Talk:Shards of Orr

How do you kill Fendi Nin?
I didn't have too much trouble with the rest of the dungeon, but Fendi keeps respawning. I have killed him about 20 times in a row, each time he respawns as a soul form, then normal form. Twenty respawns in a row and still going strong. Is there some way to stop him from respawning and keep him dead? I entered through Gadd's entrance to the dungeon, and did not take a specific quest, - is that relevant? The article seems to suggest he only respawns twice, but I have killed him 20 times now. I don't mind, since each time I get more title xp points, but I want to get this dungeon registered in my dungeon guide soon, though. I don't want to just have to map out to end it.

BTW, Fendi seems pretty easy to "kill" in each form, and for the most part I have been soloing him with just a hench monk healing me in the background. A couple degens with necrosis spammed on top, plus pain inverter just before he casts deathly chill or some other spike, maybe a snowstorm or two, and he goes down as fast as a level 24 critter almost. What I can't seem to figure out is how to keep him from continuously respawning, without end. --Rpger 20:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)--Rpger 08:51, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah, ok ... someone needs to highlight the mechanics of this boss in the article, as it is currently extremely vague to non-existant, and it is critical to the completion of this dungeon. What you need to "kill" is the soul form of the boss, - the original form is unimportant other than to keep killing in order to get to the soul form. The soul form, however, is transient and lasts only a few seconds, but has a very high starting hp, which means it will take forever to kill since it may take 5-10 min to kill the normal form first, and then you only have a few seconds to damage the soul form before it reverts to the normal boss form. My initial average (with health bonuses)was only 5% damage per round until my henches and heros began accumulating dp.

I have now repeated the battle about 50 times, and the soul form is down to about 30%. However all my henches now have 60% dp. With 60% dp, henches will only do 10-20 points damage to the soul form before the group is wiped by the mob which spawns with the soul version. Careful pulling can easily take more time than the soul form is around. And if half your team of henches is dead from killing the normal form, most of the few seconds you have with the soul form often may be spent resurrecting monk henches, reducing your ability to damage it also. The reality is you will be lucky to get more than 1-2% damage per spawn cycle. As a result, finishing the boss section could easily take many hours just repeating the battle, over and over. Whoever designed this "final battle" was negligent. It is makes the game worse to require players to repeat the same thing over too many times, and really makes me regret the direction GW has gone: pointless tedium.

It would be a simple matter to correct, - just reduce the number of hitpoints or resistances the soul form has in order to make it more likely to kill in two or three rounds with henches (or one if you're expert). Repeating something 2 or 3 times, although annoying, is not that bad. Having to repeat something nearly 100 times is absurd. If GW2 is just going to be more of this nonsense, I am going to pass. I have played hundreds of hours of GW since 2005, so I am no noob, either. This dungeon needs to be patched, as the final battle is too repetitive even for experienced players. --Rpger 11:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1. New posts go on the bottom of the page, that's convention.
 * 2. The mechanics are mentioned in the article, you just need to read it.
 * 3. ANet does not read this wiki, they have their own.
 * 4. Tanking and nuking, like in most PvE areas, works. Even after the nerf, RoJ is still powerful in this dungeon, I tanked for my smiter heroes (that's how I HH'd it on HM), and I was a ranger (in fact, most classes can tnak effectively).
 * You are right, however, there is a reason people call it Grind of the North. King Neoterikos[[Image:KNsignature.jpg]] 13:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * 1. Didn't know, as most commentary crawls go the opposite way, new posts on top, - example: every video commentary thread (like YouTube, Google video), Social Networking site (like Facebook, MySpace), as well as most blogs (which usually give the option of sorting both ways).  If "newest goes on the bottom" is the rule here, it is the exception and such a deficiecy needs to be addressed by better placed instructions, since the rule is neither intuitive or obvious based on the current majority of convention througout the Internet, and throughout the history of the Internet.


 * It's also not a very smart way of organizing commentary for a game that is routinely patched and whose rules may change frequently.  The newest and therefore most-likely-to-be-relevant information is most efficiently obtained at the top, not the bottom.  A long commentary thread may take a long time to scroll through.


 * 2. The mechanics are still poorly worded, as I did read it. For example, no indication of hit points is given so it is not obvious whether the soul is dying or simply reverting or if there is a bug.  For example, the sentence, "To win, you must kill the soul form which does not regenerate between appearances" is much more concise than the multiple sentences currently used from which one must vaguely infer the same.  Maybe an analogy too, like frustration of of this boss fight resembles that of killing a Wurm before it submerges beneath the ground, except the "submerging" here being the reversion of the soul to its corporeal form.


 * 3. What does ANet have to do with this post? This is general commentary.


 * 4. I know what it takes, I had 3 eles with me (water for disruption, earth for protection, fire for raw damage), and I basically was tanking. The point is the mechanics work horribly for an all hench or hench/hero party.  Because of the high hp of soul form and the spike its mob spawn creates, after ten rounds or so henches will probably have 60% dp.  All my henches began with +10% bonuses but after 10 rounds they had 60% dp, and each spike from the mob which spawns with the soul form wipes your henches out before they can damage it.  Basically, the player has to solo the soul form each time while the remaining henches take the spike from Fendi, assuming he doesn't randomly target you first.


 * Luck has a lot to do with it also.  The behavior of Fendi (both soul and corporeal versions) varies, - sometimes chasing, sometimes loitering (the best scenario), and sometimes running away even when aggressively aggroed.   Moreover, the spawns vary also, - sometimes they spawn en masse with Fendi (either form), and sometimes they spawn far away in the start chamber.  Sometimes they spike immediately, sometimes not. That makes some Fendi soul spawns mostly a waste of time, - basically only one spellcast might be possible before the group is wiped.  Others spawns however are great, - for example when Fendi's soul randomly spawns without its crew, and he doesn't run away, you can take his soul's hp down much more.


 * I finally won, total time was 16 hours, (although admittedly I was asleep or eating for 9 of those hours), but basically what ends up happening is the corporeal Fendi saves his spike for right before he dies, so your 60% dp henches will end up dying right before the soul form emerges, or end up wasting time resurrecting the fallen during the few critical seconds to damage the soul form, - leaving the player alone to take down the health of the soul form.  As a necro the only "spike" I had were degens and a necrosis spam (90 points per hit as a legendary spearmarshal).  I also had SS and Parasite, but would rarely have enough energy or time left to actually put those to use before the soul form reverted. Using that alone I could spam a few necrosis spikes each round.  In the worst cases I would only apply a -3 degen before dying or before Fendi's soul might randomly start running away out of reach.


