Talk:Hard Mode/Archive2

Random Nonsense Talk
Need someone with protector to go out and enter missions, look for hard mode, etc, please. &mdash;Blastedt 17:42, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * My ranger almost has Protector of Elona...just need 2 more missions. I'll check back later. - [[Image:Smoke_Trap.jpg|19px]] Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 17:52, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * ok. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 18:08, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * I don't see it anywhere (I have Protector title). Looks like it'll be implemented later. - Swedish Cow 18:23, 14 February 2007 (CST)

I went to a number of npcs in missions after the update and also Gaile Gray mentioned that it wont be here for at least a week.

The update a few minutes ago took out the "Guardian of" title completely, reverting it back to how it was...looks like they are waiting for another update =/  -  Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 21:32, 14 February 2007 (CST)

So, is there anything to tell about the "hard mode" or are we suppose to see our titles degrade for a week ?

Gaile also said Hard mode would contribute to Maxed sunspear title.DVDA 02:01, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * She also mentioned that it'll be related to maxed Lightbringer title as well. --Warwulf 12:15, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Probably giving points to titles related to the mission. Randomtime 13:10, 6 March 2007 (CST)

It's baaaack... (well the "Guardian of" thing anyway)

Gale said on 3/16/07 that we would find out what hard mode is on monday 3/19/07
 * ... and then on 3/19/07 she said we'd find out on 3/20/07 >_> 84.65.39.134

The info is Here! Sounds pretty awesome, I just hope my guild will do itDev Update. Someone should update the page.--Geon Arcan 13:21, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

OK, sounds interesting, but... if Hard Mode is going to be game-wide, does that mean I have to replay EVERYTHING? I can face several sets of co-ops (multiple characters, multiple campaigns), but not the damn Quests too.


 * Maybe it'll work like that. Maybe you'll just need to toggle it on or off or every town and outpost will have both normal mode districts and hard mode districts that any player can move between. I hope they'll nerf the foes in the non-hard mode version of Domain of Anguish, making Razah easier to recruit. -- Gordon Ecker 00:58, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I Interpreted what Gaile said as teams will be able to choose the difficulty level prior to commencing missions. Which was what I guessed even before anything was said. Come to think of it, if it's "game-wide" it's not really a "mode" now, is it? --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 01:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It's just that this sounds terribly familiar to D2 players, which had 3 difficulty levels and 3 corresponding titles for beating them -Slayer, Champion, Patriach. I do not see how they can award prestige titles like Guardian and Vanquisher if you can run around in Normal mode and just opt to do the co-ops at your chosen difficulty level. On the other hand, party caps in the early stages of the games are going to present a real problem, yet if they lift those it will cheapen the game experience. I guess we'll have to see how it al pans out... just hope to goodness they do not reset my fully explored maps!

Thinking a bit wider though: Does anyone else get the impression that Guild Wars is starting to enter 'auto-pilot' phase? With all this replayability being brought in, it bodes ill for new content. Prehaps C4 really will be the last.


 * Considiering that GW has no monthly fees it's more of a plus than a minus. Replayability keeps old veterans playing the game and hence induces them to give ever-positive reviews. It is enticing to new players who know that they have a long, long adventure ahead of them.
 * If this was WoW or something, where replayability = more money for Blizzard, then I would be concerned. But because ANet does not serve to significantly gain financially from reviving older chapters I can see no harm for future content. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:38, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * According to PC Gamer Eye of the North is the last campaign before Guild Wars 2. -- Gordon Ecker 01:45, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ah, so it's out then? I agree that revitalising old content is all good. What I meant was that they wouldn't make us go back and play chapter 1-3 all over again if there was multiple campaings in the pipeline. No more need for speculation now of coure ;-)
 * Guild Wars: Eye of the North is not gonna be a campaign. It's gonna be an expansion, so you need to own at least one of the previous games to play it. So techicly, Nightfall was the last campaign before GW2 - Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 11:00, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I guess they are sort of using this hard mode update to do two things make the game more enjoyable to noobs with out the expense of veterans amd to buy time to figure out exactly where the story line of this game is going I mean what evil is left to be vanquished after abadon has kicked the bucket.

Add Time
From my alliance i've heard that Gaile Gray said that Hard Mode would be inserted around in a week, did anyone who was there and the same moment can confirm this? 213.124.168.231 03:15, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Gaile said that "James said it was about a month away" on 27. March: http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~enevold/GuildWars/GaileLog27Mar07.jpg &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   03:29, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

New Skills
I suppose for monster articles there will be two skill bars listed, one for normal mode and one for hard mode? - Skakid9090 20:10, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That should work. -- Gordon Ecker 21:01, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Sunspear skills?
Please, what are those sunspear skills they're talking about in the article?! Thx - Doom


 * No-one knows yet, except for Anet. Just wait for hard mode to be released. It shouldn't be that long anymore. --84-175 (talk) 05:34, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Gaile Announcement
This link here shows that Hard Mode will be released next week, theres also another picture in the thread talking about HM being a lot more than we think kicks66

