User talk:Jatara/buildsarchive/Build:A/D Dark Shadow Forge Runner

Discussion
I have successfully made the Drok's run with this build about 5 times now. Ultimate success and ease of run based on lucky spawns is probably about the same as with any other running build. I have a video of me completing the run and will upload it to Google shortly, if I decide to not refilm it, as I got pretty sloppy in many sections (I had just woken up 5 minute prior to starting the run). However, I believe the mistakes I made show how effective the build can be even when errors occur. I look forward to hearing any comments :) Insidious420 14:49, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Before the AI update, this would have worked very well, now I am not so sure. People say they get chased forever by the AI, the whole idea of Shadow Form is to run past a hard area with immunity, then get to a safe area and repeat. If you are chased forever, your Shadow Form will leave you with 40-50 health and something hits you and you're dead. I doubt Heart of Shadow will save you. --arth 14:44, 12 December 2006 (CST)


 * Prior to the last patch, this build relied mostly on luck solely for the reason you stated above: mobs following you forever.  However, if this build is played smart, Shadow Form is only necessary a few times through Lornar's Pass.  Dark Escape (1/2 damage from all sources), plus Heart of Shadow, plus Feigned Neutrality is actually enough to heal sufficiently after Shadow Form ends.  I have a video uploaded to Google, just waiting for it to get accepted now, I will post the link shortly :) - Insidious420 15:17, 19 December 2006 (CST)

This build is so powerful it's unfair. Shadow Form for hexes, Fleeting Stability for knockdown, everything else is just the wonder of assassin running and survival. Basically all my favorite running skills rolled into one package. I just never practiced Drok's with it, because the "follow forever" bug made Shadow Form rather dangerous. Tried it again today, loved it. This could probably be modified to run almost anything that another build can run. Skyreal 19:37, 24 December 2006 (CST)

Have to say that its a very good/easy spawn u have there ..i realy wanna see a succeded run in a "hard/bad spawn", where imps are more spread out(not standing in small clusters easy to pass!) ..a more realistic/commen spawn!
 * Yes, it is one of the easier spawns possible through Lornar's Pass, but it's certainly not the only spawn/attempt I recorded for the movie, I just chose this one because it was the quickest and I was trying to cut the overall movie length to ~10 mins to post it on Youtube instead of Google. But until I feel like compiling another movie (if ever, it's time consuming), you'll just have to take my word for it that you can run most of the spawns with this build, with enough practice, and with enough skill. Maybe I'm just extremely lucky with spawns, but I've done this run probably about 20-30 times successfully now, and rarely die; out of those runs I would approximate I died & had to restart the run maybe 5 or 6 times. I used to run Drok's constantly with my Warrior, and not to sound cocky or anything, I learned the run & spawns very well and could probably run it as good as the best runner. After one of the many nerfs to the run, every spawn was not possible to solo. Now, a Warrior basically cannot run Drok's at all. Dervishes are probably the best Drok's runners now, but I don't have a Dervish, which is why I came up with this build. Once I got comfortable with this build, the run feels exactly the same to me (difficulty, lucky spawns, etc) as it was with my Warrior. The probability of success far outweighs that of failure, and I wouldn't have posted the build if that wasn't true. Ultimately, I only made this build to get my own 'sin to Drok's and I accomplished that, and have shared it for other people in similar situations, but it's also good for making lots of gold on the side :) - Insidious420 18:44, 17 January 2007 (CST)

After the new temperary update(specialy for skills)i found Heart of Shadow optimized.. Heart of Shadow: increased healing to 30...150 - means that it is increased from 122hp up to 158hp due to this build. I also wonder if Pious Haste(who's now incresed to 33% ..25% before) could be an option(used in the rigth combination) together with Shadow Form?!? ..swich with Dash or what?

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Please do not vote on a build until you have actually tested it.''

