Talk:Splinter Weapon

From USAGE:"For exampe, Barrage may hit three foes, and any foe adjacent to one of those foes will take damage from Splinter Weapon, but a foe adjacent to two foes hit by Barrage will not take the Splinter Weapon damage twice." Why? is it sure? i don't understand how the game could not make the difference from the source of the splinter effect! If 2 characters use splinter weapon and focus on the same target, why the adjacent foes will not take twice the damage??? Again a strange behavior of one of weapon spell skill if it is true.
 * Eh, you misunderstand it. It's not saying 2 character use splinter weaponand focus on same target.  It's saying ONE charactuer use barrage to hit two foes, foe number 3 will only get splinter damage once (from one of the two foes that got hit by ONE character's Barrage), not twice. - 10:47, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

I tested Splinter Weapon in conjunction with Dual Shot, and it still only triggers once. User:Chris with Lime 07:17 24 August 2006 (GMT)

Barrage Note again
I'm under the impression that while using Barrage an hitting n Targets (for n<=6), only n-1 Targets get hit by Splinter weapon. According to the note currently in the article all n Targets should be hit by Splinter weapon (as each is nearby to another being hit by a Barrage arrow). Can anyone confirm this?
 * Couldn't you test this on the training dummies on the isle of the nameless? --68.142.14.60 13:54, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Just tested. I fired at Practice Target, Marks 0 using a non-AP bow. The targets around Practice Target took the extra damage but Practice Target itself did not, despite the fact that the target beside it was also being hit by a Splinter Weapon arrow. Kessel 09:57, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I performed a similar/idential test on the Isle of the Nameless. Firing on the Practice target with Barrage under the effect of Splinter Weapon, the Practice target, the Adjacent to Foe target, and the Adjacent target were all hit by Barrage.  The Practice target and an In the Area target were the only two damaged by Splinter Weapon, however, and each damaged only once, though I think the Practice and In the Area targets both qualify as "adjacent" to the Adjacent target.  It appears that Splinter Weapon only triggered on hitting targets other of the actual selected target, in this case the Practice target.  So, I suppose one could say that, combined with Barrage, Splinter Weapon only damages targets adjacent to targets adjacent to the original target.  (Sorry about the timestamp, but I'm not sure what zone is CDT.) User:Chris with Lime 07:14 24 August 2006 (GMT)
 * "Target ally's next successful attack" only one arrow gets the splinter bonus, and splinter does not deal damage to the target it hits, only adjacent targets. this is the same behevior as Nightmare Weapon--Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 09:09, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Testing suggests that Splinter Weapon can trigger more than once for Barrage, but only affects  arrows hitting targets beyond the initial Barrage target.  So, the original "n-1" note on this subject appears accurate.  I wonder, though, what would happen if, say, you only fired at one target with Barrage, but another moved into Splinter Weapon range between the firing of the arrow and its impact. -User:Chris with Lime  19:27, 24 August 2006 (GMT)
 * One more thing... after observing the effects of other Weapon Spells, I would guess that Splinter Weapon can damage more than one foe in conjunction with Barrage, but will only damage a maximum of one foe among those hit by Barrage itself. So, to get more than one hit out of Splinter Weapon, you'd have to have some foes not adjacent to your actual Barrage target, but adjacent to those foes who are adjacent to the Barrage target.  Confusing?  Yes.  -User:Chris with Lime 20:55, 24 August 2006 (GMT)
 * went out to the isle and tested with barrage. fired about 20 splinters (it's an anoyingly long recycle) from different angles and ranges. splinter never triggered twice. always the first arrow to hit (which was hardly ever the targeted dummy) had the splinter bonus, never varied, never different. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 08:26, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
 * So basically it's like Nightmare Weapon - only the first arrow to hit splinters. It's still a pretty good skill to pair with Barrage, though, since you intend to fire into clumps anyway. Kessel 11:35, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * The reason it hits only one target is the same reason Barrage removes all preperations when you use it: Image what would happen if Barrage didn't remove Ignite Arrows, and 6 targets were all hit by it. The outcome: Everything hit by Barrage ends up taking somewhere around 150 damage or so. --Gimmethegepgun 11:33, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

