Talk:Guild Wars Nightfall


 * /Archive - The deletion debate
 * /Archive 2 - up to the announcement that it is the title of Campaign 3.
 * Talk:Campaign Three/Archive - discussion of the new campaign up to the announcement of the title.

No official information... There is now!
Taken from here.


 * In a press release issued today, you can read details from ArenaNet and NCsoft about the third game in the Guild Wars saga. Guild Wars Nightfall will present two new professions—the Dervish and the Paragon—and will offer “a Guild Wars game unlike any players have seen before.” And in the same announcement, you can read plans for an exciting PvP event, scheduled to begin July 28th. Find details in today’s press release.

I don't know how to comment text in Wiki's, please forgive me. --SK  09:22, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * also - the news just showed up on the american site ST47 09:57, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Cool! :D I think it will be arab/area related, dervish comes from there. Stuck on what a paragon is :/ &mdash; Skuld  09:24, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Dervish - holy scythe wielding warrior
 * Paragon - guardian angel of the elonian people

New melee and defence profession? sound familier? xD I hope in chapter 4 they have more casters &mdash; Skuld  09:28, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Some pic's of the new professions here --SK [[Image:Monk-icon-small.png]] 09:42, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * nice stuff ST47 09:56, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Any pics of the scythes yet? Not that I'm curious or anything. I'm just nosy. --Black Ark 10:07, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Holy warriors and guardian angels? I sense Holy Damage abilities. I hope the scythes are 2d4 with a x4 crit modifier. :P -Gares 13:10, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Scytes are ooning this game want to do preview right now! -- Tomoko


 * Hey some new info is out from m here
 * When a corrupt ruler summons the power of an outcast god and infects the land with a creeping darkness, it will take a band of heroes to save Elona. Guild Wars Nightfall is the roleplaying game gamers have been waiting for – an intimate, heroic experience where your decisions shape your personal game experience and your customizable party becomes an extension of your character. In this third campaign in the award-winning Guild Wars® universe, this is Guild Wars® like you've never seen before.
 * • Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice.


 * • A new game type, Hero vs. Hero Battles will allow a single player to participate in PvP with hero NPCs.


 * • Two new professions: The Dervish, a scythe-wielding holy warrior and The Paragon, the guardian angels of the Elonian people.


 * • 4 new guild halls.


 * • 300 new skills.


 * • 250 Quests, 55 explorable areas, 20 new Story Missions, and three new Challenge Missions.


 * • Peerless online RPG action with no monthly fees! Minimoose 19:05, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * It is well known that game retailers lie about release dates, but they don't make up features. So I think we can trust that the info was given to EBgames by NCsoft and can be considered official. I wouldn't mind putting this into the article. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 01:37, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * We should follow the same rules as before, leave it here until it is confirmed by ANet. --Rainith 01:39, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I think we may be following it a bit too strictly, given that it says what the article has is subject to change and preliminary. Even Wikipedia has more Nightfall information then GuildWiki at this point which seems silly. --Siberian 12:00, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It's because they contain speculation, guesses, unconfirmed content, etc; while we've kept to factual confirmed content. In this case, it's a shortcoming of Wikipedia's content, not of ours. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:11, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * °Sigh° Off course, strictly speaking you're right. But it's so tempting ... :/ --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 01:45, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't think there would necessarily be anything wrong with linking to that page in the article (under the links section) and stating that there is a tentative list of features there. Some might disagree with me as that would be linking to a commercial site.  --Rainith 01:50, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, the fact that it's a game retailer's website makes me reluctant to link there. I'd rather not give them free advertising. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:31, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Well Guild Wars Online has the story on their website, we can always link to them. ^_^ ~ Zero rogue x 03:31, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * So has GwGuru. Isn't it ironic that the "Elite" fansites aren't quite as strict as we are when it comes to publishing "unofficial" information and copyrighted images? And ANet doesn't seem to mind. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:55, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * That's because this came from Anet/NCSoft's marketing department anyway --Siberian 07:59, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Note the post by Gaile Gray here. While she doesn't clearly say that the information about the game features given by EBgames is wrong she clearly says "Wait to hear it from ArenaNet.". So we should do that. Accordingly, I removed the features given by EBgames from the article again. -- 07:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And again. --68.142.14.19 13:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

