Talk:Guild Wars Eye of the North

Early
come on.. Skuld  05:05, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * come on? with Factions edging out of the way.. people need some false hope in info boxes... they were starting to run out... --Jamie 05:06, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * We won't be doing anything with this article for quite a while, but anyway, no damage done by creating it. If ANet started working on it, so can we. ;) --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L block]] 05:20, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm pretty sure this is the campaign which will have the "kill everything, speed up team, pets turn into 'the darknesses' and then finish by the whole team doing the warrior dance" skill... the only problem is by Campaign 6 it will be nerfed by requiring 30 energy & 13 points into strength --Jamie 05:27, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Then you equip a nice off-hand which gives you 12 energy for 9 blood magic or something and use the skill again. End of story. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|User:Gem]] 05:34, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

This page implies that campaign 4 has been announced or reliable information has been given about it. I don't think anything has been said about it. The article states "Campaign Four (a.k.a. Chapter Four) is an upcoming stand-alone product"; how do we know one is comming? I think this article should be deleted or hidden until information regarding campaign 4 has actually been released. ~ --IAmAI 05:39, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * ANet did say that they are working on it, more of less explicitely, during E3 2006 and before (see for example the link provided in the "External Links" section). As ANet stick to their 6 months release cycle with two teams working on two future campaigns simultanously for roughly 1 year each the Factions team has gradually moved over to the 4th camapign at around the time Factions was released. At that time the other team had been working on campaign three for 1/2 year already. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 05:57, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Fair enough, although nothing has been announced about, except that it will exist. Is that right? --IAmAI 05:59, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Actually, we don't know if it will exist. We only know it's currently being worked on by the original Factions team (plus normal expectation of coming and going of team ppl).  It could get cancelled or whatever in the fututre. - 06:07, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

This article, in it's present state, can be replicated for Campaign Six, Campaign Fourteen and Campaign Thirty Nine. It's empty. Even the link says nothing. What gives? --Karlos 07:31, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, it was premature to create the article, and didn't make much sense. But now that's there it wouldn't make much sense to delete it either, then recreate it in a few months when ANet releases the first tidbits of info. Just let it sit there, idle, and leave it alone. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:23, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * To me, the difference in Chapter 4 and Chapter 13 is that this is confirmed to be in development. So we already know the page will be needed anyway, and why would it matter exactly when it was created in that case? Chapter 5 may not be out since it's not confirmed, but it also may, although that article would be too uncertain to create. -- 213.113.67.150 12:37, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

If we know it's in development, then that should be in the article, right? There's two sources, one being the (removed) link and the other being inference from ANet's "12 month development, 6 month release cycle" claim. --68.142.14.34 08:55, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmmm, the first few times I tried that link, it didn't display an article - only had the "spiffy" and "iffy" sections and a couple advertisements under it. Looks like it may have been a database glitch, as an article now comes up.  Still the extent of mention of Campaign 4 in it appears to be "They wanted to get the word out that development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway", which doesn't seem enough to justify the link to me as it provides zero information on it outside of 'we're working on it'.  If someone disagrees, they could add it back in. - Barek (talk • contribs) -
 * I disagree, it's oane of the reasons for creating this article the fact that they said they are working on it. And as a side note please sign your coments!--Phoenix [[Image:Phoenix_Benu.png]] 06:27, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I usually remember to sign them, adding it in now.
 * On the article, I still disagree that a half sentence mention justifies being added as a link; but I don't feel strongly enough about it to debate the point and won't protest further than this that it's back. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 08:17, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Think this way, ANet confirms that will be Campaign 3 for Guildwars but still under development and no official title confirm for it. Also ANet not confirm it will be the last Campaign for Guildwars which mean there are high possibility for Campaign 4 coming out later on. But this not count there will be Campaign 5, because Campaign 4 still a possibility which it cant be count to make Campaign 5 will be there. --Gusnana1412 07:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wild random speculations ... well, even more of it
I think most speculation is that it will be in some kind of artic or snowy setting. What I would like to see is for us to return to Orr. I would like to see an european urban setting similar to what Cantha was for asia. A venetian-atlantean theme maybe? Give me some outright Buccaneers! Time to bank on Pirates 3?--- Blackthorne Varigus (talk • contribs) - 13:00, 15 January 2007

With ArenaNet showing a tendancy towards themeing based off of Earth cultures, I can't help but wonder who will be next? Mayan? Mongolian? Southern-Pacific Islander? Eskimo? I know, it's pointless speculation / rambling (which, lets face it, is nothing new for the talk pages). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I hear this one is going to be based more around German/French cultures. Necromancers can delight in the new skills, Beer Drinker and Consume Cheese. --Black Ark 02:29, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Okay, drawing some comparisons.
 * Ascalon - mediaeval and rennaissance western Europe
 * Kryta - Polynesians (tattoos), Inca and Mesoamericans (architecture)
 * Orr - Middle East based on Khilbron's title and accent
 * Deldrimoor - Vikings
 * Cantha - China, Japan and Korea
 * Kurzicks - Germany, Eastern Europe
 * Luxons - Greece, Bedouins (they're both nomadic herders and the Jade Sea is pretty much a really exotic, magically created rocky desert)
 * Elona - Africa, Middle East
 * There's also some pretty clear Greco-Roman influences in Paragon armour. I think the most likely candidates for Campaign 4 are India, the Americas and Australia, assuming that none of them are covered in Nightfall, although covering the entire arctic circle is also an interesting possibility. I strongly suspect that the three major civilisations in Nightfall correspond to Africa, the Middle East and the Roman Empire. The Egypt analog could be part of any of the three major civilisations, or it could be a cosmopolitan trade center where they all overlap. -- Gordon Ecker 03:44, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, being an East Asian myself, the whole GWF Campaign is purely East Asian, mainly concentrating on China, Japan and Korea, but is partly touching the rest of East Asia as well. The Kurzick theme is also East Asian, it was based on the Japanese.  The 'gothic' theme came from Japan.  Luxon is Korean.  Historically also, Korea and Japan are age-long enemies (heck even now they have hatred to each other), hence they after the Kurzick and Luxon theme from them.  The rest of Cantha is typical of the rest of East Asia like the compact wooden houses which is typical of Vietnam, Malaya (old Malaysia), Indonesia (in the past), and the Philippines (some parts of the country).