 * Again, this problem could be easily fixed by reducing the hp on Fendi's soul form, or since Fendi's soul is a kind of "spirit", make it vulnerable to a ritualist gaze of fury or some other spirit busting mechanism so people with henches don't have to waste hours in just one dungeon. --Rpger 20:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

more final battle issues
is it just me or is the end part of this dungeon extreamly hard? Axel
 * well if you survived the first levels it shouldn't be a problem. On a side note, try a signet of judgement spike, so fun seeing them all explode in one wave. Jaimes Laig Romarto 15:34, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I cannot figure out how to kill the boss? Anyone done this yet? I never found the crew either. Edit: Finally got it, how annoying, having to kill the boss like 12 times. Got another damn Onyx, what the hell?!Gandorf

i need help getting pass this place, any tips besides spending hours finding a smiting monk? J1j2j3 23:29, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

I've killed the first form like 50 times, but he just transforms before I can kill the second. Anyone know what to do? 72.143.165.87 00:44, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Basically you kill his first form, then his second then his first non-stop until his second form dies. I got him stuck against a wall and just attacked him forever as he kept changing forms. Probably went through about 10 switches before his second form died. If you let off at all his second form heals fast. Gandorf

Christ, but this place is "the fucking bullshit". (Wait till Hard Mode--I think they have really gone just too far, at least make the wizards actually pullable in less than 5 to 10 minutes and only one healer per group.) I guess all those complaints about Smiting Prayers being useless got answered.. sort of. =p Specced Dunk for it just so I could get to the damn Gadd quest. --Nunix 12:15, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, glad I spend 2h on that dungeon..for the Key boss on level 3 not to spawn....:S BTW it's not that difficult and I didn't use smite or any holy damage.--disarm 23:34, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I went to the beginning of level 3 to go back to level 2 and then come back up (to see if this time the boss would spawn).
 * As I'm approaching the level 2 portal theres a message 'a door has opened' (or something). I went back and the boss was there!!--disarm 23:43, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Yes i HATE IT, that didnt work and i just spent 2 hours, with 60 dp crawling! However, if you dont have holy dmg, taking Razah, with spirits and bodyblocking helps, especially in AI parties

Dunno if this adds anything but got a req9 Elemental Sword from the end chest (dunno of people knew it already but it appears to drop from end chests). Also didn't have any trouble with this dungeon except for some stupidities like flagging the heroes and the other player with her heroes on the place where the *key boss* would spawn. Really holy damage is the answer and it appeared that our build was also very strong versus other creatures (stronger than my usual build of 2W, 1MM, 2Mo, 3E) so I say my prayers of improving smiting prayers have been heared...now finish all those dungeons before they nerf it again >,< Shai Meliamne 05:30, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I used the team of two OwAS4YIPckqvjx6T9xrPk7B smiters, LoD monk with hex removal, Lina, Mhenlo, Cynn, Herta and me (run of the mill fire ele) and finished the dungeon within an hour and a half. Possible improvements: if you have another human, bring a tank, a set of healer/prot hero monks and an ele with Wards (vs ele, melee, harm, stability.. the whole shebam, Herta doesn't use them very well).  I also found that taking out the Skeleton Priests first made the rest of the mob extremely easy to kill.  Two Signet of Judgement + Castigation Signet spike did an okay job when timed properly (the knockdown prevented Skele Priest from using any spells).--Mootboot 12:58, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

very tough
It's definitely the hardest dungeon of the 13 I've solved so far, and I've had to chuck several Grails of Might and Armors of Salvation just to make it through. on the upside, the Skeleton Wizards are extremely aggressive, probably because of Shock, which they want to use almost regardless of distance, which makes them easy prey as soon as the monks turn back. A Splinter Weapon/barrage combo might work quite well, at least until you get to the final boss. Maybe take one Channeling Rit with Splinter Weapon and two Barrage/Interrupt Rangers to deliever a good opening strike, the rest of the team being standard to be able to finish the boss as well. I think I'll try that later. --Roland of Gilead (talk) 05:36, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

This is 'wtg' Take a smiter tank (Triple chop, cyclone axe, some more skills, Judge's insight at 6 prayers) Let him tank them, by bodyblocking them while the group stands in a slightly arced line between foes and tank. Snare the foes, deal dmg and heal, always works, as the tank is well known to deal over 200 dmg per skill, per brute, no way the clerics are up with that, the casters will come too, the tank retreats, and your other dmg dealers finish it, be sure to bring RC

skelatons resist pircing damage possibly having a smite monk carry judges insight if barraging or go judges barrager Dstroyer 666 12:25, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

HARD MODE -- Yeah running 3 heros + me as smite works great against the vast majority of what is in this dungeon. (Though found out better to take out the necros vs. priests. Priests stay in and die anyway but the necros seem to pull back away and then through death nova, etc...can take down the h/h quickly.)  Got through first level with all team of heros at some +Morale. However, the group of 5 enchanted axes in the room with the braziers have now brought the group to over -40DP! Maybe if any HUMANS would do this blasted dungeon would not be so tough but been trying to find a group for over two weeks and no one is doing this in HM -- forget about the guild they r really not interested. Hate to use a consumable when not sure will really do any good. Anyway, need this and one more to get the title so may just continue slogging through. Time is not the issue -- completion all that matters. UPDATE: used a consumable; made it to Fendi...wish I had not. Not sure if ANET decided this was not 'tough' enough because some uber guild groups whined but now when the soul spawns, it immediately runs the heck away!! Done that 4x now...leaving my group surrounded by the crewmen and their spirits. Couple of times managed to get off a knockdown and got the soul down to about half health; taken just over an hour to do that. Hmm...3 hours to get here; an hour to get half health; one powerstone, one armor of salvation...not sure how many candy canes.... lots of fun -- like getting a root canal with no happy juice. Second update: Make that 5x the soul has just 'run' away even though being attacked. 3rd Update: Soul did not run away this time -- it just 'appeared' way back at the very back of the room; could not have run to the soul before it disappeared; oh, and of course, the crewmen however DID appear right where Fendi died. Fourth update: Finally a little luck; Fendi died; soul appeared right in the flame jets AND the crewmen this time appeared way back in the back of the room. Reward for this: 2 onyx gemstones AND the pleasure of never having to do this dungeon ever ever again.
 * That's a lot of info! Ever considered creating an account? RT | Talk  20:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

"vanquished" the level, dungeon boss spawned
at first it seemed the dungeon boss had no intention to spawn and give me his key... but then i wandered around killing all the remaining patrols, came back in his chamber and he was there waiting for me. might be the solution? i completely vanquished the level and he suddenfly spawned. Menzies 08:53, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I had a similiar problem, but instead of killing the remaining patrols, I tried opening the lock without the key and the boss appeared.--Mysterial 09:22, 4 September 2007 (CDT)


 * What I found was that once I had liten all of the brazars it told me "a Passage Has Opened Up", I went back to the front door of level three to find a door open where there was some more mobs including a boss. Killed those and when I got back to the large room the boss has spawned.

Map
Removed the bug line that stated the map is wrong, because it was redundant (I explained how to get the dungeon key boss to spawn above). The map had been changed, I reverted that too. Finrod 17:37, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I somehow had to light all corner braziers in addition to the first three in the dark tunnel leading to Nindi on level 3 to make the passage even open up. But once I did it, the keyholder spawned and the hidden away goon, too. -- Yu 16:42, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

My Team For the Win
I had Stonehealer, Tahlkora, and Dunkora all set up as Smiting monks with the following build OwAT0GHD5xkwPQJVfXC1/jETAA, typically Dunkoro is runed as a healer, Tahlkora as a protector, and Stonehealer as a smiter so their att points where all over the place but I focused on the smite att and divine favor.

I used the following build OgMV8CrcZsl3ZxcY6ttyizjR1ITA

Completing the team were the following henchmen: (you will notice no Warriors/Tanks)
 * Mehnlo [healer]
 * Lina [prot]
 * Herta [earth]
 * Lo Sha [illusion]

I did not have any problems once I established the proper pulling procedure. Something like the following was repeated for each mob:


 * Place entire group (excluding myself) about 1.5x the radius of the agro bubble
 * Slowly approach the mob targeting the closet baddy and then fire a normal bow shot using no skills
 * Run like hell away from mob allowing them to focuse on you but keep distance
 * Keep pressing c as ypou lock onto the nearest baddy (it will change as they run) you will either find yourself attacking the wizards or brutts alone without any healers around.
 * Do this procedure a couple of times until all that is lest if the group is the healers. Then Kill Them too
 * Rise and Repeat.

The final Boss battle itself is done in very much the same way. Get him in a corner (he likes to run) and when he dies move the team away from the spirts and focus fire on the soul. After about 5 times of doing this you should have the soul dead.

Shards of orr for Warriors
Simply use this build:
 * Triple Chop, Cyclone Axe, Penetrating Blow, Disrupting Chop, Executioner's Strike, Dolyak Signet, Judge's Insight, Flail.
 * 16 axe mastery
 * 10 strength
 * 8 smiting prayers


 * Hammer version: Earth Shaker, Whirlwind Attack, Crude Swing, Dolyak Signet, Enraging Charge, Judge's Insight, Yeti Smash, Pulverizing Smash
 * 16 Hammer mastery
 * etc etc


 * Take RC Tahlkora
 * Take Attuned Healer Razah with recovery
 * Take Gwen with PD
 * Eve
 * Cynn
 * Mhenlo
 * Lo Sha

Tank DoA style (arch between you and foes, stand around corners, or at a large range) and you will be able to take all. This is the safest and fastest way for warriors.


 * Eh...Heart of Holy Flame > JI if that's your only Smiting skill. Costs less energy, casts quicker, lasts longer, and requires no attribute investment whatsoever. You don't get the Armor Penetration, but that's not a huge deal. Also, dunno why you'd ever use Penetrating Blow. Take Body Blow instead. Or Whirlwind Attack. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

hehe spammable attack ftw

Broken Door?
I tried to do this dungeon, but upon obtaining the key for the first level, I realize that the lock in which that key is supposed to go is behind a locked door - namely, the locked door that key is supposed to unlock. So there I am, unable to go forward because some stupid dwarven engineer put the lock on the wrong side of the door. Any suggestions? I do indeed have Lost Souls in my quest log. Is there something else that needs to be done, such as killing all mobs on the level, singing Yankee Doodle, or doing a Polka?139.147.159.223 16:26, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * This happened to me too. You started from Gadd's Encampment didn't you? What you have to do is go all the way to the beginning of the level where Crewmember Shandra is. Once you get close enough she starts following you. Once she starts following you, the door opens. That key is for another door behind the first, so don't forget to take it with you. --Macros 16:34, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This doesn't make any sense to me. I started from Gadd's Encampment but there is not possible way to get back to where Crewmember Shandra is. There is only a door that is shut.??

How to do it... comfortably.
Yes, you can run in a million times with 60DP and beat the boss at the end, but here's a good way to do it without having to do so.

What you need:

3 Smiters.

3 LOD monks.

A BR / Degen blood necro (life transfer is good)

An obsidian flesh tank or a melandrus resiliance ranger.



Smiters can have any good smite build: 2 of mine had Sig of Judgement for elite, the last had Ray of Judgement. Smite, bane signet are musts, any other holy damage spells help. Smite hex is good for 1 or 2 of them, and an extra condition removal cant hurt. Heroes work good here.

Menlho is default LOD. If henching, use Lina and Herta, though you will get killed a couple times. 3 LOD/Heal Party monks with good hex removal is great.

The ranger or tank basically needs to be set to survive, any fighting skills will only be used on the last boss. Ranger: Dryders defenses, Melandrus resilience and whatever else to add armor and blocking against stuff. Troll unguent and healing springs are good, as is dust trap. Interrupts are good for the boss. All party members should have rebirth. Tank: Obsidian flesh build works wonders. Knockdowns are good for the boss.

Necro is self explanatory: Keep energy on the smiters and healers, and degen the crap out of the boss and the monk skeles.



