Talk:Guild Wars 2/Archive1

Wiki Coverage
Im wondering if this actually ends up to be a game, will the wiki cover it? Hoax 16:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I bet it will, or it will at least have a GW2 sister project. Besides, who said that Guild Wiki was only for Guild Wars 1? Guild Wars 2 is still a Guild Wars game in my book. Alreajk 19:11, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I suppose you could use the official wiki, so we don't end up with 2 separate ones. 132.203.83.38 08:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

GW2 INFO!
GW2 INFO!

Default Guild Wars 2 Summary Hundreds of years later, in Tyria... sounds more of a race-reliant struggle.

Predominately open worlds, with Instancing as a secondary feature in some areas (not positive on the interpretation). Hundreds of people in the same area, and choices that the population as a whole change the quest structure. PCG gave an example of choosing to rally against a dragon or not. Those that help, gain loot and xp. If the dragon isnt driven away, another 'quest' may trigger, leaving more options for the population. Very cool idea IMO.

I'll just take the level cap stuff directly - "Events will also offer a way for players of different levels to keep interacting in the persistent world - which is crucial, since right now, ArenaNet is planning a very high [100-plus], or possibly no level cap"

Sidekicks simlar to CoH, allowing powers to seep from a high level character to a friendly lower level char.

'Click to move' will be abandonned in favor of a more freedom-rich control scheme, including 'jumping, swimming, and sliding'

destroyable environments?

no real world limitations to servers. you pick a 'world', but can switch between the realms.

World vs World combat sounds to be a massive scale capture the flag (AB style?) with no minimum or maximum party size. Big-ass raids that can supposedly take place for weeks on end. At the end, the 'world' will be reset, and it will start again it seems.

GvG will still be present, as a more balanced form where everyone is on a level playing field.

Companions: NPC like heros can join you (like a pet it sounds), and dont count towards your party. Not using this feature lets you be mroe powerful.

I think I read somewhere in here that it will be mission-based, but I didn't see it in my quick second-look.

As of now, there will be no monthly fees, and no 'campaigns'... mini-expansions, and expansions are hinted at.

If I think of something else, I will add it... or someone else can :P

Thorton 17:42, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Ew.–Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 17:58, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY HA--Nog64Talk [[Image:Yaaaay.JPG]] 18:02, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * So now we are getting WoW without monthly fees = more little kids and less content than in WoW? I don't have anything against WoW, but to me the ideas behind GW were superior. They are scrapping most of what I loved in this game. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:04, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Where are you getting this information from? The official site says that the earliest date any magazine with this info goes up for sale is March 23, in Romania. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 18:06, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Those are the dates when they are for sale on shops, but people with magazine orders get them earlier. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It's both on GWG and GWO forums. Magazines have gone out a few days in advance for subscribers. --Dirigible 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Straight from Gaile Gray: World PvP will allow you to play characters of any level, using the skills that you have in your possession at that particular time. Structured PvP (similar to today's GvG) will allow you to enter the game at maximum level with all skills. Yes, that's UAX. Roleplaying Characters will gain the opportunity to acquire higher levels. I believe that the magazine refers to a cap of 100 or more. This is an opportunity that players have been requesting over the last couple of years. I know that personally, I like the idea a lot. --Dirigible 18:10, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

HOLY ####! lvl 100+?! that takes ages, but it's cool :) InfestedHydralisk   18:26, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm, I think I need to know what benefits extra levels bring before having an opinion on this. If it's just a reflection of XP, no problem. But... More HP? More attribute points? That could be a problem, especially for PVErs taking part in PVP. However, in the past Anet has done a great job of creating a level playing field, I don't expect them to abandon that. I'm optimistic. — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 18:33, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yuck. GW2 is going the way of WoW.  The whole level cap issue depends on how long it takes to get to lvl 100+.  I guess if all the XP rewards are like factions ones on steriods then it might be ok, but I'm still not a fan of this.  The entire huge raids and World PvP sounds kind of cool, but other then that, bleh. Turk Nagona 18:58, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

So far GW2 sounds like a piece of #### version of WoW... lvl 100+? whats the point of that? I enjoy the fact guildwars is unique in so many ways, and now they are going to make it a piece of ####... disapointing...~Readem (Btw, if they just added more skills, items, professions, and a fe new features, I'd be plenty satisfied...)


 * Agreed. If I wanted grind and 100+ levels I'd be playing WoW or some other crap.  GW has died.  --[[image:Epinephrine.jpg]] ~ Epinephrine 20:30, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * However, apparently many have been asking for a higher level cap than 20. GvG sounds like it won't change very much at all. As long as they can maintain a game based more on skill and skill choices, then I think it will still maintain the challenge. Many of the problems people have with Guild Wars deals with the instances that are yours and yours alone. While it is nice, some people want to be able to meet others in the Wilderness. Also, shouldn't this talk be more about GW:EN? I know I'm guiltly of being offtopic, but Guild Wars 2 needs its own page now...I think... Trogam 21:04, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * World battles seems awesome, and apparently it "resets" after a designated amount of time, probably around a month. Also, with what little, if any, storyline there is for Eye of the North, you get to play as a Charr. Presumably, that means you're going to be north of the Great Wall a lot. The game lore says that the Rift from Tyria to the Gods is in the Tombs of Drascir, which is north of the Wall. Anyone think that the Old Ascalonian ruins of Rin, Drascir, etc. will play some sort of part in the game or be explained more in Eye of the North? Nhnowell 21:18, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

No level cap? or 100+??!??!?!? NO!!!! THEY HAVE RUINED GW! >.<, thats it. I'm hunting you down, Gaile! Caramel Ni 21:23, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Clicky here for a picture of grown-up Gwen. --Dirigible 21:24, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * She's hot. I would say that she couldn't possibly be Gwen, but hey, what other child did we meet in Prophecies? Oh yeah, the flute she always wants and the red iris flowers fit with the mesmer theme :)Beliefs Cloud Thoughts. 12:39, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

More pics please?


