Talk:"There's Nothing to Fear!"

A good Paragon skill! Interesting. Spen 20:06, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

With minion masters... ownage. Solus  20:34, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Wow, maybe this will get paragons into pugs! --Heelz 20:40, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * No more henching for me! I'm worth something now!

I still wouldn't use a paragon, /p preferred. Solus  21:23, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Agree, any profession can spam this with some form of energy management, so there is no point in grabbing already nerfed beyond repair primory =D Biz 08:23, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, a P/W with this and "Save Yourselves!" would be quite handy. Ruricu 12:42, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * This + They're on Fire + SF Ele = infinite Incoming. Plus 15 energy/10 seconds is pretty hefty for anyone but a paragon. --Heelz 21:54, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Necro, ele, not really "hefty". Solus  22:05, 15 June 2007 (CDT)\

Bugged? I noticed when im with a minion master ill use it on the minions but it will not heal them so makes me think not affecting them all which it should because it ssays allies not party members. Dwaley
 * Confirmed. It only works on party members. I just tried with my Jin and her bear and only we both were affected by the shout, not her pet. --Parabellum 01:18, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

If these updates will be here for ever (Stoneflesh nerf, Armor nerf), Im deleting Elementalist or one PvP char and do Paragon, just for this skill. It's SOO LEET! &mdash; Abedeus   05:33, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Keep your ele and stick it on 'em, as mentioned above... e/p can use nicely --CKaz 01:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but would this stack with Incoming? Or is there a cap on damage reduction?
 * No cap, so it should stack. I'm not sure how they work though, it might be a stack, or they might work separately (one skill reducing damage, then the second reducing whatever's left). Might need a test on that. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 08:34, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

will this skill worth with expertise? r/p constant spam?
 * Read Expertise please. --Kale Ironfist 05:26, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Batman?
-_- who added that? it;s not like scarecrow was the first to say that, and people said this b4 the quote... -Kumdori 16:44, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you kirbman -Kumdori 16:47, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Damn beat me to it Gecko 16:50, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

"It's a Picture of Lenin"
Huh? Who added that??
 * Removed --58.175.233.117 09:16, 17 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I dunno, my first thought was Hellboy.. lacking the horns, sure, but.. --Nunix 23:39, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Signet of Illusion Me/P
Would simply own face with this, regardless of Sunspear level. - Auron 12:38, 17 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Signet of Illusion only works with spells. =/ -- Hopefulaltruist 12:46, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Bah, forgot chants/shouts =/= spells, been hittin' em both with pdrain for too long. - Auron 12:50, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Can't interrupt shouts =P --Heelz 13:11, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ya, but you can interrupt Chants with PDrain now, which is what he was talking about. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 19:03, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, he said hitting both of them. And this skill's a shout. Just poking holes in his defense. =P --Heelz 23:08, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Vocal was Sogolon
That might go decent with this since it's an unlinked skill. With some points in Restoration this can last for 15 secs. It could already be kept up forever but 15 energy kinda hurts =/ P A R A S I T I C 23:37, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Except you can't gain adrenaline while holding ashes, so it would probably cost even more energy without GftE to spam. Besides, you wouldn't want to renew it before it ends. The party heal is pretty good to help out the healers and it triggers/recharges refrains. --Heelz 00:18, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The energy cost is nothing to a Paragon. --Kale Ironfist 00:34, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, other than that, a paragon that just holds ashes and shouts stuff is pretty boring. Defense + spear damage/deep wound is probably better than getting VwS just to make this shout last longer when it can already be recast when it ends. In any case, VwS = bad, bad skill to begin with. --Heelz 01:53, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Rt/P....obviously a P/Rt holding ashes won't be very useful =/ EDIT: Stupid nerf. Kinda useless on non-primaries now.P A R A S I T I C 18:26, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * What nerf? I don't see anything different on this skill then before... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 19:59, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Look at duration of skill. Used to be 10 seconds, no requirements.  Now it's 4 seconds +1 second per 2 ranks in leadership. 76.102.172.202 15:42, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Too good?
Funny how this one skill shows that all the Motivation skills are underpowered. This pvE clealy outclasses each and every one of the Motivation healing skills. I really would have liked a Paragon healer, but alas, it is not meant to be. Motivation=useless, after this skill came out: unplayable.

