User talk:Felix Omni/archive8

In with the new.
Ohi. 11:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Old is the new new, but I bet you knew that. Ezekiel  [Talk]  11:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I knew new is the old new and old is the new new, if that's what you mean. Gnu.[[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 11:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheers
Welcome back from the exile. --mendel 16:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Where's my "welcome back"? D: -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  16:12, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know, where are your friends? ;-P --mendel 16:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I was actually hoping for a regiment of soldiers so I could throw open my coat and shout "Here is your emperor! Shoot him if you will!" Then we'd storm Paris. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You historical flasher, you. Also, when was it decided employee section would be removed, I missed that discussion. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  23:37, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed all the employee section links after Roland noted on Izzy's talk page that the link was no longer working. I checked the ArenaNet website, and it seems that the employee section no longer exists at all- at least not on their website. If it was just moved and anyone can find it, I will gladly put the new links in myself. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I like
Your new sig Random Time 06:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, thanks! You're the first one to comment. I was beginning to despair. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I liked your old one, but this one's okay... I guess. :P Actually, I think it's kinda cute.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I hearby revoke your manly license on the grounds that you have used the word "cute". &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  14:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, I lost it a long time ago because I call my cats cute all the time. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's--- I--- Well you-- .... I've got nothing for that. Wow man, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  17:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 *  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 08:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very, very true. Kittehs r teh sooper awsum win. :D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Puppies are better tbh imo iirc. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The stupid help box
You can get rid of it by going to Preferences, selecting the Editing tab, and checking the box next to "Do not show editing tips." I really wish they'd default it to off. D: 22:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Its already off, and it still shows. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But only with the new monaco skin. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Omfg deja vu. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Revert war on Legendary Sword
Hi, I know this was yesterday, but apparently this is still an issue. Don't engage in a revert war, even if you think the information entered is false. If your undo is reverted itself, leave it be -- contact the person reverting (i.e. the one repeatedly putting in said false information) and/or discuss on the relevant talk page. If that person continues, try to keep discussing or simply wait it out. Toodles, from your friendly neighbourhood do-goody, -- R  Phalange  20:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, you're late - I already discussed this with Felix, if only because we met on IRC. :-) --mendel 21:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm asking you nicely...
...please don't bait me. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  18:42, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever do you mean? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * He means he dosen't wish for you to impale any worms on him and then use him to lure aquatic creatures to their deaths for the purposes of providing nutritional sustinance--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk /Contribs ) 19:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * * Sustenance, but rest assured that I shall not do that. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats ok, there shouldn't be any problems then. I can sleep easy tonight--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk /Contribs</B> ) 19:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * May I suggest simply not biting, in that case? --◄mendel► 20:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A wiki takes cooperation from both sides. Neither party should bait nor bite respectively. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  20:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, look who's talking. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:37, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said, neither party should bait nor bite. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  20:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Historical note: the alledged bait was here. --◄mendel► 12:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

