Talk:Game updates/Archive11

WTF?
I just logged on and the first thing I saw was that we have lost favor... last time I checked we had almost 3 WEEKS of favor... wtf? X Deity X  15:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Its at 120 now....wtf? Lord of all tyria 15:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Having a conversation right now about this in Remains. Not a clue what is going on with it... Just jumped on right now to see if there was any word. We were at over 35,000 minutes Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  15:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A-net fucked up good. Lord of all tyria 15:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC
 * fucking a-net reset the dam clock;
 * damn--Carmine 21:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * What? so you relay think that ArenaNet is going to let people have 3 weeks of favor? RT | Talk  16:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Evidently. I dont think its very fair that people's achievments should have been for nothing, so im going for them bringing back out 3 weeks. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 16:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that the favor was earned appropriately. Its not like we used some glitch to get that favor... So there is no reason for them to have zero'd it.  Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  16:26, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree -{[ PUL ]}- 19:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

But does the name of the pg appear when the title is maxed?? --:-) GlennThePaladin (Talk,Contrib) 20:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * PC?--Carmine 21:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Random comment: We have 27k minutes already again. We'd have about half a year of Favor, if not more. It's no big deal, imo. --- -- (s)talkpage 12:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to follow up on this whole favour mess, this is what Gaile has said on her talk page: "As you may be aware, players accrued a substantial amount of Favor of the Gods during the weekend of January 18 - 20. The numbers actually exceeded the coding ceiling, because in truth we never anticipated that players would accrue so much Favor in such a short period of time!" - Tasiden 10:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

R.I.P IWAY
Hehe, IWAY in HA=nerfed ;) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.224.199.24 (contribs).


 * well, its certainly much weaker now. Fear Me with a 6 second recharge...ouch. Also bones a team build of mine, and those assassins. &mdash; ~ Soqed Hozi ~  19:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fear Me Flurry 'sin ftw :( --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 19:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * er...IWAY has been dead a loooong time. Ten times over.  It's dead.  Gone.  Kaput.  Now IWAY will be used as it was meant to be...rarely, and with moderate effect.--Carmine 22:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No, IWAY was always meant to be a gimmick. Now it will probably lose even against nub random/balancedway. &mdash; Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] &mdash;  (contribs) 20:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the update leaves iway relatively ok. There are more problems with it than just fear me, whose recharge is now the same as steady stance, its barely a nerf to the intended target. Lord of all tyria 20:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

any guesses on what will happen with the "lunar festival" (chinese new year, february 7 this year)?
i'd really like to see the lunar festival repeated this year, it was awesome last year (mini piggies FTW! or hopefully this year mini rodents) Omnipresentgnome 04:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * i did a little digging, Gaile Gray says that it's near 100% chance for the canthan new year to occur this year, so i answered my own question...mini rats FTW! Omnipresentgnome 05:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I was not there on the previous one. But a friend gaved me a little piggy.. TulipVorlax 01:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * YES! About a million little rats this year![[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  01:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I prefer big rats. <_< [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  01:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Then get on a ranger and you can have a pet rat AND a minipet rat. Assuming they do minipets this year, of course.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  01:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that Mini Pigs are worthless now, I hope they'll do with rats what they should have done last year- make them available only from fortunes, instead of giving one to everyone every two hours. D: [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 10:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Lag issues
Anyone else getting horridly large lag after this update? I know a few people in my guild have it, but ive been getting up to 145k ping spikes, and trust me, my net plan isnt cheap AND the only problem is on GW not on IE or anything else that connects to the net. 24.197.181.242 01:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes I do, and lots of people i know too. I guess this will be fixed soon eh..Paul revere 02:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

