User talk:Auron of Neon

first
for eternities!! &mdash; Warw/Wick 02:01, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Because he totally didn't archive on Sept. 21 and there's been no time for anyone else to post first :P --Shadowcrest  20:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * :/ - Auron 04:51, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

:/
^ --Shadowcrest  06:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I hate you because you're always right
Header. (T/C) 06:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Have fun. Demote me when whenever kyle gets back. - Auron 07:24, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Dude, you guys are leaving me as the only Bcrat left? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * What prediction of Auron's would the header be referring to? --◄mendel► 18:04, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

You know what?
I defy you. I don't care if you're right. I don't care if promoting Mendel was a stupid idea. I don't care if it leads to the detriment of the Wiki. If we are going to crash, then I want to go out in style, doing things my way and following my heart. That may sound stupid and illogical to you, but that's too bad. If you want to QQ and rage from the wiki, then it's just that much more convenient for me, since it saves me the trouble of demoting you anyway.

You're one of the smartest and most logical people that I have ever met. More than anyone else in my life, you have been proven right countless time and time again. I still bow to your superiority in so many aspects, and I will forever treasure the lessons I have learned under your tutorship. You have been invaluable in, quite simply, teaching me to be a better person.

Nevertheless, the simple fact is that you are often abrasive, unnecessarily rude, and you continue to be a divider instead of a uniter for the Wiki community. Most of the users here do not like you; they respect you for your abilities, which is completely different. Of course, you're not here to make friends and could care less. "The truth hurts sometimes, doesn't it?" Yes, it does. But no matter how right you are, that does not give you a permanent excuse for being a dick just for the lolz. It's one thing to bash idiots on the Smiter's Boon talkpage; it's another to randomly pop on IRC and ask my sysops if they "usually suck each other off so much" (just to name one example). GuildWiki is not IRC, but that still affects the community here.

Thus, even though it matters not now, I'd like to tell you that I was going to remove you from Bureaucrat anyway. It was a mistake to promote you, I believe. The only truly bureaucratic actions that you have taken in your career was to promote R. Phalange, and that was also a mistake with resounding impacts on the wiki.

So...have fun, and enjoy yourself on GWW/GW2W/PvX. I'm sorry things had to end like this. (T/C) 19:04, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * For what its worth, I do not oppose Entropy's promotion of mendel, and if I felt GuildWiki need more sysops, I would probably end up being supportive of Mendel as a candidate. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * YAY ENTROPY IS BACK! &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 19:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm... very happy now. You've finally done it. Unfortunately, this wiki is already dead, and isn't going to get better. I just hope the things I've taught you will help you better serve GW2W. - Auron 23:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as I'm here, this wiki will never be dead. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Proclaiming a wiki dead when its content is still expanding is akin to calling you dead because one day you're going to die. --◄mendel► 00:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * To be fair, there are multiple definitions for "deadness" for a wiki. GuildWiki, and even GWW, can very well be already dead according to some definitions while alive in others. Disagreeing over whether an ambiguous adjective applies is relatively futile. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * For the nothing that my comment is worth I see no signs of death in this wiki while we still have the crazy antics of a long list of people of whom we all know. There will always be things to do here. Content will expand. Vandals will be vandals. GuildWikians will be GuildWikians. We'll find ways to breathe life into it if we so choose. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 00:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

lol - Auron 00:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I has a sad. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 00:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This wiki is actually dying tbh.. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 00:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah but I wanted to be poetic about it. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 00:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We're not dying, we're just... using up our life in order to empower future wikis.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  01:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, you are correct as usual, Auron. But, I choose to delay the inevitable rather than give up and call it quits. That's no fun. GW2W is a ghost wiki right now anyways; I'm not going anywhere near there till there's some real content worth overseeing. Actually, I may not bother to go at all; a year is a long time, and I am still uncertain about if I'll even play GW2W. If not, then there's no point me wasting my time on a wiki for it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Balistic Pve is pretty much running things over there now. I'd be quite happy to give you ownership of the wiki, Entropy, if you wanted. I'm terrible at managing things, especially time. :\. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 01:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ??? Unless Balistic Pve goes by a different name on GW2W, or this is some mysterious socked post, I have no idea what you are talking about. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * She's talking about GuildWiki2, the wikia version. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Lolsorry, Entrea's link linked to gw2wikia :P &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 01:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh...that. As far as I am concerned, GuildWiki 2 does not exist. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about gw2w either. Just in the two and a half years I've known wikis, I've seen a bunch of great editors come and go - I'm thinking we're going to lose more than we find before gw2w gets started. Like you, I don't know what I'll be doing in two years. I might be holed up in Afghanistan, doing tech work for the army. I might still be here in hawaii, doing music or whatever. GW2 might suck, at which point I would promote someone early and stop contributing. There are too many maybes on GW2W to make it worth any time or effort so far. I wish ANet hadn't created it this early tbh. - Auron 01:29, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We wish alike. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Death?
Dear Auron,

