Talk:The Norn Fighting Tournament/Archive 1

Possibly PvP?
Im wondering is there gonna be PvP Fighting Tournament also and you could be able to make own tournaments, when game will be released? Or is it just fighting computer ppl?
 * So far we've only seen fighting computer opponents, rather than PvP. (Kisai and Sogolon, specifically.) I doubt it will be PvP, as it's designed to be a minigame to curry favour with the Norns, rather than an actual test of strength. --Valentein 13:31, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It looks really easy, seeing as how they won at full health with a smiting monk. Imagine what an ele or war can do...or a sin that kills them right away:D.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:29, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * They also had 10 health and mana regen. Perrsun 16:50, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Thats what I was gonna say lol...must be a norn form or something.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:25, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If a Monk with Heal Party and Smiting skills can win, then this better not be PvP (Otherwise, RA has competition). Also, is it just me, or is the video prior to it the definition of strange. Rlly...wth? Readem (talk *contribs ) 20:42, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The devs probably made it so they get all that regen...but still...you fight henchman? That seems pretty easy...just go for great jsutice-enraging-sever-gash-dragon slash-dragon slash-dragon slash adn they're dead...lol.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 12:36, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm lookin foward to this :)Warior kronos 14:02, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sliver armor, obsidian flesh, backfire, price of failure,there are many skills and builds that makes 1V1 a fairless fight--Kuritsutian 09:15, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You may use PvE skills. It must be PvE. --[[Image:Warrior's_Endurance.jpg|18px]] numma_cway 14:38, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Izzy must have had fun with this one...
Okay, this game is friggin' awesome, by the way. Costs 100g to get in, and believe me, you'll be broke by the end of the day. The builds used in here are pretty awesome, and random...

Let's see now.
 * Mhenlo uses Whirling Defense and Throw Dirt.
 * Sogolon learned a new trick: "Watch Yourself!".
 * The Great Zehtuka starts up Whirling Defense, Throw Dirt, then he starts... TRAPPING. For the loss.
 * Lukas is surprisingly tough, with his Hamstorm build running at full power. (Glyph of Lesser Energy, Bed of Coals, Hamstring, and Firestorm.)

Both Xandra and Kahmu are found in the tournament, and defeating them unlocks them.

Anyone else found anything new yet? -- Jioruji Derako.> 07:53, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm guessing maybe use IW against them? --Blue.rellik 07:57, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah, need to be careful though. Norgu loves his Empathy... Assassins work well on them, if you can manage to kill fast enough. Shadow Prison > attack chain with stuff like Plague Touch works fairly well, as people love Blind (Kisai has Glimmering Mark, and a few others have Throw Dirt). You don't actually need to kill your foes, only get them low on health; so you have a slight advantage there. But you're at a disadvantage having to plan ahead for conditions, hexes, spells and melee, all on one character... final fighter in the tournament is a Norn, and he'll kick in Bear form and hit for 200~300 damage with his hammer, from what I've heard. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 08:16, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * So you can only use 1 build for the whole thing? Well that does blow --Blue.rellik 08:22, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Little Thom uses Hamstorm! To be exact:




 * --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 13:18, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah, you're right... Lukas had some silly build with Auspicious Parry. (I lost to him... T.T) --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 19:05, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Just beat Magni the Bison...here are some facts.
Apparantly, the builds the opponents run vary, either according to your own profession or some other factors. For me, a Ranger, Mhenlo was a 55 (yes, damnit), Little Thom was Hamstorm, Zehtuka was a trapper, Morgahn was using Apply Poison and Troll Unguent, Vhang was a blindbot with Mystic Regeneration and Armor of Sanctity...(the only one I consistently couldn't beat).