Silk's change appeared wrong, so I went and did some testing. I could never get splinter to trigger more than once. I spent a while moving minute distances with both the mouse and keyboard to try to get arrows from barrage to hit at apparently the same time, but it always triggered once. I tried standing exactly (as far as I could tell, again with minute adjustments) between two targets, also. I question whether it's possible for hits to be "at the same time" as far as the game is concerned, but it's not likely we'll know either way without divine (developer) knowledge. Testing with things like cyclone axe, hundred blades, or triple chop all triggered only once. These are probably as close to "at the same time" as we'll get. --Fyren 02:49, 17 October 2006 (CDT)



Splinter Activated on two targets, I don't see why everyone is saying it's only activating on one. 12 Chann, 1 Marks Used to Test. Unless you Referring to targets that were hit by an arrow themselves, Then thers only 1. I think...
 * Your picture shows that the skill worked as described. You shot barrage on a bunch of dummies and the closest one to you of that effected/barraged group was hit.  The two dummies around the closest dummy that you hit is then effected by Splinter Weapon but not the target itself.  Splinter Weapon will damage all the adjacent enemies to the target but not the target itself.  Therefore, Splinter Weapon activated once but hit multiple targets as it should.  See below:




 * I edited your pic to illustrate my point. Just remember that Splinter Weapon will not damage the target it effected.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  09:26, 22 December 2006 (CST)
 * It all becomes clear now...thanks =D --Dazra 18:34, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Glad the editeded pic helps out. The skill got me a bit confused when I first used it too.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:43, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I wasn't saying it wouldn't hit more than one target. Silk's old edit said it would trigger multiple times if you hit multiple targets "at the same time."  Not "hit more than one target" but "hit multiple targets multiple times."  --Fyren 21:44, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Which still isn't worded right IMO. Splinter weapon only triggers once and will effect an adjactent area (that may or may not effect multiple foes depending on what is in that area).  The original wording of trigger multiple times makes it sound like it will activate multiple times if there are multiple foes and not effecting an area that may have multiple foes.  I understand the way it was intended but it wasn't a very clear description as it almost implied that it would activate multiple times.  Ug, this skill is so tedious to discuss, why didn't Anet just make it effect the target too?  :p  --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:43, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Scythe
Did this get tested how the scythe and splinter weapon interact? Is it your selected target that it will splinter from or can it be any one of the three targets your able to hit? --Amokk 11:02, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Your first hit target is what I experienced. Acts the same as when shooting with barrage and splinter weapon.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  19:35, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Barrage Note, Yet again
Post-Buff to splinter weapon each hit of barrage counts as an attack.. so it's actualy kind of a viable thing to bring for like.. Tombs and such.--Dazra 19:12, 19 January 2007 (CST)



Oh I hope it stays this way. That would be so nice.--  Vallen Frostweaver  00:48, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * See my thread here about why this skill is broken in PVE (ie, allowing instant aoe kills in many areas): http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10107580


 * Note the picture: http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5558/gw292ns6.jpg


 * It wont stay this way. Ubermancer 02:27, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * One can always hope. ;) --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:50, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Im checking the number on that 16,500 damage and it doesn't pan out. To my understanding the formula for the total would be (giving 12 enemies are within range of ALL shots)


 * (# of arrows * (average bow damage + barrage damage))+((number of possible splinters * Number of affected targets) * Damage)=Total possible damage. Now for the numbers


 * (6*(25+16))+((5*11)* 50) = 2,996 Still pretty nice but nowhere near the 16,500 ~ Zero rogue x 00:45, 28 February 2007 (CST)

With respect to that comment about using this skill in Tombs. I did just that with a modified Order necro build (15 blood, 11 soul reaping, 11 channelling) and watched in amazement as my team wistfully demolished all opposition, even after one of them left part way through. Also, the bosses at the end died in about 6 seconds from the first arrowshot at them, fastest I'd ever seen. Ckal Ktak 23:37, 21 Febuary (GMT)