User Agreement?
Anyone notice how the last couple updates you have had to re-agree? Anyone else think something is fishy about that? I dunno, I just think its odd.
 * Yes, it's definitely a conspiracy. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not saying conspiracy, just... weird....
 * It happens from time to time, guess either Anet want to have players re-affirm their acceptance of the EULA, or they find a need to edit the agreement. Would be nice if there was a "what's changed" section between updates. (PS: Please sign your comments, just end your line with 4 tildes "~") --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, if you check my page and read the pictures caption you will see why I didn't sign Cilero 04:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of all the updated since I started playing, this was the only update I needed to Agree to the EULA again...Maybe they make people re-agree if they are reported (but not to the extent of being banned)? Khazad Guard 05:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess last time only some had to re-agree, and actually come to think of it this time I didn't have to re-agree.... I still think the re-agree thing is usually done when something either in game changes or something happens surrounding the game (aka the mod questions from before for re-skinning weapons and such) Cilero 05:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think being reported is the case. I didn't have to re-accept for this update, but I did for the one immediately prior, and I've never been reported to my knowledge. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Resetting indent, and ya, felix, i had to accept for the one prior but not for this one, and the ones that didn't last time seem to have to now.... did someone check the new eula? Cilero 06:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe the different territory data centres had the EULA file updated during different game update builds. Ie, sounding like perhaps the US servers were changed one game update earlier than the EU ones, that sort of thing (possibly there's an American / European different versions of the EULA, ie to cover different spellings? Like there would be a language-specific version on the other territory servers, so possibly there's a difference between those two as well). --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 11:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty much any change to the EULA would cause you to have to get it resigned, in accordance to the law. All parties must accept the changes for it to be legally binding. So it could have been spelling, or they changed some wording around. I skimmed over it, and nothing was suspicious so I signed. No worries. And no, you wouldn't have to resign it if you've been reported. If you were reported, it means you've broken the EULA, so why would you have to sign it again? - Tasiden 22:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sony makes you accept every time you log in with EQ2 <font color="FF0099">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  22:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Basically any changes in the EULA force you to re-accept it. Usually these are just the addition of new campaigns, but sometimes other little changes too. See this for an official change log for the last update. -- (gem / talk) 23:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahhh, perfect Gem, exactly what was needed (added that link to the game update article). Hopefully Anet / Gaile will make this a policy to provide a "what's changed" whenever they update the EULA, eliminates any "arm waving, gnashing of teeth" over perceived conspiracies etc :) --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Gem. Yea, I noticed that they had added in the bonus mission pack to the list of games there. I guess since everyone can access it now, they should add it. LOL - Tasiden 10:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Lunar Fortunes
Observed -- Lunar Fortunes are now named 'Lunar Fortune [Year of the Pig]' Not known when the change was. Yamagawa 20:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, they're probably getting ready for the new Canthan New Year then. We can most likely expect Lunar Fortunes to reappear, but most likely with new rewards (at least, you won't be able to get Minipigs from them). Nifty. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  21:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So, the new Lunar won't stack with the old ones ? TulipVorlax 00:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That would seem to be the case. So good excuse to use em up and clear the inventory space. Keep in mind, these are not the same as Lunar Tokens (which can be held in reserve between events that use em), there doesn't seem to be any point hording these Lunar Fortunes. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the name change was to make sure people don't go selling "stack of this year's Lunar Fortunes! Get them now before the event officially starts!". Seeing as last year's fortunes had a really small chance of dropping a Mini-Pig, this year should have a Mini-Rat. If you couldn't tell which fortunes had which, it might make it silly to buy any for that purpose. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  05:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Sacrifice
in the new update my icon for sacrifice has turned into a red circle, was that there already? Bored 19:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. Must be part of the latest update. Spaggage 19:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Some nercomancer skills now cost only 1 energy. Examples: Blood Renewal, Blood is Power, Dark Pact. --:-) <font color="Orange">GlennThePaladin (Talk,Contrib) 19:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * BR is so much more leet now. And yes, sac icon is new. Zefir 20:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What the fuck... I don't think this was meant to happen ,really... But oh well :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 Energy spells?! ANet has broken standard Guild Wars procedure! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!! Zulu Inuoe 20:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They're free. Regeneration, much? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * OMFG BEST UPDATE EVAR!!!!!11!!!!one!!!!1!! 70.51.138.207 20:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeeeaaaaah...its cool sure but godammit Anet do sumthing more about the rits than just decreasing the PvK recharge time by 5 seconds, I mean come on! Majnore 20:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They nerfed mystic regen. I don't know whether to be happy or sad, also, yay one energy spells.  ~Phlanx (a necro)
 * Rits are still overpowered in many ways. Are you still complaining about FOTM builds that died months ago? ...years ago? Try a new build; you might like it.--Carmine 20:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, sacrifice can still kill you despite now being part of the "cost" of the spell --Gimmethegepgun 21:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

lolwut?
@ 1 energy spells --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest  20:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree. Awesomesauce tho--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 21:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support builds with masochism? Using 1 cost blood magic spells doing damage while using heal party/ LoD?--Alari 21:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * lol@LoD (10 second recharge FTL) --Gimmethegepgun 21:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * F***ing seconded! --68.117.130.197 23:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

