Talk:Hero

Archived discussions
 * /Archive 1

Lets hope that we can get the attack/defend/stay worked into pets too :P --08:24, 16 September 2006 (CDT)

How do we know it is three?
how do we know?
 * Pretty sure it said in the PC Gamer article and also there is only 3 spots they can occupy --Lemming64 07:14, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Article layout and content
For now, I made the article pretty much a wikified version of the official heroes guide, only restructured. I suggest that we gradually replace ANet's wording with our own as we have the necessary information available, and add images. We all know an image tells more than many words. -- 02:02, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

Hero levels
Seems that at least for the Preview event Heroes can level to higher than the character's level:



--Rainith 21:11, 22 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I think it's more that Koss joins your party at level 4. Correct me if I'm wrong :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 10:51, 23 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, you're wrong. :P  I took that pic right after he leveled up.  I believe he joins at whatever level you are (I might be wrong, he and I were both level 2 when he joined me).  --Rainith 21:47, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I took a few characters through the beginning of the event. Koss always leveled to 3 and 4 before I did. After that, though, he never rose above my level all the way up to 18. --71.50.184.177 19:41, 25 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I've only seen it happen after accepting quest rewards. Maybe the cap works by preventing them from gaineng experience if they already have an equal or greater experience total than you, which, with the doubled experience from quest rewards, would allow heroes to occasionally exceed your level. -- Gordon Ecker 18:22, 6 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I only played the event up to level 11, but Koss seemed to always stay at my level, usually surpassing my level minutes before I would level. Just remember, this was a Beta event which means they could have disabled the part of hero's not being able to surpass your level. --Mwpeck 19:36, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * The Hero exceeding the player is still happening with the current release. Koss surpassed my Paragon to lvl 5.--Taeliesyn 17:14, 28 October 2006 (Aus EST)


 * I think the heroes gain experience when fighting the way players get it.. XP according to difference in level between hero and slain enemy divided by the number of people in the party. That way if the hero is a higher level than you, he gains less XP and you can catch up with him. Also the heroes I get new tend to be lower level, as I'm very thorough with quests and killing etc., so I level fairly quickly. But lower level heroes catch up with me and my previous heroes because they gain more XP from combat. Also heroes seem to gain the same XP from quests and missions that you do. S-Nickau 10:06, 1 November 2006 (CST)


 * Seems like heroes can still level up before you. Atleast my Koss got his level 6 just before me. (I was quite close in gaining the next level. (30xp more)) See the pic: [[Image:HeroInHigherLevelThanMe.jpg]]Kalomeli 06:53, 2 November 2006 (CST)


 * Same thing here, I have been farming sunspear points in Jarin Plains to reach Commander prior to hitting level 8 with my Necro, and send in Koss with a henchie to do the killing so I don't gain any XP, but still get the Promotion Points. I am currently about 700 points away from leveling, and Koss has already reached level 8. So it does appear that Heroes can at least surpass you by one level. I am going to try to remain at my current level and see if Koss hits 9 or if he stops leveling until my character matches his level. HanokOdbrook 09:44, 2 November 2006 (CST)

I can confirm now that Heroes continue to gain XP and can level beyond the current level of your character. My Koss just hit level 9 while my Necro still remains at level 7. HanokOdbrook 16:47, 3 November 2006 (CST)


 * Would someone fix the note about leveling? Apparently the published material (the quoted stuff) is wrong. I'm not quite sure what we should write, other than the heros can level faster. -Anooneemiss 18:12, 4 November 2006 (CST)


 * I added a note to the bottom of that section. Feel free to improve on the wording.  --Delia Rashesh (talk) 14:53, 19 November 2006 (CST)

Just in case you needed any more info, I managed to speed through most of Factions story to get my sin to Kaineng, and picked up Zenmai while I was only level 12 (Zenmai starts at level 15). I kept her in the party for just about every quest I did, and Zenmai actually got to level 20 before I did (I was about level 17/18 when she hit 20). Jioruji Derako 16:31, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Bundles and Heros
As i went through Chahbek Coop the question arose whether it is possible to having a hero pick up a bundle, e.g. the catapult ammunition. As it is clearly stated that ammunition for both catapults is needed, i thought there may be some way to make a hero pick up one, but i failed. Neither ordering him to move to the object he should pick up nor any other method i tried was successful, so i guess it isn't possible - has anyone made other experiences on this? -- Sai Qui 05:25, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes. This seems like something that should have been included in hero Ai. Ther is a mission early in Nightfall that requires you to place to bundels almost simultainusly. Its quite difficuly solo.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 21:39, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * I know you mean Jokanur Diggings, and it isn't difficult at all. Simply gather the two tablets and drop them near the pedestals before placing them. The ghosts won't come after the tablets unless they are already placed. :) That aside, I agree that the ability to make heroes/henches carry bundles is badly needed. Arshay Duskbrow 23:34, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * That would be the one. And it took me about 3 tries to figure it out.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 23:41, 17 November 2006 (CST)

Heroes and their Pets
You can get a hero to charm a pet (order the other guys away and tell the beastmaster to use Charm Animal. Hit an animal once to agro it so the hero will start to charm). However, when you leave an area, the animal is lost. This makes me sad. &mdash; Oreso 06:48, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Read the game updates, they've listed this as a known bug &mdash; Skuld 06:58, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, forgot my emphasis. They can control pets, just not from area to area. &mdash; Oreso 07:05, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * The pet does stay with the Hero from area to area now. My Hero Jin capped a Tiger from Shing Jea.. and still has it on Istan--P.hilling 23:07, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

How do you remove the pets from heroes? -- JustinMark 03:16, October 30, 2006
 * Currently there is no way. Anet is aware of this, and Gaile said they will eventually fix it, but no idea of 'when'.- Coran Ironclaw 10:11, 19 November 2006 (CST)

The article states a hero "will SPAM Comfort Animal when their pet gets attacked," (emphasis added). Does this mean the hero will do NOTHING other than Comfort Animal the entire time a pet is being attacked?MeltedFreak 14:42, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hmm, really? I'll have to test that out for myself... I've personally been having problems with Margrid, whom I gave a Black Moa to, and also gave her Heal as One. Unfortunately, her AI seems to prefer to use it as a self-heal rather then a pet heal, and her pet often ends up dead if she's not taking damage as well (she also doesn't seem to enjoy the idea of reviving the pet with it). I'll have to test her out with Comfort Animal, and see how she uses that. Jioruji Derako 16:35, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Emotes
I know that if you start dancing in an explorable area your hero will join in, I am not sure of the extent of the emotes that it will copy cat but it may be an subject for exploration and intrest. --Lemming64 07:16, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes this was added in yesterday's update, and applies to all henchies, not just heros(and let me just say I did NOT need to see Thom doing the warrior dance...ever). If you dance, some heroes/henchies will dance, others will play instruments. They also sometimes do random emotes while you're idle, I've seen dance and taunt so far.DKS01 08:03, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Outside Elona
Are we able to take our heroes to other campaigns / UW / FoW? I hope we can. -- (talk) 09:13, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8817/gailebc3.jpg

she also said you can use them in gvg/ha, but i can't find a log saying that :( Detraya talk  21:01, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Here's that other one: http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4387/herosxb8.gif &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   21:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Yay! We are saved! --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Hopefully that also includes Fissure, Underworld and elite missions. -- Gordon Ecker 03:09, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * But you can't take henches to the FoW and UW... Kessel 03:11, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * But we want to take heroes there, so lets hope. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:12, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Any news on taking them to uw or fow? (why we have favor so little time?...)


