Talk:Zaishen Challenge Quest/1

These are cool Zenus1 04:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

This new 4th year anniversary update is all a bunch of garbage, basically what ArenaNet has done here is take recycled gameplay and packaged it in a brand new cardboard box. It sucks, guild wars sucks, arenanet REALLY sucks, i mean come on how hard is it to come up with something new once and a while? People need to wake up and realize how crappy this game is, i know i did.


 * Then would you kindly go elsewhere? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I personally enjoy the additions, and they have actually made me start playing Guild Wars much more actively again. However, they could've done a lot better with the free storage.  Currently my account is locked from getting it because I "used the coupon too many times." -Phazor 19:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, I just tried again right now and the website was 100x faster (literally) and it worked. -Phazor 19:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's actually great to see ANet adding some kind of incentive to take part in old content. That is one of my biggest problems with WoW, once a new expansion arrives all old content is forever ignored by the majority of players. There's probably more content new player will not see than they actually WILL see now. 193.44.6.146 15:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Challenge Quest = daily guild event. :) -- ◄mendel► 20:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Are we adding each day's quests as their own article? If so, where do they go? Segick 21:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That would seem pretty insane. I know that I did see a chart that had a history of the quests, which I think is a lot more efficient. Plus, the daily quests are basically missions/PvP/bosses that already have articles of their own with instructions on how to complete them.-Phazor 21:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should add little notes to those articles detailing what some of the "bonuses" are? I mean, I know that one of the bonuses for the Blacktide Den thing was the actual bonus, but I have no idea what the other one was. Qing Guang 00:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The pattern so far is that the Bounty has one Bonus (kill in HM), and the Mission has 2 bonus objectives (get Masters/Bonus, and play in HM). I do however not know wether the HM quest bonus requires Masters in HM... I think not. Mr J 19:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Archive past quests
Since the history of the quests will get long, why not start a past quests page and place all the info there? -- WhiteAsIce 23:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest that the Zaishen Challenge article should be remade to a generic description of what the challenges involve (play a mission, hunt a boss, fight some PvP) along with some generic tips on getting Zaishen Bonuses (mission bonus and hard mode completion can be done on seperate runs). The history of which missions/bosses/PvP arenas were targetted by Zaishen Challenges can then be distributed among the trivia sections of the articles for each individual target. (Blacktide Den - On Apr24 2009, this mission was a Zaishen Challenge, offering XYZ rewards) Do we really NEED to collect the history of EVERY daily Zaishen Challenge change into an archive that will just become larger and larger over time? Mujaki 23:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Preparing for Many ZCQs
I'm hoping a power-wikian can design a set of condition templates that helps us keep consistent and professional track of the various Zaishen Challenge Quests (ZCQs). The required features might include:
 * Add an entry 1x to populate both by-date, by-type tables, and a /Research table (for determining patterns);
 * Alphabetical sorts within tables;
 * Auto wiki-links (if you spell the quest names correctly);
 * Calculate max rewards per day and per ZCQ;
 * Auto distribution counts to the research table.

Maybe something like,
 * { { ZCQ Entry | Title= | Type= | Date= | RewardXP= | RewardGold= | RewardFactionAmt= | RewardFactionType= | ZoinBase = | ZoinBonus1= | ZoinBonus2= | RequiredGame= } }

This would also allow to keep the main article current without additional edits, if we decided (for example) to only display a week's worth of ZCQs (in case there are dozens or hundreds of permutations). Feel free to amend the feature list above if you like the idea and prefer a different implementation. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been thinking about that as well. If the info that is now in the tables is the one we deem essential (i.e. is that final?), there's going to be an infobox for use on the /Zaishen Quest pages, and its contents can be collected and tabulated by DPL, which would keep some of these tables current automatically, and also allow to only display, say, the 7 latest ones. People knowledgeable in the ways of DPL could then craft queries over larger sets of data. -- ◄mendel► 10:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Bonus icon
I'd like to have a nice icon for the bonus rewards (in place of *) that could also be used for teh quest pages. Suggestions? -- ◄mendel► 10:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest a mudkip icon.--Darksyde  03:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I second that notion. Ladies, Gentlemen... Let it be done. -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 23:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Quest time switch over
Here it states that they switch over at 12 pacific and I'm im sure that this might be wrong. I watch all the quest switch over at 12 EST which is 9am Pacific. I'll watch it again today and reply back with what I have.--24.126.8.174 11:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok I wasn't crazy the Quests switch over at 9am PST 12 EST the table needs to be fixed. --24.126.8.174 16:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Updated this page to correct information that daily quests were updated at noon pst to noon est.

I have verified this information.


