User talk:One Three Three Seven/skills with similar icons/Archive 1

This page sure is growing fast... --Gimmethegepgun 00:45, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea. :) [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)


 * Just 5 hours since creation and it's already 22 long :/ --Gimmethegepgun 00:57, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't know so many people would notice it. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 09:07, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Man, some of these are SUPPOSED to look alike (the touches) and some are just set alike because of stuff like they're both a guy running (Burning Speed / Dash)...also Extinguish looks like Ash Blast and Gale. 12:08, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * So? You have to admit that some of them have no relation to each other (ie. Obsidian Flesh and Soothing Images) yet still look very much alike. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 12:36, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Energy Surge and Ereventing Charge are the same icon, just recolored.
 * Nice catch, I added it. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 15:09, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Maybe we should start numbering these things? --Gimmethegepgun 18:15, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually I was thinking about it but I don't know how that will fit into the table. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 23:46, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Alright I just numbered them all. If anyone doesn't like it then feel free to change it. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 23:54, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Well, I made a userbox, check it out: --Gimmethegepgun 00:30, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Woot! Almost to 50! (Nice userbox) [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)


 * Feel free to use it. Red and black cause those are ANet's colors :P --Gimmethegepgun 01:00, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Can Conditions be included? I ask because Deep Wound looks a lot like Dismember... -Gameboyguy13 02:55, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think its meant to be like that. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 09:21, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * To me, Dodge and Storm Chaser look similar, as do Dash and Escape.Shadowcrest 22:17, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Then add them --Gimmethegepgun 13:03, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Can't beleive I never saw these  The Paintballer (T/C) 20:40, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

Skills with Obvious Relations
Since I sort of consider this thing a community project now, and I am not going to go and make any big changes without some of the consent of others just because it is in my userspace. I wanted to propose that we remove all of the skills that are obviously related (ie.Storm Djinn's Haste and Flame Djinn's Haste). I feel that those are meant to have the similar icons, and weren't just a lack of creativity ^^. Please tell me what you think and we could come to some sort of conclusion. (Edit) List of skills that I feel need to be removed (please don't get offended if you posted those skills) If you feel that any that I listed don't need to be removed or any that I haven't listed do need to be removed then please suggest them.--One Three Three Seven 09:19, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Vampiric Bite and Vampiric Touch
 * Spike Trap and Barbed Trap
 * Healer's Covenant and Divine Boon
 * Storm Djinn's Haste and Flame Djinn's Haste
 * Dual Shot and Triple Shot
 * Lyssa's Balance and Grenth's Balance
 * I agree that SOME of the skills in the article are MEANT to be similar. They should have a separate table. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 16:01, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm looking at some and see no relation in picture to the others... --The Imperialist
 * I agree that they should still be noted, but could have a separate section. Perrsun 16:56, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I added a second section. Feel free to make it prettier, cuz i'm not good at that sort of thing.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 20:05, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Skill(s) Removal
If you have any arguments against skills that you feel need to be removed, then please post your thoughts here. I don't want everyone going in and removing whatever skills they want. --One Three Three Seven 20:05, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Intensity and Fear Me!, Puutrid Explosion and Weilders Strike, Blood Ritual and Black Lotus Strike, Lighning Hammer and Enraged Smash, Vile Touch and Mend Ailment, Flurry looks nothing like Barrage, Scourge Healing with Air Attunement, Clamor of Souls and Gaze from beyond. More will be added later ^^ The Imperialist
 * Wanna explain a little? I agree with some of those, but for Air Attunement and Scourge Healing, it's like they just swapped the colors and flipped it upside down. Clamor is like Gaze at a slight angle. Blood Ritual is very similar to BLS, just in the other direction. They don't have to be rip-offs, just similar looking. --Heelz 20:28, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Putrid Explosion and Wielder's strike both look like they are freezed in mid-splode. Intensity and Fear Me i agree with you a little there. Lightning Hammer and Enraged smash are both hammers coming into the screen and the head of the hammers are at the opposite corner. Flurry is a bunch of swords coming from the corner, as is barrage except with arrows. Their backgrounds are very similar just different colors. Mend Ailment and Vile Touch look alike as they both have a hand pointed, with fingers curled in the same way, and a little glowing thing at the tip of the pointing finger. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 20:41, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

I don't like Energy Burn and Mend Ailment because even though they're both glowy circles, the designs are totally different... 20:34, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You have a point but there aren't many skills that just have a fancy circle for its icon. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 20:41, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

