Talk:Energy Surge

Mursaat Mesmer boss?
Can anyone confirm this boss is still there? I've read on two other sites that this info is false. --Rainith 19:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it is. Right west of Thunderhead Keep (go west then around a mountain) there's a spot with a nameless mursaat boss. As of now, I've seen a warrior and a monk, but I'll bet it's random and can be from any profession. --theeth 14:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've got him (and I've seen a necro mursaat boss too). I can post a screen cap to confirm if needed. --theeth 14:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Could you post a screen cap and one with a map location? I can't find him.

Never mind. It's too bad you need to get through a MASSIVE crowd of mursaat first.

Here's a small screenshot taken today. Happened to run into the warrior and necro bosses first. On Xennon's site there's an image for Mursaat that spawn in Ice Floe. My screenshot was from the more easterly X marked on it. I think there's actually a third spawn near the center of the map. Xennon doesn't list all six professions as potentially spawning among the three spots, but I have personally seen them. --68.142.13.111 03:23, 1 March 2006 (CST)

There are more than the 2 boss locations west of Thunderhead Keep. I found 3 while exploring and will go back and document the other location(s) in more detail. While most people use Xennon's Elite Skill Maps, there are some missing locations. I have found some in the Frozen Forest and Ice Floe so far. --Gares Redstorm 03:35, 1 March 2006 (CST)

Shouldn't the last comment about increasing Domination magic beyond 14 be removed? It seems to conflict with the other information on this page since at 17, the damage goes to 9 per energy lost. Even if you were discounting the 19 (since it is incredibly high), it should read beyond 13 not 14. --Chrono_traveller

Armor ignoring damage?
I'm guessing its chaos damage and so should ignore armor, right? Robin of Glory  10:20, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It ignores armor. It is NOT chaos damage, and chaos damage does not ignore armor.  So you are 2/3 wrong and 1/3 (where it really counts) right. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 10:21, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ah thanks for clarification. So its just unspecified armor-ignoring damage then. Robin of Glory  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 10:32, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes. As a general rule, untyped damage ignores armor. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 11:43, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

those icons bother me
it has always bothered me that and  look nothing alike, but  is totally unrelated and looks almost identical. what were you thinking Anet? --Honorable Sarah 12:29, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

At least those two are borderline distinguishable. and are just bleh. :( --Lemming 18:11, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

Meh...The pic is acutally a reskin of the  icon >< (they look very similar)   --J0ttem 03:40, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Better options for energy denial?
I was pondering if this truly is the best option for one to go for the path of draining one's energy. Perhaps someone abusing Mantra of Recovery, complimenting energy burn and energy tap (Don't say it takes too long t'cast, you'll have points invested in fast casting, remember?) as well as a various set of options for energy gain/thievery. Perhaps fast-recharging shame, guilt, and diversions would aid in this? Maybe even a fast-recharging drain enchantment would aid in one's energy recharge. Just a thought. I view this skill more as a effective method of AoE damage and at the same time dealing damage, and whenever I see a GvG build in the top ranks using this on their "energy denial" mez I want to puke... but that's my opinion. OR it's a method of energy denial for a non-primary mesmer. Either way, not a superb elite with other options out there for pure denial. The inspiration-variant steals more, as well as replenishes your own, even if domination has non-elite version. I'd like to debate this further perhaps, I've always wanted to argue to a point where we make perfect harmony in builds. -Daedric Avenger (A.K.A. Kamahl)

