User talk:Entropy/Archive 25

Header
Yay! first :Preanor 18:03, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol second!--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá† ħŕášħ 00:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

e. Lord Belar 01:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This page has received so little spam its almost scary. -- Shadow crest   01:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fifth? Cress Arvein(Talk) 01:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll fix that!

Lord Belar 02:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The signature goes in the pyramid, not at the end :/ Cress Arvein(Talk) 02:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's no spam pyramid, just a spam arrow. You disappoint me, Belar! I shall now proceed to signify my disgust by referring to you without your "Lord" title. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  02:24, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Most people do. :P Lord Belar 02:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably because you don't get no. (respect.) --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  02:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

IGN
Hey entropy whats your IGN so I can give you the sephis sword, mine is Fear Drake (No surprise here) -- 02:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a link to it on her userpage, but her ranger is Elena Gracewood. -- Shadow crest   02:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It only told me her guild info, but ty. [[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 02:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * O.o stupid me, I already have her as Lana Irving! [[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 02:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I, uh, have IGN's scattered all throughout my Userpage...you could click on any of my Character images or just see their names >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you get the sephis sword yet? If not I got one that is require 9. --Hell bringer [[Image:Hellbringer sig.jpg|19px]] (T/C) 01:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That would make three that I've been offered...I got a req9 inscribable which works fine, but if you don't want it I will gladly accept Christmas presents. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Im trying to give you mine, but you never log on. Mine is req 10 15^50. --[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 22:04, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the first time since Friday before Christmas that I have been able to access a computer, let alone get on GW. I know it is taking a long time, but please bear with me. In my defense, when I am on GW, most of you folks who have stuff aren't on. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

"Black Widow Run"
I'm not exactly sure how to do one, but i can try if you like. I UW Solo/Duo/Hero quite a lot, so I do get the basics. As i said, I can try if you want. Though not now, since I'm tired and ive been up since 6am.. -- Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 22:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I could do it but the black widow run I used to do is out of date. Seeing as the fact that I used trappers to get to the Reaper. --Hell bringer [[Image:Hellbringer sig.jpg|19px]] (T/C/Sigs) 22:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about the nerf to the Spirits in the Trapper build, then a duo Trapper build doesn't even need those. Current team is a Echo-Dust Trapper, and a Spike Trapper with Arcane Mimicry... clearing the way to the Reaper is simple enough, I've done it, I just don't know how easy it would be to beat one of the quests. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  01:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The quest needed to get the spider is easy to win with a trapper or 55+SS team, which are the main builds used out there. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 02:35, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ProgR and I have done a few Black Widow runs with 600/smite. Ice Wastes ftw ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 12:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I want a Black Widow for one of my characters, I only wish I could run myself... I'd be stuck with Ranger secondary though, and one skill slot used up. A bit hard to do with a primary Assassin. :P
 * 600/Smite you say? That doesn't sound too hard... I've got a character that can run Smiter, and I've got multiple guildmates and friends who run 600, so all I would need to do is find someone who needs a Spider... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  12:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I can run both Smite and 600 ^^ So, if you ever need someone, just whisper me :D --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 12:36, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I haven't actually tried running my Smite build yet, just made it. :P So once I've got a few practice runs down (activate enchantments, stand still, try not to get bored), I'll probably be needing 600 Monks for farming. I'll drop you a line if I want to farm somewhere, feel free to do the same to me. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  12:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to attempt this with someone someday. If needed I could help out, running some randon Necro build, since that is who the pet would be for. (T/C) 03:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Gold Ad
