Talk:Droknar's Forge run

How about Thunderhead Keep/Fort Ranik to Bloodstone Fen? Now THAT's what I'd call a mission. Wonder if anyone's ever run this far in one go. Kidburla 08:11, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

"The entire journey is rather long and perilous due to deadly combinations and high concentrations of foes along the way, designed for groups of eight level 20 adventurers." How can the "entire journey" be designed for "eight level 20 adventurers," if you can't have 8 members in a party from Beacons? -Auron of Neon 04:34, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
 * You can have eight travelling north into the run, rather than south from Beacon's. -- Dashface 09:00, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
 * In other words, the area is designed/balanced to be journeyed from South to North. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 09:47, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
 * The article infers 8 North to South, as that is the direction of the Droknar Run. No one needs a run from Droknar to Beacons. Should say 6 in my opinion, although I have explored in a Northern direction once. Joseph C 19:40, 10 November 2006 (CST)

Other builds?
The article refers to the Build:W/Mo Bold Forge Runner, but this is only one of many builds that can do the run, should other builds be included? --mer 09:10, 28 November 2006 (CST)
 * That article includes details of the run itself, hence it's inclusion, but I do agree with you that there should be a section/subsection with a list of builds that can do the run, maybe at the end? Joseph (t/c) 07:24, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Current Prices
I recently got a run to Drok's with two of my characters. The prices used to be 2-3k for a run, but lately it's been 5k (if you're lucky) all the way up to 20k. And yes, I have seen a 20k team fill up VERY quickly. Average is 8-10k.
 * On all of my characters (3 of them) I got free runs. All you have to do is wait there and look for people test running it. Have patience, they may fail it. Just go back and keep looking. Caje47 23:31, 22 December 2006 (CST)Caje47
 * I frequent Beacon's Perch on the En-1 server and have never seen runs advertised at 20K. The going rate was 2K before the nerf and has been 4K since. The most I have see runs at is 10K for dual runners. Like Caje47 I always hike a ride with test runners, although I have fought in both directions too. Since the nerf, I have found it easier, and quicker, to complete the missions to get to Drok's. The only hiccup being the bonus on Dunes of Destiny and trying to find a team that knows what they are doing and that works together... Joseph (t/c) 07:42, 23 December 2006 (CST)
 * I can verify it's gotten somewhat Easier again (mostly since Chilblains was FINALLY nerfed) b/c I just did the run solo on my gimpish Derv/Par (Mystic&Command) build. I wouldn't quote prices, just saying it doesn't require dual runners anymore if the solo runner has a good rhythm down. --ilr (3/11/08)

Lol, The current pricing for droks runs are like 3-4k. Because of the constant randomized spawns and the nerfing of ice imps casting time of Mind Freeze, the prices have gone up because of the demand. Rhyza 14 18:32, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Impossibility of a Droknar Run
It is my understanding that the Droknar's Forge run from Beacon's Perch is now impossible to run alone. Those that dual run it are also having incredible difficulty, and while it can be done, is now seen as a waste of effort and time. Those who can run it, should charge a minimum of 8k (8,000 gold) for a successful run, demanding half at Grenth's Footprints.
 * It has been a waste of gold ever since GW:Factions came out, because you can get the same quality armour at Kaineng Center. (and the surrounding areas with little more effort) Joseph (T/C) 08:19, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, some people just go there to get to the Ring of Fire island chain sooner, you know, skill capping and all --mer 08:53, 11 December 2006 (CST)

The only builds that can successfully get through the droks run now are Dervish primary or secondaries included in there build (Dervish these days are a must to survive Lornar's Pass). Because of the nerfs from the test weekend recently it has been becoming harder and harder.. (Thank God for the Frost WurmAI update recently!!!) Many people have realised that Siege Ice Golem(s) can hit you from a mile now with there "steroid arm" and chilblains has been increased to rip 2 enchants, which really annoys many enchanted runners. So yes, many of the spawns have been randomized dramatically and get weirder every time :(    Rhyza 14 18:39, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thank goodness I got mine while it was still possible. :P I think that runs will always be available, soon there will be this awesome new build popping out of nowhere and everyone will use it, and Anet will have to nerf it... again... -- Nova  [[Image:NovaSmall.PNG]] --

