User talk:Entropy/Archive 2

THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE AND SHOULD NOT BE EDITED

From February 4 to February 26.

N/Mo Bloodlust
Please exercise more wisdom in dealing with new contributors. If you just browse through the "diffs" of the build you'll see a new user having great difficulty editing the page. He's obviously saving every edit he makes. His build was obviously not ready for voting. You and the others exercised Wiki-bullying. Please do not drive people away with such behavior. I know if this happened to me on my first post here, I would not have been around much longer. --Karlos 06:33, 4 February 2007 (CST)

You should see this. GWiki is Elitist
, :), &mdash;Blastedt&mdash; 17:42, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Oh, I was chatting to Auron yesterday, I know already. Thanks for the photo to remind me, though. ;) Entropy 17:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * I posted it in drifters talk too :) &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 17:46, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Hah that's great! --Lania Elderfire 21:02, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Templates
We need a new template along the lines of "this skill is overpowered and badly in need of a nerf", there's a few skills that should really be thrown on... *cough* Stoneflesh *cough* --Gimmethegepgun 08:41, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * Stoneflesh Aura is just an way of casting Shielding Hands, only is 2x the reduction, 2x the duration, and removes crits from happening, but is 8x casting time and 2x the energy cost, and only affects caster.  Overall I think it is balanced.  Pain when it gets cast, but easily interrupted.  Ele's need some lovin too!  Queen Schmuck 18:40, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * The problem with it is the 2x reduction part. To heck with 55 builds which take 5 damage each time and regen it all back, this makes you take 0 when combined with Armor of Earth and you have 500 or so health, and combined with Mystic Regen gives you... AoE+Regen+Attune+Stoneflesh+Aura of Restoration=5*3=15 regen, making you not only take almost no damage from anything but require a massive amount of degen just to make it balance out. Another problem is that unlike shielding hands, it can be kept up indefinitely, whereas shielding hands cannot (unless max DF/Prot with enchanting mod and Blessed Aura can manage) --Gimmethegepgun 14:49, 9 February 2007 (CST)

Need you to EMail me entropy
defalen@gmail.com -Shinra


 * ps, im not logged in cuz this isnt my computer*

Your presence is requested
You are needed on this page. Queen Schmuck 02:00, 15 February 2007 (CST)

The LAME template and the Improvement template
To all readers: these templates have been redone and revised. They are no longer under the old URLs. Please head over to my Templates page for further details! I'll be going around and fixing all the currently used templates to match the new ones. Thanks! Entropy 11:44, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Adding "|skill" after all references to the 1 variable, as in " ", will allow the template to be used without any arguments.  This will default an empty 1 variable to "skill" (or whatever you choose).  This might make this a little more user-friendly to those not really knowing how to use it.  See below for this version of your template (might want to delete them after viewing to save room on talk page).  Queen Schmuck 14:10, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Thanks QS, I changed the template per your suggestions. Also...I know what Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right is! That's a famous code! ^^ Entropy 22:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)

If you want a big list of needed skill buffs, just look at my wishlist page. It's fairly long and it's still not done. --8765 14:18, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Aight, but I'm not out there to make a comprehensive list...I like to spend my Wiki time on things other than tagging lots and lots of skills. Only the ones that I really really care about I tag :) I'll look over it anyways though, maybe I'll find something interesting. Entropy 22:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Userbox
I'm going to hijack 2 of your userboxes. Don't worry, I'll leave a ransom note (aka crediting). --8765 14:27, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * No problem, that's why they're there. I'm happy that people like to borrow my userboxes. :) Entropy 22:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Humor template
Could you check out this template I made for Humor skills and maybe add to your templates page? Would make it easier for people to make these skills. Thanks --Gimmethegepgun 15:18, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * I added the Catagory:GuildWiki humor to your template, and also added a tag for "image", to change the skill icon if you want. If "image" is not defined, it reverts to "name" for the skill icon, just like before.  I think this will help with red links on people's pages, and also keep people from making dup skill icons that just have different personalized names.  Check out my sandbox for details. Sandbox changed to something else.  Queen Schmuck 15:43, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Thanks. Was my first template creation so I didn't really know how to do anything, just improvised off what I saw :P --Gimmethegepgun 15:45, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * I just noticed your template already had an optional "icon" argument, so my update was not needed. "icon" does the same as my (now removed) "image" did.  Before, if "icon" was not defined, it used "image" unless it wasn't defined, then it used "name".  As it is now, "icon" if defined, if not, uses "name".  The template as you had it before is only different from my "current" Sandbox2, with the exception of the catagory added at the top.  Doh!  Need to look things over more thorough before I do things like this.  Queen Schmuck 15:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Heh, this template was the Skill box template without all the category additions on the top and with a few minor changes, I didn't even know it HAD an icon thing :/ --Gimmethegepgun 16:05, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Wow...I've never used the Skillbox template before so that Humor one just confuses me lots. I'll have to play with it a bit first and see if I can't make it easier to use. I know that if I had no background in coding or Wikicode I would be totally lost. Entropy 22:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Hehe
I noticed this and had to comment. That's quite a request and something I never thought I'd see :p

