Talk:Expert's Dexterity

Urgh. Elite, 12 seconds, preparation, 75% more Energy use, for not much more recharge speed than Serpent's Quickness would give...is there anything good about this? Arshay Duskbrow 18:08, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Uh, it works on non ranger skills and... it allows use of another stance and... it can mostly be kept up indefinitly. On the other hand, 2 seconds out of every 14 is used to make it work and the extra energy could be painful.  Definitely an R/A high expertise skill. --Crazytreeboy 18:10, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I assume this would be applied before expertise, and as such I reckon it would cost 3 energy instead of 2 for 5 energy skills... which is okay with zealous mods, I guess. What skills to spam though? The most volatile of skills, Unsuspecting, and Twisting, are critical strike. I suppose a spamming of Wild Strike and... uhm, Death Blossom? No idea. --Silk Weaker 07:31, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Five energy skills cost four energy with this elite up at 16 Expertise. Just use a Zealous mod and you'll be fine. -- crenel 17:31, 1 February 2007 (-06:00GMT)

Hehe.. 3 second irresistable blow anyone? 3.5 second dual shot? too bad you can't kindle arrows as well or that'd be insane(Not a fifty five 15:05, 26 September 2006 (CDT))


 * As it was already noted, this skill will give more benefit with low-speed weapons (compared to their respective attack skills) like hammers, scythes or hornbows. Anyway, achieving HSR for attack skills with a decent 30% energy cost reduction is not bad at all. (15 in Expertise meaning 175 * (100 - 60) = 70% of initial energy cost, if i'm not wrong with the maths). --Leonim 01:13, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

Boss with this in the SE corner of Makuun. --Fyren 06:28, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Possible Pressure Build

 * 16 marksmanship
 * 13 expertise

Expert's Dexterity coupled with some kind of IAS and Called Shot might be good pressure. Tarinoc 15:37, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Hm, nope. Horrible. Just tried it. Very horrible. Tarinoc 16:17, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Maybe with Savage Shot and Distracting Shot instead, for a lot of interruption and Hunter's Shot for pressure. --Theeth (talk)   16:24, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

How about Focused Shot if you could get it off every shot instead of every other shot youd have a strong easily spamable attack. And if its the only attack skill in the line up you wont suffer its second effect could work well with a Conjure spell or Brutal Weapon - NovaTalon 15:08, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't think so. Your typical 1-second recharge attacks recharge just fast enough to reach slightly into the next attack. For example, when you spam Poison Arrow you can already see it restarting the animation of the ranger pulling the string, so you 're already wasting a mentionable fraction of an attack there. So with a recharge of 1.5 seconds or more, this would not work out for a decent firing frequency. With 2 attack skills that both recharge at a regular 2 seconds, ok. But not one alone. RolandOfGilead 12:43, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

IMO pretty worthless. You may get a boost in recharge, but you lose out any prep bonus. I'd rather stick with oath shot or serpent's quickness. Actually, when I first saw the name of this skills, and the fact that it was in expertise, I thought maybe it would let you use your expertise attribute for marksmanship for a short while :D --GTPoompt 07:49, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

I really wish they would give us some good Expertise skills. I realize it's already an incredibly powerful attribute, but first we get Glass Arrows and Archer's Signet, now this. 9_9 Arshay Duskbrow 13:27, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Eh, I like the skill, theres a lot of pssibilites like an orders and dual/needling shot. Unfortunately I'll never use it for the same reason I never use incendiary arrows. 12 seconds, *puke* (Not a fifty five 23:23, 7 October 2006 (CDT))
 * Incendiary Arrows is an ok prep to use with Needling Shot and Quick Shot because it counts as an AoE attack. You can break apart a mob pretty fast if you need to.. otherwise stick to Kindle Arrows. -- crenel 20:16, 1 February 2007
 * You're confusing incendiary arrows with ignite arrows. Either way, Not a fifty five was commenting before a pretty dramatic change to the skill. Phool 08:22, 7 February 2007 (CST)

r/d
If you combine this with mystic sweep and eremite's attack, at 15 expertise you can spam 2 3/4 sec activation scythe attacks which crit @ 80 damage for 5 energy, nonstop. And put any stance/enchant on top of that. For a bigger spike, vital boon->twin moon->eremite's->mystic sweep->repeat as necessary. I haven't been able to make it work very well (got an RA glad point nevertheless but I had a good team) as there's no energy management for and r/d that isn't elite. The same thing would probably work better with onslaught+SQ anyway. Phool 07:44, 31 October 2006 (CST)

Capture
From the template, unknown boss



&mdash; Skuld 03:55, 3 November 2006 (CST)

pet attacks
does this affect pet attacks?--Windjammer 16:34, 21 December 2006 (CST)
 * according to attack skill article they are, guess i answered my own question--Windjammer 16:38, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Better than you think.
Try it. Focused Shot unload a pretty decent DPS, and dshot recharging in 5 seconds is just too good to miss out. --Silk Weaker 05:59, 31 December 2006 (CST)


