User talk:Sleeper/Builds/N R Stygian Solo Farmer

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Please do not vote on a build until you have actually tested it.''

Favoured:
 * 1) I succesfully killed a few groups of Hungers and Brutes. Got a gemstone on my second group. However the Golems are VERY hard, because making a little mistake, wich happens alot with this build, will make them run after you with run skills blah blah resulting in a full health regen for them. The fiends seem possible, but if you get hit by 1 crippling shot, you're down. Never made it to a Horror or Mixed mob though.Dragon Of Chaos 22:44, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) Took down the entire group twice. Died by a Stygian fiend barrage once (Got to love them.) Replaced muddy terrain with barbed trap to help take down the Stygian golems.--Craero 22:29, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * 3) Directions are very thorough and help immensely. Although it takes a long time to get used to exactly what to do (until which point you are likely to die quite a few times), it is an excellent build which preforms well and does what it claims to do.  The consistency isn't as high as I would like, but I think this is about as good as it gets.  Defiant Elements 01:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * 4) This build works great against the Hungers and Brutes. Over 15 gems have dropped for me so far. I don't waste time trying to kill the Golems, Fiends, or Horrors though, it's not worth the effort. I am pleased greatly with this build and even though it's a bit tough at first it was worth learning and runs great. -Tibincrunch 04:24, 10 January 2007 (EST)
 * 5) Clever and Clean--TheDrifter 19:59, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * 6) Great job!Vanessa 06:01, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Unfavoured:
 * 1) Although this build still works just fine, it's inferior to the safer and more efficient N/A build seen at http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guide/viewGuide/2576.php. (comment by Trenken, moved by Zdain back to being a comment).
 * The N/A build no longer works.


 * 1) Because of the nerf to deadly paradox's effect on assassin stances, the n/a version is no longer viable (suffering wears off before foc can be used). the n/r version is just poor, very poor.

Discussion
The Golems, Fiends, and Horrors are all pretty hard to get the hang of. Golems and Horrors act very much the same though in response to this technique, so once you get one you got the other. Use Natural Stride for quickly getting away and Stormchaser for longer running (e.g. going around the Maw and running up to plant Muddy Terrain). A lot of the trick is in getting the Muddy Terrain in the right spot - I'll screen cap an overhead map where I place it when I get a chance.

On the Fiends - Where you run to is important. Up that hill running as fast as you can will generally get you out of range in time, and Natural Stride is probably the best running skill for them. But yeah, one Crippling Shot is game over.

Also, *always* make sure to select the nearest one when going in to cast. If it's the middle mob, come in from an angle (unless you've dispatched the side completely) and make sure you've got the side mob. They sometimes shuffle order when following you, so you have to recheck your target - otherwise you'll agro prior to casting. I also usually hit my run stances during the cast (except with Muddy Terrain up). Zdain 01:33, 6 January 2007 (CST)

This build is original, difficult, and absolutely amazing.
 * That made me smile :) TY! --Zdain 01:20, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Unless you really want the 10k XP from completing the quest it's better to just kill the northern group of Hungers, then head over to the SW side and kill those Hungers. Another Hunger group will spawn and a Brute group will spawn after that. Make sure you get your stuff before you kill the last Brute group because the Fiends come after that. This is more time efficient and you don't have to worry about trying to kill the harder groups. -Tibincrunch 04:27, 10 January 2007 (EST)
 * You won't get the 10k XP even after killing all the mobs, unfortunately. Another quest item is added for killing the Stygian Underlords when all 6 waves are completed. They *might* be possible with this build, but the 2 Water Tormentors next to each Underlord hurt.

