Talk:Jagged Bones

I'm pretty sure you can cast Jagged Bones on the Jagged Horror that spawns. Therefore, Jagged Bones would result in an infinate minion bomb. Combined with Putrid Flesh and Death Nova, that's extremely powerful. --Zinger314 10:41, 23 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Yea, I fear inpending Nerfdom :o( --JP 04:44, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Pity it can't be spammed like Death Nova =\ >> Trace 13:54, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Either we're overreacting, or every elite in Nightfall will be nerfed soon. DancingZombies 18:24, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's not going to be nerfed. Why would they nerf it? An infinite supply of level 16 Minions? I'll stick with using corpses. Those things are going to get slaughtered in high level PvE. Alt F Four 04:01, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's not just the supply of minions. It's the supply of energy. For each 5 energy you invest - all necros around you get 10-15 energy when they die. Also when you create minions past your max limit, and have cast jagged bones on a bunch of them, whoosh all necros just hit their energy max :). Not sure if that means it should be nerfed tho. For now it's quite fun for necros.

This is good to give to the Master of Whispers or Olias, along with Death Nova, because they don't have to worry about micro and which minion already has Jagged Bones or not. :) Shido 11:53, 7 November 2006 (CST)

Question
If you cast this on an allies Minion who gets the resulting horror? --JP 04:44, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Tested in Fort Aspenwood today. The ally who controlled the original minion gets the new horror. Khoross 11:05, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Does it work with Rt/N builds? As in will Explosive Growth and Boon of Creation trigger when the new bone horror spawn? --Apocrypha 19:33, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Also yes. Or at least, tested with Boon of Creation, Explosive Growth should also trigger. Time to update my NF Minion Bombing build. --Khoross 12:05, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

this cannot be nerfed its too cool 1 lvl 18 followed by 2 lvl 16's or 1 depending on your minion preference so i cant wait

Another Question
What happens if two MMs cast this on one minion? Skax459 19:49, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * One mimion is created.. or at least that makes the most sense as u cannot gain benifit from 2 exact same enchants at the same time eg healing breeze casting on u 2 times will not give extra regen it will simply renew the breeze so casting jagged bones 2 times should simply renew it --Gene195 21:34, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Check the mechanic under "un-maintained" Enchantments. BarGamer 23:25, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

Flesh Golem
Do you think this could be a viable alternative to the(somewhat overrated)Flesh Golem for Minion Masters?- 68.6.89.61 57:15, 27 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Was playing with this in AB over the weekend. I think I prefer it but we'll have to see how I feel when the novelty wheres off. Also in an area with limited coprses I can see this shining. --JP 07:16, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * To me, anything is really better than a level 26 mindless beast that attacks every 2-3 seconds to only one target. You getting the corpse is iffy as well, depending on other MMs. With this, however, you're nearly guaranteed infinite minions, as no one would (or really should, even with this) remove enchantments from minions, although it doesn't matter, as this is fairly spammable. DancingZombies 18:24, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't see how getting a level 16 mindless beast that attacks every 2-3 seconds to only one target is all that much better than a level 26 one. Anyway, it's horses for courses - Flesh Golems are very useful in PvE as tanks, something which Jagged Horrors simply can't do. It'll depend on your MM strategy - this is certainly a better elite than FG for a minion bomber, for example. --NieA7 06:01, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I always saw flesh golem as my personal bodyguard. An obedient tank.  Assassinman 14:44, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Here's a quick and easy way to think about it: Use Flesh Golem for PvE, and this for PvP. Maybe not as much in AB, though that's the only place where MMs are viable, other than Fort, for PvP... Still, you get the idea. This skill, for example, could actually make MMs useful in Thunderhead Keep, in my opinion. DancingZombies [[Image:Aura_of_the_Lich.jpg|24px]] 20:39, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Targeted enchant removal is unlikely on a minion, but Well of the Profane and Dervish enchant removals (multi targeted) can negate it without even noticing. Caths 15:46, 24 November 2006 (CST)

This is my new Favorite elite. Use this in the Build:Rt/N Explosive Growth Minion Bomber build. Replaces Golem but use signet then cast this, then death nova (to cover recharge time) on as many minions as possible. You get the explosion and the poision and up to 6 jagged horrors(with a +20% enchantment and casting before the sig) an when the jagged horrors attack it causes bleeding and you could even cast this out of battle so you dont ever lose your minions.--Coloneh 17:02, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

Looks to me like this skill would be perfect for using Summon Minions since they'er really only good at getting in the way. But this skill because of its fast recharge will let ya change 2 lvl 13 minions into 2 lvl 16 minions that cause bleeding definatly good for minions bombs.NovaTalon 11:09, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Aquisition
The Info regarding capturing this skill without the quest turns out to be bogus, there is a boss where the NPCs are, but it's a Mesmer boss with Signet of illusions. If anyone doesn't know at least where to look for this skill, please say so.