(contribs) 19:00, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * I call BS on the the "only dervishes can do the run now" deal... it's still doable as a W/Mo with holy veil. It's just not as easy as it was. Phydeaux 23:50, 10 March 2007 (CST)
 * agreed - I just completed my first test run to the forge using the W/Mo build with holy veil - it is still possible but it seems you need to get at least a decent spawn. With the D/A build it appears to be easier. I've been watching two D/As doing the run together and they even had time to chat while running... - Looping 00:52 15 March 2007 (GMT+1)
 * wammos just cant run it. they have at most 3 hex removal. only 3!!! 1 from veil, 1 from smite hex, 1 from veil again. then theyre screwed until recharge. there is a place in lornars where there are crones+ about 5 golems. crones will strip veil, and golems will freeze u. grawls will own you till u die. its impossible unless u get a godly spawn. and since that isnt guaranteed, u cant charge people for the run. -- Xeones [[image:Xeones.jpg]] 08:15, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

PS: Check my Userpage for details on the character I use to run or if you're in need of the run itself. Expect to pay chump change as I am a very generous player.--MagickElf666 13:02, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Totally Possible. I am an inexperienced player, created a Dervish about a week ago, and just completed a successful Droks Run (you can tell the other 5 guys were extremely happy since they didn't have to pay). What I noticed was that the easiest spawn is the one that has that big group of Avicara right outside Beacon's Perch. There is also a group of Grawl that will start moving towards and eventually engage you if you just stand on their radar range..

Addition of information on other sources for Max Armor
I added the section at the bottom of the page with info on how to get max armor from the other two campaigns after reading a thread about how Drok's Run is impossible now. Many people seemed to think this was the only way to get to Droknar's Forge and many people had the attitude that it was the first place you can get max armor. Since the two ways I listed are easier and usually cheaper than a Drok's Run, I felt the information was needed. People who do Drok's Runs may not like this addition but it is needed for people who are new to the game and read this page.Thor79 15:05, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * This info seems to have got inadvertently dropped somewhere along the line. I've put it back, with the addition of EotN as another source now that chars below level 20 can get there as well. -- 166.120.202.205 04:15, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Revert
This is not a guide on how to run or how to be run to Droknar's. The info on scamming and how people usually advertise in chat isn't really useful or relevant. We also never list trade prices for anything. Scam info for people running could go into a guide for people running, if the anonymous user wants to write one, and other scam info goes in the usual scams article. --Fyren 17:44, 2 May 2007 (CDT)

Title
"Droks run" clearly comes from "Droknar's Forge," so moving it to "Droks run" is the wrong direction entirely. --Fyren 13:36, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

Re: Revert & Title
Firstly the title of this article says "Drokar run", which if I am correct means the article should describe the run in all its aspects. Your statement:

"This is not a guide on how to run or how to be run to Droknar's. The info on scamming and how people usually advertise in chat isn't really useful or relevant. We also never list trade prices for anything."

is one perspective that may or may not be shared by the rest of the Guild Wars community. The scope of how much information this article contains should be a decision based on what players are looking for in an article, not outdated/personal conventions. My perspective on this issue is that there is no such thing as too much information on a topic, but with respect to article design, content should be separated responsibly as you mentioned.

1) The challenge is creating quality content for this article that is both accurate and helpful.

2) I think facts, like prices standards seen in the game, should be included as they are very much a part of the Droks run, and indeed many other runs.

3) Statements about how many runnrs are successfully making runs, how many are running for tips/money/free should be based on real statistics, or not mentioned at all.

