Talk:Peace and Harmony

Note that spells that must target the caster or all party members will end Peace and Harmony prematurely.

?? so will heal party end it? Peace_a I wrote that, didn't I? Try it yourself. --Kenthar 03:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Do life stealing or health degeneration hexes end Peace and Harmony? Forget about it. Most of them are "spells that target a foe". -- 19:32, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Since it ends on "spells", wouldn't it be good to use it on a Ranger or energy-based Warrior too? --theeth 19:49, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Won't work well. The "deals damage to a foe" part f*cks it up. The only way to harm a foe without ending P&H it is non-spell skills that do not cause damage. Vampiric Touch springs to mind as one example. Or transfer a condition with Plague Signet or Plague Touch. -- 20:21, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * There's a few other weirdos like what Tetris L was mentioning. Chillblains, minions, degen wells.  So possibly but hard.  Maybe there's a Mo/Ne or Ne/Mo combo in there somewhere. -JoDiamonds 21:27, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Possibly a duo (or quadro), both spamming Vamp Touch and Barbed signet? Of course, one can also lay down traps and such now, so maybe 2 N/R and 2 N/Mo... --Bishop 22:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Nice, my favourite Monk elite has just become even better! :D --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 02:07, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * Lol, this was your favorite? Well, it FINALLY might be worth using, if you provide it for numerous monks.  I can see how it'd be handy with enough monks on a team, as it grants a pip to each, and can be maintained now on many.  With a +20% enchanting staff, 15 divine favour and Blessed Aura running you could get 144 second P&H, which would allow you to maintain it on 8 monks.  On a 3 monk backline you could thus spend a mere tenth of a pip to give 2 other monks a pip each, and get a free blessed aura for yourself in the bargain. That's not a bad investment, but I don't think it's anything to write home about.--Epinephrine 03:17, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, indeed, my favourite. :) I may not play the most effective monk this way, but just casting P&H on myself and spamming orison and dwayna's kiss usually gets me quite a long way, without running out of energy. Now I can even use Heal Party and Aegis without losing P&H! Bliss! :) --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 03:43, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Capture bug?
It would appear that since the March second update (or shortly after) the capturing of this skill is either bugged or the location changed. I recently went to Marnta only to find that the Peace and Harmony skill was not able to be captured from her: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/accadacca84/guildwars/gw681.jpg

I figured that since the Wiki specifically says that she is the boss you obtain the skill from, that this would be worth noting on discussion until it is resolved. A bug report was sent in not long after I discovered this issue and attempted to capture the skill numerous times to no avail, by leaving and re-entering the area and defeating her repeatedly.

My apologies, but I could not find out after breifly searching how to make a clickable link. I hope this is no trouble. --Acca
 * Looks like Monk elites got screwed up with this update. See Talk:Marnta Doomspeaker for all the info I know about it.  --Rainith 12:41, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * There was an update when I logged into the game, so I went to check on Peace and Harmony and successfully captured it. --Acca 06:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

ok seriously......even at 3 (THREE) inspiration magic MoR gives you more energy then this one at 16 divine... It might be some good in a 3-monk backline, but still, once someone on the opposing team calls out   "**** is using Peace and Harmony" it will be drained every time you use it (drain enchantment needs a little more then 3 inspiration magic, but will generally still provide more energy then PaH lol). Suddenly, your enemies are the ones gaining energy from YOUR elite. What I mean to say is that this skill sucks arse, and nothing less. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.84.52.71 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:46, 10 August 2006 (CDT).
 * you don't like it, fine. all skills are optional. insulting people is not apprecated. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:06, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I've found this skill to be less than useful myself, even going as far as saying it's possibly the worst in the game for PvP. If anything, it may have its uses in small battles like HA (Heroes' Ascent) where a bonder is feasible (most 8x8 battles I've been in have at least one dedicated mesmer or something like an order of apostacy necro or Ritual Lord with Disenchant).  Personally, I probably would stray away from it in HA, too, because I've had better luck with prot/smite there (and any boost to damage helps in those small groups).  My last bond group went down in about 25 seconds to a highly ranked Korean guild (like #6), so I don't know if it was the bonding, or the competition.

