User:Mendel/Talk Archive 7

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These guys!
180px|left-- ◄mendel► 17:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

No fucking way.
I won't believe it until I hear in vent. (T/C) 09:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Believe it. I'm willing to give a vent concert, no problem. -- ◄mendel► 11:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Moar userboxes
--> Suicidal Tendencie 17:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The contrast [[Image:Glowing Gaze.jpg]] it burns my eyes!!!!!! Random Time  18:04, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * NSFE: Not Safe for Epileptics. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:59, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Just wait - now he'll make a flashing one. Jink  19:20, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the idea :D
 * btw, he's Ishy, so are you Jinkie? --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I'm Jink. "Ishy" is short for Dr Ishmael.  Jinkie... isn't short.  Jink  20:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer Kink- *ahem* Jinkie to Jink tbh, more catchie with the "ie" bit at the end :-) --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 22:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC) Not trying anything here, the K bit was a real typo I thought I'd include for the lolz
 * Sorry dude. I prefer Jink, will only answer to Jink, and I hope you'll respect that. :)  Jink  02:17, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've not figured out yet whether you're Japanese or good at dodging. -- ◄mendel► 02:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * My secrets are only for me to know (and Ishy, but he's special). :D Jink  03:03, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I see that we've brought the conversation away from the userbox =/ And I'll respect whatever you want Jink, but, by your logic, Ishy can request people call him Ish. Or Ish-Ish, if he should so desire. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 16:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, he could. Your point?  Jink  16:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ...that is all... --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 17:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Symbolic Kick (Placeholder) - Autocat with Location InfoBox
Here's the placeholder for the symbolic kick/reminder to setup some autocat with the location infobox. I'll update the title of this section if I really think you need the cymbals. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 06:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Nudge... :-)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the nudge. Unfortunately, teh machine that has AWB on it suffered a driver problem and is currently off the Internet. -- ◄mendel► 17:09, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Postcard
The first person to send me a postcard or letter (postmark counts) will get their own userbox on my page (see that for my address). There'll be a collective userbox (or better) for those who aren't first. -- ◄mendel► 11:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * New! The Add a Section link partially blocks any links on the last line (I was trying to click your username, had to click the top ~4px for it to work >.>" ) EDIT: Oddly, my contribs link is working... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's broken anyway because for me, it is smack dab in the middle of the banner ad. Sigh. I hate Wikia. -- ◄mendel► 17:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm close to giving up, I might make a userbox that says "nobody sends me postcards but my mom". -- ◄mendel► 23:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I can send you one when I get home, be patient. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Your comment vs. my virgin talk page
Hi! Thank you for going out of your way to comment on my feeble attempt to create a QR. x]

Basically the current Assassin attack chain quick reference is a bit of a disjointed mess and formatted completely differently from every other QR. I wanted to improve and standardize it. But, the more I think about it, the more I realize how difficult it is to create a truly usable QR for Sass chains (for reasons I'll resist detailing). So, I'm simmering on the concept before I try to bug someone into making it for me.

While we're on the general topic... why does GuildWiki structure its sortable QR tables (example) with Cost, Activation, and Recharge all lumped under one "Stats" category? It seems more intuitive to be able to sort by, for example, Energy cost. In fact... GuildWiki's skill lists are kinda sort-unfriendly in general. Is that a deliberate decision?