 * How can that possibly be Gwen? Gwen was no more than 9 or 10 in Pre.  It's only been a couple years or so since then, so she would be no more than 12-14 at most.
 * I don't see how she could be all grown up already. Kristy Dragonslayer 02:44, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Nightfall takes place 5 years after the Searing and 3 years after the end of the Prophecies and Factions campaigns, and they may advance the timeline further for Eye of the North. -- Gordon Ecker 03:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, Gwen will be considerably older, but my issue is this... her armour is reminiscent of a Mesmer's, while I'm fairly certain she had Monk skills in Pre. Call me crazy, but so far all storyline NPCs have been given armour that resembles certain features of their class, if not all. -- Elveh 07:10, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * "When I grow up, I'm going to be a hero like my daddy. I'd like to be a warrior, but the mesmers' outfits are nicer, don't you think?" From the list of quotes Gwen says :) --24.250.248.144 08:12, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I'd completely forgotten about her quotes, but then, I've not paid attention to them since I last spent time in Pre, which was over a year ago. It still seems weird, though. :) -- Elveh 13:46, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, we might be able to jump in GW2, now wont that be exciting lol -- Xeon 22:52, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

IMHO, it all sounds like a dream coming true. Only my opinion though, so don't be in rush to bash it >< PvP chars at maximum level at start? That may means only more PvP chars will be created and played until PvE can reach the top. PvP and PvE pulled further apart? Quite possible. Personally, I've tried WoW only to find out that I hate it >< all this grinding drove me crazy in like 2 weeks. If GW2 is going to be (quest+mission, actually I hope for a NICE storyline)-based that should more or less enough to avoid heavy grinding. Old Freelancer game (single-player campaign), looks like a very good example to follow. And to say that I want to be able to run directly from Ascalon to Kamadan with a stop to rest in Kaineng... I'm gonna LOVE it =) fR0z3n.S0u1 02:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Getting to level 20 is a minor inconvenience. What is it... two or three days? I wouldn't mind seeing a slightly higher cap so that reaching max level is actually an accomplishment. Or maybe no level cap (just no more health or attributes past a certain point). As long as they keep it free of monthly fees, I'll make due with it.--Warwulf 03:40, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * About gwen, she might be 1 of the new hero's in guild wars:eyes of the north :)--Want2be 11:56, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

More Info
I guess people had better start writing articles for GW2 now. The name has been confirmed by PC Gamer, and the Beta is allegly going to start in 2008. Trogam 21:09, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Races
"Humans, Charr, Norns, Asurians and Sylvarians"

We know right now what Charr, Humans and Asuras are, but any ideas on what Norns and Sylvarians are? I'm guessing Norns might be Shiverpeak-like Dwarfs, but Sylvarians could be anything. I'm hoping for something Tengu-like. Concerned Citizen 23:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * As for Tengu-like, we already have Tengu. I cannot fathom what the Sylvarians will be like but I'm pretty sure every Sylvarian character will be named Something Legolas or Arwen Something :P Ishmaeel 00:06, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My personal guess is that the sylvarians are going to be some kind of elf or tree-creature lookalike. Mostly because of etymology of the name - "sylvarian" most likely comes from "sylvan", an adjective meaning "of the forest", although it can also refer to a wood spirit. Just my 2 cents. Phydeaux 04:42, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, it was an easy guess was it not? Lookie-look (Check the external link to Sylvari there) --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 06:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I remember reading from the article ANet are a bit tight lipped about races and stuff. Perhaps that means there are other races available that they haven't announced. So that could mean Tengu and maybe even Dwarves will be there. 132.203.83.38 08:06, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Level cap
After reading the summaries and the post of Gaile, I came to the conclusion that PvP will probably have a low level cap, something like lvl 20, to keep the battles easily balancable. PvE however will go up to 100 or even uncapped because players have wished for it. It seems that all levels will make your character tougher so that high level chars are incompatible with low level ones, otherwise they wouldn't need 'events that allow low and high level players to play together'. -- (talk) 03:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

