Talk:Game updates/Archive20

Clean
And archived.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 03:18, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You may be clean, but the stench will always remain. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 20:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Echo! echo.... echo... echo....... (GW-Kiron 05:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC))
 * You have to cast MS eventually :|--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 05:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was echoing flare. that way if they divert it or dshot it im still pro (GW-Kiron 00:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC))

Big Update
It tomorrow? Or next week? &mdash; Powersurge360  02:53, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Next week. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * THE Big Update? That's in 2 weeks, I thought.  I remember seeing the 28th come up.  *shrug*  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:21, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's Guild Wars' 4th birthday. The event, which will coincide with the Big Update, starts on the 23rd. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Big update needs Big skill change (GW-Kiron 19:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Sorry to inform you, but no Big skill change in the Big update. Big skill change is scheduled for May sometime.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:26, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If no skill change is in the Big Update, then what is in it that makes it big? If that question makes me ignorant, then sorry edit: nevermind, i found what i needed 98.27.164.4 22:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it supposed to be there already ? — TulipVorlax 19:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think they update between 6 to 8pm eastern time, but I have no idea if it is today. Big Bow 19:47, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What i meant is that i was thinking that creatures were supposed to drop cupcakes already. The date of the event is the 23, and it's supposed to begin at noon on Los Angeles time. — TulipVorlax 19:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The event page says "after the update". Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 20:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Update here
New update is live. About 11MB 670 odd files. Hilariously all your characters look tottally different at log-in. Message says you need to log-in for them to look normal again. Take your screencaps while you can :P. EDIT: Best news of all: Nicholas Sandford and P.Yakky are alive in Post! -Starkers 00:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I know, they're ugly, lol. — TulipVorlax 01:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Lol at the hilarious login. Also, GG ANet on getting me excited about a stylist, then smacking me in the face with "Oh, and it's another of our wonderful microtransactions! Just $10 for 5 basic makeover tokens!" -.- Qing Guang 05:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fifteen for a name change. C'mon, NCSoft - we're in a global recession - give us a sale and cut prices in half as an introductory special. :P  Jink  14:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Moss Spider
New pet, now you can get another spider!76.188.100.220 01:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * now to figure out how to get zaishen coins...or get 50k Balthazar faction...-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 02:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Kinda sucks they don't let you pay in portions, you need gladiator or other such tracks to pay for it in balth faction 76.188.100.220 02:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The silver and gold coin prices are rather ridiculous... For an average PvE character, it will take 108 days to get the large equipment pack, PvP'ers got the elite treatment on those quest rewards.  I hope the bounties aren't all to get elite dungeon bosses, but at least some of those can be ran or done with H/H, as long as it's not Kanaxai/Urgoz/Mallyx on a 3-day rotation... >_<  On the plus side, I got almost all pets now (only missing 5), and half of them are max tier. :D RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Most disappointing update, ever.
Never been one to complain about updates, always thinking "at least they still care for the game", but this has just killed all my morale to play. GG Anet 83.86.255.105 11:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And how did they kill all your morale to play? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * By offering pay to have things... (For me they put in enough free thigns) — TulipVorlax 12:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Most depressing player, ever. C'mon, seriously? Not everything costs money, there's a whole crap load of daily missions and bounties for you now, more character storage, a bundle of new items that you can get daily. Double-you tee eff are you whining about? Because they also gave us the option to buy extra stuff if we want? Get over it will you? If you or anyone else here wants GW2 to be any way awesome, then money is needed. They aren't robbing you, they've put things into the game in EXCHANGE for your money. This is life, money swaps hands alot, so what? -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 22:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You may SLIGHTLY be overrating the "new content", however. The dailies reward you for...doing missions you've already done, killing bosses you've already killed...not exactly what I'd call "new content". Maybe an incentive to replay older stuff, but in and of itself it's not what I would consider new content. Menagerie is nice, but I'm not happy about the stylist being a pay service, as I said, even WoW lets you have that at no extra charge:-/ DKS01 01:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually WoW charges you monthly for that service, well that and many others, but they still ultimately charge you. And yes, they have stated that the update was to help increase replay value while we wait for GW2.  Trying to get groups together in some of those areas can be somewhat of a pain really.  Because of that it can allow for certain titles can be achieved more quickly for many players.  And since the next game isn't going to be released for quite a while they could do with the extra financial boost.  Otherwise Guild Wars could turn out to be too much of a financial drain for them.  While not everybody will be happy with having to pay for some of the extra content, it is understandable.  I for one probably wont max out my storage space, or change my characters appearance or name.  But if for some reason you want to change your character to a female and call yourself Loretta, we shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies brother...er sister.72.226.249.89 02:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The difference is, WoW didn't add an EXTRA(that was the key word you missed) real money charge to do it when they introduced the feature. If you were playing the game, you could do it for in game money. Here, we've already paid our "price" to play the game by buying the campaigns, we shouldn't be charged extra for features like these IMO. Honestly I wouldn't use it anyways, I'm happy with my guys looks, but regardless, it's annoying. And yeah, maybe the dailies will make it easier to find groups, maybe it won't, but it's still not new content to my eyes. DKS01 02:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No, I didn't miss it. The point is, regardless of how you slice it, they're still charging you for those services.  In the past ANET was able to make money by releasing new campaigns.  Since the majority of their efforts are being allocated elsewhere (GW2), they can no longer do that.  Now they have only a few other options open to them.  One, they do as they did and charge for the extra content and piss only a few people off.  Or two, they could start charging a monthly fee and piss a lot more people off.  After all, the major appeal that this game has over others of it's kind, is that it possess no monthly fee.  However continuing to host the game costs money.  So therefore they still need to make money, and charging for the extra content was the only way they could do it successfully.  Also please consider what their mainly charging money for are aesthetic qualities (something most people probably dont care about anyways.  But hey, if they want to, go for it.  I wont), and storage (something that actually does cost ANET money.  Sure it probably doesn't cost them as much as they charge, but like I said earlier, they do need to make money.  Although over time the additional storage could cost them more than they're charging us).  As for the zaishen quests, big deal, that part was free.  They needed to help keep people interested in the game.  And from what I've observed so far, it has.  Although over time some people will probably lose interest again.  But in the meantime, it's working.72.226.249.89 12:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they're charging you for the game. You are paying the same to use the stylist as before there WAS a stylist, which means you're NOT paying anything extra for them. THAT is the point, they ADDED that as an additional feature with no additional charge. Anet is adding the same feature, with a $10 fee. I'll also point out Diablo 2 and Starcraft are still free to pay after all these years with no monthly fees, if we wanna get on the free vs pay subject. And with Anet proudly bragging about their "6 million sold" on the GW homepage, I don't think they're all that strapped for cash. DKS01 00:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

