Talk:The Strength of Snow

Needs a map, any quest dialogue, and accept/reject quest quotes.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 05:27, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Added map. Hope it conforms to the standards... --Mshantar 06:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * nowhere is it mentioned that this uses snowball fighting skills
 * Yes it does, it says "you are under the effects of Yuletide", and one of those effects is the skills. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:29, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Morale boost from ally death?!
From the notes: "When Freezie is killed for a first time, you get a morale boost, just like after killing a normal boss." Aren't you defending Freezie in this quest? I'm confused... --68.187.144.197 02:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He's still a boss, whenever any boss is killed you get a boost if you're in the vicinity. Look at Kodonur Crossroads, one of the Centaur rangers you rescue is a boss who gives a morale boost and allows you to cap smoke trap if he dies Blue.rellik 02:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So, yes I confirmed it, same with Grentchus in the partner quest.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá† ħŕášħ 03:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL -- "Hey guys, that dude we're trying to defend just died! I'm feeling better and better about this mission!"  :D  --68.187.144.197 03:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Changing drops over the event?
I've done a fair number of runs of this quest over the past few days and haven't gotten any peppermint CC's until today, where I just got 3 in 4 runs. Something similar happened with another item about halfway through the event... Yuletide tonics I think but I don't remember for sure. Of course this could easily just be chance so I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar. --Colonel Popcorn 19:33, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes I've had this happen a few times on various char's as well, the tonics for instance.. they've dropped 3 from 3 runs often and once even 4 from 4. Granted this doesn't happen all the time so my guess is it's a chance thing, which is pretty good given the low %ge drop rate of tonics.  Peppermint CC's I'm not 100% sure on but I have to say I've not taken that much notice of them.

Repeatable?
This quest doesn't repeat. I've switched districts and no luck. 64.102.94.181 01:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Try zoning to your gh and back --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 01:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or really anywhere but the same town and then go back. --Shadowcrest  01:31, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I switch districts and it comes back just fine in Lion's Arch. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Wear the Wintersday hat to increase your odds?
Probably a silly rumor, but I've heard that if you wear the Wintersday cap (Grenth) before entering the mission, you greatly increase your chances of getting the mini polar bear. Does make some sense if these didn't start dropping till AFTER the finale. --69.40.228.128 06:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tried this run wearing both hats. 5 times each.  No polar bear.--67.32.36.230 16:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Wear a hat to increase the favor of the chest! Bogus². --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] -- talkpage 16:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess wearing the hat can't really hurt on this quest because you have set health, energy, and armor...
 * The word "Gullible" is not in the dictionary, seriously. Look it up and see.  People kill me, I'm suprised they even know how to breathe.
 * I heard if you do the mission without breathing your chances of getting a polar becomes very high... should try it
 * but seriously... no, GW just doesn't work like that --80.7.51.146 23:33, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course it's just a rumor. But then, superstitions usually don't make sense. On the other hand, there's no reason not to wear a silly costume, either.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  21:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The closest I could think of to the mechanic of detecting what armor you actually wear (outside of runes/insigs) is the infusion status. The game knows if your armor is infused or not.  As far as skin, I don't think it's set up to detect it, all it knows is that your headgear has AL0 for the purpose of damage calculation. Then again, Anet screwed us last year when they didn't even mention the mini's existence until the event was almost over... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

This mission and Unclaimed items window
I just did this and it seems that the unclaimed items window does not appear, which suck.I just stood by the door and waited for it to be over and of course there were a lot of CCS but i only had 10 seconds to pick them up,I assumed that i would get the window so i didn't bother picking up more then 4, Should this be noted on the page? It would save people some disappointment. Durga Dido 17:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Pick up the CCSes before you open the Wintersday Chest - the timer doesn't start until you open the chest. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol thats what you get when the only thing your thinking is "i hope i get the polar bear" :P 20:58, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the unclaimed items window does appear, but because shards aren't reserved for a player (aka you) they do not appear in the window. If, however, a reserved item is still there (didn't pick up chest drops) the window will appear as normal.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  05:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Quest farming guide
'''NOTE: The following guide was written before Wintersday 2009, which changed some skills and Grentches. The guide in the article has been updated to reflect these changes.'''

