Talk:Rotscale/Archive 1

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There are actually two "Rotscales". The non-boss level 30 in Majesty's Rest and the lower level (don't know which level exactly, but definitely not 30) boss in Sanctum Cay (mission). How to keep the both of them apart? --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 09:17, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I've never encountered in Rotscales in Sanctum Cay.. Where? Maybe he moved? I plan on doing it again tonight with Henches, so maybe I can confirm. --Karlos 09:25, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * There is this area with the poisonous swamp where you will meet three normal bone dragons. On the opposite side, in front of the gate that leads to the area where you will meet the Vizir (after fighting some giants and imps), there you should encounter a bone dragon boss named Rotscale (ranger profession iirc). --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 09:37, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * The Rotscale in Sanctum Cay (mission) is level 21. Also, he is a Ranger, not a Monk. And he is a boss. -- 23:28, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * See Rotscale (Boss). --Rainith 02:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm ... I think we should merge the two articles. -- 05:23, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree, one is a boss, one isn't. --Rainith 05:26, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * To elaborate a little more, we have normal Minotaurs and the we have the boss Minotaur (Warrior Boss), should those be merged too? There was a discussion about this in, I think, Talk:Boss.  --Rainith 05:41, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That isn't quite the same. Minotaur is a species, this means the generic Minotaurs and the Minotaur bosses are not the same creatures. Rotscale (at least as far as I understand) is a name, this means Rotscale is supposed to be a unique creature. Now the question is: Are there two separate creatures going by the same name, or is it one and the same creature coming in two "appearances". I think it is the latter. And if it's the same creature, then we should cover the two variations in the same article. -- 03:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * P.S.: To me this is similar to - for example - Rif Telourau. He comes in two different flavors too: Level 7. Both are monk bosses, but they use different skill sets. -- 03:23, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * One Rotscale is a Monk and is not a boss (no aura, no skill captures, no morale boost), the other is is a Ranger and is a boss (glowy aura, his skills can be captured, and he gives a morale boost when killed). That seems to me to indicate that they are very different creatures.  As for good old Rif, that's just a difference in level really.  The same thing happens with other creatures that have different levels, Shatter Gargoyles for instance come in 3 different level flavors.  And used different skills depending on those levels.  --Rainith 03:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with Rainith, rottin apples and rottin oranges. Not related. --Karlos 07:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Whatever type of rot it is, all i know is that the rotscale lvl 30 in majestys rest has veeeery little hp for a lvl 30 and that he uses some kind of shout that makes everyone dazed. Nevertheless, i think that Rotscale is not a creature type but they are not the same thing with different levels so i think the best option is to add a note type info the the rotscale(boss) page refering that. -- FBatista 08:11, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Treasure?
I entered the area twice with a few others to kill the rotscale. However, I was disappointed each time as there weren't any guarded chests of treasure to be found! Did they change somethiong? Anyways, I edited that bit out. :) --Talonz 05:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I came across this interesting location today in my quest for Tyrian Cartographer. It seems there is a possibility for a chest to spawn next to Rotscale as can be seen [[Image:Rotscales_treasure.jpg|thumb|right|Rotscale's treasure]] in my screenshot. I wish I could open it, but I can't take that group by myself. -- James Sumners 16:22, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
 * It is nothing special. Just the same as any other Krytan Chest as far as what is in it.  --Rainith 19:24, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
 * It is there nonetheless. -- James Sumners 20:05, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Seems that he drops his own treasure now, the green Rotwing Recurve Bow... Well he seems to have more reason to exist now. --Talonz 01:25, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * He has A LOT more health now too. --Rainith 01:35, 16 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I suspect Anet made a little mistake. Rotscale that drops the bow is a non-boss non-ranger. The one that does now is a boss ranger. I expect this to be changed. - Secret Steve 09:08, 16 June 6 (GMT)

Quest?
Rotscale's temple and guards seem to indicate that he is the end of some kind of quest or mission. I have never seen the quest. Can anyone elaborate on his purpose? He seems too important to be sitting out here as scenery.
 * There is definetly no quest or mission leading players to this remote area. Nor is there any treasure, chest, special drop (akin IDS), skill capture or any other reward/incentive to lure players to Majesty's Rest. It is weird, really. Maybe ANet will do something to this area sometime in future. -- 15:48, 17 February 2006 (CST)
 * This statement from the Factions FAQ on the official site makes me believe that we probably won't see that happen:


 * Will Guild Wars be updated with new content when Guild Wars Factions is released?


 * Producing extensively expanded content for Guild Wars is not planned at this time. The development team is putting its efforts into creating the best possible new release in Guild Wars Factions. It is possible that there will be intermittent updates for Guild Wars that include modest amounts of expanded content or seasonal event content. And of course, updates such as skill balance changes will apply to both Guild Wars and Guild Wars Factions. The bulk of new content development will take place in Factions.
 * --Rainith 00:32, 18 February 2006 (CST)
 * But there might be quests that joins the two chapters together, head west from Lion's Arch into... -PanSola 01:41, 18 February 2006 (CST)


 * My theory


 * I have travelled the world up and down and noted many different NPCs, weird areas, etc, etc, that seem to suggest that ANet had plans here and there and just left the unfinished content in the world. One very talked about unfinished subject is Gwen and all things related to her. Also, most notably in the lower Kryta area there are NPCs that are just standing there with no conversation scripts, i.e. a fisherman in Talmark Wilderness, a village elder in Dakuta Village in the same area, an NPC and crafter near the entrance to Sanctum Cay.


