Talk:Roleplaying character creation

Most of the individual profession pages are looking pretty empty. Should some infor be moved from this page to those pages? LordBiro/Talk 23:07, 31 May 2005 (EST)

Fixed some things that were simply not true and would mislead players (such as rangers doing less damage when shooting uphill, or that every party requires at least one warrior). Frankly, these statements are just wrong, false, and untrue.


 * Sorry the shooting uphill was me. I know shooting downhill does more damage, so assumed opposite works too.  It just reads weird that shooting down doing more damage should be listed as a con (see history before my edit). -PanSola 21:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)\\

Secondary Profession
I cleaned this article up a little, it looks a bit better now I think. I added quite a few links too (ie put   around a few words :) )

Ok onto the discussion part, inspecting how this page originally looked, I think that Nunix was trying to write a 1,2,3...x step guide. He's started with ''1. Choose Primary Profession, 2. Choosing Appearance, 3. Choosing a Name'' but it looks a bit incomplete.

There's a very long comprehensive info, pros and cons section for each character in regards to primary profession choice but nothing about secondary profession choise. Would it be better to simply say change it to ''1. Choose Professions, 2. Choosing Appearance, 3. Choosing a Name'' and add appropriate notes on each character if something is primary profession specific. E.g. if Strongest armor in the game. is a Pro for being a warrior, just adding after that: this only applies to primary warriors. The alternative is to have a section on choosing a secondary character which would be a big job. Any opinions one way or the other?

I think that this is an important and useful article, especially for new players so it'd be nice for it to be well written, but then again as someone who doesn't edit/create that many articles, any article I touch always seems very important to me!! --Xasxas256 07:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Considering you don't choose secondary profession during Roleplaying character creation, and at least half the point of Pre-Searing is to let new players get a feel of diff secondary professions (albeit not all that well done), I say don't include secondary prof stuff in this article. Either add it to a pre-searing guide, or use the Profession Combo articles to address this point (same secondary diff primary still work out very differently) -PanSola 07:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That's a good point that you don't choose your secondary profession (I'd kind of forgotten that!) in PvE. But in the Pre-Searing_guide there's nothing about choosing a secondary profession, no hints, suggestions anything. I think it's really just mentioned in the Profession_Trainer article "Profession Trainers (not to be confused with Skill Trainers!) are the NPCs that will introduce you to your primary and secondary profession in Pre-Searing." It doesn't really say much at all such as how to choose your secondary profession, what combinations work well, what different classes have to offer as a secondary profession.

Another point for more advanced players is that u can change your second profession after being ascended. U get a quest in Droknar (near the Xunlai agent) where u have some quests in the desert area to get a different second profession. U can go hunting for new skills again (or just buy them) and u can allways switch back again. --Bahamut 09:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think this article should say:
 * How to choose a secondary profession (either who you need to talk to or a link to the Profession_Trainer page.)
 * That you can 'test' a secondary class in Pre-Searing
 * A few things on what each class can offer as a secondary profession
 * Perhaps some combinations that work well or a link to Category:Profession_Combinations (although the quality of these articles is pretty variable)


 * If you look at the popular guides on other sites, they're often on what classes to choose and on forums on other sites, you'll frequently see threads where someone asks what classes work well or they want to know if this a good secondary profession if I want to be a .... I think that the Guildwiki should be able to service those who are new to the game. For example I created the Primary attribute article only about a month ago, one of the problems is that many (most?) of the contributors to the Guildwiki are seasoned/knowledgable players so we might miss out on some of the early stuff. I don't know, just a thought, but either way I definitely think that the Pre-Searing guide should have some comprehensive info on choosing a secondary class and I reckon it belongs here instead of a seperate article as you said PanSola, I should really just start writting some stuff up about choosing a secondary profession and one of you higher ups can move it if you think it deserves its own article. In the time it took for me to write this thing I could have half done it!!!!--Xasxas256 09:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the whole Profession consideration thing should be moved to a separate guide. THEN the primary and secondary stuff can belong to the same article.  "Roleplaying character creation" should stick to the actual character creation process, perhaps with links to other articles that can provide new players with information on what to make their characters.  The alternative seems to mirror the entire "choosing profession" section in PvP character creation also, which to me is absolutely absurd. -PanSola 10:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Bahamut there's plenty of info about changing your secondary profession on the Secondary_profession page, I don't know if it needs to be copied to here, this really only deals with creating a roleplaying character, it's probably enough to say that the secondary profession can be changed later.


