Talk:Gate of Madness (mission)/Archive 1

Plz read this before u want to edit the article :

Guys, to be honest, killing shiro is easy and safe if u get all the blessing(it would be easier if u pull shino out of the gate). No specific build & skills(eg. ward, ss, sv, mesmer skills, knockdown etc) is needed/essential (even no wildblow is ok), so plz dun add more suggestion/tips on killing shiro that is not really really helpful.

There's a lot of suggestiones in the "Tips for Defeating Shiro" now, some players are very confused by that and dun able to decide which skills/heros/henchman should they bring. I know u guys r very kind and like to provide some help to the players, but plz conider my words before u want to modify this entry. Hokit 22:21, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * I agree on the most, but you must take into consideration who is giving this advices, like an example, me. I post only truth and possibles, and have the pictures to prove it and also the titles. So please if you have any questions about my postings, find me in the game as Lck King I can email you the JPG's of the quest's and posting I modify.--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * Looks like I'll have try the doorway trick - thanks for all the tips! So far, whole Nightfall campaign has been amazingly easy to solo, thanks to heroes. However, with my usual team and strategies I can't win this mission. Lich dies in a few seconds, np. Then I capture the shrines for bonus while ignoring Shiro. Shiro can't kill my team, but I can't get Shiro past 20-30% HP due to Battle Scars + Impossible Odds healing him. Thank god he doesn't have his old meditation anymore. - 192.6.19.202 03:59, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

You know what you can do, put a monk at the corner on the left hand side of the temple door on the outside, and bring 2 or so warriors. Then when Shiro attacks the monk the warriors will surround him and trap him, and when he tries to switch target after the monk dies, he won't be able to move to the target and will just spam battle scars/Impossible odds, allowing your team to wand him to death. Of course, it won't work until he's on low health and using Impossible odds, as he has riposting shadows before that time. I did it solely by accident twice with hench+heroes, The first time he riposting shadows out, but the second time he was on low enough health, he was then wanded to death. 220.240.69.209 01:52, 24 December 2006 (CST)

A good strategy is to have 2 A/R critical rangers with Favorable Winds and Disrupting Accuracy and Way of the Assassin, Critical Eye and Needling Shot and have them both needling shiro when hes below 50% health since he will use Impossible Odds under 50% health and will maximaze the chance of interruption. -- Superman5311 - December 19th, 2006, 19:05EST
 * I tried this strategy for hard mode and it works very well. The two times shiro tried to cast impossible odds the sins interrupted him. Moreover if he did get it off likely his attacks would be mostly interrupted anyways minimizing damage.

GOD DAMN THIS MISSION IS SO HARD

Spoil victor does work wonders =) When doing this mission, forget echo/ss......go echo/spoil victor O_0 works well even as you're going through the mission. Blood well spam also works great since there's tons of corpses.

I find it a little unfair that the only way to beat Shiro now is to use Spoil Victor. He is far too powerful and every one is struggling. Personally, I have got him down to 10% health with Master of Whispers as Spoil Victor/blood while 30% health with Master of Whispers Spiteful Spirit, reckless haste and price of failure. Not only that, but Impossible Odds can also be combined with Battle Scars, as Impossible Odds is only a skill, not a stance. So it IS possible to hench this mission, but you'd have to get lucky and hope that most of your hench don't crowd together and get slaughtered. Also, Wild Blow for battle scars will help. Darkobra


 * This is not truth, shiro can be beaten without spoil victor.--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * I agree, Spoil Victor is not necessary.

I fixed the note on the bonus - you actually have to capture the shrines, a la AB, not kill the Margonites there. Shido 17:30, 4 November 2006 (CST) Also, they'll come uncapped after an amount of time. Shido 02:00, 6 November 2006 (CST)
 * After they become neutral, you can go and recapture the shrines to refresh your Gods' blessings, should the fight go on for more than 20 minutes (as it often does for me). This is especially useful if your tank as acquired DP because the blessings - particularly those regarding armor and health - can make a difference during that last 10% of Shiro's health. Skyreal 08:42, 11 November 2006 (CST)

Another possible help would be Norgu with Psychic Distraction and Signet interrupts as his only skills. Robotic interrupts ftw. Shido 02:00, 6 November 2006 (CST)
 * I've also totally destroyed this mission with a geomancer tank build. With Stoneflesh Aura, Armor of Earth, Stone Striker, Mantra of Earth, and Ward Against Melee, I took ZERO damage from both bosses' normal attacks, with the only damage coming in being lifestealing from Battle Scars. Shido 20:03, 17 November 2006 (CST)


 * I used a hench mesmer to beat the mission, Norgu would be a fine adition, but it will take the spot tha tyou could use on a good monk of a good warrior (which if you runned him properly and with good stances can be key on the mess)--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Easily done with bots, and without specific skills. You can see all the strategy I used in this screenshot (Sorry for the italian text) --Mercurio 09:24, 14 November 2006 (CST)

By the way I altered the reading of the lich begin weak vs fire... I know for a fact he is as an experienced fire ele (13months +) I can see quite cleary how much damage I'm actually doing. and how much of a percentile of my hard hits actually do. shiro has 110AL vs fire damage... (Effectively only taking 56dmg from a 112 metor 50% reduction)The lich himself only has 50al Vs fire damage taking approximatly 25% MORE damage than is specificed on my skillbar. (My flares hit him for 70 when they only deal 56 and metors 140) Another note about the liches skills I have screenshots of all his skills (The two of them) but I don't know howto make a template for them and I can't upload images as the server is transfering. ''Hunger of the lich: (5energy 3/4cast) Attack (monster only) If this attack hits target foe it removes one enchantment. if an Enchantment is removed gain 100health and 5energy.'' Also Life vortex: (5Energy 2cast 10recharge) Skill (Monster only) Steal up to 200 health from each foe within 30feet Yes it actually says "feet" although I have no clue as to how far that is in game measurement.
 * Thanks for the info on Lich skills, I'll try and put those up as soon as possible and add them to the article. I also modified the section about the fight with Shiro, where it says he as all the skills he did in the last mission in Factions, I don't believe that's true as I've yet to see him use Meditation of the Reaper, nor Echoing Banishment yet. --waywrong 03:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Really? I use a fire ele, and with 16 fire magic my fireballs and meteors hit exactly 200 on lich. Also, I find giving Norgu psychic distraction is completely ineffective - he refuses to use it unless you tell him to manually. I tried disabling all his other skills and still nothing. However, I somehow managed to beat it with only heroes and henchmen, without interrupting impossible odds and having burning (through mark of rodgort + 2 fire eles) as my only form of health degen. I was an echo nuker + sousuke echo nuker + tahlkora as prot + norgu echoing empathy + mhenlo, kihm, devona, and aidan.--Wizardboy777

About solo with hero + henchman
Make use of Spiteful Spirit to reduce Shino's damage on your tank, this mission can be done with hero + henchman(no matter your profession), here is the team setup

1) 1 Warrior Tank(u better use a hero as I dunno Devona can take this role or not) Skills : endure pain，watch yourself，wind blow，boynett's defense and some weapon attack skills.


 * Devona cant take it, she dont have the skills to survive 2 seconds with Battle Scars. Sever Artery and Gash Work nice on Shiro, and make him waste time getting rid of them.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Attribute : weapon 12 or higher, strength 9 or higher, tactics 9 or higher
 * If the proper runes are used on your heroe, the attribute points should be higher than this making the job easier.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

2) 1 MM (must brings SS)

Skills : Blood of master, animating bone fiend, animating shatter bones, Spiteful spirit(disable), Signet of lost souls, etc Attribute : dead 12 or higher, 9 soup reaping, curse 9 or higher


 * I doubt that this mission can be made with more than 1 mm. Minions do not obey commands and they attack without anything around. Shiro will fight them and possible go down in health to the point of start using Meditation before all the shrines are taken.

3) Searing flame Ele(must bring fireball)

4) 2 x Monks henchman(If you the monk, then bring healing seed and healing breeze to keep the tank alive)

5) Mesmer henchman

6) any caster/range attack npc u like

Way to kill Shino

1) the whole team go inside to pull Shino outside the gate(Shino only!! No lich!!)

2) flag your npc outsude the gate

3) only the tank is allowed to stay close to Shino

4) enable SS of the necro and disable any other non-signet skill of the necro so that he have enough en to spam SS on Shino.

5) disable searing flame of the ele coz impossible odds will make your tank get burned.

