Talk:The Eternal Grove (mission)

Dumbed down?
Did they dumb this down since the FPE? I've now completed it with three characters using henchies only and it was only hard with the monk because I couldn't interrupt the siege attacks. In the FPE this mission gave me serious trouble and I had to do it with a human team... &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 19:23, 30 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I found this mission to be easier then I expected, however it is a lot harder to obtain master ranking with a team of henchies. Alxa 09:08, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * In the FPE, I did this mission with a full henchies team on the first attempt. Didn't find it that hard, to be honest. Just another version of THK. I had only two singers surviving, though. :) I'm not there yet with my new char. --84-175 (talk) 04:14, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I know there are bosses in this mission, but none are listed here? - Greven 23:57, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I think at the end there's always an afflicted assassin and afflicted ritualist, but I may have just always happened to get the same two and they're actually random. They had the normal afflicted elites.  --68.142.14.9 00:44, 22 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Every time I have done it (since FPE, about 10+ times), it has been the warrior first (The Afflicted Maaka) then the Ritualist and Assassin together. I thin they are level 28 though, not level 24 like in the city, but that maybe a faulty memory. --Karlos 02:33, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

I know I saw a ritualist and an assassin boss, though I forgot to bring my signet :( and I didn't get to see what skills they used. Also, it seemed that Danika and Mhenlo never ventured out beyond the gates.  Has anyone seen them do this? --Chrono traveller 09:31, 23 May 2006 (CDT)


 * The Afflicted Maaka (Enraged Smash)
 * The Afflicted Xenxo (Weapon of Quickening)
 * The Affliced ? (Shadow Form)

Those are the ones that appeared for me, i think they warrior one was prolly a random spawn, but the A and Rt are big bosses at the end Skuld  11:19, 27 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I saw the same bosses when I did this mission yesterday. -Xylia 10:34, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

They say mm's help
But id say trappers can be put to great use here as well cuz the path enemies take is fixed, you trap stairs and turtle spots.

Any character that works well vs. large groups of enemies work well. (Such as nukers and barragers). However, the minions can also absorb some damage and block up entrances more, and Minions can be constantly summoned from corpses, while other characters may run into recharge problems and are more easily killed.

Trappers do help but the problem is they have to expose themself to enemy fire and soul explosions, and with only 70 AL it's hard to keep up

Actually, trappers can do it just fine because of the +30 AL against elemental damage, which protects them from the soul explosions--lorddarkflare 21:27, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * You are very, very intelligent. Of course, the +30 armor will surely help them live through the barrage of damage as they are setting up traps. Oh wait.. -Omigawa
 * If you're a trapper, you stay away from damage. Basically, you trap for a minute before they come in and watch the explosions kill everything. However, this method is less viable if you can't trap well, as the damage is now untyped rather than cold. --Kale Ironfist 20:06, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Omigawa, please remember the No Personal Attacks policy of this site. You could have made your point without the flame. --Dixon 21 July 2007
 * Trappers are actually quite useful there. the waves (with the exception of the last waves) dont sync up so when one side is getting attacked, the other side is usually finishing up its curernt wave, which lets the trapper go trap that side. Additionally, Edge of Extinction helps quite a bit as well. --Sheep

Hard Mode
I didnt have too much trouble with other HM missions but keeping the singers alive is ridiculesly hard.

On a different note, I think it should be added under tips...to use EoE. just did in HM. Tried, failed. Tried, failed. Add EoE, done. It's really the difference between getting standard and master's in hm. Just fight slightly inside gates and place spirit in middle. 76.102.172.202 03:35, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

I tried fighting in the gates with the eoe at about level 10 it easily helped both groups during the afflicted fight got masters first try with eoe after about 4 fails.75.37.17.169 19:39, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

After being stuck on it for almost 2 days, we beat it with 6 people using 2 mm's, 2 monks, 3 ele's, and a damage warrior. One of the ele's was set to spread blind around using Blinding Surge + Epidemic which helps tons for the huge mobs and the warrior boss. The other ele's were just normal nukers with Glyph sac MS. Both MM's should use Flesh golem for a meatshield. P A R A S I T I C 14:29, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Completed this mission hard mode with 2 players and 6 heroes. We had team 1 : Ele, MM, ele SF, monk, team 2 : Necro SS, MM, monk, ele SF. While fighting the afflicted we left the 3 juggs in the middle of the north gate and 1 passive MM behind them. All 7 other were doing the south gate as fast as possible and coming back to help the north side. Juggs die fast but they re-spawn fast by the north tree, not too far. Vezz 16:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Redemptor Karl may be the absolute WORST of the hench monks....I've now died 8x trying to just get through the first part of this mission...and he is simply terrible. He is constantly running in some other direction to 'protect/heal' so that I have to worry about flagging the group; and, he then runs forward dies. Using all hench, the ONLY way to get the turtles is to run PAST/THROUGH enemies and no matter what, he seems to want to hang around rather than staying with me. It's missions like this I sometimes wish ppl were actually still doing HM...but..oh well, like DB in Elona, I'll figure this one out.