 * You CAN take Heros to UW/FoW See http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1323/gw019nx9.jpg --P.hilling 22:51, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I just checked, you can also take Heroes to the Elite Missions See http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3682/gw020yo0.jpg I'm editing the main page accordingly. --P.hilling 16:00, 29 October 2006 (CST)

The future of farming
How long do you think it will take for someone to come up with a completely autonomous 55 Monk? lol -- Macros†  (talk)  12:23, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * The hero still steals drops. But yes, it will probably be possible to create a semi good damage dealer hero for a 'soloing' 55hp/Spirit Bonder. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:14, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I can see it now... a partner to cast SS... to cast Spell Breaker... or anything else a dual farm team could do. Only solo (sorta). -- Macros†   (talk)  16:29, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

Past Campaigns
It'd be spiffy if the option to recruit the Heroes of Ascalon as Heroes in the Nightfall sense. Same with the Heroes of Cantha (the ones you choose from in the Raisu Palace mission, Danika/Argo/Panaku/Talon/Nika, since Cynn is already a Tyrian Hero). Mayhaps have it so that whichever Faction you join, that's the hero you get, and the other is off-limits (which makes sense, even if you're a double-agent). Possibly Jamei as well, if your Tyrian character had Mhenlo as a Hero he'd be replaced with Jamei upon arrival to Cantha (since he now becomes an NPC). I'd suggest Yijo Tahn, too, but... he wouldn't last very long. It probably won't happen, but hey. It'd be spiffy. --Valentein 17:38, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * They wont be doing major changes to past campaigns, but I'm still hoping that we can take our heroes from Elona to the other campaigns and UW/FoW. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Agreed on your point, that's HUGE to me, so can I take my heroes to chp1,chp2,chp4+??
 * --CKaz 15:25, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, which isn't spiffy at all. It's more of an... update, really. They could offer it with some sort of promotional package, to upgrade past campaigns to get certain Nightfall features. I'm not even sure how much work it would require, other than to modify the heroes already made to look like the heroes stated earlier. It would be a decent way to make money, in my opinion. Plus it'd be neat. --70.50.140.38 02:38, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

Armor in General, Specifically Headpieces
Wow, if you can't change the headpiece on the Heros, that will suck. I mean, what would a Warrior be without an Axe, Sword, or Hammer headpiece? And what if I want to go prot monk instead of heal, or whatever? Don't give me this "put those runes on the body" or whatever, I don't want to pay for runes everytime I change one of the hero's builds... Windtalker 19:28, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * During the weekend all the heros I got (Warrior, Monk, Dervish, Ele) had their primary attribute headpiece. Fine for the monk. The rest I really would have liked to change. --71.50.184.177 19:38, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Salvage Kits on the rune on hero's armors never fail. So, instead of keep another headpieces of armor for heroes, we only need to have runes on storage and we can change it just with a cost of a recycle.

What does that Item's Attribute +1 on headpieces means? Because it seems to do nothing... -Coran
 * It means that if you add a rune to that armorpiece, the attribute of that rune is boosted by 1. So if you add some major rune to the armor which normally gives +2, it now gives +3. --80.126.240.48 02:47, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Two unknown heroes
I think it can be surmised that one of them is a ranger. I doubt that the only ranger would be one that you may not necessarily get. - 12.218.6.223 20:31, 25 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I doubt it. I think one is a memser (the actor guy) and the other sounds like a tank. --Karlos 21:19, 25 September 2006 (CDT)


 * From the other classes, I'd say that this bodyguard should be either a Ranger or a Ritualist. If Jin is the only Ranger, it's reasonably safe to say that no-one would take Sousuke if they want to fully round out their hero list (i.e. have one of each profession). Ritualist is the only other profession not present, and unless ANet has any more heroes up their sleeves that they haven't revealed yet, at least one profession may get left out. --Valentein 20:35, 27 September 2006 (CDT)


 * If yor character is a ranger, why would you recruit a ranger? Likewise, if you have an ele, you'll likely pass on the ele. Overall though, NPC eles stink, so I'd take the ranger for most of my chars (except my ranger). --Karlos 21:02, 27 September 2006 (CDT)


 * It's possible that there's even more heroes. We're already up to thirteen, and I suspect at least one Mesmer and one Ritualist, as well as a Ranger whose recruitment doesn't preclude the recruitment of another non-ranger hero like Jin's recruitment does (although it might be possible to recruit the second acolyte later on in the storyline and there's speculation that Magrid could be a Ranger). Norgu sounds like he could be a Mesmer, but Goren's probably a warrior. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't recall where exactly, but in some preview it said more than 12, which is confirmed now, as we already have 13. Personally I expect at least 2 of each core profession, plus 2 of each Nightfall profession, plus at least 1 of each Faction profession. That'd be 2x6 + 2x2 + 2x1 = 18. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:27, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

Signet of Capture
I didn't get a chance to test this (or check to see if i could get a signet of capture) but I think you might be able to capture elites for other classes with your heroes. I got the idea when, upon getting certain heroes, I learned skills that they came with. (T/C) 22:33, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Signets of Capture are not part of the list of unlocked skills, so they can't be used by heroes (or pvp chars for that matter). --Leonim 18:58, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * The game updates for the event said that it is a known problem that heroeas can't use SoCs, but the function will be there for the final release. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:41, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, thanks for pointing that out. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 15:40, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * No signet of capture for heros in final release neither. TulipVorlax 22:32, 23 November 2006 (CST)

Magrid
Magrid is listed here as a Warrior hero, yet in the trailer he/she is clearly shwon firing a bow. Of course, he/she may be a W/R, but for now we can only assume that he/she is a ranger. Planeforger 07:01, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * You can give heroes whatever weapons and secondary professions you want. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I realise that, but why would we assume that Magrid is a warrior, when we've only seen him/her use a bow?


 * I agree, who made that assumption? --Karlos 01:23, 29 September 2006 (CDT)


 * It may have been me (mostly based on the look of her armor), and yes, the assumption was probably premature. Is the party window visible in the preview video? That would help a lot. That way the profession for the assassin hero was determined. We also need confirmation for Ma(r)grid's name. See Talk:Magrid the Sly. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:47, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Change the profession to unknown then, rather than trying to guess off videos or previews. It's less than a month away for true confirmation ;) -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 04:32, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * If the profession is clearly visible in the party window in a preview video I wouldn't call that "guessing", I'd consider that a confirmation. What I did was guessing based on look. That's a different matter, and I agree I shouldn't have done that. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:38, 29 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I checked the video again, and her profession is not visible. But one thing is visible: Her name is Margrid (with two r), without "the Sly". I'll change the article accordingly. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:21, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

The Zaishen Acolytes
Perhaps it is possible to recruit both Zaishen Acolytes, at some later date? The 2nd trailer clearly shows both acolytes in the same party, with no other pc around. Planeforger 07:01, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I'm hoping that you can recruit the other heroes later in the campaign, or, at the very least, recruit them once you've finished the campaign and reached Elona's version of Divine Path. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I sure hope so, Jin's personality sucks. I feel bad for turning down Sousuke :) --CC

Hero Builds
Should we make a section for hero builds? Given how customizable their skillsets are, there will probably be a lot of combos that the AI can use well, and a lot it can't. Particularly for those of us who enjoy Guild Wars as an RPG rather than an RTS, a listing of tested "fire and forget" hero builds that the AI can be given would be quite useful. --Shattered Self 18:48, 28 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm not too sure we should have that. Maintaining and testing character builds is already a pain to those involved. If you start posting up hero builds, we're gonna have people creating alot of new pages for hero team builds. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 19:54, 28 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I would be thoroughly against that. Then again, I was against the current builds system, so anyways... I can see where if someone was able to, say, 2 man farm the UW with their hero how that such a build would be something people wanna know, but frankly, 90% of the PvE farming builds we have are silly. Take for example the fabled "Troll Farming" build which is ludicrous. I mean, farming trolls is not exactly the most profitable thing you can do. The reason there are so many troll farmers is because it's easy, not because it is optimal. Anyways. I am against such an idea, but never underestimate the abilities of the human intellect. There may come a time where 2/3 man hero builds become the thing. I can already see two very powerful scenarios where heroes will help farmers a lot... A bonder monk, and a spirit spamming ranger. Both can do their thing, and then be told to go stand in a corner away from the action. --Karlos 22:56, 28 September 2006 (CDT)


