User talk:Jatara/buildsarchive/Build:R/any Tank Master

Rewritten and split from R/Mo Beastmaster--Token Cleric 18:58, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

Rate-a-Build
Tested: Unfavored:
 * 1) --aubee91, 12:25, 24 October 2006 (CDT) - Works great. Tons of damage.  Piece of cake to use.
 * 2) --Apocrypha, 14:41, 23rd June 2006 (CDT)
 * 3) --Sir On The Edge, 00:55, 25th June 2006 (GMT)
 * 4) --Kessel 10:47, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
 * 5) --Dragonaxe 22:01, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * 6) --Foo
 * 7) --Arendis 16:23, 1 August 2006 (CDT) - This is a fabulous build: tough, damaging, very fun.
 * 8) --Turaak 07:35, 3 September 2006 (CDT)
 * 9) --Vadigor - Great build.
 * 10) -- Azraell 07:29, 17 November 2006 (CST) My favorite Ranger build ever
 * 11) --Nebulann Archer 23:34, 30 January 2007 (CST)I have used this build and many of the variations and suggestions listed on this page. Very solid ranger build, another fun "profession" for rangers.
 * 12) Let's all sign after voting ended half a year ago! Whooo! &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:35, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * Votes don't "end" per-se. Doom Music 12:59, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) This build is fun as hell. Had 2 Dire Pets With this.-X H K
 * 2) Finally made a ranger, and this is a truely awesome Beast Mastery build. Pet simply doesn't take damage.  Doom Music 12:59, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Tested Vote
Token Cleric, removed your tested vote. Please note you may not vote your own build as tested. Kessel 22:19, 8 July 2006 (CDT)


 * And yes, I know it's already been verified, but matter of principle. Kessel 22:22, 8 July 2006 (CDT)


 * No problem. I thought that it was odd that I would be allowed to do that, but I had seen it on a few other builds, so I assumed that it was OK.  I will be careful not to do it in the future.  Thanks for the clarification, and thank you for your support!--Token Cleric 23:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Added my tested vote in, though. *grin* Kessel 10:47, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Attribute Bases
Maybe whoever submitted this made a typo, but the attribute bases (11-12-11) are impossible to reach. --Zoe 15:25, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You are correct, Zoe. I have made the necessary correction.  The attribute distribution should be (12/12/11), which is actually (10+1+1/11+1/10+1).  Thanks for pointing this out.--Token Cleric 03:58, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * There is no need to have 11 Wilderness Survival, because Troll Unguent will increase to 9 Health Regen at level 12, not 11, so you might as well have 10 to free up some more attribute points.


 * Also, the attributes are different from what you say, they are now 10+2/11+1+2/10+1 EDIT: Saw these changes in the Expertise talk.


 * I still don't understand then need for 11 Wilderness Survival. You have 12 Beast Mastery (10+2), 14 Expetise (11+3+1), and 11 Wilderness Survival (10+1). 10 and 11 Wilderness Survival both give 8 health regeneration. This makes the +1 useless, making it a waste. Can it be substituted for a vigor rune or attunement rune? Wilderness Survival isn't at 12, Beast Mastery is.--24.16.163.73 01:27, 29 November 2006 (CST)


 * This build was made before the update and the rune was just to future proof it against the change of Troll Unguent, which is not the recommended skill anyway... I'll change it a bit.

Impossible In PVE
I havn't been playing Guild Wars for very long (so perhaps I'm missing something), but I was of the assumption that all skills fell under the category of being either Core, exclusive to the Prophecies campaign, or exclusive to the Factions campaign. Two of the skills included in this build are labeled as being exclusive to Prophecies (Symbiotic Bond and Call of Protection), while two more are labeled as being exclusive to Factions (Enraged Lunge and Predatory Bond). It doesn't appear as though any of those four skills have duplicates in the opposite campaign.

I'm suggesting that this build was perhaps intended to be classified under the PVP category. -Shuurin 12:24, 16 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You can travel between campaigns and therefore aquire skills from both factions and prophecies. --Theeth (talk)   13:05, 16 June 2006 (CDT)


 * That is correct. You must travel between the campaigns to get all of the required skills.  That is, in fact, what I did when I made the build.  Thank you for pointing this out; when I wrote it, I didn't consider that some people would be playing only one of the chapters, or both chapters separately.
 * I assure you that this build is intended for PvE, almost exclusively. In PvP, people will just run past the pet and attack the ranger.  When playing this build, the key is to stay back at a safe spot and allow the pet to do (and receive) all of the damage.
 * I have made a note about the need for both campaigns in the description.--Token Cleric 14:58, 16 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Oh wow, I did not know that. I actually first looked at this build because, up until this point, I was having difficulty finding a Ranger build that involved using a pet. I'll definitely try this one out now. Sorry about the confusion. -Shuurin 11:00, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

Alternative
Yes, this will work, but I swap out predatory bond, symbiotic bond and trolls unguent for needling shot, healing breeze and a monk res skill. My reasons are as follows; firstly, when the pet attacks reduce the monsters health to below 50%, spamming needling shot is devastating and should be considered but remember that while it is over 50% a regular bow attack will do more damage. Secondly, the reason I take healing breeze is that you can use it on the pet but equally importantly, you can use it on other party members and sometimes this is the difference between success or failure. Thirdly, IMHO everyone should take a res but the chances are that as a ranger you are more likely to survive an encounter that anyone else in the party and a repeatable res is a good thing to have. Also, when the bodies are beginning to drop during a fight, the monk is usually too busy keeping the survivors on their feet and you can quite literally turn the tide by ressing party members.


 * Anonymous Writer,
 * I think that a build similar to what you are describing can be found in the build that this one was split off from: . In this build, though, the replacements described here would be disasterous.  Remember that the predatory bond and the symbiotic bond are there to protect the pet (the mentality is that your hit points and the hit points of your pet are one, so Predatory Bond benefits the pet as much as you) AND to fuel the Enraged Lunge.  Without them, the main damage dealing mechanism of this build is severly handicapped.
 * However, I do agree that, if you are playing a R/Mo, Healing Breeze is better than Troll Unguent. It can be cast on yourself or directly on the pet, and the casting time is much lower.  The only benefit of Troll Unguent is that it is a skill, and as such, can't be removed once it is activated.  I specifically wrote the build, however, to be "R/any" so that any primary ranger could try it out.
 * Though I cannot claim to maintain any kind of objectivity (I am partial to my own build, after all),I can tell you that I very successfully used this build with my R/Rt in the exact form that it is written here to complete the Factions Campaign as a tank. The only mission for which I had to switch builds was the Kuunavang.--Token Cleric 20:41, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

Expertise
It is much more effecient to use either 13 or 9 Expertise instead of 12. If you go to 9 then more can be put into BM adding to your pet or if you go to 13 it can be taken away from WS which I don't think is that important for this build anyway. When using it and similar things I found very little health being taken off of me and using Predatory Bond it is regen quite quickly. --Apocrypha 13:00, 21 June 2006 (CDT)


 * That's an excellent point. In fact, I think it should go one more step, to 14 (see below).  over the last two days I have doing a lot of experimenting with the build, and I have some updates in the works related to this very issue.  Thanks for the feedback.