seriously, WTF?
What is this crap about PaH making boon monking possible with 4 pips? This has obviously been written by someone who knows SHIT about energy management. I know it gives you a 4th pip, but if the writer had known anything about energy management he/she would've known that the energy from MoR, ED and OoB goes far beyond that. I think it should be made clear that Peace and Harmony is INFERIOR to MoR, ED and OoB. Inferior, and nothing less. I pointed this out in a very polite way by adding something to the last note (everything from "it's drawback is...") Also, why does the table show the energy per second "when constantly maintained on yourself"? that is the worst way to use PaH (exept casting it on an elementalist perhaps) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thomas (talk &bull; contribs) 16:02, 11 August 2006  (CDT).
 * wow, bitter much? check out Energy management guide --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:04, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Whatever, but shouldn't the 'maintained constantly on yourself' be replaced with 'maintaned constantly on as many people as possible', along with a 'maintained constantly on as many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod' and a 'maintaned constantly on an many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod and Blessed Aura active'? after all, that is the only good way to use it. -Thomas 14:16, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * You forgot the key word: Maintained on as many people who dont cause damage to enemy! Effectively reducing its usage to monks, ritualists and possibly trappers. Amilo Robin  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 17:09, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I added it, it was deleted - . I have to admit, it wasn't that good. Bold numbers in the progression table for the breaking point for "maintaining on another ally" could be a better solution. --Nemren 14:26, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

I mean something more like this:

Divine Favor blah blah Duration blah blah

Energy Gain per second 0.17 0.19  0.20  0.21  0.23  0.48  0.49  0.50  0.51  0.52  0.53  0.79  0.81 0.82,  0.83  0.83  0.84 0.85

Additional tables could be made for maintaining it with Blessed Aura and/or a 20% enchant mod The energy gain is when maintained constantly on as many people as possible, because we all know that is the only good way to use Peace and Harmony. If you maintain it constantly on yourself you're better of with almost any non-elite energy management skill. xD This would at least make this skill look like somehting else than complete and utter crap. Though I doubt if that is a good thing, since IMO it IS complete and utter crap, but that's imo -Thomas 16:05, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

You forget something though. Peace and harmony's usage becomes incredibly effective if the monk is having energy management problems in the firts place. Using Boon, you can now regenerate to 5 energy far faster than with other forms of energy management, which only activate once every twenty seconds or so. With Peace and harmony, you can recase every 4 seconds if your energy is at 0, which is, by the by, ALSO where boon becomes most effective, because the efficiency is increased since you don't lose the extra 2 energy. With other energy management, you'll have to cast every five seconds. Peace and harmony just has the edge when the monk is under extreme pressure. Besides, it allows you to put more points into divine and protection, making things like CoP and Signet of Devotion work more effectively as well.

I removed all the boon notes.... &mdash; Skuld 13:32, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

No that's not where it becomes incredibly effective. That's where it becomes totally inferior to MoR, Edrain and OoB -Thomas 03:02, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Have you considered using it on an allied monk, and then they have 5 pips, and can use their OWN energy management for even more energy? you don't even have to be a monk primary to use this on an allied monk when he's under pressure. --Terrifi Cani 14:21, 1 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Wouldn't Succor have the same result but be infinitely better in that situation, especially because an elite wouldn't be wasted? --Insidious420 11:26, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * With Succor you would have -1energy regen, and on top of that every time the allied monk uses a spell you'd lose energy. Therefore unless you're an all-signet/adrenal Warrior or Paragon it would be a very bad idea. RossMM 18:41, 6 February 2007 (CST)

This skill can have some use, it can be cast on other ally's. And with MoR you need to spend points in Inspiration Magic and it can't give others energy.--Want2be 10:26, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Energy Cost & Gain Over Time
Let me be the first to point out the difference between energy cost of MoR and P&H. So you said at 3 Inspiration Magic vs 15 Divine Favor, MoR would be better? Lets look at the energy gain, both spanning 20 seconds. With 3 Inspiration Magic, you would gain 16 energy after 20 seconds, but it takes 10 energy to cast it, so the gain is 6 energy. P&H's duration spans across 4 1/2 times the amount of MoR, so lets round that up to 2 energy every 20 seconds, just to give MoR an advantage. P&H gives you 10 energy over 20 seconds, at the cost of 2 energy, so the gain is 8 energy. If you were to give MoR the usual amount of attribute points, it would indeed give you more energy, but your healing abilities would drop considerably. P&H's biggest advantage is it's attribute, Divine Favor, an attribute that just about all monks already have a large amount of attribute points in. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

So what does all this mean? Peace and Harmony is not as good as Mantra of Recall, unless the user is a monk.


