Talk:Game updates/Archive9

bug that hasnt been fixed non existant update!!!!
anet still hasnt fixed the bug that causes random npcs to magically appear a few feet back and keep jumping a few feet in front,indefinetly.......can an admin or someone here plz put in a fix appeal,as many players are extremly annoyed by this.....


 * We are not affiliated with ANet, so having an admin here put in a support ticket is no different than having a player do so. Having said that, I believe the problem you are referring to is a simple Lag problem, not a bug. I know that happens a lot to me if I idle with Heroes or Henchmen for too long...I find that the best way to fix it is to use the /dance or some other repeating emote, and just sit there for awhile. I don't know why, but it seems to fix the problem...Entering a town usually works too. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I know that problem, to fix it i minimize the game then maximize again. this mosty happens when i alt tab the game instead of using button for making the screen smaller.

Martanos

I have had this problem a few times: Deleting the dat-file and downloading it again solved it for me. Probably a small mistake that gets written in during gameplay. I know keep a fresh dat-file backed up in case it happens again. Helgan Iceglow.

/report
/report doesn't work for me .. i don't see any new panel or anything.. am i doing something wrong ? --Kyrax 15:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to type /report . If you did that: It is indeed broken. --Vipermagi 15:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I did that.. --Kyrax 16:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol, ok... GG Anet, again? --Vipermagi 16:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering if it might not be available yet.. maybe /report is an upcoming feature.. --Kyrax 17:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe Anet can share how we're supposed to type Asian language characters on English keyboards. Sirocco 18:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Read the update notes -_- You can also target the player in question and then type /report without a name. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 19:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

There you go. They just made it available. You get a nice pannel with options.. i like that feature. --Kyrax 19:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Copy/Paste is your friend :P. Use the name from whisper if you can't see the character to click on. ~ [[Image:GeckoSprite.gif]] Pae 07:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well the panel thing didn't pop up when I had the person selected. I'll try it again later. Sirocco 00:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Can we try this then cancel the report just to test it ? TulipVorlax 01:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just go to Bergen Hot Springs International District and test it there on those 55 monks.
 * It's not just bots there you know, I 55 there whenever I'm bored :P -Meridan 07:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but I bet you don't exit town by clicking on flag, stopping, then clicking outside the portal. -Ezekiel 09:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I usually click on the flag, turn around 3 or 4 times, then exit. Usually I scrape the wall too.Nub 01:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The only way I could get this to work is by typing /report Hope that help folks  81.106.54.66 08:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I click the flag before exiting to make sure I'm going to the right place. It also helps me get to the door when I'm lagging.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 18:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you also hug the walls on your way up and occasionally run into said walls? I'm quite sure ANet bothers to check any reports anyway, so actual players don't get accidentally banned just for being in the same town. :P --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

A player isn't repoorted until I click confirm in the Report window right?~MarioDX 21:59 October 2nd

Grr...people use the report system for revenge after loosing a pvp match! I got banned after I won an AB, and my cousin got banned for the same thing. A-net needs to improve the report system. Mando.
 * That shouldn't be possible, you can only report your own teammates for leeching, and the other /report offenses aren't tied into the Dishonorable Combat system. Only leaving matches or leeching reports flags you as dishonorable, the other functions of that command requires review by an ANet employee.  Unless you meant that you were banned from the game entirely (not from PvP via Dishonor), in which case whoever reviewed the report agreed with it.  If that's the case then it's your own darn fault, watch the language next time.  If you meant getting the Dishonor hex though, point your fingers straight at your own teammates, because they're culpable. -Gildan Bladeborn 21:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Another reason why I'm giving GW a very long break. Maybe they'll have the report feature smoothed out in a few months... and I'll be interested in the game again.--Dice 05:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Report wasn't working last night. :( It didn't bring up the report window or even say there was a problem with the command.  I was looking forward to reporting an annoying trade spammer.


 * I am very sad what Anet has done. First, this is a game where we kill monsters and other people. You have to be 18 to purchase it, and it has filters if you don't want see "foul" language. Then why in the fucking hell, Anet is turning people into hall pass monitors and baby sitters? You don't like that someone called you a fag, put the person on ignore list. Why is this game enables people with low self-esteem with gestapo like powers. If two players call each other by their pet names, why do you need to report them? Put them on ignore list and be done it, don't deprive people of communication just because you find it offensive. Instead of report, please add commands like /ignoreall (name) or /noteamall or /noteamAR (name) and be done with that. This is game, part of it is gaining experience from how people interact, so by creating /report command you are creating generation of children who whine, and scream "mommy/ daddy he said a bad word!" Such reinforcement for this behavior is mode deplorable than if someone called someone a bad name. If we worships fictional deities, kill humans and animals alike and most importantly rewarded for it, it is very hypocritical to remove real, world language interactions that might come from it. In addition, what if someone is called "Ganinya" Is that okay? Or that means "Fuck your mom" in Chinese? Or Pushy Galore? Or Futter Buck? TheRapist Monk? As you can see, when you start censorship, where will it stop? Making fun of Christmas might be offensive to a Christian,someone been proud of being gay and finding the freedom to express that on line might be offensive to most uneducated people, etc, etc, etc. I understand that there are asshats and jerks in the game, but provide proper tools in dealing with those issues. Empower people to be take charge of their environment, not into making them into army of whiners. I stopped playing GW for few reasons, and with censorship being the biggest one. When, you ANET, changed my EULA, and I had no real recourse. Imagine buying a product that is constantly changes what it is, and you have no control of it. We can make numerous analogies, but I will stop here. In the end, reporting command as it is now, is a really bad idea. Provide tools that make the game as unrestrictive as possible, yet provide different level of protection to the end-user. Thank you. I will be looking forward to GW2, I hope this important issue will be resolved by then.
 * I agree with don't having to report foul language. There are filters if your tender ears can't take it. I usually turn of team chat so enemy teams can't bitch at me, and anyone who harasses me gets the ignore list. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 02:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree with all of the above block of text, but you forgot the racial epithets they let leak through their precious content filters. Its perfectly acceptable to make "Whitey McCracker" but the second you cross the "black" line forget about it.  Now I understand the playerbase is bound to be overwhelmingly white (and male for that matter) so they are looking out for potential abuse but why the double standards?  Its horribly ironic to me that the same socially acceptable and politically correct double standards that play out every minute of every day in America have come to dramatically influence overall policy of a fictional video game.  I have no intention of quitting the game I just think it should be brought to attention just how nonsensical (and apparently biased) these policies can be.
 * I'll agree with that. the Ignore list needs to be longer than 10 ppl for GW2. Mesodreth Blackwing 20:40, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Can someone tell me why the hell I can't report someone in AB on my side for leeching? When they were testing the system out, it worked perfectly. Now, if an entire team is leeching, no one can report them. GG ANet.

Possible Hall of Monuments Dye Fix?
All my armor was previously displaying as default gray in the Hall of Monuments (all of which is either a mixture of old dye colors, or a mixture of new dye colors). After this update, however, they are displaying correctly. If anyone else experiences this 'fix' it should be added to the notes section.Silentvex 02:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * THey all display in the color of the armor you are wearing when you enter your HoM. - Yellow Monkey (T/C) 09:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Lies. My armor is definately not purple. Lord of all tyria 09:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is in fact done off the Chest Piece you were into the Hall. If you swap the Chest Piece while in the hall you can then swap the order of the armors and they will change to that current Chest Piece.--Cronus 02:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The armour is displayed with the colour of the chestpiece, regardless of the individual colouring of the rest of your armour Nazmazh 22:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I had full dyed black Elite Profane, and apparently it's orange. It was easily changed though, when I swapped the order of where the armours are placed they reverted... Maybe it happens with the default grey problem? 87.81.136.71 12:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Did anyone notice this?
the update on the 27th had this "Underworld Hall of Monuments trophy". does anyone know what that is all about? how to obtain it? what it does, if anything. Im surprised no one has mentioned anything about this anywhere in guildwiki.. 71.93.223.99 06:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Monument of Honor. "Eternal Conqueror of the Underworld". Been there for awhile. (T/C) 06:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

OMG!
Twice, I played today on Vizunah Square, and got entwined with another group. Once, french, and the other I dont know. I have screencaps (minus name of other group) but you can see by party roster, we didnt have the heros that were tehre. As soon as we got close to them, however, togo died and both parties got booted... Update glitch, or what? Ravien Coromana 20:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC) BTW, the french group had this happen twice as well. Dont have time to upload screencaps right now
 * You need to keep both Togo and Mhenlo alive, or you fail the mission... nothing new there. ~ [[Image:GeckoSprite.gif]] Pae 20:31, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * no.... you dont understand, pae. There was a seperate group, taht WASNT in our party that was fighting with us... us 8, and them 8 (most with heros) I'll post screencap soon Ravien Coromana 20:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a two-party mission...[[Image:bunneh.jpg]]-The Bunny  20:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not supposed to happen though.... Ravien Coromana 20:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless you don't know what a 2-party mission is, you're failing to explain the glitch part of this. [[Image:bunneh.jpg]]-The Bunny  20:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 *  Screencap 1... Tell me where in that mission statement does it say otehr players are supposed to be in the PvE mission with you, that arent in your party. Ravien Coromana 20:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * another, better screencap. http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w261/ravi999coromana/gw068.jpg
 * oh hai --romlado

The mish has NPCs, but no 2nd party... or at least its not supposed to. Ravien Coromana 20:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. &mdash; Skakid9090 20:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's made pretty clear in the walkthrough, actually, most notably the part that says "The mission begins with the Canthans starting from Vizunah Square (Local Quarter), getting a head start into the first courtyard area. The foreign team begins from Vizunah Square (Foreign Quarter). It is important for both teams to group up as soon as possible, while keeping their NPCs alive." - Auron 20:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to know then, why we instantly died when we met up, when both important NPC's were at full ehalth... *sigh*... togo just died out of nowhere...