It's close!
I guess it's official then. It'll be released atleast on April 20th, if we are to trust Guildwars.com - Check the first header: "This weekend you will receive double Sunspear and Lightbringer points in both Hard mode and regular gameplay." Copper Elf 15:15, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * /cheer. Lord of all tyria 15:16, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

I noticed that too and it kinda struck me. Maby it is already there. I am making a new char to check it out :p Drake


 * It's definatly not there, check update notes, there wasn't a download for me after I started client after it was reliced, it's not there last update, I fully downloaded last update using -image, so there's no way it could have slipped through. Although I'm not supprised if they have put most of it in the game already, so theres not that big a donwload when it does come. Randomtime 16:13, 17 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm guessing that it will be released Thursday. That's all it is, a guess, but back in the olden days, Thursday was the day updates were generally released.  --Rainith 17:01, 17 April 2007 (CDT)


 * If it were released Thursday... and we got a day to fool around... and then we got double lightbringer and sunspear points... and we could now max sunspear points... I think I would be happy. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:41, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah that'd be awesome. Maybe I can finally get to a higher lightbringer rank. DoS farming ftl Copper Elf 01:29, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Wait, but there are no rezzing npcs in DoA...-Silk Weaker 04:26, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I think he meant Domain of Secrets. -Spot 13:27, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah I did. I hate the +40% energy thingy! Copper Elf 14:23, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Very Soon
Well it was said within a week now if you read this weekends event at www.guildwars.com you will notice they say that it will count in hard mode too. but wait im pretty sure hard mode hasnt been released yet :P so we can expect it within the next few days. and for sure by friday :)


 * Yup Copper Elf 14:23, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

'most likely within 12 hours' - gail gray Pulpulpullie 17:18, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Freaking....sweet!!! Hopefully, this will keep my interest in the game up until GW:EN comes out, and maybe that'll keep me busy until GW2! ~Avatarian 86 17:41, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Within 12 hours of when? Does someone have a timestamp for that quote? -- Gordon Ecker 17:42, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Update the page
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/hardmode/ -- Peej 13:15, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Check this link out


It provides new info on hard mode that someone could put in the hard mode wiki page :)
 * Oh. My. ---. God. @ Learning. Any. Unlocked. Elite. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 14:02, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So when a-net makes cantha/tyria/elona skill hunter it will be the new protector title for koabd, yay....--Blade [[Image:smallscout.png]] (talk|contribs) 14:22, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I hereby predict that non-elite tombs will be as rare as rollerbeetles, and elite tombs will be as rare as pandas. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 14:56, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Tomes. :P  Spelling FTL.  ;)  --Rainith 16:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Luckily, BlastedT is wrong on both, as neither normal nor elite tomes are rare at all from what I have seen. Queen Schmuck 04:51, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Vanquisher FTW. Must farm....... Works well with extra xp and gold.... Maybe I'll be able to get that vabbian armor for my derv earlier than I thought...
 * This definitely isn't all... Something else is hiding, I can feel it. Anet has a sucker punch they're going to pull on us later. Spoiler related skill, anyone? Though I'm kinda hoping they save that for GW:EN... --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:05, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I have obtained prot of Tyria and ELona on four different chars and still don't feel the impact... Readem (talk *contribs ) 17:18, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You won't for at least another few hours. You'll know when there's a new build and it takes a few hours to download. --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:33, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There is no impact in fact, the Protector title is seperate from the Guardian title track now. I actually GAINED progress towards Kind Of A Big Deal thanks to Legendary Cartographer, huzzah. -Gildan Bladeborn 00:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Main Page?
As more of this popular information becomes confirmed/added to the game, maybe a link to this article would be appropriate under the DoA link off the Main page? --Dragonaxe 17:28, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

PARTY IN GREAT WALL INTERNATIONAL
To celebrate!! &mdash;Blastedt 18:17, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * meh, nvm &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 18:18, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The party is in The Great Northernwall, American district 1. JOIN! - Chrisworld 20:22, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * wow no love for euro's?

Removed speculation tag
I removed the speculation tag due to the fact that Hard Mode has been confirmed. Alreajk 21:04, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Shing Jea and Istan Greens
I'm wondering what will be of the greens in Istan and Shing Jea in hard mode since the bosses will not be such a low level in it. I will try to get around to it and farm Tahkayun Tsi but I might not be able to do it until later so if anyone finds out later, feel free to post it here if I haven't already. Soultwister 21:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm trying right now but it is proving difficult, since the Monitors can heal like crazy (Shield of Regen!) and Tahkayun Tsi is level 27!) Soultwister 22:47, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I was able to get the Deathkeeper of off Yunlai Deathkeeper in Sunqua Vale last night in Hard Mode. It's stats were exactly the same as the Normal Mode version. Cerebus

Thanks, thats pretty stupid, fighting a level 27 boss only to get a weapon that does not have any use at all, other then being good for newly made characters. Soultwister 18:37, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Hard Mode and Quests
Question: what happens if you enter an area in Hard Mode and you have a quest such as Army Life active? Will Joe and Old Mac be L24, or still <10? If they get increased level, that will be fun...Joe with Defy Pain, Old Mac with Dev Hammer xD (T/C) 23:55, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Not sure about everyone, but most random NPCs seem to be level 20. Melka Blanston, for example.&mdash;Aranth 02:03, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

