Talk:Moddok Crevice (mission)

If you skip the first cinematic, your party will not be separated.

Easier method of finishing..
I did this with my Hero/Hench team fairly easily. I parked the hench/hero's just out of range of The Hunger. Then I pulled The Hunger to them with a Flatbow. When it died, all the bowmen on the bridge pulled away and ran back to near the exit along with the General. I then reparked the hench/heroes @ the end of the bridge, and was able to pick of most of the bowmen with a Flatbow without aggro'ing them. When I was down to a couple left, the hench/hero's mopped up what was left. This way does take longer, but is far 'safer' than charging straight in, whilst being Precision Shot'd and Crossfire'd from above by a dozen bowmen. --P.hilling 09:19, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Why not charge them?
I ran full tilt into the bosses with my Warrior/Monk and Heroes/Henchies. (That is a good Warrior strat! lol) I killed the bosses quickly. No deaths in my party. Easy. I think it works because the archers on the top of the entrance cannot hit you if you battle near the entrance. If you back up into the chamber, it gets more tricky. --Dracon 13:30, 11 December 2006 (CST)

glitch, or am i just doing it wrong?
I cant seem to get more then 2/4 on the bonus. i avoid the first path, i sneak past the next group, sneak past the group after that and then kill the runners. did i do something wrong?
 * Rumor has it that this is glitched and 3/4 is the best possible. However, there are people running around already with Protector of Elona titles, so there must be some way around it. Dfscott 21:18, 30 October 2006 (CST)

I am only able to get 3/4 after repeated efforts. I seem to get runners and I also avoid the camps. I know that just before I get to runners that I get a 2/4 message. So I am missing one before that. Just cant tell if it is the muddy path or the evasion of patrol. But I think I am doing both. After killing the runners I went the back path to kill the monk boss and my number dropped from 3 to 2, I also then went and agroed the 2 groups to the left and my number then dropped to 1. So the group in question is the patrol. Do you need to kill them in the waterfall? Madflip 23:27, 31 October 2006 (CST)

I got 3/4 with my Dervish, because despite what it says in the text, you can fail Suggestion #1 without taking the passage. If you hug the waterfall wall from the word go, it never triggers, is never counted, and you don't get Masters. My advice is to make sure the suggestion is literally triggered. Auntmousie 22:40, 7 January 2007 (CST)

The Bonus is NOT Glitched!!!
At the beginning you need to say no to the corsair escort and stay to the right until Dunkoro says not to take this path. Then head Due West to the waterfall and clean out that area before heading to path going up next to waterfall. There is a Corsair Patroll comming down the hill (DO NOT HARM THEM) head west to waterfall and let them pass. Sneak arround behind them staying to the east wall when you are prompted to do so. The next one is the 2 Runners "You must kill BOTH Runners before they spawn a group of corsairs Each" My Party Used a Water Elementalist and 2 crippling rangers and a lot of Damage to stop them from moving and to Vaporize them before they could "Alert" the 2 corsair units in hiding. from then on it was ending the mission in any number of ways. ~Rud
 * It may not have been up to the level of glitched, but it sure was extremely finicky. It was not possible to get the point for the waterfall if -- before getting the warning and triggering the patrol -- you went in the area south east of the waterfall that the patrol eventually goes to after you trigger it. It would fail you completely silently. This has been fixed. Also there is no reason to go the "don't take this path" area at all, as long as you have never travelled along that path you will get credit for it. Cloud 01:27, 3 November 2006 (CST)
 * I beg to differ - maybe it has been fixed, but the "don't take this path" area is only reason my Dervish doesn't have Masters here - and I didn't take the path. I just didn't get close enough for Dunkoro to tell me not to. Auntmousie 22:42, 7 January 2007 (CST)

I have had my trouble with is aswell - but managed with a persistent PUG and several tries. I do think the key is not to put any meaning into the 0 out of 4 status etc - bc it simply doesnt add up the way it states it in the mission log. If you do all four you will in the end get a status flash on the screen with 4 out of 4 before the cutscene and you'll get your masters. (Girion 03:09, 3 November 2006 (CST))