That's pretty bad IMO, the level cap made Gw's unique. Solus  03:53, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea I agree, but I think they are trying to compete more directly with mmorpgs such as WoW and EQ2 with this game, so a lot of the things that made Guild Wars 1 unique will not be seen in the new game. I don't think the target audience is precisely the same as the first game, which means quite a few of us here won't be enjoying Guild War's future.  :-( :-( :-( --Wormy 04:25, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm personally in favor of a higher PvE level cap... it feels like the plotlines could have used a higher level cap. I mean, maybe up to level 40 or so, simply to allow more progression in character power as you move through the game. I wasn't a fan of "level 20, now start the real game" design of Factions, and to a lesser extend, Nightfall. Phydeaux 04:45, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Whilst I would like to see a level cap higher than 20 I am now glad there isn't, since I like to have one of each profession on my character selection screen. Having the low level cap of 20 helps to let people experiment with what other professions have to offer.  GuildWars is unique. Lets keep it that way. --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]]  06:50, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * For every game I've played, I always liked gaining levels. However, if this does happen, I hope that they come up with a level decreaser when entering PvP areas. I used to use my PvE characters, though I have a PvP slot at times and now I hope I will keep this new PvP slot. I am sure other players use PvE character for PvP as well.
 * Also, it makes going back to other campaigns way to easy. DoA with level 100 would be a joke as will the lesser areas. And how would this level cap affect GW2? Assuming our characters will still be accessible with the new full game. &mdash; Gares 11:24, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I thought that I read that the original guild wars characters would not be playable in GW2? Then again, I've been reading so much, it could've easilly been speculation one way or another - I can't recall now where I read it (one of Gaile's posts, or just something on a forum - no idea now).  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:32, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Gaile said that the new level cap is for GW2, not GWEN; and that characters aren't transferrable to GW2 but there will be a sort of reward for having had achievements in GW1. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   11:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm trying to contain my anger for the hours I've spent playing GW. :P If money and items aren't transferrable at least, look for me in Ascalon ID 1 the day before GW2 comes out. I will be giving out around 2000k and around 400 different greens :( &mdash; Gares 11:38, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I am a little out of touch with the new news regarding both GW:EN and GW2. GW2 seems to be set 100 years in the future. I doubt Gares will be much of a warrior at the age of around 125. :p &mdash; Gares 11:53, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Items and titles will be transfored, according to PC Gamer. Money has not yet been confirmed


 * Very simular to Fallout 2 rants about not being able to use same character in a game set ~75 years from the first. How fun is it to hunt rats with mini guns and plasma rifles on a 93 year old character =D. Im sure there will be a limit (lets say 100) to where level will acctualy have a function in the game mechanics above that might be purly visual effect, sort of title. Biz 14:17, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It's the usual reaction to putting aside something that you've invested a lot of time into. If you think, players have to do it all the time. I know I lost thousands of hours when I stopped playing on a NWN persistant world. It seems like this has been a fast run through the GW1 series, but I guess a recorded 3500+ hours is far from a fast run. :P &mdash; Gares 15:05, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

From what I've read from gaile's posts and people's summaries of fromt he magazine. There is two type of PvP. One where every llv fights any lvl with your PvE chars (so the lvl 100's will just take out everhting so non-lvl 100s will prolyl not bother). The other will be like the current PvP every1 is max lvl. The PvP is meant to be more like WoW (i have not played WoW) but its like massive unorganised teams on massive battle grounds which people come in and out of an last days (like real battles). And when the battle ends (after days of bloodshed) it get reset and teams are set evenlyish by the game, or something. Jupsto 16:23, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Un-equalized PvP (ab style) in other games where levels range from 20s to 120s have minimum level requirement to enter the battle, while higher levels do have certain advantages they do not exactly sweep the floor whit mid levels due to sheer number of opponents. Biz 16:32, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

I wonder what is the relation between lvl and the usefulness of skills? I hope they don't balance it like blizzard with their each profession/race is better than another. What I'm trying to say is that they will be most likely be focusing on balancing race/proffesions rather than balancing skills. I dislike this quite a bit.

What I'm really interested is how do they plan to get money?? I mean they made a perfect subscribe to play environment. They will lose money if they have no monthly fees because servers will need support, paying etc... Only way i see is to overpay for the starting package or earn rl money on game money or upgrades (latter seems more eligible. Like a 5lvl boost for only 2.99$). Sith 10:48, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Apparently they're doing fine money-wise atm, so why wouldn't they for GW2? Don't see your point. --&#91;riVen] 11:00, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm obviously they are abandoning the campaigns because they don't have enough ideas for one race. Seeing each chapter would have to add new places/storyline/professions for each race that would be even harder. Ok lets say they have expansions:

1. You make each expansion seperate but each has a requirement of earlier game and/or expansion(s). Next worst after monthly subscription. 2. You make each expansion separate and no requirements of later games... this would be best scenario but the income isn't good enough unless you make some pretty cool addition (level caps higher/new proffesions/new battle types/new skills...)

On the other hand seeing this an open environment where players will spend many (more) hours/days/months playing. I mean it just like leaving 1000 dollars on a road. Someone will get the idea to pick it up... Dunno if they can hold on their corporate money sucking demons away from GW forever. Sith 14:19, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * They said that they will release expansions to GW2, that should make them more money from the game. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:49, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm how will expansions be implemented? If each expansion requires all previous expansions thats about as same as the monthly fee. Maybe if each expansion only requires one previous expansion it would be tollerable. Dunno this smells fishy but only time will tell. And the wait will be long. Sith 08:33, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Playeble?
Just wondering, playeble stands here for just seeing them as foe's or you can actually BECOME one? InfestedHydralisk  11:04, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Playable race means a race that can be played. They will be introduced as NPC (non-playable) races is GW:EN, so they will get familiar... and in GW2, yes, yo will be able to play them. --Deadly Lollipop 11:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Cool, very cool :D InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 12:40, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

requirments?
if ther are any infos about the system requirements, please tell me <.< if you dont have info, what do you think? will the reqs increase dramatically or just a bit? will you be able to gw2 on a gw1-able pc?
 * Gaile previously had said that today's mid-range PC's would be able to run GW2 just fine. She said those that have higher-end machines would have extra eye candy but those would not be min or recommended reqs. She also said that DX10 would be supported but not req'd. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 11:13, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

ah thx :D and what is a todays's mid range PC? sorry, i dont know much about pcs <.< >.>
 * My Sempron 1.74, 768MB, 128MB Radeon 9550 is able (but struggles) to play Stalker (Dx9 Game released in 2 days on the 23d) witch would be something to expect from GW2 as well. I would just quess that mid range pc in a year will at least 1gig ram, 256 MB Dx9 card and 3Gig Intel or equivalent AMD cpu. Not dual core just yet. Biz 13:54, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

