Talk:Needling Shot

Since there is no variation in the lower attribute rank, i think it's safe to assume that the damage per lvl will continue with an additional 1 damage per rank- Only a Shadow
 * never safe to assume anything with the progressions, anet likes to mess with the curve outside of 0-12. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 12:49, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

Being a 1 second cast time bow attack, would this work like Quick Shot, firing instantly? --hellochar 12:23, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
 * not instantly, but not the normal 2 second firing animation. lots of ranger spike teams use this to finish a spike with a rapid set of arrows. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 12:49, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

Doubt
Well, I may be having a false perception... but, with marksmanship at 16 attribute points Needling Shot makes 21 damage, nevertheless, without Needling Shot the average damage is, surely, more than 21 for a 100 armor target (tested in the Isle of the Nameless)... think there are critical hits -which enhance plain damage- which are nulified by Needling Shot! What is it which makes this skill usefull? ... Is it that arrows go faster and missing is less likely? Is it to be certain of making 21 damage average at an exact time which you may need it? Thank you.--mariano 09:39, 28 August 2006 (CDT)

I love this skill, its good with Kindling Arrows. I imagine it'd be even more powerful as a R/E, where with a Fiery bow (and ele's fire skill) u can easily do 60 dmg a shot, combined with ur normal attack..insane--karthego


 * This skill is "useful" as Protector's Strike is useful. However, since I believe Rangers aren't exactly a damage powerhouse anyway, this skill is near...worthless, in my opinion. Also, it isn't near as useful as Protector's Strike is, with a 1s cast time. EDIT: Fine, it is useful in some cases, for example ranger spike. But on an ordinary ranger, without a spike that 20~ damage is not very useful.LightningHell 09:26, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
 * the use of this skill is in the fact that it can be fired every second as a finishing spree, add read and favorable and it's twice as fast and more damaging then a standard bow attack. it is a bit of a heafty trade, though. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:14, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

It's great with just Read, especially for finishing off high armor targets. Arshay Duskbrow 21:46, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

So, for 5 energy you get an arrow that does less dmg than a normal arrow! as a bonus, you can instantly spend ANOTHER 5 energy on an arrow that does less dmg than a normal arrow if your target is below 50% health. Leetsauce. -Thomas 10:57, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Expertise. A user of Needling shot would depend on skills such as Read the Wind/Glass Arrows, Vampiric Strings, Favorable Winds, Order of Pain, Mark of Pain, and perhaps Barbs. Since most of the damage does not come from bow damage, but more from the +damage, the fact that it itself does little damage matters little. Glass Arrows would be my choice since it means more expertise and less marksmanship, and this allows for major runes too. Remember that this is armor ignoring. --Silk Weaker 11:58, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Exactly. It's not 5 energy, it's 2 with proper Expertise. With Read the Wind and a vampiric bow you can do around 35 armor-ignoring damage per second. Even above 50%, that's often more than you can do with normal attacks against high armor targets, and you can use it every 4 seconds. But it also has other uses. You can use it to chain attacks together, because Needling obviously does NOT have an aftercast delay. Marauder's + Needling + Punishing is the secret of my success. Or use it after normal attacks for chaser damage. Or daze your target and it becomes a speed-buffed 4 second interrupt, or a continuous one below 50%. Use it to peg kiting foes with condition preps. Needling Shot is a Ranger's swiss-army knife, and one of the best Ranger skills to come out of Factions, in my opinion. Arshay Duskbrow 21:24, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Crits with this
From Talk:Disrupting Accuracy:

"Although it doesn't do any extra damage, my Needling Shot often returns the energy for being a critical hit..."

