User talk:Threll/Builds/N/Mo Tombs OOV

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Testing is encouraged but not required.''

Favored:
 * 1) I used something similar a long, long time ago. There are better options if you include Factions and Nightfall, but as far as Prophecies builds go, this works. I question the usefulness of such builds, however - not getting the new expansions is simply unthinkable to me. :) NightAngel 14:00, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's more or less structured this way for Prophecies-born Necromancers to make it to Tombs with a road map of necessary skills to keep in mind along the way. - Threll 14:32, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Well, if it is for Prophecies only, then sure, why not.  Defiant Elements 22:23, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * 2) I used to run a similar build on my necro... Pestilence 20:11, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * 3) I have to agree with the general consensus that there are some better alternatives with factions/nightfall skills... but for a prophecies-only build, it's reasonably good. – Taeryn 12:12, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 4) Favored for Prophecies-only. &mdash; [[image:azayasig.jpg]] Azaya 16:33, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 5) I guess this works. I really, really hate Mending, on ANY build.  Bring Heal Other.  Bring...anything...but...Mending.  Doom Music 18:14, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * Mending = constant +3 health regen on YOU, since you are constantly sacrificing your health. Keeps your Monk from freaking out and wasting energy on you.. though it is easily replaceable if you're quick with the Blood Rit, I suppose. If you want me to list optional Mending replacements (Live Vicariously is one listed so far) please list them in discussion and I'll gladly get them in there. - Threll 16:20, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Unfavored:
 * 1) better working OOtV builds... -- SigmA 14:31, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * If possible, please list one that uses Prophecies skills exclusively. - Threll 14:33, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Drop OoV, take OoP and OoB. -[[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] Krowman [[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] 20:13, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * You mean BiP right? Oob is for yourself, you selfish energy-hogging necro :) And yes, it's certainly an option, but in a regular tombs group for instance, there is only one monk, so Br is plenty. NightAngel 22:05, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * I actually did mean Offering of Blood. It helps with expensive skills like Extinguish (if you choose to bring it), Heal Party, Rebirth, and if you are maintaining an enchant like Mending. I suppose you could take BiP, but like you said, there's one monk; there's no need to spread the energy luvin' that much. -[[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] Krowman [[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] 22:46, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * This reminds me of a comment that led to much controversy and grief, but let me put it in a more polite form. Dude, Soul reaping! It's nice, it's good and it's plenty. :) At 10+ it's all you need to power up, yes, Extinguish, Heal Party and such. When I order in tombs I use the Ritualist skill bar below, and I'm *always* casting something, non-stop, the entire run, without running out of energy. Always. Trust me on this, I only stop to run away from grasps :) NightAngel 06:21, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Extinguish, if i remember correctly, is not a Prophecies or Core skill, and therefore does not belong in this build. People, please read before you vote. OoB is absolutely unnecessary, BTW. I do appreciate the suggestions, but I don't feel that they are appropriate for the build and its purpose (Tombs). - Threll 13:27, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Trivial role. Does not require some super-special build to be effective. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:16, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * adding half a billion damage to each set of barrages is trivial? ok.. and the build isn't "super special", but it's more effective than bringing order of the vampire and 7 random skills. - Threll 14:47, 24 February 2007 (CST) (edit: this really bothered me, so i am posting info to the contrary in the discussion section. :p find me a b/p group that will take a necro with orders and a handful of crap, and i'll show you a b/p group that isn't going to get any greens.)

