Talk:Title

Article name
Should be just 'Title' not 'Character Title' because some titles are account based. --Draygo Korvan 21:36, 25 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The name of this article dates from before any information was available on it. Moved now. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 21:39, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

Format
We need to clean up the format of the titles into their appropriate catagories. Probably a table for each rank and requirement.--Draygo Korvan 21:44, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

Where did all this come from? There isn't anything in game except for the Fame title, where did the info about the others come from? LordKestrel 23:21, 25 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Judging from the history of the article I would have to say GameSpot. | Chuiu 23:23, 25 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Yep. GameSpot. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 23:28, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think the rank table is slightly confusing it probably should be ( level - title - requirement ) and follow that format for all the other in-game titles. Gamespot confirmed the levels for the elite skill capping so we can easily represent that in a table format. What do you think stabber? A general consistancy between the title catagories would be good. --Draygo Korvan 13:04, 26 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Agreed, but the tables have to be deuglified. The rank table was a 2 minute hackjob by yours truly. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 13:05, 26 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I put in a preliminary chart for the exploration titles, the ones I saw in Lion's Arch specifically. I'm curious if there is a title for 90-94.9%, I've got 97 with my main character, and not enough for titles with my others so it might be a while before I find out personally.  Anyone on the wiki got a character with that % that they want to check and add it if there is one?  --Rainith 22:56, 26 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I am at 82.2% with Gares and he is a Tyrian Trailblazer. The bar says once he reaches 90% he will become Tyrian Cartographer. --Gares Redstorm 23:05, 26 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I thought that might be it, but I couldn't find anyone with that title. I asked around and didn't get a helpful response either.  --Rainith 23:06, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

Wisdom Title Track
New thing here, you get a title when you ID 100 rare items. Catch is, this starts with items you ID today. I was doing a little ettin farming and found a Sup Vigor, so I'm at 1 ID'd right now. You might need to log out and log back in to get this to show up, I know I did. --Rainith 23:22, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Question to be answered - is it unique items or not? I can't think of 100 unique rare items, but with the addition of Factions... Probably not, still we need to check this.  --Rainith 23:27, 26 April 2006 (CDT)


 * It's not unique items. I have a score of two with a character who hasn't identified any unique items at all, let alone after the release of Factions. James 09:37, 1 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Was in Bot Central (Elona Reach) and even the users of the bots(90% of the populace was Mo/W) decided they would display their "hard-earned" titles. Saw most with the second level of Wisdom having ID'd 250 rare items, but I saw one with the third level having ID'd 550 rare items. Now that's a hard-working bot. :P --Gares Redstorm 12:47, 24 May 2006 (CDT)

Treasure Hunter Track
We need to figure out which chests are considered "high-end" - starting a list:

Prophecies Chests Factions Chests I'd guess that From darkstone down would be high end, at least. Possibly from Elonian down, but I'l like confirmation. If no one else wants to do this, I will, eventually. --Rainith 00:13, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Edit - just checked Elonian are not high end. --Rainith 00:52, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * added Kurzick, I'm up to 3 / 90... Alxa 16:25, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Theory: if henchies are lv20, then high end. If henchies aren't good enough for a place, then high end. d-: -PanSola 17:08, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * No go, henches are lvl 20 for the Canthan Chests, but those are not high end. --Rainith 17:26, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Modified theory: if henchies are NOT lv20, then definitely NOT highend. d-: -PanSola 18:01, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

I think the theory is clear: If key is 600 gold or more, then it's chest is high-end. Why tie it with henchies? The key is a very clear indicator. --Karlos 02:45, 6 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I've been doing some math for the titles to see how much platinum I would actually have to spend to get the highest level. For this title, if you don't get any key drops, would be 1,500k ((2500*600g)/1000). O.O --Gares Redstorm 09:08, 19 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Remember that each chest drops an item you can merchant for about 200, which is 1/3 of the sum, that is, 500k you get back from drops. without even counting on good drops. Foo 04:14, 20 May 2006 (CDT)


 * You could always try farming the chests in Hell's Precipice, I've gotten 2 Sup Vigor runes in 1 run there, the keys definately are more expensive than shiverpeak ones, but that run netted me a good chunk of change. --Rainith 04:16, 20 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually the chests in Hell's take darkstone keys, which are the same price as shiverpeak keys. The issue is that the speed and frequency of chests in Hell's is much lower than in Witmans Folly, for instance. --MrJerrypants


 * Yeah, I did another calculation regarding selling back the items you receive, for control, just at merchant prices. Say the average is around 275g, as I have seen a range of around 200g-450g(with 450g items being more rare). The cost then would be, give or take, around 812.5k. This does not take into account if you can actually sell the items you recieve to other players for much more. However, its seems to be getting harder and harder to sell mods these days as everyone is looking to buy an already modded green item. I, myself, think the best weapons in the game are those you mod yourself to fit your style of play and skillset, but thats me. --Gares Redstorm 07:54, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

Tyria mission completion title
Is this rank account specific or character specific? I see it on only one of my chars, not on all of them, which is weird. This is the character that has the least fraction completed even... I'm confused &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 00:22, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't think you get the title until you complete a mission/bonus with each character (since the update). That has been the way it has been with me for all the titles except the map completion one.  --Rainith 00:24, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I just redid The Great Northern Wall and saw no change in my titles tab. If that means it has to be a mission/bonus that character hasn't done yet, it's going to be difficult. --adeyke 00:39, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Of my three PvE characters, two of them have the mission and skill capture title progress bars listed in the window. I haven't done anything at all with any of my characters since patching. The one character that's missing the two bars is the first I logged in as. All my characters have the fame and exploration bars. --68.142.14.16 00:44, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I would guess that it is a bug that Anet will address. --Rainith 00:52, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

