Talk:Zaishen title track

Oh come on Anet, original naming structure? Random Time  20:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

stupid
This is such a bad idea. People are just going to buy keys and get the title. Its a rank emote for a bought title. It would be a great idea if you got a title for amount of balthazar faction earned instead because thats something that a player actually earned. That shows true devotion to the Zaishen. The best part about a Balthazar faction title is that it would be retroactive because we already keep track of how much faction you earned. Seriously, if I get ranked by this I'm just going to assume its some PvE scrub and laugh at them. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 20:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree Random Time  21:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * One point per 1k balth faction earned is the same as the keys, would be retroactive, and people wouldn't be buying the title. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 21:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

wtb 20000 zaishen keys /zrank ~mike.
 * And if I get ranked by this, I will respond with a tiger. Whee. Although I'll probably end up getting at least r9 of this eventually... [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 22:06, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Buy this track now for the low, LOW price of only 40,000,000-60,000,000. Want to reek of desperation? Do asian gold farming services know you on a first name basis? Then this my friend is the title track for you! /sarcasm lol.  Much much respect for the PvPers who actually have to earn emotes, and I don't even PvP! 76.20.243.50 22:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * HOW FUCKING GAY IS THIS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? LegendaryWalter 23:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My least favorite part is that the pve players who farm and bot are going to be able to emote on peoples' bodies just to be douches the few times they get kills in pvp. ANet just added the next generation of online tea-bagging. Demonic Peaches 01:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As if /fame wasn't enough... --GW-Seventh 14:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * this is a pve title and a way 2 earn money for pvpers --88.209.222.162 20:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

This whole Zaishen Keys thing is stupid I must agree 75.18.186.8 16:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Retroactive?
Does this count past chest opens? Juraigamer 21:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't think so Random Time  21:06, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It does not. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 21:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Pfff, they should had given the Glad title track (or a balthazar title track) an emote... this one sucks. 77.163.111.161 21:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 21:10, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Or Kurz/Lux gogogo. Can still be HFFed, but doesn't scream "BUY ME!" like this title does. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 21:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

AGREED. Why can't they introduce emotes for gladiator/balthazar/gamer/kurxon etc. At least those can't be farmed easily. A title that can be bought is just silly.218.186.13.3 11:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, if they are going to introduce a new title, for something that has been around for a while, they should give you credit for past chests opened. Just like the Luxon/Kurzick titles, a few friends and i got royally screwed over with the intro of that title, because we used to AB hardcore, and then got tired of it, then it became a title. So i think you should get past credit. but w/e.--Pendulous Assassin 22:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Its impossible to make it retroactive because the game doesn't keep track of how many times you've opened the chest. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 23:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I wish they made ir retroactive..because about a month ago, i used about 700k on keys..a little annoying..luckily i got a voltaic though..

It is my deduction that this is a faction title yes? Same everything except point requirements as both the Luxon and Kurzick faction titles. To solve the retroactive problem that many of us have, why not have your lifetime Balthazar points affect this title somehow? I know that Guild Wars has not been keeping track of how many keys I have used, so this seems like a fair change for both the pvp and pve community. Juraigamer 02:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Math?
Am I doing something wrong? For Rank 12, you'd need to open the chest 20,000 times. One key = 5,000 faction. 20,000 chests x 5,000 faction... do they really expect players to earn a hundred million faction? Vehemoth 21:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing they're assuming people get the keys from not the sole source of balth faction, but from tournament reward points and halls chest as well.--76.175.215.180 21:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a beauty pagent! 21:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You forget that they also raised the reward points for GvG/HB tournies, and those reward points can also be used to buy keys. The easiest way to get these keys is to be good at HB and enter lots of tournies, or have a great guild.- 69.115.13.91 22:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * People aren't good at HB, they are good at copying.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 22:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

oops, wrong section, removed Juraigamer 04:11, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Emotes
So do we want to throw the pictures of each rank on here or just note that the link has pictures of each emote?-- 23:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just link to them, imo. --Shadowcrest  00:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

the emotes look quite good in my opinion J1j2j3 06:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Wanna know what really annoys me about this?
I know that this is a rank that can easily be bought, and that has been the main complaint so far. However, emotes are meant for PvPers, and people who only PvP (like me) do not really have any cash because they...PvP. This means that all of the PvEers that DO have money can buy the title. IMO, this is an insult to the PvP community. CorrectJeans 23:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And 90% of all nerfs in the history of GW have been a insult to PVE as they are nerfing a problem in PVP and ignoring the PVE problems they cause. Why do you think that only pvpers should be the ones to have title emotes anyways. This is simply another title not to respect, like Commander.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 23:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have any idea how expensive this title track would be if you purely bought the keys? They are 5k each. That's like a hundred million k or some other really big number to max it out.&mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 00:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They're 2.5-3k each, actually. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They're actually 5k each now. ICY  F IFT Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  00:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 100,000,000 gold at that price, though I have seen them selling in the 6-10k/ea range which would make it more like...120,000,000-200,000,000. 76.20.243.50 01:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Pfft, I wouldn't pay 5k. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I am also one of those pure pvp'ers and I like it as I can sell my zaishen keys to idiots how want an idiotic title that means nothing. Which means I can finally get some money. And as reaction on Alari... The game is made for pvp, not for pve. PvE is made around PvP. The real insult is that they are going to set PvP behind the changed skills after this, instead of PvE. We PvPers have suffered enough of the PvEers complaining about skill balances. If you want to grind/farm stuff go play WoW. And pvpers should be the only ones with title emotes as they are the only ones who deserve something like that. So summery. Just laugh at the people with this title and know the pvpers made lots of money, because of those fools. Syarco


