User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 8

Archive Much?
Been a while since I've posted around here lol. Just glanced at RC and seen this, just wondering if it's an attempt to prevent people from uploading generic name images. Other than that, how have things been around here? --   Isk8   (T/C) 20:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yep, that is indeed the motivation there. RT actually did the first one, for Gw012.jpg.  I considered writing a bot script that would pre-prot all Gw###.jpg filenames, but decided that would be too much work (it's not a bad idea, I just don't feel like doing it right now).  I will continue protting them whenever they get uploaded, though, so the user doesn't try re-uploading after it gets deleted.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 20:47, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm currently on gw856.jpg. You have some work ahead. :] RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Widgets
Do you, or do you know anyone who uses the "Wiki page in a widget" widget? Mostly, because I'd like to play around with MediaWiki:Widgetwikipage to add some things like purge and difflast. --JonTheMon 17:50, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope, sorry. I haven't done anything at all with the wiki widgets.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 17:59, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, then I'll probably go ahead and tweak that. What kind of power functions would you want besides Purge and DiffLast? --JonTheMon 18:03, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't use Monaco, so what I want would be irrelevant (unless support for widgets was added to Monobook while I wasn't looking?) &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 19:04, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, i didn't mean you specifically, but like what sort of power functions would a user like you want (like, what extra tabs have you added to your interface)? -JonTheMon


 * All I've got is purge and GWW-switch. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 20:17, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Isn't purge standard for Sysops?
 * I've a box with Del/Ban cats, prefixindex and some other less clicked stuff. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:23, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm dis-inclined to add in del/ban b/c I want it to be usable by most members of the community. And I'm not sure about PrefixIndex, but it might be a good idea. --JonTheMon 20:49, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm, so it is. And apparently it happened [ over a year ago].  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 21:13, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

I'm planning on leaving for good soon.
There's a lot I could say here but it'd make my comment degenerate into off-topic waffle.

All I'll say is that I for one will honestly be sorry to see you go, and thank you for all the thankless work you've put into GuildWiki.

Strange that the most necessary work (e.g., coding - stuff not just anyone can do) is the work that's appreciated the least. A F K When Needed 20:51, March 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've always considered you to be one of the backbones of Gwiki. It'll be strange to see you go. :/ --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 21:24, March 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was, admittedly, a bit concise there, but it seemed like going into detail on that point would take away from the rest of the comment. What I mean is that I'm going to step back from RC patrol, admin duties, and big projects - other people can take care of those, and I need to stop wasting time that I should be spending doing my job or being with my family (or playing Rock Band, my new gaming drug :D (yes, I know I'm a couple years late :P)).
 * On the other hand, I am going to continue documenting Nick's visits, as well as parsing Gw.dat after updates to make sure our skill descriptions remain accurate. And of course I'll respond to any comments on my talk page.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 21:55, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah goodie.
 * tbh... the day you and Felix are gone is the day I finally accept GuildWiki has died :( A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:08, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shame to see you go, and I hope you will be back soon. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:30, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * *sigh of relief* Okay, so you're still going to update skill descriptions. Doing that is such a tedious job without the gw.dat --Gimmethegepgun 14:58, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

hey, Doc
Even though you're not leaving for permanently, I feel like this is as good an occasion as any to say this.

I know that we've fought a lot over the history of the wiki (especially when it comes to certain temperamental mutual acquaintances); especially ever since I forced your RfA through way back when, I always had this feeling, "Dear God, what have I unleashed?" While I didn't exactly expect you to be "my personal wiki janitor" of sorts, I never anticipated you blossoming into the headman and, in many ways, community leader that you are today. Always, you have given things 110% of your best effort, going way above and beyond the call of duty as "just an admin" to bring us all sorts of wonderful things...javascript, anti-Wikia fixes, Zaishen and Nicholas data, .dat combings, and on and on. Like Rose of Kali has been to the images/armor sections of the wiki, you have been to ... most everything else, almost.

And you know what? I never got a real chance to honestly thank you for all of your hard work and effort.

I greatly value and appreciate everything you've done for the wiki. Please don't ever forget that. Not checking back here frequently, I can't speak to any undercurrent factions of "Mendel vs. Ishmael". Still, no matter what perceptions it may cause, I want to reassure you that your work is not thankless... there are many of us who appreciate you. I do every time I view the recent changes. I do not mean to make it an excuse, but I have always been somewhat reluctant to approach you with such words since you have self-confessed on more than one occasion that eloquent words are not your forte. I did not want to embarrass you unduly. :)

So, once again, thank you for your service. You are definitely one of the cornerstones of GuildWiki as I see it today. No matter how small we may be compared to GWW, I still believe that is something to be proud of. (It worked on my college applications, at any rate. Extracurricular leadership activities ftw.)

