GuildWiki talk:Wikia Move

To Those Of You Wondering About The Downtime
Once we initiate the move, the time the database won't be writing should only be a couple hours, really. If it ends up that it will take longer, we will delay the move.

Censorship
Will Wikia censor or change any additions that we add?--Gigathrash 21:54, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This will not happen. Wikia's taken over the hosting of a few large communities in the past, such as Memory Alpha and ParagonWiki, and they've shown no inclination towards any kind of censorship. Gravewit 21:55, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Usernames
Because the DB dump is going into its own servers, does that mean that they will not (at this time) be attempting to merge user accounts from both sites? Potentially, a user with a username on this wiki could find that their username is already taken on that wiki - so I was curious how that is to be handled at this stage (I also realize that this is more of a question for them rather than Gravewit ... but I don't know how to contact those actively working the migration on their side, so I'll ask here). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:01, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * We'll be on our own servers and database, for now. Everything will carry over EXACTLY how it is. Gravewit 22:06, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Questions & Answers
'Wow, this is...huge-- (Talk) (Contr.) 21:25, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * What do you guys think about it?--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 21:26, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm ok, not the smartest of times to set the database to read only, eye of the north was just released. How long will the database be read only? Can we get links to the new owners? -- Xeon 21:33, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm currently working close with Wikia to get a copy of our sites set up on our new server. Once they've got it running, I'll set the DB to read only, make a new dump, they'll import it, and we'll switch over the DNS. The only downtime should be the minimal DNS switching time. Gravewit 21:34, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it's awesome! It sucks how many times I came on GuildWiki seeking some insight and found the servers down. Although there weren't many times when this happened, I must have luckily been searching for things unexpectedly during those down times. All I can say is Bravo! The work you've done here, and allowed us, the community, to contribute to any and everything the site has to offer is just awesome! No word can better describe what the two guys did. Awesome! All I can say is, don't try and fix a system that is not broken. When the Builds section went down, I almost cried... but then I thought "Hey! These guys are forcing me to be creative and actually go throw the list of skills at the trader before buying them all!" so for that, thanks. Stimulated my brain. And I guess that's that. Thanks for everything! --MagickElf666 21:35, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * If (when) you change the DNS, the propagation time for some areas can be up to 48 hours. So you're looking at about 2 days downtime for some people, even if it's up and running fine at the new place. Biscuits [[Image:Biscuit.png]] 04:27, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually you could work around that by keeping the old one up and running but editlocked, and provide a link to the IP of the new one until the DNS has resolved for everyone. Biscuits [[Image:Biscuit.png]] 05:40, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

So for the general user here, does this mean anything? Sure, it's hosted by a different company now; but like previously mentioned, it's still the same editors and sysops. Does the licensing change at all? Will we still have advertisements on the site? Are Gravewit and Nunix still in charge of adding extensions and whatnot to the servers?

That's a pretty big pile of questions there, but in the end, I'm just curious to know if anything at all changes in the way we edit. Any changes in policy because of all this? -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  21:36, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * To the average user, nothing will really change. The ads will point to Wikia's ad code, and users will be able to take advantage of their new skin, but that's about it. Gravewit 21:38, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I am glad you guys get a break. Readem (talk *contribs ) 21:36, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Wikia is monopolizing. Seriously tho, horrible timing for guildwiki....--Alari 21:39, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree. Could've at least waited 'til a while after EotN was released.  Maybe the end of September or something.  You can't set a site to read only when there's tons of new data to add.  Bad timing indeed o-o the imperialist

Srry to ask but i really dont know, Wth is wikia? --The Gates Assassin 21:40, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wikia gaming network They recently took the EQII wiki I sometimes contribute aswell.--Alari 21:43, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Will Wikia censor or change any additions that we add?--Gigathrash 21:54, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This will not happen. Gravewit 21:55, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Will this change make any difference with our current situation with the official wiki? Any changes to fansite status, etc... or does that all stay the same as well?

