Talk:Pogahn Passage (mission)

Bonus Objectives
I searched everywhere and could only find 3 bonus objectives. The demon one says you can either help fight or stand aside, but regardless of whether I help or not, the guards kill the demon and blame me for it. I'm wondering if the others are only available if the demon lives? Dfscott 21:21, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * The four are there. The demon has to be killed and has no effect on the appearance of the other objectives. Joseph C 12:28, 12 January 2007 (CST)

- I've noticed that the Factions pages have a Trivia section added to them where interesting tidbits of info are added. This mission's dialogues are choke-full of Star Wars (A New Hope) references, would it be alright to add that info? Or is it too soon/spoilerific? No word on the bonus objectives either. -Tene 217.129.10.157 21:42, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * I'd say go for it. Tihark Orchard has at least one Real Genius reference so I created a Trivia section and stuck it in there. Dfscott 20:06, 31 October 2006 (CST)

- I have tried bringing different heros to see if I get any different reactions from the guards. Aside from the centaur, I haven't noticed anything special. There is a named NPC by one of the gates, Guard Linno who doesn't seem to do anything. -Alinius

- I did the mission earlier and got masters although it said I had completed 4/5 optional objectives. I obtained the code. Slayed the demon. Talked to guard linno to "watch his post" (but just kept going). Escorted the prisoners. And I also kept all prisoners alive in hopes it was the 5th, but apparently got best I could anyways. Could be a bug to my number, but also didnt see anything else I could have accomplished.

-- I just did the mission, and got Master's with 4 out of 5 (couldn't find the 5th) as well. Updating page with that number, if anyone could check if 2 optionals done, that would be nice. Sounds more logical with 2-3 Expert, 4-5 Masters. --Rydier 01:47, 1 November 2006 (CST)

--- Why do we even think there's a 5th? The mission makes no mention of it. ~ BlueNovember
 * Never seen a 5th! Joseph C 12:28, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * These are old comments - The "Mission Complete!" screen at the end of the mission used to say "n of 5 optional objectives completed!" (even though you still got Master's for finishing 4) which is why people were looking for a 5th objective. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 18:16, 12 January 2007 (CST)

I just mastered it aswell - after a couple of failed attempts (*sighs*) - and does now indeed state that there are 4 additional objectives and not 5. (User:Girion 03:02, 3 November 2006 (CST))

Masters aswell, with the 4 objectives completed. 2 real players, 1 mm, 1 wmo (using life bond on shahai and the minion master, using a full adrenaline build to compensate for the lack of sp regen. Can get away with just 2 hench or hero monks in that case. Magua 13:57, 4 November 2006 (CST)

I don't know where to put this but there's actually a conversation where a guard is talking to a captain like his in charge lol

Star Wars parody
Bring the centaur hero for a funny parody of Star Wars at the begining of the mission. Hibou 10:39, 31 October 2006 (CST)

No damage or healing problems?
From the notes:
 * "An alternative to a human monk, is use 3 hero/henchmen monks. There was no problem with damage or healing with a group consisting of 2 healing and 1 protection Hero monk (2 live players as tanks).  If soloing you can achieve the same result having 1 hero healing 1 hero protection, and taking a henchman monk."

Has anyone actually tested this or is it baseless speculation? Captain Nebo can and will kill Shahai with one nuke. This means she needs to be constantly protected by a skill like Protective Spirit or Shelter during the battle with Nebo or she will die resulting in mission failure, there is currently no way to command heroes or henchment to buff a specific ally, which means there is no way to guarantee that they will protect Shahai. -- Gordon Ecker 19:02, 7 November 2006 (CST)
 * It turns out heroes try to use your target for buffs as well as offensive skills, so keeping Shahai selected and manually activating Protective Spirit will work, but I wouldn't call it easy. Life Barrier + Life Bond should also work, and Protective Bond might work, but would probably require giving the hero Protective Bond and several energy management skills, with everything except energy management skills disabled to prevent Protective Bond from ending. -- Gordon Ecker 02:06, 8 November 2006 (CST)

I really don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be. I have done this mission on 4 different characters and she hasn't died once. However, I believe that Shahai was lvl 16 when NF first came out. Subsequently, her level, and presumably HP has risen. However, if you are paranoid about her dying, simply plant your flag and retreat slightly to the edge of the aggro zone. Use a long/recurve/flatbow to help select targets for your party (yes, you need not be a ranger to use a bow and can reach enemies outside of the aggro zone). A minion master is helpful (either Olias or Master of Whispers). Zhed is useful as a warder as well. Crimson Butcher 06:00, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Eh... I had Zhed as a Prodigy Interupter, with one Hero Monk. Thats it for defense. Plowed through it. Dont see why you think THREE monks is necessary. 71.207.231.207 15:48, 24 November 2006 (CST)


