User talk:Birchwooda Treehug

Regarding this picture you uploaded for the Shadow of fear (monster) artlice, your picture showed a herald of nightmares instead so I've reverted the picture back. I admit that it's an easy mistake to make with these ugly buggers. --Ckal Ktak 15:07, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Aren't the Nightmares Mesmer creatures? Pity and I thought I got a good pic of one of the MM with minions. --Birchwooda Treehug 17:27, 8 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Heralds of Nightmares are indeed the mesmer creatures. They looks like modified Ntouka Birds. --Ckal Ktak 02:34, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Dye Charts
Just wanted to say your dye charts for the different weapon pages are awesome (and helpful). Keep up the good work :) &mdash;Vendetta411 01:38, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you. Good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks it's nice ;) The reason why I started it was that I was looking for something like that (even armor has it) but only few pictures were here, well I guess it was expensive before the dye preview window. ^^ --Birchwooda Treehug 11:57, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed, they rock :).--Diddy Bow 18:25, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

Grammar
It's = it is. If you don't mean "it is", it's just "its" with no apostrophe. e.g., "its color is brown".--Carmine 02:41, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you for the hint. --Birchwooda Treehug 11:55, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

Poke...
Are you still alive? D: Jennalee 15:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Aye, had a GW down... happens every now and then ^^ Couldn't be arsed to play ;) --Birchwooda Treehug 23:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

A list for all skills...
Difficult, try Index_of_skill_lists, you can find them by profession. RT | Talk 07:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Great overview site, thank you. --Birchwooda Treehug 15:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Rise of the White Mantle
The map you posted for the Rise of the White Mantle mission is awesome! I think it is the most well annotated map I have ever seen here. Thanks! Darthnice 04:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Anime
I believe the plural of anime is still anime :P. So, what have you seen? Jennalee 01:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the correction. Back to anime, won't list all anime I've watched (jeez it's hard not to write animes XD), but may faves are: Beyond the Clouds (m), Voices of a distant Star (o), Full Metal Panic Fumoffu (s), Mononoke (m), Ayashi no Ceres (s), Tokyo Godfathers (m), Fullmetal Alchemist (s, reading the manga too), Planetes (s), Trigun (s), Rurouni Kenshin - Trust & Betrayal (o), Le Portrait de Petite Cossette (o), Trava - Fist Planet (o), The Girl Who Leapt Through Time (m), Paradise Kiss (s), Cowboy Bebop (s), Slayers (s, 1st season was the funniest), Neon Genesis Evangelion (s), Gundam Wing (s), Kare Kano (s), Kigeki (o), Whisper of the Heart (m), Honey & Clover 2 (s), Inuyasha (s, continuing with the manga), Ranma (s, not finished yet), One Piece (s), Death Note (s, not finished yet)... there are a lot more I like but that now were my faves ^^ And yours? key: m = movie, s = series, o = ova --Birchwooda Treehug 11:05, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Heehee, I see you like Shinkai Makoto's works :P As for what I've seen, a lot - a lot of the usual mainstream and various things such as Bakumatsu Kikansetsu Irohanihoheto, Claymore, Ergo Proxy, Fruits Basket, Haibane Renmei, Kare Kano, Mushishi, NHK ni Youkoso!, Nodame Cantabile, Ouran High School, Planetes, Rurouni Kenshin - Trust & Betrayal <33, Seirei no Moribito, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (EPIC!), Tenkuu no Escaflowne, Utawarerumono, Zero no Tsukaima etc. some obviously enjoyed a lot more than others. I might just "borrow" that userbox :3 Jennalee 13:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fruits Basket is cute too, aww the manga was sooo sweet (and the scanlations so bad *yuck*). First time I watched the anime I didn't like it because Tohru was so annoying XD Her naivety and everything - argh. But since the rest was pretty entertaining I watched it again after a while and laughed my arse off XD How Momo was singing in the hot spring - cuuute ^^ Mushishi is one anime I learnt to like aswell, first I thought it's boring because every ep had each own story. But at the end I was really sad that there were no more eps :'( I hope for a 2nd season. Claymore was kinda standard stuff. Only thing that impressed me were the eyes, well and Claire in general (and Tessa). There's one anime that most people like and I got it recommended by a good anime-loving friend who actually has a good taste, but I personally dislike it very much... that is Elfen Lied ^^ Really been a while since I watched something so stupid and a total failure in target audience. Ah well, I won't get started now XD Some day I'll watch it again and maybe my opinion changes. Ghibli has lot of good stuff too (but also some lame stuff, like their recent movie Ged Senki), like Porco Rosso, think it's uncommon too. Chihiro and Grave of the Fireflies are good too. Makoto's last movieproject (5cm) was great too (as usual) but after Hoshi no Koe and Beyond the Clouds it was nothing new and I didn't even like the ending much :( But his landscapes and backgrounds are always so amazing and the emotions and moods the films give off... sugoi, I'm often stunned. Trava is something off the mainstream too. Only few people know it. I like funny stuff, because that's most entertaining. Stuff like Death Note is an exception there. I read the manga before and when I heard that it's being animated I stopped reading it (I prefer anime) and the anime is great too (so far) ^^ Well, now I got totally lost in the anime topic and wrote too much XD Merry Christmas and stuff --Birchwooda Treehug 15:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Death note series finished a while ago. I watched the live action movie too. I won't spoil it for you :) (no, I dont know Japanese. When watching the movie I just made my own lines)--[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 13:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * now@Jenalee: I finished Ouran High school series also, its a great series, I watched some of the tengen anime too, ur right, its fucking epic.--[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 13:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, have all eps, just didn't continue watching XD At home I found old vhs tapes with X-Files eps on them and they got me hooked again -.- I'm dl'ing the X-Files seasons now (while I'm also still busy watching Buffy). Somehow I suddenly had the urge to watch old tv series :x Is the DN movie good? Dl'ed two of them but didn't start watching them, need to finish the anime before. But talking about live action stuff, am watching the Kimi wa Pet drama and somehow it's not so sweet in real than in the manga. Heard the Hana Kimi story has made it to a tv drama too, anyone watched that? Merry Christmas to you too.--Birchwooda Treehug 15:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya the live action movie is pretty cool, Just that i dun know japanese. --[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 15:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Heehee, sorry for replying so late... I don't usually read manga, probably out of sheer laziness but sometimes you just have to - like with Kenshin when they never animated the revenge arc. Needless to say, I stayed up until 5 am finishing that xD. I do find the manga storylines to be more sensible and better than the anime ones when they have been adapted - usually they aren't totally faithful to them. As for the anime you discussed, Fruits Basket I didn't particularly like - it just didn't catch on for me I guess. I'm reaaally hoping for a second season of Mushishi too >.< or maybe I just have to start reading, heehee... Claymore was alright I guess - watchable and fast paced. I especially enjoyed Theresa's story. It, however, had plenty of things I disliked, I guess (*cough* Raki *cough* - if there's a more annoying kid than Shinji, this guy in the anime certainly makes the grade.) such as RAKI NOT DYING at any stage along the way and the circumstances behind The Organisation not being explained such as who controls them, why the Claymores don't all just boycott them given their lives are treated as disposable, where the demons came from and how it will end etc. A second season could probably explain all this but no, no second season planned -_-.


