User talk:Tenetke15051

Image:Gwwintersday.png
That's perfect! Welcome to GuildWiki by the way. :D 23:12, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much. I appreciate it, hopefully I can make more meaningful contributions. Tenetke 02:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Image scaling
Did you know that the Wiki can scale images for you? For example, ->, by doing  (the |25px part). (T/C) 08:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday Userbox!
To commemorate the effort you've put into preparing GuildWiki for our Wintersday celebration, I have created a special userbox at Template:User Wintersday:

Wear it with pride! <3 09:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Mind if I...
Give a quick fix to your userpage? The top and side bar are borked. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  16:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * There ya go. Also fixed the background in the meanwhile ^^" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I appreciate it. Still learning wiki code. It is not what I expected.[[Image:Charm_Animal.jpg|20px|User:Tenetke|Tenetke Mekko]]Tenetke 19:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Pre-med userbox
I didn't make a template since there's no category and I'm not sure how many people could use it, so just copy+paste the following code:

20:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Sig image
cf. GW:SIGN - you can't use the Charm Animal icon directly as your sig image. You can re-upload it to a different name (Image:Tenetke sig.jpg, for example) and use it that way, though. Also, max size for a sig image is 50x19px (since it's square, you'll want to set the image size as x19px in your sig). &mdash;Dr Ishmael 20:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks I will fix it now. Tenetke 21:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

semicolon
it is really hard to get used to not putting ; at the end of every line &mdash; code much, do you? ;-) --◄mendel► 22:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * NOOOOOOOO!! NOT ANOTHER SEMICOLON! Why do you mock me so? /ragequit........ /rejoin........ AUGH! /emo --Gimmethegepgun 22:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I like coding, did quite a bit of my own stuff in Linux. My first I was writing all the comments with // . Didn't work out so well, I still have to go back and check everything earlier I had a page with ; after all the wikicode. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You're a natural for writing CSS then. :-) --◄mendel► 23:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Haven't had too much time for doing any coding lately though. I am going over a summary now of the Integumentary system and it's relation to the Sympathetic nervous system. I get the relationship, that is the easy part, but I got really interested in the hair erector muscle and how it is used. Doesn't really help much but in some cases of heavy metal poisoning the hairs on a person stand up. This does correspond to the fact that the heavy metal toxicity would reach on both the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems. Just wondering what all triggers the basic response in the hair erector muscle. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hairs have muscles? That's just.. wow. So if you watch a movie that gives you goosebumps, you're actually having a workout? Couch potatoes all around the world will love to hear that.
 * I don't shave much, so I don't know if this already exists, but if you could find a substance that triggers this response it could be marketed as a pre-shave lotion and make you lots of money. (Though I doubt that you can sell toxic heavy metals for that purpose nowadays.) --◄mendel► 01:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah excellent marketing campaign. Use this, it is guaranteed to leave a lasting impression. It is similar to a tiny muscle that allows the hair to "stand up". It also causes what people think of as goose bumps. That is called cutis anserina and it basically occurs when for whatever reason the erector muscle (arrectores pilorum, think that is the right spelling) contracts. This is usually caused by the sympathetic nervous system. Think porcupines. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 01:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Discussion on Hair Muscle
I know all that. Did you know that black widow spider bites also cause piloerection? Musculus arrector pili, says my medical dictionary, but of course what you give is the Latin plural of that. "cutis anserina" means "goose skin" and it is actually called that in German (my native tongue). Cold triggers this because in furry animals, raising the hairs "thickens" the insulating layer of fur, thus keeping them warm, but of course *you* know that. Hmm, that may be why pre-shave lotion is alcoholic or similar: the evaporation cools the skin and raises the hairs? --◄mendel► 01:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Could be, no idea why it works. I suppose you could use an isotope to cause a slight charge. I have noticed that based on where you are the erector muscle has different names. In the south outside of anatomy it is just called the erector muscle, but in other places it is taught as different names. Makes you wonder how "standardized" modern medicine is huh? I didn't know that about the black widow, now that is really cool. I have dealt with Black Widow bites being from the south united states, but never even knew that as an indicator. Thank you for telling me. Even though we don't need to trap heat the same way anymore it can still function to provide basic tests of the sympathetic nervous system. Aside from that it can help diagnose where nerve function has been interrupted. Do you study medicine or are you interested in it? [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 02:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a layman's interest. My SO has studied biology, and I have a professional medical dictionary and google. :-P Diagnose where nerve function has been interrupted: you'd make the patient get goosebumps and see what areas of skin aren't affected? --◄mendel► 03:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, there is nothing wrong with having an interest. It is much better to learn on your own than take a Doctor's word for it. As much as I wish, Doctors are not infallible. Exactly, if you can get a patient cold and yet there is no skin response then you know right off there is a problem with a very limited set of systems. Also in the case of PNS problems it can help to find exactly what areas are affected. There is one disease that comes to mind that can cause nerve dysfunction in the upper limb but not in the lower. Those disease are very limited in nature so if you can find those it saves a ton of time from doing conduction tests. Man it is so cool to find someone on here to talk medicine with. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 03:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Glad to oblige. You need to be more specific though, so I can look stuff up. You're doing a fine job explaining medicine in layman's terms, but it doesn't make google or dictionary searches any easier. ;P --◄mendel► 03:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No need to worry about further indents. This should be fine. Take Monomelic amyotrophy. It is fairly rare and almost never seen in America. It can cause problems with the sympathetic nervous system. One of the ranges it affects is from the elbow to the torso, while interestingly enough not affecting the lower arm. There is no real known cause and no cure for it. It is a non progressive disease.  http://www.jcnmd.com/pt/re/jclnnmd/abstract.00000132-200109000-00007.htm;jsessionid=J12MqQpT2hfWT2ZmLy7bptBhHwF3BHTBybPV08QDnny5hrHWnkVd!-32953442!181195629!8091!-1?nav=reference