Skill Change
This Skill has changed. It now affects the next 1...5 attacks with the same damage output. Spcypnts
 * Skill changes are temporary and will be reverted on monday. --Dazra 03:12, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yep, as the article above discusses. Let me tell you though, it was amazing in TotPK to see my guildie group eliminate an entire mob in one barrage even if we did die on the last map load in that plopped us into a huge aggro. ^_^ --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:49, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Isn't it permenant now? I've been using this in the Tombs for a little while now, and it's awesome. You can put out a lot of damage, especially with an orders necro backing you up. ~Avatarian 86
 * It doesn't do more damage than a normal 15-16MMS barrager. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 14:05, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * it increases dps alot if you attack multiple foes
 * Adjacent –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:00, 26 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, they need to be adjacent but Barrage + Splinter Weapon + >1 foe in adj range = Splinter Weapon damage on both foes. The more foes in that range the more damage they take as it then activates on each one hit.  And yes, it can definfitely do more damage than a 15-16MMS barrager.  You can also have 15-16 in MMS and high ranks in Channeling and combine them.  Energy isn't that big an issue that you need to have all the rest in expertise but some helps.  Plopping Splinter Weapon on a group of Barraging rangers in tombs on our way to the next spawn spot has yeilded instant death for a group of foes on the first barrage.  It's a nice skill and not one to just overlook though it has it's weaknesses as others do.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  10:09, 26 February 2007 (CST)
 * I was talking normal PvE use. I'd rather stick troll unguent on my R than splinter weapon. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:58, 26 February 2007 (CST)
 * Really? I don't even use TU anymore these days if I can help it.  I just make sure not to get in a situation where I'll need it.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:06, 26 February 2007 (CST)
 * I still think rangers should be the resilient line between your tanks and casters; as such I prefer to be able to heal myself a bit rather than to have a healer spend 5 energy. But, my pov might not be the best one to take into consideration here, as I don't use my R for damage in pve anymore anyway. I leave damage to E's and the likes and take on interrupting as my task in stead :) –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 11:32, 26 February 2007 (CST)

Does the Skill end if you hit 1...4 times?
I was just wondering...
 * Um, yes. It does.  Did you expect it to continue?  I don't know why your asking I guess.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:24, 27 February 2007 (CST)

I was thinking of combining it with Spirit's Strength.
 * I don't see why you couldn't use them together. The good thing is that Splinter Weapon recharges in 5 seconds so you can cast it again once you've hit the max number of times.  As a side note please sign your posts with ~ Thanks.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  11:31, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Because spirit strength needs a weapon spell on to work. And if you wanna know who i am that badly, you can always check history.--Rickyvantof 11:34, 27 February 2007 (CST)
 * I've tried this combo, and it works quite well for grouped foes. My one recommendation is to carry another longer-lasting weapon spell to cast when picking off (non-grouped) single foes.  It gets annoying to have to recast it every 4-5 hits when it is doing NO extra damage to the single target. -Spot 11:39, 27 February 2007 (CST)

I was kinda hoping it would last, even if you hit more than the 4/5 times, so I won't have to take any other long lasting Weap spell. But seems like i should.--Rickyvantof 13:34, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Target Ally = Spirits Allowed?
I am at work else I would try it myself, but does anyone know if this can be cast on spirits? Im thinking with its long duration, setting up some spirits all with this on them and then painful bond...ouch. Throw in some traps around the spirits and you have the makings for a Rt/R farm build if my imagination is correct. --Tom128 14:47, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

nope, just got home and tested. I R Sad.

Added Breaker Hollow trainer
I can confirm this skill is available at Breaker Hollow, unless I missed a mistake I might've made. Otherwise, I just unlocked it there (never unlocked skill before, PvP or PvE). --NYC Elite 12:34, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Hundred Blades
After the multiple attacks thing, I'm going to go test how it works with Hundred Blades. Might make that skill useful again, seeing as how Sun and Moon Slash outdoes it now... --Phydeaux 22:12, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd assume it works, though you'd run through the number of attacks with just two foes. Though I could see it now, W/Rt using Splinter Weapon and Hundred Blades to "hit their weak point for massive damage!" --Kale Ironfist 00:17, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Flip them over first, then you can hit their weak point for massive damage.--[[Image:Melandru's Shot.jpg|19px]]Enigma 07:34, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Echo Mark of pain anyone?
MoP cast on 2 targets: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2350/mopqw3.jpg And here it is on 3 targets: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1174/mop2yn1.jpg P A R A S I T I C 19:50, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

