User talk:Gares Redstorm

Archive1

Task List
As of May 12, 2006, my characters ages are:


 * Whoof. So, are you buying Factions for each account? And, for your later reference, they're adding buyable character slots... eventually. I hear. I want to say this summer but I have no citation for that. :) --Tinarto [[Image:Tinarto-gold-Monk-icon-small.png]] 16:33, 12 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Damn! That's like 1700 hrs total, or 71 days of straight playing. When I reach that much, maybe I'll have enough cred (and confidence in my ability) to make real edits at this wiki. Maybe I'll even have a fighting chance in PvP by then. You never know... --Fenris (talk) 17:16, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

Real World Guild Wars Class
Taking the quiz brought to my attention by Phoenix on Fun page created by Gem.

My results for the Prophecies quiz:

Mesmer 75% Warrior	75% Necromancer 50% Elementalist 40% Ranger 35% Monk 20%

Even had a tiebreaker question between Mesmer and Warrior, it was that close. --Gares Redstorm 09:52, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

My results for the Factions edition quiz:

Warrior	94% Assassin 81% Mesmer 75% Ritualist 69% Elementalist 63% Ranger 63% Monk 44% Necromancer 44%

No tiebreaker here, but I guess even with my charm ;), I still have a fighter mentality. -Gares Redstorm 12:51, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

Request for adminship
I added a bit of a comment on your rfa, just wanted to say that I'm not having a go at you, your worth to the GuildWiki is unquestionable because of your tireless contributing and I think you'll make a good admin. But over at Wikipedia they have quite an involved rfa process where the candidate states why they're "worthy" and users are allowed to ask a whole lot of questions etc. You're under no obligation (or even expectation) to respond, I just thought you might find the feedback useful. Good luck with your rfa (although you look like a shoe in, I'd better stay on your good side :P ) --Xasxas256 22:51, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

Addition: I should say that the other reason why you can just read this (ie there's no need to respond) is that it could just be me. I couldn't remember really bumping into you much so just had a look over your contributions, seeing how many of your edits were to talk pages (and having a look at a sample of your talk page edits) and precieved a lack of visibilty from you, but others (and yourself) may disagree and think I'm crazy. That's ok too, I like being crazy, normality is for chumps! Besides it's not necessary for admins (or potential admins) to have massive community involvement, as I said above, it's just feedback. --Xasxas256 22:59, 5 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I hope your not having a go at me. My girlfriend would go nuts. Hehe. Really though, I love feedback. Don't know if you are doing something wrong till someone tells you or you blow something up. :P


 * Here is one of my recent rambling episodes. I'm more for the collection, validation, and protection of the data that is found here at GuildWiki. But I do keep tabs on all the discussions. I don't want to be a step behind in something. ;) --Gares Redstorm 23:12, 5 June 2006 (CDT)


 * "Don't know if you are doing something wrong till someone tells you or you blow something up." Can't you do both!? Anyway it's a shame you don't write on talk/user talk pages more, you seem pretty laid back and fun. However your example of "rambling" is way off, check out some real ramblings I've put on the user page of poor (yet tolerant of my general craziness) Karlos. User_talk:Karlos and User_talk:Karlos. They were a bit before I took a short wikibreak and went off the boil a little. I wouldn't bother reading it because it's a dead discussion from a time I was angry and annoyed but look at the sheer length of those comments! You've got a long way to go mate, also your "ramble" actually made sense! --Xasxas256 23:41, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

Categories go at the bottom
Whoah there cowboy. :) I do believe the current consensus is Style_and_formatting. One of the reasons is that categories on top disrupt spacing on the page. --Bishop (rap|con) 06:35, 8 June 2006 (CDT)

For the rest of this discussion see User_talk:Bishop.

Skill icon RVs..
If there's a question on whether or not we should use those skill icons in skill listings, then I suggest you raise the issue on a talk page. Reverting what seems to be a nice edit is really uncalled for. Do you have any concerns about listing the skills with the tiny icons next to them? The format is simple enough and it looks a lot prettier. This is how a lot of good looking things on this site started, just someone tries them on a few things, people like them then propagate them.

So, yes, it is not our standard monster template, but that monster template can always change if someone comes with a nice idea to add to it. These colorful little icons are certainly a nice idea. I won't counter revert your reverts, but I will start the discussion if it's not already started. --Karlos 00:34, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Its already started. --Gares Redstorm 08:18, 10 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Personally, I think because the discussion hasn't finalized yet, and there are already other articles in that state, your reverts are as pointless as the person's edits. Of course, reverting yoru revert back tot he person's edit is equally pointless etc.  It sufficies to let the person know the matter has not been finalized.  Reverting his edits places you on the same level as he was. - 12:43, 10 June 2006 (CDT)
 * After the first edit he made, I explained it to him. I can't make someone read their talk page. See what I said here. I can only explain that there is a discussion in the works and that his edits, whether they are in good intentions (and I believe he does think he is doing the right thing), is still under review. So until that review is finalized, I feel his edits on skill icons are not necessary at this time until policy has changed. Whether I am depicted as the bad guy on this topic is not my concern, my concern is to try my best to keep the Wiki as uniform as possible until a consensus has been finalized. --Gares Redstorm 12:52, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Personally, I think until the decision is finalized that the articles should conform to what we have listed in the S&F pages. Otherwise, why have the pages at all, just make a talk page and let people discuss things there endlessly and do what they want with the pages.  <-insert sarcasm as necessary  --Rainith 13:26, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Personally, I think the beauracracy is getting to us. The boss maps, how were they started? In the boss template or just good intentioned people adding maps to boss articles. Did we RV the ones added until the community approves the addition of (yes a more useful feature) those maps? This is no harm, look good, quick IDing of most skills, why not? This is not the beast box that has to be all migrated quickly, this is an alternate listing, I don't care if we have half the pages using one and the other half using the other. Anyways, let's get off this poor guy's talk page and keep it in its thread. --Karlos 03:22, 11 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Poor? Hehe, I am far from being poor, although if I keep buying lottery tickets, I might be one day. It's nice when people visit my talk page, I don't keep it clean for nothing :D I'm not one for much discussion, I'd rather see action, so I say let's just take a vote and be done with it and let the cards fall where they may. --Gares Redstorm 05:12, 11 June 2006 (CDT)

For your consideration
I should have posted this here last night, but I was tired and I forgot, so please let me know any ideas that you might have. Also if you could add whatever text you are using to seperate the categories from the main article to my example I'd appreciate it. Original message follows:

Don't know if you're at all interested in this, but I'd appreciate your feedback here about this. --Rainith 15:53, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

Hey hey
I couldn't help but notice you jumping onto Talk:Game updates/20060615. So has the slow transformation from hiding in the shadows to standing on a soap box begun? :P --Xasxas256 21:58, 15 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hehe. When I see something wrong, I will speak out. No soap box though, just stating an observation out loud. --Gares Redstorm 22:02, 15 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well it seems to have died down now, although Stabber isn't back yet though I've noticed. I'm not entirely sure if I'm happy with how my comment on Stabber's talk page has come out but it was something I saw unfolding and I did have an opinion that was worth expressing. Strangely I probably wouldn't have said anything (including the mildly critical stuff about Karlos) had it not been for Karlos telling me to stand up for what I believe in a while ago. My this comment is all very serious isn't it!? Perhaps I can liken it to Perillos and his Brazen bull, you know when you show someone something then it gets used against you. You know because torture devices are really really funny aren't they!? :P --Xasxas256 23:08, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

New PvP view from a PvEer
I noticed after finishing all my Luxon quests, that I will need 55 more Jadeite Shards to get my 15k Luxon armor. What is a PvEer to do? Repeatable quests, Challenge missions with hench or find a way to solo them, or do competitive missions such as Fort Aspenwood. Hmmm... I had heard from some guildies that competitive missions are the way to go, but that they are like the Random Arenas, thus PvP.

I am not one to shy away from something new, so I entered Fort Aspenwood (Luxon), check my skills and attribs, and hit Enter Battle. I had no clue what to do when I first went in, though I knew one thing, to kill the opposing team. I lost my first time, though my PvE build worked excellent in PvP as well. I was highly suprised with all the talk about different builds for both types of play.

My second time around, I figure I would prepare mentally. I went to Wiki to see the winning objectives and what the mines did. I took a drink of my soda, cracked my knuckles, and I was ready to go. I am not sure if it was because I had played already, or it was a better team, but we were dominating. I decided to keep the opposing players busy while my team broke through the gates, so I began shadowing the other team, especially one determined warrior. At one point, he was going to die so he ran. I did not understand it, because of the rez thing, but I followed to finish the job. He used Sprint and it so happens I had it as well. As he moved this way and that, I followed his every move, knowing his sprint would run out way before mine (I doubted his strength was 14, as mine was). Poor fellow lost the fight, but the war between the Luxons and the Kurzicks was far from over.

I decided to help my allies to lay seige on the Kurzick base. I had not noticed the damage Siege Turtles could cause. I was amazed as the Juggernaut I was slowly wearing down was suddenly destroyed. I imagined leaves, branches, and moss flying everywhere as the cannonball collided with the Juggernaut's hide. It was a short, but sweet victory as the leader was quickly dispatched, and I fell in love with competitive missions.

Why now do I find PvP so fascinating when I found a distaste for it earlier in Prophecies? I believe it was the fact that in Random Arenas there was not enough of a purpose other than to kill the other team, and that can get boring real quick. Another plus to the PvEer who decides to enter the fray, the rewards are not only PvP based. I found no satisfaction in receiving Balthazar points, but to gain alliance faction is something a PvEer can put to use. Kudos to ANet, nice way to mix elements of both styles of play. -Gares 11:41, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
 * You hated PvP because of RA? Oo That place is home of wammos and ppl tesing builds, if you want some half-decent you should have tried HA &mdash; Skuld  12:46, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I do AB quite a bit now and some of my guildies are wanting to try GvG again, so I may be going back into there soon. -Gares 12:57, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * ahem, i wish some nice pair of wikified gentlemen would take me to HoH. i've a total of one fame to my name, and that was because the other team quit. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 13:03, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I haven't been to HA in a loooong time. Where is it now, the Crystal Desert? :P -Gares 13:52, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Alliance battles, Aspenwood, and the quarry are essentially PvP-light. Even though ANet is probably trying to bridge the gap between the two groups with them, it's a one-way PvE -> PvP effort, though that's not unreasonable.  Most HA and GvG players have a certain disdain for those types of PvP since the teams are random (or, mostly random for alliance battles) since this destroys the teamwork that's necessary for the two "real" types of PvP.  Admittedly, I'm part of that group.  As for RA and rewards, everyone thinks RA is a joke and people PvP because... they want to PvP.  A PvEr might look at a mission (competitive or not) and do it to advance their character whether in terms of storyline or equipment.  Building your character is sort of the end goal of PvE.  PvP has just the game/match as a point.  That's probably why it's a one-way effort like I mentioned at first, there's no incentive a pure PvPer could want (or even have) to go the other way.  --68.142.14.19 13:35, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Newbie question
You put gcc in some of your edits. The only time I've ever seen gcc is to mean GNU C Compiler. ;) Which I don't think is applicable here. What does it mean? --Chrono traveller 17:29, 3 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Hehe, I'm not compiling any programs here and I haven't used that in a looong time either. My gcc is an abbrevation for Gares' Category Crusade.


 * hehe, my same subconcious thoughts :p &mdash; Skuld  12:35, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Byssha Hisst
Heh, wouldn't have unstubbed that normally, mind distorting-mass edits ftl &mdash; Skuld  07:22, 22 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I have to go back through and finish my gcc, so if you go a little crazy, I'll fix it. I just happened to be on and noticed. -Gares 07:24, 22 July 2006 (CDT)

Help with the green
Elswyth's Recurve Bow Elswyth's Long Bow Wroth's Holy Rod Grognar's Blade Brimstone Wand Wenslauss' Chalice Victo's Maul

These are the one that I don't have. Thank you in advance. &mdash; ├ A ratak  ┤  21:04, 23 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I'll try to get up with you tonight, unless I fall asleep as soon as I get home from work. -Gares 16:56, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * GF on vacation. She dont let me game as much.  Should online tonight around 6 eastern time.&mdash; ├ A  ratak  ┤  08:24, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Hehe, I get to play, but mine gives me grief about it....every day. :\
 * I get off work at 6:00 so I'll be on 6:30. -Gares 08:28, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Ranger icons
Might want to change R to, latest mediawiki broke it 16:31, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks. I've noticed the bug talk and corrections, but overlooked my page. -Gares 16:56, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

/resign update
Please see Talk:Game_updates/20060727 for my comments. -- (talk) 12:29, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

when moving stuff
When moving discussion from one talk to somewhere else (excluding archives), instead of completely wiping it from where it's from, please instead make a note of where the discussion got moved to (if you can't remember the name of the template:Move-to, you can simply type it).

I was trying to find the discussion regarding removal of green link, started from GuildWiki talk:Community Portal, followed a link to GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Weapons, when suddenly the trace just disappeared and it had no archive... ~_~""" - 16:55, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * At first I thought you were crazy, cause I haven't moved anything in well over a month or more. I did archive the green link vote as well as the discussion that went along with it. I checked to make sure I was archiving the vote to guildwiki standards, but I did not know a forwarding link had to be placed. There was no guideline stating it, and after reviewing some of the archived votes, some have links to where the votes were w/ information still intact, others have no links, and yet others have links to the page the vote/discussion was once on.


 * I was archiving(cleaning) from Category:Votes and was not aware of the link from the community talk page, nor was I aware that a follow-up link had to be placed, as there is no guidelines to archiving votes regarding follow-up links. :\ -Gares 17:52, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I came up with some stuff along with Rainith on GuildWiki talk:Old votes, I *think* this is what you guys are talking about --Xasxas256 18:08, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

Tarlok's Flagon
Hiya, just reading about your collection of greens. I picked up a Tarlok's Flagon, which is useless to me (I don't have an elementalist) and I probably wouldn't use it (if I had an ele) and can't really sell it. If you feel that you want to collect the greens on your own, I can totally respect that. But, I figured I shouldn't let something potentially useful to someone go to waste. PM me in-game on any of the characters on my user page. I'm usually on any time past 9 or 10 pm EST but don't feel rushed (because I'm sporadically on). I'm not very busy currently (on break from school) so if another time would be convenient to you, please say so. --Vortexsam 04:12, 6 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I thank you for your generous offer to the Gares Green collection. I found out a long time ago that I will not be able to get them all myself, especially with the majority of Factions bosses dropping greens and research for the Wiki comes first before my hobbies ingame. Any help with my crusade would be most appreciated. And Ferndale scares me to death. I hate Dredge with a passion. *shakes fist at Dredge* -Gares 11:06, 6 August 2006 (CDT)


 * After thinking about what you said in-game, I paused to ponder a bit. In truth, no one really knows all the mechanics of Guild Wars. I have a wild guess that maybe in a full party, the drop rates may be altered and greens might drop more often. Of course, there is the logical fact that if a boss takes 3 minutes to solo (when you get to it), it would be equivalent to having two henchmen and taking out a boss in 1 minute. Well, that isn't great evidence to show that partying up will improve your drop rates but it's worth a thought, for those areas you can't solo. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if ArenaNet awarded things like that but that's mere speculation.
 * Also, don't think I don't have a selfish interest in giving away a Tarlok's Flagon. When you get the full set (hopefully before Nightfall or you'll never catch =P), I'll be proud in helping contribute to a great achievement, rather than sitting around and being jealous. =) --Vortexsam 20:21, 6 August 2006 (CDT)


