Talk:Game updates/Archive15

Archived, hope I did it right.  God Zefir  02:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I know I didn't, but someone can help, and then I'll remember how.Sorry for the inconvenience. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  02:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't see anything wrong with it. -- Dr R. Phalange 02:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I did some more edits. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  02:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you did it right.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea  [Talk]  02:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

What is wrong with these people??
I can't believe they got rid of clay bricks. They wern't hurting anyone. I liked seeing them being listed even though they had no purpose. They could have made a use for them that would have been better. This game gets worse every day.71.248.239.118 12:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you serious or is this a quick jab at people that blow things way out of proportion? The game is worse because Clay Bricks are no longer listed in Material Crafter inventories. Something that had absolutely no impact in the game. Really? Breakfast Mc Ritual 12:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless anet were planning on introducing housing to GW, they were useless. What other use could a Clay Brick have? Some sort of wierd mud armour for Rangers or a Face Paint (although norn's already got that)? Better to take them out of game and free up some space (even if it is a tiny fraction of space). If your getting annoyed over some silly block of mud getting taken out of the game, maybe this isn't the game for you and other games are []  ∞ ∞ IPO ∞ ∞  12:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh sure, my gaming experience is hurt badly because of this. Now I can't do any ...hmm, no..PVE-ers do have a disadvantage because of...nope...Rich people get richer by using clay bricks as....hmm...no! my 31337 build based on clay bricks will not work anymore ! C'mon people..is it *so hard* not to complain about every little thing Anet does ? They just cleaned up a loose end, thats all. If someone cleans up you room from dust, will you complaining about the re arangement of the dust disturbs your life ?...-- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 12:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ...but I liked seeing that area of my room messy. To answer your question: Yes. It is very hard to not complain about an update even when there is nothing to complain about. Breakfast Mc Ritual 12:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm being totally serious.71.248.239.118 17:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 17:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He was being serious in proving that "give players something to complain about, and they will rip your heart out, even if it's pointless." I think Anet did it on purpose just to see if people really will complain about it, and guess what? They did! BWAHAHA!  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * First, they take our economy. Now, they take our homes. Bastards. Yikey HURRRR 18:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Some people...lol. I cannot believe that guy is serious. SO I HERD U LYK MUDBRIKS much?


 * Hahah, that's epic :P But, seriously, every update there's something to moan about. It was missing for this update, so they picked the randomest, most senseless update, I suppose? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to complain about the 2 updates they had to do. --Hel llb rin ger 20:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with the original poster, how else are we going to deliver notes through windows now?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 21:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I can feel the OP's pain. It's a nostalgia thing.  That loose end was just one of the little quirks that were around from the beginning, and it's strange that it's not there anymore.  Big deal?  No.  It's still a little sad though.  RIP Clay Bricks.  We hardly knew ye. Tara Shikaron 21:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps in a later update they'll remove windows too, that way you wont need the clay brick. =P
 * Most Update Whiners have a huge problem, they don't post their whining in GWW cause they fear Anet's divine wrath, but when they do it here, we reject them.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 03:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha! I love the people who post saying they fear A-net's wrath when they're being critical, or alternately, that someone is brown-nosing when they're supportive.  Seriously, are you really that delusional that you think they know or care one way or another?  "Oh dear, X Death To All X, one of the millions of people who've bought our game, said something mean/nice/whatever!"  Yeah.  Honestly, some people have seriously over-inflated opinions of themselves.  Being one in a million means you're opinion counts for about a millionth of what opinions are normally worth (and that's not much to begin with).  But endless streams of users overrate their personal importance by astronomical proportions...  always makes me laugh.  --66.216.249.255 06:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

--Glommon 13:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The only problem with the clay brick thing is that "why work on something like this?" It doesn't really matter and I think there's better things for them to manage.Math Person 20:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, i like to do things right, you know the type of people that have to have everything on its place? If you were a programmer you'd want to get rid of as much bugs as possible. Also, in GW2 they should reintroduce bricks as elite crafting mat for building castles. --Rotfl Mao 21:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * hmmm, clay castle or an Obsidian castle? I know what I'd want (certainly not a castle thats gonna melt when an ele comes with 100 feet)  }{ Ipo™ }{  23:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Trivia: "Obsidian is a very dark, naturally occuring volcanic glass. Like most glasses, it is fairly hard and capable of taking and holding a razor edge, but is brittle." Yeah, I think I'll stick with some other material. Enjoy your 64-trillion-plat brittle castle. By building it with ob shards you should be done in a couple hundred years. XD! Mine will be made out of Deldrimor Steel, for one hell of a tough arsed castle. -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 21:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Gah, ectocastle ftw. The jellyness will absorb most of the damage. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

