Talk:Reversal of Damage

This would be TOTAL leetsauce if it hadn't been linked to smiting -Thomas 15:41, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Mo/Me Air of Smite-I disagree. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 15:50, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

This totally rocks for Air of Enchantment-Smiter, another nice spammable spell that even increases damageoutput. Thumbs up by anonymous

Comparison
Vengeful weapon for monks--Life Infusion 19:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Not quite, since vengeful heals the ally as well, vengful weapon would more accurately be a combination of both this and RoF together, with the (slight) benefit of not being removable from enchant removal.


 * Also, recharge is way to long. Vengeful is only 3 sec recharge AND it steals life. --GTPoompt 20:12, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * However, Vengeful doesn't prevent damage to the user. It may steal life, but it's possible to kill someone with Vengeful Weapon cast on them. VegJed 20:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Imagine catching an Axe Spike with this. People go into Frenzy to deliver the spike, so if you catch Eviscerate or Executioner's Strike, you'll easily deal back 160 damage (If you've got smiting maxed out) since those skills typically hit for like 100 damage. Vengeful Weapon, however, won't be doubled by Frenzy because it's life stealing. --Shadowleaf 02:44, 10 October 2006 (CDT)


 * this triggers divine favour, that's a pretty major plus. Try RoF on an x/mo and see what I mean.Phool 03:34, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

8 recharge, ouch. Soa > This. Otherwise, it looks pretty good even with low smiting. Too bad on the recharge.--Silk Weaker 07:14, 16 January 2007 (CST)

The recharge is now 6. Hopefully, this skill will see more use.67.20.226.28 20:46, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

I would have liked to see atleast a 4 on recharge *sigh* Zulu Inuoe

Useful even at 0 smite, especially when you see a boss' Spirit Rift rising on a clueless tank Mocax 23:23, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds like you're the clueless one with that comment. 68.2.201.35 20:13, 4 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Umm... no... boss's spirit rifts are massively powerful and this negates ALL damage. Mind the NPA --Gimmethegepgun 20:58, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

Me/Mo Smiter + MoR any1 ^^ ./C_E

Just like Vengeful Weapon (Divine Favor), especially with Smiter's Boon--Relyk 05:02, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

THE Abaddon Killer
Experienced it yesterday. That skill alone can kill Abaddon in the last mission of Nightfall. Team just skills the two mobs on the right and left (not the middle one), walks back near the bridge and uses this skill to return the damage taken and Abaddon slowly kills himself oO --Birchwooda Treehug 06:35, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * At that rate, you should be using Retribution, or maybe Holy Wrath.--Carmine 02:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Does NO ONE look at dates comments were posted on? THAT was 6 months ago, when this skill would nullify all damage dealt to you and you could abuse it to beat Abaddon without any risk --Gimmethegepgun 02:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter...you'd still haver to spam it, and with a 6s recharge, you might as well run Retribution for the damage, and if you really need to control your own injuries, toss on PS, or try wearing armor.--Carmine 20:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work anyway now, he got 'nerfed' so he didn't use his fists when chained down.[[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 20:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The point is, before they fixed it you could have a team using just RoD and have him kill himself without ANY effort at all --Gimmethegepgun 20:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Notes: disambiguation
I have a conflict with the current wording and would like further input to ve/cla-rify the resultant of two opposing skills that should by right not work in combination due to the effect of death not being targetable and that the damage SHOULD be inflicted accordingly. I am talking about Destruction, just tested in Scrimmage and the damage was NEGATED after a full 30/s of duration. Maybe its just me, but having read the highly informative descriptions of the effects and triggers, this should simply not be triggered. And hence the wording of the first note of this page : "This spell will only trigger when the damage is being dealt by a foe that can be targeted.". This to me is wrong because clearly the Death or Forced Death of a Binding Ritual, specifically in the case of destruction, is targetable albeit spirits when they die leave no Exploitable Corpses, hence not targetable. Destructions wording is to the effect of after its death dishes out AoE. More concisely: "When this spirit dies, all foes in the area take 1...4 damage for each second the spirit was alive.". Clearly the spirit by this description is dead before AoE is dealt, hence NOT TARGETTABLE by return fire of RoD, hence... cheers ./C_E - Quick Edit, this was raised over at Talk:Destruction by The Painballer.