 * Quest switchover time at 16:00 UTC. Verified. So timetable is wrong. 95.33.125.220 14:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this really true? If so, the switchover time varies? Does it depend on district? Weekday? -- ◄mendel► 20:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Noon Eastern is currently accurate, but it would be better to say "9am Pacific" since Guild Wars announces its times in Pacific Time. Gets confusing to see GWiki starting to use Eastern Time Zones as well. Galkraft 16:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

tomorrow is the day
where we will find out if it's a weekly repeat. Leaning towards it, there's not many PVP modes left. -- Viruzzz 10:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think and very much hope like hell that it's a weekly repeated thing. Because a everlasting Fireworks is 50 -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]]  † F1 ©  Talk  10:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's still 10 weeks :) Viruzzz 10:59, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * PVP will have to repeat at some time, and so will the missions; eventually all of them will have been completed and either they stop, or they repeat. It's also possible that they will repeat, but not be in the same order.

History
It strikes me that at some point this page will grow much too large, and be rather impossible to handle, what with the "new row to every chart every day" thing going on. Wouldn't it be best to separate the charts into a different page, linked here, and have this page only store the current day's challenges? It would be a much more efficient way to organize this page. 208.106.117.133 16:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Very much agreed. With close to 100 missions is the 4 campaigns, this will grow quite large (not to even mention the number of bosses in the game...) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we please cross that bridge when we come to it? For now, the way we usually do it (e.g. on game updates, news and such) is to archive when things get too big; there are also technical features under discussion that, if implemented, do away with the need to update this page at all because it'll be automated (from the quest pages). If it's not broken, why fix it? -- ◄mendel► 22:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with discussing a fix for a problem that is likely to come, nobody's changing anything yet. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Totals ?
Do we really want the total copper you can get in the tables ? Getting Headaches from calculating/searching awards. Unless someone can make a template out of it, I don't want too recalculate/puzzle everyday-- -- ( talk )
 * I don't see it being very useful, either, more like a trivial statistic, since most people play on more than 1 character, and do many of the quests selectively. The total for the day is ok, but the grand totals are kind of useless.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Somebody found them useful. Put a date on the line somewhere to show when they were last updated and let who wants to keep them current. I think once the totals have reached 7500 it'll become pointless, or when (if) we automated it. -- ◄mendel► 22:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This was more important when the coins were not tradeable between characters. Automating the calculation and possibly separating it from the main list into a note like "So far a single character could have earned a maximum of X copper coins, which translates to Y silver coins or Z gold coins" would probably be better.  Right now it has to be recalculated manually every day, and is losing its informational value with multiple characters consolidating their coins.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Another thing that would make it easier (and less susceptible to errors) is making a template the calculates the conversion for you, and all you have to put in is the copper coin total. I think that's within your realm of expertise, no? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the total is marginally useful in that so many people have been complaining about how long it might take to earn an Elite Equipment Pack. So, I agree with Mendel: let's wait until it reaches at least 7500 (per category?).


