Talk:Ogre

There are some unique nasties in Urgoz's Warren. I've heard talk of vampires and ghouls. Maybe there are ogres too.
 * I think that Ogres are a real thing. We have ogre slaying mods and shields with additional armor against ogres. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|User:Gem]] 10:37, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * has anyone ever seen any foe related to an ogre? maybe this is ANETs idea of a big joke on the user community. --Honorable Sarah 12:07, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * What about furnace guardians in SF? Just a thought. --Vortexsam 01:35, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
 * They are giants Skuld  01:42, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Wikipedia describes Oni as being demons or ogres. Since Factions Dragons are of the eastern type, is it likely that its "Ogres" are too? Of course, there would still be the similarly vexatious question of the weapon mods vs Demons Pingping 00:39, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Doubt it Skuld  01:42, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

The Factions strategy guide says that Ettins and Yeti are Ogres. What's the wiki's policy on using information from strategy guides? -- Gordon Ecker 23:44, 1 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The wiki has no policy on this, but the general consensus is that information from strategy guides should be treated with maximum suspicion. If you have an Ogreslaying mod or an Ogre-Slaying Knife, why not have a little tete-a-tete with an Ettin? &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 00:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I just tested it, and the ogre slaying knife does more damage to Ettins in Nebo Terrace and Yetis in Jaya Bluffs than a 5-6 damage sword, while the sword does more damage to Giants in Thirsty River, Trolls in Silverwood or Summit Giant Herders in Thunderhead Keep. -- Gordon Ecker 16:50, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * This is not a proper test. Here is the test: Get a melee weapon and an upgrade "of Ogre slaying" for it. Go to the perspective Ettin and hit him with "Wild Blow" and note down the damage, then apply the upgrade to the weapon and do it again. If you get a higher number then Ettins are Ogres. What Wild Blow does is it guarantees the damage will be maximum. Right now, you can't use the Knife of Ogre slaying because you can't remove the Ogre slaying upgrade from it and you can't replicate it's damage range. You need to be using the EXACT same weapon against Ettins and non-Ettins and you need to be able to use it with and without the upgrade. --Karlos 19:44, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I reverted till you (or someone else) can confirm this. The fact that you listed Oni there makes me tend to believe your findings are not accurate. --Karlos 19:49, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I disagree with your analysis. A 5-6 damage sword will never do more than 6 * sqrt(2) = 8.48 (before armor) damage against an ettin. The Ogre-Slaying Knife will never do less than 9 damage against an ogre (+damage ignores armor). Ten whacks against one with both weapons will easily tell you whether you're hitting an ogre or not. 70.20.109.198 19:57, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You're ignoring the effect of armor, lower armor will augment the 5-6 more than the 1-4. Also, I'd like the readings, i.e. the Ogre slaying knife did: A, B, C and D damage in 4 tries while the sword did W, X, Y and Z. However, Wild blow is still the best measure. --Karlos 20:32, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I just tested it again, this time with Wild Blow, an Ogre Slaying Knife and a 3-5 damage sword. The results for the ogre slaying knife were 9 damage against a Wild Yeti in Jaya Bluffs and an Ettin in Nebo Terrage. The results for the 3-5 damage sword were 3 damage against the same Yeti and Ettin. I also tested the weapons against various control targets including the target dummies (which confirmed that the 1-4 damage range on the knife is correct) and the 3-5 damage sword got higher damage against everything except the ettin and yeti. I can see no reason why a proven 1-4 damage (confirmed on a AL 6 target dummy) slashing (confirmed on an aloe) weapon with a damage bonus against ogres would have consistently higher damage than a 3-5 damage slashing weapon against anything other than ogres. I think that's good enough to classify them as ogres. As for the oni comment, the word is often translated into English as ogre, see Skuld's comment, Ogre and Oni. -- Gordon Ecker 23:08, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, Karlos, you missed the key statement "+damage ignores armor". I agree with anon. Whatever the ogre's armor level, an OSK will never deal less than 9 damage. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 12:17, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You're all assuming the ogre-slaying knife does what it says it does. Yeti's are ogres and I came to that conclusion with an ogre-slaying mod on a bow (had one bow that delt 26 max damage with the ogre slaying mod and one that delt 28 without it and the ogre slaying mod one delt much higher damage critical hits - and higher damage overall).  I junked the bow when I thought I wouldnt need it again (boy was I wrong) but I guess I'll retest on Ettins, and anything else that might be considered an ogre once I get one again.  That should be soon considering I get these mods all the time. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  13:22, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, the above test with Wild Blow on Yetis is good enough for me. Can you also try it on Trolls (all varieties), and then confirm this test on Ettins (all varieties), Oni, Minotaurs (all varieties), Giants (which I suspect will not be Ogres because they have their own slaying mod).
 * Keep the findings here and once we know exactly what the scope is, perhaps we can actually put together a relationship. Thanks Gordon. --Karlos 13:52, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You're displaying skepticism where none need exist. The hypothesis is that +damage ignores armor. This hypothesis has already been validated for skills. This hypothesis predicts that OSKs will deal min 9 damage to certain creatures ("Ogres"); this prediction is obviously falsifiable. Experiments show that certain creatures ("Ogres") suffer min 9 damage from an OSK. Experiment verifies prediction, so validates the theory. Corollary: the creatures that suffer min 9 damage are Ogres. To argue against this theory you must provide falsifying data, or construct a competing theory that also explains all the available evidence and makes falsifiable predictions. 128.2.206.194 14:16, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Pray tell, what in the blazes are you talking about? I do know that +dmg is armor ignoring. Please do not hold me to a presumption made by Stabber which will take us off course. Yes, a +9 weapon will do a minimum of 10 (I assume weapons do not do zero dmg), my whole point up there was that the 5-6 weapon MIGHT do 10 dmg against a foe with low enough armor. Therefore obscuring the results. That's why I said ignoring the effect of armor is wrong. Have you seen how much your max dmg weapon does against the Charr or other low level foes? So, yes, the knife will do "bla bla" damage, I don't care, my point was the non-knife weapon against a low armor foe (not AL 60) will do above average dmg. And since we don't know the AL of what he is using the weapon against, he SHOULD use Wild Blow. Get the picture? --Karlos 16:05, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * My comment above was in response to Chuiu's comment, not yours. 128.2.206.194 16:08, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * We know that +damage from skills is armor ignoring, and that -damage from skills and equipment is armor ignoring. I don't think anyone has tested whether +damage vs creature type, which is only available from the ogre slaying knife and a handful of non-max crafter weapons. I'm about to test this. -- Gordon Ecker 20:47, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * And I just confirmed that +damage vs creature type is not armor ignoring. I'll post the details on Talk:Damage. -- Gordon Ecker 22:44, 3 June 2006 (CDT)