 * The Heroes don't use sustained enchantments like players would. I tried to put my bonder build template on the monk hero... Life bond is not much of a 'cast during battle, drop after' skill, but that's how he tried to use it!  This is especially true when you've got 3 tanks that could heavily benefit from it. And don't even get me started on Blessed Signet... I have enough trouble remembering to use that when it's ready and i'm running the build ACTIVELY!  i hope this is something they fix, but at the same time, i know that some builds like the bonder or AoE smiter are made so that the spells are used in non-optimal situations for the OTHER effects.  it would be hard to train the AI to ignore optimal usage of reversal of fortune (for example in AoE build) simply for it's ease of spamability.  As for 'hero specific' builds on the wiki, simply flagging existing builds with 'hero compatible' or a 'hero capable rating: 1-5' would be my suggestion, but i'm not a major contributor here, so i am not sure how much work that would take.  Just tossin in my few cents tho...  :D  Spectre100 04:59, 30 October 2006 (CST)


 * This is where build wiki could be usefull. Just move all builds there and start adding hero builds too. The rules could also be made a lot better if there is nothing else but the builds in the wiki. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:09, 29 September 2006 (CDT)


 * It would be pretty useful to have one page per character and then list all the alternate builds. Not a lot of the common builds used in PvE or PvP would really work on henchmen because their AI doesn't use the skills properly. For example, the very first thing I did with Koss was make him a shock/axe warrior. All he does is spam shock leaving no energy for anything else. I hope people can restrain themselves from posting crappy builds though. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 22:34, 29 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah, but you do know that you can control your hero's skillbar, you don't need to rely on the AI. --Rainith 22:51, 29 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd imagine that would get difficult when controlling 2-3 heros. I don't have much time to do other stuff as is when I'm trying to time my interrupts. --Ryard 00:02, 30 September 2006 (CDT)


 * My 2nd build was a succor battle rager. He either didnt use battle rage or when I told him to use it, he would do nothing but continually use it and have no adrenaline for attacks. You can't tell them what not to do is the main problem. And you cannot instruct them on proper use of stances, etc. You basically have to work a build around the way their AI works. Like I did. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 01:28, 30 September 2006 (CDT)


 * heroes will rock in the running business. :) An extra meat wall which you control is always nice. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 00:34, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Well now you can control henchmen to, but i assume you mean controlling their skills. having something help you past the imps on the droks run would ne nice.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 01:43, 19 November 2006 (CST)

Zhed Shadowhoof
Bare with me but he doesn't appear to be an Ele primary. Look at how fast he uses Elemental Attunement in the video. That screams fast cast mesmer to me. And those definately aren't energy storage weapon/offhands. (T/C) 02:05, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Someone in my alliance hooked me up with some magazine scans that show the professions of 12 heroes (two of them not previously listed here) and their professions. Zhed is a mesmer. You can see them here and here2. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png|Chuiu]] (T/C) 10:40, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Why was Zhed reverted? The Guild Wars website says he's an Elementalist here - Lord Ehzed 22:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT) (being good and not double-reverting....)
 * Because no one said anything about it till now, leaving Chuiu's comment as the only one on the issue. --Fyren 22:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Zhed IS a primary Ele. I have him as a lvl 20 Renewal Nuker. 160.79.240.98 06:27, 30 October 2006 (CST)

More listings and loving what Razah might bring to the table
http://gw.gamona.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=184 and then babel-fished it, yummy.

Seems to add a couple to the mix, Olias necro, Zenmai assassin, which means yes we have to have a Ritualist in tow (maybe Master of Whispers, maybe someone else). But hold the phone for Razah and the rough translation -


 * Razah
 * Informal hero
 * "I live to serve over."
 * Origin: The nebulas
 * Older: Not applicably
 * Class: Variable 


 * The Protomaterie, of which the nebulas consist, strives for creation and brings thereby often daemonisches life out in nightmareful shapes. However all creatures from the nebulas are not daemonisch. If the nebulas come into contact with a suitable human template, they can copy for example the shape of this humans and a feelingable nature with a humanoiden exterior as well as an almost human spirit to create. Razah is such a creature. The nature manifested itself directly in shape of attained full growth humans. It had the knowledge and the abilities of humans, has however no human understanding. As consequence of it Razah places strange questions over human feelings, thinks about human motives and tries to copy human characteristics. Razah is a contradiction in itself: in certain way more humanly than humans, in other way more in an inhuman way. It needs an identity, a personality and a purpose. Hopefully Razah finds its purpose in co-operation with a hero. Otherwise the creature could monstroesen to likewise and degenerate to inhuman Scheusal, as there is its daemonischen brothers.

--CKaz 13:20, 16 October 2006 (CDT)


 * My guess would be that you choose his profession when you recruit him, not that he can change his profession any time after you recruit him. Also note that the picture shows a necro called "Attoron" and the text names a guy called Olias. --Karlos 22:15, 16 October 2006 (CDT)


 * So Olias was in the White Mantle, then left, and Zenmai was in the Am Fah, then left. Huh. --Valentein 22:32, 16 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I suspect that Razah may use your own character as a template, copying your own profession, although I'm hoping you'll be able to change Raziah's primary profession as easily as you can change your own secondary profession. I think it'd be cool if he / she / it looked sort of like the Doppelganger. Does anyone have a link to the original article on the official site? -- Gordon Ecker 23:15, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

BTW here's the babelfish translations of Olias and Zenmai's descriptions.


 * Olias
 * Possessed Nekromant
 * "Grenth lives! You against it must die!"
 * Origin: Tyria (lion stone)
 * Older: 32
 * Class: Nekromant


 * In former times Olias received its movement orders from the white coat, but today he goes its to own way. A meeting with the temple of the ages convinced Olias that it a special mission had granted: It serves now as Grenths personal "hand the justice" and implements, which it regards as the will of its God. It lives after a simple principle. From those, which there-separate and return to the life, Grenth expects that they live their lives well. If they do not do that, Olias ensures for the fact that they are carried back into the cold embrace of the master of death. Puzzling events in Elona force it now to become active in Grenths name. All unrest in the country is for Olias a sign for the fact that the Gods are threatened and even the dead ones in their eternal sleep become jerky. He swore Grenth the fact that he the cause of the strange illness find and would repair. And if Grenth gets thereby new servants, the better! Death and killing please Olias. It talks gladly also about other topics, but strange to say the discussions return somehow again and again to death and killing.


 * Zenmai
 * Abtruennige Assassinin
 * "I know this smell. That is the smell of death."
 * Origin: Cantha
 * Older: 23
 * Class: Assassinin


 * Zenmai learned the methods of the quiet attempted assassinations as a member the to Fah gang in Cantha. It broke with the criminal gang, when this organization accepted the canthanische plague as a "gift of the Gods".
 * Now it is Mo Zing - a around-pulling sword, an abandoned Assassinin, which sells its services to highest bidder the in each case. It has debt feelings because of the illness, which overcame their former brothers and sisters, but change is the only constant in its life. With increasing darkness she feels that a long-known power again back is and works behind the window blinds. Who or which is responsible for the plague always: It wants to place the causer, who devastates its country with this epidemic has.