Whoever suggested EoE, I bow to you. I failed once to many times the HM Masters of this mission. Added EoE and some more defense and, done !!. Although I have to notice that on that one successful run everything seemed so easy I double checked I was in HM. I had the feeling that the aflicted were less aggressive, even at the point that only 3 H/H were standing alive resurrecting everyone else between the first and the second wave of afflicted. Just for the history my party build was : Me as Ursan Warrior Using Ebon Battle Standard of Courage on the first wave, Tahlkora with this [Owgj0sQKoSaEZEbENgTEfTnNxEA], Olias MM with this [OAJUQkCbSbOL1qAeAT0FgOdCBAA], Master of Whispers with this [OANDQTxGPL1qAeAT0FsbdCBA], Redemptor "the useless" Karl, Cynn, Professor Gai, Jamei. For the first part of the mission, I flaged Olias and Tahlkora on the left entrance. The rest of us intercepted the warriors before they spited and killed them. Then we took out the other incomming groups as they came and where they came flagging the second MM as a time buffer some times when I had to fight to sides at once. And i cleared those groups easily. At this point I setup the 3 Juggernauts to defend inside the right entrance and went for the middle Turtle. Starting the second part I putted Olias behind the Jaggernauts, Tahlkora almost to the middle-left with the spirits and the rest of the party behind me, while I was standing at the left entrance blocking and damaging. Once more I think I got lucky on this run. But it is done. Never going to go there again. :). Ne33us 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I tried using Edge of Extinction, and it seemed like it hurt my party more than it hurt the afflicted. Whatever it did, I wiped pretty fast.  Even as a beast mastery ranger, I had an easier time without it.  It's quite plausible that the skill mainly adds a big chunk of randomness--which can be a good thing in a mission as hard as this one, where failure is likely.
 * This mission is unusual in that heavy area of effect damage is not only useful, but necessary. Both luxons and afflicted seem to group up as if begging to be nuked, and most unusually for hard mode, don't get out of the way once the nukes come.  There are still enough of them to cause major problems and a rather chaotic mission.  Quizzical 00:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Turtle allies
If you let the turtles live and then trigger the first cutscene, some become your allies....this was kinda weird: http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/550/gw537qh8.jpg allied turtle and enemy turtle. Doesn't seem worth doin though, the hard mode afflicted whooped all 3 turtles fast. One of them was just movin all glitchy in circles and didn't do anything useful =/ are u sure so on;y kill the west if it is llike this? --70.231.132.65 00:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I allso just had this, but I though it was quite useful, the turtle acutally followed me like a pet does, so I was able to place it in the gates for bodyblock usages. It didn't attack though. ~ flightmare 15:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Inactive Juggs
I finished this mission today (my first Master on Grove and after first attempt ;d Im really lucky) and I noticed that when I commanded Olias to block an entry... The Juggernaut didn't do anything for a long time. Olias almost got killed and only when I started attacking Luxon Elementalists by myself with a wand, so did Jugg. Or maybe it was just luck, that he moved... &mdash; Abedeus   11:49, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Too Many Design Flaws
Seriously. This Kurzick mission is supposed to be the "counterpart to Gyala Hatchery" but it seems like a botched rush job to me. I mean, I've done both missions with all Hench, and Gyala is a walk in the park compared to this...Consider:


 * In Gyala Hatchery, almost all the allied NPCs show up as Allies on the Party menu.
 * Argo is much more useful than Danika as an uncontrolled NPC, and will actually fight.
 * The Tree Singers are all Necromancers and can't defend themselves at all. Young Turtles have Turtle Shell and so pwn them, even at Level 15.
 * In Gyala Hatchery, enemies come to you from all sides, so you "turtle". In Eternal Grove, enemies come from two points, and so you try to turtle...but then Siege Turtles come and you must leave to kill them. This leaves one point unguarded and the party is thinly spread already.
 * No real control over Juggernauts. They only follow Players, are slow as hell, and in the second half they get OWNED by Afflicted Soul Explosion.
 * Since none of the allied NPCs in Eternal Grove are Allies in the Party window, henchmen and Heroes are extremely reluctant to heal them.
 * Brother Mhenlo won't follow you around, neither will Danika, so you can't really use them for healers.
 * Tree Singers don't even move when attacked by Siege Turtle Attack. If they were all bunched up in the center it would be 100% easier mission.
 * Count Petrov (or whatever his name is) doesn't help at all.
 * Hard to keep track of Tree Singers' Health, or if they are under attack, since they're not Allies.
 * Poor Henchmen selection available at Eternal Grove as compared to Gyala Hatchery.