I had very little trouble with most of the opponents; Cripple and interrupts are beyond godly in a 1v1 situation like this. However, Magni the Bison is a whole different story. Even if you interrupt his Bear Form (which is fairly easy to do with a Flatbow and RtW), he'll come at you with Irresistible Blow to punish your blocking stances, will remove conditions with Purge Signet, will land 200-300 damage hammer blows, and an unholy amount of health. He may have hex removal too, but I don't know, and indeed, his build may be different for different professions. I only just barely managed to beat him after many, many attepts (in fact, it was a double KO, but the game counted it as a win for me...) We should definitely write up some build suggestions by profession, in the same way as the Guide_to_defeating_doppelganger article. Arshay Duskbrow 10:45, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I had Mhenlo as a 55 as well. I only beat him because I brought a vamp weapon (thank god). Zehtuka had a Fragility trap build, which would have hilariously pwned me if I hadn't brought in Ebon Vanguard Support (gogo level 10 assassin!) to distract him. Same with Gwen, she brought in a Signet of Midnight degeneration build which also kept me frustrated, until I pulled the same trick. --Kale Ironfist 11:04, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * As an Assassin, I've run into all the same builds; I don't think they change based on profession, but there's an awful lot of people, so testing it might take a bit. PvE skills are definitely a big help, because otherwise, you've got to plan ahead for nearly every condition and fighting style in the game. (Mhenlo alone will need to be beaten with condition removal AND enchantment removal... I'll probably just use my touch ranger though.) A guide would be nice, and a good place to start listing off all these builds that the NPCs have... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 19:09, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I too am using a ranger in the tournament. I've gone though it 6 times and haven't had any problems with the opponents, except Bison.  I've been using a build With Burning Arrow, Screaming Shot, natural Stride, Poison Tip Signet, Steam (for blindness with Burning Arrow) and Rust, so that I have time to use distracting shot on Bison's Purge Signet.  It's a sound concept, but I've yet to make it work.  I simply spend too much time trying to run out of his attack range.--Ninjatek 19:13, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I eventually worked out a build that I could use to (fairly) consistently defeat him, although timing and interrupting certain skills are key.


 * I got the idea from the "Lightning Hammer" build, which has always been a favorite of mine. Basically, you interrupt Bear Form with Savage at the start, you Distract Irresistible Blow, and use the KD from "Like A Dwarf" along with "On Your Knees" to continually recharge Lighting Reflexes, with Prepared to keep the energy going while the Poison and Bleed eats away at him. It is a matter of luck though. Even with LR up constantly, he can still get some lucky hits in, and it doesn't take very many...also, Distracting IB is crucial. But this does work, I got my Crown by using this method. Have fun! Arshay Duskbrow 22:23, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

I did it as a Ranger too... Finally. Here is my build.

Its a modified touch ranger. I'd start out with a short bow equipped. I discovered that if I hit Distracting Shot as I was running in, still out of range, it would be timed perfectly to interrupt the initial bearform. I made sure to put poison on that first shot to make Bison use his Purge Signet. Then I would blind him and switch to a weapon set with good energy. (see Touch Ranger build for good weapons on this) This build breezes through all the other opponents, its only a tricky with Bison. Just remember to poison him before you throw blind on him and you'll do OK. Mcbain68 22:50, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Warrior/Necro Build:

I Just beat Bison. It takes a couple of goes to get it right, but once u do its easy.

The few I found difficult to beat were Lucas with the riposte build and Melonni with her Avatar of Dwayna. Against Lucas simple wack him till ur adrenaline is full, then wait for him to get u to 200HP. At this point hit him once, and activate Grenths Balance. Follow up with plague touch if ur bleeding, or barbarous slice if ur not, gash and final thrust. Works most times.

Against Melonni just let her wack away at u until u nearly die. Grenths Balance, Barbarous, Gash, Sun and Moon Slash and Final Thrust. Should Kill her.

Against bison wait until he is nearly at u before casting Spinal. Once he gets to u, simply wack at him. Use Bonettis whenever it recharges, and Grenths whenever u need HP as it does alot of damage to him. Barbarous Gash, Sun + Moon and Final Thrust and he should be dead.

Need Icy Weapon... Max Sword, 9 Curses 9 + 1 Tactics Luminarus 01:46, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

I found the standard Critical Sin Build to do wonders against Bison.