I have messed arround with it and I find the build most effective with this: Expertise 10+1+2 (this allows for the cheepest use of Enraged Lunge and Troll Unguent possable). Beast Mastery 11+2 (this allows Call of Protection to reduce the dmg taken by 12 instead of 11). Wilderness Survival 10+2 (having it at 11 points had no effect on Troll Unguent, adding one more point adds another point of healing). ( User:Sir On The Edge (13:17, 16 June 2006 (GMT) )


 * I'll try it with this mod, but I think that taking Expertise to 14 is better because the transition from 13 to 14 takes your 10 cost skills down from 5 to 4. This means that Call of Haste, Comfort Animal, and Symbiotic Bond are reduced.  I've been playing in the later missions, such as Raisu Palace where you have to fight boss after boss, so I've had to deal with a lot of "skill resetting".  The Expertise of 14 has been extremely helpful in these instances.
 * The other potential problem that I see is the use of 3 major runes. -105 to life can be very difficult to deal with if you are sharing your life with your pet.
 * Nonetheless, thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a try.--Token Cleric 06:46, 22 June 2006 (CDT)

As you get +65 health from your armor and staff it's fine. Also, as the energy problems are almost nill, you might wish to get a +60 health staff. meaning a total of +95 health. ( User:Sir On The Edge (13:17, 16 June 2006 (GMT) )

Updates
Though I stand by my "Tested" vote on the initial build, I have done some experimenting and updated the build with the following improvements:
 * Changed the ability distribution to Beast Mastery:10+2/Expertise11+1+2/Wilderness Survival 10+1.
 * Reason: With an Expertise of 14 combined with an energy boosting staff, energy management problems have gone from easily manageable to virtually non-existent.


 * Added, as a possible variation, that either Call of Haste or Predatory Bond could be replaced with a second pet attack, such as brutal strike for more damage.
 * Reason: This build is designed around the pet functioning as a tank as well as the sole damage dealer of the two.  Anything that maximizes the pet's damage without significantly deterring the ability to tank is helpful for the build.


 * Cleaned up the wording on my weapon and armor recommendations.
 * Reason: Simply poor wordsmithing.

Thank you for the feedback.--Token Cleric 14:47, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

The Biggest Problem With This Build
By the way, I've found one HUGE problem with this build: Convincing people in the game that you can be a tank without the "W" in your profession. Time and time again I have had to deal with people saying "You said you were a tank. You're a Ranger", as though "tank" is synonymous with "warrior". It's a pain in the behind. I keep referring them to this site, and hopefully (in time) people will realize that a ranger can be a tank.

People are just afraid to try something new. In every instance that someone has let me into their party, trusting that I can back up what I am claiming, they have been very pleasantly surprised during combat.

In PvE, this is an outstanding build; the AI monsters stay focused on the pet, and don't come running for the master. The pet does crazy damage, and can absorb an even crazier amount of damage. Personally, I'd even challenge any warrior "tank" against my pet toe-to-toe, and I would bet in favor of my pet.--Token Cleric 07:05, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree completely, I took on 'The Drinkmaster' quest solo with my pet, only lvl 19 and as long as I didn't get attacked (died the first time, couldn't aggro from a good range) I'm fine, and that's against a level 24. In PvP I was killing warriors left and right, and I use Maiming assault when they start running from me. Casters are even easier, and that was with a pet with +health and negative damage, forget what the mod for that is. I had to give him up and try to make a dire pet this time around. Personally I use 16 BM, I only have ~430 health afterwards (no explorers armour and just a random longbow for the range) and less WS. I always die before my pet but I hit for 120 damage on casters and 85-90 on warriors. Also, with 16 BM your skills don't reset when he dies and you can rez to 61% life, sometimes better for him to die than heal him because he is rezed in 1 second to 61%. --Apocrypha 14:41, 23 June 2006 (CDT)


 * This is probably the most fun build I have ever used. 5 of us in our guild have set up with this build with one bonder...  Bonding the rangers and setting them loose is quite an awesome thing to behold.  In the PvP/Alliance battles we have taken part of we always get laughed at in the begining...  Then, when they start respawning because they cant get past the level 12 Phoenix they suddenly have a much greater respect for the TankMaster.  I would Whole Heartedly agree that this needs to be a tested build.  --Gar [CPT] 19:20, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

Quick Update on this topic: I have resolved this problem to a certain degree. I recently created and built up an R/W, and I no longer have trouble getting into groups as a tank. If you are going to try to get into a group as a tank with this build, I recommend doing it as an R/W. This may require a temporary switch of your secondary profession in Senji's Corner. It shouldn't matter, as there are no actual changes, but it makes it go over easier. As I noted above, some people can't accept the fact that "tank" is not synonymous with "Warrior". Enjoy! --Token Cleric 11:06, 28 June 2006 (CDT)


 * With the new updates that allow you to change your secondary in all outposts, this is easier to do than ever, and I suggest it as well. It still doesn't work though, on most people.  "I said were looking for a tank, you're a ranger".  Well, actually, they usually misspell you're as 'your'...  And misspell ranger too...  So I wouldnt let them bother you too much, still a shame to have such a hard time finding a group.  --69.231.162.56 00:32, 27 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Hm, isn't there still the problem that the pet will lose focus of the enemy once the petmaster does something else, like running around (trying to lose aggro) because some monsters attack him nonetheless and the ranger himself isn't really a tank ;) ??? Then the pet will leave and the mob it kept busy up till then will follow and probably go after the softies in the team. A human player, or even a hero who's pinned (flag) wouldn't do so. Can you control a pet better now? (I lost interest in beat mastery because of that stupid pet) --89.50.189.8 21:30, 12 December 2006 (CST)