I always thought my PC sux, but it seems to be not that bad then :D Best way is probably to wait for Beta. 19:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Tradeskills, please?
Seriously, if we're gonna have a huge/no level cap, there's gonna be people who want to do something else for a while, and not PVP. This holds true in WoW too, the game GW2 keeps getting compared to. If there's one thing that I've noticed through the campaigns, finding that base equipment you want with the right mods is mostly based on luck, or even more rarely, hoping for a green drop, if there's a good one. Combined with an Auction House, this will buff quality PVE play through the roof. I mean, 90% of my salvaged materials just sit in my Storage, useless. Why not put it to good use? BarGamer 12:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just becouse GW is steping away from formula that put them on the map does not mean they will make it just like WoW, auction houses are useless to say the least, good/popular upgrades will be flying off your hands if you put reasonable price on them in a populated district. You have guild mates, allaince and even heros to upgrade, if none can use/whant what you keep in the storage then its not worth keeping in first place. Biz
 * I agree. I bet a-net does also so no worries. Jupsto [[image:Feck_Off.jpg|19px]] 16:24, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Norns & Sylvari?
Neither of these are a mob or a piece of art in any of the existing manuals? --198.254.16.201 15:26, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * That's why they're new.. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 15:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ive seen high res concept of Norn on http://community.guildwarshelp.com/ posted by one of the admins so there is concepts of them floating on the net =D Biz 16:22, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They'll be in GW:EN so not completely new by the time GW2 rolls around. 132.203.83.38 08:10, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

PC Gamer
I added the same link somebody put on the Eye of the north talk page. Not sure its 100% legal. Who ever scanned the magazine breached copyright, but we are just linking people to the site where somebody has hosted the images. Anyhow, mods you decide. Jupsto 11:37, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Good Idea or Bad Idea
Do you think this game is a good idea destined for greatness or a bad idea that will screw anet over?--68.192.188.142 18:10, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Great. Jupsto 07:30, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Its GREAT IDEA! How many times I was depressed over not being able to get higher level or jump off the ledge in the Bloodstone fen and finish the mission before its started, or swim in the tar -.- no... not the tar. Biz 08:12, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Smells Bad. Oh an biz if you like jumping and sliding go get yourself a platform game (there you even have double or even triple and quadruple jump and super fun happy slide)... I hate bliping jumping and sliding. Now GW will look like it is infested with rabbits... Same as WoW... sigh. Curse you WoW and blind ANet copycats. Maybe Anet could make a spell that instantly kills persons in 1000mile radius that jump or are jumping. Then it would be playable.Sith 08:39, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Destined for greatness. 132.203.83.38 16:18, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

It sounds horribly bad. Almost everything I liked about Gw will be gone :( 69.70.105.93 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Hard to say, but it's one thing for sure: NOT Guild Wars. To me, everything that made Guild Wars a fun and playable game is going away. Now, that doesn't mean at all that this wont' be a wonderful game with hundreds of thousands of satisfied players, just that *I* won't be one of them. Still, there's a lot of time left before this comes out, and nobody really knows how the new system will work. I doubt I'll be interested in the least, however. Why is it fun if you can level up 100 times, if nothing ever changes when you do? --Crazytreeboy 00:33, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * What are they adding? I'm not interested in swimming or climbing trees (You can't fight very well while climbing anyway). I don't want to play as a Charr (Race implies inherent physical statistics).  And I REALLY, REALLY don't want to spend HUNDREDs of hours leveling up!
 * What are they taking away? I LOVED the hundreds of skills. Always being able to sit and ponder new ways to do things, looking forward to new additions and skill balances and imagining new build.  Yes, I LOVED reading skill descriptions over jumping or climbing. I can climb a tree anytime I want, but I sure as hell can't throw lightning bolts. And furthermore, persistent worlds are not interesting to me at all.  I really don't want to be forced to deal with all the fools you can encounter in GW.  When I enter an instance, I can control who I play with and around.  I just hope they can't ever touch my minimap.

Second System Syndrome
Is anyone familiar with the term SSS? (you could also expand it as Spiteful Spirit on Software:) It's basically this: you develop a system, learn much in the process (by doing lots of mistakes, of course) and you leave out much of what you wanted to put in. Sometime later, you decide to create a new version of that system for some reason. Right before you start, you decide that the Second System will be bigger, better, and badder (ass-wise) from its predecessor. And that's when the SSS hits you.

It's an awful thing to behold. You over-engineer everything, you put in more of everything, you over-complicate everything and the resulting second system which looked so badass on paper is a humongous mess of bugs, complexity, rigidity and is dwarfed by the first system only in terms of usability and functionality.

Unbidden, it popped to my mind while reading through the gamer mag's article. Dunno vhy.--Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 18:39, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

