Talk:Area of effect skills quick reference

should be renamed to Area of effect skills quick reference. Should include positive and negative effects. Should call target column range of effect. Should distinguish between point blank and ranged (which should cover diff between targetted and not targetted except what about starburst and balthazar's aura...). and between pulsing and single hit. I would say that the structure of this needs some thought. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 18:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Skills to consider when working on structure: Nature Rituals Binding Rituals (areas of effect but not damage), offensive item spells (such as Grasping Was Kuurong, Star Burst (targeted but also touch range), Throw Dirt (only applies condition), Glimmering Mark and Incendiary Bonds (targets one person but the effect affects an area), Balthazar's Aura (radiates from target), Earthshaker (only KDs), Heal Area (positive effect), Phoenix (affects area around caster and target), Liquid Flame and Blinding Surge (don't always affect area), Preservation (binding ritual but only has small area). Wells and Wards (passive area effect), Shouts and Chants (earshot area). How should these all be shown? This article shouldn't be using "damage output". &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 18:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I can safely say that pulsing aoes are separate group. They are either one target or untargeted. They have a set duration and area. Moving out of the area will remove you from the effect. Since I'm not sure yet how much overlap it would have with other qrs in this group, I won't separate them with a different template yet. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 19:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * What about Chain Lightning, Arc Lightning, Invoke Lightning, Lava Arrows? Are they AoE?
 * Stuff like Balthazar's Aura, Searing Heat, Sandstorm are DoTAoE, and thus should be in a separate page imo.
 * Nature/Binding Rituals indeed have an AoE, but they are clearly different than AoE here. They should get separate pages, too.
 * GwK is AoE, period..
 * Throw Dirt? Dunno. Suppose it is AoE, it's like Star Burst, which is clearly AoE.
 * Earth Shaker has an AoE effect, so, same as TDirt.
 * Heal Area is a PBAoE heal. Could be on this page too, or separate. Idk...
 * Conditional AoE is still AoE. Just add under notes "only if X, else Y"
 * Wells and Wards, I have no idea really.
 * Shouts and Chants could be categorised here, I suppose. Although Chants only trigger if X happens. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  10:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Chain Lightning and the rest do have certain range in which they'll strike multiple foes, but not every enemy within that range. Lava Arrows is as much AoE as Volley. DoTAoE counts AoE as much as the others... Healing Burst, Healing Ring and Heal Area all have positive AoE effect on allies, they should be mentioned here, even though if someone's looking for info about AoE, he's prob'ly going for those more harmful skills. Shouts and Chants all (?) have a same range, so I don't think they're actually AoE stuff to be listed here.

Smite Hex+Condition also have AoE damage on condition... I can't add all the stuff right now, I'm on laggy computer and at work. J Striker 11:02, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget things like Clumsiness and Suffering which is what i was looking for when i came here. --mLegion 10:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I also noticed that Good ol' Lingering Curse isnt on the list. Im not good enough with wiki formatting to attempt such a thing myself. Shadowshear 19:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

What about..
..cleaning this page, at least to get rid of those and  thingies. I think there are two options: Preferences, anyone ? -- -- ( talk ) 11:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Go for a less informative (no target or damage column) like PBAoE, although it would require more typing
 * 2) Include target and damage descriptions in all mentioned skills. In some cases this would be hard to think about what to fill in in those fields..
 * I suggest removing only damage column. Target/range should be left cause we're talking about Area of Effect here.Damage on the other hand is very easily modified by attribute ranks, armor values and so on. And less informativeness would be better, that's why we have pages for those abbrevations. J Striker 11:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've added all target info on skill templates as good as I could. However, removing damage from table isn't that easy, probably have to copy used template to new one without damage (and notes about damage). I'll be back :) -- -- ( talk ) 08:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I found a crufty hack in Mediawiki:Common.css that let me hide the empty columns. Enjoy! --◄mendel► 13:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ooh...nice hack :) thanks again Mendel ! -- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 14:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Target
Ok, 2 things: 1) I think we need to standardize how we describe the targets. 2) I think we might need a secondary parameter that describes secondary target (Death Nova targets ally, but damages adjacent foes). --JonTheMon 13:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * As much as I can figure out, target= always names the target of the main effect of the spell, not necessarily the person that the caster has to target. (Another example of this is Balthazar's Aura.)
 * What parameter names to use has all depended (so far, in tried-and-true "making it up as you go" incremental development extreme programming style) on the QR that the data was needed for. A slightly outdated list of all parameters in use (I think there has been a new QR or two done since I compiled it) is in Template:Skill_box_data. There probably ought to be a more systematic documentation of these.
 * So for Death Nova, since it's an enchantment, it is implied that the caster targets an ally, and target= gives whom it it's, and that should be "foes adjacent to ally". For Burning Speed, there is also

durationuntilend = 5s effectifitendsprematurely = Yes targetend = Adjacent foes effectonending = adjacent foes are set on fire for 3...8 seconds
 * So maybe you want to add those to Death Nova?
 * Smite Condition, on the other hand, probably lacks a "damagetarget=foes in the area", but you'd better check the QRs it's used in after you change that. :-P --◄mendel► 22:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, you say target should be the target of the main effect of the spell. What about, say, Hearty of Fury?  The "main effect" is IAS (so targetting self), but the AoE secondary effect is the burning (targetting  adjacent foes). --JonTheMon 13:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You describe exactly what is written in Template:Heart of Fury. :-D --◄mendel► 06:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I suggest splitting Target into 2 columns: Target and Area Of Effect. Target is the target (duh!) which means a (single) foe, ally, or location. Area Of Effect is the size of the area of effect. Even with this separation, describing skills such as Spirit Rift would be problematic due to the required target being different from the "ground zero" of the affected area, but those would be the exception. Are there any skills which have 2 effects which are both AoE areas and they have different "ground zeros" (Shockwave has a single ground zero)? --Doodle01 04:04, 16 July 2009 (UTC) On another note, AoE is a broad category and IMHO things like DoTAoE and PBAoE all belong here, even if those have different pages as well. On the other hand it's not 100% pure AoE if it doesn't affect the whole area so I could see not including skills like Barrage, Volley, Invoke Lightning, Arc Lightning and Depravity even though an area is part of the description of the effect. --Doodle01 04:04, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Barrage is all targets in the foe's adjacent zone. It's kinda like Fireball, really. That's the problem.
 * Other than that: I like the Target/AoE split. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  09:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We need to answer two questions:
 * Who do I cast this on?
 * Who takes damage?
 * -- ◄mendel► 22:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Target would be the first. AoE refers to the damage (or healing, condition application..).
 * I just noticed there's one trap missing in the list: Healing Spring. This 'only' lists damage AoEs. Should we include healing et all, too, or split it up in 2 QRs? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  11:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)