User:Mendel/Talk Archive 6

I reserve the right to edit section titles to coincide with the section content. =Comments=

Promotion
I'll be honest with you: I still have my apprehensions. But I want to see just how right (or wrong) I am. So congratulations.

Don't forget to update Administrator information, also.

(T/C) 23:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you! It means less of a nuisance in day-to-day operations for me, I'll try to not disappoint you.  I feel even more honored because of . My plans for the first hundred days of my reign adminship are to not change my behaviour much, but do my deletions and simple edits by myself now. --◄mendel► 00:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

GASP!
'Grats! Entrea   [Talk]  23:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Congratulations mendel. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 00:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! No more "Ishy, please delete this/add this to common.css/etc." annoyances on my talkpage! ;)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Finally, we may rejoice, Ishy :D Congarats ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:03, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, and since I never actually said it... Congratulations, mendel. ^_^ &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:39, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "Yay!" was good enough for me. ;) --◄mendel► 17:41, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The ghost of Linebeck doth congratulate thee. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 20:16, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * A bit late, but CONGRATULATIONS! Hope you enjoy your new position! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, now you can edit/delete This stuff yourself! Gratz! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about being late, but congratulations on the promotion. Glad to see you got it. Here's to hoping you wear your crown well, lest you be beaten with it. &mdash; Powersurge360  08:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ridiculously powerful fairs ftl [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I miss your meaning. &mdash; Powersurge360  08:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Play Brawl more. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * GASP! You're back!?! Neat! That makes me insanely curious how the affair that made you leave progressed. Thank you for your gratulations! Well, now you know whom to ask should you wish to have your userpage restored. Should I look in the fridge for some leftover champagne? --◄mendel► 08:35, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not actually back, although I may make a few more contributions tonight before I go to bed. As far as between me and Heather, we're still on shaky ground, but at least we're staying in contact. Today would've been the 3 year 8 month mark. &mdash; Powersurge360  08:42, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

My density far exceeds yours
You're doing a great job already. One of the hidden criteria I have for sysops is to amuse me by generating memorable quotes. <3 (T/C) 05:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Now that's a good reason to idle on irc. --◄mendel► 05:35, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What this means, in effect, is that any given volume scooped out of mendel would weigh more than the same volume from Nalee. This could also affect gravitational fields. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This deserves a userbox. And you've finally convinced me to attempt to get IRC. Gold star? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:40, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The truth
Let me tell you the plain truth, Mendel.

I don't trust you to be a sysop. I promoted you because I was going out on a limb. I wanted to see just how good or bad you could be. Basically, to use Auron's words, I promoted you to see if you would fuck up. Since that would prove him/me right once and for all.

(paraphrasing from RfA page and some of Auron's thoughts)
 * 1) ...despite the fact that you misinterpret almost every major policy.
 * 2) ...despite the fact that you make mountains out of molehills and blow things out of proportion.
 * 3) ...despite the fact that you are a "troublemaker".

Personally. I agree with the negative points. But I do not agree with them strongly enough that I would waste your talents. I believe there is enough good in promoting you...I believe it is worth the risk. I bet that I will be proven wrong and my doubts will be baseless.

In short, I believe in you, and I have full faith and confidence that you won't turn out to be the devil others have predicted.

If this alienates you so much that you no longer want the position, I can understand; I would be pretty disheartened and upset also if I saw I was being "manipulated" in such a way. So I apologize if that is how you feel. But I feel I must come clean and explain things, if not for your sake, than so others know what the hell is going on too. (T/C) 19:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * None of the arguments are new. As you have surely seen from the hidden text in my original reply above, the parallels to Felix's promotion were not lost on me. If that had alienated me, I'd have stated it then.
 * As to the points themselves, I'm counting on the GuildWiki community and the strong admin team to show me when I fail, as you all have done in the past (thank you!). I hope that me being an admin now doesn't change any of that.
 * Editing on this wiki has been a strong learning experience, I hope it can continue this way, and the only thing I regret in my brief stay here is that I somehow upset Wolfie into leaving the Wiki &mdash; and that for some reason I had caused you to take a dislike to me. I am happy that this seems to be changing (?).
 * Already I am thinking about how my status as an admin affects how my actions are being interpreted. I am just as curious as you where it'll end. Any advice? --◄mendel► 19:29, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Advice; don't ban for fun. No really, I doubt you'd break a lot around here just because you can ban/prot/del now. Quote: "In short, I believe in you,[..]". --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your understanding.
 * As to advice...when in doubt, ask the community/let them know your plans in advance (whichever is more relevant). No one likes having key changes happen without them noticing, and you would be surprised how differently some people can interpret your actions when you take them suddenly. In other words, it's better to clear up misunderstandings and opposition beforehand than to just "deal with it" later. (example: removing sysop flags from inactive admins. we would have missed a constructive discussion if I had just "done it".) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Advice
I made a page just for admin advice and copied the above advice there. There's more on that page, too. --◄mendel► 01:14, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Champagne
I forgot to ask, what is this "free images feature"? (T/C) 19:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Images in teh public domain? (or other copy-left licenses). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's a new Wikia feature released around... March/April? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:03, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) I don't know much more than what it says on Special:ImportFreeImages. I found another image on Wikimedia commons that I originally wanted to use, and it was imported that way, so I decided to use that to import it here. --◄mendel► 20:04, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. I remember tooling around with that before but never thought to actually use it. Cool. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More info: Help:Import free images -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Drop rate
I seem to remember you were working on a way to automate drop rate tables, such as miniatures from birthdays, using a Count* template or such. Is that on hold for infinity? Been looking at the drop rate for Trick-or-Treat bag and thinking of this... :) (T/C) 16:28, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we can do it with the currently available tools (or it would be exceptionally convoluted), but I was looking around this afternoon and found an extension that would let us do it: Mediawikiwiki:Extension:Winter. It looks like it was modeled on Perl, which means it should be real easy for anyone (especially me :D) to pick up and use.  I'm already thinking of other things we could use it for, in fact.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I can do tables like that, that's what I did the Fibonacci test for initially. The template would be at the end of the table and extend the table on every save. It's a fair piece of work, and not lightly undertaken, and it'll be at least Friday(ish) until I'll have time. What can be done quickly is to make a template that displays the totals and calculates the percentages. --◄mendel► 23:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That looks awesome. Other than drop rate, what else could we use it for? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:05, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The storeh, of course. --◄mendel► 00:10, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Symbolic?
I feel happy today. --◄mendel► 13:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fact 1: Earlier today I've had a 3-hour long chat and maybe made a new friend.
 * Fact 2: It's been overcast and showery all week, but when I came into my kitchen after the chat, the sun came out.
 * Clearly this is a sign that Breakfast McRitual is more powerful than we ever imagined. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:56, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

