Talk:Main Page/editcopy/Archive 4

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Eye of the North Released?
So it is in the new stuff section again? WHy not GW2 also?
 * Because its in 2 years as opposed to a few months? Lord of all tyria 13:23, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It was taken down before because it wasn't release, since it wasn't released it wasn't news any more than GW2 is.

Repetition
Doesn't the page kind of repeat itself when it says "New player campaign guides - For first time players"? -   Darktemplar56 21:33, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * no 67.162.10.70 21:54, 27 June 2007 (CDT)


 * yes. what about "Newbie Campaign Guides - For first time players"? That way it would be understandable for all and still not be a stylistic repetition.


 * no one cares, 1) if ur not a noob u shouldnt care at all, 2) noobs dont even know what wiki is so by the time they find out what wiki is they wont even need to look at it, get rid of it imo.

Archive Time?
The page is now 68 kilobytes long, more than double of what some computer browsers can handle. Nhnowell 11:30, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * was thinking the same thing when i opened the page up. -- Xeon 12:01, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Modding
Recently, players have begun using programs such as TexMod to toggle with the txture of the game. ANet seems to be internally divided over the issue, and some modders are being banned, while many others are not even though they both are doing the same things. Are there any articles on the Wiki about modding? Also, I'm curious as to what you guys believe ANet will do about the issue, because modding multiplayer games is an INCREDIBLY grey area in games and game companies. Nhnowell 19:38, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Word has it that TexMod has trojans. ANet has seemingly banned people at random, and the official response is, until further notice, that yes, modifying your gw.dat file will get you permanently banned. Emily said she would take it to the higher-ups, but the last official response leaned towards banning. - Auron 19:49, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * See the GWWiki article for the modding guide that started this all. Emily Diehl will keep us informed on her talk page or the talk page of that article. -- [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 01:36, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I hadn't heard anything about TexMod trojans...that's interesting. I read the guide, and Emily Diehl's page. Apparently no modding unless ANet comes out with a traightforward statement that modding is OK. Nhnowell 11:23, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Ick...
Is it just me, or does anyone see the main page tabs (Article, Discussion, Edit, Jistory, Watch, etc.) covering the title "Main Page". Nhnowell
 * Clear your cache, see if that solves it. -- Xeon 17:31, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks, it's gone now. Nhnowell 17:32, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

I see it as well and clearing the cache did nothing. 69.40.46.76 23:07, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * If it isn't gone already for you, just try changing the page to a different link on the wiki, or refreshing the page a couple times. Nhnowell 10:23, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Ads
This is a 13 year old + game, and we have ads with half naked women on the sidebar....how nice. - Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 21:04, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Totally agree, I don't want to look at a mostly naked girl when I come to the wiki page. And I don't want my 14 year old sibling looking at it either. --67.10.79.97 23:28, 9 July 2007 (CDT)


 * The worst I have seen is a Character that is cartoonist to say the least. Besides...if your 14 *cooties* lolz Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:29, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


 * If you're talking about the IMVU ads, at least they're better than this pop culture abomination *shudder*. -- Gordon Ecker 00:45, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


 * They're talking about Bullz-eye.com. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.28.88.89 (contribs).


 * Was definitely talking about 'real' human girls, not cartoons. Borderline pornography. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.10.79.97 (contribs).


 * These days you can see borderline pornography in shampoo commercials. Still, the fact that you can see something in a commercial doesn't make it work-safe. -- Gordon Ecker 23:55, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't see the add itself so I cannot judge about that, but when I visited that website it took me just 2 mouseclicks to get to the R-rated movie section (and having software (malware?) trying to install itself on the pc).--- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  04:47, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

This has nothing to do with the abovementioned ads, but I just had an ad appear at the bottom of my screen for a "GuildWars gold, platinum, and green" selling website called The Candycane Man. I went to the website, and they claim that they are not like other websites that use bots because all of their items are obtained "ethically." They also claim to be fans of the game, but true fans would not do something so against the EULA. These types of ads should NOT be appearing on GuildWiki. Is there any way to stop them? Kokuou 14:28, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Probably not. I'm pretty sure the ads appear based on what's on your page. So if you're looking at a page about Guild Wars then you're bound to see an add for GW gold.Butterflybangs 13:50, 18 September 2007 (CDT)


 * haha youre a bunch of losers. get over it you lamers. theres nothing wrong with skin, your just some religious loser that doesnt understand anything about life and thinks this "God" said its bad, bad? then never take your clothes off, cover yourself from head to toe, and your face, like some muslim idiot. Btw, god doesnt exist just so u losers know.

