Talk:Barrage

Shouts/Chants/Echo
Does Barrage remove these? If they don't, does Anthem of Flame just effect your target or everyone hit by the Barrage?
 * No, they'll still be on. Anthem of Flame only affects the first one (I think, not 100% sure). Ayumbhara 22:42, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yep the FIRST foe's gets the burning [[Image:Tomoko's_Cookie.jpg|19px]] Tomoko Pink Angel 13:52, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * So you can't use Anthem of Flame to spam burning out with Barrage? What if you stack chants like Anthem of Envy and etc, how would that work? Still only on 1st foe?

BARRAGE REMOVES STANCES


 * Read Dodge's description again. &mdash; Skuld 20:41, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

well it really doesnt remove stances, dodge just ends if you attack, and when you use barrage you are attacking

Did someone remove something here? I thought you weren't supposed to... I see nothing about stances until Skuld says that, which seems kind of random... Tisi 141.154.14.247 08:13, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Combos
Im sitting here looking at barrage, and things just run through my mind, Barrage + Ignite Arrows, Barrage + Apply Poison. Do those work together? If so, this just screams mob control to me.
 * Barrage removes all preparations, so your idea doesn't work. It does work with vampire/zealous bow strings and with Order of Pain/Vampire though as well as the different Conjure enchantments. --theeth 12:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The reason you're sitting there with those combo's in mind is because way back when, you *could* do that. Barrage didn't use to remove preparations (let's say 1.5-2 years ago?) 141.154.14.247 08:12, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

progression table
Can ranger actually get up to 18+ marksmanship? did someone just made the high-end numbers up based on the pattern for the low-end? -PanSola 12:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Assuming it's not possible and editing. --Fyren 14:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the maximum is 17, 12(full attribute)+1(archer's mask)+3(superior rune)+1(weapon attribute), unless i've missed something --William Blackstaff 17:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * ditto William. I think how much barrage does at 17 Marksmanship should be actually checked rather than assumed.  Anet likes to play diminished returns afterall.  Use a super crappy bow to shot at some mobs with ultra high armor (so normal best damage is always 0 even for critical hits), and barrage 30 times ^^" -PanSola 19:11, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 18 Marksmanship by getting the blessing from an avatar of Melandru. This also allows testing of 17 without item stuff. However, I think it's fairly trivial to extrapolate in this case, for it's an obvious linear progression: it's not "made up" numbers, it continuation of an obvious formula. -Ellisthion 08:01, 21 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It's a bit late to point out... well ok very late. The original comment is pre factions and so the additional +1 from avatars would not have been avalible.  I'm sure you've twigged that by now but thought it should be pointed out here for the record :o) --JP 06:48, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd like to also point out that Golden Eggs can raise it..... Tisi141.154.14.247 08:15, 10 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I'd like to point out timestamps...75.61.44.130 09:52, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

I think this page needs some updating.
The Talk page for Judge's Insight currently indicates that JI doesn't, in fact, treat all armor as 60. I think the Talk page about vampiric weapons (weapon upgrades?) had some conflicting things to say about whether vampiric actually adds extra damage or not, too. I'm not making the changes myself because I don't know have enough in-game experience with JI and vampiric weapons to figure out which version is correct. 130.58.235.187 05:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe JI does not treat all armor as 60 (that really was meant for pre-made PvP characters to easily figure out the math, since they are all level 20). Nonetheless, the comment here did not actually say JI does that.  It just says what JI's effect would be to a AL60 armor.  As for vampiric, I'm not sure.  In any case, it wouldn't be THIS page that needs updated.  We would have to sort out vampiric on its own page first, and once we figure out what's going on with that see if this page needs to be updated or not.
 * Hmm... "the equivalent of +23.11% damage vs a base armor level of 60". You're right: it doesn't actualyl say that JI resets all armor to 60 (though I think you can see how it's easy to see how someone reading both pages together could quickly misinterpret that). Nevermind, then. 130.58.235.187 05:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Question
Say you have a zealous bow string on, and you used barrage, would you get 6 energy?(Assuming that all arows hit)


 * Yes. Same holds true for a vampiric bow string. You would steal life from every monster hit.

"Watchful Spirit and Live Vicariously will, likewise, trigger multiple times[...]" Watchful Spirit?