∞
It's "the infinity symbol", not "a sideways 8". :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael  16:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for expanding my vocabulary.  = &infin; = ∞ --◄mendel► 16:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

hey you
Stop logging off irc 4 minutes before I get on and need to ask you a question D: --Shadowcrest  19:07, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

you presumably have shared a bed
Whoa! Damage +15% vs. hexed foes! :p (T/C) 13:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I think that langugage needs to be more inclusive. And I doubt your reference means what I think it means. --◄mendel► 13:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, got it. --◄mendel► 13:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Immortalized
OK, maybe it was discussed on IRC before I joined or something, but what is so great about that quote? It was the !topic on IRC for awhile and now it is immortalized as a userbox. It's not that great or poetic or anything... (T/C) 13:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll tell you about yours when you tell me about mine. Or get on irc (why aren't you? it's lonely out there). --◄mendel► 13:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

This code
 Michael Mendelsohn · Miguel El Mendson ·

&shy; &shy; &shy; It covers up the links to my watchlist/contribs in the top right. It should probably be moved down some (to the same level as the page title would probably work).  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 19:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It needs  in your .css file to look right. Basically, until that is implemented site-wide, this is experimental (using my userpage as a sandbox here). I suggest transferring to another page when you need your watchlist or contribs. --◄mendel► 22:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Or use shortcut keys: alt+shift+l for watchlist, or alt+shit+y for contributions. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It's only one page. The language feature, when it goes live, will look like the demo on GuildWiki talk:Languages. --◄mendel► 22:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

About guildwiki.fr
You're mistaking gwiki.fr with the original guildwiki.fr : me and the two others sysops of fr.guildwars.wikia are comming from the first french wiki about guildwars that was started before Factions came out. See a bit of the story here. Then clic "current version" to read : "I've found another french guildwiki at http://gwiki.fr/". Some users of the first french guildwiki prefered to go on gwiki.fr instead of comming with me on the new wikia i started a few month before the hosting service get rid of the bugged wiki.

That was the first domain name they had because for many month, guildwiki.fr was still host and owned by someone else. I have a lot of grudge (?) for the admin of gwiki.fr because they never came to us when we where still struggling with the bugs caused by the move of hosting of guildwiki.fr. They said they didn't know there was still users on that one but they could have looked in the recent changes...

Feel free to ask for details or clarifications. — TulipVorlax 03:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, ok, I thought it might have been something like that. Thank you. --◄mendel► 03:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Your userpage obscures Log out link
Something you did to your userpage obscures the log out button. It's not a major problem since I rarely (never) go here to log out, just thought I'd point it out. See this for pic GW-Viruzzz 12:43, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Aware Was Mendel. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

User_talk:Fire Tock
(undoing Isk8's change to the triple big) ... Yeah, the page wouldn't let me save the .px change; some kind of spam blocker kept preventing me from doing it. Did your placement of the nowiki tags allow the change the article? I thought I had gotten all of them, but seems you found alot more. I guess having both bots and manual searching works in situations like those :P --   Isk8   (T/C) 21:41, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Boobies card
For you  21:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Page views
At the bottom of every page, for GuildWiki, there's a bar with some info links, and a statement "This page was last modified on..."

On GWW, there is "This page has been accessed X times", or basically, page views.

How would I go about finding such data for any given page? (pretty sure I can add it to that bar at the bottom from the Allmessages, somehow) (T/C) 12:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You can't, because the wiki doesn't know. Only the varnishing gurus do. --◄mendel► 12:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * D:


 * I've looked at the "Most viewed" and such caches and they do seem to be way off compared to teh other stat calculators (Alexa n stuff). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Webcomics
I saw your mention of Gunnerkrigg on Warwick's talk page, and couldn't help checking it out. That is pretty good! If it wasn't so late, I'd read more of it. As it is, I finished two chapters. On the subject of webcomics, I've just gotta share another one I enjoy... Lackadaisy. If the story sucked, it would be made up for with the art and style. Happily, the story is quite awesome as well, in my opinion. :D -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  11:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it looks attractive. I've added it to my "check out" list - which is quite long, unfortunately. Thanks for the tip! --◄mendel► 23:16, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The artist's a pretty fun person as well. I watch her artwork on deviantART. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  01:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

disabling navbar
Broke things for me. All of the "stuff" which belongs up there above the content - the GuildWiki logo, my "tabs", the links in the right hand corner - everything moved down. It is moved about the same length of px as the navbar was. I am thinking that there is some code somewhere which forces the content down by X pixels, and it was calculated assuming the navbar was there, so now it's broken somehow...or I dunno. In any case I reverted because it makes some tabs unusable for me (they clash with the sitenotice, etc.) (T/C) 08:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry. Px layout fails, but it needs to be fixed. --◄mendel► 13:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And 24 hour cache fails as well (varnishing Gurus etc.). The new change has been tested on my personal monobook.css this time, and seems to work ok. Since it affects only monobook users, I'm a bit more bold than usual. Please complain if the "extra" tabs or anything else doesn't work the way it should, and I'm going to fix it ASAP. --◄mendel► 13:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As a stopgap fix until the cache updates, add the following lines to Special:MyPage/monobook.css or switch to Monaco.


 * 1) column-one { padding-top: 145px; }
 * 2) p-logo { top: 0em; }
 * 3) p-personal { top: 0.6em; }
 * 4) p-cactions { top: 1.9em; }
 * --◄mendel► 13:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Why did the bar go, anyways? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See User:M.mendel/Talk_Archive_4. I just thought it'd be simple to remove... --◄mendel► 16:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Bah. Gonna miss it (actually, already do since the top bars are now borked, but that should be temp.) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it is still there, so you can redisplay it. Just add this to your monobook.css :

div#navbar { display:block; }
 * 1) column-one { padding-top: 160px; }
 * 2) p-logo { top: 2.5em; }
 * 3) p-personal { top: 2.6em; }
 * 4) p-cactions { top: 3.9em; }
 * and it should override the changes and give you the navbar back. --◄mendel► 16:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC) & 16:34, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The bars are still ever so slightly off for me, they are just barely hovering above the rest of the page. (But at least they're usable now.) I'll probably end up tweaking the numbers for myself a bit to get it just right. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I've got it fixed - it looks right for me, at least. Tabs are sitting on the content box, non-active tabs have a bottom border, active tabs don't.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * IN that case, it is better than it was before! ;-) Have teh wikia techs managed to un-cache the monobook.css? --◄mendel► 19:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It updated immediately for me, so I assume they have. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I did notice that it doesn't work in IE - the tabs are still floating above the content box. I have a partial solution on my shoepuppet's css, but for some reason the selected tabs are ignoring their padding.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:10, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday Userbox!
To commemorate the effort you've put into preparing GuildWiki for our Wintersday celebration, I have created a special userbox at Template:User Wintersday:

Wear it with pride! <3 09:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Now blue and icy! --◄mendel► 05:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well that's kind of depressing... [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever the fuck you did to that thing made your page EXPLOOOOOOODE --Gimmethegepgun 05:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't do that in preview :-( --◄mendel► 05:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ... because preview is in a section, and gimme inserted a div tag higher up the page while I wasn't looking in a misguided attempt to fix the indented userbox! Grr! --◄mendel► 05:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * --◄mendel► 05:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not exactly certain why that div tag fixed it up there or whatever, but YOU of all people should've known that section editing won't accurately display the formatting of the page unless that's where the problem is --Gimmethegepgun 05:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Since that section is all that I edited, I wasn't expecting anybody else to create a problem elsewhere on the page without telling me :-P --◄mendel► 06:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I created that other "problem" because I was trying to fix a problem that seemed to do with the stuff at the top but was actually created because of the substitution stuff you did --Gimmethegepgun 06:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Tip: find the exact change that caused the problem before doing the fix. Understanding the problem you're trying to fix = win. ;-) Or, alternately, running the page through the validator, which incidentally points out that there is a problem with the irc user box... hmmm. --◄mendel► 06:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Which would probably explain why my change actually fixed the problem :P --Gimmethegepgun 06:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, not really. But it is fixed now. --◄mendel► 06:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That would appear to be one of the most valuable links I've seen in years. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason I figured something was wrong up there was because, you know, a closing div tag without a starter one usually causes issues. However, removing it didn't DO anything, but adding a starter did for some fucked up reason --Gimmethegepgun 06:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for fixing that poll on my user page, wasn't sure how to do it myself. If you see anything else that needs fixing go ahead and have at it or let me know. Tenetke Mekko 00:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd also like to thank you for showing me how to make a table,it made my page look much more organized.Durga Dido 17:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * He does tons of good stuff, on that note I uploaded the .png of that peppermint shield. On my User page you will find a blue variation that, for some reason to me, is much prettier. That image of the peppermint shield is really bad looking though. I know you only need a small version but please let me know if you want me to fix it up. I don't mind in the slightest bit. Also I want to put one of your boxes on my page so let me know when it is ready. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 06:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What is your IGN so I can add you to friends. I wish there was a wiki guild so bad. So if any of you ever start one let me know[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 05:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I predict the rise of [WIKI] again. Also, no one knows Mendel's IGN except for his most trusted comrades. But will he reveal it now?! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, didn't realize it was a secret or anything. Just thought it would be cool to talk in game sometime. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 06:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've always been a casual GW player, and my playing time has gotten even less now that I've started "playing" GuildWiki, so even knowing my IGN you wouldn't be able to talk to me much, account sharing aside - besides, I don't like to chat and fight at the same time. :-P But if you really want to waste a lot of your time on chat(I'm sure Entropy and others can confirm this), get on IRC. There are some guilds that have a high number of GuildWikians, but I've been in a German guild for a year now and am not likely to leave soon. --◄mendel► 11:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Was waiting on my new installation of Linux to add in my irc, but seeing as I can't wait that long I will log in using pidgin in a bit. Been experiencing emesis for a bit now. No fever, no cramps, not post nasal. What times are you usually on?[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 11:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a bit hard to tell, but often from 21:00 GMT to whenever. (Right now I should be offline, actually, and will be in a minute...) --◄mendel► 11:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Please template
22:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dangit, mendel, why do you make your templates so stupidly complicated? I can type and sill get this icy version!


 * That makes it very difficult to figure out what the heck is going on. Not to mention totally screwing over the legitimacy of the documentation, you horrible, horrible liar =P[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  00:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The undocumented behaviour can break with the next revision, so if you use that, it's your risk. And the docs do not state what happens when you enter anything else. Anyway, gonna extand it now. --◄mendel► 01:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Pain
I hope it is o.k. that I posted this here. You can delete it if not. I wanted to explain a bit about pain and how it is relayed through the body. The train station is the best analogy for pain there is I think. You start off by pricking your finger, this stimulates the Nociceptor in that finger. That nociceptor sort of turns on a green light allowing people to board a train. The train tracks are nerve fibers, they will carry that train full of people. First the train connects to a larger rail system of the Periphery Nerves. Then it moves on toward the spinal cord. At the spinal cord another signal is set off, to follow the analogy the people get off one train and move to the next. After the people get on the new train they are headed directly to the Dorsal Horn. The people leave the train once they arrive at the Dorsal Horn. Now they are neurotransmitters. They are mad as hell for having to take so many different trains, and while the speed was good they are still pissed. So these neurotransmitters are taking their complaint directly to the boss. Screw the employees they want the brain. They arrive at the Thalamus, the big gating mechanism of the brain. Well some are so mad they want to go directly to the manager. Those guys are going to the somatosensory cortex. That is the part of your brain that deals with physical pain. Now some of the passengers are still pissed but they say screw it they just want to see their loved ones. Those passengers are headed for the Limbic System. That system deals with emotional feelings. The rest of those passengers are so pissed they figure "what the hell we aren't going to get anything done here, we will write a letter". They are headed directly for the frontal lobe, the area that controls different aspects of thought. Now those nasty passengers that went to the Somatosensory Cortex, are going to raise hell. Normally this area has a good deal of signals but they are orderly. These people are crazy, so the brain responds. You quickly go "@#$%^^&$@#er why did I stab my hand with that needle" and pull away from it. Now all the groups of angry people can finally shut up. Not sure if the analogy worked or not, first time I have ever used it to be honest. Tenetke Mekko 07:20, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The quality of the analogy depends on how well you can use it to explain stuff and promote new insights, so it depends, I guess. It works badly on me because in my head I am translating everything back to nerves and synapses anyway. And it leaves me with an number of questions (take your pick ;-):
 * I talked to my private biologist who came home early today, so here's more detail.
 * I thought the "rail system" was used by other stimuli as well, so how do they differ?
 * That's where the analogy breaks down, because "what" a given nerve impulse is depends on which sensor is connected to what part of the brain (i.e. I assume that in embryonic brain formation, nerve endings connected to similar receptors get grouped).
 * How can a free nerve ending "feel" anything without a receptor?
 * Evolutionary, nerve cells should be an advantage only if they're useful by themselves, and the most useful information for any organism would be to know of injury, so it makes sense that "raw" nerve cells sense injury and that the receptors are later evolutionary stages that tack onto that system.
 * I read that free nerve endings can detect chemical, mechanical and thermal stimuli aside from pain, how are they distinguished?
 * Possibly by level, or by where they originate (how close they are to the skin surface).
 * The distinction probably depends on which neurotransmitters are getting released (and where?), but can a synapse release different neurotransmitters, or always a fixed set of types, depending on function?
 * It seems that the set of NTs a given synapse can release is limited, but it's definitely more than one NT for any synapse.
 * How much pain we feel depends on how receptive the receptors for these neurotransmitters are (that's how pain killers work?). Is that the part that is influenced by emotional stress etc.?
 * There are synapses that inhibit signals, and neurotransmitters that do (endorphins), and if there are less of those because of stress or another disturbance in the emotional balance, it is also easier for pain to "get through".
 * I assume that the somasensory cortex is somehow more receptive when we're emotinally stressed, with maybe a higher base level of neurotransmitters floating around so that smaller pain signals coming on top of that cause a stronger reaction than they otherwise would (explain that with trains ;-)?
 * When you're stressed, there's more adrenaline being released, so it could be a possibility, but lower inhibition explains it better.
 * And are the neurotransmitters considered part of the nervous system?
 * Yes.
 * --◄mendel► 10:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * --◄mendel► 11:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, sorry for using the analogy then. Just disregard that. You are intelligent, and you have your trusty look up devices. From now on no analogies, and well that is a lie because I use analogies way too much. So to start off.
 * In the case of free nerve endings they have fiber types. I went back and listed all the type of fiber and modality listings, then realized it was really long and is not important. So basically you have a couple of different ways to detect things. Free Nerve Endings are a type of cutaneous receptor. They are different from the others in that they are not encapsulated.
 * Encapsulated receptors
 * Ruffini's- end organ, which basically deals with stretch.
 * Meissner's- touch
 * Merkel's- not as strong as pacinianpressure, and continued touch
 * Pacinian-deep pressure, some vibration
 * Nociceptors are only activated if there is damage or the threat of damage.
 * Thermoreceptors surprise they deal with temperature

