Talk:"Watch Yourself!"

Is this skill really called "Watch yourself!" with a lower-case Y? :o LordBiro/Talk 04:39, 5 Jun 2005 (EST)

Yes, all of the "Something yelled!" type skills use sentence capitalization.

Why does it say category: Shout when I cant see anything in the code? Blindness on me?? --Xeeron 05:39, 26 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * See Template:Skill New, the the "type" var. auto-categorises when you fill it out --Skuld &Dagger; 05:51, 26 Sep 2005 (EST)

This was previously not in the Warrior - Tactics Skills page. Added it there now.

Observation
Read the description of "Watch Yourself!". It says nothing about the user receiving the armor bonus. Has this been tested at all. I was using it in my Titan farming build and I did not see any difference at all. Chain Lightning was still doing around 30 and Shard Storm were stil doing around 20. Edit: This was with 15k Platemail Armor(85 AR), Ascalon Helm(80 AR), Dolyak Signet at +34 armor and Elemental Resistance which is +40 vs. Elemental Damage --Gares Redstorm 23:54, 13 March 2006 (CST)
 * That would be funny :p One of the most used farming skills and no-ones noticed/tested &mdash; Skuld  00:03, 14 March 2006 (CST)
 * The description is fairly clear. I don't play a warrior (ever- my only one was deleted when it was level 4), but I would be surprised if this skill affected the shouter. Shandy 00:06, 14 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, it definately does something for the user.
 * http://www.evilgreven.net/images/watch_yourself.jpg
 * http://www.evilgreven.net/images/watch_yourself2.jpg
 * -Evil_Greven 00:10, 14 March 2006 (CST)


 * I guess it's another poorly worded skill, then? Shandy 00:32, 14 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yep. Another one of those. Incidently, Dolyak Signet (+34), "Watch Yourself!", Defy Pain, and Dryder's Defenses (48 armor, though Elemental Resistance would be longer duration and 40 armor), Wyvern Armor (85), Ascalon Boots (-2 dmg) and a 16 armor shield make Lightning Orb feel like a kitty scratch:
 * http://www.evilgreven.net/images/watch_yourself3.jpg
 * -Evil_Greven 00:37, 14 March 2006 (CST)


 * Which is why Necromancers are now the new fad. Their armor-ignoring damage is ridiculous. It makes a Warrior seem like a kitty too. I think some balance is needed. --Karlos 05:08, 14 March 2006 (CST)
 * How fast do elementalists cut through cloth users when no one's around to interrupt them, though? Given that most of your targets aren't wearing warrior armor and using half their skill bar to boost their AL, I wouldn't say elementalists are gimped. --130.58 06:01, 14 March 2006 (CST)
 * Indeed, 'invincible' warriors have existed for ages, but they're absolutely useless in PvP. Nobody is going to attack a W/Mo during the fight, so we just leave him 'til the end and then elminate him slowly. Shandy 22:07, 23 March 2006 (CST)


 * They are gimped. Two words: Prot Spirit. It's a killer of nukage and spikage. Unstoppable too. The only way is to be able to put Well of the Profane on before the spike/nuke. Only way around Prot Spirit? Degen. Something eles are very poor at causing while mesmers, necros even rangers and warriors are much better at it. --Karlos 22:15, 23 March 2006 (CST)


 * Unstoppable might not be the best choice of words. A good Domination/Inspiration Mesmer can put a stop to any monk given some time. I don't play PvP, but I can stop a PvE monk from doing anything but attack in a minute. I'm sure PvP monks are just as predictable. Thats why I love being a mesmer, no one knows what you are doing or who you are targetting, until you unleash on them :D --Gares Redstorm 23:37, 23 March 2006 (CST)


 * An air spiker is still useful in PvP. Enchant removal is neccessary, but it's always going to be neccessary. Shandy 22:20, 23 March 2006 (CST)

New Description
There is a new description for this skill...idk when or why it happened but it now reads something like "All party members within earshot(ty anet for the technical term) gain +20 armor for [seconds]- Only a Shadow
 * Oops, thought I changed them all. I guess I missed this one, thanks.  The "within earshot" change was in the last large patch with skill balances or the one after.  --68.142.14.19 12:49, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Related
Saying ward harm and elements are related is a stretch. The formatting was also completely changed. Lastly, the template ended up listing WY itself, which is pretty silly even considering it's intended to be used in all the different skill pages. --Fyren 07:43, 27 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree this grouping of "related skills" can be discussed upon (actually that's why I have not yet updated the other skills of the group, I still need to go over the complete history of those pages and check all the related skills updates made by the community). For example, shared damage, percenntage damage reduction and armor bonus are different mechanisms (especially at lower levels, but also in many other manners).


