User talk:Gares Redstorm

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Real World Guild Wars Class
Taking the quiz brought to my attention by Phoenix on Fun page created by Gem.

My results for the Prophecies quiz:

Mesmer 75% Warrior	75% Necromancer 50% Elementalist 40% Ranger 35% Monk 20%

Even had a tiebreaker question between Mesmer and Warrior, it was that close. --Gares Redstorm 09:52, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

My results for the Factions edition quiz:

Warrior	94% Assassin 81% Mesmer 75% Ritualist 69% Elementalist 63% Ranger 63% Monk 44% Necromancer 44%

No tiebreaker here, but I guess even with my charm ;), I still have a fighter mentality. -Gares Redstorm 12:51, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

Sigma
This decidedly unhappy individual is spreading joy in the build section through his intelligent, carefully thought and sensible votes. Cough. But that's to be expected and not much can be done about it, I guess. But... as if that weren't enough, he's also insulting other people who disagree with him: "Some idiots unfavored it.. IT REALLY WORKS!!" on his user page. I'm sure I can find other examples, but this one sounded pretty straightforward. Check the recent history - Curiously enough, he just deleted a gigantic section of his page which included this comment. Ah yes, definitely the behavior of a guiltless person with a clear conscience :)) NightAngel 14:16, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * grown up* -- SigmA 14:19, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Don't insult people, wich you think that are insulting, especially people with more experience. I know what I am doing (okay I am not, but whatever) -- SigmA 14:21, 20 February 2007 (CST)

You were the one who insulted, first the voters on your build, then me. I called you unhappy, I don't really think that's quite on the same level, but if you do, I'm sorry, i'm sure you're actually a happy and cheerful individual. :) You were the one who insulted, first the voters on your build, then me. I called you unhappy, I don't really think that's quite on the same level, but if you do, I'm sorry, i'm sure you're actually a happy and cheerful individual. :) At any rate, I've already learned the lesson of "make one remark and leave it at that, don't pursue endless arguments, etc", so I won't answer your "grow up" and "I'm more experienced than you" comments, even though I'm itching to point out some things. Control yourself! Happy Bunnies! Happy Bunnies! There, I'm better now :) Sigma, you fluffy bunny, talk to Gares, not to me ok? NightAngel 14:24, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Someone is even looking at my userpage ?:| wow, you must be the first one. -- SigmA 14:26, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * Anytime I vote against someone, I tend to check out their userpage...and whenever I see those big, bold numbers in Recent Changes -1004 then that makes me curious. But on to the topic. NightAngel, I can share some of your concerns, because I also disagree with some votes Sigm@ has made. However, remember the vetting policy - you dun have to have any reason to vote, and you can't say that Sigm@ leaves behind incoherent or patently false reasons (unlike some do...) As to Sigm@, I think that it is a bit unfair for NightAngel to single you out, because you are not an especially bad voter nor a really notorious one; also considering the fact this is brought up on Gares' page and not Sigm@'s where it belongs. A user's right to vote can't be bound and so logically there is no reason for others to criticize what are probably good faith votes. But I would ask you to please consider builds a bit more thoroughly before voting, because sometimes it does seem you jump to conclusions before actually thinking of a build. Anyway that's my two cents. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:34, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Quick note: I was afraid of this. "not much can be done about it, I guess". I acknowledge his right to vote anyway he pleases according to current rules. The "idiots", "grow up" comments are the real issue here. Just wanted to make that clear! This is not a discussion on the vetting procedure. NightAngel 14:40, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Grow up? -- SigmA 14:41, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * Uhm. Sigm@ said "grown up", not Grow Up. That is in reference to him cleaning out the offending part of the userpage (I assume). As to the "Idiots" note, I don't think you can criticize someone for what they put on their userpage...there are far worse ones out there, and even in the Builds section itself, lots of ugly mudslinging often goes unpunished. Above this thread you linked to Build talk:Rt/any Wielders Weapon. Now, that is what I would call a problem - a user clearly insulting another, insults thrown back and forth, profanity, dicksize arguments, etc etc. I don't see Sigm@ doing any of that. He doesn't even single out any particular users. And I would even tend to agree with him, to some extent - some of the votes on the Decapitate build were "idiotic" (mine not included ofcourse :P), at least from a standpoint of someone who supported the build. It's not a whole lot of an offense if you ask me. Heck, I have gotten away with worse and noone complains... -.- I'd say it's a nonissue but I guess it's up to Gares to decide. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:48, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Oh, I got banned after a warning given for saying "Jeezes, are you all friggin' insane?" (which, btw, doesn't mean I think they are literally crazy, it's just an expression of amazement, I believe. Not a native speaker of English but I do try to keep up with popular expressions and idioms for my work). So yeah, "Idiots" should qualify too. And yes, I'm a bitter person. The bunnies can bite me. (that should be painful) NightAngel 14:52, 20 February 2007 (CST)