5) keep call target on shino

6) you will see your warrior's HP always > 70% when Shino is suffered from SS

7) If you want some fun then disable SS to see how impossible odds kill your tank


 * This part is not signed I seriously doubt that shiro can be pulled away from the Lich, i tried sveral times to do this and did not work, so please sign your post and tell me how you did that? I will like to know how accurate this information is.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * How does SS reduce the damage on your tank? --waywrong 03:29, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I have no idea why but I have use this team setup to kill him > 15 times. And I have tried to disable the SS then the tank got killed quickly.(You can try yourself) I wonder if the behavour of Shino's AI is changed a bit when suffered from SS so that his acts strange and then he reduce his attack frequency or tends not to use some great damage skills. Hokit 05:07, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I just tested this, I see no visible difference to the amount of damage that Shiro is causing, whether he has SS on him or not. This may be because I had protective spirit on me while Shiro was beating on me, but there is pretty much no way for me to test this without protective spirit as Shiro will beat me to a pulp within 5 seconds with or without SS.  I tried doing it with Healing Hands, but he owns me through Healing Hands too -_-;. --waywrong 09:34, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Waywrong, I have a few questions about your testing. 1) Were you the tank? 2) Could you tell me your team setup?
 * According to my experience in last night, a real player tank + 2 hero/henchman monks are very enough to tank Shino(assuming without more monks, pagaron, SS Necro) but a hero tank + 2 hero/henchman monks(assuming without more monks, pagaron, SS Necro) may not able to tank, in the later case, you will see the monk running out of en easily(even with blood ritual) then the hero tank may be killed by impossible odds sometimes. Hokit 21:30, 23 November 2006 (CST)
 * I tested it as a ranger stance tank, Lightning Reflexes, Whirling Defense, Escape, Interrupts, because my warrior is not at gate of madness yet. My team set up was dunkoro (prot/heal: healing hands), master of whispers (Blood/Curses:spiteful spirit), and zhed (fire:searing flames).  My henchmen I belive were mhenlo, khim, cynn and herta.  I tried this multiple times...if you pull back into the very corner of the shrine of lyssa, shiro will de-aggro, if any of you want to do this experiment.  I died twice before there was too much DP to handle, and I see no noticable decrease in his attack speed from when he is hexed with SS, or another hexes for that matter...I brought empathy, parasitic bond, and price of failure. --waywrong 06:54, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * Forget my build then. Hokit 02:05, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Hey, who is the one that added "For those looking to beat this mission with henchmen and heroes, consider bringing 1 monk hero specalized in Healing Prayers, 2 monk henchmen, a necromancer hero with Spiteful Spirit, an elementalist hero specalized in Fire Magic, the dervish henchman, someone equipped with wild strike/blow, and an 8th person with some damage or support skills. " to the article page?? Can the writer tell us more about this build?(eg, how to use, anything we need to aware) How many time have he used this build before??? And I wonder if the 3 hero slots are used(1 monk, 1 necro & 1 ele), is the editor expecting my ritualist/mesmer char or my monk/necro/ele hero to bring wild blow/strike??? Hokit 21:46, 23 November 2006 (CST)
 * I added that, but it was because someone tacked it on there without adhereing to the template of the page, it was ugly, so I kind of summarized it into one paragraph, check the history... --waywrong 06:54, 29 November 2006 (CST)

There is no way that Spiteful Spirit reduces Shiro's damage. UNLESS on the off chance that you mean by killing Shiro faster, you'll take less damage in the long run. Even then, Spoil Victor is far more efficient in destroying Shiro than Spiteful Spirit. If you have that, take it. For a warrior that uses a sword or axe, Vigorous Spirit will work nicely with Healing Seed to make them survive just that little bit longer. You will also need strict damage from outside sources, as Spoil Victor WILL NOT finish off Shiro. 2 monks are a must, 3 is a preference. I prefer a nice combo of one good healing monk, a blood ritual/spoil victor necro and a protection monk with aegis. Darkobra

I henched it with the following setup: The only major problem was Madness Titans, which will tear right through the heroes, henchmen and minions. You also need to be careful about pulling the patrols. This setup can probably be adapted for a Paragon, I'm not sure if it'll work for other professions. -- Gordon Ecker 06:03, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * Ritualist (16 communing, 13 spawning): Lightbringer's Gaze (rank 2), Shelter, Union, Signet of Creation, Displacement, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Resurrection Chant
 * Koss (12 tactics, 9 strength, 9 swordsmanship): Wild Blow (disabled except vs Shiro), "Watch Yourself!", Riposte, Shields Up (didn't help much), Gladiator's Defense, Soldier's Defense, Dolyak Signet, Resurrection Chant
 * Master of Whispers (16 death, 12 blood): Spoil Victor, Animate Shambling Horror, Animate Vampiric Horror, Animate Bone Fiend, Taste of Pain, Blood of the Master, Blood Ritual, Resurrection Chant
 * Zhed Shadowhoof (12 fire, 10 inspiration, 8 energy storage): Fire Attunement, Hex Eater Signet, Drain Enchantment, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Meteor Shower, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Resurrection Signet
 * Mhenlo
 * Kihm
 * Eve
 * Odurra

Hi guys, it seems that this mission is updated some days or weeks ago such that the enchanment received from the gods are changed.(before updated u have to /kneel to reveive the blessing, but now u have to capture) When I played this mission the day after the release of nightfall, the enchanments received are not helpful. But now the enchanment are very helpful(eg. + armor peneration, hp regen + 1), with these enchanemnts on your team Shiro cannot kill u easily, so killing shino is a lot easier now. I killed him easily without SS, SV, Ward, Price of Failure yesterday. I think we dun need to design a build to kill him now. The only thing u need is a MM to tank Shino when u wait for the blessing. Hokit 22:07, 3 December 2006 (CST)

I second Hokit's post. I just henched it last night. My outlay was nothing special didn't put too much thought into it. As long as you have a tank or two, a MM for diversions, an interrupter and some healing/protection it should be OK: Chilling Victory, Twin Moon Sweep, Pious Assault, Avatar of Balthazar, Heart of Holy Flame, Flame Trap, Apply Poison, Lightbringer's Gaze Wild Blow, Sever Artery, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust, "Watch Yourself!", Symbol of Wrath, Signet of Judgment, Resurrect Faintheartedness, Envenom Enchantments, Enfeebling Blood, Soul Feast, Animate Bone Fiend, Animate Bone Horror, Animate Flesh Golem, Death Nova Reversal of Fortune, Shield of Absorption, Protective Spirit, Mend Ailment, Mark of Protection, Smite Hex, Banish, Resurrect I was stupid enough to go ignore the advice given and try to kill Shiro first. Bad move and almost got wiped twice, each time when his health got low. Wised up and went straight for the Lich and completely ignored Shiro. As the article says, he doesn't do much damage to anyone until he's low on health. Captured all shrines. Killing all the Margonites reduced my DP, then ran back out to take out the leftover demons and Shiro'ken to reduce it further. Went back to kill Shiro with myself on 7% DP and main tank Koss on 20% DP. Even with that DP, all the bonuses from the shrines meant killing Shiro was a breeze. No deaths. Strongly recommend doing the bonus to make this mission easier. 203.17.238.253 20:33, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Player (D/R) Scythe/Mysticism/Wilderness
 * Koss (W/Mo) Sword/Tactics/Smite
 * Master of Whispers (N) Death/Curses
 * Tahlkora (Mo) Protection/Divine/Smite
 * Mhenlo
 * Cynn
 * Devona
 * Odurra
 * I know dude there are so many around that like to post crap that make no sence and give advices based on imagination, it is bad that they make you waste your time. The blessings are obviously the fastes way to go.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Has anyone else noticed a glitch, when u are trying to res the rest of ur party? As you approach the corpses, a demon spawns out of nowhere...if you dont aggro, it disappears, only to reappear as u get closer again? Anyone? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.54.131.134 (contribs).

Bonus
I believe article is wrong stating that you have to hold the shrines when Shiro dies to get the bonus. Quest menu (L button) listed the bonus as completed once I capped all the shrines. When I killed Shiro (Lich was killed in the very beginning) some of them already turned red and some turned neutral. Still, I got the bonus resulting in Masters reward.
 * I also noticed the same thing Lania Elderfire 10:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, I can confirm this also, I'm going to change the note in the article back. --waywrong 09:36, 23 November 2006 (CST)

I think you need at least 3 shrines for expert. I'm pretty sure the message said I captured 2 and I only got normal reward. Surreality 20:44, 3 December 2006 (CST)

If you go with hench you can capture al shrines if you move them on the minimap to the shrines. It works, i tested it, might take a while though...

