User talk:Entropy/Archive 10

THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE AND SHOULD NOT BE EDITED

From September 23 to September 30.

GWW - FFS
Before I say anything I want to make it clear that none of this has any bearing on my RFA; my potential future actions as an Admin; nor my position on GuildWiki. I am still, as always, the loyalist...no matter how bad things look I will be here to the last. I was sorely tempted tonight to drop the whole thing, retire permanently from GWiki, and let the whole issue go. Only the Gods know how much the struggles and aspirations of GWiki have taken out of me personally, and I'm just about up!-to!-here! with it all. But, no - call me addicted, call me a slave, but I won't abandon GuildWiki. It is the least I can do, to be absolutely honest. It's not anthropomorphism when I say that I love GuildWiki. That is really the only way I can describe why I bother even to stay here...For GuildWiki, for Guild Wars, for the community.

Okay, well, I just went over to scan the "Official" wiki. And frankly I am disgusted.

The articles there aren't nearly as complete as at least 50% of the ones we have here on GWiki. I don't care what you say, "Oh they will catch up in 2 years"...I think it's going to be a much longer time than that. Since EotN is out and everyone's busy grinding for HoM or whatever, obviously no one has the time or the motivation to clean up things from past campaigns. We have maps for quests. We have pictures of most monsters. We have at least a complete quest log for all quests, with basic info and Accept/Reward et cetera. There are so many holes in GWW articles that I would not even want to begin and try and fix everything...

GWW hosts pages for guilds. WTF. If you want to make a historical page for [iQ] or [vD] then I think that should be acceptable, or maybe even make it a glossary term since even for PvE players the actions of the highest PvP guilds have consequences for them (nerfs and stuff, intelligent skill discourse).

Power struggles and Wiki-drama. A number of users I respect a lot here on GWiki...a great, number are admins too...have been doing some rather deplorable things on GWW and I feel saddened and ashamed. What is going on over there? Arbitration committees actually being used? Inter-wiki wars between users that actually last longer than a few days? A non-Wiki affiliated "chat room" that is leaking over into the Wiki? So many problems...so many people changed, in my perspective, from who I thought they were. Maybe it's just a different place, a different circumstance, but really. Aberrent80, Tanaric, Skuld, Auron, Readem, LordBiro, Gem, Karlos, Gordon, Xeeron, Xas/Xeon (get all you X folks mixed up, soz), Dirigible...I feel like I hardly know any of you anymore. And I have only really skimmed the surface of the latest happenings on GWW. Who knows what else there is that I missed?

GWiki - we are decaying but I think we are at least sane at the moment...but on GWW things are going absolutely crazy. I intended to go and check to see if my Username had already been taken (yeah yeah, we all need fallout shelter) but unless someone can show me that this really isn't how things usually are on GWW, then I don't think I could ever be enticed to edit there in good faith and with trust in the system. I'm still on GWiki because as much as we're screwed over and flawed here, we don't get crazy shit like that. Even at its worst, the Stabber debacle, Builds wipe, and Wikia move never got to such an ugly and corrosive level.

And the users, oh the lovely users! I haven't seem so many arrogant and opinionated people on GWiki since...well...since we had Builds. On just the few Admin's talkpages that I checked, there were at least three serious requests for arbitration over what would be a very trite matter on GWiki, or ignored...but no. Tempers escalate more easily on GWW I guess. Bad clientele? Maybe we have the old decaying guard, maybe we are obsolete, but I sure as hell prefer that over people who...are as tenacious as Karlos, as rude as Auron and Skuld could be, and are as insolent as Readem is on GWW. Too many intense users like that cause excessive drama. As Gem said somewhere to Karlos, "It's fine to be passionate about the game and the Wiki, but sometimes you have to step back and take a look at what you're doing. You want to protect and make prosper, but your actions right now are doing just the opposite." (paraphrase ftw) There CAN be too many rebels on a Wiki.

And lastly. When we compare policies and bureaucracy and stuff. GWiki wins, hands down. I can actually start to appreciate Gravewit's totally hands-off, delegatory style of management considering some of the absolutely ridiculous things I saw. I can't imagine the headaches the ANet staff and other top-level sysops get over at GWW...A policy which lists every offensible word known to man, as GWW:PROFANE or something? A broken and dysfunctional GWW:NPA which is incompetent compared to ours? "Is it a direct attack? An indirect attack? A sweeping generality? Can a userpage or an edit summary violate NPA? Does the offended party's opinion mean anything?" "OMG I'm taking this to ArbComm!" GWW:SIGN and the "Signature Zealots" crusade...GWW:NOTICE, a good idea in theory but I only see it being used for personal vendettas (no offense to any parties involved), which really circumvents the whole theory behind it which is to raise transparancy.

