Talk:Defensive Anthem

read the description aloud... each party member HAVE? idk if its supposed to be all party members or each has... plz fixFrvwfr2 21:49, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

nerf stick
the fact they made this skill an elite is despicable. it's worse than aegis in almost every way except for the fact it's not an enchantment. the 5 second less recharge is balanced by the fact aegis can easily be countered--Coldeye 00:56, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, it costs less than Aegis, factoring in the Leadership bonus, but... Yeah, it's a bit of a nuisance.  Aegis lasts as long per rank, and can be buffed by enchanting mods.  Defensive Anthem was a superb non-elite, but now it's a mediocre elite.  Still, one must keep in mind that you can't compare skills between professions.  It's been said, since the creation of elites, that elites are not always strictly better than anything, so much as they may allow you to do things a profession wouldn't normally be able to do.  Case in point, paragon doesn't block/evade things, and Defensive Anthem allows them to, and all without leaving Leadership, which is a rather good skill line.  I run it fairly often because I don't really like many of the other great non-elites that ended up becoming elite. Merengue 17:49, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It does cost less than aegis factoring in leadership bonus, but you have to also consider the fact that paragon has 2 pips of regen(which is why we have leadership bonus).
 * Also, the new mesmer skill Mirror of Disenchantment might make Aegis less viable
 * True, this allows paragons to block, but if you were in, say, a GvG, wouldn't you just bring along an Aegis monk instead of a Defensive Anthem Paragon? In PvE, it's harder to say so, but I do believe you can usually compare elites across classes, especially in PvP. DancingZombies [[Image:Aura_of_the_Lich.jpg|24px]] 00:01, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Hey, it counts toward the title....but then again, it sucks. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.49.206 (contribs).

Lol, I love the notes "Seems rather useless compared to Aegis". This skill screaaaaams for a buff. It would be really nice if it had an adrenaline cost with a short recharge (similar to Lyric of Zeal) instead. --Ufelder 02:37, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Pretty weak for an elite... it's basically a cheaper and weaker version of Aegis that got the elite tag stuck on it. Skyreal 19:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

With the Rit item spell that increases shout durations, this can last a fair amount longer than Aegis. Still needs a buff, though.

Don't sue me or Entropy --Gimmethegepgun 12:18, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * The range difference with Aegis no longer applies, as Aegis has been altered to "earshot" range in the August '07 updates. However, Aegis had its cost reduced to 10e.  At 12 Leadership, and with a party size of 6 or more, a paragon will get a max of 6 energy back from this skill, for a net cost of 9 energy.  So, for the sake of 1 energy difference, Aegis still beats this skill as attack skills don't remove it, and it is not an elite.  Countesscorpula - August 17, 2007


 * Zomg, I totally agree with this tag. What an utterly useless skill. It might be good for...uh...running. XD Entropy 20:49, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Running = Steady Stance on a Paragon (assuming Drok run) or Charge (in tandem with Fall Back) --Gimmethegepgun 23:09, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Well? --Gimmethegepgun 23:33, 14 February 2007 (CST)

The improve skill template should also specify if those improvements are of OR type or AND type. Obviously in this case, you'd want ONE of these changes, in some other case you'd want all the changes on the list. --Spura 10:07, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Done! Thanks for your suggestion. Entropy 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * This is like a skill that works for casters which dont use attack skills. And the Rit Speed buff is stupid because monks with aegis have blessed aura to do the same, AND it's in their own profession. Does Anet want all para's to have secondary Rit or something? I hope they buff the Para next chapter, like they did with the Ritualist after NF came out. (Frizz 11:16, 3 March 2007 (CST))


 * IMO 75% block is overpowered, it's extremely unrealistic to counter shouts and 75% is just rock-paper-scissors with teams like r-spike. I would rather see it lowered to 25% and the duration:recharge buffed considerably (so 1 paragon can keep it up 80% of the time) or it made non-elite. I do think with its current stats it would be a bit too good as a non-elite. Phool 10:21, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * 25% block is quite a good idea as it wouldn't be worth chaining it like how Incoming was abused. 132.203.83.38 18:08, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Mmm, it may not be as good as Aegis, but it does help that you get energy back from each person affected, making this a 10 energy or less skill. If you consider that, it might be somewhat playable...

