Talk:Frenzy

How is "I will avenge you!" a related skill for Frenzy?? Generally I think if we list a skill as "related" we should explain HOW or WHY it is related. --Tetris L 21:09, 23 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I agree, I had a debate with Cloak of Letters about that once. In any case, the connection here is the increase in speed of attack. --Karlos 21:28, 23 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Errm ... that's a rather loose relationship. We might as well list all warrior skills as related skills because they are all warrior skills. I think we should limit the "related" section for skills that are used in "combos", if you know what I mean. --Tetris L 21:32, 23 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Come on! It's not THAT loose of an affiliation. :) I mean, when I am looking for skills to raise the AL of my flimsy ele, I like to look at all skills that do that and balance the disadvantages. Here for example, Frenzy causes you double damage, Flurry causes your damage to be less while Victory is mine relies on your party being on the brink of extinction.. :)
 * But, as I said, I think you are on the right track. We could have a subsection in Related Skills that says: "Skills that also do XYZ" and another about "Skills used in combination" and a third about "Skills to counter" that would be taking the Skills in our Wiki to the next level. --Karlos 21:50, 23 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Can't the Usage Notes include "Skills used in combination"? --Kenthar 16:35, 20 October 2005 (EST)

Out of bitter, spiteful curiosity - is there any skill available in the game that's somehow worse than Frenzy? Something that'll get you killed even faster, some kind of spell or skill that just causes you to explode or something? --Black Ark 09:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Any person with a brain uses rush to cancel it when they start taking dmg.. ppl don't maintain it &mdash; Skuld  09:48, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes. Thank you. I don't recall asking "how do people apply Frenzy effectively?" or "how ever do people manage to stop using it?", but you know, thanks so much for answering the questions I didn't ask. --Black Ark 09:58, 20 July 2006 (CDT)


 * "Yes, I hate Frenzy. Why'd you ask?" &mdash; Skuld  10:00, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Any time you're ready to make your point, I'll be here to listen and show care. So don't let me stop you. --Black Ark 10:05, 20 July 2006 (CDT)


 * In PvP, the two most probable skills on a warrior's bar are frenzy and rush or sprint. --68.142.14.19 09:53, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And then the W gets a random heavy-instant-damage spell thrown on him from someone else than his/her target. -Ichigo724 17:46, 11 October 2006 (CDT)


 * There are plenty. Orison of Healing, for example, is a much worse skill than Frenzy in terms of doing what they're intended to do. Shocking, I know, yet true. --Vindexus 20:28, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
 * BiP and Awaken is a good way to get yourself dead, but you'd have to try with BiP/Awaken. Frenzy can get you killed with a fifth that effort. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:04, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Any warrior with a brain uses Rush or Sprint to switch out of frenzy while under attack.--Spawn 01:33, 2 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Orison is supposed to heal, it heals. This is supposed to increase attack rate, however it also makes you a squishy. -Ichigo724 17:46, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Frenzy is reckless. The people that I have come across are even MORE reckless. I don't see why any one would WILLINGLY take double damage. A smart warrior is rare to come by. I have cast Spiteful Spirit and Reckless Haste on so called "professional PVP warriors" and then sat there WATCHING them kill themselves. No really. I actually typed /sit. I always look to a skill bar to see if that warrior's using Frenzy to see their experience too. Not just IF they have it, but WHEN they use it. I was once healing in HA. In my team was a frenzy hammer warrior. He immediately picked up the resurrection orb and then dropped it and said "Sry. I forgot I ws a worrior". I wanted to kill him myself for that one. I just let Frenzy do that for me. On a side note, why use it at all? So you swing a little faster? A ranger can probably pull it off since they're not on the front lines taking as much damage as a warrior. Even then, Practiced Stance, Choking Gas and Flurry is enough of a combination that not only AVOIDS the double damage, but attacks fast too with a short bow. In the end, in all the time I've been in PVP and PVE, I have NOT ONCE seen some one use Frenzy wisely. Darkobra
 * Heh, when you did that you should've said, "Sorry, I forgot I was a monk." Thoughtful 21:49, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

about Ineptitude and Clumsiness while using Frenzy
(cur) (last) 12:42, 20 July 2006 PanSola (Talk | contribs) m (→Usage Notes - how does one-time hexes have anything to do with this skill?)

