Talk:Dzagonur Bastion (mission)

So if we chose Margrid can we get this after we wrap up? :b --CKaz 23:54, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Yes. You can enter the mission after you finish the campaign and recruit Master of Whispers in the postgame area. I've also heard that it's possible to do the mission earlier if another party member has Master of Whispers. -- Gordon Ecker 23:49, 26 November 2006 (CST)

Just as a note, I had Margrid, for me to enter this mission I had to complete Greed and Regret before it would allow me to do Dzagonur Bastion (mission) Sax Dakota 21:12, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Y'know, I thought there was something wrong about that, but I couldn't figure it out. I'll fix both this and Dasha Vestibule now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 22:10, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Master's
I completely rewrote the walkthrough and bonus on October 27, 2007, as what was there before was pretty useless. Comments posted before this which refer to the walkthrough or bonus on the main page are thus obsolete. I've gotten master's reward with no defenses lost ten consecutive times (once with a character of each class) with the strategy I posted, and eight of those were with just henchmen and heroes. --Quizzical October 27, 2007


 * I think you have an error in here when you say to put the heroes -east- of the east bombard - that places them in between the bombard and the elementalist whereas the other NPCs are on the west side of the bombard.--Arcady 06:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It's kind of northeastish. The east bombard will be closer to the center bombard than the whispers groups are to the center bombard.  Regardless, just flag the heroes where the whispers groups stand when they're out of combat and done moving.  Putting them to the west of the east bombard doesn't work, as the whispers groups get slaughtered without support from the heroes, and two heroes can't hold the bombard on their own without the whispers groups.  If any incoming mobs get attacked by the heroes and the NPCs at the same time, you've got it right.  Quizzical 10:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Who wrote the tip for master's reward? it doesn't work. I sent 2 to the east, 1 to the centre like it said. Everything is fine until the generals appear. Then I kill the west general and all the enemies near and the general next to the west general, and about this time the east bombard falls. I am nowhere near it and can't help, and apparently the 2 Whispers can't either. I will try some different strategies now since the one listed here doesn't work. --Carth 17:47, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * Five hours after I started it's done. I sent a minion master hero to the east. After both teams of whispers were dead, he held it by himself for a long time, before finally dying just as I arrived. :) I have of course just realised that you only need 5 intact for master's. That is very easy to do and I can't believe I spent so long getting all 6. --Carth 19:30, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * Yes, you're right, after following the article to get Master's and failing quite a few times, I decided to do it the opposite way and defend the East first. The Elementalist general has to go down first, because if don't kill him early, he's going to come down with the rest of the Margonites and just absolutely lay waste to to the Whisper squads.  This would leave the Warrior general, who deals decent damage, on the far west last, but he doesn't come close to the damage output that the Elementalist general has.  Kill the Eastern elementalist general, mop up, and move on to the Paragon general.  You can even skip the Monk general and kill the Warrior general first.  But if you let the Elementalist general come towards the castle with his troops and you're not there, you're definitely going to lose at least the bombard if not the gate too.  --waywrong 01:06, 1 December 2006 (CST)


 * That's funny, I had exactly the opposite results with my Mesmer. Tried over and over again to take the Elementalist first, and got TPK after TPK.  Then I decided to post my heroes on the East bombard, while I covered West.  When the generals showed up, I pounced on the Monk boss (middle-west).  The asymmetrical map puts the Warrior boss very close to the bombard, which meant I could cover his reinforcements while taking out the two western bosses.  I then regrouped with my heroes (letting them heal and recharge a bit) before taking out the Paragon.  Finally, with three rifts closed, I de-flagged my heroes and took out the elementalist boss with a full party.  Kept all six defenses, and beat the mission in under half an hour. Auntmousie 02:43, 1 February 2007 (CST)

When the generals showed up for me, I immediately sent my minion master hero to the west to help guard it, while I and the rest of the party went east and attacked the eastern general. Once he was dead, I sent the minion master to help defend the center while I and the rest of the party went to the west to kill that general. Jarus 06:09, 27 November 2006 (CST)

I tried camping the gates and waiting for the generals to come down on their own, but they never moved. Then I ran up and pulled their escorts down to my group and killed the escorts easily, and then I could leave more henchies at the gates. Pulling the margonites away from their healer also helped. On the other hand, most of the NPCs died because of how long I was camping.

I just hit masters easily, I went the opposite to the guide. 2 groups to the west, 1 to the center and my team taking the east. I ran around as said, once the generals appeared. Took down the east general and then cleared his men out, ran over and provided help to the center. Then went for the monk general, again running back to provide help for the center, then the west general, during this I sent my MM hero to the center. After clearing all the west, my entire team went for the Paragon general, and we didn't lose a single defense. Taeliesyn 20:45, 2 December 2006 (CST)

I have gotten masters several times also by going the east gate first (all heroes/hench) - the first time I did this I was not trying for masters, just to complete the mission. I send all the groups to the center (west may work, never tried - it would at least be less running) and killing all the incoming groups off until the generals come. I then kill the east most general (nothing else - no underlings) and run to the west gate. By then there is one general attacking there, I kill him (note: I usually loose one bombard - still masters though). I kill all his underlings as they will continue to assualt the gates. I then go through and kill the general *only* from west to east. I've never had problems once I did this, at least the in game text says the gates are closed, I never see any other generals or general's groups attack, all the defenders on one gate can defend it well, and once all the generals are dead mission ends. Strcpy 04:40, 3 December 2006 (CST)