Also want to say I missed your KOS-MOS pic. I love Xenosaga almost as much as I love Final Fantasy. Very nice. &mdash; Gares 15:47, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * Well, I am not the only one who would want it Gares, as that talk page shows. :) Also nice to see another fan of Final Fantasy. It's my favorite of all series, RPG at least. And Xenosaga! If the PlayStation system had more games like that maybe I'd hate them less. As it is I just can't reconcile with all the other...uhm..."controversial" games that Sony has endorsed. They are a shame on the video game industry IMO, giving it a bad name it don't deserve. If that were not the case then I'd be all over it. But sadly no...sigh. I miss Xenosaga. Only got to see some of it, at a friend's house, but I was immediately hooked. Good times...
 * Btw, I really do look something like that. I have the pic because of that, not only because I like Xenosaga. And I didn't feel like hosting a real picture of me. ;) Entropy 22:53, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * "I really do look something like that." You have blue hair?  Or it is the red eyes?  Queen Schmuck 17:15, 16 February 2007 (CST)


 * Guess ;) Entropy 23:12, 16 February 2007 (CST)


 * Let's hope it's not the red eyes. :p &mdash; Gares 23:24, 16 February 2007 (CST)


 * Oh, I think I figured it out! It's either this or this.  Queen Schmuck 21:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Blah
I'm quitting Wiki for awhile until I can fix my bug issue (GuildWiki:Software_and_technical_issues/Bugs). Until then I'll be posting under my anon name, if at all...At least that way, I can SEE what the hell I'm doing! This thing is pissing me off... >< Image:Wiki_skins_bug.jpg I can't wiki like that! Entropy 02:44, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * That totally sucks. I don't really mess around with skins for that exact reason.  Have you tried Firefox?  Doom Music 14:36, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Firefox is awsome. I've also has some issued with my firewall with guildwiki for some reason... but then agian a lot of things seems to cause problems Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 14:39, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Man, after this I'm almost thinking I should swith. IE is starting to annoy me, as much as I like it and Windows! Sigh... Entropy 23:05, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Is that... IE5? :S --Beautiful Gae 22:26, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Sigtest
Testing signature icon... ]] 01:12, 17 February 2007 (CST)

01:14, 17 February 2007 (CST)

(T/C) 01:16, 17 February 2007 (CST)

Hmm, it works, but I wonder how I can get the link to Talk to work on my own talk page. :) (T/C) 01:19, 17 February 2007 (CST)


 * This is weird, it only doesn't work for your talk page... (T/C) Queen Schmuck 01:29, 17 February 2007 (CST)


 * Maybe it's because you're already "there" and so it doesn't want to post a redundant link. I will try this on other pages and see what happens. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:31, 17 February 2007 (CST)


 * Yup I was right. If you try to make a Link to something on that thing's page itself, then you just end up with bold text. I suspect this is to prevent endless redirecting errors or such. Using a [OutOfWiki] style link still seems to work, oddly enough...perhaps because that's straight html address, not Wikicoding. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * Edit conflict.
 * Just tested it on my talk page, and that is the problem. Wiki doesn't appear to show links to current page.  Queen Schmuck 01:37, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * Y'all didn't know that? -blinks- &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 19:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)