Actually... the more I think about stuff like this, the more ideas I get, which leads to more questions, which means... I usually should stop right about now. x] Take care! -- AudreyChandler 07:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Afraid of brainstorming? I consider that a good thing! -- ◄mendel► 08:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Archiving
Greetings, my friend. If I may call you that and consider you as such. I was wondering if you archive merely in accordance with the size of the talkpage in question, or if the coding is taken into consideration when pondering such a notion. You are almost relentlessly helpful and wise, as well as managing to know and understand the policies better than the people who wrote them. If you have the time and would ponder the notion I am pondering, I would be most grateful. Thank you in advance for reading this, John. --> Suicidal Tendencie 18:20, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * When it gets hard to edit or hard to read. And yes, code size is a criterium. And everything is quite subjective. You get a cookie for grovelling the proper way. Have you used the Internet Oracle at some time in the past? -- ◄mendel► who may or may not know how to ZOT 18:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cookie? I see no cookie... do you mean Wikia left one on my P.C.?
 * Tragically the remainder of your doubtlessly insightful writings were beyond the grasp of my most humble intelligence or lack their of, as the case may be --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 18:31, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I am curious
why it is not a copyright violation for us to have pictures like the piplup on Optime Doom's talk, when gww, gw2w, and even pvx (who is also CC) aren't --  Shadowcrest  19:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a bunch of 1s and 0s, it merely resembles Piplup, proving that it is indeed Piplup and in anyway violates copyright would not be the easiest task
 * And orly? PvXWiki is where I originally encountered it. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It indeed resembles Piplup, and that's all there is needed for it to be a copyvio. When you draw a Piplup in Paint, but alter the colors to red/orange/purple, it's still a Piplup.. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  19:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I believed that it would be required to prove that something is something, for a court to sanction it, or whatever the procedure is.
 * This is largely based on the idea innocent until proven guilty and guesswork
 * If I was incorrect, I apologize --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's intellectual property. Nintendo could sue at any time- iirc, the gist of what they told PvX (yes, someone from PvX asked Nintendo) was "We're probably not going to sue, but we can still sue whenever we want." --  Shadowcrest  19:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I herd it was more like "we technically could sue if we wanted to, but frankly we don't /care so you may as well go ahead" [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If they weren't going to sue why'd you remove it from gw2w? I thought we were always aware there was like a .01% chance of ever being sued for anything, but we deleted copyvios anyway. --  Shadowcrest  23:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No one's going to sue over copyvios on gww, gw2w, pvx, or gwiki (99.9999%) but we delete them to give some semblace of caring about copyright law. It's the only responsible and moral thing to do. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ...then why is the piplup still here? --  Shadowcrest  01:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it's still under discussion (?) and I'd be getting iffy with 1RV stuff? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:28, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it is in Warwick's userspace and should be replaced/removed there. Who wants to tell her? -- ◄mendel► 03:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Would someone please just explain to me how it got there? =/ --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 10:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * She put it there. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  10:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * While we're on the subject of PokeHunts... User:Felix Omni/Piplup would also neeed to be removed, amirite ? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ty Viper --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 12:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya, I suggest 7 day copyvio warning (the one we use for images) inside noinclude tags, and a note on the talkpage, but I don't want to do it (for personal reasons). -- ◄mendel► 14:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and there are also some Mudkips floating around. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're an admin, do your duty! ;-) -- ◄mendel► 11:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That was a subtle hint that I don't remember where they are and was wondering if maybe you did, or else I'd already be on it. Felix also informs me that he wants to do some more research into copyright laws before we launch a full-scale PokeHunt (or delete anything, rather). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've only ever seen the handdrawn copyright-safe mudkips. Felix's got 7 days, and if that's not enough, he can always undelete later. -- ◄mendel► 02:27, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments
Would be imprudent to place in public place. Contact me next time we're both on IRC. Short summary: I don't agree with or understand your position (who'da thunk it?). (T/C) 04:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * :-( -- ◄mendel► 09:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * On further consideration, since there's really an absolutely massive amount of stuff to respond to (without performing very liberal, juducious concicementizing), would you prefer I just e-mail you instead? That would also let me send it to you when the sun is up. (that's right, I'd risk getting tanned just for you!) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:29, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, since for some reason you're not on irc now, that would certainly be an option. Remember I am the user who has Wikimail me? high up on his userpage? ;-) -- ◄mendel► 11:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not on IRC because I had full intentions to go to bed hours ago, but got distracted by more wiki stuff. Why would I use emailuser function if I already have your normal email? So I can use wiki formatting? :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:15, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just mentioned that to indicate that I don't mind getting emailed. :-P -- ◄mendel► 12:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Kongregate
If you enjoy playing Flash games and like to keep a record of what youplayed (plus some social tools, including revealing what you're playing), you may have considered signing up with Kongregate. If you use this link to visit Kongregate and sign up, the GuildWiki user (who won't be playing any games) will get points as you "level up" on Kongregate by playing games.

I'd be willing to do something like this for other sites, but I'm a bit reluctant to announce it on the Community Portal. Should I? -- ◄mendel► 19:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Since it's OT, why not a page (linked from Community) of "Guild Wiki Members Recommend These Sites..." or some such. The topics would be website names, followed by short descrip and member's sig (or multiple sigs, if many recommend).  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, we've never done it that way :). There might be a userbox though. -- ◄mendel► 21:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Kongregate is a game site? I could have sworn that was some kind of app on KDE. :/ Lord Belar 22:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * For userbox, see Template:User Kongregate. -- ◄mendel► 23:02, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Guildwiki Kongregate eh? Well, why not. Ezekiel  [Talk]  13:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

mediawiki resizing of images
Do you know why Template:Disambig is broken? The image is valid, but it seems like resizing a .png within a table breaks things. (T/C) 05:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/thumb/2/24/Disambiguous.png/30px-Disambiguous.png isn't actually valid right now. I'm trying to purge ("refresh") Image:Disambiguous.png and hope it updates. Wikia ftl. -- ◄mendel► 06:37, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Weird - the purge makes that link be a 404 File not found, then after doing a preview on the template it suddenly appears. -- ◄mendel► 06:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I got blocked
...on Darthipedia. They don't mess around. My user page with the backlink here got overwritten. The edit in question on User talk:Linda Mancia got revision deleted (i.e. only admins can see it). They have 5 admins; one doesn't have email set up, so I mailed the other 3.

