User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 6

Mover-Shaker Bot
If you check the move log (or perhaps RC, depending when you read this), you'll see that Balistic Pve is moving user's pages to their new names with the GW- prefix. I know that you could get a list of all these by looking at the contribs of the Move page script, not sure about other pages in their userspace though. Anyway, I think it'd be a lot faster to make it a bot task. One reason is the "move throttle" - the bot avoids that because it has sysop status. :p Also, it could clean up after itself by them deleting the redirects, again because it has sysop status. Lastly for bonus points, maybe it could fix all the links to those pages so that we don't add to the wanted pages unnecessarily.

I have this strange feeling that normally I should use the GW:BOT page, but oh well, I don't want to have to repeat myself in two places. (T/C) 22:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well anyways, until that happens I'll keep moving them. I've tagged most of them with delete, so hop on to it. --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 22:53, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm just a bit busy, and I'd have to check what links here and fix the links, etc. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * o i c, nvm --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 23:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That would be fairly difficult to set up, compared to the other bots I've done. It would have to first get the list of users that were renamed (where is that list, anyway?), then check Special:Prefixindex to get the list of all pages in their userspace, then for each page move it, update links to it, and delete the redirect.  I could do it, I'm just not sure if I'd have the time or the inclination right now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Would you do it if you had a list of pages that need to be moved? --◄mendel► 02:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I know that I/we ask a lot from you, so I'm sorry if it seems I'm just piling more work on you when you already have lots of other stuff to do as well. (Like RL.) But it really is appreciated. :) I think it would take about 5 days to finish it manually, since we're not even done with the A's yet. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, let's set priorities, then. Which would you rather be taken care of first: build redlinks or GW-userpage moves?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:17, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * To give a PHB response: Both. And while you're at it, get Griffin's permission. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Griffin? Narf?  o.O  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Needs more Dilbert imo [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure why this isn't a project (or is it?), but I've got a list of GW-users, minus the ones that have TOC entries here, and their un-GW-'d pages. Now I'm checking those for redirects. --◄mendel► 15:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * To the best of my programming ability, the pages that should be bot-moved are listed on User:Dr ishmael/GW-pages-tobemoved.txt. I recommend against deleting the redirects (like Wizboy and Entropy have done) because you never know what external links or redirects may yet exist, and it doesn't hurt to keep them. --◄mendel► 16:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if all we're doing now is moving, as mendel suggests, I've got a script prepared for that already. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Doing some checking before I run this, and I've discovered that for a lot of the pages listed, a GW-page already exists. Some of them are simply a redirect at one or the other location, but some of them, like User talk:Hellbringer/Archive 1 and User talk:GW-Hellbringer/Archive 1, have different content on the two pages.  What do we do with them?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Argh, I ought to write my plans down - all I checked are the move sources, not the destinations. I think we need to do those manually. --◄mendel► 17:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And if the GW-page is a redirect, do we swap the pages (move the original over the redirect, and leave the redirect at the original), or leave them as-is? &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I appended the list with the possible conflicts. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say leave redirects as-is, because that's obviously the wish of the user, and unless the original owner of the account shows up (unlikely), it's not a problem. --◄mendel► 18:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The difficulty is not to move half a userspace. I think the goal of this exercise should be to bring all of a user's pages and subpages together in one spot (the move script missed subpages). If that spot is in User: or in GW-User: doesn't matter much. --◄mendel► 18:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

About GW.Dat
I've read serveral posts by you stating that you have extracted gw.dat. I'm wondering if you can point me in the right direction on how to get tools on it? Because I'm thinking of helping the Chinese GW (since NCTaiwan was abondoned) to get ways to update their info. Please contact me at willy_sunny(at)rofantasy.com, or leave the info here, thanks. 140.116.116.76 05:24, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Be warned, it requires some mad haxxor skillz. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 05:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * May I point you here. You're not the first one to ask for a tour of the Doctor's laboratory. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, I've explained the three tools I use at the link Entropy posted. Be aware, though, that you can't get all game data out of GW.dat or by ripping in-game textures.  The only text that can easily be extracted is skill names/descriptions, item names, and some other miscellaneous stuff.  Quest/mission dialogue and everything else is encoded with a method that I haven't figured out yet.  The only textures that are really useful are skill icons and inventory icons, and for the latter, you have to have actually seen the item in-game - the   option does not download inventory icons for some reason.
 * If you have any other questions, just ask. :) &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe there is an additional compression layer in some of the gw.dat files and the icons are extracted rather than downloaded. I redownloaded a fresh gw.dat once with -image, and there was heavy hd activity when I first login and access my inventory/storage. This was also mentioned in the original gwdatbrowser thread, too bad the author lost interest after releasing it. --Evenfall 12:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Heavy HD activity could also mean that the icons are getting downloaded and saved to the .dat. --◄mendel► 16:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

What are you blowing up now?
I hope it doesn't result in a catastrophic failure that brings down the site. But if you DO learn how to make a catastrophic failure, you could probably get a list of sites that need to be obliterated if you asked :P --Gimmethegepgun 20:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, he's just fiddling with calculations for the Lucky title tracks. The template just *looks* deadly and diabolical. However if you make a few changes here and there, it will actually cause...oh, but that's a secret. :)
 * By the way, 1 / ∞ > 0. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but limx&rarr;∞ 1 / x = 0 --Gimmethegepgun 20:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Within the confines of Wikia, yeah, it's just a harmless template to calculate the lockpicks you need to max your Treasure/Lucky titles (which only works to 8 iterations, unfortunately). Outside of Wikia and the silly "Expansion depth limits", it's... well, let's just say it's not a template you'd like to meet in an alley on a dark night.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I kinda peeked at it and my head nearly exploded from all the red error messages --Gimmethegepgun 20:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Cleaned it up a bit (6,085 --> 3,626 bytes), and now it works to 9 recursions. Which means you need at least 4 ranks between the two titles to start using it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing like a wacko-scientist-job well done...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 22:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Now if only I could get him to vaccuum.... Jink 22:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * *cough*andyoucouldcleanthebathroom*cough* >.> &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, dirty loundry...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 22:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't even get me started on the laundry.... (XD love ya, hon!) Jink 22:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh come on, I wash the laundry. :P It's the folding that never gets done. >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:37, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hear hear! --JonTheMon 22:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I prefer piles anyway Ishy.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 22:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I live out of a series of laundry baskets. 208.44.247.101 22:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Luckily it's not the fondling that never gets done...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 22:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ... ever heard of ending your comments one sentence sooner? --Gimmethegepgun 23:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ...In america.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 04:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * With the help of MediaWiki! This template of mine burns with an unstoppable recursion! It's consuming parser compels me to destroy Recent Changes! Prepare Yourself! My #expr, my non-breaking space, and all of my #ifexist calls! TEMPLATE OBLITERATION! GO! GO! GO! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I plead the Third --Gimmethegepgun 06:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Out of the kitchen webcomic link --◄mendel► 09:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Mind helping me Dr Ishmael?
I was just wondering... Would you mind teaching me how to create tabs like the ones on your User Page? I'd appreciate it so much if you did! LostShadow 05:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The easiest way is to just edit my page and copy it.
 * Starting with the 8th line, which starts with a, copy the next 5 lines (don't copy the line that says Graagh).  Also copy the last two lines, both of which look like
 * Paste that into your userpage, and change the part that says  to   (the 2 is just leftover from an older version of my page).  You can add your userpage content between the two parts that you copied.
 * Go to User:Dr ishmael/Tabs2, edit the page, and copy the whole thing to User:LostShadow/Tabs2.
 * Edit your new tabs page and change the links to point to your userspace, i.e. replace "User:Dr ishmael/..." with "User:LostShadow/...".
 * To change the ordering of the tabs, move everything between the  lines (those lines denote a new table row, and each tab is a row, so you want a   between each tab).
 * That should be enough to get you started. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, I feel so dumb right now >.< Well, I'll try to get through that word for word! I'll tell you if it works or not, although I'm sure that it'll work ;) LostShadow 05:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Lmao, I am so sorry! I'll change everything back as fast as I can, I was editing yours instead of mine, Im sorry. I got it all saved though, >.< Changing it back right now LostShadow 05:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Changed it back, and once again >.< Sorry! LostShadow 05:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone makes mistakes, especially when they're new! Don't beat yourself up over it ;) Mistakes on a wiki are easy to fix - if you go to the history page, it even gives you a handy "undo" button :)  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 09:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What Wizboy said. Looks like you got it mostly figured out, though.  The light-blue boxes in the main content area are created by the &lt;div> tags - if you look at the "About me" section, you'll see the second line says   and the last line says  .  You can copy those two lines into any other section to give them the light background.  And in the second line where it says , you can edit that for any section to make it whatever color you want.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, didn't know about that Wizboy, Thanks. And also, Ishmael, Thanks for explaining what the 'div style' things did :P. Ill look into that a bit more tommorrow. Night everyone. LostShadow 05:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey Dr, Mind explaining to me how to upload an image to GuildWiki? (i.e. a character image for a character profile page.) LostShadow 05:29, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Special:Upload - You can find this link in the toolbox on the left side of your screen - "Upload image" RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, Thanks Kali, >.< Stupid me. LostShadow 05:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, once the image is up, you can link to it by typing:  [[Image:RoseOfKali_Dungeon.jpg|100px]] , where the |100px stands for the width that you want it displayed as. It will turn out like this:
 * [[Image:RoseOfKali_Dungeon.jpg|100px]] and you can clink on it to see the full size. If you don't specify any width, it will appear full size.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds easy enough. Thanks Kali. Btw, Sweet armor on your necro :) LostShadow  05:59, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) I guess, to finish off the topic, there's another way to upload images. You can create the link first, like I explained above, with the name you want, and save or preview the page.  The link will appear in red.  Click on it (or open the red link in new tab, if you haven't saved the page yet), and it will ask you to upload the image in its place.  If you just did preview, then you can hit preview again, and the image will appear instead of the red link, so you can save the page now knowing what it looks like.  The preview way is useful if you are trying to decide on a particular width and aren't sure what it will look like ahead of time, saving you a bunch of edit entries in the history of the page, which people often call Recent Changes (RC) Spam.  The preview-first is the way I usually do it.  I hope this isn't too confusing, but you can ask me to explain again if it is, or just do it the way that works for you.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh... I think that way will work better for me (Not really good at guessing pixel sizes :P). By the way, Do you know how to add images into a signature? I tried... Didn't work so well xD

I tried adding the Profession Assassin icon, And it just showed up like this... assassin-icon-small.png LostShadow assassin-icon-small.png 06:15, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Do ya know how to fix that? I am 99% sure I put the right link, But it showed up as a non-created page. Weird.


 * I'm not sure what the problem is, but I have one tip for you to try. We usually encourage people to create a unique image for a signature, even if you just copy an existing one and upload it with a new name.  Kind of like mine, it has my name and "SIG" in its address.  Also, look at all the preferences in your signature.  Make sure "Raw Signature" is checked.  The text in my "Custom Signature" box looks like this: RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]]  This creates a link to my userpage, and puts my sig image after it.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Alright, Thanks. I'll find a good picture for my sig, and link it to my user page in the morning. Gonna go to sleep now. Adios. LostShadow


 * See Help:Signature for how to change your sig, and Help:Uploading files / Help:Displaying images for how to work with images. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Colors
I have been reading you talk page and using the instructions that you gave to Lost Shadow for creating tabs (hope you don't mind) for my own user page as I have never edited or coded wiki and whatnot, it's been very helpful. I was wondering... do you know if there is a page where I can go which will give a list of the colours and their codes? Also I uploaded an image earlier of my derv and didn't licence it. By the looks of the history you fixed it for me, and so I would like to say 'Thank-you' :) Em Jae 01:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For color codes, try Web colors.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  01:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Or try our very own Help:Color page (which is based on the wikipedia page, but has less WoT). :-P --◄mendel► 01:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, we were both too late. Felix answerd on MJ's talkpage.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  01:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I see everyone else has already hooked you up with colors - I suppose that's what I get for spending time away from the wiki to decorate my house, eh? Anyway, no, I don't mind if you copy ideas from my userpage, I copied most of it from other people anyway.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

some magic for Wintersday
Mind looking at User:Entropy/Wintersday/Wiki decorations? We want to do some fairly fancy site decorations for Wintersday, and Mendel said you should be contacted. :) (T/C) 05:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah, I was busy with some "real" decorations (we put our tree together tonight). I'll leave my comments over there.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:35, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Me has graphic skillz too![[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 17:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Make us some epic icicles then <3 or a snowball. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:17, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Epic icicle from Die Hard 2 (Actually an eyecicle lol)[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 17:41, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think that's fitting for Wintersday on a public wiki :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:07, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Canthan Ambassador
I think the 10k was the price to add it to the guild hall. Not sure, and can't check atm, though D: --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  20:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever seen this skill icon?


Sometimes I wonder about ANet...

(T/C) 10:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, actually, that was the original icons for one of the Raven skills, which were originally Eulen (German: owl) skills. Someone extracted all the new skill names and posted them on GWO about a month before release here.  Anet decided an owl form was a stupid idea, apparently, and changed it to raven, and they had all the skill icons updated except Image:Raven Blessing.jpg by the EotN Preview weekend (the two old revisions are the Owl version).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We could upload that here and put it in Category:Skill icons (outdated). --◄mendel► 16:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * An owl form would kick ass in more ways than one. Even if it had the same stats as the raven form. Which sucks. But then you could have a great joke skill template [Skills template: ORLY?] to spam at people. :) I'm also eagerly awaiting for BAMPH! to be in the game. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Y'know, that may be what they do after GW2 is released and they finally decide to stop adding new PvE skills and consumables. "We've made the game so bloody easy already, yet people STILL complain about it!  Might as well unlock BAMPH! for everyone."
 * Then Linsey will say: "No, no, don't just give it to them - I've got a great idea for a quest chain they can do to get it! I can write another book and some really silly dialogue for it!"  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, whoever wrote the dialogue for the (new) books is just full of fail. I was disappointed. Still, as long as I can claim that Guild Wars promotes literacy, I'm okay.
 * "Dev for a Day" would be a fun event to celebrate Guild Wars' fourth anniversary. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hm, that could work. They take a database snapshot at 11:59 PM, then at 12:01 AM, they unlock BAMPH! (and other goodies? :D ) and let everyone have fun with it for a day or two.  Then, when the event's over, they roll back to the snapshot.  Or heck, just open the dev server to everyone with a four-year-old account.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:subpaging
The main reason is for modularization. Separation of the logic control vs the actual snowflake code. It minimizes potential for mess up when doing changes. The larger that Common.js grows, the more likely something trivially accidental will screw everything up for everyone. It also means its' very easy for individual users to see the snowflake effect on whatever page they wish (without having a full duplicate copy of the snowflake code in their personal JS). -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 03:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't need to be babysat in my programming, thank you. It's only temporary, and it was working fine.  Now it's just more annoying for me having to go back and forth between the two pages to make changes.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, Doc, that was unnecessarily aggressive. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's nothing personal. I am not babysitting you. I do it to all MY code as well. It's just better general practice. And modularization IS the simpler method for allowing random user X to see the snowflaking effect on all other pages (as opposed to being restricted to what the community decide as being acceptable) via minimal modification of his personal JS without full duplication of the snowflake code. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 03:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the gist was: "I *was* going to do it. Don't patronize me for not doing it yet". --JonTheMon 04:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * From Ish's edit summary ("i don't see why it had to be moved to a subpage"), I got the feeling of "Why is this being done?" "I don't get why this is being done", so I explained why I did it. I am not patronizing anybody for anything they are or are not doing, as I'm not really keeping track of who did the code initially (I only backtracked the edits far enough back to answer Entropy's question), and I was unaware that Ish (+me) would be the only people expected to modify the js.