After two failed PUG runs, I read this and built a hero hench team with my assassin, a MM hero, SS hero, Dunk (heal), Khim, Odurra, Devona and Herta. Sent two groups west, one center, and took the other with my team. Killed groups in east and center, concentrating on margonites and letting whispers/minions mop up the kournans. Ganked ele boss when he came out, then sent both necros to center and finished cleaning up the east. Ran across to west, brought both necros and ganked war boss. Then slowed down, taking my time with the monk and finally the paragon. Whenever a bombard was threatened, I'd break off and go kill the guys around it unless a boss was close to death half. Never lost anyone (although I got close once with the war by getting too far ahead) and got masters(protected all 6 as well). I really think the master's tips should be changed to go after east first -- with that ele boss hitting for 400+, I don't think you can afford to leave him alone.--Dfscott 15:54, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * I'm in agreement here. I did it similarly, as a dervish with MM, Bond/Prot, and nuker heroes, and Eve, Cynn, Mhenlo, and Sogolon for henchies.  Took the east, killed the generals Ele-War-Monk-Par.  They threatened the Western Bombard *once*, and none of my party died.  Master's with all 6 defenses left.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 16:27, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * Similar here. I just now did this with my warrior, D/W dervish, MM, SF ele, cynn, holy hench, motivation hench & healer.  (Just realized... only one healer) - I took out the worst of each group, rushed the elementalist, ctrl-attacked to focus fire on him (he had no healers) - once I took him out, I sprinted to the other side of the map to take out the enemies on the opposite side.  After that, it's no pressure to guard your shrines, because you can keep an eye on both. Craw 20:26, 7 December 2006 (CST)


 * After failing my first attempt with my Warrior (lost west bombard, west gate, then the citadel), I took exactly the same heros and hench that Dfscott took (LoD, MM, and SS), then sent 2 groups to west, one to center, and with my group all over. A lot of running from east to west (mostly east and center), but all in all it was an easy victory with 5 def left for masters reward (lost east bombard).  I kept my Necro heros with me, and a side benefit was the MM would leave death nova minions all over the map as we ran back and forth.  Kill the Margonites, let the NPCs and straggler minions take out the rest.  I am not sure how much the earth hench helped, as his wards were always put up just after what I was attacking was dead.  None the less, this strategy worked like a charm.  Queen Schmuck 18:00, 19 December 2006 (CST)

I played this through 4 times, even though oddly enough I got Masters on my very first attempt despite not knowing what I was doing yet (it was very chaotic, but somehow effective). The second time I lost :) The third time was 4/6, fourth 5/6 successful. I'd say it's very hard not to lose at least one bombard. Which is probably why they 5/6 is good enough for Masters.  I'm still not sure what the best approach is.  I had the most success by putting one group of Whispers at EACH location - they seem to do a pretty good job holding out just long enough for you to arrive.  If you leave one spot open it forces you to watch it like a hawk or lose it quickly.  Having Whispers at all 3 lets you move around much more.  If you lose a bombard, that enemies that took it immediately assault the associated gate and you better run to kill 'em fast.  This makes it much more difficult to cover the field, 'cause the bridges are quite long.  So try to hold all 3 bombards as long as possible.  The best deal I think is to stand just ahead of the central bombard and watch the radar as well as panning around with the CTRL looking for incoming red guys. You can generally take them down quick and return to the middle to go after the next batch. Once the generals show up, they'll send guys to attack from the wide flanks and it really takes you out of position to take them down. Therefore I think ranged characters are much better here than melee characters. I switched out my 2 warriors for 2 rangers for the last attempt, seemed to do the trick. Watch the blue zone-under-attack indicators to warn you about which spot is being attacked and try to get there ASAP. I was able to stop everything they sent down and eventually started killing them one at at time during lulls in their assaults, without any special strategy. My guys often seemed to have trouble staying with me and got hung up trying to kill some single guy along the way while I was trying to get them to do more important things (even using target calling). Party-wide running buffs would REALLY help here, too, although I didn't use them. Stance-breaking skills would really help too, as the attackers use a ton of archers with Whirling Defense stance that tends to stall your entire attack for a really long time when you should be getting elsewhere. I didn't use any Minion Masters - did't have any made! P/W build with attack-based skills. Perko 9:40, 24 January 2007 (CST)

~I found sending 2 groups to the elementalist side, 1 to the center and the rest of the team to the warrior side works well. After sending the groups to their side, proceed with killing of the initial weak waves of mobs, all the while trying to make sure you are as close to the warrior boss as can be when the generals do come. As soon as they spawn, focus fire on the warrior general, as soon as he is finished retreat to the bombard until all of his reinforcements are dead(the kournan, the margonites are not important)(to force the npc's from fighting, flag them near the bombard when you are ready to retreat).

After that group is finished, make a quick run up to the monk general, focus fire on him, and once he's finished retreat again to the bombard that the warrior general was near.

At this point there should no need to worry about the bombard the warrior general was at, so quickly go to the elementalist side where the last of the whispers should be dying. In my experience, only kournan rangers come from the elementalist, so as soon as they get in bombard range, make a run for the elementalist and dispose of him as quickly as possible. Now you can finish off his troupe, as well as any kournan that are left, or you can hang out by the bombard until you are recharged.

