User talk:Tetris L/Archive2006-2

This is the Archive for old stuff from User talk:Tetris L

Website
You have a very nice site, I hope you don't mind too much that I used a fair amount of info off of it to update the skill trainers page ;) LordKestrel 18:48, 7 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Sure, no problem. As mentioned in the credits, it is "public domain". But be aware that it there is currently an error in the list: Ranger skills Precision Shot, Tiger's Fury and Winnowing are listed with Tengen in Port Sledge, but they are actually in Droknar's Forge with Bartoch. --Tetris L 01:52, 9 Jul 2005 (EST)

Capturing Skills
Hey Tetris, I've gone through some of the boss articles you wrote, I think you must have copied some trange format, so I've altered them to match the standards :) Good work though! 01:33, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Bear with me. Today is my first Wiki day ever. Until today I had never contributed to any Wiki and I'm not really familiar with how it works and how to format articales. I've read through the basics, but I will probably need a few more days until everything fits into place. --Tetris L


 * Dont worry about it :) everyone starts like that! On another note... I noticed you added some acquisition info. Is this accurate? In an earlier patch signet of capture before a certain point was disabled (crystal desert I think). I don't know if they've removed that since they altered the way signet of capture works (i.e. killing a boss instead of capturing the last used skill), can anyone confirm this? 02:09, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Yes, you CAN use the Signet of Capture on the bosses that I listed. You get your first SoC from Magi Malaquire in Lion's Arch and you can also buy it from various skill trainers in Kryta. This is kinda pointless because you don't meet any elite bosses until you reach the Crystal Desert. That's why I looked for some non-elite skills that are actually worth capturing, because you can only get them from skill trainers or quests much later in the game (Crystal Desert or Southern Shiverpeaks). --Tetris L 02:16, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * So... you can't capture elite skills until later? Or have I misunderstood. Originally you could capture any skill from any boss monster at any point in the game, once you had signet of capture. Is that still how it works? 05:18, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * After re-reading I guess you mean that you don't meet any bosses with elite skills until you get to the crystal desert. The reason I bring this up is that there was a bit of debate as to whether it was possible to capture elite skills in Kryta (at the same time as you get the signet). Initially it seems you could. Lol... yeah... 05:20, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)
 * Right. Only bosses in the desert missions, southern Shiverpeaks, and fire islands have elite skills.  You can capture from any boss anywhere but you'll only find they have elites in the areas mentioned.  Tetris' point was you could get non-elite skills earlier by capturing rather than waiting to get to the quest or skill trainer.  --Fyren 05:29, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Yeah, I see that's what he was saying (now, hehe), but it did used to be the case (for a while) that pre-desert bosses used elite skills, you just couldn't capture them. And before that you could capture them as soon as you got signet of capture. 20:56, 9 Jul 2005 (EST)

Creatures
Dunno what's up with Creatures but I corrected some information and explained it on the talk page. 17:08, 12 Jul 2005 (EST)

Hey Tetris :) I think Spider should contain some of the information you've put on Category:Spider. Really category pages are just to group sub-categories and articles together. The information on them should really be in an article. For example, see :)  04:43, 14 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Hmmmm ... dunno. I find it quite nifty to put some information directly on the category page instead of linking to it from the article with the same name. In my opinion it is somewhat redundant to have both. But if putting information on a category page violates some global Wiki standard I'll succumb to it. ;) --Tetris L 05:26, 14 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Some information is fine on the category pages, but it's best not to have them grow into articles. Even if you start with just a small amount of information this can lead to a very large category page that dwarfs the articles it is meant to be grouping, look at the history of Category:Locations for an example of how this can get out of control :) 06:36, 14 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I actually now see what you meant about moving Creatures to Category:Bestiary. In this case as well I think the information in Creatures would be best suited in the Bestiary article rather than the category :) I think it will be very helpful when discussing species classifications :) 06:39, 14 Jul 2005 (EST)

