User:RoseOfKali/talk/Archive5

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Rare mini pricecheck please!
If anyone knows the recent going prices for the purple ultra-rare minis, I'd really like to know. Heard that Grawl was about 100+20 - 100+35. No clue on the other three or if this one is correct... Anyone know? Thx. RoseOfKali 19:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, pricecheck all of these if you can.

If you have a different price than one that's listed, please post your in addition, do not remove the previous. Add your source if you can, like did you see it for sale or just heard a pc or saw someone buying. All undedicated please. Thx much. RoseOfKali 19:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Greased Lightning - 1000e pc
 * Polar Bear - 1500-1750e pc
 * Vizu - 450e pc
 * Kanaxai - $5,000 USD on ebay... O_O
 * Ghostly Hero - 1100e for sale... 1500e pc... 1000-1750e pc
 * Shiro'ken Assassin - 800e for sale... 650e pc
 * Zhed Shadowhoof
 * Island Guardian
 * Panda
 * Grawl - 100k+19e bought
 * Longhair Yeti - 130e pc, 150e pc, 180e offer
 * Naga Raincaller - 130e pc, 220e for sale, 370e for sale
 * Oni - 200e for sale, 250e pc, 100k+70e (90e) for sale ded, 300e for sale, 333e offer, 430e for sale


 * Don't pin me on it, but I think the prices for naga, oni and yeti are way to low. I think the naga is around ten times as much, but I am not sure. I have neaver seen a polar bear being sold, but I don't do things on e-bay. The rest of the mini's are bound to be very expansive, count on price around 500e - 1200 e.

1 tip though. Go and stand in Kamadan america 1 for a while and ask ppl for prices on these mini's. you'r bound to get some responces. Say so if the things i say here are mad ravings, so i can get my brain straigt. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 11:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I already knew about Kamadan, but I don't feel like wasting time there. Anything up in the list that says "for sale" are prices that I have seen people selling them for, so your price estimate for Naga is either really really wrong, or the seller I saw was an idiot.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:18, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I wouldn't even conceive the idea of buying a mini on Ebay, the Kanaxai bit was just something I find hilarious. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked and asked around a bit. Greased Lightning 1000e; Ghostly Hero 1000e-1750e; Polar Bear 1500e-1750e. Hope it help. I can't even imagine having more then half a stack of ectos @_@ &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 13:29, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks... O_O *realizes she needs to start ecto farming like there's no tomorrow* RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I asked to be told if my ravings were mad. And they are! (YAY!) But I only have memories of Naga's and stuff being so expensive. And i was kinda right about the rest of the mini's XD Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 10:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

please see...
Talk:Necromancer Tyrian armor/Male - I did a random search for my username in mainspace and found your comment in the stub tag on that article. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 01:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Necromancer armor galleries
Please see User:Dr ishmael/Sandbox - I changed the template to set a fixed height, instead of a fixed width, for the images, so those galleries will look just fine in the template now. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 14:27, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed height? Sounds familar... ;-P --◄mendel► 14:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "INAFR!" ? ^^ --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Ishmael. I didn't even think about that.  And just to think, I was the one who "lobbied" for fixed height in the profession armor reference pages, like Necromancer armor, etc.  I think I'm getting dumber since I finished college...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 23:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah...
"...I think I'm gonna go plant a bomb in D.C. and go out with a "bang" if nothing else... :(" --> I suggest taking that off your page before the government sees it and marks you as a terrorist.. Mitch Spiritslayer 18:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Too late. ;)--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ  18:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * She did at least acknowledge it wasn't a real threat, eh? :P [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 18:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah... But can you blame me? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 23:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Necromancer armor
Hello, I have a question about the male necromancer elite scars armor. What would you consider a "complete" gallery for that? The scars don't dye(the speedo doesn't either) and they look different on different skin tones. Thanks. Wanmoke 20:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC) Wanmoke


