Talk:Guild Wars 2/Archive1

Wiki Coverage
Im wondering if this actually ends up to be a game, will the wiki cover it? Hoax 16:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I bet it will, or it will at least have a GW2 sister project. Besides, who said that Guild Wiki was only for Guild Wars 1? Guild Wars 2 is still a Guild Wars game in my book. Alreajk 19:11, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I suppose you could use the official wiki, so we don't end up with 2 separate ones. 132.203.83.38 08:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

GW2 INFO!
GW2 INFO!

Default Guild Wars 2 Summary Hundreds of years later, in Tyria... sounds more of a race-reliant struggle.

Predominately open worlds, with Instancing as a secondary feature in some areas (not positive on the interpretation). Hundreds of people in the same area, and choices that the population as a whole change the quest structure. PCG gave an example of choosing to rally against a dragon or not. Those that help, gain loot and xp. If the dragon isnt driven away, another 'quest' may trigger, leaving more options for the population. Very cool idea IMO.

I'll just take the level cap stuff directly - "Events will also offer a way for players of different levels to keep interacting in the persistent world - which is crucial, since right now, ArenaNet is planning a very high [100-plus], or possibly no level cap"

Sidekicks simlar to CoH, allowing powers to seep from a high level character to a friendly lower level char.

'Click to move' will be abandonned in favor of a more freedom-rich control scheme, including 'jumping, swimming, and sliding'

destroyable environments?

no real world limitations to servers. you pick a 'world', but can switch between the realms.

World vs World combat sounds to be a massive scale capture the flag (AB style?) with no minimum or maximum party size. Big-ass raids that can supposedly take place for weeks on end. At the end, the 'world' will be reset, and it will start again it seems.

GvG will still be present, as a more balanced form where everyone is on a level playing field.

Companions: NPC like heros can join you (like a pet it sounds), and dont count towards your party. Not using this feature lets you be mroe powerful.

I think I read somewhere in here that it will be mission-based, but I didn't see it in my quick second-look.

As of now, there will be no monthly fees, and no 'campaigns'... mini-expansions, and expansions are hinted at.

If I think of something else, I will add it... or someone else can :P

Thorton 17:42, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Ew.–Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 17:58, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY HA--Nog64Talk [[Image:Yaaaay.JPG]] 18:02, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * So now we are getting WoW without monthly fees = more little kids and less content than in WoW? I don't have anything against WoW, but to me the ideas behind GW were superior. They are scrapping most of what I loved in this game. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:04, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Where are you getting this information from? The official site says that the earliest date any magazine with this info goes up for sale is March 23, in Romania. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 18:06, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Those are the dates when they are for sale on shops, but people with magazine orders get them earlier. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It's both on GWG and GWO forums. Magazines have gone out a few days in advance for subscribers. --Dirigible 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Straight from Gaile Gray: World PvP will allow you to play characters of any level, using the skills that you have in your possession at that particular time. Structured PvP (similar to today's GvG) will allow you to enter the game at maximum level with all skills. Yes, that's UAX. Roleplaying Characters will gain the opportunity to acquire higher levels. I believe that the magazine refers to a cap of 100 or more. This is an opportunity that players have been requesting over the last couple of years. I know that personally, I like the idea a lot. --Dirigible 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

HOLY ####! lvl 100+?! that takes ages, but it's cool :) InfestedHydralisk   18:26, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm, I think I need to know what benefits extra levels bring before having an opinion on this. If it's just a reflection of XP, no problem. But... More HP? More attribute points? That could be a problem, especially for PVErs taking part in PVP. However, in the past Anet has done a great job of creating a level playing field, I don't expect them to abandon that. I'm optimistic. — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 18:33, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yuck. GW2 is going the way of WoW.  The whole level cap issue depends on how long it takes to get to lvl 100+.  I guess if all the XP rewards are like factions ones on steriods then it might be ok, but I'm still not a fan of this.  The entire huge raids and World PvP sounds kind of cool, but other then that, bleh. Turk Nagona 18:58, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

So far GW2 sounds like a piece of #### version of WoW... lvl 100+? whats the point of that? I enjoy the fact guildwars is unique in so many ways, and now they are going to make it a piece of ####... disapointing...~Readem (Btw, if they just added more skills, items, professions, and a fe new features, I'd be plenty satisfied...)


 * Agreed. If I wanted grind and 100+ levels I'd be playing WoW or some other crap.  GW has died.  --[[image:Epinephrine.jpg]] ~ Epinephrine 20:30, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * However, apparently many have been asking for a higher level cap than 20. GvG sounds like it won't change very much at all. As long as they can maintain a game based more on skill and skill choices, then I think it will still maintain the challenge. Many of the problems people have with Guild Wars deals with the instances that are yours and yours alone. While it is nice, some people want to be able to meet others in the Wilderness. Also, shouldn't this talk be more about GW:EN? I know I'm guiltly of being offtopic, but Guild Wars 2 needs its own page now...I think... Trogam 21:04, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * World battles seems awesome, and apparently it "resets" after a designated amount of time, probably around a month. Also, with what little, if any, storyline there is for Eye of the North, you get to play as a Charr. Presumably, that means you're going to be north of the Great Wall a lot. The game lore says that the Rift from Tyria to the Gods is in the Tombs of Drascir, which is north of the Wall. Anyone think that the Old Ascalonian ruins of Rin, Drascir, etc. will play some sort of part in the game or be explained more in Eye of the North? Nhnowell 21:18, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

No level cap? or 100+??!??!?!? NO!!!! THEY HAVE RUINED GW! >.<, thats it. I'm hunting you down, Gaile! Caramel Ni 21:23, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Clicky here for a picture of grown-up Gwen. --Dirigible 21:24, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * She's hot. I would say that she couldn't possibly be Gwen, but hey, what other child did we meet in Prophecies? Oh yeah, the flute she always wants and the red iris flowers fit with the mesmer theme :)Beliefs Cloud Thoughts. 12:39, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

More pics please?


 * How can that possibly be Gwen? Gwen was no more than 9 or 10 in Pre.  It's only been a couple years or so since then, so she would be no more than 12-14 at most.
 * I don't see how she could be all grown up already. Kristy Dragonslayer 02:44, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Nightfall takes place 5 years after the Searing and 3 years after the end of the Prophecies and Factions campaigns, and they may advance the timeline further for Eye of the North. -- Gordon Ecker 03:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, Gwen will be considerably older, but my issue is this... her armour is reminiscent of a Mesmer's, while I'm fairly certain she had Monk skills in Pre. Call me crazy, but so far all storyline NPCs have been given armour that resembles certain features of their class, if not all. -- Elveh 07:10, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * What about when Gwen burns everything up durring the Beta Event.. Hello Ele


 * "When I grow up, I'm going to be a hero like my daddy. I'd like to be a warrior, but the mesmers' outfits are nicer, don't you think?" From the list of quotes Gwen says :) --24.250.248.144 08:12, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I'd completely forgotten about her quotes, but then, I've not paid attention to them since I last spent time in Pre, which was over a year ago. It still seems weird, though. :) -- Elveh 13:46, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, we might be able to jump in GW2, now wont that be exciting lol -- Xeon 22:52, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

IMHO, it all sounds like a dream coming true. Only my opinion though, so don't be in rush to bash it >< PvP chars at maximum level at start? That may means only more PvP chars will be created and played until PvE can reach the top. PvP and PvE pulled further apart? Quite possible. Personally, I've tried WoW only to find out that I hate it >< all this grinding drove me crazy in like 2 weeks. If GW2 is going to be (quest+mission, actually I hope for a NICE storyline)-based that should more or less enough to avoid heavy grinding. Old Freelancer game (single-player campaign), looks like a very good example to follow. And to say that I want to be able to run directly from Ascalon to Kamadan with a stop to rest in Kaineng... I'm gonna LOVE it =) fR0z3n.S0u1 02:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Getting to level 20 is a minor inconvenience. What is it... two or three days? I wouldn't mind seeing a slightly higher cap so that reaching max level is actually an accomplishment. Or maybe no level cap (just no more health or attributes past a certain point). As long as they keep it free of monthly fees, I'll make due with it.--Warwulf 03:40, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * About gwen, she might be 1 of the new hero's in guild wars:eyes of the north :)--Want2be 11:56, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Notice the acronym for Guild Wars: Eye of the North: GW:EN. I rest my case - Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 07:35, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

More Info
I guess people had better start writing articles for GW2 now. The name has been confirmed by PC Gamer, and the Beta is allegly going to start in 2008. Trogam 21:09, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Races
"Humans, Charr, Norns, Asurians and Sylvarians"

We know right now what Charr, Humans and Asuras are, but any ideas on what Norns and Sylvarians are? I'm guessing Norns might be Shiverpeak-like Dwarfs, but Sylvarians could be anything. I'm hoping for something Tengu-like. Concerned Citizen 23:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * As for Tengu-like, we already have Tengu. I cannot fathom what the Sylvarians will be like but I'm pretty sure every Sylvarian character will be named Something Legolas or Arwen Something :P Ishmaeel 00:06, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My personal guess is that the sylvarians are going to be some kind of elf or tree-creature lookalike. Mostly because of etymology of the name - "sylvarian" most likely comes from "sylvan", an adjective meaning "of the forest", although it can also refer to a wood spirit. Just my 2 cents. Phydeaux 04:42, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, it was an easy guess was it not? Lookie-look (Check the external link to Sylvari there) --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 06:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I remember reading from the article ANet are a bit tight lipped about races and stuff. Perhaps that means there are other races available that they haven't announced. So that could mean Tengu and maybe even Dwarves will be there. 132.203.83.38 08:06, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Level cap
After reading the summaries and the post of Gaile, I came to the conclusion that PvP will probably have a low level cap, something like lvl 20, to keep the battles easily balancable. PvE however will go up to 100 or even uncapped because players have wished for it. It seems that all levels will make your character tougher so that high level chars are incompatible with low level ones, otherwise they wouldn't need 'events that allow low and high level players to play together'. -- (talk) 03:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

