User:Mendel/Talk Archive 10



I reserve the right to edit section titles to coincide with the section content. Size: bytes. =Comments=

Archive sizes
-- ◄mendel► 19:44, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)
 * 1) (should be around 80,000)

Archive sighses
&mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:43, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * User_talk:Entropy/Archive 24: -- ◄mendel► 21:05, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I should archive now, get ahead of the game. Pity that User:Warwick/Archive size is broken, too. -- ◄mendel► 21:15, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Randomness
Hi.

1) I apologize for this. 2) I've noticed what you said, but have yet to formulate a suitable response, which I also apologize for if it bothers you.

A F K When Needed 15:38, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 *     -- ◄mendel► 19:56, June 26, 2010 (UTC) & 04:22, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Custom navbar/font-size in other skins, mediawiki
So, I like having a small-font navbar and I like being able to customize my sidebar. However, it seems that setting my prefs to the Monaco skin isn't ideal. Plus, there are other wikis that don't seem to offer a sidebar option.

Is there some way of modifying a  so that it will absorb a   or  ? Poke has produced this script, to offer admin tools for use on GWW. (Works in conjunction with a personal js.) However, it's well beyond my meager understanding of wikicode. I was hoping that there might be a simpler method that would allow me to add simple links; I don't expect to be able to add tools. ( Please note the licensing, in which Poke requests that the code not be ported. )

Any suggestions for where to go for this type of thing? Or was that a rabbit I saw up your sleeve? Thanks! &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:45, July 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, to prevent any misunderstandings, what you seem to want is to use monobook (not monacobook), and you want to add some links to the sidebar. It is no problem to add tools. So, woudl you like to add to the contents of a box on the sidebar, or would you want to create a new navigation box? What links/tools do you want to have added, and where do you want them?
 * If you want to make a mockup, use firefox to save the complete website, then add the links in the html, and make a screenshot; also, show a "diff" of what you did. -- ◄mendel► 19:05, July 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * The short version (pending a mock-up) is that I want to customize the navbar(s). If there's a cascading menu box called, "navigation", I'm content to modify it. If not, I'd like to add one.


 * Less importantly, I'd like to be able to control the font size of the navbar and "tabs" (the mediawiki topmenu). Ideally, I'd also like to add links and control the order.


 * Generally, I find that I dislike most mediawiki skins (fonts/colors distract from articles, have too many rarely-used links, not enough of my frequent-flyer links). Even the Wikipedia skins always have that huge language list (which most people don't need most of the time).


 * As I write this, I realize this is a much more complicated request than I originally thought. (Since, in effect, I'm asking for help in overlaying skin features on an existing skin...while pretending that I'm not creating a new skin.) Obviously, Poke has done that for a specific skin, on a specific wiki, using a highly flexible script to adjust links/content. I guess I was hoping that there was a simple, generic, solution that would work on multiple sites. That's probably unrealistic. Lemme think some more about this, see if I can either simplify the idea or provide a mock-up that clarifies how my proposal benefits the user. Thanks. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:06, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The cascading flyouts are a Monaco feature; you can customize that for yourself if you're using our "custom" skin, which I'm calling Monacobook. I can dig through the Wikia help to find the file you need to create to do this, but IIRC there are provisions.
 * The new Wikipedia skin does hide the language list somewhat; but the old monobook doesn't have "dynamic" navigation: you see some links in some boxes on the sidebar, and it's simple to change them or add new boxes, but to make flyouts means expanding the skin somewhat. That's what we have here. (If you do a mockup, zip everything up and email it.) -- ◄mendel► 21:19, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool. That's helpful. (I'm mostly continuing to reply so that the talk on your talk page catches up with the archive bar on your talk page.) &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:07, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * How wide your screen must be if it hasn't already! -- ◄mendel► 03:23, July 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) It was caught-up for me with your fist post here. How wide is your screen?
 * Anyway, my monobook.js does some basic modification of the sidebar (see the addBar function - modifies the RC link and adds new box with custom links). I'm sure it's nowhere near the level of customization you're looking for, but it might give you something to start with.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's similar to what I had in mind. -- ◄mendel► 03:32, July 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh? Awesome! Thanks, I'll check out your code later. (I'm guessing from what I've seen that I'll be able to follow your coding more easily than Poke's, too.)
 * @Mendel: I use full screen for everything and I'm running @1600x1200. I like lots of screen real estate to see as much as possible (why I prefer small fonts, cascades in navbars). Regardless, that's a l o   n   g  list of archived topics :-)  &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 03:36, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

possible ShowHide bug
If archives 1 through 8 aren't collapsed for you, something's not working right. -- ◄mendel► 04:07, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * They are not collapsed. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:27, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The archives are expanded for me while the page loads, then the Javascript for the ShowHide kicks in, and they close (see thumbnail for the result). Maybe it's time to debug that ShowHide code. What's your setup? -- ◄mendel► 08:45, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Firefox, running NoScript, selectivecookiedelete, and Better Privacy (among others). NoScript is blocking google-analytics.com, quantserve, google-services, and fbcdn.net. I have "let admins override" in prefs. Show/Hides work elsewhere in wiki. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 14:02, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ugh, I'm always blissfully unaware of how ugly Monaco can be until moments like these when I hit the "monaco view" link in the sidebar to check something, and gah is this ugly (&rarr; screenshot)! I think this is the result of everyone who could care or know better using monobook anyway, and of course being hosted by Wikia, where every reskin deterioraties over time, unless maintained to keep up with the (sometimes unannounced and untracked) changes.
 * So, anyway, I should investigate into the other showhides and see if I'm doing it differently, or ask you to do a "hard reload" (like you did for mendelbook) of this page; I've had the javascript randomly not load today for me on UnAnswers, which means no toolbar, and a hard reload always fixed that.
 * The good new is that if you're running "admin's choice" (as if! most admins are running monobook, butwe're not allowed to set that as default), you should take a look at Help:Sidebar to solve your original problem. -- ◄mendel► 14:35, July 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I should mention an oddity: I don't have a preferred skin listed at the moment. At one time, I think I chose one of the monobooks and also had "admin override" checked. Now, however, the override is checked, but none of the radio-buttons are active for my default skin. (I suppose this would only matter on wikias without an admin pref; I don't know that I visit any such). (Note: as a non-admin, aren't I entitled to run something else? ;-)


 * re: Help:Sidebar. I'm pretty well set in GWiki world. What I was hoping was to be able to setup something that I could take with me to other wikis, including wikipedia, etc. (I haven't looked at Doc Ish's script; that does have the sound of something that would do the trick.) I do like being able to put My Watchlist into the sidebar, since wikia has decided that we don't need a shortcut to get there anymore. (Which reminds me: has anyone offered a single reason for which Following is better than Watching for the purpose of following pages of interest?) &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:06, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * We used to offer some skins that Wikia discontinued support for some time ago; it looks as if you had one of those selected. If my userpage looks anything like the screenshot I linked above, you're getting "Monacobook". From Wikia's general direction of development, I guess they felt having "followed pages" for others to view was more social. It's a feature geared, like many others Wikia's been introducing, at the "casual" user, who'd find the watchlist too technical. -- ◄mendel► 15:32, July 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * My page looks similar, but not identical to screenshot. Differences: I have icons for create new/upload new, I have no show/hide links (nor any whitespace where they should be), I didn't accidentally use the screen capture license for a wikia page image. (Everything else seems oke.)
 * I have no problem with gearing features towards casual and social users. What I don't get is how this is better? Admittedly, the watchlist is ugly and requires some knowledge to use anything beyond the obvious. However, the only advantage that Following offers is that you don't have to know a space name to find it on the list. That could be fixed on watchlist. In exchange for that minor benefit, wikia has removed everything important about using a watchlist: what has recently changed, easy-access to comparisons, previous history, and filtering. They have also removed the most obvious social feature: who made the most recent change (and how often has it been changed since you last looked). Plus, following is ugly, too. Looks like a whiteboard after a recent brainstorming meeting run by an ineffective manager. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:18, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Auto search PvX?
So, I have a Shortcut that searches Google for builds that include a particular skill, e.g. |+%22this+to+be+an+excellent+build%22)+-%22This+build+has+been+archived+as%22&btnG=Search&as_qdr=all&lr=&as_filetype= using Cry of Pain.

