Talk:Illusionary Weaponry

Capturing the skill in GW:EN ?
I have killed Nulfastu Earthbound, and he does not have this elite skill. Instead, he has Lyssa's Aura. It is also correctly written in Nulfastus description. Is this just a mistake here, or does he appear with different skills? - Oxxit

Shields
I'm pretty sure a shield with a damage intake modifier (i.e. a PvP Shield -2 while enchanted) will reduce IW attack damage.
 * I don't see where in the article it says reduced damage wouldn't occur. But it does (and should) so you are correct. | Chuiu 00:11, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Shields are physical only now.Ubermancer 17:18, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

Removing the Backfire note
Does backfire trigger when IW is cast, or each time you attack with IW on you? In the later case it is definitly worth keeping. --Xeeron 21:15, 22 March 2006 (CST)
 * If it were the latter case, there's no point in having the empathy combo. The target would be dead regardless. -SolaPan 21:17, 22 March 2006 (CST)
 * Then the note was not only unnecessary, but even missleading and it's good it is gone =) --Xeeron 22:35, 22 March 2006 (CST)


 * I think someone is merely confused about this. It's possible we should put in the NOTES that it triggers Backfire when you cast IW, but not when you attack.  Obviously, someone is confused about it.  ;) --JoDiamonds 02:56, 23 March 2006 (CST)

Backfire is triggered on each IW attack, test it yourselves. --Acidic Thought 11:06, 23 March 2006 (CST)


 * Okay, I tested it, and I can confirm that Backfire does not trigger on IW attacks, though it does trigger on the actual casting. --adeyke 13:53, 23 March 2006 (CST)


 * Then I apoligize about my previous post, either I was tripping on acid, or I was experiencing some lag while using it in pvp. Very sorry.

Unstub
Why is this a stub? -- 01:41, 23 March 2006 (CST)
 * I'll take the liberty. 03:35, 23 March 2006 (CST)

Weapon
This skill doesn't work with any weapon. I tried to hit monsters with a wand and a staff, but the damage was just the same with and without IW. I guess that's what they meant by melee. Note: You can still be hurt by any attack with or with IW.
 * Read the description. It says it only effects your melee attacks.--SavageX 19:48, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
 * If it worked with any weapon the world would be filled with IW Barragers
 * Why isn't the world filled with spirit's strength barragers, may I ask? ;) &mdash; Skuld 11:45, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * Because they are both elites perhaps? :)

that was skuld's point...
 * You can't, but just for the idea you could use arcane mimicry to have both barrage and IW (can't work because barrage is a bow attack, non-melee.)

Illusionary Weaponry says: "target foe takes 8...34 damage." with scythe 3 foes? its must be a bug, because they arent targets...?
 * But the world can be filled with SS volliers (essentialy non elite version of BArrage in EotN, and also Ebon Dust Aura volliers, I think it's essentialy one of hte few GW:EN skills that can be effective.

Does it get affected by skills that trigger when "fail to hit"
Just wondering if it's "deal no damage" equals "fail to hit". Spirit of Failure. -PanSola 01:03, 13 May 2006 (CDT)


 * The two "failures" do not trigger on IW swings. --68.142.14.79 02:26, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

If you use crippling skills such as hamstring while enchanted with illusionary weaponry do you cripple your opponent???


 * I tested hamstring against the barrel dummy targets with IW on and got no effect. I'm assuming all melee attacks won't hit with IW on except for riposte and deadly riposte.


 * It also works on Twin Moon Sweep. but you'll need an enchantment -- redphobia
 * IW is an Enchantment.
 * Yes, IW is an enchantment, except it won't do anything if it's the one removed by Twin Moon --Gimmethegepgun 22:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I used a slightly remixed version of the guildwiki IW build and use hamstring with it in Random Arenas and it worked. Not all that well though because i had 0 swordsmanship. And of course all the attacks hit. Blind does not effect it either because its a spell. Its not like melee at all. When you swing the weapon the enemy just takes damage. --Dachiken

prominent builds
I thought it's just gonna be a link to a category? -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 00:15, 22 June 2006 (CDT)

Combo with Assassin skills?
Has anyone checked if this skill works with assassin attacks or not?