Anon/logged out user put this up or I'd bring this to their talk. Should we mention this in the article and/or the List of skill anomalies? --Armond Warblade (talk) 20:08, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I would put it on the article. makes it useful to an A/R who could be gaining energy back instead of drainning his mana pool.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 17:10, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Rather take it out, or change it. Why would it be an anomaly for this skill to have critical hits also, why could a fixed damage skill never score a critical hit? The way it is put in the article now - as something special or noteworthy - made me believe that it would always critical. --Amy Awien 02:31, 21 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Because crits normally do √2*damage? –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 17:01, 22 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Except when a skill does a fixed amount of damage. A hit being critical or not is independent from the damage that will be calculated for it. The damage calculation may factor in the 'critical status' of the hit, but to determine if a hit is critical, the game (obviously) does not look at the damage, even though you and I will look at the damage to determine if there was a critical hit. Compare it to the way D&D worked with critical hits; when a attack roll succesfully hits and the roll exceeds a certain value, a critical hit is scored. Damage hasn't come into the calculation yet. The way it is worded now in the Notes is simply wrong. --Amy Awien 03:09, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

diversion
instant recharge seems too work even when using this skill under diversion hex... may be this should be added to primary page as well?

Buffed!
Ouch, this can actually cause some damage now even without RtW/FW, Winnowing, Conjures, etc...but wait, Conjures got buffed too. I sense that there will be a rash of new R/E soon... (T/C) 18:17, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

And a huge buff, almost double the damage, and it was already useful before. Now it's time for some serious pain. Still combos with RtW, Vampiric, you can do around 45 damage per second under 50%. Arshay Duskbrow 18:18, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

HOLY CRAP, this owns harder than before. Better enjoy it before it gets debuffed. 69.128.205.96 21:16, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

lolz Needling Shot(16)31 + read The Wind(16)10 + Favorable winds6 = 47 Armor-ignoring damage?!? Hax0rs X H K


 * needling shot (25) + glass arrows (19) + favorable winds (6) + brutal weapon (20) + vamp (5) = 75. Was running it 14MMS/14exp with a spiritspammer who took brutal weapon (buffing it to +25) yesterday. I lol'd when both shots on forked arrow critted on a 60AL. 103+103 :P –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 07:00, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

I think a team of 3 Rangers with Needling Shot + 12 markmanship and a Ritualist with Brutal Weapon + 12 comminging would each cause 38 amor ignoring damage each (25+13), without any downtime and no chance of removal, Plus Glass Arrows, Favorable Winds, and Vamperic would bring it to 68 armor ignoring damage. Now 68 damage x 3 Rangers means 204 armor ignoring damage... all the time... woo! -Hesus

Does Spirit's Strength add damage to this skill???

I would expect so it says in the desription of spirit's strength the attacks you make deal more +damage rather than saying "additional damage" which usually indicates a secondary packet of damage. Note that Spirit's Strength should add to the main packet of damage while skills like ignite arrows or conjures there will be two packets. I use Glass arrows + Conjure frost with 10 expertise and 10 water magic which can do around 108 to a 60AL target with a slight hieght advantage and 130-140 with sundering shot. This however leaves no room for WS so instead of troll, I use ice prison as a snare as a) pin down is a condition and most targets have a condition removing item however, b) hex removal is rare besides monks which usually end up to be a pure healer or ZB prot. Also a nice replacement would be lightning reflexes to increase the damage drastically as every shot has a hefty punch behind it making it quite nice if you use ice prison + screaming shot + sundering shot + precision + needling to end. Flechette 07:26, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Yep, spirit's strength DOES add to this skill. However, I was only hitting for about 60, and could be hitting for that much normally, or more if I used nightmare weapon. If you're thinking about using it to spam after you do a normal attack, I'd suggest using an interrupt-type skill instead--Xaerth 17:35, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

Build?
Well with Gwen you could do 92 dmg with the shot and constant if under 50%

Needling shot (26) + Spirit Strength (37) + Great Drawf Weapon (20) + Read the Wind (9) + Favourable Winds (6) + Winnowing (4)

If you use all those skills at once you would do 102 dmg =O (and 92 without the spirits) + 5 for vamp too if you wanted

or you could quick shot it for 66 + (28 base) + 10 sprits = 80+ dmg or so