Talk:Monument of Valor

This is wrong. I had Rocktail's Stinger, customized it and the monument didn't accept it. I'm so pissed off!!! If it doesn't accept customized green weapons from GW:EN then what is it accepting?

Well, be careful when adding items. When you add them it customizes the weapon to you. This doesnt show the 20% damage bonus on your item though. Make sure you use a weapons NPC to customize first. Hopefully this gets fixed as not have my 20% kinda sucks. :( Gandorf

lolz at the person who put the screenshot ups skillbar :x


 * Well, maybe he/she has a hero MM? Tho I dunno if the skill works on allied minions not animated by yourself. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:33, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * We need a new picture. This is really really bad.

Yeah, sucks that it doesn't give you the 20% if you customize it at the monument. It also sucks that it does not accept Tormented weapons!!!! GRR!!! This needs to change! (Not that I have a Tormented weapon anyway, but I'm planning to get one). RoseOfKali 16:28, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm rather annoyed that only Destroyer Weapons can be put here...I mean the monument talks about a "warrior's" ..."true" weapons...i don't know about everyone else but Destroyer Weapons aren't what got me thought all three campaigns with any of my characters. So why would i want to display or even craft for that matter...i'd rather display my Req. 9 shinobi or my req. 8 Katana...etc...i really think Anet dropped the ball on this one...Bayushi Kyo 12 September 2007, 16:20 PDT

11 pedestals
There are 11 empty pedestals at my monument. Does that mean that it "wants" me to craft all 11 weapon types? Because that's plain silly, I don't ever see my necromancer using an axe, spear, etc. RoseOfKali  16:30, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, they should only make pedestals for weapons that are actually being displayed, doesn't look very good now. Showb1z 12:34, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't forget your heroes can use weapons that are customised to you. Sirocco 15:29, 9 September 2007 (CDT)
 * And this is useful how? Excuse me, but I'm not about to go out and pay well over 100k to have a weapon for my hero that only that hero can use (My warrior can't use the sword that I displayed on my necro, only my necro's warrior heros can).  I use preorder items instead.  I love my heros, but not THAT much... O_O  I still maintain that the monument looks ridiculous as it is.  Pedestals should only be added along with a weapon. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:02, 12 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Also, the staff is ridiculously small. I don't know about other weapons, but if you just walk by, you'd probably not even notice it, if it wasn't for the white text. --84.24.206.123 02:07, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Tormented weapons
Many people will agree with me that tormented weapons should be allowed on this monument. They are in gold lettering when acquired, albeit from a collector and not a crafter. And they are definitely more difficult/expensive to get. Possible reasoning may be that they are only available in one campaign, but hey, you have to have the Expansion to get Destroyer weapons, so I don't see this as an issue at all. RoseOfKali 02:06, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

I actually think they should allow any green from any Campaign to be added to the monument. that's unfair that my Green Sword and Shield couldn't be allowed to be added. MarioDX 08:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

At the very least, Green Weapons should be allowed. To restrict it to Destroyer Weapons is just odd - not everyone is going to craft Destroyer Weapons, but people are proud of their green weapons. User:LikaiKailla
 * Allowing "greens" would pretty much make it so any idiot could completely fill his HoM on like every character. Personally, i think destroyer items, tormented items, and any other weapon that only drops as a gold should all be included. --SLeeVe 14:04, 17 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, some of us "idiots" like our green weapons and would like to put them there for our own viewing pleasure. It's not like my HoM is on display for the world to see. User:LikaiKailla
 * The monument is for unlocking something in gw2, not for your viewing pleasure. if anything, maybe ppl should start suggesting they add an additional feature to the HoM, like a weapon rack where you can put whatever you want (not as storage, just as show) that'll have no affect on gw2. --SLeeVe 15:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Why not make it able to show customized weapons? That would be like the mini's, not spreadable, due to customization, but still variable. --84.24.206.123 15:35, 18 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I think, all perfect golds and greens. "Oh noes, ruins acomplishment!!!!"... Well, just have the rarer/more explansive/whatever weapons give more uniq unlocks in GW2, simple.
 * No, its not simple, you can't have perfect golds, that wouldn't work, if anything, it would have to be greens only, and even then that'd be a lot of stuff to add for GW2, assuming you get something different for each one you have.--Daniel Rendat 03:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And perfect golds wouldn't work because of what? More to add for GW2? At most, right now, they can most be planning to add one thing for every type of destroyer weapon (notice "at most"). If they allow greens and perfect golds they could simply let them correspond to the same things in GW2 as the same type of destroyer weapon does. Still, it's simple. 193.44.6.146 11:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I think ppl misunderstand the monument's purpose
what ppl want: to display their weapons; any weapons, whichever they want.

what it is: an accomplishment monument that will unlock something in guildwars2.

