Talk:Doppelganger

Perhaps we need a new type of page. Tatics/Pagename. This would solve a lot of the issues we've had regarding how much info to put on some pages... thoughts? Gravewit 02:53, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)
 * Has including tactics/hints/spoilers in sections in the main articles proven to be controversial here? If so, I apologize: I'm new here and wasn't aware of the controversy.  In such case moving them into subarticles might be ok, although it brings up the issue of whether it should be Pagename/Tactics or Tactics/Pagename.  For what it may be worth, Wikipedia strongly discourages the use of  subpages in the main article namespace.  --Saucepan 06:15, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either, but I didn't realise Wikipedia discouraged it. I think the way it is now is fine. I think if someone comes to a wiki on Guild Wars they can expect to find spoilers. 06:20, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * I was aware of wikipedia's policy, I just can't think of a better way to do some of the stuff we do. Gravewit 06:28, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * The argument on Wikipedia is very persuasive, at least to me. If we want to split this page into sub-articles then I agree that we should not use subpages, but rather just regular articles. 06:50, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * What I was thinking we needed, was a special format template for stuff that is spoiler. This way, folks would have to highlight with their mouse the text in order to be able to read it.Fengol


 * Hey Fengol, I don't think that kind of thing is necessary, but at most we could have a sign on the top of certain pages saying spoiler!. The thing is this would appear at the top of a large proportion of our pages. I think it's easier to say that, since this is a wiki on Guild Wars, you can expect spoilers. 20:38, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)

Doppelganger using Healing Breeze
I've seen a couple of people claim that the AI never uses Healing Breeze, but LordBiro says it does. Maybe it only uses it sometimes? I just had a guildmate beat the dopp. easily using only healing breeze and zealot's fire. He claims the AI never used breeze once. Maybe the AI only uses it if it has a harm-over-time debuff active? That would be consistent with how the NPC healers use the spell. If so, we should reinstate the hint to bring breeze along. --Saucepan 11:50, 19 Jun 2005 (EST)

Ah right. I might give it another try... I am certain that the only healing spell on me was Healing Breeze (since I was told the doppelganger would not use it) and that he did in fact heal himself. If you are certain that this is my mistake then please feel free to put the info back :) 21:34, 19 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * I did some experimenting tonight with my Mo/N20.
 * Trial 1: I equipped Reversal of Fortune and Healing Breeze. Dopp stood off with a bow, and cast Reversal of Fortune on itself while I used Breeze and plinked away with staff.  Dopp never used Breeze.  I was gradually winning, but became impatient with its constant use of Reversal of Fortune and decided to start over without it.
 * Trial 2: With only Healing Breeze equipped, Dopp unexpectedly pulled out an axe and closed to melee. By repeatedly casting Breeze on myself (as much for the Divine Favor healing as for the health regen) I could stay alive indefinitely while plinking away at it with my staff.  Dopp never used Breeze even as its health slowly dropped to zero, and I won the fight.
 * Trial 3: I added Life Siphon on the theory that the AI would use Breeze to counter a health drain effect. This didn't work out because its Siphon canceled out my Siphon.  Oops.
 * Trial 4: I tried a complex plan involving interplay of 8 Monk and Necro skills and got owned badly. Dopp didn't use Breeze, nor seem to need it.
 * Trial 5: I simplified and used just Healing Breeze, Divine Boon, and Dark Pact. This worked well: Dopp still never used Breeze, or thought of recasting Boon on itself for the quick, inexpensive heal.  Instead it cast Pact until it was at half health (and possibly out of energy), then used its bow.  I healed myself, then when I had a comfortable lead I quickly Pacted it to death.  There was time to cast Breeze only 3 or 4 times so this may be a bonus-capable tactic.
 * When you tried it, did you have Reversal of Fortune or some other indirect healing effect? Or maybe any kind of self-buff, and it was healing as a Divine Favor side-effect?
 * If my hunch is right a warrior, ranger, or mesmer with a bleed or damage-over-time skill might be required to get the AI to use Breeze. I'll try it myself if I ever get down there with the right kind of character. --Saucepan 18:07, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * Since I am truly the canonical no-lifer, I tried the Trial 5 tactic 3 more times to see if I could score the bonus. No attempt took longer than 45 seconds -- my best attempt was 30 seconds even -- and the bonus text claims you have 50 seconds.  However, nothing special happened: just the 100xp for defeating an even-level mob and the appropriate random single loot drop.  Maybe you have to get the bonus before you ascend or not at all? --Saucepan 18:30, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)
 * Good stuff Saucepan! I suppose it must have just been me then :) Perhaps, like you said, he was healing himself indirectly through other buffs and I failed to spot it. This is fairly comprehensive stuff, so I can't argue with the Doppelganger's use of Healing Breeze! :) 20:40, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)
 * Conveniently my main character is a Monk/Ranger, so I'll try to test this healing breeze + condition theory :) 02:24, 21 Jun 2005 (EST)
 * Saucepan is right about bleeding, but i don't know about the whole hex deal thing, but i tried with Sever Artery on my Warrior and once he started bleeding, he used HB to counter his negative health regeneration. here's the proof-- El Delcroy :D 14:35, 7 January 2007 (CST)