 * I removed the special references to Shahai from the Notes section, since she's now L20 and just as hardy as Kormir. Personally I don't really think there's any need for special strategies against the boss, as I had no trouble at all with only 1 hero and 1 hench monk, and no interrupts, wards, or spirits. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 01:28, 28 November 2006 (CST)


 * I concur, there is a long section about notes, though in fact the successful tactic is the same as with any escort mission in GuildWars: just don't have any player with melee weapons. If every player in the team uses ranged attacks, and only minions/hench warriors do the melee, the escorted ones will stay back out of harm's way. In this particular mission, this makes all the fights a walk in the park as the mobs are rather low level, Me (Ranger), Olias (MM) and Menhlo were all it took to beat it. Caths 03:31, 16 December 2006 (CST)


 * I think Kormir and Shahai might be invincible. I just did the mission and they didn't take any damage. I also remember them not taking damage when I did the mission about a month back. -- Gordon Ecker 05:17, 7 January 2007 (CST)

Sticky
Sometimes Kormir and Shahai get stuck just outside the fort. I got all the way to the end and went back, they wouldn't budge! what a waste of time >.< &mdash; Skuld 15:47, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * This happened twice to me. The first time, I didn't notice until the end.  I ran back and Kormir eventually moved after going past her back into the prison and wiggling around a bit, but I didn't have time to get back.  The 2nd time, Shahai got stuck.  I noticed it after the first group but she was really difficult to get free, and in the process, Kormir got stuck as well!  I eventually got them both loose but was short on time, so I just ran past the final boss and got credit anyway (didn't realize you could do that).--Dfscott 18:06, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Same here.. it happened to me twice in a row (on two different characters). I noticed Kormir and/or Shahai getting "greyed out" in the Party list so I went back and "unstuck" them by running around them. Really annoying to have to do that while you see that timer running too.. Noobus 23:31, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * I find that the biggest problem is getting them across the long bridge from the prison back to the fortress. It seems like they try to stay a certain distance to one side of you, and when you're on the bridge this means they run into the sides and get stuck there.  If I stood at the opposite wall of the bridge and walked backwards away from them, they'd move along okay; of course, Kormir goes to one side and Shahai to the other, and then you've got the Sunspear Prisoners on top of that, so I always have to do a really stupid zig-zag-backwards-walk across the bridge just to make them follow me.
 * I don't remember having any problems with them after the bridge. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 00:49, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Glitch?
The first time I went through this mission I failed it for no reason. I did everything right, had masters in order, got to the escape point with Kormir and the gang all alive, killed all the soldiers in that area, but the mission wouldn't end. I did everything I could to try and get the escape point to activate and the mission to end, but nothing happened. Back in Pogahn Passage (location) I heard someone shouting that the mission wasn't ending for him as well. The second time I attempted the mission it ended without a problem. Has anyone else had this problem? Does something cause the quest to sometimes "break"?


 * Did you have Kormir and Shahai with you at the end? Both of them must make it to the dock to complete the mission.  If you did have both, then it sounds like there is indeed another glitch.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 19:54, 3 January 2007 (CST)

I'm sure I had both with me. I thought that I must have left one of them behind, so I double checked and both of them were right there with me. I had more than five minutes left so I tried to see if there was a certain spot on the dock I had to step on, I double checked to make sure that Kormir AND Shahai were with me, and then finally I decided to let the time run out to see if I just had to be at the escape point at the time that the clock ran out. But despite me doing everything right, the mission still failed. I found the mission rather easy so I wasn't too concerned about it, but it was still annoying to have to go through it again. 24.159.181.199 03:00, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Requirements
There's no Requirements section in this mission. I have a Tyrian character and this is a location for me. (I don't think I should have to choose Margrid the Sly as my hero over Master of Whispers when the time comes, because if I choose Master, then theoretically I can't do this mission until after I have completed the Nightfall campaign) Does anyone know what the specific requirements for turning this location in to a mission actually are? Thanks -- Joseph C 21:29, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Whoa, you're right - no one's bothered to put that in yet. Let me do that... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 23:35, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * You can do the mission if you have another player in your party who can bring Margrid. However, if you choose Master of Whispers, you also have to complete his branch of the storyline by finishing Rilohn Refuge (mission) before you can enter this mission. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 23:39, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thank you :) -- Joseph C 00:49, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, I tested it with my wife this morning. You just have to HAVE your Master of Whispers, not have done the Rilohn Refuge mission.  See  my comments in the Nightfall Mission Overviews discussion for a full explanation. ScionOfErixalimar 13:08, 5 February 2007 (CST)

user posted in article body
I have done the mission including the bonuses and have twice got to the ship with all intact with 3.5 mins to spare all on ship. Only to fail, have made sure all totally on ship,run to end of pier etc and still fail!!

Need more information then that to be able to determine the problem, you should submit a support ticket at the guildwars website. -- Xeon 12:00, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

THX 1138
Should we also add that the "1138" Referance is to THX 1138, which was the first film made by George Lucas?


 * Done. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 10:37, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Boss on bridge removed?
In the recent Normal Mode rebalancing, did they remove the group with the warrior boss that attacks as you return across the bridge? Or is there some sort of mission/dialogue-timing bug that I unknowingly exploited that prevented them from spawning? I just did the mission twice in a row and they didn't appear either time. &mdash;Dr Ishmael (talk|contribs) 12:34, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I missed him last time I did the mission as well, which was annoying as I'd switched my secondary to warrior just to cap his elite (otherwise I'd have gone for one of the others). RossMM 17:49, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I did not find him either :( 220.240.90.53 03:41, 28 April 2007 (CDT)

The warrior boss as your escaping with Kormir and Shahai? Yea I didn't find him with my warrior or ranger while doing this mission.

Trivia
In the trivia it says "The reference to cornbread may also be a reference to the movie Aliens", can someone tell me exactly how cornbread is a reference to Alien? Sacrificial Omnistar 17:23, 4 May 2007 (CDT) mine sorry


 * Apparently, cornbread is mentioned in both Alien and Aliens. See the quotes sections on imdb. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 19:53, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

Do you think we should mention that Gandara on the map looks like the second incomplete death star also? With like, that small island on the side of it being the Moon of Endor?

No, it really doesn't. >.> (T/C) 03:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Weapon Swap
Has anyone ever seen that during the first cut scene with Kormir cut-scene that she's holding Shahai's staff as if it's a spear (and Shahai has Kormir's spear held as if it was her staff). Idk if this is a glitch or a bug that anyone else has noticed. It goes back after the cut-scene anyways. I don't have a screenshot of this. 24.180.126.199 20:36, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

Difficulty
Is this mission more difficult then the mission with the Master of Whispers? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.206.83.153 (contribs).


 * I consider it much easier because you can't really fail unless your party gets wiped, or Kormir kicks the bucket. That won't happen if your Monks are any good at all for healing. The dangerous part at the end, with the timer and stuff, is not a threat if your party has any fighting capabilities at all. Just keep moving. Finally, if you care about getting Master's, Pogahn Passage is very easy compared to Riolohn Refuge. You mostly just talk to various NPCs.
 * Rilohn Refuge is harder imo, because you will face considerable damage throughout the mission unless you are not going for the Bonus. It requires a moderately specialized team setup. Also, unless you have anti-caster stuff, the Droughtlings and The Drought will likely wipe your party. This mission isn't timed, which is nice, but the likelihood of failure is still higher in my opinion. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:42, 16 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Rilohn is made rather easier by bringing winter, because of the Environmental Effect (EE) that enhances earth damage--winter changes earth to cold, so the EE effect is eliminated. Nevertheless, even with winter, Pogahn is easier.  Another trick, avoid the Dehjah at the beginning (go around her) and clear the area out to the gate, then go back and get her.


 * /agree w/Entropy. The only problem is that, unless you have Prophecies or Eye of the North, Master of Whispers is the only Necromancer hero you can get.  While not necessary, having a Necromancer hero can make many parts of the game much easier.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 11:47, 16 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Well, I've got all three campaigns so I also have got Olias. I really hate timers because my pc is pretty slow after cinematics. For this reason I also wasn't able to participate in the GWEN Sneak Peek. Because I didn't make it to the portal at time (in the What Lies Beneath/Hole of Istan quests). But when I play with other people, the mission is completed if one person can make it back on time, I presume. And when I can't do the mission for any reason, can I then also just do the Rihlon Refuge mission in a party that has the Master of Whispers? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.206.83.153 (contribs).


 * There's a note on the Refuge article about that - you have to complete the quest No Me, No Kormir, then as long as someone in the party brings Master, you can go in. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 11:19, 17 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This mission is easier than Rilohn Refuge in easy mode, and harder than it in hard mode. But if you're looking to take the easiest path to clear the campaign, the relevant comparison is Dasha Vestibule or Dzagonur Bastion, both of which are harder than either this or Rilohn Refuge.  Quizzical 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Jora does NOT become disguised male Kornan soldier
She stays looking like Jora, see


 * Scaled it. Anyhow, I'll go check for other GW:EN heroes changing, and change the article to fit. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 14:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Checked em all, çept Anton aus Tirol. The note is completely false. Female Human heroes turn into Female Kournan. Any non-Human hero, doesn't change shape. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 14:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Hard mode
Did someone did this on Hard mode, this is really insane considering you fight big groups of high level enemies with bosses. This is surely one of the most difficult HM mission in guild wars.Paul revere 05:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Isnt that the general case with any HM missions: To be HARD. Well, i done it without much problem. The groups arent, they are just a few smaller groups so pulling and patience is the key. Body Blocking also helps alot with minions(+Mark of Pain = fun). A shutdown mesmer to take down the elementalist at the end and viola! TwilightRhapsody 08:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * PBlock > Ele bosses, especially on HM. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 08:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Took a few tries to get this in hard mode. Here was my setup: me as warrior, Margrid as healing rit, Livia as minion bomb, Zhed as water elementalist with snare and Maelstrom (really helps with tearing apart the priests). Then I took 2 monks, paragon, and earth elementalist. Just make sure you kill the priests first. I everyone focus fire on the priest and had Zhed snare and cast Maelstrom so that she can't get any of her healing spells through. jhu 17:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This is one of the hardest missions?! I see someone hasn't tried any of the harder missions (e.g., Eternal Grove).  Pull one group at a time and it shouldn't be hard until the final boss.  Interrupting or dazing the boss will prevent it from getting fireball or meteor off.  You can also take advantage of terrain to block fireball, and while it won't block meteor, it will leave long periods for healing between when the boss can do any damage.  Quizzical 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow Quizzical, you must be one of the most pompous and arrogant individuals I have seen. While your contributions to HM guides is commendable, you must realize there are others who think differently from you. So what if the Op thinks the mission is one of the hardest? Just because it is not as difficult as Eternal Groove HM (Yes I have done it) doesn't make it not hard (for some). Show some class, leave the advice without the arrogant remarks. kthnxbye Havellian 04:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "you fight big groups of high level enemies with bosses" kthxbye [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I really hate this mission HM. Anyone have a build that works?Abbadons X 22:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not about builds, apart from having something to counter the end boss. I think I brought heroes with ward against harm and broad head arrow in the hopes that at least one of them would handle it.  It's mainly about pulling.  Pull one group at a time and the mission isn't too hard, provided that you have some way to stop the end boss from quickly wiping your group.  Of course, pulling only one group at a time is, in itself, rather hard.  Be careful to pull groups apart in Guard Linko's area, as he's not linked to the boss group behind him.  Also be careful to pull groups apart at the end of the mission.  Quizzical 22:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Note

 * Depending on your proffession u and ur heroes should consist of, Healer Monk, Fire Nuker, Minion Master and of Course magrid with your henchmen Being, Mesmer, Elementalist(fire), Monk(healer), Warrior. But if your Proffessions isnt, Ele or Necro or Monk, u can option to take the MM out or the Nuker out and replace them, and of course if u play as a warrior, dont bring the warrior hencmen, replace hime for something useful(paragon does well), if u play ranger ur self u might wanna consider bringing a Buny Thumper build(a Hammer Ranger with a pet), anf if u play mesmer u can practically do this mission urself as a FC Nuker(paragons might wanna set up as a warrior, bring a sword or axe with a shield), Mission is very easy anyway.

