Category talk:Collectable Drops

Template for collector item rewards
I'm considering a template based on the collector reward item format I've used. Are these valid assumptions?
 * Collector items are all blue names
 * Damage and AF/Energy bonuses are always white
 * Properties are always blue (fast recast on smiting prayers, etc)
 * Conditions (required attribute level, change %, while hexed, etc) are all grey and applied inline after properties.

I'm thinking the template could be like this: cir-start cir-name cir-dam cir-en cir-prop cir-cond (conditions applied inline after damage, propery, or bonuses) cir-end

Should the table that houses these items (the 2 column structure used to pair up items) be another template or a normal convention? Adam - I've made the template based on these assumptions and structure. There is a page about it here. Adam

Isn't great to have the image of the item in order to have better visual ? stonebeard

Collector Items that no one wants
Any thoughts on if we should include collector items that currently have no collectors that want them? I'm thinking of the items that you find in the Ring of Fire and surrounding areas, like the Igneous Humps (similar to the Hardened Hump and Icy Hump) and I know the Hydras in the area drop a claw item too. As far as I know there are no collectors for these items currently, should they be included now as in future updates there may be collectors for them? --Rainith 11:42, 03 Aug 2005 (PDT)

AFAIK, whether a collector will take an item is what distinguishes collector items from salvage items in general. All collector items are salvage items, but not all salvage items are collector items. If someone creates a page with all the items listed, I'd suggest a format that starts as a chart of salvage items, as this one from gwonline, but those items which are also collector items would click thru to our existing collector item stubs. (I take your point that a.net could turn a salvage item into a collector item in a future update.) --Krissy 10:10, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Images
Are we bothering with images for these? -Caspian


 * So far I haven't been. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't though.  Put up an example if you have something in mind.  --Rainith 01:53, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * How about something like this: Enslavement Stone? - Caspian
 * I think we should use the pic of the item from the inventory screen. Just my personal opinion, but that way all the pictures would be of the same size (griffon wings) and some items (skale fins) don't show up very well when they're on the ground.  Also I think we should use an item box like those found in this article: Flute.  Just my $0.02.  --Rainith 03:03, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)

Collectable sub-categories
Tetris, for this and other items that you recategorized last night/today.. I think the sub group name should indicate that it is a collector item immediately. e.g. "Collectable Seeds" instead of plant seeds. The reason is that while we can make all sorts of categorizations, we must not impair functionality. If I land into "Gloom Seed" and see that it's categorized as a "plant seed," well, duh! :) But I won't know that this means it's a collector's item.

So, I suggest we move each of these new categories into something that says they are "collector items" just like we did with skills (Warrior skills, Air Magic Skills) let's do that here too. "Collectable Seeds" "Collectable Hides" and "Collectable Horns"... --Karlos 09:08, 8 November 2005 (EST)


