Talk:Skull Crack

Ok, it makes the foe dazed, but does it actually interrupt them? That is to say, does the damage hit first, or does the dazed hit first? We all know that if you take damage while Dazed, you are interrupted, and this attack causes both Dazed and damage, so if the dazed comes first then this attack will definitely interrupt, but if the damage comes first, then it might not, unless there's an "interrupt" component to it that the description neglected to mention... anyone care to shed some light on this? 149.169.88.9


 * The spell will get interrupted. Added a note.  --Fyren 19:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Broad Head Arrow and Temple Strike, make this elite look very weak. And it was very underused to begin with ... --Xeeron 20:24, 31 March 2006 (CST)
 * If they made the duration the same as BHA this skill might be worth considering. Already sucks at 10 seconds, not to mention using it on Tyrian bosses and having it end in 5.  Come on Anet... --SK [[Image:Monk-icon-small.png]]  13:17, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Even comparing to Concussion Shot, Skull Crack is still inferior. Concussion shot, for the likely levels of marksmanship you'll have, it lasts longer than 15 seconds. Plus, a very skilled player could hit a 1 sec cast time spell, while skull crack is highly by luck and timing. Plus, Concussion shot isn't an elite skill. So, I suggest either removing the elite status, or make it work like Broad Head Arrow, unconditional adding of the Dazed condition. --8765 01:06, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

Another note. As rangers often carry Apply Poison or even Melandru's Arrows, you are getting free covers for your skill.

Meh, that A/W comment is silly, because Beguiling Haze does the same thing (except costing adrenaline) and isn't linked to a Warrior attribute. Also, it sucks just as bad. Shido 10:02, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Neither is skullcrack. Skull Crack lasts longer even at 0 attribute. Haze is only better if it's 14 levels more.--Silk Weaker 02:04, 25 January 2007 (CST)

the icon...
it looks more like a "Face Punch" skill, that can be used without weilding a weapon, than "Skull Crack" o_O""" I know where *my* skull is. - 12:46, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Hey, If I crack your jaw open with my fist, I think your skull would be feeling it too. I use it because its funny, and not many people expect warriors to be causing daze. Lorik 12:55, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
 * "I use it because its funny." Same reason I use Point Blank Shot. Also, any reason why the name is bolded in the notes? Jmz 03:46, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Other Page produces a link, Same Page produces bold text. Bolding all instances of the page name with self-referencial links is acceptable under style and formatting, but the style guidelines aren't explicitly for or against it. -- Gordon Ecker 05:55, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It says generally only the first instance should be linked, not every time something is used in the article. If having a link in a specific place is useful, then it's fine to link again.  --Fyren 06:16, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
 * what kind of a skill would be called "Face Punch"? for 1-15 seconds, your target suffers from Ugly? Skull Crack implies beating someone about the smart-making area. Animate Flesh Golem looks nothing like a Flesh Golem (minion) --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 13:19, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

this skill needs a buff

I'm pretty sure if you nail a good upper-cut to someone's jaw, it rattles the brain case, causing a knockout, or in the case of GW, a Daze, meaning you probably don't need to actually hit the skull. I don't know about punching the cheek, though... And yeah, this skill needs some serious buff. I doubt the adrenaline would go down, though, as ANet likes to keep Dazing skills pricey. DancingZombies 20:41, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Attack faster?
Would someone care to explain how using Protector's Strike in conjunction with this skill will cause a warrior to attack faster? -- James Sumners 11:15, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Not that I think it's useful, but the 1/2s activations will allow you to use those three attacks in a row much faster than three normal attacks. Remove it if you want.  ---Fyren 11:20, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That makes sense. It just wasn't registering with me how they cause a faster attack rate. It doesn't bother me if the note is there. -- James Sumners 11:49, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Useful for quick spike damage I guess. A bit like how Rangers use Savage Shot right after Dual Shot. It's proberbly not worth a mention though. --SK [[Image:Monk-icon-small.png]] 11:22, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Warrior adrenal attack with activation time
There is no other warrior adrenal attack with an activation time. The only other adrenal attacks with activation times are paragon attacks. --Fyren 05:53, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * I missed the Adrenal part. LoyalSoldier 15:49, 8 January 2007 (CST)

To buff or not to buff?
I still love this skill, even if it only dazes for 10 seconds. It will interrupt anything (though only dazing on spells), costs nothing but Adrenaline, goes excellently on non-Warrior primaries because of its unlinked attribute, and it has that nice activation time. It goes along very well with Disrupting Chop and Distracting Blow to constantly keep your foe's skills interrupted. Give it to an Assassin or Dervish hero and watch then annoy enemy spellcasters to no end.