 * A pip of energy is one energy every three seconds, not every two seconds. Using the same arbitrary time span for both doesn't simplify analysis, it only obscures it.  At 15 divine with a +20% wrapping, you get 108s of P&H, netting you 31 e, or 0.287 e/s.  This is a little less than a pip of energy regen (as one would expect) since there's the overhead of casting P&H.  MoR at 3 inspiration gives you 16 e, netting you 6 e.  You can use MoR every 21s normally, meaning 0.286 e/s.  Take away the enchantment wrapping or go to 16 DF instead and P&H loses to 3 inspiration MoR.  Invest just one more rank into inspiration and you get 1/3 e/s from MoR, the same as one pip of energy regen, and P&H is eclipsed completely.  --Fyren 06:42, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

One energy every three seconds? Well there went my argument =\ I'll check this out and make sure. If its true, then yes MoR would be better than P&H. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * MoR has now been nerfed a bit, and now my old argument applies again. Now the gain from MoR is 3 energy at 3 inspiration magic.  VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * A bit. I use MoR with 10 insp magic, and it works fine (I only use this for boon protting, as boon healing is silly and a waste of energy). -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 12:06, 7 December 2006 (CST)


 * Lets not forget one important fact, when a fight starts getting ugly seconds count to a monk, sometimes even a half second cast time is too long when your trying to save a target. MoR needs to be reapplied every twenty seconds (or so depending on your enchanting) where as you can run PaH for a MUCH longer time befoer taking time out of healing your allies to recast it. Add to the fact that you can recast PaH and reset its duration at your convience (like say a breif lul) unlike MoR which MUST run out before you can benift from it andd PaH becomes far more versitile in long term engagments.


 * Yes, its less energy gain than a 10 point MoR but the ability to run a boon prot at 16 13 makes up for it greatly in a pinch as all your spells get more effective. Finnaly when running on empty the -2 energy from divine boon wont set you negetive, having the fourth pip back means you can cast more often for less energy since you get to partialy ignore the -2 per cast, where as a MoR boost will fill you back up and you'll start burning that -2 again.


 * Ive been using PaH over MoR in Zos shivros challenge lately and the preformace differnce is VERY notable, even before i start sharaing the wealth and running it on other casters. Like all elite skills it only sucks if you havent found the niche its meant for.--TypoNinja 16:02, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Peace and Succor
A full set of Radiant armor and three peices of Attunement (other two for vigor and attribute) and a Staff of the Forgotten nets you 64 energy. When using this (or having a hero monk use it) plus an adrenal warrior hero maintaining Succor will provide 6 energy regeneration or 6 energy every 3 seconds. I have found this to be very effective. Sure on paper and by itself it looks stupid, but so do other skills.
 * Or Channeling. Or just use an elite slot for Blood is Power. Or prehaps just manage your energy better ;) &mdash; Skuld 12:32, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * In PvE, that kind of Energy maintenance is overkill. ~Soja 8:21 CST 7 December 2006
 * Not neccesarily. There are plenty of higher-level areas in all three games where energy management is critical for a monk to heal properly. Just play in the realm of torment for a while and you'll understand. Jrista 13:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Illusionary Weaponry
To bad this and IW could be used together. It might not end it and would maybe make a decent combo but /sigh, they are both elites.--Eloc jcg 22:06, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm. Mo/Me with arcane mimicry.  Haven't tried this, but I'm slightly intrigued. VegJed 20:24, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * PaH would end as soon as you deal damage with Illusionary Weaponry. --Curse You 21:11, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Tested, attacking with Illusionary Weaponry does not end P&H. Illusionary Weaponry has the same results with the Lightbringer Title, for some reason the game doesn't see it as YOU doing the damage, so it isn't increased. Reversal of Damage, Vengeful Weapon, and Weapon of Remedy also don't trigger on its damage, as they need a targetable source to steal from/return damage to.   Other things I tested with P&H: Balthazar's Aura, Ancestor's Rage, and Retribution. Balthazars Aura will end P&H on the caster, but not on the target, and shows damage numbers for the caster, but not for the enchanted target. Ancestor's will end P&H on the target, but not on the caster, and shows damage numbers for the target. Retribution won't end P&H on either caster or target, damage numbers are shown only for caster. I'd like to assume Holy Wrath is the same as retribution. Kjeron 00:21, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