To whomever added the note, please rewrite it to our standards of quality; less wandering and more grammar would do wonders. Thanks for the contribution though, I'm sure it will be a useful note once it's readable. 03:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the relevant standard of quality would be to not add random useless build advice that's no better than what an average player unfamiliar with the mission might guess. And quite possibly worse, too:  two useless fire elementalists?  Quizzical 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Update?
Hi, just so you know it's a genuine edit, I just did the mission, and Kihm was wearing female Kournan gear, not male. Either it got fixed in an update, or the comment was incorrect. Suicidal Tendencie 18:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was correct - I saw Khim as a male Kournan in the past. Yes, it is corrected - Khim's reverse sex change finally went through. XD  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Vabbi Guard
Did anyone notice the Vabbi Guard in there? He's near Vault Master Eijah. He and a Kournan Guard are talking about Centaur bites and such.--Suicidal_SNiper 20:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Noticed. He seems a bit out of place for that area. Thought it may have been a bug or something, seeing he's the only one there. --Valandil D 10:07, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Cutscenes
Hey I just did the cutscenes but there are a couple of lines I didn't catch on the screen shots, so I thought I would let you know that this one isn't word perfect. None of it really matters, it is just stuff like whether Bayel says 'then?' or 'and then?'--Bastthegatekeeper 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Aha, screenshots! So that's how people record the cutscenes.  I had just been typing as fast as I could trying to keep up, and taking about three passes to catch everything.  Quizzical 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You can use Irfanview to easily browse through your screenshots - just click the arrows to browse. Oh, and it is easy to find all of your comments when clicking "last" in the history or "diff" in recent changes or the watchlist. --mendel 22:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * For going through Nightfall, if I'm going to do a mission several times, I might as well just type directly off of the screen rather than taking screenshots. The screenshots are just extra work, as it doesn't reduce the typing.  If I ever go back to transcribe Factions cutscenes that my characters are already through, using screenshots would help a lot, though.
 * And yes, I'm aware that you can find edits in the history, though that doesn't give the context, so it would still be a pain to read. My edit description was mostly in jest, though.  Quizzical 23:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I found the diff gives enough context to make your edit very enjoyable to read, but tastes differ. Which Factions cutscenes would that be? --mendel 05:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm done with all of Factions. I've added the mission entry cutscenes to the various missions, and the mission ending cutscene to Imperial Sanctum.  Other than that, I didn't add any cutscenes to Factions (or Prophecies, for that matter).  Most of the Factions cutscenes are missing, while most of the Prophecies ones seem to be there.  I'm not sure if all of the Prophecies cutscenes are there, though.
 * After getting ten characters through a mission in easy mode, and then all ten again in hard mode, I'm not terribly keen on going back to the mission, and I'm done with all Prophecies and Factions missions. For the Nightfall missions, I either still have to get characters through in hard mode or have already transcribed the cutscenes.  I'll pick those up in the normal course of playing the game, simply by not skipping through the cutscenes when they play until I've gotten them written down.  Quizzical 05:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Routes from prison to escape point
There is a choice of several routes from the prison back to escape point - if one turns right on the way between points 4 and 8 an the map it is possible to go inside the city walls to the 3 to 9 dotted line on the map. There'll be some demon spawns in a courtyard and when they're dispatched, the gate opens. This avoids the guards along the waterfront. Any comments on which route is preferable? --mendel 05:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * While I haven't tried the alternate route, Captain Nebo is by far the hardest part of the normal route, and I'd be surprised if your alternate route skips him. Quizzical 05:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Blatant Trivia Error
The line "Another possible source for the fortress's name, Gandara, is Mobile Suit Gundam, in which there is a Zeon base on the moon named Gandara. " is completely wrong. As a fan who knows nearly everything there is about Gundam, I can tell you there is no such name 'Gandara' in any Gundam incarnation. There are however cities on the moon, of which are Von Braun and Granada. I'm not a wiki person and so I don't really know how to do a whole lot, so someone should correct this error by removing that line from the article as it has no relevance. Obviously I don't know how to 'properly format' my signature either so... :( &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.184.37.33 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC).

Gate Glitch
If you start the mission, behind you is a gate. You can just walk through, but if your too far, you just spawn outside again!80.127.24.20 18:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Mission
Is it me or this mission has never been part in a Zaishen Mission, if you know what I mean. Shadow Ghost 17:06,  31 May 2010 (GMT)
 * It's not just you, Anet forgot to include it in the zmish rotation. --Macros 16:19, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's been noted here for a while now. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:45, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia2
"Gandara is a Portugese surname, and there are several places in Portugal that bear this name. None of them are fortresses, though."

The correct term is Portuguese, and I find this sentence being incorrect as I'm Portuguese and I haven't even remotely heard of a place called Gandara. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.240.177.134 (contribs).


 * Gandara agrees. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  11:45, June 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting that while our trivia has always claimed it as a Portuguese surname, the only recorded usages as a placename are all in Spanish-speaking countries. Also, WP really needs to update that disambig page, because these people all have Spanish ancestry, not Portuguese.  Can Mr. 85.240 at least confirm that it is a Portuguese name, as well as a Spanish one?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 12:51, June 25, 2010 (UTC)