Also, in Prophecies/Core skills, this probably wins over Hundred Blades for general usefulness against single targets or ones that don't like to group up.


 * Compare to Concussion Shot - using this when you aren't a Ranger primary is energy suicide, and even primary Rangers shouldn't spam this without a Zealous bow or Marksman's Wager. Concussion Shot has a linked attribute and it is quite costly if it misses or doesn't Daze. Concussion Shot won't interrupt non-Spells.
 * Compare to Beguiling Haze - it's still expensive, since it is not an attack and thus unaffected by Critical Strikes. Beguiling Haze causes an automatic Dazed. But, the dazed duration is pitifully short, especially for it being a linked attribute. On a boss with Natural Resistance, it would last for...what...3 seconds? Maybe 4? Skull Crack lasts for 5, no attribute points needed. Costs no energy.

So, yeah, I think Skull Crack is just fine the way it is now. Entropy 23:19, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Why you didn`t compared it to Broad Head Arrow? Arrow don`t need target casting spells in order to make Dazed. Also 9 adrenaline is really big amount (0 energy <> no cost - like signets), it could take quite long before you will be able to use it. Concussion Shot got drawbacks, but it ISN`T elite. And then if you didn`t interrupt spell with Skullcrack, you must start building adrenaline again (try interrupt monk with his 1/4 sec cast spells). Oh, one more thing, GW is PvP game and skills should be fitted to PvP and then they can be used in PvE, so complaining about short Dazed duration on bosses is ridiculous. Anyway, most time you won`t have enough adrenaline to Daze boss directly in beginning of fight + you must to make way to it (without Shadow Step in some places its nearly impossible due to snares) + you must hit when boss is casting spell (not signet or something like that, people often makes mistakes in using spell-interruption skills on non spells). Broad Head Arrow will just make it Dazed no matter if you have adrenaline and will do it from range. So what`s the deal in making Warrior to interrupter/dazer when Ranger (and Mesmers) are doing this a lot better? --DragonLord 08:54, 5 February 2007 (CST)
 * What Entropy said about Concussion Shot applies to BHA also. It's an energy drain without high expertise. &mdash; [[image:Offering of Spirit.jpg|19px]] Azaya 15:21, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Also, saying GW is a PvP game only is ridiculous. Skills are and should be fitted to both PvE and PvP, not just one or the other. I play PvP only when I have to and yet I have about 3,000 hours logged. &mdash; [[image:Offering of Spirit.jpg|19px]] Azaya 15:23, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Not only, but saying that skills should be adjusted to PvE IS ridiculous. Skill that are stronger/overpowered or exploataible in PvE (like Barrage, which is one of best skills in PvE and quite weak elite for Ranger in PvP, or PS on 55hp, which makes him invincible) are ok, as it will not ruin the balance. But skills that are overpowered etc. in PvP WILL ruin PvP (mostly becouse of making certain build way more effective than others). Skills are buffed/nerfed in 90% because of its usage in PvP gaming. PvE or PvP - which is better - its only decisions of player. But balance in PvP >>> balance in PvE. --DragonLord 08:50, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * The biggest difference between Skull Crack and those two Entropy listed are the adrenal/energy costs. Concussion, BHA and Beguiling Haze can (almost) instantly start combat with one dazed foe, albeit expensively (as it should be). Skull Crack on the other hand, takes time to charge up, but once it inflicts daze, you're not only interrupting them with your attacks, but getting adrenaline from those hits to charge it up again. All things considered though, it's adrenaline cost could be dropped 20 points (to 200 points or 8 strikes) and it still wouldn't have much of an impact other than making PvE spellcasters slightly easier to take out. --220.233.103.77 09:42, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Did you forget that Broad Head Arrow has a very high arc and misses a lot, and you need to get pretty damn close, like Shortbow range, to have any consistent accuracy? Also note the long recharge time - 15 seconds. In 15 seconds you could use Skull Crack at least two times, more with IAS or something like For Great Justice. Broad Head Arrow can only interrupt Spells. It's brutal to use Broad Head Arrow on any class other than a Ranger Primary. Compare to Skull Crack - any melee-range class can use it very effectively, it is much easier to build up 9 adrenaline than to regain 15 energy, Skull Crack can be used with a wider variety of weapons, Skull Crack has no linked attribute. Use it on a Dervish - you can daze up to three targets at once. Use it on an Assassin - with fast Dual Attacks and Double Strikes, you'll generate Adrenaline very quickly. An R/W Thumper-class character could even use it well. Broad Head Arrow is terribly overrated...so is PvP. Btw, Skull Crack used to pwn in PvP before the other Dazed skills came out. Got my team 15 consecutive wins in RA...not that that's saying much, but at the time it was pretty cool. Lastly, there's nothing hard at all about interrupting spells with Skull Crack - even 1/4 ones. If you've ever needed the reflexes to do so you know that it takes some experience but after awhile it's easy as pie. And the last I heard, Mesmers don't cause Dazed. Entropy 00:05, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * I concur with most of what Entropy says. One of the powerful points of this skill is that the Dazed condition can be unsuspectedly inflicted by a warrior.  