User talk:Jagre/archive 2

Deep Breaths
although defiant elements is supported in creating a section about me apparently different users are held to different rules. <3 brien.

although i somewhat regret giving many users the satisfaction of seeing me go, i no longer feel safe here, and will no longer be visiting the wiki page.

thanks for teaching me how to better deal with double sided rules and discrimination. may your tower of babylon stand tall until it falls on April 21st - the scheduled day of the builds wipe.
 * the lamp is not this way --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 23:33, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * fyi: jagre and i talked in game, and i think he's got a hand on some lamp-type-thing. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:08, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Good. Hopefully he'll come back in a week and use it to everyone's benefit. :) &mdash;Tanaric 00:33, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Confessions
i was proud of my build, and got defensive when they were attacked unfairly.

i did not know that some people were allowed to act disrespectfully and others weren't allowed to act rude in response.

although i've apologized before, i would like to again, even though nobody seems to do it, so, i guess i am the only one doing anything wrong here.

Questions

 * What is going to happen after the "build wipe" will the builds link still be in the main page? how will new builds be added, or will that be impossible after that?

as far as I know, you cannot create another tab. As to the build wipe, the best way to learn more is to become proactive. I would suggest reading through the talk pages for NOB and PNB. Hopefully that will answer your question and will also get you more informed and involved with the question of policy than any simple answer I could give you. Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs) 23:36, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Is there a way to make a new tab on my user page, like say "builds" (next to user page and discussion) or anything?


 * Is there any way we could delete/move/archive the discussion page of the Jaguar Sword build?
 * For reasons that the discussion page is ugly as all hell and the build has changed to reflect the constructive criticism in the discussion pages (IE now has 590 health, 47 energy (has not changed) and 5 soul reaping to give some more energy management purposes).
 * Please, someone? If not I would just as soon move it to the stubs section just to avoid the discussion page being seen by any new people.  Jagre 23:43, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Ok, here is how to archive a talk page. However, as a disclaimer, archiving/moving/deleting a talk page will not undo the fact that the build is unfavored, nothing short of three more favored than unfavored votes or a major skill change can change the fact that your build is unfavored. However, since the discussion page is kind of messed up, here is what you do. You create a new link called build talk:N/W Jaguar Sword, melee-mancer anti/Archive 1. Than you paste all of the current discussion page into that link, delete what is currently on the page, and then add the archive link at the top of the discussion page. For an example of this, look at my user talk page and see how I archived old versions of it. Hope that helps. By the way, I removed your comment about Jinkas' comment on my user talk page, as you said on my poll, think of it as karma :). Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs) 23:47, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * How do I make a new link called build talk:N/W Jaguar Sword, melee-mancer anti/Archive 1 ?


 * Note: I saw that you renamed the build. Not a problem, that happens all the time.  But it's usually better to do it by moving pages by using the "Move" tag at the top of the page.  The difference is that by copy-and-pasting the contents (as was suggested to you above), the new article only shows one edit - while by using the "Move" button, the edit history also gets moved to the new name.  Because of the wiki's licence, it's usually best to keep the edit history.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:28, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Standards
Since my build was voted unfavored, should I now hold all other builds to that same standard? That they must be better than mine to get a vote of favored from me? Jagre 06:00, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, your build was horrible, so therefore, you should hold builds to a much much higher standard than yours. --Theonemephisto 16:22, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * that would force me to vote even more than half of the builds in "tested" as unfavored. Jagre 21:37, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, when you vote on a melee-mancer build, you can use Jaguar Sword as kind of a standard (and unfavor that too, unless its significantly better than Jaguar). When voting on an Ele spiker, Prot Monk, Assassin Runner, Necro Minion Master or any other build, Jaguar has nothing to do with them, and should not be used as a standard. If I post my very original W/any Dolyak Signet Flag Runner build one day (which IS MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE THAN CURRENT FLAG RUNNERS, although a bit slower, but people just need to be open mindend and learn to play it properly ;) ) you should compare that to existing flag runners, and make your intelligent decision. --Deadly Lollipop 07:57, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Build:E/Mo Hydro Support Caster Build:E/Mo Pyro Support Caster Build:W/A Death's Charge Hammer Spiker Build:W/N Bull's Charge Sword Build:W/any Fierce Hammer

My contributions to the guildwiki builds site. I did not make any of these up however, and I think that the wiki's job is more to document metagame builds than to try and use made-up ones. Along with that, I am one of the first starters of the very PvP organization that you see, as it use to be that all the PvP builds were randomly thrown together in one mess of a page. --Theonemephisto 16:19, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

