User talk:PanSola/The Spirit Challenge/0.05

Needs something to deal with Signets. Specifically, a team of 8 /Me's with Unnatural Signet. Entrea   [Talk]  03:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, didn't read the main page. Twelve /Me's. Probably mostly N/ or E/ to get mostly non-harmful effects, with a couple or three Holy Haste/Glimmer/Healer's Boon M/Me's for hard-to-interrupt-while dazed healing... Destroyed.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Between extended casting time, an AoE interrupts, and knockdowns, a team of Dervishes might actually have a higher DPS than Unnatural Signet spam? With Dervishes, the monks can stay out of spirit range and heal too, whereas with Mesmers, monks need to come close and risk being dazed. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the challenge is in the speed, not doability. This is not meant to be impossible.  It's a race. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * True. Twelve Banishing Strike dervishes or such could probably take everything out pretty fast.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Are my spirits causing so little DPS that you really can ignore healing completely? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Dervishes have various assorted heals, several of which actually depend on the enchantments being removed. Hard to tell how much damage the spirits would be doing without actual testing, but I'd think 13 spirits vs 12 players wouldn't individually do enough damage to kill them if they had even token self-heals.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, should I toss in more conditions and/or reduce their durations? I was kind of hoping by having virtually constant Spiteful Spirit, Fragility, and lots of conditions flying around, that damage will actually matter (in 0.04 it was just a minor annoyance). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The "remove Glyph" seems a bit weak for ele's. Perhaps add in some energy loss or something. Also, the note on the "Lyssian Epidemical Spirit of Fragile Dreams" is not correct, and what's the point of the abbadon spirit's effect on warriors if the "Ursan Raging Spirit of Echoing Roar" already causes permanent weakness on everything? Perhaps make nr2's effect on wars that they lose a few strikes of adrenaline. And finally: the raven spirit seems a bit underpowered. Raise the block to 25% I'd say.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 06:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that /E is pretty much a safe secondary against Chaotic Toes, but without Glyph Removal, Glyph of Sacrifice will just pwn the challenge. And I am not sure if having Chaotic Toes do TWO things to eles is being unfair or not )-:  Good catch on Warrior btw.  As for Raven Spirit, I was worried that making it too high might discourage all weapon-based builds... Would 25% block simply drive everyone to use Mesmer builds? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Umm, Adrenaline denial would just make /W a safe secondary. Gotta find something that also hurt casters while keeping it thematic... -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, that's right... But weakness is already applied by that other spirit, and I'm not really sure what else would hinder a warrior. Perhaps giving some sort of Barbs effect on wars (since they got high armor)? And the raven: you're right, so perhaps boosting his attack effect would be better. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 09:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The only other thematic Raven thing to add would be blind... Which probably discourages weapon builds even more than 25% block rate though >_<"""  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Like perma-weakness (minus sixty-six per cent damage) is not extremely discouraging. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Most of the extra damage from skills still work just fine, if you overlook the attribute reduction that casters also suffer. A weapons-without-skills build would be really screwed, but with attack skills I'd consider weapons-build still viable with perma-weak.  But then, I *could* be very wrong.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * True. But seeing "-50" rather than "-166" is a major difference (Haven't done math, just an example). AoHM and Asuran Scan are, for what I know, adding to Base damage, and are thus affected by Weakness. Weakness also reduces attributes by 1, making you another bit weaker. Weapon-based teams are fucked anyhow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Chaotic Toes on Ele
I modified it to increase skill activation time by 2 seconds. I think this will still address Glyph of Sacrifice/Essence issues while also have an impact on most builds. What I'm not sure is if this would completely shut down the use of Primary or Secondary eles... -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 02:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, since the "Lyssian Distracting Cry Spirit of Conundrum" already doubles casting time, that means that any spell you cast will take at least 4.5 seconds to cast, or doesn't the conundrum affect the extra cast time? And since that same spirit attacks every 2 seconds interupting and disabling stuff, I'd say that it will indeed shut down any E/X or X/E. I'd say reduce to 1 seconds or at least make it unaffected by conudrum.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 04:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)