GuildWiki talk:Community portal/Archive 18

Edit Window Bar take 2
The new new edit bar: keep it whatever turn it off Take 1 is here, and we wanted to have the new "floating" edit bar for Monaco (with the shorter summary box) turned off. Now that Wikia updated it, do we still not want it? Please post your opinions if you have them! -- ◄mendel► 20:30, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * What does the new one look like? And where's Archive #17? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Set your skin to monaco and edit something. Or click [ this]. -- ◄mendel► 20:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't mind the new one now, just would have to get used to the buttons being in a different place. The Editing tips are useful for new users, and the blue bar makes the buttons stand out.  As long as it stays blue, and not red like last time... :S  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Press Ctrl-F5 to shrink the poll if it looks wider than high! Thank you for the feedback. -- ◄mendel► 23:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Hahaha! What did you do this time? RoseOfKali 01:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Ctrl+F5 fixed it, but that was still rather bizarre. :P RoseOfKali 01:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does everything break for you?--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 01:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It broke for me too, briefly.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  04:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It broke for me also, but like Rose did, Ctrl+F5 fixed it. &mdash; Balistic

Urmmm...
What happened to RC? I can't click the "Show new changes starting from " button Random Time  07:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * After much fiddling, it's back - thanks to uberfuzzy from wikia IRC for helping me out Random Time  07:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Remote Area
Named places inside explorables get treated as landmark or "Point of Interest"; there is no fixed format for those yet, and many don't yet have their own page. There's work to do! ;-) -- ◄mendel► 11:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I do think they all should have their own page, and link to the explorable area they're in. I don't know if there's enough uniformity to make a template, unless it's really basic, like "Located in explorable area so-and-so" and "Trivia" or "related information" or something like that. Some of them have nothing special about them, they're just there.  Others are quest locations.  Others are mentioned in lore.  That kind of thing.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Presumable Template:location box can be used to hold an image, campaign info, type=landmark, and "Part of" would give the explorable it is in. Sometimes a map comes in handy as well. You'd want to list what quests it is involved in, and soemtimes there are NPCs gathering there, so basically it could be a cut-down version of a regular location article. -- ◄mendel► 22:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

New Video namespace (moved)
&larr; Moved from Video talk:Bananaphone

moving conversations
The alternative to moving conversations is to leave them in place and to add a link to them from places where they're relevant (e.g. here). -- ◄mendel► 06:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Link from here to places where they are relevant means less things are buried under generic archives. This place was originally meant to be about generic community stuff anyways.  That intention can partially be glimpsed from the wording "If you have any questions that aren't relevant to a specific talk page...".  The moves are usually done with sectional edits that have a edit summary to hopefully alert anyone watching the topic that something happened in the thread, so when they come check it out they can follow the link to the new discussion.  There is a flaw where people who only use the Watchlist to keep track and had too many thing watched so the move get flushed away may not noticed the moved discussion that might be continuing.  So that is indeed a factor to be weighted upon. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 06:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Previously in...
Is there a policy about how to handle references to previous updates of the game? (couldn't find one in Policy or Category:Policy_proposals) As a newbie, I find it distracting to read in the main text about quests, monsters, bosses, or loot that was available in 2007 or before Factions was released. Instead, I prefer to read about the game's current features.

For example, the Lion's Arch article lists three NPCs found in LA "prior to release of Factions," a Getting there item which is listed as "removed ...2007," and an exit "added in 2006." Given the current length of the article, these entries make it harder rather than easier to find one's way around.

On the other hand, I suspect if I were a long time veteran, I might want to readily see things that had changed (esp. if I had been away for a time).

An easy compromise might be to add to any article, where relevant, a Previously in Guild Wars subsection to the Notes that would include changes that occurred more than 6 months prior. For example, the various references in Lion's Arch would be replaced with the following:

--begin example--
 * Notes
 * lorem ipsum
 * Previously in Guild Wars
 * Prior to the release of Factions, these NPCs were also found in Lion's Arch: x, y, z
 * Before May 25, 2007, you could also reach Lion's Arch via the Canthan Ferry Captain.
 * The east exit to Lion's Gate was added October 25, 2006.

