User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 4

Lolpreview
Even though most of those edits are normal or human-bot-mode. But that's not the point ;) --- -- (s)talkpage  16:52, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay, new userboxes are always shiney! :D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And actually, I do use show preview somewhat often, but I usually don't bother with it on smaller edits ("What could I possibly have messed up with that little change?" >.>) or when using templates I think I'm familiar with. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Glad you like it (even though you altered it to a little less blunt ;) ). I generally use Show Preview when I make an edit with a ton of links, cause I often flunk those >.> And when I use several indents, to make it look at least a little good (i.e., not one word on a new line, then starting a new paragraph. Looks blehh) ^^' --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Less blunt and more accurate. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:48, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Lies. All lies. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * LIES AND SLANDER! (with a hint of pie!) Jink 20:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What about cake? Random Time  20:15, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The cake is a lie, of course. Duh. Jink 20:18, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Cake is fine with me. It's Pie that can control me...  I should not have said that.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ  20:21, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone make a Pie MTG card --Gimmethegepgun 20:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Entrea pie card.jpg|100px]] Someone made one! YAY! --Gimmethegepgun 00:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Viper, I hate to disappoint you, but if you run your browser fullscreen, you should experiment with shrinking it to a window and playing with the width. Unless you are inside a block with a fixed width, preferably in em or ex, you can't predict how many words will be on that line for the next viewer. If you must avoid single word lines, don't use plain space between the last three words of a paragraph, use &amp;nbsp; instead.
 * --◄mendel► 21:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I know that. I run windowed, cause I like the taskbar, so to say >.>
 * Still, as long as it's aesthetically pleasing to me, it's fine to me. However obvious you find that statement, I leave to you. Besides, remembering some obscure command is hard for lazy people ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not obscure. & nbsp; = non-breaking space. The ampersand sets off the code, and the semi-colon ends it. &mdash; Powersurge360  21:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * & rarr; = Right Arrow (larr = Left Arrow etc). Which is logical. nbsp is just some string of letters to me. Oh, and somehow a part of my message above got left out O_o" I don't exactly recall what's missing, but it involved resolution (since that also matters). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  08:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Why?
Doesn't harm anyone last time I checked... --- -- (s)talkpage  17:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because Rose said I should. >.> I guess it does just clutter RC even more than I'm already doing, though.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, she only is saying "I want (emphasis on want) it just in the Upload log, so I remove the Summary", not "It shouldn't show up on the page besides the log". --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:20, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I just like pinning the blame on other people. <.< &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I've seen people get upset at other uploaders and myself for renaming their images without credit. And leaving the note in the Summary (which is placed automatically, unfortunately) is not right.  But, I guess, afterall, we can always slap them with "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." So yeah, it's just a courtesy thing, nothing else. Like I said before, I try to do it for the "good" images that will likely be permanent, but usually don't bother with placeholders. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If that line of text is in the summary, you're giving them credit, right? Don't see why it isn't "right", but might just be me. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  17:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Leaving it in the Summary isn't right, because the Summary should reflect the essence of the image, not who uploaded it. You're basically saying "This is an image that was originally uploaded by so-and-so."  This is NOT a good summary for an image.  The upload log is the only place that keeps track of who uploaded an image, and if it has the second uploader's name with the original uploader's name next to it, I think that's the proper way to do it, or don't do it at all.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The essence of the image is usually given in the form of a caption on pages it's used, explanation (talk pages) or it's so dead-obvious it's not necessary to have a summary saying "this is a pic of X doing Y" though. --Shadowcrest  18:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, in most cases, yes, it is dead-obvious, and there shouldn't be a summary at all. I don't see why a single enty to RC makes such a big difference.  Anyway, there's no point in discussing this so much, it's personal preference, and I will continue doing it, but others don't have to.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not going to do it for the armor gallery reuploading so I don't kill RC. This way I only create two entries per image (delete/upload) instead of three (delete/upload/edit).  Both deletions and uploads are easy to skip over in RC because the line is formatted differently, doubly so if you use Enhanced RC, but single edits to many different articles aren't. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dr ishmael (contribs).


 * I would have thought that fixing image naming would have better been done when that fabled update to mediawiki which allows image moving came along <_< Jennalee 23:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * We don't know when the next version of MediaWiki will be released (or even if said feature will make it into the final build), much less when Wikia will get around to implementing it. I saw no point waiting for something that might not even happen.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Language links
I'd appreciate it if you could comment on the new developments/my suggestion at Suggestions/I18n_template and its talk page. --◄mendel► 16:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

We need...
A "Hide Dr ishmael's edits" button for RC :P --Gimmethegepgun 22:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you send him some pie in the mail, he'll make you some javascript that modifies your RC on the fly to hide these edits. ;-) --◄mendel► 22:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, pie is Giga's weakness. We don't know how it will affect Ishy.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  23:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I will never reveal my weakness! >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * A similar feature has been previously requested, but the Big Chicken decided we didn't have enough resources available to develop it. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, last time I switched to my bot account for the rest of that project (updating ULC-ed categories), dunno if that would be acceptable for this project, though. I couldn't delete the images, for one thing.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And since you've already mentioned stuff about evil plans, we definitely can't give the bot the ABILITY to delete stuff :P --Gimmethegepgun 04:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Meh, I'm not gonna worry about it. Of course, I've still got 9 professions to go, so if you people think it's annoying enough, you could always poke the Beercrat.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Animated Hero Bug Category
I noticed you didn't talk the talk here - it's too late for that now, but I moved the whole diff dialogue to the talkpage anyhow.

