Talk:Mhenlo

Oops, forgot to check that the Fire Islands link worked... :) IMO 'Ring of Fire Islands' should be moved to 'Fire Islands' (or Isles), this is what Arenanet calls them. --Midk 09:43, 8 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Where does Arena Net call them that? In the game they are called "The RRRing of Firrrre island" as King Jalis says. :) --Karlos 10:03, 8 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Haha. :) Is that a direct quote? For one, here, it reads "...Three new collectors will be present in the Fire Island Chain...". Checking the game manual, though, there's a page on the "Ring of Fire Island Chain". Hm. I've seen it referred to as "Fire Islands" in more places, but I can't remember at the moment... well, never mind, if it's in the manual, it's OK, I say. I swear it was "Fire Islands" just a few weeks ago when I was arguing about whether it was RoF or Fire Islands with someone... I was saying RoF, he was saying Islands.. I finally gave in, but I guess now I can tell him I was right. :) --Midk 10:12, 8 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * It's the corny dialog at the end of the Thunderhead Keep mission. When the Vizier says the players have to go to the Ring of Fire islands, the King says "The Rrrrring of Firrre??!!" In a fake Scottish accent. :) --Karlos 10:17, 8 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Right. :) I'm seeing lots of contradiction here actually.. the manual says "Ring of Fire Island Chain" and also says that the islands "make up the Ring of Fire". The art-book that comes with the collector's edition supposedly says "Fire Islands", as well as the references in update notes and the like to "Fire Islands"... well, at the least, I'll make a Fire Islands page that redirects to RoF (location).. It's impossible to tell which one Arenanet uses, then, I guess either work. --Midk 10:25, 8 Sep 2005 (EST)

