Talk:Inscription/Archive1

--71.113.3.166 19:42, 24 February 2007 (CST)Please, Let me know if this post is against copy rights or not, the information was posted in a magazine, so is of public domain, but I ignore if it a summary of it is against any international copy rights.

Thank You.


 * Well, if you used your own words to summarize this (assuming you didn't cut and paste that sentence) and the entire article wasn't about this change, it's fair use. But I think the wiki decided to not use info from magazines anyway?  --Fyren 15:08, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

Big Deal with a capital B
This is huge. One will be able to buy a max staff in Kaineng, salvage the inscription, and put it on any skin they fancy. No more exorbitant costs for perfect zodiac staves. Or, you could craft a perfect Katana in the end-game of Factions, and put the +5 energy on any sword. This may be one of the hugest things to hit the player economy. --Tisiphone 14:26, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
 * AFAIK, they haven't changed being unable to salvage collector/crafter weapons... DKS01 17:02, 1 November 2006 (CST)
 * The whole reason behind this is because Anet themselves are trying to make a game based of skill, not how much you play or how much money you have. This will certainly lower the price of perfect weapons. This will bring it more to a level of "Ok, our gear is the same, now, lets see who's better". The price of rare skins will still be expensive, but not near as expensive as they are now. I see this as a good thing because, lets say someone just started playing GW, they find a max dmg weapon, a non-max damage wep with a 20/20 sundering, and a non-max with 15^50. Instead of possibly losing the 20/20 sundering, and having to pay 25K+(which they wont have cause there new), they will be able to put the sundering on the max weapon. Same goes for the 15^50, they dont need to buy a max dmg weapon with 15^50(which can be expensive depending on the weapon). They can simply make their own max dmg 15^50 20/20 sundering, instead of having to pay 50K+ that they dont have. This mainly affects us who have been here for awhile because it means all the stuff we paid good money for are now nearly worthless. Though when we make new characters, we will get equivilent weapons for no more than 10K or so. Besides, I wouldnt want to buy 80K+ worth of upgrades to give my hero's decent weapons. --Mwpeck 11:00, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Actually they mentioned that PVE inscriptions are not all that common, didnt they? -Anooneemiss 22:32, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd also like to point out that only weapons found in NF can have inscriptions, and not all crafter weapons in NF are inscribable. I have not noticed a big drop in weapon pricing probably because there are certain weapons that still don't drop as inscribable, and most people with NF use heroes, which means more mouths to feed/hands to fill with weapons. StatMan 15:02, 29 December 2006 (CST)

"To the Pain!"
There's been plenty of The Princess Bride references. I love it. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Could be a reference to a Nonpoint album released around the same time as Nightfall. Actellim 08:38, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * There's plenty of TPB references in the game, this one is most likely one as well. If Anet released an inscription called "I'll Be Back" and someone released an album called that at around the same time, would you honestly think the reference was to that album and NOT the quote from Terminator(and numerous other Arnold movies)? Or if there was an inscription "Say hello to my little friend" and an album that came out by that name, would you really think the song referred to the album and not the Scarface quote?


 * The point remains, until we have more conclusive proof, we should at least list it as a viable option. To do otherwise is limiting our distribution of information, since there is no evidence supporting one over the other; suggesting there is would be an inductive argument, with weak premesis. If you can present me with a deductive argument, or an inductive argument with reasonable premesis, I would more seriously considor it's removal. Actellim 20:43, 8 March 2007 (CST)


 * I didn't say to remove it, I simply said to suggest that it might reference a band nobody really cares about, rather than referencing a movie that's already clearly well liked by someone on the dev team(which would be evidence supporting it as the most likely reference, BTW), was moronic. DKS01 20:55, 8 March 2007 (CST)


 * There are other references to bands nobody really cares about in the inscriptions as well, for example "Sleep Now in the Fire." You have no evidence to support that a dev liked The Princess Bride over a different band nobody cares about (also, if you read my previous post, I made a note of your evidence and why it was weak). Again, this is must my $.02. Actellim 08:36, 9 March 2007 (CST)


 * There are other TPB references in game though, which would seem to say there's at least one TPB fan on the dev team(or a guy who's really good at grabbing random quotes). As for the inscription, I'm not certain Sleep Now...is a reference to the song either, but Rage Against the Machine ARE a much more well established band than Nonpoint, which makes it a bit more likely. For "bands that nobody cares about" comparisons, RATM's second and third studio albums both entered the Billboard top 100 chart at number ONE and have gone multiplatinum(ie, 2+ million copies sold), Nonpoint's highest Billboard entry to date has been #52 and haven't even hit gold(500k sold) status yet. Not to debate the validity of either band(I dislike both of them personally) and not to say popularity is a sign of quality(most music I listen to doesn't have nearly the fanbase and recognition even Nonpoint has), but in terms of general appeal, recognition, and popularity, RATM clearly trump Nonpoint. And hey, if someone wants to think To the Pain is a reference to them it's their choice(like I said, I didn't say to remove the note), but I still think the odds of it being a reference to them rather than TPB are about 1000 to 1. Likewise, if they add an inscription "Great Balls of Fire" I'm going to assume it's a reference to the Jerry Lee Lewis song rather than a reference to Stephen Schneider's album "Great Balls of Fire Island" DKS01 09:23, 9 March 2007 (CST)