that is a pretty good link to a small study of the SNS to the Monomelic Amyotrophy. What I find so interesting is the mean SSR of upper atrophied compared to the unatrophied. Meaning that while the symptoms may not appear it is in fact causing a latency. Heavy metals can cause responses ranging from burning in the extremities, to a generalized CNS depression. You probably already know but as an extension of the CNS, the SNS is affected by the same process. Another case where the involvement of the SNS can play a key is Botulism. Tenetke Mekko 06:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Sidenote: I've been too busy to continue this discussion, what with several rehearsals and other pre-xmas stuff coming up (including an advent maths competition with a problem for each day until christmas), but it won't be lost. I've been working on more wintersday decorations, and it'd be really helpful if Image:Ice_crystals-bright.jpg was replaced with something that actually tiles (hint, hint). --◄mendel► 01:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I completely understand. I have been working with someone with Adiposis Dolorosa. There aren't many treatements available, and the most commonly used are immunosuppresents. Right now we are just working with an application of lidocaine to try and ease the pain around certain lipomas. The problem is that some of the lipomas have been complicated with cysts creating even more pressure. As to your art, I think it should tile with the changes I made to it. If this isn't what you meant please let me know.



That is 4 separate images. To give you an idea of what it would look like tiled. They are also resized, but this may not even be what you were talking about. There is something else that looks cool. I decided to see what it would look like inverted. . Let me know what you think. I also made another version that should tile well also. Again this is all based on yours, and I am just throwing them out there to get your opinion.