 * PanSola I don't think the "choosing profession" section in PvP character creation is relevent either. Although it says virtually nothing about choosing a secondary profession in it anyway which is what I'm concerned with here. I think the Pre-Searing_guide should have a link to A Second Profession. Then on the A Second Profession page some info about choosing a secondary profession could be added. --Xasxas256 10:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

While I still think the Pro-Con stuff should be moved elsewhere, I no longer think they should be in a diff guide. I say we move the pro-con into individual Profession articles, with a section on Primary-specific pro/con, and then a general pro/con. The Profession articles also already have links to all profession combos, where additional details can be added. We'll then simply link from here to the profession index when advising what profession to pick. Ditto with PvP character creation. -PanSola 10:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think there's enough on each class to have a seperate page for each, and it's kind of nice to have it all in one article, instead of having to open 6 different windows (or tabs) in your browser, I'd still prefer to see an article which details information on choosing a primary profession and a seperate article which details info on choosing a secondary profession.


 * It probably depends a little bit on an individual's thinking, some people might want to read about the 6 classes then choose 2 of them (your idea works better for this) whereas others might want to first choose their primary class and then when they've decided on that, choose their secondary class (which suits my idea better). Hopefully some others will chime in instead of just us two, not that I haven't enjoyed this discussion so far, I think it's been good mannered and productive but Americans are probably waking up just now :) --Xasxas256 11:13, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Haha, I wrote this? I'm looking at the history since Xasxas mentioned it and.. man, I don't remember doing this at all. XD Knowing me (and I do, too well), you're right, this was probably set up just as a 1,2,3 guide for someone who just installed the game. We didn't have decent profession articles at the time, so this was just a Cliff's notes about each of the choices available. For the Pre-Searing Guide I actually still kind of like that, but more emphasis maybe placed somewhere to check out the individual profession articles? I guess the other option would be as said above: write a new "choosing a PVE profession" article. I'd be interested in seeing such an article, actually; maybe we'll just have both. --Nunix 13:43, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Xasxas, I'm not suggesting creating 6 new articles. I'm suggesting putting the pro/cons into the current existing profession articles.  The profession articles ARE supposed to educate people about each profession.  I wouldn't mind having a separate guide as a short summary for all 6 professions, but it shouldn't have info that's not already available in the profession articles (unless it's comparing two particular classes).  In any event, do we consent that the pro-con should be moved out of this article (though we haven't agreed on where it should end up)?


 * I don't like splitting the primary and secondary pro-con into diff articles, because 90% of the pro-con of using any profession as secondary are also valid pro-con for choosing it as primary profession, so the secondary pro-con would almost be a subset of the primary pro-con. -PanSola 21:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I realised halfway through writing my last reply that you meant adding to the 6 existing profession articles, I obviously didn't edit my reply to reflect this, sorry. I should have explcitly said adding a section to the existing 6 articles instead of whatever I said.


 * I don't know about 90% of pro-con stuff being applicable to both primary and secondary professions. Take the pros currently listed for a Warrior
 * Strongest armor in the game. (Not applicable for a secondary Wa)
 * Warriors are popular in parties. (Not relevent for a secondary Wa)
 * Armor crafting material is fairly easy to come by. (Not applicable for a secondary Wa)
 * Easy to play successfully. (Not relevent for a secondary Wa)
 * Great for beginners. (Not relevent for a secondary Wa)


 * Other things I'd say are Pros for being a Warrior
 * having runes for damage absoption (NA for a sec Wa)
 * having acess to instant use Sprint allows character to act as runner well. (It's tied to strength so it's not as useful to a sec Wa)


 * Look at the Cons for being a Warrior, all of them are totally dependant on what your primary profession is or not relevent for a secondary Wa
 * Very vulnerable to status effects. (Primary profession dependant)
 * Very common -- warriors are plentiful. (Not relevent for a secondary Wa)
 * Very little tactical diversity. (Primary profession dependant, probable not relevent)
 * Very equipment dependent; shields, axes, swords and hammers can all be used. (Primary profession dependant and depends on tactics used)
 * Not as high fashion as some of the other professions. (Not relevent for a secondary Wa)