HOW IT WORKS: Flag heroes/hench so you can *just* see the agro on ur radar. (or otherwise as far away as u can). Hiding them behind a corner or obstruction is nice. Use the tank/ranger to run out and agro the baddies, have him or her put on the defenses and absorb blows for like, 10-15 sec while slowly bringing them back toward your team, this will use up the wizards and other casters tough AOES. Once u have them back, have the smiters kill the closest thing, they should be able to kill whatever is closest regardless of any enemy monks, as you should be far enough back that only 1 or 2 enemies lock on and chase while the rest fall away. Repeat process till all are dead, find new agro and continue.

On the boss, kill all the skeles once, then dont worry about them since the dont spawn weapons. Just focus on the boss, try to avoid fire traps and KEEP KNOCKING HIM DOWN. DONT LET HIM USE SPELLS ON YOU! INTERRUPT! Easy money. When the soul appears, flag party far away from them. The soul will chase you and you can face him alone. Keep repeating til its done. Good luck (a consumable to remove DP helps at the very end.)

First -- the skeles DO spawn with weapons -- at least they did when I did this in normal mode. Second,I hate this dungeon -- well hate them all actually. Doing this in HM and tried the above as a ranger....cannot survive long at all. Now, this is in Hard Mode so may be different. But had 600 HP and all the various skills but nothing blocks the degen or the wizards. Managed to get part way through the first level -- after two hours and getting wiped for about the 12 times -- just quit. Yes, had all three monks as smiter; they stunk. Tried 'pre setting' the first skill; they would run in AND half die b4 getting off the skill; tried pulling the mobs back to the h/h; worked though about every 3rd-4th time got a party wipe. Tried this as a 'barrage/judges insight' and was blind so much basically useless. Yes, can bring skills to get rid of blind; but by the time those work, half the party is dead or dying. Just three more dungeons to be done with them forever. May just skip this one.

How to win with just heroes and henchies
I ran three smiting monk heroes, spec'd OwUTMU3C15BYSwroErvLh6LTAA. For henchies I brought Mehnlo, Linna, Cyn and Talon. (Talon's feathered ass was a waste, by the way - bring someone else.) The smiters had ZERO mana issues and generally rampaged through enemy ranks like a pantheon of angry gods hopped up on PCP. Between the smiters spamming Signet of Judgment and Cynn's Meteor Showers the enemy was lucky to stay upright long enough to get a spell off. I myself, a warrior, was spec'd OQASEZKTqiXFkPTNLOkiYcwF. I'd run out ahead of the group and take all the hexes and conditions, throwing "I will survive!" as charged into the biggest concentration of mobs. The monks would then throw Smite Hex and Smite Condition on me, and in so doing, would turn everything in my vicinity to ash. If anything was left standing, I'd finish it off with Light of Deldrimor. I had absolutely NO difficulty taking on two or three undead groups at a time and most fights - even large fights - were over in less than 10 seconds. The last fight saw a few casualties, but I managed to kill the boss in seven incarnation. Easy peasy lemmon squeezie. :-) --Malagra 23:10, 12 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Malagra, I just used your Mo/Me build and rolled through this dungeon. I was on my Rit and found that I needed to go with a restoration build to help the hench monks out. My build ( OACiEykMlORtNOJNN5gBSKexAA ) was built around Spirit Light Weapon and some power heals for when wizards get too close to the party. I found that it worked well all the way to Fendi. We had 3 wipes fighting him, but that was not too much a problem since we had a good morale boost going in. Henchmen were: Mhenlo, Lina, Herta (for her wards and AoE), and Devona. Yep, Devona is entirely worthless for damage down there, but she makes a nice target for all the hexes and conditions as she runs into a mob. Just watch out for her chasing one monster into another mob. It happened twice to me and one of those times resulted in a partial wipe. Lastly, I've tried Gwen out as a Me/Mo signet Mesmer with a full artificer's set. She seems to work out nicely and the added armor is good. Her build is: OQNDAzwOPPAfgJBlUPt+uEZC . Thanks again for such a nice build. --67.101.108.97 16:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

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Malagra, have you even tested your build suggestion? Not quite "easy peasy lemmon squeezie" considering that SoJ and the other signets are just too slow even with MoI 48% faster recharge. Kind of long time to just "absorb" damage from lvl 24-28 mobs while you're waiting for the signets to charge back up again. I tried your build suggestion and it could barely handle 1 full sized group. Did not even have a chance with the undead groups containing both a cleric and a priest tossing around SoD like candy.
 * Yes, in fact the dungeon is on "farm status" for me - I've completed it half a dozen times now without issue, and using a close variant of the build I posted above. I'm a bit annoyed that you'd imply that I didn't do any testing, as I spoke of my results right there in the original post. It's like you're calling me a liar. I'm truly sorry the build didn't work for you, and you are, of course, well within your rights to give my advice a "thumbs down," but please lose the attitude.You'll note that my approach was heavily dependent on me, a human player, directing the focus of combat as a warrior. You wouldn't get anywhere near the same results playing as any other class. My apologies if I didn't make that clear.--Malagra 09:47, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I'm sure its not in hard mode that you have tested this build for the monks, they use very badly the SoJ, you could improve by blocking some of their skills but they are unable to run this build correctly. I have tested it with 3 smithing monk they are not able to kill something in the main first attack so not even worht to mention the following with the LONG recharge time.90.14.163.145 18:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're not understanding the build's concept. The damage doesn't come from the SoJ and Bane Sig, it's coming from the smite condition and smite hex, the undead wizard's heavy blinding and poison from the necromaster gives a huge amount of damage. Light of the Deldrimor is also VERY useful. Also for some reason I was noticing the monks didn't like to use the Mantra, but I wasn't paying full attention, so it may just have been me. If you are tanking properly and group the enemies around you, it is very easy, but no, it probably is not set up for HM, as it is heavy AoE. And as for using a different class Malagra, that doesn't really matter either. Any type of invinci-build will work as a replacement, I ran an N/D with Aura of The Lich, Mystic Regen, and a couple of other of derv enchants, aura of thorns or something. I did have a hard time with Fendi though. Good stuff! Mcsneaksneak 23:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

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Malagra, I just ran all heroes and finished it in 3 hours (I vanquished the place). I ran three smiting monk heroes, Build: OwUTMU3C15BYSwroErvLh6LTAA as you suggested, with Herta, Talon, Cynn, and Mhenlo. It was fantastic. As long as you kill the priests first, you are good to go. I personally used this Ranger/Monk build: OgMUYj7i1sSxESHkitSPGHGHHGlA. We did wipe a few times, but lost our dp in between. If you place your flag carefully on the bridge before the fire traps just before Fendi's chamber, you can pull him to the fire. It works well. It took about 6 or 7 rounds with Fendi. We wiped a few times there too, but it was good. Excellent suggestions! I vote we write Malagra's srategy on the article side. --AunweeOfTheNiaad 09:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

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I found Avatar of Melandru (with Eternal Aura) and the smite monks extremely useful... Mel Derv: OgCjkurI7SBYXgiX9gsXyXlXYcA Judge's Smiter: OwAT443A5Bva9p+mkFS13lgGBA SoJ Smiter: OwAT443A5Bva9p+GE1Y13lgGBA SoH Smiter: OwAT443A5Bva95Hmk5R13lgGBA Plus Mhenlo, Lina, the interupt henchie, and Cynn. --Dragonaxe 02:54, 17 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Eternal Aura! Great idea! If only I could cram on to a hero. :-)--Malagra 09:50, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

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If you are still having problems with this dungeon skip the smite nonsense and run this instead. Avatar of Balthazar Dervish w/ Fleeting Stability, RC Prot monk to soak up conditions, LoD to soak up damage, SS w/ BR to deal damage and support, finally the most important piece of the puzzle...Deep Freeze/Maelstrom water ele using Mindbender targetting the priest or cleric in the group with a called target followed up by a SH/MS fire ele nuking the frozen and terminally interrupted targets. The other 2 slots you can take whatever you want but this works all the time every time. If the eles drop their spells perfectly they'll never lay a finger on your back line and no smite crap involved.

***
Most groups are killable with just E or /E and three Mo or /Mo heroes. Take Glyph of Sacrifice and Earthquake (Dragon's Stomp too to avoid waiting for Earthquake to recharge) and 12 Earth Magic, the three monk heroes should have Ray of Judgement and 12 in Smiting. Target something in the middle of a group and, while just out of their aggro range, click on the three hero's RoJ's. Then use Glyph of Sacrifice and - while holding down Left-Control to call - Earthquake. This will wipe any close-together undead group (as most of them are). That leaves five slots for you, seven slots on your heroes, and four henchmen to deal with everything else. Like anything you miss with the RoJ nuke, things with a lot of health, and things that aren't undead (like Enchanted weapons). So I added some stuff for everything else, lots of interrupts, hex management, condition management. Got all the way to the end and just kept getting repeatedly party wiped after a fairly good start. It became pointless at about 40% DP. I had the Soul to about half-health when I /resign'ed.--Octavia 15:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

***
Malagra's set-up worked just fine with only minor modifications for a 55 SV. Though Fendi's Chilblains was obnoxious... --Shattered Self 03:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Hidden Items
There's a Dwarven ghost near the end of level one and and a hidden treasure at the entrance to the boss chamber [Next to the flame traps] Talos935 08:00, 18 September 2007 (CDT)

Not too Bad with Two Humans and 4 Smiters
Use builds similar to above, except use Arcane Echo and Ray of Judgment, find a cleric/priest or wizard in the middle of the pack--usually almost entire group goes down at once (except the Brutes, but they are usually very low in health). Only the End 'Boss' and Brigands are pains, but end Boss can be pulled near and into the Fire Traps. You will have to control the Echo-Ray chain on heroes. We humans were a hammer warrior and ranger, and the other two heroes were a heal monk and (mostly) protection monk, one with Spotless Mind and the other with Spotless Soul.

Skill Captures
Of the 2 elites are impossible. You get a body not found type message after the first kill of Nin or any other kill and after you've killed the Spirit form you get the same message. So you can not capture the 2 skills here.
 * That's because he's not a boss. I won't generalize since I haven't finished every dungeon yet, but it seems none of the end boss creatures in a dungeon are actual "boss" characters.  The lack of an aura should be a giveaway though. -Gildan Bladeborn 10:08, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

beat this ^%#*(! dungeon once

 * and not going back. what a hole. screw the ^hat that made this zone.Palewook 18:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Anet
Next time, take time to check your....."stuff". yeaaa --Kendo Bo Master 17:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

something amusing
The guild I'm in, the Shards of Orr (SoO), is the very same name as this one.

Talk about conincidence. Luke Danger 02:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure "coincidence" is the word I'd use for that.

fire dmg
"The monsters in the dungeon are almost all undead; therefore holy damage as well as fire damage are very useful." That's not entirely true because all skeletons/zombie caster have 70 armor against all kinds of elemental dmg, they aren't weak aganst fire dmg. 3 November 2007

Second form not at full life?
Just did the dungeon with a guildie... In his "fleshy" form Fendi regenerates pretty fast, but his soul form appeared with exactly the same amount of life as last time. So we killed Fendi's corporal form about 5 times, after that his soul was depleted, too. Possibly tactics: Kill the fleshy form, concentrate on killing the crewmen then, retreat if neccessary... We ran 2 humans (A+N)+4 Smiter Heroes+Healer Hero+Protection monk hero. The Necro complained about the foes "dying too fast to place an SS on them!" :) Smiting Prayers ftw here! Some of the opponents are not undead though - e.g. Chained Clerics.--Jorx 00:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He's not supposed to be at full life. To beat him you have to kill the ghost form. That would be kinda hard if he regenerated while you couldn't damage him. --Macros 01:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Map Dots
What happened to all the maps having red dots? I thought they helped show the shortest routes and such. Zeek Aran 14:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Beat the dungeon in HM. AND WE WERE ONLY 4 PPL
We used the 3 man DoA farming strategy and added a bip + BR necro for energy.

Up till Fendi it worked great: same tactics as DoA 3 man farming used. But Fendi was a whole different story.

We used a lot of sweets to buff us up before the fight and about 1-2h till we got to Fendi he was finally dead!!!! Go team!!!

I really don't see any point in doing a dungeon with fewer people than normal. The end chest drops items for each party member, the reputation points are also individual, and the "normal" monster drops aren't really worth much. Well, there is the DIessa chalice and all but.. I dunno. I'd rather just take 8 ppl and finish the HM orr in 45 mins. I find it so much more fun. Eh. Matter of taste i guess. NightAngel 13:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

How to sneak in Shard of orr as a sin and not die trying it
Well i have been trying this but my sin cant handle it T_T .i was thinking in use the caster sin build but it will be effective? or any sin here that have an idea to finish this.


