Talk:Leader

Decision Made
Alright since there has been no activity on this page for the last few days or so i'll consider this vote closed. according to the votes we have (amazingly) decided to not delete the Leader page but make it into a disambiguation page.


 * Leader will be made into a disambig pointing to the two options; Leader (Guild) and Leader (Party)
 * Officer will stay put
 * Member gets deleted. (one line article)

--William Blackstaff 11:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Huh? By the most conservative of counts, there are 3 votes for both "delete" and "do not delete."  The merge votes, whether you recognize the pages as already merged or not, are delete votes too, so that puts it at 5 vs. 3.  How did "do not delete" win?? &mdash;Tanaric 23:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Did every "merge" voter said they do not want Leader to be a disambig or redirect?  At most we would want the "merge" voters to clarify whether it is "Merge and redirect Leader to the merged page" or "Merge and delete Leader page".  I don't think you can directly assume "Merge" implies delete. -PanSola 03:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, you forgot to count Karlos. "Disambig" means "Do not delete, do something else with it".  So 3 vs 4 w/o the merge votes. -PanSola 03:42, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You can add, who can make announcements to the list of things that are not detailed in Guild despite Tanaric's assertion that the Leader page is "Utterly unnecessary, as all information is contained in guild".


 * I mean looking thought that guild page we have articles for the fringe emblem and the detail of a cape because they are vital game concepts whereas in Guild Wars knowing what the Leader, Officer, Member can do is pretty unimportant. I mean if you went to this website for information on Guild Wars, how a guild works and what the 3 positions can do is pretty trivial and because we're all either Leaders or Officers we really don't need a page for all those "noob" Members do we? Sorry to be so cynical but we currently have 4,350 articles, are standards really so high that we couldn't possibly have pages for all of Leader, Officer and Member?


 * The game is called Guild Wars, a guild being a community in the game, there's 3 positions in a guild and they each have distinct powers but we're not going to tell you what they are. I've stayed away from this talk page for over a week because I'd made my points and thought others could decide on the merit on them but I am disappointed that we don't have Member, I don't even know where we arrived at a decision to remove it but if the masses have spoken and agreed that it be so then it shall come to be. No sour grapes here just a final voicing of my opinion which I feel I'm entitled to, thanks to all who agreed with me and thanks to the "deletes" and "redirects" as well, I think most people brought up good points and although Tanaric annoyed me a couple of times I don't bear anyone any ill will. I feel as though this matter is over, if someone else wants to take up the cause for the recreation of member they're welcome to but for me I think I'm going to distance myself from this discussion. As you can probably tell from reading through this I was quite irritated when I first started this post but I'm content now, it's been quite therapeutic! Maybe wiki posting leads us to Nirvana!! ^ ^ --Xasxas256 05:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Decision?
So have we come to a decision regarding the articles Leader, Officer and Member? These three currently reside on the Category:Candidates for deletion page and I can't do anything about them unless I have something resembling a consensus.

As such, if you care to voice your opinion on this simply whack your name after Delete or Do Not Delete or Nominate/Vote for Other Options.

If you nominate a Other Options please explain, in detail, what you would like to see happen in the Discussion Section below as I have done so other people can consider your idea and vote for it if they wish.


 * Delete: Xeeron, Tanaric, TheSpectator
 * Do Not Delete: PanSola Kidburla Xasxas256
 * Other Options:
 * Combine Leader, Officer & Member with Guild: William Blackstaff, Shandy
 * Leader is disambig to Party leader and Guild leader --Karlos 07:44, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