Favoured:
 * 1) I watched Video and have been running droks forever on a warrior. This looks to be solid and even with the errors it works fine.  Also because of a recent update enemies can no longer "forever follow".  Whats best about this build is if you get body blocked you can heart our. very Favoured NamShub 02:37, 22 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) ''He ran me in real life and hes really good. Favored
 * I just had to comment on this one, he "ran you irl"? :D -Ichigo724 12:03, 22 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) Definitely favoured. The one weakness is there is no condition removal, but the strength of the build in the hands of the master is undeniable. I followed him through a run just to see for myself. Currently practicing to increase my own success rate with this. Skyreal 19:30, 24 December 2006 (CST)
 * 2) With all these new skills, the drok run is just soo easy now, especially compared to what it used to be. I've basically ditched my warrior running build through droks for my dervish and this.  The only thing is the timing of shadow form, but an experienced drok runner knows all about timing anyway-- Lania Elderfire 12:45, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * 3) Havnt attempted the run before, I swapped out Heart of Shadow for Vital Boon, struggled in Lornars Pass, but overall, did nicely. Kamer 22:17, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * 4) I used this build on my D/A and had alot of success. The only problem I can see is how hard lornar's pass can be on this build. Sadly, "A/D Dark Shadow Forge Runner" requires good spawns.Belgianbronco 10:27, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 5) I have no idea why this can be considered unreliable, even after the deadly paradox "fix". I've had two level 12 A/D's run Droks easily and plenty other assassins as well as myself that run it fine. All you need is an attribute adjustment and swap out deadly paradox for another running skill. --NYC Elite 18:21, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Unfavoured:
 * 1) The build itself is so unfinished. What a waste of attribute points, if you are only using Fleeting Stability @ 12 from the Dervish Earth skills. There can be assembled a much better, more reliable build. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 17:43, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Wow, harsh. Did you watch the video or try the build, or did you just look at the numbers? The build is more reliable than you may think. 12 points in Earth Prayers is not a waste - it maximizes Fleeting Stability's length, which you NEED for almost the entire run. Fleeting Stability happens to be the best anti-knockdown skill for this build, and I'm sorry that it is the only Derv skill worth putting on the bar (believe it or not, I experimented a lot, specifically for a replacement for Dash). If there were no knockdowns throughout the whole run, I could run Drok's even faster with points only in Shadow Arts -- would 16 points in only Shadow Arts be a waste too? The skills and attributes are there out of necessity. Give some constructive criticism, suggestions, or "assemble a much better, more reliable build" and share it. AFAIK, this is the fastest (only?) way for a 'sin to solo run Drok's.... - Insidious420 22:12, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * The build is not as reliable as it could be. Of course, you do need Fleeting Stabililty. And believe me, it is not the only Dervish skill worth using ... Replacing Dash wouldn't be good anyway because Dash is your only anti-trap measurement as Sin(-> It prevents igniting traps while 'dashing' over them). &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 07:02, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Dash doesnt prevent traps from triggering.
 * Whoever wrote that Dash doesn't prevent traps from triggering is wrong. You can 'dash' over traps without igniting them. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 16:12, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * Luobailong is right, Dash does prevent traps which is useful, but I mentioned finding a replacement for it because it is just as easy to avoid traps altogether. The only thing I use Dash for is to put distance between chasing enemies and to use when Dark Escape runs out for a slight overall increase in speed. It's force of habit for me now to use Dash whenever possible, so yeah for various reasons, it won't leave the skillbar. - Insidious420 13:49, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Tried it, hated it. I've been making runs for a while on better builds. What, by the way, is the point of taking Assasin as primary? When are you going to use critical strikes during a run, as opposed to Mysticism, which will let you gain health and energy when enchantments end? Not that useful, yes, but more useful than taking Assassin as primary. That aside, this build has some nice things about it but is otherwise kind of useless.
 * The sole reason for this build is if you don't have another character class capable of making the run (mainly a Dervish, since it's near impossible for Warriors to run this now) -- I only made the build so I could run my 'sin to Droks for free :) Obviously Critical Strikes is useless like you pointed out, but 16 points in Shadow Arts for long-term invulnerability through Shadow Form is far from useless and is impossible with an Assassin secondary class. Shadow Form is the key to the build and arguably better than Vow of Silence. I agree with you it's not easy at first running Drok's with a sin, but with practice it can get remarkably easy and more controllable. I would disagree though that this build is mostly useless - I've made easily 200k doing Drok's runs and I've run the whole Southern Shiverpeaks tour with it. --Insidious420 01:05, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) i dont think this really works anymore, no offense, because now u cant keep up dark escape indefinentally(i dont think thats spelled right lol)Thesavvymage 19:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Variants
Okay lets talk about the variants of this build. I side-ran my Dervish with an Assassin with the SAME skills but a change in profession and 1 skill. She used this:

A/W

She changed From Earth Prayers to Tactics. She never died and was a pro at it too.