They are exacly the same as in normal mode. I was doing Missing Daughter and when I started the quest, Am Fah were at normal levels, normal skills and damage. - &mdash; Abedeus   03:59, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Skill Capping in Hard Mode
Curious to know, can you cap elites from hard mode bosses in low-level areas? ~  Gold  Dean   - 01:29, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Unfortunitally you can't, Checked w/ a Cap Sig for the ele plant boss just outside Kamadan, and nothgne but Lightning Bolt and Lightning Strike on him. Aside from Icy Shakles and Ravenous Gaze, there are no other elites that you can cap outside of the Docks mission Ferdoc 02:33, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It seems they added Elites to non-bosses, but Boss skill bars do not change. I tried to see some in Ascalon areas. No change. Mithran 16:58, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Attack, Movement and Skill Use speeds
Monsters have a 50% attack speed increase and a 50% skill recharge.--Destillat 01:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Any proof or research? --Karlos 01:56, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I can film a video of them attacking if need be. The quickness the enemies were using their skills (the warriors were spamming Wild Blow faster than every 8 seconds and I --know-- Bane Signet does not recharge that fast) and the fact that their weapons moved at near light speed spurred that. Although it could be 33%, I'm pretty sure its 50%. --Destillat 02:05, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Also, they have half casting time XD, interupting with a ranger is almost impossiable. although i do get the 2.5 second meteor showers :P Detraya talk 
 * As seen in the Great Wall, the run a whole hell of a lot faster too--Destillat 03:01, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm seriously considering making my monk a 55 for that part of that mission. Two monks in a four-party group ftw :P Though I suppose I could replace the tank... And it would be nice if I could kill them all while I was at it. (Our MM managed to get within fifteen feet of Osric or whoever before the charr caught up with him... Even the tank didn't last too long...) --Armond Warblade (talk) 16:10, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Agree. I mean, I tried to kill Wing, Three Blades and he smashed my team in 6 seconds. IT'S CRAZY AS HELL! I mean, my character is lvl 20 ranger, and he killed me in 3 blows! -140, -150, -130 and -90 from his bodyguard warrior.... I guess that elite books are because of those changes. - &mdash; Abedeus   04:02, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It seems like monsters do attack faster but if its 50% or not must be cleared out. -Biz 08:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Does the adraline skill which the warriors\paragon uses also recharge 50% i mean do they have to hot some1 4 times instead of 8 Fox007 12:31, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

It shouldn't have anything to do with the elte books since the elites can still be captured normally in normal mode? Or is there something I'm not getting?--64.230.104.9 16:18, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

This is what I have found: Maybe they just have +50% to everything, then the suffer the limits. That is, they have +50%, but the limit is +33%, so if you use -50% on them, they move with 0% modification, just like regen pips. We should test that. Mithran 18:14, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * With a 33% movement speed bonus, they can chase me without having a 33% bonus themselves. Their speed is +33% increased, not 50%.
 * Without IAS skills, charr can deal almost two hits per seconds with a sword. So likely they have double attack speed, or at least 33..50% increase.
 * Torment Claws activate their Torment Slash in about 3 seconds, so, if they are not the only ones, activation is 50% faster.
 * And I think that recharge is also faster. I have seen the same Mahgo Hydra casting three Meteor Showers in few seconds.

Death
So, I was outside Eredon Terrace outpost (forgot the exact name of the map... Maishang Hills?) and died a few times. Don't exactly know how many times it was, I know I had 60 DP... but the thing is, the last time I died it didn't res me at the nearest shrine. Instead, I got the msg you get when your party is killed in a Mission, the only thing I could do was go back to the outpost. Does anyone know if it's a bug or is it meant to be that way now in Hard Mode?


 * Yep, that'll happen now. If the party reaches 60% dp, mission or exploration, you get wiped. --Destillat 02:10, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes this is how it is meant to be, quote from GW web site: "In Hard Mode, if all party members of a group are dead and at 60% Death Penalty, they will be returned to the outpost instead of being resurrected.". --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:11, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Making items that erase death penalty a bit more valuable... -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 02:52, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Indeed, very much so, would recommend to any team planning a "long trip" to bring some DP reducing items (just in case things start to go "pear shaped" on you).  Mind you, when in Hard Mode, you get +50% XP and these are higher leveled monsters, so that would help to work off any DP quickly (anyone tried using Scrolls and tested if both bonuses get applied or not?). --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 04:00, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * At lvl30 mobs, you get 1% of DP erased with every kill (Hell's Precipice), at lvl28 mobs about 4% for 5mobs. Not 100% sure info, just the feeling I had. 194.102.255.69 09:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This only occurs when all of your party members are at -60% before you die. I was in Old Ascalon earlier and my party had -60%, -60%, -53%, and -60% and we respawned after a wipe.  A subsequent wipe without any decrease in DP was enough to send us packing. Xylia 17:39, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Hench
When i saw hard mode was running, i rushed to Kamadan to have fun killing high lvl insects with 4 hench. I soon found out that the hench only used their Normal Mode skills from lvl 3. Herta spammed Stone Daggers and Kihm was actually a healing hench. Their attributes were the same as their lvl 20 selves, but they only used low lvl skills. Which was really annoying. Might wanna add that on the article under bugs or something - Snow White Tan  03:09, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Boss Skills
Ok, it says that all monsters have elite skills, but as far as I can tell, bosses in the Ascalon areas still seem to use their original skill bars, without the elite skills.