 * About the include of "Watch Yourself" in the list, that is how templates do they work. I could remind you that be part of a bigger group is one of the feature of a wiki article. I could also do a complex template just for the sole purpose of this beautification (current article's name not showing in the list), just that I don't see necessity.
 * Actually, I like the way it is shown, as readers directly understand this skill is part of a related group that could be interesting to check (it's like the presentation of sections : you know where you are and of other existing pieces of the bigger view). --Leonim 09:33, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Nerfed
Ouch.... -Ichigo724 09:32, 1 December 2006 (CST)


 * Great :) &mdash; Skuld 09:54, 1 December 2006 (CST)


 * I'm still wondering as to why they changed it... was it so overpowered for W secondaries ? -Ichigo724 10:07, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * Paragons with the new earshot radius. You'll notice that at 11 (10+1, a common place to set your attributes), it's the same as the old version. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 11:18, 1 December 2006 (CST)

You said it! Ouch indeed, might have to swap this for "Never Give Up!" now instead. Or pump up tactics and take "Shields Up!" Neon 16:50, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * It wasn't exactly overpowered for secondaries, but a Paragon with a Furious spear could keep it up indefinitely in a fight. It's not really used for extra armor per se, it's just a management skill which happens to give a little bonus in return. Now that it's be slapped about a bit, it's still an energy management skill, just the added bonus is a little less effective, but the energy gain is all good. Now, if they changed Leadership to being "you gain 1 energy every 2 levels for every party member affected by a Paragon Shout, chant (etc)", then I'd be ditching it and looking for a new skill to fill the adrenaline gap - Patch of Celestia 04:06, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * I hate you anet, you nerfed my paragon and all my fav skills... Duncan Dragoon 16:52, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * This nerf has deepened my resolve to switch to WoW soon. I'm so pissed.Dark0805 23:02, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * You didn't come here complain when all the new shout rules (bigger range, triggering echoes) made "Watch Yourself!" ridiculously good. This is just evening it out. They nerf things to heck all the time in WoW, too, y'know. And I don't think you can even use skills you didn't put any points into. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 00:29, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Nerfed? I just started using this skill, so what was it like previously? Urock 22:59, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The added armor was 20 at any level of tactics. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:14, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * In my opinion, I actually like it better since the change, my tactics warrior adds 26 armor to the whole team instead of 20. --Deathwing 16:04, 10 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I use it for my Paragon, which at 9 Tactics, it gives more armor than a shield. And since Paragon's are ranged, I can combine with Frenzy to provide energy, which makes it able to be kept up continually AND its useful. I don't see the point of Paragon's equipping this skill then have it for nothing but energy. Its helped my party through some big battles. Urock 21:37, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Why F, when you can use Flail? Readem (talk *contribs ) 16:02, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

someone said previously here that he used 9 tactics with this skill - is it so big deal if you lose 3 armor? o_O -Force
 * No, but in doing so, he's not using those attribute points for anything else. But hey, Paragons in PvE are the epitome of damage reduction, so it doesn't really matter. --Kale Ironfist 08:34, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Changed again?! Major suckage! Charge is teh pwnzx now though :D --Progger 19:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's still good, if you can't charge 4 adren in 6 sec, u = phail. --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 19:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

need nf trainer
This skill needs the NF skill trainer. Xeon 04:57, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Notes Reference
" "Watch yourself" is a phrase from a song by Mystikal - "Shake that ass, but watch yourself!". " - Removed this since... well, do I have to explain? It makes no sense. Unless there's actual evidence that this is where the name comes from, that's just wild guessing that seems extremely off base to me. o_O Capcom 04:09, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yea, the skill name isn't a reference to anything specific I think, randomm name to suit what the skill does. -Ichigo724 11:44, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * This skill name is not related to any song, movie, catch phrase or slogan whatsoever. Its name is a direct link to what it does. As with many many skills, it is not derived from anything famous. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Puk (contribs).
 * Anything people say can be reference to something ^^ --Aozora [[Image:aozora.png]] 03:58, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * But is usually isn't. The Hobo 05:15, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Perhaps the most ridiculous attempt at revealing a reference ever. It made me laugh when I heard the song in my head; the idea that ANet would base the skill off of that song is ludicrous. (no, that word is not a reference to Ludacris)--Mafaraxas 06:14, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Personally, whenever I use WY, I always have that song get stuck in my head...167.206.248.12 15:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not from the song. Just think about it, when you're at work or doing something dangerous people will always say 'becareful, watch yourself' and all those fun colloquialism. 99.242.129.186 17:28, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Nerf
Oh great...they nerfed GtFE so i would assume to go back here for energy...and then this was nerfed to hell...ah i remember back in the good old days where paragons actually used to be good...and was then nerfed like a week after Nightfall came out...yeah, those were the good old days...--Manbeast15 05:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Used to be good? Paragons are still brokenly strong, even after all these nerfs. They should have done this before Nightfall went live. --Kale Ironfist 07:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't bother Kale, there are far too many nitwits to teach. --Blue.rellik 07:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

i would rather them just remove paragons from the game
than nerf warriors while balancing paraway

or even better yet, make leadership only apply to paragon shouts.


