User talk:Dazra/buildarchive/Build:W/Mo Bold Forge Runner/Archive 1

Discussion
Doesn't Ascalon/Knights armour no longer have a global effect on the damage reduction? What should/would you replace the helm with?

Why no mending. I bet you never tested this build...


 * Nope, never, however I do know that it is: "comparitively rare Warrior/Monk running build" ... "The key feature of this build is the lack of any Healing Prayers skills." Did you get that? This isn't your average forge running build, its a variation with no heal :) You made a mess of the text by putting in mending, was simpler to revert. There are other pages for runners that use mending, this is not the one. 03:01, 13 February 2006 (CST)
 * This is not rare at all. Many runners who take some ammount of pride in what they do do not use Mending. Infact, it does not do much of anything but give a small regen while running, and it is very easily stripped (it is also very hard to put back on while running).


 * Certainly not the best build for running the Forge, but not becuase it doesn't have Mending. Endure Pain can kill you easily, it would be better to take a skill like Disciplined Stance which will give extra armor and block chance to help combat areas where there are alot of those trolls that throw rocks. --Sagius Truthbarron 09:06, 10 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Even the title disputes using Disciplined Stance. Its a run build, not fighting or walking build. You should NOT use Endure Pain at first running into mobs, unless you can calculate what your health will be when it ends. Endure Pain, in my runs, is only there to give the runner a extra bit of health to get to a safe spot to heal, if its needed. Any regular Drok's runner knows many safe spots to recharge. It isn't the trolls that throw rocks, its the Tundra Giants and this rocks sometimes knock down a runner, thus stopping him in his tracks. Using Disciplined Stance would not only cancel Balanced Stance if you had already activated it and Sprint for that matter, but it would slow you down should you intend to use it. Either your going to use "Charge!" with Balanced Stance or Disciplined Stance, it doesn't have the recharge or the length to be used for both skills and Disciplined Stance doesn't protect against knockdown. --Gares Redstorm 09:37, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

I use this exact skillset when running, although my runes and equipment are a little different.

I have a sup absorp and sup vigor and the rest minors. My equipment is fortitude mod on sword and the Crimson Carapace shield. The only major times I use Holy Veil are in Lornar's Pass against imps and ice giants. Since Sprint and Balanced Stance are stances and are used more often, I use the +45 health, -2 damage reduction while in stance shield. I also run with (gasp now) platemail armor with an Ascalon Helm for the +1 tactics and the -2 damage reduction. I successfully run Droks very easily, mind the occasional bad spawn.

This is not without criticism however. Why is an enchanted shield better than a stance shield? I would not think, I know I don't, run through snake dance with holy veil up at all, except at the troll tunnel where an ice golem or two usually are, and near the entrance of snake dance where Stone Summit Heretics like to hang out with Blessed Griffons. Dreadnaughts Drift, I do use it to get past the 2nd pack of summit where some golems and a heretic are. If you have holy veil up all the time all you are doing is not allowing your character to recharge his/her energy as quickly as they should. When I run it (with my platemail) I never wait around to regen energy. I do, however, wait for balanced stance to recharge a bit on occasion.

And Lieutenant's Helm I have not used, but I would think the extra armor you get from Drok's Helms would suit this build better than shorten hexes, as you have two hex fighting skills already. Holy Veil increases make hexes cost twice the casting time. Just with that you should be able to outrun some hex spells. If a hex gets you, then you have 2 quick hex busting spells, in holy veil and smite hex. --Gares Redstorm 21:21, 16 February 2006 (CST)

Mending Touch is superior in this build (and all running builds, really) than Mend Ailment. Shido 01:40, 8 November 2006 (CST)

I have never used this skillset myself, but I have seen it used firsthand (i.e., the guy doing the run was sitting right next to me in real life). It works wonderfully. I have also seen a video with a successful run using just Sprint, Charge and Balanced Stance in the skillbar, though the runner did have some amazingly good luck with spawns. Which is to say, healing is overrated. &mdash; Stabber 21:00, 16 February 2006 (CST)

&mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.132.81.32 (talk &bull; contribs) 2006-03-09 04:10:23.
 * Maybe we should make a section of variations, because new articles just with few changes would be useless.