 * Fixed it. --130.58 03:17, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Against one target...
I know it says "Shoot arrows at up to 6 foes near your target." But, does this move attack one target 6 times if there aren't any other targets nearby?
 * No, Barrage will not hit a single target more than once.--Xis10al 03:43, 3 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Someone please check this. If I use barrage against a single foe, I see multiple numbers drifting up. --Jawn Sno 13:27, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * Tested. Barrage against single foe leads to only 1 attack (I only see one number). Are you sure there weren't multiple foes standing in the same spot? Or that you didn't have some other buff (e.g. Conjure Flame) active when you were using it? Infinity 20:43, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Barrage/Interrupt
Why do so many people have the impression that barrage is essential to an interrupt build? I get this all the time: "Interrupt rangers make sure to take barrage!". I just have to ask "why?" About the only thing it would be useful for is in large groups of trappers or something else with lots of easily interrupted skills. --aCynicalPie 01:20, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Because a simple Barrage build requires all of 2 or 3 skills, meaning that you can easily hybridize a Barrager with another build, and Barrage's preparation-smashing idiosyncracy makes it incompatible with many other ranger builds, you're left with Barrage/Interrupt and Barrage/Pet as pretty much the two Barrage builds that everyone plays. Then... err, okay, it's probably because people are stupid and don't understand that "Barrage/Interrupt" means "I'm doing two completely different things". &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 01:28, 19 June 2006 (CDT) )
 * You can't have RtW with barrage :/ &mdash; Skuld  05:23, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
 * This is probably WAY too late, but what does Rt/W have ANYTHING to do with the topic they were talking about? Just wondering. 152.163.101.15 21:51, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Read the Wind (RtW) is a preparation. Barrage ends preparations. -[[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] Krowman [[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] 21:56, 13 February 2007 (CST)

Favourable Winds
I'm a Barrage-spammer with both my A/R and, when she's in bow-mode, my R/W; I take Favorable Winds with me at all times when I'm switching to the Barrage-builds. I kind if wonder why I never see any Barrage-builds employing FW as well - am I mistaken in believing that Barrage's attack-speed is affected by Favourable Winds? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.187.79.202 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * Every Barrage party build, (fow and ruins mostly), has one or two rangers carrying FW. for a solo Barrager, (in a party, but without any other barragers), it is usualy too much time consuming, to cast it before every combat. Foo 06:56, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * well, i carry FW when going on Pick-ups. FW does not affect ATTACK RATE, but does affect ARROWS FLIGHT. it's a subtle distinction.
 * Rate is how fast you can loose arrows, and the fastest rate for barrage is recharge time (1 second) + Human reaction time (.35 seconds, depending on the player's twitch-ability) + lag (.1 seconds or less on a good day) + attack time (1 second).
 * Flight is the time from the loosing of the arrow to the impact of the arrow. this is only important when the target is moving, as arrows do not redirect in the air, or when you need to time interupts. with a long flight bow, such as a Flat Bow, the targets have a long time to change directions or finish skills between loosing and impact.
 * I hope that helps --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 18:07, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

How does this work with Nightmare(corrected) Weapon? Do you steal 51 health from all 6 targets or just 1?


 * 1 also -- [[Image:Ritualist-icon-small.png]] Cwingnam2000 22:29, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

1, BTW, Vengeful weapon is triggered when people attack you, i think you meant Nightmare weapon which steal life on next successful attack -- Cwingnam2000 20:41, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

6 targets?
The skill description is unclear and there isn't a tight enough cluster of target dummies on Isle of the Nameless. Does barrage hit 6 targets including the primary target or 6 targets in addition to the primary target. -- Gordon Ecker 03:34, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Should be 6 targets total (1 primary and 5 secondary), if I remember correctly. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif]] kyrasantae  04:41, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
 * On the contrary, I remember it as 6 targets in addition to your primary target, for a total of 7. - [[Image:Order of the Vampire.jpg|12px]] Threll 20:49, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

If it is Primary+6 targets, does the extra damage from Barrage still get dealt to the primary foe, or just the extra 6? Tisi141.154.14.247 08:24, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * All of them get hit for the bonus damage --Gimmethegepgun 08:45, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Research needed?
I was looking for something to do and saw this still is in the research needed category. However I see no reason for this anymore, can I remove it? --MasterPatricko 13:43, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Because no one has tested Barrage's maximum number of targets in scrimmage. -- Gordon Ecker 23:45, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Bugged?
I usually use barrage on my assassin (who is a critical barrager), and I've noticed that sometimes barrage doesn't work. It seems that when I'm outside of the bow range for an enemy, then hit barrage, she just kinda runs up and starts using a normal bow attack. Any time I hit barrage, she starts the motion like she's going to do the attack, but she doesn't. If I keep hitting Barrage, she just kinda sits there. Any ideas as to why this happens? it really sucks if I'm doing AB with her, since I just kinda sit there... ~Avatarian 86 23:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * This happens to me, although rarely, while I'm farming in Pongmey Valley with a Ranger Barrage build. Sometimes it takes me some time to notice, and it's really annoying that I almost die because of that. I haven't understood the why and how though. Ericdanie 22:03, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Take a look at List_of_skill_anomalies. Most often it occurs when you're on a bridge or something like it. --Ryard 22:11, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It keeps on happening to me when I'm doing AB's, but it seems to occur most often when there's a large elevation change between my target and my ranger (I.E.: I'm on a hill over the target, or something like that). Guess I just have to be more observant when using her... ~Avatarian 86 13:15, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