That's pretty bad IMO, the level cap made Gw's unique. Solus  03:53, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea I agree, but I think they are trying to compete more directly with mmorpgs such as WoW and EQ2 with this game, so a lot of the things that made Guild Wars 1 unique will not be seen in the new game. I don't think the target audience is precisely the same as the first game, which means quite a few of us here won't be enjoying Guild War's future.  :-( :-( :-( --Wormy 04:25, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm personally in favor of a higher PvE level cap... it feels like the plotlines could have used a higher level cap. I mean, maybe up to level 40 or so, simply to allow more progression in character power as you move through the game. I wasn't a fan of "level 20, now start the real game" design of Factions, and to a lesser extend, Nightfall. Phydeaux 04:45, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Whilst I would like to see a level cap higher than 20 I am now glad there isn't, since I like to have one of each profession on my character selection screen. Having the low level cap of 20 helps to let people experiment with what other professions have to offer.  GuildWars is unique. Lets keep it that way. --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]]  06:50, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * For every game I've played, I always liked gaining levels. However, if this does happen, I hope that they come up with a level decreaser when entering PvP areas. I used to use my PvE characters, though I have a PvP slot at times and now I hope I will keep this new PvP slot. I am sure other players use PvE character for PvP as well.
 * Also, it makes going back to other campaigns way to easy. DoA with level 100 would be a joke as will the lesser areas. And how would this level cap affect GW2? Assuming our characters will still be accessible with the new full game. &mdash; Gares 11:24, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I thought that I read that the original guild wars characters would not be playable in GW2? Then again, I've been reading so much, it could've easilly been speculation one way or another - I can't recall now where I read it (one of Gaile's posts, or just something on a forum - no idea now).  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:32, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Gaile said that the new level cap is for GW2, not GWEN; and that characters aren't transferrable to GW2 but there will be a sort of reward for having had achievements in GW1. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   11:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm trying to contain my anger for the hours I've spent playing GW. :P If money and items aren't transferrable at least, look for me in Ascalon ID 1 the day before GW2 comes out. I will be giving out around 2000k and around 400 different greens :( &mdash; Gares 11:38, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I am a little out of touch with the new news regarding both GW:EN and GW2. GW2 seems to be set 100 years in the future. I doubt Gares will be much of a warrior at the age of around 125. :p &mdash; Gares 11:53, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Items and titles will be transfored, according to PC Gamer. Money has not yet been confirmed


 * Very simular to Fallout 2 rants about not being able to use same character in a game set ~75 years from the first. How fun is it to hunt rats with mini guns and plasma rifles on a 93 year old character =D. Im sure there will be a limit (lets say 100) to where level will acctualy have a function in the game mechanics above that might be purly visual effect, sort of title. Biz 14:17, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It's the usual reaction to putting aside something that you've invested a lot of time into. If you think, players have to do it all the time. I know I lost thousands of hours when I stopped playing on a NWN persistant world. It seems like this has been a fast run through the GW1 series, but I guess a recorded 3500+ hours is far from a fast run. :P &mdash; Gares 15:05, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

From what I've read from gaile's posts and people's summaries of fromt he magazine. There is two type of PvP. One where every llv fights any lvl with your PvE chars (so the lvl 100's will just take out everhting so non-lvl 100s will prolyl not bother). The other will be like the current PvP every1 is max lvl. The PvP is meant to be more like WoW (i have not played WoW) but its like massive unorganised teams on massive battle grounds which people come in and out of an last days (like real battles). And when the battle ends (after days of bloodshed) it get reset and teams are set evenlyish by the game, or something. Jupsto 16:23, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Un-equalized PvP (ab style) in other games where levels range from 20s to 120s have minimum level requirement to enter the battle, while higher levels do have certain advantages they do not exactly sweep the floor whit mid levels due to sheer number of opponents. Biz 16:32, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

I wonder what is the relation between lvl and the usefulness of skills? I hope they don't balance it like blizzard with their each profession/race is better than another. What I'm trying to say is that they will be most likely be focusing on balancing race/proffesions rather than balancing skills. I dislike this quite a bit.

What I'm really interested is how do they plan to get money?? I mean they made a perfect subscribe to play environment. They will lose money if they have no monthly fees because servers will need support, paying etc... Only way i see is to overpay for the starting package or earn rl money on game money or upgrades (latter seems more eligible. Like a 5lvl boost for only 2.99$). Sith 10:48, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Apparently they're doing fine money-wise atm, so why wouldn't they for GW2? Don't see your point. --&#91;riVen] 11:00, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm obviously they are abandoning the campaigns because they don't have enough ideas for one race. Seeing each chapter would have to add new places/storyline/professions for each race that would be even harder. Ok lets say they have expansions:

1. You make each expansion seperate but each has a requirement of earlier game and/or expansion(s). Next worst after monthly subscription. 2. You make each expansion separate and no requirements of later games... this would be best scenario but the income isn't good enough unless you make some pretty cool addition (level caps higher/new proffesions/new battle types/new skills...)

On the other hand seeing this an open environment where players will spend many (more) hours/days/months playing. I mean it just like leaving 1000 dollars on a road. Someone will get the idea to pick it up... Dunno if they can hold on their corporate money sucking demons away from GW forever. Sith 14:19, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * They said that they will release expansions to GW2, that should make them more money from the game. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:49, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm how will expansions be implemented? If each expansion requires all previous expansions thats about as same as the monthly fee. Maybe if each expansion only requires one previous expansion it would be tollerable. Dunno this smells fishy but only time will tell. And the wait will be long. Sith 08:33, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Expansions in GW2 most likly will unlock new content and requier just owning GW2. As it is now, you can buy GW2 once and play it untill Anet goes broke, but then u will be missing all the skills/heros/armoures/areas that didnt exist in original. Biz 08:39, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

I just noticed that no1 has mentioned this... what if lvl isnt really isnt that important. what if your power is determined by attributes that you no longer get per lvl stopping at 20.... sorta the same as GW1... the extra lvls are for show like those in GW1 that have around 5mill exp... they're no better then another lvl 20 with all attributes... in GW2 what if lvls above 20 or so just show how long you've been playing... attributes would cut off at 20 or are gained through certain quests and lvl is just like another title.


 * I began playing this game because of the level caps and the interface. I am dyslexic, and I suffer a condition similar to epilepsy (vertigo) which makes first person view impossible for me to play, and combined make me unable to play a game which uses keyboard control for movement...I must have mouse or joystick/gamepad like control.  Further, I have a real life, so I am not about to try investing 2 billion hours into playing a game, just so I can be competitive.  If GW2 takes either of these features, I will simply find a different game to play.
 * It's too bad...Guild Wars is great as it is, and here they are planning to simply make it a clone of WoW (which I wouldn't even play if it was completely free, irrelevant of my conditions).
 * The only people wanting higher levels are the ones who believe they will gain an advantage from playing 24/7 and/or macro/power-level up, so they can gank every low level they see, and that being the case, there's a thousand other games out there that they can go ruin...oh, my mistake, they already did. Higher levels doesn't mean power, it means that you will be facing higher opponents in both PvE and PvP...but the typical child that WoW and such games cater to, lacks the capacity to comprehend that concept.  Guild Wars is not one of these mindless grinders, and you have to actually think, react fast, manage/chain and use your skills effectively to be able to win in PvP here, because the opponent has everything at his disposal that you do.
 * GuildWars creates a challenge, and sets everyone on the fast track to a level playing field. Their customer support is second to none, and the rules are enforced, making it a great game for everyone, from the die-hard "I have no life" 24/7 player to the 60 hour a week working class breadwinner, from the 12 year old prodigial computer wiz to the 70 year old retiree trying to figure out how to install the game, appealing to men and women, and everyone anywhere North or South of the equator.  Racism is rare, and nobody is "Ub3r-L337".  To remove these is to destroy the game, plain and simple.  International districts allow for a meeting of the globe, while the segregated "worlds" allow for the culturally different styles of play we are accustomed to, while allowing the company to monitor and police gold farming, which is so destructive to game economies.
 * Considering that the Guild Wars team parted ways from Blizzard's WoW team to make Guild Wars the great game that it is today, I really wonder what they are thinking. New races to play?  New controls to learn?  Endless level grinding?  Add in open PvP, and it would quickly replace instanced PvE, then all the players will suddenly realize that they are merely playing any of the dozens of games out there with a new skin on it...and then go back to playing their other game, which they've already invested countless hours in leveling instead of starting anew.
 * The GW2 that is being promoted is a very bad idea, and I can say with a tremendous degree of certainty that it will fail miserably. It is one thing to make a game free, but completely another to try to capture the market of a paid subscription game.  The only people you will find playing are the noobs who stand around cussing and cybering in pre-searing/tutorial towns, and the children who are having a tough time paying for WoW subscriptions.  GuildWars needs to take a serious look at thier marketing plan and statistics...then maybe fire the people who've claimed to collect the data.
 * I have already played this GW2...several times, and under several different names, yet here I am playing GW1...
 * How can you have played GW2? It's under development? And have faith in ANet, they already proved they could make awesome games. They are not about to change that, even if you have infinite levels, for all we know, it might be nothing more than a title :) Alaris 22:00, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's a metaphor, like "I saw this movie back when it was called Rocky". As for the controls, it's far too early to know the details of the control scheme. The removal of the "click to move" feature does not necessarily mean the end of mouse-based camera controls, and keys can be mapped to gamepad buttons, using a game pad for forward, backward, left and right movement and a mouse for camera controls and skill activation might work. Anyway, my point is that it's far too early to make positive or negative assumptions based on scraps of information. On the other hand, it's never too early to voice concerns on the forums. -- Gordon Ecker 22:45, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * OK ... I will admit up front that I have NO idea how they're actually going to do this ... but I had a pipe dream last night. Suppose - JUST SUPPOSE - that GW2 works EXACTLY like GW, in terms of attribute points and skill points, except that instead of getting a skillpoint every 15k XP after level 20, you actually gain a numeric level, with no attribute points, just a skill point.
 * What this would mean is that a level 9999+ character is still, mechanically, no better and no worse than a Level 20 character. However, the level 20 character still gets XP for killing Level 15 monsters, whereas the level 9999+ character can only get XP from questing, or from PvP slaughter of other level 9999+ characters.
 * In effect, therefore, skill points would be scarce - which would make Skill Hunter a difficult title to earn, would give every character a strong incentive to do quests and PvP battles, and would make things like Tomes, Skill quests, etc. MUCH more important than they are in GW.
 * I'm not saying it'll work that way, because how would I know? But that's the way I would do it. Auntmousie 05:05, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Playeble?
Just wondering, playeble stands here for just seeing them as foe's or you can actually BECOME one? InfestedHydralisk  11:04, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Playable race means a race that can be played. They will be introduced as NPC (non-playable) races is GW:EN, so they will get familiar... and in GW2, yes, yo will be able to play them. --Deadly Lollipop 11:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Cool, very cool :D InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 12:40, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

requirments?
if ther are any infos about the system requirements, please tell me <.< if you dont have info, what do you think? will the reqs increase dramatically or just a bit? will you be able to gw2 on a gw1-able pc?
 * Gaile previously had said that today's mid-range PC's would be able to run GW2 just fine. She said those that have higher-end machines would have extra eye candy but those would not be min or recommended reqs. She also said that DX10 would be supported but not req'd. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 11:13, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

ah thx :D and what is a todays's mid range PC? sorry, i dont know much about pcs <.< >.>
 * My Sempron 1.74, 768MB, 128MB Radeon 9550 is able (but struggles) to play Stalker (Dx9 Game released in 2 days on the 23d) witch would be something to expect from GW2 as well. I would just quess that mid range pc in a year will at least 1gig ram, 256 MB Dx9 card and 3Gig Intel or equivalent AMD cpu. Not dual core just yet. Biz 13:54, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