Please Keep in Mind When Voting!
This is a Prophecies build. Please don't frown upon it for being thus. - Threll 14:30, 19 February 2007 (CST) <-- IMPORTANT

I frown on it for being thus. [:-( <-- Watch me frown. :) And threll, word of advice. Don't answer Sigma's votes. He doesn't bother answering back. Just think of it as an automatic unfavored, a handicap. :) Edit: The more I think about it... new users are going to purchase Nightfall, not Prophecies. They might eventually get Prophecies too, but ONLY prophecies? That must be a rare and, most importantly, OLD kind of Gw player. Meaning that by now, he either has a good tombs build or he doesn't play tombs... NightAngel 15:00, 19 February 2007 (CST)

i have run into many, many people that only own one campaign, and many of that cross section only own prophecies. also, it's easy to get these skills and get to tombs in a few quick skips if you have a good runner, and you can be off running tombs in no time as a proph-born char. - Threll 05:18, 23 February 2007 (CST)

Those poor, misguided, lonely souls. Wandering about with only one third of the Guild Wars experience. Brings tears to my eyes. :) I just shudder to imagine, threll, if we had a proph-only, factions-only and nightfall-only version for all popular builds. It would be a gigantic mess. Of course one proph-only tombs build is not the end of the world, but you see what I'm talking about, I hope. I just think there could be one big order page (if we could ever agree on the right skills) with variants such as proph-only. More organized. NightAngel 06:29, 23 February 2007 (CST)

I know that when I bought Prophecies, I didn't want to go out and immediately get Nightfall or Factions. I was a late comer to the Guild Wars universe, and I didn't want to get in over my head before I felt like I was experienced enough. This was a build I started on just a little while before I purchased Nightfall (as I "beat" Proph shortly after), and I wanted to impart it to other players who are not quite ready to branch out, or who might not have some of the Nightfall/Factions skills to boost the build. - Threll 16:01, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Foreword
For the longest time, I was always the MM in a Tombs B/P group. During a particularly rough day, I lost all faith in the Orders Necromancers I had been paired with and decided to tweak an OOV build myself. I have been using this in Tombs for about 3 weeks now, and it has been incredibly effective both in PUGs and organized groups. Please, leave constructive comments and criticism as I believe this build has a chance at being a vetted Prophecies-only (for the time-being) Tombs farming build.

I do not own Factions, and haven't run my Prophecies-born Necromancer through much of the Nightfall campaign yet. This is why, for the time being, this build does not contain any skills that are not found in the Core skills list or the Prophecies skills list. This does not mean I will not actively discuss Nightfall and Factions alternatives to skills (at the very least to be listed as variations), but the reason the way the build is based in Prophecies is so that I can test is personally, and vouch for its effectiveness to other players limited to Prophecies skills. '''Edit: This build will be posted as Prophecies and Core only. Let alternative builds mix campaigns if they wish.'''

This is one of my first posted builds, so... be gentle, I guess.

- Threll 19:33, 18 January 2007 (CST)

It's a decent version threll. I don't like mending at all, and I usually take both orders to avoid any downtime, but this works. Lately I've been using a N/Rt version though. Oh, and you should use Awaken too, it helps. NightAngel 09:24, 19 February 2007 (CST)

i've listed awaken as an optional skill (or replacement), as i found the sacrifice makes renewal less effective and only for a few extra points of damage per shot. thank you for the comment. - Threll 09:32, 19 February 2007 (CST)

2 more pts per shot with 5 rangers hitting 3-6 targets becomes slightly significant, and it's very easy to keep up. Here is what I use: Blood 14, Sr 10, Restoration 12 (two superiors), Order of Vamp, Order of Pain, Blood Ritual, Life, Recuperation, Protective Was and Awaken the Blood. Works wonders. The spirits have the added bonus of healing pets and minions NightAngel 10:08, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * if this were not a prophecies build, i would gladly welcome the help of the ritualist class and its spirits. :) - Threll 11:10, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Oh. right. :) NightAngel 12:25, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Core/Prophecies Alternatives
My own preference when running orders is to bring Succor to use on the monk and MM (even just the +1 energy pip for them seems to make a noticeable difference, and an orders necro will never run out of energy while in combat due to the pets, minions, and enemies all dying rather quickly). The hazard is, of course, that maintaining three enchantments means you need to be mindful of your energy as one wave of combat comes to a close, so that you have enough to handle the start-up costs in the next wave. I also do not run Awaken, because in my opinion it makes the sacrifice costs too high for Mending/Renewal to keep up with efficiently.

