Talk:Ray of Judgment

I've captured this from a random boss on the mission after the Enternal Grove. I don't remember the name of the boss so I won't add it... if I do the mission again and find him I'll write it down. Alxa 11:51, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

As far as I know, all the afflicted bosses of the same profession have the exacct same elite skill. So the Afflicted Monk boss in Unwaking Waters would definitely have this. --Kit Engel 11:19, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

Ray of Judgment vs Signet of Judgment
Ray of Judgment does about 25-30 more damage than Signet of Judgment depending on the number of points in Smiting (which is about 40% more damage), and it does extra burning damage against animated undead, but it disables non-smiting skills for 10 seconds. Signet of Judgment knocks down the target, costs 15 less energy, has a 5 second shorter recharge, can have it's recharge cut nearly in half using Mantra of Inscriptions, and is immune to energy-denial. Personally, I would rather take Signet of Judgment, unless I knew I was going up against a minion master. Am I the only one? --Tjoneil 23:41, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

In typical situations, signet is clearly the wiser choice. However, since Ray is a spell, it gains a slight advantage with a potential halved casting/recharge rate. With the influx of new anti-signet spells, like Icy Prism, ray of judgement might find itself in a sideboard. In general, it's more of a fun novelty skill than a cornerstone elite. It's effectiveness shows in alliance battles, which frequently feature minion masters. -- Sinborn 22:15. 19 May 19 2006 (CDT)

Ray of Judgment can be copied with Arcane Echo. If you Arcane Echo Ray of Judgment and cast both on a group of undead creatures (for example the awakened in Desolation in elona) you will most likely kill all of them. Not tested --- Arthas 14:27, 10 April 2007

That would be 15 energy from Arcane Echo, 15 energy from Ray of Judgment and another 15 energy from Ray of Judgment, so 45 energy for a Mo/Me or Me/Mo... Quite energy intensive, I wouldn;t use this actually... &mdash;Sig mA   08:21, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Toss in Auspicious Incantation, even with low Inspiration, before the Arcane Echo for a free Arcane Echo (and extra energy if your pool wasn't full already. It won't increase the disable on anything (so long as you cast a spell after AE).  Anyway, I'd improve this idea by suggesting SoJ with Mantra of Signets---only 15E for your double punch. --69.237.68.225 02:10, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * To bad Arcane Echo don't copy sigets for you then.. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.150.212.6 (contribs).
 * He was talking about using it with this, not siggy. Also, please sign --Gimmethegepgun 00:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Usage notes overly obvious.
Im sorry but do we really need to tell people that echoing the spell does double damage? Yes its true, but its also blindingly obvious. Ive always thought of usage notes as tips on use that arent quite so obvious or more complicated (like using an ally to inflict bleeding then casting fragility followed by virulence followed up by epidemic). Dont get me wrong tips are good but to me this is on par with saying that gash works better if you use sever artery first.--TypoNinja 00:25, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Consider using with a group en masse as a spike, you'd only need 5 monks w/ 16 smiting to... drop someone dead, if timed right. And only with one skill (By all.), in comparison to blood spikes (Needs 8 people) and ranger spikes (...I lol'd!). This is a very powerful spike skill in my book, but echoing it doesn't seem a viable idea except perhaps in AB, where it'd drain 45 points of energy in a matter of seconds. Owwwww... Kamahl 10:05, 2 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Wasting 5 elite slots for 1 Spike/each 30 seconds? IMO it`s stupid, spike groups rely on spiking the fastest way possible (5-8 seconds/spike). And adjacent isn`t large area, so it won`t help much (except Oppresive Gaze for blood spike, as it can be cast each 7 seconds and may mislead Infuser). --Nivrax 11:42, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * You'll see. You'll all see the power this elite bears. What do blood spike groups do? Oh right waste 8 player slots to take down one foe. This only takes 5 players, and so long as your team doesn't suffer losses in HA, who cares about the recharge? You can keep up pressure with Banish, Smite, and Spear of Light while it's pouring back together. I think it's dumb to waste 8 slots when your defense becomes wretchedly horrid. Plus with the new 6 man HA, this'll only take 4 players and still almost always provide an instant-kill, with no additional spells needed. Let's see, 4 Smiting monks bringing heal area and karei's circle... ball build? 71.68.110.118 14:48, 11 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Except the smiters can't do anything but smite due to the recharge. Effectively anyway. Why not use a Moa Spike then? FYI Holy Strike does almost as much damage, has a duplicate, and is not an elite. Have a galer, and 4-5 spikers. AoD/shadowwalk/death's charge to the target, Holy Strike. They are dead. If they aren't Stone Soul Strike again. I don't think they can infuse 1100 damage in 2 seconds. And, ooo, look at the recharge. GG.--Silk Weaker 04:32, 3 November 2006 (CST)

