Talk:Weapon

I'm asking everybody to review the "What weapon to use for your profession" table. I've never seen a complete list which weapons/item is linked to which attribute before, neither in the manual or on an official site, nor on any other fansite. The table is written from my own experience and off course I may be wrong. Has anybody ever seen a Weapon linked to Inspiration Magic? Or a Wicked Staff linked to Blood Magic? --Tetris L 04:53, 25 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * It seems right. You can't have, say, an inspiration weapon.  My observation has been that the PvP weapons cover the possibilities.  --Fyren 07:43, 25 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * There are always the "universal" staffs like Raven Staff, Ghostly Staff and Shadow Staff. Those come with requirements for all kinds of spellcasting attributes, not sure whether that includes Inspiration, though. But I don't think we should include those into this table, it would become rather crowded. Better add a paragraph at the bottom or somewhere, mentioning them. Another thing I noticed: I belive the Deadly Cesta is a Necro's right-hand weapon (and not a focus). Not sure which attributes are linked to it, though. --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 07:57, 25 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I had planned to add the "universal" staffs later. But AFAIK they follow the rules too that certain attributes can not be linked to weapons. Oh, and you're right about the Deadly Cesta. It's a necro wand (image) linked to Blood Magic. --Tetris L 08:07, 25 Aug 2005 (EST)

What term "Arc size" regarding ranged weapons means?

Definition of Weapon
Considering "Weapon Crafter" and "Weapon Slots", I would consider Shields and Focus Items to be weapons too. The "Weapon Type (Details)" section seems to also treat them as weapon.

On the other hand, "You must equip a weapon in order to attack" does not count Shields and Focus Items.

I believe there is a Broad definition and a Narrow definition of Weapon, and the article should address that in the first secton. Comments? -PanSola 12:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Solved my own problem, see online manual -PanSola 21:25, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Ch2 weapon drops
If anyone actually have a dagger dropped in Ch1, can you test out the attack speed? I haven't seen any ch2 stuff drop yet. -PanSola 19:01, 16 February 2006 (CST)

Does the Ogre Slaying Knife count? :D --Gares Redstorm 11:44, 17 February 2006 (CST)


 * I believe the knife is currently counted as a sword, not knife. If you have one, equipe the knife on a warrior and see if you can use sword skills, axe skills, both, or neither. -PanSola 11:50, 17 February 2006 (CST)

I have confirmed that the Ogre-Slaying Knife is a sword, but have not checked with dagger--User:Benjii


 * I've heard (no personal confirmation) that you can get some Ch2 weapon drops in Pre-Searing. You might try that and see if you can get any there.  --Rainith 11:54, 17 February 2006 (CST)


 * I thought they patched that when they patched the bug allowing you to get items into pre-searing. LordKestrel 14:02, 17 February 2006 (CST)


 * They might have (if so it went unreported), like I said, I've had no personal experience with it, just read about it on boards. --Rainith 14:05, 17 February 2006 (CST)


 * My bro has an eerie rod, it's just a cane though. I'll check the damage type later 14:26, 17 February 2006 (CST)


 * I just got a Eerie Staff after that update and it deals Lightning damage. I sold it to the merchant, unfortunately, and left pre so I have no proof. | Chuiu 05:55, 23 February 2006 (CST)


 * The only ones I have seen are Eerie Rod, Eerie Focus, Glowing Rod, Glowing Focus, Eerie Staff, and Glowing Staff. I have yet to see any Assassin weapons yet. --Gares Redstorm 04:26, 24 February 2006 (CST)


 * I have daggers on all starting characters now, if attack speed needs to be tested. I read that it was 1.33, and 1.00 at 16 Dagger Mastery. -Avery 23:16, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

Template: Item energy entry
Can't seem to get this one to work right. I've noticed some other articles try to use this template and, although the code is there, nothing shows up on the page. Any thoughts? Basing my code on this template: Template:Item_energy_entry --Gares Redstorm 06:35, 23 February 2006 (CST)

Collector-only weapon types
Should there be some kind of indication like italic text or an asterisk on weapon and focus types that are only available in PvE as collector items? Specifically, Diessa Icons, reaping req Grim Cestas, fast cast req Inscribed Chakrams, storage req Scrolls and possibly Cruel Staves. -- Gordon Ecker 16:40, 25 February 2006 (CST)
 * Also, I strongly suspect that curse and death req Truncheons and blood req Deadly Cestas are collector only available from collectors. So anyway, what do you guys think of marking collector-only weapons? -- Gordon Ecker 17:57, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * Anyway, I'm going to asterisk the collector-only weapon types next Friday if no one objects. -- Gordon Ecker 16:32, 5 March 2006 (CST)
 * I decided (C) is better. -- Gordon Ecker 14:39, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Common vs Rare
Can we put some kind of indication for which swords, axes, hammers and shields are common and which are rare? The style and formatting policy says that only uncommon items should be listed in a monster's drops section, but there's currently no way of checking which swords, axes, hammers and shields are common and which are rare. I'm compiling a quite extensive list of which specise drop specific weapons and shields, and which regions those weapons and shields drop in. However the list is rather extensive, and I'm not sure if I should post it in the varios warrior weapon type talk pages. We also need some kind of criteria for 'common' and 'rare', right now I think a reasonable criteria for 'common' is 'dropped by more species in more regions than a fiery dragon sword' (excluding titan quests and counting divine realms and the tomb ruins as a single region), since fiery dragon swords are probably the best known and most common rare weapon type, dropping pretty much everywhere from the Crystal Desert onwards. I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place to put this, but I didn't want to spam all four warrior weapon type talk pages with essentially the same message. -- Gordon Ecker 10:23, 14 March 2006 (CST)


