Talk:Monk headgear

Someone might want to see how Mesmer armor handles the masks, and format the monk articles accordingly. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 15:32, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Not sure that would work: since the mesmer masks are on the face, you only need one good image to show what it looks like, so their armor pages are noticeably simpler than what's probably achievable for the monk scalp designs. -Shattered Self 17:02, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Not sure what you thought I meant that you judged wouldn't work. The point is the splitting of functionality from art. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:22, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, thought you meant the nice little arrangements of images the mesmer section has. Yeah, functionality and art could be split, without much trouble. I'm not going to do it, I'm sick of looking at scalp designs now. -Shattered Self 20:44, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Feh, got bored at work and did it. Now this page just needs details on getting monk headgear from collectors in Cantha (if there are any that provide headgear). -Shattered Self  16:44, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks. Though to be consistent with the Style and formatting guidelines, acquisition info should be in the respective art articles and the crafting quick reference only. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:45, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Now you've moved beyond what I'm willing to do. I'm happy with the current layout; if you'd like to redesign it, go ahead. -Shattered Self 16:55, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Heh, I never moved anywhere d-: That's the way the Mesmer armor articles were laid out when I first mentioned it at the top of article.  It's fine if you don't want to do it, eventually someone will (-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 17:07, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

Merge
Why should we want to merge this article with attribute headgears, which is just about functionality, not art? &mdash; Stylva  02:13, 1 December 2006 (CST)


 * There was originally one article with all headgear information (functionality, art, and acquisition). The two articles were split on the suggestion that everything else about monk armor (and every other class' armor) had been split in that manner. That was done, which is why there are currently two articles. Then someone went and removed the links on the monk armor page to this page. The other page has pretty much all the functionality and art info, it just lacks the acquisition info, but it's linked to on the monk armor page and this one isn't, so... --Shattered Self 07:50, 1 December 2006 (CST)


 * I see.. I would prefer to also link this page on Monk armor instead of merging them together in one huge article. &mdash; Stylva  05:32, 2 December 2006 (CST)


 * Doesn't really matter to me, we just need to decide what information to put on each page. --Shattered Self 07:09, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * Definitely. My opinion is: Art and crafting information here, information about PvP function (like Wanderer's Armor or Judge's Armor) at Monk Attribute Headgears

Images We Still Need
Males Elite Luxon (from someone whose monk is bald or has hair only at the very back, please) Elite Sunspear Vabbian Norn Asuran Dwarven Ebon Vanguard

Females Ancient Primeval Labyrinthine Norn Asuran Dwarven Ebon Vanguard

We're making progress, only 5 armors left that we need screenshots of. I'll be taking care of the last 2 female ones in the near future, so we just need some nice person with a bald male monk to drop about 60k on head tats and we'll be set... --Shattered Self 20:51, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * Added images for female Ancient hat. --Shattered Self 22:15, 3 March 2007 (CST)
 * Added images for female Primeval hat. Accidently salvaged the damn thing before taking screenshots, so I had to buy another. >_< I am now very poor. Come on bald male monks, step up and bankrupt yourselves for the community; it's fun! --Shattered Self 10:05, 5 March 2007 (CST)

new labryinthine armor has new head tattoos as well...here is my image http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:Labryinthineheadtat.jpg#file please add to where ever it should be posted. Cosyfiep 20:18, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. Now we just need female Labyrinthine and Norn (plus whatever the other 3 GW:EN sets are), and male Elite Luxon (good images), Vabbian, and the GW:EN sets. --Shattered Self 20:30, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

here is my ebon male headgear and asuran...there is no space set up for it on the page...so I will let the powers that be handle it: and Cosyfiep 14:58, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Info
We still need Nightfall crafters, as well as Nightfall and Factions collectors (if there are any). --Shattered Self 20:03, 3 March 2007 (CST)
 * Check Monk collector armor and Armor collectors (Istan) -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  02:52, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * So, there are no collectors in Cantha who give monk headgear, and only two in Elona? --Shattered Self 19:04, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * Read the Factions tables again, I think you missed something. :P But yes, the only armor collectors in Nightfall are in Istan. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  04:34, 5 March 2007 (CST)
 * Ah, you're right. That's weird though, why would you want headgear that doesn't give an attribute bonus? --Shattered Self 05:10, 5 March 2007 (CST)
 * The same reason you would get any collector armor - cause it's cheap. No other collector armor piece has any stats apart from basic. :P -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  06:39, 5 March 2007 (CST)
 * In Prophecies you could +attribute headgear from collectors, and you can in Nightfall as well (though not max AL). I dunno, just seems kind of inconsistent on ANet's part. Oh well, I guess that's their problem. --Shattered Self 09:56, 5 March 2007 (CST)

