Talk:Deep Wound

Comments
Ranger condition removal is not here
 * What? --Fyren 09:00, 24 October 2005 (EST)
 * I think he means Antidote signet, which does NOT cure deep wound.

Can anyone confirm the latst anon. edit? --Karlos 06:13, 4 November 2005 (EST)

Quote: It also reduces healing used on that player by 20% Can anyone confirm that this is (still?) in effect? It does not appear documented anywhere. --Bishop 04:37, 27 February 2006 (CST)
 * Yup, the article is correct. You can test this yourself by healing the Student of Deep Wounds in the Isle of the Nameless. I just tried it out. My monk's Orison of Healing heals the Student of Bleeding for 135, but the Student of Deep Wounds for only 92. &mdash; Stabber 05:56, 27 February 2006 (CST)
 * Incredible. Especially since that is a reduction of ~31%, not just 20%, assuming your numbers are accurate (which I do). That makes Deep Wounds far better at reducing healing than several of the other skills that do only that -- probably worth a note in the main article. --Bishop 08:42, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * My numbers were, in fact, wrong. Here are the correct numbers: [[Image:BleedingHeal.jpg]] and [[Image:DeepWoundsHeal.jpg]]. &mdash; Stabber 08:58, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * Fair enough. Working those numbers gives 115 and 92 respectively, meaning a reduction of 23 points, also known as precisely 20%. You have, in fact, thoroughly confirmed the 20% reduction. (Personally, I still find that superior to the necromancer alternatives -- but I suppose they stack...) --Bishop 09:08, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * The less benefit from healing is documented in the game... mouse-over the deep wound icon when you have it. It just doesn't specify the 20% less benefit. -PanSola 05:35, 27 February 2006 (CST)

Might also be worthwhile to mention the (perhaps obvious) fact that since it doesn't also decrease the damage a wounded target receives, this condition in effect increases applied damage by 20% while the deep wound is in effect, as long as you finish off the target before the condition either expires or is removed. --Semantic 00:40, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

after recovery from deepwound
Let's say I had 300/500 health to begin with. I suffer from deep wound, which drops my health to 200/400. Assuming I am attacking things but take no damage, so there is no natural healing etc, then when the deep wound expires, is my health 200/500 or 300/500? - 06:23, 8 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Your calculation is wrong, if you have 300/500 health and you get hit with deep would your maximum health (assuming you are level 20) drops to x/380 (you lose 120 health which is 20% of 480). Deep wound ALWAYS loweres the maximum health of level 20 player characters by 120.--Draygo Korvan 11:13, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * So a lv20 55 monk with deep wound will have max health of 1? Ouch.  BTW, 20% of 480 = 96, not 120.  So either something else is wrong (your 120 loss isn't really because reduction is based off 480 health), or you just calculated the 120 by hand because you know it's going to be based off 480. - 11:20, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * I should run some further tests and clarify this article up. I think it is calculated after DP too. (which means if your max health is increased 10% by a moral boost you lose more than 96 maximum health). --Draygo Korvan 11:25, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * For PanSola's original question: Your health is adjusted again when the effect expires. In your example, you would end up at 300/500. This is true of any effect that alters your max hit points, up or down; e.g., Endure Pain wearing off can (nearly) kill you.
 * As for the other question, I just ran some tests on an L20:
 * (naked) 480 -> 384 = 20% of 480 reduced
 * (1 sup rune) 405 -> 324 = 20% of 405 reduced
 * (+20 hp armor) 500 -> 400 = 20% of 500 reduced
 * (+35 hp armor, sup vigor) 565 -> 465 = 20% of 500 reduced ???
 * (+35 hp armor, sup vigor, +30 hp wpn) 595 -> 495 = 20% of 500 reduced ???
 * (naked, 15% DP) 408 -> 327 = 20% of 408 reduced
 * So it seems it uses your current max HP, including all mods (i.e., a 55 monk would be reduced to 44), but there is hard cap at -100 hp?
 * -- 66.92.33.187 11:53, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Interesting, so I'm wrong in my assumtion here as far as max health goes. its truely 500-400 as you say. but a -100 cap, interesting. That calls for further testing. I suggest sticking Vital Blessing on a character and applying the Deep Wound.--Draygo Korvan 12:06, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Two more tests:
 * (naked, +250 fertile season, then DW) 480 -> 730 -> 630
 * (naked, DW, then +250 fertile season) 480 -> 384 -> 630
 * So again, it always uses current max hp, apparently always at the end of the calculation regardless of effect order, and apparently up to a maximum of -100 hp (or level * 5 or something).
 * -- 66.92.33.187 12:11, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Interesting, I would say this is sufficient proof to add it to the article itself, that deep wound caps out at 100 maximum health lost for level 20 characters. --Draygo Korvan 12:16, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Very good at noting "for level 20 characters". Anyone got a free character slot to check Deep Wound cap on non-level 20 characters?  I don't )-: - 15:38, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Well the problem with checking &lt; lvl 20 characters is that it would require you to get that &lt;20 character above 500 HP in order to see if the cap is level related... --Draygo Korvan 14:08, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * No, it would just require you to get the character above the cap*5 which should be easy enough. Symbiosis ftw. --Heurist 07:46, 5 November 2006 (CST)