This vote will be considered closed when there are no new edit on this page for a few days and I'll go ahead and do whatever needs done (unless someone beats me to it) --William Blackstaff 00:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As all the content on leader, officer, and member are already on guild, William, isn't your vote really "delete"? &mdash;Tanaric 19:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know why you say that the content of leader, officer, and member are already on the Guild page Tanaric, early on in the discussion YOU suggested that we should make up a table and put in on Guild! At the moment Guild doesn't say what the administrative powers of each position in a guild, which is the whole point of the leader, officer, and member ::| --Xasxas256 19:36, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What Xasxas256 said. Personally I think most people understand these roles and if they don't they can find this information in the description but not everyone reads the descriptions....(damn now! generation). FYI we have some sort of a tie situation going on here. My idea has been blown out of the water, but Karlos, Kidburla & PanSola want to keep as a disambig, Xeeron, Tanaric & TheSpectator want to delete. If nothing else changes I'll take Xasxas256's vote into account and not delete the pages but make Leader into a disambig. I'll check back in a few days. I'm still deleting Member though...damn one line articles... --William Blackstaff 12:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I said a table consoldating the info might be useful to somebody. I never stated the information wasn't already there.  If you read the whole article, you'll see each and every ability for each tier of guild membership is spelled out.  &mdash;Tanaric 00:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You tell me where in the Guild article it says for example that only the Leader can change a guild's emblem. Or that only the leader can buy a guild hall. It says what a guild can do but not what positions can do it. Tanaric how can you seriously say "you'll see each and every ability for each tier of guild membership is spelled out" ??? Am I looking at a different page? We're talking about Guild aren't we? If you're not saying that the information isn't already there then I certainly am. Hmmm this all sounds a little harsh, well I'll end on a funny note then.
 * Q: How do you drive a programmer crazy?
 * A: GO TO Q.
 * Good now I got my point across hopefully without antagonising Tanaric too much, even if I do think he's been caught in that while loop or something :) --Xasxas256 07:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Quote from guild (emphasis added): "He will show you around potential Guild Halls, which you can purchase if you are the leader of a guild and possess a Celestial Sigil."


 * As far as the emblemer, that was my fault. I rewrote this article some time ago, and because it's no longer written as a tutorial for new guild leaders, some implication was lost.  I added a sentence to the cape section making it clear that only leaders can purchase capes.


 * The guild article contains all the information that these other pages contain. Leader and officer are still delete-worthy.  &mdash;Tanaric 22:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Other Options
If you want to suggest another option do so here, follow the format to make it esier for everyone else please.

Combine Leader, Officer & Member with Guild:


 * 1) Combine the Information from Leader and Officer into the Guild article, perhaps in a table as Tanaric suggested that shows the powers of the relevant ranks. Something like this: -- William Blackstaff



