User talk:NieA7/Build:A/R Critical Barrager

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/Archive1 /Archive2

Link to B/P Team Build Tomb Ruins page
Please add a link to B/P Team Build Tomb Ruins page. I would do it myself, but I don't know how. That page already cross-references to this one. Queen of Spades 15:09, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
 * thusly done. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:32, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

Post Nightfall
defantly doing this after nightfall Enzothisling 22:27, 25 September 2006 (CDT) Disrupting Accuracy wouldn't work because Barrage removes all preparations.

Disrupting Accuracy won't work with Barrage, since DA is a preparation, rather than an enchantment. They might change that for the final version of nightfall, however ~Avatarian 86 10:30, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Doh! wow i cant belive i missed that. that should teach me for posting late at night :) Enzothisling 13:01, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

as of latest "test" update this build may be dead. Sharpen daggers no longer works per critical hit but has a set number of attacks. ~the rat~


 * But Sharpen Daggers isn't key to making this build work, it just provides bonus bleeding. If the skill is made permanent, it could be replaced with something else.  Queen Schmuck 04:01, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * As a crit barrager I think that sharpen is highly useful here. Margonites that bleed make me happy. and it applies alot of pressure to what ever monks are there. six bleeding foes are alot harder to heal then just the six your pinging the hell out of. And with the old sharpen, you keep them bleeding and the pressure on. ~the rat~

It works better.. Crowley 08:13, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Double-Enchantment
Isn't keeping Way of Perfection as well as Sharpen Daggers up a bit tedious? I would probably add Distracting Shot in there instead, but that's just me. Any other opinions? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:57, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Agreed. You don't need healing, you're at the back. If you do, tanks aren't doing jobs, and you're not kiting. Or the monks, always blame the monks...Silk Weaker 23:12, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Updated. Any problems with this version should be posted here. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:34, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Since when are you save when being in the back? Ok, you don't get the dmg from melees when a tank stops them (which is just the best outcome but not the most common), but casters dont just focus on the tank -.- They like to spread their degen. --Birchwooda Treehug 06:15, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Bow Mods
I've got my Crit/Barrager using a Zealous Jade Longbow of Enchanting, and the base mod on the bow is 15% while enchanted. I've found that the enchanting mod really helps with keeping Sharpen Daggers up, which in turn helps keep the 15% dmg mod constant. Just thought I'd add it in ^^ ~Avatarian 86 08:58, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You should be able to keep Sharpen Daggers up 100% of the time with the current attribute arrangement. Although, I could have read that chart wrong... &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:34, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Just a matter of preference. I usually have to go with henchies, and having to recast sharpen daggers mid-battle really sucks. Plus I'm too cheap to spring for an hp mod :P ~Avatarian 86 10:07, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Try getting Chkkr's flatbow. It's perfect for CB
 * Go for it. :P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:23, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Ironwing Flatbow
Just a minor hyperlink error. It should link to http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ironwing_Flatbow_%28unique_item%29 instead of the general 'Ironwing Flatbow' weapon. --Melton 22:28, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Fixed now. Thanks for reporting it! &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:33, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

Nightfall
Are there no skills that could be added to this build to improve it?

Using the previous argument of "You're a ranger, you don't need healing," take out Shadow Refuge, take away all points in Shadow Arts, and put Keen Arrow in there. I swear they MADE Keen Arrow for this build, along with all the other "triggers on critical hit" skills from Nightfall. --Son of Urza 19:55, 3 November 2006 (CST)
 * How exactly would that be useful in PvE? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:45, 6 December 2006 (CST)

I swear they made Keen Arrow for a spike with a paragon in the group and go for the eyes...