'Sup.
Hey. I know you're still learning your way around the Wiki and the like, but I can tell you from experience, you're going about it the wrong way. Typing entire sentences in caps and shouting at/insulting random other contributors not only shows you in poor light, but it gets you incredibly close to being tempblocked for being a disruption on the wiki. If you want to help improve an article or if you want help improving a build, try being friendly to the other contributors; responding nicely to them (even if they were rude etc) will make you look refined and calm, and will make them look like assholes. As it stands now, you're just fueling the fire. From one user to another... take a break from the Wiki. Usually, the first time you do this is from behind the wrong end of a block; all that does is make you sour and builds negative emotions. But, if you take yourself away and calm down (and re-think your approach to dealing with others), you will come back without any of that (and you won't have a ban on your record, like I do on mine). It took me a few tries to learn how to play nice, even while frustrated to death with people, and I implore you to start learning before you get banned. (This is in no way an official warning, as I am not an official) -Auron  04:10, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Aurons post may not have been an official warning, but this is. Please do not use caps, yell at others or accuse them of breaking GW:YAV, GW:NPA and other policies when they haven't, change headings and attack other in their guest books. If I see you acting like this later today or within the next few days I will ban you for a short period so you can cool off. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:53, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

[[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings"
if you want to can you sign my guest book on my talk page? -- "Wings" 07:46, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * lol think ur the first person to take a litural meaning to sign here, by signing in the brakets lol very much appericated. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 07:52, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * yeah LOL. How do i make it look all cool and stuff? -Jagre

make what cool? -- "Wings" 09:11, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Links in a wiki
Reply to How do I make a new link called build talk:N/W Jaguar Sword, melee-mancer anti/Archive 1 ?
 * Easy just make a red link build_talk:N/W Jaguar Sword, melee-mancer anti/Archive 1 then click on it and say create page, hope that answers if not ask agian lol. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 07:55, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * thanks man! -Jagre 07:57, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * all you ever need to do is make a red-link then make that page then is made and no longer red lol. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 07:59, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * lol, how do you make a red link? this is my first ever experience with HTML :p i'ma noob :p - Jagre 08:05, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just make a link. If the destination doesn't exist, the link is red. If the destination exists, the link is blue. Simple. See Editing guide for more help. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 08:09, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * just type This is a Red Link Lol, Not Real Hehe, its just everything you see there do [ brakets then the link you want it then 2 more ] brakets to finish it off. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 08:08, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Just remember that all red links are considered to be "wanted pages", that is, the wiki software assumes that someone is requesting a real page at that location (eve if the red link is actually a mistake or an example or anything else). So the wiki lists all of them at Special:Wantedpages. Because of that, you don't really want to leave a bunch of red links lying about. =) — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 09:28, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Hurricane Build
Hey, I got a reply from Gim that says Arc Lightning could be used, and I agree very much. Arc Lightning can be a great variation to the build. Thanks for the feedback. Madcrazy2ks 12:39, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

disclaimer
you really can't ban someone for conversation on their own user page, unless it's one of the following:
 * Racial, sexual, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, or ethnic epithets directed against another contributor. Disagreement over what constitutes a religion, race, sexual preference, or ethnicity is not a legitimate excuse.
 * Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views — regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme.
 * Threats of legal action.
 * Threats of physical violence, particularly death threats.
 * Threats of vandalism to userpages or talk pages.
 * Threats to interfere with the usual operation of a user's computer.
 * Threats or actions which expose other contributors to political, religious or other persecution by government, their employer or any others.
 * Posting a link to an external source that fits the commonly accepted threshold for a personal attack, in a manner that incorporates the substance of that attack into discussion, including the suggestion that such a link applies to another editor, or that another editor needs to visit the external source containing the substance of the attack.

User: Gem

 * deleted/moved major sections from my own user page without permission.
 * He was trying to do you a favour. The page is still [here]. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 15:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * granted, but he still should have known better since his post right before that was warning me of doing the same thing.


 * recently accused / admonished me in general of things that are questionable in truth, and is not in response to any specific said action.
 * threatened to ban me if I cite policy, if in his opinion it is "falsely accusing someone" of breaking it.
 * If I understand this correctly, you're referring to Gem as a girl...but Gem is a guy. Jinkas 15:35, 21 March 2007 (CDT) (This was written when the text above said "if in her opinion..." Jagre later fixed the error, but my comment now needs this contextual note to not look out of place. Jinkas 15:48, 21 March 2007 (CDT))
 * so?
 * So it's generally considered polite to refer to people by their proper gender. Jinkas 15:44, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I just don't see what that has to with the conversation.


 * accused me of attacking people in their guest books, with threats to ban, when I know nothing about said action.


 * I wont even bother answering these as you seem not to listen even when I try to be nice and reasonable. I'll probably just get you to attack me further. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:08, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

User: Defiant Elements

 * has a whole section on his user page devoted to talking trash about me

User: Barek

 * thinks I broke a policy, bans me for it, then breaks the same policy he says I did, then removes the ban ten minutes later.
 * So...he reverts a debatable ban within minutes...and you think this is bad? You want him to let the ban live longer next time? [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 14:38, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

