Talk:Guide to evolving a pet/Archive - Guide to evolving a dire pet

Discussion
hmhmhmhm, move it or not... IMO its a guide, but... its also a build, your right. so... can a build have a ? HJT 09:13, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * If you look at the other articles in Category:Guides, it's pretty clear that this article doesn't match the format of any of them, but it does fit the format of a build almost exactly. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:17, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * yup, ur kinda right. if its a guide, it should be usable for all professions. lets move! but only how? ur turn ;) HJT 09:20, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Was the proposed name acceptable? I just made one up that sorta' fit. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:21, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * well, of course it is! dont know if i could come up with a better ;) HJT 09:23, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Oh, to clarify - I don't know if a guide would need to be useable by all professions - although I guess any of them could have a ranger secondary with a pet. But I've seen other builds and evolution suggestions on other site forums.  To me, a guide should be generic enough to support multiple different builds that could work. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:30, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
 * i c, im not the only one having problems bringing the perfect words (so that they actually say what i ment with all sub- and sub-sub-thoughts) to, uhm... 'paper' ;) HJT 09:44, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

Do we have to test this? Oo I like my spider and tiger! &mdash; Skuld 01:10, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Of course you can also test this with a lvl20 pet. IMO tho only problem may be that the minos go after birdy/kitty/crabby... HJT 07:52, 7 August 2006 (CDT)

support guide move. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 21:47, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
 * hmhm, we had the discussion above... what if we just add the tag? but then again we have the naming policies... so... again my statement: let it as a build, as it does not meet the requirements of a guide. a guide should be usable for all professions, not just rangers... if we wanna get guidy, we should think of builds for all classes and write em down here. HJT 01:13, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

It's not like this is a bad guide or anything, but it's a bit confining. Namely, to an R/Mo or at the very least to a primary Ranger; supposedly you could work this with a Mo/R as well, but what about other primaries? I have three pets, one each for my two primary Rangers and one for a secondary - all of them Dire. I just maxed Beast Mastery, sank Bow Mastery to zero, used Call of Protection and ground Mergoyles directly outside of the Gates of Kryta to evolve the pet to aggressive and dire; worked for all three. I'm not necessarily knocking this build, I just wonder if there's a need for one specific build for the very general purpose of evolving a pet to Dire. This build allows your pet to do a lot of damage and take very little of it - but you can do the same with a high level of Beast Mastery for damage, Call of Protection to negate damage and lastly a bow or wand to target with. Pet-keeping 101, yo. --Black Ark 02:41, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * gimme a faster method ;) HJT 03:29, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It's not the speed of the method that I'm questioning, because I'll admit that it took me quite a few hours to get all three of my pets to 15 on just those Mergoyles. What I mean is though, that this particular build of yours is only suitable for a primary Ranger, or perhaps a Mo/R. An A/R, W/R or E/R to name a few feasible pet-using classes (and for that matter, any other secondary Ranger) will find little to no use in this build. They'll come to this wiki, search for a way to get their pet to Dire, and then... they find out they're boned because they're not Ranger/Monks? Again, the Ranger-class itself has some great means of evolving pets one way or another (again, Call of Protection can make all the difference). A general "R/Any" or "Any/R"-build would be much, much more welcome. --Black Ark 04:52, 14 August 2006 (CDT) 04:51, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * therefore i dont want this not as a guide but a build :) well, if u want something, do it ;) wiki 101, yo. ;) HJT 05:27, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

The arguement that this should not be a guide, since it only applies to one profession is moot, since we have guides to trapping and MMing. However looking at the page it still looks much more like a build than a guide to me. Something I would like to see is a rough approximation of the time needed to get the pet to 15. --Xeeron 05:03, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

I just realised that there is an error in this guide: it mentions an old trick about letting the animal kill you to level it to dire. This is no longer possible.

the 2 Pet-Attacks with the highest dmg per time
IMO its feral lunge and svavenmger strike. (only for this special situation, as minos always attack) damage over 30secs:

2x Feral Lunge: 2x37=74 +bleeding: 30x6=180, total: 254 5x Scavenger Strike: 5x42=210

total damage from skills: 464dmg. HJT 10:11, 4 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I used Feral and Enraged... I didn't do Deserts Minos either, just stuck with the frost ones. Silk Weaker 05:11, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, problem with enraged is the energy management. and why frost minos? go straight for the desert ones, gives more XP ;) HJT 05:18, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

free beer any1? ;)
as i promised after correctig too many mistakes in my own text, free beer for any1 who comes to zurich (switzerland). sign up on my talk page HJT 10:41, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

Is there a variation for who doesn't have the access to a Factions account?
 * Not really, spirit bond is key &mdash; Skuld 09:24, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I guess you could do it by going 55: Bring healing breeze or mending for spirit bond and use the 55 mechanic to deal with damage taking. However you need the superior runes for that and I have no idea how that would work out with regards to energy (but my guess is, not that much worse that spirit bond). --Xeeron 05:03, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

55monk works, had to drop Call of Haste, so its a bit slower. (Xantalas)

Guide?

 * ok, was just hitted with this idea: if this should be a guide, we must get builds for other classes too. if we have for about 4-6 classes a build to tank the minos in elona reach, we move to guide :)

the builds will be assembled on this page: R/Mo Dire Pet Evolver/Builds. This page will be stubbed and handled as a creative playground ;) HJT 05:10, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * ok, new link: Guide to evolving a Dire Pet/Builds [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png]]HJT (talk) 05:25, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

Armour level
This build states that it works even with max armour, however trying it with my ranger I found that I rarely triggered enough damage to activate spirit bond (with Droks Druids armour). Is this me being a moron in some way or is the guide wrong and lower-levelled armour is necessary? RossMM 12:12, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 * If you read carefully, it says to go naked with only a mask and either boots or gloves, meaning that 75% of the time, Spirit Bond will trigger. I missed it my first read through too. --Thervold 12:19, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah I wondered about that phrase, but the wording perhaps isn't explicit enough (for some of us ;¬) ). Thanks for pointing that out RossMM 12:22, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

Quick Question
Wasn't there an update a little while ago thats means things that kill you no longer level up, so making lvl 20 in pre searing impossible, and the "et them get dire on you" start fail?Asmodeus 13:58, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

the foe leveling is able again. - Coran Ironclaw 06:37, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Comments moved from article into talk page
Well, I have spent the past 2 hours with a level 5 Dune Lizard outside of Seekers Passage, it has killed me around 50 times and it is still level 5, Sooo, I think that this must have been changed and no longer works... Bex &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.59.237.158 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:41, October 3, 2006 (CDT).
 * A while ago they made an update that changed it so monsters cannot level up, the largest effect this update had was changing it so that you could no longer reach level 20 in pre-searing, as the monsters in pre-searing would stop giving you exp once you got to a high enough level, so you would have to let the monsters kill you until they levelled before you could kill them for exp. It would seem that the intent of this update was to prevent pre-searing levelling but I can't imagine why Anet would care, perhaps it was just a glitch that monsters could gain exp. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.118.115.71 (talk &bull; contribs) 08:56, October 20, 2006 (CDT).

Guide or a Build?
This article started as a guide, was moved to a build article, then back to being a guide - but the content is still clearly layed out as multiple builds, not as a guide. To me, this should either be moved back to being a build article, or all of the builds yanked out and put in their own article(s) linked to from this one. I see that Build:Guide to evolving a Dire Pet/Builds exists as an article, but it's just more builds that are in an article that also fails to follow our build naming conventions. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:58, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
 * This article is still written as a mish-mash of both a guide and builds. The builds should be fully removed, and inserted into true build articles.  Note: If the authors don't care enough about this article to fix it themselves, I will be forced to fix it for them. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:42, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've added a delete tag. It needs to either be cleaned up, or deleted. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:23, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Level 15 Dire Lion in under 15 minutes
This requires Nightfall, and can not be done after completing The Great Zehtuka quest.

Today, I went to Jahai Bluffs, just north of the exit from the Command Post. There is a large group of lvl 12 Aggressive Lion/Lioness there, and all are tagged as hostile. By moving all henchies away (off of radar), but keeping a healer hero nearby (with only Orison of Healing, Healing Breeze, and Resurrect loaded), I took out all but one Lion (or if you want, a Lioness). I disabled the healing skills of Dunkoro, leaving him only there to resurrect me when I died. I then took off all my armor, and wielded a vamp bow (not required). Once at 60% dp, the lion was able to kill me in 1 or 2 hits. After the lion was at lvl 15, I moved Dunkoro away and brought over my hero that needed a pet. The hero was easily able to tame it before dying.

I plan on doing this same thing tomorrow to get my R an instant lvl 20 Dire Lion. I am guessing it might take maybe 30 minutes more to get the lion to level 20. With both a prot and heal hero helping me, I should be able to live long enough to put my armor back on. At lvl 14, the lion was already doing 35-45 dmg a hit. At 60% dp, you only have 48 hp once resurrect is cast. :P Queen Schmuck 05:58, 26 December 2006 (CST)


 * I did this with my ranger, except I used a touch ranger build (replaced res sig with charm animal) and brought one hero with healing sig and resurrect and 12 points in tactics. I then killed all of the lions/lionesses except for one. After that I removed my armor and went afk for about 20 minutes.  When I got back I had a lvl 20 dire lion.  I put my armor back on and kited for a few seconds to regen health.  Then I used dodge>charm animal and the lion was mine. --Jogden 21:18, 4 January 2007 (CST)

when dire dos it change??

 * im doing the "die a hundred times method" and then charm seems to work, but i have a question, once my pet is lvl 20 and is dire wil i ever be able to change to lets
 * say harty or something oris rhy 16:27, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * No, you will have to charm another pet if you want a different evolution. --Jogden 21:21, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Resurrection shrine method
I tried this method and it didn't work. As soon as I step onto the resurrection shrine, the animal runs away. If I stand beside the shrine and let it kill me, it runs away as soon as I'm resurrected. The hero method works fine, however. The monk kites the animal and it quickly returns its attention to me. - Bcstingg 10:39, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Update: When I returned, I was at a resurrection shrine and Dunkoro was back at the flag with 15% DP. However, there was a level 15 "Dire Tiger" ready to be charmed. I'm not sure what went awry while I was AFK. - Bcstingg 16:24, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * do it like this. DUNKORO --> YOU --> ANIMAL. go stand in that order so u are between the pet and dunkoro. flag dunkoro so he stands just at the edge of your agro circle. dunkoro must be set to passive and must ONLY HAVE RESSURECT active, shift+click the rest of his skills. next target the animal and use charm animal, BUT EMIDIATLY CANCEL IT, now the pet is aggresive to u. take off all your armor and let it kill u. cos dunkoro is just inside your range and just outside the animal's he wil rez u inside the agro range of the animal, so it attacks u again. let it kill u again, rez again, kill, rez, kil, rez and so on untill it is lvl 20. u will not see the prefix (Dire) untill u have charmed it. hope this helps oris rhy 08:25, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * Way too much work! Just give dunkoro a healing signet + 12 tactics and ressurect.  Set him to passive and stand in his aggro circle.  Then take off your clothes and you're free to go afk.  The animal will always aggro back to you because of your decreased armor level.  This method worked fine for me and I don't see how anyone would have a problem with it. --69.151.145.169 13:10, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * u just repeated me in other words cheers >< oris rhy 18:47, 9 January 2007 (CST)

nf update
some of this been hit with the nerf stick :: Soqed Hozi :: 

WHY?!
Why would a monk/necro/anyone else besides a ranger want a dire pet? Pointless. &mdash;Blastedt&mdash; 12:38, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * I so have to say this, for fun :) -- Xeon 12:43, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * .............&mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 12:46, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * my warrior likes a dire pet, good for using iway and causing extra damage. Also my necro often likes a lil' dire pet, why not? my paragon wans a dire pet to add damage and my dervish might like one also.  :: Soqed Hozi :: 
 * I totally love that death levelling method - simply to see Dunkoro get owned by a level 10 stalker! ^^ ~ Nilles (msg) 14:50, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Delete
This should be deleted, beacause spirit bond is nerfed. and the whole point of this is spirit bond (actually). -- Sigm@  (talk|contribs) 13:36, 23 January 2007 (CST)

silly to delete an entire article b/c you feel 1 thing in the article no longer applies. how about editing the concern over spirit bond? its a good page with a wealth of information. deletion seems rather heavy handed for a popular and useful article. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.233.199 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:45, January 23, 2007 (CST).


 * Popular? There are builds for evolving a dire pet in our builds section. Well the R/Mo one(probably archived by nerf of spirit bond) and this "guide" is unneeded, as these builds already exist. -- Sigm@ [[image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:47, 23 January 2007 (CST)


 * If the builds are stripped out and only guide content remained, then I could see keeping this as a guide. Otherwise, scrap it entirely, and create true build entries in the build namespace. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:48, 23 January 2007 (CST)

section 2, 3, 4, 5 are not about builds. not sure deleting 100% of an article b/c of 20% of the content (section 1) achieves what you want. maybe it does. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.233.199 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:50, January 23, 2007 (CST).
 * Section 1 and 2 both contain builds - those comprise nearly 80% of the article length - only 20% is actual guide.
 * As I said, I can see keeping the article if the build content is removed, leaving only guide content. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:57, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Just move it to another page or something, but I still don't believe this deserves his own page. and mr anonymous, sign your comments by typing four 's, ty. -- Sigm@  (talk|contribs) 14:56, 23 January 2007 (CST)

"Evolving a Dire Pet" has had its own page on wiki since Aug 2006. sorry. if you get it deleted, ppl will just go other places for the guide. Dire pets are something rangers want. my guess would be you dont play a ranger or you would understand why this guide is on wiki. and why its not able to be covered in the builds. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.233.199 (talk &bull; contribs) 15:01, January 23, 2007 (CST).
 * Older articles that this have been deleted and/or totally redone. Age of article is not a deciding factor.
 * Also, if you look at the history in the talk page - you can see that since Aug 2006, the fact that the article contains builds has been an issue with many users. Build content belongs in the build namespace.  In its current form, this is neither a true build entry, nor written like a true guide.  It's a mixed-up mess pulling pieces of both.  Clean it up to only guide content, and the problems go away. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:05, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Removed the section 1 builds as Barek requested. 24.209.233.199

I know that this "guide" was here since Agust 2006, and I do know that rangers want a dire pet(if they want a pet, they suck, they only lure mobs and are weak as ****) and there used to be a build for the dire pet, but I couldn't find it, so for more information please check that build, but that build is nerfed because of the change in spirit bond, and the rest of this article is irrelevant. Everyone knows hoe to lvl a pet. -- Sigm@  (talk|contribs) 15:10, 23 January 2007 (CST)


 * As the builds have been purged; I have no objection now to keeping the article. It does need considerable cleanup; but then many articles require that.
 * For those wanting to view builds, it may be useful to either have a "Related articles" section that points to build articles that exist in the build namespace (like most other guide articles do), or to create new build articles over there that could be linked from here once they're vetted. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:44, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Took less than 60 min for someone to start posting build suggestions in this24.209.233.199
 * That's not a suggested build, just a list of optional skills for specific purposes. A give away that it's not a build is that there are more skills listed than you could equip at one time. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:49, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * ive cleaned up the page properly and added it to my watchlist, hopefully its format now is less conducive to people adding tons of similar builds. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 16:51, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * i like a lot how it is now. - Coran Ironclaw 16:29, 24 January 2007 (CST)

The 'Resurrection shrine method' discussion on this page has helped me more than the article itself. I went out as R/N ('Order of Pain' skill, to sacrifice myself in front of the pet one time, far away from any shire) with Dunkoro who had the simple 'Resurrect' (fast casttime and only 25% health) and 2 disabled healing skills and then idled 50 min and got my dire level 17 warthog that was level 5 before. Think the article should be updated and the sacrifice method should get more attention. Faster to level an untamed pet than an already tamed one. --Birchwooda Treehug 12:24, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Redesign, or reorder to reflect the effectiveness of Death Levelling
I think we should reorder the captions to reflect the effectiveness of the methods. Death levelling is really what we want to promote. It might appear "lame" compared to all the work you used to put into dire pets, but really, it is the most effective way. After that, I guess there is the life-stealing/degen method and last but not least the so called "standard" way. Give it a though. ~ Nilles (msg) 15:51, 20 February 2007 (CST)