Total damage maths
"This is particularly helpful in Alliance Battles where Minion Masters are very common. This could potentially do (at 16 Smiting Prayers) 220 damage + burning for 9 seconds (126 damage) = 346 damage to each minion."

I realize it says' potentially', but I think an important distinction is that most often, it will deal far, far less burning damage: Minions are typically running at quite high degen, and with Verata's Sacrifice nerfed, most of the time, you won't add much, if any, damage at all through burning degen, making that effect largely useless. Merengue 17:06, 16 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Acutally Merengue, given the rapid rebirth of minions in Alliance Battles, I'd say that the burning adds quite a bit of

damage.--Ryudo 02:38, 5 December 2006 (CST)

why is this elite ?
 * because it deals the highest damage(unconditionally) of any smiting skill.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 02:11, 1 January 2007 (CST)

Does this guy spawn in Vizuanah Mission or not, i just did the mission hoping to cap this, didn't see the guy. --Durga Dido 20:17, 11 February 2007 (CST)
 * Vizunah boss spawns vary.--Carmine 13:43, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Why does someone post to bring epidemic? It disables epidemic for 10 seconds and burning lasts 10 secs max....

There are 7 other party members, I'm sure somebody could bring Epidemic. The Hobo 18:15, 2 March 2007 (CST)

condition
only monk skill that can inflict a condition? and it's not even on humans!


 * Draw Conditions inflichts condiitons on self, sort of. --84.24.206.123 08:13, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

Needs buff, fast.
Light of Deldrimor so pwn's Ray of Judgment and it's not elite. Yes, I know, it is "hard" to raise your Deldrimor Title Track compared to raising points in Smiting Prayers. But srsly, this needs a buff. Something like: burning for 1...3 seconds unconditional, and an additional 3...8 seconds if it hits an Undead or minion or whatever. Basically, change it to be like the new Spirit Burn, but AoE and Holy damage. (T/C) 15:05, 9 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Light of Deldrimor requires you to be in the middle of the fight, cannot be powered by runes - and cannot be used in PvP. However, I would say, SoJ pwns both of them :) --Jorx 01:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes Ray of Judgment needs buffed. But comparing it to any PvE only skill is useless as these skills are generally overpowered (even without the poorly conceived title potency).  --Mooseyfate 13:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I so agree with Entropy, if they did that I would acctually create a monk to use this skill --Cursed Angel 13:00, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Create a monk for smiting prayer spells? &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  13:02, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Why not? I never understand why they made an attribute that has almost no use at all. I know that they dont want healing and dmg in the same build (look what they did to rt spike), but al least make it a viable thing to run Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 13:05, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I use my monk for prot.. &mdash; S h  a  d  y  G  u  y  13:12, 15 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I use my Smite scalp in conjunction with an Axe and a certain Elite. The only time I really Smite, is against Torm's. R8+Call=300+ damage, and they have MM's :P --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 22:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You'd think a beam of Holy Light would have a larger range than adjacent. Zulu Inuoe 16:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Whaddya think? Time for the lame tag? - Aubee91 22:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