 * I started off simply calling them "Carapaces", "Seeds", "Eyes", etc. Then I noticed that in some cases there is room for missunderstandings, for example "Eyes" (Rider collectibles) might be confused with the Elementalist Headgear "Eyes", so I put the species name as a prefix for each collectible subcategory. I wouldn't mind adding another prefix or suffix to indicate that those are collector item subcategories. The names might get a bit lenghty though.
 * One thing that we might want to reconsider here is whether collector items should be listed under the main category "collector items" as well as the respective sub-category. If the Gloom Seed was categorized under Plant Seeds as well as Collector Items, the connection would be pretty clear.
 * One last thing: If I land into Hand Axe and see that it's categorized as an Axe, well, duh! There is no indication that "Axes" is a subcategory of "Weapons". Okay, okay, that was a bad example, as everybody knows that axes are weapons. What I'm trying to say is that if we look around a bit we might find more cases of non-self-explanary subcategories. We need to make a general decision whether we want to show the whole tree structure in the category name or just the last branch. --Tetris L 05:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that kind of information belongs directly in the article somewhere. Using categorization to provide it can be a slippery slope.. --Rezyk 06:33, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * How about we keep the sug-categories named as they are now, but also keep the items in Category:Collector Items if they have a collector that will trade for them? The sub-categories could even be moved out of the Collector Items category and just put in the Items category.  That way if someone is looking specifically for Collector Items, they can find that in the category, but we also keep the species specific drops in seperate categories?  Just my (sleep-deprived) thoughts.  --Rainith 18:36, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Keeping all collector items under Category:Collector Items even if they are also in a sub-category would be an option, but in no case should we treat collector items differently depending on whether there is a collector for it or not. A collector item is a collector item per definition, even if there is no collector for it (yet). --Tetris L 12:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, but where do you see on an Umbral Eye for example the words "Collector Item"? All it shows you when you look at it is the name and the value, just the same as a Skale Fin.  Calling these Collector Items is an artificial and arbitrary decision, they are really just items.  Ask yourself, "If there is no collector for an item, and nothing in the item description that calls it a 'collector item', than is it really a collector item?"  --Rainith 12:25, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * EDIT - As a side note, I've met people on the game who when they say "Collector Items" are refering to the items that collectors give you (armor, weapons, scrolls, etc...). --Rainith 12:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Tetris you appear to conflate the term "collector items" with two different meanings, which most people call by two different names. Your first meaning is all salvageable items, regardless of whether an npc collects them. Most people and websites, in my experience, call these "salvage items." Your second use is shared by most people: (salvageable) items that an npc collects. Collector items are a sub-class of (what most people call) salvage items. A chart of all salvage items -- and the salvaged materials they render -- would be a good service to GuildWiki users. The salvage items guide at gwonline, for instance, is badly in need of an update. But, a salvage items guide is significantly different from a collectors items guide. Given that collector item info is among the most sought-after information, I'd urge keeping easy, intuitive use at the forefront of consideration. "What is the shortest, easiest path we can provide to a user looking for info on a collector item?" --Krissy 15:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * AFAIK, Charr Hide is the UNIQUE EXCEPTION where a "Salvage Item" is being collected. It is also the unique exception where a crafting material (not to mention it's a rare crafting material) is offered for the salvage item.  I don't care what other fansites and what "most other people" you have encountered say, when there is direct in-game evidence to the contary.  Basically, there are two types of common stackable mob drops.  One type says they are "Salvage Item" in their description, the other type does not.  Therefore, I will call it MIS-information if anyone calles a Stormy Eye a salvage item.  And if you want to argue that Stormy Eye can be salvaged for crafting material, well, so can a raven staff.
 * I would consider "Collectable Items" to mean all stackable mob drops that are NOT labeled as "Salvage Item", plus the one exception of Charr Hide. If the game is altered later so this categorization is no longer valid, we will deal with it then.  But for now, that seems to be what is most sensible.-PanSola 16:12, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Please look at the comment I made 2 sections above, for a different way of talking and thinking about (and organizing) salvage & collector items. The collector items page is my single most used page on guildwiki and, for me, the new format is less intuitive and more burdensome. The simple list was a quick, functional reference, for all my collector item questions. Consider from the point of view of a first-time visitor who wants to find information on "spiny seed:" she doesn't care if spiny seed is a subcategory of seed; she just wants to know who collects, and what she can get for, spiny seeds. Anything that stands between her and the answer feels like an obstacle rather than an aid. I realize that I'm unknown here, and I readily admit that I don't understand everything in the foregoing discussion. I'll be grateful if you'll consider my input. Thanks. --Krissy 10:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Krissy: The info that you want is just one click away. Once you have reached the article Spiny Seed (which you can reach various ways) you got the info. The article lists the collectors. Click their names and you got all their details, their location and what they trade in return for the Spiny Seeds. --Tetris L 12:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This seems to me to be an example of making something harder for some end users of the site without having a good enough reciprical benefit for the site itself. Just my $0.02.  --Rainith 12:25, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * EDIT - I may be wrong, and I just don't see the benefit to the site, I did not mean to imply otherwise. Sorry if I did.  --Rainith 12:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The devil is in the details. Looking for spiny seed, I didn't find it. So, I scanned for "seed", and couldn't find it either. So, I did a Ctrl-F for "seed," and found it under "Plant Seed." Then it was one additional click away. I'm just trying to keep you focused on user-experience, and this feels to me like a degradation of that experience. That's my piece. I'll bow out and live with whatever y'all decide to do. --Krissy 15:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I may not have been clear in my post above. I was actually in agreement with Krissy, in that Collector Items should be in that category.  If they are also in their component categories (Plant Seeds or whatever), that's fine, but people shouldn't have to click on Collector Items and then click on Plant Seeds to find the elusive Spiny Seed.  --Rainith 15:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Eh, if you are looking for info *that* specific, why don't you just type "Spiny Seed" into the search box? That'll take you directly to the article... Though I find it more informative to sub-catagorize by region.  The "type" is really just of interesting tibit value, but not that helpful most of the time. -PanSola 15:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * BTW, I also agree with Rainth that the items should remain in the main category. -PanSola 16:12, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Because, like many people, I have a bookmark directly to the "Collector Items" page, from which a single click used to take me to any collector item I wanted, be it spiny, scorched, alpine, or any other seed or item. --Krissy 16:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Naming...
If I get a 20/20 firestaff from a collector, I call it a "collector firestaff". If I got a full set of Stylish Attire from the collectors, I call that my collecter (stylish) armor. For that reason, I vote to call the things that collectors actually collect "Collectable Items" to reduce confusion. I know that'll be a lot of pages to edit and stuff, but should add clarity to the wiki. -PanSola 15:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Or you could continue to call them "Collector Items" and give the name "Collector Reward Items" to the items that collectors give in return. You'd still talk about a "collector 20/20 fire staff" or "stylish collector armor," but they're members of the class "Reward Items" as a general reference. At least, that's how the people I play with mostly talk about it. "Salvage Items," "Collector Items," and "(Collectors) Reward Items." That said, "Collector Items" --> "Collectable Items?" [Shrugs] It's a minor change (from end-user's POV) and doesn't do any harm that I can see. --Krissy 16:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)