 * Afflicted Soul Explosion Spike + Boss nuke? --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 21:08, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You failed to protect him. Fail. End of story. Sirocco 21:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Togo has an affinity for getting owned. Zefir 21:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is 2 missions named Vizunah square, one local (for canthan born chars) and foreign (for chars born not in cantha) and those 2 teams meat up at "vizunah square" ... no glitch there Falafel 22:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

^ Did anyone else find this absolutely hilarious? Tain 02:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought it was cute. ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 02:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In a sad sort of way...75.61.44.130 05:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It is possible that the OP has never done the missions before. Or, it could be that they did them in the past with the opposing team entirely made of Henchmen... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Once Nightfall came out, it became pretty much impossible to see another team in this mission... when I first got Factions, NF wasn't released yet, and plenty of Prophecies characters were still migrating over. So the mission almost always had two full teams.
 * ...then Nightfall came out, most everyone jumped across to there, and traffic died down severely in the mission. Even on the foreign side, it's not rare to have the local side be entirely henchmen. Anyone who didn't have the chance to play the mission when there was more traffic probably never knew - and might not ever know - that it's a two-party mission. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And it's generally better that way IMO, I have had my fair share of LAME parties who are like lv2 Azns and crap like that >.> Although I did get Masters on Vizunah only because the other guy was also an MM... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Dual-PUG for the win/loss. It's generally an easy mission, you just need to randomly get teams that can either protect their NPC, or kill foes fast enough that it doesn't matter. At the time, if you didn't have a MM in every group, then something was wrong with the game; more often then not, you'd have to draw straws to see which MM in a group had to switch to a different Necro build. "Aw crap, what do you mean I can't MM too?! I don't even know what my other skills do!" --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont want to put oil on the fire but, in second screeny he has post, we can easilly see that his group left Mhenlo behind (green triangle). So, maybe it's Mhenlo who has diyed.
 * Still, i understand him be surprised to have to do a mission with another group. I was the first time. TulipVorlax 06:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Huge Bug... plz someone help me tell anet about that
After a recent update I experienced that HUGE problem. Ok everyone, look at the pictures... it tells everything... When i want to cats a spell it tells me very often not enough energy... On first picture, I have full energy (with an item in my hands). That is 33 energy and I tried to cast Recuperation Spirit. The message appeared and told me "Not enough Energy". For picture 2, the same thing happened but I wanted to cast Resilient Weapon(10 energy) when I had 13 energy, Recuperation was recharging. This is a MAJOR BUG... how do you want to heal when half of my spells don't work. It is very frustrating. I don't know how to tell ANet about this. This problem happens all game longand it has been going on for like 1 week or 2. Big Bow 20:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a known bug with Item Spells that has been going on since...well...forever I think. See Talk:Unyielding Aura for example. Although, it does not happen all the time, since I personally haven't experienced it on my Rt. No one really knows how or why or what to do for a fix. (T/C) 21:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it 's funny tho, I have been using my Rit for almost a year now and I experienced that only from 1 week or 2. Big Bow 22:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I had this smae bug on my elle in an ab. It went away after the ab ended.--Murderer bomb 15:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I have encountered a similar bug on my Necro. Whenever I'm using a hexing build or blood spiking, Sometimes spells that target a foe will randomly return the message "Invalid Spell Target" I've noticed this occurring mostly on my necro with hexes, and only when I first change to that target. When I switch to a different for there is a 1 or 2 second period where the game recognizes my target as invalid. Later i noticed the same thing happening when I try to enchant allies with my monk. I havent expirienced this recently (withing the past couple days) but it is definately a recent bug, as I have played for 2 years now, and it has only been happening on and off for the past 5-6 weeks. Not sure what it is, but Also, My friend who runs an Ele religiously, has encountered your not enough energy bug. He'll have some 50 energy left and can't cast Immolate.


 * Similer one on my Derv, AoM suddenly decides not to work with 40 energy. Common bug! RT | Talk 07:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

October 12, 2007

 * To release "customization" from the mini pets in the Hall of Monuments you must go there and view the monument.
 * Hard Mode has been added for GWEN.
 * Hidden Treasures can appear on the first floor of a dungeon. (Screen pending. bloody dialup)
 * These hidden treasure drop less gold ( I got 38g from on in cath first floor).
 * Lightbringer's Gaze does not work in the exile anymore. --[[Image:Warrior's_Endurance.jpg|18px]] numma_cway 20:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone removed the Hard Mode Note! -- [[Image:Elisa Angelstine sig.png|25px]]Elisa Angelstine (talk) 20:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Put it in the correct page, please Cress Arvein 20:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my bad, didn't realise.. EN HM!!! YAAAY!! -- [[Image:Elisa Angelstine sig.png|25px]]Elisa Angelstine (talk) 20:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Nerfed half of all skills I use!!! NOOOO!! 78.156.195.25 22:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Searing Flames did not need a buff...lol@Anet for buffing the most overused Fire Elite -66.167.214.151 22:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I want to thank anet for completly destroying the para. My para have managed to dodge most updates but this last one was really heavy. I wonder what ppl at Anet think when they decides what skills to change, it must be something like this: I dont mind the nerfs aslong as they buff or creates new synergies with other skills but they way they are going on only nefing never buffing para skills its makes paragons not fun to play anymore.-- ( √ iktor ) 23:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * -Are ppl still playing the paragon?
 * -Afraid so...
 * -Wasnt the last nerf enough?
 * -No ppl are still playing "Go for the Eyes!" and "Watch yourself!" with Agressive Refrain seems to be the ongoing theme
 * -Ok, lets nerf them and buff all other classes
 * -Yeah
 * -Why did we make the paragon class to begin with?
 * -We had to make one class that was worse than all the others so ppl always can say, "atleast my class is better than the paragon"
 * -Ah thank you for refreshing my memory.
 * Heh, Paragons have now been completely nerfed. There is basicly no reason to use a para any more.--<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What they clearly "wanted" to do was add Spears as another warrior attribute instead of making half-assed new classes. Two more skills taken out of the game. Hooray. -- JadeWarrior 23:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you people know Anets intention for paragons was for them to stand there and yell at everyone. When people started diverting from their plans and actually doing a mediocre job in combat something had to be done!--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 23:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What they should have done is just named the profession "Bard". At least that would have been more in line with their intentions, and then people wouldn't be as angry when the profession's combat skills are nerfed.  Shadowlance 01:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They should have named it cheerleader.

Heh, they made Droks runs a little easier for my assassin. And "charge" has a 33% speed buff.24.4.196.143 01:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Another, another update, same batch of complains. They said the skills changed was in testing phase guys. TulipVorlax 01:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And? Most of the time when they do this thing they wind up keeping them the same when they permanently apply the update, if you stay quiet they'll think every thing is alright and accepted. 68.204.126.178 02:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to rape and mutilate everyone that says 'paragons suck'. They're still one of the best professions to have, they're team wide defense is nigh unmatchable --Blue.rellik 03:16, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I'll take a good def para over a prot monk any day. -Malcheior Sveth 03:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The buff to SF's burning is a big buff to ToF, too. Still, WY! was nice as an armor boost - not JUST energy management. Tain 04:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Freaking cracked armor being reapplied constantly is killing the energy of my h/h monks.75.61.44.130 21:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Gasp, I might actually need to think about bringing Aggressive Refrain! I can always use other adrenaline boosters if I need to. I think Izzy should change the CrAr condition to a simple -20AR while it's active though, reapplying the condition over and over is rather annoying. Just give me the armor debuff already. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  23:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It appears as though Lightbringer's Gaze isn't working in the Domain of Anguish anymore.. was this part of this update or did I miss it in a previous one? I haven't been there in a while but was shocked this weekend to see that gaze didn't work on the elite Margonites! --Pooder 15:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Memory Leak
anyone noticed a higher usage of their system memory in GW? i have a gig of memory but at some stage GW was using up to 480mb of my system memory. Has anyone also noticed a drop in performance? i am running a GeForce 7900gt which up till recently was more then enough for GW - but now my frame rate seems to be a bit random - dropping to 10 or so out in open areas for no reason. --XistdedOne 00:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought it was just me, lately performance has been quite choppy and nothing else has changed. Guild Wars is the only title having framerate issues, and it used to run quite smoothly. -Gildan Bladeborn 18:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No issues here in Holland. My shitty pc is not shittier than before. It might be the rep weekend screwing you over, many people online these days. --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 18:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been having issues ever since GW:EN came out, but never thought much of it Zefir 19:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm i dunno - just annoys me when im out farming and i die cause my frame rate becomes non-existant - i would agree that since GWEN was released it started - i thought it could have been my video drivers but im runing the NVidia release just b4 the current beta drivers.... ahh who knows - might be another issue with my damn card--XistdedOne 00:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing it here too, although not just in the last update. I'm not sure when the problem first started, but just the other day GW was running slowly so I minimized it and opened Task Manager.  GW was taking up about 500Mb and the memory usage number was steadily climbing.  Shadowlance 15:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Resurrection SAND!?!
Perhaps my understanding of things is inaccurate, but regarding "Moved the first Resurrection Shrine in Vulture Drifts to the side of the portal into Dunes of Despair" from the 12 Oct 2007 Update. I read this to mean that just outside of the zone gate from the Dunes of Despair there is now a rez shrine. Unless I've encountered a weird bug, no shrine exists there. Mind you, I purposefully died and was resurrected on the patch of sand next to the ruined building. Right where the collector Uderit Ignis is standing (until I got rezzed - and then poof he's gone), but no shrine. -- Sabardeyn 01:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Must be a bug. ANet doesn't usually move rez shrines... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in body of the update notes... Maybe it just isn't "fully" implemented (i.e. with graphics) yet. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   04:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What I meant was that this is the first time I remember ANet ever doing such a change, ie moving a rez shrine. They have changed the activation radius before, sure, but not moved an entire shrine. So maybe this is a new thing and they didn't get it quite right. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI there was no shrine outside Dunes of Despair before. If you died, you where resed in the middle of the portal to that location (I guess that was a safety measure). &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 06:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding's still different than moving >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. My comment was just some general Trivia :P &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 09:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Lightbringer and DOA
anyone noticed if lightbringer is working or not in DOA. I read on guru that it wasnt anymore - and i noticed after a gloom run that i didnt do anywhere near the normal dmg to the monsters with LB on.--XistdedOne 10:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

yes I noticed that as well. lb gaze doesn't work on any creatures in DoA anymore. It makes no sense to me as they are Margonites. Removing lb gaze from affecting the stone summit in Slaver's Exile I can understand, but this is the kind of place/creatures lb was made for, isn't it? --Pooder 14:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