(ri) Keep in mind that for a while now the price of the game has dropped significantly (down to $10 if you look hard and/or buy combos), so they're not making as much money per sale of one campaign as one would think, considering manufacture, distribution and retail fees. The 6 million copies sold only goes to say that people like this game, not how much money it has made. And WoW has nothing to charge for other than server space (GW server space is still free), and working on any updates, such as the stylist you mentioned. So, would you rather pay monthly to get the stylist you may never use, or pay for it when you need it? Buying all the new upgrades (the 4 storage panes, one normal makeover, one extreme makeover and one name change) still only amounts to 40+10+10+15=$75USD. How long would that last you in monthly fees to play WoW? Not 4 years, me thinks. I'm not saying the prices are entirely fair (some of those should be about half of what they are imo), but I still don't think they should be simply free. And don't bring character slots into this, or GOTY, which was an upgrade for those who owned a normal version instead of the GOTY edition (Anet didn't even have to give you the option to upgrade, but they did). RoseOfKali 05:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I totally empathize with NCSoft trying to make a little extra money before GW2 comes out, but I do not like the idea of them releasing a massive overhaul patch and having it buggier than Windows Me. Futhermore, I am upset about the free storage pane set up, and they really ought to scrap the current process and put it on the in game store. The longer they hold out, putting it on the main site, the more PO'd their customer base will get. I am telling you this, I am NOT BUYING GW2 from the website, especially if this past weekend is any indication of what is to happen. This patch was not disappointing in concept, but moreso in delivery, it wasn't entirely thought through it seems. Way to announce your 6 millionth sell and then bog down your whole site to crash levels by trying to provide a free service there with an obstacle course involved.Why not just take a million dollars, put it in a suit case in the middle of a stadium with ten doors and tell a million people to go for it. Stupid. Furthermore, character altering? Really? To each his own I guess but, it just seems like GW is sinking to the level of WoW.Time to finish my GWAMM and ignore these "panes." Peace, and yes that was a pun. Crovo 05:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just FYI, WoW only added the appearance change feature very recently, and people have been asking for it here long before it was a WoW feature(hell, people have been asking for a "barber" or some such here since Factions was released). Admittedly, they weren't asking to PAY for it, but it's hardly a case of GW just imitating WoW... DKS01 05:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

This update is...
...available in the In-Game Store. I'm sorry, why update a game everyone's already bought if you're going to charge for the updates? Stop bothering and go work on GW II. I wouldn't mind if you didn't need a credit card for about half the new content, this is a joke. --> ST 14:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The game has been free-to-play for 4 years now. Don't blame them to try and get some funds in, it's been a while since they released anything you had to pay for.  Besides, you don't have to get any of this, it doesn't offer new quests or missions or skills or areas or whatever.  You can live without the extra storage panes, and you can just remake a character instead of paying for a makeover or name change.  The "real" new content, like the Menagerie, Zaishen quests, and the new items are all still free.  The only thing is that the extreme makeover and the name change should have been $5, not $10 and $15.  Storage panes could also use being $5.  I'm ok with $10 for a pack of 5 makeovers, though, that's only $2 per makeover.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, $2 for a makeover is too much. When I saw the update and saw the stylist bit, I was very excited; I scrolled down to see how many plats he charged or if you had to have zoins or something. I've been willing for a long time to pay 5k+ for this (great gold sink, coulda helped the economy), but when I saw that it was $10 I basically said "Screw this!" ANet knows we've been begging for this for a long time, and I give them kudos for kind of giving it to us, but the fact of the matter is that they think they can make a buck by selling it to us, and a large part of the community is going to let them get away with it because they want it so badly. Yes, it's been a while since they released the last expansion. But it's not like they're not selling anything; a Guru thread just announced 6 mil copies sold, and I'm always seeing new "is this game good" threads that usually result in the person buying the Trilogy box set. I'm just afraid that GW, or more likely GW2 if it happens, is going to turn into one of those cheap Asian games like MapleStory, where everyone who doesn't have cash shop armor looks like a nublet, and there's this gap between the haves who are willing to waste cash making there characters look good and the have nots who aren't or can't. Or worse, it'll be Perfect World, where I hear you can't get diddly-squat done past the low levels without cash shop items. I'd much rather see a buyable add-on more along the lines of the BMP, with maybe 2 or 3 new dungeons or missions for $10. That's reasonable; it's a mini-expansion. Charging us for cosmetic stuff reeks of "cheap". Qing Guang 15:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

This one amuses me. For $10, I can get one 16 slot tab of storage space. Or I can get a new character slot, give him a belt pouch, a couple bags, and if you want, a 5 slot gear bag, and get 45-50 slots of storage space. Remind me again why I should buy a tab? And wow, even well, WoW doesn't charge real life money for their equivalent of the stylist. -.- DKS01 20:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * A storage tab is 20 slots. With the largest equipment pack (20 slots), you can get up to 65 slots on one character.  I have 14 characters.  I don't think I'll be buying any storage tabs...  So now the grayed out tabs in the vault just look annoying.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I hate how they stuck those in there. They never did that with the tabs you missed if you didn't have the other games! I think they're trying to make it look hideous so you're persuaded to buy them... not gonna cut it, ANet. I'm still not paying through the nose for a couple of stupid storage panes. Rather just buy another slot for that ranger I've been thinking about. Qing Guang 15:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just hoping that enough people have this attitude for Anet to notice that they're not selling any tabs, and maybe decide to drop them to $5 instead. MAYBE I'll consider them then.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've buyed all panes on my main account and got the free one on my others 2 accounts. My first account contain 12 characters and wont get anymore. My second account contain 8 characters and until today, that acount didn't have acces to GWEN. The third accound was my storage one. It's not that i wanted a third account. I made a mistake when i wanted to buy a second copy of Nighfall; i buyed a third of Factions instead. Duh!
 * But now with the new panes, some of the stuff in my storage will get back on my main account. I'm thinking about collectibles and consumables. But since i got too much miniatures (most characters are at least 2 years old), my storage account will stay usefull. — TulipVorlax 05:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL'd like I've never LOL'd before. How true.  68.193.113.198

