User talk:Midnight08/Builds/Rt/A Spirit of the Assassin

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on new builds. Please do not vote on a build until you have actually tested it.''

Favoured: Unfavoured:
 * 1) Very good to have one of these guys on your team in TA, deals hell alot of dmg
 * 2) Works quite well.  Not quite the spiker I was hoping, but provides very heavy and steady DPS, certainly keeps the pressure on.  Also nice having a counter to most of the anti-melee tools out there. Llava 03:22, 23 December 2006 (CST)
 * 3) I was pleasantly surprised at how well this build worked at its stated purpose. Very effective.  Defiant Elements 15:40, 25 December 2006 (CST)
 * 4) Powerful build alternative for those people who like being an offensive Ritualist. Nightfall has made these builds possible. --Nyc Elite 23:18, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * 5) Good work. 68.226.178.120 01:26, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * 6) I saw a guild use this with great effectiveness.  The average DPS was pretty insane, though ritualists using daggers looked really funny.  After a stalemate at the flagstand in the hunter's hall, the damage from the ritualists combined with the mesmers were too much for the enemy monks.  --Lania Elderfire 18:35, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * 7) I hit for 65-80 on normal hits and an average of 115 on the dagger attacks. Thumbs up.Cheese Slaya 19:13, 27 February 2007 (CST)
 * 8) HUGE pressure build. Great build! I didn't think I would see a Secondary Rt build work so well!Isis In De Nile 22:36, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * 9) Good alternative for IW. High damage though ^ ^. I only wish for a faster IAS. -X H K
 * 10) Beutiful, just beutiful. I use this build also in PvE with some minor variants ^^. ~Hege-in-da-House
 * 1) Not a good build. -Warskull 20:20, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Explain--Llednar 18:10, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) DONT STRIKEOUT VOTES!, and 2) He did... Read the discussion (If u want a 3) its im the 1 who made the build and asked for his vote. it was an honest and well thought out vote, an dafter asking he gave a very good explination)--Midnight08 18:21, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) Grenth dervishes (and the massive amount of dom mesmers??) &mdash; Skuld 08:14, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * only problem i have with that is the lack of grenths derves in RA/CM/AB. Ive seen 1 grenth derv there and that was during the 1st preview weekend. Which makes your only problem with the build - Dom Mesmers...=P Either way its Skuld so i didnt expect a positive vote here =) --Midnight08 08:17, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * /slap &mdash; Skuld 08:18, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Spike>Pressure BoA still king Wanderer Mephisto 05:32, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Please explain how you run a BoA sin as Rt/A. I agree it is better, but its not a reason to unfavor this. Also, note my variation below, which combines a serious spike with the pressure of this elite. Works much better than IW, and IW builds got favored ;) Tain 15:53, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Discussion
Lets see if I can go 3 of 3 =) --Midnight08 14:32, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * Btw, the ONLY thing I dont particularly like about this build so far is the lack of a shadow step, but being pressure it doesnt particularly need one. --Midnight08 14:43, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yay - 3 of 3.... patience is a virtue=) --Midnight08 23:30, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Taken from guru Here is the more offensive variant i use is Golden Pheonix Strike Horns of the Ox Falling Spider Blades of Steel Spirits Strength (E) Vital Weapon Sight Beyond Sight Rez (12+1+3) spawning power 12 dagger mastery 3+1 Communing this works good to tho so I think putting mine is varients is fine--A Guy 17:29, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * That build has NO inbuilt survival, it will die almost as soon as it is targeted... fit in some survival and i'll consider it. --Midnight08 15:41, 23 December 2006 (CST)

