Talk:Game updates/20070201

Thanks blasted! GrammarNazi 18:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)



New Update
And they changed skills all over the place. Leader's Comfort is back to 3 Seconds again, now this skill is even more useless. Almost all of the changes that I saw from last time are back, and now they're permanent. So, good luck.


 * So is this a permanent nerf to the test nerf last weekend or whatever? --DragonWR12LB 18:50, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * yup its perminent(said that on the news page in GW login screen). SF is screwed again. GL using it at all in tyria. Notice how all ele attacka are (derceaeed kd, blind, burn, etc) or (increased cost, recharge etc) or both? thanks anet so you really DO want us stuck as support softies. thanks. in contrary to everything mentionied in all 3 books BTW... and why is it a whammo can do more damage than an ele anyways? -TehBuG-


 * I don't see alot of ele skill nerfs in the changelog. Some of the water skills were nerfed but most of the fire skill edits I noticed were buffs.  And really a 1 second change in burning time for SF?  Not a big deal in PvE I don't think given the 2 second recharge.  I did note the SoA change as that'll make it more difficult for the SoA 55 builds.  Lojiin 19:04, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Umm, did you actually read the update? All ele attacks are decreased good stuff/increased bad stuff? I'm guessing you did NOT read the update, as I noticed damage increases and/or energy cost reduction in Searing/Tenai's Heat, Firestorm, Bed of Coals, Eruption, Unsteady Ground, Churning Earth, Arc Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Shard Storm, Immolate, Flare, Lava Arrows, Flame Djinn's Haste, Stoning, Stone Daggers, and Shockwave. Smoldering Embers did get an energy and cast time increase, but it also got a reduced recharge and higher damage. Water Trident flies faster, Mind Freeze got it's slowing duration increased, Eruption, in addition to higher damage, now causes Blindness with each pulse(rather than just at the end), Lightning Hammer got reduced recharge...explain to me again how all those skills were weakened? BTW, SF is "screwed"? I played my SF ele throughout Nightfall quite a bit during the first test, and I hate to break this to you, but he still worked quite well, even with the reduced burning time. DKS01 21:31, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * They have made the fire Ele more powerful and removed much motivation to play any other element as a dmg dealer :( -Heurist

Deadly Paradox apparently had a bug fixed, but...excuse me? It says "fixed a bug that caused this skill to affect Assassin Stances.". This is tripe!!! How are stances different than skills? As far as I'm concerned, a skill is either what Vampiric Touch is, or meaning everything that can be placed on the bar, including res sig. So which is correct? I can't see how it was a bug to use an ASSASSIN skill with deadly paradox, such as a stance. Heck, isn't there other skill requirement stuff that rips away res sig? *cough* simple thievery. Stupid ANET nerfing assassin runners. If they're going by that method, then how come Feigned Neutrality still works and that's labeled a "spell". What is this nonsense!! --82.33.8.3 19:06, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * I can only assume because Paradox is replaced by the next stance. Doesn't make that much sense to me either. [[Image:UserImage Aubray1741 ClassicIcon.gif]] Aubray1741 19:09, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * I didn't check the ranger changelog, but I wonderd if serpant's quickness got the same treatment? As that was also used before activating another stance on some runners.--82.33.8.3 19:11, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * SQ still acts like it did before. It will affect a stance that replaces it.  --Fyren 23:27, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Hmm was there some kind of hiden FoW change? i just got in and had to load ~500kb-1mb 8-|--Krushak 19:49, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Note sure if I am going to do it or not yet, but would it be a problem if I sorted the skill updates alphabetically? They are kinda a pain in the ass to compare right now with having to jump all over the place. Let me know. --RabiesTurtle 21:02, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Hating the condition placed upon Deadly Paradox, it should NOT act this way. Regardless of what ANet says, a stance is a skill, and it should be recharged. - Nex 21:09, 1 February 2007 (CST)