Use
Can inscriptions be applied to any non-green weapon or offhand item of the appropriate type? The update notes mentioned blank inscription slots. If they can only be applied to slotted items, does salvageing an incsiption without destroying an item free up the slot? Are inherent mods on existing weapons considered inscriptions? -- Gordon Ecker 04:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * An item needs to have a blank inscription slot in order to have an inscription applied to it. Salvaging an inscription from an item does indeed open up a free slot for another inscription.  The inherent mods on Tyrian and Canthan items are not considered inscriptions.  Only items from Elona will be inscribable, and as far as I understand, the inherent mod isn't always an inscription. Perceptes 10:33, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

66.91.196.20 02:09, 3 May 2007 (CDT)I think it'd be awesome if they made an inscription called "Do You Know Who Ate All The Doughnuts?", which gave -1 to all attributes, and it's counter-part would be called "I Ate All The Doughnuts", and it would give +1 to all attributes. Is good, HIGH FIVE!
 * LOL - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 21:06, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

Now Avaliable
Inscriptions are now avaliable to attack to new weapons and such for your pvp chars!!! Press J to open up pvp screen

Inscriptions duplcates
Inscriptions is also at Weapon upgrade, they both have lists but only one should do this. Xeon 09:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

"Leaf on the Wind"
lol, just found this one today Armor +x vs Cold Damage. its a reference to Serenety the movie (based on the show Firefly). The pilot of the ship would say that whenever things got difficult. I just watched it last night, then got the drop this morning lol.

Range or Max?
Do we want to list the maximum value for each inscription, or the range of values it can carry? - Lord Ehzed 18:59, 28 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I think we should list the range. It gives more information without cluttering the page to much.- Astrael 08:44, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Merge proposal
Content is redundant to Weapon_upgrade - for consistency, this article should redirect to that article. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Barek (talk &bull; contribs) 19:24, October 28, 2006 (CDT).
 * I would be fine with merging this with the Weapon Upgrade article. However, I think that Inscriptions could deserve their own article, and would argue that we could pull the inscriptions out of Weapon_upgrades. Whichever happens, let's just make sure the two are synced first. - Lord Ehzed 23:19, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I think the inscriptions should have a seperate page because it looks like it will be a long list and it will clutter up the weapons upgrade page. 203.134.172.183 03:34, 29 October 2006 (CST)
 * I'm fine with either merging this content over to the weapon upgrade article, or pulling that content and merging it in here. I just don't think we should maintain both at the same time, hard to keep edits in sync when they're maintained in two places at once. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:40, 29 October 2006 (CST)
 * I think there is well enough content in inscription to warrant a separate article. The weapon upgrade article is already getting too big even without all the inscriptions. After all, inscriptions replace weapon modifiers, and we have a separate article for those too! --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:28, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * Whatever we do, and whereever we put the result in the end, we must stop maintaining the same table twice in the wiki, right now! For a temporary solution I'll merge the two tables in inscription for now, where it should be maintained until we've decided where to put it. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:58, 9 November 2006 (CST)
 * THe solutions is easy. Inscriptions are an hybrid of modifiers and upgrades they are not like any of them, but something different. They should have their own page. Just a 'related articles' in modifiers and weapon upgrades directing to 'inscriptions' should be enough. Mithran 08:41, 12 November 2006 (CST)
 * After the removal of the inscription part in weapon upgrades and the curent state of this article, I think a merge is not longer needed and just removed the proposal.Balwin 12:03, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Selling
So whats the best way to get cash for inscription? The only traders I've found that buy them are only offering 25gp! PsyDoll 03:39, 6 November 2006 (CST)
 * They don't hae their own NPC merchant like runes or dyes. You must sell them to other players. If you want to sell them to merchants, identify them first. Like runes, once identified they'll be sold for much more cash. Mithran 09:22, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I havn't noticed a change in price for an incription: none item as opposed to an inscribed item (other than show me the money), this could be valuable information for sell price of items and inscriptions (usually, to make fast money in a low level area, I salvage off the inscription due to it always selling for 25 gold)


 * I think I saw somewhere that if you ID it the value goes up, at least a little. Can't get on GW to test it right now, though. --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)


 * If the increase in value is really that minimal, is it worth the cost of using an ID kit? Unless the increase is over 4g, you're just wasting gold. --Bonjela 23:27, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Articles for individual inscriptions
Somebody created Show me the Money!. We need to decide whether we want individual articles for each inscription or not. On one hand it would make it easier to refer to them, like we've done with weapon upgrades, for example an Axe Grip of Warding. On the other hand there is a high degree of redundancy, and an overview article would avoid that. Discuss. -- 08:40, 8 November 2006 (CST)
 * I reckon we keep this as an overview and create individual articles for all the inscriptions. It's not like it hurts having the extra pages. --NieA7 10:27, 8 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, they might hurt, because redundancy always means double maintainance work! Anyway, as a test I've created a template and applied it to Forget Me Not. Have a look and comment. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:41, 9 November 2006 (CST)
 * My prefered solution is having one article and make each name a redirect there. What I am very sceptical about is having a "template creep" that introduces templates into more and more articles. There are some good reasons to use templates for our skill pages, but dont forget that there is the big disadvantage of becomming less editable. --Xeeron 04:29, 9 November 2006 (CST)
 * Inscriptions are less likely to be referenced/edited than skills I would've thought. If this main list is maintained along similar lines to the unique items by campaign list I don't think it would cause any major problems. Basically I don't see why inscriptions should be treated differently than weapon mods - they all get their own pages so inscriptions should too. --NieA7 04:37, 9 November 2006 (CST)
 * I have not forgotten that, and I won't in future. Yes, a template makes the article less editable, but it also makes maintainance a lot easier. And the new parser code is so flexible that pretty much every variation of content can be covered. A change that can be done with one change of the template would otherwise require a crusade, editing each and every article that uses the template. For example in case of the BeastInfo template that's several hundred! I wish we had put auto-categorization into the beastinfo template. That would have saved Ab.Er.Rant several WEEKS of work! Anyway, this is not the place to discuss the general use of templates. If in the case of Inscriptions a majority thinks that we're better off without a template, I'll concurr. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:49, 9 November 2006 (CST)
 * With your template it is very easy and simple to use for creating a little article. I tried it with I Can See Clearly Now and I would vote to use the template and would create some more articles, if there is a general vote for this template Balwin 10:22, 11 November 2006 (CST)