^jo dude
. I think it's considered a Monster Skill by those skills. --- -- (s)talkpage  08:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's probably the case, but because it's a skill that can be used by humans without changing forms, I thought it would be a decent idea to note it anyway. Incidentally, the note was derived from Midgetchinese's edit to Secret Lair of the Snowmen. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ye, it's a good note. But the wording is odd, cause it is considered a spell. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  08:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How about something like "This spell may not be selected by" etc skills. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Selected -> Stolen / disabled / copied, and I'm fine with it :> Selected sounds like selecting a skill with SoC :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  08:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Brb
I shall be out of town until Sunday night, or Monday perhaps. 03:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See ya then, then <font color="Orange">Random Time 09:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Shin Angyo Onshi
You know what I'm going to ask here if this message was a question instead of a statement - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I had to get Volume 17 by torrent. QQ [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate you, I still haven't got my hands on the last volume. I'm still only up to the part of the Sando/Munsu fight. - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Spoilers, Snape kills Munsu. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What? Luke and Leia are brothers and sisters? - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Kormir is the Goddess of Truth. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've actually read some spoilers (and I'm still kicking myself over it) so I know about what Sando is and what happens to Munsu but not much after that. Miss Hwang *drools* - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hwang is noob. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I apologize for not being into bestiality - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hee hee, "Hwang" &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia   04:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Rellik is forgiven, but surge must be banz. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was unaware that the 'r' in my name was capitalized. Tis a most jarring discovery indeed.
 * And yes Surge, I'm sure everyone missed out on your incredibly insightful and complex joke and required a message stating it as such. A pity since not only does 'Hwang' push the boundaries of humour and innovation into the great blue yonder, it's also a pioneer as I highly doubt there has been any jokes about the pronunciation of certain words before. - <font color="darkBlue">b.r  // <font color="Black">talk  04:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't a man enjoy an immature snicker every now and again? &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia ''' 04:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It was capitalized only because it began a sentence. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * @Surge; no. @Felix; I am rellik. I am above established language conventions - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And established HTML conventions, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  04:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I take them more as 'guidelines' - <font color="darkBlue">b.r // <font color="Black">talk  04:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sloppy Codes
I've been browsing through some of your pages in edit mode and some of your tags are pretty sloppy (closing tags with for example) and I was wondering if I could have permission to clean them up here and there. I won't update to inline styles if you don't want me to, but I can also do that, too. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  00:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly trained in web design; that is to say I had little to no experience when I came to the wiki, and everything I've done I basically pieced together from other people's code. That being said, sure! Feel free to fix up anything you come across. And thank you. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sweet. I'm kinda practicing proof-reading codes and junk, so yeah thanks for letting me, lol. I learned html and junk from this site if you're interested. I'll get crackin' in a bit. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  03:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * W3 Schools is a very useful site, I usually reference them first when I need help with HTML/CSS. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I love em, but their Javascripting tutorials are crap. I just can't manage to teach myself how to do it. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  06:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

u = phailsauce
I got your whisper in-game earlier, and I would've whispered back, but you were set to "do not disturb". :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael  18:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, I was in TA. Can't allow your ramblings to disturb me after all. :o [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh. Well then.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * TA is srs bsns. &mdash; Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] &mdash;  (contribs) 00:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

sig
I miss the old one. Every time I see those green boxes I think "who's that?" (T/C) 22:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed my signature about the same time that a ton of drama had just blown over, to signify that perhaps it was time for everyone to change a few things about themselves. That being said, the green boxes are a bit goofy. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the green boxes, they make you seem punky =D -- Shadowphoenix  22:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Perfect World
Are you going on the Malaxsian server, or will you be joining the NA beta? --◄mendel► 21:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * NA beta for sure. Most of RageQuit will be moving there come August 17th or 23rd or somewhere around there. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:59, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Huh
Is that thing real?
 * What thing? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a lie. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  00:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Whilst
Would you like to check these as well? --◄mendel► 22:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Internet says the words are interchangeable, with one being the more archaic spelling. Also, apparently "while" can mean "until" in certain English dialects. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  22:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
You = No phail. 21:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This is true. You're welcome. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:35, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah right it is :D --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  23:05, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ^gud stuf rite there --98.218.187.227 23:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The real good stuff is at the top. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ...no u --98.218.187.227 23:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That makes so little sense I have to agree. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 23:43, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "Old is the new new, but I bet you knew that." is indeed very good stuff. So is beer. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  00:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I hear you like theater
You may like this. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia   23:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I read about this in the paper! XD [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:59, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Had you already seen it? &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  04:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Tell me what you think about it if you watch it then, it's pretty freakin' amazing, I think. But then, I'm a hopeless loser. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  04:23, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I require
More votes, if you have nothing better to do. (I'd bother other people first, but you're on now.) --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest 04:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All of those girls are wielding Tormented Faces of Warding. Who drew those abominations? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I missed the joke. Are you calling all of the girls ugly? And I don't know who drew them. Someone from Nival probably drew the icons, but I don't know who made the fan art though. They're all copyrighted, though- try right clicking. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  04:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume you picked Wyngaal? --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest 04:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You have no poll choice for Irina. Irina and Freyda look most mature, judging from the art - I think they ought to fit you best, unless you're going for the look of a certain profession/class. --◄mendel► 06:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And now I can't put her in unless I reset the poll :(
 * I guess I'll leave a note to vote for her on the talk page. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest 15:11, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Picking an avatar of the opposite sex? Has GuildWiki itself become infused with MMORPG syndrome? (Many Men Online RolePlaying Girls, I think) Kidding of course :p In any caes I am assuming you have all the copyright issues ironed out? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't infringe upon any copyright issues by linking, do I? Unless you mean you thought I would be using the avatar here... which I can't (unfortunately), due to copyright laws. The site I plan to use them on is the site they're from- I don't break copyright laws there :) --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  00:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