No it's not a bug, beating Doppleganger is the 25th mission. It is a mission and it has a bonus :-) --Rai 22:38, 20 may 2006, GMT
 * That's not what we were talking about. --68.142.14.9 17:20, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

Drunkard Title
LOL, that is great. Any one want to figure out how much it would cost to get this title at 200 per Dwarven ale? I just dropped 1 plat on 5 of them and I got 3 minutes from it. --Rainith 01:16, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Going off the basis that 5 gives you 3 minutes... 333400 gold. | Chuiu 01:34, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Thank you it is much too late and I am much too tired to do the math. :P  --Rainith 01:36, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Suddenly a good use is found for Witch's Brew and Spiked Eggnog. :) --DaveK 10:07, 27 April 2006 (GMT)
 * Finaly, a title to honor my Irish heritage. I was doing some in game expiriments and found that it takes 2 dwarven ales to get one minute. And at 200 per ale I found that it would take 400k to get drunkard, a very nice even number, if you ask me. Something I also think is important to note is that 1000 minutes translates to 16 hours and 40 minutes, better get drinkin boys! --Mystic 02:55, 30 April 2006 (CST)
 * In Talk:Dwarven Ale someone said said that it takes 3 ales for 2 minutes of drunkness, which means 300k and the same time. About 17 hours as you will have small intervals with drinking a new set each time. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 08:29, 30 April 2006 (CDT)
 * You must to drink 3 ales to get drunk and then after you get drunk you can make it to 1 ale/minute--83.102.28.69 04:31, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, if thats the case, (and it would certanly make sense, just gotta keep the buzz) then all you need is 1002 ales at 200,400g. Still a lot of cash, but its half of what I first assumed. The title is acheivable once again! Mystic 01:21, 3 May 2006

The Drunkard track is another tiered title. To obtain the second tier "Incorrigible Ale-Hound", your character must spend 10,000 minutes drunk. --Mumblyfish 14:00, 01 May 2006 (GMT)
 * Wow, someone actually put in the time for that title. Very impressive. Now get to work spending 167 hours drunk so we can find the next title. :) LordKestrel 17:09, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

Kind Of A Big Deal
From this GWG forum thread, screenshot link is (currently) near the bottom of the page. From the screen shot, all the words in the title are capitalized. --Rainith 01:56, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Protector of Tyria
The Protector of Tyria title lists it as being #/25, but there are only 24 missions total in Tyria. What's up? --aCynicalPie 17:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Maybe the Zaishen Challenge counts as a mission, too? It has the same icon. Also, there are quite a few people wondering why that title isn't showing up with their chars (including me). I do have all the regular mission + bonusses on one of my chars, but I don't see even the progress bar. --84-175 (talk) 17:29, 27 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This title was added at 21:15 CDT in the update on 27 April 2006


 * Seems like the titles just have some issues that ANet needs to work out then. But I guess that's one of the reasons they do the preview events in the first place. Maybe I'll try out doing the Zaishen Challenge and see what that does. --aCynicalPie 00:07, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Just want to confirm this title really exist: I got the title, but I also have the Zaishen Challenge.


 * They fixed it. The title is now showing up on my char, without the Zaishen Challange. Also, the progression on several more titles is showing now, which weren't displayed before. Looks like it was a bug after all. :) --84-175 (talk) 01:52, 28 April 2006 (CDT)

Good point about 25 missions instead of 24. Two possibilities come to mind, the Academy mission with Rurik or the Ascension fight with the Doppelganger. It's one or the other. I think it's the Rurik mission. --Karlos 02:32, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I'll start a new character to test if I get a mission from the academy. However, as the title includes mission+bonus, I suspect it is the ascension as it has a bonus too. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 07:30, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Fairly certain that since there is a bonus mission from ascension (fast kill of doppelganger) that it is a mission.--Epinephrine 08:23, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * With the update that fixed the titles, all three of my characters are now showing as having "completed" the extra mission, so it probably is the Doppleganger fight. Someone that has not completed the bonus for it would need to try completing it and seeing if it changes the percentage. --aCynicalPie 13:34, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * As far as I can tell that's a negative on the Academy mission with Rurik. At least my N/R got her 1/25 only after finishing The Great Northern Wall and bonus. --MRA 14:14, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Ascension is considered one of the 25 missions in Prophecies. ArenaNet has generally talked about the 25 missions as a bullet point for the game, etc.  Ascension gives the regular icons for mission + possible bonus when you finish it (the shield with crossed swords).  It's still different from most missions, obviously, but I'd always assumed that was one of the 25 missions.  --JoDiamonds 09:56, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

Actually, if you go to the Map Travel view and count the white pushpins that represent mission areas, you get 25. I think what everyone may be forgetting is that the Dragon's Lair mission also counts towards this title. --DaveBaggins 03:13, May 6 2006 (CST)


 * You misscounted. See Image:MissionSequence.jpg. 24 missions, including Dragon's Lair. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 03:45, 6 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I stand corrected. :-) --DaveBaggins 04:01, May 6 2006 (CST)

Is it possible to get this title with a Factions character? Mine wasn't able to enter the Great Northern Wall -mission, at least.


 * Not possible (almost 100% sure), as the few missions before LA are locked. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|Gem]] 15:05, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

A new issue has recently been raised: seeing as the title does have the [1] after it, it stands to reason that there are multiple tiers of titles of the Tyrian mission complete line. Could it be that all the missions must be beat again with bonuses to constitute seeing gain towards another level? Someone please confirm...