Subject: Madclaw just blocked me

I got blocked for posting the following on User talk:Linda Mancia, which Madclaw has now revision deleted. I tried to hit a not-too-serious tone, but apparently that backfired. Sorry. -- M.mendel


 * This looks bad. Ask me, and I'd say this: taking a dispute that happened on irc to the wiki, now that looks bad. Vendetta? Maybe, maybe not. But bad. Go look at w:c:darth:Darthipedia:IRC, nice article that is, well written too. It mentions getting kicked off the chat. It mentions getting banned off the chat. What does it say about catching flak on the wiki? Nothing. Zip. Nada. Looks bad. You know what looks worse? Giving a user a week of cooldown without a talkpage warning. I mean, chat and all that, but the written word, it carries weight, it does. You better not disrespect. So you say Linda's "IRC behaviour" makes her look bad. This makes you look bad. Planning to get one of them black helmets soon, you are? You better be, or you're doing it wrong. If you ask me, that is. --~

We'll see what happens. I'm having fun. :) -- ◄mendel► 02:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Lmao, they blocked you "until you're 13 years of age." [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, and Showcrest, too. Probably means I can edit there in 5 years or so. Anyway, MadDog Madclaw read this page and found it worth quoting. ;) -- ◄mendel► 02:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool story bro. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That quote is as out of context as is physically possible without having an ellipse between every word.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 03:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, posted on his talk - how long until I get the banhammer Random Time  08:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * RT, nobody was banned for COPPA - see the block reasons. That's just supposed to be a joke. (And the best answer to Nifky is, people lie. What somebody writes on a wiki someplace else does not constitute proof, and either way, you wouldn't infiniban.)
 * Do I really have to ask you guys to not go invading other wikis? Again? Just let it go. You could've achieved more by doing some beginner's edits on darth and idling in their freenode channel. What do you know, it could be fun? -- ◄mendel► 11:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and please do have the sense to create a new account if you do that. -- ◄mendel► 11:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, surely you were expecting us to do something by posting this on your talk...also, invading other wikis and spreading Air of Superiority is what we do, it's what makes us RebelWiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll probably drop a few wikia folks a line if I get blocked there. We can definitely stir the pot with obvious sysop abuse - there's actually a precedent for demotion if that happens :D - Auron 11:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I want to give the Bcrat a few days to react. He already demoted one sysop (supergeek), he might be willing to do something about this. In fact, on the topic of "Bcrat getting banned (for going counter the prevalent wiki culture)" I was already thinking of you yesterday ;-}. And Entropy, beating up a wiki 1/100th our size (in traffic) is not being rebel. :-P -- ◄mendel► 11:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A lion does not pass up on prey simply because it is easy. :[ I did not mean to suggest we beat them up, but rather educate them in teh ways of better wiki. It worked well on SmashWiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but on Smash we supported Salad, who had an interest (and others of us as well). Anyway, my reason for posting this was basically to show you all how good you have it here - and, in a PanSola vein, to demonstrate that even Bcrats get in trouble sometimes, we're not so special. :) -- ◄mendel► 12:05, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

See w:c:darth:Forum:To our Guildwars brethren. -- ◄mendel► 17:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Currently editing]] over{{formatnum:{{#expr:582797753+{{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} 582,799,415 articles - 582797753 = 1662 articles. We have {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} articles. -- ◄mendel► 20:19, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What's the point of falsifying number of articles? E-peen? :/ - Auron 00:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Their idea of a joke, I guess. If it was serious, they'd have chosen a believable number. -- ◄mendel► 01:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 20,187 would have been a better joke. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

To my Darthipedia Brethren
You've come to a wiki where editors openly criticize the admins - and don't get blocked for it. We only delete text off the wiki's history if there's a compelling legal reason - not because we fear an open talk. Things happen differently here.

What you see above is not a coordinated effort to invade your wiki, and if you had listened in on our chat channel, you'd have seen that nothing of that sort was ongoing. (You'd have seen Supergeek trolling us for 1 1/2 hours yesterday, though; it was fun at first, but got lame later.) What happens is that each and everyone who read this thought to himself "WTF?" and decided to share their thoughts. If you look up the contribution histories of the users concerned, you'll find they can't be socks - heck, half of them are our admins. (For Auron, check pvx:). And every new block by Madclaw just fueled the "WTF?" feeling.

I come away from this feeling that you're on an Orwellian wiki that punishes any kind of criticism as disruption, and if I ever planned to contribute there, I sure won't do that now. And guess what? I don't care. Nice rant on that forum, though, Madclaw. A bit delusional, but nice anyway. :) I was kind of expecting Gonk to have more sense, to be actually able to enter a reasonable dialogue, but that's never happened.

How does it feel to serve the evil empire? Ah, you wouldn't want to have it any other way, right. I'll not be seeing you. -- ◄mendel► 21:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * So say we all Random Time  21:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm opposed to being bandwagoned without my knowledge and would strongly encourage you to change your reply to "I agree" or something similar. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It almost sounds like that entire wiki is "owned" by one person who has multiple puppets pretending to be other people... O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "sounds"? More like is.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  02:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Actual response (link added by me):
 * Concerned citizen: "How does it feel working for the Evil Empire?"
 * Imperial Administrator: "Whoo-hoo! It feels great! Empire Fuck Yeah!"
 * &mdash; A dialogue between a concerned citizen fom a neighbouring state and an Imperial Administator just as the latter ordered the execution of a group of dissidents