 * "best would be a shield with both bonuses" Do these exist? --Xeeron 08:12, 9 March 2006 (CST)


 * Actually, yes. Some rare shields have (-2 damage resistance while ****) and (-2 damage resistance while ****). But they are extremely rare and would cost around 100k or more for their rarity. Not something every runner will have, or many players for that matter.
 * Although I don't agree with Skuld in that the author did not ever test this build, I do believe he/she is not using it to its potential. And the Lieutenant's Helm's duration has been reduced to 20% with March 3's update. --Gares Redstorm 08:41, 9 March 2006 (CST)


 * I happened to finally read the strategy section (I'm a procrastinator) and most looks good. Some things could be misleading however. Stating in Snake Dance that you must never run into Tundra Giants or Stone Summit Herders without Balanced Stance and "Charge!". That might not be bad advice for going through Tundra Giants, but with Sprint a player can outrun the Herders before they get off their Stomps. Even a little bump or two still will not matter. That's it :D --Gares Redstorm 03:07, 29 March 2006 (CST)

I use this exact build for running, and the lack of mending makes perfect sense. Most noobish runners are used to mending, because it works for earlier runs (pretty much any run besides southern shiverpeaks), but Mending doesn't work nearly as well as this build. It takes away energy regen for too little benefit. Plus, so many things cast shatter/remove enchants, that someone relying on the healing would find themselves stopping to cast a 10-energy spell (which takes awhile) and then having little or no energy regen. While mending works somewhat for easier runs, this run generally requires a dedicated build (to make it easier; I've seen mending runners make it, but they have a hard time in many places, while this build breezes through). The lack of mending isn't that bad, just try it out. Plus... I use this build to run anywhere, now. After I used it to droks run, I just stuck with it, and it works for running anywhere. -Auron of Neon 23:42, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

As far as I can see this is now the most common build for running Droknar's Forge. All the people who run it regularly seem to use it and I even use a variation of it on my R/Mo for lesser runs. There really is no point in debating whether this build works anymore - it is in constant use. Conclusion: This is now the standard Droks Runner Build. This article seems complete enough as it is just the build and it links to the running guide and the excellent one on gameamp. IMHO this is fine. --MasterPatricko 17:50, 5 May 2006 (CDT)


 * This build is not getting 'outdated' - if anything it is in more demand as new Canthan characters appear in Lion's Arch and immediately want runs to Beacon's Perch and from there to Droknar's. The run is not a 'thing of the past' - sorry, but I don't understand AT ALL where you got that, F G. --MasterPatricko 05:52, 7 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree with the above statement, this build is not a thing of the past. Dorknar forge is still VERY commonly used for power leveling because of the close proximity to mountain troll's I would like to see this renamed back to Droknar Forge Runner because its hard to find on the wiki if you are looking for 'droknar' or 'drok' in the builds section. --Sergeant Horvath 14:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)


 * How much of that is due to this very article (or its original source from gameamp), though? I can guarantee you that when this build article was added to the Wiki back in October last year, a non-Mending non-Healing Forge running build would indeed be seen as apostasy, as the article states. 149.9.0.21 01:00, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

Some misunderstood my old changes and just saw people are discussing if Holy Veil or Medning is better, bu I use BOTH. I use Holy Veil and Mending when I need them and of course not both together. Worms make no health problem as they don't do enough damage and the damage in Snake Dace is a lot less and Holy Veil comes in Dreadnaught's Drift and Lornarpass to survive all these hexes. I also remove Smite Hex as you almost never need a second hex remove and then you can just use Holy Veil again. And because I set Healing Prayers for Mending, I change Healing Signet with Healing Breeze. I ran with the build in the article a lot of time and I know it's good sites, but I would never use it instead of my new one. This build does not use Mending, Watchful Spirit, or any form of Healing Prayers. Among Forge runners this might seem tantamount to apostasy, but this build believes in the philosophy that

