Talk:Skill quests

I'm trying to convert my skill reward quest list to Wiki format. Help appreciated. --Tetris L 18:11, 16 Jul 2005 (EST)
 * An interesting premise, to be sure, but perhaps it would be better off as a category rather than a list? I'm somewhat concerned that such a page would become overly long and complicated... Also, manual conversion is stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I'll see about getting a perl script whipped up to convert the (somewhat overly heavy, Heard of CSS?) HTML into wikiformat. --Talrath Stormcrush 18:55, 16 Jul 2005 (EST)
 * I agree. Just the fact that each row in the table has 5 cells out of 6 empty means that this probably should not be a table. I would suggest grouping them into a sub category of Quests called "Skill Acquisition Quest" or "Skill quests" and then within that create six sub groups for the six professions. It would be a different way of browsing the same content. I like the skill trainers list below it though. That's a tight looking table that could be added as a link in the Skill trainers category. --Karlos 20:05, 16 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Don't worry about manual conversion. I got the table as an MS Excel Spreadsheet. I'll convert it to Wiki format with some Excel script. I'll do it tonight and put it online in the current format. If it's too large for 1 page we can split it into 5 pages for the 5 professions later. In Excel this is all very quick and easy. --Tetris L 22:25, 16 Jul 2005 (EST)

Okay, I have converted the format, but I'm not happy with the result myself. This is work in progress. I agree the table is too large. I will split it and create one page for each profession. Will do this tomorrow or on Monday. --Tetris L 04:52, 17 Jul 2005 (EST)

I'm surprised I haven't seen this page before! The syntax is obviously wrong. Just for the record, I dont think you need to create a seperate  inside a table cell to color the background; you can just color the background of the cell itself. But that's not really important. I don't know if this information suits table format at all, whether it's on seperate pages for each profession or location or whatever. If it is split into pages based on profession then I vote it be shown in the form of a list. This might be what Tetris was already considering, but I just want to make it clear. 22:03, 17 Jul 2005 (EST)

Tetris, consider this: We have a "Skill Trainer" listing of all trainers in which the skills provided by each trainer are listed. We also have a "Skill" listing (sorted by profession) in which you can click on a skill to find out where to acquire it. Don't you think that between those two, that this table is well represented? I think we should focus more on making sure those two ways work. i.e. That all the skills of a trainer are listed for him/her and that all the ways of acquiring a skill are listed in that skill. These two ways are (I think) the two ways the user thinks when coming to this site, either: "Where do I get this skill?" or "What does the trainer in that outpost have to offer me?" --Karlos 04:42, 18 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Agreed. &mdash;Tanaric 17:12, 19 Jul 2005 (EST)

Great job convertin that table.

I find this table extremely easy to read and I'm not sure splitting it to seperate pages will be a good thing. Just thought I'd add my $.02. --Aladrin 03:03, 12 Sep 2005 (EST)

Color Scheme
I appreciate who ever is trying to color this, I just think the current colors are messy and confusing! --Karlos 08:44, 11 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Maybe if only the cells with skills in them were colored? --Fyren 09:14, 11 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I did that (while not logged in) for the post-Searing section. I'll do the rest if it looks better than it was before (and better than the current coloring).  --Fyren 11:09, 15 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * No, no, no.. :) It's not just the colors, it's the redundancy of white space.. I'll mess around with this page tonight to try and show you what I mean. Words have failed me! :) --Karlos 15:08, 15 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I did the coloring (Sept 10) to get it back to the state of Tetris's original webpage. Personally, I prefer the way it was for the profession-specific quest-givers because it made it very easy to come back and find the NPCs you needed to visit after changing your secondary profession.  The way it is now, the empty space seems much more 'obvious' than with the entire row hilighted. --Tometheus 20:16, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Credits
I'm lovin' this article, but the precedent here at GuildWiki is that we never list credits on articles. The theory goes that, since multiple people have worked on this since the original contributions, it's not fair to list only the original contributers. Besides, anyone wanting to know the credits to an article can check the revision history. I won't remove the credits myself, but it'd be mighty grand of those mentioned in the credits to remove themselves. &mdash;Tanaric 10:56, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * This has a history. I created this wiki page as an exact copy of the page that I had on my website. When I moved it here, I gave up all "copyrights" (I never claimed any anyway). But: I used Cymmina's page as a source of information for my page, and even though I noted credits on my page I got a pretty angry email from her when I informed her about it. That's why I noted credits for her even more prominent on my website. Long story short: I wouldn't mind at all to see my credits removed, but I'd rather not remove her credits. I wouldn't see a problem if we move it to the bottom on the table though. I'll do that. --Tetris L 18:14, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * As I've said before in regards to information from other websites: nobody has any legal standing when it comes to information pulled from the game, besides ArenaNet, of course. This information is on the GuildWiki now, and it has been strained through several editors (most notably you, but others as well).  Any "original source" credits are moot, as we've all contributed to this.  Besides, it's a fairly good bet that, among all contributers to GuildWiki, we've all done all these quests many times over.  *shrugs* Maybe I'm being an asshole, but I've no patience for people who demand credit for work that anybody can do.  If somebody is going to provide a service like this, they aught to do it because they want to, not because they want to see their name on it.  This table isn't like something on GameFAQs, where analysis and original thought is involved; this is simple data mining, and no credit makes sense for that. &mdash;Tanaric 04:50, 6 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * I agree. If she's not happy about her data being used, then let's remove her data and fill it up our selves. We can fill in the data from the Quests page which was not filled based on your page. --Karlos 16:07, 6 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * No need to do that yet again. While I updated the acquisition section of all non-elite skills I also checked the skill quest table (once more) against the quest list and the details of each individual quest to verify that all the info is complete and consistent. I even found and corrected some minor errors. Hmmmm, okay, so let's get rid of the credits. Cymmina hasn't updated her GW site for ages. And she didn't even reply to a second email that I sent her. So ... screw her. ;) --Tetris L 17:09, 6 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * You do realize that there is no posible way for you to retract that statement. :) --Karlos 18:00, 6 Oct 2005 (EST)