Then you have more specialized receptors.
 * Chemoreceptors deal with chemical interaction like smell

So the type of stimuli is what decides what type of receptor will react. In the case above with the pricking of your finger, it would be Nociceptors that react. The Thalamus is like the switching station of the brain. That is how each receptor ends up in a specific place.

Unfortunately it is really hard to know much about neurotransmitters. To be honest that is beyond the specifics I have studied and I would hate to go into that specialty. The research is interesting, but you start dealing with way to much uncertainty.

Pain is modulated in a number of ways. Along the spinal cord there are certain chemicals that will actually enhance pain signals. Take substance p. It exists for pretty much one function only, and that is to cause pain. It will actually enhance the pain of signals that pass through the dorsal horn ganglion. Emotion and pain are strongly linked. Sorry I can't explain that much better, than to say that people suffering from chronic pain have a tendency to suffer from depression. No idea why they are so closely linked to be honest, but they are. That isn't to say one can not exist without the other. That happens, but the two systems seem to be strongly linked.

I hope I explained things a bit better. To be honest though I don't know that much about most nerves. I want my specialty to be heavy metals, and diagnostics. I think neurosurgeons are all crazy. =PTenetke Mekko 14:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, the insight I got from that is that all free nerve endings are not created equal; it's pretty evident that there are different nerve end organs, but I didn't realize there were different types of nerve fibers.
 * It makes sense that if endorphins can inhibit nerve signals that other NTs could enhance them. Ok, thank you for the explanations, I understand pain a lot better now! --◄mendel► 15:10, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You have new ice
Would there be a way to set the icy background for the New Messages bar? It's hardcoded into the sitenotice... and doing that to the MediaWiki New Messages would make it apply to everyone by default, which I wouldn't want to do without asking first. I know that you can just change the background color easily (mine's pink now), but I see that "class = icebox" is what is needed, which doesn't seem to work... (T/C) 10:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, just do it where you pink it. You don't have to use the class, look the class up in MediaWiki:common.css (or wherever I put it) and use the style associated with .icebox {the part with the braces} where you use your pink now. The two pixel values are an offset to shift the ice texture a bit, because otherwise all upper left corners of all ice backgrounds are going to look alike. --◄mendel► 10:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of the New Messages bar, I think something in our recent Wintersday decoration fixes knocked it out, since it's not pink anymore... I tried adding div before it, and also making it important!, but that doesn't seem to work... Maybe it's just being slow as usual updating the .css . Sigh. (if I got it to ice, then I guess that would match, though.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes!
I'm not the only one! &rarr; "why do i spot these typos the moment I hit "save"?". I have that problem so often :( It's that much more annoying when there's several people talking. ECs ftl. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  15:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

IE sucks
Header. (T/C) 05:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Traitor [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Just means I have to check the wintersday deco for bugs on IE/monobook. --◄mendel► 05:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I found another wtf. You may remember this message:

Well, it came back for me. So did the one which appears when you are using the Undo button, which tells you to leave a summary etc. I am not sure whether these got assigned new div tags, or the Wintersday decorations broke them, or...etc.

I'll probably download Firefox and Web tools extention so that I don't have to bother you about these types of things later... and then I can fix IE bugs myself. >.> (T/C) 08:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The div for one of them is #talkPageText, and basically, it shouldn't be coming back because we're not tinkering with the display: setting, so unless it's been commented out inadvertantly? The GWmonobook.php has last been changed 3 months ago. You can figure out these divs by looking at the page HTML source; just the Javascript-generated google ads can't be found so easily, I believe. --◄mendel► 12:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday in GWW
I loaded up the Wintersday theme in GWW (looks awesome) and I noticed something strange: Even though the tabs there have never been broken, by putting the theme up they became broken. They even got that little extra bit of white space at the end of them. It's strange. Screenshot below. (T/C) 08:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)



See how the typical tabs have extra white to the right? The custom ones are fine, though.

I had to manually adjust the number of "em"s in my .css so that the tabs wouldn't float; it's a different value than on GuildWiki. Also, I realize now that they don't use "class = infobox" for things, so not as much stuff shows up "iced". Oh well. (T/C) 08:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The &lt;li> that sticks out right is the part that sticks down in FF, so it seems that short of redesigning the tabs, there is a fix for either FF or IE, but not both. --◄mendel► 15:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Since I'm the only person using the Wintersday theme on GWW it's alright. ;) I love that I can replace the favicon and also their logo thing...I may as well be at GuildWiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Capture png
For the wiki, if that. ;-) I think it doesn't even matter much for the icon-resized version. --◄mendel► 11:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, thought it was for you, so I figured I would upload one for you. Also can you tell me what you think about this image replacing the one on The Hunger's page?



ThanksTenetke Mekko 13:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What I think is that you can be bold about these things and just upload the image over the one it is supposed to be replacing if you feel it is better - if someone thinks strongly that it's not you'll just get reverted and that's that. (It worked for me on Image:GwenAdult.jpg ;-). I do like it - you used a fansite kit image for that, right? --◄mendel► 15:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, didn't really know there were fansite kit images of them. I haven't looked at much of the fansite stuff beyond the logos. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 15:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * While the no-background images are nice, they are huge: >400kB for the Hunger image. Also, I personally prefer images that show the creature in its natural habitat.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, feel free to revert them. I did upload a new version of the hunger above. Almost a 4th the size, down from >400 to 189, but still looks as good. Just used a different form of compression on it. I have only uploaded two, I will fix the compression on the Abyssal, but I won't upload anymore. I guess the reason I liked the transparent background is that it allows a better view of the creature. Also it seems to look better on various decorations, and it allows more utility. Thanks for the feedback, going to fix the second one now. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 17:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That's better, but still an order of magnitude larger than the previous jpg version. Of course, with the ever-increasing prevalence of broadband, that's not as much of an issue anymore.  And the other is just my personal preference, which I why I didn't revert immediately.  If you'd like, you can bring this up on the Community Portal to potentially get a wider discussion about it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The old picture has low contrast and such. It is hard to shoot good pictures of the beasts in the wild. However, there is no reason why the image can't be added to the article text anyway. --◄mendel► 22:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, wasn't my intention to cause any problems. Next time I will do some more checking before uploading new images. Thanks. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Resetting the indent. Anyway you were right about that svg. I forgot to bind it down, and when I did there was an improvement in size but the quality, well it was a vector graphic so I guess you can imagine. Sorry about that. Edit apparently I forgot to sign, so I am adding sig here[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 15:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As for other thing I Uploaded a new pic of how it appears on icecat. The everything should be visible and the css looks great on it I think. Let me know if you see anything you can change, also is it possible to shrink the sidebar a bit? [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 15:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

