User talk:Gravewit

Epoch to 08/25/2006

8/26/2006 to 11/19/2006

See user page.

:P
Sorry to sully your shiney freshly cleaned user page with a complaint but can you take out the 'F' word on your user page? There's a strong anti swearing ideal held by a lot of us (you can do a search for a swear word, you won't find many) and it makes hanging out here more pleasant than most forums. So you might have screwed up, stuffed up, mucked up, buggered up or even ****ed up, but you didn't F-up! --Xasxas256 20:40, 19 November 2006 (CST)


 * I... can't do that. I'm a grown-up. I use grown up words. I didn't bugger up at all. There's only one way to convey what happened, and it is with the prodigious use of the most versatile word in the english language. It's not directed at anyone, it's not aimed at causing a problem with anyone. It is just a word, and one that just so happens to be perfect for the circumstances. Gravewit 14:05, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well I find that disappointing, basically everybody else on the site has decided that we're not going to use foul language because it makes it is unpleasant, regardless as to whom or what it's directed at. I've worked at dozens of different places unloading shipping containers where you'll find some pretty rough language but having more recently been working in numerous schools, I'd have to say the place that I hear the most swearing is the school playground. "Adult" language has nothing to do with being older, it's frowned upon by many of the editors here because swearing never helps an argument. Hey I'm not opposed to swearing, when I'm with mates, sure, no worries and let's be honest, swearing is apparently Australia's greatest selling point! But my experience is that our "keep the language clean" informal policy works well, I find that the forums with the most swearing are invariably the ones that are the most distasteful communities to be a part of, with constant fighting and personal attacks.


 * I've heard that audio clip listing all the great ways the F word can be used but that's rubbish that it's the only way to describe what happened. I don't hear any swearing at my current office job because there's a time and place, we're trying to create a wiki as professionally as possibly here. It's your call of course but it looks bad to me when the user page of the head honcho drops the F word. Why can't you just go back to hating dogs! --Xasxas256 18:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Are you serious? You want to enforce some sort of policy on a person's language on their own talk page? That is bullshit. Yep, I could have used "ludicrous" in place of "bullshit", but it wouldn't have quite the same effect would it? Strong language exists for a reason: to express oneself strongly. You may choose to use different words, but you shouldn't be trying to tell others what words they can use. -- James Sumners 22:20, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * There's no policy to enforce, it's an informal understanding amoungst users. It was but mearly a suggestion and an explanation of my views, if Gravewit decides to ignore it that's fine. The GuildWiki is not a moderated forum, not language wise anyway, nobody will remove posts talk/discussion page posts because of language but foul language drags the place down in my opinion. Your use of the word "bullshit" does your argument no favours, even when used as an example. Again that's just my view. --Xasxas256 22:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)


 * Groundbreaking changes on Gamewikis (Meta!), and all you care about is the use of "fuck"? Sorry, but all I can say here is: "Only in America!" Let's ignore the real issues; as long as we're political correct we're safe. Nobody cares (or should I say: gives a fuck?) what the lyrics of a song actually say, they can be all controversial and offensive if you read between the lines, as long as it isn't said openly nobody cares. But woe if somebody uses a no-no-word, then all hell breaks loose! When I watch American TV (MTV etc.) I find all the BEEEEEPs nothing but ridiculous. But they don't censor songs like U + Ur Hand, which is VERY explicit, if you understand what the lyrics are about. But the words "wank" or "jerk/jack off" don't appear in the lyrics, so everything is fine and dandy. /me shakes head. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:29, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not entirely sure what you're saying Tetris but honestly I just though it was a little distasteful having the F word on Gravewit's page...that's it. As for the massive changes...I just want things to work, you guys can argue who "owns" the GuildWiki, the legalities of mirrors, greater transperancy on the money side, whatever, me, I've already given my thoughts on the performance of the GuildWiki and I'm just happy it's all working again.


 * So that's fine, go nuts, laugh all you want. I'm just disappointed that a long time servant like Xeeron leaves and just two, just two of us bother to say goodbye to him. So laugh it up, swear all you want, Xeeron isn't one of the people involved in the original wikis coming together. He's just a contributor, let him go. You've just lost one long time user and you might just be about to lose another, who cares, plenty more where they came from isn't there? --Xasxas256 03:41, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Huh? What does Xeeron leaving have to do with the use of the F word? Things like Xeeron leaving is what I had in mind when I talked about "the real issues" that we should talk about. To me, the use of a swearword is total peanuts compared to that. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:56, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I can appreciate Xasxas' point. I personally don't swear very often. Equally, though, neither do I intentionally avoid swear words, nor do I know of any informal policy to avoid swearing in talk pages. But I would appreciate being pointed to any examples!


