, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Please don't say things like "inflammatory users that post them" Jagre 05:57, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It'd be mean if it weren't so true. This build was used as a recent example of why the Builds section needs to be deleted. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 06:10, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It does not need to be deleted. I was very inexperienced at the way disucssions and voting is done on this site, and what you and Lania are talking about is nothing more of a result of my inexperience.  It will not happen again - I am a quick learner.  Please reconsider any decisions to nuke the builds section.  Guildwiki has a...I cannot find a word to express how great it is... *builds section.*  I see now why they are wary of the builds that are put into the tested category, and even though I still believe that my build has not been given a fair shot, I accept any votes against it.  I am severely sorry for my actions, I hope it is easy to understand that I was polite considering the fact that even though I read most of the policy articles, I still did not fully understand the procedure and made some mistakes.  Jagre 06:27, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I will admit, you are a rare breed. Intelligent as you seem, imagine the scenario; every new editor has a build that he's used since GW came out. He's beaten enemies with it in PvE, and taken it for a whirl in AB and had success. He then comes on the Wiki and posts it, and it attracts unfavored votes immediately. Naturally, the OP gets defensive; nooby or not, he sticks up for his build, which gets him in altercations with other contributors. Up till here, this was the case with you; however, you changed, you learned, you apologized and moved on. You can probably understand that the vast majority of these new contributors don't ever realize that; they continue to flame and call people names, and after their original block period ends, they hold grudges against everyone that unfavored their build. They run around unfavoring good builds, not because they don't like the build, but because they're voting in spite against the people they begrudge. That snowballs and those once-new users become "noobs," unwilling to learn, and a serious pain in the ass. Since only a handful of contributors are seen on almost every build talk page on the Wiki, those contributors catch the most flak. They get tired of being bitched at by people for any reason, and they start acting sour themselves. The entire community becomes a pack of scrooges, mostly because the influx of new users that are abusive and only appear to care about getting their build vetted. While the builds might be worth looking at, the build section has failed. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 06:39, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) Sigh, another nail in the coffin for the build section. Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)
 * 2) Jack of all trades, master of none. Touch Rangers spam touch skills better, SS (or Reaper's Mark, preferably) necros stack hexes better, and Warriors deal better damage and have the high armor required to stay in frontlines and fight. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 06:10, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 3) If your mates see you with a sword they'll run around crying. but even if they stayed, well, whaaa....??!?? (Just to sum up the above comments) it MAY work to a point,everything does, but whats the point? i've seen echo menders or flare spammers getting glad points in the RA., you probably will be able to do this with your build but it'll never be a really suitable choice. --Babbo Elvis 06:29, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * tell me a better choice, and I will try it and judge your statement. It works better than a touch ranger, and as well as the earth ele builds with the armor spells.  It works better (at least for me) than a ZB prot monk. It has enough survivability to outlast a KD shock hammer warrior using insidious parasite and vamp touch alone.  I ask humbly that you re-evaluate your vote.  Also FYIWitherworks way better than reaper's mark for RA, but that is just my opinion. But we could discuss that here too if you want, but I would ask that after I tell you all these things and successfully explain all the points of my build that you re-evaluate your votes.Jagre 06:54, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I would need to make an humongous post. anyway, FYI, well, umm,, no thx, nothing personal, i dont have enough patience. i would do that if i had. But in this page you see plenty of constructive criticism, even if some may have been harsh --Babbo Elvis 07:05, 19 March 2007 (CDT).