 * I think that CERTAIN inscriptions most certainly DO merit their OWN pages. PRIME examples:
 * "Show me the money!" ~ Add to an unwanted gold item, to increase the price a merchant pays. Perhaps a price increase correlation will be found by adding this inscription... Eg. It increases the original value by 20%...
 * "Measure for Measure" ~ Add to increase the chance of salvaging a jewel from certain types of weapons. Now that jewels are used to make Vabbian Armor, people should know of ANY trick/tip to acquire more jewels. Also, experiments need to be done to find out if this inscription will increase the chance of a rare materials being salvaged from other items.  Frostty1 06:31, 17 November 2006 (CST)


 * I don't see the value of an individual article for each one. For reference, it's much easier to have them all centralised - and there's not enough being said on the individual page to justify it not being conveniently located here.  We use central articles and redirects from the individual names for several other elements within the game, I see no reason to do inscriptions any differently. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:50, 6 December 2006 (CST)


 * One article with a bunch of redirects. --Fyren 10:58, 6 December 2006 (CST)


 * Pages for each one consisting of a redirect to the appropriate section of this page? Or would that be too many redirect pages? --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Revisist multiple article
Several articles were created today for each inscription - my understanding was that we were going to handle this much like we do the individual keys, chests, runes, and insignia (ex: Shiverpeak Key, Shiverpeak Chest, Vigor, and Radiant) - they would be redirects to this central article. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:31, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * OK, before I create more sensless article I stop. :) But a page with a lot of links to redirects to the page itself, would not make a lot of sense to me either. If we have seperated articles, one have all information (including travia or anything else) on one view. And, if we have a category for inscriptions, someone could see all in alphabetical order (I like the order of the table right now, but there were some people who prefer the old order).Balwin 13:44, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * The links weren't there until just one or two edits ago, and should be removed. That eliminates the problem the article having links to redirects to itself. A category listing can exist with or without redirects, so isn't relavent.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:46, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I would like such small articles, were all information are packed into a very reader friedly form (which were given by the template by Teris L), even all the information are already in the table. So for me the additional articles are not superfluously, but maybe thats just me.Balwin 13:56, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Inscriptions on FoW and Underworld items?
I haven't been to either of these areas since the Nightfall update, so I don't know if the inscription system applies to items dropped in the Underworld and in the Fissure of Woe. I think it might be the case because these areas are accessible to Nightfall-only players. Does anybody have information regarding this? --Funky Jah 21:40, 15 November 2006 (CST)
 * Well after a few runs in the Underworld, it seems that items dropped there does not have any salvageable inscription, would be worth noticing that in the article. --Funky Jah 08:04, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * I think that it depends on how you get to the Underworld. For example, if you access through Prophecies via ToA, then you get Prophecies drops.  If you get to it via Nightfall, you get Nightfall drops.  I know some weapons are inscribable because I have an inscribed long sword, and long swords do not drop in the Nightfall campaign, except in FoW and UW StatMan 10:36, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well I jsut tried it and didnt get any inscription, I got 2 gold weapons and some purple and none had inscription.&mdash; ├ A ratak  ┤  21:46, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've had a long sword (long sword skin) drop in Istan. - BeXoR  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 21:49, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * Did you enter the underworld from Chantry of Secrets? I might be wrong about the whole thing.