In all fairness, some of my alienation can be called Culture Shock...GWW is pretty radically different from us. Their layout alone is enough to make me shudder, so damn ugly and "Modern" themed...thank god for our wonderful Template designers, MetaWiki experts, and Monobook artists! Also, GWW is still younger compared to GWiki, so there is a time disparity. And, since it is run by ANet, things must fundamentally be a "bit" different.

But really, when I look at it all, it just makes my sadness over the decline of GWiki unbearable. I know Tanaric said to Gravewit somewhere that "You didn't build something monumental, we prospered in spite of you" or something to that effect. Well, yeah, you're right...Gravewit has problems. But really, beneath all the grime and flak that GWiki has on it right now and always did, this place is still near and dear to me. It's a gem and its value and shine are still visible if you only know from what perspective to look. GWiki has problems. GWW has worse problems, imo.

Honestly all I can think of is (WTF), and hope and pray that somewhere, somehow, someday...we will have one Wiki, one good quality Wiki. Free of third-party interference like Wikia or ANet. Free of censorship, in the bounds of (our) NPA. Full and complete and accurate information for even the smallest game details. A cool, calm, collected userbase that can have fun and construct the Wiki at the same time. Less martyrs waving the bloody shirt, less dictators and armies to cause martyrs in the first place. More accountability and transparancy and responsibility.

It's a pipe dream I know - I want the best of all three Wikis...the pomp and grandeur we still retain as sagacious GWiki, the "insider" knowledge and technology of ANet staff as GWW, and the free thinking independent spirit of PvX Wiki. I just wish we could all work together and get along instead of being divided constantly over petty differences and unimportant squabbles.

In the end, I have to blame Gravewit and The Community equally. We came first. Gravewit I can't speak for as a person, but regardless of my personal beliefs I think anyone would be hard pressed to say he has helped GWiki rather than stifling it, in the long run. He has had the chance to really make GWiki and even GameWikis flourish and he squandered it, just as Karlos has been wary of for so long. And the community - well, the problem with you is the abuse or nonuse of the rights you get as Wikians. Whether it is vandalism or apathy, in the end the Community speaks for itself and decides what it wants. This GuildWiki, GWW, and PvX that we have now, this is all your doing. We all share responsibility for this outcome...and I think we should all be ashamed of ourselves. (T/C) 03:11, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Preach on, sister!--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 15:01, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I think people tend to forget this is a hobby about a game. I had to stop reading the Wikia discussion page so I'm glad you've warned us about the fractious nature of the "official" wiki. I can only imagine how much worse that must be.  I think I'll stick to keeping my head down and being relatively obscure, it's worked pretty well so far. -Gildan Bladeborn 14:18, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * * Drools* &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  14:30, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Well said. One thing I want to add is a bit of ancient history. GuildWiki was once the pariah of the community, particularly in PvP. It is perhaps a bit hard to see it now, but there was once a time when "wiki it" was a synonym for "l2p noob". And some of that criticism was well-deserved (I don't know if you have been here long enough to have known User:Ollj. If not, I'll spare you the sordid details). GuildWiki became good because enough people cared for a long enough time to polish dross into gold. We were the trailblazers, we had the zeal of the pioneer, we were the underdogs, so we did the best we could, despite the greater GW community, despite ArenaNet's indifference (how long was it again before we became more than a "listed fansite"?), despite sometimes crippling MediaWiki bugs, despite atrocious site performance, and, most importantly, despite Gravewit.

It was only sometime between the GWF and GWN releases that GuildWiki achieved critical mass (much of it due to a few gems in our builds section) and ArenaNet got interested. Unfortunately for us, so did the rest of the community that had heretofore seen us with disdain, many of them regulars at GWOnline (who even remembers any more that GWO has a wiki also?) and TGH. They saw GuildWiki as sub-par, were envious of our success, and when GWW arrived, by God, they were going to do something about it. GWW was corrupted from the start by an extraordinary focus on policies, to the extent that from February to April the greatest activity there was in creating such monstrosities as GWW:USER, GWW:SIGN and GWW:GUILD. If anyone remembered that for most of GuildWiki's existence we didn't even have a USER or SIGN, nor even an NPA in fact, they remained quiet. And, with this focus on policies, came a ridiculously elevated role of adminship. It was partly ArenaNet's fault---they should have let the admin team grow there organically---but mostly it was people who didn't understand how wikis worked and thought admins were like forum mods, miniature devas who decide the fates of men. If you look at GuildWiki's RFA log, you'll see that all the initial candidates simply refused the nomination, and this log doesn't even list those who were offered (and refused) the position before GuildWiki had an RFA process. Barek, IMHO the best admin we have ever had, was brought almost kicking and screaming into the GuildWiki admin team.