Well if Char Martyr's using Shield of Judgment is there normal bar.. and might i add 2 of them is damn near evil, 3 would be neigh impossible to kill Whitehike 04:09, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, bosses in Ascalon still use their original skillbars. Haven't encountered any Charr bosses yet, so they may be different, but Flint Touchstone, Mog Waapwaap, and Bonetti I can confirm to use their standard skillbar. --Valentein 04:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Didn't notice much of a change to the bosses in the great northern wall (although flare for 92 was kinda ouch... Fortunately I was the monk, so it was a simple matter of one or two Healing Touches). --Armond Warblade (talk) 16:07, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Spasmo Thunderbolt keeps the single Whirlwind. Elites are given to normal enemies, but bosses keep their skill bars untouched. Mithran 18:20, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Suneh Stormbringer Outside Kamadan now has Lightning Surge in Hard Mode, perhaps it's different with different bosses but that is a case where the boss has an elite it didn't have before. Mercurius Ter Maxim 18:30, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Vanquisher Title
It seems that the mobs vary for the title, as different users are reporting different numbers for the same areas. This will make the Wiki details on Vanquisher only approximate, but still useful.
 * I am 100% Certain that is is because of Mobs killing other mobs. The Old Ascalon Page is a good place to notice this. The Elementals and the Grawl Fight, which is why we've got numbers from 254, 270, 263 and 273. I think it all depends on how much the Mobs kill each other. Also, Pop-Ups may be a factor.
 * No, when mobs kill each other your number goes up, even if you haven't participated. I was watching some of the aforementioned mobs in Old Ascalon slaughtering each other (they're a lot better at it now ;p) and my number vanquished went up by like three. I bet it's solely due to the slight randomness of spawns.&mdash;Aranth 14:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Could it be possible that you got credit from them because they were in range? If they were out of range when they killed one another, they might not be counted.  Also, could it matter if it was an NPC that killed a mob? Xylia 17:44, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Popups are definitely a factor. We noticed in Old Ascalon that the completion bar would move a pixel in the wrong direction when we'd hit an area of 6+ Devourers. Also, and I don't know the exact effect, but if you attack peaceful animals, such as Moa Birds, the resulting kill increments the counter (and thus the final gold/experience earned). --Jeremy Winston 14:43, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Bug Tag
There has been a lot of confusion about what you need to do in order to access hard mode on characters that haven't completed a particular chapter. If it's not a bug that you need to log in on a character that has, there should at least be a note mentioning it. Mercurius Ter Maxim 05:24, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * According to GWW it is. That could mean it really is a bug since we know anet wants to use GWW for documentation. Argel 10:11, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