East of The Crystal Desert?
It says that the Paragon was gaurdian angel of the Elonians, and it is rumored by many sites that Nightfall is North African themed, so maybe its actually a desert located to the east of the desert.
 * Um, why do you think it'd be on Tyria as opposed to being on a new continent? THE Crystal Desert is a special desert that no human civilization can endure, which must obviously be quite a different environment from the north-african themed region (and I'm guessing Nightfall will have at least three regions, if not 4 like Factions) where Nightfall will take place.  They should be two different types of deserts. - 21:41, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The Prophecies worldmap doesn't show the edges of the Tyrian continent. It's entirely possible that Nightfall is set in another part of the Tyrian landmass, east or southeast of the Crystal Desert, north or northeast of the Charr homeland, west of the Maguuma Jungle and the Mursaat homeland or northwest of Giant's Basin. Eurasia's a single landmass, but it's still considered three continents (or two continents and a subcontinent), and it's also connected to Africa by a narrow isthmus. -- Gordon Ecker 22:25, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree with your point, which is all the more reason to challenge the original point. Both being deserts is too weak a link IMHO to draw a special connection, considering one environment is completely hostile to human civilization and the other is probably going to be at least the size of a nation (with probably over a thousand years of history too).  That's like saying "Campaign 105482, which has a rainforest theme, might be just south of the Echovald Forest", in an alternate reality where the Echovald forest has always been petrified since its existence as opposed to only turning petrified by the Jade Wind.  The difference between the Crystal Desert and a desert where at least a nation lives on, to me is as different as the Echovald Forest vs the Maguuma Jungle. - 04:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Eh, I would have preferred this to be expanding Tyria and Cantha, instead of introducing, yet, another half-explorable continent. I mean, who wouldn't want to go to Orr? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:31, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Someone who can't breathe underwater. --68.142.14.77 23:40, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The guy in the Dragon Festival was saying that the Crystal Desert was in Elona. Since this is a most recent update, I think ANet have changed their minds from their original design of the Crystal Desert (in my opinion). I think the idea that the new place will be east of the present Crystal Desert is a fair assumption. Why a new map? Because each chapter has it's own map that's connected to other chapters by the boat icon. Maybe they'll get around that, but I think they won't. --Karlos 06:27, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Then that guy was misinformed. Damn those Krytan sailors, spreading their lies and diseases to those poor, gullible Canthans. From what I gathered, the Elonians just tried to reach Ascension in the Crystal Desert, and failed miserably. That means they just made it to the desert - or parts of it, anyhow - but it doesn't necessarily imply that they were were from the desert originally. Having said that, the new designs do look fairly desert-savvy, the Dervish in particular. Not too certain about the Paragon, but that particular design smacks more of a remote Egyptian look to me. --Black Ark 08:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

