Talk:Battle Rage

The second and third paragraph in the notes are generic warrior tips. They should be moved to the warrior tips or Adrenaline tips. --Karlos 14:33, 15 Oct 2005 (EST)

Usage Notes
Is there any standard for giving %-boosts? FGJ + Battle Rage gives a 3x increase of adren per attack (75 instead of 25). Just wondindering what is best to write, a 200% "boost" (which it was originally), "300% adrenaline gain ..." (as it is currently), or something completely different? F.ex. dropping the %'s entirely, and instead writing "resulting in three times as much adrenaline gained from successfull attacks compared to the normal amount"? My main point being it might be hard to understand the difference between a "boost", not including the 100% normal amount, and the total modified value, as the last few edits have shown. --Rydier 09:09, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

Note
This note wa sput in this skill's usage notes when it does not really pertain to battle rage, I am placing it here in case author wants to use it where it fits more:

''Note that stances get overwritten by the Battle Rage stance and that Battle Rage ends if you use a non attack skill! This restricts energy based skills to up to 4 attack skills and up to 2 maintaineded enchantments or you will just lose all adrenaline and Battle Rage!

However, this approach can be easily countered. It is more vulnerable to spells that slow your hit rate. Also Soothing Images would virtually render you useless, and coupled with Ethereal Burden or Hamstring would make you nearly harmless. In these situations, focus on your energy-bases skills and target the character squelching your adrenaline. Another simple counter would be any attack that knocks you out of your stance, like Wild Blow.''

--Karlos 20:03, 15 Oct 2005 (EST)

If used with a furious weapon, you would get have a 10% chance to get quadruple adrenaline, right? --Enishi 20:45, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * In about 50 tries, I was unable to get four strikes using furious and battle rage together. --Fyren 19:28, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Vigorous Spirit, Watchful Spirit
What kind of newbie added that last note?

Consider using Vigorous Spirit, Watchful Spirit or another monk enchantment to heal yourself while fighting and not disrupting the flow.

I'm deleting it.

--Lim-Dul 20:43, 16 November 2006 (CST)
 * 1) It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Battle Rage - rather with melee combat in general
 * 2) It only applies to friggin self-healing WaMo paladins
 * 3) It only applies to RA and maybe AB, where you can't rely on a Mo to heal you
 * 4) Not to mention the fact that it promotes lame tactics as if the Ws main job was to heal himself...
 * It has a lot to do with Battle Rage, actually. Battle Rage kills your adrenaline when it ends, so you want to keep it from ending as much as possible. The line you trashed was just a poor way of expressing this general sentiment: "Once you enter Battle Rage, doing anything other than attacking will cause you to lose all your adrenaline. Therefore, you want to use continuous effects for all that utility stuff." &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 15:04, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * It has everything to do w/ Battle rage, Constant attack doesn't leave you much time to heal. By using vig spir, you have more time attacking and less time worrying about a self heal. Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:44, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Adrenaline
An anonymous user changed the notes (presumably because ANet said adrenaline gain is capped at +100%), but it doesn't really work that way. Battle rage and FGJ will stack. Battle rage, FGJ, and infurating heat will all stack even. Either the mechanics or what ANet said are presumably wrong. --Fyren 07:53, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * After testing with a limited number of skills (using the points required detailed in Adrenaline), I'm forced to concede to Fyren on this issue. Either Battle Rage doesn't increase the percentage gain (and instead provides an additional strike of adrenaline akin to Dark Fury), or the mechanics detailed in the update are wrong. 220.233.103.77 02:06, 14 December 2006 (CST)
 * And now, BR and FGJ apparently no longer stack. --Fyren 23:38, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

ANet Should Buff This
Who agrees with me? Because if I had a choice between the skills Battle Rage and "For Great Justice" I would pick FGJ because Battle Rage does not last as long as FGJ.Battle Rage is also a stance which is some what annoying, because warriors have way too many stances we don't need one just for adrenaline and anyway FGJ has no attribute which is great.For example: If you're anywhere and your life is going down you really need to cast a non attack skill other wise Battle Rage would end, therefore when this skill ends you lose all your adrenaline. This skill is an elite while FGJ is a normal skill, so I could get a better elite then this. What do you think?