Basause the damage from them is conditional (triggered) - it can be avoided unlike other direct damage skills or spells. And similarly to Empathy you should stop attacking if you get hexed with them (and have time to react of course) ...
 * It's avoided by not attacking. It's not avoided by using or not using frenzy.  --68.142.14.19 09:30, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Same goes for Empathy.
 * However, wouldn't faster attack rate make it harder NOT to stop attacking with ineptitude/clumbsiness? And it'll be twice as painful. -Ichigo724 17:46, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yup, thats one of the bad things about IAS skills --Arthas 09:43, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

mathmatics of frenzy
before anyone goes running of to RA with frenzy on their skill bar, they should be aware of some things. first, double damage from frenzy has been equated to -40 armor from heal signet, which is not entirely accurate. for attacks and skills that deal non-ignoring damage without +damage, thats true, however, for +damage, and other armor ignoring effects, which the warrior is more likely to be the target of, the damage is still doubled through frenzy.

consider the following example: a warrior with gladiators armor, healing signet and frenzy is facing a warrior wielding an icy sword1, 13 swordsmanship, and galrath slash. if the attacker lands galrath slash under normal circumstances, it would do 50 damage2. if the same attack were to land while our target warrior is using heal signet, the same attack would do 64. if the same attack were to land while our target was in frenzy rather then heal signet, that attack would do a devastating 99 damage.

note that the base attack in both cases did 21 damage, but with the plus damage doubled for frenzy, the difference is staggering.

1 we are using elemental weapon damage because it negates absorption without ignoring armor. 2 equations available on request.

--Honorable Sarah 13:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Frenzy doesn't double life steal. --68.142.14.19 13:55, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * True that. Life stealing isn't damage, therefore is not affected by anything that says damage. --Theonemephisto 14:09, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * This is true. My cheap RA-built R/N can attest to this. I still think Frenzy is a terrible waste of a skill-slot, but I don't intend to sell it as worse than it already is. --Black Ark 14:15, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * amended --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 14:35, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

This is a great skill for PvE as a ranger. Massive attack speed + Kindle Arrows. -karthego
 * Flail's better imo.

Putting aside mathematics for a second, since all that is obvious, look at it using simple logic. Who would sanely train a warrior nonstop? - LightningHell

If I have 500 health and use frenzy followed by protective spirit would I take 100 damage, or 50? Also, does it matter which order I cast them?
 * 50, no. The Hobo 00:03, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Frenzy Hate
everyone who has been hating on frenzy makes me sad. seriously. Best PVP IAS, hands down. The only time the double damage is an issue is if you suck. Thom Bangalter
 * So you suck if a random ele decides to change target and lightning orb you? -Ichigo724 13:05, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yes &mdash; Skuld 13:44, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * k. -Ichigo724 15:34, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * Orb has a two second cast time, fyi.--Silk Weaker
 * And you're constantly mashing tab to see what everyone's doing, magically knowing their target? -Ichigo724 05:16, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * If you're good enough. Can't you tell whether the emo is casting Air Magic or Healing Prayers? --Silk Weaker
 * So you can tell when people suddenly change target? Become a psychic, you'll make millions. -Ichigo724 06:20, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * Skill animation. Maybe you're just not good at it, that's all.--Silk Weaker
 * And if a teammate's behind/in front of you (relative to the enemy E's location), you can tell if he'll zap you and not him? -Ichigo724 10:56, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * You cancel stance anyway. Weigh the risk and reward: canceling a four second stance and missing out on a bit of damage and 2 strikes of adrenaline or getting orb'ed for double damage and gaining 2 adrenaline -- your call. --waywrong 22:14, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * I would say that it depends, but that's the gist of it. I think a good warrior would know when to frenzy and when to cancel. I can't pretend I've never been caught frenzying, but the output it provides more than the risk. For the record, I've never risked a game due to frenzy, even though I don't war a lot. At most I get a few pricks. I do appreciate the fact that SF and other AoE skills, especially in HA, makes frenzy relatively unusable though. --Silk Weaker
 * So what if the ele Lightning Orbs you? I don't get the point.--LightningHell

It had its time, but Flail almost completely replaces it. Arshay Duskbrow 13:12, 17 November 2006 (CST)
 * The speed decrease for Flail really hurts though, especially if you are axe or hammer: if you want to build adrenaline while it's active you have to find a way to stick a rake combo in there somewhere in addition to your damage moves, and your cancel stance; or if you're hammers you're gonna have to blow a knockdown to keep them still or hope that "You're All Alone!" will work. No doubt that sword warriors will love Flail, but I'd probably still stick to Frenzy as an axe/hammer warrior. --waywrong 21:54, 17 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well yes. I meant for PvE, which is what I mostly play. ^_^ PvP wise, Frenzy will still rule. Even leaving aside the speed debuff, Frenzy is Energy-based, and always ready when you need it. Arshay Duskbrow 04:49, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * I sure hope so :P I pity the monks that have pve Frenzy warriors in their group -_-; --waywrong 22:14, 24 November 2006 (CST)
 * Why? It means they have warriors with a clue. Fleming
 * Flail+Pious Haste or Dash is better most of the time now :D &mdash; Skuld 04:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

Frenzy is without doubt one of the worst skills in the game. Not because of its effect, which is ok, but for the fact that I now have a guildie who thinks that every warrrior build without it is rubbish. All skills have its uses, Flail, Flurry, Berserker Stance AND Frenzy, but somehow I can't get through to him that in Conjure builds with less than max weapon mastery, Frenzy might not be the best skill to add, especially since its support skills take up so much room. *sigh*
 * The only time I wouldn't use frenzy on a warrior would be some hammer bars and possibly a splitter. What support skills do you need?  All you need is a speedboost stance, which you should be using either way because of the fact that people kite.  Why on earth would you be taking neither the only good warrior IAS (besides some hammers) nor speedboost? --Theonemephisto 16:21, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * if i ever see anyone using this in pvp or pve i rarely bother keeping them alive because it makes you take double damage!and since most of the time its a warrior using it and warriors are meant to take aggro its sortve useless unless you plan on not tanking ... which would make you useless anyways because an ele could do your job much better then or anything else even like a dervish or assassin even--Nowayman 22:51, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Warriors aren't meant to take aggro, that's just a players mentality. They're meant to be the frontline that separates the monsters from the casters while still dealing damage in the process. In PvP, Frenzy is the best IAS in the game, no questions asked, and arguing otherwise shows you really don't know PvP. --Kale Ironfist 00:13, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * yeah and if your in the front line you are taking the agro and you would be supprised how many warriors i have seen using frenzy as their only stance in PvP and PvE and yes i do some- a lot of PvP at times and I still refuse to heal them if they use frenzy as a warrior because if you want IAS be an assassing with high dagger mastery and high critical strikes you will take more damage then a warrior without frenzy but less then a warrior with frenzy and you will be able to do a lot more damamge then a warrior Nowayman 17:06, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Frenzy prolly had a use - back b4 people experimented much with builds - but tigers stance and flail are more usefull - u dont take double damage and flail can be kept up 100% of the time - u just need the cancel stance - frenzy is too dangerous - and the argument that u are too stuped if u die with frenzy up - thats just a crock of **** - u cant know who is targeting u all the time - as stated above - we gotta be psychic do we? - if u are smart u wont bother with frenzy - it may have been usefull once apon a time but these days people are going to slaughter u - i know i slaughter frenzy using people - when u do 250+ dmg with a Vos derv to a warrior thats when u need to laugh--XistdedOne 00:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * One big thing about Flail besides its speed reduction is that it costs Adrenaline, this can slow-down your spike one more attack, or maybe stop your spike completely because you target moved and you couldn't land that hit. Tiger Stance is just too rechargey, the closest thing to Frenzy would be Burst of Aggression, which I enjoy quite a bit. Frezny still has a very good use. Zulu Inuoe 07:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Frenzy is good when you're smarter than your opponents. That's all. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * With that logic, Frenzy is always good for me. Zulu Inuoe 03:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

need nf & factions trainer
This skill needs the factions & NF skill trainer. Xeon 04:46, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * You get this skill upon changing secondary to Warrior. So I would bet you get it automatically as a Warrior. This is on a NF Monk. I don't know if that helps.

Life Stealing
Double, or not becuz life stealing isn't dmg...
 * exactly, life stealing isnt damage. (it wont be doubled) -- Xeon 13:49, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Changes
Removed the stub status, added Flail and Flurry as related skills since they both have constant conditionals to the attack speed buff. Rhia Aryx 02:20, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's a stub because it's missing the Factions and NF trainers (have to have both) and other than the QR Flail and Flurry have nothing in common with Frenzy --Gimmethegepgun 03:03, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I had added Flail and Flurry because they both give the attack speed with a cost. Frenzy gives the boost at the cost of double damage; Flail gives the boost at the cost of movement speed; Flurry gives the boost at the cost of dealing less damage. Added the skill trainers. Rhia Aryx 08:55, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Are the trainers (Tohn, Michiko, and Zhao Di) I added viable? Or does that I have the skill unlocked on my account nullify any information I can get on its trainers?Rhia Aryx 08:59, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If skills are unlocked then locations you find are not viable, as they can be bought anywhere --Gimmethegepgun 09:03, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Then make sure to add Tiger's Fury since it causes your stuff to be disabled, oh and don't forget Heket's Rampage since it ends if you use an attack skill, Berserker's Stance since it ends when you use a skill, DBS too! Then in that case, you should also even count Reckless Haste, I mean it DOES increase your attack speed!! Face it, a large portion of the game's IAS skills have a downside to using them, be it a direct downside like Frenzy or Flurry, a high cost, and/or bad duration:recharge ratio. The only real relation they have to each other is that they increase your attack speed, and that is covered by the QR at the bottom --Gimmethegepgun 09:02, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * lol, good point. And I'll remove the skill trainers I added, if you haven't beaten me to it :P Rhia Aryx 09:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Interesting... According to my in-game research, after the duration Frenzy lasts is over, you stop attacking 33% faster.  Interesting...
 * I pray you're not serious. Snagretpudding 00:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL--58.161.132.1 14:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)