Is there a way (.js, I presume) to create a shortcut that would:
 * determine if the reader is on a skill page of GWiki or GWW
 * If yes, run the search above substituting the relevant skill's name (opening a new window or tab, per browser prefs)
 * If no, Bork Bork Bork.

I would like to have something like this for my sidebar. Thanks! (PS to the Peanut Gallery: Pretend as if you agree it is useful to search PvX for builds. I don't often use the builds, but I do find interesting synergies, talk about useless combos, or note that there are few builds using the skill. I find I learn something helpful about 75% of the time.) &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:50, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried something like it, but it only works on the monobook sidebar, as the monaco sidebar is cached. See User:M.mendel/Monaco-sidebar and Template:PvxBuild. If my sidebar idea was outfitted with a marker (XXXXX would probably suffice, or FULLPAGENAMEE), then Javascript could simply substitute the proper pagename when the page loads if your link was already in the sidebar. This hack would also enable other neat stuff, but I'm not really interested in taking it that far.
 * It might be worth a try to formulate a search that works on PvXwiki directly (instead of using google); and it might also be worth a try to get this link added to our skill infobox, maybe indicated by a small PvXwiki logo in some corner. -- ◄mendel► 18:45, July 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cool. That gives me some stuff to start with. Thanks


 * Re: etc:
 * I've tried using PvX search, and it doesn't filter well, so I find it useless. However, maybe it's worth working with Karate Jesus to improve that. (I keep thinking to drop him a line.) Meantime, the Google search does the trick (although I should probably find some way to filter in/out specialized team builds).
 * I like the idea of enabling whatever (we come up with) from GWiki; we could add a note to each skill page,, which would say something like, "Find builds using rated by PvX as Good/Excellent."
 * I'll check out your links and see how far I can take it.
 * Thanks again. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:02, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Battle for Lion's Arch info
If you going to edit the page please don't just cut out info. The page came from the offical wiki and it's the most detailed lay out for the mission. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh5813 (contribs).


 * Answered on Josh's talkpage. -- ◄mendel► 00:28, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

GW:SIGN
Please ensure your sig links to either your userpage or your talk page. Thanks --  Random Time  20:51, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Argh. Ty. Clobbered my signature a few days ago without noticing, and failed fixing it. -- ◄mendel► 20:54, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * FYI some of us had our sigs clobbered by wikia; I lost about half the code in the box (possibly it reverted to a previous saved version that didn't have all the code). &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 21:03, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ishy
As usual I'm saying something when it's not my place to do so. Oh well.

Code which works makes the Wiki work. While nice to have, the Wiki does not need the absolute best, so long as the code gets the job done.

