Talk:Game updates/Archive19

Gief Updaet
Is it gonna be today? It's late Thursday here. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.158.101.144 (contribs).


 * It's only noon on a Thursday at A.Net HQ, so if it's coming, it might not be for a little while. Sometimes it shows up late or early, or not at all, just to note. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  20:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Linsey's journal said there'd be one this week, so it's coming.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 20:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * ARG!! Update Need I!Wont last long...Durga Dido 20:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What will the update bring anyways? Will it sport some rebalancing? I hope so, VoR, WS, WoH and BA start to piss me off.


 * Most people just want the update so they can getz-keys. 75.92.46.118 22:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * need moar updatez!!! - Rabus 22:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Most people just want the update so they can getz-keys. how so?? what does it change?


 * Well according to Lindsey they have been very busy over there at Anet with this update. (People still use BA?!)Durga Dido 23:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You must not RA much...turret is very popular still mostly because of the lack of viable bow elites and that they just keep buffing BA into orbit. VoR can be pretty damn nasty...WoH is only a pain in the ass because the monks immediately drop into low spec 75% block stances...dervs are meh.  They need to address hexway and the current sin meta which is as annoying as ever.  98.219.48.111 00:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Other than the BB Sin, Sins are pretty much dead in PvP, tbh. They need buffs and less fragile chains. ــѕт.  мıкε  01:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * WoH is only a pain in the ass because the monks immediately drop into low spec 75% block stances Heh. That's when you hit them with Defile Defenses and/or nail 'em with Glass ArrowsOBloodyHell 20:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Update is here.(edit check dev updates)Durga Dido 01:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's Over 300!! (files that is)...So where the hell's the patch notes? --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]

(eats indent) Wow... just, wow... King Neoterikos 02:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit: |NvM, I'm an Idjit ...Also: Holy cow, it's HUGE son --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]
 * All updated and pretty for you all :P -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Isk8   (T/C) 02:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I gotta say... I love the new instant minion army... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Palm Strike's added snare makes its aftercast less of an issue. You could probably make a solid pressure sin with Palm Strike and a handful of dual attacks.  I foresee this getting nerfed at a speed slightly slower than the near light-speed nerf of Way of the Assassin. Lazuli  03:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Annnd another update. Wonder what got nerfed :P [[Image:ParAmSIG.jpg]](T/C) 03:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The Giganto Update
Well, a nice "quick" analysis of some of the things here: PvE changes: Yep. "Quick" indeed, took half an hour to write this motherfucker. And what the fuck? Motherfucker is IN the FF dictionary! --Gimmethegepgun 03:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mark of Insecurity: awesome now
 * Palm Strike: RIDICULOUS now
 * Seeping Wound: pretty nice now, though some Vermin farmers are gonna be angry (ZOHNOES!)
 * Wastrel's Collapse: FINALLY it's a viable skill, and in fact it looks pretty nice to me! I actually COMMEND Izzy for THIS one! (the apocalypse is coming!)
 * Reaper's Sweep: a decent buff, notable lack of WS nerf though
 * Blinding Surge: oh wtf now it doesn't even need them to be enchanted to blind everything next to them? Come on. At least the duration went down though
 * Double Dragon: pretty decent looking, the huge Fire Magic boost isn't THAT horrible since you can't use a different elite because of that
 * Energy Boon: huh, interesting. Is it an instant-casting enchantment or a skill?
 * Ether Prism: well, the name doesn't make any sense now. And instant casting enchantment? the hell? And PLEASE tell me they increased the recharge and forgot to note it, otherwise we're gonna see Dervs running around completely invincible in the near future using Extend Enchantments . Well, it seems they THANKFULLY increased the recharge to 15, so there'll be none of that. Good spike stopper I guess, and decent energy gain, but not really worthy of elite status IMO
 * Fevered Dreams: oooh daze! Not bad
 * Power Leach: wow that energy steal value is RETARDEDLY high, it's like Shame mixed with Guilt, but without the skill failure or the ENDING
 * Recurring Insecurity: Well, looks like Soul Barbs spiking is over, though I think that Soul Barbs + RI + Drain Delusions + Shatter Delusions may become popular, that could be pretty nasty! Also great cover hex if you get it on top, they remove it and it'll come right back!
 * Shared Burden: Nearby range for all that? ouch
 * Symbols of Inspiration: That could turn out interesting, though still pretty unreliable
 * Boon Signet: Far underpowered IMO
 * Life Sheath: so it's RoF except elite with condition removal. Rather use Weapon of Remedy honestly
 * PnH: YOWZA! It's actually good! Though a question: why does it disable your Smiting Prayers?
 * Ray of Judgment: So, it's an elite Holy Wrath. SUCK! I mean, yeah, it hurts, but seriously it's a PBAoEDoT. When are those EVER good?
 * AotL: wow, instant mega army, and probably full energy if you're in PvE (minion overload, massive energy for any necro in range) and then +1 DM as a topping. Nerf imminent
 * Cultist's Fervor: now THIS is what it should've been all along! This could see great use
 * Lingering Curse: Ouch, sucks to be the monks on the other team, eh? And now Flesh Golems are gonna be even MORE annoying. Oh joy!
 * Weaken Knees: So it's a Necro elite Shameful Fear. Yay for necromancers stealing other classes' skills!
 * "Incoming!": So... it's "Fall Back!" without the ending clause... and in Command. Whooptie-fucking-doo, the name doesn't make any sense now.
 * "It's just a flesh wound.": So the name makes ABSOLUTELY no sense in the SLIGHTEST any more, and is STILL in Motivation. At least they should get their ONE (lolz) energy back now!
 * Angelic Bond: A party-wide Divine Intervention that only triggers on one person and then dies. Boo.
 * Archer's Signet: And yet the only 2 conditions worth lengthening, Burning and Daze, are both caused by elites. It's Practiced Stance all over again, except without ONE useful combo.
 * Spike Trap: So they doubled it's power (basically) and made it harder to dodge. Annoying, better for UW trappers, kinda lame otherwise still.
 * Strike As One: Well, pretty much anything is better than what it USED to be, and this looks kinda evil. You cripple your target, the pet TELEPORTS there and then covers the cripple with bleeding. Evil.
 * Trapper's Focus: WS boost, not bad. Still kinda lame though since traps still kinda blow
 * Clamor of Souls: Decent looking staple skill. Too bad its elite.
 * Destructive Was Glaive: No more enchantment dump on end, and lasts a hell of a lot longer. THAT will probably be the staple elite of Channeling from now on since it lasts FOREVER! (Fuck off Clamor, you SUCK!)
 * Enraged Smash: MUCH less of a niche skill, might see some general use. Yay adrenaline-based hammer version of Bull's Strike (which also fuels itself, unless they neglected to say they added a recharge)
 * Hundred Blades: gogo Whirlwind Attack farming!
 * Primal Rage: Elite Frenzy with speed boost packed in. MUCH better than before.
 * Whirling Axe: So basically an adrenaline-based Wild Blow without adrenaline dump. And Elite. And uses axe rather than a certain other one that uses a spear
 * Shadow Form: Still EXACTLY as maintainable, it'll just slow people a bit since they have to recast more
 * Avatar of Grenth: no blocking vs enchanted AND lifesteal? pretty nice
 * Signet of Ghostly Might: holyshitownage
 * Signet of Spirits: Sucks for the same exact reasons Spirit Boon Strike sucks: Recharge is too long, and nothing in Channeling really needs healing (seeing how there's uhh... jack shit... for spirits in Channeling save for Bloodsong (which heals itself) and Destruction (which has loads of health anyway))


 * Quick summary for the attention-impaired: Power creep. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Silly Entropy. They nerfed Shadow Form (slightly)! This balances out everything else. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  05:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * VoR's much needed nerf comes about in the form of a buff. Power creep.  Lazuli  05:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * And WS's nerf comes in the form of a.... uh.... nothing --Gimmethegepgun 05:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well PnH kind of nerfs it too, though I don't believe it's that overpowered. I, for one, think Flesh Golems are now less annoying.  But I tend to run three enchantments on my main. Lazuli  05:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * SF isn't maintainable as an ele anymore i think.
 * Elite frenzy is good? Now you can kill yourself faster than ever.... 217.234.231.197 07:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Warriors already use Frenzy as an IAS, since it's easy to cancel it out with Rush. The downside of Frenzy (aside from the double damage and all that) is that you can't use a speed boost stance at the same time. I think for that reason alone, some people will give up their elite to bring this and maybe a blocking stance to cancel it (or just Rush again). --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  07:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For once I would like to say thanks Anet, a lot of these changes are pretty nice, the change to aura of the lich is cool (even though I liked the old one too), I would have like to see the dmg reduction in Shadow Form to be removed but o well, and I must say the elementalist changes are pretty cool too. One of your better updates, even if there are a few negative things in there :) [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 13:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you Anet for the shitty ranger updates...Scorn 17:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

What gep said, with a few extra notes:

Palm Strike: WTF?!

Seeping Wound: Uhhh... huh?! So at 12 Critical Strikes, given the preconditions are met, you deal 260 damage over time. Throw in a good combo, and bitches don't stand a chance.

Onslaught: Not bad, but possibly very exploitable.

Double Dragon: Actually worth using now, though that Fire Magic bonus could seal the casket of the unwary in very short order.

Energy Boon: Great... Just what Ele's need, more maximum energy.

Ether Prism: Spike prevention with energy bonus. Whoopee.

Fevered Dreams: A constant Epidemic, with a bit more icing on the cake.

Power Leech: Yet even more power for e-denial mesmers.

Shared Burden: GIMP-STORM.

Ray of Judgment: Might be good in PvE or against stupid minions along with its non-elite counterparts.

Aura of the Lich: CHECK PLZ.

"Incoming!": Add in "Fall Back!" for more running with health boost.

Hundred Blades: Where does Izzy live? My sledgehammer has an appointment with his face.

There's my 2⅞ cents. talk 21:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I sense some sarcasm. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And I sense cake. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 03:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Angelic Bond: A party-wide Divine Intervention that only triggers on one person and then dies. Boo. Oh, yeah? Go beat up on the Diamond Djinn in Ahdashim (in HM, natch) and tell me that. The bastards are nigh unkillable now. You can do it, but it's work.


 * Heh. Match up Seeping Wound with Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support. Hit 'em with EVSS then SW and they'll be toast even if they don't get the Head Shot.


 * lrn2sign. That is all. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 19:01, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Galrath Slash
so does this now mean it is a prophecies AND factions skill since you could cap it with signet of capture in sunjaign? 13:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No. If you cap it in F, it's disabled for use (padlocked), unless you own P. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought they'd changed that to where skills from campaigns you don't own appear locked on the SoC window and you can't capture them in the first place. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, never heard of that. I own all campaigns, so, blah. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Did someone check to see if it was a typo? It's POSSIBLE they might've given him Silverwing Slash like they were supposed to (why am I being an unrealistic optimist? That's not like me!) --Gimmethegepgun 20:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * i was there earlier to cap hundred blades on my warr, pretty sure it was Galrath slash he had and not Silverwing Slash Kurtan 22:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought about silverwing too after i posted this, I can just imagine some Anet employee with OCD 5 minutes before they launched the update "we only have 44 changes! omgomgomg, we need one more! -clicks random page wiki option- -copy & paste- -sigh-" lol [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 00:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * imo, they changed it coz tiger stance+hundred blades on a boss with double damage+X% more depending on level proved too difficult to beat in nm...in hm, coz of perma hundred blades(hm recharge reduction), auto ias, galrath slash and even higher level it must be funny lol -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]89.134.135.215 17:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You give Anet too much testing credit... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, since you do not have a talkpage: Dear IP, please, do not use skill icons as your signature. You can copy the icon and upload it under your own sig name, if you like.  Signatures are supposed to be 19px, not 20.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He actually is a registered user, but is too lazy to sign in (I think). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Still needs to upload his/her own sig image and make it x19px. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Entropy, if you happen to know who that person is, tell them the sig rules. We don't want a trail of talk links on the Practiced Stance icon. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Functionality Changed trend too high
Balancing points around a little is certainly to be expected. But changing functionality completely destroys builds that some of those who like experimenting enjoy. I'm not saying these are strong builds, I'm just saying ANet is punishing those who make up builds for the pure fun of the game. Those people should be encouraged, not punished. The trend in recent updates to have so many "functionality changes" is one that looses confidence in the company. --Mooseyfate 20:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It also messes up the Hero A.I. when they forget to change the programming, which is EXTREMELY annoying... I shouldn't have to fucking Micromanage every little use of their Elite powers b/c Anet forgot to change the ideal situations they're SUPPOSED to be using those Elites in. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]
 * My symbols of inspiration build got turned into a shitty version og sig of humulity(without disable) and arcane theivery. :( THey say they want to push alternatives, but we've got 3 mesmer elites that now focus on using opponents skills (sig of illusions, stonlen thievery, and symbols) and at lest six reg ular skills that use foes skills ( the inspiried/reveals, and arcanes). I understand they want to make more skills useable, but a little more imaginationwould be nice 76.188.100.220 21:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Why are people comparing the new Symbols of Insp with Sig of Humil? It's nothing alike, in terms of use. Sig of Humil just disables it. Symbols copies it and gives it rank x (x=FC rank). Also, Sig of Illusions isn't specifically an enemy's skills... PvE skills, secondaries.. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Generally because they're the only skills that directly relate to an opponents elite skill (not counting price of pride) 76.188.100.220 21:34, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think they are doing this to try and deal with power creep. King Neoterikos 23:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)


 * they're doing a poor job of it by only buffing, if they wanted to stop power creep they'ed stop buffing and nerf abused skills. Specifically in the case of symbols, the skill is dumb because its another way to do the same thing. 76.188.100.220 23:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not opposed to the functionality changes - they add some variety to the game and new life for some elites that comparatively speaking were not used as much. I definitely agree with ilr's post about hero AI though.  If the developers radically change a skill's functionality but forget to adjust how hero AI uses it, they've frustrated their player base and created cause for the skill to not be used, which is contrary to the goal of modifying it in the first place.  Shadowlance 01:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think it was just Izzy's time of the month and he decided to use his double-headed penny to determine which skills got changed completely. Izzy should be brought before the judges of GW and tried for his crimes.  Then again, he'd probably be drawn and quartered.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 01:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can personally say that Heroes use PnH just fine (like any other removal, they cast it at the first sign of trouble, and again whenever it's recharged). They probably don't use the new Energy Storage ones well at all, nor Enraged, etc. One thing I've been told from ANet employee is that while they do try to test things to make sure they work, that mostly involves someone going out with the skill on their bar and pressing the button. (Of course, SaO was still bugged, but...w/e) They don't really have the time or resources to test every aspect of skills: how Heroes will use them, what missions and quests will become harder, what will happen to PvP. I mean, it's obvious that PnH is supposed to be the one-stop answer to hexway, but beyond that they can't see into the future when they make changes. They just don't have that capability. (Remember the WoH buffs, and removing Forgotten Sages? Yeah.)
 * Anyway, "Functionality change" is something I usually dislike seeing, because it tends to cause more problems than it solves. I like it when they take shitty skills like Wastrel's Collapse and actually make them usable by more than one bad gimmicky build. I don't like it when these new skills become completely imba and break things (read: AotL). You can rework an elite to make it more viable, but just because it was horrible before doesn't give you free license to make it ridiculously powerful now... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * My absolute favorite thing is when Anet completely changes the function of unused skills. It breathes new life and opportunity into the game, creating entirely new gameplay possibilities. Yall should stop yer whining. Seriously. (GW-Kiron 06:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC))
 * I mean, its anets freaking game. They have the "right" to do whatever the eff they want with the skills. Its beyond generous of them to try and balance competitive play, its something we dont even deserve. They dont get paid by us with monthly subscrips for it. Some of your attitudes beat everything Ive ever seen. (GW-Kiron 06:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC))


 * Well said. King Neoterikos 06:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * QQ about the QQing more pls.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Ho ho ho.]]îğá †ħŕášħ 06:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "the one-stop answer to hexway". Yeah, now hexers will just toss Soul Barbs in there somewhere and dump RI on top of the stack and PnH becomes a death wish. Maybe throw in Fragility and a couple conditions for even more fun. And Remove Hex will also be utterly useless again since it will do absolutely NOTHING with RI on top. Except trigger Soul Barbs --Gimmethegepgun 06:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

