Talk:Requirement

Rename?
I think this should be renamed as either Requirement or Weapon requirement, then leave "Req" as a redirect (then add the redirect to the abbreviations category). I also noticed that some of the information in the article contradicts information at Weapon. Was there a program change, or is one (or both) of the articles mistaken? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:51, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed on the rename/redirect. And where does the testing info even come from? The article cites several testers, confirmed results... but from where? — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 16:58, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * GWG iirc. Also, "Requirement" would be the best name for this. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 17:09, 12 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Depending on what the name of this article changes to, a disambiguation may be good idea to separate this article from ... Required Hero: Koss (in-game usage) or even as opposed to Requirement (as in Hunted! requires Consulate Docks (mission)) (GuildWiki usage)
 * Listed is a scheme for damage reduction on melee weapons, bows and spears... I presume this scheme would be the same for wands and staves?
 * Does armor on a shield operate similarly to offhands in a flat decreased armor? Or does it operate more similarly to weapons with a graduated decline in armor value?
 * As I recall hearing a long time ago, falling short of a requirement will only affect the linked statistic. For any sort of weapon, this would mean damage.  For offhands, this would mean energy.  For shields, it would mean armor.
 * From a quick test with a req 9 Collector's staff: there was no variation in energy despite changing the attribute related to the requirement.
 * By extension from the staves, the mitigation of Gain would not come into play with Inscriptions (or inherent bonuses that would be Inscriptions if it was an Elonian weapon) such as E+5 (while Enchanted)?
 * Since I recall no wands with attribute-linked energy, I presume the table applies only to offhands? The table then would not apply to a Holy Rod.


 * From a quick test, it seems that there is no differentiation between just short (r8 with a r9 offhand) and very short (r4 with a r9 offhand)3. Both resulted in a Gain of E+3. A few quick tests followed this trend and showed some other interesting results.


 * {| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"

! Gain || Req || Attrib >= Req || Attrib < Req ! E+10 || r10 || E+10 || E+6 || ! E+7 || r5 || E+7 || E+3 || ! E+7 || r2 || E+7 || E+6 || ! E+6 || r5 || E+61 || E+31 || ! E+12 || r13 || n/a || E+6 || 2 ! E+12 || r12 || E+12 || E+6 || ! E+12 || r11 || E+12 || E+6 || ! E+12 || r10 || E+12 || E+6 || ! E+12 || r9 || E+12 || E+3 || 3 ! E+12 || r9 || n/a || E+6 || 2, 4 ! E+12 || r8 || E+12 || E+6
 * }
 * 1This particular offhand had E+5 (while Health is above 50%). Whether the linked attribute was above or below the requirement, the bonus energy was present.  The listed Gain is the difference.
 * 2In contrast to the rest of the list, these offhands are for a profession differing from the primary and secondary of character used for testing. Thus, the attribute is presumably counts as rank 0, since it is unavailable.
 * 3This item is a green and was used to test the attrib 8 vs attrib 4 with a req 9 offhand.
 * 4This item is an Elonian gold offhand. It also has a Focus Core of Endurance, H+30, which was in effect.  See note 2

Adeira Tasharo 01:35, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

Due to a lack of further discussion, I have made some preliminary edits. Pending more in-depth research, I will eventually update the table for Offhand Energy. I do not presently feel qualified to test the weapons, so I leave that someone else.

Adeira Tasharo 14:48, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

The informations about not meeting the requirement of weapons in this article seem obsolete.

Look at this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation Look there for "newbie weapon".

I've tested it with swords. It seems to be true for collectors weapons, crafted weapons, blue, violett and golden dropped weapons. Even if only one point is missed, it is true. ;( (Please apologize my english) I had suspicions about the validity of this point: "For melee weapons, bows and spears (see the different skill types), the min. and max. damage is reduced by 1 for every point the requirement is not met. Example: A Warrior wielding a max dmg Axe (6-28) with req. 9 in Axe Mastery will only do 4-26 damage when having his Axe Mastery set to 7."

I performed a test using the Armour 60 targets on Isle of the Nameless. The weapon I used was a "Purple" scythe. The damage was listed as Slashing 9-41 (Requires 9 Scythe Mastery). It was not sundering. There was no damage bonus from customization. There was no damage bonus from an inscription (not a 15^50 or anything of that nature). I chose this scythe for its "normalcy." I started striking the target with 0 in scythe mastery, and recorded the maximum damage and the minimum damage. After numerous blows, I would increase the attribute by 1 and begin striking anew.

Here are the results:
 * {| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"

! Attribute || 0 || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 ||  14 || 15 || ! Min Dmg || 1 || 1 || 1 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 7 || 8 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 10 || 10 || ! Max Dmg || 6 || 7 || 8 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 45 || 49 || 53 || 58 || 60 || 62 || 64

If the wiki statement were true, at attribute 7, the damage range should have been 7-39. As you can see from the results, having the attribute lower than the weapon requirement by only 1 reduces the damage range by much more than 1 at both the maximum and minimum values.
 * }

(It might be noteworthy to mention that I believe all the top damage results for each attribute level were the results of a “critical hit.” I believe this to be the case because of the unique sound effect that accompanied the top value hits.)  - Countess Corpula July 31, 2007

I altered the article to reflect the information gathered above. - Countess Corpula August 13, 2007

Do not be ignorant to the fact that scythe mastery, the attribute itself increases the damage you do with scythes. This information makes the table you provided somewhat questionable.... and if anything this table should be added to the scythe page.... not req page..... tests involving energy from foci, or armor from shields should be on here but the shields appear to be absent.

Trivia
What is the origin of the myth that low req items are "better"? I once heard a rumor (which I now, sadly, spread) that a long time ago, in a land far far away (possibly beta), you did more damage with a req9 weapon than with a req11 weapon, even with weapon mastery at 13+. --Carmine 21:07, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

I too would like to know how a lower requirement weapon is better than a higher one even if you've got 12 points into the weapon's attribute. Rickyzhou 20:15, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The two lines of thought that seem to apply to low req items:
 * Possible benefit from exceeding the req. - I seem to recall hearing something of the sort at some point, but I recall nothing conclusive. Some games, such as Diablo II, do reward exceeding the requirement.  AFAIK, GW is not one of them.
 * More flexibility in attribute distribution. (Also, Weakness) - You can max two attributes, however that will leave you with only a small handful for a third attribute. If your weapon or offhand requires 10, 11, or even 12 (13??), you have to keep that attribute fairly high, allowing less for other classes.  A req 7 weapon potentially leaves more attribute points for the others.  Granted, if you want to be at rank 12 (for benefit to skills) and have a req 7 weapon, this is irrelevant.  Weakness adds another pull on your skills.  If you have a req 9 weapon/offhand and have 9 ranks in that attribute, suffering from Weakness will cause you to miss the req and suffer a penalty on the equipped item. Adeira Tasharo 20:40, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

So in other words, it's pointless. Because less than 12, you wouldn't be doing 100% of the damage anyway. At the most, weakness can only drop attribute by 1, so it's not too difficult to keep yourself safe. Around 12/13 requirement it may be different. As for Diablo 2, the requirements don't vary. You can't use it if you're below the requirement, and exceeding it doesn't benefit you. It's the innate benefit from strength/dexterity that improves the damage. If you socket a weapon with -20% requirements, you won't get any more of a benefit with the requirement being lower. Well, thanks for the info. Rickyzhou 23:05, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Grrr, stupid fads, I'm only going to by high req items now! Cheaper and basically no difference >.>

Shields?
What is the penalty for not meeting the requirement on shields? I'm assuming it lowers the armor the shield gives, does anyone know how low this actually is? --Shadowcrest 04:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Its half of its max armor(if its armor is 16 than u will get 8ar)

Requirement testing with dmg
Did as the guy above, striking the Suit of 60 Armor dummies. Done with a req 9 sword, no mods. Did around 50 hits with each lvl of req to be sure. Should this be put on the article? --Elderon 23:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * {| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"

! Attribute || 0 || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 ||  14 || 15 || 16 || ! Min Dmg || 2 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 4 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 16 || 16 || 16 || 17 || 17 || ! Max Dmg || 2 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 5 || 6 || 6 || 7 || 24 || 26 || 29 || 31 || 32 || 33 || 35 || 36 || After the first test I did it all over again with a req11 sword.. same dummy. no mods.
 * }
 * {| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"

! Attribute || 0 || 1 || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 ||  14 || 15 || 16 || ! Min Dmg || 2 || 2 || 2 || 2 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 4 || 4 || 4 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 16 || 17 || 17 || ! Max Dmg || 2 || 3 || 3 || 3 || 5 || 5 || 6 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 8 || 29 || 31 || 32 || 33 || 35 || 36 ||
 * }

Shields don't suffer 25%
So a green or collector focus provides 25% energy. This same rule does not seem to carry through to a shields armor.

Testing was done by having a dervish (9-41 physical damage scythe without mods to add more damage in test senario), using wild blow (for consistent damage), hitting an assassin (with all infiltrators insignias providing 80 effective armor), with various shields equipped. All numbers were recorded with shields of 16 armor, req 9-10, and no bonus damage mitigation in effect. Tested with tactics at 0 and 12.

1 Not sure why this damage was recorded 1 higher. Testing partner had to leave.--Mooseyfate 17:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Damage WITHOUT Requirement Met / Damage WITH Requirement Met / Shield Source
 * 46 / 41 / bonus mission pack shield 1
 * 46 / 40 / shield from monster or chest drop
 * 46 / 40 / collector shield
 * 46 / 40 / green shield


 * The shield article states that not meeting the requirement only gives you 1/2 the armor. And based on the damage reduction, meeting the Req gives 8 more armor. --JonTheMon 18:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's great, but this article states a note about items in general only providing 25% in the case of collector/green/quest item. It does not state focus items only, that shields are exempt, or how it effects weapons.  --Mooseyfate 20:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)