--Rotfl Mao 12:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Diamond is a stone not a metal but maybe it was intended that way? — TulipVorlax 12:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Diamond Fu22yNavel 12:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Carbon's not a metal--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 16:25, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Call it the Hardest Molecule Formation known --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, build the castle out of Aggregated diamond nanorods, imo. They're even harder :P  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 21:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I thought the whole internet and their mother knew this joke by now. --Rotfl Mao 20:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * i hate to say this, but beta-carbon-nitride is the hardest material that may be within our technological reach, if not, then say hello to neutronium (the densest material known, only known to be found in neutron stars) Omnipresentgnome 21:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Astronomy ftw. GW-Anon 19:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Then again, does neutronium form a network covalent solid? That's what makes solid diamond so hard 67.160.231.235 02:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The issue is that Anet is taking content away from a game that already has nothing to look foward to other than a few "balance" issues from someone who doesn't even play the game anymore. There were clay bricks there, so Anet should have done something with them rather than taking them away. Mgrinshpon 19:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

New Build
What got nerfed now?-- 19:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Scroll untill you see the Phantasmal and the Golem. Yay, drinking liquid steel to morph :> --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, also a nice spin-off? ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Gotta love it :D Also this one -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  I~sk8   (T/C) 20:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Did izzy get fired or something? this is so out of character...3 updates with no nerfs.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 20:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a blessing, you don't wanna jinx it now do you? Just think yourself lucky until he realises they left him out of the update meeting, and he begins to nerf everything into oblivion as revenge :P.  }{ Ipo™ }{  21:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, nice calendar, with precisely enough slots to fill between now and the April 28, 2009 release of Guild Wars 2. ;)  --68.187.144.97 01:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, now that mention it... Is it very possible? &mdash; eX tinctioN 16:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible Stealth Update
I restarted the client, loaded up Rata Sum, and now it's loading? Doesn't that mean they changed something about it, or am I just missing something? ICY  F IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE 21:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Can also mean they edited something that applies to all of GW ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I use -image, and it downloaded ~1 MB of files. It's very possible that something else was downloaded and won't be "released" until later, but it's nothing to ponder about really. Pre-releasing things is very common. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 01:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe they fixed some pathing issues? &mdash; <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN 11:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Downloaded an armor pieces you dont have in archive yet that someone else was wearing? -- Xeon 17:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Update:June 12
sorry for messing it up! i dont know how to properly format it T_T 99.230.8.105 21:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I took care of it.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   I~sk8   (T/C) 21:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

130Hp Derv
This will now work again wont it due to the Mystic Regen :D --Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 21:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. --NYC Elite 03:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Buffs!
Too all that constantly wine about A-net using the nerfbat, I say this; eh... shut up? 193.91.164.176 21:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of the "buffs" weren't that big of a deal. Still were a few nerfs in there anyways. --NYC Elite 03:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What's up with you? It's because ANet split the database in PvE and PvP, just recently, that made this possible. The whines and complains most likely caused that the first place. So you should thank those whiners ^^ If no one complains nothing gets changed. BTW, wine is the stuff you drink :P SCNR --Birchwooda Treehug 08:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Alteration to Strength of Honor
Seriously? Couldn't you have used those resources to alter a different skill? Why the hell does this have a recharge now? Its a maintained enchantment! The only way this would present a problem is if it gets removed before it finished recharging! Personally, I've never seen anyone except me and a very small handful of others even use SoH (because we know how ta make it dance)... Once again, ANet does something that has almost no point. talk 22:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm still in the mood for more ranger skill buffs and not unnecessary stuff. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should play some more PvP, RH. Meta for the last few weeks has involved using a smiting mes to hold SoH on several players, particularly dervishes, for loads of damage. With a recharge, you can mirror it off those players, and it won't be back up for a while. Lord of all tyria 22:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You have to understand, RH is omniscient. If he doesn't see the point of something, it must be that it "has no point".  It can't simply be that he doesn't see it.  :p  "Once again", he doesn't understand the reason why ANet did something, therefore, it must be that ANet is stupid.  There's no other conceivable reason why he wouldn't understand what they did, is there?  ;)  --68.112.114.156 02:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, sarcasm aside, it might be that all I really play is AB, which is about as disorganized as RA. Can't be bothered with halls (don't have a single fame to my name), and I simply prefer AB over TA.  I can see having a mez maintain SoH on melee peeps, kinda makes me wonder why I didn't think of it, lol.  And for the anon, I'm not just omniscient, I'm also clairsentient, telepathic, telekinetic, and have the amazing power to animate masses of bricks.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 06:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * To be more precise, it's this Mesmer. Coupled with 3 Dervishes with Conjures it creates big damage. It is (was?) the HA/GvG meta. Having recharge will make it harder to re-apply and more prone to enchantment removal, while not breaking the skill itself. (Though the build is a lot weaker also thanks to the Mantra nerf) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 08:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