 * For the sake of discussion, maybe Campaign 4 will be ancient South America, probably be Aztec theme. Just a thought ;) --- Laibcoms (Contribs) - July 31, 2006 Monday, 8:00PM Philippine Time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laibcoms (talk &bull; contribs) 06:09, 31 July 2006 (CDT).


 * Laibcoms: I don't know about the look, but at least the Kurzick names are clearly European (Germanic/Slavic). Similar for the Luxon, they are clearly Greek inspired. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:27, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ah, I see where you're coming from. I agree, they are more European than Asian.  Now that you mentioned it, I wonder why they chose it to be like that.  Maybe because the "Gothic Japan" is a modern 'image' of their culture instead of 'medieval'.  --- Laibcoms (Contribs) - July 31, 2006 Monday, 9:00PM Philippine Time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laibcoms (talk &bull; contribs) 08:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT).


 * I think ANet did it to make clear that Kurzicks and Luxons are peoples of their own, with a culture separate from the Cathans. Hence the distinctively different theme. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:24, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Laibcoms: I think you have some misunderstandings. The goth subculture started in Europe, not Japan. I totally fail to see any similarities between Kurzicks and Japanese as well as Luxons and Koreans. And I'm from southeast asia, not far from you. Any social or political conflicts these days is much more Japan vs China than Japan vs. Korea. For Koreans, it's a case of north and south. As for the cramped environments in kaineng, I highly doubt it's supposed to be based on the rest of east asia. It's more like they know wooden houses (rather than stone) to be common in the east and they just used it to show the cramped living conditions in kaineng. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 00:12, 23 January 2007 (CST)


 * I must say, I'm pretty pleased with what I've seen from the Nightfall campaign so far, it looks much more promising than Factions did - at this moment. Profession-wise, I was afraid that we'd see a "Pirate"-class to balance out the Assassin's "ninja". Not that I don't like pirates, it's just that the whole "Pirate vs Ninja"-thing is incredibly old meme. I honestly don't know what to expect from campaign four, profession-wise - I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of a gunslinger-class (say, less damage than bows, faster shots, straight range as opposed to the arc from bows, you can take it from there) and maybe some kind of Shaman-class (I'm really trying to stray from the native-analog, and I'm failing) although the Ritualist-class already tries to cover that ground, however feeble. I know this isn't plausible, but I'd enjoy seeing scenery reminiscent of that of pre-searing Ascalon in campaign four. Maybe some remotely rennaisance-Italian settings? I'm just brainfarting here. So I did that before in this talk-page, who cares. I don't know, maybe aliens will show up in the world of Guild Wars and beam us all up to the moon to fight their Brood Queen. Dibs on the Flamethrower-class. --Black Ark 06:24, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I have to agree with you, it does seem promising indeed. I'm very curious to where Paragons originate from. Not what population they're based on that is, but more what kind of civilization they come from. Granted all other professions aren't associated with a land as such, but I think that will be hard to avoid in Nightfall considering the very distinct professions.


 * If I were to guess wildly about chapter four, I'd guess it will be based on New Zealand/Australia. Partly for the interresting landscapes, but mainly cause, well we haven't seen anything that resembles that yet (possibly New Zealand as Kryta, but it doesn't seem too similar to me). &mdash; Galil  09:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

new classes : The Savage and Engineer :P (or the hippy) or a class that is like the mesmer but messes up the persons mouse and keyboard lol


 * I would like to see profession with Crossbow, Lasso (cowboy xD), Boomerang and Bugs (manipulate bugs as a weapons) -Gusnana1412 12:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

It has been said that all four chapters are related in someway and #4 will tie them together, while also including orr. If Ascolon was France/England, the hiverpeaks were the Norse areas, Kyrta was the carrbian, the desert was the middle east, and and the jungle was deep south America, orr will probebly be a mix beteen Spanish and classic central america. --68.192.188.142 11:34, 1 September 2006 (CDT)


 * According to the official Taiwanese website, there's some connection between Factions and Nightfall. I'm also pretty sure that one of the preview articles was referring to the first three campaigns as a trilogy, however that could've been speculation. Have you got a source for that four campaigns rumour? And does anyone have the URL for the article with the trilogy comment? -- Gordon Ecker 21:09, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Although everything is speculation, there are a lot of interesting and good points that people have made here. An arctic theme would be interesting, possibly involving the story of the dwarves, with themes of Norse, Icelandic, Russian, Alaskan, Inuit, northern Canada, etc. However, I think people would get tired of the same white snow environments. Unless they made snow different colors :-P.

Who knows, possibly going underwater, some lost underwater city or civilization/race, possibly related to the remains of Orr. Then you have a seaweed, fish, water, etc themes. Just my imaginative ramblings. :-) -- theSpectator talk 02:34, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

I expect to see flail or mace wielding heavy armor characters. Perhaps a savage barbarian wielding 2 weapons at once :) It would be extremely lame if they would make a seperate class that wields crossbows. U could just simply make them into a ranger weapon.