Quotes?
Nuble just devised a "Quotes" section in Mhenlo's page. Is this something we want to have? I thin it is highly subjective and highly unnecessary, not to mention that not a single NPC in the game (with the exception of perhaps Rurik) will be remembered a year from now. --Karlos 14:30, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I think it isn't necessary and it doesn't add much, but it doesn't hurt either. Keep 'em. --Tetris L 15:32, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * There is an inherent problem with highly subjective content (such as "memorable quotes" and "the hardest mission ever") in that if we allow it, then it becomes a battle field of edits. Every Tom, Joe and Molenin will edit the page and put in their perspective and then delete others' and modify and all of a sudden the page is a jungle. This is why I like to keep subjective content to a minimum. We may lack "color" and "fanfare" but we will remain credible. Cynn has a colorful character, But Mhenlo and Aidan are two very forgettable NPCs. --Karlos 15:43, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * That, on the other hand, is just your opinion. ;)
 * Seriously: Off course you are right that we should avoid subjective content. But NPC quotes is really not a controversial topic that will cause a "battle". Most users won't even take notice of the paragraph. No harm done IMHO. --Tetris L 15:50, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Sure it's only my opinion... That's more proof that it's subjective. So, while you believe it's harmless, I believe it is a precedent. He added a section into the page. I would like to think there is a system to how and what we do here. This links back to the categorical difference in view between you and me on how this site should operate. So, I'll keep the debate there when I respond on the Main Talk Page. But for now, I think it defies consistency of structure, for the sake of something you describes as irrelevant. What's to stop User:Molenin from editing this page and adding a section called "Funny things I did with Mhenlo" and then another section "Dumb Mhenlo moments" and how about a "Mhenlo death count (number of times Mhenlo died in my party)!!" --Karlos 16:09, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * 1. Off course objectiveness should be our goal, but I think we all know that in reality few things are black or white. The world is mostly shades of grey. You think the term "tank" is reserved for warriors, I think it can also be an elem or necro. There you go ...
 * 2. Never forget that this is a Wiki - open for all users. This is what makes Wikis so fast and flexible, but also "chaotic" to some degree. It must be possible for an average user to create and edit articles without having to read through 20 pages of rules and instructions first. Sure it would be nice if all articles follow a common "system". But then we'd have to "close" the Wiki and make it a standard website like GWGuru or GWonline.net, maintained only by an admin team, not by a community of users. My point? I think we don't need a rule for everything here. --Tetris L 23:08, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Personal philosophy is not exactly a compelling argument, is it? Your personal perception of the ration of black, white and grey in the world is not binding to anyone else. Personally, I see a lot more blue. :)
 * Having a system does not conflict with having users edit. See Wikipedia. They have a TON of rules. The trick is that, it's not expected of the average contributors (whoare the heart of the wiki) to know them. User:Molenin makes an edit and goes away. The veteran contributors, they examine his edit and if it hold up to the rules, they leave it, if not they change it or delete it. Likewise, I am not saying he never should have done it, I am saying, are we Okay with it? I am not, you don't care, no one else answered, so I am removing it. --Karlos 08:09, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * eh, haha, i was playing my alt earlier and was doing one of the ascalon quests, when i saw mhenlo saying that. i thought it was pretty sweet, probably because i don't remember seeing it while playing through my first char. keep it, remove it, i don't really mind either way, but i don't get why karlos compares "Quotes" with ""Funny things I did with Mhenlo"/"Dumb Mhenlo moments"/"Mhenlo death count". "Quotes" is not equal to "Things Mhenlo said to me". Mhenlo is one of the major characters in the GW story, and his dialogues will not differ between plays/players, he will say the same thing no matter who's doing the quest. Nuble 22:14, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Yeah, Mhenlo is pretty major alright in the story. You can like do the whole game without even looking at him (let alone talking to him once) and you'd be just fine. :) The sentence you "caught a glimpse of" is actually part of the dialog between him, Cynn and the guard who fled the caravan. After they're done talking to the guard, Cynn gives you the Caravan in Trouble quest. --Karlos 22:29, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * of course i know where i got that quote, so your point? you always seem to ask "why" when you don't agree with something, though wikis mostly go by the "why not" rule. Nuble 22:47, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * On the contrary, I always explain why not. I did not ask "why" you added a quotes section. I said "I don't like it and here is why..." My point is always going to be about process and objectivity. I'd like the pages to be as "processbased" as possible and as objective as possible. The addition of "quotes" violates both, so it makes like lose sleep at night and stuff. :) Keep in mind that recording that dialog between them is part of what goes on in the game and posting it here is by all means a service. But taking a sentence from the dialog and posting it as memorable quote is not the best way in my opinion. --Karlos 23:11, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * you always speak of consistency. what is Notes doing in this article while other NPC articles(Devone, Alesia) have "Tips" instead? Nuble 23:30, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Is this a therapy session? I notice you have been "analyzing me" for the past two postings. I would appreciate it if you refrain from this. Go ahead and make one of them like the other. There is still a ton of inconsistencies in the site. The goal is to work them all out but we are not there. --Karlos 23:40, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Your statement, Karlos, that "wikis mostly go by the 'why not' rule," is an example of a personal viewpoint, a subjective opinion... My experience has been otherwise. There is a whole lot of, in my opinion, ridiculous add-ons like "dumbest mhenlo moments" or "number of times i've played air guitar next to mhenlo's dead body," that could be avoided by a "why," instead of wasting countless time bickering about "why not." A true wikipedian, while writing, anyway, strives to use NPOV- which encompasses "why" and "why not," to create a system of inclusion/exclusion that leaves a well-endowed article, informing the reader about the topic without flooding him with junk.
 * Remember, you can still discuss your "dumb mhenlo moments" on forums, which there are plenty of, and the forum posters would be more receptive than your average Wikipedian. -Auron of Joo 18:42, 22 February 2006 (CST)
 * Well, this is not wikipedia, and you are commenting on a horse that's pretty dead... And his "why not" isn't a rhitorical one, he's saying "why we shouldn't do this".  The only two ways you can avoid ridiculous add-ons using a "why" is either employing a rhitorical "why?" and not get and answer, or explain "why" we shouldn't have it, in which case it becomes Karlos' "why not".  From this perspective the rhitorical "why?" is more like bickering to me.  My 2 cents. -PanSola 23:24, 22 February 2006 (CST)

Smiting Prayers
Not strange that he doesn't use any, he is a healer henchman after all.. 05:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Those who can't do, teach? -PanSola 17:33, 12 February 2006 (CST)

Factions story
Shall we place a spoiler tag on his page and explain his role in bringing the Luxons and Kurzicks together? If I hear no opposition, I shall proceed. I assume that, in the full game, this part will be in the latter areas of the game. --Karlos 09:46, 29 March 2006 (CST)
 * And maybe a spoiler tag over this comment! -- Dashface 05:03, 7 May 2006 (CDT) (the previously unaware)

Mhenlo, Macdaddy Henchman
This screenshot had me rolling in the corridors:



&mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 16:21, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Mhenlo sure is a player, but when is this guy gonna get a rest? I tell you... Eve must be all Blood Ritual'd out by now...

