Talk:Abaddon/Archive 1

In the Jokanur Diggings mission, at the end Varesh and that other person says "Praise Abaddon!" Is Abaddon the Outcast God? Also, Varesh is evil!1??!!11! 82.103.134.254 23:17, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

Since we really don't have a clue who or what Abbadon is, should this page even exist yet?--Sykoone 20:54, 23 September 2006 (CDT)


 * You clearly haven't got very far into the Nightfall campaign. At the end of the 3rd mission (Blacktide Den), after you kill General Kahyet, she tells you that Abbadon will destroy you all.  Then, at the end of the Tribunal (dealing with the death of a Kournan General at the hands of a Sunspear), Kormir tells you that Varesh Ossa and General Kahyet worship Abbadon, as well, she tells you that Abbadon is the Sixth god (the outcast). --Curse You 2:33, 24 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Looks like we have a winner. SeeTalk:Guild Wars Nightfall and see this thread on the GWGuru forums. Also, see this concept art of Abaddon. Note the 6 eyes. Margonite, anyone? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 10:21, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * 6 more eyes &mdash; Skuld 10:45, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Heh, he could even be a flippin paragon, got wings :p &mdash; Skuld 10:47, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I think the two concept arts of the 6-eyed giants both show Abaddon, but the concept art that shows him as a Grim Reaper (with scythe) is much older. The one with the wings is the version that was put into the game. I already commented on that concept art in Talk:Margonites. I think the Margonites are former humans who were converted into mini-me look-alikes by Abaddon. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 11:00, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * They're not wings. If you look closely you see they're serpentine heads, with a crest down the back of each, much like a dragon's head. And they coil around his body to the ground. Sunyavadin 06:56, 28 September 2006 (BST)


 * Strangely enough, I was looking for similar double-dragon motifs yesterday! There's one in Kaineng Center, on the gate next to the mysterious chest (you must use 'z' to see it), and there's also one during the loading screens for the RoF missions - Abaddon's Mouth, for example :D. There are probably more around, I'll keep a look out for them. Planeforger 01:49, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

Me thinks there is more to the story than what's at hand. But I could be wrong. I think someone is pitting the two against each other. --Karlos 06:19, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

is that where the name came from
Abaddon's Mouth (Mission)
 * Abaddon is a demon of Hebrew origin, I believe. I could be wrong, it could be Mesopotamian or Sumerian, but it's from that general area, which A) would fit with the Nightfall theme and B) Is probably where they named Abaddon's Mouth from at first, then decided to use the name for Nightfall.

Dhuum (again)
From Dhuum


 * "Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here ..."

at a stretch, the concept art looks pretty UWish and thronelike &mdash; Skuld 10:27, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I've got two theories. The first theory is that Abbadon, Dhuum, Menzies and probably the Great Destroyer are one entity who's been involved in a lot of sockpuppetry, which may get corroborated or refuted in Nightfall (although Menzies may also be the offspring of Abbadon). It's interesting that Abbadon, Dhuum and Lyssa are all associated with chaos. Maybe Grenth and Lyssa are Dhuum's siblings or offspring, or maybe they just took over his portfolio. The second theory is that, in addition to Abbadon (darkness), Dhuum (death) and Menzies (destruction), there's also a god of decay, disease or corruption who's the enemy of Melandru and possibly a god of madness or cold, ensnaring, ruthless order who's the enemy of Lyssa. -- Gordon Ecker 20:31, 3 October 2006 (CDT)


 * And speaking of sockpuppertry, this guy, previously seen in one of the preview videos, looks like a larger version of the Abyssals and Shadow Overlords from the Shadow Army of Menzies. -- Gordon Ecker 22:07, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

6 eyes
If anyone notices, the Mursatt andm their jade mininos have the exact same 6-eye thing gonig as the above concept art and that fragmented statue seen in the first video of the nightfall preveiw event. Perhaps Abbadon has a connection to the Mursaat.--68.192.188.142 18:39, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Interesting. I didn't even notice that the jade constructs had eyes until now. The Mursaat only have two eye holes in their masks, but they do have greyish, leathery skin like the Margonites, and they could have four more eyes that the masks are covering. Dark Flame Dryders also have six eyes, while Frostfire Dryders have two and Terrorweb Dryders only have one. Doubter's Dryders could have two, four or six eyes, the image isn't large enough to distinguish between eyes and eyespots. -- Gordon Ecker 19:14, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

Background story on Abbadon
I haven't been around much, so no clue if the English-speaking/reading community already learned of this. Anyways, the following is info from NCTaiwan (http://guildwars.nctaiwan.com/gameInfo/intro_03.asp):

(first three paragraphs are generic stuff about Elona that we already know about, so I didn't translate them. Starting from the fourth paragraph).

The nemisis of Campaign Three is the forgotten sixth god of creation - Abbadon. He and his five other brethens: Balthazar, Melandru, Dwayna, Lyssa, and Grenth created this world and the creatures. Abbadon's original job is to rule over knowledge and water, but soon he became everyone's abyss of pain and nightmare.

Abbadon originally represented the gods to give the precious magic to the sentinent races. But due to his limitless giving, it causes humans and the other races to abuse this gift. Thus, the other gods of creation attempted to use the bloodstone to split his power into four great elements, to suppress Abbadon's magic so it doesn't get abused. Abbadon's of course not happy, but the other 5 gods ignored his opposition. Angered, Abbadon gathered his strongest followers, the Margonites, to attack the weak spot of the Rift (not sure if this actually means The Rift, it literally said "world gap/rift/fissure" in Mandarin). He wanted to overthrow the gods and create his own dynasty. Abbadon was so powerful, even two gods together could not stop him. Finally, under the siege by the five gods, Abbadon was defeated and imprisioned, never to be involved in worldly matters again. The location of his battle with the five gods became known as the "Mouth of Torment" (literal translation: Torment's Mouth, not suer what official English will be).

After taking out Abbadon, the five gods also routed the Margonites. Additionally, they attempted to remove Abbadon's name from all monuments and holy scrolls, so that Abbadon will be forgotten by the people. (PanSola's note: eh, so how come there's still a LOCATION named Abbadon's Mouth???)

Nowadays, civilized nations only worship the Five gods, but a group of pagans secretely follow what they refer to as the Sixth god - a god who lost his power long ago. The pagans deeply believe this legend: thounds of years ago, their spiritual vanguard the Margonites had a sad but vailent battle in northern Elona, the power of the battle swept through the plains and turn it into a wasteland, which people nowadays know as the Crystal Desert. The Margonites back then used the power given by the sixth god to wreck hovac, destroy shrines, defile holy places, and killed everything in their path. Even though they had strong divine power to back them, the Margonites finally could not escape the fate of being destroyed. Legend says the sixth god finally is imprisioned in the Realm of Torment. Now some of the wise have noticed signs that says the fallen god might be returning to this world to wreck hovak again. Even though his name has been erased from all historical scrools and monuments, it isn't the end of the story. His loyal servents has been sharpening their blades, practicing their spells, preparing to welcome back the god that has been forgotten and abandoned. They continue to believe, just like night follows the day, He will eventually return to this world. The Margonites bring their will which obeys the great evil power, and paitently wait for the day of Nightfall.

- 19:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Blah, actually paragraph 1 does have new info: Campaign 3 will take place in two different locations: the continent of Elona and the Realm of Torment. The continent of Elona is a northern Africa themed place with Arabian architecture and elements.  "Tormenting Hell" is a different realm that doesn't exist in the real world.  - 19:09, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I just crossed out a huge section of translation because I just realized the proper English version is already available in the Guild Wars Nightfall Prerelease Bonus Pack as part of the main article. Also I just found out about Realm of Torment from GuildWiki, so editing that too. - 20:18, 20 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I guess that Abaddon isn't Dhuum, but nothing so far has ruled out the possibility that Menzies might be Abaddon's sockpuppet, and the giant Assassin version of an Abyssal suggests that the Shadow Army will make an appearance. -- Gordon Ecker 01:29, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I would argue that text evidence in FoW tend to suggest Menzies is a free entity, as opposed to being imprisoned in the Realm of Torment. I also find it more likely to consider the Lord of Destruction has powers roughly equal to his half-brother, whereas the Lord of Secrets cannot be beaten by 2 gods working together.  Not to say it's impossible, but from available information it seems unlikely to me. - 10:37, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Either way, we should find out in less than a week. Abaddon's backstory makes him sound kind of like a mad scientist. He started out with a great invention, shared it with the world, but was too arrogant to admit, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that teaching everyone to cast Invoke Devastation, Rain of Colorless Fire and Summon Great Old One was probably a bad idea, took it personally when they cleaned up his mess and then basically threw the biggest temper tantrum in the history of Tyria. -- Gordon Ecker 15:35, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, at least according to the source I translated from, the gift of Magic is still a gift from all the gods to the sentinent species. Abbadon was merely the designated distributor in charge of handing out the goods, it wasn't his invention. - 15:58, 22 October 2006 (CDT)


