GuildWiki talk:Wintersday/Raffle

Why are we paying for DONATIONS?--Łô√ë îğá turkey 06:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Because you're fat [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not entering until either the payments are used to buy something from someone besides Felix (which would basically be free money for him) or the fee is wiped.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 06:43, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This seems as good a time as any to mention my program (specifically built for this sorta thing) without any provocation whatsoever. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 06:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What program?--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 06:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Giga, that's how a raffle works. Or would work, except that everyone who enters gets a consolation prize, so I probably won't break even. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The money from a raffle entry is used to buy the thing that the winner gets, not to compensate a donator.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 06:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You want it, find it. It's really easy, I'll even throw you a bone: It's on my userpage.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 06:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I already downloaded it, lul. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:00, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Giga just got pwnd, methinks. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 07:02, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry RH, but I am unpwnable. Also, nty to your program, Arbitrarily assign number slots and use any old random number generator, and designate the previous winner as void and just reroll as needed.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey  07:06, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (Reset indent) K so, the way it works is, everyone chips in 1k in order to reimburse the person giving an item to the winner. If the winner doesn't want your item, then you get your item back and there's nothing to reimburse for. The winner can also just take the cash if they want to buy something not on the list. --Shadowcrest  07:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (following the rules of chat unlike someone) ::in House's voice:: Yeah, but my way is easier.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 07:13, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (RI)Fuck conformity. I follow my own rules.  Since when is easier better?  EDIT, wait that would imply I follow rules.  Disregard the middle bit.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  07:14, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (EC) Since Bill Gates made Windows 3.0 and became the richest man in the world. Theres a reason there are wikis, because that philosophy is a very valid one.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 07:16, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

choosing the winner
I have changed the rules of the game to be more like an actual raffle/lottery. Also, I don't know how the random winners are going to be chosen, but RH's program looks as good as anything. (T/C) 14:11, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Choose them with /roll, obviously. Go by the signup list, or sell numbered tickets. --◄mendel► 02:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC) & 02:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What if everyone can't make it at the same time? --Shadowcrest  02:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Use GW's roll function like Mendel said, but everyone doesn't have to make their own roll. Start with /roll 13 or whatever, first number it chooses is 3rd prize. /roll 13 again, second (different) number is second prize etc. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 10:20, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Clarifying: We have a list of entrants. Number the list. Say 7 people enter, the host then does, the result could be 5, so the 5th person on the list would be the winner.
 * Extending the idea, you could sell consecutively numbered tickets for 1k each, list the the ticket numbers and the buyers on the wiki, and use /roll to pick a winning ticket. --◄mendel► 19:33, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That is a good idea, but then we're limited to 100 tickets, and what if some scrooge buys them all? D: [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well if you /roll 100 twice, you can have the first roll be the thousands and hundreds digits,

so /roll 100 => 34 /roll 100 => 78 ===> 3478. Of course if we only sell less than 200 tickets, we only /roll 2 for the hundreds, etc.. --◄mendel► 23:39, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering the number of prizes we have, we could have 10+ winners, depending on how many tickets are sold. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Benefit
A real raffle benefits some good cause, so maybe instead of distributing the proceeds we could use them to make a GuildWiki guild with a mule that holds rare items and/or money to be used for purchasing items for photography, dyes for armor screenshots, etc. &mdash; or would that be a bad idea? --◄mendel► 19:33, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What a nice idea. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:20, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sign me up Tenetke 23:27, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Organization
I realize this whole affair is still at an early point in development, but maybe some ground rules should be drawn up. Like what to do if an entrant receives a prize, but isn't present (hold the prize until they log on for a period, or simply re-roll/sell off the prize?), where the event will take place (looks as if it may possibly the guild hall mentioned on the party page), and other provisions.

Most specifically, I'm curious about how entries will actually be handled. If the event will take place in a guild hall, will guest invites be extended to entrants once they pay the 1K fee? If that's the case, the listing of entrants on the wiki page might be inaccurate for the purposes of prize selection. Since not all of the people who sign up here necessarily get around to paying.

Yes, a lot of the things I just mentioned are being discussed on other pages, or further up on this one, but centralizing it couldn't hurt, right?

Renian (T|L|B) 00:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * On the guild hall note, we discovered there is a guest invite limitation of 20 people, so we're probably moving the party to a regular outpost, so that shouldn't be a problem. Anyone who hasn't paid by the drawing will be excluded from the drawing. They have nearly 4 weeks to arrange something, so I probably won't make any exceptions. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems logical all the way through. You might have to poll the entrants to see which campaign is most common among them, unless we want a lot of people being unable to make it. But there's still plenty of time to worry about all of that, I suppose. [[Image:Renian_Signature.png]] Renian (T|L|B) 01:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

ticket numbers
It's a bad idea to post how many tickets each person has bought, or how many tickets total have been sold, because then everyone knows the odds and whether it's worth it to buy more tickets or not. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 15:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and there should be a limit on how many tickets one person can buy. Otherwise there's the possibility of one super-rich person buying 1,000 tickets and winning everything.  Probably something like 10 or 20 tickets per person would be best.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, can we pick numbers? The odds of getting anything from 001 to 010 are so small... Also, iirc you can't even roll a 0 (ever seen a regular dice with a 0? :P ).. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * {Javascript example} Math.floor(Math.random*10) = integer from 0-9. Most d10s that I've seen are numbered 0-9, too, not 1-10.  There's an equal chance of getting any one of those integers, for each digit: 000 is as likely as 739.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

"''Well if you /roll 100 twice, you can have the first roll be the thousands and hundreds digits,

''so /roll 100 => 34 /roll 100 => 78 ===> 3478. Of course if we only sell less than 200 tickets, we only /roll 2 for the hundreds, etc.''"


 * ^Quote from Mendel. This implies using GW's /roll function, no? Still, 001 is less likely to occur than 739, because statistically, top/bottom end numers are rolled less often. Math and science cannot explain everything. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know where you get that, on a single die roll/random number generation, all numbers are equally likely. If you roll two dice together and total them, then the odds are skewed to the middle, but for a single die or two dice read side-by-side (2d10 read as a d100 roll) it's all equal.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * "all numbers are equally likely." is theory. Anyways, I had to roll a dice ~200 times for a school assignment (They still never told me why I had to roll that much...), and sure, the difference wasn't that big, but it was noticable. Oh, and in the end we will be rolling several dice; see the page (just read it... It also answered my "what about 0?" question... Read first;ask questions later yada yada). -- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:05, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's theory, that's the entire point of probability. It's equally likely in theory that a die roll will end up on any one of the possible numbers, but once I actually roll it, it's not theory anymore.  In order for a practical application to match theory, you would have to have an infinite number of data points - that's why you had to roll 200 times instead of, say, 20.  If you did it again, your results might be skewed the other way, with the top/bottom being more likely.   &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure if it is relevant but the reason that it goes 0 to 9 instead of 1 to 10 is because the basic array starts at 0 and not 1. There is a way to correct that though. You would need to use something along the lines of

That isn't very good code but I wrote it really quick to give an example of what I was talking about. This can easily be changed to allow for a custom int value to represent the maximum value wanted. Tenetke Mekko 01:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The ticket numbers are publicized so there won't be any arguments over who has the winning ticket, and the number of winners will be proportional to the total entries, and the prize limit is proportion to the total winners, so there's no chance of a single person winning everything, or even close to everything. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:08, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you institute a price limit, the return on investment diminishes as people buy more tickets, making the game unfair for those who buy the most. Dr Ismael's concern about getting "bought out" is unfounded, because as the chance for your ticket winning diminishes, the sum you get when you win increases, which evens out. But I agree that having more prices to give out will probably leave more people happy. --◄mendel► 01:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait, what? as the chance for your ticket winning diminishes, the sum you get when you win increases?  Your ticket gets drawn, you win a prize, no matter how many tickets you had in.  If you had more tickets in, then you can win again, but only 1 prize per ticket.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The prize limit is an acceptable (albeit after-the-fact) alternative to a ticket limit. I still don't think ticket numbers should be published while tickets can still be purchased - for accountability, you can wait and post them immediately before the drawing.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Reasonable enough. I can keep track of them privately. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't care if I win anything, this is going to be great. Also when can I start donating prizes ? [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke Mekko 02:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)