There is no chance that Elonia is directly adjacent to the Crystal Desert, at least not on the same map. For technical reasons (because each campaign is stand-alone) each campaign must be a separate continent with a separate map. ANet decided to link all these campaigns by ports. You cannot ride a camel from Elonia to Tyria, you must travel by ship. -- 06:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * While I agree that the most likely solution will be to link to a 100% new map via the ship travel icon, there are other travel options besides going by ship. For one, inserting a new teleporter that only works for someone who owns Nightfall, or which only transports someone who has been magically transformed/cleansed in some way.  While even more unlikely, they could even have some degree of overlap in the existing crystal desert by inserting quests or missions that are only accessible by characters that have completed a Nightfall-only task. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:01, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Maybe ANet will establish some additional link from Elonia directly to the Crystal Desert, but that can't be the only link to Tryia, because in that case Elonian characters could only reach Tryia, Kryta and Maguuma by a Droknar run (in reverse direction). A ship connection to Lion's Arch is a must. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:14, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * You know? I hope the Nightfall campaign will only be accessible from the Crystal Desert. Preferably from the Dragon's Lair, or at the very least, after ascension. It disgusts me, the way people get their pre-teen-level characters rushed to LA and then, without a hitch, hop on the boat to Kaineng to get max-level armour crafted. Then, it's a walk in the park with two fingers up their nose to just accumulate quests and get to level 20 in the span of a day, because of the powerful henchies (eight of `em, right off the bat) and ludicrously easy high-EXP quests at their disposal. I don't want that for Nightfall. If, hypothetically, you get a quest from some NPC to get your Canthan/Tyrian character to the lands of Elonia, I want this NPC to take a good long look at your character, and just flat-out tell you you're too weak to join the fun if you're not level 15 or so. Yes, Mhenlo could've done that for Factions. He should have. And since NPC's possess the uncanny ability to see other character's levels (see also Yijo Tahn), it would actually have made sense for him to tell you to get some more experience under your belt before sending your pitiful level 2 character to deal with Shiro and his plague. I'm sure I'll end up seeing more rushed nooblets than I can tolerate in Nightfall, but I want them to at least suffer through something terrible and unavoidable like ascension first. And I hope Dopple and/or Glint will make them bleed. --Black Ark 18:05, 23 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I hate the way there's no skills quests except for the very start in Factions. In Prophesies you can get run from Lion's Arch to the Crystal Desert (or a Droks run) but your character will be missing so many skills, skills that can be obtained for free by doing the skill quests so you feel inclined to go back and go back and do them. In Factions I don't even know what the point of questing is in it, you just get lots of XP for quests...woo hoo, pointless! --Xasxas256 18:25, 23 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yup. You could argue that you fight your way through to different zones in order to buy new skills there, but that doesn't fly with me. Anet, it's not going to kill you guys to scrap a few of the multi-thousand EXP-quests, and replace them with skill-quests instead. It doesn't matter if those skills aren't top of the line, but at least give us a reason to explore your world besides a vanity-title. I like unlocking skills, even skills I may never use; and I like to do so by the sweat of my brow. I heard through the grapevine that Nightfall will follow a different branch of what GW has to offer (as opposed to the strong PVP/competitive gameplay from Factions); I'd love to see this one be more PVE-oriented. One way of doing that is what you said - add quests that may cause people to feel inclined to back-track for, or in general, to stray the beaten path and visit remote quest-givers. That was, and is, still what I liked best about Prophecies, damnit. --Black Ark 01:35, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I think they should bring back skill gems in the form of customised quest reward items (or maybe just a number in the hero window next to skill points) that can be spent as credits to get free (no gold or skill point cost) skills from trainers. Prophecies skill quests give you 2 skills each, but they don't give you any choice in those skills (except for the SoC quests), Factions quests give you more choices, but they generally only give you, at most, a fifth of a skill worth of experience and a quarter of a skill worth of gold, this would be a balance between the two systems. On second thought, they could just have some or all of Nightfall's skill quests outside of the campaign's starting area give signets of capture, which would be a lot simpler to implement. I'd certainly backtrack, do a quest and then hunt down and cap a boss to save 1 platinum.
 * Anyway, I don't see a problem with requiring characters to be Ascended, Weh no So or the Elonian equivalent as a pre-requisite for the intercontinental travel quests, in fact based on the pre-release Factions Faq it appears that Ascension was originally intended to be a pre-requisite for those quests. I'd dislike the change, but I'd be okay with it since I was expecting the ascension pre-requisite when I bought Factions. That said, anyone who can go Lion's Arch to Kaineng Center (or from LA or Kaineng Center to the Elonian capitol) owns at least 2 campaigns, and I think it's safe to assume that most PvE players who own two campaigns have played through most or all of one of the campaigns before buying the other, rather than buying both at the same time before they were even sure if they would like Guild Wars (although there are some exceptions, I bought Diablo 2 and the Lord of Destruction expansion at the same time). -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * New map? Definitely. Accessible by ship? It pretty much has to be. A new continent? Not necessarily. The western edge of the Nightfall map could match up with the eastern edge of the Prophecies map, separated from central Tyria by nearly impassable mountains and desert so everyone travels by ship. There could be a desert region with wurms, scarabs and devourers in the southwest (probably with one or more huge rivers running through it like Egypt or Mesopotamia), a mountainous region with Charr in the northwest and pretty much whatever terrain they want in the other two thirds of the map. I'm not saying it's necessarily the case, I'm just saying that it's possible. -- Gordon Ecker 20:18, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * According to EBGames.com
 * When a corrupt ruler summons the power of an outcast god and infects the land with a creeping darkness, it will take a band of heroes to save Elona. Guild Wars Nightfall is the roleplaying game gamers have been waiting for – an intimate, heroic experience where your decisions shape your personal game experience and your customizable party becomes an extension of your character. In this third campaign in the award-winning Guild Wars® universe, this is Guild Wars® like you've never seen before. With more than two million copies sold worldwide, Guild Wars® is the award-winning epic roleplaying game that revolutionized online gaming with its free gameplay.
 * There is also information here describing new play style (custom NPC Henchmen)
 * now i understand this might just be some BS to sell some pre-orders, but they can't possibly just make this stuff up, i'm sure ANet provided them with some insight into what the game will be about.--Skammich 23:08, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
 * EB/Gamestop doesn't make stuff up for their listings outside of release dates. They have too many products to list to manage to craft fake features for them and they'd just take a bunch of heat from the publisher/developer/players for doing so.  Whatever they post comes straight from NCSoft/Anet marketing and should be regarded as 'official' as Gamespot. --Siberian 07:38, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree they are too busy to make things up on their own. However, (with respect to features) they might took the liberty to "translate" the list of features provided to them, into what they think sounds more exciting and more attention-grabbing.  Something can easily get jumbled up in this "translation". - 09:32, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Note Gaile Gray's comment referenced above by Tetris L. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:34, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * (custom NPC Henchmen) "G-Gwen? What are you doing here? And... why in the hell are you using Frenzy!?" --Black Ark 01:48, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Frequency of new campaign release
Am I the only one annoyed that this is coming out so soon? I have barely gotten out of the big city in Factions and now they're foisting another campaign on me? I know I don't have to buy it, but it's still kind of irritating. --130.179.170.102 14:57, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, this is sort of how Guild Wars compensates for not having a with pay-per-month subscription. If you think about it, a $50-60 new game/expansion every 6 months averages to $8-10 per month. Only, it's much more flexible since it's a one time pay and you aren't forced to buy the new expansions if you don't want to. After a few expansions it will be pretty easy to see the pattern (how new profs are introduced, new skills, more skills for core, new map, etc.) so you might not have to buy all of them but buy only ones that interest you. Just what I think of it. --Vortexsam 16:10, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Heh, the news about Nightfall has just made me play the first two chapters more, in the hope that I'll finish everything I feel like doing before it comes out. Must... get... every skill... in the game... &mdash;Aranth 23:46, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