-- ◄mendel► 15:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Not talking to me
I've been idling on #gonkipedia on freenode in the hopes that gonk would want to talk to me directly. For two days, on and off, and all I ever wrote were two lines asking Gonk whether he was busy, and cared to chat with me. There were two other darthipedia admins in the channel as well. Nobody talked, but nothing else happend either. Until ... -->|	Cassius_Claw (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/madclaw) has joined #gonkipedia =-=	Mode #gonkipedia +o Cassius_Claw by ChanServ * Cassius_Claw	floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee 	oh look a troll =-=	Mode #gonkipedia +b mendel-de!*@* by Cassius_Claw =-=	YOU (mendel-de) have been booted from #gonkipedia by Cassius_Claw (and thats for invading Poland) That guy's got issues. -- ◄mendel► 14:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Seriously... O_o  Is there like a "higher" Wikia authority that can demote those shitheads and appoint a Bcrat with at least half a brain?  I think it's beyond the point of funny now.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, potentially this whole incident is a violation of ToS, AGF, Blocking and potentially a variant of Protection (they're "protecting" the wiki by blocking all of us). --JonTheMon 18:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to start policy lawyering on this. See w:c:darth:Darthipedia:Never Upset A Wookiee. Ofc Madclaw violates their own blocking policy, but he likes violating things, and it takes 3 admins to care to overturn another admin on that wiki, and there's absolutely no chance that this is going to happen for outsiders like us. If they want to look bad, they can. But with admins like that, if you wanted to start another Star Wars humor wiki on wikia, you'd probably have a good chance of getting it approved. -- ◄mendel► 18:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, nobody's forcing anyone to join that community, and the editors that are on aren't complaining, so wikia's going to say that's ok. But if we ever move off wikia, I know that I'll stay here and play that kind of admin. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 18:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

in the eyes of onlookers
keeping epic chronicles of these events makes you seem somewhat petty, even if you are on teh moral high ground (are you?), imho. Can't we just let this go and move on? (T/C) 18:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If these were the chronicles of a petty person, you'd be seeing a lot more details. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 19:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Re: the moral high ground, on their forum you see claims of us using sockpuppets and "openly admitting to disrupt a wiki". I hold these to be untruths, and I'm not spreading any. -- ◄mendel► 22:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

trolls
"your so called "friends" who have come to your defence are known trolls" -- ◄mendel► 02:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess this is our punishment for being Rebelpedia... blocked from posting on Star Wars humour wikis. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:59, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why would you want to go to Darthpedia, it is sort of a joke around starwars anyway. And not the good kind of joke. You are better off on wookiepedia. There are some other starwars wikis out there that are nice. Not sure if you are interested, but there is about to be a Star Wars: The Old Republic mmo. Looks like it will be great. They are taking some of the good ideas from guildwars too, like the story line and hero setup. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 22:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I wanted to let you know, if you are interested, they have posted the first part in the history. History part 1 narrated by Lance Henrikson. You will notice the references to Guild Wars:Factions in that they have divided the planets with 8 on each side. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 23:28, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks like an interesting place. The Uncyclopedia of Star Wars. Plus, while it officially seems to be in... well, not English... all their articles are in English. I wonder what Madclaw would do if a few of us went over there and started contributing without trolling.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  21:13, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He'd ban anyway. They're a very exclusive bunch. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

BTW
I'm not actually the same person, it just seemed like a good idea at the time.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 03:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Now you insult me. -- ◄mendel► 03:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Always.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 03:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Images on page
Reminder to self: put a list of images on a page in the bottom section of its edit page, next to the template transclusions. -- ◄mendel► 07:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is the info on when that functionality was added (here) and here is the version i think we're using now (here). So i think they'd need to update dpl to get that to properly work. --JonTheMon 16:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Duplication of content allowed on Wikia
What would you do if you ever find a wiki duplicating content of "your" wiki ?

I was so shocked.

So i contacted Wikia in many way at the same time. One been a message on Angela's talk page.

But, sadly, she doesn't seems to understand why this is a problem.

So, now i'll have to try my best to "beat them" (by reproducing their unique content in the way we do at fr.guildwars - without copying it).

It's war. — TulipVorlax 08:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Compatible license is compatible? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, for starters I have problems understanding their mission statement on the mainpage -- what is "Ombrevents"? Usually, people are not allowed to create wiki that duplicates the mission of an existing wiki exactly, so if somebody gave it a "go" they must have a different orientation - are they intending to write more fanfic, more "advice" type of pages, more guild pages, or what?
 * There is only one way you can do skills because the data is the same. And in fact, you could copy each other directly (if you give credit) because the GFDL your wikis are under allows it. Copy the content by special:export/import (full history), and you've got everything the GFDL demands. So by that token, it can't be war - you either cooperate and learn from each other, or you don't. Guess what will be helping you most?
 * You might also want to tell them that they can link your articles with [[w:c:fr.guildwars:Lacération|Lacération ]]. -- ◄mendel► 11:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, i telled them, but a bit late, maybe. They dont care.
 * They have simply disguised their duplication orientation by saying it's an alliance wiki (not that it's not true; it's just incomplete).
 * I did not looked other replies i got here and there but i think that it's still "war" because now i'll began to "steal" what they have that we have not. But never in a way that will need attribution; i mean, i dont do copy-paste or anything; i create original content that might look alike but will still be original. Like i always done on fr.guildwars.
 * — TulipVorlax 23:00, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

