User:RoseOfKali/talk/Archive5

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Rare mini pricecheck please!
Just trying to keep a list as I see them around, maybe some day I'll even buy something. :P If you have a different price than one that's listed, please post your in addition, do not remove the previous. Add your source if you can, like did you see it for sale or just heard a pc or saw someone offer a price. All undedicated please or state "ded". Thx much. RoseOfKali 19:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Greased Lightning - 1000e pc
 * Polar Bear - 1500-1750e pc 950 e for sale (ded)
 * Vizu - 450e pc
 * Kanaxai - $5,000 USD on ebay... O_O 9200e dedicated for sale (184 Armbraces)...
 * Ghostly Hero - 1100e for sale. 1500e pc. 1000-1750e pc. 1650e for sale. 950e pc
 * Shiro'ken Assassin - 800e for sale... 650e pc
 * Zhed Shadowhoof
 * Island Guardian
 * Panda - 1,500e+85 Armbraces offer for dedicated... 5,000e ded for sale now that I think about it, I wonder if that was an elaborate scam, as these prices were only a short time apart, and the offer was 750 ectos higher than the asking price
 * Grawl - 100k+19e bought
 * Longhair Yeti - 180e offer, 400e pc, 500e pc, 800e pc
 * Naga Raincaller - 370e for sale, 450e pc, wtb ded 100k+70e, 1,000e for sale
 * Oni - 333e offer, 430e for sale, 550e-600e pc, wtb ded 100k+98e, 1,000e for sale and wtb
 * Interesting facts: there were originally 29 Kanaxais, 56 Vizus, 115 Zheds and Shiro'kens, 136 Pandas and Island Guardians, 200 Greased Ligntnings, Yeti/Naga/Oni/Grawl go over 1,000, and Ghostly Hero/Polar Bear are "virtually" unlimited.
 * Last updated: RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Saw someone wanting to buy ded oni/naga just now, so I added those.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 19:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Most what?
--> Suicidal Tendencie 16:48, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * XD I don't collect boxes like that on my userpage, but it's worthy of keeping here. I do think it would be funnier if you had made the background color close to Entropy's sig color instead of maroon and made a linkie somewhere in it to the talkpage section about it. :P  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:55, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ...funnier if you... read Entropy's talk page again.
 * ...funnier if Felix... :P --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 20:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So.... what was the reason you used those tags for? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well Kali, as you started talking about the userbox on my talk page, I could only assume that you had seen the userbox in question. Thus I would have no reason to show you the userbox itself. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 13:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But see, I wanted to show it on my talkpage without having to copy over the code once again, but I guess you think that it somehow belongs to you and I'm not allowed to wikify it. *confused* RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 15:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Due to the licensing, what I submit does not belong to me. However, this site documents both the game, and itself. You do not edit the contributions of others unless it is an article that you are improving. That leads to an inaccurate account of what somebody has "said". --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 16:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

What was the purpose of "saying" the raw code of a userbox? And I thought anyone can do pretty much whatever they damn please on their own talkpage, it's the article discussions that have to be kept intact. RoseOfKali 16:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya, you can, but intellectual honesty and good debating hygiene compels you to add a note when you edited another person's edits in a way that is likely to affect the meaning. (Of course, some pranksters here don't always do that, but pranks are there to break the rules, which means the rules remain what they are.) -- ◄mendel► 16:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya. Well, I didn't think this was a debate or a prank or anything of that nature. ST just posted the userbox code with no comment, so I made it "visible" as I failed to see the meaning of posting raw userbox code with no comment.  But oh well, gotta love how people make problems where there aren't shouldn't be any...  I guess ST and I aren't just from Mars and Venus, we must be from different galaxies.
 * Well Kali, as you started talking about the userbox on my talk page, I could only assume that you had seen the userbox in question. Thus I would have no reason to show you the userbox itself.
 * So instead of showing be the box that I had already seen, he just decided to show me the code for it, but he still hasn't said why he showed me the code... O_O *still confused* RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