List of Skill-change-history
Not exactly related to the recent changes but I've always been wondering if there's a place in this wiki where skill changes get tracked. I'd like to see a history of a certain skill to see how it got changed over the years. Is there such a place here? BTW comparing the versions of a skill doesn't do it as their descriptions get changed somewhere else (which I didn't figure out yet where). --Birchwooda Treehug 08:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The skill templates is where they get changed, and you can compare histories like that. Above the little info box for the skill is a spot that says "Edit Skill Details". Also, you could go to the Template:Skill Name to find the history there. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  08:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Great....
its fucking awesome how they will Buff skills that nobody uses - such as the 'cant touch this' skill for para - ive never seen it used in since NF got released & yet they think its ok to buff it when people dont use it??????

they have buffed a skills for a lot of classes but how about assassin skills? we've already been nurfed to fuck & even since you divided PvP & PvE skills you still havent done fuck all about it - I dunno weather to take it as a good thing they havent done anything or a bad thing which means they may have another nurf planned - or do they secrety spectate in our PvP & laugh as we die horribly with skills they nurfed to fuck?

90% of classes got buffed - wheres ours???

62.56.54.9 21:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One thing to say, if you want to complain to Anet do it on GWW or email them about it. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * --EDIT-- And also quit whining about assassins and read on how much they haven't buffed ranger skills. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well yes, the skills that need to be made stronger are precisely the ones that don't get used, that is, the ones that are too weak to begin with. And if you're complaining about assassins, surely you've heard about Shadow Form now being so easy to make essentially permanent.  Quizzical 22:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Rangers have great builds right now, between burning arrow, magebane, etc, etc. Assassins have one or so "real builds" and the rest are very gimicy and rely on another class. Assassins are the class most in need of a buff at present. (From a PvP perspective) &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  22:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if we REALLY want to get into it. The whole class needs to be fixed. Broken mechanics... but that's another discussion not fit for here. --NYC Elite 03:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * From a PvE perspective, the class most in need of some buffing is Mesmer IMHO. Now that PvP and PvE can be balanced separately, it would be nice to make them more useful in PvE, knowing it won't make them totally gross in PvP in the process.  Beyond that -- yeah, a lot of professions seem to have one good build and then a bunch of stuff that just isn't so good and really needs to be balanced.  Beastmaster rangers, smiting monks, and such.  There's all kind of potential builds based on skill-lines that have really never been properly balanced, simply ignored because the same profession had some other option they could go with instead that was balanced.  It would be nice to see all the lines brought into balance.  --68.187.144.97 05:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG THANK YOU!!! PvE Mesmers are virtually dead since the very release of the first campaign of GW... :( Now THAT needs a buff... PvP assassins, even though tough to make, are still pretty damn annoying if you get one on a caster's ass... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we need to make a little distinction here. Skill lines for PvE player mesmers need a buff. Hero Mesmers are decent. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  06:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Norgu is probably my second most heavily used hero (behind Razah). Consider a Mesmer Hero  The illusion attribute could use a buff, though.  Quizzical 06:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Mesmers have enough versaitility in PvE to be fun and effective. Fast Casting Nukes gets you through most of the game, Inept spam gets you through melee heavy areas and you can go into domination for general harrassment and use Wastrel's Worry to explode bosses. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  06:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, but what we need is a serious buff. Something broken that'll get nerfed shortly afterwards. Something in particular that heroes can't pull off. Mesmers are great, the problem is convincing parties that they are, if we could get a flavour of the month that temporarily brought them into the spotlight (for PvE only) then maybe more groups would understand that they can be great support. Of course, the same can be said about assassins, but there are already enough gimmicky assassin builds that what pve sins really need are some minor buffs across the board to underused skills to allow more variety in builds. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  10:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (For an example of what I suggest mesmer needs to happen take a look at Searing Flames) <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  10:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I never had problems with my PvE mesmer.. illusion magic is good. [[Image:ShadyGuy.jpg]] 10:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