I've been trying out different combinations of Spirits Strength and secondary professions. Idk about have just feigned neutrality as its survival/heaing skill. Its an awesome skill i give you that, but im thinking having one survival/healing skill with 25 recharge is somewhat scary. I've been running a variant with wielders boon, repeating strike, and golden lotus strike. 68.226.139.90 00:04, 24 December 2006 (CST)
 * you could always pull sight beyond for dark escape... that would give you 2 skills to alternate for almost constant coverage... but you'd be succeptable to blind again...--Midnight08 02:21, 24 December 2006 (CST)
 * I don't know how well that would work. Those two skills would be used if you really want to get out of battle.  If you attack while in any of them, they end.    The two skills work nicely in an illusionary weaponrhy build, but not a spirit strength.  I'm thinking more on the lines of just a healing skill instead of an escape skill.  Wielder's boon perhaps. 68.226.178.120 23:22, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Would require an investment in restoration, but would work... I ran this originally... it also works but i preferred the current build, Shadow Refuge should fit very well though since you'd be attacking constantly. Added shadow refuge as a variant as it is a very good alternative--Midnight08 23:26, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've found that taking both Shadow Refuge and Feigned Neutrality gives this build a major boost in survivability. Been running this in AB with great success using Golden Fox, Fox Fangs, Nine Tails Strike, Shadow refuge and feigned neutrality and finishing off with Sight Beyond Sight, Vital Weapon and Spirit Strength.Jaofos 14:31, 21 February 2007 (CST)

These builds are basically only good for goofing around. Not worth running outside of RA. You have a very long set-up time with spirit's strength, sight beyond sight, and vital weapon. The build is also fairly fragile to enchantment removal. While this is less of an issue in RA you are extremely likely to get stripped in TA. It lacks snares, teleportation, and a speed boost. The combo itself takes a good 20 energy every 8s to get best use out of it. It tries to take a pressure role for an assassin, which they are not particularly strong at. It functions, but really a warrior or a thumper perform the job in a much more threatening manner. It doesn't have much in the degree of flexibility. It is certainly better thought out than most Rt/melee builds, but the concept itself is more of something to play around with and less of something to seriously place in your builds. While it doesn't seem like a lot, the large set-up time really impacts the build. -Warskull 20:26, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thank you and all valid points, I will be looking at the build to see what i can do to make the build stand on its own before adding spirits strength... IF there is a good build to find in it i will. otherwise i'll at least have the best spirit strength build out there. Thank you for your input and reasoning. To take from that i will be removing the TA tag as it is true that this would fail in TA. I will be adding CM and AB to the list tho. Thank you again --Midnight08 20:29, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Dagger mastery way too low also. If you do something like this, you really have to use the double attacks to make it worth it.  You want to pump that dagger mastery as high as you can get it. -Warskull 05:00, 29 December 2006 (CST)

I generally think these Spirit's Strength Rt/A builds are not good for anything except messing around in RA. if you are serious then another build will often be better. But this one is actually one of the better ones I've seen, but I would still like a shadow step or speed boost, or something to counter kiting. And I can't stand no IAS because I'm so used to having one. :( The trouble is the Spirit's Strength + cover enchant + weapon spell takes up so much of your bar that if you also bring a res, you have only 4 skills left. If those are a lead, offhand and dual strike, that leaves you with 1 skill, which would preferably be self-defence. And as Warskull said, it is a long set up time, and fragile too. An interrupt on spirit's strength or enchant removal severely hurts. The build gives some nice pressure, but I think many other builds are preferable. --arth 22:15, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * expect an edit tomorrow to react to some of what has been said... it may be a variant tho as it will change alot... considering changing to GPS and Dual with a shadow step or speed boost to counter kiting. will have to try it some 1st tho to see how it feels. Will also be lowering the Spawning in favor of Dagger mastery for added dual strike power.--Midnight08 22:21, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'd recommend lowering Communing instead of, or in addition to lowering Spawning Power. You are only using Vital Weapon, and it's main purpose is to trigger Spirit's Strength, so I think thats the best place to take out attribute points.  You are using Feigned Neutrality for defense anyways so I don't think the additional health is really important. -- BrianG 15:07, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * yea, forgot to mention that.... i had lowered communing to 0+1 i believe (or whatever the spare points were) in my initial tests... Ill post changes in a bit (Just saw a bleach marathon last night so im now a fanboy watching it on youtube=P that and joining XoO is taking up my time)--Midnight08 17:19, 31 December 2006 (CST)

It is improved, but again spirit's strength character do have intrinsic flaws that make them a novelty character and not something you seriously run. However, weakness is not a counter to this character. You flat out do not care about weakness. Weakness only acts on base damage. A majority of assassin damage comes from their attack skills, the +damage bonuses and additional damage from spirits strength are unaffected by weakness. Weakness hurts hammers and scythes the most. Weakness stings with axe and sword. Weakness is not any reliable shutdown vs assassins. It helps, but I would hardly call it a counter. If I want to counter this character I strip enchantments, blind him, or kite him. -Warskull 04:10, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * 3 Comments - I adjusted the Weakness note. Enchantment removal is already noted. and Sight Beyond Sight prevents blind. I will add a note about kiting (as this has no anti kite skills) --Midnight08 08:12, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Vital Strength Build
See also :Build:Rt/P_Vital_Strength
 * Still, i think the assassin version has strengths the others do not. the ability to bypass evasion and blocking is worth alot with the prevailance of rangers and monks. I also dont like the builds there too much so would prefer this one to be seperate. (Para has slow attack speed, does not maximize the effectiveness of SpStr, and the war should have flurry to maximize dps, since the SpStr wouldnt be succeptable to the -25%) Good builds, but i feel they could use some improvement. --Midnight08 15:38, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Why not Flesh of My Flesh?
I know there's an energy cost there but wouldn't the static rez Flesh of My Flesh be better then signet? Maybe moreso for PvE Cowboysoultaker 11:04, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * FomF is nice, but as you said is more of a PvE skill. Still, it is 1 of the better hard rez skills. The build was tested in PvP though and as such has the signet listed. FomF would be a viable PvE alternate if you would like to add it as 1 though. (in PvP you never want to lose 1/2 of your life in a shot, also the 5% energy @0 Restoration is not nearly enough)--Midnight08 11:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Clean-up?
Since this is in the tested section I think it needs a bit of cleanup. Midnight, whats the status of the first listed skillbar? Have you abandoned that for the variant? If not, I'd suggest adjusting the attributes still, since Communing is at the same level as Dagger Mastery but not nearly as important. In the variant, you have 8 points in Deadly Arts, but I don't see any Deadly Arts skills. My apologies if I've missed something though. -- BrianG 11:20, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Just didnt particularly feel like making major adjustments to the already tested build... Feel free to adjust it somewhat if it would make sense, The build is submitted and therefore the community as a whole has control of it not just me. If you see something that will make it better and it seems the discussion here agrees, feel free to adjust... noting that i will be dropping the communing for Dagger Mastery in the main build now. --Midnight08 11:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * No problem, I'm fine with whatever your decision is about the build and variant, I was just curious. My main concern was just the attributes.  I haven't tested the build myself so I didn't want to make any adjustments. -- BrianG 11:30, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * The first build's attributes look much better now. :) Still don't get whats up with the Deadly Arts points in the second build though. -- BrianG 11:43, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * lol yea i noticed that while changing the 1st and then work piled up while i was fixing, thats fixed too =) (that and i'm absent minded today (adding sig now=P))--Midnight08 12:41, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Looks better now. :) -- BrianG 13:15, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Communing and Shadow Arts?
Why waste precious attribute points in Communing and Shadow Arts for self healing when restoration works a lot better? Besides Feigned Neutrality prevents you from attacking, and if you have to stop atacking every time you get damage, you are not going to get far! Here is my version of the build! Elizabth Hoover

Attributes and Skills

Equipment
 * Emissary's Armor for more protection.
 * Arius' Sai or Chimor's Daggers to gain more energy and better enchantments. DO NOT use Zealous daggers since your energy will be drained and you wount be able to start combo!