--end example--

What do people think? I don't think this an urgent issue. At the same time, I am motivated (as I progress through the game) to re-arrange such references.--Tennessee Ernie Ford 08:27, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I do think it's a good idea to put things removed from the present game (and not likely to come back again) in a separate section away from the main contents of the article. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 08:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have time now to look it up, but I've seen the issue discussed and the gist of it was, we document the game as it is, which confirms your view, T.E.F. We do have a nice Template:historical, which can be used thus:


 * Feel free to use it on articles where historic notes detract you; you can then easily skip the outdated stuff when looking for current info. -- ◄mendel► 10:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This looks great! Assuming no one objects, I'll move >6 mo entries to Notes; leave newer entries where they are; and use the Historical template in both cases. Thanks for the help, support. --Tennessee Ernie Ford 21:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You're a pleasure to support! :-)
 * A second advantage of the template is that players coming back after an absence can quickly find out what has changed, as well. -- ◄mendel► 03:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * My 2 cents; maybe a header for it, so skill pages with several bugs/anomalies don't get huge clusterfucks of those templates. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:35, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Seems sensible for long articles - check out Lion's Arch and let me know if you like the way that was handled.--Tennessee Ernie Ford 17:22, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Would you like to have the ability to place it all in a box (e.g. medium solid gray) with a simple |box or something on the template call? -- ◄mendel► 20:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds sensible and elegant. I can imagine two use-cases: 1-2 entries (where the current solution seems fine) and 3+ entries (where a box makes more sense). I think whether the community needs one or both solutions is mostly a matter of taste. --Tennessee Ernie Ford 22:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Tip of the Day
I think all we really need is some kind of general guide to the game itself that includes all the common terminology, such as clarifying the differences between the types of cities, how map travel works, etc. I met a guy in DoA once who, after visiting the Guild Hall, mapped to Kamadan, then into the Vortex, and then back to DoA, and I was like... you could've just used the "Leave Guild Hall" button... and he was like "The what button?" He got to DoA not knowing about it... And I don't think it is mentioned anywhere on this wiki. RoseOfKali 02:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't know when that guy joined the guild. If he's unable to notice that button on that dialog, he's not going to be able to make effective use of this wiki either. But maybe we can collect tips like that and run them in the sidebar or somewhere, as "tip of the day". -- ◄mendel► 03:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's rather hard to reach DoA without being in a guild much of the time. And the guy actually taught me how to heroway farm DoA, so he's not an idiot, it's just one of those things that nobody ever talks about and you won't know if you don't discover it yourself.  And a tip of the day thing is kind of a cool idea, because there are a lot of random little things that are great to know, but don't really fit into an article very well.  There should be an actual article with those tips than anyone can access, and one of the entries will be selected to go into the tip of the day.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Gogo Tip of the day. In other words, let's collect them and then see ho wwe can work them into some display. -- ◄mendel► 04:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I also like the idea of highlighting tips.
 * There's a Bug template. Can we add a Hot Tip template (using an "!" or light bulb)? (and, referring to the above conversation, maybe also Newbie Tip and/or Veteran Tip using same symbol, different color)


 * I dunno if we need a "hot tip" template, it would be more of an application kind of deal, like java or something, which I know nothing about, and will happily leave that to Ishy or mendel or Viper, whoever knows how to code those. But before that is done, we would need to create an actual page of tips, as mender suggested above, and provided a link for it.  I guess I'll get it started.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Tips placement
See [?useskin=monaco&usetheme=custom Main Page/editcopy] for an example. The tip of the day box will change once in a while, but not every time you reload the page. Due to the fact that Wikia development resources is focused on the Monaco skin, this widget which is powered by Wikia technology will not work on Monobook skin. I propose we put this box on the Main Page and in the anonnotice (using CSS to hide it so Monobook users do not see an empty box), until people with free time developes a solution that would work with Monobook users also.

Also, if anyone can change the color of that box to better match the ingame tip box colors, that'd be MUCH appreciated. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 22:01, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Infobox change to accomodate ads
Currently, our infoboxes get pushed down by ads. There is a proposal at Template talk:BeastInfo2 that would make them get pushed to the left instead (but not changed to the proposed layout on that template). See [ Cootle Sizzlehorn/Test version2] for a demo. This change mainly affects logged-out users, which are most of our readers, I suspect. To be affected and logged in, set ads to show in your skin preferences. Please voice your opinion here or there if you have one. -- ◄mendel► 02:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Infobox change follow up
I had gone ahead and implemented the change. But now with long infoboxes, things can look really weird. Hence I am exploring the possibility of a "2-part" infobox system. You can see the difference in Sandbox. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 08:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Would the "bottom section" be the one with the maps? Or is other content affected as well? -- ◄mendel► 09:17, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This is just a general exploration of whether the idea of splitting infobox in general is something possibly acceptable to look at, or completely crazy. With specific infoboxes, which counts as "bottom" should be dealt with on a case by case basis, though generally I'd argue the image and the first batch of text info should be top, with the other stuff ok to go to bottom.  So for the location box2 currently being experimented with on Vabbi-related articles, that means Neighbors and Services and Map might go to the bottom, while Part of is on the top. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:23, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That sucks badly. Neighbors needs to be where I look first because that's what I sometimes use to navigate to a place whose name I don't remember. Keeping unneeded info out of the box would also be a good option: services duplicates the list of NPCs that we hgave on the article anyway, and I thought the purpose of SMW was that we could just tag teh NPCs where the article mentions them and SMW would then know wbout them. If I see "collector" in the services list and it links not to the collector's page but to a definition, this is worse than having to go to the NPC list in the first place. -- ◄mendel► 10:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "the purpose of SMW was that we could just tag teh NPCs where the article mentions them and SMW would then know wbout them" <- completely true and I wasn't thinking straight when I did that. On the other hand, having a quick summary of the services offered at a location without scrolling down to find the list of NPCs than go through the tags after the name, IMO, has its value.  Different people utilizes the page differently. You find the "neighbors"  info useful to be prominent in the infobox despite it being redundant information in the article, whereas I see a similar value in having the redundant information of service offered in the infobox (though I personally don't care if it gets cut into the "bottom").  Besides, you are missing the main point.  The main point is whether presentationally it is ok to cut the infobox into two pieces when there's a box ad (if there isn't a box ad the two pieces would join together).  Which stuff going into the cutted part is not a concern at this point and IMO distracts from the core topic.  That is a topic to be discussed infobox-by-infobox if the overall community decides the split-infobox style is an acceptable presentational layout to be adopted on a case-by-case basis (there may be infoboxes where nothing would be appropriate to be splitted off, even if "infobox-splitting" itself is overall an ok thing to do). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:34, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Presentationally I see no problem with that if the information split off is sufficiently distinct, like maps. I would not want to split the tabular info. -- ◄mendel► 11:00, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I also think that small QR type things (like neighbors and services) should stay in the top, but maps and secondary images can go in the bottom. Either way, the ginormous square ad is still fugly, I wanna slap the person that came up with it...  Many many times.  What happened to simple banners?  The new hotmail has a vertical banner on the right side instead of on top, but it's still the size of a banner, not f*ing half the window.  I would almost say to push down the whole article and keep it together, or even move the infobox to the left and have the article below it for unregistered users...  Also, the Alternate part of the current sandbox is really f*ed up if you have a wide window.  Would a "clear" template fix that?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't there some code thrown around that would cause a banner ad instead of a corner ad? Would that be better? --JonTheMon 16:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Hells yeah I says. All ads are obstructive and annoying, but banner ads don't interfere with the layout of the page the way those square ones do. RoseOfKali 18:34, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Banners don't mess with layout, but they push everything down. Square ads provide more revenue than banner ads, and I for one would rather Wikia make more revenue on square ads than having to place more ads to compensate. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I would still rather have to scroll down 2 clicks than have to figure out what's an ad and what's an infobox. But when revenue comes into play, then there's nothing that can be done, really, it's gonna look ugly no matter what.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:10, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Location types
We've been trying to settle on a standard way to call some location types (see Location for a suggestion) over at GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Missions, of all pages. I'd call it a wall of text if sea of text wasn't actually more apt (41 kB = 21 printed pages right now), so I suggest reading down from the "Poll" heading and maybe reading backwards from that as far as you can bear to get up to speed. Whatever we settle on is what we're going to use on all articles here on the wiki. -- ◄mendel► 11:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC)