User talk:Tupu/Build Archive/Build:Team - Underworld Speed Trap Duo

Wipe of the build section
Due to the build section beeing deleted on May 1st, 2007, I archived this build and it's discussion page in my user space. You can find it here : User:Funky_Jah/Builds/Build:Team - Underworld Speed Trap Duo. Please continue any discussion on the discussion page of my copy instead of this talk page, as I won't come back here to check if someone has added something. Thanks. Funky Jah (talk) 09:06, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Rate-a-Build
Please test and vote on 

Tested (favored):


 * 1) This build is very effective for cleaning up aatxes, smite crawlers, grasping darkness & coldfire nights. The trappers have minimum risk of failing unless the aggro & pull was bad. If any ennemi survives the traps, active trapping (even on coldfire nights) is pretty easy. One can add a shower Ele to extend the run and accomplish the quest in the village(and thus capturing the black widow & obtaining a chest) or go south-east to wipe out the twin mountains (ecto chances on charged darkness). This build is at least as fast as the conventional 3-man team but increases the individual drop rate of ectos.--Pqkgizmo 20:53, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) As an experienced trapper I can see this being very workable and it has several stategies and reasons that make it work (primarily Dust Trap and it's dupes - why didn't I think of this before?). It should be noted that I haven't tested this specific skill set but I can see exactly how it would work and well.  I haven't had too much trouble with many other trap builds in 2 man groups and this seems to maximize the numbers and time spent to take the most advantage of traps in a 2 man UW run while also simplifying the attributes needed so as to avoid spirits and SQ while giving defense and healing to both.  It's not for newbies but then again if you are 2 man-ing UW you shouldn't be a newbie by then.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  13:58, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * 3) Now all I have to do is find a group...--Silk Weaker 00:40, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * 4) As another experienced trapper(has planned on a solo run)this looks like a very well thought and workable build...now to cap echo and run it.--Domon Kasho 04:09, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * 5) I'm a very experienced trapper and after testing this I fell in love with it. Fast, and now me and Kalomeli don't need to find a third trapper to help us. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 13:15, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * 6) I trapped with Gem with this build. This sure is faster than the 3-man trappers team. And this really works. Kalomeli 14:28, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * OK, finally gave this a run or ten. I like it. I didn't stopwatch it against a normal 2man build, but it seems slightly faster. Noteably on the smites... I'll put my comments below -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 04:02, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) Experienced UW trapper here and this looks like it would be quite a bit faster than the 3-man teams. Also gives more ecto's per person. =) A good way to spend quality time. =D — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 18:11, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) I love UW Traps, this one looks great for duo trapping <>Spark 20:26, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * 3) This build works perfectly as long as you have the right communicatio with the other person. i also find that 1 major wilderness survival rune on your druids armor along with 4 attunment runes work jsut fine, and maximize your trappage ;) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.124.50.26 (contribs).
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Unfavored:
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Discussion
Is the Mimic for spike neccesary? If it's for KD, I've used Tripwire instead and it worked just as well. You can chain KDs too, with tripwire, for agressive trapping. ie. Spike-->tripwire-->second tripwire, which makes even less preperation necessary. Doesn't matter of course, but I thought the mimic would mean more downtime.--Silk Weaker 04:13, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * I would assume the Mimic is to copy echo and put more dust traps down, as they do the most damage so u are both stacking dust traps.
 * You're right, if you look closely at the builds, you'll notice that both Arcane Mimicry and Spike Trap are on the same character. Arcane Mimicry is used to copy Echo, so that the Mime can duplicate Dust Trap. Another way of doing this would have been to give Echo and Dust Trap to both, and use the other slots to put Flame Trap, Barbed Trap and Tripwire, but that way it would have ended up with replacing Spike Trap with Tripwire, which is less effective. --Funky Jah 13:05, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * My bad, yes, dust traps. In any case, I was able to trap with one Echo-Puller and one normal spike with rebirth for safety. With tripwire, the chained KD keeps them in the traps long enough that the extra traps didn't seem neccesary, since 7 dusts seems more than enough (4 from echo, 2 from spiker, then + 1 during pull)--Silk Weaker 04:07, 20 December 2006 (CST)

If the entire purpose of this build is to get as many traps dwon in as short a possible time wouldnt serpents quickness be better than trappers focus, here why i think so... also with 16 wilderness survival it lasts 31 secs, longer than echo copies dust trap for ( if activated at the right time)... I havent looked to see if this will actually let you get another dust trap down before echo runs out yet but thought it may be worth looking at, the only problem is once it ends theres a 14 sec downtime right when you placeing the last few traps.
 * Dust Trap 2 sec activation 30 sec recharge
 * Trappers Focus reduces both by 25% so saves 6.5 secs
 * Serpents Quickness reduces recharge by 33% so saves 10 secs


 * You may be right, I'm going to test Serpent's Quickness instead of Trapper's Speed. But the main disadvantage I see to Serpent's Quickness is its very long recharge time. Anyway, I'll compare both and see which one is the best. --Funky Jah 04:04, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * This build seems like a great idea. Going to test soon. What comes to SQ vs TS, the long 15 second time without SQ is going to kill the speed idea of this build. As you can constantly hold TS on you, you will be able to complete trapping the necessary sets way before you could with SQ. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 04:19, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * I think so too, but I will test it anyway with a chronometer to be 100% sure Trapper's Speed is better than Serpent's Quickness. --Funky Jah 05:54, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * Okay. Damn Yankeed are holding the favor. :( --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 05:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * I haven't tested them without spirits, but when I did EW->QZ->(speed boost)->4trap spam testing I found that SQ let me put down just 9 traps while TS let me put down 14. But I'm at work right now and can't verify my results. I really would like to test 5 trap builds too. If I get to this tonight, I will be sure to post numbers. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 13:20, 20 December 2006 (CST)

As a side note: I was able to solo the Aatxes with the puller build when Kalomeli died twice in a row at the beginning. (Dunno what went wrong with her) -- (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Alternative
I often 2 man with the below build:

The top build is the puller. This build uses the standard 47s trapping period followed by the pull. Aatxe's take 1 extra dust trap to kill if they get a clear run out of the trap area. The listed build claims it is faster than the traditional 3 man, but it seems to me that all they can gain is about 6 seconds per trap location (4 traps plus trapper's speed == 14 traps in 47s with EW/QZ). -- Oblio (talk) 13:17, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * The reason why I like this one is that you don't need to wait for the spirits to recharge between the trapping spots and the spirits don't cause any extra trouble if you initially select the trapping spot poorly. (Sometimes happens when you are too hasty, even if you are experienced) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:26, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I was also thinking there might be some advantages to actually combine the 2-3man spirit build with the speed trapper build. Suppose we replace the Echoer's Flame Trap by Quickening Zephyr and the Mime's Barbed Trap by Energizing Wind. This will grant both some energy management (lowering the cost of Dust Trap to 10 vs.12 -- 13 in Expertise -- and Arcane Mimicry to 10 vs.15) and speeding up recharge time of all skills. In this case, it could even be better to use Serpent's Quickness instead of Trapper's Speed as SQ gives 33% faster recharge without increasing activation time of traps!

Echoer's build:

Mime's build:

The sequence would be: far behind, Echoer lies down QZ, then the Mime lies down EW. The trappers move towards their trapping spot then start the usual combo. This approach gives several interesting advantages. You have spirits, but they are not necessary. When you are trapping a small group of mobs, just do it the usual way without the spirits; when you are trapping huge groups, lie the spirits down, move to the trapping spot and start spamming traps all around the area. This build mitigates the sprits' recharge time disadvantage. Some might argue that Flame Trap is very useful for active trapping. True. But, if you can lie down 2-3 more dust traps with this approach, their might not be any survivor to aggressive trap... I think I can give this build a try with Funky Jah ASAP. --Gizmo 20:38, 4 January 2007 (CST)