I always thought my PC sux, but it seems to be not that bad then :D Best way is probably to wait for Beta. 19:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Tradeskills, please?
Seriously, if we're gonna have a huge/no level cap, there's gonna be people who want to do something else for a while, and not PVP. This holds true in WoW too, the game GW2 keeps getting compared to. If there's one thing that I've noticed through the campaigns, finding that base equipment you want with the right mods is mostly based on luck, or even more rarely, hoping for a green drop, if there's a good one. Combined with an Auction House, this will buff quality PVE play through the roof. I mean, 90% of my salvaged materials just sit in my Storage, useless. Why not put it to good use? BarGamer 12:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just becouse GW is steping away from formula that put them on the map does not mean they will make it just like WoW, auction houses are useless to say the least, good/popular upgrades will be flying off your hands if you put reasonable price on them in a populated district. You have guild mates, allaince and even heros to upgrade, if none can use/whant what you keep in the storage then its not worth keeping in first place. Biz
 * I agree. I bet a-net does also so no worries. Jupsto [[image:Feck_Off.jpg|19px]] 16:24, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Norns & Sylvari?
Neither of these are a mob or a piece of art in any of the existing manuals? --198.254.16.201 15:26, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * That's why they're new.. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 15:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ive seen high res concept of Norn on http://community.guildwarshelp.com/ posted by one of the admins so there is concepts of them floating on the net =D Biz 16:22, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They'll be in GW:EN so not completely new by the time GW2 rolls around. 132.203.83.38 08:10, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

PC Gamer
I added the same link somebody put on the Eye of the north talk page. Not sure its 100% legal. Who ever scanned the magazine breached copyright, but we are just linking people to the site where somebody has hosted the images. Anyhow, mods you decide. Jupsto 11:37, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Good Idea or Bad Idea
Do you think this game is a good idea destined for greatness or a bad idea that will screw anet over?--68.192.188.142 18:10, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Great. Jupsto 07:30, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Its GREAT IDEA! How many times I was depressed over not being able to get higher level or jump off the ledge in the Bloodstone fen and finish the mission before its started, or swim in the tar -.- no... not the tar. Biz 08:12, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Smells Bad. Oh an biz if you like jumping and sliding go get yourself a platform game (there you even have double or even triple and quadruple jump and super fun happy slide)... I hate bliping jumping and sliding. Now GW will look like it is infested with rabbits... Same as WoW... sigh. Curse you WoW and blind ANet copycats. Maybe Anet could make a spell that instantly kills persons in 1000mile radius that jump or are jumping. Then it would be playable.Sith 08:39, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Destined for greatness. 132.203.83.38 16:18, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

It sounds horribly bad. Almost everything I liked about Gw will be gone :( 69.70.105.93 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Hard to say, but it's one thing for sure: NOT Guild Wars. To me, everything that made Guild Wars a fun and playable game is going away. Now, that doesn't mean at all that this wont' be a wonderful game with hundreds of thousands of satisfied players, just that *I* won't be one of them. Still, there's a lot of time left before this comes out, and nobody really knows how the new system will work. I doubt I'll be interested in the least, however. Why is it fun if you can level up 100 times, if nothing ever changes when you do? --Crazytreeboy 00:33, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * What are they adding? I'm not interested in swimming or climbing trees (You can't fight very well while climbing anyway). I don't want to play as a Charr (Race implies inherent physical statistics). And I REALLY, REALLY don't want to spend HUNDREDs of hours leveling up!
 * What are they taking away? I LOVED the hundreds of skills. Always being able to sit and ponder new ways to do things, looking forward to new additions and skill balances and imagining new build. Yes, I LOVED reading skill descriptions over jumping or climbing. I can climb a tree anytime I want, but I sure as hell can't throw lightning bolts. And furthermore, persistent worlds are not interesting to me at all. I really don't want to be forced to deal with all the fools you can encounter in GW.  When I enter an instance, I can control who I play with and around.  I just hope they can't ever touch my minimap.

I think it's a great idea. Everyone's all "oh no, they've ruined GW by copying WoW", but I don't think ANet is that stupid; they've always prided themselves on GW's uniqueness and pleasing its players and I seriously doubt they are going to abandon that with GW2. --Bonjela 03:15, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Games don't develope in a vacuum, and "someone else did it first" isn't a reason not to use a good idea (neither is "I already did it when I worked for a different company"). World of Warcraft had battlegrounds before Guild Wars, Guild Wars had arenas before World of Warcraft, Lineage had castle sieges before Ragnarok Online and Everquest had raids before World of Warcraft. Anet shouldn't try to turn Guild Wars 2 into World of Warcraft, but they shouldn't avoid everything even remotely related to World of Warcraft either. -- Gordon Ecker 03:47, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

#################################################################################
ATTENTION RETARDED CHILDREN / WIKI TROLLS

with no idea about game development processes
FACT 1 ) OH NO. THE FIRST GAME IN EXISTENCE COPIED REAL LIFE. LETS BAN IT NOW BOYCOTT IT FOR UNORIGINALITY. (retarded people) FACT 2 ) OH NO. WILL A SEQUEL TO A CHART TOPPING GAME BE SUCCESSFUL? OF COURSE NOT. WHO WANTS TO SEE                 SOMETHING BETTER THAN THE BEST? NOBODY. (morons) FACT 3 ) WHATEVER WILL HAPPEN TO OUR PRECIOUS GW 1 CHARACTERS? AFTER ALL I'M A CHILD AND SPEND THE ENTIRITY OF MY FREE TIME ON GUILD WARS! EVERY OTHER GAME PEOPLE HAVE PLAYED STILL REMAIN, AND ALL HARD WORK PUT INTO OTHER GAMES, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF THE SHOOTER GENRE, HAS ALWAYS PAID OFF AND REMAINED IN THE HANDS OF THOSE THAT PARTICIPATED!!! (sarcasm much, retards?) FACT 4 ) I DUNNO IF I WANT TO GET A BETTER COMP JUST TO PLAY A GAME. I WONDER WHAT CAUSED COMMODORE 64S TO GO OUT OF BUISNESS? AFTER ALL WHO WANTS TO UPGRADE TO KEEP UP WITH TECHNOLOGY? NOBODY (goddamn idiots) FACT 5 ) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. BUT WAI? DO I NOT HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH ON TEH INTERNETS? DO RETARDED CHILDREN WHO WARRANT THESE BRUTAL, TORMENTING PACKETS DOWNLOADED ON TO THEIR HARD DRIVES NOT QUALIFY? MAIS PORQUOIS? (Friggin bureaucrat carebears..) FACT 6 ) I AM CONCERNED ABOUT A GAME THAT IS TO BE RELEASED 2 YEARS FROM NOW. MY CONCERNS ARE AS FOLLOWS : THE COMPANY X, WELL KNOWN FOR ITS REACTION TO CUSTOMER DEMANDS, WILL NOT REACT TO MY DEMANDS 2 YEARS BEFORE THE GAME IS RELEASED. DESPITE THEIR CLAIMS TO TAKE IN ADVICE, I BELIEVE THEY ARE DEMON SPAWN WHO EAT CHILDREN AND DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE WANTS OF THE GW POPULACE. (realize your stupidity, yet?) FACT 7 ) I HATE LIFE AND AM LOOKING FOR AN OUTLET TO SPEW HATE. I AM TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL. MY OPINIONS MEAN THE WORLD. FACT 8 ) I DO PVE/PVP. THIS CLEARLY MEANS I AM THE BEST OF BOTH. I DO HALL OF HEROES WITH PICK UP GROUPS AND I ASK PEOPLE TO JOIN BASED ON THEIR RANK. MY GUILD IS RANK 700 SOMETHING BUT WE BEAT A RANK 300 GUILD A FEW TIMES, SO WE ARE THE PROEST EVER. (over 100% of you fit this description, which means you people suck at PvP, the elitist aspect of GW)

- OMIGAWA


 * Yes, no personal attacks. The United States Constitution's first amendment states pretty clearly that the government can't restrict free speech, and we're not the government. We can ban people for personal attacks, just like a movie theatre can kick people out for shouting spoilers or a restraunt can kick someone out for shouting obscenities. Our policy against personal attacks was created through concensus among the users, and can be amended or repealed through concensus among the users, if you have a problem with it, you can propose to amend or repeal the policy and try to persuade other users to support teh policy change just like anyone else. -- Gordon Ecker 21:34, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Second System Syndrome
Is anyone familiar with the term SSS? (you could also expand it as Spiteful Spirit on Software:) It's basically this: you develop a system, learn much in the process (by doing lots of mistakes, of course) and you leave out much of what you wanted to put in. Sometime later, you decide to create a new version of that system for some reason. Right before you start, you decide that the Second System will be bigger, better, and badder (ass-wise) from its predecessor. And that's when the SSS hits you.

It's an awful thing to behold. You over-engineer everything, you put in more of everything, you over-complicate everything and the resulting second system which looked so badass on paper is a humongous mess of bugs, complexity, rigidity and is dwarfed by the first system only in terms of usability and functionality.

Unbidden, it popped to my mind while reading through the gamer mag's article. Dunno vhy.--Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 18:39, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

I have hard time imagining how they will be struck down by "SSS" from reworking "same" (GW1) engine and adding few new features. Yes there will be few things to do and that have to be done right but yet again they have over a year to make it to beta and about half a year after that to make a partialy working game =D But I do see how SSS is working its wonders on most early (broken)windows releases =) and just why they need 10 service packs to work. Biz 02:17, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I hope they'll avoid it. Although it doesn't say over-engineering or second system syndrome, the May 2007 PC Gamer article makes it sound like the original Guild Wars was suffering from SSS (which is plausible, since ANet's founders have worked on other games before, and Guild Wars did have a longer than estimated developement time). The article also talks about how they'll trim down the profession count and make the GW2 professions more self-sufficient. -- Gordon Ecker 03:05, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Self sufficient definately seems like the way they are going with dropping heroes and only having one companion available to you at a time. I have to ask, however, where did you find that information? Oh and I highly doubt ANet will fall into that hole, they're professionals right? ;) 132.203.83.38 09:03, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The implied SSS is on page 24, where they're talking about battling against complexity, and how all the standalone campaigns were making making Guild Wars convoluted from a design perspective. Honestly, it sounds like the SSS was relatively mild, with the potential to get worse with more campaigns. Page 34 says that the professions and content will be designed to work with solo play, but will be able to scale up for parties. -- Gordon Ecker 21:12, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Disappointing.
Complete disappointment. Series started out great, PvP-oriented, easy to get into the action. However with each new chapter the game has become more PvE-based. From what anet has said about GW:2 and even GW:EN the gameplay is even more pve-based. Since the release of the first chapter they've added what, one more kind of PvP? Rolling Arenas. The playerbase is becoming even more polluted with children who have no job and can't afford WoW, so instead turn to Guild Wars for PvE. Velouria 18:47, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Uhh... Alliance Battles? Aspenwood? Jade Quarry? 132.203.83.38 18:50, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My bad. I was so blown-away by those great, skill-based PvP systems that I forgot to even mention them. Velouria 18:53, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * HA, GvG, TA, RA, HB, AB etc etc etc InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 18:54, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the simply wonderful input. You're obviously the king of selective reading

I hope they don't add any more RaO, dervishes, searing flames, assassins etc in future releases... &mdash; Skuld 18:58, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * LOL SKULD WHY U BAN M3 GEEK WIKI!>?


