Talk:Enchanter's Conundrum

Migraine Anyone? -Thomas 04:02, 24 September 2006 (CDT)+
 * Yeah, this skill is really useless, as you will get better effects even with Arcane Conundrum or Migraine on all spells or Air of Disenchantment with an AoE. -- Sai Qui 07:06, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * lol, this looks like an anti CoP skill...

the recharge and energy cost are simply too high. If recharge was 10 and energy was 10 it might see a little bit of use.

Really needs a buff. Its use is already ultra-super-duper narrow. Combines well with Power Spike and Shatter Enchantment for doing damage and helping to fulfill the last condition. --Ufelder 02:26, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Is it me or is the '100% slower' thing not possible? Isn't '100% longer cast time' and '50% slower cast time' analogous?--Buzzer 02:56, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's what we'll actually have to test out when Nightfall officially releases. You're refering to the skill Frustration aren't you? There has been debate over whether Anet may have misrepresented the wording of the skill with its actual effect, if this is true, then the skill descriptions will have to be noted as bugged until they fix it. But there is a slight possibility that we may be wrong also, 'slower' is comparative much like the use of the word 'longer', therefore the use of comparative makes it so that 100% 'slower than' is not the same as 100% 'slow'. However, because the same language pattern is used with snare hexes such as Imagined Burden (Target moves 50% 'slower') where the effect is that the target moves twice as slow, then it may require them to change such skills so it reads 'Target foe moves at 50% of their speed/Target foe casts at 50% of their speed' as well. We will see. (Terra Xin 09:01, 6 October 2006 (CDT))


 * I think it's intended to bait someone into trying to enchant themselves so that you can interrupt and shatter them to death. -- Gordon Ecker 21:38, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * This looks like it's for painful spiking. If you max out Domination, this reaches 95 damage on the hex ENDING while not enchanted.  If a foe is not enchanted, Shatter Delusions, once again at 16 domination, takes off a mesmer hex, effectively ending it, and dealing an extra 79 damage.  Unless it doesn't work when removed prematurely, that's a 174 defence-ignoring damage spike!  Just some theory craft, I thought this was crap when I first saw it and didn't unlock it, but now I'm thinking otherwise... Edit: Note that this is triggered with the 1/4th shatter cast, which can be used quickly as a follow-up to another painful spell, such as Spiritual Pain.  With a .75 second aftercast, and a .25 second cast on this, not counting fast casting, you'll deal all the damage over 1 second;  280 damage in 1 second is no laughing matter.  Seems like they're really pushing mesmer spikes in nightfall. Merengue 21:17, 19 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I was thinking the same thing... Also, if they are enchanted, you can Shatter Enchantment first and then spike them. How about using it alongside a Shattering Assault Assassin? --Shadowleaf 04:27, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Just wanted to note that it works as I mentioned earlier. Was playing around in the arena and ended up with an Air Ele, and we mix-spiked out targets in ~2 seconds each time. Crazy fun o_O Merengue 18:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

If it removed all enchantments THEN did this then it would be a very good spell as it stands its rubbish.
 * Well, yes. Spiritual Pain + Wastrel's Demise spike outclasses this by far.  I doubt that'll be the case come the end of Winterfest, and hopefully they'll cheapen this in cost at the very least. Merengue 02:48, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * That's true, but 100% longer to cast enchantments is still very useful for other spiking capabilities (Terra Xin 20:50, 30 November 2006 (CST))
 * What important (for anti-spiking atleast) enchantment doesn't have a 1/4cast? I highly doubt anyone would waste a mesmer's elite on this just to make Prot Spirit or Spirit Bond have an slightly longer cast (its what...1/2sec instead of 1/4..) - Former Ruling 19:07, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Since it has a spike damage of 75, try going anti enchantment, ending with shatter enchantment, then shatter delusions, and then ask whether the potential from this skill is worthy? (Terra Xin 08:27, 8 January 2007 (CST))