--Soles12:56,4 March 2007 (EST)
 * I would choose this. Because FGJ cost 10 energy, cant be used permantly and gives a smaller boost to aldrenaline. BTW leave the healing to monks.- [[Image:Avatar of Lyssa.jpg|19px]] Leader Rat  07:00, 10 March 2007 (CST)


 * While Battle Rage does present some unique problems (can't use IAS or defensive stances), it provides an essentially limitless speedbuff and the effects of FGJ without any energy cost. It is certainly not one of the best elites, and I would never take it in favor of...say...Rage of the Ntouka or even Flourish, but it is very simple to use and difficult to counter. Battle Rage is a pretty good skill for Adrenaline spammers, and nicely balances out a Warrior's bar so that they can use Energy with no worries. No buff needed imho, though I would like to see the figures raised to 33%, perhaps at the cost of another strike or two of Adrenaline... etc. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:38, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Stacking
"Battle Rage and "For Great Justice!" do stack, multiplicatively, to give you 150% adrenaline gain for successful attacks."

battle rage doubles, "For Great Justice!" gives 150%, how does this stack to 150%????
 * There should probably be a + in front of the 150% so that it says "to give you +150% adrenaline gain for successful attacks". --Kale Ironfist 08:45, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If it were actually multiplicative, it would have been 300% or +200%, but at some point during the weekend they actually fixed it so the max is +100%... which they said they implemented in September. --Fyren 23:43, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Final Thrust
This is GREAT in a basic Sever->Gash->X->Final Thrust build. Faster attacking, double adrenaline, then just recast it right after Final Thrust for another go. Incredible killing power. -Samurai-JM - 12:07, 24 April 2007 (CDT)


 * What are you getting faster attacking from? this increases movement speed.-- Thelordofblah 17:01, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Wait... nvm :D Tested this and it... didn't work. :) Final thrust removes all adrenaline so you cant power up battle rage again... And I'm not sre where I got faster attacking from... -Samurai-JM - 14:59, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I don't know why people assume final thrust will work well with Battle Rage. It's actually a terrible combo, messing up renewal of the stance.  Much better is Standing Slash, Sun and Moon slash, silverwing/galrath slash.  The two adrenaline gain from Sun and Moon is further doubled by Battle Rage, producing a high damage easily renewable chain which isn't affected by stuff like, "target has no flesh!".  I removed the advice in the notes section advising it be used with final thrust, but in the process I fear I made muddy water muddier.  -Anon user

Mr. 69.157.17.76, not much of a point in signing a comment when I can just hit history to see your IP. Anyways, this has some poptential for PvE, but for PvP just use the standard Cripslash/Dev Hammer Frontline.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 15:25, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Now That I Am Done Feeling Like An Idiot...
72.193.215.77 If you remove things please post a reason as to why. Untill then I am re-inserting the section. -68.1.72.165
 * Though I am not the anon who reverted it, your tactic is absolute rubbish, which is why it was removed. --Kale Ironfist 20:26, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * WHY is it rubbish? Thats What the Talk pages are for.
 * Yeah..it is rubbish. First of all, you have to go /mo. Second, you ahev to spec into healing prayers so you waste attributes. Third of all, you lose 1 pip of energy regen. Fourth of all, you are now fodder for enchantment strippers. You can actually help the team if they have Drain Enchantment. Not to mention, X health every 1.33 seconds sounds good....but, come on...people kite, you'll be chasing them more than hitting them. The list goes on and on forever. Too bad the anon already broke GW:1RV...but he was right. Justbelieve me, that idea soudns good, but isn't.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:42, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You didn't read it did you?
 * Many users have tried to show you why your concept is flawed and you continue not to listen. Stop acting childish and accept the fact that your idea sucks.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:32, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

people kite, you'll be chasing them more than hitting them
 * How do you kite someone who has +25% move speed?
 * By moving, you're reducing the number of hits that come into contact. It doesn't matter that you've got a speed boost. Thus, realistically, your tip would only help PvE, and even then, the health gain is pathetic. You're better off using two maintained enchantments on your monk (such as Balthazar's Spirit and Succor) and and not actually waste attribute points while still buffing your party (by improving the energy regen on your monk). --Kale Ironfist 22:09, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There is VERY little downtime when you are chasing a monk with this. If you tell me how to I will insert the build I use.
 * Replace the 'skill' in the template after 'mini skill bar' with the skills you use. Make sure to post attribute point distribution. --Kale Ironfist 22:35, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

Distribution is

Str: 10+3

Sword: 11+4

Healing: 10



Distribution is

Str: 10+3

Ax: 11+4

Healing: 10
 * Therein lies your problem. Both builds presented are completely offense oriented that they leave no utility and only mediocre healing over time, and its made worse that if Battle Rage ends, you lose all adrenaline (which happens quite often). While there is no spike, there is definitely pressure in those builds. Unfortunately, pressuring with such a vulnerable bar is nigh impossible. Not only that, but you've got two superior runes. To me, both bars look like a mishmash of adrenal skills to fit Battle Rages' requirements, focusing only on +damage and conditions, without actual consideration to whom you face or what utility to bring. --Kale Ironfist 23:09, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The thing is is that Live is just there to keep things at a manageable level for your monk. People seem to think that that is your ONLY healing. As to adreanlin loss to Battle: due to the fact that you gain x2 with each hit it is not such a big deal. Also how is having two Sup bad? If health is a problem have a Ranger bring Symbiosis. As to the no utility comment. These build are intended to be used in tandem. Sword provides damage and Ax the disruption, crippling, and weakening.
 * So why does the sword build not have res sig? And why would you bring live vicariously on both of them if you're supposed to use both builds together?
 * Live only works for the person casting it. And you can tweak the builds if you want to. It just depends on what you are doing. If you use them togethat you can change Gash to Rez Sig.

