User talk:Fyren4632

Old talk stuff. Older talk stuff.

User:66.176.85.30
Breaching of GW:1RV, I'm not allowed to revert again, could you have a look? Thanks. I'm not asking for a ban as I only just warned him, just for reverts. –Ichigo724 16:49, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Flourish comment
Why was my comment that flourish recharges pet attacks removed? Most things that work on attack skills do >>not<< work on pet attack skills. There was even a question on the talk page about it. If it's about the validity of the note, I tested that before adding it (Not a fifty five 19:15, 2 April 2007 (CDT))
 * Everything that works on attack skills works on pet attacks. --Fyren 20:01, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Really? so if someone put splinter weapon on me and I used pounce it would trigger? (Not a fifty five 20:03, 2 April 2007 (CDT))
 * Only if your character hits with pounce, which he will not. --Fyren 20:03, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * See:Chant. The majority affect attacks... but not pet attacks. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    20:06, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The issue is not that they don't affect pet attacks. Your character uses an attack skill but doesn't hit anything.  --Fyren 20:16, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

In any case, if this is true should I put a note about it on attack skills? Neither states that things working on attack skills work on pet attack skills. (Not a fifty five 20:19, 2 April 2007 (CDT))
 * Pet skills are listed as a subtype of attack skills on that page. --Fyren 20:22, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * My bad >.< Not a fifty five 20:26, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Divine Favor
Hi, this dude 195.199.77.193 has vandalized the Divine Favor page multiple times, I reverted it. Could you give him a ban and/or warning? P.S It costed me 30 seconds to scroll down... --Sig mA   05:18, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, I wouldn't ban him for that. You can warn him yourself if you want. --Fyren 05:27, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Meh, can you warn him? I'm at school atm, and all eachers are watching me, so I cant make long lines. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 05:31, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nvm, I warned him. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 05:35, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Defender of Ascalon
Sorry to bother you again, but 72.155.241.233 really vandalized. He blanked page and replaced it with GET A FUCKING LIFE etc. --Sig mA   05:39, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Xasxas blocked him already... --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 05:41, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yuppers, although Sigma, you can use you know! --Xasxas256 05:43, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Uh.. oh yea! Well, I tought I'd first inform an admin, cus maybe I'm doing something wrong.. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 05:44, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

the last revert on Template:Pestilence
While the anon shouldn't have changed it, what's the point of reverting it? It feels even more pointless than reverting an edit that changed color to colour, since in the case of the template it makes absolutely no difference except by reverting you make the server do more work. -User:PanSola 00:10, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Isn't the whole point of you writng the JS to make it easier for people to use the templates? Fixing screwy whitespace and placement of the pipes is the same thing.  --Fyren 02:22, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm, I didn't realize those are considered "screwy whitespace and placement of pipes", and I didn't realize they make it harder for people to use templates. I've now file those two pieces of information for reference, though without comprehension. -talk 18:50, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, tabs are screwy whitespace when in most browsers hitting tab is going to cause focus to change to the next element in the browser rather than inserting a tab. How many spaces a tab equals is not set in stone, so when someone tries to get things to line up with spaces, it might not line up for everyone.  Moving the pipes to the end is probably going to be confusing for people when they don't understand what they actually do, so uniformity is probably most important there.  --Fyren 19:00, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

how do i get to the sandbox to make a new article?
 * Sandbox. And I think we should put a link to it from the main page, no new user will ever find it otherwise. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    09:46, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Bot action request
I would like to request a bot that change all template calls where a parameter assignment ends in a newline to pipe-terminated. The only exception should be when the newline is intentionally to be part of the parameter assignment, though I doubt such cases exist.

Rational: We all know that MediaWiki treats double \n\n as a , but discards singular \n. What is subtle is the point that when you make a template call, and end the assignment with a newline, newline characters *might* be included in the assignment.