theft
Check it out. Think we could do something like that? We have plenty of articles which have had split/merge/move tags on them for ages...or I think we do, I'm just too lazy to use Whatlinkshere. ;) (T/C) 06:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * We could always edit the "merge" template to simply categorize pages it's transcluded on, right? That sounds like a simple way to go about it. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  09:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean, like Category:Articles to be merged? What a good idea...
 * Category:GuildWiki maintenance ftw, btw. Splits get listed in Category:Articles to be moved (and have been since June 2006). And we're better at housekeeping than GWW. ;-) --◄mendel► 11:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Obscure categories don't attract people who could be bothered to help; visible shiny new pages made with DPL do! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * GWW's DPL page has some date-fu which IMO is quite embarrassing. Just push the category tree more to GuildWikians (we should be having this convo on your talk...), it loads the server less and is much more useful than some obscure page :-P. You can find every GuildWiki article from Category:Categories, in this case open (click +) cat:GuildWiki and then GuildWiki Maintenance. You get a nice sorted overview of where people can help out. --◄mendel► 14:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries
No "All your wiki are belong to Wintersday"? :(  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 12:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I assumed that the knowledgeable reader can infer that. ;-) --◄mendel► 13:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * True enough :)  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 17:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanx
Hi there Mendel, just wanted to thank you. I know you'd expect this on my own Talk Page as a reply, but I mean in general not just for this morning. Of all the users on this wiki, I have always found you to be the nearest to a model user. Willing to help anyone, a lot, very knowledgable about coding and in general. You speak your mind, but in a tactful and pleasant manner, which I truely respect. So thanx for making this wiki a more pleasant place to be. -->Suicidal Tendencie 13:25, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A thoughtful compliment somewhat out of the blue? Why, thank you, you're welcome to post that anywhere! You've just made my day more pleasant for me. :-) --◄mendel► 16:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Glad I did :-) -->Suicidal Tendencie 17:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Mendel
This is a silly question. I'll ask it anyway :D Why don't you just make Mendel redirect to M.mendel?

I don't doubt if you ask the community as a whole nobody would have a problem with that. -->Suicidal Tendencie 12:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You would have to ask User:Mendel first, since (s)he may not want that. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a silly question at all. I can't recall why I set it up that way, I guess that is to allow User:mendel to see his or her userpage if (s)he does log on. I'm not using it, and there are no important links to it (except the one on your page, which you may want to adjust ;-). It's a different issue for the folks who had their accounts renamed with the wikia move, there are usually lots of links, and there isn't another user on GuildWiki who has actually been using that name. --◄mendel► 15:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't a disambig link be more appropriate? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A disambig link only makes sense if there are two pages on similar topics, but there is no actual user page for User:mendel, nor was there ever one, and we don't do disambigs for single pages. If User:mendel returns and makes a user page, I'd be much obliged if that page had a disambig at the top, similar to the one Dr ishmael used to have. --◄mendel► 18:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Needless to say I was ignorant here... I didn't realize Mendel was not M.mendel...
 * Thank you for, once again, being tactful Mendel, but having learned that you are seperate users, it feels all the more like a silly thing to have asked.
 * Speaking of which, a thought's occured (oh dear). Should I call you M.mendel in future? And I will adjust that on my page, thank you for the suggestion. -->Suicidal Tendencie 19:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been called "mendel" for all of my online life, and often offline as well; that's why I sign myself that, and I would ask you to continue to refer to me that way. Thank you for asking. --◄mendel► 19:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll call you ◄ for short. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  23:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That is too short, use at least ◄►, please. --◄mendel► 04:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for deleting that. I had forgotten about the delete tags then had one of those "DOH" moments where you slap yourself in the forehead. Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 08:14, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you want me to grab your character information out of the deleted things so that you can create a less personal userpage, or has whatever happened put you off GuildWiki altogether? --◄mendel► 08:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah great a Thanks title. Tyvm for the Sandbox/HoM stuff :D ♥"I love you"♥ -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]]  † The Falling One©  15:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

answer to comment from Warwick rfa
Below comment copied from Here (somewhere in that tower of text)
 * "We've been interacting on your talkpage even before I got promoted. Did the promotion make me more intimidating to you? Or was the sense of "he belongs to the in-group and I don't" present before that?
 * Oh, and if we gave sysop tools to everybody who applies and whom we trust, I'd be in favor of giving them to you. Would that make you feel as if you belonged more? --◄mendel► 23:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)"
 * I always thought you were very professional, You acted like an admin, and by that I don't mean you acted like you were an admin, but you acted like you knew what you were doing (and as far I can see, you do), you acted impartial most of the time and generally acted very responsibly. So no, your promotion didn't make you more intimidating, you already were with your wiki-knowledge and admin-like behavior.
 * And for sysop tools: I would never apply, I wouldn't turn down the tools if they were given, but like rollback rights, I would probably never use them, I have no interest in becoming an admin on here. I dislike responsibility I don't chose myself, and being an admin is a package of responsibility where I would only ever want to take on parts of them Viruzzz 16:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thank you for that feedback! I guess that's why PanSola was reluctant to promote me then, I'd have made a good example for a user who does what admins do but isn't actually one; it'd go a long way to show you can have power on the wiki and not be a sysop.
 * I think you are not alone. The "part of an admin" thought is new, it's actually a supporting argument for having a wide admin base; if we don't promote admins just because we need them to do a job, we can give people the tools and let them carve out their own "mini-admin" jobs that encompass only a small part of what a "power admin" would do. And it'd be valuable, because whatever you do, somebody else is free not to do! --◄mendel► 17:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that being able to only give out particular tools - ban, prot, or delete, but not all three - would definitely lead to more people having access to these things. (not necessarily on this wiki, but in general) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Minor semantic quibbles with the phrase "what admins do", as it can be misinterpreted to mean "things that fall under admin's responsibility to do". But otherwise it is a generally accurate explanation of why I was reluctant to appoint you in particular.  A generalization of that leads to the reason why I favor the "promote only as needed" system (many candidates considered for adminship tend to be active/powerful in their own ways).  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for confirming, Pan!
 * Entropy, have a look here and see the user rights for "Assistants" here. The way to go on GuildWiki would be to add rights to move unthrottled, delete and edit protected pages to our rollback group? or make a group of its own? I would feel more confortable with undelete and prot staying restricted to admins, it prevents del/undel and prot/unprot wars and means that deleted stuff stays invisible to most. (Though as a user, I'd have loved the ability to look at that.) --◄mendel► 05:54, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought the rollback people were already exempt from move throttle. Anyway I don't want to start this sort of thing right now, since I believe there are more pressing issues, but I'll look into it in the future. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right about the move throttle, I should've checked. --◄mendel► 06:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * And I'd want to keep the rollback group as close to "same power as regular users, just with more convenient tools" as possible. So I'd oppose adding delete or edit-protected tools to that group. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, how about some other group then? --◄mendel► 01:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

not a top wiki
See w:c:rappelz:User talk:Najevi. Either we aren't a top wiki, or Wikia's afraid to touch us. :-P --◄mendel► 19:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