SAY NO TO "FOR GREAT JUSTICE" NERF! i can't believe they done that...

why nerf warior when a/d and r/d are crawling all over the place. ho yeah i know... just cause of some earthshaker builds... nah really. what a F*cking joke. GIMME back my F.G.J. 81.57.191.2 00:21, 15 June 2008 (UTC) Le Techno viking.
 * "For Great Justice!" wasn't exactly a nerf for all builds. If you didn't take skills like Enraging Charge, Lion's Comfort, Mokole Smash and Dragon Slash in PvP, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. Plus, "FGJ!" is doubled with Focused Anger and Infuriating Heat, and works with Battle Rage. There are positives and negatives to the change to "FGJ!" (although Dragon Slash was a big hit). -Mike 01:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's quite obvious which class needs a buff. Mesmers in pve it aint, i take my Me hero all over the place for dom magic and boss destruction. Sins in pvp it aint, just take a look at wild strike. It used to be a normal skill, but now its a buffed up ridiculous fudge bomb that can uber off a chain through most any personal defense. its a load of crap, by singularly buffing wild strike, they ubered the entire sin class. with an unblockable lead attack sins can lay waste to any personal stance defenses, go to dual and go through a riposte warrior, leaving shield bash as just about the only personal defense for melee characters for their ridiculousness. IMO necros need a buff. I remember the day when you could have an unlimited minion army. I say they should at least double the limit on undead servants. I also think wars need buffs to key unused skills like warrior's cunning that cant compete with other professions counterparts, such as fox's promise and guiding hands. Paras also need a buff, anet has beaten them with a metal nerfbat since release until they are a bloody pulp. every update seems to smash them some more. rangers definately need a buff to make beast masters more viable, and smiters need an overhaul that basically changes every single one of their skills to make smiters an option to replace any other caster. imo any skill that can keep a target permanently blinded needs a nerf. (GW-Kiron 13:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC))
 * I agree with the paras and wars but I would love to see ANet to rebuff some Ranger skills. Paras are extremely useless most of the time. People at ANet don't know what to buff or nerf. They don't even know some business tactics like now since I know a lot of people have extra accounts for mules. Well maybe they should make it so you buy more storage space off of the Online store but they can't think of that. If they sat a couple of people from the game that have been playing either since beta or for 3 years they would get a lot of ideas how to make more money. Imo ANet is just losing it just like when it took an extra week for the Xunlai House Tournament to give everyone their tournament reward points. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 14:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just from a PvE perspective, I gotta disagree about the Paragon. I think it is a strong and useful profession.  I don't have a Paragon character, but Hayda and General Morgahn travel with me in most areas.  They are substituted out in specific missions/areas where the situation calls for it, but they are definitely two of my "regulars".  Shadowlance 02:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

unreported changes made in june 12th update?
I noticed that after the update of Jun 12th (or did anyone observe it earlier) some Destroyers now have a healing skill. I have seen Deeds using Troll Unguent and one of the warriors Healing Signet. Can anyone else confirm?--GW-Wesley 18:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I can now also confirm the addition of healing skills on other destroyers. Thoughts now have Ether Feast and the Hopes have both Life Siphon and Signet of Lost Souls. Reconfirmed the addition of Healing Signet to the warriors. Now got screenshots as proof.
 * shouln't some1 change the destryer pages then? Cause if u got proof, that seems pretty conclusif to me... Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 13:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've updated the ones I could confirm. [[Image:destroyers_using_healskills.jpg|200px]]--GW-Wesley 18:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Smart to see that. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 19:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Do they still have their nonsensical Inner Fire skill? Laaaaame.  <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  00:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Inner Fire is working since March 31st. Since they don't have monks, it makes sense that they get some self heals. They where too easy to kill, and you're supposed to be scared of them. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 01:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because or else you could just kill them with Soul Bind (Scourge Healing was quite fun btw :D) <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  06:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this supposed to somehow somewhat nerf the core farming? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hms, haven't noticed that they're more difficult now, filled 2 hero books recently (finished yesterday). --Birchwooda Treehug 11:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this sort of change is good. (because seriously, whole teams without self heals or monks) and they've done it well, the added skills won't phase a good group and for the average player it might make things slightly harder. It looks the sort of thing that raises the lowest quality of group that can take on destroyers without making it too painful for better groups. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  12:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In response to what Kali said, it has little to no effect on core farming, as the bug fix of inner fire nerfed the W/Rt Vengeful variation, and sliver armor takes them down too fast for them to even execute their self heal. <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  15:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)