-- Gordon Ecker 01:34, 17 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Lol, this is hilarious. :) Sounds like a translation by Gollumfish to me. :) I love the "white coat." :P Nice info though. --Karlos 05:00, 17 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, I'm surprised by the quality of translation. If that's the original Babelfish text, not polished by a human, then Babelfish has improved a lot! Their translations used to be total gibberish. Now it's understandable. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:35, 17 October 2006 (CDT)


 * It's a lot better with European languages, probably because they're a lot closer to English. The Babelfish translations of these pages on the Taiwaneses site mention Pakistan, Switzerland, Italy, Japan and the Iraqi Luo river, and refer to Melonni as "the proud cedar young gentleman". -- Gordon Ecker 20:11, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Gamespot and IGN articles
According to Gamespot there is one hero that can only be recruited if you have both Prophecies and Nightfall (probably Olias) and one hero that can only be recruited if you have both Factions and Nightfall (probably Zenmai). I hope there's more than one Factions hero, I'll be really disappointed if there's no Ritualist hero. According to Gamespot there are 12 heroes, while IGN says there are 14, according to both articles you can recruit the heroes you missed due to mutually exclusive recruitment quests once you've finished the campaign. The Gamespot article says that there are hero-specific skills, which are taught be hero trainers and bought with hero skill points that are apparently earned by advancing in sunsper rank. It isn't clear if this means that there are skills that can only be used by heroes, or if it only means that you can teach heroes skills you haven't unlocked. -- Gordon Ecker 04:40, 19 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Alex Weekes clarified how hero skill trainers work in this thread.
 * "OK, so here's what I can let you know about the article. Firstly, it is correct in that you do not have to pay gold to teach a new skill to a hero. Secondly, the information about unique hero-specific skills is wrong, there are no unique skills for heroes. The Hero Skill Trainers give you the opportunity to teach new skills directly to your heroes, meaning you aren't stuck with a skill-shortage on heroes who are a profession that you are not using (and have not used before)."
 * -- Gordon Ecker 02:22, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Only 12 Hero's Total
In a recent review on gamespot, they mentioned that there are 12 hero's. And 2 special hero's, each of these special hero's will be obtained in either prophecies or factions, making he total of 14 hero's.(ONLY if you have both Prophecies AND Factions) It has not been said which hero's are the 12, or which are the 2 specials. But some of the ones listed here are wrong. source.

The article states that once you beat the game, you can obtain all 12 hero's.(14 if you have factions and prophecies) --Mwpeck 19:14, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * While you may be correct, two things:
 * Articles like that have been wrong in the past (one PC Gamer article from a few months back said that Elite skills are always at the bottom of the capture window).
 * I'm reasonably certain that I saw more heroes than that when I was at the launch party earlier this week.
 * Now I may be wrong as I didn't actually play during the party but I thought I saw about 20 or so listed in the little drop down menu where you choose them. --Rainith 21:39, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It's possible that 10 of those slots were Razah, but I'm hoping for a Ritualist hero and more than one Mesmer, Dervish and Paragon hero. -- Gordon Ecker 22:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * ok, the Article on IGN also states 14 hero's(they could be stating 14 as if you have all the games). Though if you think about it there really should be more than 14. I would say 2 of each core profession, than maybe 2 dervish and paragon(and an assassin or rit can be obtained if you have factions). Either way, we will all see who the hero's are and their professions in less than a week. --Mwpeck 22:29, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Trailer #3
According to the trailer, I made a few changes:

1. Several Heroes naming conventions have been confirmed in the trailer, such as Zhed Shadowhoof. I've changed this. (see 1:48 of the trailer)

2. It's been pretty much confirmed that Kerak and Attoron aren't heroes. --Zinger314 21:56, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Maintained Enchantments
My heroes won't keep maintained enchantments up outside of battle. They don't cast them on their own while not fighting, and if you force them to cast with the control panel, they immediately drop them. Even when they use them during battle, they let them drop immediately when the battle ends. Can other confirm this is happening? Is this a "feature" or a bug? BigAstro 03:15, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I had a way to do it: Shift-click the enchantment.  This makes it so the hero doesn't change who it's on, remove it or anything like that.  Then have the hero cast it on the wanted targets.  They drop it outside of battle because they're wanting to manage their energy.  Craw 09:10, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, Craw is correct, i turned my tahlkoro into a bonder doing this, he can maintain a max of 10 enchants, but i use 8 (7 bonds, and balth spirit on himself). --Terrifi Cani 21:45, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Only difficulty I find is that my heroes tend to remove energy-management enchants when I idle too long (Succor, sometimes Balth spirit) Guess they don't see the use. Craw 09:14, 4 November 2006 (CST)
 * Not sure if thie holds in all cases. My Divine Boon monk never dismisses the boon. Skyreal 23:03, 16 November 2006 (CST)

Something as simple as healing breeze is a good example of enchantments that are not maintained. --CG 18:28, 26 December 2006 (CDT)

Razah is not a hero
People have been through the game and did not see him. He can't be unlocked through Balth Faction. So I removed him as a Hero.
 * The manual says he is. He may be PvE-only. Unless you've already done every single nightfall quest, you can't prove he's not recruitable. He might even be one of the rewards for completing the elite mission. Anyway, I've tagged it with dispute and research needed. -- Gordon Ecker 22:04, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * According to Gaile Gray Razah is a Hero, but hasn't been implemented yet, and will be added in an upcoming major update. (source) -- Gordon Ecker 21:37, 6 November 2006 (CST)

Armor
The Item's attribute +1 (Stacking) bonus on Hero headgear doesn't appear to be working. Also, does anyone know where you unlock new armour art for heroes? -- Gordon Ecker 23:27, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Have you tried adding a rune? once I've added a rune of blood, the +1 became +1 blood. Foo 00:14, 29 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It means that if you add a rune to that armorpiece, the attribute of that rune is boosted by 1. So if you add some major rune to the armor which normally gives +2, it now gives +3. --80.126.240.48 02:52, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Ritualist Hero?
Will there be any chance of a Ritualist Hero appearing? It's the only profession that doesn't have a hero. If there isn't that'd be slightly unfair... Lu Zon 03:43, 29 October 2006
 * You can probably make Razah a ritualist ... at least if they didn't take him out at the last minute. -- Gordon Ecker 03:50, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Goren's quest
I added that, but I forgot to be logged in. The quest is labeled "Part 1" but he joins you as a hero as a reward after it, so I'm not sure what the "Part 1" refers to. Maybe someone who has progressed further would know. Spectrus 16:01, 29 October 2006 (CST)
 * Ok, there is a quest labeled "Part 2", I didn't get it immediately after part 1, but it does exist. It's sort of amusing what it's about... Spectrus 14:19, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Starting weapons?
In the current layout for the Heros, there is no place for the starting weapons. I know the weapons will be replaces very fast, but I think it might be of some interest. So, how about change the area "Armor" into "Equipment" and place here the armor and the starting weapons? -- Balwin 05:03, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * Good idea. -- Gordon Ecker 02:19, 1 November 2006 (CST)

Infusion
Anyone know if / how heros can be infused? Just planning ahead. --JP 06:52, 30 October 2006 (CST)


 * I've infused them in iron mines, and their armor was taged "infused", but when I maped it was gone. that was a build or two ago thou. Foo 08:23, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * I tried so too. But it seem's it's not necesary. In the iron mines, I forgot the way and went into the Mursaat Area. The Espectral Agony worked on them like them being infused. I have two possibilities:
 * The game consider Heroes always infused.
 * They will be infused if you are.
 * They are still to be tested.
 * Mithran 06:30, 2 November 2006 (CST)
 * It appears that the Heroes are considered infused, I tried a run with Olias and Zenmai with two of my already infused characters, and the Seer stated that neither character had any more armor that needed infusing. No indication of infusion appeared on the Heroes armor, but they still didn't seem to suffer any of the uninfused effects of the Mursaat's agony skill. So at the least, if your character is already infused, it appears your heroes are as well, but more testing of this is necessary to confirm whether it is character related, or area related (such as henchies NOT being infused prior to Thunderhead Keep).HanokOdbrook 09:37, 2 November 2006 (CST)
 * I would like to know the answer to this as well. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 08:18, 4 November 2006 (CST)
 * They are infused by default. Doing the bonus to Ice Caves, you fight a few Jade and Mursaat. I noticed the heros took little damage from Agony when I sent them in ahead of me, and my character had not yet been infused at all. --Thervold 19:36, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Elementalist AI
Has anyone else noticed that heroes won't use Dragon's Stomp or Earthquake on their own even if they don't have exhaustion? My heroes won't use them even with Glyph of Energy. It can't be purely because of exhaustion, because Sousuke uses Meteor Shower. -- Gordon Ecker 23:25, 5 November 2006 (CST)
 * Oddly, when I have Zhed set up as an aeromancer he spams Chain Lightning whenever he can hit at least 2 targets with it until around 30 exhaustion. I guess it's just a problem with Dragon's Stomp and Earthquake. -- Gordon Ecker 05:33, 28 November 2006 (CST)