Filling it up with whatever you want defeats the "accomplishment" sense of it. say filling it up gives some special sword in gw2. so what do you do if it dont have it full? go buy a ton of greens for 3k each and fill it? or do you just take a ton of stuff to the weaponsmith and customize it? Allowing the monument to accept green items, let alone any customized items, would take away any sense of accomplishment from this HoM feature. --SLeeVe 22:27, 18 September 2007 (CDT)
 * We've already stated that we would love to put random weapons of our choosing that have no effect on GW2. ‽  -(єronħ)   no   u  07:13, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
 * The only greens that would possibly be worthy of special unlocks is Urgoz's and Kanaxai's stuff. Sirocco 07:44, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
 * While I understand exactly what it is that the Monuments are for...aka an unknown GW2 Unlock, I believe that the majority of players see the Monument of Valor as a place to place the weps that have gotten us all through think and thin during the first 3 campaigns. If anet wanted a monument to commemorate the fact that players kicked the crap out of the destroyers...I think the Monument of Valor is a bad choice...especially when the monument itself states..."the weapons of belong here"... that kinda gives players the wrong idea about what the monument is for. Personally i don't want to get any Destroyer Weps...they're ugly. It would be better if u could display...Destroyer Items, Tormented Items, Urgoz Greens, Kanaxai Greens, DOA Greens...and any Q7-8 items...but that wont happen and we all know it...so like more than a few players my Monument of Valor will remain empty out of protest. Bayushi Kyo 16:00 September 19th 2007 (PDT)
 * No kidding, what is this bullshit about "sense of accomplishment"? I don't get any feelings of "accomplishment" for spending 5k+mats to get an ugly destroyer weapon, and CERTAINLY don't feel any more accomplishment for doing that than I do for beating Factions and getting my Ironwing, or finding my req 8 15^50 zealous half moon of fortitude back in pre-inscription Prophecies. If it's about sense of accomplishment, it should let us put the stuff that we fucking ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING WITH here, ESPECIALLY since the monument itself states it's for MY CHARACTER'S greatest weapons. As Eronth stated above, if unlocking something in GW2 is really that big a deal, have the monument allow ANY weapon, then if you add a non destroyer(or anything else they add later) weapon simply have a quest type popup dialogue box saying something like "Warning:The items placed here can change the future of your decendants. However, only destroyer and (whatever else) weapons exert the needed power, (this item) is not strong enough. Are you sure you wish to add (this item)?" DKS01 06:23, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You're argument, as well as just about anyone else who sides with you, could be applied to other monuments as well. "Why cant i add my favorite heroes even though they dont have upgraded armor! thats stupid" or "I like my 1.5k armor sets! I shouldn't have to buy 15k+ sets to stick in here!" Fact of the matter is that ArenaNet doesn't want to allow players to fill their monuments with CHEAP stuff. Now, yes, im aware that there are tons of items that aren't cheap that aren't allowed in it atm, and have stated that there are many other items that should be allowed. For you to make it sound like im against adding anything else to the monument is silly. --SLeeVe 15:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You still fail to give a reason why any of the stuff people could apply to the other monuments is bad either, and you still fail to give a reason WHY people shouldn't be allowed to add whatever the want, for whatever reason. Until you do that, your point is moot, and will remain moot, end of story. You have not and cannot provide a valid reason why we cannot control OUR "Hall of Monuments". Case closed. DKS01 05:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, so this started after I said that tormented weapons should be allowed. And I still maintain that tormented weapons should be allowed along with the destroyer ones, and THAT"S IT.  No strange golds or crappy greens.  Tormented simply because they're THE most difficult weapons to acquire in the game.  Limiting to destroyer is unfair, because it's extremely superficial, as many people think they're UGLY AS HELL for once, and a caster has no reason to run out and craft himself 4 types of shields, sword/axe/hammer, spear, scythe, daggers, and 4 types of bows, along with a staff wand and focus.  This is not very well thought through.  I'd rather have a tormented weapon set for one attribute, and a destroyer set for a different attribute.  That's at least SOME variety.  As it is, one character can AT MOST put 3 useful weapons on there (wand/focus/staff), while the others he/she will have no use for.  Then why the 11 empty pedestals? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * PS If people want to add greens, ok, but only max greens of the character's primary profession should be allowed. Dunno about golds, tho... Perfect golds, maybe?  Req shouldn't matter (casters have no problem wielding a req 15 staff), but the weapon would be customized and the mods would be "locked in," meaning you can't change the mods afterwards.  Just a thought...  But I'm starting to get a feeling that Anet is not going to do much to GW1 anymore.  They will do some minor things (like holiday events, or weekend bonuses) to keep the fools entertained, but they will focus on GW2.  No major changes will happen here from now on.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and yes, what's the accomplishment of getting a weapon AFTER you've finished everything? To do what with it?  Shake it at others to make them think you're scary?  The Destroyer weapon exclisiveness here is ridiculous. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think, all perfect golds and greens. "Oh noes, ruins acomplishment!!!!"... Well, just have the rarer/more explansive/whatever weapons give more uniq unlocks in GW2, simple.81.225.4.220 12:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree fully that Destroyer weapons, Tormented Weapons and any Max Unique Item should be allowed into the monument to valor. It is simply not the case that doing this would ruin the sense of accomplishment. If you filled up all your pedistals with crap greens that you bought for 1k each, thats not much of an accomplishment is it? However, if you filled it up with Urgoz greens hirophant greens, etc, and tormented weapons, then good job! THAT it a big accomplishment. Filling up the monument is meaningless, what is actually on display is what matters. Also, from what I take from the monument is that your GW2 character will be able to use --that specific item-- in GW2, (modded, obviously, to fit GW2's systems) So the guy that displays Koles Gauntlet (worst green ever) is NOT going to get as good an item as your awesome destroyer Longbow will yield to you. So if I just buy a bunch of crap greens, I'll wind up with a pile of crap in GW2, and vice versa.

i think that all "high-class" weapons should be let in, and if the game reconginses these certain weapons, ie, crystalline, it shouldnt matter if they are the crappiest gold ever..they took effort to get. so basically the definition of valour in this case is: someone who has farmed a lot of money and can buy high-class end-game weapons. So what about my perfect runic blade that i fought my bum off to get? or my forgotten sword that took 30 shots at abaddon 2 get? but since i didnt pay 30k for them i guess there "valourless".

GW1 Isn't Done
Remember people that the Bonus Mission Pack will be coming out in november with "unique rewards", some of which may be weapons admissable into the monument. Don't assume that everything is said and done guys. --- Flycken 19:03, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it would also be safe to assume that its possible for small additions to be added to the game in the future prior to gw2 w/o an additional purchase. Anyone recall Sorrow's Furnace and TotPK --SLeeVe 19:05, 19 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Unless I can add any of the weapons I CURRENTLY wield it's stupid regardless, because, according to the monument, it's to display my "greatest weapons". Well, I didn't beat all 3 campaigns with destroyer weapons, and I didn't beat them with anything new that MAY be added in the mission pack, I beat them with a variety of weapons that I have NOW. My req 8 perfect half moon(FOUND before inscriptions even existed), my fiery azure shortbow, my zodiac longbow, Gargash's Recurve Bow, Ironwing Flatbow, an icy ascalon bow, Victo's Maul, Kole's Torment...THESE are my weapons, THESE are the weapons that got me through all the games thus far, and THESE are what a monument to my character should display, not some crappy Destroyer weapon I can't get until I've already finished everything, or some random thing that might be introduced in the mission pack(which cover events that our characters weren't even actually present for, BTW). So unless Anet makes it where you can add your CURRENT weapons(which there was no reason to HAVE to add later, that's how it should have been from the start), this monument is beyond lame no matter HOW many new items they may or may not add that may or may not be allowed to be put here. Requiring that heros have altnerate armor to be displayed on that monument was lame enough, but this one takes the cake. DKS01 06:09, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

my god you are annoying!--Chris1645 09:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

hehehe, great discussion, but we all forget one thing, that what ANet wants its to keep players logged in playing! so they can sell more games. (Am Bups 22:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC))

CURRENTLY only takes Destroyer Weapons?
Does this mean that it could change? Cuz I just basically wasted my drok's key on my daggers I customized to me, so i could put it in my HoM.--Try Not To Kill Me 19:48, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

yes which is lame because i thought from everything i read on gwen was that this monument would allow you to display your greens.
 * I'm not sure what you read to make you think that since I never got that impression. If it was word of mouth, well... yea. sign your comments --SLeeVe 15:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