Use the following as an example:

param3 actually contains a newline after "Bye", and also includes the comments on the following line. Nesting of templates may also add unnecessary newlines under certain circumstances. If additional newlines are introduced elsewhere (either by design or accident), the consecutive \n's will end up rendering a   In the past (on GuildWiki) such issues have been encountered and usually worked around by formatting the templates themselves to avoid the effects of any included newlines, but it makes the template code harder to read and debug. I was going to just phase in the pipe-terminated convention slowly, but since you do have an argument for consistency, I would like to request a bot to systematically hunt down every template on GuildWiki for which consistency matters and make sure parameter assignments are not new-line terminated. -PanSola 09:11, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * While we have had problems involving finicky newlines and templates, this isn't one of them. In your example, param3 doesn't end up with a newline and the comment.  The comment is stripped out early in the MW's parsing and discarded.  Also, whitespace surrounding parameter names, pipes,  equals signs, and values gets stripped out.  If you make template foo containing the following:

param1: param2: param3: param4:
 * The above call will render as the following:

param1: Name param2:  param3: Bye param4: Weather
 * It will all be on a single line (besides maybe what the second template returns). --Fyren 19:05, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Parser Function
Can you tell me if the parser function is enabled on this wiki version. It does not seem to be working as evidenced here:. If it is available and just not enabled how would one go about making a request to get it enabled? Thanks. Glamtre 12:37, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll update our PF later tonight. Our version is from before the time function was added.  --Fyren 19:06, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks, I'll watch here for you to let me know when to test. Will this update all PF's that have been added since the last time we updated? I noticed some newer String and Dynamic functions along with Variable Extensions listed on WikiMeida. As you can see I have turned into a Wiki junkie in short order and I'm already running into technical limitations of what I am trying to do in my User ns.  I want to see what is possible before I unleash some of my ideas on the greater GW Wiki community.  Thanks again! Glamtre 20:00, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, I will not be installing those. --Fyren 20:03, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Updated PF. --Fyren 03:23, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Sorry bro
Four more edits to your user page, 2 of which were by me, my humble apologies! No seriously you might want to look into User:67.159.5.5 / User:Solus, for now 67.159.5.5 is blocked for 3 days. --Xasxas256 05:42, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Um... I was scrolling through your talked page and have come across this. What does that anon user have to do with me? Solus  01:35, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Click me. --Dirigible 01:44, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

What the hell? Why would I vandle your user page? Why would I link it to myself to get banned?! Solus  01:46, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Your page makes my browser cry
This page is 215 KB long. Soon I will not even be able to load it. Unless that's the whole point. Poor Poor Firefox... --   18:28, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Same. [[Image:FordSig.gif|22px]] @mericanvlad 12:50, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

HTML?
Is it possible to insert bits of HTML coding into the wiki formatting? @mericanvlad 12:50, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Partially. --Dirigible 12:53, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Vandalism to Sweet tooth page?
Someone deleted everything there. Just thought you might wanna know. Readem (talk *contribs ) 16:25, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

More on Obsid Drake page? (Sword,Shield, ect? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 23:53, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * How is that vandalism? --Fyren 23:54, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * My bad I guess. Just saw an anon (Probably someone who didn't sign in) delete the page. I now see that they just updated the list of Items. Sorry for wasting your time on both accounts :(. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 00:18, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Rank Page
Just want to know why you deleted the Rank 15 information I added last night? Elpedro
 * See the edit summary. --Fyren 06:26, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Erm yeah, Gaile was at the beta testing last night were you? It was officially confirmed, thats why we were allowed to see it, hence the screenshot I took and posted as evidence!
 * Hence you should have said that. The evidence is not your screenshot or that you saw it on alpha but that Gaile said it would be that way.  --Fyren 21:36, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