re online
No, I don't hate you. In fact, I think you have made a remarkable turnaround and you are right back to where you first were when I promoted you - witty, able, and conscientious. If you asked I would support you for sysoption again right now, to be honest. I respect you and even find you frequently amusing again. And I think you are doing a great job of steering clear from those things which caused so much problems earlier; although you do still get in the occasional veiled potshot, but that is understandable and I would do the same thing myself if I was in your position. So, no, I don't hate you. Silence can be interpreted as many things but for Guild Wars, it almost always means "I am busy with the game and didn't see your pm" these days. (T/C) 06:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I was not expecting this! Such words bring a smile to my face; maybe I'm something of a "carebear," but I really enjoy it when people compliment each other. As for re-sysoption, it's not something I'm considering pursuing at the moment. I'm very busy in real life right now- Once Upon a Mattress opened tonight, and that will take a good deal of my time and energy this week and next weekend. Also, I think the wiki is in very good shape right now- Ishmael works on whatever he can find for hours every day, Viper is here in the morning (my morning, that is), and Jedi has bunches of plans for new exciting explosions of color pony apple rabbit.
 * In conclusion, I'm glad to know that I've been able to restore some of your trust and respect for me, and I'm also serenely content with the wiki today. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Block, again
I've responded to your... request?... on Phalange's talk. From that display of attitude, and judging from conversations like this, I don't think you're currently capable of positively contributing without too many negatives coming into play. You have an effect on people. You're one of the more popular people around, even if you've got an enemy list about as big as mine. But that means you need to pick your battles carefully, and when dealing with potential enemies (or users you've had severe disagreements with before), you need to make sure your comments don't come across as aggressive/trolling/baiting/whatnot. If you tried, and the person just mistook your words, that's fine. Those cases are also usually obvious to a third party. But telling someone to leave if they don't meet your personal level of dedication or contribution count or whatever the hell isn't okay. As always, if you have an issue with someone, post about it on their talk page. If you're afraid to do that (because of potential community input or user feedback), contact any of the sysops (or bureaucrats, if the issue is with a sysop, as it is in this case) and tell them your issue. Going vigilante on sysops you don't like doesn't help anything. I promoted Phalange, but that doesn't mean I'll turn a blind eye to anything he's doing wrong. That goes even more so for Pan and JediRogue - I would be very surprised if they were willing to ignore bad conduct on Phalange's part. Even though demotion is a rare occurrence, it isn't out of the question if the offense is heinous enough. Keep the channels open, and when you have an issue, talk it out before doing stuff like removing them from the active sysops list :< - Auron 15:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * When Warwick removed me from the active sysop list, no one complained. Maybe it's not the act itself that bothers you, but the way or manner in which Felix approached the issue? If so, I would encourage you (Auron) to reconsider the ban-worthiness of this action. I think Felix has made great strides towards improvement in his conduct since the last time he was banned (see above section) and this is one deviation from otherwise normal conduct. Asking Felix to retract his comment and think more about how it would read to Phalange/others would be a more appropriate resonse, I think, than banning for a single and not very heinous offense. Really, I don't see Felix being "a troll" in hs daily contributions, unless you consider whining about the recent skillchanges as trolling. But hey, we're all doing that in some way or other. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you aware....
of this? 65I0HNvTDH4. &mdash; Powersurge360  03:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You have no idea how happy that made me. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Epic. Now I think I'll vote Obama. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That was the best EVAR <font face = "Matura MT Script Capitals">Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 08:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

arretez
Let it go. You've done enough by instigating the discussion; don't further implicate yourself and inadvertently give substance to Auron's ban. I thought that you had improved; don't make me doubt again. (T/C) 08:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't going to. >.> [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * An apology to those slighted also does wonders for your image, you know. And thanks. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Why tell me, though? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because I am psychic and drop somewhat indirect hints to future events which have not happened yet. ;) If you want that in plainer words, I think you should apologize to R.Phalange for the manner in which you addressed him, both on his talk page and on the Admin Info discussion page. Your points are valid and your concerns are genuine, but you could have gone about making them known without being rude and tactless (to put it bluntly). I know that if I read such comments directed towards me, I would not feel very happy about them or you. And most importantly, they certainly wouldn't be much compulsion to change. After all, if you know you aren't doing your job, having someone shove the fact down your throat isn't the best motivation.
 * If you are feeling very magnaminous, I also think an apology to Auron wouldn't be unappreciated. You could explain to him your frustrations and how you try hard not to let these sorts of issues get to you anymore; that this was a blip and unintentional; that you don't ever mean to cause drama or disruption. I understand that that would be asking for a lot...nevertheless, if I can even guess at what Auron is thinking, I believe that he sees you as a thorn in the Wiki's side right now. Auron doesn't dislike anyone personally; his concerns are with the Wiki. Thus, even though it was never intentional, you could apologize for the real and perceived harm you have done to the Wiki, both now and in the past, and show how you have made progress away from "that Felix". I can't say whether he will accept such a thing or even /care, but you will never know until you try - and it wouldn't hurt you in any case. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Entropy, I hate to say this yet again, but your judgment of Auron's character, and by extension Phalange's character, is 100% wrong. He deserves no apology and no respect. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Respect is earned and not deserved; but on a Wiki that makes things fall apart very quickly. I see that your mind is set and so I will drop the matter; it's in the other sysops' hands now. Because if one of us is totally wrong, I can only hope that the seed of dissent has been planted, and that we really know what we're doing. Beyond that I have not the power to change. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Auron deserves no respect because he has done nothing to earn it. Quite the opposite, in fact. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Now you've really done it. Because I am personally conflicted - at least three times over - I won't be the one to take any action, beyond saying that you are truly swimming with the sharks now and I've no longer the heart to even try and help you out. Mendel had the sense to at least pass off his hit-page(s) as "research on precedents" or some other policy-oriented goal. You are not so cunning. (T/C) 09:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You asked me to discuss Phalange's character elsewhere, that is exactly what I am doing. I will change the links to be less inflammatory, but I am breaking neither policy nor law by storing them in my userspace. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You act as though you think I have formed my judgments without seeing each and every single one of those blunders. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I have changed my mind. 09:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Too late, the damage has been done. Even if it's not backed by a ban, I think you ought to consider taking a break from the Wiki for awhile. As for me, my personal liking and acceptance of you remains untouched...but I can't say the same for trust. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Axes - grind them or bury them? Sometimes you have to do one before you can do the other. Care must be taken to stop heads from rolling in the process, though. Compromise.