>:( (T/C) 06:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * lolz, poor Entropy --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 16:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We <3 Entropy. XD As long as she's around, order shall never prevail! (A good thing, imo) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I caved in...
RoseOfKali 04:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't celebrate "Get Drunk and Punch Your Relatives (Who are Also Drunk)" weekend.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 06:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Saint Patrick wasn't Irish, you know. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This holiday is no longer about Saint Patrick.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 07:15, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're going Puritan on its ass? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going Old Schoo' bitch. Celebrate the coming of spring by getting good and bloody drunk!--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ  08:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I move to support that statmend. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I prefer to celebrate St. Patrick's day by eating liquorice. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the club! [[Image:Wikismiley.svg |:)|16px]] Btw, have you tried
 * RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * or
 * RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ? -- ◄mendel► 10:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but two is twice as much fun. :P  And I don't celebrate St. Patricks day, I celebrate piles of free drops weekend.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Most F*ed-up DC evar!
So I set up a death-level with a bunch of charr last night. Had some lag in the process, but I was hopeful. I came back in the morning, and behold 4 lvl 20's in the group 13, yay!

So I put on my armor, equipped my max bow of fortitude, and started wailing on them. After 2 kills I checked my level to be at 18 and 87%, and I picked up the 2 drops while looking for the third lvl 20 between the other charr who were like 9. I started attacking the third lvl 20 and DC'd... To my disappointment, I couldn't reconnect, but here's where the weird shit happens.

I logged back in to see myself in Ascalon, my armor in my inventory, my pulling bow equipped, without the 2 drops from my last 2 kills, and at level 18 and 85%!!!

WAT DA HEEEELLLLL!!!!! RoseOfKali 17:44, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Fuck, ROLLBACK'D?! So anyways, weird... o-o" Never heard of that happening. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've had that happen before, where I get D/C in the middle of something important. One time, it was good - I d/c in the middle of Ruins of Morah, and when I get back in (manage to reconnect) they have won me Master's reward. :D But it's usually worse. Like that time I d/c at the Disc of Chaos after struggling through with 60% DP, and then didn't reconnect >.< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Viper, remember that one day we were trading random crap in the command post (don't even remember what it was), we both disconnected, and when we came back we had the trade reversed? So I did experience a rollback like that, was pretty strange...--[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 18:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No, I don't, actually :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The Lag Monster is going to eat us all!!! RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

My guess is that the rollback after spontaneous DC in certain situations was employed as a buffer against the DC duping thingimajigy. &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 22:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That or my computer fell really really really out of sync with the server. I've had similar shit happen before, but on a much shorter time scale, seconds versus minutes.  Basically, the server thinks I DC'd, but my PC still says I can keep playing, and certain types of actions (like using a skill on an enemy) will make it resync and finally tell my PC that it was DC'd, so I'll see my character teleport to some previous location and a split second later I'll see the DC screen.  But I've never heard of anything remotely like that rollback...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

GW:AGF
I apologize if I sounded grumpy on the boss talk page, as I had just answered what appeared to be identical text on my talk page. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 07:21, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It was identical, just making sure that you saw it (your talk), and any future visitors with a similar question also saw it (boss' talk). I didn't think you were grumpy at all.  :P  It just seems very odd to me that in 4 years of GW's existence, nobody noticed this before on Hoss, but they did on Fryn, and that Hoss comes out to have one more skill than Fryn.  ^_^  Sorry if I offended you by the question, this is just really odd to me, and people have been known to confuse the two before.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Not offended; just figured that (wink, wink) AGF also assumes I would get the boss talk message :-)


 * The bosses spawn in wildly different areas, some of them patrol, so I think it's easy to miss them. And how often is someone going to bring 3 caps just to confirm all the skills? I almost didn't cap Hoss in order to check that ppl didn't confuse them in the first place. I was too chicken to wait, since on my last visit, I coudn't find any of the rider bosses and wasted a skill slot on the cap.