In the Shards of Orr if three heroes use this skill simultaneously all the mobs die!--:-) GlennThePaladin (Talk,Contrib) 18:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I seriously agree, this skill needs a huuuge buff, but then if they buff it too much or in some odd way, they risk making it too good, and making a new type of spike for PvP teams... But yea, it needs a buff of some type. Perhaps, also KD minions/spirits. (IDEA!) Perhaps blind! I mean, you are sending a ray of light at someone. If you shine a flashlight into someone's eyes they usually cant see for at least a second, same thing here, just on a Much bigger scale.--71.67.243.230 05:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Echo... echo... echo...
So, does this have any affect on Arcane Echo or Echo? after thinking about it a bit, i don't think it should mess with that, but i still want to make sure. Uberxman1028 01:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Update
This skill has been updated 12/11/08 without any update notes. ~ Problematic Plum 03:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Game updates/20081211? Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 03:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The developer notes refer to this skill as an elite Holy Wrath, but it is important to note that Ray of Judgment requires an enemy target and manifests itself at the foe's location, not at the caster's, thereby mimicking skills like Fire Storm more rigidly than Holy Wrath. Lazuli  05:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I modified the related skills section to more accurately reflect the skill's new form. I feel that the two AOE burning spells are relevant enough to deserve their place in the section.  Lazuli  05:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * the ele skills are very similar to this yes, but i think its important to note that the burning effect on this skill is reapplied each second. and not applied at the very end like the related ele skills.--92.6.217.87 11:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't believe Smiters get a pulsing burning skill before Eles. Lame. In other news, SoO got harder, and Afflicted Monks are a bitch now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's just a smiting prayers version of Searing Heat, with the burning on each pulse. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 18:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Earthen_Shackles --Xaerth 20:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill RULES! Its better then SH:-) I love armor ignoring damage! (in JQ+FA)--85.207.210.115 02:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)johnny
 * Small AoE is small. Too bad. If it was nearby it'd be jawesome. 62.0.189.158

AoE Scatter?
Just think we should test before removing/leaving the anon's note (unless it already has been, of course, but I would prefer a more "reliable" source). King Neoterikos 06:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone who tests and finds it true can readd it. That's too much of a stretch to AGF. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And I agree with your post-mortem on your edit. It seems extremely sussed to me. King Neoterikos 08:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to be true in easy mode, but then again, scatter in easy mode is erratic at best. I'll try it in normal mode for 600/Smite/Feel the pain sometime. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have done this in both easy and hardmode and it doesn't cause scatter. So, it is interesting but I think the relatively small amount of damage will keep it from becoming huge with farming. I wonder how it might do with things like glowing gaze to restore energy though. Edit, still being wiki I will provide proof. Was so busy trying to get screen shots I ended up dieing. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 14:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If the mob doesn't scatter from RoJ, then multiple players can use this skill at the same time for a huge spike...if that doesn't scatter the mob away, then this might work in DoA or other farming areas. Smiteway. Light out 09:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees! The result I was hoping for!! Shards of Orr HM, anyone? I'll be right back... King Neoterikos 10:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's ironic, since this was already used in SoO before the change to cause a huge spike and basically zap the Undead in one blow. Now you'll need a Perma or something to tank and gather all the mobs for you. Anyway, EBSoH and Intensity and "By Ural's Hammer!" would give more damage. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm being a bit too strict here but I don't think EBSoH can increase the damage dealt by holy damage. It never has when I've tried. Intensity and "By Ural's Hammer!" work with it though. 89.242.169.4 13:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, you're right. Doh. Anyway, I would like to try this with new Fevered Dreams. Pulsing Daze...? o_O [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, RoJ can be useful with other Paragon skill that are burning related such as "they're on fire" or burning singet...Light out 16:04, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm using Ray of Judgment on the big Skale mob in Fahranur, the First City, and they definitely scatter. Smaller groups do not, however. It's similar to the behavior with Shield of Judgment. 08:40, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I didn't fake that picture. True I never had more than 7 or so in a group at once, but the ones that were there all just stood around and took it. Could it have been a stealth nerf? I Will try on my monk again in a few, and try to get better screen shots. Also I will use Istanbul to make a video.[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 12:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Istanbul is being incredibly annoying, so until I can give it a good kick the video will have to wait. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 14:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The scatter you're talking about is not actually AoE scatter. It's what I like to call the "retreat tactic", which is only present in Hard Mode (they removed it from NM when they introduced loot-scaling). Whenever a foe takes too much damage (be it AoE or otherwise) and there's 3 or more foes attacking you, that foe runs out to regenerate. If more than one foe is taking a lot of damage, they take turns regenerating, but there's always 3 monsters attacking you. This only goes for melee mobs, casters have other tactics and rangers have none. AoE scatter on the other hand is caused by AoE skills (duh) and is present in both NM and HM. You can see it's different because the foes don't actually run away to regenerate, they just run away from the AoE source and return when the AoE is gone (which happens within a few seconds as opposed to the time it takes to regenerate). Also, unlike the "retreat tactic", ALL of them run away. I've tested this in NM and HM on trolls outside droks and raptors outside rata sum using various AoE skills (Symbol of Wrath, Snow Storm and Lava Font). All of these skills cause AoE scatter in both NM and HM. Ray of Judgment, however, doesn't cause AoE scatter in either NM or HM, but it still triggers the "retreat tactic" in HM, which resembles AoE scatter but is not the same. I think they forgot to flag this skill as AoE. 195.169.206.211 22:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I am just hoping that instead of a bug, they decided that smiters should be something more than a joke. I think that by adding this they have made it so monks are more than just lifeless healing machines. If it is a bug, well it won't be the first or last. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 22:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Healbot: " I did not murder him!" *RoJs the table.* Deviant Priest 00:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hahaha! +10 with the I, Robot reference Darksamus8 00:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Gah! I dont think heroes or henchman (or even some players) know this is AoE either. It's causing Fleshreaver Hounds to slaughter me. N Segick 04:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Particle cannon
Activated! --Gimmethegepgun 00:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG! I knew it reminded me of something in Command and Conquer! ^_^ I hope they never revert it...what other skill lets you pretend you are Kratos AND supreme commander of US armed forces at the same time? <3 [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You DIDN'T notice that? Wow, that was like the FIRST THING I thought of when I saw this thing :P --Gimmethegepgun 20:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * hell yeah, that game was and is still good. i also thought of it instantly ^_^ 86.95.231.197 20:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The first thing i thought when i saw this skill was that god was shoop da whooping my enemies.

A Great Idea!
So i was sitting in Fort Aspenwood (Kurzick), and the subject of Jesus Beam(This) came up. Remembering the skillbar of 8 mendings, i decided to think of a way to make a skillbar of 8 RoJ's in a controlled environment(Scrimmage). But i only managed to get 7. Player 1 and 3 are on team 1, Player 2 on team 2. P1 casts 2->1->3@P3. P2 casts 1. P1 casts 4@P2. P2 casts 2. P1 casts 5@P2->6@P2->7@P2->4->3->5->4->6->5->7->6. Totally useless information when it comes to real strategies, but it's a fun idea.--Darksyde  00:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Player 1 [[Image:Ray of Judgment.jpg|30px]][[Image:Arcane Echo.jpg|30px]][[Image:Arcane Mimicry.jpg|30px]][[Image:Inspired Enchantment.jpg|30px]][[Image:Revealed Enchantment.jpg|30px]][[Image:Arcane Larceny.jpg|30px]][[Image:Arcane Thievery.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]]
 * Player 2 [[Image:Echo.jpg|30px]][[Image:Arcane Echo.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]]
 * Player 3 [[Image:Ray of Judgment.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]][[Image:Optional.jpg|30px]]

Trivia
Do not want 13:37, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ..............why? I could just create redirects instead, but that seemed excessive. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless Emily Diehl or someone says "Yes, this skill's animation is a reference to an Ion Cannon, the power of Jesus Christ, and the Hammer of Dawn," then INAFR. Community labels have no place in trivia. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:24, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pot and a plethora of others begs to differ. Extremely common lexical usage/abbreviations are the epitome of trivia. Besides, the trivia only stated that the skill is often called those things (by players); not that it was definitely a reference made intentionally by ANet, therefore making your INAFR null and void. If you wish to purge community labels, best start hunting, because I know there are other pages which list other such. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Time to go add "Kurdicks" to Kurzicks then. :o [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:34, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you do that, I'll make a redirect to Undead Rurik from "Dead Spoiler Guy". [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:36, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * DO EEEET [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:36, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Suxons Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 14:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. But you forgot Jesus Beam, which I'd dare say is the most common one. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:45, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Prz, I'm not creating that one. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:49, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I dare say that I've outdone myself once again for best contribution to the wiki of all time. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Jesus Beam, God Beam, (pewpew) Lazor, BAAHMMachine... Yeah, whatev :P You could go on for a while, really. Also, Mark of Imba -> Mark of Insecurity, while you're at it.... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that one wouldn't be on the same level, since it's related to functionality rather than the skill's appearance and would thus be subject to change. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I see that everyone here is still fighting the good fight :P -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Isk8   (T/C) 14:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well we have to do something to set us apart from GWW :D [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:00, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

(reset) Btw, Entropy, the youtube link you originally put on the article was not the Ion cannon, but generass' lame ripoff, the Particle cannon ("ooh look at me, we can make a crappy CnC game!" --EA Games)--El_Nazgir 15:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Complain to User:Gimmethegepgun in that case, I got it from him D: [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Needs Nerf, Fast...
Well not really, but I wish real monks would return to AB. It's gotten to the point where I assume a PUG monk is carrying ROJ. Lazuli 17:32, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It does get rather tiring not being able to ever get a real monk anymore. Even outside of AB, it seems like every PUG monk is a smiter now. :\ Although of course there it don't bother me so much since I've got handy monk hero/hench always available, but still... Someday, if they ever gave Warriors a skill that let them be effective healers, like "Strength's Boon" or something, you can bet that's suddenly all you'd see for a long time. I hope the novelty wears off soon and people realize it's kind of important to the success of the team to have those redbars going up. :\ (The main problem is that RoJ is just a good skill period, especially with the AoE bug, there is no real reason to replace it or not use it...heck, have you seen the RoJ Wammos? 12 smiting, 12 swords or whatever...) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm also not a fan of how Elementalists are now obsolete. Ok, that's an exaggeration because ROJ is a tiny aoe and quite easy to spot.  But this skill could do with a slightly higher energy cost and recharge.  Energy should be tight on Monks, after all. Lazuli  02:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Energy is pretty tight if you're using Arcane Echo - that's 35 energy, and most normal Monk have an energy max of 35 anyway. Castigation Signet gives back enough for one RoJ. Other than that you'd be relying on stuff like Inspiration Magic for pdrain or something - but that's not really related to RoJ.
 * I also beg to differ that eles are obsolete - the AoE difference is very important, not for the shrine NPCs necessarily but just in general. Meteor Shower is also a useful thing. RoJ monks don't usually have much spec left over for self-defensive or healing skills either, while an ele has plenty of possible points for some type of defense, or speedbuff, or whatever. And that's just talking about Fire Magic. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, of course. I still rock out with my Ele in AB, largely for the reasons you detailed.  I'm mainly just QQing, as the expression goes.  And as far as PVE goes, Elementalists have been obsolete for a while (HM).  Lazuli  04:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to start smacking the Monks you find then o_O. Or bring some of your own. I guess I just haven't noticed it because I have exactly zero faith in a PuG regardless of what it is I'm setting out to do. (Though I will admit, I RoJ, but only in PvE, and it's not the main thing my monk does. Gogo Healer's Boon!) Skippster 05:55, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this should have some level of restraint. With every Monk in ABs and CMs running RoJ instead of healing or protting (or both), everything is just which team can killwipe the others plus NPCs faster. Although if I were Anet, this wouldn't get nerfed one bit; everything else would be buffed!Konradishes 06:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If every monk is running RoJ, why don't you fake them out and bring... a healer! *gasp* Since the other team has an RoJ instead of a normal monk, you'll kill them while your team stays alive. The only way a normal monk wouldn't be able to outheal 2 RoJ's (by way of echoing) is if your teammate doesn't see that massive bright blue column of light and moves out of it. All Anet needs to do is make it cause AoE scatter for the AI. --Macros 07:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * on any other class this AOE spell wouldnt be that big of a deal but seeing as the healer/prot class can single handedly capture shrines in AB/CM with 1 skill i think something needs to be done.24.46.41.245 19:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The only differene between a Monk using RoJ and anyting else is that they can have up to 4 more ranks in Smiting Prayers. This boosts the damage somewhat but is otherwise not that important. Smiters do not have that much in the way of self-defense or healing etc. especially after Smiter's Boon got removed. If they are speccing something like 11 divine - 12 prot/heal - 12 smite, then that could be a problem... but, that means they are dropping WoH/prot spirit/something else important to take RoJ for domages. It's true, they can solo cap. But then again, many classes have always been able to do that, while still retaining usefulness for the rest of the team too. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:49, 3 March 2009 (UTC)


 * For CM, a RoJ needs to be attrib rank 15 (or was it 16?) to instaclear a shrine, assuming no heals. Taking just the Smites and RoD also makes you quite sturdy already. Since you only have Smiting so far, you can go Mo/P for Fall Back and Make Haste, to speed up carriers, and spec a little into prot or heal to fend off attackers that much better. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:53, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Smite Hex/Smite Condition won't heal for anything significant unless you have decent Divine Favor. They'll deal damage to nearby foes, sure, but they are by no means a sufficient defense in and of themselves. Not to mention if the foe doesn't need conditions or hexes anyway, or attacks from range, or... (hint: prage, apply, seering flooms...) If you spammed Reversal of Damage, that could keep you alive for awhile, but then you'd run out of energy and still be useless to the rest of the team. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Macros, I think you misunderstood my complaint. It's not that I can't handle running up against ROJ monks.  I think they're horribly weak against human opponents unless assisted by snares/KD.  My complaint is that because this skill is perceived as so powerful, every PUG monk is running it.  And no, monking myself is not a good answer.  Monking for an AB PUG is nothing short of masochistic. Lazuli  01:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I like how they have failed to fix the AoE bug after like three updates now. (T/C) 02:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I only recently found out my favorite class is ele, long after HM came out, and therefore well after eles became obsolete. i've been trying to get into FoW and UW groups for days now, and they don't want to take me cuz i cause scatter. i don't care what/who i have to do to get them to make RoJ cause scatter. this is driving me nuts, and when Rodgort's Invocation hits for about 70 dmg in HM to a caster, there's just about nothing i can do to be effective. yes, yes i know half of this is ranting about eles in HM and is mostly irrelevant, but still. Akbaroth 05:53, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Scatter can be avoided by use of a tank (like a perma), Meteor Shower, and Deep Freeze. However because this requires coordination and more work, no one bothers anymore. And like you said, armor n stuff. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The skill itself is not imbalanced in concept,and my one complaint with it is more due to the stupidity of the AI in ABs/JQ/Aspern. The BEEMwill instant kill any and all NPCs stationed at a shrine if placed well. I realize that its easy to interrupt, and for that very reason, monks have taken to using those anti-rupt skills, making rupting a near-useless counter. The BEEM does too much damage for its armor-ignoring nature,. for a human, its not such a big deal, because a human will move, But this one skill is making it far to easy to solo cap shrines in those shrine-capping contexts. Not only does this further obsoletize Eles, but it also reduces greatly the need to use teamwork in GW, which is a team-based game. I feel those NPCs need to become better ar moving around, or the skill needt so be made less lethal, to them at least. Unfortunately I have no suggestions on how to do this. Does anyone else? (manual signing ftw) -Shadowshear 8:20p.m.GMT, March 26, 2009


 * AB NPCs have 480 hp, one Beam just barely deals 330 dmg on r16. But it's still ridiculous, yes. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I made it out to deal exactly 352 damage at 16, but your point still stands. However, Anyone who has played Jade quarry knows, one Ray wipes a shrine clean; all 5 npcs of different professions. I assumed (apparently erroniously) that Jade Quarry npcs had an equal HP ammount to the AB ones, that being 480. Apparently they have less? Thats absolutely rediculous. If thats the case, then theres your problem, give the NPCs more HP, up to the normal level of 480 and suddenly BEEM looses its godly oneshot instacap power. At least then they'd need to echo it. (though some bring echo anyhow.) Shadowshear 22:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's good if they are forced to use AEcho, since that eats a huge chunk of their energy and also denies them from self-defensive skills like Dash. AB NPCs have around 480 health, as I can kill them using a chain of skills that kills the Master of Damage, who has 480. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:41, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thats what I was saying, It would be good if BEEM didn't insta kill all the NPCs at JQ shrines. But it does. I looked at the discussion on that article, and it does definately seem that they have less HP than normal. That should be changed. They need to give the JQ NPCs more health. That way it would force Echoing of BEEM, which as entropy said would slow them way down and consume copious ammounts of energy. Shadowshear 14:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hiiling Reeboon wins from Beam. Then just put RoF or something similar on a fourth, and you have 4 NPCs saved. Aren't you awesome? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Uf, just tried Unwaking Waters for first time in ages and this makes a hecka difference - it was tough enough dodging the spores and scales and Dark Chain Lightning, but now if those don't get you the Jesus Beam nails ya in the chaos... and if you go for the Monks straight off the Rits just rez them. AAAAAUGH! (now, part of this is working with a crappy PUG, but still...) Racked up enough DP on the the sin and the other ele and the hench team that Tahlk and Dunk got overworked, and we fried in about 10 seconds in the final fight. GRRR. Qing Guang 03:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done Unwaking Waters about ten times since the change and haven't been having any special difficulties. There are usually only one Monk per group, sometimes none... and almost always it is the other group which racks up the brunt of the damage and deaths, whether they are hench or not. (I like to think it is because I play better.) Actually, tbh, RoJ makes this mission even easier than it was... the high armor-ignoring damage is perfect for Kuunavang. You can break all the barriers during the first encounter or even skip straight to the final fight much easier than it used to be. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)`