Couldn't remember the link for the admin notice board thingy, so I'll just post it up here. There's another gold ad on the wiki, in case you haven't noticed yet: GdP China is the link to the site. -- -- talkpage 13:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It has been posted there, by X Deity X, iirc :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 14:04, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Serifs
Who the hell changed the MediaWikis font to Times New Roman Serif!! Aight back to bed 24.6.147.36 13:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Its so the people making user names to impersonate others are more obvious, I think. Lord of all tyria 14:18, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Discussion is here. It's serif, not times new roman. And only the page heading font was changed, not the font of anything else. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 17:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Less pretty, imm'a change my .css to revert it :( [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Contrib question
Is there any way to check the number of contributions of a user besides hand counting them?--<font color="Red">ìğá† <font color ="Green">ħŕášħ 23:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Fyren at one time had a "Stats" survey taken from the server information, which showed the number of users by edits. Wikipedia has a similar function. But, since it is now Wikia who runs our servers, we would have to ask them for such a report. I believe Gem or PanSola or someone was working on that. I would be interested to see the results also, since so far I have just been keeping a manual count. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can get a rough estimate just by screwing with the number of contribs shown on a page. Also, you could copy-paste into word, make the font really small (so they all are only on one line) and then do word count and it gives you the number of lines ;) --Wizardboy777 23:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What I do is check someone's contributions, set it to 50 per page, and count the pages. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  00:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I set mine to 500, then on the last page, copy+paste the contribs for that page into word, put it on a size 1 font, and do a word count for the number of lines. It's easier than it sounds.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 00:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Stubs
Are most of those stubs item pages are tagged with really necessary? Jennalee 06:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I dunno, "Stub" is used to tag any short article, or an article which hasn't met all criteria of the Style and Editing guide. Usually, short articles could be better made as redirects, since the item itself does not have enough unique characteristics to merit its own page. Axe Grip for example. I call those "Stub" out of shortness.
 * Tbh I don't check that category...there may be things in there which are totally unnecessary. Also, the real Stubs category, Category:Stubs and all its related subcategories, are usually not being worked on. It is a lot of work to expand articles from scratch to fit the S&F.
 * On the other hand, if there was a specific page or pages you were referring to, that would help me make a decision :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really referring to any specific page but I've noticed that a lot of the pages still tagged with have everything in the Style and Editing guide to my knowledge. Jennalee 08:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If they check out with all the relevant S&F guides, feel free to un-stub them. Most people aren't familiar with the guides, so while they are comfortable adding stub-tags they aren't so comfortable removing them. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

RFA/Viper
Would you be so kind to vote? :) --- -- (s)talkpage 21:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Aight [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the support ^^ --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 16:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Spiked Axe
I got a r11 out of Murakai's Chest the other night and saved it for you. Merry Christmas. 16:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) It's rarer than it looks, as I've been through all of Prophecies more than 10 times now and still never gotten a max-damage one of those. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have said Dmg +20% vs. creature mods for you still and something else :) Jennalee 08:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Working on it [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Wintersday
Could you possibly change the link on the main page from BMP to Wintersday 2007 for the duration of the period? :P Jennalee 08:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Too late, sorry I couldn't help. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello
Hi. 222.153.232.100 06:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Mr IP --<font face="vivaldi" size="3"> Shadow crest   06:12, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that...