 * Perhaps get a decent team, perhaps a preprot. Not shadowstepping in, but rather walking towards em, helps. If you shadowstep, your monks often go outside cast range, and you probably get spiked to death. Happy rushing! --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 17:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Critical barrage A/R with a bow would keep you out of danger. Keep in mind the traditional build was meant to spread bleeding and that mostly wouldn't work on the unfleshy mobs.  you'd still get in the critical damage though.

Go as Critical Barrager and have a smite monk slap Judge's Insight on you. The damage numbers are amazing. Take skills like "I am the strongest" and ebon standard of honor for even prettier yellow numbers. :) NightAngel 13:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Beat the dungeon in HM
I, a mesmer, and 3 heroes were running smite at level 12 (nobody has a smite rune). The 4 henchmen were monks, the ele and a warrior. Therefore this dungeon can be beat with heroes and henchmen. You don't need to have 6 monks running smite to beat this dungeon. It took me about 2 hours (and 2 powerstones for the boss). Icyangel Strawberry 21:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

600/Smite
Used the same build for the Cathedral of Flames HM Runs. I tried it here..on HM...and it worked! Took about 2 and half hours..and I died twice on Fendi, but I still got 'em. I have a screeny if ya want proof. Rain of a Thousand Flames 12:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya, easy enough with 600/smite. did it with heros. Pretty easy until Fendi, save PS and watch for Chilblains, cast right after... i had another monk with SB to send me in. Slingshot John 06:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

There's Baloney and There's Bologna
This dungeon ain't all that, but when you go through one time and can't advance because not enough undead bones (coming from Arbor Bay), and then you come through another time from Gadd's and get the bones but the key is not where it shows on the map, that's real bologna. ANet this bites. Yes, I went all the way back to the beginning to look for Shandra Whatshername the NPC.

Breeze Aura 12-8-07

Problem with using RC?
I accidently went in with Devona instead of Mhenlo and only had Lina and a Restore Condition Hero Monk as healers. Turns out the dungeon was still doable though ^^u. I figure the reason I managed to kill Fendi Nin (with about 5 party wipes at him alone) was that Devona and I kept taking turns to knock him down and interrupted many of his spells.

I was an Obsidian Tank, and I had 2 Ray of Judgments (Monk Hero and Ele Hero), 1 Restore Condition Monk Hero, Fire Ele Hench, Earth Ele Hench, Prot Monk Hench, Hammer War hench. I'm not sure if it was a skillbar problem but my RC Hero Monk often refused to use her Restore Condition to heal when she had enough mana and it was the left-most skill on her bar. After some fights, party members close to death and degenning from poison often died because she waited to get 10 mana to use Spirit Bond or Prot Spirit to heal them instead >_>.


 * That's just hero AI. If I were you'd I'd just force em to use RC ....... I think they usually only use it when the target has more than 1 Condition (2 or more, thus) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 11:45, 26 December 2007 (UTC) <- Thanks for the info =)

Just a bit more on ending DP. Mine was 53% when Fendi died and my heroes had between 23-35 dp each. Henches died about as often as my heroes so I figure they should have had about the same DP. So DP removal items don't have to be used. If you can tackle one group of undead at a time you should be fine fighting the last boss.

3rd level
I'm fairly certain the third level is the same as the first level of Arachni's Haunt. -- Shadow crest   00:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Beat in HM using just Heroes/Henches
WOW, this sucks in HM, but it IS possible. I'm a Necro, took Glyph of Essence, Earthquake, Pain Inverter, Light of Deldimoor, Finish Him, Ward of Stability 3 Monks Heroes: Ray of Judgement, other smites, etc, etc, Divine Healing Strategy: Find a guy in the center of the mob. Stay out of aggro, then pre-click the Ray of Judgement on all the heroes bars. Cast Glyph, then do a CRTL cast with Earthquake. It will cast instantly, causing a group knockdown, and your 3 smiters will HOPEFULLY hit the same target, causing an AOE death ball. This will work on most mobs in these dungeons, but sometimes it will fail an you will probably die. I found that I was able to keep morale up most of the time just from kills. I didn't need any Powerstones until the last boss, which was a rough fight - mostly a lot of pulling with a longbow and killing the archers one at a time. Then pull him to the flamethrowers and if you're lucky his minions won't spawn next to him, giving you a few seconds of damage (i.e. pain inverter, smites, etc.) Good luck, I intend to NEVER do this dungeon again.

drops
I'm getting lots of dyes (including 2 Black ones) in this dungeon, even more when 600/smite soloing, stacks of bones and Undead bones, usual undead drops (sephis axes, breastplates, dead staves, dead bows) mostly blue and white, ocassionaly gold, interestingly, purple drops are very rare to me :) In 4 runs, no green drop from end chest, 1 onyx, 3 golds ( r12 wooden longbow after 2 hours in this dungeon!!), about 5k from normal drops each run. Shelf

600/Smite
how did you kill fendi in hm please? i'm running out of energy when fighting him and if i stay in fire jets for energy and healing, i get killed by spike from damned crewmen or by chllbains disenchantment, which i cant counter by SB because i havent energy x)
 * I just did Shards with 600/smite and a QZ ranger and a life barrier hero to protect my Smiter from Reversal of Damage. The 600 (me) was using normal 600 build with "I Am Unstoppable!" with Slayer of Wurms (5) for the KD protection vs. Shock and Mantra of Resolve to protect against archers interrupts. Took me almost 2 hours to 600/smite Shards of Orr in Hard Mode. First 2 lvls took about 50 minutes to do, Fendi took almost 45 minutes to kill. So it is possible to do this dungeon with 600/smite, you just need a bit of patience and experience as a 600. --Arthas 01:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * you could (if you are ina large group) bring the 600 and smite along with 4 ursans and 2 hb monks who only help at the end since it seems like teh boss is the main difficulty

never again
This place sucks so bad, I am never setting a foot in it again. Luckily you can reach Gadds via Battledepths->HoS->Bogroot->Sparkfly swamp and the other Asura places via the route through Vloxen... May be a detour but having to puzzle with builds forever to get something to finally slightly work to so much as PASS THROUGH this area.... Is too time consuming. I rather run the other way. So long Orr glad you blew up and sank :P PuppetX 11:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * if you are just aiming to get to Gadd's Encampment, i suggest running through it with a Shadow Form build. Thats what i did after having tried to get there by just fighting. You don't have to fight your way through this place to get to Encampment. --Arthas 01:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Its no fun at all doing
This dungeon really isn't fun doing, its to damn hard. Would really like to see a change with this dungeon. Like you only have to fight Soul instead of 2 bosses. --Arthas 16:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

