GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills

Suggestion: linking elite skills to builds
moved from Community Portal

While trying to figure out ways to better display and make accessible our builds collection, I've come up with the following suggestion: I think we should make an addition to the default skill template for elite skills (possibly even for all skills), called "Builds focusing on this skill" or similar, and under the headline, link in the builds in the that make use of the skill in question. This would showcase and make the good builds more easily accessible, make it easy to see if your idea for a build has already been done, and just plain be a practical reference for finding a build you know is here (but don't know the exact name). Thoughts? --Bishop (rap|con) 21:55, 10 May 2006 (CDT)


 * The way current template mechanics are, the section you want will appear above progression and acquisition. I do not believe it is the proper place for it.  It should be manually added towards the bottom of the article, if the linkign is to be done. -PanSola 23:13, 10 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Agreed. I wasn't suggesting, or even thinking of, anything automagic. --Bishop (rap|con) 00:11, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * To showcase, rather than explain, what I mean, I have taken the liberty of adding my idea to the IW article, as an example. --Bishop (rap|con) 00:34, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

Do not use include/templates for Skill Quick References

 * ''moved from User talk:PanSola

What are you trying to achieve, and wouldn't it be better to experiment on non-live pages? Hank 22:19, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I thought I was done with experimenting. Then as I was pushing it live, I discovered I was wrong.  Now Ithink I'm done with experimenting again, so I'm pushing it live again.  -PanSola 22:21, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Gah! Can you not explain what you're trying to do? Is this related to that subst issue above? If so there is a simple solution. . Hank 22:57, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm keeping things dynamic, but using template instead. -PanSola 22:59, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * It is a terrible idea. Can I talk you out of it? You will kill the server with a page such as Mesmer Skills Quick Reference. Not to mention template pollution and confusion for editors. Please use subst. Hank 23:03, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

Like you said, template stuff are cached, so I don't see why it'll kill the server. SKill articles get edited often, but not the skill details that are being put into the templates. I think subst still defeats the entire motivation behind GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills/Archive 4. Namely, we need to remember to update multiple articles when a single skill changes. I see little benefit in re-subst compared to manually updating Mesmer Skills quick reference, Interrupt Spells Quick Reference, Mantra Quick Refernce, Signet Quick Refernce, Degen Skills Quick REference, or a sixth article whenever Anet changes skills between ladder seasons. -PanSola 23:08, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I never said "template stuff are cached". That would be wrong in any case. I have considerable experience with the MediaWiki templating engine, so please let me examine the proposal again. There is no principal difference in recaching if the skill quick reference article includes or  . The costs are identical. Every time a page that has about a 150 templates or so is rendered, it will still query every single template at the database to see if it needs to rerender.   So you do not avoid any cost in separating a fixed portion of a skill article from a variable portion. MediaWiki templates are not robust enough for a page to have more than a couple dozen of them without consuming a terrible amount of memory. This is by design.. Hank 23:19, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
 * If the article Rush has been edited, but all the edits happen in the noinclude section, then is the render engine robust enough to not re-render it (when loading a page containing ?  It still makes a difference between 150 queries and not having to re-render, or 150 queries and HAVE to re-render because an artiticle got stubbed, or someone while editing a non-included part of the article, suddenly decide to adjust the whitespace in the included section to make the raw text in the edit box easier to read. -PanSola 23:26, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * No, it will force a recache of all pages that include a page whenever the text of the included page is changed. However, this is not the issue. Stripping noinclude sections takes nanoseconds. What is the bigger issue is that a page that includes 150 templates will cause O(150) database queries every time, even if the templates themselves have never been touched since the last render. The strain on the database is far greater than the computation required to rerender the page. Hank 23:27, 11 May 2006 (CDT)


 * Darn, and this is including features since MediaWiki 1.6, not just 1.5 and prior right? I would've thought if MediaWiki figured out how update link tables to deal with categories used inside templates, then this wouldn't be a problem. -PanSola 23:38, 11 May 2006 (CDT)