The frequency of new campaigns (new areas!) is ok - but I don't like the new classes. I don't like assassines and ritualists, i prefer the classic classes. And now again 2 new classes, phew! ---Imoen
 * Fortunately, nobody's forcing you to play the new classes. Me, I like to see a bit of variety. I may hate Assassins and the people playing them, but they and the Ritualists sure do break up the scenery. And I certainly like that. --Black Ark 08:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah I dont have to play them, but i must understand them and their skills to compete in pvp. ---Imoen [[Image:Necromancer-icon.png|16px]]
 * Agree with you Imoen. New classes coming out every 6 months or so is gonna hit gameplay quality HARD. So many A/Rt running around in TA,RA and then A/Mo Rt/A .. Why cant Anet just make a new expansion with more type of PvP (like they added AB). But no new classes please!!  Robin of Glory  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 12:50, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yup, they shouldn't add two new professions every 6 months. It messes up both PvP and PvE. This is one more reason for me NOT to play with anything other than henchmen. (And even choosing the freaking henchmen is made difficult now with the million options. : --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:22, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Honestly, the new professions aren't such a big deal. What you need to know about ritualists: interrupts totally mess up ritual lord spirit spam.  What you need to know about assassins: They teleport, but only up to radar range max.  They can knocklock you and apply condition stacks, but they need to hit with multiple consecutive attack skills to be effective.  - Ninja Quail
 * I'm okay with a campaign that doesn't have any new professions as long as that means the ~50% of the skills, ~40% of the armor styles and ~40% of the armor stat types that would've normally been reserved for the 2 new professions (based on the numbers in Factions) get divided up among the six core professions. A lot of people would be really angry if the was a new campaign with no new professions and only 150 new skills. -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Whoa, let's not talk crazy now. First let my characters have their scythes and the related profession, then we'll talk about abolishing future classes altogether. In all seriousness, and I think I said this before, the diversity in classes does break up the scenery nicely. Besides, the class-combinations, huh? That's really an interesting point about this game, just mixing and matching new skills/classes until you come up with something that just clicks. There's literally dozens cookie-cutter builds out there, I'm looking forward to seeing some fresh builds. Having said that - skill-quests. No excuses. Cut the (n*1000 EXP)+150 gold + crap, I'm sick and tired of that already. --Black Ark 11:36, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes skillquests! I played in Factions with a Level 20 Ranger who didn't know that he must take the "Charm Animal" skill with him if he wanted his pet to come. I think with skillquest one gets to know the skills better, because you get them one after the other. Second thing I don't like: you get to level 20 by doing the tutorial. Beeing Level 20 is not, like in the prophecies campaign, a sign that one played for a longer time and knows his character. Many people who didn't play prophecies just don't have any clue. --Imoen [[Image:Necromancer-icon.png|16px]] 04:05, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

