Talk:Wastrel's Collapse

I could see using this skill with Gale as an E/A thus making the window for using a skill only one second. Cast WC, Cast Gale. 1 second casting + 3 second KD = 1 second standing. Assuming WC didn't get removed before you get off gale. Seems a good way to shutdown a monk during a spike though.

I was recently messing around with Shameful Waste+Diversion+Wastrel's Worry in FA. It's a great combo. --Ufelder 07:49, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Its an expensive combo. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 08:43, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Not expensive enough to warrant not using it. --Ufelder 11:32, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
 * *shrug* I would just cast on the diversion with some crazppy skill honestly. Of course, we're talking RA so it might be useful>.< Sorry i thought you said RA not FA(Not a fifty five 19:47, 26 September 2006 (CDT))

Skill is aptly named. 68.253.186.92 16:07, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Can't Hammer warriors find a use for this spell? Assassinman 22:33, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

hmm, does this mean successfully cast a spell, or just cast one period?
 * Any skill, not spell. At is says uses, so I would assume it doesnt have to be succesful.(forgot to sign it>_>)--Dice 19:34, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * An skill with cast time has to be completed successfully. Still, as someone mentioned, this skill is very aptly named.

I'm curious if it stacks with Stonefist Gauntlets...heh.

So does it remove itself/knock down when they begin to use the skill, thus causing it to fail, or when they finish using a skill?--Ender A 14:37, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I am 100% sure the skill has to complete. --Ufelder 04:12, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * But I assume "ends prematurely" means that it does not KD, as per the other Wastrels. --Heurist 21:00, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Echo for near-endless KD for 20 seconds? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 23:39, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Now called Wastrel's Collapse. --Buzzer 06:11, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

This skill is now known as Wastrel's Collapse in the final NF release. Otherwise it is the same.

Found a boss with this in Vehtendi valley just SE of the connection to the Forum highlands. --Fyren 19:46, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Has anyone considered the usefulness of this skill against things with natural resistance? Bosses, Guild Lords, etc. -Jeyemji 18:00, 10 August 2007 (PDT)

I think this skill was meant to be used against kiting. Even quick skills will stop someone for a seconde, making it possible to reach them. Though stances would kill it and most snares work better, at least there is a possible use. A.Saturnus 07:43, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

It's such a shame it is after 5 seconds rather than 3 like Wastrel's Worry. Those 2 seconds make all the difference, just like Glimmer of Light was such a better skill with 1 second recharge instead of 2. This still has its uses (the old hurts you if you do hurts you if you don't strategy), but it could have been so much better in my opinion. --Carth 03:45, 8 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm think Diversion -> this? &mdash; Skuld 05:00, 18 November 2006 (CST)

I am unable to locate this boss. I have scoured the zone repeatedly. This map shows my exploration and the boss's approximate location. Can anyone else find it? Is it a bug? Am I mistaken? --Kyr One &#91;CBE] 17:34, 12 November 2006 (CST)
 * A little late, but did you see the note on Jarimiya the Unmerciful? I know I captured this from the boss at some point, not that it helps you much.  --Fyren 05:20, 18 November 2006 (CST)
 * After corresponding with Anet, it turned out this was a bug in my installation. After uninstalling and re-installing from scratch, this boss appeared. --Kyr One &#91;CBE] 18:17, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Wastrel needs to be medicated, apperantly. Seva

Could be used just before blackout to ensure target doesn't use skills. Glenn 10:21, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Use it on guildlord or bosses, duh. --Silk Weaker 03:44, 25 January 2007 (CST)

A friend duelled me with the most annoying build I's ever seen. It was a Me/A, and went something like this:

It made me rage quit... Van Wark 02:12, 12 February 2007 (CST)

That build looks like fun....The Hobo 16:34, 2 March 2007 (CST)

Worst Skill Ever?
This gets my vote for the most useless skill in the game. Causes no damage, Can't be re-applied constantly like Wastrel's Worry, and is a five second duration. You might as well ask them nicely to just stand there for five seconds. The only way it would be good was if it was a three second knockdown with a five second recharge and three second duration. Duncan Dragoon 06:49, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think so actually. bals pendulum is pretty crappy but at least it does something on occasion Not a fifty five 07:03, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Needs a lame tag. -Isi
 * /agree
 * /agree too :p --Crusheer 05:36, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

This Skill CAN be reapplied constantly, you just need to play it with deadly paradox. 85.168.232.45 06:50, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Except it still would take 5 seconds for a knockdown.