I understand that these skills have been permanently altered. But i have not noticed many updates. is this just me? or do they not change it for a while? Because i was looking at some paragon skills, and with 12 motivation some paragon skills were not nerfed, but actually increased? or am i reading wrong?Not So Koolaid 22:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * For some reason ANet lists the skills in these updates with the high range value at 15 attribute points. Also, people are updating the skills quickly.  Don't look at the skill page history, but instead the "skill details" history. --RabiesTurtle 22:28, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Big WTF, Why is Leader's Comfort changed? 3s on a self heal? That's the pits. Also on the page there is no mention of Leader's Comfort being in the update. Another problem is that the description in game for "Shields Up!" has not changed. So I assume it doesn't add 50 armor to all projectiles. Woopey, Paragons got hit with the nerf stick! Horray! Wearying Spear... Reduced weakness duration... so WHAT? Just makes it more useless, not long enough to be worth Plague Sending, and not short enough to not worry about. Oh and way to go on making the Warrior's energy pool an even bigger disadvantage. 132.203.83.38 22:29, 1 February 2007 (CST)

LoL, the change to Gale directly contradicts the newest PvP Primer on the official site. 132.203.83.38 22:37, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Interesting that they asked for input between weekends...
...since they seemed to ignore everything that was said. Good point above about SQ->other stance... I'll have to test that out. I've been line-by-line'ing through the classes I use, and nothing jumps out at me as different from the Jan 19 skillset. If anyone could point out differences they see between 1/19 and 2/1, I certainly would appreciate it. -- Oblio (talk) 19:31, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Looks like necro changes... Depravity, Jagged Bones, Reaper's Mark, Spoil Victor (bigger nerf than Jan19). -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 19:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * Just some stuff that jumped out at me,
 * Beguiled Haze, blades of steel, Avatar Forms, Grenth's, Wearying Strike, Gale, Mantra of Recovery, Price of Pride, Power Leak, Panic, Reaper's Mark, Depravity, Sig of Return, Unblockable Throw, Power Attack--Theonemephisto 19:46, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Ya, the more I go through the professions I don't play much, the more I see changes. I'll have to kind of retract my original comment. :/ -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 19:47, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Part of the Temp Weekend?
Are these part of the temporary weekend (just coming early rather than late like they usually do), or are these permanent? --Theonemephisto 19:32, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Permanent, as said on the GW page. --Nocturne [[Image:Nocturne icon1.jpg|19px]]  19:33, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Mesmers
Spiritual Pain is even worse than the last incarnation. -_- Craw   18:49, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Spiritual Pain is an obsidian flame without the exhaust in an area and slightly less armor-ignoring damage. Shrug. I think its still fantastic. GrammarNazi 18:53, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, but mesmers as a class kind of suffer for their collective strength in PvE. Spiritual Pain was an answer to that.  Mesmers just don't have viable AoE or mob control, their hexes are arguably weaker on average than the necro counterparts and they've got probably the weakest primary attribute overall.  I think they need help in a bad way. Craw   19:39, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Spiritual Pain actual text says "if that foe is near a spirit all other nearby foes take .... damage and this skill recharges instantly if it hits a spirit"65.7.211.83 19:59, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Unimplemented changes
I notice the update to Spirit Light hasn't been implemented (both in the skill description and in usage). Should this be mentioned in the notes section?--Mont 19:42, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just checked, it has been changed in both implementation and usage. --[[image:Hrothgarsignature.jpg|100px]] (talk) 21:58, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Checked again; the description and usage are still 60...156, not the updated 60...180. --Mont 03:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * For 60 at 0, 156 at 12 is 180 at 15. --Fyren 03:22, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Does "60...180" mean 180 at skill level 12? (The skill has healed for 180 at skill level 15 since last summer.)--Mont 03:49, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * In ANet's patch notes, it's 0...15. In our descriptions, it's 0...12.  Except for the previous testing weekend and today, spirit light has always been 50...134 by our style.  --Fyren 03:55, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Ah, thanks. I was looking at the article history, rather than the template history (Template:Spirit Light)--Mont 03:59, 2 February 2007 (CST)

potential glitch


Potential glitch - Following the Feb 1st update some of my recently dyed armour has reverted back to it's original colour, not all but some. Anyone else noticed this? (Sorry if this is in wrong place) Telboy007

Protector Tracks
What the hell is "hard mode"? From the track descriptions, it sounds like completing all the missions at all(cause it says complete all primary and secondary objectives, not bonus objectives) gets you the Protector titles. So is "hard mode" then completing them with bonus/masters reward, or is it something new they're gonna implement? DKS01 22:55, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * In Tyria, the bonus is the secondary objective. I am still trying to figure out what "hard mode" will be for Thunderhead Keep.  Maybe 2x the size of mobs?  Every creature has boss-like abilities (huge HP, natural resistance, etc.)?  *shudder*  Glad I got my 6 characters to at least Prot of Tyria before this "update" (should be, "game change").  Oops, just noticed another update.  I'd better go check to see what other W stances got killed.  Queen Schmuck 23:31, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * can someone point me to the infor for this?-TehBuG-


 * There's a very brief statement from Gaile in this thread:  (fifth posting down on page 2) &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   23:47, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * "Yes, what you see is the precursor of something that we are working on for the future. We'll have more to say about this in a while."


