Talk:Game updates/Archive9

Gladiator Title Track
Awww.... Anet just made this as good as worthless now.... Dirk150 21:13, 2 August 2007 (CDT)


 * According to the official Wiki, it's a text only change. I suppose it might indicate a later change. --Jeremy Winston 21:15, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Oh good. It can still be worth something. Dirk150 21:16, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I hope they revert this back to normal. Not only does it invalidate the hours we spent trying to earn it, it also eliminates it's prestige since you get points for every single win, turning this into the kind of title that doesn't take skill, just time. I've almost got rank 3 and i worked very hard for many hours over a long time span...now anyone can get where I did in a few days. Please ANet, appreciate our work for the glad title and make a new title instead for individual wins. I suggest calling the first rank "Arena Challenger," then eventually "Arena Champion." Demonic Peaches 21:52, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * They could change the points at which you go up a rank to compensate. ---[[Image:Sora267signature.jpg]] 22:12, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Do note, that the Hero title is also a title that gives you (quote) "points for every single win, [...] that doesn't take skill, just time.". Ekhem :P &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 23:04, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Noted, but that remark is based on the assumption that I think hero is more prestigous than the glad title, which I don't. Demonic Peaches 18:13, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

If they change the description of the title, they will also have to convert current glad points such that 1 old glad point = 25 new glad points (10 wins + 5 bonus + 10 bonus). That will compensate. 83.130.79.71 02:22, 3 August 2007 (CDT)


 * No it will not... out of the first glad rank, how many matches did you play to get it? Certainly not just 250, all 10 by 10 consecs. You played around 400 matches.. all won, not metioning the lost ones, to get those 10 consecutives 25 times over. So giving me 250 new glad points, saying i wont 250 matches, isent gonna cover it, since if that were the case, i should have had 400 points, and i doubt Anet has a system to count how many arena wins you have on an account.
 * Stop complaining.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 13:56, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Mgrinshpon, that doesn't really do it for me. You see, even if ours is increased, the challenge that we had in getting the glad title as it stands is not accurately represented. Trading 85 "streak points" for even triple that amount in "win points" is like trading $85 for triple that number in nickels. It doesn't represent the struggle and it definitely doesn't show the 9-streaks, the 7, 8, and 9 win-streaks cut off by new builds or the "misfortune" of the 9-win streak cut off by 4 Korean touchers. I don't want you to think I am bragging or that I have some sense of entitlement to have my interests protected, I just want what's truly fair to everyone. And I still don't see why they can't just make a new title. Demonic Peaches 18:13, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If you don't like 255 dollars, than that's fine by me. Guild Wars is a game and everything you've ever done is still owned by ANet.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 19:00, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I told you, I don't say this out of a sense of entitlement - I don't expect ANet to do anything just because I say so, I'm just suggesting an alternative that might make *everyone* happy (making a new title). I know my accomplishments are part of their game and they have the right to do what they want, but in this case I feel it's not necessary, just my two cents. Demonic Peaches 21:47, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Casting Time
I\s this new, or when hovering over a skill icon, a little clock with hands pointing toard 3 o'clock is displayed always been there? Nhnowell 23:15, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * There has always been such a thing, if it had a specific casting time. Most attack skills, all stances, Endure Pain and RaO, to name a few, don't have such a clock, because their activation time is either variable (dependant on attack speed, as with Attack Skills), or it has an instant activation. Hope that answers your question.

Aug 2nd update - Vampirism still bugged
After this update Vampirism is still bugged and only does 10 dmg irrespective of Sunspear rank. It also does not trigger Painful Bond's dmg, I am not sure how long that has been the case. --Heurist 23:28, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Aug 3 update and Vampirism dmg is fixed, still does not trigger Painful Bond )-:. --Heurist 22:28, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

"Miscellaneous Fixes"
I thought the fix to remove those exploits was something from a much older update, as I clearly remember someone else asking on Talk:Game updates "Why did they remove the gold reward? Bots lolz?" And the answer was: "Yes, it may be a small amount but it is easy to set up and adds up reliably". Is this just a copy&paste error on a Wikian's part, or has ANet "fixed" a bug twice now? I am confused. (T/C) 00:58, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * They were different quests I think... Now its impossible to make money early in NF O_O The Imperialist
 * No, they just shifted the rewards. I rolled my first Nightfall character two weeks ago, and there were a lot of bots running around the first outpost, and that was after they 'fixed' the quests already. Now you won't get that reward until you pick a secondary at level 5. Any one know why the bots aren't farming Factions quests?--71.116.78.108 02:20, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Aha, another one of ANet's notorious "oops we didn't really fix it" patches. Thanks for the clarification. I am guessing that Factions quests aren't farmed because you do not earn enough Gold from the bottable quests to pay for a Storage Vault of 100g...if I remember correctly. Either that, or because the beginning NF + Chahbek is simpler and more profitable. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:22, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Maybe Anet should focus more of its energy in improving things instead of trying to find ways to prevent ppl from making money???? Just a thought.....
 * By stopping reroll farming of this nature, it increases the value of all other gold in the game. Arenanet just relatively made my cash more powerful without doing anything to me, I won't complain -Ezekiel 07:32, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * That increase in gold value doesn´t help you getting your armor, those prices are fixed.
 * Yeah, cause armour is totally the only thing you can buy, doesn't require materials that don't have fixed prices, and is exactly what Ezekiel said. Capcom 17:10, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

ascalon guards
im not sure if i just missed this in some earlier update but didnt pre searing ascalon guards used to look like the post ones. now their armour is neater and looks nicer. --S474N1C 05:18, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