I don't think this should be an elite. If it's to be worthy of elite, make it so that enchanments on target foe expire faster too. You can't shatter multiple enchants before this hex ends. This is way to situational. What if the opponent has enchantments stacked up the wazhoo? What if they are being enchanted by another player? To much can go wrong trying to set this up. --RedFeather 19:26, 3 March 2007 (CST)

Cost, cast and recharge all need to be decreased for this skill to be viable - 10e 1c 15r sounds reasonable. At 15e 2c 20r and as an elite hex, would need to have more of an effect.220.253.161.248 08:07, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

What occurs if this skill is removed with Holy Veil (assuming Veil is the only enchantment on the player at the time)?

Hmm, I did make a melee mesmer spike using this skill...usually killed off people in under 5 secs... at the cost of all your energy. =/ but now the damage is higher.. so.. might be able to put in an energy management skill or something.. i'm going to try..

I present this skill....
--Nog64Talk 18:26, 6 March 2007 (CST)

does this stack with NR? Caramel Ni 14:04, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Probably. Daze + this + NR + Migraine probably wont though, id imagine it caps out at some point (apostrophe key broke) &mdash; Skuld 14:08, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I can see this stacking and shutting down those PITA prot monks... Caramel Ni 14:09, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Stacking damage
Putting the hex on the same person multiple times makes the damage stack in seperate packets, tested with archane echo: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2599/gw568uk1.jpg P A R A S I T I C 16:13, 10 August 2007 (CDT)


 * So basically have a team throw a ton of copies of this onto 1 person and then Shatter it off for a massive spike? (after shattering any enchants on them of course) --Gimmethegepgun 16:49, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Mes spike! Add in Phantom Pain and it would be interesting to see. The Hobo 17:12, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Buff
Is it worth it now? or No? Dean Harper 02:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say from LAME to barely usable. really with buffs to energy burn/surge why would you? 81.88.112.157 11:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If it had a 15sec recharge, it'd go well with the buffed Gaze of contempt. P A R A S I T I C 04:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

This is definitely useful as a spiking skill if you're willing to spend skill slots on Shatter Delusions and Shatter Enchantment. At 15 domination magic you can set up 291 armor-ignoring damage in less than a second: Enchanter's Conundrum, Energy Burn, Shatter Delusions. Shatter Enchantment's another 100 if you get to use it.

The strength of E-surge is the energy drain caused by the spell and the necessary healing to a group of people. That's good for GvG. In RA or AB though, single target damage is the way to go. The trick with Enchanter's Conundrum is managing your target's enchantments. If you want to deal with enemies who have lots of enchants on them, you have to bring Rend, Gaze, or Signet of Twilight in order to prime them for the spike. Then Shatter quickly while they're vulnerable. Rette Alarix 17:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Nerf
Why did they increase the casting time to 2 seconds when nobody uses this skill anyway...seems a pretty pointless nerf to me :S --Cobalt | Talk  10:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Because it was used. Me/A's for example in RA, with the most powerful Deep Wound, and it aint even elite. Ench Conundrum, Augury, Shatter Ench, Overload, Shatter Delusions, Overload. Poof. And it was often used in GvGs to spike along. PvE has always been easy, so that doesnt really matter. Dunno about other PvP areas --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 10:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe they should nerf monk Elites, those change the Tide of RA even more than some elite people happen to use. This Elite was never that good, considering you have to take another skill to make it effective.  76.186.15.83 00:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 1234 builds are meant to be easily countered; this wasn't. 220.101.173.247 11:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This skill was very effective for spiking in PvP, and if done right, could deliver a fatal solo, armor ignoring spike in less than 1 second, before the monk could catch it.- 69.115.13.91 20:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, I use that Conundrum build in AB. I was using it just today as a matter of fact; didn't realize the casting time was changed until I looked up the update notes. Build still works just fine for me, Fast Casting puts the cast time just about the same as it was before. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  00:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Shhh, don't say that or Anet will realize that mesmers have fc! :o Yatesinater 17:39, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Anet? Realise something? Where do you live? Lord of all tyria 17:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The nerf did make it slightly easier to interrupt, maybe that's all they were going for. The build generally doesn't kill solo, it needs help to finish a guy off (and multiples cancel each other out). Who knows. You don't see armies of these in AB, so it's not that overpowered (or popular) at the moment. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  18:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'm surprised they even nerfed this. Mr IP 18:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Nerfed or Buffed?
I can't tell if it was nerfed or buffed. I mean the damage is instantly applied now and the foe is slower casting enchants. I mean I'm sure it kills some spikes but I'm not sure if I should cheer or boo. - Kalle Damos

More useful in pve now IMO but it was to stop the spiking without making it 100% useless.. pvpers will not be happy.

And we should care why? Pure PvPers are born with a stick up their butts and hate in their tiny little hearts. They are always whining and pissing about something, so I honestly do not care how much they whine. PvE mesmers needed this buff, stop your whining and DEAL WITH IT! - Kalle Damos


 * So you're cheering, I guess? Vehemoth 22:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I dunno.. personally I used this is Pve the same way its used in Pvp with great effects..Not that this update stopped me doing that..Just now theres gonna be a 1/4 sec delay before the second damage..
 * Actually this is a buff. Just gives dmg first instead of giving them a chance to apply an enchantment. Can still be used with shatter delusions. --74.171.70.24 00:23, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is a buff. I actually see EC spike as viable.....it wasn't utterly terrible before but it was kinda slow. Mr IP 03:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shatter doesn't make a massive spike all in one shot, but now people can't see this coming (and you can still shatter it). Changes the play style of the skill more to "bam! spike!" instead of "bwahaha, try and fight back! now bam spike!" --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  03:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahem...EC + shatter enchant + shatter delusions = lots of damage in a short time frame. If you're lucky you can power leak an aegis while EC is up too. I'll miss this skill :( 74.14.147.212 06:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Now it's just Shatter Enchant > EC > Shatter Delusions. Different order, same massive damage, less telegraphed spike. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  06:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't need Shatter Delusions... the damage occurs when the hex is applies if not enchanted. So all you need is Shatter Enchantment and this for a huge spike. J Striker 06:59, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * SD is definitely worth bringing in a EC spike, if only for the fast cast time. And spells still have an aftercast so EC + shatter enchant + shatter delusions isn't very fast. Anyways, Ive completely forgotten about mesmers after the necro buffs. Mr IP 07:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Shatter Delusions still adds an extra 70~ damage, so it's worth bringing along. EC isn't the entire spike, 100~ damage alone isn't a instakill. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  17:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Nerf
Nerfed again. Now hope they programmed it right. Let's make sure it doesn't hex first and THEN do the damage check... Drag <font color="FF5500">nmn  talk cont  21:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nerf --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 21:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The nerf is stupid I agree, and this just makes the skill that much more useless as compared to Migrane. I think the requirement for damage of not being enchanted was enough (Enchanter's Conundrum). They both do the same amount of damage at 12dom (102), but Migraine is DOT, and therefore could be removed before it does the full damage. Before, I believe it was equally balanced with Migraine, but now it's just stupid. GG. --Franzwald 23:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Their reasoning for making it weak compared to Migraine is probably that dom magic is full of interupts, whereas illusion has to have points in another attribute to make the best of Migraine's effect. Everyone would run enchanter's over migraine if they both did the same thing, simple because of the attributes Yatesinater 06:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The name of the skill no longer makes sense. Before, it was a "conundrum" because the target would want to enchant himself in order to avoid the damage, but he would be casting that enchant very slowly. Now there's no conundrum. *cry* 129.64.54.38 19:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Troodon AAH! :( This pisses me off, i used to run this great mesmer wpike with EC and soul barbs, but yeah :/
 * cry* - sq 212.10.147.103 02:08, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Past two adjustments gutted this skill. Rette Alarix 16:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)