In case you are interested, the problem seems solved. Not that they will stop redoing all skils pages but it is now clearer that coexistence is possible. What solve it his that both of "us" have come to Wikia after loosing another wiki elsewhere. — TulipVorlax 23:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's good to hear! Talking to each other succeeds again! -- ◄mendel► 00:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Lol : Changes to create wiki process — TulipVorlax 20:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

You have achieved negative leet


13:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * O.O Thanks for noticing, that wasn't by design. Guess I'm just a natural. ;-P -- ◄mendel► 14:49, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol. Userbox needed.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 19:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Image
Ey Mendel did I do somthing wrong because of the Revert? --   † F1 ©  Talk  09:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * See [ the log]. -- ◄mendel► 10:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I right only saw Reverted to version.... Sry about that. Hmm copyright. So no fair use then :P I sure am dumb in things like this. hehehe sry to bother you again xD (right loging in would be better) -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]] <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  11:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Read Fair use. Copying a whole comic is too much (factor 3), and you're not using it for review purposes. Scott Ramsoomair states on his website that he is fine with people using his characters as avatars, though, so using a small portion of his stuff (liek you did before) is probably ok.
 * Ideally, though, images uploaded to the wiki should have some kind of open license so that people can reuse them with no restrictions, but we've not been enforcing that. (There's a discussion on the admin noticboard archive about that, I think.) -- ◄mendel► 11:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Dam it Mendel is there no end of your smart brain! Ty once again :D -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]] <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  13:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Sungs
I have all of the Guild Wars music and could upload it as .ogg files, for use in the Music article or something. But, as they cost money and are usually DMA-protected, would that be a breach of copyright? Or can we get around that with fair-use? (T/C) 05:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * copyright is in the eye of the beholder. (Someone threatened to sue me for using my moniker, claiming they owned the rights to TEF in any form.) Almost any intellectual property creator is going to claim ownership; almost any fan (or free spirit or freeloader :-) is going to claim fair use. Pix are usually safe b/c there's not much $ in 'em. Music, well, remember how many 85 year-old grandmas and 2-year olds were sued for MP3 files? Doesn't matter if it's fair use if the company has enough lawyers; you still have to defend. Or, using GW jargon, music is almost always in someone's aggro range. Safer option: link to some place that already has the tunes. Or: excerpts seem to be safe, 30 sec being typical.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:42, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * See Copyright (I just updated it). The in-game tracks are probably covered by the ArenaNet license, the DirectSong tracks are not. To claim fair use in music matters, I would expect any court to look strongly to the "substantiality" factor, that is, if they see whole tracks being posted, it's likely that a judge would rather think "copyvio" than "that's fair". This is not legal advice, merely my personal view. IANAL. -- ◄mendel► 10:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Yes, you may use our content — that is images, text, and video or audio files — within the following parameters:" - however, does the GW music count as ArenaNet's copyright, or does copyright go back to Soule? <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  21:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On my disc it says "(c) 2005 NCsoft Corporation - nothing about original composer's rights. <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  21:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

category: wtf?
'''Vandals? Visigoths? Barbarian Hordes?'''

Category:Any_more_the_eviscerate_executioners_strike_spike_dont_work_that_much_but_its_fairly_effective._very_weak_against_any_type_of_anti-melee_and_shock_is_a_costly_interrupt_skill (category exists with only member = your vandalism page; figured you might want to decide if it's a true )   &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya, like Category:BABBYEATER. Hmm. -- ◄mendel► 20:10, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, why is your TalkPage a friendly user which often goes on IRC? --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 15:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it's not using the 1337 h4x I invented for the Kongregate box. Fixing, please stand by. -- ◄mendel► 16:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Because the talk page is there to contact me, and you can also do that on irc, and I'll be friendly when you do. :) There is no way to make my userpage show up instead. -- ◄mendel► 16:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How? As far as I know, the page listed in the category is the page the userbox is on. (Unless you were thinking of moving my userbox...) -- ◄mendel► 17:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what we were all thinking, Mendel. *nods* --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 17:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Remove the cat from the userbox and add it to your userpage if you want the box to stay here ;o --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * HA! Told you you'd be a good Sysop. And ye, just recreate the userboxes with coding --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 18:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

sigpic hack
Madclaw strikes again. He's like the Bernard Madoff of wikis, I can blame him for everything! :D (T/C) 09:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish I could see what I'm ranting about, css is not updating for me. ◄mendel► 09:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I just ctrl + F5 it, and now I am seeing "I <3 WoW" sigpics. I feel your pain, though... the favicon has refused to load for days now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Probably wasn't the smartest idea for April Fool's
^ (T/C) 00:43, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I tried
and I'd like you to know it was not just because you suggested it; there's an immeasurable difference when someone knows they did wrong and when they feel they are being blamed unfairly. It would appear to have been wasted effort; but I don't regret trying. --> Suicidal Tendencie 12:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that, and thought you did rather well. If Jink reads it, it won't have been wasted, no matter whether there's a reply or not. -- ◄mendel► 17:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:20, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Why are people blocked?
Hi, I'd like to say one thing before getting into this. I am talking to Mendel here - and while everyone is intended to their own opinion - I'm just trying to clarify something. I'm not suggesting we change policy - I'm just trying to understand Mendel. So, that said, while anyone is of course free to say something - there is little if any reason to do so at this time.