Here's how I wish the skill would work:

Wastrel's Collapse - Critical Strikes

5e/.5c/12r

Elite Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a Lead Attack. If target foe is not using a skill, this attack strikes for +15-60 (at 15 CS) damage and target foe is knocked down.

I always suggest this on forums when topics pop up about how much WC sucks total ass. --Heelz 08:03, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd like an elite offhand at all. :P 09:49, 13 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Elite Lead Attack. This attack deals +5-30 Dmg (CS), and if target foe is not using a skill, that foe is knocked down. (5 second recharge)


 * Got an idea for this skill.Wastrel's collapse-->one of the offhands that uses hex-->some dual attack--> guy falls down--> falling spider--> another good dual sighnet of toxic shock


 * Should buff this with like if target uses a skil before hex completes this removes all enchants, stances and disable skills for 5 seconds or is hex ends prematurely all of tht foes skills are disabled for 10sec or 5 sec ( XD lol the remove everything buff would be way overpowered i think but it gives an idea of a collapse get kd or collapse internally but it would b an awesome idea for a crazy skill weekend thingy XD ) ImpulseDestiny 05:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * A better one would be. "Shadow Step to Target Foe, After 5 Seconds they are knocked down. This Hex Ends Prematurely if target Foe uses a skill." Graceful 04:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Then it would only be used for a shadow step, and nobody would care about the knockdown :P --Shadowcrest  04:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * But it would be better than this. Maybe a bit OP.Graceful 04:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was going to say anything up to Seeping Wound is better than this, but then I caught myself. Seeping wound is better than this. --Shadowcrest 04:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * By a lot. I mean, come on, it's degen counters MENDING! --Gimmethegepgun 04:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * At least seeping wound does something. This at best gives the other team something to abuse Dwayna's Kiss with. --Shadowcrest 04:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was agreeing with you. AND being ironic/funny --Gimmethegepgun 04:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How ironic, most miss the sarcasm in comments and I find sarcasm in the wrong part of notes. --Shadowcrest 20:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Worst Skill Ever?
this skill is horrible! Definatley the worst elite in the game maybe even the worst skill.--71.178.108.144 23:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Ever look at Keystone Signet? Thoughtful [[Image:Thoughtful Sig.png|19px]] 19:45, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea who would use this over Lightning Surge. -24.16.45.133 02:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Blackout note?
Alright... umm I think the note saying this works well with blackout is kinda stupid. I mean, you knock somebody down to prevent them from using skills (and as a snare). If you use blackout on somebody, they are already NOT using skills. Its not like knocking down an opponent who is suffering from blackout DOES anything. Blackout defeats the purpose of a knockdown (except for the snare, but there are easier ways to do that). I suggest we remove the note. -Tk Hawkins Jan 21 2008


 * The point of Blackout, my misguided and poorly self-informed friend, is that you use it so that the target of Wastrel's Collapse cannot use any skills to remove the hex (5 seconds is an excellent window of opportunity to use a skill). The note is perfectly legitimate: Wastrel's Collapse --> Blackout --> no fear of foe removing hex --> knockdown (basic idea anyhow). I suggest we keep the note. King Neoterikos 03:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Hawkins on this; there's no point to knocking down an opponent that can't use any skills. I'd rather run Echo Blackout than Blackout and Collapse. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a point to knockdown..it's to use the conditional off-hand attacks "Falling X". Obviously this skill sucks horribly, just wanted to point out the usefulness of knockdown to sins. 71.228.12.3 03:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Knockdowns aren't just used for preventing skill usage (KD doesn't stop stances, shouts, and certain skills from activating), they are also used to prevent kiting... I don't even participate in PvP that and still understand the importance of KD-ing a kiter. Just because you use Blackout does not mean they will stand there for you and let you finish them. They are obviously going to run. The knockdown prevents this from happening. And with the 5 second delay, their skills will nearly be ready anyway. King Neoterikos 07:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And how exactly will you "finish them" when your skills are disabled by Blackout? For that matter, you WON'T have enough time PERIOD to pull off a "falling" move. After the aftercast of Wastrel's (3⁄4 second) and the casting time of Blackout (1 second) and then 5 seconds to have your skills recharge, that ends up being 63⁄4 seconds, leaving you just 1⁄4 (5 seconds for hex to trigger + 2 seconds of knockdown - 63⁄4) second to pull off a "falling" move. And it takes longer than that for attacks to hit. Remove that pitiful note --23:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Orrigional name, shameful waste
Oh jeez, Anet was so right the first time.--‎ Spam  King  23:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They probably named it this because all OTHER wastrel skills are great and they want people to think this is great, maybe to laugh at them, who knows?--[[image:Spam_King_Sig.gif|19px]]‎ Spam  King  23:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I think this was meant to function differently...
At the moment, this skill IS virtually useless, because its effect is minimal and it is easily ended. However, if you reversed it, it would be brilliant - if after 5 secs they were knocked down, and using a skill KNOCKED THEM DOWN EARLY. They would have a choice between not using skills for 5 seconds, or using one, having it fail, and being knocked down. Elite worthy. Maybe ANet got confused? Captain Yimuru 22:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this, then it gives the skill a certain diversion-like feel, plus an assured knockdown skill would work well with an assassin. I'd actually pack this skill if it did do this. --122.107.211.146 13:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)Hondy--122.107.211.146 13:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

/agree ImpulseDestiny 19:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It could be seen as slightly overpowered at that point though. If the skill were changed to "If target foe uses a skill within the next 5 seconds, that foe is knocked down.", I think that would be better.  Either go 5 seconds cold turkey, or cast a skill, and suffer the knockdown.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   I~sk8   (T/C) 19:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It would need a much larger recharge. 5/8 seconds? Nothx. --Shadowcrest  19:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The skill doesn't fit well with Assassins, tbh. Either make it on par with Wastrel's Worry with a 3 second duration, and shorter recharge (1 second might be a little overpowered, though) or use something like the Guilt/Shame type functionality that Captain Yimuru suggested. -Mike 20:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

August 7th, they change a shedload of underused, underpowered elites...
...and yet no change to this. Why? Is there a secret build I'm unaware of in which this is a good skill? Captain Yimuru 14:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought that was funny when I noticed this wasn't buffed. At least they gave Unyielding Aura a buff (for PvE). XD ــѕт.  мıкε  15:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They even hit Extend Conditions. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's just because Izzy doesn't like assassins. I mean they gave us a great pure IAS in WotA, and then nerf it back to not worth slotting over Critical Agility a day later... --Vengeful
 * It wasn't worth taking over Critical Agility in PvE, anyway, tbh. ــѕт.  мıкε  16:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh i guess you're right. The elite slot is much better suited for MS and SA.
 * What will they do with this skill anyway? Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 05:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

BUFF
OH WOW! King Neoterikos 02:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * . They copied me. XP ــѕт.  мıкε  02:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * One of my alliance members just raged about it not having aftercast delay... This could be fun for a while, unless ANet intended it that way. King Neoterikos 02:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They'll probably add aftercast soon, tbh. This is pretty awesome for anti-kiting and starting your chain, though. Enjoy it while it lasts. =P ــѕт.  мıкε  02:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * recharge is too long tbh. (68.63.217.123 08:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC))
 * Lol... it's the one of the fastest recharging shadow steps there is... King Neoterikos 09:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It needs a chance to fail at less than 4 Critical Strikes or something of the sort, because it's going to be abused so heavily by ele and rit spikers. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "all non-dagger attack skills disabled" that means no more stupid spikes from other classes and abusing shadowsteps to the point where assassins get an aftercast on the skill that makes the class what it is. please anet put this on all shadowsteps and remove aftercast--92.6.217.87 11:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It may be important to note that it's all non-dagger attack skills (such as sword attack skills) disabled as opposed to all non dagger-attack skills. Spells are not disabled, so ele and rit abuse is still on with this skill. 158.104.163.255 13:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you actually test that or are you just speculating? Sounds like speculation to me Viruzzz 14:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the IP is right, just by the way it's worded, but it is somewhat ambiguous. When trying it in RA, I believe that I could use Tiger Stance after WC, so it should be that scythe attacks/sword attacks etc. only are disabled. - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  16:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. It says non-dagger attack skills, meaning attack skills that aren't dagger attacks. It's probably to prevent abuse from scythe sins, although I don't know why they'd take this over something more useful like WS. 97.97.199.110 22:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I just checked, and it just disabled the attack skills, not the enchantments, signets, or plain skills on my bar. Probably to stop ridiculous adrenaline spikes --Gimmethegepgun 22:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Critscythes with KD shadowsteps *shudders* - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  22:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And Warriors with two Bull's Strikes. XD ــѕт.  мıкε  23:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

12345678 GG 67.234.6.254 23:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This + Aftershock? May even be worth a spike...up to 195 earth damage (12+1+3+2) in approximately 1 second - would only need 4 spikers this way. Too bad SB will counter this. Maybe combine with other shadowsteps/elites to spike roughly every 10 seconds? Either way, have to say this skill hasn't seen much play yet (if any) Shai Meliamne 01:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It disables non attack skills... it wouldn't work. Big Bow
 * Incorrect, read the article. King Neoterikos 03:23, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it would work quite well. That's why it's going to be abused and needs to be Critical Strikes 4+ or 50% fail. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I like this for AB (yes I know AB sucks blah blah blah).

The second hit of HoTo will knock down again, at exactly the right time to interrupt 1/4th cast skills. Which is awesome. 14:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Bugfix
I noticed that before, good that they acknowledged it as a bug that you didn't knock down someone in the aftercast, turned me away from this elite, because the only reliable way to use it on a monk or something is in the aftercast delay. -- Taki Fujiko  10:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Mesmer Shutdown ?
Big Bow 14:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It also disables all non-dagger attack skills for 10 seconds, so it's more like shutting yourself down.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Non-attack skills are unaffected. It only disables Attack skills that are Not dagger attack skills. Kurtan 15:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, didn't see it. Should be in a bug tag, or at least anomaly.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * *points at notes* - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  16:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Collapse vs. Collapse -> Random KD
I've always wondered what happened if two players would activate Wastrel's Collapse against each other at the same time. Today I tested this with a guildmate (placing each other out of range, then activating the skill to run towards each other and sync-cast). The result was not very clear. 8 times, she was KD'ed; 2 times I was. Is there any known mechanics of how the game / the server calculates who is knocked? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.137.91.10 (contribs).
 * LOL that's awesome. Paper, rock, scissors?  :P - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420  20:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * probably the person who initiated the skill first.--Relyk 10:31, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * my bet is that it's a result of tiny fractions of lag. whoever happens to start casting first (according to the server) finishes first (according to the server).--[[Image:Mr Squints.jpg]](Page/Talk) 12:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @Relyk "same time"
 * @I.P. - If the server gets both requests at the same time, neither person will be knocked down (READ: Two people using skills) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:45, February 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's practically impossible to activate at exactly the same time, due to desynch/lagg. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:38, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. (Except for one thing. You mean "on purpose". Technically lag can also help make it happen. Especially if it's server-wide lag and you both lag, then you both stop lagging at the same time)
 * But that was what the question was asking, so imo, it's what we should answer. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:57, February 16, 2010 (UTC)