This was altered in the July 17th update, i noticed straight away but forgot to update it. Dread Pirate Fargus 09:41, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

NEW FPS
idk how to edit the update page, the FPS now shows the background updates and how fast it is coming in, thx --Patch 07:06, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Does this only happen outside of outposts or something? Not sure I understand. I noticed myself that they seem to have fixed the bug you see when LB farming when it says " Margonites Killed" rather than "25 Margonites Killed". - Yellow Monkey 07:13, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well heres a screen shot hope this helps [[Image:Fpsbackground.jpg|thumb|Description]]--Patch 13:53, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Nothing new, always been there with big updates. 84.87.168.39 04:04, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

August 3rd new update.
Is on official wiki ^^ Copper Elf 21:24, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Aye, it is. I don't know what the copyright rules are, although I'm tempted to copy-paste it from official wiki to here. Nhnowell 21:26, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol, beat you to it :P I've been trying to help out around here, since I'm usually in game when I see the updates hit, I grab them from the official wiki and put them in here. I'm still new to the whole code thing though, so its a learning experience. Isk8 21:50, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You'll get used to it pretty easily. By the way, the total update size with -image is 2mb, not 2.3mb. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:Hawkicon.png]] 10:00, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Reset of territories change
Sorry if this is not at right place, i dont know where to put it, and feel free to move it.

On the french official Guild Wars web site, in the same new that say there will be another Dragon Festival, they say that they will reset the territory changes so that everyone will be back to 4 again. But why are they doing this ? -- TůζipVõrζąx Talk 22:39, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It says the same thing on the american site. Thier explaination is because some players were to laggy to participate they are giving them another chance(Don't ask me how that will solve thier lag lol). As for the territory reset, they say they are just doing it to add to the fun. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:Hawkicon.png]] 10:08, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The lag was because of their server problems, not due to the players. So this will be good for those who had lag then, as its most likely they wont have it now. As for the territory change... when kinda pointless really  brains12  (talk) 09:19, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

New Damage Mod?
hey guys, i just got a new Damage mod on a weapon, brand new, never seen it before in my 1 1/2 years of playing. Damage +15%, Health regeneration -1. Is this part of the update? 68.226.80.7 10:58, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you sure it wasn't a vamp + other generic mod?--Gigathrash 11:01, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm pretty sure these have been around always, they're just alot more rare in my experience. I've also recently had my first of these drop, in Factions iirc. I believe some of these weapons used to drop in Pre-searing and that made them very valuable for death-levellers. I think they got ditched from pre some time ago though. So to sum up I think these have been around always :) Copper Elf 12:53, 4 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I've seen that but 13% version, its basicly a pve pre nightfall mod(cause that as an inscription would be about 10k each so ya the health degen is because think of 15% + 20%(customized) max weapon and absouloutly no reqs to do the extra 35% damage.142.161.90.233 01:17, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * But mine is 15%. Ok i do agree with you, this has been around for awhile but its very rare. And theres no inscription for it either. I've looked up all the inscriptions and none of them matches the mod im using. And no, its not vamp. The weapon is sundering68.226.80.7 06:22, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

They do exist as prophecies, factions, and core drops, and been here for a while. there isn't an equivalent inscription. I can get shots of a sephis axe (non-insc => ch1), chaos axe (core), and archaic axe (ch2). Foo 07:04, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Damage +15%, Health regeneration -1 is NOT new, I have found a weapon with that mod long time ago &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.133.101.252 (contribs).

Preorders in Storage
Why was this a problem? -Kumdori 14:59, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, it's not like anyone other than you can use your storage to get them out. But also why would you need to put them in in the first place? All your characters can get them before they even HAVE storage. >.> In that sense, I get why Hero items were made non-storage (Well, before they were customized), since those are free max weapons. Oh well, Anet is just finding silly things to do since they have to make it look like they're not COMPLETELY focused on GW:EN. xD &mdash; [[Image:NessHrinIcon.png]]  Ness  17:21, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I have a few weapons for my character, and I keep a bunch of them in storage to have more space for drops. If I would be using a moded bonus item there probably would be times I would want to put it in storage... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 20:37, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Why is it a problem that you are not able to put customised weapons in your storage? Plus, you can recreate them in case you have a full inventory, so what's your problem with it? 84.87.168.39 04:10, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but some of the preorder items have upgrade slots, and you can't re-create the upgrade components. -- Gordon Ecker 04:12, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I still don't get it...84.87.168.39 07:01, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Okay then. Let's say you have a "Nevermore Flatbow". It comes with a Poisonous Bow String already on it. Now, if you delete it and make another, you lose nothing, since that mod already comes on the item.