 * Honestly, Tetris, I don't think your contribution above was particularly sympathetic. For a start, what the hell do you mean by "Only in America!"? You know Xasxas is Australian, right? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that Gravewit try to refrain from swearing in what is fairly close to an official statement on the recent server situation. While I wouldn't have bothered myself I don't think that Xasxas should be chastised for doing so.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 07:11, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Xasxas isn't American?? Damn, there goes my stereotype! ;) Nah, seriously, I did know it, somewhere deep inside, but I forgot until Fryen pointed it out to me. Xasxas hit a sore spot in me, and my words came out harsher than they should have, and I apologize for that. However, I still think the priorities are a little off when swearwords are the first and so far only thing that is commented on in message that hopefully marks a milestone for this wiki. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 07:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not sure why it's my fault that nobody else has said anything regarding the server/meta prior to my comment. Besides, before to the new server went in I had my say and afterward I gave thanks. Do I have to wait for someone to comment on the servers/meta before I'm allowed to comment on my "trivial" matter? I'm still sad to see Xeeron leave, which happened while you guys were arguing about who owns the wiki, lack of accountability, fiscal side, mirrors, server performance etc. I mean sure Xeeron left because of those very things but I feel very much like an outsider when you guys start talking about the "original" wiki members etc. Having good servers is important, absolutely, but having good contributors is just as important too, you need both. Amoungst all the chest beating about getting server access, database dumps etc. I felt that a valuable member was slipping through the cracks, you can replace a server but you can't replace someone like Xeeron.


 * Finally how on earth did you think I'm a Yank! I didn't live in the country for nothing, I use the word "mate" all the time! Coupled with copious "no worries", how could you forget! I don't get to chat with you that much Tetris, probably due to the time zone differences, your posts have probably been already replied to in many cases, hence I rarely directly reply to you (and vice versa). Well it's been an interesting night, are we cool now? If so then cheers big ears ;) --Xasxas256 08:25, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * G'day and no worries to you too, mate! I do know that you're Australian, really. How could I not know? You're one of the few people who edit in the time frame when the Americans have already gone to bed, and the Europeans aren't awake yet, so when I get online I see your name in the recent changes a lot. I seem to recall from some talk that you're from Melbourne, or am I getting you mixed up with some other aussie? Did I mention that I've been to Australia? Infact I'm wearing a tie right now that I bought in Sidney! :)
 * I, too, am sad that Xeeron went /afw, but as far as I understood him he didn't "leave". He just stopped contributing temporarily, but made clear that would return when things have improved. Based on recent improvements I'm confident that he'll be back soon. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * This whole thing seems a bit over the top to me. Anyway, the reason why I didn't post on Xeerons talk page was that he clearly stated he didn't want to make a big thing about his vacation/leaving. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:13, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Re:Note
Gravewit, I just wanted to let you know that much of my faith in you has been restored by the fact that you acknowledged that things have been "mishandled" in the past. I hope it doesn't sound patronizing when I say that the sole fact that you openly and clearly admit a mistake has doubled my respect for you. It's something that many people would never do, especially when "under fire". I see it as a sign of strength, not weakness. This was the first - and most important - step in the right direction. Starting the Meta was the second step, and I trust that more steps will follow to ensure that things improve in future, towards more transparency and democracy on Gamewikis. In a spirit like this I'm confident that GuildWiki and Gamewikis will continue to prosper. -- 07:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * Just what Tertis said. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:13, 21 November 2006 (CST)


 * It does take a strong person to admit when he/she was wrong. Adding to what Tetris said, I think this mishap opened a lot of eyes to see that things weren't as they should be and that with this, thing's should and I hope will continue to improve. I think it's hilarous that people actually threatened the guy. Guess some just don't know how to even use the hotkeys without GuildWiki and although threats aren't very civilized, that is kinda flattering that people need GuildWiki so much.
 * The Meta is a great idea to keep users informed of what goes on around gamewikis and behind the scenes. I'm guessing the current server specs will be placed on it, but I'm curious to know what Phil was running before the hardware upgrade. &mdash; Gares 11:33, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Contacting
I was wronlgy accused of vandalising and was confused rainith wihich i am thankful for explained this i visited his user page and it said to contact you here i am contacting you sincerely, Naf :)