An underwater race would be very interesting. I can see them throwing fishing nets on people to snare and kill them with that threeheaded spear thingy (sorry im not English :P). [Sondor]
 * That thingummy, the three-headed spear, is known as a Trident. Furthermore, while I still think it's a bit early, maybe starting around chapter five or so, A-Net has yet to tap into the vast potential gold mine of different races. --67.165.22.236 18:34, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe some "sharks with friggin' lasers beams" for the killing. Their abilities would be the new shouts "I'm lazering your eyes!" while a little chat bubble appears above your head saying "OMG! My eyes are melting in pain!" It's for the best. --Mgrinshpon 17:32, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * In that case, we better also have the ability to fly in that chapter, so there can be Snakes! on a Plane! &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif]] kyrasantae  &#91;t |c &#93;  17:45, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

 Oh! Oh! I want to speculate on professions too! Well... let me get into this by saying:
 * Ritualist was a combination of Monk and Necromancer.. with a tiny bit of Elementalist (lightning spells)
 * Dervish seems to be, at the heart, a mixture of Warrior and Elementalist (scythe-wielding fighter with earth and cold magic) but also a tiny bit of Monk (holy skills)
 * What profession are left? Ranger and Mesmer, of course! Assassins and Paragons are spin-offs in their own right--so they don't count. :)
 * So then, what do you get when you combine the most "nature-obsessed skin-hugging tights" profession with another profession that likes to "play with foe's heads and dress in fancy clothing"?
 * (Nature + Earth) + (Illusions + Beauty) = Werebunnies! And they say I'm not good at math...
 * But seriously, shapeshifting into creatures is a very viable outcome of the two. Think of Magic: the Gathering. Green and Blue. What is a common creature type of the two? Beasts and Mutants; Saprolings and Illusions!
 * Comparisons can be further developed if anyone is familiar with M:tG's recent Simic guild from Ravnica. They wouldn't steal the abilities of others--but only adapt from them!
 * So in conclusion, I think a profession that can "learn" (take that as you may) other's actions and adapt to almost any situation with the aid of natural illusions could be possible... but with that special Guild Wars flair--I would hope it to be more than that! &mdash; [[Image:FeatherSig.png|Feather]] 01:23, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

I want my dual-wielding profession!

No, really. 2 one handed weapons.

Like +25% or 15% attack speed base, while alternating

And with each attribute point raise the speed increase. Could be a tank, or a caster. Probably a tank.

Also, they could give him special new weapons! but not coming in pairs like daggers -.-

BlastedtSee my main character! Basher Of The You! 16:17, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Ye that idea rocks maybe 1 hand could be a lower lvl of the other say 2 axes 1 hi lvl 1 slightly lower but nothing like an assasin which i think is an ele hu cant do magic n picked up the nearest peice of rubbish n tried to stab some1 with it lol. Also I think you should be able to play as a tengu. The way they hold their swords is much better than the old fashioned way. Necromantic Biscuit 14:42, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I just had an idea, based on shape-shifting - lycanthrope! Primary attribute could be shape-shifting (+5 health and +2 armour for every point in alternate form), then you could have wolf form, bear form and rat form; with new types of skills (form attacks that only work when in the corresponding form...)...could be great!

Also perhaps a monk more similar to the DnD style - unarmed combat. Primary attribute could be hand-to-hand, every point makes your unarmed strikes deal 1-2 more damage...they wouldn't need weapons, but could get a sort of 2-handed focus that boosts their energy or something...just ideas, my brain's leaking....

My guild was having a discussion about unarmed combat, It would be really cool we decided. you could have special gloves with spikes or something. Atributes being faster reflexes (fight faster) hand attacks (punching) and foot attacks (kicking). I think it would be awesome. --Runar Funtime 01:19, 23 December 2006 (CST)

If there's anything I really want, then it is a tiki themed expansion.... xD A water mount... Atlantis... Easter Island... Moais... and cannibals ofcourse A map with lots o tiny islands or something... perhaps some Maya/Aztec temples (UFO's and doomsday on 2013 not included) Sephira 15:48, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Gamespy article
The text says that ANet wanted to let people know that development for 3 and 4 were "well underway." This was briefly discussed up in the top section of this talk. --Fyren 15:11, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * re-re-re-added the link back in. While I originally disagreed with it, that link is really the only reason this article exists because of it saying "They wanted to get the word out that development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway, and we'd be able to get a bit of a sneak peek at the new stand-alone expansion." --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:48, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * People and their lack of reading comprehension! --Fyren 03:27, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

PC gamer magazine - Confermation
[From PC Gamer Magazine #154 November 2006]

"Nightfall may be the "apocalypse." but don't worry - Guild Wars Campaign Four is already in the works. ArenaNet is predictably close lipped about wht lies ahead, but you can expect online forums to sizzle with speculation: Storywriter Grubb promises that Nightfall will provide a few tantalizing hints. All the reason to pay extra close attention to the dialogue - you never know when an offhand remark might sqawn a whole new world."

P.S. I hope I didn't break any copyright laws.


 * Confirmation of... what? That chapter 4 exists? Of course it does. Work on it has been started after Factions was released. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 23:46, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * This is mainly meant for any1 who doesnt have 100% proof... as this is proof.


 * The GameSpy article from May 11 2006 already provided the proof when it said "development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway" The PC Gamer mention is mainly old news. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:57, 3 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I am NOT looking forward to campaign 4 if it's made by the same unimaginative people who made Factions. Zzzzzz. --Karlos 10:20, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Unimaginative? I would say Assassin and Ritualist are two pretty damn good classes. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 10:52, 3 October 2006 (CDT).

Most people say Factions was too rushy and therefor it sucks, but I still say is like any other campaign, just that it is a bit fast. What I see is that it's another PvE campaign easier to beat, and I still like it, just that right now, I am a bit busy beating the 3rd. campaign. Solito 09:34, 27 November 2006 (CST)

Hints in previous campaigns
I've compiled a list of unresolved plot threads as of the end of the Nightfall campaign. The only direct hint I've been able to find is the 'northern areas' given a passing mention alongside Tyria and Cantha in the Nightfall manual's timeline. Has anyone else found more direct hints? -- Gordon Ecker 01:01, 12 November 2006 (CST)
 * The Mursaat. The Mursaat themselves were resolved with extreme prejudice, but they still raised some questions. Why were they in the Crystal Desert? Why are they enemies of the Five Gods, the Lich Lord, the Titans and possibly Abaddon?
 * The Seers.
 * The Seekers.
 * Dhuum and Menzies and The Fury are alive and well (or, in Dhuum's case, possibly undead).
 * The Great Giants.
 * The *spoilers for the last mission of Nightfall*.
 * The Great Dwarf and the Great Destroyer. Are they separate entities or just names the Dwarves use for more familiar gods?
 * Gwen.
 * Is the Unseen from the Oddbodies quest line related to the Unseen Ones, or are the similar names just a coincidence?
 * The Forgotten, did the gods create them in 1769 BE, or just bring them over from another world?


 * I'd say the Mursaat and the Seers are the biggest thing that the Guild Wars World can expand upon. Afterall, they played such a big role and were pushed out of the way when the Lich and his Titans showed up.  I'm still a little confused as to whetehr they were good guys ro bad guys exactly!
 * Where I find a great big open plot hole is Kanaxai. He's an evil force at the bottom of the Jade Sea, a Demon, and the Source of all Oni.  Now, seeing as he's the only Demon outside of the Rifts (not counting those brought outside in Nightfall) he's got to be important somehow! -- Lu Zon 13 November 2006 P.S. Despite opinions... I want a Pirate Profession!
 * I'd be a fan of a Mursaat related campaign, it would call ANet to flesh out the Mursaat and their Jade minions, and very likely involve the Seer in some way. It would be interesting to include the Mursaat as allies this time around, but it'd take some adjustment for Tyrian characters. --Valentein 21:05, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * Speaking of the Mursaat, I wonder if the Unseen is related to them. -- Gordon Ecker 02:48, 5 December 2006 (CST)

There is a brief mention in the dialog of Prince Mehtu the Wise of a mysterious island - sort of Atlantis-like. I'm doubtful that anything will take place here, but I wanted to share it just in case. - Lord Ehzed 23:22, 16 November 2006 (CST)


 * I suspect that the mystery island may be related to the dark spot that appears on the map after completing Nightfall and the entrance to Nightfall's elite mission. -- Gordon Ecker 00:40, 17 November 2006 (CST)

I don't know if you can entirely consider the Charr plot resolved -- 10:24, 18 November 2006 (CST)
 * Given mention of the "northern areas" (see above), and that the Charr are from "the area far north of Ascalon", maybe there will be something up there? - Lord Ehzed 13:00, 18 November 2006 (CST)

I suspect the "northern lands" are populated by both Dwarves and Charr. I also think the early history of the Dwarves, the northern lands, the orgin of the stone summit (I think the guild itself is older then the Dwarven civil war) and Kanaxi (who was dug up by Dwarvern miners that traveled to Cantha, case and point the Dredge "found" a tunnel leading from the Shiverpeaks to Cantha, The dredge only found the tunnel and did not actully dig it). I also think the island Prince Mehtu meantions, as well as the Island of Janthir (a holy island to the White Mantel) are one in the same and this island is actully a full-fledged continent and home to the Mursaat and Seers. Thus, there are at least two more continents on Tyria. This leads to two more Guild Wars games that can be made before new games will have to start taking place on other planets.--68.192.188.142 19:33, 19 November 2006 (CST)


 * According to Eurayle Kanaxai was accidentally released by Luxon jade miners. -- Gordon Ecker 02:25, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm Faintly Sure the Charr is done, considering those two quests in the Realm of Torment where that Charr learns that the Titans are using them. Of course, that's one Charr and more often than not people don't listen to that one dude who knows what he's talking about...  But still, it's something to remember.

Considering what Eurayle says I'd say kanaxai is going to be a fun little open ended plot device for a little while, him and Urgoz could probably be used at some point if they want to do a "Sorrow's Furnace" Style upgrade to Factions... I think I said that allready somewhere, too. I'm faintly Certain, too, that from further inspection on the Mursaat and Seers that they are the best thing to expand on if A-net wants to continue it's "Tieing up loose ends" thing. I'm also faintly faint, too much Turkey...-- Lu Zon Turkey Day 2006!
 * The Watchtower Coast description in Beetletun is another open-ended item: "Historians speculate that in time out of mind, these now-ruined watchtowers guarded Kryta from some unknown northern threat. Now the crumbled towers stand like ancient stone soldiers still awaiting the arrival of that mysterious enemy from across the great saltwater lake called Giant's Basin." - the unknown northern threat could easilly be the Mursaat, Seers, Charr, the Great Giants, or even some other race yet to be introduced. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:47, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * I reckon its some other threat that drove the Charr and other groups south, and we will be seeing the area North of Tyria, where there will be plenty of snow :-) --Wormy 15:24, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * The Antarctica comment might also hint at the northern areas, but it might just be a joke. -- Gordon Ecker 21:57, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * And The Fury is dealt with in Domain of Anguish. -- Gordon Ecker 00:23, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'd love to see some fuzzy armor for all the classes! =) &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)

What about the comment at the end of nightfall, by cynn. Can't remember the exact words, but it goes something along the lines of "Let's go home, Peace is boring"... She says it after beating abaddon

I've heard rumers that the new campaign is going to be called Everfrost, but I have yet to confirm this. I think that the new campaign is going to be north, I want to see more of the Charr, so fuzzy and easaly slaughtered..... Runar Funtime


 * They pretty much gave away the entire plot in The Role of a Lifetime. The lich and the volcano options refer to the Lich Lord, and the evil, forgotten god and the death below options refer to Abbadon, so the evil piemaker and minty fresh breath options pretty much have to refer to campaign 4 (or, if they follow the patter more strictly, campaign 5). :D -- Gordon Ecker 04:51, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * Anyone considered the Druids that once lived in the maguuma? didn't they leave (for what reason)?. just a thought. --Caasig 09:13, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * They were driven out by other, more aggressive humans, presumedly deeper into the jungle. The Druids abandoned their physical forms and became spirits ages ago. -- Gordon Ecker 02:11, 13 January 2007 (CST)

I would like to see some new Avatar skills for the Dervish in the upcoming campaigns... Avatar of Abaddon sounds much more promising than Avatar of Kormir... perhaps Avatar of Dhuum...Sephira 14:00, 14 January 2007 (CST)

Avatar of Dhuum: Energy cost 25. For X seconds, whenever any creature in range of you dies, a random minion is created from their corpse. When this runs out, the minions all die.--Runar Funtime 10:51, 15 January 2007 (CST)

You know, I'm surprised that not a soul has mentioned Palawa Joko here after the release of Nightfall. You release him, you help him gain control of the wastes, and then you run off to kill Varesh. Joko is still there, he has a lot of forces, and all the heroes are too busy to stop Nightfall from happening to pose a threat to him. Doesn't an undead lord with an army of minions at his disposal sound like a plausible start for a new storyline? -- Elveh 17:59, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * I think he'd be more likely to invade Elona, but I don't it's going to happen any time soon. He was personally and militarily weakened during his imprisonment, and he's known for his patience. If they eventually release a Guild Wars 2, he'll probably be the main villain of the Elona campaign. -- Gordon Ecker 23:42, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * True enough, but you have to agree that it's a pretty big part of the storyline that's quite unresolved. Ever since I completed Nightfall I've been thinking 'what about Joko?' and I'm hoping they're not just going to ignore it. Who knows, maybe he'll go North instead of South this time. -- Elveh 05:16, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I'm actually hoping the next campaign has "Jeduria" in it somewhere. Third Born ftw. Entropy 16:36, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I would LOVE Palawa Joko heading to Tyria, as an expansion as big as the Sorrows Furnace one...that would just be REALLY cool.--Runar Funtime 23:55, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Video Interview: Possible Chapter 4 Info - Aug. '07, Aztech/Mayans
Original posted on GuildwarsGuru forum: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10083395

Media Interview (dutch): http://media.gamevillage.nl/video/061127_interview_nightfall.wmv

--Gusnana1412 18:23, 29 November 2006 (GMT +1)

Cut'n'paste of Gaile's response from that thread:

Hey, guys,

I don't know who that gentleman is, but he doesn't work for ArenaNet, and I don't think he works for NCsoft in any capacity, either. Which begs the question of why he's being interviewed about our game.

The only information we have at present about Campaign 4 is that there will be a Campaign 4. That's it, honestly!

We have not announced any of the following:

* Release date * Location, Setting, Style, Culture, Theme * Number of characters * Title * Cost * Prerelease Plans * Event Plans * Etc.

In truth, we have not set a release date -- not even internally! So once again, I've no idea where all that "information" came from and I don't believe that it is accurate. (With no disrespect intended to whomever that mysterious interviewee is. ) __________________ Gaile Gray Community Relations Manager ArenaNet The Guild Wars Site So it looks like all that may be speculation. Or maybe she is just playing PR cover-up. --Rainith 16:33, 29 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm willing to bet that the info in the interview pretty much correct. It was leaked, and now Gaile is trying her best to hush it up. I guess somebody is in big trouble for NDA violation right now. :)
 * P.S.: This talk section has the wrong heading text. The interviewed person isn't a "dev". --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:58, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * He is from Easy Interactive. - Cracko 15:39, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * Sorry for the header, change from "Dev" into "Video", thanks for the notice [[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] ;) --Gusnana1412 15:31, 08 December 2006 (GMT +1)

Play.com are tricksy hobbitses
Take a look at this: http://www.play.com/Games/PC/RCS/3-/3275641/Guild_Wars_Campaign_4/Product.html - I hope to god this isn't right. ^^; Capcom 17:16, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * The release date is likely listed as Q1 2007 or first half 2007, and the retailer's system requires an actual fixed date so they made one up on their own - the same thing took place with prior campaigns with several retail sites. Never trust the release date shown by a retail site. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:07, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * availability: Due for release on 01/03/2007 ... So there goes the credibility for play.com!
 * Unless that date is not in the American format. Which would make it March 1 instead. Which is a reasonable date, given the staggered development cycles. --Sunyavadin 22:06, 5 January 2007 (GMT)
 * Unless there's something I missed? ^^ Mightywayne 17:22, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I always knew they were wrong, I was just being silly. :P Capcom 17:27, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * They changed it to 1/9/07 I don't know if we can trust this one but it's much better looking then march :)--Ofer1992 12:13, 16 January 2007 (CST)