Now, let's say you choose to add a max, +30 Health Bow Grip of Fortitude to your Nevermore Bow. Since the /bonus weapons can no longer be Salvaged, that upgrade you applied is permanent - you cannot salvage the mod off the weapon. So, what happens if you need more storage space and you can't put this into storage? Well, if you delete it you are an idiot because you basically just deleted a perfect Bow Grip of Fortitude. So what else can you do? Not too much! This is why people are complaining: since you can't salvage the mod or put it into storage, these latest updates discourage people from adding good mods to their /bonus items. Sure you can create the item again - but you can't create a free, +30 Health Bow Grip of Fortitude with /bonus.

So basically, if you are a PvP-only player or are very rich, this doesn't matter to you much...but for most of us this seems like an unfair nerf. Now /bonus items are really only good to give to Heroes... (T/C) 13:29, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Or you could put a weapon that has not been summoned into storage instead. Savvy? 87.174.237.211 06:45, 6 August 2007 (CDT)


 * My solution would be to make them salvageable like collector weapons, guaranteed loss of weapon but you can get one mod back. Or just make them storageable, it does no harm, they are customised after all. --Heurist 04:34, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * This is what I used to do, it stopped working but I did it again today: equip the bonus weapon you want to put in storage, place a non-bonus weapon in storage, double-click the weapon in storage to equip it; it swaps places with the one you have equiped. Tada, bonus weapon in storage. I am not sure why this works at some times and not at others, will need to test more. --Heurist 13:04, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

If i have the pre other items from NF and i get the preoder items for GWEN does that mean when i type /bonus i get both sets of items or just teh GWEN ones and can no longer get the scyth and spear????
 * You'd get both. I get the bonus items from Nightfall and the bonus items from Factions when I type /bonus so I would imagine you'd still get all items when typing /bonus. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  12:19, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It kind of annoys me. I type /bonus and half of my inventory is suddenly filled with things I don't want (minus 1). Deleting everything is troublesome :/ (I have the Prophecies and Nightfall bonuses, and will soon add more garbage with GWEN :P) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 21:15, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I would like to see a menu open up when you type bonus that allows you to choose the item(s) that you want. 66.239.250.209 13:30, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, something like the Mission end "Unclaimed Items" box but with a "Dismiss All" button next to the "Accept All" button, on that note I would like a "Dismiss All" on the mission end unclaimed item box. --Heurist 23:23, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

There will be problems with the Darksteel Longbow item; it will be indestructible. (I think there should be enough crossover between GW and MTG that that was worth it.) Hashmir 16:10, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, but don't forget the loophole, the controller can still sacrifice it. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 20:43, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

erTDRTYDRTYT
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile_News now now now!!!!!!!111 -- Nova   --  (contribs) 16:28, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * this is not a minor edit!!!! -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 16:28, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

W T F Exhaustion on Rit spells and binding rituals! Seriously...I don't care if it cripples Ritspike, how can a Channeling Rit play PvE at ALL now?! Screw you ANet.

In other news, all the other professions got (mostly) serious buffs. Echo recharge in 10s? GLYPH OF RENEWAL 10s? OMG!! GoEP 10 SPELLS?!! *faints* (T/C) 16:49, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * gogo echo nuker in pvp ;p BUT SPLINTER WEAPON GOT NERFED!!!! NO MOAR SPLINTER BARRAGE ;(((( -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 16:50, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Typo! "Splinter Weapon: decreased recharge time to 20 seconds." Should say Increased. Also, WTF again at that - no more Splinter Barrage farming at Battle of Turai's Procession, and no more easy Tomb of the Primeval Kings. Time to use Orders again, sigh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:55, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * read history of the update template should you ever find it, makes no sense to me. But I should point out that Drain Enchantment is now 0 energy cost at 0 inspiration and buffs up MoR dom mesmers like $%^#$^$% -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 16:57, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Remove Hex is also pretty haxxor now. Same for Guardian. I feel sorry for Aegis though, now I might actually use Defensive Anthem sigh. I am happy also that Azn got 30s recharge Shadow Step that isn't Shadow Walk (a stance). Plague Sending also OWNS if it can transfer more than one Condition. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:01, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Remove hex. What an irony. Used to be ragequit material. I'll miss doubleclicking veils :| -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 17:05, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, they wtfpwned some skills, and yet they still COMPLETELY forgot to give Shadowsong Exhaustion (an anti-attacker totem that chucks blind at EVERYTHING near it and makes non AoM melee worthless? how did they NOT nerf that???). Heh, they also re-nerfed Spirit Rift back to 2 second cast like before. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we would like to present to you... the unfortunate burial of the once-almost-proud Power Shot! It's lived a good (but extremely rocky and disliked) life, but now it is over. May it find peace in death (since it won't find it anywhere else!). Unfortunately STILL no mention of fixing those damned stuck warriors.... --Gimmethegepgun 17:17, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Anet is noob. They nerf ritspike which takes a lot of coordination and skill but not zergway which takes none at all (at least ritspike takes more skill than zergway). And yes a good idea would be to put a bit of nerfbat on some of the skills, not dump exhaustion on every single one!!!! -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 17:28, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Gaaaaaahhh!!!! WTF, my rit will become worthless now!!! if i can't use splinter weapon i'll have to use vwk! and i can't farm battle for turai's with vwk.. awww i'm hoping this isn't lasting forever.. cause if it does i'll give up my rit.. and i don't wanna do that..!!! atleast i'll have more time for my monk, but stil: grr Falafel 17:35, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Awesome, assassin buffs. Plus the glyph ultrasuperchargeup will help greatly with my elementalist's farming. -- Hawk Skeer  17:57, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Good God, save us...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]PvEreanor 20:12, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