My Dark Aura Toucher lives again!! even if he does still suck a bit Araziel 21:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was a great idea- low cost spells I mean. NEXT, WE WANT 1e FLARE! CASTER DMG LIVES ONCEMOREEE! On a related note, vampiric spirit. Ehehehehe....
 * Vampiric Spirit doesn't work with Touch of Agony or Wallow's Bite, since they're skills, not spells. --<font color="Green">Curse You [[Image:Curse You Sig.png|16px|Curse You]] (talk|contribs) 23:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Dark Pact. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 23:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not melee. Why have a caster go melee if they don't have to, unless they're a gimmick sac build. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 23:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Why use Vampiric Spirit if you don't go melee? Durr, we we're talking about that particular skill --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 23:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why use vampiric spirit, tbh. With that particular skill yes you could use dark pact, but kiting pwns j00 and you'd be better off a death AoTL Dark Aura build. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 23:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm not the one bringing it up. I was just fuelling :P Anyways, I went out with a physical way team and a Dark Aura bomber as per this, but Masochism must be taken out. It overloads your Energy bar :O Anyway, it pwnd --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 23:31, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah what's Anet smoking? First they nerf soul reaping, then they nerf energy from spirit (after months when people suggested it originally), then now they have 1 energy spells. The recent changes are pretty drastic, if this is really "balancing" then they must have got things extremely wrong before eh? They're practically introducing new skills, not "fixing old ones". 118.100.20.89 15:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Reducing energy gain and then reducing energy costs is not the same as keeping the original huge energy gain.  For a pure Necromancer, it has the same overall effect, but for, say, a N/E, it's hugely different, and a nerf compared to the way things were. --68.187.144.197 16:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They should probably explore other energy costs too. Now that they've broken out of the 5,10,15,25 tradition, why not explore others?  For example I've always wondered why there weren't 20e skills for those ones where 25 just seems too expensive for the benefit, but 15 would be too cheap.  Shadowlance 18:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

canthan masks?
What costs were "corrected?" It says the cost of two was changed. And WTH!!!! 10 sec recharge on LoD? They nerfed all party-wide monk heals!!! Good bye Ursan... RoseOfKali 21:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

No1 seems to care that the nerf to mystic regen has nerfed 55hp monks...this means only 9 regen, whereas they were used to 15...so now you have to bring other forms of regen, to counter bleed/poison. Alternatively, go backto the old HB 66hp monks..&mdash;<font face="Impact"> ~ Soqed Hozi ~  21:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Given that 55hp monks predate Nightfall, I find it hard to believe that any change to a Nightfall skill can "nerf 55hp monks". Nerf some particular builds, perhaps, but not "55hp monks" as a whole.  If you can't make the minor change to your build to compensate, just go play something else until someone posts a new build somewhere for you to mindlessly ape.  --68.187.144.197 16:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Saccing update
Hmm, does the change of saccing to a skill cost mean that that amount of hp is required before you can use it? ie. to prevent saccing oneself to death Araziel 21:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, see above --Gimmethegepgun 21:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah yes, thx Araziel 21:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

problem connecting
Any1 else can not connect to gw on the connecting to areanet thing, or is it me?--Murderer Bomb 22:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The reconnect after disconnect? Its happened before, its possible its not just you. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 22:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