 * While that looks workable, personally I wouldn't want to use any weapon spell other than Vital. With the 30 second duration already feeling like it drops way too often, I definitely could not put up with a 17 second duration weapon spell, having to stop what I'm doing to reapply it roughly two times as often.  While it might not seem that important, that one second of letting up pressure all too often is the difference between a kill and a heal to full health. Llava 21:08, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * The point of vital weapon is the 30 second duration. --Swift Thief 07:53, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * What they said. Resilient Weapon is sex, but casting it twice as often for double the cost - not worth it. And just out of curiousity, why are your attack ordered offhand->lead->dual? Tain 15:40, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Dervish?

 * Dunno about you guys; but I kinda wanna see a dervish build of this. Perhaps it would deal more damage than this... there are many posiiblities; I was thinking of a Spirits Strength dervish with a few enchants... Anyone up to it?
 * there have been several... look through unfavored...(if they havent been deleted yet) the slow attack speed of the scythe doesnt lend itself well to Spr Str builds. Also even with the "test" nerf to feigned its still an extremely effective 1 skill slot defense. A Dervish version would have to devote too much to defense. --Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 18:37, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Attribute Points
I can see that the attribute points have already been changed around a bit but theres still another change needed. At 8 Shadow Arts, which it is at the moment, Feigned Neutrality lasts for 7 seconds. FN also last for 7 seconds at 7 Shadow Arts. Seeing as how thats the only skill linked to Shadow Arts, that could be dropped to 7 attribute points and the rest could be put into Communing to extend the duration of Vital Weapon by an extra 4 seconds and +18 Health, which could be the difference between a kill and an emergency heal. The only downfall of this is that the duration of FN will drop by a second if youre hit with weakness due to the recent update. Ocelot never 02:28, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Made the change. Ocelot never 18:14, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thx for taking care of that, yes the changes make sense. (that and i wanted to test my "Impaler"Sig=P)--Midnight08[[Image:Impale.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:04, 28 February 2007 (CST)

GvG NPC Ganker
This is an excellant build for ganking NPC's in GvG.

Deadly Arts variant
I use a variation of this build; works amazingly in AB and PvE. Very effective skill chain including huge unblockable+unblindable damage (serious, even without Spirit's Strength) and finishing off with a Deep Wound. It's a lot more offensively based, with no self healing (flame away...), relying on the +15 armor/+103 hp from Vital Weapon with Ghost Forge armor. Hence its use in AB (bring a healer, kill quickly, or just rez and repeat) or PvE (NF hench monks are great; my heroes are even better). At first I was doubtful of my survivability, but in both of those situations, I've found I'm solid enough to either take hits while I kill, or survive until a monk gets to me - remarkably few deaths. Anyway, try it before you bash it:

Attributes and Skills

Equipment Tain 13:05, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * +15% (while enchanted) Zealous daggers of Enchanting
 * Emissary's Armor or Ghost Forge insignia
 * Runes: Superior Spawning Power, Superior Vigor, Minor Communing, 2x Attunement/Vitae
 * Over time, I've found that although Sight Beyond Sight keeps blind off you beautifully, Wielder's Remedy is better for general use (longer duration, shorter recharge, less focused effect)... especially if you know you're not going to encounter blindness :P Tain 15:44, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Possible Varient?
Attributes and Skills

The drop of one rank from spawning to allow restoration up two ranks seems like a fair trade off for the survivablity, the overall damage difference is trivial.-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 04:19, 9 April 2007 (CDT) Or...