Oh, and could you please comment on Category talk:Animated? Does your objection still stand? --◄mendel► 02:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Short answer: "Animated" is a stupid name for a category. Wikia is frustrating me with its slow response times right now, so I don't feel like coming up with a better response on that issue.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:25, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

more about armor templates
Just wanted to say, first of all, that you're doing a great job with updating all the armor pages with templates and new crafting tables. I like that you changed the armor template to "align images by height" instead of width, but you forgot to do the same for headgear images, as can be seen on Ranger_Monument_armor, for example. I prefer to let you handle all this, since I haven't looked at exactly what you did with the code, and I don't want to mess stuff up. Thanks again for the great job you're doing. RoseOfKali 17:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * On that topic: Ranger armor has some red links, so to say... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  17:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Every time I saw a gallery like that I thought, "I should go and make the headgear images fixed-height, too," but I never got around to it. I'll do that now.
 * And I am going to update all the armor index pages to use the correct images, I just had to go to a meeting, then to lunch, then actually do some work before getting back to the wiki. (I'm a major slacker when it comes to my real job, if you hadn't already figured that out. :P)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, head images changed to fixed-height. The current settings are x375px for full-body images and x125px for head images.  If anyone thinks these need to be changed for any reason, let me know.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

House
Wow. Congrats :> I hope the moving over goes well! --- -- (s)talkpage  14:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Where will you be living? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We're moving from Little Rock up to Conway, AR. It's a really nice city of just over 50,000, and it's where we both went to college, at Hendrix College (we met there, but we didn't start dating each other until after we'd graduated).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, the good old days... (you asked for it ^^) Ignoring the fact I probably wasn't aware America existed back then. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It didn't exist back then, Viper. You're forgetting how old Ish is. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, right, because the college was floating in the middle of the sea, unsupported whatsoever, and Ish and his wife miraculously appeared there in a puff of logic, and studied. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Considering the other feats documented in my biography, that actually sounds pretty plausible. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument follows:  "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."  "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it?  It could not have evolved by chance, thus proving that you exist, therefore by your own arguements, you don't.  QED."  "Oh, dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. -- D. Adams
 * Stop stealing phrases from my userpage without at least referencing the author, Viper. :> Also, GL in your new/old home, Doc! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * /pout, you caught me. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually I floated in on a large scallop shell towed by dire trilobites. Jink 19:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

random halp
User:Entropy/NFT - why so many skillbars show up with "No icon for this skill" when that's clearly not the case? Too many of them on the page? (T/C) 15:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's it. I saw the same thing when I was on the build redlinks crusade - people would have 20 or so build articles all smashed together in one userpage (HATE HATE HATE), and the latter half of the page would have hardly any icons in the skill bars.  It's probably something to do with the high number of #ifexist calls, even though it's not enough to trigger the warning message.
 * We could make an alternative skill bar template without the #ifexist's, to be used only in cases where you know that the skill and matching icon actually exist. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait - the "too many #ifexist calls" warning only shows up when you edit the page (similar to the "this page is too long" warning, which that page also gets), it says you have 235 on there. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hrm...well I can't think of a fix without making a new template, because there is no other clean and pretty way to display skills while saving excessive scrolling. Strangely, the page didn't used to break. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think, before we got bought by Wikia, the #ifexist limit was 500 (I've seen comments implying that on talk pages somewhere), but here on Wikia it's only 100. Maybe we just need to bug Kyle to get them to raise the limit back to 500.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * pvx:User:Entropy/NFT imo :P I don't think PvXcode has a limit, it'll just take a long time to load and the bbcode doesn't start working until everything's loaded. You could also try just putting the builds the enemies use on a different page, which would help some. Maye several different pages :(  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 16:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Just bug Kyle. Less effort. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

gw2w
have you had a peak at gw2w? Your name has come up in talks about sysops and I think you're ability to like organize and clean stuff up would be especially helpful over there in setting up something new. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 02:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Seconded.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 02:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That makes me laugh slightly. It hardly seems like they have enough stuff there to warrant talk about sysops. Heck, the whole wiki is just a consolidation of the GW2 related lore from other sources. All the same, if they feel they need another admin, Ishy's a good choice.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  02:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I sort of share Entrea's feelings - I hadn't given much thought to GW2W since the game is still at least a year away from release. Also, there's still so much to do here, that I didn't want to get involved somewhere else just yet.  But if y'all want me along for the ride, just point me in the right direction - i.e., where are these talks you mentioned?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

relinking Throne Of Secrets
I didn't see a section on GuildWiki talk:Bot_tasks/Relinking_moved_pages for actually relinking pages that have already been moved, so I thought I'd request that one here (feel free to move this thataway). has been moved to Throne Of Secrets in December 2006, so it'd be a good idea to check if Anet hasn't actually fixed the name in the meantime. --◄mendel► 13:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The official wiki still has it at GWW:Throne of Secrets, but in the Gw.dat files, the name is Throne Of Secrets. If I had more time, I'd take a character through Abaddon's Gate and get 100% screenshot proof, but I don't.  I might have time to run AWB on that later today, or it might have to wait until tomorrow.  (And I'd say you can use Bot tasks/Relinking moved pages for pages that have been moved at any time.)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but...
I'm new to this and I been trying to set up my userpage. I tried that character template which you linked to for your credits, but when I fill it out, the link is red and directs me to the page where it says something like: "The page you clicked is removed/non existant." Any ideas of how to avoid that? Also how exactly do you make/get those userboxes? (Sorry if I mess this up too by the way.) Kennenth 17:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nobody asks for wikicode assistance on Request assistance - I wonder why that is? Anyhow, I'm going to have a look - I'll be right over. --◄mendel► 17:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

