Talk:Light of Deliverance

Just tried it, it heals party member under 50 % health Titine 05:00, 23 September 2006 (CDT).


 * If that is true even afetr release it wouldn't be too useful for spike healing.--Life Infusion 19:11, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

Heal Party spammer's new best friend? Kessel 10:48, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Heal Party spammers have needed something better to do with their lives since beta... --Carmine 16:32, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

I guess you can't expect more from a skill capped off a level 13 boss. On a side note - first elite to be capped off a boss lower than level 20?


 * When prophecies was released there was a Charr Boss with Hundred blades and a Skale in the Kryta area with Spike trap(both of which I got before the patch, not sure if there were others) so technically, no, not the first, though I would put money they only put that in there for the event and elites will be on higher level enemy bosses :)


 * Glyph of energy on smoke phantoms, or so parts of the prima says. Beta prehaps? &mdash; Skuld 16:39, 3 October 2006 (CDT)


 * In the Betas, and early release days, all bosses had elites. ~Ubermancer

teh suxor?
this skill is weak. i mean at 16 heal the health gained is only 85, i would much rather take glyph and heal party. also its only when below 80%? its not really that great. healer's boon ftw!
 * Heal Party has a 2 second cast time, costs three times as much, is pretty crap on a primary Monk, and running Mo/E is outdated nowadays. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:41, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Inaccurate description
As Titine said above, this isn't working as the description reads. My guild found out the hard way by taking out the usual Heal Party + Ether Prodigy on an E/Mo runner for this alone and suffered for it. It does seem like around 50% health is the mark where it actually starts to heal. &mdash;Vendetta411 01:16, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah the description seems to be wrong, but in the Traditional Chinese language, the description is 50% instead of 80%, same as the actual effect. &mdash;Sora 03:14, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * If 80% were the true value, this would be an overpowered skill by far. --Xeeron 07:52, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * But it's 50%, and a waste of an elite slot, and 1k for the Signet of Capture. Word of Healing is far better for healing at 50% health. --Mgrinshpon 10:12, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * In its defense: it's an untargeted heal, which can be nice in a pinch, even at a 1-second cast, and furthermore, if you heal 2+ party members, it can be very nice to have around. It seems slightly underpowered, though, but perhaps better than being overpowered.  Not sure about that eliteness thing, but for a 12-player PUG, I'd go for it.  For a more organized group, probably less useful. --Carmine 21:28, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

cant get it from that boss
i just tried to cap in cliffs of dojok and he didnt have it.
 * I confirmed this and have removed Chineh Lightbringer from the list of bosses to capture from. --Monk 23:01, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

The 50/80% issue
First thing first: It's 80%. Pretty pictures: Me useing LoD at 402 of 500 HP (80.4%) and nothing happens. Me useing LoD at 394 of 500 HP (78.8%) healing me for 85 HP to a new total of 479 of 500 HP. If anyone wants to edit this without a comment, please test it first. --SET 18:25, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * There was a new build today. It's possible that the skill was indeed bugged (or simply had a typo) until the new build. After all, as Sora noted, the skill description in another language had it accurately written as being 50%. 404notfound 19:36, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * No, I caped and used this skill on the day of the release and it worked as described. I tested it (without screencaps and with just about +-10% accuracy) and removed the beta event based note about the 50% bug with the description "They fixed it". 3 days later someone added it back without a comment, that's why it did the tests and documented them with screencaps. I didn't add it to the discussion above because that was based on the beta weekend while this one is based on the final release of the game. --SET 20:52, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Core skill for defeating Abaddon
Why? DeepSearch 17:00, 18 November 2006 (CST)
 * "Core skill" isn't a very good term for it, but in a nutshell virtually all of the damage you recieve during the fight with Abaddon is either trivial damage from Monoliths or effectively party-wide damage from Abaddon itself, which LoD cleans up extremely efficiently. Neoflame 22:09, 19 November 2006 (CST)
 * Ah ok, thanks for explaining. You're right, core skill isn't the right term then, if anything, you can call it useful. I doubt the skill page is the right place for this note, though - it should be in the mission article. But someone has already removed the note, anyway. DeepSearch 01:40, 22 November 2006 (CST)
 * You meaning its needed like infusion is needed for the mursaat? You could say: Extraordinarly useful in later missions Dr Titan 20:20, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * Its not needed like infusion, it just makes the mission it a lot easier. -- Xeon 20:31, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I learned that it does help, and my group got masters in 17 minutes. However, when i went back later for my armor, i assembled a random grp and got 16:43 lol. We only used one hero monk too lol without LoD. It did not seem any easier or more difficult it seems. (Reedem@G-account 01:32, 11 January 2007 (CST))