Yet, despite all its (current) negatives, GWW is still the future. All wikis go through growing pains. GuildWiki itself had some spectacular battles in its early days, long before builds entered the picture. Over time, the community there will mature as well. An overabundance of passion is, if anything, too much of a good thing. If Auron, Skuld, Readem, etc. keep up their antics, they will eventually face the music. (Whatever you may think about an arbcomm, you must agree that Biro and Xeeron at least "get it" about wikis.) Eventually the community there will tire of battles and settle down for the long march towards feature completeness, where they will be quicker than us because they can simply copy the uncopyrightable facts that we had to collect the hard way. (Exactly such a project is already underway.) GuildWiki is awesome, without question, but the arrow of time is pointing away from us now.

Sorry for eating up so much space in your talk page. 193.52.24.125 22:48, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well written and many good points, 193.52. --Dirigible 23:05, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Still, GWW sucks because they let themselves fall into a Ultimate Pit of Death because they introduced guilds pages, which makes the GWW useless on a stick (at least some of it). Also, they don't ask a quarter of the questions asked here, where I always patrol RC to anwser these questions, this means either everyone here is more Inquisitive than the crowd there, there are people who go here for anwsers, or last but not certainly least, they are arguing, policy-making or rambling to be as good here. I still like it here, but however contradicting you may counter-rant me, I don't particularly like GWW for its relatively useless areas and getting sold out here which I don't particularly care about. GWW must be a an equal balance of terror to be the future. Flechette 23:02, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

193.52.24.125, I can see I've vastly underestimated you from the start...I thought (forgive me) that you were "just another anon", but it's clear to me that you've at least done your homework...or were actually here first-hand, if I'm interpreting your tenses right. Which is pretty impressive, to me at least! Anyone who knows about Ollj and the "Days Before Admins" has been here since the very beginning almost. In any case this does help to explain many of your comments (on everything) to me; it puts things in perflective.

As to what you said - yes, I think you're absolutely right. The "ancient history" I know a little bit of, just by reading very old Talkpage archives and stuff. It is very hard to accept changes like what's happening or has been happening. GuildWiki, GWW, GWO, etc. are all intangible things. You can't look at things like profits, number of employees, customer satisfaction, etc. with online sites the way you can for a real-world company or business. Success and failure are relative terms and it is hard to say when exactly things are going up or down. Like you say, with the pariah/critical mass reference, GWiki is on its way down on the parabolic growth curve, and eventually, sometime in the future, who knows when. GWW will be the new GWiki. Eventually is a long time though...

Yes, I agree that Biro and Xeeron at least have some idea what should be happening. Any/all of the people who were with GuildWiki for a long time got to see firsthand what happens to a Wiki when you do X or enforce Y; though the medium is somewhat different, as long as some remnants of GWiki remain over at GWW, they will be kept on the right track. However perilously that may be >.> Huoh.

I also agree with your dislike of policies, as I ranted somewhere above...I think Karlos put it really well in his "Farewell Address" where he says, "Admins on GWW have been basically stripped of their discretionary powers." There is too much reliance on the hard letter of "The Law" at GWW, and it has been that way since its start from what I have read. Compared to GWiki, well, they are real hard-asses...And GWW:GUILD! Urrgh...like Flechette says, that is going to be one hell of a headache for ANet to sort out when the time for maturity comes.

I think the "Less Inquisitive" part of GWW is that they are less...how I say? Less caring about Guild Wars. I am not saying GW itself has reached its heyday already, but back in the days when Prophecies was new and fresh and exciting. Well. We at GWiki documented everything, no matter how insignificant or trivial it seemed. I mean, we have this fracking huge number of articles that even I myself would concede are utterly pointless and unncessary - obscure terminology, an article about "Casting symbols", documentation of past holiday events...These sorts of things have little to no relevance for an actual GW player. Yet we have them anyway. Why? Because we are thorough and complete and even at times, redundant. But that is a Good Thing(tm), one of the main reasons why we will still be way ahead of GWW in terms of completeness for quite some time...We just have too much info here, useless or not. It is like Wikipedia. Hitting "Random Page" here is fun, because I will probably stumble upon something I never even heard of before, and it will be a fully fleshed out article. In GWW? Nah...

The thing that is hard for me personally, is the excruciating wait in between when GWiki "dies" and GWW "matures". How long will that be? A mere month of downtime? A year? A decade? Never? Surely I'm being pessimistic, but I just can't help shake the feeling that before the transition is done we will all be gone and over. Even me, last bastion of GWiki, janitor who will turn off the lights, etc. When I look over at GWW and see the totally wild fights between users that go on (compared to the relative tranquility here at GWiki), it just stupefies me. How many have fallen, and how many are yet to fall? (Yes, I am really missing Karlos, and Skuld, and Tanaric, and... :\ )

Change is Good(TM), ultimately. Without change things get stagnant, rot, and decay into oblivion. But it is hard to accept. It is hard to look into the face of destruction and laugh, laugh because you know it doesn't matter..."The new guard replacing the old" as they have said many times. But I'm a member of the old, however late to the party that may be, and what happens to me? I don't want to be replaced and I can't very well become the "new guard". I just don't know what to do at this time.