I'm no expert, but I did run this quest ~30 times today, so I feel I know what I'm talking about. Here's how to run this quest quickly for the most chances at getting a Miniature Polar Bear, and getting lots of Eggnog and other stuff besides. I can consistently do this in 6-7 minutes, not counting time in town between runs.

General

 * Run past everything until you reach Freezie and friends. The only enemies that must be defeated are Grentchus Magnus and the 5 grentches that accompany him.
 * Most of the grentches you encounter will be fighting snowmen. Very rarely, one of them will attack you after the snowman it is fighting dies, but if you keep running it will ignore you and switch to another snowman.
 * Some grentches will appear by themselves. Do your best to dodge their snowballs and use "Mmmm. Snowcone!" when you need it.
 * If you're not good at dodging, you can use Hidden Rock before encountering a grentch, then throw a Snowball to aggro them. This will daze the grentch, doubling the time it takes to activate all its skills.
 * While it only takes about 10 seconds to kill a grentch (4 Snowballs @ 1s activation + 0.75s aftercast), killing all four solo grentches that you encounter will add almost a minute to your run, especially if you precast Hidden Rock or use Ice Fort.

Profession notes
Your choice of profession doesn't make a whole lot of difference, as the profession-specific skills aren't especially powerful.

Order of encounters
(numbers are ordered as Grentches vs. Snowmen)


 * 1) Initial chamber: 4 vs. 4 - you'll hardly even get in range of this group.
 * 2) Second chamber: 3 vs. 4 - run right through, snowmen should win this one so nothing will follow you.
 * 3) Long passage: Solo grentch.
 * 4) Across bridge: 2 vs. 2 - because of how these activate, the grentches will usually kill at least one snowman before the snowmen start to fight back, so these grentches might chase you a bit.
 * 5) Through door and around corner: Solo grentch.
 * 6) At end of passage: 2 grentches off to the side. Be careful not to aggro them while dodging the previous grentch's snowballs.
 * 7) Big chamber: 4 vs. 5 - easy snowman victory.
 * 8) In front of exit door: Solo grentch, with another solo grentch around the corner. You'll probably take quite a few hits from these two, so save your Snowcone.
 * 9) Final battle. Four waves of two groups, followed by final wave of Grentchus Magnus and friends.  There are four spawning points: at then end of the passage to the north, on the hill to the south, against the wall to the northwest, and down the passage to the west.  Contrary to what the article says, the spawns are not random.
 * 10) *Wave 1: North and west (identical): Flashy,  Frozen, and  Icy.
 * 11) *Wave 2:
 * 12) **South group: Dodgy,  Frozen,  Grentch, and  Tricky
 * 13) **North group: Dodgy,  Frozen,  Grentch, and  Sneaky
 * 14) *Wave 3:
 * 15) **Northwest group: Dodgy,  Hasty,  Speedy, and  Tricky
 * 16) **South group: Dodgy,  Flashy,  Grentch, and  Shifty
 * 17) *Wave 4:
 * 18) **North group: 4x Sneaky
 * 19) **South group: Flashy,  Icy,  Shifty, and  Speedy
 * 20) *Wave 5: West: Grentchus Magnus,  Flashy,  Icy,  Shifty,  Speedy,  Tricky

For the final battle, stay to the east of the snowmen, near the closed doors, so that you don't draw the initial aggro from the grentches. Try to target grentches that the snowmen are not targeting, to avoid wasting a Mega Snowball because your target died before it hit. If you do get attacked, run away and the grentch should re-target to a snowman. The worst-case scenario is all snowmen dead, your Ice Fort interrupted, and you've used your Snowcone - if this should happen to you, zig and zag like a kitty on catnip and pray that you can dodge enough snowballs to stay alive until some snowmen resurrect. (True story: that happened to me once against the last group, I was running around for at least five seconds after being diseased down to 1 Health, and miraculously survived to finish the quest.)