 * I actually got this skill from another quest, Breaking the Broken. Someone told me that you get it from a Forgotten in the Gates of Torment, so I went. Very hard quest >_O but the skill cap is worth it!

Edit: on a random note, this skill has a cool spiffy-lookin animation O_0 Has anyone noticed a few Nightfall nec skills look really cool when used? O_oP A R A S I T I C 21:17, 2 November 2006 (CST)

Heroes are dumb
Just a note, necro heroes might cast this on minions created by foes, so you'd end up facing the jagged horrors your own hero's spell created. This possible bug has been reported on to ANet --Angelo


 * how does that work? It's an enchantment, not hex. --Silk Weaker 00:22, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * Are you sure your heroes are casting it and not the enemy team? For instances, Shadow of Fear creatures cast this and keep them indefinably up. Xeon 00:40, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * I am positive, since this happened on Factions side, in Echovald Forest, Morostav Trail, where Stone Scale Kirins use Animate Vampiric Horror and Tainted Flesh. I would strike a Vampiric Horror down, and it would be replaced by a Jagged Horror. So there.. Unless ANet has made Nightfall elite skills available to Factions foes with another elite skill, I'd totally say that this is true. And besides, read the skill description. 'target undead servant'. Does it say 'target allied' anywhere on it? I think not. I'll try get a screen shot for you, since you don't believe it. --Angelo EDIT: They have fixed this already, the spell cannot be cast on hostile minions anymore. And I am sad for not having a screenshot to prove the bug that existed for some time.
 * I was thinking Revealed Enchantment, but whatever. --Silk Weaker 01:52, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * If you see a foe with Revealed Enchantment in the two groups at the exit of Vasburg Armory to the Morostav Trail, following the road leading away from the Resurrection Shrine, do tell me. This spell is still castable on minions made by foes, it just won't show up as an enchantment on them though. --Angelo
 * They fixed the bug, it can only be used on allied minions now. And who dared to say I was wrong? --Angelo
 * Man, you need an attitude check, and you need to not bring little e-penis battles into here. -Scyfer 08:14, 12 December 2006 (CST)

I found that heros with this skill will not cast it on minions you create. However, they are very good at maintaining their own army with this if you give them an animate spell. Friends and I noticed a considerable difference doing Defend North Kryta Province with and without a hero MM. Even with the boss stealing a few with Verata's Gaze, nobody died compared the the abysmal failures with just a nuker hero instead. --Thervold 19:47, 27 November 2006 (CST)

Fixed the note about the ritualist enchantments as i tesed them awhile ago and just re-tested them.--Coloneh RIP 21:19, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Nearest Minion *Without* Jagged Bones on it?
I decided to check this, since it sounded too good to be true, and it seems that it is. Tried for a good 10-15 mins with Jagged Bones and 10 minions up, it always casted on the nearest one, even if none of the others had Jagged Bones on them and it already did. Seems A-Net gives no free lunches. Unless anybody else can explain this info, I'll change it. Zerris 00:45, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've tested Jagged Bones, apparently it looks as priority in the range it is, randomly choosing a target within the smallest range with minions in it.(Adjacent, Nearby, etc.) Spark 14:28, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Also, as for the idea of having two MMs, one just using this skill... didn't somebody else in here say that it gives the new Horror to whoever controlled the old Minion? If so, it would just be a waste of time, since you'd still have a max of 10 minions. The Necro with Jagged Bones wouldn't get any. Zerris 00:48, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Interaction with Explosive Growth
Having tested all combinations I can think of in the Great Temple just now, Jagged Bones will trigger Explosive Growth if Explosive Growth is on the master of the minion when a new one is spawned through Jagged, regardless of who cast Jagged Bones. --Khoross 10:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * yup. i already tested that, and its on the article and a little higher up on the talk page.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 17:36, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Enemy Minions

 * This spell may also be cast on enemy or unbound minions, and an ally jagged horror is spawned once that minion dies.

Testing revealed the above to be inaccurate, so I removed it. Ubermancer 17:00, 31 December 2006 (CST)

15 sec recharge.. GG this skill will never see use on my skill bar again.