 * If you mouse over it, it doesn't say what the next title level is. That means that there is only one level in it. 128.2.141.33 00:24, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Right now it REQUIRES getting the bonuses to get anything. I don't see how you can have a second level. -PanSola 04:42, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe its account based and shows how many of your characters had done it all. Ex. If two of your characters get the title, then it will show "Protector of Tyria(2)"
 * To be exact, it says "You have earned Protector of Tyria, which is the greatest Tyria Mission Completion title." which pretty much says (to me, at least) that this line's maximum is (1/1) -- I am pretty sure that this has no account-wide implications. The number is simply there as a standard part of the title system. Also, my "Kind of a Big Deal" line appeared right when I got this one (my first max title) so I'm now pretty sure with sugar on top that "1" means squat.--Ishmaeel 15:43, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

I'm reasonably sure that beating the doppleganger counts as a mission, with the bonus as beating it in under 50 seconds.--Mr Emu 21:22, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

Exploration 100% possible or not?
Prophecies: I have 97.4% and only really really small parts in a few missions missing. Does the game expect you to explore every area as a rectangular, even if it is not possible in many places? Yes, I DO walk around all walls in all areas. Millimeter by millimeter. Seriously. I even have the hidden area in Dunes of Despair mission.

Factions: Some of the Shing Jea Isle area is locked from non-canthan characters. Does this mean impossible 100% exploration for tyrians? --Gem 07:30, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I have seen screenshots of people with 100% explorer (see the link in the section above about the Kind Of A Big Deal title). I'm at 96.7% myself, so I'm going to have to spend some time searching too.  --Rainith 10:10, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * EDIT - Interesting thing is that it seems ANet has put a bit of a buffer in for the exploration title, as if you read the thread in the link I mentioned people with 100% still have some "fog" in areas of the map (seems not many people like to explore all of the Dunes of Despair mission area). --Rainith 10:12, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * That feels lame. If people don't need to explore all the areas I have to get 100% them I quit. *grumpy* Oh well, I can't get everything, alteast I got the title thing I had been dreaming of. Now I have still got the Cantha question unanswered, but that might take some time. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 12:08, 28 April 2006 (CDT)


 * What about the Underworld, FoW, Ruins of Tombs, Sorrows Furnace, ... ? Are these considered part of Tyria? Do you have to explore them for the title? And what about Pre-Searing? --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif]]  02:56, 3 May 2006 (CDT)


 * No, none of those count. --adeyke 03:01, 3 May 2006 (CDT)


 * What I saw when comparing the maps of those who had 100% to my own (97.6%) was that they had the old arena maps unlocked, none of which I have. I don't know if this has a big say in it, but I'm bringing it up just in case. Would this mean 100% exploration is only available to characters that fought in the arenas before the introduction of the battle isles?


 * I think Arenanet added a big enough buffer so that anyone can get 100%. As mentioned, some ppl with 100% don't even have the secret area of the Dunes of Despair mission. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 01:10, 4 May 2006 (CDT)


 * True, one guy didn't, but they all had the arenas. I'm at 98.3% now, and I'm very close to uncovering everything that's possible. I'm pretty sure you need those arenas to get 100%. And I think Anet added extra percentages in those arenas and that they don't need to be explored in theory, but since it seems impossible to get 100% of the squares on map because of limitations in the terrain, you have to.


 * So which arenas are these? Something which I might have aquired? Something that I can get? --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:50, 4 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Possibly. It's the old Droknar's Arena (west of Droknar's), Henge of Denravi (east of Denravi), Ring of Fire (south-east of Perdition Rock), D'Alessio (island south of Kryta) and Amnoon (just north the town). Check your map if you have them, but you can't get there anymore since the introduction of the PvP Isles as I understand it.


 * Ok, I understand. I have them all, but some not fully explored. :( That shouldn't be a barrier for me then, I just have missed some critical borders of some areas. *going to check them all* --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 13:45, 4 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, I see I was probably wrong in that you need the arenas to get 100%. I'm at 99.7% now, and I have been pretty close to everywhere. Still missing a little tiny bit though. I guess the arenas are just a bonus.

On a related note; can Tyrian characters that come over to Cantha get a 100%? The first two missions on the island seem to be unavailable to them; they can explore all of the island except for those. Has anyone gotten far enough along yet on the Canthan exploration to know if 100% can be done with Tyrain characters? --161.88.255.140 10:57, 4 May 2006 (CDT)


 * It seems that, for the moment, Tyrian characters cannot attain 100% Cantha Exploration and vice-versa. The first two missions in Cantha are locked out for Tyrian characters, and all "low-level" missions until Lion's Arch are locked out for Canthan characters: they can travel to, but not start/participate in said missions (they get a lame message about their character "not belonging to the correct campaign").
 * The reason for these limitations is unknown. Some claim it might have to do with the different timeline for the two campaigns, but given that you travel through time all the time (sorry for the play on words), and can skip half of the game with the Beacon's Perch -> Droknar's Forge run, I'm not convinced at all. --Akaraxle 11:20, 8 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Someone posted that if you take a Tyrian character to Cantha and change their secondary profession there they can then do the Shing Jea Island missions, can anyone confirm this? And if so has anyone tried doing that with a Canthan character in Tyria?  --Rainith 11:39, 8 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Not true. I could neither find any quests in the Monastery or at Togo's, nor would they let me into the Minister's Estate, after changing secondary to Assassin on my Tyrian Warrior. Looks like another piece of speculation going rampant. --84-175 (talk) 11:50, 8 May 2006 (CDT)


 * What 84-175 said, I've never heard of such a thing either. A little off-topic: are Canthan characters able to do the quests (including those that give skills as a reward) before Lion's Arch? --Akaraxle 02:13, 9 May 2006 (CDT)

I would like a confirming screenshot which shows that a character can get both Tyrian and Canthan 100% exploration. If so, great job Anet! --Gem 03:07, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Great news by Gaile Gray. :) --84-175 (talk) 03:01, 17 May 2006 (CDT)


 * My life is saved! Now I might even play more . ;) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|User:Gem]] 05:13, 17 May 2006 (CDT)


 * But is it possible for a Tyrian character to get 100% Canthan exploration without entering the Monastery Overlook and the Arena, considering that it's still not possible to enter these areas?