 * I, for one, agree with several of the posts in that thread - this is a load of crap, having to play through once more/having our "maxed" titles not be "maxed."


 * So... Everyone who has the Protector Title is going to not be able to get the new title? That would not be good, as the people who invest time in to getting the protector titles would be a little upset. Bhnrecon 00:21, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * I checked on all of my characters, and "Protector of Tyria" is, for those with it before update, still the highest level for Tyria, and still counts towards "Kind of a Big Deal" or "People Know Me". For my one character that hasn't started any missions in Tyria (Rt), I based this on her non-completion of the other 2 campaigns.  I can not verify previous "Prot of XXX" for any other campaign is still highest, though I know there are many here who can check on their characters.  I am guessing, for hard mode, that if all characters starting mission have Prot of, the "hard mode" will be automatically turned on.  There is always the (high) chance that your existing max level "Prot of XXX" will be unmaxed, which will rightly piss off 99% of title seeking people.  Queen Schmuck 00:54, 2 February 2007 (CST)

People with titles seem to get a little to aggressive whenever changes affect their titles. If the titles are completely forgotten, this is such a marvelous idea! I would like to play through all of the missions again with my level 20 character so that the mobs actually can hurt me. But it shouldn't be automatic. Instead the players should have the option to select which type he is going for, normal or hard. (Yeah, this is the runners view ;) ) -- (talk) 08:12, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * How about this for hard mode, all mobs are:
 * dual profession
 * +20 level of normal (capped at 30, bosses at 34)
 * 10 skill slots (12 for bosses)
 * 300 attribute points (400 for bosses)
 * If that isn't enough challenge, we could also add in natural resistance to every creature, and possibly 1/2 activate time 1/2 recharge 2x damage skills.
 * Oops, just realized that Anet might read this and then actually do it. Queen Schmuck 12:01, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Have mercy on our chars... 132.203.83.38 17:44, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'm sure that the main idea is to allow more challenging play in the low level missions, but also increase the challenge a bit in the harder ones. I'm waiting to see what Great Northern Wall has to offer us. *evil grin* --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2007 (CST)

ANet is forgetting something.....
THE FREAKIN SKILL HUNTER TITLE TRACKS!!!! What the heck!? I seen where Gaile had said that they planned on fixing the skill hunter titles around mid-Jan 2007, yet they didn't, instead they made a new set of titles that CANNOT be maxed by certain players. Wonderful. If they can add new titles, why can't they FIX the old titles that have been screwed since Prophecies came out. ....*sigh*

I is are teh agrrivation. o_O --Old Man Of Ascalon   (T/C) 00:12, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * I think you mean Factions, not Prophecies. No titles when Prophecies came out.  --Rainith 00:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * Whatever, I'm tired of screwing around with this crap. The skill hunter thing is more difficult than most people give it credit for.  It's going to cost 288,000 gold at least, so that has to be earned (or bought, whatever floats your boat). Next, you have to earn 290 skill points, which is no walk in the park, afterwards you get to go find and kill 290 freckin bosses, some of which are in some of the hardest areas in the game.  And for what?  A title that cannot be maxed, period.  WTF.  I should have spent that time sitting in my guild hall getting drunk, both in game and out.  At least I could have achieved something.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C)


 * I fruitlessly hope that they never change how it is. I'm not interested in maxing titles at all, and I find earning the skill points to be a lot more challenging than earning the gold as I go. Besides, now all of my Heroes can have pretty much any elite that they want. Having made a lot of progress on the capping title track, I am a lot more impressed to see an Elite Skill Hunter than Kind Of A Big Deal. Decentralising pretty much the most interesting and cross-continental title seems like a big mistake to me. -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 00:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * I don't understand why people can't get it through their heads that Gaile said that there would probably be a "International Skill Hunter" title as well, which is the same thing as "Elite Skill Hunter" with a different name. What exactly are you losing?  Nothing.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 01:18, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Old Man, you just made me spill my drink! LOL! (2 post up)

Anyway, I see it as this. There are currently at least 3 unobtainable max level titles: Skill Hunter, Sunspear, and Lightbringer (might be missing one, totally ignoring retarded "Gamer" title). Well, if you work against the game you can, after many many hours of non-stop fighting (South Park episode comes to mind), get max Sunspear and Lightbringer titles. Basically, any normal Joe (as in, non-extremist) can never currently get those 3 titles maxed. With each campaign, the Skills title grew, never allowing it to be maxed.