 * I did something, I saw a question regarding "why?" difference in understanding, and I answered the person who asked it explained my actions to the person who did not see the point of my actions. That was all my original post was intended to be. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 04:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Somewhat like what Jon said, it was more the way you just went and did it without bothering to look at who was working on it ("I was unaware that Ish (+me) would be the only people expected to modify the js") and giving me a chance to do it myself. You could've just said, "That should be in a subpage," and I would've done it.  [edit] It was also the way you said "Here's your culprit" when explaining to Entropy why it was showing up on the project talkpage, and how both you and Entropy completely missed where I announced that.  And the way Phalange just popped in and said it sucked (paraphrased).  On top of that, this all happened while I was helping one of my wife's characters through the final EotN quests and couldn't say anything for myself.  I guess that's what really frustrated me: had I not been playing the game this wiki's about, I could've been here on the wiki to respond to stuff.
 * So it wasn't just you, Pan, and I'm sorry I took my frustrations out on you. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's okay, Doc, you're still valuable. I mean that. I really appreciate what you've done for the Wiki (beyond the wintersday stuff, even), knowing that you're really not just a silicon mind, despite what you like to claim sometimes :) . And I have no one but myself to blame for reading posts without really reading them. Bad habit from years of RC voyeurism. :\ I did read your post, but all I took from it was "...users can easily customize..." and I was like "Oh cool!" without reading the rest. :< So if I'd bothered then we wouldn't have had this misunderstanding. I apologize. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * On what I consider to be a spin-off topic, to me "code-ownership" on the wiki is no different than ownership of regular articles. If I see an article that I feel should be altered to conform to certain stylistic/formatting pattern similar to how other articles are done, and if I have the time, I would edit it myself.  Even had I seen you were the only one working on it, it would still not occur to me that only you are expected to be modifying it. The only time I'd bother to communicate is if beforehand I know others would disagree with the changes. The wiki editing practices had led me to consider editing things myself to be less patronizing then finding out who "did it" and get that person to "fix" it.  Finding out who did what is only useful when there is obvious disagreement and communication between parties is needed to resolve the disagreement, not when a person just want to change something. Then if anyone don't understand why I made the changes, I'd explain my reasoning to those people (ideally the explanation probably should be in the edit summary, but I blindingly had thought stating what I'm doing would've sufficed).
 * So, had I have been given a second chance (but still ignorant of ishmael's stance/opinion of modularization), I think I still would have changed the code myself, with the difference of maybe testing the length limitation of the edit summary. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyways, apologies on the "culprit" thing. That was non-obvious gray-humor. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the problem is that you're not part of the official design team. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That page also doesn't list the team members, and any case I would not have thought to check that page first (nor was I altering the actual design). I noticed edits to the JS in RC, went into the JS, and only visited the affected pages to check the bugs (and then noticed the actual discussion). >_<"  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:57, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What if I'd been in the middle of editing it at the time? Suddenly I get an edit conflict and the code I'm working on isn't even in the same place anymore!  I guess next time I should post a big "DON'T EDIT - WORK IN PROGRESS!!!" notice.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe Wikipedia actually has an tag, at least AWB honors that if you check the appropriate checkbox. I hope very much that we don't need that here. --◄mendel► 19:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Additional benefits of modularization: having different code in different articles reduces potential of edit conflicts (and reduces impact of EC on Common.js), if two ppl are working on different code at the same time. Though with GuildWiki we don't really have many active js in development/adjustment for this benefit to count much d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday Userbox!
To commemorate the effort you've put into preparing GuildWiki for our Wintersday celebration, I have created a special userbox at Template:User Wintersday:

Wear it with pride! <3 09:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I thought you would be interested
I registered Disco Time [move]. Having trouble designing a fitting cape, though >.> (T/C) 09:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

DO EET NAO!!!
Make your wife get on GW so she can accept the alliance invite. 23:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, she's driving home from work right now. >.> &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

to your attention
Elementalist_Deldrimor_armor/Female --> Dyed --> Back --> wrong image. RoseOfKali 06:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Bring it up with Khaza'dum (where the HELL do I think I know that from? WC3?) --Gimmethegepgun 06:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ishy was re-uploading the gallery. I think he just grabbed the wrong image.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 07:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Gimme, I hate to point this out, but Khazad Guard= *gulp* Runescape .[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  07:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he's not on here much. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 07:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * At least it's not World of Failcraft. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would do it, but I'm poor, and don't have a female ele.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 07:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would do it, but I'm poor, and I know an ugly thing when I see it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks to whoever noticed that, it's fixed. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, why is the Thaumaturgic Robes image shorter in the Individual Pieces overview? Is only the first image size-restricted in the template, and the others not?  Seems like it, since the Necromancer version has the chest piece image UPsized.  I don't want to mess with the template, it's your domain.  Fix it PLZ.  I thought you'd notice that fixing the first bug, but I guess you didn't. :P  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw it, but didn't have time to fix it. I must've missed that one when I changed everything from 135px to x375px.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Bug template image
So anyway, what happened to it? Every bug template displays a text link to the Bug.png image instead of the actual image, and there's no way to track down the picture. O_o All I keep getting are redirects and text on whatever I click. RoseOfKali 23:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's working fine for me.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 23:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the wiki bugs out on stuff like that. Do a purge-refresh, and if that doesn't work wait a few hours. It will fix itself.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's a cache problem, either on Wikia's caches or your browser cache. Purging can sometimes fix it if it's an issuewith Wikia's front-end cache, and a force-refresh in your browser can fix it if it's on your end.  If neither of those work, then it's a Wikia back-end cache issue, and you'll just have to wait it out.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been like that for like a week for me. How do I purge?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * <-- add to the end of the URL. Or add this to your js file to get a "purge" tab on every page.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh. Ctrl+F5 fixed it... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