 * Well, actually, they don't look different on different skin tones at all. They are black, and so they're easy to see on light skin, and hard to see on dark, that's all.  It's kind of like the Istani/Sunspear armors that have a shaded skin area that you can only see on light skin.  I would suggest doing that gallery on a light-skinned character, and noting that the armor does not dye at all, and that the black scars do not stand out as much on dark skin as they do on light.  As far as colorables go, you can either ask Ishmael to modify the standard armor template to allow a non-colorable gallery (kind of a far fetch, since this is the only set in the whole game that does not dye), or you can just take the code straight and modify the colorables area to simply say that this armor set cannot be dyed.  Another simple solution would be to just use the standard template and upload the undyed images as dyed too, and including a note in the colorable section (check the template on which note # it is, I can't remember) saying that this armor set cannot be dyed, and say "any color" for the color field.  Also, if you really want to, you can use a dark skinned character in the colorables section, and say something like "this armor set cannot be dyed at all, but is very distinct on light skin, and blends in with dark skin."  If you need help with the code, let me know.  With exceptions like this one, the rule of thumb is just use common sense, and there usually isn't a "best" solution.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright. Only problem is all my male necromancers are dark skinned.  >.<  Thanks for the quick reply thought.  Wanmoke 21:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, Wan's a guildie of mine, and I recommended he ask you about this. You're right, I could of course edit the template to allow an optional dyed section, but you're also right that this is the only armor where it would be used.  I like your suggestion of having images on light vs. dark skin, although we'd have to suffer with the current light-skinned images for now.  I have a light-skinned necro, but he's Canthan and I'd have to run him down to the Grotto to get the armor.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Small world. :) I agree that the best way would probably be the dual skin tone set. We've suffered with the current gallery for long enough, a little longer won't make any difference.  I'd offer to run you to Grotto, but I'm not much of a runner, I mostly play casters. :P Anyway, you can have Wan do the 3 "colorable" shots on dark skin to show the "blending in" effect, and then get your pale necro to do the overview and component once you get it, since the scars are almost impossible do discern on really dark skin.  I think that would be the best way to go, and you don't have to mess with the template.  This follows the same reasoning as when I created dark-skinned mules to do the Nightfall Necromancer headgear screenshots - you can only see them on dark.  Colorables note: "Dye has no effect on any part of this armor set.  The black scars will blend in with darker skin tones." (or something like that, you're good with writing notes.) If you want to elaborate on the dyes, you can say that it will ACCEPT dyes, but it will have no visual effect.  I've tried dye-previewing this on my female's male mule, and I could preview every piece, but there was no color change, as you already know. Good luck. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ishy: If you want, I could help you some time to get to Grotto. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the offer, but we're good now, except for crafting materials. Wan has access to a friend's account who doesn't play anymore, and he had a pale male necro at Droknar's, which we took through the missions over to the Grotto last night.  If you've got any wood, dust, or feathers you'd like to give away, though, we'd be happy to take them. :D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Get online <3 --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 250 50  20  Catch me if you can. ;) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I see you online, but you're away. Now I know why; you're spending all your time on here.  ^_^  I'd really appreciate those mats if you can spare them. Wanmoke 19:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Quote
"There are few if not no hackers that are not out to destroy the world."

Let's simplify that to "There are no hackers that are not out to destroy the world."

That means as much as "Every hacker is out to destroy the world", because there isn't one that isn't, so all must be.

Undo the simplification, and it means "All but a few hackers are out to destroy the world".

This doesn't summarize as "hackers are virtually harmless". --◄mendel► 22:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly. He was trying to say that most hackers are virtually harmless, which makes the triple negative even funnier.  Thanks for the exhaustive analysis, though. :) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * White Hats are quite nice people actually. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh?! [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh...no. I was talking about so-called "White Hat hackers". Now you've ruined my reference. :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