The bonus is possible with two people and the rest heroes.
It's really very simple. You each bring Magrid the Sly, equip her with pin down, and then when you get to the spotters, you decide who gets which spotter, you lock the heroes on, and then then run forward, and they will both unleash the crippling shots. Tada, kill them, and that's it. No need for finding a human ranger in dervish/paragon country. Lucielle 01:39, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * I did it alone with Magrid crippling and Zhed snaring. In place of Magrid, either Jin or Sousuke would be appropriate, and so no matter what heroes you have available, you can solo it by assigning 1 slow-maker to each runner (prioritizing damage to the westbound, as was mentioned). Any caster illusion secondary would probably do alright, as well. --Bob III 21:20, 21 December 2006 (CST) I also solo'd this except I didn't pack snaring on my heroes.  All I did was equip Hidden Caltrops and death's charge.  While the bonus was displaying the requirements, I deathscharged in and used HC on the runner to the left, he was dead before the one on the right got very far.  Since HC is ranged, I was able to snare him quickly and finish him off.  No need for humans! --cowboysoultaker 19:44, 27 December 2006 (EST)
 * I tried it with just me, heroes and hench, unfortunately I could not get it to work with pinning down successfully, however the two real people and the rest heroes worked fine. --Lemming64  19:51, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I entirely H/Hed it. I just charged them, bashed one down near dead, YMLAD the other one, and finish them off. Neither got more than ten yards. --Joseph Leito 18:22, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Kill the runners....
I found that if I killed the runners even after they alerted the patrols, I still got credit for this suggestion. Anyone else experience this?


 * This fact NEVER happend for me.. and I kill them a lot of times.. :( Corsaire 02:49, 21 November 2006 (CST)
 * I got credit for this as well. My assassin spiked the first runner down quickly, but I couldn't stop the other one before he got to the pop-up mob.  However, it updated for me anyway (although I didn't get masters because I had to kill the patrol by the waterfall).--Dfscott 16:11, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * Nope, didn't happen. Killed one runner, the other got away, mob popped up, killed mob, finished mission with 3/4. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 10:06, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * Just today, I noticed that when killing a runner after a botched attempt (the mob spawned), the bonus status flashed up like it updated, but the number of recomendations followed stayed the same -- that is, it gives an alert, but you havn't succeeded.

Major Change
I have completly redone how the Bonus is shown. I would like to state that I have Protector of Elona, and I have completed this bonus many times as well as tested many of the triggers that I have pointed out. If someone can actually prove a trigger wrong please edit accordingly, though it should be all correct. FloatingLakes 00:27, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Bonus not Triggering?
During three tries on this mission today with a new character (ranger, non Elonian), the bonus popups never triggered. Not even the initial Dunkoro popup warning against following the corsairs trigger (but clicking on the corsair twice does bring up an exclamation point). Makes it hard to do the bonus if Dunkoro is mute. Anyone else have problems with this today? -76.166.23.65 21:44, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Bonus Doable Solo
Using ethereal burdon + imagined burden, at a decent illusion (8), and a cripple skill (crip shot in my case). Hit first runner, heading west, with crip shot, and set the hero/henchmen party (I took an airspiker hero) on this one; then switch to runner 2, hit him with imagined burden, start attacking him with degen/poison/cripple (I was a ranger for this attempt). Degen works well, cripshot/cripple does not work well - they have Dodge on so most crip shot attempts to hit the 2nd runner are futile - mesmer hexes or water magic are needed. My heroes got distracted by the termites while killing runner 1, and I still managed to catch up with the second runner and kill him as he was walking away. Should be easier if you don't trigger the termites. -Scyfer 11:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I was also able to solo it with hero/henchies. Heroes are Olias, Dunkuroo and Zhed. Olias is mm and Zhed is SF nuker replacing resurrect with Deep Freeze (no need to put points into water). First make sure you have all the 9 or 10 minions for Olias, then cast glyph of scarifice with Zhed, target the further runner, call target and cast Deep freeze on the runner. Then get Zhed to cast Searing Flames while the rest of the team go up to them. By the time you can get to them the glyph of scarifice is recharged, use it and then cast meteor shower onto the other runner and call target on him - this means that the minions will target the first runner and the heroes/henchies will target the 2nd runner. Both runners dead in 3 seconds. Careless 07:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)

DEEP FREEZE!! don't need any points into water magic for it as said and when i completed this it hit both runners before the suggestion even triggered. (i ran in first, no gylph of sac didnt think of that.). i was also specc'd water magic for this one with dash, death's charge and forzen burst just in case. didn't use them. 72.78.223.169 15:41, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Deep Freeze plus some crippling skill is perfect. I was a ranger, equipped Pin Down. I had Zhed equipped with a Searing Flames fire build and Deep Freeze. Prior to triggering it I had Zhed locked onto the second runner (the farthest one). I ran in hit the first with Pin Down then told Zhed to hit the second with Deep Freeze. First one was dead within a couple of seconds as the minions Master had consumed him. I think focused my attacks on the second and he was dead within 4 seconds or so.--Thor79••Talk 15:24, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

