User talk:NieA7/Build:P/W Party Support

History
* (cur) (last) 19:19, 28 March 2007 83.46.214.195 (Talk) (→Variants) * (cur) (last) 19:19, 28 March 2007 83.46.214.195 (Talk) (→weapons?) * (cur) (last) 18:38, 28 March 2007 83.46.214.195 (Talk) (→weapons?) * (cur) (last) 11:27, 25 March 2007 Cursed Condemner (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 11:26, 25 March 2007 Cursed Condemner (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 16:59, 23 March 2007 Eerie Moss (Talk | contribs) (My recent edit claiming to add Aria of Restoration to build template) * (cur) (last) 16:27, 15 January 2007 Scyfer (Talk | contribs) (→weapons?) * (cur) (last) 10:55, 10 January 2007 Gabe (Talk | contribs) (→weapons?) * (cur) (last) 23:46, 8 January 2007 Uthgar (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 23:45, 8 January 2007 Uthgar (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 00:25, 8 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 07:30, 25 December 2006 Ktn (Talk | contribs) (→Jury's still out on this one) * (cur) (last) 14:53, 19 December 2006 Titine (Talk | contribs) (→Using it in PvP) * (cur) (last) 03:07, 18 December 2006 NightAngel (Talk | contribs) (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 15:55, 1 December 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 15:52, 1 December 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m    * (cur) (last) 06:33, 1 December 2006 BigAstro (Talk | contribs) m (→Watch Yourself) * (cur) (last) 05:11, 1 December 2006 SBR (Talk | contribs) (→Using it in PvP) * (cur) (last) 00:38, 28 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 00:37, 28 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→Discussion) * (cur) (last) 19:34, 27 November 2006 Asylum of the Blade (Talk | contribs) (→Discussion) * (cur) (last) 02:54, 27 November 2006 BigAstro (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 02:54, 27 November 2006 BigAstro (Talk | contribs) (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 18:43, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 18:34, 26 November 2006 Skuld (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 18:28, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 18:24, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m    * (cur) (last) 18:23, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→About self healing) * (cur) (last) 18:20, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 18:01, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m    * (cur) (last) 17:55, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 17:52, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 17:52, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 17:48, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 17:47, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 17:41, 26 November 2006 Shady (Talk | contribs) (Rate-A-Build) * (cur) (last) 16:57, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m   * (cur) (last) 16:55, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m    * (cur) (last) 16:49, 26 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) m (Build talk:P/W PvE Party Support moved to Build talk:P/W Party Support: Some people is testing this build also in PvP (however I miss a bit its first romantic name :')    * (cur) (last) 04:11, 26 November 2006 Defiant Elements (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 23:57, 25 November 2006 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (Build talk:P/W Abaddon's Nemesis moved to Build talk:P/W PvE Party Support: Moved to more accurate naming. "Abbadon's Nemesis" is creative, but not necessarily descriptive of the build.)   * (cur) (last) 16:03, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) (→Jury's still out on this one)    * (cur) (last) 14:22, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 10:20, 25 November 2006 62.3.254.197 (Talk) (→Jury's still out on this one)    * (cur) (last) 01:48, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) (→Jury's still out on this one)    * (cur) (last) 01:46, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 01:39, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) (→Jury's still out on this one)    * (cur) (last) 01:34, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 01:32, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 01:30, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 01:28, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)    * (cur) (last) 01:27, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 01:23, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 01:20, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) (→Jury's still out on this one) * (cur) (last) 01:19, 25 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 00:11, 25 November 2006 62.3.254.197 (Talk) * (cur) (last) 17:58, 24 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 16:14, 23 November 2006 Crush (Talk | contribs) (weapons?) * (cur) (last) 13:50, 22 November 2006 Hyperion` (Talk | contribs) (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 03:54, 22 November 2006 Not a fifty five (Talk | contribs) (→Rate-a-build) * (cur) (last) 03:54, 22 November 2006 Not a fifty five (Talk | contribs) (→Discussion) * (cur) (last) 04:14, 21 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 04:12, 21 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 04:11, 21 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 03:10, 21 November 2006 Jimmynice (Talk | contribs) (→Discussion) * (cur) (last) 03:10, 21 November 2006 Jimmynice (Talk | contribs) (→Discussion) * (cur) (last) 03:10, 21 November 2006 Jimmynice (Talk | contribs) * (cur) (last) 18:56, 17 November 2006 Mercurio (Talk | contribs)

Rate-a-build
Please test and vote on [Category:Untested builds] .

