Talk:Guild Wars Eye of the North

Early
come on.. Skuld  05:05, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * come on? with Factions edging out of the way.. people need some false hope in info boxes... they were starting to run out... --Jamie 05:06, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * We won't be doing anything with this article for quite a while, but anyway, no damage done by creating it. If ANet started working on it, so can we. ;) --Tetris L [[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L block]] 05:20, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm pretty sure this is the campaign which will have the "kill everything, speed up team, pets turn into 'the darknesses' and then finish by the whole team doing the warrior dance" skill... the only problem is by Campaign 6 it will be nerfed by requiring 30 energy & 13 points into strength --Jamie 05:27, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Then you equip a nice off-hand which gives you 12 energy for 9 blood magic or something and use the skill again. End of story. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|User:Gem]] 05:34, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

This page implies that campaign 4 has been announced or reliable information has been given about it. I don't think anything has been said about it. The article states "Campaign Four (a.k.a. Chapter Four) is an upcoming stand-alone product"; how do we know one is comming? I think this article should be deleted or hidden until information regarding campaign 4 has actually been released. ~ --IAmAI 05:39, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * ANet did say that they are working on it, more of less explicitely, during E3 2006 and before (see for example the link provided in the "External Links" section). As ANet stick to their 6 months release cycle with two teams working on two future campaigns simultanously for roughly 1 year each the Factions team has gradually moved over to the 4th camapign at around the time Factions was released. At that time the other team had been working on campaign three for 1/2 year already. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 05:57, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Fair enough, although nothing has been announced about, except that it will exist. Is that right? --IAmAI 05:59, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Actually, we don't know if it will exist. We only know it's currently being worked on by the original Factions team (plus normal expectation of coming and going of team ppl).  It could get cancelled or whatever in the fututre. - 06:07, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

This article, in it's present state, can be replicated for Campaign Six, Campaign Fourteen and Campaign Thirty Nine. It's empty. Even the link says nothing. What gives? --Karlos 07:31, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, it was premature to create the article, and didn't make much sense. But now that's there it wouldn't make much sense to delete it either, then recreate it in a few months when ANet releases the first tidbits of info. Just let it sit there, idle, and leave it alone. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:23, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * To me, the difference in Chapter 4 and Chapter 13 is that this is confirmed to be in development. So we already know the page will be needed anyway, and why would it matter exactly when it was created in that case? Chapter 5 may not be out since it's not confirmed, but it also may, although that article would be too uncertain to create. -- 213.113.67.150 12:37, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