Mo/P = Ftw. My new favorite class ;) Solus   02:56, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

There, now you have to take a paragon!
Solus, I'm looking in your direction =P. Now it's 4 seconds + 1 second for every 2 ranks in Leadership. I normally run 10, so it's only a 1 second nerf for me! --Heelz 20:28, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Damn, my monks actually have to heal stuff now. WHY DID YOU HAVE TO INCREASE MY DURATION?!?! WHY?! In other news, many Kournan squads patrolling in Vabbi have been found dead. Initial reports show heavy burn scars, with Lyssan Acolytes in the nearby Grand Court of Sebelkeh unable to divine the cause. --Kale Ironfist 21:09, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

omfg, this skill went from a useful äny/p skill to paragon only, so much for balance, the only way you can balance this with the new derv skill is by making it NOT recharge avatars, which somehow anet seemed to NOT see, oh btw i forgot to mention, this is supposed to be a SUNSPEAR related skill, not a LEADERSHIP related skill..... ANET FTW NOOOTTTTTT!!!!!!!! Viscus.....
 * God forbid they give parties a reason to want Paragons...omg how could they
 * OMG OMG NOES THEY BALANCED AN OVERPOWERED SKILL OH NOES OMG WTF???????????????????????????????? ... retard. And seriously, who the fuck cares if a PvE derv can keep his avatar up all the time? Big deal.  [[Image:Riven-sig.png]]   09:07, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Not a big deal? Okay, gimme PvE-Only Decapitate without using up Energy/Adrenaline, Barrage without recharge and Savannah Heat with 5 seconds recharge. What's the big deal?

And if you didn't notice - Avatars were and are pretty strong, even without enchantment to maintain them... &mdash; Abedeus   10:19, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You don't get it, do you? You can already keep them up if you wanted to, it's called waiting for recharge inbetween fights. This just eliminates the need to wait. Like I said, big deal.  [[Image:Riven-sig.png]]   10:27, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Big deal... So suppose you have to wait 2 minutes in between fights, I can already imagine a dervish saying 'No, wait guys! I'm still not ready', then you might just as well go read a book, if you have to wait two minutes every time you slay some tiny beetle. Don't you know the rush of PUGs? Not saying it's always good, but then try going for the master reward in Cantha...
 * Sigh... so anyway, there's nothing overpowered about a skill that achieves something that can already be accomplished without that skill. Your "2 minutes" don't make any sense. Depending on form and investment and excluding Grenth, which nobody runs in PvE anyway, a form generally lasts for ~70-90 seconds, so you'd have to wait 120 seconds minus that duration. Once again, Eternal Aura simply gets rid of this inconvenience, is all. Not overpowered whatsoever. [[Image:Riven-sig.png]]   14:25, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The main reason the Dervish skill didn't need to be balanced was, it's already restricted to Dervish skills. Most you can use it for on a secondary dervish is to recharge some of the Wind Prayers stuff faster, maybe... (most of the Earth Prayers spells already recharge fast.) Four seconds is still useful; it's a powered-down, non-elite "Incoming!" now (albeit with a much better recharge). Still an insane skill, just better on a Primary. Last thing I want as a Paragon is to get a great new skill, then have some E/P's come through and use it better then me. Might as well just make it a Ele skill in that case, or something. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 16:12, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Riven, i'm not saying it's too overwhelming overpowered, I'm just trying to prove that it really SHOULD be on a PvE skillbar of a dervish (If you have things with a long recharge, that is).
 * "here's nothing overpowered about a skill that achieves something that can already be accomplished without that skill". Yeah. Skip all energy management/gain skills then, cause you can always wait for it to regen naturally! great argument :) NightAngel 10:32, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Bit late on this, but... Welcome to PvE. That's how 99% of all PvE'ers roll. Then again, in PvE, you simply DO have some time inbetween mobs, whether you want it or not. So yeah, last time I'm saying this, theres absolutely nothing overpowered about that skill, not even slightly. And ofcourse I agree with the anon above, but that was the point of these skills, to give PvE'ers some skills that are intentionally PvP imba, hence why they are PvE-only skills. [[Image:Riven-sig.png]]   03:31, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