You are in fact the Anon who just posted on GW2W, there is, as I recall, a way to delete accounts (although I've been given to understand that it is complicated and possibly not even feasible) such that you might be able to contact Anet's tech guys and get the problem fixed. If it was someone merely impersonating you, then my apologies. (Wow it's been a long time since I posted on GuildWiki) :). Cheers.    *Defiant Elements*   +talk  21:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Raptors stole entropys account (Made it before she did), and acclaimed to her being a sock of his. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 21:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Confushing <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  21:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way... he's also been asked to divulge the password of his own accord, but, assuming the password isn't too long, if worse comes to worse (and assuming the techies can't do anything about it) I can simply brute force the password. *Defiant Elements*  +talk  21:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I alredy made a personal attack on his page. grrrrr... --[[Image:Feardrake.JPG]] 21:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a reason I'm not even going to consider going to GW2W until all the movers and shakers from GWW have been banned.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ Talk^Cont 21:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's not end up with users boycotting GW2W before it even starts... give people the benefit of the doubt Giga, and contribute under the impression that if said movers and shakers try moving and shaking on GW2W, we'll have a simpler policy format and we can just boot their asses. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  22:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer DE, but that's not necessary...woudn't want you risking your neck for me like that, over such a small thing. I'll just make another account. If I ever decide to support GWW or GW2W... (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with GW2W? It's a great chance to merge two communities that are mostly seperated right now.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 04:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand. I don't contribute to GWW atm because I'm too busy here, and Raptors stole my username anyways. Likewise, I don't contribute to GW2W atm because I'm too busy here. Eventually, I will have to move there because we won't host GW2 content on this Wiki...but I'm not moving until I need to. Just don't see the point tbh, since I don't have anything to contribute to policy and shit. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You contradict yourself. First, you said "If I ever decide to support GWW or GW2W" and now you said that you "will eventually have to move there because we won't host GW2 content on this wiki." Do you support it or not?--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 04:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No one expects the GW2W Inquisition!
 * Srsly though, whatever. If I ever get around to deciding to support GWW, then yah, I'll make a different account there. It's the same for GW2W, I won't create an account there early unless I suddenly decide to support them. Note the difference between support and move. I'd go there because otherwise I would be homeless. That doesn't mean I would support them necessarily. Hell, you're not on GWW because you support them. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:56, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Touchè--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 04:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, I just joined in with them too. I'm not planning on using that account on GWW ever, but it WILL keep it from getting stolen by Raptors or some other douchebag --Gimmethegepgun 04:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Raptors has reformed, or at least so he's said, so I don't think you'll need to worry about him.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm probably not important enough to have my account sock-puppeteered, but I just wanted a non-anon to (maybe) talk with Anet people over there. In any case, I much prefer this wiki and it's laid-back feel. Screw them and their policy-obsession. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4"> [Talk]  05:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've seen Skuld and Auron reform, but Raptors? Pfft, I'll need more than just his word before I'll believe that. Starting with an apology for making a sockpuppet of me. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * GW:AGF--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * lol Raptors reformed, that'll be the day. Anyway, much better safe than sorry, especially since I am gonna use GW2W eventually, and I'm not gonna change my one-size-fits-all username because of some jerk online (damned edit conflicts) --Gimmethegepgun 05:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, taken from GW:AGF: "Assume all editors are acting in good faith, unless their actions prove otherwise." --Gimmethegepgun 05:07, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * His actions of taking Entropy's name was before he reformed.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Raptors is on GWW, not GWiki Marco, so at least point to the right policies. AGF can not apply to him either...he has gone way beyond all bounds of decency, and tbh I wouldn't let him hide behind ANY policies (except NPA) atm. I'm pissed about my name, but that isn't my only grievance with Raptors. That's not the issue here. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Some wise man once said something along the lines of "Trust is difficult to create but easy to destroy". Takes a long time for him to deserve the AGF after all that --Gimmethegepgun 05:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * "You see why I like to advocate giving second chances now?". Ofc, he was much less, but still... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 05:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but quite a few people, myself included, did not like him nor trust him in the slightest after that, but he made himself trustworthy after some time. And he wasn't nearly as bad as Raptors. How about an example? Okay, we all trust Entropy fully, right? I mean, we're busy spamming about crap on her page all day, and she also has quite a bit of influence with whatever she says, simply because of the trust. Now lets say suddenly one day she goes and starts deleting every page she can get to with Special:Random and bans everyone who ever posted on her page. After we eventually recover, would we trust her in the slightest? NO! --Gimmethegepgun 05:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, first you wouldn't believe what is happening, and you would assume that I had been hacked or it was one of those clever sockpuppets. (Although how would they get ban privileges?) After getting the situation under control, someone would try to contact me through mail or in-game to see what's going on. If I denied any knowledge of it and/or had a good alibi, then I'd be willing to bet most people would believe me...at least initially :P [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless she blames it on a younger sibling. <font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4"> [Talk]  05:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Except she's in college (I think, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that at some point) --Gimmethegepgun 05:25, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Speaking of GW2W, wtf is this site? http://www.gw2wiki.com/index.php/Main_Page --[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not protected, the edit button is there instead of view source. Some vandal erased the main page --Gimmethegepgun 05:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I'd say it's empty. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 05:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And I'd say that isn't GW2W :/ --Gimmethegepgun 05:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really empty, more like, devoid of admins or anyone who gives a crap. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>  <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  05:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It has one useful contributor, who is also bureaucrat and sysop. It's just a...weird site--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Other than today there has been no contributions, constructive or otherwise, in the past week. Also, I can't log on with the account I made at GWW earlier today, and besides, the location of the real GW2W is here --Gimmethegepgun 05:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Define "useful contributor". No contributions to the guy's name, he apparently just made the site and that was it. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  05:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He made some useful contributions to Race and Main Page and a few other pages. It looks like it's just an attempt of a spin-off of GW2W by someone who doesn't want to "go official"--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 05:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My guess is that's GuildWiki's abandoned attempt at making a GW2 wiki. Also, check out this proposed policy name on GW2W :P Seems like they're at least getting into the spirit of GuildWiki over there rather than GWW. Also, that page was made in April, before GW2W --Gimmethegepgun 05:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Tbh it's a more logical name than the "real" GW2W's address, but yeah it's probably just some dumb spinoff. Although, there are quite a number of GWiki/GWW spinoffs as well. Btw Gimme, I'm not in college yet, that'll be at the end of this year after I graduate :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh. Also, like I said, that page was made in April, which was long before GW2W came out in October --Gimmethegepgun 06:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Guild Wars Glossary of Terms
Gonna work on it any time soon?--‎ S<tt>p</tt>a<tt>m</tt>  T<tt>o</tt>c<tt>k</tt>  23:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't even had computer access since Friday before Christmas, and this year I had to do all the cooking and baking too. So yeah, I'll get working on that soonish. But I've been busy. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Happy? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

User:RT
Hey, I use RT as a shortened name for me in my sig, would it be possible for me to: So nobody else uses it as there name. <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>
 * Register the account, and redirect the userpage and talk page to my own
 * Flag it for banning (as I don't need a sockpuppet)


 * Unlike GWW, we don't have a GW:USER policy, so there is nothing wrong with your sig. Same as with Marcopolo47, whose sig icon is "MP47" - I don't care about that and would never force him to register another account User:MP47 and redirect it. It's just stupid and unnecessary.
 * However, if you are genuinely worried that someone may take the username RT, then I suppose you could go ahead and register it. I don't see the harm. Actually, I'm not sure if you even have to register it: you could probably just make User:RT and redirect. JediRogue made a shoepuppet account, User:RogueJedi, but I'm not sure if that was done via registration or not.
