User talk:Tennessee Ernie Ford/Archive 04

Style overhaul
There's an argument to be made about considering a style overhaul, but you won't catch me making it anytime soon. &mdash; if, hypothetically, you were to make this argument (which I understand you are not), roughly how would it go? -- ◄mendel► 09:30, October 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * First, I have to stop lmao. That's an admirably sneaky way of teasing out conversation from recalcitrant ppls.


 * Then, hypothetically, I might cleverly point out how much easier GWW has become recently in terms of finding info on the page, general navigation, presenting like data in an alike way, etc. And that those ease-of-use improvements have come in part due to style changes. GWiki has its own style, but it appears rooted in its origins (data >>>> form) rather than fit for its current purpose. Worse, the style hasn't been logically extended throughout: navbars sometimes, not others. Info boxes without (much) info. Awkwardly split pages. On longer articles, the most needed/used info is sometimes awkwardly placed.


 * So, theoretically, I imagine that I might be able to point out that we might want to grow from pretty good to good into consistently very good to excellent.


 * You might ask me why didn't I want to get into a style discussion sooner rather than later. Did I wish to avoid volunteering for significant work (and bot building/testing)? Did I want to avoid a style overhaul convention (which can be tediously dull)? Did I want to avoid implicit criticism of the loyal and more talented wikians who were here before me? Well, yes, all of above.


 * More importantly, I have been weighing in my mind whether there's a more fundamental shift that GWiki should consider and whether, with whom, and where to discuss it. Over the last few months, my watched-list has gone from active to quiet. Recent activity is more often measured in hours than minutes. Heck, the number of vandal-edits has dropped dramatically since I joined. Notably, (some) previously frequent contributors have moved attention from here to there.


 * I don't think we're asymptotically approaching the point where there's nothing much to edit (plenty of stubs, out-of-date guides, missing guides, old styles in use, ...). Significantly, this wiki still seems to be getting a lot of traffic (a recent estimate suggested it might still be getting 2x as much search-engine directed visitors as GWW).


 * So, with lots of traffic and relatively fewer contributions, what's the best use of time for GWikians? I don't have an answer, theoretically or otherwise. I'm convinced that there are things that GWiki does much better than GWW, but I have trouble articulating what exactly those might be. I am even more convinced that GWiki fills a critical function for players, but, again: what exactly is that?


 * So, before re-fitting this wiki better towards its purpose, I'd like to consider the purpose it does serve. My current brain dump about GWiki's advantages or unique place in the GW universe include that GWiki...
 * tends to embrace new concepts/approaches more quickly than GWW.
 * tends to support new contributors better.
 * does not seem to demand or assume advanced skills, titles, or abilities in offering advice.
 * is more likely to be able to offer something that's missing than either PvX or GWW (e.g. the Nick farming guide here that doesn't assume leetness of toons nor of players).


 * &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:35, October 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hah, now I see what's on your mind, and I look forward to the day when you might be prepared to make such an argument. :) What we seem to lack is a user interface designer (sometimes called information architect) who structures the presentation (and workings) of the wiki more along the actual needs of its users. It's a lot of work.
 * Another point is that we are the wiki with sister wikis in almost every Guild Wars language, and if we were in control of our skin, we'd have interlanguage links to all of them. As it is, we could probably use some custom Javascript in the meantime.
 * And I ought to actually go and look at gww. -- ◄mendel► 01:36, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * re: looking at GWW: yes. Take a look at any trophy, any title, any party item, and any holiday (for starters, anyhow). And, now that I've brought up the daily activity slow-down here, do you have any thoughts on that?


 * re: UI Designers &amp; info architects: I know good ones from bad ones, but I'm not one myself. I get the principles and can help a team avoid catastrophe; I can recognize good design-for-purpose. I'm not able to go much more beyond that.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:44, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

encouraging comment
I see what you tried [ there] and [ there], but [ this] and [ this] actually worked well (or should). -- ◄mendel► 11:12, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks &mdash; the differences between theory and practice of taking GW:AGF to a emoboldened extreme.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:49, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem with the individual responses is that I actually need to have a somewhat accurate impression of the person I am replying to - when I'm doing this, AGF isn't another mechanic to do things, it means I actually get a little bit interested in the person (well, in the case of Vipermagi, I already am ;-) and adress myself to my impression of them; and if that's off, so's my response. --12:31, October 16, 2009 (UTC) &mdash; This almost signed&trade; post was made by Mendel on the date/time indicated, who apparently was too distracted to notice the number of ~ in his sig.
 * Would I get in trouble for copy / pasting that into my preferences, calling myself A F K When Needed and linking to myself instead of to you? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:46, October 16, 2009 (UTC) Pure epic...
 * It's too long for a signature, though I agree TEF's edit is win (thank you!). -- ◄mendel► 21:57, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Ernie
Hai. A F K When Needed 17:10, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * TEF doesn't know anyone who responds to, "Ernie." Do you?  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:51, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * I do. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 10:51, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know you.
So hi.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 02:01, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * And hello yourself!  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:22, October 16, 2009 (UTC)