User talk:Azroth/Archive

Previously Testing the Viability of…
These are just some theoretical builds that I'm testing to see if they deserve to be added to the Untested builds section. If you want to lend me a hand just post your comments in the corresponding section on my Discussion page. Just please don’t submit one of these builds yourself. If it turns out to be good just let me know and I’ll add it myself. Thanks a lot.


 * Dark Chaser

I don't really see anything special in this one, it's just a typical Assassin running build. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 21:48, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

Ditto >.< (Not a fifty five 02:58, 5 September 2006 (CDT))


 * Yeah, I know. Just thought I'd put this up to becuase its the running build that I used to get through Tyria and Cantha up to where I am now.  Its not up here to be reviewed so much as just to be seen.--Azroth 16:49, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Completley Random
Sup. I'm new here, so any advice or pointers are welcome, but please be gentle. Thx.Azroth 00:50, 21 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Welcome to the wiki!

&mdash; Galil  21:29, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Pointers:
 * Community Portal
 * Style and formatting
 * GW:YOU
 * GW:ULC
 * Advices:
 * Follow guidelines.
 * sign your comments.
 * Don't let the wiki disturb your eating or sleeping habits.
 * People see your messages a whole lot easier if you put them on your userpage instead of talk, since this is where we put messages to you. ;)


 * Thanks a lot for the advice :) I love your user page. Would you mind if I used it as a template for my own?Thx again--Azroth 21:48, 23 August 2006 (CDT)


 * No problem. Although another advice is, always reply at the same spot you got the message. ;) About my page though, I'm terribly sorry but it took me so horribly long to do, and I like the outcome alot. You may of course use something similar, but I'd prefer if you didn't use the same layout. :( &mdash; Galil  21:58, 23 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, thanks anyway. I can relate. I guess I'll just ask around for another template. Shame though, yours is realy nice.--Azroth 22:06, 23 August 2006 (CDT) P.S.-I'll post this in both locations.  Thx for all the advice.

Help! In Dire Straits
Hey, if anyone reads this, please lend me some help with my A/W Critical Flash build. The build got 2 unfavored votes before there was ever any discussion, which leads me to wonder if it was really tested. If anyone gets a chance could you please test it and give me some real feedback, and please don’t give it a third unfavored vote or delete it without giving me a chance to fix/defend it? If you like it, please give it a favorable vote. Thanks a lot.--Azroth 19:14, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

WTF!! This has to be a record. My build got moved to unfavored with almost no discussion in 2 days!! I mean, there were only 3 posts that weren't mine, 1 commenting on their own skill set up, and 2 saying it looked good! I looked around the unfavored section for a while and found builds with contradictions in them that lasted longer and got more discussion. And even on ones with skills that COULDN'T be used or more than 200 attribute points used, the builds got more of a reason for the unfavored votes than mine. Can anyone help me out here?--Azroth 20:46, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * most of the comments were on similarity to existing articles, not the quality of your build. uniqueness and quality are different questions. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 23:23, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I was kind of in a crappy mood when I wrote that last one and was in a demi-rant. So I guess its time to clarify.  what I meant was that it was annoying to get placed into the unfavored section so fast, because it seemed that people just LOOKED at the build and voted it down because it LOOKED like the Critical Mastery build, where as (in my opinion) it PLAYS very differently (or at least as differently as a melee build can from another melee build) from the Crit. Mas. build.  That was what I meant, but I guess it never came out in my rant.--Azroth 00:44, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * With five out of eight key skills identical, most people will assume that they builds operate in the same manner. They have the same idea centered around hitting with criticals to keep up Critical Defenses. In that sense, they do play similar enough that it would be better to place your ideas in the varients of the existing build rather than create a new build. I honestly don't see how they play as differently as you suggest, as you combined the lead and offhand into GPS, switched a defensive skill for another ("Watch Yourself" to Flashing Blades) and filled in the free spot with a self heal. However, all those skills are superfulous to the key idea of the build, and thus you see the results with unfavored votes. I'm not trying to critisise you as much as help you recognize why you are getting unfavored votes. It happens. One of my favorite RA builds (the E/W Hammer Spike) was thrown into the unfavored bin. I felt it was fun and worked well enough, but others didn't agree. Just be ready to accept that it will happen as you open your build up to the public. --Thervold 12:31, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, I see what you're saying. Ok, thanks a lot.  When put that way I can see where people are coming from when they say the two are similar.  I just wish that someone could have given me an indepth explanation like this earlier and saved me all the confusion.  thanks again.--Azroth 13:21, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