 * This is a bug in the wiki software. You are not really banned as you were able to post here. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:56, 13 December 2006 (CST)

Spambot
Theres a spambot at the phpBB forum. Is it a good idea to even have that now we have the meta? Same purpose &mdash; Skuld 13:36, 6 December 2006 (CST)

User page
Would you by chance know how to create a user page? The Necromator &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.80.138.85 (contribs).


 * After creating a user name for the wiki (see the 'log in' link in the upper right corner) and log in with your brand new user, you can find your own user page by clicking your name in the upper right corner. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 01:56, 13 December 2006 (CST)

GW gold ads: The never-ending story
What do you think is going to happen first? My personal guess is: Duke Nukem will win! ;)
 * Duke Nukem Forever is released.
 * ArenaNet add an auction house to Guild Wars.
 * GuildWiki manages to get rid of the GW gold ads.

Sorry to pester you with this yet again. My question is: Are you even trying? -- 08:47, 14 December 2006 (CST)


 * We don't get approval on google ads. They put them up, and we can turn them off if they're bad, but that's all we can do. I've been working with the people at adbrite.com to try and use them, where I *do* have veto power over the ads, before they start appearing. Sadly, the adbrite ads just aren't making enough on their own yet to support our server costs. Hopefully as time goes on they'll get increasing until they can. Gravewit 02:00, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Fansite status
In GuildWiki talk:Fansite status your last reply was:
 * "Have appealed to Gaile with the points noted above, as well as a plea for further guidance. Will post next communication here."

I know it's almost 1/2 year ago, but I'd still like to know. Was there any further communication? Did Gaile reply? -- 02:31, 3 January 2007 (CST)

OblivioWiki stuff
Heya Gravewit, this is regarding OblivioWiki and wasn't sure whether to post this in the php forums (which would seem most logical, but it's not frequented by many and I don't know if you check it out), or here. But since your most recent reply here was December, I'll put it here. There are two two small things on my mind.

First, while editing at OblivioWiki, none of the toolbar buttons show up (the buttons you can press for bold, italics, etc). Instead, it actually writes it out "Bold text|Italic text|Internal link|" etc. Clicking on it still results in the intended effect and I never use them anyway, but that's just something that could be fixed.

Second, can you remove the stat on the bottom of all the articles that tells you how many times an article was accessed? GuildWiki doesn't show that and I'd also prefer not to know at OblivioWiki. Thanks, -- theSpectator talk 17:52, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * How long had the buttons been like that? Since the new server arrived?  --Fyren 01:20, 6 January 2007 (CST)


 * The buttons seem ok to me when I head over to http://oblivion.gamewikis.org/. (running IE6 atm : --Xasxas256 01:29, 6 January 2007 (CST)


 * Thanks for removing the article viewed stats. And yes, the buttons had been like that since the new server/update thing. However, now the buttons are working fine (I'm on Firefox 2.0). Thanks very much, Gravewit! -- theSpectator talk 16:10, 6 January 2007 (CST)


 * Cough. --Fyren 18:44, 6 January 2007 (CST)


 * Oh, sorry, I wasn't sure who did it. Thanks for fixing it, Fyren! -- theSpectator talk 18:47, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Suggestion
I have a suggestion that may allow such features as the gwBBcode (rollover content) to be implimented without affecting site bandwith. I own the gameinspire.com domain and would be willing to contribute my bandwith for a subdomain like gw.gameinspire.com that could act as a mirror of gw.gamewikis.org and lighten the load for all aspects of the site.

It could at least hold a database of skills/items from here that would feed the rollover content.

