GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills/Archive 6

Skill icons: screen cap or fansite kit?

 * Echo screen cap, 16kb: [[Image:Echo.jpg]]
 * Echo fansite kit, 3kb: [[Image:Echo.jpg]]

Over at the Task list the opinions has been to use the one from the fansite kit, but the issue that there is no golden border for the elite skills was not brought up. I still vote fansite kit though. -PanSola 06:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * IMO, we should go with the fansite kit images. The golden border shouldn't be that important if the skill article itself says that they are an elite skill.  --Rainith 11:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Or if someone is willing they could simply add the border. I can do it if I have the time, but that's an option as well. --GraceAlone 23:37, 16 February 2006 (CST)


 * I certainly favor anything that keeps the gold border. I don't know all the skills as well as I'd like, and it's an excellent UI reference / support.  Leaving out the gold border is bad UI and would make me sad panda.  (Even if we just get a surrounding table with a gold border or something, that would do it.  I certainly see the appeal of using official fansite stuff.) --JoDiamonds 13:11, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * Please scroll down a little ways to see how the FSK icons can be given a gold border. --Rainith 13:15, 8 March 2006 (CST)

Skill Icons: Mix of Old and New fansite kit, or new fansite kit only?
Old fansite kit icons does not have elite skills. New fansite kit have all skills, but are smaller.

Do we want a mix, use old by default and new only if old doesn't have it? or do we want to go uniform on size? Rainith has expressed a preference for uniformity (use all new), and I also support that position.

Relavent discussion at GuildWiki:Task List#Task: Skill Images Revamp. -PanSola 09:11, 12 February 2006 (CST)

Moved from GuildWiki:Task List
Moved from Task List

Re-upload or rename all skill images to their correct skill name (skill name.png). The template:Skill bar, which would improve all build articles a lot and is easy to use, requires properly names images. Proper names are good whenever you need the image anyway.

Update: Since the recent update many skill icons have changed. Another reason to get this done.

--Xeeron 05:33, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Just a note, but it looks like ANet changed their fansite kits for the skill icons. At a quick glance I saw that some (maybe all) of the elites are in there now.  The (possible) down side is that they changed the size of the graphics to about half their old size.  If all the elites are included in these, I think we should use them, that way all our skills will be uniform.  --Rainith 11:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. With all the new skill icons, this would be a ton of work otherwise. Hopefully ANet has a full set of the new icons somewhere. --Xeeron 05:33, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly sure all the elite skills are included. However they are now .jpg and not .png, AND the elites don't have golden borders. -PanSola 00:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I made a template for getting the images uploaded with the correct name, i'll be looking through them and listing them all. Template:Moveimage 05:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Since there is no way to "move" images (w/o re-uploading them) I think we should just straight upload the new images from the kits, even if the elites don't have golden borders. --Rainith 11:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to help gets these updated since I have the time, but need to know where we stand: are we using the official images from Anet, even with the smaller size, or are we doing something else? --GraceAlone


 * I think we have a majority in favor of using the new fansite kits from Anet. I tried to stir up another discussion here but didn't get many responses... -PanSola 22:05, 15 February 2006 (CST)


 * Another issue to debate, if we use the FSK images, do we convert them to PNGs or do we change our templates here to accept them as JPGs? Just throwing that out there.  --Rainith 01:30, 16 February 2006 (CST)
 * Personally I'm not happy with the quality and size of the FSK icons (but that's my opinion). I think we have the majority of the icons, we just don't have a uniformity. As it stands now I think we just need to rename the icon, re-upload, and then edit the skill description (at least that's what I've been doing). --GraceAlone 02:37, 16 February 2006 (CST)
 * Well, the skill box templates do not asume any extensions currently. I don't know about the templates for builds.  I say keep them in original JPG format.  As for the "quality and size" of the FSK icons, see this link about what *I* am not happy about in terms of quality and (file) size. -PanSola 06:36, 16 February 2006 (CST)


 * Generally, I am in favor of keeping the golden border. I have come across a few articles with the new "borderless" skill icons and found that very irritating. --Xeeron 20:55, 21 February 2006 (CST)