WTB Humor. -- SigmA 14:55, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Response to Gares: Winterborn complained that the argument was disrupting his build, so I was obliging him. And yes, of course I think arguing with TheDrifter was wrong. And that doesn't mean I think the ban was warranted, no. After all, people make mistakes like calling people retards and idiots, and nothing happens to them, so it can't be always worth a ban can it? Or even a warning? I think that stealing is wrong, but I don't suggest cutting people's head off for it (or for anything else, for that matter). So what is it? Is it ok to insult on your user page? Is it ok to insult just once? Is it ok to insult if you're a certain age? Is it ok to insult if it's someone you know, and not ok if it's a stranger? You might just lose your patience (if you still have any :) ) and say that it's ok to insult whenever you say it is, and that's it, and maybe that is your right (surprisingly, that's not irony or sarcasm, I really wonder if you can do that. Maybe you can, in which case I'll probably be perma-banned anytime soon now :) Goodbye cruel world? NightAngel 18:19, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * First off, NightAngel received a 1 day ban for trading insults with TheDrifter. He did not disregard TheDrifter's comments, but decided to attack in response, both disrupting a user's build talk page in which the user had no recourse but to inform someone. This incident not only continued on the build talk page, but on a user's talk page as well.


 * I am not sure if he and SigmA have crossed paths in the past, but seeing as how he seems to want some action against SigmA and does not seem to want to wait for a response suggests that he does have something against SigmA. The correct action in this situation would have been to go to SigmA's talk page and ask him to remove the text. If he refused or acted inappriorately, then I would see a reason to contact an admin. There is an inital options section in GW:NPA, to give users a basis on which to follow and also states to not let yourself become confrontational or hostile.


 * After NightAngel's initial response on this talk page, SigmA removed the potentially offensive material and stated that he had grown up. NightAngel's recourse was that SigmA had insulted him somehow. NightAngel also insinuated that SigmA's deletion of said offensive material was an admission of guilt, when NightAngel did the same thing with the material for which he believes he was wrongly banned for.


 * Reviewing the text found in this thread and on Entropy's talk page has lead me to believe that NightAngel is using SigmA has a martyr for something he feels very emotional about and accusing other users of personal attacks is not something that should be taken lightly, especially when the accused did not defend his content and instead removed it. Even after the removal and accusation that removing the content was an admission of guilt, SigmA did not respond in kind.


 * In summary, SigmA seemed to not see the potentially offensive material as offensive and once he was aware that someone(NightAngel) did find it offensive, he promptly removed it. SigmA was in fault and corrected it after he was made aware of it. I don't believe administrative action is called for in this instance. If anyone feels differently on this decision, please contact LordBiro or another admin to review this discussion. &mdash; Gares 19:37, 20 February 2007 (CST)