(Gimme, that's beside the point.) Kiron, you're buying GW2, I assume? (T/C) 07:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If its a good game and I still hve time for this stuff, Ill buy it, just like the original. (GW-Kiron 14:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC))
 * Anyway, using awful builds based on crappy elites is not a good argument for keeping them, it just makes you look bad.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 15:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I partially aggree with this topic, some of these skills have changed enough (and the old versions were good enough) that they should have just been new skills completely; EotN still doesnt have any elite skills exclusive to it, I doubt it would be immensly hard to pop a few new skills in up there. But then again some of the skills only change about 25% of their function and I aggree it can be annoying, but they should remain the same skill like they have been and I guess we just have to deal with it. [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 17:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Disagree w/ topic, I believe changed functionality rewards those who are creative and like to toy around with builds. I believe the only ones it really hurts are those who lack creativity and need to use the same builds over and over again because said builds probably win hard. (note: I lack creativity and have abused the hell out of sabway and any other build I find that wins hard, yay necro +1 immunity to nerfs.) Deviant Priest 22:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Dec 18th?
At 5:40pm EST I just got a big file download (over 110 files)... Did anyone else just get a new patch too or was this a nluke? --ilr
 * I didn't bother to look how many files I downloaded, but a few of my friends told me there was an update on msn so. ;P Probably a few wintersday updates? Xxteacakez 22:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Decorations for wintersday are up [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  22:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Parsing gw.dat for new info as I type this. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol
Increased faction gain per kill in Amatz Basin to 5. guess giving 1 faction per kill was bad idea--67.165.112.125 01:06, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Jingle Bear
Before the update this dumbass "suprise reward" was labeled "R5 Jingle Bear" and now it is "Lvl 5 Jingle Bear" should this be noted? 01:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's probably the bug they had to fix to make it tamable. Tamable pets don't have a profession, which means it should show as "Lvl 5 Jingle Bear", as it does now.  "R5 Jingle Bear" meant that it was a standard, non-tamable NPC with its profession set to ranger.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh... last I recall most (maybe all) pets were R5. At least in Presearing they are, that's the last place I checked.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "Fixed a bug that prevented players from taming the Jingle Bear." o flippitty ding, its tameable now, still has to be the 2nd worst thing (behind loot scaling) that Anet has thought of. Its a friken polar bear with bow on it that you cant even tell is there if you get up close, not to mention it is exclusive to rangers.  They better be pulling a "lets get them pissed and then give them the REAL suprise" or your going to see in the headlines of the newspaper "Gunman Kills ## in AreaNet Building Shooting" [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 15:18, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * How are pets exclusive to rangers? Any character can go /R and tame a pet, a lot of people do that just to have an extra meatshield in the party.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:36, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * well not "exclusive" to rangers, but its not often you see an elementalist or monk running around with a bear, my main point to my anger is I got all excited for a "suprise" and when I found out it was a polar bear with a colar on it, you can see how thats kind of depressing... [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 15:53, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello, I don't mean to be rude, but they have actualy bothered to add something new this year. They could have given us the same thing as last year, but they actually added something new. New = work, and work = not cheap. So please stop QQ'ing, and brighten up. Its nearly X-mas after all. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 19:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They added all the EotN wintersday quests. fair enough, but the polar bear pet isn't really new content. The model has been ingame for a logn time, it's just been scaled down. I tamed/am going to tame it on every character I run through. But That's more because I'm a collector than because I like it. Something I think they should have done is to make the miniature polar bear easier to get. The droprate on that thing, plus only being possible to get 2 weeks/year, just seems wrong for an event item. Viruzzz 10:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * AMEN. Give people a piece of candy for free, but no, they'll demand the whole box...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * But... but... I wanna tame a Wintersday Moa! *whines inconsolably* Dx--72.220.203.111 23:11, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In addition to what Arnout aka The Emperors Angel said, you also have to remember that a lot of the ANet staff is also working on a little thing called Guild Wars 2. You know, the big sequel to this game that we're playing? So, yeah. Cut 'em a break. 66.207.82.44 00:11, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * 72.220.203.111, Jingle bear wtfpwns wintersday moa anyday. Stupid dancing bird. puh. Big ass bear (with a cute bell) ftw! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:56, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Arnout, I'm not saying the quests were bad, it was nice to actually have fun doing something like that, but it was the reward I am mad about [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 15:53, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Jingle Bear wasn't meant to be a reward to the EoTN quests (you get summoning stones, cc shards, etc). It was meant more or less to be a bonus given to people who played the game. And besides, it would be a cool pet to have in a few months time since I doubt it would be available for capping after Wintersday ends.Horus Nightlight 06:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In summary...wah, wah, wahhhh,sniffle,wah. C'mon, just what did you all want or expect? I was taught long ago...You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can never make all the people happy all of the time.--Dosearius 22:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, point made. You win. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:54, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Obvious Reference
...To the golden compass. Discuss lol. (GW-Kiron 03:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC))
 * Wut? O_o Then again, I haven't seen it... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw the movie. I had the feeling that it was as "cheap" as the Eragon's one. Both are fans movies. Harry Potter movies are better done (but maybe with a way bigger budget). The polar bear in GW can't be a reference to that because it only was a response to all the players who wanted polars bears in the first place, long before that movie was made. — TulipVorlax 06:28, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Not that I personally care that much, but The Golden Compass is a specifically anti-Christian movie, the authors apparently wrote it specifically as a counter to C.S. Lewis' The Lion And The Wardrobe and its sequels. ANet might want to be careful with that. I know people who won't see Daniel Craig in movies because he was in it, and promoted it heavily (in their opinion, beyond the usual, suggesting he supported the anti-Xtian nature of it). Not that I'm looking to start a flame war here about religion. OBloodyHell 00:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The movie was pretty piss poor given how great the book was, tbh. Even though I'm hardly a serious fan (only ever read the first one), I was disappointed. (Although that goes for the Narnia movies too.) While the book may have had certain messages/themes in it which were anit-Christian, as usual the movie blows it way out of proportion. It reminds me of those people who disapprove of Harry Potter because it preaches occult magicks and turns them into Wiclets. :\
 * Anyway, I don't see much reference... I am pretty sure it was based off the prior popularity of the miniature Polar Bear, Polar Bear pets, and Ursula the White. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but the Harry Potter thing is flat out stupid. The HP universe is clearly NOT this universe. Any proviso against magic can therefore be treated as possibly meant by God for This universe but not That one. And all the HP culture shown celebrates Xmas. That hardly suggests a connection between magic and The Dark Lord which might be applicable in our culture (and yeah, I know the difference between Wiccah and Satanism -- the actual provision in Hebrew is not against a "witch" but against those who place curses on others... including "Damn You!" ;oP ) OBloodyHell 16:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Disconnect Problem
Hey, in the past 2 or 3 days when I am playing GW the game slow downs and I become "stuck" I either get kicked if I wait a while, or I exit by clicking the "X", and it takes a while for me to log back on. I also noticed when I got back on, a VERY large portion of the guild list (we have about 100 members, so this isnt a small situation) all had 1-4 minutes offline next to their name. Plus all my friends said it has happened to them too. Since it seemed it was a global issue, I gave Anet a break from the 3 million tickets they are probably getting by not sending one myself. So does anyone know what is going on? 22:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They have server problems or somthing, alot of people have routinely complained about lag and dissconnection problems. Roland Cyerni 22:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Update
Palm strike predictably was nerfed, damage and cripple duration was reduced.
 * Big whoop--98.247.164.84 04:18, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically, yes, it was nerfed, but two of the three things wrong with the skill are still there. He removed the overly long cripple, but the fact that it is way to spammable is still intact, as well as the fact that it's unblockable good damage that circumvents all normal melee counters. What I mean to say is that Palm Strike bypasses the assassin concept of Lead-Offhand-Dual, and having only one way to use your skills, and gives the assassin too many options in the event of them being hard-countered with things like shield bash. -- [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] 05:01, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The assassin class is a powerful spiking/high damage tool, which means it must have a counter besides the standard ol' blindness. Everything in this game needs to be balanced, and the spiking capabilities vs. the set attack chain of the assassin provide the balance for that class.  Just my opinion... [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 12:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, cry moar? :p  --76.113.200.14 06:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Look! Another worthless comment!  TRA-LA-LA!  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe the Monks could start carrying CTT, Help, and PS with PV(as the cover-enchant) if they're the ones getting spiked and trampled by this skill. If anyone else is getting spiked by it still then that's their fault, the crippling and Dmg were both reduced and that's significant enough... --ilr
 * You need pretty good reflexes to catch this combo with Purifying Veil. I've always wondered why a simple anti-KD like Aura of Stability isn't used, but I know it is because of the spammability - which was not addressed at all. Anyway, uncounterable stuff is always baed for balance. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The nerf did absolutely nothing to this skill. The fact that it cripples at all, plus the four second recharge are more than enough by themselves. Palm strike sins will not diminish in number at all over this nerf. They can double the crip time and triple the dmg, i dont care. they need to at least double the recharge. its too freakin spammable. (GW-Kiron 09:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC))