read the wording before you cry nerf. Foo 19:27, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Not so bad then. -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 19:58, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Rodgort's Invocation Spike anyone? Glyph of Energy + that = gg..you could also go elemental power but energy is nice, you acn also bring like gale.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:13, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * so splinter weapon isn't nerfed? thank god! Falafel 08:47, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

yayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayay! No more rit spike! thank you anet!--75.189.71.19 20:22, 9 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Yea, go ahead with that rodgort spike, until...... some lucky fool decides to test the new and shiny Xinrae's Weapon tho its doubtful it will be used--Idiot 20:27, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Lmao im trying it with guildies and it's sf spiek on crack.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:03, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * WOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTT TOOK FRICKIN HALLS WITH IT. HOYL SHIT YES&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]]  Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:21, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Does anyone have a retard to english dictionary?
 * I don't believe that for a second. =OOOOOO -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 12:36, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Nice, saw a lot of these skill updates coming from Izzy's page, but some huge surprises... Am I the only one that actually likes the exhaustion on some of those spirits? I mean, ouch for my energy, but after I casted one of those 25e monsters, I would be bottomed out for a while anyway. Now, I can keep those spirits up nonstop, they cost a lot less, and they last longer then the exhaustion. Still viable, just don't run two exhausters on the same bar. Channel spikers got hit hard, but many of those skills were nerfed because they were overpowered when used all at once... you can still spike just fine with the rest of the skills, and the exhaustion doesn't hurt much if you kill they guy on the first try anyway.

Let's see how this all turns out... I'm already looking forward to a few non-SP 'Sins starting to emerge, pre-EotN. -- Jioruji Derako.> 21:57, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Exhaustion is really really over the top.....its insanity..

cool with this new update you can keep shadow form up permantaly with arcane ccho and deadly paradox and with 16 shadow arts.

In regard to this quote from Gaile Gray: "We scaled down a number of Ritualist damage Spells as well, to further move away from "Rit Spike" builds that combine too much damage and defense on a single character." I would reply, isn't it okay to have both damage and defense in a single character a good thing? Or maybe she meant damage and defense in a single 'profession' instead? Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, the implication is that ANet wants to focus the Ritualist profession on being healing or support only and not a direct damage profession. If this is true, I hope they don't continue down that road. In my opinion, the Ritualist was one of the most interesting professions to play because of its versatility. You could play a Rit healer, a Rit spiker, a Rit spirit spammer, a Rit supporter/buffer, or even a Rit frontliner if you really wanted to. These Rit nerfs take a good deal of the fun out of playing a Rit, especially in PvE, and being as GW is a game, taking fun out shouldn't be Anet's goal. Shadowlance 17:36, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

holy ****
Instead of HoH getting favor, it's now maxing out titles. GG anet...trying to make pve better than pvp:P&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 20:23, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * No, just trying to sever links. [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px]] The Paintballer (T/C)
 * I think some of the skill nerfs (rt) are dumb as hell because they are entirely based on PvP... Rt isn't used much in PvE at all, and even less so now. However, this change is something I agree with and it should have come a long time ago.  While maybe the method is odd... favor should come from PvE activities because it is a PvE benefit.  Would it make sense for PvP people to not be able to do certain activities until the PvE players accomplish something?  Hell no.  It also didn't make sense for the PvE players to have to wait for PvP guys to win enough to get access to a PvE area. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 20:52, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * But still... in order for anybody to get favor random ppl have to constantly earn MAXED titles. Dirk150 22:47, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Well, you can get prestige faster now though maxing titles now i guess..... BUT this nerf on the Rits are in plain words: "dumb as hell". I mean it's not like it's pwning every single PVP build out there like iway...it's easily countered. And if people don't got the skill to overcome it, they don't. Don't help they overcome it by nerfing skills. If you're trying to make thing "fair" for everyone, why not just give every a rank 15 Hero,10 Champion and 10 Gladiator??Then we're be REALLY happy. Sandtrap 9:08 9 August, 2007 (PST)
 * I actually enjoyed fighting Rit Spike teams, it was always satifsying pounding them into the ground because they made us really work for it. Since I only use my ritualist for PvE I'm not particularly happy about their campaign to add exhaustion to all my skills.  At least they mention right up front this is designed for ongoing testing during the week.  Hopefully they'll find some other way to do that. -Gildan Bladeborn 00:21, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Hopefully they will unnerf Rit spike, it was one of the best spikes i'd seen. Sandtrap 11:12 9 August, 2007 (PST)
 * It was too good. They nerfed it because it was imba.  —ǥȓɩηɔɧ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 02:42, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