Hall of Monuments
I noticed an oddity with the new Hall of Monuments. Nearly all my acheivements displayed in my old Hall was under my Ritualist character. I logged on with her first and toggled over to "account view" via the historian and validated that pretty much nothing changed. Then I logged in with my Warrior character and went to the Hall. His hall was empty as expected. I switched over to account view and all the items my Ritualist had posted appeared. Up to that point it was "as expected". The unexpected part was the Monument of Resilience. It showed my 5 posted armor sets, but the statues were very odd. It showed a few large (normal) statues, but a couple were a Ritualist and one was a Warrior. Then there were a few mini statues displayed also that were about half the height of the normal statues, and one was an Assassin. I took a screen shot but haven't posted it yet. Just curious if others are seeing oddities like this too? Shadowlance 14:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, say you have Elite Luxon armor unlocked via your Necro. Your Dervish can't have a statue of it, but you deserve credit all the same. So you get a mini statue of the armor on the character that got it. At least that's the way I'm understanding it atm --> ST [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 14:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Scratch that. Mini statues are random professions of unlocked armor. --> ST [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 14:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In my case, my Warrior hasn't purchased any elite armor - all were purchased by the Ritualist, yet the Warrior saw seven statues (not five): 3 large warriors, 2 small Ritualists, and 2 small Assassins. Shadowlance 14:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I saw my Sin standing in Vabbian armor, whilst it only has Elite Kurz and Shing Jea (or something else 1.5k). You see the two armors statue when that armor is not available to you I think. Elite Imperial, perhaps? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * For the "generic" statues, you get a male and a female. For one of my grotto armors I got a Male Ele and a Female Necro.  I do think they could be a little larger, closer to the life-like statues.  And the black heads are a little creepy...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I saw the little doodads when I went in on my dervish (my monk has Kurz armor). They oughta change the statues to the Doppelganger or something! That'd be cool. Or better yet, now is the time to add in some of those armors they've been missing... I oughta go and lobby for Kurz/Lux for paras and dervs again. Qing Guang 15:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I went to HoM with my war, clicked character only display. At armors there are(mine) warrior primeval , next to it a female ele with ( i think so) primeval. and my war only has 1 elite armor. :S Meraida 04:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Zoins
I can't put my Copper Coins on the storage for whatever reason, however, the notes state they are transferrable between characters. Anyone else noticed this? --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  14:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Apprently it's a known bug -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 16:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * OMG IT"S A BUG?!!! *dances around* I thought this was intended... :P YAY, it's not going to take me 3 months to get my first 20-slot pack! RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I really wish they'd get onto fixing this already. I have a PvP character with 175 coins that I want to put into storage. I can't delete him until they fix the bug. -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 05:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was expected today, but never happened. I guess there's more to it than they expected.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Menagerie
Its good to see pets getting some love from ANET! But pets love to get stuck behind NPCs, especially resurrection shrine attendants. I'm beginning to wonder if the have stalker nip in their pockets. So, what do we get from ANET? Why, a place specially made for pets with so many more NPCs for them to get stuck behind!! And they do :-( Please can we beastmasters have some simple routing fix or some way of getting our pets unstuck rather than having to traipse half the way round an explorable area to fetch them. After all heroes and henches don't get stuck so often. Please, please, please.Thalestis 17:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect, I love a place for pets, but why do they offer pets for Balthazar Factions??? This is just kinda... ANet, thank you, really...--84.42.171.8 17:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The reason pets are offered for Balthazar faction is for PvP-only characters or accounts who don't want to buy the unlock pack. For a hardcore PvPer it's much easier to spend some faction on this, rather than develop a PvE character, go get the pet, and level it to 20 hearty or dire (think of pets like Black Moa, Imperial Phoenix, Black Widow, Hyena - all are rather hard to get for undeveloped PvE chars).  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But aren't all pets wolves in PvP matches? What is the point hardcore PvPers of having "prestige" animal companions that can only be fully used in PvE, and then only outside town? Pure PvE players like me rarely get much Balthazar faction, often only what we pick up in festival events, so we have to use gold and those new zaishen coin thingies.
 * I've got a Rainbow Phoenix, but frankly I want my old faithful workaday Melandru's Stalker back :-(( I know I can get another, but it won't be quite the same. Heck, the only reason I have to go to the Battle Isles is to go to the Menagerie! Until now I can count the number of times I've been there on one hand.86.132.149.7 21:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The point is so pvp characters can get Hearty and Dire pets. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh... it seems that you missed the part where PvP players can now get ANY pet, not just the wolf. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked this out yesterday morning, and it's a beautifully designed area... they didn't just make it look like a cobbled-together Shing Jea reconstruction. But do you have to actually give your pet away to the tamer to have it appear in the Menagerie? I told her about my Jingle Bear, and she said it'd been added, but I couldn't find it. And there's no way in heck I'm giving away FuFu. Qing Guang 15:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Jingle Bear is located at the very back of the snowy area (once you release one), you have to zig-zag your way up through the spider cave. When you "release" a pet, it will roam in the menagerie in its appropriate habitat, so my rivers are now full of crocodiles, flamingos, and cranes, and my beaches are swarming with lurkers, etc.  :)  You can get any unlocked/released pet back for free from Wynn, with the highest unlocked evolution/level for the species.  So, if you have a level 19 pet, do not release it, get it to 20 first, or you will only get a level 15 back, since that's the highest tier you can unlock with the level 19.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