No not that. Its happened today, and whenever i go to load gw, it loads, and than when it says connecting to areanet it says something like: You can not connect to areanet at this time. Please check your internet connection and try again later. --Murderer Bomb 22:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Mystic Regeneration
The skill is not nerfed, 55'ing is still very possible, i'm fighting lvl 24's with poison and bleeding and i'm doing great. The real problem with the fix is actual dervishes that use the skill, because when they get the heaps of conditions and they rely on their enchants to get them through, they will die, almost every time monk or no monk. Another problem is why even cap it at 9 just 1 below the standard cap? 12 would make more sense because in reality you get only 2 enchants (not counting mystic) to fuel the healing...Riff Ibanezius 23:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If you die solely because of some Conditions, you shouldn't play GW. And if your Monks let you die because of those Conditions, I'd swap em for Lina (or just my own hero, for that sake >.> ). Besides, who relies on 10 regen (pre "nerf") to heal him completely? That's just insane to ask. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 23:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I knew this was coming for some time now. Basically, they are trying to hurt the players that use this skill with minimal points (about 3, just enough to get 2 regen) then load up on enchants to get something like 12-14 regen.  We do this all the time in Kryta hard mode farming.  It wont hurt players that actually invest points.  Dervishes can still use this skill to mostly full effect with 13 in mystic regen, to get that +4 regen per enchant.  I think the nerf could have been alot worse... Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  00:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally use it with 8 points and three enchantments (counting itself), and that was my main healing source; still works, obviously. the real ones hit were builds that used a ton of enchantments to reach the high regen with a minimal investment.
 * I don't even see the need to go as high as 13 Earth Prayers; half the time you're just getting one extra pip out of it all, and even with poison on you, it's still positive regeneration. Your foe still needs to beat your DPS by quite a chunk to win. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  00:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Mesmer rape
God, Izzy just doesn't like the poor buggers. Mr IP 03:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh, he just hurt some builds, luckily there's still a ton more that's useful. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  06:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He hurt pretty much every shutdown pvp build. No other non-elite interrupt comes close to pleak.  Okay, so maybe it should be toned down, but what it is now is ludicrous. Rette Alarix 16:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Mesmer rape? Nty, I'd prefer Ritualist rape. Anyhow, Izzy's not nerfed EVERYTHING of the "poor buggers". Have you even looked at Physic Distraction or the infamous Enchanter's Conundrum + Shatter Delusions combo? Still quite fucking effective. -Yikey 16:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * ok take it lil easy ppl, still Ineptitude is worth it, if u cast it on an attacking target he wont be able to stop and wait 4 secs for it to disappear, he will still get the damage and the 10 secs blind, why the hell is 6 secs lower duration of the hex that is meant to be ended anyway such a big deal really?! U just have to be more strategic with it, and when it comes to Pleak it was frikkin needed!! - up to 20 energy for a non elite with 12 sec recharge is NOT balanced, NOT! period. Majnore 17:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Mesmers are definitely "poor buggers", most nerfed class in the game. And they always had to be strategic with their skill use so I see no reason to change clusiness and ineptitude AGAIN. Mr IP 02:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You obviously don't GvG then Blue.rellik 04:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * GvG isn't the entire fucking game buddy. 'Sides BS is far more annoying. 222.153.229.8 04:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You know what doesn't give a damn about BS? Or just about anything else either? And spams Eviscerate with a scythe? AoM, that's what. Now... why is Izzy continually nerfing poor Mesmers into the ground when AoM is STILL running rampant? --Gimmethegepgun 04:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Zaishen Challenge bal faction cap changed?
So, due to the speed you can farm some bal faction with Zaishen Challenge I pretty much grind away my 2k faction each day. But after todays patch I was able to get 2500 faction instead. (as you get 260 per run, this meant an extra 2 runs). Can someone else confirm? --NurseMyth 22:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats all you get? I get 4-5k a day usually when I go RAing.--Alari 03:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * RA doesnt have a faction cap on it, derrderrderrrrr  24.197.189.18 03:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh huh......anyway, I'll go see if I have a boost on my faction cap. Mr IP 03:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't get a 500 more. Mr IP 04:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for checking, I'm sure I missed something then.--NurseMyth 07:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

party animal
are previous popped items counting towards this title,or set afresh?


 * You start with 0 points whatsoever. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 09:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * All players start at 0 points. If you've already wasted your items, you'll need to get more. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  10:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * omfg taht iz liek so sucks anet iz so fukkin phail y r dey so unfair omg!!11
 * Now that that's out of the way, I'm sad because I had over 200 Snowman Summoners from maxing the Deldrimor title... --Macros 04:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ouch! Sadly, I think quite a number of ppl churned through stacks of Snowman Summoners, tonics etc over the last Wintersday festival due to ever diminishing storage space and figuring they had no use beyond the novelty. Same thing happened with the Sweet Tooth title and many of the other titles, some people got "caught out", others benefited from having squirreled away the required items etc. Commiserations, at least there's comfort to be found in knowing others are "suffering" the same fate. :) --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

So sad now....
I'm very sad they fixed the pathing bug in Dragon's Lair. Now I can't sit outside the zone and offer free gold items to people who open a trade (every now and then someone would find the hole, and I'd give them something). Now you can't get through! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.111.15.89 (contribs).
 * I know, /sob. I miss seeing the end of the world in the lit-up Tombs. Oh well, at least we still have Aurora Glade (or somewhere around there) glitch--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 03:24, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's on in ToA that hasn't been closed, though I don't know the secret.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  03:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know if there's an "end of the world" part in ToA, but I do know that you can almost jump off the cliff opposite the entrance. Just scrape back there and you'll find it. Oh wait, now I remember. If you do that and then zoom in all the way (viewing from character's eyes) and look at the slope you'll get it --Gimmethegepgun 04:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)