Now that that's said - Hi Mendel! I've been floating around the wiki this morning, and I've seen you asking "why are people blocked?" and discussions around it. In particular, the prevention or punishment discussions with should there be rules or guidelines etc. Forgive me - odds are I've missed half it, possibly including something which satisfied you on this matter. But I wanted to suggest that while different Admins have different "styles" when it comes to blocking, surely an RfA would or at least bloody well should look at this in detail and that someone would only get promoted if people do feel that they can be trusted with the tool?

So, if this has not been resolved yet, I know you have in the past done so, but maybe look at RfAs as well as simply what to do with existing Sysops. this site won't be getting many more Sysops, but still... My point being, while the blocking style may vary, surely the community has already accepted the likely style of each Sysop already? --> Suicidal Tendencie 13:09, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * See, this wiki runs by community consensus. That means we don't have static rules, policies are just written explanations of what the consensus is, and it changes over time. The same goes for blocking "rules". There is a sort of broad consensus among sysops, and while we don't necessarily do things exactly alike, if somebody goes too far out, a block gets reverted and discussion ensues (though it's not always as dramatic as in January).
 * So what we're looking for in a sysop is somebody who can in most cases recognize consensus and submit to it -- one of the reasons why it was such a hard decision to promote me initially: because I like to challenge consensus, I get pegged as a "mover and shaker", and I need to walk the line of keeping to consensus with my "actions" while moving it with my "words" (and yes, the distinction is kinda hard on a wiki where everything is words). -- ◄mendel► 18:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Interjection
Given a subheading so mendel can reply directly to your message. Remember that sysops don't need to be accepted by the community at all, as long as they are accepted by a single bureaucrat. Look at User:R.Phalange and Requests for adminship/R.Phalange. 17:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Argh! Well that's one way to leave ST alone and still get your two cents in. :-P -- ◄mendel► 18:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Felix, why do you think it is that R.Phalange never did much as a sysop? Because he knew he would've been out of community consensus if he did what he really wanted to. So auron may have promoted him, but it would've damaged the wiki if that was all it took. We don't work that way, and fortunately for us, neither does R.Phalange. -- ◄mendel► 18:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, but when Suicidal writes "My point being, while the blocking style may vary, surely the community has already accepted the likely style of each Sysop already?" he seems to be asking or implying that the community accepts the blocking style of the sysop simply because he's a sysop. That's what I'm clarifying. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:18, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you're clarifying it wrong. Superficially, as long as the Bcrat backs the sysops, their blocking style goes. But actually, a Bcrat who has the best interests of the community in mind (this goes for admind and everone else, too, of course), can't uphold policies that contravene consensus. -- ◄mendel► 18:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not because he / she is a sysop - no. I mean when people are dicussing an RfA to help the BCrats who supposedly take the points into consideration surely their probable attitude to blocking would be an important issue discussed?


 * I hope you understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying I said. You're saying I said they're Sysops they do what they like and that's that. I'm saying before they are Sysops the community will, probably, discuss if they'll be responsible with blocking, and if their style will be deemed acceptable. Please do reply letting me know if you grasp the subtle difference, your opinion is important to me.


 * Also - nice job, you're creative, Felix. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:20, 4 April 2009 (UTC) Hope you don't mind me nicking your idea, Mendel. Anyway, Felix, "nice job" doesn't cover it. Thank you. -->19:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and anyway, Felix. I was talking about the ideal situation. Really I don't know enough to be talking about what I am talking about (though asking Mendel on his opinion I feel is reasonable enough, as I'm learning from doing this). I'm not going into the various possible problems (Beercrats ignoring consensus, etc.) and whatnot, as that'll only serve to make it more complicated and put me futher out of my depth. And I hope this makes sense. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:35, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We've only had one beerocrat, and she was actually very fair and just. All she did while drunk was hit on other girls. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That on YouTube? --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 20:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but you can read it here. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:30, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't recall any discussion on "probable blocking behaviour" on any RfA, but then I've not seen many. -- ◄mendel► 20:39, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But... but... I want a video! --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 21:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr Every RfA does "discuss if they'll be responsible with blocking, and if their style will be deemed acceptable", and other than Pling's promotion (which was quite an anomaly/strange situation and is useless for terms of this conversation), every single time a sysop has been promoted the answer has been "yes" from both the community in general and the resolving bureaucrat(s). Well, as many as I can remember. RfAs that did not succeed were usually for other reasons not related to use of the block etc. tools. (T/C) 05:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL @ "yes" and "no": "yes", it was discussed, "no", it never had any impact. :) -- ◄mendel► 10:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Distributing new QR page
Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but you've been very helpful to me on here so far, so I figure I'll just start with you when I have no clue what to do. :]

So playing a Dervish made me want to create an Effect on removal skills quick reference, which I did. Then you helped me find the CSS code to make the TOC manageable. Great, it's readable and everything now. But the thing is, no one can see it because nothing links to it.