I've also never seen the fascination with this skill for the same reasons as you, Daedric. Perhaps it is because I have not come across a debate including well-explained pros and cons for both sides. In my own experience, I've found Energy Surge to be less useful than an Inspiration or N/Me Me/N Energy denial combination; that being said, I seldom have Energy Burn off my bar, but I'd much rather save the Elite for one of the less universally useful but more individually powerful skills that the Mesmer or other secondary classes can provide.GrammarNazi 14:12, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * I don't use this for 'pure' e-denial. The reason why so many people use this skill is the sudden preasure you can get from Arcane Echo -> Energy Surge ->  Energy Surge.  AT 14 Domination that's a lovley 160 damage to multiple targets.  It puts preasure on the opposing monks rather fast.  Even just hitting 2 people can cause quite a few problems.  Suddenly losing 160 hp on 2 allies means they need to react quickly.  And if you change over to the monk, you can cuase furhter preasure with other Domination based skills.  Although I will agree that for 'pure' e-denial, this is by far not the best choice.  However when I need to use a preasure + e-denial, this skill will very often find its way to my skill bar.  Ferdoc 11:41, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Top guilds use this for its spiking capabilities. This+energy burn at 14 domination does 202 armor ignoring damage in about 2 seconds (96 of that going to nearby foes). The energy loss is just an added effect.. There is no other Mesmer elite that can provide unconditional damage like this in GvG.
 * I don't think theres any other mesmer skill that can do that much unconditional damage >.> --Shadowcrest  22:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Damage from this skill isn't unconditional, just armor ignoring. There are Mesmer skills that actually do MORE damage than this, but not on demand like this one is.

Mistake on the page
The article states to use famine as well if trying to deny energy. Famine and Energy Surge are both elites.
 * Last time I checked there were 64 slots/party, 8 of those usable for an elite &mdash; Skuld 09:47, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

Only Revert Once
User Skuld has reverted a revert on this article. The notes in question follows: "*Energy Surge is a powerful elite on its own, but when combined with Energy Burn, and used on a single target with maximum effect, one can quickly deal out 160 damage and burn 16 energy from that target, as well as deal 80 damage to foes around him/her." AND "*If you're planning to deny a target to the point of zero energy, consider using Mind Wrack."--Ninjatek 09:49, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I think it was the right action. Those notes are so blatently obvious. M s4 10:14, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Should This Be Buffed
The only difference between this and energy burn at the moment is the 'and nearby foes bit', should this be buffed to 10 energy lost at 16 attribute?--Silence Renegade 12:50, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I think that a few mesmer skills should be buffed (including this one) especially since mesmer is the least played class. Not to mention the dufficulty of capping this elite for such a small difference as that. 141.152.153.226 13:30, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

give it 1 extra point of energy loss &mdash; Skuld 13:52, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

maybe make the damage higher? everyone sign here if you agree that E-Surge needs a buff--Silence Renegade 14:58, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

It won't happen but one can hope. I pull out E-Surge whenever I'm feeling too lazy to deal with Hexes and Interrupts, but other than being easy to use it is pretty much teh sux in all ways, if you know how to play Mesmer class at all...If it was buffed it would be nice, I always felt it should be significantly more powerful than Energy Burn if it has the same energy, activation, and recharge. (T/C) 15:06, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Have you seen the chaos this creates on dual surgers in gvg? It's brutal. The additional energy denied comes from the fact that spike worthy,armor ignoring, AOE damage is being dumped on everyone in an area. That damage has to be healed and this skill takes away the resources necessary to heal it while dealing the damage. You can think about dealing 8 points of e-denial plus 5-10 additional points for everyone hit because they have to be healed. Now multiply that time two. That can be quite a bit. Avatar of Lyssa 20:05, 5 July 2007 (CDT)


 * That is why they nerfed Energy Surge in the first place. It was just was too good with 15 damage. 67.162.10.70 21:31, 5 July 2007 (CDT)