Has anyone else noticed that the heroes won't maintain Fire Attunement like they do with every other attunement spell and Aura of Restoration? Quite an annoying bug for an fire elementalist hero. 80.220.197.225 07:44, 23 December 2006 (CST)


 * Yes, I thought my Zhed didn't use it because I use Elemental Attunement for him aswell, and I thought he wasn't smart enough to use them both. But he never forgot Elemental Attunement, always Fire Attunement.
 * &mdash; Helena  [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 11:35, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Zenmai Bugs
Dunno about anyone else, but my Zenmai is a little messed up...for instance, her armor set gives a total of +2 energy regen, rather than the usual assassin's +1 energy regen...and she freezes completely anytime I go out on the Bukdek Byway...Anyone else having these problems? ~Avatarian 86 13:02, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * I'm having the same Bukdek Byway problems. I have a screenshot:
 * Zenmai Is Stuck! :( — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 14:13, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * The energy regeneration isn't a bug, Assassins get +2 energy regereration from their armour. -- Gordon Ecker 16:01, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * Assassin's have always gotten +2 regen from their armor, unless of course they're wielding zealous daggers. Maybe that's where Avatarian is getting confused. I did submit a /bug report about the freezing thing to A-Net though. Maybe I should go to their support site about it. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 16:39, 7 November 2006 (CST)

Getting heroes to target allies
Is there any way to get a hero to focus their buffs on a specific ally? Specifically, I'm trying to figure out how to get a monk hero to spam Protective Spirit on the suicidal monk in the Pogahn Passage mission. -- Gordon Ecker 18:12, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * You can't get them to just only target one specific ally, but if you want them to cast a certain spell on a certain ally, you click the little number beside their name in the party list; target the ally you want them to cast on; click the skill icon of the skill you'd like them to use on your target. It's that easy. May sound a little bit tiresome at first, but you get used to it and get really fast at it after a while. It's like controlling 3 characters at once. :) — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 18:54, 7 November 2006 (CST)

Hero skill points
Where can I see how many Hero skill points I have? Or.. they have. Haven't been able to find it anywhere.. &mdash; Stylva  02:29, 8 November 2006 (CST)
 * I think you can only see them by checking with a hero skill trainer. -- Gordon Ecker 02:50, 8 November 2006 (CST)

Customized Weapons
OK, so my hero(s) can use my customized weapons. Has anyone tested whether they get the 20% bonus?
 * Yes, Hero's can use your customized weapons. Whether they get the +20% damage as far as I'm aware is unknown right now. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 12:00, 15 November 2006 (CST)


 * I tested this, they do benefit for the 20% customized weapon. - Coran Ironclaw 02:07, 6 December 2006 (CST)


 * And also noting that Heroes won't be able to wield customized weapons from your other characters, only the character they're tied too. So for example your warriors customized weapon stash won't work on your ele's Koss.  --CKaz 13:03, 13 December 2006 (CST)

Loot
Do heroes share your loot, as henchmen does, or do you get their part of the loot? Are you able to farm with heroes? - Helena 20:20, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * They get their share of the loot just like henches. As for farming with heroes, it depends on what you're farming. -- Gordon Ecker 20:59, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * I meant like farming a greenie. -- Helena 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, some bosses are ridiclously easy to farm with the right heroes, others can't be done without ridiculous levels of micromanagement. -- Gordon Ecker 20:05, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Bug/Problem of Hero AI

 * Necro hero seldom(nearly never) use Blood Is Power. I think it is coz hero dun want to lose 33% hp


 * Hero cannot user echo & aracne echo properly. Eg, my Echo SS hero would like to use aracne echo on blood ritual but not SS, and the heros like to use signet after casting aracne echo. So Echo SS & Echo Meteor Storm hero does not work now. I should say the hero AI dun have the concept about using Echo & Aracne Echo.


 * The monk hero nearly never use party healing skills. It is becasue the hero monks AI dun have the concept about party healing(eg Heal Party, LoD )!! They dun know when should they use party healing, so they try to avoid using those skills all the time. I have tired to group with a hero monk which brings no skill except LoD, then I keep using blood of master to reduce my HP, and I found that the hero monk dun use LoD even my HP is nearly zero.

Hokit 22:14, 21 November 2006 (CST)
 * Asn hero cannot use combo properly.

User:Silent Sumo 17:06, 10 January 2007 (EST)
 * My necro hero(Master of Whispers) always rushes to the front line with me, instead of hanging back and being safe. I set him to guard mode,but he still does it.  Anyone know why?


 * Did you give the necro any touch or PBAoE skills? If so, that is most likely the reason.  Heroes seem to use touch/PBAoE first.  For an easy test to show this, give a Elementalist hero Inferno.  They will rush right in like a fighter, cast it, then die, because they won't leave the battle's front line.  This is also a main reason NEVER to give a monk hero Healing Touch. :(  Queen Schmuck 19:08, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Heroes never seem to use Healing Touch on anyone but themselves. I've done testing with Dunkoro and he wouldn't use it on me when I was dying, right next to him, with his other skills disabled. Capcom 23:22, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Bug/Problem with Hero starting weapons
So i gave my heroes better weapons, and wanted to get rid of the starting weapons - they can not be sold, not put into storage, and not tossed. Great, 12 heroes, 12 inventory slots lost? Thats not good.... Anyone got any idea how to get rid of these starting weapons? --Aron Squander 03:13, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Drag them to the trash icon near your bags/beltpouch on the inventory window. --Wil 03:17, 23 November 2006 (CST)

That works, thank you very much --Aron Squander 07:39, 23 November 2006 (CST)

Disabling usage of hero skills?
The article says that to prevent the hero in using one of his skills, one needs to shift-click the skill. However, whenever I hold SHIFT and left-click the hero skill on one of the hero mini-panels, a green check mark appears, the same one when you normally left-click a hero skill, and the hero executes the skill as soon as he can. In short, there is no effect when I SHIFT-click the skill as opposed to normal clicking the skill. I've tried CTRL-clicking, ALT-clicking, right-clicking, middle-clicking - all to no effect. Is there any other way of disabling usage of a certain hero skill? SeriousWorm 10:08, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Try in the K menu? [[Image:Hero disable.jpg]] &mdash; Skuld 10:10, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * I've also tried the Skills & Attributes window, aka the K menu, but to no avail - nothing happens when I click/SHIFT-click/CTRL-click/ALT-click the K menu. SeriousWorm 10:35, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Make sure that your chat box isn't active. It should be dark, with no flashing line. --70.50.140.74 11:21, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Oh nevermind, I figured it out. It's the fact that I rebound almost all the default binds, SHIFT being my "target nearest foe" key, and the "Supress Action" key was unbound. I now bound it to INSERT, so it's actually INSERT-click. :) Thanks for the help anyway. I think it should be mentioned however somewhere that it the SHIFT-click action is not hard-coded, but defined by your "Supress Action" hotkey which is bindable. SeriousWorm 11:25, 23 November 2006 (CST)

