File talk:NaziSign.jpg

Symbol use
As this symbol has raised concerns on Requests for adminship/Auron of Neon and GuildWiki talk:Requests for adminship/Auron of Neon, I'm starting a discussion on it here. As mentioned in Swastica, the use of the symbol in many western countries is controversial to say the least. More-so to some people than to others. In some countries, the image is even illegal outside of historical documentation. I understand that the symbol is not intended here as offensive, but merely as decoration for a satirical joke for a userbox; but the fact remains that the very appearance of the symbol is highly offensive to some people, bringing out very strong emotional responses. My personal opinion is that the symbol should be removed from GuildWiki, and the user should select a different symbol for the purposes of the userbox. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:46, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * In my opinion, that is a reasonable solution. NightAngel 14:56, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Agreed. --Rainith 15:23, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Dittoo &mdash; Skuld


 * I, too, agree. This symbol, and the term "Nazi", shouldn't be used lightly. Most people calling somebody a "Nazi" have got little clue of the horrible history behind that name. Unfortunatly the use of the term has become very common. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 16:10, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * If I can say something, I also agree that this Swastika, even that its history is long enough to mean something else, the pain and emotions that it represent in our near-past is still too great to put it anywhere without hurt someone (I've been on camp as visitor, and even born after theses events, the emotion is not fake and really painfull).. so.. I agree to let Auron to choose another one (and change the word "Nazi" in the same time) Corsaire 16:49, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Agree as well. --Dirigible 02:51, 28 December 2006 (CST)

i disagree with deleting it. its internet freedom of speech. I wont pretend i know alot about foreign government(have an American education so i dont know much), but i am a huge advocate for free speech and opinion on the internet. whether something offends someone should really not be a concern unless you are selling something. furthermore the Swastika has many other meanings, and i dont think the notion that "Nazism is evil" is one that should be carried on. Nazis were hardly the only antisemitic group of their time, hating jews was 'the thing' before WWII(american schools wont teach you that of course). there are many bigger things in the word to be worried about that could actually harm us today, ever hear of Kim Jong-il, or Darfur?--Coloneh RIP 02:43, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I agree with deletion and to Coloneh: there isn't freedom of speech and expression on GuildWiki. It's the same reason we don't advertise porn and game exploits. It's both offensive and is harmful to our reputation as a fan-site and takes away from our image. — Jyro X 03:05, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Coloneh: that specific incarnation of the swastika symbol (black in a white circle, red background) really only has one context. I don't have a stake or position in this, but it's undeniable that the flag is a lot more powerful of a symbol than just the word "nazi". It hasn't been turned into generic term in the same way, for starters. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 03:45, 28 December 2006 (CST)


 * Two things, I believe in free speech but I wouldn't fly the Nazi flag outside my house to prove that point. Secondly we're a documentation site for a game, we're not a country being repressed by a vicious tyrant or a democratic land of the free. We're a Guild Wars documentation site and that's pretty much it, this is of absolutely no value to the site as such, it is simply a symbol that people here, myself included are finding offensive. It is irrelevent to discuss the merits of Nazi Germany, free speech, anti-Semitism, reactions to symbolism etc. this is for a userbox which has nothing to do with the main aims of the GuildWiki (despite being the FoTM atm), Zingyao's armour look a bit like a Swastica but it's part of the game so it should definately be kept, but cries of outrage across an RFA and two talk pages for a userbox picture to me say it's not worth keeping this picture. --Xasxas256 06:34, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Delete it -Auron  06:50, 28 December 2006 (CST)

ok. some of those points made sense, some didnt, but its done anyways.--Coloneh RIP 14:13, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Actually, they didn't. I've given this much thought in the past two days, and have an actual response (not a rant/angered reaction). The point that it offends someone is moot; for one, it's my userpage, and for two, it wasn't up for discussion to begin with. I posted the userbox for all those who have a sense of humor; if anyone was offended, QQ. I'm not here to make you feel warm and fuzzy, or even remotely at peace. I didn't tell anybody to come to my userpage, and I didn't tell anybody to read my userboxes; so why do they alluva sudden get the right to tell me to remove it? If anyone is being remotely Nazi here, it's not me. -Auron  05:59, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Just a quick comment here: If you go back to the argument and read it all you won't find me telling you what to do. My goal is not to force you to change your userspace, auron, it was for you to handle the topic, and the users concerned with it, with respect. That's all. NightAngel 07:16, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Its really difficult to respect someone who goes out of their way to be offended.--Coloneh RIP 17:04, 31 December 2006 (CST)

You know what? Happy new year, Coloneh, auron and everybody else. May 2007 be a year of peace and happiness, at least in this little corner of the world. We had a (usually) healthy debate and we all said our minds. Time to let this rest. Now, if you want to argue about the build section, or Auron's merits for administrator, or anything else, by all means, bring it on, but do it somewhere else, alright? :) NightAngel 18:07, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Happy new year to you as well. --Dirigible 22:22, 31 December 2006 (CST)