 * As to banning, yeah, I can do that. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  10:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Aight. Let me know if there are any problems, I've never banned a shoe before. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * (From proxy) It blocked my IP. :( 66.118.190.50 11:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 212.139.102.241 66.118.190.50 11:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've got TOR running now, but i'd apreciate the unblock <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  11:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, you know what they say. Be careful what you wish for... [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 12:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, editing will be slower because of TOR <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  12:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Well Gem unblocked User:RT, but Entropy could've just keep "Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IPs they try to edit from" unchecked to avoid RT having to edit from TOR. BTW RT, I'd recommend you edit your user page (logged-in as Randomtime) to mention that User:RT is your account too. Just to reduce confusion, since in the past we have had other users redirecting their userpages to someone else's whose name looks similar. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 18:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, pan is my IP unblocked? <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  21:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There seems to be no auto ban on any IPs in the block log. I checked that while unblocking RT. ;) -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 21:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoops, sorry RT. I leave that box checked when blocking real vandals, so I forgot about it. Like I said, never blocked a shoe before. :) Thanks Gem for taking care of the problem. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * /me thanks Gem <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  08:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Goldenmama's RFA
I didn't make it, I simply added it to the RFA page. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3"> Shadow crest   19:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I was curious why...Goldenmama seemed to have nominated themself (by what the RfA said) and so logically I assumed that they would have added their own RfA to the page. I checked your talkpage and Goldenmama's talkpage and I didn't see any correspondance between you, so it seemed strange. Are you friends IRL or in game, or something? It just seemed odd that an experienced user would add an RfA for some unknown person, which is pretty much a joke. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I just happened to be on when they made their RFA, and since I noticed they hadn't put it on the RFA page, I did it for them. (marco was also on, but he was too slow. notice how we voted at almost the same time). I almost considered not bothering and putting a note on the talk page for an admin to "exercise his (or her!) abusive administrative powers and shut down the nomination," but I figured they could at least try, no matter how sure I was that they would fail. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3"> Shadow crest   05:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh I see, so you just added a link, but they had created it first. Alright, sorry for all the confusion. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. I've no idea who they are, had never heard of them, and actually nobody has heard of them since that day, unless they contributed anonymously as an IP. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3"> Shadow crest   06:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Dzagonur Bastion bonus
The edit log says you deleted the strategy for the bonus for that mission, and I'm rather puzzled as to why. Have you found a way to get two heroes and the whispers groups to hold two bombards essentially forever but neglected to give the details? That you say the bonus is hard with just henchmen and heroes seems to imply otherwise, as does your claim that the heroes don't handle splitting very well (that's what hero flags are for, isn't it?). If you haven't, then is there some reason why the strategy you posted isn't flagrantly inferior to the one you deleted? Nothing in the previous strategy struck me as exploitive, and the only thing that seems at all illegitimate about the old explanation is using a ritualist in a Nightfall mission--and you didn't delete that part.

I tried the previous strategy twice today, and it still reliably works with just henchmen and heroes. Just for fun, after clearing three bosses the second time, I left to eat dinner, leaving Master of Whispers and Razah to hold the bombard as long as they could. More than half an hour later, they still had it. It's possible that you misread the previous explanation and thus didn't actually try it. If you ever have to help out Master of Whispers and Razah apart from positioning them and the whispers groups before any fighting takes place, you're doing it wrong. Indeed, the entire point of the previous strategy was that you could set two heroes at the start and then ignore that bombard for the rest of the mission. I don't think they can quite hold one bombard forever, but in twelve tries, they've held it long enough to kill the other three bosses without needing any additional help every single time. Quizzical 02:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * One thing before I start: Drop the attitude, please. I haven't heard such presumptious language since the goddamned Builds section was removed. Your work isn't gone forever, and you are not assuming good faith when you make claims like "you didn't read it", "you didn't try it", "you didn't understand it", "it works for me" (so you automatically /fail nub), "your strategy is flagrantly inferior" (burden of proof lies with the accuser)...etc. I have every right to edit any page that I want without being bombarded with insults over such a trivial issue as a walkthrough rewrite for quality control. Excuse the pun.
 * I didn't delete it. I just rewrote it. The original bonus was a load of crap in terms of being presentable as an encyclopedic entry. It had such errors as referring to oneself ("I", "I'll"), awkward things like "It helps to have a Restoration ritualist, I'll call him Razah, but it doesn't have to be Razah, it can be a secondary Ritualist with 12 in Restoration" (W/Rt, R/Rt, D/Rt, P/Rt, A/Rt lols? People are that stupid, trust me), "Bone Fiends are bad because they trigger Whirling Defense" (wtf? you have no melee attackers anyways, who cares - the point is that they are too expensive, you want defensive minions), a comment that belonged on the talkpage ("The above advice is very good...") although RT fixed that and it wasn't yours, and other problems which made the whole thing unreadable and worthy of a tag for higher standard of quality.