According to current Frog Talk logs, there is no planned change to the monument ~ Gaile Gray Talks Wednesday October 31, 2007 --SLeeVe 18:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * oh, and sorry fellas! doesn't look like you're going to be allowed to throw whatever you want it! --SLeeVe 18:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

To only have Destroyer weapons displayed in a single characters hall of monuments, to me at least, seems to dimish the effect of the whole thing. I personally can't afford to get 1 destroyer weapon, let alone a full set of them. It doesn't really do justice to the journey of your characters if you can only show a incredibly hard aspect (for people like myself the casual player) of their story, that in the end probably doesn't mean anything because its giving the player this nice place to put stuff but saying "stuff all the hard work you put in to get your chosen weapons or the not so rare ones that you use religiously, you can only use these ones in here". For a lot of the casual players, like myself, getting the nice fancy armour is a challenge in itself, but to get everything required for destroyer weapons is just a mammoth task which a lot of players can't do. I personally use greens for my character, or nice gold found about the game and use them more than I think I would use a Destroyer weapon. GWEN is only one aspect of GW 1, and if the Hall of Monuments is supposed to show the achievements / journey / history of the character to whom it is decicated why not show the tools that character used through its WHOLE journey? I mean, come on, heroes can be displayed from all campaigns, titles from all campaigns, why only let the weapons to one small expansion? Also, even if you get destroyer weapons how many people are going to use them over the weapons they've carried with them over however long they've played? I've been using one green for my dervish, for example, since I first brought Nightfall, my first guild wars game, and that was an achievement just getting that, it goes with the theme of my character. Personally, and I think I speak for a lot of people, Anet dropped the ball on this way, really, really badly. Just seems like a money sink House_of_Furyan


 * Destroyer weapons are ugly as hell, there so many better greens and gold weapons that would much better represent "valor".69.145.194.67 01:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Would be nice if this was expanded to include, say the "end of campaign" weapons like you get in Divine Path and Throne of Secrets, through this would still disadvantage Prophecies-only owners. Can't see allowing all green weapons being accepted, but certainly a greater range than just the Destroyer weapons ones would make this more interesting to a greater number of players. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Bonus pack Weapons
This should at least accept bonus pack weapons....-- 22:44, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Confirmed by me that it does not accept them.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]igathrash Talk^Cont 23:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should accept BMP weapons, because for those with the pack they're extremely easy to acquire (not to mention free), while for those who missed the pack they're impossible to get. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

weapon types
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried to put two weapons of the same type on the monument, like two different staves or shields? Would it let you? My guess is 99.9% no, but I've never heard a solid confirmation of this. RoseOfKali 20:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not change it? My thinking, Legacy Weapons
Since Anet has already stated it hasn't finished (whether limited to concept or programming) how the Hom translates between the two games, and since nothing is certain, why not make it so your green sword or shield can go there? Your purple bow. Your blue staff. Whatever weapons your character / heroes actually uses. Why not make it that the rewards in Guild Wars 2 is only specific to the type of weapon? If, indeed, you inherit that weapon why not just call it a 'Legacy' weapon, and it doesn't carry the same mods as the weapon put in. So if you put a fancy green or gold weapon in it only appears a Legacy weapon with a 15% + damage mod or something. Or a 5+ energy mod. Just my thoughts. 203.173.225.42 01:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one who doesn't understand the "thoughts" here? I don't get what he's trying to say. O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hes saying that if you mash in a Tormented Staff, you'd get thesame as with any other staff. That's what he wants. And it would only have the inscription slot filled out. And it would be called a Legacy. Wow, what a legacy, an incomplete weapon... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh... *cleans out ear* Am I hearing things? Because this is one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever heard. O_O  There are a couple problems with the HoM right now, namely: arranging displays (this is the only big one), adding tormented weapons, removing empty pedestals until a weapon is actually added, making a unique statue for Rainbow Phoenix, and maybe letting your heroes tame the Rainbow Phoenix, and that's about it.  People need to stop begging Anet to add common weapons, this is ridiculous.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Imo, the suggestion is rather... dull... Okay, I think it's bull. Also, the Destroyer weapons displayed are too small to notice. My Torm Staff is only seen because it's a frikken item, not because you really see it. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 21:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one that thinks GW2 might not have anything in common with GW1 except the first two words in its title? Maybe basic blank destoryer weapons are the only things that will carry over because the damage, mods, linked attributes, and everything else about the whole weapon/combat system might change completely? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.161.121.246 (contribs).
 * They said they were going to keep the dual prof and 8 skill system IIRC RT | Talk  17:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you link to a source for this? A quote? Anything? To prove you aren't making things up?

