Talk:"Incoming!"

Found two bosses in Bahdza just north of Makuun with this. --Fyren 05:44, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Confirmed. They're named scracher & screecher or something like that. Wierd thing, once you killed them, some skree spawn and rush to the nearest portal without fighting. bug? --Jaimes Laig Romarto 19:59, 3 November 2006 (CDT)

WTF
Why is the skill description changing on a 1...4 scale and the table a % damage reduction scale? User:Bobmilkman/Sig 01:01, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Surely this skill description should read 1...5, not 1...4? User:Lavindathar 15:11, 1st December 2006(GMT)

Discussion
Wow... can you say anti spike? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.53.184.239 (talk • contribs) 11:14, July 28, 2006 (CDT).
 * I can dress myself too! &mdash; Skuld 13:24, 28 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Really? I'm suprised &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.53.184.239 (talk &bull; contribs) 10:25, July 29, 2006 (CDT).
 * Why is this elite? at 12 Command it gives 41% damage reduction for 4 seconds. At 12 Tactics "Watch Yourself!" gives you ~29.3% damage reduction for 10 seconds. -- Gordon Ecker 18:26, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * While I agree this skill may be underwhelming, damage reduction is quite a different matter from extra armor. Especially as many spikes use damage types that bypass armor entirely. -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 18:41, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * If you will recall, however, life stealing skills don't trigger "damage" so it is highly unlikely that they are affected by this skill. - 68.97.135.143 18:55, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * But it would technically work against Lightning Orb and Obsidian Flame (latter of which Watch Yourself doesn't help). --Vortexsam 19:00, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The thing is it will only work 20% of the time since it is 4 seconds and there is a 20 second recharge. The skill was a nice idea, but if it was 6-8 seconds it would make it more useful since it could be upkept 30-40% of the time.--Life Infusion 20:42, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It serves its purpose, to stop a spike every once in a while, there's also ways to extend the duration with a ritualist item spell that makes all shouts and chants last longer (say good bye to attacking) and the echo that makes shouts and chants last longer on a target ally...between the two you could have this up for a decent duration on most of the group, and longer on a few people. With two people carrying dedicated builds, you can keep it up almost indeffinitely. bobross


 * But the discussion is about anti-spike (presumably non-adrenal). You will always easily be able to see such a spike coming.  You don't want a long duration, you want a short recharge.  A 2s duration with 10s recharge would be an immensely better skill (though horribly unbalanced).  --68.142.14.106 09:29, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * beta skill, give the dev teams time to finish, ok? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:35, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd have to say you're all looking at this in the wrong light. Say a team with 5 paragons all had this? It could be kept up indefinitely, and to rather dire effect. Not a bad idea with the constant damage output plus the defense most paragons provide, even if it is 5 elite slots. Might only need one monk in this case, but unlikely. Still, an intriguing team build, and possibly a dynamic farming one for PvE. Don't forget you don't have to be a P primary to use this. Kamahl 14:17, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Well with 20 sec recharge, you'll probably catch half of obs flame spikes with this, if they use glyph of energy. Decent if you ask me.

Is there a cap on how long the duration of a shout can be increased? Because if you have Vocal was Sogolon and Enduring Harmony and max out command and restoration you can get Incoming to last for more than half it's recharge time. That's 50% damage reduction for more than half of the time.Waywrong

Discussion sections are NOT for dicussing the merits of the skills listed, but the editing of the page. Any discusions not on the editing of content should be removed.
 * I disagree. The tab says 'discussion', not 'page edits discussion'. --

Imbril Shadowfire  11:42, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * We are not Wikipedia. --Fyren 12:17, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * Exactly this isn't Wikipedia. This site has ties with GWonline so build/skill debate can go there in the threads provided, while editing can stay here. Also this site doesn't have the resources Wikipedia has, so forums for skill debates will help keep the actual wiki more managable.65.161.102.250 20:20, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * This site has no affiliation with GWO, they have their own wiki, which is terrible.--Fobdo 13:25, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * Wikipedia talks solely about page edits on their talk pages. We are not wikipedia, therefore we can talk about things other than just page edits and it makes this site a lot more fun to be a part of, as it functions basically like a forum. -- Hyperion` 17:13, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * I agree, I read these discussion pages to hear what people think about the skills, and this is a community created site, so the community should have the decision and we decided :P64.102.94.181 22:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Trivia?
Reference to this popular image? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.6.92.63 • contribs).