 * Ever heard of the fact you can get much more than 4 strikes of adren in 6 seconds? --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 18:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

lol
3/6/08 = fail --Shadowcrest  20:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

you mean today's update? sure, it rock now... useless. too much recharge, not enoughe benefits. just fonna remove it from my heroes.. guigolum 20:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Did Izzy get fired for this? I sure hope so..He's made some bad calls but wtf..This was never overpowered I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about it..Seriously what the hell was he thinking?
 * I'm sure there's a good reason (IMO it sucks) RT 20:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I SO agree with you Shadowcrest. I hope some heads are rolling at ANet right now!!!-- Taki Fujiko  20:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's to deliver a kick in the teeth to the FoW chest runnesr, y'know, when traversing the spider cavers. Yikey ∞  20:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shields up?

Even with the recharge this pluse "Save Yourselves!" and "There is nothing to fear!" could give a party a considerable boost in armor making them very, very long lasting in PvE. Not sure about pvp though cause since the last update that added the recharge, I have not seen this used - Kalle Damos
 * This won't stop paragons spamming it, it'll just be weaker. Not that is was uber-1337 in the first place. --Shadowcrest  20:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * People seem to forget this is a WARRIOR skill maybe Anet should consider warriors before they nerf it because of paragons...
 * Oh noes! The 3 aforementioned skills would always = win for my paragon. How will I survive? /pout Kil5t3lr 21:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay guys nao. I'll play the izzy and show you why this skill is PERFECTLY balanced in comparison to all the other skills such as Heaven's Delight! See, nao, guyz. This can be spammed every eight seconds. So u see it giveth them liek 20 armor (~35% reduction) from dose damages for liek three times every eight seconds. Say they take on average 30 damage for each of dose damagez. So dat means dey take 20 damages instead! Dis means dey get saved liek 10 hp. Nao u c, some people will be under dose pressures and will take all three, while some will take none. So 10*3 = 30 per wy, and dere r certainly 8 party membars - but not all of dem take dose damages. So say it's 5, and 30*5=150 every 8 seconds, or 300 every ~15 seconds assuming all in earshot. Nao c heaven's delight, mirite, dey get healed for liek 50 hps. 50 * 8 = 400 every 15 seconds! But u c, dat wy givth u nrg!!1111`` and it is free to cast!!111`` so as u can cleerly c dis skeel is perfectly balanced. &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 21:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Reading that whole explanation was more annoying than the nerf. --70.58.198.147 03:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I deem this an "OMGWTF" nerf...the only use it has now is to fuel Paragon energy. 76.89.81.150 01:11, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I gain more energy through spamming "SF!" anyway. As long as they don't nerf that, I have a reason to play my Paragon. -Mike 03:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Its only a matter of time before they do that too :P--[[Image:vik.PNG]] ( √ iktor ) 09:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ends after 3 attacks, hmmm. Crap, if you consider how many PvE mobs constantly wand/hit their targets. Even if it doesn't end for spells/other skills... still, meh. This skill is fail now. But on the bright side, you don't have to drag this along with you wile you're playing P/W in PvE -> More adrenaline for "Save Yourselves!". J Striker 12:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got to say, changing wy like this is an odd move. It seems counter-intuitive to rework a warrior skill into what looks exactly like a paragon skill, because it's being overused by paragons. This change doesn't really affect the paragon use of it at all, while crippling any warrior use. Ezekiel  [Talk]  14:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You might get 4 seconds of this on your party members before it ends, in that time, the skill will be recharging and you won't be able to use it again for another couple seconds. Both "Watch Yourself!" and "Shields Up!" have become pretty useless. -Mike 14:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, this nerf was unnecessary. You need it at level 12 for it to even last for 3 attacks, I mainly used this as a quick armor boost at Tactics 10 or 11. I fail to see how this skill was too powerful, as it clearly is pretty useless now. Hmm it does somewhat annoy Gladiator farming a bit, but that's still very doable. Nah, this skill will fade into obscurity now... Except as forementioned Paragon energy management. PuppetX 17:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got a simple enough fix for this skill. Undo the last nerf, and just move the freaking thing into Strength attribute.  No more Paragon abuse, and Warriors can still make full use out of it. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] Sk8  (T)  (C)  17:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As I was reading this from the top I thought the same exact thing. Darn, you beat me to it! Move the skill to the strength attrb. They did it with other skills in this update, why not this one. I completely understand the idea behind nerfing it for paragons, but at the same time, this was a pretty good all around skill that most Warriors used. Now it just sucks...-Warior kronos 23:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think they'll move it because the whole point of the Tactics Attribute was defensive strategy, which they now seem to offer none to their allies. Tactics has now become a self-maintaining attribute because the defensive skills that directly affected other allies are no longer worth a skill slot. After this update, everyone should get used to seeing a lot less P/Ws out there, especially in PvP. I actually never really used "WY!" or "SU!" because I'm a PvE player, and I've been using "Save Yourselves!" instead, but the impact on PvP Paragons could be one of the worst things that could ever happen. -24.109.2.121 23:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