Duration
At 16 Channeling and 13 Spawning Power, This skill lasts for 79.38 seconds(63*1.26). At a 5 second recharge time and 1 second cast time, you can keep this skill up indefinately on 13.23 people(if they don't attack of course, math-> 79.38/6 durr) I like these numbers. -Anonymous
 * if you're not attacking then why would you keep it up? I can understand putting it on everyone before a fight, but maintaining it constantly (unless expecting a sudden attack) seems a waste. -Ezekiel 04:39, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

This skill was nerfed, now only last 20 seconds.
 * More if you have Spawning Power but not much -Ezekiel 23:16, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Heroes casting Splinter Weapon.
If I equip Splinter Weapon in ranger hero, she spam it in me (caster) and never use it in herself. Curiously if I equip Splinter Weapon in a necro hero, he spam it only on himself, never on me. lol? or what the hell? - NeHoMaR  06:41, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Hero seem to do that with all Weapon spells. Try loading them with Nightmare Weapon, Vital Weapon, Weapon of Remedy, Weapon of Fury, Vengeful Weapon...etc, they will usually use them on Casters. Dunno why... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:26, 8 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I use two Splinter Barrage heroes, works great they only spam Splinter Weapon on each other, just not themselves... 86.132.240.139 07:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Bad description or skill change?
"Target ally's next successful 1...4 attacks deal 5...41 damage to all adjacent foes." Didn't this use to say something like, "...to all foes adjacent to their target"? This sounds like everyone adjacent to the guy with splinter weapon takes the damage, rather than everyone adjacent to his target, which would really suck for my splinter barrager... --Tbostephen 06:13, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

Update
Uh... what changed? *noob* Zeek Aran 02:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Before, it hit everything, rather than 3. Splinter barraging is nerfed...Swift Thief 02:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Ugh. First they nerfed the duration to 20 seconds, now they change the number of hits to just 3. On the plus side, annoying monsters like Wardens and Simians got a bit less powerful. But on the big minus side, there's not much reason to Splinter Barrage anymore. May as well use Volley, damn it >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:22, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well...good job dumb (DickNet) you have nerfed the best skill ever, now you made the Turai Procession impossible to complete and barred me from getting 200+ skill points for my ranger who is going for elite skill title.--Dark Paladin X 02:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Go to Guru and whine please... but, you SHOULD be able to do the same things without ONE imbalanced skill. Zeek Aran 02:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * *just read your post on guru* LAWL Zeek Aran 03:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You never need 200 points to start capping anyway, since it's 15k for a skill point and 5k per cap (not even including killing enemies) Not to mention the double weekend now that means you get 2 skill points for 3 caps. -Ezekiel 03:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * oh noes! i b not farm gud nemore! i b brokez! Lawl --Blue.rellik 03:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If I ever need skill points, it's far easier to solo farm some of the starter areas in hard mode, anyway, which is 20k exp every 15-20 minutes when you get a good run down (about 100 kills). I imagine a good trapping build would work for a ranger.  My Ele racked up 400 skill points and about 100 tomes that way (mostly Warrior, Ranger, and Paragon). --Falseprophet 15:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * People start freaking out and yelling NERF NERF ... this is still an evaluation time, for all we know, they may change this back. (Probably not, but its possible ;D) [[Image:Isk8.png]]Isk8 03:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They reverted spirit exhaustion awhile back, so maybe they'll be smart and revert this. I'm not saying that Splinter was a MUST HAVE skill but just nerfing it because people were using it in PvP(more importantly because of VoD grouping) Fucking Anet, please realize that not everyone plays god damn pvp. 68.39.149.149 08:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rangers in high-end PvE were almost exclusively Splinter/Barrage combos. I think this is a step in the right direction. [[Image:SnagretpuddingSig.png|19px]] Snagretpudding 08:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So... what can we use now? Splinter Barrage got me through some tough missions in Nightfall and Prophecies... Now I have to go back to normal Barrage or try using Broad Head Arrow + Volley -.- &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:Sandstorm.jpg|19px]] 09:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Mark of Pain --Blue.rellik 09:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Nerf: assume a group of 8 enemies. You hit 7 with Barrage. 5 hits splinter. Every splinter does 53 to all enemies. Thats 424 damage per splinter. 5 splinters make 2120 damage spread out over 8 enemies. Post-nerf: same 8 enemies, same 7 hits. 5 hits splinter. Every splinter does 53 to 3 enemies, thats 159 damage per splinter, 795 damage in total. The difference diminishes with smaller groups. Against 4 enemies, there's no difference due to the nerf. Note that using Volley against groups larger than 3 will decrease damage further. A.Saturnus 10:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Snagretpudding is right, splinter barrage was far too powerful before -- the aoe spike dmg on a single barrage was ridiculous. Before people start complaining, they oughta remember that splinter weapon originally used to trigger only once on barrage; it wasn't until later that they changed the original behavior. And if it's PvE people are worried about, there have been so many buffs to barrage that complaining about splinter getting (rightfully) toned down seems a little out of place. Take the "I Am the Strongest!" / Ebon Battle Standard of Honor combo for instance -- +35 armor-ignoring damage to each arrow of barrage, or basically orders times two. 'Nuff said. --Exa 16:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Rangers have no reason to complain about anything until Expertise is scaled in line with other primaries. With the demise of Soul Reaping rangers inherited the title of "greatest passive energy management" in the entire game bar none. This combo was highly overpowered and nerfed accordingly. To make an even stronger case, orders takes 2 people minimum and for the necro doing it constant spam and health sacrifice. This combo did more damage and required less upkeep not to mention half the people...yes its a tad overpowered. In my opinion, any time we have noobs screaming for a copy/paste of a particularly overused build...its nerf time. 67.191.245.177 21:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Leadership > Expertise. No debate. A decent paragon never has energy problems --Blue.rellik 03:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Plenty to debate with that actually. Leadership takes energy to make energy, Vocal Minority or Well of Silence means no paragon in house primary energy management...but surely i don't have to remind you of that.  Whereas Expertise can't be shutdown and its checked before a skill is even used not on the condition of a skill ending.  I know what you'll say here..."but what about Quickening Zephyr or Atrophy surely that will counter Expertise!"  yeah but it would counter Leadership as well making the paragon unable to spam shouts/chants as easily and spirits make easy targets...you can't kill a well and expertise is unconditional cost reduction.  In the absence of oldstyle Soul Reaping, Expertise is the number one passive energy management in the game, keyword is bolded.  67.191.245.177 05:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You arguement fails, Vocal Minority and Well of Silence are rarely seen in the game, even in NF they're only in a few places. Well of silence fails because it's studily easy to move out of. Your arguement fails because of Go For The Eyes and to a lesser extent, Watch Yourself, both cheap shouts that keep the energy full. Your arguement fails because with most shouts and 10 leadership, 5 energy shouts are free. Your arguement fails because paragons are the one always being nerfed because they're too damn broken and Expertise is rarely touched. Play the game --Blue.rellik 05:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Expertise is nice, I mean, cost reductions are just great. But leadership can be chained to generate endless mana with a few simple skills and as a Paragon you'll be using those skills anyway. -Ezekiel 05:33, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow... They just nerfed one of the most popular builds... Not to mention one of the most popular farming builds that CANNOT be used by bots. GG ANet. You just dashed my dreams of my Rit going for an easy Legendary Survivor title 69.235.199.30 05:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That was a fast response, but since I have your attention I would point out once again that sitting back and doing nothing i.e. "passive" gain is always superior to having to take action to see any effect. Soul Reaping's effect is an example of a passive effect, as a necro you could do absolutely nothing and still gain energy.  Expertise operates in the same manner albeit a reduction before you use a skill.  Leadership requires you to actually use a chant/shout,  then and only then you'll see the return...its not a passive primary hence my bolding and emphasis for distinction.  The gain is hardly infinite, any adrenal shutdown skills stop adrenal chants/shouts and there is a hard cap based on rank in Leadership.  Paragons don't get to run nearly as unchecked as the two of you seem to think.  67.191.245.177 05:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You know nothing of the game. Who the freaking cares if it's passive or not? Shouts are some of the best buffs in the game simply because they're un-stripable. Use a shout or chant? Are you even playing Guild Wars? What kind of paragon doesn't bring a shout or chant? And use it to get the return? What stupid logic is that? If you're not using shouts and chants then you don't need the energy anyway. Hardly infinite? Are you crazy or are you just lying? Have you even seen a paragon packing both go for the eyes and watch yourself? They can pump those out while they're killing things AND it benefits the entire party, 10 in leadership is a common number since it returns 5 energy which is spammed. Adrenaline shut down? Again what game are you playing? Soothing Images is the most common adrenaline shut down in PvE and even then only a small % of areas have monsters that use it. Do you know why they don't run unchecked? Because the general opinion (AKA the stupid retarded idiot masses who double-digit IQs) think they suck....which is wrong since ask any good player and they'll tell you that they're one of the best classes in the game. --Blue.rellik 06:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rellik, you've been warned several times about this: NPA. Grow up, calm down.  Humor me...who is the better Barrager (the hypothetical difference between 12 and 16 marks is a negligible 4 damage) an R/P with the cost reduction up front who can spam GFTE...or a P/R who has "infinite" energy due to that same skill GFTE.  Provided what you've said is all the word of God here I would be lead to believe a P/R (ignoring the 12 spec cap to marks) would always be superior with a slight damage hit due to their "infinite" energy creating capacity.  Lets not forget this reduction applies to all attack skills in the game...just trying to keep you honest. 67.191.245.177 15:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Pfffft. What the freaking hell? You're basing passive energy management because of a single build? Also who the hell cares if it reduces attack costs, rangers are the ones that have the insane costing attacks (aka Concussion Shot), pretty much all warrior and paragon attacks are either adrenaline or 5 energy. Never mind the fact that expertise only REDUCES the cost for certain things, NOT give the energy back. Who cares if something costs 5-10 energy when you can get it back easily? You never ackowledge the simple that that a paragon with 10 leadership means all adrenaline shouts GIVE energy and all 5 energy shouts are FREE. Tell me, are there many ranger skills that makes things free? Maybe but a ranger needs to bring some special skills to do it, for a paragon the stuff they gives them insane energy are good skills that they always take. Go for the eyes is to a paragon like dshot is to a ranger, except one gives energy gain, lots of energy gain. --Blue.rellik 03:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Resetting indent...Go try speccing Marksmanship to 12 on an R/P and a P/R, only 2 skills on each bar Barrage and GFTE, spec their primaries unrealistically to 16 (take 1 person in for the para to have leadership work on to simulate a tank. note: I was even more generous and included 2 people) and try it. I am removing all variables except for their primaries and for the purpose of the test factoring in that Paragons are midline and their shouts/chants generally effect melee characters more often than casters in the backline unless they are going full support or doing a lot of running. I promise you that the Ranger has more staying power because they simply have a more efficient unconditional primary. 2e cost Barrage with a 3in3 basic energy regen pays for itself no matter how much you spam it. The paragon has to wait for adrenaline to build, all while spamming a 5e skill, then wait for the shout/chant effect to wear off, then they gain 8 energy (due to r16 leadership 1 target) + 2in3 basic energy regen. As for Concussion Shot...its one of the very few non-elite daze skills in the game so sure its expensive but on a Ranger (its intended usage) with a modest investment into Expertise you can cut that 25e cost in half, pretty remarkable really and its clearly done this way to make it only viable for primary Rangers. 67.191.245.177 15:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Something else about Concussion Shot..Marks to 10, Expertise to 12: Energizing Winds+Concussion Shot point for point a cheaper equally efficient Broad Head Arrow that doesn't burn the elite slot. In fact Concussion even with the skill recharge increase of 25% due to winds is still just over 1/3 the time of BHA and has the exact same daze length.  67.191.245.177 15:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to smash your illogical brain in. Report that. How the freaking hell can you make any damn freaking comparasins becasue of one damn ranger elite? Is that the only damn stupid reasoning? Is it? Is that all you have? There's more to the damn game than spamming barrage and gfte. How the hell does that prove expertise > leadership? Honestly, how the freacking hell did your brain bring up that conclusion becasue of ONE DAMN ELITE? I seriously have around 500000 rebuttals to your arguement but I'm too damn flabbergusted at your highly illogical arguement which your preach as law. Seriously what the hell? Are you telling me that a ranger only spams barrage? DId you freaking forget that they have other freaking skills? Did you realize that THEY HAVE NO WAY TO GET THE DAMN FREAKING ENERGY BACK? DID YOU REALIZE THAT? LEADERSHIP GIVES ENERGY BACK WHICH IS WHY IT IS CURRENTLY THE BEST PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE BAR NONE. Am I angry? No, not really, I'm always like that. Right now I'm more confused that you are so blind. Seriously what the hell? I mean most of a paragon's skill bar costs either NOTHING or GIVES ENERGY (I'm bolding it so you can see it clearly), a ranger's skill bar aside from the occasional signet or adrenaline skill COSTS ENERGY. No matter what skill you bring, it will cost energy. No buts or ifs. It will cost you something and it's because of your arguement fails. Expertise REDUCES costs of skills, Leadership GIVES ENERGY. Giving Energy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Reducing costs. Also your arguement for Concussion shot fails, BHA gives UNCONDITIONAL dazed, concussion needs to hit a spell. Both of your points suck, if you're bringing EW then you're probably screwing your party members up. Fail --Blue.rellik 03:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Holy shit... --Gimmethegepgun 03:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late comment, but had to say something. Blue.rellik is right. Leadership is the best primary, you spam Barrage and GFTE in a B/P team, every hit would charge GFTE (If you hit 4 people...) and that would make Barrage free too. Energy Lost from barrage = 5. Energy gained from Leadership = 5. Total loss = 0. You spam Barrage and you'll run out of energy, it may be 2 energy and you may have 3 pips but it'll wear you down, whilst it can't with the Paragon. And why the heck would one elite make Expertise better than leadership!? Blue.rellik's points ftw! --[[Image:Elisa Angelstine sig.png|25px]]Elisa Angelstine (talk) 09:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you are not taking any teammates (purely to spite leadership) then you also need to make it only hit 1 target in which case barrage loses all edge. Barrage only gets powerful if there are several enemies, more enemies = more hits = more damage. A paragon can act in the same way that an orders necro does, more teammates = more buffs = more damage. If you want to compare damage output (which is unrealistic to do in anything more than a vauge sense) you need to take into account that a good paragon makes an entire party more powerful. The other thing that you aren't taking into account is what happens when you have more than one paragon, or even anyone else using shouts (charge on henchies for example). Expertise is a self targetting bonus only, leadership can be triggered by allies. Even a simple skill like Anthem of Flame becomes a powerful energy gain. Let's say 12 leadership, cost 5, gain 6 (if you think the party will be spread beyond effective range then you're in a bad party, they should be at least within for the monk's sake. Excusing obsidian tanks) but for the second paragon it's a straight +6. If both Paragons use it as soon as it's ready that's 14e/10s, bringing their e regen slightly more than double a ranger's. For a ranger to even equal that they could need to have expertise 13 and even then their skills are restricted, while a Paragon's are not. I'm not saying expertise is bad. But Leadership is insane when done right -Ezekiel 01:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Lulz, you nerfed mah splinter weaponz, I nao quit GW because i cant farm anymore or get survivor titlez gfg. also im also too distracted by this nerf that i fail to see all the other ranger builds I could use. 76.90.54.231 05:42, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * With intelligent agro control, no other ranger build can touch the damage splinter build can deal. Got a build that can kick this one's ass? Why not share it? 69.235.199.30 11:28, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

That's the point, the build kicks everything's ass. In fact, it still does, it's just a tiny bit slower and balanced. There was no other build in the entire game that came close to the destructive power of a Splinter Barrage team. It doesn't kill PvE when you allow people to take other builds. Before this nerf, your ranger will never complete Urgoz's Warren without running a splinter barrager and now different teams pop up. Rangers are hardly worthless and are still recognized for thier abilities to interupt key skills and provide partywide defense with traps. Your ranger is not dead, this is not the end of the world. 65.30.20.38 15:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

This nerf sux, period! Ritualists will be declined by every party for Duncan the Black now =P --Soulflame 16:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * i see all these people whining about how rangers are worthless now and why is that people? rangers wernt nerfed ritualists where so a few rangers used a rit skill doesnt mean rangers got nerfed rits did so stop whining about your rangers and find yourself a new build better yet cry for the rts that got a nerf (not rlly big nerf tho)
 * I agree about the ranger thing, absolutely. Not about it not beeing a big nerf though, it´s a huge nerf. This skill was certainly overpowered to the max before the update, but it´s still a huge nerf. Even though, didnt this skill start with 2 adjacent foes, then buffed to all adjacent foes and now nerfed to 3 adjacent foes? In that case it´s really a buff =D --Soulflame 22:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I play a PvE Mesmer. I make fun of everyone complaining about their favorite builds getting nerfed. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 20:45, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

well thats umm nice?


 * Ok I really hate this nerf. Splinter weapon is used for turai procession farming and I am mad.  Not only people wont able to get survivor, but elite skill title as well.  Do you know how much guts it take for to farm exp for elite skill title track.  A  LOT!! and the procession splinter farm is the answer.  I'm currently holding a protest against the nerf at great temple of bathazaar in int. dis 1.  Use fistshake to support the protest.--Dark Paladin X 22:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OR you could just find a different farming place. For experience only you can farm nearly everywhere.  OR you could just do WHAT EVER OTHER PLAYER EXCEPT YOU FARMERS does, and get exp from QUESTS (gasp), adventuring (gasp gasp), or DOING MISSIONS (NOOOOOO! /darthvader)--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]igathrash  Talk^Cont 22:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I got Legendary Survivor on my monk, I got that title after completing a bunch of quests and all 3 campaigns right before Shiro. So getting survivor doesnt have anything to do with this quest and it can be achieved without farming, just play smart and strategic!! as for Skill Hunter.. My ritualist got that title just the other week and I didnt even know about the Turais Procession farm until I read this page... --Soulflame 22:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you people get it? Turai's Procession was the only spot in the game to farm. It's not like he could get exp in a million other ways. You should check your facts before you post. --Macros 22:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm not going to do The Jade Arena as an alternative (besides, turai procession farm has been proven to give more exp than Jade Arena in  a shorter time.  I don't use splinter in PvP, but I use it alot for my ranger in PvE (particularly the elite mish urgoz something) --Dark Paladin X 22:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What? people still use splinter barrage? Geez, I thought I killed them all ages ago. quit whining, go frenzy healsig or something. At best, they'll revert it and get a few laughs reading this page. At worst....I can't think of anything that's really that bad nerfing splinter wep. Flechette 01:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I´m gonna say something to end this discussion: Ahubba shaboka schmum schmum! --Soulflame 03:00, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem with ANet is that they dangle such nice carrots like Splinter Barrage and (at its best) SF spam and then when they take it away, wham! People complain and hold protests...I think they should know by now that It is equally bad to over-buff a skill as it is to over-nerf it.

Speaking of Splinter Weapon, aside from Battle of Turai's Procession I actually didn't use it anywhere. That quest is harder now, but still not impossible...there are many other nice AoE farm combos possible. (T/C) 06:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

if you need to do turais procession to get survivor then you dont derserve the dam title its for people who can fight and not die not people who can hit once run like little girls (no offence to any little girls) and then hit again.

It was extremely common in places like Slavers Exile, FoW, UW etc. etc. This particular build was pretty pervasive at least as much as Obsidian Tank. The good news about this nerf (yes there is good news) is that it will force people to think outside the box again for build construction. I stand by my earlier comment, any time we have people screaming "ping teh ownzor build for me plzzzz plzzzz!!!" in districts then its being overused and something should be done. Copy/Paste syndrome is the death of creative build making. Besides they gave us Volley in EoTN, and honestly that skill is not bad. Something else to think about here...if changing 1 skill (splinter weapon) brought down the entire build...maybe it wasn't really that great to begin with? As far as survivor goes...uh you're rangers...go trap the Stygian Veil? Thats like 300+ per kill down there and incredibly easy to do once you understand the setup. 67.191.245.177 14:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I've tested Splinter Barrage since the nerf in Slavers with a guildmate -- I don't think half the mindless PUGs who only want SH on the eles even realize it's been nerfed judging from the number of join requests I got -- and while no, I don't have a line of numbers all the way across my screen that takes off a huge chunk from the groups like I used to, it still does a reasonable bit of damage. Not sure why everyone's so pissed. It's nowhere near as powerful as it was, but it doesn't utterly suck. And let's face it, what people really want rangers in slavers for has everything to do with Frozen Soil and Winter for the Forgewight. -Ruse 02:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

That's just the thing, it's no longer Uber-Powerful, Pwn-All material. It's just...good. It's a big blow for anyone who didn't know how/couldn't run anything else. My only big grievance was that solo Battle of Turai's Procession farming is pretty much dead. (T/C) 02:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty of other effective builds out there; I haven't used Splinter Barrage in over a month. Try Burning Arrow/Steam. :D -Felix Omni 06:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)