 * Aura of Stability is stapled onto every RC Monk's bar in HA, and most-every Mo/W in TA has Balanced Stance and Shield Bash. Still Pimp Slap sins rolled. Heck, last time I played in a team with PS sins, we got a DC'ed PS Sin, and we got a Zaishen Archer in return. We still won a match afterwards, and the enemies weren't even bad (we were, kinda).
 * And Ilr: Stripping yourself of any form of Energy Management (GoLE / Channeling) just to counter instakill sins is insane. In HA you need to Channeltank<1-- frontline as a monk to benefit from Channeling as much as possible--> to spam your brains out often enough. Besides, CTT is easily countered by pressing Pimp Slap 5 times. Which would cost a whopping 25 Energy, which is easily regained by autoattacking. Come on. And "Help Me!"? Blargh, don't get me started. 3⁄4 casts (RC and WoH respectively) can easily catch it. The problem is how often you need to use either.
 * PS is also staple. So is Spirit Bond. Point being? It has a recharge and an energy cost. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah yeah yeah, look I've said elsewhere that I think the whole Concept of the Assassin in an MMO is imbalanced. And I'm not a big fan of PvP that relegates all the Health-Recovery duties to just one class either; which seems to be the case with this one's current Metagame. But even just 4 preventions of PS is more than enough time to get the midline involved in stopping those Sin spikes on the monks, I don't care if there's two or three sins teaming up for the Gank... CTT causes PS to fail and until you've actively prevented "1 Shot solo spikes" like I have in other PvP games, you have little concept of what a real Imba-Gank looks like :p.  GuildWars is sooooo much more responsive and balanced than other games out there and that's why I claimed it was "Significant Enough".  And I know what else you're thinkin':  "Why fill half your bar just to counter 1 stupid elite??"  ...the answer is:  Atleast that one Elite CAN be countered by regular skills --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](09,Jan.'09)


 * DShot counters most-anything with a cast time. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Shouts FTW then, especially one that cuts Cast times in Half ;) --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]]


 * I'm a fan of this nerf. The skill remains powerful and usable.  Sometimes, nerfs are so over the top that they leave the skill almost completely useless, hurting the game.  A gentle nerf was in order, and that's what we got. Lazuli  23:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, Ilr, unless you've actually fought/watched in obs the Pimpslap sins at work, then you have no idea what you're talking about. -_- [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And With all due respect, even if that were true, it wouldn't bother me one bit :D ...atleast on this topic anyway. PvP is so subjective it should come with a bong --ilr
 * Shh, you can't reveal what "Vent" is really used for [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * On the topic of "[stuff] that relegates all the Health-Recovery duties to one class," I fully agree. I mean, sure, some classes have a few heals here and there, but the Monk is still necessary most of the time because you need their raw healing power.  Take D&D for instance, while the primary healing class is a Cleric; almost any magic-using class (Druid, Sorcerer, Paladin, etc) can use healing spells and can cross-heal if need be.  Hell, if you build one right, they can be almost as good a healer as a Cleric while still retaining their class-specific charms, such as Smite Evil (Paladins), Weapon Specialties (Rangers), et cetera.  Then again, who pays attention to a game that's been around for like...  30 years?  Shit's so old, it might as well be in a museum.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 06:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's that way in WoW, too. Priests are the main "healer" class, but shamans, druids, and to an extent paladins can all fill the healing role as well. DKS01 09:58, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Careful with that acronym 'round here, its likely to get ya lynched. [/joke] [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 18:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Special:MyPage/Lynch them! ftw. Feel free to create (use humor please). -- ◄mendel► 20:10, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I'll be okay, I'm not declaring one game>the other, just making a comparison. I did okay when I mentioned the differences in combo systems between assassins/rogues in D2, WoW, and GW so long as I don't start screaming something like "OMFG noobs go play WOW!1!!1!" or something I don't think I got much to worry about:D DKS01 20:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Combos are for sissies. Just give your DDO rogue a +1 composite longbow and plenty of arrows (don't forget the quiver!), throw in some points in hide and move silently and nice, light armor.  Sneak around and pull off sneak attacks to your heart's delight.  Then again, I seem to be doing really well as a Wizard; but my Barbarian will kick yer ass with his +2 adamantium greatsword!  RAWR!!! >:[ ]  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 23:46, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Xunlai Tournament
So, something is f'ed up for me. I didn't get any rewards. I registered my mule account with the sign-in Email as the account name, and put in my regular Email in the next slot that just asks for the Email address. Well, the second one is also the sign-in for my main GW account (yeah, stupid me...) Well, I made December predictions on my mule acct, and it wouldn't let me do it on the main. I didn't get rewards on either. Now it let me make January predictions on both. WTF? Is there anyway to un-register the Xunlai Tournament accounts and do it over with matching Email addresses? I was dumb enough to do it, and the site was dumb enough to let me use my main account's Email sign-in (already registered in the Xunlai House) as the Email address for the mule account Email field... >_< RoseOfKali  05:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can always try contacting support, but that is the worst bug I've heard of to date... dunno how that'll work out. :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I'll give it another chance for next month, but if it's still broken, boy, am I gonna rant... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Youre gonna rant? why? sounds like you majorly screwed up. (GW-Kiron 09:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC))
 * Oh, well, gee thanks, I didn't notice... By rant I mean beg them to delete the second Xunlai House account so I can start over.  And besides, THEY let me screw up by letting me use an Email address that was ALREADY REGISTERED in the House on another account.  Anyway, this month I was able to do both predictions, instead of just one, so maybe it'll work out.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 09:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not allowing the same contact email for more than one account is major fail anyway, IMO. It shouldn't matter at all. Unless the lottery laws prohibit that. --◄mendel► 10:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's what Usernames are for. But here the problem was using a contact Email for a Xunlai House account that's already registered as a separate Xunlai House ACCOUNT, and somehow failing to make that work by realizing that those are two separate accounts in GW owned by the same person, and that both should get rewards if both voted, because hey, both were paid money for. Unlike last month, it let me make predictions on both this month, so maybe it'll work like it's supposed to.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * At least you where able to make an account. My GW account got hooked up with a nonreal e-mail that does not match my sign in, does not exist, cannot be made (it lacks a @something.com) and cannot be fixed.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]îğá†ħŕášħ  22:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ^-that sucks (GW-Kiron 00:05, 10 January 2009 (UTC))
 * Why can't it be fixed? Have you tried asking Support about it? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 06:26, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes I have, it can't be fixed because (exact wording) "Your account was connected with this email address as a preliminary test for the tournament system, normally user accounts would not be used but the intern typed in the wrong number (he is no longer with us). We can't reset the address because the test is an integral part of the system, and the servers that track account information would most likely result in a crash if we did reset it."  Fuck interns.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  07:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * lolwut? >.> Prehaps you could file a class-action lawsuit for all other disenfranchised users whose accounts were misappropriated this way. :C Also I wonder why they do not just fix this during a "Routine Maintenance" downtime. Sounds fishy to me. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They sent a follow up message, I was actually the only one that got screwed over by this.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 07:51, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Umm... So do they give you a free 100 Tourney rewards points every month as consolation? They should... RoseOfKali 19:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That would imply screwing yourself over is better than not screwing yourself over; I got just 30 TRPs this month and forget it about one-in-three until Twilight tells me he is mATing again; which is too late. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, ok, 50? It just seems really odd that they would throw their hands up and go "Nope! Can't fix it! You're screwed!" on one of the popular features of GW... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't actually contacted them about tourney points gratuities. So I don't know what they would say to that.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Colors! ]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  23:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Might as well send them a message, the worst that will happen is them saying no. Ask for an alternate method of turning in your predictions or something. (GW-Kiron 19:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC))
 * If I was ANet I wouldn't go through any sort of trouble to fix this for just one customer (and risk breaking it for everybody else in the process, if only for a short time). Technically, they're legally liable for a refund of the game price if you had decided to stop playing because of that, and of course you didn't. --◄mendel► 06:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but it would make them look like assholes, moreso than they already are. Personally, I would offer some form of consolation due to this mix-up as a way of saying "shit, my bad," ya know?  Free TRP's or something like that should be in order.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 18:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Canthan New Year
I bought seven stacks of glittering dust last year! MUNEEE! (GW-Kiron 17:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC))
 * Meh, fireworks are too expensive to craft... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Näkkst apdäit?
Any word on when the next balance update's gonna be? Lookin forward to more "functionality changed" for underused elites - and maybe a deserved WoH nerf (and other HP elites buff) -- Taki Fujiko  14:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Updates are usually the 2nd thursday of every month. So it should be 12-13th feb (depending on where you live) <font color="Green">Lยкץ๒๏ץ <font color="Blue">talk  16:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If anything, the WoH nerf would only be in PvP, PvP'ers are the only ones whining about it, as if Diversion and Power Block didn't exist. But anyway, Anet already said they're working on a "very large" update for account based HoM and something else that I forget that will be coming in April, so I assume they're too busy for many functionality changes, they will only attend to the minimum.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:52, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol at the idea of pblocking the heal monk. WoH doesn't get moaned about all that much in comparison to stuff like MoI or LC. Lord of all tyria 20:09, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I asked this a while ago and an experienced source was Very Skeptical, to say the least --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](05,Feb.'09)
 * If they nerf woh, there goes my source of gladiator points (GW-Kiron 03:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC))
 * are you kidding me? woh isnt overpowered at all, current meta rapes woh hard 68.255.2.23 22:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