(RI) Oh, and Wynn will only have pets with tier 2 or higher. If your unlock is only a tier 1 (level 3-5 pet), you will have to find it in the habitat and charm it there. RoseOfKali 19:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Anybody else failing to get 'FREE' Xunlai chest upgrade?
After several hours of following the GuildWars.com instruction meticulously, and using various permutations, I've yet to get anything like a coupon offer, nor can I even select the account to apply it to. Extremely execrable and stupid--why not just give a free slot with first purchase? GW-Susan 04:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I followed the instruction exactly, and was able to get my free storage pane. The website was experiencing some pretty bad bandwidth problems the first day, but Anet was working on adding more servers, and the traffic should be lower now anyway, so just try again.  I got an error message in the last step the first time, but got the free pane on my second try.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:18, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've visited NCSoft at least 15 times to get an account; the server always times out.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 07:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The 21st visit was the charm. Don't know if it was because I used IE 5x in a row or because, instead of trying to add an account first, I followed the instructions exactly (buying the pane, using the Buy button on the first two screens at NCSoft). Anyhow, woot!  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 08:04, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still can't get mine. Always fails -_-" -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]]  † F1 ©  Talk  08:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still trying to add mine... But im not that impatient for it, the offer doesnt expire until end of next month. TwilightRhapsody 08:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Invalid Coupon Code. The Coupon Code you have entered is either not available on this product, or you have exceeded the maximum number of uses. Xunlai Storage Pane (Guild Wars® 4th Anniversary Storage Pane) Coupon FREESTORAGE .. well, i think i'm gonna stop trying, or it's just me that's failing. In that case, do enlighten me. Got no 4'th anniversary pane added yet so. Kurtan 09:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 7th time is the charm. Finally got through. TwilightRhapsody 11:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I also "exceeded the maximum number of uses." Hopefully this is fixed somehow.  I don't know why they don't just give it to anyone who logs in.  We're all going to try to get it anyways, and it's just causing them site issues. -Phazor 16:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's pretty dumb to make us do all that stuff. The people who can't get on this weekend will have permanently lost 1 storage slot. And ofcourse it's just to make people register in the store, so they hope more people will buy their stuff.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 17:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Iirc, you have a whole month to get it. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:07, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, yeah, looks like I misread.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 18:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * People need to register in the store to go buy GW2 there = more profit for NCsoft. -- ◄mendel► 19:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That depends on whether or not people have their eyes on GW2 rather than the other big-name mmos scheduled to come out soon. It may mean more profit for NCsoft to to sell GW2 and/or other content directly, but slip-ups like this can discourage customers from future visits. --72.220.202.201 20:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I was able to obtain my free pane but after a long ordeal through the darkness of ncsoft's website. Actually, what worked for me was going to the us website, which works faster and better ( and harder and stronger ). GW-Topinambour 09:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * A few days ago, i wasn't able to get the free pane for the second GW account i linked to my PlayNC account. But today the bug is solved and i have it on my 3 accounts. — TulipVorlax 05:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Anyone know if there's a way to reset your GW account to a new NC-Soft webpage acount? i forgot my name + password from like..2 years ago when i last used it...as far as i know there's no way to fix this..-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon 23:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * well it "looks" like i remembered my account info, but now when i go to link my game it says "that account is already linked to another account" and then sends me back to the same page saying "contact customer support" with a link that takes me to the same page...-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Priest of Balthazaar undoc'ed change
This may be a noob thing, but i dont recall before this update a little gold bar at the bottom of the Priest of Balthazar menu (under the Skills or mods tabs) that says "Remaining Account Bonuses: 1...." exactly with periods and everything, im not sure if i missed it looking through a bunch a pages to see what this means, but does anyone know what it is? 20:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont see it[[Image:FlowSig.png|floWenoL]] (Talk to me)  20:53, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * well i bought aname change and a make over on friday, but now sure why that would do it... anyways this is what it looks like  [[Image:Priestofbalthnewundoc.jpg|200px]] [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 21:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What about the free storage upgrade? You have it? [[Image:FlowSig.png|floWenoL]] (Talk to me)  21:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah, i got that too [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 21:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * i have it so it shouldnt be caused by it [[Image:FlowSig.png|floWenoL]] (Talk to me)  21:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it just indicates that you have an unspent name change credit. It'll probably do the same for makeover credits until you use them.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * well i already spent my name change, and i have 3 makeover credits, and why would it say it on the priest of balth screen?? [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 22:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Because you still have 3 Makeover credits. See what happens when (if) you spend them all.  And the priest of balth keeps track of much of your account stuff, like all your unlocks, so it makes sense to put that notice there if you have remaining account upgrades/credits.  Where else would they put it?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * well why would it only show a "1...." ?? and its 2 bucks per credit, so im not gonna use em if i dont need em atm [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 22:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The 5 makeover credits are considered a single upgrade or the same type of item, and you used part of it, but not all. If you had regular and extreme credits left, it would probably be a 2.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, kinda makes sense now. ty [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 12:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Please, keep in mind, I'm just speculating, but this makes the most sense to me. If anyone can confirm, this screenshot and information should be added to the priest's page.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have 5 makeovers (no extreme ones) and i dont see this anywhere. Or maybe i dont look for the right priest ? Does the one in GH supposed to have this ? — TulipVorlax 12:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you looking at the skills/mods tabs, as Shogan pointed out at the top? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I also got this one (noticed yesterday) but I didn't buy Makeover Credits, only 1 Renaming and already used it. looks like it is something like free unlocks of skills from PvP pack since it appears only with skill and equipment tabs, but I already got full unlock so can't verify if it's for unlocking skills. Tazeru 14:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Tazeru seems right, it must be skill/upgrade unlock credits. I think new accounts get a limited number of free PvP unlocks to get you started, this might be it.  I have 3 makeover credits left and this doesn't appear.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But im not playing on a new account, i've played since 2005 ShoganKiller 16:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I had 1,900 blath faction and it wouldnt let me unlock a 3k skill, and i unlocked a 1k skill but the bonus thingy is still there ShoganKiller 16:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, since you used faction, it doesn't rule out the above, and I don't see how you could unlock a 3k skill anyway. There might also be a limited number of skill unlocks and upgrade unlocks and like one elite unlock, and you may have forgotten if you used them up or not.  *shrugs*  But honestly, I have no clue.  Try Linsey.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

(ri) Oh, before you do that, one last crazy thing: try /special and /bonus commands and see if that does anything. RoseOfKali 05:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * well, when i bought the 1k skill, it used 1k faction (obviously) and wouldnt let me unlock another one, so using the "bonus" to unlock skills is off the chopping block. and in the 42 months i have played GW I never saw this little bar thingy until after the 4th anniversary update. /special did naughta, and /bonus brought up the standard items, and the little gold bar is still there... im really getting curious to why this is here, but ill head over and ask linsey ShoganKiller  Shogankillerflag.jpg 01:04, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen coin update
They fixed the bug that prevents you from storing your copper, silver, and gold zaishen coins today. You can now put them in your xunlai chest.
 * Great, now I can keep the faction, gold and coins from the hero battle quest. Drag  nmn   talk cont  21:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like they ended /rolling once and for all, too. Qing Guang 23:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But forgot about /rock/paper/scissors. :P  Lamer option, but still viable.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The /roll seems like a random thing to get rid of...very glad they fixed the zoins bugs.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * /Roll is just so people can't abuse HB wins to do their HB quest today (or to just farm commander points in general).75.92.46.118 23:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What's HB and what does /roll do to it? Also, YES! I've been waiting for this for an age. -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 04:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hero Battles. Whoever rolled a higher number on a 100-sided die got to win and the loser resigned.  This made matches much faster, so you got title points faster.  However, now people use the team color: blue wins, red resigns.  So that update was pointless.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * the fuck? really?-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 16:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Really. It's still considered "match throwing," which is against the rules, but so far they haven't done anything about it, because sooooooo many people do it.  But be aware that they can do something about it, if they so decide, likely a temp suspension.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That would be fucking gay. it's fucking annoying to have to get titles up, being able to do them quicker is much nicer.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fucking annoying when people curse for no reason and want the Easy button for optional things. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hero Battles are boring and awful. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So I hear. Maybe I'll try them when that changes.  So far I've mostly worked on titles I actually enjoyed doing.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hero battles are extremely boring. Most boring part of Guild Wars i say.-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 22:54, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So don't do them. If you don't like them, don't worry about getting the title for them. DKS01 02:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What if we want r3 for our HoM?75.92.46.118 02:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I missed the part where that became something essential. If you want the title, be it to display or for HoM, do the necessary grinding. If you don't wanna get the title, accept that you won't have it in your HoM and move on. DKS01 22:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Pro tip: if you don't /roll, they leave, and you win. Or, used to anyway. The whole reason for /rolling was to save time, so they wouldn't waste time by fighting if you refused to roll.
 * I don't see why they haven't permanently removed /roll. They removed it from outposts because people scammed with it, they removed it from pvp because people cheated with it, so now the only place you can still use it is in explorable areas/missions. And maybe guild halls. Maybe they should make it so only the person /rolling sees the result, that would have fixed all the problems. --Macros 03:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole point of doing a barrel /roll is so that others can see when you get 100 of 100. Cope Land 08:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Red Iris Flowers and bug fix to numbers
I've not seen any increase in the number of flowers. The only change I see is that they are already 'dropped' instead of dropping (with that special sound) as you get near where they would spawn. That is to say, the bug fix mentioned has not seemed to do anything to the number of flowers; they are still a pain to find. GW-Susan 14:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have to disagree, because before the update I often would only find 3 flowers pre zone, if I was lucky. Now I find alot more than 3 per area. this could just be because I see them more often than I used to due to the drop range, but I sdo still think their numbers are increased. Perhaps some research is needed... -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 15:25, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that there's a bug. I've reported it on the official wiki and marked it as a bug on this wiki. (I'm also updating this wiki's iris page with advice for finding them more easily.)


