User talk:LordBiro

Decision
I saw that you were concerned about User:Timir111. I banned him for the continuation of blanking pages, lastly being my user page. Somehow, he found out I was the one that deleted an old tagged build and had to blank my page in order to ask me why I needed to delete the build.

This user wasn't as naive as he lead on, I am guessing. How he knew enough to know the build was deleted, then sift through the delete logs to find out I was the one who deleted it, yet still does not have the knowledge to know not to blank or overwrite a whole article. Something didn't add up. -Gares 15:54, 30 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I've been monitoring his contributions recently and waiting for him to blank things again. Whether he is naive or not, he's blanked a lot of pages and I guess he's read the warning... since he blanked that too. He deserved to be banned and you did the right thing Gares :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:57, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

Response to your comment on User talk:Gravewit
This is in response to this comment. I'm keeping this out of Gravewit's page as it's off topic there.

I'm not sure if you saw the full Stabber saga, but you are wrong about him not causing harm to the wiki. Long before his sockpuppetry was discovered he had already received several warnings (including an official arbitration) about his behavior on the wiki. Read what Tanaric wrote in the arbitration: he was fully in agreement with me about Stabber's behavior and contributions to the wiki. Stabber was more than a pain in the ass: he was actively harming the wiki with his drama. After his sockpuppetry was discovered, it was found that he had been using his socks to stage fights and dramatic exits without taking responsibility, and, in one instance, to double vote. His "Deldda Kcarc" identity was used almost solely to fight with Karlos and vandalize the wiki over a period of several days, leading to a series of blocks. All the while his "Stabber" persona kept up a demure front to attract sympathy. All this is well documented on the wiki. It's a completely unbelievable tale. You are maybe one of three people to still claim that his sockpuppetry was not proven. Also, if you read Xeeron's link, the community consensus about sock puppetry is clear. You are again a holdout here as nearly everyone wants socks banned on sight.

Now, I've heard it said several times that Stabber's negatives were balanced by his contributions to the wiki, but that is a ridiculous equivocation. I myself was initially of that opinion, but then I spent an entire day going through Stabber's edit history, and the only conclusion I could reach was that this user was far too big for his breeches and a net negative to the wiki. And this was before his sockpuppetry was exposed. I know that everyone now wants to make this issue about me, and that's fine, but please don't exalt Stabber in the same breath that you damn me. 64.78.164.226 (a.k.a. F G) 64.78.164.226 10:19, 20 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks FG. I've read this all before, both in your posts, in other people's posts and in the arbitration.


 * I appreciate that I am very likely in the minority with my view on Stabber. I think that she was a positive influence on the wiki, for the most part, and of course you are welcome to disagree with me. That's not to say I was a fan of Stabber, we butted heads occasionally, but she argued her point reasonably and I believed (and still believe) that her intention was only ever to accurately document Guild Wars as she thought best.


 * I really don't want to further discuss this issue here. I am aware of the facts and also of the speculation and my mind is made up.


 * I am also aware that I am in the minority with regard to my view on sockpuppets, but I think my point of view is entirely reasonable. If you don't agree with me then that's fine. I posted my views on Gravewit's talk page to reiterate that I personally see no immediate need, at present, to ban sock puppets or open proxies.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 11:51, 20 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Just for the record, I want to reply to this sentence specifically: "I know that everyone now wants to make this issue about me, and that's fine, but please don't exalt Stabber in the same breath that you damn me." I don't know if this was aimed at me specifically, but when have I ever damned you? Or even spoken about you? I certainly don't want to make this issue "about you".  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 12:01, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

Deleting unused images
I've been submitting lists of images needing deletion to Skuld earlier, but I just realised that currently there are 1197 unused images in the wiki and it would be a pain to go through them AND list the onews needing deletion for someone else to delete. Could we agree on a time some day this week when you temporarily make me an admin so I can use the deletion ability myself when I go through the list? Then you could demote me again after I'm ready with the task.

On a side note: You might want to archive this talk page. ;) -- (talk) 11:38, 27 November 2006 (CST)


 * Hey Gem :) I'll get round to archiving this at some point.


 * I am a little hesitant to give temporary sysop powers. There are two reasons for this. I'm not aware of this being done before on the GuildWiki and I think that granting you temporary sysop priveleges sets a precedent that would be undemocratic (harking back to the time before GW:RFA when Gravewit decided who the sysops would be).


 * I would rather discuss the second reason with you off-wiki before I post it here, as I might not have all the facts.


 * I would appreciate any other contributors input on the subject of temporary sysop privileges. :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:54, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * If Gem have it, I want it to. ;)  I think the reason you gave about precedent is a good one and I don't see the need for more reason not to give people temporary Sysop.  Why grant it to one and not the other would be a pain to choose too.&mdash; + A  ratak  ¦  19:12, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * Agreed. Although, I have no problem with someone starting a GW:RFA for Gem to put in place the framework to eventually grant him permanent access when it's decided more admins are needed. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:19, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * The category will be cleaned out before next Sunday. I have to ask, though, where Biro found the original of the Image:Warrior-pink.gif, considering I lack the mental capacity to figure out how to change it's color. I can remember the transitive closure procedure, but I can't change pink to black (sad really). &mdash; Gares 20:42, 27 November 2006 (CST)


 * No problem then if someone else is going to do the job. Honestly I'm really impressed that you took it like you did LordBiro, just as I had imagined. :) What comes to an RFA for me, I don't think I'm a suitable person to be an admin by the current guidelines (atleast now that I'm not too active) and I would probably reject the nomination. The only reason why I even dared to ask was the reason that I don't see adminship as any kind of status thing but only as a bunch of extra tools. (which I have really often hoped for as they would have eased my work here a lot)
 * Gares: I'll be checking the category on Sunday. ;) Please don't remove anything which might be usefull later on. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 02:19, 28 November 2006 (CST)


 * Gah! I knew that you were "back" Gem and I actually had everything ready to go to nominate you but got called out of the office and when I came back you'd written this. I think you'd make a great admin, maybe next time I see you online I'll bring it up.


 * On a related note, our list of active admins has taken a bit of a hit of late. Eightyfour-onesevenfive's contributions have been a bit sporadic over the last month, PanSola doesn't have as much time for the GWiki as previously and Tanaric has retired recently. With Xeeron also calling it quits not long ago I figured that it'd be the perfect time to nominate Gem. It'd be nice to have someone else join me in limbo! --Xasxas256 03:21, 28 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well, feel free to nominate me if you think I'm worth it, but you better convince me too. :) I really would like the admin tools so I could better help the wiki, but I fear I would also get more responsibility on stuf that I don't like to interfere with. I need to think about it more if someone really nominates me at some point. Untill that I'll just keep cotributing as usual. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 12:16, 28 November 2006 (CST)

Settle this dispute please!
It's between me, another person who agrees with me, Skuld and another person. Skuld has voted without testing demanding to know why it's better than another build to which I argue that he has no foundations on his argument since it sounds like he hasn't even looked at it in-game. The other person voted on this PvE build after testing it in PvP. I accuse them of 1) not testing it 2) changing it from tested to untested after the votes had already come through. Both these things are against the regulations of this site, I feel skuld may have an ego problem. The page with the proof: Build_talk:A/D_Disciple_of_Death. Yours, Sir On The Edge 16:44, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * Hi Sir On The Edge, I've been reading through the talk page of the build in question, but unfortunately it's very late here (in the UK). I will continue reading it tomorrow morning and post my thoughts on this dispute then.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 19:23, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * I've found what you asked for and Have added it to the Disciple of Death page. G-night. Sir On The Edge 17:11, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Explorable Areas
I'd like your opinion for a S&F template I created for Explorable Areas. Thanks. &mdash; Gares 15:36, 6 December 2006 (CST)

New builds policy proposal
Hi. As somebody who has made several contributions to the discussion at GuildWiki talk:No Original Builds I just wanted to draw your attention to an alternative policy I've proposed at Build Split. If you've got the time I'd be very grateful if you could give it a read through and leave any comment you may have on its talk page. Thanks! --NieA7 10:42, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Hi
If you could take a peek at User:Bexor/Collectors and leave any feedback on the discussion page there, I would appreciate it. :) - BeXoR   07:02, 22 December 2006 (CST)


 * I've had a look, looks good! I will comment there though :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 11:05, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Interactive map project
Hi LordBiro, you sent me an email regarding the project a couple weeks ago, though I haven't heard back from you since. Just wanted to drop you note here in case my response disappeared in some junk mail folder ;) DeepSearch 07:05, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Hey DeepSearch, sorry about not replying :) I'm a bit busy at the moment, as explained above! I'll try to hunt for your email and reply! If I can't find it I'll just post on your talk page ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 09:22, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Could you make a "Silver Armor" icon?
People keep messing it up in articles and builds. Occasionally, you see Image:Silver Armor.jpg being uploaded. Do you think an icon that somehow communicates "No, you got the skill name wrong. It really is Sliver" would be a good idea? If so, could you make one. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 04:09, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * It would just be easier to do a search for "silver armor" and correct it. We should be fixing errors, not compensating for them. - BeXoR  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 08:58, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Couldn't it just redirect? --Xasxas256 09:15, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * The intent was to yell at them jolily when they look at their build bar, thus getting people to self-fix. Bad idea? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 09:27, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * How about redirecting [[Image:Silver Armor.jpg]] to Silver Armor and locking the image page? &mdash; Skuld 09:29, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * That would be logical and easy to do, yes. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 09:49, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Or what about redirecting to a userbox in the Humour category that says "this user can't spell Sliver." Eh!? Eh!? :P No seriously Skuld's idea sounds good. --Xasxas256 09:30, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * HAHAHAHA BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!--Midnight08 09:36, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * To Bexor, true, except the search function looks at Silver and armor searhes for each, so for each correction you have to look through about 100 mentions of silver dye and various armors=P (i just tested by adding the term to my talk and searching with user talk included, i had the dye articles, the scams article, this article, and a ton others, but no other mention than this 1 on LB's talk of "Silver Armor" (i searched w + w/o "'s). --Midnight08 09:42, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * In over a year here it's finally happened, not just my best idea ever or the best idea on the GuildWiki, I came up with the BEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!! I should hang up my boots and retire, I've done everything I can now! :P --Xasxas256 09:46, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'll just add the 'What links here' for Silver armor on my 'pages under surveillance'. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:27, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * Someone should make you a best idea ever user box Xasxas :P If they haven't already, I shoul dprobably have a look first.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 06:04, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Please review
User:Gares Redstorm/Action