Much better to bring Healer's Boon and Heal Party.

An N/Mo would use that combo, not a primary monk. P A R A S I T I C 22:36, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Why N/Mo? You'd have to be casting Healer's Boon as soon as it recharges each time. Boon is divine favor, you know.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 19:43, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Boon lasts 10 casts.... –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:56, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * I wanna see a monk keep a party alive in the thick of battle casting only spell a second--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 20:06, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * so lets grab our calculator now. so your monk can cast more then 10 spells in 10 seconds?
 * if we calculate that would mean if u cast every second a 1/4 th cast (together with 0.75 aftercast) of 5 energy, if we calculate it on pips, you would have 11 (10) pips of energy degen even with your, so you always have a team of 2 necro 's, one constantly biping you, the other blood ritualing you and putting wells of power on you, and another monk putting succor and peace and harmony on you, and still u have 2 pips short to keep casting. Or in general, your remark was just plain old retarded.
 * Healer's Boon doesn't last 10 seconds. Its maintained and ends when you cast the 10th spell (monk secondary). --NYC Elite 19:21, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * If you cast 10 spells in 10 seconds, the enchantment will end. &mdash; Skuld 10:32, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * imo you need a BiP. Just grab the closest emo. But, yes, with a GoLE, and other heal spells, seed, whisper, ethereal, and such, healer's boon is pretty good. You're not going to end up spamming that much anyway (LoD has 5 recharge). With some sort of energy management in form of a BiP or N/Mo spirits... 'course, it'd be easier if you brought mind blast bonder/heal party or an LoD and so on. -Silk Weaker

if you consider this a "core" skill for defeating abbadon then maybe you should take a look at martyr,holy haste and heal party--Gene195 15:49, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

Glitch?
I was working through Ring of Fire last night. The guy I was with had Koss equiped with a vamp weapon. Light of Deliverance would not heal Koss unless Koss took damage from other sources. Even if Koss got under 50%. Once he took damage from another source, it worked normaly.

I havent' tried it in the new build, so I don't know if it's still broken, or how far this reached (all degen, only environment related degen, only vamp weapons, specific skills, etc...) Yamagawa 02:18, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * I can't reproduce this. Going from full to below 80% through only a vampiric weapon still gets a heal from LoD when I try it.  I tested on myself and on a hero.  --Fyren 09:41, 20 February 2007 (CST)

On testing: Watch that the character with the vamp isn't the one casting LoD. Caster still gets divine favor healing regardless of the 80%. I passed this on to PlayNC support. As is I don't have the tools I need to properly retest this. (no vamp weapon, no idea what skills Koss had, etc...) Yamagawa 19:31, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * When I said both myself and on a hero I meant I tested both ways. I wasn't using a primary monk in any case so there was no divine favor involved.  --Fyren 20:21, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Well two possibilities that come to mind are lag, spell radius (too far away from you guys?), and simultaneously getting hit and healed of effect (I monk a lot and when you take damage and heal at the same time it sometimes looks liek you aren't healed) (Not a fifty five 22:14, 20 February 2007 (CST))