"If you must stop to heal, you're already dead." And this is simply wrong. You don't have to stop to cast Mending and Breeze takes only 1 second. The Healing Signet takes two seconds and 40 armor. It's faster to run with the Signet, but it's safer with the Breeze. -- 80.132.93.133 18:49, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
 * While I agree it is fine to stop to do a 1 second heal, Healing Breeze and Mending are bad choices for this run since by far the hardest part (the wurm cave) contains Avicara Guile which waste no time stripping any enchantments you have. Just a suggestion, I think Heal Area would be a better choice than Healing Breeze.  Heal Area heals for almost as much, it gives you all the health instantly instead of waiting on the regen (which could be a bad thing if you are close to max and are just preparing to run through a group) and it cannot be stripped. VegaObscura 09:22, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Not a build
The notes need taking out and putting in the droknar's forge running guide 01:35, 29 March 2006 (CST)
 * Agreed, and BUMP &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 18:04, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I disagree. The running technique is as much a part of the build as the skills used.  By themselves they are useless.  --Delia Rashesh (talk) 07:48, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree with Delia, this is a build, a style of running, the drok's running guide should be more generic, linking to drok's running builds, it(droks runnning guide) shouldn't be a build page. --Jamie 08:01, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

Running Weapon
"One-handed Weapon of Defense — the more armor, the better (best would be the Denravi Sword)" - not many runners use swords of defense. Most I see use an HP mod, Tanzits Cleaver is common (I use Victo's). While the Denravi sword is useful, it's so rare, it's not worth mentioning. It is a rare and costly item, and I've never seen a runner use one. I'm gonna take it out for now, but bring it up if you want it back in. -Auron of Neon 23:47, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Now that you can get a +5 energy weapon for about 15k in Cantha, it could be added again. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 14:17, 5 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I can imagine a +5 energy weapon with a +30 health mod or +5 Armor mod would be the best. Prophecies-only characters can just buy it from players coming from Cantha. --MasterPatricko 05:52, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

Build stubs clean up
Check the Build stubs talk page for more info about the clean up.


 * Unstub:
 * &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 10:56, 5 May 2006 (CDT) )
 * Gares Redstorm
 * --Delia Rashesh (talk) 14:09, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Foo
 * --MasterPatricko 17:50, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Skuld
 * Xeeron (F G has a point, but there might still be some that do the drognar run (they like the armor there more/dont have factions)
 * Jamie (I semi-agree with F G, but still I want my factions Mesmer run to Droks so I can get elites not armor. It still has a place)
 * Honorable Sarah several members of my guild use this build when running everywhere. droknars may be a dead route thanks to kaineng armor, but running is alive and well in tyria.
 * Keep:
 * Shandy
 * I use this exact build with a +5 defense weapon and crimson carapace shield. I've used this build to successfully make runs to Droks, Sanctum, and Grotto.  I wouldn't think of using any other run build. --Rururrur The Raged
 * Keep, but rename to "Bold Runner". Forge running is obsolescent, but this build is more versatile than the forge run. 70.20.64.187 21:03, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I dissagree.. forge running is not obsolete. As some have said, players still need elite skills from missions in shiverpeaks and there after. 166.66.108.117 15:13, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * You have to keep this run, because there are still a lot of people dont having factions yet to get that armor. And you need some elite skills from around droks. And for infusing your armor you have to get there later on the game anyway. So even with good armor from factions people will want to get there, but can't run there themselves. (Dragontune)
 * Delete:
 * F G. Like, this build is, or soon will be, outdated. Drokmar runs are a thing of the past.
 * Why? Did they change something fundamental about Prophecies? Or do you just mean that you can now go to LA and then get armor from Cantha? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 09:51, 12 May 2006 (CDT) )

Polish up

 * This build, as famous as it is, needs some style formatting. It looks terrible the way it is now, though the contents and its efficency is well-proven in Prophecies, and is even nowadays the most popular running build ever. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 04:41, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Complete polish-up completed. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 07:08, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

Untested
Changed to Untested due to a Update and removed the message which said to change it to Untested.

