Talk:Avatar of Grenth

Well, I've put in the text command to redirect the page to the right location, but it doesnt seem to be working for some reason. Heres the discussion page Talk:Avatar of Grenth (Skill). Could someone either merge or redirect this page to the one I liked to? Mystic 21:32, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

This combines quite well with Wild Blow, No block or evade, strip 1 stance and 1 enchantment :)--GTPoompt 03:28, 27 November 2006 (CST)

I got uber-pwned on the Shadow Form bit. >.< Stupid game mechanics. Thanks for the catch though, guys. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:32, 28 November 2006 (CST)


 * Someone just changed the shadow form bit. Can we test this, or provide a screenie? --Armond Warblade (talk) 18:38, 25 January 2007 (CST)


 * Re-tested, you need to hit to remove an enchant. --Fyren 21:24, 25 January 2007 (CST)

As on Chilblains, what skills fall under "related", which don't, and why? --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:06, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * Keeping it to six was my main criteria, though that's what I arbitrarily chose as "short." I actually think six is too many and none of these quality for related, but that's a separate issue.  --Fyren 08:17, 11 December 2006 (CST)
 * I agree with you, after that it should be put into a quick reference list like what was done with Hex removal skills quick reference and then linked into the page through a related articles link. Xeon 08:22, 11 December 2006 (CST)
 * These avatar skills are giving me a headache. For one, most of what goes on one page has to go on all five (Template:God Avatar common notes, anyone?), and for another, we can't figure out all the related skills. Aren't DA and OoA on Hex Removal QR? If so, can they be removed? <-- Too lazy to check, and another 25+ wiki emails to go through --Armond Warblade (talk) 01:02, 12 December 2006 (CST)
 * They are on the list and im guessing you mean enchantment removal list >_>. Those two do very similar things to what avatar of grenth does, which is why they were left there. About the notes, eventually these pages will stop being modified once they have been finished in full. Xeon 01:19, 12 December 2006 (CST)
 * * points to enchantment comment* Whatever the hell it's called. It's too late to be thinking here. :P --Armond Warblade (talk) 01:24, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Does Twin Moon Sweep remove two enchantments or one with Avatar of Grenth up? --Kit Engel 00:12, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * Twin Moon Sweep will remove an enchantment off you if you have one active, while the avatar of grenth form (form is not an enchantment), will remove one off your target. These two skills do not interact in anyway when they are both used. Xeon 00:29, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ahh, thanks. Was just wondering if it'd bop two enchants off an enemy since it's two hits. Oh well, back to Order of Apostasy for normal usage, then. ^_^ --Kit Engel 01:54, 13 December 2006 (CST)
 * what about Sun and Moon Slash? would that remove 2 enchants? if for some reason you are a derv with a sword -.- --Samurai Snack 16:16, 17 December 2006 (CST)


 * Well, it doesn't say whenever you hit; it says whenever you use an attack skill. For both of the above skills, despite hitting twice, you have only used a single attack skill. Thus, I would assume 1 enchant removed from foe. If I'm wrong, then it's worded badly. ^_^ Hashmir 22:46, 10 January 2007 (CST)

"Wild Blow will guarantee your hit won't be blocked." Changed. Are we forgetting about a certain weapon spell? --LazySmuggler 17:25, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * Care to share with the rest of the class? Warding is the only one that can cause block but it still won't block wild blow.  --Fyren 18:50, 4 March 2007 (CST)


 * Maybe "Wild Blow will guarantee your hit won't be blocked" was being interpreted as "using Avatar of Grenth and Wild Blow will allow you to strip enchantments and stances fast enough that blocking won't be an issue" and the weapon spell being referred to is Weapon of Warding, which is still an issue because it can't be stripped. Or maybe "blocked" was misread as "prevented from hitting", in which case the comment could be referring to the blinding effect of Weapon of Shadow or the interruption effect of Wailing Weapon. -- Gordon Ecker 20:43, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Wild Blow can't be blocked...? --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:45, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Reversal of Fortune
Does this skill deal damage first or remove the enchant first? I'm asking because I want to know if Reversal of Fortune will trigger or just be removed.Two thousand health 13:49, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * Damage comes first ~ Kurd 14:08, 30 December 2006 (CST)

This elite isnt much use for AB anymore due to the nerfing (thanx ANET - NOT!!)--The light that blinds you 09:48, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * Grenth needed a nerf because it rendered so many builds utterly useless - boon prot monk, just about all elems, all other dervishes, etc. Cynical 07:59, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well maybe you all needed to die and everyone hates you with your enchantment stacks 128.200.40.21 12:38, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Yes, OoA has a chance now! Van Wark 15:33, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * RoF does nothing against Avatar of Grenth as it removes it before the damage takes place. Thank god for the nerf, now i can go back to monking without being scared everytime i see a dervish Our Lady of Health 19:51, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Reason for Nerf?
Does anybody understand why this skill got nerfed? I mean, its duration got cut by about a large amount. As far as I can tell its the only god form that got hit. I dont really understand A-nets reasoning behind this, as in my oppinion this was the weakest of the Dervish form skills. Am I missing some really big bonus that made this skill so much more rigged and in need of a nerf then any other god forms?Kelethan 19:35, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * In PvP, it was definitely the the most useful. --Fyren 19:44, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * In PvP, this skill had come to completely dominate the game. One person had compared the old version to an unstrippable 70 second Order of Apostasy, and that's about right. With a D/W Grenth Dervish, protting is basically useless. They'll cut through any enchants you try to use (and will cancel stances with Wild Blow), leaving the victim wide open for a Warrior train. To call it incredibly popular would be an understatement. More like, "mandatory for any team who wants to win in PvP". That's the reason for this change, although it still might not be enough. Time will tell. Arshay Duskbrow 21:12, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * I guess I can see that. I dont usually play an class that rely's on enchants, so I really didnt see its true usefulness.  Thanks for the clarification.Kelethan 13:01, 23 February 2007 (CST)

This skill is bit shitty now :/ InfestedHydralisk   14:47, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

This is why Anet needs to code the skills so that they only get nerfed in PvP - many fun skills to play and use in PvE have become completely useless in the 2+ years the game has been out because of this very reason. EOTN will help allieviate the problem with it's set of PvE only skills, but that doesn't help all the skills that have seent the nerf bat in the first three campaigns. HanokOdbrook 09:12, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Here's my proposed nerf/buff: "For xx to xx seconds, whenever you use an attack skill, you and target foe lose one enchantment." I think that would be coolness, especially and very enchantment skimpy builds. --Guild of Deals 13:16, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Re-Revamp
What a horrible nerf. Why didn't they do something along the lines of, 'Remove an Enchantment and Lose 5 eng' or something? Isis In De Nile 23:26, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Makes it too close to Spinal Shivers instead of Order of Apostasy. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:34, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

How about putting it back to 10...55 and boosting the disable time to 180 seconds? La va Ed ge 324 ++ 19:20, 12 May 2007 (CDT)


 * How about "If target foe is casting a spell, target foe loses one enchantment", then could they leave the skill as it was? Greevar 09:41, 22 June 2007 (CDT)


 * They should just remove this damn Elite all together now. It's so shitty. Either that or make so Enchantments and Hexes cannot be applied to you or something like that.--[[Image:Signature.jpg|30px]]NanoWarrior  (Talk • Contributions) 12:30, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

this makes for prolly the best skill against pvp bonder/prot/or any kind of regen(except for weapon spells). i cant see how anyone would say this skill is bad. just shows how ignorant you are of pvp strategy.


 * Erhem, please refer to the NPA, as you seem to be interested in not being ignorant of things. (68.63.233.200 19:42, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
 * God forbid we have a counter Areanet's precious Prot Monks!--63.229.7.188 00:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

AoE?
If I use Avatar of Grenth, and use a scythe attack skill vs a bunch of foes, my target gets hit and 2 other ones too, will the other 2 loose one enchantment as well? SpriteSODA

Rit Spell Bug
I used this then used a ritualist spell and the scythe changed to a weapon spell scythe. Then when it ended the scythe returned to normal, then when the form ended i had the scythe i was using with grenth. Also, what would happen if i used this with a non dervish, would i use a staff as grenth? ‎ Fire  Tock  20:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What rit spell? --Gimmethegepgun 20:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're in a form, your weapon doesn't change (unless you cast a wep spell...) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 20:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I used Nightmare Weapon.--‎ Fire</tt>  To</tt>ck</tt>  21:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That means when casting Avatar your weapon did not change. After you cast Nightmare Weapon, you got the Wep Spell Scythe. Then when Nightmare Weapon ended, you got your "normal" scythe back. Then when Avatar ended, your Scythe did not change. That is the normal case, at least. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 21:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Nerfed into pointlessness
GG Anet. --69.133.105.149 20:38, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Who are you and why do you fail so much? - 80.192.83.173 21:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * GW:NPA Guys <B><font color="FF0099">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  21:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to admit, unblockable isn't that awesome a reason to want to use an avatar... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.129.50.54 (contribs).
 * Well, I didn't like AOG anyway, seemed a sucksauris to me <B><font color="FF0099">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  21:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Unblockable is a fucking fantastic reason to use an avatar, izzy's punishing sinsplit and blockway this update tbh. Lord of all tyria 21:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it could be interesting in GvG... Anti Blockway, and also eliminates the Melandru tax. [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 21:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * ::Sidles over to ward::&mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥<font color=MAGENTA>Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 21:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This should stop people being so aegis/SoD happy at least. Lord of all tyria 21:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is awesome vs monks :P. Now you can use this for block enchants and wild blow for stances. A much needed buff. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 21:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

AoG + Sight Beyond Sight = Monk pwnage. I think this might be actually equal to Lyssa now for monk pwnage.Big Bow 21:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back to PvP Avatar of Grenth, we missed you. - Kalle Damos
 * People that didn't abuse it missed it? --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest  22:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I never got a chance to abuse it, and by the time I even was that far in nightfall, it had been nerfed into oblivion. Now I can use it in PvE and PvP...
 * Excelent buff. Two Thumbs up.
 * Buff? I hope you're being sarcastic.  Enchantment removal is 100x better than unblockability against enchanted foes (seeing as rangers are rarely enchanted and monks used blocking enchants).  I want my signet of capture back. :(  --Seventh 23:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is most definitely a buff, because simply... AoG was WORTHLESS before this update due to nerfage --Gimmethegepgun 23:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) R u serious maet? This > 30s avatar any day of the week. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="#FF6699">Shadowcrest 23:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You know what is so wrong with avatars in pvp? It's that usually when they wear out, you can't do crap because builds are designated around it. (I.e. Melandru dervs with Wearying Strike) Moreover, when it recharges you have a 2 seconds casting time asking for a brutal interupt in the heat of battle. I sincerly think this is way better than the 30 seconds remove enchant avatar since the cooldown was way too long. AND since you deal COLD Damage you can use a D/E with Conjure for Extra dmg without the drawback from losing Vampiric or Sundering Scythe Snathe Or even a D/N with Spinal Shivers for those who dare ... and do not fear energy management.Big Bow 23:38, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, this was a buff, still useless though. Unblockability is not enough of a reason to use this over mel of lyssa rly. Mr IP 03:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * 90% of GvG builds say otherwise. Tycn 07:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Tycn your wrong. 99% say otherwise :P. This buff put AoG back into meta. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 12:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Orly? I still see a crap load more mel dervs then grenth dervs so I guess it's not 99%. Mr IP 03:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * GvG builds as in the blockway that most teams run. Which makes the new AoG a bit more than useless. And certainly superior to AoL. Tycn 09:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see them both being run, and Mr IP im talking about GvG. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 12:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can bloody read. I've seen one AoG derv in observer mode, compared to about ten mel dervs. This isn't as useless as I initially made it out to be so just drop it. Mr IP 22:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

This realy is worse than the rest as they at least all have 3 effects, and 3 good working ones..., at least they should have made it so that you are unblockable by enchantments and stances. --213.137.123.149 01:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Cold Damage
Tested with Avatar of Grenth, Conjure Frost and an IMS while hitting a running target with an icy scythe and zealous scythe respectively. -- -- talkpage 13:20, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I was with him, and he struck 80 with his Zealous Scythe, AoG + Conj. He dealt +15 damage with his Conj Frost, and he indeed struck 95 with his Icy Scythe, AoG + Conj. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 13:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * :(, that is bad... anyone tried to see with melandru for earth damage ? I suggest u try with the +10 Earth Insignia. Big Bow 20:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Or could test by having an elemental scythe, the conjure for that element, and see if you get the bonus damage --Gimmethegepgun 20:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Or bring a hero with EDA and mimic it --Gimmethegepgun 20:53, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Go Go Conjure Earth much? Mel doesnt have a Conjure. Taht would make it I M B A-er --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not using Mantra of Earth ? Big Bow 20:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * btw lol @ Conjure Earth :P Big Bow 20:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Much easier to just go smack the test dummies. Anyway, EDA worked with Mel, so.... --Gimmethegepgun 20:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

02/06 update
what, specifically, does "you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes" mean? does that mean that your *attacks* cannot be blocked by foes who are enchanted, or does that mean that they literally cannot bodyblock you? --Eudas 01:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Can't block your attacks..

"Anomaly! You do not deal Cold damage..."
That's a bug, not an anomaly, right...? --- -- (s)talkpage  02:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"PvP, PvE split
Anyone else agree this skill needs a PvP, PvE split like other skills have gotten. I mean yeah its quite useful in PVP but in PvE it's pointless as enemies rarely use enchants to block anyway.
 * I agree. This skill honestly isn't even that good in PvP unless you're in TA and then it's only good against monks. PvE of this skill needs a major buff.
 * I agree too, there are several overpowered skills that have a PvE/PvP split which lets people still use them normally without being affected by the nerf bat. The PvE should be removing enchants and the PvP should be what it is now.DrJamming 17:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like something like "Your attacks cripple foes for 3 seconds, deal cold damage and do +20 additional cold damage for PvE -Knuckle Joe
 * I'd give back the old Avatar of Grenth for PvE, since mass enchant removal could definitely be useful in HM at least. For PvP they need...something new functionality, again. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Would this be affected by Conjure Frost?
Now that this avatar has been corrected to allow the user to actually deal cold damage, would the damage dealt be enhanced by Conjure Frost or does it not constitute "a cold weapon"? SlothIncarnate 17:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, Conjures work that way. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:08, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

12/12 Update
60 health gain per attack anyone? TarEnethil 13:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill really needed a buff. I imagine this could be quite useful when attacking multiple enemies. SlothIncarnate 18:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Deactivating R.O.X. = ~30 lifesteal, hawt [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ROX is a joke anyway. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 18:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And now all they need to do is give the pvp version a 3~5 lifesteal and it should see use in pvp --212.62.54.251 19:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Couple it with Conjure Frost, and there's ~30 armor-ignoring damage per attack. You could take a couple D/E Heroes with AoG and Conjure Frost and you wouldn't need someone spamming Orders (and it wouldn't help, anyway). Imo, this makes one of the most universal melee for PvE; it has anti-blocking and provides its own damage buffs and healing. ــѕт. мıкε  21:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * there's ~30 armor-ignoring damage per attack
 * orly? where? Conjure Frost does cold damage, which does not sound armor ignoring to me...
 * I tried this on Master of Damage, and managed over 400 damage in one second. That's without the Conjure. Me like tbh --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 11:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC) If anyone wants proof I've the screenie to back me up :) --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 11:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Conjures deal armor ignoring elemental damage, ever since the Conjure damage got joined with the base attack damage/bonus damage packet (i.e. It's now 1 hit, rather than 2). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * So if Olias give me Splinter Weapon, with a Conjure I could have more yellow numbers than a Splinter Barrager? --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 00:09, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Used to, yes. As I said, the Conjure damage is now in the same packet as base damage. sorry for confusing you ^^" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)