Et cetera, I could go on. Anyways, I'm not saying this mission is "impossible" with hench (it's not). But rather, I think that ANet made it unduly difficult for an all-AI, and would it kill them to include VITAL mission NPCs in the Allied party list? They buffed D'Alessio Seaboard's Benji Makala that way, they did it for Gyala Hatchery, they did it for just about every place you see Mhenlo or Master Togo or Danika or whoever. WHY NOT HERE? And for that matter, why not change hench AI to actually heal Vital Mission NPCs? (and not minions! grr!)

When doing this mission it reminded me a lot of Dzagonur Bastion and those damn incompetent Disciple of Secrets. But even in that mission I was able to easily get Master's with Hench, albeit with a lot of running back and forth. It really shouldn't be like that for The Eternal Grove...in Factions...before Heroes came out...I'm sure some folks got Master's with all Hench in like the FPE or whatever, I wish I had their skill (or luck). Sigh. (T/C) 14:37, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh no. A mission that is somewhat difficult? Whatever shall we do Blue.rellik 05:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Try this one in hard mode ;) It's worse than Vizunah square in HM :x I agree that compared to Gyala it's a little harder since in Gyala you can use the tick to kill most mobs beforehand, otherwise it I would prefer Grove ;) over the pesky little turtles. You can reach the Siege Turtles with a long- or flatbow from your base. Just assign a poison ranger with a simple interrupt to kill them alone, thats enough. --Birchwooda Treehug 05:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But y'see, the whole nub of her gist is that it's extremely difficult with henchies. You can't choose their skills or lock their targets, nii~paa. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah true, didn't think someone would try it with henchies only (excl. heroes). Hard to place them. --Birchwooda Treehug 10:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A mission that promotes using another player? NO WAI!!!!!! Blue.rellik 11:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I gotta say i agree on a few of the things said here but this has always been one of my favorite missions and gyala has always been harder for me a simple wammo can be a great tool in this misson..send him to the left side all the way to the luxon spawn point he can hold them forever (if hes good) then once the afflicted start comming the luxons who he didnt kill will attack the afflicted giving you a much easyier job then i usually split the rest of the team between the other 2 ways a mm helps alot ofc vs the afflicted is by far the easiest part IMO.
 * Gyala Hatchery is easy shit, even in HM. The "trick" is unnecessary. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And you cannot image that some people may not share your mind in that and have problems? Sounds pretty arrogant. --Birchwooda Treehug 12:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I can't.
 * Wait, what? Read the talkpage >.> And sue me for being elitist. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, it does seem like it was poorly made. There are so many little problems with this mission it is annoying.Gorbachev116 00:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Honestly people, do you want an easy game? If you have henchies you just have to flag them a little more and REALLY work at it. Getting a bad PUG is just as bad. What is ideal for this mission is 2 players with 3 heros each including a mm on both sides. Cake. Even so, I've played alot with heros and henchies and its nice to have a mission where you can't depend on them as much. Find some friends, experienced players prefered, and have at it. If you are that good of a player, you will not have to worry about the henchies running rampant or the Juggs "hanging out." Silentbp

Heroes
I notice my monk heroes don't automatically heal the tree singers at all, which is a huge pain. Don't they normally heal allied NPCs?
 * Nope, and that's why Cover Your Tracks is so annoying. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:37, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Life made thus level very easy in HM. Since Life heals all allied creatures in range, it heals the singers and the range is huuuuuggggeee. Because of Life, I didn't even bother try and kill any of the siege turtles except the middle ones and thus when the afflicted came, I had a extra bunch of siege turtles helping out Blue.rellik 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no Mhenlo
I've been trying to do this with an all hero/henchie team, and the strategy for it sounds like a good one. But it says to place an MM at the right gate where Mhenlo stands..... I see no Mhenlo. Anywhere. At all. I see Danika and some kurzick monk in the middle, nowhere near the gate.