 * I'm not going to go and do each class but I think you can see that I disagree that "90% of the pro-con of using any profession as secondary are also valid pro-con for choosing it as primary profession" :)


 * Oh and Nunix I was going to put something on your talk page but you discovered us talking about you anyway :D I kind of felt like I was doing some archeological work figuring out what your original idea was. The Nunix, which no longer survives here, is a very logical creature, performing tasks one after the other but in this case he was wiped out before being able to finish its ancient ritual. Or something like that!!!


 * I think I'll start writing up some points about what each class has to offer/drawbacks as a secondary, just a few things for each class, something to help get people going, make a more informed decision without recommending any combination over an another, there's no bad combo in Guild Wars or at least that's why all the game's devs say :) --Xasxas256 23:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok I've gone to work, and this is what I've come up with User:Xasxas256/Secondary Profession Guide I'd like this to be added to Secondary profession article. Then I'd like to see the Secondary profession article added to the Pre-Searing guide

So tell me if you think this is ok, if there's no objections I'll make those 2 changes. Please read through my Secondary Profession Guide and make some comments on the discussion page and feel free to change anything that needs fixing, better to change it now then when (well hopefully when) it's added to the Secondary profession article.--Xasxas256 09:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Like Nunix said, this was just to cover creation. From when you click "create roleplaying character" to before pre-Searing.  That's why the info is all about primaries.  The info you wrote on secondaries is fine, but I'm not sure how to best organize it.  It's not too hard to describe professions in respect to primaries and secondaries, in general, but information on the combinations is much more useful but much harder to write.  In my opinion, the articles we have on the combinations are pretty much useless.  --Fyren 15:47, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah some of the combination articles are good, others not so good. I don't know about others but I know that amongst my friends we all had a bit of a look at the characters, read a few articles/guides just before we bought the game and had another quick read of a few things just before we created our roleplaying characters. What would probably work well is to get the page we have for each character, have some info/stats, some pros/cons about having that class as a primary then a list of how each secondary combination could work.


 * But this would require a lot of work and really the aforementioned Category:Profession_Combinations does (or is supposed to) this already. Also it doesn't give such a nice overview has having 2 articles, one about each profession as a primary and the other as each profession as a secondary. Having a guide to each of the 30 profession combinations tends to be quite specific, more biased (because it's less general) and will probably steer the reader towards particular skills and gameplay styles. I like the idea of just giving the reader a few tips/pointers, a simple guide to what the profession does (because say a Ranger might be quite different from another game the reader is familiar with). You see Fyren when you say information on the combinations is much more useful it might be more useful to experienced players but these articles are aimed for new Guid Wars players, so specific tactics and skill combinations may not be a helpful as just a general overview that helps them select their primary and secondary profession. --Xasxas256 23:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Propose to move the ProCon elsewhere
Starting a enw section because the above was mostly about the concern on lack of secondary profession coverage.

Anyways, I say we either creat a "Primary Profession Guide" and move the pro-con here overe there, or simply move the pro-con into individual profession articles. I might have been wrong about the 90% thing, but I still don't think the pro-con belong here (esp with new chapters lining up). Collecting votes for 7 days. While I have no personal preference, in the situation of a tie I'm just going to move it to a Primary Profession Guild as a quick copy-paste job. -PanSola 18:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Just move this to Primary Profession Guide. It needs more work though. --Karlos 19:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Please check this shazaam out User:Xasxas256/Secondary_Profession_Guide if we're moving all/most of this article's content to Primary Profession Guide then I've got the secondary guide ready. My guide certainly doesn't feel complete yet but I think it's still useful. For every class it says what the primary attribute you miss out on is (so you can decide if you'd be better off 'flipping' and taking that class as a primary) as well as some useful things the profession can do as a secondary. As Karlos says, I'm happy for you PanSola to just move it and create the Secondary_Profession_Guide using my existing test article. It'd also be good to add a link to both articles on the Pre-Searing_guide I'm happy with everything and everybody, no arguments being started on this talk page :) --Xasxas256 22:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)