Apparently you guys don't play Guild Wars? this is an unstrippable aegis. Aegis is already overpowered. GG? --Thom Bangalter 17:11, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

Yea I dont know if I agree w. lame status. Aegis is really only effective on spellcasters anyways since the mele attackers have high armor... Then there are the benefits of this being unstrippable, and this can be kept up more often than Aegis in the long run-- Thelordofblah 20:24, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

You have to understand this lame tag was added a long time ago when most if not everyone agreed that this elite sucks. Now this skill has become useful since people started bringing mirror of disenchantment to remove aegis. Also don't forget the all paragon builds in gvg and ha that use this. I think we have to remove the lame tags so what say you?--Hundbert 08:44, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * It hasn't actually been CHANGED in order to make it decent, others lost the LAME tag because they WERE changed (namely Otyugh's Cry). This is only going up in popularity because of the meta. Who knows, Mending might actually end up in the meta again someday, knowing what people are like.... and will also be the day I take a nice 2 month vacation from GW.... but it would still be fitting of the tag --Gimmethegepgun 23:30, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * It's more that the paragon has very few elites to effect a party that would be considered useful (this and Crippling anthem really). 76.102.172.202 00:42, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

OMG, the update just made this elite worse /cry.

I agree. From barely playable to unplayable. Anet hates Paragons, while they should be nerfing their pet dervishes who are the ones that are overpowered.
 * Apparently they think paragons are really overpowered in PVP. People were chaining these. jhu 22:02, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

this elite is so good in HA why is everyone complaining. It isn't an enchantment, bypasses NR and Tranq, and works good with 2 paras in a balance team.

Wow, seriously, if you think this elite is bad you need to be less horrible at the game. Which I know is quite a task for the vast majority of you. It is by far one of the stronger paragon elites in both PVE and PVP, in particular in HA where there aren't really many other paragon elites you would run over this at all. Just stop sucking everyone, please. This needs to lose it's LAME tag immediately and people need to be less bad at Guild Wars. Wow: * Remove Elite status. * Increase Block chance to 75%, like many other defensive skills now have. * Increase duration or decrease recharge to a more acceptable ratio. Can you possibly me more stupid and horrible at game mechanics. Unbelievable Yesitsrob 02:28, 24 July 2007 (CDT)