 * I want Charr BoA Assassins :D InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 19:00, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I know that people want more PvP oriented serious players, but you gotta realize that some people, like me for example, play this game not so very often, and for not-so-serious fun. I don't do PvP, and I don't interfere in people's guilds when they do PvP. So, the PvE part is actually the only thing I do, and as much as everyone (I've talked to) likes to yell at me, I don't care. PvE IS a reason to play a RPG game - and since GW is far less MMO then other games (instancing of Explorable areas, 8 party limit in most parts) I think that this game is just as PvE oriented as it is PvP (if not more so). So, in all frankness, I wouldn't mind seeing GW2 with richer PvE elements, and more in-depth story and quests. That doesn't mean I dont want to see PvP expanded. So next time you want to tell me how this game is becoming "polluted with children who have no job and can't afford WoW" - consider this: Maybe its suppose to be that way. This isnt your game, and ANet does what they think is best for the public - and frankly, I'd like to see more PvE with more helpful people in PvE, and not your every-day "I'm too cool to help you n00b" jackasses. (no offence intended to anyone here). -Milcho 00:26, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Let me rephrase my earlier whining. It's not like I hate PvE-type games.  Hell, I've played RPGs for 10 years.  I just think this game started out with the main selling point being skill-based PvP.  Anet started with weakish PvE in Prophecies, but I still liked it.  However their forays into more 'in-depth' PvE in Factions and Nightfall have left a sour taste in my mouth.  Velouria 02:08, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

I agree...I don't want another WoW game. Level caps make things more skill based, not how long you play on that char for. With no level cap how are you supposed to try different professions? GW is already a great game, learn from Insomniac Games, if it aint broke, dont fix it! New races will be interesting, again, stepping into the WoW plane. I play aout 2 hours a day on my ele, and hes still not where I want him. Ive played for about a year now and have 3 other lv 20 almost done their campaigns. I hate it when my guildies or anyone says they are bored...try new profession, do PvP, or do PvE if you only do PvP. Its like they are 2 different games already. There is just so much to do, I cant even imagine no level cap and 4 new races and possibly new professions and more skills more builds, more missions, farming and more noobs.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   04:18, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * New race thing just makes me sadder. If I wanted that I would play (generic MMO).  I liked Guild Wars for what it was.  It just seems like they're pushing a ton of new stuff that nobody is really ready for in this new one.  Velouria 04:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Nearly every online game has playable humans. How many online games have playable hyena-goat-minotaurs, half-plants or giant dwarves? As for the Asuras, they sound a lot like Warcraft's goblins, but you can't really call that ripping off World of Warcraft because WoW doesn't even have playable goblins. -- Gordon Ecker 06:27, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Who the hell want to play with asuras? And WoW had gnomes which were somewhat like asurans. IMO Asurans are a crossbred of aliens and Dobi from HP. I really dislike the whole race addition. If the races are a bit different they will most likely have different skills. I mean they didn't make races so we can choose between different fur or skin color. And if each race doesn't have all proffesion (I mean I fail to see Charr as dervishes and paragons; Lol Charr dervish with a hood) it means they will most likely balance proffesions/races instead of skills which will ruin the concept. I mean some proffesions wont be able to kill of other proffesions.
 * That's exactly it; just the idea of any race being different (stat-wise) than another goes against Guild Wars' original aim for balanced PvP. Velouria 13:22, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Gaile gray confirmed that there will be no montly fees for Gw eye of the north and gw2

check gwonline.net on forums ;)


 * Thanks for clearing up what nobody asked about. Either wrong section or you're a dumbass.  Velouria 14:32, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * GW:NPA. Watch your tone. --Dirigible 15:47, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Look out! Bans!  Velouria 15:49, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

"Characters from the original Guild Wars campaign will not be migrated to play in Guild Wars 2."-Now whats the point in playing GW 1 then? Did I spend 746 hours for nothing? I mean why cant they be transfered? The new level cap will be like 100, 20 levels is nothing! Thats frickin bull!--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   15:58, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You spent 746 hours playing a game to have fun? Did you consider not buying guild wars because you had spent time on a different game before? Lord of all tyria 16:06, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Why would they be? It's a new game.  Try thinking before you complain.
 * Try considering how your comments will be interpreted by others before you post. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:13, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * lulz cupidioooo Velouria 16:42, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Silly people. :P 132.203.83.38 19:16, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Do you work for 746 hours to not get paid? Even though you do "have fun" on GW, its still work, farming, doing missions over and over to get to a place. Or think of it if you have a job, you can make it fun if you want to. Either way thats 746 hours that have the chance to be moved on. Im angered because I see the move as something so easy, its as if ANet is turning their backs on their players. I think a "time portal" quest could be an option where you unlock the gate of time or something which can bring your old chars unto the game, or atleast just for PvP.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime    20:00, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Difference of opinion I guess. I think if you're treating it like work you should play less. Velouria 20:47, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Wouldn't it be possible for anet to make it so that you are playing a decendant of your character who has the same stats(funny idea but may work)   (dsnesnintendo)


 * Character transfer probably can't be done due to the differences in professions and skills. As for geting a payoff in GW2 for your efforts in GW1 and playing the descendants of existing characters, it will be possible to get inheritance via the Hall of Monuments, and Gaile Grey has mentioned name reservations for players with GW1. -- Gordon Ecker 20:36, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Unlocking the old characters as hero would really pwn. Madjura


 * That would be cool. But if not they could do many other things with them. Maybe you could choose one of your GW1 characters to be one of your new character's companion. Or possible encounter "ghostly" versions of your old characters along the storyline (since they would be dead by then). Or maybe even just allow an account to make a custom miniature of one of their old characters lol. --SLeeVe 14:06, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Professions and skills make a big difference....hmmm didint know that. But I hope it isnt all final yet....isnt this thing due in 2-3 years? They still have lots of time. Im still hoping for more transferability. Why would they redue all of the skills and professions?--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   21:59, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Unless this info turns out to be massively wrong...wow. I just don't understand. Not only do I not want to play the game GW2 is sounding like, but no character transference kinda saps my will to keep playing GW as it is. What's the point in nurturing your characters when you'll have to throw them all in the trash a year or two from now? I love GW as it is, and I don't want to see this happen. Arshay Duskbrow 23:32, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It's Guild Wars 2. It's a new game, not a new campaign. I don't know what everyone seems to be basing their expectations on, but I'm not aware of any online games that allows you to transfer characters to their sequels. The Hall of Monuments, which we should have more information on before Eye of the North comes out, will allow you to carry over some achievements, and I believe this inheritance feature is unique to Guild Wars. -- Gordon Ecker 00:20, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Runescape was one of them. Id like to see something like that. Ive started a small petitiion too. Here. They certainly arent, "demands" Im sure Anet will pump out a great game yet again. But untill we get more information, the people who have signed it suggest a little more character incentive for playing previously.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   01:36, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Ok I cant post here anymore, my computer is censoring with ####, sorry guys again. Ill come back when I can turn it off. Terrible sorry.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime  01:45, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

It's a good thing I refrained from commenting on the first post of this section. LoL to Velouria. 132.203.83.38 08:34, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Gross. I definitely dont want a game like WoW. And not being able to transfer your GW1 characters or items over is a huge disappointment, especially to those of us who love to track down rare skins and items. If we could atleast still transfer our items over :-/ --SLeeVe 11:33, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

I agree with you SLeeVe, I don't want a WOW clone. If I wanted WOW, i'd ahve bought WOW. I honestly don't see why anet is doing this. Good PvP, AI Henchmen low level cap, bi-anuel expansions, instance-based play were all the unique inovation that put GW on the map. This game seems to be the exact oposite fo that. Dosn't logic dictate taht if you make a game that has the opposite of what made you money...you won't make money? Sure, GW ad some problems (ie bad chat and trade functions and no jumping) but this si something that could have easily be remidied in a new chapter or even expansion (I am actully looking fword to EOTN).--TheDrifter 21:38, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


 * And how exactly can jumping be easily fixed in a new chapter? You can't just add in a workable Z-axis with an expansion... MonsterAar 19:15, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Sorry I don't want to attack but how is jumping gonna improve anything? I mean everbody will be jumping like mad rabbits and the main reason will be cause "U stupid n3wb jump makes go faster" Sith 12:49, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * LOL.. i could definitally see someone saying that!

PvE Mesmers
PLEASE GIVE ME PVE MESMERS!!!! --Sig mA   11:34, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ye, give us PvE Mesmers (if Mesmers still exist)!- Leader Rat [[Image:Rat.jpg|19px]] 14:08, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Totally agreed. Atm Mesmers totally suck for PvE- Mine is stuck way back at Elona Reach. Improve them, or get rid of them altogether and have a awesomer class. Leeroythefeared 15:11, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * *rolls eyes* Mesmers don't "suck" for PvE. I easily completed all of Prophecies on my Mesmer with nothing but henchmen, before the ability to even order them to move. That includes all the missions and bonuses. Capcom 15:17, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, "Mesmers sux PvE" is just a stereotype. Even though I went through with Heroes and such, I actually found a lot of Prophecies to be much easier on a Mesmer than some other classes. The thing which keeps people saying Mesmers suz PvE is that they are used to simpler classes, such as Elementalist or Warrior, which don't require good reflexes, a lot of thinking and planning before battle, attentiveness to all the Hexes and Enchantments flying around, etc. Mesmer is a complicated class to play once you start, but once you are competent then they are as good as any other class for PvE. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:23, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Alright, I'll admit SOME parts of PvE are easy for Mesmers. Such as bosses (Wastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's WorryWastrel's Worry!). But...yeah they are tough to use and they don't deal a lot of direct damage. I know they're only meant to cause havoc, but it's slightly less fun...:(Leeroythefeared 19:26, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol, I've hardly ever used Wastrel's Worry. Capcom 10:42, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I know what you mean by "less fun". Mayhem and sadism should be reserved for enemies that can THINK and can be aggravated, it's just... pointless... against an AI --Gimmethegepgun 11:01, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Funny, the AI seems smarter than many players to me. Anyway, I don't get what's so fun about direct damage. Warriors and Elementalists are the most boring professions to play as for me. Capcom 11:20, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok, my mesmer is now at Droknar's Forge, and I'm a little happier with him now. But the thing is, there might have been a little too much pwnage! See, before I used Domination Magic. It worked, but it was expensive, and I ended up casting Backfire on something with 10 health. I'm doing much better now with an Illusion/Inspiration combo. So, my mistake, Mesmers DO rock in PvE. Almost to a fault! XD Leeroythefeared 10:24, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

The names of races sound familiar
Have GW just taken and slightly adapted names for the new races? Eg Asura from Asurans (Stargate), the Sylvari look naturey ranger type things and their names sound like the Sylvan Elves of Tokein. The Norn name rings a bell for me too, although i cant be sure of what...
 * Uhh... Trivia? Look around, so many things oon GW has some trivia. 'comes from blablabla' etc. No big deal. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 15:25, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well... the names are all references from one thing or another. Some are obvious, like Charr is just a slight adaption of  the word Char which is a reference to Fire, and Sylvari is a reference to the word Sylvan which means pertaining to the woods.  The others are references to mythology, Asura is a reference to Hindu Mythology and Norn is a reference to Norse Mythology.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 03:31, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just look up Asura or Norn on Wikipedia. The others are obvious.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 03:33, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

GW Vs. WoW
Who agrees that GW is going head to head and try to kick WoW off of the #1 MMORPG.Ummm... This kinda sounds like GW wants to compete with WoW's Famous PvE world. As a respectable player of both WoW and GW, WoW seemingly has the advantage with there wide variations of PvE areas and the abilities of exploration of the PvE WoW world. While GW has the hand of really balanced PvP, which I would guess would was the unique advantage of PvP format and Graphics. Sure, like the next GW player, I really wouldn't mind if we have a couple PvE upgrades (such as in depth PvE exploration, but not like WoW), of course... get rid of the joke called "Storage" and make it bigger. But a way bigger lvl. cap would just kill the GW PvP world (probably a lvl cap of 30 or 40 and PvP has to be change if you trying to intruduce, which made the game the way it is today.