New mesmer pictures
Mesmer Elite Elegant armor/Female, Mesmer Elite Noble armor/Female. Do they get the "Rose the Armor Queen" seal of approval? ^_~ &mdash;Dr Ishmael  23:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you uploaded the new "back" over the "profile" in colorable Elite Noble, but otherwise, sealed by Rose the Armor Queen. ;) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 01:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Wandering Eye
Ritualist_Cane? If not; fairly sure I saw it as a Rit Wand... Been checking some, this is the closest I could find. --- -- (s)talkpage  17:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I did look at that, and it's close, but not it. I guess we can say "similar to a Ritualist Cane." I actually looked through All wand, staff, and focus skins, and couldn't find a match.  Some Ritualist items do not have a picture, and that's where our target might be hiding, but it does look more like a Ritualist item rather than Mesmer.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and a quick question. For some reason the wikipedia tool bars (like the control panel on the left and all the editing/watch this page/discussion/etc tabs on top, my watchlist/contribs links, none of that stuff shows up for me on any of the pages I open... WTF? I have to click-navigate through everything, or guess the target address and type it directly.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * O-o? That's weird. Do you have any .css or .js hacks? I honestly haven't a clue. They show up for me. Perhaps clearing your cache works? Bleh. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:01, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't do anything different from usual, and I've never used any hacks, add-ons, or other software, other than the google wiki search bar, which I've never used since installing it months ago. It just started like that today, and now I'm getting it to show up on some pages, but not others...  Also, sometimes my IE7 hangs up trying to open a wiki page (never happened like that before today) and gives an error when I try to close it saying that it may cause some undesired effects or some crap like that, but I click "Yes" and it just closes and that's that...  Weird...  O_O  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Typed address for Wandering Eye in the address bar, it hung up. Trying to hit the "Stop" button to stop it from trying to load the page has no effect, it still says "Connecting" and just turns unresponsive to anything.  Tried to close the tab, said "This window is busy.  Closing this window may cause some problems.  Do you want to close it anyway? -- OK"  Closed just fine...  BLARGH!!!  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Now using IE7 again, myself.. Wow, I miss ABP. Soo anyways, loaded a few pages after a while, and the toolbars generally loaded slow, but they appeared after a few seconds. This is probably because I didn't have anything cached yet. But this does show the problem, partially. Your IE stops loading the page before it's actually fully loaded. But; I've no idea why it is doing that. Sorry :( --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what the hell is going on... >_< I cleared everything stored on my PC, internet files, history, all of it. It still does it, and it also doesn't let me upload images. When I hit the upload button it just clears the address of the image (in the "Browse" box). This is pissing me off... >:@ RoseOfKali  18:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * ? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh wow... When I refreshed my talk, everything all of a sudden became centered and the TOC moved to the bottom of the page, but the control panel and stuff showed up this time, but not when I opened a new tab... "#$%#!!" This is starting to become funny just how sad it is... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah... I didn't have FF because I recently reformatted my PC, but yeah, it works fine in FF3... WTF HAPPENED THOUGH?!  MY IE7 GOT HAXXED! :'(  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It also seems like running FF3 fixed the issues in IE7... Bizarre upon more bizarre... O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:08, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * O_o" Weird. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure it's a JavaScript error, probably in one of the ads. IE gives me an "Error on page" warning, saying "'document.getElementById(...)' is null or not an object" at line 15, character 1, but I don't see anything like that on line 15 when I view the source.  I know that FF and IE have some small differences in how they build the DOM tree (the hierarchical structure of all the elements in an html document), so it's possible that this getElementById is able to find the element in FF, but can't find it in IE.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * But then how did running FF3 fix the problems that IE7 was having? :P Oh well... Damned incompetend losers coding cheap ads. >_< RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh hey, so you're having the same issues with IE7 too. It's good to know it's not just me. Well, not really, since it would be better if it was just me, but...yah.
 * Btw Ritualist Cane is also the closest I know to the Wandering Eye icon. I've never seen anything quite like it in all my travels. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Haha, so it wasn't just me. :P Running FF3 seemed to fix it for a short while, but now it's back, and I think this will be the time I switch to FF3 for good... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Adding
 * to your .css seems to fix things for now. Props to Wizardboy. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * to your .css seems to fix things for now. Props to Wizardboy. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * And I have no idea whatsoever how to do that... :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * User:RoseOfKali/monobook.css is what you'd need. Unless I recall incorrectly again. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Eh, screw it. Wikia fucked things up with the new skins, and I don't think they'll ever recover from it.  I'm not gonna bother, FF3 works, so I'll use that for now.  Thanks anyway.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

why did you remove the halloween frog from the miniature page?
purely out of interest? --Lemming64  00:27, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * AGF moar. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:41, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Found it too bad to be true... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 08:39, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I am glad AGF is alive and well over on the unofficial wiki. And yes you might think it was belated but did you consider maybe she got it when she received the frog many months ago and just waited until Halloween to show him off? --Lemming64  13:11, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How modest of her... But I'd want to see it said somewhere reliable before that statement deserves to be on the page.  A "logical assumption" is not enough.  And WTH is AGF?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Assume Good Faith [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:54, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, yeah, figured it out after asking. And sorry for un-doing the Halloween Frog, it just seemed a little too much and a little too long after the first one, and the icon looks Photoshopped...  Now let's wait for a Wintersday Frog... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Ritualist_Norn_armor/Male
Your expertise is requested, oh great and wonderful Armor Queen. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 23:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

GW:NPA
Your comments on the anonymous pages talk page are unacceptable. Do not troll, do not personally attack users, and do not make such comments about "Iran and Muslim women" that you seem to like. -- R  Phalange  00:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not "personally attack" anyone, my comments were generalized and un-targeted. Also, my note about Muslim women was valid in that they would be offended by the female character/NPC images, I did not say anything offensive about them.  Iran and other Muslim countries are about the only place on Earth where you would not publicly see revealing Western female clothing, or uncivilized lack of it.  I did not say anything offensive, incorrect, or otherwise inappropriate about Muslims or Iran.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't see how countering other people's arguments and asking for a valid one is trolling. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The 7 words that may have been read as a personal attack have been crossed out with an apology. Anything else?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 01:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether they are generalised or not, they are still attacks on contributors. Your trolling includes the whole Bonecage Scythe stuff, and there's also a general air of asshattery and hostility against users, particularly Shadowcrest. I'm not asking you to avoid providing arguments against deletion, but don't do so with attacks and whatnot; if anything, they'll overshadow any legitimate points your argument contains (as well as drive users off the wiki). -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  01:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

