Talk:Energy management guide (PvE)

The article says it's for pvp, the title doesn't. Not my right to change it - Atta
 * it's a direct copy of Energy management guide (PvP), and it's not been properly maintained. you're welcome to help. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:23, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

Cleanup
I'm just going through most of the grammar and occasional misspellings. Hopefully these edits are making the article clearer. --Method3 23:33, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Another note, since this is a direct copy of the article for PvP I'll try to get around to that as well.  If no one is maintaining either article, maybe copy & paste? --Method3 08:42, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Removed entries about Boon Signet, Signet of Devotion and Signet of Rejuvenation as they are not energy management skills, but skills that use no energy (as all signets do).Yves 14:30, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I strongly disagree. They are referred to as passive energy management, but are still very valid forms of energy management.

-Auron  14:31, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I play a monk and agree with you that they play an important role in managing one's energy. However, in that case, all signets should be mentioned ; not only the monk's most used signets. The other objection I'd have to puting these paragraphs back is that it should be obvious to everybody that signets are helpful for not using energy ; on the other hand, it is often quite tricky to decide what skill(s) to choose to actively restore energy. I strongly believe that the guide about energy management should mention signets as a way to relieve pressure on energy use as a general suggestion, and then focus on the various ways which may indeed restore it faster than the natural recovery rate.Yves 15:05, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

I see that the entries have been put back. I must state that I disagree : it only adds to the confusion of the page. Somebody will have to arbiter.Yves 15:20, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Take it to a third party if you wish, but let me make my point. The two signets in question are energy management because they replace an energy skill with a no-cost alternative which produces the same effect. Taking out Orison or whatnot for Signet of Rejuvenation is possible because SoR does the same thing, but for free.
 * Now, stuff like Signet of Sorrow/Signet of Suffering/Cautery Signet etc are not energy management, because they don't preserve energy while doing the same job. They are simply utility.
 * The monk signets replace generic spell heals with free signet ones, same effect, less energy. "All signets" don't do that, and therefore should not be listed as energy management. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 06:03, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Not using energy is energy management. Signets don't use any energy. Therefore signets are good energy-management. If something is taking damage, you are forced to use a skill, and the lowest cost spell is 5 energy. Those little 5 energies really add up in the course of a battle. A signet lets you react to that damage. In the same way that all those 5 energies add up, all those 80 point heals really add up :) If you think they aren't energy management, play a bar full of spells, and a bar with spells and a signet, see the difference. Signets manage your energy by meaning you don't have to use any. Not the same as energy-gain, as you may image e-management as, but e-management nonetheless. &mdash; Skuld 06:09, 22 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Good ; I agree : signets are part of energy management. So, are we going to put all the existing signets here ? Why single out two specific monk signets ? There are a lot of very interesting other signets out there! I feel that it doesn't help to single out some signets and say "they are energy management because they don't use energy when used". The only signets that should really belong here are signets that deal directly with energy (such as blessed signet or leech signet). Other signets DONT belong here, except as a general reminder. On that side, why not mention also adrenaline based skills ? after all, they are on the same line : they use no energy...Yves 09:42, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Split
This page is turning in to a bit of a mess. I think it should be split up or merged with profession specific pages. Silver Sunlight 14:31, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Not sure about this : people will often use their secondary profession to manage energy. It may be better to keep it all centralized to offer a way to easily compare. On the other hand, there is little reason why one would compare between different primary attribute...Yves 15:10, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

attributes
the "Energy Management attributes" section either needs to be expanded upon or attributes that aren't obvious removed. I mean, Divine favor, yes its a form of energy management in and of itself as it means you have to use less skills to heal someone up by providing more heal per skill. Also it includes some skills like blessed signet to directly give energy. But I don't really see how strength is energy management unless its going along the same lines. in either case it really should be explained better. &mdash; JediRogue  23:30, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * oh and the myriad of tables down there are almost meaningless in their complexity. A written summery might be more useful to the average joe. &mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 23:37, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

ok, so I got here from Lol_management_guide, but when I go to delete tag it it brings me here, someone might wanna look at that.--Powersurge360 08:59, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's already set for deletion Zulu Inuoe 09:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, cool then, everything he changed is under wraps. --Powersurge360 09:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The Tables
As said earlier, they probably aren't necessary here. They could probably be moved to the relevant skill articles though, if they aren't already there. Any objections/support? --Toraen 01:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very late answer, but yes, the tables take up alot of space,they would probably be more usefull on the actual skill articles.75.92.46.118 02:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'll get to work on removing the tables. Most of the skills seem to already have tables on their pages (BiP doesn't, but this table is outdated). I'll also be making some additions, and maybe change the formatting of the skill lists slightly. Toraen (Talk  / Contrib)  23:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem with a bunch of these tables, though, is that they don't consider Casting Time, which you should add to the recharge. ــѕт.  мıкε  01:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (EC) The tables are moved to skill articles now, with a few exceptions like Blood Ritual (see here). I think a lot of the tables are unnecessary in their current forms though (they're rather large for the notes section). Toraen (Talk  / Contrib)  01:45, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I know some of the tables did take casting time into account (ex: Inspired Hex). I didn't review all of the tables myself though. Toraen (Talk  / Contrib)  01:47, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I know it's a bit late to chime in, especially since the work is being done, but I think it clogs up the article pages. It should be a sub-page of each article at most. However, here you can compare various energy management. --JonTheMon 02:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Purpose of this page?
What purpose does this page serve? It's not a quick-help guide, it not quite all-encompassing. Whose the intended audience? It's long for a newbie to get a sense of best practices and it's got a lot of obvious-to-veterans material.

I think it needs an overhaul, but I'm not sure what we want to end up with. Thoughts? &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:24, September 15, 2010 (UTC)