Maybe a note that should've been mentioned is that there is another group that should be alive protecting the center bombard, this group combined with the whisper group is pretty effective at holding off the kouran reinforcements. Anyway, after the ele general is dead the only one left is the paragon general, which you can easily go in and finish, with all 6 defenses intact. team used:Dervish(me),zhed, souske(both with searing flames, liquid flames, and other fire dmg),master of whispers(BiP usually, but before i had that, he just used various hexes, no MM or SS here), mhenlo, khim, cynn, and any other ranged npc, illusionist or archer normally)

Master (Normal mode) Heroes/Henches Way (for monks)!
April 2008: The team: Master of Whisper (MM with explosive minions & Dark Bond + healing breeze), Acolyte Jin (with degen conditions & interrupts + broad head arrows), Acolyte Sosouke (classic SF nuker), Kim, Herta (of whatever name of the earth hench there), Eve (or whatever name of blood hench there), last one was more to fill team (I used Paragon). My monk's build (HB, HP, DK & PS as key skills). The strategy: Simply follow recommandations for master in the article page but place ONLY your MM east side (he died twice during mission but with Dark bond, never left uncontrolled minions). With heal party you should be able to heal MoW even if you are far away. Once kournans near vortex are wiped, go directly for the boss (no need to kill margonite around as the y won't follow or move). If MoW is taken down, first clear any kournans moving to defense (or already attacking 'em) then go rez him (NB. should only happen when you are away to kill the 2nd and 3rd margonite boss). For last boss, unflag MoW to speed up process (as ever taking first kournan by pulling them then directly take down boss w/o caring of other margonite). The conclusion: succeeded at the first try, without special problems (has it became easier ?!)

Warrior Side First Tactic
I've done this mission with two characters. Both took 3 tries to get masters (alone with heroes/henchmen). First masters was 5 points saved, second was all 6. I originally stumbled through the mission, then read this wiki. But I never succeeded with the general consensus advice of taking the elementalist general out first. Here are some tips based on the experience: Anyways... that's what worked for me. I just hope one of those tips are useful. --Mooseyfate 23:26, 7 March 2007 (CST)
 * Take the warrior general out first. Both W and E teams seem to dominate their bombardments pretty well, but the elementalists team takes me longer to take out.  I suspect this is because of greater Kournan support when my natural attack timing occurs (pretty quickly after the generals spawn).  Or maybe it's the shorter distance to the W rift.  It could just be luck or play style, but it works for me.
 * Take the opposite side (elementalist) out second. Not because of the damage he does, but so to better concentrate the remaining attackers.
 * Remember, one bombardment can fall. Plan which one you want to let fall ahead of time (I suggest the E bombardment)
 * Kill priests first. More so the Kournans, as they don't use Spell Breaker.  This is a duh, but (especially on this map) they can require more overextending than I typically like.
 * Bring the enemy to you. Flag your troops to an area to attack something, but loop around and catch groups running to adjacent bombardments.  There are many groups, but they are all small, so don't be afraid to take on more than one at a time.  I did this just fine with a survivor character.
 * Send the NPC groups to whatever bombardments fits your strategy. I like one to each bombardment.  This is an effective way to buy yourself time, but not to save any bombardments.
 * If you have a minion master to compliment an NPC group, know that it won't live forever, just act as a stall. Don't worry if this character dies, but do start heading over for support once this happens.  His dead minions should continue to stall the enemy for a bit.  If you don't have a minion master (which I think is fine), send a ranger.  Rangers are good at helping stall the enemy and staying alive (sometimes even without self heals).  But the most important thing about this character is how their life meter will be a good gage as to the situation on the opposite side of the map.
 * Bring Devona. Charge is very nice here.
 * Bring Mhenlo. He does a good enough job, and just a couple hard resurrects should be enough to keep your team up.  Killing speed is more important than healing.  Just have your heroes carry a self heal.  If you are a monk, you may spend too much time commanding and running around to be a successful healer, so consider going all or part smite.
 * Suggested: Chilblains or Avatar of Grenth type enchantment removal. I didn't bring either, but the enemies use of Spell Breaker can slow you down if you have good caster damage.
 * Bring an offensive spirit summoner. Assuming you don't have a Rt hero at this point, an expertise/channeling/communing R/Rt worked well for me.  As you move around the battlefield, old abandoned spirits serve to slow remote attackers.  Don't worry about manually controlling where spirits are placed.
 * Bring a minion master if you want. Personally, I feel the minion master is an annoying crutch too many lean on in PvE (and too unpopular for most PvP).  But there are certainly many corpses here.