Exp While Dead
Do heroes gain experience when they're dead? If they do, does their proximity to the player matter? BigAstro 22:11, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * Just tested this by killing some lvl 20 monsters while my level 7 Koss was standing near. There were no other members in the party and I gained 100 xp for each kill. Koss didn't level up even after a multitude of kills. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 06:25, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * Further evidence: After dying, Koss had 3% DP removed per Hydra kill. While dead he had no DP removed after several Hydra kills. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 06:42, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * I didn't test it as well as that, but that was the same conclusion I came to. Thanks for taking the time to get a definitive answer. BigAstro 11:19, 8 December 2006 (CST)

Tyrians in Elona
Can Tyrian and Canthan characters on an account with Nightfall get heroes by travelling to Elona?--Mont 19:55, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yes. You skip all the training island and take a couple of primaries and an optional to get dunkoro, tahlkora, melonni, a zaishen and koss at low levels &mdash; Skuld 20:01, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks for the response. Do you mean that all the heroes are accessible, or just those five?--Mont 09:34, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * You get those five when arriving at Elona, the rest will join you according to the story, since you pick up the story from there. So you will have to play through Elona to get the rest. &mdash; Stylva  10:43, 26 November 2006 (CST)

Morale boost
Seems kinda obvious, but heroes don't gain a morale boost when you pay a statue to give you Favor of the Gods (2% morale boost). Dunno if we should mention it, or where. --Armond Warblade (talk) 01:13, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * The chanthan and elonian statues give morale for only the payer. I bet the tyrian statues will give them the boost, just as they give the boost to other party members. Foo 03:48, 26 November 2006 (CST)
 * ...Now I really wanna start playing in Tyria. I did not know that little tidbit of information. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:55, 28 November 2006 (CST) Edit: Think of it - a little over 1k gold to remove all DP from you and your heroes after dying twice! Course, the price is probably higher than the 75 gold in Cantha and Elona, but still.

Wierd BiP AI bug
For some strange reason my necro heroes will not use Blood is Power unless Blood Ritual is also on their skill bar. If the hero only has BR he'll use it, and if he has both BiP and BR he'll use both of them, but if he only has BiP he won't use it unless manually commanded to. I've tested this with both Olias and Master of Whispers, and will file a bug report tomorrow. -- Gordon Ecker 05:54, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * I've tested it with both my Monk and my Ritualist. They also won't use Blood is Power if Blood Ritual is on the skillbar but disabled. -- Gordon Ecker 06:16, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * Submitted. -- Gordon Ecker 18:27, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * I have investigate on this issue some weeks ago. I think(just a guess) the necro hero think losing 33% hp is too much & he have no self heal skill to recover the hp, that's why the necro hero nearly never use BiP & Blood Renewal.Hokit 21:13, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * It can't just be about health, because with both BR and BiP in their skill bars they will use both of them, sometimes even using BiP on someone already enchanted with BR. -- Gordon Ecker 21:25, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * It certainly has something to do with health. I took Olias out with nothing but BiP on his skill bar and attacked a suit of 60 armor. He would never use it, no matter what my energy level. I added Demonic Flesh to his bar and attacked the suit of armor again. Olias would use BiP, but (1) only while under the effects of Demonic Flesh, and (2) only after battle had ended, never during battle. -- bcstingg (talk • contribs) 14:59, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Signets
I'm having problems with Signet of Rejuvenation Namely, my monk refuses to use it, ever. I tried changing between aggressive, defensive, and passive, she still refuses to use it. Even with 2 energy, she wont use it. Which is quite frustrating, as it should be spammed religiously at all times. Can anyone confirm this bug or tell me how to fix it? I'm clicking heals manually here! :(Spayced 14:09, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * Let me add more detail of what I'm experiencing. This behavior is only happening with Tahlkora. She uses Signet of Devotion but only when her energy less than 5. If she is equipped with 10 energy skills and has 5 energy she will not use it while waiting for the energy. Dunkoro seems able to use Signet of Devotion and Signet of Rejuvenation fine. He uses Devotion perfectly but Rejuvenation still not as often as I'd like. No, the skill is not disabled.Spayced 14:23, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * Dunkoro Won't use Signet of Devotion to, atleast nog when placed on the 2e place. Not even when energy is <5. [O-T] &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.132.222.237 (contribs).
 * It's a shame that they don't use these well. Btw, the AI for Dunkoro and Tahlkora is the same so they behave exactly in the same way. Maby you had the skills in different skill slots? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 20:50, 14 January 2007 (CST)

Noticed differences between GW's "heroes guide" and actual usage of Hero Command and Hero Control Panel
Under Hero Command it says you need to double-click the flags to set destination points. You only need to click a flag once.

I've noticed that any time I single click a hero's skill, they will interrupt any skill they are presently activating and cast the requested skill. The requested skill is not queued as the "heroes guide" led me to believe after reading the part about double-clicking the skill to force its immediate action. Flesh Over Steel 17:48, 1 December 2006 (CST)

+41% weapon damage
Might I ask where this claim comes from? "Heroes attacking with a weapon deal 41% more damage than a player with the same stats and items." I see nothing regarding how this conclusion was reached. I assume it was tested at the Battle Isles, but I'd just like someone to confirm it (and the +20% from customisation as well). Capcom 19:43, 5 December 2006 (CST)

I agree. This sounds very farfetched to me.


 * I've been thinking about that. If I had the ability to do so I'd go find a way to test this. (I'm thinking make a Hero and a player with the same items/runes/armor, and then go have them attack a dummy for a while, counting the damage they do over a time period of, say, five minutes to eliminate luck bonuses.) --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:27, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * Using Wild Blow in Scrimmage would work. -- Gordon Ecker 21:37, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * How do you mean? --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * A player and a hero with 16 Scythe Mastery take max customized 15^50 scythes into scrimmage, preferably against an opponent with no armor for more accurate results. Each uses Wild Blow, resulting in an automatic critical. If the claim is correct, the hero should do ~41% more damage. -- Gordon Ecker 22:01, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * Oh. Cool. I missed the bit about crits. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:23, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * I tested this some time ago, The claim about heroes do 41% more damage is correct. The method i used is the same, wild blow on a scrimmage on an ele guildie as dummy, that way we could know exactly the amount of damage.- Coran Ironclaw 02:11, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Assuming that rather incredible result is correct, how do we now that it extends to all hits and not just critical hits? I'd think a 41% damage bonus on every hit would have very, very obvious and noticable effect in PvE that I'm not seeing. 128.252.249.58 13:28, 6 December 2006 (CST)


 * i will try to do some tests with a candy axe. - Coran Ironclaw 15:47, 6 December 2006 (CST)
 * Its closer to 42% or 43% but definitely below 45%. I dealt 49 damage with wild blow and my hero setup the same exact way dealt 70 damage (16 swordsmanship, 15^50 sword with +20% customized no other mods - they were both pvp characters). I think this needs to be bug reported because its like this in PvP which makes warrior/assassin/ranger/etc heroes incredibly imbalanced. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png|Chuiu]] (T/C) 23:35, 6 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hey, 41% - 43% extra damage in PvE! I'm not complaining! :) --Shadow Lord 22:17, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Ok, first apologies for not answering here about my edit and thanks to the people who did and confirmed the bug. I originally posted about that issue here []. If you can't read it, don't worry, there's nothing in it that hasn't been mentioned here except for a few numbers. Copypasta: Axe with 12 Axe Mastery and 0 Strength: My numbers: Uncustomized: 45 damage (28 + 15% (15^50) + 41.4% (critical hit)). Customized: 55 damage (28 + 15% (15^50) + 20% (Customized) + 41.4% (Critical)).