Regent Valley/River Basin
Please check this area again in Post-Searing. It may have been labeled as Regen River Valley in the beta (I don't know) and is labeled incorrectly on some of the maps on the web (like Griffon's is labeled Griffin's on some) but now it is Regent Valley in both Pre- and Post-Searing. (I won't argue about Ascalon City (Pre-Searing) the only reason I put that one in there was because of the icon that they use for it on the map, the outpost icon as opposed to the city icon) --Rainith 10:15, 21 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I verified that it's just "Regent Valley" in post-Searing (at least, now). There is no river there anymore, after all.  --Fyren 10:26, 21 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * You are correct, it is "Regent Valley". Obviously I got an outdated version of MOOMANiBE's map. Sorry for the confusion. --Tetris L 19:34, 21 Aug 2005 (EST)

Great work on the guild hall article! kaarechr 21:23, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)

Mission Overview page edit
Really nice edit on the Mission Overviews page!--Isotope23 03:22, 30 Aug 2005 (EST)

Unique Item Info
Hey Tetris, are you finding these items yourself or are you quoting other sites. Given that you thought unique item bosses where in Sorrow's Furnace when none of the ones we had listed were in Sorrow's Furnace makes me feel you didn't uncover all these items in one day, though I could be wrong. If you have not uncovered these items yourself and are quoting other fan sites then: a) It is best we do NOT replicate the info here and just link to their sites. It is the honorable thing to do. b) We really ought to only put information that we can verify ourselves. Not just repeat what others say. On the flip side, if you found all these items. Maybe I should go farming with you. :) --Karlos 23:50, 9 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * The list is a collection of info posted on 3 forum threads:
 * Guild Hall
 * GuildWarsGuru
 * GWonline.net
 * All of the unique items are verified with screenshots. So I don't think we have reason to believe that they are "made up". And the info is posted on forums, not on websites. Anything posted on forums by users is "public domain" in my book, and the website that hosts the forum does not hold any copyright at all on the forum content. --Tetris L 23:59, 9 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I've added a credits note to the list, although I think it wasn't really necessary in this case. --Tetris L 04:14, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I feel much better with the screen shots now. Good work! Giving them credit is the honorable thing to do. It's like when an author of a book uses a concept or idea from another book. Some authors will cite the book, others will not. The more honorable thing (and more scientific thing to do) is to mention our sources. Thanks Tetris. --Karlos 13:39, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Usually I make sure credit is given where it's due. As the original author of several Unreal Tournament FAQ's I've found my complete FAQ copied to other websites, with all reference to my name removed. Needless to say I was a little pissed off. But quoting forums is really something different. If you quote a complete longish post of someone, mention his name (not necessarily the website name hosting the forum though). But in this case all I did was to extract the text from screenshots. -- Tetris L 15:17, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)

AoE ranges mini-map
A definite smoove!! Thank you. --Karlos 18:53, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Thanks, but I'm still uncertain how precise ranges in GW really are. Somebody claimed that user tests in the gwonline-net forums revealed that ranges vary widely depending on what skill you use, even if the skill description has the same range wording. --Tetris L 18:58, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Yes, that was me and Fyren. :) None the less, the image explains the "intended" ranges better than the 1000 words next to them. the problem with the data we have is that it does not define the ranges in a different defintion; instead, it says the current definition is not completely accurate. While this is proven, it cannot really be quantified, other than to research PER skill what is the actual in-game range and then PER skill, depict it on the radar. --Karlos 20:29, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)

Rule of Which Thumb?
Ok, I think the rule of thumb is not working. I am not talking about the phrase itself, I think this rule is not correct. For example, Mantra of Lightning is available as a quest reward from Graven Images, yet, in Thengen's skill you assert that it's not available as a skill reward. I haven't had much luck finding others but the rule seems broken. --Karlos 23:29, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I already commented on this in Talk:Trainer locations. See you there. --Tetris L 23:34, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)

You're living in the past!
Didn't you get the memo? --Fyren 21:44, 30 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Doh! Stupid me looked for the Priest of Balthazar in Ascalon City this morning and was wondering why I couldn't find him. That explains it. --Tetris L 21:48, 30 Sep 2005 (EST)

NPC Pages
You are redefining the NPC page structure on the fly as you go tonight. When did the "General/Location" format get introduced? By whom?