 * Now, I'm not saying that the advice itself was bad - as you can see, I left in some of it, such as taking the westernmost boss first and using a Resto Rit. It wasn't the content itself that I had issues with, just the way the content was worded. In my opinion, it could not be easily fixed in one sitting, so to save the article for now I rewrote it with a similar but slightly different strategy, which I also know works for any half-competent player. It doesn't work on Hard Mode, but neither does yours quite frankly. I can work on improving the previous walkthrough and I will merge the two of them together once it's done...basically what I did was just a temporary measure.
 * Heroes and Henchmen suck at splits, and the flagging system is good but inadequate for many situations. Why? Because you have to manually control everything; placing flags through the overhead map (the radar) is risky when you need precision placement (ie right next to, or behind, the bombards); H/H don't understand how they need to let the bombard handle most enemies (they will chase them); H/H don't understand that it is very important to stand near the bombard to prevent capture or initiate recapture. For all these reasons, plus the fact that humans make this mission a joke for Masters, the bonus is not easy with H/H. If you're a prO at H/H soloing, then it's a different story, but most players are not. "Hard" is a subjective term anyways, and if that offends you then it could be changed to "not easy shit the same way Consulate Docks is" or something. But that seemed a little long.
 * This is the first mission in Nightfall where a solo H/H player will run into real difficulties, a true test of their mastery of the AI. In previous missions, you could keep the entire team together, and little more than Move, Kill, Repeat was necessary for success. You didn't have to guard anything or split the team. Basically, this is the Eternal Grove of Nightfall, though much less stressful. It is a step up in difficulty if you want that Masters. Hell, even Gate of Madness or Jennur's Horde are an easier bonus than this one in terms of H/H mastery needed...and most players use humans or runs for those. It's because enemies rush you in this mission, and you don't have the luxury to sit back and leisurely meander your way through unless you actually brought 3-4 Heroes to leave behind. Good luck with firepower in that case, though...you have, what? Devona, Cynn, Herta? But then you've got no healing. Even in the best case, a human healer and then taking Khim, that is a weak team which will have trouble with a speedy kill.
 * It is not necessary to hold the bombards indefinitely; you are a bad player if you need that much time to take out one of the bosses. If you want to hold two bombards forever, then you can use one Minion Master and two Restoration Ritualists (or the other way round). However you have the firepower problem as mentioned above. If you happened to be running an A/E Locust's Conjure build, that is no problem. But it would not work for all classes.
 * You could attempt to hold one bombard with an MM and another bombard with a Rit, but that won't last "indefnitely" (dinner 30min after three bosses dead? Zomg, you left when there was only one bombard to defend! What an accomplishment!). Unless you're going to run some crazy N/Rt split build with healing and minions together (not specified in your strategy), the MM group will have problems, since there will be no healer. You could compensate by giving that group two sets of Whispers. But, that leaves the Ritualist group with only one Whispers group. And as you well know, they are completely inadequate for anything but being a distraction and bodies. So, the Rit group would have no offense but the bombards, and the MM group would have no healers so any lost Whispers would be a huge blow. Either way, one of those groups is likely to be overwhelmed if you sat back and did absolutely nothing. I don't believe there is a strategy out there, anywhere, that lets you hold two of the bombards truly indefinitely from the very start of the mission.
 * Your strategy involves leaving behind two Heroes and then going to take out a boss. At the basic level, that's exactly what I advocate also. So to be honest, I am not sure where the ferocity of your disagreement comes from. For both of us, we're assuming that the player has some idea of what they are doing, so they kill one boss quickly and immediately and that saves a bombard. After that it really doesn't matter what you do, to be honest...you can go straight across and kill the other three bosses, you can play it safe and go help one of the bombard groups, you can park your team next to one of the others and take a break...once one of the bombards is taken care of, the mission becomes a joke, and strategy becomes almost irrelevant.