 * Did it like you said, Mooseyfate. One group of NPCs to each bombardment, first the Warrior, then the Elementalist, Monk, and finally the Paragon. Worked perfectly! Got Master's with all 6 defenses still intact.
 * Thanks a lot for the tips! --Kemar 11:46, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I sent 2 groups to the west with Master as MM, 1 group to the center. I stationed the rest of my party (myself as blood necro, 2 SF elementalists, Devona, Mehnlo, Khim, and Geheraz) between the east and center control points, closer to the east.  I left my troops stationed there and tried to pull in as many groups as possible, letting the whispers groups take care of any stragglers.  When the generals appeared, I took them out in this order: elementalist, monk, paragon, warrior.  I wanted to do the elementalist first because he owned me with a previous build that I tried, so I thought I would get it over with.  Otherwise, Master was holding the advances from the warrior group just fine, so whenever I was attacked by a Kournan wave, I attacked the boss at the portal they came from next.  All the bosses went down pretty easily, and I only had to run and resurrect Master once, during the initial phase where he was building up minions.Xylia 00:08, 25 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Xylia's build worked out very well - the only minor change was that I was one of the sf eles, and that instead of a blood nec I had a monk that was half blood (for blood ritual). I went ele-para-war-monk. Got 6/6 success on the first time I ran it. ^_^ --Myrrinth 05:39, 5 May 2007 (CDT)

I know this is late but i need to know Dr ishmaels dervish build that he mentioned on 5th december last year 212.74.96.200 14:19, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * o.O Durr.... It's been 6 months, I've gone through a lot of dervish builds since then - sorry, but I don't remember what I was using at the time. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:55, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

hmm i send all the whispers groups to the west and they can hold the west side with ease. i holded the east and centre and started with killing the elementalist boss. i did this in hard mode got masters with 6 defenses intact it wasn't that hard. i had a broad head arrow ranger two hench monks a hench paragon hench warrior minion master hero and curses hero and a earth elementalist. it didn't turn out to be very hard.

Did it just like Mooseyfate said on my Paragon. Masters, all 6 intact, piece of cake. Thanks a lot for the tip. --NYC Elite 19:46, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

I was getting frustrated following these tips without success. That's until I found out something that no one has mentioned thus far. There is a first wave of attackers consisting of 5-6 groups of 1 margonite and 3 Kournan. This occurs before the bosses spawn. The final 2 groups of this first wave consists of a Margonite Executioner for 1 group and a Warlock for the other group. These 2 final groups converge on the center. What I figured out was to leave 2 Kournans alive from these groups. The 3 Vabbi guards that are situated there will slowly but surely take care of these two. Then I ran over to the eastern most point and waited for the elementalist boss to spawn. Once he spawned, we began pounding him silly. Then we just traveled westward taking out the bosses. This was done with Acolyte Sousuke and Zhed as searing flames spammers and MoW as minion master. Got master's without a problem.

Man, i just owned this mission completely randomly. I had this nooby dervish with Ava of Bal with me, He had Koss, Dunkoro, and MoW, MoW was a somewat MM, and the other 2, I have no clue, but eliteless. I had MoW MM, LoD Dunkoro, and Melonni w/ Avatar of Mel. Okay... I sent all the Whisper guys to gaurd the east gate, and me and the guy went to clear the center. We did that, and killed a few, then bosses spawned. We went from warrior to elementalist. While we were killing ele, I noticed that over half of my whisper guys were still alive... This was easy as heck, was VERY fast, and had 4 defeses left. Got Experts. --User:Ramp Ager 9:32 June 2? (CDT)

Well, this sub-guide for monks is great. Worked like a charm I really appreciate it. lol. but for some really strange reason, the ele boss charged my h/h and I, thenafter he went down the warrior boss, then the monk boss, then we just rushed the paragon. idk if it was a bug, but it sure as hell convienient. but thenx again --209.158.88.196 22:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hard Mode
After trying Hard Mode several times with 1-3 MMs, trying Warrior first or Ele first we finally suceeded. We had been trying to use lots of MMs to help the Whispers groups or to help ourselves but we found we had a hard time dealing enough damage where it was needed since minions are brainless. Our old strategy that worked in Normal mode wasn't working in Hard Mode. We took too long and all the groups of Whispers would die off and it would go down hill fast. We knew we needed to be able to kill a lot faster. We have been using lots of pets in Hard Mode to supplement our group with more bodies to distribute damage and this tatic didn't change. What worked for us in hard mode was a lot of Ele's mostly using your typical Searing Flames build. Our build was basically 2 human and the rest heros (1 Human Ele, 1 Human Ranger, 3 Ele Heros, 2 Monk Heroes, one MM Hero, 7 pets). The basic thought was kill fast or be killed; good defense through great offense. We sent 2 Whispers groups West and one Center. We helped out with the initial Kournan groups mostly on the East and Center. Right before clearing the last group we headed for the Ele General and as soon as he spawned we hit him hard Searing Flames, Liquid Flames, GlyphSac Meteor Shower and he dropped quick. Then we ran away heading south and around to the Warrior General. This took a few tries as our monks or some eles would get killed trying to run away but with some luck on one run we managed to get away with only a dead pet. Then we used a similar tactic on the Warrior General though he took much longer to take down. Then we cleared most of his group for fear of being wiped trying to run away. It got a lot easier at this point. Then we snagged a spawn group from the center before they headed for the whispers groups and once we cleared them headed for the Monk General. Once he was down we just rushed the Paragon General and it was over. 6 of 6 defenses still standing. I don't know if this is the best tactic but with a lot of luck it worked for us. We must have tried a dozen times on our previous builds this build took about 3 tries. Having completed Tyria and Cantha and most of Elona in Hard Mode this mission took us more tries than any thus far and was certainly the most frustrating.--User:Brigatta 11:02, 14 June 2007 (MST)