Couple this with the Warrior's ability to both receive and deal massive damge, as well as sprint/run down foes, and you can easily have a player who puts down opposing players on a one on one basis.  Even a slightly experienced player will larn to expect a ranger to interrupt skills (with or without BHA) - whereas an interrupt, much less a "daze," in less expected from a warrior.  In many PVP sessions, the standard "whammo" is ignored and left to battle the opposing team's whammo(s).  In such a situation, use your overlooked status to use Skull Crack to put down casters.  This skill has a place in PVP - and if you don't accept that, you may very well find yourself going against it. Please pardon all typos.--Ninjatek 00:28, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Unfortunately, such tactics only work in small scale, or chaotic areas, such as RA, TA and AB, possibly even HA, but HA Monks will carry condition removal. As for you Entropy, Skull Crack used to have a 10 adrenaline strike cost and normal attack time, leaving anything less than 2 seconds cast time almost impossible to hit without an IAS, and was thus buffed three times since release due to the fact that it was unreliable at best, and a wasted elite slot at worst. Lastly, even if Mesmers can't cause daze, they certainly can emulate its effects. Thus, while it may be advantageous to daze a foe, sometimes its better to play to your professions strengths rather than balance your build to prepare for every occasion.--220.233.103.77 03:14, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Skull Crack has been available before Enchanter's Conundrum or Frustration. Arcane Conundrum is an Illusion skill with a long cast time and fairly high energy cost, meh. Migraine is not a good substitute for easily applied Dazed, its cast time is long and Hex Removal ends it quick, it also doesn't increase your damage output (directly). My post was in response to a lot of the above that say "Skull Crack sucks" even as it is now. Regardless of how many times it has been buffed in the past (I was aware of those, thank you very much), some people still claim it's a stupid elite. And I say it isn't. Read my post more carefully - I'm all for using Skull Crack and I'm not asking for a buff of anykind. I'm trying to convince folks that as it is now, Skull Crack is a good skill. I'm not asking for more buffs. >< Moreover, I am not sure what you mean by "tactics only working on a small scale". This skill could work perfectly well on a Warrior in any part of PvP, not just RA, TA, AB...Of course there's Condition Removal. But then again, you're a Warrior - use a cover condition. All three weapon types have a skill just for that. Sever Artery, Dismember, Staggering Blow come to mind. These will be charged before Skull Crack anyways. Unless your opposing Monk is expecting the Dazed and has quite fast reflexes, you will be able to cover it and perhaps keep it on for its full duration.
 * More. I contend that it's not fair to compare a Mesmer with a Warrior in terms of shutdown. It is obvious that a Mesmer has more tools for the job and can do it better and more completely. However they have very different roles in PvP. A Warrior is in the frontlines, dealing constant pressure damage and being a general annoyance, or perhaps aiding in Spiking. A Mesmer stays back and (usually - IW exception) doesn't deal constant pressure damage - rather, they focus on taking out one key target at a time, such as the Monk. They might also support the party with Hex and Enchantment removal. But still - very different roles, very different places on the battlefield.
 * Once Skull Crack gets rolling, it can be kept up and used pretty constantly. That's one of its main advantages over other Dazed-causing skills (excepting Concussion Shot but it's godly expensive to spam without Marksman's Wager or such). Also, with the 1/2 second activation time it acts like Protector's Strike by increasing your DPS. Skull Crack will interrupt anything, not just spells - Concussion Shot and Broad Head Arrow can't compare to that. Beguiling Haze interrupts anything, but it has its own problems, such as a very short Dazed duration (6 seconds at 12).
 * It's possible to fully charge Skull Crack in a single hit by combining skills such as For Great Justice, Enraging Charge, and others.
 * Lastly I think I'll end by saying, once again - Skull Crack has no linked attribute. That is a huge, huge advantage over all the other comparison skills. Concussion Shot and Broad Head Arrow are really only viable on a Ranger with Expertise. Beguiling Haze is fairly expensive and has a short duration for non-primary Assassins. All those Mesmer Hexes are hampered because of long cast times, a non-Mesmer primary can't use Fast Casting. Skull Crack alone is unhampered by attributes, being fully usable by any character that chooses to get into melee range. This is not an advantage to overlook. Entropy 08:30, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * The problem lies in the fact that, for a primary Warrior, damage based elites are far better at causing pressure, since applying daze via Skull Crack relies on a) building up adrenaline, b) hitting a foe casting a spell, and c) making sure that it sticks. Warrior caused conditions are very easy to remove, thanks to Mend/Restore/Dismiss Condition and even Mending Touch. And, unlike hex removal, they recharge quickly, so any Mesmer using hexes to emulate Daze can far more easily cover it than a Warrior can. Now, I'm not saying its a crappy elite either, but the fact that the condition caused is so easily removed shows that it could stand to get a 'stance' buff, to something like 7 adrenaline strikes and 6 seconds of daze without the interrupt requirement, although that might be too powerful.