Really, all I can say is: I'm lost. And I'm afraid of what will happen. I face each new day on GWiki knowing that it is one step closer to the last...I do the simple managerial duties that admins should, because it is rote. But how will I know when it's time to call it quits? I can preach and delete and ban all I want; in the end it's just a facade to hide behind, a mask of confidence against the end. I'm no leader, I don't care what you say...Maybe I'm one of the only ones left, maybe I'm the best we have, but sometimes the best is not enough. Just like God and Christianity, in times of darkness all I can really rely on is my faith in GuildWiki. Live by GuildWiki, die by GuildWiki.

It's hard to accept change. (T/C) 00:42, 25 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, I have been here nearly from the beginning. For a while I had a username and even achieved a certain amount of renown. Your last two paragraphs are a bit too sad. Cheer up! Death, when it comes, is a celebration of a life well lived. This is true of humans and communities alike. And we are far from death. Our recent changes may not crawl by at a furious pace like at GWW, but as recently as the day after GW:EN's release we had a full strategy guide for the Great Destroyer, quest text and all. It would be a week before GWW would catch up to us. (Compare article histories if you don't believe me.) Think of adminning this wiki as surfing. The fun doesn't even start until the wave crests. Chin up, and keep your balance! 193.52.24.125 13:27, 25 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I am sorry Entropy, for provoking irrational people =(. It isn't kind of me! I try not to be insolent, but I disagree with censorship, questionable administrative practices, and stupidity :/. Allergic tbh. Sorry if I offended you, it was in no way intentional. Readem (talk *contribs ) 03:54, 26 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I've been fully working on GWW for the last 3 days, specially on Gem's project and related tasks, and my impression so far is that GWW has a strong "sense of work" in comparison to GuildWiki's "sense of community". I don't find things like the GWW:SIGN crusaders you mentioned to be that bad, but a consequence of this policy-obsessed ambient (probably a consequence of GWW user base being mostly former GuildWiki users who left with a solid idea of how to start a wiki) is that talk pages are full of suggestions and corrections about your work on the wiki, and talk pages such as this are something I tend to miss. I mean, "User talk: Entropy" is practically a mini-community, a common space were many users acctually "hang out". This kind of user talks are an every-day thing we at GuildWiki kinda take for granted, but, at least by my first impression, I can say this is something important that is lacking at GWW. I feel GWW is more like a job than a community, and probably that's not a bad thing in a way, but the social aspect is also important, as it attracts more users to the wiki, strengthening its community and thus enhacing its quality.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 10:39, 26 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I can kinda see a similarity between how the Wikis work and how I tend to play the game, and I think it's pretty accurate... when I'm playing a mission for the first time, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing, I join a full party, work my way through it. Same goes for quests; I take my time and have fun seeing all the dialog as well. Second, third characters? Not so much. I know how to do everything now, so I tend to prefer working alone. I've already seen the quest, so I do it quickly and efficiently.
 * Same goes for the Wikis. Like Entropy said, GuildWiki came into being at the same time as Prophecies, so people documented every cool thing they found, and had fun doing it. Obviously, these people still have fun, or they wouldn't keep doing this; but we've already seen how everything works, we know at least one possible result for most of our actions, and we adjust accordingly. This, I believe, is why GWW works so much differently, yet simultaneously the same. Most of the admins already know why ideas should be shot down, and already know what ideas have been shot down, so they're especially picky about policies. Everyone already knows how to format articles correctly, so they get done without much discussion going on. If you look through GWW, you'll see lots of bland-looking, yet fully finished articles; no discussion on the skill page, all the relevant notes, and so on. It just looks like people already did it before, and the second time around was boring as hell. Look at the skill pages for the new skills (EotN skills), and you see extra notes, huge discussions, and, well, it looks like people had fun. GWW is the younger child; it may get more attention sometimes, but it can't quite live up to it's older sibling, is stuck wearing hand-me-downs, and it sometimes doesn't have the option to learn from it's mistakes, like it's older sibling did. But then again, it's got the benefit of the experience, and it's still young enough to really grow into it's role and make a difference. I feel bad ignoring one wiki just to edit the other, so I stay on both; but sometimes, the younger one just needs more attention, you know? It's just hitting puberty too.