02/05/09
Why don't I see this in the updates descriptions, even though it's in the code? RoseOfKali 01:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it's not an update, it's a downgrade. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * fix't [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Terrible update IMO... 66.131.88.142
 * Fixed some long-overdue bugs/anomalies, nerfed a few broken skills (that were used in GvG builds), didn't touch much else (like PS). Oh well, at least they didn't buff Seering Flooms or something stupid. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Leaving PS as is, while nerfing "Frenzy-2.0", doesn't qualify as something stupid ? --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](05,Feb.'09)
 * Prage needed a nerf. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

So, anyone know what was the second update for? There aren't any update notes on it. RoseOfKali 03:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Implemented the "not noted" MoI update. Before, it only changed the description. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * So are they just not gonna nerf PS? Can't they make sin viable again without making it through only one skill? cmon ppl, lets see a SP recharge buff, a WotA rebalance, a beguiling haze buff! theres lots of ways to make sins play the way they are supposed to without making PS total crap-dmg-mac. (131.95.174.221 06:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC))


 * The Restoration/Lively Was Naomei bug was a nuisance. I've had situations where the game said I wiped even though Razah was still alive with a permanent rez.  Fixing that is good.  Quizzical 06:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * How would a game say you wiped if a party member is still alive? I actually preferred it bugged, because it would start the res shrine countdown and save some extra DP by teleporting everyone out of the fight before all were dead and letting me prepare for a second round, as opposed to ressing the party completely helpless from Resto/LWN in the middle of a fight.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 09:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a different story if your last man standing drops dead while holding the ashes, or with the spirit still around. THEN it's good for the game to know that you're all about to res, instead of declaring it a wipe. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 09:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If for example, you are in FoW/UW/insert other elite mission with chance of failure - imagine your party dies and the only party member remaining is a hero with Lively Was Naomei. The game would consider your party wiped and kick you out of the area, since living heroes without res count as dead players, which I can imagine has been a real nuisance to a lot of players. --[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 11:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Can't they make sin viable again without making it through only one skill?" ← Whatever the answer to that is, it's probably best asked somewhere else.  The Talk:Assassin page has plenty of ideas atleast in regard to Daggers IIRC. --ilr

Only good things are the Dancing Daggers fix and a nerf to MoI abusing Necros and Mesmers - I sorta expected more. Specially some "Functionality changed"s. -- Taki Fujiko  14:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Where the heck is the Ray of imba judgment nerf??? It is RAMPANT in JQ(GW-Kiron 14:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Because balances are rarely based off low-end pvp. Basically. Lord of all tyria 15:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And because it's a farking huge beam that everyone without a visual handicap can avoid. --[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 15:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Taki, what do u mean by "the Dancing Daggers fix"? What changed? - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420  15:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ummm... Read the update notes? It used to always count as a lead; now the daggers have to hit. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Had read the update notes, didn't notice DD in 'bug fixes', cuz A) didn't know there was a bug w/DD to begin with & B) the bug fixes section is usually insignificant shit that I at most usually just skim thru. Thanks for the info tho. - [[Image:Ins420sig.png]] 420 19:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree that the bug fixes are usually insignificant, I've seen so many that are the level of "OMG! WTF?! If only I had known earlier, I would have abused it so much it's not funny." ;) 60.48.227.20 14:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC).
 * Progger, I believe he was taking about the bug where the AI doesn't consider it AoE so they won't scatter from it. (Although "shrine" NPCs in general don't scatter from AoE anyway, so...) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:48, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * JQ NPCs die too fast to scatter (LOL 330 HP! ). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:23, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * They should at least increase the npc's hp so they cant die from one freggin roj, or spread them out the tiniest bit so it doesnt hit them all. gosh. I was litterally in a round where my entire team was Mo/P (yeah... that was me included, but still ha ha)(GW-Kiron 22:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC))

2/24/09
is it just me or is this update freaking huge?
 * It's just you. I only downloaded a single file. Probably fixed the Everlasting Mischievous Tonic. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's yet ANOTHER crash bug fix. Check the official site.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with the tonic, anyway? [Besides the nasty brown pubes... :$] RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:53, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Infinite party animal points. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Makes ya wonder just how much playtesting they actually do before they release something into the public server(s), don't it? [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 22:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WUT?!! :O Well, let's see how long before they go back and take away people's points (assuming they can track how many points came from mischievous, but I thought they can track pretty much everything. *shrug*) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

March 5th
Skill update some bad and good nerfs. ShureShot <font color="Green">Masta <font style="color:#CC9966">Rangah! 00:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * rtw, flail, wow, hc, and all the stance updates were pretty much pandering to bad people who couldnt figure out what to do when they ran into turret rangers, split rits, RA monks. as for the healing signet one i just cant understand why anet expects people to split and then be useless for stand when great, they have wasted points on tactics on a skill begging to be interrupted. but oh well Funkopotomis 00:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I see the clause about weapon of warding ending if the ally attacks is under the PvP heading - however I'm seeing that change in PvE too. Shadowlance 00:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)  Edit: Noticed the bug tag on the skill page - looks like only the PvE version's description is wrong - not the functionality.  Shadowlance 16:14, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

So with the Warrior stance nerfs, all the dual stance Monks will now... still use dual stance...? lol - 420  01:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * On the bright side, I love the new Aura of Restoration. XD RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:18, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Tactics: Would you nerf me? I'd nerf me, I'd nerf me HARD. Deviant Priest 01:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

This update failed in so many ways, although it did nerf some things that needed to get nerfed (Wail of Doom!) and made some builds harder to use (pew-pew rangers). Although I don't like how they chose to go about it. Warriors very rarely used the Warrior stances, and nerfing Flail for them is rather pointless; what they should have done instead is same as with Aura of Restoration, scale them to like 0...8 or something; that way, if you actually invest attribute points in them they are still useful. This would have worked especially well on Flail.

Primal Rage got gutted, and Hidden Caltrops...bleh.

I like how they STILL didn't fix the AoE bug with Jesus Beam. Or actually fix other glaring balance problems like Wounding Strike, Seering Flooms, Burning Arrow...

The biggest problem in this update is that they are mostly choosing to nerf defensive skills. That's the wrong way to fix things - both offense and defense need to be downtuned, but offense ought to have been tuned first, because otherwise that just leaves people to get slaughtered in the meantime. Besides, even though they nerfed some of the most common defense skills, they left plenty intact. Return is still perfectly viable, for instance, as is Shield Bash... (T/C) 02:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, my RA monk doesn't like this. And my spike caller doesn't like the Rend update. And honestly, Arage wasn't used that much anymore, why nerf it again? Drag  nmn   talk cont  06:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you suppose they're getting tired of all the Rit flaggers? With the A-rage, Weapon of Warding, and Hidden Caltrops nerfs, it seems to be a possibility.  But who takes their place, then?  Elementalists with their newly buffed Aura of Restoration?  I guess spamming Heal Party is becoming more and more of a possibility. <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  06:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * My guess is that LoD will somehow find its way back in the game again. --[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 10:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * LoD was nerfed so hard that it wasn't even suitable for PvE. I laughed so hard when they had to remove it from Mhenlo in EotN because people kept dyin' and it was just ridiculous... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's becoming more and more popular as of a couple of weeks.--- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't suppose you know the exact build? I can't see how anyone could put it to good use anymore. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Nope, I don't. But runners are used for a couple of things, running flags is only one of them. As your other midline slots are basically taken by bitchroles and other support, you stuff the party heal (which you really need imo) on a runner. Since pwk has taken a slight hit and LoD is a 66 party heal for 5 energy available every 7 seconds, monk running is becoming viable again. Add in party heals in the divine line for extra kicks, dash or something similar for IAS and you got yourself quite a nice runner. But that's just my €0,02. --[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 17:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Summary:
 * Shadow Refuge: Win
 * Hidden Caltrops: Epic Fail again, yet another of these bullshit "disabled everything for 10 sec" crap skills. No ty, I'd very much like to use this ON MY PRIMARY SIN with a SECONDARY CLASS and NO TY I want to use my rezz signet.
 * Aura of Restoration: Go WoH Eles? -.-
 * Mesmer changes: Yet to see if this is good or OP. 150 selfheal with 1/2 cast every 8 seconds may be too good since attackers are most likely prevented from attacking you somehow (BF/Emp).
 * Necro changes: They go in the right direction but the bane of any enchantment build which outclasses a certain elite is still there
 * Defensive Stance, Shield Stance: FAIL Monks need SOME defense and those stances were equally useful on everyone
 * Disciplined Stance: WIN, 1 skill abuse almost fixed, 2 more to go
 * Distracting Strike: EPIC FAIL
 * Flail: EPIC FAIL because a PvPPvE split was in order, thanks for ruining barrage Rangers' atkboost in PvE
 * Heal Signet: same as ether feast
 * PRage: Lol.
 * Soldier's Defense: Did anyone ever use that?
 * Read the Wind: LOL WHAT??? Way to ruin Rangers. How about a Savage Shot and similiar nerf instead??? We all hate mindless interrupt spammers anyways.
 * Weapon of Warding: Seems like an OK nerf, it's still useful on all casters for all casters
 * The changes to Shield Bash and Dark Escape abuse, Wounding Strike, Burning Arrow, WoH, Foul Feast, Aura of the Gay, Visions of Noob, Recurring Unusability, Palm Strike, Shroud of Failure, Rampage as One, Blinding Surge and JQ-NPCs: Are NONEXISTANT, thanks ANet..not.