Koss' numbers: Uncustomized: 64 damage (28 + 15% (15^50) + 41.4% (critical hit) + 41% (???)). Customized: 77 damage (28 + 15% (15^50) + 20% (Customized) + 41.4% (critical hit) + 41% (???)).

And hitting the targets in the training area with candy cane weapons:

Axe (10 damage, 14 on a critical): Me: 37 hits + 8 critical hits = 482 damage Assa hero: 25 hits + 7 critical hits = 348 damage

Hammer (15 damage, 21 on a critical): Me: 25 hits + 5 critical hits = 480 damage Assa hero: 13 hits + 7 critical hits = 342 damage

Bow (15 damage, 21 on a critical): Me: 28 hits + 3 critical hits = 483 damage Assa hero: 16 hits + 5 critical hits = 345 damage

348 damage should not be enough to kill something with 480 HP ... but if you add 41% to these values ... 348+41% = 491 342+41% = 482 345+41% = 486

or the other way round:

348+37.93% = 480 342+40.35% = 480 345+39.13% = 480 That's it. The tests were done on 2006-11-14. Didn't have much time to play (or read Guildwiki) so I didn't retest it after that. --SET 21:09, 10 December 2006 (CST)

I've been doing some unaccurate tests and so far they've beat me in killing the 60 armor dummy 6 out of 6 times.


 * Do minions get the damage bonus as well? ArcaneApostle 04:13, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Maintained Enchantments with Heroes
Is it me or do Hero's AI just simply refuse the use of Maintained Enchantments. Each time iv had one cast a maintained enchantment such as Mending or Life Bond, it Immediately canceled it. Most times you dont even see the enchantment go up on you before its canceled. Raisu 21:53, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * You're right, they will only use most maintained enchantments in combat, and will end them as soon as combat's over. In order to get them to maintain an echantment you need to disable it and then manually order the hero to cast it on someone. -- Gordon Ecker 22:21, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * With exceptions. Such as Healer's Boon.--Silk Weaker
 * And Divine Boon. -- Gordon Ecker 21:24, 10 December 2006 (CST)


 * Nuh-uh. I've had to have my Tahlkora disable Vital Boon cause she was using it on randoms. Wouldn't use it more than once, I believe, but I didn't want her getting the energy degen, and I forced her to use it on me after I got DP. But anyway, she would use it without prompting (granted, not too well, but it would be used). She's ph34r with Divine Boon, though. I'm thinking maintained enchantments that can only target the caster (read: Healer's and Divine Boon) they use just fine. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Item spells
It is impossible to direct your hero to drop an item created from an item spell. This effectively makes many ritualist skills useless. Perhaps these things are why Anet decided to screw us by not really providing us with a ritualist hero attainable by the common player (and taking away the variable hero for elite players). --71.253.59.67 23:17, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * These sorts of hero features are either hard to implement or have been forgotten. This is just one example. Go and try Raisu Palace with heroes. There is no way to hav ethe heroes take the celestial skill. I hope all of these things will be fixed sooner or later. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:58, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Does redoing missions give XP to heroes who haven't done the mission yet?
Basically, do heroes gain mission XP only when you gain mission XP, or on their first run through the mission? My Tyrian character just got the newb heroes from Elona, and I want to level them up in the most painless way possible. &mdash;Tanaric 17:47, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * Dunno, but here's two words for you...Nolani Academy....>.> --Blastedt(Talk) 17:48, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * Only when you gain exp. I ran my heroes through the first five Prophecies missions and (because I was Factions char) received no mission xp. Heroes didn't level up either. Entropy 23:41, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * I stand corrected. Just did Chahbek Village last night with the same Canthan character. I got the message, "You are about to relive events in Istan prior to your arrival in Kamadan." so I figured no exp. Got Master's Reward, and guess what? One of my Heroes leveled up, and I got 3000xp + 3 skillpoints or whatever the Master's reward is. So I guess the rule only applies to Prophecies missions...?
 * Further tests - I'm going to go back to Shing Jea and redo Minister Cho's Estate, Masters. I know I won't gain xp, but I want to see if heroes do. 24.6.147.36 10:56, 14 January 2007 (CST)

Unspent Attribute Points
Koss, at least, screams at you if he has more than 15 unspent attribute points in a mission in Team Chat. Amusing as I farmed Charr in Nolani for him. >.> --Blastedt(Talk) 18:06, 16 December 2006 (CST)


 * Interesting. I had Koss, Tahlkora, and Dunkoro (in that order) as my heroes. All of them got around three or four levels (they were newb heroes >.>) and yet only Dunkoro complained about it. And he was the last one in the line, too. You'd think it'd go from first to last, but no... Armond
 * It appears to a random thing when you enter an instanced area. I've seen such reminders for my Koss and Dunkoro, but did not for my Melonni or Jin (despite an underspent Melonni being in the same party as an underspent Koss). -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 22:45, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've had all three of them bug me when they had unspent points. I guess it is either random or...well, random. Heh. Also, they will poke you if you enter an explorable area with no skills equipped and/or no weapon equipped. Entropy 23:40, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Zoning
If you command your heros to zone, they go through, then reappear on top of you, then move into formation, sadly. They do not follow the flag again until you reset it. &mdash; Blastedt(Talk) 19:58, 22 December 2006 (CST)
 * Not exclusive, that happens to regular Henchmen as well. In The Dragon's Lair, though, you can actually send them through the portals ahead of you. >.> Entropy 04:22, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Hero Equipment Template
I don't know how useful anyone will find this, but since it is already created, might as well make it public.

User:Queen_Schmuck/Hero_Inv

I created a hero eq template, because, depending on the number of PvE charactors you have, keeping track of what hero needs what (weapons/insginias/runes) is likely to give you a headache. With this template, I can keep track of everything a hero has, including the pet. If I then find something that might come in handy for a hero, I can quickly look up the hero on the page and tell if any of them need it (say, a shiny new Ghail's Staff). At this time, the template is just a table with all heros built in.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to make this easier to use and wiki friendly (no javascripts, right?), I am very open to suggestions. The ideal change to the template would be to just click on a cell and enter the new information in. I am not a web dev, but I would assume this would take a script and a cookie, or at least some kind of server side code.

This is how I have set up a user page with my charactors and their heros. It is nowhere near completed. User:Queen_Schmuck/Hero_Inv

Use it freely if you want it, ignore it if you don't want it. Queen Schmuck 17:18, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * This is a GREAT idea! Your idea of the clickable boxes might be doable with javascript, but you should ask someone more familiar with the wiki and javascript compatibility. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:24, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * I changed the table a little, adding a customized option for the weapon, along with greying out the spots for elite armor for heroes unable to get it. I might have changed some other things too, not sure.  Check page history for details (all done in one big edit).  I was also thinking about seperating the Hero class as a different column, but it works as it is for now.  If requested, I can make that change too.  All in all, I am 80% happy with the table.  Editing it isn't as hard as I thought it would be, once you get over being cross-eyed from all the "|| " in there. LOL  Queen Schmuck 02:06, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Wow! That's a huge table... no... tableS... how much time did you spend on it? Heh, I remember when I was mucking around and learning about tables and templates. Wasted a couple of hours setting things up for my unlocks. Would you mind if I play around with it (I'll make a copy when I get around to it)? I'm thinking that setting up some templates would help alot. (Warning: Template amateur :P) -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 02:49, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah, the table is huge. I just finished adding everything except for pets for my Emonk Ia charactor (and got many more minutes of drunk time in while doing it).  If you put something in the wrong cell, it is easy enough to preview the page, then move it back or forward to where it should be.  Play with it all you want. The only table that you need on that page is the last one, labeled "Template".  Tables are not that hard to get used to, even for a network admin like myself.  :P  The problem is filling them in (normally which scripts/programs do automagically).  It only took a few minutes to create the table itself, but I have updated it a few times now, so maybe 15 minutes total work on it.  By far, entering in the information takes the lion's share of the time spent on it.  Queen Schmuck 06:02, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Since the hero change (start with level 15s)
Anyone work with the heroes and the NF path you take since the levels boost (foreign chars)? Seems to be a lot of logistic problems with that IMO, like characters who already had the low level heroes but not progressed in the game further now slam into missions that well surpass those heroes in tow. But beyond that, the damage... I gave a new (foreign) character's level 15 Koss the better weapon and shield (you're handed better stuff) but he does absolutely pathetic damage when doing any at all. I plan to do some tests, I'm not sure what is going on, he took a very long time to kill the level 2s in the tactician quest, and other low level riff-raff =b --CKaz 16:19, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * I don't know about the change in damage done. This might be because I quickly swap out the starter gear they get, or that all my heros were acquired before the 2006-12-20 update.  I did find it highly annoying that on my charactors that had not powerleveled the heros up yet, my low level heros are still low level.  Queen Schmuck 16:28, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Just for future readers, this bug was fixed in the January 11th, 2007 update. The weapons given by Kormir no longer deal 0 damage. Prior to the update, no matter your rank in the weapon's mastery, they would always deal 0 damage. However, attack skills still caused some damage due to the way the damage formula worked. Entropy 23:39, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Unlocked Armor
Quick question on this part since I haven't gotten to unlock any armor for my heroes yet. Does this unlock work for the entire account or just for that character? Like if my Necro unlocks a Koss armor, will it also be unlocked for my Monk? I figured probably not but might as well ask. --RabiesTurtle 23:50, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Since the proper term is upgrade rather than unlock, it's not account-wide. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 00:22, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * From the Hero page- "In addition to the default appearance, each hero has an additional armor style that can be unlocked." On top of that, most other things you get for your hero do call it Unlocked despite only being for the current character. Notice that you "unlock" each hero for each of your characters.  However, I am not asking for what the terms refer to though, I am asking for someone who has actually done it and what it did for them. --RabiesTurtle 00:34, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, I thought they used the same terms, sry. It was "upgrade" on the individual hero pages. And I was saying that getting an upgrade is not an account-wide change, it's character-based. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 00:48, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * No problem, but I do know what you mean. What I am saying is I want confirmation based on testing and not just on which term is used. You might have seen it in another page or tested it yourself, but I basically just want someone to say Yes or No depending on an actual test --RabiesTurtle 01:05, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Umm... Yes, they're character-based. I thought I mentioned that in all my previous responses. :) And that's very much confirmed and tested. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 02:03, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * I second the confirmation the hero armor is character based, not for the entire account. And another thing, you need to get to the elite mission location just to change their armor.  So even when you "unlock" the upgraded armor for your current character's hero, you have to go back to the armor upgrade guy if you ever decide to change the hero armor back to normal (why?).  There isn't a button or switch on the hero screen to say "use this armor".  Queen Schmuck 04:18, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * On a related note, if you apply a rune(/insignia) to a hero's armor, and then switch to a different style, does he/she retain the rune(/insignia) on the new style? - Lord Ehzed 08:42, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, Runes and Insignia stay. Hero armor styles are just like dye in that aspect. You can change them as often as you like, it's just the looks that are changed, not actually a new set of armor. --84-175 (talk) 08:52, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Hero skill bar prioritization
"The hero AI prioritizes the left-most skills in their skill bar.." - has this been tested? How and where are the results from the tests?


 * Easy way to show it. Put both Heal Area and Karei's Healing Circle on a monk (dup skills).  From what I saw, the monk will use the left-most skill (say to heal minions), and rarely use the right-most one (Heal Area was to the left with Healing Circle just to the right when I tried it).  One thing I didn't try was to swap the skills left-to-right, so there is a possiblity that the AI prioritizes certain dup skills over others, but I do not believe that is the case.  Queen Schmuck 15:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * I don't think you did enough testing. I took Dunkoro out with nothing but Heal Area and Karei's Healing Circle, and used Blood is Power to sac my health. Dunkoro showed no preference for one skill over the other. At first, it appeared that he was showing a preference for the leftmost skill (Heal Area), but then he used Healing Circle several times in a row. Reversing the order of the skills made no difference. I then took Dunkoro out with two different skills, one of which has a conditional bonus -- Orison of Healing and Word of Healing. Orison was the leftmost skill. On the first sac, he used Word of Healing, even though it was not the leftmost skill and he could not make use of the conditional bonus. He continued to use the skills in a seemingly random fashion to heal me at varous levels of health. I think this proves that the leftmost theory is just an illusion. -- bcstingg (talk • contribs) 11:49, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * You're probably right about not enough testing, as I only did my above test for about 5 minutes. Here is a new test I did (nothing about left-right priority, but more to do with conditional skills. I have Dunkoro Orison of Healing, Words of Comfort, and Dwayna's Kiss (and in that order left to right).  I then went to the Isle of the Nameless.  When not fighting or getting attacked by the enemies with conditions, Dunkoro would only use Orison.  If I was fighting or getting attacked, he would only use Words of Comfort.  While hexed at the -1 regen Torch of Hexes, Dunkoro would only cast Orison to heal me, completely ignoring the fact that Dywana's Kiss would heal for more health (90 vs 67). Dunkoro would ouly heal my character when the health was down by 58 HP, which happened to be 10% (which is probably the health loss required to trigger AI healing). **  Interesting Note #1 ** I then changed the skills order right to left (Dywana's was left, Orison was right).  He used the skills the exact same manner as he did before, so order on skill bar had nothing to do with it. **  Interesting Note #2 ** After a few minutes of fighting the Student of Disease, Dunkoro started misbehaving.  Even though Words of Comfort was not recharging (hadn't been used for over 8 seconds), Dunkoro started using Dwayna's Kiss.  The only thing I had on my char was Disease, no hexes or enchantments.  A few minutes later, Dunkoro then started to randomly pick a spell to heal me with, with no pattern appearing.  This was with reversed order of the healing spells, with Dwayna's Kiss on the left.   BTW, I had Dunkoro flagged away from the allies with conditions. My conclusion now is that order on bar does not appear to make a difference, and that at least the monk hero AI isn't always smart about which conditional healing spell to use.  Queen Schmuck 18:16, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * I did the same test using the hex torch, and noticed that Dunkoro would only use Orison. He also used it when I'd lost 10% health (44 HP for me), so I think you're right about that being a threshold. However, if I sacced my health below 10% using BiP, Dunkoro would usually, but not always, go for Dwayna's Kiss first. But what's interesting is that he also did this when I wasn't hexed or enchanted, even though Dwayna's Kiss heals for less in that case. Thus it seems they've programmed the AI to understand "Dwayna's Kiss usually heals for more", but it doesn't understand the conditions that need to be met. -- bcstingg (talk • contribs) 17:22, 19 January 2007 (CST)

The article
At the moment this article is a real mess and is in need of a lot of work. Is there any rason to keep the parts directly copied from the official guide for example? I will improve the article part by part over time if no one else does. -- (talk) 03:07, 11 January 2007 (CST)

The order of W chars
I put Koss first, as he is the Warrior you get first. I didn't think about list being in alpha order. I didn't put Olias first in necro line, as you need Prophecies to get him, and I guess Master of Whipspers is also first in alpha order too. lol Queen Schmuck 22:38, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * If (when) future campaigns include heroes, we need to rewrite a lot of this article, an dchanging them to abc order is easy to do then. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Healing Pets
"Hero monks will heal pets, which is annoying if they are needed for corpses." - ...duh? Why wouldn't someone with healing skills heal an ally? They heal minions and others that aren't even on the party menu as ally. Removed because it's both a pointless note and extremely biased. (I for one am HAPPY of such a thing. Lousy pet haters...) Capcom 05:24, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * It deserved to be removed. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 05:25, 12 January 2007 (CST)