User talk:Dazra/buildarchive/Build:W/any Cleave PvE Soldier

Rate-a-Build
Favored:
 * 1) I have tested this build ant it worked PERFECT. 62.100.33.180 07:00, 11 October 2006 (CDT)Bryan P.
 * 2) Nice concept, works nice 81.69.20.91 13:41, 13 October 2006 (CDT) (suspect of repeat voting)
 * 3) I like the build, but frenzy is better 81.69.175.164 10:24, 16 October 2006 (CDT) (suspect of repeat voting)
 * 4) I'm really getting use of having this build. It really works! (suspect of repeat voting + no name givn, so is void)
 * 5) --DeathByPepsi 12:35, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 6) Not flashy, but solid build. Works great vs. bosses because of Cleave, though Triple Chop is better for PvE in general. Good job overall. --Whizkidos 18:43, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 7) --Azaya 05:32, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 8) It works pretty good. Would be ideal to have frenzy, but this isn't for everyone (this is a general build?). Prehaps put that as an advanced option &mdash; Skuld 16:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 9) Works fair enough. Energy/Adrenaline usage is quite balanced. ~ Nilles (msg)  03:43, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * 10) I like it as a generic build.  It is an easy build that most people (even non-pro's) should be able to put together.  I see it as a starting point for axe warriors.  The elite choice isn't the BEST, but you did make this build with only core skills.  It might be annoying for some to see builds that require all three campaigns.  20:21, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * 11) I don't have factions and therefore can't use triple chop.  That being said, this build works nicely and is simple enough for heroes to use. --MrFunke 17:43, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Unfavored:
 * 1) No. Triple Chop... Flurry --Silk Weaker 07:12, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 2) No. Same reason as Silk, in this setup Triple Chop makes more sense than Cleave. Besides that - awful name for the build! It is not bad, but it is so generic that I would suggest a specialization like W/Me with Physical Resistance or W/Mo and a rez spell for PvE. The build also needs to decide if it wants to be a PvE build or a PvP build. One could as well remove all skills except Cyclone Axe and say it is used to generate adrenaline. Not enough for a build, the basic idea of Cyclone Axe, Healing Signet and Watch Yourself is already seen in dozens of fully fleshed out builds. --Long 08:17, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 3) Triple Chop is king of PvE axe elites. Dismember seems to also be missing from this bar.  Why bother mentioning "Try Triple Chop, Whirling Axe or Eviscerate for your elite instead of Cleave"?  You might as well say "Try a completely different build if you'd like."--Lodurr 19:50, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 4) Cleave is a poor eliete choice for PvE. Sir On The Edge 15:53, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 5) Triple Chop is way more effective in PvE, and this would be way better with a declared secondary and skills from the secondary.
 * 6) It's a timeless and over-supported fact that Cleave does not have efficient DPS vs. any other axe elite. Flawed concept = unfavored build vote from me. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 21:15, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Responses
Unfavour:
 * Lodurr - I put dismember in as default &mdash; Skuld 16:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Edge - a better one? ;) &mdash; Skuld 16:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Favour:
 * Azaya - reason please &mdash; Skuld 16:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Discussion
Ok first off frenzy isn't the best choice for PvE. Try somthing like Berserker Stance or Tiger Stance.I don't really see the point of Rush in PvE.Instead of Rush you might wanna try "Watch Yourself!" for a little more defense.

Isn't the title from the yugioh card game or something? Surpisingly I know that...--Whizkidos 17:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Rush is a cancel-stance. Frenzy is a now popular PvP choice since it is cancelable at will but helps you dish out the damage while you aren't being targeted.

Yes, Black Luster Soldier is a ritual monster, kinda rare and pretty good...

This previously unsigned comment was added by me Blastedt 17:54, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Personally I tend to use bonetti's defense as a cancel stance in pve, it works well as long as you don't need to cancel too frequently and has a genuinely useful side-effect. I'm a big fan of frenzy in pve... obviously not on a tank and not combined with heal sig but goes nicely with a dragon slash build. Phool 10:40, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

Frenzy isnt the best choice.. what have you been smoking.. &mdash; Skuld 17:46, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * What's wrong with Frenzy in PvE, except for a Factions boss spike? The additional adrenal attack skills don't play nicely with Cleave though; you could just sub Watch Yourself for Executioner's and leave Penetrating's slot open. -Savio 17:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Frenzy is a pretty good choice, for PvP. In fact, before now, it's been THE choice. PvE though... Cleave is a bad skill, check teh guru link on Cleave's page. Even if you want to use it, you want to use it with almost no other adrenal skills. That's how you milk a bad skill... --Silk Weaker

I kind of like cleave personaly. But i dont like frenzy in PvE, it forces you to take 2 skills where one would have sufficed and taking more damage as a tank isn't a good thing.--DeathByPepsi 02:24, 6 October 2006 (CDT)


 * ...What's a tank?
 * Side note: That link on Guru is over a year old and anything in the first post is outdated. Cleave's had two(?) buffs since and Eviscerate has had a nerf. Still, Evis is my preferred elite. -Savio 10:48, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I've been trying out Cleave since the Evis nerf and I think I might like it better. This build isn't bad, but Rush should probably be removed since you don't need a cancel for Frenzy anymore. BigAstro 03:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

lol i didn't know a name for it, and ive played a yu-gi-oh game before this and saw that name, so i'd tought: heay, that's a cool name and it's quite strong, and this build is also strong. so why not use this name? Shady 09:50, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

Cleave is a nice replacement to Eviscerate, but only because of it being half the cost of Evis, and when you have to build up the adren for Executioners Strike anyway it really doesnt matter. plus Evis Deals Deep Wound making your target easier to kill overall. Gecko 11:56, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

2 smackes of Whirling Axe is more damage than Cleve with the same adrenaline cost in the end. I would put Whirling Axe down as a variant. Joshgt2 21:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

This build and the W/any Axecutioner are basicaly the same except the elites. I think its possible to put Whirling Axe and Eviscerate as variants the build works well with both. Im not a big fan of the name sorry to say. Is your heart set on it or are you willing to change?--DeathByPepsi 22:32, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I'll ad the variants in the build and the name; it's fine by me if you come up with a better name. but not something as cleav warrior or something. Shady 13:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Since the build can basicaly use all the axe elites what about axe master?--DeathByPepsi 01:43, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

yeah that's a fine name. or maybe Cleave Master or something...Shady 10:38, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

This what I use for PvE sometimes, usually lower lvl areas:

you're missing out on the deep wound, dismember is now only five adrenaline, good skill! &mdash; Skuld 07:01, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

This is Great but what about a Sword Variant with Quivering Blade being spammed instead...GuardianBoTT

I think that Whirling Axe is a better choice for PvE as well, since very few monsters block attacks, also "I Will Survive!" is invaluable protection against conditions, which id never trade for FGJ's adrenaline boost -- Phoenixx

Yes, it needs a rename. Axe Twist should be paired with Dismember. Is Cleave really good enough to be a stand alone skill? [BLM]

This build seems to want to be a general Axe Warrior PvE guide. To that end, I've found the following build to be the most effective:

In the optional slot I usually carried a Cap Sig: otherwise I guess Watch Yourself would be the best choice (or Vigorous Spirit on a wammo). Flurry reduces attack damage but not the damage bonuses from Triple, Cyclone, and Executioner's, and Dismember still does its job of applying a deep wound. Zealous haft is a necessity and with decent mobbing, you'll never be short of energy. I don't intend this build to replace the Cleave build, I'm just trying to move this collaborative effort forward.--Lodurr 19:14, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Berserker Stance
This skill is totally unsuited to spamming a 4 adrenaline skill... &mdash; Skuld 09:31, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Tiger Stance maybe? Kessel 09:36, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Erhm, got any suggestions? Not frenzy, Flurry is in variants list but maybe Tiger Stance is a nice fit in.--Shady 09:42, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, Hmm Tiger Stance is 8/20 seconds here. I think Frenzy with Rush/Dash as a cancel would be better. Tiger stance is a good skill but its best to go all strength+weapon with majors on both imo &mdash; Skuld 09:50, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Frenzy PvE 8(.--DeathByPepsi 12:35, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I found out that frenzy isnt as good in PvE, but flurry is, so i changed it.Shady 14:34, 11 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Its fine &mdash; Skuld 12:39, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

It seems to me here flurry is just an energy burner it decreasing your elites high damage low adrenaline cost effectiveness. Have you thought about "For Great Justice!" ? It could provide a good use for your energy, every third hit would be a cleave. Just an idea to play around with. I like Cleave and really the only skill I'd switch out personaly would be Flurry but thats just my opinion.--DeathByPepsi 19:56, 11 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeh, flurry wasn't that good. i tried FGJ and that worked okay. but still frenzy worked best..Shady 14:21, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Re-name?
Blackluster soldier doesn't really describe the build at all, it should be re-named IMO.-Onlyashadow, Top 100 13:44, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

what about the piece Rename? maybe put your comment there? and what about axecutioner, I dont think they're merged.. --Shady 13:50, 17 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Moved to . Kept the "Soldier" part intact at least. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:36, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Any suggestions? I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want a build named after a Yu-Gi-Oh monster. =P &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:41, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