It can be done easily by any group suitable for hardmode all you do is send all 3 groups of whispers to the east. Wipe the monk group as soon as they spawn (you should be standing right by the spawn). Fall back to the west bombard and kill the mobs for a little bit and pull anything going towards the center when the monks mob is fully wiped kill the warrior boss and full wipe his mob as well. Move on to the paragon take out all his guys and then the ele the bombardments are in next to no danger you should easily be able to pull and defend the center and west groups while the 3 groups of whispers hold off whats coming toward them for almost all of the mission. Very safe and reliable way of completing the mission with 6/6 things intact.75.37.17.169 19:35, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

I sent all to the east. I killed the warrior boss first and some of his people, then fell back to the center to clean up after the monk and paragon bosses who'd been sending enemies to there. Then, I took out the monk while pulling any enemies who went toward the center to me. Once the monk was dead, I killed the paragon boss and his buddies and then fell back to the east to support my allies. Once we were in a comfortable position, we went in for the kill and took out the ele boss with ease. My group was as follows: Me (Mo/Me Boon/Prot), Goren (W/N Flesh Golem Tank), Olias (MM with Flesh Golem), Master of Whispers (SS), Mhenlo, Kihm, Gehraz, Devona. I didn't lose a single defense the whole time, but you can sacrifice the west side if need be after killing the warrior boss. Your minions will stay there when you run to the center, so they will be delayed for quite a while even if there are a few left. As it turned out, I left only one of the warrior's underlings over there and he was with the warrior boss, so he doesn't move to capture. Hebe 15:23, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

Mastered HM with only my friend and 6 heroes and it was fairly easy on the 3rd try. 1st group: SV necro with Necrosis (me), Tahlkora as LoD healer with Holy Haste, fire elementalist hero and Master of Whispers as MM with optional BR function. 2nd group: same 3 heroes and player as Me/E fire nuker. 2 groups were sent to Ele boss spawn, 1 to War boss. I defended the monk/war side and my friend was on ele/para side. Monk boss went down first, then war boss. killed para boss while dealing with ele boss mobs, then (damn, it was hard) took on the ele. The best way is to send a lot of minions on boss since his Invoke Lightning spike does horrifying damage to party without prot monks. During mission a wipe of one group is very possible, so immediate assistance of another group member might be required - let minions do the job and go res. Signing in: fR0z3n.S0u1 07:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Used a prety standard build and an invinci monk (or 600hp or whatever) to defend the centre two gates. The whispers groups could easily defend the east side and I could easily kill everything else with my group. Basic idea would be to have a tank (and possibly a healer) defend the centre and the whisper groups the east and then I found it was a very easy mission Shai Meliamne 00:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Managed to do this in Hard Mode with following setup:

3 P/W, 1 N/Rt Restoration healer, 1 Mark Of Pain/Assassin's Promise N/A [human], 1 Save Yourselves/OrderOfPain/DarkFury/Flurry N/W [human], 1 N/Mo minion bomber, 1 N/Mo ProtMonk with ShieldOfRegen.

Basically: Confront all groups coming at you, kill quick. When bosses spawn, start with W boss and quickly wipe all the bosses without trying to defend the gates - Focus on fast damage.

This got Masters. -Moloch

Hi there. I tried this mission too many times in HM, trying 2 East Tower, 1 Center Tower Disciples groups with various party builds and I failed every time. The best I did was to kill either the Warrior or the Monk Boss and then fail the mission because I was overtaken by the foes in the centger of the defend area. Then I decided to change to 2 West Tower, 1 Center Tower Disciples groups and within two tries I did the Masters, with not too much trouble. So I strongly suggest people going this way. Why I suggest going this way ? Because : a) The west point has less first-wave foes (1 group) to deal with and it is easier for the NPCs to defend. b) The Center point has 3 extra NPCs in front of it that are great at slowing down first-wave foes going for the center point. In fact my center Tower Disciples group didn't fight any first-wave foes group, ever. c) There are three first-wave groups coming from the East that can take down any amount of NPCs. So my Masters run went (more or less) like this... I defended the East point while in the time between first-wave groups I helped the center and west Tower. So far it was really really easy. As soon as the Bosses spawn, I went for the Elementalist (East) whom I took down very quickly despite his high damage. I even stayed there and cleaned up the East point so no foes would follow me while leaving. Then I went across to the West Point. On the way I helped the center Tower with 2 kills and cleared the foes attacking the west Tower at the time. At that point I had to return to the center Tower to help with the 2 groups coming from the 2 center bosses. Then I went straight for the (west) Warrior boss ignoring any foes going to the west Tower. He also fell quickly enough. I then cleared most of the foes attacking the West Tower waiting to see the next wave of foes going to the center Tower. I went to the Center Tower and cleared them. At that point there were still 2 NPCs guarding it. Next, I went for the monk boss. This one took me a little longer but he fell. Once more I went back to the center to defend it once more against the 3 foes that had overtaken the guarding NPCs. For the last boss I was lazy enough to pull some of the foes down toward the center and take them out to weaken the Paragon party and then took him out. It really went very well and very easy with only one death of (ironically) Masters of Whispers. My party build was almost pity full and was like this. Me as an Ursan Warrior. Masters of Whispers using this [OANEQZxG21sUrC4hHhh7La36EA], Sousuke using this [OgNDkoysO0tm2YtICLAG4iYC] and manually handling meteor shower and ward against melle. Tahlkora using this [OwUUMm26Q4SaEZEbERg4V7DmAxEA] and then Herta, Cynn, Kihm, Mhenlo. The whole party fought together. I never flagged anyone, anywhere. Having in mind that I'm not the most experienced PvE player, I hope this will help people with their HM Masters of this mission. Ne33us 00:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think of this mission as very hard. I went Sabway yesterday, with me as a promise nuker (I sucked, btw). Sent all Whispers to the East gate, and simply took the bosses one after another. Altough I should say that I have rank 8 lightbringer. In any case Spiteful Spirit and Pain Inverter could manage the bosses in seconds. 6/6 first try :). -- 00:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well yes, a lot of games are easy if you use cheat codes. What happens if you avoid the use of GWEN pve-only skills?  Quizzical 01:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * To be frank, I forgot my Pain Inverter, It would have helped tremendously though. Also I forgot to place points in Deadly Arts so I was basically a nuker without promise. Notice I said that SS and PI "could" manage. :P --[[Image:OrgXSignature.jpg]] 15:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * GWEN PVE-only skills are not cheat codes. This is a PVE mission, and ANET intended that the PVE skills be usable here, whether you like it or not.  To say that he is cheating is an unnecessary attack upon his integrity.  It is the height of arrogance and inconsideration, and does not say much for you. If you were half the professional that you feel you are, you would not need to attack others just to make yourself feel better. 217.234.223.43 21:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Just completed this in HM using the 3 Necro team build (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Triple_Necro_Vanquish)and hench. Worked awesomely, all generals went down fast. - Zeekyafreak