 * And, appropos of AGF: I like your edit of the equinox note. Unfortunately, I read the equinox article; it doesn't double exhaustion, it applies it twice (before and after). So, that probably means hardly anyone besides s will ever care. For non-, you have to get hit by both equinox and arcane languor; none of the places where there's an environmental exhaustion have enemies that can cast equinox.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 07:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If one of your party members is dumb enough to cast Equinox near Glint, you will exhaust twice. It's not about how often it happens caused by enemies alone, but about how the mechanics are actually set up.  A note like that is more like a warning to not bring Equinox yourself into areas where you encounter the environmental effects/hexes that cause exhaustion, though even then it could still be beneficial to a team that somehow operates mostly on adrenaline and signets.  :P  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:09, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest posting a link if you want somebody to see a question instead of asking it twice. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 10:18, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Leave me alone, it was easier to Ctrl+A+C....V, and I'm lazy. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Right-click on the TOC, copy, then new topic, subject "See here", paste, sig, done. -- ◄mendel► 00:18, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Never thought of that. Thanks. :) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:20, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

So I did this today...
RoseOfKali 17:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * All hail Fay Hellfire, who rules!  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 05:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Lol... Well, I finally got the title.  Now to run myself to LA...  It's actually harder than it sounds with 12 armor.  >_<  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:39, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Now remember to edit your userpage and to remove the aspiring from your LDoA character's "intro" :P75.92.46.118 22:56, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, I was in the process of doing that, but didn't realize just how many pages referenced her title... >_< Oh yeah, and it got kind of overshadowed by the excitement of getting a q13 Eternal Blade on my first ever UW clear, which was almost immediately purchased by my guild leader for 92 ectos! :D:D:D  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's so much luck :P When I UWSC with my guild, everytime we have 7 members and 1 pug, the pug always get a e-blade (it happened twice two nights ago >.>).75.92.46.118 01:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

RoseOfKali 03:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Ranger Elite Studded Leather Armor
The current pictures are horrid and don't even have anti-aliasing on. I am going to retake them in a different background. Do not revert them. Thanks. MikuChan 06:14, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely agreed, that was the reason I reverted the colored ones. I didn't touch the gray ones because the old version was yellow, but I do prefer the well-done yellow versus the horrid gray.  I posted the update notes.  If you do retake them, the current ones (yellow and purple) should be used as a template, they are perfect except for the anti-aliasing and gray color.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Bureaucracy
It happens.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 03:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't just happen, it infects everything it comes in contact with. And then it claims immunity to any objections and tells you to keep waiting in hopes you die before they have to do something.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:38, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Bureaucracy, it's like Ebola, but worse.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 03:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a little closer... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, look on the bright side...no one's told you to leave yet... and now you get another six months free. ;) Maybe if you're really lucky, they will just lose the paperwork and drop your case! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If only... That's another 6 months where I can't get an engineering job with the degree that cost me 65k+ (need security clearance for like everything), that doesn't count for the limit before I can apply for residency or citizenship (required for the said security clearance), where I can't get my master's due to not being able to afford 5x higher non-resident tuition, and where neither of us knows what to do with our lives, not to mention thinking about family... And even after that, I'm still looking at 15 months more of not even being here.  Doesn't look very bright to me...  Oh yeah, and if they lose it, they will make us file it all over again.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Simply come over now, Europe is just getting warm. :) -- ◄mendel► 10:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice sunny weather. It was officially "Skirtday" in the Netherlands today. Ow, how lovely, all those girls in (rather short) skirts. Life is worth living sometimes... Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 19:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Warm weather.. right.. it peaked at +6 celsius today here in sweden and it's below 0 atm. Also, gratz on LDoA and the surviver and if you do get "deported" to Ukraine you can always sneak up to sweden, our politicians love immigrants more than they like us natives, and it's not like anyone would notice if you're up here or in Ukraine. Europe is just "one country" after all. Kurtan 20:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish that was the case, but I must spend all 15 months in my country of residence, which is Ukraine. Sadly, after 8 years, I don't even know anyone there anymore.  My grandmother is the only one left and she's sick now, my grandfather died 4 months ago, all my friends moved away, and my dad has a new family and spends most of the time working in Moscow.  This is going to be depressing...  I can see myself turning into a hermit spending all my time at the computer or sleeping.  Damn... I hope I don't get fat. :(  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'll do study-abroad in Ukraine and keep you company. (Weirder things have happened...) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm curious to hear about those "weirder" things. ^_^; RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 06:45, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Good Job...
...on the Assassin armour pictures! :D Xunlai Shadow Agent 00:09, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey you on right now? You can take some pics of my derv armor. &mdash; Balistic 00:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, XSA. :) Balistic, what one? I feel kind of sick right now, but it depends on how bad the current ones are. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Tonics page
Hi. While I appreciate your, eh, zealousness about the Tonics page, you should reconsider being so harshly defensive of a given article. It's a trend I'm beginning to notice a lot of on Wikis: if someone makes an edit you disagree with, it is reverted whole-cloth, sweeping all their time and enthusiasm right off the table as if it means nothing. Especially with statements like "broke the page to the point of fubar" or whatever, which is neither constructive nor communicative (and is in fact somewhat rude).