Basically if GW has PvE>PvP, the game would be just like WoW and players of GW (i guess if you are reading this you are a devoted GW player) really would wan't another WoW in the world (as stated many times above). -No offence to people that really love the PvE part of GW and there wanting of more in depth construct of PvE oriented game (High lvl caps. and the ability the have that special in-depth exploration of PvE that goes with the beatiful graphics presented in the game.)(but is the high lvl. cap to show the grind of the player and "ranking" of the character, and i think thats why GW has in-game Titles are for?)
 * Either way, (if they keep up "We would never apply Monthly Fees to Guild Wars") I'll still play.

-EnterNameHere ~RIPRIP~


 * Not to fuel Anti WoW crusade but still ANet folks mentioned something like: (my interperation) We are making game whit no monthly fees not to beat WoW but to make a simple, enjoyable game. Biz 06:57, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Not another retarded GW vs WoW discussion. Did you even think out your argument? A PvE MMO does not equal WoW. EQ does not equal WoW. Lineage does not equal WoW. AO does not equal WoW. Camelot does not equal WoW. Just forget it. Sirocco 07:20, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * And a PvE vs PvP discussion! 2 flame wars for the price of one! /sigh -- Gordon Ecker 08:04, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * /lockthread imo. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 08:05, 27 March 2007


 * What about this? lvl 100+ for PVE but... lvl 20 for pvp.. when pve characters come to pvp.. their lvl gets temporarly drained to lvl 20. Balances everything out, solving EVERYONES problems :D


 * Uhh, wouldn't having PvP at lvl100 make more sense? Good theory though if there is no lvl cap, I suppose. Sirocco 16:39, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

I recently got the PC Gamer article and it was very clear to state that Arenanet WAS NOT trying to create a WoW clone, or a "World of Warcraft 2.0" as Arenanet called it. From what I've seen, Arenanet wants to create an alternative in the MMO Genre which they hope will draw fans. (Same as the original Guild Wars philosophy) Arenanet, in the article, seemed unaimously serious about it, but whether that's Corporate BS or not is yet to be seen. Alreajk 18:43, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree. The one thing that made me quit WoW was Burning Crusade. It offered little-to-no under-60 content, it broke the economy by screwing over everyone who needed Ore: Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing, Engineering, and Jewelrycrafting, and it was just more of the same, old, dungeon-farming/raid crap. I had FUN leveling up, and when I hit 60, I immediately made a new character. I'm glad Anet is wiser than that. BarGamer 16:00, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * ANet capitalizes on everyone who has issues with other MMO's by making an MMO that does not have these issues, and making sure everything is fun. Monthly fees - gone. Kill stealing and line-ups - gone. Broken economy - gone. Grinding - gone. New things to do with every campaign for everyone - yes! Even for the expansion (GW:EN), the content will be accessible to max level characters, which is just about everyone. GW2 adds in many requested features. People like the instances and missions, so that stays, but they also want the persistent areas, so that gets added in. Why the difference? WoW needs people to keep paying their monthly fees, so they need to be hooked, or at least, fearful of losing their hard-earned characters. It's still fun, but the real focus is on addiction. GW needs people to want to volunteer their cash to get access to more fun things to do. So they have to keep it focused on giving the customers what is actually fun in the end. So the focus is on "it's gonna be cool if"... Alaris 11:03, 27 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Gw2 is gonna kick WoW's a*s. - Chrisworld 01:28, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * VS LOTR Online VS Starcraft 2 VS Warhammer VS... God, it's good to be a gamer. It's like a buffet! BarGamer 23:18, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

What of skills?
Will skills remain in a neat 8 skill in a bar as they are now or will they expand to something enormous, that consumes most of the screen? Also what way are they connected to lvl increase and finally will some skills be restricted to PvE or PvP only. Sith 14:15, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Dont think they will make it "wow style". So the 8(9) skills will be most likly it. Maybe you can replace skills in some areas whit out having to go to a town, like inside a friendly camp, where you cant missuse the skills or gain unfair adwantage from it. But there is likly to be major limitations. Biz 15:05, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

But what was all that talk about GvG like match that has all skills? I mean don't get me wrong I would like to expand skillbar by one-two places but not by a thousand. Sith 10:31, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * In the articles they mentioned that pvp characters will be max level and have all skills (unlocked/available) not that they will be able to use all skills at once. Biz 07:31, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Why new playable races, not extant ones?
I just don't understand what Anet is thinking. Why introduce new races when there are plenty of races already extant in Guild Wars that would be far more interesting to play. Tengu? Centaurs? Djinni? Dwarves? Redeemed Margonites? And most of all, the Forgotten? Who wouldn't love to play a Forgotten character? Heck, even remnants of the Mursaat or Seers...instead we get the generic-small-cute-race, the generic-muscular-rough n' tough-race, the generic-arboreal-elflike-race, and Charr, which is the only extant Guild Wars race of the lot. I hope Anet will reconsider these cookie-cutter races and instead draw from the far more interesting peoples already existing in Guild Wars lore. Arshay Duskbrow 17:46, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My advice is to wait before jumping to conclusions... Notice that the PCGamer article specifically mentions that there may be more races than this, and that ANet was refusing to give their exact number. You never know, we might get to play as Devourers after all. --Dirigible 17:54, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Forgotten are next to extinction. Margonites should be considered an elite race like Mursaat. Djinn don't really qualify as a race that could be playable. Besides there are other races unannounced. Maybe the 3 new ones were released to judge people's reactions to them, and of course the Charr are an old favourite. Also those 4 races are supposed to be featured prominently in GW:EN, not everything is about GW2. Sirocco 19:30, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Forgotten were next to extinction, dialogue in Throne of Secrets indicates that they should make it. Still, they are the declining elder race of Guild Wars, and, with the exception of elves, declining elder races generally aren't playable in RPGs. Anatomical problems would also get in the way of playable Centaurs, Djinn and Forgotten. -- Gordon Ecker 20:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Maybe you can have a Centaur "companion". You can ride him into battle! I don't think they'd agree with the idea though. Sirocco 20:42, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * You guys seem to be forgetting Zhed Shadowhoof, who never let any "anatomical problems" slow him down. Arshay Duskbrow 21:46, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The reason you can't play as Tengu is because they are so ridiculously overpowered in all parts of PvE. They totally pwn henchmen just about everywhere. Why did ANet make L19 Tengu in places where Hench are only L15? Cuz they're leet, that's why. Not fit for humans to play as, hmmph. And don't forget the damnable Tengu Seer, with Cry of Frustration and Conjure Phantasm in Kryta! Brr... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Because he only has 3 armor sets. If they add Centaurs as a playable race, they'll need separate lower body armor art for every profession, and Forgotten would need separate armor art for everything except the head and arms. As for Tengu, they're humanoid enough to work. -- Gordon Ecker 22:17, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Couldn't they just wear Arcanist Wrappings, Cursebearer Wrappings, Illusionist Wrappings, Losaru Bladehand Armor, etc...? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:19, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Talon is no more powerful than any other henchman. Also, just because they are powerful in GW has no bearing on how effective they'll be in another game. You don't have a strong argument. Sirocco 22:20, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I could see some kind of half-Djinn (sort of like D&D's Genasi) that get flaming wings and shiny skin, but are still fleshy creatures, and hover close enough to the ground to trigger traps, as a playable race. -- Gordon Ecker 23:55, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

(Resetting indent) Gordon, your "making armor for different races would be too much trouble" doesn't hold water, because Anet is already giving themselves that trouble with the introduction of multiple races. Although we don't yet know if all professions will be open to all races and such, do you really think that a Human Warrior is going to have the same armor as a Norn Warrior, or a Charr Warrior, and so forth? They're already going to have to have multiple armors, so if they can do it for humanoids, they can do it just as easily for non-humanoids. Arshay Duskbrow 00:48, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * it's very possible that Anet will scrap the races thing all together. it would play havok with Edge of Extinction type skills, althou anet has been laying off those after prophecies. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:50, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Don't understand what ANet is thinking? I seem to recall reading an interview with some of the developers soon after Guild Wars was released, explaining their class choices. The core classes were what they felt were the basic archetypes for any RPG classes. Anyways, it seems to me that they are doing something similar with the races this time around.  You have all the basic archetypes, giving them plenty of room for expansion (Though I must admit both Charr and Norns seem fit mainly for Warriors...).  When I think of Tengu or Centaurs, for example, it seems like a grey area--they could be anything. --Emelend 11:59, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree the Norn look like a very physically imposing race. However the Charr have shown that they are not just brutes as the Norn currently appear. The charr came in every core profession. So they are indeed versatile, while looking like very fierce creatures who can probably rip you in half. Tengu are also very versatile, they were also able to be any core profession and ritualists in Factions as well. Sirocco 15:05, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * There's also Tengu assassins. Although the only Tengu elementalist is a boss. As for armor, they can make it "stretchy" like the armor in World of Warcraft or Neverwinter Nights. Making armor that fits both a human and a Charr doesn't require much more work than making armor that fits both a gnome and a Tauren. The hardest part would be bear-form Norns, which shouldn't take much more work than Charr, and could be avoided by giving bear-form Norns the same generic bear-form outfits. -- Gordon Ecker 16:37, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * @Sirocco, I was being sarcastic about the Tengu if you couldn't tell. Talon is a pathetic Henchman unfortunately. But enemy Tengu throughout PvE are the bane of PUGs and even organized groups, because of their often-huge numbers, well-balanced profession choices, good skillchoices, and unusually good AI. PvE monsters may not have any bearing on future playable race strengths, that's true, but then again I think people would be very upset if Mantids were made a playable race and they pwn'd everything. How well a monster fights in PvE should have some relation on how comparatively strong they are when playable by humans. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I think it's fairly obvious I couldn't tell. ^_^ Sirocco 22:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * a though just occured, what if the races are the new secondary professions. a charr warrior would have charr skills and warriors skills, charr attributes and warrior attributes, etc.. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:19, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't think that sounds like a good system. I think it will be more like the race skills will replace the primary attribute. The secondary profession thing is too good to scrap. Sirocco 07:43, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Half-breeds perhaps? "Greetings young Norn/Charr warrior"? Also charr sound more like firey warriors.