Your opinion on a change to this skill ...
Would it be overpowered to make this skill more spammable, say, put it on a 2 sec RUT? Currently, Smite has no real spammable skills. It would be nice if this change were implemented, to make Smite builds more viable. A damage reduction would be reasonable in this case.
 * Two seconds is too frequent, 4-5 would be fine in my opinion. Zulu Inuoe 09:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * With Smiter's Boon, it'd make smiting builds more viable. I agree with the 4 second suggestion, though.--Carmine 19:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Nerf
No longer stops all damage...ouch...--Ryudo 18:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that it doesn't stop all damage, they BETTER lower the recharge... *grumbles*Paragon City 23:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * /agree. Zulu Inuoe 19:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * To further explain myself: Vengeful Weapon for comparison isa much better option because A)It is in an overall better line, B)At same attribute levels (Let's say 12) Vengeful Weapon -Always- effectively has a 102 Health change, whereas Reversal of damage depends completely on the enemy. Why is this important? Well because more often than not your enemy will trigger Reversal of Damage with 5 points worth of damage. I do realize Reversal obtains the Divine Favor bonus, but as it stands Vengeful is much better solely because of the shorter recharge, even if it can at maximun do 122 points of health exchange (Which is not effective since it's damage rather than life steal) it is not worth using because of its recharge time and skill line. Make this Recharge in 4 plx. Zulu Inuoe 02:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

"Reversing Death"
Today (A few minutes ago) I was in the Rata Sum looking for a party to do Magus Stones in Hard Mode, this Monk joins my group (You know the type, black armor, chaos gloves, full cock suit) and while coordinating builds I noticed he had a LoD/Protection build, but had 9 points in Smiting and had Reversal of Damage. I asked him why, and he says something like "It gives more DP", which as to my understanding makes no sense, so I asked him what he meant by DP. He went on about "Don't you know what it means?" "Do you know what RoD does? Then why are you asking" "gl finding another monk" (With much worse grammar by the way) and leaves. I keep kept asking in PM and he then said "its euro for death" and so now I'm wondering what in the world the guy means by "gives more death" and I ask him. As usual he says "learn more pve builds pls" and sets me on ignore. Could ANYONE explain what the hell just happened? Zulu Inuoe 18:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think he meant that it does damage --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 18:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He probably meant DPS. And he was dumb. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:22, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Very. Because, you know, everyone has points to split Heal/Prot/DF, have them effective, and still put 9 in smiting. --Shadowcrest 19:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks mates, I thought the Europeans had made some new secret weapon for a second there. Zulu Inuoe 09:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 'If you can't dazzle them with brilliance - blind the with bullsh*t.' Is I think, the philosophy you encountered there 09:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh my god what a complete and utter moron. I wish I got my hands on him Blue.rellik 10:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That guy gives Monks everywhere a bad name. Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  10:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Human monks are over rated anyways, I'd take the silence and quick reaction speed of talkhora and dunkoro over some PUG anyday.69.145.194.67 10:43, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * AI monks are better but I never use them. They burn energy like it was paper Blue.rellik 10:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Heroes are decent, but have too many flaws, as stated by Blue Rellik. Being a primary monk myself, speed and management the key.  Watching other pugs trash monk kind just pisses me off. Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  11:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