 * In comparison, primary Rangers and Assassins have very powerful daze causing skills. Concussion Shot hits fast and early, and with expertise, means that daze can be kept up quite easily on one foe. Broad Head Arrow can have its limitations very easily removed by using WS or Expertise to give them time to move in to point-blank range, and Beguiling Haze is a shadow step, meaning that not only is the target dazed, they are now about to be hit fast and hard by Assassin combos... 6 seconds is plenty, and even more so with silencing upgrades. Even if they're not using Beguiling Haze, they can still use Golden Jaw Strike or Temple Strike for a daze during the combo.


 * As for being unlinked, Rangers won't use it, neither will Paragons, Assassins need to be opportunistic, so the adrenaline requirement is poor for an attack, and Dervishes are better at causing pressure by manipulating enchantments than by using an elite that has no synergy with the rest of their skills. Anyone else is practically suicide. --220.233.103.77 06:59, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Well, ok. Only issue I have with that is comparison to Concussion Shot - that skill will also only cause Dazed if it hits a spell. It's a bad energy drain to miss with a Concussion Shot, but you don't lose much if you miss with Skull Crack. Entropy 20:03, 14 February 2007 (CST)

This skill can be blocked (also a miss) and then you will need all the way up to 9 adrenaline --InfestedHydralisk 09:46, 28 February 2007 (CST)


 * 9 adrenaline > 25 energy, even under expertise (dunno exact cost) you lose quite a bit of energy. And at least this deals damage regardless of daze or not. Concussion Shot can be blocked and it can also miss... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:47, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


 * -- make it 1/4 sec cast. This way you stand a much better chance of actually interupting with it, and not interupting makes you have to wait until you have adrenaline again. Even then it would suck compared with any other daze skill. -jupsto


 * Not sure I understand, .5 seconds is not a huge difference, and you could just use an IAS anyways to speed it up. At 3/4 it is quite reliable for interrupting as long as you have Mesmer-grade reflexes (which Warriors really should). And I'd like some insight as to why exactly it sucks compared to other dazed skills. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:47, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

My thoughs on this skill, and why it works
Why this > Ranger daze skills: This skill takes about 5-6 3.3 seconds less to charge than Broad Head Arrow without an IAS, and concussion shot has a retarded energy cost. Warriors attack faster and have a chance to interrupt almost ANY spell. Rangers hardly ever interrupt a 1/4 spell. Most rangers end up bringing savage shot just so they hit in time, therefore the only effect they get off of dazed is is increased cast time to facilitate regular interrupts. The ranger doesnt even get the disabling bonus of Distracting shot either, should they chose to bring it. The only way i see BHA to be effective, is when a bunch of fast-attacking warriors are beating down on the target, making casting impossible. I LOVE this skill after testing it =P.-- Thelordofblah 22:39, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yay, a supporter! Proves once again that even "lame" skills like Skull Crack can become your best friend if only you'll test them. Quick Shot is another prime example, or Punishing Shot. ;) Unlike builds you really can't judge a skill until you see it in action...I remember hearing someone tell me once how "bone minions sux becuz they cost 25 energy, loolz". o_O [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:47, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea, before I tested this I was surprised to not see your LAME tag on this. Another great thing about this is if the caster has spells queued up, you interupt the one right after 90% of the time (the other 10% being like 1/4 cast). and LOL at "25 energy sux." quote =P-- Thelordofblah 23:57, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 9 adreanline = you must still be hitting someone, it`s not so easy with so much block skills and blind condition (15 energy on Broadhead can not be stopped so easy, e-denial are rarely used on rangers). The "Rangers hardly ever interrupt a 1/4 spell" is funny, no one can interrupt such spells purposely unless it is cast slower due to hex or daze effect. Ping+seeeing skill+ultra-fast identyfying type of skill enemy using+taping button+time character will hit the enmy/cast spell/shot isn`t enought to be faster than 1/4 sec. It can be done by using skills when enemy isn`t casting such spells yet and having hope that he will do in time the hit will go "in air" (rangers are quite often not waiting for spell for interrupt but just spam Savage Shot, hoping they hit one time). And still Daze on Broad Head is unconditional, making it much easier to place on enemy using 1/4 cast spells. --DragonLord 09:20, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * PvE = lots of blind and block and e-denial, lol :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:59, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "The "Rangers hardly ever interrupt a 1/4 spell" is funny, no one can interrupt such spells purposely unless it is cast slower due to hex or daze effect." My point I was getting at (and apparently failed at)was that Warriors can get off more interrupts in that short 10 seconds because of their faster attack speed without having to use a skill that casts faster (which usually defeats the purpose of being easily interruptable anyways for a ranger), and while doing so can charge the next use of the skill.-- Thelordofblah 22:32, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Precision > Fluke. That's why Savage/Dshot is better than daze or choking gas, or incendiary arrows. A proper caster will know whether his spell will get interrupted while daze. They should know how fast a warrior attacks under IAS. BHA requires no build up, therefore better on splits. Aegis, Guardian, Kiting. Daze is used only for spikes or splits, anyway, so the length doesn't matter. You won't be getting off more than 2 or 3 interrupts with daze, since it will be removed very promptly. The energy required for concussion shot, fyi, charges faster than skull crack, the reason it is ineffective is because the daze is not on demand (ie, spikes). -210.3.39.32 23:47, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "PvE = lots of blind and block and e-denial, lol" - I don`t understand you, you are saying, that block/blind/e-denial is only in PvP or that PvP is out of these skills? Can`t see nothing funny, Daze effect is PvP effect, usefull in PvE only when attacking caster boss.
 * @lord - so we are talking about delivering Daze or interrupting, while enemy is under this effect? Couse I said my thoughts about delivering chance of Daze with SC, and yes, after that War will done it (somehow), he have greater "hit-to-interrupt" potencial, especially with IAS. But first he must make Daze anyway :). --DragonLord 09:39, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * There is next to none Blind, Block, or E-Denial in PvE play. Those were counters you listed and so I'm refuting them. And E-Denial is only in PvP. Daze is useful in all parts of higher-end PvE, not just bosses.
 * It's really easy to cause Daze with Skull Crack - as easy if not easier than with Concussion Shot. There is no flight time to worry about, and no chance of a stray shot because they happened to move.
 * "BHA requires no build up, therefore better on splits. Aegis, Guardian, Kiting. Daze is used only for spikes or splits, anyway, so the length doesn't matter. You won't be getting off more than 2 or 3 interrupts with daze, since it will be removed very promptly...the reason it is ineffective is because the daze is not on demand (ie, spikes)" -Again, we're talking about PvE here, not PvP. So that is irrelevant. Noone spikes in PvE.
 * "The energy required for concussion shot, fyi, charges faster than skull crack" - Bullshit, Concussion Shot is 25 energy, Skull Crack is 9 Adrenaline, which one charges faster (after being used once)? Concussion Shot can't be used by anyone who doesn't have at least 9 or so Expertise, otherwise you run out of energy sickeningly fast. And even at very high expertise like 16 or so, you will be using up 10 or more energy for each Concussion Shot. Ranger max energy is 25, so that's...somewhere around 40% of your energy. Energy regen is 3 pips, without a Zealous bow it takes maybe 3 or 4 seconds to regain that energy. Skull Crack's 9 adrenaline charges much faster than that under IAS, or using "For Great Justice!", or skills like Enraging Charge, Mokele Smash, "To The Limit!", AoE like Cyclone Axe...etc. Any decent Warrior build more than likely has one of those, or more. So really, getting to 9 is nothing. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:53, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Didn't read the entire conv, but: conc shot isn't elite. I'll take bha any day over skull crack. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 20:17, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It's one of the only non-elite Dazing skills yea, but it costs 25 energy and can only be used by Rangers...Prepared Shot if you are really ambitious, but meh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:20, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Show me place when it was said that this is discussion about PvE? I`m still talking bout PvP when Daze is worse condition avaible for casters. In PvE much better idea is taking skill that make more damage (Triple Chop, Dragon Slash) rather than doing Daze, mobs are dropping faster than Daze would do anything (1-2 skills interrupted at maximum). Charging adrenaline in PvP isn`t so easy. Concussion maybe is harder to regenerate energy but stil IT IS NOT AN ELITE (and in addition its ranged attack). And still you do not want to compare it to Broad Head, which can make Daze long enough to recharge skill and launch it again. --DragonLord 09:49, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Go back to the top and read everything in order, it should be quite obvious I'm only talking of PvE >.> And I already compared to Broad Head Arrow, what are you talking about? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:41, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Read from the "To buff or not to buff" to here and found only "Broad Head Arrow is terribly overrated...so is PvP", "PvE = lots of blind and block and e-denial, lol" and about "taking it to heroes"... The only thing you said about BH was that it is easy to miss. Well, your way of thinking is...ridicolous. SC is waste of elite slot unless you have IAS and faster adrenaline gain skills, why can`t you add to BH arrow Favorable Wind or RtW? 15 recharge isn`t big time, especially if condition won`t be romoved, it can be reaplied. Energy is recharging automaticly, while adrenaline must be build in combat. Then in your way of thinking Dazed can be easy covered by other condition coused by warriors, but didnt found, that Migraine on mes (which, as it beed said, emulates Daze effect) can be covered by other hex. Conditions are taking off extremly fast (often even more than one on time), when taking off Hex is much more difficult. Being unlinked isn`t anything positive unless other classes can use it really well (and find it better than the original class). So is Plague touch, but not this (arguemnts again SC on other class were shown by somebody else). And finally why should Warrior take this elite when he have lots more more powerful in PvE (Dragon Slash, Triple Chop, Devastating Hammer etc.)? --DragonLord 08:16, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
 * BHA = overrated. In PvE it's a waste of an elite except for special cases like vs. Rotscale or other single, badass casters. Not too many of those that can't be easily handled with non-elite skills. In PvP it ain't too popular anymore because of the setup it requires and the popularity of condition removal in most PvP builds. PvP is overrated as well, and that comment implies I'm talking about PvE only. PvE = lots of blind and block and e-denial, yes, lol indeed, I dunno where you PvE but there is a lack of blind, block, and e-denial in 95% of it. Again, showing that I am speaking about PvE only. "Taking it to heroes" - once again, a PvE thing. Is it really that hard to see? I've said plenty about BHA anyways. "What Entropy said about Concussion Shot applies to BHA also", as Azaya said. That holds true for most of the discussion...The fact that BHA has a high arc means it is impractical to use at all without either a Shortbow or RtW/Favorable. But, taking two skills (Favorable = 60sec recharge too), one elite, for dazed seems not so great. Concussion Shot > BHA in my opinion. It's not elite, flies fast, and you wouldn't be using it unless you had a good shot anyways. Good Rangers know how to interrupt properly, rather than "just spamming Savage Shot in the hopes of interrupting something", which is stupid. Relying on the elite BHA for Dazed is meh - you're not developing good interrupt reflexes and even though it's unconditional, I don't see how that makes it a huge advantage. If you want to apply Dazed to a target, then it's a target that carries spells. Interrupt those and cause Dazed with Concussion or SC. BHA = okay, so you can pre-ept Daze...so what? In PvE there is no spiking, so having Daze "on-demand" is really not necessary. 15sec recharge is a very long time, especially if you happen to miss - which is likely if you don't take RtW or FW, which again I'll say is using two skillslots when one would suffice. Concussion Shot has a recharge of 5 or something, so even if that misses it's ready again three times faster. Spamming it with Marksman's Wager > better than BHA for Elite. In the 5 seconds or even 15 seconds to recharge Concussion/BHA, you can easily gain the 9 Adrenaline for SC again. And it costs you nothing really - if you've got any energy attacks at all, you'll be using them now, under IAS or FGJ or...I dunno, Enraging Charge, for serious Adrenal gain and pain to enemies at the same time. Ranger can't do nothing to speed up recharge, except for Oath Shot (also elite), or Determined Shot, but forcing that to miss can get difficult...especially if maybe you already had FW up. "Energy is recharging automaticly, while adrenaline must be build in combat." No shit Sherlock, and that means nothing. If you're a Warrior in the midst of battle and you're not building Adrenaline thru combat, you suck. If you're a Ranger who can affort to sit and do /dance while waiting for Energy regen...wohoo? If you're busily spamming other skills in the wait time (as you should) then that is a further tax on energy. Perhaps with a Zealous bow this is not a problem, but really - even with Expertise and 3 pips energy regen, every Concussion or BHA leaves its mark, and if they are your only attack skills you must still watch your energy. Building Adrenaline for SC is no problem whatsoever, and is just as "automatic" as energy regen. "Then in your way of thinking Dazed can be easy covered by other condition coused by warriors, but didnt found, that Migraine on mes (which, as it beed said, emulates Daze effect) can be covered by other hex. Conditions are taking off extremly fast (often even more than one on time), when taking off Hex is much more difficult." Okay, now what are you arguing about - that Mesmer with Migraine is automagically the better choice for interruption and Dazed-like effect? Well in that case you might as well shut up and stop arguing, because by your logic Migraine > all forms of Dazed, including SC, Concussion, BHA, etc, and we should really be arguing about how Mesmers don't get respect in PvE. But hey? That's not the argument, this is about Skull Crack in PvE only. And I dunno how you think it's not easy to get a cover condition for your Dazed. There is Sever Artery, Dismember, and Staggering Blow, for the simplest ones. Good and effective Cover conditions. Once again I reiterate that this is about PvE. Where oh where in PvE do you see "conditions being removed extremely fast"? Answer: nowhere, mobs aren't smart enough to carry Mending Touch or whatever. As to Cover hex for Migraine...well, I never even brought up Hexes, so what is your point. And "taking off Hex is much more difficult"...no not really, ever heard of Convert Hexes, Deny Hexes, Divert Hexes, Purge Signet....etc...? In general Hexes are more durable than Conditions, but by no means are they difficult to counter. Heck, even Holy Veil. "Being unlinked isn`t anything positive unless other classes can use it really well (and find it better than the original class). So is Plague touch, but not this (arguemnts again SC on other class were shown by somebody else). And finally why should Warrior take this elite when he have lots more more powerful in PvE (Dragon Slash, Triple Chop, Devastating Hammer etc.)?" Of course it is something positive, it makes the skill more flexible and thus more viable in a greater variety of builds. It also means you are not restricted into only using it with Weapontype X (excepting melee/ranged differences). Plague Touch is not a fair example because every single melee-range class in the game pwns with it. As to the necessity of it needing to be "better than the original class". Well, for Assassins, like mentioned waay above, your other main Dazed skill is Beguiling Haze. Which, unfortunately, is a poor skill for PvE. There is also Temple Strike, however that is subject to all the limitations of Dagger Attack Chains and so it is even less flexible than BHA or such. So if you want to cause Dazed with a Meleesin. SC is your best choice. Not only is it your only Adrenal skill, Dual Attacks charge it quick, and in combat it serves like Protector's Strike by increasing your DPS. Admittedly that is more of a PvP thing, but hey, whatever works. Dazed-builds are by nature anticaster, and not the most deadly or most damaging, so an argument that some Dagger attack like Moebius is a better elite is rather silly as well as irrelevant...Finally. "And finally why should Warrior take this elite when he have lots more more powerful in PvE (Dragon Slash, Triple Chop, Devastating Hammer etc.)?" It is true, those are better Elites overall. But I ask you this: How is that at all relevant to the merits or demerits of Skull Crack? It makes Dazed. Does Dragon Slash do that? Does Triple Chop do that? No, and no. Therefore they really can't be compared - one is meant to help shutdown, the others for pure unbridled offense. You can argue about the best tactic for PvE being just mass damage like SF and whatnot, but one should always carry some form of caster hate in any given team. You might want to leave that to a Migraine Mesmer, fine. But that does not make Skull Crack any less of an elite, just because some other class can emulate Dazed too. For Devastating Hammer, that deals great damage and KD as well, so it is good versus everyone. I would agree that no Hammer warrior should use Skull Crack, since it relies on fast hits for strong Adrenal charge...so, a Hammer elite pretty much always wins out there. Unless perhaps you made a build using Mokele Smash, Enraging Charge, and "For Great Justice!" all rolled into one. But meh. Only for Hammer Warriors, would I agree that SC is pretty pathetic. For everything else, no. 24.6.147.36 03:30, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

(reset indent) Sigh, that's me, I was writing for too long so it logged me out. (T/C) 03:31, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Very impressive. Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 03:34, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I stopped reading at "rtw/fw", as you not knowing those don't increase arrow speed on bha made me think of your point as moot. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:01, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Rebuttal for hexes; PvE Mobs that are worth dazing don't carry hex removal. Even if they do, they're dazed. Rebuttal for merits of elites; Warriors are, first and foremost, damage machines. Thus, the only condition that a Warrior needs to apply is Deep Wound. Playing outside a professions expertise is generally considered a nono, and the cost of Skull Crack (high adrenaline, timing, no bonus damage) is contrary to their purpose. Rebuttal for 'other daze skills'; Beguiling Haze was updated for PvP, but still has use in PvE as you are assured of dazing the target without question. You then use that time to kill them, rather than killing them and THEN dazing them (which may or may not be a useful purpose for an elite daze skill, being used as a mere interrupt). --220.233.103.77 10:39, 31 March 2007 (CDT)