If we know it's in development, then that should be in the article, right? There's two sources, one being the (removed) link and the other being inference from ANet's "12 month development, 6 month release cycle" claim. --68.142.14.34 08:55, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmmm, the first few times I tried that link, it didn't display an article - only had the "spiffy" and "iffy" sections and a couple advertisements under it. Looks like it may have been a database glitch, as an article now comes up.  Still the extent of mention of Campaign 4 in it appears to be "They wanted to get the word out that development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway", which doesn't seem enough to justify the link to me as it provides zero information on it outside of 'we're working on it'.  If someone disagrees, they could add it back in. - Barek (talk • contribs) -
 * I disagree, it's oane of the reasons for creating this article the fact that they said they are working on it. And as a side note please sign your coments!--Phoenix [[Image:Phoenix_Benu.png]] 06:27, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I usually remember to sign them, adding it in now.
 * On the article, I still disagree that a half sentence mention justifies being added as a link; but I don't feel strongly enough about it to debate the point and won't protest further than this that it's back. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 08:17, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Think this way, ANet confirms that will be Campaign 3 for Guildwars but still under development and no official title confirm for it. Also ANet not confirm it will be the last Campaign for Guildwars which mean there are high possibility for Campaign 4 coming out later on. But this not count there will be Campaign 5, because Campaign 4 still a possibility which it cant be count to make Campaign 5 will be there. --Gusnana1412 07:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wild random speculations ... well, even more of it
With ArenaNet showing a tendancy towards themeing based off of Earth cultures, I can't help but wonder who will be next? Mayan? Mongolian? Southern-Pacific Islander? Eskimo? I know, it's pointless speculation / rambling (which, lets face it, is nothing new for the talk pages). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I hear this one is going to be based more around German/French cultures. Necromancers can delight in the new skills, Beer Drinker and Consume Cheese. --Black Ark 02:29, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Okay, drawing some comparisons.
 * Ascalon - mediaeval and rennaissance western Europe
 * Kryta - Polynesians (tattoos), Inca and Mesoamericans (architecture)
 * Orr - Middle East based on Khilbron's title and accent
 * Deldrimoor - Vikings
 * Cantha - China, Japan and Korea
 * Kurzicks - Germany, Eastern Europe
 * Luxons - Greece, Bedouins (they're both nomadic herders and the Jade Sea is pretty much a really exotic, magically created rocky desert)
 * Elona - Africa, Middle East
 * There's also some pretty clear Greco-Roman influences in Paragon armour. I think the most likely candidates for Campaign 4 are India, the Americas and Australia, assuming that none of them are covered in Nightfall, although covering the entire arctic circle is also an interesting possibility. I strongly suspect that the three major civilisations in Nightfall correspond to Africa, the Middle East and the Roman Empire. The Egypt analog could be part of any of the three major civilisations, or it could be a cosmopolitan trade center where they all overlap. -- Gordon Ecker 03:44, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, being an East Asian myself, the whole GWF Campaign is purely East Asian, mainly concentrating on China, Japan and Korea, but is partly touching the rest of East Asia as well. The Kurzick theme is also East Asian, it was based on the Japanese.  The 'gothic' theme came from Japan.  Luxon is Korean.  Historically also, Korea and Japan are age-long enemies (heck even now they have hatred to each other), hence they after the Kurzick and Luxon theme from them.  The rest of Cantha is typical of the rest of East Asia like the compact wooden houses which is typical of Vietnam, Malaya (old Malaysia), Indonesia (in the past), and the Philippines (some parts of the country).


 * For the sake of discussion, maybe Campaign 4 will be ancient South America, probably be Aztec theme. Just a thought ;) --- Laibcoms (Contribs) - July 31, 2006 Monday, 8:00PM Philippine Time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laibcoms (talk &bull; contribs) 06:09, 31 July 2006 (CDT).


 * Laibcoms: I don't know about the look, but at least the Kurzick names are clearly European (Germanic/Slavic). Similar for the Luxon, they are clearly Greek inspired. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 06:27, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ah, I see where you're coming from. I agree, they are more European than Asian.  Now that you mentioned it, I wonder why they chose it to be like that.  Maybe because the "Gothic Japan" is a modern 'image' of their culture instead of 'medieval'.  --- Laibcoms (Contribs) - July 31, 2006 Monday, 9:00PM Philippine Time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Laibcoms (talk &bull; contribs) 08:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT).


 * I think ANet did it to make clear that Kurzicks and Luxons are peoples of their own, with a culture separate from the Cathans. Hence the distinctively different theme. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:24, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I must say, I'm pretty pleased with what I've seen from the Nightfall campaign so far, it looks much more promising than Factions did - at this moment. Profession-wise, I was afraid that we'd see a "Pirate"-class to balance out the Assassin's "ninja". Not that I don't like pirates, it's just that the whole "Pirate vs Ninja"-thing is incredibly old meme. I honestly don't know what to expect from campaign four, profession-wise - I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of a gunslinger-class (say, less damage than bows, faster shots, straight range as opposed to the arc from bows, you can take it from there) and maybe some kind of Shaman-class (I'm really trying to stray from the native-analog, and I'm failing) although the Ritualist-class already tries to cover that ground, however feeble. I know this isn't plausible, but I'd enjoy seeing scenery reminiscent of that of pre-searing Ascalon in campaign four. Maybe some remotely rennaisance-Italian settings? I'm just brainfarting here. So I did that before in this talk-page, who cares. I don't know, maybe aliens will show up in the world of Guild Wars and beam us all up to the moon to fight their Brood Queen. Dibs on the Flamethrower-class. --Black Ark 06:24, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I have to agree with you, it does seem promising indeed. I'm very curious to where Paragons originate from. Not what population they're based on that is, but more what kind of civilization they come from. Granted all other professions aren't associated with a land as such, but I think that will be hard to avoid in Nightfall considering the very distinct professions.