=P I didn't even see that second half when I looked at the quest on here. Well that just re-enforces that it's a waste of time to try and kill the Horrors, Golems, and Fiends. Thanks for pointing that out. -Tibincrunch 08:59, 10 January 2007 (EST)

If your only getting the hungers and the brutes how many do you kill before the reenforcements stop etc. Im not quite there yet but Im trying to get the idea of what to kill. If the hunger/brute number is low then I might take the extra time to kill the rest but if it is high I will be fine. Can anyone approximate the Gem ratio and/or gold ratio? All in all looks like a great build that I am highly interested in trying Ekrin 21:50, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Well lets see...I kill 3 groups of Hungers and 1 Brute group. On average I get 0-1 gems from all 4. As for golds I dont get many, usually one every 3-4 runs. These numbers are just estimates from memory. I will start to record how many runs and drops I get and I will post in a few days. And if you need me to explain more of what groups I kill Ekrin you can PM "Tibin Crunch". I was actually thinking that a N/A might work against the faster groups Soqed Hozi but you beat me to it. I'll try your build as well. -Tibincrunch 16:09, 11 January 2007 (EST)


 * I seem to end up with 2-4 gems per run, and maybe 1 gold drop, and can usually get 1 or 2 chests after all groups are cleared. I've had a couple runs where I walked away with nothing. It's random so anything can happen.

For me, it was about a 4% drop rate after an update increased the frequency of gemstone drops - e.g. 4 for the entire set of 108 demons. Accounting for the initial no-drops, I had a similar rate on smaller sets. Seems about in-line with what everyone's seeing, and it's the same drop rate as Bladed's have with ecto. --Zdain 00:23, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Usage
Can you explain this build some more. I dont see how ou are supposed to kill these groups without any healing. The usage notes are not vey clear

From what I see you dont need the healing because you cast a spell on them then break aggro then repeat. That is part of the description. He noted that "Getting hit once is likely to produce a Necromancer-shaped corpse. Try to avoid getting hit." so you pretty much hit and run (suffering should make it so they dont regen to much if at all.) Ekrin 21:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

You mentioned that you can to the kill the ones in the trench then use CC if you get a good drop but it ends the run but what if you bring a necro hero with sac skills so you can CC back out? That would work right? I just want to get the maximum amount of money per run ;) Ekrin 20:41, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * Good idea. Sure, that'd work. The only problem there is that it's hard to fully clear that mob due to Call to the Torment and the low DPS of this build. The Spirit Tormentors are especially hard to kill with this build without them spawning copies, so you'll need to be really, really fast when you grab your drops and jump back out. You'll probably also want to find a safe place to stick the hero off the compass map prior to killing that mob (and any others) so you aren't cutting your drops in half. --Zdain 20:51, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ya probably a good idea. I forgot about Call to the Torment >.< your right that WOULD make it pretty difficult to nab the drops Ekrin 12:49, 18 January 2007 (CST)

I can only ever get the east group because if I try the others I aggro other groups when I run away :/ What am I doing wrong? Ekrin 15:58, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Probably you're doing it from up above - look at the arrow for running away from the Fiends in the compass screenshot. I kill and kite all the groups from down below around the DreadSpawn Maw. You can run down there past the mobs along the edges without agro'ing them once they've settled.  When you use Muddy Terrain, you can run up above, place the spirit, then run back down below without agro'ing the mobs at all. --Zdain 16:53, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Btw - if that's the case, you aren't the first one to ask ;) I expanded the description of where to run a bit, let me know if it's more clear. --Zdain 17:08, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * That did help a bit but I just settled on farming all of the east then all of the middle then all of the west... If I can ever get past those golem. got down to one then it nailed me :/ something my drivers ed teacher used to say poped into my mind "Make everything a non-event..." I guess that is the key in DoA >.< Ekrin 12:45, 20 January 2007 (CST)

build
I have invented a new build, same purpose and similar necro skills and strategy, but as a n/a, using deadly paradox --> shadow of haste --> spell --> dash to kill goloems and fiends and horrors easy. all my own work mind. see here for the guide: http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guide/viewGuide/2576.php  :: Soqed Hozi :: 


 * Ya know, if you're going to paraphrase this build and strategy claiming it's your own ("all my own work mind"), including using the table I made and contributed, you could at *least* attribute the origin of the build to the wiki, if not the author of the build. I'm fine with it being posted elsewhere and modified, that's within the creative commons license, but rather insulted by the claim that you came up with the whole thing all on your own. Just for that, I'm reverting your earlier deletion of your own comment to this build. BTW - Lightbringer's Gaze is a bad idea unless you are rank 6 or higher on the Lightbringer track, as it will cause the mob to die unevenly. Ah well, just one more reason for me not to ever submit builds to the wiki again. --Zdain 04:00, 14 January 2007 (CST)


 * He didn't take credit. He simply improved upon what you had. I was running your build for a while, and then switched to his and it's a major improvement in every way. You came up with a great concept, and naturally people will find better ways to execute it, which is what was done with the N/A. When he says all my own work, he is referring to the modifications he made.


 * First-time posters are mind readers now? -Ichigo724 21:22, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * If it talks like a sock, and it walks like a sock.... it's probably a very smelly sock. --Zdain 12:21, 15 January 2007 (CST)


 * He did take credit. He not only said he came up with it on his own here ("all my own work"), but he also posted it off wiki with a similar claim. If he had totally modified the build page here, wiped out the ranger skills, and posted a "nya nya this is better" on the discussion page here, I would be fine with it. If he had said on the other site that it was a modification of a wiki build, I would have been fine with it. But he broke the rules. The skill setup isn't what I'm claiming he stole - c'mon, look at the table in his build, then look here under the quest, and at the history. --Zdain 23:51, 14 January 2007 (CST)


 * I know what you're saying zdain. It didn't come across to me that he was intentionally trying to take everything you did and take credit for it. When I came across his post, I simply read it as it might be an improved version of what you did, and that was it. But I wouldn't get worked up over it. This is the internet. People will do what they will. You are the original inventor as far as we know, and someone came along and modified it. It's very difficult to get any sort of recognition or acclaim over something like this. The 55 build is a great example. 99.9% of the people that use it couldn't tell you who came up with it. They don't even care. The only concern of theirs is if it works or not. Who originally created it is unimportant. That's the way it goes in the world of online gaming. But I personally thank you for coming up with the original concept.


 * Just for the record, I'm not even claiming the build is original. I came up with it, but it's only 8 skills and not that difficult a concept - I expect others came up with similar. The text, layout, and table though are obviously copied with slight modifications in his post (in some places, simply rewording sentence by sentence with worse use of the language) which is what annoyed me, along with his specific claim that he didn't copy it. Mostly, I hope he learns something from this, although so far while his user page issued something like an apology he has taken no corrective actions and has only been defensive and denied fault elsewhere, in addition to actually trying to delete my comments on the matter. I'm not worried about fame in a game, but I don't like plagiarism and will speak out against it, even if I have the suspicion I'm talking to a sockpuppet. --Zdain 15:16, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * have to say im totally with zdain on this, and i fully understand how zdain is insulted. i might not feel so strongly if: 1) soqed hozi was less inept at "his own build" 2) the guide that he posted on amp were not such a grossly blatent copy 3) soqed hozi was not so brazen in the intro to "his" build on amp. and i quote: This guide will not be nearly as in-depth as my last guide, although I will be thorough. I have wanted to come up with an awesome solo necro build for a while now, and with nightfall that has now come to fruition. After some careful research into skills, other builds and tactics, I present to you, the very easy to master, Stygian Solo. what is wrong with people? &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 15:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * QUOTE: "other builds and tactics". btw, I never claimed I made the wholething, but the assassin skillset and strategy was all my own idea, I can understand you feel cheated and I am honestly sorry if I have made you feel that way. As a side note, you never see people complain about wiki/amp/guru builds posted on another of those sites even if it is an exact copy, and mine is not exactly an exact copy now is it? anyway, I digress, sos for trying to make my own adaptions to a build, I didnt realise that when you posted on wiki it could only be used that one way. Opps sorry I digress again...  :: Soqed Hozi :: 
 * the strategy was not your own, you copied it nearly word for word... sure, you stuck a few new skills in there, but its more than common courtesy to at least reference what build/builds your ideas are based off. and nearly every build that is posted on one site from another is either posted by the originator or the originator is referenced. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 19:37, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Somehow, that just didn't sound like an apology or an attempt to correct the mistake. How is "All my own work" not claiming you made the whole thing? Bah, I give up attempting to reasonably explain the problem. All you had to do was add a credits line. --Zdain 23:28, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * well i would, but with gameamp you cant edit posted guides.  :: Soqed Hozi :: 
 * No problem. I suspect the admins there will help solve the problem. Notified after your previous post. --Zdain 12:46, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I added the N/A variation to the build so people can pick what ever one they like to use, I did it to get ALL info out there so dont get mad at me for putting his modded copy in there I am NOT picking a side Ekrin 19:05, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * LOL... not a problem at all. Was kinda wondering why Soqed didn't do that in the first place. --Zdain
 * Ok I had to add that though. Dont want to make any long time enemies needlessly now do we ;) Im going to personally test this build out this weekend so I can vote (I finally got to DoA!) Ekrin 19:56, 17 January 2007 (CST)

And its cus of this controversy I have not voted, cus as a N/R I am sure I would vote negative, then send it back to untested...  :: Soqed Hozi :: 
 * If you had voted negative, it would have still been tested. 5-2=3. -Ichigo724 02:47, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * And actually voting it unfavored makes no real sense simply because you think a N/A is better because, in this case, all you are really doing is changing out the running skills so if you like the N/A you like the varient and therefore the build Ekrin 12:51, 18 January 2007 (CST)

It should probably be noted that the combo on the N/A build doesn't actually work. Deadly Paradox does not reduce recharge of Shadow of Haste. If we're going to reference the build, it should probably be revamped into a form that is actually... optimal... Either way, a new build should be posted or at least we should note this in the comments. Of course this becomes a build within a build... But because everyone seems to be fighting about idea stealing I'm not sure how well posting an improved version on wiki would sit. DeathFlame131 01:39, 21 February 2007 (CST)

grabbing drops
too hard to get them, i need a video of how to do this whole thing including the golems, i had a gemstone drop but couldnt pick it up. ARGH!  :: S oqed Hozi ::  16:33, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Reverting my Edits
PLEASE do not remove my comments. I think they stand as an example, showing what you're really not supposed to do with the information here. --Zdain 14:45, 14 January 2007 (CST)

I agree that your voice should not be muffed out, your comments or anyone elses for that matter shoudlnt be removed (not sure how to sign so i just copied what you did and put my name ^_^)~Diago-Frontier-Fs5:00 AM,March 22 (CDT)

Questions
Isn't the Dreadspawn Maw the boss? I think you mean the Stygian Veil. If you look at the mini map, the hub-like area you refer to as the maw is marked "Stygian Veil." Other than that, excellent guide!Crimson Butcher 20:02, 27 January 2007 (CST)


 * I think the entire zone is the Stygian Veil, with the Maw near the center. The Dreadspawn Maw is the boss, but is not a traditional "boss monster". It's the big mouth in the center of the lower area. The Maw stays closed until you've completed the first few quests, then opens and spawns a bunch of the Tendril / Claw things and demon mobs. Here's the wiki's picture with it open - I do the entire solo down around the maw except for planting the spirits. --Zdain 00:40, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Killing the middle group
I'm not quite clear on how I am supposed to kill the middle group I end up killing the side groups until the golems arrive, leaving the hungers just sitting their the entire time... --Dr.D 10:13, 5 February 2007 (CST)
 * Once the Golems arrive (or Horrors), I'd focus on killing them via the Muddy Terrain technique explained in the article. You aren't going to be able to get away with killing other groups while that one is present.  I'd recommend wiping out each side completely before going for the middle group. --Zdain 15:09, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Another Way to Get Drops
The golems are just too much for me. I can kill the first two groups (necros and wars) but those golems are just too speedy, either that or i am doing something wrong.

So i came up with a way to be sure i get any good drops. All i do is bring 3 heros, flag them at the beginning. THen i take out the first two groups, and if there are any drops (usually at least a couple of purples) i unflag the heros and call them to me. THey buy me just enough time to run in there and pick up 3-4 things before i am dead. Not too efficient i know, but it gets the job done for now (at least until i learn better where to put muddy terrain.

By the way, really appreciate the build. Please dont let the poor decisions of others stop you from contributing to the community. it would be a loss for all of us Vanessa 05:49, 27 February 2007 (CST)