OK, added all that stuff. I'd like to come back at some point and add an "Art Style" field to the Factions crafter table. --Shattered Self 04:25, 9 March 2007 (CST)


 * Your idea was so nice that I couldn't resist changing it myself :) I also corrected a little mistake I had done when I created the Factions table :)
 * &mdash; Helena  [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 15:17, 9 March 2007 (CST)


 * Awesome! I logged in, and I knew there was something on this page I wanted to work on, but I looked at the page and couldn't figure out what it was. So I looked in the history and here in the talk and realized you'd already taken care of it! --Shattered Self 20:57, 9 March 2007 (CST)


 * Hmmmm, a small problem with your update to the Factions table has occurred to me. For the Ascalon/Canthan/ShingJea armor, each of these is crafted by a different armorcrafter, so there's 3 different crafters at each location. Should we make a line a for each crafter, or just put various or something like that in the crafter column, or something else? --Shattered Self 00:45, 10 March 2007 (CST)


 * Uhm, good question. Now when you mention it, I remember my brain was bugged with the same problem when I created the table. Perhaps we should write them all... I'll try, I think.
 * &mdash; Helena  [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 05:38, 10 March 2007 (CST)


 * I tried now. Not sure I like it at all... But what to do... And those stupid spaces are freaking me out!
 * &mdash; Helena  [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 05:45, 10 March 2007 (CST)


 * Proposed solutions to the stupid spaces can be found below, in the Sandbox section. --Shattered Self 23:04, 10 March 2007 (CST)


 * Haha, I actually meant the spacing between all the crafting tables, but whatevs :)
 * &mdash; Helena  [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]] 02:41, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

+1 Energy Before/After Insignia
I don't recall exactly which update, but I believe at some point ANet retroactively added "+1 energy" to all non-Insignia headgear. We need to investigate how this may have affected the availability/stats of Believer's (bonus-less) and Ascetic's (+1 energy instead of +1 attribute) headgear in the Prophecies and Factions campaigns. --Shattered Self 20:49, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * In Prophecies every scalp design has +1 energy, except the Believer's, and Ascetic's and Believer's are the only ones without attribute bonus. In Factions Monk's only has basic stats, and the four others have energy +1 and an attribute bonus. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  22:58, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * So, post-update, attribute headgear provides +1 attribute and +1 energy, Ascetic's provides +1 energy only, and Believer's/Monk's provides no bonus? --Shattered Self 00:40, 10 March 2007 (CST)
 * Yep. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  01:04, 10 March 2007 (CST)

Art Style Links
I've been thinking. Currently, the crafting section Art Style links go to the page for that art style. The Prophecies art style pages don't show headgear (because it's all the same), and the Factions/Nightfall pages only have a small section for headgear images. If people came to this page to see how to craft the art style they want, why not just have the Art Style field link to the appropriate image farther down the page? --Shattered Self 21:51, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Voting
Vote for the version you prefer:

Current Version
 * 1) I think the new proposed versions are hard on the eyes; just my opinion.--&mdash;  xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 19:25, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) Your vote here...

Proposal One
 * 1) Your vote here...

Proposal Two
 * 1) This is the one I prefer. --Shattered Self 23:03, 10 March 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, I think it would be even better if we moved armor level to the left of location. --Shattered Self 01:46, 11 March 2007 (CST)
 * Which is why, along with a suggestion by Bexor, Proprosal Four now exists... --Shattered Self 21:00, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) -  B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]]  01:18, 11 March 2007 (CST)
 * 2) Your vote here...

Proposal Three
 * 1) Your vote here...

Proposal Four has been removed since it did not conform with GuildWiki-wide formatting standards
 * 1) An "improved version" of proposal two. --21:00, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) Your vote here...

Something Else Please add your proposal at the end of the Sandbox and create a voting field for it, or describe it here.
 * Can we get rid of the alternating colours between art styles? On Proposal 2, everything on Shing Jea row should be grey, ran musu white, and so forth. The alternating colours are distracting, but the layout is the best out of the lot. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  20:04, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Proposed Version 4 has been added. --Shattered Self 21:00, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * If you plan on moving the AR column to the far left, you would have to change every armor crafting table to match the same formatting. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  21:08, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I think adjusting every table on the page is quite reasonable; adjusting every table on GuildWiki should probably be discussed elsewhere. --Shattered Self 05:11, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * There are style and formatting guides here for a reason. If you want to go against the guidelines set out in those policies, then it either has to be redone everywhere or not at all. -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  05:51, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it looks better that way, but as I said this is not the place to discuss Wiki-wide changes. I'll adjust Proposal Two and eliminate Proposal Four. --Shattered Self 20:32, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Your suggestion here...

Note that 15k "ascended" armor data has been omitted from the samples below to conserve space.

Factions Campaign - Crafting ((Proposal One))
Give each crafter a true row in the table.

Factions Campaign - Crafting ((Proposal Two))
Give each crafter a true row in the table, and rearrange the columns some. (Note that this alteration would require us to go back and alter the other tables to match.)

Factions Campaign - Crafting ((Proposal Three))
Just put "various" in the crafter field in cases where there are multiple crafters in the same place making different art styles of armor.

Missing Info: Dragon Scalp Design (Cantha)
I've just created a monk in Cantha. The armorer, Nu Leng in Shing Jea Monastery, offers a Dragon Scalp Design which is not listed at all in the Canthan section. Nor is it listed anywhere else on the page (based on textual search). Since I haven't played with tables in the wiki I'm not willing to try altering things myself. -- Sabardeyn 00:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Error in table?
Voldo the Exotic seems to want 25 Parchment, 4 Feather for Dragon Scalp Design (and 800g), rather than 4 Vials of Ink and 5 Parchment. I tried to update the table but now it look sa little funny. 71.146.90.218 00:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, Oroku wants the 25p/4f. Also, none of the kaineng ones have non-attr headgear.  Table looks okay this time! 71.146.80.193 17:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Pathetic
, this article is... I'm working on filling in all the missing images, but may need some help with the page. RoseOfKali 20:04, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I shot all the female images, sadly on the same day I wrote the above, but just now finally getting around to cropping and uploading them. <_< Will also do the missing male ones afterward. Not sure where to even begin with the tables, though, they're a wreck. :/ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, *all* the headgear articles could use some work. To begin with, all the core professions (I think, maybe not all) seem to have a "X headgear" article AND a "X Prophecies (Masks/Scars/etc.)" article, and those should probably be merged.  But it's not something I feel like bothering with right now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:58, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure about that. The thing is, all the other headgear types belong to an armor set, and thus have a full set of images on the pages of those armor sets. Prophecies headgear, especially for casters, and partially so for warriors and rangers, applies to multiple armor sets, or rather none at all, it's "universal" of sorts, so where would the full front/back/profile/alt-profile pictures go? Either put them on each of the armor pages that are crafted by the same crafter as the "universal" headgear, or leave as is now on a page of its own. This page is a gallery of front images only, so I disagree with merging them here. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 10:02, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Other than the dyed images, all the crafting/collector info is already duplicated on both pages.
 * Elementalist eyes don't need side or dyed images, thus there's nothing on Elementalist Prophecies Headgear or Elementalist Factions Headgear that isn't on Elementalist headgear (except the inventory icons, but we don't have those for any other armor).
 * For mesmer, just merge the dyed images from Mesmer Prophecies Masks over to Mesmer headgear.
 * The sub-galleries for Monk Prophecies Headgear never got created at all, may as well delete it in favor of Monk headgear.
 * Necros only have 1 Necromancer Prophecies Headgear art anyway, so same as mesmer, move the dyed images over to Necromancer headgear.
 * Ranger, again - just merge the dyed images from Ranger Prophecies Headgear to Ranger headgear.
 * Warrior doesn't have a Prophecies headgear page. I think all the "common" helms in Prophecies got merged into the Ascalon/Krytan/Tyrian sets in Factions.
 * &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 13:13, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * With Elementalist, it's ok because there are no dyed images to worry about anyway, so like you said, it's all duplicated. As far as the inventory icons, I just moved them to the main image gallery, so they're a non-issue, and the reason I'd like to keep them at all is because of the factions auras, which appear like a stone rather than what they actually look like on your head. Guess I should make one for the Vabbian Eyes for completion. :P
 * There are no "generic" prophecies Warrior helms, they all have a name matching one of their armor sets, so they didn't have this issue.
 * For Monks it's equally easy, the headgear is called Dragon Scalp Design, so stick it all with Dragon Armor and call it a day, no need to stuff 10 more images into this page (3 views, 2 genders, dyed+gray).
 * Necro headgear has unique non-armor set names, but it's a non-issue to put it all here, because there are only 2 more images (dyed M/F) that aren't already on the main Necro headgear page.
 * With Ranger and Mesmer, I'm not so sure. The good thing is they all have only 1 view. The bad is that we get 10 more dyed images in each gallery, and there are no dyed images for any other artwork. The way to arrange that currently would be to entirely duplicate the template for the whole row, once for gray and once for dyed. I don't think that would look good, and it might cause some head scratching "owait, why are there two of these here?" What would be very helpful is adding support for an optional second row to the Template:Common_gallery_index so that the dyed images appear immediately below the gray, without having to duplicate the header rows. Plus, if that's added, we could use it for all the other headgear types, both for consistency between prophecies and other sets, and to show the dye patterns all in one gallery view. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 14:58, March 18, 2010 (UTC)