Behaviour
This section title brings up a question. Does this wiki care about which English spellings (American and British) are used? Should the be used interchangeably or is one standard? I would edit this title to be "Behavior" but I don't know the answer to this question. It doesn't bother too much because I know they are equally valid spellings. It just depends on the side of the pond you are on. But seriously, is there a standard for the wiki? -- James Sumners 10:27, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * American is the more popular convention, but as long as it's not an in-game term, not an article title, and stays consistent throughout one article, it doesn't really matter. -169.237.5.204 11:08, 28 April 2006 (CDT)

to quote things out of context...
"Mhenlo was born in Serenity Temple by a male priest of Dwayna"

Even after reading the rest of the sentence, it still strikes me as odd. -PanSola 17:22, 4 May 2006 (CDT)


 * From | the official bio, "Born in Serenity Temple to a priest of Dwayna and priestess of Balthazar, Mhenlo has been steeped in the teachings of healing and smiting magic." If you can reword that without plagiarizing, then it would certainly be a good idea to change the sentence. That is very poor english. -- James Sumners 09:13, 5 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I just edited, changing it to "born to" -- makes more sense IMO. --Delia Rashesh (talk) 09:21, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

Known attribute levels
I was considering adding a "Known attribute levels" subheading, see Eve (and the talk page for Lina), as Mhenlo seems to have 12 in Divine Favor. However, this is based only of my hiring of him in Perdition Rock, and he is available in many more areas than most henchmen. Does he have reduced levels elsewhere, or even increased levels in Cantha? -- Dashface 05:05, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

New Staff?
I noticed that Mhenlo has a different Staff in Factions than he did in Prophecies. Im not sure what kind of staff it is but could that be added to the factions secton of his article? I just noticed because i love the staff.--Coloneh 21:16, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, of course we could, but not necessary I think. You must've noticed the Armament part further up. That belonged to the henchmen version of Mhenlo in Prophecies, not the NPC version. In Factions, Mhenlo is never a henchman. Most NPCs don't have it either. Also, since you also can't identify it, it doesn't really help much by adding another "Armament: Staff" line to the article. But if you can identify it, then yes, adding it is fine. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:33, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's a Winged Staff. -Savio 01:53, 19 September 2006 (CDT)

Skills
Anyone notice different skill sets being used in different campaigns? I know Mhenlo uses Renew Life in Nightfall. Maybe we should include a way of stating differences in skill sets in different campaigns.

Regarding split
I've added the split suggestion to the 5 "Core henchmen" that appear in all campaigns so far, because I feel their articles are becoming too hard to read, and it's not much of a stretch to assume that these 5 will appear in future campaigns as well. With their respective articles broken up by campaign, I believe the missing info would be filled in more quickly and the articles would be more accessible. --RolandOfGilead 04:13, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah, sure. But just a reminder, Mhenlo isn't a henchmen in Factions. How do you plan on interlinking them? add a little italicized note at the top to point to other campaigns? Maybe we can use a template of some sort. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 04:39, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Interlink could be done with 5 modified Template:CampaignsNavBox. I like the look of these. --RolandOfGilead 06:27, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I disagree with the split. This is the lazy and incoherent approach. The article needs to be ccleaned up and all the loose bits and pieces tied together. Also, the Nightfall henchie has Renew Life, not Restore Life. Story-wise, it's the same NPC progressing through the story. NPC-wise, the changes are not that big, just a few skills different here and there. I think the dialog section is a big mess. --Karlos 04:42, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * The dialog are going to be even messier in Nightfall, because as far as I can tell, the idle dialog lines change frequently depending on the storyline progression, resulting in quite large dialog sections. How do you suggest to clean up the article then, without split? --RolandOfGilead 06:19, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I also disagree with splitting this --FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.gif]] 18:45, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * One way I can think of to clean up the dialogue and quotes is to move them to a subpage. Since some of the dialogue in Factions contain spoilers, it might not be a bad idea to just link to the dialogue and quotes page. As for the idle quotes changing, I can only confirm that's true for the heroes, not yet for the henchmen. If we are not splitting, I'm against any attempt to group information from different campaigns into the same sections. I would think it's logical that all information should be split according to campaigns. And in that case (since we have opposers to the split), there's nothing much that can be cleaned up. I suppose we could add "top" links so that it's easier to get back to the table of contents. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:14, 28 November 2006 (CST)