 * Hope so. Only time will tell. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 10:37, 28 May 2006 (CDT)


 * They can enter that area now, note the latest game updates 131.128.96.35 10:43, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Survivor
Does that indeed mean you have to have 0 deaths as soon as you reach 140600 total, or can you also accumulate that much XP without dying later? --84-175 (talk) 18:49, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Isn't 140600 xp what you need to get level 20? It would make sense to have to survive to level 20 without dying to get this title. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 08:26, 30 April 2006 (CDT)

If I were going for Survivor, I would probably try to do it with a Monk primary, and if I started to get in trouble ever, F12. I wonder if PvP deaths count? --Tjoneil 18:29, 30 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I would guess that any death that increases your /deaths count, counts. i.e. when your brand new Canthan character is killed during the explanation of resurrection shrines, that doesn't count.  --Rainith 19:15, 30 April 2006 (CDT)
 * It's 140k experience without dieing. You can do it when you're already at level 20. It's probably easiest from 1-20, though, as you get so much exp from quest rewards. LordKestrel 19:04, 30 April 2006 (CDT)
 * This will increase leaving during missions/PvP/whatever. Great job Anet! Didn't you want to make people leave LESS?! --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:14, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * In short, does this mean it doesn't matter if your existing character has deaths or not, as long as you get that 140600 without dying during that period?
 * Thats what LordKestrel said. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 17:33, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * A guildie and me went to test it. it is known that the "survivor" counter apears at around 14k. we went to the UW as ss55, and after 15kxp from quests, plus around 4k from monsters, the counter did not apear. My interpertation for this will be that you must get the FIRST 140600xp without dying. Foo 17:40, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * What if quest rewards don't count? (Ok, that would be cruel and I probably am wrong)--Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 18:29, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Another guildie just got it by geting 140600xp, and, well, a major part of that, is obviously, quest xp. Foo 18:37, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I am very sure this is: "Get to 140600xp without dieing", as opposed to "get 140600 without dieing". --Xeeron 11:36, 3 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I concur as well. I spent approx. eight hours going through the Summit Slaves series of quests and the Kaineng Center quests, accumlating well over 200,000 exp. points without dying and this title has never shown up.  I feel somewhat cheated as this title appears to be only open to newly created characters :-( At least I have gotten about 15 skill more points out of it.  --DaveBaggins 18:16, May 4 2006 (CST)


 * Looks like I was wrong about this. I just took a char who has died 51 times, got myself killed a 52nd time, and then earned 600k exp, and no title. LordKestrel 22:32, 5 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, that sucks. I'll clarify the article then, I think. --Tinarto 03:07, 9 May 2006 (CDT) Edit: Oh, nevermind, I didn't see Using the command /deaths must return a zero.

Does failing a mission (e.g. Togo dies, party dies and returns to outpost) increase your /deaths count? --Akaraxle 10:43, 15 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I tested the non-death failure case in the Northern Wall mission. Failing the mission due to time running out at the end, although seems to result in insta-death, the death count does not go up. I'd expect this to hold true for all other missions with failure conditions other than wipeout. But I also would not take that gamble, if I were reaching for the survival title.--Ishmaeel 08:00, 17 May 2006 (CDT)
 * The true test would be to creat a new character, "die" in this manner, and get 11kxp, and see if the title bar is still running. Foo 17:12, 17 May 2006 (CDT)
 * ...this brings up another question; when you get the first title, and then die, how does the title bar shown? Foo 17:12, 17 May 2006 (CDT)
 * That's what I wanna know too. Just made it to the first level. Wanna keep my title but staying alive always is a bit tedious... --Machlie 19:08, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
 * When you die after you earn Survivor, you keep the title but the bar that keeps track of your highest XP at the time of death (the title line track, in other words) is frozen with that exact number. You can continue to display it proudly.--Ishmaeel 07:18, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

Can anyone confirm that it's 587,500 and 1,337,500 and not ,600 on both of them? Adding 100 would make them divide into equal levels. 587,600 would divide into 26 levels after 20 and 1,337,600 would divide into 76 levels after 20. Maybe thats worth noting also. (T/C) 10:31, 23 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, I can confirm this, having grinded my way to Legendary with one character. I noticed the same thing and thought it to be slighly odd. — egads talk 18:07, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

90 Elite Skills?
Just how are you meant to get 90+ elite skills for one character? Because by my count you would have to change your secondary many times to reach that limit, unless you can only od it with the faxtions elites too?
 * um, what exactly is wrong with changing secondary many times? It sounded like exactly how it was intended. -PanSola 03:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * If you didn't know, changing secondary profession is possible after completing certain quests. You can make unlimited changes after you have unlocked a certain secondary profession. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 03:52, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

Maximize Your Beer Time
I recently bought quite a bit of beer to add to my drunkard title, and when I used about 30 at the same time I noticed that my vision was extremely blurred. That's not what surprised me though. What surprised me is that I didn't get nearly enough time as I thought I would, instead I received only a few minutes, around 3. I have a slow connection and have trouble seeing the drunkedness effect some times, so I can't test it. I'd also like to know if the holiday beers and Hunter's Ale have different drunkedness times. I'll try some testing of my own, but don't count on me too much. - 170.76.20.253 9:21 AM central time... hope I signed that right.
 * Only use 3 at a time and use them every 2 minutes to maximize your ... plasterdedness? | Chuiu 16:22, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

Do you know this to be a fact, or are you guessing, and does this also include Hunter's Ale?
 * Someone tested this. See Talk:Dwarven Ale. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 11:10, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
 * There was a good post (which I cant find atm) at guildwarsguru about drunkness. The author claimed that it is "level based" (not the character level): For each drink drunk, the "level" raises by one. The maximum level is 5, and with a level of 3 or higher, you are considered drunk. Each minute, your level decreases by 1. Haven't tested this, but it sounds very possible and would mean that you need 1002 drinks to get the title in the best case. --Xeeron 11:44, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Does this work on Hunter's Ale too? If so, I can use up my extra Monastery Credits on Hunter's Ale! --161.88.255.140 11:48, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
 * See Drunk for the drinks that get you drunk. I honestly haven't tested each one to confirm that they all work for the title, but I'm 90% positive that they do.  --Rainith 11:52, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

My ritualist drank 2 absinthe and no drunk progression appeared :S Skuld  16:46, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
 * General concensus is that you must drink 3 to become drunk, then 1 additional each minute to remain drunk. --Rainith 16:55, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

I have experiemented with Dwarven and Hunter's ale and have ~100 minutes towards my title. The effects are definitely "level" based. Each ale consumed in a short period of time increases the "level" and the visual effect. 3 "levels" seems to be the minimum required to receive credit for "drunkeness". Level 5 appears to be the maximum. You do not appear to receive credit towards the title for any ale consumed beyond level 5. Through careful application of additional ales, I have been able to stretch the actual time that the visual effects of levels 4 and 5 apply to ~90 seconds per ale consumed. Unfortunately, despite the longer visual effect I did not appear to receive additional time towards my title (the ratio appears to be 1 minute of credit per ale). I will do more testing soon as I have aquired nearly 500 ales. --JoJo 18:59, 18 May 2006 (CDT)


 * People willing to sacrifice themself for science taking upon them the horrible task of drinking tons of ale. I am glad for the heroic few ;-) --Xeeron 04:49, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

Glads title
Is this 25 10-consecutive-win runs since Factions was released, or ever? Because I'm pretty sure I have many of these, but I don't have the progress bar on any of my characters, PvP or PvE. Shandy 09:44, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Since titles was in place, I most certainly have not opened 2 chests and ID'd 1 rare item :) Skuld  09:51, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Many titles began tracking progress only when the titles were introdiced, because the game didn't have any reason to track them before. Use your brains in these cases. Why would the game have tracked your chests or consecutive wins earlier? No reason. But it did track your missions and map exploration ofcourse. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 11:21, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, it is still useful to know for sure what it tracked previously. But yes, it definitely did not start tracking that stuff until Titles were added.  I'm sure I had Gladiator before (or at least enough for it to show progress!), but nothing was there to start with. --JoDiamonds 16:15, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure Shing Jea arena wins count towards Gladiator title too, not only Random and Team Arena victories. If someone can check Ascalon and Shiverpeaks Arenas that would be great.


 * Shing Jea arena does count: It was the only arena I played in since Factions was released and I got a point in gladiator. --Xeeron 09:28, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

Can someone verify the validity of the Deadly Glad title? I sincerely doubt that the number of wins is such a haphazard number as 168, when all other titles have nice "round" numbers.--4.248.91.110 05:18, 19 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm also skeptical, and curious about the mention of Gladiator's Arena, which others have said Gaile said was removed from the game. --JoDiamonds 14:15, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Max level for a Title
We need to have some indication in the article listing what the maximum rank that can be reached for each Title is (assuming it is known of course). LordKestrel 09:32, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I've added ...More to be added... to each title that "asks" fot it. when players get to the lastest title and see that there is no next one, they could remove it. Foo 14:00, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Are you sure that there are maximum levels for such things as identifying items and opening chests? They could continue indefinitely. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|Gem]] 15:08, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * The names must stop somewhen, and even if not, we need this note, to let readers know there might be more. Foo 15:49, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I removed the "...More to be added..." as I personally hate seeing that. It just looks plain bad IMO, and there is very little point in using it.  Should we mark what the top level for each title is?  Yes.  Is the "More to be added" line the best way to do it?  Hell no.  --Rainith 16:55, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

Exploration
Can anyone explain the next sentance, which is under Exploration based titles? ''Like the mission based Title, you cannot COMPLETE (grandmaster cartographer) as you are unable to explore the regions within the missions. Thus being unable to attain the full 100% map'' I do not have any idea what it tries to say. Foo 15:58, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Took care of that. Hopefully it's clear now. :) --84-175 (talk) 17:15, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I saw it. gj. thanks. Foo 17:55, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

I'm not certain if I can get Grandmaster Cartographer now... I didn't go to the arena mission when I was under level 10. While I can still go to the *area* I cannot enter the mission. I'm sitting at 98.2% Canthan Master Cartographer currently. Or perhaps I need access to areas that only being in guild/alliance allows... I hope not. I've explored all but one or two little tiny spots as far as I can tell. - Greven 23:04, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
 * 99.3%... and as far as I can tell there are no other spots left, after running the walls of everywhere. :( - Greven 14:34, 27 May 2006 (CDT)

Leetsoo!!
I just can't help but wondering, if the number 1,337,500 for the Legendary Survivor title has some numeric meaning, (like the first Survivor, which is level 20), or did they pick it to say that anyon who gets this title must be just so 1337! [?]. Foo 16:03, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Hehe, I thought immediately about it when I saw the nuber and came to a conclusion that it's a little joke. 1337 indeed. :D --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|Gem]] 01:37, 8 May 2006 (CDT)

Champion Title
Someone on TGH claimed that "high-rated GvG battles" means both guilds, the winner and the loser, must have at least 1500+ rating for the progression towards the title to occur. But I want to hear some tangible proof before editing the article. --Akaraxle 10:42, 8 May 2006 (CDT)


 * 1st	The Last Pride	EvIL	Kr	1647	100	10
 * 2nd	War Machine	WM	Kr	1624	110	15
 * 3rd	Esoteric Warriors	EW	Eu	1596	105	9
 * 4th	I Guild I	iGi	Am	1519	77	9
 * 5th	Treacherous Empire	Te	Am	1518	40	3
 * 6th	The Benecia Renovatio	RenO	Kr	1513	104	15
 * 7th	オレがこやんど	こやんど	Ja	1511	96	19
 * 8th	Rank Three Plus Pug	Deer	Am	1510	83	7
 * 9th	We Still Pwn Charr	Char	Am	1506	72	13
 * 10th	Irresistible Blokes	iB	Eu	1496	59	8
 * 11th	Real Teazer	DoM	Eu	1494	83	29

So any guild matches between top 9 guilds are high rated, but iB vs DoM would not be? I dont think so, Anet cant possibly be that elitist. --Xeeron 13:02, 8 May 2006 (CDT)
 * If you start with the view point that not everyone has to be able to earn every title, it kinda makes sense. LordKestrel 19:23, 8 May 2006 (CDT)


 * There's also the fact that usually, at the end of a season, the top ~50 guilds have more than 1500 rating. That means, if your guild was a top50/100, you would only earn a few points in the last days of the season, which means it would probably require several reasons for you to attain the Champion title. But again, I've only heard this "1500+ rating" from one source, so I cannot consider it reliable yet. --Akaraxle 02:09, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * OK, a very reliable source (alpha tester) confirmed to me the contested claim: both guilds need to have more than 1500 rating for the Champion "counter" to increase. I'm going to edit the article and add this information. --Akaraxle 15:28, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

Only the top 14 guilds beating any of the other top 14 have any chance of even trying this. The skill hunter rank 3 title and treasure hunter titles are impressive, but this is a little to unreachable! Skuld  17:14, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

DragonSlayer
Do we know if there actually is a Dragonslayer title, as this is mentioned in an official guide. The only dragons I know of are the lvl 30 Bone Dragon in Majesty's Rest, and the one that appears as part of the Undead Hordes quest in Beetletun.
 * Dragon's: Glint, Rotscale & Rotscale (Boss), Kuunavang. (Warning, spoilers included) I don't know about the title. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|Gem]] 17:32, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Just adding the 2nd rotscale to Gem's list. I know nothing about this title personally.  --Rainith 17:43, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * 1. It's Prima again, and I don't really trust them. 2. If the title is real, it will again bring up an interesting question of Drake vs Dragon. -PanSola 17:44, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * If you are talking of non boss too, then there are two in the Fow and some in Kryta's swamps. Foo 17:56, 9 May 2006 (CDT)


 * More detail on Krytan non boss bone dragons: there should be two in The Black Curtain, east of the Temple of the Ages. You can find another couple in the Riverside Province (Mission), south-east corner of the map. --Akaraxle 03:52, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

None of those, except for Glint or Kuunavang are right. The rest, according to this own site, are classified as the Undead. This includes bone dragons as well, they are only undead. As of now, the only true dragons known are all the profession-specific bosses leading up to Glint, Glint herself, and Kuunavang. Note: I am currently in the process of getting to ~50 dragon kills to see if a title progress activates. Confirmation should come soon.


 * Title progress should activate at the first slaying of a Dragon, which is how all other title progressions work. If you have not got a title progression bar after killing even one dragon either the title does not exist or the foes you are slaying are not considered to be dragons.--Acca 10:30, 11 May 2006 (GMT)


 * That is not eintirely correct. Survivor title progress will not show up until you reach about 10k XP. It is possible that there are other, similarly "hidden" titles. But that aside, I'm quite sceptical about the existence of this title, too. :) --84-175 (talk) 06:12, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I've slain Rotscale in Majesty's Rest twice, Rotscale (Boss) like everyone who does Sanctum Cay (Mission), but never slew Glint. No sign of progress has appeared for me. --Akaraxle 10:45, 12 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Since factions came out I defeated (on different characters) both Kuunavang and Glint (note that you dont actually kill either of them). No dragon slayer title to be seen yet. But then, my scepticism seems to be wrong with the Champions title, I'll be careful here now, hehe. --Xeeron 13:03, 15 May 2006 (CDT)
 * There are some actual dragons just east of Jade Flats (Archipelagos) which I came across. Since I was unfogging (mapping) the area with henchies, I never attempted to try killing one of them.  There are about 3 to 5 of them nested there. I am writing this from memory, so I can not confirm the actual location, but it is around the Jade Flats. --DaveBaggins 22:36, May 18 2006 (CST)

There may be several dragons to slay but after slaying several (probably about 30 or so) dragons I haven't seen any indication that I'm soon to be a dragonslayer. (T/C) 23:47, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

Friend of the Kurzicks
Friend of the Kurzicks does not seem to be character based but account based, can anyone comfirm this for luxons aswell?
 * By defenision, it's Faction based, and Faction points are account based. wwwtp. Foo 18:02, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

225 elite skills?
It appears the article has been updated to reflect 225 elite skills needed for Expert Skill Hunter. Since I only count 181 elite skills in chapter 1&2, I am assuming the "missing" 44 will be likely contained in chapter 3, which I understand is coming out later this (or next) year? --DaveBaggins 18:29, May 20 2006 (CST)


 * I count 180, but I imagine the next 45 would be added to the next chapter. I'm thinking it would look something like 10 for assassin and ritualist and 4 for every other class except mesmer which would get 5.  Or maybe not. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  18:37, 20 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I doubt Assassin and Ritualist will make it to Ch3. --Karlos 18:48, 20 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Why do you say that? [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 18:59, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Because they are Factions Campaign professions? Just like you cannot create them in Prophecies either... - 22:38, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Still, we have no idea whether or not new skills will be added for them in Chapter three or not. It would be pretty boring if the six core professions got new skills ever chapter and the two new professions in each chapter got their initial skills with the chapter and then no more additions were made, and it would also give much more variety to the core professions as more chapters are released and more skills for them added. --Acca 06:14, 21 May 2006 (GMT)
 * But ANET themselves stated that they would continue adding content to in the way of standalone expansions (much like MTG). Wouldn't this imply more content for A and Rt classes aswell? [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 08:40, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I cannot say for certainty, but wouldn't it be unfair if you purchased a "standalone" product, but some of the things that come with that produce are only available if you have bought a prior product? I don't think we'll be able to create Ritualists and Assassins if we buy Campaign 3 alone. Unless they revamp the entire "Core Profession" concept... - 08:52, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Depending how far you want to take the analogy to Magic, there's a lot of things you could extrapolate. Old expansions get obsoleted and new cards are added and old ones removed from the core set with new editions.  Balance issues get exponentially harder to manage if you keep adding large amounts of cards unless you throw out old ones (unless you want to keep the variation between cards small, which is boring).  In GW, skills are like cards, campaigns are like expansions, and the core professions/skills are the core edition cards.  I don't think it particularly makes sense to expect or not expect more A/Rt skills in the third campaign.  Everything is pure speculation till ANet says something.  --68.142.14.9 09:13, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I personally think it's gonna look like this: two new professions are added in campaign 3, all professions have their core skills, some campaign only skills, the 6 main get another set of duplicate skills (because without, it wouldn't be playable if you only have Chapter 3).
 * I highly doubt 2 new professions. ANET has hinted they wont be adding more in the next campaign.  Cant remember which interview it was in though. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  10:37, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
 * ArenaNet has said that each new expansion will have two new professions in it, but I'd have to search to find where that was, but I definitely remember them saying two new ones per expansion. I don't know if that will continue to be true forever, but I'd expect it for at least the next one.  Also, when you look at the fact that Assassins and Ritualists don't have core skills (only core professions do), I'd bet money that there won't be new Assassin or Rit skills in C3.  They are instead saving that design space for new professions and additions to the Core professions.   In short, I'd expect C3 to look a LOT like Factions: Two entirely new classes with their own skills for C3, and a few new & duplicate skills for the six core classes.  --JoDiamonds 14:10, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Kind Of A Big Deal and Final tiers of titles
Ok, so on the website, shouldn't it indicate the end of titles or if there is more to come? I'm having a hard time deciding on what to do for Kind Of A Big Deal. Should I really start a new character for the survivor title? Or is the 1337 amount not the max xp? Supposedly you can't get the mission or map title from the other campaign meaning the only known title maxes are the home mission and map. After that, what else is there to be certain of that has been completed?


 * The four max titles that are easiest to get are: Protector of Cantha/Tyria and Grandmaster Explorer of Cantha/Tyria. You know these are max because after getting them if you hover your mouse over them it doesn't say what the next level is. After that, the next easiest to max out would be Expert Skill Hunter. The rest require a lot of grind. Unfortunately, until Arena Net opens up Cantha for all Tyrian chars (and vice versa), and also adds enough elites to get up to 225, there is no way to get all five maxed titles. I am currently 2/5 with Tyrian prot and explorer... 63.211.169.142 08:33, 23 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I guess the question is: Are the highest levels displayed here actually the highest possible (and if so, we should say so), or is there a next level once you reach the highest level displayed here? --Xeeron 08:54, 23 May 2006 (CDT)


 * The only ones I am certain about are Protector and Grandmaster Explorer. As I said above, if you hover your mouse over them it doesn't say what the next level is, and I got 1 Kind of a Big Deal point for both Protector of Tyria and Grandmaster Explorer of Tyria titles. No idea about the other titles. Koyashi 10:37, 23 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I added a note to the Drinking Title, indicating that the second level is the highest possible level there. LordKestrel 11:41, 23 May 2006 (CDT)

New characters have it easy, the million xp one would be a lot faster than the skills one. Wonder who will get the hero title maxed! And what will happen when they create rank 18? Skuld  08:57, 23 May 2006 (CDT)

"Kind Of A Big Deal" doesn't even sound like the max for this type of title, "Kind Of..." --Jamie 08:59, 23 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Heh, "Kind Of A Big Deal" - 5 maxed. "Sort Of A Big Deal" - 10 max. "Some Big Deal" - 20 max. "A Big Deal" - 50 max.  "The Big Deal" - 100 max q-: - 11:30, 23 May 2006 (CDT)
 * and when you get a number overflow error, "No Big Deal" - 11:31, 23 May 2006 (CDT)

Okay, so we know of five titles so far that are completely maxed-out: The two exploration titles, the two protector titles, and the drinking title. In a few weeks when Anet opens up all of the missions, 5 definate titles will be possible. Other than those, noone knows the limits on the other nine titles (Champion, Gladiator, Hero, two Faction ones, Skill Hunter, Chest-opening, Identification, and Survivor). I have a sneaking suspicion that there are only 6 tiers to both Chest and ID titles (both of which end at 5000) as well as there only being 3 tiers to Survivor. On a final note, what would happen upon getting the final tier for Kind of a Big Deal title line? Wouldn't that in effect give you another point in that title category, thus making it not yet mastered yet? Is this an endless paradox that can never be fixed? (Off-topic, I think the Big Deal line has three total tiers, which would make sense seeing as 15 total titles can be "maxed"). --207.99.40.142 12:09, 24 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has it been stated that all the missions will be opened by ANet? Is your note on the maximum levels you added to Chest and ID titles based on your assumptions, or have you obtained them and know that there is nothing more after that? Lord Ehzed


 * Auntie Gaile wrote so here. --84-175 (talk) 12:29, 24 May 2006 (CDT)


 * 84-175 to the rescue! I'm pleased to here this. Thanks! Lord Ehzed 12:38, 24 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I personally have the Master Treasure Hunter title on my Warrior, and it both adds a point to the "Kind of a Big Deal" title track as well as upon hovering over states that I have earned the greatest title available. In addition, I have two sources who have told me that the 6th wisdom title requires 5000 identifications, which makes sense if you look at it side-by-side with the chest title track: they both line up exactly.  I would assume that since the chest track ends at 6, so does the wisdom.--Tarutaru 15:37, 24 May 2006 (CDT)

Quest Titles
Why is there no quest title? I would have thought that this would have been a very good use of the new title system. "Tyrian / Canthan Questmaster" for the completion of all the quests in each continent! What do you think? --The True Bim 04:49, 28 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Would be very nice indeed. We would see a lot of them as it isn't that hard, but still would be nice. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 05:36, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

suicidal
Added, one of my friends on ventrilo said he has it; confirm? --Tinarto 21:12, 31 May 2006 (CDT)


 * If he's a friend of yours, simply meet him ingame and let him display the title. Screenshot optional. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 23:03, 31 May 2006 (CDT)


 * My ele has 2776 deaths, and has no mention of that title in her window. So, I am very skeptical. --Karlos 07:52, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * We should ask some of those people wo used repeated suiciding in order to let foes level up in order to climb to level 20 in pre-searing. Those guys should easily have racked up a few thousand deaths in the process. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:12, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Thinking about it again, there are some locations where you can aggro a group of foes, lure them towards a rez shrine and suicide. Then you respawn and they keep killing you, over and over again. As your DP increases and the foes level up killing you, they should kill you even faster. Only the respawn timer delays the process. Still, you should manage to die at least 2-3 times per minute. At that rate you can rack up 4000 deaths in 24 hrs. Just keep your PC running for a few days (while you're doing a weekend holyday trip, for example) and you should have the title. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:21, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, first we gotta know what we're shooting for. 5000 or 50,000? A screenshot would help. --Karlos 08:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * This title would make sense, considering how hard it is for an exisiting character with no quests left, etc, etc, to get the Survivor title. That is unless you are a solo farmer and you good enough that you know you will not die. But in my experience, there are always mistakes. --Gares Redstorm 08:51, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Chop Chop time?
Is it time to break this into sub-artiles linked by the master Title article? I think each title track should go in it's own article so that tips and guides can be placed there. Also so that referencing the specific title from other articles is cleaner. Thoughts? --Karlos 07:10, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmmmm ... I find the article not too long yet (especially since it could be shortened by a lot switching most sections to table format, avoiding redundant text). We have much longer article in this wiki that could have been split, but weren't. Also, I don't think that linking to individual titles will happen very often from articles other than user pages.
 * Having said that, I wouldn't mind chop-chop, as long as we also keep an overview in the Title article. :)
 * Karlos, I know you probably hate the idea, but what about working with inclusions to have all the titles both in individual articles and all in one combined article at the same time? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:34, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
 * P.S.: Regardless of the split I'll switch some of the sections to table format now. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:35, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I am always loathed to the inclusion scheme, but if it's just in one article (title) and all the others are just straight forward articles, It's not that big of a deal. It's not religion, it's a wiki. :) --Karlos 08:39, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * How can you say that? Heretic! Burn him, burn him!!! ;) --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:56, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Simplify names?
I find our current headings pretty cumbersome. Sorry, but "Winning Streak-based Titles" sounds horrible! May I propose to simplify them? I'd call each title (series) by the part of the title that doesn't change with level, which is usually the title for the first level. In some cases this scheme doesn't work, but in such cases I'd still use the name of the first level as the name for the whole series. As an alternative we might use the name of the highest level as the name for the title, but in some cases we don't even know the highest level yet, so the first level would be a much better choice.

The new titles would be:
 * Champion
 * Gladiator
 * Hero
 * Friend (of Alliance)
 * Skill Hunter
 * Explorer (of Continent)
 * Protector (of Continent)
 * Drunkard
 * Treasure Hunter
 * Seeker of Wisdom
 * Survivor
 * Kind Of A Big Deal

These would also be the names of individual articles if we decide to split the article (see section above). -- 08:56, 2 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree, I think the "XYZ based track" is just a way to group them. Which is something you should make sure we do not lose (if it's valuable). For example, account based vs character based is relevant. The "Kind of a big Deal" title probably needs a better name. --Karlos 19:27, 2 June 2006 (CDT)