Secondly, this run regardless of where the term is dervied from, is most commonly refered to as a "Droks run" in the game (derived from the shortening of Droknar's Forge to just Droks), and that is the search phrase people will use. Thus it makes sense to name the title accordingly. I think it makes more sense to include where that name is derived from in as part of the introduction.
 * This is not and should not be a guide. I didn't say you couldn't write such a guide and if one were written it would be linked from here.  For the title, the most official terms for everything are used regardless of in game use.  Otherwise Thunderhead Keep would be named "Thunderhead," Shiro Tagachi would be named "Shiro," and orison of healing would be "orison." We have redirects to handle this; if a user types in "droks run" they will still end up at the article.  Incidentally, I am moving it back.  Do not move it a third time.  We never include trade prices anywhere on the wiki for anything.  We don't want people using the wiki as a source for prices given that anyone can edit it since people will end up trying to scam using it.  Prices seen in games are facts in the sense of "people have charged 5k for a run" but not in the sense of "a run costs 5k."  --Fyren 14:20, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I appreciate the standards you are trying to maintain, but you still have not addressed the primary issue of creating quality content. Whether you intend it to be used as a guide or not, it is being used as one. That is a reality. For example, the mission descriptions contain strategies and details that done step by step can lead to the completion of mission, which are mini-guides unto themselves. Either place a disclaimer message on the main page, restrict access to edit articles, or let the guild wiki evolve the way players want it to. --Elite Runner 14:34, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * If I dump thousands of random letters into an article, that is reality but I'm not going to call it the evolution of the wiki. Do you mean "players" as in more than you?  The article has more or less been in its current state since August 2005.  A wiki is never about individual freedom to edit articles as you please but the community effort to do so.  I'm arguing this because of the way we generally create articles and separate content.
 * Before you pruned it, the article was not insubstantial. Adding a guide on how to actually do the run would make the article huge and I guarantee someone would split it off into its own article.  For missions, the walkthrough is the description of the mission.  It's not separated out into a "here's a map with all the mobs listed, when you go here this triggers, you must do this to continue" and then suggestions because it's easier to a narrative covering how an actual play-through will go.  For this article, before the build wipe the actual how-to was in the build articles linked.  The current idea is that builds be replaced with guide articles in the main namespace and the how-to of running is exactly what would fit such a guide.  --Fyren 14:57, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

Mapping the Run
Would it be terrible to include a map of the run? Obviously not an in-depth guide of how to get from Beacons to Droks, but still, it's relevant and useful.--65.185.192.160 19:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

HARD MODE!?!
I just found this. Anyone think this is somehow faked? If not this guy has some real skills. http://youtube.com/watch?v=VadH4xXlYUk
 * Woah, I must admit that it is pretty damn good Blue.rellik 05:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You just found it, eh? You sure it wasn't you or someone you know just posted it?  Next time spare us the bragging and the 1:20 of exposition at the beginning.  -- mechasoupx 07:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing that I uploaded it at around midnight and then went to bed without telling anyone I had (other than posting a link on the guild's forums), it is unlikely that that anon is a close friend. Factor in that only three of my RL friends have ever played the game for more than a few minutes, and it is even less likely.  I did not post it.  While I could have changed my IP address to provide some level of anonymity I did not.  Since I cannot prove that I did not, I guess you will have to trust that since you can not (if you can I certainly would like to know what I'm doing when I'm asleep) prove that I posted that comment, I did not.  With that said.  I was not expecting someone to have thrown a link up already.  The best assumption that I can make is that someone saw it on of the forums that I use.  Both of the pages show an increase in views by about 3.  I am assuming that one of my former guildies either saw this and was doubtful, wanted to start some debate or another where people tried to (in)validate it back and forth, or that someone random person saw it on the one forum since it is in a public area that you don't need to log in to see.  This is all speculation on my part.  Trust me, or do not.  It makes little or no difference to me.  As far as the bragging goes.  Eh, why not?  Its hard, and I know that.  There are almost certainly other people that can do what I did, but it is still difficult.  It does not matter how good you are, there will always be someone who is better.  It is honestly a bit scary to think that only I could complete that run.  I know I am a good player, but I'm not that good. This also brings up the question, are you trying to somehow discredit me with that claim?  I will assume that you are not, and are merely postulating on insufficient concrete data.  This post, unfortunately, can add nothing concrete, since I could be lying, but as before, I am hoping you trust me.  Decide for yourself.  Again, it makes little or no difference to me.  Have a nice day.  Kelvin Greyheart 13:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Droks Run is Harder and Warriors may be COMING BACK
Since the last update the 4 Avicara in the cave at the beginning of Lorner's Pass now remove 4 enchantments instead of 2 they also use interrupts now. Also at the end of Lorner's Pass the mobs are now spawning closer to the center instead of the sides making it more probable for a Grawl and Icegolem super attack to take you out. For those who don't know, if both Grawls and Icegolems attack the runner at the same time, they are probably going to die and their wont be anything they can do about it unless they get lucky. As a result, runners are now asking to increase the Droks Run's price to 3K instead of 2K maybe even more. The Balthazar Derv build will no longer work in this case. As for the Vow build, they will be able to make it past the cave at the beginning of Lorner's Pass but they will have a tough time getting past the end of Lorner's because of the Grawl/Icegolem ambush probability. I suggest that we revert back to using Warriors since they have 80 armor instead of 70 armor which will have a better probability of making it past the end of Lorner's Pass and that they use stances and not enchantments which will definitively work at the cave of Avicara enchantment removal (again 4 enchants will be removed) and their new interrupts. I have observed these new updates first hand using both the Vow build and the Balthazar build. So please lets lose the dresses, I am tired of running as a transvestite.
 * I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Unless they get lucky?  Ice golems are less than an annoyance at best with a VoS build, and since you are supposed to avoid the pinesouls anyways the only thing left is the grawl, which don't do much if you have a run buff on.  Kelvin Greyheart 22:18, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Refining this Article's Scope
In order to keep expanding the Running guides Section... I need to create an in-Depth and fully mapped out guide to running Drok's. ...which would seem at odds with keeping THIS article around but instead I'd like to propose a Glossary/General VS. "Strategy" Split and keep this Article for all Up-front warnings and notes about the run's purpose(for and against). For example: The Survivor Title is a very unlikely Acquisition for any lowby getting this Run and discussion about it would fit better in this Article. ....While exact running builds and/or classes would fit better in the new Guide I will be creating. (and Pricing frankly doesn't belong in Either so let's continue to keep that restricted to the Talk page). ...A big link will be placed in this article directing readers to the in-Depth Strategy article, just as soon as I figure out a suitable Title. --ilr(12,Jan.'09)

