Talk:Water Trident

Combine with Ice Prison / Teinai's Prison on an enemy warrior for loads of fun! --User:Aptaleon Griefhaven (I did a bit of cleaning on your entry)  213.107.224.24 07:10, 27 October 2006 (CDT) Adamo Nox Noctis

This is my favourite Water elite. AB FUN!!-- S i  g  m  A   15:32, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * Used this in Aspenwood today, kept a warrior on his ass for most of the match. The Hobo 18:26, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Shouldn't there be (mission) after the mission locations? Dark Morphon 16:01, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Easily an underrated skill. Seika Gensou 02:17, 26 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You obviously don't do pvp O_0 P A R A S I T I C 00:36, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * This was FOTM before Icy Shackles. The Hobo 02:39, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Was... Solus  [[Image:DiscipleSymbol2.jpg|19px]] 02:40, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That was fast. The Hobo 03:07, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Why do the call it a "fast moving protectile".
 * Because its a projectile that moves fast. --The Gates Assassin 00:03, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * teehee Craziness 15:03, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Absolutely brilliant logic...139.147.159.223 01:17, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

When used with a warrior with stonefist insignia it could kep the enemy pinned down exactly long enough for the skill to recharge? Zulu Inuoe 13:10, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Probably but not practical, since they have a low energy pool.--Cursed Condemner 22:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * o.O The big difference between a warrior and a caster is the rate of mana regen.  The energy pools aren't that different in size, assuming similar equipment (e.g. 40 for a warrior using radiant armor and a focus, vs. 50 for most casters similarly equiped -- less, but only 20% less).  The real question is, why would you care that the knockdown lasts as long as the recharge?  It's not like you can keep them permanently knocked down.  After the first knockdown, they're not moving anymore.  You have to let them get up and start moving around before you can hit them with it again, by which point, the skill will have recharged even without the stonefist buff.  But keeping them knocked down a bit longer though would be nice regardless. --68.112.142.241 04:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is why you just use Bull's Strike or Bull's Charge. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Related skills
Ice Spear is not related, please stop adding it. Cast time/energy cost/damage has nothing to do with it, it's the way it's used. One's used as a snaring skill, the other is not.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 02:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This and Ice spear have no usage relation at all. This has full range (compared to half), a moderate cooldown (compared to 0), is elite, and is used for the knockdown, NOT the damage the way Ice Spear is --Gimmethegepgun 02:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes because pvp is everything with this game. (end sarcasm) It is perfectly interchangeable for 90% of cases in PvE. --Voidvector 03:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Umm... no, they're not. Reason being: This is ELITE! If you wanted spammable damage, you'd take Ice Spear, and not this (which won't be used for 1⁄4 of the time, because of recharge). The ONLY reason you ever use this is because it can KD. Otherwise you will use Ice Spear for PvE and uhh.... air for PvP --Gimmethegepgun 03:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Quote you "Otherwise you will use Ice Spear for PvE" That is why it should be listed as related, it is a PvE version of this spell. --Voidvector 03:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Quote the S&F page: "be skills which might be interchangeable with the article's skill under many situations or otherwise serve a very similar purpose" They are NOT interchangeable under many circumstances, in fact almost none, because this skill is used for knockdowns, not damage, while Ice Spear is for damage only --Gimmethegepgun 04:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And other skills in the list are interchangeable how? I want to see an ele running up to someone to Bull's Strike them, or even better, an ele swapping this skill for 2 skills (+Charm Animal) to use Pounce. --Voidvector 04:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Those ones can be used interchangeably by teammates. Say you need to be able to KD enemies that are moving. If you're a water ele, you could use this. If not, you can have someone else on your team, a warrior or a beastmaster or possibly even that necro (used for lockdown) do the job with their respective skills --Gimmethegepgun 04:45, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the PvE version is almost perfectly interchangeable without needing to modify a teammate's skill bar. And you still doing the same damage, doing same type of damage, have the same cast time, use same mana. Wah, Look at that. --Voidvector 05:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Except if you need to knock down moving enemies you're gonna use Water Trident, not Ice Spear, since Ice Spear can't KD. If you don't need to KD, you're not going to waste your elite slot on Water Trident, because you can use a much better elite for dealing damage or conserving energy --Gimmethegepgun 05:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * EDIT: talking to Void - Are you seriously arguing ice spear be added as a related skill? If you are using water trident for the same reasons you use ice spear then that's your business, don't press that onto other people who use this for what it's really meant for. Water is generally not needed in PvE anyway Blue.rellik 05:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And Ice Spear's useless in PvP because it's half ranged. And because when they buffed Flare and Stone Daggers they neglected to give Ice Spear any boost at all, so it only manges to beat out the damage once it hits 12+ Water --Gimmethegepgun 05:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Water is all about snaring as far as PvP is concerned, the damage is just a bonus. Anyway eles aren't generally killers from what I've seen in observer, they generally offer some pressure damage and fill out the bar with utility Blue.rellik 05:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Lulz, intarweb arguments. 222.153.227.37 05:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ice Spear = spammable damage. Water Trident = spammable KD with extra damage on the side. Not the same. --Macros 06:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine fine fine, pretend readers know everything. You guys prolly think that readers only come to this page to learn PvP related information when in fact this is not always the case. --Voidvector 07:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hold on. I think I see what you're saying. However, the related skills section isn't supposed to be used to point out "this other skill is better in this situation," it's for showing skills with a common purpose. Water Trident and Ice Spear don't have a common purpose. --Macros 10:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're using this skill to kill things for DPS then you're a moron Blue.rellik 03:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Careful, Blue --Gimmethegepgun 04:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was being careful, I could have said far worse things. Blue.rellik 04:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is exactly one of the problems with this game that also stems to this wiki. Veteran players are expecting new players to know everything when the game itself (especially the skill system) is so different from other MMOs. I am trying to make the wiki a little more friendly for new users while some people here want to make it a reference book for only veteran players. --Voidvector 19:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Except, listing Ice Spear as a related skill is just plain LYING to the new people, and won't help them out at all --Gimmethegepgun 19:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * What Gimme said, why on earth are you using this Water trident for damage, heck the entire water line overall is terrible damage (except Shatterstone and vapor blade). If you're a ele and you want to kill things then use either fire or earth, typically speaking. At least they have big numbers Blue.rellik 05:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Earth is pretty bad damage too (Except for great PBAoE's) Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  05:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sandstorm Blue.rellik 05:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I just did some a test on the Isle of the Nameless with my ele spamming water trident, my warrior auto attacking with a sword, my paragon auto-attacking and my my dervish auto-attacking. My elementalist killed the Master of damage after 43 seconds for a DPS of 16. My warrior's auto-attack killed after 37 seconds for a average DPS of 16, my paragon had a DPS of 15 and killed after 39 seconds, my dervish had a DPS of 21 and killed the MoD after 29 seconds. There you go, a ele is doing less DPS spamming this skill than handi-capped weapon users auto-attacking. Please no more idiotic talks about using this skill for killing things Blue.rellik 05:25, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Uhh with that paragon, how did you kill him faster with a lower DPS? :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Low hits coupled with crits. It's very odd, but theoretically, it can happen. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 21:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how it could happen, really, since DPS is from just adding up the total damage dealt in the time period and dividing by the period. If the same amount of damage is done in a smaller period, then the DPS will be higher --Gimmethegepgun 21:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)