 * If I were to guess wildly about chapter four, I'd guess it will be based on New Zealand/Australia. Partly for the interresting landscapes, but mainly cause, well we haven't seen anything that resembles that yet (possibly New Zealand as Kryta, but it doesn't seem too similar to me). &mdash; Galil  09:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

new classes : The Savage and Engineer :P (or the hippy) or a class that is like the mesmer but messes up the persons mouse and keyboard lol


 * I would like to see profession with Crossbow, Lasso (cowboy xD), Boomerang and Bugs (manipulate bugs as a weapons) -Gusnana1412 12:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

It has been said that all four chapters are related in someway and #4 will tie them together, while also including orr. If Ascolon was France/England, the hiverpeaks were the Norse areas, Kyrta was the carrbian, the desert was the middle east, and and the jungle was deep south America, orr will probebly be a mix beteen Spanish and classic central america. --68.192.188.142 11:34, 1 September 2006 (CDT)


 * According to the official Taiwanese website, there's some connection between Factions and Nightfall. I'm also pretty sure that one of the preview articles was referring to the first three campaigns as a trilogy, however that could've been speculation. Have you got a source for that four campaigns rumour? And does anyone have the URL for the article with the trilogy comment? -- Gordon Ecker 21:09, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Although everything is speculation, there are a lot of interesting and good points that people have made here. An arctic theme would be interesting, possibly involving the story of the dwarves, with themes of Norse, Icelandic, Russian, Alaskan, Inuit, northern Canada, etc. However, I think people would get tired of the same white snow environments. Unless they made snow different colors :-P.

Who knows, possibly going underwater, some lost underwater city or civilization/race, possibly related to the remains of Orr. Then you have a seaweed, fish, water, etc themes. Just my imaginative ramblings. :-) -- theSpectator talk 02:34, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

I expect to see flail or mace wielding heavy armor characters. Perhaps a savage barbarian wielding 2 weapons at once :) It would be extremely lame if they would make a seperate class that wields crossbows. U could just simply make them into a ranger weapon.

An underwater race would be very interesting. I can see them throwing fishing nets on people to snare and kill them with that threeheaded spear thingy (sorry im not English :P). [Sondor]
 * That thingummy, the three-headed spear, is known as a Trident. Furthermore, while I still think it's a bit early, maybe starting around chapter five or so, A-Net has yet to tap into the vast potential gold mine of different races. --67.165.22.236 18:34, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Maybe some "sharks with friggin' lasers beams" for the killing. Their abilities would be the new shouts "I'm lazering your eyes!" while a little chat bubble appears above your head saying "OMG! My eyes are melting in pain!" It's for the best. --Mgrinshpon 17:32, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * In that case, we better also have the ability to fly in that chapter, so there can be Snakes! on a Plane! &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif]] kyrasantae  &#91;t |c &#93;  17:45, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