Order of the inscriptions within the table
Currently all inscriptions are ordered strictly alphabetically. I would suggest additionally to group them by effect and only within these groups alphabetically. Especially if you look at inscriptions for focus items and shields, you see 'Reduces condition by 20%' or 'Armor +x (vs. damage type)' etc. I think grouping within such groups will give a better overview. What do you think? Balwin 16:20, 16 November 2006 (CST)
 * I agree, that would provide another good overview, but it depends on what you search. I suggest a second table for such grouping. Maybe on a little extra page, or something. --Ineluki [[Image:"Coward!".jpg|25px]] 06:12, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * I frequently use this page to look up the ranges of the different modiers. Non-alphabetical order would make that a lot more difficult. However, I can see the advantage of it for someone who uses the list to build an ideal weapon/offhand combination. What about a grid that lists "Type" across the top, and "Effect" down the side? On another topic, I wonder if each campaign will introduce more inscriptions, or if this is pretty much it - it makes a difference for maintaining edits.... - Lord Ehzed 09:20, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * I, too, agree that Inscriptions should be sorted by effect before alphabet. I plan to do a redesign/reformatting of the table anyway. I'll change the sort order in the process. I'll also create individual articles for each inscription to allow for categorization. This should allow wiki users to look for inscriptions both by effect and by alphabet. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:02, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * Please see User:Tetris L/Sandbox/Inscription for a table format that is sorted by effect, in a kind of tree structure, instead of alphabet. A few effects (HSR/HCT, attribute +1, ...) are missing, and the trivia column isn't filled in yet. That is something I'll add if a few people have posted their thoughts. Do you like the new structure better than the old one or prefer the old simple list? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Definitely prefer it. It takes a couple of seconds to understand, but the current table is so long it's become unwieldy and difficult to use. --NieA7 10:13, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * I've done some more changes about my draft, mostly for the pop culture references. Please review and comment. If nobody objects, I'll copy my new version over the old version tomorrow. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:08, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * I preferred the previous example with the references in the table itself, but I'm guessing when you put all of them in it mucked up the spacing? --NieA7 08:41, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, indeed it does. Also, I think such kind of reference belongs in a footnote rather than the table itself, as it is not directly relevant. Anyway ... with nobody speaking up against it I'll copy my draft over to the article, overwriting the old version. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:33, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thinking about it, I reckon it'd look better if the "Item type: Inscribable ..." column was switched from being last to being first. The kind of thing it can be attached to is fundamental to an inscription, so knowing where it goes is normally the first thing I'd want to know. --NieA7 10:13, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Bows, staves, etc.
These weapons should accept two inscriptions, right? Bows always had two built-in modifiers, so do they come with two inscription slots? Honest Abe (24.50.118.217) 19:00, 23 December 2006 (CST)


 * Bows never had two built-in mods, they're like daggers. Staves and such come with one inherent mod and one inscription slot. --Armond Warblade (talk) 14:23, 27 December 2006 (CST)

inscription (and wand wrap too) from chap1
I was out solo farming titans post nightfall in kryta. I got a gold cesta (wand) and it had an insciption AND a wand wrapping, both i salvaged. was a 15% while enchanted inscription and a memory wrap 20%.  :: S oqed Hozi ::  08:40, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * New update? They didn't do that a couple days ago when I was farming hydras. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Damage modifier inscriptions and spells
I'm not sure how much use there would be in putting a damage modifier on a wand, IF that modifier didn't apply to spells. This may just be wishful thinking, but does putting a damage inscription on a wand lend it's damage bonus to spells? -- Imbril Shadowfire  20:49, 14 January 2007 (CST)


 * Probably wishful thinking, but I would love to see some test results. 15% of a Rodgort's Invocation is a lot of bonus damage. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * Do damage inscriptions trigger on Attacks, for example, when I use galrath slash, do I get a +15% on the 42 damage? StatMan 23:58, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Malus
I understand what Malus means, and it's perfectly correct, but should we change it to something a little more... accessible? Again, doesn't matter much to me, but layman's terms might be a better choice. -- Imbril Shadowfire  18:33, 16 January 2007 (CST)


 * Make link to Malus, which is (or should be) a redirect page? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * What is a malus, other than an apple tree? - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 11:44, 8 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Give or take it's means something like "at the cost of.." or side-effect. That help peeps --Majikthise 11:15, 13 May 2007
 * I don't think it's necessary to change this word. The prefix "mal" should already strike most readers as having negative connotations, since it appears in everyday words like "malpractice" or "malnutrition", and appears in the article right next to more obvious indicators like "-5 energy" anyway. Anyone who still can't figure it out will probably benefit from looking it up in the dictionary themselves. --Bonjela 11:08, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

Redirects...
I think this is now officially the page with the most articles redirecting to it. >< Entropy 18:37, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * It may have managed to even surpass Key and Chest ... --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:44, 16 January 2007 (CST)


 * And? It's the page with the greatest number of individual things that people will search for when they come to the wiki. I know I've been wishing I could go around linking things to Radiant or Guided by Fate (check spelling/capitalization/whatever). On a related note, can we get these things to link to their specific part in the article (for example, Radiant redirecting to the table for armor insignias)? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * I agree. It's rather frustrating to click on a specific inscription for the purpose of finding its property and instead come to this large, generic page. --Bonjela 15:25, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

Too Much Information
There is a song by Quiet Riot that goes by that name, too, on the album Alive and Well. Just to bring that up, since Wikipedia doesn't have any links to it on the disambiguation page. >_> ArcaneApostle 09:17, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * Which came first, the song by QR or the song by Duran Duran? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Veagence is Mine
This is also used in Monty Python And the Holy Grail, during the fight with the Black Knight.
 * Sorry wasn't logged in --P.hilling 08:26, 28 January 2007 (CST)
 * OK my memory isn't as good as it used to be.. Mis-remembering "Victory Is Mine!" --P.hilling 05:29, 29 January 2007 (CST)

"Dance with Death"
Why was it concluded this was a Sword of Truth reference? There are a few movies and songs with the same title.
 * Find a reference before the date of publication and it can be changed. - BeXoR  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 00:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)

"Strength and Honor"
There appears to be a bug with the "Strength and Honor" inscription. Each time you ID an item with the inscription, it will unlock it. This means that if you have a 15% version and you ID a 13%, you can now only use the 13% once in PvP. --EchoingZen 19:43, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Hmm, I can't say i've seen the same issue. I ID'd a 12% this morning and can still use the 15% for pvp equip. -- (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Interesting... I just ID'd another one, and it ID'd fine. I'm pretty sure I'm not making this up, but its seeming thats the case. I'm gonna see if I can't do some more testing. --EchoingZen 20:57, 24 February 2007 (CST)

