Talk:Winds of Change

To do: --Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 12:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Afflicted have new skill bars
 * Am Fah have new skill bars and mobs
 * Jade Brotherhood have new skill bars and mobs


 * As I mentioned here, Some of the Afflicted have several possible skillbars. Necros definitely have 2 possible options, one using monk skills and one using rit skills. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 12:35, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Also see here for new Purity skills and new Soul Explosions. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 12:38, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Precedence vs practicality
Currently, we have consensus for Initiate Zei Ri to be linked at the first occurrence within the article, I find this to be less useful than having it linked in multiple places/within the hierarchy of quest/NPC links. I find that it would be much more useful to readers if he was either a) linked in both places, or b, have the two sub-sections merged with a note disclosing the difference between the sets of quests. In its current state it is a fairly large inconvenience having to copy/paste his name into the search bar when you're not thinking / forgot that he was linked right above.

tl;dr article could be improved by changing the Zei Ri situation. Thoughts, Gwiki editors and readers? ∵Scythe∵ 00:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Listing it at the first appearance would be correct, however when I look at the page, what I see is: 'The ministry of purity.  In no special order, here are the quests given by: Zei Rei, Tsuriai, Zei Rei, Xan Hei...'  Oh, I know an order is used, its just not stated.  What about splitting things out not unlike how they appear here or here.  Or if I directly state it: If the current format is confusing to people, use a different format that precludes confusion.  As is, the page has very little to say on the ministry, it just offers up a list of quests in 'no special order'.  Yamagawa 01:08, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * here are my proposed changes. ∵Scythe∵ 01:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The quests are in the order that you do them in. What is so confusing about that?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 04:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I pretty much agree with Ishmael. The order of the quests seems most important to me. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 08:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I didn't catch that (not done past imperial guard and first run with zei ri), but here's my revised revision ∵Scythe∵ 16:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

No where near as good as War in Kryta
So far, rather disappointed -- some nasty missions in NM that become stupidly difficult in HM (aside from gimmick builds requiring special chars which you might not have) and not really good drops. Cantha has generally sucked when it came to drops (quality and quantity) all along, and no improvement here: So, nothing like confessor orders, royal gifts, minipet drops (unless these show up in the later add-ons). The 'never before seen imperial' weapons better be damn good, and not screwing rangers YET AGAIN (no envoy bows at all, destroyer bow is hideous, no animation in oppressor bows, etc etc etc) (have you guessed my main char is a ranger, yet?). If you're going for survivor, avoid this update like the plague. GW-Susan 01:25, 21 July 2011 (UTC) If you have not finished vanquishing Cantha, DO NOT even start this chapter!!

Areas bugged?
Some areas (i.e. Pongmei Valley, will check other areas later) have changed after I did the first quest (Bukdek only), even though I did not cleanse those areas yet. So I'm nowhere near Cleansing Pongmei Valley in the quest chain, but there are Am Fah there instead of afllicted. Anyone else noticed that? 83.81.245.78 06:41, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The lore side of the content is that you are cleansing Cantha of the affliction, of which the Am Fah are agents. It would make sense that the affliction is a static "condition" of Cantha while the content is in any state of progress.  For instance, areas of Shing Jea where there are usually no Am Fah are full of them for now. ∵Scythe∵ 14:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure those aren't Am Fah on Shing Jea, they're Scavengers. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 14:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I still could accept the idea of Am Fah, as "worshippers" of the plague, could appear in a post-Shiro world as a sign of a constantly changing and evolving world. What I don't buy is: why have the afflicted disappeared? I did only Cleansing Bukdek Byway. Right now there are no afflicted mobs in Pongmei, but somewhere in the future a ministry of purity person comes running to me, saying "Omg, der r all des afflctd, plz halp" and *poof*, suddenly the afflicted are back in Pongmei Valley, until I kill them, and then it reverts "back" to "post-afflicted" status. Huh? 83.81.245.78 11:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Well the rest of the Ministry of Purity haven't been sitting on their butts the whole time, y'know. Maybe they cleaned up the few Afflicted in the valley, and the new Am Fah moved in already.  This makes sense in light of the quest there, since you're not cleaning out all of the Afflicted, only this new monstrous one that appeared.
 * Whatever the lore reason, though, we obviously need more research on how exactly this all works. Someone get a character and do only Cleansing Bukdek Byway (maybe not even complete it, just have it active), then check all the other areas to see if they've changed.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 12:54, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, given the fact that I happen to have exactly such a character:
 * 1) Sunjiang District has (some) new Am Fah mobs, in between the shiro'ken mobs. I think there are no more Afflicted in the explorable area where the mission took place, but I didn't check the whole area, only up to the warrior construct to cap HB.
 * 2) Shadow's Passage has (some) new Jade Brotherhood mobs. The Afflicted Ako (Enraged Smash) has been replaced by Tuila the Club (Enraged Smash). I didn't get his other skills.
 * 3) Pongmei Valley has new Am Fah mobs near the portal to Sunjiang explorable. The Afflicted Hakaru has been replaced by them, but I didn't yet check if there is a rit boss with the same elite among the Am Fah mobs.
 * 4) I have seen no change in Wajjun Bazaar, but the Am Fah are still friendly to me there ( I never ended that quest chain).
 * 5) I have seen no change, funnily enough, in Bukdek Byway, after cleansing it, at least in the areas around Jin the Purifier and Wing, Three blade.
 * Will keep you posted! 83.81.245.78 14:51, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * 6) After a quick peek, no change in Shenzun Tunnels or The Undercity (still afflicted around, like Huan the necromancer and the mesmer boss just west of Maatur Keep).83.81.245.78 14:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the research, and good job on the writeup. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:23, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You're welcome.
 * 1b) Been through the east part of Sunjiang District and all afflicted have been replaced by Am Fah as well, the afflicted ranger boss Huan (Broad Head Arrow) has been replaced by Zin Ju the Quick already. Updated his skill set with Broad Head arrow on his character page and adjusted the Sunjiang District page slightly (adding BHA on Zin Ju and changing the condition for the change in the area from "Completing Cleansing Sunjiang District" to "Starting the Winds of Change quest series). 83.81.245.78 09:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Some changes needed to article
First, A VERY BIG WARNING, perhaps in red, should be given, right near the top of the page (as opposed to quietly sitting in the notes section) for vanquishers, farmers and cartographers to not even start the process unless they really like absolute, stupid, holy hell! The VERY BIG WARNING should continue to warn players that the whole campaign permanently changes (at least until chapt 2 or 3). Even some normal mode action is as hard or even considerably harder than HM (Minister Cho's Estate)...

... which leads to the warning (in the notes), starting with: 'Vanquisher take heed! The new mobs are significantly tougher, especially in Hard Mode, so consider vanquishing areas before starting the Winds of Change storyline, or bring along another character who has not started Winds of Change.' is not correct--taking someone who has not started WoC may or may NOT prevent the new nasties from spawning, by a mechanism with no discernible rule (i.e., sometimes the nasties appear for a group with mixed WoC and non-WoC players and sometimes they don't; it also does not seem to depend on who's the leader)...

...this is related, perhaps, to the fact players that have not started or progressed in WoC CAN join other players in the missions and can do so in either NM or HM (but they do not get a reward or credit--except maybe a thank you from the other players).

Aside from the quest rewards (commendations), there appear (so far) to be NO special drops of ANY kind (versus WiK, with its green minipets, confessor's orders, gifts, etc; perhaps some of these will be added in later in Chapts. 2 & 3). Not sure about green weapons yet, as well.

I'm not saying these things aren't alluded to in the page, only that much more emphasis should be placed on them EARLY in the page so players aren't faced with the really crappy changes brought on by WoC. I made the mistake of starting this with my main char, but will not do so with any other char until all the crap has been cleared up (if it ever gets cleared up). I'd even suggest the Main Page should contain a warning to the effect: For players who've not started WoC yet, please read the WoC page as many important effects take place on starting WoC that can adversely effect your gameplay. GW-Susan 15:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

A BIG YES to the idea of warning on the Main WIKI page. Too late for me -- When WOC came out was bored so took three characters through the NM WOC quests in the first few hours. Went back to do them HM and was just a 'tad' taken aback by the scavengers on the Island. Was ok about one player(my GWAMM) but the other two were still working on VQ and the changes to the Island royally stink!! I have refused to use consumables to this point on any character for any quest/mish but am giving in for this area. If I could take enough characters to at least be 6 vs. 6 that would be good but most mobs are at least 6 (couple of times have faced a mob of 8) and with only a group of 4; plus, their rezzes; plus their multiple skill bars.... The rewards are simply not worth the hassle -- the weapons of purity are pretty lame looking; and the drops are -- as noted above -- dismal. Other than doing it for the story line with my GWAMM, I would have avoided WOC with my other characters.....

FINALLY...vq Chos against the scavengers -- 236 kills to vq....used the 3 Hero spirit build; took just a bit over 2.5 hours; wiped once; my MM died at least 30x; I died about 8x -- usu because tried to pull a group and was killed before could manage to get back to the spirits. Used some pumpkins & pies. Found that presetting the spirits and then pulling worked best. I hate to micro the heros but needed this vq to complete the titles so... Also, not a single chest in the area; no gold drops; no tomes; all whites -- uggh....Die And Serve Me