 * I think you should let the data speak for itself. i.e. Just compile the data for certain weapons. Ones you feel are common and ones that are uncommon, then share this data and let us examine exactly how they drop. I find FDS (Fiery Dragon Swords) to be pretty common. Every joe is running around with one and wher eI play most (the realms) they drop like rice. I would definie rare as dropping from one species (i.e. Mursaat skin Horn Bows) or in one area (i.e. Chaos Axes, Etenral Bows, ...). --Karlos 10:33, 14 March 2006 (CST)


 * A definition that's too narrow would leave out extremely rare weapons like the Twin Hammer (which I've confirmed to drop in the Fissure, Tomb Ruins and Sorrow's Furnace). I don't really consider fiery dragon swords to be rare, but I don't exactly consider them common either, since they don't drop at all before the desert, and are only really common in Tomb Ruins, Sorrow's Furnace and the Divine Realms. Anyway, the drop rules in the style and formatting guidelines just says no generic items, so I guess the question isn't so much "what's rare" as "what isn't common". A "monsters that drop this item" section might be a good idea for various weapon and shield pages. -- Gordon Ecker 07:32, 17 March 2006 (CST)


 * On second thought, agreeing on definitions of common and rare and then testing everything based on those standards sounds like an insane amount of work. The (what drops it section), which no one seems to use right now, would be a lot simpler. -- Gordon Ecker 04:20, 2 May 2006 (CDT)


 * I was guessing the same, a index of rare weapons should be a nice and useful page; but the amount of work to do and mantain it is awesome. Anyway, can be a good proposal for future wiki-work. --Crigore 09:21, 2 March 2007 (CST)

Low req vs high req
[this guy] claims that there is a difference in damage between low req and high req, even if your WeaponMastery itself is higher then both. can anyone confirm or contradict this? Foo 16:27, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Considering the weapon mastery req is tested numerous times without ppl using weapons of the same req, I highly believe the guy is mistaken. There IS a different between the testing character's level, which could be a factor.  See Damage to see how character level affects DL of weapons. -PanSola 16:54, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Edit: Now that I have clicked on the link, I think that guy is just trying to trick ppl into paying lots for the money. -PanSola 16:56, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

Linked Attribute
Thank you for using it without telling me :p But that's not my main concern. It was actually an incomplete version, albeit one that is for the most part fully functional. There are a couple of facts in that section that is missing that I'm not sure are worthy of inclusion, or even if they work like I hypothesize. Since both of these only affect nonmax weapons, it doesn't affect or interest many players. It might be worth it to study all this and make an article on the basic facts of weapon damage ranges, since it does have enough intriguing characteristics to warrant its own place. But I do have more important things to test than this. -Savio 21:48, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
 * 1) There are a few nonmax weapons with +1 to their base damage. You don't see or notice this +1 normally, except when you come across such oddities as 7-20 axes. The "half of the current stat" was pulled from this Guru thread and my own tests which showed a rare axe outperforming Tanzit's Cleaver by several points of damage. Factor in the penalty for using weapons at 0 rank and it gave pretty close numbers to half the damage range for the rare and some really low numbers for the Cleaver. What I really need to do is go back and get the stats for starter weapons and compare them, since right now I have nothing to go by for starter values except for that they're really, really low.
 * 2) There are occasionally some low-stat weapons that have requirements but, when halved, yield lower than (presumed) starter weapon stats. They either drop in Pre- or Post-Sear Ascalon. A problem with testing these weapons is the fact that since they yield such low, rounded numbers, I can't find a way to pull any accurate information out of them. It might require a PvP test with naked characters to get anything more than a 3 from one of these weapons.
 * Um, so should I revert? I just took stuff from your user page, and assumed you did comprehensive research on it. It probably helps if the exact processes and numbers of the tests you ran were posted in one of the talk-pages, so we know what are conjectures and which parts are incomplete. -PanSola 22:06, 22 April 2006 (CDT) Please note that all contributions to GuildWiki are considered to be released under the Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (see Project:Copyrights for details).  If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.