Soooo, there really is NO point in having ONE character unlock all elites (unless you only play one character). IMHO, they should change this title to be account based (how impressive would that be in RA waiting area?), allowing all your characters to just get the elites they need (my does NOT need Searing Flames). With the left overs, you could then get the other ones with any character that just happened to be in the area to cap it. As it stands now, if you play more than one character, you are wasting time and effert to get your caps, with no benefit.

Would you (anyone reading this) be less impressed to see Elite Skill Hunter if you knew that it was account based? If so, why? I mean seriously, why would you be less impressed if they get the title with more than one character? It is still just as many elite caps. Sure, one character didn't have to get 6 million XP, but, so what? I have 7 characters (not counting perma-pre). Between them, I have (just checked) 4.897 million XP. Does this make me any less skilled? On the contrary, since all 7 characters are of a different profession, I would say I am more balanced. A 55 could rack up 6 mil xp, and yet only really know 3 or 4 builds.

Anyway, my longwindedness is ending. I think the Skill Hunter title should be changed to Account Based (they change everything else in game in "updates", so why not this?). I also think that the title should be broken into 3, Skills Tyria, Canthan, and Elona. Core skills would be required once, and count in all lands.

Then again, with last update, Anet has shown they really don't care what we think, so this is all moot. Queen Schmuck 01:28, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I agree to some degree. I do understand and agree that it is kind of redundant and pointless to have characters with skills they can't use, such as a Sandstorm Warrior or an Eviserate Elementalist, however, the fact that the skills unlock for all heroes for any character as well as any PvP character is definitely a good thing.  I love the fact that I can create a Factions character and get them to Nightfall at lvl 12 or 13 and get lvl 15 heroes that have these skills unlocked and allow me to make them powerful enough for me to not have to rely on guildys or PUG groups to help me with low level quests and missions.  It is also nice to be able to make any build for a PvP character on the spot without having to farm Balthazar faction to unlock them.  I personally love playing Ranger, and it's really the only character that I can do higher level stuff comfortably.  This fact makes it easier for my other characters to level up quicker and be more effective.  But none the less, the hard work I've put into doing this stuff with my ranger shouldn't go unrewarded in my opinion and at this point it is.  IMHO, a title isn't worth having if it has absolutly NO chance of EVER being maxed.  This really gets under my collar.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 01:50, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just a note, Holy Lightbringer (8) is obtainable, and there have been a select few that have been able to obtain the Spearmarshal (9) title. The one problem that I could see with implementing the account-based skill title would be pissing off the players who have already spent the gold for SoCs on multiple characters going for the max title.


 * Ok, Cougar and I have been spending COUNTLESS hours / gold to try to obtain every skill there is to cap with just one character. I have 25 character slots, mostly mules, however 6 characters that i play all different professions. Does this make me more skilled then anyone, no... just means that I have the money to buy tons of slots and the time to farm just about anything that i want. However, when cougar and i spend ... oh say.... 6 hours farming 1 zone over and over and over again to get skill points to that we can continue capping skills, then this update does not fix a problem that has been around for say... forever... it is a giant kick in the b@ll$.... this is just IMHO.. but who is counting..... Bhnrecon 01:44, 2 February 2007 (CST)

As a person who has the max skill hunter title I would like to say: it's one of the easiest titles in the game. The title is self-fulfilling, you gain 5,000 XP (half way to the next skill point) each time you cap a skill and you make more than 1k gold in drops along the way to buy a new cap sig. The only two obstacles are time and knowing where the elites are before the wiki listed them. If you're starting now, you have the advantage of a full list of elites and all kinds of tips on how to cap them, I capped all 290 (without Ebon dust Aura) before half their pages were on the wiki.