 *  - I Dunno PanSola... so far we have, Balthazar (Warrior), Melandru(Ranger), Dwayna(Monk), Lyssa(Mesmer), and Grenth(Necromancer). I believe Abbadon was probably the god of "Elementalist" type magic. But in its old form it wasnt elemental and was probably alot more powerful. So imagine an Ele Who had only 2 stats to put skills into(Magic and Storage), and he could spam Metearodgertningsteam.... So the other gods decided to Nerf him... he didnt like the idea so he revolted. 5 on 1 he lost and got nerfed by anet. Hence the cause of Nightfall (and indirectly all Guild wars games) was a god level nerf. --Midnight08 15:31, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Here's my theory: Like Midnight says, Abbadon was originally the Elementalist god. When the other gods used the Bloodstone to split the powers of magic into their respective elements they each took a n element of magic. Fire for Balthazar, Air for Dwayna, Earth for Melandru, Water for Grenth and the power to contain pure magic energies (Energy Storage) for Lyssa. It fits with the gods blessings at Canthan shrines. --Wil 15:46, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I disagree with Midnight and Wil. Abbadon was the God of Water and Knowledge.  Water is one of the four classic elements of the Elementalists.  Grenth is only the god of cold, not water, and hydromancers worship Grenth only because Abbadon is out of the picture.  This is a strong evidence against the theory that the other gods only each take up an element after Abbadon's defeat.  The splitting of magic isn't a split between the four elements, but a split between Preservation, Destruction, Aggression, and Denial.  The idea is no one can be a Mesmer, Monk, Necromancer, and Elementalist simultaneously (only one primary and one secondary profession).  Get your lore straight d-: - 19:43, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I was just going off of what I know from reading what you posted. Where did you learn about the Preservation, Destruction, Aggression and Denial thing? That sounds like a much richer mythology. --Wil 23:43, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's part of the original Guild Wars lore sourrounding the Bloodstones found in the manual. - 23:59, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You want me to find my manual from Prophecies? You must be kidding :P Oh well, time for a search. --Wil 00:14, 27 October 2006 (CDT)


 * PanSola - just curious, does the Taiwan version translate to "him" "his" etc, or could it be translating to a more gender nuetral meaning? The only reason I ask is that during the GWN launch party thingy, they played a making of the game video full of interviews with the designers, etc.  One off-hand comment that was made was that Nightfall had a clear nemesis, and in the end the player meats her.  Now, I never followed up on this (forgot while asking other questions), and perhaps I even heard this wrong or the developer wanted to throw off fans that saw the video - but I was curious as you've seen the translation if those references from the Taiwaneese manual could translate to either "her" or a gender neutral statement. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:25, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Of course, if it can mean "her", then I want to be the first to make the totally unsubstantiated wild leap/guess that Abadddon's earthly Tyrian form is that of Gwen. LOL.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:29, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * The source of my translation use the third-person pronoune specifically used for dieties, so it's actually gender-neutral. - 19:43, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I just picked up the english version at Best Buy. It looks like the reference to "her" in the making of video may have actually been a reference to the corrupt ruler mentioned on the box, and not the god.  Which makes more sense. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:11, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

I wonder if we are to look on Abaddon as Evil, Corrupted yes, but evil? the god has its place in the pantheon. and it seems that the other gods were just greedy, not liking to see the races of the world become as powerfull as them. Abaddon was generous, that´s hardly a vice. what would have happened after his release. Eternal nightfall, or temporary (but long) nightfall?JFSOCC 08:12, 15 November 2006 (CST)
 * I don't really think we can look on him as an evil god. Corrupted and chaotic, yes; but, not evil. He never does anything so malicious that none of the other gods would do. Balthazar and Grenth would smite unbelievers just the same as Abaddon and they are just as greedy and self-righteous. Hell, Grenth smote Dhuum from his throne in the Underworld due to a lust for the power the dark diety held (it is said that he did it to free the world from Dhuum's evil, but let's face it: Grenth is not a very nice diety himself). To single out Abaddon as the sole "evil" god of the 6 is just plain opinionated in my view and un-needed unless you're going to start categorizing all the gods in this way. I say at best, categorize the gods thusly: Neutral, Chaotic, Chaotic Neutral, Empathetic. Or something along those lines. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 08:53, 15 November 2006 (CST)

WTF?! Level 30?
WTF with Abaddon being level 30??? Dragon Lich is level 30, Glint is level 31, Kuunavang is level 30, Rotscale is 30. And they're all NOT gods. Abaddon is a god and deserve to be at least level 35. Just strange that some dark god can be defeated by some mortals... Lightblade 12:28, 31 October 2006 (CST)

You have to remember Abbadon is also Chained Down, severly limiting his powers. AND he was weakened by the five gods in the first place. So it kinda makes sense.~Kijik


 * He also may have been temporarily weakened from cracking the walls of his prison, pushing into Tyria and causing Nightfall. -- Gordon Ecker 00:28, 3 November 2006 (CST)

Split?
I think this article needs to be split into the following:

Abaddon and Abaddon (Monster) or Abaddon (Boss)

Anyone else agree? — Jyro X 07:06, 15 November 2006 (CST)


 * Nah. That would be two articles for the same thing. We have numerous precedences of NPCs who are both ingame characters and lore characters with a big background story, and we have split none of those: Glint, Lich Lord, Shiro, Prince Rurik, ... and many more. Let's try to keep the information together. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:08, 15 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well then it should at least be edited to look like the other articles. I'll work on re-organizing the information now. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 11:40, 15 November 2006 (CST)