 * If by assassin attacks you are referring to the double strike, then yes that triggers Illusionary Weaponry's damage. An experimental Me/A with high Dagger Mastery was pretty potent in RA (and with some dagger attack skills, very deadly)- Greven 15:35, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * What about an assassin's actually skill effects (cripple, poison etc?) - does a "lead attack" place a lead attack marker on the health bar?--Shadou 06:36, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Nah, lead/off-hand/dual attack markers will only be placed on the target if they hit, and IW doesnt hit.(Terra Xin 05:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT))

Block?
Are Riposte and Deadly Riposte special, or do things like Aegis and Guardian have a chance at blocking IW's effect too? The semantics of the note currently implies the former, which would feel like an anomaly. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 18:35, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
 * The obvious difference is that both ripostes block every attack, not by percentage. The percentage modification of other blocking skills seems to be considered after IW (after "missing"), while skills that block 100% of the time are considered before IW and are therefore triggered. So yes, I think that's an anomaly, too.Machma 06:54, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Then wouldnt Auspicious Parry block IW as well?(Terra Xin 05:10, 5 October 2006 (CDT))


 * No! IW is not a melee attack. Therefore it cannot miss, be blocked, evaded, or dodged. The foe just takes damage when you swing the weapon. I have used it PvP and owned with it! --Dachicken

Pets
Does this skill enhance pet attacks? Pet attacks can be considered melee. &mdash; ::A mont :: 08:04, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
 * "YOU deal no damage in melee, but whenever YOU attack in melee" &mdash; Skuld  08:10, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

zealous weapon?
do u get any energy back while enchanted with IW and wielding a zealous weapon, ie axe? HJT 02:42, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * No. See, you don't actually hit with IW on. Your target just spontaneously takes damage. This is also why you can keep on attacking while Blinded, IW doesn't care about that. --Black Ark 02:56, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

Cyclone Axe
If you use cyclone axe it still hits all the enemies around you! Tested on the minotaurs outside of Ice Tooth Cave. Wow... I wonder if triple chop would work... use that skill that takes someone elses elite. I can't test this, can someone else? EDIT: Maybe Hundred Blades also. That would probably be better actually. Silverwing Slash hits 2x, so Hundred Blades would work.Frvwfr2 13:16, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It should work with Hundred Blades considering that is the whole reason Hundred Blades IS elite. Or so I've heard. It should work wonders with Sun and Moon Slash though, if you have some other way of gaining adrenaline. &mdash; Galil  13:27, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

oh yeah, i meant Sun and moon, not silverwing

^ Arcane mimicry to get illusionary weaponry --> use hundred blades with it on you. Problem solved.

Illusionary weaponry is the reason hundred blades is elite. it pretty much sucks, but with IW it owns everything.--Coloneh RIP 02:37, 23 February 2007 (CST)

I have question about multi-target hitting, Do the targeted foe takes all the damage from the IW or each hit target takes his own damage ? (sry for my english)

Me/D
I posted a build in my user space. It's User:Mgrinshpon/Grinch_Mesmer. I think this build has the potential to replace the classic Me/W (assuming the skills aren't radically tweaked). What do you folks think? The advantages? Sand Shards activates upon a miss, and if you're hitting 3 people, that's almost 100 points of damage per swing. Also, each time someone attacks you, they're crippled preventing them running away from you. Finally, when your first enchantment is stripped, there's a PBAoE crippling effect allowing Sand Shards to do it's work. Disadvantages? No speed boost in attack, but Sand Shards is supposed to counteract that loss completely, and then some. I think that's pretty nifty. --Mgrinshpon 06:34, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Sand Shards doesn't work iwth IW IIRC &mdash; Skuld 06:36, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Are you positive? Have you tried it? --Mgrinshpon 06:39, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Talk:Sand Shards &mdash; Skuld 06:40, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, I'll just have to try it out for myself is all. No biggie. If it doesn't, so be it. --Mgrinshpon 06:56, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's because Sand Shards reqiure attacks to fail. Illusionary Weaponry actually causes attacks to "deal no damage" but that doesn't warrant the properties of the attack failing. IW replaces it with the properties of magical hitting instead. (Terra Xin 05:15, 5 October 2006 (CDT))
 * The Dervish's IAS skills are Heart of Fury and Whirling Charge, but neither of them can be maintained continuously. Considering also the fact that scythes are already intrinsically slower than swords, and that the PBAoE nature of scythes probably won't be too useful in PvP, I don't see how a Me/D could be more useful than Me/W. My Me/W in PvE has an alternate weapon set with the Soulbreaker, but I think that's the extent of the Dervish's usefulness as far as an IW Mesmer goes. 404notfound 23:01, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Me/Ws can use scythes too~ But yes, PvP wise, it's kinda weak unless you're mowing through undead in AB, in which an PBAoE Derv or even a symbol of wrath would be more painful. Great for farming though. --Silk Weaker

