User talk:Skuld14148

Lol
Skuld you removed my edits from secondary warrior, but looking back i don't know what i was thinking when i put them in. However, i think the cyclone axe+triple+vicarious should still be in. I mean, c'mon, it's essentially the reason (as far as i know) that there are so many dead swords and celestial items available. Disagree or i'm putting it back in.Dark0805 09:20, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

-1 degen weapons in cantha.
if those weapons were available after factions came out, there is no reason to think they were discontinued at any point. I've also seen a zodiac one. Foo 09:34, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeh I got that wrong, but they were discontinued with nightfall, though i'm unsure as to whether they still drop in tyria/cantha now &mdash; Skuld 09:47, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I see no reason for them to be discontinued. Foo 10:12, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Well if they didn't make an inscription and removed them from being creatable at the pvp menu, theres a chance &mdash; Skuld 10:17, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Interesting. what other weapons are available in game and not in pvp? Foo 10:27, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Slashing damage daggers, piercing hammers, dire pets D= They mostly evened it out come nightfall, but there is still a few oddities. Slashing daggers aren't such a huge difference any more, they changed "Shields Up!"'s functionality. Uh.. -50hp cestas? :D &mdash; Skuld 10:30, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Who the heck 55s in PvP besides the occasional noob that thinks he's so good because he can stay alive and do nothing?&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 18:22, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * "what other weapons are available in game and not in pvp" &mdash; Skuld 18:28, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Im pretty sure these still drop and its just a rumous by ppl wanteing to sell them, really famous non pvp stuff is unconditional damage things and req 7 max :)--Blade [[Image:smallscout.png]] (talk|contribs) 18:30, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We had a +15%dmg -1 degen bow drop yesterday in Tyria, Hard Mode Ring of Fire -Ezekiel 04:02, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

GvG
Hey, you know the Paragon Build, everyone is running? What is its bar? This is all I have so far rofl:

Not good huh... I need it for the current meta-game GvG Team Build (In GvG chat which is in testing right now) Heres: WHat I have so far:

Any suggestions? Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:42, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Aggressive Refrain, AoFlame, GtfE, Spear of Lightning, Res Sig/Sig of Return, filler filler filler. Because paragons are imba and have unlimited energy, "filler" is usually something like Mirror of Disenchant or Gaze of Contempt. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 00:53, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Chilling winds is shit. You can't have a water abr without Frozen Burst, and Armor of Mist is good now. Healing monk needs RoFm and final thrust is bad on that sword bar. I dunno which para bar you mean, theres those revolting expel/shatter storm paragons that everyone is running, and cruel spear ones. More power to focused anger! &mdash; Skuld 02:40, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

K better O' Lord Skuld Imao:

Another question: Should I switch BA for BHA on the ranger? Readem (talk *contribs ) 13:27, 5 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Dunno what your strategy is, couldn't say &mdash; Skuld 13:29, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Not really my strategy per say, I am just trying to keep a semi-accurate idea of what the meta is. I would still put BA, but I have seen a lot of guild use BHA recently... Readem (talk *contribs ) 22:12, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * /Barges in
 * BHA tend to work better in teams, as the daze is easier to take advantage of (daze healer, make kill). A team is easier in taken advantage of these small lapses, while a solo character... is more attrition. Against eles, yeah, dshot watchful, savage mend body and soul (or whatever) and you get 20 seconds to kill him, but BHA tends to be a lot easier for this. You don't want a cripshot or BHA alone, that's all, they take eons to kill NPCs, and you most definetly need screaming arrow unless you want to be useless offensively. A split is useless if you can force the opponent to send stuff back.
 * Another thing, why E-surge? E-burn is good, but E-surge is basically an elite version of the same skill. Trust me, that adjacent damage thing is not worth it, especially when you consider the fact that you get to use it once every 21 seconds, and much less if you only use it against adjacent foes. Eburn is a viable choice for mesmer who want damage... but... e surge. Wastrel's Demise isn't used really, but even that's better. Depending on your emphasis on melee, but MoR and Power Block are the better choices. Pblocking a prot monk casting aegis or an LoD means no prot or infuses for 15 seconds. Effectively, your melee or whatever, if they aren't completely daft, would take that oppurtunity. You can pretty much make half their team explode in the meantime- losing a monk is a big deal, especailly if you spike out the other. If they are smart, they'll go omg run, or maybe they have extra healing from a runner monk, but they can really turn tides if used well. Then again, powerblock water eles and mind blasts for fun, too, those are easier, anyway. Or Bsurges, that too.
 * Why is there weapon of warding on a mesmer? Weapon of Warding is only really good on builds with good energy management, or enough of it to burn (eles, mind blasts). I dislike Icy Shackles to start with, but why you have it on a mesmer I do not understand.
 * Why is there no hard rez? You have two options. Go Rez chant on the mesmer. By the way... WHY DOES THE MESMER HAVE NO DIVERSION? You realize will placed diversion can effectively shut down a whole elite skill, and even bar? Mindblast without mindblast is pretty low pressure, Bsurge means your frontline can zerg the opponent, etc etc etc. Power Leak, is what you want if you want energy deny. 21 energy.... and with MoR. You have no glypg of lesser energy for the mesmer. Anyway, you can fit the rez on either him or the ranger. It's not a popular choice, but SSC has done it, and not completely badly. It's viable.
 * You need energy to use shatter effectively. Save for spikes, shatter is pretty crap, I'd go for MoR drain or mirror anyday. Seriously 80 damage?? I don't want my build to depend on the enemy not catching a spike and vent not lagging to win, so I tend to prefer split and pressure builds. Spike can be used as pressure by exhausting monk's prots and infuses, they aren't necessarily "3-2-1 kill". You have a BHA, which means you should split, that's the only reason you should have a BHA.
 * On warriors, you want rush as a cancel stance, or else you can't be trigger happy with frenzy, which you need if you want to deal decent pressure. Rush is a more effective speed boost, and +3 adrenaline isn't as important on a sword. Galrath's is crap, use standing or rather Shock and Bull's Strike You can't spike with 4 skills anyway, use Protector's Strike if you have to, though those are really too awesome for swords, you need a hammer. Shock would be my choice, since the energy is an issue anyway. So I'd change galrath's for shock (or bull's), enraging for rush. Alternatively, you can have 2 speed stances, enraging can act as a TTL, although why you don't just take TTL I don't understand. Rez sig > Heal sig so you can split with it.
 * Give ranger Rewnew Life (expertise) or Resurrection Chant.
 * Paragon? Looks like a Crippling Anthem one to me. You could go expel + power return like saviors, but it doesn't matter.
 * A BHA alone can't kill shit, even with the help of screaming, just know that. Daze is crap because while it lets you get kills during that period, which is short if they have removal, and they'd know to dodge/run from range, daze = no dshot. Might seem obvious, but if a target is daze, you cannot disable their skills with distracting shot.-Silk Weaker 23:10, 7 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Paragon? Looks like a Crippling Anthem one to me. You could go expel + power return like saviors, but it doesn't matter.
 * A BHA alone can't kill shit, even with the help of screaming, just know that. Daze is crap because while it lets you get kills during that period, which is short if they have removal, and they'd know to dodge/run from range, daze = no dshot. Might seem obvious, but if a target is daze, you cannot disable their skills with distracting shot.-Silk Weaker 23:10, 7 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, first off...

1. I have seen BHA used in more then just teams that split. It is a great skill overall. Slap apply + BHA on a Monk, while the other is being pounded by a gorilla, usually ends matters rather quickly. Secondly, the main difference between a BHA ranger and a BA ranger is that one is a ganker, and the other is Shut-down.

2. E-surge is great. Being able to quickly add 140+ damage to a Monk, and also drain 14 e is extremely useful. After a while, combined w/ shame and guilt, this build can completely shutdown a monks energy. MoR Diversion mes don't work as well, due to the fact you can't maintain diversion anymore. And I don't think Power Block is exceptionally useful in GvG. That's just my opinion though. WoW and WB are just for split purposes to stop a spike on your Monks. Enegy is not a big deal if one doesn't spam. If you don't like Me/Rt, then just go Me/E for GoLE.

3.I don't have Diversion because...well I don't really know why O.o...so I guess it can replace Boon. Hard Res on a mes isn't as popular in GvG anymore, just because teams tend to get spike happy on rez-meres :D. The usual hard res is Sig of Return on the dreaded "Expel Para" Imao. Rangers never carry res besides sig.

4.Shatter is godly.

5.The Wars are exactly what pretty much everyone runs right now. Except maybe Skuld and his Shock axe Pro-ness ;).