Does the Bonus work?
Does anyone know whether the bonus actually works? I killed it to ascend in about 45 seconds and got no indication about this. You don't get the normal mission experience regardless I think, so it might be some sort of bug. Dlanod


 * I believe it may be bugged. On my first attempt I killed the Doppelganger in slightly more then one minute - obviously too long for the bonus. Now I did it again and after several attempts got him down after 27 seconds (woohoo! (for the record: dust trap, flame trap, barbed trap, prince of failure and dark pact)). I also wrote down my total XP on a piece of paper to check whether maybe something was rewarded without notice: I got only the 100 XP for killing a level 20 opponent. --84.175.123.80 05:57, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I'm quite sure now that the bonus doesn't work the way it should. Just ascended with another character, killed the doppelganger in very well under 50 secs and got nothing special. One thing I observed is, though: I only got an item off the doppelganger when achieving the bonus. This may be coincidence, though (would be a very lousy bonus reward). --84.175.123.80 08:05, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I ascended for the first time last night, and ended up killing the Doppleganger in under 20 seconds. I picked up the 50k, and what looked like 100 exp, but didn't see anything else. The bonus probably isn't working still. LordKestrel 15:07, 20 Jul 2005 (EST)
 * If you're level 20, you get 100 XP for killing a level 20 mob. --Fyren 15:53, 20 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I killd it with my Mo/Me... in lvl 18... only healing brez and got to lvl 20 after i killd it!!... so the bonus works... (but this was from 4 month ago... >.<)

Tactics not valid?
I wonder if some of the recent patches have improved the AI so as to made some of these tactics obselete. I had a terrible time getting my N/E to ascend, and tried several times loading up with lots of useless health sac skills (and not using them myself). The doppelganger wouldn't use them either, and just pounded my face into the ground with his bow. I finally eeked by him by using the AOE trick against him, then running past him long enough for him to use Chilblains. I escaped the damage and he poisoned himself.

Also, the area you face off in is completely flat, how can you get a height advantage?--Jackel 03:09, 29 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * There is always a risk that game advice can be obsoleted at any time, but I haven't seen any evidence of any major AI changes yet. The advice to load up with useless spells is a generalization -- the AI does like to cast self-buffs, and will not hesitate to use any sacrifice spell that debuffs or damages you, but there may be some spells that, like Healing Breeze, will not be used since whatever condition triggers the AI to use them does not occur.  (For example, it won't use Offering of Blood unless it needs the energy.)