This wiki is not "dying." A "dead" wiki is not one with a dwindling userbase or even with no edits on a day-to-day basis, but one that has been abandoned before completion. We here at GuildWiki are working towards completion. We acknowledge that the day will come when there is no longer anything to add. We know that GuildWiki will last only as long as Guild Wars does. But this is not something to be delayed or avoided. This, ladies and gentlemen, is our ultimate goal! We want to create the most complete documentation of the game known as Guild Wars. We are all partners, working together to complete a project. Yes, people will inevitably grow weary and leave, but new users will come to pick up the slack! This is the beauty of the wiki format. People who have never met but share a vision can come together from across the world to work toward a common goal. I look forward to the day this wiki is finished. I want to stand back with all my friends and look at what we've created. This wiki is more than just the content of Guild Wars- it is a project that has united the hearts and minds of every person who has ever shared his time here. And that is something that cannot die. 01:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep telling yourself that. - Auron 01:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We will, tyvm. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:40, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Seconded in full. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 01:42, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What Auron said. (sorry guys) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wiki is dead. Its no secret :| &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 01:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree with a number of things Felix wrote, and from that aspect, I can be said to agree with Entropy/Auron. On the other hand, Felix did at least state one definition/metric on what it means for a wiki to be "dead".  Thus, even though I disagree with the definition and a number of other things Felix has written in that post, it is the post in the most constructive direction among everything written over the past 48 hours related to the topic/question of "GuildWiki is dead".  I encourage anyone who has anything else to say to also try to be constructive, there's not much point in a simple head count in who agrees/disagrees with whom on this particular matter.  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * /headcount I completely agree with you Felix. The point of a wiki is to document. Not to get the most users, the most activity from users, or the friendliest userbase. A dwindling userbase doesn't mean it's dying, it means it's growing more slowly. The wiki will only be dead when there are no more vandals to revert, no more information to add, no more touch-ups or stylistic changes to make, and no users left to contribute. Call it what you want, but for me, UNTIL THAT DAY, this wiki is alive as it's ever been.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 07:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The Dream Will Never Die, kthx. Don't mind me playing devil's advocate, but you come off sounding like you are in denial. As long as there is "something" left to do, the wiki isn't "dead". Yet this is a rather nebulous goal, and in fact you can infinitely find things to do such that there is still something to do. It's a self perpetuating cycle.
 * Also, wb Marco. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I really don't care if you think I'm in denial or whatever. I choose to see the glass half-full, and I'm really do feel bad for you if you actually have a PROBLEM with optimism. Also, wtb definition for wb--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 07:32, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Welcome Back. I have a problem with blind optimism unless it is acknowledged as such (e.g. myself) :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah thank you. My wiki-drama senses were tingling. And that's just my viewpoint. Take it or leave it, I don't really think that what we've created here over the years could possible "die."--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 07:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Look through some wikis listed at Languages to find out what actual dead wikis look like (especially some Wikia wikis). And don't feed the trolls. --◄mendel► 08:10, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. This is a dead wiki for a dead game.  GuildWiki/Guild Wars may not be as alive as they once were, but they are far from dead.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's an empty wiki RC for a game that failed and never had a userbase to begin with. They don't begin to compare. Our RC is about the same, however, in terms of meaningful edits. - Auron 14:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * For curiosity sake, what is/was Fury supposed to be, and why did it fail? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:24, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fury was supposed to be the ultimate PvP MMO, with the main feature being out-of-the-box UAX (abilities, armor, weapons, absolutely everything unlocked). This led to a huge section of the GW PvP community highly anticipating it, so it was dubbed the "Guild Wars killer".  It failed for a number of reasons, including technical issues, but the main thing seems to be that their UAX backfired - no unlocking meant absolutely no sense of progression, and the huge learning curve required to figure out the vast pool of abilities turned away a lot of potential players.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So? That just reinforces my point that it's a dead game - dead on arrival, true, but that's still dead.  And bringing Felix's points back up, how would you expect us to have a high number of "meaningful edits" when we've already documented 99% of the game?  There's a difference between a wiki being inactive because there's very little new content that can be added, and a wiki being dead when there's still content that should be added.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:46, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * For practical purposes, inactivity is equivalent to death. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * *sigh* Depending on your definition of "dead", I suppose. Auron's absurdly high standards apparently require 100+ "meaningful" mainspace edits per day in order to not be dead.  Most of the rest of us, including myself and Felix, won't consider the wiki to be dead until the last admin leaves and locks the door(/database) behind them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that none of us have the ability to lock the database anyway, it's a moot point. Also I'd like to think that something like ten meaningful edits per day is nice. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:15, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