 * Better summary: It's a game. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 09:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The game itself is made for PvE and PvP. But, the skill balances and shit is biased to PvP. I dont complain ,cause PvE is easy anyways. NF in 3 days? Sure. Why not. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 09:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The game is NOT made for pvp, out of the last 4 releases(campaigns, eotn, bmp) only 3 new pvp features were added; CMs, ABs and hero battles, and AB/CM are nearly the same thing, none are even considered high end in most circles. And the amount of effort that went into pve during the last three releases greatly outweighs the effort put into PVE, even if the dev team seems to care more about PVP now.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 20:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Alari your ignorance bemuses me.. Anet have shown no involvement in PvP focus and if they had this wouldn't be soem pathetic buyable title. Also Commander title is hardly disreagarded... you try top 100 HB and see how you fai, not v. well by the sounds of it. PvE is much more highly regarded than PvP. As I mostly play HB I can tlak about this from a Hero standpoint. All the Hero Updates Anet have released have been to resolve skill issues used by pVE players, never once has a fix been made to solve any PvP issues. Also the new way Anet are going to do skill balance with PvE and pvP versions of skills just shows to me that any pathetic qualms ignorant players like you have can be tossed aside. 82.32.64.95 (Rainbow)
 * Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. Most skill fixed are done because of PvP imbalance. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  16:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think this for Hb ltp.. srsly not been fixed for over a year now. Oh btw, Pvp imbalance is fixed because it's worth fixing, PvE is piss easy, no skill needed tbh, jsut take right h/h set-up and can beat any campaign about 10 hours, its really not hard at all.82.32.64.95
 * Of course it's not for HB. And you're contradicting yourself; you talk about how all the fixes are for PvE, then go on about how it's so easy (it is). PvE is more played I guess, but PvP is most definitely higher on the priority list. --<font face="vivaldi" syouize="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  16:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, and PvE Imbaness (read: Ursan) is wai too hard to fix? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 16:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Anon, all PVP is not the cesspool of HB, if you ever stopped calling people ignorant maybe you would see that much over half of all updates have had a focus on PVP events/issues.
 * Also, attacking me by calling me ignorant and saying I can't play is a clear violation of GW:NPA, and it doesn't make your point look better.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 17:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * shove ur NPA up ur arse... srsly get over it; it's the internet. 82.32.64.95
 * So you have to resort to insults? Your argument has just been proven void, as well as your credibilty on this topic. I'm not bringing anything up or starting anything, just saying what is there, what you have done. Do us a favour, and shut up. King Neoterikos 01:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I will never understand why people think PvP is somehow more high-class than PvE. GW PvP is totally imbalanced and based solely in Meta. The Max PvP titles and the Max PvE titles take an equally long time to grind, and thats all either of them are is a grind. Personally I liked both at one point or another, but I feel like GW has been on a serious decline since Nightfall and the idea of playing in PvE or PvP for anywhere near long enough to get this title makes me wanna vomit. I can understand why kids and really casual gamers need to feel like they are somehow better than other players, and so tout thier PvP or PvE preferences.......... I will always have more "respect" for the PvE titles though, they reflect mastery of not just killing things but also of money management, understanding of the game, economic mastery, math and thought. It is not surprising to me that GW2 is going to tone down the PvP portions of the game, because they are, after all, much smaller and appeal only to a niche crowd. It is true that the PvE in GW is overly simple, but the same can be said for the PvP aspects. I think of GW more as an introductory to gaming that a complete game.
 * It's because PvE in this game is, to put it bluntly, easy. Even the elite areas in hard mode aren't that challenging, and just come down to "how fast can I make it through here" instead of "can I make it through here".  PvP, on the other hand, is always challenging (assuming you're not smurfing), and therefore earns more respect among the player base.
 * "The Max PvP titles and the Max PvE titles take an equally long time to grind, and thats all either of them are is a grind." Uhm, no.  It took 3 years for someone to max the Hero title.  What about Champion, which no one has maxed yet?  But if you look at any PvE title, I assure you there are many who have it, and spent a lot less time maxing it than arguably any one of the PvP titles.
 * "...they reflect mastery of not just killing things but also of money management, understanding of the game, economic mastery, math and thought." Economic mastery?  That equates only to the patience to sit in spamadon for hours on end and scamming people by charging exorbitantly high prices for items.  Mastery of not just killing things?  The PvE titles require grind, not thought, tactics, or anything above the most basic coordination.  To put this disparity of difficulty between PvE and PvP into perspective, any moderately serious PvP players require you to have VoIP (ventrilo, teamspeak, etc.) and a mic just to play with them.  But, you can get the most difficult (i.e. not purchasable) PvE titles (legendary vanquisher?) without even playing with other people, and minimal, usually typed, communication if you are.  To put it simply, PvE's difficulty will never be able to match that of PvP.