 * I also agree with Rose that it would be helpful to have a Zoin converter, akin to Template:Cost. (I'm willing to give it a whack, however I'm sure someone could do it faster. The syntax gives me headaches, so it could be a while.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 23:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * imo track to 7500 for people who cba to play multiple characters for a little trivia :P--164.116.47.250 14:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and show relation of PvE vs. PvP Zoins ;-) -- ◄mendel► 20:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * PvP: Always more Zoins, much easilier repeatable. PvE: One run-through is enough to get it over with. Something like that? ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Apart from being a headache, I think the total is somewhat meaningless, as players are in no way capped to that number when farming coins. You can, after all, do each PvE quest once per characted and each PvP quest as many times as you'd like. Owoc 20:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Template:Cost gave me headaches as well, that's why I rewrote it, see User:M.mendel/Templates/cost. -- ◄mendel► 22:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Obvious Question
So this might be a stupid question, but I've noticed that if you obtain a quest and don't do it on the day that it is assigned, it stays in your quest log after the quest switches on the next day. So if you do the quest that was assigned say, 2 days ago, would you still be able to get the rewards for it? 76.100.249.38 20:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)Razaac
 * Yes. You can have up to 3 quests in each category in your quest log, and do them whenever you like.  You will not be able to obtain a 4th quest of the same type until you complete or abandon an older one.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Tip for the Day: If you notice a Zaishen Challenge which you are likely to complete without making a special effort to do so, or are likely to enjoy, remember to take it on each of your characters, who can then complete it at their leisure.
 * Eh? Eh? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I used to do... Each of my chars has 3 of each quest type in their log, and when I saw an easier one, I'd abandon one and take the new one.  But so far I don't think I'll be doing any of them except on my necro and ele, because the rewards are puny without HM or bonuses, and it's not even worth my time to login as each character and take the quest for some unknown time in the future for a measly 10 coins, unless it's the Great Northern Wall or Chahbek Village...  I've given up on the idea for now. :P Maybe later when I feel like playing those chars again. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * o.O So... it should or should not be a tip of the day? *shrugs* *backs away* A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't see why you can't put it there, anyway. I just said what I do. :P  Someone else may find this interesting/useful. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The casual PvP quests (RA, AB, Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood) are all worth taking on a bunch of characters for later completion. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But also don't worry too much about missing them, as they are bound to repeat frequently due to limited number of PvP modes. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll take that as a no. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Repeats
Let's say I have both GvG quests, which are exactly the same, and I go into a GvG. If I win, do I get both quests filled out or just one? 70.30.25.226 04:00, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It is the same quest. So, if you have the first one, you can't take a second one, it does not offer you a quest for that day.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's wrong. Based on my experience with the Heroes' Ascent quest, if you leave the first in your log and then pick up the quest again when it repeats (after it cycles through the 6-9 quest types for Combat, for example), you get both quests in your log. Upon completing part of an objective for the quest - say, winning 1 Heroes' Ascent battle - it applies to both quests. Thus, you can get up to 3 copies of the same quest, then fulfill the primary and bonus objectives. Then, talking to the rewards NPC three times, you can get the rewards for each copy of the quest. [[Image:Entropic.png]] (Talk) 04:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then how do you explain the combat poster not giving me the second HA quest when I had the old one in my quest log and only 2 combat quests total, with room for a third? It didn't even have the exclamation point.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * dunno, he offered me two HA quests at the same time. It may be a bug or something.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 15:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't able to get a repeat quest today with the JQ quest, just to confirm. Mlandry 01:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The last update fixed the "two identical quests" bug. Can't do it anymore. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the May 7 update that made the combat quests repeatable disabled the ability to have 2 identical quests in the log that update simultaneously. It's a shame. [[Image:Entropic.png]] (Talk) 17:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Missing entries on 3/05/09
The Zaishen Mission and Bounty are missing for this date. Any particular reason why? Also, what are the question marks next to the total copper coins count for the same date?AMFan 10:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Calculating totals sucks
I updated the totals, but it took forever because you have to visit each quest page in order to add up the totals. so I made a page for tracking it a little bit quicker, feel free to use it: Link - Viruzzz 13:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, these numbers are already available in the "history" tables in the lower half of the page, from where they could be copied into a spreadsheet. But yeah, I hear your pain. -- ◄mendel► 19:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I told y... err... *cough* :) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You told me to do away with those tables? -- ◄mendel► 21:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember mentioning this calculation stuffs is too much of a pain (with lots of room for errors) for its usefulness, which will run out as soon as that number hits 7.5k anyway. Anything beyond that will be extremely tedious.  Or are we tracking it until it hits the El. fireworks box?  And where's my zcoins converter? XD (I don't know the code enough to do it myself, or I would have - it needs divisions and remainders maths.)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:27, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't we seetup auto-calcs? (both for the table(s) and the non-existent {Template:zoincost|goldzoins=|silverzoins=|copperzoins=}).  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 22:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 'cause autocalcs for tables are hard. Rose and/or TEF (or anybody else), make me a table like on User:M.mendel/Templates/cost (with "code" and "display") on Template:Zcost/doc, and I'll make you the template if it is extensive enough. -- ◄mendel► 22:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'll give it a shot, though I'd be more inclined to just write the template itself based on the cost one. I'll have a look at it later, that table of yours looks like a headache. ^_^  The only thing different is that it's not a decimal system all the time, it's pentadecimal to convert from copper to silver, which makes it harder, as I'm not familiar with this type of code and the functions available, a way to divide and save the remainder is needed.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure how good this is for now (code is a bit ugly, imo), but Template:Zoincost --JonTheMon 04:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Zoins # without doing bonus
...14? great, now i'm gonna have 4 sitting in my inventory for all eternity taunting me.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon 15:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just do it 5 times. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Um... Time
Okay, you have Noon (Eastern Time) at the top. And 14:00 Eastern time at the bottom. And the time difference from UTC are wrong. And there are 3 hours between PST and EST, so how does -7 and -5 equal 3 hours? So why don't you learn time zones and leave it how i fixed it?