Nerfed to LAME
This elite has just been nerfed to bottom of the skill pile status. Even with a 20% enchant mod, only 3 minions can have it on them. Queen Schmuck 23:06, 1 February 2007 (CST) (oops)
 * Yeah, the new recharge is pretty saddening. Hopefully they'll at least settle for something under 10 soon.
 * You'd need an Enchanting mod and every piece of HSR Death Magic spells mod you could get. Just when I thought there was a new MM elite better than Flesh Golem... well, at least there's still Order of Undeath. 24.6.147.36 23:55, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Order of Undeath was always way better than this. Who really got screwed by this were Rt/N MMs, myself included. With it at 5s recharge, you could create a fountain of Explosive Growths (not to mention Death Nova) and deal enough damage to actually make the Rt/N more than an interesting novelty. Now they're back in the realm of curios; interesting, fun on occasion, but not really useful. Zaq 23:59, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * I question whether it's really LAME now or not. On a single Hero, yes I think it is and also found it to be one of the Hardest skills I've ever had to 'Cap'. Getting it off of Shiro and the Lich would have been easier than the Emissary of Dhuum (Necromancer).  But it still seems rather 'minmaxxable' to me, especially if you were to setup two necro/Mo's with Enchant staffs.  I tried a similar strategy myself on Thirsty River where I've never been able to get the bonus before even with my Nuking Heroes, but I got it first attempt with this new Dual-Jagged strategy despite this Nerf. (they were also setup with Malign+Verata & Shambling to effectively quadruple their Minion counts per 'fleshy'). Both of them had 8 or 9 minions at near full health at the start of every round in Thirsty River. --ilr [3/11/2008]

This nerf annihilates the Jagged Nova build. Llava 00:12, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Test Weekend Much? El Cerouni 01:45, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Unless you mean the test weekend might make them change their minds on some skills, the changes made today seem permanent as of right now. Either that or they just put the test weekend changes into effect early, in which case they'd still be permanent for now, since they state, and I quote, "We'll be leaving the changes in place this time, but will assess player feedback to help formulate future balance changes and updates". Capcom 01:58, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * RIP Jagged bones oh how my Rit will miss you..Seems to me I'll be using another elite now..perhaps reclaim essence or something...at least Zergway got nerfed(thank god I was tired of having to run it.. stupid andrew) in this update too..but no more hex/minion.. and I liked that build, it was fun. --Dazra 02:43, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'm really saddened by this as well. I used Olias always as a bomber with Jagged Bones... it worked so well. The recharge should at least be made 10 seconds, IMO. 15 is just too much as it seems largely ineffective now.
 * I second Jagged Bones to 10-second-recharge. It's not even worthy of the Elite tag now, it's pretty much a (cheaper and faster) copy of Animate Shambling Horrors. Which also has a ridiculous recharge time. XP BarGamer 15:56, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * I really do think it was fine as it was. Yeah, it could be extremely powerful in the right situation, but it was also really, really easy to counter.  Diversion, for instance. Llava 07:32, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Diversion is counter for ANY skill... --DragonLord 08:25, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Not for spells with a long cast time, it's easy to break it off and just stall until Diversion wears off. But for a quick casting spammable skill like Jagged Bones, Diversion is murder.  But it's all moot now.  Llava 00:22, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Crazy thought just came to mind. Dump heal area, use Arcane Mimicry instead. LOL! Still not as effective (and much more expensive), but I might just give this idea a try. Queen Schmuck 10:59, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * lol good luck with that =P --Dazra 16:09, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Not saying it is a good idea or build, just something I might try on Olias. The main hard part may be getting him to arcane his jagged...  I am pretty sure (80%) that the Jagged Bomb Mimic hero build will suck, but Olias never complains.  :P  Queen Schmuck 18:04, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * lol I could see it now - 'Koss why do you suck so much?', 'well if you quit giving me mending, frenzy and heal sig...' --Dazra 18:23, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Mending? On a Hero Warrior?!?  Blasphemy!!  Koss would never allow such a thing!  Olias never complains but Koss sure will, just take away his sword sometime.  LOL!  I think Koss is too keen on keeping his monk skills limited to Smite Hex or Dismiss Condition.  Queen Schmuck 18:29, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I dont know what came on the skill bar when you got koss but this is what mine had. [[Image:kossiswammo.jpg|thumb]]-- Xeon 01:23, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Moved remainder to User_talk:Xeon. Queen Schmuck 02:42, 3 February 2007 (CST)

of all the nerfs i had an infinite bomber idea and i just got nerfed out of the question well done anet for making another skill LAME and worthless Dstroyer 666 07:33, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Shouldn't the main page be updated to state that only up to 3 can be up with it as it kinda gives false hope to the newbies who read the main page. Just my thought FredisHere 06:10, 12 February 2007 (CST)