What about "Mob Cleaver" XD --Tsuka 08:47, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Dude a bit more serious...--Shady 13:19, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Lumberjack Justice? Bone Cleaver? Beaver Cleaver? (lol - had to put that one up) Divorce Lawyer? (ok - another funny but I can't help it) Vigilante? I have more but I'll leave it at that for now. Opinions?  Vallen Frostweaver  10:23, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Elite Skill Choice
Generally the PvE build I use most of the time, but I don't see the need for "For Great Justice!" since you already have Cyclone Axe to charge up Cleave, which is fairly quick. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:54, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * And before that... possibly a check for Sockpuppets? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:53, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

I think for great justice is used for some quiker adrenaline gain, you gai 50% more so you can use your attacks more often. that's my thaught...62.100.33.180 04:45, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Cyclone Axe is a pretty useful Adrenaline gain, especially if your party is against more than 3 enemies (which it should be). &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:15, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Vote Arguments
To Silk Walker:
 * Erh dude, its a build based around Cleave not Triple Chop but if you want i can put it in variants and Flurry too.--Shady 09:29, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Cleave is a bad skill PvP, Cleave is a bad skill PvE. Therefore, idea is flawed... therefore, build is unfavored. Get my logic yo?--Silk Weaker 06:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm not into Warrioring really so don't have much experience with them. Cleave doesn't seem so bad to me on inspection. What makes it a "bad" skill? (Or have I missunderstood you?) --JP 07:00, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

I smell sockpuppetry. =/ 3 anon's and two with a similar IP address. Will it never end??? — Jyro X (contribs) 07:18, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

I've mentioned it several times, and I thought I'd be a bit annoying if I did it again, but yes..

Check the Cleave page, there is a thread on the guru underlining why cleave is a mediocre damage skill, useless for PvP due to lack of spikes. For PvE, compare with Triple Chop. Much better skill. Assuming you want to loop cyclone axe, cleave, chop chop chop, cleave, cyclone axe cleave (assuming approx 4 foes), you actually deal far more damage with Triple Chop, Cyclone, Executioners, chop chop chop, Cyclone, Executioner's, Triple, Cyclone, Executioner's, etc etc etc. Note how Triple Chop's damage is already huge, except x4. In situations where there are LESS foes, cleave is even weaker since adrenaline gain is slower and recharge skills are obviously better.. recharge skills such as Triple Chop. Of course, this means Triple Chop does less damage due to no AoE... still more damage than Cleave though. --Silk Weaker`

Cleave is simply not a good skill to make a build around. The only way I could see it work effectively is if the player uses a lot of energy due to other skills, leaving Cleave as the melee damage output. Chumpy 15:40, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Merge..?
Maybe since they are basically the same...this builds should be merged with axecutioner?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 13:44, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * No need. Axecutioner was deleted? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:54, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Cleanup
Hey, I fixed some spelling and reworded a few sentences that were too personalized or didn't sound right. I also took Flurry out of the usage section since it is not listed in the skill bar or variants. You should also consider removing mention of IAS in the introduction unless you have it in the skill bar. Or maybe add it to the optional slot section. Looks viable but I haven't capped Cleave yet to test it. :) -- BrianG 00:47, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

I dont play warrior that much, but a build is supposed to be unique in that a new concept is being used that hasnt been discovered before, this one doesnt really have any combos or linking skills that havent been used before. To me its just another offencive warrior build. There isnt much variation from other builds. Yes it may work well, but I don see this as deserving its own name, which I also think is bad, soley because Black luster soldier uses a sword, not an axe...--Hyprodimus Prime 12:32, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

How do you know that... sheez it isnt going about yu-gi-oh cards here.. it's just a name but if you want to change it(because you dont like it) please come up with another name. you simply cant unfavor a build because its name sucks.. --Shady 13:56, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Warriors aren't assasins they don't have complicated attack and defensive maneuvers. Their simplicity makes the builds very similar. But thats not a reason it shouldn't be vetted. Just because the build has watch yourself doesn't mean it should be merged with every warrior build that uses watch yourself. As for its genericness, you don't have to make a W/E using meteor shower, generic is good and often better then radical alternatives. Warriors have their own theme, they don't need a gimmick to pass.--DeathByPepsi 14:13, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Categories
Why is this build listed in the Prophecies build categorie (and not in the Factions and Nightfall build categories)? The other two core build are not listed in the Prophecies build categorie.

193.173.137.253 02:49, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * fixed. ~ Nilles (msg) 07:01, 24 November 2006 (CST)