What to do with Hero Zenmai
I have been trying to figure out what to do with the Assassin hero that doesn't follow attack chains, and doesn't like to shadow step (there goes A skills). Then I saw this A/R Critical Barrager build. Wow! Best way to make Zenmai useful (for anything other than corpses), take away her daggers! Queen Schmuck 00:46, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Does it work on Zenmai? I haven't tried it yet. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:46, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Zenmai does actually use it quite well. The only problems are that she doesn't put up FW by herself until after you've started attacking, which then makes her waste x seconds casting it(so I disable it and activate it manually), and she doesn't maintain all 3 of critical eye, sharpen daggers, and WoP (yes, still using it, haven't changed it to the current build) 100% of the time. She does however maintain at least 2 all the time.--Akmdw 00:56, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * After talking to the Priest at the guild hall, I now have all the skills for her (was missing critical strikes skills). I took her out on a stroll through Mehtani Keys, and *woot!* found she does use her skills.  Imagine that, an assassin that won't use A skills, but will use R skills.  She also took very little damage (though I was in mid level mob area), whereas before she would Dash right into the mix of things, and stay there until dead.  Screen shots available of her actually using her skills on her own (except FW as noted by Akmdw), which include Jin for comparison. Template for build - AnMSG/hjqsYPmqp/euLjdCA Queen Schmuck 01:27, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Alright, you guy have convinced me to start using my Assassin hero. xD &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:14, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's basicly the only build I use for Zenmai, and I have her with me 95% of the time when I'm doing PvE. Works very good in most situations --Jill Bioskop X 06:01, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Er, Zenmai works fine with dagger combo attacks as long as you don't try to give her more than one of a particular type. I have her using Unsuspecting Strike, Wild Strike, and Twisting Fangs. It works fine. Capcom 06:20, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * She seems to work pretty well as a Critical Hits sin, rather than using attack chains and shadow stepping. I've been using this for her:
 * With 16 Critical Strikes, 13 Dagger Mastery, vigour/vitea runes and Nightstalker Insignia (though thinking about it Blessed may be better). Seems to work pretty well - she's tough, spreads bleeding around like there's no tomorrow and appears to deal out good, sustained damage. It's unusual for her to have all the enchantments/skills/stances up at the same time, but she usually manages to get most of them going at any one point. Kit her out with zealous daggers and energy doesn't seem to be a problem - she happily spams out the three attacks. --NieA7 08:03, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * You know, I love using zenmai with the Disciple of Death build. That's what generated that humongous discussion/flaming war, in fact. ;) But yeah, this is a good alternative NightAngel 08:30, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * she works fine with way of the empty palm, repeating, and death's retreat provided you dont give her a dual strike, she'll sit there and repeat, retreat, etc. at a low level, retreat isn't a heal, in as much a way for her to get clear long enough for the hencies to heal her. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:23, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * she works fine with way of the empty palm, repeating, and death's retreat provided you dont give her a dual strike, she'll sit there and repeat, retreat, etc. at a low level, retreat isn't a heal, in as much a way for her to get clear long enough for the hencies to heal her. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:23, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Still Poop
I still think this build is utter poop. :( Completely negligible damage for an assassin and pretty useless in PvE imo. — Jyro X 22:47, 28 January 2007 (CST)
 * Assassins suck in PvE in general. This build just makes them less squishy while doing just as well as a standard Barrager. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 13:01, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * does not suck in PvE my friend. :) — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 16:31, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * It sucks in PvE imo. It's just fine compared to all those other ones. AoE is ftw. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:32, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * The problem is with all the nerfs to AoE however. If you look at the DPS of this build (even vs. 3 targets in a clump), it doesn't even compare to that of a standard assassin. With this build, it takes approximately 15-25 seconds (in a best-case scenario) or more to kill a group of 3 lvl 20-24 monsters (assuming you have a tank of some sort). Whereas with a promise build, it takes approximately 2-3 seconds to kill one lvl 20-24 monster (assuming you have a tank of some sort) averaging out to around 9 seconds total for a group of 3. 13 seconds if you average in 2 seconds between each kill to get a new target. The math is there to prove the point. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 16:37, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * EDIT: But then again, I'm biased against Barrage and have always thought it was crap outside of a Barrage-oriented team. And I will hold fast to that opinion because the DPS is very bad unless you can get a huge clump of creatures together in one pile. And organizing that type of an aggro would take more time than just picking them off one by one in most cases. The only thing in PvE that I think does very noticeable and effective AoE damage is a nuker of any element (aside from air) and then again; that's just my opinion no matter how true it may be. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 16:45, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Archive