I perked it up a bit because the Talk page for the article had a request on it to add images, and it seemed useful to know at a glance which form you'd get from which tonic. Yes, it was incomplete, but the idea was to get it started so others would be encouraged to contribute and improve it, not erase it from existence. There are plenty of pages, on this Wiki and others, which clearly "need work". They're left because something is better than nothing for a visitor.

I have no problem with your criticizing my edit -- it was indeed imperfect. And frankly, the page itself doesn't mean enough to me to continue arguing about it (or bothering with it). I am only making a note here on your discussion page to caution you about being so curt and dismissive to other editors, especially when they're clearly trying. Wikis are neither pristine nor sacred, and being so unwilling to work with people who could potentially be enthusiastic contributors dashes the spirit of a collaborative effort like this. -- AudreyChandler 01:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry for coming off the way I did. The problem (that I mentioned in the edit summary) is that it cannot be completed with miniature images, as only part of the tonics have a corresponding mini, so mini images are not the way to go.  Also, clicking on the tonic's name will usually provide you with an image on its page.  The current table is already quite large (I'm talking about width), and it truly did look horrible in my browser size, as most of the text entries broke in 2 lines, but others didn't, and only a fraction of the images were there, making it look like a Sandbox as opposed to a complete article.  An alternate option would be to create a new table below, simply of images and tonic names underneath.  However, miniature images should not be used for it, as I already stated that they cannot complete the table (unless this changes with 4th year minis, but we have to wait and see for that).  An image of the creature embodied by the tonic is likely more appropriate.  I again apologize for my language, I am sick and likely more irritable than usual.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:15, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I did my best with the gallery: Tonic. 11 out of 18 tonics do not have an exact miniature of themselves.  I hope this compensates your time and achieves the goal of providing the images that people want.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi. Apologies first of all for my delayed response -- busy etc. Secondly, please don't feel the need to apologize or compensate me for my time; as far as the latter, it is a wiki, and a certain degree of detachment from one's contributions is necessary for good health. My primary concern was with the abruptness of your edit (in respect to being a potentially strong discouragement for new contributors), not that you did edit. You removed some changes I made which weren't problematic (such as adding icons for the Everlasting versions) and didn't really try to discuss things at all, which was my primary grumble.


 * The matter of the text breaking and the table being too wide is entirely legitimate, and is precisely the sort of dialogue I am pleased to engage in when a page change fails to live up to its expectations. For my part, it looked quite well-behaved and properly formatted, so it's good to hear of your contrary experience (assumedly, running at a different screen resolution). The matter of the minis being unacceptable in the long term is quite accurate, and I had no intention of leaving them (something I'm, ironically, at fault for not clarifying on the Talk page). They were intended to be "good enough" placeholders to encourage others to improve them or until I had time to snapshot better examples in-game (since many of the pictures on the individual tonic articles are imperfectly angled or lit).