I found that also animals count, such as moa birds

Variation
Would have been more fun with a little more variation in names and such...like: Elder Devourer Elite Charr Ancient Scarab Just some new names to add some variety and a feeling of fighting new monsters :) (Soulflame 06:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT))
 * While that would make the game seem more cool... I don't think they're trying to make it seem a totally new game, just a harder, perhaps more realistic version of normal mode. (How can lvl 5 Ascalonian npcs have foughten the Krytan npcs who are so much stronger than them in the 'Guild Wars'.) With the monsters all more powerful, and the same names, it depicts a more realistic version of the game instead of your little elementalist being able to destroy an entire charr legion by themselves. Alreajk 16:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Drop Rate For Normal Mode
I've been Farming, in UW, insects and torment gems, I've noticed a lack of loot, less than what i use to get, did they change the drop rate for normal mode??
 * Yes - quoting the update notes: "Loot now scales according to party size." -- Sai Qui 06:00, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * More appropriately, they changed the drop rate for all modes. --[[image:Goteki-45.jpg]] <font color="#000000">Goteki-45  07:56, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So that means the only way to get money is to buy it, since it takes 4 runs before you have the normal amount of l00t u ussually get in 1.....that those ******** from Anet even dare to say: "The number of loot you get after reaptingly entering the same area dosn't drop anymore" no cause then there would be no l00t at all....&mdash;<font color=#000000>Merry  [[Image:MerrySig.jpg|19px]] (talk | contribs) 08:59, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Funny, I go with full-sized parties (so the drop rate update shouldn't affect me), and have only been playing on the weekends, and over the last month or so I've somehow accumulated around 40 plates. Just how much money do you need?  This is Guild Wars, not that-other-game-across-the-cyberspace. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Saving for FoW, begun 1 week before hard mode, got 105 shards and 23 ecto's so i tough i could get the rest this week......so it seems...i can't, you see for things you rely need muhc money it's impossible to get them symply because you can't earn teh money anymore.&mdash;<font color=#000000>Merry  [[Image:MerrySig.jpg|19px]] (talk | contribs) 09:30, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no real need to spend over 2 plats on any single thing in this game. I've been slowly saving towards my own Mesmer's FoW armor since almost two years ago, but that's not something I really need, it's just some fancy goal to work towards.  Something I would really need is a 20/20 Domination wand, and a Furious Spear of Enchanting with 10% HCT on it.  But even not having those isn't a big deal, so I'm not even gonna bother spending more than 2 plat on each of them.  I don't feel sorry for ppl who think they really need to spend 100+ plats on a single armor, weapon, or minipet.  If anything, the nerf on farming should cause a deflation on market values making things in general cheaper (probably takes a few months to really observe the effect though). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:51, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You think so? No, cause the few people that are buying money will start dominating the market because nobody can affort it, so the people who have it can make the price as high as they like cause the rich dude's just buy some more money...no big deal for them, so cause of this price will jsut go higher. And even if u don;t HAVE to buy FoW it no IS immpossible to get it. And dont think jsut of that, but laso Wisdom title, with less drops->less golds->no wisdom title, and wat about Unlucky or Lucky title? With no money to buy enough tickets...And Sweeth Tooth? It will take ages to get all sweet's for CoC form just events and such, same with Drunkard. See, it's not only very expensive armors or high-end weapons that are allmost unreachable to but after this, but also quite a lot of titles become WAY harder to atain. Accually, all of the Gold Sink's existing in GW are allmost unreachable after this ubdate. FoW allready was hard to reach before this, but it was still possible due to the amount of ecto's dropping on most of the UW runs. After this ubdate the same amount of ecto's is rached after 8 (!) runs, wich measn 8k, wich means 1 ecto, and the entry fee for FoW/UW was before erned back in the run with the other l00t, but now? maby u barely get 500g/run, expect the 8th run wich might contain 1 ecto. So waht i'm pointing on is that not jsut an expensive armor or a reae weapon became realy expensive, but also much farming will dry-out, thus meaning even less item's on the market, wich means higher prices. And maby u read it, maby not but on 1 topic on a GW forum existing maby 5 hour, containing around 60 posts, 40 (!!!) people said they where going to stop play GW due to this unfair (in their eyes) ubdate.145.53.104.132 10:07, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * IF money is worth anything of real value in GW, then your point might have some merit. But remember, the skills and equipments of necessity don't cost that much, and after that it's all luxury vanity items.  And I don't give a damn who dominates the luxury market.  It's not like a situation where 90% of the wealth is on 1% of the people when 30% of the children are starving to death.  We don't have starving children in GW, any semi-competent noob can get enough money for decent skills and armor.  IF price gets driven higher, it's because too many vain people are willing to pay for overpriced items that they don't need.  It's dumb buyers that drive the prices of luxury items up. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:22, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hey, uh, guys? I personally think drop-scaling is an awesome idea, and here's why: it's the only way I've heard of to actually, finally counter the farming bots. Which means the bots don't work anymore. Which means it's going to be a heck of a lot harder to buy hot platinum. PanSola is right. Go ArenaNet! 72.223.3.54 10:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Wrong about that -- bots will take longer to get gold, but they have the time. And the professional farmers will just run more bots to make up the difference. This nerf only affects human players. --Silicon 13:00, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * MY EYES THEY BURN CAN'T READ ANYMORE GAH! -grammar- &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 10:11, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You both have a point, Blastedt the best but MABY that's because I'm learing english for 2 years now >.< considder, how would your Duth grammer be if you where learning it for 2 years? Think about that.&mdash;<font color=#000000>Merry  [[Image:MerrySig.jpg|19px]] (talk | contribs) 10:25, 20 April 2007 (CDT)(Still toure g*dda*n right about it)


 * Sorry it's not personal. I was making a general observation of the many posts I saw today from many different people.  My main point is that it's silly to be upset about the (lack of) access to luxury items, especially when no one's basic livelihood is being threatened. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:34, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was talking about 145.xx.xxx.xxx &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 10:35, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually ditto. I made the comment as I was responding to 145, but then Merry's response made me assumed the post I was replying to was written by Merry also.  I didn't really pay attention to who wrote what until Blastedt caused me to notice... -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:38, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Meh, i feel realy sad, tired, ashamed, pissed and sucking in english....time to react my anger on a baseball&mdash;<font color=#000000>Merry  (talk | contribs) 11:02, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Okay, looks like eBay it is. :x --68.66.173.196 11:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

My problem with "Loot now scales according to party size" is simple. They are forcing their way of playing on the community.