Gem suggested I ask you. What do you think? Muzikmon 19:45, 6 February 2007 (CST)

My new account
I just created a new account and, as I was editing my userpage, I was blocked. I am not sure exactly why you did this, or if, since I use AOL, it was my IP range, but if you look at my page on Wikipedia,, you can see that what I am least is a vandal. I hope you can unblock me! --Lurio Mystras 12:20, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The fact that you can post in this talk page indicates that you are not currently blocked. It may have been an erroneous notice.  If you can provide more information (an email link is available on my user page) I can look into it for you.  Please provide your current IP if known; although, if AOL, the next time you login it should clear as well.
 * Another option is to contact User:Fyren, who has more access to research issues. Gravewit isn't very active on the wiki at this point, so you may also want to look at GW:ADMIN for other contact names. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:22, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Who does it say blocked you and what is the message given? There is a caching bug that sometimes brings up old stuff &mdash; Skuld 12:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

GameWikis metawiki
http://meta.gamewikis.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges <-- spambots roaming free &mdash; Skuld 15:48, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I took it down rather than installing the captcha. We haven't used it.  --Fyren 19:09, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Data dumps and the builds section
Is there any way I can create a data dump of the builds section as an archive before it's deleted? Thanks, &mdash; Ebany Salmonderiel (T•C•[ M]) 14:46, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Still trying to reach you
would be great to have a phone number... tried you by email and skype a couple times this week, with no response. I think I'm in your spam filter at this point :-) Gil
 * So this is the Gil that now owns Guildwiki o-o

Disappointed in your secretiveness
Not that I believe you give two hoots what I or any other peon thinks, but I am disappointed in how little you value your community. So little, in fact, that you are ready to sell us without so much a word of notice that you were negotiating a price for us with Wikia. I hope you at least had the sense to make a shiny dollar; I would hate to learn that you sold us for pennies. BftP 13:47, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Hoping to ride this one out too?
Phil, I would like you to respond to the issues raised in the move's talk page. I find it extremely convenient that until I showed up on that page, you were active responding to all inquiries until I raised the big issues and poof, Mr.Active disappears, yet again. This has been your M.O. whenever I have raised doubts about your actions and motivations, doubts that turned out to be dead on and completely true.

However, there is a small problem this time... This time, your actions/inactions have legal rammifications. If you do not engage us in our complaints, listen to us, I will go after you legally. I know for a fact that you owe me $50 that you took under the guise of a donation to a non-profit and then used to fund a personal commercial endeavor. If you want me to drag your sorry butt to a small-claims court somewhere or start a law suit to stop the purchase on Wikia's side, then go ahead and keep ignoring the community. If you want this to get REALLY ugly, it's your call. You cannot profit from my contributions, I prohibit you to and you must surrender back to me my donation as well as my share in any profit you made off of my contributions. You do NOT want to be served with legal papers and have your sale stopped. However, if this is what I must do to grab your attention, then by all means, I shall. --Karlos 14:38, 12 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This should have been taken outside of the wiki. The way I read it, Karlos' post is a violation of No personal attacks where it says threats of legal action is a personal attack. 76.104.218.101 09:54, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


 * This is not a threat of legal action over wiki edits. This is over financial contributions proven in the wiki ledger. And this note to him here is simply stating that I DID let him know that I want my money back so he does not claim ignorance. I'm just setting the stage for future action. If you think I broke NPA then you're basically abusing NPA. I have every right to demand my donations back and Phil's "no response to any citicism" approach leaves me no choice. I need to document this for any legal proceedings. --Karlos 11:16, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Just because you have a reason/rationale behind your personal attack, does not make it any less of one. No personal attacks applies in ALL wiki actions, not just where you would like it to be used.  Before you accuse others of abusing the policy, please take a moment to look at your own actions as an outsider would.  The drama that you are raising is not helping the wiki as a whole, and neither is setting up this talk page as a tableau from which to launch a legal case.  Like the previous user said, please figure out your differences privately, hopefully in such a way as to not engender a Civil War that will make the Guild Wiki less of a valuable resource.  Anything less is childish and petty.  --Lucielle 12:36, 13 September 2007 (PST)
 * Deal with the real issue at hand tbh. Karlos hasn't done anything illegal. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 22:02, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


 * If Karlos is breaking policy, then the policy deserves to be broken. I believe the current sysops will understand, given the ridiculous circumstances we're currently in. &mdash;Tanaric 22:09, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

An Open Letter
To: Christian Phillip "Gravewit" Nelson

From: Cory "Tanaric" Petosky

Phil,

Early May, 2005, you started a website called the GuildWiki. Simultaneously, I started a website called the Community Guild Wars Wiki. Both of us hosted these wikis on our personal webspace, doing the best we could for free. Both of us had only a handful of contributors. When I learned of your website, I offered to merge my wiki with yours, so that our respective communities could collaborate in a single place. This merger was very successful -- you more than doubled your content, and the once-segmented Guild Wars wiki community became unified in a single place.

