User talk:Quizzical/Ytterbium

I still wouldn't say that fire magic sucks. :P Enemies don't need to be blinded, slowed down, or KD'd if they're dead... All elements are pretty balanced imo. Anyways, good article (or what do you call it), as always. J Striker 09:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree about the part where Elementalists who focus on fire don't really know how to play their class if they don't know how their other elements work. There's definitely more to the class then just damage output. My friend still refuses to bring Maelstrom in his water build when it would be useful just because it has pathetic damage. IMO, it's still an awesome skill even if it didn't do damage. Each of the elements are powerful and do their specific jobs very well, but it's a shame that every Elementalist I see in PvE is echoing Meteor Shower during one battle, and then complaining about their energy for the next two battles.-- franc likes tacos 10:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

When you talk about what the elements can do, you fail to remind that you only have 8 slots, minus 2 for rez and attunement. Without dual attune and anything 10e you'll need GoLE, too. So, you'll never, ever get that much out of the other elements. I, personally, use Air Magic often. My bar?

GoS isn't completely necessary, it only speeds up, so you can swap that out for, say, Blinding Flash or Enervating Charge. But, that leaves 1 party utility on your bar. 1. And, where groups mob up like crazy, a Fire Ele is much more potent. Besides, Blinding Flash is rather mediocre nowadays, since you have to spam it, and it has a hefty cost, meaning you'll not use your damage spells as often.

And now the Water Magic story, yay. You already note 8 things Water Magic has. Good luck getting all that. Again, I'll post an example build which I like.

With a cute optional slot, usually something like DF, "I Am Unstoppable!" or a random skill like Daft Strike. Anyhow, with this bar you have: A very potent Ward, AoE damage with a bit of slow, minor damage with Energy gain, Miss chance. You could perhaps mix in an Earth Magic ward in there, if you feel like it. By adding damage, it wont get any better. Why? Because it's focussed in maintaining your blue bar and snaring/hindering. Not damage. By adding damage, you get a Lack of Build Focus. That article is quite interesting, by the way.

Earth Magic, fun as always. Lacks any really good damage, unless you take Shockwave. And I only use SW when I'm rolling capway (5 Eles, 1 Warrior, 2 Monks. SStep in and blow stuff up with PBAoE). And SW alone is mediocre, since it has a recharge.

So, a build eh.. A Warder is strong and brave, lots of party support, that's for sure. Also, we'll want to support the party when WaM is down. Damned PvPBlockwebs.

This bar features: Defense versus Melee, versus Elements, it weakens frontliners within the Ward of Weakness by using Shockwave, which also deals some damage. And you have another small damage source, also granting energy, named Glowstone. You gave 7 examples of what Earth Magic can do. I have 3 of the list you summed up; Defense/Wards. Damage. Weakness.

Fire Magic is up next. This can be used defensively. How? Hahahah. I hoped you'd know!

AoE-damage flee is a GREAT defense. And it features what Fire Magic excells at. AoE big domage. Visually, this indeed only deals big raw domage, but by casting SH/SH/TH on the frontliners, you'll make them kite the AoE damage. They run. Ever saw a Warrior running away and still using Magehunter's Smash? I thought so.

Conclusion: This article is the worst from my view. I do, however, agree with the final line. I've played every Element in a bunch of areas, finding Air Magic the most potent in most areas. High armor? Heh, not with CA and 25% AP. Although my classy Dual Attunement Rodgorts nuker is very effective, too. I suppose I wont need to put that in a skillbar, do I? --- -- (s)talkpage  10:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Whoever said that whenever you use some particular element, you're supposed to bring all of the potentially useful skills associated with that element? Bring some that are useful for what you're going to do, and leave others out.  Then you'll have room for your attunement, rez skill, and perhaps other energy management if needed.  My experience has been that if mobs don't strip enchantments, just the one attunement is usually adequate energy management for a water or earth build, but not for air or fire.


 * Does making a few mobs scatter for a few seconds every now and then help? Kind of.  But it helps a lot more if in addition to making a bunch of warriors scatter, they're then blinded for the next 10 seconds or weakened for the next 19.


 * As far as damage in a water build goes, Conjure Frost can work really nicely against mobs that don't remove enchantments. That lets you load up on skills with longer recharge times, and still deal +19 armor-ignoring damage with each attack.  Air and fire tend to have better direct damage skills, while earth doesn't have a conjure enchantment.  Quizzical 19:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My point was, whatever build you carry, you cannot do more than 3 things at once (and even that's rather meh, lack of build focus = bad). Ok, so fire is at max limited to 2 (and one isn't that good). I agree, blinded and/or weakened is stronger, the point was Fire has an alternate, non-visible effect, scatter. Which does help a bit...
 * 19 raw focking domage which is highly kitable isn't going to help, since it only has an effect on wand/staff/spear attacks (and your wand/etc needs to deal water damage). If you want armor ignoring damage, run Obsid Flame/Magnetic Surge, or perhaps just a Necro. IF you need that bit of extra damage, just sub out Conjure for a spammable'r spell. Will usually help more.


 * By the way, I always spam shit on recharge, so I tend to really need that GoLE on my Water and Earth builds, too. Waiting is for nubs and Charge wins cake, which makes the regen between battles only a few points, usually :P


 * Oh, and relying on mobs not stripping enches = bad. NF, EotN and some areas of Factions are basically undo-able then. Near everything has some form of Ench Strip when it matters. If there's no ench strip, it's probably so easy you can run any build your heart desires. Proph lacks ench strip for as far as I remember... Possibly the reason it's so easy nowadays. Prot = good. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It is well-known which mobs will strip enchantments and which will not. Against the latter, you can safely rely on them not removing enchantments.  Against the former, you take other approaches, most notably relying on glyph of lesser energy.  To paraphrase Keynes, when mobs change what counters they have for skills I could potentially bring, I change what skills I bring.  What do you do?


 * Sure, you need a water staff or wand to use conjure frost. But you need such an item to sensibly use a water build at all, just as you need weapons built around fire to use a fire build, etc.  And it's not like they're hard to come by.  You can get a perfectly good water staff for five jade bracelets or five warden horns, both of which are quite common drops.


 * So mobs could kite staff attacks. They usually don't, even in hard mode.  Well, unless you're using the area damage over time skills to make them scatter, in which case, that's your own fault for being a pure damage dealer not dealing so much damage.  Against many mobs, a water staff with conjure frost will deal better damage than spamming flare or stone daggers (with a fire or earth build, respectively)--and without a spammed energy cost.  Against mobs with a little enchantment removal but not very much, it also makes a convenient cover enchantment to keep water attunement active.


 * The point of bringing up conjure frost isn't that it does insanely high damage. It doesn't.  But it does do decent damage (especially against heavily armored mobs, which elementalists usually don't match up well against), while using only one skill bar slot, freeing up the rest of your skill bar (and nearly all of your energy) for using skills for other purposes.  Quizzical 22:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)