I have never consciously compiled a hit list. It has always been sufficient for me to examine the present behaviour I was unhappy with and address that. (Is this a good place to note that I liked Auron's statement of the ban reason this time? I didn't agree with it, but it succinctly stated what the ban was about.) If I wanted to form an opinion about R.Phalange/brains12 as a person, I'd examine past and present contributions here and on GWW, compile a digest, and get him to comment on that. On the contrary, what Felix has done was state his grievances with another wiki user; the language needed to be toned down, but knowing what the grievances are by having them on the wiki is, in my eyes, a positive thing. --◄mendel► 14:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Entropy, I have been considering for the past half dozen hours or so whether to make the following statement, and I have decided that, though it may seem like a terrible thing to say, I need to say it. If your relationship with Auron is an example of your trust, I do not want it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 16:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What relationship? For quite some time (1 month? 2? 3? I lose count) I haven't communicated with Auron outside the Wiki other than some passing comments in-game, all of which was RL- or GW-oriented. I could count the number of times that occurred on one hand. If you think that taints me, then I wonder why you'd ask me to join IRC... perhaps you wouldn't like me dealing with Auron except in places it can be monitored?
 * I trust Auron to do the right thing, think his actions through, and strive for the betterment of the Wiki. And from what few edits he does I can tell that he's not oblivious to everything that goes on here. Most of the time Auron doesn't let me down...and if he does there's always a good explanation why.
 * I have different expectations for different people. You and I have sparred like this repeatedly, but ever since your last (sustained) ban it seemed that you were working to improve yourself by actively avoiding and extricating yourself from matters which could potentially turn inflammatory...I hadn't seen any more incendiary rhetoric, uncalled-for comments, serious breaches of civility, etc. Then you threw it all away by reacting to something which I think was quite minor...I had trusted that you were wise enough to know when you were getting in over your head, and that you'd realize your mistake and catch yourself. I was let down, though. I know that you only want the best for the Wiki, etc., but I can't trust you to avoid such errors right now, maybe not ever again. I don't trust you to take the diplomatic tact and think about how others might see your words before you post them...at least in matters which concern R.Phalange, Auron, etc. Other than that, you're just fine discussing policy, ideas, skill changes, etc., hardly a troll there. And you still make edits to mainspace which are good. So really I don't know what to think. That's why I don't trust you so much anymore...I like consistency. If I could count on you only losing yourself in relation to R.Phalange and Auron etc. then that would even be better, though I would still dislike it. But now I'm all "slippery slope".
 * If you don't want me to trust you with Wiki matters, then that's fine with me, since I wouldn't ever take any administrative action for or against you; too many personal conflicts. If it's my friendship that you don't want, that is another matter. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Entropy, I suppose that since Felix doesn't trust Auron nearly as much as you do, your trust in Auron implies for him that there is something going on that we don't see. It is testament to the high opinion Felix has of you that he doesn't just put it down to a lapse of judgment on your part (or rather, that he is looking for an explanation for it).
 * Disclaimer: I am not talking for Felix, I merely feel that this is an observation that has its place here. I myself don't particularly trust or distrust Auron because I am not quick to do either (as you may have noticed) and I know him too little. --◄mendel► 12:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Item malls
My experience with Silkroad has led me to believe that the ingame-store business model of MMORPGS implies that after a certain level (when you're hooked) the game contains lots of grind that is made bearable by spending cash, and that cash you have to spend at this point exceeds the investment for a subscription-type game. (I'd love to have a look at the Perfect World store, though, once it is online).

I recognize that Guild Wars could be pretty cool game and yet have an in-game store. The following changes would be made: The last two suggestions could be met by introducing a cash currency (this is usually done for the in-game store anyhow) and using that in-game to pay at the armor crafter or merchant.
 * subscription fee for Ursan blessing
 * some sets (1-3) of max armor available in the in-game store from the beginning (no more "taxi to consulate docks" or droks)
 * bonus weapons or miniatures
 * soundtrack (having to buy the soundtrack extension at another site can't help sales)
 * a necessary ingredient for some prestige armor sets only available in the in-game store
 * consumables no longer available at merchants