Reproduced. Turns out LoD is working normaly. What the bug is is I'm not getting an accurate read on another players hero health. Have screenshots, will pass this on to AreaNet. And here I was worried over players dying. Now I'm woried about healing players that don't need healing. Yamagawa 20:55, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * 3 test cases:
 * Party of 8: Myself as leader, a LoD monk, with Zhed (SF Ele), Sousuke (SF Ele), and Olias (MM), Other party (Ranger) brought Koss (IW?), Zhed (SF?) and Mo/Me Boon Prot. Only Koss had a vamp weapon.  We did mish to first mana seal, then disabled all hero heal skills and used only LoD to heal koss.  Discrepency was clear before the boon-prot monk was properly disabled.  What I saw of Koss's health did not match what was reported to me by other player (I saw less health than other player reported).  After ~5 minutes more this discrepency was grossly exaggerated -- Koss near full health, yet his health bar on my screen reported 0 health.  Other player saw no discrepency in Koss's health.


 * Party of 4: Myself as leader, a LoD Monk, with Koss (all skills disabled, carrying a vamp weapon). Ranger human and his Koss, both wielding vampiric weapons.  Health bars for both Koss heroes remained near/at correct.  Health bar for other player slowly deviated in the minus direction on my screen (reporting less health than actual).  He reported seeing same deviation much later than I did, but it was not captured in his screenshots. (Hmm...)  Healing was from using mix of Heal Party and Light of Deliverance.  Comparing the Ranger's max healths to Kosses and rate of observable degen (watching bars shrank fastest), it would appear that the effect of the degen was exagerated for my view of the other live players health bar (he had 41 more max health than either koss, but his bar shrank faster than for either koss).


 * Party of 2: Myself (LoD Monk) and Koss. Both wielding vamp weapons.  No discrepency noted over 5 min.

Observed evidence has me thinking that this glitch is: Common, but not universal. Related to Degen, not to healing. Exacerbated by Light of Deliverance. Yamagawa 23:17, 22 February 2007 (CST)

If anyone was wondering the range is not unlimited.

not unlimited but so long in raidius should heal Experienced 21:37, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

Overpowered
M s4 11:59, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Not rly. Lord of all tyria 11:59, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Eternally stapled to my Tahlkora's skillbar. No nerfs, plskthx.... Arshay Duskbrow 15:25, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * kk, only because you said plz. The Hobo 23:56, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Name another healing elite that is actually used other than in RA. M s4 21:43, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Why would u run this in TA... And um, there arent many good healing elites. Prot=Win. [[Image:User Frvwfr2 signature.jpg|User:Frvwfr2]] frvwfr2 (T/C) 21:45, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * well this is the only healing elite used now and people used healing elites before nightfall. M s4 21:47, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * not that hard to counter. 220.101.136.175 22:15, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * people carry interrupts? We shouldn't bring any 1 cast spells then. People carry signet of humility? we shouldn't bring elites either. People carry diversion? Unless we bring hex removal, we just shouldn't bring skills either. M s4 09:27, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Healing Hands is win because of Wammos. And Glimmer of Light is pwnage, 1/16 of a second doesn't cancel the /dance emote! Seriously though, Prot >>> Heal in most PvP the way things are now, no Primary Monk should be running LoD ever. It's a support skill for flagrunners and stuff. If you really wanted it nerfed, then make it Earshot Range, like they did for Aegis. That stops a lot of its usefulness in PvP and does not hurt PvE much. (T/C) 09:30, 26 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Completely disagree, you only have to look at the commentary for the championships to see that LoD was used on every single team, and this is the top end GvG stuff here. --Ckal Ktak 16:51, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * See time of posting? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:41, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Seen, discussion updated. --Ckal Ktak 15:18, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Capture in GWEN?
Are we aware of any bosses which this skill can be captured from in Eye of the North?

Omg Nerfed
Light of Deliverance: increased casting time to 2 seconds; decreased heal amount to 5..70; now affects all party members regardless of Health.