 * ...eh, I lost track of my point and turned that from a gaming analogy into a family analogy. Meh, still got a point across. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  13:56, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Still, it's a great point. /Agree.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 17:23, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
 * And what's worse... ever since GWW allowed guild pages, people have gotten it into their thick heads that though some law of well-the-names-are-similar-so-must-be-the-policies, WE allow guild pages. It's annoying me to no end! --Macros 22:59, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
 * But we've got people like Entropy to push little "delete" buttons on those, so it's not a huge deal. :P They're not as common as they were before, I haven't seen any attempts at creating a guild: page in a while now... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  23:50, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, I will do /agree with everyone here...sigh. It's kind of ironic how GWW has a policy for Userpages, but the one on GWiki was shot down long time ago. I think that is something you were getting at, Ereanor. They are both Wikis, about the same subject, but very different nonetheless... (T/C) 00:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Staff-sassin
Well, it actually seems a decent concept for a joke build, but it still has 1 huge problem: No dual to use impale :P --Gimmethegepgun 09:42, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah...I was checking the "Attack Chains Quick Reference" and just picking everything that wasn't in Dagger Mastery. Hrm...Perhaps I could stick in Vampiric Assault and recommend a weapon swap. That is not in Dagger Mastery or Critical Strikes, and it's Lifestealing. However, then I lose my Elite Skill! Oh noes :( [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:05, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You could pop in Twisting Fangs with a weapon swap and use promise as your elite (but GL ever finding enough energy to do it when you drop the staff) --Gimmethegepgun 18:41, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * That is a good idea - two more Conditions ftw. That is everything except Dazed (leet only) and Burning (not in Azn skills). Although it also means I can drop Impale, since the extra Deep Would would be redundant. I like the idea of Promise...the only issue is that Palm Strike also fits totally perfectly for the concept. Hmm. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:09, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Sysop
When do you become one? —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  13:09, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't know that anymore than the rest of peoples, except maybe LordBiro who I think still retains the bureaucrat position or whatver it is called to give sysopness. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:05, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Re: HoM Pages
Sorry about clogging up the new pages/recent changes. I'm done creating new pages now though, I was just copying and pasting to make it faster and got a lot of pages created in a short time. Edits obviously won't be as frequent because I have to make progress in the game to change one of them (unless I'm reformatting, but I think the format I've got now looks fine) so it shouldn't happen again. I'll also try to update them a little less frequently so that my pages don't appear on the recent changes as often. If you need to filter out the user pages and user talk pages from the recent changes list you can just select (Main) for Namespace and click Go. -- Kirbman 14:45, 22 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Well I was just looking and most of those pages are virtually empty, like "No Monumental Tapestry" or stuff. It seems like for one character you could make one HoM page with all the monuments on it, to save space. And if you end up never getting around to finishing them, well, then it's a lot of wasted space...I mean, getting full HoM for multiple chars will take quite some time eh? Oh well, it's fine and like you say just isolated incident. Heh, at first I thought it was a spam vandal attack, RC flooded with Newpages... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:05, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Grats
Congratulations on your promotion ^_^ --Wizardboy777 18:52, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Toss those dirty vandals into the realm of chaos! BWAHAHAHAHA! Also, bad spelling FTL --Gimmethegepgun 18:56, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * That was a typo, and it was in a big word >.> And I have a cold. --Wizardboy777 19:01, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * How does a cold have anything to do with it? --Gimmethegepgun 19:03, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

