Talk:Mantra of Resolve

Every skill is prefixed by its type. It is not present in any of our descriptions. --Fyren 12:35, 13 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * You are correct. :) --Karlos 13:49, 13 Sep 2005 (EST)

Does anyone happen to know what happens if you get knocked down while casting if you have Mantra of Resolve on? My hypothesis is that you will be knocked down but the spell will continue casting, but I have yet to test it. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
 * The Interrupt page says that knockdown always interupts regardless of protection. PanSola mentions it in the talk page too. --theeth 09:53, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Anon edit
Anyone with a mesmer want to confirm or deny the anon edit changing the skill cost and activation time? --Rainith 23:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup, looks right --Barek 23:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool, I don't have a mes, and I'm somewhat leery of Anon edits that remove things like that. --Rainith 23:27, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Why?
Anyone has any idea why they nerfed Resolve so badly? The -4 at 8 Inspiration was bad enough as it is. I am not sure anyone will be able to use this kill now except maybe an ele with a huge enrgy pool or a Mesmer with 16 Inspiration. Why not just delete the skill? --Karlos 23:15, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Rangers were using it to trap in the middle of combat. I'd wager that has something to do with it. --Bishop 23:22, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * And? What's the problem with that? Why make a skill that prevents interrupts and then force people not to use it? --Karlos 23:30, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * I am pretty sure that they didn't want it to be used for trapping in combat and it turned out to be too powerfull, so they had to tune it down for the trapping use. This renders the skill almost useless for others thou. --Gem 23:37, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * They didn't delete it because it still has a place in some builds. You sound awfully sore, Karlos, but I don't think this skill was designed for anything other than primary Eles or Mesmers. Shandy 23:39, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * I don't even have a ranger, so I am not personally at a loss here. :) I am angry because the skill is down right useless right now. Think about it. The only two people who can use this skill are primary Mesmers pumping their Inspiration to an insane 15 or an Elementalist with a high pool of energy. Now, let's rethink those choice again. A Mesmer spending a LOT less into fast casting will become down right uninterruptable anyway. And an Elementalist cannot afford to spend 12 in Inspiration most of the time, so he will likely lose 6 energy or so per interrupt. Which means, by the time he's done casting Meteor Shower, he's lost all his energy. Instead he will use the much overlooked Glyph of Concentration. Therefore, the skill has been rendered obsolete. What they SHOULD have done is redefine "easily interrupted" so that it entails exhaustion or energy loss. That would have nerfed a trapper using resolve without completely destroying the skill. --Karlos 23:50, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah, I think the modification kind of sucks, too. Wouldn't've been that hard to make "easily interruptible" trump other effects (this would power up "Dazed" a little bit, to be sure, but knockdown seems to dominate the non-mesmery interruption game, anyway). I'm rather peeved that it now costs twice as much to use this skill on my N/Me. I still see Mantra of Resolve being potentially useful for a lightning spiker (though I don't play one myself, so correct me if I'm wrong here) or maybe a PVE necromancer with enough Soul Reaping and damage output strong enough to make energy moot. I really don't see any mesmer primary, even a really big Inspiration fan (not that many of those in the game, sadly... awesome skill line, though), using this thing: interrupt mesmers cast so fast that it's basically impossible to counter-interrupt them, Backfire/&c. spammers burn so much energy that they really can't afford to lose 5 or 6 each time they get hit, and illusionists are probably better off using Mantra of Persistence to make each spell count or loading up on Fast Casting. Okay, back to Mantra of Concentration for me! --130.58 00:45, 4 March 2006 (CST)


 * Doesn't this also make quite a few popular 55-monk-style UW builds noticeably weaker? --130.58 00:45, 4 March 2006 (CST)

I am pretty pissed off about this change because I play rangers mostly in PvP. It seems that Anet were thinking that if they were going to nerf Gale into the ground (and boy was Gale nerfed but good), the best they can do to placate the masses is to add some "balancing" nerfs to the skills that Gale was needed to counter. Thus, we have a weaker Mantra of Resolve and a slightly less spammable Blackout. But man! Crip, dust trap, resolve and blackout all hit at once -- truly a bad day to be a R/Me. 00:12, 4 March 2006 (CST)