For an NPC that is a dwarf in Droknar's, do you really need to split that into two sections, XYZ is a dwarf, location: Droknar's forge. I personally believe for most NPCs this is overkill. 90% of the NPCs in the game are simpleton quest givers who are defined only term of their location and the quests they give. It is better to present this information in a paragraph of good English than in three large sections each comprised of a small sentence.

Still, this is only my opinion, what I care more about is that you do not start a new structure for NPC pages without making sure this is where we want to go. We don't want half the pages to be General/Location and another half free-form and yet a third half Description/Related Articles.. Let's think this through. --Karlos 19:01, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * The fact that I usually put a "General" heading over the first paragraph or every article (not just NPCs) has both practical and "ideological" reasons. Often I find that the first lines of text are easily overlooked if they are not under a heading. That's especially if there is a stub tag at the top, then the first lines of text (unless bold) kinda blend in with the stub tag. And ... as someone who likes structure ... I generally don't like text that isn't under any heading. As for splitting small articles into sections, I'm surprised that you speak against that, as normally you are the one who favors splitting small articles not only into sections, but even into several smaller articles. For me, having a "Location" section is something that makes sense in almost every article, not only for NPCs. I'm trying to follow the same pattern for all articles. I would have thought that this is something that you would like too. --Tetris L 19:15, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Oh, you've got me beat on the cutting up the article into sections point, I know that I am on the losing side. It's not wrong, I just feel it's overkill. Why? Because once we start using it, we'll have to send Rainith to update ALL the NPC pages with that structure. :)
 * With regards to the "General" section, I am against that. The entire Wiki (and Wikpedia) start any article with a basic paragraph describing what the object is. The only exception is the Monster articles (which is kinda ok since sometimes the description is empty). It's good article writing style to have an intro paragraph that describes what the article is about. --Karlos 19:41, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)

Maps
Cracking good job on the Old Ascalon and Regent Valley maps Grommit, er, I mean Tetris L. :)  --Rainith 08:19, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Indeed. :) I also got permission from Gaia to use the Ring of Fire map on her site on this wiki. So, if you want, when you get to that region, you can just use that map instead of redoing all the work. Her site is on her user page. --Karlos 17:52, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Thanks for the flowers. I will create only 1 or 2 maps per day maximum, following the storyline, so it will take a loooooong time until I reach the Ring of Fire. If we want to do this faster, I'd need some help. --Tetris L 18:07, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Whistles and looks around casually...* :) I'm working on a map of my own.. But it's a secret! :) --Karlos 18:32, 11 Oct 2005 (EST)

Bosses and Skills
I notice at the bottom of the mission info/walkthrough pages there is a section sometimes called "Bosses and Skills" and sometimes "Elite Captures". Are you planning to standardise on one or the other? I prefer the format for "Elite Captures" as each class has it's own little icon, but some of the captures aren't elites so perhaps the title should just be "Skill Captures". If you like, I can make the changes next time I've got nothing better to do :) --Nightblade 23:05, 20 October 2005 (EST)


 * First of all, this is not up to me. Standardizing such a thing would be a community decision. As far as I remember I changed the name of that section only once (for Divinity Coast) because I wanted to list the bosses, even though they don't offer any elite skills. --Tetris L 15:20, 21 October 2005 (EST)

Missing images?
Sorry, but do you know if there's a way I can see which skills still need images? There has to be an easier way than to click through all of them :)

Thanks!
 * A note first: You can sign by putting ~ behind your post or by simply pressing the signature button above the edit window.
 * On the matter: If there is an easier way, I don't know it. I'd have to click through all of them too. Sorry. --Tetris L 01:22, 22 October 2005 (EST)


 * Oh sorry, I'm still kinda new to this... thanks though :)
 * --Melly 01:27, 22 October 2005 (EST)


 * Don't worry, you'll get the hang out of it quickly. Wiki is very easy to learn. Not even 3 months ago is was still a wiki virgin myself.
 * One more thing: In talk discussions, structure the discussion as a tree by using indents (colon). Makes it easier to read. --Tetris L 01:36, 22 October 2005 (EST)

Sir! Movement in the trees!
This and this are all I use anymore, I don't even bother bookmarking the main page. ;p

Stay!
'bout all I got to say on that subject! =D --Nunix 16:52, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Please show some respect
What is the problem exactly? A few days ago you go into this tirade about how I'm in one of my "I'm right and the whole world is wrong" tirades as if I'm your wife or something. Today you "resist the urge" twice to make fun of me. What is wrong with you? Do you think this is an appropriate way to carry out discussions and contribute in this wiki?

Think of me what you will and form your own theories and analysis of my person, I frankly could try and care less, but it would be impossible. But when it comes to dealing with me in this wiki, I expect you to treat me with the same professional respect you offer any co-worker at a work place. While you may make snide remarks about them behind their backs at the water-cooler, you certainly would not keep assaulting their person repeatedly in public and hope to get away with it.

I have differed with you on many issues. Yet never have I belittled you or "fought the urge" the make fun of you or made psychological analysis of what is wrong with you. I do not do this because I fear you or love you, I do not know you even. I do it because it is your right upon me as a human and because it is the only way this wiki can remain industrious and productive.

If you continue this campaign of ridicule then I will ask the admins to ban you, Tetris. And if my request is denied then I shall leave. I do not need this. I do this for fun and exploration, not to form cyber enemies I don't even know. I hope you will reconsider your present course of action. --Karlos 05:19, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I think I have already explained at length on many occasions what my problem with your action is, but here we go again ...


 * I found it hard to resist to make a remark because the Leaver discussion was a near perfect example of what has happened so often in the past: You edit somebody's contribution claiming that it's "subjective" or even "complete conjecture" and replace it with your own opinion instead, which is just as subjective and arguable. But you're so convinced of yourself that you take your opinion as definite and try to shut down people who don't agree. And the fact that you even admitted that you "place a lot of stock in [your] experience" was the cherry on top. (Even though it was a bit of an understatement.)


 * You have never "made psychological analysis of what is wrong with [me]" or "belittled" me?? For one of many examples, how about this one? I'm referring to the "You're convinced that this is all about you ..." part. Read through that whole talk again, and ask yourself: If roles were reversed, would you consider your remarks as "respectful"?


 * Sorry, as long as you delete other people's contributions (not just mine) as arbitrary as you've done and as long as you're not willing to accept that your own opinion is just as questionable as anyone else's, I will keep criticizing your action, openly and with sarcastic remarks too, if I find it reasonable.


 * I say what I say openly, not behind your back. It's not like I log off to make snide remarks under an anonymous IP or something. I don't even have to hide behind my nickname. I would say the very same things when we sit face to face. If you want to, we can get on voicecom to talk.


 * If you have to, go ahead and ask for me to be banned. I have always enjoyed contributing to this Wiki and I will continue to do so as long as I'm welcome. But if the majority of people here (admins or community) think that I'm a troublemaker and that I should leave, I will do so immediately. I won't bÃ­tch and whine for a second. I've been a regular on internet forums long enough to know that it's not worth any personal drama. This is just the internet after all, and this is just a Wiki about a game.


 * One last thing: I'm not your enemy. Several time you told me that I'm taking things too personal. Now it's you who is taking things far too personal. Making an enemy over something as unimportant as a computer game or a wiki would be ridiculous. --Tetris L 17:02, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Read the example you provided, read the "get off my back" statement you said and you'll see my response was very respectable. I was telling you that I am not on your back and should not be on your back because the discussion was never about you. You're the one who said it was about you, not I.
 * I did not say you are saying anything behind my back. Read the example I gave again.
 * I believe I have made my position very clear. As I said, you are absolutely entitled to your own theories about how and why I make eidts in the wiki. That being said, I ask that you stop making personal comments about my person in a public forum. You have now responded that you will not stop. The ball is now in your court. You can choose to respect my rights in this matter, or you can go ahead and continue to insult me with the likely outcome that the wiki will lose one of us (and most likely myself). Your move. --Karlos 18:26, 4 November 2005 (EST)
 * I did reconsider. I'm too tired of this crap, and wasted far too much valuable time with it already. The next time we have a serious clash - and I'm afraight it's just a matter of time - I'm off. When it's gonna happen is up to you as much as it's up to me, and you know it. This is my last reply in this thread. --Tetris L 21:07, 5 November 2005 (EST)

Minor Correction
I'm assuming (uh oh) that you made the image image:MissionSequence.jpg, or perhaps you just uploaded it ... either way, I think that should be "Hell's Precipice" instead of "Hell's Precicise". Nothing major, but I can't make the correction myself since it's an image ... and my photoshop ability is limited to cropping and drawing stick figures ^_^ Geblah187 11:30, 5 November 2005 (EST)


 * Fixed. --Karlos 11:44, 5 November 2005 (EST)


 * Thx for fixing it, Karlos. Having looked at that crappy image again, I decided to make a new version. I actually made the current version with Paintbrush, a.k.a. "the stick figure drawing tool", and when converting it to JPG it got illegible. Meanwhile I've gotten used to a little more advanced graphics programs, so I may be able to create something that looks halfway decent. --Tetris L 20:36, 5 November 2005 (EST)

Item Categories
Thumbs up for all the work. The recent changes are flooded ;-) --Xeeron 07:23, 8 November 2005 (EST)
 * Spamming recent changes is unavoidable when on a crusade. Ask Rainith. ;) But ... I'm almost done now. --Tetris L 07:28, 8 November 2005 (EST)

Collectable Item sub categories
I left you a question here, please let me know what you think. --Karlos 01:45, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Replied. --Tetris L 05:57, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Diessa Lowlands Map
Hey did you ever upload the map for Diessa Lowlands? You updated the entry, but I don't see the map anywhere. I can see how working on those would be tough, but if you can get that one up at least the entry will make a little more sense. :) --Rainith 01:44, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll have to check at home. I'm 99% sure that I completed the map. Maybe it is one of the images that got borked when we upgraded to WikiMedia 1.5? Or has it never been uploaded? I may have goofed. --Tetris L 02:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it was ever uploaded, the filename shows in red on the page, the images that got borked show no filenames (at least on my browser). --Rainith 02:18, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Taking a break?
You're a valuable contributer, and losing one of those does matter. It is a shame for the wiki that you want to leave. See you. Shandy 05:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Tetris L, you're one of the most productive editors we've had here at the GuildWiki, and I for one am sorry to see you go. I know you've had more than your share of arguments here, and I'm gonna add one more: a single contributor or admin staying or leaving does matter. In any case, I hope you're enjoying whatever you're doing these days, and I think it'd be great if you came back, should the feeling strike you. &mdash;Tanaric 16:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't been around long enough to totally grok the epic Tetris L/Karlos battle, nor do I care to poke my nose in it, but I think you've made the right decision to walk away for the time being. There is no reason to pour your life into something that isn't fun. Anyway, if and when you come back, I am sure you'll find the face of the wiki completely changed. Guild Wars will not be the same game it is today. Karlos won't be the same man he is today. I might no longer be around. If I don't see you here again, let me just say that I hope you found something to do that gives you joy instead of grief. Wherever we end up, I am sure the eternal message of Guild Wars ("don't aggro too many mobs and take some self heals") will guide us to the right path. So long! &mdash; Stabber 05:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Judging from the edit that Karlos made to his user page yesterday ("I am a former contributor and admin on this wiki ...") it looks like it's him who left now. I assume, because of the debate about the IE pop-up, and Gravewit's harsh reply. Whatever reason Karlos had for his move, and regardless if he left temporary or for good, in any case this allows me to end my own GuildWiki break. I'm back, officially. (Off course I've been lurking over the past few weeks. ;)) -- 04:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, welcome back! Officially. ;) &mdash;Tanaric 00:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm ... not sure how long it will last. :( Karlos is back now, discussing the IE pop-up incident. If the matter is resolved to his satisfaction and he decides to stay, I'll retreat. -- 07:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