 * MAL: before the update, I could guarantee 5 flowers per run in Lakeside County; post-update (if you'll pardon the pun), it's still 5 flowers (although, as Susan says, much easier to find those 5).  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 15:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess it's just that I've been seeing them easier. If I need them I just farm them outside Ashford Abbey. 1 per run which is 1-2 minutes -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 19:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Before the update, you had to get within aggro distance. Now, you only need to be within compass distance &mdash; much easier to spot them now. Especially in the Village: before the update, you'd have to criss-cross to spot one; now, you can stand in the center to find it.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Went into Northlands solo, which is, for pre-searing, like an elite area (relatively speaking). Only 3 Red Irises -- and yes, goddamn it, I did check thoroughly (spending an extra 10 minutes after clearing all to make sure)! GW-Susan 16:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

May 7th Update
Just noticed you can choose which quest reward to turn in for Zaishen Quests, letting you still get the bonuses for others while you turn in what you want. 75.181.168.70 00:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's nice. Now if only they would do that for every other quest-giver in the game as well...mostly the ones in Factions, anyway. I often want to take a bunch of quests, but I might not want to turn in others I've already completed because I have leftover Luxon/Kurzick faction. :| Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You sure they didn't do it for all quest givers? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 03:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe they did in fact. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * thats a pretty nifty change, why would they not announce that on the update page? [[Image:Shogankillername.jpg|x19px]] 11:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh? The one good thing about this update was not something new (linkie)
 * IIIIIITTTTTT'SSSS BBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They did announce it, only they mention just the zaishen quest guy, not all of them. I have a feeling AFK will be buying lots of Zkeys this month...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hell no. You joking? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

WOHOO! No skill balances/updates again! Anyone else get the felling Anet just is trying to add more busy work instead of making the game play actually better?-- Ikimono Needs more Paragon 23:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The skill update is next week. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * -- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * <Patiently tapping fingers together> get here Thursday...-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 14:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I love how they added a "random" button for predictions... it's like, "We know you don't really care who wins and you just want the cash, so here, we'll let you just smash a button so you can cut out all that tiring thinking!" Qing Guang 18:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The random makeover button is better. I couldn't come up with uglier characters if I tried.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, randomize features tools like that usually have that effect... they can be pretty hilarious. When it initially did that on the login screen, though, I actually got a couple good ones. Hm. Now that I'm thinking about that, I think I'll make a page for them. Qing Guang 20:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure the login screen ones were entirely random. Both of my necros turned out with the same hairstyle and face, and the vast majority of my characters had like the dark chocolaty skin color, which is normally not the case.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Only one of my 9 charas had the same face as before, though a couple retained their skin tone. None had the same hair, and some (ie my mez) had a complete campaign switch (went from Proph to Factions for everything...). I think it inverted the height, too... my tallest characters (namely my monk - max height, as was my derv) became tiny, and my littlest charas (primarily my necro) got huge. Qing Guang 21:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, when I mentioned my necros being the same, I meant the same as each other, not the same as I made them. I did make them to have the same hairstyle and face also.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:10, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hrm, then yeah it probably switched specific things out for other things. My derv was the one who kept her face, which would make sense as there's such a limited face array. Qing Guang 21:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Wtf so they just made the combat quests repeatable? They're just letting people abuse it now lol--Relyk 21:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It makes getting the 15 Gold Zoin pack much quicker, and that's the only reason most people are doing these damn quests. At least initially. Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With the storage "bug" fixed, they were repeatable anyway, it just involved deleting and recreating your PvP character you were doing them with. -- ◄mendel► 04:49, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

tournament points?
So i went onto the website and did that little registration thing, for which it claimed i would get tournament points just for registering...a few days later and still no points on my GW account...-- Ikimono <font color ="Teal">Needs more Paragon 18:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh... you don't register anymore, you use your game login now. I think you get minimum points just for playing each month, even if you get everything wrong.  In any case, wait until next monthly update and check then.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Predictions!
For Tomorrows update? Shall we put a list of what we think gets balanced/utterly nerfed/buffed?
 * Mesmer Ele's get something changed to make them less potent?
 * Lingering Curse gets balanced?
 * Warrior's Endurance gets made into a stance again, no more C+Spacebar=Win?
 * Palm Strikes recharge is made to 6?
 * -- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol... Sorry, no Tournament Reward Points for that, otherwise I'd take a shot. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * nono, just for the fun of it. Like...Healing Hands is a touch range WoH that heals for as much as WoH when it's >50 condition is met. I dunno. Just pre-update fun that's all.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Permasin nerf? (if only.) Fundamental fix to pets/buff to pet skills? (probably wishful thinking, but now that they've implemented the menagerie... or perhaps that's just their final acknowledgement that pets are purely cosmetic and the entire BM line is inferior to other lines) Qing Guang 00:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Pets get their own 4 skill skill bar >.> -- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * After the months of deliberation, ANET nerfs.... Healing Signet! (68.63.217.123 02:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC))
 * But they just buffed it. :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Functionality of Well Spells is being changed. I also heard 600/Smite and permasins might get nerfed. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Permas i can sorta understand (i play perma, i would be sad too.)...but nerfing 600 would be like nerfing 55 monks...it's a core aspect of the game...Interested in this possible well update.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 05:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I was just joking. ^_^ And making wells out of corpses was kind of weird, anyway. Master Architect, here I come with my rank 5 Profane!  Bummer though, I just finally got my sin a radiant/sup shadow armor set... oh well, I guess it'll be just like Ursan, never bothered with it until it was nerfed, but it's needed.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm hearing talk of MoI and SoH being raped, and PnH being made 10 nrg (fair enough for PnH)... 09:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What I really want is pet AI to be fixed. Pleeeeeeez 09:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Pet ai is pretty close to the norm human warrior. C+Spacebar. :P Ikimono  "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you guys please fix your sigs? This page is bleeding with redlinks now.  If you bring a sig image or template from another wiki, you must create the image/template on this wiki also for them to work in your sig here.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes i can and will since you asked.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Why would they nerf Strength of Honor? It's been unchanged since Prophecies, pretty much...I'm aware that it makes scythes (and to a lesser extent, hammers) pretty deadly, but still. Same deal if they give pnh 10 energy... they are not fixing the root cause of the problems, which is scythe's imbaness and wtf strong aoe hex/conditions everywhere respectively. PnH shouldn't even exist - you should never need to purge 50 billion hexes and conditions every 7 seconds...hex/condition stack builds/teams are fine if they can only do it to like 1-2 people at once, or if they can spread a lot of weak things around. But that's not been the case with things like Lingering Curse... :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because with the buff to Warrior's Endurance, Warrior's were getting ultra-mega-supercharged with Strength of Honor + Judges Insignt and were able to spam Power Attack at 100~ damage VS a warrior wielding a hammer's armor. Was very irritating to get rolled from that, with the amount of energy gained, Warriors are able to produce more DPS than a monk can heal against, Protting did very little too because it still costs 10 energy (Spirit Bond) to be able to withstand the constant torrent of Power Attacks and still be able to prot/heal other characters equally.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Shoulda bet on Iki, hes 75% right. 76.188.100.220 23:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE!!!
pretty schweet. some nerfs, yeah, but also a lot of, not necessarily a nerf, but more of a change. will be interesting to see how meta changes One Who Brings Soot 23:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * almost all nerfs, although agies is weird now. shadow form in pvp with no downside? really? 76.188.100.220 23:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did they really buff Word of Healing??? Holy crap... Also, if aegis keeps its old recharge it is utter crap now. This is a strange update... Why did they hurt castig signet? i loved it! at least RoJ and shadow form are not killed, even tho palm strike was left untouched... 98.196.84.105 23:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Such an empty update, they really must have put alot of thought into this one. /sarcasm --72.220.202.201 23:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Word of Healing was nerfed, not buffed. The healing is slightly decreased at all attribute levels. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Serious Question: Did Ele's REALLY need a Buff in PvE? I'm referring to Elemental Lord of course... --ilr(14,May.'09)
 * They didn't need it per se, but Elemental Lord was easily the worst pve-only Luxon/Kurzick skill. This brings it more in line with the power of the other L/K skills. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And for eles who brought aor, but pretty much because it was pretty useless--Relyk 00:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * AoR+EL+Flarespam? OMFG!!! Who needs monks? lol. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This update was kinda watery...-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Finally EL lives up to its name, and I'd like to thank Anet (omg, didn't think i'd ever say that) for making the elementalist more durable. They are skill easy to kill (armor) but this (and the new Aura of Resto) makes them much more durable in longer fights ShoganKiller 02:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * i just wish they'd make RoJ have scatter, is that so much to ask, really? i mainly play my ele and it's very hard for me to get in a farming grp cus even with meteor shower and/or deep freeze i still break aggro too fast and often by the time i've even finished casting MS everything is dead, or nearly so. and IMO eles are good for most parts of NM, but nearly all parts of HM and some parts of NM things have too high armor for my ele to really do anything. RoJ goes straight thru their armor like it wasn't there and my rodgorts invocation does a whopping 70 dmg to caster... -_-. i'm not saying they should reduce Roj or raise the dmg eles spells do, i just think they should bring down elemental deffense of certain mobs in high-end pve. i have absolutley every ele skill in the game on my ele so i go with w/e build ppl want me to and none of them do good dmg in high-end pve.Akbaroth 03:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * For once, I thank the Mighty Overlords as well. My poor Elly's had EL sitting unused in her K tab forever... though come to think of it, what do I ever run her in besides AB? Drat. And it won't help Jenna... but that's my own fault for going all melee. I still wish they'd buff pets though, and maybe tone down the Jesus Beam a little. But that's too much to ask, in their book :P Qing Guang 04:03, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Is there any reason to keep playing Nerf Wars? After the huge delay, I expected more than nerfs & minor, minor buffs from this update. They just keep underperforming & making the game worse & more frustrating in general.... - 420  17:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Iko really nailed it, this was a "watery" update. Thank god TF2 is also being updated next week. --ilr[[Image:Ilr_d-small.png]](15,May.'09)

