User talk:Gravewit

Epoch to 08/25/2006

8/26/2006 to 11/19/2006

See user page.

:P
Sorry to sully your shiney freshly cleaned user page with a complaint but can you take out the 'F' word on your user page? There's a strong anti swearing ideal held by a lot of us (you can do a search for a swear word, you won't find many) and it makes hanging out here more pleasant than most forums. So you might have screwed up, stuffed up, mucked up, buggered up or even ****ed up, but you didn't F-up! --Xasxas256 20:40, 19 November 2006 (CST)


 * I... can't do that. I'm a grown-up. I use grown up words. I didn't bugger up at all. There's only one way to convey what happened, and it is with the prodigious use of the most versatile word in the english language. It's not directed at anyone, it's not aimed at causing a problem with anyone. It is just a word, and one that just so happens to be perfect for the circumstances. Gravewit 14:05, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well I find that disappointing, basically everybody else on the site has decided that we're not going to use foul language because it makes it is unpleasant, regardless as to whom or what it's directed at. I've worked at dozens of different places unloading shipping containers where you'll find some pretty rough language but having more recently been working in numerous schools, I'd have to say the place that I hear the most swearing is the school playground. "Adult" language has nothing to do with being older, it's frowned upon by many of the editors here because swearing never helps an argument. Hey I'm not opposed to swearing, when I'm with mates, sure, no worries and let's be honest, swearing is apparently Australia's greatest selling point! But my experience is that our "keep the language clean" informal policy works well, I find that the forums with the most swearing are invariably the ones that are the most distasteful communities to be a part of, with constant fighting and personal attacks.


 * I've heard that audio clip listing all the great ways the F word can be used but that's rubbish that it's the only way to describe what happened. I don't hear any swearing at my current office job because there's a time and place, we're trying to create a wiki as professionally as possibly here. It's your call of course but it looks bad to me when the user page of the head honcho drops the F word. Why can't you just go back to hating dogs! --Xasxas256 18:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Are you serious? You want to enforce some sort of policy on a person's language on their own talk page? That is bullshit. Yep, I could have used "ludicrous" in place of "bullshit", but it wouldn't have quite the same effect would it? Strong language exists for a reason: to express oneself strongly. You may choose to use different words, but you shouldn't be trying to tell others what words they can use. -- James Sumners 22:20, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * There's no policy to enforce, it's an informal understanding amoungst users. It was but mearly a suggestion and an explanation of my views, if Gravewit decides to ignore it that's fine. The GuildWiki is not a moderated forum, not language wise anyway, nobody will remove posts talk/discussion page posts because of language but foul language drags the place down in my opinion. Your use of the word "bullshit" does your argument no favours, even when used as an example. Again that's just my view. --Xasxas256 22:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Groundbreaking changes on Gamewikis (Meta!), and all you care about is the use of "fuck"? Sorry, but all I can say here is: "Only in America!" Let's ignore the real issues; as long as we're political correct we're safe. Nobody cares (or should I say: gives a fuck?) what the lyrics of a song actually say, they can be all controversial and offensive if you read between the lines, as long as it isn't said openly nobody cares. But woe if somebody uses a no-no-word, then all hell breaks loose! When I watch American TV (MTV etc.) I find all the BEEEEEPs nothing but ridiculous. But they don't censor songs like U + Ur Hand, which is VERY explicit, if you understand what the lyrics are about. But the words "wank" or "jerk/jack off" don't appear in the lyrics, so everything is fine and dandy. /me shakes head. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:29, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not entirely sure what you're saying Tetris but honestly I just though it was a little distasteful having the F word on Gravewit's page...that's it. As for the massive changes...I just want things to work, you guys can argue who "owns" the GuildWiki, the legalities of mirrors, greater transperancy on the money side, whatever, me, I've already given my thoughts on the performance of the GuildWiki and I'm just happy it's all working again.