 * Hello Mr Half Asura-Charr, my you're looking hideous today! Sirocco 14:15, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I remember a discussion I was having on ogaming back when I contributed there, and someone suggested an idea which I think might work well. They said that humans would have access to a Primary and Secondary profession, and the new races would have access to a single profession and then a "racial" profession which offered its own set of attributes and skills.  The thread I am talking about started well before GW2, actually before Factions, but, I think it would be an interesting idea.  <font color="DodgerBlue">Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 15:35, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

More gear based?
Does anyone think this will be more gear based than GW? -- LightEcho


 * What kind of "gear" are you talking about - This? Or Gear like equipment? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Most likely gear as in equippable items. WoW has, I estimate from memory, some 20 equippable item slots, with hundreds of one use items that confer temporary benefits.  Indeed, they have as many of *those* types of items as we have skills!  Guild wars equipment was simple even compared to old games such as Diablo 1. Equipment statistics (Edit:)are simple, easily maxed, and would have a maximum of 4, often categorized effects. (Damage, prefix, inherent, suffix) --Crazytreeboy 20:45, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I hope they allow you to merge non-max upgrade components into max upgrade components of the same type, like you can do with gems in Diablo 2 or enhancements in City of Heroes. Another interesting option would be to give items a large number of upgrade slots, but make the individual upgrade bonuses smaller and non-variable, allowing more granularity (for example, a sword might have 5 prefix-equivalent slots, 5 suffix-equivalent slots and 5 inscription-equivalent slots, with each individual GW2 upgrade component counting as roughly one fifth of a max GW1 upgrade component, allowing more mixing and matching of bonuses and more variety in equipment, while making perfect equipment easier to obtain). -- Gordon Ecker 21:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * If I understand you correctly you want to have upgrades divided in two 5 slots each, so to get 5 energy sword you would need 5x 1 energy insignias ? =D that is surly an improvement over simple system we have now. Merging sounds fun not only will it dump the prices on max upgrades but also give everyone perfect weapons. Biz 01:06, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol. Max Defensive Fiery Dragon Sword of Defense and Tenguslaying ~ 15^90, health +6, energy +1, armor +1, armor vs. physical damage +2, damage vs. tengu +3%. Real fun to put in trade chat and sell, but its a nice concept. Nhnowell 14:36, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

I just had a very scary thought....
Female Charr. O___O;;;; Arshay Duskbrow 15:21, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ieuw hairy girls! --[[User:Sigm@|<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA

]] 15:23, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They really need to shave there legs >_> and everything else InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 15:50, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Meh, they probably won't look much different. You never know, there might already BE female charr- Anet just decided to keep the fact that they're female a secret. Heh heh, that's rather cruel, no? Leeroythefeared 15:14, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Does each Race have the 10 professions?
What is the deal on that? I know their will be different Races, but will each race have different professions? or will it just be humans that have professions? (Picturing a famale Charr as a monk!)
 * We don't even know if GW2 will have 10 professions. -- Gordon Ecker 00:18, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Think, there are at least 5 races now, all of them will need male and female models, if every race will have 10 professions then there will be 100 different models to make, for every profession there is around 10 different armour sets ^^ Im sure not every one in the art department apreaciate the idea of making 1000 armour sets whith 5 peaces each =D, Its possible but very unlikly... Biz 06:23, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * GW2 is a completely separate game, the current professions are not going to be carried over precisely. And who says every race will have two models? Norns and Sylvari could be female only, and Charr and Asura might be asexual males. Only humans are confirmed to have both sexes. :P Capcom 16:44, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * PC Gamer had a male Norn, but there's no proof that the other three are dimorphic. -- Gordon Ecker 19:57, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Im sure Norns had males and females in concept art ^^ Making each race its own profession and giving a bit of all around skills would make alot more sense.Biz 04:35, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Who knows? Maybe a female Charr could be the cutest kitty cat warrior you've ever seen, lol! <3 Sirocco 08:08, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, I didn't know there was an image of a male Norn. I only have the internet to go off of. T-T Capcom 20:42, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * He looks a bit like a Warhammer Dwarf. Like a slayer... but huge not small. Sirocco 15:04, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I for one wouldn't be surprized if they made armor sets in guildwars 2 non-profession specific. --SLeeVe 15:01, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I only just read that you can play as the Charr. Well, I'm sold! 82.7.123.76 15:06, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

To everyone complaining
GW2 may have a different fan base then GW, and some may not like the new ideas, but it does not mean that peopel wont be playing GW. Give GW 2 a chance and maybe you'll like it... or maybe you wont. If you dont, go back to GW 1! Thats my plan :D
 * I hope you realize that the GW1 servers will probably be closed down a few months after GW2 is out... Arshay Duskbrow 02:03, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It will not be down for a very long time after GW2 is realeased, less updates and fewer players maybe but servers will be there, this was confirmed by Gaile Biz 06:18, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * More doomsayers. Get your information right before posting something so obviously full of crap. Gaile said herself that GW will continue being supported by staff assigned from ANet. Sirocco 07:26, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * And of course, Gaile's word is infallible, correct? This isn't like other online games where older games continue to be profitable due to people continuing to pay subscription fees. You don't pay to play GW1, therefore it won't be generating much revenue (sales) after GW2 comes out. Am I full of crap? Maybe, but just be prepared for it to end sooner than you (and I) might like. Arshay Duskbrow 19:07, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * You don't need to pay subscription fees for the original Diablo or Warcraft II and they haven't taken down the servers for those. -- Gordon Ecker 21:43, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Everyone I know calls GW "Diablo 3" - but even with such a superior, free game as GW availale, they still play Diablo and Diablo 2. And according to the doomsayers here, it would have been FAR more likely, due to profitability potential, for Blizzard to shut down the Diablo servers when WoW came out to force players to move to their subscription game. They didn't, why would Anet? In fact, with the Hall of Relics, I firmly believe they will be ENCOURAGING more people to play GW even after the release of GW2 in order to reap the benefits for their GW2 characters. -Sunyavadin 17:43, 16 April 2007 (BST)


 * Ding Ding Ding! You are correct.
 * omg totally PWNED! XD Leeroythefeared 15:16, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

questions...
what about the regular guild wars (the first..um 3 or 4) are they still going to be supported (people playing them, tourney's, etc., and they still going with monthly fees w/ GW1?

Also about GW2, will there be monthly fees?

--69.236.90.44 01:00, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * - GW1 (never had monthly fees) servers will be running after GW2 is released, not sure if it will get updates as well but most likly "just what it was last year" kind of things, same way they do it now.
 * - GW2 will not have any monthly fees, you only buy the game key once to play it, to get access to new features you would have to pay for expansions, but its optional. Biz 01:15, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

8 skill system
http://www.gamona.de/pc/article/detail/id-english_interview_with_arena_net_187508/start-2.htm: gamona: Are you going to keep the "8 skill system" from Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2 or at least use a similar one? Arenat.net: The skill system used in Guild Wars gives us great possibilities to make our game exciting and tactically challenging in the long run. The limitation to eight skills at a time stresses the tactical component and makes it possible to discover and try out new stuff constantly, even for high level characters. For this reasons, we will definitely have a similar system in Guild Wars 2. Unfortunately, I can't give you any further details on this. But one thing is for sure: The basic mechanisms of the Guild Wars 8-skill-system will also be in Guild Wars 2.

should something of this be included in the gw2 page? 2007-04-05T04:54:37


 * There is no real information about how skill bar will look other then it will be simular to current so there is really not much to add. Biz 13:11, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

I vote L A M E
Is it just me, or are they completely destroying the originality of GWs...and turning it into a free WoW. Here are my Pro's and Con's of GW2: Pro's Con's I don't know about you guys, but GW2 does not look promising. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Black">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 00:02, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Possibly new content
 * A little bit more PVE balanced
 * New skills, Professions, ect.
 * Different Types of Characters (Not only human)
 * Ruining PVP balance! (No more needs tobe said...)
 * Swimming and jumping in GW= Lame and lower fps
 * LvL 100 cap!!! Ridiculous...
 * I want my Arena's!
 * Seemless loads= lower fps and I really don't give a damn about.
 * Skill system different supposedly (If its not broken, don't fix it!)
 * Lame new Species...WTF is a Norn... (Yes mythology, but we still can't even play Centaurs...)
 * Cross-over problems (Money, character, ect)
 * Ruining the originality of GW's in General...more simply stated: What makes it fun.
 * A cheap remake of WoW (Is it just me, or is GWs now trying to copy WoW and its "PVE magic"-This part makes me sick...
 * WTF is a Dungeon...(I don't play WoW for a reason Anet...)
 * I am a simple guy with simple needs... (All I want is an occasional update; events every so often; some more skills; basic updates for original new content but only every once in a great while; new armor styles (I am spoiled :D); and new camp every year or so. You don't have to make an entirely new game that is possibly worse than the first...


 * This is GWEN page, changes you are talking about is in GW2 =D.
 * Lets argument against your statements ^^


 * PvP Balance – It was already sed that GW2 PvP will be done with max levels, with everything unlocked and so on, It WILL be balanced, Unless for some reason some one decides to go against level 100 with a level 10. =P


 * Lower FPS ? – FPS mostly depend on your computer and “average” computer in two years will most likely not be what we are playing on today, not upgrading leaves you behind.


 * Cross-over ? It’s a separate New game there will be no crossover only few items can be passed along, not money or characters. It’s a good thing we can even transfer that.


 * Dungeon? … Now your back to GWEN again… Never been to Sorrow’s Furnace? That’s... a Dungeon.
 * - Biz 03:02, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This belongs on a forum, not the wiki. Or a userpage, if you really insist. &mdash;Aranth 06:09, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * "Possibly new content" Uh Hello? It's a new game of course there's new content. Pfft to lower DPS, get a new computer. Do you complain HL2 doesn't run on your old PC that ran HL no problems? Anyway, you're full of it, you don't know all the information so your post is junk Readem. Besides Wiki is not a forum and this is the GW:EN talk page. Sirocco 07:41, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You... might wanna move this to Guild Wars 2 or something, 'couse EotN is not a new game, and isn't going to ruin your PvP balance :P Besides, this game won't come out till 2009, so there's PLENTY of time for things to change. Don't rant too much now. Rant about things you don't like when you play the Beta. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Readem, get your facts straight. ANet announced like ten times that if they make the lvl cap 100, they will make it so that xp will be 5x faster to get.  Also, why are you complaining about races?  At least ArenaNet is origional about races, unlike, WoW, who uses races EVERYONE knows about.  Also, WoW didn't invent races.  Swimming and jumping is AN EXCELLENT addition.  I think you should die if hate jumping, swimming, or spam.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY GW2 IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.  MOST OF US DO WANT IT AND YOU CAN JUST KEEP PLAYING GW1, WE DON'T CARE. --Swift Thief 20:40, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Readem, I have to say, you are quite possibly one of the biggest fools of GW History. I'll put money on the possibility that you're one of those PvE scrubs who casually enters some lame ass GvG team or PUG Ha group with a snowball's chance in hell of winning, and claim yourself to be uber pvp pro. You really don't know dick all about game balance, and your opinions have absolutely no weight. Your questions are not valid, for your reasoning is nonexistent. You're retarded. :) -Omigawa

For both of you guys, read GW:NPA. I am allowed to express my opinion openly, especially since I give my reasons. Please understand, that FPS, is affected by content (Swimming/Jumping is going to affect it believe me or not). I said that the new race feature was a "Pro" (Meaning a good thing). I would rather have a game that is not laggy, then a game that doesn't move. I am not going to purchase a new computer, for quite frankly, I work for my money and its not "easily obtained". So rather call me an ignorant noob, learn a little about life. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 19:40, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So you're saying a jumping animation is going to affect performance more than, say, a casting animation? And a swimming animation is somehow magically slower than a walking/running animation? Right. Also, does not "learn a little about life" count as a personal attack? &mdash;Aranth 19:45, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Jumping, there is no doubt in my mind. Swimming, most likely unless it is poorly done. "Learn about life" means, instead of insulting me, get your facts so you don't sound ridiculous. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 19:47, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm just saying, if you don't like GW2, just stick with GW1, which already has a whole lot of content. Also, they haven't released even a quarter of the information on GW2.  I doubt anything will be similar to WoW or any other MMO's. Swift Thief 21:01, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

If Guild Wars takes a direction to adopt more PvE..
....Think about if Guild Wars allowed for more PvE content, but maintained a strong, balanced, and incomprehensibly diverse PvP system like it does now.