/in new update they nerfed
they just killed the assasin skill deadly paradox by changing it to 33% anyone else completly pissed?
 * It was stronger than Mantra of Recovery and was non-elite. Tell me, exactly, HOW that was balanced? --Kale Ironfist 00:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The builds using it were far too strong. It needed to be nerfed. Zefir 00:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesnt realy change much - i tested it with some builds i run - makes u have to react faster is all ^^--XistdedOne 01:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It was only to prevent perma-shadowformers without re-nerfing arcane echo. I doubt ANet cares as much about the deadly arts sins as all the people griefing in arenas and having super hax farming builds and such. 69.40.249.50 01:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm almost positive it was because of me! User:JediRogue/Nerf Shadow Form. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 01:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You can still use Shadow Form to great effect in farming and running; the few uses I can think of for Shadow Form in farming is Solo Green A/E, which does not use a perma-SF, so it's a moot point. Oh noes, I've got to wait a little bit longer in a completely safe position while SF recharges. The other use is Elemental Sword farming, which is essentially the same build as the Solo Green farmer, and also doesn't use perma-SF.
 * In running, perma-SF isn't a great tactic; I've run Droks before with a build like that, and it doesn't help me at all. Granted, the nerf to Chilibans (sp?) means I've got no more weaknesses aside from AoE damage, but hell, I'm not planning to sit in a mob for an hour anyway. I can deal with a few more seconds of downtime; I was planning ahead for a downtime anyway.
 * The one thing this hit hard was Deadly Arts 'Sins. They still work, of course, but not quite as fast. They're, what's the word, balanced now? In my opinion, at least. I'm hoping this nerf is a permanent one, because that means we've got a better chance of seeing buffs to a lot of other skills. Other skills which generally came with the comment "yes, I know it's underpowered in it's current form, but if we reduce the recharge, it'll be broken with Deadly Paradox."
 * ...that reminds me, I need to get back on my 'Sin for some farming again. I'm low on gold. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  03:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They still need to do something about Deadly Haste. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No reason to fix what's not broken. Deadly Haste is just fine. Critical Strikes is a primary attribute.87.174.231.9 10:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ...that has no half ranged spells and isn't a desirable caster attribute since every other skill [is / needs / does something upon] an attack. The lack of half-ranged spells in general aside. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 01:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A/E Water Trident spammer! -Ezekiel 02:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe they nerfed chilblains. After seeing the shadowformers in AB (and the noobs wasting time trying to kill them) I was about to start running chilblains for laughs, but Anet nerfed it before I could do that :(.
 * Yes, it's true, many of the skills you wouldn't normally see in a match, but some are extremely viable options. Besides, its worth bringing one just to watch him/her crap their pants when you do.  I wish ANET would stop nerfing things just because everyone has to use their cookie cutter builds.  I bet SOMEONE on your team could find good use out of something below:
 * Interrupt the cast (easier to interrupt the Arcane Echo) - Signet of Disruption, Leech Signet, Shove, Grapple, Signet of Judgment
 * Remove it - Rending touch (actually quite popular on W/D), Expunge Enchantments, Grenths Aura, Winds of Dis, Signet of Disenchantment.
 * Disable it - Signet of Humility, Blackout
 * Rend touch is a spell, so it won't work against shadow form. --Kale Ironfist 22:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * doh, good call - thought it was a touch skill like a bites. And that was one of my biggest selling points as I see it a lot in R/TA.  Hey let the annoying touch ranger steal his health.  They can go fight in the corner :) --Phoenix

Perma Shadow Form Still Not Nerfed
Muhahahaha. Still works fine.--<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * So long as it's harder to do, I think ANet did what they meant. :D And as a small aside, people should run Expunge Enchantments and Signet of Disenchantment more often. Assassins generally don't mind losing their self-heal for a few seconds, and it rips off multiple enchants, right through Shadow Form, Spell Breaker, and Obsidian Flesh... Signet of Disenchantment makes you lose all your energy, but on a Mesmer, you've got at least ten ways to gain that back, and as a Warrior/Paragon, you generally don't need the energy to begin with. Dervishes can also bring Rending Touch, which is better then you might expect, as is Winds of Disenchantment. WoD is particularly useful for ripping off stuff like Aegis, providing you've got enough enchantments on yourself. And Grenth's Aura is pretty nasty with Pious Fury. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  06:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Its just as easy, all you have to do is relearn your timing. It in no way affected how perma shadow form works. The new timing on the skills is actually easier imo. And btw, rending touch = spell, so it doesn't work vs. shadow form.--<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah right, I was thinking Touch = hit. Still stuck in Touch = Expertise mode. :P But Expunge still stands as a hugely underused enchantment removal skill, especially on a class that has big trouble with blocking enchantments ("oh noes, my lead attack missed! I'll just sit here for five minutes while it recharges"). You know what's fun? Recall 'Sin vs. Expunge 'Sin. Make sure to have the /wave emote all ready to go. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  02:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I carry Expunge Enchantments 100% of the time on my warrior. :P It's a ton-o-fun. Especially against cocky dervishes, E/D elementalists, Shadow formers, 55hp monks, and 130hp dervs. What's that? all your enchantments are gone? Aww... and you thought I was a warrior and couldn't do anything against your "pwnzorz" build. =D 76.173.217.181 06:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Factions Pets
I ditched my White Tiger cause it was so tiny when Dire, and took a White Moa. Now they made Factions pets grow! Bleh, jus my luck. -- -- (s)talkpage 13:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, I also evolved a Dire White Tiger... BECAUSE it didn't grow. I don't want a big pet - now I'm pissed. Tain 14:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone have a pic of how big Phoenixes get now? Comparable to Rainbow Phoenix? :o (I wish...) &mdash; [[Image:NessHrinIcon.png]]  Ness  19:11, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a pic of my lvl 20 Imperial Dire Phoenix on my userpage O.o <font color="Green">X Deity X  [[Image:xdeityx.png]] 22:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I am so gonna start playing my ranger again, now when the normal phoenixes r bigger. 78.156.200.109 17:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Frak, they get that big?! I better check my white tiger on my ranger then... And my tiger on my sin :P Oh, and I may need to consider a phoenix as well... 69.235.235.101 22:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The hell?!
This update screwed something up big time... Copper Elf 22:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

yeh i cant log in either--Chris1645 22:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Same fR0z3n.S0u1 22:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Searing works, but nothing else for me...90.15.138.190 22:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A friend of mine had this since yesterday, but it only started for me just now after the update a few mins ago >< Copper Elf 22:29, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I've got a similar issue now- I can log in, but the second I load a place, I get an err 007 --Kalas Silvern 22:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Some programmer spilled coffee into the authentication server I bet. Copper Elf 22:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Error 007: James Bond has killed all of the server admins. Please find a new MMO to play. Twitch3z 22:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad I always check places like this before I disconnect and download them. I know better than to not expect the idiots to screw stuff up. lol ~  <font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  22:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, in the end you don't really have a choice.... Copper Elf 22:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

ahh unless you got error 007 it shouldent of been the glitch/. oh and paras dont suck you just need to learn how to use them.message me if you want to look at my buildorao del caprio the leet para 12:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but I can play a while still till they fix it. :)  ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  22:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I started by getting err=19's but now I get 007's. Seb2net, too lazy to login 84.48.184.130 22:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

"Fixed a bug that allowed some characters to leave pre-searing." Rette Alarix 22:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * now noone can leave pre-searing it seems ))) (oops, it was me fR0z3n.S0u1 22:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Well, they can't enter either :) Copper Elf 22:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

My userpage will explain what happened. Swift Thief 22:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I lol'd ^^ Copper Elf 22:38, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * GFJ A-net way to screw things up PheNaxKian 22:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not Anet's fault. They got hacked. Swift Thief 22:38, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * By this point, they should have had better security. ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  22:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Any official statement on that? fR0z3n.S0u1 22:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Srsly though, a hack on Anet would be epic. Copper Elf 22:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

FIX'D! Seb2net 22:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

New build available. Checking out. fR0z3n.S0u1 22:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC) reanor 22:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I lold pretty hard ^_^ Copper Elf 22:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

omfg ALL OF YOU NOOBS it was 10 minutes... TEN FUCKING MINUTES. obvisly all of you are just looking for something to complain about. for god sakes. it might of been a little error in there coding, because even one small mistake can fuck over everything.orao del caprio the leet para 00:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey! GW:NPA. Don't be so grumpy with ppl, we don't tell you how n00b you are by playing a Paragon and advertising in your sign, so don't come "n00b"ing us. And it's not a little thing, it was actually a subliminal experiment with our minds. During those few minutes our mind started thinking "mmm, GW1 is off, I'll sure buy GW2 when it comes out...". That's why they did it.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 02:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I was in the FoW and suddenly my game froze so i had to get off. Could this have been caused by this bug? Havent gone on since.--Murderer bomb 15:57, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Update 10-20-07
It seems to have killed Guild Wars, Some sort of insta-disconnect. Anyone know anything? -Call Me Phlanx
 * have a look a few lines up. It's all about it >< fR0z3n.S0u1 22:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Srsly /fail
What's with all the people inserting random bullshit into Update Notes? Pretty lame >< Copper Elf 22:49, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The official wiki was way worse until they locked the updates page. I have some funny screens of the comments. -Malcheior Sveth 22:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Please share...hehehe.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 22:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha indeed, please do :) Copper Elf 22:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Omg, they had to lock the update page. Lamez! Copper Elf 23:03, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Lolofficialallright.JPG]] Yeah I know the language is bad, that's about the worst one they had. It was up a good 10 mins before anyone noticed xD -Malcheior Sveth 23:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I lold. ^^ (Third time today, Wiki ftw) Copper Elf 23:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Game Crash
Official wiki speaks of an exploit that could be used to crash the game for all players in an instance. Anyone know anything 'bout this?Copper Elf 23:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone had an external program that he could crash other players on their team. Some clown at Guild guru decided they were the official spokesnobody for anet/ncsoft and decided to administer the contacts between the guy with the program and Gaile.. Then bitch at everyone about discussing it in the thread.  Much talk about banning happen and how they won't get banned because they were pointing out a flaw.