So... lemme get this straight. When someone makes a complaint about me on something, I can just remove it quickly if I'm online, and then nothing bad will happen to me, as long as I myself don't think it was offensive? Ok. Got it. And if that person has some reason for disliking me, than it doesn't even count for much. Understood, thank you. Oh right, and I should also receive a request from that person who is complaining, to give me the option of correcting my actions. He shouldn't go straight to an administrator before even saying a word to me. No problem. Ps: obviously, I misunderstood his comment on grown up. I got the message loud and clear on how much more experienced he is, and on how my sense of humor pales in comparison though. Yeah, because this is all obviously extremely funny right? Sigh. NightAngel 21:01, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * Your sarcastic tones have not gone unnoticed. If my decision has been unsatisfactory for you, please take it up with another admin, nothing is set in stone. A policy, however detailed, remains black and white and it is for an admin to judge the gray. It is preferred that users try to handle it between each other, it is not mandatory. A user can inform an admin about another user's action at any time, but it does not mean that the requesting user will automatically get his/her way. &mdash; Gares 21:56, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Above post was not sarcastic in fact, I was summing up your arguments so I know where I stand. And as far as I can tell, it is thus: a small violation can be corrected immediately without further reprisals, a larger one will be immediately punished. And never make any personal comment on anyone else, like the drifter. I still think that rule is a bit confusing though, considering the huge amount of personal comments I see running around. Apparently it's ok to make small remarks, as long as your foe doesn't respond in kind? or if he does, then you do nothing? I'm sorry but it still seems like "people who have been around and know other people can get away with stuff", others are immediately warned on stuff like "jeezes you're insane". That warning, gares, really gets to me. It smacked of bullying for somethign that was quite inoffensive. And, of course, it laid the ground for the later banning. Because I see people doing much worse than that and absolutely nothing happens to them. In fact, to my recollection no one complained directly about that remark, you just saw it yourself right? Ps: I think there are few sentences more likely to provoke an opposite reacion than "easy, calm down, you're too emotional". Sounded condescending. And I know what the answer will be... "take it up to another admin if you don't like it". Right. :( Given the amount of stress i've had here with other users and the way the admins are friends, I seriously doubt any of them would see things my way, and I don't blame them. NightAngel 22:12, 20 February 2007 (CST)

/yawn.. what are you whining about exactly? -- SigmA 05:45, 21 February 2007 (CST)

I'm tired. Sigma doesn't matter, he can call anyone he wants anything he wants. The bored, seen-it-all 16 year old. It would be funny, if I had any sense of humor. THe builds don't matter, most people just want to throw away the entire section. Gares doesn't matter, he's doing what he thinks is right and fair and will probably be very pleased with himself regardless of what anyone else says. And in the end, Guild Wars doesn't really matter that much, or shouldn't. Over and out. I'll stop giving a rat's behind about what other people say or do, except when it targets me directly, in which case I'll just ignore them. I have no idea why I gave a crap, I plead temporary insanity and my short temper NightAngel 06:44, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Don't be a wimp, NightAngel. You give up too easily. Waxing defeatist doesn't mix well with your contribution history. Where is the fiery defender of Necromancers that I once knew? Where is the level-headed voter who helped keep the Builds section running? What has...aw, screw it, you wanna leave noone's stopping you. "Okthxbye", come back in a few days with new resolve and you'll be surprised that none of this really ever mattered. Just like you say. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:00, 21 February 2007 (CST)

I'm not leaving, I'm just stopping this argument :) NightAngel 07:01, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Well you didn't do a very good job of it... >< (T/C) 07:04, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Appreciate the support. I just realized how silly this all was. Who am I kiddin', I love guild wars. And I love arguing, unfortunately. It might sound odd, but I do believe that arguing is productive sometimes. I even on occasion defend vigorously points of view that aren't even mine. If I'm unable to convince anyone else of what I think after trying my best, I'll usually just switch sides and adopt their point of view, and then go on defend it against others. And sometimes I'll partially adopt some new concept and see if it works with my own. It's a really weird process. Ps: and then, of course, there is stuff like TheDrifter. I stood to learn nothing there, which is why I shoud have stopped. I did enjoy arguing with others though. Heck, I use Wastrel's Worry now after my endless discussions with .. Rapta or Auron, can't remember which, on a mesmer's talk page. Here is a little philosophical background for one of my favorite activities :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic NightAngel 07:01, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * I dun like edit conflicts! Well, /highfive then, you can join my new guild, We Love To Debate On Internet [LMAO] . ;) On serious side though...we all have bad days...heck I do wiki at the after midnight hours very often, I know what wikistress feels like. I think the Wiki atmosphere encourages arguing, because of the degree of anonymity, the user protections (GW:NPA), and the way every user is counted as equally valuable (GW:YOU). However as good as it is, and like you say it's conductive, sometimes arguments go bad and they don't stay "sivilised" like Huck Finn says. On those times, even for those arguing the "right" side, we all look stupid...and we lose face...and hence we switch sides or decide to shut out mouthes. :) But not always fast enough...which is why Gares does what he does... etc etc.
 * As to TheDrifter...I dun say anything there, "no comment" as they say for PC/PR. WW? You might have discussed it with me, I have told plenty folks the usefulness of WW. Lastly, that gives me bad memories of an stupid English assignment "Dialectic Journals", but I will check it out anyways. >< Any way I am rambling, again, I seem to do that alot at 4:14 AM. Good to see you have come around. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:16, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * PS...Gares, sorry for hijacking your talkpage! But you both did it to mine so it is only fair. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:16, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * NP, Entropy. Happens all the time ;)