Hopefully users will notice this as I can't possibly post on everyone's talk page. &mdash; Gares 18:23, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * Lol :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 06:04, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Asset
You, sir, are an asset. When I read what you write about usability, contextualization, and use of color, I wish you worked at my software company. Good show. -- Oblio (talk) 15:43, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * Wow, er... Thank you so much. This is the nicest thing anyone has said to me on the wiki (I think). I really appreciate it!  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 20:58, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Gem's RFA
I suppose you didn't get my message in irc. (I believe I left it almost 2 weeks ago) Just wanting to make sure as I hate not being replied to. :) -- (talk) 05:32, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * I didn't Gem, sorry! If you want to contact me off-wiki IRC is probably not the best way at the moment. I would recommend emailing me. :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 11:22, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Okay, thanks. It wasn't too important, I just wanted to know if you got the message. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:27, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Well I didn't get it. I would have tried my best to reply if I had, because I also hate it when people don't reply ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 17:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * On a realted matter to the one which I messaged you about, what is the situation with my nomination? I'm eager to receive all possible extra tools to help the wiki to the best. I've received more nominations and in a shorter time period than any of the admins who went through the nomination process before me, so I suppose trust from other users isn't an issue, but nothing has been done for a long time. Are new admins made only when the situations calls for extra manpower, or is a certain time period from the nomination point needed? Or is it just that no one remembered the nomination or that the current admins don't want more new admins? I would like to have the situation made clear so that I know what to anticipate in the near future. I'm in no way trying to push anyone and will accept any reason given even if it makes little sense. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * As it was explained to me when it was set-up, the nominations make an available pool so that when it's viewed that an additional admin is needed, it's easy to spot a community supported candidate. Just being nominated and receiving support doesn't ensure being made an admin, but when an admin is needed, it does identify those who would be most seriously considered. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:00, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks! I think that the process should be clearly documented on the RFA page. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * On GW:RFA, it already says "Please note that a well-supported nomination is not a guarantee for an administrator position—the decision of whether the GuildWiki needs more admins and whether a particular user is well-suited for the role rests with the current administrative team."
 * Of course, with PanSola and Tanaric both now inactive; it could be argued that it is time to consider adding an additional admin - but some claimed we had too many anyways. I'm neutral on it myself.  LordBiro is the one who needs to make the final determination of if another admin is needed, as he's the one with the ability to add/remove admins. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:09, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, I have read the whole RFA page carefully, but it leaves some space for confusion. The process could be documented better. I'll do it tomorrow if no one else bothers.
 * And I'm not asking for any special treatment for myself, so no need to make me an admin before there is need for it. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:13, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Tanaric had a conservative view as to promoting contributors, and it's one that I think is sensible. He believed we should only promote contributors to admins when there is a need to do so. I don't know how many admins currently patrol recent changes, but I think the current admins have vandalism covered, and I don't think there are more disputes than we can currently handle. If you think otherwise please correct me ;)


 * Despite all of the above I'm not as conservative as Tanaric when it comes to promotion. I will have to consider this whole thing a bit longer, if that's ok with you.


 * And I would also like to apologise to you, Gem. Ever since User talk:LordBiro I have failed to give my opinion as to your suitability as an admin. I think you would make an excellent admin and I'm certain that the next person I promote will be you, although I can't say when ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 19:47, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Just think Gem, I had to wait in line after Barek and Skuld. :P When I did get it, I didn't even know till I saw the new options. Gravewit pulled a fast one on me. &mdash; Gares 19:55, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * I was pretty vocal on the topic of the RFA system prior to and during Xeeron's nomination so maybe it's worthwhile me saying something again now that my own process has completed (or maybe being demoted would be a complete cycle but let's not go there!). I can see why have a system where we only sysop a new user when we "need" one (ie when an old admin has left), prior to Auron's RFA people here were pretty unwilling to vote unfavoured, if we had a Wikipedia style system it could lead to a massive influx of admins, some of which may not have been deserving/ready yet for sysoption.