WTF
Took 5 Smite monks, 3 healing monks. Blazed through hm in 40 mins. Got to fendi's place. But theres no fendi...this dungeon is bugged.
 * There's already a note on the page about it. --Shadowcrest 02:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh my lord that is just hilarious. I've just gone through a few entertaining failures of this run, I cannot imagine getting all the way to the end and not even seeing the boss.  Thanks for the heads up! --69.247.71.81 01:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget about the Rangers...
I've run through this dungeon a bunch of times using smite-heavy builds similar to what's described above. However, I've also found it useful to swap out one of the smite monks with a barrage ranger with heart of holy flame. You get 30 seconds of holy damage for zero expenditure of attribute points and can deal a massive amount of damage. Add a deathbane bow for even more damage. And great dwarf weapon for KD potential.

You probably do a little less damage than a straight smite monk, but I think this approach leads to a more balanced team. And the interrupts can come in pretty handy against Fendi... --Knodel 12:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My tip: Bring Antidote Signet here, if you're playing Ranger. Constant blind covered with disease and poison annoyed me to death (literally). J Striker 12:19, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol. Very amusing :) You seem to be absolutely in love with yourself. "knockdown orgy" is too funny. And all that for an amazing success at Nooby Mode Shards! You just have to love it. Narcissim is indeed the truest form of unconditional love. 189.33.169.230 14:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Havoc, dont remove comments. you can talk to them using a talkpage like any other user. Just click on their link then discussion. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] (P)/(T) 18:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * We said nothing about it being alright. All we said was that you arn't allowed to remove comments. As far as I can see he didn't attack you in much of a way. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] (P)/(T) 19:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever happened to Do not make personal attacks anywhere in GuildWiki. Comment on content, not on the contributor. I guess that little rule doesn't count for everybody though....
 * Nor does that other little rule "sign your posts on talk pages." --War Pig5 04:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"Dont Trip"
Helps a lot on a paragon in this dungeon. I realize its only 5 sec max but it does so much. (75.134.131.172 00:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC))

Don't Bother!!
All these and other skills are useless cos A#net just had to come up with ueber dungeons: this, the Anvil of ... and Frostmaws suck major big time and basically r a complete waste of time for the few poxy points u gain. Spell Breaker, Remove hex, Holy Veil whatever just don't cover it ..... SUX !!! Kelfer 19:21, 7th June 2008 (CET)
 * lol nerd rage 75.33.219.182 18:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The value of these dungeons is deceiving because of the massive points you can get from completing them and turning in a completed Master Dungeon Guide.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  04:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * People who call others nerds should get an in-game slap (if only that were possible :-). To put things into perspective a bit: You gain just as many points / XP by doing 8 visits to Sorrow's Furnace as you would for the Master Dungeon Guide. OK you don't get EotN points, but who cares about them, and I guarantee you'll get more money from 2 decent drops in Sorrow's than for all the stuff I've got out of end chests in EotN... say no more Klefer 10:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You do realise that ppl who do these dungeons do care about the EotN points right? nobody farms xp... and drops? you're comparing a single end chest with 2 drops from the whole of SF? Right.... 118.101.57.127 15:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's as maybe w. the EotN points, afaic they aren't worth anything, and the comparison is not between a single end chest and Sorrow's. Ipso facto ALL of the dungeons in EotN haven't produced any single item worth 5K or over for me. Quote: "Nobody Farms Xp and Drops" Huh? How do you get to be a Survivor w/out XP farming ???? Klefer 14:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Playing the game helps to accumulate XP. You don't need to grind a thing for Survivor. So anyways, the EotN reputation points are worth a thing (linked skills) and the EotN Master points are a title, thus they're worth a thing. Dungeon End Chests have granted me one runic Blade, which I sold for 100k+41 ectos (sure, they aint as much nowadays, but I guess I was lucky). It's too random to say "SF is better" because you happened to get über crap. Besides, SF never yielded me anything of worth. The Greens are unsellable, bar Drago's Flatbow on rare occasions, and the end chests are blah. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There are still nice items from SF. Drago's Flatbow, most of the Elementalist ones, some of the unreplicable greens, Bortak's Bone Claw (iirc)... but yeah, since the chests only spawn grapes, it's meh. On the other hand, you can always get multiples if you are with H/H, and a stack of grapes is still worth some money (hopefully). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Sin Build with Heros/Hench
So I just finally completed this with my assassin and just heros and hench. I had myself with Owpk0pf4ouiUZm/jYGpYN44F71ZG, which worked AMAZINGLY well. I then used the ss and restoration necros from the triple necro on pvx and OwAT443A5Bva95Hmk5R13lgGBA on Tahlkora. I also had Lina, Mhenlo, Herta, and Cynn for hench. This setup utterly destroyed singular groups with one or two deaths here or there. We didn't wipe once until we got to Fendi and I didn't die until we got there either. With Fendi, I noticed that the spirits that accompany Fendi in his soul form seem to spawn where the archers were before killing the corporeal Fendi or where the archers died before. So my strategy was to either pull Fendi as far out of that group as I could, or if I couldn't pull, I killed the archers near each other and then pulled Fendi. It took us quite awhile to kill the boss so that strategy could use some work, but eventually we did. This was in NM BTW. Hope this helps. 69.54.17.127 04:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

ALL the Braziers?
It seems you don't need to light the central braziers on the 3rd level. The Cursed with the key spawned when I just lit the 4 in the corners of the room.--User:Parson Brown 16:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Killing Fendi
If you lure Fendi over the bridge the crewmen don't spawn where he dies, giving you time to damage his soul form before it tries to run back over the bridge. It may even be possible to body-block the soul form on the bridge.--Broakham 19:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