Not sure if it's a huge nerf, but it's still useable. Holy Haste and such makes it a cheap, slightly weaker version Heal Party. --69.133.105.149 01:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh, piece of crap.
 * I think this is one of the more balanced updates to monk skills. Alot of the other skills got huge buffs, which probably wont stay around.  I have hopes for this one though.  They took away the conditional healing effect of it, and increased cast time by 1 and lowered the healing just a slight bit.  I think its very balanced.  [[Image:Isk8.png]]Sk8 01:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * While I agree that all of the skills were buffed a considerable amount and will indeed likely be toned down if not restored to their original version, I am rather unhappy with this change. The two second cast time is a pretty nasty side effect in pve, though I think this was intended for the LoD infusers in pvp. Not healing those above 80% health was a pretty negligable detriment to the skill, since if they were above 80% they probably were not in dire need of healing anyway. --Shadowcrest 02:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Me/Mo just became a lot more viable. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol yeah. I'd still prefer the now (overly) buffed WoH or the different Healer's Boon (even though I liked the old one better) though, but I think I'll try Me/Mo sometime. --Shadowcrest 02:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm missing something, are we saying the changes overall will help a Me/Mo healer, or that this specific change will? Desolation0 09:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * LoD was a staple monk skill and was on 99% of the bars in GvG. This was overkill, nerfing this is like nerfing RoF. A more balanced nerf would be making it allies or party members in earshot.--145.229.156.40 11:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

dshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshot dshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshot dshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshot dshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshotdshot &mdash; Skakid9090 03:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Or magebane now? lol --Gimmethegepgun 03:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, still dshot --Blue.rellik 11:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's amazing how nearly every skill has people still hanging on the pre-nerf side of a skill. This nerf is a typical A-net nerf: "We see you using it too much.We don't like that, this is what you're gonna get. Adapt people, i'm sure A-net will find another skill to nerf/buff very soon. Flechette 11:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This one was "nerfed" because it wasn't balanced (aka too good or bad). 88.195.166.209 13:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, this was one of the few well balanced monk skills in the game, and one of the only 3 or 4 in healing prayers. It was strong, strong enough to actually be used, unlike other elites.  However, it is VERY easy to interrupt.  If your team is pressuring, chances are their LoD will be using it every 5 seconds.  Just count to 5 after the last use and fire a d-shot-no more LoD for 20 seconds.  If your team is not pressuring, why the hell are you worried about a pressure heal anyway?  This nerf was not needed, it should have remained as it was, because after the other buffs, there are finally other healing elites worth carrying. 69.40.242.12 20:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd take Cripshot and BA over Magebane anyday even with it's (debatable) buff. 65.30.20.38 12:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I was making a joke about Magebane, the change is pathetic --Gimmethegepgun 20:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Unnecessary change, hopefully this will be reverted. 2 seconds on any monk skill is practically an eternity and is just begging for a mesmer or ranger to stop it. Restore 80% conditionality revert casting time and drop range as was suggested above if the nerf goon squad over at anet must harm this skill. 67.191.245.177 21:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What about a Fast-Cast Mesmer spamming this now? I mean, the skill doesn't cost much energy, and the Divine Favor heal is generally not needed by the monk caster anyways. The heal buff, the unconditional heal, and cast time could justify such a usage: LoD Hex-Removal Mesmer :P 69.235.199.30 05:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea but there are very few circumstances (heavy degen) where you would actually want to spam this spell to begin with. Holy Haste still makes this skill alright...sort of...just stay away from mesmers I guess.  Its either that or its time to start using WoH or maybe Glimmer.  67.191.245.177 05:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fast Casting would help but at 12 Healing, it was nerfed to a lame 57 heal
 * Heal party is now actually BETTER then this skill... Glyph of lesser energy + Heal Party = useless this skill. this skill should be un-nerfed.. I am ashamed to have any of my chars use LoD, they now use Glimmer and GoLE + Heal Party.. Warwick (Talk) (Contr.) 21:34, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I actually agree with the above comment...and aren't elite skills supposed to be better than their non-elite counterparts? Methinks anet made a mistake here at the very least healing power of this skill should be superior to HP.  67.191.245.177 05:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * While I do agree with the above statment, this skill did need a nerf, when you see almost every monk in existance going this, you know it needs a nerf. I wonder how big of an impact this will affect PvP.
 * Just because every MM necro uses BoTM doesn't mean it needs a nerf. If Anet doesn't want people using LoD they could always come up with more interesting skills. After all, on the prot line you had valid choices like ZB, SoR and BL. 1.2.3.4 05:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is BotM elite? No. Is this? Yes. Meaning they can only pick a single elite, and by picking this they rule it better than all the alternatives. Is BotM overpowered? No, it is necessary for the MM to keep his minions alive. Is LoD necessary to keep teammates alive? No. Obviously, this means that they are taking the most powerful skill, and as almost all monks were using it, it was clearly overpowered --Gimmethegepgun 06:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Well they increased the healing of Heal Party as well. So its just a much cheaper alternative.
 * Down but not out...I have seen several multiple monk parties using Arcane Mimicry to get both HB and LoD on the same bar. Clever workaround and while not particularly elegant its effective.  We'll have to see if it sticks. 67.191.245.177 15:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Wierd Effect
I've been monking for quite some time now (see userpage), and I am lead to believe LoD is working oddly. Since the update, it seems that even though it is supposed to heal all party members unconditionally, it only heals party members who have lost health. Meaning, if you're at 100% health, LoD doesn't effect you. Not that it's very significant, but even Heal Party still effects you if you're full up. --Franzwald 03:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That needs to be checked as it might effect a party member from being healed if they take damage after you have activated the spell. What I mean to say is, a party member already at 100% health might be ignored after the spell is activated even though they have taken damage during the activation. Hope that makes sense. 81.101.118.238 13:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying, but all skills in the game (except for Healing Signet's -40 armor) have their effects activated under whatever condition the game is in when it finishes casting, not when it started casting --Gimmethegepgun 01:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Should the fact that Light of Deliverance is often abreviated as LoD be under trivia, or even in the article? You don't see this on Word of healing (WoH), Zealous Benidiction (ZB), or many other skills that are abreviated...for now I'm removing this unless someone states the official policy on abreviations...-Warior kronos 03:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * We do NOT put abbreviations under an article's Trivia or Notes, ever. I know there are still others out there, but thanks for removing this one...I hadn't even noticed it, to be honest. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * K thanx, I noticed it on Shield of Deflection as well and changed it there now.--Warior kronos 22:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it just me, or did the effect of LoD recently change? At first it was everyone under 80% health, but now its just everyone gets healed. Am I crazy or was this a software update? If so, why did they change it?
 * Game updates/20071108 --Gimmethegepgun 04:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Anet changed LoD because it was overpowered. They removed the 80% condition to try and balance out the nerfing-I don't think it worked. The Hobo 05:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think that was meant to balance out the nerfing, it was just to be a tiny little concession so it might someday be used again --Gimmethegepgun 05:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That will never happen unless Anet fiddles around with this skill again. The Hobo 05:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow! no more reason for me to use this thing instead of Glimmer of Light (omg that one just got a big boost! didn't notice that one either!)--El Nazgir 11:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