Awsome, I like your new Sig --Lania Elderfire 02:11, 18 February 2007 (CST)


 * Thank you. I made it in Microsoft Paint. 10x Zoom in ftw...can you tell what the background is? Probably not... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:18, 18 February 2007 (CST)

Your signet is hard to read, I siggest you get another one. -- SigmA 06:26, 18 February 2007 (CST)


 * I suppose you mean his signature, not signet. :D It's not hard to read at all. Pretty light background and dark text. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 16:41, 18 February 2007 (CST)


 * Coming from you, Sigm@, I'm a bit surprised...wasn't your sig all rainbow colors a little while ago? That is what I call hard to read. It hurt my eyes. >< I can make another one but I would like more imput first, what is hard to read about it? Is it the colors? The background? The letters themselves? I could make it a non-bold, non-italic text if that would help...I dun wanna change it only for you to say it's still hard to read. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:14, 18 February 2007 (CST)

I ca't read the blue letters, it is hurting my eyes when I'm concentrating to it. -- SigmA 04:20, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Are you serious? >.> What colors do you suggest, then. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:21, 19 February 2007 (CST)

You could make the pink a bit lighter, now it is a bit dark and that makes the blue hard to read. --

Hehe. More pink. ^^ Will do... (T/C) 04:28, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Ok Sigm@, I have two for you to look at. They are both brighter than my current one and probably easier to read. Take a look and tell me which one you think is better (Idk which one personally):

Thanks. (T/C) 05:16, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Actually, now I understand Sigm@s complaint as I logged in with another computer where the colors are both too dark. I don't know if it's the browser or the screen. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:12, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Aight, well, I guess I'll go ahead and upload the top one... (T/C) 15:25, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Erhm, how do you redirect a sig to your talk page?-- SigmA 14:32, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * displayed text –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:02, 19 February 2007 (CST)

What>? -- SigmA 15:02, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Example: " -- SigmA  (talk)  " gives "-- SigmA   (talk) " –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 15:10, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Whatever...-- SigmA 15:12, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Hmm...well that didn't work so well. I wonder what the problem is... (T/C) 15:45, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Testing... (T/C) 15:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Better now. -- SigmA 10:39, 20 February 2007 (CST)

boxes
LOL. Your RC-Patrol box is in 3D for me when I'm not wearing my contacts (i.e. when I have my glasses on). Something about the blue background, the black letters float on top of it. If I move my head up or down, the letters actually move up or down in the box. None of the other boxes do that, just that one. Nothing bad, and I'm not asking you to change it. I just realized it and thought it was hilarious. :P That's what I get for being on the wiki at 3:30 am. --Rainith 06:25, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Hehe, cool. I just thought of that as well, red+blue is after all the colors they use for 3D effects. I dun wear contacts or such when using the comp, maybe I'll try it out and see what happens... perhaps I can boast of having the only 3D userbox on GWiki. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:31, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Forget what Rainith said. I've told him about using medicinal marijuana. Glaucoma he says....yeah.... lol &mdash; Gares 07:16, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * I support the use of medical marijuana... >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:31, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * I support the use of legal drugs, especially if I have stock in the companies that make them. :P  --Rainith 07:33, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * I don't own stock and I've never done drugs, alcohol, smoking, or...well...anything. But there's a fine line between upholding the law and ending human misery. I think there is just some point where the law can't take into account the amount of pain and suffering some people go through, because/related to those things. Medical marijuana is one of the more politicized debates. On that one, having heard stories of people who were legitimately suffering...cancer, surgery, what have you - I am inclined to err on the side of lawlessness. It just seems cruel. Laws are supposed to help make society stronger and keep order. I think the amount of trouble laws go to, sometimes, just to prove a concept or keep conformity is totally unnecessary... but, I'm rambling, and I'm not up for a big debate at 5:00 AM. Hehe. ;) As long as you stay in school it's probably okay for you... ^^[[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:38, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Just click on the link. ;)  Or go to the web site.  Although with it being 5 am for you (oh and me too) you might not get it immediately.  I wasn't trying to turn the discussion serious.  :)  --Rainith 07:42, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * You morning people. I get up at 6am and I have no idea where I'm at for at least 5 minutes. I'm all for helping people with their medical problems, using whatever is necessary. I think know where you are coming, Entropy, from when you say, "I am inclined to err on the side of lawlessness. It just seems cruel." The government would rather see people suffer and squeeze out every little bit that they can, even if that person is in pain and is just ready to let go. It's inhumane, but risking imprisonment, there is not much you can do, but comfort them and hope for the best.