If nobody can give me a good reason as to why the tactic is useless I am reposting it. Done25 16:00, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I assume you cannot read, as there are quite a few posted above. Lord of all tyria 16:01, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * A GOOD reason. Done25 16:03, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You are speccing 10 into healing when heal sig is better. You are required to go /mo, which means no conjure and less damage. You have 2 sup runes, which makes you spike fodder (don't say about symbiosis, it would get killed by the other team). Kiting reduces ur health per second dramatically. If you wish to waste energy, cast some enchantments on your monks. Lord of all tyria 16:06, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The thing is you cannot use Heal Sig with Battle on. If you use Conj you have to put points into that too. Ass to the Spike thing have a Monk bring Protective Spirit if you are worring about Spike. Cant really do anything about Symbiosis. And you can't kite when the chaser has a speed boost and you are crippled.
 * You don't put 10 points into a conjure, and warriors exist to do damage, making conjure better than live vicariously. Kiting still reduces dps, which reduces your health gain, making it even more insignificant then before. As well as making you spike fodder, a low max health also makes you more susceptible to pressure. As before, minimal healing is a waste of your energy. Lord of all tyria 16:14, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you know haw much 24 health every 1.33 sec gives you? (In regen) BTW Wars are NOT for dealing damage. If you want that pick Sin or Elementalist.
 * I'm sorry, did you just say warriors aren't for dealing damage? If you think that you clearly have no idea, at all. Lord of all tyria 16:18, 30 May 2007 (CDT)


 * LOL!!! Since when have warriors not been for dealing damage? I don't see how it is 24 health every 1.33 seconds when Live Vicariously only gives 12 per hit and kiting will further reduce the speed of health gain
 * Live Vicariously at 12 healing prayers does the same thing as Vigorous Spirit at 9 healing prayers? VS lasts 30 seconds so you can put it on before entering battle rage. LV is no more effective with Battle Rage than it is with any other combo. It seems that maybe its your preference to use LV with Battle Rage but its not a particularly important tactic (nevermind its not the best combo) and doesn't need to be mentioned. And I have never heard of a monk complainining that their tanks didn't bring enough of their own self heals in a group. My monk carries VS (which is much better cause i have the POINTS in healing). I know how useful it is to have the warriors getting heals coming in like that but its not important for THEM to bring it. Nor would I ever want them to&mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 16:20, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

I am going to spell it out for you then. VS can be applyed by your monk LV can NOT. VS has to be re-applyed and if you use it *POOF* all of your adrenalin is gone. Not so with LV.
 * The point there was that the warrior shouldn't carry either, the monk should just use VS on you to give you better healing without wasting attributes. Lord of all tyria 16:36, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The thing is sence your Tactic skills are now harmful to you it helps keep pressure off of your Monks energy bar to bring LV.
 * The monk needs to cast a 5 energy spell every 30 seconds (VS), thats hardly pressure. And if that 5 energy is a problem, you could maintain succor on them, which would generate twice as much energy as is necessary for it. Lord of all tyria 16:45, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * So you're saying that 10 Healing Prayers for LV is better than maxing Strength and Sword/Axe Mastery? Also, you can still use tactics (Soldier's Strike and Thrill of Victory). And i'm sure that a 5-energy enchantment every 30 or 36 seconds will have a HUGE effect on a monk's energy.


 * Besides, unless you're using a hammer, it really doesn't take very long to get that pathetic 4 adrenaline back after it ends from using Healing Signet (from personal experience, I often use this in Aspenwood) --Gimmethegepgun 16:50, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Math W/o Battle. 1.33 * 4 = 5.2 sec to recharge BR. you are now at 3 adr. to get 8 adren for Gar or Exe. you must swing 3 more times that 5.2 + (1.33*3) = 9.19 sec

With BR it takes 4 swings = 5.32 > 9.19. Also if they run you get more hits in with Battle on.
 * Warriors not for damage? lmao XD. You just lost your credibility there in my eyes. Readem (talk *contribs ) 17:35, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Tell me how Wars do more damage than eles or sins. Done25 17:39, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Here you go. --8765 17:51, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * How does that prove anything? (a bit more spicific than look at 50 pages)