 * So that's fine, go nuts, laugh all you want. I'm just disappointed that a long time servant like Xeeron leaves and just two, just two of us bother to say goodbye to him. So laugh it up, swear all you want, Xeeron isn't one of the people involved in the original wikis coming together. He's just a contributor, let him go. You've just lost one long time user and you might just be about to lose another, who cares, plenty more where they came from isn't there? --Xasxas256 03:41, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Huh? What does Xeeron leaving have to do with the use of the F word? Things like Xeeron leaving is what I had in mind when I talked about "the real issues" that we should talk about. To me, the use of a swearword is total peanuts compared to that. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:56, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I can appreciate Xasxas' point. I personally don't swear very often. Equally, though, neither do I intentionally avoid swear words, nor do I know of any informal policy to avoid swearing in talk pages. But I would appreciate being pointed to any examples!


 * Honestly, Tetris, I don't think your contribution above was particularly sympathetic. For a start, what the hell do you mean by "Only in America!"? You know Xasxas is Australian, right? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that Gravewit try to refrain from swearing in what is fairly close to an official statement on the recent server situation. While I wouldn't have bothered myself I don't think that Xasxas should be chastised for doing so.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 07:11, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Xasxas isn't American?? Damn, there goes my stereotype! ;) Nah, seriously, I did know it, somewhere deep inside, but I forgot until Fryen pointed it out to me. Xasxas hit a sore spot in me, and my words came out harsher than they should have, and I apologize for that. However, I still think the priorities are a little off when swearwords are the first and so far only thing that is commented on in message that hopefully marks a milestone for this wiki. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not sure why it's my fault that nobody else has said anything regarding the server/meta prior to my comment. Besides, before to the new server went in I had my say and afterward I gave thanks. Do I have to wait for someone to comment on the servers/meta before I'm allowed to comment on my "trivial" matter? I'm still sad to see Xeeron leave, which happened while you guys were arguing about who owns the wiki, lack of accountability, fiscal side, mirrors, server performance etc. I mean sure Xeeron left because of those very things but I feel very much like an outsider when you guys start talking about the "original" wiki members etc. Having good servers is important, absolutely, but having good contributors is just as important too, you need both. Amoungst all the chest beating about getting server access, database dumps etc. I felt that a valuable member was slipping through the cracks, you can replace a server but you can't replace someone like Xeeron.


 * Finally how on earth did you think I'm a Yank! I didn't live in the country for nothing, I use the word "mate" all the time! Coupled with copious "no worries", how could you forget! I don't get to chat with you that much Tetris, probably due to the time zone differences, your posts have probably been already replied to in many cases, hence I rarely directly reply to you (and vice versa). Well it's been an interesting night, are we cool now? If so then cheers big ears ;) --Xasxas256 08:25, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * G'day and no worries to you too, mate! I do know that you're Australian, really. How could I not know? You're one of the few people who edit in the time frame when the Americans have already gone to bed, and the Europeans aren't awake yet, so when I get online I see your name in the recent changes a lot. I seem to recall from some talk that you're from Melbourne, or am I getting you mixed up with some other aussie? Did I mention that I've been to Australia? Infact I'm wearing a tie right now that I bought in Sidney! :)
 * I, too, am sad that Xeeron went /afw, but as far as I understood him he didn't "leave". He just stopped contributing temporarily, but made clear that would return when things have improved. Based on recent improvements I'm confident that he'll be back soon. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * This whole thing seems a bit over the top to me. Anyway, the reason why I didn't post on Xeerons talk page was that he clearly stated he didn't want to make a big thing about his vacation/leaving. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:13, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Re:Note
Gravewit, I just wanted to let you know that much of my faith in you has been restored by the fact that you acknowledged that things have been "mishandled" in the past. I hope it doesn't sound patronizing when I say that the sole fact that you openly and clearly admit a mistake has doubled my respect for you. It's something that many people would never do, especially when "under fire". I see it as a sign of strength, not weakness. This was the first - and most important - step in the right direction. Starting the Meta was the second step, and I trust that more steps will follow to ensure that things improve in future, towards more transparency and democracy on Gamewikis. In a spirit like this I'm confident that GuildWiki and Gamewikis will continue to prosper. -- 07:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Just what Tertis said. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:13, 21 November 2006 (CST)