list of unattributed images
The list here is outdated, the last current dump is of Dec 3rd, so I am hoping a new one will be out within the next 24 hours. Shall I extract the list, or do you want the awk scripts to do it, or (third option) would you rather keep relying on the special page? --◄mendel► 18:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Using the special page lets me keep the list at a manageable length, although I could just cull sections from your master list, too. Go ahead and update it if you want to.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Updated. --◄mendel► 01:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Image:No Steam Bug.jpg‎, Image:Overlapping.jpg‎
Your bot marks MediaWiki screenshots as Guild Wars screenshots. Might want to fix that =). Cress Arvein 04:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I did that intentionally. Screenshots of the wiki that include GW images have to have both license templates, it's been done before.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

1337.jpg
Not a wiki error; IcyFiftyFive created that page like you would create any other page rather than by uploading the image. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  19:53, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, well then. Still, no image, no need for page.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

reversion on hunger and abyssal
I had not really considered the impact of a larger image. Thank you for telling me. I made the mistake of not really checking the image size, and while many may have faster connections some do not. So long story short I reverted them to the much smaller images, or rather am reverting them. I would still like to keep them hosted here I will put them on my page so that anyone can use them for art or whatever. Oh, and thank you for fixing that on the baby pic much appreciated. Tenetke Mekko 17:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Something I just thought of, you could do something similar to the High-resolution skill icons and start a gallery of high-quality, background-less monster images. I'm sure someone out there can come up with creative ways to make use of them.
 * Mendel seems to be pretty well-read on copyright issues, so he can probably improve on what I did for the baby picture, but you're welcome anyway. :) &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't GWW have such images for...everything...already? I wouldn't mind putting them in a separate gallery, but like the Doctor, I prefer to see the creatures as they actually would look in-game. (Besides, images like this are just too good.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For many things, yes, they have official renders by Emily Diehl, which we were denied permission to use here. There are also some created by users, like I just found some by AntiLamer.  There's just something a bit... antiseptic? clinical? about the white-background renders/photoshops, which is why I don't like browsing monster info on GWW.  Like you, I prefer the liveliness and ambiance you get with actual in-game images.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess you just get used to the text book look of things. I spend a fair amount of time looking at different diagrams that way so it sort of seems natural to me. I will keep my own gallery of them just because I like looking at them. I like that image btw that you posted entropy. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 19:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

When your witchcraft and/or sorcery and/or apocalyptic plans are done...
What will we really see with that snow thing anyway? :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This, but with prettier snowflakes. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * lol on that page one of the snowflakes links to just plain dynamicdrive.com for some reason. Just one. OOH PRETTY SNOWFLAKES! And ZOMG awesomesauce snowflakes! --Gimmethegepgun 21:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that and edited the link out. Pretty sneaky of them.  And WOW, I never knew frozen water could take on so many different crystal forms.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither did I, and was gonna make a comment about silly editors making snowflakes that DIDN'T have 6 sides for those flakes you got, so I went to wiki and found that article, which kinda killed my criticism there :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