-- Taki Fujiko  09:05, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * IAS is almost useless on Barrage ranger btw, since all it does is speed up Barrage, so unless you're using a Hornbow (lol)... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * "# Soldier's Defense: Did anyone ever use that? " Yes. Incomingway (perma IMS and heal for the whole team; easy defense). Mainly a preemptive nerf, though; if it wasn't nerfed, you'd see Solds Def and Incoming a lot probably. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  12:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing Viper; it wasn't metagame, but it would have been if they didn't preemptively nerf it. --Macros 13:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * They should preemptively nerf Soldier's Stance, too, then. Fallbackway! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * FB ends on hit, and Soldier's Stance is Tactics. Also, Soldier's Fury Scythe Paras (they're quite wicked in HA), Incoming Paras with defensive shit, 3 monk backline. Lol wUt? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This skill update was good in the sense that it balanced a few things out, but bad in the sense that it's boring and doesn't make me want to play Guild Wars. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This update is bad in the sense that they didn't nerf palm strike, which is the reason Disciplined and Shield Bash are staple. --  Shadowcrest  20:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * D-stance was widely run in the last mAT and across the ladder despite PS sins hardly being meta. Shield bash was used loads before PS as well. Panic buttons ftw. Lord of all tyria 21:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What loat said. Those skills have been run before pimpslap ever existed; Shield Bash has been an option for monks ever since the days of Prophecies only. They may not have been as "necessary" as they are now, but they've always been getting abused. (although Shield Bash is more balanced, so I don't see them nerfing it) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hell no. Shield Bash is one of the most extremely unbalanced skills in GW. It's not a defensive skill. It's an offensive-defensive skill which SUCKS. It's the ultimate spike stopper with its knockdown and skill disable. Completely and utterly imba. And the KD and disable even occurs on unblockable skills, and the disable-duration is unlinked-way-too-long-15 seconds. There's so much to fix about this skill. But the simplest and best would be to make the duration 1 sec at 0 Strength. I take disci stance abuse over SBash abuse any day, at least disci stance only blocks my shit and doesn't disable my chain for 30 seconds or prevents me from gaining any adrenaline on it for 15 sec on top of a knockdown. Rant over -.- I really do hate this skill.--[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  21:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because you play assassins, and this skill is balanced because it does what it is supposed to do, be a one skill answer to beat down chains.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 22:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's because I play against which it is HUGELY imbalanced. It doesnt matter what you play, if you pick up an axe, a sword, a hammer, a scythe or daggers. If you face Shield Bash you LOSE. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  22:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Shield Bash is a good example of a balanced skill. Why? Because you get exactly one shot to use it, and then it's gone for 20 seconds. Unlike the other passive "use and forget" or "preprot" defenses (hint: dstance), it's an active defense that requires skill to use. If you time it right and the opponent is running certain kind of build (usually sins, due to long attack chains which they stupidly think they can get away with with no interruption), then you get to majorly fuck them up. If you just use it at random or whenever melee comes to attack you, then it's useless - they'll autoattack you for 5 seconds, or bait it with something like Wild Blow that they can afford to lose. Or they'll change targets. Shield Bash also doesn't do that much against people who don't rely on chained attack skills anyway (hint: WE warriors, almost all scythe builds, Lyssa's daggers...), since they've got other skills to harass you with still - those bars don't lose a lot by disabling one skill. Other than the disable, the knockdown is great for letting you get away, as you can use Shield Bash while moving and then an IMS while they're KD to put a good distance between you. But outside of 1v1ish situations like that, it is just another skill like Smoke Powder Defense. It's not overpowered or imbalanced at all. But tbh it may as well be unlinked with a 5-second duration, as primary Warriors don't take it all that often/speccing into Strength doesn't make it significantly better. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That reasoning is weak. Yes disci stance was used "just like that" before and shield bash not. But shield bash is a guaranteed spike stopper. It's meant to be used when you get low on health. Shield Bash -> WoH. Theres NO way the enemy can do ANYTHING about it because it's a skill and can't be interrupted or removed. Or use it when u're knocked down. There is just no way at all to stop or circumvent the use of this skill. And if the monk gets so dangerously low more than every ~20 sec he sucks. If ANet really thinks this should be balanced then yes. Make it unlinked 5 sec duration. But stop kidding warriors by defeating them with their own strength-linked skill, it's ridiculous. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  10:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Zzz, w/e skill gets shield bashed on a warrior isn't all that scary. Sure, you lose your DW or KD for 15 seconds, who cares? Hit someone else. Guild Wars is not balanced around RA or AB, so dstance which lets you block 2 warriors and a turret ranger is a far better spike stopper even after being nerfed. Lord of all tyria 11:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * w/e skill gets bashed also is unable to build up any adrenaline. GG, it takes at least 5 seconds for a usable skill to gain the adrenaline back...and then we are at 20 seconds, guess what's recharged by then? i'd say a 3 second REMOVABLE! stance is more balanced than a 5s UNREMOVABLE guaranteed PASSIVE lifesaver. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  22:07, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's an idea-while that 1 skill is disabled and not gaining adrenaline, maybe try using some of the other 7 skills on your bar? I realize you probably have an IAS and a Rez Sig and such, but I suspect you still have at least a COUPLE of other attacks on your bar right? Maybe you could use them while you're waiting? I know this idea is pretty radical, but give it a shot mate, you might like it, you might even kill someone with it. DKS01 23:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Guaranteed? hahaha. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  22:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * btw, have you ever monked Taki? Just wondering. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * yes, look at my Userpage. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  11:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Update - Thursday, March 5, 2009
Deep Tank Taken A Nerf Then. --Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 11:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd think they should be more concerened by Shadow Form tanks. Andy 16:57, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I think they increased the tome drops in EotN a bit too much. I went through CoF HM with a friend, and from one chest he got an elite Derv Tome and I got an elite Rit tome. Later, I pulled an Elite Necro tome from another chest. Lol. --Joseph Leito 18:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not bad if those things drop a bit in price. Makes it easier to get those hard to get skills, and makes it cheaper to get those good leet skill on low level chars. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 18:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems as if every update is making things worse. I always think the next update might inspire me to play again, but...meh. Silver Sunlight (T/C) 21:00, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This one was mostly not terrible. Lord of all tyria 21:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Why isn't anyone ever happy that Anet still gives a shit about GW1? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * /happy! [[Image:Sisipherr sig image.jpg|19px]]<font face="georgia" size="2px" color="teal">Sisipherr 21:37, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The critical difference is that of giving a shit vs. giving us shit. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * They obviously don't give a shit, as evidenced by the state of balance (lol) and the state of the economy (also lol). -- Shadowcrest  22:24, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ^This^ - All they do is try to keep us playing long enough at a certain level of satisfaction. If you are HAPPY with GW1, you may not buy GW2. If you are ABSOLUTELY UNHAPPY about GW1, you won't buy GW2 either (which is the minority of players actually, even though most of us wiki'ers belong to it). So they do the "right" thing and tune things the way to keep you SLIGHTLY UNHAPPY with the thought "Oh in GW2 it will be better I hope..." Yeah. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  01:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This update and the previous one(s) show a good trend towards starting to actually balance some stuff. It may not have been the best way to go about it, and many many things remain broken, but it's a start. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * One sec, updating userpage.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 03:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If there is a degree of dissatisfaction, I would think it has a tendency to make people wonder if the sequel will be the same. If a "crowd" loves a game, they are very likely to go and buy the sequel, even if they will play both and not completely switch.  So I disagree with Taki's "interpretation."  I just think it's hard to make everyone happy, no matter what you do.  And seriously, how much time do you think Anet would have to spend observing the "meta" to figure out every single thing that upsets people anyone ever?  And what are the chances that they will come up with a "good" solution to every problem?  Maybe they are just probing it with smaller changes to see where it leads instead of nerf-batting half the skills used in PvP?  Either way, somebody will always be unhappy.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Entropy, but I also understand Rose's comments. The radical ways they are using to solve the problems, just spoil the game. They always seem to nerf a skill into oblivion instead of making it balanced. If a skill has to be nerfed into disuse to preserve balance (for example Smiter's Boon), why don't they change the skill's functionality instead? These 10 second disables could just as well have been substituted by a "only primary classes may use this". Some problems still run rampant and some were fixed. I'll play GW2 regardless of GW1's attempts at balance, but I'm done with number 1. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 14:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course "some" people will doubt that GW2 will be better. But the majority won't because it's part of a sequel-game's advertising "bigger better new playable races Zaxis come buy buy!" which get's the hopes of people up that are tired of GW1. --[[Image:Takisig.jpg]] Taki Fujiko  16:36, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Changing functionality is a tricky task, because you might inadvertently make PvE mobs using the skill either godly or too easy to farm. OTOH, I think they're doing a pretty good job of continuously balancing 1,300+ skills in a free-to-play game.  Look at how badly D2 failed with barely 200...
 * I'd still rather buy a non-perfect "pretty" game for the price of 2 crappy movies, Hollywood is starting to suck balls (well, has been for a while now)... >_< If you seem to be so tired of GW1 now and are trying to tell everyone that GW2 will suck knowing nothing about it yet, why do you even bother wasting your time on a GW wiki? There's no such thing as a perfect game, and if you're looking for one, good luck... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Case in point, my new favorite skill, the Jesus Beam. The Afflicted Monks are now my new primary targets, because that shit hurts!!  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 19:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe what I hate about all those skills, is that you'd never see all of them in play. GW was definitely one of the best games I've played, before all the power creep started. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 23:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * (split Topic) Y'all are thinking too small. This update has a lot less to do with small arena play and a lot more to do with balancing around Objectives and "Gear". In the bigger picture, if you were Anet and wanted to get people more acclimated to your primary Focus (IE: GW2) then you'd start focusing playstyles towards a more mobile and objective oriented kind of teamwork, like the kind of roles you'd expect to find in RvR or "World-PvP" as opposed to some HA circlejerk that only appeals to 100% Minmaxxers and balance-whores.  Crap like that doesn't leave any room for creativity, and Anet definitely seems to think independent Creativity is their strong suit.  That doesn't mean it's a GOOD idea to start refocusing an older game on something that's only fun in a new game with new mechanics and movement options, but it's their playground so they can put the swingset anywhere they want to if it improves the next playground. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](7,Mar.'09)
 * So... in a way, we're already in the GW2 beta?  Interesting way to look at it...  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 23:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * HaHa, No. It's just the only way I can rationalize "Incoming!" staying a copy of F/B without getting depressed :\ --ilr
 * God, I may be a little too much a paranoid but when I read you -- Ilr -- I thought you were talking about Aion, silly me... GW-Topinambour 20:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with Ilr because I don't see how reducing every profession to 1(one) working build increases creativity. Nope, it does exactly the opposite. In fact, ANet has been buffing elite skills for the purpose of bringing underused ones back into the meta, for the purpose of increasing the ammount of viable builds there could be, but intentions aside, what happened was the one 1337 build came out for every class and completey eliminated any room for creativity. I'm not sure about using GW1 as a "beta" for GW2. The thought has crossed my mind actually, but they risk loosing a lot of fanbase with that strategy. If GW2 flops, the future of GW1 will be uncertain. To end, its sad at all, that as of right now, people spend less time discussing the actual changes as they do trying feebly to rationalize ANet's actions. We've now gone beyond the days of arguing skill balance, now were putting forth ideas about why ANet is failing to fix the problems that they have caused for themselves? It is a sad day indeed. Shadowshear 22:47, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well first of all, I never said that. Second, almost none of the current Meta "Top" Skills would even be all-that effective in the future environment.  I can say with certainty that most of the problems we see currently are due to tools and game-engine restraints.  They'll overcome them just like every other technical/UI limitation they've had since 1992. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](8,Mar.'09)
 * There's more than one viable build for every class at the moment; certainly there are some which are significantly more powerful/overused than others (PS, VoR come to mind), but there's still multiple builds people can and do use. Prage nerf in fact helped this problem, as it suddenly made a bunch of Sword and Axe bars viable again which had become obsolete to Primal. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I was exadurating a little...but not much! yeah, the PRage nerf helped out a lot, and I had sugested making the recharge equal the duration before, so I'm happy with that nerf. But Im speaking mostly out of HA experience. When 90% of teams simply use 2 PS sins as their frontline, I don't see that as there existing other builds. Sure, there are other workable builds, but PS simply outclasses them so far, that they become unuseful. I see a greater deal of variation in arenas, but even then, its not enough. there are viable builds for each profession, but there arent any that occur in HA (in my experience) for the game to be interesting. There may be multiple good builds, But there are 2 things that I doubt anyone could validly deny, one is that there is, for each profession, there is that one build/skill that is simply better than other viable builds, and that ANets efforts to increase the ammount of usable elite skills did exactly the opposite, and due to the emergance of that one skill eliminated a lot of creative, yet viable builds/elites. Shadowshear 23:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Most people have no idea how hard it is to balance something, anything, much less a game with over 1000 legal pvp skills. I'm not saying Izzy is doing a good job, or even a decent one, but I think most people vastly underestimate the difficulty of attaining 'balance'. sure, youll reply with "WTF NO U NOOB JUST NERF PS AND WS AND PRAGE AND WOH AND WAAAAAH!!!", but if you nerf them, something else will rise to the surface as the "most op". I guaruntee.... you could nerf all day, you could buff all day, but in the competitive world of GW, players will gravitate to that one skill that gives the tiniest advantage. You as a player should look to innovate, to ascend the meta, to use knowledge and skill to outhink that nab running typical builds he learned off wiki. You should use the underpowered skills in ways that elitists say are nooby until you find something that works, something that others have looked over in their haste to copy paste PS. Then, you will see that your time spent complaining was wasted, and that to truly enjoy the game is to use your mind to outhink the masses. Only then, when you win in spite of OPness and imbaness, will you be fulfilled in the way you seek.... (Kiron 00:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC))
 * Wow... that was almost deep... too deep to be about a video game. ^_^; But that's my take on it, most people spend all this time to whine while they don't even know what they want in the sense of whether it's even feasible and how much effort it would require. Just be glad they're doing at least something to change up the meta on way or another, or it would have been IWAY and minion farms forever.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hobbes wrote about the nature state. He said man will naturally go at th throats of other men. In a game like GW, this is true even moreso. Survival of the fittest. So, no matter how long you balance, people will by process of selection choose the one skill that has a slight advantage, even if it is tiny.This can be seen as true all throughout the history of GW. The most satisfying feeling in the game,obviously, must then be to rise above this chase for that one skill, and above that desire to see all the skills equal (because the only way to truly do this is make them all the same). Instead, the desire should be to find ways to make those abandoned skills work to your advantage against the "OP" skills, to rise above the masses and beat them not by weapon sets or op bars, but by sheer invention, skill, and the grit of your teeth and the trust in your team... (Kiron 00:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC))
 * I Agree, Innovation is good, but the problem lies in it not being good enough. I doubt anyone will argue when I say PS sins are proliferous in HA, I would love to play a non-PS build that I made up myself, theres just one problem, If you're a sin, you're either PS or teamless. (Elitism shouldn't exist, but it does) so I can either play the one build, or I can not play HA. I find that a horrible choice to make. And its not just sins, its every class with their one or two builds. (I main Necro, I'm LC or bust.) I expect rebalance updates, I expect them for as long as GW is online, I don't expect to have a perfectly balanced game, because thats probably an impossible dream, But what I do expect, id for the meta to be constantly changing, to allow for new innovations to arise, and not be squashed under the foot (or palm) of the one build. Another problem is that It takes skill to run innovative builds and win with them, but anyone can target a monk and hit 1-2-3-4-5 Im not saying people who run PS are noobs, because objectively, theres no reason not to, its just good sense if you plan to win. And If I remember correctly, they nerfed blood spike teams for that very reason. Also, theres one massive flaw in your arguments from my point of view and I'll end with it because I think its that poigniant. So youre saying, "GW is imbalanced, but because it is impossible to balance, we shouldn't even bother trying?" I think that's a great way to loose your income as a game developer. 148.61.216.76 01:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I never said don't bother, what I'm saying is that they ARE bothering, or the current meta would still be the same as it was 3.5 years ago. The thing is that you can't expect something new every week, and you can't expect an immediate solution to every single problem.  There's a saying in my country that goes "The one who hurries is the laugh of the town."  If they rush to fix things, they'll break them even further, because they need to account for how each change will possibly interact with the 1300 other skills out there and all the monsters/NPCs who use them.  The only "fast" solution is to just nerf the OP without worrying about how a change to it would affect everything else, but we all know how much QQ that would produce, so I think they're just taking it slow.  Plus, right now they are busy with a large update they promised in April for the HoM, storage, and a bunch of "new" stuff, so cut them a break.  All along I'm trying to say is not to expect, and especially demand, something perfect.  They made a great game, and they're maintaining it pretty well at no extra charge, if you ask me.  And if you can't pug HA with an innovative build, why not find a guild (or make one) that thinks in a similar way and go together?  I doubt you're the only one out there who likes to experiment against the meta.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's be honest though, those skills give a lot more than just "the tiniest of advantages" --ilr(12,Mar.'09)


 * btw I'd just like to throw out there the fact that Izzy isn't the skill balancer for GW1 anymore. In fact, he has barely anything to do with it anymore; he's mostly involved with GW2. The people responsible for the current balances are the "Live Team"... Joe Kimmes, Linsey Murdock, Mike Zadorojny, Regina Buenaobra, bunch of other part-time employees. Just so everyone's clear. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:46, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * @ Entropy, Yeah, its true, and its been that way for quite a long time actually. I had forgotten about that, ty for the reminder! @Rose of Kali, I guess I could use to be a bit more patiant because their working on that (what 9, or 10 month) HoM update. But WoH, VoR, and even PS have been around for months now, have been passed-by by at least 2 skill updates. I realize that the team is busy, especially right now, but then- the meta has been dominated by the same stuff for months now, you'll forgive me for getting a little tired of the same stuff. and, as Ilr said, this is a lot more than "the tiniest of advantages". And exatly that is pretty much the textbook definition of "overpoweredness". Balance doesn't need to be perfect, but it needs to be close enough so that people are straining for that "tiniest of advantage". As of right now, their easily obtaining the upper hand, not straining for anything. Shadowshear 14:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * VoR has been out for quite some time; PS wasn't used until the December update; WoH is overused but not overpowered (technical/semantics explanation involved). I'm pretty sure ANet is fine with VoR/Backfire/Empathy as those haven't been touched for like half a year or more. PS is relatively new still, and I think they still think it's not overpowered; hopefully they will realize soon. WoH is sort of necessary to leave as-is until they tone down the power of everything else; if you gimp defense before offense, that just leads to bodycount PvP, which is even worse than stalemates from blockway/defenseball etc. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe players should stop spending time on wiki and spend more time in game. The only reason these builds get spammed like they do is because they get posted on wiki and noone seems to be able to think past posted builds. 66.35.173.49 17:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Speak for yourself, bub. Personally, I've only actively looked for builds once in the past six months.  I make up almost all of my builds on the spot.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 22:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This isn't PvX. Personally, I only "use wiki for builds" when I'm out of creative juice or I need to fact-check for something specific like 600/smite setup. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup,, no one in this duscussion "can't think past posted builds". In fact, if you had been reading above, we were discussing the reasoning behind why we can't use other builds, it has nothing to do with PvX wiki builds. It's a good thing, mr. 66.35.173.49, that you can think up your own builds, but, so can the rest of us. Theres just one problem. Certain builds are overpowered that means that the innovative builds are inferior. there is no room for innovative builds, thats our problem, we (the people you said can't think past posted builds) are the ones complaining that innovation is innefective, because we would like it to be. It just isn't. Shadowshear 20:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * However, if it weren't for us "innovators," there probably wouldn't be any "overpowered" builds to begin with, because no one would've thought, "Hmm... What if I combine X skills, Y attributes, and Z equipment...?"  Without constant testing, innovating, creating and out-of-the-box thinking, many builds just wouldn't exist.  Also, saying that innovative builds are "inferior" to the "overpowered" ones is a fallacy, because innovators have possibilities ad infinitum, whereas people who use "overpowered" builds work within a rather narrow frame of reference.  I put the word "overpowered" in quotes specifically because there really is no such thing, beem builds, for example, can be defeated by a half-baked Mesmer with some e-denial or basic interrupts, or a Ranger with some interrupts and a Recurve Bow.  All it takes is that very same innovation and innovative builds that you have deemed "inferior."  Just remember, for every build you can think up, there is always at least 5 different ways for someone to counter it.  Such is the beauty of Guild Wars.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 21:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes but are those counters viable? See: Palm Strike and "Can't Touch This!". Also, just because something has counters does not make it justified to be powerful... if Fire Storm dealt 999 damage every pulse but had a 20 second cast time, that would still be broken. (By the way, RoJ would be just fine if only they'd fix the bug.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:42, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Namely because of this, Entropy.--72.220.204.110 21:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious flaw which ANet would probably fail to catch, have you considered joining the live team? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Be nice to Anons, they are like baby deer, don't scare them away. (Yes, I watch Big Bang Theory... >_<)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I never said the game designers shouldnt try to balance, or at least I didnt mean to. I said that should not be what the PLAYERS are focused on. Yeah, designers should balance the game, but players shouldnt get hung up whenever something becomes meta or OP. Instead, they should do as I alluded to earlier and what I shall not become redundant by repeating... (Kiron 05:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC))
 * @Kirion. At the risk of invoking the straw man fallacy, you suggesting we should abandon those M16's in our military in favor of the musket, just so long as we find some way that the musket can kill the enemy as well? Yes, I'm sure there are ways to counter imbalanced skills, and it would be wonderful if your idea would work, but, "rising above the chase for that one skill" and "find ways to make those abandoned skills work to your advantage against the "OP" skills, to rise above the masses and beat them not by weapon sets or op bars, but by sheer invention, skill, and the grit of your teeth" Litterally cannot happen. The point were making when skills are imbalanced, is that none of the other skills work in that way. Maybe youre right, in that us arguing about balance on a site that ANet doesn't even recognise as a fansite is futile. But the thing is, I love this game, and the creative masterpiece it once was is being reduced to build wars. We can't help it if were a little saddened or maddened by this turn of events. So, I'll leave everyone with this ultimatum: I'm not interested in COUNTERS for Palm Strike, but builds that could replace it. Find and show me 1(one) build that could be equally or more generally useful as a frontliner in a constructed team setting. This means TA, HA, and GvG. I don't have much experience in GvG so I won't know the goings on there, so please, if you could, try to focus on HA, though I will certainly accept the other formats. What I mean by useful absolutely does not mean "able to counter common builds" I mean something that does what a Sin is meant to do, and does it well. Ok, the criteria for the build are this: Repeatability, energy management, counterability (yeah, it matters, mostly for gimmicks, and PS is very high on this one), counter recovery time, Knockdown-causing, snaring, condition causing (3 for PS, including a DW), and general dps. The build must equal or exceed PS at all these categories (or at least 50% or more) to be considered better or equal in general useage as a frontline assassin build. If im forgetting something, remind me. If you can provide me 1 build that meets this requirement for general useage not "can kill a PS" then I will take back everything I said, and agree that I just needed to think harder. Otherwise, it should be proven that no matter how much innovation, or forethought, (or even better playing to a degree) matters in the face of an imbalanced game. Because I'm pretty sure that there simply is no better utility build, therefore, using something else is a folly. *(sorry, its not you, (any of you) its GW thats getting me like this. Shadowshear 16:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would definitely be a straw man. (GW-Kiron 23:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC))

nice bug fix A-net!
Just saw some1 get 2 elite tomes from the same chest in the EoTN dungoen CoF. Is that a bug too? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No. It's always been possible to get up to 3 elite tomes from one chest.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)