 * @Rainith, I don't think I am ready for Havidol yet, just give me some Havidsum. ;) &mdash; Gares 10:20, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * I absolutely love the "side effects" of havidol :P ". Side effects may include mood changes, muscle strain, extraordinary thinking, dermal gloss, impulsivity induced consumption, excessive salivation, hair growth, markedly delayed sexual climax, inter-species communication, taste perversion, terminal smile, and oral inflammation. Very rarely users may experience a need to change physicians." –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:24, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Ask your doctor today... -.- [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:25, 19 February 2007 (CST)

What do you think of Eremite's Attack or Victorious Sweep? AmericanVlad 09:18, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * And do you think I should take it back to stub-stage for a while longer? [[Image:Vow of Strength.jpg|20px]] AmericanVlad 13:23, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Hmm. I'm a big fan of Eremite's Attack. As long as you have enough enemies on you, it can reach extraordinary damage (100+) and it has 1/4 activation time, so you attack faster...and it's pretty spammable. Also you don't lose an Enchantment. Victorious Sweep is also very good. It deals unconditional damage and it may even heal you +150 health to boot. It would work well in your build imo, because then you've got more than one way to regain health that doesn't rely on enchants...since you will probably be higher health than opponents anyways (except for really late PvE) you will probably always get the bonus. As to stubbing...well, I dunno, if you do that it tosses out the R-a-b and I'm not sure if it is a stub article, it seems fairly complete. However you can do whatever you want, so go for it. (T/C) 15:29, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Im gunna put Eremite's Attack in there and alter the usage to fit, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to move it back to stub-stage, unless you really object to it. AmericanVlad 15:58, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * I did all that and I'm hoping you could re-vote because it hit 3 unfavoreds and got put on the unfavored list. If you re-voted, it would take it off the list. I know of some other people who are testing it, so hopefully it will get onto favored O.o ... [[Image:Vow of Strength.jpg|20px]] AmericanVlad 17:17, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Well, it would help if I knew where the build is meant to be used... (T/C) 17:21, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Oh hah yeah it is meant for farming some bosses and farming creatures like the Grawls in Talus Chute that drop The Ice Breaker, ettins, things like that. I guess you could even use it in FoW or UW, although I haven't tested it there. AmericanVlad 17:49, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Ok...I know it would work against simple meleemobs like Grawls, Trolls, and Minotaurs. I dunno about bosses, since their natural health regeneration would seem to drag out the battle veeeery long. FoW or UW I wouldn't, not terribly team-friendly, and I don't think it could stand up to Abyssals or Aatxes. :P Still I guess I might as well revote since it's not for PvP...and works alright for PvE tank... don't expect much from other people who already voted though. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:53, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Yeah I forgot about the natural hp regen on bosses, and if in FoW and UW you went with maybe 2 more of these guys and a Smiter/Healer It could make an OK team. And yeah, I don't expect them to change their minds either. AmericanVlad 18:16, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Sigma and etc
I'm exclusively talking to you on Gares' page, so if you want to debate anything, please, be my guest, I respect your opinion and contributions. But I'm really trying hard not to talk to him directly, I know its too tempting to argue back and forth and end up with an even bigger ban. My issue is simple, I received an "official warning" over something completely insignificant, which later led to a one-day ban. Why shouldn't Sigma? If saying bad things about other users on your user page is ok, I want to know that, cause I'll be spending all day putting things up there :)) Now, seriously, this isn't a real beef with Sigma (though I do dislike his votes) or with the vetting procedure. It is flawed, but I don't know how to fix it. It's kinda like what they say about democracy, it's the worse system, except for all the others? I'm not really that bitter, between you and me, I won't really scour the entire GWiki for offenders. But... if I ever stumble upon one? Yeah, I'll spend those 30 seconds to do someth about it :) NightAngel 15:03, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * Well, considering that Skuld used to have a section on his page titled "Hitlist" and that one of his New Year's resolutions was "Assassinate LordBiro", I think it's safe to say you can put whatever you want on your page...pretty much. Or see User:Kamahl the Fist. Or Rapta (and many others) have a section titled "Builds that don't belong in tested". Or....well, you get the point. Sigm@'s one tiny comment, that the Unfavored votes were "idiotic", is hardly anything at all, both in magnitite and occurance. It is not unique nor do I find it particularly insulting... I can understand why you would be upset over a ban on a remark like that. But consider that others have been banned for seemingly similar small transgressions. For example TheDrifter gets a warning saying "Today is a good day" after Skuld gets demoted, and subsequently he gets banned for defending himself. I don't like him but his ban was probably unwarranted or at the least, slightly unfair. You comment, Jeezuz, are you friggin' insane?! could be seen both ways - as a sarcastic one, as a frustrated one, or as an actual insult. I am inclined to think Gares or whoever thought it was an insult. Remember that it is the feeling of the receiving party that also plays a big role in determining "insult" from "joke" or whatnot... So yeah. Maybe it was completely insignificant to you, but if the comment offended someone than GW:GARES decrees you have to suffer some punitive action, even if you think it's unwarranted. It's Wiki justice. Now, if the parties concerned went to you afterwards and apologized for getting you banned, and also said they didn't mind, that would be a different matter. But I guess that's not what happened?