 * The skill is pathetic in comparison to Aegis in every manner except that it isn't an enchantment and will get an energy return from Leadership. Every other part of it is outshined by Aegis. Also, please break GW:NPA more, amazingly insulting people shouldn't be allowed on the wiki --Gimmethegepgun 02:37, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * But he is right, and the ignorant need to actually use this skill to see just how good it is.
 * It would be hopeless for me to argue but whatever. I will however appologize for being "insulting" first off. The fact that it is unremovable is absolutely huge, and a lot more huge than you seem to realise. Such things have the PVP community wanting a nerf on Ward of Melee for such reasons. Aegis only really works at stopping pressure when it comes to PVP, spikes are largely assisted my enchant removal which at times will cause the Aegis to work against you. There is very little you can do against a Defensive Anthem except for interrupting it and skills like Rigor Mortis, Expose Defenses, or Way of the Fox to name a few - with those skills not being all that practical in competitive play. As far as Aegis goes it's an amazing skill, don't get me wrong here, but it does not come close to out classing Defensive Anthem, like I say - you really are overlooking just how key it being unremovable is. Yesitsrob 02:55, 24 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Bring a choking gas ranger on your team with aegis and well see how easy it is to remove. Then it easily beats defensive anthem in every single way. The fact is, having this be elite, earshot-range only, AND end on attack skill use, along with the inability to lengthen its duration with enchanting mods easily makes it worse than aegis. --Gimmethegepgun 03:06, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you elaborate a bit on your first sentence about the choking gas ranger. I'm not quite sure what you are implying. Yesitsrob 03:11, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah because its impossible to time a <1 second cast time to enchantment removal with a choking gas ranger on the opposing team. You guys are just bad at the game and should stop wasting your time writing about the skill.
 * From his wording of it I was under the impression he was actually bringing the Aegis on the ranger, which I thought sounded too stupid... but thinking a choking gas ranger will shutdown a 1s enchant removal with fast casting is pretty dumb too. Yesitsrob 04:09, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you serious about a choking gas ranger? Seriously, you need to play PVP more - this is used almost all the time in a balanced builds with dual paragons.  It's unremovable, and in HA, it costs barely 10 energy which is nothing for your paragons (who don't use that much, thanks to Leadership).  Having your monks cast it puts a strain on their energy management.  Putting a 15c spell off your monk is amazing.  Also, if you're going to say to put Aegis on another character, I'm just going to laugh because you'd need to invest in Prot, so you'd end up being a monk anyway (except in GvG with a runner).  Plus, in HA, you should be in earshot at all times of your midline if you're a good balanced team.  So, to sum it all up, this skill is amazing, I don't know why it's classified as LAME.  Really, what are your other elite choices for Paragon?  Incoming?  Cruel Spear?  It's just a flesh wound?  There are so many better alternatives, e.g. Defensive Anthem =) Lutz 22:17, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

This skill sucks. *ducks from incoming namecalling* (T/C) 15:23, 29 July 2007 (CDT)


 * How does this suck? It is less energy than aegis considering leadership, puts less strain on monks, and is irremovable.  Has anyone in this discussion ever even played PvP????  PvE scrubbery=ftl


 * It's decent when the backliners get it, but for the frontliners it's completely worthless (unlike Aegis) because the attack skill wll remove it in an instant. And you must remember that Paragons have half the energy regen of Monks and so the lessened energy cost doesn't mean a whole lot --Gimmethegepgun
 * Paragons have the best energy management in the game hands down. Also, this skill is one of the most common ones to run on a paragon in HA etc. nowadays. I really think the lame tag should be removed.Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:25, 3 August 2007 (CDT) Forgot to sign


 * LAME tags are only removed if ANet changed it so it isn't LAME any more like they did with Otyugh's Cry. They didn't change anything about this skill to make it used, it's just metagame (beware the flesh-eating meta-gamers!) --Gimmethegepgun 16:27, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The skill was used a lot, right after Incoming got nerfed (since clearly at the time that was the better choice and is now rather junk) - This really feels like teaching GWO posters how to play. zzzz. The comment about Paragon's not having the energy management monks have, just wow, no offense but way to just prove you really don't have a clue. _Anyone_ who has played any proper competitive PVP, not just me, can _easily_ see the strength of this skill. People who have not might want to stop spreading their misinformation and incorrectness. It's not an opinion that this skill is very good and usable, it's a solid fact - especially in Heroes Ascent more than anywhere else. So stop using Fort Aspenwood and Random Arenas as a means of deciding how good a skill is. Yesitsrob 08:51, 6 August 2007 (CDT)


 * How often are frontliners targeted? I think this is easily compensated for by 80+ armor.  And I'm sure if they're getting heavily attacked they will not use an attack skill.  Thats like saying frenzy is bad, when frenzy is great if you have a cancel stance and/or half a brain.