This is stupid, adding exhaustion to ritualist really cripple their offensive abilities. The reason why elementalists can handle exhaustion is because of energy storage and great energy management skills. This really screw them up big time. ---DK

Just my luck... I create a rit a week ago, get them up to lvl 20 and they break all of my favorite skills. Although, some of the other skill changes arn't that bad: Death's Charge, Arcane Echo and Shield Of Regeneration (I say SoR because you might be able to but it on a hero and not have them spam away their energy) And interesting way to get favor, mayhap the price of scrolls will go up. But why... WHY THE RIT SKILLS?!?!? Pyrecat 09:11, August 10 2007 (CDT)

victory token
A victory token dropped for me today :S, is this because the shing jea boardwalk reopened (which wasnt documented in the update or something) 82.171.112.238 04:22, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Dragon Festival rerun. --Kale Ironfist 04:31, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The event shouldn't have started yet. Ghost1 09:58, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

so that was just me being n00bish :) 82.171.112.238 05:01, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

umm lol? cKowDont 05:48, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Wrost fake ever. --Yuko 16:21, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * lol - farming the nameless now? Shadowlance 07:06, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * two of my pve char have taken the vic token quests, but my sin can't, i did the quests with him in the last festival, but i am not offered the quests on that character this time. Anyone else having this problem or something similar? 66.32.153.181 11:34, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If it's redux, i.e. to give a chance to those who coun't make it, it's possible that the quests were not reset. Alaris 12:06, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I've done them all last time with all my toons, and now I've already done them with 6 of them with no problems at all. Foo 13:19, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually Foo, last time, I also done all DF quests with all chars, but now some of my chars can do them all again, and some of them can't!!! Batchie 13:53, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * @Yuko, not a fake. Pretty much everything will drop Victory Tokens, but the drop rate on the target dummies is low, and it will only drop the first time you kill one. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 01:32, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Infact, a guildie of mine got one from an Archer in a GvG, gotta farm these everywhere! Ss

New update.
A small skillbalance change thingy. I don't know how to take updates from official wiki and post them here, and if I'm even allowed to Copper Elf 18:06, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't worry, I did it. I saw the update when I got online and came to post it. -- Marand 18:47, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * lol wtf. they think they can help ease the flame by reducing the recharge on an exhaustion causing skill... Typical ANet retardedness. -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 20:42, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Still messing around with the formula, I think. Most likely Izzy or someone else is watching how people deal with the huge nerf... the Exhaustion doesn't hurt the first spike, but makes killing more then the first target impossible, as far as I can tell. By messing around with recharges and downsides, they're trying to find an even ground... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 20:44, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Item duplication!
Yowza... I came back about a week ago and I was wondering why the economy was looking poor... I guess I shouldn't attribute it to this, but damn if it didn't hurt the economy a bit. Mightywayne 08:47, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

It's awesome. My leftover gems from DoA (including 11 titans) are now worth about as much as a bottle of rice wine. And if they duplicated pandas i'll be seriously pissed off. Course I wasnt planning on selling mine but godamn it, I worked hard to pay for it! NightAngel 09:00, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