Sponsor for GWiki
You have a sponsor www.bullz-eye.com that popped up. This site contains porno graphical images... Figured I let you no before anet did.--68.102.128.17 00:04, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


 * / actually that site is just a gossip site if anything. Models, stars, ect. Not really "Porn" at all. Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:22, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


 * On the other hand, that may well be the semi-naked women as mentioned in the above section. Some people do find that offensive, however I feel that there's much worse to be seen in-game with the "naked" dancing and, er, stuff... -- Snog  rat [[Image:User Snograt signature.png]] 04:58, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Im lovin the bullz-eye ads.Amaster2 11:52, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

date for the updates
I think it would be cool if you guys put the date of the last update next to the link for updates. So I can see if there has been one when im on my way to another section. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.149.65.129 (contribs).

Game Basics
This may seem overly simple, but under GAME BASICS can we add a sub title for Keyboard Controls? I assume most people who bought the game in stores got some kind of manual or keyboard template to show which keys did what, but if you bought online as I did - there is no template and I can't find one on the WIKI so far.

Meanwhile, I did recently edit the GAME Interface section to add what I know about the use of the ALT key and CTRL keys. Probably not the best place for it, but I don't see where else it should go. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by LeFick (contribs).


 * Hotkeys has a partial list. I've added a link from interface to hotkeys. -- Gordon Ecker 17:43, 12 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks, I have been reading Wiki for 6 months, and recently just started to contribute edits. But in all that time I had not even randomly come across the hot keys page.--LeFick 19:03, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

What's with the new Borders?
I just noticed the rather weird lop-sided bordrders which I asume are a broken attempt to make something like a drop shadow, not sure they look too good, though I can't do much better, broken my own userpage trying to give it drop shadows :) --Nela 08:44, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Suggestions
does anyone know how to suggest something that should be added to guildwars?--67.67.161.12 17:48, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Try the forums. -- Gordon Ecker 19:51, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * where do i find those--67.67.161.12 14:49, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
 * see http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/ for a list of them. -- Xeon 14:54, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Just a thought - giving a vague time that players can expect to complete missions/quests in would be very useful - I want to know that I have enough time to complete something before I start it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.49.27.136 (contribs).
 * I like that idea, ill write up a chart tomorrow, im trying to get hardmode and normal done on one of my chars. So i can double up and do this as well. -- Xeon 09:40, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd like to point out, that it can vary greatly based on the party. And a hour is enough to finish practically anything except elite missions and vanquishing. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 17:22, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Ads
What's with the Ads at the bottom of the page?69.40.41.93 00:02, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Indeed, I'm kinda curious too. --84.70.79.207 11:20, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Gravewit says that lately ad revenue has been lagging far behind hosting costs. --Fyren 11:48, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Wel the mass quantity of ads around the page are having a lot of trouble actually loading onto my computer, and so the border doesn't show up half the time even after several refreshes --Gimmethegepgun 16:42, 7 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Sadly, the insertion of mass ads is not the way to improve the situation long term. With pvxwiki and the official wiki coming into existance at the same time, a reduction in traffic here was inevitable.  By mass baraging the ads on everyone, it just encourages more people to either migrate away from this site, or to conceal the ads via either CSS setting or Firefox add-ins (or both).  For example, I haven't seen an ad on this site in quite some time because I have them blocked now due to their becoming intrusive. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:52, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

lol, I love how we have WoW ads now.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 21:43, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

Builds
The caption "Combos of skills" sounds really tacky. I'd suggest changing it to "Skill combinations" as seen on the editcopy. --maximusmmiv 12:44, 31 July 2007 (EST)

PvX description
"PvXwiki – A GuildWiki fork containing only build articles."

Fix pleasePvEreanor 01:00, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's intentional. PvXwiki is a project which forked off of this one to focus exclusively on builds. -- Gordon Ecker 01:28, 6 August 2007 (CDT)


 * For reference, see Fork (software_development). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:13, 6 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Oh, I get it. It's a fork of the wiki, thanks :D[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]PvEreanor 22:25, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

PvXwiki
It's been up for months now. Do we want to keep it up or take it down? - Auron 22:41, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I say until the end of the month. The Imperialist
 * Up permanently, since it's sort of an expansion from this wiki; but it needs a different place on the page as it is indeed not new anymore. --- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  03:01, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Is anyone against the two changes i just made to the editcopy? This change -- Xeon 03:32, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm cool with that. - Auron 05:03, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * /agree --- : Jill Bioskop X ( T | C )  06:12, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
 * /agree -- Gordon Ecker 15:47, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Dungeons
can we add a dungeon link where missions, quests and locations are?
 * I don't see why we shouldn't... Makes sense after all :-D the imperialist
 * Someone could put it under the Locations section. Its an important part of GW:EN after all.