ImperialMike
I've done a lot of testing of this build with Anets most recent changes to Lornar's Pass, specifically the longer aggro range of the baddies. This build is still viable, but it takes much more skill in using it.

Running this build solo is very difficult now. However, running it with a partner or a Hench Hero like Koss seems to work. If the runner can make it though the Wurm tunnel, they will need to keep moving, resting is rarely an option anymore. Healing Signet can be used to regain the health needed, even though it allows the following baddies to catch up to the runner. If those following the runner are either Avicara or Grawl, the runner can use Healing Signet and heal faster than the damage caused by the following Avicara or Grawl. Using this strategy, the runner should be able to use Healing Signet in 3/4 places. 1) In the pass just before the Troll tunnel, 2) Just after the Troll tunnel, 3)At the end of the Wurm path before aggro of the Grawl at the end of the path, 4) After escaping from the last Wurm from the Wurm path and just before the last push to the next zone. One noticable advange to running with a Hero from Nightfall like Koss, is that in addition to controlling Koss's Charge, he will also always stay behind the runner, absorbing and taking most of the aggro following the runner. Much of the following aggro baddies will break off pursuit of the runner once Koss dies.

In addition, using one of the Monk Heros from Nightfall can help by setting the Monk Hero as a Arcane Echo/Spellbreaker. Have that Hero Spellbreak the runner just as you enter the Wurm tunnel. This allows the runner to run completely though the Wurm tunnel without losing the runner's Holy Veil, and thus the runner is in perfect shape to encounter the Ice Elementals and Siege Golems following the Wurm tunnel.

P.S. I am the author of the attached "running guide" posted on guildwars.gameamp.com ImperialMike 12:03, 4 December 2006 (CST)

New Build?!
I did about 600 successfull runs before they nerfed it a few weeks ago.

Since i changed two skills i can solo run this again succesfull.

My skill-list:

1) Mending touch (Because it removes 2 conditions + you get health for each condition removed + fast recharge. ) Thats why i dont use mend ailment anymore. Mend ailment only removes one condition and you dont receive extra health. Even Purge Conditions is not that good, because its rechargetime is too long. Most of the time you only get one or two conditions at a time.

2) Holy Veil

3) Sprint

4) Charge

5) Balanced stance

6) Signet of Stamina (will raise your level permanently +xxx health as long as you dont attack an ennemy. At strenght 13 its about +285 permanent health, so you can have basic running health of about 800 or even more)

7) Endure pain (will raise your health temporarely to about 1150 health if you use sigenet of stamina after a portal) OR you can still keep healing signet if you want healing instead of endure pain, BUT healing signet will give you -40 armor, and with the nerfed run you just DONT have time to heal in time. So let you regen health on a safe spot if there is one, otherwise keep running! Your health will regen automatically as long as you dont get a hit.

8) smite hex

'''So my changes are :

- Signet of Stamina (Nightfall skill - at the end of game - Gate of Torment (skilltrader))

- mending touch (Nightfall skill - at the end of game - Gate of Torment (skilltrader))'''

This build has been tested by myself for about 25 times succesfully. Keep in mind that you are an experienced runner, cause running is about practising a lot! Last week however was another update - several ennemies follow you almost eternally (ice gollems, avicara's, grawl), and icegollems keep casting very fast, so holy veil even does not prohibit the casting on you of hexes by them... what a pitty!

However a dual run (with a co-runner) will be safer as your partner can hold up icegollems who are following. That way the initial runner can succeed easier. He can distract ennemies as long as he can. If you split the money in droks it does not matter who dies, it just matters getting there.

Dragontune

is the Dervish runner better then the W/Mo bold forge runner? cause i cant help but feel they are killing the classic Warrior Run to droknars.

Yea, guys, if u think about it, using mending touch or purge conditions in not really necessary. Instead, use the Signet of Stamina. I mean, all u have to do is watch where the traps are being laid. The health bonus helps really well.. It's a NF skill though..

Dervs running VoS (Vow of Silence) can run Droks everytime almost, good or bad spawn. (207.108.179.88 20:14, 13 January 2007 (CST))