6.I would do the Expel Para...but this is Skulds talk page, and I do not want blood here :D.

7. RushReadem (talk *contribs ) 00:01, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I dunno when you de-sync'd with obs mode, but grasping earth is a meta of the past :P Aside from the odd war bars, e-surge sucks. Absolutely sucks. And aside from it sucking, it simply isn't the meta. Mesmers in balanced are either running pblock or MoR. But honestly, I'd say the meta is somewhere between boring builds like this and imba reapers/migraine jade isle builds. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 00:10, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * E-surge is good...guys dissin on the surge ;P. But I don't use it either so I guess I don't count... a good percentage use Conjure Crip slashers, and BB is pretty much always the hammer elite of choice. That or BB. And I rarely see MoR anymore... not sure why. And Auron, you are right, Grasping is the pwnage and I still use that :D (Return+Dark escape are more pop tho...). Readem (talk *contribs ) 00:30, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You can do that.. or you can not suck. Rush is bad? Really? A 20 recharge stance huh? Pre prot? Sure, I guess your monks can waste 10 energy to prot someone when you could just use rush? 3 adrenaline is so worth a whole slot and 5 energy, right?
 * BHA is good, and everyone should have draw/rc.
 * Why weapon of warding on mesmer? You want Draw + Hard rez. Your build has none... Shatter is godly... spikes? Can people get out of that eurospike phase. Because the good guilds always run spike, right? Not. All the high ranking but notoriously mediocre are known for running stuff like Rspike, so if you want to be notoriously mediocre, go ahead. Shatter without a glyph is...
 * You realize that shatter with glyph is only enough energy to divert when you need (as opposed to spam when you go MoR Pdrain), right? With weapon of warding, which is one of the most energy eating skills ever (along with Heal Party and Breeze, with mind blasts, ether prisms and ether prod)... BHA solo is stupid. A BA will kill you. BA for solo, cripshot for team and morale, BHA for spikes. If you can't split someone off with the BHA, don't bother giving him mend touch and troll. That's exaggerated, but yeah.
 * BHA sitting on midline? I guess you forgot blind, draw, and warriors pounding on your ranger. What do you think you are R/Me distortion blackout? =O Only bad teams let a 70 armor dude sit on ther backline. Good monks return/aegis, or rather, /sidesteps. -Silk Weaker 00:24, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Every team pre-prots the wars... I pre-prot wars rofl. Rush in my opinion, is not as good as Enraging. +3 Addren can almost charge a crip slash, and EVERYONE uses it on the thump. Sig of Return is the Hard res. Shatter is godly. You see a Prot spir on a Monk, you shatter. No one spikes these days... everyone pretty much,([Cow], [QQ], [vD]) use heavy pressure Builds. Brett uses a GoLE E-surge Build, the mes on [vD] uses either an E-surge or MoR Build. And No-one I know, goes for the ranger, unless they are snared or Ganked. Rangers are pissers to kill. Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 00:38, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There's one glaring flaw in your logic, and you're trying to use it to defend putting crap into your builds. The players in cow and vD etc etc (QQ doesn't exist anymore btw) can play any build they feel like playing, simply because they are good enough to do it. You aren't as good, I am not as good, and our teams aren't as good as them, so while we can look at their builds and learn, we would be retarded to copy each one verbatim without understanding how it works.
 * I was under the impression that you were looking for a meta build. The "meta" is basically a build so stupidly broken or easy to understand that joe average idiot grasps it and therefore runs it. Good builds that guilds run are made for that guild; this has been evidenced many times (i.e., EW's life bond mind blasters which owned face, but nobody else could run it successfully... another example is Ttgr's SFway which everybody but them failed at running). So if you're looking for a meta, you better not be looking at guilds that rely on pure skill to win, cos you're just going to come out confused. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 00:46, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I never said I could run this lol... personally, my current guild is terrible at PvP in general XD. Besides, this is to be a constantly fluctuating team. My def of Meta is slightly dif from yours as well. My "meta" is a team, or Build that a guild runs excessively, and all the "joes" who suck, attempt to run lol. This is for fun mostly, and besides everyone can learn something from others. And Auron, these are Build I see being played (or attempted to be played) everyday. I only play a War or Monk, so half these Build I truly know nothing more then what I see, hear, and learn. Why in hell's name do you think I am asking Skuld for advice? <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 00:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * SF way is quite funny btw :D. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 00:57, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Auron pimping his own build?
 * "Every team pre-prots the wars... I pre-prot wars rofl. Rush in my opinion, is not as good as Enraging." Well, if you don't see the absurdity of that, then there's no point discussing further. I'll say it one last time anyway, enraging is needed for hammers, rush is good due to energy, length and availibility. Preprot warriors? What's reflex for? Why do you think we have an infuser? If I could keep spirit bond on every character on the team at all times and suffer no ennergy issue, then you've got a really enemy.-Silk Weaker 01:32, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Again, in english this time? :P -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 01:33, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll speak Chinglish when I want to, thank you very much. -Silk Weaker 01:36, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Um, no one keeps SB on anyone... and I really don't like rush. "In my opinion", Rush is not as useful as Enraging. Try pre-proting sometime man, it really saves energy. And only keep it on the wars...I thought this was common GvG Knowledge. Good Monks Pre-prot usually in the downtime. Infusing is not only reflexes man. Its about awareness. Good Infusers are not trigger happy. When they see a spike they are able to gauge the situation. Now if you don't mind, I have to get off for a while and sleep lol. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 01:43, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Try using both Rush and Enraging Charge... and nobody keeps prot on the wars 24/7, it's a waste of energy. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 01:50, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Begin match only.
 * Well of course you pre prot, do you expect to prot someone before he takes damage? Good monking and team work means mitigation of damage, either through spells, skills, or just positioning. To say that pre prot means that you don't need a cancel stance, though, is bullshit. 20 second recharging cancel stance is going to mean less frenzying, and yes, taking both is a good option, I've said it already. If you use enraging, I prefer using it wither with tiger stance, or another cancel stance. Flail, I guess. kinda. If you're hammer.-Silk Weaker 02:14, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Pre-prot only goes in the begin of first fight, it wastes no energy, and I never said you don't need cancel. Only that you don't need rush. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 20:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Shiverpeak Longbow
Why are you putting a delete tag on it?? :S &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA  12:20, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Because, pardon my french, its completely fucking useless? &mdash; Skuld 12:27, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * it is a talk page? I wanted to discuss something on it.. &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 12:29, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Wikipedia only allows discussion related to the article, there is no policy here, but its an unwritten rule that its a lot more leniant, however I consider "lulz power shot" to have crossed that line. If you posted that on any forum it would be deleted in a flash. &mdash; Skuld 12:32, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Since when is guildwiki wikipedia? &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 12:34, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm using it as a parallel, do try and read more carefully. If you don't have any real debunks, begone with ye. &mdash; Skuld 12:37, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Not fully understanding you, I'm not native English. &mdash;<font color=#d8be01>Sig <font color=#2a7510>mA [[Image:Sigm@Oo.gif|19px]] 12:39, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