o_O O...k. I think if you can't realize when your comments have turned into trolling, then we have a problem. (T/C) 02:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I s'pose I need a definition of trolling. I often have trouble being completely objective and emotionless when I don't think that the opposing party's comments are sincere.  And the Bonecage scythe is actually true, believe it or not (Check it's discussion and the date on my comment.)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you shouldn't let the other person drag you down to their level, coz then they will beat you with experience (this comment is a general one and says nothing about what I think of Shadowcrest, for the record). In other words, don't feed the trolls, like and such as.
 * About Bonecage scythe - I think the problem there is that most people take that as sarcasm from you, though after looking at the thing I am willing to believe you're being serious. -_- [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * So, I guess, nobody is bothered by the fact that I had nightmares of animated Bonecage Scythes chasing me? I was scarred for life by that image.  And I can find you a single offended user for about half of the pages on this wiki.  That is not an argument.  And this again is not an article of the Mainspace Wiki, it is a Userpage article, and many users here post all kinds of materials that are perfectly fine to the general population, but can be seriously offensive to some people.  Much more so than some fucking cleavage.  Get a Muslim in here, and she will be offended by every single image of a female character or NPC.  Goddamn, you people are so fucking stupid. (Oops, sorry, my bad.)  Oh, and plese point out who exatly is that single user that was ever offended?  Because it seems like you're defending a non-existent user, as I hightly doubt that Shadowcrest sees offense in some clothed boobshots, PUHLEASE.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ^example [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I AM being serious... I think it was a combination of seeing the old image of the scythe (the athmosphere made it a lot worse than the one on the Isle that's currently up there) and having it mixed with doing too many dungeons like Bloodstone where you have mobs of magically animated scythes and such... yeah... I'm crazy... There's a reason I don't watch horror movies... :( I couldn't sleep for over a week after seeing a time-lapse of a rotting human corpse on National Geographic (real, making it that much more disturbing.) I just really don't like that shit, I guess... And sadly, sometimes I get too involved in discussions and get pissed if people play games instead of trying to make a solid point. My apologies.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I didn't need to be reminded of that, coz I've seen that too (or something very similar). Ugh ugh ugh XC you have my sympathy, coz I'm not even that much a squeamish person...like, I know a guy who faints when he sees blood, and I was always like Lmao! But now I'm like...wow, I feel sorry.
 * Anyway - we all get overzealous sometimes and say things we wish we hadn't, or at least not that way. So I think it's forgiven. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You "think?" :P But yeah, I'm not squeamish at all when it comes to myself, I stabbed myself in the leg on accident and was more worried about my husband seeing it and the fact that I now have a hole in my favorite jeans. But I just can't handle seeing other people/creatures/things suffering or realistic gore... yugh... :{ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This one time when I was a kid...we were in the Day-Care and it was raining outside, so all us were inside and the activity for the day was clay modelling, with clay and toothpicks for "structural support" (how I make clever reference!). Anyway, you know kids - short attention span and all - so after they had made something, they would mash it up again and start over. Well, this one kid was really excited, so he was pounding his clay full force with his palms. Except then he aimed wrong. And a toothpick went straight through his hand to the other side. I will NEVER forget that...most gruesome thing I have witnessed with my bare eyes. And I've seen bones broken too o_O ... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This one time, at band camp, I had a flute..... I don't play flute. :P Or anything musical, for that matter. But I feel sorry for you. One thing I'll never forget is my dad piking a pig... But enough of that, I'm pissed that they give you Kurzick and Luxon faction all at once with the "show of allegiance" debuff active. >_< And my survivor was like 20k Exp away from r3... damned HFFF got nerfed. :'( RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Even more DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!! Trying to go back and kill stuff for exp again got my survivor-wannabe killed... >_< Grrrrrr....  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Vanquish rewards
Check out Talk:Vanquisher please. --JonTheMon 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And why are you telling me this? [|I just corrected someone else's bad grammar]. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More along the lines of: please give opinion? Please? --JonTheMon 05:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah. :P Why, thank you for thinking of me as a valuable person to ask. ^_^; Well, people seemed to be ok with adding the monster counts for vanquishing to every area in the game, so I don't see a problem with adding faction numbers.  Especially since there's only a handful of areas to account for.  But, if the monster count is collected in a table somewhere, one could also be made for faction.  Though, such a table is unnecessary on its own, unless put into a "How to get faction"-type guide.  Forget about doing this for SS/LB, because those depend on where you start and when you get particular blessings.  You can quote me on this, if you like.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:32, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

This is Entropy's gay header
^ (T/C) 05:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So, you do this after all the times that Mendel and others have been reverting talkpage censorship? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have? I can't recall doing that lately, or even that often. --◄mendel► 18:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It may have been someone else whom I see on here just as often. One thing I recall is some talkpage with a bunch of ##########'s on it, and someone actually went back into the history and found when and what was censored, and reverted it.  Was if Felix?  Damn, I can't remember the page or who did it, but IT HAPPENED I SWEAR!  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It was me, Talk:Elementalist Obsidian armor. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 19:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * /linkphail, fixed. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha! I'm not alone. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't do censorship, except on my own talk page. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I do censorship every night. You can't imagine all the insults I hold back just to please you people.
 * ...no, seriously though, I was being artistic. Because, you know, art is what you can get away with. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Since you might've missed it
The reason that delete tag didn't show anything was because you had a = sign in there, which made it think you were declaring a variable or field or whatever --Gimmethegepgun 05:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

NO REASON GIVEN
It's because you used an = in the reason. Anytime the wiki sees an = in a template parameter, it assumes that what's to the left of it is the parameter name, and what's to the right is the parameter value. So you had given it a parameter named  with a value of. It's a silly little quirk, so just remember not to use equal signs if you're not naming a parameter. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 05:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * lol slow Ishy --Gimmethegepgun 05:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My explanation is better. :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol... Got it. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:04, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The way this works is that you name the unnamed parameter, they're numbered from 1.


