Talk:Signet of Midnight

Cant this skill also be capped at the backdoor of the ring of fire mission?

Changed.
"As with most spell casters, blindness is not that much of a disadvantage to those that cast spells."

Really? Changed.
 * Yes really. Really, really, really really really. Do you know why? It just is! On a more serious note, why? &mdash; Skuld 17:24, 2 September 2006 (CDT)
 * The only thing I can think of is Unseen Fury. Kessel 21:58, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
 * But then you need to remove blind with something like Signet of Malice, but then that's 3 skills used to blind and counter stances, with only 5 slots left for self healing and attacks. Blinding Powder + Unseen Fury works and saves you an Elite, but the blind lasts for a shorter duration on them. --Nyc Elite 12:18, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Touch?
The notes on Blinding Powder state that Signet of Midnight will be stopped with "Can't Touch This!". Does that mean Signet of Midnight is a Touch skill? I don't see how, as it would then be a Touch skill and a Signet. If it's true I might be induced to add The Tag to this skill. :S Entropy 02:37, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Signets and touch skills! Spells and touch skills!  Cats and dogs, living together!  --Fyren 03:21, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * That doesn't help me :S Is it both? Neither? Signet? Touch? What?? Entropy 03:23, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's a touch signet :D Signets are weird in their behavior as some target foes, some allies, some self. This one requires touch range, and as such I do believe it is a touch skill --  n 00kie  (Ping) 03:50, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * So it is a elite Touch skill that can be stopped with Rust + Gust. Sad. Tag Pending. Entropy 03:56, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Signets are essentially rings, so Signet of Midnight could just be a big blunt ring you punch someone in the eye with. Doesn't explain the selfblinding though. SnowWhiteTan
 * Bad aim? --Fyren 01:54, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * Maybe the ring bounces back and hits you in the eyes, or maybe the ring's attached to a rubber string, which is attached to your mask. Heh - Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 06:23, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Tagged
Entropy 04:05, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * I don't agree with its lameness. It might not be worth anything in PvP, but for PvE it is the base of one or more solo farming builds. --  n 00kie  (Ping) 05:06, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * The reasons you listed aren't why SoM is bad—I mean, Blinding Powder needs an attack chain, and Throw Dirt has an obscene recharge. Dust Trap is expensive. I could say the same about SF being crap as a stand-alone too. No, the REAL reason why SoM looks a little poor nowadays is because of that overpowered, GvG-abused elementalist elite—Blinding Surge. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ufelder (contribs) 12:16, 9 January 2007.
 * Hm, it's a Touch signet. A/Me not using an attack chain would be IW except that's elite too. Why wouldn't you have an attack chain? Blinding Powder can also be used at range as it's a spell. Throw Dirt is also "used defensively" just like SoM - it's not elite though and can hit more than one foe. Might as well argue why Whirling Defense is bad (it's not), because of 60s recharge. I didn't mention Dust Trap, that's a whole nother ballgame :S. SF ele is an entire build around that elite and it works very well as we've all seen or experienced. Signet of Midnight though - if you want to make it useful for any Melee class, you have to carry a condition removal. You can combine it with things like Plague Sending or Sand Shards or even some Rit skills, but that is an ineffective use of elite. (besides the fact it's touch range) Oh and yes, Blinding Surge pwn's this.
 * Also I can't find any builds that use Signet of Midnight that were not unfavored. Entropy 05:29, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Blinding Powder is like a side effect you throw in so you can kill attackers—I was viewing SoM purely as a method of blinding which is why I said it was cumbersome to have an attack chain for Blinding Powder. Whirling Defense is almost always better than Throw Dirt imo, since stances are harder to remove. Taking the fact that no favoured builds are on GuildWiki that use this elite as reason for its suckiness is shoddy—we all know how subjective the build vetting procedure is, not to mention the community represented here is a small portion of the actual bulk of the gaming population. All in all, I'm saying your reasons for tagging it aren't the best—I would say being touch-range and having a long recharge compared to other alternatives (specifically Blinding Surge) are the best points against it. --Ufelder 05:47, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * . Although I've never played this one. I have no idea if you can still only pull the boss --  n 00kie  (Ping) 05:49, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * I think it's equally cumbersome to carry a Blind removal, no? If you carry one anyway it's moot I suppose, but...debatable. I generally take Blinding Powder with me anywhere, if I've got the points for it. Whirling Defense is a stance, true, but for stances I'd prefer Lightning Reflexes for lower recharge and IAS, Whirling isn't useful versus casters for example. Yes I know that is a shoddy reason at best but even in the game itself. This skill is widely hated and ridiculed as a lame elite. So a large section of the gaming population agrees is what I'm saying. The reasons you add, I should probably add in... 24.6.147.36 06:03, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm 95% certain those bosses could be farmed with any other Solo Green farm build, better. Like you, haven't done it myself, but I also wouldn't trust the tactics based on recent monster AI changes...and even if it does work you must admit that's an extremely niche usage for this elite. Not enough to redeem itself imo. Just like Otyugh's Cry, only really useful in a team with multiple pets - very niche and hence tagged. 24.6.147.36 06:03, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * PS. it's not a final sentence, I'll untag it if I get a good argument in favor. ;) 24.6.147.36 06:03, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I don't really care about this skill. I just remembered seeing that farming video and I kind of liked it. I am not going to bring any more arguments to this, but I am going to keep it on my watchlist. --  n 00kie  (Ping) 06:22, 9 January 2007 (CST)