Blackout?
The article states that skill disabling skills such as Blackout do not work. Can someone confirm this? I just beat Shiro with hero/hench and took Norgu with echo+blackout. Seemed like it was working ok for me (he used the skills less often). Of course, I also had SV, so maybe I just imagined it...
 * I'm pretty sure none of Shiro's skills cost energy to use, especially not the really evil two Battle Scars and Impossible Odds. --waywrong 19:52, 30 November 2006 (CST)


 * It doesnt work at all, has been tested several times. Check Shiro page and you will see that his skills are signets. I also tried to interupt, slow and disable his signets, did not work --A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

First post, hope i dont break anything
On the Prophecies page of Hell's Precipes its there probably on the Factions one too.

Shoudnt there be a spoiler warning on top of this page seeing as its untill you get the the gate and then at the hill that you find out that shiro and lich are also here in this game and that they are the ones that you have to defeat.

Wanderlust
I know the page say that no knockdown skills work on Shiro, but has anyone tried Wanderlust? Technically, its not the skill knocking him down, its the spirit. I would try, but I don't have a rit or a friend with a rit there. If it doesn't work, I suggest changing the statement to say that Shiro cannot be knocked down, to avoid any confusion. Break The Seal 19:11, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Wanderlust uses a skill called wanderlust whenever it "attacks", just like every other spirit that attacks, so I doubt this would work. --Notskorn 03:55, 10 December 2006 (CST)

For a Critical Defenses assassin, Critical Strike and Moebius Strike at Critical Strikes 13+ (and Shiro < 50% health, which is easy) are better than using Way of the Assassin. Shido 16:12, 16 December 2006 (CST)

It depends on the role you give your assassin : for inflicting damage, certainly. But Way of the Assassin warrants that Critical Defenses will always stay active. Without it, you're just taking chances, especially if the assassin you're using is a Hero, for whom you will be hard pressed controlling mana use ; and if it fails just when Shiro is in frenzy, the assassin is dead. In my opinion, the assassin is not there to kill Shiro (even if every bit helps), but to pin him down by giving him some (harsh) meat to grind. Shiro will just kill himself in time with any of the proper hexes.80.156.46.119 08:39, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Why Lich First?
I've done this mission on 2 characters, beaten it on the first try for both. And what I did was pull Shiro first. Shiro is MUCH easier to pull solo, and when he's dead the Lich is a sitting duck. Took about 30 minutes, because we didn't have an SV Necro. But afterward we pulled the Lich, stood behind the wall and nuked him. Took about 5 minutes. From what the article says, it seems it advises you fighting them both at once. I can't understand why. -- Macros† ( talk / contribs ) 09:58, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * Because the Lich is extremely easy to kill, and Shiro does minimal damage when he's at full health. After the Lich is dead, you go capture all the shrines to get Master's (with Shiro chasing you, being little more than a nuisance), then you kill Shiro.  I didn't have any problems until *after* I captured the shrines, and then only because I wasn't properly prepared to handle Shiro.
 * I dunno, it's probably just as easy either way, but I personally had no problems killing the Lich first. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 10:50, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * How in hell did you make Shiro to leave the lich???? he refuses to leave him everytime that I tried it.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Shiro stands a bit forward from the Lich when you first get to the temple. If you walk in the door, and move slowly forward until Shiro starts talking, he will come and not the Lich.  (It may be that you have to move forward a bit more, but Shiro definately aggros before the Lich does.)
 * just aggro both and have the tank keep Shiro busy, lock rest on lich...after that...even in HM...shiro doesn;t even really annoy you. Also as to why, Lich does immense damage and dies quickly, while shiro does no damage, till end, and dies slowly...keeping the liche alive is hard and he may actually may make the bonus difficult, especially in HM, while keeping shiro alive for bonus is easy, and he wont do more than annoy you while you ignore him.Killer Revan 21:13, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Is it possible to disable Shiro skills?
Using Simple Thievery or something similar? 75.35.5.62 02:10, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * No, people have tested with Blackout and he has used skills within seconds after doing so. I also believe that was mentioned in the article...he has a 400% recharge rate or something. - [[Image:Smoke_Trap.jpg|19px]] Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 22:14, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * My question is then, why is this written in the "Tips" section: "A simple build with a Mesmer carrying Psychic Distraction will completely shut down Shiro's damage dealing capabilities through eliminating Impossible Odds." ?? -Milcho 07:06, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * My only guess would be someone saying you can interrupt each use of impossible odds by using Psychic Distraction since the recharge is so short. However, it is a 1/2 cast and even the best mesmers can't get that most of the time.  Maybe on a hero but even then they don't spam the skill like I would like. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 14:34, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

The Lich Is very weak to water
I added that the Lich is weak to water. I used Shatterstone on him and it did 346 damage a cast (173 + 173, 3 seconds after hex). Water tears him apart. I always thought he had high armor against fire. You sure someone wasn't using winter? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.189.221.107 (contribs).
 * The lich being weak to fire is well known since prophecies (Hell's Precipice). Good find though. --8765 19:27, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Not only that, my assassin with shocking daggers deals around 80dmg per hit with Death Blossom. Not crits. I can't prove it with a screenie though - Snow White Tan  11:33, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Critical hits were 93 using Death Blossom. He's definitely weak against lightning damage - Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 10:22, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The Lich is simply in general a Low-AL monster. For some reason, he takes large amounts of damage from all sources. However, he also has a very large amount of health. My point is, however, that any source of damage that isn't armor-ignoring is going to seem to do a lot more than normal to the Lich. --Ruricu [[Image:SoD2.jpg|Shield of Deflection is purty!]] ( Talk • Contribs) 11:34, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Masters with Heroes and henchmen
I have written a guide to beating this mission with masters with Heroes/Henchmen. Link is here User:Entice789/Gate of Madness guide if you care =)  -  Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 00:55, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Necro bar
Take this on Olias:

Or if Necro'ing yourself, take SV and put PD on a Mesmer Hero. No Impossible Odds = easy battle. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 17:30, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I hope the interupts are for margs, torment creatures, etc., and not for shiro. Good positioning is all you need to defeat shiro. --8765 20:12, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Can someone explain how this build = No impossible odds? -- Alperuzi 06:50, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * As heroes can interrupt any skill whit more than the casting time of the interrupt skill, Olias can interrupt [Impossible Odds]. So this build= no Impossible Odds. 213.84.52.71 11:15, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You do realise that Impossible Odds is a skill, and so can't be interrupted by Power Drain? And that its recharge is 5secs, a fifth that of Power Drain? RossMM 19:27, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think this is a good Necro skill bar, but I do have to point out your flaws here. Look at the other three interrupts in the bar.  They work on any skill, not just spells. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 22:01, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That skill bar would be much more useful split up across a necro hero and a mesmer hero. Flesh out Olias as a minion master with Blood Ritual - you got an army of undeath *and* a battery in a single hero.  Set up Norgu with high Fast Casting and he'll be able to interrupt pretty much anything; stack Empathy/Backfire on top of Spoil Victor and you can sit back and watch everything commit suicide as they try to kill the minion army.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:29, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

Blessing of the 5 Gods
Is there a page that shows the blessings the god things give you? just curious. -Thefez
 * How about Blessings? :D Perhaps that should be linked in the article.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 00:37, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Saving the sarcasm, I just did the mission and it seemed like it was 2 blessings per Avatar (I think). The list you are providing has all the blessings which is much more than provided in the mission.  I believe that the top two blessings for each Avatar are the ones used though. --RabiesTurtle 15:21, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * All the blessings in the article are given for capturing the shrines. Most of the blessings are attribute point bonuses for particular characters, only some of them will apply to your particular character  (For instance, if playing a warrior/ranger, you would get the balthazar attributes bonus and melandry attributes bonus, while a rit/monk would get the grenth ritualist attribute bonus and dwayna monk attribute bonus.).  12.182.100.224 22:53, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

THIS MISSION SUCKS ITS TO HARD!!!!!

Babysitting Shiro
You may easily park/babysit Shiro with a warrior spamming and a healing monk. I placed Koss' flag at the door and set Koss to "Fight". Then I pulled Shiro and let Koss take him over. I placed Tahlkoras flag near Koss, so that she was able to heal Koss but didn't take any damage from Shiro. Once Koss, Tahlkora and Shiro are set up this way, the remaining party may go away since a single monk will outheal Shiro's damage forever (while Shiro is at full health). The remaining six people are now free to kill the Lich and capture the five shrines without any pressure.