I don't see why people are complaining that "Guild Wars 2 may become a WoW clone". I mean, WoW's PvP is attached with a paperclip - the only thing it excels at is setting.

If PvE were to be expanded in Guild Wars 2, it would be everything that WoW does right minus endless raid grinds plus casual gameplay(PvE), and everything that Guild Wars does right (PvP).

Whats there to complain about?

GrammarNazi 15:25, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

shawmen
hope theres shammeans in this game Velouria 05:58, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

hm? what is this shawmens you speak of? xD---iur 58, 6 April 2007 (CDT)


 * A sackless nar? What a dilemma!  xD   Man toast 06:01, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

I think he means Shaman.. &mdash;<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA   06:07, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Pc GamePlay
Rough (personal) translation of the (dutch) mag I have a subscription for:

Article
Guild Wars 2 will be the first sequel for Guild Wars. The game, expected in 2009, will take the best elements from Guild Wars and add a persistent world like we've seen in other MMORPG's. Guild Wars 2 will also make use of a new 3D-engine which should garantee amazing graphics. We had to know more, so we put James Phinney, the lead designer of Guild Wars 2, on our Dwarven Grill. This is what we found out.

Return to Tyria

Guild Wars 2 takes place in Tyria and offers the gamer the opportunity to return to Ascalon, Kryta etc, but hundred of years after the last 3 Guild Wars campaigns. Tyria is threatened by a new Evil, which by the way will be introduced in Eye of the North, so the need for Heroes whi won't mind hundreds of life threatening quests, is high. You start your game creating your character. Guild Wars 2 offers several races from which you can choose such as the Humans, Charr, Norn, Asura and Sylvari. Each race has a new look and unique Racial Abilities. The Norn decendants are able to shapeshift to a big and imposing bear which can take and deal a lot of damage. The point of the Racial Abilities is that, as a gamer, you can feel an actual difference playing the different races. James Phinney also said that the Racial Abilities will be equal in power. A Human Warrior and a Norn Warrior will be equally strong. Besides that, you'll be able to pick a Profession, but what those are exactly, is a secret as of yet. What we did find out, is that it isn't the idea to completely change the Guild Wars formula. The known Professions will return in one form or another, but in a smaller number that the current 10 Professions. They're also working on the skill system. Guild Wars 2 will offer less skills, but with bigger differences from one another. Two skills that do approximately the same thing won't be found anymore in Guild Wars 2.

MMORPG with a story

The strong point of Guild Wars when comparing it to other MMORPG's is that the story could, with an ingenious structure, tell a decent structure with great ingame cut-scenes. Like you're playing a singleplayer RPG. Which is why we were surprised to hear that Guild Wars 2 will add a persistent world to the Guild Wars-formula. Won't this ruin the typical Guild Wars way to tell a story? We asked James Phinney. James: "It won't. You shouldn't see this persistent world as a replacement for the Guild Wars-formula, it won't turn into World of Warcraft. That's not the deal. We retained all the good elements from Guild Wars, such as the instanced missions that tell the story, and have persistent areas alongside those, where you can run around with hundreds of other players. In Guild Wars, you were walking around in town, made a party of 8, and took off for an instanced area where there wouldn't be other players. This is over. In Guild Wars 2, you take off for an unknown area for quests, and will find other players in this area. With these players, you can make a party on the spot and do fulfill quests. We also added a new type of quest called an Event, to have players cooperate. I'll give you an example. Imagine, you're walking through an area and see a dragon heading for a village. People are screaming for help and you can see other players firing at the dragon and manning the ballista's in the village. You rush to help them (or don't, the choice is yours) and fire at the dragon as well (if you have ranged attacks), or man a ballista. If you manage to kill the dragon, the mayor comes out and awards all players that helped beat the dragon, depending on their share they had in the battle. So you don't have to shoot the dragon first to get part of the loot or experience, and you don't have to quickly make a party to split loot between those players. In Guild Wars 2, this all happens automatically and in a natural way. Now, imagine you aren't able to kill the dragon, but it takes off and out of frustration, destroys a bridge at the edge of town. Farmers come out of the village with horse and carriage filled with building materials, and head for the bridge. But, they are getting robbed by gangs of thieves that want the building materials. You and other players could join and stop this from happening as well. Events will often contain several missions linked together in some way, and will have different solutions depending on the result that you and other players attain. This formula is aimed to make players work together, much more so than in Guild Wars. On the other side, we'll change the instanced mission party size, which will tell much of the story, to be smaller. This will make you feel more involved with the story." Doesn't this sound interresting? And luckily for us the man wanted to tell us much more, that Dwarven Grill really was worth it.

Interview
PCGP: Why did you increase the Guild Wars level 20 cap?

James Phinney: A while ago, we had a big Guild Wars survey, and a very large group of Guild Wars 2 players has over 500 hours on the game, a surprisingly large group even has over 2000 hours on the game. If players are prepared to spend so much time in Guild Wars, it's our job to make that experience as intriguing and interresting as possible, that's why we massively increased the maximum level.

'''PCGP: You also changed the combat system. Could you tell us some more about that?'''

James Phinney: Sure. Look, we think we did a lot of things right in Guild Wars like working out the Professions and skills and the possible Profession combinations. But we should have made it easier for the beginning player, that's why we will make the skills more visual. For example, if you do a circular attack with an axe that strikes multiple opponents, you'll be able to see this way better from your opponents. This also goes for spells such as firing a fireball at your enemies. You'll simply be able to feel better which enemies are struch and how hard, so combat will become much more dynamic. And you'll be able to move better during combat and you'll even be able to jump, but Guild Wars 2 will definately not become a 3D-Action game. The strategical espects and calculating skills during a fight will be the biggest part of combat.

PCGP: Why did you replace the Heroes and Henchmen by Companions?

James Phinney: Well, heroes and henchmen were useful, but they kept taking a character slot. You used to have situations where players dumped others because they wanted to play with - for example - the hero Koss. The new Companion which we will introduce in Guild Wars 2, won't take a character slot and will be usable at all times. You'll also be able to instruct your companions, like heroes, to do certain things.

PCGP: Can we expect more than the known +30 health, 20/20 sundering or 10 furious as weapon upgrades this time?

James Phinney: Most definately. As the level cap was increased, we added a way larger offer of weapon upgrades. We'll also offer a lot of new types of weapon upgrades.

'''PCGP: The salvage system in Nightfall was a big improvement when compared to the previous campaigns. Can we expect this system to be in Guild Wars 2 as well?'''

James Phinney: Well, Guild Wars 2 will have a Crafting chapter of which Salvaging will be an important part. But the system will be different from Nightfall.

PCGP: Can you tell us some more about the 3D-engine?

James Phinney: The engine we use for Guild Wars 2 is a 3D-engine which is still lightly based on the Guild Wars-engine, but is rewritten completely to improve it. We added a much better 3D-display of the terrain, along with improved 3D-pathfinding and support for the most recent shaders and graphic effects. So you can expect next generation graphics for Guild Wars 2.

PCGP: What new things can we expect for PvP?

James Phinney: The PvP in guild Wars was pretty hardcore. We're going to make sure that players who aren't interrested in intense PvP Arena's or Guild vs Guild Battles, which will ofcourse be in the game again, will be able to play in World vs World PvP Battlefields just for fun. These are maps where groups of hundreds of players can fight eachother. You can almost compare them to RTS maps where you, as a player, can fulfill several roles. You can take over mining spots and defend them, so a caravan can bring rocks to your stronghold, which your catapults can fire at the enemy. You can attack the enemy's caravans to cut off their resources, become a scout to report enemy movement, station yourself in an outlook or take part into intense PvP action. The interresting part about this formula is that you can enter and exit it whenever you want, and you don't have to be maximum level to take part in them. We hope to do the casual PvP-player a favor with this.

PCGP: We have to ask, will there be Auction Houses in Guild Wars 2?

James Phinney (laughs): Well, I thought you'd ask that. We don't know if there will actually be Auction Houses in Guild Wars 2, but the Trade system will be changed completely so it will be a lot more pleasant and easy to promote your items for sale.

'''PCGP: Can you guarantee the "no monthly fees!" system for Guild Wars 2?'''

James Phinney: Absolutely, because this system works great. Look, we know we can make more money if we make players pay a monthly fee, but that's not our goal. We want to be able to keep paying our employees, keep investing in the Guild Wars-franchise and guarantee support and that's plenty for us. We want to confirm our position as "gamerfriendly" developer.

'''PCGP: Great! May I thank you for this interview?'''

James Phinney: You're welcome.

Expected release date: 2009

–Ichigo724 10:41, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Thanks Ichigo, hopefully I'll have a decent computer by then :) Tycn 22:32, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Warlock and herbalism
these must be in game to get my dollassss Velouria 19:09, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * So, you wanna be a goth and smoke pot in game? Is that what you're saying? Sirocco 22:25, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

hey shut up fuck up!! this guy has the best idea since evrqwesting 2!! ~!! Iur @111 22:25, 12 A roll 2007 (CDT)


 * Sirocco was right and I think Anet can afford not to sell single copy, being a second largest *ORPG =D . First of all Rt/Necro is allready what "Warlock" sepose to be, Old Norse: "varð-lokkur" - "caller of spirits" which is exactly what Rit do. =P Herbalism will never work for one reason: GW does NOT implemend consumable items into professions. Biz 03:30, 29 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree with Biz, potion-chugging isn't going to help GW balance. And I reckon the option of choosing 2 professions is better than the predetermined ones in other MMORPGs. Tycn 03:38, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Im confused
I am very confused about this eye of the north. ive heard lots about it and i cant realy add it up. So, we have new races just instead of humans, well thats great! But itll go against all the things you or i have faced in the guild wars campaigns. For instance, Charr, we happen to cross places all the time, and were enemies, so........ I wonder how they will react when they see a Charr killing a Charr, it might work out, like they may consider the Charr characters allies, or something. But what about the skills, professions, and armor. I seriously probaly wont to want to play a new race with no professions or skils, armor and stuff. and finally, whats the deference between the Guild Wars 2 and Eye of the North? i thought they both had a earthquake and the shiverpeaks, ascalon, and the magguuma i think. someone please tell me the difference.