Critical Strikes: 12+1 Dagger Mastery: 10+1+3  Shadow Arts: 7  Earth Prayers: 4

May take a few tries to get to him though. I beat Gwen with this build. Lost to Norgal (thinks thats his name). Just hope you get lucky and fight all melee attackers. :) --209.33.42.252 02:23, 26 August 2007 (CDT)Trice Battle

Location
Where do I find this Tournament? 84.136.189.52 12:40, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * nvm, found it. 84.136.189.52 13:26, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Good builds
I'm willing to bet that a Burning Arrow Ranger with Remove Hex instead of rezz sig would beast here. You've got good dmg, 2 interrupts, degen, hex and condition removal. What else ya need? frvwfr2 (T/C) 13:10, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * A repeatedly applicable snare to defeat the last boss and something to outdamage Mystic Regeneration. 84.136.189.52 13:26, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Natural Stride is nice... I don't even know where this is though, so... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C) 13:27, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I used Grenth balance, Dual Riposte, Sever, Gash, Plague Touch, an Enchtantment Removal, Wild Blow, Flail on my war. Just pray that you dont get that Mystic Regeneration/Blinding Flash/Mind Shock Ele. Dunno about Rangers. This is in Gunnars Hold, Southeast corner, take Magnis quest and pay 100 gold to the guy near him to enter the tourney.84.136.189.52 13:31, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * And I bet that a Mesmer with Clumsiness, Ineptitude and Backfire works wonders here, add Healing Breeze (yeah, Healing Breeze) and an Enchantment Removal and you're good to go. 84.136.189.52 13:49, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Nah, not HB, Restful Breeze. And I bet Signet of Midnight, not Ineptitude is better. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C) 14:04, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The BA Ranger at least got me to the end, and yes it can overpower Mystic Regen. I've heard the BM's can be good, as long as you get them to aggro the pet. Devona is crazy, she used Death's Charge and BackBreaker spiked me, lol. BBreaker, Crushing=GG. Shoulda used Natural Stride, DOH! [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C) 14:11, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Now that I think of it, YAA! would be GREAT, or even an SP sin maybe? [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C)
 * SP sins will have problems with blocking stances. No, wait. Exposed.84.136.189.52 14:15, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, use Expose->SP->BLS->HotO->FS->TF. The KD stops things such as Bear Form, which is DEADLY, and no self heal shouldn't matter if they get killed fast enough... the Ele uses Blinding Flash though... [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C) 14:19, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Here is my warrior build : Sever Artery/Gash/Fear Me/Auspicious Parry/Riposte/Deadly Riposte/Remove Hex/Healing Signet (12 Tactics, 12 Swordmanship). Works great on all melee opponents you'll fight (including Magni). Just use Auspicious Parry, Riposte and Deadly Riposte. Paragons aren't a problem either. On casters, use Auspicious Parry on their staff attacks, then Fear Me, so they'll run quickly out of energy. Eve is a bit hard at beginning, but won't be a problem with some practice. Just try to remove SS and Insidious Parasite. With this build, a run is 5-10mn long, depending on your opponents. Zun
 * Zun's build works very well. I have altered it slightly replacing Sever Artery and Gash with Barbarous Slice (requires NF) and adding "For Great Justice!". This allows for "Fear Me!" to refresh after 2 hits. It took me a while to get used to it but once you get the hang of it, it works very well. Here is the template code for those that are interested: OQMTEHKX5Bx6WsjDGCzVplEAAA

A 55 spoil victor necro works for almost any opponent. The only problematic and possibly unbeatable foes are Nika because of Shattering Assault and Devona because of Shadow Refuge, Healing Signet and slow hammer attacks. For Nika, cover enchantments and quick re-application of PS should work. Bring Protective Spirit, Essence Bond, Balthazar's Spirit, Mending, Spoil Victor, Blood Renewal, Plague Touch, Optional. Melonni uses Avatar of Dwayna, so you have to wait until it wears off. --Roland of Gilead (talk) 14:44, 24 August 2007 (CDT) For Necros, I like "Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support" and "Summon Flesh Golem". Just summon the Sin outside the enemy's aggro bubble and exploit the corpse that'll immediately appear! :D ~  Gold  <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 16:57, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Beguiling Haze seems to work well...


 * ...works on the casters, because they don't start up until you finish casting Mark on them, and then Haze interrupts their first spell. Dazing doesn't help on the melee though, but you can still beat them. I'm off to try some more gimmick builds. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 19:30, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * This build worked well on my Ritualist: ...


