Talk:Guardian

Don't you get this from that pre-searing quest where you have to protect Farrah from the bandits? 04:15, 6 March 2006 (CST)
 * Protection Prayers (quest) maybe not 04:16, 6 March 2006 (CST)
 * No, I think they forgot to add it to one of the quests. My N/Mo has done every single skill quest in the game, and I still have yet to purchase Guardian (I didn't even purchase Healing Breeze, I waited till I could switch professions). Evil_Greven 06:01, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Add a disambiguation message at the top, if wanted, but the skill should have the article. --Fyren 13:12, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

Aegis
does this stack with the effects of aegis additionally? will it be 100% block at 15 prot prayers with aegis??????????? -- Xeones  15:34, 20 March 2007 (CDT) No, it will not. It multiplies, it does not add. That would be 75%. --   15:37, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * One question mark is enough --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]] 05:11, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

???
I think you can get this in seitung harbour (factions) From the skill trainer.

Cyboid13 Cyboid13 14:25, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Notes Change
"It is more energy efficient than Aegis when the goal is only to protect one target, or to prevent a predictable melee spike."

This is no longer true if the aegis nerf remains. Will cost about the same and aegis will affect yourself and others for the same cost, since spell range and earshot are nearly the same.

Skill Update 9/08/07
it personally think this is overpowered now, 50% always even with nothing in prot. needs a longer recharge or something 24.66.94.141 18:34, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It helps me alot, now my monk has a good block, even with a short recharge time. And I only have to dabble in Port to use it effectively!  So maybe its a tid bit.--Gigathrash 01:47, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * it's not that overpowered, if you want something to counter melee w/ no attribs, use shield bash, 2 seconds of blocking won't help too much, especially with a 1 sec cast time Moush 01:41, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's hardly overpowered since even at 12 prot the duration isn't too much, and like somebody said it's a 1 second cast time. I support this buff. Zulu Inuoe 13:38, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well you may think it's not overpowered... you probably didn't face where that skill is absurdly too strong... I just went in TA and saw a Bonder with that skill guardian... The Only thing he had to do was to Guardian himself and there was absolutly nothing to do against that team... In a 4 vs. 4 scenario that skill is simply unbalanced at all --Infernal Aura 16:06, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Unfortunately, one of the hard facts about RA and TA is that the skills aren't balanced around 4v4. Izzy balances them specifically around high-level competitive play. There's just too many weaknesses that you can't cover on a 4-man team. - Vermain 03:31, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Considering that I already depended a lot on Guardian before the buff, I am one of the people saying it feels a little overpowered now. But hell, I am reaping every minute of it while it lasts. :D It is too bad Aegis had to take the shaft for it, though... (T/C) 03:58, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't find the nerf to Aegis that bad. Earshot is still a rather large range. --Kale Ironfist 05:08, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The last thing Guardian needed was a buff. Now it's on every single Monk build in RA among other places. Sirocco 13:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You could look at it another way. Since RA is teeming with tons of melee damage from warriors, assassins and dervishes then Guardian is designed to "nerf" them. It is one of the few defenses a monk has against such heavy melee spike damage.

Nerf
4 second recharge now. 76.89.81.150 00:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * onoz? --Shadowcrest  00:37, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Stacking?
I was in TA with an ele warder who was using ward against melee, I was the monk, in the ward and had guardian maintained on me, an attacking warrior didn't get 1 hit through to me until the ward went down. Do guardian and ward against melee possibly stack to make 100%? 65.34.193.183 20:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 75%, the odds are rolled one after another. I'd find a link but I can't think what it'd be under. Jamster 20:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * sorry but why don't people understand this stuff its so simple, if you go to walmart with a 50% of coupon and you buy bananas marked 50% off its not free... Lost-Blue 21:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * But if you had a 50% off coupon, and the bananas were 50% anyway? Jamster 21:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If the bananas cost 100p normally, 50% off would be 50p. However, if you then use the 50% coupon, you would take off 50% of 50p, ie. 25p. So it has been reduced from 100p to 25p and therefore 75%. Use this in guild wars terms, it means 75% of attacks are blocked rather than 100% or 50%. Piggyboy 18:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Funny thing
The funny thing about Guardian is how easy it is to beat in RA, where a second support character/healer rarely occurs. Most monks are incapable of both keeping Guardian up 100% of the time on themselves and healing their party (energy just wont keep up). A very good tactic for a Hammer wielding player is to watch when a monk uses Guardian, watch how long it lasts (if the monk has another enchantment, watch for when they cast it on themselves again) then either as it is ending, or as the monk is casting a spell on another ally and it is about to end, or when the monk is using another spell on themselves as it is about to end, execute a hammer spike chain. The monk (unless a Mo/R or Mo/W) will usually have no other blocking skills in their bar and will be utterly defenseless to the spike.
 * This is just an observation that I have made over the 3 years of playing GW.--71.67.243.230 05:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

...or you just spam rending touch untill their precious guardian is nomoar,doesnt require your precious 3 years to do that83.249.119.162 14:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * pwnt 78.20.153.111 16:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Just about any Monk these days is Mo/W Dual or TripStance, so you'll just need Unblockable. Or count, since Stances cant be kept up indefinatly. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Icon...
Can anyone tell me what this icon shows, I can't seem to make it out...Konradishes 04:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC) It's a guy with a sword and shield. 05:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahah, k, see it now ty.Konradishes 03:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

50% should mean half
...but it doesn't seem like it is. I never get around to doing any kind of intensive testing but I'm convinced the chance percentages on Guardian (or perhaps with GW mechanisms in general) aren't accurate. 50% block means roughly half of all attacks should be blocked. When you try to savage/dshot a monk with guardian on himself, it sure as hell doesn't feel like you're landing as many as half of them--and, more so, 75% always seems closer to 90% in actuality. Going on sheer probability, if something has a 50% chance to occur, the likelihood of it occurring 6 times in a row is very low (~0.8% chance). To see that rarity occur numerous times in a small time frame (an hour of RA, for example) is infinitesimally unlikely. Yet how often, as a warrior, do you see that aggravating yellow "block" for the fifth or six time in succession? Inversely, how often do you manage to land 6 hits in a row through guardian? Certainly not as often as the block chains, despite what 50% implies.

If I ever find the patience and another person with whom to test the probabilities rigorously, I'd be curious to see the large-scale tally of, say, five thousand attacks on a guardianed target to see how close to 2,500/2,500 the results actually are. I would wager on the results appearing closer to 3,000 block / 2,000 land, if not more imbalanced than that. 96.237.232.251 10:21, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically the probability of 6 hits in a row is just as likely as any other combination of hits/misses. But I'm going to instead blame a trick with perception that causes people to remember only the times that guardian works because when it doesn't work nothing special happens. -Ezekiel  [Talk]  11:18, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Technically the probability of 6 hits in a row is just as likely as any other combination of hits/misses." That's correct, but not properly applied in this context. It is just as probable as 5 blocks and 1 hit IN THAT ORDER. Otherwise, for 5 blocks and 1 hit, it's once for each possible order of the events, making the total change to hit once in 6 attacks 5 times as high as getting blocked 6 times. I'd like to test it too. I didn't actually realise this before, but indeed, as a martial class, you get blocked an awful lot of times when compared to the theoretical listed percentage.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:48, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * GW has a pretty awkward RNG. It's far from truly random (as are most RNGs, mind you). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just did a quick test and the chance seems quite normal and accurate.. I tested it with students on the Isle of the Nameless.
 * 1st test: Student of Disease - Hits: 29 Blocks: 19  Special:3 blocks in a row happened 2 times. 6 hits in a row happened 1 time, 5 hits in a row happened 1 time, 4 hits in a row happened 1 time, 3 hits in a row happened 2 times.
 * 2nd test: Student of Weakness - Hits: 29 Blocks: 37 Special:5 blocks in a row happened one time, 3 blocks in a row happened 3 times. 3 hits in a row happened 3 times.
 * 3nd test: Student of Disease(again) - Hits: 36 Blocks: 35 Special:3 blocks in a row happened 3 times. 4 hits in a row happened one time, 3 hits in a row happened 3 times.
 * Total: Hits: 94 Blocks: 91 
 * First time I was a bit unlucky, second time I was a bit lucky, and third time it was exactly 50%..not a lot of numbers but just how it should be imo.
 * BTW, I also thought the chance seems higher than 50% before the test but I doubt it now. [[Image:EM Signature.jpg]] ***EAGLEMUT***   T  A  L K 17:12, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * The moral of the story is that most humans have terrible intuition about probability. Quizzical 17:34, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * A bit of a non sequitur on that 'moral,' and sounds more like ignorance of NPA than constructive contribution, but I suppose that's possible. If you are blocked five times in a row, your sixth attack still yields a 50% chance of block/hit, true.  Prior events have no effect on the probability of a present chance's outcome; however, the probability of a 50% chance between A and B resulting in six As in a row is different--the same as a slot machine's chance to land on a winning roll twice in a row being virtually unheard of, while single wins are (albeit still very rare) relatively regular happenings.  Frustration causes an individual to remember more block chains than hit chains, I'm sure, but I actively recognize when my hit chains land because they're so surprisingly rare.  Landing just two in a row would be enough to make a mental note of (eviscerate + executioner's both landing on a <50% HP guardianed monk), but even that seems impossible compared to double blocks.  I'm very curious to see chanciness tested from numerous angles--tally of regular attacks, tally of attack skills, tally of double blocks/double lands, triples, quadruples, etc, all lined up.  I'll try to find some time for this in the next week or two. 96.237.232.251 05:27, February 5, 2010 (UTC)