Many game companies share that problem. I know it's for balance / community improvement. But you can also counter with the fact that it makes no sence for creeps to change what they cary vs different number of opponents. But neither of these points outweigh the very big issue of them forcing their play style on the community. --Mooseyfate 13:35, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Of course they are. But, if they didn't, who would?  Though I would much prefer to see the kind of community this update promotes, I see no other way to encourage it, and thus I support this "Farming nerf" if you choose to call it such. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    13:40, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

I did a solo 55 hydra run in hard mode to test and I got about the same loot as I used to in normal mode, but the griffon's can't be killed with just SoJ. I have however noticed much better drops in groups. Mercurius Ter Maxim 15:49, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

So all you people are saying that you're too lazy to find a group? Guild Wars is lacking in comraderie between players right now, and this seems like a good way to bring back PUGs into their greatness. I wholeheartedly support this. Oh, and you don't need to farm hours and hours on end to get FoW armor. Sure if you want it in a week... But why they heck would you want that? Getting something through your accumulated cash while working as a team is much more meaningful than grinding to get things, which comepletely destroys the point of Guild Wars. I got 40k in a month by just doing regular things, and a little bit of grp farming, and I dont even play all that much anymore. Anyway, with even better drops for regular gropus than before, and worse drops for solo'ers, this is a step in the right direction to revivng Guild Wars's damaged soul. Oh btw, Hard mode is awesome. It was so much fun doing The grat northern Wall against lvl 23s XD Alreajk/Talk


 * Why should I bother finding a group? I've done pugs before, and the majority of the time, I can do the same thing faster, safer, and easier with hench and heros. For example, I once went with 4 seperate "masters" groups for Rilohn Refuge. Not one of them got it, in one of them, me and another ele were the only people not getting killed regularly. After the 4th PUG attempt, I switched to a hero/hench team. Mastered in around 10 minutes, nobody died once. This change certainly doesn't make me any more likely to group with people, it just means I can retire most of my solo builds and just bring hench and heros everywhere I go now. Funny thing is, I almost never solo'ed to begin with cause farming bores me...I almost never farm as is, but the fact that I CAN'T farm if I DO want to now is annoying. DKS01 19:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

So, if I can count all of this information to be correct, solo UW farming is dead, solo trapping the Stygian Veil will now yield few-to-no gems (Crap, I sold 15 Stygian Gems for 2k each last month T_T), and my 55 Necro Green farmer is dead? Or does this update affect green drops? I appreciate your help! Phalmatticus 18:45, 20 April 2007 (CDT)Phalmatticus

Cantha Hard Mode
My mesmer has "completed" the Factions campaign, Kurzicks route. None of my characters have done Luxon. The Canthan hard mode is not available to my level 20 characters. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 07:03, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Have you tried loggin in with your mesmer after the update? The game wouldn't let me access hard mode for Nightfall until I logged in with a character who had completed the Nightfall campaign. -- Gordon Ecker 07:08, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I've logged in with my Mesmer, though she has not visited Cantha. I'll try that tomorrow. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:17, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe "completed" means "has the Protector title" (though I agree that that is not what they said)? Argel 10:21, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No protector needed, trust me. I had the same problem with Elona.  I logged onto my paragon to check, since that was the character I beat the campaign on.  Once I saw that hard mode was active for my paragon in Elona, I switched characters, and it was available.  I would imagine that the character needs to be on the right continent, so the game can check if the character is eligible for that area. Moiax 11:52, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Monster Pages
All monster pages will need to be updated with Hard Mode info. If I may suggest a method... My example would be how monsters such as this one are currently displayed.
 * Add a second set of levels below the first set, showing possible levels in hard mode.
 * Add a second list of skills under the first set, showing skills by level in hard mode.