 * I guess for me, I can't see many disadvantages of Gem being sysoped, he'd make an excellent admin IMO and I've noticed that he's got into moderating user disputes more recently, presumably in preperation or practice for promotion and has been doing quite well thus far. Also I don't know how many admins is "too many" but I don't think we're at that point yet. Furthermore I'd like to have the RFA process less drawn out and better defined. I'm not sure a "finishing line" system is best (ie get to 20 votes for or against and it's over) but I don't like the current "limbo" system. I've got in my mind some vague idea where the nominations come from the current admins (I guess the current admins want someone they feel they can work with) or perhaps even nominations coming from LordBiro himself, being our current beurocrated user, he's always going to be the one with the final say anyway. I don't think I've quite got my head around what I could propose as a better idea so I've just kinda let my thinking spill out onto the screen for now... --Xasxas256 20:08, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Although I would like to, I wont comment on or propose changes to the RFA process as long as I am still being processed, just to be fair. And LordBiro: There is nothing to appoligize for. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 04:17, 26 January 2007 (CST)

GW:NPA aka GW:GARES
I wanted to request your comments on No personal attacks, to see if you had any concerns with the contents (wordiness, definitions, flexibility, enforcement concerns, etc) of the proposed policy. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:29, 26 January 2007 (CST)


 * Hey Barek :) I have been keeping an eye on NPA for a while now, but I haven't really felt the need to get involved; I think it's looking really good!


 * I have a couple of suggestions and I'll post them over there :)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:35, 26 January 2007 (CST)

advice on icon?
Hi, I've made an icon for my sig. Well more of a 2D array of pixels at the moment, so I'd like to hear your short advice: The icon is supposed to be a revolver crossed with a rose, but the upper leaves of the rose are exactly over the revolver and it's all a bit hard to make out. So I was asking myself, What Would LordBiro Do? Would He stretch the icon horizontally a little, lower the angle of the two props and raise the upper leaves to be just below the bud? --Roland of Gilead (talk) 18:59, 30 January 2007 (CST)


 * Hey Roland :) I like your icon! But I do see what you're asking. It's a difficult question. I would say if the icon isn't clear you need to simplify it until it is. I'll assume that you really want to keep both the rose and the revolver, but I will say that having just one would make the icon more easy to discern than having them both together.


 * To simplify the rose I'd recommend looking at the rose in heraldry. It's a very common feature in English heraldry and the Wikipedia article on the War of the Roses has some good examples. They might not be exactly what you want, but they're a good starting point! I wonder if a good possible icon would be a rose crest, similar to the Image:Lancashire_rose.svg, with a revolver overlaid on the top? I think it would be worth trying anyway :)


 * I've said before that I recommend using vector graphics programs (like Inkscape and Illustrator) rather than bitmap graphics applications (like GIMP and Photoshop), but that really is up to you.


 * I'm not sure how much help this is, but feel free to ask again if I've missed anything of if you'd like any more advice :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 05:47, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Userboxes
Just recently made some that are linked to categories with your icons. Feel free to use/distribute the profession userboxes as seen on my talk page. Hope you like them and approve. If you don't like them, I can change the icons easy enough or if you have better profession icon ideas then I'll gladly change them.--  Vallen Frostweaver  14:38, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Contacting me
Hi. I noticed you had tried to contact me in irc a few hours ago. I will be on my computer for an hour or so and tomorrow probably for most of the day so feel free to contact me at any time if you have something important. (Doesn't need to be important thou :) ) -- (talk) 19:07, 31 January 2007 (CST)


 * Hey Gem, it was nothing important really, I was (and am) just on IRC this evening :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 19:08, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Icons
Hello. I'm here to ask a question regarding the icons you created (namely those like or their smaller counterparts like ) and was wondering if you knew of a way to produce the icon without the gray box background so that the color of the page it is posted on is seen instead? Thanks.--  Vallen Frostweaver  13:45, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * Hey Vallen, this has been asked a lot. I had a quick look around and found an answer in one of my archives.


 * The icons are PNG images, and PNG images are not rendered properly by IE6. If you view the wiki with Firefox or IE7 (any standards compliant browser) then you will see that these images are translucent, i.e. you can see through them, but they have a dropped shadow. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 14:26, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * Don't forget Opera! ;) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:36, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * Lynx ftw!  Lojiin 14:42, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * Hehe, sorry Gem and Lojiin! Although if you can get transparent PNGs to work in lynx then you are some kind of magician. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 14:50, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Well that makes sense. I'm using a PC that is using IE6. No wonder. Thanks. :) --  Vallen Frostweaver  15:30, 6 February 2007 (CST)
 * If you use .GIF it works in IE and Firefox.Though you have to sacrifice quality. Nice icons! Patrickssj6 17:11, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

help with user page
Hello, im new here and i wanted to ask to a mod how exactly i get such a cool user page! What do i need to do? Can you help me out plz? (sorry if im asking this in the wrong place) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scampioen (contribs).
 * You'll likely have more luck asking Gem :) However, if you want a start have a look at other people's user pages.  Alot of people don't mind you copying their format/layout as long as you credit them.  Also, its policy to sign your comments (use: ~ )  Welcome to the wiki though :)  Lojiin 14:00, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thank you, i just forgot to sign it. I will follow your advise. --Scampioen 14:05, 8 February 2007 (CST)


 * What do you mean he'd be better off asking Gem? :P What are you saying about my user page Lojiin? :P


 * Scampioen, you can change the style of items on a page by applying CSS to them, so I would try to figure out some useful CSS first :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 14:10, 8 February 2007 (CST)


 * LOL, I didn't say he'd be better off, I said he's probably have more luck. This would be b/c Gem seems to be more interested in user pages and such.  I will refrain from comment on your user page as I haven't actually really looked at it.  Scanned but not read.  Looks nice though.  Lojiin 14:14, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * I tried to implement a Babel template in my userpage, but it doesn't work. Can anyone help me out?--Scampioen 14:45, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * If you have a look towards the bottom of my user page or about halfway down on the sidebar on Biro's you'll see an exampl of a bable template. If you edit the page (to view the source.  Don't save :P)  You'll see something  .  That's the template you'll probably want to use.  You can substitute a language code for the 'fr' (which is French) and a level (as represented by the number). as necessary.  For more info see Template:Babel.  (edit couldn't remember the babel link)Lojiin 14:55, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Change to GFDL
I was wondering if you could comment on this. He had placed the GFDL tag on his user page on Feb 8th, then removed it today. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:07, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Build Testing
Hey Lord Biro, I have had a lot of trouble with people not actually testing builds before voting. I know it says that you don't have to test, but I think that you should have to. I have had some amazing builds rejected just because people failed to test them to see how amazing they really are. I think that many other people have this exact same problem. I'm not sure what you can do about it, but If you could do something I would be soo grateful! AmericanVlad 21:05, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * Hi AmericanVlad. If you link to the builds in question I would have a look, but in reality there is very little I can do. The reason that the option to vote against builds without testing exists is because it makes life easier for those involved. Many people have intimate knowledge of skills and attributes in the game, and they can spot a bad build when they see one. It is up to the build author to defend his position and explain why the build is worth testing.


 * I'm sorry you've had builds rejected. If you feel strongly about it you could try changing the policy, or you could keep the builds in your user space where they are safe from deletion and see if you can gain more support for them over time. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 07:33, 21 February 2007 (CST)

A question
Hey i dunno if you been asked this before, but what do you use to draw your logos? I do most my stuff like that on Paint, just because its simple easy to use and I got the feel of it. But it often looks pretty bad quality. Wondering what you use/do to get your imgaes looking so sexy. And any advice on the subject would be uber appriated. Cheers 20:18, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm guessing a little known app known as Photoshop CS.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 20:18, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm guessing some sort of pen thing wired up to a board thing and some high tech software, with regular taking of illegal drawing stimulants xD [[image:jups.jpg|16px]] 20:20, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm using Advanced Guess! He uses Inkscape, see User talk:LordBiro/Archive/Personal icon requests. Beat ya! --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 20:23, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow that was disapointing spectacle wise. But yeah thanks should help. I knew somebody must have asked previously but so many posts....[[image:jups.jpg|16px]] 20:30, 11 March 2007 (CDT)


 * lol, well, I've used a number of things. To produce the icons on GuildWiki I've used a combination of inkscape and Photoshop. I wouldn't recommend you use a raster graphics/bitmap editing tool for logo design, it's just not flexible enough. I generally create an outline of the icon that I want in Inkscape. I think it's important that the shape itself is recognisable. Recently Adobe switched all their icons to different coloured squares, and this is something that really frustrates me. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent :P


 * I don't have a tablet (i.e. a pen interface for the computer) and I draw everything with a mouse! If I am having trouble I will draw something on paper and take a photograph of it. I know that probably sounds absolutely nuts, but I don't need to do that often enough to justify the cost of a tablet, and being a technophile I couldn't make do with anything smaller than an A4 tablet anyway!


 * I hope that helps :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 08:27, 12 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Cheers. [[image:jups.jpg|16px]] 10:55, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Anet Wiki
I support your opinion wholeheartedly. I mean, Anet has little clues about how to run a Wiki. Just look at their FAQ's, over half the questions there are for experienced GuildWiki users regarding "wiki politics"-like things. Also, they run the wiki and yet they place "rumors" about the things. Their inconsitency is their only consistency, from game manuals to skill descriptions to their articles. If they wanted to provide a Wiki as a resource, there would be no point in putting "rumourous" information about GW2 and GW:EN, among other things. And they're already dreaming about a huge wiki network for each of their games!

But then again, why are you a sysop on GWW as well? ^.^

-- Nova   --  (contribs) 20:00, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm sorry I have not replied sooner, let me just say that you make a good point :) My 'essay' should really be re-titled since it is now a little inaccurate.


 * What I think is important here is the distinction between my definition of "official documentation" and an "official wiki". It was implied by Stabber that an official wiki would be populated by the developers of Guild Wars by automated means. Articles such as armor would be filled with "correct" damage calculations.


 * My opposition to this stems from the complexity of Guild Wars and the existence of emergent behaviour within the game. There is no way from simply looking at the calculations to determine exactly how the game will react. Who could have predicted Touch Rangers from looking at the calculations alone?


 * There is also the reliability of automatically produced documentation. The skill descriptions in game are automatically produced and are often incorrect. So even if the wiki was populated with "correct" information, tests would still have to be carried out to determine if this information was genuinely accurate within the game world. We might as well just do the tests instead!


 * But the above does not describe the way in which the official wiki works, and this is where my essay is unclear. I should have made a distinction between "automatically generated documentation" and "official endorsed user created documentation". The official wiki is the latter.


 * In the summary of that small explanation I say the following: "Overall I feel that user-created documentation will always be superior to official documentation."


 * My beliefs have not changed. Before I spoke to ArenaNet about the creation of the official wiki I had reservations as to whether such a wiki could exist. I was concerned that ArenaNet would impose restrictions on content that would suffocate the wiki and prevent it from being successful, and I was concerned that they would simply want users to administrate automatically generated content. If this had been the case then I would not be involved (or at least, not as involved as I am) with the official wiki.


 * ArenaNet have been very keen to set up a community-run project. While they endorse, host and help with the official wiki they don't run it; all content (aside from the FAQ and a couple of early articles) is user-created and that's why I am pleased to be working on it.


 * I hope this answers your question. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 20:28, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * ...And that's why I find the official wiki not so good. Seriously, if they're not going to provide us with official information and the only reason why they want to make a wiki is because this one uses google ads and is not official, then we might as well stick with this wiki anyways. After all, if we aren't getting too much help with A-Net, why should we recreate wikis? -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 20:54, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * They are helping out a lot with images, and the servers will be reliable. :P - <font color=#3E7A90> B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  03:24, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * And they are planning an in-game help system which directly takes information from the wiki. The GuildWiki license is incompatible with that kind of commercial use. The license was the main reason for the official wiki, but the reliability, no ads and some official help are great stuff too. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:48, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Well I'm not going to try and persuade you otherwise, Nova. If you think that the official wiki is less good than this wiki then by all means only use GuildWiki! :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 06:16, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Lord, as a Admin on the Offical wiki, do you feel A-net are keeping you in the dark about future updates regarding Wiki and Guild wars or are they keeping you informed? Sorry to change topic. Solus  [[image:Shield_of_Judgment.jpg|19px]] 06:21, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I'm not LBiro but in my time over there I have found out things on that site before other places and the other way around. They don't seem to give you any more than anyone else in terms of advanced info but having them help you to accomplish something in the wiki is very nice.  I can't stress how much I'm loving Emily Diehl for getting those great armor renders for starters.  I realize she isn't finished but the resources from ANet can make the other wiki much better in the end.  I just hope it's embraced by the community and not shunned since this one is already here.  Both this and that wiki are great IMO even if the other is still young, it just needs some TLC and I think it'll exceed our expectations. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:52, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * What is ANet providing you guys for the official wiki? -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 07:57, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

To quote the above:
 * They are helping out a lot with images, and the servers will be reliable. :P - <font color=#3E7A90> B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  03:24, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * And they are planning an in-game help system which directly takes information from the wiki. The GuildWiki license is incompatible with that kind of commercial use. The license was the main reason for the official wiki, but the reliability, no ads and some official help are great stuff too. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:48, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

That's just some of it so far. Consistent and nicely done armor screenies, items, weapons, and so on we expect help with as well. Plus we get to interact with some of ANet's staff on occasion and ask for assistance on projects or their input (which often helps a lot). As things have only begun I'm sure there will be more over time. Right now we are trying to get the basics really. --  Vallen Frostweaver  08:14, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Solus, the guys at ArenaNet have been great. They haven't given me any insight into the future of Guild Wars, and I don't expect them to. I expect to find out about GW2 in the same way as everyone else!


 * They are very open about the wiki, though, and as you might be aware Gaile and Emily contribute regularly, and Mike occasionally gives his opinion on wiki policy. They put a lot of trust in the community to produce a good wiki, which is admirable. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 19:29, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

Alright, thx. Solus  00:18, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Auron's RfA
Heya bro.

I volunteered your judgment in the case of Auron vs. the world, as I didn't wish to further antagonize the community right now. Looks like discussion has pretty much settled down, and there's surprisingly more support than I thought there'd be.

In any case, if you are or ever become willing to appoint Auron, the ball is in your court.

&mdash;Tanaric 01:10, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I have to say, I am quite surprised at the level of support Auron has received, no offence meant of course ;) I noticed earlier that you had volunteered me, and I understand. If I was proposing someone for adminship then I wouldn't wish to become too involved in the final decision!


 * I've grown to quite like Auron. The word blunt seems to sum him up best, which is something I admire :)


 * I will give it a little more thought before I make a decision. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 06:50, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Probaly not my place to ask, but Auron is a good example. I don't know how many times Auron has been blocked, for breaking the NPA or whatever, but you'll think chances of Adminship would have faded after two bans? I know this might spark an arguement but after two bans he still gets a nomanation for Adminship, IMO that's pretty dam forgiving. For the record I mean no offence Auron, just curious. Solus  [[Image:SOJsig.jpg|19px]] 07:21, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't think the number of bans someone receives should necessarily determine whether they are unsuitable for adminship, although in some cases it can be an indication.