HALP!
Happen to have any level 20 toons with The Villainy of Galrath active? I need the modified instance to clear the vanq H/H way. You don't even have to do anything, just go AFK and get a free vanq, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360  00:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've got a few. I'm heading out right now for an hour or so, if you can wait until I get back.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Special:Wantedpages
I thought tehre was a move to get rid of the build redlinks from wanted pages by a bot or some such thing? I went over to look at it to see how much red-linkage we were looking at for the MOX stuff and it was all cluttery with build links still. Am I crazy or could you just refresh me on whatever we were doing with this? &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 13:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Dammit, I thought I was done with that... where the hell did all those come from? I'll just blame it on Wikia... I'm sure it's their fault somehow. >.>  I don't care enough anymore to worry about relinking any of them to PvX, I'm just going to obliterate the links with AWB; unfortunately, I can't run AWB at work because of our stupid company-wide firewall.  Blarg.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Can't even get around a firewell? :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember some Wikia thing where the list of wanted pages or something won't show you the full list beyond a certain number of pages until you fix all those. Maybe that was the problem. Or perhaps you didn't fix links like this: SS Nuker which get renamed within the link? I dunno...Anyway, so you are just going to remove the sets of brackets , correct? Later on, when there is no more pressing project, I suppose another bot round could take all those text and link them to PvX. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I checked a few of 'em, and they're mostly in the userspace.. You did run over them, so I checked some out from [1]. The DeletedLink templates are registered as wantedpages? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I hope this doesn't require someone versed in the ways of the Mediawiki. What we have is the reverse situation that Iran into when DPL-ing the non-orphaned artciles: then, links would register when I first did them, only to disappear later; here, they disappeared, only to unfortunately reappear. My suggestion: make all missing build pages redirects to a page that says, in essence: "this build has been deleted in the , go look for it on, please." --◄mendel► 17:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No. We don't need to create 100+ worthless redirect pages just to deal with these stupid build links, they simply need to be removed (we actually had a discussion about this before, can't remember where).  If DeletedLink isn't working right (which totally defeats its purpose), I'll just have to delink them completely.  I doubt very many people even look at these pages anymore in any case - if I went totally bonkers and deleted all of the userspace build archives, I bet I'd get maybe 1 or 2 complaints.
 * A good compromise might be to delink all build links, as I plan to do anyway, then post a notice at the top of the page similar to what mendel suggested. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I suggest keeping on using DeletedLink, the advantage is that you can edit that now to not link at all any more, and thus fix the immediate problem in one fell swoop. --◄mendel► 21:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there someway we can have the entire namespace point to a single page? Also, if they are categories, just outright delete the reference. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 21:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Categories -> delete, check. How about templates (Template:Build archive, etc.), delete them too?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Move the templates into obsolete templates cat? I don't see why redirect pages are "worthless", they preserve integrity of sorts for external links, creating a redirect page takes less resources than editing a wiki page, and it doesn't actually load the server in a noticeable way, certainly less than a DeletedLink call does. It's a solution. Click away on the wantedpages, copy&paste the redirect to the warning page, and I can have these manually botted fast and efficiently. Or make a page list from Wantedpages, filter by build: namespace, and have AWB do it. It works, it is efficient, it has the benefit of keeping links elsewhere from the intarweb not pointing into space. --◄mendel► 22:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What would happen if Template:DeletedLink rewrote the link to use a http: style URL? Do these still redlink? If they don't, the functionality is not too bad, because a reader can click and doesn't notice when the page exists and gets a 404 when the page doesn't. Can we customize our mediwiki message for nonexisting pages (do you wnat to create this page?) so that it discourages creatingthat page if it starts with build: ? --◄mendel► 22:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say either do the redirect (Maybe to GW:BUILD?) or just change Deletedlink to remove the #ifexists function altogether. If you just have the template always link to the deletion log, problem solved. It seems like that function was always kind of pointless, since the template should (in theory) only be used on redlinks.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  22:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We've used it on some talkpages to avoid redlinking for pages we proposed creating, if memory serves. --◄mendel► 23:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Mendel, you don't know the history of this issue. Back in April, Warwick started doing exactly what you are proposing to do - and she was stopped, and the pages re-deleted, because literally everyone else argued against it.  So to fix the issue, I proposed writing a bot script that would take the links and rewrite them, either with a link to PvX (based on a build correspondence list drawn up by Wizardboy777) or with a DeletedLink.  I wish we'd know back then that DeletedLink doesn't really work, then I could've just de-linked everything from the beginning.  Which I still say is the best solution now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That list only had ones with 10+ links, if memory serves. Might've been 5. But I definitely didn't get all of them.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 02:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It was 10+, and I think that was enough - don't do any more unless you want to. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just redirect the rest to a Mending Frenzy Healsig Warrior with description "This build was so bad it never made it into the mainstream" [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Heh, that's what probably 50% of them were anyway - and taking the present state of the game, most of the rest would be too, due to all the skill updates since then. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Sabway
I've been doing some research on popular builds like sabway, imbagon, etc. and considering the current state of a lot of the skills I frnakly cannot see how they are so good. Meh. Skuld's Para build still ownz though. (T/C) 05:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sabway is awesome because you have a great defense and good damage with only 3 heroes used (less proficient in 4 man areas, you will need some alterations :P ). Soul Reaping gives them all the Energy they need to perform well. I fondly recall running 3 or 4 MMs + Sabway with Prog and rolling through Tyria like a.. Idk what, but it's fast. It's great to see a monster targetted by most Minions and Barbs, then just laying dead moments later. I ramble on too much. Sorry :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess I will have to try it. I just don't understand how it could work...where do you get enough bodies for 4 MMs anyway? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 4 MMs? o_O Not in the Sabway I know.  Sabway is 1 MM, 1 SS, and 1 Restoration healer.  The rest of the party slots should be damage-dealers, although at least 1 additional heal or prot monk is usually advised.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I am just thinking that if you ran a solid Curses SS and a solid Restoration Rit, it would be more effective. MMs usually don't use all eight skill slots so I can see there being room for spare utility...especially on a Bomber. I've never ran a serious build using primary and secondary profession skills, unless it was for something unlinked like Wild Blow or very gud like Mending Touch (or something OP like Scythe Sin)... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You might want to look at this build on PvX, then, it's exactly what you're saying: Curses SS, Resto N/Rit, and a Minion Bomber that has half a bar for utility skills. And that's what I've always known as Sabway.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Whuu? I was under the impression that Sabway and Triple Necro Vanquish were identical things. That's what I always see in-game too. PvX and Viper seem to say otherwise... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I suk. Nevermind. We should put a tag on this whole subheader. :L [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Trip Nec Vanquish and Sabway are thesame :) PvX just refrains from referring to a build-creator in PvE builds. It's fine in PvP builds though, for some reason. As I said above, I ran 3 or 4 MMs in addition to Sabway. There were enough corpses because the only Minionspells we had were Bone Minions and Flesh Golems, thus using corpses to full efficiency ;) And Rt/N's cannot hold more than 7 Minions or something close to that. Maybe 8, not sure about the Death Magic stuff. Also, you forgot to close the fail tag, now everything below is fail too! Onoz~ --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * D'oh, I missed that part of your comment too, otherwise I could've clarified everything for Entropy a lot sooner. /facepalm Giga's the one who added the fail tag, and it is closed - right after Entropy's comment about adding the fail tag in the first place.  But now, since I failed too, I'm going to move it to right after this comment, just to confuse you. :P  Anyway, 4 MM's + Sabway sounds like a lot of fun... too bad my wife doesn't like Hard mode and won't vanquish with me. >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Userboxes question
How do you get those userboxes? I'm gonna try to make my user page uber cool, but I don't know how to get all that cool stuff on there. could someone let me know how?75.45.245.244 01:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just click any of the "[edit]" links on my userpage to look at the code, then copy whatever you want and modify it to use on your userpage. You'll have to register an account in order to have a userpage, of course.  Userboxes, specifically, usually use the  template - look at the documentation there to learn how to use it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Tyvm, and sry about the IP address, I forgot to sign in lol :O Fire Drake 01:12, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed your fail link, ishy.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  02:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I always forget to remove the pipe when I initially type a wiki-link and then have to replace it with a standard link. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Too much working with templates does that. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Pipes, pipes, everywhere! And not a plumber in sight!  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:52, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hehe :p I'll give you another point if you can tell me the real-life city where Mario comes from. Also: "God doesn't exist. And just try to find a plumber on weekends!" [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Brooklyn? That's where they lived in The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, but I don't know if they were supposed to have been born there.  Also: Woody Allen = pwnage.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:47, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You win two points. :> But you won't know this. "Two rights don't make a wrong, they make an airplane." [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

wah!
Dammit, why do the updates always happen while I'm eating dinner?! >:( /fistshake  &mdash;Dr Ishmael  01:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So that I get to increase my editcount instead of you :P --Gimmethegepgun 01:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've always known Anet was against me - constantly nerfing farming runs the day after I get the right character to the right place with the right skills - now they're nerfing my editcount farming! Curses!  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Pirates have invaded Gw.dat!
New text strings found in Gw.dat:
 * Bottle[pl:"Bottles"] of Grog
 * Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Grog
 * You are drunk on pirate grog. WARNING: Drinking pirate grog can cause you to spontaneously spout piratical non sequiturs. Do not attempt to wield weapons or ride siege devourers while under the influence of grog as drinking and adventuring can be hazardous to your health.

Whatever could this mean? >.> &mdash;Dr Ishmael  01:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * : O Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 01:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Next thing you know they will have ninja tonic too! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They need to make a PIRATES VS NINJAS!!!! arena --Gimmethegepgun 02:29, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean like Luxan Warriors vs Kurzicks Assassins? d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 02:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * *Luxon [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Need something a little more impressive than a Kurzick Assassin to make a ninja though... --Gimmethegepgun 02:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Am Fah Assassin. Unsuspecting Strike, Fox Fangs, Blinding Powder...they got Ninja all over them! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Except last I knew ninjas weren't secluded albinos who probably don't know what the sun looks like, and last I knew ninjas DID own Samurai with their mad skillz. And MythBusters. --Gimmethegepgun 03:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Samurai have the Samurai Shield for +50% evade and the Samurai Bow for damage to 1 enemy group, though. Plus the Masamune which deals Mortal Blow to human foes. Ninjas got nothing on that. Also, Am Fah don't sing at trees. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Lou, of the Knives is FAR more ninja-ey than any Kurzick at least he makes a ninja-ey entrance :P --Gimmethegepgun 03:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The  Battle Vs. Lou is awesome. Wing, Three Blade loses because of Flashing Blades. You can get 4% Moral Boost also. Did I mention that I got a Lou's Karambits during that mission? M.O.X. is good for something. :> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ogden Stonehealer has e-leet Ninja Boots tbh :) Just give him a nice entrance and boot-attacks. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  06:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoa, just had a totally awesome idea - Ogden crossed with Chuck Norris = SUPER ROUNDHOUSE KICK OF DEATH AND DISMEMBERMENT! &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ogden has R10 KoaBD? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Provided he could find a step ladder beforehand. &mdash; Powersurge360  17:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Orite, so it would mostly be Super Roundhouse Kick of Dismemberment. Don't mess with Ogden Norris if you value your legs... or genitals.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

GW.dat
What do you use to pull things out of the .dat file? Typical editor? (T/C) 04:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nuu! I dun wanna give away all my secrets! >.>  <.<  I use three different programs, actually, depending on what I'm trying to get and how I want to go about getting it.
 * GW-Unpacker is a command-line program in C++ that simply extracts every single file and sorts them into folder by type (texture vs sound vs text etc.; textures are further sorted by compression type and level). You can tell it what file index to start from and stop at, but that's not usually very useful. It comes packaged with a utility called ATEXReader that converts the raw ATEX and ATTX textures into png files.
 * I actually have a custom version of this compiled that only extracts the text files, then I have a Perl script that parses all of those and picks out the English ones and reformats them to be readable, which I then compare to the previous build's files to see what changed. That's how I can get the updated skill descriptions so quickly.
 * GWDatBrowser is a graphical program that lets you browse through the whole dat file, it will play sound files, render textures (for most compressions), and display other files in a hex editor. Slightly more useful that GW-Unpacker if you know the general area of your gw.dat file you want to look in, but still somewhat clunky - there's no folder structure within gw.dat, so you just get a list of 160,000+ files.
 * 3D Ripper DX is a wrapper program that hooks into Gw.exe and extracts fully rendered textures from your video card's memory while the game is running. It can either capture all textures that get loaded or only the textures on-screen when you hit a configurable hotkey.  It's definitely the quickest way to get the specific textures you want, and the only way to get the in-game versions of skill icons (the versions in gw.dat are somewhat dull, apparently they have extra "glow" textures or processing added to them before they are displayed in-game).
 * And now I seriously hope I haven't been ec'ed after all that... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That looks fun. :) I know one particular file that I want to get - the music which normally plays in Kaineng Center and such areas. Apparently it is not part of the official soundtrack CDs. (On the other hand, there are a lot of music in those that I've never even heard before.) I am also thinking of Photoshop opportunities that one could do with raw stuff from the .dat ... or use the sounds for stuff...etc. By the way, what's the legality of dissecting the .dat ? :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've recently taken to using TexMod to the same end that you use 3DRipper; it lets you browse the on-screen textures in logging mode if you hit * and then walk through them with + and - (use the numpad keys, dunno how that works on teh laptop), and you can save the one you need. It also replaces the currently selected texture with green in the scene, so if you want a specific texture, you can just hold down + until it flashes green, and then back up with - until you have it.
 * Legal issues: INAL, but I think teh following might apply: ANet has given me the textures with the client download, so if I can download the client from an ANet-authorized source without agreeing to anything, they're mine to personally use; if I have agreed to a license, I'm bound by that; and for publication rights (i.e. posting them anywhere on the web), I need to fall back on fair use or on ANet not pursuing their rights, much as we do with every GW picture on the wiki that's not in the fansite kit. --◄mendel► 11:03, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as you don't misuse any of the game assets (try to sell them as your own work, etc.), I'm pretty sure this is all covered by the reverse engineering clause of copyright law. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, TexMod can be used similarly to 3DRipper, the main difference being that with TexMod, you have to cycle through all the currently-displayed textures to find the one you want - usually there are ~200 textures on-screen, and the green overlay isn't always obvious on some textures, which can make it somewhat difficult to work with. 3DRipper saves all the textures to your hard drive, which are easier for me to pick through, especially since I usually know the size of the texture I'm looking for (skill and inventory icons, the main things I capture from in-game, are 5kB).  They're saved as .dds (DirectDraw) files, I use a plugin for the GIMP to read them.  The main drawbacks to 3DRipper are that it won't re-extract a texture it has previously extracted (until you restart the program) and that it can cause graphical glitches, the most common for me is a "white-out" where the entire GW window goes white.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we must do a competition sometime when you've got irc access again: somebody names some tectures, and we'll see who can rip them the fastest. ;-) --◄mendel► 16:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Danika's face. 5 minutes. Go! :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A) that would take me 5 days, and B) face textures look ugly because they're meant to wrapped around the head model. --◄mendel► 17:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Who cares, I bet it would be an improvement for Danika. Maybe then someone could work it into the Wall of Illusion card. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 5 days? Do you not have a character far enough in Factions or something?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't played Factions much, and the other household members who do play Luxon. I'd have to check how far along they are on the Kurzick side. 5 days translates to 10 hours or so. --◄mendel► 17:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Raisu Palace would work, no? I would say I could reach Arborstone in a day (from Kaineng Center), but that all depends on Vizunah Square. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

New Tonic is mine
ZChest was nice to me again. So, need a pix and info on emotes available? --- -- (s)talkpage  14:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We've got a picture already, and I couldn't get a good screenshot until tonight anyway (work laptop has crappy graphics with shared memory, I can load GW, but that's about it). I think the current picture is acceptable, although it could do without the dervish in the background, so if you want to do this tonight (after ~22:30 UTC), that would be fine.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 22 UTC eh. That's in 7 hours, which means... past midnight? Sorry, school tomorrow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

RC
This is why I want bots with sysop powers. (T/C) 17:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Then pimp my bot already. :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikia does not like it. But now you gave me another userbox to make. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hrm, I could edit the page and upload the image with the bot account, then you'd only see the deletions - which I could do all at once to make it easy to scan over them in RC. Yay, time for botting!  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You know how to do mass batch deletions? o_O [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I just know how to exploit tabbed browsing: set up all the pages I want to delete, go through all the tabs and set the delete reason and comment, then go through again and click Delete, then watch the reactions of other GWikians as they see 20+ images deleted in under a minute. >:D &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have tried that before and I find it to be really slow. :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Extension:Nuke :P  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be so helpful. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's so epic. --Shadowcrest  01:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it looks like all Nuke is useful for is vandals - the only criteria is a username or IP address. Extension:NukeDPL would be more useful, but it can only delete articles, so I'd still need something for mass image deletions.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was working just fine for me - took maybe 4 minutes total to set up and delete all the Factions images, where if I'd deleted each individual in sequence, it would've taken maybe 10 minutes. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Show-off :o [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh :P Just now I deleted all the Nightfall and EotN images together - 34 images - and I actually went fast enough that I overloaded the database and 6 of them threw an error.  I didn't think to get a screenshot, but the message was something like, "SQL error: Deadlock encountered when attempting to obtain lock on table ..."  Yeah... >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Double exit trivia
There are a few more. Can you find them? 05:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What are "double exit trivia"? Cursed Lands → Black Curtain? Vehtendi Valley → Yahnur Market? --◄mendel► 11:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC) & 12:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Holy crap, I forgot all of the Nightfall ones: Yahnur Market, Tihark Orchard, Grand Court of Sebelkeh, The Mouth of Torment, and I guess Gate of Anguish (since all four parts of DoA are actually part of a single explorable area). Sifhalla had the original note, and I added Brauer Academy.  Wonder if that's still worth noting, since there's actually seven of them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Does it have a use at all? Can your party spawn through both portals at once? (I doubt it.) It does make sense to note that an explorable has two exits to teh same destination, because in some cases this means you can choose the one that's easier to reach. When you're in an outpost, it's not hard to figure out where the exits are. I suggest adding a (2x) to the infobox where the neighbors are listed to denote the dual exit. You can then DPL the infoboxes if you want a full list. ;-P --◄mendel► 14:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Anomalies in Category:Skill templates
See GuildWiki_talk:Style_and_formatting/Disambiguation. --◄mendel► 09:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Image:AvatarofGrenth.jpg
Thanks for catching that 8 hours before I got to it. ;-) I'll see what other surprises await. --◄mendel► 09:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Giga caught it first, on Image:Avatar of Dwayna.JPG, but for some reason he didn't think to check the other Avatar skills. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Argh, that is mean - these two files only differ by .jpg vs. .JPG - no wonder I haven't caught that even on this morning's review (though I caught Image:MasterofMagic.jpg and some others. I had to run ANets filenames (and ours) through tolower to increase the number of hits. --◄mendel► 18:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I really wish there was a setting in MediaWiki to force lower-case extensions on uploaded files, there's absolutely no reason to let them to be uppercase. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

auto-tagged images and CfD
Automatically tagged images don't show up in the candidates for deletion page despite being in the category. Take Image:SOI_bad_width_of_template.png for example. It's been tagged since July 2nd, but since it never showed up in the CfD page, it's still there. Even though it's listed as being in the category at the bottom of the page. Discuss. --Shadowcrest 03:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are you telling me? >.> I didn't write that template, and I don't know of any way to make it work as-is.  One way to fix it is to rewrite it so that it places the delete tag immediately, then we just have to rely on the admins having the common sense to actually look over the page to make sure  days have passed when they check it for deletion.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wasn't sure if it was a template problem or a wikia problem. If it was the former, you're the go-to person to ask, and I wouldn't want to bother Kyle to have him say it's our problem. --Shadowcrest 04:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) You don't know how to fix it? But you're the freakin' wizard! Oh god, black is white, up is down! &mdash; Powersurge360  04:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And I nearly didn't just kick a small child! I still did it, but it was a close call!  Save us Ishy!--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ  04:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, alright, I fixed it. :P And now, time for a song!