A Bot would probably be best suited to the task of creating these new places to enter data on each Monster Page. --   09:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * There's enough horizontal space that I think hard mode data in the article should be a separate column, instead of taking more vertical space. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:25, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Works for me... Just make sure somebody does it before everybody starts updating each article the way they think looks best, so it's all uniform. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    09:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm willing to update pages as needed, so far i've just made a note on Suneh Stormbringer at the bottom of the page on the skill setting and made a note of the xp bonus given from Plant Hunt. let me know if its ok or you want it changed.  tyvm  Ferdoc 11:25, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Leprechaun
User Leprechaun copy/pasted 68 times "Changes to normal mode". Someone wanna reverse that and punish that "funny" user? &mdash; Abedeus   09:54, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Locked Chests
Would someone mind adding a section on the Locked Chests, please? I was wondering what kind of treasure chests Hard Mode had to offer. I had to go to the Lockpick, and then from there search for "Locked Chests" to get my answer. (I'd add it myself, but I haven't even touched Hard Mode yet. ^_^;) Gwen Shadowsound 11:09, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think we really shouldn't and something here about the locked chests. It should be, imho, a seperate page dealing with the drops.  in case you're wondering, my party of 3 ppl 1 hero in plains of jarin encountered 3 locked chests.  out of the 9 drops from the chests 7 golds 2 grapes.  5 golds were maxed stats w/ non max mods.  2 golds were non maxed w/ non max mods.  the 2 graps were max w/ non max mods.  Lowest req from our run was 10, highest 12.  maybe we should actually work on one of those chest drops pages from the statistic project?  Ferdoc 11:29, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, yeah. Sorry, that's not what I meant. Drop rates should stay on their separate pages. What I meant was that someone should add a little line saying that, for example, "A chest in Hard Mode will always be labeled as a Locked Chest, regardless of the region." But I don't even know if that's true yet, which is why I haven't added it. Gwen Shadowsound 18:54, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Lockpicking
Just a brief voicing of my opinion. I don't care for titles influencing gameplay like this. Luck title is very bad because of the scenseless grinding required to attain it. Treasure hunter is bad because of it being character based, not account based. I also am still not a fan of salvage skill being based on character based titles. It your salvage skill is going to be effected by treasure hunter and wisdom, then treasure hunter and wisdom should be account based. The only title effects I approve of are sunspear and lightbringer. But at the same time I dissaprove of PvE only skills. Just the opinion of a single vocal minority... so I guess it doesn't matter. However, I do like that they consolidated keys into just one type for hard. --Mooseyfate 13:43, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, it sucks that I have to storage, log out and log in as my monk if I want to salvage valuable items, she is the only character with any sort of high Wisdom, these should be based on my account. I am also not sure I like Sunspear and Lightbringer being per character, I am getting a bit tired of grinding for those titles so I can play my 8th character through game. While on the subject, Skill Hunter should also be per account, there is no sane (outside of wanting the title) reason that any character would need all the Elites from all the professions, I should only need to have each skill once to have the title across my account (though that creates problems if I delete a character). --Heurist 14:57, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

What?
"Monster levels in Normal Mode are unchanged. This means that their drop rates are the same as before (though note that drop rates now scale with the size of the party). An example of this lowered drop rate is as follows. The 12 Dragon Moss that spawn in relation to the quest A New Escort outside Saint Anjeka's Shrine would usually drop between 10 and 12 items per solo run. They now drop 1-3 items" Is it just me or does this sentence not make any sense? It says that drop rates are the same as before, but in the end it says the dragon moss drop less items? Who added this?

Drop rate for a whole group remains the same, the numbers remained the same. What changed was the mechanics on how the "drop rate" of each monster was applied to a member if he is in a solo-party or an incomplete one. -Silk Weaker 13:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Or in other words, if you solo, you are essentially sharing drops with 7 invisible party members, give you a 1/8 of the loot. If you go out into the Jade Sea with a group of 4 people, you are sharing drops with 4 invisible party members, still giving you what amounts to 1/8 of the loot. And last of all if you go out in a group of 8, you get your normal 1/8 share of the loot. So basically, no matter HOW many or few people are in your party you're getting the loot you would get if you were in a full party. DKS01 13:53, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That's what people keep quoting from the official releases, but the in-game testing results posted on various forums say otherwise. By most accounts I've read, however the testers are measuring it (gold/run, drops/monster set), the one-party loot drops have shrunk. 209.67.222.200 14:29, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * If the invisible party member theory is true (I'm sorta confused now), then farming with henchmen/heroes will now be more profitable /easier than soloing? Soulwar 15:57, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You should get the same amount of drops whether you solo or if you have a full party. Consider it like this for an 8 person area. If you enter that zone solo, the loot scales so only 1/8 as much drops, but since you are the only person, you get all of it. If you enter with 2 people, the loot scales so only 1/4 as much drops (2 of 8 maximum party members), but there are two people so you are splitting it 2 ways for a total share of 1/8th. With three people, you get 3/8 as much loot total, split 3 ways for again 1/8th, and so on. Basically, the you get more loot for each person in your party, but you are splitting it amongst more people so it works out to be equal. Does that explain it? BigAstro 16:22, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Lockpicks vs skill tombs contradiction
I get why they have lockpicks instead of different keys for different areas. I'm a big fan of this fact. However, it would be nice if they followed the same philosophy for skill tombs. It makes sence that rangers drop ranger skill tombs, that's for sure. But it seems like it would be nice to follow the philosophy of not needing a bounch of different (keys) to not needing a bounch of different (tomes). Like I said, it makes less sense for a ranger to drop a monk tomes, but it also makes less sence that soul reaping only triggers every 5 seconds or that loot drop varies based on party size (my point here being sometimes GW favors making sense over gameplay, and sometimes they favor gameplay over making sense). This is really not so much a critique or complaint, more of an observation. --Mooseyfate 13:50, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Uhm, it's "Tome" wtf, noone died, what do books have to do with dead people?


 * They're trying to encourage hunting parties as opposed to cookie cutter farm teams. The former is more interesting and variable depending on skill, etc. On Jarin Plains, my 3 man team got, in total, 12 golds. gg.