 * "It is not surprising to me that GW2 is going to tone down the PvP portions of the game..." Where did you hear this?  AFAIK, only the most basic details of GW2 has been released (basic storyline, races, etc.), and nothing has been said about PvE/PvP balance.  This is complete speculation on your part.  If anything, I would expect them to cater to PvP players, as most other MMORPGs (e.g. WoW) cater to PvE play.
 * "It is true that the PvE in GW is overly simple, but the same can be said for the PvP aspects." PvE in Guild Wars is simple on paper, and simple in actual play.  PvP, on the other hand, looks simple on paper, but is damn hard.  Why can one group, running exactly the same build as another group, consistently beat them?  Skill.  PvE doesn't require nearly as much, and reaps less benefits from slight differences in skill level, whereas in PvP small player skill differences can very easily tip the scales and make the difference between winning and losing.  --GW-Seventh 11:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * In my opinion - GW is 2 games, PvE and PvP - I personally prefer the PvE, but that's probably because I don't have the hours to spend researching builds and getting teams together for high end PvP. I didn't go for titles, as they seem to me to be bragging rights mostly. Again, with a good group, PvE is easier than PvP - however, unless you are in a good guild that wants to PvE, then some of the hard mode missions are extremely hard in a PUG, or with heroes/henchies. Teamwork is important in both aspects, it's just that you are forced to use teamwork in PvP, whereas a relatively skilled player can solo NM (and some of HM) with heroes/henchies. Most PvE does not have Vent or TS (Anet really needs to go the EQ2 route and put VOIP in-game).
 * I was under the impression that GW2 was to have realm v realm. This should be fun, but I don't know about the team communication aspect (think back to your last AB, with people running around all over the place, and the annoying person on teamchat telling you to "Cap" constently. Also, WoW has an arena style PvP, which is tacked on to the game, unlike GW, where PvP is much better managed. I agree with your "PvE doesn't require as much skill, and reaps less benefits. A UW run may still succeed with someone AFK or dead half the time. I think i've just reiterated points, and I haven't bothered to proofread this.-- <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  11:30, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Join the club
OK. Its a little extreme and you can edit the page to tone it down if you want, but here is the club page I made: The no zaishen emote club. I really don't care about the title track, but I don't think that it should have an emote. CorrectJeans 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. I rewrote the page. I just didn't know what to say on my first run through, but I still feel that it should have more information on it. Additions are appreciated. CorrectJeans 00:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The page claims to be empty. :( Personally, I'm surprised no one has made a userbox about this yet. 71.189.134.144 05:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Errr. The page isn't empty, and the page also has a userbox on it. The userbox is also seen here. CorrectJeans 15:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could join my club, the zaishen emote club, co everyone likes a choice ;)--<font color="#FF1493">Cloud <font color="Blue">dyl 15:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh now it works. Before it was claiming the page was empty. Nice page, BTW. 71.189.134.144 22:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Soo...
I used 800k on Zaishen keys and the May 8th update comes along. /looksatalltheQQ /continueslivinglife. BTW, winning the GvG monthly would give you enough Tourney reward points to buy 900 Zkeys which equals 4500 Z-points meaning r5 Zaishen-rank. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 00:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. So if I want this rank easily I need to join You Failed, Rebels Rising or a guild of the sort? CorrectJeans 00:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and get 1st place in the GvG monthly. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 00:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Farming Zaishen [keys] :) <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  00:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. My friends in Dark Alley have gotten r6+ from only the reward points/zaishen keys they already had. [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 00:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You have friends in Dark Alley? O.o CorrectJeans 00:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have friends in Dark Alley. Doesn't everyone? :O [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 01:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Jeans, you might have overlooked the fact that I'm indisputably awesome. [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 01:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ruricu was running flags before he could crawl, you know. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I think the 4.5k reward points could be better used to get FoW/15k + tormented PvP equipment. Looking epic in PvP>lolfail emote. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 01:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be more cost-effective to sell the zkeys you get and then buy the actual gear on a pve. Not to mention you could also get the special gloves, too. [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 01:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds epic. But I like being un-cost-effective. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 05:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