Replacing Communing w/ Channeling I'm not 100% sure if splinter hits your target though.-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 04:25, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

History of Build
The above is a copy of the build history prior to archive. --Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 01:55, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * (cur) (last) 02:40, 1 May 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 13:54, 15 April 2007 71.166.122.233 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 16:39, 9 April 2007 69.140.169.44 (Talk) (→Usage)
 * (cur) (last) 16:37, 9 April 2007 69.140.169.44 (Talk) (→Equipment)
 * (cur) (last) 10:27, 27 March 2007 Stexe (Talk | contribs) (→Counters - Updated weakness counter to be attributes minus 1)
 * (cur) (last) 10:21, 27 March 2007 192.231.40.3 (Talk) (→Notes)
 * (cur) (last) 15:11, 17 March 2007 87.64.196.196 (Talk) (→Minor Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 15:03, 17 March 2007 87.64.196.196 (Talk) (→Major Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 22:06, 4 March 2007 140.180.140.129 (Talk) (→Equipment - Integrating the Ghost Forge Insignia suggestion)
 * (cur) (last) 22:07, 18 February 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (rv, that isn't a variant ffs, it has 5 diff skills and a diff second profession and attributes)
 * (cur) (last) 21:43, 18 February 2007 71.71.11.200 (Talk) (→Major Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 21:42, 18 February 2007 71.71.11.200 (Talk) (→Major Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 21:39, 18 February 2007 71.71.11.200 (Talk) (→Major Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 19:20, 15 February 2007 69.139.190.44 (Talk) (→Counters)
 * (cur) (last) 20:12, 10 February 2007 Ocelot never (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 18:31, 8 February 2007 130.65.109.104 (Talk) (→Usage)
 * (cur) (last) 15:01, 1 February 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (rv.)
 * (cur) (last) 15:00, 1 February 2007 86.128.83.91 (Talk) (→Attributes and Skills)
 * (cur) (last) 03:03, 30 January 2007 142.161.45.45 (Talk) (→Equipment)
 * (cur) (last) 18:20, 17 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 14:49, 17 January 2007 BrianG (Talk | contribs) m (added cats to tested tag)
 * (cur) (last) 14:49, 14 January 2007 Aleks (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 12:47, 12 January 2007 Gredinus (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 10:13, 5 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Counters)
 * (cur) (last) 10:10, 5 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Counters)
 * (cur) (last) 20:39, 4 January 2007 66.73.222.143 (Talk) (→Major Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 17:41, 4 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (Sorry, no PvE. =P)
 * (cur) (last) 14:39, 3 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Major Variants - ugh - spare points)
 * (cur) (last) 14:39, 3 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Major Variants - musta been drunk when i added deadly arts here... (cept i dont drink))
 * (cur) (last) 13:27, 3 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Notes - Communing lowered, removed vital weap notes.)
 * (cur) (last) 13:26, 3 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Attributes and Skills - adjusted attributes)
 * (cur) (last) 04:50, 3 January 2007 Akmdw (Talk | contribs) m (minor formatting edit)
 * (cur) (last) 04:49, 3 January 2007 Akmdw (Talk | contribs) m (category tags)
 * (cur) (last) 17:03, 1 January 2007 71.205.208.21 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 17:02, 1 January 2007 71.205.208.21 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 16:10, 1 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Major Varients - spelling/minor corrections)
 * (cur) (last) 16:07, 1 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Major Varients)
 * (cur) (last) 16:02, 1 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 16:02, 1 January 2007 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 09:45, 1 January 2007 Gem (Talk | contribs) m (not a team build)
 * (cur) (last) 12:42, 31 December 2006 70.179.98.170 (Talk) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 22:30, 28 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 22:30, 28 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 04:33, 28 December 2006 YuckyCougar (Talk | contribs) m (Grammar correction)
 * (cur) (last) 04:32, 28 December 2006 YuckyCougar (Talk | contribs) m (Spelling correction)
 * (cur) (last) 04:27, 28 December 2006 YuckyCougar (Talk | contribs) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 03:22, 28 December 2006 68.226.178.120 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 01:29, 28 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m ((+tested) (3-0))
 * (cur) (last) 01:29, 28 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 11:24, 19 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (→Notes)
 * (cur) (last) 14:47, 18 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m