 * 1) Pretty absurd build. You're a frontline squishy with zero defenses swinging a sword with 10 in the weapon attribute, spamming 15 energy spells with a mere 2 points in Soul Reaping, and all your skills have ZERO synergy with each other: ranged bspike, touch skills, sword attacks, melee hate, caster hate, a.k.a. KITCHEN SINK. --Dirigible 16:15, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) No energy management, is a melee mancer, has long cast spells, and has Vampiric Touch. 'Nuff said. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 19:45, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 3) Bloodspiker, Curse Overload, or even some non-MM Death build works better across the board, has better survivability, is not melee-range, is not restricted in the kinds of targets it can kill, has better energy management, and - probably the most important argument - does what a Necromancer is supposed to do. Just like trying to make a Wammo a healer or an E/W your frontline tank...it just doesn't work. I don't care how much lifesteal a "meleemancer" has, the concept is inherently flawed and it's just doing two jobs badly. Want a frontliner? Make a Touch Ranger or Thumper, or grab a Warrior, Assassin, Dervish, or Paragon. Want a backliner? Necromancer, non-IW Mesmer, Support Paragon, Elementalist, Ritualist, Monk. There are only a very few unique builds which break the "Line Hierarchy", like IW Mesmer; but even then, those are precarious builds with many shortcomings that must be dealt with. Because this build does not adequately cover the weaknesses of melee-range at 60AL, and because it fails to outperform a Warrior or a Necromancer focused on their jobs, this build gets my unfavored vote. Don't do two things badly at the same time. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]]\(T/C) 20:03, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * HEY GUESS WHAT, The Jaguar Sword can KILL ANY THUMPER, SIN, or WARRIOR at front lines, and can survive better than any of those TOO. YOU HAVE SOME BIG REVELATIONS TO HAVE DUDE ABOUT OPEN-MINDEDNESS. - &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jagre (contribs) 21:37, 19 March 2007.
 * And then they kite, and all you can do is shadow strike them. edit: also; entropy isn't a "dude". –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:02, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Seems like... if you are a gamer, post on Gwiki, and if you are good at gaming then you must be a guy :-/ lol ---Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 00:29, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I respond to people online I don't know as men by default as well -.- –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:46, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * In RA, Warriors and THumpers don't KITE, they sit there and attack until they kill themselves. Assasins kite sometimes.  Let them!  Focus on someone elze as they RUN away, instead of chase them like a noob. Jagre 01:02, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * In RA, echo mending can get glad points. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 01:03, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * No it's the double echo mending that wins RA. plain old echo mending is just noobish lol--Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 01:38, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * psshhh... Double Echo Mending? Are you kidding me?  That is so last year!  The really 1337 builds are Double Echo Mending Frenzy Healing Sig.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)
 * Lol? Jagre, if I need revelations about open-mindedness, then you need (a) an education in PvP; (b) Intro to Good Builds 101; (c) a course in civility. This build is a piece of crap and any Sin, Thumper, Shock Axe - any popular frontline build - is totally owned by this. It is also apparent to me that you are unfamiliar with the skillbars used in these builds. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Can I vote again please? &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 21:52, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * That would be a "No." --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   22:07, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Discussion
"[Necromancers'] ability to trade Health back and forth or their abilities to decrease armor can make a good combination with a Warrior profession" - The Necromancer page. JAGRE Jagre 09:26, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