gj entropy. Readem (talk *contribs ) 19:22, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Whoa, well that was sudden. I was expecting something more...I dunno...obvious? I just logged in and noticed the extra functions, Delete, Protect, etc. I'd thought there would be like an e-mail notification or something that tells ya...or something on the RFA...you know? I guess I'm new to this, lol! Thanks everyone...

Just so you remember, I can't be here 24/7 as like all other admins I have RealLife(tm). But you can rest assured that whenever I am logged on, if there's a vandal attack, I'll be there. Unless someone beats me to it of course. (T/C) 22:59, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Did you expect it to be long and drawn out ;p. Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:44, 23 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Well tbh I did not know what to expect, so...meh? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:46, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

So, who's the lucky user who gets to be the first one to see your banhammer in action? Now I'm almost rooting for a single vandal, but online only during the times that you're active, and doing easily bannable vandalizations. (three of the previous words are not words, can you spot them all?) -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  01:05, 23 September 2007 (CDT)


 * "Too Slow!". "Banhammer", "Bannable", "Vandalizations". Owned! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:08, 23 September 2007 (CDT)


 * (edit conflict) Damn you! /fistshake. I'm posting my peppy comment anyway. And correct!
 * And whe have already had a winner! User:Wikia: Buying wikis for dollars has taken home the prize, and a nice dent in his or her head. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  01:09, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol. Well, that's enough for my first day (err, night). I'll be back tomorrow when I can, to continue and chip away at the massively overflowing Candidates for Deletion log :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:11, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Indeed. And on a completely unreleated note, if you get SSB:B when it comes out, let me know and we'll duke it out on Wi-Fi. :P --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  01:13, 23 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Congrats :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 04:35, 23 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Congratulations ^^ --Vipermagi 04:46, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Congratulations. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  08:26, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Damn I'm too late, but CONGRATULATIONS!! &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  11:05, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Geezum, ur going on a deletion rampage! Oh, and grats on the adminship--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 11:10, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * See Category:Candidates for deletion? The backlog is enormous. And just like it says: "It is an admin's sacred duty, one way or another, to keep this category empty." I am just doing my job. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:11, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * That's a lot of work :P &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  11:36, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Okay then, every "Article" that was flagged for deletion has been dealt with. Now there are just "Images" left. And oh crap, there are so many...and most are for the Armor galleries...huoh! I need a break. (T/C) 12:02, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't work yourself too hard, we wouldn't want the Entropy Fanclub to implode when their mistress almost collapses from work and stress :p. --Kale Ironfist 18:35, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Holy, you cleared that backlog??! Err ya gratz ^^;; Jennalee 16:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Carmine and I
Don't worry...I've said all I need to say...he corrected a page I had edited, namely Slavers' Exile, which I had indeed incorrectly used "it's"...so he was in the right. I just had two issues with him that I needed to be clear on 1) a single incident is not worth a Grammar Police "helpful hint" 2) he needs to post the pages he is talking about otherwise people will assume he is talking about their User Page. I've gotten my point across so as far as I'm concerned the issue is resolved. Oh and thank you on backing me up on the "don't post about it unless they do it multiple times".--Thor79••Talk 18:20, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Adminship
Congratulations, you're work loud just got infinitively bigger! And now GuidlWiki has even more tentacles into your very soul. Soon, very soon, it will come for the rest. Just remember, it doesn't matter if the glass is half full or half empty. The real problem is, who left there glass out? JK, congrats on being this much closer to Skuld. Have a congratulatory magic card: --<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash 22:55, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Hehe, thanks a lot Gigathrash :) (T/C) 18:10, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * What's with the 176/65? Seems a kinda random number --Gimmethegepgun 15:24, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * That card is imba. Nerf plx.
 * ...but on a more serious note, that card is imba.
 * And being totally serious here, I would love to see that printed as a converted mana cost five, 3/5 creature. T: Put a Ban counter on CARDNAME. T, X, Remove X Ban counters from CARDNAME: Remove X target creatures from the game.


 * Admins have a restore function as well, right? T, X: Return X creatures removed from play with CARDNAME into play under their owner's control. Put X Ban counters on CARDNAME.


 * FYI, I play Magic. A lot. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  15:40, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * The number is Entropy's Member Number. Of course its Imba, its an ADMIN!--<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash  16:39, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Admins are beatable, eh? Skuld got chump-blocked by a million nooblet tokens, and look at him now. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  17:44, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Skuld was removed to the graveyard, but we put him back into play in the "Hibernate" state or whatever you call it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:10, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You just have to hit her with 65 vandal tokens. Shes not as resilient as Skuld yet.--<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash  18:13, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Of Slaying
Is a 19% Deathbane good 'nuf? Just found one of those for a sword, so if your interested, leave a message or pm me ig. --Vipermagi 14:49, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * And I have a 20% dragonslaying for axe - if you still need it. No idea when your wishlist was last updated ^^' -Progger 15:27, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I have a lot of "of ___ slaying" mods scattered throughout my gold collection. Any weapon types in particular?  And how high of a % must they be?  Give me a holler in game and I'll see what I can dig up.  Grats on the promotion by the way. Kelvin Greyheart 17:06, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Sorry, I only want max at 20%...Like the Sundering mod, the Slaying mods are a gamble and it's a waste to put anything less than max on an item. But thank you anyway.
 * I will take any sort of max slaying mod, regardless of weapontype. As long as it's not, you know, for a Staff :) Also, no duplicates. I already have a 20% for Deathbane and 20% for Marksmanship (bow strings) pending as other offers, so anything that isn't those I will buy. That 20% Dragonslaying, yeah...and anything else you have. Remember, 20% only if you please. (oh, and thanks!) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:10, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Well, I have a 20% Deathbane for a sword that you can have if you want, but it comes with the sword. EDIT: Don't worry, it's a decent sword, I just don't have the patience to sell stuff. Lord Belar 19:17, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I wonder if you would have wanted a Tenguslaying mod if I hadn't trashed it? I think I still have some Deathbanes too. --Kale Ironfist 19:33, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm a high rank in Ebon Vanguard title, so I can craft an infinite number of Charrslaying weapons if you need them... the mods don't salvage off though, so you'd be stuck with the kinda kick-ass Ebon Vanguard weapon skins. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  19:35, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Louise Haup owns joo. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:39, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Nuh-uh, Jonathan Blunt owns joo. More. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  19:41, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol, Expert Salvage Kit + 5 Charr Carving >>>>> 10 Plat + crappy skin + grinding for title FTL! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:43, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * But what if you want an Axe? Or Hammer? Or Scythe? Or Daggers? Or Wand? Or Staff? Or Spear? --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  19:51, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wand and Staff is pretty LMAO, just like a 15^50 mod...The others, yeah I will concede that, but it's still pretty wasteful...sigh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:59, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I have 19% Deathbane for a staff too; you might want it for a critical wander build. :) Lord Belar 20:45, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

NOTE TO ALL: Remember that it is still an undefined long period of time before I can actually get into GW, let alone buy EotN. Please be patient, and thanks for waiting! I will start a list soon to keep track of everyone's offers... (T/C) 19:59, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Subliminal Message
Lul. And how much did they pay you to advertise that oil place?--<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash 18:49, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Having fun? :D --Macros 18:52, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Entropy, Guild Wiki laxative, purging the crap since three days ago!--<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash 18:56, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol...well, there is not much else you can do when monotonously checking each and every image by hand. What's a little fun subliminal messaging? :) I figure at the least it will make Fyren and the other admins laugh if they read the delete log fully... :D Oh, and I'm not paid for advertising. (Yet?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:00, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Trouble looms
Uh-oh, Entropy is purging the images in Category:Candidates for deletion. This won't end well... --Gimmethegepgun 19:04, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Almost done. :P --Macros 19:15, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Vandal attack in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...--<font color=#000000>Gig <font color=#000000>ath <font color=#000000>rash 19:16, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've just finished Entropy's card in my new M:tG set, now for the rest of the admins... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  19:16, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm waiting to see what she does with the last one... the suspense is killing me. :P --Macros 19:20, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Go go Entropy! Admins can't be weighed down by personal feelings, do what you've gotta do! --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  19:24, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow that is some impressive contributions to Special:Log/delete. Yeah none of the admins like going through images to be deleted because it's so time consuming (is this new armour picture better than this del tagged one, is this armour actually incorrect blah blah) and more importantly image deletions can't be undone. Gem used to be pretty good at it but I dunno maybe Entropy can take on that role! :D --Xasxas256 19:52, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Look at that category... it's so clean! --Macros 19:57, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Okay! As of NOW, the Candidates for Deletion and the Candidates for Banning are EMPTY. I'd consider that a good day's worth of contribs :) Xas, you'd be surprised how long some of those images have been sitting around! And many of them really only take like 5 seconds - if they don't link to anything anymore, I delete...simple. I am sure I will get some complaints in a while about a mistaken delete or something, but I figure 1/300 or so isn't bad... :) (T/C) 19:59, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, somewhere around 375 deletes since someone else actually did something, with a total of about 400 deletes by Entropy. Wow. --Gimmethegepgun 20:39, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Bonus points if you can answer my Riddles. :) (T/C) 20:41, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * What riddles? --Gimmethegepgun 20:43, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * They're hidden away from sight, never to be seen again...--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 20:43, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * They were in the deleted images... Lord Belar 20:46, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, right, those ones. They were kinda weird --Gimmethegepgun 20:48, 24 September 2007 (CDT)


 * "What am I? Strong as steel, works by feel for one gives room, for one brings doom."
 * "What tears down mountains, can be used to build castles, blinds some, yet helps others to see?"
 * "Here's a riddle. What grows from the earth, even if you cut it, and continues to grow even after death?"
 * "What am I? Round I am, yet flat as a board, altar to the Volfen Lord."

Btw, these are all from Breath of Fire II, the video game. :) (T/C) 20:51, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol, NO WONDER I WAS THINKING "I REMEMBER THIS FROM SOMEWHERE!". Should I answer them, or should I sit at the sides and snicker at others' answers? --Kale Ironfist 01:55, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Idk, I doubt anyone else will know the answers :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:15, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Free userboxes or other favors to anyone who can answer, except Kale 'cuz he already knows them :) (T/C) 00:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I have the answers for all except #3; should I post them here or give others a chance? Lord Belar 01:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Post away! Maybe you're wrong after all, though I doubt that. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Meanie! *pouts* --Kale Ironfist 13:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Archive the tenth?
41k long. Also GW just updated my AI and I now spam Grammar Nazi whenever I can. =D-- 22:48, 24 September 2007 (CDT)
 * 100k or bust, I archive too much lately. Mostly my own fault ofcourse, but meh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:42, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've got a couple big images I can post here if you really wanna hit 100k... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  01:49, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Image:Mgrinshpon Contributions.png
Worked as designed. The redirect was perfectly fine. —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  05:57, 25 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, Special:Broken Redirects said that it linked to a nonexistant page. Sorry...I am not sure if you can un-delete images but I will see what I can do. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:15, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I did a "Restore", whatever that does. I am puzzled about that image, since it seems to be a "Hard Redirect". It takes you straight to your Contribs as it should, however, it does not notify the user where they were redirected from (i.e. the image). So I can not actually see the image to see if it came back. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:40, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * "I am sure I will get some complaints in a while about a mistaken delete or something, but I figure 1/300 or so isn't bad"
 * ...oh god, Entropy can read the future and give you customized statistics before they happen! Unless someone else complains about something and makes it 2/300. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  00:48, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

Getting back into the groove
Can you please bring me up to speed on everything that has happened here since May/June and where I should start with things that need editing? I would like to be more active here again. —ǥrɩɳsɧ ƿoɲ  00:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm...I can't help much there since I mostly do maintenance rather than actual editing, but anyways...The main things which have happened are the release of GWEN/EotN, and the Wikia move. EotN I don't even have, but I am sure you can skim around and find those relatively new articles and help out there. We have lots of incomplete data for them...Wikia Move, is not an editing type thing, but you should know about it if you are going to become active again. Wikia Move has details. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Any wikidrama or anything? —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  01:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, none at all... Lord Belar 01:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

"Of Slaying" Mods
I have a 20% Demonslaying Axe Grip taking up space in my storage that you can *have* (pm Not Okay I Promise, I'll get it to you somehow)
 * Forgot to login -.- X Deity X 01:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will add you to the list...thanks! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

dude, don't delete comments
Entropy, you made a change on the Talk:Game updates with this comment, was that directed at me? Because you should know by the sorts of contributions I make to this wiki, I would not knowning do such a thing!! Sifting through the diff history of that article, something very funky happened, and looks like you thinking I did it delibarately, which is a strange conclusion to come to (just look through my recent contribs for evidence). --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 01:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I couldn't tell what had happened, and I apologize if I don't know you well enough to characterize your contributions automatically. If you took offense, I'd like to say that none was intended; at worst I was being sarcastic, since anyone with a username should know that that's a no-no, and therefore doesn't require explanation. I didn't think you would take it seriously much, but again, I'm sorry if I offended you. I will be more considerate in the future... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Pay back time
'Member when I made you a bunch of Magic Cards? I'm turning in the favor, I need a spiffy looking icon for this skill. :)--<font color="Black">Gigathrash 01:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, a random suggestion just popped up for it, though it may be a little advanced: An oddly tinted RoF with blood spurting out :P --Gimmethegepgun 01:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Humm...okay. Give me a few days and I'll be back. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Adminz
Hey, could you add some data (of yourself) Here? &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  12:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that good enough? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Banhammer" LOL :p &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  13:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh, not as funny as Gares Redstorm. RC Voyeurism ftw. --Kale Ironfist 00:19, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Know what's funnier? There's a 'critical wandage' build on PvX that was vetted for a short period of time :P --Wizardboy777 02:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe they removed my vote on that... Lord Belar 02:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Help me Spock..er Entropy!
Mind checking my talk page for the problem, Latest entry at the bottom. Thank You. Imaginos 14:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

24.118.41.12
Ugh.. finally &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  15:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Another rampant case of "ePeen ftl" --Gimmethegepgun 16:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Tetk leader
I added delete tags to this as I believed it to be a guild page, you removed them so I was obviously mistaken, can you explain my fault? <font color="Black">L' <font color="Maroon">yra <font color="Black">V' <font color="Maroon">alo  16:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a userpage. We don't allow guildpages in the mainspace, but your Userpage can have pretty much anything...within policy ofcourse. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism strike again!
Vandals lie helpless in the streets, struck down by the cruel force of nature known only as ENTROPY! However, not is all well in the city of GuildWikiopolis. A legion of armor images has invaded the category for deletion sector, they are causing havoc, destruction, and chaos galore as they tear through innocent page after armor page of new GWEN armor! Who will help us? Who will answer the call? Who shall save us from the dastardly doers of deletion?!?!

Jah, I was bored, but there are over 100 pics up for the chopping block. (Also: SQUISH!)--<font color="Black">Gigathrash 18:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it an awesome, is it a sauce? No! It's Entropy!! &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  18:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * But it is still awesomesauce! --Vipermagi 19:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

OMG, I am gone for just a few days and all hell breaks loose in the Candidates for Deletion. Sheesh. >.> (T/C) 01:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Careful with them this time, overdo it and... YOUR HEAD ASPLODE! --Gimmethegepgun 01:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Je pense que tout les gens ne lisent pas Image use policy. I AM NOT A BOT! (T/C) 01:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Norn scars
Even though it claims that they're still linked to that page, they aren't. When you put a section in with  it messes up with article lnks. It removes the "links here" for the actual page it's on, but the page that the section is in still thinks it has it. I know this due to my scouraging of light damage to holy damage, the /Collector pages had it removed but the normal part thought it was still there --Gimmethegepgun 01:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I am not quite sure I understand what you're talking about, but I'll take your word for it...thanks for letting me know. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try to make an example.

Say there's a collector named Someguy. The list of things he gives is at Someguy/Collector, as they always are. If a link in Someguy/Collector, which has been added to the page as a section, is removed, the server still believes that Someguy links to it, though Someguy/Collector, the one supplying the link, does not. So, with Special:Whatlinkshere, Someguy/Collector will not be shown as linking there, but Someguy will. Does that make more sense? --Gimmethegepgun 02:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I understand. Like User:Imaginos has said, "Damn categories and subcategories!" Wiki is great for mass information distribution, but there are little kinks like this, heh... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)