Skill Quests In Factions
Shing Jea Monastary (Canthan characters only) Senji (secondary proffession change) Ranger - power shot, charm animal, savage shot, read the wind, comfort animal, troll ungent
 * Intro quest - Res Signet at quest completion + 2 primary proffession skills midway through the quest (Pain and Weapon of Warding for ritualists).
 * Headmaster Lee quest - Unsuspecting Strike, Shadow Refuge, Dancing Daggers
 * Headmaster Vhang quest - Aura of Restoration, Flare, Lightning Orb
 * Headmaster Kaa quest - Conjure Phantasm, Ether Feast, Empathy
 * Headmaster Amara quest - Healing Breeze, Orison of Healing, Bane Signet
 * Headmaster Zhan quest - Healing Signet, Power Attack, Sever Artery
 * Headmaster Kuju quest - Life Siphon, Deathly Swarm, Vampiric Gaze
 * Headmaster Greico quest - Power Shot, Charm Animal, Troll Ungent
 * Headmaster Quen quest -
 * Jinzo quest - Fox Fangs, Death's Charge
 * Ronsu quest - Armor of Earth, Ice Spikes
 * Mei Ling quest - Backfire, Shatter Enchantment
 * Sister Tai quest - Healing Touch, Reversal of Fortune
 * Reng Ku quest - Animate Bone Fiend, Faintheartedness
 * Proffessor Gai quest -
 * Sujun quest - Comfort Animal, Whilring Defense
 * Talon Silverwing quest - Cyclone Axe, Watch Yourself
 * Track Down - *something* the Ephemeral -
 * Track Down Panaku - Shroud of Distress, Twisting Fangs
 * Track Down Lo Sha - Shatter Enchantment, Energy Tap
 * Track Down Su - Soul Feast, Barbed Signet
 * Track Down Kai Ying - Fire Storm, Stone Daggers
 * Track Down Brother Pe Wan - Resurrect, Retribution
 * Track Down Weng Cha - Mighty Blow, Frenzy
 * Track Down Zho - Read the Wind, Flame Trap
 * Advanced Defense Techniques - Shadowsong, Blinding Powder
 * Condition Removal - Resilient Weapon, Plague Touch
 * Skill Chaining - Critical Eye, Way of Perfection, Channeled Strike, Cruel Was Daoshen, Animate Bone Minion, Death Nova
 * Disenchantment Course - Expunge Enchantments, Strip Enchantment
 * Disruption - Dissonance
 * Snaring Course - Caltrops
 * Mesmer - empathy, backfire, conjure phantasm, ether feast, drain enchantment, energy tap
 * Elementalist - gale, armor of earth, ward against melee, fire storm, ice spikes, lightning orb
 * Monk - healing breeze, orison of healing, bane signet, remove hex, reversal of fortune, resurrect
 * Warrior - cyclone axe, frenzy, sprint, mighty blow, sever artery, healing signet
 * Assassin - twisting fangs, fox fangs, unsuspecting strike, shadow refuge, dash, death's charge
 * Ritualist - generous was tsungrai, channeled strike, union, pain, brutal weapon, weapon of warding


 * Okay, here's some of the skill quests for anyone who wants to add them to the page. I don't remember which Ritualist trainer gives which skills, I did all those quests last night. Between the three of them, they teach Painful Bond, Spirit Rift, Brutal Weapon, Union, Generous Was Tsungrai and Vengeful Weapon. -- Gordon Ecker 10:54, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Instructor Ng also gives many skills on accepting any of his quests.--Draygo Korvan 10:58, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Added the Instructer Ng skills for Ritualists and Assassins. -- Gordon Ecker 14:30, 28 April 2006 (CDT)