And a bonus question. Does the URL change at all? Because I'd like to know before I have to do a Google search for my own userpage. :P -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  22:03, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * As far as I know Anet isn't going to blackball us or anything. Wikia now owns all of the URLs, as well, which will be kept the same. Gravewit 22:09, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Wikia's Guild Wars related wikis
Just curious ... will this DB dump overwrite Wikia's existing (tiny) English wiki for Guild Wars, or sit along-side it as an additional wiki on their network for Guild Wars? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:46, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * We will be moving to our own servers within Wikia, and let the communities discuss how to take care of merging the sites, should they want to. We're going under the assumption that GuildWiki will take over the existing Guildwars wiki. It is not going to be a mandate, however. Gravewit 21:48, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Wikia's other content-similar wikis
GuildWiki is the big one, no doubt. But the other GameWikis projects probably have parrallel projects already active on Wikia as well -- I know there's one for Warhammer Online. Amusingly, I very recently blogged a bit about that one. Maybe EA Mythic knew something about the future of GameWikis that the rest of us didn't? (Don't answer that.) At any rate, there seems to be potential for issues and territory wars and general wagging of epeens. Has any thought been put into figuring out how we are going to resolve those potential conflicts? I have a feeling it is not going to be in anyone's interest to have parallel Wikia projects running in the future. --Bishop 03:46, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * There's always the chance that it'll turn out much the same as GuildWiki and GuildWarsWiki... both side-by-side. Most contributors on one are on the other as well, and the two both provide information in their own way (GuildWiki's been here longer, so more info, but GuildWarsWiki is more connected to ANet, so more questions answered). Other wikis won't have such benefits to set them apart, but it's still not going to turn into a turf war, I don't think. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  03:54, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

version
will the site retain it's look and feel, or will it be blended and frappe'd into the wikia style? (hint: you want the first one) --Honorable Sarah 21:49, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * (Hint,Hint, You Really want the first one.}--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 21:50, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I believe users will be able to choose Wikia's style, but I know the old Gamewikis skin you know and tolerate will remain the default for now. Gravewit 21:51, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Their new crappy skin can be changed back to the default ones on most wikis.--Alari 21:51, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

How Much?
This may seem nosy, but about how much money did you get? And no smartalec answers either. Because if it was alot, I can't help but think it was for the money o-o the imperialist


 * Obviously, from a legal standpoint, I can't discuss this. Sorry. I will say this: It really wasn't for the money. Gravewit 21:53, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I understand... But seriously, I don't understand. It's all been going so well for so long, so why suddenly the change to wikia?  the imperialist


 * It really hasn't been sudden. I know the announcement might seem jarring to you users, but we aren't just jumping into this blind. Gravewit 21:59, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * One more thing... will you have any say what happens to this site after the switch to the wikia servers? I mean, can you tell them which policies they can and can't remove etc.? the imperialist


 * over-reacting a bit eh? if anything changes, the site will become more popular. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 21:54, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Haha, that's the kind of stuff I would expect User:Karlos to say...>.> Seriously though, even if it was for the money (doubt that considering Gravewit's past stuffs), as long as it has no serious ramifications for the wiki, Who cares? Capitalism rules, remember. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Capitalism and free markets have rendered billions of people inable to put food on their own tables tbh. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 01:09, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh please, no more political crap , this is why I stay away from politics..Cardsharp 01:21, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Because of disagreement or contest? 0.o Apathy only makes you part of the problem. Get politically involved, get out and vote etc. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 10:59, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Ads
So, with the shift to Wikia, will this result in a better ability to censor such things as ads for GW Gold, running services, etc? Or will it be about the same "Ho hum, we are waiting for AdBrite" type deal? I understand it's a convoluted process at best but still, it bugs me. (T/C) 22:04, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Heh - I always forget that many users can still see ads on this (or most any other site for that matter). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:06, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I can't anymore, but you still get popup warnings sometimes from AdBrite and whatnot. So it makes a difference weather you can see them or not. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  22:08, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I used to use both Firefox and IE pretty equally ... I recently converted to Firefox almost 100% of the time - with the AdBlock Plus and NoScript add-ons, it's rare to see an ad on ANY site anymore ... not even popup warnings. :-) --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:14, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Ads? What's that? :P sad to say.... I haven't contributed to Gravewit's ad income for a loooonnnggg time now. -- Ab.Er.Rant [[Image:User Aberrant80 Sig.png]] (msg Aberrant80) 00:06, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I believe so; when I asked them to remove some ads that violated the Guild Wars Fansite program, they were very quick and thorough about it. They also noted the problem of new violating ads constantly replacing the ones blocked, and offered to experiment with alternative ad programs that would be more effective. Within a week, a new program was set up, with zero problems or maintenance needed since then. --Rezyk 00:25, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

username cross-over
Because the DB dump is going into its own servers, does that mean that they will not (at this time) be attempting to merge user accounts from both sites? Potentially, a user with a username on this wiki could find that their username is already taken on that wiki - so I was curious how that is to be handled at this stage (I also realize that this is more of a question for them rather than Gravewit ... but I don't know how to contact those actively working the migration on their side, so I'll ask here). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:01, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * How 'bout are user contributions, I know skuld is widely known for his 10,000 or so contributions.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 22:03, 10 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wikia's GW Wiki is pretty small compared to GWiki, so I doubt this would be a big problem even if the answer was "Yes"... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * The funny thing, to me, is that according to Special:Mostlinked, there are more links to Skuld's user page than there are to the Warrior article (because every time he signed a talk page with a link to the user page)! LOL --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:08, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I recently beat out Shiro and Mallix here, hehe. Users have an unfair advantage in the regard; chances are, Skuld is linked from the Warrior article's talk page as it is. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  22:11, 10 September 2007 (CDT)


 * We'll be on our own servers and database, for now. Everything will carry over EXACTLY how it is. Gravewit 22:06, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

The question you never answered...
Are you allowed to make money off of our contributions? This site was NEVER supposed to be a for-profit site. We all knew this from day one. You used to ask for donations to pay the bills. Then one day, you quitely took off the books, then shortly after, you took out the ability to donate. I said back then you were making money and you kept quiet.