 * If I may. The pet makes a terrible tank when used on a team; as you said, the human tanks will do _much_ better.  That is why I do not like the Tank Master build as written, a third of the skills are useless to it (I said it :P).  That same third is, however, necessary for any pure beastmaster solo build.  This causes no end to my frustration as everybody tells me that my solo beastmaster builds, even those of different secondaries than any variant discussed on this page, are just Tank Master variants; because apparently Enraged Lunge + Call of Protection + any skill that splits damage between pet and master = Tank Master.  I'm going to write an article about it so everybody knows where to put any pure beastmaster build: on the Tank Master page).  The Tank Master should have been written to take advantage of the pets extraordinary damage dealing capabilities.  The pet is not so much a tank as a guided missle.  Below is how the Tank Master should have been written, IMHO.  (Plus this build leaves me at least a couple of skills I need for a solo beastmaster so ppl would give my builds a break :P).


 * You may want to put even a third pet attack in the optional slot (1.71 pet attack speed w/ call of haste = need 3 attack skills to use one on every attack). Make sure you have all the plus energy you can muster if you do that though.  Because of the way melees work out though, you would rarely need a third pet attack.  Rez siggy is probably the best, safest choice.  A run stance is great too.  With this setup, The pet doesn't tank (it never did).  It just deals damage.  CoP protects it enough, but if it dies, no big deal, just rez it; since it isn't tanking its health doesn't matter.  So you know, it probably wont die.  With CoP and Comfort Animal (best heal in the game) your pet is probably the best protected thing on the battlefield.  Oh yeah, the tank master needs to be R/W.  Who would ever want Troll Unguent over Healing Signet?  Also, if you have trouble dealing with the pet AI, I feel your pain.  But it isn't as complicated as it seems.  After some practice, it is in fact very easy to work with, you just have to get to know your pet (like real beastmasters IRL :).  Below is a pet aggro model I developed for when I work with solo beastmaster builds.  It is written in as general terms as possible so that every possible course of action (there arn't that many) can be deduced from it.
 * With Love, --Windjammer 04:03, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Pet Aggro Model
Pet AI is not as complicated is it first seems. The following is a model that accurately predicts pet behavior (mostly). The model is written to a command intensive use, and does not include passive pet AI that guides the pet when there is no master or when the master is not giving commands. Definitional Framework is given first, followed by the actual model. Bugs and Ad Hoc (things added to allow the model to better predict behavior) are given last.
 * Framework
 * state of attacking: The master enters this state as soon as the attack command is given. If an attack is initiated, and then a casting time skill is used, the master continues to remain in a state of attacking through the cast time.
 * attack: An attack has been performed once the weilded weapon has been used. Attacks that have been obstructed are not considered attacks for this model
 * pet aggro delay: This is the delay between the time a new target is chosen for the pet and when the pet actually obtains that target. This delay seems to be about one second.
 * heeled: This is when the pet is following the master. This state is entered anytime the pet has fully returned to the master.
 * aggroed: This is when the pet is actively chasing and attacking its target. This state is entered when the pet has obtained a target.  If the pet loses its target, it will begin to return to the master.
 * flee check: While aggroed, the pet checks periodically to see if the master is fleeing. If the master is moving in any direction when this check is performed, the pet loses its target.  I am not exactly sure what the timing cycle for this flee check is, but it seems to be somewhere between 5 - 10 seconds.
 * target check: While aggroed, the pet checks periodically to see if a new target has been assigned via the master initiating a state of attack on a different target. If you have selected a new target, you must wait for the pet to perform a target check before it will switch.  This may occur on the same cycle the flee check does, and appears to also be 5 - 10 seconds.


 * Model
 * The pet's target is that which the master has initiated a state of attack upon.
 * When the pet is heeled, an attack must be completed before the pet aggro delay will start
 * When the pet is aggroed, the pet aggro delay starts immediatly after the state of attack is initiated.


 * Bugs/Ad Hoc
 * If the pet gets stuck because it is surrounded by monsters and can't move at all, it may freeze in place and refuse to do anything, even when it is no longer surrounded. If it is stuck and mobs are still around it, assign it to attack the mob it is facing as this will often fix it.  Otherwise the remedy is to run up right on top of the pet.  This does not happen very often, and generally happens in certain areas and with certain mobs.  Once you get a feeling for were it happens, with what mobs, and why, it can usually be avoided altogether.
 * In PvP, your targets are moving around a lot. At times they even seem to shake the pet's AI.  Be wary of this and if you see your pet running back to you, but you know you havn't tripped the flee check, this is probably what it is.  Just enter a state of attacking for split second and the pet will return to its mark.

Written by me, Windjammer. If you have a way to improve upon it, please do so, but keep the Framework - Model format. And remeber, simplicity is key!!!--Windjammer 04:03, 14 December 2006 (CST)

One Creature
This segment sounds like a comercial to me, and most of the sentances are generaly wrong or misleading. I would remove it all together. (except for that, I have tried the build for a bit, and it seems like a lot of fun). Foo 03:25, 25 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd be lying if I said there was no advertising intended in this section, but I still believe it is important for a different reason. The point to that section is to remind the reader of the mindset that the player must have.  This build is totally dedicated to the pet, and it is essential that the player remember that.  Some people may try to mix in a little bit of bow skills or possibly some other skills to let the character do damage.  This section is here to let the player know that such changes are unnecessary and possibly detrimental to the build.