 * It used to be eight points of damage for each point of energy stolen with a max of ten energy stolen. Now that I think about it, most Mesmers who carry this on their bar will also carry Energy Burn which can't deal anywhere near the amount energy denial of surge because it has no AOE but still causes decent pressure. Even if you only hit two other people, you're still looking at 23 energy stolen, 15 of which will be from their backline, every twenty seconds (plus more damage from e-burn). I think a lot of people are using this as a pve skill, where it gets out-shined by ele nukes that aren't reliant on the enemy's energy pools for damage. Avatar of Lyssa 23:52, 5 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I believe that only the target lose energy, nearby allies just take damage. Shadow X 01:09, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Only the target does lose the energy, the rest of the energy is stolen from the people who have to heal that damage. That can add up to be quite a bit. Avatar of Lyssa 00:27, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Ouch! 16 point surge in damage. Nice. Mocax 02:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I love this skill.
I like using this skill way more than MoR. Imo it should be used way more. Railin 00:22, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Buff
Yay, a better reason to use this now. It now does a very reasonable 12 damage per point, as does energy burn. Better than 8, less than 15. Discuss. Flechette 07:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also more than 10 and less than 13 --Blue.rellik 07:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I meant better than the before 8 and not as over-powered as the before the before 15. Flechette 07:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Idea
Ha with a full team of mesmers with Dom at least 14 and they target a clunk of enemies, 576 armor peircing damage ^_^ Lost-Blue
 * It deals no damage if it drains no energy. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * different cluncked targets... Lost-Blue 15:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Buff? Nerf?
Well, imo NERF! It removed a reasonable 8 energy, and still pulled off 90+ dmg at 14 dom magic, now it's crappy damage, and I don't really care about the incrased e removal, used Shame on the Monks and it was over nevertheless...lame (for me).Toxin 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Same here, I prefered pre-update version. I usualy run at 14 dom... the update is good for 16 domination. From ~600hp to ~500 hp... :/ Big Bow 00:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm missing something it does slighty more damage at both 12 and 16--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there goes a 600hp healthy mesmer. I needed that extra dmg because you can barely trust dmg dealers in RA to pressure Monk while ur draining Monk.  Cant do both Pressure and drain anymore.Toxin 00:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Taking 1 more energy off of 1 target but 15 less HP off of all targets is pretty unequivocally a nerf. The gap in utility between elite and non-elite mesmer skills is much less than for a lot of other classes, and nerfing one of the more useful mesmer elites is right in line with that.  Quizzical 01:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * THey always nerf skills so that they become only useful at full points in their supped up attribute. II wish I could have a chat with the people behind this to talksome reason into them. Its almost like they dont want any non-level20s to be any effective at all. 84.104.80.120 05:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The skill cannot be captured until far beyond the point at which you ought to be level 20 anyway. If this interferes with people trying to twink low level characters, so what?  Quizzical 06:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Damn you're a moron. "The skill changes are temporary and will be in effect for only two weeks. They are all geared toward addressing the most immediate issues with Guild Battles." Translation- this has nothing to do with low level characters that cap this skill. --Shoogi 12:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * GW:NPA--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 16:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shoogi, no one's a moron. It wasn't pasted that the skill changes are temporary until after people had time to rage about skills that they thought were possibly nerfed.

Anyone consider that this would prove more effective with Aneurysm now?--68.102.139.94 01:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Screw Aneurysm, Once a MOnk's outta E, I wantn it to stay outta e, if they get it all back, 1 WoH and there goes all ur troubles.

The recent update said they increased the energy drained to 10 with 12pts but this doesn't appear to be the case. 80.192.60.134 03:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * GWW uses a 0-15 attribute level when they roll out game updates, ect. We go by the 0-12 attribute level, hench the mis-conception. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  03:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The internal formulas implicitly give the exact values at 0 and 15, and use a linear model to compute all other values and then round to the nearest integer. Reporting the top value of 12 here is more in line with what skills get used at in practice, at least for standard pve, which is why we create that discrepancy.  Well, that and to confuse you.  Quizzical 04:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why 15 instead of 14? It's rare in PvP - which seems to be what the developers care more about - that anyone would use a major rune because it decreases health. 14 is the maximum anyone would have for any attribute in PvP. 66.250.190.114 14:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sup runes are still run on some builds, mainly for weapon attributes. There is also Death Magic and Fire Magic gimmick builds. Sometimes people will take a Major over a Superior since the difference is pretty negligible. Anyway, I think the formulae were arrived upon from mathematical concerns, not what would actually make sense in the context of the game. (I can't explain it either.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)