In terms of traffic, we outperform that wiki by far; we get half a million pageviews daily, they get 15k. --◄mendel► 19:53, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe because we're already a popular wiki? :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I lol'd. If that ever happens here, what we will do is make "Guild Wars Wiki" redirect to the main page, not the other way round. (But I think the reason they do not do that is because GWW is already "Guild Wars Wiki" and it would cause confusion.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The point is that every page links to the main page, so it's one of the most linked pages on the wiki, and having that named with something you want google to recognize as search keywords helps; so having a redirect would probably be pointless. --◄mendel► 05:54, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

wintersday CSS/JS bug reports
One month belated, but why the heck was the wintersday CSS/JS bug reports on the staff noticeboard??? o_O""" -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 05:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The idea was that people would follow the "report a wiki bug" link - which nobody did. --◄mendel► 07:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point, and a pity that the good point ended up being a moot point >_<" -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Golden mendel
Am I seeing things, or is your signature in gold now? 14:54, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am still using a non-raw signature, if you look at the page source there should be nothing special about it, unless someone has changed .css or .js to make it golden; but I have done nothing. --◄mendel► 16:09, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You just encountered a rare Shiny Mendel. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 16:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Where's a Master Ball when you need one?! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have a couple, I was duping and accidentally hit an extra 0 in the console.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]îğá†ħŕášħ 03:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Its like a clicked link. Like if you have click a link it changes from Blue to Purple... while ◄mendel► changes to a golden color. Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 04:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've never seen this golden color, it just changes to purple for me. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Click the link, hold the button down. -- ◄mendel► 11:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

A huge thanks from the creator of another wiki
Hi, Mendel, I just wanted to get back to you. About three weeks ago I sent you an email asking for advice about wiki hosts. You could have just blown me off, but you got back to me with a detailed and incredibly helpful reply. Your perspective was invaluable I was in a huge rush at the time so I never got a chance to reply, but I wanted to send you some props in a public place for your help and for representing GuildWiki so well.

Another user... perhaps Shadowcrest? was also very helpful on #gwiki.

In terms of how things went... I actually ended up on, of all places, wetpaint. I don't know if you have heard of them, but they offer a completely WYSIWYG wiki experience. I would personally much rather be on mediawiki, but many of my users are very technically unsophisticated, and I had to choose a platform that would give the wiki the greatest chance of success. It was a hard choice, but I am sure it was the right one. You should drop by some time! You might find it interesting to see what a Wetpaint wiki looks like... they are very different, and I would definitely appreciate your feedback on what we've done, especially the community building parts. The address is tmswiki.wetpaint.com and my user page is here.

Thanks again.... Forestfortrees 00:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

What?
" Random fun and sausages don't live inside the other man ◄mendel►  17:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC) "? Entrea   [Talk]  00:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the challenge was to come up with something random... ;-) --◄mendel► 00:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Sigs
Could you please change so that it fits according to GuildWiki's guidelines? Thank you! --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 04:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Better ask Jio. I only know that [[Image:Balistic Sig.png|x19px]] looks terrible. What font was this made in? You can redo it at a smaller size and hope that the font has hinting to not look ugly at small sizes. -- ◄mendel► 04:48, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think that sig will work at 50x19 no matter what you do. Better just use  tags and the appropriate font in your signature itself. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If it works with a appropriate font, he could just screenshot that and upload it as an image for those that don't have the font, no? The problem is that the font has large ascenders and descenders that make the central portion of the letters very small when pressed into 19 pixels. I am certain that with the proper CSS wizardry (similar to what's used for Viper's sigstack) and transparency an image higher than 19px could be used without disrupting the page flow, but it would disrupt the wiki and thus is probably not a good idea. -- ◄mendel► 11:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahh, maybe someone could please, create me a signature? Like you guys (entropy, viper) all have sigs in pictures. --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 01:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Open Wordpad, choose font, type name, screenshot, use irfanview to crop screenshot, if it is too big, reduce font size, screenhot again, if font sucks, get on the web and find a better one. -- ◄mendel► 01:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:BalisticSig.png]], this look fine? Or should it be [[Image:BalisticSig.png|x19px]]? &mdash; Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 01:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a tad on the big side, isn't it? Viruzzz 02:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do not use the x19px, that makes it look fuzzy. You still have rows of white pixels at the top (or bottom) that you can cut. The image is far too wide, though, see GuildWiki talk:Sign your comments for an initiative to allow wide images. -- ◄mendel► 02:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Better? &mdash; Balistic Pve
 * GW:SIGN currently says you have to make do with 50 pixels width. Tip: If you leave more whitespace at the bottom, your sig will not "sag" as much in relation to the rest of the text, because it is centered and the text will then appear higher up. -- ◄mendel► 02:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

portlet links vandalism
-  discussion

Protips from GWW vandals :) (T/C) 06:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Get a browser, not the abomination that you're using: you can't display stuff outside the bounding box in a real browser, so it won't work for me. ;-) As an upside, the language links update would probably break this. -- ◄mendel► 11:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

What did you do to your userpage?
I opened your page, and this happened:



The links became unclickable (XP, FF3, Monobook). RoseOfKali 06:35, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That is part of Mendel's language links project thing that I can't remember exactly what it is. The spacing is slightly different on IE so I can still click the links; but yeah, it's under construction. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, as long as it's fixed in the final version. The only parts that are unclickable are the ones overlapped by the words, so [RoseOfKali my talk my pref...] part is clickable, and the rest, including [...erences], is not.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:02, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it needs a site css change that could break stuff (but probably won't). The page GuildWiki talk:Languages has screenshots of what it's planned to look like, and a poll. -- ◄mendel► 10:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Sig list
GuildWiki_talk:Sign_your_comments. I see Wiz' sig a few pixels wider than mine and Giga's sigs, and Entropy's as shorter than yours (Felix keeps the first place, tho). Is it just me, or an error in the list? :P I also reordered the bottom four on length as I see them in this edit. Do you see any inconsistancies in those? --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  12:18, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I never said the list was strictly ordered; it is meant to convey a representative cross-section of what kind of sigs are around in terms of length and general design (= wikicode), and I've not been pixel-counting, just sorting by rule of thumb because if they're all willy-nilly it's harder to compare them. If you want to be perfect, suit yourself, but personally I don't think it's necessary.
 * That said, yes, I see pretty much the same as you except for Entropy's sig which I can't compare because I got the ox on. Please also consider that the signature ends where the time for the date starts, so Gigathrash's sig is really shorter than yours. (And please do not substitute imaginary dates, I kept the dates to show what time the sig comes from, since people tend to change their sigs now and then.) -- ◄mendel► 12:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see now. Rather obvious now you say it >.> Also, I never added dates; Those people randomly started signing the list, and I thought I'd clean it up a bit. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:37, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I know you never did, but I was afraid that all dates having the same length might seem like a good idea to you.... (or whoever reads this) ;-) -- ◄mendel► 12:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

GW:NPA
I think some people want to change it to GW:NPAUTDI (No personal attacks, unless they deserve it) :P Silver Sunlight (T/C) 16:34, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. &mdash; Article 1 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)
 * Don't shoot people unless they deserve it. -- ◄mendel► 21:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Postscriptum: do try and write Game balance. -- ◄mendel► 21:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I have reverted your block. Saying someone fails at understanding game balance is not a personal attack. It falls under "Don't be a dick", perhaps, but certainly not GW:NPA in a blockworthy fashion. Also, real life laws do not apply here, and we all know the U.N. is garbage when it comes to practical matters anyway. (T/C) 06:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd let it pass if it was a simple statement made in the course of a discussion. This was a well-crafted paragraph posted out of context on the user's talkpage. It addressed a single user, it contained opinion, not fact, the opinion is strongly negative, it made statements about the adressee, not about the poster, it it went quite further than just stating that he doesn't understand game balance, and I am quite sure that most people who read such a statement on their userpage would be offended by it. It not only feels like a personal attack, I think by the criteria listed, you can't deny it is one, and I am not the only one who sees it that way.
 * Is this the style of discussion you want to condone on this wiki? Please reconsider.
 * For me (and actually, for the German constitution as well), "dignity" is one of the unalienable human rights. In fact, our constitution says that no matter what a human (any human on earth) does, he does have dignity, and that means that everybody deserves respect. It applies everywhere. Please understand that I am not lawyering; my intent in quoting that is to show that such a policy, if it existed, would violate some fundamental norms of civilized behaviour.
 * Dignity has not always been understood to be such a fundamental right; that's why most of the older bills of right don't have it. But the present German constitution (and, I assume, the UDHR as well) were written in the light of the Nazi regime, which justified incredible atrocities against the Jews with "they deserved it" (by alledgedly plotting Germany's downfall) and communists, who'd been portrayed as subhuman by German propaganda. It means that most arguments that go "we treat you worse than everybody else because you deserve it" is ill-founded.
 * Of course specific behavour can net you specific consequences; that is what law is all about. But what you're implying in unblocking Auron is that if you post an opinion on a wiki talk page, you can be flamed without consequences, and you have no way to know before you post that this will happen to you. I can't see how we can attract decent people to this wiki with policy like this.
 * Auron posts once in a blue moon these days and probably won't even feel the three days. Nevertheless, you have chosen to unblock Auron without discussing this with me first, although most other wiki admins (and many users both new and old) have been online, probably noticed that before you did, and didn't comment on it (you may have received comments in private, I don't know). Overruling me this way means I hand in my badge and take a long wikibreak if you ever do this again. Yes, I am that pissed. -- ◄mendel► 10:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Then let me save you the trouble. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Entropy, you are biased when it comes to Auron. Just an observation. --Macros 11:03, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Administrators can counteract other administrators, if they feel it prudent. An erroneous ban can be lifted. An erroneous delete can be restored. Typically, only a message on the talk page explaining the reason why such a countermeasure is prudent is expected in such a case. The "reverted" administrator is expected to oblige the revert, and should not reinstitute their action without discussing it with the "reverting" administrator.


 * Again, though this may seem a fairly chaotic governing system, it works extremely well in context of the wiki. An appointment to administrator is not something done lightly. The administrators are a cohesive team, and the mutual respect they share for another, even when disagreeing, is second to only the respect and care they have for the GuildWiki itself.


 * So I heard it's impossible to know Auron without being biased one way or the other. That is all. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but immediately quoting the admin policy seems like a cop-out response and just a way of saying "I have more power than you so I can disregard your arguments." While this may be true, it only serves to piss people off and drive away this wiki's already small userbase. --Macros 11:16, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is better than writing something scathing and inappropriate about an obvious disconnect with reality, don't you think? (Oops.) The admin policy applies equally to all administrators, anyway - it has nothing to do with me being a bureaucrat. As to driving away users: If you're going to rage over something as petty as this, then by all means, go. Because I can assure you I would do the same thing given another chance. I find it highly amusing that things have come to such a state that by exercising the powers granted by both the letter and spirit of our admin policy, in a perfectly ordinary manner, I can cause people to quit the wiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to rage, however, I am going to bed after I post this, so don't expect a reply from me for a while. I just seem to recall some sort of guideline that said admins shouldn't exercise their powers in a dispute they are personally involved with. Karlos got a talking to for that several times, I believe. And, Entropy, I think you are biased when it comes to disputes that involve Auron. This is the basis of my reasoning. Maybe that guideline no longer applies. Maybe it should. --Macros 11:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have blocked auron for two reasons. One, he was right, which is pretty important to me when it comes to fucking retards discussing balance. Two, he very rarely posts so it actually serves np purpose. Since he's got two previous blocks that I remember for NPA, 3 days would actually seem too low if you were going to block. ZZZZZZZZZ. Lord of all tyria 12:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * When it comes to 'biased' aren't all admins 'biased' when it is about other admins/'noticable' users ? IMHO, shouting 'biased' isn't doing that much good in most of the admin discussions. Mendel & Entropy, please, take a step back, count to ten. Is this really worth fighting for. Both of you have my respect, I will not state who is wrong or right about this and I think it is a shame that it comes to this. Mendel, you unblocked without informing other admins. Entropy has problems not being consulted about it. So, someone is agitated, just say 'I'm sorry, next time I think about it before doing such action' and discuss the matter the way it should be done in the first place. NOT by making this discussion bigger then it deserves to be -- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 12:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Mendel, you unblocked without informing other admins. Huh? You got something wrong there. -- ◄mendel► 12:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is true that generally, admins ought to avoid dealing with situations where they are personally involved, because as much as we try it's very hard to remove all traces of personal bias from affecting the decision. However, if you are going to apply that logic to me, then I'll counter by saying Mendel is biased in the opposite direction. Mendel is free to counter this by saying he acknowledged the bias and went through with the action regardless after a thorough examination of the facts; and that leaves me free to say that I did the same. (Unlike game balance and power creep, bias counters bias.)
 * I may or may not be putting words in your mouth/abusing hyperbole with the following statement: If I am so biased that every decision I make with regards to Auron is bound to be in his defense, why isn't he a bureaucrat or sysop anymore? What does that say about condoning such-and-such style of discussion?
 * @Merty...We try, we really do, not to let such rank/visibility differences influence our judgments, but we're not perfect. I also appreciate your concern in this matter, but unfortunately, a storm like this was almost inevitable to break out eventually. By which I mean to say, this is a conflict much deeper than you can understand. So if it seems like it is completely blown out of proportion, you are correct - there are other underlying issues. And while I am sorry that it creates wikidrama to manifest in this way, I do not feel sorry for my actions. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:48, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Mendel is free to counter this: my actual counter is that I did ask for a second opinion, which I received. I also think Merty can understand the deeper conflict, and if he does not, he is free to ask, and I will answer as best I can. -- ◄mendel► 13:00, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) "As to driving away users: If you're going to rage over something as petty as this, then by all means, go."

I'm not the one who raged; I didn't quit the wiki over the ban revert, precisely because there was the chance I'd not understood something well enough, and pointing out that the policy is "revert ban, then discuss" makes me reconsider. Did I get a chance to reconsider? Basically, I feel demoted because of a single post I wrote that expressed a feeling you didn't like; it wasn't even a wiki action that was involved.

You get a special irony bonus because you unbanned Auron because you think he has right to say to Tenetke "I am pissed at your stupidity", but you demote me over saying "I am pissed at your admin action".

I took / am still taking the wikibreak over what I think is an unfair demotion, because I know standing up for yourself in that state of mind is not a good idea. I seem to think that posting these paragraphs is a good idea; partially because I think having others stand up for me without taking a stand myself is not something I like to do. (Thank you!)

We'll see how that goes. A slightly different version was also mailed to Entropy. -- ◄mendel► 12:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * "Overruling me this way means I hand in my badge and take a long wikibreak if you ever do this again."
 * Unless I'm highly deficient in clue today, you were threatening to resign if I ever countered you on an administrative action again. Knowing that this was an all-but-complete certainty, I saved the drama by cutting to the chase. Was I wrong in that? (You of all people I would expect to know the policies best, even better than myself; since you actually bothered to read them, even before being promoted... and you're one of the last people I would expect to retract[?] a prior statement because you did not thoroughly think it through first.)
 * I unbanned Auron because I do not believe he breached NPA or otherwise performed a bannable offense. Your threatening to ban him for it quite possibly provoked him to further hostilities, in addition to it being on his talkpage (semantics difference, but there is one), and thus I still refrain from considering ban-worthy at that point. A warning I would have given, most likely.
 * If I tell someone that their logic is terrible, that is not a personal attack. That is all. It is certainly not a bannable offense by any stretch of the policy. What I take offense with is not the block in and of itself (since, after all, admin discretion = can ban anyone at any time for anything); but rather that you would categorize it as an NPA. "asshattery", "being a dick", etc. would have been much more acceptable. Why do I consider this a problem? Because if the block stands, it expands the scope of NPA to cover anything which could be construed as a personal attack; it puts in a slippery slope notion that "one must be courteous and nice in discussion" or be subject to administrative action.
 * Slight digression - my summary for the unblock is another (smaller) issue, alluded to by Loat above - the block really doesn't solve any problems. Auron posts here very rarely, and thus a block of any appreciable length would have to be for weeks/months. (Which would also be way out of proportion for an NPA; not to mention prior violations are like a year+ old.) Remember the discussion about "block doctrine"? A block is a tool which is to be used preventatively, not punitively. In this case, it seems very clear to me that Auron wasn't on an NPA spree or any crap like that, and thus the block is meaningless; the point would have been to "stop" him, but he did that by himself, and would have done so regardless of the block in any case. You also know as well as I that a simple block won't make him change his discussion style, so "pre-emptive prevention" is also out of the question. Therefore, the block becomes punitive, to serve the interest of..."justice", I suppose... "The user broke policy and so he should be banned." And that is contrary to how the law works on this wiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

(EC) While I don't completely disagree with what Auron posted on Tenetke's talk, I feel that he was unnecessarily rude and condescending which, at this point, are basically Auron trademarks. Don't get me wrong, I like and respect Auron, but he doesn't seem to understand the difference between being "blunt" and just outright being a jackass (because there is indeed a difference). Furthermore, his response to mendel, while perhaps somewhat provoked, was way out of line.

One of my largest concerns in this issue is that Auron's attitude toward Tenetke (ur bad, gtfo *trolls off wiki*) is exactly the attitude that has turned PvX into the cesspit of trolling and retardedness it is today. Letting this slide is a step in a direction I'm not sure you want GuildWiki to take. Even if banning Auron doesn't solve any of the problems with Auron (which I'm fully aware it won't), it sends a message to other would-be trolls that we don't appreciate that kind of behavior.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 13:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Opinion please Mendel
How're we doing? Be honest. -->Suicidal Tendencie 23:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Some good ideas, some not so good. Get on irc if you want details. -- ◄mendel► 23:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * So anyway, who can't tell "men" from "man?" :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:59, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pan likes to address people by syllables of their name - and mine isn't mandel. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 10:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I... can't... I followed a link from someone's page and it wouldn't let me, saying it had expired... it was a while ago. Sorry. -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 10:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? o.O -- ◄mendel► 10:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You forget I'm a noob... irc means nothing to me tbh (e.g. no clue how to get it... the vaguest of ideas as to what it is) Like MSN? -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 10:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indenting does matter - it looked as if you replied to Rose. :-P Irc works like MSN, only the other way around: with MSN, you chat with single users first, and invite them if you want a group chat. With irc, you generally join the group, and can then chat with individual users (although it can be used like an instant messenger, and indeed many open-source messengers can connect to irc). But yeah, the link for browser-based irc on our page is not working (but hopefully will again in February).
 * Go to http://www.mibbit.com/chat/, wait for the page to load completely, where it says IRC: Mibbit webirc, change that to Gamesurge Webirc, edit the nick if you like, and do change the channel from #mibbit to #gwiki. Click Go and wait. Type "Hello" in the box at the bottom and wait (could be 15 minutes before somebody notices (sometimes it takes hours), but everbody in the list on the right will see what you wrote eventually, unless they disconnect first). So just keep the chat window open and check back from time to time. Using a dedicated irc program (or even the Chatzilla firefox plugin) is better than mibbit, so you ought to consider installing that if you intend to use irc regularly. -- ◄mendel► 10:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Wtf are you doing? >.> (T/C) 06:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Triggering one of the biggest spamstorms in recent wiki history, apparently (and inadvertantly). I'm extremely proud that the participant list reads like a "wiki who-is-who". -- ◄mendel► 10:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAM oh, sorry... everyone was doing it, I just wanted to be popular! -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 10:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So if I understand correctly, this is an open invitation to vandalize your page any way I see fit? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)