Why do people do this?
Directed especially at Mr. 76.188.100.220 and half of the rest of the gw population, why do people spell AEGIS -> AGIES? it is a-e-g-i-s not a-g-i-e-s. It freakin pisses me off haha. OCD kickin in...Generalmurgahn 00:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * spelling/=/internetz--Relyk 00:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Be thankful the game doesn't include the Rouge (sic) profession. Alternatively, you could use the skill, Spelling Bee: For 5 seconds, to invoke a skill, target foe must correctly type the skill name or suffer 10...20 damage.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 00:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Lol... There's also Silver Armor, Dwanya, and plenty of others I can't recall right now. ^_^ What bugs me the most, though, is there/theyre/their, youre/your/ure, etc... >_< RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 01:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * WTB Elite Tomb of Spelling! 207.30.169.168 01:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * <Dictionary> memorize it D:> -- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 01:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Tome*. Also, for a long time the Shrine to Dwayna in Gate of Madness was the shrine of Dywana >.>  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 02:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In response to Felix Omni: Word of Healing was most definitely buffed. You lose 5 health from the non-conditional, but you gain 30ish health on the conditional, which is the main use for the skill. Word of Healing was a little bit overpowered before, power creep much? 98.196.84.105 02:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It wasn't overpowered when a warrior could train a monk into the dirt using Warriors Endurance.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 03:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've always been amused by the "loser/looser" people. Especially the ones who like to throw it at other people. Maybe if you wanna call someone a loser, you should learn to spell it first XD DKS01 04:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

nooooo!!What the fudge did they do to hunter's shot??I'm never going to use it again -.- Scorn 07:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, yeah, that skill musta pissed someone off big time. Bonus damage removed, fast activation removed, recharge increased. Fine work Anet, no changes to PS, RoJ, Shadow Form, etc but hey, we sure beat the hell out of Hunter's Shot, so let's call it a day. DKS01 08:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * In response to Felix Omni: Word of Healing was most definitely buffed. 98.196.84.105 Uh. At 14 healing prayers, before the change the unconditional heal was 122 and the conditional was 94, now the unconditional is 94 and the conditional is 109, how is making the heal smaller a buff?  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 17:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I bet it's just a misunderstanding caused by scaling format. The official update notes use 1...15, we use 1...12. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Now, this is obviously a joke, but it'd be pretty funny if in addition to the hero's handbook, and golem manual they put in a dictionary too lmfao ShoganKiller 20:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Thoughts
That's pretty much it... <font color="Green">Lยкץ๒๏ץ <font color="Blue">talk  10:08, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sin: I don't really see what they changed on Heart of Shadow and Viper's Defense. Aftercast on Fang keeps it in line with the other shadowstep nerfs, fair enough
 * Ele: This looks like Anet's way of saying: "Mesmers, please go back to Energy Surge"
 * Mes: IW buff w00t! Could Warriors maintain it now? -.- Fragility buff w00t! So now Dreamroot Mandragor are even more annoying!
 * Monk: Did WoH get buffed or nerfed im confused. PnH nerf looks ok, dont know how this will affect it. Castigation Signet recharge is now the same as the other signets. SoH got killed in PvP yet buffed in PvE, making perma dagger sins viable again? Aegis is ehm... interesting....kinda like Ether Prism now...
 * Necro: I think FF is still stapled to necro bars. So is LC...
 * Ranger: R.I.P. Hunter's Shot. Mel's shot didnt change much, just make sure your target is moving, which also is what you wanted pre-nerf. Keen Arrow's damage still looks big :S
 * Rit: less PwK spam?
 * War: WE is as useless as it was before it got buffed, in PvP only. It probably was for the best.
 * PvE: Elemental Lord buff looks nice, anyone who had AoR on their bar should probably change it with this. Low Blow looks cool now, specially with Brawling Headbutt. Tryptophan Signet is more like Faintheartedness now, still quite useless imo. Summon Spirits buff so you can actually take your spirits with you and keep a reasonable walking speed?
 * Gunther: Would that trigger Death Nova? Also, why "buff" the Kurz even more in a setting where they have a clear advantage? Just because a few people think its fun to get a minion army next to him and suicide? How on earth does that tactic even work, he has 2 monks next to him for crying out loud!
 * Ai Tei: I always wondered why there was a Rune Trader yet no merchant in the temple. Probably gonna use her to dump loot from the zquests
 * Pets: Black Moa's grow? how? they're lvl 20 when you cap em?
 * Dishonor: Ow please just remove that system... The idea was good, but it didnt work out...