I am having the same problem, except it resets occasionally back to 10%. I would like to figure this out. Soulcatcher 20:51, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Teh pop culture sucks
That list is pitiful. Removing it entirely and starting over would be the best bet (seriously, I would bet two sets of FoW that "I Can See Clearly Now" is *not* a reference to an R Kelly song). '"Knowing is Half the Battle" was quoted at the end of every episode of GI Joe' is bull, that phrase is older than GI Joe... '"Life is Pain" is likely a reference to the Princess Bride (or Buddha, take your pick).' C'mon. That's just sad. We're a documentation site, and listing small asides of trivia is fine (like if X boss is named after Y famous PvPer) but really now... -Auron  08:03, 13 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The problem with that is, it's impossible to determine what references were intended, since the developers never released an official list; therefore we have to list all possible references or none at all, it doesn't make sense to list a reference because one person thinks that's a more popular reference... the devs are gamers, just becuase something's more popular doesn't mean that's necissaraly where they got it from.Actellim 18:42, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I should've argued against these more strongly when they first started popping up. What it comes down to is that the majority of pop-culture references are speculation - as there's nothing official from ArenaNet for most of the references on this and other articles (I recall a handful being mentioned in passing - I think it was by The Scribe, but may have been Gaile Gray).  As they're speculation, they really belong more on talk pages or on sub-pages rather than in the articles.  But, I haven't had the energy to try to push a proposal and then to lead a clean-up crusade. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:47, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * On most pages it's not too much of a problem to have two or three references to a specific item, but here - this is too much. The references just keep getting added and added without any sort of criteria and soon it seems the references will be longer than the article itself. As a matter of keeping things accurate, I would suggest we remove the section completely, as, like those above have said, no one can know for sure what the devs were thinking when they came up with the names. I thought speculation wasn't allowed on the wiki. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  18:58, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with Bexor, since it is speculation it should probably be wholly removed or moved to a proper page independant of this one.Actellim 21:25, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Heh yeah I think seeing a list of them all in once place really shows how bad they are! Some seem like they're "correct" some are interesting but most just look like stupid guesses where someone's attempted to make a connection between their favourite singer and an inscription! On articles I don't mind them so much though. --Xasxas256 23:03, 13 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The problem now is that most of the inscriptions have a "ref" number that points to the now removed notes section. I can't stay, anyone else have time to clean this up? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:16, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeh I'll fix it as soon as I can. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 23:44, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow I fail at coding. >.> I'll revert it back, and someone who knows how can remove it entirely. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 00:31, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Cleaned up now. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:27, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok, i've added why people should stop making the Trivia links. hopefully this will help you guys a bit.-- DBZVelena 20:40, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Barek, I have an idea. If a page or a section of a page is being vandalised with stupid shit, why not delete only the vandalism, and moderate the page, instead of deleting the whole affected section?

I agree that it sucked, but the pop culture references that are correct are valid information. The princess bride references in particular are not speculation, because they form a pattern throughout the rest of the game. If not most, then many of the references have a definite source, so why were those deleted?

The fact that something hasn't been confirmed by Anet doesn't make it speculation or false and random stupidity. If trivia belongs on article pages for missions and dialogue, it certainly belongs here, too.

I put back the ones that are certain, and the princess bride ones. You can lock it, if you want. um, like a rolling stone is not original. don't call it a comeback probably is, but it's stupid. I deleted all the really pointless ones, and the seinfeld ones. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.17.252 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:53, March 20, 2007 (CDT).


 * I'm not the one who removed them - that was done based on community discussion. They should only be added back if further discussion results in agreement to add back even a partial list. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * oh, ok. well, this is a complete rewrite, more or less, so what are the problems with this version, specifically?  (It's not really long, it's not full of nu-metal bands and seinfeld references, etc.)
 * plus I want people to click on the links (swift as the wind and forget me not are pretty good XD)