I'd like to go through and update all the skills-that-remove-other-skills's pages (Wild Blow, Pious Renewal, Remove Hex... etc) and add a link to the QR under the "Related articles" section. The idea being that even if someone is using a generic removal skill (like Strip Enchantment), they might be curious what enemy enchantments benefit/penalize on removal instead of merely disappearing. Etc etc etc.

But some questions occurred to me:
 * Is that "okay" or do I need to get some concensus (located... somewhere) that my QR is worth linking to first? Realistically I don't want to go update 95 skill pages if it's just going to be someone else's revert chore a few days later. In other words, the QR makes sense and seems appropriate to me, but then, I'm a little biased. x]
 * ...and then, wow, that's a lot of removal skills. Is there some way to automate the process of adding a QR to each appropriate skill's "Related articles" area? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by AudreyChandler (contribs) 18:59, 04 04 2009.


 * (great idea! I have linked to it from my Shortcuts page until the wiki can catch up. Ping me here if the adoption process turns out to be more manual than automated; I'll help.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:22, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (great idea! I have linked to it from my Shortcuts page until the wiki can catch up. Ping me here if the adoption process turns out to be more manual than automated; I'll help.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:22, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I'm sorry, I know you weren't asking me, but I've 1 tip for you, if that's okay.


 * Do it. Be Bold if the community doesn't like it, it'll be reverted to, and nothing more will be said. If the community is divided, it'll be reverted, discussed, and ultimately, a decission will be made. You're not a troll; you're not a vandal. You are adding new, valuable information to the wiki thank you! so nobody will give you a hard time for a few too many links.


 * One thing, and this goes hand in hand with what I just said. While the community respects you; this has to work both ways. So please don't think I'm talking down to you here - it is a lesson that is hard to learn. But, if the community feels some of the links none / some / all, whatever aren't needed, please do take that on board. There's nothing to be ashamed of, and the information will still be there and possible to find. I know from bitter experience - know when to walk away. Once again, thank you for your contributions. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Start by linking the other removal QRs to each other, and maybe link from "skill" or wherever removing skills is discussed. Yes, it is possible to link it to some skills using a bot, but considering you'd need to set this up this is probably faster: go down your QR, open 20 skills in tabs, go through the tabs hitting "edit", and then paste the link into each and save, repeat. -- ◄mendel► 20:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is that my QR is a list of skills that do something when their lives are ended prematurely by cruel fate, and I'd want to link to it from the pages of the skills that would do the removing (since you're more likely to be interested in a list like this when you're contemplating a skill that strips other ones, rather than just seeing other skills which also have an effect on end). Which is still entirely doable through QR->New Tab cycles using other QRs, but idk. In the age of scripting and fancy smart technology it just seems so tedious to do it all by hand. x]


 * How hard is it to set up a bot that you feed a list of skills and it goes and adds the link to each skills' Related Articles area? -- AudreyChandler 21:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends on where the link is to go in each case, and how consistent the headers are. See Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser. -- ◄mendel► 00:16, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So this works on Wikia and GuildWiki too? Have you used this program before? It looks awesome if it works. -- AudreyChandler 17:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. You have to set the site to "wikia" and enter "guildwars" in the preferences, then it does work. Mostly. :) -- ◄mendel► 18:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

New Policy?
Hi there!

This'll probably be far too... impractical, more than anything else, but I remain interested in the concept regardless. I was thinking of several overheated um... contribution frenzys in my past, and first wondered if IRC being mandatory might help, as people could explain their edits, instead of the edits being interpreted in any one of a number of ways.

Then a marginally better idea hit me. Since effective, helpful edit summaries and explainations of edits on the TalkPage of articles basically don't exist, why not make it that, say if I make an edit, you revert it, I go on the TalkPage of the article, rip off the RfA format, and any passing user in the next 24 hours could add their two cents, so while probably impractical and seen as too much work, it would have the potential to give a fairly clear show of community consensus. While most would just sign under one of the two options, some would raise good points (I'm hoping) and either way, if it ends up seven to two, or similar, you learn if you're on the right track or if there's a flaw in your logic.

I know how awkward it seems, and I don't even know if a policy is needed to get something like this in motion, but surely getting community consensus is better for the site than revert wars and open hostility.