I dont agree with this as a lame skill at all, i use it on my assassin, with signet of malice. If you want i can post the build but wiki seems to frown on that now. But its a FREE blind, that with epidemic and nothing is attacking anyone. I used SoM/Epi in UW and as a sin took on attaxes. Our warrior died (oops) and i blinded them so they couldnt kill the squishy mage types. Blinding powdwer cost, I am cheap. ~the rat~

Entropy 21:23, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Your suggestion would destroy many PvE solo builds such as the sand shards build. Don't be selfish, PvE is just as important as PvE.--TheDrifter 19:30, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * ...Huh? Entropy 20:31, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think we all know he meant PvP in that last one
 * Sand Shards is a crappy solo build. Noone uses this in PvP anyways. Still makes 0% sense to me. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:53, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

I dont think this skill is as bad as everybody thinks. Its not great, but its not terrible. I once saw somebody in RA use a varient of this build, so I tweaked it until it worked for me. Whenever I feel like using a fun build that totally negates 2-3 attack builds in RA or TA this is good to use. In arenas with larger ppl count it becomes useless as you cant maintain this on too many ppl, but in smaller arenas it is fun and quite effective, even if there is a good bit of condition removal.
 * WTF are you guys talking about??? OF COURSE he meant PvE! Why on earth would you use sand shards in PvP? In PvE, you always have swarms of foes next to you and so you can easily trigger 3 times with a scythe (unless, under that 10% chance, you manage to hit), dealing up to 78 AL-ignoring dmg to all nearby foes, divided in three nice dmg packets (triggers on each missed atk).

It is a little "niche" build, but is works surprisingly well. Make sure you always have MI up and midnight sig will recarge b4 you need it again in most situations. Then once you meet an attack class, use midnight signet on them then place price and spirit of failure on them. If there are more then one attack build in the group run up to them and use plague touch and place price and spirit on them. With good reflexes and practice you can completely surpress 3 warriors, rangers, dervish, assassin and even some paragons.

Does this make this skill amazing? No, but there are many such builds that not only work, but work well, so I dont think it is L.A.M.E, its just not a mainstream skill..-- Kelethan   14:23, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Get Reckless Haste. Spiteful Spirit, Wither, etc are better elites for that sort of build &mdash; Skuld 14:26, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I can see Reckless Haste being a good part of that build. Spiteful Spirit would work I guess, but still even if you echo ss you cant spread the surpression around like you can with Midnight Sig.  And Wither?  I am a little lost as to how that would help in attack surpression.