Tenetke Mekko 08:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Simple, but it works - wish I'd thought of that! I think the white rectangle is even more distracting than the blue bits; so it's either brush-lighten/desaturate the blue bits or crop them out, the image is big enough anyway. We'll see who gets to it first. ;-)
 * As to the Lipomatosis dolorosa, I can see how that lines up with your interest in the SNS as it affects the nerves below the skin. A case report states that the symptoms were aggravated in winter and at emotional stress - which reminds me of fibromyalgia (mainly because someone I know has that), and if it's partially psychosomatic, winter makes sense because the loss of light in winter makes people more prone to be depressive. But I think that ought to just affect how the brain copes with the "wrong" signal inputs it is getting, right? --◄mendel► 09:53, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Jio was fastest with the ice. --◄mendel► 22:08, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry I wasn't on a bit earlier, I wish I had more time to work on that. Just been working normally and studying. I am sure you know how that goes though. The aggravation of winter and the emotional stress are a direct link to the SNS. It is really cool you picked up on that. You would be surprised how many Doctor's have no clue about the link between the two. I am sorry to hear that someone you know suffers from Fibromyalgia. The two diseases share some symptoms but it is the main mechanism for pain that differentiates the two so much. With Fibromyalgia you have two different "camps". One believes that it is an actual disease, and should be treated as such. I agree with that. Just because something lacks imaging studies does not mean it is not an actual disease. The second group believes that without direct imaging tests that Fibromyalgia should not be classified as a disease. Keep in mind most of these doctors are the ones that just a short time ago through Prions did not really exist. It is kind of absurd to think that though when there is a mountain of evidence showing the existence of Fibromyalgia. With Dercum's Disease it is different. Fortunately there is enough evidence and imaging to show the disease in action. The problem with the disease is that it is really not talked about. There could be a million people with it, and most would be misdiagnosed. Of course considering that very few people ever develop lipomas, and only a fraction of those end up with Dercum's Disease I can sort of understand it not being talked about. The AMA sort of works on a basis of "Treat with what is the most common, that way you will save more people". The problem with that is if you are one of the unlucky ones that does not have what is most common. Back to the link between Fibromyalgia and Dercum's I do NOT think it is a coincidence that they share so many common symptoms. In fact I would not be surprised in the next 10 years if we do not see an entirely new classification dealing with these diseases. They are very horrible diseases. Imagine not being able to wear underwear because the pain is so intense. Yet there is no known cause or cure. It can be aggravating when so many diseases take the stage with commercials and benefits and these diseases creep along unknown except by a few that take interest in them. Sorry, I know that above is a rant. It just gets so annoying watching people suffer and knowing that the best you can do is try to make their life tolerable. Not happy, not good, not even satisfactory just tolerable. I don't know if I have told you but I am really enjoying our conversation. There are generally only two types of people I can talk to about medicine. Patients that are suffering and want to know it will get better, and Doctors that well don't really want to hear anything except "You are right". The first type is understandable, the second type is just annoying. Sorry I wrote so much. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, and it is kind of hard to find co-students to have the time and interest (and dedication?) to discuss medicine after the time they spend getting through their obligatory studies - at least that was my experience in computer science. You explain things well and I have a feeling I am learning interesting stuff, and that's fun. :)
 * I don't really have a clue how emotional stress is linked to the SNS; has this effect been measured? I think there are quite a few diseases that aren't talked about much; sleep apnea is another one that I'm sure has a lot of un- or misdiagnosed cases because the daytime symptoms don't point to it in any way.
 * I also don't really know anything about pain: there are stimuli that are transmitted by the nerves that somehow cause a pain sensation where we think, but there is also stuff that goes on locally, I think. (You can probably tell that tonight is not a "looking things up" night for me.)
 * The copy you made of my monobook.css still has two bugs in it (which I have since corrected) that prevent the ice from showing up in the sidebar and standing still in the table, so you might want to update that. Your logo really fits the theme well! --◄mendel► 00:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Peppermint favor


Could you do me a favor, please, and upload just the peppermint shield on a transparent background? I want to use it for my version of the wintery userbox (see here). Regards, ◄mendel► 05:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Here you go, a pretty raw image of it.
 * Thank you, much obliged. It is on the "icy" version of the userbox; see Template:User Wintersday for further details. --◄mendel► 07:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Magic:the Gathering cards
We all use this app to make ours. It's quite a bit better than manually editing. Give it a shot. 05:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mine may suck, but I just couldn't get used to using a program to do it for me. There is something so fun about matching pixels up just right. No idea what it is, but still. Thank you for the link though, I am reading about it right now. Seeing as I only have a few of the newer templates it will help me on that. I have always wondered if I could actually make a MTG game out of the skills from GW. I mean there are basic like res signet cost 1 to play sac to bring a creature from your graveyard into play. Stuff like that. Anyway thank you again. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 06:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you seen the sealedplay cards on ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/ ? More links are on the Sealed Play article. --◄mendel► 10:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have seen some but had no idea the link. Thank you very much, it will help making them easier. I was thinking about how to apply MTG rules to the cards. Any ideas on that ? [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 11:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I added Category:User MTG to your cards, have a look at that too if you haven't already. ;-) --◄mendel► 11:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the High-resolution skill icons are basically just the pictures from the sealed play deck. ;-)
 * Thank you, yeah I see that now. They look really nice. As strange as it sounds I was trying to figure out a way to make a conversion fo types between MTG and GuildWars. If you decided to divide tings up not between mana but faction you could. Kurzick green, Luxon blue, Sunspear white, Vabbian red, Undead/Abbadon black. Have cards like "Plains of Jarin", but instead of adding mana it would add a type of faction. Just stuff like that. Anyway, thank you again [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

userbox images
Hi Tenetke, I totally love the 'canadian' userbox you made, and I was just wondering if you could point me in the direction of a good place to find appropriate images for them. Everytime I find one it looks ridiculous, wrong size... etc. I don't know if there is something specific to look for in the images but if you could give me some pointers I would really appreciate it. Thanks Em Jae 14:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Transparent images.
They may look nice to some people (I don't know what my own opinion is yet) but we really should discuss this more before you keep going. Having two pictures per page of the same thing is bad (yeah, that's mendel's fault, not yours, but...) and so is randomly replacing the images with a new style with no consensus. In short: Please stop uploading until we figure out what we want to do. Entrea   [Talk]  23:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, nevermind, it's not your problem at all. I'll take it up with mendel.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The issue has also been discussed a bit on my talkpage. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the problem, I have already taken them down. I will go ahead and add delete tags to the pictures, I don't mind hosting them somewhere else.[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, no, don't delete them. The problem was that mendel recently re-added them to the pages for some bizarre reason. I saw your name connected to the pictures, and posted here before I went and checked times and such. In any case, it's not your fault, and the pictures can stay.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is cool. I went ahead and got rid of the abyssal I will go ahead and remove the hunger. I uploaded them somewhere else and if anyone wants a version they are more than happy to have it. Sorry about all the confusion and such on the pictures. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, if you really want to delete something, you should add Template:Delete onto the page via normal editing. For the record, though, I think keeping them as a gallery of some sort is a good idea, and you shouldn't be so hasty to try and delete things based on a little misunderstanding.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I had just found that right before reading this. It isn't like I was getting rid of them out of anger or anything. I just figured they would end up using space and not being used. I intended to take down all the extra wintersday stuff I have on my user page after christmas. I don't really think about the wiki as myspace or anything, so I am trying to be considerate. Anyway no worries, it is not a thing like "argh I am mad now I am taking my ball and going home!" More like, oh we already have a better ball, let's play with that one and I will put this one up to keep the area clean. I hope that explains it better.[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 23:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The images don't really go away. They just become invisible to normal users. They take up just as much space as if they hadn't been deleted, they just become useless. --◄mendel► 23:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) See Category:Transparent renders. --◄mendel► 23:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ah I didn't know that at all. In that case nothing wrong with leaving them. I am really sorry I caused so much trouble here. I also like your gallery that looks great. Can we link the ones you have done also. I think it would be nice if we could eventually separate them into campaigns and such.
 * You haven't caused any trouble. My hero pictures are not transparent (yet?), and I ought to get off my lazy ass and do all of them. --◄mendel► 00:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well if that was a subtle hint, then yes I would love the chance to do them. It is up to you though, and I don't want to step on anymore toes. People seemed to get a little pissed before.[[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 00:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Your standards for harmony are very high. :-) &mdash; To put a picture in that gallery, just put  on the picture's page (can be done in the upload summary for original uploads) and after a short time it will automatically appear there. &mdash; I plan/procrastinate doing all heroes in the big size, which is standardized so that the sizes are relatively correct. I can tell you sometime how to do that yourself if you want to. --◄mendel► 00:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Done, and it showed up on the group good. Take a look and tell me what you think. There are some slight errors with the hair, tried to fix them. Yes, I would like to know how if you don't mind explaining to me. It seemed to me, about the other images, that it caused a fair bit of trouble. I don't really like that. I didn't like that it ended up on you either, that wasn't my intention. Overall I wish I hadn't posted them. Still I like the gallery, it looks nice. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 01:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Medical Explanation of Skills
Just passing through and though I'd let you know I found the medical explanation of skills very interestng :P. Can't wait to see future explanations :).  ∞ ∞ Ipo™ ∞ ∞  18:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see you tackle a Shadow Step, or better yet, Rebirth.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * More physics than biology, maybe Illusion of Haste,Insidious Parasite,Spiteful Spirit,Endure Pain,Defy Pain? ∞ ∞ Ipo™ ∞ ∞  22:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Aneurysm would be interesting. Forced aneurysms! [[Image:ParAmSIG.jpg]](T/C) 12:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

GW-Tux
Funny idea! I made a regular template from it: Template:User Linux GW. --◄mendel► 16:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

How to do templates
I'm glad you enjoy the userbox. Templates without parameters are easy, you can use just any page for that. If you want to dig deeper, have a look at the resources listed on Forum:Coding, or check out Help:Templates. --◄mendel► 23:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


 * thank you, I will read both, I appreciate it. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 00:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

?
If you would like your userpage to be deleted, that can be arranged; in the future you may want to use a   tag.

Also, I am sorry if I am one such of the persons whom have caused this change in you... regardless, I am sorry that you feel that way, and if there is anything I can do to help you feel more at ease here, I would be happy to do so. Just let me know. (T/C) 08:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Somewhat late, but "person who," not "persons whom." :D [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 13:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Stalking
Have you been stalked by a GuildWiki editor or reader? That is in no way acceptable. Please contact me privately (wikimail or irc) and confidentially if that has been the case. --◄mendel► 08:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

hi
you're terrible at understanding game balance; i would recommend not commenting on it at all to save everyone else the time and agony it takes responding to poorly formulated and inadequately supported arguments. have a nice day :) - Auron 10:24, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If we had a |"Don't be a dick" policy, I'd ban you right now. -- ◄mendel► 12:37, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You should look into a "don't be stupid" policy first, those are leagues better in the long run. - Auron 13:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's a tip: Don't argue with elitists, they always think they are right, and you are wasting your time. King Neoterikos 23:59, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep noticed that, I would rather not spend my time arguing at all to be honest. [[Image:Debian_elitism.png|frame]] &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenetke (contribs).

Regarding "Game balance"
Hey Tenetke, I hope you won't be discouraged by various detractors' comments. What they fail to understand is that there is no single concept of a "balanced" game. In some mmos that I've played, a warrior- or assassin- class character can easily one- or two-shot a healer-class of comparable level. That doesn't mean those games are unbalanced, it just means it's a different type of pvp environment than Guild Wars. In Guild Wars, though, a single monk is generally regarded as sufficient to keep himself and three other players alive against moderate pressure and small spikes. When a single offensive character- say a Palm Strike assassin- can kill a monk in a matter of seconds without giving an opening to retaliate, the Guild Wars community cries foul because they are used to monks being able to protect themselves and their parties against a single foe with extreme ease. This doesn't mean their views are more valid than those who support single powerful attackers, it just means they have different concepts of balance. So please do feel free to express your opinions, even if you catch some flak for it, because they're just as valuable as anyone else's. 16:09, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

This makes me very sad. I really hope you don't mean it. &mdash; Powersurge360  05:34, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Adiposis dolorosa
"According to the latest research, Dercum's disease is an auto-immune disease such as rheumatism, and not a metabolic disturbance, as was believed earlier."

It seems like an interesting (and very painful/disturbing) disease, and an intriguing field of study precisely because diseases such as this are poorly researched. It's your shot to achieving immortal fame in the medical community. :) I'm one of those passed-AP-biology-on-natural-talent-rather-than-effort people, so I am poorly equipped to comment on it, but I think it is a good sign if you can capture my interest enough that I bother to go look it up. (T/C)


 * I am glad I got some interest. Even if just one person out there looks it up that is one more that knows about the disease. Most doctors are very reluctant to tell someone they have lipomas. In most cases they will dismiss the symptom even if it has the accompanying symptoms of the disease. It isn't out of direct neglect, it is simply that lipomas and their related diseases are almost never talked about in medical classes. I have only seen 1 case of it, with another that might be FML while getting ready for medschool. I was doing research on this when I read that almost all cases occur in women who are past certain points in their life where typically estrogen levels decrease. I don't think that estrogen is the only part in this, but it is part of a paper I am writing. I was looking into estrogen mediated autoimmune responses also. If you are interested a very nice doctor to look into is Karen L. Herbst. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 06:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)