Everything you know is wrong! Black is white, up is down, and short is long And everything you used to think was just so important doesn't matter Everything you know is wrong! Just forget the words and sing along All you need to understand is everything you know is wrong!
 * I'd offer 10 points to anyone who gets the reference, but y'all are weird enough that it's probably al ready a staple on everyone's playlists. :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I used to have that album but my sister lit it on fire. "Everything you know is wrong" Bad hair day, Weird Al (obviously).&mdash; Powersurge360  05:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha, I still have mine. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Chibi Saber doesn't show up. Discuss. --Shadowcrest  16:20, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's also a candidtae for deletion because "No reason given", and looking at, it should have a reason in there.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 17:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Shows up for me on FF3, and showed up on FF2 if I recall correctly. --◄mendel► 17:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a bug in how I used the #time: function, not sure how it happened. The delete reason should be working now.
 * As for why the images that already used the template aren't in the category, it's the same reason as before. MediaWiki only updates link tables and category listings when a page is edited - even if the conditions for an if statement in a template change at a later date, MW will not reprocess the page until it is edited.  So someone should null-edit everything that currently transcludes the template so that they show up in the proper categories.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And why didn't you tell me that before? :P --Shadowcrest  20:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Please see...
Talk:Necromancer_Elite_Scar_Pattern_armor/Female. I think you missed something when you added the Necro Elite Scars exception for the undyeable Male set. RoseOfKali 00:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Somehow I converted the parameter to .  Oops. >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hehe, I couldn't figure out what exactly you did, it looked right to me, so I'm glad you caught that one. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd noticed in my work on this template that the parameters were all title-cased, which is odd because most other templates have all-lowercase parm names. So I immediately knew the cause once you pointed out the error.
 * Usually, if a template is displaying instead of the parm's value, then either 1) the parm was not supplied to the template or 2) the parm name in the template is incorrect (misspelled/miscapped).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Submitted for your amusement...
A conversation I just had with my wife.

me: *misspells Lava Font as "Lava Fong"* "Hm, Lava Fong."

her: "Wait, Lava Thong?"

me: "Uh... well, Cynn's hot enough, she probably has one."

her: "I bet Mhenlo's all like, 'How the hell do I get this off her butt?'"

me: "... Extinguish."

her: *rofl* "As long as it's not the Breath of the Great Dwarf!"

me: *rofl*

>.> &mdash;Dr Ishmael  04:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Was this a spoken conversation, or did you type it at each other from across the room? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The couple that games together, stays together :P [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was spoken. And yes, gaming is one of many things that brought us together. :D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You broke RC

 * -; [[Image:Bunneh.jpg]] ~Bunny  01:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, it's a bad habit I have. :P There's an easy way to hide all the uploads, though: select Image in the Namespace list, then check the Invert box and click go.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:20, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

*point*
Mendel be lying to us. As ye be the only Administrator on at the moment, I would greatly appreciate it if ye could help fix his mistake. Entrea   [Talk]  02:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Arrr, I figger it be abou' time that landlubber be made to walk the plank. What ye say, maties?   &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:01, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Arrr, we oughta loot us some bonny lasses. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This day be callin' for some copious listenin' of some pirate Hip-hop.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Change all "hi-res" to "high-res"
Or you'll be WRONG. 04:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you ever heard of "hi-fi"? >.> &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What does stereo have to do with skill icons? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm saying there be a precedent for abbreviating "high" as "hi" when used as a hyphenated prefix fer a compound adjective. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's wrong too. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not wrong if you believe in descriptive orthography: hi-res gets 26 million google hits against a piffling 10 million for high-res, "high-res" or "hi-res". Subtract the pages that hit on both and it'll look even worse for ye olde spellinge, matey! --◄mendel► 05:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Proper english be overrated.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  05:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just wasn't being proper enough. Observe. Change all instances of "hi-res" to "high resolution" immediately. Arrrr. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:45, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see your piratey ways - all you want is for the category page to be taken over with captions that say "High-resolution_Glyp..." Doubt me and I'll duel you and those 20 sorry characters you be calling a crew! Arr! --◄mendel► 09:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Sysop status for Bot ishmael
Before you get started on this, would you like to try out a sysop-enabled bot for mass deletion? This seems like a very safe and perfect opportunity. (T/C) 07:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally don't see the need to re-upload 1234 images just to correct "Hi-res" to "High-res", but if you agree with Felix (who I think was mostly joking when he posted that...), I suppose I'll do it.
 * In any case, I will still be deleting the ~800 images that were previously uploaded under other naming schemes. So if you feel comfortable with it, I am willing to take on that responsibility.  With that ability, I could even write a script to run on the bot to do the 'high-res' renaming for me, so it wouldn't be much of a hassle at all, if you think it needs to be done.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't care about the renaming, I am more interested in testing capabilities. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, alrighty then. Since you brought it up in this section I assumed it was in relation to the renaming.  I know I've been a bit lax on notifying when I was doing something with the bot - which no one has complained about yet, although that still doesn't mean it's right - but I will certainly post on the bot's page when I'm doing anything involving mass deletions.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, writing a bot to delete things has been more difficult than I thought it would be - I've been researching that issue all evening. Turns out that I'm going to have to abandon the Perlwikipedia module that I'd been using and learn to use the MediaWiki module instead (it's a LOT more robust, though, dunno why I didn't use it in the first place).  Hopefully I'll get to the point that I can at least test something tomorrow.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The python wikipediabot has a script to delete things, too.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 15:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * After getting the right module, and then fixing all the stupid things I was doing (input from the command line has to be chomp'ed to remove the linefeed... >.>), it was easy. The hi-res icons have all been deleted by Bot ishmael - see the bot's page for details.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:43, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was really cool. (And didn't break RC since I hide bot edits!) So now you've got the technique down and if we needed to, we could perform mass deletions in the future, yah? This is good. Thanks for testing it out. :) I'll go remove the bot status now, in anticipation of the next mass deletion project. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Uncategorized image purge? :P --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  01:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we'd really be better off trying to categorize those before deleting them, since I am pretty sure there's still stuff in there which ought to be kept. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's yet another thing I plan to work on. Wizardboy did a LOT a few months ago, and Cress and someone else have done some, but there's plenty left to go.  (I thought Sannse said Wikia would look into remove the 1000-item limits on Special: lists, but apparently they haven't done that yet - still 1000+ in Special:Uncategorizedimages.)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Next on my list are the beast protraits - if onyl 10% are uncategorized, that is 500 right there. --◄mendel► 06:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