IMPORTANT NOTE: I would like to edit my own comments in light of new understanding, which is that respect is more important here than I at first knew, as well as in light of better understanding of the rules and policy. I sincerely apologize for my comments before and my behavior. I ask for understanding as it was in response to equal disrespect.

Also, I did edit my comments once, which resulted in Barek's threat of ban to anyone who blanks discussions. He also reverted my comments back to original form. Therefor I will not do so, until I receive permission from him.

Please understand that all comments are not directed at you, but to the very first people who commented/ voted on my page, and that I did not fully understand the rules. Thanks.

Now that my build is finished, I would like it be moved back to the Untested Section. This was my first time contributing to wiki, and I apologize for not putting it in the Stubs section. I would like all votes to be re-evaluated.Jagre 22:40, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The build itself hasn't changed at all..... Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)
 * It was voted unfavored because the people voting did not understand the build. The adjustments that have been made give a more clear explanation of how it is meant to be used, and I would like everyone who voted to re-evaluate their votes.  Jagre 23:51, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I understand. You want to be ineffective. --SBR 00:40, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I do not understand your comment, SBR. --Jagre 06:07, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You can move it back to untested if you like, but I seriously doubt anyone's opinion will have changed... you still have no energy management, low armor, etc. Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)
 * Once again, the zealous sword PROVIDES SOME ENERGY MANAGEMENT! saying that the build has "no" or "zero" energy management is false - discuss whether or not it is ENOUGH for the CURRENT BUILD - not whether or not it "has" energy management because it does.
 * Would this get the discussion page erased? Jagre 06:03, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * OK, I disagree with you, but because I am open to the fact that i am wrong, I would like to know how you personally would improve on these things? But lets talk about specific things, so as not to drastically alter the shape of this build.  Like, it's survivability is good in my opinion because you get health regen from insidious parasite and can replenish your health any time.  And energy management is fair because you can get energy numerous ways via the zealous sword that maybe you haven't thought of before, without putting yourself in danger.  Plus you have two skills that do not require energy.   Jagre 00:10, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I would help if I could.... but I don't think the concept is viable to begin with.... Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)
 * It's not. Melee-mancers are called that as a joke, you realize? Why do you think it works when a warrior does more damage, and a real necro has enough cover hexes to work against proper teams? -Silk Weaker 00:35, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Well, all your questions can be answered by reading through the build. I don't understand "...it works when a when a warrior does more damage" a warrior does not do more damage than this, except maybe a hammer warrior...  and I used to use cover hexes. I used to use parasitic bond and an interupt. Like I've said before, it's the variety of types of skills that make this build work in RA.
 * The big bang theory was also called that as a joke. -Jagre 04:35, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

--Jagre 05:50, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

I wish i heard these words by a couple guys i have in mind.. sigh.Anyway IMO you have no need to edit them all again ,it would be too messy, i've gone through the same thing as you,i learnt, i left the unfavored build as it was.and i was fine Well, no, nevermind. you're still utterly defensive. this should be everyone's work!so why your attitude? can't you really accept the fact that ppl may not think alike as you all the time? its simple as that.you can cry swear or do whatever you like, people are allowed to express their opinion and a mature person is meant to understand that without coming up with endless arguments. You're always free to use your build if you think it's that good, other ppl may not necessary do so--Babbo Elvis  06:53, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

LooK. This is My build; My creation, so Tomarrow, I feel justfied by sections of the rules I have viewed to delete all comments, since they are all attacks, and because it is a page I made, and also to change the build to the a version I used to use, that is easier to understand. If you disagree with this, or feel they would be malicious to you, tell me now. Please do not post attacks or flames on my pages again. The next time I will not retaliate with arguments against your statements, I will delete them, and consider reporting the user.Jagre 21:29, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Since you are still reverting my page, and tearing it, I will no longer participate in it. The next time I post a build I will be aware that the people who look at them just don't "look before they leap." They would rather toss it out without even finishing reading it, much less letting the author finish it, or give an old (easier to understand) version of it. I will just get three of my friends to vote at the same time, like it seems you do; play by the same rules you seem to play by... shooot, man. i really did not want it to turn into this, but i was just excited about posting a build.Jagre 21:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)


 * If you werent done, then you move it to stub status. Please QQ moar plox. --SBR 20:57, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

The hell? Move this to stub, someone. - (Abedeus) 16:37, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You could've done that yourself :P –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 16:44, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

First of all, when you submit something to the wiki, it's not yours anymore. Second of all, quote from submission page: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." 08:36, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

Is this like used, or are you just being stupid? I can't tell.--Nog64Talk 18:12, 17 March 2007 (CDT)


 * can the above comments please be deleted, someone? Jagre 22:47, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

The RaB is from the previous name. The author said he was trying to rename the build; the build itself didn't change. --Fyren 18:28, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