I propose to remove all of the Healer's Covenant, Divine Boon, Healing Breeze section entirely, as it is just the symbol of Healing Prayers, and is probably on many more skill icons than just these. I feel that the common characteristic is too common and universal in ALL skills to warrant a place in this article. I also propose that we move Heal Other and Heal Area back into the main table, because they are essentially different in use and their icons are almost identical. --One Three Three Seven 20:45, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * /agree I just had fun with adding 2 others cause...i could. For the Mend Ailment, check RC - Glowy Circles FTW! I also think that Weilder's Strike/Putrid Explosion should be removed. Sure, mid explosion, but so is Ignite Arrows [[Image:Ignite Arrows.jpg]] >.< Doesn't make it look the same. [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * I also am going to remove that Healing Prayers crap ATM. Hehe, if you look at the revision before I do this, it will say 1..2..3..4..5..7 [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * Just look at Wielder's Strike and Putrid Explosions... Both of the explosions form from little balls (unlike Ignite Arrows), its just that Wielder's Strike is a little more progressed in its explosion-ness. You have to admit they look similar. (EDIT): I took a look at the skills again, and decided that they weren't THAT similar. (Note: I still think do look alike, if not as much as I was saying). I have removed them.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 21:26, 7 August 2007 (CDT)


 * We're talking near-identical. BLS and BR are just 2 knife/dagger things.  We would have to include almost all dagger skills if thats all it takes.  and Enraged smash and Lightning Hammer just have the hammers in common.  And just becasue it has a finger touching something doesn't make them alike. O_o The Imperialist
 * You're obviously thinking too narrow mindedly. We aren'y looking for skills that are copy-cats of each other. And most of the dagger skills do not look like BLS or BR. Critical Strike and Sharpen Daggers are the closest I could find that are similar to BLS and BR, and they aren't close to looking like BLS or BR. I also looked at all the hammer skills. Crushing Blow and Fierce Blow are the most similar to Enraged and Lightning Hammer that I could find, and they arent that close either. I really don't want to go through all the skills and look for another skill with a pointing finger, but you can go through and find some. Please tell me which ones and then we will see if there is enough, or if they are related enough to warrant the removal of those two skills.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 22:13, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * [[Image:Healing Touch.jpg]] [[Image:Holy Strike.jpg]] [[Image:Test of Faith.jpg]] [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * [[Image:Rigor Mortis.jpg]] [[Image:Feast of Corruption.jpg]] --Shadowcrest 22:24, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Fierce Blow is closer to Enraged than it is Lighning Hammer. The Imperialist
 * Healing touch is facing you when you look at it, Holy Strike has two fingers pointing and is facing away, and Test of Faith has fingers curled in a different way and doesn't have a glowy thing at the end. I'll add Rigor Mortis and Feast of Corruption. And personally I think that Enraged and Lightning are similar mainly because of the angle the hammers are set at. None of the other hammer skills are set like that.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 22:54, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I am most definitely on your side with the Mend/Vile. You just said finger icons, so I gave more. They weren't similar, just finger icons. [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * [[Image:Rigor Mortis.jpg]] [[Image:Feast of Corruption.jpg]][[Image:Chilblains.jpg]]Shadowcrest 10:38, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Found another: [[Image:Flesh of My Flesh.jpg]] [[Image:Purge Conditions.jpg]] (actually, I stole it off the Flesh talk page; but it was an unregistered user, so I can't really give them credit.)Shadowcrest 19:12, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

I don't think that Well of Darkness and the other one should be in there. They are both wells and they are too many other wells with similar icons that we can't put them all on there. Agree or Disagree?--One Three Three Seven 21:55, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, that was me who added those in. So should we get rid of them completely or move to "Meant to Look Alike"?--marcopolo47 11:41, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Meant. [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 14:11, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

Impale/Breath of Fire should be removed, imo. The Paintballer (T/C) 20:30, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * /agree--[[Image:Marcopolo47 sig.jpg]] (T)(C) 20:31, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I agree. I only put them up there because it looked like the same girl with her head bent down. It seems Anet loves using that.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 15:55, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Pardon me if this is already mentioned, but
aren't Spirit Burn and Grasping Earth rather similar? Seb2net 10:17, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * How about Anthem of Flame and IW?--marcopolo47 12:29, 10 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Spirit Burn and Grasping Earth yes. Anthem of Flame and IW, no not really --Gimmethegepgun 14:58, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Supposed To Look Alike
That's what I think. 16:35, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) Natural Temper / Aggressive Refrain
 * 2) Power Flux / Power Leech
 * 3) Energizing Finale / Leader's Zeal
 * 4) Silverwing Slash / Standing Slash
 * 5) "Go For The Eyes!" / "Help Me!"
 * 6) Zojun's Shot / Needling Shot
 * Just because they are in the same attribute doesn't mean they are meant to look alike. Zojun's Shot and Needling Shot could have had different(er) icons. They aren't really alike in function except that they are bow attacks. GFTE and Help Me! use the same exact person (same armor and posture) just in different parts of the image. They aren't that similar in function. Same with Energizing Finale and Leader's Zeal. The "icons that are meant to be alike" section is for those that are alike in function, barbed trap and spike trap are essentially the same function. Lyssa and Grenth's Balance as they "balance" something between your target and you, whether it be enchants or health. Vampiric Touch/Bite and Storm/Flame Djinn's haste are obvious. As for heal other and heal area, I don't think they should be there. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 22:21, 11 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Right, they should probably be in the normal list --Gimmethegepgun 22:25, 11 August 2007 (CDT)