Hope that's useful to everyone trying to get the mini bear. ^_^ Now I sleep. z_z &mdash;Dr Ishmael  09:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What profession would you say is best for farming this? I've come to like the Dervish, for the extra heal, as I have also had a couple close calls with a used up snowcone and ice fort.  Assassin would probably be a decent choice for that, as well.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally use Rt to have an extra snowman, although the current AI for Jack is pretty bad, and tends not to attack unless you are also.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Ho ho ho.]]îğá †ħŕášħ 04:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I started as an Ele, now im more likeing ranger because they both get AoE damage for the end groups, it helps. Ranger has faster DPS because it can be spammed like, 15 times in one recharge of Icicles. but icicles is good for a snare if your in a sticky situation DeathByAnArrow 04:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the snowmen summon their own Jack Frost, so a Ritualist is redundant, imo... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * (triple edit conflict) I've tried E, Me, Mo, R, Rt, and W, and they all seemed about the same. The W's skill is nice for quickly charging a Mega Snowball (5s of 10% IMS doesn't make much difference in run times, though), the Rt's skill is a bit redundant since there's always an Industrious Snowman at the end (except that he'll be dead 60% of the time), the R and E's skills give so-so AoE damage (although the grentches are buggers about staying bunched up), and the Me and Mo's skills can be somewhat useful (if you can hit the right target at the right time).  I've been doing it mostly on my main (E) and burning through a couple stacks of Hard Apple Cider at the same time. :D
 * I hadn't thought about D or A yet, but being able to heal for a full Snowball hit every 10s would probably be very nice. The P's skill seems kinda meh, and the N's skill is outright /fail for the solo quests.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I just tried the Assassin. Wasn't as nice as I'd thought.  Tried everything else except Mesmer, but I imagine they have their usual PvE problem: their spells are a waste on a PvE target since it dies too fast while a dozen others are still dishing out their #$%# at you.  Gonna try Ranger tomorrow, see how that fares, but outside of that Dervish is my choice for now.  I also had a revelation while staring at someone in the Grentch tonic form today... they have some naaaaastyyyyy pubes... :@ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:42, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And if they drop a CCS and it falls just right, it looks like they have a candy cane boner. :O &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * So when are you planning on putting that guide on the main article? It's much better than the one there now.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  06:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure if people would want that much information for such a simple quest (it was 3 AM when I posted it, so it might've been one of those "sounded like a good idea at the time" things), and I wanted to get other people's comments to make sure I wasn't missing anything important. I'll probably add a section on profession choice, then put it on the article later today.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:34, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been killing everything, hadn't occurred to me to try to run past everything. Guess that'll improve my times....  Thanks! =) [[Image:Renai Mu icon.jpg|19px]]Renai Mu  16:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the best way to get the mini polar bear. I'd say it deserves an in-depth walkthrough, since about half the population of GW is probably farming it right now.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  17:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

