User talk:Gemigemi/Test

Discussion
.__. Death pact signet? &mdash;Blastedt 19:56, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Heroes never have spare energy to use when someone dies, so they need a res with no energy cost. Formerly I've equipped them with both Resurrection Signet and Signet of Return (if skill bar permits both), but I just found this new res with no energy cost, which might actually suit a hero standing behind the party in combat. Thinking about it, the MM hero isn't probably the best to use it though as his death will mean a few angry minions. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 20:12, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Maby an advanced Death Nova tactic? Lol. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 20:14, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

So what help are you looking for? I have limited resources for my MM skills but I always bring Olias along and he performs admirably (of course I'm playing as a supporting Paragon non-stop these days so that helps too).--  Vallen Frostweaver  07:37, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Tips, ideas, comments on my 3 build ideas, ... Anything that will help me to get a great MM build(s) for my heroes. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:20, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Heroes don't use Order of Undeath to good. It's not up even 50% of the time. I personally found an N/Mo (Heal Area) with Offering of Blood and Animate Bone Fiend to work nicely. Yeah, not a "Pure MM", but a hybrid with blood, and it works. Other elites you can use are Order of the Vampire or Blood is Power. Order of Pain is also good, if your party has Physical damage. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 11:09, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sad to hear that about Order of Undeath, but the player is able to manually use it, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem most of the time. Do the other orders, OotV and OoP, work with minions? I suppose not as they mention 'party members', and if they don't I wont really benefit from those skills as I usually have toucher heroes = no damage dealt. The basic N/Mo stuff might be okay, but I'm looking for something honed to perfection. :) And hopefully a bit unique.
 * Any comments on the bomber build? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:10, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Undeath has a 5 sec recharge. To short to manually micro it imho. Order's don't work on minions, that would be overkill. They're meant to be a party support. If you touch everything drop them ^^
 * It's hard to hone a MM. Some things just don't stick on heroes. Minion Bombers on heroes are good, since they know what minion is enchanted and enchant the others. Problem is, they also waste time and energy enchanting humans. I don't like Jagged Bones (personal :P). Never tried any minion sacrificing skill, so n/c on that. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 12:35, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok, I'll just need to test it myself then. I quickly tried the bomber today and it seemed to work ok, though I didn't have too much time to watch what the hero was doing. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:19, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * And that's the problem with making hero builds ^^ Also yet another reason to not have a skill that requires manual activations :P &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:46, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:08, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Ok, I've been testing the bomber build with my necromacers Olias while playing the first few missions of the game (Yeh, hunting the protector title). It seems to work, but I'm not sure if he uses Putrid Flesh as often as he should. I'll need to test with higher level enemies though. -- (gem / talk) 22:11, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Dervish Secondary
Hey, just wanted to point out that I have had success using Dervish secondary on my MM hero, going with Blood of the Master, Infuse Condition, Dark Bond, and Mystic Regeneration as a starting template. I use this base of skills with Flesh Golem and a choice of one or 2 other animate skills. I know there are other wiki users who also swear by /D on a hero MM. I also use this same base of skills for an Order of Undeath build on my own necro, but I don't have experience with how well that elite is used by a hero. -- BrianG 14:28, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks, I'll think about N/Dm though I'm not so sure if it fits my playstyle. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:07, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

My build
I run this on Whispers/Olias usually (I think)

&mdash; Skuld 14:37, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Or dump the paragon stuff for Dark Bond and Signet of Lost Souls. That is the best minion choice, the necro uses the skills intelligently, and rotting flesh is a huge source of damage. Stand Your Ground helps survive heavy pressure if required, and fall back is mainly for laziness, running between groups; but it also has a useful side effect for minions on the move. &mdash; Skuld 14:39, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Can't you think up a better thing for the elite slot besides a big meet shield that creates a big number every 3 seconds? :P &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 15:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There isn't anything better, flesh golems are a lot of damage and very sturdy. &mdash; Skuld 15:58, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There aren't many MM elites, sadly. Flesh Golem seems like the best choice unless the build is specifically built around another elite.
 * Thanks for the build idea Skuld, I'll think about it. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:09, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Blood is Power, Offering of Blood, Order of the Vampire, Aura of the Lich, Tainted Flesh, Icy Veins... there's a lot of "better" elites. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 16:37, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't need taint, or BiP, AotL is useless, i'm using 1 physical so im not gonna bring OoV, heroes don't use icy veins, OoB is a waste - enough stuff dying already &mdash; Skuld 01:53, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

try something with AotL + Mystic regen + conviction + dark bond. my heroes use it pretty well.--Coloneh RIP 00:49, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Disease
You'll have to watch the disease from putrid flesh when you verse humanoid mobs as this degen will spread back to you + allies. Haven't looked into alternatives --Atroso 08:47, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's true. Luckily only a few areas in any campaign have human enemies, and none of those are too bad to defeat. Disabling the skill against those enemies might save some time though. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:49, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Run LoD as standard and you're fine &mdash; Skuld 09:42, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

where are the interrupts?
Don't you know, every spellcaster hero has to have either Power Drain or Leech Signet or both! ;) No, seriously, all of mine have them - monks, necros, eles... They can't really use them effectively (as in targeting priority spells only), but the sheer number and their insane reflexes make up for that. with only a couple of points in inspiration they give a little energy management, too! On another note, I personally don't like Death Nova on MM heroes. Not a bad skill, per-se, the problem is that heroes try to constantly keep it up on all their minions, resulting in them lagging behind when I travel around. Often I have to force them to catch up and actually join the battle by flagging them. --84-175 (talk) 09:31, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm, I never thought about the miracilous interruption abilitied of heroes. Though I'll probably utilise the secondary profession for my MMs, so I can't take mesmer skills.
 * Death Nova does indeed pose a small problem. I suggest disabling it when not in combat. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:37, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Where's Aura of the Lich?
AotL+BotM spam = awesome. Of course, on a hero MM, you'll have to do the work for him. Consider this:

Basically it's team friendly MM; BR, cannon-fodder-minions+DN, and mostly automatic except for BotM spam. Of course, with AotL, it's best not to use it in areas you expect lots of degen. --8765 13:48, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm, what's the point in healing your minions and using Death Nova at the same time? This might be a stupid question, but I don't get it. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 13:51, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's way more flexible that way. If you need meat shields while your team takes down key targets, BotM spam. If your MM is maxed on minions, don't BotM spam and let him run on auto. If you're traveling to the next mob, BotM semi-spam (slower, but at least you'll have max minions starting the next mob). Btw, Nova bombing is NOT a good way to deal dmg to specific targets (which is very important around torment creatures), since the minions are usually all over the place. --8765 13:59, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Dont know why, but AotL shouldn't be on Hero. They dont know where to activate it and sometimes my Olias/Master of Whispers enchants himself while under 50% hp... One hit and KO. Flesh Golem is better, or Reaper's Mark. I wonder, when they will make heroes able to maintain healing of minions or re-activating spells like Attunements... - [[Image:Zealous_Vow.jpg|19px]] (Abedeus) 16:42, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I've never seen the hero kill itself with AotL under 50%. You could always disable it and manually run it. It lasts long enough so you'll only need to select it before the battle. If you want to stack it, that works too. --8765 22:35, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I use N/D on mine
Here his skill bar right now:

Readem (talk *contribs ) 14:21, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

My fav MM builds so far
Death Magic: 16 (12+3+1), Soul Reaping: 12 This first one is N/Me, and the AI is nothing short of amazing with it... Heroes are very good at using BotM (never give them Heal Area) to keep up minions, and also Taste of Pain (not Death, Pain :p) and SoLS to keep themselves at full. Not to mention the way they know when any condition is applied to any enemy in range - they'll Virulence and Epidemic so that everything nearby has 4 conditions stacked on them before you realize someone had 1 to begin with. Just don't use this vs. human enemies, or you'll be enjoying the Disease, too.

Death Magic: 16 (12+3+1), Soul Reaping: 10, Earth Prayers: 8 This N/D MM is more complicated, but definitely my favorite if you don't mind babysitting the AI a bit. AotL = 1/4 sacrifices, and when combined with Dark Bond also reduces damage taken by 87.5%. Mystic Regeneration offers +12 health regen while your 4 enchantments are up, and Infuse Condition gives you 'immunity' to conditions (redirects to minions, but the most common - disease, poison, bleeding, dazed - have no affect on them). This build is a bit more energy-intensive, but I still manage to keep up 10 fiends as well as my enchantments, despite the changes to Soul Reaping. Tain 12:50, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

N/Mo general MM build
=gg. Master of Whispers doesn't seem to have too much energy problems, and you can drop blood even more if you feel like it. I've done it with 1+2, though I listed it here sans runes because I figure you, like me, probably don't feel like running around getting runes for all my heroes. (Master got the major blood because I didn't have room in my storage. That's his only rune. I think I may have given him a radiant insignia, though...)

If you find you're having energy problems, switch to 12DM-10SR-8HP-2BM.

It's a very basic build, but it works the pants off the enemies. --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:34, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks for another nice MM build. I'll be testing all of the suggestions later on when I'm tired to hard mode and the new titles.
 * And I do equip my heroes with perfect insignia and rune sets, even though sup death magic rune + bloodstained insignia cost almost 20k total. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:36, 21 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You're a richer man than I, then. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:30, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

OoU Vamp MM
some guy on the OoU talk page did all this math and stuff and showed that vamp minions with OoU do LESS DAMAGE THAN BONE FIENDS ALONE (i.e. with no OoU)... generaly using OoU with vamps is just pointless and retarded Echo ftw 19:44, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh. Thanks. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:45, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, they still heal you and our close combat instead of ranged so they act as a better meat wall, so I don't think that they are outright worse. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:47, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * true... but in terms for raw damage vamps with OoU is not the way to roll Echo ftw 19:51, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * True. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 02:01, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

Just sharing my MM
I've been messing about with my MM hero a lot and found something that tends to work pretty good so far. Though it is a split build of sorts it tends to work much better than I expected. I tried several variants on 4 man (me and 3 heroes) runs and found this to work the best so far. Of course this works well in Normal mode but I doubt the AoE will be as nice in Hard Mode. I leave him on Defense mode though or he tends to run into the front line. Only drawback I found so far is that he doesn't spam BotM enough so I tend to help at times.
 * N/E Death 16, Curses 11, Soul Reaping 9

I'm thinking of switching out Insidious Parasite with Meekness but so far it's been a really good self heal for my MM hero and he can run away/around and be healed at the same time. He does well at the beginning of a zone too with the extra curses. It does seem a strange attribute spread and skill selection but hey, it works pretty good for him and the minions stay alive much longer for some reason (not to mention that the enemy dies faster too).

I even tried replacing him with an Ele hero but this build totally made the group survive better with a minion wall and the curses helped offset the AoE damage an Ele might do. Playing a paragon that spams "Go for the Eyes!" really does add to the damage those minions do and "Fall Back!" is a great skill for minions since it speeds them and heals them while running (which a typical MM can't do) allowing the MM to regen energy between battles. Anyway, hope you like it and that it works good for you too. --  Vallen Frostweaver  08:56, 3 May 2007 (CDT)