 * At NightAngel, I am sorry you feel or felt the way you did. I do not take pleasure in what I do in these situations and it takes more than posting what comes to my mind when making decisions such as these. I have to think long and hard, review everything I can think of, and then make a choice. The reason you believed "He doesn't dignify people with an answer, because he clearly thinks they are all beneath his vast experience and knowledge," is due to the fact I was reviewing information in-between doing my job. I volunteer at wiki, but my real life comes first. I needed a haircut yesterday after work and I decided not to rush home to answer but take care of real life, as it is my job and looking sharp that pays my bills.


 * There is a difference between arguing and debating, but you should never give up defending your point of views. However, I believe a change in the way you do it would still get your point across and would not stress you so much. Going back again about me being pleased with my decision, I have learned being mods for forums and real life scenarios like working as a bouncer for a number of years, is that you should never take anything personally. I can't tell you to become detached from your feelings in these situations, but that is what I do. Suprisingly and some other wikians know I am a very different person off-wiki.


 * Any decision I make or an any admin makes is a hard one and will not please everyone involved. I know there are users out there watching my actions right now in hopes I break the GW:NPA, so they can come after me. I said and it's a promise that if I break policy I expect to be banned. I don't even need a warning, because if I say something to violate it, then I know I deserve punishment. But that is my point of view and not others. I hope the dust can settle around this discussion and everyone can get back to working to make Wiki a positive place to contribute. But don't think you can't ever come to me nor feel you should back down from defending your point of view. &mdash; Gares 08:00, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Uhm, small Freudian slip Gares, that comment you quoted was directed at Sigm@ and not you. Don't take things personally. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:03, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Me? Take things personally? *gasps* I am shocked and dismayed at your accusation. :D I struck it out. Everything else still seems relevant. This is what happens when an old man (25) doesn't get enough sleep watching Adult Swim all night. &mdash; Gares 08:11, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Dam, she's quicker than me. Yeah, I was referring to the many unanswered protests (including mine) to Sigma's votes. And I'm not at all ashamed to change my mind. I even got some flak from TheDrifter for it, because I originally despised Order of Undeath (and thus unfavored his build), and now it's the only MM elite I use. Some core beliefs are obviously not quite open to argument, but the peripheric ones (and anything related to an online game certainly qualifies) are certainly quite flexible. NightAngel 08:13, 21 February 2007 (CST)

What's the problem exaclty? -- SigmA 08:20, 21 February 2007 (CST)

With people who don't change their minds? (I'm pretty sure that's not what you asked for, but irony is tough to detect in the Internet) THey have locked ways of thinking, unable to adapt, learn and change with their environment. It is dangerous as heck, especially in the hands of powerful people like politicians, capable of getting entire countries into horrible messes that then become unsolvable. Changing your mind, you see, is seen as a sign of weakness. NightAngel 08:24, 21 February 2007 (CST)

...? -- SigmA 08:34, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * @SigmA: Please read today's posts. Not sure what you are confused about, but everthing is in there. If you still have any questions, please reword them to where other users know what part of the discussion you are having trouble with. &mdash; Gares 08:44, 21 February 2007 (CST)