What relation does this have, whatsoever, with Build:Me/W Spell Slasher? Besides the fact that they both have terrible synergy and they both put casters where they shouldn't be. --   18:43, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

wtf. u just throw away a build like that? it was up for 5 minutes. NO DISCUSSION whatsoever, be more wary to just vote ya chakin blits. u didn't even have enough time to READ THROUGH IT.
 * Chakin blits? what the hell is a chakin blit? If your going to insult someone use real words. I voted unfavored because it would suck at just about any role with its current skill and attribute spread.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|18px|]] 18:57, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Lets not insult anybody, ok? --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   18:59, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

you say it would suck at "any role." The role it is made for is general pressure. It simultaneously destroys *any* melee character, causes heals to fail, and puts awesome pressure on one or *more* targets. I ask you: what is the point in a battle in GW? Under almost all circumstances, it is to kill people. This build can easily kill sins, warriors, rangers, and paragons while putting adequate pressure on monk to kill the main target. That is the role it is for: to simultaneously put pressure on a monk and one or more melee characters.Jagre 21:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Less pressure than a W, less punishment than a normal SS, less life steal than a generic blood build. –Ichigo724 19:07, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Whatever dude.Jagre 21:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Anybody who wants to can see this build, and will continue to be able to see it into the indefinite future. If six people disagree with those who have already voted, then it will be favored. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    19:19, 17 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, and I have a picture of me getting a Gladiator point with a 55 Monk. I've come close with Echo Mending. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    20:43, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

I do not see why my page keeps getting reverting back it's original state. I reverted it ONCE and i got reported. nice editing in general to fix everything, reverting my build back to an old version multiple times, general flaming......... this is ridiculous, i guess i will be the only one using this build until someone else gets inspired by seeing me in RA and copies it, and posts it, and maybe one of you guys will, and you can get your friends to vote at the same time to keep your builds up for fame, and no one else's. "I've come close [to getting a gladiator point] with Echo Mending. --   20:43, 17 March 2007 (CDT)" --nice lies man. why don't you just leave the page i made alone if you're just gonna flam?EJagre 21:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "Is this like used, or are you just being stupid? I can't tell.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Yaaaay.JPG]] 18:12, 17 March 2007 (CDT)"  nice flaming.

I will refer you to GW:NPA and leave this discussion, as it no longer seems to be on topic. --   21:03, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

There is not one piece of constructive criticism on this entire page. If you have nothing but prejudiced things to say about the build, then please leave the page to people who are not biased.