By whoever made Factions
If the two teams, one year production, six month per release cycle is true, that means the team that made the great campaigns Prophecies and Nightfall are theoretically working on Campaign Five (if they are done spending their bonuses and back to work), that means the group that made the terrible Factions campaign are working on this. No reason for much hype except for skills that take 2 minutes to make, but 1 second to rig


 * I REALLY hope it's not as bad as factions, which wasn't that bad, imho. I loved running through the Forest, slaughtering all the Wardens I came across.....Runar Funtime


 * Factions was awesome! Don't put it down.  The reason why no one liked it in my opinion is that it didn't have too many quests that showed you around.  If they added a bunch of quests that brought you to the cool locales of Cantha (Do those map maker quests and look around, really) then they'd enjoy it more.  Anyways, yeah, I hope Campeign 4 is just as good. Lu Zon 09:06, 13 December 2006 (CST)


 * "If the two teams, one year production, six month per release cycle is true, that means the team that made the great campaigns Prophecies and Nightfall are theoretically working on Campaign Five" <- Fallacy! Yes, there are two dev teams, but that doesn't mean that each ANet staff member is assigned strictly to one team. I'm sure they switch team members depending on work load, and what phase of development the campaign has reached. For example in the early phase of each chapter there is a lot of concept art work to be done. Towards the middle of a campaign most of the art design should be near finished, and some artists can already be switched over to the next campaign. Most importantly, the key decisions for game design are made by the same people for all chapters. People like Mike O’Brien, Jeff Strain, Patrick Wyatt, James Phinney, and many others are supervising the development of all chapter, and make the overall guidelines. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:42, 13 December 2006 (CST)


 * I don't think it was bad at all... though I do agree it was the weakest of all three campaigns. Here's to hoping these folks got it patted down. ... We could also use some more elementalist-kinda girls. :D Mightywayne 01:04, 29 December 2006 (CST)


 * Amen. Factions was a waste of time, except for spirit bond, which was great while it lasted. --Mgrinshpon 15:28, 7 January 2007 (CST)


 * Wow, honestly I have not yet heard anyone say "Factions was good"..till now! In my opinion Factions was the worst of all. Nightfall I believe ranks in first, followed by Prophecies. (In Factions:)The storyline, voiceovers, and even the environment in some cases (KC & Waijun bazaar made of soda-soaked carton buildings >_< barf!) plainly and simply sucked. The missions were always RUSH! RUSH! RUSH! for masters reward, killing off any socializing with players and real innovative strategy..Personally, I had most fun with Prophecies because missions were cool, slow, and at times lengthy. Perfect oppurtunity to make friends on-line. Not so much in NF since most missions are easily henchable (with heroes of course), most people dont have the patience to sit and wait for a group. Awesome story in NF, I love how they related all 3 chapters by adding one entity to be the source of all evil.
 * I'm going to let other people try it out before I get the 4th Chapter; I don't want to get stuck with a sucky campaign like Factions =S Gabe 09:58, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * Don't start a "Factions sucks" - "No it doesn't" discussion here. (Thou Factions only offered Vampiric Bite and a few other nice skills to me) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:55, 8 January 2007 (CST)

New Professions
I cant really imagine how taxing the prospect of creating two new professions must be... They must run out of ideas at some point. I'm hoping for a summoner in campaign 4. Someone who summons fire golems etc. Would make aan interesting addition to minion factory teams.... Ieldra 07:43, 7 January 2007 (CST)


 * I think that they should make a druid proffession. Resembling the druids of Maguma Jungle. The druid would use the spirits of maguma jungle to cast powerfull spells. Almost like a rit who uses nature. Possibly the druid could take on different aspects of nature. Cats, wolfs, bears. Sort of like the dervish forms, but not elite so that multiple forms could be linked for good combos. Also I think alot of people have wanted an Alchemist as a proffesion. A character who can add almost anybuff in and out of combat. Alchemists would be almost like a priest at a hrine, giving people buffs for 30 minutes at a time, but possibly at the cost of the alchemists materials... --Wakleon 00:27, 24 January 2007 (CST)


 * Well, technically, a Druid is a Ranger--and they have Nature Rituals. But yes, Shapeshifting is something they could touch upon--and they could be classified as Forms, expanding the skills in that type set. I think though, that these new forms must also be Elite--I mean, we can only have 8 skills equipped afterall, what sort of combos could be done involving a few forms? But then... If they did make them elite, then there could be no "While in this form" elite skills, as you could only have 1 Elite equipped, so they would be useless without the said form. :) But, back to speaking of expanding types of skills, Item Spells could be expanded in a new profession as well. (on subject with an "Alchemist" class) Herald Insignia (+10 Armor while holding an Item) is afterall not profession-specific, but only Ritualists use Items (well, and Flag runners). So, maybe they've got more planned for such a thing? &mdash; [[Image:FeatherSig.png|Feather]] 01:00, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * ...secondary ritualists? &mdash;Aranth 11:52, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well yes, but, a universal insigia for only primary and secondary Ritualists and flag runners? Enchantments and Stances are WIDELY used enough, yet items aren't so much... There could be something else planned for them, in my opinion. Or maybe I'm just looking into it too hard? ;) &mdash; [[Image:FeatherSig.png|Feather]] 16:24, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * Wouldn't anything like a Druid be a little cliche at this point? WoW has Were-forms, Diablo 2 had the class, what more is there to expand upon? ANet has done pretty well creating new stuff (new job types, and new ways of using old ones), I'd like to see them try inventing more new stuff Kumdori 16:46, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Whatever it will be... I hope it will have the Can-Can dance xD Sephira 14:23, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I think they should have a Berserker class, with a primary atribute that lets them do more damage the longer they've been attacking. And a techmancer class, with traps and sabatage hexes.--TheDrifter 16:05, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Guild Wars: Utopia?
http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=guildwarsutopia.com&prog_id=godaddy

ArenaNet has bought the domain guildwarsutopia.com, they did this for Factions and Nightfall too, just a little find. ADDED onto what I posted ealier, they also bought .net and .org -Thorton


 * Might be, but doesn't sound as good as the previous names. Maby they are tricking us this time. Or not... --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 09:24, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * Blech! Awful name IMO.  :(  --Rainith 11:59, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * Worst. Name.  Ever.  Brought to us by the same team as Factions ... sigh.
 * WARNING! RUNAWAY SPECULATION IN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES!
 * On the upside ... to me, "Utopia" brings to mind thought of places like "Shangri-La", which was supposedly located in the Himalayan mountains. That would tie in nicely with the rumors and speculation that I've read about a northern / mountainous / icy theme for campaign four.  No official confirmation on any of this - but the random rumors do tie together nicely. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:20, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * That makes alot of sense. Look at it this way, The Prophecies team added onto Tyria, why wouldn't the Factions team add onto Cantha? Shangri-La seems sort of Asian themed from what I've seen. -Thorton &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thorton (contribs).


 * Anyone else notice that ANet hasn't yet trademarked "Guild Wars Utopia"? Makes me wonder if the domain registration may not be directly related to C4.  One would think that they would want to register the trademark as soon as possible if that's to be the campaign's name. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:02, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * If that site is right, they haven't trademarked any of the Guild War series yet. :D &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 15:05, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Re-check how you did your search - it shows all of the prior campaigns have been trademarked. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:16, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Different page thean where I was, lol :P &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 15:18, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * IIRC, trademarks are established through use. Registration is just to get the (R) with the extra protection that offers. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 15:20, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * If I recall correctly, Nintendo Wii did the same thing. Made me hope with all my gaming ventricle that it was a decoy name. It wasn't. -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 01:23, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Maybe its not a campaign name but a name for something else they are introducing. (For example, an online store site that offers physical objects? Utopia might just be a catchy name for that) It could also be a new server format or something that you can add on to the game. I hope it isn't the name of Campaign 4 :( Alreajk

remember the vabian guy said of a place like atlantis, this may seem utopia-ish... :: Soqed Hozi ::  11:05, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * Yeah, Prince Mehtu the Wise. The wierd thing is that Orr is the closest thing Guild Wars has to Atlantis. -- Gordon Ecker 18:51, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * Utopia rumor being squished @ Gamespot. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:28, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * The "WhoIS" lookup has been changed as of Jan 19th - it appears that NCSoft is attempting to distance themselves from the domain name. The registrant name and address have both been change from NCSoft in Autin Texas, to "GuildWarsUtopia.com" with a PO box in Vancouver Washington. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:17, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmmm, anyone try calling the phone number listed? --Rainith 16:59, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's a recorded generic message from a domain privacy company. It says if you want to contact the owner of this domain, please send an express or certified letter to the address provided on the WhoIS listing. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:47, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Too bad, it has the correct area code for that city, but then again that is the correct area code for a lot of areas in western Washington, and with VoiP you can get most any area code. --Rainith 19:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Is there a way to sreach "Whois" entries by the name of the registrant? -- Fabius

Speculation - Pattern of Past Chapters
I may just be seeing patterns where none exist, but if this pattern continues, it's sensible that chapter 4 may have themes of water. Craw   15:09, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Chapter 1 - Fire  - 'Charr', 'Searing', 'Ring of Fire', 'Flameseeker Prophecies'.
 * Chapter 2 - Air - The Mists, Jade Wind, Miasma (through it, the afflicted), Spirits.
 * Chapter 3 - Earth - Earth Elementals dominant throughout, monoliths, excavation of a god, ruins, desert/tundra.

I'd love water. Imagine the Jade Sea, but good. 24.149.187.180 21:17, 21 January 2007 (CST)

And when water freezes and falls from the sky, what do you get? SNOW!--Runar Funtime 19:46, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * meh, Abaddon was the god of water in his day --FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.gif]] 19:55, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * But Abaddon wasn't the original god in that position. Perhaps the 4th campaign will deal with the original god/dess of water; they'll be back for vengeance now! Capcom 20:03, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Like the look of this idea, and knowing about the appearance of ships and other things water may seem logical. HOWEVER, i think that a-net would limit themselves to much in order to do this, ie. what for campaign 5?  :: Soqed Hozi ::  13:56, 14 January 2007 (CST)

(Spoilers)Yup, Abaddon killed the first God of Water or whatever, then took over. Then we killed Abaddon, and Kormir took over that position.--Runar Funtime 10:57, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Not Exactly, Kormir is the Godess of Truth and Knowledge and Grenth is the God of Death and Water Acglaphotis

Link
Is it just me or does the link at the bottom lead to information about Campaign 3, or otherwise known as Nightfall? --Deathwing 22:12, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's primarilly about C3; it's listed here because of a single sentence saying "They wanted to get the word out that development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway". --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:15, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * They also say this about Nightfall "Finally, there were images of two of the new classes. Both were women wearing silky, light-colored I Dream of Jeannie-type outfits, one carrying a staff with fetishes on it, the other wearing a veil." Can it really be THAT credible : / --Deathwing 22:23, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * The outfits could be early concept art for Vabbian Armor. As for the staff (also described as a "bladed staff" in other E3 articles), it could be an ornate spear or scythe, or a staff from back when Dervishes were supposed to be martial artists. Gordon Ecker 23:46, 11 January 2007 (CST)

"Spam" removed by 69.14.178.178 (see history)
I saw two external links were removed by 69.14.178.178 in a previous edit, and personally, I think those two links are completely legitimate and relevant. Having said that, and realizing that the template at the top says it is "preliminary information", I'm going to put those links back in. -- Imbril Shadowfire  01:49, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Oops, I hope that wasn't me. I read that and saw that there was nothing there to do with Chapter four. If there was, I'm sorry. Ill go look at it now and put it back if need be. --- Alreajk


 * it also says only info provided by anet themselves --FireFox [[Image:firefoxav.gif]] 19:24, 13 January 2007 (CST)
 * Same thing happenned with Campaign Three as well. As a site, we only placed a note at the top of the page which referenced the fact that ArenaNet had registered the sites.  I've now copied the exact wording from that article and inserted it here - no need for a link as it's not informative.
 * On the Wikipedia link - I see no value in it. The article tells us nothing factual that we don't already document ourselves.  In fact, I'm surprised that article hasn't been flagged by the Wikipedia community as it fails their normal requirements - it currently contains massive amounts of speculation, guess work, and weasel words. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:32, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Oops, I hope that wasn't me. I read that and saw that there was nothing there to do with Chapter four. If there was, I'm sorry. Ill go look at it now and put it back if need be. --- Alreajk


 * The article there states exactly what it says next to the link. It confirms that development is underway on the fourth GW game.  --Rainith 21:48, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Bahltek
This guy's interesting. -- Gordon Ecker 02:14, 13 January 2007 (CST)
 * Holy bananas, you're right! Craw   11:58, 13 January 2007 (CST)

I like his quote "I am able to safeguard my person without employing ungainly forged chitin and sharpened lenghts of metal". That explains almost perfectly a warrior. And he IS interesting...though what he says is pretty confusing.--Runar Funtime 00:58, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Guild Wars Utopia?
Registrant: NCsoft, Inc. - Austin 6801 N Capital of TX Hwy. Bldg. 1, Ste. 102 Austin, TX 78731 US

Registrar: DOTSTER Domain Name: GUILDWARSUTOPIA.COM Created on: 14-JUN-06 Expires on: 14-JUN-08 Last Updated on: 09-JAN-07

found here;

http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=guildwarsutopia.com&prog_id=godaddy

Source: IGN GW Forum --68.209.227.3 00:29, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * Old rumor - see thread above. Also see Gamespot posting where rumor of name is denied by ArenaNet representative. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:30, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Anyone noticed the picture in this gamespot article?


 * It looks like a screenshot from one of the Nightfall preview videos. Gordon Ecker 21:13, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Some interesting pieces of info from the Arena.Net site
They have finally updated their site, but the important thing i noticed is that they wrote two things. heres a qoute:

'ArenaNet is currently working on a fourth campaign that will once again expand the explorable world of Guild Wars and provide       ever-deepening insight into the history of that world and the stories of its people. It is scheduled for release in 2007.''' '' oops forgot to add my signing.--Ofer1992 15:46, 20 January 2007 (CST)

http://www.arenanet.com/games/default.php 132.203.83.38 22:38, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Except...that doesn't add anything we didn't know. In escense it means that Campaign 4 will expand on the guild wars world, and give more history about stuff. All the campaigns have done that.--Runar Funtime 20:32, 22 January 2007 (CST)


 * Well, it indicates that the story will not move to another world. Bahltek's comment could otherwise be interpreted that way. And it gives us an official releasy year :-)--Per Abrahamsen 20:58, 22 January 2007 (CST)


 * Given the context, 'world' may mean 'setting' (World of Warcraft already has 2 planets). Expanding the map of Tyria is almost certain in every campaign due to the boat travel system, but that doesn't precludle the existance of offworld regions. -- Gordon Ecker 23:19, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Giants bason......--Runar Funtime 23:58, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * Huh?? -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 00:15, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * I assume Giant's Basin. (Due to the mention of unknown threat to the north.) - Lord Ehzed 11:51, 24 January 2007 (CST)

And that Cantha has traded with "lands north of Tyria" according tot he niscructin booklet. I gess Galie's comment about the land being cold wasn't a joke. Maybe the Dwarves and Charr came from there? Well, too bad it dosn't take place in Janthir. I guess the mystery of the Mursaat wil be revaled later.--TheDrifter 15:59, 24 January 2007 (CST)

How could charr come from there? Charr love fire, so I expect they won't live in a cold, snowy region. -- S i  g  m  a   16:09, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * Unless of course, if your survial was based on keeping fires burning for warmth. Then you might worship fire! *shrug* - Lord Ehzed 16:57, 24 January 2007 (CST)


 * Why do you think they have big fur pelts and like fire? To keep warm on the cold northern nights.  ;)  --Rainith 16:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)


 * Agree. I find the idea that Charr, being large fuzzy things, originating from a warm climate rather unlikely --Kumdori 17:06, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Plus the Charr are from "North of Ascalon", which if I recall, stretchs all the way north. Thus, the Charr are from the "northern lands". And I'm with on the pelt thing Rainith. Well, a fe more months and we'll see if this theory hold any water.--TheDrifter 20:12, 24 January 2007 (CST)

But, do we meet Ice Golems there? And more dwarves? or even Gnomes!? or What about Bigfoot?! And a new pet: Snow Leopard =), Snow Fox or a Snow rabbit:P OPr we could tame Yeti ^^

The thruth about chapter 4
Go here for all the details: chapter 4 --Phoenix  16:54, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * ftw :p &mdash; Skuld 16:56, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * lol. M s4 17:44, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Somehow I'm scared now. xDDD [kicks Gwen] -- Elveh 17:45, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Huh ... that looks a lot like Guild Wars Miners and Traders and the related Pre-Order Package. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:49, 25 January 2007 (CST)