 * The problem is that you need to wait for the spirits to recharge and agressive trapping with less traps is harder as you can't really use spirits then. There's usually need for aggressive trapping atleast once every trapping trip. Pulling the AI doesn't always work as the monsters sometimes get weird ideas. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:34, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * I like this build (the one on the build page) better than the 2 spirit build, however, I find you have to wait just as long for Arcane Mimicry as you do for Spirits (I should caveat that by saying I haven't spent time stopwatching them). Anyway, I would prefer not to change the build... the 2 spirit-duo is really a no brainer that every serious trapper has tried from time to time. The echo-dust trap idea is fairly unintuitive... I needed a wikibuild to get that idea. -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 10:09, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * I haven't have time to test this alternative build yet, but I do love the original 2-man Speed Trap build as well. It is true that you need to wait for Arcane Mimicry to recharge. For fun, I have been pushing further the idea of a spirit-speed trap combo and have tried a solo spirit-echo-dust build. This thing is definitely hard, real hard! After a couple of runs, its turns out that it does work if you properly choose your trapping spot (now I've got them all pretty well figured out :D). I was able to clear out the chamber, 'most' of the Ice Wastes (didn't want to bother with the last 3 smites as I had to go through 4 groups of Coldfire Nights which are very hard) and the few groups of Grasping Darknesses and Aatxes south of the chamber in an hour (I've got a screenshot of that). This solo build is not 'much' slower than the duo Speed Trap build, as I do not need for spirits to recharge (they already are) and the time I've moved onto my next target, I'm ready; I think I must be in average a minute longer per groupe of mobs... Do you think that the build and a detailed description of the trapping technique would be of interest? -- Gizmo 04:05, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Counters
The "Counters" section should be expanded upon. I assume that "proper aggro" means something along the lines of slow pulling with TU, while avoiding meteor showers, drawing terrorwebs into a ladder trap. Someone who uses this build should flesh that section out a bit. -- Oblio (talk) 13:26, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well all I can tell about trapping Dryders with this 2 man build is that it is very hard. You'll have to put about 3 series each, spread out a bit across the area (for example in the entrance of the tunnel which leads to stairs). Then the puller should aggro the Dryders, making sure they all invoke Meteor Shower but being very carefull not to stay under it. The other trapper should back off, ready to act as a puller as soon as the first puller comes back running like hell. Throw Troll Unguent as soon as it is recharged, and try to stop at the limit of the Dryder's spell range so that they don't turn back to their initial position, then pull them slowly to where the traps are. I've never been able to kill them all at once, we always have to flee when the first one is dead and repeat the process. --Funky Jah 14:33, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * I've always gotten 2 on with the first traps (2-3 man spirit team) and then we just aggressively trap the last one. This should be even easier with this build as aggressive trapping is a lot easier. The lack of spirits with the other team is usually a hindrance to aggressive trapping. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:26, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Tripwire
I wanna swap Troll for Tripwire on mime.

My reasons: For Dust trap to take into full effect and for any misshaps in pulling (ie. 1 is slow), having tripwire and spike allows for a consecutive 6+ second KD, letting all fo the damage to sink in as well as dropping a new dust. You can acheive 8-10 seconds with Echo Tripwire, but that's a waste of time, still. Troll will save you on the mime less than another KD.

Pre Spike. When they are just about to active, lay down Tripwire, they stand up, KD again, chain use Spike. There, 6 second KD easily, all 5 seconds of dust trap will deal its damage. You probably don't need 3 KDs, but it could help more than troll I think.--Silk Weaker 22:35, 21 December 2006 (CST)


 * Tripwire would indeed help, but you can also use Spike for the second KD if you let it recharge before the pull. A third Kd is not needed. Removing Troll will make killing the Terrorwebs harder, and Troll is also used when trapping a few quests in the beginning area. (Yes, most people don't do the quests, but I love them) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 04:20, 22 December 2006 (CST)


 * Another advantage of having Troll's Unguent and Whirling Defense on both players is that the Mime can act as a puller if needed (for example, if the puller has died once, it is advisable that the Mime be the one to risk his life by pulling, since he has used his rez). And like Gem said, during the normal trapping sequence the Mime will lay down 2 Spike Traps, which is enough to glue any mob on the traps for their whole duration (from my experience, 1 KD and cripple are enough for any mob to die, with the exception of Aatxes, which is why I recommand setting a few more Dust Traps against them). --Funky Jah 17:59, 23 December 2006 (CST)

SQ and pulling
I have 2 comments after doing a bunch of these runs. The first is that since you are trying to lay down X traps as fast as you can, SQ seems to work better than TS (this is hard to explain since TS is generally better, but I found that we were able to pull sooner when we used SQ instead of TS (we base our pull time on how many traps we have down). The second is that if the mime pulls, the echo'er can drop another couple of Dust traps (that should only be used between far groups though since it tends to slow you down).

Does SQ effect the recharge time on mimicry? That is what we were always waiting on.

edit: Also, this is by far the most fun trapping UW I have had.

-- Oblio (talk) 04:08, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * SQ does effect the reacharge time on mimicry! I am using it in my solo build instead of TS. -- Gizmo 04:08, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Undoubtbly works in DoA as well in some areas. ~Readem

3 Man Variant
Readem, Works really well in DoA according to my guildmates. In order to counter the running away of enemies occisanly, I brought a E/N with Deep Freeze, Ice Spikes, Blood RIt, and various other slows. While you have to split up the booty 3 ways, I found it to be very effective. Though admitily, I then found out the other trapper only had 1 in wildrness, so it was only really one speed solo trapper (me) killing everything. The E/N also was able to slow down aataxes for us so we could get away. Cleared out most smites with the 3 man. Trogam 08:50, 2 April 2007 (CDT)