 * The Seinfeld references are just as relevant as several already listed there. You may not like them, but if you're gonna accept "Sleep Now In the Fire" as a RATM reference you can't very well argue against "Serenity Now!" and "Master of My Domain" as NOT being Seinfeld references. And just cause some anonymous jackass doesn't like them doesn't mean they don't belong, mmkay? DKS01 22:31, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Go fuck yourself I mean, I respectfully disagree with you. "Master of My Domain" predates Seinfeld, it's a quote from something else, and it's as simple as that.
 * Do a quick Google search on "Master of my Domain" and see how many of the links that come up, including the first several, all take you to a Seinfeld page compared to anything else. Then see how many you can find from sources predating Seinfeld. In fact, the first 8 pages of queries(I got bored of looking after going that far) almost ALL either refer to Seinfeld or a fairly recent program for Macs. Oh, and somebody probably said "show me the money" before it was in Jerry McGuire too, but try arguing that's not what it's a reference to. GG. DKS01 01:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Re-added trivia
Note: the trivia section was first re-added here as an inclusion, then copied over in entirety from the included source. A delete tag had been added to it there, and the following comments posted in the talk page regarding deletion. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:46, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * This was moved here and cleaned up as it was decided on Talk:Inscription that this trivia shouldn't be on the article page. User:72.139.17.252 still wants to add this stuff there and thinks that the stuff isn't too far fetched.
 * PThe stuff here looks pretty ok to me, although there are some questionable lines. Some of those are just too hard to believe. I would like other opinnions on this. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 16:46, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * My problem with restoring this is that there are no guidelines on what is and what is not an acceptable threshold for inclusion here. For instance, the author claims that this list leaves out "all the really pointless ones, and the seinfeld ones"; but other authors could likely view several of those as being just as legitimate as these.  The problem is that it's very subjective.  My opinion is that until a deffinition of what qualifies for inclusion can be agreed upon, for now these should be left out of the Inscription article entirely. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * This will get longer than the previous section in a shorter time. Also, why doesn't the anon author like Seinfeld? Also, http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Nonpoint/dp/B000BKDNVC Do eet! --Ishmaeel 16:56, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * What's with the "Do eet" today? --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   17:02, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just a tribute to the random new users who barge in the door, are all over the place, and demand that things be done their way. Nice link, BTW.--Ishmaeel 17:04, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Indeed. The definition for inclusion is quotes that have a confirmed original cite (by me, in this case), or are from the princess bride (as above).  I died a little inside deleting He-Man, and Blazing Saddles is commented out.  But you're right, if you include he-man, then you have to include warhammer, and if you include warhammer, then you have to include...well, that, and everything else.
 * And that, basically, was why the section was axed in the first place. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 00:57, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Right, so the definition is clearly defined.
 * Personally, I don't view it as clearly defined - and think the section should be purged permanently as it's just a magnet for people to allow it to bloat again. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:51, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think the requirements for adding a reference are clearly defined, and feel the entire section should be removed until we can find an effective way of defining our subjective experiences as to combine them into an objective secion; because, as is, there's no real clear cut guidlines for what is or isn't a reference, and anything that is is merely hearsay or personal opinion. Actellim 11:15, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

... Things which have many, many quotes, like the princess bride and star wars, are referred to and other quotes are are matched to the original source, as well as I could. That's the guideline, and I think it's clear enough, this time. You still haven't said what is wrong with it, other than people will add more junk.
 * Meh. What use would be to point out any more reasons? If we did, you'd cast it aside too ("You still haven't said what is wrong with it, other than people will add more junk and that other thing you mentioned." anyone?) . That said, THAT is enough reason to leave out the junk, because frankly, your rock-solid guidelines will not be enough to keep away more junk either. Who can tell Anet was thinking about the flower? Why are we undecided between Buddha and Princess? Why do you hate Seinfeld? See, your guideline is NOT clear enough (except in designating us as "stupid, stupid, stupid") . Besides, most anons don't read guidelines/talk pages anyway [[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 18:28, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Re-adding the trivia that was previously removed is a violation of GW:1RV. Likewise, adding content where the community concensus appears to be against including it can be viewed as an act of vandalism. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:48, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

3 people have said they don't want this here, without giving any reason, and gem doesn't see anything wrong with it. That isn't a consensus, and you're a hypocrite. What reference is intended is completely irrelevant. How many times do I have to write something before you bother to read it? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.17.252 (talk &bull; contribs) 12:54, May 13, 2007 (CDT).


 * You can type is a dozen times but it doesn't make you less wrong. Without having guidelines as to what constitutes a reference, the section DOES NOT BELONG THERE cause you have people adding dozens of POSSIBLE references without having a clue what was actually intended. As an example, 1 guy thought "Run For Your Life" was a reference to the Iron Maiden song "Run to the Hills". Another guy thought it was a reference to a Twisted Sister song of the same name. I'm sure we could find another 20 things that also use the line "run for your life", so until we are sure WHAT it's a reference to(which may not even be ANYTHING) it doesn't belong. I don't mind including the obvious ones(like "Don't Fear the Reaper") but too many of them are just TOO open to speculation, and even THAT still causes problems(One guy thought "Riders on the Storm" was an "obvious" Johnny Cash reference, even though Riders on the Storm was a huge hit for the Doors, and Cash never recorded it). Hell, people can't even agree on what Life is Pain is a reference to-The Princess Bride, a Bhuddist ideal, one guy even noted it was a line from the last Metallica album. We don't need the section cluttered with every usage of every line referenced in every description. So no, what reference is intended is TOTALLY relevant, no matter how many times you say otherwise. DKS01 16:02, 13 May 2007 (CDT)
 * All of that is irrelevant. I wrote the guideline, and you ignored it or didn't understand it.  Neither of which matters much, I think.
 * Noooo, all of that is TOTALLY relevant. You can dispute it's relevancy if you want, but it doesn't make you any less wrong. DKS01 16:30, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

If Anyone knows/cares - INXS had an album called "Do not fear the reaper" or Dont fear the reaper - dont know whether its relevant... 82.17.118.150 16:18, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

riders on the storm
an obvious johnny cash reference


 * Err, try an obvious DOORS reference, THEY did Riders on the Storm. Johnny Cash did GHOST Riders in the SKY(and he wasn't the first to do that song, either). DKS01 18:10, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Right. It's a famous Doors song, anyone else who did it covered it. If we're going to list any bands, it is going to be The Doors. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]]  03:17, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, Hammerfall did Riders of the Storm too. It's not a cover, it's a seperate song. I'm sure the reference is to the Doors too, but the Hammerfall Riders of the Storm isn't a cover. DKS01 05:15, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Life is Pain
Also a line in St. Anger by Metallica. "Faith is my Shield is also a line that Space Marines say in Warhammer 40k:Dawn of War.Nilator 08:27, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Here we go again. Life is Pain outdates Metallica by so much, as it is a Buddhist idea. Faith is My Shield is a term that has been around forever, stereotyped by Crusaders. Soulcatcher 21:03, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Adding Inscriptions
Can you add an inscription to a Firey Dragon Sword for that inscription? I've been wanting a Strength and Honor inscription for that...?


