User talk:Sefre/Build Wipe Petition

ugh
There has been a discussion. It's been discussed for months. It didn't get resolved. As such, wipe. –Ichigo724 10:59, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So your saying that for example a building needs a electric system replaced. And owners argue about what kind and the costs, other issues. So the best answer is to demolish it and rebuild? That seems to be the answer with build wipe--Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] 17:31, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Except, to follow your analogy, it would be like a building that hasn't been renovated in 150 years, has mold everywhere, exposed asbestos, crumbling supports, etc.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Yaaaay.png|19px]] 19:36, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Is not the build section functioning at this moment? It has flaws but no crumbling supports, it works in a non perfect state at the moment but that can be remedied by ways other then restarting...... Either way, this belongs on the build wipe page.--Sefre  [[Image:Sefresig.jpg|15px|]] 20:09, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Is the build section functioning now? No. It's failing now, and it has been failing for quite a while. When it started failing, Tanaric made the build: namespace, so when it got to an intolerable level of failure, he/they could simply remove it. People got the wrong idea, started making stuff up like "omg the build section exists bcos its so popular!11!" and missed the entire point of the section. Now that we're carrying the original plan out, people are reacting poorly because they never understood the original plan. Now, whining about it is just a waste of time, and is definitely not helping anything. If you want the build section, you're going to have to work for it; help create the new policy (effective, working policy) and you'll have a build section. If people just whine... it'll never get done. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 21:26, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Talk of other ways have been in discussion for months. Every single attempt has fizzled out.  Even the currently discussed alternate build section methodologies (GW:NOB and GW:PNB) were first proposed back in December, and those languished with no progress until the build wipe was announced.   While a build wipe can be considered rather draconian, it seems to have been the only thing that has managed to result in progress on any changes to the hopelessly flawed system in place now.  Actions such as this page do more to delay progress on those alternatives and preserve the status quo rather than actually fixing anything.  Ideally, I would like to see some method in place before the wipe - but the fact is that with the current method in place, none of the proposed fixes have made any progress.  The threat of removal has finally accomplished what has been otherwise impossible to achieve; namely: progress on defining a new builds documentation process.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:30, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

It's Over
While I personally might not have made the decision to wipe the builds had I the power to do so, the fact is that continuing discussion isn't going to help us at this point. When you have a hung jury (i.e. no decision can be reached and you have reached an unsolvable impasse), you declare a mistrial. Of course, the case can be tried a second time, but, you wipe the slate clean (i.e. you expunge the first trial). Same thing with the build section. The wiki community has voted, and the jury has returned. The verdict is hung jury. As unlikely as it seems, the Builds wipe is actually the only way we are ever going to get new, hopefully better policies to preside over the build section.

Regardless though, while, as I said, I might not have chosen to wipe the build section, the fact is that it is coming. If I thought that this petition could actually accomplish something constructive, I would whole-heartedly support it, but, the fact is that at a certain point, something has to be done, and, at a certain point, when the jury (i.e. the community) can't reach a verdict, the judge (Tanaric) declares the mistrial. It's done. To continue with the legal analogies, this is like asking for a stay of execution for the death row inmate even though everyone knows his Habeus Corpus Appeal isn't going to succeed. The focus should be on rehabilitation (i.e. working on making policies for the new build section work), not trying to save the condemned build section which is so obviously "guilty."

I have said it too many times at this point. I love builds. I love the build section. But this isn't helping anyone. The decision was made. Regardless of how you feel about it, the logic is sound. We may not like it, but we should be proactive, we shouldn't just be whining about it. I have yet to here a suggestion by anyone here as to a viable plan for the build section. What is worth keeping is being saved in archives, and what is worth putting back on will be (except original builds). If the system works, don't change it. Unfortunately, our system doesn't work. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  22:27, 3 April 2007 (CDT)