 * I still think the guy who had the program should have any and all accounts banned since he was using the program to send packets to the GW servers to begin with.

V 23:16, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Right, what exactly happened there? No updates there >< <3 at the awesome userbox though :) Copper Elf 23:20, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Suits it a bit better. ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 00:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 4th time I lol'd! Wiki = win. Copper Elf 00:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

This was the issue: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10210024 &mdash;  <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   04:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The initial patch that caused us to DC could have been server side, we wouldn't have seen that

I can't log in, still
I didn't know this was a big issue, I am having this problem (disconnections and lots of code 007 and tons of lag) since few days ago. I am know seeing this update and read what it was about, but I still cannot go beyond the loading point, I will investigate further, but can someone tell me quickly 'what THE HELL is going on'? --66.98.85.30 23:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

thats just your computer, anets servers are being buggy there may of been a hack, by someone and its causeing server issues.


 * Yeah, hack, sure... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Skill Nerfs
Don't know how anyone missed it, but Beguiling Haze has been nerfed. It used to interrupt and daze target foe, now it just dazes with no interrupt. 82.4.229.138 01:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * On the page for Beguiling Haze it says that it is bugged and only interrupts spells, perhaps you tried it on a skill?#
 * No, it doesn't interrupt full stop now, look at the description for the skill in game. It says "Shadow Step to target foe, that foe is dazed for " " seconds". Before it used to say you interrupt too, now it doesn't. 82.4.229.138 12:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Speaking of the skill updates, looks like anet aint changin any of the skills back to the way they were... been a week now... 76.170.188.190 16:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * SoR and Keystone were reverted, and DP was changed again. So, they did change some back, but you're right in that I don't think more changes are coming. Tain 20:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Siege Devourer Bug Fixed
Well, the fun has ended. For those of you who missed out on taking advantage of a full party of siege devourers (and thus have no idea what the bug fix was about), it has been immortalized in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgzCNY31h8 155.33.149.193 04:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC) Rayala]]
 * This update makes me sad. 8 sieges was loads of fun. Good thing I already maxed out agent. :/ Randvek 15:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate Skills
Quote: "There are now duplicate skills at the Priest of Balthazar which you can buy with faction, yet you can only use one of them. Not every skill is like this though, only certain ones. Most of them are associated with the other same skills like Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, and Liquid Flame."

So what exactly does this mean? That skills like, for example, Desecrate Enchantments and Defile Enchantments cannot be used with each other? That would be major suckage... Can anyone provide some more info on this? I'm currently in UW so can't test it. --Progger 11:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I checked, the 3 skills listed don't have duplicates so I think it's utter bullcrap.

--Macros 11:43, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It had been fixed; the duplicates were skills that were used in Costume Brawl. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   21:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Give me my points, Kun Shao!
I mean, i assume he is in some way meant to allow me to redeem them. Instead, he just tells me i have 25 points. And that's it... How did it work last time? This is my first time having made predictions through the Tournament House.
 * For some reason, I read pants instead of points. I lol'd... Tain 17:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * He told me I earned 75 points. Maybe you earned 25? --[[Image:Hero_command_Fight.jpg|18px]]  mrguildboi (:  00:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, i know i have 25 points. Just, well, what do i do with them?
 * You have to be on a pvp char to redeem them
 * Tried pvp and pve. Neither gets me anything other than him telling me how many i have. I'd just accept that i need more before i can redeem them, but i recall that there is only a limied time to redeem them, which makes their existence at an unredeemable level seem a little farcical.

Go to the tournament npc in the great temple of balthazar, get your account registered under a name of one of your toons, then talk to him again. you'll get the points and you could redeem them at the tournament guy for pvp skins, or for golden flamed of balthazar, (15 points each), which can be sold for around 2.5k each. Foo 17:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Twins are gone
The double NPC bug was just fixed a few minutes ago -Ezekiel 00:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Accessing Storage without Xunlai
How did they do this? Did that mean they were able to access their storage whilst still in Pre-Searing?Khazad Guard 00:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably the same way they where traveling to the guild hall, by sending fake packets to the server... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 12:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * http://presearing.com/ &mdash; Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] &mdash;  (contribs) 12:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

it was the same pablo guy who was sending fake packets back and crashing people etc. its all messy. he reported it to gaile (thank god) but then made sure everyone could see his black moa chick and tomes in ascalon district 1. glory seeking ftl..... asshole. 82.17.88.176 20:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Was that the guy who tried to make it sounds like he was an angel for reporting this to Gaile and didn't seem to think using an external program should get him banned? Asshat The Thief (or something like that) felt he should take the responsibility of handling it with him on the forum and no one should discuss it.
 * angels don't report bugs of that magnitude on a public forum on a Saturday. At the very *least* he could have kept this bug, which had obviously been open for a year or so, to himself until a normal work day, and not can a bunch of programmers weekends.   --Blackdog 02:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * People such as that are to be pitied, banned quietly and then forgotten, calling them assholes will just drive their determination to ruin other's fun.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 02:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow HB maps in RA
Guess Random Arenas wasn't dead enough. I can understand giving them a shot in TA, but there is no where NEAR enough organization in RA for HB maps. Not sure if they even belong in TA, considering HB is about survivability and capping while arenas are about eliminating opposing teams.--Goldenstar 00:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Bloody agreed mate, went into RA for a joke and loaded up some HB map. My entire team was running around following me couldn't understand that we can't just stick together. Bad Idea please remove this T_T;
 * word . Nytemyre 14:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * i am totally with you guys on this. HB maps in RA/TA further the notion that only cookie sins and r/p's is what you need to play to be effective. mesmers and espcially spirit-based rits will be even less desirable to play. HB maps will change the focus of arenas for the worse. change it back! --Bellis 18:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The shrine based maps were ruined as soon as people found out they could cheat there way through by playing shrine holding hero builds.
 * Get that crap out of Arenas and take one more step, either get rid of capping maps in Hero battles or create a new Hero team Arena for people who actually want to fight with heroes, not run around with cookie cutter holding builds....--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 21:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Guess ANet finally found out how to nerf RA. Now we can cap shrines in EVERY SINGLE FORM OF PVP(AB,HB,Isle of wurms for GvG,shrine capping for HA,now this for TA/RA).  Honestly, if people liked these kinds of maps, they would go play in AB or HB in the first place!  GG ANet. 71.31.151.96 23:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well on the bright side, it brings up the social values and team strategy in RA rather than just hope you get a Monk.. On the bad side, yes it is very annoying for people not to know what to do in the map, but they will eventualy learn to play in it, I find them pretty fun. And yes, shrines need to be fixed for those pure shrine holding builds that annoy me so. Zulu Inuoe 15:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wants his RA back... :( Pul 20:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It completely ruins the play style that was RA. 3 of my favorite builds suck or are comepltley worthless on the hb maps now because they are designed for close arena combat, not spread out racing from one shrine to another....
 * Atleast 33% of people in RA wont listen to you when you tell them to Res, I doubt those people would be willing to learn to play the new maps...--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 22:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well yes, that is true.. /sigh, it's hard to be positive towards futher human development. Zulu Inuoe 16:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

How to check account for bonus mission pack
Exactly how do you check to see if you qualify for bonus mission pack via 'edit account'?


 * Go to the access key bit, and look in the upper list.... --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 18:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok I have the bonus pack but seeing we are now 2 wks into november does anyone know when it becomes available as this is now getting a bit of a mickey take. Seeing that loads of ppl took advantage of the offer it would be nice if Anet repaid our loyalty by actually making it available??? Ariendil 19:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

HAHAHAHA!
I just got the awesomest bug ever! I went onto my monk after the halloween event (it had been left in Costume Brawl) and i ended up in monastary overlook at the very beginning of the Factions campaign but as a level 20. I dunno wut to do. Its purdy sweet though. (I'm currently testing my sig so im not going to use the squiggly things)--One Three Three Seven
 * That happened to me too after leaving my Assassin in a EotN location after the preview. Guess it does that after you land in a invalid location, and it can't find data of the last other location you visited. It kicks you back to the start. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 03:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It put you in monetary outlook? When I logged on my Ele it put me in chabek village, the outpost not the tutorial zone elonion characters start in.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 03:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is your monk a Canthan character? If not, that might be a handy note for people looking for Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer, since events that let you in there aren't very frequent. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] <font color=#00BFFF>Bigrat2  <font color=#1E90FF>Talk  03:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It sends you back to the starter town of your characters continent. This is because in the past when they removed holiday areas, people who were in them were stuck until they went to their guild hall. You can imagine this being a problem for guildless people. --Macros 03:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, of course. =P Not so much of a bug then. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] <font color=#00BFFF>Bigrat2  <font color=#1E90FF>Talk  03:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe this is the first mention of it on guildwiki --Gimmethegepgun 04:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a bug. Just a safety measure. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 09:35, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I still find this strange. It happened again with my rit (who is also Canthan), but none of the doors will open so there is not much you can do. When you try to proceed with the Instructor NG thing you can get up to about where you pick up your qeapon and equip it, but then he stops and won't say any more. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]<font color="Black">One Three Three Seven 12:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Buff buff buff
Ouch, they nerfed...Recall...EW...Fertile Season? Haha, so many nice changes for Monks I don't care anyways :) And Weaken Armor is viable now! (T/C) 01:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