 Oh! Oh! I want to speculate on professions too! Well... let me get into this by saying:
 * Ritualist was a combination of Monk and Necromancer.. with a tiny bit of Elementalist (lightning spells)
 * Dervish seems to be, at the heart, a mixture of Warrior and Elementalist (scythe-wielding fighter with earth and cold magic) but also a tiny bit of Monk (holy skills)
 * What profession are left? Ranger and Mesmer, of course! Assassins and Paragons are spin-offs in their own right--so they don't count. :)
 * So then, what do you get when you combine the most "nature-obsessed skin-hugging tights" profession with another profession that likes to "play with foe's heads and dress in fancy clothing"?
 * (Nature + Earth) + (Illusions + Beauty) = Werebunnies! And they say I'm not good at math...
 * But seriously, shapeshifting into creatures is a very viable outcome of the two. Think of Magic: the Gathering. Green and Blue. What is a common creature type of the two? Beasts and Mutants; Saprolings and Illusions!
 * Comparisons can be further developed if anyone is familiar with M:tG's recent Simic guild from Ravnica. They wouldn't steal the abilities of others--but only adapt from them!
 * So in conclusion, I think a profession that can "learn" (take that as you may) other's actions and adapt to almost any situation with the aid of natural illusions could be possible... but with that special Guild Wars flair--I would hope it to be more than that! &mdash; [[Image:FeatherSig.png|Feather]] 01:23, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

I want my dual-wielding profession!

No, really. 2 one handed weapons.

Like +25% or 15% attack speed base, while alternating

And with each attribute point raise the speed increase. Could be a tank, or a caster. Probably a tank.

Also, they could give him special new weapons! but not coming in pairs like daggers -.-

BlastedtSee my main character! Basher Of The You! 16:17, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Ye that idea rocks maybe 1 hand could be a lower lvl of the other say 2 axes 1 hi lvl 1 slightly lower but nothing like an assasin which i think is an ele hu cant do magic n picked up the nearest peice of rubbish n tried to stab some1 with it lol. Also I think you should be able to play as a tengu. The way they hold their swords is much better than the old fashioned way. Necromantic Biscuit 14:42, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I just had an idea, based on shape-shifting - lycanthrope! Primary attribute could be shape-shifting (+5 health and +2 armour for every point in alternate form), then you could have wolf form, bear form and rat form; with new types of skills (form attacks that only work when in the corresponding form...)...could be great!

Also perhaps a monk more similar to the DnD style - unarmed combat. Primary attribute could be hand-to-hand, every point makes your unarmed strikes deal 1-2 more damage...they wouldn't need weapons, but could get a sort of 2-handed focus that boosts their energy or something...just ideas, my brain's leaking....

Gamespy article
The text says that ANet wanted to let people know that development for 3 and 4 were "well underway." This was briefly discussed up in the top section of this talk. --Fyren 15:11, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * re-re-re-added the link back in. While I originally disagreed with it, that link is really the only reason this article exists because of it saying "They wanted to get the word out that development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway, and we'd be able to get a bit of a sneak peek at the new stand-alone expansion." --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:48, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * People and their lack of reading comprehension! --Fyren 03:27, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

PC gamer magazine - Confermation
[From PC Gamer Magazine #154 November 2006]

"Nightfall may be the "apocalypse." but don't worry - Guild Wars Campaign Four is already in the works. ArenaNet is predictably close lipped about wht lies ahead, but you can expect online forums to sizzle with speculation: Storywriter Grubb promises that Nightfall will provide a few tantalizing hints. All the reason to pay extra close attention to the dialogue - you never know when an offhand remark might sqawn a whole new world."

P.S. I hope I didn't break any copyright laws.


 * Confirmation of... what? That chapter 4 exists? Of course it does. Work on it has been started after Factions was released. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 23:46, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * This is mainly meant for any1 who doesnt have 100% proof... as this is proof.


 * The GameSpy article from May 11 2006 already provided the proof when it said "development on both Campaign 3 and 4 of Guild Wars was well underway" The PC Gamer mention is mainly old news. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:57, 3 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I am NOT looking forward to campaign 4 if it's made by the same unimaginative people who made Factions. Zzzzzz. --Karlos 10:20, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Unimaginative? I would say Assassin and Ritualist are two pretty damn good classes. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 10:52, 3 October 2006 (CDT).

