Talk:Guide to defeating doppelganger/Archive 2

Discussion
Oppose: The Doppleganger 'quest' is one in itself. Perhaps a better name for this article would work.
 * I think that it just needs a better organization with builds in it instead of a big list of strategies. and perhaps change the name of the article to "builds for defeating the doppleganger" or something to that effect BMW 20:39, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Support... This isn't a 'quest' at all, it's a mission. And reading through the Augury Rock (Mission) page and having to click a link for the Primary Goal is quite tacky. I think this should be trimmed and moved to Augury Rock (Mission). -Auron  18:32, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

"Consider bringing Healing Breeze. The AI currently will not use Healing Breeze for ordinary healing. However, it does use Healing Breeze to counter health degeneration from conditions or hexes." Is this still correct? I've seen Healer Henchies use breeze on me for normal damage, so maybe with all the updates to the AI.. I'll check this when I get home. Marstfu 04:25, 9 December 2006 (CST)


 * Confirmed. Brought in Empathy and Healing Breeze... and because I have a survivor monk, brought in Mending Touch as well as Dismiss Condition (just for my own peace of mind), empty skill bar otherwise. 12 Domination Magic, 12 Healing Prayers, the rest in Divine Favor. Cast Empathy, then Healing Breeze, then stand there for forty seconds (recast as necessary). Dead doppleganger. --Nkuvu 00:19, 10 March 2007 (CST)

On the doppelganger page, it says it has 12 in all attributes except for hammer, sword, and axe mastery. What does it have in those last three? Also, in the guide to defeating it, it says for mesmers to bring physical resistance with 0 inspiration (meaning the doppleganger would also have that). Those two statements contradict. Furthur testing I suggest. Also, can you now bring pets into the mission?- Mrmango 13: 09, 27 September 2006 (PDT)

The Assassin tip using Shadow Form simply doesn't work for a couple of reasons.
 * 1) Setting your Shadow Arts attribute to zero has no effect on the Doppelganger. At zero, that skill should last for only 5 seconds. However, when the Doppelganger cast it, the duration was considerably longer, meaning his attribute points are independent of the player's settings (which is already specified on the Doppelganger's page here at GuildWiki - it mentions his attributes will be set at 12).
 * 2) Despite bringing Shadow Form as my one and only equipped skill, the Doppelganger waited a considerable time before casting it. For the first 3/4 of the fight, we did roughly the same amount of damage to each other. The Doppelganger waited until we were both nearly dead to cast Shadow Form. So, for the last few seconds of the fight, I couldn't touch him while he easily finished me off. I tried this method several times, and the Doppelganger did not deviate from this pattern.

Monk Doppleganger
At least for me dosent this work: Retribution, Blessed Aura, Watchful Aura, Mending Shatter Enchantment, Conjure Phantsmal, Empathy, Images of Remorse

12 Domination 12 Illusion 3 Divine Prayers

I killed him in ruffly 30 seconds and the damage was only of set by me using shatter enchant so it cuts it pretty close.--68.102.128.17 20:03, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Cleanup
I've removed a lot of the individual strategies and the rubbish like "using this can be done in 50 secs" right below a strategy that wins in 15 secs, as well as the referances to canthan elites etc. Hopefully it looks less noobish now &mdash; Skuld 06:18, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Organization
It would be nice to have some actual skill tags showing skill bars and such for the different builds. would we be able to do that? i'm not sure if this is that kind of guide, but many of the builds would be easier to show with just a skill bar and attribute settings shown, and describe a little of what to do. Also, if I get the thumbs up on this, I will make it my primary goal on wiki to clean this up. BMW 20:36, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

New way to be doppelganer for N/Me
Bring No skills with you but have a strong weapon that attacks quicker then his ax. I was able to defeat him under the 50 seconds to get the bonus this way.
 * Couldn't that be said of any class? And besides, the only thing faster than axe is daggers. Swords and axes attack at the same rate. --Vortexsam 01:03, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

As he switches with his axe on close range, equiping skills that trigger damage on attack is very effective.Use Price of failure and reckless haste (factions), and stay close to him and do not attack (same hexes on you of course). He will miss almost all his swings, and get killed quick. Empathy and Spiteful spirit had some nice damage on each attack too. Utaku Mu Dan

Best Way To Defeat Mesmer Doppel?
I think I found the fastest combination imaginable. I killed him in under 8 seconds with this:

13 Illusion Magic 13 Domination Magic 5 Fast Casting

Before entering the battle, I cast Illusion of Weakness on my self just a safety precaution and waited for my health to regenerate. As soon as the fight started, I got off a Backfire right before he finished casting Illusion of Weakness. That did a combined total of 341 (126+215) damage to him right off the bat. He then proceeded to spam the other spells and activating the Backfire. To finish him off, I hit him with Conjure Nightmare and Conjure Phantasm. 8 second victory with over 5/6 of my health bar left. — Jyro X (contribs) 10:45, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Nice.... now if only he dropped a green......--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 20:15, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Duplicate Ranger Tips

 * "Take a Pet if you can as the AI never has a pet. Loading your skills bar with only pet attacks can be an effective tactic."


 * "Set Beast Mastery to the max you can get, bring a pet with you (level 20 if possible), and take only pet-attacks. The doppelganger won't have a pet, giving you the advantage."

Both of the above mean the same thing. I thought I would give someone else the pleasure or deciding which stays and which goes. --SK  06:30, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

I was about to mention this...why isn't it on the main article? I am a ranger, I didn't max out my beast mastery or anything...didn't have all pet skills (just Charm Animal and Comfort Animal) but my cat sure helped alot, I beat it on my first try in under 50 secs. Thanks, Mr. Whiskers!

New Field
Perhaps we should put in an area where people can submit their proven strategies?

For example: / Axe Mastery: 11 Strength: 11 + 1 (helmet) Healing: 3

Time: 9.5 Seconds --Steelhammer 15:01, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

Perhaps. For example it does work, but someone deleted from main article. Necro fast win Blood Mastery: 12+1 The rest cares nobody.

Time: 5.2 Seconds

-- Crowley 08:22, 26 October 2006 (CDT) 15:01, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

Max Swordsmanship and Strength, of course. Precharge all skills with Rage of the Ntouka as you're opening the Rock. Chain the combo. Don't use Frenzy.

Time: However long it takes you to run up to him and swing four times (pausing to let the Deep Wound congeal). &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 06:22, 17 December 2006 (CST)

The above is being conservative. It's designed to try to avoid getting you killed. That makes it unecessarily slow. Hyper-fast version:

Max Swordsmanship and Strength, of course. Precharge all skills with Rage of the Ntouka as you're opening the Rock. Use speed-boosters to make that part take as little time as possible. When you see the doppelganger, charge him with Dash and use Frenzy, then immediately hit the combo. Done.

Time: Just over three seconds? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 06:33, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Prophecies-only, no elites:Use FGJ and Berserker to charge up the combo quickly. Shield Bash will prevent the doppelganger using your combo on you. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 07:07, 17 December 2006 (CST)

On the above: you don't even have to pause to let the Deep Wound congeal. My mistake! &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 13:27, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Ripostes strategy?
I'm thinking Riposte and Deadly Riposte might be effective as a warrrior since the Doppelganger doesn't se a sword and therefore can't get any benefit out of these skills. -The Unrealist 09:24, 29 October 2006 (CST)

About the funniest way i can think of to kill him is using a N/W With Frenzy-> SS-> Insidious Parasite-> Enfeble. Hex and weaken him and watch him take ~90 damage every time he attacks.
 * Frenzy doesn't affect life stealing. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 05:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Some tips fixed
There were numerous tips, ex: Bring shadow form and 0 shadow arts. I removed attributes purely there because they though the doppel had their same attributes. No matter what your shadow arts are, his are 12. I changed this example to "Bring shadow form" (without context in this page of course, it's longer in the article.) Hope this edit was alright. --Blastedt(Talk) 15:34, 9 December 2006 (CST)

That's right, it's attributes are 12. Good job. Mr. Mango 16:56, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Page Restored
I re-pasted the last version before it was edited to display "PARAGONS FTW", but I'm still new to Wiki and not sure if I got it correct. But I hope I did =) Lasers 22:45, 16 December 2006 (CST)

5 seconds N/Me
Spiteful Spirit, Awaken the Blood, Backfire. Curses 17 (after casting Awaken), Domination 9. No skills that do direct damage, just useless hexes and stuff that drains life very slowly like Life Siphon. Cast Backfire first then SS before he's able to do anything. Stand there and you win in about 5 seconds. If for any reason he doesn't die quickly, keep on applying SS. Even if SS is on you, you won't get hurt too badly. 68.183.204.103 02:29, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Healing Breeze
k i went in with a trying to reanact myself as Rurik build to see if i would win or not, i had healing breeze. I was noticing i wasnt winning, so i looked at what he was using, and it was healing breeze. So should we change the note on the guide saying that his AI wont use healing breeze? Pic: http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8405/dopplebreezejm1.png (notsure how to sign) so Angelog

He was bleeding, he uses healing breeze to counter degen. To sign, type in 4 tildes.The Hobo 22:59, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Test these tips?
Out of interest of cleanup (since the page is bit messy), I propose that each of the tips listed should be tested and verified to work. I know some are already tried and true, but you never know what the latest AI change will do. This way we can also strike out some of the tips that don't work; for example I tried the Iron Mist tip, and it's no longer effective.

Also I propose that only methods that grant the bonus (kill in under 50 seconds) be listed on this page. Similar to the vetting of builds, only the fastest and most effective methods should be listed here. Unless there is a special circumstance, such as a method requiring lots of late-game skillcaps or such, then I see no point for putting methods that work but are too slow to get the bonus.

Luckily I have the ability to test most of these myself, but if others could help that would be good also. I'm thinking use the talk page to list "Tested and Confirmed" tips. Entropy 14:20, 28 December 2006 (CST)

=enchant removal=

It doesn't work so good... since the aura you have for entering counts as an enchant he will keep using it on you until you die.

Tidying
I did a little tidying to the article just now (I oddly wasn't logged in when I submitted it, but trust that the recent change was by me). I think it needs more, like as someone above said about testing the builds and only including the ones that are able to get the bonus, but I think the changes I made are a good start. They took me quite a while and were done with good intentions at the very least, lol. I also think perhaps the professions should be listed in the normal order (like Warrior, then Ranger, etc.) since right now it has no actual pattern (the core classes are alphabetical, Factions ones are in no order, Nightfall is in normal order). I'll leave that up to what the general consensus is on it though. :) Capcom 04:54, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Ranger
As has been said many times...defeating the dopple is easy with a Ranger and nature rituals. I found a fool proof way (keep nature rituals on the left...everything else on the right):

Take a bunch of natural rituals as well as Apply Poison (poison) and Screaming Shot (for bleeding). Put Apply Poison and Screaming Shot on the far right side of the bar. Activate Apply Poison before you step on the final stone. Tab target the dopple and fire off a screaming shot...which will apply both poison and bleeding. Keep him poisoned and bleeding the entire time and you will have him dead before he finishes casting the rituals...I incurred absolutely no damage from the Dopple this way. Oh yeah...and I was doing this with my Survivor Ranger. Needless to say I'm happy. Thor79 00:27, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Confirmed that it wasn't a fluke...took a second ranger through...works perfectly...I put 12 points into both wilderness survival and marksmanship.Thor79[[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 04:11, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Dervish in 5 sec
Change to Warrior secondary. Load 3 skills, Frenzy, Healing Signet, and Wild Blow. I used max dmg scythe (bonus dmg irrelevant) and Scythe Mastery 16, no other attrib points used. Start the attack as soon as cutscene ends (do not use Frenzy). Dopple will instantly use Frenzy. As soon as he starts using Healing Signet (after 2 attacks), hit him with Wild Blow (critical hit). He dies (Wild Blow hit did 368 dmg!). Queen Schmuck 17:40, 15 January 2007 (CST)

One skill Mesmer
1. Bring only Empathy 2. Cast immediatelly at the beggining 3. Strafe. 4. ??????? 5. Profit!

Cleanup
I'm feeling adventurous. I think I'll try to rewrite this article myself. ;) Entropy 02:16, 5 February 2007 (CST)
 * You mean... all my hard work making the article look nice and use the proper spelling and pronouns will go to waste!? That's it! I'm leaving! Lol, but in all seriousness, I think this article desperately needs something done. Like testing the strategies, perhaps even going so far as to have a voting procedure similiar to builds. I have a feeling some of these don't even work now. Capcom 02:24, 5 February 2007 (CST)


 * The D/W 3 hit kill sure works! Frenzy, Healing Signet, Wild Blow (tip, use wild blow for third hit, dop will be using Heal Sig while in Frenzy).  Queen Schmuck 03:50, 5 February 2007 (CST)

MONK UNDER 50 SEC
I did it like this:


 * Attributes:
 * Healing 9+3
 * Smiting 12+3
 * DF 6+3
 * Protection 0


 * Health 265(he will not attack you)


 * Equipment
 * Customized max dmg staff
 * Ascetics Ascended armor +39 each part


 * Skills
 * Orison of Healing (1st from left side)
 * Healing Breeze (2nd)
 * Scourge Healing (3rd)


 * HowTo
 * 1) At start cast Healing Breeze
 * 2) Attack him with staff, do like 60 dmg
 * 3) Cast Scourge Healing
 * 4) Keep casting Scourge Healing and using Staff
 * 5) Enjoy 100,000 exp

I killed him on first attempt under 50sec... If u test it and like it pls write me here i will add it in the article--Raelz 16:47, 23 February 2007 (CST)

I just breezed through the Doppleganger in well under 50 seconds with my Mo/E using Word of Censure and a Glyph of Lesser Energy. 2 second cooldown on WoC means you can pummel him down to the ground in about 12 seconds, then finish him off with a Bane Signet, Banish or Spear of Light. I guess you need to go cap it from Cantha first, but it made the whole thing pretty simple. Paulatpingu 18:02, 9 March 2007 (CST)

Assassin + Shadow Form
The tactics as described doesn't work.

1. While Shadow Form, the doppleganger is hitting you while you can't hit him. 2. The doppleganger obviously has high Shadow Arts, since Shadow Form is active on him for at least 15 seconds. That is 15 seconds him hitting you and you not hitting him. 3. Doppleganger uses Shadow Form when he drops down to around 25% health. If you get that far, it'll be easier for you to kill him with an empty skill bar. 4. The tactics that seem to work is that you go in with maxed Dagger Mastery and Shadow Arts. Once doppleganger uses Shadow Form, wait for 3-5 seconds and use Shadow Form yourself. With maxed Shadow Arts you should drop out of Shadow Form much later than doppleganger (5-7 seconds). This time should be enough to finish him once Shadow Form ends on him. Kremnican 15:50, 28 February 2007 (CST)