 * I've noticed one difference: When doing Vizunah Square on HM, at the last big fight I turned my back once and i ended up Master Togo totally getting raped by 3 RoJ's....epic fail82.72.233.33 10:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed...
One of these predictions actually happened with this skill. How odd. Cress Arvein 01:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * now we just need more smites that cause conditions. Must...have...monks...that are like elementalists...-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 09:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hero Use
I was in HoS earlier with 3 ROJ monk heros-they refused to use ROJ unless I commanded them too, or until they got 5 minutes into the battle-which it never reached that point because I was in HM. Anyone else? Gorbachev116 21:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Were they on avoid combat? -- Shadowcrest  21:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * For me the heroes are using RoJ instantly after it's recharged. Only exception is if their status is set to avoid. -- [[Image:Antidote_Signet.jpg | 24px | ]] Zerser 23:22, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Same for me. Although they sometimes take a few seconds to recast RoJ, depending on how busy they are not letting everyone on my team die :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Nerf or Not?
People are saying RoJ has been nerfed... nothing on updates page said anything except HEROES move out of it...to me that seems that Hero AI has been buffed not RoJ nerfed. It does not say Monsters not scatter in RoJ... i havent tried in PvE, but Jade Quarry RoJ'ing shrines caused no scattering. I really doubt RoJ is nerfed tbh..
 * Heroes and HM NPCs scatter. So JQ is still the same, but HM VSF got nerfed. -Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  12:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * What a massive nerf! We need to take DF now! --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The nerf to this doesn't really affect VSF farms at all. Like vipermagi said, an application of notgoinganywhereforawhile and the problem is solved. In reality they only messed up some of the legitimate usage for this skill. Again by aiming at farming, they manage to drop the ball and screw up legitimate usage. I wish that they would put the crack pipe down for a bit and play their game. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 17:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * 'Legitimate' users of imba skills can also take DF, tbh. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately DF's energy requirement (25) is prohibitive for monks. If you take it with no points sure it holds them in place, but the energy req is pretty high. Honestly a monk doesn't have that many forms of energy management. You can use GoLE to help with that. That gives you three skills right there. DF is the best choice, at least now that CoP has been fixed. What I meant by "legitimate" was smiter monks as part of pugs. I don't play one myself, but when Im heal/proting as my monk I know that energy is always an issue. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 23:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Power Drain and WNWN give a shittonnage of energy. If you reeeallly need a lot of energy; Auspicious Incantation. Stupidity --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  09:45, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes Viper, but that would take a Mo/E/Me. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 10:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Orite, DF isn't a monk skill (it's an attribute, though) ;o I knew that of course.
 * Still, GoLE should be enough; it also makes your Ray cheaper. I only ever have Energy problems on my monk when I run Decapitate. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  10:10, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Historical Scatter note
Worth having? Even if only to make sure people understand what was changed. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  12:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Just did Vizunah Square today...Togo and Mhenlo still stood right under the roj as usual and didn't scatter at all. Nadar Cosain Amber 01:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hard Mode? -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  01:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

69.246.209.247 02:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)I did a bit of testing in both HM and NM. NM still has no scatter, and HM has eventual scatter. As in, they stand in it for most of the spell's duration, then go OHSHI- and move at the end.

69.246.209.247 02:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Er, I meant the monsters in my previous statement.


 * Yeah, I noticed they're still in it for almost all pulses in HM... After about 3 pulses they start moving, and still take damage of the 4next one.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 05:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's the regular scatter pattern. However, stacking DoTAoEs (3 Heats at the same time), makes them scatter nigh instantly, due to taking 3 AoE pulses really quickly. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  09:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)