You people disgust me. Arrogance isn't a deadly sin, but it should be. (T/C) 01:57, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * LMAO? What's more disgusting is calling this "one of the worst skills in the game". Seriously, anyone who says that has no clue about GvG.  This skill was supremely overpowered before it got nerfed and is still a viable Elite. Zuranthium 11:08, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Coincidentally, my definition of arrogance includes pretending to have a clue what you're talking about when you say things like "Defensive Anthem is bad". --Edru viransu 19:54, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

3 words: Vocal. Was. Sogolon. --Carmine 11:30, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What the hell for? That's just a waste of attribute points. --Kale Ironfist 19:47, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah... VwS is bad. Not being able to chuck spears to make up for the energy cost = major energy problems. - Auron 19:50, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

Well, this just shows that a LAME-tag has no significance whatsoever. A.Saturnus 04:52, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

Legoway
Legoway w/ Para DA = <3

lol
This definately isn't lame in anyway. For spike groups this is great, melee should be the only ones attack besides rangers and paragons but they have more armor then spell casters. But the biggest is this is unremovable, unlike aegis which isn't, at all. --The Gates Assassin 21:10, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * and aegis is also not elite....defensive anthem is pretty poor overall, as its only good for half your team yet still takes ur elite. Aegis is now also 10 energy so its better overall. Aegis could be run on a para if u rly had to. or, run them both. &mdash; ~ Soqed Hozi ~  18:16, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Defensive Anthem is unquestionably superior to Aegis in PvP. --Edru viransu 21:33, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * And why is that? Mirror of Disenchantment? Wow, a counter! (Oh noes, now we get to repeat the same damn argument all over again) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:12, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * In addition, Aegis gives your enemy an additional ~100 damage from shatter on spikes. It's the general unremovability of DAnthem that makes it so good. Also, it's a para elite, so there's no real reason not to bring it if you're running a para. --Edru viransu 13:54, 17 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah i was just thinking about this today, what's to say your party can't cool it on the attack skills while you heal up after a spike, or heavy hit? It gives the monks a break for a bit, it will pretty much never end on a spellcaster, and physical attackers can still do some damage even w/o attack skills(though generally not a whole lot). I think the L.A.M.E. Tag should be removed. And keep in mind that this can be boosted as well as boost many other Paragon skills.--Darksyde Never Again 20:42, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
 * This skill is simply godly in HM, especially if you have both Hayda and Morghan who can use this quite well --Blue.rellik 11:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Imbagons are godly. The only weak link is the players too stupid to use good skills. - Auron 01:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Auron, now you may need a slight amount of ability to manage energy to paragon effectively now, with the nerf to the main energy management shouts for paras. --Edru viransu 01:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

put simply
If you think this skill is baed, you are r0 (if you are higher you got it by gimmick) and/or have never been laddered and/or fail at gw mechanics. This assrapes Aegis. Aegis is shatter food which will add more damage in a spike and provide no blocking in the spike because, well, its just been shattered. DA makes alot of the members in your party near unspikable for its duration, and your frontliners have 80->96AL anyway. 81.159.13.223 11:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Aegis died and I forgot to remove the LAME tag. >.> (T/C) 15:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Well you'd use this over Aegis because it can't be removed whatsoever. It's already in a popular Paragon build and a popular team. --Guild of Deals 20:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The old Aegis wasn't restricted to earshot, and that was pretty hardcore in retrospect, making an earshot anthem weaksauce in the shadow of party-wide blockery.--Carmine 00:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Defensive Anthem will stay as it is as long as GvG is around.--[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 15:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Addressing the NERF
This skill get's its ass kicked by Aegis, hands down. I don't even care about the fact that it's "non-removable" or whatever. Aegis costs less and isn't an Elite. Who would use this, and why does ANet constantly remove skills that could be useful elites from the Paragon profession??? Dagotta 00:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Making this non elite would make it a worthy alternative to aegis: You'd gain unremovable status at the cost of only working for spellcasters. Alternatively they could make it not end when you attack, thus making it an eltie aegis. Or they could make it behave asa it currently does, but make it maintainable. As it is the tradeoff (untrippable) does not justify the penalties (Elite, ends on attack) --94.76.168.216 12:03, October 7, 2009 (UTC)