This is BS. Thanks for destroying the economy dupers >:|CRAZE 
 * Think we'll have a rollback? Or will A-Net hunt down any big dupes? ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 13:51, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The Rollback would be several days long. I don't think that's gonna happen. If it did it would be the 2nd rollback in the history of GW after The Black Monday. And that one was only several hours worth. I really hope that tracking down multiple reconnects one after another is fairly easy and the guilty will be blocked, and the items destroyed. For now it's best not to buy anything for Armbraces... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 14:31, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What great timing on this... with the US Stock Market about to crash, what are the chances... =/ [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2  (talk)(contributions) 15:08, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What are you talking about.--Dice 17:37, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Crashes in the stockmarket? What? Mightywayne 18:31, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm assuming Frvwfr2 is referring to the subprime meltdown. -- Gordon Ecker 20:15, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Gem prices seemed to be fine to me - i sold another 5 Torment gems for 4K a piece last night in the thick of it all - i noticed titans are worth 12K approx but they had been getting cheaper and cheaper for a while - still i hope that Anet get the dupers cause it will destroy the economy - or at least there will be some people out there with tonnes of money they shouldnt have--XisdedOne 18:55, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I actually kinda have a feeling this really won't mean much. I mean people have probably raped the economy a bit, but really, they started the bans that night, so the damage control I must say looks to be okay. However, I wouldn't trade with anyone for another week if I were you. Mightywayne 08:44, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Figures, Game bugs up so I ctrl-alt-delete to close and restart the client, log back on to reconnect and its disabled... Damn lazy nerds--69.145.194.67 21:44, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * 'Tis less a problem of lazy nerds (ANet), and more a problem of busy nerds (dupers)... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 00:15, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Besides, ANet's response is a quick action to stop the problem until they fix it. Having done programming myself, I know that solving such a bug might take a while even for a competent crew. Alaris 09:23, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * "I know that solving such a bug might take a while even for a competent crew." ....so how long will it take ANet? =P =P =P [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 09:28, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, we're still waiting on them to fix the stuck warrior glitch when all they'd have to do is revert the war AI to what it was before they screwed it up --Gimmethegepgun 09:34, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * By lazy I mean the fact that they use shortcuts to make money rather then work for it. Anet hasn't done anything wrong, was just annoying to loose that progress.
 * Gimmethegepgun, the bugged warriors actually give the other team a chance to step off the portal without being swarmed by 8 hammer wielding warriors, if they fix that bug without balancing luxons down then theres something to complain about.... --69.145.194.67 13:18, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you have any idea what you're talking about? When they step off the portal they should be prepared to be swarmed. In any case, the bug NEEDS to be fixed because it is a gamebreaking bug: The wars won't move again and since no one kills them, the turtle and its warrior guards won't respawn again. That affects the game far more than you being smashed to bits because you're stupid enough to go through portal when the wars are there --Gimmethegepgun 13:21, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * A bug that prevents a extremely overpowered npc from being used until someone is stupid enough to kill the warriors... which many people are, theres always someone who kills the stuck warriors, you obviously do not know what you are talking about. Anyways luxons have no right to complain about FA. They always have had advantages and when they get a minor disadvantage they all start bitching. FYI: either step off the portal, stay put and let green gate fall, or open the green gate and let them, what exactly are you supposed to do to defend?--69.145.194.67 13:41, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * FYI, I play kurzick side quite often and I know that almost all the time someone is smart enough to stop the noobs from killing the wars. Second, this isn't a "minor disadvantage", it removes one of their ONLY advantage, and their biggest one. Also, when the wars AREN'T stuck and the turtles are pounding us, unless there's a monk, I can usually end up killing a turtle after 2 tries or so despite the large number of hammers hitting me and the fact that I rarely bring a defensive skill. Maybe you just need to avoid the warriors a little bit and hit the turtle? --Gimmethegepgun 13:50, 14 August 2007 (CDT)


 * ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 12:59, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Or, maybe, you should realize that's a shitty solution to a problem. Imagine ANet saying that. "Yeah hi, we're not going to fix the dupe problem. If you don't like it, go play WoW instead!" Their player base would shrink to a tenth of its size in at most a month. I hate people like you. Go formulate your opinions better before spewing them all over the place. Mightywayne 14:49, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * ^^--Talos of Flanders 17:45, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Reconnect was just re-enabled.--69.145.194.67 21:23, 14 August 2007 (CDT)


 * The preceeding green box could apply to me. But i really cant afford any monthly fees. I dont even have a credit card. -- TůζipVõrζąx Talk 22:20, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The bigger MMOs (like WoW or LotRO) have pre-paid cards. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 07:18, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Not being a programmer maybe this is not possible considering the scope of a game like GW, but reading about this exploit made me wonder how tough it would be for ANet to serialize all in-game items. (A hidden attribute generated on drops, when an item is crafted, etc.) It might help mitigate future duplication exploits anyway. Shadowlance 18:16, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * According to Gaile on GW Guru forum they can do all that: "Did you think we'd never notice? Of course we noticed! Our recordkeeping is exceptionally detailed. You can't move a piece of gold from one bag to another without us knowing it. And as a result, those at the center of abusing this exploit were banned. That is as it should be." .... --- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  20:37, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I know they serialize items in Diablo 2. -- Gordon Ecker 22:14, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I can see it now. Me:"So Gaile, we heard that you finally solved the duplication mystery. So who were the culprits exactly duplicating the items?" Gaile:"Our sources indicate the Koreans." Me:"Really? Mind explaining what the evidence was?" Gaile:"Well, we started by questioning random people in all the districts around the world. We began with the American districts, and finally moved to the Korean districts. It was there, where we recieved our first clue." Me: "So what was it...?" Gaile:"Well, we began questioning...and were returned with nothing but gibberish! We asked them politely to speak in American...but to no avail. At that point we knew...they were most definately hiding something." Me:"Are you positive they were trying to hide anything?" Gaile:"Readem, do you not understand that we can track gold transfer! If we can do that, we can most certainly detect if someone is lying through in-game chat...lol." Me:"Is that the only piece of evidence you have collected!?" Gaile:"You are so ridiculous, lol! What more is needed? The Koreans begin duplicating Rare Equipment...thus giving them a distinctive edge in GvG! Don't you understand...they had 18-21 dmg Swords with extremely rare skins...the average AR for the Korean Warrior was 80! They simply could not be beaten with such equipment...and thus, to punish them, they will get less favor than before!" Me:"..." Readem  (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 23:08, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * -_- The Hobo 00:16, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Lmao I read that whole thread, like 10 pages, and I'm sorry to say I don't believe gaile. Anet has good reasons to hide the duplication, and there were no login messages. But seriously, tracking items would put in HUGE loads of info, they could never sort through all of it...&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:28, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I lol'd.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 16:42, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Silent 14th update
Update - Tuesday, August 14, 2007

- Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates:August_2007 I'd put it up but I'm not sure about the copyright and w/e Tsukan 00:58, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed a bug in the encounter with Mallyx the Unyielding that caused his Summoning Shadows skill to ignore its recharge time.
 * The damage of Mallyx the Unyielding's Shadow Smash skill has been reduced to 150.
 * It's released into the public realm, it's ok to take it. An I'm surprised: someone mentioned that glitch on one of Izzy's pages I've been going through today (and having a war in 1 of em >:) ), he MIGHT actually be paying attention to us!! --Gimmethegepgun 01:00, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's actually released under GFDL, not public domain. :P - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 03:26, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I read that, and for some reason read GFDL as GFTE. I think I've been reading too much wiki :/ -Ezekiel 19:47, 15 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Someday someone on the official wiki was saying "update note and skills description is fact; there's no copyright on facts". But still... -- TůζipVõrζąx Talk 01:54, 16 August 2007 (CDT)


 * You can't copyright facts, but you can copyright the original presentation of those facts, and you can quote copyrighted content without a license or permission as long as it is in accordance with fair use case law. -- Gordon Ecker 02:02, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

New build
well?lol&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:53, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I can see A-rage was changed. Now an enchant that lasts 1 second, when it ends they take X damage. 1/4 sec cast now. What else?&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * &mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 22:00, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmmm..... lotsa Assassin skills were semi-ninjaed....Dirk150 22:04, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Shattering is now ownage. Anet is doing everything to make SP sins used less...lol&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 22:05, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Hopefully A-rage is nonstacking now.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 22:07, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's not, it's an enchantment.  —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ  〚 ₮ /ḉ〛 23:14, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Spirit burn now should deal 5...50 unconditional damage but in game it is still 5...41 :S --Lumenil 23:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * If you mean in the tool kit pop window when you mouse over a skill, its because guild wiki, and the pop window use 0...12, while the official wiki and the updates use 0...15.--Gigathrash 23:59, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, I didn't know, thanks --Lumenil 00:01, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sin skills look sweet now. Wild Strike finally unblockable! yay! Starkers 08:05, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Wild strike has been needing that for a reaaaaly long time now Dirk150 13:39, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, but now they've assured that no one will ever use Fox, even though it has 1⁄2 activation now, since it does less damage and has a longer recharge than Wild. My favorite part of the update is probably the WoP change, now I don't see any reason why a PvE sin wouldn't staple it to his bar right now (btw, I'm renting out industrial strength staple guns, pm me for more info :P ) --Gimmethegepgun 13:47, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

Heh heh, spirit burn actually burns now XD Dirk150 13:40, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Check it out guys:


 * Four second recharge, unblockable, defense-shattering attack chain. Add in a golden lotus for energy recovery, or a golden fang strike for DW. and we're talking some amazing ownage. --Ckal Ktak 16:50, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, Izzy's really trying to push some new 'Sin meta builds out there; SP and Moebius are getting old. Shattering will see some use, as there's always room for a build that rips off two enchantments every 5~ seconds... the recent buff on Golden Phoenix Strike was meant to push AoD builds back into use, possibly.
 * And yeah, 1/2 activation on Fox Fangs is still nothing special. Nine Tail Strike still doesn't get buffed at all either. The Fox lineup needs a bit more to it then "unblockable"... reducing the recharge on Golden Fox Strike was nice, but it still leaves the rest of the chain high and dry. Would be nice to see Nine Tail Strike get the same activation time as Fangs, though... Pulling off your entire chain in little over 1.5 seconds would be nice. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 16:57, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

I posted in the off-hands page: The activation times added to some of the offhands in the latest update are cool, it kinda makes sense from a technical point of view (offhand is a quick, mid-combo attack to carry the rest of the chain), and it makes lead>off>dual combos more attractive. But I think a .5 sec activation time should be added to all offhands that can only be used after a lead. I think this is a step in the right direction to getting people away from typical SP/hex+off>dual>off>dual chains. Maybe even add a modifier so that duals preceded by one of these offhands get their activation reduced to 3/4 or something, making a full lead>off>dual combo feel more fluid/Assassin-y. Thoughts? - Insidious420 15:36, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Req. 8 (and lower) items
Recently I hear those rumours from more and more people that items with less than req. 9 can't be found anymore. Since I often read the update notes here I can't remember anything like that. So where does it come from and is there any truth in it? --Birchwooda Treehug 02:19, 20 August 2007 (CDT)


 * It's probably a rumor some asshole started to try to drive up the cost of a req 8 max weapon he has or something --Gimmethegepgun 03:00, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

4 xunlai boxes?
I never had this before, but when I opened up a xunlai account with my Derv (just bought NF and Fact yesterday) I had 4 storage boxes... update, or just a fact of having all 3 games?
 * You get one for each game. -- Xeon 06:29, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The April 5th, 2007 update made it where you have an additional item storage slot for each campaign you own. Capcom 06:33, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

silent update?
when was the update that added the rat and the slime in kaineng... and fixed the possibility to have several same elite npcs on etnaran isles (ab)? --Birchwooda Treehug 04:11, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It was about 12a.m. PST today, I believe. I just remember being in a Ooze-free Kamadan, going for some quests at around midnight EST, and somewhere after the quests (maybe an hour or three later), having a guildmate shouting "look at these things in Kamadan!". They added a login message as well. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 04:56, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Looks like the Ooze and Rats are in all three main cities -Ezekiel 05:30, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What the heck are you guys talking about. Oozes and rats?  Mind cluing the rest in as to what these are that haven't played since? --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  08:48, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Just go to one of the port cities, you'll see them. They're NPCs. Rat Ooze --Gimmethegepgun 08:58, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

update
they added reconnect button back well i got it

they deleted glad titles, bad update i think
 * they made it so first glad title needs 500 points, but still 1 point in 10 wins o.0
 * what did they change in the EULA?
 * Probably something pertaining to duping :P The Imperialist
 * can someone verify that?