Actually I just thought of another skill that works in good combo Epidemic. Use Midnight sig to blind one target, then spread it with epidemic to all nearby foes then plague touch away the blind on you to the original target to get a field of blinding. Anyway this isnt the place to talk about builds so I'll leave the build talk alone. As I said its not amazing or even a great skill, just average elite. Could it use a buff to be ranged, yeah that would be nice, but calling it L.A.M.E might be going a bit far..-- Kelethan   20:00, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

I saw this on a spirit nuker rit once. Far more effective than Wanderlust at shutting down a sin that's attacking you. I should know, I was playing one! :P Labmonkey 08:20, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

I also don't agree with the lameness tag. I use it on my mesmer alliance battle build since I'm not doing any attacking anyway. 76.204.95.187 23:09, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

I also agree this skill is NOT lame, however the touch requirement makes no sense and gimps the skill compared to others. At least make it "This skill has half the normal range". Also this skill is good for anything that requires that YOU have a condition, since Blind does not particulalry hurt memsers WingspanTT

ONLY L.A.M.E. THING HERE IS ALL NEWBS WHO THINK THAT THIS SIGNET SUCKS! GREAT SKILL FOR PVE, RA AND GvG WITH PROPER BUILD.


 * Real noobs use Caps lock to emphasize their point, noob. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:20, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Signet of Midnight in GvG? Go watch observer again. --Kale Ironfist 05:06, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Eh. IMO its still lame. Tbh it should also disable skills or somthing.. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 20:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Plague sending... Lost-Blue 20:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Buffed
I think it's not so lame now with a 10 second recharge.Paragon City 23:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you might just be wrong. 220.101.173.37 04:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well he's got a point now it's much more spammable. Though with the SoF nerf SoM+Epidemic+SoF won't be as useful as it used to be against a good pack of warriors (in PVE). The fact that it is still a touch skill is not too much of a problem, because anyway it's intended to use against melee fighter.--PatRedway 22:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

This is getting ridiculous in RA and TA, the 10 second recharge time, and 15 second blind, this can be kept up indefinitely, rendering any damage dealers pretty much useless. I even see sins, lightning ele, and derv with this as their elite now ?!!!

Heros
How it work with them?--Relyk 04:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They'd use it, and be blinded along with the target. How else would it work? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * They will run into touch range and use it. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  05:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Bueraucracy gets in the way again
The notes that this is more useful defensively (i.e. you use it when someone is attacking you in melee, you don't sprint out from the midline, over extend, and blind an enemy ranger or something) and that this is better for casters as they aren't so limited by the blind condition (rather obvious as they don't rely on attacks) have been removed. The last time one of these notes was removed i reverted it, because as far as i can see they are perfectly valid. Now both have been removed, i know its not exactly the same edit, but i think it would be bordering on a GW:1RV breach if i just reverted them again without posting here for consensus reaching. Anyone want to contest that these notes are not valid?-- - (Talk /Contribs ) 16:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I find the summary terrible. It in no way implies that this shouldnt be used on a Warrior attacking a fellow caster. Those notes are completely viable imo. And you are correct, RV'ing it would break GW:1RV. About that... *wanders off* --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 16:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It won't break 1RV once i've left this here for a few hours and nobody comments, then i come back and revert it at an inactive time, nobody notices, no revert war, everyones happy. Always worked in the past ;)...and if anyone asks...this was left here for people to object if they wanted to--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk /Contribs ) 17:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I amz So Stealfz0rz!!!11!1!!one!!shift!11! And any revert of that without attempt to reach a consensus, like i did, breaches GW:1RV, now the bueraucracy is on my side!....for a short while--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 09:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * OK sorry for breaking the rule. Here is my reasoning. 1) Firstly this offensive/defensive thing I don't agree with. All uses of this skill are defensive. Regardless of that, if you see a warrior about to adren-spike your monk you don't think "Hmmm I better wait til something starts hitting me so I can use SoM 'defensively' and get the most out of the skill". Run over and save your monk's arse (which, by your definition, is offensive. 2) The second note is akin to saying "Don't use on monks" on the Earthquake page. Who is going to be tossing up whether to use SoM on a physical damage dealer only to be set straight by this incredibly insightful note? Noone. Buzzer 10:04, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * case 1 is defensivly. you are using it to defend your Monk from the Warrior. I find the 2nd Note a bit.. weird, too. Cause I use this on my Derv. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 10:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Which reinforces my point. If that is defensive use what is offensive use? - Buzzer 10:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Blinding yourself and using Sand Shards. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 11:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, if someone is melee'ing your monk and you run up and poke them with this, then thats still defensive as the war/derv attacking your monk will have passed through your front and midline so you are using this to defend your backline. Offensive blinding could be a blindbot hitting enemy warriors before they leave their front line to delay them in attacking or force them to pull back. As for the second note, we have many notes that state the seemingly obvious, you'd be suprised at some peoples stupidity, go to RA and see monks using meteor shower and warriors using power shot--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 11:11, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I still don't get this offensive blind thing. Offensive skills deal damage or prevent healing. Defensive skills prevent damage or heal. Regardless of whether you run up to a warrior or not to use SoM, you are preventing damage. - Buzzer 17:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If you use this to Blind yourself and then use Sand Shards to deal damage, you are using this offensively. Too bad it only works well when enemies ball up. And thats why it's better Defensive than Offensive. And by Blinding someone thats whacking your Monks, you're defending >> --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 18:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You can blind or hex offesnively as well as defensively. Blind does not merely prevent damage, but effectively puts half the classes in the game completely out of action for it's durartion. Thats pretty much as good as them being dead...minus the DP obviously. Offensively blinding refers to using a blind on players in the enemy front or midline as you are acting, not responding to the action of the enemy. If the enemy starts hitting you or a monk so you run up and poke them, your responding to the enemies agressive action, i.e. defending.--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 18:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Vipermagi, I believe that's the only exception to the rule. Even then, you're only using SoM as a vehicle for Sand Shards. It's indirectly offensive only.
 * Cobalt, look. Blinding prevents damage. That's all it does.  If a purely offensive character is as good as dead, the enemy obviously has less offence but their defence is unchanged. Surely you can see this? - Buzzer 09:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Nerfbat....
this skill needs to be hit by one. too many players abusing this skill both in AB & RA 15s of blindness & 10s recharge???? its over powerd - there is no reason NOT to take this skill in any build or any arena of play because its so IMBA towards Melee classes.