(T/C) 04:26, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

P.S. And lest I forget, I also have to thank you for introducing me to m.o.v.e. I still listen to them every day. ;)


 * I really didn't mean to leave you unanswered for so long, but at first I wanted to take the time to come up with a proper response, and after a time I did just forget. But like you said, I'm not much for eloquent words, so I should've just said something.  I'll say it now.
 * Thank you for believing in me. pop culture may have blessed that phrase with a tinge of corn, but I use it sincerely
 * More than likely, I would've continued being a strong contributor, but without the sysop status, my sense of commitment would've been nowhere near the level I've given, that has earned me the respect of enough people to be called a "cornerstone" or "backbone" of the wiki. In my RfA acceptance, I said, "if I am given admin status, it would give me a very strong incentive to devote more time to this community, which I would gladly do."  I think I've more than lived up to that.  The lack of immediate thanks or appreciation never really bothered me, simply knowing that I was improving the wiki was enough.
 * Overall, I have truly enjoyed all the time that I've put in here, and being part of this community. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:45, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. Awesome. ^_^d In the final tally, I'd say that is worth more than the sum of everything else I've done on this wiki.
 * P.P.S How typical. When I'm trying to not be eloquent, I turn out a masterpiece. XD

materials
Hey, you've been updating material pages, so I figured I'd ask you here. In the example of the Glass Vial, it's also used to make Vials of Ink. So would it be worthwhile to include the craftable rare materials along with armor and other items in the "requires xxx" section? Like Leather requires Hide, Steel requires Iron, etc. What do you think? It's just the matter of adding the appropriate categories to those pages, right? RoseOfKali 17:59, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'd intended to do that originally, but I forgot to account for it in my bot procedure - instead, because all materials link to each other through the navbox, I did a blanket removal of all materials from the article list. And yep, just add the categories.  You can do it if you want, or I'll do it tonight.
 * We might still want to make a special note for that, though, since the rare materials don't really stand out from the Requires list otherwise. Heck, all of the drops, salvage, and requires notes should really be fine-tuned for each material, I just didn't feel like modifying the generic phrasing during my copy/paste spree last night.  Like for wood, you could have, "Drops primarily from plant creatures; a complete list is given below." or something like that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:15, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cool. I won't get around to it tonight, planning to play some D2 after the last patch. :P But you've done a lot of work on this already, so if you just don't feel like it, that's fine, I'll get around to it soon.
 * As far as the phrasing, I dunno if all mats can be generalized into what drops them most (though I did get plenty of the "fancy" wood from the plants in Pongmei, never ever seen anything else drop it so much :P). You could make a sandbox of those for each mat, and we can all discuss it and see what fits best. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:34, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not necessary or, as you point out, feasible to customize each note for every material like that. If there's nothing notable about items that salvage into linen, for example, then just leave the generic salvage note there.  I simply wanted to make it clear that the generic notes aren't untouchable.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:58, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, doc. I have a few concerns. One, it seems kind of ridiculous that anyone can go in and edit your page... For two, I'm assuming that you were the one who made the changes to the Guild Wars items lists?

(((Plant Fiber-Plant Fibers are a common crafting material.-Acquisition...)))

Can't the creatures also be categorized by location? Just a straight list isn't exactly the most convenient thing, even if you can find their individual locations by going to their links. You don't want to go to every creatures page just to compile a list of creatures in an area that you can get to. This would help a bunch! Thank you!! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.41.181 (contribs).
 * Firstly - it's a wiki, the whole "editing the page" is kinda the point.
 * Secondly, that'd probably take some doing (it means someone has go go in manually and find out who goes where, I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying there's no easy way for it to happen, it just is a lot of work to update every page. Random Time  00:04, April 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I rather realize that. But people's own pages really shouldn't be. Second off, yes, I realize this. If it were not for that fact and the fact that I do not know how to work the drop down, I would edit it myself. I'd be happy to help do that, though, if I knew how to work editing things in the drop downs. Help, though. I really couldn't do it all. lol. not enough time. so if you could perhaps contact me on my wiki and tell me how to do that, I'd be glad to help, though you would have to tell me exactly how you wanted it formatted and presented. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by CrucialRaven (contribs).