Are there no skill quests besides the ones above? --68.142.14.31 18:15, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Doesn't look like it. Many of the quests give skill points and gold, so I guess anet decided it was best to allow players to decide what to purchase, instead of giving them skills they may or may not want. And it avoids the whole "I purchased X skill, and now can get it for free as a quest reward" problem. LordKestrel 18:26, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Found more skills. Just like in Factions, you get skills when you change your secondary. The Senji's Corner skill list is missing Necromancer skills and the Shing Jea Monastery quests are missing some skills for primaries other than Ritualist and secondaries other than Assassin. -- Gordon Ecker 18:02, 30 April 2006 (CDT)

Chapter 1 Path Quests
You get skills the first time you change to each secondary in the Crystal Desert. I don't remember which skills you get, but I remember that when my elementalist switched back to her original secondary (mesmer), I unlocked a new skill. I'd suggest that someone test this out by doing the Crystal Desert secondary proffession change quests and then changing to each secondary for the first time with an empty skillbar. I can do it with one of my Canthan characters once I've completed the Factions campaign, but that could take a while, so if anyone's got a character that's doing the Crystal Desert. -- Gordon Ecker 23:39, 6 May 2006 (CDT)

Quest Availability
Can anyone confirm that Canthan characters have access to all of the skill quests from Lion's Arch onward and none of the skill quests before Lion's Arch? -- Gordon Ecker 23:39, 6 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I have read here that Canthan characters have access to the quests from then onward but only receive experience/gold as rewards: not skills. I'm not in a position to verify this at the moment, but it would probably be a good thing to add a note for in the article if it is the case. — egads talk 16:15, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
 * People have probably worked this out by now (Edit: it's in the main article now, even!), but most skill quests from Lion's Arch onwards are available to Canthan characters. — egads talk 23:06, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

Split by Campaign and New Format for Factions
I have two requests:
 * 1) I think we should split this article by campaigns. It is far too much scrolling. ;)
 * 2) I have created an article Skill Quests (Factions), using a new table format which I think is easier to read. The icons are only eye-candy, but I like them. Also, the new table is using "modules", which I also use in various other places, to avoid redundancy. To allow for easy editing of each module there is an edit link in each row. Please let me know what you think about the new format, and vote whether we should continue to use this, or keep the old format of Skill Quests.
 * --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif]]  16:13, 8 May 2006 (CDT)
 * To be honest, I much prefer the current way. Very easy to find what you want (even if you do need to scroll down a bit, which by the way, when did that become a bad thing?).  Whereas the new version with the tiny little icons and multiple data sets in each column (trainer/quest/skills) makes it harder to find what you really want, which is the skill.  --Rainith 16:22, 8 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Just three things before I go to bed:
 * The quest giver lines could be removed from the table, as they are not necessary here.
 * The quest name lines could be made bold, so it is clear which lines are quest names, and which are skills.
 * Icons are a matter of taste. Personally I prefer the version with icons, but I think with a little bit of aditional coding it should be possible to create a version of the table without icons, but using the same modules, this means without any redundancy. --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif]]  16:48, 8 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I made some changes to Skill Quests (Factions). Please have another look.
 * Unless anybody objects, I'll split the article tomorrow. I'll keep both versions for the Factions quest list for now. We can decide later which one we are going to continue. --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif]]  06:31, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually I do object. The one comment you've had here is an objection, so I would think that you should try to gather a little support for your way before you go and jump in on this.  --Rainith 11:17, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree with Rainith; the current version is easier to read and locate information. No need to split it out.  If wanted, a custom menu option could be added to the top to make it easier - the ToC is already there; but a two line option for Prophecies / Factions that take you to those sections may be easier for users. --161.88.255.140 11:39, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Easy, I clearly said "unless anybody objects", and two people objected, so I wont change a thing for now. :)
 * Even though the original table format of Skill Quests is my own design, I really dislike it meanwhile. I find it too "stretched out". Far too many cells of the table are empty. I find it not easy to read at all and I'm tired of scrolling. Hence I'd like to come up with a more compact design. Skill Quests (Factions) was an attempt to do that, and I really prefer that new design, because it is very clear, yet compact. Plus, it uses modules to avoid redundancy with other articles.
 * If the main issue is about splitting the article, then I'm willing to convert the whole page, including the Prophecies quest, to the new format.
 * If the main issue is about the use of icons in Skill Quests (Factions), we can always discuss that. The icons are eye candy only, and provide no additional information. If the majority of people prefers the simple text-only design, we'll dump the icons. Very simple. --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif]]  06:25, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Personally I prefer the way you had it on beyondunreal. (That was what brought me to guildwiki in the first place.)  Right now this page has 3 different formats, one for pre-searing (rows colored), one for post (cells colored), and one for factions (columns colored).  (This should be fixed and made uniform.)  The main issue I have with your new page with the icons is that when you get to the bottom of the page, if you don't know the icons, there's no way to know which column is for which profession without scrolling to the top and following a column down.  With the color-coded version, once you knew the color of your profession, it was easy to spot all of your profession's skill quests. --Tometheus 16:49, 11 May 2006 (CDT)