User talk:PanSola

Welcome to the talk page of a devout follower of Lyssa!

= Archives =
 * Past mistakes are moved into the /MistakeArchive
 * Other closed issues are moved to /Archive, /Archive2, /Archive3, /Archive4, /Archive5, /Archive6, /Archive7

= Messages =

Sig
Heya Pan,

GW:SIGN is policy now, and it expressly forbids using template transclusion to sign talk pages. Could you change your sig, please?

&mdash;Tanaric 01:20, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've changed my sig in my preferences. As for the old sigs, I don't have a bot to deal with them.  Let me know if I am expected to manually get rid of them, I'll find time to do it. -talk 18:44, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * There's a heck of a lot of them Pan, over 500! Does that mean you'd find time to write a bot or go through them all! Anyway nice to see ya around again :) --Xasxas256 18:50, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I used to run crazier crusades manually q-: -talk 18:51, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Heh heh that's true, see you're not around enough, I forget these things. Also *cough* GW:SIGN *cough* says no sub or sup tags! --Xasxas256 18:54, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * And your user name should be made clear with your sig. (It all reads in the policy ;) ) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 18:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Gah. Testing. -PanSola 19:04, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Sorry, not my fault. *puppy eyes* --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:06, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Oooo, eyes! *gauges them out* -PanSola 19:11, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Oooh the new Pan is crazy, good one! Gem, you could have at least made some kind of funky sig image, you know while you still had eye! How about [[Image:PanandSola.jpg|100px]], it's nice and literal! I don't know how well it scales though, where's LordBiro when you need him! --Xasxas256 19:14, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * My eyes! My eyes! Oh my god, save me! (Where is Boo anyway? I thought he would be the one who gets me) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:16, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Your eyes have been sacrificed to our new goddess!!! (though I remain a devout follower of Lyssa). -PanSola 23:27, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

I'll change them for you later, Pan. Remind me if I forget. --Fyren 19:23, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks. Somebody else remind me if I forget to remind Fr... Fyren. q-: -PanSola 23:27, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Cool, thanks for quick compliance. That whole policy exists because of you, so it's only fitting we finally nailed you with it. Welcome back, bro. &mdash;Tanaric 00:52, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ooo, there's an entire policy for me!!! Mwahahahahahahahaha -PanSola 06:25, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That's right, no laughing either, your reign of terror is over, Balthazar rejoice! --Xasxas256 06:52, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Bal the Brute isn't even fit to kiss Lyssa's toenail! -PanSola 07:31, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Bottage will be delayed while I figure out how I broke my bot. --Fyren 02:23, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok. Well, as long as I don't get banned for it, take your time q-: -PanSola 02:25, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Sortable QR
that is by far the coolest thing i have seen all week. --Honorable Sarah 00:54, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * And I'm surprised nobody has done it on GuildWiki yet, considering we got the Javascript to do it ages ago (before I came back). There's a minor issue with the current version of the script though, making the spacing around the sort button ugly )-:  -PanSola 00:56, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The whole thing also looks better in Chinese, because characters naturally go in the vertical direction. http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/MesmerSkillDescriptionChart  Sadly, most of the data is out of date there, as I don't have the energy to keep it updated. -PanSola 00:58, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Is there anyway we could get a stable sorting algorithm? With such an algo, it would be possible to do multiple level sorts by just doing them one after the other (for example: sorting by attribute and name -> sort by name, then attribute). From the tests I did, this seems to not work right now, which would mean that it is using an unstable sorting algorithm. I couldn't find the piece of javascript implementation we use, but if you can point me to it, I could modify it into a stable sort. --Theeth (talk)   12:55, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes it's possible, it's on my to-do list, but it's much slower so I'm thinking of making it an "advanced" option that is not enabled by default. The javascript I am using right now (which isn't the one you guys see) is User:PanSola/sortable_mod.js.  -PanSola 16:06, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Try this instead of shaker sort. It's a swapless stable quicksort with non-random pivot. That should fix the speed issue of the sorting. (no guaranty on the errorlessness of the code, it's adapted from some C code I have lying around, my JS skills might be a bit rusty). --Theeth (talk)   16:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

static void qsort_data(list, comp_func, head, tail) { pivot = list[head]; ihead = head; itail = tail;

while (head < tail) {		while (comp_func(list[tail], pivot) >= 0 && head < tail) tail--;

if (head != tail) {			list[head] = list[tail] head++; }

while (comp_func(list[head], pivot) <= 0 && head < tail) head++;

if (head != tail) {			list[tail] = list[head] tail--; }	}

list[head] = pivot; if (ihead < head) { qsort_data(t, ihead, head-1); }	if (itail > head) { qsort_data(t, head+1, itail); } }

function qsort(list, comp_func) { qsort_data(list, comp_func, 0, list.length - 1); }