 * Ditto. 21:19, 21 February 2006 (CST)
 * Well I'm proposing adding our own golden border with the skill boxes, see GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills which would mitigate the issue a lot. Even vertical skill info boxes can have golden border added skill box 6 and 7 from this link.  You guys should go and vote on the skill boxes (-: -PanSola 22:12, 21 February 2006 (CST)
 * The problem is: In nearly all build articles, we now use the template skill bar, which displays the skill image. Very neat looking, but the yellow border needs to be in the image itself. Apart from that, its the way it is in the game. --Xeeron 06:19, 22 February 2006 (CST)

Skill Icons - the ballot
Blah, sorry, when I said "Please don't start voting until the skill box layout format is decided." I was thinking the vote currently in Archive 4, as opposed to the one that hasn't ended yet now. If no one has any objections, we will start the 7-day vote for this ballot item. If anyone think this ballot should wait, speak up now. -PanSola 05:55, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Voting format will be Majority vote with instant-runoff.

Neither the original or the new fansite kit provided icons for Res Signet and Sig of Capture, nor at of this moment, Ch2 skills.

Skill Icons Ballot
I have taken the liberty of removing PNG format from consideration completely. If anyone wants PNG back, use "Other" and sue me. -PanSola 05:55, 13 March 2006 (CST)

I have also taken the liberty to only offering edited golden borders (plain one-color edition) for elite icons in the new fansite kit (see ballot item discussion). This is with the understanding that the artificial border in the skill box will be removed, being redundent now. If you do not want the image edited, use "Other" (and specify whether you want the skill box to provide artificial golden border).

All options will use screen capture for unavailable/outdated icons.


 * 1) Use original fansite kit images, but in JPG format (as opposed to the currently used PNG).
 * 2) Use original fansite kit images in JPG format, new fansite kit for outdated icons (but not elites, which will be screen caps to perserve original golden border).
 * 3) Use original fansite kit images in JPG format, new fansite kit for outdated and elite icons (edited golden border).
 * 4) Use new fansite kit JPG images (edited golden border for elites).
 * 5) Use new fansite kit JPG except for elite (which will be screen caps to perserve original golden border).
 * 6) Use screencaps for everything to ensure ultimate uniformity
 * 7) Other (please specify)

Skill Icon Votes
(NOTE: There are two different votes on this page, as long as you're here, please also vote on the Skill Box Vote)
 * Option 1 - old FSK only (screen cap elite/outdated)
 * Option 2 - old FSK default, new FSK (w/ edited border for elites) for outdated (screen cap elite)
 * Option 3 - old FSK default, new FSK (w/ edited border for elites) for anything missing
 * Option 4 - new FSK (w/ edited border for elites) only
 * 1) PanSola (2nd choice 3, 3rd choice 5, 4th choice 2, 5th choice 1)
 * 2) Rainith
 * 3) Barek
 * 4) Evil_Greven
 * 5) JoDiamonds (4, 7, 6, meh)
 * 6) Karlos
 * 7) Dinosaur Planet
 * 8) Chuiu
 * Option 5 - new FSK except for elites (screen cap elite).
 * Option 6 - Screen cap everything
 * 1) Shandy (Option 5 second choice)
 * Option 7 - new FSK, with images altered to include the actual ingame border (haven't found anyone to do the border yet)
 * 1) Xeeron
 * Option 8 - Other
 * 1) LordBiro I vote for PNGs. I don't think there would be any discolouration with resize if the host had ImageMagick/NetPBM and the wiki was set up to use them.
 * 2) * My post here wasn't very clear. I've explained in detail on my talk page.
 * 1) * My post here wasn't very clear. I've explained in detail on my talk page.

Results
Option 4 has received a clear majority. If anyone wish to dispute the results, speak up now or forever hold your peace.
 * I'll start coloring the borders of the elites tonight. Should I assume that we will want to hold off on uploading them until the skill box vote is complete, or do we want them ASAP and will change the articles/templates that call for them in png format?  --Rainith 01:05, 22 March 2006 (CST)
 * Personally I say upload new JPGs ASAP. I think whether Skuld's win, my landscape win, or one of the hybrids win, we'll be using the new icons.  As for whether we want to modify the existing templates to use JPGs instead of PNGs, that's a diff question that I care much less about.  -SolaPan 08:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

Progress
moved to Community Portal

Ballot Item Discussion
Please discuss what should be added to the ballot or the pro/con summary (or if either lack neutrality).
 * If I could suggest a slighly different idea, how about using the new FSK jpgs with a slight change for the elites: [[Image:elite-example.jpg]] vs. the original: [[Image:warriorcleave.jpg]]
 * All I did was take the FSK icon and color the black border with a color taken with the eyedropper tool from the elite border of an older icon. I'm not sold on this color, but it is a very easy fix and I would be happy to do all the borders of the elite skills (I would do it over a weekend, so if everyone decides that this is a good idea on a tuesday, don't expect to see them done on wednesday morning).  So what do people think?  Have a better color suggestion for the border?  Post a pic with the color and I can use that.  --Rainith 11:47, 25 February 2006 (CST)
 * EDIT - also as the FSK icons are in jpg format they scale much better for use in the skill bar than the png format ones. --Rainith 11:51, 25 February 2006 (CST)
 * For the other professions this might be quite nice, but with warriors teh color isn't standing out a lot, in the particular icon you posted anyways. Excellent idea. -PanSola 03:54, 26 February 2006 (CST)
 * The color stands out when compared vs. the original, see above. Anyways, like I said, suggest a better color and it can be used, I just didn't want to upload 20 different versions.  --Rainith 10:49, 26 February 2006 (CST)
 * I am all for editing the FSK files.  Besides, they are much easier to get a hold of.  Less work for those involved. -Novalith 12:24, 27 February 2006 (EST)
 * While in theory I am fine with all three options, I would very much oppose any solution that does not include the golden border as a part of the picture. Using templates to add it is cumbersome and makes for much harder to understand templates, while simply the picture might be enough otherwise. --Xeeron 20:23, 27 February 2006 (CST)
 * Can you use the "gold" color from this wiki (they are floating everywhere in /Archive 4)? Being something NOT directly in game might make the border standout more (since whatever color we pick, it's going to be mono-tone, picking something from actual icon might blend in too well esp with warrior skills).  -PanSola 07:42, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * Per your request:
 * [[Image:elite-example-2.jpg]]
 * --Rainith 13:53, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah I like this one more than the previous one (-: Thanks -PanSola 14:01, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * I also like this one a lot. Additionally, I'm agree with Xeeron that the gold border should be included as part of the image itself if possible, for all the reasons mentioned, especially simplicity in the long run.  --JoDiamonds 00:42, 9 March 2006 (CST)

As a random note, the old FSK actually had JPGs. For unknown reasons, Martin (the original uploader of most of them) converted them to PNG. He couldn't remember why he converted them when I asked him months afterwards. --Fyren 02:01, 27 February 2006 (CST)

Suggestion: Make item 3, "Use old FSK images in JPG form, new FSK images for outdated images, convert skill bar template to look for JPGs" -- 08:36, 1 March 2006 (CST)

For those voting for option 7, who is offering to make the new images for the elites? I'm offering to do that for option 4 which would look like this:

As far as putting the actual border from the game in there, someone else will have to do that, my way is very easy to do in Photoshop, putting the ingame border on the images is more than I am willing to do. --Rainith 02:56, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * The example you put up there is one for option 7 actually, so we have found one volunteer already ;-)
 * As I said, I would prefer the actual ingame border, but given my total noobness with anything related to grafics, I will settle for the second best (i.e. that golden border) if the ingame border turns out to be too much of an effort. --Xeeron 04:18, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * Actually if you read the description, that example is for #4:
 * Use new fansite kit JPG images (edited golden border for elites).
 * --Rainith 04:32, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah the current 7 overlaps with 4... ppl need to specify "Other" if they don't want the gold border.  Sorry it was not super explicit. -PanSola 04:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * I edited option 7 so it IS for the actual ingame border, to remove overlap with #4. Ppl who originally voted for 7 might want to rethink their decision, and if they still choose to vote 7, they probably want to specify 4 as their second choice seeing how the original option 7 was worded. -PanSola 04:58, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * Thanks for clearing that up. :)  Sorry if the tone of my original post on this today sounded kind of "whiney," it has just been that sort of day, where one thing after another has been pushed off onto me.  I'll be happy to put the psudo-golden borders on the elite skills if that option wins, my concern was that I would never be happy with the outcome if I tried to "merge" the in-game border with the new FSK icons, plus that wasn't something that I wanted to try to do in the first place.  *Whew* It is time to go home, not a minute too soon.  --Rainith 07:58, 15 March 2006 (CST)