Now, years later, it turns out you ARE making money, and that you are SELLING that which does not belong to you in the first place, our contributions and work to another site and again making money off of it. Are you allowed to do this? The basic principle in people contributing to this site is that it's NOT for profit. Turns out YOU are makingmoney off of our work (if you just did your server admining part and we did not contribute, how much money you think you would have made?). This is a sham and a shame. I am sure there's a law suit to be made somewhere there. --Karlos 00:00, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Law suit for what? 23c? The contributions made by each user are usually miniscule and tiny. Worth a few pennies, at the most. You really want to start a lawsuit for barely any cash? Unless he's making billions off of this(unlikely) our individual contributions will likely be worth less than $1 for the average user. My contributions would have to be worth $200 before i bother to lift a finger, and i highly doubt they're worth anywhere near that.--Darksyde Never Again 00:05, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Do you really think he's been making $50 a month off of this? You think Wikia will give him stock and cash for a site worth $20? Are you even aware of how big this site is? As far as what you can get out of a lawsuit... How about a little old "justice"? I for one would not mind a lawsuit just to see him cough up all that money in legal expenses. Anyone know of an organization that would champion this? --Karlos 00:09, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * (edit conflict) You're completely missing the point Darksyde. Karlos is not concerned that he's not getting any money for his contributions. Karlos is questioning the sale of this wiki and its contents. -- Ab.Er.Rant [[Image:User Aberrant80 Sig.png]] (msg Aberrant80) 00:10, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Justice? Get real. This site has not costed us a thing to use.  What diference does it make if he made $2 a month of $600 a day?  Making money is not against the law.  Who cares if he got some money. Eric368 00:17, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Do you even understand the concept of what Karlos is saying? BigAstro 00:19, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, he thinks that he had no right to sell it because the site is based off contributions, now you have to figure out that I said it doesn't make a difference if he made money or not, he has a right to do whatever he wants with his site. Eric368 00:22, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * You speak definitively; are you a lawyer? BigAstro 00:24, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * "In English, this means that any original thought you create is yours, but you license it permanently to us. We create derivative works based upon your original content—that's the nature of a wiki. We, in turn, under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 license, relicense these works under the same license. This means that, while you retain copyright of your content (you could sell your original contributions to whomever you wanted, or you could license them under different terms somewhere else), we will always have the right to distribute it for free. Further, since we distribute under this license to anybody who accesses this site, everybody in the world will always have the right to distribute your contribution, and any edits to your contribution, for free, provided they are never used for a commercial purpose."


 * I think that pretty much covers it. The content we submit is and still will be free, and is not being sold, ergo no breach of liscense, and no grounds for a lawsuit.  You would literally be laughed out of the courtroom, and probably fined for bringing a frivolous lawsuit. -Gildan Bladeborn 00:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I am neither a lawyer nor a judge, thus I have no idea whether the case would stand in court or not, but ethically speaking it's ugly as hell. "It hasn't costed us a thing to use"? You are missing the big picture, sir, you aren't seeing that thousands of editors have contributed to this site, have helped it grow; you are forgetting the fact that Karlos and other major contributors have dedicated thousands of hours to this wiki, literally building it from scratch. All that work has been done for free, in good faith, and with the intention to have this information freely available to the GuildWars community. For someone to make a profit off the work of others is simply morally corrupt.
 * As for whether Gravewit has a right to legally sell this content, does the "NonCommercial" bit in "Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0" hold no weight? Everyone that contributed to this wiki released their contributions under that CC license (with a minority also dual-licensing as GFDL, for use on the GWW). Isn't Gravewit selling this site to Wikia a commercial use, thus violating the license? --Dirigible 01:06, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * As i understand, he is selling the domain name, urls and the "labor" of doing the dump. Users I am not sure about but the data can be transfered to another location if it that is not being sold, which is why full db dumps are available for free. Is Wikia using the db dump for profit? -- Xeon 01:11, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Technically, he is selling the website and the database. However, even the wbesite, it would not have been worth a dime if not for our work. People spent hours a day editing categories, sorting species and fixing articles, not to mention authoring, this is what made the wiki what it is, what gave it all those hits, not his URL, so he is selling the URL of OUR work, not just some random URL that wikia likes because it sounds pretty. --Karlos 01:48, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * (edit conflict)First, I just want to make it clear that I have little understanding of the licensing that governs this wiki or content distribution law in general for that matter, and that I am not pursuing this conversation for any malicious reasons. Back on topic, to the portion you quoted, wouldn't the sale of the site (transfer of money in exchange for the data) be a "commerical purpose"? And you're not even quoting me the full license, but rather a paraphrased version written by contributors on this site. Here is the current version of the Creative Commons license, but the bottom of this page indicates this wiki still uses version 2.0. Regardless, is anyone on the wiki even qualified to make such determinations regarding the legal matters here? We could go back and forth forever arguing about the common sense interpretations of the license, but that has little bearing on the reality of the situation and the law itself. Perhaps someone has a reliable source on the matter? BigAstro 01:13, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Who cares if he made money off this? He has invested a great portion of his time, maintaining this site. Not one person, have I seen pitch in for Server Costs. Not even one. Besides, we edit the Wiki as a hobby, not a career. If you contribute, you are giving of your own time to help out. If you find this unfair/unjust, then QQ he deserves this opportunity. Readem (talk *contribs ) 03:27, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Readem, you have no idea what you're talking about. Archive.org copy of Ledger (now deleted). That's what was happening until, go figure, they stopped accepting donations. --Dirigible 03:57, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Probably because the ad revenue paid more than enough? Biscuits [[Image:Biscuit.png]] 06:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