This gets confusing when new stuff isn't added to the bottom of the page ~_~" I vote AGAINST delete. Currently I don't care if it's a redirect, disambig, or a full-feature article. -PanSola 10:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm also voting against, but I feel strongly that it should be a disambig. Kidburla 12:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Well thanks for sticking up this article guys, when I created it I thought it was crazy that we didn't have a page for Officer Member and Leader. I don't want to see it deleted either, basically if someone types "leader" into the search field on the nav bar and hits Go it should take them somewhere, not say GuildWiki does not have an article with this exact name like it did before. I also don't know if Party leader needs an article. I think just having a Leader article and saying in it that "Leader can also refer to party leader, the person who created a party and can add more members to the party." So in short, I'd prefer to keep the article but I don't object to having a redirect but a disambig page is unnecessary IMO. --Xasxas256 05:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
It's a proper in-game term. At the most it'd be a candidate for Redirection, not deletion. -PanSola 00:50, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to have too much of a cry if you delete this, (and Member & Officer ) it didn't take me that long to create but as PanSola says it's an in-game term, it's not even slang or a acronym. If you've joined a big guild as a Member you might be curious to see what the Leader can do, when you search for the term "Leader" something should come up. That's why I created this article. If you're the Leader of your guild, you might want to know what the Officers can do before promoting people to that position. The Guild article does say a lot about the administrative tasks that can be done but it's not written for that purpose, they're spread right across the article. It also doesn't say for example that only a Leader can change a Guild Emblem. --Xasxas256 02:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If we keep the article (which I'm infifferent about), we should move it to Guild Leader, because plain "Leader" could be mistaken for "Party Leader" or any other kind of leader. -- 04:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * What infifferent about it!!! Tetris L this is like the abortion debate, you can't sit on the fence!! Or hang on maybe infifferent means you passionately support it, keeping the article that is. Or perhaps not. Well I'm still up for keeping this article but changing it to Guild Leader sounds good to me. --Xasxas256 04:54, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll pick a side then. :P Generally, I'm always in favor of keeping information together as much as possible, and split into separate articles only if necessary. That's because information scattered over separate articles is easily missed/overlooked, and because separate articles always mean some degree of redundancy. So, frankly, I'd rather keep the info about the Guild Leader as a paragraph within the Guild article. The Leader or Guild Leader article (if we keep it at all, and not turn it into a redirect) should be brief, pointing towards the Guild article for more detailed info. -- 05:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Dump Leader, make Guild leader a redirect imo. --Xeeron 08:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Even if you "dump" Leader, you still have to make it a redirect or a disambig page, because the word "Leader" is used standalone by the game. -PanSola 08:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Does every word or term that's being used in the game warrant it's own article (even if it's just a redirect)? I'd say NO. Only if a term is frequently searched for or linked to we should create an article or redirect for it. Otherwise we'd open a can of worms. Gimme a minute or two and I'll think of a few dozend terms that are used ingame that we haven't covered yet. -- 08:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Stupid Tetris L going against me, get back on the fence, I preferred you up there!! I think that knowing what each of the 3 positions can do is useful. It's useful to people who've only just got into RPGs and it's useful for people who've come from other games because the titles and their powers are likely to be different. It's also most useful if people can search for the term and go straight to the relevant article. I'm not opposed to the Guild Leader idea either but Leader would need a redirect because people would search for "leader" not "guild leader" as the wonderful and intelligent PanSola has said and you should all listen to PanSola more, this side of the fence is fantastic, next week The Who are playing live! Having all 3 positions redirect to Guild is ok too I guess but a fair bit of content from the 3 articles would have to be added. --Xasxas256 09:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think Leader should be a disambiguation page (for Party/Guild leaders), Leader (Guild) a redirect. The reason is this: Suppose someone wants to link to the information about leaders in guilds. If Leader doesnt exist, they have to use the full pipe notation:  leader . But if leader (guild) is a redirect to guild, they can use the short pipe notation  leader (Guild) , which displays as just leader. So for example someone could say the leader is the only person who can buy a Guild Hall. Kidburla 15:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

My vote: Leader is a disambiguation page to Party leader and Guild leader. No need for Leader (Guild) and Leader (Party). --Karlos 16:38, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Chalk up another vote for Karlos's suggestion. --Xasxas256 01:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The need for Leader (Guild) and Leader (Party) is to allow use of the "short" pipe notation  leader (Guild) . See e.g. the bottom of Tanaric's user page, the "Un-Name Crusade". Kidburla 06:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The pages contain no content as of yet. Everything on them is already in guild. Further, the only time you'd ever reference these pages is within guild, so what's the point?

I consider these dictionary definition pages. The powers of a guild leader in his guild are detailed in guild. There is nothing else special about being a guild leader. There is no social effect, no visual identification, nothing. It is *only* a rank within a guild, and as such, should be contained on the guild page. This is the same reason there's no need for object or party member.

I realize that perhaps guild isn't the easiest to find a table of powers of the guild leader. While I don't personally find this useful, I can see the merit in it. I'd rather see a summary table of intraguild rank at the bottom of guild than seperate articles that merely spew a dictionary defintion and a link to guild... "Guild leader: the leader of a guild" is not a useful article to me. &mdash;Tanaric 16:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Tanaric. Perhaps adding a "Guild Structure" subtopic within the Guild page would best explain the powers that the leader, officer, and member have (or don't have). --TheSpectator 19:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)