I'm certainly not the only one around here who likes having Ishy around (who doesn't?) and if he's working on something with his very extensive knowledge of ~everything and not breaking shit, please oh please oh please leave him to it. Sometimes different code which does the same thing a different way isn't worth conflict and if Ishy leaves because you simply must continue to disagree with his methods the Wiki will have lost a true treasure. Because of you. A F K When Needed 12:44, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * the Wiki does not need the absolute best -- and it won't have it, there is no such absolute.
 * likes having Ishy around -- everyone does, I think
 * leave him to it -- that's not how wikis are supposed to work; they're about building on each other's work
 * isn't worth conflict -- I agree, but I didn't predict this conflict, nor did I aim to cause it
 * must continue to disagree -- so, once Dr Ishmael does something, I must either praise it or shut up? Or is that not what you're asking me to do?
 * Your Wiki once lost a true treasure because you wouldn't apologize for anything. Was that worth it? And you got a lot more chances to do so than I got with Dr Ishmael, though I'm hoping he'll reconsider when he calms down.
 * I do appreciate your theory that wiki consensus is best achieved by everyone else shutting the heck up, but somehow it doesn't work for me. GW:YAV. -- ◄mendel► 13:01, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * The theory is that discussions you have with him are detrimental to the wiki and community. It's not about "shutting the heck up" it's about you allowing him to work in peace, without always having another way of doing things. If both ways work, it really doesn't matter all that much which is used. I find it hard to believe that you didn't forsee at least a chance that you pointing out any imperfections you could see, or think you could, with his work would not have a negative impact.
 * He doesn't go through your contributions for things you could've handled differently, I really fail to see why you feel the need to do so to him. Are you really that convinced he's incompetant at dealing with things on a wiki, or can you simply not help yourself? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:34, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing what you say or imply about me in your statement is true. Please stop trolling me, intentional or not. -- ◄mendel► 19:47, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm quite sure that "discussions you have with him are detrimental to the wiki and community" is true and accurate, so dismissing it as trolling is a bit much. You may also have noticed I'm not the only one who feels that your criticisms of him and his actions can have a negative impact. There is a very real issue at hand and if you choose to ignore the concerns of myself and others as "afk trolling" then you risk doing a great deal of damage, intentional or not. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:20, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Point me to one or two detriments "to the wiki and community", please. -- ◄mendel► 23:02, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 or [ 2] &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 23:41, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 does not appear to be a detriment to the wiki to me. If you think it is, you should RfA me.
 * Re: 2, you haven't actually left, so the detriment threatened, but hasn't happened (thankfully).
 * If we don't address our differences, one of us will go, that much seems clear to me. I did go for some weeks. Interaction is the only way we can address them, so we're going to need to break a few eggs to make this omelette, probably. Of course the conflict itself is detrimental, but it's not the discussions that are. -- ◄mendel► 00:08, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Happy B-Day Gregor
Gratz with Gregor Johann Mendel's B-day :P --   † F1 ©  Talk  18:20, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who's that? You should buy him a beer. RoseOfKali 20:04, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gregor found out that peas can have sex, or something like that. -- ◄mendel► 20:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hap pea birthday.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 21:05, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Have a good one --  Random Time  21:50, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

you arrogant twat
Mendel, look me straight in the eye. I mean this from the bottom of my heart... GO FUCK YOURSELF (4:30 – 6:10, I wish there was a clip of just that bit). This is not "your" wiki. And there was no fucking reason to go and re-code the progress bar template and immediately implement your version. Unless you were deliberately trying to tick me off. Which you succeeded at quite well.

So I repeat: go fuck yourself. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 12:52, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know it's not my wiki. That's why I used these "quotation marks".
 * Yes, there was a fucking reason to go and recode Template:progress bar, thanks for asking. I wanted it to show a 100% full bar when min=current=max, because it saved me some special case code with the allegiance rank template. Other than that, it works just as before, so whyever would I not recode it? If you think it's a bad edit, just revert it and we'll talk about it. -- ◄mendel► 15:20, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

i'm an arrogant twat, too
I'm sorry for being an ass last week. Can we put all that behind us and actually work on something? Like SMW? &mdash;Dr Ishmael 03:02, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I really would appreciate your input on SMW. If you're too busy IRL, please say something, so I don't think you're blowing me off again.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was away for a few days, sorry.
 * I'd help you if I had the time, which right now I don't (and there are some other on-wiki projects that I want to finish first).
 * Side note: I don't hold with the "I insulted myself, now we're even" school; that does nothing for me because it explains very little. FWIW, I accept your apology. -- ◄mendel► 19:41, August 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * "I insulted myself, now we're even"? What?  That... that's.... that is so... GAH, that one phrase has made me so mad I can't even think of a word for it.  I was NOT insulting myself, I was ADMITTING something about myself that I thought would go along well with my apology.  Thanks for ruining it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 19:56, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. -- ◄mendel► 20:39, August 8, 2010 (UTC) (Should've read "I did it to you, now I'm doing it to me, so we're even", but I take your word for it you didn't mean it the way it appeared to me.) -- ◄mendel► 20:45, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Christ on a cracker, will you two just stop already? Jink  20:54, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Christ on a cracker? rofl. Good point though. [[Image:EM Signature.jpg]] ***EAGLEMUT***   T  A  L K 21:05, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jink, I doubt it's going to work that way. It's either me giving Dr Ishmael nothing but positive feedback about what he's doing (the "friendly USAnian" kind of way) and not adressing him otherwise (which probably precludes working him on any sort of project), or typing up the notes I made to myself two weeks ago which, since it's not the former, is going to create more anger but hopefully end up with a working relationship when all is said and done. -- ◄mendel► 08:07, August 9, 2010 (UTC) & 08:09, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * In my book, that WOULD be stopping it. Jink  12:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I consider one option "throwing the towel" and the other "pushing through". Which is the one you consider us two stopping? Both, or just the first? Neither will avoid drama. -- ◄mendel► 13:41, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Both. Or you film a video of yourself playing air guitar to "Dueling Banjos" as you ride on a camel through Berlin. Jink  13:54, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * What "other on-wiki projects" are you referring to? And could you please give me some feedback on what I've done so far?  I haven't received any feedback from anyone yet, which is really frustrating, because I'm really excited about this now, but I'm afraid of pushing ahead too quickly before incorporating feedback to refine the solution (do it right now rather than fix it later).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 19:56, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I want to make a page to focus the extension discussion; I want to finish the title templates project with some developments I've already charted in my mind; there are some different approaches to table sums I'd like to try out; to get into SMW would certainly take me several hours and result in some Zaishen Quest stuff, and I just don't have the time to get that informed right now so that I can give you meaningful feedback. And it seems writing up my recent pencilled notes on our propensity to erupt into conflict has also become a priority. -- ◄mendel► 21:12, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * What is there to discuss about the extension? I think it's useful, you think it's worthless.  I don't see any way we can reach common ground on that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 21:18, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

SMW
header inserted, indents reset -- ◄mendel► 23:03, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

From what I can see about SMW, it looks like it does the same thing as (currently) dpl does in pulling out parameters from used templates. Or at least that's how it's currently used in the, and how I would see it used in the future (parameters get assigned to the properties). --JonTheMon 21:45, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

(edit) Oh, and what things do you want looked at specifically, Ish? --JonTheMon 21:48, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * SMW and DPL are indeed similar, but they differ somewhat on how the queries can be built, with SMW generally being more flexible. The tradeoff is that SMW takes more work to setup, since you have to convert your templates to be SMW-aware, whereas DPL can just use the templates as they already exist.  (SMW properties don't have to be set within templates, that's just the easiest way of making sure they are implemented consistently across a group of articles.)  Also, SMW has a very useful feature where you can define exactly which values or types of values can be given to a property (and by extension, the template parameter that sets that property), and any validation errors will be shown immediately (cf. Property:Campaign).
 * What I'd like feedback on:
 * The look of the thing: both Template:TravelerInfo and Template:TrophyInfo/Template:ItemInfo could probably use some fine-tuning visually, but I'm not good with that stuff.
 * Specifically on ItemInfo, I'd like opinions on the ordering of the various fields. I used the same order that GWW does, and some of it just feels wrong, but again I'm not sure how to fix it.
 * The vocabulary: the names of SMW properties are supposed to have a "natural language" feel. I realize that "natural" is subjective, so gathering multiple opinions on this would be very helpful.  Special:Properties lists the properties already in use; the documentation for ItemInfo lists all the properties I'm proposing in relation to items.
 * And I guess just an overall opinion on whether this is actually a useful idea or not. Now that I've finally taken the time to learn about SMW, I think it's wonderful - I really wish I'd done so back when PanSola first suggested it two years ago - but the hard part now is going to be retrofitting it into our 18k articles.  I'm willing to do the busy work if other people are willing to help plan it out.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 22:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some SMW info is turned off with .css, adding

.smwfact { display:block; }
 * to your .css is probably a good idea. This should make a factbox show up on articles that use SMW-ified templates.
 * If I wanted to become an SMW expert, I'd look at how other wikis did it (e.g. vsk.wikia.com ). It might also be a good idea to write down what we aim to achieve with this. Both is not fun, though. -- ◄mendel► 23:03, August 9, 2010 (UTC)