 * Ghibli's older works such as Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke and Grave of the Fireflies I enjoyed but I not so much their newer works (Chihiro, Howls Moving Castle). I have Porco Rosso but I haven't watched that yet so I guess i should get to it. Ged Senki was one I was especially looking foward to when I heard it was going to be screened - I had read the books it was to be based on and thoroughly enjoyed them (except for the third). I was looking foward to a Ghibli adaption of the story. Then I read the reviews about how they butchered it and that killed any desire to get the film.


 * Makoto's works always seem to have the same basic storyline and yea, after watching both Beyond the Clouds and Voices of a Distant Star, it gets old. Very quickly. It is true though his works are very beautiful but I wished he'd do them with a different story :(


 * I have no idea what Trava is but I suppose I should look it up heehee :) Death Note I stopped watching at ep 7 - I should really finish it since if I don't, I'd have it all spoiled pretty much. I heard though it starts out superb then when that girl gets introduced, the story starts going downhill :(..


 * X-files gives me the creeps xD. I remember when I was young and we used to live in a different suburb, another kid, my neighbour used to come over and we'd play, or I'd go over to their house. One time, we were watching it and we screamed out heads off every time this yellow-eyes guy came onto the screen heehee xD.. We didn't really try watching anymore after that lol. Eventually though, they moved away so that was the end of that :(


 * @Feardrake: heehee Gurren is truly epic! Did you see the Welsh Flag redesign contest run by that newspaper (can't remember which, some newspaper in the UK) by any chance? Most popular flag as voted by the users was the Union Jack with the Gurren Brigade symbol superimposed. They called that winning design a "stylised dragon" xDxD. Also, if you're going to watch Nodame check out the live action too (rofls@Masumi-chan).


 * ...and yea, a very late happy new year :d Jennalee 13:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya I havent watched in a while :( . --[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 16:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just watched the rest of Dennou Coil marathon style last night and slept through the stinkin' hot day xD whee - somewhat similar in theme to Haibane Renmei if you've watched that but a much different (and IMO, very original take on virtual reality) setting. I think it's an original work, anime only but I'm not sure, might have to search ^_^ Jennalee 10:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

White Moa
How did you make the white moa picture have no background. I know its a dumb question but I want to know :) Kunpapa 16:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Rendered I think RT | Talk  16:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Or photosouped the background off. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 17:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing did I do to it. It's a tamed White Moa in the building with the Zaishen Chest in it, on the Nameless Isle. It's so dark in it, it's perfect for taking pictures with almost black background. --Birchwooda Treehug 18:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

wow, now that you say that I can see the background. Kunpapa 03:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

unattributed image
Image copyright problem Thank you for uploading your images. GuildWiki takes copyright very seriously, and the images you have supplied may be missing information on its copyright status. The images will be deleted after 7 days, unless the copyright status is determined for the license and the source of the images. Please review Image use policy and add a copyright tag to their image description page.

Please browse through your images and correctly tag them. Further details can be found at Image license guide.

Your uploaded image history can be found here.

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20:25, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You mayn't know where that image came from, other than being a screenshot, but the tag is for Guild Wars screen caps, so you can't use that one :s Jam[[Image:Jamster Sig.gif|19px]]ster 16:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It would probably fall under the category of fair use. Check Image license guide for the template and instructions. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 17:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah thanks. I edited two of my pictures. Have a problem with a third: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:Anime_eye.png - the original (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Anime_eye.svg) has CC-BY-SA as license type and I don't know how to add it here. --Birchwooda Treehug 19:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem Thank you for uploading your images. GuildWiki takes copyright very seriously, and the images you have supplied may be missing information on its copyright status. The images will be deleted after 7 days, unless the copyright status is determined for the license and the source of the images. Please review Image use policy and add a copyright tag to their image description page.

Please browse through your images and correctly tag them. Further details can be found at Image license guide.

Your uploaded image history can be found here.

Thank you for your cooperation. -- Gwiki Community

RT | Talk  14:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not being of any help, are ya? Just read the sentence right above your post >.> --Birchwooda Treehug 15:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Me done fixed it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. --Birchwooda Treehug 02:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Image enhancement
I've seen your work and I'd like to offer a suggestion - not enhancing your images so much or not at all. The problem with this is the more you enhance them, the more they get away from what they typically look like ingame, and how they started when the screenshot was first taken. The aim of this wiki is to try and document as accurately as possible things ingame, and images that are greatly enhanced don't accurately represent how things look ingame. If you're going to touch things up, could you at least tone it done a little? Jennalee 00:19, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Shades and Neutral.jpg|800px]]
 * Thing is in GW are only very few places with neutral light and the Nameless Isle does not belong to them. It adds a dirty yellow shade over the whole picture incl. the item in question. That means many items don't look correct already to begin with. Additional: many items were taken with the light source behind them, which means their shadow side, that adds to the dullness. So removing disturbing shades is not a question. The question should be if that place really has to be the main place to take those pics. If you see the comparison of pics taken on the isle and on a place with neutral lightning, you see even enhanced they still show a little fake shade that wouldn't be there in neutral light. Beside the yellow shade on the isle there are other places with blue shade, purple/pink shade, black shade, no shade (those should be the places to take pics) etc. So the yellow shade itself is not really the typical neutral look. --Birchwooda Treehug 13:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hm, you have a point about the light and how it can't truly be removed. It'd be helpful to have a list of all the places with more neutral lightning. Jennalee 03:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You all have a valid point, but to be honest, the differences are so minor that it would be pretty hard to find a player that would give a damn about the teeny bit of yellow shade or some other. The Isle pics look 99.999% accurate to what the item will look in most places, and then again, not many people wear things in neutral lighting, so I don't see why anyone should climb out of their skin to find the one perfect neutral place.  All of the above images are fine, so I think you should do whatever is easiest or pleases you most, and not argue about what's more "neutral."  Get as close as you easily can, and you're fine, just don't take any images at The Mouth of Torment. :P  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well the above pics aren't even taken at the usual spot on the nameless isle (see the annoying buildings in the background). The usual spot even has the light source behind the item which makes it even worse (beside the yellow shade there comes the dullness from the shadowside of most items, only few have unnatural lighting like the Dryad Bow). I just chose it because it shows the item in the light which makes it look better (and I was too lazy to run across the isle to the other spot with better lighting [where the axe enemy is]). The perfect place would be Mineral Springs but no-one is so crazy to run out there. I just use the isle and remove the yellow shade and that's it :P I'm picky about pictures. Uploading one that obviously has a fake shade over the item, I can't do that... goes all against my training XD (desktop publishing) --Birchwooda Treehug 01:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Attuned Was Songkai
If you disagree with a revert, please state so on the article's talkpage. Otherwise you are in violation of GW:1RV. Just a heads up. -- 20:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to note, I reverted because I'm pretty sure adding that is against some S&F about skill pages. I also didn't realise you'd reverted somthing until I was about to click the save button, then thought "eh what the hell". And dont take it to the articles talkpage, take it to the reverters talkpage, to prevent spam. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 20:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Discussion on the content in dispute goes to article talk page instead of user talk page. In other words, you note that someone has broken the rule on their user talk page, and the discussion about whether the info should be in the article on the article's talk page. Yet another heads-up. --[[Image:OrgXSignature.jpg]] 20:09, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I call it usability. I was doing the elite skill title and found it really annoying that there's no link to other elite skill locations even when such pages exist. Found it by coincidence when I was doing the last class (ritu). What a shame.--Birchwooda Treehug 01:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion from Necrotic Armor page
Does anyone have this armor on a female necro recently dyed black? If so I'd like to see a screenshot of the chestpart in close up. My necro had it dyed black when there was only Prophecies out. Some time later the whole dye thingy got changed and I think there was a reset to the items that didn't remove the added color. That's why, even if my armor is dyed black, in the hall of monuments it is red (which was the original color when I bought it). Due to curiosity how this armor looks now in black I checked the preview window and it looks awful. Many nice details get lost. Now I don't know if it's because it was dyed black and now black would be applied again (I also don't get the msg that I can't apply a dye that was applied already) or if the current dye system ruins the armors (have the same prob with my black dyed wyvern armor for female warrior - also kills details when re-applied). So here a link to the image of the dye preview (left black dyed preview, right no dye added [old black]) ---> <--- --Birchwooda Treehug 03:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm fairly sure the armour in your Hall is dependent on the colour of the chestpiece you are wearing when you go into your hall, not the colour of the armour when it is placed into the hall. I'd assume it displays as red because the armour you are wearing is red. Can't help with necrotic though, sorry. Ezekiel  [Talk]  03:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What you see in the dye preview is what you will get. The new black is much more invsive, it is a rich black that overwhelms all the small details that the old dyes were so good at showing.  All new dyes are like this, but the black shows it the most.  Unfortunately, what you see is what you get. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah ok. then I won't dye it again just to test if it fixes my hall bug. So I've an unique armor now that can't be copied like this anymore ;D BTW in my hall both my elite armors are red no matter what I wear (I've only a black and a brown armor). And my other elite armor, the luxon elite, I just bought couple of months ago -.- see: ---> <--- --Birchwooda Treehug 05:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that's odd. I've got old-black Geomancer but it and the other armour change when I wear different things. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  07:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The color of the displays depends on the color of the chest piece you wear into the hall. If you wear something that was dyed with an "old" dye, then the statues "don't recognize" it, and display a default red. If you wear something dyed with a "new" dye, they should change. So if your brown was before the dye colors changed, then it will still make the statues red. If you redye it the new brown (cheap :P), then the statues should all become brown when you walk in. RoseOfKali 15:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I noticed that and that's what I think is buggy. The luxon elite armor is my newest, it's even newer than EotN so I would assume that at least the luxon armor statue in the hall would switch to brown but it doesn't. It wasn't even red when I bought it, I think its default color was grey. My old necrotic armor seems to override all colorsettings with its red. BTW it's not simply a brown dye added (brown causes a quite bright brown-red and I didn't want anything standing out as color) ;) To get that brown shade you need to mix 3 dyes ^^. And because the luxon armor has an ugly bug too (see bottom of its talk page) I couldn't dye it black (the bug is to see clearly then). --Birchwooda Treehug 16:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I posted the dye glitch image in the female gallery exactly 1 year ago... You just didn't see it. You have to go into the Female gallery, not just the main armor page.  And it seems strange that you walk in with a newly-dyed armor and the statues don't change to that color.  But I think you're a little confused about it, still, judging from the last comment.  It doesn't matter what statues you are looking at that will change color, they either ALL change, or none.  The only thing that affects the statue colors is what you wear, you MUST wear a newly-dyed chest piece to change the statue colors.  If you wear the old black chest piece, all the statues will be red, if you wear something that was dyed with the NEW colors, they should ALL change to that color.  If this is not true for you, then you really have a weird bug, and I've never heard of that happen before.  If you want to see a demo of all the armors with different new colors, pm me in game "Rose Of Kali" and I will show you, I have all the Necromancer armors in the Hall.  But I don't have anything dyed with the old dye, only new.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is your ugly bug, check the upload date and what links there. ;) [[Image:Luxon_15k_F_Necro_Dye_Glitch.jpg|50px]] RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah isn't it ugly? -.- And as you can see from my above picture I am wearing my newer brown dyed luxon armor but the statues remain red. I know how it should look like, since a guild friend showed it me some months ago when I told him about my bugged hall. So I'm not confused :P However, the luxon armor wasn't red when I bought it and I never had red armor but it is red in my hall. I know it was once red by default before the color upgrade that made all armor and weapons grey by default. But as said already I bought this one much much MUCH later. I recorded a video: (5.4 MB DivX) here --Birchwooda Treehug 19:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, one thing from the video: you walked in wearing your old black. THAT is why the statues were red. When you equipped the brown luxon, you need to REARRANGE the display in order to update the statues, OR walk out and walk back in WEARING the brown luxon. When you just switch what you're wearing inside the hall, it does nothing. Also, if you don't mind, I will move this talk to your talk page, it does not belong on necrotic armor talk. RoseOfKali 20:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hms you're right. Mystery solved. My fault. Sorry. But now it's my talk page that gets spammed, so it doesn't matter ;). Guess my guild friend rearranged his statues every time and I didn't pay that much attention and only saw the color switching. --Birchwooda Treehug 01:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! Mystery solved! :P And yeah, it's time to archive my talk, too.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Dye Charts
Thank you for commenting on my page with such a beautiful message. Hmm, where to start:

I feel all my tedious work (119 dye charts since 07/2007) done for nothing when my charts not only get replaced by uglier pictures but even deleted from the wiki -Wow, you've done 119 dye charts since 2007. Why do you need to bring that up? You think you are bigger and better than me because you've contributed more and because you've been on the Wiki longer? Kudos to you!

-Uglier? Matter of opinion. Deleted? Because there's no need to keep them around when they are replaced.

For god's sake use a sharpen filter, looks all blurry and the font is disturbing large too. -Why should I sharpen the pictures when it's meant to be a portrayal of how they look in game?

-Blurry too? Did you look at your older ones? (heres the link to your old Tall Shield one, seeing as you want to use that as an example Image:Tall Shield colored.jpg) Notice the fuzziness around the edges of the shield and around the writing?

-Font too large? I use a large font size so people can see the colour from the thumbnail. Not everyone can read size ~10 font in a thumbnail and maybe even at 100%.

Having 2 pictures showing the same color is useless too -They aren't the same colour. Once is default and one is dyed the other colour. If you havnt noticed (in your "119 dye charts since 07/2007") the default colour cannot always be replicated with dyes (if they can at all). Including the default colour allows people to see exactly how the dye affects the item (example Image:Earth Wand dye chart.jpg). How about you adding your own colours too? Your Tall Shield now has pink, why not just add all the colours on the colour spectrum?

As for other matters your original Tall Shield (noticed how you made a new chart to include gray dye, cute) was in need of replacing. Why? It was blurry, did not contain all colours (gray), armor was showing (Stormforged) and the name didn't really explain a lot (something else you changed with your new upload). Another example is the Long Sword, no one wants to see Templar gloves smothered over the picture.

Anyway go ahead and replace them, that way you can go around telling other people how many charts you've done (or should I say _colored) and make yourself feel bigger. Khazad Guard 17:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, also forgot to put it, but I'm sure you've seen it (in your "119 dye charts since 07/2007" and other edits) that Please Note: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. as seen on the edit page, and upload image page. Have a nice day. Khazad Guard 17:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)