 * However, I would be happy to change any inaccuracies in the section if you can point them out. What did you find that was wrong or misleading?--Token Cleric 06:41, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The pet does not really SHARE hp with the character, it shares damage. the damage prevention is aplied to the damage on the pet only. life gain is not constant, and you can res "yourself" only if the character can survive the enemy focus once its pet is dead. With that said, the build is good, and I see no need to protect it from players. let them do what they wish. they might fail, or come up with something else. you can, still, add a note about the mindset you are talking about. making it sound like a comercial insults me as a reader. Foo 08:21, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I believe you are mistaken on the first two points, and here are the reasons why:
 * "The pet does not really SHARE hp with the character, it shares damage." This point is really just a matter of semantics.  There is really only one hit point that matters: the last one.  All other hit points are used to absorb damage to protect that last one, and a greater number of hit points means greater protection.  With Symbiotic Bond, the pet is using the ranger's hit points to absorb half of all damage dealt to it.  Whether you call it sharing damage or sharing hit points, the premise is the same: the ranger's hit points are being used to absorb half of the pet's damage, which means greater protection for that all important last hit point.  The damage that the pet can absorb before getting to that last hit point is going to be 900+.
 * "Life gain is not constant." I assume you are referring to Predatory Bond.  This is true to an extent: it only lasts 17 out of every 30 seconds (assuming your staff doesn't cut the recharge in half).  However, Troll Unguent and Symbiotic Bond more than make up for this.  At the levels described, Symbiotic Bond has a duration of 250+ seconds, a recharge time of 55 seconds, and a zero casting time.  Since you are going to perpetually cast it to fuel your enraged lunge, your pet is going to get a perpetual +3 health regeneration.  Even if you forget to re-use the symbiotic bond for 3 minutes, the pet is going to continue to get the health gain.
 * Regarding rezzing yourself: I think the point about what is meant by rezzing "yourself" is made clear in the description, just as the point about running away while your other half (i.e. the pet) continues to fight is clear.  Still, I'll tweak the wordsmithing to say "resurrect that other half."


 * I am always receptive to changes, and I appreciate your input. People are going to do what they want, regardless of what encouragement I provide.  The encouragement to think of the ranger and the pet as "one creature" is there because I believe it is the best way to convey the mindset that I had when I wrote it.  I think if people play this build in that manner they will find it favorable.  From the feedback so far (including yours, and I thank you for that), I am correct in this regard.--Token Cleric 14:11, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


 * You are still the salesman. :| Foo 17:17, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Mea Cupla. :D  --Token Cleric 18:06, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


 * It is Culpa. Foo 00:46, 27 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Ha! I swear I heard the word "Culpa" in my head as I typed "Cupla", and even thought I saw the word "Culpa" when I double checked.  Must be my lysdexia.--Token Cleric 06:22, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

I agree with Foo. I would rather that section would not be in the article than stay as it is. --68.142.14.40 00:54, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

I am satisfied with JoDiamonds's edit of the section. Foo 06:44, 28 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree. It was very well done, probably more IAW standard format, and still retains the information. Thanks, JoDiamonds!--Token Cleric 10:54, 28 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Gosh, your welcome. Thanks for the comments. --JoDiamonds 11:23, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Testing Update: Dire Pet
After completing factions with a second ranger, I charmed a pheonix and immediately went to the Ice Tooth Cave to begin training the pet to be Dire. I would aggro the Minotaurs and then just stand there healing myself while my pet did all of the damage. At no point during either run did my pet ever go below 90% health, and I had no trouble staying alive with as many as 5 Minotaurs attacking at one time. I used the build as described, with one exception: I replaced Comfort Animal with Brutal Strike. The healing/rezzing was unnecessary, and the added damage sped up the runs. In two runs around the Ice Tooth Cave and about 90 minutes of gameplay, my bird reached level 11 and had evolved into an aggressive pheonix. I am going to return to the Ice Tooth Cave and finish the evolution to Dire after the Dragon Festival is over.

After I complete that evolution and do some further testing with Build:Rt/any Spirit Nuker (formerly known as Doom and Boom), I will add a variation to the build for dire evolutions. Hope everyone enjoys the festival!--Token Cleric 17:09, 30 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I am rather curious here what level are the minotaurs outside of Ice Tooth? Because I know very well that minotaurs can hurt in two or more attacking you in the desert.. I take my pet out soloing Desert Minotaurs and I get myarse handed to me on several occasions due to minotaurs either ganking my pet (running up Symbiotic bond damage to me) or two or three of them turning around and mauling me..-Shadow


 * They are level 10, with the exception of one "boss" minotaur that is level 13. Even at level 5, my bird wiped the walls with as many as 5 at a time.--Token Cleric 07:57, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

This game is not MtG
Hehee. Was my use of the word "play" the the obvious indicator that was once a MtG player, or the fact that I like playing a build that uses a "creature" to attack for me? Thanks for sharpening up the wording Bishop. Perhaps, if Nightfall has a Lion as a new pet, I will name it "Savannah Lion". --Token Cleric 17:44, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Haha, yes, it was using the term "play" that gave it away. I've caught myself doing that too, although it's been a long time since I played MtG... -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 00:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * How did you know there'd be a lion? You're a leaker aren't you? MtG ftw. I miss spending lots of money on pieces of paper with imposed and unstable value (ie useless as soon as the next edition comes out) =P MtG ftw anyway.--Silk Weaker 03:42, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Different Pet Types
Has any one tested different type of pets with this build? I currently have a dune lizzard. Every time I go and try to level him up, everything goes straight for me, totally ignores my pet. Yes I'm using a longbow. Is there any pet that works best for this build or what? --> Mouse


 * There is no real difference between the pets, with 2 exceptions:
 * The damage type of each pet is different, but that should have no bearing on what you are talking about here.
 * The Black Bear has an attack that doesn't appear to add any damage, but slows his attacks down.
 * Other than that, all of the pets are virtually identical in terms of game mechanics.--Token Cleric 10:00, 5 August 2006 (CDT)
 * The problem you are experiencing, Mouse, is that the enemies are targetting you as you are the one who lead the attack, has lower health, and probably lower AL as well. What you need to do is get the pet to start attacking then run from the attackers so they attack your pet.  If in a group you can usually wait to be the 2nd to attack so that you don't get any aggro and it should get your pet in the front lines to start tanking without the aggro problems.  Regrettably, there is currently no option to send the pet in to attack without you first doing so (like target calling for henchies) which draws aggro onto you.  It just takes a bit of practice and a little getting used to.  For your first few times you can even try retreating using a speed boosting skill to better ensure that you personally lose aggro quicker so the enemies attack the pet.  Later, switch it out once you get the idea/mechanics of how it works.  Just a suggestion until you get it down.  Many have 'beastmastered' throughout the game and may have this down pat already from experience.--Vallen Frostweaver 14:26, 9 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I experience the same problems as mouse :-\ they always semm to avoid my pet and smack me. I tried shooting then running then shooting again but my pet just would go and try to attack then turn aroundand run towards me.. Arenanet needs to upgrade the pet AI to where it can actually hold aggro and wont break its aggro just because you moved a couple of feet away.. and I would definitely like to have a pet "order" system where I can tell them togo attack like henchies. -Shadow


 * Yes, at the very least calling a pet attack should make a non-attacking pet attack. --Heurist 01:51, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

Effective Tanking
From what I understand from this build, the goal is to let your pet act as your tank and main damage dealer, keeping you out of harms way and healthy enough to take the damage from Symbotic bond and healing. The only problem for me is that when I try to get my pet to attack a target, I first have to damage it myself. This causes all the monsters to aggro on me, not my pet. Kiting or running doesn't work because your pet will follow you very closeley. Therefor I would like to know how to get your pet to take up the enemy's aggro, which seems to be the main idea behind this build.