 * A shouted incoming is a commonly used warning in modern day military (english speaking, that is) for imminent air strikes, artillery shelling and the like. In many war movies thi is the last thing you hear before a big BOOM! ;) --84-175 (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2006 (CDT)


 * At the sound of mortar fire, the recruit soldier yells "Incoming!" and drops flat on his stomach. The veteran soldier drops first. -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 18:44, 29 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Which suggests that this skill is designed as anti-spike. Great thing imho and works against touchers too. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:45, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It could also be referencing to Worms, when using Napalm. :D &mdash; Galil  19:03, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Worms rocks, and yeah, the little squeaky voice of "Incoming!" before an Air Strike and then a "Noice Shot" coming from the other team XD --Terrifi Cani 17:13, 31 October 2006 (CST)
 * Or Starfox 64, where Slippy yells it in this voice of pure froggish doom :D --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:42, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Kunan the Loudmouth (Wilderness of Bahdza)

Why don't we put some of this onto the front page? 07:54, 1 May 2007 J1j2j3


 * urm, are you from the past? why would this be related to anything? "incoming" is something people just say when something is incoming, what? This saying is used in various things to do with war. Hows it related to one particullar thing? you could just put a whole list of old war films that just might happen to contain that word. --90.241.8.223 22:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

confirm boss
Can someone comfirm this boss, i never saw him there, is he only there during a quest? 203.134.131.89 04:55, 6 November 2006 (CST)

Confirm Conditions of these bosses
I have located screecher after doing Destrpy the Harpies and also cannot find this loudmouth, anyone else expierenced this and anyone even seen this "Kunan The Loudmonth" 222.153.64.102 02:47, 25 November 2006 (CST)


 * Kunan appears only after you have finished the Extinction quest. Thunder 00:47, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Elite?
Another Paragon elite which is worthless. This can go in the trash heap along with It's just a flesh wound, Defensive Anthem and The power is yours. Who on earth is coming up with these skills are why are all the paragon elites so pants? A real shame Neon 12:14, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * It used to be very useful. 2 seconds makes all the difference. Now you actually have to think when you use it, whereas before it could be spammed whenever it recharged and would be useful damage prevention. Now it is only anti-spike. Anti-spike that can be accomplished forever with a bonder, but whatever. Certainly I think its use in PvE has gone. --Carth 17:55, 2 December 2006 (CST)
 * Bonds get removed, bonders get pressured. Shouts don't &mdash; Skuld 12:51, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Exualy ANY skill is for good use, we may not see the good use in it. But anyway, this is a good elite skill if u ask me.--InfestedHydralisk 13:38, 14 December 2006 (CST)
 * It is still better in almost all respects than Defensive Anthem:
 * If we have 15 leadership and 12 command, then incoming lasts 4 sec and defensive anthem lasts 10 sec. Incoming is up 4 sec out of 20 sec(20%) and Defensive anthem is up 10 sec out of 25 sec(also 40%).

- Incoming halves damage from all sources, DA only from attacks(big big big plus)

- Incoming can't be interrupted, no cast time

- Incoming is cheaper

- Incoming doesn't end on attack skill use(big plus, cos frenzying warriors trying to spike(thus using attack skills) often get spiked themselves)

- Defensive anthem also halves adrenaline gain, not just damage, this is defensive anthem's sole advantage.(and it is not nearly large enough. --Spura 04:11, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * But Incoming is from Command, which is a bit weak if you ask me, especially if you are looking for a good all-around build. DA is Leadership, which is much more commonly used. If you ask me though, they both pale compared to spamming Song of Restoration, but i guess that's a personal preference. ~Poke 13:58, 24 December 2006 (CST)

And now it's 3 seconds out of every 20 for 10 energy at 12+ Command. This is a joke. -- Gordon Ecker 18:04, 9 February 2007 (CST)


 * I think it's about time someone added the LAME tag to Incoming. Seriously... 3s, who the hell are Anet listening to? Who's feedback? This is just ridiculous. They may as well just remove it from the game completely. 132.203.83.38 00:28, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * If they reduced it to 5 energy and 10 second recharge it wouldn't be too LAME. Rest of the skills weren't hurt too badly except for Avatar of Grenth, which was certainly asked for.  I'm really not sure why they whacked Angelic Bond so hard, though . . .  --Son of Urza 00:36, 10 February 2007 (CST)

B4 Nerf
What was incoming like b4 nerf? It was just longer duration. Forget how long exactly, but you could keep it up indefinatley with 2 characters, thats why it got nerfed.
 * You still can keep it up indefinatly with two para's with serpents quickness and QZ, so it will last 3 seconds and have a recharge time of 7, so with two para's 6 seconds and 7 recharge. But it'll cost 13 energy everytime you use it. OR QZ of a ranger and be P/Rt with vocal which makes it 13 energy every 10 seconds, and it will last 4 seconds so with two para's it will be 8 seconds and 10 recharge. (Frizz 07:57, 3 March 2007 (CST))