Most people say Factions was too rushy and therefor it sucks, but I still say is like any other campaign, just that it is a bit fast. What I see is that it's another PvE campaign easier to beat, and I still like it, just that right now, I am a bit busy beating the 3rd. campaign. Solito 09:34, 27 November 2006 (CST)

Hints in previous campaigns
I've compiled a list of unresolved plot threads as of the end of the Nightfall campaign. The only direct hint I've been able to find is the 'northern areas' given a passing mention alongside Tyria and Cantha in the Nightfall manual's timeline. Has anyone else found more direct hints? -- Gordon Ecker 01:01, 12 November 2006 (CST)
 * The Mursaat. The Mursaat themselves were resolved with extreme prejudice, but they still raised some questions. Why were they in the Crystal Desert? Why are they enemies of the Five Gods, the Lich Lord, the Titans and possibly Abaddon?
 * The Seers.
 * Dhuum and Menzies and The Fury are alive and well (or, in Dhuum's case, possibly undead).
 * The Great Giants.
 * The *spoilers for the last mission of Nightfall*.
 * The Great Dwarf and the Great Destroyer. Are they separate entities or just names the Dwarves use for more familiar gods?
 * Gwen.


 * I'd say the Mursaat and the Seers are the biggest thing that the Guild Wars World can expand upon. Afterall, they played such a big role and were pushed out of the way when the Lich and his Titans showed up.  I'm still a little confused as to whetehr they were good guys ro bad guys exactly!
 * Where I find a great big open plot hole is Kanaxai. He's an evil force at the bottom of the Jade Sea, a Demon, and the Source of all Oni.  Now, seeing as he's the only Demon outside of the Rifts (not counting those brought outside in Nightfall) he's got to be important somehow! -- Lu Zon 13 November 2006 P.S. Despite opinions... I want a Pirate Profession!
 * I'd be a fan of a Mursaat related campaign, it would call ANet to flesh out the Mursaat and their Jade minions, and very likely involve the Seer in some way. It would be interesting to include the Mursaat as allies this time around, but it'd take some adjustment for Tyrian characters. --Valentein 21:05, 17 November 2006 (CST)

There is a brief mention in the dialog of Prince Mehtu the Wise of a mysterious island - sort of Atlantis-like. I'm doubtful that anything will take place here, but I wanted to share it just in case. - Lord Ehzed 23:22, 16 November 2006 (CST)


 * I suspect that the mystery island may be related to the dark spot that appears on the map after completing Nightfall and the entrance to Nightfall's elite mission. -- Gordon Ecker 00:40, 17 November 2006 (CST)

I don't know if you can entirely consider the Charr plot resolved -- 10:24, 18 November 2006 (CST)
 * Given mention of the "northern areas" (see above), and that the Charr are from "the area far north of Ascalon", maybe there will be something up there? - Lord Ehzed 13:00, 18 November 2006 (CST)

I suspect the "northern lands" are populated by both Dwarves and Charr. I also think the early history of the Dwarves, the northern lands, the orgin of the stone summit (I think the guild itself is older then the Dwarven civil war) and Kanaxi (who was dug up by Dwarvern miners that traveled to Cantha, case and point the Dredge "found" a tunnel leading from the Shiverpeaks to Cantha, The dredge only found the tunnel and did not actully dig it). I also think the island Prince Mehtu meantions, as well as the Island of Janthir (a holy island to the White Mantel) are one in the same and this island is actully a full-fledged continent and home to the Mursaat and Seers. Thus, there are at least two more continents on Tyria. This leads to two more Guild Wars games that can be made before new games will have to start taking place on other planets.--68.192.188.142 19:33, 19 November 2006 (CST)


 * According to Eurayle Kanaxai was accidentally released by Luxon jade miners. -- Gordon Ecker 02:25, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm Faintly Sure the Charr is done, considering those two quests in the Realm of Torment where that Charr learns that the Titans are using them. Of course, that's one Charr and more often than not people don't listen to that one dude who knows what he's talking about...  But still, it's something to remember.