 * People would suicide next to the Gate Keeper Radik and the other dude, killing them permanently, and then go after Gunther. It really doesn't do anything to harm Luxon players. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 10:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You can get lv5-10-15 pets in the Zoo. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  11:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pissed. Still didn't do anything about MB Distortion eles.  Any build that can utilize 75% block 4/5 of a game needs a nerf, especially in RA. 68.112.253.41 13:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * i beleive they put those changes in viper's and hos to help prevent accidentally jupping deeper into the enemy grp when ur dying.Akbaroth 17:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ^ It was very hazards to use those before.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 17:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just had a wierd thought...ANet is just like the American government! They gave us something great and manage somehow to give us a bunch of crap. The middle class average failrly intelligent american citizen can fairly easily figure out ways of getting us out of the recession we're in, see ways to fix the good ol' big-3 auto makers, and generally see that Obama's little "insentive" checks are gonna go straight to Japan (mine did, yay Disgaea 3!) the general public is seeing the problems and proposing valid ways of solving (or at least mitigating) our problems. We, as a GuildWiki community and GW community in general, are really good at seeing what skills are problematic, and good at proposing effective ways of fixing problems while leaving good things in place (oh damn, I just remembered that whole spirit-spam/Soul Reaping nerf fiasco [which my necro still feels the effects of today even though the problem was fixed long ago]). Anyway, the community seems to see the problem, and propose good ways of fixing it. In both cases, the American gov't and ANet, we all scream "WHY CAN'T YOU SEE?!!?!??!?!?" and proceed to cry bitterly. (how long have 2-PSsin frontlines been plaguing HA?) It really is saddening, and reducing my overall hopefullness about GW2. Happy to see a community-made suggestion to WoH though! *glimmer of hope*. Really, interesting parallel don't you think? Shadowshear 04:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. &mdash; Powersurge360  15:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

i suppose it was only a matter of time before someone took a less than hoped for update and infused modern politics into it. good job sir/maam. Funkopotomis 14:44, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * US Economy-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 00:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

