Talk:Acolyte Sousuke

Sousuke looks like Sasuke, but in nature he's more like Sagara Sousuke from Full Metal Panic who responded to emergencies or suspicious packages with explosives --BeeD 02:19, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Whoa, I just noticed... he looks an awful lot like Sasuke from Naruto. And his name is rather close as well. Anyone else think this warrants probable cause for it to be a legitimate reference? - Capsule Computer

His character is almost the oppisite... i hvae a pic of his other armor too if its needed (no idea how to fdo it though XD)--Blade 14:16, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Well, it's not like the entire character has to be like the reference for it to be a reference. Lina the henchman is a reference to Lina Inverse in name only, for example. Sousuke has both a similar name and facial appearance to Sasuke. (Remember too that there's already at least one Naruto reference with one of the Assassin hairstyles.) - Capcom 17:11, 21 November 2006 (CST) Capsule Computer

I almost spilled my coffee when i saw the name sousuke. pity his personality is exactly opposite of him. I thought ANet got the quotes wrong for jin and sousuke. it'd be funny if sousuke in game has the personality of jin, then throws a quote: "i got a brother, and i intend to him him"... Xiao1985 00:37, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Now his third armour set makes him look like Itachi to me... Capcom 21:11, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Hmm, also do you think it's a coincidence that he's an Elementalist? I know it would be better if he was Assassin, but he DOES use Fire Jutsu, doesn't he? Connection: Fire Magic, Fire Jutsu? 70.146.250.103 00:40, 6 January 2007 (CST)

haha I think you guys watched too much tv/ anime...w/e

I watch anime too, but used to watch it...

hmm...

interesting, didn't know A-Net even KNEW about Naruto stuff 0.0 --Faqcorner 02:13, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Right... I also didn't realize those were just normal people with hobbies and interests that normal people usually have... >.< -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:17, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Idle quote - location dependent?
The quote "I wonder what the Sunspears were doing so far north? How very odd." is not depending on the storyline, but may depend on location. I got this quote while traveling through the Northern Shiverpeaks on the way to Ascalon with my Elonian char. So you may not get it in Elona. Balwin 15:09, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm... yes, Sousuke, that's kinda odd :P But seriously, if that quote a bit weird? I mean, he is with the Sunspears yet he's referring them like they're some other entity. Couldn't the north be referring to the Vabbi? The Desolation? Heck, even Kourna? I have no idea though. I really really hope it's not based on region. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 21:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Sousuke is a Zaishen, not a Sunspear, so that's why he's referring to them as a separate entity. Could he be referring to 'the Elonians' who died in the Crystal Desert? Cynical 09:31, 5 February 2007 (CST)
 * I know he's a Zaishen, I didn't say he was a Sunspear, I said he was with the Sunspears. He's part of the group (namely, our characters) spearheading the push into Kourna, Vabbi, the Desolation, and then Realm of Torment. So there couldn't be any Sunspears further north than him. That's what I meant about the weirdness of the wording, as it doesn't seem to refer to any part of the storyline. As for the Elonians in the Crystal Desert, those were specifically followers of Turai Ossa, ancestors of the Kournans. Definitely not Sunspears. Sunspears are tasked with protecting Elona, so I'm doubtful that a significant number of them would go with Turai to seek Ascension. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 20:27, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I think he also says something like "Burn 'Em Down!" during a fight, I'm pretty sure of that becuase thats always my nick :P -BurnEmDown- 14:09, 12 February 2007 (CST)

