Talk:Master of Magic

This skill is far more potent then it appears at first glance. Im quite impressed with its subtlelty, actually. Ubermancer 23:31, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Very subtle indeed, but can you tell me how this compares to Ether Prism? -Thomas 04:14, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * For the moment this skill is bugged : you gain energy for each recharging Skill that doesn't share this Spell's attribute Titine 07:13, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * If so, then I reckon it's the description which is wrong. The new ele skills suggest Anet is trying to push the use of two different elemental attributes. --Buzzer 03:29, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Nice spell. Spam Flare, Stone daggers etc while your spike recharges.193.61.111.50 09:33, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Dual element? Maybe, but... How about SMITE! (Or hell, you could even keep up constant blood magic lifesteal). I'm looking forward to this one. a LOT. Though it should probably give less energy. like... 3 at 15 energy minimum. --Crazytreeboy 20:49, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * How many spells are you going to have on recharge from Energy Storage besides this? I think it should be "from THAT spell's attribute". --Mira 12:57, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It is isn't it? Like you cast vampiric gaze and get 4 energy from shadow strike and oppressive gaze? &mdash; Skuld 13:02, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Nope. They are all in Blood Magic. You would get 2 energy from Master of Magic's own recharge though, as it's in a different attribute line (Energy Storage). The description is badly worded. It should say "that does not share *that* spell's attribute. This elite gives back energy for each spell that is both recharging, and in a different attribute line to the spell you have just cast.Labmonkey 06:01, 21 December 2006 (CST)

This spell has a great name. Assassinman 22:02, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Bet I can guess the name of the boss to have this skill! or at least part of the name... ~Avatarian 86 23:31, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * What, something like Steve Barcia? :P. This doesn't seem too bad, since you could spam something like flare during downtime for pretty much free (or energy gain). Kind of like Ether Renewal, Hopefully it doesn't get owned by the nerf bat.--GTPoompt 03:50, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

Wonder if this is in refrance to the old Microprose game "Masters Of Magic" great old turn based stratagy game.--NovaTalon 17:00, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

This is/would be incredibly godly for e/n. Use AoR as well to counter any saccing incurred, kinetic if you think it's worth it as you're spamming, use glyph of sacrifice to take a short recharge spell and make it into a long one. Very interesting. Consider, vamp gaze/touch of agony-opp gaze-AtB-demonic flesh-AoR-MoM-res/kinetic-barbed signet or something along those lines.Phool 15:13, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

There's a boss inside the gate to Jahai fortress with this. I suspect you can kill him with non-line of sight stuff and cap, but I didn't try. There's another boss in Yatendi canyons a little south of the chantry. --Fyren 01:47, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Seems the placement of the boss has been fixed, when I encountered him (to my grief, as I was trying to map Jahai Bluffs and was singularly ill-prepared for the encounter ...) he was not inside the gate but was in the little courtyard just before. Amarande 13:31, 16 November 2006 (CST)

E/R combined with this and long recharge beast mastery shouts? it says recharging SKILLS, not spells, so you could set 3 recharging (4 with MoM itself), and you have good E-management, 8 energy per spell, still, wasting 4 slots and your elite skill on energy management isn't great, when you could just use Ether Prism (<< best skill EVAR?!) --Terrifi Cani 06:29, 30 October 2006 (CST)

synergy-skills with disableing
use this with skills that will force some of your skills to recharge -gift of health, maintain good healing when needed, use this skill to assist monks and then get all the bonus from the other healing skills being disabled (add to heal party and healing breeze spam,7 seconds should be enough time to cast your spike skills, maybe one or two aoe or a conjure spell added in) -auspicious incantation will help you gain a large amount of energy back from a high energy spell, as well as forcing a higher recharge-great for use right before a spike with a bunch of skills

This is still behaving unsually... I will research it and find out more later however it appears to count itself in its own caculations. and having more than 1 skill in an attrbiute line rechargeing dosen't alter the amount of energy gained.

so for each recharging skill of other unique attribute, you gain +2 energy from casting spells? that doesn't seem useful-but does seem spam oriented... use it with energizing wind and some other stuff i suppose

In action
Ok I wanted to clarify this skill in my own mind so here's a test: - At 12 Energy storage it makes 2 energy gain per recharging non-same-tree skill



