Talk:Wastrel's Demise

I'm pretty sure they got Demise and Worry mixed up in the text. WW is the one that deals damage if you don't cast, so Demise must be damage if you do. --Theeth (talk)   21:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I think the difference is the part about the damage being proportional to the number of spells on the skill bar. --Karlos 22:26, 20 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I think they got the description of Wastrel's Demise right and just got confused about how Wastrel's Worry works. We'll find out soon enough. Either way, they need to lay off the eggnog. -- Gordon Ecker 01:50, 21 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I take it, WD is a one-time Backfire with additional damage for each spell on the skillbar. In any case it's pretty sad that they got the effect of WW wrong on the official website. ANYBODY who has played a Mesmer for some time must have noticed the error. Obviously ANet's webdesign team doesn't play Mesmer. ;) --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:35, 21 September 2006 (CDT)


 * It wouldn't be the first time they publish misleading info on their site *cough* damage explanations *cough* --Theeth (talk)   17:06, 21 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Well they made it a real waste to bother linking these two skills as 'complimentary' when they both have similar counters to them. It would seem that Overload and WW would make a better pair based on their explanation.(Terra Xin 09:11, 6 October 2006 (CDT))


 * I can't see the relation between this spell and WW. According to the description, there is no way for the attacked character to react to this, and the bonus damage will occur pretty much always. Also, this is a spell, WW is a hex, this damages the target instantly, while WW has a 3 second delay. -- Sai Qui 02:55, 14 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Because both WW and WD rely on the target NOT casting spells. Neither of them will be any effective if the target casts a spell.(Terra Xin 05:52, 24 October 2006 (CDT))

They've rewritten the description (along with a couple of the older blocks on that page). Wastrel's Demise seems like it is a version of Wastrel's Worry with more focus on spells. The new description isn't really any better, and I don't see why we should guess wildly at what it does when it's not plainly spelled out.24.53.130.233 22:21, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

This spell ended up rather boring, no? Seva 14:55, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's certainly better than some alternatives that come to mind... *cough* overload *coughcoughcough* --Ufelder 02:35, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Significantly weaker in PvE due to monsters only having 4-5 skills on their bar. -Flypaper Well this looks pretty good, esp against monks who don't want to cast in fear of interruption.-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 11:22, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

At level 16, it can deal 88 damage, in 1/4 of a second! Wow... Dr Titan 16:36, 30 December 2006 (CST)

This... no. I mean, it could work... with Arcane Echo... maybe... LavaEdge324 17:03, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Approx at Domination Magic level 18: Target foe takes 5...38 damage. If that foe is not casting a Spell, that foe takes an additional 3...8 damage for each equipped Spell.

Hmm, let's assume favorable circumstances - you have Domination 18 (bleh -.-) and your foe's skillbar is entirely composed of spells. In that case you'd get 38 + 8 X 7 damage, or 38 + 56 = 94 damage.

That is a lot of damage for just 5 energy, but honestly...if the foe has a full bar of just spells, it should be pretty hard to catch them not casting. Moreover, most players don't have just spells on the bar, even if it's only for Rez sig or such. Finally, I can't see anyone seriously using this in PvP (where it would be most useful) because it's utterly useless against Warriors, Assassins, Rangers, Paragons...and for the other classes it might or might not be useful. A Dervish doesn't necessarily carry any spells, for instance. And a Rit could be a Rit Lord with all Binding Rituals. Ele usually has Glyphs, Monks have skills like CoP and others, Mesmer has signets...etc etc. I'm gonna Tag this skill if no one objects. >< Entropy 14:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * So... you've never played HA or GvG? --Fyren 16:05, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * Explain? Entropy 16:08, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * While mesmers aren't very common in HA since the 6-man change, just about any domination mesmer in GvG will have this and spiritual pain to throw into a spike. This has a 1/4s cast time.  --Fyren 16:13, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * Backfire or diversion before casting demise. Or e-deny. &bull; Dekan 16:11, 27 January 2007 (CST)


 * Aah, I didn't even see that 1/4 cast time. Must be a bit "distracted"...sorry. In general PvE though, this is bad. Entropy 17:07, 27 January 2007 (CST)

Anet just totally killed this wonderful skill. Bye bye eurospike (again). :S 87.74.53.179 06:33, 8 March 2007 (CST)

Ever heard of Mesmer Fast Casting? they wanted the skills slightly less over used on mesmer secondaries, but still, 1 second isn't a long casting time. Ckal Ktak 16:35, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * I'm guessing you're a PvE dude. Ever heard of Infuse Health?  In PvP, 1/4 sec --> 1 sec turns this from a hugely effective afterspike skill into... well, I'm not sure what, but it isn't good.  And I have never seen a mesmer secondary use this skill in GvG, HA, or even RA - so where's all this "over use" going on? 87.74.52.75 14:16, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

Ever seen any good mesmer skills left? The list keeps getting nerf and is getting shorter. --Icyangel Strawberry 12:12, 9 March 2007 (CST)

"PvE dude" ? So PvP dudes are better than PvE dudes, but stop complainting about a cast time, +3/4secs, it's ridiculousely short, and still usefull : but let's think like a PvP guy for a minute : " oh no they nerfed it hugely, let's not even test it, it's a shit and that's all" you are killing skills thaks to your closed mind, like you killed ether renewal... which is not dead at all. I think you are just Dumb

Reverted
I just looked at Wastrel's Demise after seeing someone use it, and it's been changed back to 1⁄4 cast! NOOOO --Gimmethegepgun 15:02, 6 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ack, so it is. Lets hope it was just clumsiness on ANet's part.. &mdash; Skuld 15:05, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Casting Time Re-reverted.
It is now 1 second again.

Needs buff
This skill is currently useless. The maximum damage is 88. The maximum damage of Overload is 95. Overload has shorter recast and shorter cast time and deals unconditional damage. Even if used against a non-caster, Overload will outperform WD because the shorter recharge. Overload got a nice buff, but that made WD obsolete. So buff WD in damage (and not cast time) A.Saturnus 14:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * /Agrees. Roxas XIII 11:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is one of those skills that was never useful in PvP or PvE. so i dont think it will ever get a buff, considering there are much more needed buffs to other skills that have simply been ignored into obliteration.--66.192.104.13 18:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Before it was nerfed, this was used on Mesmers for small spike, but it is too slow now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a cover hex I guess. --[[Image:Takisig2.png]] 22:52, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's used for covering more important things. 1/4 activation time + fast cast and minor degen is pretty hawt. [-Lifestyle-] 23:01, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty Lame
After the change, it's a little more interesting, but still pretty lame. The total damage output just doesn't match the recharge. So I was thinking, why not make it an energy version of Wastrel's Worry? It could be like "Target foe is hexed, blah blah, in the next 3 seconds, that foe loses 1...3 energy". 4 sec recharge, so people wouldn't just spam it like crazy.--Darksyde  18:06, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * That actually would probably be better than the current function of "WW." --174.101.255.217 08:53, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Update
Now it's like a little pocket portable version of Savannah Heat for Mesmers. Kaze 01:53, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Note removal?
I don't under the reason for removing the notes in this edit. I'd like to see at least the second note returned, but thought I might have missed some other reason for its removal. Thanks. &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:28, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Targeting foes during aftercast is still somewhat useful (but perhaps not enough to keep the note).
 * Targeting foes that don't use skills is still a great idea: the damage is dependent on the hex lasting on the target foe and they are unable to remove it themselves. At best, any melee foes that forget out of the way (i.e. all in PvE) take increasing damage; at worst, the enemy healer has to waste a hex removal on a pet.


 * Imo, onky the second should be put back in, since it still benefits from foes not using skills. The new WDemise barely benefits from being cast during aftercast. --Vipermagi 15:40, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree w/Viper. 5-second duration is too long for the exact moment of casting (i.e. during target's aftercast) to matter very much, especially since the first damage packet doesn't hit immediately, it hits at the 1-second mark, and the total aftercast is only 0.75 seconds.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:49, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Blackout?
Could one combine this with Blackout's 5 second disable period to ensure that it lasts its full duration? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.89.36.250 (contribs).


 * Possible, but keep in mind that you'll have your own aftercast to deal with when you finish casting WD, and then Blackout has a 1-second casting time (could be reduced a bit by Fast Casting, of course), so there would be nearly 2 seconds for your foe to use a skill in between. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 21:08, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * False about the Blackout casting time; it's a touch skill, not a spell, so it gains no benefit from the Fast Casting attribute. Guaranteed 1.75 seconds' worth of time between WD and Blackout, and that's assuming you're miraculously still standing right next to him after WD's aftercast. Only way to really coordinate it with Blackout is to use two mesmers for an awkward spike (albeit an impractical one, in the more-trouble-than-it's-worth sense of the word).  Could double up with Worry, though, for lots of armor-ignoring damage.  Ethigenetic 00:59, August 14, 2010 (UTC)