 * What? Why should function matter when this is about how they look? [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 12:22, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Because certain skills (such as Vampiric Bite and Touch), have the exact same function and it is likely that Anet developers gave them similar icons for a reason. The rest of the icons we believe are just side effects of laziness. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 17:38, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

MOAR!
GIVE ME MOAR LOOK-A-LIKES!!@~!AASHFHGF &mdash; Shady Guy   14:57, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe you could help find some >.< --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 21:53, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * How about Quivering Blade and Dragon Slash? That would probably go into the meant to look alike category.  Same sword possession.--Gigathrash 22:06, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm adding them to the normal section. They may be sword attacks but that doesn't mean they have the same function.--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 23:03, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

echo/plague tough
you got echo/plague touch in there twice (the first part). nr 9 and nr 43. --El Nazgir 04:56, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

Beacuae it's been echoed. Ancient Chaos 21:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Paragon
Look at Paragon skills quick reference, and notice how all those aria's, ballads, anthems that got this patter around the smaller image copy the center image from other skills. Basically it's just other skill with the pattern around it... I'm too lazy to point them out though ^^ --Rotfl Mao 14:54, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

Wells
Okey, I dont want to get into revert wars here, so I need everyone's opinion on this so I can change it for good. I disagree that Well of Darkness and Well of Ruin should be in here at all. There are too many wells in the game to list them here, we had the same problem with skills with the Healing Prayers icon in them. all look alike and there are just too many of them to list in this page. I think that we should remove these completely from the list or at least give an example two in the "meant to look alike" list. We have already had this discussion above, yet I need everyones opinion (again) so we don't go into revert wars.--<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 18:06, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, (no pun intended) if you are going to put up wells, put up glyphs too. They all look alike and I can't even tell them apart. In any case, they all look alike because all skills of that type have that icon. Same goes for Glyphs, item spells, and chants.&mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥
 * Item Spells and Chants belong on the list, since none of the item spells really look very much alike except that they show the face of someone, and Chants have nothing in common really. However, Wells should probably be avoided for the most part --Gimmethegepgun 18:28, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree. If they are on there at all, they should be on the similar's list. [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 18:34, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * After reading the arguments above, I also agree that they should be removed from the list, and I'm the one who put them up there in the first place.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 sig.jpg]] (T)(C) 14:22, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Blood and Profane are the same image, just Profane has a thing coming out the top and Blood has stuff dripping down. Suffering and Power are the same also, with Power having lightning coming out of it. they could be in 2 different sections, Blood and Profane, and Power and Suffering. Metalmiser 03:52, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, you bring up a good point. However, there is one thing you didn't notice that should make all of them together: They are all the exact same base image (though 2 are flipped) with some added extra coming out of it --Gimmethegepgun 13:51, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Huzzah for EotN
Note the knees and white stuff Seb2net 14:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Warrior skills
noone ever noticed that alot of the warrior skills?(like boa, rage of ntouka and stuff) all have lukas(yeah the warrior with the huge ego) in them--Fighterbitsj 11:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

50!
Yay! 50! --Gimmethegepgun 14:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I added no. 50 what do I win? :D Seb2net 15:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A big wet sloppy kiss from One Three Three Seven. [[Image:ShadyGuySigByMe.jpg]] 15:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Which I am sure that Shadyguy will be willing to sub in for me then --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 00:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Escape, Dash, Burning Speed, + "Make Haste!"
Marcopolo47 removed Burning Speed from #12, replacing it with Make Haste!. One Three Three Seven (or anyone else capable), can you fix the table to put Burning Speed in with those 3? Since they do look quite similar, particurly Dash+Burning Speed.

Do these qualify?
Izoh 00:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say yes, I'll add them --Gimmethegepgun 21:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Heal Area and Heal Other
I think these are mean't to look alike and Infuse looks nothing like either of them. But since I have little experience with tables I will probably end up messing the page up so if some one else could edit (if you agree) that'd be lovely. <font color="Black">L' <font color="Maroon">yra <font color="Black">V' <font color="Maroon">alo  22:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Why would two skills that heal in COMPLETELY opposite ways be meant to look alike?--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 22:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, they are the EXACT same picture, except Heal Area has more points on the star and a circle around it, so they quite obviously intended them to look alike. Also, Infuse looks like it because it looks like a pair of sideways Heal Other hands with the ball of light between the 2 --Gimmethegepgun 00:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also LwN and DwX are completly different and they're "meant to look alike". Why not Other and Area, at least the both deal with the healing mechanic. <font color="Black">L' <font color="Maroon">yra <font color="Black">V' <font color="Maroon">alo [[Image:LVS.JPG]] 15:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because all item spells have faces on them, thats why those are "meant to look alike". However, there are only three healing skills with hands on their icon. Most healing skills have that cross/ribbon thing. Point is, the designers could have made Heal Area look completely different than Heal Other, whereas in the item spells they couldn't do much different or original. Am I making sense? Am I talking in logical sentences?--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 17:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that those 3 healing spells all came from the same campaign and even the same area in it. It's likely that the devs went with that style for monk skills near the start since the icons get more diverse further in. -Ezekiel 04:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Item spells
I'm not saying that these are bad ideas because I've wondered whether to post them or not. I just wanna say that there are way too many of 'em. They all have the same layout, and I think that there are just too many to post. I think we should AT LEAST move them to the "meant to look alike" section. Agree or disagree? --<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 21:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * All item spells (except for glaive) have similar icons. The same holds true for ballads, anthems, arias and choruses. Avatars as well have a similar style. Its linke to the skill type. &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 21:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd say either move them to the Meant to look alike section, OR just leave a note all item spells except for Destructive was Glaive have similar icons. --Shadowcrest 21:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The one with Blind Was Minsong is really alike, but the rest is just "meant to look alike". So I vote for moving em down, too. --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 22:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they should be moved. Also, Lively and Defiant are like the exact same picture except the hair is in different style and the face is a little different --Gimmethegepgun 22:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Gotta agree on the LwN and DwX, after looking at em for a bit. Wich is hard, 'cause I'm tired... sleeeep.... --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 22:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Changed them a bit.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 18:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

signets
Signet of Agony and Plague Signet.

Signet of Mystic Speed and Signet of Pious Restraint, and maybe Signet of Pious Light too.--El Nazgir 17:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd never noticed the two nerco sigs. The colours work well to hide how similar they are. -Ezekiel 04:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Also Signet of Lost Souls-- Xilarth The Wise   ||  Talk  23:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What are you saying that looks like? I can't see any similarity to the skulls on the necro sigs and definitely none to the dervish squares. -Ezekiel 03:11, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Only thing I can see would be the circular design --Gimmethegepgun 03:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

these? Doom Box 20:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, not really--[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 19:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought this one looked somewhat the same, -- Xilarth The Wise    ||  Talk  23:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * added for you --<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Shadowcrest 23:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Eh? Doom Box 02:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Breeze and Healsig
I don't think those should be there; there are 10 monk skills with that ankh symbol. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Shadowcrest 17:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I belive they should be put into Ment to look alike, notice the "Healing" infront of both.--Holylorgor 17:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree -- Xilarth The Wise 22:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * We should just make a note about all of the skills with the ankh symbol in front of it, because there are WAY too many to put all of them on here --Gimmethegepgun 14:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

blackout
How about HEROES Moon thingyand Blackout ? -- Feardrake. 00:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ADDADDADD!!!1 into the meant-to-look-alike category!--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * yes yes yes!!! --[[Image:Feardrake Sig.jpg|19px]] Feardrake. 00:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna put that into Blackout's trivia --Gimmethegepgun 15:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think heroes came after the release of prophecy, please check before adding the note. 86.193.104.26 17:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is why I removed it.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 17:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Go add the note to the Heroes Section the Wikipedia Hahaha--Holylorgor 21:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think most of these are a little bit of a stretch...
I hate to say it, but most of these only look alike if their subjects are similar... Ennervating Charge looks like Energy Surge because their subjects are similar... Some running skills have people running in their icons... It's not that surprising that people falling over show up in some of them...  Considering the number of skills, I'd say that maybe 1% or less are actually similar enough to be worth noting... Frozzen 20:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the running ones, but... you mentioned people falling over, so I'd assume you're talking about Backfire and Desperation Blow. The thing is, those use the exact same picture of that warrior. And this page is about skills that look similar, specifically ones that look similar but are nothing alike. Like Enervating and Surge --Gimmethegepgun 20:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)