User talk:Tanaric

Old conversations and dead threads can be found on /Archives, /Archives2, and /Archives3. If you want to dredge something up, bring the whole thread back here.

build copyvio
what does that mean? are builds copywrited now, or is this a policy related to the builds wipe?--Honorable Sarah 19:37, 7 May 2007 (CDT)


 * By United States law, all content produced by anyone anywhere is always copyrighted, but that's not really the problem here. The builds Auron and I have been deleting are those which did not copy over the article history, thus violating the attribution clause of our Creative Commons license. &mdash;Tanaric 04:25, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

reply from anet?
Have you got the reply from anet about the screenshots yet? -- Xeon 20:23, 7 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I got one saying they're looking into it, but they have yet to reach a decision. &mdash;Tanaric 04:27, 8 May 2007 (CDT)


 * still nothing from them? -- Xeon 00:19, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Rabies Build Edits
Thanks for the edits to tidy up those build pages of mine. Never noticed the issue when I was furiously adding those pages on the 30th. How did you stumble upon those pages btw? Just curious... I never am able to find anything on people's userpages. Hopefully they are useful to you and not just an editing task :) — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 20:38, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it was just from Special:Recentchanges. You can search a particular user space via Special:Allpages. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 20:46, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Three of the updates he did were today, and no one had edited those pages for over a week... so not in recent changes. He might have searched just my userspace, but I was just seeing. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 21:01, 7 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm using the old build categories, like Tested Builds. When you copied the articles over, you left the category tags in, and since I need to remove the tags as part of the builds wipe anyway, I might as well add pre tags where appropriate. &mdash;Tanaric 04:28, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmmm, That is odd... I thought I had removed all the categories. Plus your edits haven't shown any of those changes, and have only been on the talk pages.  Ah, did the talk page somehow have it as a category listing by the history I put? — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 09:53, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, yes, they did. Adding pre tags around the history pages prevented the categories from being considered. &mdash;Tanaric 12:43, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Archiving
lol, you complained at fyren at his loooooooooooooooong talk page, yours is getting quite big too IMO. &mdash;Sig mA  10:53, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Not anymore :P Lord of all tyria 12:48, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Auron
Why did you promote Auron? I would like to record a belated objection to his promotion. I am getting complaints about him all the way in my hiatus from the wiki. I would like to ask you to reconsider because he has always shown this kind of temperment and disrespect for others. He was even a member of the group that taunted the user, one of the offenses that cost Skuld his adminship. This one is a poor move from the get go. --Karlos 04:42, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Biro appointed Auron, not me. That said, I requested his appointment, so I'll still address your issues. I had noticed a marked improvement in Auron's behavior since his first RfA, and I'd begun to speak with him privately. I believe he possesses the qualities necessary to be a sysop. That said, I also agree that he's off to a shaky start. I am keeping a close eye on him, as I do all newly-appointed sysops; if he convinces me that he's unsuitable, I'll revoke sysop privileges immediately.


 * Since the Skuld issue, I'm determined to be more proactive in trying to shape a sysop instead of merely deciding they're unsuitable and removing them -- I did Skuld a great disservice, and I'm determined not to repeat myself.


 * &mdash;Tanaric 08:13, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I respectfuly disagree. I don't think you can teach someone to be kinder/more considerate if their nature is to disregard others. Skuld will be a great admin anywhere with time and experience, he is/was too young in my opinion. Auron is genuinely disrespectful of others. The way he addressed Sarah is extremely troubling to me. It shows a great amount of resentment/contempt for the value of Sarah as a contributor. And for him to say to her in her face shows a great amount of contempt for her person as well. Just a very troubling sign. --Karlos 08:24, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * You have a good point. That said, Xasxas, Gares, and I have admonished Auron about that particular situation on his talk page. If it occurs again, I'll have to adopt your stance, but until then, I'd like to retain him. Based on what I've seen so far, I think Auron merely dislikes User:Honorable Sarah, which I can completely understand (though I don't condone his expression of it) based on their diametrically opposed edits. &mdash;Tanaric 08:32, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * The secondary proffesion articles are just plain trouble. It's always someone's opinion vs the other which leads to arguements, and frankly the information is totally useless ;it's basically a state the obvious bunch of articles. Solus  [[Image:DiscipleSymbol2.jpg|19px]] 08:40, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