(RI) Question, how do you know the grentches that use Yellow Snow are Necromancers? EDIT: I'm an idiot. Disregard. <.<' (T/C) 05:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Class Discussion
First awesome guide. Almost exactly how I do it myself. SO far managed to farm 4 stacks of candy cane shards almost 200 fruit cakes which I sold for quite a bit of money. Anyway the best class in my opinion is the monk. NOw you have your basic heal of the snowcone, but that extra heal is good. What is great about it is the KD if you get hit. That allows you to get much further away from the grentchies. Anyway just my observation, I am sure you can run it with any class, I am just better with monk. Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 17:33, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What I like about monk is that, if you almost wipe and have to run way, you cast Ice Breaker on Freezie the next time he spawns. That way, the grentches will spend enough time killing him that other snowmen will have spawned, greatly speeding up the waiting-off-to-the-side process.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  18:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd have to call it a toss up between monk and warrior. I like the extra heal of the monk but the warrior's quick speed boost is good for hurrying on around the corners in the vicinity of the 2v2 area. The downside of the monk's ability is that you have to stop for a second to activate it. So, yes it lets you get ahead once they hit you.
 * So, the downside to the monk ability is two-fold: 1. They have to hit you for them to be knocked down (thus you have to take damage to make them fall behind) 2. You have to stop to activate it. With the warrior ability you keep on running without giving them a chance to catch up and then you just pull on ahead.--Nova-Exarch 03:40, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But the warrior's speed boost is a piece of crap... O_O I personally like the ranger.  It really helps speed things up in the end, if you hide behind the snowmen and quickly find clusters or 2 or more Grentches to nuke.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:24, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm really liking assassin this year. The heal is great after the boost, so I can just run past everything and heal up whatever hits I take, using avalanche to slow the ones that follow. It also makes the final fight safer, and can't be interrupted like ice breaker.

Stupid grenches
The grenches fight among themselves. I noticed, when 1 grench that spawned on the run to freezie (the last corner) ran along with me to freezie, and wasn't killed by the snowmen, but by the spawing greches. I saw it 3 or four times in a row, so i'm pretty sure it's not a 1 time mistake, but it happens on regular basis. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 13:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah it happens because the two groups are not linked. When the group with Grenchus spawns it is hostile to everything. That includes the previous groups of grenches. There are a few instances of this outside of this quest. An example would be the giants in thunder head keep mission, that kind of stuff. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 16:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I forgot to mention that above, but yeah, they're apparently not marked as being on the same "team". Sometimes this can be a problem, actually, because the trigger for the next wave spawning seems to be killing off the northern spawn group in a wave.  When the western group takes its time killing that grentch (especially if it's a Frozen one) and the snowmen have already cleaned out the northern group in the first wave, the second wave can spawn and move in at the same time that the western group finally makes it over.  So it might be a good idea to kill that one if it's a Frozen.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Peppermint Candycanes
Why are pep candy canes listed as very rare? i get them 1/4 runs. or am i just lucky (even though i have no polar bears yet...) DeathByAnArrow 18:45, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm tempted to say that that belongs on the Rainbow Candy Canes instead, they seem pretty rare as a chest drop. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:44, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah, I barely get any Peppermints. Only got 7 compared to 29 Rainbows over all my runs so far. [[Image:ParAmSIG.jpg]](T/C) 05:47, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I get decent number of Rainbows out of the presents I trade for my shards, but I rarely see them in the Wintersday Chest. Overall, I have 40 Peppermint, 35 Rainbow, and 117 Wintergreen right now, with 30 Yule tonics.  So, Peppermint/Rainbow canes are about as rare as the tonics.  I think all the random 5th item drops, besides the mini, have the same chances, including the Fruitcake and both Nogs, but the ones that drop from the chest automatically just get overlooked.  Maybe not.  I haven't kept track of how many runs I did.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I marked them as such because out of my first 50 runs, I had only gotten 3 Peppermints and 2 Yuletide Tonics. In my next 27, I've gotten 6 Peppermints, so... I was just unlucky on those before.  On GWW, they have all but the Tonic listed with a ~15% chance, and the Tonic with ~7% (my experience still agrees that the tonic is rarer than the others).  That makes sense to me, except that I'd bet their tonic is a bit on the low side.  There are 6 non-tonic/miniature items, which add up to 90%.  The tonic is probably closer to 8-9%, leaving 1-2% for the bear.  (I rewrote parts of this post ~15 times, so if the final version doesn't make sense at any point, that's why.)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:39, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Weapons