Shortly after, another contributor, Martin Lightbringer, purchased guildwiki.org and donated it to the site. Around the same time, many of us, including myself, Karlos, and a long list of contributors whose Wikinames I don't know, donated money to this venture. It was widely held to be a community project -- you once said something to the effect of, "I'm curious if a community-edited strategy guide can exist solely by community donations and effort. It'd be incredibly awesome if it could."

Our participation greatly grew. Most of the original founders of the wiki, including myself, became sysops. You stopped accepting donations because, as you told it to me, the GuildWiki had so much money that accepting any more donations would be wrong. The plan at that point was to open up donations again later, when the need arose.

This plan changed over time. gamewikis.org was purchased. You, Nunix, and I began discussing privately how to spin this into a commercial venture. We began discussing sponsorship deals with Pirates of the Burning Sea; we would be their official wiki and they would pay us. This deal did not come to anything. Nevertheless, we still intended to make GameWikis profitable. You once promised me a paycheck for the role of "Community Manager." This, again, never happened.

At this point, the management of the GuildWiki became incredibly secretive. I was kept out of the loop -- and so was everybody else. Eventually, I publicly campaigned against you and took a 45 day wikibreak. We have not spoken since this.

I came back because I cared about the community. I cared about this resource. More importantly, I caught wind of the approaching ArenaNet wiki, and I intended to be grandfathered over -- I know quite a bit about wiki and community management now, thanks to the GuildWiki, and I wanted to make sure the Official Wiki started on the right foot. I think the community there succeeded, and I hope that I contributed positively to that.

It was the opening of the Official Wiki that really opened my eyes about you, though. Long before the official wiki opened, you, I, Nunix, and one other person (sorry, I can't remember who now) participated in a conference call with Gaile Gray and Mike O'Brian about hosting the GuildWiki with them. Ultimately, our license caused the problem -- they, as a commercial entity, couldn't host the GuildWiki under the by-nc-sa license. It's curious that, all of the sudden, Wikia, a similar commercial entity, is able to host us.

It's even more interesting that, around that time, you told me privately that GuildWiki ads netted us enough to not only pay monthly bandwidth bills in excess of $200, but they gave us enough to save up for a third server. Fyren added that server to our farm when, under my recommendation, he was given server administrator access.

When the official wiki came out, you publicly stated that you were losing significant amounts of money every month on hosting GuildWiki, even though at the time of the third server addition, you were profiting. You never added me as paid staff, despite your stated intention to do so. You never spun GameWikis into anything self-sustaintly profitable.

In fact, you've taken back or broken every promise you've made the community, and instead conveniently sold the whole enterprise at a healthy profit. And for what? Fyren has done all server administration for the longest time, and Nunix did most of it before that. I handled all community issues on the GuildWiki -- Bishop handled them all on HammerWiki, and other contributors did all the work on the other two GameWikis. Even at our founding, you contributed little in terms of content.

You owe Nunix, Fyren, and I a significant amount of money. You owe the donors their donations. You owe the community your thanks, and your respect. And you owe us all an apology.

Sincerely, Cory "Tanaric" Petosky 21:41, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

P.S.: Please consider this my formal resignation from the position you never ended up paying me for.

Karlos, Tanaric
I will be responding to both of you, this week. I promise. I have not disappeared, nor am I riding anything out safely anywhere. I am reading everything that gets written, and I will respond. I'm just not choosing my words flippantly, as I might have in the past, because people are angry enough. Gravewit 22:45, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * There are other angry users out there as well. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 22:51, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * How many are prominent members of the community working in other respects, who were also involved in the earlier formation of Guild Wiki into what it is today, as well as being financial contributors? It's not that other members of the community aren't important, but that Karlos and Tanaric are in more unique positions.  Mind you, I'm as cynical as ever, and I'm sure the past few days of silence were to plan the course of action through correspondence with Wikia figures, but I'm trying not to be unfair about it. Merengue 22:59, 16 September 2007 (CDT)