File talk:Rank 15.jpg

Epic, makes me want to get rank 15 Kurtan 09:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good luck. Cope Land 07:04 CST, August 31, 2008

So, how many got this title now? 1? 193.91.164.176 13:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just starcraft so far. - Auron 14:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like somebody needs to get out more often!194.237.146.68 15:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

And this took how many years? ;D SarielV 15:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since release. - Auron 16:14, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Since the last reset mrite? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

So for wasting 3 years of your life in HA, you get a dragon emote? whoope... not gimmie the zahisen one over this junk anyday. 216.145.77.113 17:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ^hahah. This has immense prestige, the Zaishen will be waved away as "cashtitle olol" (which is true). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  17:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's more pathetic than anything. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Prestige? if you get no IRL cash reward whatsoever, I dont see the point in wasting 3 years of gaming for something that is only virtually prestigious... 85.90.8.28 18:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree with this post. There is no prestige anyway. This just shows time spent and build wars not skill. And there are 7 others helping get this for him. So yes this guy has no life. Sad really. oooh I get an emote for wasting 3 years of my life on ONE thing lol.


 * ...Stop editing Felix's comment. By that prev comment I assume you never got any Elite armor (let alone FoW) back in the old days (if you even played back then, Idunno), since it only showed you had a lot of time to spend to get that 80-something k. It may be virtual, but people will respect you for it. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I like how people who haven't achieved anything in game talk up the real life card. Maybe he plays HA to have fun, although that may sound farfetched. Lord of all tyria 18:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you seen what people are saying in-game about this poor Starcraft guy? Go to any large outpost or gathering place. There are rumors flying around that he dropped out of school to HA, etc. So far, I have seen nothing resembling respect, a lot of things resembling pity, and a lot of things resembling disgust. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you ever looked on GWGuru? You'll only find QQers on every little thing. Does that mean everyone QQs about everything? No, it just means they know better than to try to fight the masses of QQers. Besides, you'll get more responses from a "OMG DIS DOOD KILLED HIS PARENTS FOR R15, AND DROPPED OUT F SKOOL YO" than when you say "Wow, did you hear he finally got r15?" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:47, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Aside from starcraft, I was pointing out that whenever someone does something in-game, people instantly respond with "omg no lyfe". Lord of all tyria 18:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically: You only hear the moaners because they talk about it. The sane people keep quiet and remain sane. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:57, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Channeling/Healing Prayers/Smiting Prayers/Divine Favor. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Templates that suck immensely because I always change half of em before going. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Minority groups always cry the loudest.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 19:15, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Someone on the official wiki posted a video of it on some talk page, the animation is actually quite long. The breathing fire part is near the end. --Macros 19:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is on YouTube (where else?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUeVs70UKVw Winterbay 21:16, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Gladiator title emote p|0x. On the other hand..HOLY SHIT THATS AWESOME. GJStormcrowX 06:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Dunno if you guys know, but that account has ben used by a lot of people. It was not just 1 person who did all the work.... (Pluisje 17:27, 1 September 2008 (UTC))
 * Congratulations...you wasted years of your life for a decent emote...someone needs a hug...--Manbeast15 18:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

DO WANT! Badass... Anyone in for fame farming? ^^ --Franzwald 19:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, "Minority groups always cry the loudest." This is coming from the person trying to defend someone which probably benefits them nothing whatsoever. Trollmonkey 21:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Idc what people say but, this is really a great accomplishment and deserves respect. And the above post came from someone who is whining from being a called a minority. -Jax010 03:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I do give respect to them who got this...but does that make them better than us...no it doesn't. All this shows is they wasted so much time for what, a useless emote...instead of wasting their time, they could of been hanging out with friends or better yet...actually talking to females for once...--Manbeast15 04:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * psssst... you're participating in a discussion page on a website dedicated to encyclopedia-style documentation of a computer game. People in glass houses... 68.189.248.104 04:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, because clearly you can't have a life and earn this emote...after 3 years...considering all the guy did was play HA and probably didn't play many other games, that is plenty of time to have a life & still work. Cry more. Also someone should fix the stuff on the discussion page, and undo the last 4 edits to it...should probably lock it from edits, heh. DarkNecrid 04:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Clearly you guys have no life if all you do all day is complain about how someone has no life for playing a video game that you people play as well... Anyway, I found a better video of the emote here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU --Suicidal_SNiper 16:54, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good man.75.36.38.192 18:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * this isn't really new its probably been in the game sence day one75.172.47.227 03:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

