User talk:Entropy/GW RTS

I thought about the abilities or upgrades and thought of some of my own:
 * U-238 shells(a.k.a Uranium Shells) -> Weapon switching!
 * Vehicle Plating -> 15k armor/insignias
 * Cloaking -> Shadow Arts
 * Speed movement upgrades -> Stances/Windborne Speed
 * Sight upgrades -> Asura Spectacles
 * Recall ->....Recall
 * Stasis Field -> Iron Mist
 * Energy upgrades -> Radiant Armor
 * Damage Upgrades ->Race's equivalent of 5-15 platinum weapons. If they don't have one, can be generically called "stolen or cosair 15k weapons"
 * Disruption Web -> Web of Disruption, Snaring Webs, Deep Freeze
 * Mind Control -> Unyielding Aura, looted equipment
 * Thats all I can think of right now. Damn power surge prevented me from posting this around an hour ago. Flechette 07:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, defensive matrix would be more similar to Life Sheath --Gimmethegepgun 10:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You can still take damage under Defensive Matrix, and it ends based on time rather than amount of life lost. Tbh it's more like Life Barrier. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought that if you pounded it enough it would end, but yeah I remember it's a percentage thing or something --Gimmethegepgun 00:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Siege Tank-> siege turtles?
 * death nova minion-> sucidial terran (i forget name)--Ryudo 00:11, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Infested Terran. Also, I'd think more along the lines of a Hopping Vampire --Gimmethegepgun 00:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What would protoss shields be? Prot spirit or on the lines of SoA? Flechette 00:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm not really like any of those...actually reminds me more of life sheath, but thats already in use...shielding hands maybe?--Ryudo 00:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Prot spirit seems to be good as it reduces damage by a certain precentage. If it was shielding hands, something like a seige turtle attack would be reduce by like 15 or something and take the rest damage, instantly killing the object with shielding. Maybe guardian would be good, it mitigrates damage but can damage still occur, and it does it more straightforward plus it sounds suitable. Flechette 00:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Protoss shields arent really damage reduction, more like another hp bar...kinda like life sheath, lmfao. once the shield is down, then the hp goes down. Once life sheath is down, then your hp goes down.--Ryudo 00:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'd say EMP Pulse (is that what it's called?) would be more like a non-hex version of Air of Disenchantment, or maybe Mirror. It fries all the useful stuff on them (Matrix, shields (life sheath), etc.) --Gimmethegepgun 01:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Can't Irradiate penetrate the shield? Flechette 01:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Irradiate would be life stealing I suppose...or maybe hp degen.--Ryudo 01:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Protoss shields are Life Sheath. They are like Health and end when enough damage is taken. It can be recharged (Shield Battery) or over time. Shielding Hands...hmm...well, Defensive Matrix is like an uber Shielding Hands. Defensive Matrix does not protect from Plague or Irradiate, since you still take damage, but it is reduced to very low levels. EMP Shockwave thing is like Shatter Storm...or maybe Chilblains. (T/C) 02:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think Defensive Matrix like adds armor to them or something, and the armor in SC can't reduce damage below 0.5 damage if I remember correctly, so I'd say it's more like a targetted Turtle Shell --Gimmethegepgun 00:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, Call of Protection works. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Defensive matrix gives an additional 250 health that absorbs most of the damage the target takes. It ends if the 250 health has been 'used up', but it has a set duration of 60 seconds. So it really is like an upgraded version of Life Sheath. If you doubt me, check it here . (wow, never thought i'dd be discussing things about starcraft on the gw wiki, lol)--El Nazgir 08:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Conversions
Marines -> Warriors Warriors are the bread and butter of melee, and don't have range. I'm pretty sure that these guys would be Rangers (or at least crappy ones).

Firebats -> Elementalist Eles aren't meant to be melee, and Warriors do deal high damage. Should be Warriors.

Ghost -> Ebon Vanguard Ebon Vanguard consist of practically every profession. With the skills used by ghosts (cloak, lockdown, nuke strike), I'm pretty sure these guys are a cross between Rangers and Assassins. I'd go with Assassin if it had to come down to one choice.