HoM Requirement
So, what level of this title is needed to place it in the HoM, tier 1, tier 3? Should be noted in the article if someone knowns. TK Hawkins
 * Probably 4 like the alliance titles.
 * Alright, I'm coming back to this. What is the requirement for the HoM for this title?  This is not a forum people, this is a place to discuss the wiki article.  And this is a semi-important fact that should be placed on the page. Somebody has to know this, I've seen people with rank 9 already- TK Hawkins May 10, 2008
 * Just edited, requirement is rank 3.

GG
Dumbest idea ever.

- You can purchase this title, essentially. - This will flood RA/TA (and possibly HA) with even more newb who are searching for a way to get another title. - Too easy to get. You could do Zaishen Elite farming several times a day even if you did suck at pvp.

For all of those reasons, I certainly hope they weren't planning on making this into a "status" title such as the Hero title set.

End of rant. Sorry. ;P Rue Bemeria 02:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Firstly, buying it would cost a stupid amount of cash. Only dedicated farmers could possibly afford that. As a second point, they can only buy if someone else is selling, so no matter what, someone has to be earning the keys. Flooding RA/TA/HA, yeah, but is that a bad thing? for experienced teams it means easy first round wins, for people who aren't experienced it means they might get someone their own level to fight and that's how you learn. Farming Zaishen for this title? You get 2k from normal and an extra 4k from Elite; 100,000 points is 100,000,000 faction total. At 6k/day that would only take 45 years to max. Farming Zaishen might get you a few low ranks but if you want to max this you basically need to compete in GvG tournaments (or do some serious HA/ABing) this is not a title for pve players. Sure, you can possibly buy it; for 100,000k. Claiming that it's easy for pve players is like saying that high end GvG or holding Halls is easy. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  03:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice points, was thinking as i read, shit farming ZE would take forever, also, i agree with you about the TA thing, i started pvping on the weekend, so its nice to learn the easy way <font color="#FF1493">Cloud <font color="Blue">dyl 15:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Regarding everyone's comments on how it costs so much money to buy the title, you need to keep in mind that this chest drops items. The process of using 200 keys (for r2) gives you a significantly high probability of getting valuable drops from the chest in the process of gaining your title. So the cost is not nearly as much as you think due to the recursive aspects of opening the chest. And to Rue, if you are so against the title, please join the club that I mentioned above. CorrectJeans 15:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * @Eze: "Firstly, buying it would cost a stupid amount of cash" Unless you dont buy the max rank. I dont know why everyone persumes max rank immediatly... >> --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 15:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * yeah, but its still a fair amount of gold--<font color="#FF1493">Cloud <font color="Blue">dyl 16:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 250k at current key price for R1. Stupid amounts of cash to make a spear fall out of the sky, considering Obsidian(When my Para got it) was 960k(including price of all materials). FoW > More pretigious than falling pieces of metal.--99.225.57.217 18:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Something I heard when this first came out is that if you win a monthly tournament you get enough reward points to reach rank 5 of this title. While the lower ranks can be achieved with cash, zaishen farming, or very limited pvp the higher ranks are only realistically achievable with serious pvp play (I am including extensive AB as serious pvp but even that is very inefficient) The biggest point I'd say though is that pve farmers cannot buy the title unless pvp players are selling keys. Sure, people who play both can sell keys for some nice cash since the price jump, but even if the pve farmers try to buy ranks in this title someone has to be earning the faction. This title cannot be pve farmed. However pve farmers can trade their cash for a pvp player's faction. User:GW-Ezekiel

WOOT! MORE NOOBS TO KILL! GO ANET! 75.203.224.38 18:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Not a bad thing
I don't think this is a bad thing at all, people always respond so negatively. I didnt know about this update so now I have 10 points since last night. I've had loads of previous chest opens and this not being retroactive feel kinda... Not too good, but hey. People will buy keys to get the rank. So it's going to be far more lucrative to sell them. Also this will improve the quality of PvP'ers (I hope), as frequent AB'er I've noticed that some peeps proclaiming high ranks in their title are absolute crap talkers with lowly attitudes that can't play for crap at all. Now there's an extra reason to do your best and farm those balties. My recent zaishen drops have been good too, so there :) 84.104.80.120 05:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it may help inflation a bit, obviously theres a high chance of getting alcohol or sweets compared to stuff worth more then the keys are going for, so maybe it is good. --[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 06:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not going to gripe about the title too much, because I never really even thought about a glad-emote or a champion-emote. I just think the title is funny, since it doesn't even necessarily encourage people to PvP more. Some rich PvE-er (speaking as a starving PvE-er myself) could just go to the Temple of Balthazar, buy a load of Z-Keys, and waltz off to the Isle of the Nameless to open the chest, all without ever touching a toe to the ground of an arena. And the first time someone rank-spikes me with this, I am literally going to burst out laughing at that person's self-importance. At any rate, looks like I'm back to Zaishen farming. I don't care about this title (though I may accidentally get r1 someday), but I can certainly make a good deal of money selling keys to those folks as want them. Elite Kurzick armor, here I come! 71.189.134.144 22:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait that doesn't make sense, the money is still in the hands of players, need to do less thinking while tired...--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 22:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