 * That build doesn't make much sense to me. Why is SQ in there? Afaik skill recharge reduction can't stack below 50% (though a single skill can take it below, same as you get the full benefit from dash). So all SQ is doing is improving the recharge on TU and mending touch. Dshot should be recharging in less than 5 seconds, more like 2-3. Savage shot is simply too expensive under ED, all the realistic energy management ranger get is elite unfortunately and you've got no secondary emangement (unless you wanted to do stone striker+storm chaser which may be viable in some situations). You can really only hope to afford to spam one 5e bow skill, imo distracting is higher pressure than focused though they're both nice skills here. Attempting to accomplish a high damage build without IAS is kinda shooting yourself in the foot anyway. Phool 06:41, 31 December 2006 (CST)


 * Maybe I wasn't thinking. --Silk Weaker


 * You obviously don't know what you're talking about Phool. Have you tried this skill with Serpent's Quickness yet? It's especially obvious with a dagger-wielding R/A that SQ does in fact make a difference on the skill recharge. Horns of the Ox, which usually has a recharge time of 12 seconds, can be used every two or so seconds with SQ and ED up. If you attempted to use HotO without SQ up, you'd only be able to use the attack every three-ish seconds. With proper energy management, you can easily spam HotO > Falling Spider combos every 3-4 seconds. Try it yourself before you start down-talking this build idea. Also, with 8+1 Wilderness Survival, SQ lasts for 24 seconds. Why *not* use it? You have the duration of the prep to spam dagger skills. -- crenel 17:44, 1 February 2007 (-06:00GMT)


 * That's an aggressive response Crenel, especially considering that ANet has STATED that recharges don't stack beyond 50% reduction. It was a specific change back a while ago.  I'd be shocked, and would report it as a bug if it does stack, since they clearly intend them not to.  I seriously doubt that it does stack, but will check when I have time, and will report it if it does. --[[image:Epinephrine.jpg]] ~ Epinephrine 00:09, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * Not sure if I remember correctly, and I might be confusing this with IAS or some other thing. But I seem to recall Anet saying that max was a certain percentage, unless it specifically states otherwise. And considering the recharge on this thing seems to way above 50%, I'm thinking this is one of those exceptions they were talking about. Dunno for sure if it stacks with Serpent's Quickness though, I'll have to cap it to test. Everyone else seems to think so though. Shadowmist 03:52, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Every cap only applies to stacking effects. Individual effects are not limited by any cap.  --Fyren 03:56, 7 February 2007 (CST)

What about R/A?
The really nice synergy is with Golden Lotus Strike; normally GLS provides only a net 6 energy at 12 dagger mastery, every 15 seconds (~1.2 pips of energy). Get your expertise up to 14 or higher, use Expert's Dexterity and it's providing a net of 8 energy every 4 seconds or so (or 6 pips of energy), and you can fuel any assassin skill you want. You can actually spam atack skills, since they recharge fast (many skills drop below 2 second recharge this way, allowing you to walk through them). How about:

or for disruption

or some combination like this;

at 14 Expertise the recharge times for 8 second skills (e.g., Exhausting Assault, Nine Tail Strike) is 2.32 seconds, close enough that you can actually alternate Golden Phoenix Strike and the dual attack, using Golden Lotus to regain energy. At 16 Expertise (75% reduced recharge) the 12 second skills (e.g., Horns of the Ox) fall to this range, 2.52 seconds, and thus could be used every second attack. Below 16 Expertise they likely need to be in a 3 attack chain to have time to recharge.

Hmm - actually, to get the 4 second recharge from Golden Lotus Strike (to allow using it every 3rd attack for example) requires 15 expertise. Still, that would potentially save a slot, as you could use GLS, an off hand attack, and a dual attack, and simply walk through them at 15+ Expertise. GLS, Fox Fangs and Horns of the Ox would work, getting a KD every 4 seconds and easily keeping up with the energy costs.

I may give this a try tonight, but it looks ok on paper. --Epinephrine 15:31, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well, the costs are higher than I thought I thought it was 150% of cost, not +150%! It's 250% of cost as a result, really pricy.  The cost table is :