Goliath -> Stone Summit Beastmaster Goliaths have ranged attacks, and are better against flying units. I have no idea what the conversion should be, but I'm not liking beastmaster.

Dropship No clue wtf it would be.

Nuclear Strike Should be the old school Siege Attack by Siege Wurms. Meteor Shower if you really want it.

EMP Shockwave should be Shatter Storm! How the heck could it be Energy Surge?

everything else looks good, though I'm a bit iffy on Vulture -> Ranger (but can't think of anything else). --Kale Ironfist 01:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Firebat = Star Burst and other PBAoE Ele; Ghost = Ebon Vanguard because they're, you know, Special Ops and Secret Agent and all that. Make it Vael. Goliath...ehh...they are a "Heavy Armor" unit, yet have ranged attacks. Paragons? Siege Attack < Junundu Siege in terms of damage. Although Devourer Siege is cooler. EMP Shockwave is Shatter Storm, or at least that's what I meant to write. >.> Vulture = Ranger because of Traps (Spider Mines) and slow ranged attacks with meh damage. But, they're fast and good for hit-and-run. So, Ranger. (T/C) 01:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So obviously Ghosts should be Ebon Vanguard (Ranger/Assassin). They can't just be Ebon Vanguard, since they consist of everything. I don't like Firebat being the ele with pbaoe. It so obviously should be a Starburst Warrior!! Now THAT is win. --Kale Ironfist 01:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol! No, really, it should be Vael. Star Burst War? Well that makes the Firebat seem like a piece of crap doesn't it? At least from GW terms. In StarCraft, the Firebat is most effective at taking out large clumps of weaker units like Zergling and Zealots, and completely inefficient versus higher armor targets. That seems to fit best with the PBAoE Fire Ele...On the other hand, the Firebat has a +1 armor over the Marine and more HP. And, Stim Paks help them too...Hm. Actually I have an idea. They are the Dervish with a Scythe. Slightly better unconditional armor than a Ranger (Wind Walker insignia), does AoE, mostly useful against clumped groups, etc. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Frenzy Derv!! Besides, Vael is only one, and you can have many Ghosts. Ultralisks should be Destroyer of Bones :p. --Kale Ironfist 01:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Vael resurrects permanently for no DP and he shows up as the Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support! Anyway - Ultralisk has teh highest Armor of any single unit, at Rank 5. This makes them the Defy Pain Warriors, melee masters who take a huge beating and deal consistent damage. Fast, too, with their movement speed upgrade, aka. Enraging Charge or something. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Butbut, youu said Zerg should be teh evil races! (misspellings intentional) Besides, I don't recall any Defy Pain Warriors except for that one boss, and his offensive capabilities suck. --Kale Ironfist 01:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * White Mantle anyone? It's taking slight artistic license, but give a White Mantle Justiciar Defy Pain, and that works. Ultralisk has moderate offensive power, but because of unit crowding and attack speed the Zergling is even more pressure. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Justicar IWAY ftl. Flechette 04:51, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * IWAY is probably their most dangerous skill. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Warcraft 3
Would be a better game to mod from, more features and already has a fantasy theme. My $.02 --Blue.rellik 02:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never played, so can't really do that. Sorry :( Although, I did hear they had exploding pandas that say, "I bring you Panda-monium!" or some such crap. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You never played WC3? Sure it's got nothing on Starcraft but it was still a solid game. And to think I wanted to marry you, for shame Entropy! For shame! --Blue.rellik 02:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, there is only so many hours in your life to play games >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I should take a photo of Blue disagreeing the use of SC for our GW RTS. SC IS a fantasy theme, it's a fantasy theme made up of sci-fi creatures and technologies. Flechette 04:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you just say Starcraft is a fantasy game? Please tell me you did not say that --Blue.rellik 06:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fantasy genre =/= fantasy definition. --Kale Ironfist 06:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So we're playing the anal game here? You people know what I meant --Blue.rellik 06:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm agreeing with you here... --Kale Ironfist 06:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I just live here... >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Squatters rights. What's ours is ours and what's yours is ours too :p. --Kale Ironfist 06:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My bad then Kale. And sorry Entropy, I'll stop the spamming --Blue.rellik 06:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Warriors
Just like what Imperial Guard (well duh) Guardsmen say: "Tanks! Where the hell are the tanks?" Flechette 06:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Frenzy is a great IAS for Rangers, too. They aren't generally the targets of attacks and the Energy cost for them is not much. Also, we made Warriors into Ultralisks. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no standard tanks still. Ultralisks...meh, I think SS herders would be better choice, they are tough (level 24, warriors), they do consistant damage, are very annoying (DBS), have Rush which is a movement enhancer and tower their fellow beings. But since you guys have seemingly finalized your choices, it is a mere passing thought. Flechette 06:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh? This isn't even done yet, it is like 1% started and still at Drawingboard phase. Herders are a good idea, though they don't deal much damage really. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They do cause alot damage, to your brain and mind mostly when they giant stomp you one after another in large groups. I do not mean they (herders) do large amounts of damage, they are both relatively frustrating but constantly do the damage that they can deal. Anyway, whenI mean finalize, I mean the choices you guys talk about a specific idea, unit ect. Flechette 07:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well yeah, when you get large groups they are frustrating. However, compare to the role of the Ultralisk in SC - do you generate massive krewe for mobbing like you would the Zergling? No, they are too big and too expensive...A lone Herder or two is nothing really, a lone Ultralisk or two is still a threat to be considered. Actually, even in places like Snake Dance where you get about 5 Herders + Dolyak Master, they are not much painful...meh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Races
I kinda agree on the terrans (but I agree with Kale, the Ghost should be some sort of R/A), but zerg seem more like Afflicted (but without the Afflicted Soul Explosion) and Torment Demons to me (you know, being all organic freaky and stuff). The afflicted can be the weaker units like zerglings (assasins seem fine) and hydralisks. A queen seems like a hybrid of a Shadow of Fear and an Afflicted Necromancer. Then torment demons seem good for strong roles, like the Blade of Corruption for an Ultralisk, and a Herald of Nightmares as Defiler. Mutalisks seem like a powered down version of the Arm of Insanity, having multiple targets but rather low damage. Lurker is something like a mobile version of the Torment Claw, the guardian as a Rain of Terror and the devourer as a normal Arm of Insanity (hits multiple targets too). Maybe you can switch the Guardian and Devourer, seeing as the Devourer slows down unit's attack speed.