 * Cheat codes aren't the moral equivalent of hacking the game (which would get you banned if caught). Yes, ArenaNet put them into the game with the intent that players could use them--if they're stuck on something and want to essentially skip it but still get credit.  Going around to a mission saying, using ursan makes it easy, doesn't really say anything, as ursanway makes essentially everything easy.  Quizzical 22:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Too many enemies
Is there a bug in this? I've tried to get masters on this 10 times following what you all have written and we've been creamed every time. My alliance and I are wondering if there is a bug in the mission. Anyone else have problems with it lately? Morgan Fairweather 15:17, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Masters, yes it is possible
I did this with 2 human players and 6 heros. Olias and Master of whispers, both set to MM. Each player brought a dunkoro and one of us brought Tahlkora. Koss was the final hero. We sent 2 groups of Whispers to the east, along with Olias and Dunkoro. The rest of us went to the West. We killed the Warrior, then the Monk, then the Paragon and finally the elementalist. We found the Monk the most difficult to kill.

Olias, Dunkoro and the 2 teams of whispers managed fine on their own, Olias only died once, but Dunkoro resed him quickly. Killing the Generals was slightly slower than you'd like, but we sacrificed some fire power for more defence, as previous attempts show that most mobs are big hitters. Thats why we had 3 monks. Me and the other human player were both nuking elementalists.

We found the best tactic was to work towards each General, and then when you are at the mob that sticks with the general, tell your heroes to target the General itself, and kill it first. Then finish off the remaining mobs, which should be relatively easy. Also, against the elementalist general, we did "unflag" Olias and Dunkoro, and bring them with us, for the extra healing. It is also wise to spread out slightly to help combat AoE spells.

We did it with 6/6 defences remaining.212.69.62.66 10:56, 9 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Masters is also possible with just one Human player and the rest as Hench. I sent two groups of Disciples to the East gate and one to the Center. I flagged Master of Whispers (MM) to the Center. The rest of my party (Goren and Koss as Damage Warriors, Mhenlo, Kihm, Cynn, Herta) took the West gate. After the first initial wave, me and the hench rushed the Easternmost General, the Ele, and took him down quick. This way, the Disciples in the East would not be continually bombarded with reinforcement enemies. Then, I rushed back to the West gate, cleared the attacking Margonites, and took out the Westernmost General too. Meanwhile, Master of Whispers and the Minions were holding the Center just fine. I unflagged him and the whole party rushed the center Generals. 6/6 Defenses left intact. Took a whole lot of running around and micromanagement, but was worth it.
 * Good tip of advice: If you're going to flag Hench alone on a gate, make sure it's right next to the Bombard! I tried flagging them well ahead, to stop enemy advances, but that failed miserably since the enemies seem to just run right past you... >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:14, 11 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Just did Master's without difficulty by following the instructions on the article, although I used a monk instead of a rit. 70.52.14.178 21:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * West Gate is Ele -_-'--71.227.142.108 02:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

HARD MODE WITH A 55hp monk
Sent the 55hp monk (real player) to the left defense point (be sure that the 55hp monk is not in range of the bombard otherwise the enemies slowly take it over), and send all the whispers to the center defense point, in the first stages pay attention to the right defense point because this one is undefended. After the generals spawn, take down the warrior general first.

After that recharge and clear area of enemies, and take down another general. Take your time the 55hp can easily withstand a lot of punishment/beating.

Have fun, you can do it. May the force be with you.