Any illusion I had of using it without Lotus is shattered, but with Lotus it was manageable, and spammed attacks pretty well. I'll have to work on an actual build, but clearly that last level of expertise makes a difference. Still, with Lotus is can generate 6 or 7 per use, and you can hit every 4 seconds, so it's a respectable 4.5 or 5.25 pips of energy, and with zealous daggers you cut the costs down. I'll keep playing with it... --Epinephrine 22:55, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * Ridiculous...you need FIFTEEN Expertise just to break even! Buffing recharge is useless if the energy cost makes it prohibitive, that's why Quickening Zephyr hurts the way it does. And it's a prep! Back to the drawing board, Anet, please... -_- Arshay Duskbrow 18:59, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, that was exactly my thought. Almost everything you might conceivably want to spam, such as Debilitating Shot, will drain you dry in no time flat.  Even 5 cost skills get insane without some kind of additional energy management.
 * So far, the most useful combo encountered has been Golden Lotus Strike, as mentioned above, to use as an energy engine. If it hits every time as soon as it recharges, at 16 expertise/12 Dagger Mastery, with no attack speed buff, you get about 4.85 pips of energy regen in equivalent.  From there, you can spam Fox Fangs -> Horns of the Ox indefinitely as soon as they're recharged.  A bit like Moebius Strike -> Horns of the Ox, except marginally less conditional.  Only 14 expertise is needed to be able to both spam and afford the skill costs, though Golden Lotus ends up recharging a little more slowly than I like at any less.
 * I was hoping that you might still get energy from Golden Lotus on a "block" or "evade", but alas, that's not the case. If that ends up happening, you start losing energy fast.  It's really not much less, if at all, fragile than Moebius->Horns it seems.  Especially the heavy attribute point investment requirement.  I'm hoping they drop the cost increase a little.  Merengue 22:52, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * On a similar theme: BLS->horns and repeat? BLS at 0 crit strikes is +5 energy. At 16 expertise from the table it appears, with a zealous mod, BLS+horns would cost (9-5-1)+(4-2) energy. Low damage but lots of KD, if an enchant is used as well as a hex GLS can be used as well to provide energy for some actual damage or alternatively tossing in a few disrupting stabs between KDs. Phool 11:51, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * "Ridiculous...you need FIFTEEN Expertise just to break even! " - I agree, it's completely absurd. When I thought it would be 150% of cost it sounded reasonable, and even at double cost it might have made some sense, but it's just silly at 250% of cost.  The only thing that can ever make it work are indeed the energy generating skills, and there are precious few of those.  Unless this skill gets a buff I don't see it working out - and if it gets a buff it could make R/A very deadly, given that it's somewhat useful for a BLS combo at this level. --[[image:Epinephrine.jpg]] ~ Epinephrine 14:33, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Cost table needed in article?
Given that it's already here, should a version be put into the article to show the interaction of skill cost, expertise and the Expert's Dexterity? -- ~ Epinephrine 14:34, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I agree and have added it to the article. If someone could check it again to make sure the numbers are right that would be great. Stexe 10:19, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Skills that this could be combined with
Striking 10 energy and above cost skills right out, striking skills that recharge in less than 5 seconds and assuming 15 Expertise: so inn my opinion, there are few useful skills with this. - Greven 12:47, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Bestial Pounce/Savage Pounce
 * Disrupting Lunge
 * Feral Lunge
 * Predator's Pounce
 * Determined Shot
 * Distracting Shot
 * Disrupting Throw
 * (Spear of Lightning)
 * Thrill of Victory
 * Pure Strike
 * Jaizhenju Strike
 * (Lyssa's Assault)
 * Blades of Steel
 * Horns of the Ox
 * Nine Tail Strike
 * Disrupting Stab
 * Golden Fox Strike
 * Golden Lotus Strike
 * Leaping Mantis Sting
 * Black Spider Strike
 * Falling Spider
 * Fox Fangs
 * Jungle Strike


 * I would add on spear of lightning and black lotus strike, also Lyssa's assault, but then I'd also remove most of the skills which are on there. For an ED build to be realistic you pretty much need r/a as nothing else has decent non-elite energy management. Phool 15:58, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Ah, you're right, I did forget Spear of Lightning. Lyssa's Assault though?  Mmm.. possibly, at 12 Scythe Mastery and 15/16 Expertise.  I'll add that too.  Why would you remove most of the skills here, though?  Oh... about Black Lotus Strike... well it's Critical Strikes, an Assassin Primary attribute, so you'd get a max of 5 energy at a cost of 10.. eh, possible but the damage bonus would suck.  - Greven 09:48, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Only Attack Skills?
IS this skill just only attack skills?


 * Yes--[[image:Epinephrine.jpg]] ~ Epinephrine 12:54, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Debilitating?
Is it just me or is this dumb. You trade more energy at less than 15 Expertise, trade even at 15 and trade 9 for 10 at 16 Expertise, while only having 3 pips of regen anyway. Seems like a pretty lousy use. -- ~ Epinephrine 22:03, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Hmmm...any thoughts on this + Tiger's Fury + Thumpy or Spear attack spam? Caramel Ni 20:53, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Idea
15 expertise, 12 axe, 6 in either wild or tactics for either heal or troll. Vampiric Axe haft. Cyclone spam. Idk if it will work. Most likely not.Dark0805 11:49, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

Combine it with Energizing Wind?
Wouldn't that reduce the costs to decent levels? - mindattack 17:13, 9 May 2007 (GMT)


 * may well do, used in this way I imagine lyssa's assault could actually act as reasonable energy management. I will test, see how things go.

Back to the R/D
I have confirmed a really good use with this on a scythe. Check this out:
 * R/D:

12 scythe mastery, 12 +1 +2 expertise; ZEALOUS scythe

'Been able to spam chilling victory with eremite's in a combo every 3 seconds. Van Wark 21:17, 14 May 2007 (CDT)