question!
what does it mean by 250 points, are they just the chests opened?EDIT! forgot to sign--<font color="#FF1493">Cloud <font color="Blue">dyl 15:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * These titles are granted to an account that has opened a number of zaishen chests. Points = 5 per chest opened.  Jamster 16:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * tks didnt see that--<font color="#FF1493">Cloud <font color="Blue">dyl 16:11, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Great Idea
Maybe it is just me, but I think this is a great idea. It will get more of the PVE players into PVP. Some of the people on this page though just sound like elitist jerks. "Oh, people that don't spend 80 hours a week aren't 1337, no emote for them!!11!" Amazing what you people complain about. Tenetke 17:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * How the hell will this get more PvE players to PvP? The fact that they can get it with faction doesn't mean that it still isn't much faster to do it with money. Either that or join a top guild. If anything, its getting PvP players to PvE. CorrectJeans 17:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * People are pissed because you can just buy your way through this title.24.47.18.113 18:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * IDK, Jeans, my guild (which on average only GvGs once a week) has been nagging me for GvG nonstop since the title came out. Then again, I give them until Sunday before they're bored with the idea. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 18:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A better question may be "how is getting more PvEers trying to PvP a good thing?" Sure, it will expand their scopes a bit, momentarily.  Then, they will get flamed by people about their builds, because they won't have as much experience to figure out basic tactics in PvE, and they may never come to PvP seriously.  Letting PvEers transition naturally to PvP when they have the experience is a good thing, but luring them to do so with enticing titles and cool emotes that let them drop weapons from the sky is not a good idea. 71.31.149.63 21:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Deer Hunting
What happens when you do /rank directly followed by /zrank? CorrectJeans 18:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome happens.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea 18:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Damn it, you made me want this title :( 71.31.149.63 21:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL this is the funniest thing I've read all day. GG Entrea. - insidious  420  00:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Cmon people! Give me a screenshot!  一二三 JEANS  三二一  00:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Sad
I'm quite sad that I as a poor(gold) pvp-player would be seen as someone with a useless rank. I know this title can be "bought", but tbh i dont really care that it can be bought. I don't even care that i will gain my ranks much slower. But i do care that, while i actually do not even "earned"(that is what you this title to be) my first rank, i will be prejudiced by you folks anyways. I mean, i have one crap pve-char and today i opened my first zaishen chest, from tournament tokens and balth faction, just because of this title track, but you already downgrade it for me to a "pve-title". I actually thought about even unlocking skills less often to get my title faster. This is why most of your comments make me somehow angry and a bit sad. Because this could be a great pvp-title track, but because you already started the discussion of this title on the pve side, the title will not have any value in pvp anymore. Because the "real" pvp-players already pushed the community and the perspective of this title to the bad corner. Great Job, thank you..... --82.174.109.26 19:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It got pushed there because people are out there buying hundred of zaishen keys. Hating on the title/anet/pve is the next logical step. If you earned it, you can sit there knowing you didn't buy it, but its hard to want respect for something you could well have just farmed in pve. lord of all tyria 20:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

WTT Zaishen emote for ./gladrank please!
Ok, seriously... what the hell is this? A late April Fool's joke? It has to be. There is no way they just added an HA-like emote to a grind/money title. This has to be a new low.--Slic 21:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree to section title. 71.31.149.63 21:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No Zaishen Emote Club please look.  一二三 JEANS 三二一  22:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Glads and HB would be so much better! 193.91.164.176 17:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

"Let me die with the Philistines!"
Let this title die, too. Another buyable title, gg we don't have enough, give us some more please. What's the official gw gold selling website again? --213.140.6.120 00:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Cough.. you would need around 4000 to 5000 euro to even max the title out, you gonna spend that on a title? --82.168.78.46 10:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't buy gold, and I have no clue what your section header means... explanation? <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  10:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

HA! An Anti-Elitist Title Track
Really, I feel so bad for all of you. boo-frickin'-hoo....  "they made a title and now i can't be the only one to rank emote people and thump my chest"...  then ignore the damn title, like others do when you display yours. --Dosearius 01:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha thats so funny! Yes I ignore those special emotes all of the time, it just shows how really silly people can be, thinking it's cool to have so much time on their hands they can't invest it in getting anything remotely looking like a real life, at all. Anyway, it won't be too hard to get to rank one in a few weeks in my case, and I WILL gladly use the emote as "finishing move" on those rank-emote spammers I sometimes come across in AB's after I've shown their builds just won't work against someone who read all of the PvX wiki... and didn't agree. ;P Won't use em on the regular newbies and those who obviously know what they were doing untill they got unlucky enough to die before I did. I have dignity and honour. Ehm, in the end, yeah I like the emotes, I can't be bothered with getting upset about it, since after all, it's just a game we're playing. PuppetX 02:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Wtf?
100 million faction?--Relyk 03:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's over 9000! Blue.rellik 23:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

lol @ above DBZ reference ^_^ -Aura Of Holy Might-too lazy to log in
 * In fact, it's over 9000 times 9000!!!! <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  05:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Give it a break
Give it a break, its an emote...so... if you think its too easy to get FINE, who cares? whenever you see a guy /Zrank'ing go ahead and say lol, noob or whatever but this is something anet MADE for you, so dont be such a moron about it, its like getting a blue expensive car for cristmass and say you wanted a red one. be thankfull to anet who made it. Its not like someone is forcing you to get this title. Dumazz 11:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The message above this one is awesome Blue.rellik 11:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I like this title track, not because i ever use zaishen keys, it just makes it easier to sell them for a higher price ;)--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<B><font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green"><B>Contribs</B> ) 12:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But now all those items you can get from the chest will become cheap as everyone wants this title
 * That would essentially be every item in the game. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 16:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, how much will all those "crappy" Firewaters and Cremes go for now. They suck, ya'll know they do. I'll gladly take those two crap items out your inventory bags, and I won't even charge you for them.  Deal?