Where is the LAME tag, I want it now!
Already the PaH monks are coming for me... if I hide under a rock they will never find me! Suckers... ~Readem
 * Hehe, who the hell is this guy? Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:28, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

What makes this crap even worse is that it also ends when I use a targetted heal spell on someone <_<. Axl Geist 21:03, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No it doesn't. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:11, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmmm. It hapened to me while I was ZBing in RA. I'll test it tomorrow, if I remember D:.Axl Geist 21:43, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * ZB and PaH are both elites...I don't see. Whatever, I agree, LAME this skill! M s4 20:35, 8 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I KNOW they're both elites. I was paired with a PaH monk. And I still never got around to testing it D:.Axl Geist 12:48, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Tycn 07:11, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

maybe you ppl should stop adding lame tags and start making builds; each skill has its place in a build...
 * Perhaps you, anonymous, should try and think up a good build that would have synergy. Others have tried and found it just isn't worth the elite slot for subpar energy management while at the same time having restrictions on getting that energy management. --Kale Ironfist 09:46, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

- Pawnzors -
This skill is the pawnzors for healing/protection monks, its not made for dmg dealing builds, but you guys are waaaay too fucked in the head to understand this :]

Anet do NOT change this skill ;] LetoZeth 07:38, 12 May 2007 (CDT)


 * It's pretty obvious that this is not for a damage-dealing build, due to the conditions that make it end prematurely. The reason people don't like it is that even on a protection or healing monk it puts some (admittedly not too dramatic) restrictions on you, but with not that large a benefit. +1 energy regen is nice but hardly makes it efficient energy management, unlike Mantra of Recall or Offering of Blood. Now if it was +2 it would get a lot more use, and in its current form it may get use on some people's bars (I have been known to give it to a hero when taking two monk heroes, as then both can gain benefit from it and it offsets their awful energy management), but overall there are far better monk elites out there and energy management options from secondary professions. RossMM 07:58, 12 May 2007 (CDT)


 * No, its you that is fucked in the head to realize that one energy every 3 seconds is quite possibly one of the slowest ways to gain energy, period. offering of blood at 4 blood magic already gives more energy. M s4 10:19, 12 May 2007 (CDT)
 * ay, whats with the language. 68.229.134.95 22:45, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I actually agree with him. This skill is the "pawnzors". It simple requires everyone to shed their image of Monks as brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage and as peaceful players who help thier party. 1e per 3sec is quite good. It outstrips Mantra of Recall, Healer's Convenant and many other e-management options. Also, free health regen with Mending. Godwin. CSM 17:35, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * At 7 or more inspiration, MoR is more energy (unless you get someone else to cast P&H for you, at which point it's the same energy at 7). Comparing it to covenant is a lot tricker, but if you just consider healing per energy spent, covenant does way better.  I'll ignore your GW-styled Godwin invocation.  --Fyren 17:45, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You confused me there. CSM 15:26, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't know a single person who thinks of Monks as "brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage". Where did you pull that from? No one has that image, and people still think this skill fails miserably. That should tell you something. And as Fyren just said - the numbers don't add up either. Other Energy-management Elite skills commonly used by Monks are just miles better. So: PnH is lame. Except for the guild of course. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:33, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You said it's better energy than mantra of recall. P&H gives you 1e/3s not considering the 5e cost to cast. At 7 inspiration and including the cost to cast, MoR gives you 1e/3s.  If you use covenant, you're probably going to be saving 3e per cast.  You save 3e per cast put lose 1e/3s, so if you cast once every 4.5s, you match P&H's 1e/3s.  --Fyren 15:44, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You guys fail hard at sarcasm. :S CSM 16:18, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. btw you should be logging in to use your signature otherwise sign as an anon. -- Xeon 16:23, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It simply requires everyone to shed their image of Monks as brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage and as peaceful players who help thier party. That part was supposed to be the big hint. Oh well. CSM 16:25, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I guess no one noticed, but it lasts 30 seconds with 0 DF with a recharge of 10, making it useful for Resto Rits too Vainity And Sorrow 01:14, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Restoration rits get a lot more out of AWS than this. The thing is, with 5 cost and 30 duration, this will give a net gain of 5 energy in 30 seconds. Not really a very big boost --Gimmethegepgun 01:24, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I like casting it on two or more monks, it lets your party Monks keep up with pressure! Zulu Inuoe 04:50, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

rofl its like pacifism cept it heals! who here is a trigun fan? i believe this skill should be renamed LOVE AND PEACE!! who else agrees? Darhk 03:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)darhk