GW:ULC
Move to Main page please. &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 14:45, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you serious? XD &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 17:18, 7 September 2007 (CDT)

Typo
Under "Guilds, professions, skills and gear" there is a Typo:

It should be Guilds (with an i) instead of GuLLds.

small but pls change it - makin me crazy :)

Its spelled correctly O-o the imperialist

Vandal or am I missing something?
Common scams redirects (eventually) to Scams Done By Anet To You, the Community Portal goes to Community Self Abuse... Serious. Game Updates to Uh-Oh. Plz explain. Quickly. Edit: THERE IS NO IP IN RECENT CHANGES. MODS!!! Dr ag nm n  talk  11:21, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Vandal, but no admins around, I'm guessing. Will wait till he is banned before starting to revert his stuff, no point now. --Dirigible 11:22, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * /agree, no point. Tried, he's much quicker. Dr ag nm n   talk  11:30, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * This will take a while to clean... Dr ag nm <font color="FFFF00">n  talk  11:33, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

Prices
Why does this site not allow prices to be posted?
 * Because the wiki is used for documentation, and prices constantantly fluctuate. Kinda the same reason we got rid of the builds articles too.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 12:20, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
 * ok makes sense. ty

URL Redirection
I used to be able to type in guildwiki.org/wiki/ to just jump to the article I wanted to read, but recently it's been redirecting me to the main page whenever I try this, regardless of the article I'm looking for. Does this sound like it is a problem on my end, or is this caused by something on the servers going awry? (Some Guy) 15:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's probably caus eof the wikia move. --Vipermagi 16:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

NikiWiki
Good for GW 2 suggestions and more organized than a forum. http://www.nikiwiki.com Alreajk

German Translation
How can i add a link to the german translation topic dont work--194.94.79.154 09:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Topic ? &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 22:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Tha was only an example  Ibogawurzel  does not work too, in our wiki wen can link an article to your wiki with  Iboga Root --194.94.79.154 09:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ibogawurzel ? This is an English wiki, and thus there's practically no reason to link to the German Wikipedia, since even if there's some German oriented trivia, it should link to the English Wikipedia because that explains the topic... in English... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 04:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to the German Wikipedia, to the German GuildWiki--194.94.79.154 07:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a German GuildWiki? Oo? &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 23:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I've added interlanguage links to all Wikia hosted Guild Wars wikis today, see or  for a list. I hope this helps :-) --rieke 21:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The "German GuildWiki" is a different wiki than the "German Guild Wars Wiki" on Wikia... It wasn't added in the past (the topic came up before) because the affliction was never official, and Gravewit also didn't respond I think (this was before Fyren had sysadmin status).  -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 22:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Featured content, revamp?
For such a large wiki, the main page is very basic. Why not have a featured article section (article of the month), as many other wikiprojects do? The main page could be reorganized with a main section displaying the featured content and recent updates/articles, and a sidebar could be used to list popular topics. As it is, the main page is really just 5 boxes. Some wikis even have featured users, images, etc. Gangsterls 23:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm a new user here, but I'm a sysop and experienced editor on the RuneScape Wiki. If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at the RuneScape Wiki main page. Gangsterls 23:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You mean kind of like Wikipedia itself homepage? Yeah, I guess we could do that...but we really don't have "featured content" here, to be honest. Anything like new content (Halloween for instance) is already popular and visited enough. Other than those things that ANet makes we don't really have any perennially popular pages or images that merit featuring...Also I actually enjoy our Mainpage, it is very clean and navigable, a good first impression for the rest of the Wiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Petition?
I'm starting up a petition to get the new, improved GuildWiki:Humor onto the main page of wiki, so it can be easy to find the humor section. Before i added the new GuildWiki:Humor, you couldnt even search for Category:GuildWiki Humor, all it came up with was firestorm. the Category will stay, for a reference against vandalism, since Categories cant be vandalised easily. Will design the Petition Table later. to see the new humor section, go to Humor. --<font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk) (Contr.) 16:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Geez, where did you find all those? That category was empty a few days ago... Also, I support Entropy when she said that having a link to the... flavorful section from the main page is probably a bad idea. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png]] <font color="#4682b4"> Entrea Sumatae 05:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, maybe you weren't searching right, but I could always get to the Category: with a search. It wasn't empty, either, just...dusty.
 * I'll restate my opinion, that even with a "Cleaned Up" humor section, it's not the sort of thing that really belongs on the Mainpage or anywhere else equally prominent. It's just not that important. Certainly there is some side-splittingly funny stuff in there that should be shared, so I would agree that it needs better accessibility. However, I just don't think the way to do that is by putting it somewhere like the Mainpage. I think the best that could be done would be a redirect link Humor (easily searchable) and then spreading the knowledge by word of mouth to new users and the currently active ones who don't know of it.
 * Humor isn't official, I guess is what I'm trying to say. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:04, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Any way we can change the header?
FuryWiki is now just a place where vandalism can run wild due to the merge. I believe it should be removed from the header. Cress Arvein 02:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OK. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I'm only allowed to edit the sidebar, I think only Gravewit or Wikia can change the links up there...that's part of the Gamewikis site itself, not GW stuff. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Sandbox
could we add a link to the sandbox in the "We are currently maintaining _____ articles and we could use your help" box? 22:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's already linked to in every edit you make, "For testing, please use the Sandbox instead." Though I guess since no one reads that, a link on the main page would be good also. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