Trivia section
Its the eternal blade that the ghostly used to have d: &mdash; Skuld 11:53, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That was my edit, I just forgot to note it here. I got the tip from someone who posted it up on GwG but I can't find the thread. (Terra Xin 05:26, 5 October 2006 (CDT))
 * Ooo A Collosal Scimitar eh? That sounds like the perfect wepon fow IW mesmers. I wonder how it will fare on the trading floor. (Terra Xin 08:45, 6 October 2006 (CDT))


 * Why is the trivia important? If you're gonna use trivia, why not just state the name of the weapon? I don't know the English name for it, but it's a real weapon, so shouldn't the trivia state that instead of something like "oh, it's the same weapon as the one in x location." -Silk Weaker 00:56, 21 October 2006 (CDT)


 * It's called a Falchion. A one-handed single-edged sword resembling a Persian Scimitar, with the weight and power of an axe and the versatility of a sword. (Miral 16:50, 7 April 2007 (MST))

Question re: Viper's Defense
Is Assassin's Viper's Defense, commonly used by Onis of the Deep, triggered by IW attack?


 * No. --Wil 02:52, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

No longer works with a scythe?
I heard that the way scythes work has been changed, and now, it'll deal damage to nearby foes only if the main foe is actually hit, and IW makes all your attack deal no damage ("misses"), so it doesn't trigger the damage any more. Can someone confirm this?


 * Good news! It does. (work, that is) - Aeothan


 * You mean if the target blocks?  Doubt it, the effect seems to act just like a magic spell.  "foe takes damage" means they skip all the other functions used in combat which means for a Scythe, it's always going to be dispensed in a small melee Cone that only checks for range, not hit-checks.  Oddly enough tho, I just tested it with Twin-Moon sweep, which produced 2x IW damage AND a Heal for each target in the cone even though Balt's-Rage and Mystic-Vigor weren't gaining me any health on their own. --ilr

Regardless, with IW the target foe is hit, the weapon just does zero damage to it. Thus, unless you are blinded, this will make no difference to the build.--TheDrifter 15:36, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Lightbriger
Is IW increased by your lightbringer title?  Ricky  Tested.Is not increased...

Tainted Flesh
Is it triggered? System Of A Guild 11:33, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No, just tested. 90.26.119.108 19:36, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

Shadow Form
I've playing this weekend with this elite on AB, I was surprise to see that I can kill Shadow Form assas. IW can deal damage over shadow form, nice! --Crigore 12:09, 10 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That figures, since, as posted earlier, IW doesn't actually require you to hit. It's the same as attacking through blind, really. Ruricu 20:30, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Daggers, Swords and Flurry
Ok, it's confirmed that daggers over mastery of 10 deal more IW strikes than a sword with flurry will (At the cost of an offhand and expending points into their weapon mastery), but how does that compare to untrained dagger use in conjunction with flurry?

Would a W/Me (or Me/W) using flurry and a pair of daggers strike more hits on average than an A/Me (or Me/A) with high dagger mastery? --85.62.18.3 20:04, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It doesn't matter. At the high levels of dagger mastery you state, you might as well just use attack skills that deal more damage than this could ever hope to --Gimmethegepgun 20:25, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * ok it just seams silly to me that daggers at rank 10 would attack faster. each rank gives u 2% chance to double strike i think. so 5 attacks gives u 1 more attack. with flurry u gain 1 attack every 3. So i really fail to see how daggers are going to attack faster. next time if u do testing make sure its a big enough data quantity to rule out simple "luck". Another thing that bugs me on page is the little line "combines well with skills that end when u hit with an attack"...well not all skills are going to benefit iw simply cause they end when u hit and u dont hit with iw. try instead saying, "skills that end when u succesfuly hit with an attack are not ended by iw" :-) For similar skills maybe Avatar of lysa should be put in cause of its armor ignoring bonus dmg. kind of a stetch but just a thought. I love iw so much that i have like 4-5 different GOOD builds using it in my skill templates. Try Iw/pet with heckets rampage/predatory bond for fast dmg and good heals. lacks a decent cover enchant but i find the less enchants i have the less likely iw is shattered :-) One more thing, does any one use ever use an axe with iw? i mean all i ever think to use is a sword, daggers, or a scythe :-) female mesmers have an awesome attack animation with a sword...ok enough babbling. Justin
 * Your math's a bit off, it would be 1 extra attack every 5 if it was 20%, but they have 2% with no dagger mastery. That makes it 1 extra attack every 50 --Gimmethegepgun 15:07, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

if u use daggers w/ flurry u get a higher DPS. . . dont u?
 * Barely, it's only a 2% chance to get an extra hit. You're better off getting the armor bonus from the shield --Gimmethegepgun 15:04, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Shield armor is nice but mixing Deadly Paradox with Feigned Neutrality is much harder to kill. Too bad IW sucks ass. No really, aside from being possibly the easiest build to use in pvp (aside from stationary spirit spamming), besides hitting through blind and blocking what good is this? Either do pathetic DPS without condition removal or enchantment removal or superb DPS with proper condition and enchantment removal.
 * yeah my math is so far off...1 more attack every 50 attacks...u cant even attack 50 times in one iw lol. i swear the only elite skill my mesmer uses is iw. i have a iw/beast build, iw/earth build, iw/paladin build(vigerous spirit, breeze). Your right that iw isnt something i would use in gvg. what is great about it is u can slip dmg under protective spirit, and its a constant pressure skill. like a 15-20 dgen skill :-) What might be interesting is to set up marks till u get dual attack then cast iw and just spam a dual attack repeatedly and since it will miss your marks wont wear off. obviously not an energy efficient build but it would be kinda fun in ra :-)

How about combining that idea with exhausting assault? It only requires a lead attack and the description does not imply that a hit is required to trigger the interuption/exhaustion effect. Nor does the skill require any points in Dagger Mastery to be more effective. So you would have an IW Me/A doing a dual attack every 8 seconds and interupting the target/causing exhaustion on the target every 8 seconds. Might be fun in RA.63.246.188.199 01:31, 12 July 2007 (CDT)Mindful Mesmer
 * Tested this. Exhaustin Assault will not trigger the interupt/exhaustion while IW is in effect. The Dual attack effect does stay in place, though, so you can use Death Blossom to dual attack every 2 seconds. You could enter this using Golden Phoenix Strike (enchant yourself with something from Shadow Arts, first)->IW->Death Blossom spam. Note that the marks for lead/off-hand/etc will wear off (after 20 seconds, I believe). You also must make certain to allow IW to expire and start the chain again. 63.246.188.199 02:39, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You wouldn't need to enchant yourself before IW to trigger Golden Phoenix, IW is an enchantment.
 * Yeah you would, otherwise GPS won't hit. La va Ed ge 324 ++[[Image:Conjure_Flame.jpg|20px]] 10:18, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Illusionary Weapon + Weaponless Hero's
Take away a Hero's weapon and give them illusionary Weaponry, they'll attack at range and deal Illusionnary's damage. They wont use IW or attack without being told to, and will sometimes try to reach they're target in melee, but flagged away from there target and Ctrl+Space and they will attack at range.

Dual Strikes
Will it dual strike if u use any dual attack, even without an offhand?--Godess of Angels 22:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * ?, i am assuming u mean assassin dual attacks and yes but u have to have the target marked for a dual attack first. there are a couple options to do that and once target is marked u can spam dual attacks all day and the marks wont wear off till the 20 second natural decay. I dont know of any one who uses an off-hand item with daggers, if u do tell me so i can learn that trick ;-)

JRyan --64.33.197.58 16:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Im pretty sure he meant offhand attack not offhand item. Since IW does is not affected by misses can u spam a dual attack without an offhand attack and should still get the double hit effect?

EotN Monsters
Im so happy they put this skill back into the game on monsters. Before GW:En the only monsters using it were like 3 bosses and those weakass mesmers in UW who still could own a team who wasnt thinking (showing peeps that iw isnt weak). There are a couple iw builds i use that i wouldnt mind seeing on enemy mobs to test them out verse groups ;-) IW,vigerous spirit, breeze, distortion, illusionary weakness, mending, balthazars spirit, rez chant. ;-) JRyan --64.33.197.58 16:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Illusionary Weaponry vs Mist Form
Who wins? I REALLY really want to know :D--Relyk 02:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * IW. i used to do infusion runs on my iw mes/derv. beauty of it is that i would run to cave and then run solo to eidilon and kill him grabbing essence and run back. no dumb dead party members.JRyan 19:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Weapon Spells
Do they work in conjunction with this skill? I don't see why not, but you never know. Silver40596 18:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, you never hit your target, so they cant trigger Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 19:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But yes they do still effect you like normal. Like that elite one spirit light weapon that heals. --JRyan 19:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

10 dagger mastery not faster
math: rank10 X 2%(doublestrike chance)= 20% 1 out of 5 attacks will double strike so of every 5 attacks u get 6

1.33 X 5 = 6.65 seconds 6.65seconds / (1.33 X .67attackspeed%)= 7.46 attacks

With daggers at rank 10 u get 6 attacks for every 5 regular attacks With flurry u get 7.46 attacks for every 5 regular attacks

Removed note, if u feel i am wrong then give us a data sheet that has enough numbers to remove doubt of just plain old dumb luck.--JRyan 19:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A note I created a LONG time ago was altered to a VERY nice state a while back, but then some random person who had NO idea what he was talking about changed it to the piece of crap you just removed. However, the old note was very good at describing it, so I re-added it --Gimmethegepgun 20:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for clearing it up. I wrote something about it further up on the talk page but peeps were just saying my math was wrong and what not. True enough it really is scarry seeing a mes/a hiting you with iw using high rank in daggers...double 42 just makes u cry shit lol.--JRyan 22:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That ain't scary. Much rather face that than someone using IW INTELLIGENTLY or some sin using high dagger mastery --Gimmethegepgun 00:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Well dur...i would wrather face iw then a dual attune light orb/hammer air spiker when on a low armor caster profession...but i was just saying --JRyan 19:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

AV/SV
doesn't trigger them...helped a friend get a spider by doing 55/famine with him in UW and it literally took us 45 min just to do the wrathful spirits quest because we had to wand them to death 65.78.6.239 02:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * AV and SV say whenever you're hit, and you don't hit under this. So yes, it will never trigger. --Shadowcrest  02:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Glitch....
IW works with casters swords & scythes but it WONT work with spears of the same sort of spec.

20% ench with +5 energy. anybody know why this is?? it just seems like a contradiction for some reason.

If a Me/D can wield a sword & use IW successfully & a Me/W can use a scythe with the build then why not a casters spear???

78.146.63.94 11:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

For the same reason it doesn't work with any other Ranged weapon, IW only works on Melee weapons doesn't matter on the mods Big B 11:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

"you deal no damage in melee, but whenever you attack in melee"  ∞ ∞ IPO ∞ ∞  11:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone should check what happens with Spear Swipe :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Spear Swipe counts as a ranged attack at melee range [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Price of Failure?
Does it trigger Price of Failure?
 * OK, tested on Seear Windlash and it doesn't.

Assassin's Note
"A common belief is that a Me/A with daggers will have a higher damage output than a Me/W with a sword or axe, but this is incorrect. With 12 Dagger Mastery, a 26% chance to double strike is not as effective as Flurry, which requires 0 attribute points and is equivalent to a double strike on every other attack. In addition, swords and axes also allow use of a shield or focus item. Attacks under this enchantment only require that you swing a weapon to inflict the stated damage, therefore Blindness, miss and blocking skills are not effective; Reckless Haste is actually a benefit"

I still prefer assassins, over the simple fact their surviving skills are better then Warrior survivor skills. Not using Flurry allows you to use a stance like Dark Escape, which will not end on hit, because you are not actually hitting. It allows you to use Feigned Neutrality, which will again last it's full duration if you don't use skills. I still think Me/A would do a better job then Me/W.Thomahawk 09:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It depends on what you want to maximize: damage or survivability. Me/W can also use a Shield for up to +16 armor and other things. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)