 * ...place the spirits just outside the door, wait for energy to recharge between each spirit, only use Dissonance if you need the interrupt, cast Nightmare Weapon and agro then painbond, pull (and tank) foe slightly off to one side so AoE does not kill spirits. Consume Corpse is a safety net, use it on a dying spirit if your health is low. --Heurist 22:09, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Fighting Game references.
The spectators around the arena mention things about the opponent you face, and many times there's a reference to a fighting game: Rival Schools, King of Fighters, The Rumble Fish(that one made me laugh) Street Fighter, etc. And it seems that Anet decided to make the spectators while you fight Koss to say quotes from Anchorman.Concerned Citizen 17:51, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Your Help Needed - Compiling Opponent's Builds
The main article hasn't started this yet and I figured it would get messy if done in the Talkpage. So, I compiled a list at User:Entropy/NFT of all the enemies and what skills I've seen them use so far. Please add to this repository, and also post any successful builds if you want. I figure this would be a good starting point from which we can eventually update the mainpage, and eventually make it look like the Guide to Defeating Doppeganger. Thanks! 24.6.147.36 00:17, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Invincible Monking's Heaven
Seriously if you have a invincible monking build u basically can farm this. Invincible monking includes This totally put Paragon into disgrace, I used it I won twice I was so happy cause 90% of the time I died due to the fact its party support. Kullwarrior
 * Assassin -Critical Defense
 * Derverish -Mystic Regeneration (no enchant removal)
 * Necromancer -SV 55monk
 * Monk -55 monk of course

Great build
A guy on wiki posted a 99% effective Me/N build to farm this Tournament. I can't test it, because I don't have pre-order or Signet of Illusions on Mesmer, but... Well, it's here:

Fast Casting 12+3, Illusion 12+1+3 Start with SoI, AE, Assassin, then immediately WoD, SoI, Assassin, Shinking Armor, SoI, Asassin, Necrosis. For tougher enemies, at the end use Insidious Parasite and spam Necrosis. Here is a nice video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZnBd-_0FW4 &mdash; Abedeus   10:45, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Ranger??
any sure way to win with a ranger??? I cant seem to beat him!!!

Try to have 14 expertise, put the rest into Marksmanship and possibly Wilderness Survival. Keep melee fighters crippled, kite away from them while doing considerable damage and degen through Poison Tip Signet + Sloth Hunter's Shot. Daze casters with Concussion Shot to make them mostly harmless, use other interrupts as needed. Cripshot + kiting works on Magni too. If you accidentally let him get to melee range (or lag a bit) trigger Whirling Defense to avoid a quick death. Argo (and possibly other eles too) heals himself very fast through spamming spells; try to Drain his attunement at the start before he covers it with something else to limit his spellcasting. 88.85.130.54 16:15, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Spirit Spammer on Rit Secondary
See: User:Thor79/Builds/Spirit_Spammer_for_Norn_Tourney --Thor79••Talk 16:16, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

This has worked on my low energy profession (Paragon) with the following 2 steps Yamagawa 17:54, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) Drop Nightmare Weapon for Offering of Spirit (elite) for energy management.
 * 2) Bring spellcaster weapons to boost max energy to about 45 (could throw in a low energy set for closer to 60 energy, + energy armor for another dunno... 20 energy, but why overkill things?)
 * Great build, mate! Thank you for posting it. This may sound a little pathetic but so far I had little luck doing this quest with my monk. Here's a little suggestion though. There's a slim chance Magni will deliver a blow or two, and that may cause a death quickly. So I left Nighmare Weapon home and brought Protective Spirit to maintain on myself after setting up the spirits. It's a good way to prevent 'accidents'. ;) —[ Adul ] 19:10, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Keep Shadowsong up and you won't have to worry about that...he might get one hit but while blinded chances are he'll miss. Also created a page for the build in my userspace. Thanks for the tip Yamagawa...I'll add it to my page. I've replaced Nightmare weapon with an Optional slot...so I'll add in Offering of Spirit in the Variants section.--Thor79•[[Image:User-thor79.png]]•Talk 20:13, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Generaly, I spread the spirits out in an arc around the foe. This has the added effects:
 * Foes actualy charge a spirit to attack it rather than hap-hazardly mull over attacking while running back and forth dodging spirit attacks
 * You can dodge past spirits, letting your hapless attacker get body-blocked on them
 * The final boss somehow manages to still kill 3 of these spirits, despite blindness, before finally sucumbing to a 2nd painful bond. Yamagawa 02:31, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Taming the Bison
I've just been using the degen+run away approach on my Me/A.