BLAH!
Bored of the missions, quests game? here have a shiny coin. feel better now? No! 2 weeks of Z quests to get 1 Zaishen Key? are you kidding? Give us some real new content. dont try to bribe us into playing the same things for 3 more years. gonna need a bigger bribe. 71.231.37.95 22:54, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

They are not forcing you to replay the game. I personally enjoy this update. If you don't like the Zaishen Quests, don't do them. Mlandry 01:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Considering the size of the Live Team, I'm impressed. They didn't have to do anything at all, other than the 4th year mini series.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I personally think it was a great way to spur interest from the established player base, and breathes life into a game that was going stale. The only problem/criticism that i have is the rewards are completely biased towards PvP. The big prize is the Huge equ pack, which is mostly desired by the PvE crowd who needs room for armor sets and hoarding stuff. The 2 PvE challenges rarely (if ever) equal the zcoins from the Combat challenge, and the vast majority of PvE players do not (and will not) PvP, severely restricting their ability to gain zcoins. Why give such a bias against the PvE crowd when the big prize is meant to answer one of their biggest demands? Tzalaran 21:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Simple. PvP takes only skill balances and an occasional map to maintain, so attracting people to PvP makes sense for them.  PvE crowd is very demanding, and PvE has much more unique content, so it requires more resources to make and maintain, and to keep the PvE crowd interested.  People play more PvP - Anet doesn't need to work as hard to maintain it.  Also, apparently PvE players outnumber PvP about 9:1, meaning that PvP, the initial intention of this game, is dying.  They had to do something to attract PvE into PvP.  The solution wasn't perfect, it wasn't even great, but then again, there isn't much else they can do at this point.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:06, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point. I saw the motivation in these challenges to concentrate the PvE player base to recreate a feel that was there when the game was new: that you can get to an outpost and always find a party ready to do your quest without the waiting. M.O.X. proved that was feasible, and removing the motivation for people (by increasing rewards) to keep doing that doesn't make sense.
 * PvP though is pretty concentrated to begin with as there aren't that many venues, so attracting players to PvP does make in sense in that respect, too. -- ◄mendel► 04:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Campaign Indicator?
Is it perhaps worth entering some kind of indicator as to what campaign the quests require (eg, whether they are core/proph/factions/nightfall)? Perhaps a coloured bar, just a few pixels wide, on the left side of each entry would be enough (with different colours for each of course). I believe it would be useful for both players with only certain campaigns and for players whom have characters that have not completed all campaigns. -arual 12:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That's a good idea. I myself have only 1 character that completed all campaigns, so I usually just check wether whatever has to be done is accessible by other chars and if not, I only do it on my Derv. I have no idea however how to add something like that.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 14:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, in the sections below with the information for the individual sections and quests, it gives the campaigns. --JonTheMon 15:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoops, I forgot to check the page before replying >.< --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Noted. -- ◄mendel► 16:36, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, I did notice those but with the increasing size of those tables they are becoming more and more bland. That is why I think some colour indicaters would serve the dual purpose of sprucing the page up a bit and more importantly then users will also be able to easily tell the campaign from the top overview box rather than having to scroll down (the indicator could be applied to all the current tables afterall). arual 09:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * But... wat about teh colorblind peoples? Personally I think small strips of color will also get confusing, as there is no direct correlation between campaigns and colors.  It may get a bit rainbowy, and users would have to reference the legend every time they forget what color is what.  A letter might work better, as in (P), (F), (N), (E).  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 09:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Very true about the colours! I never really realised before how the campaigns never had a specific colour (not that there is a reason why they should). The brackets with the letter in bold makes it look ok-ish (P), (F), (N), (E) and of course (C). It all depends on whether it is possible to get the identifiers in there without making the table harder to read - if it is not easily doable then there is no point. arual 11:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd probably just add them after the quest name, and have a note at the top of the table explaining what they are. I would also not do this until the "history" tables are moved to a separate history article (once they get too large), because until then you are duplicating information that is better presented in the history list.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just noticed the Sandbox. Looks better than I thought it would, so it's not a big deal if information is duplicated. I only have one problem: Hero Battles aren't really core. You must have Nightfall or Eye to play them; Factions and/or Prophecies without one of the other two cannot access them. I would label these as (N/E), unless this was already discussed somewhere and I missed it. RoseOfKali 20:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds fair enough to me, the only reason they were labelled as core was because I couldn't remember what the conditions were (since I never partake in that form of PvP). Might be worth waiting till nearer the time when the old information gets archived to see what it looks like in a table with ~25-30 rows (assuming it gets archived monthly). arual 11:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Monthly would make the most sense. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:27, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Removal total coins
There is really no point of keeping the total. In fact it haven't even been updated for a while. For example, total currently show 4960 coins when in fact the correct number is 5915, to and including May 9 2009. Sure I could update it but I don't fancy opening 50+ pages recalculating all the individual coin rewards for quests/bounty/pvp when I think it's not really needed. Anyone who agrees? Thoose who disagree should at least try keep the values accurate or there's *really no point in keeping it. --Lexxor 16:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you would look a little further down the page, it'll give you all the coin values of each quest, so it's not as hard as you're making it out to be. See, I already did it. --JonTheMon 17:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

predictor
Is there any way to predict the pattern for the coins it rates (the difficulty)? It it based on how far along in the campaign the mission is, the boss is, etc? I know we have a table with examples on the pages for Z bounty and Z mission (not updated for a while on the latter...) but surely we can tell somehow?