new users
Is there a way to detect a newly-registered users and post a default message on their talk telling them about the basic rules, like signature images, the tilde signing of posts, and some Help reference links that we already have? If that already exists, can I see it? RoseOfKali 21:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh, ooh, and can something like this be done for IP's? Like when they make an edit as an IP, can they be redirected to a rules/help links page? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Welcome templates are baed D: --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we have ever had User creation log installed. Also, welcome templates are baed D: [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is a welcome template bad? What's wrong with giving new users some links to important stuff like policies and FAQs?  If it lowers the amount of time I have to spend telling people to use descriptive image names or select the right licensing option or not to use a skill icon as their sig icon, I don't see anything "baed" about it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * When Welcome Templates Go Rogue [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ryudo obviously has no sense of humor, otherwise he wouldn't have reacted so harshly to Eloc's mistake. Seems like he got into a few other messes, too.
 * Raptors and Y0 are dumbasses.
 * I still don't see anything wrong with a generalized template that provides users with links to helpful information. Leave out any patronizing language ("I highly recommend you check out this page for n00bs"), and it should be fine.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Last sentence for truth. It's not the concept of offering help that offends me, it's the idea of forcing it on people whether they want it or not, and/or coming off as patronizing/ the general "form letter feeling". (You remember I wanted to name to give people tips for image uploading, and Felix complained? Same concept.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ishy. I think a well though-out welcome message with absolutely no personal messages would be a good thing for those who just plain don't know where to look for those links or policies, or those who just haven't given it a second thought. I realize that many people will dismiss a "bot-looking" message, and those are the users who also often turn out to be trolls or vandals.  But those who actually care about doing things right from the start will read it and find it informative.  I know I for sure would have, considering I was banned for RV-1 without any real warning, not even knowing about the rule, or the fact that the ban was only temporary.  There are many net communities out there, and the rules vary considerably, so if someone comes here from another forum, they may be in for a surprise, and I think it's our responsibility to make sure they know what's going on from the get-go.  I don't think anyone will get mad at a bot posting a welcome message with links to rules or conduct and other policies and customs of this wiki.  I mean, what's the point of getting mad at a bot, regardless of circumstances?  It's not like an admin or another registered user posting on a talkpage saying (figuratively) "Hey, noob, check out these links," giving the new user a target for being upset.  People are sensitive, and when they realize that there's a real person on the other end telling them what they did wrong or what they haven't done that they were supposed to (i.e. signatures), they take it as a personal attack, same as being called "noob" for the smallest slip.  But when they get an immadiate automated listing of these rules, they just might read it without getting personal about it.  I think it would save us a lot of talkpage explanations of how things work here.  And I personally think that drawing attention to something with a "You have a new message on your talkpage" is much more effective than expecting a new user to look for policies on their own before they begin contributing.  Again, I also think that a redirect (if possible) for IP's after a contribution would also be useful, since many users begin contributing before registration.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Shared and changing IPs kill the redirect idea, for the most part. --  Shadowcrest  23:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Make the IP's redirect every time until the user registers. If nothing else, it'll reduce the number of IP edits from registered users, and will apply every time someone uses a shared IP (like in a library or something).  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "redirect for IPs after a contribution"? Do you mean redirecting the IP's page to the user's page after they register?  That's not really reliable, unless someone has a non-dynamic IP (dorm rooms, company workstations, etc.), which is why some people will create those redirects (I think Entropy and Felix have both done that).  Dial-up will rarely get the same IP twice, but even cable/dsl aren't guaranteed the same IP if they have to restart their modem.  No, I think all we can do for IPs is encourage them to register (as if the Wikia ads weren't enough >.>), and then we can welcome them and everything.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

No, what I meant is redirect IP's after each contribution to a pre-made help page with all those useful guides that everyone has worked so hard on. Have a welcome message at the top, encouraging them to register, and then have a helpful links section following it. After the user registers, simply place a very short message with a link to that same "Welcome page" in their talk (in case they ever wanted to revisit it), and never mention it again, leaving it up to them to read it or delete it or whatever. Another option is to make an eye-catching banner at the top of IP pages, kind of like the "Have a suggestion for GuildWiki?" one, with a link to that awesomely wonderful help page, that can only be dismissed by registered users. RoseOfKali 01:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We can do that with MediaWiki:Anonnotice (a sitenotice that only displays for anons and can't be dismissed) instead of posting a message to every IP's talkpage. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I hate welcome templates. I may have been editing template code on another wiki to help out, and I get a welcome template that basically says, "Hey newb, here's how a wiki works". I suggest the following:
 * Make a new editor FAQ that actually adresses the problems and questions new editors ask (including, maybe, a guide on how to make kickass character pages?). I started compiling stuff on New User FAQ but it needs more work.
 * Make "seasoned editor FAQ" that details how GuildWiki works different than GWW, Wikipedia, and other Wikia wikis.
 * Make a really really short template that links to these two articles (if you are fairly new to wiki-editing, click here now. If you have edited other wikis before, click here to find out what's different on GuildWiki) and an option to include "I want to draw your attention especially to section xyz on the FAQ" to address any issues you may have noticed the newb having. Until these articles are done, and cleared of stuff that we may think sounds cool to have but nobody really needs (like "what is an admin", that should go on GW:AI because I have never used it again since I added it), having a welcome template can just be detrimental to our street cred as friendly wiki. --◄mendel► 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Frequently asked questions <-- &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That FAQ needs more improvement than you already did to it; I feel it is curt to the point of being unfriendly, the section titles don't help navigating it quickly, and the precious first spot at the top is wasted on people who made an account to edit here. --◄mendel► 03:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Then improve it already. Sometimes I feel like I'm expected to do everything around here.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that's my job. I'm just good at outsourcing, and no one nags me if I don't get anything done... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) I agree that it is a very sensitive topic, and needs to be well thought-out. I also think that it is necessary to draw the attention of new users to our rules and help topics. Mendel's idea of having a short template that links to a "new user FAQ" and "seasoned user FAQ" or something along those lines sounds good. I still think that the Anonnotice thing that Ishy pointed out could be effectively used to provide a quick link for new users. One short sentence with a link is enough, but it's there for them to see and use if they so decide. No need to boss anyone around with noob rants, and it should be small enough that even the lazy "seasoned" users who don't bother to sign in will not be too annoyed by it. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