I've officially crossed over into the "i love skuld lol" camp. &mdash;Tanaric 09:03, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
 * *Frown* You are not supposed to love Skuld. Skuld has an obnoxiously large talk page forum, and plays Guild Wars way too much. Bad Admin, bad! Love Skuld's 1337ness, not Skuld. (This comment has been brought to you by a communist, and is being posted on the great Skuld talk page/community forum of randomness) <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 22:20, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

Vandalization Help Request
I haven't been on in about a week due to my motherboard having crapped out on me. I just logged back in for the first time and my page is blank. I think I've been the target of vandalization. Could you take a look at it for me and make the appropriate revert. I would, but I don't want to mess anything up any further than it already is. Thanks in advance Skuld.--&mdash; xis10al   18:33, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Done. &mdash; Skuld 18:34, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks alot!--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 18:54, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

secondary professions for a skeleton.
stop evicerating those articles. they're supposed to be a wholistic discussion of the combinations, not metagame pointers for the top 1% elite PvPers. --Honorable Sarah 20:40, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * But they make no sense, and some of the suggestions are bad! We should just post skills and proffs, that are ACTUALLY beneficial to the primary. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 20:57, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We're clearing out the crap. Please don't re-add the crap, Sarah. I've already left a comment on this on your talk page... please avoid cluttering these secondary profession articles with bad advice, simply because it theoretically works or is nice based on crits. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 21:01, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * see also User talk:Honorable Sarah --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 21:21, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Stop adding dumb things sarah, we're trying to create some decent articles, not crap-strewn abominations. &mdash; Skuld 02:24, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
 * then talk about stuff people who want advice need, not the HA metagame "best". the rank 15s are too busy fame farming to care what we put into this article, and people who need to know which profession to choose are not going to know that mending sucks unless it's in that article. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 02:26, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you high on stupid juice? What has HA got to do with anything? &mdash; Skuld 02:30, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Invited
You are invited to participate, in the new SoW, chosen by Cheese Slaya. Good luck and have fun :D. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 20:57, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Question, if it's not too much trouble
What do ya think: On a Mesmer/Ele with 15 fast casting and 12 water. It works well in RA but i never have a chance to try it anywhere else.(My guild leader will kick me if i show up to GvG with anything other than my BA build).Dark0805 12:20, 10 May 2007 (CDT)


 * What is it trying to do? Nuke? You don't have any decent spammable snares or blurred vision, and you'd be better running E/x for the monk, rit utility tbh. &mdash; Skuld 12:23, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Mainly it just spreads damage, as Shatter and vapor are fairly spammable. It has decent survivabilty, and maelstrom and deep freeze on monks is something that i find to be a deadly combination. To be sure, before they nerfed GoLE, it was much better. But it's still fine now. I'm just wondering if it would stand up to anything other than idiotic restful breeze warriors and such in RA.Dark0805 [[Image:Kinetic_Armor.jpg|19px]] 12:29, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Blurred vision and freezing gust? Lord of all tyria 12:31, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Definitely wtb those. Without it, the warrior will beat on you and won't be snared or missing you. He'll just be pounding your face. Not a good idea :/ Tbh, just dropping shards for gust would make this more viable. Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 12:33, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Fine, freezing gust instead of shard storm. Though truly i find the drawbacks of shard storm are outweighed by the unconditional damage.

Dark0805 12:37, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Vandalize?

 * This wiki is making some mistakes, the other day I got a "message" that linked me to "my" talk page which had a lot of talk on it, I don't even have a page on this wiki, I have never made any. You guys are mistaking IP addresses.
 * I also just saw a page that linked to my "contributions" i seriously did not edit anything on this wiki, so I have no idea how they believe it is me. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.12.117.7 (contribs).


 * <-- the IP did that. It may not have been you, but someone using that IP did. Do you have a dynamic IP? &mdash; Skuld 18:02, 10 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Your IP is with AOL. AOL share IP addresses amongst their users, so the contributions and talk page were intended for the person who previously used this IP address. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 05:39, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

I am just gonna stop all these problems and create my own account. I'll just copy my user page from wiki.guildwars.com to stop all these problems. I love this wiki but I don't edit anything. 64.12.117.7 10:52, 12 May 2007 (CDT)
 * OK done, my page: Power WM, lets hope this stops all these problems. Power WM 11:24, 12 May 2007 (CDT)


 * They're not problems, they're how the wiki should work. But registering account is a good idea. <span style="font-family: Georgia, serif"> &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 18:10, 12 May 2007 (CDT)

Paragon/Ranger
I think going P/R just to use Serpent's Quickness for permanent Focused Anger is notable enough to put on the paragon secondaries page. How is nigh permanent, unremovable double adrenaline gain unworthy of being mentioned but Shatter Storm/Mirror of Disenchantment P/Me's and blind spamming P/D's are? Also, why was Vocal Was Sogolon removed long ago when it's clearly made for paragons. "Because it sucks" isn't a good enough reason. Kind of odd you removed that but kept the Mirror of Disenchantment note. --Heelz 15:47, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Mirror of disenchantment is used by many paras in pvp. That's why it is there, I can't comment on serpents tho. Lord of all tyria 15:48, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I used mirror in PvE until I got tired of paragoning. But the SQ note is more suited to stick on the SQ page; not on the paragon one. Focused Anger being up 3/4 of the time is quite fine as it is, devoting an entire second class to that extra 15 seconds of anger isn't worth it. Paragons have unlimited energy, so stuff like mirror of disenchant spam is easily doable and effective.
 * Vocal was sogolon is a junky elite, even if it was obviously made for paragons. Dwarven Battle Stance is obviously made for hammer warriors, but... it still sucks. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 15:54, 11 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Vocal was Sogolon =/= elite. There are better reasons to run P/R. They make excellent condition-pressure builds, for example. But yeah, see Auron's argument. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 11:10, 12 May 2007 (CDT)