 * --◄mendel► 20:53, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So... Use 2 ='s... O_o? Meh, I just won't use them, easier to remember. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:24, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

J-1
Well, if a J-1 is this, simply point the agents to this website and all be cleared up in no time. But going by this report, if you have trouble proving that you've lived in your origin country for 2 years (or 15 months?), the outlook is rather bleak. :-( --◄mendel► 22:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the bleak version, unfortunately. I've done 9 months out of the 2 years, so only 15 months left. They can't figure out how I was able to get a student Visa before the 2 years was up without getting a waiver, she even asked me if my waiver got lost or something, so our only chance is that they'll just throw their hands up and go "I dunno what the hell is going on, someone fucked up, let's get this over with." *sigh* Doesn't sound good, does it?.. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, in a way the seems to have been: "If we let all these smart people in, they're going to like it (or somebody) here, and there'll be nobody smart left in the country where they came from, so let's force them to go back". Of course it can be cruel in a way to the people involved, but one can see how it is supposed to work politically. I seem to recall that in my country, if a person has the right to stay here indefinitely, so do his immediate family members, but I may be mistaken. Move to Canada? ;-)
 * On a different note, your signature rose should be made transparent where it is white now so it'll still look pretty when the wintersday decoration goes up. --◄mendel► 04:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I dunno how to make it transparent. And in order to fulfill the 2 years, I have to be in my country of residence, which is NOT Canada... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * So convince your landlord to secede your apartment building or whatever from the Union --Gimmethegepgun 04:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Wut?.. After a J-1 program, participants are required to return to their home country for 2 years.  This was put in place after countries started complaining to the US that America was "stealing talent" by letting the participants of J-1 stay and get Green Cards.  So, decades ago, US invented the 2 year home residency requirement, which must be fulfilled in the country of residence, and nowhere else.  There is a waiver for it, but it's nearly impossible to get, especially in my circumstances.  So yeah, let's see if they fuck up.  If not, I gotta leave, after spending more than 1/3 of my life here and not having any contacts left in Ukraine... :( This is gonna be fuuunnn... *cries* Now there's a culture shock coming... You see, coming to America was a "good" culture shock, going back won't be... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, on the upside, you're going to be comparatively rich in the Ukraine - unless the US economy (and with it, the dollar) tanks even more ... --◄mendel► 06:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really... In the recent years, prices on gasoline, bread, milk, and meat have climbed up to about those in the US. The wages didn't, though...  Utilities are also hiking because Russia is pissed at Ukraine for "looking Westward."  Most people grow a good chunk of their own groceries.  But now, my mom is in the US and my dad got a new family.  Just grandparents left.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Moving back would be a ... challenge, I see. Well, I'm crossing my fingers for you. --◄mendel► 07:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks... *sniff* RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 07:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I visited your page randomly and read your sad story. Best wishes for a happy outcome to your problem. Arshay Duskbrow 08:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Where you is, Rose? Maybe some local Guildwikians can "help" you. (Am I abusing my powers as bcrat?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm in Colorado, and what kind of help, exactly, are you suggesting? O_o RoseOfKali 10:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I bet Giga is good at bomb-building... ;-9 Finding legal advice or a support group would probably not come amiss, either. --◄mendel► 15:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * PM me in-game for how to make a plastic explosive that fits into a envelope, explodes on opening, and packs enough punch to take out a hummer.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 19:41, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And that's going to help me how? :( I appreciate the offer. Maybe I'll let you know once I'm pissed off enough... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mendel didn't ask for help, he asked for a bomb.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 19:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See the first paragraph of User:RoseOfKali --◄mendel► 20:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I was thinking more like we could launch a massive DDoS attack on the homeland security servers. Maybe we could get someone to also vandalize their webpage and overwrite their .CSS, saying "A Rose by any other name is just as free!" .... I dunno, now that Giga mentioned high-yield explosives, I guess there are other avenues to be explored as well. Anymore, good luck :C [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the good wishes, everyone. I guess now it's just time to wait and see... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've tried legal advice from an actual immigration attorney. He said not to even bother and waste our money, just go back and get it over with... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

BTW
Slow bureaucracy is slow, you're going to have grandchildren before you get an official reply back.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 08:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If it was THAT slow, I wouldn't worry about it. :P But the problem is, I want to have CHILDREN first, and I sure as hell don't want to have them while in Ukraine... Plus, we haven't even had a honeymoon yet. :( RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 10:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Present for you
In morning.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 05:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it'd be awesome if you got me a transparent .png Rose for my sig. XD I still can't figure out how to do that in Photoshop... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png is what I can do in like 5min, let me know how that works out. I can do a more thorough job if needed. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:36, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) Now you have to tell me how you did that. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I selected all the empty pixels with the Lasso tool, plus more which I thought were leftover artifacts (I dunno, it still looks like rose to me, so it's probably ok). Then I used the Eraser tool and set it to Background Erase. That eliminates most of the background. After that I hit DEL and then CTRL + X to eliminate whatever is left over. To check how good a job it was, I fill in the transparant areas with the Paint Bucket, set to pink or something. If the color is contiguous everywhere, I've succeeded. If some spots are less pink than others, then I need to select and CTRL+X them again. There are probably much better ways to do it, but that's what I do for now. It can be a real bitch with larger images... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about Photoshop, but I do know that Magic Wand > Lasoo. As for the actually making things transparent, I have no idea the process in PS.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Magic Wand works great when everything is mostly of the same color, you are working with a large image where you don't care much about deleting a few extra pixels, and there are no random artifacts which you will have to go back and manually add to the selection anyway. So, it tends to fail like Danika zu Heltzer at healing if you are working with small images, especially icons. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That "at healing" clause was unnecessary. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes...Yes, it was. Fixed for doubled adrenaline gain. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

So uh, what morning was I supposed to get a preasent? O_o Or am I being loony? RoseOfKali 00:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In the morning, eventually. Probably later today.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

After much balancing, rebalancing, scrapping, concepting and image searching
I present: (DO DO DO!)  THIS! --Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 00:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL! ^_^ How purrdy! XD Too bad I've never played MTG and have no idea whatsoever what it's about, but that's still really sweet. I like the roses. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He just made you an expensive but pretty powerful card. I'd be honored. (Even though mine are unbeatably powerful.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Any player whos running Black blue red control should have it in the deck for an end game to complement their Cruel Ultimatum. So yes, it is very good, albeit expensive.  (Like your armor collection)--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  03:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh! Expensive present. XD I still can't get over the roses, they're pretty. I'm sorry I don't know like anything about the game, but just reading it kind of seemed like this would be powerful. So, can you take out opponents' creatures from the graveyard, too? So player B just takes out player C's most powerful creature, and you, player A, just go and steal it for yourself? That's f*in awesome! And how expensive is it, really? What are the blood drops and the skulls? Is that like a third of your life or something?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 15:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's mana cost. There's a type of card (Lands) that give mana when tapped. This disables them for the turn or something to that sense. I haven't ever played MTG myself, but that's what I remember of what Prog once told me. Anyways, the blue blood drops are Water mana, Skulls are Dark mana. The (1) is a generic mana point; it can be any.
 * Also, I think the card implied that if any creature is put into the graveyard, you can steal it. Wait, I should read better. I misinterpreted "take out" as "take from the graveyard".
 * And I spotted a typo: "breathe life" rather than "breath life" :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Skulls are swamps and the droplets are islands. Under normal circumstances you get one mana per turn. Six turns are a lot in Magic :) and yes, you can steal any players creature that was about to die, but only in that moment that it dies. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 15:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I designed it to be like an uber minion master, they can steal the opponents creatures as they die, and revive their own creatures with the same effect.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 22:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Too bad you can't "revive" in GW... Revived bosses for vanquishing, anyone?  Oh, and blue IS my favorite color. XD  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

How to (de-)color a thumbnail
This is the caption.


 * 1) put a thumb on the page and preview it
 * 2) grab the HTML code off the page source
 * 3) replace the image &lt;a> tag with image wikicode
 * 4) remove the stupid magifier &lt;a> tag
 * 5) add style="border:transparent;" to the thumb tright tag if you plan to use it on a non-white background
 * 6) add style="background: transparent;" to the thumbinner tag
 * 7) alternately, add style="background:somecolor;" (see Help:Color)
 * 8) add a caption in the thumbcaption div
 * 9) done.

--◄mendel► 00:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC) & 07:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Whoah... O_O Whatever you say... Ok, I'll just copy the one you did and hope it works... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh... nope, didn't work. Ugly...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * T'would probably just be easier to stick the image and caption inside a transparent div tag, to avoid the whole thumbnail background deal. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  02:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Um. How do I do that? I know nothing about div's. :( Where can I look this up? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm,  tags work in a similar fashion to tables. I had assumed you used some divs in your userpage already, but you're old-skool like me and you've got everything in tables, hehe. (which can have the same results.) I'd give you a link to meta's help page on div tags, but... they don't seem to have one...
 * Anyway, here's a link to Meta anyway, just in case you might find it. Lots of other good bits of code there as well.
 * ...I think I need to dig up the help page as well, because it seems I know less about div tags then I thought I did. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  03:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

What are you trying to do here? Entrea   [Talk]  03:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Already did, on my homepage. Couldn't figure out how to put in my MTG card without a white background.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok then.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  04:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I am a bit at a loss why you found your first attempt ugly. If it was because of the silver border, that can be changed. --◄mendel► 05:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Lol? Silver border? There was like a 1/4 inch white border around it... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was talking about this revision. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]]
 * Weird. I know why I can't see it now (because I removed the border for the wintersday deco beta), but even logged out, on IE7 and Monaco, that revision looks fine to me. Oh well. You can set the border to be border:transparent; or a color in the style, too. --◄mendel► 22:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This is what the above revision looks like to me. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a Monobook issue. The border is white so that lines (e.g. from headings) end before the reach the box. I made it transparent in the example code above. If the important thing about the thumb is that is has a caption and floats right, you can do that differently as well. --◄mendel► 07:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol. Well, I'll keep that in mind for the future. :P Thanks. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Ukraine
There's not going to be a war. The gas supplies for 13 European countries come via pipeline from Russia through the Ukraine; throughput is already diminished, and the Europeans are getting angry - they're still at the "let use help mediate that" stage, but both sides (yes, Russia, too) will look very bad coming out of this if it can't be settled. But it's true that Ukraine and much of South-East Europe are freezing right now. Basically, it's blackmail. --◄mendel► 05:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reading the news suddenly takes on a much greater impact when it actually affects you or someone in your life. It makes me feel so...helpless. :\ Even though it's very little, you have my sympathy, and I won't feel nearly as bad when I'm back in "freezing New York". [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ^_^ Thanks for your support. It's a very nice feeling to know that you have sympathy of total strangers.  The thing is, Russia is raging for a long time now because Ukraine wants to join the European Union.  So, it's trying to make Ukraine look bad.  They're still having some issues letting go of the former Soviet members (Chechnia, Georgia... now Ukraine).  During the last election, the country was on the brink of a civil war between the pro-West and pro-East.  Things have settled down a little bit since then, but I feel like there is some re-kindling going on right now.  I guess we'll see where this ends up... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, gg Russia, if raising gas prices from $250 to $400 and cutting the supply off in mid-winter is your way of converting the Ukrainian people to the pro-East faction, you're just about as skillful at making people love you as the US is. =:-P --◄mendel► 07:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, hey, that's not fair. We try to win them over with color television sets, not higher gas prices. It's a totally different form of imperialism. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the Chinese strategy, actually. "Give them lots of cheap in-game gold household goods, take their money, they'll love us." --◄mendel► 07:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically I did not contradict myself, since China has the U.S. economy by the balls tbh, and it is my homeland. :D
 * Anyway, is there extensive coal deposits in or near Ukraine? May want to consider about alternate sources of heating if things don't cool down. (See what I did there?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:41, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Are there extensive coal deposits. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Grammar are hard D: On a more serious note: Best of luck, Rose. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, it won't be very long until the gass goes on in the whole of Europe, exept for Ukrain. The EU wants to send ppl to make sure the gas Russia sends through goes to the rest of Europe, and not to Ukrain, so Ukrain and Russia can fight some more. I suggest you take your private supply of gas/gasolien with you if you are forced to go back to Ukrain. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 20:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Last time I checked, it costs about $5,000 USD to ship a small car, and I'd need a lot more gas than that. :P But yeah, Russia hiked gas prices for Ukraine to almost double of previous rate, so Ukraine didn't sign the deal, and they cut the flow. Some way to say "thanks" for transiting all that cash from Europe back to Russia for their stinking gas... Ukraine has quite a few coal mines that are probably working to the full capacity already. My dad was a miner, actually. Also, Ukrainian coal mines are some of the most dangerous in the world, with accidents and mortality rates often estimated higher than in China. Coal is not going to help the situation. In Western Europe, a lot of people are beginning to panic. Some countries had 100% of their gas coming from Russia, and now they have none. Others have to ration what's left to hospitals and residences. Europe will step in and do something, for sure, but it's really hard to say where this will end as far as Ukraine is concerned. With median salaries of $100 USD/month people could hardly afford the old rates, and winter there is hitting below 0 degrees F. I guess our beautiful forests will start coming down, which makes me really sad... RoseOfKali 01:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

religion
To get this off User talk:Dr ishmael, where it doesn't belong, you wrote: "church of any kind is a means of crowd control", and that, while true, falls short of the whole truth. Old religions are collections of values that made a society survive, they are historically proven to be beneficial to society. I like to think that, as a requirement for surviving as a society, its people have to be reasonabley happy most of the time, and as such religion is also a road to individual happiness. --◄mendel► 08:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Happy people are a crowd under control, no? :) I didn't mean it as an all-bad thing. I said to take out the good stuff, and run before you are turned into a fanatic.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Very few religious people are fanatics. I like to believe more fanatics are in a sect or not religious than there are religious ones, but I don't have any numbers. "Crowd control" also implies there's one kind of religion for the crowds and another one for the "masters", and for many religions, that isn't true either. Organized religion is a way to pass on the codified tales of people dealing with their inner selves (aka souls) and experiences therein; stuff that today psychology in part begins to get a grasp on, but that are really hard if not impossible to describe objectively (= scientifically) because these are intrinsically subjective experiences. Because of that, it is also very hard to write about them in a way that's meaningful to somebody who doesn't already know what youäre talking about; still, it helps to know other people have had similar experiences before you. Because this is so, I'm wary of religions that go back to a single founder, and respect religions more that have a more "democratic" tradition. --◄mendel► 07:39, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I, too, am in search of that "inner self" and the meaning of my presence here, etc. These cliche' questions are so for a reason: many people have them.  And I do not dismiss any religion completely.  I refuse to believe that there is ONE out there that is correct, and all others are wrong.  That's just impossible.  Instead, I think all of them have a grain of truth about a certain aspect of the "divine" presence in this world.  And by "crowd control" I do not mean it like herding sheep.  As I said, most people are in search of answers for those "cliche'" questions, and will often not rest until they find a satisfactory explanation.  Religions offer that, and in doing so, offer inner peace to many of those who were looking for the answers they did not receive from science.  People who are at peace with their lives will not be ones to look for trouble, which is good for society they live in.  However, religions are often misread and misinterpreted.  For example, the extremist Muslims (frowned upon by the majority of Muslims) who believe they are fighting a "holy war" and will receive dozens of virgins to serve them after death.  That is a misinterpretation.  In fact, an alternate translation of the ancient text talks about GRAPES, not virgins, and grapes happen to be fairly common in descriptions of heaven not only in Islam, but in Christianity as well.  In fact, Orthodox Christian priests in Eastern Europe wear robes adorned with grape vines and fruit.  So, this is an example where religion went haywire and turned against itself.  Religious texts are translated from languages that are now dead, and a lot of "hidden" or "implied" meaning is lost, all you have left is a literal story translated by a human.  As someone who fluently speaks 4 languages, I can tell you that translation is as far from an exact science as you can possibly get.  It is up to you hot to interpret that story.  Sure, there is a story of a great flood, and a giant Arc that saved a pair of each species to survive.  Do I believe that story verbatim? No.  Do I think the flood happened? Yes.  There is evidence of a cataclysmic earthquake in the middle of the Indian Ocean that caused massive flood waves throughout east Africa, India, and Polynesia.  Incidentally, all those areas have legends of a great flood.  And there are claims of an ancient giant cargo ship found in the lower Himalayas, which happens to be in the area affected by the aforementioned earthquake and tsunamis.  How did a giant ship get into the mountains?  Nobody can tell you for sure.  As far as the survivor saved by the Arc, well, that's easy.  Research shows that you need at least a dozen (closer to 20) unrelated couples for a population of any species to survive.  This research was done to shed light on early humans populating Australia, and how many of them had to travel to survive as an independent population.  Thus, Noah's Arc survivors would have died out within a couple of generations.  But, there is evidence of a "bottleneck" in many species' populations, including humans, many thousands years ago in the Middle East, due to massive volcanic activity in the Pacific causing ash fallouts, etc.  This destroyed a large "chunk" of variation in the human gene pool and was discovered during the Human Genome Project.  The people who survived may be the alegorical "Noah's Arc" survivors that repopulated the rest of the earth.  So, every time someone shows up at my doorstep and says the word Jesus, I close the door, because they come to analyze the "literal" meaning of the Bible, and that is a joke to me.  However, I am happy for those people, because they feel like they have found the meaning of THEIR lives.  The "factual" truth in the Bible is buried, and you cannot find it unless you are well educated in the sciences and have an open mind to relate these things.  This is true not only of Christian texts, but any others as well.  There are many truths and secrets hidden in them, but they will not be in plain sight, revealed by simply reading it like a storybook.  However, this does not mean that these texts cannot be used as guides for daily life.  They absolutely can, as they offer many wisdoms that are better learned by stories than practice.  As log as you do not decide to sacrifice your first born son to show God how much you love him.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:17, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you actually have to sacrifice your firstborn at some time in your life: when you realize that he's not going to live out your dreams, but needs to work on his own. If you have problems letting go, comparing that to actually letting go the bloody way may help ;-)
 * You were dwelling on the outer experience of the flood; the inner experience is people experiencing catastrophe and thinking "what have we done? is god angry with us?", or, in more modern terms, "have we sinned"? The Mosaic religion solves that nicely for everyone by telling people that those thoughts are the old ways and the new way is to never take disasters as "wrath of god" because god doesn't do that any more. I guess that's one of the things that separates a civilisation from a tribe. And of course it's a lesson that, individually, everybody has to re-learn when you want to sigh, "why me?" --◄mendel► 23:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)