User:Frvwfr2/Team:Healer/Bonders
This page was deleted by you... It was not a copy of any builds. I had custom made it. Could you restore it please? Thanks. -- frvwfr2  (talk)(contributions) 07:29, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Done. Sorry about that! &mdash;Tanaric 08:14, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the speedy reply... --[[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk)(contributions) 08:22, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

Haha :P
The last line made me laugh :P &mdash;Sig mA  15:21, 23 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I strive for accuracy in all my edits. :) &mdash;Tanaric 15:22, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

Can you move the char/title templates into actual templates?
Hi Tanaric. I've been trying to use the /Character and /TitleList templates and it's been frankly horrific. There are a LOT of sub-pages on your user space that are inter-connected to the design. Each title has a subpage under the /Title tree and then there's good old NavFrame. Right now, it's like this wonderful utility that only works if you install it in:

c:\my documents\Tanaric\some wacky ideas\guild wars wiki\user character display

Not very user friendly. :P --Karlos 16:25, 24 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't mean to speak on Tanaric's behalf, but I believe he was planning to implement them as proper templates once he had them all finished.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:32, 24 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmmm, I was under the impression he was done. Can we move it into the template space anyways, even if not all titles are supported yet. I think it's just cleaner to build it there. --Karlos 17:19, 24 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Done, though I did not move /Character, as I believe it's too user-specific. The title displayers and title list templates are all now in template-space. Check Displaying titles and Category:Title templates for more information.


 * If you want to use character, you must simply copy /Character, /NavFrame, and /Icon into your own user space. Alternatively, you can simply make redirects from User:Karlos/Character to User:Tanaric/Character etc.


 * &mdash;Tanaric 18:29, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Grand Court masters
You up for it? -Auron  00:14, 25 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Already got it. Getting a couple lightbringer ranks first made it ridiculously easy. &mdash;Tanaric 00:14, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Requesting another admin to review
Can you take a look at Tomb and the talk page? A DEL tag was added by Skuld, I removed it, then he re-inserted it. Rather than getting into a revert war, I wanted to ask someone else to review. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:08, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Char picture on user page
Hi, I've been trying for a couple of hours to put a picture of my char on my talk page, without succeeding. Since I'm not english native speaker, there might be a few things I don't understand to make it troublelessly. You can find my first try on my talk page, and a pic on User:Fexghadi/Account, so if you don't mind explaining me how to join both, I'd be grateful. -- Fexghadi 11:50, 31 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I've fixed your user page. Things I did:
 * Created redirect from User:Fexghadi/Character to User:Tanaric/Character
 * Created redirect from User:Fexghadi/NavFrame to User:Tanaric/NavFrame
 * Created redirect from User:Fexghadi/Icon to User:Tanaric/Icon
 * On User:Fexghadi, changed 'class = m' to 'class = me', assuming you're a Mesmer. If that's a monk, change it to 'class = mo'
 * On User:Fexghadi, changed 'name = Character-Celes Chere V1' to 'name = Celes Chere V1'
 * On User:Fexghadi, changed the TitleList invocation to match the template. Notably, you don't need to include entries for title tracks based on other title tracks -- the template figures them out for you automatically.


 * If you have any more questions, please let me know. :)


 * &mdash;Tanaric 19:15, 31 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I changed it from me to mo for him. The character image shows a monk character. :P --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 03:06, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Ok, now it worked... but still, I can't understand how, and I'm not just gonna disturb you everytime I'm making changes to that page, right?
 * Pleasure to see you back Gem ^_^ -- Fexghadi 03:29, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks, Gem; you can see how often I play Guild Wars. :)


 * Fexghadi, the Character, NavFrame, and Icon templates are my personal creations. For you to use them, you need a copy in your own userspace. The redirects I created provide that for you.


 * As far as the TitleList template, you can see what parameters it takes at Template:TitleList.


 * You can ask me any questions you want, I certainly don't mind!