 * You'd have to find one that has either a blank Inscription slot or some other Inscription that you can replace...however that would only happen on an FDS found in Elona (Nightfall) because dropped items don't use inscriptions in Prophecies or Factions yet. (ever?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:31, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

inscriptabe?
does inscriptable items drop in prophecies hard mode? -darkstone knight- 11:47, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, nor Factions HM. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 12:16, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

"Live for Today is from the song "Let's Live For Today" by the Grass Roots. Of course it could be from a different source, but that's what I think it's from at least.


 * Considering that phrase has been around for YEARS, I think a song by the "Grass Roots" is near the BOTTOM of the list of possibly sources. And considering the line is used in a famous quote by Albert Einstein, I'd guess that's about 1.2 million times more likely to be the source. DKS01 03:22, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

Weaponsmiths
One of my guildies said that you cannot add inscriptions to Nightfall items made from a weaponsmith. Is this true?69.151.247.52 19:21, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Of course not. Most likely he's using a weaponsmith that crafts an item without an inscription slot. --Kale Ironfist 20:31, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Which weaponsmiths craft weapons with inscription slots? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.240.95.120 (contribs).
 * All of the ones that don't come with an inscription-esque type upgrade on them (Energy +5, 15^50, etc) in Nightfall --Gimmethegepgun 21:44, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

Why is the trivia being readded?
... - B e X or   07:28, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I think we should only add guaranteed stuff. Don't Fear The Reaper in google brings up blue oyster cult and nothing but, so that one's pretty obvious. If it's a popular catchphrase but we know where it originated, we should include that source (in the case of songs, the original author/performer; not the hundred bands that have covered it since then). It can quickly get out of hand, but if we keep stringent requirements on accuracy of trivia (since we've had a history with this part), it should remain top quality. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 07:39, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Honestly, I'm scared. I expect to be back in square one in no time. You saw what Skuld added? And don't think I'm one of the Skuld-haters either. I kinda like him but what he wrote was so stupefyingly wrong that I thought his account was hacked. What this means, of course, even edits by respected long timers cannot be considered accurate without fact checking and this section (being trivia) has many pitfalls when it comes to fact checking. (Edit after Editconflict: Oh, so Skuld is watching. *blush*) --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 07:58, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Bcos there is no question of where dont fear the reaper comes from. From what I can gather, it was removed because of uncertaintity, but where there is none, it makes no sense not to list it. &mdash; Skuld 07:52, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree with the reaper thingy but what about the life is pain thingy? That will look "no question" to somebody else too. And the riders thingy looked to be "no question" to you, too, Skuld. The history log sez so. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 07:58, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Until we get a definition of what constitutes "definite" ALL trivia should be kept off the page. I mean, some guy already listed "Riders on the Storm" as an "obvious" Johnny Cash reference...this is despite the fact that Johnny Cash never performed a song called Riders on the Storm, whereas The Doors had a huge hit with it. Yet to him the reference was "obvious". DKS01 08:15, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * As we can't even agree that "Don't fear the reaper" is a blue oyster cult song, and the only matches from google/yahoo/altavista/wikipedia etc point to blue oyster cult... we're not going to get anywhere with this section. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 08:22, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I would like to set the record straight that what I agreed to above about Don't Fear The Reaper is that it definitely is a BÖC reference. However, you are right that it would look pretty lonely up there, because we wouldn't be able to agree on anything else. Even RotS :) --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 08:28, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I would love to see some sort of method to include some of these trivia entries. But so far, every solution proposed has boiled down to optinion (ie: these are real because the user says they are real, the others are not because the user says they are not).  As we've seen before - this results in an unmanageable nightmarishly large list.
 * I can really only see three options, hopefully someone else has more.
 * One is to omit trivia - which seems odd to me, as most other articles have it - but due to the nature of how this article is written, it becomes too big of a list here to be manageable.
 * The next is to develop some sort of guideline on a threshold for inclusion of trivia - but that seems virtually impossible as this sort of content is subjective to many.
 * The third option is to re-visit the decision where we don't have individual articles for each inscription. If we were to reverse that, each individual article could have its own trivia section without it growing over-whelming, and this central article could remain relatively condensed.  This could be donw either as two seperate pages to maintain for each inscription, or setup each inscription to be a template, similar to how skills are currently maintained (only one spot to maintain, but more confusing for new users).
 * Personally, I like the third option. It can open the doors to adding trivia for these again (which some users obviously like having), while at the same time keeping this article from becoming unmanageable. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:09, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but what would we have to fill those many pages? Look at the Show me the money! article -- it is one of the more interesting inscriptions. Many others would have a c/p'ed introductory sentence plus a forced definition sentence. It would be a maintenance nightmare where there is nothing to maintain, actually. We shouldn't treat them like we do the skills - how often do they get updates anyway? --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 20:23, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You know if you wanted trivia confirmation you could try sending an email into Anet. I know at the official wiki Emily Diehl said she would have a go at confirming trivia with the team. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 23:26, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

"Seize the Day"
Refence to Fight club support group
 * "Carpe diem", Latin saying ;) &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   04:27, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Nontrivial trivia problem
There is a saying in my language, which I can try to translate thus: One lunatic threw a rock into the well, forty wise men couldn't take it back out. Apparently, this page will always be the village well (now that the builds section is gone:). Every once in a while, somebody will post a reference here and we'll spend countless hours and keystokes and bytes to discuss it. Just look at this 55K+ discussion page -- the bulk of the page is the bickering about trivia.