 * The climate of the wiki at the period when Auron received those bans was unusual. I'm not defending his actions, but Auron and Skuld and others were displeased with the poor quality of the builds section and their stance was very aggressive. The removal of Skuld as an admin seemed to signal an end to this 'era'. In the time since then I believe Auron has changed his stance and his attitude, and judging from the very different responses that the first and second RfA have received I can only presume that others agree. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 07:41, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Ok, I wasn't involved in Wiki alot at that period, just nice to know the facts. Solus  07:47, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Exactly. People can change and Auron definitely has changed, though I'm not still sure if it's enough. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:39, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm sure it doesn't mean much, and that I haven't been on GWiki for long... but from talking to Auron in-game, he is thoroughly passionate for this wiki, and for helping other players. My support goes to him. Leina 02:41, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks Leina :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 05:11, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Just a tough..
Baxter.. is that from Ronnie Baxter, the famous Darts player? your a celebrity!! &mdash;<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA   16:22, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * No, it's not. But I'm a celebrity anyway. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:02, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's surprising how often random people you converse with on the Internet are famous in "real life." &mdash;Tanaric 03:04, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

How about an icon for Morale Boost?
To be used for skill templates, so that any qr notes for Rez Signet and Sunspear Rebirth don't have to go out of their way to say "only recharge on morale boost". -PanSola 02:03, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * A similar idea was discussed on the official wiki. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea what a morale boost icon would look like. It's my opinion that if you can't easily convey a message using a picture then you shouldn't use an icon to convey that message.


 * BlastedT gave a suggestion on my talk page there. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 05:30, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I agree that BlastedT's icon would be useless. This is what I have in mind:. Basically, the icon that the game uses for Morale Boost, without the actual numeric percentage text. -PanSola 07:08, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I would imagine a LordBiro reproduced version of a morale boost icon minus the numbers (but keeping the % sign and teh arow up and color) would probably look just like it. But I do agree there is a greater chance of it being confusing though LB did get people to believe that a purple pyramid with an eye on it stood for a Mesmer afterall. ;) --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  08:02, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Even Better: Pet Icon
Make a pet Icon! that would be uberleet! @v™ + contribs/talk 08:53, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

Curious
Why does it say under "inactive Admins", that those admins occsasionally pop into GuildWiki, when they are inactive as far back as June 2005? Solus  23:45, 28 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You would be better off asking there, but I suppose it's because when the list was created, admins did occasionally pop into GuildWiki. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 04:52, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Text color
hey.. can anyone help me... how do u change text color and is there a list of colors u can have... can anyone tell me the shortcuts to different text colors please &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flash in the pan (contribs).


 * Hey, there are no shortcuts exactly. The wiki uses HTML and CSS to change the colour of text. All of the following produce the same result (br is a line break):

This text is red

<span style="color: RGB(255, 0, 0);"> This text is red

This text is red

This text is red


 * Here's what the results look like:

This text is red

<span style="color: RGB(255, 0, 0);"> This text is red

This text is red

This text is red


 * Hope that helps a bit :) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 14:26, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Official WIki
Hey LB, I'm not able to edit the OGWW. Keep getting this message in red: I've tried logging out/in but still no go. Any clues or way you can help? Thanks. --  Vallen Frostweaver  11:04, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.
 * Nevermind. Apparently the wiki was trying to tell me that I had been online for X hours and to take a break. :\  oh well.  it's passed and I can edit again without errors upon saving. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  12:56, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hehe, well I'm glad it's sorted now! I'm not sure why that error appears but I sometimes get it myself on both wikis! <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:14, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Strangely enough, I stated getting another error when trying to edit my user page and only on that page. These wiki's get confusing sometimes.  Glad to know it's not just me. :) --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:29, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

time
Bugger, i forgot about the, i was trying to do it another way. -- Xeon 09:12, 9 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hehe :) well an example is working at User:LordBiro/Template-example. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 09:14, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah i saw, ill put that into the other template now, change a bit around and so forth. -- Xeon 09:16, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Image copyright problem
Thank you for uploading your images. GuildWiki takes copyright very seriously, and the images you have supplied may be missing information on its copyright status. The images will be deleted after 7 days, unless the copyright status is determined for the license and the source of the images. Please review Image use policy and add a copyright tag to their image description page.

Please browse through your images and correctly tag them. Further details can be found at Image license guide.

Your images can be found here.

Thank you for your cooperation. -- Xeon 09:06, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * They are all released under the GFDL 2.1 1.2+, if anyone would like to tag them as such then please be my guest. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 09:21, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * 1.2*. --Dirigible 15:13, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Umm... *cough*. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 15:22, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * "if anyone would like to tag them as such then please be my guest." ...that is probably the laziest thing I've ever read on the wiki. :) &mdash;Tanaric 18:00, 11 May 2007 (CDT)


 * lol, don't get me wrong, I think the image attribution project is great, as long as I don't have to do too much actual work ;) <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:16, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
 * lol. &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 07:15, 13 May 2007 (CDT)