 * &mdash;Tanaric 04:15, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'll give it a try this evening, when I'm back home, thx for thehelp already -- Fexghadi 05:20, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * What do you mean by 'welcome back'? I'm viewing the wiki every day multiple times. Well ok, I have to admit that I mainly contribute to the official wiki nowdays, but still. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:45, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Just look at your user page ^^ -- Fexghadi 17:42, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes? It's a redirect to my own in game quick references. And before that it had a message explaining why I was very pissed off, but I never stopped visiting the site. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 04:00, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Tanaric's story hour!
Lol, thats pretty funny :P &mdash; Skuld 02:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

>.> I think god is telling you something...stop feedin the trolls! :P Readem (talk *contribs ) 02:50, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Ahaha! I love your interpretation, Readem! :) &mdash;Tanaric 03:03, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Haha
sorry about that :D Vanessa 03:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Ouch
Sorry about the house man... Glad ya didn't die. frvwfr2  (talk)(contributions) 18:36, 7 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You don't mean that! &mdash; Skuld 18:38, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Random stuff
Is this lineon your user page still up to date: "Deletion based on formatting – Certain parts of the GuildWiki are currently deleting or squelching content based upon poor formatting, regardless of the information contained within. Editors should instead reformat the article—it's better for the GuildWiki in the long run."

And if you need some in game property, I'll be glad to part with some of mine. Gold, crafting materials, items, what ever you need atm. -- (gem / talk) 06:06, 9 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I've updated that line, as I think the problem has lessened a bit since I originally posted that. However, it's still something I'm not fond of and I still think we should worry about it.


 * As far as in-game items go, I'm perpetually broke and will take anything you have excess of! I'll keep an eye out for you in-game, or, if you prefer, we can arrange a time to meet. Thanks so much!


 * &mdash;Tanaric 07:42, 9 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Just whisper me when you see me in game and I can log in with my storage account to see what I've got. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 15:53, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

That cancer discussion...
I generally agree with you that I am sick of people putting up ribbons to "support a cause" especially those BIG causes that everyone supports anyways and most of the time the ribbon is used to make the person feel better about themselves (like supporting the military, or breast cancer research or being proud to be an American), I find these very elitist and made to flat out make someone feel special about doing the right thing that everyone is supposed to do anyways.

However, I found that small remark you made in your final response about having "no sympathy" for those who do not check for some reason or another to be completely unwarranted and insensitive. I hope it was just an overzealous sweeping statement you made to send a point or something, not an actual thoguht out stand on the issue. It casts grave shadows on the earlier example of your friend who has breast cancer. Do you not feel sympathy for her if she discovered it late? Or if she discovered it early enough you feel she has the common cold?

There IS a level of poverty in THIS country, where mothers work two jobs and work hard and they do NOT want to find out they have breast cancer. They just don't spend the time every few days feeling for lumps in their bathroom. Then one day they find a lump and they are at an advanced stage. You can fault them all you want, but it would tell me you have simply not experienced their side of life. These are the people who need more cancer awareness and more access to treatment, not the yuppies and middle-class folks who spend their entire afternoons searching for lumps and worrying about their weight, but the people who do not have time to follow all the healthy practices and learn them.

Finally, in my opinion, you should always have sympathy for anyone diagnosed with cancer no matter how famous/easily detectable the cancer is... I just found that to be an excessively harsh statement. I lost my mother to breast cancer and I know she tried and tried, and I also know she suffered a lot... and I greatly took offense to that statement. --Karlos 15:49, 12 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm sorry for your loss, Karlos.


 * I did not intend my statement to come off as harsh as it may have, and I apologize for the offense I caused. I think any death from a preventable disease is a shame, and I think that anybody in that situation is in a pitiable state. I did not say that I have "no sympathy" for those who do not get immediately treated, only that I have less, in general. Every person is different and my blanket statement, by itself, was inappropriate without qualifiers.


 * I am greatly opposed to the yuppies who think it won't happen to them, don't bother checking, and then end up losing their breast or their life being depicted as heroes or saints. I should have said this the first time around, as that was where my ire was meant to be directed.


 * &mdash;Tanaric 16:04, 12 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I come from a completely different paradigm where there is no such thing as a "preventable" death. I'm a religious person who firmly believes that God is involved in what goes in life and that we are in this life to be tested to prove our mettle. As such, the beginning and end of the test are two parameters that I believe are absolutely governed by God.
 * I'm a lot more concerned with the huge disparity between care given to financially comfortable people vs poor people. I think that fundamental health care should be equally available to all. I know first hand from the experiences of people I know here in the US that this is not true, at all.
 * Media depiction of people who suffer from adversity here in this country (whether they are lazy yuppies or not) is simply unrealistic. I can't stomach to watch it. It belittles the viewer's intelligence. --Karlos 08:59, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You're more generous than I am. You say "it belittles the viewer's intelligence," whereas I'm inclined to say "it reflects the average viewer's intelligence." :)


 * I am not religious, so I have to ask -- if God is involved in the test that is the dying process, doesn't the lack of medical care available to poorer people suggest that God wants them to have a more challenging trial? (For the record, I'm not trying to belittle your views; I'm genuinely curious.)