Also, as enchanting modifiers do have an effect with orders, I think enchanting should be a high-priority weapon modifier for this build (almost a requirement, in my opinion). I run an Insightful Blood Staff of Enchanting, personally, which provides 20 HCT blood, 20 HSR all, +20% enchants, and 15 energy.

One thing I thing should be mentioned when analyzing Breeze vs Renewal... Renewal's removal will provide a strong spike-heal if you should come under fire (and, since most monsters have Fingers of Chaos, if you come under fire, Blood Renewal will probably get stripped). That feature alone makes it vastly superior to Healing Breeze, in my opinion, and it also is 5 energy cheaper. -- IzzionSona 20:11, 18 January 2007 (CST) (oops, forgot sig first time)


 * I agree, Blood Renewal should be taken over Healing Breeze. I just wanted to offer it as an alternative to Orders newcomers. I know I had to use HB for a little while until I got comfortable with the sacrifice. I will try to get a variation up that uses Succor and does not contain Awaken the Blood, though I think it's a great (albeit unnecessary) boost, or perhaps list it as an optional slot. Suggestions? - Threll 20:31, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * Very much agreed about the Enchanting mod, it's incredibly usefulf or that 1 extra second of OotV, which means that even if the HRT mod doesn't kick in, there'll be at most 1 second of downtime on the order. Plus, it only makes Blood Renewal better. --Dirigible 20:38, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * The downtime is inevitable at first before access to powerful items, but I changed the recommended weapon and gave a statistical description. (Edit: I also added Succor as a suggested replacement for ATB.) - Threll 20:47, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Awaken the Blood might not be the best idea for me to put in along with Blood Renewal, since the sacrifice will become roughly 1/3 of your health bar. I will get my Necro back over to Tombs and test different combinations out for a while before I edit the build any further. - Threll 23:41, 26 January 2007 (CST) Ok.. so I've been playing with it, and I think I'm going to swap ATB out for Smite Hex since Hexes are usually doubled up on a Ranger in my Tombs experience. I will make the necessary modifications to the build and then let it settle for a while before deciding to push it to a vote. - Threll 14:34, 7 February 2007 (CST)

General Discussion
Why not just update the build in the B/P Topic? Teutonic Paladin 21:15, 18 January 2007 (CST)


 * I originally started this after stumbling upon the unfavored Build:N/Mo Orders Necromancer, and since it was a build unto itself, I simply followed suit. I am not opposed to the idea, though placing it in a team build does not allow for quite the same level of explanation. - Threll 22:15, 18 January 2007 (CST)

For the sake of documentation, this build was vetted on 2/24/07. - Threll 16:44, 24 February 2007 (CST)

To those of you who think an Orders Necro is stupid, or unnecessary, or "trivial".. Here is some information I found on the B/P page: ''An Orders Necromancer with maximum Blood Magic gives a guaranteed damage bonus of 17 (or 19 if aided by Awaken the Blood) per arrow that hits. In the worst case, with each of the five barragers hitting just one target each, this translates to an additional damage output of 85 (or 95) for the team. A sixth Barrager with maximum Marksmanship will do around 40 damage per arrow with an elemental string; he will thus have to hit at least three targets every time to outperform the Orders Necromancer's worst case damage output. In even a slightly better case, where each barrager hits three targets each, the damage output of the Orders Necromancer is 255 (or 285), which is more than the sixth barrager can achieve even if all his six arrows connect. Of course, if the team has no Orders Necromancer, then it is free to use elemental bowstrings, which increases the damage output of every arrow by around 5-10 points.'' - Threll 16:50, 24 February 2007 (CST)

If you're going to add "just in case" to the OoP text, please give an example rather than just allude to its existence. - Threll 14:03, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Cleaned up a lot of the descriptive text and fixed some typos. Also added Runes of Attunement to the Runes subsection of Equipment. Added additional info regarding Live Vicariously and non-standard B/P Rangers. - Threll 16:43, 7 March 2007 (CST) (almost forgot.. changed "Scar Pattern armor" to "Any armor with Radiant Insignias".)