For killing Shiro: we used two necromancer heroes using and, Shiro died within seconds (I didn't watch the clock, but the fight took less than 10 seconds after we set Olias and the Master of Whispers from "Passive" to "Fight"). --Lje 12:21, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Shiro again
Do not feel disheartened if you do not have any of the suggested skills supposedly required to kill Shiro. Shiro can be beaten by any competent team using sound tactics. The one I suggested (battling at the door) works well. Once Shiro is at less than 30% damage (not that difficult to achieve), he'll just stay where he is, which should very likely be the doorstep. The only things you now need are:
 * a really good tank (many professions can achieve that), which mostly mean any way to avoid attacks. Stances, Spells, anything goes, as long as you can ensure that you can maintain this for a long time. The Critical Assassin (which I suggested too) is only one of many ways to go. This tank purpose is to sustain Shiro's attacks. He'll be backed with the group healers. In the several successful attempts I made, Shiro is just unable to drop the tank's bar below 60%.
 * some good hexes (there are tons around, and Spiteful Spirit is only one of many) that make good use of Shiro amazing attack rate when he is in his impossible odds stance. Actually, even if you don't have this, plain patience and a good old poison or hex degen will eventually win the fight.
 * patience: yes, if you don't have any hex like Spitefull Spirit which deals damage to Shiro everytime he attacks, the fight will be long. Still, it won't be very dangerous.

And if you feel you're losing your grasp on the fight, don't be shy : run away... Better have another try than be dead.

Also note that Shiro has no means of healing himself except normal recovery and battle scars. This means that hit and run tactics can succeed where anything else fails. In particular, this means that if you break the fight at any point, you're not losing much unless you wait ages before reengaging. I experienced this the last time I tried, my assassin arriving at Shiro with -60%... got dead some more time against Shiro, and I had to break the fight several times, but that tactic nevertheless worked well. 80.156.46.119 04:43, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Just a different perspective... Bringing my third character through -- a warrior. My first was my ranger; second my necro. Both other times I took out Shiro first -- not really that hard either time. Then got the blessings and finally took out the Lich. This time, I went for the Lich. While I and two others pounded away to little avail on the Lich, Shiro proceeded to destroy the rest of the party. Shiro just ignored everyone else and killed all three monks in like 45 seconds. As I was trying to pull everyone back, Shiro finished off Olias and almost got Zed. The Lich was still about 33% health AND yes I was using a fire ele. I tried rez but quickly gave up as Shiro ignored me and simply killed whoever was rezzed. Maybe I just got lucky my other two times through. Again, just a different perspective. I just hate getting that far and now have to do it again.

I dont think you need tanks or anything advanced realy.. just get several air eles spamming lightning javelin and he shouldnt be able to get an attack off EVER (especiallly if he is under attack slowdowns) just keep spammeing them and watch his health steadily go down Tarlok 16:14, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Diversion ?
Has anyone tried Diversion on Shiro? Strictly speaking, this is not a disabling skill, it lengthens recycle times, and his skills do have recycle times. I'm guessing he's immune to it, too. But if not, it would substantially reduce his use of Battle Scars and Impossible Odds, right? Perko 02:42, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, it is a disabling skill, and no, it doesn't work. =\ Shido 15:00, 19 February 2007 (CST)

forget shiro... lich?


but the lich?!? i managed to keep him trapped behind an alter trying to kill a hero while i capped 3 shrines but he keeps running back :/

is there anyway to trap him or something so that i can cap the rest of the shrines with the henchies while having no interuption from the lich....

also: a way that i found to kill shiro is to keep him trapped at the door, by having the henchies flagged a while back and just keep giving him conditions and damage. it takes a while but kiting works. i did it with my ranger with RtW + Burning Arrow and Hunter's shot.


 * You are missing the point of killing the lich though. He dies VERY quickly, yet does huge damage. Shiro dies VERY slowly, yet does little damage (at full health anyhow). Therefore, you kill the lich is several seconds, then move to cap shrines with wimpy Shiro following you. He doesnt do much damage until he starts to lose health and get attacked, so don't worry about him. Soulcatcher 12:40, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Immunity to Impossible Odds
I earlier did the final mission in factions with my Elementalist and found I could reduce Shiro's damage enough to stand and tank him. Best of all I found I seemed to be totally immune to the almighty team killer that is Impossible Odds. Tanking like this meant Shiro took a lot of damage from the typical Spoil Victor, Empathy etc. from being able to actual hit a target with his Impossible Odds attacks. Anyone else like to test and make sure I wasn't mistaken? Keys skills are to maintain. Mantra of Earth, Stone Striker and Stoneflesh Aura. If this is true we now know that Impossible Odds always results in a critical attack. --SK  15:50, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Just to clear something up: Where Stoneflesh Aura says you are "immune to critical attacks," that simply means that any attack against you that would normally result in a crit will not deal the extra crit damage, but it will still hit you as a normal attack. The normal damage (which is never more than ~30) is further reduced by Stoneflesh Aura and Mantra of Earth, which is why you don't appear to be taking any damage - it's not that you're completely immune to all of Shiro's attacks due to Stoneflesh Aura's immunity to crits.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 18:23, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Which is what I was saying. Impossible Odds was showing 0 figures.  I tested this by going into Imperial Sanctum on my own (Mhenlo is always in this mission). I was taking low damage from Shiro as long as I maintained the three skills. Sadly on my own I cannot create the sort of damage to get Shiro to start using his Impossible Odds skill. The most important thing about this find though is that it enables someone to tank Shiro. Spoil Victor, Empathy, Spiteful Spirit and skills alike arnt very effective if Shiro has nothing to hit. --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]]  02:55, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Right, I wasn't questioning the effectiveness of your strategy, I was just questioning your conclusion that "Impossible Odds always results in a critical attack". &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 11:30, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Word usage (GW:1RV issue)
I modified Mikkel's tip that Shiro can be easily neutered... to Shiro can be easily neutralized... with the reason "improper word choice". To "neuter" something is to castrate it, and it is impossible to perform that act within Guild Wars. Thus, Mikkel's usage of the word "neuter" is obviously incorrect, and it should be replaced with a more proper word. &mdash;Dr Ishmael (talk|contribs) 12:11, 11 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I have explained the meaning of the word neuter on Mikkel's talk page. I will correct the article now.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 13:10, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

See my talk page for the conclusion to this. To sum it up: No, this is not an RV1 issue as Dr Ishmael didn't revert anything, and yes, "neutered" is correct. mikkel 14:56, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * While technically used correctly, I think we can all agree that "neuter" has a certain connotation and mental image that is unnecessary and distracting in a walkthrough article. Hashmir 22:04, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

LB Gaze
While we were capping the shrines, Shiro was attacking us too. I used LB gaze on the executioner's, and AoE from my LB rank hit Shiro too. It might have been that I saw the numbers above his head, and it was really from an executioner, but I think it just can't be used directly.


 * Lightbringer's Gaze can only target a "demonic servant of Abaddon", but the splash damage from it is unrestricted. Step outside the Chantry of Secrets and use it there, where you have one Margonite in a group of Kournans - you'll see plenty of splash damage.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 20:57, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * In case you are interested, Lightbringers gaze doesnt not seem to work with arcane echo. I am a mesmer, I know how to use mes skills, and it works with echo, but not arcane.....anyone else notice this? Domina Te68.54.131.134 16:16, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's because LB Gaze is a Skill, not a Spell - Arcane Echo only copies Spells, but Echo will copy anything. You can copy Echo with Arcane Echo, though, and have 3 copies of LB Gaze on your bar (of course, with the 15 second recharge on LB Gaze, it's not all that useful).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 11:39, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Wow, I can't believe Koss did it
Just did this mission with: me as heal monk, Dunkoro as healer, Tahlkora as prot monk, Cynn, Eve, Paragon henchman, a below-average human nuker, and Koss.

We rushed the Lich and killed him, then went back to doorway. Koss used 3 skills the entire battle: wild blow, riposte, and deadly riposte. He managed to hold arggo 95% of the time, and died once, but was quickly ressed. The last 10% was very hard, but koss just kept spamming rip-deadly rip, and we managed to defeat him. The only blocking spell I had all game was aegis. I had no hexes and no blindness.

We did not get any of the shrines.