 * &mdash;Tanaric 09:27, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I disagree that it reflects the viewer intelligence. In the end, media is about making money. This is the betrayal that took place somewhere in the 80s but was never announced to anyone. I think up to the 70s, the trend in TV news was similar to news papers, i.e. cover the "big" stories that the editors think the public should know about them and cover them as deligiently as possible and with as little bias as possible. It may have started fading by the 70s even, i am judging by archived news reports I see more than actual experience since I did not live in that era, but somwhere between 1970 and 1985 this shift happened.
 * The shift was that news used to be above ratings and sales. It was more of a service to the community, to alert them about the biggest local, national and international happenings. After the shift, news was treated as part of the money making portion of business. Therefore, the choice of which news items to bring up and, more importantly, HOW these news items are reported shifted into a style that generates money instead of a style that lives up to high journalistic standards. Hence you saw a rise in hollywood style coverage of events where they dwell on the personal suffering of individual people instead of fuss about the five Ws of who, what, where, when and most importantly WHY.
 * So, whereas NPR will say that a bombing took place in an Israeli settlement and that this bombing was a result of X and caused Y damage and the Israeli government haz done Z in retalliation, CNN would have Anderson Cooper standing by a pile of rubble interviewing this distraught Israeli mother who describes how her pet cat was in the house when the explosions went on.
 * The problme is that, no one told the viewers that. The majority of viewers up until the late 90s still regarded TV news as an authoritative source on news. No one told them that the mission statement for news coverage in their local TV station was rewritten with more emphasis on what sells than what's important.
 * People have started to figure this out, and more and more people are starting to trust TV news less and less. But I don't fault people's intelligence (I do fault their laziness in standing up against this and voicing their concerns).
 * As for your other question... The test is comprehensive. It's not just about how we do individually in our personal lives and whether we pray or not. It also extends into every aspect of how we interact with the outside world, whether we are kind, gentle, honest, abusive, .... and so forth. And a big part of that test is whether we will collectively choose as a society to use our taxes to fund a new football arena, but refuse to spend more money on the health care of our poor. A big part of the test is that our lives are very intertwined and the reprecussions of our choices do not just affect ourselves. --Karlos 20:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm so sorry for interfering with a bit 'offtopic', so I restarted the indention for this message.
 * While reading your latest posts, Karlos, I got yet again confirmations on many of the differences which I knew to exist between the american and european (especially the finnish) systems. In Finland we are much closer to what you seem to hold as an ideal world. The media is as neutral as possible (unlike for example Fox TV in America). The difference between those with a lot of money and those with a little of it (I wouldn't really use the words rich and poor in Finland at all, everyone is closer to the avarage than one would imagine) isn't a big one in any aspect I could think of (education, awareness, possibilities, ...). Tax income is used to help everyone; we have free education, partially free and partially low cost health care, etc. I'm really happy to live here and I'm sad that these things are a lot worse in many other countries. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:32, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yet, more people want to migrate to the US than Finland. :P You're looking at one negative angle that we're discussing. There are still positives and negatives to look at. The educational system here is almost unique in the whole entire world. Produces Americans to say the least. I admire a lot of things about it. So, not all is bad in the land of Mr.Bush. --Karlos 06:56, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Every place has it's positive and negative sides. I didn't say that living in the US is necessarily worse than it is here, I just said that some of the things that you don't like in the US are done better here. (Btw, the migration thing might have something to do with the size difference ;) ) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:02, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * And, for the record, I've wanted to emigrate to Finland for the last 6-8 years or so. :) &mdash;Tanaric 09:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Copyright Question
Hey, so, I know that copyrights have been an issue in the Past for PvX, so I was wondering whether you could help me out a little. I've been attempting to write an RfA for PvXwiki, and, when it came to writing out the steps for nomination, I could not for the life of me figure out a way to phrase it differently then it is done on the RfA here. Since I don't really understand copyright law, I was wondering whether you could explain what (if anything) I need to do in order to comply with copyright law. The link can be found here. Please leave your response on the RfA policy's talk page to ensure that I see it. Thanks. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  00:32, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ideas can't be copyrighted, only expressions of those ideas. If there's no other reasonble way to state whatever it is, then it can't be copyrighted.  In any case, if you ever want to use text from GuildWiki, you can always just acknowledge you took it from here, since PvX uses the same license. (By the way, the footer on PvX says CC NC-SA 2.5, which is different from CC BY-NC-SA 2.5.) --Fyren 03:11, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

Small Q...
Why does it show User:Tmarosi's monk's total maxed titles but not my ele's? --Karlos 08:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * He had the template explicitly not showing the count for rank 3. He probably didn't know you could get more than 15.  --Fyren 09:00, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I knew, but figured it wasn't worth showing. I wrote all the title templates to omit the progress toward that title once the max title had been reached. This was one of the reasons I initially left all the templates in userspace -- everybody's going to want something a little different from them.