 * The templates you added imply they're not released under the CC license. --Fyren 17:38, 13 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Well, I considered that, and thought that the fact that they are on here must mean that they are released under the BY-NC-SA license. In honesty if I have a choice in the matter I don't want to release them under BY-NC-SA, and would rather just say that they can be used by GuildWiki as an exception, but I don't know if that's possible. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 17:57, 13 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Before we added license templates I would have agreed that the fact that they were here meant they were licensed under the CC. WP's situation is similar with their text being GFDL but images can be tagged with whichever license applies, whether it's the GDFL or not (for example w:Template:cc-by-sa-2.5 and w:Template:cc-by-2.5).  At this point, you unfortunately don't have a choice but did when you first uploaded them.  --Fyren 18:27, 13 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I suspected as much. I'll add a separate license to each one to make it clear. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 12:37, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

Copyright
Thank you for uploading your images. GuildWiki takes copyright very seriously, and the images you have supplied may be missing information on its copyright status. You will be deleted after 7 days, unless the copyright status is determined for the license and the source of the images. If you conutine to breached this code, you will be here by ordered by Solus to ban yourself, thankyou for understanding. Solus  07:25, 13 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Delete a bureaucrat? &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 07:28, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

Your doubting the Copyright? Get him Oink! Solus  07:46, 13 May 2007 (CDT)


 * lol... I don't know what's going on, but Oink looks serious. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 08:26, 13 May 2007 (CDT)

No monk tome
I had a go at getting that elite monk tome from Byzzr Wingmender, no luck. Thought it was funny what I picked up in the process though :P



Want any? :D &mdash; Skuld 09:53, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


 * lol, wow :o I'll take 1 Byzzr's Benediction if that's ok! <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 12:48, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Wow were you soloing that with famine? - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 21:49, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeh, I was :) &mdash; Skuld 19:07, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Question about "the other place"
Hi LB - I'm in the middle of a week of night shifts and I find myself unable to access wiki.guildwars.com due to the nasty nanny software at work. Has the offwiki (yech) suddenly been tagged as a "Games" site that you know of? I had the same problem with THIS wiki a while ago, but accidentally stumbled upon the secret backdoor ^^. -- Snograt  talk here 18:56, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Give http://206.127.153.172/wiki/Talk:Main_Page a go &mdash; Skuld 19:07, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Your access was denied due to the content categorisation of this website/file: "Games" - no luck :( -- Snograt  talk here 19:16, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


 * There have been no such changes that I know of, but it's possible that your office use some kind of filter set up by a separate company who have tagged GWW as a "games" site. I'm not certain though! <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 04:37, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Invited
Greetings noobcake!You are such a nubcake that you get to join (if you wish) Cheese's Nooby Guildhall Challenge! Have a good time and...if the hall page isn't very descriptive now, it will be soon...so live with it:D.&mdash;  Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 19:12, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

ICONS!
Hey, I was directed here by Aberrant80 to get icons from you. I don't know how that would work, If you would send them to me or something. Or even if you could just tell me how you came to get them (as I understand it you made them yourself). I was more thinking along the lines of some like Abberrant80's icons for his userpage characters. As always if you help me I will put you in my credits. Thanks! --Illusion of End 17:57, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

Also, on a completely unrelated note, what happens if you submit things under GFDL (to your personal thing that you released) and how would you do it??? Thanks again! --Illusion of End 18:01, 23 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm not entirely certain what you're asking, hehe :) If you want to use the profession icons you don't have to ask. They are free to use. You don't have to put me in your credits or anything, the information about who created the image is on the image article, and that's enough.


 * If you submit things under the GFDL it is understood that you are also allowing GuildWiki to use the file. Since most of my images were originally uploaded without the GFDL tag (or any mention of GFDL) it's safe to presume that they are also released under the CC BY-NC-SA license.


 * If that doesn't answer your questions then let me know! <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 13:10, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Help with a userbox
Hey, I need help with a userbox. I need it to have the userbox info on the left and the picture on the right. Basically I'm trying to switch the ID and info's places. Can you help? Thanks in advance. Enigma 18:09, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

silly wabbit, blue is for boys
i channelshifted your Image:Male.png because... it's was a pink boy icon. should you get time, you might wish to export out a properly rendered blue icon to replace my rough shop job. thanks again for all your iconic goodness. with love --Honorable Sarah 22:59, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Cache bug? It's still pink to me. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 03:41, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Probably. Blue to me. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   03:54, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed now. :) - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 06:25, 30 May 2007 (CDT)


 * The icon was intentionally pink, but I've genuinely forgotten why :) lol. So blue is fine!


 * I won't upload a replacement since I think the current blue icon is great and the file that I'd need to edit is buried somewhere :P <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 15:05, 30 May 2007 (CDT)


 * LordBiro angry. LordBiro smash... gender barriers. &mdash;Tanaric 20:17, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * A while ago, in my exhaustive Internet readings, I came across an interesting factoid: As recently as the early 1900s in America, the current color/gender convention was reversed. Pink was for boys and blue was for girls. Something about pink being a light red, hence a "strong" color. So, unless Google Answers was joshing me, maybe Biro was just being antiquarian! — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 16:39, 1 June 2007 (CDT)