Possible synergy?
Thought just occurred to me, thinking of Marnta Doomspeaker - does Zealot's Fire end this? If not, it may be possible to incorporate it into a Smiting build, that uses things like Pacifism, Judge's Insight, and Scourge Healing, aka. a support character, and Divine Favor could be used for healing skills. It's a thought. Still it is a poor choice on Energy management, for the same build you might as well use Channeling or Blessed Signet and stuff. (T/C) 19:28, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Tested, ZF does remove P&H. Also, Pacifism is prot, and both it and Scourge Healing are "target enemy" spells, and would end this anyway --Gimmethegepgun 20:02, 16 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Humm, I wonder why she uses it them...oh well, NPC superpowers ftl. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:39, 22 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah who knows. She sucks anyway --Gimmethegepgun 21:40, 22 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Marnta's build stems from the old skill description for PaH.
 * "For 30...78 seconds, target ally gains +1 energy regeneration. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally attacks or casts a spell that does not target an ally. This is an elite skill."
 * The skill used to not end if you dealt damage, meaning that PBAoE could be used with this skill, since it did not target an enemy. --Curse You 23:03, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It needs a buff, and everyone get a screenie, i'm gonna swear on Gwiki(which i rarely do). This skill is fucking terrible.--Darksyde Never Again 23:18, 16 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I have found that the only smiting skills that can deal damage, and don't cause PaH to end are Reversal of Damage, Retribution and Holy Wrath. However, Retribution defeats the purpose of PaH, since it makes you loose a pip of regen.  Even worse is Holy Wrath, which is totally counter productive, since it causes you to loose energy every time it causes damage. --Curse You 04:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Peace and Harmony & Hero AI
Monk heroes should use this on other monks, but they don't. That sucks.
 * I noticed the same thing, they only like to cast it on themselves and very rarely onto a Restoration Rit...you gotta force them manually to cast it, and that kinda ruins the whole "Easy PvE Energy Management" thing. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:26, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

Team where it's worth it?
Say you're in a team with am Illusionary Weaponer, Minion Master, and Binding Ritualist; you're a heal spam monk choosing an elite. Do you think you MIGHT consider bringing P&H? It could be used on your whole party...
 * Umm, no. There are still much better choices out there for a healing monk elite skill.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 22:20, 8 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm not sure, but I think IW would end PnH since you are still doing "damage". Others would have to be extra-careful to never ever wand a foe accidentally.
 * Other than that, yes, you could cast this on the entire party for +1 Energy regeneration. But! I have a better idea. Just take a full Adrenaline Warrior (or Paragon), and have them cast Succor. One War/Para can support two casters and another War/Para - if two people cast it on each other they negate the Energy degen and both gain +1 Health regen. -1 Energy from spellcasting is not important since they're full Adrenal...it is a permanent Enchant and so never expires...it won't end if you do damage...et cetera.
 * PnH just sucks, not much way around it. Even if you're only talking about Energy management for yourself and no one else, there are better things. Boon Signet or Healer's Covenant or Healer's Boon or Air of Enchantment or...ZB...I dunno...just so many better options. The only reason I'd ever consider PnH is if I was only Core/Prophecies, since then those other Elites are not available. But even still. Good monks use Signet of Devotion for Energy management. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:26, 8 September 2007 (CDT)


 * The real use of this skill is not in raw energy per second, but if you are having trouble keeping energy up and find yourself at >5 energy for any extended period of time, PnH is superior. Why? Casting any other energy management can only be done once every X seconds, where PnH is constant energy flow, all the time. So you will be at 4 pips and casting a 5-energy spell every 4 or so seconds, whereas with PnH you are casting the same spells every 3 seconds. Thats a big difference. PnH is alot better when you're under pressure.
 * Except that you kinda need to be a pretty bad monk to constantly be at 5 energy or less, and that PnH is still just shatter fodder. Besides, the 2 best monk energy management skills are signets: Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet --Gimmethegepgun 20:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

name
yeah this skill should deffinatly be renamed love and peace, trigun fans accross the world will pee thier pants!! OR better idea, make a paragon chant called "love and peace!" it will give all teammates within earshot a 75% chance to block all attacks and makes all your attacks unmissable! Darhk 03:50, 5 October 2007 (UTC)darhk