Survivor Title
It has been reported in other areas of this Talk Page that atleast one fairly low level character has made it through the Drok's Run with Survivor title in-tact. Infact there may be several ways to reproduce this reliably:
 * Both methods would likely need Guild-Members or other additional and/or experienced Human Players.
 * One method specifically designed to overcome the possibility of multiple Dolyak Masters spawning, may require lots of "cheez" by including several AotL+DN Necros and multiple inclusions of Enchantment stripping skills, -- or -- the Runner sacrificing himself directly under the Patrol spawn so that a can be summoned.
 * Another, and I suspect riskier but simpler method, is to again include AotL Necros, with /Ranger secondaries for the Pets, to instantly run downhill towards the static spawn of regular Stone Summits you have to run through anyway, and distract them long enough for "lowby" Survivor candidate to sneak past and safely stand in the narrow section of the path just before the intersection where all the Tundra Giants are located (This may require the Necros to sacrifice themselves instead though).
 * Bonus points to anyone who can squeeze in a Fail-Proof bonding Monk to keep the lowby alive. =P --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](15,Jan.'09)
 * just for your information. it is really easy to keep them alive. just make them stand back by the portal. the patrol won't run in to them if they do that. will be really really close but hey, it works. have done it myself once and have run a few friends to Dorks. none have died yet. Kurtan 22:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ....and "just for your information", You... Are... Mistaken. Infact after a dozen trials, it only worked - twice.  The Portal itself back to Lornar's is offset outward from it's Graphical indicator leaving you with literally "the Margin of Error" to stand on.  And that margin disappears entirely if the Patrol takes an odd formation.  This confirms what I said already, that there is no truly safe place to stand other than right outside the aggro range of the Tundra Giants. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](16,Jan.'09)

I have been working on a E/Mo build as a super-protter. I use Windborne Speed to boost their speed so they can break aggro on the first group to the right, and enough protection to easily make it through. Then, they stand in the safe area beyond until i finish the run. That way I can also run a regular group, minus the hero, in addition to the survivor. I am still in the testing phase, but results look promising.Chashak 01:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Tbh, I've run a guy who was a survivor. We made it through Dreadnought's- the only dangerous area- fine. All you have to do is stand in a corner close to the portal while the rest of the party doesn't aggro the group coming from the left, and the runner just keeps on running. It's not hard. -- Shadowcrest  01:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it is Shadowcrest, you should have read my reply right above yours, there is Screenshot proof that you're Wrong. Prefacing it with "to be honest" is anything BUT. --ilr