 * I think ANet just got lazy or pressured into releasing GW earlier than expected and never thought the half-finished content to be any importance. :P If you look at the big picture, specialized quests for each class were at the beginning and missions, then generic quests and missions, then one or two quests(mostly to guide the player along in the plot, i.e. Seeking the Seer) and missions, and finally just missions. Just a theory of mine. --Gares Redstorm 01:47, 18 February 2006 (CST)

Origin
Just found this link on the GWG forums. Very cool to see what the world map and story was like at the beginning of the game. One of the more interesting things (IMO) is found if you click on the middle marker in the little patch thing in the lower left corner. It mentions that Rotscale was raised from the dead by the Stone Summit. As this is history and not even canon at this point, it isn't something that should be included in the article. But it is interesting and I thought others here might like to know. --Rainith 20:14, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Bah beat me to it :p Burial grounds used to be called tombs of drascir too? 20:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah, I remember hearing about that one somewhere (possibly here in Drascir or its talk page Edit: Just checked it is in Drascir.). I like how all of Ascalon is set up to be for "parties of four high level characters."  Was the original idea to have everyone max their level in pre-searing?  Or to have everyone start out at lvl 20 like PvP characters do?  --Rainith 20:49, 12 March 2006 (CST)
 * Or possibly to return to Ascalon at a much higher level, very much like The Last Day Dawns and The Titan Source. --Havral Glommon 20:11, 20 March 2006 (CST)
 * Originally there WASN'T a pre-searing. When pre-searing got invented, Anet essentially had to wipe the entire Post-Searing Ascalon map and start over to be consistent with the landscapes of Pre-searing (older version was drastically different).  During beta-testing weekends all characters got a head start in levels for demonstration purposes. -SolaPan 20:31, 20 March 2006 (CST)
 * Human memory is amazing: I did play in that preview event, but I had totally forgotten how different everything looked. Everyone started out at lvl 15 btw. They did change that during the beta weekends, with one weekend focusing on the (revamped, post searing) ascalon area, now with low level characters, one weekend on the Kryta region with lvl 15 characters starting in Lions Arch. During one of the last betaweekends, it was possible for the first time to travel from Ascalon to Lions Arch, but you had to run/fight all the way from Yaks Bend to Lions Arch in one go (and doing so with ~lvl10 characters. One of my most memorable GW experiences).
 * That suggests they did the following order of production:
 * First Ascalon area
 * Kryta
 * Ascalon revamp
 * Rest
 * The people that took part in Alpha should know more about this, but I dont think the high level return to Ascalon was planned from the start. --Xeeron 06:43, 16 June 2006 (CDT)

Oh man, I totally forgot what it was like back then. Anyone remember skill charms? I remember there was a famous set of pictures of a ranger using both Necro and Mesmer skills and soloing Rotscale when his party wiped... Might still be around on one of the old sites like Guild Wars Guru... Also, Maguuma was part of the game starting damn early is my recollection. I loved the game so much more back before we knew all the bugs and all the backwater regions and there wasn't such a developed metagame. --Marxist Hornet 18:55, 23 July 2008
 * You know, that map brings up a good question from nowadays: when Jiaju Tai mentions Ascalon, it seems like she means there's a water route there. But there isn't! On that old map there is, or at least the southern stuff LOOKS like water, but on the current one there is no water path at all --Gimmethegepgun 02:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Rotscale's Revival
Whether you encounter Rotscale in Majesty's Rest or Sanctum Cay his "revival" can be fitted into the storyline. Perhaps you first defeated him at his lair in Majesty's Rest he later returned to slay you in Sanctum Cay. If you vanquished him in Sanctum Cay first, it is possible that he became more powerful, therefore being a level 30 at Majesty's Rest.

After the update
Is he now a necro boss as stated by the update notes? If yes, this article needs updating and this and the Rotscale (Boss) need renaiming. -- 05:22, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * The notes say he's now a necro. I don't see mentio of boss (checking history now) -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 05:48, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Someone should check Sanctum Cay to see if there has been a change to him there. My guess would be not, but that is just a guess.  --Rainith 10:45, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Going now. Back in a few minutes with the info and SoC confirmation. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:49, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * The Sanctum Cay Rotscale was renamed as 'Bone Dragon'. The Bone Dragon is a level 21 necromancer ranger boss with Primal Echoes, Dodge, Choking Gas, Troll Unguent. (SoC confirmed) Someone change the Rotscale (Boss) to Bone Dragon (Boss). He dropped a Decayed Orr Emblem, so add it to the item drops. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 11:12, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * He is a necro in Majesty's Rest, I cannot confirm for the Sanctum Cay mission. --Draygo Korvan 10:53, 16 June 2006 (CDT)

Info needed
I need someone to find out: --Draygo Korvan 10:55, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * 1) Rotscale's Total Health
 * 2) Confirm Skills


 * We spiked him with GB for 500 health and that took off about 5% of his health or less even. he has 10,000 health I think.
 * The skills you put are what I saw him use. I have not seen any others in 4 times I have killed him. No way to SoC him. --Karlos 05:15, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Oh, and not only does he cast twice as fast, but hexes last on him like a third of their duration. Mesmers and necros really have a hard time there (except for GB). --Karlos 05:18, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Do conditions have the normal duration on him? Suppose not. Should we mention the estimated health in the article? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 05:22, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd like us to test it more. The necro who was saccing was not in the run for the sake of research, so he was not giving me exact numbers. :) He had a good build.. Demonic Flesh to increase his HP, then sacs himself with BR on my ele and the monk and then GB to fill his health back (also risky if Rotscale hits him at the wrong time). Of course, in the heat of battle and with us doing a 5 man run, it was hard to get frequent and accurate readings. The first hit however was for ~500 health and on his health bar it seemed like 5%. Taking Screen caps would be better I think (we can then measure exactly how much the lost part is relative to the whole bar, before his regen kicks in). --Karlos 05:37, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * With regards to Conditions, I dont know. The tank was causing Deep Wound, which didn't seem to last long and didn't seem to cause him to drop 20% of his health either. --Karlos 05:39, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * The adventurous may wish to try Arcane Thievery and Arcane Larceny.&mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 05:24, 17 June 2006 (CDT) )


 * Lol, what a great idea. Are there any skills which steal anything else than spells? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 05:28, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Karlos, Deep Wound reduces max health by 20% or 100 points, whichever is lower. If it's correct that Rotscale has 10,000 health, reducing him down to 9,900 doesn't really do all that much, especially considering Rotscale has half duration of conditions.