 * I think it does show that in the skill description, as the enchantment has a 30 second duration, and the skill has a 15 second recharge. But I guess a note could be added in that without a "halves skill recharge of spells" or a "of enchanting" weapon mod, you will not be able to have more than 2 minions with this enchantment at any given time.  Queen Schmuck 13:32, 12 February 2007 (CST)

This skill was origonally nerfed to stop the crazy SR builds in Heroes' Ascent. Now, witht the new SR nerf, Jagged bones could concievably be restored to its former glory without much threat of a return of the SR builds.

in my opinion they should make it 10 Mana and 10 skill recharge to make this a proper elite.

also a crazy idea.... if shambling's skill recharge is 15 then ^ ^
 * animate shambling horror requires a constant supply of corpses. You can't recycle minions like with Jagged. And 10 energy is too hard to manage with soul reaping nerf. But this skill was really fun, only nerf that actually ticked me off. 67.162.10.70 21:02, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

the main problem > too powerful last time... and now it is LAME

That is why we put it to ten so they wont abuse the skill with Quickening Zephyr. if they've put ten spamming it would be a pain if your soul reaping isn't max to 12, the true power of this build can be seen on Shambling Horrors dying with this enchantment on them, creating 2 minions, im just saying if they wont change the elite at least change Animate Shambling Horror's SR to 15.

Really pwns !
I use this on my Rt/N in pve, and it works great!. I tried as the reclaim essense minion bomber (boring) so i tried my own rit MM build, and it works. I use all the 3 spawning power spells, Boon of creation, explosive growth and spirit's gift. I start out with a shambling horror, then cast jagged bones on it, after Feast of the dead. Then i got 2 jagged horrors, also spawning enchantments trigger 3 times, lots of AoE dmg, heal for melee fighters and minions, and energy management. If jagged bones recharge before shambling, i use bone minions, they trigger spawning enchantments 2 timers, + one more when i use jagged bones on one of them. Then i can quickly build up a army of jagged horrors, with 64% more health, causes bleeding, and really hard to kill because of healing from spawning enchantments and Feast of the Dead!. Still i agree in that Jagged Bones could need an update, like faster recharge, but u can still find a good use for it ;).
 * The way you're playing, you'd be better off as a Necro-main, which has numerous minion-heals. Or, take Heroes to do it for you. MoW and Olias are great for this, especially with their own copies of Jagged Bones. If you can handle the mini-management, you can double or triple your damage output with Death Nova. I second that 15-second recharge is overkill. If you need a nice fat guide to help you explore variations on your Minion Bomber build, check out my guide on Guru. Link is in my Name Space. BarGamer 15:17, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Skill description
I just found it interesting that the skill description says 'whenever target undead servant dies'. Does that imply minions can die more than once? ^_^ I was under the impression that dying kind of meant you were dead :P --Wizardboy777 21:18, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * They are undead. I don't really understand your question. --[[Image:Necro_spider2.jpg]] Skax459 16:23, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

They are already dead ....

They are the living dead,the non breathing non thinking but still moving dead flesh.So technically they can still "die" a second death