A chance to discuss values
The problem here is not a difference in intellect or opinions, it is a difference (at its core) of values. If one accepts the thesis that this game holds value, then the question becomes this: what in the game is 'valuable'? If one denies the thesis that this game holds value, then the question is not even a logical one. (nothing within something that has no value can have value, basic parts of a whole axiom)

So the debate between those who staple any amout of value at all to this game is that of perspective, and the debate between those who value the game and those who do not is that of core values and probably worldview.

First lets address the two most dynamically opposing groups. If you staple value to this game, you must ask yourself, "What determines value?" likewise, if you determine the game has no value, you too must ask what indeed determines the value of an object or activity. the logical position of those that assign value to a video game is that anything that brings happiness or enjoyment must have value. the most logical point of view for the opposing is that one source of eternal consequence holds the only true value. This is because an object or an act does not find the root of its value in itself, but in the notion that goes into the decision to pursue it. IE if you eat an apple, you can do it from several perspectives: A. this apple makes me happy and thats all that matters, or B. I eat this apple because its eternal consequence is that it makes me healthy, and healthiness is good because of X (X = whatever your eternally consequencial source is, be it god, or a magical space pirate). if you find yourself not lining up with the logical position of whichever side you fall on, you are likely arguing from ignorance. IE You say this game has no value but you yourself value something that from a relative standpoint could be said to have no value by someone else (such as a sport, or even a girlfriend that calls you 'sugar daddy'). Equally, if you claim this game does have value yet deep down inside you function on a belief system such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, ect, you believe in a source of eternal consequence and value that holds all true value in only itself (simply, God, or, spacepirate jim) then your argument is equally made in ignorance. consider where the core of your belief structure lies before arguing the value of an in game title. If you believe there is a source of true value and consequence, then you should agree it has none and is infact a waste of time. If you do not believe in 'God', or even a macaroni space pirate named jim who deals in the reincarnation of your afterlife (you get the point) then you cannot really say anything has no value, because value is then relative, based entirely on perspective, and you are no one to babble.

The argument between the first group is much the same, except that both parties must accept that the thesis is true, and therefore, the negative has no place to condescend as there must be at least something within the game they deem valuable. Soooo yeah.

As for the argument of a vocal minority.... i would biasedly assume that there are plenty of people out there who arent saying anything about what a total faggot loser the guy is for wasting his life, but you see, they are probably at what one would call...a job, and have not even heard of this magical spell slinging internet crossdresser....(GW-Kiron 07:35, 2 September 2008 (UTC))


 * Maybe, but that makes us typing in a game wiki lame as well! :P


 * Cool.--71.128.198.151 09:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Too long; didn't read. :\ Arshay Duskbrow 09:54, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Your philosophical essay disagrees with me. "the logical position of those that assign value to a video game is that anything that brings happiness or enjoyment must have value" - I don't see how this is logical at all. Playing a MMORPG puts you in contact with other people and by setting you challenges to overcome, allows you to learn and grow as a person. Happiness and enjoyment may be incidental benefits. "the most logical point of view for the opposing is that one source of eternal consequence holds the only true value." - from my experience, a large number of those opposing would hold that earning money holds value, and I feel really uncomfortable calling that "one source of eternal consequence". But then I am "likely arguing from ignorance"... :-( - is that an argument at all, to dismiss counter-arguments wholesale like that?
 * Making a value judgment of a dedicated video game player without considering the situation he or she is in and the choices realistically open to him is rash at best. Likewise it is rash to speculate about the time it may have taken to reach that title without actually knowing the /age of that account. And thirdly, is it justified to expend your own energy in condemning someone who played this game for a long time and achieved this title when there may be others who played just as long and achieved nothing, or didn't play and watched TV all day? Strikes me as a bit unfair, that. -- (13:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC))


 * lol there's lot of people that like wasting time masturbating at computer.
 * The ones who flames for envy have time to waste insulting, not our friend who reach r15 playing a game he/she like and enjoyng him/herself. -Italian Guy- (sry for my english :| )
 * /bow and respect @ friend with R15 Hero title :D &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gianfi83 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC).
 * youve basically ignored everything i said in favor of quoting one sentence, i dont really know how to respond.. (GW-Kiron 16:55, 2 September 2008 (UTC))
 * Hey if you want to discuss it i guess post on my talk page, otherwise i wont be able to keep tabs on it. (GW-Kiron 21:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC))
 * Wall of text ftl, whole discussion is stupid. Laissez-faire; if someone wants to "waste [his] time" getting r15, let him.  He has as much right to get r15 as the next guy has the right to insult him for doing so.  Ain't gonna change anybody. 68.189.248.104 23:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * More than life philosophy or value, it boils down to what it takes to be the best. How do you win a competition? It's basically talent meets experience/training. Since you can't increase your talent (you're born with however much talent you have for something), you can only focus on training and getting experience to improve your skills. So everyone is training, so how do you get an edge? You train harder and more often than the other guys. You cut down your non-training activities to basic needs (eat and sleep), and you spend all your time training. This applies to any competitive activity whether it be HA, swimming, chess, etc. It's not easy to be the best, and 99.9% of us are simply unable or unwilling to make the sacrifices to reach that level - that's what sets it apart. Those that rip on others for being at that level are usually those that fall into that unwilling category and who are biter that it's not easier so that they could get some name recognition too without having to give up anything. It's really no different than a kid ripping on some other kid's cool toy because he's jealous he doesn't have one. So basically all those guys who rip on starcraft and others who have accomplished a lot need to either step up their games or just shut up, because they're only earning themselves the noob label in the truest sense. Zephyr Cloud 10:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't believe that training is all. You also have to be able to learn, to be flexible, and to adapt. You may think of these skills as "talents", but they too can be trained, but it requires not just effort, but reflection, too. --◄mendel► 23:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

This does not belong in the "What's new?" area
The emote has been there for a while, just no one had achieved enough "no real life" points to get to it.
 * Yeah, I agree, but we have to give Jedi SOME way to promote her fanatical devotion to pvp. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How is it not new? The emote may have existed technically but no one has ever had it or been able to show it. Additionally, its presence on the main page is a great way to circulate the news about it. In the PvP community, this is a very big deal. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Does it hurt anyone? Not that I know of. Leave it for another day, perhaps 2, then remove it again. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Leave it up another week at least. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 22:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't mind it staying up, I'm just being disdainful. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Felix you're always disdainful tbh xD  rąʂKƴ ɖooƿɭɘş 06:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

so uh

 * /Cough. "Idc what people say" - Indeed, if you didn't care what people's opinions are, you'd disregard my remark, so I'll start off my saying that you're a hypocrite. Also, respect can be subjective, depending on what is being respected. Also, if I was whining about being a minority I wouldn't ~lol'ing~ at the statements before me. Clearly there are more than many that would agree with my above statements, so this point of view is not of a minority. Honestly, try harder. Trollmonkey 05:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, the majority of people shuts the fuck up. I think there's, what, 10 people voicing their opinion, and a few like it. But, 10 outta thousands is not a good measurement. You should question, say, 200-500 people. And randomly. Say, in GToB ID 1, randomly whisper people with "What do you think of Starcraft attaining rank 15 in the Hero title?", and be non-suggestive. Then come back.
 * Another point: Where did you get that quote from? I don't see Nova saying that. You should try harder, my friend. Bring decent arguments. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  13:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Trollmonkey is replying to Jax010 (03:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)) up there. --◄mendel► 13:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, due to the fact that you cared to respond with the same ridiculously overused counters to this argument/quoting such terms like a broken record I'd say I don't have to try very hard, and thanks to someone as observational as mendel keeping track is unnecessary. I'll go out of my way to say bringing decent arguments to this case is no longer an issue. By the way, ~my friend~ I suggest following your own advice, seeing as how someone had to keep up for you I would try not to back up nameless android number seven above you. - @ That earlier comment: Interesting generality you're placing there, if I wanted to be suggestive and followed your idea of the general group of people that "Shuts the fuck up" you and your friend wouldn't have responded either. - Soi, I see dat here der r laik vary lil wai's to put dem wurds dawn wit out skipin da tinkin? Here's something suggestive if you're searching for something of that magnitude. [] Trollmonkey 15:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The point is, you indented, and commented below Nova's comment, generally implying you responded to him, rather than to someone more than a page up. Since I edit by section, using ctrl-f to find the quote was not useful. To me, it seems like you didn't really think a lot when posting that comment above. How would it be obvious to, in your words, "nameless android number 7" that you were responding to Jax? Yeah, go figure.
 * I respond whenever I damn well feel like it. Mendel responded cause I misinterpreted your comment as a reply to Nova, he pointed out you were commenting on Jax all the way up the page. You are taking my comment about most of the people not responding way out of context. People who have nothing to complain (i.e. the non-shitters who don't talk) don't talk about it. Sure, they could go spam everywhere talking about Starcraft attaining r15. But why would they? They probably have better things to do. The people who do respond, who are in fact a minority, are either shitters or people responding to the shitters (see where I'm going?). They don't have anything better to do, and talk about recent activities.
 * However, you cannot apply that to a conversation on a public page, which can be freely edited by anyone. If you can't see why, I'll leave you with this: Go see the sun. You say Starcraft has no life because he clocked an average of 8 hours a day (less than you sleep per day on average), only counted for being online, which includes any time spent AFK. But you QQ about him having no life. How can you possibly think you do have a life in comparision to him? It's a game, people spend time on games, they accomplish things. Or, they spend their time playing games and accomplish nothing, and start to cry about everyone who does accomplish something. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I’m truly disappointed that you are responding to this issue so emotionally and with such a closed mind. I recommend that you re-read the argument and then repost with a more reasonable answer to what boils your blood. I'm glad to see that yet again, you take the side of an issue which is completely retarded, unsupportable by facts, and not favored by the majority of players Lol. And in supporting this extremely unimportant, stupid issue (Which made front cover) you refuse to use any intelligent arguments, but just call the people who disagree with you pathetic overused names. In addition, you continue to not answer specific statements raised by those who can see through and tear apart your extremely weak and pathetic arguments (much like an amnesty issue). Seriously, have you ever participated in a debate with someone in person about such an easily mailiable subject? "An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim." A typical failmore tactic is using such remarks to discredit negative facts about ~so and so~. Thats pretty predictable due to the fact that the fanatics will always backup their hero, whether or not that person really gives a flying fuck about you in general. get back to me when you "Bring decent arguments."

Just like you'll respond to something whenever you damn well feel like it, I'll feel free to apply your faulty logic on the terms of which this guildwars 'Star' gained his position, in you and your follower's admiration. THe only difference between your mid-way analogies/accusations and my own are simply that: 1. You implied most of the people who don't respond are the majority, which also spend less time commenting and achieving goals (Orite much liek yurself mirite? Lol) 2. Due to the ability to prove this first claim you would be considered a shitter yourself for responding. "People who have nothing to complain (i.e. the non-shitters who don't talk) don't talk about it." - /cough defend moar 3. People who have nothing to complain about/laugh about (Apparently QQ'ing in your terminology) and those who commend Starcraft are in fact on the very same page doing exactly the same amount of work to defend their position meaning that you're basically calling yourself a shitter as well. 4. Using "Have nothing better to do" = weak defense --> "psssst... you're participating in a discussion page on a website dedicated to encyclopedia-style documentation of a computer game. People in glass houses..." - 68.189.248.104. @Your response "If you can't see why, I'll leave you with this: Go see the sun. You say Starcraft has no life because he clocked an average of 8 hours a day (less than you sleep per day on average)," etc, etc, cry, etc, /cut, etc - Indeed it seems we should both go see the sun, want to pick the honeymoon sweet for me baby? You apparently missed everything I've stated so far and are either making the implication that I said this person has no life, and if I don't have a life then as I stated earlier, pick the honeymoon sweet because we're both missing some sunlight apparently. [Glittering generalizations ftw] - "How can you possibly think you do have a life in comparision to him?" - Whether or not people accomplish things in online games, that is completely subjective. As for your very much, shitter-like, statement according to your logic; I'm supposedly QQ'ing about his accomplishment, which I have yet to state specifically in a complete and unshady fashion. In synopsis to your retort: Avoid walking the path of the so-called shitter, lest you become one with the shitt... - Owait, by your definition, you're also a shitter. Also, My apologies to anyone who was offended by the term Shitter, although it was not brought up by me. I should have used the politically correct term: Hypocrite (Aren't we all?) Lastly - Here's a present for you baby []. Trollmonkey 17:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Trollmonkey, you're doing it wrong. Ok, I'll concede you style points for turning my remark around on Viper - it's not you who responded in the wrong section, it's Viper's fault for not figuring that out ? - and for launching into a big paragraph filled with ad hominem and emotionalism only to decry your oppent for that forthwith. But to be really good at trolling, you need to write considerably less than the people you are trying to get riled up. The response/effort ratio is pretty close to 1 for you; if you were a good troll, it'd be well into double digits, and the very best actually manage triple digits on a good day - but I haven't seen that outside of Usenet yet.
 * Everybody else, don't feed the troll - just don't reply. --◄mendel► 19:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But I'm hungryyyyyy.. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 19:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Replace the emote.
So, seriously... Okay, no seriously. SERIOUSLY. - Replace it with something like this [] Trollmonkey 15:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * How's that more impressive than a Dragon flying around and breathing fire for several seconds? Besides, it would be the biggest let-down for anyone getting r15. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

~You are taking my comment way out of context lololol.~ Besides the fact that you're taking this overwhelmingly seriously lmao - *THAT* Emote is definitely not a letdown, just look at it. ITS FREAKING SPONGEBOB, /sarcasm. How can that cute little resilient face let anyone down? That is *more* than enough for someone who spent that long on an emote [B. Trollmonkey 18:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Enough is enough
I declare an END to all this trolling. Anyone clearly trolling will receive a ban of at least 1 day, and any from that same person on this page will receive an even longer one. And don't waste your time bitching about it either, it will be ignored. --Gimmethegepgun 22:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

can you spell power trip? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.240.69.31 (talk &bull; contribs) 16:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC).


 * P - O - W - ... ah well, these kind of challenges suck when they are issued in writing, I think they only ever catch college football players out cold. Anyway, if Gimme was on one, he'd be banning, not warning. --◄mendel► 16:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

so uh (for reals this time)
can we change the discussion to the actual emote? In my opinion the emote was a disappointment. The dragon flying in circles a bunch of times and then just standing there and spitting fire. Then poof, he disappears. Woop de doop. I mean seriously, this is r15! First, it needs to last longer and be a LOT bigger. Then you'll want to improve the dragon's flying sequence so it doesn't look like he's a hula-hoop. Make his flame huge and point it toward the ground - that way, r15s can go around intimidating people by having a huge dragon drown them in fire. A little bit more sparkle wouldn't hurt too. At any rate, as it is, I prefer the phoenix emote to this one... &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 01:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe they should've made a toggle-based dragon flying around your head (just a small one, one that won't disrupt vision and stuff) and had a big emote --Gimmethegepgun 00:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * play the game that long and all they give you is an emote? How about a refund, or mod powers, or infinite gold, or cheats enabled... youve done everything else, right? (GW-Kiron 17:04, 4 September 2008 (UTC))
 * black sheep wall :D --Gimmethegepgun 23:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The r15 emote need seriously to be more bigger. After 3 years to farm HA, player win "just" a little dragon who have nothing impressive. . . We gonna see just one or two r15 in GW life, so make it very, VERY awsome.
 * Not just "awesome", but like SUPER UBER PWNAGE of an emote, with the dragon flying and breathing fire and making explosions out of nearby others >:D and pls sign your user... --Kiega123456789ooo 14:23, 5 September 2008

It should have the POWER OF GWEN in beta INSTANTANEOUS COMBUSTION then ressed everyone in the town and a msgs you just got served and the emote will appear on everyone and its a guy taking a dump on your character and the dragons goes up and breathes fire on the entire city and kills everyone again and resses everyone and should say PWNED AGAIN BY: ....... well tht was my idea ImpulseDestiny 14:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)