 * "Indeed, the entire point of the previous strategy was that you could set two heroes at the start and then ignore that bombard for the rest of the mission." (emphasis added) - Now you are puzzling me. The word "That" implies a singular, one bombard. Are you saying that you should park the MM and the Rt on the same bombard? If you are, then...I'm confused because that is exactly what I said to do also. And you are implying that if you follow your strategy, you can ignore one bombard essentially forever. You can take care of another bombard by immediately eliminating a boss. But then what about the third bombard? From what I'm reading, it will only be guarded by Whispers groups. Those won't last very long at all...hardly indefinitely. So either way, your strategy or mine, the player is required to quickly eliminate bosses so that the bombard held by the Whispers is not overwhelmed. (or, help them out and then advance, either way)
 * If our strategies are so similar, why are we having issues here? I am curious as to your imput. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry to offend you. I'm well aware that my people skills aren't very good, and was (and still am) rather confused as to what your edit was about.  I did not say that you didn't read it; rather, that you may not have understood it, which certainly seems to be the case from your lengthy reply here.  (And thanks for the reply, by the way.)
 * A rewrite of the strategy that was given is not the issue at hand here. The crux of my strategy was to have two heroes hold one bombard indefinitely, so that you can ignore that bombard for the duration of the mission.  To delete that is to delete the strategy, regardless of what other incidental details are left or rearranged.  You change the strategy to say "have the Whispers groups and your Heroes hold two of the bombards" (emphasis added), but leave no details on how to do that.  If they're holding two bombards rather than one, it's fundamentally a strategy totally different from the one I used.  Unless the whispers groups and heroes can hold at least one of those bombards essentially forever without any attention from any players, it's not at all similar to what was posted before.
 * You say in the article that henchmen and heroes "don't handle splits very well", and above essentially reiterate that. In some cases, that is true.  For the strategy I wrote for Dzagonur Bastion, whatever flaws the AI has regarding splits, they aren't relevant to this mission.  The simple AI of attacking when mobs come close and just standing there when they don't works beautifully in this particular case.
 * Granted, for a player who has no idea what to do, Dzagonur Bastion is much harder than anything in Nightfall that precedes it. But the strategy I posted takes takes of the confusion of managing heroes out of it.  You flag two heroes before combat starts, and never have to flag anything again for the duration of the mission, essentially treating the third hero as an extra henchman (but with a better build)--and with no need to flag henchmen at all, at any point in the mission.  Once combat starts, the hero management is well shy of what I use for, say, Pogahn Passage, let alone something more complicated like Ruins of Morah.
 * Above you say that "you don't have the luxury to sit back and leisurely meander your way through unless you actually brought 3-4 Heroes to leave behind". But the entire point of my strategy was that, after killing the first boss, you do have the luxury to take your time, while leaving behind only two heroes.  A group of six may be a little short on damage, but it's adequate to spike down and kill one boss eventually.  Indeed, if a boss was taking too long, you could go kill just one margonite before returning to save the center bombard, and have enough time to do that repeatedly, and eventually only have to fight a boss by itself.  I would typically take Mhenlo, Kihm, and Sogolon for healing, or drop one of them if I could do some healing myself.  The other slots were for single-target damage dealers.  I used the strategy posted for a run with myself playing as every single class, using no secondary profession skills and no pve-only skills except for Sunspear Rebirth Signet and sometimes whatever Sunspear skill was associated with my primary class.  All but two of those were with only henchmen and heroes; for the other two (I do not recall which classes those were), I helped out some people who were complaining in the chat that the mission was impossible.
 * As for what the leaving Razah and Master of Whispers to hold a bombard for half an hour build was about, the point is, they can hold a bombard with the previous strategy that long without any help whatsoever. An equivalent test would have been to kill the first boss, then sit at the center bombard for half an hour killing whatever Kournans come there, but offering absolutely no additional help at the east bombard.  The reason I didn't do it that way was that being able to go AFK was easier.