Nerfbat on margonite farming? ive done 4 runs since update, thats about 284 margonites dead in hard mode. Not a single gold drop, only 1-2 grapes. Must they nerf every form of currency income in the game? i mean damn, the only way to make money is vanquish for an hour, to get 1k or so.

All the Lion reserves, Minisrty workers, and Shorewathers have been deleted, please include this in the updates. thx--Patch 18:57, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

I lost my Gladiator Title (Rank 2) with the first update, and the second one restored it...but I went from having zero Faction to having 10,000.

Party window is now fully resizeable, not just vertically.

Theres a map for command post now, when you hit "m" for the world map. Might be so for other dungeon-esque areas, such as undercity or the caverns.--Idiot 23:59, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

charge-back?
What do they mean with "charge-back"? (something to do with the new change of terms).--200.88.135.164 21:14, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * A charge-back is when you pay for something on a credit card, get the item, and then call your credit card company, saying that it was a fraudulent charge. Apparently, it's something botters/scammers overseas do *a lot* of, according to Gaile.

Hard mode unavailable?
This morning I was farming Corsairs outside Zehlon... In hardmode. So appareantly the note isn't true. Ì wonder who added it, and why they thought it was unavailable. Maybe at certain outposts? Copper Elf 01:56, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It has been made unavailable with the most recent change about 15 minutes ago. It's probably to disallow HM for the GW:EN sneek peek. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 01:59, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

That wouldn't make much sense to me... It seems like they would have just disabled hard mode in GW:EN. Maybe they are planning on making it so you have to beat gwen in order to get hard mode? I hope not...
 * When Gaile was online this morning, someone drew attention to a problem with the Hard Mode button. She said it will probably be fixed after the GW:EN event.
 * Confirmed. ANet broadcast a message saying that removing HM was an error that will be fixed. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 03:02, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * After the event? oO A whole weekend without Hardmode? *argh* --Birchwooda Treehug 05:05, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Tha fu...
okay.. I play GW every day (almost) and when I got on this morning (4:30AM EST) I had to download an update (meaning the update was somewhere 12PM - 4AM EST yesterday) and I'm sitting here on guildwiki, and I look back over at GW (6:13) and it says, New Buil of gW is availabe... I'd love to know why they need to update so frequently... -_- Ravien Coromana 05:17, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's demonic! It wont stop! Ravien Coromana 05:28, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Hard Mode
We can enter Hard Mode again, thanks to new build that was implemented few minutes ago. &mdash; Abedeus   05:18, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Lots of people reporting the online store is bugged after this update, seems to be telling people they've bought products they haven't while not allowing access to that content....fixed hard mode...broke store...Anet ftw


 * Yes, ANet FTW, and I don't mean that sarcastically. Ever had the pleasure of playing Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 2142 by EA Games? EVERY patch they release fixes a glitch, and creates a new one. But you need to download these massive patches online via their store program, and they only release patches about once a month, or more. So you get stuck with glitches and exploits for weeks before anything happens. ANet fixes things within hours, and also listens to people when they complain. That right there is why they can count on me to be first in line for GW2, and I've already pre-ordered EotN (which is AWESOME, by the way). --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 06:00, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Hear, hear; QFT and well said -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 06:05, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Amen! ^^ Copper Elf 14:46, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

New skill bar
I've noticed that Henchies in EotN have different/additional skills, anyone want to test other henchies for new skills? <font color="#800000">Desi 19:22, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm pretty certain i saw Devona using None Shall Pass, not got a screenie of it though. Ghostun 21:56, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

New EULA
Anyone else have to agree to another EULA after the Friday update? i had already agreed to one after the other update so is this another revision again?
 * And in today's (Saturday) update i had to agree to a new EULA, after Friday's update.
 * I only had to agree once, after the first update. Did you log into your account any differently then normal or something? I have mine setup to remember my account name and automatically enter my password... maybe if you have your game set up differently, it might not have "remembered" that you accepted the first time. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 05:12, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * My client is set with the account name and pass command. What I'm saying is that after accepting Friday's update, when i was playing today, it showed me to exit the program cause of a new update. So I exited, runned the -image command, then my account, and then it asked me to accept or decline the EULA again.
 * Yeah, I also has to accept another new EULA (And I log in normally) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 06:18, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I had to accept again too. [[Image:User-brains12-scale-sig.png]] brains12 11:44, 25 August 2007 (CDT)