LoD just died
Ouch. 10 second recharge, 1 sec cast time. I think this just fell into disuse for DoA.. -- Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 19:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Now pointless even with Holy Haste. GG Anet. --69.133.105.149 20:47, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow. This just sucks now. More reasons for people to use WoH or Glimmer Spam now... --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 21:46, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, so majorly buffing skills makes them useless now? It sucked before, it's...passable now. I'm sticking to WoH, but this is much better than it was before update. Nyktos 22:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is worse because now you can't (well, you can, but its a waste) combine with Holy Haste or mimic a Healer's Boon off another ally anymore. --Shadowcrest 22:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Because 1/2-second cast full party heals are sooooooo useless.... Nyktos 22:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but 1 second full party heals that can be used twice as often are better. --Shadowcrest 22:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What is Cartwright smoking? --83.85.246.206 22:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (EC) Not if they require you to play a seven-skill bar. Nyktos 22:57, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What? --Shadowcrest 22:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Holy Haste takes up a skillslot that could be used on something good. Nyktos 22:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Like? And that's why people generally mimicry/HBoon rather than Holy Haste. Because with HB, this heals more, casts faster, and used to be able to be used twice as often. --Shadowcrest 23:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Arcane Mimicry is terrible. Besides, if you're using HB, why not just use Heal Party. Nyktos 23:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Because Heal Party costs 15 energy... --Gimmethegepgun 23:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's better than the last update since Holy Haste was a waste, I liked using Vigorous Spirit or Guardian and Patient Spirit. I rejoice, if you guys don't. Don't cry for LoD spam in HA or GvG... that idea was dead since the previous update.Big Bow 23:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) The cost. And I'll agree that mimicry is usually terrible, but since you have DV anyway if you cast HB close to the 20s mark you'll still have it on you when mimicry recharges. If GoLE recharged faster, I guarentee you nobody would use this at all, they'd all be HB/HP monks. --Shadowcrest 23:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Glyph of Energy helped on using HP on HB monks.Big Bow 23:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * GoE is elite, and you can't mimicry it. GoLE (which is what I assume you're talking about) recharges too slow to make HP spammable. --Shadowcrest 23:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (EC) In PvE you don't need party healing particularily often, and GoLE is usually enough. In PvP, nobody was actually using Holy Haste or Arcane Mimicry anyway. Nyktos 23:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ursanway in DoA revolved around 2 HB monks and a mimicry LoD, which I assume will be replaced by another HB/HP, because of the recharge. --Shadowcrest 23:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And in pvp you never saw this skill period anymore, so I don't see your argument. --Shadowcrest 23:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Right, I forgot the Lesser... But my bad i tried putting up my comment 4 times up, but everytime there was someone editing it b4 me XD.Big Bow 23:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... Ima reset that indent there --Gimmethegepgun 23:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Way to indent your reset :P --Shadowcrest  23:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What's next, a heal party nerf? Oh wait, that happened too! --Seventh 23:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Most people indent the reset indent because otherwise it looks like a completely different conversation at a glance --Gimmethegepgun 01:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Rly? I've never noticed.. --Shadowcrest 01:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically full party heal skills are now utterly useless. LoD lost it's elite status IMO, apart from the low energy cost its a weak heal at best. Totally inrecognisable from it's former pre-first-nerf version. Now THAT was an elite. WEll, I never used it anyway :) Majorly prefer HB or WoH (even in combination with Holy Haste :P :P :P and do some serious spike healing instead. Hurt me plenty. My team shall prevail 84.104.80.120 17:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

CAN SOME GIVE ME A GOOD BUILD FOR HEROES IN PVE FOR HB?--Balistic Pve 01:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

IMO
PvP > PvE (and it will always and has always been like that), so stop crying PvE nubs, i actually saw some guilds use this yesterday! - 70.15.6.229 20:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO PvE > PvP <B><font color="FF0099">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  20:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) That's your opinion. Your saying so doesn't make it fact. PvP bores me half the time, you can only fight a thump team so many times before it gets old. And IMO this skill is failsauce, as outlined above. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 20:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Also pvp snobs should kill themselves
 * IMO, theres only so many times you can repeatedly kill the same retarded AI monsters before it gets old - 70.15.6.229 22:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * True. But regardless, I'm sure we could go on for hours about how one is supposedly better than the other, and all we'll accomplish is confirming the fact its a matter of opinion. So any point in saying one is better than the other is a waste of space, and insulting people who play the other is just stupid. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 22:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You could of course kill the same monsters over and over again, or you go and kill diffrent monsters. Or you just enjoy the game with your friends, not caring what others think. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 22:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * PVE>PVP in the fact that theres much less elitists and whiners. For an example, view above anon. As for gameplay, to each his own.--Alari 22:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)