 * The GuildWiki vetting policy is broken, we know that. I just try to work with it...and around it...and in it. Do the best you can with what you have. I dun think anything else is sound policy. Some people say Screw the builds section, and that's the defeatist response...some people get real involved and try to "police" the buildsection, and that's unrealistic vigilante justice. Some folks keep trying and never give up, like Defiant Elements - they keep on posting builds and voting. That's what I try to do...that's what you try to do also, I guess. But I guess you lose your temper more easily. ;) Remember what they say...arguing on the Internet is...oh you've already heard that? Well damn. I guess I can quote another thing instead. "Do you really think the Earth gives a damn about your stupid argument? It still turns on its axis, doesn't it? Wake up and realize what's truly important in life." Yeah I'm a hypocrite by that standard, but it's idealistic and that's always nice...the world won't end if a good build gets unfavored or vice versa.


 * As to heckling those offenders: All I can say is, keep it to the point and keep it relevant. I think it was not right to bring the matter to Gares' attention like you did, because there is no reason for Gares to get involved, not really...Sigm@ didn't break any policy, did not insult you (not really), and doesn't deserve to be spotlighted so. I think it would have been better for you to bring it to Sigm@'s talk page, where it would be most relevant. It is a "beef" between you and him mostly, a personal disagreement. So, keep it like that, between the only parties involved...don't bring it to Gares' page, which btw is read by many such as myself. Same for all other admins. It's like when someone posts on Barek's page about unfair Rapta votes. It's like, wtf? Take it up with Rapta and Rapta alone. Or even better, bring it to the build discussion page. Keep it relevant, don't involve more people than necessary. More drama on the wiki is not a good thing, usually... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:03, 20 February 2007 (CST)

THe reason I take it to Gares is that HE was the one who warned and subsequently banned me, so he's the one who should enforce his strict policies on the entire wiki. And Sigma's comment was worse than that, it was "Some idiots unfavored it.". He offended the users directly. It's a clear and blatant violation of the policy GARES wrote. So I think he's precisely the right guy to take it to. And yes, endless arguments are a pain and useless drama, which is exactly why I'm not directing another word towards Sigma. My comment was on the frustrated side, for sure. I mean, a necro with soul reaping 13 and people were talking about "energy management" to justify votes. Of course there is something called sense of humor, I'm not a total nutcase yet, but come on, "some idiots unfavores it" is clearly an angry insult that has NOTHING funny about it, while "Assassinate Lord Biro" on Skuld's page I can pretty much understand as a joke, especially if he's known Biro for some time. Ps: and come on, if he really thought it was a perfectly ok thing to do, why delete it? NightAngel 16:14, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * NightAngel says "I'm not bitter" :P Seriously tho, it is kind of taking skeletons out of the closet and throwing them at Sigm@/Gares just because you didn't like your (short) ban...I was not much offended by Sigm@'s comment, I dun know any other voters who were either. GW:GARES is up to Gares interpretation only, not yourses... I see where you're coming from but I disagree on principle. Sorry.
 * To your comment I can understand the frustration but I think maybe you overreacred, or you could have used less harsh language...I was banned once for calling folks bastards and telling them to goto hell. Yours is bit worse than that, maybe... I disagree that Sigm@'s comment is "clearly an angry insult". He's only 16, don't you remember when you were young NightAngel? :) We say people are idiots whenever we disagree with them..."idiot" is not exactly an angry outburst or a really high insult.
 * As to "deleting it" you are taking things out of context. Did you fail to notice Sigm@ has also deleted many other parts of the page? Many were not related at all to builds section. I don't think it's fair to prosecute someone based on situational evidence "removed it from userpage, must be guilty". I jus don't buy it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:33, 20 February 2007 (CST)