 * I thought quicksort with non-random pivot, by definition, has terrible worse-case performances. O(n^2). -PanSola 17:48, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * With presorted list, yes, it's O(n^2) operations and O(n) storage (recursion) whereas shaker sort's worst case is O(n^2) operations and O(1) storage, but average cases are much better with quicksort than shaker. Moreover, the non-random pivot is rather easy to fix, I just didn't want to hunt around for JS randomize functions. --Theeth (talk)   18:33, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

I've been working with some sortable tables in my User space when I came across the work you've been doing. One thing I have been trying unsuccessfully to implement is marking specific columns as non-sortable. I saw that you have a template/function call { {weapon qr top}} that implements this but I can not for the life of me find the article to look at the implementation. All attempts to find weapon qr top return no results. Where can I find this article? I also read in one of the posts that you have a work-around for the current javascript stripping out template/function calls from header rows (my second problem). Would you also let me know where to find information on that fix as well? Thanks! --  Glamtre   (Talk) 13:55, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Template:weapon qr top sets certain header cells to be class="unsortable", which then gets processed by the javascript MediaWiki:sortable_mod.js. It's not exactly documented, but hopefully the code isn't too hard to understand.  Let me know if you have specific questions.  As for the tag-stripping, it's a very tiny modification used in sortable_mod.js also.  The original behavior is in, but my sortable_mod.js completely overrides it. -PanSola 02:07, 17 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the info. I totally forgot about the Template namespace and I REALLY hate wiki search!  Are there any plans for your updated code to replace the installed class="sortable" code?  I am happy to implement your code in my namespace for testing, but if it works one way for me and other for someone else I consider that a bad situation. -- [[Image:Axe-icon-left.png]]  Glamtre  [[Image:Axe-icon-right.png]] (Talk) 12:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've been working on it. But IE compatibility seems to be a very weird issue. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:45, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

ERROR
THIS IS AN ERROR!!! = ASODFINADOFSINASDF --Dirigible 05:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

JS overriding
Were you able to override the function you wanted? --Fyren 07:49, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Indirectly. I had to override a function higher up the call chain.  I don't entirely understand why, but at least it works right now... -PanSola 07:55, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

CSS changes
You seem to have been making a lot of CSS changes recently. What are you trying to do? I'm not really sure what your goals are, but most of your edits seem to be experiments. This can't be good when you're modifying a global stylesheet :P  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 13:02, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The major changes are non-experimental. The experimental ones are trivial changes (changing order of some lines just to see if MSIE's behavior will change).  After some googling, I've figured out that I'm stuck with a CSS bug in IE7 that I'll have to use javascript to fix. -PanSola 13:39, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Perhaps my understanding is flawed (maybe Fyren could make some suggestions) but I was under the impression that most browsers use a conditional get, so that they only get the contents of a file if it's been modified since a certain time. If this is the case then, trivial or not, the whole common.css file will be downloaded regardless of the change. This was my only concern.


 * And I was curious :) Unfortunately I don't have IE7 but if you're willing to discuss the bug I'd be happy to give my input? Of course, it's unlikely I will have anything to add that you can't find on google ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:19, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * IE7 doesn't not implement "display:table-cell;", so my clever ith-column-hiding trick gets messed up with IE7 users. The issue doesn't show up with IE6 because IE6 didn't even implement Adjacent sibling selector, kinda like if you don't even have access to a car, you can't get caught drunk driving (though you are supposed to be driving, not drunk). -PanSola 16:42, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That's the worst analogy ever :P And that's saying something with the amount of analogies the build wipe debate has produced! But yes, I know what you mean. That's a pain!