It went up to 7 sec at 16 command and it costed 5 en. --Spura 08:41, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * yeah but this new nerf makes incoming a waste of a slot really.3 secs at 16 command whats the point.--&#91;&#91;Domon Kasho]] 12:29, 12 February 2007 (CST)

wow.......crazy nerf...3 seconds max =/ P A R A S I T I C 03:16, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Merge with keystone signet?? serisly it was usless and now its stupid :/--Blade (talk|contribs) 14:26, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * It was often skill chained by lots of Paras to keep it up indefinitely, so they nerfed it, making it a pointless elite. Paras are quickly becoming obsolete unless used in an almost-Para-only team. *sobs* &mdash; Hyperion` [[image:Hyperion_sig_icon.png]] (talk) 23:50, 11 February 2007 (CST)

Yeah, Paragons are definitely just getting nonstop nerfs lately. Maybe I'm crazy, but I never felt like they were all that overpowering, with the exception of permanent Incoming. Llava 01:26, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thank the PvP 8-Para teams (seriously, were they that numerous?). I suppose 4 with Incoming/healing and 4 with attack skills would make for a good holding build before the nerf, but now... --Xiu Kuro 17:55, 14 February 2007 (CST)

For 1...3 seconds ? why is this elite ? anerf ftl

This is not funny anymore, my VwS support para is all screwed up now. -- SigmA 12:28, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't paragons supposed to work by "sacrificing" a major damage / healing team member slot for a "team support" slot? Wasn't the entire point that the paragons wouldn't be major team damagers in exchange for giving team buffs? Except they put them in warrior armor, gave them spears, adrenaline, and made them "Ranged Warriors" without the decent "survival skills." And the worst part is that they nerf *everything* they can do becase "shouts aren't removable" and "they affect everyone" - justifying making them useless? Fine. Give necromancers some curses that "demoralize" - and removal the positive effect of shouts. Or give mesmers the ability to do it. Or both. Just let the damn things be USEFUL beyond stacking a team full of them! I mean, Dervishes have some of the most powerful skills in the game. Did they take all the awesomeness from paragons and give it to the dervs? -Phydeaux 13:38, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not really sure why the P's have to be nerfed into oblivion. Run around with shout/chant skills in the Desolation/Realm of Torment and you'll quickly find you rarely get a chance to use them (wells, hexes), and that is the dumb PvE mob AI doing it to you.  If Paragon vocal skills are so heavily used in PvP (I'm going by nerfs and other's words here), why don't the PvP players bring anti-vocal skills to shut them down?  Would you bring a PvP spike team and not bring any enchant removal?  I am really not understanding why an entire class is quickly on it's way to being useless in the entire game because people that play PvP are not smart enough to bring anti-vocal skills.  If that is now the way of deciding which skills need nerfed, they should also nerf Healing Signet to only heal 1-30 HP (but without loss of armor), as dumb PvP people don't know how to use it correctly.  Queen Schmuck 20:26, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Taking enchant removal is completely different because you know your team is spike and so you know you'll need enchant removal. Even NR/tranq teams will have a copy of prot spirit.  You can't know if the enemy will even have shouts.  And of the anti-shout skills, you have a spirit and a well, which means they're essentially useless; ulcerous, which will end up being countered by either hex or condition removal; and vocal, which is only useful against shouts.  In any case, you can't just put a hex or two in a build and expect it to stick.  --Fyren 22:24, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * An thus we come to the key sticking point: You cannot design a build that works against every possible combination. Instead of adapting to combat the "Flavor of the Month" type builds by using the skills ANet provided with the introduction of paragons (imagine that!), people simply complained until teams stopped running them since they were no longer effective.  Since that sort of response also led to the desecration of my beloved Soul Reaping, I'm not really inclined to be charitable to the complainers. -Gildan Bladeborn 03:18, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Glidan, sounds like you believe what I used to: this is both a PvE and PvP game. Sadly this is wrong, as Anet long ago decided that this is a PvP orienated game, and PvP rules (and overrules) all changes to it.  This is not good for 70+% of the Guild Wars population, but it is the way it is.  Queen Schmuck 17:51, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Well Gildan and queen schmuck are both kind of right. Anet doesn't pay attention to pve and pvp 50/50 but it doesn't pay attention to pvp 100% of the time. From a numerical sense, I would say 70% of their thought is according to what pvp demands and 30% goes to pve. I mean, they DO pay attention to the half of people that play gw that play pve only. That's half of their income. I mean ANet's priority isn't to create the most perfect game, but it is to make money. Sounds cynical but its true, a perfect game that is perfect in everyway (at least pvp wise) that doesn't sell won't work with NCSoft. That soul reaping nerf was quite the doozy, but they made Hard Mode, not just to show they care about pve only people but to actually improve the game for them. 67.162.10.70 21:59, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * And that is why I quit playing GW. ANet showed that they are incapable of creating a challenge in PvE with mob AI (just jack their levels/HPs/speed/etc. up).  Since they already have proven that they can not balance the game with the 5-10x a month balances (unstable skills), and had already shown little interest for PvE playability (some mobs now worthless (say, any Paragon foes)), I felt there was no long a reason to play.  It's really sad, too, as this game could be great if ANet would re-engineer how PvP worked (plus some other minor things).
 * I'm not crying about it, I just racked is up as a wasted time/money thing. I'm also not saying others should quit (note via contribs I am still helping others here), because everyone has a thing called freethought, and should use it.  I did effectively "cancel" my Guild Wars Wiki account though.  Queen Schmuck 01:28, 2 May 2007 (CDT)