First suggestion requires triggering?
I recently completed the bonus without triggering the first suggestion, but I noticed the article has been updated to say that triggering is necessary to receive credit. I will try to test this again to verify. - Bcstingg 11:47, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * See the comments by Madflip and Auntmousie above, under glitch, or am i just doing it wrong?. I have not verified this myself, as I always made sure to trigger sugg#1 anyway, but it makes sense.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 12:48, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * I have done many tests on this mission making sure what is needed for what, otherwise i wouldnt have redone the bonus like this. the first suggestion does not need to be triggered because it automatically marks as complete once you reach the 4th suggestion dialog. if someone can show me this is wrong do so, otherwise i think the page needs to be reverted back. --FloatingLakes 13:35, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * Have you tested the mission recently, though? Anet may have changed it, as they often change minor details in how the missions work without mentioning it in their update notes.  Auntmousie's post above clearly indicates that he/she did not get credit for this suggestion when it was not triggered, so I have changed it to recommend triggering the suggestion.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 15:48, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * auntmousie's post was a while ago looking at the started topics. i would say that yes i have tested this recently, considering it was done after that topic. before my revision the bonus was quite sloppy in regards to how things work. i think if auntmousie would have read my revisions it would not have been a problem. --FloatingLakes 18:23, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * I did this mission yesterday. The first suggestion does *not* require triggering. I received credit for it upon reaching the general area of the waterfall. -- bcstingg (talk • contribs) 21:27, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Mission map inconsistent with bonus description
The mission map, and the page with the key for the numbers, is out of sync with the bonus description here. The map counts the initial suggestion that doesn't count toward the bonus (don't trust this guy) as suggestion #1 and goes up to suggestion #5. #2-#5 on the map correspond to #1-#4 in the description on this page. Suggest renumbering the suggestions on this text page as being easier than redoing the map.
 * Please sign comments. Regarding your note, yes you're right. It states #1 at the beginning, when you can either Trust Bohseda or not, but neither is part of bonus. The part regarding the Corsair camps to the west was omitted, and from the image, it almost suggests that you should charge into the camps. I'm gonna try doing this mission and getting bonus (damn runners keep getting away!!!) and take a new snapshot. --MagickElf666 00:20, 22 July 2007 (CDT) (see, thats how you sign a comment)

Caltrops
You don't need Hidden Caltrops. Just the normal skill "Caltrops" found in the Shadow arts attribute after shadowstepping to one of the runners. It acctually cripples both of them.

Archers don't hit you on the other side
When I did this mission, the archers on the bridge didn't attack me when I was on the other side (where The Hunger and General Bayel is). My Warrior was able to swing at General Bayel without getting hit by the archer. Anybody else notice this? Or was that a glitch?

Bug/Glitch?
Then i was doing this mission some time ago, i was impatient, and tried to walk past the corsairs, while Captain Bohseda was talking to Dunkoro. Suddenly, my screen started freaking out a bit. I was about to restart the computer, but the screen gone normal again....tho...after that, my character and Dunkoro was on the other side of the corsairs! My 6 henchmen were trappedd on the other side of the corsairs, and i couldn't walk to the other side of the corsairs again (i tried to). Captain Bohseda still had the green '!' marker above his head. I have a screenshot proving it, but it is probably too large. Anyone else experienced this?
 * Yup, I intentionally broke the barrier the corsairs at the beginning created. You should be able to break it both ways. - Anon

wtf
the guide for the bonus is so confusing. I came across the suggestions in a completely different order and had no idea what most of them were talking about. what corsair runners? which waterfall where? Is it me?&mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:45, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

its you completly you, just follow the map at te top of the map142.161.90.233 12:46, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Gliched
It is the waterfall one, but once you encounter the runners it will sometimes give credit for it, but not always. Still trying to do this, earlier the runner only had to take literally one step and then their spawns came in, should have screenshot it.

the bonus is avliable with 1 player dervish + heroes + hench
im a dervish. i was a D/A for this mission.

It took me two tried but it was worth it, and much easier than i thought.. first try i failed to kill runners, but second i equipped crippling sweep, avatar of balthazar and Death's Charge.