If you spent no money on the game, the Guild Wars you'd play would be the idealized version that Quizzical yearns for; yet I believe a large enough proportion of the player base would take the opportunity to spend money to make this profitable. --◄mendel► 12:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Subscription for Ursan Blessing would me MAJOR lulz, but also cause player revolt/millions of dollars profit or loss. :)
 * I don't like the idea of "the game is free but you have to spend money to get some of the best/cool/other stuff". Unless there was also a way to still get those max armor, cons, etc. through teh PvE/PvP, then it's fine. Especially "some prestige armor" because that's pushing it...things like that lose their status quo quickly because unlike, say... Obsidian Armor which is a pain at best to craft, it is so effortless to pay $$$, it proves nothing. So there would have to be some subtle differences between the bought version and the earned version. Now, I'm not saying that people don't buy gold online, get run through FoW to armorsmith, and get loaned all the materials...but even that, you can't tell (other than Level 1/shoddy skills/other eq); and it at least shows they have fairly high-profile friends. At the very least it shows they are dedicated to GW enough to some way or other get that armor. I guess my main point is that you never should classify players by those who can afford to pay money and those who can't. The current Online Store is pretty good about that, since only thing exclusive to there is Character Slots which isn't 100% necessary in any way, not really.
 * The Soundtrack, though, ought to be available from GW/ANet, I agree there 100%. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, you don't get me completely on the armor idea. The only armor you could buy with money corresponds to the first max armor you could get. People taxi to the consulate just to have an easy time in Istan, and ANet could earn money from that.
 * The obsidian armor would still be a pain to craft,but you couldn't craft it at all if you didn't have ingame-store currency. Since not having that armor doesn't really affect your gameplay, it's no big deal to deny it to non-paying players; and if you have been playing the game to the point where you actually can craft obsidian armor, it'd be fair to pay a little for the game you've been playing all this time.
 * Now sweet-tooth or drunkard would be easy to achieve if you could just buy these consumables from the store; but you could still get them from drops, and today you can buy in-game gold and buy these titles anyway, their reputation isn't high as a result (but prices for these drops are). --◄mendel► 14:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am affronted that you would even think like this.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ 14:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? Because I think Guild Wars could totally rule all those free-to-play games? --◄mendel► 14:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Entropy gets you completely tbh. As I see it: Entropy wants it as-is; You must earn it in game. Mendel wants it to be buy-able after spending real money. (no need for a huge paragraphs to state that :P ).
 * Also, it can affect your gameplay. For me, it's a hobby to collect Elite armor sets. I now have 8 on my Ele (iirc. or 10, idk exactly, been a while again). If I'd have to pay for them, they wouldn't feel that prestiguous, cause it's just another X bucks spent. And I wouldn't be able to get them by luck. And I've earned most of my Elite sets with a random lucky drop. My Obsidian set is for >60% bought with one Runic Blade drop from the EotN Preview weekend. I wouldn't be so happy with it if I'd have to spend just, like, 5 euro for it. In fact, I probably wouldn't ever have bought it then, and still wander about in Droks armor. Oh, and it's kinda gay to force people to pay cash for max armor. Come on, I've played my character for 60 hours, have beaten a way through everything as normal, and I gotta pay for that max armor set I need to not get nuked to tiny little shreds by Mursaat. No thank you. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You'd still need to get lucky. Everybody (paying or not) would still be able to get may armor in Consulate docks (but you probably couldn't taxi there any more). But after you've played your character for 60 hours for free, paying the company some money for an item you don't really need (you have max armor at that point, just not the prestigious one) in addition to the materials and plat it requires just as it does now seems fair to me. You couldn't just spend X bucks to get these armors. But they wouldn't be free any more, either - except for some of them. --◄mendel► 15:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Warning, lack of structure.
 * You can EBay anything, so in theory everything is worth X real money. But, your idea makes everything prestigious automatically have such a price, and an in-game item price. Wtf? GW is so popular because everything beyond the box and your account key is free. It's like Membership: You want the best, you'd better pay up. I don't see how it makes the game more fun, or better. Or whatever else you may find occurs. And it cuts down the playerbase even further (come on, most of PvE is deserted already. Try forming a PuG for The Wilds, Aurora Glade, Divinity Coast without resorting to calling out for help in alliance, nor using heroes/henches...). Not everyone has a creditcard, but most people would want anything that shows "I've got only half a life/I've got no life at all, as you're able to see, unless you're blind".
 * Oh, and if they want to hinder the taxi'ing, they'd have done that already. Not by putting a price on it, though. Just by fixing the damn quest for once.
 * Also, it'll just further pull GW out of balance, but I don't know how to explain that properly (always been a wonderous quality of mine >.>)..