His removal is not evidence of the insult or of wrongdoing, it's evidence that HE himself thought it was wrong, that's all. And really, I'm all for using common sense and being reasonable, but that's not how I was treated, why should anyone else be? Even in the heat of the argument against Drifter, I called him petty, resentful, and that's pretty much it. And I get a slap in the face? Then go ahead and slap everyone else darn it. Everyone. And I was never a rebellious and angry teenager, it took a lot of imbeciles to build up a cynical point of view. I hadn't met quite that many yet :) Anyway, Gares made a policy. Enforce it or abandon it. Choosing when (to whom) is bad, and if that's what's going on, it's certainly something worth fighting. I don't care about Sigma's punishing per se. I didn't vote on that build, in fact, so that comment doesn't really concern me, but if he shouldn't be punished because it's ok to lash out once in a while, I want Gares to say that loud and clear, because I'll quote him. Treat me with kindness and common sense and I'll treat everybody else that way. Lastly, your comment about taking the voting thing to Sigma? Check out his talk page. He doesn't dignify people with an answer, because he clearly thinks they are all beneath his vast experience and knowledge. That's not someone worth defending too much.... NightAngel 17:54, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * I'll post this here, as there seems to be some confusion with my actions and some other things I would like to point out, then I will move on to my talk.


 * NightAngel did not get banned for his comments on a build talk page regarding erg management, he was banned for fighting with TheDrifter on . If I was strict in my interpetation of the policy, bans would have been placed the first time I noticed NightAngel and TheDrifter trading remarks on a different talk page. Immediately after NightAngel's ban, he erased all his disparaging remarks from the Order of Undeath talk page, though Barek reverted NightAngel's deletions.


 * There is NightAngel's two-edged sword. NightAngel states, "...if he really thought it was a perfectly ok thing to do, why delete it?" Trying to push the point that deleting a remark is an absolute admission of guilt cannot apply to this situation, unless NightAngel, himself, admits he was in the wrong. In which case he should not bear any bad feelings towards the ban placed on him. No one can have it both ways.


 * Also, I never wrote GW:NPA, though my Actions for Abuse was the catalyst that prompted Barek into porting it over from Wikipedia and it was modified to fit this wiki.


 * I hope that clears up some confusion and misinformation and we can save Entropy the excitement of seeing the "new messages" everytime she returns to the wiki. &mdash; Gares 18:07, 20 February 2007 (CST)

I'll stop polluting your talk page, Entropy, he's right. And just a quick reproduction of what I said to gares: of course I think arguing with the drifter was wrong. I disagree with the ban. I also disagree with the warning on the "insane" comment. No two-edged sword there, I think neither me NOR sigma should be punished, but what I think is irrelevant, I'm not an administrator. NightAngel 18:33, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Vengeful
Thought id give it a try to put Reversal of Fortune in that similar list because ally is healed even though the life steal of Vengeful Wep, ally is generally healed...Both Spells Are ended once the ally takes dmg, one thing which i clearly mentioned was that they are not similar, but i guess noone saw that listed... I was'nt intending it to say anyways like i said id give it a try, my own thoughts, but whatever keeps you/g-wiki happy is allllll good.


 * I am just acting on past precedent. Don't take it personally. Here is an analysis:

Vengeful Weapon
 * Doesn't prevent any damage
 * Does lifestealing, ie. it damages your foes
 * Weapon spell
 * Unconditional health gain (can't be removed)

Reversal of Fortune
 * Prevents some damage
 * Heals you, not life stealing
 * Doesn't affect foes' health
 * Enchantment
 * Doesn't do anything if removed

They are sufficiently different that they should not be listed as separate skills. A closer match would be Reversal of Damage, but I don't think that would work either. Of course, Reversal of Fortune and Reversal of Damage are listed as related. (T/C) 16:38, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Well i never really looked into those skills that much to realze that althought i had know what each skill did, sorry to post those as related next time ill check the skills out more.

It's fine. We're just kind of picky here at GWiki about related skills, as you can see. ;) (T/C) 16:44, 20 February 2007 (CST)

Leah Stone
Not that it's dealing with the same update but what's wrong with Leah Stone? I've never had a problem with her.--  Vallen Frostweaver  15:32, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * She always insists on backtracking on the path...she follows up the stairs, but instead of going straight and heading into the small "depression" and out the fortress, she always makes a right turn and walks backwards to the bridge where you started out under...it is incredibly annoying and takes like 10 minutes of waiting for her to walk all the way down, turn around, and come back, and then walk the right way. And on top of that she is s l o w in the fortress. Even when she gets running outside, you can catch up when holding a bundle. I know it's not a bug but it's just stupid and a waste of time...makes that bonus one of the most frustrating in the game because it requires patience! patience! It's not hard to clear out enemies so the way is clear...it's hard to sit around waiting and following a slow NPC! That's why I think she should be fixed up... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:43, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Wow, you have too much energy. I've helped others with this before and all it takes is one person to follow her around after that with a speed boost to catch back up with the main group when she's done (best started when you have cleared the fort path and the rest of the group starts clearing the outside path one heads back to get her).  Then your entire group isn't following her everywhere.  Once out of the castle you can leave her alone too (assuming you cleared the way).  Besides, the poor thing is almost disappearing as it is and I think she does pretty good for a spirit that's fading away.  A little different planning and you don't have to wait for her at all which will fit better with your impatience I would think.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  15:56, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Not true Vallen. I've cleared the path - or rather, cleared most of the map, unleashed Leah, and waited for an hour. She never reaches the bonus by herself. You need to have at least one person follow her. I always, always do this mission with henchmen because it's so easy...so I am the only one who can follow. >< With that sort of situation you really can't do anything but wait around. I could let her go, take out the last two Mursaat bosses, come back, and she'd still be inside the fortress. It just makes me frustrated... As far as I can see there is no better plan, unless you'd care to elaborate? And I don't think a 30-minute wait counts as being impatient. I go to great lengths in other missions to ensure safety and survival over expediency...but in this one a 30-minute wait and escort is just asking a bit much. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:14, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * In my above post I said to leave someone with her until she leaves the fort, otherwise, yes, she will disappear. If you are doing it with just henchies/heroes, then yes, you'll have to be patient, but why not just bring along 1 other human player then?  That way you can split up to avoid the delay.  Clear the path in the fort.  1 person goes to get her while the other takes the group to clear the outside path to the grassy knoll.  By the time she's outside of the fort the team has cleared it's way back through the fort doors and both team and escort person can meet up safely to progress with the mission knowing Leah can walk to the knoll - once outside of the fort - by herself.  That's all.  Regrettably the hench/hero method requires patience as you can't assign a hero/hench to follow someone.  To avoid waiting you can clear the enemies out near her then start her walking and clear the rest of her path while she's walking but you have to make sure she doesn't die or get ahead of your path clearing.  It makes for more of a challenge but should save you lots of time clearing the path then waiting for her to walk it.  Besides, that's the original way it was meant to happen before others mapped/memorized her path.  I do sympathize with you though as I've gone the route of patience before, though I'm more inclined for speed these days.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:41, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Yes But. I'm saying I've tried and it's a no-go. I get her outside the fort, she starts running, and I sit for an hour. Bonus never comes up. Something happens along the way and she automagically disappears if you don't follow all the time. That is my experience...
 * I don't like human players. Simple as that. They mess up the mission. They forgive needless and stupid deaths that lead to ever-mounting DP. They run dumb builds. They work ineffectively with henchmen. I'm a better player than a lot of them ><. I dun wanna hire someone just to follow Leah for me...
 * I don't think that's the "original" way, I would always clear out the whole map before letting her free...same as I do on any mission or quest with vulnerable NPC.
 * Lastly, it's Factions syndrome - the need for speed...it gets to me. I really enjoy the way Missions work in Prophecies, no time limit (usually)...I can do whatever I want and no pressure. But this particular bonus, it just seems like a lot of needless waiting around, and it seems like it would be very easy to fix. So I'm impatient. >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:47, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Have you met Kormir in the Mangara Fortress mission? I was distracted and only noticed something was wrong when I got to the ship that takes you away and nothing happened. I stood there looking silly and then figured... ooh. had to go all the way back to the prison. Of course, she has the excuse of having had her eyes gouged out by demons NightAngel 07:55, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * What does that have to do with Leah Stone? >.> Oh...right...patience. That's different, part of the primary mission and not the bonus... Blindness is not an excuse! Ritualists are all blind, do you see them complaining?! ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:01, 21 February 2007 (CST)

I thought you were talking about annoying NPCs with poor navigation skills :) NightAngel 08:15, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * Close enough, but I'm primarily annoyed with Leah Stone because...well, I don't need to repeat it, it's all above thanks to Vallen. But yeah, ANet could take some more thought into account sometimes, about NPC navigational skills. Especially uber-important ones that cause you to fail when they die. Like...umm...Reapers in UW or Eternals in FoW. >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:19, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well my only other suggestion to speed things up is to clear the enemies as she's walking slightly behind you (dangerous I know). That should decrease the time a little bit since you won't have to back track to get her.  Otherwise, I have nothing for ya.  Sorry.  :(  I've always had a lot of fun with other players on that mission since it has several areas where you have to wait (taking out the forces on the wall before entering the fort and Leah's problem to name a couple).  I find it helps to pass the time faster and the option to split the team helps too.  Sorry to hear you have such problems with PuGs but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that they speed up Leah a bit or at least correct her path to a more direct route rather than that back tracking.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  10:41, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Wouldn't work, Leah will stop and fight anything, even the immobile, useless Jade Armor that the Mursaat Monks have to "turn on". Also there are roving patrols of Mahgo Hydra and Flesh Golem...not to mention some spawns on the route take quite a while to deal with. For example, once you get to "the island", those Crag Behemoths are annoying. They have Barrage and deal pretty nice damage. There's an Eidolon there with Mist Form. There are two Wurm, and those are always a pain... etc. So yeah, the only safe and effective way with hench is to wait. :'(
 * I dunno what you mean about waiting in the mission...other than Leah, you can go full speed ahead the entire time. Waiting and sniping enemies on the wall (first part) is useless, and just wastes the Chimera of Intensity boost...the trick for getting into the fortress, is that you need to take out the Jades first and foremost. Else they'll destroy your healers while you take on the Mursaat Elementalists and Mesmers and Necromancers...that's what I have always found, at least. It's not quite the same for a PUG because they've got access to better skillbars or other professions than the hench and heroes do...but still it's same general strategy. But I'll still avoid PUGs from Southern Shiverpeaks onwards, just because I can do the missions flawlessly with AI all the time...anything before that it doesn't matter so much and the missions don't require so much coordination, so I'm not so anti-PUG there. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:04, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * My apologies for not describing my strategies in a manner I think is being understood as intended. I've tried many of them myself and had no troubles before if the timing is done right.  I see your point though and wish you luck in the future.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  07:23, 22 February 2007 (CST)

User Boks

 * Lol. Everyone does seem to think she's a guy, so I think everyone should have that userbox :)--Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 00:59, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Hehe. Maybe it's because I argue too much with people...or because I use big words...or because I have a short temper... ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:04, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Takin it :P--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 19:37, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * I thought that was a woman's trait O_o... LOL--Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 20:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Template
I *could* use the build template.. but where't eh fun in that, Having it like that makes sure I don't forget anything :P --Dazra 19:44, 23 February 2007 (CST)