Hypno Dries


 * You forgot the necros... I tried this method. Its perfect, until you encounter a necro. Necros remove the enchants on the 55hp = gg. - mindattack 15:12, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

The left side doenst have necro's only warriors and monks, it there are necro's he pulled someone from the center groups. At least the 55hp gives more time on the left side, so you can kill the warrior general. The whispers can hold the center for a very long time. BTW This can be done also by other tank builds, like the obsidian flesh ele. As long as he can sustain his self.
 * I personally tanked on the left side, i saw necros spawn there. So necros spawn on the left side. Anyway this can be tanked with a 55HP and a Famine ranger. - mindattack 07:35, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

The bonus strategy that works
is the one that was posted before the most recent edit deleted it. Just to make sure that it still worked, I tried two more times today with just henchmen and heroes, and it worked as well as ever both times. The second time, just to see how long Master of Whispers and Razah could hold out, after killing the first three bosses, I left to eat dinner and kept the rest of my party (meaning except for Master of Whispers and Razah) near the edge of radar range away from the action, so that those two heroes had only the whispers groups for help. They had to hold out more than half an hour, not counting the time it took to kill the first three bosses, and had no problem with it. Six of the Vabbi Guards were dead after that, as were two of the margonites that accompany the final boss. I had no problem then finishing the mission with master's reward with 6/6 defenses saved after returning. In contrast, I have no idea how to get the whispers groups and only two heroes to hold two bombards essentially forever like that, and the strategy posted today doesn't provide any clues. Is there any reason not to revert the main article to the previous bonus strategy that reliably worked, not just maybe sometimes if you get lucky? Quizzical 02:19, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * See My response. You are confused. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * IMO the only real difference between the current strategy and the previous one is whether you have the MM, Rit and Whispers groups defend 2 bombards, or just 1. The key point with both strategies is that you concentrate your NPCs so they have a significant chance of holding out long enough, while you kill off the bosses. Which bombard(s) you assign the NPCs to doesn't matter that much.
 * Both strategies work. I just got master's last night by assigning the NPCs to defend the west and center bombards (the walkthrough says to defend the east and center ones, but the principle remains the same) while I killed the eastern boss. Then I went back and did the rest. I had to hurry, since by the time I got to the west bombard both MoW and Xandra were dead, but the point remains that I got the master's. That the NPCs failed to survive indefinitely is of lesser importance. -- 166.120.202.205 04:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, what kind of defensive strategy involves putting your bombards OUTSIDE your walls? Those wacky Vabbians. -- 166.120.202.205 04:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I brought back my strategy, and mentioned Entropy's approach as a variant on it. More importantly, I've brought back the critical details needed for the strategy to work that were present in my original write-up and missing from Entropy's.  Quizzical 08:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

When lacking in power I decided to dispatch MoW from the eastern group and let him come along with me, Xandra and the NPC's were doing fine for the rest of the mission, looks like in my case MoW wasn't really needed on that side. --Leviathan 22:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks much for the rewrite
Worked for me after a few tries cause I kept forgetting to retreat to bastions. Used M/Rt for rit skills. One thing that messed with me was flag for other heroes/henches, cause once I had to flag them once, I had to keep using flag to avoid cancelling flags for the rit and MoW. So one word of advice would be to stay away from the party flag
 * You know hero flags override party flags, right? --Shadowcrest 01:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That's not the issue. The problem he alluded to that you can't cancel the party flag without losing your hero flags, too, and it's a pain to replace hero flags.  Once you plant a party flag once, you have to plant it every single time you want the party to move, which is a major nuisance.  I tend not to use the party flag at all in this mission for precisely that reason.  Quizzical 01:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not true, Quizzical. You can plant hero flags, use the party flag to command henchies and then cancel the party flag by double clicking the button for it, which keeps the hero flags upstanding. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  02:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You can also just click the party flag again and move it without canceling the other flags, if you just need to move them. What bigrat said is also true. --Shadowcrest 02:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't know you could cancel single flags that way. Somehow I missed that in reading the manuals for all three campaigns plus GWEN and the wiki pages for heroes and henchmen.  It's good to know, so thanks.  This is kind of like learning that vendors will pay more for a junk item after you use an ID kit on it than before, after already playing the game for several months.


 * If that already has a solution, then how about the other nuisance UI "features": is there a way to set henchmen (not heroes) to "guard" rather than "fight", or a way to turn off the "you really should be grinding rank instead of trying to do something more interesting" spam of 5n mobs kiled in GWEN?  Quizzical 02:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

A strategy that has been reliable for me
Party: Human player (any class, completed with ranger (BHA), ritualist (Ritual Lord), warrior (evicerate axe), Elementalist (fire), I assume any human will be fine), Necro MM, Necro SS, Necro Rit healer, Mhenlo, Khim, last 2 heroes of choice to compliment (Herta and Gehraz are usually fine). Send ALL the whispers to the west bombard (the one that defends against the warrior boss). Player party defends the other two positions, but favours the centre bombard. IGNORE the groups attacking the east bombard, but don't allow them to get too large. Allow them to cap it, to draw the elementalist boss forward. Exterminate the boss and his groups. Maintain protection of the middle bombard. Once there are no enemies attacking from the east, the centre position is easier to defend, and you can press an advance and take out the paragon and monk bosses. The whispers NPCs will hold the warrior group off for a long time, giving you plenty of time to beat the middle bosses. Mop up any kournans and proceed to beat the warrior boss and his group. This strategic surrender of the elementalist bombard allows you to better concentrate your efforts in the middle. Simple game theory. Haven't tested in hard mode, but will give it a go soon. Metasynaptic 14:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Cinematics Dialogue
I am not sure if this should really go here but- why don't the nightfall missions have all the cutscene dialogue typed out? The factions ones do. Is it just that no one has actually bothered to type it all out? --Bastthegatekeeper 02:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I realized that this was not the best place for this comment, so i put it on the Nightfall Missions talk page. --Bastthegatekeeper 02:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