grind
Hey ANet, stop with the fucking grindfests. <font color="Purple">Yikey  16:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah ANet...could you please just start handing out titles that require nothing to be done at all so players like Yikey can actually earn one?--Dosearius 00:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd consider that a violation of GW:NPA. Refrain for making comments like that, please. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest 00:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ok...good point, will refrain from that in the future. But it must be said....all the crying and complaining do nothing to help anything here or within the game.  If someone don't like the title...then don't chase it.--Dosearius 16:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But I don't play Guild Wars anymore, so what's up with your face. <font color="Purple">Yikey [[Image:Pig disgusting sig.PNG|19px]] 16:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This is where your argument fails. We want to earn our titles. Hell, I have 26 maxed so far. What we also want is BALANCE amongst titles. How come I was able to max 26 titles, while opening chests and id'ing golds the whole time, and I only have about 1700 of each of those. Unfair? Absolutely. I want titles that I can max that require me to play and not to grind. Clearing areas for the vanquishing title track wasn't grind. It was frustrating at times, but it was actual gameplay, not repetitive running around looking for chests, or FFF. This is where the game fails, adding more and more lame buy/grind titles and not more actual gameplay titles. How long have we been asking for a title for completing all of the quests in the game? And instead they add two more buy/grind titles. This is why I hate this game. So, next time you spout off with "yes, just hand out titles"-stupidity, use your brain to think before typing.
 * ANONYMOUS I.P. IS CREDIT TO CAUSE! <font color="Purple">Yikey [[Image:Pig disgusting sig.PNG|19px]] 16:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A bit late, but PvP is by no means a grind. King Neoterikos 02:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The Fundamental Flaw of Guild Wars
This really does go to the fundamental flaw of Guild Wars. Because the characters power ceiling caps so quickly, (pvp you practically start at the top) the only ‘new’ content Anet can give us for character development is purely cosmetic. Most of us are all lvl 20 with max armour and weps unlocked/purchased so the only way Anet can keep us on their servers (besides actually playing the game) is by creating crappy bragging right emotes that require hours of online grinding to acquire. Here’s an idea, Anet, keep your shitty emote-titles and how about spending the time you would develop them into creating new maps and areas to explore/pvp in. You might have more people playing your game than grind-festing. Christ-all-mighty, falling axes, swords, hammers and shit. Spare me. – Unsigned, coz I just don’t give a shit. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.25.255.218 (contribs).
 * Welcome to the wonders of MMORPGs. When they need a sequel, the only thing that keeps up from stop playing are shitty updates. But that's just a la basement dwellers. <font color="Purple">Yikey [[Image:Pig disgusting sig.PNG|19px]] 22:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Same with anything else that irritates people about this game, if you don't like how the game designers are doing things, stop playing. It is that simple. It is only a GAME for goodness sakes. Griping about how horrible Anet is for doing this or that is idiotic. Just go find something else that you like playing more. [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 00:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What they should do is add 2 new classes to prophecies so the core professions really are core, instead of another silly title...--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as constantly adding stuff to keep us interested, most people are forgetting something: They are doing just that. Just not in GW, they are putting alot of effort into GW2.. Enless you want them to put crap stuff in GW2 and focus on this one again, I say leave them be on how they are doing. Id much prefer to have GW2 be kick-ass and worth the wait, then screw it up with time spent here.... [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 00:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And screw GW1 over so no even wants to try gw2?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If people blame Anet for not being good enough to do both games at once, instead of fine tuning GW2, I just say "More for me!" when I get it :) [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 00:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Anets constantly degrading images of GW1 will not help them in GW2, and I believe that if they cant keep this game stable without adding constant crap, such as bragging titles that can be purely bought... well that doesn't make me put a lot of faith in their ability to run GW2.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh well. More for me if people quit cause of that. [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 00:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * We're not talking about a delicious moist cake here. If the only people playing GW2 are you and me, I guarantee we're not going to enjoy it much. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If Guild Wars alone attracted the amount of people it has on its own, I'm pretty sure GW2 will attract plenty of people, both GW1 people and newbies to the series. If we lose all the people who are real whiners in GW cause they don't like some random aspect of the game, and gain alot of new people, I'd welcome the change. [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 00:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * GW1 was at its prime when most of the people who play now joined, no so much now as their management styles have changed and will likely be at the start of GW2. --[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, I guess my stance on this is that it's just a game. It's your loss if you take it too seriously. If you don't enjoy it, just play something else. I play the parts of this that I enjoy, and I don't do much with the stuff I dislike; if it isn't fun, don't play it. I'm perfectly content with the parts of GW I like, and I will likely have the exact same stance on GW2 when it comes out. If people want to let game pixels on a screen ruin their day, thats their problem. ;-) Relax, and have fun with whats fun is my opinion. [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 01:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You're still missing the point tho, it has nothing to do with individual things, but the way they run GW1 compared to the way the same people will likely run GW2, which at this point is bad. If they make GW2 around the stupid things they have added in GW1 recently, would you play?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 01:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's whatever floats your boat. Like I said, I'd get it and play the parts I enjoy, and ignore the parts I don't. If the game is bad in general, I lose 50$ and don't play it. Not a big deal. As far as how others see it, thats up to them. But so far, I think ANet has done a good job for most of the game and I still enjoy casually playing it. If GW2 fails and everyone quits it, then GW2 is dead. ANet can work on their other completely different games, and the people who quit GW / GW2 can go find something else to play. [[Image:Foul Bane1.jpg|65pxx26px]] 01:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Anets done a good job for the most part, but recently its going on a downs slope, if GW2 follows the same curve and has constant nerfs with few buffs and constant additions of degenerating titles, etc. then I don't know if I will stay with GW2, I am trying it, at the very least.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 01:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) realistically the early stages of GW2 will have some big nerfs and buffs. Assuming beta and alphas don't find every exploitable skill combination. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  01:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ANET is working their asses off on GW2, so they really don't have the time or the available manpower to add huge stuff to the game. STOP COMPLAINING! Its not like Anet is forcing you to get this title or you can never play again...its just something to distract people until the beta for GW2 comes out...--Manbeast15 06:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * stops to play gw now, waits for gw2, hopes he will never ever see any pvp-15-year-old-wammo talking in his stupid and utterly childish leet-language* - Ragnar