its like when they nerfed "watch yourself" because paragons were using it like some drug addict. its got to a point where ive had to resign in RA a lot of times because 2 mesmers turned up & they were both running this skill on their bars. all i said was 'gg' & sat down for the whole of the round because there is no point going against blindbots.

I could say the same about 'Blinding flash' - that still gets abused but not as much as before since the nerf.

89.240.196.106 04:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is that there are no effective counters to Signet of Midnight. It's a signet, which is difficult to interrupt, it activates extremely quickly, it costs nothing so it can't be delayed with Can't Touch This!, it can't miss or fail or anything. It needs to be changed to a touch skill with a heavy cost but that would require a name change... eh. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Count to twelve after use, watch positioning and be prepared to toss a d-shot or divert the moment they make a bee-line for a melee. Alternatively, divert their plague signet to reduce the build's general effectiveness. Also, you could keep his ass under SoH. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia   04:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well there is a few counters,Well not exactly whats called as 'counters' but Skills like Assassins Remedy & Avatar of Melandru but saying that even Avatar of Melandru has 'down time' & a good mesmer or necro always carrys some form or enchantment removal so its futile to fight 'against' this skill unless your whole team ganks the mes but that would turn the fight into more of a 'war of attrition' to see whose monk runs out of energy first. & ive been in a few of them fights. A monk can only do so much unless they are a prot RC monk. the skill is just way too effective. there should be some sorta condtion that comes with activating the skill like the casters bar is disabled for 1 or 2 seconds - where as this condition might not help at all - it would at least make them think twice about just mindlessly spamming it - they even fucking used it on my monk lol. this situation is no better when they made Shadow Form able to be kept up infinitely - people in RA just ran around - not doing anything & verbally abusing other players - why? because they fucking can & nobody can touch them. If Anet are willing to move the dervish skill 'CHILLING VICTORY' to wind prayers - something totally unrelated then im sure that Anet can do something retarded like that to this skill...move it to inspiration magic or something... /rant over - is there another place where i can vent my frustration to those who matter?

89.240.196.106 18:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Nerfed
Finally, now i can actually interrupt this skill...--Manbeast15 02:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nerf you say, I call dead. Even with super high Fast Cast now it's super ez to interupt. not welite worthy imo.Big Bow 04:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill needed some nerf, but that was over the top: increased recharge would probably have been better. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 04:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)