They nerfed splinter barrage. T_T


 * They nerfed good old Auspicious Incantation+Conjure Nightmare:([[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 03:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow and some of us looked at Conjure Nightmare as a buff because of reduced energy. Funny how there are two sides to every coin ;D [[Image:Isk8.png]]Isk8 03:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, Conjure Nightmare was useless because you'd rather use Conjure Phantasm instead, but the combo with Auspicious Incantation was great. Now Conjure Phantasm will be the underused one. It's a loss-loss situation:P[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 03:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Recall was for those HB buffs who complained Mo/A was a rigged combo. Meh. Won't change Kanaxai runs in the least--[[image:Xiukuro.png]] Xiu Kuro (talk) 04:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Oh my god, my escape skill only lets me escape?! Lame!"
 * Minimal damage to the skill here, just makes it a bad idea for most Monks to run it as a "can't touch this" button. Sure, can't touch you, but your teammates just became fair game. =P
 * Only offensive thing they hurt on this skill was the idea of "everyone Recall on the Warrior, then when he Leeeeroys into the group, cancel and kill everything" plan. But nobody really does that anyway, sadly. (I would have loved to see that become a viable tactic, hehe!) --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  04:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've seen it used in HA on an SF sin with ele PBAoE spike.--Carmine 07:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

RIP LoD
Those of us who used you will miss you. But seriously I guess its still viable with the holy haste build but it is much less effective with the decreased heal. Now its just a cheaper, weaker Heal Party. I hope that ANET changes this one back, but I really doubt they will because it was so powerful. Crossing my fingers.67.167.28.107 03:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They changed the funcionality of this elite, and buffed many others, so that this elite is not the only one being used. This skill is far from dead, its functionality will just be thought about more before being used. This is actually one of the more balanced changes, Imo.  [[Image:Isk8.png]]Isk8 03:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes and who on earth is going to stick a 2 second cast time skill on a monk? If LoD stays meta say hello to the power block mesmer even more. LoD is gone.
 * People always complain when their favorite skills are nerfed, when it's their fault for using it so much....--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 04:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I see no nerf to Those retarded deadly sins.--Shadowsin November 2007 (UTC)
 * ZOMFG no nerf to a FoM that can be completely destroyed by a halfway competent monk that can wander out of range of a half ranged cast skill? :O  BLASPHEMY!--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">igathrash  Talk^Cont 05:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * who needs LoD anymore. Now that Vigorous Spirit is 1/4 cast we can combo with Patient Spirit and Release Enchantments to get the same deal plus have room for another elite. 70.132.2.120 07:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Vig + Patient + Release = 15E, 3.75s for a 60ish heal...that's even worse than the new LoD.--75.45.143.240 19:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) What I'm more concerned about is Glimmer. It is THE spam skeel, with a miraculous cast time. Get HC from an ally and spam away? Still a niche 80 heal every 1.5seconds, if spammed to death --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 07:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't HC self target only? or do you mean mesmer mimicing it? -Ezekiel 01:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He means using Mimicry - since it's a maintained enchant it'll stay on you even after Mimicry wears off. Tain 01:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I thought so, but then you need a second healing monk who can't do that trick (or at least inefficiently) -Ezekiel 05:11, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Or you make em prot since prot is so overpowered it doesn't need help from an elite anyway --Gimmethegepgun 05:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally I give Tahlkora RC and take Xandra as a Healer. Haven't used Dunk or Ogden in a long time. -Ezekiel 05:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

All i know is that Tahikora will be using some other elite. HB in particular is amazing now. Heroes and henches were never reeally that good with LoD. On the down side, mhenlo is worse for the wear. I'm just happy they haven't hit paragons again. It looked like Anet had some serious issues with my beloved class. Sheesh. NightAngel 10:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't worry too much about heroes, really. You just reskill them and the sting of any nerf is gone. No, I mourn poor Mhenlo, whose GW:EN healing capacity has been reduced to zero. Sure, I understand the concept behind skill balancing, but it annoys me that the effect it has on PvE has NEVER been taken into consideration. A major nerf on an elite skill such as this one really does affect the game for people. Mhenlo stinks after this update. Dear devs, next time you have the genius idea to nerf a skill to death, have the courtesy to adjust a henchman's skill bar so PvE doesn't end up taking the blow- again. -- Elveh 09:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * /Agree with Elveh. Izzy needs to stay off drugs.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 16:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't imagine that it would be hard for them to change his skills but chances are they wont. XvivaX
 * Must... Kill.. Izzy.. I mean, how could they nerf an elite skill to make it WORSE then its non-elite counterpart? =X... Mhenlo was an NPC i always took in EotN.. Guess that won't be happening anymore.. <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk) (Contr.) 22:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, Mhenlo became much better in other campaigns with the enormous buff to WoH :P But yeah, this really killed Mhenlo in EotN...sigh. Oh well, at least you can still use him in A Time for Heroes, since LoD cast time is irrelevant there (no interrupts) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Even without interrupts, it's a seriously weak spell for a 2-sec cast... Tain 07:00, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So use Holy Haste or Fast Casting like they say...oops, sorry Mhenlo :P Meh, I didn't notice, I had 3 LoD Hench plus Mhenlo so it was easy anyways :D [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Meh, so many of the henchies need serious makeovers with their builds anyway, just do em all over. Besides, I think this nerf is excellent for people: steer away from the button mash healing (like in City of Heroes) and get back to the target healing. Now if he would just KILL THE DAMNED TREE! --Gimmethegepgun 07:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course a lot of the hench need makeovers, I just mentioned Mhenlo as he was relevant to LoD discussions. ;) But yeah, most of the henchman skill bars are outdated. Even the GW:EN ones, that were adjusted to fit in 'newer' skills, have already been touched by the deadly nerf-virus. I think someone should tell Izzy that PvP isn't the only part of GW, y'know? -- Elveh 15:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, all they do is giving us PvE-only overpowered skills, as in "PvE needs less player skill to succeed than PvP, just throw super skills at them and let them own the AI."[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 18:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But PvE does require less skill. Even serious PvE-ers like myself admit that. Oh and not all hench are that bad. At least they haven't nerfed BHA or Sandstorm. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's true, but it is still unfair, specially if you consider that PvP-ers aren't happy with Anet either. Anet tends to shoot away in the dark with their PvP balances, screwing PvE in the process. It's just retarded.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 03:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there are some Hard Mode things that do actually require a PvE-player to stop and think about what they're doing. There are PvP builds, though, that hardly require players to think at all. (Flavour of the month kind of thing, not the carefully balanced stuff of course.) I personally think that PvE or PvP isn't necessarily harder than the other, but let's not make this into yet another OMGZPVEISLIEKSOMUCHBETRTHNPVPLOLONE debate. Ultimately, PvE skills weren't the solution. For one thing, some of them got nerfed. Why? Not sure. It's not like they were affecting the PvP metagame. For another, heroes and henchmen have no access to them. If I vanquish an area on my own, it means that I'm the only one with a maximum of 3 PvE skills on my bar, and chances are one of them is already a Rebirth Sig.<BR>
 * I do agree that not all henchmen are necessarily bad, but ultimately the problem remains that we may not have access to one of the good ones for a particularly difficult area. That aside, they haven't nerfed this or that skill yet. It's no guarantee that Izzy won't give BHA or Sandstorm the evil eye in the future, and that's what I'm worried about. Nerfs have never really taken PvE into consideration (a really poor way of treating a good part of the playerbase, if you ask me), and if they continue to ignore this issue, chances are that within 3 months from now all henchmen have been nerfed into uselessness. I really do wish that one of the devs would wake up and look into a viable solution for the PvE side. It would be no more than decent to do so. -- Elveh 08:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They could just boost the Hero limit to 6 per player and all problems are fixed :D Although if they did that they should eliminate Henchmen altogether...sigh. I bet what Izzy would do is give "special Hench powers" like a unique Monster skill for each, or some other thing like that. It wouldn't solve the problem but it would, like PvE skills, make things interesting for a time. Meh...TBH, just change the Hench to the same builds they use in the Norn Tourney, that would be more broken, 55 Mhenlo ftw :D [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

awesome, as always anet buffs their rigged monks even more. anets favorite class is monk, and this game is revolved around it, monks never get nerfed, oh wait but u here the nerds saying *OMG SOA NERFED OMG SOA SOA* get fucked noob. There are no monk skills that cause exhaustion, all monk skills are fast castable like a mesmer, all monk skills are no recharge and all monk skills cost no energy. Anet loves to keep their rigged monks nice and rigged. Look at the update, every other class gets decreased this decreased that, monk gets INCREASE INCREASE INCREASE! DECREASE RECHARGE! nice anet, fucking nice, no wonder heaps of people are quitting.
 * ahahahhahah. No -Ezekiel 11:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You've never played a healer agaisnt a decent dazer or a mesmer have you?--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 14:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

