Talk:Common scams

Archived discussion
/Archive 1 - all discussion through the end of 2008

Accounts younger then 24 hours can not trade?
Sorry for the maybe confusing title, but i hope you got the idea, It seems a anon added this to the article "Also, any new Guild Wars account has to be active for a period of 24 hours before they can trade, pick up any dropped items." Now from what i can guess, this would be aimed at goldsellers or people like that, however i have never heard of this "rule" before,The one thin i do know that Anet has done against goldsellers is that trail accounts ( which i believe aren't even given out anymore) have restrictions on them,so they can not trade,They can still pick up items and the items will still be on that account if the person buys the game and chooses to "upgrade" that account, but i have never heard of a 24 hour limit thing.So is this true,or what?Maybe someone hat just bought GW can confirm? PS. It seems this page is pretty big, as its warning me about that, maybe we should archive some post here?Ones discussing no longer doable scams are good candidates ( like 10G instead of 10K) Durga Dido 20:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I did hear something about that (only hearsay), but without the not-being-able-to-pick-up-stuff part. I think it was on the "official" (/rofl) wiki... King Neoterikos 21:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is true, I have experienced this myself on a new account I made a month ago. The reason is that gold sellers can buy legitimate accounts online with fake credit cards, and the 24 hour wait makes sure that Anet can find and cancel these accounts before they can do damage. --◄mendel► 05:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Im hoping only the part about not being able to trade is true and not the part about not being able to pick up stuff, because that would be stupid -_-. Durga Dido 16:56, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It prevents you from dropping items in explorable areas and picking up dropped items from other players. --JonTheMon 17:13, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Elaborating slightly on Jon's point, I believe you are unable to pick up unassigned drops - you can still pick up any loot that is assigned to you. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Does it seem like people are scamming less now?
It does to me. It seems like through most of the game's life, I saw people standing around in towns and running scams constantly. Often obvious ones like the Monastery Credit thing, and ones that don't don't fetch much gold at that, like selling parchment for 10g over what it costs to make with 5 wood and 20g. Is there a shortage of noobs at this late stage of the game's life to fall for these things? Or is it more likely that lame scammers are moving on to troll other virtual worlds? Or neither, I've just become blind to it?--Srinivassa 22:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's a combination of all of those,obviously when the game was new a great share of the players didn't know enough,also the wiki and forums had less information on them to help players.The scammers know that there are less people to fool so they don't try as often any more,also the reward does not outweight the cost right now,with that i mean, the scammer would have to spend more time trying to catch a victim now because the players are better informed or can get information faster/better,i would say that the chances of getting caught now are also greater,there are more people to see you try to fool the newbies and they will report you,It is much easier to report now too.Finally I would say you are more likely to not be paying that much attention to the chat because,now we have heroes and better henchies so you don't HAVE to spend time in a town trying to get a group, you also most likely have the weapons and items you want so your probably not paying attention to the chat for that either.So I would say you are not blind to it, you just don't pay that much attention to it anymore. Durga Dido 22:56, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I must be one of the few people who leaves all the chat channels open, and I still see some mischievous deeds every day... however, these days they are mostly account buyers/sellers, instead of other scams like overpriced mats/not-so-rare items etc. I know that inaccurate PC is commonplace, so the "true" prices of things is usually different than advertised, but I don't consider that a scam since it's usually not worth the trouble to professionally sell your stuff, at least for the common player. Thus I don't cry foul when I see a 15^50 inscrip for 10k - that may be less than what the person originally paid for it, etc.
 * As to Monastary Credit etc. things, while I personally consider that a scam, it is also barely worth troubling about because not that many people understand the value of Superior Salvage Kits (and so they will argue you to death over it), and the Monastary Credit itself is only worth 100g... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't there need to be some remnants of "an actual Economy" left in order to really motivate these scammers into making new scams?  I put forth the theory that most scammers just rolled Perma SF's instead b/c it requires less Effort than Fraud :D  --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](8,Jan.'09)

When I first started doing VSF, I thought that every second perma would leave and let the enemies swarm us while we were collecting our loot from the ending chest for the luls. Things have been supprisingly cool though, if they mess up and let the enemies hit the group everyone i had was willing to stay and try again so we dont get cheated out our drops and possibility of getting the oh so prestigous Voltaic Spear. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.68.14.196 (contribs).
 * Money is a lot easier to come by now. If in the time it takes to scam someone out of 1k, you would only have made 500g by other means, that can be tempting to some people.  If now you could have made 2k in the same amount of time, spending the time to scam someone out of 1k instead is a lot less appealing.  Quizzical 05:14, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Reorganization of Common Item Scam Section
In order to make it easier for newer players to learn how to protect themselves, I've reorganized the item scam section; the actual advice was obscured by the number of details. I have not removed any of the original entries.
 * I have categorized each caution into one of eight categories;
 * I have rephrased a few individual comments to fit the categorization and to emphasize the cautionary lesson.