I said no to the corsairs and killed them, then moved to the mandragors near the waterfall and killed them, then i stepped close to the waterfall and went to the road untill dunkoro said the suggestion and then i moved again to the waterfall.

after that i straight moved to the ground and i saw the two runners, and activated balthazar and shadow stepped to the left one first and crippled him and spammed dmg at him, they didnt even moved yet, and i did this before dunkoro even said the suggestions and it got me some time. when they start run i targeted heroes and hench to attack the 1 im not attacking, when my target was about 20% hp and the other target was really close to the camp i shadow stepped to it and crippled it to death then i moved to the 1 left and killed him to..

balthazar+crippling gave me enoth speed to take them down easly. death's charge saved me the few seconds to walk to them/

for any dervish i suggest to take those 3 skills.


 * I got this bonus on my first try, on accident, as a Dervish with heroes/henchmen, and I'm a total newb. I had Balthazar's avatar but none of the other skills you mention. &mdash;Tanaric 19:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

i didnt said it is hard to do without those skills, i said it make it much easier with this skills... im sure i could have done it without those skills, i just dont want to waste my protector of elona's time for nothing =]

Signet of Pious Restraint. 'Nuff said. (T/C) 02:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Warrior strat for catching the runners
Using this bar, it was rather easy to build up adrenaline, charge in and thump both runners before they could escape. Cripple one, KD the other, finish him off and return to your original target with a new cripple and Bull's Strike.

The only real problem with this plan is that it requires some late-game GWEN skills... --Bishop 17:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I did something similar when doing this is HM. I had Zhed as a Mind Freeze ele and keep the other in place while I smashed the other one into oblivion Blue.rellik 10:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Bonus part 4
I did this with no problem on my dervish- all heroes and hench. I used Avatar of Balthazar and attacked the left one, and locked Gwen's target as the right corsair runner. She used imagined burden, and the runners didn't even try to run until Dunkoro came up and said his thing. do they not trigger until dunk says we must stop them, or was this a lovely glitch?
 * forgot to sign--Bastthegatekeeper 14:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a bit of a delay before they start running. In easy mode, you may be able to kill one before they start running, and only have to slow the other.  I don't think it's very prudent to assume that you'll be able to do this, however, as if something goes slightly wrong and it takes a little longer than you think, the one that isn't slowed could pop Natural Stride for a speed boost, block subsequent attacks, and be gone, or at least drag you into quite a few bugs that will complicate your efforts at killing runners.  Quizzical 19:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Using Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support after using You Move Like a Dwarf works wonders on one of the runners while using a slow down hex on the other, even in HM! I had a hero use Teinai's Prison for the second runner, which lasts 13 seconds at only 6 water magic and slows 66% (and it's not elite);  just don't use any fire magic.  GW-Susan 22:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hard Mode H/H
Just did this in HM henchway. pretty easy: i played as a nec [OAZCY5xk6QegdgcJkglQZwuI] with dunkoro as a blessed light healer, gwen [OQhDAZwSKEOToBqQRwBXwFD] and zhed [OghjswMZYSvDTDXDVDDTQiQDXMA] two monks and two ele henchman. I know there might be too many snares but i don't mind, i got my masters :P user:sasa 14:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I did it with sabway, and me running icy shackles/shard storm. Not really that hard. Lord of all tyria 14:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

random note
The other day when I was doing this mission, I got to Bayel and for some reason he refused to move when attacked. So I took him out without The Hunger moving to attack me. I can't remember if this is typical mission behavior or not. (T/C) 05:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've only seen him move to heal the Hunger. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  07:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In Abaddon's Mouth, around the second time the vizier casts Chimera of Intensity on you, the Mursaat occasionally won't move when you attack them. Or at least I assume it's occasionally, I can't remember a time when they did. I don't know if that mission has any common grounds with this one, but it's something to consider. &mdash; Powersurge360  07:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Those Jade will never move unless you don't kill the Mursaat Monk which appears before them. Notice how he runs away. It's always been like that. @Viper - The Hunger spawns way behind him, or at least it did for me, so that's awful dumb design. :\



(T/C) 16:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Bug
Today the Kournan Bowmen could hit me through the ground; no matter where I stood, at least a few of them could hit me. I ended up wiping on them because I could not stand there and kill them without being killed, I could not run past without being killed, and the hench ran out of res sigs after Khim and Dunkoro kept getting killed trying to rez me.