Account Based
I'm assuming this title is character based like most other faction and pvp titles, but I can't find anywhere where it confirms that. Can anyone doublecheck that this title is account based? 03:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Two characters displaying it. Check. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 04:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Imagine if this were character based. Misfate 14:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be awful, you'd accidentally open the chest with a pvp character and then punch yourself in the nose. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I mean, why get a title on my mule? 12.203.15.191 19:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Warder?
It is very nice to see all you ppl moaning about how you (dis)like it or how neutral you are about the title, but does anyone happen to notice it sais Warder instead of warden? or is it warder, iff so, omfg Anet, YOU FAIL! (failblog, however, rules :P) can anyone clean it up when someone takes the time to stop moaning about the new title, or stops moaning to the moaning about the title... (a lot of moaning on this page :P) ty anyway, btw, get over it, the title is new, anet won't delete it cause you guys can't be a little mature and tolerate ppl who're willing to pay a lot of money, or farm a lot of balth for a title... i see it as a gr8 way to make money... 84.197.230.168 20:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So why didn't you change it instead of ragging on people ragging on Anet?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 20:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He's asking if the title name is "warder" or "warden", and suggesting that warder is a stupid name. lord of all tyria 20:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Context, read the line after it, and it is warden.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 20:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure iff it was warder or warden, so i wasn't feeling like changing it, cause then i'dd fail =P So, ty for changing it 84.197.230.168 16:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Toned Down
To be reasonable, if they wanted a title like this, it should be about 1/10th what it is now if they wanted it to be reasonable. It's a money title. Money titles cost 1 million per character. An account-based money title should cost more around the average account's character total. (I have 12 characters, not 100) 76.174.38.191
 * Are you saying that it should be easier to get this title? First of all, you have to take into account that this title does not cost a full 100mill. When you buy keys in that magnitude, you often get a rare drop from the chest that...allows you to buy more keys in magnitude. There was a point before this title that people bought keys for the sake of opening the chest. Also: Why the hell is everyone ONLY obsessed with getting max rank with this thing?! You DON'T need max rank, you need A rank. There is a difference. EDIT: I also forgot to mention that winning the monthy GvG or HB tournament nets about 900 keys. Its not all about money dude, you can easily get the title (a few ranks, not ALL OF THEM) doing HB tournaments rather than using actual money. 牛 <font face="vivaldi" size="3">Correct 仔 <font face="vivaldi" size="3">Jeans 裤  15:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course! Now let's all go win the tournaments! Oh wait...


 * I'm just saying that it shouldn't be easier because anet is probably aiming for this to be a tournament reward based title. Other ways of earning it are possible, but only pheasable for the first couple ranks. 牛 <font face="vivaldi" size="3">Correct 仔 <font face="vivaldi" size="3">Jeans 裤  00:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 900 keys... Times 5k... 4.500k, i really prefer that. : )190.50.167.129 02:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC).

