User talk:OBloodyHell11691

Heya, welcome to GuildWiki :) Could you sign your comments by either typing ~ or by pressing the Magical Sign Button on the toolbar? That way it's obvious you placed the comment, and you get a free timestamp! Isn't that awesome? ---  -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  17:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

"What's your #$%#$ problem?" (DOH!!!)
Re: Your edit summary here - DeathByAnArrow didn't do anything except fix the capitalization of a quest name. I checked through the history, and you had not edited the number of foes in any of your previous edits. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 16:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was a combination of odd timing and a DOH!. I got distracted by also updating the vanquishing page with the same info, hadn't yet saved it, and then saw that someone had updated it just a few moments before (not realizing I hadn't saved the update. I thought it had been reverted for some rude reason (tired, it was my third vanq in a row, and the Awakened near the Lair outpost in that area gave me absolute fits). Is it possible to alter that note after it's been saved? I would have fixed it to reflect the realization. "Mea Culpa". OBloodyHell 16:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)OBloodyhell
 * No, unfortunately, edit summaries can't be modified. I've had plenty of situations myself where I'd like to change them, mostly typos that I notice right after I click Save.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ain't that always the way? Your proofreader needs a proofreader. :oP OBloodyHell 16:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

GW:1RV
GW:1RV basically don't revert a revert without discussing it first. You've done this a few times now, just wanted to let you know there's a policy for that Viruzzz 23:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

1) I quote:  Exception: A first revert without any explanation conflicts with GuildWiki:Assume good faith, is not protected by this policy, and may be fair game for re-reversion. "I don't agree" is sufficient "explanation"? That's interesting... "information". I'll remember that S:-/  So far that's been the jist of many of these "explanations". Dr. Ishmael is the only one actually bothering to specify more about his reasoning. 2) In most, if not each case, the "reversion" has been adjusted to deal with the complaint as well. The reversions were merely used to re-base back to what I had done, rather than having to re-enter it, which is pointlessly tedious and just stupid.
 * The main unwritten rules of guildwiki are as follows:
 * Don't talk about Fight Club.
 * Standardization trumps all.
 * Just because anyone agrees or disagress, doesn't mean its right.
 * It's better to go to the talk page of an unliked revision after you have been reverted then start a revert war.
 * Ooh, and 34 applies EVEN HERE.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]îğá†ħŕášħ 04:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You fail to address my point in the least -- I quote an "explanation", since you force me to dig one out: ''I don't think it's relevant. if so, it'd go in the notes section''. That's not explanation, that's naysaying. Clearly, *I* thought it was relevant, or I would not have wasted my time adding it in the first place. So who died and made him god of this entry? And again, I didn't just "revert", I ALTERED the revert after I made it to address his point. See also the below, which also makes the case for what I'd done in the first place. Ishmael left a fair comment, not a mindless "Nuhhh-uhhhh. I don't like it" naysay. So the "explanation" was not sufficient to justify a revert in the first place. --OBloodyHell 04:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not up to you to decide. However, I'd rather keep a contributing member than nitpick about enforcing some stupid policy. First rule of anything on GuildWiki is that Content Trumps All . Screw policy technicalities. Policy exists to help the wiki, not hinder it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:41, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not explanation, that's naysaying. Good observation. That's what a "revert war" is, continued naysaying with technical means. The way to outmanouever the naysayer is to let his version stand, support your own version on the talkpage, and if the naysayer can't adress that there or at least come up with an argument of his own, you claim consensus by default, and a day later you revert to what is "clearly" wiki consensus. And that actually trumps 1:RV - anybody who tries to revert away from demonstrated (via the article's talkpage) consensus becomes the odd one out.
 * It feels like it shouldn't be that way - if you are right, and clearly you are when there's no valid counterargument, why shouldn't your edit be allowed to stand? The point is that being right in certain ways upsets the wiki, so the smart people need to figure out ways to be right that don't. Continued reverts are not a smart way to be right.
 * Of course, it could be that it turns out that the "naysayer" actually can explain when the issue is raised on the talkpage, and in that case your course of action caused the debate to start that should've been happening all along. It means you helped him, in a way; but if you are averse to helping people you don't even know, what are you doing editing a wiki? ;-)
 * And, and lest I forget, welcome back to the wiki! I'm happy to have you here! --◄mendel► 08:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The reason why information that some players may find relevant is sometimes removed is that if everyone adds his pet tip and no one ever removes them, pages can become an incomprehensible mess. See, for example:
 * Dunes of Despair
 * Thunderhead Keep
 * Raisu Palace
 * Imperial Sanctum
 * Jennur's Horde
 * Abaddon's Gate
 * Having too much information on a page, some of which is dubious or only marginally useful, makes it difficult to find the information that a player needs. In all of those cases, the page was greatly improved with the next edit, which greatly shortened the page.
 * Don't take it personally if your edit gets reverted. Quizzical 05:34, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) By your own rules, the reversion should be explained. "Null" explanations: "I don't see this as useful" are rude and assinine. If you can't come up with a better explanation, then you should leave it alone and take it to the talk page, as alluded to above

2) One can certainly simplify without removing useful details. Not all contributors are of equal skill in writing. I don't care if someone edits something, although I am a fairly good writer, because someone else may have a better way of saying it than I do. 3) I'll grant you that every niggling little detail about an area can be less useful. Noting anything unique about an area seems fully within the bounds of the purpose of the wiki. 4) Techniques for specific combat may fit better on the talk page, I grant -- and you might consider adding an additional page specifically for that sort of discussion, as opposed to discussions about general content. If someone is entering things which fit more on the talk page, rather than a simple "revert", one should consider moving the "offending" portion onto the talk page, with a note "detail fits better on the talk page... content moved". It's far less rude, explains why the matter is believed not to fit, and doesn't throw away the information provided completely. Even if you disagree, clearly someone thought it relevant enough to add it. Unless their description is clearly wrong (in which case a response is likely to follow), someone else may find merit in it. --It's all a matter of recognizing and appreciating that people are making an effort of their own to contribute something. Some of the reversions I've seen happen around here have been rude in the extreme and completely unjustified where they were supposed to be "explained politely" at best, and have definitely been inarguably inexcusable. Some of the main operators around here, from what I've seen, are busy throwing their weight around as "tin plated dictators with delusions of godhood" rather than being productive. --OBloodyHell 21:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If someone is entering things which fit more on the talk page, rather than a simple "revert", one should consider moving the "offending" portion onto the talk page &mdash; I've been preaching that for ages, mostly in the context of "Trivia". -- ◄mendel► 22:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Arneh the Vigorous
99% of bosses are upgraded versions of a standard monster. We don't note this on boss pages because it's obvious based on the boss's species and profession exactly which normal monster they are upgraded from. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 00:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

It should, it's not obvious by any means. You presume information which is obvious to highly experienced users ("all awakened cavaliers are paragons, and only awakened paragons are cavaliers") but not necessarily to less experienced ones Further, it may be the case often (perhaps even especially so in The Desolation), but it's not always the case. It makes a lot more sense, if there's no difference at all in the spells/skills, only in the inherent "boss" qualities, to just say it's an "uber-xxx". Then it's clear exactly what the problems with it are, and there are no special considerations due to added spells or even something completely different -- ''. Arneh is a particularly obvious example, since cavaliers, along with accolytes, are one of the main problems in dealing with Awakened mobs. Making the statement that he's an "Awakened Cavalier" boss means you know all you need to know what the main problems with him are (the rez, in particular) without bothering to compare to see if he has any other skills added or swapped out. Noting that Arneh is a cavalier says that, unlike most Awakened groups, you want to take him out BEFORE the accolytes, since the accolytes are only touch-rez and less likely to cast that. Yes, you can notice that by looking at the skills, but the point is, you hae to look over the skills, think about what they do, then realize that it's exactly a flinkin' cavalier. Why not just SAY "Uber-Cavalier" instead of causing someone to figure it out, every time anyone looks at the page for the first time in a while? http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Island_Guardian http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Soulwhisper%2C_Elder_Guardian http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rockhide_Dragon http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wavecrest_Stonebreak These two pairs are an example, though visually similar, Soulwhisper and Wavecrest do NOT match the criteria I'm talking about. They aren't an "Island Guardian boss" or a "Rockhide Dragon boss", because the skills are completely different. If they are exactly the same, that's a piece of subtle information worth noting. Which is my entire point--OBloodyHell 04:20, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I was gonna write a scathing message repeatedly breaking NPA but Entropy told me to stop doing that. So, basically sans npa's:  The mentally retarded don't play GW.  Have a nice day.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  04:32, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * So what are you doing here, asshole? Why are you paying attention to a Wiki for a game you can't play? --OBloodyHell 04:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Calm the fuck down. You don't know me, I don't know you. Stop raging. --Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 04:39, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe Giga's point was that if people are too stupid to figure out that "all awakened cavaliers are paragons, and only awakened paragons are cavaliers", they may as well /uninstall. Of course it was ambiguously worded and started NPAs, so it could probably have been worded better.
 * In any case, I think it would be fine to note "Foo is a boss" for those small % of monsters which are completely different than their normal monsters. The ones which you link above are prime candidates. I think that for the other monsters, unless they are significantly dangerous for some reason ("uber"), it doesn't make sense to list it. For example, low-level Charr bosses in Prophecies - it's not much use to say, "Felinam the Whip is an upgraded Charr ranger boss", since he is still failsauce, even at that point in the game. Also, "boss" in itself ought to covey a sense of additional power compared to other monsters.
 * That being said, I also do not see why the style guide could not be changed to include this data. It certainly doesn't hurt anything; sure, maybe it is redundant/obvious on most bosses, but if nothing else it provides an easy access link to the "normal" version of the monster, so if you are totally unfamiliar with them you can maybe learn how to fight them for the first time. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Entropy's edit summary is really the main point here: she said, "never be afraid to question the merit of standard practice/tradition", the key word being "question". If you think something should be done differently from how it currently is, but you get reverted when you try to change it, then instead of starting revert wars you need to start a discussion about it.  Take it to the talkpages and see if you can convince people that your idea has merit.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, oughtn't this be moved to the relevant style/guide/boss/whatever talkpage? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Entropy's edit summary is really the main point here The second summary you can make a case for. The first one was mere naysaying. And that's my point -- your own guide suggests that the edit summary should be more than "that's useless" which was her excuse for the revert. And for rejecting that -- *once* -- AND actually addressing the issue made on top of that by rewording -- which is fully within the consistency of the guidelines, I was yelled at. Capisce?<br \>

And as far as moving it elsewhere, feel free. By all means, please point the way to whatever location you consider more topical.<br \> My general point here is that a lot of the people writing these things don't have a noob vp (and can't, for obvious reasons), but most of the stuff here is the greatest use to a noob. There's a lot of subtle elements to the gameplay which aren't obvious on the surface, like the fact that all the monsters are, in many cases, just variations on the basic professions, and that the bosses are often upgraded versions of a specific monster with no new spells. For the enormous cost of about four words, something to the effect of "xxx is a boss version of monster yyy", you call attention to that to those without experience, and even make an astoundingly quick summary for the experienced user going into an area they've not done in a while. It also calls attention to the boss not having any particular unique spells or attributes other than just those associated with being a "boss" in that area, without you needing to actually compare pages. If they have any spells not associated with monster yyy then they aren't just a "boss monster yyy", they're more.


 * re: "calm down"... LOL. If I was raging at you, you'd know it. Throwing your own rude, pointlessly insulting snark back in your face is hardly raging.<br \>

All the above -- OBloodyHell 10:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Contrary to Gigathrash's assertion, it's not necessarily true that the mentally retarded don't play Guild Wars. I would concur that they don't come to this wiki for information on how to play Guild Wars, however.  :D  Quizzical 05:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * --<br\>1) I've played enough AB to guarantee you that the mentally retarded DO, indeed, play GW. Chances are, you have, too.<br\>2) I'm sure they come here. They don't always learn more than the most basic rudiments (like pre-made builds and vaguely how to push the buttons to run them), but they come here. That's almost certainly how they got the build they're playing, because they sure didn't come up with it. <br \><br \> So QED, Ipso Facto, and "Bob's your uncle"....;oP --OBloodyHell 16:39, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * To the contrary, they go to the official wiki. They can't find this one.  Quizzical 19:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * MMMMmmmmm, where are they getting the builds from? Sure, some may be getting them from friends, but at some point someone probably had to go to the PVX subwiki... :oP --OBloodyHell 20:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Which is unrelated to this wiki. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You link to it. And it says, I quote: "A GuildWiki fork containing only build articles." The impression is given that it's related to this wiki, even if it's a completely different set of people and all that. And all that is largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. :-9

Personal attacks
Hi. Personal attacks like this one are not acceptable. If you continue to personally attack people- especially since I am not the first to notice- you will be blocked.

And we don't keep the information you listen on the Twin Serpent Lakes area because it's true for every area with a Statue of Melandru, and the information on what the bonus does is already listed here. Thanks,  Shadowcrest  21:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC) -- > (stuff like that doesnt need to be noted) 1) See above issues with regards to your own standards. DO THEY APPLY OR NOT???? From what I can see, so far, I've been RUDELY reverted with nothing but a NAYSAY --- TWICE NOW. ARE you BOTHERING to take issue with THAT person's actions and failure to follow  YOUR OWN STANDARDS???? <br \> 2) Well, let's see, since I've been playing the game for a while now, and ***I*** just noted it, DO YA THINK -- just maybe -- that it's not quite visible enough on these pages and that it might be noted in the areas which they appear?<br \> 3) Apparently, you presume that EVERYONE even KNOWs about kneeling before the shrines, which isn't an inherently obvious action, and the only reason I thought of doing it there was because of the behavior in other campaigns.<br \> In short:<br \> a) You fail to call attention to something which someone trying to learn about the game ought to be aware of, and which is FAR from visible. Unless someone specifically looks up shrines (which there isn't any particular reason to do on the surface) there is virtually NO WAY they will learn about kneeeling at shrines and statues. There simply isn't ANY reason to even think about doing it.<br \> b) You've given me crap --- MULTIPLE TIMES--- while ignoring people ALSO clearly and INARGUABLY violating your own guidelines -- in a much more significant way, since the ONLY people aware of "what I'm doing" happen to be reading comments NOT visible to anyone on the site in general. Screwing up someone else's efforts to contribute without justification or explanation? "Hey, NO PROBLEM whatsoever"???? >:-(<br \> As above: Tin plated dictators with delusions of godhood. Stop throwing your weight around at me and start enforcing your own rules for reverts!!! <br \>--OBloodyHell 21:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

-<br\> "And we don't keep the information you listen on the Twin Serpent Lakes area because it's true for every area with a Statue of Melandru, and the information on what the bonus does is already listed here." 1) So the pages for locations in nightfall and cantha don't list shrines? Oh, wait, THEY DO! So what is your excuse for not listing defacto shrines with bonuses in the prophecies sections???<br \> 2) If you're arguing with the format, I chose that because it IS that used on the Elona/Cantha pages. EXccuuuuuuuse me for trying to be consistent. Silly me.. <br \> 3) In short, I've been reverted for doing something matching other pages and in blatant violation of guildwiki standards for doing so, just because someone hasn't ever bothered to consider that they're doing things inconsistently? I'm duplicating this over on that page's discussion page. --OBloodyHell 21:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * NPA and 1RV are two separate policies. Violation of one does not give you the right to violate another. --JonTheMon 21:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing personal, but lay off the caps. It makes your text less readable. Same goes for spamming punctuation. More on topic; imho it isn't a bad note, but should be placed in the Notes section. It's indeed far from obvious to a casual player.
 * Also, the point was not listing what the shrine does, not wether there is a shrine at all. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (sigh) Viper, if there's nothing to link the user to the fact that they do anything where will they learn this in the first place? You say "point it to a specific location which discusses that particular behavior" -- that's one thing. That's not how it's been done, that's not how it's been handled. No one has called attention to this or bothed to make that change. The revert was just done with another naysaying response.<br \>


 * Jon, stop trying to change the subject:<br \>

1) I didn't claim it did as you suggest.<br \> 2) I am asking if anyone has bothered to say anything at all to the people doing the naysaying reverts. I seriously doubt it.<br \> 3) I have yet to have anyone acknowledge to me that this has been done incorrectly and that I have been given crap for responding to the revert within guildwiki guidelines. So I'm a bit ticked that I'm taking crap when acting within guidelines and others are clearly not.<br \> 4) Sorry, I don't tend to respond to rude people by being polite to them. It doesn't work to justify rude behavior. And no, someone being rude to you because you're being rude back is not covered by that.<br \> 5) "1" and "4" above should not be construed as ignoring the complaint in question, however. I do believe that you all need to discuss amongst yourselves the fact that you've probably not corrected people who are in blatant violation of your expressed standards for reverts, and I'd feel a heck of a lot less desire to snap at such rudeness if I actually believed that issue was taken seriously. I've seen no sign of such an attitude so far. The only person who seems to have taken the argument/complaint even vaguely seriously is Dr. Ishmael, and I believe I've made ample case for the complaint. <br \>--OBloodyHell 22:14, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Have a look at what Jon actually did to the article: he linked to the statue, so that following the link brings you to the information you seek. It is often the case that such compromises escape the people who revert and the people who wrote too much, and that's why we're a community, no? Shit happens, but if you dwell on it, you miss the opportunity to improve. -- ◄mendel► 22:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)