armor crafting tables
I am somewhat concerned that it is not clear that the gold cost listed in the crafting tables is per piece, it just says "Gold." In the grouped quick references there's actually an explanation on what the gold and material costs mean, but in individual armor type pages it does not. I can see why you are removing the Total gold cost from the totals column, since it breaks "symmetry," but it also made it clear what's the set cost and what's the piece cost... This is not an issue to frequent visitors and seasoned players, but may be quite confusing to newbies. Any thoughts? RoseOfKali 17:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'm actually for including the monetary cost in the Total column, but I remember someone somewhere telling me not to (a loooong time ago). If you're for it too, then let's go and put it back in.  I was concerned about the "symmetry", yeah, but I think I found a way to make it work - see Necromancer armor crafting quick reference/Krytan/Factions.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Me likes! I was in the middle of typing this:
 * Also, if you are going to be "remodeling" crafting quick references, here's a helpful link: User:RoseOfKali/Necromancer_armor_crafting_quick_references. This has a list of all the Necro QR's with solid links to each QR's page - you don't have to type the addresses or hit edit links and look for templates used, etc, just "Open in New Tab" and edit away.  It makes mass editing easier, and you can track consistency by refreshing the whole page.  Just thought I'd mention it to you.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Since I'm editing the main armor pages anyway to fix up the descriptions, I can get to the templates from there. I will use that to measure consistency, though.
 * Should the Acquisition section be split first by campaign or by method? I've been going with method first, then campaign (see Warrior Tyrian armor), but all the necromancer ones are campaign-first.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That still looks as By Campaign to me. The differences in header levels is not very noticeable.  Really, you can treat the PvP section as a separate campaign when it comes to formatting.  The Necro ones do not have PvP tables included, they have been listed separately so far (and quite sparingly, at that), and I didn't mess with them, because I know nothing about PvP armor making.  Feel free to add those if you have the data.  Also, I would probably change the "Crafting" header to "PvE" or "PvE Crafting" to match the "PvP" one, otherwise it looks kind of funny: Acquisition->Crafting, seems redundant until you realize there's a PvP section down the road.
 * Also note that Necromancer_armor_crafting_quick_reference exists, and it uses its own combo tables instead of somehow re-using the ones from the armor pages. It will need to get the material icons updated for once, and someday, may even hope for a PvP counterpart (this holds for all professions, really, not just necro).   RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * On the PvP rewards, that table isn't actually necessary (and it's apparently wrong most of the time anyway - on GWW it says basic armor costs 20 points, while fancy armor is 50 - most of ours say 15 for basic, and I don't think we have that for any of the fancy ones). I say we just add a line to  to state what reward type it is, if any, the same way as weapons/shields do it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * PERFECT! RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

New question (to Rose or anyone else who cares): With the material icons, should they always be one per line, or is it okay to double them up like on Warrior Vabbian armor? ... I think I just answered my own question - the linen icon is getting wrapped in every cell there at 1024x768. I'll fix those as I apply the table class (see below). Switching to bot account for human-botmode now. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 14:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Armor template: earring
Necromancer_Asuran_armor, Necromancer_Kurzick_armor, Necromancer_Luxon_armor, Necromancer_Elite_Kurzick_armor, Necromancer_Elite_Luxon_armor, Necromancer_Elite_Canthan_armor (the list goes on, probably well into mesmer, ele, and monk females, too) - the Female earring is not dyeable and so does not need a separate screenshot. The LRe headgear option used to not have a dyed earring at all when I created it (with help), as it only existed for necromancer scars to show all three sides of the face, and their earrings never dye. The 2e option used to detect whether the dyed earring existed, and only display it then. What happened? The template is getting more and more unreadable, so I don't know how to fix that. There's a red link in place of the dyed earring, which should not be there. LRe only needs a gray earring, EVER. The others had detection of dyed earring which is now gone. RoseOfKali 18:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Gah, stop editing your comment so I can reply, geez! I'll take a look... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:40, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol. ^_^ well, I made a full list of current damages (cus I'm bored...): Necro, Mesmer, Monk. Ele got spared since even undyeable earrings got uploaded as dyed.  Oh, and thanks for checking.


 * Necromancer_Asuran_armor,
 * Necromancer_Kurzick_armor,
 * Necromancer_Luxon_armor,
 * Necromancer_Elite_Kurzick_armor,
 * Necromancer_Elite_Luxon_armor,
 * Necromancer_Elite_Canthan_armor,
 * Mesmer_Canthan_armor,
 * Mesmer_Kurzick_armor,
 * Mesmer_Elite_Kurzick_armor,
 * Mesmer_Asuran_armor,
 * Monk_Kurzick_armor


 * You will probably notice this anyway, but all earring options got affected, not just 2e and LRe. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, yeah, that's my fault. I didn't realize that sometimes you don't need the dyed earring spot.  The problem with using #ifexist to display it, though, is that it won't show a redlink when there should be one.  A better solution is to rewrite the template to accept a parameter to either show or hide the dyed earring spot, depending on which default we want to go with.  Or just add a "Head-dyed" parameter to define what to show specifically for the dyed section (defaulting to the "Head" option if "Head-dyed" isn't given).  That would probably be best, imo.  What do you think?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You have a point with the red links. (On that note, why so many missing images have been showing up recently as BLUE links instead of RED?) I think defaulting to no dyed earring is best (seems to me like most are un-dyeable, tbh), and include a parameter for dyed earring - this is I think the most "elegant" way to do it, and it would interfere the least with existing galleries, just go through and paste a (dyed earring = yes) or something like that.  However, it would be wise to go through the galleries and paste the parameter line before changing the template to reflect this, since it would be hard to tell what ones need to be changed once the default is "no dyed earring."  This suggestion is all assuming I understand the template correctly.  Otherwise, whatever you think is best, and we can go through the existing templatized galleries and adjust them if necessary.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, and while we're on the topic of earrings, as I mentioned before, many of the elementalist ones cannot be dyed, but a "dyed" image has been uploaded anyway, showing no change. Should we let them be, or get rid of them for consistency?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 20:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Get rid of them for consistency. I don't see that we need the "dyed" images just to show that they don't dye.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * (I think the blue-redlink thing was related to Wikia's image server issues yesterday, I haven't noticed any today - point them out if you notice it again.) Adding a "Head-dyed" multi-valued parameter would be the simplest by far to code, and it also wouldn't require any pre-editing of the templates, although it would require editing the most templates afterwards.  Adding a "Dyed-earring" boolean (yes/no) parameter would be more difficult, require pre-editing, but a smaller number of templates would be affected.  Option 1 also gives us a parameter that would be useful if we ever had any other reason to display a different set of images for the dyed section.  I'm going with that - shouldn't take but a couple minutes.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I was kind of thinking to get rid of the "fake" dyed images, too. I'll do it sometime once I figure out exactly how the new template works with the headgear, but I think I get it. If only Head is specified, then it works as before, but if the Head-dyed is specified, then the dyed section image set can be different than the component, correct? RoseOfKali 21:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking care of this. I'll fix the above list of "broken" galleries for now, and deal with deleting undyeable ele earrings later. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And dammit, I thought I had the right spelling that time!! Curse you IE and your infuriating pickiness on color names! >X(  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's a hint: IE = lIghtgrEy. But only match two letters (IE) to two words (lightgrey).  It's "grAy" otherwise. ;) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 22:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Bots are for bot accounts
>.> &mdash; Warw/Wick 19:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Armor cost tables
Right now the information in each cell of the armor cost table is left-justified, which leads to the icons for materials that an armor needs less than 10 of being shifted to the left of materials that take 2-digit numbers. The same problem would happen for 3 digits. Can you either add some blanks to line up the material icons, or right-justify all the cells with icons in them? (This is a purely stylistic request and will have no impact on anything if you choose to not do it or make it low priority.) 04:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Unlike the current work, this seems like a job that a bot could do. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I think I understand what you're saying, but could you give a couple examples anyway? &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. On Ranger Ascalon armor, the Tanned Hide Square icon in the Ran Musu Gardens line is not aligned with the same icon in the Seitung Harbor line because of the 6 (1 digit) versus the 18 (two digits). [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with making these align right is that you would have to put the right-align tag into every line with the materials, because the text in the left side columns (crafter, location, etc) would look odd aligned to the right. This means that you can't simply make everything align right, and it's a tedious task.  (This only matters in tables for armors that can be crafted in multiple locations, like the Ranger Ascalon example above.  For single-location armors everything can be right-aligned without any problems, I think.)  As an alternative, you can always slap one or two & nbsp;'s to make every number 3 digits wide.  Entropy is right that this is probably a bot task, and I think it's pretty low priority right now, but something to keep in mind, especially when you make new tables.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree, it's not tedious at all. You can write CSS to match a specific column in a table (I think we do that in hidecol) and apply that as a class to the table tag. NOt sure whether it's worth it, but if it is, we ought to make CSS to replace Template:STDT and do that at the same time. --◄mendel► 08:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you brought up replacing STDT, it's probably used more than Skill box is, meaning it would be a total bitch to replace, but... Yes, it's easy to do this in CSS.  Just apply a class to the table, like , then add this to our common.css:  .  All cells within the table will be right-aligned, except the header cells (they're th, not td, so they'll retain the center-alignment) and the cells that are explicitly center-aligned (in-line style overrides linked-in stylesheets).  One change to common.css and a bot-change to the armor pages I've completed (I'll include it on the rest as I continue working through this).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I brought up replacing STDT because I don't like the way standard tables look, and the opportunity to reskin them using personal CSS is something I've been longing for. It doesn't need to be done all at once if the CSS is functionally identical to the template.
 * The CSS change I suggested targets not every cell in the table, but rather a specific column in the table, obviating the need to override anything. Go find the section "== Hiding specific columns in tables == " in MediaWiki:Common.css for an example. --◄mendel► 14:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC) & 14:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not target every cell in the table? The ones that we don't want right-aligned already have overrides on them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Simple fix for STDT: change the template to apply, add the style to common.css.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, then, go go class=alignright ! For the template change, how many pages would be affected? --◄mendel► 14:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I kept it specific, class=armorcraftingbox, and I used the column-specific trick to center-align the 2nd/3rd columns so I can remove the inline style for those. I also added CSS code for an stdt class, but I'm not going to change the template immediately due to the ginormous impact it would have on the job queue.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:28, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

While on that topic, Monk_Vabbian_armor crafting table (for example) looks really wacky with everything being so mis-aligned, in addition to there being 4 mats per piece... Is there any way that could be fixed? Like maybe one mat per line, in addition to being right-aligned? It kind of looks like some kid spilled all his marbles. ^_^; RoseOfKali  07:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and as can be seen here, many of the mat icons are different sizes, so a simple right-align doesn't really fix the alignment problem, unless all the icons are made to a standard width. Also, why are the tooltips on the mat icons in semi-plural?  "Ruby(s)" is rather... wrong.  It's "Rubies" in plural.  And "Pile(s) of Glittering Dust" looks odd to me with the (s) in the middle of it.  I would have just done them all in singular, it's not like they're a part of a sentence.  *shrug*  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 07:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * See my last comment under this section: single-column mats is definitely the way to go, otherwise they wrap at low screen resolutions. I dunno what to do about icon width, because if you increase the width, it increases the height too, and I think standard height is more important.
 * I researched the semi-plural thing for ruby/rubies, and ruby(s) is the accepted way to do it (reference). And I think it is necessary, because the alt-text is supposed to be a substitute for the image.  If you have 1  it should be "1 Vial of Ink," but if you have 2  then it's "2 Vials of Ink."  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:59, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Now that you've removed border styling from armorcraftingbox, I'm going to put forth a suggestion I'd kept to myself: you can do  now to get both, and profit from any stdt changes automatically. It's not really superior, it just looks more cleanly in the .css and more messy (or more obvious?) on the wiki page. --◄mendel► 07:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Gah, I knew there was a way to apply two classes to an element, but I'd forgotten about that. Thanks.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:59, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * All warrior, ranger, and monk armor crafting tables have been updated. Let me know if anything looks odd on any of them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:59, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Elite Necromancer Scar Armor
I uploaded a new set of images for this armor set, and seemed to have botched something. Some comments here and here. I elected to stop before I made a reversion complicated. Oops. --GW-Blackdog 15:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I replied on the gallery's talkpage. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thankee-sai. /bow  --GW-Blackdog 06:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)