Considering what Eurayle says I'd say kanaxai is going to be a fun little open ended plot device for a little while, him and Urgoz could probably be used at some point if they want to do a "Sorrow's Furnace" Style upgrade to Factions... I think I said that allready somewhere, too. I'm faintly Certain, too, that from further inspection on the Mursaat and Seers that they are the best thing to expand on if A-net wants to continue it's "Tieing up loose ends" thing. I'm also faintly faint, too much Turkey...-- Lu Zon Turkey Day 2006!
 * The Watchtower Coast description in Beetletun is another open-ended item: "Historians speculate that in time out of mind, these now-ruined watchtowers guarded Kryta from some unknown northern threat. Now the crumbled towers stand like ancient stone soldiers still awaiting the arrival of that mysterious enemy from across the great saltwater lake called Giant's Basin." - the unknown northern threat could easilly be the Mursaat, Seers, Charr, the Great Giants, or even some other race yet to be introduced. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:47, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * I reckon its some other threat that drove the Charr and other groups south, and we will be seeing the area North of Tyria, where there will be plenty of snow :-) --Wormy 15:24, 27 November 2006 (CST)
 * The Antarctica comment might also hint at the northern areas, but it might just be a joke. -- Gordon Ecker 21:57, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * And The Fury is dealt with in Domain of Anguish. -- Gordon Ecker 00:23, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'd love to see some fuzzy armor for all the classes! =) &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 18:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)

What about the comment at the end of nightfall, by cynn. Can't remember the exact words, but it goes something along the lines of "Let's go home, Peace is boring"... She says it after beating abaddon

Dev Interview: Possible Chapter 4 Info - Aug. '07, Aztech/Mayans
Original posted on GuildwarsGuru forum: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10083395

Media Interview (dutch): http://media.gamevillage.nl/video/061127_interview_nightfall.wmv

--Gusnana1412 18:23, 29 November 2006 (GMT +1)

Cut'n'paste of Gaile's response from that thread:

Hey, guys,

I don't know who that gentleman is, but he doesn't work for ArenaNet, and I don't think he works for NCsoft in any capacity, either. Which begs the question of why he's being interviewed about our game.

The only information we have at present about Campaign 4 is that there will be a Campaign 4. That's it, honestly!

We have not announced any of the following:

* Release date * Location, Setting, Style, Culture, Theme * Number of characters * Title * Cost * Prerelease Plans * Event Plans * Etc.

In truth, we have not set a release date -- not even internally! So once again, I've no idea where all that "information" came from and I don't believe that it is accurate. (With no disrespect intended to whomever that mysterious interviewee is. ) __________________ Gaile Gray Community Relations Manager ArenaNet The Guild Wars Site So it looks like all that may be speculation. Or maybe she is just playing PR cover-up. --Rainith 16:33, 29 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm willing to bet that the info in the interview pretty much correct. It was leaked, and now Gaile is trying her best to hush it up. I guess somebody is in big trouble for NDA violation right now. :)
 * P.S.: This talk section has the wrong heading text. The interviewed person isn't a "dev". --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:58, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * He is from Easy Interactive. - Cracko 15:39, 3 December 2006 (CST)

Play.com are tricksy hobbitses
Take a look at this: http://www.play.com/Games/PC/RCS/3-/3275641/Guild_Wars_Campaign_4/Product.html - I hope to god this isn't right. ^^; Capcom 17:16, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * The release date is likely listed as Q1 2007 or first half 2007, and the retailer's system requires an actual fixed date so they made one up on their own - the same thing took place with prior campaigns with several retail sites. Never trust the release date shown by a retail site. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:07, 4 December 2006 (CST)