Talk:Grapple

doylak signet maybe?.
 * The general point of knockdowns is to lineback, to prevent kiting, or to interrupt. This can serve as an interrupt, but if for only that purpose, you could use distracting blow or disrupting dagger. For the other two purposes, it's redundant to have a fast recharging knockdown when you're moving as slow as, well, a dolyak. --Foblove 08:24, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * touche but uhhh doylaks are pretty fast lol they even use rush.
 * Those aren't dolyaks --Blue.rellik 08:51, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * dam ive been found out.... what are they i alway thought they were doylaks
 * They're trained Dolyaks. --Kale Ironfist 01:51, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The Beasts used by the beastmasters aren't dolyaks. Look nothing like them --Blue.rellik 20:41, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Stances
"You lose all stances." All stances? As in, you can possibly have more than one active? That makes no sense. Anyone care to explain? PaintballerOWNZ 17:56, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I would have never noticed that. Maybe they're changing the only one stance active thing (I hope not)? I guess the description could be changed before the actual release.
 * Probably just because most of the skills that will make you "loose all x" is worded because one can loose all of those. Will probably get re-worded. But if they're gonna implement the ability to use more than one stance, that's gonna suck a bit. Copper Elf 18:15, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not so sure "you lose your stance" or "lose stance" sounds better then "you lose all stances" Its probably just for the sake of avoiding the extra wording of "You lose your stance if you are in a stance" Eric368 00:56, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Just for talk trivia, originally this skill didn't make you lose a stance which made A steady stance warrior even more godly --Blue.rellik 08:28, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * And that's why Izzy changed it, he actually listened to people and realized how godly overpowered it would be --Gimmethegepgun 01:05, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

More Combos
For preventing the self-KD:


 * Aura of Stability on a Wammo, or even on a Mo/W for self-defense.
 * Fleeting Stability on a D/W; no Dervish skills cause KD (on foes).

Or, try:


 * "I Meant to Do That!" to KD the foe and gain Adrenaline at the same time.
 * "On Your Knees!" to instantly recharge whatever Stances you just lost.

You know Shove? This skill will easily replace it in The Deep for causing KD on Kanaxai, if only because it's not elite. (T/C) 01:53, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, since Dolyak Signet is already commonplace among Deep tanks, it works even better.


 * Everything I agree with except for Aura of Stabilty, which can't be used on yourself. =( Gerid of Fire 01:04, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea. I can see Grapple > Shove in the Deep, as the warrior going down doesn't mean much. (S)He aint the damage dealer, so I mean, it would be very useful there. :) [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * What would our elite be? WHAT WOULD THEY BE?! *runs around like a chicken without its head* On a more serious note, this will lead to interesting knockdown chains (3 Warriors with stonefist = 9 seconds of kd, with a 12 recharge). Knocklocks are gonna be awesome against Kanaxai. --Kale Ironfist 01:51, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I thought that whenever you KD kanaxai he summons more enemies or something? --Gimmethegepgun 01:04, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

i think "Brace Yourself!" would work with this if it was equiped on your partner. get to knock the person down, you remain standing and you deal damage. Balthazar's Pendulum might also work but all you really get is that you won't be knocked down and it takes up a space of an elite. J1j2j3 22:40, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Balth Pend wont work cause it's when target ally gets KD by a foe. [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)

Yeah, in your face Kanagay!!!PvEreanor 11:10, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Possible use found for an E/W? (Ward of Stability!) - Vermain 22:58, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Yes, but what are the chances that you are in the ward and your foe is outside it? Pretty slim. ~Ranger
 * Wards only affect the 1 side they're meant to effect: melee afects party only, while ward against foes affects enemy only. This only affects party, so if it's inside it doesn't matter --Gimmethegepgun 01:04, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Granted, it might be difficult to actually stay inside the Ward, but if you had two of them, you could probably layer the current area of fighting pretty well. Even then, it'd be an effective way of herding the enemy (or else their Monks will get chain knockdowned by the E/Ws). - Vermain 10:18, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

The Deep
Good for the W/A tanks so you can use another elite instead of shove. Click-->Swift Thief 23:07, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * As in the section above, what would your elite be? --Kale Ironfist 00:16, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You're a dedicated Tank, so...Defy Pain, Obsidian Flesh? I dunno...maybe even Charge or Steady Stance. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:56, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You're a W/A with high strength and tactics. Steady Stance gets owned by Grapple, and "Charge!" isn't too useful. --Kale Ironfist 23:50, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I've never been there, so I wouldn't know W/A was "The Thing". >.> Anyways, how bout Shadow Form :D Kidding of course...In any case, Defy Pain would probably be the winner I guess. +Health and +Armor for the Tank is never a bad thing. No good Azn elites for a War... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:54, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh wait, DUH. Gladiator's Defense, "Victory is Mine!", or Auspicious Parry. Can't believe I forgot those. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:57, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * No. --Blue.rellik 23:59, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * No what, and why. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:00, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Gladiator's Defense is eclipsed by both Shield and Defensive Stance due to duration. You would only have ~4 seconds of no block protection, if ever. While you could bring it, it sucks because it's a crappy skill to bring (PvPify it and people will bring it).
 * ViM! is wasted because the only conditions EVER brought are burning, weakness and/or daze. And there is no guarantee any or all will be brought (weakness and burning are highly likely, but not guaranteed)
 * AP, kind of wasteful, you've got no use for the adrenaline, and it takes your stance.
 * All in all, the elites just don't do enough. Sure, you could bring them, but they won't be used much. Best I could think up was Shadow Meld for a cheaper version of Recall, but it has a higher recharge (which you don't really take advantage of anyway). --Kale Ironfist 00:08, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I guess it would help me more if I had actually ever seen the W/A build for The Deep, as well as the rest of the recommended team. >.> Gogo Defy Pain! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:10, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess it would make deep tank a bit more personalized and creative... OMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!
 * i'd say ppl would probably bring shove and grapple due to shove having good armor ignoring but it would no longer be a necessity.124.177.71.100 02:28, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Bugs?
If you have Stonefist gauntlets on, it knocks you both down for 3 seconds. Also Brace Yourself does not trigger. --Dragonaxe 13:52, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If brace yourself does not work, that's indeed a bug, needs confirmation though. But Stonefist Gauntlets works as intended. For example, barbed/poisonous/etc. weapon mods extend self-inflicted conditions, so the gauntlets should be expected to work on self-inflicted KDs. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 04:12, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Stonefist gauntlets say 'foes'. Izzy, however, has said that it is intentional to KD yourself for 3 seconds. Other self KDs don't KD that long (Both Tactics DBlows) IIRC. --Kale Ironfist 04:44, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * condition mods also say on foe, so... --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 05:48, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * There's a few of thse errors in the game --Blue.rellik 05:50, 28 August 2007 (CDT)


 * The mods extending conditions on yourself I fine to be quite logical. It increases the condition duration unconditionally, ally or not. But considering the most logical outcome, you'll likely be putting the conditions on a foe hence "on foe". Also it cuts down out words for the description. : 3 In reality, it simply increases the duration but phrases as "on foes" to not confuse people that it would extend the duration of conditions applied by a foe onto the wielder. Flechette 05:57, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Problem is that it increases duration of conditions caused by you, whether or not the condition was applied on a foe. Case in point, Signet of Agony or Chilblains. --Kale Ironfist 06:26, 28 August 2007 (CDT)