 * I've run a guildie who got survivor before. What we did was get half the guild (small guild) to attack the dolyaks and stay alive long enough for me to get to the zone. Took a couple tries though, which were due to the survivor zoning whenever they started dying. --Macros 11:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that's a ProTip that doesn't chance it to luck. Thanks for the helpful info Bro!  ...And to that E/Mo above, you should add that Build to the Full Droks guide, it sounds awesome --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](19,Mar.'09)
 * I love how you act as though a screenshot somehow invalidates my own personal experience. gg. --  Shadowcrest  23:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't. It invalidates the "TBH, it's not hard" BS. But thx for stoppin by --ilr
 * We had to rezone twice before it worked. Woo. I also find it interesting that you say that I'm the one stopping by <3-- Shadowcrest  19:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Not saying its not possible, but tonight after approx a dozen rezones we still didn't get an aggro free spawn and the Survivor left the party. After reading this I didn't expect it to take too long to get a safe spawn, but from personal experience they appear rare. Not gonna bother with Survivors any more. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.71.3.26 (contribs).

Okay covering all these intricacies is just Not Gonna Happen on the guide page but I'd like to remove the Pseudo-Research Template b/c it was never meant to be a permanent part of this page (plus it's a user template)... Adding a note in it's place that makes it clear that standing back by the portal is unreliable would be nice but I'll leave it up to someone else to phrase it properly. The current section seems to imply atleast half of the inherent danger... --ilr(7,Dec.'09)


 * I agree that this article isn't meant to cover all details; in my opinion, it only needs to highlight the fact that it's risky to survivors. However, I have rephrased the relevant paragraph to highlight that hanging around the portal is unsafe. Survivor candidates must be more risk-averse than the runner, so I agree that any tips should be repeatable by just about anyone.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

No risk survivor title
I have an elementalist hero build that, when added to the party, removes all reliance on spawn variance and chance. The only times I have failed is when the survivor actively did something stupid, against my direct order (like, say, running INTO a group once a safe area had been reached.)

E/Mo, with only 3 skills needed. Protective Spirit, Mark of Protection, and Windborne Speed, used in that order before the run through dreadnaught's. Then the survivor candidate runs to the right with the runner, protected fully by the enchantments. By the time the enchantments run out, they have broken aggro on the first mob. This leaves a very wide sfae area until the heretic patrol comes through. This is total overkill, but works to get then well into the zone, where they find a safe area (for a while, at least). by the time to patrol moves around to get them, any competent runner should be well into snakes dance. this works even without assistance from the rest of the group, but having the other members sow up the heretic patrol only increases the already large margin for error.

This method is tried and true, with very few holes - if any. the main downside (and i admit that it IS a big one) is that you must sacrifice a team slot. Chashak 15:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I believe that's what I originally hypothesized anyway, the safest method being to run  your whole group to right side past that stationary group of Summit and then have the survivor stand just outside the aggro range of the first huge group of Giants.  Not even the patrol should come into contact with them there... --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](4,Aug.'09)

Reasons for the Drok's run
You don't even need running skills for What Lies beneath. I actually never used a single running skill their. No matter where you are, you can just take henchies, fight to ogden and then follow the 2 dwarves. If the destroyers are getting too close, you just flag the henchies in their group to distract them. So... I don't really think that shouldn't be listed.--El_Nazgir 17:37, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Major overhaul
I took the liberty of overhauling the article because PRO reasons for the run really should appear earlier in the article than the CONs. As I attempted to re-order those sections, it was necessary to rephrase. In for a penny...here's the pound: &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 21:35, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * The PRO reasons have been moved to the top of the article; the CON reasons appear afterwards.
 * Both pro/con arguments have been bulleted, to make them easier to read
 * The CONs have been broken into subsections, removing some redundancies and making them (I hope) easier to read;
 * The max-armor alternatives have been bulleted and rephrased, separating the routes by campaign. The routes now include the required quests (whereas they were somewhat distinct before);
 * Time/Resource cost has been reduced to simply mentioning that ANet makes the run difficult (the rest was removed as unnecessarily editorializing);
 * The alternative route to Drok's has been stated more plainly (now including explanations as to why it's easier);
 * The risk to Survivors has been combined/compacted into a shorter argument. It now includes the most important caveat: make sure everyone knows that you have a survivor toon and that you can trust them to do the right thing.
 * A number of other phrases have been compacted or rephrased.