What I can say after this test: There was 6 skills disabled (Gift of health + 4 healing prayers skill + Master of Magic itself) then I Cast Lightning strike on the test target Gives Back 12 Mana The Skill gives energy for each recharging skill which is not from the Air magic (in this case) skill tree

" For 20 seconds, whenever you cast a Spell, you gain 0...2 Energy for each recharging Skill that does not share the cast Spell's attribute. "

Well I hope I've been helpful :D.--Vereen 02:00AM Paris time, 25 November 2006
 * Nice to know, thank you. Now I can figure how to use it. --Crazytreeboy 23:02, 24 November 2006 (CST)

Are adrenaline skills recharging? that could be awsome with a few spamable skills and the rest of the bar filled with paragon/warrior adrenil shouts.--Coloneh RIP 19:10, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * Most aren't. Auspicious Parry and three or four of the Paragon chants are.172.142.9.30 04:09, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * I didnt mean skills with a recharge time. I meant Are uncharged adrenaline skills considered "recharging" for the mechanics of this skill.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 18:34, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * awwwww.... dosnt work.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 00:48, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * It says "Spell" anyway, adrenal stuff are "skills". Not the same.--Kanyatta 11:13, 6 June 2007
 * No, it says skill and spell. When you cast a spell you get energy per skill.  When adrenalin skills are recharging, they are incapable of gaining adrenalin.66.119.143.249 15:19, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

So, No Attribute skills are considered an attribute line. Casting Web of Disruption with a recharging Arcane Echo gives no energy return. But casting Aura of Restoration with a Glyph or Arcane Echo recharging WILL. Also, this skill counts the echoed skills attribute, not Arcanes. So if you echo Aura of Restoration, then cast the echo, you'll get 0 return from your recharging MoM and Aura of Restoration. More testing to come! --Crazytreeboy 23:21, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * The description says "does not share" the attribute, not "in a different attribute." --Fyren 03:13, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Note
Description is perfectly clear to me &mdash; Skuld 02:45, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * It was perfectly clear to me when I first glanced at the description, but it's gramatically ambiguous (the this may refer to the spell Master of Magic and not the cast spell) and as such I think the message should be there. --Qian Khan 03:38, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ah. I see how you read it, Skuld. Didn't notice it that way before. Yes, it's grammatically ambiguous, but it's also just generally ambiguous. I know a few people that tried it out only to get energy-pwned. (Ever try casting a few echo'd Meteor Showers with around 10 energy?) --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:50, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Trivia
Naming an elite after an extremely minor tutorial NPC, discuss. &mdash; Skuld 11:41, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Very, very unlikely. Probably just a coincidence. - Bcstingg 11:55, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * More likely that the tutorial NPC was named after the same RP game, imo. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 11:56, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Still a Possibility which is why it SHOULD be listed. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.75.65.254 (talk &bull; contribs) 12:01, January 8, 2007 (CST).
 * But the purpose of the wiki is not to list every possibility. Otherwise, we would have to note that Shadow of Fear (monster) may be named after Shadow of Fear (skill) -- even though they have nothing to do with each other -- simply because it's possible. On subjects where speculation is involved, we generally want to single out the most likely possibility, but multiple possibilities may be listed if several options seem equally plausible. The chance that ArenaNet singled out one master from the Isle of the Nameless and named this skill after him is remote, especially considering (1) The existence of the game of the same name, (2) That the NPC does not do or say anything to bring this skill to mind, and is related in name only, and (3) That the skill name is appropriate for what it does, and may not even be a reference at all. For precedence in not listing every possibility, see Brutus and Sheena, among others. - Bcstingg 12:35, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * ive removed the reference, per general consensus. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 14:08, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * made the change, but 72.75.65.254 changed it back... leaving it for the moment, dont want to start an RV war... &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 18:12, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * I changed it back again, and warned 72.75.65.254 about GW:1RV on his talk page - as he has been warned, further re-insertion of the trivia against the general concensus of the wiki community could result in a ban. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:18, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * I changed it back, I'm sorry but I agree with the other 2 people, If theres enough reason to post a link to the NPC at the top of the page, then theres reason enough to post it in Trivia. - 213.63.185.22
 * Why would you change it back after we JUST got done talking about the reverting policy? I disagree with your reasoning.  The link at the top serves to differentiate between a similarly named article, in this case, an NPC.  The fact that there exists an article or character by similar name has absolutely nothing to do with Trivia.  Also note that the phrase "Master of..." is very generic and can be applied as a prefix to several terms.  Until there is something that is highly suggestive of relation (and not just the coincidence of words), claiming that the Master of Magic spell and the Master of Magic NPC are causal is simply grabbing at thin air.  Not every skill has to have a trivia reference; don't try to force one in.--Ninjatek 07:02, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * Changing the article while fully aware the comunity opinion in the discussion here is an act of willful vandalism. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:42, 9 January 2007 (CST)

The skill name likely pays homage to the fantasy novel Master of the Five Magics, in which the main character breaks the magical mold by simultaneously employing several different branches of magic to defeat an otherwise invulnerable villain. --Tansor 20:08, 23 March 2007 (CST)

Uses
I found that a used Res Signet DOES COUNT as a recharging skill for the sake of this spell. This may prove useful to bring the Res signet along with Sunspear Rebirth Signet to boost it to 4. Also this spell works well with Heal Party + Reversal of Fortune + 4 'othher attribute skills' + the above mentioned signets as a healing spammer in some PvE missions.--Saranis 23:16, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Just use glyph of sacrifice on EVERYTHING. you will have the nice long recharges you need.--Coloneh RIP 00:24, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Or you could combine the skill with ritualist binding rituals. Long cool-down times and strategic control in pvp. 19:48, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Note that Sunspear and Luxon/Kurzick Skills are their own lines. Take Intensity and Ele Lord with this and you have: Great spike power against mobs for 10 seconds. Great energy management in between Intensity casts. With MoM and both SS skills recharging, casting a spell from any line other than E storage gives you 6e. Of course the ultimate combination is Selfless Spirit and this on a MoM smiter for PVE (only NM where AOE is less of an issue)Labmonkey 10:46, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

Faction skills
Someone should check to see whether the Luxon and Kurzick skills count properly for this. If they do, then having both titles could actually be useful, since you could get an extra bit of energy from it if you wanted the skill for your primary and secondary profession --Gimmethegepgun 16:05, 14 August 2007 (CDT)


 * How would both titles be useful, if you can only have one copy of the skill on your skill bar (you can't have both kurzick and luxon version skill on your skill bar) --Lann 17:18, 14 August 2007 (CDT)


 * What I mean is you have the Luxon version of 1 of the 2 skills you can get and the Kurz version of the other one your prof combo can get, would they count as separate skill tracks and trigger this? --Gimmethegepgun 18:48, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

update
Amazing possibilities abound. You can have 9-16 Energy storage and the rest of your attributes in a secondary profession, plus 12 for each element. This skill is goind to be fuuun. (T/C) 02:07, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Synergy just took on a whole new meaning. /thinkingofimbabuild - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  02:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like fun. If it gets ripped off though, you're completely useless :) &mdash; Perfectsam  [[Image:PerfectsamPiano.png]] 02:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt this is going to stay like this for long, at least not in PvP Ninjasks89 04:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You can have glyph of elemental power along with some maintainable monk enchantments= FTW 71.231.154.115 04:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Primatic insignias + Glyph of Elemental Power anyone... 80AL and 14 all attributes
 * Unfortunately, it ends if you cast GoEP after it. Even if you cast GoEP before MoM, it still doesn't matter, as the attributes are set to 12 and nothing can change it. Not runes, or skills, or weakness. --Macros 05:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Prismatic Insigs are worthwhile still :). Big Bow 05:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How does Wail of Doom affect this plz. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

This skill is now more useless to the bosses in PvE, it even makes them weaker. TheDrunkenHobo 19:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Captain Mwende was overpowered anyway. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It says that: "This enchantment ends if you use a non-elemental skill." Too bad we can't use skills from the Ritualist channeling/spawning power attribute lines that causes lightning damage, or even the Dervish Earth/Wind Prayers...technically they can be 'elemental skills' :( &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.135.21.79 (contribs).
 * Has anyone tested what exactly it means by "elemental skills"? Does that mean Elementalist skills, or just skills from Air, Earth, Fire, or Water Magic lines? --Gimmethegepgun 03:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but your guess is as good as mine; I would say it means Earth, Air, Fire, Water attributes, but I haven't tested. King Neoterikos 05:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tested, that's why I wrote it. I tried Ritualist lightning skills, it ends Master of Magic, Same with Dervish Earth/Wind prayers skills. Unfortunately it means just Elementalist elemental attribute skills...
 * I never asked if it would end on those, because obviously it would. I'm asking if it ends on Energy Storage or Elementalist Unlinked skills or not. Also, does it change Energy Storage level or not? --Gimmethegepgun 06:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it doesn't screw around with Energy Storage attribute wise and I think GoLE/GoEP removed it. I spent most of yesterday goofing around, making gimmicky builds with the new skill changes. But idk if I'm right for sure, my memory's kinda foggy since I just woke up. xD --72.220.205.44 16:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ES and unlinked skills end MoM. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

This is definitely going to get re-nerfed. GW-Soja 11:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Doubtable. Izzy is a moron. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  13:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Honestly I don't see why you'd want to use this skill. Ok it sets all elemental attributes to 12 allowing you to use those "hot" insignia giving +20 armor, but there aren't really many skills I'd want to combine except perhaps Chilling Winds. For all cross-elemental combo's you could as well go something like 12 in one element, 8 in the other and 10 in energy storage cuz mostly those 4 (or actually 3) attribute points don't matter much. The 2 energy regen aint bad either, but aint that good also - there are better skills. Adding the fact that it ends on anything other than elemental magic and the fact that it's a strippable enchantment I think it won't really be used in PvP nor in PvE 62.194.247.7 22:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * MoM -> Ward of Weakness -> Chilling Winds -> Glowstone -> Deep Freeze -> Glowing Ice -> Teinai's Heat -> Searing Heat Probably not that great, but it's a fun idea.--GerrOh!    01:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

hmm possibilities on a different profession? as the attributes would be capped at 12 anyway and the +2 regen would help. ME fast casting or N for lots of spell spamming? = P
 * edit*i'm probably going to get slapped by the obvious stick for that one..
 * /slap :P Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 22:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Signet of illusions DESTROYS this skill. Allows for fast casting, 16 attributes, USE SPELLS FROM ANYTHING, and cant be removed 70.22.197.130 02:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you get DShotted/Diversioned when using SoI you're screwed. --Shadowcrest  02:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 16 if you are a primary Mesmer, but needs for you to stop 2 seconds to cast it every 2 or 3 spells. Overall, this is probably better for elementalists (who, guess what, this skill is designed for!) And you're just as screwed if MoM gets d-shotted when you're relying on it.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  02:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a lower chance of being d-shotted if you're casting every 40 seconds rather than every 10. --Shadowcrest  02:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And when it only takes 1 second to activate instead of 2. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:24, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Diversion/d-shot packs less of a punch on a SoI because of a shorter recharge, and the activation time is somewhat equalized by virtue of Fast Casting. The point is moot though, because both builds, if relying entirely on MoM or SoI, are weak in the same ways, although it can be argued that SoI is more resistant because of a naturally slower recharge time and somewhat harder to predict because it's hard to see when the signet wore off without being vigilant. &mdash; Powersurge360  03:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But it's easier to do to a SoI since it's used approximately 4x as much (and that was at 10 ES, I took it easy on them :P ). And interrupters should be vigilant :P
 * This skill's weakness is enchantment removal, not being diverted though. --Shadowcrest  03:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Best use?

 * use on a low level ele that only has about 5 points he can dump in e-storage.--98.192.129.139
 * You'd probably have to get the skill with an Elite Tome, because the first place you can unlock it is the Consulate Docks Mission, when you're usually already about level 16-20. If you do spend the money on a tome, however, you'll be strongest level 4 elementalist in the game! lol ــѕт.  мıкε  15:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * u can get ferried to consulte docks 86.155.95.252 10:52, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think you'd be able to do the mission, though, without completing The Time is Nigh. ــѕт.  мıкε  13:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * the idea was a leet tome.--98.162.186.62 05:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That was my first comment. XD I probably wouldn't spend 7-10K just to get an Elite I could cap within a day or two, though. ــѕт.  мıкε  13:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggested Improvement
Why not changing Description to ''All your elemental attributes under 12 become 12 and you gain 0... 2 energy regeneration. Master of Magic ends when you use a non-elemental skill.'' Could be a good improvement that would make this a viable elite cuz as it is now... you have 103 attribute pts that are always unused. You can't put attribute pts in Elemental Attibutes because they will be reseted to 12 when you use Master of Magic and you can't put in non-elemental since Master of Magic will end. So you can basicly only maximize your energy storage... Big Bow 06:28, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it really needs changing, or else it might be seen as imbalanced. Besides, your other attributes aren't necessarily 'useless', since if MoM gets interrupted or removed, you need attributes in some other lines to not be totally helpless. I usually have 6 in all my other attributes, so that if it gets removed my effectiveness is basically halved, but I can use the same combinations. Captain Yimuru 20:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Or you could go E/P and a Command Shield. Prismatic insig and you're a semi-tank, yay. Make Haste and song of Concentration and you're fit for HA ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Glyph of Elemental Power
Given the update just now, this skill now stacks with glyph of elemental power (just tested, hooray!). Maybe someone wants to update the article to reflect this. 87.194.40.167 01:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Changed, but you could have done it yourself.--BeeD 09:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Awesome update. This skill just got a million times better. 90.198.245.81 15:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Question
So... if you have a 15 in Fire Magic, will this skill bring it down to 12, or leave it alone?-- (Talk) (Contr.) 00:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it will bring it down-Rabus 00:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Gay.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Just get an Estorage headpiece and runes-Rabus 00:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is why you don't strip MoM from Kournan Scribes in Hard Mode. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Is this skill useless or not?
I just can't seem to figure this out. This skill is an elite enchantment that gives 12 all elemental attributes and +0..2 e-regen. Therefore this skill is - of course - best used when using multiple attributes. However, if you'd use only two attributes, you could also go for a 12/12 split, not rely on the enchantment ánd free up your elite slot. Therefore my conclusion is that this skill becomes usefull in one of the following cases:
 * 1. This skill is "very" useful if three or four of the four elemental attributes are being used.
 * 2. This skill is useful if two or more elemental attributes are being used and energy storage is important, for instance because of e-management with "glowing" skills.
 * 3. This skill may be useful if you use at least one elemental attribute and want to invest heavily in an attribute of a secondary profession.

Some reasons not to use this skill include:
 * 4. It's an elite skill, meaning it will take your elite slot - there may be better options.
 * 5. It's an enchantment spell, meaning it can be stripped, making the user of elemental skills useless.
 * 6. All elemental attributes are set to 12 ánd non-elemental skills can't be used, meaning you are left with a lot of unused attribute points.
 * 7. It ends on any non-elemental skill.

So basically this skill allows for a lot of unused attributes - or in other words an effective build with few attribute points - with the drawback of becoming useless when it's removed. I can see why this is useful for characters of lvl 5-15, but as a level 20 I just don't really see it. -If we look at points 1., Personally I think air is not useful when you can blind with fire+water. Spiking can be done with any of the other attributes if needed, and for cracked armor I'd refer to Curses. Earth aint very useful either except for the wards. Therefore I find it hard to believe you'd ever need three elemental attributes at 12 while having disadvantages 4.-7.. -As for 2., apart from the "glowing" skills and GoLE there is no way you'd "need" e-storage. Besides if e-management is bad with ~8 e-storage, it will probably also be bad with ~14 e-storage. On top of that, you could also bring a different elite if you'd need e-management that badly. -Looking at 3., I can't think of any reason you'd want to invest heavily in a secondary attribute. Especially not when we have disadvantage 7. The only reason I can think of is for maintained enchantments or for the case MoM is stripped in which case we have a circle :P So, now 1.-3. are not really applicable anymore, I can't really see any use for this skill. So now my question is: IS this skill useless or not? 62.194.24.118 15:08, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Like you said it is useful before you hit level 20. It can also be put to interesting use if you can grab it as a Mesmer (Inspired/Revealed Enchant, Arcane Mimicry, etc) while using Signet of Illusions. But mostly, yes, there are so few practical uses for 3-4 elements that this isn't great general skill. Most times I ever use it is, for example, on new Elementalist hero till they get to L20. Or if I only want to use a few special skills. Eg Maelstrom, Earthquake, Meteor Shower, Chilling Winds + Ice Prison. In those case, taking a 12-12 split or going single attribute wouldn't work as well since you are speccing to other attribute for just one skill. I herd that this also sees some use in PvP for utility eles, but not sure how. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:21, 9 November 2008 (UTC)