Also, as for Healing Breeze vs Troll Unguent discussed elsewhere, I constantly have to keep up my healing (because of the aforementioned reason) which causes huge energy management issues. This, coupled with the fact that your pet should be able to tank without needing your additional healing from Breeze, I still suggest Troll Unguent over Healing Breeze.


 * There are two approaches that you can take to solve this problem.
 * If you are in a group, you should wait for the first tank of the group to attack, and then attack his target. This will allow your pet to help the other tanks in the group, and keep you out of harm's way.
 * if you are going solo, then the only thing that I can suggest is a "hit and run" tactic. Attack with your staff, and your pet will charge in.  Then start running.  You don't necessarily have to run AWAY; just run.  You can't just stand still.  When I solo this build, I often just run in circles, sometimes around my opponents, to keep moving.  The way that the monster AI is built, if it is chasing a target (you) and another target (your pet) is damaging it, it will change its attack to the damaging target.  You just have to practice.  Stick and move; shuck and jive.


 * Also, regarding Healing Breeze: it is superior to troll unguent in only one way: it can be perpetually maintained. that said, it is more expensive, and it can be destroyed by a good mesmer.  I agree that troll Unguent is better, particularly because it doesn't require you to invest anything into your secondary class (thus, any primary ranger can use the build)--Token Cleric 08:23, 30 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the info, this should make it a bit easier, I definately have to try the Figure Eight trick.
 * Healing Breeze can indeed by constantly maintained but was too energy heavy during my first tries at the build, but now that my pet is a bit higher level it shouldn't be that hard to maintain for short periods of time. The 3 second lapse between recasting Troll Unguent could be a risk, but in a decent group one should be able to rely on the healer.
 * Just a suggestion, but how would Mending impact this build? Energy problems are virtually nil during testing and levelling so I might give it a try, although I'm not sure if the low regen is worth it.


 * I do not recommend Mending. It does not provide enough healing.
 * On the other hand, I recently tested this build with a R/W and replaced Troll Unguent with Healing Signet, and I have found Healing Signet to be FAR superior. So superior, in fact, that I am adding it as a variant.  At a tactics level of 10, the healing signet can heal for 115 HP.  It can be recast every 4 seconds, and it uses no energy.  Even with a 1 second gap in between uses, you are talking about 230 HP of healing in 10 seconds with no energy cost.  Compare that to Troll Unguent, which can only heal for 80 over 10 seconds at the same level.  No contest.
 * I still think Troll Unguent should be in the core build because I like the fact that the build is "R/any".--Token Cleric 21:42, 5 September 2006 (CDT)


 * At 11WS Troll Unguent gives 8regen, which means that it actually heals you 160HP over its time period. I've updated your note in the article to reflect this. RossMM 03:10, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the correction. I realize now that I completely misunderstood that mechanic.  The signet is still superior on paper and in play (I tested with my R/W), but not as drastically superior on paper as it appeared initially.  Once again, thanks.--Token Cleric 16:20, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Predatory Bond for healing
From what I gathered of the build, it was using the two calls and the two bonds to power Enraged Lunge. However, Enraged Lunge itself counts when calculating the damage bonus, so you really only need three BM skills recharging. Therefore, I decided to tweak the build a bit by doing the following:


 * Use Call of Protection, Call of Haste, and Symbiotic Bond to power Enraged Lunge.
 * Use Predatory Bond for healing when it is necessary.
 * Ditch Troll Unguent and Wilderness Survival altogether.
 * Pump BM and Expertise to 12; add desired runes.

That frees up one slot for something else like a pet attack or Whirling Defense. However, there's just one concern: is Predatory Bond enough for healing? So far I haven't really had a problem with healing, unless the whole party got wiped anyway. Maybe my pet just hasn't tanked hard enough for the Symbiotic Bond damage to really start to pressure me, but I think the build does benefit from having higher Expertise/BM and a slot for self-defense/additional damage (I'm thinking about Poisonous Bite here). 404notfound 20:48, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * In direct response to predatory bond question; not always. It really depends how many enemies you are facing and if they are targetting your pet, you or someone else. Symbiotic bond can really start to hurt. --Turaak 20:36, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Exactly why Symbiotic Bond should not be used in this build. If you are allowing your pet to tank, S'Bond will kill you.  If it isn't tanking, you don't need it.  Why is it even in this build?  A better choice, if you must have your pet tank, is Life Bond.--Windjammer 14:20, 20 December 2006 (CST)

This is incorrect. Symbiotic Bond will not be what kills you. Unless your pet is the ONLY tank in a group of 8 (which in itself is foolishness), you don't take much damage through Symbiotic Bond. The pet kills so quickly that there isn't time for it to take much damage. I have played through all of Factions with this build, and I have never died on ANY mission because of Symbiotic Bond (it was always direct attacks that did it, and that was usually because I was with a group that aggroed much more than it could handle). Any damage that you do take is more than made up for with Troll Unguent and Predatory Bond. The advantage of Symbiotic Bond is two fold: Yes, there are alternatives, but remember that one of the goals was to design a build that ANY ranger could use. Much play-testing has shown that this build performs very well using only ranger skills. If you can get a wee bit more performance by using the skill of your secondary class, more power to you. I myself find that Healing Signet is superior to Troll Unguent if I am using an R/W, but I didn't put it into the core build because it would limit the flexibility of the design.--Token Cleric 21:57, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) It significantly reduces the amount of damage that the pet takes. Coupled with Call of Protection, this makes it extremely easy to evolve a dire pet with this build.
 * 2) More importantly, the perpetual regeneration that it gives to the pet makes healing the pet all but unnecessary. I so rarely have to use Comfort Animal that in many areas I don't even bring it (once again, especially if I am evolving a dire pet).

For an Alliance Battles' PvP build based on Enraged Lunge which is not making a tank of the pet.--mariano 04:32, 3 September 2006 (CDT)
 * No, people do run past the pet into the humans but the beauty of it is that means the pet takes little to no damage while you do un-interuptable, high damage dealing, low energy attacks to kill anyone. Even if you are dead the pet continues to hit high 20's into the 30's. --Turaak 07:29, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

I tried this build solo in Raisu Palace (explorable) and Troll Unguent is not able to keep me alive with all the dammage that I share with the pet. I managed to not get aggro most of the time and still I die pretty fast, before my pet is able to make one kill. Did anyone tried to use something else for healing/dammage reduction?


 * I think the biggest problem is that you are trying to solo with the build. It's not meant for that and, unless you're soloing Shing Jea or minotaurs to level up your pet(which, if you don't care about the survivor title, death leveling works better), it's not very good at it.  This build is meant to provide a group with a tank that does a boat-load of damage and doesn't require much healing.  But soloing is too much for it, especially when it is one of the last levels of the game.--Token Cleric 17:50, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

What about...
Since it was tested and proven that Weapon Spells work on pets and minions, would one be viable here? Brutal Weapon would really boost dmg output, and would work since you use no Enchantments, but Expertise doesn't affect spells so you would have to front the whole 10 energy. Wailing Weapon would be great for a full 10 seconds worth of constant interrupts. Vital Weapon would be great to boost your max health, and could be put on both you and your pet at once for around +300hp for your pet to work off of. Resilient Weapon and Weapon of Warding]] would be great to add health regen and either armor or blocking. Weapon of Shadow would be good for spreading around a quick blind, but has a long reload to duration ratio. And finally Wielder's Boon would stack on great healing for a small amount of energy. Would any of these be viable to bolster your pets ability to dish out or take dmg?--Azroth 14:23, 10 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I considered that. If you recall, the ranger that I tested this build with was a R/Rt; I specifically chose that combination so that I could try the weapon spells on the pet.  I was thinking that Brutal Weapon might be the best damage dealing ability for the build.  After playtesting, though, I found the following problems:
 * The energy problem that you listed above, i.e. the fact that expertise does not reduce the cost of the ritualist weapon spells.
 * The self healing factor was significantly diminished. Generally, your character will die long before the pet does.  Because of this, self healing is essential to the build.  If you are playing a R/W, you can use Healing Signet; if you are playing a R/Mo you can use Healing Breeze; etc; or you can just use the Predatory Bond and Troll Unguent that are currently in the build.  The spot healing for a ritualist isn't that great, though (even though the mass healing is far superior to a monk), so I don't think that you get much better than Troll Unguent.  Remember, too, that any healing benefit that comes from a weapon cast on the pet will benefit the pet, and not the character.  Since the pet is so well protected to begin with, I found that this puts the focus at the wrong place.
 * The main damage dealer of the build, Enraged Lunge, was diminished for each non-Beast Mastery skill used. All of the Beast Mastery skills in the current build make it very easy to maximize the damage of this strike, which occurs every 5 seconds.  Each time a Beast Mastery skill is removed, the effectiveness of Enraged Lunge goes with it.  While you don't necessarily need to have all of the skills that I have listed, keeping the skills that are included here make this an extremely easy build to run.
 * Even when I decided that I absolutely wanted to add a Rt weapon skill (let's say, Brutal Weapon), the next question was "What attribute do I want to reduce?" If you decrease the Expertise, then every ranger skill suffers.  If you reduce the BM, then you also reduce the damage.  If you reduce the Wilderness Survival (or whatever skill you are using for healing), you reduce your self healing potential.  For these reasons, I could never find an optimal solution that improved on the build.  It created too much of the "Jack of all trades" disease.
 * Even if I did get through that (and I generally found that attributes were the biggest hang-up), I then had to figure out what skill you would be replaced. Symbiotic Bond and Call of Protection are essential to heal the pet, and Enraged Lunge is the damage dealer.  Do I sacrifice the life gain of Predatory Bond, the added speed/damage (and life gain, when combined with Predatory Bond) of Call of Haste, or the Pet resurrection of Confort Animal (actually, I do sacrifice this third one when I am evolving pets, in favor of Brutal Strike)?  Once again, I could never find a solution that was satisfactory.
 * I tried a lot of R/Rt combinations, but I couldn't find any that were as simple and effective as the build that is posted now (which is why it IS, in fact, the build that is posted now). In fact, I'm very worried about this for a different reason: I'm trying to figure out how to make Dire Pet evolver for each class, and I'm really hung up on the Rt/R build.  I can't for the life of me think of a way to make it work.  But that's another problem for another day...
 * Don't let my comments discourage you, though: I made assumptions when I played the build (such as the necessity of Symbiotic Bond and Call of Protection) that you may find aren't as essential as I saw them. The only way to know for sure is to get out there and try it, and let us know what you find!
 * I'm really going to scour the Nightfall skills when it comes out to see if there is a way that this build can be made better. Also, something that I have been thinking about is a R/Mo variation that uses Live Vicariously and Essence Bond to regain life and energy.  I'm testing out another build right now, but if you want to try this out, I'd appreciate anything that you can contribute.  Thanks for your ideas!--Token Cleric 17:29, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

I'd love too...but I have no ranger atm. My comments were put in the form of a question because I couldn't test them my self to see if they worked (all your points were very good btw). I'm waiting for the extra character slots of Nightfall (and all the pretty new skills that I hope will come out to really allow for new and interestng builds for every class) to make a Ranger. So sorry, I'd love to help out but am completely incapable of doing so right now. Thanks for the lengthy explanation btw, it realy seems like you know your build inside and out.--Azroth 18:25, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Heh. I playtested the heck out of it before posting it.  Once I completed it, I constantly looked it over and asked "how can I make it better?"  I still do that, in fact, and I hope that everyone else does, too.  That said, while I do know the build very well, I don't know everything about it (or about all aspects of the game).  There were a lot of great ideas put into the build by others during the discussion, and I'm sure there is still a lot more that can be contributed.  I knew this specific issue, but only because I built it using a R/Rt.  Please keep the ideas coming, though; that's what makes the wiki great!--Token Cleric 23:08, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

Curious...
Nowhere does it state (that I have seen) at what time can you start training a pet. Should it be a new pet? I have a lvl20 pet now, can I still train it to become dire? I also have a lvl15 pet on another character I have been trying to follow the guildlines listed but it seems to take ages. Does it really matter where you train it or should it be in these specified areas for faster results? I hope that someone may be able to help me in my little quandry.