 * Vandalism is easily reversible, and a lot of editors can put in constructive edits to userspace pages, if it's a serious problem, a page can be protected. I'm not sure what your third sentence is saying, but that's probably because it's 3AM here. The way "drops by the following creatures" works is that there's a category tree, so anything that drops plant fibers must be in Category:Drops fiber. To have it sorted by location would mean that someone would have to edit every monster page, and put in new categories which contain the location, monsters are in lots of locations, which means this would be an overcategoried mess, and not really help. You can tell with most of the monsters where they'll be anyway (charr in post-searing, stone summit in the shiverpeaks, etc), so the extra work and mess wouldn't be very helpful anyway. Random Time  02:38, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Huh? How many wikis have you edited on?  Every page on a wiki is editable by everyone, unless it's been protected.  And a page usually have to be the subject of some very serious and recurrent vandalism for protection to be invoked.  Out of over 18,000 mainspace articles on this wiki, only [ 15 pages are protected].  User pages normally never get protected.
 * And no, that's a stupid idea. Categorizing creatures by location is a good idea.  Categorizing creatures by the materials they drop is a good idea.  Categorizing creatures by location and by the materials they drop, not so much.  That's getting to the point where the cost/benefit ratio of the idea is way too low to be worthwhile.  It's an overuse of the categorization function to the point that the results are meaningless except in extremely specific situations.
 * If you really have to have lists of creatures that drop a material sorted by the area they appear in, go learn how to do category intersections with DPL or SMW and make your own lists. Here's an example to get you started:

category = Drops bone cateogry = North Kryta Province
 * There's probably a way to make DPL generate a full list of everything that drops bone and sort it by area, but I don't know enough DPL to do that. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:26, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

So I herd
You're one cool dude. Talk to your good old friend Rasky every now and again QQ Docta Jenkins 06:37, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you stopped acting like a moron around the wiki, I might. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 14:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * So cold QQ. I thought our game and wiki relationships were exclusive of one another. Docta Jenkins 00:02, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Wiki is not IRC is not in-game is not etc..." only applies to administrators taking action against users on the wiki - i.e. I can't, for example, ban Felix from the wiki for calling me names in-game. It does not have to apply to anyone's personal relationships with anyone else.  So yes, if you do nothing but troll around on the wiki, I'll simply ignore you everywhere.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 01:12, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess I'll have to give up gwiki then. Kinda sucks, oh well. Talk to you in game buddy ;D Docta Jenkins 07:13, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re White Mantle Disguise vs Robes
&rarr; Moved to Talk:Costume

Costume Makers
&rarr; Moved to Talk:Costume Maker

Help with drop-rate Summary lines?
So first thanks for help with formatting on my new page!!! Second, so that it can be maintained easier/better, who would be the best person for me to speak with about auto-total & percent options? Also is the feature of "lines" (see http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gift_of_the_Traveler/Drop_rate/line") available on this Wiki? Appreciate your assistance in order that I may better support the unofficial effort!!!

--


 * AFAIK, there's no way to do auto-tallies here, Wikia just doesn't have the required MediaWiki extensions installed.
 * You can do the /line thing, sure. We've just never bothered with it before.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:12, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * What about the code in Drop rate/To Dye For? It does some kind of auto-tallying, albeit it's a custom written template, but maybe it can be changed to accommodate the needs here? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:37, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's a bit of a kludge, and all it does is calculate the percentages using the totals as input. It could be adapted for use on the Parcel table, but it would be messy to expand it from 10 to 21 items.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:48, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've made a table that utilizes a /line template and auto-sums. Haven't gotten around to making it do fancy stuff like percentages, but that'd just be the next step. Be forewarned, the template isn't that pretty right now. --JonTheMon 20:31, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I appreciate everyone's time on this subject and do see the example on Jon's page. So have a few questions and will follow-up with him directly at his talk page. Thanks for let me have a space to ask and getting started! -- [[image:User_V13_Savage_Clan-wiki-Singature.gif|http://www.v13clan.com/]]
 * After looking at it, and thinking about the code, i'm just not comfortable automating that without the proper tools (wiki extensions). --JonTheMon 20:26, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, it does work (assuming the /line template was always used correctly), and it's certainly a novel use for DPL, although I'd still have to call it a kludge. The biggest problem would be the percentages - you can't calculate percentages until you know the total, and since you're calculating the total on-the-fly...  I don't think it would be possible.  So you could do either totals or percentages for drop rate tables, but either way it would be kludgy.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 20:33, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, it'd be kludgy as hell. And the only way to get it to work would be to have the base data on a different page than the totals. And the percentages could be done, but it'd require a manual adding of each category, and using those values divide by a manual adding of all values. Not very pretty. --JonTheMon 20:42, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