Favoured:


 * 1) Honestly this might even be good for pvp (Not a fifty five 22:54, 21 November 2006 (CST))
 * 2) Tried this with Defensive Anthem (don't have Song of Restoration yet) and it works perfectly. A great support character. Chances of dying with this and a monk or two are slim to none. -- Hyperion` 08:50, 22 November 2006 (CST)
 * 3) Solid all round build which does exactly as advertised. I don't know a whole lot about a paragons potential in PvE (I have used them mainly in PvP) but having played it I thought it worked very well.  Defiant Elements 23:11, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * 4) I would probably drop signet of synergy for spear of lightning. I find motivation fine at 12 tbh &mdash; Skuld 13:34, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * Indeed I used spear of lightning a lot, but signet of sinergy gives more focus to the build. Motivation at 15 is a breakpoint for Mending Refrain. Probably it is better to drop Mending Refrain if you want to add an attack skill (otherwise you could break the energy balance) --Mercurio 13:43, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * 1) Did some questing with this build and it's rather good. Nice damage mitigation for the whole party and it's fairly easy to use. BigAstro 21:54, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * 2) A tried and proven build in GvG. Spear of Lightning is also a good variant, like Skuld mentioned. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:25, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * 3) Invredible build...great for party support in PvE and PvP. I set Morghan up as this build and was able to hench most of the rest of the game with only one monk healer in a party of 8. I also use this build in AB with 2 Recurring soul barbs and an Ice Ele, and it is able to keep them alive well. -Uthgar 6:50PM Jan, 8 2007

Unfavoured:
 * 1) No self-heal and unfocused. --Shady 12:41, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * Please Shady are you referring to PvP or PvE? This is indeed a very specialized build. Someone recently changed its former name (was Abaddon's Nemesis) and maybe I now have to write more notes about its role. About self-healing 4 of 8 skills in this build are self healing (read my note down). Again maybe I should add some notes--Mercurio 12:47, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * 1) Unfocused, and I mean PvE. Going full motivation or full command will probably work better. You can leave the tactics shouts to a Warrior (hero or not) - he'll be better able to spam them at a higher level of proficiency. And what's going on with the spear mastery there, u have no spear skills (and shouldn't). So, in a word - unfocused. Paragons rock, don't get me wrong, but don't try to be everything at once. NightAngel 22:07, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Variants
If you lower your tactics to 0 and use finale of restoration instead of shields up you can keep everyone pretty well healed. User:Jimmynice
 * yep this build works well even with tactics at 0. Hovewer in some pve areas to prevent spike damage with shields up is far better than heal them (archers in kourma, or barrage from demons). Also +20 armor to all the team is not so useless ^^ --Mercurio 23:14, 20 November 2006 (CST)
 * Also the spear rate of attack is more than 1 a second and he's spamming chants, he actually has to get that adrenaline so its impossible to spam at 0. 7 is fine (Not a fifty five 22:54, 21 November 2006 (CST))

I dropped signet of synergy (2 monks can take care of that part for me) and replaced it with go for the eyes. This helps keep up mending refrain as "go for the eyes" expires after an attack, plus it is an adrenalin skill (4 strikes) so it helps with energy management. Also, if you really trust your henches (like i do) you can even drop the signet of return and replace it with bladeturn refrain if your in a sword/scythe heavy region. (Asylum of the Blade 14:38, 27 November 2006 (EST))
 * Thanks for the hints Asylum. This was born as a pve build, and of course it is a very good idea to change it when and where it needs. The build posted is what I thought could be the more acceptable for the guildwiki community (for example I almost never used the signet of return). You are very wellcome if you want to add some important variants to it. Last, even if "go for the eyes" relies on command, yours is an instructive note, and I think it could save this build when P/Ws will be nerfed. (you made my day with this hint ^^) Yes, I think they will be. --Mercurio 19:37, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * Hello, In order to expand the range of support to the allies of this build I have changed Signet of Return for Zealous Anthem. By this way Warriors can also obtain energy. 83.46.214.195 14:38, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

weapons?
what about the best spear for this build? I suppose it's not the adrenaline one, since only one skill needs adrenaline... so, what would be better?
 * truly speaking this build doesn't rely on a spear. Likely in a pro PvP context a build like this could even not spend attributes in spear mastery. I don't know an optimal spear for this build, you can choose that one you prefer, and even the adrenaline one: "watch yourself" is a very important skill in this build, and it is worth to be used as you can. --Mercurio 12:58, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * Prayer of The Forgotten is ideal for this build..it seems to fill up all its needs: Energy & Adrenaline. Haven't found a particularly effective shield, but HP +30 & -5 (20%) seems standard enough. Gabe 05:55, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Best spear for this build: wintergreen spear ;) Modded with +energy and whatever else you like. -Scyfer 11:27, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Jury's still out on this one
I'm currently trying this out on a brand new character, mainly to test the boast about the survivor title. So far so good, I've not actually beaten the game yet, and my other Paragon has just swapped over to this build (apart from the 2 restoration chants) it seems pretty good, sometimes a little bit of a nightmare rembering who has the echo on them, but it's pretty good so far, and getting General Morghan to have the same build helps as well, he is spamming the shouts as well, so you can have 2 area's under paragon control with the shouts and echo. I'll update when I get a little further into the game, as I know that there are some master level missions comming up for me soon, and each time I ran them with my other paragon I died numberous times...