My first attempt
Me and my friend (both rangers) he was using melandrus shot build (kinda worthless). I was using a scythe build with wounding strike, and heart of holy flame. we had 1 SH sousuke and 1 SF sousuke, with 2 N/Rt healers, one WoH monk, and one SS. Let me say it was very easy. I thought it would be much of a challenge. My holy damage ripped through the mobs, along with the nukers.Gorbachev116 05:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Throwing Judge's Insight, Heart of Holy Flame, or Avatar of Balthazar onto the melee (especially scythes) or Barragers is generally a good idea --Gimmethegepgun 05:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It made the dungeon absolute cake. Just be sure to bring lots of condition removal, antidote signet ftw. Still, though, the boss fight put up a challenge. I didn't wipe but almost.Gorbachev116 04:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Any tips for HM?
I am a sin with 3 smite monks and henchmen. Any ideas on what skills I should use and what templates to set my smiters as? Because I'm lucky if I can get passed the first group.. Hotaru Ishinaru 12:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Running this dungeon
If I'm running this dungeon and I want to map travel with the Asuran Gate in Gadd's Encampment, must all the party members have it unlocked? What does the article mean by "unlocked" anyway? Shinomori 14:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It just means that all members must have the outpost Gadd's Encampment to be able to enter from that outpost. It's sort of redundant, really. I wouldn't recommend entering from Gadd's anyway, by the way, since you have to travel back to the entrance anyway to get Shandra and you'll end up fighting 2-3 extra mobs besides. It's only useful if you don't have anyone who can run through Arbor Bay. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have someone to run you through Arbor Bay, you're missing out on one spot (maybe half a spot, depends), thus making it harder for you. If you can get through the dungeon, a few extra mobs only mean more drops. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I know I'm very late to the party, but he's "running" this dungeon A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * What's your point? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:29, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That it's irrelevant what build the rest of the party has, excluding a person to run to the dungeon, and it's not really "missing out on one spot that makes the dungeon harder".--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 21:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Viper... 600, Smiter, Ranger, Optional X 5.
 * What was your point? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:54, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * 600, smite, ranger, A/E runner, optional x4. Runner usually doesn't pay. Thus, less profit, but a faster run.
 * I probably altered my first post above, because it doesn't make sense at all (or I forgot what I meant back then).
 * And "I know I'm very late to the party, but he's "running" this dungeon" still doesn't make sense to me. Of course he is. So what? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  10:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Seperate points are seperate. And points, too.
 * I know I'm very late to the party - the conversation was old and dead.
 * he's "running" this dungeon - when you're doing a dungeon in a team build that requires *three* slots and you have *eight* slots available, your comment "you're missing out on one spot (maybe half a spot, depends)" quickly becomes redundant. You do have *five* slots that aren't needed, *only* having half the team redundant isn't exactly an appreciable drawback.
 * Basically, my point is 3 < 8. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You're completely misunderstanding everything, again. Fuck it. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  11:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see how he (or anyone) should understand it then. You talked about harder, AFK and me pointed out that it doesn't matter as it's a 3-man running build. How is that misunderstanding?--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 12:21, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have the time and / or inclination to dig through the History of the Page, so if you changed it or not will get lost in the passage of time have to wait until Mendel comes along and sorts everything out just like he always does.
 * You said it would be harder, El Nazgir and I disagreed on the basis that you just maintain enchantments and create the odd spirit Nature Ritual, but you're still creating spirits
 * Yes, that's true that permas invariably don't pay I certainly never do, just as I never once asked a perma to pay but harder ≠ faster.
 * You expressed bewilderment towards my point, so I clarified it, even though it was my original point we were discussing, which had dropped in significance since you came along and said you in fact meant faster not harder.
 * When I tried to clarify it for you ("still doesn't make sense to me") you simply got irritated, and made a comment that frankly I didn't exactly appreciate. You may have mistaken me responding to your message as you hinted you wanted me to, as me pressing a point that I had realized was no longer relevant, obviously I can't say for sure what you understood by it.
 * I did try poking you on your talk page to come back over here to us, but that hasn't gone well.
 * On a final note, I'll say two things.
 * 1) Most groups do sort of expect a perma, it is the norm, and they don't appreciate the runs taking longer.
 * 2) Personally, this is a matter of preferance, of course, I'd prefer to get paid 8k less, get paid more often, and increase my chances of getting a BDS. I imagine most people would agree with me here. Not so sure you would, however. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Invisible ally/enemy?
when you enter fendi's room you can see something invisibles health slowly draining from a fire trap.96.25.96.218 04:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Might be related to the time when i first entered Fendi's room i saw Fendi's Soul appear for a short time.TwilightRhapsody 05:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

H/H
I found two very strong methods for making this dungeon MUCH easier, even with just H & H! As said before, equip LOD and have at least two holy damage heroes as holy damage is doubled against undead. I ran with Zhed (earth ele/monk - sandstorm), Ogden and Tahlkora (smiting - holy damage and remove conditions). Then I ran Herta, Cynn, Lina and Mhenlo. I was a ranger / fire elementalist (nuke) with barrage and disrupting accuracy for bosses. Make sure to load foe specific elemental attacks, multiple foe attacks are much better. Ok..here are the two methods which allowed me to do level 1 and level 3 (but not Fendi) in about 20 minutes each with no H/H deaths at all. For UNDEAD groups, just run right into the center of them and let loose LOD. Then nuke em with your best fire / earth spells (Herta also has sandstorm). I usually could not get off my second fire spell before all wizards/ priests, etc were dead. This beat the time wasting "draw a few off" method hands down. Just get them all grouped together and then nuke em! I didnt try this method on the level 2 graveyard group or on enchanted weapon groups. For Fendi..here is the scoop. You might have to draw him back to the bridge on your second run, but then he generally stays close to the bridge. Just approach slow and flag your group about a quarter way up the bridge. Then use a ranger and continue up to just shy of halfway. Draw in any archers in ones or twos. Your H/H will assist if the archers come up to you. Then draw in Fendi. I found that Fendi will stop about one quarter up and then nuke you. Your monks should have no problem keeping you up and just take Fendi down over two minutes or so. GET READY! As soon as he dies and spawns as his soul form then unflag your henchies, control click on Soul of Fendi and nuke him to the max. . Dont worry about death penalty because it wont matter. Even at full party DP I was able to take him out in about five cycles. Mainebill