I have hard time imagining how they will be struck down by "SSS" from reworking "same" (GW1) engine and adding few new features. Yes there will be few things to do and that have to be done right but yet again they have over a year to make it to beta and about half a year after that to make a partialy working game =D But I do see how SSS is working its wonders on most early (broken)windows releases =) and just why they need 10 service packs to work. Biz 02:17, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I hope they'll avoid it. Although it doesn't say over-engineering or second system syndrome, the May 2007 PC Gamer article makes it sound like the original Guild Wars was suffering from SSS (which is plausible, since ANet's founders have worked on other games before, and Guild Wars did have a longer than estimated developement time). The article also talks about how they'll trim down the profession count and make the GW2 professions more self-sufficient. -- Gordon Ecker 03:05, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Self sufficient definately seems like the way they are going with dropping heroes and only having one companion available to you at a time. I have to ask, however, where did you find that information? Oh and I highly doubt ANet will fall into that hole, they're professionals right? ;) 132.203.83.38 09:03, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The implied SSS is on page 24, where they're talking about battling against complexity, and how all the standalone campaigns were making making Guild Wars convoluted from a design perspective. Honestly, it sounds like the SSS was relatively mild, with the potential to get worse with more campaigns. Page 34 says that the professions and content will be designed to work with solo play, but will be able to scale up for parties. -- Gordon Ecker 21:12, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Disappointing.
Complete disappointment. Series started out great, PvP-oriented, easy to get into the action. However with each new chapter the game has become more PvE-based. From what anet has said about GW:2 and even GW:EN the gameplay is even more pve-based. Since the release of the first chapter they've added what, one more kind of PvP? Rolling Arenas. The playerbase is becoming even more polluted with children who have no job and can't afford WoW, so instead turn to Guild Wars for PvE. Velouria 18:47, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Uhh... Alliance Battles? Aspenwood? Jade Quarry? 132.203.83.38 18:50, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My bad. I was so blown-away by those great, skill-based PvP systems that I forgot to even mention them. Velouria 18:53, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * HA, GvG, TA, RA, HB, AB etc etc etc InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 18:54, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the simply wonderful input. You're obviously the king of selective reading

I hope they don't add any more RaO, dervishes, searing flames, assassins etc in future releases... &mdash; Skuld 18:58, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * LOL SKULD WHY U BAN M3 GEEK WIKI!>?


 * I want Charr BoA Assassins :D InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 19:00, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I know that people want more PvP oriented serious players, but you gotta realize that some people, like me for example, play this game not so very often, and for not-so-serious fun. I don't do PvP, and I don't interfere in people's guilds when they do PvP. So, the PvE part is actually the only thing I do, and as much as everyone (I've talked to) likes to yell at me, I don't care. PvE IS a reason to play a RPG game - and since GW is far less MMO then other games (instancing of Explorable areas, 8 party limit in most parts) I think that this game is just as PvE oriented as it is PvP (if not more so). So, in all frankness, I wouldn't mind seeing GW2 with richer PvE elements, and more in-depth story and quests. That doesn't mean I dont want to see PvP expanded. So next time you want to tell me how this game is becoming "polluted with children who have no job and can't afford WoW" - consider this: Maybe its suppose to be that way. This isnt your game, and ANet does what they think is best for the public - and frankly, I'd like to see more PvE with more helpful people in PvE, and not your every-day "I'm too cool to help you n00b" jackasses. (no offence intended to anyone here). -Milcho 00:26, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Let me rephrase my earlier whining. It's not like I hate PvE-type games.  Hell, I've played RPGs for 10 years.  I just think this game started out with the main selling point being skill-based PvP.  Anet started with weakish PvE in Prophecies, but I still liked it.  However their forays into more 'in-depth' PvE in Factions and Nightfall have left a sour taste in my mouth.  Velouria 02:08, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

I agree...I don't want another WoW game. Level caps make things more skill based, not how long you play on that char for. With no level cap how are you supposed to try different professions? GW is already a great game, learn from Insomniac Games, if it aint broke, dont fix it! New races will be interesting, again, stepping into the WoW plane. I play aout 2 hours a day on my ele, and hes still not where I want him. Ive played for about a year now and have 3 other lv 20 almost done their campaigns. I hate it when my guildies or anyone says they are bored...try new profession, do PvP, or do PvE if you only do PvP. Its like they are 2 different games already. There is just so much to do, I cant even imagine no level cap and 4 new races and possibly new professions and more skills more builds, more missions, farming and more noobs.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   04:18, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * New race thing just makes me sadder. If I wanted that I would play (generic MMO).  I liked Guild Wars for what it was.  It just seems like they're pushing a ton of new stuff that nobody is really ready for in this new one.  Velouria 04:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Nearly every online game has playable humans. How many online games have playable hyena-goat-minotaurs, half-plants or giant dwarves? As for the Asuras, they sound a lot like Warcraft's goblins, but you can't really call that ripping off World of Warcraft because WoW doesn't even have playable goblins. -- Gordon Ecker 06:27, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Who the hell want to play with asuras? And WoW had gnomes which were somewhat like asurans. IMO Asurans are a crossbred of aliens and Dobi from HP. I really dislike the whole race addition. If the races are a bit different they will most likely have different skills. I mean they didn't make races so we can choose between different fur or skin color. And if each race doesn't have all proffesion (I mean I fail to see Charr as dervishes and paragons; Lol Charr dervish with a hood) it means they will most likely balance proffesions/races instead of skills which will ruin the concept. I mean some proffesions wont be able to kill of other proffesions.
 * That's exactly it; just the idea of any race being different (stat-wise) than another goes against Guild Wars' original aim for balanced PvP. Velouria 13:22, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Gaile gray confirmed that there will be no montly fees for Gw eye of the north and gw2

check gwonline.net on forums ;)


 * Thanks for clearing up what nobody asked about. Either wrong section or you're a dumbass.  Velouria 14:32, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * GW:NPA. Watch your tone. --Dirigible 15:47, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Look out! Bans!  Velouria 15:49, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

"Characters from the original Guild Wars campaign will not be migrated to play in Guild Wars 2."-Now whats the point in playing GW 1 then? Did I spend 746 hours for nothing? I mean why cant they be transfered? The new level cap will be like 100, 20 levels is nothing! Thats frickin bull!--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   15:58, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You spent 746 hours playing a game to have fun? Did you consider not buying guild wars because you had spent time on a different game before? Lord of all tyria 16:06, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Why would they be? It's a new game.  Try thinking before you complain.
 * Try considering how your comments will be interpreted by others before you post. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:13, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * lulz cupidioooo Velouria 16:42, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Silly people. :P 132.203.83.38 19:16, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Do you work for 746 hours to not get paid? Even though you do "have fun" on GW, its still work, farming, doing missions over and over to get to a place. Or think of it if you have a job, you can make it fun if you want to. Either way thats 746 hours that have the chance to be moved on. Im angered because I see the move as something so easy, its as if ANet is turning their backs on their players. I think a "time portal" quest could be an option where you unlock the gate of time or something which can bring your old chars unto the game, or atleast just for PvP.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime    20:00, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Difference of opinion I guess. I think if you're treating it like work you should play less. Velouria 20:47, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Wouldn't it be possible for anet to make it so that you are playing a decendant of your character who has the same stats(funny idea but may work)   (dsnesnintendo)


 * Character transfer probably can't be done due to the differences in professions and skills. As for geting a payoff in GW2 for your efforts in GW1 and playing the descendants of existing characters, it will be possible to get inheritance via the Hall of Monuments, and Gaile Grey has mentioned name reservations for players with GW1. -- Gordon Ecker 20:36, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Unlocking the old characters as hero would really pwn. Madjura


 * That would be cool. But if not they could do many other things with them. Maybe you could choose one of your GW1 characters to be one of your new character's companion. Or possible encounter "ghostly" versions of your old characters along the storyline (since they would be dead by then). Or maybe even just allow an account to make a custom miniature of one of their old characters lol. --SLeeVe 14:06, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Professions and skills make a big difference....hmmm didint know that. But I hope it isnt all final yet....isnt this thing due in 2-3 years? They still have lots of time. Im still hoping for more transferability. Why would they redue all of the skills and professions?--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   21:59, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Unless this info turns out to be massively wrong...wow. I just don't understand. Not only do I not want to play the game GW2 is sounding like, but no character transference kinda saps my will to keep playing GW as it is. What's the point in nurturing your characters when you'll have to throw them all in the trash a year or two from now? I love GW as it is, and I don't want to see this happen. Arshay Duskbrow 23:32, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * It's Guild Wars 2. It's a new game, not a new campaign. I don't know what everyone seems to be basing their expectations on, but I'm not aware of any online games that allows you to transfer characters to their sequels. The Hall of Monuments, which we should have more information on before Eye of the North comes out, will allow you to carry over some achievements, and I believe this inheritance feature is unique to Guild Wars. -- Gordon Ecker 00:20, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Runescape was one of them. Id like to see something like that. Ive started a small petitiion too. Here. They certainly arent, "demands" Im sure Anet will pump out a great game yet again. But untill we get more information, the people who have signed it suggest a little more character incentive for playing previously.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   01:36, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Ok I cant post here anymore, my computer is censoring with ####, sorry guys again. Ill come back when I can turn it off. Terrible sorry.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime  01:45, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

It's a good thing I refrained from commenting on the first post of this section. LoL to Velouria. 132.203.83.38 08:34, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Gross. I definitely dont want a game like WoW. And not being able to transfer your GW1 characters or items over is a huge disappointment, especially to those of us who love to track down rare skins and items. If we could atleast still transfer our items over :-/ --SLeeVe 11:33, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

I agree with you SLeeVe, I don't want a WOW clone. If I wanted WOW, i'd ahve bought WOW. I honestly don't see why anet is doing this. Good PvP, AI Henchmen low level cap, bi-anuel expansions, instance-based play were all the unique inovation that put GW on the map. This game seems to be the exact oposite fo that. Dosn't logic dictate taht if you make a game that has the opposite of what made you money...you won't make money? Sure, GW ad some problems (ie bad chat and trade functions and no jumping) but this si something that could have easily be remidied in a new chapter or even expansion (I am actully looking fword to EOTN).--TheDrifter 21:38, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Sorry I don't want to attack but how is jumping gonna improve anything? I mean everbody will be jumping like mad rabbits and the main reason will be cause "U stupid n3wb jump makes go faster" Sith 12:49, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

PvE Mesmers
PLEASE GIVE ME PVE MESMERS!!!! --Sig mA   11:34, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ye, give us PvE Mesmers (if Mesmers still exist)!- Leader Rat [[Image:Rat.jpg|19px]] 14:08, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

The names of races sound familiar
Have GW just taken and slightly adapted names for the new races? Eg Asura from Asurans (Stargate), the Sylvari look naturey ranger type things and their names sound like the Sylvan Elves of Tokein. The Norn name rings a bell for me too, although i cant be sure of what...
 * Uhh... Trivia? Look around, so many things oon GW has some trivia. 'comes from blablabla' etc. No big deal. --[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 15:25, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well... the names are all references from one thing or another. Some are obvious, like Charr is just a slight adaption of  the word Char which is a reference to Fire, and Sylvari is a reference to the word Sylvan which means pertaining to the woods.  The others are references to mythology, Asura is a reference to Hindu Mythology and Norn is a reference to Norse Mythology.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 03:31, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just look up Asura or Norn on Wikipedia. The others are obvious.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 03:33, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

GW Vs. WoW
Who agrees that GW is going head to head and try to kick WoW off of the #1 MMORPG.Ummm... This kinda sounds like GW wants to compete with WoW's Famous PvE world. As a respectable player of both WoW and GW, WoW seemingly has the advantage with there wide variations of PvE areas and the abilities of exploration of the PvE WoW world. While GW has the hand of really balanced PvP, which I would guess would was the unique advantage of PvP format and Graphics. Sure, like the next GW player, I really wouldn't mind if we have a couple PvE upgrades (such as in depth PvE exploration, but not like WoW), of course... get rid of the joke called "Storage" and make it bigger. But a way bigger lvl. cap would just kill the GW PvP world (probably a lvl cap of 30 or 40 and PvP has to be change if you trying to intruduce, which made the game the way it is today.

'''I HOPE PEOPLE FROM A-NET IS READING THIS!!! DON'T LET GW TURN INTO WoW!!!''' Basically if GW has PvE>PvP, the game would be just like WoW and players of GW (i guess if you are reading this you are a devoted GW player) really would wan't another WoW in the world (as stated many times above). -No offence to people that really love the PvE part of GW and there wanting of more in depth construct of PvE oriented game (High lvl caps. and the ability the have that special in-depth exploration of PvE that goes with the beatiful graphics presented in the game.)(but is the high lvl. cap to show the grind of the player and "ranking" of the character, and i think thats why GW has in-game Titles are for?)
 * Either way, (if they keep up "We would never apply Monthly Fees to Guild Wars") I'll still play.

-EnterNameHere ~RIPRIP~


 * Not to fuel Anti WoW crusade but still ANet folks mentioned something like: (my interperation) We are making game whit no monthly fees not to beat WoW but to make a simple, enjoyable game. Biz 06:57, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Not another retarded GW vs WoW discussion. Did you even think out your argument? A PvE MMO does not equal WoW. EQ does not equal WoW. Lineage does not equal WoW. AO does not equal WoW. Camelot does not equal WoW. Just forget it. Sirocco 07:20, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * And a PvE vs PvP discussion! 2 flame wars for the price of one! /sigh -- Gordon Ecker 08:04, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * /lockthread imo. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 08:05, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

What of skills?
Will skills remain in a neat 8 skill in a bar as they are now or will they expand to something enormous, that consumes most of the screen? Also what way are they connected to lvl increase and finally will some skills be restricted to PvE or PvP only. Sith 14:15, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Dont think they will make it "wow style". So the 8(9) skills will be most likly it. Maybe you can replace skills in some areas whit out having to go to a town, like inside a friendly camp, where you cant missuse the skills or gain unfair adwantage from it. But there is likly to be major limitations. Biz 15:05, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

But what was all that talk about GvG like match that has all skills? I mean don't get me wrong I would like to expand skillbar by one-two places but not by a thousand. Sith 10:31, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Why new playable races, not extant ones?
I just don't understand what Anet is thinking. Why introduce new races when there are plenty of races already extant in Guild Wars that would be far more interesting to play. Tengu? Centaurs? Djinni? Dwarves? Redeemed Margonites? And most of all, the Forgotten? Who wouldn't love to play a Forgotten character? Heck, even remnants of the Mursaat or Seers...instead we get the generic-small-cute-race, the generic-muscular-rough n' tough-race, the generic-arboreal-elflike-race, and Charr, which is the only extant Guild Wars race of the lot. I hope Anet will reconsider these cookie-cutter races and instead draw from the far more interesting peoples already existing in Guild Wars lore. Arshay Duskbrow 17:46, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * My advice is to wait before jumping to conclusions... Notice that the PCGamer article specifically mentions that there may be more races than this, and that ANet was refusing to give their exact number. You never know, we might get to play as Devourers after all. --Dirigible 17:54, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Forgotten are next to extinction. Margonites should be considered an elite race like Mursaat. Djinn don't really qualify as a race that could be playable. Besides there are other races unannounced. Maybe the 3 new ones were released to judge people's reactions to them, and of course the Charr are an old favourite. Also those 4 races are supposed to be featured prominently in GW:EN, not everything is about GW2. Sirocco 19:30, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Forgotten were next to extinction, dialogue in Throne of Secrets indicates that they should make it. Still, they are the declining elder race of Guild Wars, and, with the exception of elves, declining elder races generally aren't playable in RPGs. Anatomical problems would also get in the way of playable Centaurs, Djinn and Forgotten. -- Gordon Ecker 20:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Maybe you can have a Centaur "companion". You can ride him into battle! I don't think they'd agree with the idea though. Sirocco 20:42, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * You guys seem to be forgetting Zhed Shadowhoof, who never let any "anatomical problems" slow him down. Arshay Duskbrow 21:46, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The reason you can't play as Tengu is because they are so ridiculously overpowered in all parts of PvE. They totally pwn henchmen just about everywhere. Why did ANet make L19 Tengu in places where Hench are only L15? Cuz they're leet, that's why. Not fit for humans to play as, hmmph. And don't forget the damnable Tengu Seer, with Cry of Frustration and Conjure Phantasm in Kryta! Brr... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:04, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Because he only has 3 armor sets. If they add Centaurs as a playable race, they'll need separate lower body armor art for every profession, and Forgotten would need separate armor art for everything except the head and arms. As for Tengu, they're humanoid enough to work. -- Gordon Ecker 22:17, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Couldn't they just wear Arcanist Wrappings, Cursebearer Wrappings, Illusionist Wrappings, Losaru Bladehand Armor, etc...? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:19, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Talon is no more powerful than any other henchman. Also, just because they are powerful in GW has no bearing on how effective they'll be in another game. You don't have a strong argument. Sirocco 22:20, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I could see some kind of half-Djinn (sort of like D&D's Genasi) that get flaming wings and shiny skin, but are still fleshy creatures, and hover close enough to the ground to trigger traps, as a playable race. -- Gordon Ecker 23:55, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

(Resetting indent) Gordon, your "making armor for different races would be too much trouble" doesn't hold water, because Anet is already giving themselves that trouble with the introduction of multiple races. Although we don't yet know if all professions will be open to all races and such, do you really think that a Human Warrior is going to have the same armor as a Norn Warrior, or a Charr Warrior, and so forth? They're already going to have to have multiple armors, so if they can do it for humanoids, they can do it just as easily for non-humanoids. Arshay Duskbrow 00:48, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * it's very possible that Anet will scrap the races thing all together. it would play havok with Edge of Extinction type skills, althou anet has been laying off those after prophecies. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:50, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Don't understand what ANet is thinking? I seem to recall reading an interview with some of the developers soon after Guild Wars was released, explaining their class choices. The core classes were what they felt were the basic archetypes for any RPG classes. Anyways, it seems to me that they are doing something similar with the races this time around.  You have all the basic archetypes, giving them plenty of room for expansion (Though I must admit both Charr and Norns seem fit mainly for Warriors...).  When I think of Tengu or Centaurs, for example, it seems like a grey area--they could be anything. --Emelend 11:59, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree the Norn look like a very physically imposing race. However the Charr have shown that they are not just brutes as the Norn currently appear. The charr came in every core profession. So they are indeed versatile, while looking like very fierce creatures who can probably rip you in half. Tengu are also very versatile, they were also able to be any core profession and ritualists in Factions as well. Sirocco 15:05, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * There's also Tengu assassins. Although the only Tengu elementalist is a boss. As for armor, they can make it "stretchy" like the armor in World of Warcraft or Neverwinter Nights. Making armor that fits both a human and a Charr doesn't require much more work than making armor that fits both a gnome and a Tauren. The hardest part would be bear-form Norns, which shouldn't take much more work than Charr, and could be avoided by giving bear-form Norns the same generic bear-form outfits. -- Gordon Ecker 16:37, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * @Sirocco, I was being sarcastic about the Tengu if you couldn't tell. Talon is a pathetic Henchman unfortunately. But enemy Tengu throughout PvE are the bane of PUGs and even organized groups, because of their often-huge numbers, well-balanced profession choices, good skillchoices, and unusually good AI. PvE monsters may not have any bearing on future playable race strengths, that's true, but then again I think people would be very upset if Mantids were made a playable race and they pwn'd everything. How well a monster fights in PvE should have some relation on how comparatively strong they are when playable by humans. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I think it's fairly obvious I couldn't tell. ^_^ Sirocco 22:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * a though just occured, what if the races are the new secondary professions. a charr warrior would have charr skills and warriors skills, charr attributes and warrior attributes, etc.. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:19, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't think that sounds like a good system. I think it will be more like the race skills will replace the primary attribute. The secondary profession thing is too good to scrap. Sirocco 07:43, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Half-breeds perhaps? "Greetings young Norn/Charr warrior"? Also charr sound more like firey warriors.


 * Hello Mr Half Asura-Charr, my you're looking hideous today! Sirocco 14:15, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I remember a discussion I was having on ogaming back when I contributed there, and someone suggested an idea which I think might work well. They said that humans would have access to a Primary and Secondary profession, and the new races would have access to a single profession and then a "racial" profession which offered its own set of attributes and skills.  The thread I am talking about started well before GW2, actually before Factions, but, I think it would be an interesting idea.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 15:35, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

More gear based?
Does anyone think this will be more gear based than GW? -- LightEcho


 * What kind of "gear" are you talking about - This? Or Gear like equipment? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:02, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Most likely gear as in equippable items. WoW has, I estimate from memory, some 20 equippable item slots, with hundreds of one use items that confer temporary benefits.  Indeed, they have as many of *those* types of items as we have skills!  Guild wars equipment was simple even compared to old games such as Diablo 1. Equipment statistics (Edit:)are simple, easily maxed, and would have a maximum of 4, often categorized effects. (Damage, prefix, inherent, suffix) --Crazytreeboy 20:45, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I hope they allow you to merge non-max upgrade components into max upgrade components of the same type, like you can do with gems in Diablo 2 or enhancements in City of Heroes. Another interesting option would be to give items a large number of upgrade slots, but make the individual upgrade bonuses smaller and non-variable, allowing more granularity (for example, a sword might have 5 prefix-equivalent slots, 5 suffix-equivalent slots and 5 inscription-equivalent slots, with each individual GW2 upgrade component counting as roughly one fifth of a max GW1 upgrade component, allowing more mixing and matching of bonuses and more variety in equipment, while making perfect equipment easier to obtain). -- Gordon Ecker 21:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
 * If I understand you correctly you want to have upgrades divided in two 5 slots each, so to get 5 energy sword you would need 5x 1 energy insignias ? =D that is surly an improvement over simple system we have now. Merging sounds fun not only will it dump the prices on max upgrades but also give everyone perfect weapons. Biz 01:06, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol. Max Defensive Fiery Dragon Sword of Defense and Tenguslaying ~ 15^90, health +6, energy +1, armor +1, armor vs. physical damage +2, damage vs. tengu +3%. Real fun to put in trade chat and sell, but its a nice concept. Nhnowell 14:36, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

I just had a very scary thought....
Female Charr. O___O;;;; Arshay Duskbrow 15:21, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Ieuw hairy girls! --[[User:Sigm@|<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA

]] 15:23, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They really need to shave there legs >_> and everything else InfestedHydralisk  [[image:Shadow_Prison.jpg|19px]] 15:50, 29 March 2007 (CDT)