chaos rift demons
Acolyte Norge has some interesting things to say. Also, from Tetris L's translation of this article here, "Then, just for a few seconds, we saw a very different picture: A dark, ravaged world [... ] with the sky unnaturally darkened. "This is where evil comes from." is what Mike [O'Brien] simply states." I strongly suspect that the chaos rift demons are connected to the main villain of Nightfall, who I suspect may be connected with Dhuum (The Fury looks like the Riders of Dhuum). Another possibility is that they're compleetly unrelated to the main plot of Nightfall and are some sort of preview for the next divine realm (probably Lyssa's with all this talk of chaos. Interestingly, the concept art for grasps is in the Prophecies manual (page 111). -- Gordon Ecker 07:51, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * So may the speculations continue ... ;) --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:17, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Realm of Lyssa? I'll take one thank you. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:35, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

Release date
The Gamespot article mentions a release date. As it's not officially listed by ArenaNet on their site, I'm reading the Gamespot date as an estimated target date. As such, I've removed the recent addition of that info by an anon due to our precedent of C2 and which is listed in this article where "Only dates that are officially announced by ArenaNet will be posted here". --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:24, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Agree. - 15:20, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Leaving it in the discussion is probably acceptable, though ;). Also, can I give Karlos a pre-emptive "I told you so" about the two releases a year? Thanks. ;) Shandy

new press release
on http://www.guildwars.com/events/ingame/gwn-pvppreview.php there is some more information about the attributes for the two new classes. I'll add it to their class pages. --roofle 12:25, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * someone changed the primary attribute from spear mastery to leadership. I'll admit it seems much more likely that leadership would be primary, but according to guildwars.com spear mastery is their primary. --roofle 12:33, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I changed it, because that's what the site says. I know it doesn't make sense... but if that's what they say and it turns out to be wrong change it back once we have in game proof. --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 12:57, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * guildwars.com had the primary incorrectly listed as Spear Mastery. It's been changed there too.Wil 23:14, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Features listed
Features were added with the description "features published on 25th July 2006 by Gaile Gray". Anyone know where this was published? If it can't be documented, will need to revert it (also posted on User_talk:Kyuubi no Youko). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:30, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Update: from the user page referenced above:
 * It is (at least from my info) somewhere on GuildWarsGuru.Com and GWOnline.Net forums, though, this info I gave there is from translated and shortened version (the important things) here (but it is in Czech and you might not understand it ;)
 * Unfortuneately, the Czech site doesn't appear to reference the specific posting. So, can anyone point towards a forum post, or captures of her in game dialogs? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:42, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * There is a thread about it on GWGuru here. The original is here. It's not really an official announcement. More like hear-say. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:44, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmmm, I was hoping for a post by Gaile Gray herself. Unless we can find captures of the in-game discussion being referenced, then I believe the features are still unconfirmed.  I'm removing them for now, until someone can locate a documented "official" source rather than second hand postings of what a third party remembered being said. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:53, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

OK, as there is Barek, who doesn't want information for which he didn't see certain evidence, "rumors" about Gaile Gray coming to SJM yesterday are written here. Believe it or not, that's just your thing; I believe it, Barek doesn't &mdash; everything will be known just after Barek sees or when Nightfall is released. I would just want to know, why is this sentence: "Previews provided at E3 2006 suggest the use of North African/Middle Eastern settings." written here, when it isn't officially confirmed? And also, do you think Czech is a language of lies? :) &mdash;Kyuubi no Youko 03:41, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I am not criticizing Czech. Your source, by your own admission, was a translation of another source.  The most likely source was listed as the posting by a forum user on Guru's forums.  That user was posting his recollections of what was said, which may or may not be an accurate recollection.  I am sorry that you have taken it as a personal offence, it was certainly not meant as one.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 03:47, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And that sentence about Africa? &mdash;Kyuubi no Youko 03:51, 26 July 2006 (CDT)