Talk:Game updates/Archive14

20/03/08
Assassins and Warrios nerfed again, Necros slightly buffed again......what a surprise? I actually enjoyed Mokele Smash....and Magehunter's was 1 adren too high to begin with, now it won't see any use again. G FUCKIN G ANet. Yet another huge screwup. Izzy probably needed more energy to spam Angorodons. -- Taki Fujiko  21:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hardly a buff. Jam[[Image:Jamster Sig.gif|19px]]ster 21:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, angorodons was nerfed pretty much. And was anything actually buffed in this update? Seems like many abilities that weren't even that great just go nerfed. Mr IP 21:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Some people might consider the change to Angorodon's Gaze a buff. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that no one seriously ran it without the conditional energy gain, the cost was and is 3 energy. The reduction in life stealing is a nerf to b-spike. In other news - YAY no more turret rangers. Tain 21:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't even think that only "some" people think it's a buff. It actually returns energy now instead of costing 3 and can be used as energy management when you are <15 Energy. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  21:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have been watching actively GvG and HoH this week. And all I see is a pwnage by the A/D dervish spike because of Fox's Promise which totally impeach from protecting the spiked target. I've first seen it with [HoH] Professionnal Athletes, and they have pwned a lot of guilds with this configuration. Good nerf then, because metagame was going to be boring stiff... The same applies to Full-Ranger Teams because of the buff of sundering skills, or Full-necro team, spiking with Angorodon as the second spike. The only thing I see in this udpate is that "Izzy" ( don't really who is he, only thing I understand is that he is in charge of skill balance ) is striving not to make the metagame becoming stalefish, with GvG,HoH and I even saw turret rangers in TA growing boring. As for the others update ( Warrior and mesmers ) once again the only thing I empirically see is that those skills have become overused and a little variety could be good to refresh GvG and HoH( but here mostly GvG) Topinambour 06:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC) ( for any complaints about my language, Talk!)
 * Definitely been lots of Bloodspikers out there abusing Angorodon's. I'm glad to see it's being given some attention, at least.- Am er  ic  an  Wr  ath // Ta  lk  06:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

F**K YOU IZZY
Are you on fucking crack or WUT, u fucking epic failing mofo, u should get fired@!Roxas XIII 21:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone's angry, might want to chill out a bit. Mr IP 21:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * GW:NPA --[[Image:OrgXSignature.jpg]] 21:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well he didn't attack any *person* now, did he? I start believing this...thing...isn't human. And "he" doesn't read our oh-so-unofficial wiki anymore anyways. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  21:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I still vote to remove Roxa's comments, they're just hate spam. Zulu Inuoe 21:28, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are you discriminating the non-humans? --[[Image:OrgXSignature.jpg]] 21:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm in love with a demon myself.. Zulu Inuoe 21:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's nice, but we don't censor people here- not on talk pages, at least. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Can we atleast switch the U and C with *'s? I don't much like the vulgar words, and I doubt anyone else honestly does either. Zulu Inuoe 21:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * IIRC we can censor extreme cases on talk pages. Mr IP 21:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * IIRC? Zulu Inuoe 21:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If I Recall Correctly. If just seeing the word causes you physical pain, then go for it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Guild Wars: serious business. Yikey ∞  21:58, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This wiki is o-so more useful then his brother. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

uhm, what?
Why Izzy? is this ur view of skill balancing, killing one skill after the other? what is GW to you guys really? instead of buffing the horrible skills u nerf all the others down to their level, when ur done we'll have a complete skill set of Balthazar's Pendulum quality skills... is that how u want GW to be? and still..u kill one class after the other, but cant see no changes to the Eviscerate spike really... its a 2 skills spike that can kill a player alone, even with monk support now that u bashed Guardian as well.. whatever really.. Im getting sick of GW, all that ever happens to it is this never-ending massacre of skills...... --Majnore 21:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What skills is everyone so upset about? This doesn't seem major... The Ranger stuff was nerfed because there was an overpowered HA build using it all I believe. Not sure abut the other skills..&mdash;&clubs; Jedi &clubs; Rogue &clubs; 22:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think people are especially upset about any of the skills in THIS skill balancing, I think they are upset that Izzy and the GW crew seem to have checked out. The A-net solution to ecerything is to constantly weaken everything. In most circles it is considered better practice to round things out by buffing something else to counteract the problem skill. A-net does not do this, and that means that eventually all the skills will be weakened to the point they are doing the same or similar things. ..... Thats really the only way you can achieve balance if all you ever do is weaken things. 68.14.76.172 23:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)E V E N H A N D S
 * What about mirrored stance? enduring toxin? seeping wound? wastrel's collapse? all these are forgotten and are in need of a buff --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What about the same skills, yeah, but then adjusted for PvE/PvP? We let everything in PvE stay unharmed, and when you enter the serious side of the moon, wham, nerf! Yikey ∞  22:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been seeing a growing trend where the skill balances are aimed toward discouraging characters from using skills in their second profession, particularly elites. Some are moved to the primary attribute or given conditional weapons clauses, others are made to scale from "1...31." One of the reasons Guild Wars has been successful is because of the variety involved in creating builds. Izzy is destroying that. I'm really surprised no rabid players have found his address and slit his throat yet. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * All the skills i mentioned phail pvp and pve-wise --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What?!?! You know his address!?! GIMME GIMME GIMME! --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 22:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * People who disagree with this update are complete and utter fucktards with no idea about game balance. Please be quiet. Lord of all tyria 22:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ^^^^Classic^^^^ Retro77

(reset)Haha - you really haven't woken up and smelled the coffee have you? The plan is to make GW as useless and unplayable as possible. Haven't you heard? There's GW2 coming... What possible reason do ANet have for wanting you to stay in GW using up their servers? they want to slowly kill it off.
 * That would be true, but if they fuck up GW more than it is, ppl will have less faith in buying GW2 Lord of all tyria 22:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry Lord, but no. When they murder half the skills in the game, they are not worthy any more of being defended. What I've always liked about this game is the diversity of the builds. What I'm seeing now is that skills are being practically destroyed, to almost no end. Do you really think people will use SoS with a 3/30 duration to cooldown? It really isn't likely. WY is dead, Enchanters Con. spikers are dead, Lions Comfort is dead, Guiding Hands is all but dead, Angrodon is dead, and rangers suddenly lost sundering/penetrating? In the face of these losses, what do we get? Earth Eles viable in pvp? I honestly don't see how you can be fine here. If they continue as this, then we will not have much left to play around with, leaving this game practically at the level of WoW. {End Rant, and btw, i just got edit conflicted x_X }  Oblivions Heart    [[image:Oblivions_Heart_(D-Dag).jpg|20px]] 22:46, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but yes. I assume you think the game was more interesting with signet of might making insta kills. Screw balance, I want unblockable, unprotable spikes. Who would want things that require skill, when we can have a multitude of skills that let shit players win? Lord of all tyria 22:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You must remember, that 90% of the people that play gw are, as you call it, "shit" players. He is arguing that a majority see these updates as unappealing. Also, your argument is weakened by your aggressive responses. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] Lann 23:00, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is to most people, is how many skills they nerfed compared to how many they buffed. I'm still waiting for Izzy to pull his head out of his ass and dust of some skills that have been needing a buff for 2 years now. :/ --68.111.234.189 23:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the IP, loat stop defending anet, they dont deserve it, players, stop attacking anet, they dont deserve it. go flame izzy on gww. &mdash;♥May♥ Wick♥ 23:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I will defend a-net when they make intelligent decisions. This update is, primariliy, intelligent. It hurt some OP shit. This is good. Lord of all tyria 23:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, i made a typo, stop defending Izzy is what I meant. hes an idiot, tbh- He nerfs things that either dont need nerfing, or nerfs things that do need nerfing into unusability. Why cant he just find a viable medium? The Mystic Regen nerf totally killed the skill, and there are quite a lot of other things I myself am angry at him for, but I dont troll. Anyway, to all you whiners, stop whining here and go troll izzy on his gww talk page. &mdash;♥May♥ Wick♥ 23:14, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Who cares, meta gets nerfed again, its a natural process and will continue as long as sheep keep following the meta, there is no point in complaining.
 * People like the poster of above section just need to go cuss at Izzy somewhere where he reads. --[[Image:AlariSig.jpg]] 23:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Does complaining about skill updates ever fix them? I think I can answer that for myself. Thanks. <font color="Orange">Retro77

I think the problem is that people are now basically forced into the meta-game. There is no longer a "game" outside the meta-game....... There hasn't been since Factions was released. Whats next A-net? Are you gonna allow Ursan into HA ?
 * Meta gets nerfed? How long has Evisc+Execu been meta? Frenzy+Rush? Bull's Strike? None of those have changed. Its the constant nerf to the same professions that everyone is getting frustrated at (no need to point at specific ones) and the ignorance of outdated, unused skills that have not seen the light of day for the past 2 or so years (see my comments above). --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 00:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The worst thing is: was never that good to being with. lol[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor  02:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with LoaT, albeit with not as strong words.. As I have stated before, ANet is trying to have the game as balanced as possible. They nerfed your favorate skill? Why was it your favorate; was it because it was the strongest skill ( Mystic Regeneration ) for that attribute and is used by over 50% of the GW population playin that class? I wander why Izzy thought it needed a nerf... No matter what changes are made, not everyone will be happy; and I personally think they will probably know what skills realy need a nerf and what don't, being the game designers, makers, ect. Try to keep in mind that ANet is more then likely not sitting in their offices, lookin over skills, and trying to figure out how to totally kill them just to ruin GW. Sigh... /end rant Foul Bane 05:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ps, i hate linking things like someones name or skills... I never get it right the first time. Lets blame Wiki administraters for not nerfing the wiki and making its code easier!1 Foul Bane 05:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I am going to throw my opinion in here. It seems unfair to blame izzy for nerfing your favorite overpowered skills in the game. I mean I loved Mystic Regen as much as the next guy, that single enchantment could ward away death for quite a wile. However we all knew that nerf was coming. And sure I get upset when anet nerfs a skill in one of my favorite builds and the nerf forces me to go back to the drawing board. However this is how the metagame evolves, anet nerfs builds, players find better builds to abuse, anet nerfs those new build, players find other builds, ect. Wile I doubt every single person will be pleased with skill updates, try to remember that it's not Izzy's fault, it Anet's fault in general for giving us Rits, Sins, Paras, and Dervs. And be thankfull they didn't throw the final fatal wrench into the mangled engine called "pvp" by introducing 2 new proffessions with GWEN. So you can flame Izzy all day and night for nerfing your new "1337 build" but when it boils down to it the blame is not one employee's lack of skill to "fix gw pvp", the blame belongs to anet in general for releasing Factions and Nightfall. Becasue I doubt pvp would be this insane if we still only had prophecies to play.--Godfather XP 06:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Guys, I Started this post and I dont use any of these skills, im a Restoration Rit.. Im not flaming cuz they ruined my "1337 overpowered build" im flaming cuz they are as said before pushing everything into meta, soon everything except the current meta will be destroyed. do u want that? Lord of all Tyria does, thats pretty clear from what he says. Do you others want that? I dont.. I like this game becuz u can do loads of builds, or at least could. soon it will be the "3 different speccs" as WoW is.. do we want that??? --Majnore 07:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Anet changes everything in relevance to meta. And thus, when meta is changed, they nerf skills until the original meta is back (this goes for the unseen usage for skill buffs, like the pew pew ranger). Now an unused skill becomes an overpowered skill which becomes a nerfed skill which is worse than it originally was. --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 10:32, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My rant was not aimed directly at you Majnore, I was just pointing out the uselessness to blame izzy for everything. So do not take offense :P --Godfather XP 20:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I didnt, did it sound like I did? my bad then =) my point was that ... well u can read above.. farming Destroyer Cores, kinda busy =P --Majnore 21:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never played PvP in any serious sense, so I won't understand the unbalancedness of some skills, but since the release of the game, Sundering/Penetrating attack were as they were, then they got buffed and abused, not they are weak and useless. Heck, they nerfed one of my PvE Builds that used them. Izzy really needs to get his priorities straight and stop nerfing skills from Godly to useless every other day. Only good thing I can imagine ANet could do would be to split the PvP and PvE skill stats. Make PvE Penetrating Attack deal it's 5...17...19 damage and have it's 20% Armor penetration, but PvP Penetrating attack be what it worthlessly is now. ZanderArch 22:07, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Here we go again. Skill changes keep the game evolving and make us think about new builds, wich is good. But it's not that simple anymore. In the old days, there was a metagame: players came up with good build ideas using the skills at hand, and then other players came up with good counter builds, and then new builds came along to counter the counters, creating a new flavor of the month, and so on. If, and only if, a build became impossible to counter for quite a while, then, and only then, came the nerf. But now, there's no meta: if players come with a good build, it gets nerfed before anyone can even think about countering them. That my fellow GW players, is the real problem now.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 22:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, players are far more lazier with their builds then when GW first came out. Mr IP 20:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

RESET INDENT: I'm instigating a new rule: if you utilise skill X in any of your favourite builds, you can not comment when skill X gets nerfed/buffed. This goes especially hard to all you assassins out there. I play all classes, and I'm pretty happy with the nerfs recently. What I'm really looking forward to is some good buffs for the mountains of useless skills. Especially the junk elites. 90.206.12.118 10:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * afraid that wont happen, Anet doesnt do that kinda stuff, buff skills I mean... why do u think there is a huge amount of pointless skills? yes, becuz Anet like skills that way, thats how they want all the skills to be, like this...--Majnore 12:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hai guyz.
Random page I found a few days ago. Misfate 23:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice find <font color="Orange">Retro77
 * Yellow sigs.....--[[Image:AlariSig.jpg]] 23:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Orange. Misfate  23:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, orange. I'll have to search for another, unused, color. <font color="Orange">Retro77
 * Done. <font color="Black">Retro77
 * So much for unused. :P --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  10:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

What a joke
I'm not actually sore about any particular nerf. In fact I haven't really been playing GW much the past few weeks (only started again the past few days). I'm most certainly not going to be buying GW2.

I'm assuming Izzy is still in charge of skills. For those of you Izzy-fans who think that Izzy is actually balancing the game, the fact that he keeps changing stuff every two weeks or so (sometimes even the same skill) shows to me that he isn't.

If Anet actually wants GW PvP to be taken seriously they should work harder at getting skills actually balanced, rather than flailing about every two or so weeks.

If they kept messing about with Counterstrike weapon strengths and behaviour every week (and forced everyone to endure it) people would have stopped playing Counterstrike, and it would be too much of a joke to play in serious competitions.

Yes, when a game's "gun" is overpowered you reduce the power. That makes sense. But what Anet appears to do is make a gun hardly anyone was complaining about (e.g. fine), overpowered one week, and a water pistol the next. Then after two weeks it's transformed into a boomerang or maybe even a bunny.

It is a bad idea to change reasonably balanced skills to something else "just to reduce staleness". Often some players get fixated on some builds and the other players are too stupid to find counters to them, even if there are valid ones (are useful in other scenarios too). In such a case instead of just changing skills, one could just suggest or hint about the counters to the community if they complain.

Imagine if the people in charge of Professional Lawn Tennis kept changing the standard size (or even shape :) ) of a competition level tennis ball every two weeks. Whether it's because of some complaints by clueless people, or you're trying to "keep the game fresh", or some other stupid reason. 118.100.13.63 20:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that some nerfs are unjustified, but if you keep it the same, it's going to be overpowered IWAY for ever <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  20:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I never said anything about keeping things the same and not fixing stuff. If Izzy is really fixing stuff why does he have to keep "refixing" them? 118.100.13.63 14:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There are too many skills in GW. And izzy is at the mercy of the people that think its possible to have 1000 viable skills. Lord of all tyria 21:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * On most of the skill tweaks, I don't particularly care one way or the other. Ursan Blessing is conclusive proof that ArenaNet lost interest in play balance sometime around when GWEN was released.  Quizzical 21:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I won't bother with GW2 either - because in May we finally get this. Everything GW and GW2 wants to be, but won't be :) 89.243.250.126 21:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping that Izzy stops nerfing so many skills and actually lets players counter them. People whine when rock beats scissors instead of incorporating some paper into their builds. That is why the meta is so stagnant. Max Steel 21:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but why should people bother to think about and practice countering stuff if two weeks later Anet changes stuff. Fix the most obvious imbalances, stop mucking around for a few _months_ and let people learn to play the frigging game. If Anet is worried about the top players always clobbering the noobs, just have different leagues for different ranked players (with an unlimited league where anyone can try their luck at). It's fairly trivial to have some sort of automatic ranking - even Yahoo chess has that. As for Izzy and the Izzy-fans, I have this to say- how a good a repairman you are is definitely not shown by how often you have to re-fix stuff. I don't expect 1000 viable skills (there are an infinite number of ways to hit a tennis ball, but not all of them are viable for pro play). But Anet shouldn't expect people to treat GW or GW2 seriously if they themselves don't treat GW seriously. 118.100.13.63 14:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * sorry to be off topic here, but.. why on earth would you be looking forward to Age of Conan? They can't even make a website that doesn't stall out- what makes you think they're can make an online game with viable playability?  Guild wars used to have lag, they mostly got rid of it.  I like what conan is proposing to do, but I really think these guys are trying to ride on the coattails of an epic character.. and they'll end up where everyone else who has tried to do that has ended up. --Blackdog 23:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Plus, Age of Conan is supposed to have a similar leveling scheme to WoW. Which is pretty much exactly what Guild Wars is trying NOT to be.

20/03/08 v2
What?! They nerfed the N/a spike thing? it wasn't even used! 193.91.164.176 22:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What's your point? It was overpowered and they nerfed.. nothing strange to me -{[ <font color="Black">PUL ]}- 00:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I had no point.. Besides, it wasn't owerpowered it was bugged.. 193.91.164.176 12:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

wow way to go anet - nerfbat out again.... i havnt played much in the last month or so but what exactly was the point in nerfing some pretty much already nerfed skills anyway? And what was with penetrating/sundering shot? agreed u could spam em but it required alot of e-manage... well done again on a unjustified nerf anet--XisdedOne 01:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow that comment is in the wrong section... --Gimmethegepgun 03:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Sad but True
Do a search on the page for "decreased damage". Then do a search for "increased damage". NUFF SAID!--Slic 03:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Nightfall power creep being toned down imo. Mr. Mango 19:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not "NUFF SAID!"... O_o I don't get it... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 08:29, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The number of skills getting damage reductions outnumbers the number of skills getting damage increases. More nerfs then buffs, simply put. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  08:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Atleast look on the bright side, they are atleast making an attempt to fix the game and their mistakes, imagine if nothing had changed since prophecies came out, IWAY ftw! lol--Beties Bro 00:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And technically, we've gotten a lot of buffs before, so if you count them all up, it actually breaks out more evenly. it's just painful when an update has no buffs and multiple nerfs. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  01:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically, nerfing one skill is like buffing all other skills, because it's all relative. By nerfing an over-powered build, you basically make lots of other alternatives more viable. Alaris 14:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)