I was thinking
"For 1..7..8 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage, for each ally, this shout ends if that ally attacks or uses a skill." That would allow it to fufill its purpose as a spike prevention without being used as all purpose defense, or so Zulu thinks. Zulu Inuoe 15:14, 17 August 2007 (CDT)


 * The best would be, 50% less damage, but you deal 50% less also. Prevents chaining as you have no damage output. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C/RFA) 15:16, 17 August 2007 (CDT)


 * That would be a waste of an elite, and no one would use it. They need to: "For 1...6...8 seconds, all party members within earshot take 2...24...30% less damage." That would be best. --Lann 11:32, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

Mabye Something Like This
--Lann 12:14, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

They will just chain this again Silver Sunlight 13:38, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * So? It's pretty much WY on the damage reduction except that it affects armor-ignoring as well --Gimmethegepgun 13:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * But that would make it worthy of elite status! --Macros 13:55, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think the best solution so far is that it disables other incomings, but I guess this could work as well Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 13:57, 18 August 2007 (CDT)


 * The point is to make it less powerful so they can still chain it together, with less effect, while still allowing it to be useful. 3 seconds of half dmg isn't real good, at least in my opinion. Giving the dmg reduction a progression will help with that, and Paragon Primarys can get up to an additional 3 seconds with runes. I would rather have a decent duration of damage reduction instead of half damage for 3 seconds. Might as well have everyone bring Dark Escape then. --Lann 18:32, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

Why not this way
"Incoming!" For 1...3...6 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage. This skill is disabled for every party member for 25 seconds. 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah that sounds ok - Buzzer 07:23, 12 September 2007 (CDT)
 * It doesn't sound good. No in game skill has that effect, so most likely will not be added. Its not reasonable. Thats like saying Flare's damage sucks so why don't they make it do double damage and disable from every party member flare for 5 seconds. Its not reasonable. --Lann 14:56, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * So your only reasoning against the idea is "no in game skill has that effect"? The reason this skill was nerfed was because of chaining; exactly what this suggestion fixes. - Buzzer 04:43, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

improve by...
doing to this what they did to rampage as one. Put it to 1..4..6 seconds and 10..50% damage reduction, and make it 25 energy. Prehaps make it a faster activating skill to would be nice. Another good way to prevent chans is "and all effected party members lose 1 energy for every second that ally is attacking", a bit like storm djinns haste. Even make a bit like danthem...&mdash; ~ Soqed Hozi ~  12:17, 17 September 2007 (CDT) Or they could make it an adrenaline skill with 10 strikes required,although with fgj it would still only be 5,seriously though,this skill is in desprate need of a buff,"There's Nothing To Fear!" is still much better than this skill even with its nerf,and it's not even elite.
 * I agree with the guy above ^^ making it cost adrenaline would make it harder to time to prevent spikes and easier to use. --Lann 14:56, 25 September 2007 (CDT) I don't get what Soqued Hozi said however. "Perhaps make it a faster activating skill"? ... its a shout. It activates instantly. --Lann 14:56, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * They should make this 20% damage reduction 1...4 seconds, make it non-elite, 15 energy, 25 sec recharge. Then in taking away its elite status, give "Stand Your Ground" Elite status and give "syg" + cannot be knocked down while not moving...OblivionDanny 22:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Chaining
I really cant see why a skill needs to be nerfed so much as to make it non-chainable. Several people have suggested that it shouldnt be elite anymore but then paras would be 1 elite short.

Best suggestions i have seen so far:

scaled dmg reduction like 1-20 or 1-25%(1.5% per rank) 1-8duration 20second recharge 10-25e or more likely 15-20e because you are getting energy back from leadership same as "thers nothing to fear". If they wanted it used in only a command shout build then 20e so most they can get back is 8e at rank16leadership.

seriously all this skill does is reduce dmg across the team, which having it set at 50% is what makes it a high target for chaining. In pvp your probably better off having a good monk that can catch a spike with protection skills. If your whole team needs protecting 100% of the time it says your monk has arthur in their hands or your whole party is standing on top of each other in a firestorm.

If you want an non-elite team cover skill use aegis/WY --JRyan 04:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I know how to make this usefull
It's great at making funny screenshots, any other use ehhhh 3 seconds of wanna-be uberness? Lost-Blue 03:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How about "All your other skills are disabled for 10..7..5 seconds. For 1..3..5 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage. This skill ends if you move." Keep it at 10 energy, give it a 10 second recharge, and call it a day. Also, costing 10 energy is no problem. Remember the Paragon primary attribute that gives back energy for every ally affected by a Shout? Also, if you're using this skill while you're fleeing from an enemy, you're just taking 100% of damage, in reality. Don't you take double damage when running away from a foe? So by keeping this skill stationary, it's a good "Brace Yourselves!" elite.--MagickElf666 18:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, all their attacks automatically critical. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 5e 10r All allies within earhsot become empowered by "Incoming!". The next skill to affect them deals 25...75% less damage. There now that's better lol. Lost-Blue 19:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * My way is always best--Cobalt | Talk  19:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah. Lost-Blue 19:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh Incoming, I hail ye as the lamest skil.. ever. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 21:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * On the plus side, it's vaguely amusing to watch eight paragons shout "Incoming!" before being insta-killed by a trebuchet projectile--Cobalt | Talk</B>  11:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Anet
I'm glad to have it back <3

What the...
Er...anyone else amused by the Contents box? 2/3 of the way down the page....handy... -->Suicidal Tendencie 11:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Elite version of Fallback? LoLWut?
(11, Dec.'08)...From the Dev Log: "We've changed this skill to act as an Elite version of "Fall Back!", a skill that's flexible and interesting"  ...*shakes head*...  It's the SAME FRIGGING STATS as "Fall Back!" now. Yeah, we get the constant PGoon Hate, Anet... but WTF is up with the boldfaced LYING about it??? --ilr
 * Well, you can attack while under this skill. Might be useful to keep Melee guys alive while they were chasing kiters. Still pretty lame, though, as well as having nothing to do with what the skill's original purpose was.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously it makes you faster so you can dodge whatever is Incoming! Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 04:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * this skill change is so very sad.
 * Please sign comments... It would make me feel better if they gave it some sort of scalable damage reduction... King Neoterikos 09:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fall Back (that doesn't end when you attack) is worthy of Elite status? Haha, NO, I call Shenanigans --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]
 * Eh, this is just Charge! 2... Zeraktalk 16:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Except "Charge!" is actually worth taking. I don't know what was so hard about balancing this skill... >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ehhhh, this skill is designed for gvg. Now you can chain it with Fall Back! for extra passive defense that Arenanet used to be gung ho about removing from the game, or use them both at once to give your team Inner Fire. Good one, Izzers. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * For a change, I actually agree with Entropy. What exactly was so difficult about balancing this Skill?? It already had split versions between PvE and PvP.  Then you look at a dubious power like Shadowform where they obviously decided that 50% and 25% were extremes while 33% was perfect for Perma Upkeep.  The whole situation just reeks of clumsy Design bumbling... I expect better. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]

This needs to either a) last longer, b) heal for more, c) increase IMS to 40-50%, or d) 2 of the above. I like d. 97.97.199.110 21:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it should definitely have SOMETHING over "Fall Back!" instead of just being in Command and not ending when they attack. That big of an IMS would be ridiculous to have. Just imagine Dash. Except it lasts 9 seconds, they're getting healing equivalent to 6 pips of regen while moving, and it affects everyone in an enormous radius. And then ofc it would also work retardedly well with the new MM godmode --Gimmethegepgun 21:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 6 Pips while moving is still inferior to 4 or 5 pips unconditionally... IE: My runner and farmer builds rely on "Never Surrender!" a lot more than they've ever relied on Fall Back for health regain and damage mitigation. And Health gain doesn't help me one bit in PvE where I relied on this Elite to negate 1-shottings by PvE Bosses.  All the Healing in the world doesn't help if your party is already dead after the next Packet. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](12, Dec.'08)
 * Does anyone else notice that this shout makes no sense now? Its name has nothing to do with its function. 63.207.151.93 17:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)