 * Uh, is that tiny text necessary?
 * ...Anyhow, the data regarding half the normal range for dropped items is correct. However, the statement that weapons drop to starter weapon range is an untested assumption on my part, and it doesn't even make any sense if the values for starter weapons aren't posted.
 * I consider most if not all of my damage article to be conjecture for right now, since we still have to iron out the whole damage type/source conflict. Most of my tests I don't keep permanent logs of, just confirmation of whether or not a phenomenon is true. This is probably due to the fact that I just type, copy, and paste numbers into a Notepad window I keep open at all times, which isn't the best for keeping records. I prefer having easy to repeat, "anyone can do them" tests for phenomena rather than comprehensive records of the tests I do. I'll post some (moderately cheap for PvE players) tests for some things later. -Savio 22:41, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Re: Tiny text. It was directed at that which was not your main concern.  Because it's a response to a non-main concern, I made it tiny.
 * Re: Preference. I also have a preference for easy to repeat, "anyone can do them" tests, but also having records (even just one or two example records instead of full comprehensive records) would be much better. It just gives others concrete numbers to look at.  Sometimes I trust the integrety of the raw data but have qualms about the math or the method of intepreting the statical data, so it'd save me the trouble of collecting raw data (especially if none of my characters can be easily configured into a build to collect the data.  It sucked having to pay 1 plat just so my monk can learn Flurry for a certain test). -PanSola 23:02, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Re: assumption of starter weapon range. For the ones you assumed dropping to starter weapon range, does that imply you have at least confirmed those weapons (non-drop weapons) don't lower to half their regular range? -PanSola 23:07, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

The results of not meeting the requirement disagree here (half damage) and on the Requirement article (-1dmg per point short of req). Which is correct? This needs to be fixed.--Carmine 21:27, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * [[Image:req9-Scythe-wild-blow.jpg|right|thumbnail|a req 9 scythe with 8 weapon and no strenght]]neither. weapons have hidden damage levels for when you do not meet the requirements. use req 8 on a req 9 scythe with wild blow and you'll see it. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 21:31, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * spoke too soon. that 15 does go down to 14 at 7, 13 at 6... all the way down to 7 at 0, which is odd, because if the range was changing, we'd expect to see some kind of jump as the 20% bonus from a critical strike crossed the critical boundry. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 21:41, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Table Nitpick
Why is "refire rate" used instead of "attack interval" for ranged weapons? Firstly, having a standard is good, secondly, refire, while "okay", doesn't fit staves too well. Attack with a staff, all right, attack is a very genric term, but is channeling energy through a staff and sending a stream of spark or flame to the enemy really "firing"? I guess it's okay, but I would prefer standardizing and just using Attack Invertval. --Silk Weaker 04:26, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Unique Skins
How much work would it be to add what skin a unique weapon has to their articles? Also, the unique weapons with the same skin to the normal weapon articles. I would like that alot. Thoughts?--Coloneh  11:42, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

=Weapon modifiers= Many weapon pages say something to the extent that weapons have non-salvageable damage upgrades...i.e. 15^50. This is no longer true to a certain extent. Perhaps someone could update pages to reflect this change?

Daggers
As I stated on Talk:Critical hit, my testing leads me to believe that daggers have a much higher percent chance of a critical hit than other weapons. To be specific, I've tested swords, daggers, axes, and staves all on the same assassin with 12 in the weapon mastery attribute, 3 critical strikes, and no armor (runes/insignias/AL might interfere with the results, since it's a female sin :3) on the AL 60 targets on Isle of the Nameless. Daggers seem to have done a huge number of crits. Can anyone go and test this, as I don't count crits in the data I jot down? Would be interesting if daggers had an inherent +10~15% chance to crit... Another idea would be that one has a higher percent crit chance with weapons of one's primary profession. Armond 16:54, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Switching weapons
I've discovered something very interesting about using a bow: if you switch to another weapon while the arrow is still airborne, the arrow will occassionally exhibit the mods of the new weapon. For example, if I switch to a vampric scythe, my unmodded longbow's arrows will sometimes deal +5 lifestealing. They've also been known to make scythe-slashing sounds instead of arrow-piercing ones. --Bonjela 20:37, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

New Weapons
Don't someone think that there sould have some new weapons, like two-handed swords, two-handed axes and one-handed hammers? Like for caster classes, there is two-handed weapons (Staves) and one-handed ones (Wands). I think that it could be original. You say : "But two-handed weapons wont do much damage (15-22 for 2-h sword)." I think that the max damage could be higher for two-handed weapons; 17-31 for 2-h swords, by example, and lower for one-handed weapons, like 12-25 for 1-h hammers and less knockdown. Don't you think like me? Kidbang 21:05, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

DPS
I think that a DPS section comparing all weapons would be a very useful inclusion here. For simplicity's sake it could be composed of the average DPS for each weapon against 60 armor with the weapon attribute at 12 and/or 16 with critical hit chances estimated at 17% and 22.5% respectively as outlined in the Critical hit article. RebirthofDragon 09:39, 16 July 2007 (CDT)