my purge button
I miss it ever since I switched to monaco (and we don't have one of those fancy running clocks like GWW). And apparently it doesn't work the same, so copying my User:RoseOfKali/monobook.js to my User:RoseOfKali/monaco.js didn't just somehow magically work. Is it possible to add that button to monaco, can you help me please? Thanks! RoseOfKali 11:14, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, isn't there a monaco button to the far right of the tabs that says "refresh"? That should be your new purge button. --JonTheMon 13:02, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Only admins get that tab by default, everyone else has to add it with JS. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 13:57, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, righto. --JonTheMon 14:00, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Try this: in your monaco.js, where it says 'p-cactions', replace that with 'page_bar'. The addPortletLink function takes that as the id of the &lt;div> in which to create the tab, and Monaco has different ids for everything.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 14:11, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, you have to do that AND replace a couple of the 'if' lines as I have noted here. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:13, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cool, thanks! :D RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:31, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * The reason we don't have the cool clock thing here is because it doesn't work anymore... I used to put the code in my own .js so it would show up for me. I'm not really sure why it stopped working. It must be because of differences between the two sites. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:45, April 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * It works for me on Monobook. The line "var timerParent = " would probably only need one minor change to work for Monaco.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 19:26, April 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * And what kind of change would that be? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:52, April 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Very similar to what I had to do for your purge button. Check out User:Bot_ishmael/monaco.js.  You'll probably want to play around with the "timerObj.style..." lines, it looks somewhat huge with the current settings.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 03:10, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Costume template
You need to disable the [edit] links like was done in other templates, currently they take you to edit the template itself. Thanks. RoseOfKali 14:48, April 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops. Fixed.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:33, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Characters
How did you setup your character panel on your profile?

Dragon Cupcakes
The Cupcakes were handed out in the 2009 Dragon Festival (coding error; see Dragon Festival 2009). Wet Wet Wetter added the cat "Dragon Festival 2009 items" back then. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  15:58, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Anyway, my policy has always been that if it's a bug, it doesn't count.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 19:11, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it would be completely reasonable to remove them from the category, since they're not intended to be Dragon Festival items. On the other hand, Dragoncakes sound epic and delicious. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:37, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

O.O Oh my God :P
Thank you!

I was going to revert my edit since consensus went against me, but after all that work you did... as Viper said, it's a cool pic. A F K When Needed 11:37, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * "...all the work you did..." o.O Turn on WikiEd -> find/replace all "Guild Wars 2 Assassin.jpg"/"Guild Wars 2 Assassin?.jpg" -> save.  I mean, yeah, I spent 2 hours doing that, man does my right pinky hurt from hitting the '?' key so many times.  I may have to sue you for the cost of my carpal tunnel treatments.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:23, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Course Correction
I'm sorry it's taken me 5 days to at least formally accept the apology you posted on my talkpage, but there's been so much more in your post that I didn't yet have an answer to (I do now). Late as it may be, I thank you.

You wrote, "you need to take responsibility for gaining full (or at least better) understanding of a situation before you directly overrule any administrative action", and I agree; I would ask you that if I do fail at this, please shout at me on my talkpage instead of duking it out in mainspace or project space, it'd be much appreciated. (Not that directly overruling you will be possible in the near future, what with me not having sysop, but things may change yet again - hopefully, of course, I'll not need to. ;)

Since y'all convinced me to keep having a go at being a bureaucrat, if I wanted to have a quiet word with you about that May 3rd block, preferably without re-raising the spectre of me having an issue with you personally, how would you suggest I best go about it? Talkpage, email, IM/chat, phone call, not at all? I'm still going to want to address the [ wiki] [ at] [ large], but I'd rather avoid you getting the impression I'm putting you up on the pillory or some such. -- ◄mendel► 08:46, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Talk page is fine. I don't mind having someone bring up an issue for discussion, it just seems like it would be more productive to hold said discussion before anyone takes any further action on the issue.  [Action - discussion - final action] seems more efficient than [action - reaction - (possible re-reactions) - discussion - final action].
 * Since I'm already typing, I'll go ahead and try to explain that block. The user had made a very crude vandalism edit.  In my experience, users like that A) have a tendency to vandalize again, including re-vandalizing after they get reverted, and B) have a 99% chance of never making a constructive contribution to the wiki.  Thus, blocking a vandal like that has no negative consequences, but has a good chance of preventing further disruption from the same vandal.  What's wrong with that?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 14:25, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * And if you want to discuss the block I made just now... I did not block for the first vandalism, since it was minor and of a style that I don't usually see lead to additional vandalism. I only blocked after they vandalized a second time.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 15:14, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do look at the vandals' contribs, so if I had examined that block before you mentioned it, I'd have noticed that. I agree that the 4th edit by itself would have been minor, but the first edit today was "obvious vandalism", and the two edits of the day before qualify this IP as a repeat offender.
 * I have thought much about my next step in our discussion, but I don't feel collected enough now to put it to paper bits (1 a.m.), so I beg your leave to hand it to you tomorrow. -- ◄mendel► 23:02, May 11, 2010 (UTC)