 * Alright,
 * 1)This build lacks energy management and 2 soul reaping and a zealous weapon can't counter your 3 15 cost spells and 2 10 cost spells.
 * once again, the zealous sword proviedes some energy management. saying that the build has "no" or "zero" energy management is false - discuss whether or not it is ENOUGH for the current - not whether or not it "has" energy management because it does..Jagre 08:43, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2)Your claim of killing other melee players fast then a warrior is bogus, most melee builds are best suited to kill casters, a warrior is not designed to go head on with another.
 * umm..... proofread that sometime in the futureJagre 08:43, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 3)This build can not put sufficient pressure on anythnig with its current energy pool.
 * it has 47 energy. That to me seems like a lot. Jagre 08:43, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 4)Mark of subversion has a 30 second recast and can't be a claim to put pressure on casters.
 * 5)A blood spiker has more damage, usually pressure from life siphon, more survivability and doesn't require you to fight in front lines.
 * 6)A warrior/monk with bleed and deep wound combo can add more pressure with a IAS and the higher points in swordsman ship with higher armor. While bringing vigorous spirit with a few points in healing prayers to give better healing then this.
 * Finally, your behavior is not helping your point. And for whatever reason you decided to sign in the middle of my previous comment I'll ask you not to vandalize what I said.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|18px|]] 23:16, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Finally, your behavior is not helping your point. And for whatever reason you decided to sign in the middle of my previous comment I'll ask you not to vandalize what I said.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|18px|]] 23:16, 17 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Alright look, it's a good build, I swear. I could post other alternatives that people might accept more easily, but it works better than the other necro builds in the TESTED section that I have tried, and I have tried most of them for RA, and HA.
 * There is also a very different playing style when using this build than say, a warrior, or blood spiker. The playing style is more like an assasin.  You should RARELY be at the front lines.  I SHOULD HAVE ADDRESSED THAT IN THE BUILD, and i am glad that you brought that up, because it helps me in my writing technique.
 * Votes are *said* to be *meant* to be by PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH SIMILAR builds. None of you who voted have EVER played a melee-mancer before, and I HIGHLY doubt that you have played Spiteful Spirit outside of PVE environments.  The build was not up for more than 3 minutes, which means that A) people did not spend more than 3 minutes even LOOKING at the build and B) NO ONE TRIED IT.  so wtf?  i was pissed, and that was messed up man.
 * Furthermore, I was reported for editting my own build, and then it was editted back again. I'm over it man.  I'm not gonna be apart of the guildwiki community and I think the people who FLAMED my build (yeah i flamed back) are idiots, and to flame someone's build is stupid.
 * I don't want to talk discuss our behavior any more. About having a warrior: that would not work because warriors would not be able to get off the spells that (if you had any experience with SS and/or IP you would know this, go ask any experienced necro about SS and IP for "synergy" they will say yeah, that's DAMN close to the best combination for antimelee that there is.
 * I apparently have not made the purpose of the build clear enough to be understood by those with very little experience using antimelee counters besides blind or whatever, and no experience using a sword as a caster primary.
 * Jinkas reported me for "revert wars" lol, when i accidentally went over his edit one time (or more accurately his DELETION).
 * anyways i will do an edit to try to make clear (at least to un-biased people) that the build is, in fact not specialized, but instead generally effective against a VERY wide variety of players. It can out-damage/out-live ALMOST ALL characters encountered in RA.  I will attempt to explain that is is a general pressure build.  The thing about blood spike, warrior, etc. is that it's overkill.  why waste your skill slots on pressure, spikes, or whatever when just 2 skills are enough to get the job done.  mark and the conditions are ENOUGH.  They're NOT *AS good* as what a warrior could do, but it's ENOUGH.  Meanwhile you've got GREAT anti-melee spells.  Does this help you to understand the purpose of the build?  It's an RA build.Jagre 08:50, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

Don't Blank This Page
Mmmkay, Jagre? 08:32, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

what dude or are you being sarcastic? what?Jagre 09:15, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * No sarcasm. Do not blank pages. And sign your comments with four tildes. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 12:54, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

I do sign see above Jagre 19:42, 18 March 2007 (CDT) 1234

Jinkas deletes my edits. what should I do about this, and reports when I edit the page I created. Isn't that against said policy? Jagre 19:51, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

Deleting Votes
Somewhere along the line, User:Jagre deleted most of the unfavored votes. I'm on my way out the door and I don't have time right now, but can someone go back into the history and change this? And report this user for vote deletion? Thanks. Jinkas 09:55, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. --Dirigible 10:00, 18 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Can SOMEONE REPORT JINKAS for reverting wars, please?
 * I only deleted the ones that were erroneous or going against the said rules of guildwiki.Jagre 19:45, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The rules of guildwiki forbid modifing other users votes in ANY situation with the SINGLE exception of a User voting on his own build. There are no reasons for deleting whatsoever. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    20:07, 18 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, it doesn't matter whether they vote erroneously, they don't give a reason, whatever. You can ask them to remove their vote if you fixed the problem or ask them to reread the build or whatever, but don't remove their votes.  <font color="DodgerBlue">Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)

For the record: GW:VETTING. –Ichigo724 22:10, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

Escalation
Ok, at this point, too many Wiki policies have already been broken and the situation is only getting worse. Reading through the back and forth between the author and other various participants in this conflict is like wading through a marsh while blindfolded with a weight attached to your anckles. This whole thing is ridiculous. I already posted on Barek's talk page about trying to get some mediation, but, if possible, why don't all parties involved attempt to explain what the situation is in a calm rational manner and hopefully we can reach some kind of consensus or at least prevent further escalation. Ok? <font color="DodgerBlue">Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)


 * I would like my build's page to be moved back to un-tested or stubs and for this discussion page to be deleted. -Jagre 07:56, 19 March 2007 (CDT)


 * NOTE: The next person to blank out parts of discussions or to alter someone else's vote will be banned. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:47, 19 March 2007 (CDT)


