Talk:Vocal Minority

Uh, wow. This is pretty much a complete area-wide Paragon shutdown, and it isn't Elite? O_O Arshay Duskbrow 18:31, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Not just paragon shutdown, this is ViM and IWAY shutdown. Lightblade 19:38, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Someone can check my math if they want but as far as I can tell, at 16 curses the duration on this will be 21 seconds, exactly equal to cast + cooldown, meaning literally complete shout and chant shutdown, which i get the impression would be quite lethal to a Paragon. --Colonel Popcorn 22:36, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
 * yes and no - In the Area means you need to be reasonably close. Hex removal gets rid of it and the Paragon's own skill Lyric of Purification can be used - provided the lyric is used before the necro casts (but be careful of necros covering with 1 second hexes if you do that - best to have a hex removal secondary if you're a shout/chant Paragon).  Even better, use a secondary knockdown as they approach and then Awe them, which should give you time to counter most anything. --146.122.71.143 18:47, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm pretty sure that means "in the area of the hexed foe", which means the casting Necro doesn't need to be close at all. Arshay Duskbrow 19:09, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * bad verbage - I meant the targets need to be relatively close together (but in the area is still pretty big).--146.122.71.143 10:26, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

The icon looks a lot like the "Matrix" interrogation scene, where Neo's mouth is melted shut. Or has such an image been used prominently before? --RolandOfGilead 19:10, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

Great, now my warrior can't use shouts as effectively. -.- --Life Infusion 19:58, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * try this - target the necro first and knockdown or interrupt all those 1-2 second skills. Necros are going to be pesky in Nightfall if left alone, especially since they counter both paragons and dervishes quite well.  I still don't think this will fix the fact that I haven't personally seen a necro primary in PvP in about 6 months, but maybe because it can be kept up indefinitely at L16 (21 secs required - 20 secs + 1 sec recast) we'll see more of them  --146.122.71.143 10:26, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Everytime I look at that icon I think "Hey!, That's Jon Stewart doing a Bush impression!" -

Trivia
That reference is even more obscure. Where does it state that message in particular as being the source of the skill's name? Also consider that "vocal minority" comes from the same branch as Nixon's "silent majority". --Scottie theNerd 21:58, 23 November 2006 (CST)
 * Agreed. Changed the page to reference the well-known metaphor rather than a dev's throaway reference to the well-known metaphor. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 22:46, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Hilarious that this piece of trivia for Vocal Minority made it through guild wiki's crack deletion squad: "The Skill icon resembles Paul Grays' mask, which he wears on stage when performing with Slipknot." It also resembles a man eating mashed potatoes with his mouth open.  The skill icon is clearly not a reference to Slipknot.


 * But this was deleted: "The name of this spell could be a reference to Alex Weekes' forum post on GuildHall.net where he addressed the PvP community as a Vocal Minority." While the actual forum and post are debatable, the Vocal Minority skill name 100% is a good natured, funny dig from a.net directed @ the vocal forum members. It has very little to do with a Nixon speech, other than the ancient origin of the phrase.  The current trivia kills the joke entirely.


 * It's as if you've removed the punchline "To get to the other side!" and replaced it with "Chickens have two feet."--24.206.111.186 23:15, 14 February 2007 (CST)

It's crazy to think that the name "Vocal Minority" comes from someone's post on a forum. It's a very common phase. I see no reason whatsoever to think that it's a reference to a forum post, rather than a reference to a conversation I had with some guy in town. People say "vocal minority" all the damn time. I'm removing that piece of "trivia". 124.168.132.14 10:02, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * It's not crazy at all, you're crazy for condemning it as you obviously weren't around for it. The PvP community was absolutely outraged, even after the quote was explained and was said to mean something other than it implied. It is exactly like Arena Net to then make a joke out of it and name a skill after it, and I commend them for doing so.
 * Few things are certain. We can definitely draw the origin of the phrase to President Nixon (which is not "ancient history", I should point out). Did ArenaNet name the skill as a bit of a jab at themselves? Maybe. Is it notable enough to put in the article and debate over? No. --[[Image:Rapid Fire.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  09:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The origin of the phrase is irrelevant. We're discussing the reason it was made to be the name of the skill, and it's as good a thing to debate as any. Most, if not all, of the active members at TGH would agree with me that the skill name is 90% likely to be have been named after the little slip-of-the-tongue made by Arena Net PR when addressing the PvP community. It is worth adding to the trivia as a possibility, at least.
 * Bias and conflict of interest aside, what is the basis of this claim? All I've seen on this discussion is a tenuous link to an ANet PR in a forum post, and several anons arguing "Hey, it refers to us, okay?" --[[Image:Rapid Fire.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  20:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The basis of the claim? That there is more interesting trivia to this skill name than something from one of Nixon's speeches. It would be nice if, for once, a skill name had something to do with the game devs. And here, that is quite likely the case. I don't see why you have such a problem with it, you're being quite obtuse in my opinion.
 * The problem I have with it is that there is no substantial evidence linking this skill name to a developer paraphrasing Nixon to refer to the PvP community. It's not that I don't believe you; it's more that your reasoning seems like reverse logic. The way you word your contention implies that you want a link, and this skill has to be it. If you can offer a contention -- or proof -- with more substance that what is being repeated here, I have no problem with it. Currently, it is a tenuous connection at best. --[[Image:Rapid Fire.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  23:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't exactly reference the Alpha forums because that would be against the EULA. But there was blowback on public forums and private forums because of this phrase. Scottie, you just need to trust people that know more then you. Reverted. --Narcism 00:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said five months ago, it isn't a matter of trust; it's a matter of substance. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  09:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Icon from The Matrix?
Anyone else think the icon looks like Neo in The Matrix right before the agents put that thing inside his gut (and Agent Smith says "... what good is a phone call when you unable to speak?")? Gamer6432 12:28, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It does look a bit like that now you've said it...Lord of all tyria 12:52, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Reminds me of Oddworld, Abe. --Rickyvantof 12:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

 It seems you have been leading two lives, Mr. Anderson. In one life, you are Robert Anderson, assistant cook at a Jack in the Box in Mesquite....in the other...you go by the chat alias "Randerson"...spreading homosexual propoganda, lying, and being a generally immature pest...  One of these...has a future.  LMAO OMFG where's the phone, I have to tell Dean about this  How can you use the phone when you cannot...speak? Quote taken from Bahs.org 

lololol &mdash;Shady Guy  11:07, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

Unfair ?
Skill overpowered? 1 non-elite skill to shutdown a paragon? i think they have to reconsider this. the spellcaster shutdown shadow shroud is elite. why is this not elite? i think a paragon is a really cool class to play. but u can shut it down with 1 non-elite skill.. that's abit.. well my opinion,, unfair. 86.91.128.247 16:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And do you ever see this being abused as much as caster shutdown (dazed and the likes)? I don't, for one --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 16:44, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And also, Backfire shuts down a caster, or Blurred Vision or the like a melee, as much as VM shuts down a Paragon... --[[Image:Ricky_sig.jpg|18px]] Ricky  16:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not to mention Empathy and Insidious Parasite being common melee shutdowns. Oh, and let's not forget Blind. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  19:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not forgetting the wonder that is hex removal. This hex is useful, but not overpowered, since it has to stick for a long time. Lord of all tyria 19:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Backfire Still makes a caster still possible to cast spells.. it just takes dmg.. and Blurred Vision Let them miss by only 50% chance.. both of them doesn't shut them down completely.. imagine you are a Healing paragon.. and u get this on you.. u won't be able to Cast AT ALL! not to mention.. this is COMPLETE shutdown.. if it would say.. u get 140 dmg each time u cast a shout or chant.. that would be more fair.. but my opinion about this is that it is too overpowered. a paragon is a GREAT class.. greatly underestimated as well.. it's like the paragon profession is allmost gonna die.. look around who plays a paragon. 1 non-elite skill to completly shut down their shout and chant.. not being able to do anything. You can better compare this spell to Pacifism and Shroud of Silence .. and not Backfire and Blurred Vision 86.91.128.247 11:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a reason it's non-elite, Vocal minority can be removed with any anti-hex skill except Hexbreaker Aria (and if aria is up beforehand even it can). Shroud of silence can only be removed by purge signet (even though it doesn't disable aria's use, the effect is based on casting a spell). Shroud is elite because it is incredibly hard to get rid of yourself (others can of course). Vocal is easy to get off yourself, and others can remove it even easier. -Ezekiel 12:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's overpowered at all. The duration is long enough to make it effective but it's not game-breaking because it doesn't have any other effects that come with it, such as degen. This and some other NF skills are about the only non-interrupt counters to the passive defense Paragons are used for in the PvP metagame right now, and provide a usable way to stop shouts. This skill has been used often in HA for a while, and even more so now that the zergway/iway junk is popular again. A good zergway team can still win with this used against them, and it's more detrimental to them than any other build out there. I'm all for keeping ways to counter the passive defense that dominates PvP nowadays. &mdash;Vendetta411 12:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Have u ever played paragon? does a paragon have skills to remove hexes other than hex breakers.. this skill is just TOO overpowered to Paragons.. Nr1.. not all paragons use Mo secondary for remove hex or something.. i think people have to adjust or limit the duration or something.. for there is ALLMOST no paragon.. who can counter this.. which paragon takes an anti hex with them? it's a waste of slot. it would be better if they would just reduce the duration.. as it can be placed on you for allmost all the time.. or let's say maybe 3 - 4 sec. not.. which still very small.. if they would up the recharge or nerf the duration.. it would be way more fair. 86.91.128.247 13:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have top 100 GvG experience as a Paragon, I know how annoying it can be to have this thrown on you...especially when the person doing it is good at timing when your important chants will recharge. Unless you're solo farming, I don't know why the Paragon would be expected to remove the hex himself. Paragons are geared for use in groups, and any good group will have Monks or Mesmers with hex removal. Even if you're PvEing, if you're playing a Paragon it means you have NF, which means you have access to heroes that can load hex removals for you. This only really decimates teams that are built around shouts and chants, such as zergway. If it's that much of a problem, the group should consider playing something that's not a gimmick in PvP, or focusing their build more appropriately for whatever PvE they're doing. If skills were considered "overpowered" because they totally own one gimmick or game mechanic, there would be tons of "overpowered" skills. &mdash;Vendetta411 13:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)