Not Related
Er... this isn't about the Title, just wanted to say, I was looking at this page... if you scroll down the whole thing all you see are the faces... -->Suicidal Tendencie 15:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * On the one hand, changing someone else's sig is not a good idea. On the other, that's too big to be an allowed sig anyway. I shrunk most of them, he can have one big one here because that image is relevant as it's his response to the title which he's discussing. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  15:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Edited
Removed stub and done a few tweaks so it will look better when adding this template to the title overview page. Batchie 11:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Monsters ZRanking
I'm pretty sure I saw some monsters in EOTN Zrank. It was like last week so I don't remember who did this but I think they Zrank you. Can anyone confirm?
 * Some of the charr have Gloat which simulates the tiger emote, don't know about Zrank. Lord of all tyria 20:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the skill animation for... i think its Magnetic Surge... has has a target aura very similar to a zrank. If you brought Herta as one of your henchmen, that could explain what you saw. &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 20:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Highest Zaishen Title achieved till now??
I'm curious to see how much money ppl paid till now,checkin the highest zrank seen...
 * R 10, my friend is the only one in the game with it. 75.172.13.182 04:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How you know he's the only one? I feel that you're just talking bullshit :D - 78.27.70.241 15:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I saw someone in Farming Zaishen [keYs] with r11 zaishen.

Is the note about balth faction true?
I have earned thousands of balthazar faction since the update that instituted this system and have yet to recieve a single point toward the zaishen title. In fact, it doesn't even appear in the list. Is this note true? 151.199.178.239 18:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The note is assuming that you spend your faction on zaishen keys. Lord of all tyria 18:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just figured that out. Apparently, I'm slow this morning...151.199.178.239 18:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's redundant and unnecessary. I think it should be removed.Gorbachev116 05:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't remove it. It has been added and removed too many times in de past. This article is about the zaishen title track AND first line talks about getting it by opening zaishen chests. So, of course balth points mentioned should be spend on keys. Granted, everyone can do the math, but it is informative enough to leave it in.-- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 07:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It says 1,000 balth faction=1 point. At first it led me to believe you get 1 point from it somehow. I won't change it.Gorbachev116 02:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Maxed
Anyone know if someone has maxed it yet? I don't even know if it's possible but based on the idea that you get something worth alot everytime you use your keys I think it may be possible by now... Screenshots of it maxed or at least close would be cool. Mitch Spiritslayer 19:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yea a friend of mine has it maxed. I'll try to post some up soon.-69.115.13.91 02:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Rank 10 Have Fun!


 * I heard someone maxed this title. I know it from some zrank11 german player. TarEnethil 18:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.gwchars.de/album.php?img=29982


 * You know, this title was okay, until I did some math. A lot of people are saying it's a bought title, but unless you purchase gold with REAL DOLLARS. You will not get enough to max it out.
 * For the Maxed Title You Atleast Need Only One Of The Following: (assuming keys are 3k each)
 * -60,000 platinum
 * -400,000 Random/Team Arena Victories (Assuming no resurrections, no flawlesses, no consecutive, and 4 kills)
 * -60,000,000 gold
 * -3 years and 292 days of winning RA/TA matches. (non-stop, no losing, no bathroom breaks, no sleeping, no waiting, 5 minute matches, 24/7)
 * -Sixty million gold
 * -15 years and 73 days of winning RA/TA matches. (non-stop, no losing, 6 hours a day, 7 days a week)
 * -Sixty thousand platinum
 * -~$4,480 US Dollars (according to one gold buying site)
 * Too lazy to calculate HA, GvG, PvE farms, etc....
 * So you have two options: GRIND YOUR LIFE AWAY AND SHOW GW IS ABOUT GRINDING OR SPEND YOUR REAL MONEY AND VIOLATE THE EULA. --Toroxus 18:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Or you can bet at the Xunlai Tournament House... or maybe hit a Crystalline Sword drop... Oh yeah! HERE'S A THOUGHT! SELL THE CRAP YOU GET FROM THE CHEST! Did you think of that? Probably not... In the course of 20,000 keys I'd laugh harder than crazed monkey if you didn't get a bunch of elite tomes, some nice gold skins, or even an Everlasting Tonic.  (also, I'm sure most users here are capable of converting numeric platinum to numeric gold to spelled out millions to spelled out platinum... there isn't any math involved in that, but I guess it seems like math to some people...) And RA/TA is the lowest end of PvP, you probably have never done the rest to even do that math.  If you're stuck farming RA/TA for "years," you don't deserve any titles, other than "Moron of the year."  And yeah, you were pretty lazy with your RA/TA math, considering you completely excluded all bonuses and simply assumed that nobody brings a res sig or has any consecutive or flawless wins EVER, a pretty dumb and useless assumption.  There's also AB/JQ/FA, and the upcoming Zaishen quest rewards.  Go back to math class, or feel free to break the EULA...  I'm sure every other high-zranked player did...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:50, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * two things: 1. Xunlai picks = ~20-100 keys/month (depending on how many accounts you have) 2. your math makes me happy because it means people will ALWAYS be buying zkeys Raj4h 13:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Two things: consistently winning the mAT. POWERTRADING OLOLS. 60 million gold ain't impossible if you're good at powertrading. It's how all the rich people in every game become rich. Farming your ass off doing RA for 3 years is ridiculous and that won't nearly get you as much money as farming PvE. --[[Image:Progger.png]] - talk 15:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)