To whom it may concern
Disclaimer: I really don't know where to put this. I want to explain something to the community rather than adress Karlos himself, so it seems misplaced on Karlos' talk page. But this matter concerns Karlos more than anyone else, and I want him to know, so I decided to post it here instead of "going cheerleading" on my own talk page or some other page.

Anybody who has been following the discussion for a while knows that me and Karlos have got issues. We've tried to get along, but it doesn't seem to work out. In the end it came down to a "either you or me" decision, and I made room. Then it was Karlos who "left" (for reasons that have nothing to do with me), so I came back. Now he is back again, and I gotta decide again if I go back into hibernation.

I made up my mind, and decided that I won't abandon this wiki easily. I care about it, I have put countless hours of work into it, and except for the fights with Karlos, I enjoy contributing here. I'm not willing to let one person spoil all that for me.

Karlos has threatened repeatedly to ask for me to be banned for offending him. Despite that threat, I am not going to treat him with kid gloves. In the past I tried to be as moderate as I could be while still saying what I felt had to be said. In future I'll try to avoid personal discussion with Karlos as much as possible, but if I absolutely must, I'll make my point clear, maybe even clearer than in the past. If Karlos feels that my criticism of his actions is personal offense and if he feels that I should be banned for it and appeals to the community or the admins, then so be it. Like I already said before: If the community (i.e. a majority of admins and contributors) thinks that I'm a troublemaker and that I deserve a ban, I will accept that and leave for good.

I'm still trying to think of a way that allows me and Karlos to come to a cease-fire agreement. Unfortunatly there is no "ignore" feature included with WikiMedia. ;) You can't be part of a wiki without participating in discussions. I could try to stay out of heated discussions with Karlos, but repeated reverts would probably force me back in. I don't know what's going to happen in case of another dispute in future. Hopefully somebody will step in as the voice of reason and concilate. -- 05:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This belongs on your talk page, not mine. You imposed that "it's either me or you" rule, you applied it, you broke it. I don't care one way or the other. But, since it is you telling the community that you are back, then it either belongs on your talk page, or the community portal or something.
 * As for your decision to come back, I never thought you should leave. Never could comprehend your "ultimatium." Now that you are back, I will ask the other admins to evaluate your behavior. --Karlos 05:46, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't mind to have this discussion here (or somewhere else) instead of your talk page, as long as you're aware of it. I put it on your talk page mostly to avoid the impression that I slander about you behind your back. If you prefer it here, fine for me.
 * I welcome your intention to "get [my] behaviour evaluated" (nice euphemism for "get banned" :)). It was gonna happen sooner or later anyway, so we might as well get this out of the way quickly. -- 06:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Users are only banned when they harm the wiki. You have not done so.  That said, I think that, at least recently, you've been acting a little childishly.  Not a big deal.  My advice is this: the less you bring up the "I don't like Karlos" thing, the less often the rest of us have to deal with you bickering.


 * If I noticed Karlos needlessly fanning the flames, I'll make the same point on his talk page. I've tried to stay out of these sorts of thing, but I'm willing to involve myself now, as I'd like you both to continue contributing. &mdash;Tanaric 17:05, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Makenx
Thanks for you message. I am revisiting my ealier entries and changing the format to a unified one. It takes a while to get use to the system. =)--Makenx 05:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem at all. We were all wiki newbies at one point. You'll get used to it quickly. :) -- 05:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)