Deep Wound and health degeneration
Does anyone know for sure how these two mechanics interact? I've done some testing after seeing some strange practice dummy behavior, and degenerative conditions don't appear to take Deep Wound into account. To test this, simply strip and stand between the students of deep wound and bleeding. Once you get to 1 hp, you should remain standing for approximately 16 more seconds, which is exactly how long you would last if you had max health. I've seen suggestions that the deep wound doesn't really 'take effect' until you take direct damage after the wound is applied, but I think I've disproved that theory on practice dummies - at least in so far as degen is concerned. One interesting note, if you switch to a health modifying weapon (even +health) while at 1 hp and degen, you will immediately die.

My original test consisted of this assassin combo on a target dummy:
 * Seeping Wound
 * Iron Palm
 * Falling Spider
 * Twisting Fangs

Any target dummy will remain standing for a few seconds after appearing to run out of health. This fact does not change if you give the target an additional strike after the Deep Wound is applied.

--Semantic 07:17, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * In reference to the Deep Wound not dying problem, I found the following quote taken from the Health Degeneration article on GW Gamewiki:

"Reduction of maximum health cannot, however, reduce a creature to below 1 current health."


 * This seems to me like the problem is the interaction between the Deep Wound, degeneration and Health is the order in which they are logically applied.


 * It seems to me like what must be happening is that at every instant, the Degeneration is subtracting from the regular maximum health value, so decreasing from 100 to 98 health in one second for instance, and then AFTER that, the Deep Wound is applied, which reduces the health from 98 to 1 health, as the Deep Wound can not reduce a creature to below 1 current health.


 * Thus, as degeneration is constantly taking from the invisible normal hit points, which are only later reduced by Deep Wound, the degeneration itself will not allow health to reach 0 until the invisible non-Deep Wound health reaches 0. It will simply stay at 1 health, as long as the targets non-reduced normal health value stays between 100 and 0 hit points.


 * To solve this, they need to get the Deep Wound to apply before degenerative effects, meaning that from 100 Hit points, the players health is reduced to 1 by the Deep Wound, and THEN the degeneration lowers that from 1 to -1, killing the target. 70.64.104.35 12:15, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * This would explain a lot. I should let the degen run out before adding a D/W then.  Otherwise, the only benefit from D/W is the reduced healing since the health reduction won't matter while under health degen from what you are saying.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  14:50, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

New Skills..
We need to add the new skills that cause Deep Wound there. I am not a student of skills and conditions myself, but I think Accumulated Pain is one. --Karlos 15:47, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

"The visual indicator for Deep Wound is a small downward facing brown arrow on the enemy's health bar."

Isnt that the same indicator for ALL conditions? And if so, shouldnt it be removed so people dont htink they have deepwound whenever theyre bleeding or blinded etc?


 * Poison is green with a green bar, bleeding is reddish with a pink bar, dust could be the same though 195.137.4.228 09:02, 2 July 2006 (CDT)

Multiple Deep Wounds
If a target is hit with a Deep Wound while being effected by a deep wound does the duration extend to the newest effect and does the target lose another 20% health and/or maximum health again? Essentially, is it beneficial to give a deep wound again to a target that is under that condition already?--Vallen Frostweaver 14:26, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * just renews the condition, no stacking-Onlyashadow 14:29, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * So then feasibly it could be beneficial to do multiple short lived deep wounds in order to continue doing the health damage?--Vallen Frostweaver 08:41, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
 * No, because health is readjusted upon recovering from Deep Wound. Either use a long-lasting Deep Wound to seriously inconvenience your target while further whittling it down, or use any kind of Deep Wound as a "finisher" to reduce a target to 1HP if it had 100HP or less. Preferably while they're bleeding - Severgash, a swordie's best friend. --Black Ark 08:51, 16 August 2006 (CDT)