The skill balances now stand. I guess its time to say goodbye to old critty--Nog64 21:39, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Erm... what? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * I don't see how this was nerfed... This was buffed with the Critical Eye buff. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:49, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Sharpen Daggers was nerfed. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 21:50, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * A bit of bleeding lots for tons of extra damage. Still pretty much a net gain. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:57, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * The main advantage of this build was the bleeding that it induced (and even that is a crap reason to use this over pretty much any other assassin build). Without the bleeding, the DPS is fairly low (especially at 12 MS). — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 22:02, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Except the 50% Crit chance or something? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:39, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * And you make it sound like you can't Barrage. 7 Barrage fires is a lot. Each hit can spread bleeding. It doesn't count 7 immediately if you hit 7 enemies. It's 7 attack skills. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:16, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Why did you remove the NFUpdate tag Rapta? — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 00:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's not the right tag. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:29, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Call me crazy, but I think the update made this build is as good as before (against bleeders). No more X% chance, just out and out bleeding on N next skills (1 Barrage, 1 Skill). Loose a little on the chance to crit, gain guaranteed bleeding. Queen Schmuck 00:36, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Then would you mind putting on the "right tag"? — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 12:47, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * You're dead on. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:37, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, it doesn't work like that Queen. When it says next N attacks, it means the next N times you HIT something. Therefore if you hit N targets with one barrage, there goes your Sharpen Daggers and you have to re-apply it. Really bothersome if you ask me. And the damage is still crap. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 12:45, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yep, the build still works just fine. No reason to archive or anything. >< Entropy 00:39, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, the build wasn't affected THAT much. Remember the increased critical chance from Critical Eye now too. Now, builds that used Sharpen Daggers as the long-lasting enchantment for Way of the Assassin... THOSE took a rather bad hit. :/ Capcom 00:42, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Also, just to note, I've always had fun watching Meleesins have 6 to 7 Afflicted blow up in their faces. It always cheers me up. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 01:45, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * You've actually had fun while playing in a PUG with a Meleesin? Besides the histerical laughter caused by futile attempts at keeping them alive?  Maybe I am just jaded, and have only had the experiance of partying with the worst of the sins.  Queen Schmuck 11:51, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's N attack skills, Jyro. That means one activation of Barrage. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Rapta, have you tested it yet? I just did and if you hit N targets with ONE barrage, your Sharpen Daggers disappears. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 12:57, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * So you're saying that 100% Chance of Bleeding is worse than Bleeding-on-crit? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 12:59, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Um, yes. Considering it doesn't last very long and you have to keep re-applying it instead of actually doing damage every attack round. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 13:00, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's every 20 seconds. No different from before. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 13:20, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I just tested it: at 12 crit (next 6 attacks two barrage volleys hitting 3 targets each completely depletes sharpen daggers. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 15:14, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Not disputing your findings, and I am glad you found this out for the rest of us. This means that the description for this skill is wrong, yet can not be worded as "next 1...6 attack hits".  I see someone has already added that note to the skill page.  Queen Schmuck 18:41, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes. At the very least, Shapen Daggers has to be removed from the build. The skill will no longer fit with it, as Barrage removes it just once.--Nog64 18:01, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Weird wording
"A zealous bow string greatly helps with energy management, as hitting just two foes on average per Barrage is enough to fully recover the energy cost of Barrage. Without the zealous bow string, each Barrage must hit about 3.5 enemies (on average) to recover the cost." This just contradicted itself and is a little misleading. It says it takes 2 enemies, then starts a new sentence and talks about taking 3.5 enemies. It is probably just a mis-copy from the actually skill barrage. Can we consider fixing (or proving) this please? Dagotta 00:14, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Second part was redundant anyways. Removed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:15, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Thank you. Dagotta 00:26, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Post Sharpen Nerf
So.. since sharpen got pwned, what should go in place of it...

Some things that could work Hmm.. can't think of anything else, but sharpen isn't all that great in it anymore. --Dazra 00:59, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Feigned Neutrality for running away and added defense,
 * Critical Defenses
 * Way of Perfection

Caltrops, Death's Retreat and Return if the fighting gets a little to close and personal or the simple Dash could work as well. If your partying with a group that can cause conditions Signet of Malice as your condition removal or perhaps even Anditode Signet. Perhaps also Crossfire for a second bow attack in case the target has a block affect (stance or enchantment) up to still do damage.

How about...

This is what I use in TOMBS w/ 0 Beast Mastery
 * 0 Beast Mastery is a waste of a skill slot.Giangn626 10:55, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

But it's meant simply as another corpse for the MM.


 * two skill slots, in this case. ~Avatarian 86 00:22, 1 April 2007 (CDT)