 * No, you cannot train a level 20 pet to bcome Dire. Also, your level 15 pet is too high of a level to gain experience from the Minotaurs.  You will need to get a new pet and begin evolving it from its earliest stages.  This means that you cannot evolve a Dire Spider or a Dire Black Moa Bird.
 * You need to train in these areas because the monsters described in these areas only do physical damage (no life stealing, degeneration, etc.). This is the only way to get the full benefit of Symbiotic Bond.--Token Cleric 10:09, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Boost 10/26/06 Call of protection has been boosted thanks to 10/26/06 update. Now the pet can tank better! Utaku Mu Dan

R/W Mad Cat
The name Mad Cat comes from the 'Enraged Lunge' skill upon which the build is based (Enraged=Mad). The original build upon which the Mad Cat is based was created by Token Cleric; his build is called the 'Tank Master'
 * As requested below by Sir On The Edge: my exact build for your testing and criticizing pleasure.--Windjammer 16:01, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * I give Token Cleric full credit for the concept behind this build. However, as originally written, it wasn't as efficient at tanking or dealing damage as it could be.  I have significantly changed the build to allow it to better perform the tanking role, or to act as a damage dealer.  Please note, when used in a group, IMHO, the pet is best used as a damage dealer.  The new build, however, makes it easier to use the pet as a tank for soloing.--Windjammer 00:27, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * The build has been moved to its own page. Follow the R/W Mad Cat link above to access this page.

EDIT HISTORY:
 * Removed EoE, replaced it as an optional slot. After a little bit of testing, I don't like EoE.  Fertile Season is easier to work with and always useful.  Could also use Run as One to make the pet even faster, and give me an extra boost to run from aggro.  Also removed some unecessary wordiness.--Windjammer 18:35, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * Pet memory for pet attack skills does _not_ seem to be based on skill recharge. Noted this below.  Maybe someone can test to find out what the timing is for this.--Windjammer 20:31, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * Some quick field testing shows pet memory to be about 7 seconds.--Windjammer 21:07, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * EXCITING NEW UPDATE! Run as One truly unlocks the potential of this build and makes the original purpose of the Tank Master build viable.  It does not stack with Call of Haste but is still by far my favorite.  By running away extremely fast, you can easily get mobs to focus soley on the pet.  More updates and usage to come!  Preliminary testing shows this to be a viable solo farming build however!--Windjammer 15:47, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * Replaced Run as One with Zojun's Haste. Rewrote the build to reflect this, changed name to reflect the fact that the build is now more easily usable for it's original purpose (tanking).  Extensive testing has yet to be performed however.
 * Pet has some odd behavior regarding distance and how it behaves. Rewrote usage to account for this.
 * The new build solo tanks beautifully, and works better in groups than the old one. The biggest problem with solo tanking is the master dying due to Symbiotic Bond.  With SB, the pet takes virtually no damage, because its incoming damage is split, _then_ reduced by Call of Protection.  The master, however, recieves the full split of the damage.  Possible fix to this is using superior runes on beastmastery and expertise and rearranging attributes to give 12 in tactics, 13 in beastmaster, and 12 in expertise.  Also switch to Druid's Armor for extra energy to compensate for reduced expertise.  The increase in tactics gives an extra +15 healing every 4 seconds.  Over the long battles, this would be more beneficial than higher initial hit points.  Another option is to switch to a Hale staff head (rather than insightful) and switch to at least one minor rune.  This gives higher initial HP, which may be high enough to allow the pet to kill a monster before the master dies.  With one less monster attacking, Healing Signet may be able to keep up with the damage.  The problem, though annoying, is not a serious one.  One of the two solutions above should work.  Further, don't forget that you can disengage the pet by running toward it; ending the battle and allowing you to heal up and try again.--Windjammer 02:44, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * With only some slight wrinkles left, the new build is ready to be tested by the community at large. Few people see the discussion page on 'Tank Master', so I plan to create a new build page for the Mad Cat.  Though this build is based upon the Tank Master, it is much more efficient and should replace that build.  If the Guildwiki community also feels this way, then let that be so.--Windjammer 03:15, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * The Mad Cat build has been removed from this page. It now has its own page, currently as an untested build.  The Wild Cat is to become a variant of the Tank Master.

COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS:


 * Show us your best variant in this talk page so we can verify it for ourselves please. Sir On The Edge 15:01, 30 November 2006 (CST)
 * Because of the 10e skills, 14 expertise is recommended. I like this build a lot but still, if your pet dies.... I'd only recommend this for areas with a low chance of you dyeing because if your pet dies you become useless.Sir On The Edge 16:46, 30 November 2006 (CST)


 * I agree with Sir on the Edge. Also, it appears as though all of the changes that you have done (with the exception of Zujon's Haste) have already been covered in the variations section of the build.  I did extensive experimentation in the use of healing signet, and I included in the main page that it is superior to Troll Unguent (if you constantly stay on top of it).  Same with Brutal Strike.  In fact, on the Ranger that I used to make this build (whom I still play), I'm using that exact combination.
 * I appreciate the work that you have done on this, but I think you can achieve the same ends by simply adding a recommendation in the "Variants" section to swap out Comfort Animal with Zojun's Haste. It would get your point across, but would keep the general build as "R/any".  That was one of my original goals when I wrote the build; to make it so that any primary ranger could use it.  In any case, I'd hate to see you put the time into posting a build, only to have people shoot it down under the premise that it's "just another variation of the Tank Master."--Token Cleric 05:22, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * First, thank you for responding, I really want to get this build on a tested page. But I would prefer it had its own page, I have relisted the build as a farming build.  If the community continues to insist that it belongs as a variant of the Tank Master, then I will add it to that page.  The Mad Cat is different from the Tank Master because it is intended as a solo farming build, and must be R/W.  The problem with R/any, is that for the solo farming made possible by Zojun's Haste, you need every last drop of energy you can spare.  The Tank Master is intended as an R/any build, and is a PvE build, not a farming one.  The Mad Cat needs its own page.  The Wild Cat variant is ultimately a variant of the Tank Master, so I will go ahead and add it to the Tank Master page.  It basically shares its purpose with the Tank Master and can be used the same way.--Windjammer 00:52, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * I just noticed (looking through the history) that Token Cleric had added a comment to the Heavy Tank Variant. Unfortunantly I deleted the entire Mad Cat build from this discussion as it had already been duplicated on an untested build page.  I believe I inadvertantly removed Token Cleric's comments.  If you wouldn't mind restating the comment, I would like to have your input.--Windjammer 03:04, 3 December 2006 (CST)

Wild Cat
I've added in the Wild Cat variant, with some special usage notes. It can pretty mucn fly using attributes and equipment from the Tank Master, though later, I will add in minor equipment and attribute differences more suitable to the Wild Cat's usage.--Windjammer 02:11, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * Just move it were it's relevant and change it so people ether know of it's origin or so that it makes sense. Sir On The Edge 05:14, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * Alright, check it out now, I deleted the skill bar and build heading, and added it all as a variant bullet point, with a message in under the comment heading too. I suppose that does look much simpler, and still makes its point.--Windjammer 14:06, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * Link to the build? Sir On The Edge 15:33, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * See the build below.--Windjammer 02:09, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Farm Master
Another heading, heh. Should the Wild and Mad Cat headings be deleted, as that build has been merged with Tank Master. They are kind of just clutter now. I've also added a new link, the R/Mo Beast Bonder, to the 'See Also' section of the Tank Master page. I thought it was appropriate since their conceptual model is similar. If you don't like it there, or the build gets shot down in testing, I will remove it.--Windjammer 02:10, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Below is another build for your testing pleasure, if you like it I can add it to the page. It is specialized for farming, and uses both Healing Signet and Troll Unguent for dealing with the damage. I havn't tested it extensively yet, but it works OK. I've also made another build, the R/Mo Beast Bonder, and it works the best for farming so far. But it depends on enchantments. For areas with mobs that strip enchantments I wanted somthing similar to the Tank Master (which uses no enchantments); so I made the Farm Master (does the name sound to cheesy?). The Farm Master also has the advantage of packing in an extra pet attack. The R/Mo Beast Bonder is easier to use, but for those situations when you are dealing with mobs that strip enchantments, or you need the extra attack power (and the build's no running skill variant is not desirable), the Farm Master may be just the thing. Look at it and see what you think, test it out if you want. Take a look at the R/Mo Beast Bonder too, it works really well. Both these builds were actually developed when I was looking for a way to deal with the large mobs of diverse specialized foes encountered throughout Kaineng City and other areas of Cantha. So they are very resilient when dealing with generally smaller, less diverse foes in the many areas of Tyria (these generalizations may not be true, but they are at least my experience).--Windjammer 02:10, 5 December 2006 (CST)

After much testing, the Farm Master build I had posted is simply not viable. I've deleted it from here, to cut down on clutter. I have also been advancing the concept of the Solo Beastmaster. The best build I've found so far is the R/Mo one linked above. I'm even writing a guide on Solo Beastmastering. See the linked build above for the bosses farmed with it so far, and read the Solo Beastmaster guide for its use. Keep in mind it is a work in progress, and not even posted as of yet.--Windjammer 02:05, 10 December 2006 (CST)

PvP ownage
I love the tankmaster for PvP. I use the following variant and it is great. The other team often doesn't know how to react to your pet, if only because pure beastmaster is so rare in PvP. Further, you can easily get to backline healers and nukers by attacking a frontliner, waiting for your pet to run to attack, then switch your target to a backliner (see my Pet Aggro Model posted on this page for details). I often use my pet to harass the team's linebackers and keep them from being effective.

A team I was on in RA owned 10 straight when I was using this!!! We also had a damn good healer. My team would all stay back and I would send my pet over. The other team rarely knows how to deal with a pure beastmaster, they would all break formation and come running for us. Seeing my pet attack they thought we were all attacking. I would immediatley send my pet for healers or nukers, who would start running around now, doing very little good for their team; the rest of the opposing team would rush toward us to be owned. The pet would often single handedly kill healers and nukers! Just alternate your attacks, Enraged does crazy damage, Disrupting is going to catch their skills and disable them for 20 seconds, annoying the hell out of healers and nukers and everybody on the other team in fact! When using this build, have your team stay back and setup to kill the other team as they rush toward you. Use your pet to flush the opposing team out.--Windjammer 14:17, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Works much better in AB. Theres absolutely NO need to make your pet a tank. That's what the 1 sec cast 1 sec recharge rez is for. --Spark 20:49, 29 December 2006 (CST)

I tested this one in Arenas it works pretty pretty well!

Only down side is lack of Self Heal...any comment welcomed!


 * The only comment that I have about this one in RA is that 4 pet attacks in really unnecessary. Because of the timing of the pet's attacks, 2 pet attacks is usually adequate, with 3 just barely being better (depending on what you are giving up).  In this build, I'd replace Maiming strike with either Predatory Bond or Troll Unguent (though I am partial to Predatory Bond) and Disrupting Lunge with Rez Signet.--Token Cleric 16:42, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

This one is way much better, and works pretty well in RA :

Now : you got self heal, cripple, interrupt (works insanely good against Troll Unguent, Rez Signet, even some Ele skills), and acceptable damage + good damage when under 50%. Finnaly, you can now play RA because you've got Rez signet!

Hero Builds
I want to mark this as a hero build also... Acolyte Jin uses it well, all you have to do is make sure his long recharge skills are recharging, which doesn't take much time, while you are mashing 1. Anyone agree? --Frvwfr2 13:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Ok then, I'll go ahead and add it. --Frvwfr2 12:40, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hahaa. It's funny to see that someone else tested this.  I tested it, too, and I whole-heartedly agree.  I now run with 3 Tank Masters in my group: my character, Acolyte Jin, and another ranger hero named Margrid.  One thing that I do differently, though: I generally don't have the heroes use symbiotic bond.  I might change that, though, as I continue to test.  Thanks for including it.--Token Cleric 18:00, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks for removing that note about the heroes not using it well. From my experience, they use it very well.--Token Cleric 15:28, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Oytughs Cry
Could this be used in a team hero build of this? I run with 3 of these, and Oytughs could make some enemies much easier.... --Frvwfr2 09:33, 6 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's OK, though it has been changed now to only affect your pet. The unblockable thing is nice, and the armor bonus is very nice.  The only problem is that it isn't perpetual, and it forces you to ask the question "what do I take out?  Call of Haste? Symbiotic Bond?"  On the whole, though, it's not bad.  It might be worth testing with it replacing Symbiotic Bond to see of the pet stays alive in hard areas.  If it does, then you have just found a way to reduce the damage to your ranger.--Token Cleric 00:22, 7 April 2007 (CDT)