This whole argument is silly. It would take most people quite a while to find ANYTHING in Guild Wars that ISN'T in this wiki. Eventually, there won't be /any/ meaningful information to be added... Simply expand and clarify as much as you can, if you enjoy doing so, if not... Don't? But don't complain about it. 199.107.200.110 05:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * PvP. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Resignation
I have formed a theory of what your goal was as Bureaucrat, and why you resigned; I am posting this here because I'd like to know how far off the mark (or not) I am.

I think you wanted to promote no-nonsense wiki-editing. In a reply on the RfB page you criticise spamming RC with bullshit best left to instant messaging programs. I think you promoted Pling/brains12/R.Phalange to try and curb that and get the wiki back from being about the users to being about the game again (overexaggerated).

My impression of you is that you are an "ideas man", relying on others to actually implement the suggestion/plan. If I recall that right, it went that way with the builds wipe/PvX (but I may be mistaken), and I do recall that it worked that way with protecting Izzy's talkpage over on GWW.

The only support you had on GW was Pling; Gem and Ereanor might've supported you, but they were too inactive; DE worked on policies some, as did JR, but not much came of it.

You saw the promotion of me, my ideals being quite different from yours, or, as you would probably say it, me not getting the wiki, as a sign that your drive to "reform" the wiki had ultimately failed, and thus you resigned and proposed the death of a wiki that would no longer be able to attract wikidragons.

Is that about right? --◄mendel► 02:08, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You didn't mention me in that entire post, and therefore you are automatically wrong. Nice try, though. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That's because I have no idea if you did anything to support the cause mentioned, other than promoting Auron. And doing challenges and such. --◄mendel► 03:19, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The Challenges encouraged empty RC bullshit spam. o_O But, I never feed trolls and I don't read spam. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * When did I become important?[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 04:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * When you evolved into Che. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

You are mostly correct. My goal wasn't a "no-nonsense" wiki environment, it was a "less-nonsense-than-was-on-the-wiki-at-that-time" wiki environment. Back then, warwick's, ruricu's, and Razi's talk pages were getting spammed more than work was being done. I'm okay with a 50-50 ratio - you do some work, you do some talk. You do a lot of work, you are afforded a lot of talk. I wasn't okay with "you do no work, but you talk all day" as the standard for pretty much every single editor that was active. The rest is spot on - I had always wanted to be a sysop here, but I had never cared to be a bureaucrat. Entropy's promotion enabled me, as you stated, but it wasn't the cause of anything. Good work, mendel. Your studying paid off. - Auron 15:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for confirming. --◄mendel► 16:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you meant Ruricu? Even including his single archive, his talk page has far less activity than, say, Talk:Vanquisher. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 16:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Needs moar Hawaiian Islands. Anyway, if you didn't ever want the job Auron, don't offer to take it -_- [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not my style :p - Auron 05:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ^I had that on my page for almost a year, so I guess I take after you. :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:04, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Votes suck
I'm letting the next bureaucrat be decided with a, and then I'm going to pick someone else just for shits. (T/C) 23:43, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And for added kicks, promote me too! -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  00:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware that you'd been demoted, but I can arrange that. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * PLing for Bcrat! --◄mendel► 02:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yawn. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 02:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I just remembered that that is a "permanent" change so you'll have to request it formally. Sorry. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ehh .. ? I haven't been demoted. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  13:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you want to be? --◄mendel► 14:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "And for added kicks, promote me too!" implied that you wanted sysop. But you're already sysop so I'd have to demote you and then promote you again. I didn't understand that you were talking about bcrat. Mendel is faster than me, though his density far exceeds mine. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Bad joke is bad, I guess. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  20:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)