 * I did not know about this 100 hit point limit. That fits with the observation I made on Rotscale. --Karlos 15:11, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

Ways to kill him..
I think all the normal ways would do it...SS, degen, spiking...but what about using Symbiosis in conjunction with like 15~ enchants...then using Grenth's Balance when persons health gets low? Might be fun to try. - Jack  10:35, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * He can be killed in any number of ways. It's just that with GB we killed him in about half the time. My fire nuking only does half damage to him. --Karlos 15:14, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I designed a build to shut down his casting output, found here. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet (my Mesmer isn't very far along yet), feedback would be appreciated. -Shattered Self 09:32, 29 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Use Wastrel's Worry for some devistating DPS. --Draygo Korvan (Yap) 09:20, 29 June 2006 (CDT)


 * It's good to take protective spirit then he can't kill you so fast and when you have 100 health ot lower use grenth's balance for full health.
 * wow, Bitter Chill does amazing damage against him. Detraya fullvear
 * I had a conversation this evening with an informed ranger named Halius Novadore, who was part of an 8-man team which left from TOA and completed 4 successful runs against Rotscale. Here is what I have learned thus far. If you leave from The Wilds, you will be limited to 6 members, as opposed to leaving from TOA, where your team allows 8. The team build for their party was 2 R/MO, an Ele/Mo, an Ele/N, 2 Mo/Me, an Ne/Rit, and a W/Me. He stated that the Tank was set for aggro and running. He stated that both rangers loaded up with interrupts including ( between the two of them ) Elite Broadhead Arrow, Punishing Shot, Sundering Attack, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Whirling Defense, Healing Breeze, Read Wind, Apply Poison, and Rebirth. He stated that the bone dragons can be pulled away from the group, and that the focus was for the Tank to hold aggro, rangers interrupt to deny opportunities for the dragons to use their skills, and the nukers to .... well... nuke. He did confirm that on the last two runs, an additional Recurve Bow dropped from one of the regular Bone Dragons. I am still researching the skillsets for the other party members, but it is a safe bet that GB was used. He stated the final battle took upwards of 40 minutes. 12:12 am 19 August 2006 (EST) Greabow

5 man groups are possible to farm Rotty but it's rare. My best success groups have brought 1~2 monks, a Rit, 1~2 rangers, 2 eles, and any others. Monks heal and or smite the dragon cohorts. Ritualist goes Rit Lord with Union, Shelter, Displacement and any other skills (Earthbind works well with the eles Meteor Shower). Rangers bring Choking Gas, Practiced Stance, Tiger's Fury, Concussion Shot, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, and/or Broad Head Arrow or other degen conditions (poison/bleed). Eles bring Meteor Shower (for knockdowns) or any other nuke they prefer. I usually am the Choking Gas ranger and I'll bring 1~2 running skills if we don't have anyone running us. Pretty easy with a Ritualist there. Toughest part is effectively killing the cohorts as Rotscale just takes a long time and repetitive actions. Other variations are abound and there is a nice guide w/ others comments on GWOnline but I can't link to it since it just keeps saying you need to log in from the link.--Vallen Frostweaver 13:22, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
 * My 5 man was a with a Grenth Tank, Barrier Bonder, Shutdown Mes, SS necro, and N/Mo Grenth Nuker necro. So it is very possible with lots of enchantments.  Just spread out and he can't get more than 1 or 2 at a time with FoC or desecrate.  The SS was mainly used for clearing the trash around Rot, as well as random blood nukes and BR.  The Barrier Bonder also needs Boon, and spam RoF.  the Grenth nuke with demonic flesh and vital blessing can end up healing for a lot with infuse health, and nuke for upwards of 600-700 depending on how big of a risk your necro is willing to take.  Bringing Symbiosis probably would probably help too.  As for the suggestion it the article of using Frustration, make sure you bring Mantra of Persistance, because, like all bosses, hexes don't last very long on Rot. --waywrong 13:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

In reference to the note on the main page regarding Spinal Shivers, a good tactic when using this spinal shivers approach is to have a paragon secondary somewhere within the party for Song of Power. This allows the necro to cast spinal shivers on him and rely on song of power to maintain energy. At this point the necro gets to stand around and look useless, so in the latest runs we've had the ranger go as R/N and just plunk away, taking care of shutting down Rotscale indefinitely while the rest of the party cleared the area. Energy was never a problem, and rotscale never got anything off. Due to his hex reduction, the ranger was almost entirely a necro (high curses), brought solely for winter+spinal shivers. Cyrogenic 16:08, 10 December 2006 (CST)


 * If using a Ranger try Broad Head Arrow (adding Apply Poison helps too) with a high Marksmanship and a silencing string and you can keep Rotscale interrupted much better as BHA +string +high Marks recharges in the time it takes to wear off and doesn't require a second person to manage energy (or profession for that matter). Apply Poison is just nice to add on as a prep for countering his auto-regen ability.  Once dazed, use a fast firing weapon to continue interruption.  Flurry works to increase interrupts as needed if not being helped by any teammates but I recommend just having others help by wanding or attacking him with you.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  13:20, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * That's so much smarter... AH!  Broad Head arrow is one of my PVE favorites too, AR!  Sometimes, I lack common sense.  Thanks Vallen, that frees up a lot in the party.   Cyrogenic 14:49, 11 December 2006 (CST)
 * Anytime. :D Rotty and I go way back.  I usually run the above plus 2 running skills to get there fast and Lively Was Naomei to res through Frozen Soil too but then that's me.  Good luck and happy hunting.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  14:53, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * From my experience, you don't even need a Rit resurrector. Get Mo/Es with Rebirth and Glyph of Sacrifice. The Bone Dragons will not re-apply FS until it is over (and considering they have 0 Wilderness Survial, it lasts only 30 secs anyways), leaving you with a good 5 second window to rez, which only costs 1 + 3/4 + 1/4 + 2 = 4 seconds to do. (latter 2 seconds are for the teleportation delay of Rebirth.) Now, I've come up with a theoretical build for farming Rotscale... I don't want to post a build, and I haven't tested this yet, but I would like some feedback... Is it okay for me to post my ideas here? Or is it not allowed on talk pages? --Chuck 19:53, 1 January 2007 (CST)


 * I used this build tonight and it worked fantastic. Make sure you have a necro in the group using Spinal Shivers and make sure he keeps it on Rotscale as much as possible.  Also use an elemental bowstring so the damage will be converted to cold damage by Winter and thus interrupting the beast whilst hitting him.  I jacked Expertise up (possibly a bit too high) to make up for Concussion Shot and the frequent use of the interrupts.  I personally think Magebane Shot works better because of the instant recharge upon disrupting a spell, which Rotscale uses quite frequently and also cuts down on energy consumption.

--Old Man Of Ascalon   (T/C) 10:00, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * That may work if you don't have access to factions but you might as well use Choking gas + Practiced stance with an IAS. There's no need for a shivers necro if you do it right.  Look above at my suggestion for Broad Head Arrow.  It takes care of interrupting him with everything but his deafening roar (which can be interrupted with any other interrupt) and that's just one skill.  I think you've overdone your role in interrupting with the above and you can do more with the BHA version as you have much more space for other skills too.  My usual skill bar consists of this:
 * BHA for interrupting Rotscale, Apply Poison and Screaming shot for degen as energy allows, Distracting for Deafening Roar, Dodge and Zojun's to run the group to Rotscale, and Naomei to rez anyone that may have been killed while clearing out the enemies around Rotscale through the Frozen Soil effect. Works like a charm for me.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:05, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * BHA for interrupting Rotscale, Apply Poison and Screaming shot for degen as energy allows, Distracting for Deafening Roar, Dodge and Zojun's to run the group to Rotscale, and Naomei to rez anyone that may have been killed while clearing out the enemies around Rotscale through the Frozen Soil effect. Works like a charm for me.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:05, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Rotscale < Spoil Victor
Erm 5 man and 4 man runs for rotscale!? I have killed him alone with a monk hero, sure it took 2 - 3 deaths on his allies but I got him although it took about 10 - 15 min to take him down. Use 2 armor sets one 55 hp and one ordenary. Use degen and subversion VS Clerics. When facing Rotscale make sure you have 55 HP armor, Succor, Protective spirit and Awaken the Blood on you all the time, same goes for his dragons start by killing his dragons Cast SV run back in to a safe spot where their attacks cant hit you. and then watch the fireworks it takes 1 - 2 SV to kill a dragon and yes even after the skill was nerfed. Necro Skills:

Monk Hero Skills:

place the monk at the bridge so he is within healing range once Rotscale get low HP (around 2%) order the monk to run away as far as you can. - Viktor 15:27, 23 February 2007 (CDT)

That's the biggest load of bullshit ive ever seen Desecrate enchantments = instant death for a 55 unless you are using spellbreaker.... get out of here with your garbage-ass lie build -Leach
 * I've done 2 (of 2) successful runs with this build sofar. It works desecrate enchantment deals damage wich is reduced with Protective spirit so does Feast of corruption unless you are hexed, if hexed it will steal life but since you have hex remover that is no problem. Please look at a build carefully before calling it garbage. - Viktor

ANY SPELL SKILL ETC. THAT DOES ADDITIONAL DAMAGE (conditional etc.) WORKS THROUGH PROT SPIRIT. stop lying. Desecrate enchants = damage + additional damage = gg. -Leach
 * Why would I want to lie?, have you tried it? the only thing that ignores Protective Spirit is when you "lose life" or if its stolen from you, protective spirit protects agains all "damage" from any one source that is above 10% of your maximum life and that applies for when a skill triggers conditional "damage" aswell - Viktor


 * Leach, please try to play a 55 monk or a necro(cheaper) before resorting to all capitals. You can survive any single thing --with bonus or not-- that does damage with a 55'er, desecrate ench included. You can even survive Shatter ench, if use cover enchants and you are careful. Many attack skills and spells have bonus damage -- if what you claim was true, the 55 would never even see the light of day. --Ishmaeel 14:58, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

The best part is that i have a 55 necro and desecrate from rotscale kills him... how do you explain any damage that does a + amt of damage kills it... dont tell me to please try anything. I'm saying i HAVE tried this and it did not work because of desecrate enchantments... is this not the discussion page? Anything that hits for a + amount of damage ignores prot spirit and if you NEED a screenshot or something I'll gladly take one. why dont YOU test this dude, because i have.


 * http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw013gf8.jpg : this is me, getting hit by DE with 5 enchantments on. If I didn't have PS on me, that one would hit for 151 damage. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 05:16, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Are you sure that its Desecrate Encantments that kills you and not the Feast of Corruption? I know that feast can kill you while enchanted by prot spirit but not desecrate enchantment (well if you are bellow 10% hp you can), Im pretty sure that you dont remove malise quickly enough before Rotscale casts feast. I did kill rotscale today again and got another bow using this very method. Btw make sure hi is located on the left side of the hill so you can avoid his normal attacks. - Viktor 23:09, 21 Marsh 2007 (GMT + 1)

Idk I'm checking it out hardxcore. -Leach

Wow that was fast.... check this out.... go try and 55 a stone scale kirin and tell me what happens, Ishmaeel. Soul barbs works through the prot spirit.


 * Ok, I just 55'd and killed a pack of Kirins although I can't see what that has to do with Rotscale. BTW, that's Barbs minus the Soul. And the reason you're falling to it is because Barbs deals additional damage not bonus damage. When a Kirin hits you, it's like it hits you twice. As a 55'er you only can take 11 hits simultaneously. When 5 kirins hit you at the same time, they hit for 50 damage total. If you cannot regen that fast enough, the next salvo surely will kill you.
 * BTW, additional damage from barbs is reduced to 5 too. It does not work through PS.
 * Sorry I had assumed you did not try out 55. And now you are assuming that I did not too. I played a 55 necro in many different places, including against Rotscale and in Fow. What Viktor is telling you is true. Just keep trying and you'll get the hang of it. If you have any questions/problems, you can ask me in my talk page.--[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 02:51, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Found Using a "Dwarven Stance" Hammer Warrior works well against him, has good synergy with a Broad Arrowhead Ranger too.

Using an ursan is very effective, at r10 one ursan and a normal group can kill him in a small amount of time with almost no deaths.-siris

whoa, not undead?
If he looks like a bone dragon, but isn't undead, is he still a bone dragon? Time to pull out Deathbane and Dragonslayer! - 17:12, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Someone reported that holy damage doesn't do double damage to him, I think that is where the "not undead" came from. I don't think that it has been tested with either of those mods though.  --Rainith 17:35, 17 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hawks and I came back with a smiter monk, and he brought SoJ, Balthazar's Aura and the whole nine yards. No double damage. It DID wipe out the Rotting Dragons much faster, but good old Rotscale did not take double damage. So, we know he is NOT undead. I do not know if he is considered Skeletal or if he is a dragon. Someone needs to test those. --Karlos 17:47, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
 * All I know is that he is fleshy which is good enough for me.--Vallen Frostweaver 13:03, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
 * doesn't he take half damage from all sources? half damage x double damage (from holy) = what it says it would be...unless I'm missing something 24.77.129.8 12:04, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Could be but ANet employees have stated that bosses behave differently than any normal species description. He may still be undead but he may also have immunity to any undead weaknesses or even may be healed on holy damage etc.  Testing is the way to find out but then as he's a one-of-a-kind and subject to change in behavior it's tough to maintain that anything we discover will forever stay that way. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  12:33, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Natural Resistance
An argument was started in a group I was in today that was farming Rotscale about whether or not he is a boss. One of the points that came across was that conditions last half as long as normal, or Natural Resistance. I was using a full interrupt build with my ranger at the time with Broad Head Arrow and attempted to time the duration of the dazed, it did seem about half of the duration (it was hard for me to tell due to someone else often poisoning him). Can someone else confirm this, and if it is agreed that he has Natural Resistance we should update the article to reflect such information as it currently says nothing of the sort. thanks. --Fatigue 16:17, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

He is definitely not a boss. I tried a Signet of Capture after he was dead. Assumedly, ANET tooled around with his stats to give him Natural Resistance as well as a ridiculous amount of HP and Armor so the only consequences of this are 1) he doesn't regenerate health during battle and 2) you cannot use a Signet of Capture to get Feast of Corruption from him. -- Anonymous 04:24, 11 July 2006

Whats his HP Regen? I dont fight him often but when i had to vanquish the area i remember taking burning + poison + bleeding and his hp was like at -1pip. (or due to his massive hp it maybe have been -2 or -3 but couldnt tell.)

Always drops bow?
Does he always drop it like kanaxai or just sometimes like sorrows bosses? &mdash; Skuld  12:12, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

i've only gone on two farming runs, but it dropped both times and im pretty sure it drops everytime--Fatigue 12:28, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
 * One bow minimum has always dropped and I've gone on over 20 runs. Sometimes the other bone dragons will drop a Rotwing Recurve Bow as well.  I've actually had 2 bows drop for me in one run once.--Vallen Frostweaver 13:06, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

They must have changed this, because my guild has gone out there 4 times today and killed him and it hasn't dropped once. Party of 8 from ToA and two heroes in the group. I'd say after that many times, at least 1 should have dropped. Can anyone help confirm this?--Old Man Of Ascalon   (T/C) 01:50, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * Heroes can get drops too. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:52, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * Apparently so, 5th and 6th times we went out he dropped a total of 3 bows. Kinda weird how he didn't drop 4 times in a row though.  Had me spooked.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 09:43, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Tip
Testing has proven that Rotscale has 16,740 hp. Ubermancer 05:05, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I knew he had a ton of health but I didn't know he had that much. I trust your comment Ubermancer but I'm just curious what method you used to test this?  Thanks.--Vallen Frostweaver 13:04, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

Nope... are you calculating the life-steal from feast of corruption and his natural regen.... its significantly much less

Warrior Bias
In the article it said:
 * "Generally a Rotscale farming group should have one, and only one, warrior to do the run to Majesty's Rest. In the final fight, warriors are not very useful."

Problems I find with this statement:
 * I have farmed Rotscale often and found a Ranger or even other classes can run you to Rotrscale equally or better than a Warrior thus this statement is biased for Warriors.
 * I have farmed Rotscale often and found a Warrior to be quite helpful with interrupts, grenth's balance, added degen, taking out the smoke phantoms while the party focuses on the dragons, and other abilities thus making this statement biased against Warriors.

Notes: I do not usually play a Warrior profession at all but I see no reason to specifically list reasons to bring or not bring a Warrior in the above statement. I believe it is irrelevant info and should be removed or changed. Perhaps this for a replacement: --Vallen Frostweaver 13:00, 20 September 2006 (CDT) Changezrored-Onlyashadow 13:07, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
 * To speed your travel to Rotscale it is common to have one properly equipped party member run the group to Majesty's Rest.
 * Melee classes are generally not as common in a Rotscale farming group due to the need for ranged attacks on Rotscale's cohorts, though they can be of use against Rotscale itself or the Smoke Phantoms that appear at the end of the bridge.


 * I definitely say that a Grenth's Balance Warrior is probably one of THE BEST build/chars to bring. After one of the PUG groups me and a friend were in the other night, that managed to get itself wiped by Rotscale after we had killed all his friends, our GB warrior was all that was left.  He literally took Rotscale from around 80% health to a sliver of life by himself.  He was only defeated by the fact that he had Rotscale's health so low that GB was no longer having an effect.  Furthermore, once the GB warrior died and the party was res'd, we only had to fight Rotscale with around 5-10% health.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 09:49, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Discuss - Revert to revert of notes
In relation to the revert "repaired vandalism of previous editor" by Shallamar Rainer, this was correctly reverted the first time because it is not required to know that it can be done with just henchies, the Rotscale solo farming build also is not in the correct format or section and i marked it as delete but i would prefer to see it added to the build stub pages because i can see this working as a build and can be modified by the public further. Xeon 02:07, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Half the info on the page is not required to know. A small note that helps interconnect the site assists users in finding info, and helps to clean up a lot of the long, and often irrelevant notes added on many of the pages. Delete your own works and leave administration to administration.Shallamar Rainer 02:21, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I have left it up to the admins, after all i can only candidate it for deletion, it will be their choice in the end. The rotscale solo farming page should be posted as a build read and be formated to these standards. I agree that this page has quite alot of general junk notes and they need to be simplified or removed. Xeon 02:30, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

What you've done, is delete a reference to a separate page, and tried to have that separate page deleted. "Rotwing farming" profits might be at risk from players accessing such information (oh no!!!) File for relocation or deletion if you want, but delete your own work only.Shallamar Rainer 03:00, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Welcome to the wiki, anyone can change anything (well almost). Until very recenly no bosses had farming builds referenced.  That is starting to chanage with builds voted "favored" being added to some boss pages. I think if the build you posted is voted favored it should be referenced in this same way.  --JP 03:27, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Why stubbed?
Why is this article stubbed? It seems alright to me. — Jyro X 04:42, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
 * He's not a boss, but besides SoC confirmation, a map (or a sufficient text description) is needed to unstub boss articles. --Fyren 05:10, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That confused me. You just said he's not a boss but requires things to unstub boss articles?  If you need confirmations, I have used SoC and he isn't skill cap-able, and as for directions or a map, I'll make one later today and plop it in there as I run there often for the groups I'm in.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:13, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Added the map and how to get there from ToA. Forgot to ad a comment though so I added this one here.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:57, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

What's with the note?
Ok, why is the note being replaced over and over as if it actually has any value? --Karlos 18:43, 17 November 2006 (CST)

He has more friends now...
Rotscale is now grouped up with some undead archers, monks, necros, and the four Bone Dragons are still there. I have also tried to pull him, or any of the other monsters, from the island, but they will not come off the platform. So it seems spiking is still effective but pulling the monsters isn't as effective any more as it once was. Oh, and the four bone dragons huddle around Rotscale and they stand in the left corner of the island. So its impossible, or atleast I think it is, for most any one to farm this guy with henchies.
 * Spawns change at random. He always had undead with him, and the bone dragons always clumped.  &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 14:51, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * I've killed him, laboriously, with henchman from Sanctum Cay (actually, I'm the one who added the note). you just aim to kill one enemy each time before you die, then return and continue the fight. I've only done it twice, as I don't recommend it if you can get a group (It's boring and slow). However, it is possible. Wixery 17:34, 14 January 2007 (CST)

Bleeding & poison
Just wondering can you make him bleed and suffer poison? Does it last full duration?
 * As taken from the Notes: section on the previous page:
 * Even though Rotscale looks exactly like a Bone Dragon, which are undead creatures, Rotscale itself is not an undead creature. Therefore holy damage does not inflict double damage and it is considered a fleshy creature (i.e. can suffer bleeding and other conditions). However, the bone dragons and other undead surrounding Rotscale are still susceptible to Holy damage.
 * And the duration for hexes and conditions are lessened on him as if he were a boss.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:59, 23 January 2007 (CST)

130hp D/Mo
If you managed to get to RotSkale and the Rotting Dragons with a 130hp. Isnt it theoreticly possible that you could solo it?
 * With your lack of description of what you are inferring for the process or skills used, I would say a resounding no.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  13:03, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Still no. The roar will daze you and incendiary arrows will constantly interrupt you and set you on fire (degen kills the low hp builds like this usually) plus Desecrate Enchantments - even if limited to 10% from protective spirit - will hit you for the initial damage and another hit for each enchantment and as you have a potential 5 enchants that would mean up to half your health (10% x 5) from one skill.  Nice thoughts but sorry, it won't work solo like this.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:29, 26 January 2007 (CST)
 * In fact, you can AIbuse him by hiding under the hill so you are never hit by his companions' arrows, and he does not roar if you keep your distance. However, you have to do something about his lifesteal skill, and something about your energy because that would be one very long fight if you could stay alive. I tried with the build and all I could accomplish was to bring him down to about 97% HP. (BTW, this was before SV nerf -- even then he was shrugging it off in about three seconds)--Ishmaeel 06:50, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * SV works you only need a hex removal to remove the lifesteal effect on Feast of Corruption. - Viktor 02:27, 6 Marsh 2007 (GMT+1)
 * Sure it works, but this section discusses low-HP solo builds. One simply cannot keep up the energy to withstand him for an extended period of time. Or can she?--Ishmaeel 01:29, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * Dont know if you read the whole article but I did post this and its works great with succor, however doing it all solo will be abit harder. You sill have 100% drop chance to get the bow with a hero since you can order heroes away - Viktor 10:10, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks for the clarification. You're right, I had missed your hero-duo section before. Thing is, I did not have nightfall at that time and had tried the run "really solo", meaning no people, no henchies and no heroes with me. Succor really is a nice solution to E-management problem. I don't think the energy problem can be solved with a lone N/Mo, without throwing in an "other ally". --Ishmaeel 05:42, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Build:E/A Solo Green Farmer
Ahem, you can get to him quite easy using the running skills involved. Then, you do not farm him but his rotting dragon friends to get the bow. Simple but effective... then you die and have to run all the way there again :P Link To The Future 11:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * That may be true (though I didn't check your link yet) but this is a talk page for Rotscale and not for the Rotwing Recurve that's dropped by them.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  23:11, 27 January 2007 (CST)

Hench Trouble
I tried this twice with hero/hench group but tactic of eliminating one by one and dying between works till the Rotscale. When i cleared all ir tried to kill him eith my warrior but with FoC he wiped half party(60%DP)and other half lasted for 10 more seconds. Have anyone ideas how to comply with this?


 * That's when you pay your buddy Balthazar at the res shrine to clear your DP. If your region has favor. Otherwise, try and bring a ranger hero with Broad Head Arrow to interrupt his spell casting completely. --Karlos 20:06, 30 January 2007 (CST)


 * Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through (and money) just to get a Rotwing bow...I like henchmen, but farming with them is still generally no fun. And they're level 15. >< Entropy 22:26, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * Not just about the bow (though it is my fav) it's about the accomplishment. Killing Rotwing was one of my proudest moments.  I've often lead successful groups to him since and I love the team effort.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  23:27, 30 January 2007 (CST)


 * Thanx, that broadhead hero is my target but i have that acolyte only lvl11. And when i want to repay that DP of 60% its only 3k i suppose. It is worth?? Anyway the dazed idea is best of all.
 * Yes, Dazed will eliminate Rotscale pretty good but it's best to use a silencing string too if you have it, as condition durations are reduced on him something awful.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  15:32, 31 January 2007 (CST)
 * Wouldn't doing it with henchmen greatly reduce the chance of the bow dropping? Even though it always drops, 7/8 times it would go to a henchman and thus never even appear. 404notfound 01:18, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Image
It's really messed up, and different from the thumbnail... 23:05, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, it is. Heh.  kinda funny.  Click Rotscale and he gets slashed and all bitey looking.  --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:43, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * That... that blows my mind. -- James Sumners 09:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Hard Mode
I've tried many times in vain to kill rotscale in Hard Mode. My character is a warrior, I'm just learning the GB warrior build but killing rotscale is proving to be extremely difficult in hard mode. I can kill all his friends and be left with just him but I can never get him below 40% health or so. I've seen instances that Grenth's Balance heals me for +840 health and Rotscale's Health doesn't drop one bit. Am I doing something very wrong, that this is happening to me? I've spent way too much gold on equiping my character and all my heros and trying new builds and all for not. I can't express my frustration with this issue.

I would very much appreciate anyone that could point me in a direction that leads to Rotscale's death.

Thanks, Gutter Warrior


 * Hi Gutter Warrior. I recently helped a couple of guildmates to vanquish this area, and we came up with a build that seems almost 100% foolproof and it works with any class at all. I just went out to try it with heroes/hench and had no trouble. Roughly,
 * One N/Me hero with max 12+4 Curses and 12 Inspiration Magic (3+1 Soul Reaping) and Spiteful Spirit and Mantra of Resolve.
 * One N/any hero with 12+4 Blood Magic and Spoil Victor
 * One Mo/Me hero with 12+4 Protection Prayers, 10+3 Divine Favor and 8 Inspiration Magic with Protective Bond, Mantra of Inscriptions and Blessed Signet.
 * Alesia and Claude.
 * In Majesty's Rest, rezone until you get the spawn where Rotty and his entourage are at the farthest point in the island, to the right of the gate. Depending on which direction you come from, this can be easy or hard. I recommend coming from Temple of the Ages because you get the two extra hench and the run to Rotty from the portal is through a bunch of harmless Reed Stalkers. Plus, if you're vanquishing, then you need to do just the Krytan half of the area as the Maguuma half are all popups.
 * At Rotty, inch forward until you have the Skeleton Bowmasters and Necrid Horseman killed. You may also want to kill the Damned Clerics, but it isn't strictly necessary.
 * P-Bond your two necro heroes and position them as in the adjacent picture. (Note that me, the ranger, is standing there dancing. That's all I did for most of the battle.) The important thing about this spawn and this location is that Rotty and his sidekicks can't reach you with arrows, so you only have to worry about Deathly Swarm, Desecrate Enchantments and Feast of Corruption. Each spell does only 20-ish damage because of P-Bond, and damage happens infrequently enough that P-Bond won't make your monk hero squeal. [[Image:Rotscale Hard Mode tutorial 1.jpg|thumb|Positioning guide (click to enlarge)]]
 * Disable all your necro hero's skills and cast them manually. First bring them to the point where I have the flags. Keep in mind that you have to flag them out of aggro before activaing any skills. If you flag them in aggro, they will single-mindedly run to the flag first, twiddle their thumbs for 2-3 seconds, and only then activate anything. When the heroes get there, target one Rotting Dragon and have the curser cast a Spiteful Spirit in his Mantra of Resolve stance. The stance is very important, as a stray Incendiary Arrow can kill the plan (and yourself) very dead.
 * The Rotting Dragons should soon fall. During this battle, the Damned Clerics should have come down the stairs and to arrow range. As I am a Splinter Weapon Barrager, I was able to take them down by myself. If that doesn't work, the two necros should be more than a match for them.
 * When only Rotty remains, make your necros unleash Spiteful Spirit and Spoil Victor on it. In my build I brought Parasitic Bond on the curser because I was extra paranoid of Rotty's damage, but it ended up just soaking up energy uselessly. Claude will go crazy with his Blood Rituals on Alesia and the monk hero (Claude is better than 90% of human bipers I have played with. Sad, innit?)
 * Rotty should drop within 5 minutes. When his health drops below 50%, the necros will keep themselves healed with Signet of Lost Souls. The last 5% will take the longest time because Rotty's health will be equalized with the blood necro's: there you should use any life siphoning/blood spiking skills instead. Unfortunately, in my haste to test out the build, I completely forgot to load the blood necro with Life Siphon, Dark Pact and Blood of the Aggressor. I was also a bit careless with the Inferno Imps in Talmark Wilderness and got here with 30% DP. Yikes! No deaths in Majesty's Rest, though.
 * Best of luck and happy vanquishing! BftP 09:03, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

DUDE, that was the best. Got him on first try, I appreciate the help greatly. Thanks a ton!!!!!! -Gutter Warrior
 * Glad you did it, but Rotscale is a cinch, even in Hard Mode, if you just bring Broad Head Arrow... Arshay Duskbrow 23:26, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I really doubt it is "a cinch". Remember, we are talking heroes/hench only for any player primary. Even at max Marksmanship, BHA lasts only 10 seconds (14 with a silencing bow) on Rotscale. You'll need two BHA rangers with tight coordination (one with Serpent's Quickness isn't enough because there is a 15s or so window when SQ recharges) because you really have to keep Rotscale continuously dazed, and the rest of the team will have to do enough damage to outdo the huge natural regeneration Rotscale has (plus any Feasts of Corruption you miss). At the very least it will take a very long time. Maybe a primary spellcaster can go as a /mesmer with Extend Conditions... but that will require testing. Not that I make any claims that the build suggestion I wrote above is the best---in fact, it can be improved a lot---but I don't think the sustained DPS of a Spoil Victor/Spiteful Spirit combo can be beat. (If you mean a BHA ranger plus the SS/SV necros, then I would say that it is too risky with just Alesia. You'll have to have Lyssa's own luck to survive an encounter with a group of Smoke Phantoms, to say nothing of the groups of Inferno Imps in the previous zone.) BftP 07:06, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I can't help but smile at your overdramatizing. This is how it went when I vanquished Majesty's Rest: The only player help I had was one nuker, the rest was heroes; one was a BHA Ranger, which was also what I was. I took out the clerics, pulled everything else into a clump, my friend nuked everything, Margrid and myself kept Rotscale busy with BHA and he went down on the first try. It's really not as difficult as you are trying hard to make it sound. Arshay Duskbrow 08:44, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Having even 2 humans makes any vanquishing task dramatically easier. The exercise is to do it with any player class and with heroes and henchmen only. That means living with Alesia's idiotic healing build. For bonus credit, do it with just six in your team. Unless you try it, you won't see how difficult it is. This will be my last message on this topic unless you succeed in demonstrating with screenshots that it is indeed "a cinch". BftP 11:35, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oddly, I don't believe Mr. Warrior ever said anything about it having to be done with only heroes and henches. That's a condition you added for your own purposes. My question is, why would you hamstring yourself by attempting to use henches? Trying to vanquish Rotscale with only Alesia healing would indeed be lunacy, and only a fool would say otherwise. But, despite what you seem to think, we are not playing a game of "It HAS to be done with ONLY heroes and henches." I'm not participating in that "exercise", and anyone that does is hobbling themselves foolishly. Get someone to help you. There's no shame in it. I did do most of Tyria with only heroes and henches, but there are certain areas where that's nothing but a self-inflicted punishment. Majesty's Rest, Kessex Peak, Mamnoon Lagoon (though I see you are pulling the same stunt on that talk page...), Dreadnought's Drift to name a few. But I will say this: Of the ones I did have help with, Rotscale was definitely one of the easier ones. Arshay Duskbrow 18:12, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I have already achieved Legendary Vanquisher a while back with the occasional help of guildmates. With multiple competent players, nothing in PvE is a challenge. Now I am trying to prove that every area is vanquishable with heroes and the henchmen available in a nearby outpost. This is necessary because most players today cannot find people to vanquish with. The big PvE guilds aren't recruiting, most other guilds are dead, and PUGs are uniformly worse than henchmen. In any case, there is no need for you to be berating my attempt; I don't see how it can affect you except possibly by indirectly making the Vanquisher title less elitist. I will agree with you that Majesty's Rest is easier than it's made out to be, but that's neither here nor there for someone having trouble with the area. BftP 04:39, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm Having Trouble seeing your builds in the picture, and you have failed to write the builds in, i also can not stand the incompitence of Pug's, wich is why i rather H/H, so if u could please write down the builds, it would be much appreciated peace-Vander Gloria Vander Belt 18:12, 19 August 2007
 * Ok, I was curious about this, it seemed like it wouldn't work but it actually does (although it took a few wipes until I got everything just right. If I had to do it again I'd probably just take a BHA ranger or something, this was is annoying. Btw, this is my first comment on a discussion page, so if it comes out with the wiki code all stuffed up, don't blame me Marty Silverblade 10:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

-->Don't put down PUGs. You might have no idea what can happen with good leadership AND managerial skills, which many talented people lack and virtually any arbitrary person needs to learn. Although what I said goes to smut when you start factoring in juvenile players. -unregistered user