 * I also tried A/W with Balanced Stance, but I didn't like not having a speed buff simultaneously with an anti-knockdown, hence my use of Fleeting Stability, especially through the Snake Dance giants. However, the main positive aspect of Balanced Stance would be eliminating the need to use Shadow Form through the Wurm cave (to prevent avicara from stripping Fleeting Stability), and making the exit from the cave that much easier, only using Shadow Form if there are Ice Golems outside the cave. I think A/W would be a little slower than A/D, but probably a bit safer. I'm surprised to see someone's tried running Drok's with an Assassin; until I came up with this build, I hadn't seen a single Assassin in Beacon's Perch doing runs :) I don't have a Dervish, but so far I think Assassin is the easiest way to solo run Drok's now.


 * True. But she used Shadow Form When she got to the Ice Golems.
 * The benefit of Fleeting stability is that it is an enchantment, not a stance. With balanced stance, you aren't going to be able to use any of your running stances at the same time.---Milgram

A/D with Pious Light

I've been using Signet of Pious Light instead of Feigned Neutrality. I must give thanks and some credit to Skyreal for talking with me after a run and experimenting with some ideas a week or two ago. I like Pious Light much more than Feigned Neutrality because you can end Shadow Form whenever you want and get a huge heal (especially if used twice in a row). It's also a better spot-heal since it's not an enchantment that can be stripped. - Insidious420 01:37, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Same attributes as main build.

A/D

I've used this Variation sense before the nurfing. it works well with all parts of the run except on the first turn though the Frost Wurms. I have yet to get it down just right. I never liked the whole Deadly Paradox/Dark Escape idea, Takes to much energy normally, And you can't really use dash for escape on account of not having another run skill to use. But to be fair I've only made it once. - User:Kael Drake 08:27, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Natures own light
This build is risky.

i have come across a much better way

switch dash and death charge for signet of pious light and vital boon,

use vital after sf.

you should end shadow form with a extra hp boost of 175 hp


 * My problem with this is that with Vital Boon up, you cannot end Shadow Form with Signet of Pious Light whenever you want to. Plus, I think dropping Death's Charge for Vital Boon decreases your efficiency to quickly cover distance. I like Death's Charge, because as Shadow Form ends, you can use it to heal and cover distance. However, with perfect timing, it could be possible to use Pious Light so that Shadow Form ends while Pious Light is still activating, so Pious Light would end Vital Boon and trigger both skills' healing effect for a gain of 102 + 175 = 277 health. I guess it's personal preference. - Insidious420 14:05, 16 January 2007 (CST)

You need 12 earth with 16 shadow arts

Don't worry about useing pious lihgt to actually rip the vital boon. Juts use it straight after vital boon. You still get the health. Just takes longer to recharge.

DP>SF>VB(Shadow Form and Vital boon) -- SoPL>SoPL(remove both ench = 58hp)>VB>SoPL>SoPL* ..it should bring u back to full HP in seconds(and SoPL twice is actualy "overheal" - hit SoPL once and u r close to full hp) - if u like(in a mob), follow up with HoS>DP>DE ..and u should be on ur way.--Looses 21:38, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * SoPL recharge immediately when u remove an enchantment

Attention maker of build... Feigned Neutrality or what ever its called is a must. Its the topping on the cake bro. Gets you out of danger and past tundras.
 * I have bullying the hole prophesies-map without Dash and Feigned Neutrality(used SoPL and VB instead) in less than 3 houers and have to say that i never had any problem ..i was tank'ing trough the hole mob ;) --Looses 10:53, 25 January 2007 (CST)

This build nerfed?
With Anets "fix" to Deadly Paradox's functionality, Dark Escape doesn't recharge quickly enough anymore. Does this meant this build is dead? Or can we still save it?