trivia
sounds like a stretch to me. That didn't occur to me when I looked at it and its not like I'm not familiar with the quote. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:15, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Almost every shout has a cultural reference. This one should be no different.  If you can find a quote that's better known, go ahead and add it to the Trivia.  But frankly, I think the current Trivia is correct.  The picture even looks like a guy standing over a podium. --Curse You 16:51, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It was inspired by that quote. Verified from ANet.  Check it out on the other wiki - same skill. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  17:10, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Alright, alright. @@ &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 17:23, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Note about Leadership?
I am not sure how to word this in english, but I think that a warning might be apropriate that with a rank of leadership > 11 it is possible to loose the healing effect if you are not careful with recasting. Does this need a note on the page? Cookieaddictedmonster
 * Are you sure that you can lose the healing effect at 10 seconds? M s4 19:56, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I think if you manage to re-cast this while it's still active, it'll never actually end, thus never triggering the heal. I can make a note of it. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 20:23, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you Jioruji Derako ;) Cookieaddictedmonster 17:53, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * But that applies to all shout effects that activate when it ends. Sirocco 11:15, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * True, but I think this needs the note due to the fact that it didn't do that before (because of the set duration). If nobody thinks the note is necessary, it can be removed. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 16:01, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Like I added on the Article, the optimum spam attribute level for this skill is 12 in leadership. You heal everyone in earshot for a maximum of 52 health every 10 seconds, and also maintain a very helpful damage reduction to the same affected party members. Combine this skill with Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration, and Watch Yourself, and you'll have an excellent support paragon for any PvE team. (As long as you don't use spear mastery, which blows)


 * True, the healing happens more often, but with higher leadership, you'll gain more energy and won't have to spend as much, as fast. I think the "best" attribute level for spamming is debatable, but ultimately comes down to a player's personal preference. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 22:36, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Incorrect description?
Apart from French, all other FIGS languages state "for every two ranks in Leadership". The French description says it's Charisma. I tested on my P, the extra seconds indeed depend on Charisma. Bug? Incorrect description? Already known? Fabes 14:50, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * what is charisma?
 * are you sure charisma (or whatever it is in french) is not the translation of leadership? - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:Y0_ich_halt_logo.jpg|15px]] contribs 15:00, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Wow... sorry my bad... leadership=charisme Fabes 15:42, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * lol XD - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:Y0_ich_halt_logo.jpg|15px]] contribs 09:11, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * ... Sirocco 11:26, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * kekeke --BeeD 03:11, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Stack w/ They're On Fire
Is there a cap for damage reduction skills? Meaning, does this stack w/ They're On Fire? Assuming both are doing 30% for simplicity's sakes and they do stack, does it work as .4*(damage) or .7*.7*(damage)? I can't think of how to test this, as it's a PvE skill (no guild scrimmaging) Zaboomafoo 23:19, 13 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm. Testing would be tedious but not impossible. What you'd need to do is either use a non-Paragon primary to test with 60AL armor, or else get your Paragon down to 60AL by using non-max armor or something...Then, go find an enemy that deals consistent damage with a Spell that does not have Armor Penetration. And make sure it's not a boss, so that your calculations are not way off. Then, check to see how much damage the spell does...record that. Now, use "There's Nothing to Fear" for X% damage reduction...record that. Finally, quickly use some Skill that causes Burning such as...Blazing Spear or perhaps Immolate, and "They're on Fire" for Y% reduction. Check to see how much damage you take...record that.
 * If they stack, you should take X% less damage and then Y% less of that. If they do not stack, you'll just get X% less. To use your numbers, you would either get .7*.7, or you would just get .7 alone. You wouldn't get .4* because that is not mathematically correct. Stacking uses multiplication, not addition. .3+.3 != .3*.3 if you know what I mean. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:41, 13 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I never do, and never will understand you O_o... Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:42, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, so no matter what, assuming they did stack, it would never be 30%+30%. That's really all I wanted to know, thanks. Zaboomafoo 18:17, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

. burning speed or mind burn have best durations... -- frvwfr2  (talk)(contributions) 23:48, 13 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Paragon needs to have more energy than target foe to cause Burning, unless you went E/P. But if you do that, "There's Nothing to Fear" and "They're On Fire" last for like 4 seconds at zero Leadership. Burning Speed is probably viable. Immolate is much more simple to use, though, since you don't need to run up to adjacent range and you can hit them with it while they're casting their spell...You're right that it only lasts for a few seconds, though. Perhaps get a D/E using Mystic Corruption to help out with that? But then you cannot test solo...meh... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:51, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * With a Paragon, you'll run out of energy pretty quickly if you use Immolate (2 pips of regen, and you won't be gaining adrenaline while you're casting, so spamming shouts won't help your energy as much)... Burning Speed's a good idea... Blazing Finale is quite effective, if you use stuff like "GftE!" and Anthem of Flame a lot too. Just keep the Finale on your melee party members (or yourself, if you're close enough). As a note, with all that burning around, Glowing Signet's a nice addition to the skillbar for energy management. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 10:01, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Mark of Rodgort. - Ichigo724 87.66.117.14 10:06, 14 July 2007 (CDT)


 * You know what else is downright funny? Acolyte Sousuke with a Searing Flames build. Just keep him with ya at all times, he'll be more then happy to set people ablaze. And saves you quite few skillslots, which you can fill with all sorts of things. Agressive Refrain (IAS), Focused Anger (adren. booster), and so on. Hell, just stick "Save Yourselves!" in there too and watch all the little -1 damage numbers. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 10:18, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

So has anyone found out if TNtF (let's say at LB level 8) and ToF (let's say at 16 Leadership 16) stack like 31% + 37% = 68% reduction or if it's 31% + (37% of remaining 69% (or about ~15%)) = ~46% reduction (or even reverse the numbers so that ToF's reduction takes place first and TNtF takes place after, equaling ~56%? I think it'd be good to know if anyone has gone through such crazed testing. --  Vallen Frostweaver  22:28, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * From what I remember, all percentage effects stack multiplicatively, multiplying the outcomes afterwards together. So I believe it would be .69*.63 (both converted from percentages) = 43.47% damage afterwards, or 56.53% reduction --Gimmethegepgun 22:37, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * W/ 12 Leadership and rank 8 Sunspear, the multiplicitave total should be a reduction by 51% (that is, you take 49% damage). .71*.69=.4899.  They do indeed stack multiplicatively:    Zaboomafoo 04:38, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

lol
/fistshake. &mdash; Shady Guy   14:00, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * "You say that again n ima pwn ya!" - Y0_ich_halt [[Image:Y0_ich_halt_logo.jpg|15px]] contribs 14:16, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Is ANET Playing Us?
If you think about it, this skill basically reads "Party members gain 10...20 armor for 4...10 seconds." Gee, that sounds a lot like "Watch Yourself!" except that it costs 15 energy instead of 4 adrenalin and isn't actually armor (so it stacks under the update). Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling that ANET keeps giving us skills that LOOK good, but, really, are only useful because they keep nerfing pre-existing skills and mechanics?
 * If by nerfing mechanics you mean making those stupid ele/derv tanks less ridiculous, then sure.
 * But uh... it's a percent reduction of damage. Remember what happened when they had another skill that reduced damage by percent? It was abused to no end because of how insanely powerful it was. This is the same as that other skill, except non-elite and can be more easily maintained. - Auron 09:04, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You make a good point about E/D's, but what about everyone else? Should warriors and paragons suffer because ANET screwed up balancing a new class? +25 is an absurdly low number considering that E/D's can still use single skills that put them well over this limit (Armor of Earth) as wel las alternate means of damage reduction (Stoneflesh Aura) but warriors are stuck with skills that give +20 and +30 armor which can no longer be stacked for effective tanking. The message seems to be that those same E/D's should remain the primary tanks, but tanking is to be made worse in general.
 * You forget that Paragons are not solo-ers. They are team players.  They can do a lot for teams and little for just themselves.  THey are the incarnation of Never fight alone... - the theme from Nightfall. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  15:00, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, did you ever use "Watch Yourself" before it was nerfed with any skill points in Tactics? ANet merely made it so you needed to invest in Tactics in order for it to be beneficial.  Face it, everyone was a P/W that spammed WY with 0 tactics.  It was necessary for PvP reasons.  To unnerf it would just bring back P/W's spamming WY again and probably end up with Paragon's getting the shaft even worse. As a PvE skill, I will admit that this is more or less a replacement for what the prenerf WY used to be...it doesn't require any investment (skill point-wise) except the title track you have to be rank 7 in to continue progressing in the game (for a Paragon at least, which are now the only class who can use this effectively). But hey, don't complain, at least now you can activate it before you aggro.  Zaboomafoo 12:21, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * But it can be stacked with WY or SY even. Of course that's subject to how high a rank you have for the latter.  Stacks well with ToF too so you can have TNtF, ToF, and WY/SY for some pretty amazing defense. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  12:36, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well actually it does require investing in Leadership; but whatever this skill's not leaving my Paragon skill bar anytime soon. Zaboomafoo 14:59, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * By the same account, you could also say that Incoming! "only" adds +40 armor for a meager 3 seconds, but you're forgetting that damage reduction also affects armor-ignoring damage. That's a big one, because armor-ignoring damage is for example attack skill damage and the like, the really nasty stuff. Also, at 60 healing every ten seconds in the optimal case, you're also adding the equivalent of unstrippable +3 health regen that stacks with normal regen. This skill shines, it's easily the best paragon skill today, and breaking it down to its armor equivalent doesn't do it justice. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 12:56, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Word Zulu Inuoe 19:02, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You can say that again. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  21:04, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Another thing to the guy who said this is like extra armor, you are forgetting that this applies to armor ignoring effects and is uneffected by armor penetration, making it much more useful then you make it sound--64.230.111.197 22:07, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, that was my... forgot to log in.--Devils Apprentice 22:08, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

Quote Marks
When this shout is used, the text that appears above the character's head includes the quotation marks, unlike other shouts. Does that count as a bug? (I'm unregistered. Apologies.)
 * Not quite a bug as much as a mis-type, I think. I ran a quick test with a bunch of shouts; normally, there's no quote marks, but out of the few I tested, "There's Nothing To Fear!" and "Never Surrender!" showed up with quote marks. It's either a mistake, or ANet is leaving the quote marks for some reason (perhaps because "There's Nothing to Fear" is part of JDR's "There's Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself", or "Never Surrender" is a quote of just about every famous military leader at one point or another). Most likely a mistake, though. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 00:08, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
 * "When used, the text will appear above the character in quotation marks, just like ALL other shouts." As stated by the posters above me, that statement isn't true. I'm going change the note into "When used, the text will appear above the character in quotation marks, unlike most other shouts." since that's more accurate. 80.141.155.57 07:50, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Someone keeps changing it to say that all shouts do it. I just tested with a bar of 8 different warrior shouts (almost all of the Warrior shouts) and ALL of them came up with no quotes. Stop adding that comment --Gimmethegepgun 16:45, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Nerf
Well, ANET finally nerfed this...20 recharge for this ain't that hot...oh well...back to spear-chucking...but hey, at least now in GW:EN there is actually a spear that looks like a pitch fork...--Manbeast15 23:02, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it's still pretty usable actually. Un-strippable 35% damage reduction most of the time ain't bad (the heal is a nice bonus). It'll probably stay on my skill bar for the time being. BigAstro 23:06, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Meh. No big deal. Wish they would fix incoming. --Lann 23:18, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

NO BIG DEAL?!?!? I work my ass off for over a month to get 17 maxed titles for my paragon AND NOW THEY DO THIS!?!? -cries and jumps off nearest window- :( NightAngel 23:35, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh noes! I'm not completely broken anymore!
 * ...oh wait, I wasn't running this skill on my current skillbar anyway. Still, like, ouch. Might be worth investing into a few more Leadership points to suck some use out of this, otherwise, the damage reduction's still the same; ten out of twenty seconds, with a nice, party-wide heal just before the defenses shut down is still nice. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.> .cнаt^  23:43, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's totally nerfed. When i did all Para FOW runs this was the basis of the damage reduction, well, i guess we're gonna have to start bringing SF eles and "They're On Fire!" =/--Darksyde Never Again 00:45, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

They took forever to release these skills in the first place, then they've been out for months, and suddenly Eye of the North playtesting warrants nerfing sunspear skills? I thought the entire point of PvE-only skills was to provide us with skills that wouldn't be subject to the rampant rebalancing the PvP meta-game brings to all the others. They're supposed to be powerful, to the point of being imbalanced, because if they aren't then we have no reason to use them. Making PvE-only skills that suck is even more pointless then a dubiously useful PvP legal skill, and that's what this is doing. -Gildan Bladeborn 00:52, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself. This isn't even nearly as serious a nerf as Seed of Life, but the concept of nerfing PvE only skills (unless they are completely gamebreaking) makes me wonder what the Anet developers are thinking. BigAstro 01:09, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, i think i'm gonna delete my paragon if it's just going to be subjected to constant nerfs.
 * Wow. When they added this skill, I thought my beloved paragon finally got a nice skill that wouldn't get nerfed into uselessness, since it was PvE-only.  I was so happy, then, because it seemed like all the time I spent on my paragon (it became my main character when I made it - I loved the group-oriented approach) was paying off.  Now, I just find myself wondering why I always seem to prefer the classes that get kicked around.  20 second recharge? If it really needed a nerf so badly, why not make it 15s, so it would still be worth the energy cost?  What's next, making "Go for the Eyes!" an elite?  I really hope this gets modified for the better soon. -- Marand 06:55, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Addition: I guess all those mobs in Elona petitioned Anet after I hench-vanqed them with TNTF + ebon dust Morgahn + Broad Head Arrow Margrid.  -- Marand 07:07, 31 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I very much disagree. "There's Nothing to Fear!" was imbalanced, not to the point of being imbalanced.  The old version was absolute insanity.  This continues to match rather favorably to a pre-nerf Incoming!, and that was very broken despite being worthy an elite slot, no? Sun Fired Blank 10:19, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * There is one very important difference in the two skills: One can be used in PVP, the other cannot.  It was a nice support skill for people that, like me, tend to use monk heroes, because it helped cover up some of the issues the monk AI has.  It had no affect on the PVP game and this one skill didn't make or break PVE groups.  Even with Legendary Spearmarshal, you needed a decently built group to take on Hard Mode.  You couldn't blast through hard mode with one monk hero in an 8-man party or anything of the sort.  The biggest difference TNTF made for me, vanquishing? Less down time.  TNTF let me move from one encounter to the next with less time spent waiting on wasteful monks to recover energy.  Instead of standing around doing nothing, I actually got to play the game at a pace I enjoyed. Now? I'm playing something else and waiting to see what happens here before I grab Eye of the North. -- Marand 23:50, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Very sad day for Paragons. Why don't they start nerfing the classes that everyone plays rather than the fringe classes like ours?  15 seconds would have been okay, but 20 seconds is brutal.  A few seconds can make all the difference in the world. They're not happy about this on the official GuildWiki either. Henri Blanche 13:18, 31 August 2007 EDT
 * As a Spear/Leadership/Command Paragon, this was my only damage reduction skill(aside from Morgahnator) and now, i've got nothing. It's useless, now. Even at Legendary spearmarshal it's not all that great. I'm starting to think Anet has connections with Satan...think about it...reverse "net", change the E to an A and add an S. You get Satan. Paragons are starting to seem more and more useless as support, which is funny 'cause that's what they were made for.--Darksyde Never Again 13:39, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

Wtf,you think its useless cause you cant spam it like hell anymore,your not supposed to spam just 1 skill,and even with the recharge this still has a much longer duration than incoming,and the heal is a bonus,so its not maintanable constantly anymore,that doesn't make it a bad skill,it just means you can't spam it.


 * After perfecting a VwS build that effectively protted better than any monk could hope to, it gets fucked thanks the the infamous Sundering Nerfbat of Paragon Slaying... Thanks much. Anyway, I think it's about time to make a Dervish... Heheh.. I'll have to take off the Anti-Dervish userbox from my page. Only hope for this skill is alternating it with incoming. I'll do some testing and see how the chaining works out. <font color="orange" face="times new roman" size="3">cedave  (contributions)  18:43, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

"Wtf,you think its useless cause you cant spam it like hell anymore..." It's not worthless, it's just that there are so few Paragon skills that are still worth using without a full Paragon team that playing a Paragon seems...lame now. My three main chars were my Ranger, Paragon, and Dervish, respectively. But now, i have absolutely no motivation to play my Paragon.--Darksyde Never Again 11:26, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * "Save Yourselves!" –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 08:16, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * "But now, i have absolutely no motivation to play my Paragon." ditto... it's like prot monks got their jobs threatened in pve and anet said "well can't have that. what will those poor monks do?" *NERF*.

Suggestions for change.
(I already put this on the official wiki, but it seemed like a good idea to post it here, too.)

It seems unlikely, considering how nasty the change to TNTF was, that Anet is going to simply revert it to its old form. They see something really dangerous in this PVE-only skill, possibly justified, possibly not. Regardless, rather than whine about it, maybe if people post suggestions for possible changes, a reasonable middle ground can be found and applied.

Here's my thought on a good compromise:

I think the 20 sec recharge would be fine if the skill were modified to add a second to the duration per rank of Leadership, rather than one per two ranks. It would still hinder */P builds (presumably the reason for this change), would be a slight nerf to people with 12 Leadership (like me) without being as crippling, and could still be maintained fully with 16 Leadership. -- Marand 15:27, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * wouldn't this, in a way, make the skill a bit better than before the nerf, as you would get more energy back from the higher leadership and have it last twice as long while still being able to maintain it? Sure you would lose 75hp but as a mid-liner, with a fairly high armor rating 80+10, i think the pros would more than outweigh the cons.
 * Possibly, though I doubt most people would want 16 leadership just for the one skill. If it becomes an issue, raising the energy cost a bit should solve the problem.  -- Marand 10:26, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Consider the fact that paragons never have energy trouble in pve...the only change from previous would be a couple seconds for most ppl and healing half as often. I still think the skill is useful myself.  It may not be great (comparable to wy isn't it?) but with the whole armor stacking issue, the straight up damage reduction paired with Save Yourselves is nice. 76.102.172.202 16:03, 8 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Why not just make it 100% failure with Leadership 4 or less? and revert it back to how it was.... Dean Harper 20:17, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Just make it 100% failure rate with Leadership 1 or less, since it is a Paragon only skill, with it being reverted back of course. <font color="red"face="times new roman" size="2">GrimacingPain