 * There's a separate stylesheet that monobook uses for IE7 hacks, according to the source it's "/skins/monobook/IE70Fixes.css?42a". I realise it's not common.css, but would this be useful for monobook? I imagine editing it would involve a trip to see Fyren in his dungeon over at his really long talk page.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:07, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Those in particular don't help. I'm trying to conjure up a javascript fix, but can't really think of how either...  The only other alternative is to implement the correct CSS behavior via javascript on all browsers without using CSS, but that's kinda annoying cuz it's IE's fault and not the other browser's.  I don't want to use javascript to do something I'm supposed to be able to do with CSS. -PanSola 20:52, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Sortable table for collector weps
It seems that the sortable table class has broken the tables... when you try to change the sort, it drops information and then just mucks everything up. I think it's probably related to the fact that they use rowspans for items that share similar statistics, but I'm not entirely sure how the sortable table class works. Don't know whether or not you know what's up with it, just saw you made the addition of the sortable class and thought I'd point it out. --IzzionSona 22:03, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oops, yeah, I forgot some of the tables have rowspans, that does break stuff. Sorry about that. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 22:22, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

cry and dis blow
i disagree with them being related, they may be aoe interrupts but they are certainly not interchangeable, i think the other warr interrupts should go back onto that disrupt page because they are a lot more interchangeable being warr skills. -- Xeon 11:59, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I reverted both since the important part about distracting's related is that they were warrior skills. No one's going to be looking at cry and think "oh, I should bring distracting blow instead."  --Fyren 13:54, 6 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, how does your logic prevent us from listing every single Mesmer interrupt as related skill of Cry of Frustration? Not to mention both articles already have the Interrupt QR linked as a related article, which already pre-sorts its skills by profession.  Thus, listing "other interrupt skills in the same profession" individually seems completely redundant to me.  On the other hand, how does following your logic NOT force us on a crusade that removes the "related skills" of different professions from every skill article?  Your logic ignores the secondary profession, and essentially restricts "related skills" as having have to be in the same profession.  I see Distraction Blow and Cry as related in the sense of "Oh, I'm a R/Me so I can't use Distraction Blow for the AoE distraction effect, but hey, here's a related skill to Distraction Blow that I can actually use!", or "Hey, I'm an W/Me adrenalin axeman already, and Cry of Frustration actually can work better for me because of its larger radius!".


 * Is it really necessary to argue about something like this... Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 15:44, 6 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hm, sorry if it appears to you as if I am arguing. I'm just trying to make sure everyone is on the same page as to what our expectations are.  I don't want to follow what I perceived Fyren's logic to be, if my perceptions are wrong.  Ie, currently I perceive that we should not have related skills of other professions at all, but if I act on that perception, I will go on a crusade that might actually end up being rolled back and lead to another discussion on my talk page.  Thus it is important to clarify if there are additional circumstances that supports the revert of this case, but not support me going on a crusade removing different-profession skills from other articles. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 15:48, 6 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Brevity. There's only three unconditional warrior attack interrupts but there's a zillion mesmer interrupts.  I wouldn't mind putting some mesmer interrupts together as related.  --Fyren 15:47, 6 May 2007 (CDT)


 * That only answered one of the two questions. >_<"  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 15:48, 6 May 2007 (CDT)


 * If you mean about being different professions, my original statement was people aren't going to swap out one for the other. It's not about being cross-profession but being... not crappy, I guess.  I'm definitely not going to swap out distracting for cry even if I'm a warrior otherwise using adrenal skills.  I see that as just as effective as a mesmer thinking "I'm going to have energy problems, I'd better drop cry and bring distracting to save some."  --Fyren 16:22, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * How about a warrior who chance upon Cry of Frustration, and think, "Gee, I wish we warriors have an AoE interrupt"? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:59, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No, because there's still not enough of a link between the two. We're not going to put hammer bash on gale or magnetic aura on half the warrior stances.  --Fyren 20:19, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I would argue that "AoE interrupt" is an effect that is rare (rarer than Warrior interrupts) and non-trivially unique and of sufficient desirable utility (at least in PvE), that I severely contest the claim of "not enough of a link" between those two skills. I see the link between one skill whose primary purpose is AoE interrupt (and secondary purpose as a cheap interrupt) vs another skills whose primary focus is also AoE interrupt (and secondary purpose as AoE damage), as no weaker than the link between Cyclone Axe (which is an attack hitting all foes adjacent to you) vs Hundreds Blades (which is a attack hitting all foes adjacent to your target). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:35, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

One of Avatar of Balth's related skills is Mist Form, because they are indeed quite similar... Nothing wrong with that, but they are from different professions. Silver Sunlight 15:52, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That is my inclination too. And for Cry of Frustration, that is one interrupt skill I would use even if I have 0 points in Domination Magic, because I like it for its AoE effect, and not care about its damage.  Obviously, people who are interested in Distraction Blow also do not care about damage.  Unfortunately, both of them suffer from the drawback that if you miss your primary target then the additional targets won't be interrupted. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 15:57, 6 May 2007 (CDT)