While moving it to strength and undoing the update would work at making it useful again, I think it would also change how it is used. (Change in a better way than the current nerf) You get very different builds for warriors if you focus on strength or tactics. In anycase, it's useless now to warriors, still fine for paragons, wouldn't be unbalanced if moved to strength, and would promote some new builds in strength. The downside is that this was one of the most common tactics skills, thematically it's a tactics skill, and with the recent change to Lion's Comfort tactics would become a less worthwhile investment. Ezekiel  [Talk]  01:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Anet ought to revert WY back to the best it ever was, and then make it elite. Problems solved. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:00, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If they made it Elite, it would have to be closer to "Save Yourselves!" lol -Mike 02:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I would like to see this as a targeted shout, with a higher bonus armour. makes sense flavour-wise. would also make it more skill rewarding, rather than hit on r/c.Sepia 21:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Under most normal (non-gimmick) builds, you'd only have enough points in Tactics to protect yourself from two attacks. Two attacks is less than one second when you're under focused fire and when you need it most. To be honest, I'm surprised that this skill hasn't gotten the LAME tag on it. This skill is pretty much gone from any Warrior primaries and it's now just some e-management skill for Paragon shout spammers. 71.145.164.7 00:16, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * At 9 tactics, it reduces damage by about 25% for the next two hits for each party member. If half of the party (of eight) takes those two hits, it effectively negates two hits worth of damage.  Make it 12 tactics, and if half of the party takes those hits, you've now negated about four hits worth of damage.  Depending on what you're fighting, that can be quite a bit.  It's not an instant-win skill, but it's hardly useless.  Indeed, as party defense skills go, it's sometimes still the best that warriors get. Quizzical 05:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I really did love this skill and I'll repeat myself in saying that I think it's a really really bad idea to change skills so that they become only interesting enough if you bring higher attribute levels (atleast 9, preffered 12+). WY! for the primary warrior has become useless since it does not aid the tanking role (better invest the skill slot in Endure Pain to be able to absorb those two to three hits...............................) It's STILL useful for Paragons as energy management and the arguments of Quizzical. So what this nerf did was backfire it's intention (if Paragons was the intention). Skill wasn't overpowered at all, in PvP both parties can take a Watch Yourself-er ANYWAY and there's plenty of armor-ignoring damage sources too. Besides the armor boost isn't that much to begin with, it certainly doesn't COMPLETELY throw any match off balance anyhow. Seems someone just doesn't like the Tactics attribute and biased towards Strength. Too bad this person is a skill balancer... SO :P And that's all I have to say about it. PuppetX 06:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A compromise would be great. I think they should reduce the recharge, augment the adrenaline cost by a little (6Adrenaline, 1-2 sec Recharge) and make it last for several more attacks (1 at 0 Tactics, 2 at 3 Tactics, 3 at 6 Tactics, 4 at 9 Tactics, 5 at 12 Tactics and 6 at 15 Tactics.) -Mike 11:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Anyone know how do the mechanics of the skill work now? Such as do the incoming attacks need to hit? Do spells affect the counter?
 * Well, you could try testing it at the Isle of the Nameless with the Master of Lightning. -Mike 19:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Other good Tactics skills?
I don't play Paras in PvE, so what exactly am I putting points into Tactics for anymore? Everything else under Tactics either a) has a prohibitive recharge time  b) ends when I do anything useful  c) is elite or  d) more than one of the above. Time to shelve Tactics altogether? Scrap all my decent Tactics shields? Xira Arien 22:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)