RC finagling
Hey, I made some changes to my css that makes the RC box look like normal. Just letting you know.--JonTheMon 00:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mine are better. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you opened the Namespace drop-down? For me, your settings make all the options appear side-by-side in a single row.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:10, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh, I get the same thing with Entropy's css, too. Must be something in how the WebDev extension applies css to an already-rendered page.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because you're using FireFox. It works perfectly on IE. Jajaja. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me on Chrome. --JonTheMon 13:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Weird, it's actually Firefox doing that. Meh, I don't mind the default appearance - I actually like the border, it sets that stuff off from the actual RC listing.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about updates
Thanks, I just didn't want to break anything. I will look at your edit though and figure out what I was doing wrong. Thanks again Tenetke Mekko 15:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You didn't do anything wrong, the edit you made was correct. There was one thing you simply didn't do, that was to rotate the inclusions the same way you rotated the links.  Seriously, stop beating yourself up so much. :P  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Better watch out
javascript:var li, liUser = document.evaluate( '//div[@id="bodyContent"]//li[ a[4]/@title = "User:Dr ishmael" ]', document, null, XPathResult.UNORDERED_NODE_ITERATOR_TYPE, null ); var remove = new Array; while ( li = liUser.iterateNext ) { remove.push( li ) } for ( var i = 0; i < remove.length; i++ ) { remove[i].parentNode.removeChild( remove[i] ); } void(0);

This will hide you from my RC. I've now made it my lifelong goal to convert this into a useable .js function. :p (T/C) 04:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * =O I is scared.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

BAMPH!
I just want to say that I truly appreciate all the work you've done for the Wintersday decorations, on top of all the other projects you manage to juggle. I know that sometimes you feel like you're expected to do everything around here, and it's true that there are a lot of implied demands. (Which is probably my fault.) A few of us could work a bit harder, too...*eyes self*. Still, I want it to be clear that I don't have any sorts of expectations for you: you've done an incredible amount of work since being sysopped, going far above and beyond the call of duty so to speak. I think you're well deserving of a break and no one would begrudge you that. ;) (T/C) 19:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. ^_^ I know it's not as bad as I make it sound, I just get a bit emotional/melodramatic sometimes.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Something you need to do...
Take a break and have a Merry Christmas. :) Sorry, I couldn't help myself after the above. And it's true, you're one of the people who keeps this site afloat. Thanks! RoseOfKali 19:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Birthday_Present.jpg|<--Click the arrow...]] for you :) -> you should get a pink one ;) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * O_O NUUUU!!! Someone is challenging my chickeny domination! I must destroy them...  I'll tell Pedro they're making the chickens kill bunnies as part of their training. >:D  (srsly, wish I'd thought of that first... >.>)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:40, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Jingle Bear
Did you add back "Miniature Polar Bear and" just now on purpose, or was that an accident? Because the Mini Polar Bear IS of Ursula the White, so obviously they'd look the same. 01:51, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Accident - I took it back out when I fixed up the description. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Jolly good. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Palm Strike Note
Your reasoning why it is obvious (because it's a skill) doesn't quite ring true. There are spells and a signet that require parts of the chain, to say nothing of another skill. The real reason it should be obvious it doesn't need a lead attack is because nowhere in its description does it say it requires one. And the other notes are just as obvious. I think it's a valid note, perhaps just because I've run into a disheartening number of people that don't understand how it works. I'm in favor of restoring the note, but I have no intention of going over your head to do so. Care to discuss? <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli 15:16, 20 December 2008 (UTC)