Let's settle the Sasuke reference once and for all
The trivia mention of Sousuke being influenced by Sasuke of Naruto fame has been added and removed several times. Some people claim that Sousuke is a common Japanese name, hence the fact that it's impossible for such a reference to be even remotely likely. The latest removal by Erszebet cited that it did not have consensus, which I surmise to be based on that short little discussion at the top of the page that doesn't sound like disagreement either. And really, does something as trivial as trivia require consensus? I'd also like to point out several trivia mention whose links were also quite tedious and would suggest removing them as well: There's probably a lot more, but I got tired of searching.
 * Mesmer - is very likely that the name just came from the word "mesmerize" rather than having anything remotely related to Frank Anton Mesmer.
 * Ascalon City (Post-Searing) - aside from a similarity in spelling, there's nothing in the history of Ashkelon to warrant a mention.
 * Sogolon the Protector - aside from "Sogolon" being spelled the name as another name for Sundiata Keita, what else is there to tie them?
 * Lightning Orb - right... it's so terribly unlikely that someone could've have just made up "Lightning Orb" from, say, Fireball, without being inspired by "Ball Lightning".
 * Althea's Ashes - so the moment I come up with names like "Abigail's Ashes", "Alice's Ashes", etc. and despite them really being ashes, I'm sure I got inspired by a book I haven't even heard about.
 * "I Will Avenge You!" - that's just a corny line that can be heard in many movies and read in many books. Why BG:Dark Alliance only?
 * Duke Barradin - this is an NPC, Baradin Bay in WoW is a location. "Baradin" can be seen in an old Ultima.
 * Ring of Fire Islands - if I design volcanic islands, I'm probably tempted to call them Ring of Fire as well, so the Pacific reference is again guesswork.
 * Hagen - Hagen is a hero in Norse mythology? So? He's not a hero here.

Long story short: A trivia mention, is just that: trivia. It's not fact, it's not absolute in its claim. It's just something that certain individuals believe there's a likelihood of a reference. I just think it's illogical to totally remove any mention of it while other more tenous statements are allowed to remain.

From the examples, I fail to see why some of those are acceptable yet this particular one is not. This Sasuke reference possibility is acceptable to me, especially since several edits think so enough to prompt them to edit it in. If someone else thinks it's Ranma, fine, add it in. I've also already added in the fact that some people consider Sousuke to be a common Japanese name and is just a random selection. If consensus and general agreement is required for trivia, I suppose the examples above should have their trivia removed/reworded, since I obviously don't agree with them.

And just a little disclaimer, I was not the person who originally added the trivia and I'm not a fan of Naruto. I can't believe I'm making such a big fuss over something as trivial as trivia.... >.< I need a break. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 10:09, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Overal I agree with you on the trivia examples you mentioned - they are far-fetched at best. I just used the 'no-consensus' line because it was actually discussed here and there was at least some doubt. Trivia doesn't need consensus, but I guess if you look hard enough you'll probably find another dozen anime characters that happen to look like Sousuke so as far as I'm concerned the reference stays out... If it'll make people happy you can always revert the edit, or maybe you and I should start a 'remove doubtful trivia sections'-crusade? :p --Erszebet 14:29, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I understand your point of view regarding the doubts, I just think even doubtful references can be warranted if enough ppl think so. Since we'll probably never get any actual feedback from Anet, we can't just rule out that there's absolutely no possibility of a reference. I can't really revert it can I reverted it from the last time it was removed, so I'd be breaking the GW:1RV rule :P -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:51, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess I'll put that reference back than ? --Erszebet 08:18, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * After a weekend off from the wiki, I don't care anymore :P I was just kinda hoping to get other people involved in discussing on vague or how strong a particular possible trivia reference should be before being allowed. If we keep it removed, do you think we should go and remove or reword some of the other trivia points I noted above? -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 20:34, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * hey guys, Sasuke, is the name of the most famous Japanese ninja. Sasuke from Naruto is a reference to that ninja. the only people who would suspect that sousuke is a reference to naruto, are probably already naruto fans. -- 75.36.89.227 22:13, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I've never seen Naruto but sousuke looks alot like the guy in the cited picture of the naruto dude. I'm inclined to think that this is a valid reference&mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 22:27, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

wait someone really thinks althea's ashes have anything to do with angela's ashes?! that's... really farfetched. I've read Angela's Ashes. A lot of the trivia is farfetched. Some things are common enough sayings that you don't need to find a source. While its true that alot of the paragon shouts come from things and stuff like that, i think, unless its rather obvious that something is referencing something else, it should be left out. if you think that there might be a reference, toss it on the talk page. Then if like a few people go "oh yeah! thats totally like that," maybe then it could be added. I personally think Kitah's Burden is "Kiter's Burden" but I brought it up on the talk page and no one else really seemed to agree so there it stayed. But mesmer, the word mesmerize also is comes from Franz mesmer. I wouldn't mind pruning the triva and moving it to the talk pages in alot of cases. &mdash; JediRogue  21:19, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * What definately should be done is moving trivia to the "notes" section (where applicable). Some people tend to mix them up. I'm also in favor of moving highly doubtful trivia to the talk pages (f.i. Hagen-trivia). The one about Lightning Orb should just be removed (imho). I usually check the recent changes for NPC articles so I'll keep an extra eye on those :) --Erszebet 15:09, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Sigh. Fyren just removed the Sasuke trivia again. Since it's usually anon users who add and veteran registered users who remove, I'll go with the remove crowd then and be done with it. -- Ab.Er.Rant [[Image:User Aberrant80 Sig.png]] (msg Aberrant80) 11:02, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Fyren has attempted to remove most anime references this morning. We're currently discussing some of that on the Ryoko discussion page if you'd like to join.  I agree that Trivia doesn't have to have consensus.  I think that's silly.  But there can't be any trivia if it's constantly wiped out in its entirety.--Ninjatek 11:10, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

Ach, I try to avoid trivia discussions, but this irritated me greatly - "Mesmer - is very likely that the name just came from the word "mesmerize" rather than having anything remotely related to Frank Anton Mesmer." The word "mesmerize" came about because of Franz Mesmer. He was the first hypnotist, it's only natural that they name a word describing what he did after him. So... that bit of trivia is correct and accurate. - Auron 11:15, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I totally said that already =/. But anyway, I think this is one of few valid references. I think if there are more than one thing to make the connection (doesn't it look like that naruto fellow?) then it probably is valid. If its just a common name or a really obscure possible reference, its probably not. In the long run, the fact that there is a possible reference has been so documented here its unbelievable. We won't lose much by not putting it on the main page. The other thing is: Does anyone actually care about trivia they don't get? I mean, if I see a reference to something I've never heard of, I don't care. I don't think its interesting or relavent. If I see a reference to something I did already know (such as Can't Touch This) I don't need the trivia to tell me. How important is it that we state the obvious? If a Naruto fan comes across it, they will think "oh a naruto reference". If a person who don't give a damn about Naruto comes along, they won't miss the reference. &mdash; [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]]Rogue  17:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You're right. Which is why I don't understand why people just like to delete the Sasuke reference. I mean, if it kept getting added by several different people, I'm sure there's at least some possibility, since alot of people think that. Auron, as for the mesmer reference, by the time you read that, I've already reworded it. The old version actually attributes the "Mesmer" to Frank Anton Mesmer himeself, rather than the word "mesmerize". -- Ab.Er.Rant [[Image:User Aberrant80 Sig.png]] (msg Aberrant80) 02:47, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I feel JediRogue has a good point here, a Naruto fan will come across any name similar to a name in Naruto and think "Oh, that might be a Naruto reference, I'd better add it". I happen to have read Karl Marx. Does that mean I should add a note to Karl stating that I believe him to be a Karl Marx reference? But they've both got beards! How could it not be! What about humble Bryan? Could he be the messiah?
 * It's a matter of perspective. Those who are avid Naruto fans will immediately think of Sasuke. Myself, I've watched some Naruto, but the thought that Sousuke could be a reference to Sasuke just never crossed my mind.~Nahka~ 03:56, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Briahn the Chosen is the mesiah ;p &mdash; Skuld 04:04, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No he's not, he's a very naughty boy. ~Nahka~ 04:29, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Besides the name similarity, they look similar and they both use fire. That seems like enough connections to warrant a possible reference to me. And for anyone that says their personalities are too different: Lina is nothing like Lina Inverse except in name. (Though I suppose that could be a pun on how she's basically the opposite of her.) Capcom 18:15, 2 July 2007 (CDT)