 * You're correct that a player shouldn't need half an hour to clear the mission. But my point is that if a player has half an hour if he needs it, he has however much time he actually needs.  Neither your strategy nor the one that mine replaced a couple months ago allows a player anywhere remotely near that much time.  A player may not need well over half an hour, but if he only has two minutes before a bombard falls without his help, that can make master's reward awfully hard.  My experience with trying to get whispers groups and heroes to hold multiple bombards was that they don't buy you very much time--which is why I abandoned that approach.
 * "Are you saying that you should park the MM and the Rt on the same bombard?" Yes, yes, that is exactly my point.  "But then what about the third bombard? From what I'm reading, it will only be guarded by Whispers groups."  Less than that, actually.  The center bombard is guarded by nothing initially, save the three guards substantially in front of it.  After killing the warrior boss, there is plenty of time to come back and save the center bombard before it falls entirely.  From then on, you have to defend that one bombard.  But that means you can leave to go kill a boss, and when you return, only have to save one bombard.
 * Personally, I find it very easy to defend one bombard, if I can ignore all others. What I find much harder is to defend two bombards at once, or rather, to have to defend two bombards while you're leaving to go kill a boss.  If heroes and whispers groups can't hold their bombards for as long as necessary without any help from the player, then the player effectively has to defend those bombards himself or else lose them.  If you're assuming that the heroes are going to die after a while, then even after one boss is dead (indeed, after two bosses are dead), you're still stuck defending two bombards yourself.  If you only have to defend one bombard yourself, on the other hand, you can leave it when you have full control over it and no mobs are on the way, and not need to make it back until it is a small sliver away from being fully captured and destroyed.  If you're defending two bombards yourself, you don't have that luxury:  the perfect time to leave one bombard might be a rather bad time to abandon the other.  Furthermore, if both bombards are near capture when you make it back, if you save one, the other gets destroyed.
 * One final side point. You say above ""Bone Fiends are bad because they trigger Whirling Defense" (wtf? you have no melee attackers anyways".  Well, actually you do have melee attackers:  Vabbi Guards.  The reason you don't want ranged minions is that whirling defense will damage (and perhaps kill) the Vabbi Guards that you need to help Master of Whispers and Razah defend the bombard.  For that matter, the point of having a ritualist (as opposed to a monk) healer there is that Recuperation and Life heal all non-spirit allies, not just party members or a targeted ally.  That gets Razah to heal the Vabbi Guards and Disciples of Secrets quite a bit, whereas a monk hero won't heal them at all.  Quizzical 09:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

GWW fun
I know you've said that you have no intention of moving over to GWW, and I also saw your comment on GW2W with reference to the dick who stole your user name. I can understand the whole issue pissing you off on all things official-wiki related, but you may be interested on the discussion going on here. Always know who your friends are :) -- Snog  rat  21:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. To be honest I don't give a damn about what anyone thinks of me on the other two Wikis...I believe that because of good faith policies, each Wiki should be treated as a separate entity, with very little crossing over between them. A person can be a kind, considerate, trusted user on one Wiki and an absolute troll on another. So, while some remnants of the past should follow us (keep your friends and enemies if you wish, for example), I believe that a user's reputation and image for Wiki X should be based primarily, 90%, on his or her actions on Wiki X. Everyone deserves...no, everyone has a clean slate when they begin on a new Wiki. People who port over their reputations or any pretense of being respected, useful, knowledgeable, etc. run into trouble, as we can see from the "grandfathering" of sysops from GWiki to GWW and other issues. People change between Wikis, for better or worse, sometimes markedly - I've seen that far too many times myself. Only in the truly exceptional cases (Raptors is the perennial example) should this standard be broken.
 * Always know who your friends are, but be prepared for change when you shift Wikis. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)