They make attaining Master's sound so complicated...
All this protecting, running around, needing certain heroes... I got Master's last night with a dervish, warrior, two generic monks, minion and SS necros, paragon and air elementalist (pretty generic team with a few "non-optimal" builds too). After sending the acolytes to the east and taking out the first waves, we just blitzed the bosses, warrior first then around. Maybe 1-2 minutes per boss (including travel), didn't even pay attention to the bombards. We might've lost one in the end but still got Master's in like 10 minutes. Granted, it was normal mode, but it's something to try if you're tired of trying to micro-manage every skill and position of everyone on the team.136.142.15.207 17:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have multiple players so that your party is all players and heroes, that can be quite a bit stronger party than just henchmen and heroes. The same applies even with henchmen/heroes if you use the usual cheats like ursan blessing or consumables.  In those cases, you might sometimes be able to get away with just running around haphazardly killing things and get master's reward that way.  With a henchmen/heroes party without such cheats, you may still be able to get master's reward that way, but it would take quite a bit of dumb luck for the whispers groups to hold out long enough, especially if your own class can't spike damage very well.
 * The point of the strategy I posted was that it reliably works for master's reward, regardless of the player's own class, and without relying on dumb luck for some whispers groups to hold out long enough. To push the limits and see how reliable the strategy was, I once tried killing three bosses, then going AFK for half an hour to see if the whispers groups could hold out.  They did, so in my strategy, you have essentially infinite time, as opposed to having to go very fast if you want the master's reward.  It is presumably not the only such strategy that works, but posting one reliable strategy is better than telling people to try random things and hope they get lucky.  Quizzical 18:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Hard mode section notes
The strategy I posted has worked the last nine times I tried it. Three of them were just henchmen/heroes, and none of them used any ursans or consumables. I did use the lightbringer title for help. I'm rank 4 lightbringer myself. Various people I grouped with ranged from rank 1 to rank 8.

I expect that people who try the strategy may have to try and fail a couple times to get the hang of where mobs go and when. It does work pretty well once you figure out what to do.

There are several reasons why putting the whispers groups at the center bombard is best. Two rifts spawn Kournans to attack the center bombard, while only one rift spawns Kournans to attack each of the edge bombards. The center rifts, however, spawn Kournans much more slowly, so it's likely about the same rate of Kournan attacks at all three bombards until generals die.

The thing that gets Whispers groups killed is mostly Kournan Bowmen staying back to fire from long range. The center area doesn't have the awkward terrain to hide behind, making it harder for them to do this.

Kournans attacking the side bombards come within firing range of that bombard only. Kournans attacking the center bombard come within range of both the center bombard and one of the side ones. This means that the whispers groups get more fire support from bombards if they are defending the center than one of the sides. This especially applies after you kill a general, so that the bombard on that side has nothing else to do but help out the whispers groups at the center.

Furthermore, to secure the center bombard yourself, you have to kill two generals. For the side ones, you only have to kill one. Having one bombard secure mere seconds after the generals spawn makes things much easier than if you had killed one of the central generals first. Having another bombard secure with only two generals dead, and the whispers able to hold the third, also helps.

If the Whispers groups are in the center, they are more able to help you out on the sides than if you were all the way on the other side. If you start to get overwhelmed at the east bombard, you can run to the center, drag some Kournans with you, and then the whispers groups will help you out and kill the Kournans. That wouldn't be an option if the whispers groups were all the way on the opposite side from you.

The skills I listed are chosen to take out the warrior and elementalist bosses quickly, as those are the hardest parts. You mostly let the warrior boss kill itself by attacking with various hexes on it. You have to supply the damage more directly for the elementalist boss. Other approaches that can spike single targets quickly can work, too. This one is quite doable with just henchmen and heroes, and no need for pve-only skills.

Regarding other popular builds, a minion master fares all right, if you've already got the key stuff taken care of. The main use of the minions is that they don't run away when the party does after killing a boss, which sometimes gets mobs to attack them instead of chasing you. That is, of course, if there are any minions still alive, as it may have been a while since you've killed anything before killing the boss.

A N/Rt fake ritualist healer is probably a bad idea. Even a real ritualist healer doesn't work so well, as the party constantly has to run around, often running away from any spirits that are set up. This both deprives you of the direct benefit of the spirits, and also means that any "while a spirit is within earshot" effects of other skills won't trigger.

Fire nukers also aren't such a good idea. Armor-respecting area damage is not a terribly effective way to spike single high-armor targets. Of course, fire nukers aren't such a good idea in most other hard mode missions, either, but they're worse than normal here. Quizzical 22:34, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Plants
I was trying to scout the area in mission, but when i went to the most left portal (with Doriah), plants were behind it! Maybe this needs a bit more research, and then put it on the monsters list. After all those were in mission too. IOmanHunterI 18:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)