We won't be able to solve it with inclusion criteria or guidelines because, as I said before, anons don't know/care about guidelines, criteria or even policy. And since the subject is highly subjective (not like we can go out in the Isle of the Nameless and test it) we'll never be able to agree upon criteria either.

I think, in this page, we have stopped discussing Guild Wars and wasted too much time and energy on trivia. I propose this: let us put a mini-policy in the talk page that forbids trivia on this page, archive the discussions, (semi-)protect this page and move on.--Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 06:07, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Factions Inscribables
Some inscribables have been dropping in factions. I have an inscribable Vertebreaker from The Deep. I can put screenshots up if necessary


 * The rare weapons from the deep and warren are inscribable, we know that --Gimmethegepgun 17:52, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Old Tyrian Items
I think it's worth mentioning that Tyrian items can have unusual stats, for instance I've found shields that have +1 to Illusion or Earth Magic. Although Inscriptions only really apply to Nightfall items.-AOTT 13:57, 2 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Those +1 Illusion or Earth or whatever are actual item mods, not usual, just not usually useful. No reason to mention them anymore than to mention +1 Tactics shields or +1 death magic staves. DKS01 17:32, 2 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, it's mentioned in the Weapon Modifiers article. I just thought it interesting that no inscriptions exist to replicate the mods on Nightfall items.-AOTT 03:04, 3 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Master of My Domain? - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 06:25, 3 July 2007 (CDT)


 * That inscription only increases the ITEM'S ATTRIBUTE. Tyrian items can occur with +1 to attributes that aren't related to the item's attribute.-AOTT 09:05, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah I see your point. I actually have a req 8 Tactics Aegis that has +1 to Fire Magic. Never found a use for it really. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 11:16, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Hamstorm!!! DKS01 01:04, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

The Great Unanswered Question (as far as I know)
Do 15% inscriptions apply to simple attacks, or do they add to skills damage as well?Silver40596 18:28, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They don't increase bonus damage from skills. 67.162.10.70 21:24, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They'll increase damage from attack skills, but not spells/traps etc. - Auron 21:25, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Auron are you sure about that? 67.162.10.70 21:41, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes. Power Attack's damage will increase from 15% damage mod. Dust Trap and attack spells don't. - Auron 22:45, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Addendum; no mods increase bonus damage. If a skill (let's say Power Attack) adds 30 bonus damage, 15% damage mod will not increase that; but it will increase the damage overall (via increasing base damage). - Auron 23:05, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

New inscriptions?
today i found a damage+14% health regen -1. is this new or have i missed something? Bbbaer 09:48, 18 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Is it an actual inscription per se? or just a fixed weapon mod.. &mdash; Skuld 04:35, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Screen please? --Gimmethegepgun 04:37, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I have seen such weapons (a Vampiric Longbow, Tyrian). Never seen an inscribable, nor even a Factions weapon. These are very rare, AFAIK. Also; the weapon create stuff for PvP's doesn't have that inscription, so another reason to think it won't be an inscription. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.24.206.123 (contribs).


 * I'm confused. You found a Vamp weapon that gives the usual -1 Degen but, instead of stealing 1...5 Health, it deals 15% more damage? That doesn't make sense. I can understand a Vampiric mod + 15^something inscription, but this is new to me... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:53, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * 15% -1 health degen and 15% -1 energy degen are fairly rare stuff that have since been phased out. They didn't make an inscription for them for this reason, which is why I want to know if Bbbaer actually has an "inscription" of that, and not just a fixed inherent mod as I suspect. &mdash; Skuld 04:56, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * To Entropy: It had both Vampiric 5/-1, and the -1 health regeneration/+15% dmg mod. Sorry if I confused you (and it seems I did...) 84.24.206.123 05:29, 23 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I just found one of these while butchering fire imps in Tyria. Pic: http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9196/gw010hn4.jpg Phydeaux 02:19, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * They've existed for quite a while. --Kale Ironfist 02:20, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Realm of Torment, Deathbane
I got an Igneous Blade of Deathbane (19% mind you) today at Foundry. Dropped from a Margo I think. And the thing is not inscribable! What gives? Can non inscrbable weapons drop in Nifht Fall? Or is the Realm of Torment like UW/FoW? Chemtox 06:16, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You can get golds with NO inscription slot (similar to golds with no inherent mods). So, the likely answer is that non-inscribable weapons can drop in Nightfall. --Kale Ironfist 06:19, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, naturally. Just like you don't always get a prefix/suffix mod on your Blue/Purple/Gold items, or like you will not always get both a Rune and Insignia on an armor drop. It's completely possible to get a gold weapon with mods but not an inscription. Rare, mind you, but possible. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:20, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Ugh, Deathbane is an upgrade, not an inscription. My bad. ^_^  Chemtox 06:30, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

So confused...
What's "Life is pain"'s abilites? It Says health -20, but the one I got also has a armor +4 ability... also, are inscriptions always maxed, or do I have to watch out for that (like wep mods)

"To The Pain" Working?
I have observed that a To The Pain inscription does not actually drop the 10 armor like it says it should. Ressmonkey 21:13, 29 August 2007 (CDT)