And I also apologise for this being much, much longer than I had intended it to be, ST. --> Suicidal Tendencie 08:51, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, take as much words as you need to,bits are cheap. :) We don't need policies for what you suggest, because basically that's our supposed operating procedure right now: you can use people's talkpages to challenge their edits (especially if they're on a spree making many edits, the "new messages" notice should get you to check your talkpage ASAP), and you should take a revert to teh talkpage to discuss, and what is decided there is what goes on the article later. But we don't do votes (and in fact, don't do votes on RfA any more, look at Warwick's latest), instead preferring argument. (It usually isn't as big and explosive as teh one we had on Necromancer headgear, but that's very basically how it worked.) If you think this needs to made clearer, e.g. on GW:1RV, feel free to point out what needs to be clarified or added. -- ◄mendel► 10:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's what I meant by a few people hopefully coming up with good arguments too.
 * And I just feel... I don't know. I suppose I'd almost prefer a set of instructions... it's hard to put my finger on it.
 * I like the exception on GW:1RV, but nobody could argue that the exception makes it any clearer... and atm it's lacking. And the fact it somehow fails to mention getting other opinions I find astounding. If two people feel so strongly, and differently on a topic, it should be other, "neutral" people discussing it, not those two. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 10:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Image question
When you get a sec I put something on my user page near the bottom I wanted you to have a look at. I know we had a similar discussion before about creature pages with no background, but I wanted to get your input on weapons/shields/offhands with no background. Anyway you can see a basic sample and hopefully give me your opinion one way or another. I know you are busy so no rush. Thanks. Tenetke Mekko   My Talk 04:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to barge in, I know you asked Mendel, but I would like to offer an opinion for your consideration. First of all, it completely removes any kind of reference on size relative to the character.  There would be no apparent size difference between the obsidian Earth staff and a Fire Wand.  Goldtouched Staff is much longer than most staves, while Ether Staff is much shorter, and the only way to tell is to see them on a character, even if all you're seeing is the hand and part of the legs.  This becomes much more obvious with Shields, where you can see more of the character.  And you would not be able to guess where the hand would actually grab the item.  Also, there is significant loss of the "glow" details around the gem, and it's harder to tell how it might look in an environment.  Personally, I prefer the current images at Isle of the Nameless, primarily for these reasons.  Your image looks nice an perfect, like it was made in a "sterile lab environment," so to speak, but it loses any kind of relation to in-game appearance.  Many weapon images still need updating to that format, because some of the current ones have horrible background, lighting, and resolution, meaning you can't use those images to "clean them up" anyway (unless you extracted the texture, then my apologies).  Thanks for reading.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 06:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize, it was for mendel but I appreciate any input. I agree with you on the size problems. There really isn't much to show scale on mine. No I don't use other images to clean them up I usually use my own and then extract from there. Scaling takes care of the problems that usually occur with that so in the end it looks nice and clean. Like you said like it was made in a sterile environment. That is sort of what I was aiming for, a look at the weapon clean and clear with nothing to hide any details. Sort of like an encyclopedia might give. I was thinking of starting a separate page with different pictures for some items. It would be only various images of the items laid out like a standard encyclopedia might. It wouldn't list all the same information that is contained in the item pages themselves, and then link it to the page for people interested in it. Might be a bit redundant though. Anyway you are free to comment, I didn't really mean it to sound exclusive to Mendel, I just get feedback from him on most of the pictures I post here. Thanks for posting your opinion. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 06:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just some scrub giving his oppinion, but what if you combined the two images and put them on the page? That way you get to see the "encyclopedia" look, and at the same time a picture that relates to the game. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 06:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec) If you are willing to put in the effort, it would be nice to have these images in addition to the current ones, but they should not completely replace what's there. Something like a Staff/Gallery or Shield/Gallery (etc. - there's one for all weapon types), but with your "clean" images would be neat. Also, having both in the article next to each other would probably be redundant, but a separate gallery I think would be nice. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you've seen the reaction, so what more can I say? Personally, I am still in favor of putting bith pictures on the page, or maybe at least linking to yours on the "see also", because it does look good. -- ◄mendel► 10:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well personally I prefer your pictures. And considering the armor overview, component view, and colorable areas all being listed twice on each armor page, three pictures for each, I fail to see why we can't find space for one additional picture for pages which are so much smaller. I would say replace the current pictures with Tenetke's pictures, and leave the current pictures for showing the effects of dye, so in many ways you get the best of both worlds. Both styles, and it doesn't even change the size of the page. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 12:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That will make the pages look very inconsistent, tho. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How so? Every page will be the same, and people will mostly use the "current style" for the effects of dye, but can refer to it if they don't prefer Tenetke's pictures. Just my two cents. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 12:06, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The first gallery has no background, then you scroll on, and suddenly, there's IotN. Further on the background goes away again, but reappears for the last few images. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that many pages still don't have the IotN images done right, and don't have the dye charts, making them already inconsistent. So, unless Tenetke can do all weapons like that, his contributions would make them even more inconsistent.  Don't get me wrong, I like them a lot, and I think that linking to the images in some way from the weapon page, or including them towards the bottom would be great, but don't replace anything unless you can replace them all and do the dye charts at the same time to provide a "perspective" on the in-game look, which I think is way more than we could ask for.  And then, you still have weapons that cannot be dyed, quite a few of them...  This is why I offered a "gallery" type setup for now, because this way it does not introduce more inconsistency to the current articles, but is there for anyone to look at.  Once it's more or less complete, it can be integrated into the articles, but I'm pretty sure it would take quite a while to get it to that point, since Tenetke is taking his own images and editing them, so he would have to have every weapon in the game to complete this.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't need an overarching solution right now: suggest a place where to put it (or put it there yourself) so these images don't get lost, and when there's a good number of them, we can decide what to do with them then. The one thing I do not want it to have more of these "combination" images, they're hard to reuse. Just get something started, it'll be fine, if anyone doesn't like that, they can try something better, and the more popular solution would win out. -- ◄mendel► 21:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)