 * There, now that we have that Sword of Damocles hanging over all of our heads, can we please sit down (figuratively) and resolve this? <font color="DodgerBlue">Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)

Let's make this short, shall we? Jagre, do you plan on making big (read: 3+ skills) changes so it comes up for a revote? I still doubt a meleemancer would get vetted then, but until then, this shouldn't get another RAB. –Ichigo724 01:11, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

What is an RAB? I really think it's good how it is, and that everyone in the discussion should try it and then give me more feedback. But I will consider doing that. I did before one time, and I could again, but I was reported... also, I deleted some of my own negatory comments and Barek put them back so......... I would like to kind of start by maybe cleaning up the bickering a bit on the discussion page. I am currently waiting on permission from Barek to do this to *my own* comments. Once again, I'm sorry for my actions. I am new to discussion on wiki, I hope you understand... -Jagre 04:29, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Request for Entire Discussion Page to be Deleted
This page is riddled with arguments and discussions that belong elsewhere. This was merely a reflection of my noobiness to build writing. I'm sorry. -Jagre 05:54, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

My (Jagre's (Author's)) Opinion of the Comments on this page
I think they suck. It just goes to show that 99.9% of all people are too "over-confident" to see past their own short-sightings of what is really good. Nobody gave this build a fair chance. You would rather have more "specialized" for an RA setting. LMFAO.

CAN SOMEONE BESIDES ME EXPLAIN TO THESE PEOPLE what is wrong with their statements???

Throughout the course of making this build, I have been reported, threatened, directly insulted. My build has been ridiculed. PLEASE SPEND MORE TIME READING THE BUILDS PAGE THAN READING THE DISCUSSION PAGE. PLEASE.

Alright I'm done. -JAGRE Jagre 07:40, 19 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I'd like to be the last person to tell you that mixing spellcasting and sword attacks never works. you have no energy management, which leaves you with using barbarous slice and gash, which would be much better on a warrior, who would rather use sever artery because frenzy rocks.
 * Ignoring the warrior skills, you're trying to mix anti-warrior with anti-caster without energy management, which any half-decent mesmer will tell you that it doesn't work. For your next build (if you decide to make another one), try and focus on one thing instead of trying to do everything. --[[Image:Kitty1.jpg|19px|]] (Talk) (Cont) (Cool) [[Image:Soft2.jpg|19px|]]07:58, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

below are more specialized alternatives to the "anti-everything, but mostly anti warrior" jaguar sword melee mancer
anti offensive caster melee mancer

Uh... an axe and a sword attack? 132.203.83.38 08:27, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks fixed it :) Jagre 08:35, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * And where's the Deep Wound needed for axe rake? --[[Image:Kitty1.jpg|19px|]] (Talk) (Cont) (Cool) [[Image:Soft2.jpg|19px|]]11:58, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * dammit... i guess I'll just put dismember in there, or should I switch to sword, do you think? It's just that Disrupting chop is a superior interupt for this build than savage slash.

anti dervish melee mancer

Variants substitute Plague Touch in for vampiric gaze.

etc. if anyone is actually not annoyed i could go on...? i just think that melee mancer is a very strong counter build, the lifetap skills provide the survivability to make it a *closer to* front-line character - but once again just because you use a sword doesn't mean you are front line - any assassin knows this. Once again, the zealous sword PROVIDES SOME ENERGY MANAGEMENT! saying that the build has "no" or "zero" energy management is false - discuss whether or not it is ENOUGH for the CURRENT BUILD - not whether or not it "has" energy management because it does.
 * Just for clarification, you're saying that you don't have to be on the frontline ala assassin, in that you can jump to the frontline only when necessary (even though you have no speedboost/shadow step), but then you also cite a weapon that requires being on the frontline constantly hitting people as your energy management? --Theonemephisto 16:36, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

oh man.live with it please.im serious --<font color="Brown">Babbo <font color="Orange">Elvis 09:24, 19 March 2007 (CDT)