 * He should be standing a little way back from where the tree singers are iirc. He will probably be named Brother Mhenlo rather than just "Mhenlo" though. If he hasnt spawned then it's probably a bug. Also "There is no Mhenlo"...what a title =D --Cobalt | Talk  20:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Mhenlo is there, the spoon isn't. --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] -- talkpage 20:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Although he will die sometimes (and disappear), I can't imagine it happening that early in the mission. I could swear he is there. Probably a bug if not. Hrm. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm experiencing this issue too. Tried resigning and restarting several times but he's definitely not there. Strange ... gonna report it to ANet. --MasterPatricko 13:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Mhenlo appears when the afflicted comes. Ninjasks89 23:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

What a mess
The main page advocates consumables, ursanway, and various other things not specific to any particular mission. It's slightly surprising that no one has come along to say bring a bonder monk, as though that were a complete strategy. We have no fewer than eight links to Juggernaut, various contradictory henchmen choices, and advice that the player ought to do physical damage, without considering that the player might be of a class that doesn't do physical damage. For that matter, the hero and henchmen choices seem to assume that the player is some particular class (or perhaps different classes in different portions of the writeup), without saying which particular class is assumed.

And amid all the meandering advice, there is precious little explanation of the basic game mechanics of the mission. It greatly helps to know which mobs come where and when to formulate a strategy, but one might well guess that whoever wrote the strategies doesn't even know. Indeed, amid all the lengthy build tactics, the one that the mission seems to be custom-made for is completely missing: drop recuperation and life in the middle to heal all party members and all allies on both sides simultaneously.

As such, this mission page desperately needs a major rewrite. I'll probably get to it in a week or so.

But there are some peculiar things about the mission. Normally in a Factions mission, I'd rather not assume the presence of heroes in easy mode. But henchmen alone do not split well, making either heroes or multiple players all but essential to get master's reward. I've gone without losing any tree singers before the cut scene with only henchmen, and done likewise after the cut scene, but never both in the same run. From reading the talk page, it doesn't look like anyone else has reliably fared better than that, either. I guess I'll have to assume heroes in order to get master's reward. Quizzical 00:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've done this mission in both NM and HM more times than I can comfortably count, and very reliably get Master's. The only issue is that I always need a second human player and we split heroway, with a monk, MM and nuker.  I've never once succeeded with henches alone.  :x [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 00:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There, that's better. For now, I left the hard mode section alone, but will almost certainly make some changes there once I try the mission in hard mode.  For that matter, I might make some changes to the other parts of the walkthrough when I try things in hard mode, too.  But at least now the basic game mechanics are explained, as well as strategies that reliably work with henchmen and heroes.  Quizzical 04:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll probably redo the hard mode section tomorrow. I'm not going to be able to assume one player with henchmen/heroes, no pve-only skills, and no consumables, as I like to assume in hard mode sections, though.  I do have a strategy that will work in that situation if you get a lot of luck, but telling people, try this approach and if you're good, you have a 4% chance of success, doesn't strike me as being the most useful advice.  If someone does have a strategy for henchmen/heroes that works in hard mode without the usual crutches for incompetent players, I'd very much like to see it.
 * As for what the strategy does involve, it often works for a party with two players, six heroes, no consumables, and no pve-only skills, regardless of the classes of the two players. Make it two skilled players who understand the strategy and I'd say it should usually work, again, regardless of their classes.  Obviously, you could replace some heroes by players, provided that you keep a decent mixture of classes, with the exception that hero minion masters are probably better than players, since I can't find the minions to death nova them in a timely manner amidst the mayhem.  Add in the typical cheats that much of the player base relies upon and it's that much easier yet.  Quizzical 08:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Henchmen/heroes hard mode
Anyone have a strategy that often works, without making excessive demands on the player's build or gear? I don't. With another player, the hard mode strategy I put on the main page works, but with just henchmen and heroes, it doesn't.  One problem is that henchmen don't get terribly useful builds; another is that they bunch up to get slaughtered together.

I'm now done with Factions hard mode, and the lack of a good henchmen/heroes strategy here is the one glaring omission. If someone has a strategy that I'd like to see it. Yes, that's quite a lot to ask of a strategy, but I've got something that works for every other (non-elite, cooperative) mission in Prophecies and Factions. I can usually get to the cut scene without losing any tree singers, and in multiple ways (either clearing or leaving the north and south siege turtle groups) but after that, things tend to fall apart. Quizzical 04:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * often works in hard mode,
 * uses only henchmen and heroes, not multiple players,
 * doesn't require any particular (primary or secondary) profession from the player,
 * doesn't rely on pve-only skills of any sort,
 * doesn't rely on consumables, and
 * doesn't rely on peculiar specialized gear from heroes,

Try the Triple Necro build, i have found that to work very well, i run it with an Ursan, but it can be run with almost any profession. I use a 2 monk, 1 warrior, 1 Nuker hench set-up and in NM its almost invincible, if you would like the builds PM me ingame, IGN:Zzes Tyan


 * Three huge problems: first, I said hard mode.  Lots of things work in easy mode.  Second, I said no pve-only skills of any sort.  If you're running ursan, that's about as far from not relying on pve-only skills as is possible.  Third, a list of builds is not a strategy.  Any set of builds is guaranteed to fail if all you do is stand at the initial spawn location and do nothing.  Quizzical 20:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree about this very painful mission (which I have always hated--thank god we have heroes now, did it in early days pre-heroes UGGGH), no good general strategy (in HM) is likely to work with only heroes and henchies. You really need a second human.  I did all but 3 missions HM with only heroes and henchies in Cantha, and using no consumables, either (including Raisu Palace).  However, Arborstone just seems to need a Celerity consumable because of the collapsing ceiling (that constantly 'knows' exactly when to fall and interrupt your most important skill) and Vizunah just to get around like mad.  Unwaking Waters was a piece of cake, but arranged to have another human with H/H on other side.  We used 3 consumables here, Grails, Armors and Celerites and even so, a bit difficult. Barrage/Splinter weapon (me being a ranger) was very effective against the afflicted. Did not think to bring Edge of Extinction, tho, which (for afflicted) would have helped alot.  GW-Susan 21:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (Vizunah = Charge and such, tbh. IWAY/MM too.) Well you can move out of the fast collapsing spots in Arborstone; it's more the problem that Danika won't. >.> Same problem here is that you have dumb NPCs...but it's worse cause they're not even on your party list so you can't easily heal them. It's been recommended to take Life and such, and that doesn seem to help a lot. I'd be careful with EoE since you could chain-bomb the Treehuggers accidentally...
 * Hard mission is hard, even in NM. I mean, if you have no choice but to H/H that's one thing, but if you can get humans for this especially it just saves you so much frustration. (actually, most of Factions is like that...) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Turtle Strategy
I did this mission in normal mode having two MM heroes flaged at each door. When a turtle arrived I just had to go alone and use Pain Inverter at the proper time to kill it instantly. As the turtle shoot at the minions it takes a lot damage even at r1. It is easy to stand out of range of the ranger and even while taking a few damage the most important is that they don't interrupt. I'l try it again in HM with a speed buff to ease the process. --Mortelune 22:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This is the hardest non-elite mission in the game for H/H
Header Yes. No. Actually, that would be.

Other possible nominees are Raisu Palace, Gate of X, Destruction's Depths...? (T/C) 18:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure which mission I think is harder, but Eternal Grove, even in HM, isn't that bad with a setup designed for the mission, i.e. 1 MM for each side, etc. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 18:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Adjusted [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried the mission in HM like 4 times with MM on both sides. Got crushed by left afflicted groups. It hurts, precious.... And the 1 time I passed, we had several near-wipes. --JonTheMon 18:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * For H/H, yes. I agree. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 13:32, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Eternal Grove is hardest mission I ever met... Gyala Hatchery gave me headache either... Raisu Palace is Just a laugh! I finished this mission with heroes/Henchies twice with no problem! with 3 minutes to spare! Gate of Madness is Also a fun... Earth tanker makes shiro mad! Destruction Depth is also not very hard, as long as u know what to do Conget 14:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * My official rankings say yes, at least if you're talking about hard mode.  Quizzical 14:53, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wtf r u talking abt? maybe with henichies only its hard but with heroes its a piece of cake. Hard missions = Hell's Precipice, Raisu palace (not hard to beat but hard to master) and Jennurs Horde - Rabus 15:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Raisu Palace is Easy (Even with master!) Junnurs Horde? Too Easy!!! Get 2 MM! While MM nearly taking everything for ya, you just nearly need to chill about! Rush Through the stairs, then come back. If you didnt time correctly, only a light saborin will be sacrefized... you still have time to take the attackers down! I tried this twice: 1 time with H/H (Not a big problem), second time was with ppl (3 times ursan [Before Nerf] + Consets.... Finish this with less than 10 minute


 * Cons make everything easy. Hell's Precipice Prophecies is pie. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:10, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That a mission is easy with ursan and consumables says very little about the mission. Even a really hard game would often be quite easy if you use an invincibility cheat code.  Quizzical 22:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * With infinite rocket launcher ammo --Gimmethegepgun 22:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And ghost mode! (u can fly and go thru walls, its in Half-life) - Rabus 22:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * God mode and noclip in quake 2--98.247.164.84 06:36, 28 December 2008 (UTC)