Do the math, read the first post carefully, read the first post, read not skim the first post. I don't think that topic could be explained any better. --8765 19:35, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's already been established this guy is a VERY inexperienced warrrior. Just give up, he doesn't understand. I've tried a couple times but he still thinks his builds is great. Maybe we should just get an admin so he doesn't re-add the page or something...or protect it, idk.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 19:40, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW symbiosis will help enemies more than it helps you...and there are numerous other reason's but I've already given up on you...several ussers have taken the time to thoroughly explain it but you just don't listen.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 19:41, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Please list the points and I will tell you how I responded. Done25 19:46, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Alright then, if you think warriors are aren't meant for damage, we should all just run 5 Me/E's. That'll work. M s4 20:32, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * To that one guy saying that warriors don't do damage compared to Elementalists and Assassins... look at the skillbar. It only has +damage skills. If you believe that Warriors don't do damage, WHY is it filled with +damage? While it is wasteful to have so many attack skills and only the axe bar having any sort of utility (Disrupting Chop), the thread 8765 linked to demonstrates how much battlefield presence a Warrior has. Although the numbers are only relevant at the time of writing (March 2006), very few of those numbers have changed. Add in the Paragon who does better than the axe damage values and is harder to kite, and you see how physicals do better than casters at damage. If you're going to have Battle Rage, be sure to bring skills that are synergistic with it, and Live Vicariously just doesn't cut it. You're better off using Succor and cutting out some of the adrenal skills in favor of energy skills for added utility. Or more specifically, use an elite that doesn't kill your ability to pressure when it's based around pressuring. --Kale Ironfist 20:54, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * *needs to explain things better...and get an asprin* I have a head ache but I will try to tell it better. Ele 60 vs Warr 80 = warr has better armor.

War does ave of 17 damage with every normal swing. With Stone dagger my ele dose 70 damage in the same time without counting the 20/20. As you can see Eles have a higher DPS but thats only if they can cast. If they are running the warr has the upper hand.
 * Um... except the part where you didn't read ensign's "Why nuking sucks." Eles have mildly decent DPS with stone dagger/flare spam, *except the part where they spend 180 energy per minute*, which is why warriors blow them out of the water. And on average, axes do more than 17 damage per hit, *plus* all the skills they get (not the least of which is deep wound, an instant 1/3-1/4 of their life gone in one hit).
 * Back on topic, however, let your monks do their job. TBH both Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit suck. Neither is efficient, although vigorous tries to be, but requires you to do stuff 24/7 to get healed, which generally doesn't happen. A standard monk bar with rof/goh/etc can keep you alive better than a half-specced live vic. If you're a warrior, focus on killing stuff; you'd make everyone happier. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 21:32, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * In response to your "180 energy a minute," why the heck do you think elementalists have energy storage and attunements for?--69.47.207.100 21:38, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Energy storage is not energy management, it's an exhaustion buffer. Attunements are nice, but very very fragile; notice how warriors don't have to rely on anything of the sort. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 21:43, 30 May 2007 (CDT)


 * First things first; to the original point here, there's a reason why Warriors running Mending and such aren't necessarily top-caliber, even with the ability to use non-attack skills in battle. As it stands, the tip the anon placed in the article wasn't necessarily useful; thus, it was removed. Perhaps a mention of "skills that can be maintained for the duration of Battle Rage are especially useful."
 * But if I may mention my personal opinion on the subject; if anything, I don't think Battle Rage means you should be stuck with a skillbar with no utility whatsoever. At four strikes, it's relatively cheap to re-activate. If anything, simply run it with a few skills with high adrenaline costs, such as Sun&Moon/, etc... if you need to heal, then just use Healsig, and forget the rest of the skills. Re-activate Battle Rage when you're not dying, and keep up the fight... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 21:55, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Glorious! Someone FINALLY said it! This is EXACTLY what you should do with this skill: high adrenaline cost (or low with spammability) and use healsig when you need it! --Gimmethegepgun 22:05, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Ignoring the fact that that article makes eles look bad (I do more damage than a warrior dammit!). NO, LV DOESN'T GET MENTIONED ON THIS PAGE. THE END!&mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 21:59, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

I have an Idea. Why not have 2 people useing my builds fight 2 people using Heal sig and we will see who wins. I win the tip goes up. You win I shut up. Deal?
 * You do realise that Guild Wars was never designed around 1v1s right? Take the build to GvG, and we'll see how well it performs. THEN come back to us. --Kale Ironfist 09:04, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Then how do you want it set up? 4v4 8v8? Done25 09:07, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * If you want an 8v8 scrim, get your heroes and I'll guest you at my guild. Lord of all tyria 09:11, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I dont have Heros so I will use the Henchmen. The name is The End Of Eternity. Done25 09:13, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I won. /bow Lord of all tyria 09:31, 31 May 2007 (CDT)