Seems Odd
Does anyone else think its odd that Anet never changed the Monster Skill Fingers of Chaos so that it affected Assassins and Ritualists? I mean, it has horrible affects for other profs, so why not include the new ones?Azroth 23:24, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
 * programmer laziness. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:11, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * yeah, I guess so. lol.Azroth 00:25, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Or even Mesmers for that matter. --Theeth (talk)   19:58, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Or maybe a because a hand only has 5 fingers? --Crazytreeboy 20:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * You may have something there Crazy, but I still think laziness was atleast half of the equation.--Azroth 20:27, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Or because it's a Prophecies-only area? :P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 11:58, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * You're probably right, but it just seems odd that they didnt update the effect for the Dragon Festival.--Azroth 12:07, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It's because they like Assasins, Mesmers, and Ritualists more! >^_^< -[[Image:Vulpes_Foxnik.png]]Vulpes Foxnik 22:07, 28 August 2006 (CDT)

Archive
I moved your talk archive into your user space and updated the link at the top of this page. --Fyren 01:05, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks a lot :)--Azroth 18:03, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

Incorrectly unfavoured builds (section breaker)
This is a subsection of GuildWiki talk:Requests for arbitration/Not a fifty five vs Karlos. I'm keeping a copy of it to serve as a reference of the opinions I expressed on this page should it ever be altered or deleted.--Azroth 00:01, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

Can you hold off moving them until we have some concensus, this is a contentious issue, if you're going to change 100 pages perhaps some discussion first would be wise, isn't that the whole reason (a lack of discussion) you want to now move them back? --Xasxas256 22:54, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Oh, well, when ya put it that way, sure. I just didn't realize so many builds had been unfavored for little to no reason.  All the examples I'd paid attention to had nonsense votes maybe, but not NO votes. Still, you're right about adding 200+ builds back into testing... --Crazytreeboy 22:59, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * STOP. As much as I agree with the fact that these builds got a raw deal, DO NOT MOVE THEM BACK.  If you do, they will get the same deal that they've gotten already, because between their voting down and right now, there have been no policy changes to the builds testing category which would ensure a new vote for them.  I agree that 55 had a good point, but the way he went about pointing it out, and the stance he took afterwards, angered people and caused them not to look at the point, but to argue with 55 instead.  What needs to be done now is to work harder to get the vetting policies changed,  while leaving these builds where thay are to maintain the integrity of this list.  If these were all added back into the untested category, all it would do is double the size of the category, forcing the testers to work even faster and spend less and less time on each build.  This wouldn't help these or any builds, so dont move them anywhere.  Policy changes must be made, or all these build will be back in untested tomarrow.--Azroth 23:07, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Well the policy has since changed to 3 votes o.O But yeah if policies changed, and they are soon since we have two ideasalready for a change, it'd be sad if they all went zoom somewhere after all that work. (Not a fifty five 23:12, 12 September 2006 (CDT))


 * Don't worry, I haven't and ain't touching them. And you've an even better point to add to Xasxas(...'s?).  Fix the vetting process first, Then fix the unfavored builds.  The LAST thing I wanna do is make things any more messed up than they already are right now or cause trouble. I'll wait. --Crazytreeboy 23:18, 12 September 2006 (CDT) (Edit Conflict)


 * There has been a deep and pervasive injustice done to over a hundred build articles because of a flawed process. If you read GuildWiki talk:Builds, you will see plenty of support for this. The proponent of this flawed process (Xeeron) is currently not available for comment. One of the persons commonly accused of flippant voting (Rapta) is similarly absent. The other person (Skuld) is an admin who has the power to impose discretionary blocks if he feels that moving these builds back to testing is disruptive. Xasxas256 hasn't staked a position either way except to urge caution where it is unnecessary. Consensus already exists on this matter. There should be no voting on any of these builds moved back to testing until one of the proposed policy changes is implemented; this is why I am not using on them. 66.90.73.113 23:14, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

Look...Xeeron, Rapta, Skuld, and the other testers are not the enemy here (I'm not sure if this is what you're suggesting but I'm going on the assumption that you are). The testers are just working within the limits of the policy. They are fighting an up hill battle against an ever increasing untested category which demands that they vote on builds and move them as fast as possible less the untested category become so alarmingly huge that the builds section is completely abandoned as a lost cause. Without them constantly casting votes on builds, no one else would. If you one day logged on, and went to the untested category and found it too contain 1000 untested builds, would you be the one to begin testing them? How would you decide what builds to test? If you were able to test two builds a day, as five or ten more came in, would you keep testing or would you give up? Or would you take the third option and begin casting votes as fast as you could simply to easy the strain and try to clear out the untested section? It’s not the people that’s the problem here, it’s the system. So don’t just sit here on this page and talk about how the builds section gets tested too quickly and not enough attention is paid to each build. If you don’t like it, help them. Devote some of your time to testing builds, testing them the right way. You've all proved today that you have the time just by sitting here and watching the events on this page unfold. So now its time for you to stop watch, to stop talking, and to start acting. Now get your buts in gear and get to it. I'm not an admin, and I haven't been here for very long, but since when has it ever been the policy of this or any other group of people to see a problem and instead of trying to help out, to sit around and complain about it and hope that someone else will take care of it for you? Now go test some builds and fix the problem that you all helped to create. If you need me, you'll know where to find me.--Azroth 23:40, 12 September 2006 (CDT)