 * This collection may be a fight I cannot win, but I have never backed down from a challenge, see my police record :P
 * In Prophecies there are 93 documented greens and I have collected 69.
 * In Factions there are 165 documented greens (only counting the Divine Path variants once, i.e. one Straw Effigy, one Exalted Aegis, etc, and counting the Shing Jea Island greens) and I have collected 44.
 * All in all, I need to collect 145 more to complete my green collection before Nightfall. I know I can solo farm for at least 23 more greens and have, but with no luck yet. I love it ;) -Gares 19:53, 7 August 2006 (CDT)

Admin status
Congrats! --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:41, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmm, Gravewit jumped the gun, NWN2 and/or FFXII aren't out yet. :P  It's ok though as Gares is probably too busy on NeverWiki to notice this.  ;)  Congrats anyway.  --Rainith 19:44, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I pass on my congrats also and I'm sure you'll make a fine admin. --Xasxas256 21:48, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm late for thank yous, but thank you. As you can tell, I am sweeping the floors and taking out the trash, but I don't do toilets. And can I take down my "You've been nominated for adminship" banner now? :P -Gares 14:55, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Congratulations! Seems like Gravewit doesn't oppose adding more admins. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:17, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Yep, and I am still for the side of more admins. -Gares 15:31, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
 * If Gravewit hadn't done it, I would have. I haven't changed my stance that we should be extremely cautious in promoting more admins, but the discussion did sway me to believe that adding you as an admin, at this time, would be beneficial. In any case, it's good to have you; welcome to the team! &mdash;Tanaric 10:59, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks. I hope I can live up to everyone's expectations. -Gares 12:35, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Atleast your living up to MY expectations. Thanks for deleting the images!  First Rainith tells me he'll do it. A few seconds later you start to do it instead. Must be sockpuppets!  Just kidding. :P --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:19, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't mind being called a sockpuppet. Where I live I am called a character, but in the south that basically means I'm retarded. Go figure. *shrugs and smiles* -Gares 18:41, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * : D lol --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:48, 15 August 2006 (CDT)

Catacombs
It's one thing to argue about which map is better, but not only you removed my virsion from the Map article, but you also delete the file itself, (didn't we want maps which are our own? no need for external links and credits?), and you change the virsion displayed in MY user page!! (under the text "My large catacombs map without paths."). I'm talking the liberty to upload it again. please watch what exactly you are editing next time. Foo 02:12, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * (another thing, you removed the first part of the sentance, leaving "a detailed version by J.Kougar", but not saying of what) Foo 02:18, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * First off, I knew exactly what I was doing. The detailed version created by J.Kougar is actually another image entirely with POIs. I removed the credit regarding the catacombswithoutmaps.jpg image. He is still regarded for creating the map with the POIs, which is why that is still there. In any case, if credit goes to J.Kougar for the map and you are not J.Kougar, then how is it your map?


 * Second, two maps of the same area is a waste in my book. You uploaded a map, the same exact map, but your's is of poorer quality. Editing a user page with updated content has been going on for sometime. When ANet changed the names of greens, such as Drago's Flat Bow to Drago's Flatbow, user pages were changed, such as my green list on my user page by other users. There was even a discussion to see if it was the right thing to do. If you want to upload the file again, fine, but keep it to your page, since there was a concensus that the other image is better. And if it's not your work, add back credit that it was J.Kougar that really created the map. -Gares 07:34, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

I'll make it all clearer: was my map candidate for deletion before it was deleted? please read this, this, and the pages you edit, and don't be in such a hurry to test out your new admin powers on the expence of others. Foo 10:50, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Image:Catacombsmapwithoutpaths.jpg is mine, as in, I made it.
 * 1) I belive Image:Catacombs_map.jpg was made out of it.
 * 2) this is not mine.
 * 3) (which means I uploaded only one map, and uploaded it for the first time).
 * 4) I'm not complaining about the map article, but of my user page. the note about the map article came to tell that you totaly removed the word 'catacombs' from the line and link.
 * 5) Yeah, update a user page, but first, check out what he is showing. I clearly stated that I'm showing MY map, while you changed it to another map, the one from 3, which is not mine.


 * I am sorry you feel so strongly on this issue, but as you stated, you will upload your image again. You are not the only user to be upset by the actions of an admin. There are always those that will feel wronged at some point in time.


 * Assumptions about how the Image:Catacombs map.jpg was created can only be answered by the uploader of that image. Image:Catacombsmapwithoutpaths.jpg was linked to the credits page giving J.Kougar credit for creating the map. I removed all links linked to "your" map and linked them to the concensus-winning map. Please read Image talk:Catacombs map.jpg. There is no reason to have the same, I use that word loosely, image with two different titles. I did not change your thumb description because that was not discussed. You obviously figured it out, so you could have changed it yourself, thus not getting into that debate. You were showing a plotted catacombs map and one without the plots. Why not have a better picture in place? Maybe there are others that can use image editing tools better, I know I can't do it, image editing is not my thing. As for the deletion, if I did not have the admin tools (yes, they are tools, not powers), I would have still changed all the links linking to your image and placed a delete tag on it. And, though I do not know this since it did not take place, we deleted a lot of images last night and I am sure yours would have been one of those. So, if I was a user or admin/user, it probably would have still been deleted.


 * As to your calling on the policies mentioned above, those two conflict in one area. Do not immediately delete unless vandalism or spam...correct. But under your second policy citing, it states, "delete articles to maintain our high quality of content." Since Image:Catacombs map.jpg was of higher quality than Catacombsmapwithoutpaths.jpg, but your map was linked to everything, I did what was expected, attach the links to the other image and delete yours. In hindsight, as long as it is only linked to your user page, I think we can come to a compromise. -Gares 13:06, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm sorry, I'm the one who started this by putingt the link in the map article. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 13:17, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * It's just a little dispute between two users, Gem. No worries. :D -Gares 14:42, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Since we allow users to upload Guild Wars–related content for sole display on a userpage, your changing of Foo's user page link was probably inappropriate. You could very well have changed all the other links, but not changed Foo's user page link or deleted his image. That said, since we've gotten to that result now, there's no permanent harm done. :) &mdash;Tanaric 16:08, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * If you cared to check out this before assuming the pic is NOT mine, you could have seen it is. (or just check who uploaded it!!). You still ignore the fact that you have deleted a picture I uploaded for my own user page, and edited the page to include something that did not fit in there. we deleted a lot of images last night is not an excuse for this type or mistakes, and as it can be understood here, you should add a deletion tag to items, in order to let people have the chance to 'defend' them. (yes, they are tools, but it looks as you are seeing them as powers.) compromise?! let me say it again, Administrate users, not content. Foo 16:19, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Is this such a big deal really? Skuld deleted four sets of images earlier, all listed by me. No one had anything against such operations earlier. And this caacombs map thing has nothing to do with that mass deletioning as it wasn't on my list. People make mistakes, so give m´him a break. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 16:32, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I've said my peace in regards to the image and citing of policies. Even Tanaric has commented on it. Let him get it out if it makes him feel better. -Gares 16:47, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

I'd feel better if I know that the people running this place cares more about it then about their egos, and your condescending tone and refusal to admit to any mistake surely does not help at all. Foo 16:54, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Now you are both acting in a manner which I don't like. I'll better leav eyou two alone. *hides* --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:01, 16 August 2006 (CDT)