 * The new gallery is very nicely done and a great addition to the page. :] It was in fact the compromise I was thinking of when I rolled the issue around in my head today. When I have some time, I'll try to work with the images (and/or obtain new ones in-game) to make them clearer and more visually distinctive, as well as standardize the size somewhat.


 * Do you object to me re-adding the "Form" column, sans images but with the name of the form and a link to its article? It seems to me like information that belongs there for someone scanning through the list, if it can fit without breaking things as bad as it apparently did for some viewers.


 * Lastly, again, please don't feel bad for brutally editing my contribution -- that's ofc fine on a wiki, especially if it was breaking things on your end. I just have a pet peeve about people not discussing big reverts (in regards to ones that are actually article-building, ofc), and I hope I didn't come across harsher than I intended. My work certainly isn't sacred, although your graciousness about it is quite sweet. :] -- AudreyChandler 04:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response. ^_^ And thanks for keeping a cool head about this. I overreacted on that revert, because I put in the first tonic bottle images there, making me feel a bit protective of the article (I know, silly :P), and was working on updating the dates, when I edit-conflicted with you, and all I saw was the huge mini images, I didn't even notice the everlasting bottles in the table.
 * I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by "Form." Are you wanting to link to the page of the creature created by the tonic? If so, it's probably redundant to have that info in each Tonic's article, and the Tonic table.  I'm running in 1280x1024, with the text being quite zoomed out in the browser (using the scroll wheel while holding Ctrl), but I run my browser windowed with about 10% of the screen empty on the left so I can see if someone messages me in GW while I'm editing.  The current main Tonic table takes up the entire width of my screen, and adding more columns to it would most likely break it just like the minis did, making lines break in two.  An alternate solution would be adding the name of the creature under each image of the tonic in the Gallery table, which also makes more sense to me, since you see the picture and the creature name in the same place.  Also, I set the Gallery images to a constant height of x150px, so that the rows look even, but the only way to make it look better and aligned in columns as well is if all images had the same width/height ratio, which would be hard to do with tonics like the wide Beetle Juice or Trapdoor versus the tall Boreal or Elf.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm also running 1280x1024 (Firefox 3.0) and it doesn't cause issues for me. If I reduce the window width, yes, it does start to break onto multiple lines (for instance in the Availability column), but I suspect this is true of many tables when the browser window is compressed? Anyhow, I just wanted to add in a column of what form each tonic puts you into, since the Tonic page functions as a sort of quick-reference. That way, someone can scan down the column and see all the forms available, and then scan across to see which tonic corresponds to the one that catches their eye.