 * 1) I use a Swift "Don't Think Twice" staff of Enchanting, and I think that's the best combination for this quest. The reason is that the dual 10% chance to HCT/all spells will affect the snowballs and ice fort casting times, which can be helpful against interrupts, while dazed and just to speed things up. The 20% chance HSR/all spells inherent on staff also affects the recharge of ice fort, which makes it even more useful. Plus, we all know enchanting mod extends ice fort, too, and is the primary mod to seek for this quest. There is no green staff with these exact mods, but any primary attribute Droknar's Staff comes very close with +30HP instead of Swift.
 * 2) Another fine choice would be a similar Tyrian staff with the inherent reduced Daze mod in place of the inscription, but those are rare. Ivor's Staff seems to be the only green with reduced daze and 20% enchanting, but has +5 armor instead of the desired Swift mod.
 * 3) Another option could be a Silencing spear of Enchanting with 10% HCT or HSR inscription and a focus with "Soundness of Mind" (reduce daze) or "Serenity Now" (10% HSR/all) and a core of Swiftness (10% HCT/all). There is no green spear with more than 1 of these mods at once, or a green focus with reduced daze and swiftness. 10/10 green foci are any primary attribute Droknar's Focus or Vokur's Chakram.

Health, energy and damage mods have no effect here due to Yuletide. Contrary to some claims, wielding a long/flat bow does not increase the range of your snowballs, they are still the standard spell range.

Wielding a weapon with shorter than spell range (short bow, spear, or a melee weapon) will cause you to move towards the enemy to meet the weapon's range whenever you're not casting (even though you can't attack), provided you hit auto-attack (Spacebar), so I try to avoid these weapons, as I have a very strong C+Space/Tab+Space reflex.

I haven't researched the effects of +armor mods here, but I suspect it might only affect the Grentches' standard attacks (if even), which do about 5-10 dmg anyway, and aren't much of a threat, other than triggering dazed interrupts. Disease is another common condition here worth reducing via staff/offhand, but I find daze to be more annoying/dangerous of the two.

Of all these, I prefer the first staff. RoseOfKali 00:35, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Armor
As far as armor, I don't think it makes much of a difference. Snowball damage is armor ignoring (afaik), and I don't know if grentches' base attacks are affected by armor and what type of damage they are. Regardless, this damage is still very low, so +10/+20 armor from various insignia wouldn't make much of a difference in the end. RoseOfKali 00:35, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * That said, the only "good" insignia is Stonefist for warriors, to increase the KD from Hidden Rock. If the base dmg is affected by armor, eles would have an interesting choice with Prismatic, as they can meet the maximum requirement with ease, and have +20 armor vs. all. Other +armor is easy to choose, if it actually works, so research needed.
 * Lieutenant's, another warrior one, is useful while running to shorten the snare from Icicles. Not good while fighting, as it reduces your armor and damage.
 * As far as runes, Purity (-disease) and Recovery (-daze) are the only useful runes here.

20% lengthen enchantment does NOT work! (naturally)
Tried several times with two different weapons (dagger with enchantment 20% and staph with same) -- from time I click fort skill to the point it first starts to collapse is 10.9 seconds (+/- about .05 sec) with and without 20% enchant lengthen. (Presumably, fort protects for the .1 secs it takes to fully collapse, and the extra second is the skill activation time.) Thanks Anet, along with the recent ridiculous lags, I am getting a bit pissed at many aspects of the game (but, still I play on....), especially after getting lots of real money for the costumes you'd think they'd get better/more servers. GW-Susan 03:19, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Except that the enchantment stays on (oh, and still protects) for the 2 seconds after the graphical fort collapses... O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:35, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahh! Tricky!  GW-Susan 14:26, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well actually, the fort usually comes off 1 sec before enchant comes off anyways, so more like 3 seconds :P &mdash; Balistic 17:32, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Character bug?
Been doing this quest for a while now and I've noticed that some of my male char's seem to be somewhat gender-challenged when it comes to taking damage or being KD'd. They give a female grunt instead of a male one. Seemed a bit odd, and I just wondered if it were a common bug?