User: Jinkas

 * continuously makes accusations, reports to various admins, and threatens / admonishes, even when no policy is broken. (as in time I quoted 'google search: define: _____"'
 * If you are referring to [this]? He just pointed out to you that you were using the wrong definition of the word in the context. Reading some of his other comments, they seem like suggestions. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 14:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * okay. so saying: you've been warned so and so many times (in response to something that is unrelated)... you've attracted the attention of multiple admins...you're basically on thin ice... you're in violation of so and so
 * these are suggestions?
 * Two options here:
 * You are on thin ice. (Implying I'll melt the ice under you.) This is a threat.
 * You are on thin ice. (Implying the ice is too thin and you might fall through.) Is a suggestion.
 * Jinkas couldn't melt the ice (take admin action) so it was most likely a suggestion. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 15:48, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I believe Jagre is referring to this comment that I made, which can be seen in context at the link provided. For what it's worth, I never mentioned anything about being on thin ice (in fact, Google shows that that phrase has only been used twice in the entire wiki).  However, Jagre's behavior has been discussed by at least three different admins, two of which (if I remember correctly) gave Jagre ultimatums similar to: If you break Policy X one more time then administrative action will be taken.  I believe that is a correct situation for the use of the term 'thin ice.' Jinkas 16:02, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

in regards to above

 * i don't really care, or give an opinion about the actions of the above users. I pose no judgement, and no threats of action against them.
 * rather, the above writing is meant more to point out what they are doing to me in a peaceful, observational way. Jagre 14:22, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I am also just pointing out what they are doing to you in a peaceful, objective way. [[Image:Canada_39x40.png|19px]] Thedarkmarine 14:52, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "think this is bad? You want him to let the ban live longer next time?" sound more like an admonishion than what you said.
 * did he or did he not have a right to ban me?

Don't Forget Dirigible!
Don't forget me! I'm the noob who said that you do a great impression of the teacher from "Karate Kid"! --Dirigible 14:45, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * oh yEAH! *bows like monks on GW*

You like swimming ALL year in a cold lake? O.o Brr.. --Sig mA   15:37, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * jumping in and then getting out real fast is nice :)

You have loads of people that don't like you and you point this out on your discussion section... just one question for both things.... why? :P --- Nightshadow  16:21, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Are you serious?
Today in the morning I posted this on yor talk page: "If I see you acting like this later today or within the next few days I will ban you for a short period so you can cool off." now I come back and see you have started topics about some users which are really negative and could probably be viewed as NPA violations. However, as I'm one of the targets, I can't really ban you even though I warned you earlier. Another admin will have to view this case and do the decision. -- (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll voich against Jagre no-matter what the other admins do. I need we need to give tanaric/gravewit a call, he'll just attack any regular admin, like demonstrated. &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 17:14, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Got my approval, from the sidelines i'm thinking, why are you here dude... &mdash; Skuld 17:17, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Uhm, Gem, you guys are making this whole thing too complicated, passing the buck around like this. Just because an admin is target of his smacktalk it doesn't mean that admin can't or shouldn't do anything about it. Otherwise I could just say "Gravewit is a, so is Gares, so is Gem, so is Karlos, so is Fyren, so is Barek, so is " and there'd be no one left to ban me. If someone breaks policy, he breaks policy, simple as that. Sysops pass the case to another sysop only if they feel they're too involved to make a fair judgement (such as how Barek must have felt when Jagre reverted his edit). And that's what it's about, making a fair judgement, it's not about whether you have been involved in the issue at hand at all or not.--Dirigible 17:22, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm just trying to avoid further problems with this user. As I now have seen people support a small time off from the wiki for Jagre and I've also taken the time to scroll some more through his contributions, I am giving a ban for 3 days. Jagre: I hope you will refrain from any actions similiar to the ones you have done these past few days when your ban expires. I appreciate it that you appologised once on Jinkas talk page and you stopped some stuff after warnings, but pushing further after a serious administrator warning is not what you should do. If you want to discuss the ban with me, I will be online tonight for a few more hours (in game names can be found through my user page). You may also use my e-mail to contact me. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:29, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * i am the only one who has ever apologized.

talking about events and actions of people is not a personal attack


 * Agreed and supported wholeheartedly. Well done, Gem. &mdash;Tanaric 22:12, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Can we just talk please? if you would just listen to me instead of ....doing what you're doing....you would really rather ban somebody than listen to them? this is my own talk page.
 * It's too late atm. Your ban is placed; all you can do is wait (unless you disagree with it; then you can contact your banner and explain the situation. But to be frank, don't bother disagreeing with this one). You beg our ears and attention, yet our cries of warning went unheeded. Use this time to reflect on the situation; don't act prematurely, don't become sour, and most importantly, don't hold grudges. This is not a time to act; but rather, it's an opportunity to grow. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 23:25, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
 * honestly auron, i think your voice is wasted. those who walk in the dark seldom find lamps. i'd love to be proven wrong.... --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 23:28, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Thank you for that Sarah. I actually feel great appreciation to Auron for it. I listen to everyone, but his comments are by far have the greatest impact on me. i could tell you why, but I would be wrong to do so.

Extended block
Jagre,

I've extended your block to a full week from today, because you used anonymous IPs to circumvent your block. This block is not meant to be entirely punitive; instead, we hope that you'll take a week off from the wiki, get some fresh air, and come back calmer and more amenable to discussion. Hope to see you back then.

If you believe any administrator has acted inappropriately, please present your case, with quotes of and links to relevant material, on my talk page.

&mdash;Tanaric 23:44, 21 March 2007 (CDT)