 * It is getting somewhat redundant with the image gallery right below it, but it's still two different ways of presenting the information which might appeal to the preferences of different viewers. I made a version on my mockups page here (including adding back in the Everlasting icons, although the wiki is missing a few). Check it out and let me know if it deranges in your browser still, and whether it seems like a fair addition to you. -- AudreyChandler 03:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Be careful when using line breaks (&lt;br /> tags), they often don't format well (not flexible). There are other ways to keep multi-word links from breaking, and the new Tonics Navbox works like that. -- ◄mendel► 20:05, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * 3 out of 5 columns (1, 3, and 5) had a good number of broken lines. This is also the only table that I can think of that breaks for me on the wiki, even windowed.  Keep in mind, many people might still not be using such a high resolution anyway, so it would be even worse for them.  Try to refrain from creating articles that are only viewed correctly in a max full-screen resolution, as we have quite a wide audience.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I take that back. EVERY column had something broken in it.  Also, I like the third image versions a lot.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and when I did the normal tonic bottles, I also tried to do the everlasting, but found quite a lot of them were missing, so that's why I decided not to include them. If they were all there, that's a different story, but it just looks weird to me only having some of them there.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * INDENT GOES BOOM. OK so, setting aside this apparently terrible table-breaking (which may possibly be due to my knowledge of CSS/table code tending to zero in the limit), do you object to the concept of adding the "Form" column? And do you object to adding the Everlasting images since only 3 are missing at this point? I have to admit I'm having trouble seeing how adding such a small column (most "Form" entries are 1 word long) can so thoroughly destroy a table that's already so huge without my help, making me wonder if I'm just doing it wrong. -- AudreyChandler 02:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not object to concepts (unless they make absolutely no sense :P). If something seems useful to you, it probably is to other people as well.  It's just the implementation that sometimes "gets in the way", which is where we try to figure out a better way to do it.  Whenever a table doesn't fit on the screen, if there is one entry that's longer than others in the column, that's the one that will break, and so on, until the table fits.  I think one solution might be "breaking" the dates in the "Availability" columns into 2 rows instead of one - this would shrink the width considerably, and would look consistent, instead of random entries being broken here and there.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've shortened the dates. The way to keep a column from breaking is to choose the longest entry in it and replace all spaces with ; this will keep the longest entry from breaking and that will keep the column wide enough to accomodate all others. To purposely introduce line breaks is not a good idea because that makes it look bad on any size screen. -- ◄mendel► 08:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to admit that I, personally, am not bothered in the slightest by the screenshot RoseOfKali posted. It really doesn't seem to matter that a few entries break onto a second line; I was imagining a table so unreadably ganked up that it could proudly make the front page of YTMND. But that... it still presents all the information, and I wouldn't even have noticed the minor disjunctions if I was browsing to the page for the first time. Plus, I'd rather have a table break than extend off the side of the browser and force me to keep horizontal-scrolling (bleh).


 * Thank you for taking the screenshot by the way! That was very, very helpful for understanding where you're coming from. Which I apparently still don't really understand. But that's me, and I'd prefer a solution that meets everyone's needs.


 * As well, since the tonics are on a yearly/monthly cycle, do we really need the specific dates of availability? It won't be exactly the same every year (I doubt), and people can't go back in time and get the tonics "on" those specific dates anyway. The "Special event tonics" section, with its generic "Wintersday" and "Zaishen Chest", seems more appropriate. So I'd convert all the specific date ranges to just "May - June", "June - July", etc. etc. Does that seem amenable to everyone? *voice echoes* ... Does that seem amenable to RoseOfKali and Mendel? (lol) -- AudreyChandler 09:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I was thinking of asking to change it to just months as well... right before I got so sick that I spent almost 2 days in bed... :( Feeling a little better now, yay.  And the screenshot was indeed not all that "offensive" in terms of line breaks, but I guess I'm just really meticulous like that, I want things to be right, instead of doing a mediocre job and leaving it like that.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm more of a "yay, it functions, next" kind of person. lol. Anyway, I chopped the dates down to just 1 month each (which is how ANet sees it, anyway) and then split the tables since it was quite redundant to have 2 "Availability" columns for the ZChest tonics. Check it out and tell me what you think. -- AudreyChandler 00:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, me likey that. I fixed a couple minor things, hope you don't mind.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Tenetke
Ohai I'm not trying to start wiki drama, but I was wondering if you could explain to me what you don't like about my proposal of using his images as the "main" image which is used to see what the weapon in question looks like which is the strenght of his style and using the dyeable section to keep the current style for scaling purposes and whatnot. Be grateful if you have the time to reply, and thanx for reading. --> Suicidal Tendencie 19:50, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As I explained before in that thread, the weapon articles are already quite inconsistent. Many of them don't have the Isle of the Nameless image, and even more don't have a dye chart.  I like Tenetke's images, but putting them as main in those articles would make them even more inconsistent than they already are.  Due to the fact that Tenetke is taking his own images, he would have to get close to every weapon in the game to complete his "project."  This, undoubtedly, would take a long time.  So, for now, I would prefer to use his images as an alternate, instead of primary, especially for the pages that don't have a dye chart.
 * Also, I don't want to start any kind of drama... That's the reason I stopped replying there. Just voiced my opinion and let the rest decide on what they want.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you.
 * Sorry to bug you, one more thing. If he had the picture for every weapon in the game (or bloody close...), would that solve the problem, or would you prefer we do not change the current "format" of weapons pages? --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 12:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If he had at least 2/3 of the images, it would probably be reasonable to start changing the ones that do have a dye chart. If the weapon is not dyeable, a simple image of "This weapon equipped on a character" or something like that would suffice.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you once again. Happy Easter. --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 19:58, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I spent most of it in bed sick, but thanks. ^_^ Happy belated. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear it. Hope you're feeling better. --> ST [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 01:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I finally am, on Tuesday night. Thank you. :) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars Wiki's weapon pages have direct renders that we are expressly denied from using. There is no way to better showcase a weapon on its own than that. It would be bad for both wikis to have the same style of weapon images, because they can do it better and they're more easily accessed by players. One of the main reasons players still come to GuildWiki is because our weapon (and armor) screenshots are taken in-game, with player bodies and background for reference. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Felix... I just explained my point in a different discussion and didn't seem to get it across to anyone involved, so I gave up resisting and tried to make the evil as little as possible... :( I absolutely despise the official wiki's armor galleries, they make me sick. >_< Haven't looked at weapons yet, but I do heavily prefer them in a "natural" setting versus an isolated "lab" type one. When taken correctly, they look just as good, without sacrificing any relation to the game and the character. For example: the tormy longbow or all the other tormies me and other players have taken look about as crisp and clear as it can get, and many other weapons are the same way (save for the tormy short/recurve bow - they are a disgrace and I can't find anyone to pose for me).  That is the standard I think we should strive for. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * To expand on the concept of the two wikis having different styles being a good thing, the GWW renders and Tenetke's cropping style make it easier to appreciate the art of the weapon itself, but our style of screenshot makes it easier to appreciate the way the weapon interacts with Guild Wars' ambient art. As things stand right now, players have the option of seeing the weapon either way. If we replaced ours, they would lose that option. I see no problem with having both styles of images on our wiki, however- that would slightly improve our demographic appeal. Addendum: It would also be a decent project for GuildWiki editors to work on together. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still excited that someone agrees with me on keeping the current ones! :D (Well, the good ones, anyway.) I don't see how this is truly a community project, since it requires high skills in image editing that most people don't have (I don't even know where to begin with something like this).  The community part may be providing the actual weapons, though - the high end skins will get tricky quick.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Felix, any suggestions on incorporating both styles?
 * 2) And why are the armor pics taken with both sand and ocean in the background? Just curious. --> ST [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 05:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC) btw Rose, I never said we couldn't keep the current ones, just that I would like to try and get his pics in too, if possible - and as far as I know he hasn't gotten back to us yet about if he'd doing such a huge amount, either -->05:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The weapon infoboxes are already configured to display multiple images, so it's no problem adding the isolated image right below the current one. The armor shots are taken that way because of perspective- there would be no way to exclude the ocean without taking what amounts to a birds-eye view screenshot, which obviously doesn't give a good portrayal of the armor. 05:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, somewhere someone said that they wanted Tenetke's images as main, and I was sick and didn't want to start another power struggle, so I just tried to minimize the effects of this and make sure it is done right and at the right time. When it was still a "use both" discussion, I offered to put them somewhere else in the article.
 * There is no way, as Felix said, to take an armor screenshot at the correct angle and exclude the sea, the sky, or the sand. Possible with weapons, but not with full armor.  However, all 3 are very calm, neutral colors.
 * And it sounds fine to put the new image right below the current one in the infobox, except for one problem: both will show up in the Staff/Gallery et. al. as separate weapons... Maybe right below the infobox?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure mendel or someone can find a way around that. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)