 * What's the big deal with trappers anyway? They are not any more overpowering that lousy IWAY warriors who have overrun the hall now for over 4 months! It's not like 55 rangers are taking over the game the way 55 monks did (and still do)! --Karlos 00:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)


 * I don't think trappers are broken forever, as you can still reliably put traps up while getting hit a few times. However, this change means that it's much harder to trap while under heavy fire from the other team, which is more or less how it should be. I think this puts the skill at about the same level as, say, Whirling Defense for trapping now: it's okay for a hit or two, but won't let you trap while being ganked. Groups with multiple trappers are still pretty viable, but the lone trapper running headlong into combat like a giant bomb probably isn't. Sneaky or defensive trapping isn't hurt very much by this, though, in my opinion. And, on the bright side, we might see something other than R/Me for trappers now (it'll probably just be a whole wave of "Victory is Mine!" spammers, though). --130.58 00:45, 4 March 2006 (CST)

I think this wasn't changed with trappers in mind but with casters. Trappers were merely collateral damage. Most interrupts cost 10e to use, with some that are 5e and some that are 15e (well, and 25e for concussion). Before, with NO points in inspiration, it cost you 7e to prevent interruption and you could usually get that down to 6e with spare attribute points. This meant, in a lot of cases, it cost significantly more for the person to fail to interrupt than it did for you to prevent the interrupt. With a minor investment you were able to get that down to 5e, and with modest (at 8 attribute) down to 4e. This update shifted all the costs up by 2-3e for corresponding attribute values. I think it was broken to cost you 5 attribute points to, in effect, not only prevent interruption but to make your interrupter often actually lose double what you lose in energy. --68.142.14.11 03:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)


 * That's not a fair trade though. An interrupter's job is usually to disrupt (he's not expending energy doin other things), the target's job is not to resist interruption it is to do an actual thing, like heal or nuke or something. Your math also does not factor in the cost of the energy of the spell being interrupted. i.e. The situation beings with the victim having already invested 15 energy, on average, in a skill. So, if a monk put on Resolve, then tried to cast Aegis, a mesmer tried Power Drain and Power Leak on him and failed. He still lost 15 energy and the monk lost 25 (assumping a loss per interrupt of 5), he wins.
 * More importantly, Interrupters usually combine it with another aspect of shutting down foes. For example, the Scythe of Chaos uses Energy draining to make your Mantra of Resolve very costly or even break it altogether. Same thing with the Grasping Darknesses they drain you with Fear Me, then interrupt you. Or how about Migraine you to a halt (Meteor Shower taking 10 seconds to cast) then have your own Resolve drain your energy pool? Or use skill denial, like Blackout, Diversion and Power Block. --Karlos 20:25, 4 March 2006 (CST)


 * It doesn't factor in the interruptee's skill cost because, well, it shouldn't. The interruptee gets to use the skill, which is exactly why the interrupter counts as losing energy, as the interrupter DOESN'T get the interrupt's effect.  Looking at it as a whole with the monk spending 25e, you ignored the fact that he did actually cast aegis.  If the mesmer weren't even involved, he'd still be spending 15e and casting aegis.  I doubt you'd say he "lost" 15e in that case.  That 15e has nothing to do with interrupts or resolve.  To reiterate my original point, resolve meant that the monk traded 10e to make the mesmer both throw away 15e and start the recharge timer on two of his interrupts.


 * Similarly, using various kinds of denial doesn't have much to do with resolve. (Though, I don't even see what you were trying to say by bringing up blackout, diversion, or power block.)  If you use resolve, you already made the choice that you're willing to pay some amount of energy per interrupt attempt to prevent those interrupts.  If someone's hitting you with energy denial, it doesn't change the amount of energy you spend to prevent interrupts.  Energy denial does not change this.  You can't argue that the denial makes it unfair, because then you're saying energy denial makes everything unfair.  "Five energy to prevent interruption is unfair when I'm getting denied energy" works out the same as "15e to cast aegis when I'm getting denied energy is unfair."


 * Migraine also does not change the cost. If it means the difference between a mesmer casting their entire bar of interrupts at one spell or not, you still spend the same energy per interrupt.  In fact, let's say the monk is casting aegis again but the mesmer tries to power drain, leak, spike, and use cry of frustration.  At all points, if the monk has the spare energy, this works out well for the monk.  If he has it, the monk spends 35e to get the effect of aegis, make the mesmer lose 40e, and start the recharge on all four of those interrupts.  If he doesn't, then all the monk loses is what he'd lose if he didn't have resolve in the first place (besides any interrupts he could pay for before running out).  --68.142.14.57 02:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)


 * I think this analysis is, for the most part, correct. I feel like, now, we have two equally viable choices: Mantra of Resolve for heavy-duty interrupt protection and Mantra of Concentration for cheap one-time interrupt prevention. Whereas, before, Mantra of Resolve was pretty clearly superior (since you could get the per-interrupt cost lower than Mantra of Concentration, and it could counter a whole bunch of interrupts in sequence rather than 1 in 20 seconds at most. Now there's a reason to use both skills, depending on the situation and how heavily you expect to be bombarded with interrupts. --130.58 03:24, 5 March 2006 (CST)


 * I think you didn't get my point about energy denial. Here we go again. Consider what the Scythe do, Energy Surge + Energy Tap, then an interrupt. This will usually BREAK Mantra of Resolve (which ends if you don't have enough energy to cover the loss). So, my point is, an interrupter could just walk around with 4 interrupts and spam them all on one target even though none of them worked, but that is a level of human intelligence that I hope the designers of the game are catering to. Back in the real world, if mid-battle you have 30 energy, and I use Drain, Tap and then an interrupt. I lost less energy than you and I drained your energy so you can't heal the guy who is desperately in need of that heal.
 * And I don't see getting off Aegis in 4 seconds, or at twice the cost as exactly a great success for me as a monk. --Karlos 03:51, 5 March 2006 (CST)


 * I specifically addressed energy drain. It has nothing to do with the cost to prevent the interrupt.  As I already said, if not having energy makes paying Xe to prevent interrupt unfair, then it makes spending Xe to cast anything in the first place unfair, which is obviously a fallacy.  Using drain and tap have nothing to do with the issue.  Someone could use drain, then tap, and do anything.  The interrupter still spends more energy than the interruptee.  You're saying that a monk with energy drain and aegis makes aegis broken because the aegis costs no energy because you spend the energy you gained from energy drain.  Getting tapped, drained, then interrupted with resolve up doesn't suck because of resolve, but because you got tapped and drained!  It's like counting the aegis cost as in your first reply: it's going to happen anyway and doesn't involve resolve.


 * I have no idea what your point is, even though you have a sentence trying to explain it. That using the quadruple interrupts is smart?  I suppose, if the goal is to try to break resolve.  But I don't know what you're implying.  The existence of a way to counter a skill doesn't make or break fairness.  And thanks for ignoring half the outcome of the quadruple interrupt example-- that the mesmer just neutered himself for 20s by using half his skill bar, spent even more energy than the monk, failed to gain ~20 energy from his power drain, failed to make the enemy lose ~20 energy with power leak, failed to deal ~100 damage with power spike, and failed to potentially interrupt other members of the monk's team-- and coming across looking stupid with your closing line.  Yes, that is a success for the monk.  --68.142.14.57 04:20, 5 March 2006 (CST)


 * I think there is a language barrier, age barrier or socio-ecnomic barrier or something, because I certainly did not talk about the monk using Energy Drain, I am talking about the interrupter using energy draining skills ALONG with interrupts so that EVEN if the interrupts are shielded by Resolve they victim still is rendered helpless. I'll drop this. Not even sure either of us will gain anything from continuing this. --Karlos 04:54, 5 March 2006 (CST)