BMP
Can we add something about the Bonus Mission Pack? --Macros 15:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

'for first time players'
The Pre-Searing Guide is NOT intended for first time players. I've edited the Main Page/editcopy page to point to the Getting started (Prophecies) article instead.
 * Nice catch, thanks. I've changed the Main Page to the correct article now.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 23:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Wow, what a blatant blunder. That guide really needs to be expanded. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:55, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: Rounded boxes for Mozilla users
I just love the clean appearance of the mainpage, and I'm just proposing these rounded borders to lessen the austere aspect of the page. The change will only apply to Mozilla users. What's your opinion? - Chuzzzzz 6 December 2007
 * Why only for FireFox users? Kinda discriminates anyone using IE or anything else.. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Talk ) (<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Contr. ) 18:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, IE sucks so it can be ignored :P Lord of all tyria 18:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * AoL ftw? --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Talk ) (<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Contr. ) 18:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It just can't work on IE, unless you make major changes to the .css files, and I think it is not worth the job. ;) -- Chuzzzzz 19:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I like. <B>RT </B>| Talk 19:02, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't. I prefer them square, because they seem to lack antialiasing and, because of that, are ugly. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 21:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Getting Started: EOTN
I don't think this is needed. EOTN is an expansion, there are no players there who do not know how to play. It is not needed on the main page. Dr <font color="FF5500">ag <font color="FFAA00">nm <font color="FFFF00">n  talk  19:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not how to play, but what to do in EotN--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 19:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm... "follow the primary quests"? "First time players" is meant to refer to ppl completely new to GuildWars. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Weapon Picture Idea
I was designing a guild cape before and I noticed you can zoom in a lot while editing the cape. It also shows the weapon set you are currently weilding. Using this you could get semi-high resolution shots of weapons. Just go nude before talking to the registrar so armor doesnt distract from the weapon, and if the cape is distracting just make it black and white with no emblem. How plausible of an idea is this? Linkforlife 22:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

how do you find a deleted page?
how do you find something that got deleted like a week ago? User:Jagre 02:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can't actually find a deleted page. However, you can find a record of a page to see if it has ever been deleted by using the log and entering the article name. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 02:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Special:Logs and check "Deletions" only. You could also ask an admin to retrieve the page for you if you know the name. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Wintersday 2007
add a link...? -{[ <font color="Black">PUL ]}- 21:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not out yet. Wait for the event to appear in-game. Cress Arvein(Talk) 01:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The event is here. Why isnt there a link?

PvXwiki down?
It hasnt been working for me since about 2 days ago, can anyone else access it?
 * Works for me, though is massively slow --Gimmethegepgun 01:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, its just slow. They're changing their servers next week or so. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3"> Shadow crest   01:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

GW.com news
link on main page no longer leads to the news page - it has a redirect to troll template - news page seems to have been moved but the link not updated??!! Confused!

Can anyone clear this up?
 * Sorry, we had a recent mass vandalism attack on this wiki, and no admins were on. We are currently trying to fix this problem. It should be all fine in an hour or so.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 19:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

OK I thought it would be something like that - thanks and good luck!!!

Wintersday
Can we add a link to the Wintersday 2007 page on the "What's New" section of the Main Page? Such links are really useful for the community. --Alphastream 18:36, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

GW2 wiki link
Excellent job adding a link to an empty wiki to the "What's new?" section. Maybe it should have gotten a link when there is something in the wiki, after all no one wanted the GW:EN link until they were about to release the preview. Why not put up a GW3 link too? We have about as many facts about it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.184.241.144 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:30, December 23, 2007 (CDT).
 * Yes, it was an excellent job. The new wiki is establishing its identity now (policies, guidelines, administration, etc) - for those who want to be involved with that, they need to get involved in the discussions taking place on it now.  Waiting until later results in a much harder effort to make changes.  For those who want to be involved, the link is a valuable tool to let them know that the formative stages of the wiki are starting now. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:05, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What Barek just said is exactly the reason I put the link there. If you don't want it, then don't use it.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 20:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Any admins here, please make a note somewhere next to the GW2W link that GW2W only contains info about GW2 and also, it can't be copied from GuildWiki, only GWW, as a lot of stuff has been copied here and only pertains to GW1, making extra work for everyone on GW2W. Thanks, Calor 18:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a little much to put on the main page? how about working up a brief separate page to link to? &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 19:11, 24 December 2007 (UTC)