User talk:Savio

I hear he loves sundering and is just trying to get prices to go down.
 * LOL you're getting eviscerated :p Skuld  00:01, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Welcome aboard. :) --Karlos 02:03, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I've been here for a while now :p I just haven't really gotten around to fact-checking a lot of things. I'm getting off my lazy bum now because there were some egregious errors in the Absorption article that someone had linked to, which makes me mad enough on the forums. And yes, I checked it once again before I edited all the articles, as there always is someone who says "But didn't the last update fix it?" Sigh... off to quell misinformation again. -Savio 07:41, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Great edits. I especially noticed the Arena updates, which definitely needed some help (... and I'd done some of it).  Also, I share  some of your rage, especially the Holy / Light damage issue.  I have to restrain myself from making a scene when Judge's Insight comes up, doing the best I can to try and make the things factually accurate without having to argue too much.  Also, Guru rocks, being the other place I spend any real amount of time reading about guildwars.  Glad to see you getting active.  --JoDiamonds 23:18, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * If we go by the available evidence, then holy and light are different damage types. The former is armor ignoring, and the latter isn't, similar to the situation with the shadow and dark damage pair. In this sense it is simply incorrect to say that holy and light damage are functionally the same. Judge's Insight is an anomalous skill that I believe should say "light" instead of "holy". The alternative is to treat holy damage dealing skills are inherently armor ignoring, but the "skills are inherently armor ignoring or not" schema is both aesthetically unsatisfactory and imperspicuous. Not to put too fine a point on it, but hating players for thinking that holy and light are different damage types is just directing your hatred arbitrarily. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 23:38, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't hate players, just bad ideas. The current facts are:
 * Both Light and Holy damage triggers the Tormentor's +5 damage against Holy attacks. (A simple test is to run around Ascalon with full Tormentor's armor; one of the Monk Charr, I think the Shaman (might be the Martyr though, or possibly both), wields a Smiting Rod. The +20 damage is noticeable when you have 70 AL.)
 * Both Light and Holy damage do double damage versus Undead.
 * All weapons that deal Light damage do not ignore armor. In fact, all weapons do not ignore armor.
 * All skills that deal Holy damage ignore armor.
 * Judge's Insight does not deal any damage on its own, it only changes weapon type. In other words, it's not like Illusionary Weaponry, which specifically states it does a certain amount of damage. It does not cause the target's weapon to ignore armor.


 * The "Holy and Light are different" theory tries to eliminate the whole "depends on skill" necessity, but still has problems with several skills, such as Whirling Defense, Dust Trap, and Judge's Insight. The "depends on skill" theory may not make for fast, hard definitions of skills and damage types, but at least it doesn't have to keep coming up with excuses for itself. Linkie to old discussion.


 * Also as a side note, I don't know what the obelisk arena in Random Arenas is called, and there's almost no mention of it anywhere. How can I make an article about it if I don't even have a name? -Savio 00:39, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


 * If you notice, I was part of that thread! You might also be interested in List of skill anomalies, which was created contemporaneously with that thread (and each cites the other, I believe). &mdash; Stabber (talk) 00:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Reading that article, something occured to me: why does everyone assume that Holy damage ignores armor? From SonOfRah's old article? From the highly outdated online manual? Or does everyone assume that since most Holy-type skills ignore armor, Judge's Insight is in error? -Savio 00:56, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The latter. In all skills involving holy damage, with the sole exception of JI, and even counting the Factions skills, the damage is armor ignoring. This is why I believe that JI is simply an anomaly and that it was intended to be light damage all along. I don't see rational human beings going to the trouble of categorizing their own creations, but secretly putting the lie to their efforts by doing something arbitrary. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 01:00, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * It's an Occam's Razor argument: either one word in one skill is wrong, or at least half a dozen skill descriptions are wrong, or all skill descriptions are wrong (not to mention the dark/shadow symmetry, which has already been alluded to). --130.58 01:02, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * The problem with the whole "all Holy skills ignore armor" thing is that JI doesn't do any damage in and of itself. It's impossible for it to ignore armor or be affected by armor because it has no damage value associated with it. All it does is change weapon damage type, and no base weapon damage has ever completely ignored armor. So I don't know why anyone expects JI to make weapons armor-ignoring, especially as that would make 20% armor penetration redundant. -Savio 01:20, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This is a delicate terminological minuet. Is it the weapon that ignores armor, or is it the damage? I say the damage, which makes the question of whether JI causes armor ignoring damage (to occur) or not relevant. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 01:23, 12 April 2006 (CDT)