 * As for the height advantage, you can either run up the ramp you come down on, or go up one of the ramps that curve up around each side of the arena. Either way the dopp will follow you. --Saucepan 07:46, 29 Jul 2005 (EST)

Dopple with a shield
Anyone else ever seen the dopple equip a shield? I was bored killing my dopple over and over on my warrior using Shield Bash in my build. Then one time I attacked and I got knocked over, and when I looked at them they had a shield on. Also, when I killed it, the shield dropped for me. Seems rather odd. -- Curse You 1:57, 22 July (EST)
 * if mobs drop an item, they sometimes have this item equiped. its like watching an inferno imp carry a sheild. he can use sheild bash without his shield, just liek he can use irresistable blow withotu a hammer. Detraya fullvear
 * Well the point is that normally when it uses Shield Bash, nothing happens because it doesn't have a shield. But I quess occasionally it will end up with a shield, and so it can use Shield Bash and Shield Stance.  -- Curse You 1:47, 23 July (EST)

Doppleganger drops!
I just fought my Dopple and it dropped me a shield!!! I got a screenshot. I think it's cause my character is from Cantha? Never had that happen before - BeXoR 20:15, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I got 2 tribal axes in a row hehe &mdash; Skuld 20:21, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

Defeating Doppelganger in less than 30 seconds
I think this article Guide_to_defeating_doppelganger doesn't include all information for an Elementalist. An E/Any can defeat Doppelganger in less than 30 seconds without effort. It's quite simple an only requires 2 effective skills and a Fire Staff/Rod. The other 6 can be ressurect, "heal other" (in my case since I'm an E/Mo) or any kind of skills that won't hurt/heal you. Put some points on Energy Storage and the rest in Fire. Cast Conjure Flame followed by Mark of Rodgort. After that, just keep hitting with your fire weapon. Doppelganger will be death in less than the 30 seconds of Mark of Rodgort.

Divinus Dominus

i beat him in like thirteen seconds

50k bonus - changed / confined to Tyrians?
I've run four Canthans (all level twenties)through this mission over the last week, and each of them received only 1100 xp (kill + bonus).

86.130.72.38 14:35, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

User:RedFeather wrote this on the article: "It has been reported that Weh No Su are not getting the 50,000xp and mission complete towards their title track upon beating doppleganger." Has anyone else found this too? --Xasxas256 09:11, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

User:RedFeather I have talked to 3 others today that are Weh No Su and they did not get the 50,000xp and mission complete for beating doppleganger. My main character Hadrian Rhedd is Tyrian, but is also Weh No Su. He did not receive the 50,000xp nor get a mission complete. I've sent a bug report to ncsoft support to see whether this is intentional or not.

As of when I'm posting this it is still not giving the 50,000xp for defeating the doppleganger if you were already Weh No Su. I took my Ranger through there, who is Tyrian, but also Weh No Su, and she received credit for completing the Mission and Bonus, but did not receive any xp from completing the Mission and Bonus. I confirmed the completion of Mission and Bonus by looking at the number in the Tyrian Protector title Track. I have 6 visible mission/bonus completions...and the title track reports 7. Being that this character is a survivor I'm working on (and is still a survivor after defeating the doppleganger in one try)...this is quite a let down...as I was expecting the 50k xp :( but at least I can continue on to droks after getting through the Dragon's Lair. I think I will be submitting a ticket...that's a considerable chunk of xp for a survivor to miss out on, plus this bug needs to be fixed. Thor79 00:39, 12 January 2007 (CST)


 * It's not a bug, it's a feature. It would be ridiculous overkill to allow any character basically free 50,000 exp. It is designed for Prophecies born characters who haven't taken equivalent Ascension elsewhere - ie. have presumably not traveled to either continent or explored it much. The 50,000 exp is enough to automatically boost most players to level 20, getting them ready for Droks. Also it is the Tyrian compensation to all those high-exp quests in Factions. Entropy 01:17, 12 January 2007 (CST)

And what about Elonians? They have no Ascension, Weh No Su or the like do they also not recieve the 50K xp or is it simply to those characters who arent Weh no Su. Seems rather sily if you are denied the huge xp simply because you beat Naphui Quarter before kill him.


 * It's definitely not there if you're Weh no Su - I got the 50k xp on my non-Closer to the Stars Assassin, so you can get it if you're Canthan and not Weh no Su. For Elonians...I've heard you cannot get it if you finish the quest "Hunted!" (equivalent of Ascension for Elonians) but I can't confirm that personally. For Elonians, meh, they have an easier time getting Masters on missions (3 skillpoints and much more xp compared to Prophecies). Also, in Elona you get Hero Skill Points, which should basically be counted as free regular skill points. Finally - if you're Elonian and didn't pay for a Ferry or get run much, you and your Heroes should already be at Level 20 way before you even reach Doppleganger. So meh, not missing much. 24.6.147.36 01:41, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * Elonian chars can also most definitely get the 50k xp, as long as you haven't finished "Hunted!". And that 50k xp helps when going for Survivor. :) So, aye, the Doppelganger does mean free 50k xp for anyone who wants it, regardless of which campaign that char belongs to. --Dirigible 01:50, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * Not missing much except for 50K xp which is alot. Even with all the Canthan/Elonian bonuses simply because when you kill him determines on whether you get 50K or not is as I said rather silly. Now that I know I all my characters from now on will simply slaughter this thing first get the 50K and then go about way since it isnt hard to get a runner to Sanctum Cay a Desert run tour and beat those three missions there. Really all got to do is make sure you have a good Doppleganager killing build and then its free xp all the way. I kinda feel sorry for those Tyrian Characters not aware of this and go to Factions or Nightfall for whatever reason and come back to do this.
 * Ascended my non Weh No Su Ritualist two days ago. Got the 50k exp.--JP 07:39, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Doppleganger looks like it is warrior only?
So I was checking out the doppleganger entry and noticed that it said

-- The doppelganger equips the same skills the player equips when facing it, which is one of the keys of defeating it. It has 12 rank in every attribute except for Swordsmanship, Axe Mastery, and Hammer Mastery. It is always armed with an Eternal Bow and a Chaos Axe, both of max damage, and will switch weapons if the player it is facing comes in melee range or moves away again. --

Why does it list a Warrior specific description?

&mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by RedFeather (talk &bull; contribs) 15:34, 1 October 2006 (CDT).

Can Use Spear Attacks!
I just got to the Doppleganger Today with my Paragon/Elementalist. I went in to the fight with Mark of Rodgort, Conjure Flame, Barbed Spear, Cruel Spear and "They're on fire!" and he hit me with Barbed Spear before I killed him. I don't have a pictue, so I have no proof, but my screen clearly displayed "Barbed Spear" and I was bleeding, and there was no other way he could have made me bleed.

Because of this, I think the Bug warning should be removed, because it could seriously mislead some people.


 * Yeah, I guess they fixed it. -- Gordon Ecker 21:34, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * I saw the doppelganger holding a spear and pwning me with it. Plus it was a really cool spear. looked like it was made of the same stuff as Jade Armor. I want a spear like that. &mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] (talk |contribs) 03:18, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Pet
Is this really a bug? this has been happening since i first brought my ranger through all those months ago--slogankid1 (talk) 15:03, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Drops
Ahahahah! He just dropped a candy cane shard! &mdash; Blastedt(Talk) 11:35, 24 December 2006 (CST)

He just dropped a Poisonous Cleaver of Axe Mastery 6-15. Neodudeman(Talk) 8:35, 20 March 2007 (CST)

Weapon Attributes
"The Doppleganger has a rank of 12 in every attribute except Hammer/Axe/Sword/Dagger/Spear/Scythe Mastery."

Not quoted verbatim, but that's basically it. My question is: okay, if he does not have Rank 12 in weapon attributes. What rank does he have?? I can't find it anywhere in the article(s). Entropy 03:04, 3 January 2007 (CST)

I'd assume 16... but assuming is bad cause it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'. 132.203.83.38 19:31, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Doppelganger is Leet!
i think doppelganger has farmed some doa, check what he is wielding

I just noticed that a few minutes ago...it seems he's been messin around in doa =p  http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7376/spearbg9.jpg P A R A S I T I C 16:52, 25 February 2007 (CST)

Ok, I am not sure if this was noted at all through out the history of this story but there is a REALLY easy way for a monk to kill this looser. Bring 2(or 3 skills if you aquired Shield of Judgement). The 2 skills are divine boon and retribution. Cast retribution and divine boon when you get in. Then just mash divine boon or retribution. You get the boon and the divine healing. while his/hers attacks hurt himself/herself.(He/she is too stupid to use that combo) Then just do not attack the boss:)Angelus The Wise 00:50, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * What, Banish and Healing Breeze not good enough for you? --Kale Ironfist 01:01, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Mending or healing breeze and a wand should do. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 07:23, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

doppel level
the doppelganger's level is 30 in hard mode. i don't know how does it affect its hp, but its so fustrating - how do you kill a level 20 foe with your char-.
 * A lot of the methods listed here will work just as well regardless of the doppelganger's health or level since there based on flaws/deficiencies in his AI. BigAstro 14:33, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Or her&mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] (talk |contribs) 14:41, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Just go R/* or */R and beastmaster. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:00, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Owned him with:


 * Cast Conjure Flame, Fire Attunement, and Aura of Restoration before going in. If he casts MS first, run.  If not, continue to MoR, MS, Meteor, Searing Flames spam.  Watch for his 70 damage attacks. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 19:11, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You can also use Meteor to interrupt his MS. Then you don't have to run, and you can use your skills, and kill him in less time. Sir Bertrand 13:55, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

empathy & hard mode
Everyone has been owning him on hard mode with empathy and 12 points in Domination in under 30 seconds. Don't attack him, cast empathy, and he will attack you. He will kill himself. Morgan Fairweather 13:33, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * How do you survive her attacks? I added Signet of Midnight and had her keep trying to hex me while i waited with shatter hex. In retrospect, I could have probably just gotten by with only empathy but this was pretty fun and over rather quick.&mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] (talk |contribs) 13:54, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Good question. I considered empathy, but didn't see how to easily survive the 14 or so attacks that he needs to execute to kill himself.  Instead, I went with Backfire, one ranger spirit, spiritual pain and a few useless spammable spells(Clumsiness, Illusion of haste, etc.).  He will cast spiritual pain and backfire on you, but you outlast him.  Wait for the spirit to be cast then go to town with spiritual pain. Once you start attacking (after waiting for the spirit, it takes less than 10 seconds to kill him.) If you want to feel really good, take hex breaker and wastrel's as well to keep him from getting the backfire on you. --Jeremy Winston 11:09, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

damage type
Seems the Dopple uses physical ranged attacks, and lightning melee attack. But it could also be random, and I just had the luck of making the same observation on multiple trials. More independent verification can help. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 14:17, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I had Conjure Lightning on my skill bar (was using desecrate enchantments and thought it would be a useless) but I was taking damage from it when it hit me with the Axe. &mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] (talk |contribs) 15:21, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

Bonus changed for Hard Mode, or what?
I finally got around to moving my Ritualist through ascension and when I tried it on easy mode, it told me that the bonus is killing him under 10 minutes. This was odd to me, since it's ALWAYS been 50 seconds for bonus. So I wiki'd it and the wiki says 10 minutes, too. I went back to shank him in Hard Mode (8 seconds, btw) and it said the bonus was two minutes. When did they change this? Kstarfire 04:14, 9 May 2007 (CDT)