Gw1 = prophecies, factions, nightfall. Gw = seperate game, coming out in a year or 2. Eye of the north is an expansion for Gw1 (need proph, factions or NF to run it) and will help tie the story of Gw1 and Gw2 together. Eye of the north is set a few years after nightfall and Gw2 is set 1-2 hundred years after nighfall (?) &mdash; Skuld 19:19, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

FYI, there are no new playable races in GW:EN. Only in GW2. Sirocco 19:30, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

So i will not need GW1 to play GW2? i have prophecies, factions, and nightfall now, so are you saying GW2 will have more races, but you cant take your characters to GW2 that were originally in GW1 and the player(s) in GW2 wil not be able to go to tyria for GWEN?


 * Guild Wars 2 is not an expansion of Guild Wars 1, its a completely new and standalone game and your characters is not transferable and you will not be able to take your Guild Wars 2 characters back to Guild Wars 1.
 * You will how ever get the option of leaving "heirloom" from your previous characters trough Hall of Monuments witch in itself is quite something. As GW2 is hundreds of years into the future and is set on same continent you could uncover your "ancestor's dungeon" where titles, weapons, minipets, armour and so forth were stored. -Biz 07:27, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Guild Wars 2, a good idea?
Allright, well i think it isnt a very good thing for them to make a stand alone GW game, but thats just me. I think it isnt very cool for your characters not to be able to travel from weerever GW2 takes place 2 tyria, elona, or cantha. And really it souns cool but it should be a game were its a new campagn on GW1 were you are on a deserted island and have 2 get 2 the mainland and a new part of the tyria, cantha, and elona continent unfolds. but you cant do any of the misions or visit tyria or anything but only play on that giant new place and still be able to have your friends and guildies. and when your longer in the game if ur species is not human then you can get a skill that helps you chanbe into human as long as your inj a town oe outpost or mission or arena. and when ur in a explorable area,........, you can change back into ur original species. thats how it should be like or something close 2 were you can go into the first 3 (and 4 ) campaigns. Plz comment on what u think about this, ty
 * Sorry, but I had real trouble reading that. RossMM 21:10, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ditto. But my response to what I did understand is: no. It's a new game. What you're asking is like a UT2003player duking it out with a UT1 player. Also: changing races? argh. >.> –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 21:13, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Spelling. Grammar. Punctuation. Sirocco 21:28, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * wutrutalkinabout –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 22:07, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I am seriously beginning to question the point of a new game...why Anet don't you just fill in half the blank spaces on Cantha's map O.o... shouldn't they finish what they started first...? Dunno, might just be me. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 22:21, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * i know it's a bad idea, they're tossing everything that makes gw fun in favor of GuildWoW2. species could be implemented with existing human-esq races, tengu and Forgotten come to mind, but instead they're opting for Asura, which is clearly a rip from FF11's caster class, and redesigning everything. i could get behind gw2 if it really was gw2, but not if it's "GuildWoW2: the Final Fantasy" --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:39, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * /Agree --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   23:04, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed as well. I hope they seriously rethink some of their proposals; a lot of them fly directly in the face of what Guild Wars is and what sets it apart (that is, makes it good). Arshay Duskbrow 02:20, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I feel bad for Anet, no one seems to support them anymore. Well... I like WoW and Final Fantasy so ill be getting the game if that's what it turns out to be, however, I doubt they're throwing out GW stuff. Get the magazine, read it all, don't judge on only some of the things they said. Alreajk 19:19, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm pretty sure Anet will make a verry good game, and i think it will be original in some ways, going to buy it and see what kind of game Anet made of it ^^
 * Totally hooked on GW campaigns, totally looking forward to GW:EN, and also can't wait for GW2. So far, everything design decision they made fit well with my gaming philosophy, and I am confident that they'll improve in that direction. Loyal to ANet, at least until they trip and fall. Alaris 15:08, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The main problems I have with WoW are the respec costs, spell pushback, the heavy late-game gear dependance, monthly fees and the fact that the professions aren't balanced with eachother in profitability and personal usefulness (for example enchanters can use and sell their enchantments, but can't use most engineering items, while a engineer can use both enchantments and their engineering items, but can't sell most of their engineering items to non-engineers). I haven't heard any rumours of these things being in Guild Wars 2 (except monthly fees, which was has been repeatedly debunked), so I'm not concerned. -- Gordon Ecker 21:11, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I get the very strong impression that GW has been built with 2 main objectives in mind: (1) make it fun, and feel free to borrow ideas from other games that were fun, improve on what was not so much fun, and fix what has proven to be broken, and (2) balance it so that every choice of profession (and race) is fun and competitive, with emphasis towards spending less time developing characters. This has proven very successful, and ANet has shown in the articles that they are committed to keeping true to these philosophies. Alaris 11:04, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Horrible idea-the fact i cant take my chars i spent COUNTLESS hours on is the main reason why I'll never buy this game. Also i don't believe these changes were to improve o the aspect of the game, it's just arena net selling their image to try to compete with WoW and btw arena net-I'd fire you're development team who came up with this because 30 million WoW players will not leave a game they spent countless hours on to play a mimmicer--Zyc 15:35, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You're allowed to have your own opinions. But from what I hear, I'd say you are expressing prejudice, i.e. ""an adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts". I'm looking forward to GW2, and I am glad that they are following the direction that they have, because even though I wouldn't necessarily move to WoW, there are aspects of MMO's that I enjoy that I wish they'd include in GW. And it looks like they are doing this, but without sacrifying what made GW so good in the first place. Alaris 19:17, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * the thing that had originally made GW successful was the pvp aspect of it-the majority of players prefer the PvP over the PvE. what anet is doing is justscrewing all us pvpers out there of our arenas, our characters "oh yea theyre screwing to pve players out of those too". Basically what GW2 is, is the anet team showing their blizzard routes. And how dare you call me a predjudice-i do this comment with the information i have seen-and i don't like it. I'm not blindlessly making these comments.--Zyc 16:31, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
 * With the success of either ANet or Blizzard, I would think this is a compliment. Besides, all I read in interviews and forums, ANet changed GW1 into GW2 as a way to address player demand. Structured PvP stays, and so does instanced PvE. But additions are made that players have been asking for: (1) casual PvP, (2) persistent areas, (3) playable races, (4) Z-axis and freedom of movement, etc. It's no small wonder with that many changes that you'd lose your character, but unlike most games, you actually get to transfer some accomplishments via HoM. Unless you use arguments, as I have here, I'm still convinced that you're prejudiced. Alaris 18:38, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you cite any sources for your claim that PvP players are the majority? -- Gordon Ecker 19:49, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

Friends
In Guild Wars 2, will we be able to add it to our previous GW accounts even though their two seperate games? cause i was wonderin if we can have our friends on their and our chracters so we can have xunlai agents come and deliver profession werapons from tyria, elona, or cantha. i hope we can cause itll be lonley in GW with no friends and mak,in new account and all, anyways, plz answer this, and if i aint on wiki whisper me in game at Heros Warrior, Heros Dervish, or Heros Assassian, my most played ppl. anyway ty
 * 2 comments before I try to answer. (1) Please sign your posts using four tildes at the end of your post. (2) I have a hard time understanding what you are saying. If I answered incorrectly, then please clarify what you meant.
 * My hunch is that since there is a hall of monument letting you carry through some achievements from GW1 to GW2 through GW:EN, that would require almost by definition that these accounts be merged. However, you will not be able to transfer items from GW1 to GW2, except thgough the hall of monuments (which will only allow specific items to pass through to GW2, and even then probably limit those so that they are usable only on the same linked account).
 * Whether the friends list, guilds, etc are also passed through, at this point is too early to tell. My bet is that Character names and Guild names can be reserved (through the hall of monuments), and friends lists are relatively easy to redo on the player's side, relatively hard to keep track of on ANet's side. Alaris 15:31, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * thank, you, thats what i wanted, and i dont know how 2 sign, is it when u log in? nvm ill find out, ty agaiun
 * To sign, you need to log in, and then when you post, you add four ~ at the end of your post. Alaris 16:25, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Monthly Fees
Will GW2 have monthly fees? if so im not sure if i will get ot if it does. ~ Heros Warrior
 * It doesn't. Lord of all tyria 16:34, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That's right! NO MONTHLY FEES! Only at Uncle ANet's! Alaris 19:28, 28 May 2007 (CDT)


 * It depends on what you mean by that, you pay for certain amount of content that may or may not change in a period of time (6-12months). Then you will have choice either you will or will not pay and add more content. So the price is based on how much content you want, not how long you will be enjoying it =D. Lets say they release the GW2 then Expansions every 6 months, original may cost some like 40$ Expansions 30$ or lower, So cost of playing (while always buying expansions) will be 5-6$ a month. Biz 03:50, 29 May 2007 (CDT)


 * And paying fur internets in monthly fees!!!11 No, GW2 does not have monthly fees, no matter how you look at it. &mdash; Skuld 04:00, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, Biz, technically you're right, but that doesn't count as monthly fees. And that's the same for any game, you always have to pay for expansions, sequels, etc. But in most MMO's out there, you pay per month, regardless of whether you want new content, just so that you can keep playing. This is the difference with the Guild Wars model, any additional content is purely optional, and you don't have to pay to keep playing. Alaris 09:37, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Well you don't always have to pay for the internet. You can get free access in hotspots, or if you're lucky, a neighbor's open wireless network. ^_^ Sirocco 21:28, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

Font on this page?
Most of the font on this talk page has accidentally been changed to this annoying-hard-to-read-all caps. (not by me..eww) Its real hard on the eyes, so I tried to change it back, but I'm new to the wiki code and don't want to screw it up too badly. The font change also affected the tabs at the top of this page. Could some kind soul who knows what they are doing change it back to the wiki standard pretty please? --Mllepandora 00:51, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's fixed. It was due to an unclosed  tag in a signature. -- Gordon Ecker 01:11, 21 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Thank you so much. No more squinting to read the GW2 gossip! (haha) --Mllepandora 01:18, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

old versions of pvp
the pvp modes in this game sucks im sorry i like the more people thing but what made GW good was its pvp do you think we would still be able to play the pvp types we play now 71.163.53.122 11:12, 23 July 2007 (CDT)slicky nickx
 * Interpunction? You don't make it easy for us to figure out what you want to tell. --- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  13:40, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Will this be linked with your account?
Will GW2 be linked with your account like other campaigns? Or how you can get your GW1 account stuff into GW2 account from HoM? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.216.199.30 (contribs).
 * Probably, but I believe it's not yet known --- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  13:40, 24 July 2007 (CDT)