I'd consider this one of my saddest mission failures to date. >.> GW Z-axis is fail. (T/C) 03:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What I always do is put up an Aegis chain and run past the archers. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 18:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Aegis chain works well, but I didn't have room on skillbar. Have to snare the runners and all that. Because you must take Dunkoro, and because Mhenlo fails as a healer, Dunkoro was doing Healer's Boon. So I gave him Deep Freeze. >.> I also took Margrid the Sly along because I wanted to level her up; so she had Melandru's Shot. But, Natural Stride laughs at that. So I took along Olias as a Curses necro with Rigor Mortis, plus other skills to help kill the archers (SS etc). I suppose I could have slapped Aegis on Olias... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but did you just said "Healer's Boon"? --Alf&#39;s Hitman 00:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't tell me you're one of those UA advocates. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow wow, stop. My sarcasm detector seems to be failing. Did you just said "Unyielding Aura"? --Alf&#39;s Hitman 00:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sarcasm fails on the Internets. I don't get the joke, and that means it failed, too. "XD" [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I was hoping that about HB was a joke. Anyways, I don't feel like spending 3 hours illustrating why HB is bad, so I'll leave it at that. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 03:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * WoH is gud, but I've been running that since Prophecies, and I got bored of it. HB gives me an excuse to take Healing Ribbon too, the only AoE heal that Heroes can use effectively. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:44, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Bugs n Runners
Uh...how does one get to killing the bugs while the runners are running away? Unless there is some other route on the map that I have missed, you couldn't do that. Besides, the runners start to run a few seconds after you get within like 1/2 compass of them, so even if you fought through the bugs it would be rather useless. (T/C) 23:28, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've found that Crippling Shot works well if you have access to it. I've never had a problem with the bugs, since I focus the runner closest to the bugs with crip shot and keep the other runner crippled (with either CS or YMLaD). Personally, I don't think the bugs get in the way of the mission; they didn't for me. King Neoterikos 01:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, sometimes if the H/H fudge things up (i.e. you didn't micro well enough) the runner nearest the bugs will get close enough that you'll aggro a whole swarm of them. What with melee hench more aggressive these days, they will often extend and potentially get killed, especially in HM. It's true that it's not usually problem when you do things the correct way.
 * Cripshot does work well. Although Heroes seem to have issues with keeping it on both runners unless you micro it. They either seem to spam the skill nonstop or not use it at all. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm a ranger, so it's easier for me. Dark Prison, maybe? Lock sin heroes onto runners (just throwing ideas out there). King Neoterikos 02:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Depending on the spawn locations, sometimes you can aggro some bugs through a wall and get them to come all the way around to die without coming within aggro range of the runners. Quizzical 20:05, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ahhhh.... I've pulled a few of the insects through the wall without getting close enough to the runners to trigger them. But it's completely unnecessary if you can just load your Heroes up with 66% to 90% Slows instead.  I've even body-blocked them runners a few times with well timed flagging + Charge/Fallback. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]


 * If the bugs are all hanging back, it's hard to pull any of them without the runners, but it's completely unnecessary then. If at least one of the bugs is up near the runners, then it's a lot easier to pull that bug's group, and also useful, because that's when you'd aggro them while fighting the runners.  Quizzical 01:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Req
It only says you must have Dunkoro. So can you run to the outpost and do the mission without advancing in the storyline? -->Suicidal Tendencie 15:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No you can't run to the outpost without advancing in the storyline, as noted in Moddok Crevice (location). Lยкץ๒๏ץ talk  16:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Completing Rilohn Refuge or Pogahn Passage drops you here. I don't think there is any other way to get to here the first time, though I hesitate to say that because runners have all sorts of tricks that they use.  Quizzical 16:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * (EC more than once)It says you can get there by doing one of those missions, it does not however say you can only enter by finishing one of those missions. I've given it a fair few tries... the portals do not seem reachable -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 16:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You can get into Bahdok Caverns from Wehhan Terraces with no requirements, and then from there I suppose you could get into Moddok Crevice. But, to do that you'd have to go north into the Desolation and make a giant loop through Basalt Grotto. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * How'd that work? Yesterday a mate tried to run me to the Bone Palace (Ancient armor). Even when I was dead the Junnundu told him to get lost. And that was just trying to get near Remains from the Gate. -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 15:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a long and time-consuming method which involves repeatedly using Rebirth or something along those lines. I don't know how it works, myself. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

i swear
people are autist at snaring runners--Relyk 21:06, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem may be people relying on crippling against mobs with a block chance stance and condition removal. Using hexes to slow them is far more reliable.  If other people in your group are messing you up, try using only henchmen and heroes.  Quizzical 21:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Deep Freeze is large enough to hit them both and the 90% should slow them enough to kill or apply more permanent hexes.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 21:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Deep Freeze is 66%. You actually want copious amounts of knockdowns. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:43, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you get a hero to chain knockdowns on one runner long enough for you to kill the other runner and then come back and kill the one, and without the player manage the hero during the process beyond setting a flag exactly once? You can do that with slowing hexes.  Quizzical 22:10, 16 May 2009 (UTC)