Talk:Cembrien

Where does it say he created the Storm Riders?


 * The Prima Strategy Guide, if I recall correctly. 16:07, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * See The Ranger's Path. --adeyke 16:58, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Is "unleashing" synonmyous with "creating"? Maybe his grandma capturend a bunch from Ascalon, gave them to him on a leash as a birthday present, and he just... unleashed them in the desert after some magical modifications of his own ("this land" is ambiguous). -PanSola 17:46, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Is this a serious argument to which one needs to respond, or are you just having fun? --Karlos 20:52, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm serious about "Ages ago Mr. X unleashed blah upon this land", when spoken by some guy in the Crystal Desert, does not necessarily mean "Mr. X created the first blah found in Ascalon", because "this land" could've easily meant the Crystal Desert instead of the Tyrian continent or world. The part about grandma and birthday is not serious.


 * I would say that ages ago Europeans (unintentionally) unleashed small pox (or whatever disease that wiped out huge native American population back in the days) upon "this land" (I'm typing from an apartment in North America). I do not consider the Eurpoeans to have created/invented small pox. -PanSola 21:38, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Ha ha.. Now it's you who is not reading the text closely. :) Read the guy's words closely: Storm Riders, not Storm Kin. So, the whole "this land" argument is moot.
 * If you are disagreeing with the "restating" of "unleashed" as "created" or "made," your argument is a man of straw argument. Very potent within its own world of straw, very weak within the context of this discussion. True, Europeans unleashed small pox upon the native americans and that this form of unleashing is not creating, but that is your usage in your sentence in your own context. Back to the game reference, when wizards "unleash" creatures upon the world in any typical fantasy setting, that can usually be expressed as them "creating" those monsters. Context here is the key word. You can't take "unleash" and "create" out of context. i.e. The Forgotten unleashing the Enchanted and creating them is synonymous in this case. It would not be synonymous in the case of the "Titans" where they were "locked away" somewhere and the Lich Lord unleashed them. We have no reference of the Storm Riders being "locked" away behind the Door of Somali :). --Karlos 21:57, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't think it's a far stretch to consider the possibility that Storm Kins were Storm Riders mutated by Cembrien, or if Telius is just loosely calling the Storm Kins as Storm Riders. Otherwise Yxthoshth is just a lone lost high level Storm Rider among a bunch of Storm Kin who were NOT created by Cembrien?  You are assuming "this land" means "the world", and infer from that assumption that I disregarded the context.  I plead ambiguity of the context "this land" as well as "Storm Kin/Rider".  My argument is only weak if you assume "this land" means "the world (of Tyria)" instead of "the Crystal Desert", when I do not see anything that favors the former "the world" intepretation, while both Cembrien's ghost and one of his first creation (Yxthoshth) are found in the desert (which doesn't prove the "desert" interpretation, but does favor it). -PanSola 22:08, 20 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't understand you now. The Crystal Desert is uninhabited... Has refused all attempts of human habitation ever since it came from under water. I do not think Cembrien was a great mage in the Desert. Cembrien unleashed the Storm Riders on the land of Tyria. Assuming Telius is saying Storm Riders to refer to Storm Kin is (in my opinion) a weak assumption compared to assuming that "this land" refers to all of Tyria, not just the desert. --Karlos 03:08, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * The Crystal Desert has refulsed all attempts of *long-term* *human* habitation. Many groups of human come and perish.  I do not see it as unlikely (pardon the double negative) if Cembrien came to the Crystal Desert, unleashed unnatural creatures upon the desert, and then perished; OR if Cembrien came to the Crystal Desert, perished, and then his ghost unleashed the unnatural creatures upon the desert.  I hope that makes me more understandable.  I would boldly claim at least 90% (personally I believe 100%) of the ghosts we see in the Crystal Desert are people who have attempted to live there and perished within 3 generations (most or all probably didn't last a full generation is my actual guess), and Cembrien could easily have been among them. -PanSola 04:24, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * We are at the proverbial impasse, what do you propose we do about that? --Karlos 06:34, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * BTW, regarding the Prima Guide, I just checked (the ebook version), and Cembrien isn't mentioned at all in the entire guide. The only reference to "The Ranger's Path" quest is on page 199 where it's shown to give 1000 xp.  No info on where to get it, who to get it from etc. -PanSola 04:54, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

What about the Smoke Walkers in the FoW? Did Cembrien unleash them too? 00:53, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * It is my current stance that Cembrien was only responsible for the riders found in the desert. So I believe Cembrien has nothing to do with Smoke Walkers. -PanSola 01:00, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * That depends on what ANet thinks they are (which we cannot guess). :( For example, are they the same species just as the Riders and Kin seem to be the same species? Or, are they just using the same graphical model (i.e. abyssals and trolls)? I have a lot less reason to believe they are the same species than the other riders like the Wind riders and Breeze Keepers because those are all mesmers. An obvious theme. --Karlos 03:08, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I think heir collectable drop would indicate that they're more closely related to riders than abyssals are to trolls or bladed aatxes are to minotaurs. --adeyke 03:49, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


 * That's true, and I am the one who classified them as Riders to begin with. I am just saying that I would not make as strong a case for them (being in a different plane of existence) being Riders as I would for the others. Just like the Grasping Darknesses are squid-heads like the Phantoms and Kraken Spawn but they are demons while the Phantoms are, well, phantoms. --Karlos 06:34, 21 April 2006 (CDT)