GuildWiki talk:Sock puppetry

/Archive/

an unpolicy...
still a policy? I'll review in the morning. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 07:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there's not exactly a way to break this, so I would challenge calling it a policy (same is true with a few other ones that are currently policy). I'm merely documenting some stuff that people should keep in mind in the absence of a policy, since this topic comes up every once in a while. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Banstick waving?
After reviewing the history of User:F G, I am thoroughly opposing any accusations of sockpuppetry, except when
 * the evidence is completely clear, and
 * the alledged sockpuppeteering has had significant to major impact on the operation of the wiki.

Rationale:
 * 1) Sockpuppet accusations tend to create wikidrama or exacerbate any drama already present
 * 2) placed on a new user's talkpage, they tend to come across as weird and make it hard for the user to feel at home on the wiki.

For that reason, a sockpuppet accusation and the accompanying drama needs some benefit (i.e. the discovery that the wiki suffered from it) to offset the wikidrama, and there had better be good evidence, or there'll just be drama and no impact.

--◄mendel► 19:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I also have a general stance against accusation of sockpupptry, but I wouldn't wave a banstick unless the accusation is outright hostile and confrontational when the accused account has done nothing proactively disrupting to the wiki. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * See User talk:LongCat. I don't like how this played out at all. --◄mendel► 00:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Meh. I still think if properly worded it doesn't have to be harmful and doesn't have to be banned.  See the last sentence of the current language of the article. If you see a need to ban, you have the right to do so as long as it's a case-by-case basis on the particular circumstances of the situation.  I just oppose a blank ban. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not advocating a blanket ban. But that last sentence you refer to is insufficient, it's as if you ask someone you meet whether they have an infectious disease. Word it as politely as you will, that person is going to think you're very strange, unless they know you better. (Well, even people who know me better think I'm a bit strange, but you know what I mean.) --◄mendel► 00:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The worthiness of a ban is proportional to how much harm the "ban-ee" has done through their actions. In this particular case, while it was certainly not the nicest thing to do, I don't believe any bans are warranted since it does not seem like any significant harm was done.
 * Accusations of sockpuppetry are very srs bsns and should not be thrown around idly. While I think there are few legitimate reasons for it, it all comes down to intent of course. For example, if one registered a sock for purposes of an event (User:Spirit of Wintersday comes to mind), then that is harmless. Even if one can "prove" a sock beyond a shadow of a doubt, I don't see the need unless they have done something disruptive/ban-worthy, since then of course the "puppetmaster" must also serve sentence.
 * By the way I am curious what sparked the sudden interest in this policy, since even though that is our most famous sockpuppetry case it is quite old. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not about "this particular case", I wanted to find out/establish what the consensus is. Explaining my interest is offtopic here, I can do that on irc sometime. --◄mendel► 01:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Am I really the only one who thinks intentional deceit is inherently harmful, particularly on a public wiki where transparency is paramount? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:46, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if you are the only one, but I know I disagree with you. In fact, I'm going to intentionally lie about my age (and certain other bits of my personal information) if anybody asks me.  There is a difference between transparency and revealing everything about yourself, and I do find sock puppetry as being in the in-between gray zone. The three bullet points in the current article greatly sums up my mentality/stance on the topic of sock puppetry.  I encourage you to go through the entire article, then raise specific issues/questions you have with the stuff in (or omitted in) the article. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Considering that sock puppetry itself is not established as a bad thing on the wiki, the better analogy IMO would be as if you ask someone you meet whether they have a Byal-Ikandis, or if they happen to be Catholic. If you find being associated with Catholics as offensive, I apologize, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with asking the question. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that an analogy to being a sockpuppet, or to accusing a sockpuppet? Either way it's not very good. I am Catholic, btw. And I have yet to meet a constructive sock puppet. All the ones that have appeared on GuildWiki in my time have either been destructive (User:Banjthulu,User:R.Phalange) or useless (User:Light Kitty). [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That was an analogy to accusing a sockpuppet, in response to mendel (see indentation to find mendel's post I was replying to). As for "All the ones that have appeared on GuildWiki in my time have either been destructive or useless", you probably left out "or undiscovered".  How do you know I am not somebody else's sockpuppet? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I just do. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I would sadly inform you that you are wrong, but then I also decided to lie about random bits of my personal information (as opposed to always lie or never lie). Besides, even if your claim is true, two out of the three bullet points already fully address your claim.  If the puppet is destructive, we deal with it appropriately, so it gets banned.  There's no need to hunt down the master.  If the master is acting benign, then it is better to exploit the master's ego by not banning it to get free labor that improves the wiki.  It saves energy, reduces drama, while improves the wiki.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Then the master could just create another sockpuppet, leading to wasted energy, increased drama, and widespread mayhem. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if we ban the master, the human behind the account can still do everything you mentioned, so banning the master doesn't stop anything. If the master is under a benign disguise, it puts us one user account short to exploit for improving the wiki.  If the master does nothing, then it doesn't matter.  If the mater is also acting disruptively, then we can deal with it without spending energy to prove sock pupptry.  In all cases, the human can always create more accounts.  So nothing is gained from the witchhunt. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It discredits the master and makes others less likely to trust him in the future, which in a highly integrated community like the one we have for Guild Wars goes quite a long way toward discouraging future actions. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * How integrated is this community? o_O""" I'd buy exploitation over this discouragement approach which I personally find vague.  In all my time here, the process of sock hunting itself have always created far more drama (due to the hunters) than the disruptions caused by the accused. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say that's not the fault of the accuser, but rather of the accused and the onlookers for reacting indignantly, particularly if the accuser has solid evidence. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)