(Reset) Healing Hero monks are fine, and very competent as long as you give them skills that are straightforward and inexpensive. (I recommend Ethereal Light and Signet of Rejuvenation among others.) However, Hero prot monks have serious energy management issues, because the skills you most want on a prot monk (i.e. Protective Spirit) are both energy intensive and quick to recharge. This is a bad combo for heroes. For hero protting, you're probably better off with an N/Mo with generous Soul Reaping and Signet of Lost Souls, although I personally prefer a defense-minded Paragon hero... Arshay Duskbrow 11:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * AI monks only burn through energy if u build them wrong. You know, a program or machine is only as good as the human who built it, stop blaming artificial intelligence :) For instance: I use a HB build on tahikora that uses cheap 5-energy spells and inspiration magic side-dish (p-drain, leech sig, etc), and she can manage her energy very well, while having extraordinary speed (HB and I use essence on vquishes/dungeons) and reflexes. Protection can be done the exact same way, but I rarely take a prot monk these days, my usual paragon (me), rit and monk configuration works fine NightAngel 11:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You guys didn't say anything I didn't. Pure heal monks aren't 'good' but they're good enough for most of PvE so there's no reason to think hero monks are bad Blue.rellik 11:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Sigh. the old "oh, any old crap is good enough for pve". So tired of this stupid cliché. Yes, you can "win" missions, dungeons or whatnot with any crap. I'm concerned with doing it WELL. Very quickly, very efficiently and with minimum consuption of any kind of extra and with as little death as possible (ideally, none at all). In HM. And for that kind of goal, blue, "good enough" won't cut it. it has to be "good". Ok? sigh. As if I didnt hate pvp enough....NightAngel 12:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what the hell you are rambling about because you are describing how I do things Blue.rellik 12:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Riight. Cause your AI monks burn through energy like paper, so you only take human monks. That's pretty damn efficient right there :) NightAngel 13:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually no. I tkae henchmen monks Blue.rellik 03:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Competent humans often play monks, but humans do not always make competent monks. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * To blue: "AI monks are better but I never use them" "I tkae (sic) henchmen monks". Ever heard of logic, blue? Last I checked, henchment were considered AI :)) lol. NightAngel 16:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Kill me now. I said 'AI Monks' instead of 'Hero monks'. Kill me now for this heresay and blasphemy Blue.rellik 03:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

ANYWAY, we all agree there are some retarded Human Monks out there, and ANet could have done MUCH worse on the Monk A.I. Zulu Inuoe 22:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So your argument is that henchmen monks have good energy management, and heroes don't, even though they presumably use the same A.I engine. Therefore, what you're saying is that you can't build a monk hero to be at least as efficient as a henchman, let alone MORE efficient. Ouch :) Oh, and it's "hearsay". :) Which, by the way, makes no sense at all on your sentence, it means "rumor". NightAngel 11:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Enough. Can we all drop this now? Everyone has their own opinions on Heros vs Hench vs Human and we could argue all day and night about it, but the only thing we would agree on is that everyone has there own prefernces. Himm Taeguk  (T/C) 12:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The AI engine is a lot better than it used to be, no clue how anyone ever managed to go anywhere in the game with henchies back in the days of old-AI Alesia :/ And when after rezzing at a shrine because Alesia sucked, a random henchman would run on a direct path to the place he/she died, despite objects in the way (and usually while flying), only to die immediately when they reach it, or to get stuck halfway there and when your party dies you can't respawn. The bad old days. But meh, those were also kinda the good old days, before ANet brutally murdered that guy in the alley whose name was "Balance" and introduced Factions. Also, on a side note, he meant to say "heresy" not "hearsay" --Gimmethegepgun 03:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, well. I think the turning point were the heroes, which is probably why they don't allow 7-hero parties. Heroes have their flaws, but if you understand WHAT they are good and bad at, you can make incredible builds that work even better than humans. For instance, using signet of lost souls on a MM. A hero can instantly locate an enemy in range and use it. Interrupts. And some things they can't do at ALL, like using one of my favorite elites, assassin's promise, properly. God knows I tried, but stupid sousuke tried to cast it when enemies were at 5% health. Obviously they die before it hits. Etc. As for monks, they can be pretty good on reflexes but have poor skill activation choices, which is why you must tool their bar to only let them make right choices. Give them something like spirit bond and they'll run themselves out fast (10 energy, low recharge). But give them something like shielding hands and they'll recognize when someone is being beaten up and use it NightAngel 12:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Cof Reversing to death Anyone know when reversal of damage started to have some damage directed back at the smiter in CoFduring the 600/smite hm solo? Now the smiters are getting killed and messing up solo runs since to 600 doesn't have res, etc. Anyone know anything about this? Or what can be used to stop this. Is this a bug or a new update to the skill unposted once again? --Lyf 10:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20080212 AshleyS  (talk•contribs) 16:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

What I do as a Smiter to minimize my damage is to use protective spirit whenever the 600 Monk engages a banshee. You'll have to do this quickly before your energy is diminished from maintaining Holy Wrath Workmanp 19:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What type of attributes do you use then? decide to drop light of deldr or do you switch your attributes around? its very frustrating to get killed and then need the bonder to die too... Lyf 1:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

After more testing, I think it's better to take a point from smiting and put it into divine favor. The smiter then can use signet of devotion(drop protective spirit) to get through the rough areas with banshees. Workmanp 17:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * my solution LEET SMITING HENCHMEN, let him have a good skill bar thats offensive-defensive and infinite energy :o maybe he can be a companion :D that be sweet Lost-Blue 05:29, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Buffed??
Would you look at that, a smiting skill got buffed? And I never thought I would live to see the day. - Kalle Damos
 * Use this with Defender's Zeal, Smiter's Boon, Divine Boon and you've got yourself a pretty good PvE monk with decent healing.

As if CoF needed another thing to make it a pain in the ass. Overlord Stan 00:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Might make a harder time killing the Banshees in the Cathedral of Flames -- Fexghadi 00:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * They freaking messed up. With such low recharge it's going to be spammed and then they'll nerf it back to like 8 seconds because people were over-using it. Yeah this needed a buff, but not a buff that in itself is a nerf. Zulu Inuoe 02:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it'll will be that overused, it just makes Divine Favor Smiting Monks viable as a support. It's closer to Reversal of Fortune now. Smiting Prayers now offers a bit of balance between offense, defense (through Smiter's Boon, condition/hex removal...) and damage.
 * If they nerf this, they need to nerf RoF. 66.25.22.44 03:13, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The only problem is that Smiter's Boon with this will be a more reliable source of protection/healing than Reversal of Fortune, even more so with Defender's Zeal and Divine Boon, but then again, you have to devote your whole bar to it. With 15 or 16 Divine Favor and whatever in Smiting, that's a cheap ~150 point heal with ~60 damage reduction.
 * As opposed to the normal, which is 100~ heal, damage prevention, plus access to the rest of the Protection line. This is useful for the gimmick builds (I'm personally really happy with this, as I use a Smiter's Boon healer occasionally myself)... but for straight-up healing, it's still not quite as flexible. Extra damage = good. But it's evened out by Protection and Healing Prayers having so much more utility for healing.
 * Would be cool to start seeing teams using a single Smiter's Boon monk alongside the regular healer... balanced team with a Smiter on it? That's not something you would have been hearing a few months ago. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  03:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Smiting Prayers does have Condition and Hex Removal just like Healing and Protection Prayers, but I guess Smiting Prayers does lack protection (through blocking, armor, healing when taking damage, healing when attacking/casting...) but it could actually replace your Healer in the group, if the healer would have been devoted to straight healing. -Mike 03:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I just like that Healing/Protection has big heals, small heals, condition removal on a fast recharge, multiple hex removals, damage prevention, block chances, and all that. Smiting has just as much diversity, but it's geared more towards damage then defense (i.e., condition removal with +damage, hex removal with +damage, and so on). Both have their benefits, I guess all in all, it's nice to see Smiting get a nice, simple defensive/offensive staple for their bar. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  03:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

This is EXACTLY the change I was proposing on forums. Now to see whether I was right or wrong on this one... On a related note, Smiter's Boon was mathematically useless without this buff. There were no useful fast-recharge skills in the entire Smiting line before it. I tried to work out a nice SB-based build for a full day in RA when Smiter's Boon and Smite Condition came out with EotN, with no success. 91.120.163.214 11:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a result what you get for over-farming certain areas. Other than that, I couldn't care less about this change. J Striker 11:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just what I said before :p -- Fexghadi 12:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ehh, 17 days late, but oh well. If overfarming brings more smite skills, then keep on farming. =)  Oblivions Heart    [[image:Oblivions_Heart_(D-Dag).jpg|20px]] 01:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Smiting Prayers is pretty decent now, it's some little things (like triggering Defender's Zeal, it should be on attack, not hit) that should be changed, and improving the heroes' AI with certain skills (Boon Signet, Smiter's Boon, and Defender's Zeal). -Mike 01:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Reversing Reversal of Damage
If both targets are enchanted with RoD then say character A wands character B then B still takes the damage with both A & B also taking a 0 damage packet. I guess this actually makes sense but I'd never really seen it happen before since RoD isn't exactly the most popular skill out there (except perhaps in the JQ). -arual 15:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The target of the attack (A) will take damage, Reverse it to (B), Who will then reverse it to (A). (A) will take damage in the end.--72.189.82.222 08:48, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't sound like it. Arual makes it sound like he / she has tested it, when you're clearly guessing. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When  Needed  14:28, November 7, 2009 (UTC)