It is beta testing, that is why the public are testing it. Alpha is contained within Anet and all information is classified. Would they honestly show us something like rank15 if we all were told to keep quiet...I think not!
 * You miss the point. Nothing they show you is guaranteed to make it into the game the way you see it.  If ANet staff tells you so, then it's worth posting.  --Fyren 04:31, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Archive
You do now have 179 articles (180 is you count this) but shouldn;t it be time to archive? It's taking me ages to get to the end of the page. &mdash;<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA   15:11, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Heck, even your Table of Contents alone is large enough for an archive. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   16:55, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * do you guys still have faith? I lost mine a long time ago. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:21, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well fyren's old archive was at 21, so his new one is prolly gonna be at 210, and after that.. 2100 Not a fifty five 17:59, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ever notice how he never says anything anymore when we start talking about archives? --Armond Warblade (talk) 18:09, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You know, the more we talk about it, the longer the page gets... - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 23:23, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I can hear him laughing... --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   23:25, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I like pie Not a fifty five 01:46, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Overriding default Javascript functions
Is there a way to override functions defined in /Skins/common? I tried [User:PanSola/monobook.js|this]] but it didn't seem to work. (in this particular example, I want to by-pass the tag/style-stripping behavior that the default javascript performs, since it's unnecessarily messing up formatting). -PanSola 00:19, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I would have expected that to work. I'll look into it later tonight.  --Fyren 02:05, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Complement Multiplication?
Hello Fyren, I've seen you post in a few conversations about damage calculations etc so I'm hoping you or someone who reads your page can answer a question that I can't seem to find the answer to on the wiki. I'm just wondering if anyone has determined the exact calculation for chance to miss when a foe is hexed with multiple hexes such as Reckless Haste, Spirit of Failure etc. Does it matter what order the hexes are applied? Do the percentages add up through simple addition or through complement multiplication like HSR? And can you also remind me on how complement multiplication works? I feel like I understood this at some point but can't recall. Thanks! -- BrianG 12:51, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Multiply them iirc. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:37, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Subtract each chance to miss from one and multiply them together for the chance to hit. --Fyren 23:20, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

clickety
click –Ichigo724 22:06, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The user's edits are too long ago to check. --Fyren 02:20, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

200
Are you trying to get to 200 sections? --8765 21:57, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Fyren
Fyren is uber l33t. Will you give me a cookie? &mdash; Skuld 04:06, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Skud skud skud. --Fyren 04:07, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Skud? --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   04:34, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Hey, I heard you were handing out cookies!
May I have some? -mouth waters- &mdash;Blastedt 17:51, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * mouth opens wide =O 62.100.33.180 05:43, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

Monster Skill revert
I believe he was referring to the environmental effects found in The Dragon's Lair, on the stage with Facet of Elements. They don't actually belong in the article per se, but it is true that they don't actually have a Wikipage all their own. (T/C) 01:08, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't particularly think anything you can't see being cast by someone should be called a "skill" as opposed to an effect or environmental effect. I've tried to bring this up in the past in various places (like Category talk:Non-player skills) and no one's cared much.  --Fyren 01:26, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hehe, that's because there is a line between being totally correct in Wiki-mentality categorization, and being specific to the point of obfuscation. For the same reasons it would be silly to make a Category:Endangered Species for obscure things like Blue Skale, it also does not make much sense to have every conceivable category under the sun: Environmental Effects, Non-player skills, Monsters skills, Unknown Caster Skills, Non-Environmental Effects, Effects...etc etc. Too much classification confuses the average user and works against the original goal of making the Wiki easier to use. As such, you have to draw the line somewhere...perhaps it is to lump "anything you can't see being cast by someone" as a "skill", perhaps not. I'm all for classification as a means to facilitate ease of finding information. But different people interpret "ease of finding information" differently. And that's where all our Formatting nightmares come from. :(
 * As to those particular effects in discussion, I'd lump them under Environmental Effects, just as the other Aspects are (Domain of Slow for example). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:46, 28 April 2007 (CDT)

Healing Whisper
You RV'd my RV here, to the revision stating that the trainer in Ran Musu and Kaineng both have this skill. I thought that we only listed the earliest skill trainers here at the wiki; the first place you can learn a skill. Some clarification? (BTW, your talk page is massive). - Krowman (talk • contribs)  13:56, 28 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Even if you don't buy it at ran musu, it is available at kaineng. &mdash; Skuld 14:01, 28 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Foreign players are not going to backtrack into newbieland in order to buy a skill when they can get it in Kaineng. It doesn't make sense to list Shing Jea or non-Kamadan Istan locations alone.  --Fyren 14:02, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Kk, thank you. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 17:21, 28 April 2007 (CDT)

Dragon Arena
The section is tips for winning, and by far, that is the worst tip. Playing arena for so long, I've seen too many teammates ruin the game by clicking around for "speed." Too many novices end up leaving openings or not guarding teammates because they're so preoccupied with clicking. Hence, I do not think it should be there as it hampers the purpose - winning. I left it on and made a note due to your complaint. xskyzhighx

ARGH
'''WARNING: This page is 226 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.''' --> NOT fun when capped. - B e X or   01:51, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

193th article!
read header. &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA   12:01, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's the 193rd. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   17:00, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * 193nd. --Fyren 17:04, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Now it's the 194th. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   17:07, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

193rd
Yep. It sure is. --   17:07, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

now it is the 194th
lol :P &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA   17:08, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That's 195th. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   17:41, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * ...and we wonder how Fyren got such a long page... --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   17:42, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Now that you spammed here you will scroll up and be lost...FOREVER--Blade [[Image:smallscout.png]] (talk|contribs) 18:13, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's like a maze around here.. &mdash;[[User:Sigm@|<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA

]] 05:35, 2 May 2007 (CDT)

Elite skills.
Will you take a look at the elite skills table, some guy changed my revert and the new style hes putting in is icky in firefox to me and its unalligned please Revert back to normal so i dont have to break GW:1RV--Stevo101 19:27, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Builds
I have like one question. Are we going to have builds again? User:Breaker
 * Builds wipe. --Fyren 15:27, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

Archiving
I have archived your talk page, as it was beginning to bother me. You are, of course, free to revert... but I think we'd all be happier if you didn't. &mdash;Tanaric 10:14, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Awwww....I like the huge size of it :P Lord of all tyria 10:21, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * he still has 31 treads! &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 13:23, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Revert one of Tanaric's edits? The Chuck Norris of GuildWiki? --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Who's Chuck Norris? &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 10:39, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You don't know?! Burn the heretic! --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 11:56, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Elemental sword
I wondering about the Shambling Mesa page, an anon added elemental sword i saw the Style guide and reverted it but it got changed back, what one should it be since you know these things :)--Blade (talk|contribs) 14:25, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I know the S&F does say no weapons, but I'm going to stay out of it. Ask on the elemental sword or S&F talk if people want to make exceptions for rare drops.  --Fyren 15:27, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The only exception afaik, is for items that are only dropped by specific creatures. I think there is some shield from the Ring of Fire islands that is only dropped by one type of creature and that is listed on the creature page. I'm pretty sure its in the style and formatting guide as a note too. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 11:43, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That would be a Magmas Shield, which is only dropped by Titans. I agree with listing rare items as such, but some rare items are rare for everything, and some are slightly more common, but only from a few creatures. Only in the latter case should it be reported.  Anybody know which it is for an Elemental Sword? --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    16:57, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Alpha leak policy
Do we currently have an alpha leak policy? I can't seem to find one, and there's a possible alpha leak in talk:Guild Wars Eye of the North. -- Gordon Ecker 18:40, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We don't remove it unless ANet asks, then we go from there. --Fyren 19:41, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I thought so. -- Gordon Ecker 20:44, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

re: revert on celestial tournement
I checked if the guild name was listed with an apostrophe here before I made that change. Is that not correct? If it's not, should some sort of comment be added so others dont think the name should be changed?&mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  03:13, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * ANet lists names inconsistently on their site. "Winners Remorse" yet "Bambis Don't Say" on the same page. On a different tournament page, "There is a Cow Level" yet on the one you linked, "Time Is Running" and "Rise In Superior Competition."  They even list "Chaossanctuary" on one page when the guild name is "Chaossanctuary優."  We should use the name as it appears in game or on the ladder.  --Fyren 03:23, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok, thanks. &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 20:39, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

You know what I love about you, Fyren? Whenever I'm not sure about something, I can leave it in the summery of my edit and you'll fix it in your patrol of recent changes. =D &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  22:43, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

DISTURB DISTURB DISTURB -Auron  09:26, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

Editing bots project
I thought you might be interested in the editing bots project, which is intended to centralize requests for bot edits. -- Gordon Ecker 19:31, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Opinion sought; Armour/armor pages
New pages (eg, PvP reward) are of course all linking to lower case articles. Many articles (such as Warrior Sunspear Armor) have not yet been moved. Which is the most sensible course of action:
 * Moving the article and updating links
 * Marking the article as "{ {move|...} }", then updating links
 * Editting key pages that link to article, then moving article
 * Wait for a bot to do it

I've been doing the first option, and was critized for not fixing the pages that link to it first. (Which I found odd, as you would actually be breaking them until you moved the article they reference).

Doesn't bother me either way, but I thought it best not to tread on any more toes. --BlueNovember 18:52, 27 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Move and then (if you want to do the extra work) fix the old links and tag the redirect for deletion. The other way around makes no sense, as you said, since it breaks links.  The move template is just to try to get peoples' attention for discussion.  As for bots... dunno.  I'm not sure who else would care to run one and the software I used for mine broke with MediaWiki 1.9 apparently.  --Fyren 20:18, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Just want to point out that I didn't mean "change all the link before moving the article". It was about changing the link then move to the next article because at that moment many people were moving the armor page and marking the redirect for deletion.  I was just warning everybody so we don't end up with page linking to deleted page.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  20:52, 27 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Tyvm both. Sorry  ├ A ratak ┤  for the confusion. =) --Blue

Attunement spells
I believe the correct line of energy gained is 2-4-5-8 (for 5-10-15-25 base energy cost @30%) and not 2-4-6-8 (30% of 15 is 4.5); but what made you think that tables were wrong and why didn’t you simply correct them instead of removing them? A note about the possible stack of two attunements is now completely missing… --Hatch 12:51, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Because they were in their own section instead of the notes and take up a whole lot more room than the one sentence. Also, why would someone believe they wouldn't work at the same time? --Fyren 14:13, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I see. Notes like this must be posted, because they point out synergy with other skills. You cannot assume any visitor to have any level of experience (there are beginner’s guides here). Finding synergistic effects is a basic task of the game itself and any results must be posted with the according skills, otherwise the articles will remains stubs. --Hatch 08:17, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * He wasn't talking about expecting a level of experience, but seeing as nothing in the game tells people that two attunements don't work, why should we try to convince them they do? Are people going to assume that two attunements don't work by default? -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 08:21, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There's a relation pointed out by the related skills section. --Fyren 09:35, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for explaining. --Hatch 08:38, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Battle Rage
Crap...that will teach me to look a bit closer at things. -_- Sorry for the screw-up

Guest List
You and anyone reading this might want to take a look at This Page. If you ever need a guest for anything just message someone from that list, or if you find yourself not getting your daily helping of PvP add your name to the list. Hopefully it will keep gaining popularity until everytime someone needs a guest, they turn to it first (after their friends list). Next time you're in a group and need 1 more but cant seem to find one, think about it =) VegaObscura 01:55, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Build archives
We're keeping these? What's up with them? &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  23:04, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

Elite Skill
Just trying to fix this. --Emelend 22:40, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Change the links. --Fyren 23:00, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * More than half are on Userpages, isn't that frowned upon? --Emelend 23:07, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Any reasonable editor won't mind. &mdash;Tanaric 23:18, 6 June 2007 (CDT)