Pretty cool, huh? (User:Ryudo) April 16,2007


 * Umm.... Want a cookie? Soulcatcher 12:27, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Soul, if you aren't going to contribute anything useful... you might just want to resist clicking that "edit" button for the sake of the rest of us.
 * Thanks for your contribution Ryudo. I haven't ever put Riposte and Deadly Riposte on my Koss before, but I will try that out when I get my last two characters through there. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 13:20, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah I started using Koss to tank Shiro, it was quite easy. For defense, he had Glad's Defense, Shield Stance, and Soldier's Defense (used with "Watch Yourself!") and he tanked Shiro just fine, no problems. I had either MoW or Olias with SV and Empathy and probably Sousuke nuking for my third hero, had Eve for BRs and Sogolon, Mhenlo, and Kihm for healing and support. Got it done no problems. Just flag Koss by the entrance to the temple, when Shiro ran at all of us (I found Riposting Shadows to be more a reason he came to us) I just ran back, flagged the other heroes/henchmen back a ways if they didn't run with me, and Shiro ran back to the temple and Koss regained aggro. Koss held his own until we ran back and smacked Shiro up some more. At about 40% health, he stayed on Koss and tried his Impossible Odds trick which makes Spoil Victor really shine. It's not a necessary skill, we could have wanded Shiro to death. I've also found that Shiro (and many AI) runs from Sandstorm (used by Herta) more than he did from Meteor Shower or Searing Heat, so I stayed away from using Sandstorm. gg! --Gravemind 17:53, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

Shrine capping bug
Just did the mission and i was dead when Melandru's shrine was captured and didn't get the bonuses from capping the shrine (didn't have it for the rest of the mission even after i was resurrected). I was alive for the rest and got the bonuses just fine. I'll wait to see if anyone can tell me something I don't know before i mark it as a bug. --Colonel Popcorn 23:06, 26 April 2007 (CDT)


 * No one has said anything to the contrary and I tested again, purposely dying as a shrine finished capping, and did not get the bonus so I have marked it as a bug in the main article. In this screenshot my henches had already resurrected me by the time I took the screenshot, but you can see the Balthazar shrine just finished capping yet I do not have the Balthazar blessings (I do have the Melandru ones because I did not die when it was capped) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Colonel Popcorn (contribs).


 * In the ss it says, "You have rallied 2 of 5 god avatars," so you did still get credit for it, even though you didn't receive the blessings. You should probably clarify that in the bug note.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:50, 5 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Good thinking. That is what I meant, but now that you bring it up I can see how a misunderstanding could occur. Fixed. --Colonel Popcorn 01:16, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

Psychic Distraction
How, exactly, will Psychic Distraction nullify out Impossible Odds if Shiro's skills can't be disabled, and with the estimated 1 second recharge vs Distraction's 2...? --Gimmethegepgun 21:07, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Tough to find players
As you already probabilly know it may be fairly difficult finding a group with the skill to do the mission itself. There are plenty of dervs around, the group I beat it with consisted if four dervs, one nuker, a tank, and a couple of monk heros. I have herd many times that a group with six good dervs and two monk heros also will have a pretty good chance of getting masters along with the mission. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kappakappa (contribs).

Hard Mode made just a little easier
Recently I have done Hard Mode for Gate of Madness, I never found the mission that diffcult, it was only when I had to face Shiro and the Lich when things got complicated. The Lich is much more tough in Hard Mode, and simply charging in and killing him asap isn't a real plan you can use here like in Normal Mode. Aside from the Lich being more aggressive, having Shiro there even at full health (and generally being less of a threat than when he's near death) still is enough trouble to get everyone killed. Stated before in discussion there was talk of being able to lure the Lich away from Shrio, I was able to do it in Hard Mode, killing the Lich in under 5 minutes, taking minimal damage.

To lure the Lich a ranger does well, but any class will do if you're careful enough. A ranger does well since they have many blocking stances that can block projectiles. Anyway, leave everyone outside and let the ranger approach the corridor, once the Lich and Shiro start talking wait where you are, while talking you'll notice they appear as green dots on your compass, wait until they turn red. Hug the right wall as tight as you can and move VERY slowly forward, always keeping an eye on the Lich on either your compass or holding Ctrl to watch his name if it moves, once he starts moving wait where you are for him. He can be tricky to get to follow you since he doesn't like giving chase for very long, but keep him on the edge of your aggro bubble and he should stay with you. Lure him till you're at the door and then take cover behind it, the Lich will then try and hit you with a ranged attack which will be obstructed by the doorway. Now bring your nuker, SS and or SV to your position, make sure if your nuker is a hero to disable any AoE spells that would make the Lich runaway. The beauty of this is he will not be able to damage you for much, if you lured him right, his Life Vortex skill will be out of reach so he wont heal himself or hurt you at all. The only thing he can do is use Hunger of the Lich which is easily healed by a single monk from the backline. After the Lich is dead you're left with Shiro, capping the shrines is still risky with Shiro around but is do-able now. After that it's standard tactics to deal with Shiro.

I know it says you can lure the Lich in the main article but luring both the Lich and Shiro at he same time is much more difficult to do, Shiro also has a tendancy to not run all the way back to the center once you break aggro, so I believe this method should get some recognition as you never have to disturb him.

Doing it this way makes it very possible with a hero and henchmen team even on Hard Mode, which I did, and even after completing it I noticed I forgot to have my Lightbringer title equipped. (Sorry I can't post screen shots of the Lich actually being lured away but if someone could test it, I'm sure you'll find this works 100%)

If you have a ritulist, Shiro hates Shadow Song spirit and can often be locked up fighting this spirit.
 * an alliance ele and i did it and here are the notes... 1: you do not need to remove a stance to kill shiro...my fault for forgetting it though.  we had to hex and use "You're All Alone", and i necrosis spammed, but it worked too... 2:  klling the liche is easy even if you have to tank shiro while doing it...seperating them is not necessary to beat the liche, just lock heros on liche... 3:  after a disaster in one bonus room (one where you can lose shiro aggro..rightmost) we killed all bonus enemies and capped all shrines without having to pay the least bit of attention to shiro. 4: if you choose to use necrosis and slowdown...dont let him actually attack...if you that is 360 life steal + dmg...even a tank cant take that damage...we kinda let him come to me and run away without actually hitting me most of the time until we died.  anyway...hope that helpsKiller Revan 21:03, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Just to add a 'different' approach. Did this in HM w H/H. Took Koss (wild blow, riposte, deadly riposte, ur alone, rez...something else; Nivia as SS; Olias as MM w/death nova (but it was turned off most of the time)+ aegis/prot spirit; cynn, herta; both healers; I'm Ranger w/BHA +LB (lvl 10) + apply posion + rebirth + sav shot + needle. Getting to lich/shiro just took some easy pulling. Followed the suggested map. Olias had 10 minions most of time (except for after the Pain Titans but they served the purpose -- no one died).  Closing the portals worked from right to left; again, using the minions to body block.  Only problem really was the last portal, couple hench got blocked by the titans when we took out the wraiths...I pulled back...used rebirth...regened..went back killed the other wraith and ran....  Once got to Shiro/Lich actually tried to carefully pull the Lich.  Had team set up outside the doorway; w/about 6 or 8 minions.  But, pulled them both AND Shiro just kept coming. So, we killed him. YEP it really was that easy. SS, posion, Koss using wb + ur alone and, of course cynn/herta. I think the minions may have confused the AI. Anyway, no one really took any damage until the very end when Shiro ran back through the doorway and Koss ran out of the wards...they both died at the same time. Rezed Koss and then worked way around counterclockwise for the bonus. Only issue was as we went around Lich was whacking away at us. Again, the minions served as a distraction. Still, the Lich took out Olias once and then decided he did not like cynn. Think he must have killed her 3 or 4 times but other than the minor annoyance, he was really not a problem. Cleared the two on the right; then pulled away far enough to let everyone regen. Then took out the ones on the left. At the end, cynn was dead when we killed the Lich but had 4/6 minions + BHA...he never got off a skill once it was time to kill him. About 40-50 minutes I guess; I really took my time; giving the ele hench enough time to regen between mobs. This makes the 4th time I've done this mission -- 1st time in HM -- and think taking out Shiro first was by far the easiest. 15 Nov 07... Eldest Archer

Just did the mission as well (last one for I'm Very Important :D), I expected it would be very hard especially shiro, brought wild blow on my warrior (forgot spoil victor and all those other anti shiro skills ppl are talking about). Didn't have any problems untill shiro. He came instead of the lich, blocked him and killed him (took some time but it worked). The liche is however a pain when working on the five shrines, I think he dealt like 300 damage with wand attacks and in the end we only had like six people left (forgot to switch out ress signets for hard rezz), flagging the hero/hench behind one of those shrine thingies I was the only one that could take damage and it didn't take long before he died. Build was 1W (wildblow and some other skillz that I didn't use on shiro), 1N/Rt (curses (SS) and channeling), 1N/Rt (MM and restoration), 1E/Mo (fire nuker and extinguish), Mhenlo, Khim, Herta, Cynn Shai Meliamne 21:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Solo?
Is it actually possible to solo this? I've seen people ad for it for insane amounts of money. Most people shoot them down as scammers and I don't see how it is possible to solo. Someone know if it is soloable and how or if it is plain impossible to solo? Morgan Fairweather 02:07, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The advertisers for running the mission are not going solo...they are doing the mission with Heros and Henchmen. They charge like 20k for 1 or 2 customers since the rest of the party slots are filled.   The typical build I have seen is 2 Necros, 2 Elementalists, and 2 Monks.  Anything beyond that is the professions of their customers.  One Necro is usually a MM, but you can be sure Spoil Victor and/or Spiteful Spirit are equipped among the two necros.  The Elementalists are bascially high Fire damage or Water damage.  The Monks are Henchmen monks. ImperialMike 22:12, 4 June 2007 (CDT)