Fast Casting 3+1, Illusion Magic 12+2, Inspiration Magic 6+1, Deadly Arts 7, Shadow Arts 9. With IW thrown in to take care of the first 5 chumps, it's easy as pie. Use a caster melee weapon+shield for the normal contenders, then switch to a staff for M. Bison to get 50 energy. Start with Phantom Pain, he'll Purge Signet. Immediately Burden, AI, Nightmare, Pain. Stay relatively close to him so you can hit Siphon as soon as he Purges again. If you have max energy, you can use Nightmare without AI. It should work out that you use AI on Nightmare every other time. Note the duration of Siphon, and recast it when necessary. When he Purges again, Burden. Rinse and repeat. And remember to run away: meleeing him, even with Neutrality up, is liable to get you killed.

Also note, against the Shattering Assault sin you must run away and use the slowing technique. Against Argo, focus on staying alive and do not engage him until he runs out of energy. Nobody else I met lasted long against the IW/FN combo. -Rette Alarix 199.74.99.111 10:59, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

[opponent's name] as [build]
should we compile a list and put the opponent's name as [build] like how its Mhenlo, as 55 Monk. another example is Eve, as SS or Koss, as Shock Warrior. --Mrguildboi 18:27, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Maybe we should just make this page into an official page, since it has so much more information than anything else --Gimmethegepgun 19:12, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I say we work on both for now, then once we've got everything up and running, figure something out. Entropy's page would make a great official article as a build list, while we could keep this article as a shorter list of foes and a basic explanation of the tournament. Maybe use Entropy's article as a "Guide to the Norn Fighting Tournament" article or something? --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 19:22, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Magni is not always the final fight
After beating Magni five times, the sixth time he was replaced by Palawa and his minions. Anyone else notice something like that? —[ Adul ] 19:32, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, I saw Palawa instead once... was wondering about that too. - <font size="1" color="green">Spectrus <font size="1" style="text-decoration: overline">T 18:23, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Opponent Listing Format Idea
Check it: ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 22:03, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * alesia is a wammo not w/a :)-Mrguildboi 22:22, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm just showing the formatting, I'm not showing the data. ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]]<font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 22:28, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * oh... well its a pretty cool idea.-Mrguildboi 22:53, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Looks pretty good; you probably don't even need the show/hide box (I think there was already something about keeping that formatting out of articles, because it's so complicated, and makes it hard for just anyone to edit). Simple mini-skillbars are easy to fit though, and can give people a good look at what they'll be facing without having to look at a guide. Then, we can have a separate guide article, for people who don't already know how every build works. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 00:21, 26 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I only put that Show/Hide box in there so it wouldn't clutter up the talk page. ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]]<font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 05:30, 26 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Okay, cool. But yeah, once we've figured out at least most of the skillbars, maybe after the game goes live, I think we should implement that design. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 06:18, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Super Norn Fighter II Turbo
Anyone notice the last boss is called M.Bison? - jzf.
 * Already a trivia/reference on Magni the Bison --Mrguildboi 00:17, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Increasing difficulty?
I've noticed that certain opponents only show up in the earlier rounds and others only later. Like I've never seen Alesia or Little Thom with their inspirational builds after round 2, and never seen Mhenlo anywhere but round 5. I've not been in a lot, but I think increasing difficulty makes sense. - <font size="1" color="green">Spectrus <font size="1" style="text-decoration: overline">T 18:27, 26 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, that seems to be the case. -- Gordon Ecker 18:45, 26 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I've fought Mhenlo in round 3 before, and fought Alesia in round 5 once, so I'd dispute that. DKS01 00:08, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well actually, in my build, Alesia is much harder the defeat than Mhenlo, so its probably random.. or set by complexity of build possibly? 55 monk is more complex than wammo.