I think this advice-first emphasis shows that we probably have too many examples. If this article is meant to be brief (compared to the main article chock-full of details), I think we can remove or combine some. If people like the current direction, I'll take another stab at consolidation. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:25, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

About the minipet section
I'm having trouble finding a way to re-word a sentence to accurately state the truth about minis and "gifts."

The article states that: "They do not come from any Gifts, including Wintersday Gifts or Winter Gifts. "

This was written prior to the introduction of Gifts of the Traveler.

Help? The Black Leach 18:31, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems more acurate now, updated with "Only 3 minipets are available from gifts. The only gift to produce a minipet is Gift of the Traveler, no other gifts can produce a minipet, including Wintersday Gifts and Winter Gifts." Venom20 18:41, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

The article states "Never believe someone when they tell you the item they are selling you is worth the merchant value shown in trade window. Some people will try to trade you an item that says "value:XXXgold" rather than giving you the gold you are asking for an item. This is a scam because the item in trade window, if stackable, shows the merchant value of the whole stack of items that person is holding, not just the one they are trading you". Is this out of date? Because I've never observed this to happen. And I just tested it myself in a trade, and a single charr carving coming from a stack showed a value of 3 gold. Is there some other way to get this phenomenon to happen, or is it no longer true and should thus be removed? Ailina 00:09, August 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hah, nice. They fixed it. Updating article in three... two... one... --Vipermagi 00:31, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Beggars
I don't really like the idea of discouraging generosity. 01:25, October 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uh... are you serious? If you give to a beggar in GW, you're not being generous, you're being conned.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 02:46, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't like the idea of encouraging people to sit in an outpost all day long spamming "need money plz" instead of just getting some themselves. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K is pro-AWA! 12:32, October 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Being generous is asking only half the price of something, or giving something free, or the reverse, giving much more money than the other player had asked. I've done them all, in several different situations, but never have I given someone that was begging for money anything.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 12:52, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Low rec weapons
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/low-req-weapons-stats-and-t10440240.html

This thread tracks the drops of low rec weapons and is used by most of the prominent guild wars players still active. Take 10 random people from that thread and you get 100000 chest runs total no problems at all. Several have 20.000+. Anyone that actually actively farms know that the max R8 Staff drop possible is 11-21 damage and 20% HSR and that no drop of a 11-22 R8 Staff has been confirmed in years. Inscribable or otherwise, so stop spreading completely useless bullshit. So stop spreading lies about R8 still dropping because anyone with a single clue about rare weapons in this game, knows they don't with the exception of shields \ swords and focus items. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.54.60 (contribs) 16:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC).


 * I can see that you have strong reason for believing that ANet changed the drop rates for q8 11-22 staves to zero. That doesn't make someone else a liar for believing something else.


 * "most prominent guild wars players still active"


 * Unfortunately, that's a meaningless phrase. Prominent where? I've never played with any of those people.


 * "Take 10 random people from that thread and you get 100000 chest runs"


 * The thread doesn't show 100,000 chest runs; it shows selected results from lots of chests runs. When human beings aren't counting every single drop, it's really, really easy for them to miss something, even when it's as valuable as a q8 11-22 staff.
 * I happen to know a lot of the players in that thread, and they are the most prominent traders and collectors in the game. These are the people that sell and buy R8 on a daily basis as well as many of them running 100+ chests per day. Or do DoA record runs, and post 60-70% of the answering posts in the Guildwarsguru price check forums. They know their stuff in and out better then anyone and if no one in that thread can post a R8 weapon outside of Sword \ Shield \ Focus then it by all probabilities doesn't drop. As an example, I myself have had 20+ Q8 Shields drop in the last 6 months alone, 2 focuses and 4 swords. (Yes, I farm a lot and run a lot of chests). And I havent gotten one single Q8 Drop of anything else. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.54.60 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC).


 * A big problems with drop rate data in this game is that people are heavily influenced by rumors and unconfirmed theories. I have a friend who is well aware that random numbers run in streaks, but cannot get it out of his head that festival drops are better during afternoons (in his time zone). He over-reports good runs during that time period and under-reports bad ones (even though he is aware that he is self-selecting).
 * Actually the Anti Farm code is not really fully explained so that could be true presuming he plays in off-peak hours where there would be less people farming at the same time as him. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.54.60 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC).


 * ANet hasn't fully explained anti-farm code, but they have explicitly stated that only extreme farmers will ever notice it; my friend is a casual farmer at best. (I also don't think there's absolutely no evidence that drops are affected by time of day or other people farming; that's as plausible as it's affected by phases of the moon or whether Mars is in Aquarius.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


 * So, I'm not arguing that q8 11-22 staves continue to drop. I'm arguing that the thread offered above as a reference isn't sufficient to support that claim. It's a lot harder to prove a negative especially when most of the testing is being done by people who believe the theory; it takes a serious skeptic to ensure the rigorous testing required to discount the possibility. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a single recorded drop since the release of Nightfall outside of HoH which was updated a little later then other areas. That's not definite enough? But the completely unproven rumor that they still do is enough to call people that actually know their stuff scammers? Nobody does more chest runs and farming then the people who frequent the trade forums on guildwarsguru. The Low-rec weapons thread has 25000 views and nobody has posted a single thing about seeing a post-NF Q8 weapon outside of Sword \ Focus \ Shield. It's not scientifically perfect, but it's by a far the most definite proof we've got that it doesn't drop anymore. The reality is, that the only thing that "Scam" note is good for is if a scammer referred to this very page in order to get a Q8 weapon cheaper making the incorrect statement that "They're not that rare, they can still drop." &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.54.60 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC).


 * About the other note you deleted. Asking for money is a scam, there is nothing in the EULA to my knowledge that says anything about in-game scams, that's one of the "on the sole discretion of NCSoft" offenses, but even if you don't classify giving someone money as a scam there are plenty of ways to do it in a scam-like way, like asking for XX gold so you can YY with promise to pay back, but no intent to. there are a myriad of ways which asking for money is indeed a scam, and only 1 which is not. &mdash; Viruzzz 17:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree completely.
 * If it can be a scam, then it's worth noting. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Asking for money = scam (depending on the circumstances)
Asking for a handout isn't a scam or AFAIK counter to the EULA. However, when the reason that people give for their request is bogus, that's just as much as a scam as making misleading or false statements to trade goods or services. A common rationale used by beggars is that they aren't good at farming (or don't know where to farm or ...); that's an unsupportable claim for two reasons: (a) there's nothing in this game that requires farming and (b) simply playing through quests earns enough cash to pay for virtually anything (including luxury items via player trades). Farming only affects how quickly that happens for someone.

Consequently, I think we ought to retain some type of note about mooching. Maybe we shouldn't tell people to never give handouts, but we should tell them that no one needs handouts to prosper. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:30, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually the article doesn't claim that beggars are scammers; but we believe that some of them are. So if you wish to avoid getting scammed, don't give them money - anyone (scammer or not) can complete one or two simple quests to get access to their chest, and they'll be playing the game they love to do so, right? (People who are in a guild usually don't have that problem, as guildies can help them out.)
 * So please do not discuss whether beggars are scammers.
 * Also, don't use the argument that people give money willingly - there is no way to get money from other players other than trade, so all money acquired as the result of a scam has been given willingly, but usually under false pretenses. --◄mendel► 18:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, telling people to be on their guard is no problem. But consequently telling people NOT to give handouts because those asking are scammers is plain wrong. Most of the people asking for handouts are genuine new players. And you know what, you should try giving someone chest money from time to time, you'd be surprised what you get back in return from time to time.. This thread should be here to warn people of actual scams, like the Merchantile Summoning Stone scam and similar ones. Not to create a cold an ungenerous community &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.48.54.60 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC).
 * Please sign your posts.
 * it takes 50g to get access to your storage, if you ever go to the new player areas you will see the same people begging in chat for 30 minutes to an hour, even in prophecies which is the slowest way to make money it will not take you more than 5 minutes to make 50G, and most actual new players will have it from pre-searing.
 * Secondly, a genuinely new player most likely has no idea what the xunlai storage is, the people beggin for money for it is someone with alts who already knows about the game, and if he has anythign of value in there, he will know how to make 50g &mdash; Viruzzz 21:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)