Best Bow?
I was wondering which bow type would be the best for barrage? The main choices would be:
 * Flatbow
 * 2.0s per shot; range = 1.6x radar; flight time = .88s; large arc, poor accuracy
 * Longbow
 * 2.4s per shot; range = 1.6x radar; flight time = .59s; normal arc, medium accuracy
 * Hornbow
 * 2.7s per shot; range = 1.4x radar; flight time = .59s; normal arc, medium accuracy; 10% Armor Penetration

From what I understand, barrage can be fired only once every 2.2 seconds, 1 second for the attack, 1 second for the recharge, and .2 seconds for the aftercast delay...? ~ Merlin 0525 23:53, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * Depends on what kind of effect you are going for. If you are going for speed, use a Shortbow (in particualr a Half Moon), if you just want raw damage, use a Hornbow for the armor penatration and if you are looking for range, use a featherbow/longbow.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 08:12, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * For the last time, the word "accuracy" is not the same as "flight speed". In guild wars, all attacks are 100% accurate, because they always hit their intended target (the area where the foe is). A dodged shot is no less accurate than a fluke hit from, say, a machine gun, if you get what I mean.
 * Also, a horn bow with an IAS would be viable for this purpose, otherwise, the difference in bows matters little. Also, it's not "radar", it's "aggro bubble". Radar implies compass, which is definetly not the range of the shortbow. --Silk Weaker

Noone said it did, moron.

Removes Glyphs?
I've been using a Fire Barrage build, and I usually add in Meteor Shower, as well as Glyph of Lesser Energy. But I also take Penetrating Attack, Dual Shot, and Distracting Shot. I usually go with casting GoLE, then Conjure Flame, and the Meteor Shower, if circumstances require it- but sometimes I'll change up the order and use Barrage instead of Meteor Shower- the Glyph always ends prematurely at that point. Is this some bug or mistake, or am I not seeing something? Because I'll use any other bow attack and the Glyph will stay there, until I use Barrage.


 * I'm wondering if perhaps Glyphs count as "Preparations" ie. they are actually classified as the same thing. Maybe this should be tested. Except, I can't think of any other skills that directly affect Glyphs or Preparations. Oh wait...Practiced Stance! Quick, someone go see if using that will lengthen the duration of Glyphs and cause them to recharge faster! Entropy 02:03, 24 December 2006 (CST)


 * Glyphs and preparations don't remove each other, so it would seem barrage is specifically removing glyphs. --Fyren 02:04, 24 December 2006 (CST)


 * Hmm good point. I'm going to test Practiced Stance anyways, just in case...it's a very strange bug, removing just glyphs. Forgot to sign >< Entropy 02:11, 24 December 2006 (CST)

It seems to also be removing stances at the moment. Dodge + Barrage won't work. &mdash; Galil  10:18, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Dodge Ends when you use any hostile abilities, try reading skill descriptions. Lute 12:12, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * My mistake, I haven't really used Dodge in quite a while, while playing hostile and if I remember correctly, it didn't use to be that way. Still, that's no reason for being impolite. &mdash; Galil  12:22, 27 December 2006 (CST)


 * Sorry if it came out that way, i wasn't trying to be impolite. Lute 17:00, 27 December 2006 (CST)

Any non spell skill removes glyphs 72.152.31.26 00:13, 16 January 2007 (CST)


 * No test it before you take that off. I just went out again just now to double check and used glyph + barrage, it was removed then i used glyph + power shot, it was not removed. -- Xeon 02:25, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Reverted Nog's edit because glyphs aren't removed by the next non-spell used. --Fyren 19:32, 4 March 2007 (CST)

The game mechanics see glyphs (or moreover know glyphs) as preparations for spells which is why barrage removes them. About time ANet realised this, they fixed it in the latest update (but it wasn't really a bug, they just never intended for the game mechanic to carry over). King Neoterikos

Total targets
It's seven (7). One for the target, six for adjacent foes to the target. Tested in PvE against the huge groups of Mountain Trolls in Snake Dance. I could try to get a screenshot for evidence if it's needed. Entropy 23:42, 15 December 2006 (CST)

Fyren, I think the note about total targets should be re-added And/Or Barrage removed from list of Research Needed... articles. Entropy 01:57, 24 December 2006 (CST)


 * To me, the number of targets is clear from the description. If it were six, your target wouldn't get hit.  The "research needed" category is utterly useless the way it's been used so I ignore it.  --Fyren 01:59, 24 December 2006 (CST)


 * Bugger i was going to test it later in the week, oh well gratz on testing. Xeon 02:00, 24 December 2006 (CST)


 * Kk then, works for me :P Never confused me either but...eh. Entropy 02:03, 24 December 2006 (CST)

Damage to Target
As worded this skill fires seven arrows maximum, one at your target and up to six at nearby foes. It says that these arrows (the ones targetting nearby foes) do additional damage, does the extra damage effect your original target?
 * yes. thats whats in the description.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 15:47, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * Not nearby foes, adjacent foes

Aftercast?
I've read somewhere that barrage takes one second to use (?), but does it have aftercast? Because, if not: ECHO! &mdash;Blastedt&mdash; 15:27, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * Since it's an attack with no activation time, it works at the speed of normal attacks. --Fyren 19:08, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * And it has a recharge of one second. Echo ftl. Entropy 19:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * Echo is elite anyway... From what I know, the attack itself has an activation time, and has an innate (perhaps .75 aftercast). What I mean is that the drawing and firing of the bow takes, in the case of short bow. 1-1.25 seconds, and once arrowed is fire, the attack skill used starts recharging, for around .75-1 seconds, before you can fire your other shot. It has also been said that you do not draw your bow until the first shot has contacted the target yet (with the exception of activation time skills), so that may also be related.--Silk Weaker
 * Mucho lols at the echo barrage. - Anon

Adrenilne
Can this build up adrenile like Triple Chop and Hundred Blades can? I don't know what use this can have, but it would be interesting.--Nog64Talk 19:30, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * I assume it can build up adrenaline. Why shouldn't it?

Yes, you'll get 1 point of adrenaline of each foe thats hit, Barrage combines very well with "Watch Yourself" in B/P teams. --J0ttem™ 08:11, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

adjacent foes
One simple question: do they have to be adjacent to each other when i activate this skill or when the arrows are fired? I know, it's not much difference, but today it looked to me as if the first was the case. --Lux Terribilis 14:55, 5 March 2007 (CST)

From my experience as a BP I would say it is just before the attack launches. I've pondered over this "anomoly" for a while, and I'm pretty sure it is just before the attack launched. King Neoterikos

Barrage+splinter weapon in DoA?
Barrage + splinter weapon is an insane combo. I was thinking that it would work well in DoA against the clumped up mobs. So my question is: anyone want to try it out?:)--SkyHiRider 09:03, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Its awesome in the stygian place, and.. slow, yeh, slow in the foundry :P &mdash; Skuld 09:09, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It also doesn't work in gloom very well because of the environmental condition (50% miss).Tknorris 09:20, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I figured that it would be no good in the Foundry;) But I would like to see it first hand if possible in the other areas. And you played R/Rt or Rt/R?--SkyHiRider 09:23, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * r/rt, I don't have a rit &mdash; Skuld 15:39, 13 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I have both R and Rt primary, but i like playing Rt with Barrage more, deals more damage that way:)--SkyHiRider 04:14, 14 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Splinter Weapon and Barrage is the latest craze in the Tombs PvE area. Works very well. - [[Image:Order of the Vampire.jpg|12px]] Threll 20:53, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Target Choice
Let's say that you have a Splinter Weapon active that can only hit one foe. And you Barrage. Would that Nightmare effect be more likely on your actual target or is it totally random? User:Chief Savage Man 12:09, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Splinter will effect whichever arrow the game decides hits first, which seems to have to do with positioning and not which one is your original target. --Fyren 12:51, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

AoE
This doesn't cause AoE scatter in PvE, does it? --Rickyvantof 13:00, 14 May 2007 (CDT)


 * No, each is just a separate attack, so it's a lot like Cyclone Axe or a scythe attack (unless of course you use Splinter Weapon) --Gimmethegepgun 13:01, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
 * k --Rickyvantof 05:27, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

Ranger

* Barrage: no longer removes Glyphs.

this wont remove glyphs soon anymore. - Chrisworld 16:34, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

I've actually found that Barrage will cause AoE scatter, but that's just my gaming experience. Hasn't stopped me using it. King Neoterikos 18:56, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Really? It always just makes things chase me... Odd that it would cause AoE scatter as it functions completely differently from firestorm/searing heat, etc--Darksyde Never Again 13:35, 25 September 2007 (CDT)


 * AFAIK, it doesn't scatter, but simple testing with 3+ Barragers could give interesting results... Although I highly doubt it --Vipermagi 13:38, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Good elite??
I really don't see why people like this skill so much. I think it's really really bad, because you never have 7 enemies next to each other. Dark Morphon 04:38, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Yet without this, you only hit 1 :o &mdash; Skuld 05:17, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


 * No damage reduction, goes with OoV or OoP, then there is spliter and so forth. Constant 60-70+ dmg per 2 seconds for AoE dmg, i prefer BHA but this isnt that bad. -- Xeon 05:30, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Meh. What else is there to like? I'll make a complete list of all lolgud ranger elites:
 * Burning Arrow
 * Broad Head Arrow
 * BHA is pretty conditional (great in some missions, meh for general pve) and BA gets old after awhile... that leaves Barrage. I mean, you could always take something like Strike as One...
 * So, yeah, I agree with you, Dark. Barrage isn't that impressive. But compared to the jokes they call other ranger elites, it's a miracle skill. - Auron 05:33, 4 July 2007 (CDT)


 * This elite is overrated as hell. Every stereotypical 1.5k Druids/Drago's Flatbow/Pet R/Mo uses this skill... People should leave AoE dmg to the Eles imo.
 * It's been hyped since the day the B/P builds where invented... Everyone was like "Zomg! Barrage pwnz here!! Then Barrage must be good anywhere!! :O".... But no, it isnt.
 * I personally think Barrage is only effective in specialized team builds like the B/P ones with Order Necro's and stuff...
 * I know many people will disargee with me now, but whatever. --J0ttem™ 05:12, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree. Except my ranger has 15k druid and she doesn't use a dragos ;) . While I do agree it's overrated, Rangers don't really have anything like Eviscerate/SF/LoD/SS and whatever so I guess beggars can't be choosers
 * I don't usually use barrage much, I prefer focused shot, hunters shot, and crippling shot, those work practically everywhere, cripple them, then bleed them, then just pelt them with +damage arrows until they die. I take barrage along though on missions because you quite often find large clumps of enemies to use it on. That and a good barrage + splinter weapon shot will cause a lot of damage. --86.144.22.153 15:30, 12 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Volley might be a better skill. Yes, it is a worse skill, being the non-elite version of this, but Barrage is unlikely to hit more than 3-4 targets anyway, and with Volley you can still bring some other elite. There isn't anything I've tested here, I'm just thinking...--Arcady 00:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hornbow
There is a persistent rumour that Hornbows are the best to barrage with, which is wrong. Here's a thread about some testing, hopefully the empirical evidence will stop the proliferation of this bit of misinformation. -- ~ Epinephrine 11:48, 18 September 2007 (CDT)

Glyphs
Does this skill still remove glyphs? Or did anet change it during an update a while back? - Chrisworld 21:58, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * i think they did --Dunkoro 22:20, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Anthem of Flame?
How does this work with anthem of flame? Is it just one enemy set on fire, or multiple. I am guessing one, but just confirming?--Holylorgor 23:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Next attack. The first arrow that lands will cause burning. --Kale Ironfist 00:25, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, Thats what I thought. Thank you for confirming.--Holylorgor 05:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Got buffed
Who neeed SPlinter weapon now?
 * The pre-nerfed splinter weapon with barrage was still 1000% superior. You had the possibility of doing over 250 armor ignoring damage per foe with it with just one splinter + barrage. This buff only raised the damage by like 6 anyways.76.2.20.255 05:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Are u kidding... 4 dmg /= Splinter... cannot even compare to splinter. It is now a less dodgy elite then it was w/o splinter/conjure. I personally dont see this as a buff... because the bonus damage from barrage isnt really that good, people use it more for the many arrows. Thats my pov anywayzLuminarus 05:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Splinter was too powerful. Aren't we glad izzy raised Bs dmg?
 * Yes we are.. So i thought that i would go to Tombs for B/P but then i remembered that they nerfed Pets so they don't leave exploitable corpses.. So i went soloing UW with my Rit instead.. My point is, why nerf pet exploitation?! 193.90.59.204 21:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * | lol Zulu Inuoe 21:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)