 * Looks like one of you guys changed it. Personally, I liked it better the other way, but since I don't have any characters with any maxed titles, I'm not going to argue. :)


 * &mdash;Tanaric 09:22, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * For the other titles, it's reasonable to think there won't be any more ranks coming. But for the maxed titles title, you can in theory get more than 30 PvE titles alone and additional ranks have been observed on the alpha server.  --Fyren 10:00, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I had intended to change it once the additional titles were added, but like I said earlier, I don't care too much. &mdash;Tanaric 10:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks. Technically, Tanaric, it's relevant to show whether the character has 15 or 23 titles. 15 is much easier than 23. Having 23-25 means you've done the dirty ones (cartographer and vanquisher) and the trivial ones (sweet tooth and drunkard). --Karlos 11:13, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

Guildwiki
Hey, when I loaded the site today (wich did it realllly-really-really slow) I had 2 popups, wich I never had before. Is this permanent, or is it my computer/internet that is acting strange? &mdash;Shady Guy  08:04, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Slowness may be our fault. If you're using IE, I'd sooner think you've got malware problems.  My popup blocker would have informed me if I ever got one here.  --Fyren 08:27, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The wiki is slow indeed, but no pop-up block notices for me either. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:04, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * HM, I don't have it know, should be something else. I am using IE, is that the problem my pc is slow? &mdash;Shady Guy [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 11:23, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you have any malware scanners on your system? If not, some moderately good free ones are at  and  (note, the second one will try to convince you to get the paid-for version, just follow the links for the free version).  Once you install them, run the programs.  If you've never used something like this before, they'll likely find a ton of entries (mainly cookies, but likely other things as well).  They then give the option to delete what they find.  Note: some "free" programs (not the two above) actually install malware of some type along with themselves, and if these programs find that malware and you choose to remove it, that can result in the "free" product no longer working.  I would say if it requires malware to use, then you don't need it - but it's your own call.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:49, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Some good Internet common sense will get you a lot further, though it perhaps requires more work. I've been fine, even on Windows systems, without a virus or malware scanner for years.


 * Don't visit sites with Internet Explorer. Ever.
 * Don't download things unless you're sure you know what you're getting. For example, keygens or porn archives often contain malicious code.
 * Don't read email with Outlook Express. Ever.
 * Don't open email attachments from people you don't recognize.


 * Follow some simple guidelines and your computer will run as well as Windows will let it.


 * &mdash;Tanaric 12:59, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The problem is, that my sister owns teh computer, so she stumbles around all sorts of pages (wich I don't want to know) and so I don't know if she opens weird things. Btw, Guildwiki is acting very slow the last weeks(s). &mdash;Shady <font color=#2a7510>Guy [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 16:06, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea, I noticed the slowness too. Why don't you give Firefox a try? Or Opera? -- Ab.Er.Rant [[Image:User Aberrant80 Sig.png]] (msg Aberrant80) 02:49, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Opera, firefox 2 is baaaed slow. &mdash; Skuld 04:27, 19 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The current slowness is, unrelated to the browser. Our cache got reset with the upgrade to 1.10 and it is taking time to rebuild. &mdash;Tanaric 21:46, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Deletion help
Hey, I've been updating my archive, replacing User:Yaki/<Buildname> with User:Yaki/Archive:Builds/<Buildname> and now I need help with the deletion of the old ones, since I'm to lazy to put deletion tags on every single one of them (after a few minutes of work I came to think of moving them instead, but whatever...). Could you delete all pages that link from this page along with the page itself? Would be great. Yaki 14:12, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Done. Are those builds on your userpage written entirely by you? &mdash;Tanaric 14:33, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No, Auron told me about that; I'm working on the "history-transfering" from PvXWiki, done with nearly half of them. Thank you very much for the help. Yaki 15:02, 14 June 2007 (CDT)