Thats what i was wondering. Since the large benefit of this build was the "always +25% run speed" we might have to do some alterations to it. Stupid Anet...---Not So Koolaid 12:43, 3 February 2007 (CST)

The new Deadly Paradox definetly hurts the build, but I was just toying around with attributes and skills and have possible substitutions. Drop Earth Prayers from 12 to 10, and put those points into Wind Prayers to 8. Switch Dash or Heart of Shadow for Harrier's Haste or possibly Featherfoot Grace and use it when Dark Escape fades out. I like Harrier's Haste better because it's a stance, so you don't have to stop to activate it, but Featherfoot Grace lasts longer, especially with a +20% enchants mod. I think it's also a good idea to switch Signet of Pious Light for Pious Restoration for a more frequent heal, and hex removal if needed & used right. I haven't tried the run with this setup yet, but I think it should work. It will take a little more thought and timing like this to use Dark Escape when it's needed for damage reduction, but I think it's still possible. --Insidious420 02:12, 4 February 2007 (CST)

I was the one who said the build got nerfed, and u probably know why, the solution to this problem is possibly (i tested a lot of skills in place of Deadly Paradox and Dash with no success):

Send a email to ArenaNet to change Deadly Paradox's settings, because now it became (in my opinion) the most useless skill for the Assassin. For this i wanted to ask all players who use assassins and mostly users that use this build to came with new settings that insures the viability of this skill.


 * The normal setting of the Deadly Paradox is:
 * Stance. All of your attack Skills are disabled for 10 seconds. For 5...13 seconds, your Assassin Skills activate and recharge 50% faster
 * Possible settings are:
 * Skill. All of your attack Skills are disabled for 10 seconds. If another Skill is Activated, For 5...13 seconds, that Assassin Skill recharge 50% faster > This setting maybe is too much for a low cost skill.
 * Stance. All of your attack Skills are disabled for 10 seconds. If another Stance is Activated, For 5...13 seconds, that Assassin Stance recharge 50% faster > This is the best settings i came up for this stance and it would make this skill useful on other possible builds for PvP, etc...
 * Please reply with your opinions and possible settings. SiLentStorm 12:05, 12 February 2007 (CST)

imho,deadly paradox nerf don't hurt the build so much. Yesterday i ran about 6-7 times form beacon to droks with the original build(with dash and paradox)and never died. Dash is too useful..just use it always(keep DE for the largest mobs),and you'll never be in trouble. Don't use Signet of Pious Light,is useless,just spam Heart of Shadow,and use feigned when you are under ranged attack or degen. This build can run the southern shiverpeaks too,so still owns at running ;)--Thiag 04:37, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Im running it with shadow form, deadly paradox, harriers haste, dash, feigned neutrallity, heart of shadow, fleeting stability and dark escape. Last week i runned to droks 10 times and i failed only once. No need for dash, or that signet. Dash helps you to not trigger traps, but you can always predict where they are, signet doesn't help you, becuse you have heart of shadow for fast healing and feigned neutrallity if everything goes wrong. Btw, i was racing with warrior, ranger and dervishes, and i've beaten them.

Hmm I am trying to get my assassin to run herself from beacons to THK and I am trying this build... I have not been able to pass the first area because it always seems like the enchant removal and the timing with the skills are off. This might be because of the nerf on DP but is there a skill bar I can see that is working NOW as opposed to before? Thanks in advance --Saji-Kun 08:14, 13 March 2007 (CDT) Man, this build with signet of light and stuff is shit. Why? Cuse you don't have harrier's haste. And that makes you running normal without speed boost for 8 seconds totally when dark escape and dash are recharging. shadow form, deadly paradox, harriers haste, dash, feigned neutrallity, heart of shadow, fleeting stability and dark escape <- with this build i have lately 90% success. you just need to practice a bit

This is not nerfed. A lvl 12 A/D can do Droks run. --Swift Thief 22:35, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I remember hearing somebody talk about that lvl 12 dude. Anyways the build is still completely successful, I've run with it about 4 times today. People who aren't able to run with it just haven't practiced, this build recquires constant focus and not just pressing buttons like many of the other running builds seen today. My favorite part of using this build is when you magically completely recover in an enemy infested area when SF wears off. It's like POW! (paradox,charge,heart,escape,feigned!) 5 seconds later you haven't lost any speed and are invulnurable (SF up again) with a recovery of over 250+ hp. Fun stuff! -Isidore