Protos are something like Mursaat and/or Margonite (although I agree that asura are perfectly being able to fulfill this role too), being strange mysterious psychic beings. Zealots can perfectly be Jade Armors or Margonite Executioners, being rather tough and having rather high damage. A Margonite Bowmaster as a dragoon seems fine. High templar should be Necromancer or Mesmer from either races (or maybe Elementalist with something of a lightning AoE?), and dark templar Assasin from margonite (I know they don't have a normal sin, but they do have 1 sin boss: Chimor the Lightblooded). A reaver is long range AoE nuker. Too bad the margonites or mursaat have fire nukers, Fireball would be perfect for scarabs, meh. Scout could be Jade Bow and Corsair a Margonite Ascendant. Arbiter is rather hard, maybe a Margonite Patriarch or something? Carrier is even harder to decide, maybe some sort of MM. The normal Archon can be a Margonite Reaper, damaging several targets at once and still be rather tough (and emping them, making them lose enchantments, makes them near useless), and the Dark Archon is no doubt a Mesmer of some sort. --El Nazgir 09:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your ideas, I haven't thought about it too deeply (half-started projects ftw) but that sounds good. I would disagree on Margonite Executioners, though - in my experience they are the weakest and least threatening of all Margonite units. Certainly not Zealot material. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:46, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right about the Executioners, but then again, Jade aren't exactly threatening either, right? But then what should the zealouts be? they just seemed the most qualified for that role.--El Nazgir 10:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Kournans? Well equipped but still can go down. Flechette 10:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm... they're even weaker than Margonites, and they aren't exactly 'mysterous' or 'psychic'. Now I haven't played far enough in factions to know myself (I know, I know... I should), but is there any Shiro'ken suitable for being a zealot? I'd sooner see them as mystic weird guys as the kournans.--El Nazgir 12:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Shiroken are endgame monsters and are level 24-28, however, kournans fits in that they are relatively early in nightfall, and are mediocre in resilence, much like zealots as they can both go down just as easily as each other but can take a reasonable beating. Flechette 12:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but zealots are still very powerfull compared to other begin-units, seeing it has 100 health and 60 shield compared to marines with only 40 health, and 16 base damage (ok, melee, but still) compared to 6 with about the same rate of fire. IMO, they perfectly fit as lvl 24 enemies, as they're rather tough and later in the game they still pose a problem (*cough*zealot-rush*cough*). And besides, you missed my point of the mystic being thing, which Kournans obviously aren't.--El Nazgir 18:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I actually find Marines (Stim Paks) and Zerglings (Adrenal Glands) to be much, much more dangerous than the Zealot (Leg Enhancement). Granted, right at the start when you have no upgrades, the Zealot is much more survivable. However, they are rather expensive to build in terms of resources per unit...their lack of attack against airborne is also a disappointment compared to the Marine. Actually, for Protoss, the Dragoon as a whole is disappointing. Same stats as the Zealot, slow attack speed, meh DPS, large size...Hydralisk is bettar, Goliath (for that size) is miles better. Oh, and Zealot rush fails against Terrans (Firebat, Siege Tank cut through like butter) :)
 * Anyway the Shiroken Warriors are pretty cool and I'd love to see them as Zealots. They aren't huge damage-dealers but are fairly resilient. And they look like Mursaat. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

My two cents
Entropy, this is briliant idea. However, I have a couple of things to say: First off, don't base this on starcraft. While it is an awesome game, it only has 3 races in it, and if you cram every aspect of GW into those 3 races, well, it's gunna be cramped. My suggestion is, Either base it on a wide-specied game (i'm thinking star trek armada2) or just make a unique game? IMO that sounds better, becouse GW has certain mechanics taht will be hard to mimic. For example, how are you going to represent a MM? or a 55?

MY suggestion:

Humans (or The alliance of good with norn, dwarves etc. they are familiar in the humanod aspect.[Like the humans of warcraft, they are a mix of races]?) Alesia for the 'big' unit!

Asura. They need their own race with golems, summons etc. TPS GOLEM can be the 'big' unit.

Charr. With their devourers and effigies.

Mursaat. They got huuge forts with ether seals! two unit types right there. the ultra unit thingy can be Willa the unpleasant.

Margonites. With abbadon, duh. they can have special invic powers orrr the ability to call forth spikes from underground?

Something like.. Legion of the flame? (destroyers and titans)Tragdor as the big unit.

The rest of the critters can be the critters or sumting. I dunno. just my two cents.
 * MM = carrier, duh. Note that pretty much all of the suggestions here are similar to what units do in SC, but nowhere near exactly. Carrier's a very similar to MMs in that the carrier (or mm) is useless without the drones (or minions), just their method of summoning them is different --Gimmethegepgun 23:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * NOt a Fifty five? :P Anyway, yeah, carriers are similar to MMs, but When the 'protoss' race is consisted of Human MMs, Shiroken zealots, Dragon(?) scararabs, or heck, even pinesouls for dragoons it will be a bit crazy no? I thought the aim was to create a game with *gasp!* a respectable lore.
 * 55 is like two Medics with Defensive Matrix on...but yeah this is getting kind of off topic from the original goal. I probably should not base it on anything at all and rather make it a unique RPS with just some elements of others. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * try age of empires, while it doesnt have the same thingies, theres a plethora (wow, havent used that in a while) of units. such as jannisaries (archers with swords), dopplesoldners (dervishes), longbowmen (self explanitory). theres also the element of cavalry (idk what though), and cannons (elementalists :P). this is actually alpha fireborn from pvx wiki (i just dont wanna make an acount hear (lazy). and thats a lot of 'prithees 98.196.45.234 03:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually you should do it in WC3. You can edit all models, spells and such for anything. It would be incredibly easy to do.

Tengu
Make sure to give everyone representing the 'Toss Tengu weapons! (and Life Sheath) --Gimmethegepgun 02:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)