Any sugestions on which skills to use instead of the Ballad of Restoration and Song of Restoration for a low level and not unlocked those skills yet character? My character is currently level 8 and I could get most of the skills at level 5, apart from those 2. --62.3.254.197 19:11, 24 November 2006 (CST) I don't think this has been answered, but what kind of armor would you guys recommend for this build? Ktn 02:30, 25 December 2006 (CST)
 * This build doesn't guarantee the title of Survivor. You should be rather expert about gw to aim at it, and know how not to get aggro, how to break it, which fight is lost, how AI of each hero and bot works, and so on. There is a guide somewhere on guildwiki. You should also choose the right skills for your heroes and the right henchman. However, I can confirm I reached it using only henchman healers and offensive heroes (I used a ward against element on Zhed only in the very late part of the game). Maybe using this build also on Morgan is not the best idea: the best defense is often to have a good attack. (and interrupts :P). You are very welcome if you can report to us how Morgan use this build.
 * Well so far from testing in the Factions missions with Morghan in this build (with Anthem of guidance and Zealous Anthem instead of the 2 restore ones) seems pretty good, he does not have the same stats, but is very close to the main character, and he does seem to spam the other hero's with the echo, plus spamming the chants very effectivly. so far the only time A party has died with this build on Morghan was when one of the guys ran into a couple of large groups and aggro'd the lot at once, but that was also while I was still getting used to the way the build works. -- 62.3.254.197 05:20, 25 November 2006 (CST) (I should really create an account...)
 * About the skills to use at low levels, I used some (energy) Spear Mastery skills and Anthem of Flame. Indeed, I switched to Motivation to do some Master level quests in Istan, and I started to use Aria of Restoration before to find ballad. The 2 restoration chants are really powerful. You don't need to do all quests to become a Survivor, and you should avoid the most difficult ones, if you don't know them it is a good idea to check here on guildwiki before to start a quest. (I did them all until the Torment, but I think I dared too much Grenth's patience! ;) Also I think many players reach the title simply farming xp in a safe area.
 * I'm using Angelic Bond and Anthem of Flame on my high level test / getting to know the paragon ways character, my title hunter (and if I get survivor, even low level, this will be that character) is currently lvl 8 and is no where near the master level quests yet - Temple gaurding one and the quest to rescue people that took a coup[le of people from my guild a few attempts.. -- 62.3.254.197 05:20, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * I think Angelic Bond is not a good skill if you want to become a survivor: you must always control the damage you take. I suggest you to try the restoration chants in the build. Also try to use shift+ctrl to call the target without getting aggro.
 * Using this build you will find some intelligent ways to use mending refrain. In short fights, you don't need to spam and to mantain it. Try to cast it on the tank at first, to help a player under pressure, and mainly to counter some degenerative conditions. In long fights you can start from the first player of the team and slowly fill them all. Since this build use a lot of chants, you should not worry about mantaining it. --Mercurio 20:19, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * I normally have mending refrain on myself just as we start a battle, then look at the other players one at a time, if it's going to be a long battle then they will get the echo put on them, I just sometimes get lost with who has it on. -- 62.3.254.197 05:20, 25 November 2006 (CST)

About self healing
Shady noticed the absence of a direct self-healing skill in this build. First, you can notice that 4 of 8 skills in this build are also self healing: Signet of Synergy, Mending Refrain, Song of Restoration,Ballad of Restoration, while other 2 are active defense and can protect also yourself. The Big Assent, Leader's Comfort or, worse, Healing Signet are far less powerful than the skills used. Neither of them can save you from a spike, and Aria of Zeal is more useful: giving energy to monks, it does better work for saving you from the spike. Last, if you try to play to become a survivor, you must quickly break the aggro if you are under heavy attack, or prevent the damage, not to rely on passive healing. If you are often under spike, you should change your strategy and correct your movements. --Mercurio 13:24, 26 November 2006 (CST)

Using it in PvP
Some guildwiki users are testing it also in pvp (thanks guys), so I added it to "pvp" category. More opinions are really welcome. --Mercurio 11:55, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * Tested it with Finale of Restoration instead of shields up, this build works very well, especially with another parangon (ex command) to provide additionnal shouts and chants to trigger Final of Restoration.Titine 09:53, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Watch Yourself
I doubt this skill is still useful from the 11/30/06 Update.
 * Not true at all. It only lost 6 defense and the main purpose of the skill in this build is energy management anyway. BigAstro 01:33, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * After the first nerf this build seems still viable. I think this was a very intelligent nerf to change only the metagame of GvG. (Paragons were abused, and too much armor to all the teams). But I think this build will be affected from many other nerfs... we will see.--Mercurio 10:52, 1 December 2006 (CST)

My recent edit claiming to add Aria of Restoration to build template
Oops. It is in fact adding Song of Restoration.

Shield
No shield is mentioned under the equipment section and it would be nice if you added one, even if it's just, "Use any max motivation shield because some newer people might think you do not use one (don't know how but it's possible).--Cursed Condemner 07:27, 25 March 2007 (CDT)