Jagged X-TREME
What if two necromancers both jagged one minion? Will the second caster overwrite the first? -- Skax459 16:23, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The owner of the enchanted minion gets the jagged, not the person who casts the enchantment. You will only get one.  --Fyren 19:11, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
 * well i don't know what game you're testing on, but it's always been different for me, i constantly steal allies' minions with this. jagged bones, and then taste of death, one less for them, one more for me. not the noblest of tactics, but then again, since when was raising a pointy skeletor about nobility? DNA
 * Image:Jagged master 1.jpg, Image:Jagged master 2.jpg. --Fyren 05:23, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Removing dumb note
"It is possible to have 2 Minion Masters on a team using a number of corpses normally only sufficent for one Minion Master. One necromancer could use a traditional Minion build, while the other would cast Jagged Bones on his own minions. When the minions of the Jagged Bones master die, they are replaced with Jagged Horrors---circumventing the need for the Jagged Bones master to use any further corpses." O rly? This note, at a stretch, is only presenting a suggestion for use, and not any particular useful notes on the behaviour of Jagged. Other notes detail other useful aspects of Jagged (ie it's behaviour when targetted on allied or hostile minions) whereas this does not. Removing. --Foblove 23:14, 29 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Fair enough. It's pretty wordy anyways. Low corpses generally suggest using golem (though you should really use some other type of necro). --8765 23:34, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Won't work with flesh golem?
O rly? what if you used Arcane Mimicry? It would be kinda cool to have a hero using a flesh golem (just for kicks) and to be able to use this and fleshy (since you only really need to use the flesh golem elite when it dies). With both skills, you'd be able to turn one corpse into several minions, which would make minion mastery work in areas where there are limited corpses to exploit, like say, Abaddon's Mouth. Would this work or am I just crazy?
 * You're crazy because Flesh Golem sucks --Blue.rellik 04:53, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Nothing sucks about flesh golem,its at least 8 levels higher than any other minion available,it can do over 200 damage in one strike on an AL 60 armor,i've seen it do it before,also since it leaves a corpse it can be constantly renewed and used with dark bond can help to prevent damage from yourself,since it can reach lvl 26 it also has a higher chance for a critical hit,more armor,and over 600 health.Since it has over 600 health it can also be used as a battery for health with taste of death.The downside to animate flesh golem is its long recharge and if interrupted it will be awhile before you get another flesh golem.4.235.189.245 02:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Doesn't have a long recharge. --Lann 18:40, 15 August 2007 (CDT)


 * It has the longest recharge of the Animate spells. BigAstro 20:07, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

In other words,it all depends on your strategy whether the flesh golem is good or not.If your looking for tank minions and body blocking,the golem is the way to go,however if your looking for damage minions,whether through minion bombing or fiend attacking,flesh golem might not be the best elite for that,Order of Undeath would go better with fiend attacking,and jagged bones might go better with minion bombing.4.235.189.245 02:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Flesh Golem sucks because everything you want to do with minions can be done better with other ones. OoU kills faster, Jagged Bones allows realtively quick recharging with good synergies with other death magic and AotL lets you survive easily and makes keeping minions alive very easy. Flesh Golem is bad, end of story Blue.rellik 04:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yet the word "bad" is an opinion,but you state it like a fact,an opinion can never be wrong or right because it's simply what you think,and aotl is easily countered by degen unless you carry mystic regen,also flesh golem tends to be the best "start-up" minion,wich is primarily what its used for,in battles less corpse supply the flesh golem is useful because it gives you more for your minion spot,i use the flesh golem all the time,and i've been an mm for over 2 years,when the flesh golem is combined with a pure melee minion army they can be better tanks than the warriors.It's hard to say"flesh golem is the worst skill of all!"because it is still quite useful for its higher armor and higher health,not to mention it leaves a corpse,it's not nearly as bad to a mm as "incoming!" is to a paragon,it's still worthy of elite status.


 * Actually, SOME opinions can be absolutely correct or incorrect. Example: "It's my opinion that 2+2=4" is absolutely correct no matter what, and is technically their opinion. Someone else may say "It's my opinion that 4*4=44" is a completely incorrect opinion. But anyway, Fleshy being massively worse than everything else you could take (which is obvious) still can't be proven absolutely like those ones, and so Blue should quit stating his opinions as facts --Gimmethegepgun 19:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Pffffffft, the anon said 'better tanks than warriors' so it's pretty damn clear who's the better player here Blue.rellik 15:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

more than 10 minions?
if you have 10 minions nad raise 2 more say adn then 2 die that have jagged bones on them do they create 2 jagged hoorors causing another 2 to die. would this be some sort of crazy delayed masacare of ur minions turning into jagged horrorS?--80.42.245.170 23:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * i think theres a delay in the time which the minion dies and the horror spawns, to prevent that happening. IIRC Olias' minion count went down to 9 for about a second then went back to 10. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 23:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think if all your minions were enchanted and had less health than a new jagged horror, then yes, they'd all be replaced. BUT that's all but impossible with the long recharge.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  23:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Could always go with Arcane Echo and go out and cap Echo with Jagged Bones as your current elite :P [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 23:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * AND steal another echo with Arcane Mimicry and use a HSR and a bunch of reduce recharge skills.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  23:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

If one were to....
Supposing you cast jagged bones on your minion, and the minion was stolen from you, then killed off, who would get the resulting Jagged Horror? Talk about a custody battle.... --Powersurge360 03:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The caster would. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, probably works same as Life Attunement and similiar skills that you cast on NPCs to limit their damage or whatever before they turn into enemies. :P You'll still maintain / 'own' that enchantment. J Striker 05:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

should reduce recharge to 10 seconds now for pve