 * Ok, random comments aside, a structural comment: So, first you say you want to tax people for getting max armor ("The only armor you could buy with money corresponds to the first max armor you could get."). Then I state you shouldn't have to pay real money for that. Then you state something completely different ("Everybody (paying or not) would still be able to get may armor in Consulate docks"). Wtf? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think he's saying: you can pay real money for max armor at say... level 1 in Ascalon City... or play the game until you get to Droknar's Forge and use in game money to buy max armor. --98.213.150.63 16:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't propose to change GW. I am trying to draw a parallel in order to show that a free-to-play MMORPG with an in-game mall that does NOT involve grind (in the way that GW does not) and does not involve selling items that are necessary for enjoyable gameplay is actually feasible. I am not suggesting changing the way GW1 works. I want you to imagine an "item mall" type game that I'd actually enjoy by imagining a GW that never was and never will be.
 * Ways to get max armor in my imagined game:
 * buy it for real money in the store at level 1
 * play to the point in the campaign where you would usually get it and pay for it with drops and money you made from drops/quests/whatever (like it is now, and when you'd get it if you didn't taxi)
 * you can get a few prestige armors the same way, i.e. playing for money and materials
 * for most prestige armors, you need to play for money and materials and in addition purchase a non-tradeable token from the in-game store that is also required to craft that armor. The crafter only crafts when you bring gold, materials and the token.
 * (new suggestion) after crafting 3 prestige armor sets for your character, the crafters don't require the token any more (on that character)
 * --◄mendel► 16:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate this idea. The only reason I play this game is because I'm able to do so with freedom and immerse myself in a fantasy world very different from the one I live in. If this was implemented I would NEVER be able afford the extra stuff and I would never be able to play with the satisfaction of knowing that I am equal to everyone else on the game. I may have more knowledge than others, and others may have more knowledge than me, but it is a surmountable obstacle. I will never be able to afford to get some of the higher class armors if this was put into place, and you force too much of the real world into my leisure. I don't want to be depressed when I see people in shiney armor because I'm poor and can't indulge myself. I'd like to see goals that are attainable through merit, and I will completely leave the game (as I'm sure many others will, given ANet's casual gamer demographic) if it becomes a game where content is sectionalized to the point of armor and based on real pecuniary investments.


 * I guess the point is that I don't want to play in the "bargain bin" version of the world because I can't afford to upgrade. It's hard enough to keep up with the campaigns. Hell, I was only able to get the expansions because a guild member bought me Factions, I worked my ASS off to be able to afford Nightfall (with the rest of my paycheck going to support my family) and receiving EotN as the only gift in two or three years. &mdash; Powersurge360  06:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That is ... unexpected. I'd have thought people without money would find free-to-play MMORPGS quite attractive; and I'm turned off when I find out my gameplay experience is limited because others are getting XP faster because of XP helpers, don't lose items because they have grabbing pets, res scrolls etc., turned off because the game is making me grind more because I have no money (or find the cost too expensive). My idea improves on that precisely because I'd not be playing a bargain-bin version in terms of gameplay, merely in terms of "shiny" and "lazy" (i.e., Ursan). My in-game friends who have money  wouldn't outpace me levelling or be able to do things I didn't want to pay for, except look different. Hmmm, this is probably not entirely true in the case of consumables.
 * So, yes, point taken. You hate all "free-to-play" MMORPGs, and having a Guild Wars-like (grindless) version of these wouldn't change that. --◄mendel► 06:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean "fee to pay" and not "free to play". I'd like to highlight the fact that I wouldn't have a problem if the money version was just an alternate path. BUT if it ever became the only path (like as you had said with armor materials) then yes, I would be dead-set against it. I simply don't have the income to continually spend to keep the game enjoyable. &mdash; Powersurge360  06:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I mean "free to play": games such as Silkroad, Runescape, and countless others allow playing for an unlimited time with no money investment whatsoever. However, some part of the game content is available for money: either as a one-time investment or a monthly "rental", via an in-game store or "item mall". --◄mendel► 07:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Imo, the difference between Membership for RS and, say, WoW, is that for WoW it's mandatory. You pay the price, and you've got everything. For RS, you can play, but suddenly it all ends. And then you have to pay. Out of the blue. Just to progress further.

In the case of GW, it's: Pay the price, and you've got it all. However, those Item Malls would be "Pay the price. But, you'll need to pay some more if you want that edge of (looks/imbaness due to cons)." Which is completely different, and would most likely attract a lot less people.

Of course, the major flaw in RS Membership is that most of the game (in fact, >70% I bet) is Members only, in terms of the whole freaking game. Items, towns, spells... Except for Stats, but you can't take away HP (for example..) from non-members, can you >.> --- -- (s)talkpage  08:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, good summary, except the Item Mall model is "Pay no price" before you pay for the extra edge of imba. The game being free intially (i.e. like an unlimited demo) is what attracts customers in the first place. --◄mendel► 09:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Gw is going microtransactions
But slowly, When GW started, there was no in game store, they introduced it, there was a big revolt when they brought in skill unlock packs, people accept that they're here now, they charge for weapons (game of the year edition) and they charge for slots, it will continue in GW2 - anet is just approaching it differently, sneaking it in. <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  09:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)