As far as I'm aware gravewit giving a data dump freely and then discontinuing hosting should be legit, he's being paid to stop the servers and discontinue the domain registration, not to move data. --Tankity tank 06:32, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Any money he is making off of this (selling the domain name, selling the stopping of hosting the domain name, selling his position as server admin, ...) is based on OUR success as a community and our contribution. Success and contributions that were made under the "non-commercial" clause in the license that said that all contributions cannot be used for profit. There's no way he would be given a penny if he was selling these same sites sites 2.5 years ago. For God's sake, even the other wikis on the gamewikis.org domain are OUR ideas. --Karlos 11:14, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * On GWW, a-net claim they could not purchase guildwiki, so made their own. "Technically, it's not possible for Phil (Gravewit) to sell the content of GuildWiki." Not actually sure whether thats relevant, since I'm not even sure what it is he's selling ;). Lord of all tyria 11:22, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Karlos, tell me, when you came to Gwiki did you ask yourself "I wonder if my contributions are going to make me own this site"? I'm pretty sure you didn't. If he weren't selling it, you wouldn't be up in a bitch, he's been making money off of the ads and you never bitched about that, so i think you're just looking to cause a problem, so it'd be best if you dropped this. He owns the site, and our contributions do not make it our site. Just because you contribute to wikipedia doesn't mean you own any part of wikipedia.--Darksyde Never Again 11:28, 11 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, Mr.Oblivious, I have been complaining about this since day one (actually since about November of 05 when he started acting shady). I PAID money to support this site, this guy took donations from me and many others to set up a site which was supposed to be "fan supported" and "not for profit" and then he turned around, took the ledgers off the record, stop accepting donations and turned it into a commercial franchise. You can't do that under any law. If you want me to go dig up the countless, countless posts I have made against Gravewit's hiding of the financial records, suspected profit making, and inappropriate way of running things, I can go dig them up. Basically, legally speaing, I have a "share" in this site if it's possible to rewrite intentions after the creation of a franchise like he did, then my donation to the site can be rewritten as a stake in the franchise. Do you understand? This is a legal joke if you stop to think about it. --Karlos 11:46, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Big news tonight
Hey guys ! That move is big news ! Yes it is. At least for me. I'm the founder of the french guild wars wikia, as some of you might already know by seen my user page. I know wikia very well, i think. But, since you said it's will be like Memory-Alpha, your "new" wiki will not be a wikia like mine. I mean, your domain name wont be somethin like fr.guildwars.wiki.com isn't it ? Will it be the same as right now ? If not, that mean we will have to adapt somes thing in our french wikia because there was a sort of linking system to here.

Anyways, i hope been on your own server will prevent the bigs slowdown we experience often on the french wikia and wellcome to our big familly. TulipVorlax 01:03, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Wee!
Wikia's going to need to update this page; we just rolled the Star Wars Fanfic wiki off the top ten biggest Wikis list. :P We also shoved the Muppets and Star Trek Spinoffs down a notch. --<font color="#237d00"> Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  03:59, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

OK
What does this mean? Does it effect me in anyway at all? --The Gates Assassin 05:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm.. Did you read the article? most of it is explained there. -- Xeon 05:58, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Wikia?!
Wikia's wikis are as slow as heck, you'd think you are on dialup they are so slow. -- Hawk Skeer  10:28, 11 September 2007 (CDT)