back2
any more the eviscerate executioners strike spike dont work very well and shock is a costly interrupt skill. Ups, there goes viability for axes. &mdash; Warw/Wick 18:14, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Shockaxe has always been viable. Also, the other day I fought against a pro prage axe. eh had a bonder and totally owned us. he soloed our pro devhammer like five times - while maintaining prage. -_- Also, some people swear by Whirling Axe. Also, Zealous Vow. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 18:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I want Izzy back
I never thought the day'd come where I say these words, but it's arrived...... I WANT IZZY BACK. Since the announcement of Guild Wars 2 this game went more and more down with every update, whoever the new skill balancers are, they SUCK ASS (yes). They don't have any sense of balance whatsoever, they buff skills up to 7th heaven, and shortly afterward send it to hell, making them worse than in Prophecies days. I want Isaiah back (even though he can be a moron at times) and Gaile Grey and classical Warrior Droknar rushes, 55ing, and EVERYTHING THAT MADE THIS GAME GOOD. /sigh...nostalgia and mourning over a dead game /<points at Read the Wind and Hunter's Shot>
 * Those were finally balanced to a degree. rangers already have lol-utility, they didnt need to have fucktons of dps.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 14:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But yea...having 1 viable bar and that's it is getting annoying.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 14:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * GWW's User talk:Isaiah Cartwright#I want you back. I quote, "lol. You've had him all this time. - Linsey talk 21:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)"  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 15:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I was gonna say that. Well, I'll just repeat ^. You've had him all along. Izzy never left. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually hope he just sticks around and dies off with GW instead of bringing GW2 down with him like he did in GW --Gimmethegepgun 16:46, 22 May 2009 (UTC)\
 * I'll second that. DKS01 05:24, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, saying a class shouldn't be able to do anything else because they have "lol-utility" is one of the most fucking stupid things ever posted on this Wiki, and that's saying a lot. A class SHOULD NOT BE LIMITED to just a utility role, period. DKS01 02:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You missed the point, which was that rangers did wtfdamage while maintaining high utility. And please lose the attitude. --  Shadowcrest  03:27, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He specifically stated rangers don't need damage because they have utility. So no, that point seems pretty clear-you have utility, you don't get damage. Believe it or not, some ranger players would like to be able to deal damage, and not just be a utility class. As for losing the attitude, I'll lose my attitude when other people lose their moronic "zomgwtf class doing more than one role?!? nerf then kthx!!!" attitude. DKS01 05:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, then he just grew demented over time, there's no hope left (anyways). Regarding rangers: Turret rangers didn't have much utility whatsoever, the problem with rangers comes down to 1 skill mainly: D-Shot, which is unlimitedly overpowered even if it was elite. Its sole existencial justification was in the fact that in prophecies rangers had about nothing else (save OTHEr interrupts..). Revert all ridiculous nerfs to Rangers and finally balance DShot, and that's coming from someone who only played Ranger infrequently
 * At DKS01, maybe you haven't seen recent ranger builds? Burning Arrow, Mels/Hunter's shot? Did you read the dev notes on the Hunter's nerf? Rangers have been able to deal high damage while spreading poison/interrupting, sometimes with a single skill. And that's why rangers have had their damage reduced. A class being able to play more than one role isn't a problem, but when they can do two roles at once (see Smiter's Boon (PvP)- why do you think it was nerfed), it's overpowered. -- Shadowcrest  13:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then remove the BLEEDING from Hunter's Shot, and let rangers that wanna do damage CONTINUE TO DO DAMAGE. You still don't seem to grasp that they're not making rangers "balanced" by making them unable to do damage and pressure at the same time, they're making them straight up unable to do anything but pressure, because they're continuing to remove our ability to deal actual damage unless we do something like become wannabe dervishes. As the anon above said, the actual pure damage ranger builds never WERE heavy on utility, yet anet continues to nerf them because, well, they've not been real clear why, other than that they don't seem to think rangers should be anything but condi/interrupt whores. DKS01 19:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's all part of ANet's plan to make GW PvP more accessible to the casual gamer: "He's a ranger, he must be playing the condi/interrupt role". :) -- ◄mendel► 20:21, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What shadow is trying to say is that a prof can run different strategies at about equal level to one another, but if they double dip into multiple roles, the overall effectiveness should be reduced.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 16:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So basically if say a class can heal and prot both equally well, nerf them? Or if say a class can both spike and pressure nerf them? That is a good idea. Lets start with monks and necros. In fact, lets just start with the whole hex and prot system entirely. Nerf every hex and ever prot in the game then we can talk balance. Until then the whole idea of balance is so horribly screwed that nothing you can come up with is going to balance anything. This all started with the concept of "oh, hexway looks like it could use a boost" then "wow, hexway is op, instead of nerfing hexway lets nerf hexway and give a great big boost to prot". The system of making something more powerful then nerfing it into the ground while boosting whatever was meant to counter it has not only bred power creep, it has ruined any idea of balance. That is things like pimpslap are balanced. They are just as balanced as the other skills that are loloverpowered in GW. You have a set of skills that are just stupidly broken, and for some unknown reason those skills are now set as the balancing point. You nerf down hex protection, fine, but wait no that isn't enough you have to give a nice boost to hexing. Yeah because in that broken down messed up logic it isn't enough to try and balance you have to turn around and swing it the other way. Yes this is a rant, because of people like the above. Take for example the argument against Dshot. It is ONE skill, you mean to tell me that One skill is what makes a ranger so powerful. I have news for you man, it isn't. It is the messed up other skills that dshot has to exist for. In your logic, dshot should be nerfed, well consider for just a brief moment what that skill is around for. Now consider that skill getting nerfed, all of the sudden you have tons of other problems. Let me try and put it this way. If you have a ranger on your team in pvp what do you want him to disrupt the most? A monk? maybe a mes, or necro? You probably don't give a damn if he is firing off at the warrior running around probably blind. Instead of going "oh well Dshot is horrible" ask instead why you don't want dshot. Then you are probably starting to get to the root of the problem. It is similar for SF farming. Why is SF farming so popular, well probably because power creep has made pve just as broken as pvp. In some areas its just stupidly easy, and in some its stupidly hard. Wait we realized we have created creatures that are almost impossible to beat, and now we have some players that just suck so bad at pve, we are going to introduce random pve only skills. Oh yeah, but while they are around, we might as well balance regular skills against them. What kind of moronic logic is that? I don't care if this rant offends anyone or not. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 23:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm using D-Shot on "Wall Of Text"-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 05:01, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I read that in the voice of a Vietnam veteran in my head. I don't care if that offends anyone or not. &mdash; Powersurge360  07:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * D-Shot is imbalanced because it doesn't interrupt shit, it also disables them for unlinked-huge-amount-of-20-seconds, instead of 0-10 seconds linked to Expertise. gg WallofText. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.158.91.82 (contribs).
 * What I meant was at the same time, with the same bar. It's fine if a class can prot and heal, if they either have to overhaul their bar, or take a serious skill point redistribution and replace a few skills.  However one bar should not be able to shut down, damage, and provide powerful self preservation, at a level equal to a bar dedicated to one of these things, neglecting the others.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  17:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm staying out of this one other than to say: You want Izzy back? ARE YOU HIGH?? --ilr(24,May.'09)
 * Izzy didn't go anywhere. I agree with you GIgathrash. You probably didn't get the point of what I was saying. I see nothing wrong with a class being able to do 2 things moderately well, or one thing great. The problem comes in when one class like you said can do tons of things equally. I actually think the changes to ranger are pretty fair. I play a ranger often, so screw it. To me they were fair, but some of the changes going on in the name of "balance" are just stupid. To the person who can't even remember to sign a comment, guess how much your opinion matters. Dshot is not nearly as unbalanced as most of the other crap that is called "balanced". Is it perfect, hell no, but it is way down the list of broken stupidly overpowered skills in the game. If you can't see that, no reason to continue this because your opinion doesn't mean crap anyway. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 22:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, there opinion matters just as much as yours. GW:YAV--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  22:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If it's Tenetke's opinion that their opinions don't mean crap, then he is entitled to hold and speak that view. It's not violating YAV, sort of, quite. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Although it could be intterpted as very rude, and I think he should have been wiser. This looks a lot like the Auron-Tenetke thing, that caused so much drama... Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 06:57, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unlike this one, the post that Auron got blocked for didn't have any actual argument, although I agree that this would have been better as "doesn't mean crap to me anyway". Any further argument should be directed to a user talkpage, e.g. mine. -- ◄mendel► 09:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * At least he has a sense of humour, unlike a certain community rep... Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 07:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that was a bit rude. I should have put doesn't mean crap to me. Because his opinion is just as valid. Just not to me. So I admit I was rude, and I don't like being rude. I won't apologize that person though. To the rest of you for causing the above I will. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 05:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just want more functionaility changes. They make things interesting again. (Kiron 15:16, 30 May 2009 (UTC))
 * Ditto. I value novelty over balance. I don't want to do the same thing over and over again, I want an interesting game. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:21, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, you say seconded, so what is it with 3, thirded?--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 15:35, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Felix, that wasnt sarcasm, was it? That would be so sad. :( (Kiron 01:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC))


 * I don't think it was. Mine wasn't anyway. Balance is screwed in this game no matter what they do. People will always find overpowered combos, even if all the skills have been nerfed to hell.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 05:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I mean, its not like the game has ever been totally balanced, and its not like they cant fix whatever they screw up if it gets more unbalanced, so yeah, i would rather have a shifting and chaotic metagame with a few core builds staying strong and not getting changed while others are constantly changing... like, your basic cripslash or shock axe build should probably get untouched, but all those crappy skills like whirling axe and stuff should be up for grabs. i mean, how hard is it to change a skill? lets change up some skills, anet! (Kiron 16:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC))


 * Only as hard as making a boss/mob that kicks your poor vanquishing ass so hard you can't sit for 3 days. Now let's see if that comes out as good as it sounded in my head...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:57, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Lost* (Kiron 01:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC))
 * PvE monsters use the same skills, so when you change them (for better or worse) you change how every monster that has that skill plays. Even a slight buff can, on a level 28 Hardmode boss (from one of the double damage continents), be disastrously strong. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  07:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And henchmen need to be considered too. Mhenlo got an update when Light of Deliverance took a nerf, but some other henchmen still suffer from skill changes.  I still think Redemptor Karl needs a bar rework after the change to Life Sheath.  Shadowlance 14:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ray of Judgment is a fine example of how it shouldn't be. It doesn't cause scatter; awesome. Until your H/H party is wiped by Fleshreavers, because RoJ doesn't cause scatter. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. pvp only changes? (Kiron 17:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC))


 * ROFL? Fleshreavers? Try wiping from a pair of afflicted monks in Undercity because you didn't notice that your H/H were frying with a sizzle while you were busy spiking that ritualist with his annoying fomf. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

still waiting
...for a reasonable skill balance. roj, ws, ps, cough(Kiron 01:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC))

dont hold your breath on ws... Funkopotomis 02:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ws isnt so bad. they just need to update JQ ai so they scatter on roj, its majorly imba when a monk can do with one skill what it takes an entire ele bar specifically designed for that shrine to do the same (Kiron 05:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC))