Talk:Arcane Echo

"Arcane Echo ends prematurely if you use a non-spell skill." So the "waiting" period will end prematurely if you use a non-spell skill, but once AE copies something, you can use non-spell skills and the copied skill will still be there for 20 seconds?
 * Yes. The enchantment will end no matter what if you use a skill.  Once you've copied something, the skill remains copied for 20s.  --Fyren 10:50, 6 November 2005 (EST)
 * What I meant is, if I have Life Siphon copied and during that time, I use Mantra of Recovery, will the copied Life Siphon instantly turn back into Arcane Echo?
 * I answered that. --Fyren 20:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

"Use Glyph of Sacrifice before casting the echoed spell. This will allow that echo to be cast instantly, and the extra recharge time won't matter because Arcane Echo has its own timer." Is this what's happening? [Spell] > Arcane Echo > Glyph > Echo'ed Spell If so, wouldn't the echo'ed spell have an extra 90-second recharge time, resulting in it reaching the 20-second limit before you can use it again? Or did I get this completely wrong and that the AE'ed spell can only be casted once anyways?


 * The suggestion is arcane echo, spell, sacrifice, spell. The idea is if the spell already has a recharge longer than 20s, you'll only get to cast it once anyway, so the +90s doesn't matter.  Even so, I don't think it's a very useful tip.  --Fyren 12:10, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I beg to differ, Fyren =) The advantage is the second instance of the spell being echoed can't be interrupted. Invaluable for those annoyingly long casting spells like Meteor Shower or Maelstorm (pve nuking, of course). --Kiiron 13:31, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * In PvE, if you're going to get interrupted, then the first one will probably be interrupted, too. Something like mantra of resolve would work better, since then it'll protect both casting and arcane echo.  --Fyren 13:34, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * In PvE, it's trivially easy to avoid being interrupted if you hang back and let the other party members (or henchies) draw agro first. It's not until after you first attack an enemy or heal an ally that you have to worry about interruption. Also, other methods of avoiding interruption require points to be spent in the attribute, but glyphs require none. It's a very situational fix to avoid interruption, I agree, but it works wonders for echo nuking. --Kiiron 13:41, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Well, now you've gone from "it's good to avoid interruption" to "it's trivially easy to avoid interruption." If all the enemies waste interrupts on henchmen or other party members, you have at least 15s till they recharge and you have time to cast anything in the game twice.  --Fyren 14:09, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * interestring combo BUT Echo and Arcane Echo are the most vulnerable skills to interruppts, someone can interrupt echo, or the skill to be echoed or even this Glyph of Sacrifice, and this strategy becomes useless. So you need Mantra of Resolve with this!! Anyways Interrupting someone who casts echo is always "double fun" no matter if you use this glyph or not because you interrupt 2 skills with one hit, someone who doesnt just failed in the game, even if he faces mantra of resolve.
 * Me+E generally uses echo/arcane echo if the skill recharges faster than 15 seconds and glyph of renewal if it recharges longer than 15 seconds. No place for the glyph or sacrifice so whats the point in this combo? Here's one funny but barely usefull combo for elementalists with too much energy against foes that have a lot of armor and no excessive interrupt or any knockdown:
 * Three metheor showers within 7 seconds with a 7 second preperation time = making 3 metheor showers out of 1 every 65 seconds:
 * 00 sec : 5 energy - arcane echo
 * 02 sec : 30 energy - meteor shower cast at "7", recharged at "67"
 * 07 sec : 35 energy - glyph of renewal
 * 08 sec : 60 energy - echoed meteor shower with instant recharge cast at "13"
 * 13 sec : 65 energy - glyph of sacrifice
 * 14 sec : 90 energy - echoed meteor shower instantly cast at "14"
 * 28 sec : echoed meteor ends and arcane echo recharges till "58"
 * 60 sec : 105 energy - Mantra of Resolve ;)
 * 65 sec : arcane echo (same as at "0" above)
 * 67 sec : meteor shower (same as at "2" above)
 * the circle goes 65 seconds (mantra of resolve and arcane echo can be cast earlier to initiate the loop). you gain ~90 energy meanwhile (and regenerate ~22 exhaustion). you have to "make" extra ~18 more energy (+ whatever you lose for every interrupt by mantra of resolve) with skills you cast in the 44 second gap in between the last meteor shower and mantra of resolve, not so hard with 4 more free skill slots and 11 inspiration magic.

I rewrote the notes. It's pretty much the same, but I removed the repetition and one or two obvious things. One thing that's incorrect was that if you begin casting a spell and that spell is interrupted, you lose the echo enchantment. You don't. You keep it. Of course, whatever plan you had is probably screwed. --Fyren 12:06, 7 November 2005 (EST)

Interaction with glyphs
The text snipped was:
 * Activating Arcane Echo removes any activated and pending Glyphs, while activating Glyphs will remove a pending Arcane Echo. (This suggests that Arcane Echo might actually be a Glyph, though it isn't presented that way to the user. It may merely be a bug.)

The bit about it being a bug is nonsense. Glyphs affect the next spell and AE is a spell. AE ends prematurely if the next skill is not a spell, and Glyphs aren't spells. I see no inconsistency. Furthermore, AE cannot be a glyph because it is strippable, whereas glyphs aren't. &mdash; Stabber 03:23, 22 March 2006 (CST)


 * OK, duly noted. Thanks for clearing that up.  I was poorly informed and didn't realize that AE automatically ended prematurely when a non-spell skill was used. --JoDiamonds 03:46, 22 March 2006 (CST)
 * How does this work now that glyphs have been changed to work for multiple spells? VegaObscura 00:32, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Not offered in Kamandan
Just wanted to comment that I just checked with Prophecies Elementalist/Mesmer and a Factions Mesmer/Monk. Arcane Echo is not offered by Tohn, the skill trainer in Kamadan, Jewel of Istan. I'll update the page to indicate that, but I've not gotten very far in Nightfall to be able to say where it is first offered. If any of you can do so, it would be appreciated. -- Mike Arms 15:42, 3 December 2006 (CST)

Can it recharge be reduced?
Well, I tried Shadow form+arcane echo+costant Quickening zephyr, and QZ ddint shorten Arcane echos recharge
 * Was QZ active when the echoed Shadow Form ended and Arcane Echo started its recharge? --Ufelder 23:07, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Random question about echo-mending and such, i know it makes no sense, but how does that skill even apply to something? Would it stack? Ive always wondered about this, and im not talking of mending in particular, rather another healing enchant


 * No, enchs of the same time do not stack. &mdash; Skuld 05:48, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Try echo chaining mending Xeon 06:39, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Whenever someone mentions "echo mending" it is a joke. Mending has 0 recharge already and does not stack. VegaObscura 02:01, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Enchantment removing spells?
Will enchantment removing spells turn back the echoed skill to arcane echo? -J ja l 2003 11:35, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * If the skill has already been echoed, no. But it can be removed before any spell is echoed. --Thervold 11:37, 30 January 2007 (CST)

recharge time of echo can't be changed?
i'm trying to get the recharge time of echo faster but it doesn't seem to work... I cast Deadly paradox, then echo then sf... so when I cast the echoed SF echoe end at the same time and i'm still under deadly paradox... then I cast the real one after the echoed... and echo finally recharge but the original sf isn't ready there is like 5 second... since echor echarge in 30 second and sf last 25 second :S anyone have an idea to get a quicker recharge on echo or a longer sf?

You show me how to use SF, AE, and Deadly Paradox on the same bar, and I'll show you how to make AE recharge faster. The Paintballer (T/C) 14:05, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Hero Echo Useage
Has anyone found a method to the madness of how heroes decide what spell to echo? It'd be nice if it were the skill listed right after an echo skill, or random if the echo skill is placed at the end. But it appears to be largely random regardless. Of course you could always disable echo and manually cast it. But then, between manually casting echo and the skill you want echoed, you will probably end up canceling at least one other skill that they decide to cast before one of two your manually commanding (and therefore wasting energy). --Mooseyfate 08:35, 4 March 2007 (CST)


 * I got so annoyed with my Master of Whispers for echoing Parasitic Bond (when SS, Insidious Parasite and Price of Failure were on his bar) that I took it away from him until he learned some sense. RossMM 10:41, 12 March 2007 (CDT)


 * heros rank skills from left to right, so have acrane echo at far left and which ever you dont want to echo far right or close to it. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 10:44, 12 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I've read that as well, but some people disagree so it is far from certain. RossMM 11:18, 12 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Youre right though, heros suck at using this skill, even when placed at far left with Meteor Shower, then Searing Heat, then Tenai's heat. Zhed echoed my Elemental Attunement that was at the far right of the bar.--Gigathrash 22:01, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Wrong Description
The description says that the spell is copied for 20 seconds which can't be right because I can get off 2 Spiteful Spirits with the copy and Spiteful Spirit has a 10 second recharge and 2 second activation. I use a Villnar's staff, so i have a 20% chance of halving my actication. Therefore, the spell is copied for at leas 2*(10 [recharge])+2*(1 [activation with half effect best case scenario])+2*(.75 [aftercast delay])=>25 seconds   Go defenestrate yourself. 03:05, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * What? The copied spell isn't recharging to start.  Aftercast is also irrelevant unless the recharge is less than the aftercast.  Also, please read GW:SIGN and update your signature.  --Fyren 00:36, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * To be more precise, once you've used it, it recharges and then you use it again, which would take, at least, 14 seconds. With human reflexes, it would be at most 16 seconds, so no, the description is not wrong. --Kale Ironfist 00:50, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So you cast AE, it starts to recharge, you cast another spell in the 20 seconds of the enchantment and that is the time that the 20 seconds timer starts (we do not care about the recharge of AE, we do not care any more about duration of the AE enchantment), in your example SS only replaces AE once it finishes casting (check that with Meteor Shower, cast AEed SS which will start recharging at 2 seconds, at 10 seconds the real SS is ready, at 12 seconds the AEed SS is ready, this means that at 14 seconds in you will start your second recharge of the AEed SS and have the skill ready again at 24 seconds which is 4 seconds too slow for a third cast, the real SS will be ready at 22 for a third cast. That is LOTS of Spite (5x in 24 seconds)! You could even cast 2x AEed 15 seconds spells in 1 AE. --Heurist 15:34, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

wtf
Arcane Echo is an enchantment that automatically enchants the caster. It lasts for 20 seconds, but if it gets removed, you will lose the ability to copy your next spell.

No shit.


 * Please remember to sign your comments with 4 tildes and try not to be so rude. yes, it is an enchantment and it can be removed. --Firestorm2 13:40, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Buff
20 seconds recharge now allows assassins to keep Shadowform up 24/7, Im have a feeling this will get back to 30 seconds cooldown in the next patch though-- ( √ iktor ) 08:18, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think AE is fine at 20sec but Shadow Form itself should be changed in some way so it cannot be echoed or so Dealdy Paradox does not work with it, but we all know Anet and that they will either completely nerf Shadow Form or just take the easy option and revert AE. 149.135.97.117 23:27, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What ANet most needs to do is to change Paradox so it is NOT USEFUL without deadly arts! Everyone uses the freaking skill with no deadly arts so they can get their Feigned Neutrality noobness to recharge faster or to make it so they can keep this up. If they just made it a scaled range like they did with Deadly Haste then this problem would be repaired --Gimmethegepgun 14:13, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

The same thing can work now with SB. Markh 13:54, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Bug
...in OUR favor. If you Arcane Echo "Echo," then copy another skill, the skill will stay for Echo's 30 seconds, rather than Arcane Echo's 20 seconds. The 20 second cool down still applies. --Serpent615 4:49, 14 August 2007
 * Not a bug. You copied Echo, which replaces skills for 30 seconds, not 20. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 15:09, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * yes, but arcane echo is suposed to revert after 20 seconds...meaning echo should only be there 20 seconds (if u don't copy another skill, it reverts after 20)...so, why should it stay for 30 seconds and overide the origional skill(being arcane echo)?Serpent615 4:24, 16 August 2007
 * Arcane Echo copies Echo for 20 sec. If you leave it that way it'll vanish after 20. However if you Echo something, Echo will be "used" and will last for it's full duration. If you would Echo and cast a Meteor Shower, the meteors won't stop falling if the Echo ends. They'll still last for the full duration. Same with Enchantments, Hexes and anything else. When Echo copies a skill, it's the Echo's "Effect" to change the skillbar, and it lasts for the full duration, just like everything else. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 19:30, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

Shadow Form + deadly paradox
I'm not the first person to say this, but you can quite easily maintain shadow form solo now instead of needing two people to mimic it off of each other. This led me to consider a UW team with a sin acting as a tank instead of the 55 and then I realized... you don't get hit while in shadow form, so you can't drain smites energy with SV AV. Could bring an ele, but thats kind of slow. However in an area where that is not the issue you can have infinite aggro with only 3 skill slots used. With 100 free attribute points and 5 other skill slots you should be able to find a way to either solo, or two man just about anything. Another note. Anyone going for cartography titles may want to take advantage of this before the inevitable nerf comes around. Can scrape all you want in 9 out of 10 areas without caring about over aggroing because, well, you can't.  May need deaths charge (which also got buffed) to get out of a crevice, but it certainly would seem to make that a pretty easy, albeit still time consuming, title to get. Kelvin Greyheart 21:15, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Wasn't fun when we met a sin doing this in RA, he left eventually after we gave him feedback on damage, energy drain etc :P Lord of all tyria 13:39, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

Command Post
I editted Command Post into the Skill Trainers list, but it was taken down because it isnt. The reason was because I unlocked it. Thing is it hasnt been unlocked on my account yet...

Anyone else able to get Arcane Echo at Command Post without unlocking it yet?

Bug or Something
Anyone have seen that when the time expires for the copied spell and Arcane Echo is reverted to the recharging Arcane Echo, the meter of all your other recharging skills seems to be reduced. It's like if they'd all gain a couple of seconds all of a suddent.Big Bow 20:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, don't complain :P I have thesame. It's cool --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 20:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't do much research, but I think the recharge is the same. It's just the indicator that moves, as if the skill suddenly got a higher max recharge. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * that is what I think also, since I prolly had the same timing with me other skills.Big Bow 00:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not. I tested it with Shadow Form. The first time, my recharge was suddenly almost cut in half (I used deadly paradox, then echo, then SF. After that, when echo reverted, SF was first almost at half, then suddenly less than a quarter, leaving me enough time to recast it before it ended). HOWEVER! The second time and third time, it was cut by a quarter or less, thus not giving me enough time to recast it. &mdash; eX tinctioN 20:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok srry for double post but I found out more. It seems that recharges are cut by a quarter (more or less). However, there's something with DP and arcane echo. As I said, I thought that recharge was cut by half. But, it wasn't. After I used that combo (Arcane echo, and while it was still casting, activate DP, then SF), SF recharged Faster than it normally would with DP. Recharge was still cut by a quarter . My conclusion is, Arcane Echo bugs with DP. It's a chance 1/5 (tested about 20 times and only had 4 times reduced recharge). &mdash; eX tinctioN 21:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ummm... You sure you didn't have a weapon that reduces spell recharge time? SF is a spell. The bug is only graphical. SF recharges normally. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 23:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, you're right, I didn't think of that :D &mdash; eX tinctioN 11:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thievery note
Isn't it obvious that it copies the Thieving skill? --Organism X 22:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)