 * These people I've seen advertising for it are running it without hench and heroes. Just to explain more. Morgan Fairweather 00:47, 5 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, I've seen people do it using only themself and heroes. She was a warrior (set to deal damage, no tanking stances/skills), two monks, and an ele I think (its been a long time). One monk brought with it Spoil Victor and the other Spiteful Spirit. The ele was your typical FotM Searing Flames ele. -- Mah sa  08:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I made it to portals with 600/Smite, then got bored and signed off. Don't know if it's possible to finish.

ranger
How do you do this as a ranger? Morgan Fairweather 21:00, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Do lots of damage?
 * Don't use conditions on shiro when he's low on health. You can defeat shiro (and the rest of the mission) basically doing nothing. Let your heros and hench do all the work. --8765 21:15, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Needling Shot is nice once he's below 50%. RossMM 19:30, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Assuming you have BiP... and a zealous... --Gimmethegepgun 19:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yup, energy is a pain. If you can get to 13 expertise then you can spam this for quite a reasonable length of time, or you can take some sort of energy management like Marksman's Wager (which unfortunately takes up an elite). But that said it's better than nothing when facing Shiro, and once you're out of energy you can just fall back on auto-attacks. RossMM 19:52, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Prepared Shot would also be a good choice for energy management so long as you're packing a preparation. RossMM 19:59, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

All great pointers, thanks a bunch. :) I will try it out and post what works for me. Shiro was a bit of a pain with my usual build that I don't have problems with ever. Morgan Fairweather 00:12, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

In other words, bring something that deals damage to shiro. Wow! Wasn't that so hard? Aren't you proud of your achievement of defeating shiro? -.- --8765 20:41, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * GW:NPA. Be nice. &mdash;Tanaric 23:42, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You may want to read the Needling Shot page before being so rude, as it works differently to most attacks and so is very useful against a high-armour target like Shiro. RossMM 08:06, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I find it funny that one takes a sarcastic comment and immediately turns it into a personal attack directed at oneself. Even better when it's misinterpreted. This whole article makes it seem that defeating shiro is some big accomplishment. --8765 13:47, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The sarcasm was directed at the user, you basically were calling him a dumbass. Your comments to shame users for asking questions and to degrade one's feeling of accomplishment are not useful nor needed. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 15:23, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you had stopped before the last sentence, Aren't you proud of your achievement of defeating shiro?, I would've called it sarcasm, but that last bit is pretty obviously personal.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:54, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You've no reason to be so rude. What did I ever do to you? If you don't want to answer a question or have nothing constructive to say, keep your negativity and disrespect to yourself because it is not welcome. I do not appreciate your rude behavior and neither does anyone else. And just so you know, it is not so easy to defeat Shiro. I just wanted some input to make the mission that much more successful. And for the record, I do not need to explain myself to a snide person like yourself. Morgan Fairweather 22:07, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Tips for Defeating Shiro Section
I think this section should be organized by profession since people are going to be doing this mission with H/H. It would make more sense to have the player choose whichever heros they want, then come to this guide and find the tips for each respective hero class. Maybe something like this: ==Tips for Defeating Shiro== ===War=== *tip1 *tip2 ===Ele=== *tip1 etc --8765 13:23, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Defeat the Lich at the end easily with … a bug?
After defeating Shiro with the tips out of the door, I cross the lich and go directly on the Abaddon Shrine. And what’s up? The Lich move further than normally on the other side of the shrine ! So I go back and the Lich was ‘captured’ or fall in admiration with the shrine of Abaddon: so I do the bonus with the 5 other shrine without Lich behind me!! But at the end, when I wanted to hit the Lich, he didn’t move anymore and was let killed!! So good... I don’t know if it’s working with Shiro also. --Sylf Angel 01:00, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

Endgame setup changed?
I can remember my Nightfall runnings, ending in killing the lich and keeping Shiro off aggro. Strangely enough, I've noticed when trying to do this mission again this night, that Shiro stands just behind the dooway, and starts aggroing ("Taste the double-blade of the torment!" - the German version of it ;)) as soon as I moved in the double-aggro distance. I've tested this several times - each time I got in about spirit-range distance, he ran towards me an activated battle scars. Any ideas, why? Jorx 19:53, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Shiro can be knocked down?
Someone put it on the Shiro page and I'm wondering if it's true. The Hobo 21:54, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, it is. I've seen it. Don't know what skills though. I'm pretty sure I knocked him down with Savage Shot. Can't be too sure as it's been awhile but I do know he can be knocked down. Morgan Fairweather 00:04, 24 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Um, Savage Shot isn't a knockdown - it's an interrupt. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:09, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The interrupt animation makes the character "stagger". Maybe that was it? The Hobo 01:09, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Could have been. Can't remember. Oh, well. But he can be knocked down, that's what is important. Morgan Fairweather 15:48, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you could KD him, he'd be one of the easiest bosses in the game. P A R A S I T I C 14:59, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I hit Shiro with Earth Shaker several times, and he wasn't knocked down even once. 74.138.78.214 02:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I kept using Dragon's Stomp on him, and he was never KDed. User:kiega132456789ooo 13 May 2008

My henching guide.
I've henched this 10 times all Masters and henched it for people... well I didn't count that >_>. Enjoy and tell me if it works or not for you. Does for me all the time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by NanoWarrior (contribs).
 * You shouldn't be linking to a sandbox page - it looks like the content in that page has already been cleared out. Make a page in your userspace instead, User:NanoWarrior/Gate of Madness hench team build or something.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 09:18, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Heh wrong link. Lol I hand typed it so it was wrong. It's fixed now but that's my own personal way of henching Gate of Madness on my sandbox.

Killed Shiro with a friend and our Heroes
After two tries without success, we finally did it on the third and killed Shiro in twenty seconds with this party:

1) Paragon aka. my friend (support build)

2) Earth Elementalist (me, using modified earth tank build)

3) Dunkoro 1(Healer's Boon)

4) Dunkoro 2(Healer's Boon)

5) Acolyte Sousuke (Searing Flames build)

6) Olias (SS build, with Faintheartedness to slow down Shiro's attacks)

7) Melonni 1 (Avatar of Lyssa for massive damage)

8) Melonni 2 (Convicted Wounder build to cause bleeding)

As somebody has mentioned, conditions and hexes are the key! There's no need to get two necros or even Spoil Victor though. However, one last point to note: after capping the shrines don't hang around inside the temple. Instead run outside the gate and let Shiro run back. Take this time to recover and have a breather and then position your heroes so they would not be hit too badly by his Impossible Odds. Good luck! --Raiser Sunspurn 09:14, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * If you don't mind, let me make some suggestions to improve that build for future use. First off, Searing Flames doesn't work so hot with Shiro once he is low health.  Impossible odds transfers conditions to his targets, so you are putting burning on your own guys as well as making it harder to trigger the actual damage from the spell.  Same goes for the bleeding with one of those Melonnis, and the other using Avatar of Lyssa wasn't dealing the damage you thought it was because it triggers on attacks while target is activating skills... Shiro's are basically instant activation. You don't need an Earth tank.  The way to keep from getting damage from Shiro is by blocking his attacks to start with.  Blindness doesn't work since it is a condition, and you have to be careful about hexes because Impossible Odds also removes one hex each time it is implemented.  What you are left with are stances and enchantments which cause blocking.  Aegis works decently for multiple targets, Soldier's Defense works well in combination with "Watch Yourself!", and I have even done it with my Assassin using Critical Defenses.  With the combination of Aegis and one of the 75% block rate skills, you don't take really any damage at all.  Now how do you cause the damage yourself?  Spoil Victor is the obvious choice, but Spiteful Spirit, Empathy, and even Price of Failure can work.  Oh, and Faintheartedness is not a good idea when trying to deal damage based on attacks by the target.  You could try to slip in a Reckless Haste instead, but mainly just block the attacks.  The trick to hexes is to ensure you are covering your damage hex.  The way I do this is by disabling all the skills on that particular hero.  Instead, force him to cast SV (or other dmg skill) right as Shiro activates Impossible Odds and quickly cover it with Parasitic Bond or another quick cast/recharge spell.  Whenever you see Impossible Odds again, recast the cover.  Using this blocking and damage technique, Shiro becomes easy.
 * Overall I use Dunkoro with a protection build (Aegis, PS, SoA, RoF, GoLE, etc), Olias (SV), Koss (Watch Yourself, Soldier's Defense, Wild Blow), Mhenlo, Eve, Devona, and Gehraz. The two hench tanks might bite the dust towards the end of Shiro, but disable your rez skills so they can focus on Shiro and not the fallen.  If you are smart in your technique and can manage Olias decently, this type of build works great for any of your characters for the entire mission. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 12:32, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Master's with Heroes and Hench...
...is easy and totally possible. And requires no special Elite Skills to fight Shiro or the Lich. Seriously. I ran this:

Gaze of Fury was to deal with Arm of Insanity's QZ and Shiro'ken Ritualist.

Koss ran a Tactical Axe build specializing in Deep Wound:

Dunkoro was doing Glimmer:

And Tahlkora was doing PnH!! because I was feeling bold:

Henchmen were Kihm, Cynn, Sogolon, and Eve. As you can see, I've got a very low overall damage output, only one Tank, and only one Hard Rez. And all my Builds have at best, Average builds with easy-to-cap Elites. Nothing special.

The Trick, I found, was to Distract Shiro...not by running away from him all the time, but rather, giving him someone to beat on. I planted Koss and Tahlkora right in the middle of the Shrines area; Shiro stayed on Koss, Tahlkora healed him, and the rest of the party and I killed the Lich. Then we ran around and capped all the Shrines easily. I found that Shiro never broke aggro to chase us unless we attacked him. I recalled Koss and Tahlkora after doing all shrines and we went back to "The Door" to engage Shiro safely. Koss tanked, Riposting Shadows would always lead Shiro back to Koss because of aggro...Even without a high Damage output, all those Blessings made the fight easy, and Impossible Odds was no match for Needling Shot. No-one even died. Pwn't Shiro.

One key thing: Battle Scars. To avoid this killing Koss, I switched his weapon to a Sword instead of an axe. He could still attack and keep up WY/Bonetti's, but dealt minimal damage.

So, what does this say? SS, Spoil Victor, Empathy, etc. are overkill ;p (T/C) 05:42, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I've never had problems with Shiro, now the Lich, wtf. His attacks were dealing 100-140 to my Warrior. At least he goes down fairly quickly, but bajesus. --Kale Ironfist 06:14, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I had the same experience, I did Hell's Precipice in HM and was fighting the Lich and he chucks a fireball that smacks my war for around 120 damage. He made me feel small. --Blue.rellik 06:28, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Lich *does* follow into shrines
The tip that "the Lich does not follow you up into the shrines" is wrong. I just attempted the mission with heroes and henchmen, and this is the result. Maybe his behavior was changed since the tip was written. Please remove or alter the tip in the article to reflect this.



I don't know how to make a reasonable-sized thumb/preview that is aligned on the left margin... sorry. M47715c00l 00:52, 15 September 2007 (CDT)


 * The Lich Won't follow you if you flag BEHIND the shrine (at the corners of the room).


 * AND.. it seems only the shrines of Lyssa (NE) and Grenth (N) are refuges where the Lich and Shiro will leave you alone (if you flag behind the shrine). The thumbnail shows the team in Dwyna's shrine (SW). No de-aggro there in my experienceOutback 22:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Confused...
I tried soloing with hero/henchmen because there was not too many people in the outpost. After I closed the five portals and was heading into the temple...I saw Shiro and the Lich and they said something about well good thing you survived so you can fight us, or something, and then they both come up to the gate and attack me. I defeat the Lich relatively easy, but Shiro is so hard, and I keep having to run up and run back because I die so fast and my henchmen are out of his aggro range (so they don't die too fast either). This is my first time doing this mission. Anyways, after dying multiple times (DP %60 for a while) he gets to about half or a little less health and I can't seem to hurt him after that. I'm debating whether to quit or commit suicide when he gets stuck just a bit beyond the gate of the temple (sort of in the area where I kept having to run forward and aggro him). Anyways, he was using his skills, but I wasn't taking any damage (and neither was my team), and it still took a while to beat him, but I mean, I wasn't getting hurt so I just kept spamming skills. Oh, and when this happened, my henchmen and heros (except for Zhed and Tahlk)were not attacking as well. I had a team of myself as a fire ele, Zhed, Tahlkora, Olias, Odurra, Mhenlo, Devona and Khim.

When I finally killed him, the cutscene started and I got the Standard award. But I hadn't activated the shrines that Guild Wiki said was one of the objectives--I don't remember even seeing that obj come up. Has this happened to anyone? Maybe it was a bug? I'm really sorry I didn't capture screenshots--I don't actually know how to do that -_-; but it really did happen. Maybe a bug or something. --Fayree 7:22, 04 October 07


 * It's not a bug, capturing the shrines is the bonus objective and isn't required to complete the mission.
 * You take screenshots with the key on your keyboard that says "Print Screen" (or maybe "PntScrn" or something). &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I expected Shiro to be a challenge, he's really not.
What you need to take him out is a Ranger with Ignite Arrows(and ideally some sort of attack speed booster), some AoE Elems and a Minion Master(ideally with Flesh Golem).

As soon as you reach the area with the shrines, gang up on the Lich and beat him down, this may cost you a monk or something because of Shiro, but just resurrect and then run. Charge in circles for a while to get a bit of Distance and head into Dwayna's Shrine, clearing it out while Shiro is on your heels. This is where the MM comes in handy, if no players are beating him, he seems to prefer the minions, and so you can cap the shrine and run like hell before he gets through the minions. Repeat this on the other shrines in the order of Grenth, Lyssa, Melandru and finally Balthazar(the order is due to how tough the guardians are, you'll want to beat down the weaker and faster-slaughtered guardians first for minions and blessings so you can deal with the tougher ones faster.).

Now for Shiro. Some people don't know it, but the "Aaaaaa! Run!"-reflex from AoE spells on a creature is also triggered by a lot of AoE attacks in rapid succesion. Like standing next to a creature that's being spammed with healing spells while the caster is enchanted with Zealot's Fire, or being repeatedly whacked with Ignited arrows, Lightning Reflexes or similar attack speed boosters will speed up how fast you can fire them, and thereby how fast you trigger the reflex.

Shiro is going to carve up your minions pretty fast, but since he has no corpse exploiting skills, a Necro can just keep making a Flesh Golem over and over. He won't be attacking much, though, since the mass of AoE spells and Ignited arrows will generally keep him running in circles like a headless chicken. It's also helpful to fight him up in one of the shrine chambers(for example the last shrine you take would be an ideal candidate.) since that means he'll occasionally flee into a corner and take several AoE hits before he sorts himself out.PurpleXVI 09:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, yeah, and I was playing a Ranger, bringing Vekk(Fire for this, but usually Water with Maelstrom), Zhed(Fire) and Olias(MM) as heroes. Kihm, Mhenlo, Odurra and Herta as henchies. Generally also a pretty effective setup for the Realm of Torment in general.PurpleXVI 09:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Assassin Builds
Just done this with my Assa and will quickly share the build since it's too time consuming to get infos from his much text here. Actually I think Wild Blow is not needed because Wild Strike does the same +dmg +recharges faster, but pick-up-groups normally want you to take the warrior skill too *sigh* So if your team isn't like that then your second profession is up to you, as well as the additional skill. Keep the two enchantments up all time in fights (if no one strips them then they should stay active due to the many critical strikes you cause). When facing Shiro do the attack order 2-5 again and again, so you use Wild Strike often. For other enemies you can spam 4 and 5 if possible. Attributes go all on Dagger Mastery and Critical Strikes. You can add your own working build here to help clueless people that are just quickly looking for something working.--Birchwooda Treehug 09:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Warrior Builds
The build I always liked to use to survive Shiro's wrath. It sure is no damage dealer build, more a tank with little damage output and deep wound to reduce the enemy's health. Attributes on Strength, Tactics and Axe Mastery as you want. Equally spread works good. For a sword build you need to replace #4 and #5 with something like Deadly Riposte etc. Keep up Auspicious Parry which is pretty easy since it just needs 1 adrenaline. With the adre you get out of it you can keep up Watch Yourself (more for party members in range than yourself). You can add your own working warrior builds here too --Birchwooda Treehug 10:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Shiro and Lich Tactic
I had a strange victory against Shiro and the Lich when I did this mission a few minutes ago. At first encounter, my party was completely slaughtered except for Dunkoro, who I was using for a Healing Monk. I sent him in slowing and revived one person at a time(because Shiro would attack me during the res), and thats when I noticed that the Lich was not attacking. I thought this was great, because once I got my party ressed I could focus on one at a time. When I had all 3 of my heroes ressed, Kihm, and myself ressurected, I thought I would have to face him, because my other 3 henchmen were too far away to res. Using a build of the following skills, I easily defeated Shiro as a A/W: Critical Agility; Critical Defenses; "For Great Justice!"; Jaizhenju Strike; Silverwing Strike; Sun and Moon Slash; Dragon Slash; Sunspear Rebirth Signet. Why did this build work? Simple. I kept my party off for a few seconds using the All Flag. I ran in and aggroed Shiro. As soon as he was aggroed (Cause it takes forever for him to walk up to me), I activated the Criticals. When he got up to me I slashed him until I got 10 strikes of Adrenaline. At this point I removed the All Flag to let my 4 team mates attack as well. At the same time, I used FGJ, and then spammed Dragon Slash (I suspect this skill will be nerfed soon, so this build won't work forever.) When FGJ ended, I used all 4 attacks as they became available. When FGJ was ready again, I waited until Dragon Slash could be used, and repeated the tactic. I kept my party away for a short while to make sure that aggro stayed on me, and for 90% of the battle, it did. When he was off me, it was only for a few seconds. It takes a while, probably because I only had a party of 5 available to fight, but for the most part this build rocked him if I could keep him on me, which I could. 75% of his hits failed, which also helped so much. Since his aggro was on me, and he could barely hit me, I had a gigantic advantage over him. This build is a personal build that I created a while ago to work with Crit Barraging, and I was just bringing it in because I felt like being a swordie at the time, which is why I love Assassin. I can be whatever weapon class I want to be. It was my luck that it did. I did not have interference from the Lich, and as such he was easy as pie after Shiro was killed. (Unfortunatly I didn't know that you had to capture the shrines before you killed them, so I'm going to have to test this build again on them. If it works a second time, I'll let ya all know!)  If you want to test it yourself, please let me know how it goes. Good luck! I forgot to add: I don't know if it matters or not, but I only had LB Rank 2, and I had absolutly no problems with this mission except for the fact that Shiro almost wiped my party out. Other than that, the other parts of the mission were not that hard. As long as you aggro one group at a time, there are no problems what so ever.

Cant win
Hey, i cant beat this and i follow all the advice. Can somebody find me in-game and help? My ign is Divine Gaurdian (yes, spelled "gaurdian", the correct spelling was taken). Thanks for the help anybody that decides to. 24.176.98.38 01:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC) Gabe

Capping Shrines Easily for H/H even in HM
This is from HM but should work in NM too. Part1 : Easy 2 Shrines When you clear the way to the shrines DO NOT go inside. DO NOT initiate the Shiro/Lich Dialog. Go North, outside the entrance, and you will have a clear view of the Lyssa Shrine and the margonites in it. Flag your H/H somewhere behind the shrine (you will recognize the shape of it). The H/H will indeed go there and deal with the very few margonites. Then move South, outside of the entrance again, to repeat the procedure for the Melandru shrine. And there you have 2 easy shrines and blessings (+20 armor and +50HP). Lich and Shiro won't attack your H/H going form one shrine to the other because they are still GREEN (friendly). Part 2 : How far does this hole goes. Now, I did this mission twice to see how far can I get away with this. So, I joined my group at the Mellandru Shrine and tried to move them to the Balthazar shrine (next to it). Unfortunatelly Shiro followed them and didn't break aggro, thus eliminating my H/H with the help of the warrior Margonites there. Lich on the other hand ignored the group (this is helpfull, read bellow). So, as I always do in this mission, I suggest killing Shiro first, outside of the entrance and then do the flag thing for every shrine. Lich, somehow is only interested at Kormirs position. So move your H/H let them clear the shrines and then go join them. My expirience is that Lich won't attack them. On the other hand when I moved along with my group from shrine to shrine he managed to take down a couple of them easily :( . Now about you joining back with your group each time, I suggest at least a running skill, or some kind of self protection because Lich will hit you hard ;). Even though it's not important, my party build, was : me Ursan Warrior, Sousuke SF, Olias SS (As sugested in the article), Tahlkora WoH, Mhenlo, Kihm, Cynn, Herta.
 * Tried the above in normal mode and found that I can flag all 5 shrines and get bonus before activating Shiro/Lich speech. I tried Lyssa, Melandru, Balth, Dywna, Grenth in that order. Bringing on the minimap makes things easier. You just need to click all the H/H to the 5 icons representing the shrines[[Image:BlessingHHGateofMadness.jpg|thumb ]]--RGM-79G 09:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

REPLY FAST PLEASE
Ok I just killed both shiro and the Lich with bonus..AND IVE BEEN RUNNIG AROUND THE MAP FOR 10 MINUTES NOW the cutscene hasnt played and im wondering around the mission map. Im just wondering if theres something I have to do or is this a bug.Mr Prash 23:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You have a bug. That sucks, I think you have to restart.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  23:48, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * God damn I had H/Hd it too.


 * Well, Just look at the section above this one, so you can H/H it again easy.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  23:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It was easy the first time just time consumingMr Prash 00:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Snare link
sorry, i'm new to editing the site, but is there a way to change the link on the word 'snare'? it leads to the skill not the term, and as you are talking about elementalists snaring, I am fairly certain this is the wrong. Is there any way to change this? There is a link from that page, but it would be easier for all concerned if the link went directly to the article needed. (btw this is in the second paragraph of the walk through) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bastthegatekeeper (contribs).
 * fixed. --Kale Ironfist 03:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I dont know a link to the "snare" youre talking about, but you could type this in to look at all the skills that make you go faster or slower. Hope it helps (type into the search box):

Movement speed skills quick reference User:kiega123456789ooo 13 May 2008

Messed up bonus and mission completion
Ok, i was doing the mission, and i got the bonus completed before Shiro killed my team. But it didnt say that I completed the bonus. Is that supposed to happen? User:kiega123456789ooo 13 May 2008
 * Only Prophecies missions use the mission/bonus reward system, where you can complete one but not the other. Factions and Nightfall missions use a tiered reward system where you only get the reward for finishing the mission, but you must complete additional objectives during the mission to achieve the higher tiers.  See the full explanation here.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Impossible to beat Shiro without Necros and Mesmers
Is it true that you cant beat Shiro without Mesmer and/or Necro skills? My team was wiped out in the end after 15 mins of trying to kill Shiro without Mesmers and Necros. My team had 2 wars, 3 hero monks, 1 earth ele (me), a derv, and a ranger. I know its not the greatest team ever. User:kiega123456789ooo 13 May 2008

Can a Shockwave build beat Siro?
Just as the subject says, can you beat Shiro with a Shockwave build? User:kiega123456789ooo 13 May 2008
 * Maybe if you cast a few gajillion times and hope that he doesn't use battle scars then yes, it's possible Blue.rellik 04:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Way to beat it in Hard Mode with H/H...
CONSUMABLES!!!!! got it done in Hard Mode just recently and did it with consumables. Cons make Shiro look like a weekling. He hit me for 10-15 damage when i had cons up. I needed only 1 set to get through it. --Arthas 14:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As he is an Assassin, that is not surprising, since Armor of Salvation makes you immune to critical attacks. Usually Shiro isn't an issue til he unleashes that damned impossible odds.  Empathy or Spiteful Spirit or similar anti/melee damaging skills are usually a good counter.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  14:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You can also set your heroes/henchies/dmg dealers to a point where shiro stops following you, and let someone lure him over and over again. You never get hit, and thus he never is healed by Battle Scars, and doesn't unleash the fury of Impossible Odds. And it's just foolproof if your backline can stand still. And since no PUG knows what kiting is, that wont be a problem. Right? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:28, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Every time I try that little glitch of making him run back and forth, and never actually make it to your party... it never works. We always just end up taking him out the old fashioned way. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  14:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * He doesn't "stick". You need someone to run to the gate in order to pull him again. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 14:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Video Link
213.93.12.20 has been constantly re-adding that video, as it has been removed multiple times by multiple users. Not only is that IP violating 1RV, his video is not helpful at best. It is a 55, who never even reveals the skills he uses. This video has no relevance to the article or any casual players trying to complete this mission. Thoughts? Comments? --   (T / C)  14:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I posted a warning on his talk page yesterday, and he re-added the link again anyway, so I banned him. My first ban, whoo!  XD  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently the user knows how to use proxies. I protected the page for now, since it would be pointless to keep banning his IPs.  Hopefully he'll get bored in a couple days and this can be unprotected.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)