Monument of Gold Sink
Is it just me, or is this particular monument nothing more than a huge gold sink? Yeah, it holds awesome weapons for my char, but why the heck does my ele need hammers and daggers in the hall? Yeah, it means that I really did beat EotN, or buy a weapon off of someone who did, and that I had a bunch of cash to burn too. If this is going to allow my (theoretical) GW2 char to use a destroyer weapon, why should I even bother crafting weaps that are not even for my class? Maybe my ele will make a destroyer staff, and maybe my derv will make a destroyer scythe, but I can't see a reason to do more. Unless ANet has plans for a super-buff for a GW2 char with a full hall, this is just conspicuous consumption. Valkor the Confused 21:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you know what all the monuments are going to do in GW2 then please share with us. --Macros 22:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I wish I did. This monument might not make me grouchy if I knew that. The fact that all of my money put together would get me one elite armor set or a few destroyer weaps is entirely beside the point. -Valkor the Confused 23:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't really think it's a gold sink. apart form the sweet tooth and the drunkard title it doesn't cost much gold for any of them, there's a difference between paying other people for the materials and paying NPCs for them. If the gold doesn't leave the economy it's not a sink. Viruzzz

Five sets of elite armor, 11 destroyer weapons, and 20 miniatures isn't a gold sink? Lets face it, the developers got tired of working on GW1 so they gave us a long grind for weapons, armor, titles, hero armor upgrades and miniatures (I don't think there are 20 miniatures for each player in the game) to keep us busy until they release world of charrcraft. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.161.121.246 (contribs).
 * IMO GW2 sounds awesome, stuff that I see in EQ2 all the time that I think "hey that would be cool in GW", don't knock it until you've tried it RT | Talk  17:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO why would I bother with GW2, if they can give up on GW1 so readily?

I'd like to repeat something that's been said before : what ppl want: to display their weapons; any weapons, whichever they want. what it is: an accomplishment monument that will unlock something in guildwars2. It will probably be as simple as that : if you put the destroyer sword on the rack, then in GW2 you will have access to a nice sword, kinda like the bonusitems we have now : just a nice way to have a perfect stat weapon early on in the game. This is the reason why it would be pointless to put two axes on the rack : one is enough to unlock the future special axe. So buying a Destroyer Weapon is in fact the way to get what will be one of the commonest rare skin in GW2 IMO. The purpose of the Hero/Pets/Armor/Weapons/Miniature HoM is to give you access to elite stuff directly in GW2 if you have some in GW1.

And also Miniatures (and alcohol and sweets, for that matter) are not, as Viruzzz said, a gold sink (fyi a gold sink is a way to let gold out of the global economy of the game). They are a gold siphon from you pocket to the pocket of someone else. So it's Zero sum for the gw economy. Lucky/Unlucky is a gold sink, as well as the treasure hunter and skill caps titles.--PatRedway 00:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You forgot about Dwarven Ale, and Red Bean Cakes.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ Talk 00:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And who uses those? O_o You can buy dropped alchohol/sweets for half the price from players.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

New Items for Valor?
Are the Deldrimor Weapons able to be put in for display? the weapons crafter is a lot like the destroyer crafter and, i dunno... im thinking they will let us put these in too. please anyone that knows something.... post. ~Serge Lo Tank April 24, 2008. 3:02 PM (GMT)

Yes, I've been wondering about this as well. I havent gotten around to beating hell's precipice yet, but i am curious as to whether the crafted weapons can be put into valor. I somewhat doubt it, but can someone check? If not, I'll try it later. 24.188.57.155 03:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll go bust the Lich's ass real quick and come back and tell you. Been putting it off because I utterly despise that whole island chain. So boring. --&mdash; Powersurge360 Melancholia  03:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it will though, none of the other endgame items do it. &mdash; Powersurge360 Melancholia  03:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it, too. There are no "green" version of the Destroyer weapons, and this monument is taylored specifically for one collection, with 11 pedestals on display.  That would be a really shitty thing to do, since I know some people who got all 11 weapons just to fill the monument (I'm on my way there too, and the most a single class can use is 4 of them for Warrior, making the other 7 hero-only), and now they gotta get 11 more?  Don't think so...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)