There's not enough whine here.
 * Would you like some cheese with your whine?--Carmine 06:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's apparent that ANet wants to encourage people to play together on teams and that they downplay the solo game. Personally my gaming time comes in small pieces throughout the week (due to job hours, having small kids at home, other commitments, etc.) so I rarely play in a PUG since I invariably have to leave.  It's more enjoyable for me to play solo with heroes and henchmen - they don't care if I'm AFK for a few hours during a mission.  I wish ANet would consider the solo player in their game design a little more.  For example, 1. Allow heroes to use PvE-only skills  2. Allow heroes to use celestial skills  3. Put at least basic runes on henchmen armor  4. Put henchmen in ALL areas, including elite missions, FoW, and the Domain of Anguish  5. Get rid of timed missions - the missions where masters is based on doing something differently or doing something extra rather than doing the normal thing more quickly are more fun in my opinion - it also makes it much less aggrivating to have to attend to some RL issue while partway through a mission.  Shadowlance 14:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For a different point of view, I'm also a hard-core solo player. But while I'd agree that ANet tries to gently encourage playing together, I don't think that they downplay solo play.  1-2. Sure heroes have some restrictions that players don't have, but they compensate by having strengths that many player groups don't have. Better coordination, better configurability, fast reflexes (think interrupts).  And they never lag. 3-4. Ok, I think those are fair. 5. Sorry, I love the timed missions. Ultimately, I think that some missions should by timed, others have extras.  Prophecies extras were usually easy and time-consuming, which was annoying.  But extras in Nightfall were usually quite fun. Factions time-based were great, except that just about every mission was like that (if not every mission).  Balance and context is key - some missions do naturally have urgency in them, whereas others are more covert and don't benefit from being rushed.  Oh yes, and please go back to the mission format of the campaigns, instead of repeatable quests of EotN. Alaris 15:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Shadowlance and Alaris, even though I don't entirely agree on 1 and 2. Heroes may not lag, but when you are lagging and you're trying to make them prioritise a skill for the sake of saving the day, chances are their often rather stupid AI will cause them to use 7 other skills first while you're lagging and waiting for your command to get to them. This is especially annoying if you're the only human player. With recent lag issues (there seems to be more of it lately), it makes going solo a tad more difficult. Heroes are a step up from henchmen and I love them, but the hero system is far from perfect. Giving them PvE-only skills (limited to 3 per hero just like it is for normal players) would be a step up to give them a nice edge. I could live with a limit of 1 PvE skill per hero as a compromise, but their AI isn't so awesome that I would say that they've got enough of an edge to go without.<BR>
 * My main concern, however, is that those who don't have as much time to play as they like get punished for it by receiving nerfed henchmen and often buggy hero AI to cope wih. Playing times, guild inactivity and general community activity make certain areas hard to get through. Some areas can take anywhere between 2 and 6 hours(!) (Urgoz, UW, DoA etc) depending on what team you're in, and contrary to popular belief, most people who play Guild Wars do in fact have a life. Between a social life, a job and time at university, my playing hours have gotten very limited. I'm down to three hours a day if I'm lucky, and often less during weekends. The times I do see a chance to get online aren't always the times when my friends are, and my life doesn't allow me the flexibility to shuffle my hours anymore. More often than not, most or all people I know are not online, and districts bordering on whatever area / mission I want to play in are empty or almost empty. I've played with PUGs long enough to know that it's a 90% chance of failure (or maybe it's just my horrible luck), and so I'm not very keen on taking a PUG for anything Hard Mode-related. The emerging scenario is this: my friends aren't online and I'm too afraid to take the lvl20 Assassin and Dervish PUGs (who happen to be the only 2 players in the town at that time). My choice is between heroes and henchmen, or not playing at all. Some missions and areas are doable in HM with just heroes and hench, but with ANet's attitude towards nerfs, it is getting more difficult and much more frustrating than necessary.<BR>
 * It has gotten to a point where I find myself often without any motivation to play, even though I'd like to get a number of things done. ANet's doing its best to kill the joys of PvE play, it seems, and I find that attitude worrying. They've already said they won't bother adding anything to the game and will focus on GW2, so there's nothing to look forward to either. Apparently they think it's okay to abandon their running game and its paying customers for a project that is still 2 years away from release. The fact that they treat the game this way worries me. I find I'm losing my interest in GW1 this way, and, with ANet's attitude towards the PvE community and the overall game, I don't think I even want to bother with GW2. I've no reason to stay interested, and I wouldn't be the first one to say so. Sad, but true. -- Elveh 15:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, wiking here is actually funnier than playing GW sometimes:P[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 15:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * tl;dr, skimmed through. Paying customers? The customers already payed, which is why they can just focus on gw2 (as opposed to p2p games). Also: they can't make everyone happy, you should be glad they added heroes in the first place. This is still an online game, not a single player game. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 16:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Companies want happy consumers, because happy consumers come back. Clever companies maintain good service to keep the customers from moving on to a different company. It's why a lot of things come with a money-back guarantee. It doesn't go for online games, perhaps, to return the money if the product fails to satisfy, but it's no reason to treat your paying customers poorly. You will lose them that way. Don't get me wrong, I love my heroes, I'm just saying that ANet has some points that could use major improving. And it's true that it's an online game, but if no one's online or up for doing this or that, it feels pretty solo. The game shouldn't be impossible or frustratingly hard just because there's no one to help you but Alesia. -- Elveh 17:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a large and active alliance that practically reveres me, but I rarely ever see them in game apart from chat. Fanatical exploration urges, the ability to go AFK whenever I want to, and plain old impatience/efficiency considerations are why I tend to game alone.  Essentially I group up upon request, not as a matter of course (and it's almost never me doing the requesting, not for standard PvE anyways).  It would be nice to have henchmen that don't suck as hard as our current crop does.  The game is certainly more fun when played with (this part is key) competent live players, but standing around because it's impossible without them or because nobody has the right mixture of professions/skills isn't fun at all, and don't get me started on PUGs.


 * Still, I doubt anything they've nerfed so far has made solo play an impossibility, you could do almost any bonus mission in the original game with the ultra-horrible henchmen AI they had back then, so if anything it's gotten WAY easier over time. Still no reason to nerf the henchies skill sets though, if they're going to render the builds they use worthless via balance changes then they should update them to use a build that's still effective. -Gildan Bladeborn 19:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Almost any is not any. ;) But the point was not that everything was impossible in the first place, just that some things were or still are unnecessarily hard for solo players. I mean, Jennur's Horde is a nightmare with henchmen, but it's also a nightmare with PUGs because it relies so much on careful timing. Never even mind doing it in Hard Mode. Anyway... they fixed Mhenlo, so they must have heard our pleas. Maybe this will make them think more about the effect of nerfs on PvE in the future. I hope ANet has learned its lesson and keeps this in mind next time something major is affected. :) -- Elveh 07:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Update November 13
Goodbye sp build

Oh bugger, B/P tombs groups got hit with no pet corpses. Wonder if it still works. -Ezekiel 01:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good news, they fixed Mhenlo! They do hear us![[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 02:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay! That means there's only... let's see... *counts on fingers* Ah yes! Only every other henchman in the game to go! --Gimmethegepgun 02:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Herta's skill bar isn't that bad. But yeah -Ezekiel 02:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahh no more sp! and wth... no more UW ranger? Is it still viable now--Shadow Sin 02:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC) No.....Anet...WHY???????THEY NERFED.....EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*SCREAMS* They went absolutely INSANE with the nerf hammer. Assassins = useless. 68.226.80.232 02:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * oh bah, they touched 5 skills, there's plenty a sin can still do -Ezekiel 02:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I second that, I just wanna know if UW rangers are affected with the nerf to EW--Shadow Sin 02:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * QZ lasts about just as long. Shouldn't be too rough. --65.31.45.239 03:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Meta sin nerf, bout damn time.... Maybe more then one out in a hundred sins will show a little creativity now.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 03:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, more likely situation: The people with 5-15 brain cells that were using a burster will play a different overpowered FoM build. The ones with 16-25 cells will likely abandon the sin and take up the tree instead. 26 and up: The 5 people or so that fall into this category might use a decent, somewhat creative build. The under 5? The 90% of bursters that fall into this category will likely bitch at Izzy until he changes it back --Gimmethegepgun 03:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there is a good percentage that didn't notice it even got nerfed and will continue to run it. That's gonna be fun to watch. Zefir 03:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I forgot about those ones. They make up a respectable amount of the population. They're the ones with BHBC (black hole brain cells). Very dangerous condition, I assure you. I remember when they nerfed BoA (the skill) and morons were still running it like it was good and failed miserably --Gimmethegepgun 03:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wonderful, just when I find a fun non hex sin build, they hit it with a nerf... trampling ox finally gave sins who didn't run the SP combo something they could play around with, now it's screwed... HoTO isn't any better, we no longer have a good KD... haven't they already rendered us close enough to useless? --Kalas Silvern 04:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Gimmethegepgun, wth is wrong with running overpowered builds? Why do people call people who used SP/TS sins noobs when it was the best spike build there was to offer? Using creative builds that don't work is worse than using great builds that everybody uses. --76.2.20.255 05:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because the people who used them were completely incapable of conforming to any new situations, and their build required 0 thought. My belief: noob until proven otherwise. Because it holds true so much more than it is false. Besides, the intelligent people of the community make builds that ARE creative AND still work --Gimmethegepgun 23:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Whats wrong with it requiring 0 thought? Nothing. Whats wrong with using the best spiking build for assassins? Nothing. Btw, other builds people create are often effective, but always less effective. Why gimp yourself and use a less effective build in PvP where it matters when you can just use a cookie cutter that everybody uses (for a reason, too) that is the best? High ranking guilds used it. High ranking hb players used variants of it. Are they all noobs? Also, what about Hikari who actually created the build (with others' help, that is)? Is he/she a noob too? --76.2.20.255 01:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Other builds people come up with can actually do something OTHER than just kill stuff and still kill with about the same efficiency. And Hikari clearly is not a noob, since s/he was creative (like the smart people) and came up with an effective build. People that just copy him/her, however, are not being in the slightest bit creative, and as I said before, they aren't doing anything to hint that they aren't a noob, so I automatically consider them one --Gimmethegepgun 02:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's stop running shockaxe, mel's dervs, bsurge eles, etc alltogether then. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 02:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Great idea on the tree, maybe we should implement it. Also, shock axe actually requires thought process, since you have to use Shock at intelligent moments, frenzy and cancelstance properly, etc. --Gimmethegepgun 02:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

(RI)Mel's dervs are still over the top, but that's no reason not to run them. As for shock wars, fine, non-calling ES wars shouldn't be run then. –Ichigo724 02:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So, Gimmethegepgun, your saying that people using less effective but creative builds are less noobish than people running cookie cutter builds that work great? lol@u. Using less effective builds does not show experience, even if they are creative or thoughtful. Creativity doesn't mean shit. Also, don't give me that crap that there are creative builds just as effective, cuz thats completely untrue. --76.2.20.255 04:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Other builds people come up with can actually do something OTHER than just kill stuff and still kill with about the same efficiency." Way to ignore large portions of my text. Note how I say that they can do something OTHER than kill stuff as well, rather than being entirely unable to do ANYTHING besides that. They might take a couple more seconds to kill sometimes, but they: might be able to accomplish other goals, might be able to adapt to problems inserted into the environment such as blind, might be able to recover from a portion of their chain failing and still kill them, etc. --Gimmethegepgun 04:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The first and foremost priority of a build should be if it works or not. Then efficiency. Then flexibility. Creativity and thought required are extra fluff. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * While sacrificing some efficiency to provide flexibility can easily be worth it --Gimmethegepgun 04:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Although you still want to be efficient enough to be worth a spot on your team.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Though someone with no utility at all doesn't merit a slot in the slightest bit either --Gimmethegepgun 01:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Being able to kill effectively doesn't count for any utility? On an assassin thats top priority (the exception being shattering assault builds, who definitely make up their lower damage with sustained unblockable damage and debuffs).<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Killing effectively isn't utility, it's killing. Utility is the ability to accomplish other things if the situation requires it. The only thing a SP can POSSIBLY do other than pull off their combo is to snare someone with SP for the rest of their team. Except then they can just use their combo and kill them anyway, so it's not utility --Gimmethegepgun 01:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Why the hell was tomb b/p farming nerfed? Is there even a market left for anything out of there other then the rare ecto ?--<font color="Black">Sefre  Talk*Cont. 03:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * PvE is never nerfed as long as Ursan Blessing exists --Blue.rellik 03:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I had a moebius build that used abt 3 of those sin skills, and its destroyed now, anet went too far with this, nerf one skill, BLS maybe, not 5
 * Yea a nerf to the hex requiring offhand strikes would of done it... My favorite sin build is weak becuase of what they did to impale....--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 04:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Jesus what the hell was Izzy on when he decided this was a good idea? I like the Mhenlo and Ineptitude changes, but dear god they nerfed almost every other useful skill on the SP sin bar, dust echo trappers, Soul Reaping even MORE, and pets...PETS FFS Phalmatticus 04:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, technically pets themselves aren't nerfed, just builds that didn't use pets as they were intended(ie, beastmaster builds) and instead used them as nothing more than portable minion factories. The change to Impale makes me sad though. DKS01 05:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

haha go doing Inferno in DoA without pet, thats gonna suck ass :) ANET sux, this nerf sux. go play HG:L and quit GW
 * you still can kill yourself to create a golem to create a exploitable corpse for Foundry 81.69.210.23 08:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I went in today with a full B/p team on HM and though we didnt get to the end we still did well until our necro screwed up and then left so though the pets dont produce corpses the buff to barrage counters that. Though I still have to see on the lower levels Ariendil 19:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Anet...

 * They destroy several assasin skills to nerf one build that could of been culled by nerfing just one otherwise rarely used skill...
 * They destroy a farm run that is hardly profitable anymore for no apparent reason.
 * Huge over buff to monks while rit and para healers are still subpar...
 * Did that whole fiasco with arenas and HB maps...
 * Nerf the hell out of paras time and time again...
 * And cant seem to leave any money making venture alone, while certain elite pve ers will always have money while others cant get it cause it was made near impossible to farm.
 * Anets update staff is ran by idiots, or listen only to idiots, or both from what I've seen.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 05:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]]<font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 05:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Objections, where is your evidence? Until you prove it, it is a personal opinion that has taken over to your statment. These Update is against mainly overused build that is almost the symbol of profession. (Sins:some kinda of SP syle sins, or SOJ sins) (HA: Sway, some sort of it including modified and heroway) I think this update was a wakeup call or some sort to use your brain not copying of someone's. People are using builds and thats making way to generic. As for PVE I dont think this affect any at all. Certainly PVP build is change dramatically in these 2 weeks. look at the change in meta:

theres just some.
 * LOD PVP compeltely useless basically even with holy haste.
 * WoH became PVPable. Before was used only in PVE
 * HB became usable in PVP extremely because of removal of upkeep
 * SWAY is now completely useless (in the minds of those actually use it.)
 * Balanced in HA is finally taken its reign as the main theme.
 * SP sins is completely destroyed. New theme will be born.
 * Overal NRT in PVP is not as useful due to soul reaping no longer gives from spirit dying

Kullwarrior
 * Rit healers are subpar? Rits are great healers when done right. Also, money making. You want money? I've got a simple guide: Kill things. No really, guaranteed to work. You kill things, they drop loot, you get money. Hell, if you happen to have done some pve you can add: turn on Hard Mode. Cash is only difficult to get when you don't have access to high end areas (no I don't mean FoW/UW/DoA. I'm talking anywhere with enemies over lvl 20) I'm going to stop now, I have rather long views on this -Ezekiel 05:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Have fun trying to make a decent amount of money without farming. Just killing things doesn't cut it if you want to use good things. Also, we don't need to use out brains, we have PvXwiki. Why try and make new builds that suck when you could go there and get a build that actually works? --76.2.20.255 06:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I accumulated around 70 platinum by taking my time in nightfall. Maybe it isn't instant gratification, which is what you so-called farmers seem to be looking for, but that doesn't mean scrimping and saving is a waste of time. [[Image:SnagretpuddingSig.png|19px]] Snagretpudding 06:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * lol, good things? Surely you jest. You don't farm for good things, you might kill a boss a few times if they drop a green you want, but I wouldn't call that serious farming. No, serious farming is done for cash, yes you can farm greens to sell for cash (but that's for your own use). Or did you mean you farm so you can afford good things? Don't be absurd, name one thing that is expensive and NOT purely a vanity money-sink. Oh, there are such things. Skill capping would be one. But that's not what you mean is it. Vanity sinks are fine, I like my armour and weapons, but no-one ever NEEDS to farm for cash. Hell, the people who most find themselves short on cash are a) People who were run ahead (eg. to droknars) or b)People who rushed through the storyline or steps to get somewhere (say for primeval armour) Notice what these people didn't do? Kill things. And look, it's impossible for you to refute my point because you would have a very hard time farming without killing things. (maybe you could tame a black moa pet repeatedly and trade it to a tame for 100g each time) -Ezekiel 08:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd disagree. With my rit, I've done many quests, didn't run and whatnot, and I'm still short of cash. Why? Because I spend it, a LOT. I still want 3 armor sets, at least, some Rit elites, a new scythe. And with all that PvE'ing, I have 50k. That's just enough for my Norn armor. So, I disagree, Ezekiel --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 08:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to fall back on my heavy hitting point. "You kill things, they drop loot, you get money." That was my guide to getting cash. If you have a method that doesn't do that then feel free to talk about that(an example would be playing the market; buying low and selling high or even the usual discount lockpick deal). I defined a money making tactic that includes farming, so you can't be disagreeing with that. I take it that you mean when I said no-one needs to farm. I don't want to rant at you in full (because you don't deserve to be ranted at, not even as much as I have above) but keep in mind the difference between a WANT and a NEED. Yes, it's a childish distinction that is used to correct kids, but do you NEED a new scythe or 3 sets of armour? sure, you need A weapon, and max armour I think counts (including insignias and runes;but not sup vigor) but anything more than one set is beyond a need. It's perfectly valid to have several sets for different occasions, maybe a 55, and 2-3 different attribute sets alternate headpieces at least. But you've got 50k, surely that's enough for several suits of Kaineng City's finest. (yeah that's sounding too much like a personal attack, I'll stop after the next line) I never said that people will have more money than they know what to do with, just that you get enough. If you want several elite armour sets (as I do) then you'll need to kill more. Some people take a solo build and monotonously grind against a boss for drops, I prefer taking heroes and henchmen and vanquishing. I never said one was faster, I never said one was easier, but if there is more than one choice then no-one ever NEEDS to do a particular one. -Ezekiel 08:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, ok, want and need are diffrent. I see your point. I don't feel personally attacked, if that's what you meant by "(yeah that's sounding too much like a personal attack, I'll stop after the next line)", and I didn't mean to offend you with my previous message. --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 08:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Which farm run are you talking about? the bear thing in Pre? -Kumdori 08:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Who cares? Every farming trick that dies is another drop in prices at the trader and for player trading, meaning people who play the game as intended get a much better shot at the big time vanity sinks. --Ckal Ktak 08:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually... farming = overflow = more supply = lower prices. Tain 08:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I can farm greens stupidly easily, but because they're so easy, nobody pays good cash for them. The harder they make farming runs, the more money actual farmers make. And making it harder for farmers generally doesn't make any difference to people who play normally and save gold, so nothing to complain about there.
 * Also, to respond to 76.2.20.255's point; PvXWiki is a great place to find builds, yes. But people actually need to think builds up to post them... they don't post themselves. Having trouble finding a good build? Either think about it a bit and make your own, or just wait until the next cookie-cutter is submitted past the vetting process. Even trade, you either work to get a build now, or you get a build later with no effort. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  09:01, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that assassins were supposed to be able to ASSASSINATE, as in hit hard and fast but with very little defense. Once they were glass cannons, now ANET is turning them into broken skilled glass. The "Black" dagger attacks were intelligently made as offhands which required the target to be hexed, the nerf to BLS just makes that name pointless. If they wanted to address SP builds for PVP, why not just alter Shadow Prison itself? Expose Defenses has gone back to its original duration BUT with the massive recharge time stuck to it. Anet should have just reverted it back completely. All in all, it sucks that assassins are getting nerfed for being able to do what they are supposed to do in the first place: KILL. Playing the profession has always been about using the offense as the best defense, can someone please explain to me the purpose of this skill update. If PVPers fear sin spikes so much, maybe they should think about using blind or Blurred Vision more often (along with so many other anti-melee Necro/Mesmer hexes) instead of Anet having to weaken assassins so drastically.
 * It's because it was completely gamebreaking. For anyone that DIDN'T bring anti-melee, possibly because they COULDN'T, there was nothing that could be done to stop them from killing you. Nothing done to SP save a 35+ recharge would stop people from using it, and then the skill would be utterly worthless. Besides, BLS was kinda imba anyway. A skip to offhand, a very large energy gain, AND quite a bit of damage all on one skill --Gimmethegepgun 00:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's plenty you can do, i.e. not be a noob and have 600 health like all the non-retards. Also, a single heal at lower health will give you enough to survive it. After that, just get a WoH from your monk or something. --76.2.20.255 02:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, 600 health. Sorry for wanting: higher attribute levels, more armor/more energy/longer enchanting/HCT/HSR, etc. --Gimmethegepgun 02:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Anything but wars, and maybe mel's dervs should have 580+ base hp. (exceptions for important breakpoints, but no <550 plox) –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 02:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So basically you're suggesting that everyone has a sup vigor and either a health weapon mod or a minimum of 2 pieces of their armor using survivor insignias. What about the people who want a couple extra attribute points and use a major rune? Well, there's another health mod and at least 1 more survivor insignia. Well, what if someone wants 2 majors, or maybe a superior? Ooh, getting scary here! How about the people who take enchanting or HCT/HSR mods instead of health? --Gimmethegepgun 02:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They get spiked to shit and have their infuser curse at them. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 02:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Tell me, Gimme, do you know why Blockway was/is meta for a while? Because axes and AoM dervishes deal so much damage that it takes an entire team just to stop the damage they do. In Prophecies and Factions, teams were carefully crafted just to kill one person. Now, thanks to NF power creep (imbalanced skills), it takes an entire team just to prevent 8 characters from blowing up. 600 health is needed to counteract this massive power creep and to survive against spikes more easily. Using Radiants means you fail at managing your energy and any serious PvPer shouldn't need radiants unless they run Shock Axe (maybe one or two here). Also, remember to weapon swap on a regular basis so you can get the benefit of 40/40's as well as your high health/high armor sets and enchanting sets. —ǥrɩɳsɧ  ƿoɲ  02:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what about the burster itself? It used full radiant insignias didn't it? Obviously that means that their energy management wasn't good enough either. True, more energy != energy management, but sometimes you need that extra amount in order to be able to cast everything you want, or to give some leeway in case of problems. And what if you're say, a Ritualist who needs to be holding some ashes in order to have a build work right, and so you can't weapon swap? There's nothing else you can do to get the energy, and then the build won't work if you drop them to get the weapons. Then you need radiant --Gimmethegepgun 02:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "For anyone that DIDN'T bring anti-melee, possibly because they COULDN'T, there was nothing that could be done to stop them from killing you." Er... yeah, that's sort of the entire point. Do you expect casters to interrupt themselves if you don't have interrupts? Don't whine if you aren't going to counter it. It's not imbalanced - they underperform in most areas, just because they can rape your face in AB doesn't mean they're broken. - Auron 02:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How the hell is it NOT imbalanced? They kill a player in under 5 seconds if nothing is done to stop them (and that's REALLY not a very large timeframe to stop them) --Gimmethegepgun 02:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If they weren't countered by not sucking, they'd be imbalanced. Unfortunately for sins, that's all it takes and they don't kill you. - Auron 02:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So that's why SoD was meta! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, lemme pull something from up top down here. Top guilds. You'd say for the most part that they don't suck, correct? And then they still use this. If not sucking countered the burster idiots, then clearly they'd be completely worthless in these matches, no? Well, since they still did have a worth there, obviously they aren't very well countered by not sucking (responding to Auron) --Gimmethegepgun 02:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Obviously, these "Top guilds" valued winning above "honor" or "creativity". If a build is gimmick but still don't suck when you actively try to counter it, then it's imba and you may ask for nerfage to improve overall PvP quality. If a build is gimmick but fails on competent teams then perhaps you really do need a dose of creativity. Burster belonged to former category from what you're saying. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:37, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The statement I just made was using logic to turn a statement around. Also, clearly it's not me who needs a dose of creativity (if that's what you're suggesting), but them instead, seeing how before the nerf most sins in pvp used this build (or a very VERY close replication). ANet just forced it on them (or they'll just whine at him until he changes it back) --Gimmethegepgun 02:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * SP sins were more often used to gank npc's and kill players at lower % health than anything else.<font color="Black"> &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Am I missing something?
Gaile said they wanted to do something about the blockfest in PvP, then they nerf expose + Shadow Prison sins? The SP sin was just powerful I can understand, but expose? Makes no sense... And when are they finally going to kill the bloody A'Mo cookie cutters >.> -- -- talkpage 14:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Z0mGz0r!!!11one.

they nerfed shadow prison sins way to hard :(. it was my onbly way of getting pvp faction! and now im doomed >___>

so thanks anet, for yet another build nerfed to crap. this has been like my 5th build thats been nerfed but i know there are people who have many of their builds nerfed just because other people abuse them builds. ! so what do you guys think of that ******* nerf huh? were you SP sins?


 * This proves it, they WERE strong. That's why they nerfed it, sounds fair to me. But why expose? I just don't get it.. Defile Defenses is like 10 times better. --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] -- talkpage 18:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Defile still let's target foe blocks, and only damages once. You mean Riggah Mortiz? --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 18:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Ban Korean patch?
If you are korean, you probably know this already. Many of koreans were permanently banned from the server(including mine). This might not be something to do with the recent patch, but I think it is important to know what is going on after the patch or any kind of updates. Koreans who got banned contacted the local NCsoft office, but they only get the reply, "we do not have privilege to solve the account-related problems, Only ArenaNet can do such things" What a way to excuse themselves! --10:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)Pcaset
 * NCSoft Support has always been a joke. This just further proves their incompetence. Anet sends you to NCSoft for support and then they turn you back saying that only Anet can help you? gg Sirocco 12:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * kekeke ban rush :D 82.76.166.50 12:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL take that koreans!--Chris1645 16:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hooray!
Two skill Balances and Paragons haven't been Nerfed even more, a new record! --68.46.219.32 22:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Expect a nerf worth 2-3 normal nerfs coming soon, I don't think they're to the point where paragons can't be semi useful yet.--<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 22:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Since aggressive refrain's cracked armor paras have seem to "dropped off the map" in regular level of HA (R6+ can see a paraway once a week R9+ <5, R11+ <10) to be hoenst para needs to buff certain skills. Especially elites some are just not use simple they're are not useful at all. "Help Me!" perhaps the most realist skill should have like reduce energy cost on it making it more useful for bonder. otherwise its useless.

"Incoming!" Perhaps the worst elite skill in Nightfall or all time is never seen used for a PVE/PVP group. I would really want to see an update. such as one of below. Kullwarrior
 * Double the duration (6, although It would make paraspike way to strong)
 * Global Spiritbond 50dmg+ heal 50 for 5 sec at 12, 6 at 16.
 * Reduce recharging time to 10 seconds

K I dont know bout PvP(though in AB works fine with the build I use and no I'm not posting it and you wont find it on PvX wiki) but I dont understand why ppl have a dig at the paragon and how its been nerfed etc? I have on a couple of occasions now managed to get a paragon survivor(indomitable last time round so they cant be that bad!Ariendil 02:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No one's saying they're bad. If they were bad, they wouldn't be nerfed.  You only nerf things because they're good -- way too good.  Take Aggressive Refrain, for example.  The skill has been nerfed, that's indisputable -- adding cracked armor was a nerf.  But most paragons still use it.  Why?  Because it's that good.  --68.187.144.197 04:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fact is they got special nerf attention while SP sins went on all that time. And the meta sin was a lot more powerful then any para ever was. --<font color="Black">Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] Talk*Cont. 20:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

THE REAL RIP
IWAY (T/C) 04:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Does it still work with pets? --Gimmethegepgun 04:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm curious about [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * THE REAL RIP OFF GW2.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 04:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't see why not...--Carmine 05:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It probably does still work, but I remember there was a skill that required an unexploited corpse, and that wasn't stated in the skill description. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 15:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * that was bugged signet of sorrow.it's fixed now anyway 84.170.204.205 19:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It did not work for me today, I am going to retest in a second. Zulu Inuoe 21:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC) EDIT: It works. Zulu Inuoe 21:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Phew, at least ANet didn't nerf that. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Questions about the GW store upgrade.
1. GW tells me that if I buy a skill unlock pack, I'll be able to buy any NON-ELITE skill from a skill trainer in GW. What about Elite Tomes? Usually with an elite tome, you can buy any skill with a character that you previously unlocked with another character. Will I be able to buy the elite skills in roleplay mode using an Elite Tome if I unlocked them ONLY via the skill pack?


 * Yes, these packs are simply PvP unlocks. Ever since elite tomes were added you could use them to unlock any elite that you unlocked in PvP.

2. Lets say I bought all the skill packs, the item unlock pack, and own all 4 regular campaigns (and if it makes a difference, I also own GOTN and Collector's edition upgrades). Do I stand _anything_ to gain from buying the PvP access kit, or will EVERYTHING the kit would possibly offer me is already offered by my other purchases?


 * You would gain absolutely nothing by getting the PvP kit. DKS01 13:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

-

3. You play AB, RA, TA, and CM to get enough balth faction to unlock all of that on your own. >.> doesn't take long, through sheer AB'ing I've gotten enough balth faction to unlock every single non-elite skill, all mod/inscriptions, and runes. And as for elite skills, just go skill capping? Get 4 titles and all the elites unlocked for your account, then you have no need for these "packs".76.174.13.77 11:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for preaching me on what to do without actually answering my questions :/ You must work as a consultant.

Product Distribution Failed (Code 1751126)
Did anyone get this problem when trying to buy stuff from the GW store? I got it today when I try to buy anything, and just a few days ago it was working fine.

I had this same exact problem.
 * yeah, so did I. <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk) (Contr.) 17:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I did some digging around on the net and found out that many people have this problem (including me) and that ANet has been notified. hopefully they fix it soon. -Blaster 68.142.45.135 17:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Undocumented change
when you ping a condition, hex, refrain, enchantment it no longer says "I have xxx on me". It says "I am suffering from the yyy hex, listening to the zzz refrain, I'm enchanted with æææ." I've had this on my mind for a while and I'm satisfied with the more realistic pinging. Someone please make a note on this Seb2net 18:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)