 * This is in favor of gameplay, yes, but what's wrong with that?-Silk Weaker 13:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Like Moosey said, it simply an observation. Personally I like the different tome things, simply because a book can only hold so much before it's too heavy to carry. I know, I read a lot. If every tome carried every skill from every profession it would me far too thick. Now split it up into different professions and you get an easier to carry book. Atleast that is my theory on why the different tomes makes sense.[[Image:Horrified.png]]Kilcannon 17:39, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * About the whole size and weight thing, keep in mind, in GW physics, a full suit of plate armor is both large enough for a nearly 7 foot tall 300 pount warrior to wear and provide a large amount of armor, and small enough for the FULL SUIT to fit in a pouch on his belt. And that same warrior can carry 20 two handed heavy hammers in his back pack, and carry 20 more in bags if he wants to. In addition to all that, he can still manage to carry 100k worth of gold pieces on his person as well. And he can carry all this without even slowing down. And best of all, the same stuff can just as easily be carried by the tiny little 5 foot 100 pound monk girl too... DKS01 19:34, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Grouping
The party leader dictates the Normal/Hard mode setting. What happens when you group with someone who hasn't beaten the last mission of the continent? Does he get pulled into Hard Mode, or is the party leader unable to set hard mode until the unfinished character is kicked, or is does the game kick the unfinished character when the group leaves the town? 209.67.222.200 14:27, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Good to see confirmation that the leader sets the mode - I was wondering about that, but I'm nearly always leader so I couldn't check. If a character who does not have hard mode unlocked joins a party set to hard mode, the game forces it down to normal mode and gives a message about the fact, including the name of the character that does not have hard mode unlocked. --Armond Warblade (talk) 14:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

The group gets set to normal mode and the leader gets a message that the person can't do hard mode. If you try to set hard mode with such a person in your party you get the same message. Mercurius Ter Maxim 17:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

All chests give title
I checked, and I think that all chests in hard mode give a treasure hunting title point, regardless of area. If anyone wants to check and add this, I'd be grateful Smarty100044@msn.com 14:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ripped from redirect page. --Armond Warblade (talk) 15:55, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

The Underworld / FoW
According to Gaile: "Hard mode is available in all areas of the game except for Pre-Searing Ascalon.". Anyone checked the Underworld?
 * Yes, there are some quite lovely level 32 aatxes there. Fred The Second 16:15, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I ran into those myself. Less then friendly, I must say.  And the +50 Speed Boost is not conductive towards Smite only farming.  On the plus side, +50% attack speed = Spiteful Spirit heaven. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    19:35, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Drop Rate
I noticed the big debate up there about farming nerf, but here are some points I thouight of that i didn't see mentioned:
 * 1) It scales with party size. So either:
 * 2) *You get the same amount of loot no matter your party size, or
 * 3) *You actually get more loot with a bigger party. Elite missions, anyone?
 * Also, if you just play hard mode you have a higher drop rate than you used to in normal mode. AND you can get better items in there. STOP COMPLAINING. --Wizardboy777 18:24, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

You get the same amount of loot no matter the party size. Which means you get the same low amount of loot playing by yourself as you would playing in a full 8 player group. And I sure as hell haven't seen any sign of a higher drop rate in hard mode. Let's say they doubled your chances of getting a gold in hard mode...the thing is, if your chance of getting a gold was .05% to begin with, doubled it's still only .1%. As for "better items", that's really subjective isn't it? The only hard mode items I have any interest in are the elite skill tomes, I don't need regular tomes, I don't care about lockpicks, and the only reason I ever had for going to FoW/UW was for farming, since they killed that I have no use for passage scrolls either. The only thing hard mode has that benefits me so far is the ability to get Lightbringer and Sunspear points, which I AM making the most of(running around in hard more Realm of Torment last night I went from ~4200 lightbringer points to ~6100, and that was BEFORE the doubled points thing, I can only imagine how many I'll get tonight, will definitely have the next title level though) DKS01 19:27, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Needs to Be Fixed
The section on tiems need to be fixed, and since i suck at Wiki HTML, someone do it, please. <font color="Red">Kurzspear 18:27, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * the  [edit] [edit] [edit]  ? that's because the pictures are all larger then the sections that house them, and it's pushing the edit tags down the page to the first gap in the pictures. known issue, nothing to be done. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 18:29, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Aw, that means the article can't look pretty... <font color="Red">Kurzspear 18:31, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed, ... &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 18:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice. I was wondering about that ugliness myself. If I had a cookie, I would give it to you. ^_^ Gwen Shadowsound 18:59, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * -eats- &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 19:45, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * undos* You only need ONE , no need to spam and flood the article with it.  I've removed every single one of them as a punishment!  Now you should suffer through all the [edit] links!!!  (ie, I've fixed it) -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 20:26, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Presearing
So.. if you beat Tyria, and have a level 20 in presearing...
 * Oh, nevermind, the answer is already here. No hard mode for presearing.

Explorer Title
It should be noted on the page somewhere that Hard Mode combines VERY well with explorer titles, as you are already required to clear every enemy from the area, it's no challenge to map it while you're there. --   19:47, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Entering Hard Mode
ive allrdy beat hells precipice on my tank, so will i be able to enter had mode on him and my other characters?

suicide farming
farming hopping vampires and thought stealer's on hard mode lvl 20 necro 9 soul reaping 9 death magic and the skill animate bone minion mwahahahahaha