Consider the chest opening title... the MINIMUM key cost to count for the title is 600 gold. The number of chests to max the title is 10,000 chests. That is... SIX MILLION in gold. 90% of the drops will not even pay back half the key price. So, yeah.. You should be thankful. You're complaining about one of the easier titles out there. --Karlos 08:28, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Sorry, you feel it's an easy title. For the rest of us that can't spend 23 hours a day on Guild Wars like yourself, it's quite a challenge.  Excuse us, if everyone isn't elite enough for you. The title should be able to be maxed.  Period.   It's idiotic to have a title that can't be maxed in the first place.  That's like having a cartographer title that maxes at 150%.  Ohh whats that, there isn't 150% of total land?  Well to bad, you can't have it.  Your not l337 enough.--Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 22:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * I agree with Karlos, got it (almost) with no real difficulties.. except some bosses but.. fingers in the nose.. ;) &mdash; Corsaire  [[image:Corsaire_Signature.gif]] 08:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * * Pst!* Hey Karlos, you're off on your calculation. 5000 xp will only get you 1/3 of the way to your next skill point, it is 15K per skill point.  :P  --Rainith 15:12, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * Erm...I thought it was 20k. Now I'm confused. Entropy 15:36, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * No, it's 15k. Remember that for each 3 skills you cap, you get one more skill point, which in turn rewards one third of the next skill point. Someone could do the maths for how many skill points you need initially to cap all of the elites. I'm too lazy and tired to do it now. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:09, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well, I did calculate it. It's exactly 194 skill points for the 290 elites. (Lightbringer elite is the 291th which doesn't need a skill point) And any double xp weekends will lower this by a lot. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:14, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * No double exp weekend will lower the amount of skill points needed, it's still one point per signet.. &mdash; Stylva  (talk)(contribs) 17:35, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * He meant that double XP for capping means that you'll earn skill points faster *by* capping, which in turn means you can cap *more*. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   17:37, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, you will get two additional skill points for 3 new elite skill caps instead of one, which also gives two thirds of the next one instead of one third and so on. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 17:39, 2 February 2007 (CST)

XP minimum needed for all elite caps
I was way off on my earlier estimate of 6 million XP needed to cap all elites. One thing is you get 2 free sig caps (first one for quest, then one for quest reward). Next, Lightbringer elite and, I believe, Wurm Siege, are "free" elites, as you do not need skill point/1p to get them. So, 291 - 4 = 287 skill points. To get 287 skill points, ignoring all mission/quest rewarded ones, would require 4,142,600 XP ( ((287 - 23) 15000) + 182600 ). As per the Experience page, XP needed to level is capped at 15000 XP as of virtual lvl 23 (why 287 losses this amount). Taking the result of 264 * 15000 shows XP needed after level 23 (3,960,000 XP), and 182,600 is the amount of XP to get to level 23, which is why it is added.

Now if you add in doing all 58 missions in all current campaigns, you then only need (at a minimum and excluding any skill point quests) 3,272,600 XP to cap all existing elites. That's still a lot of XP, though nearly half of what I had earlier estimated. Queen Schmuck 17:42, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * What about the 5k exp gained after capping the elite? That kind of "reduces" the exp needed, since it's practically free and automatically earned as you go. Of course, if you say you'll have 3.2 million exp after capping all the elites, then my comment is irrelavent. --8765 22:43, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Total minimum XP after capping all elites, sans skill point quests (which would lower the number of points needed via XP gain). XP gained while capping is still XP gained.  :P
 * No prob, just thought I would throw the figures out there so people could see the XP needed to acquire all elite caps. The above also is dependent that you didn't spend any points on purchasing non-elite skills, which pretty much makes the numbers only viable on a Tyrian char, or possibly an Elonian char (via hero skill trainers).  A Canthan char would have spent a few points getting skills that allowed the char to live long enough to get that high XP number.  Queen Schmuck 22:58, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Update
Seems the site has been updating and changing the skills around as they don't match what's on here any more. Capcom 01:24, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * They still match. Did you scroll down to the older update by accident? --Fyren 01:36, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Oh crap, you're right. I'm sorry, I've been really sick today and am not particularly with it. :/ Capcom 01:40, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Anyone else think the note on the duration of SoD is unnecessary and just an argument of semantics? -- (talk) 01:50, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Rebirth trick
Rebirth trick worked in all of DoA on any closed gate (and I assume the rest of the game, though no place had more lucrative loot behind its closed doors)... We used it in Foundry, Gloom and Mallyx. So it was not just for the Foundry. And sorry for the aggressive tone, Fyren, didn't know it was you. --Karlos 02:40, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * The "namely" in the original note was wrong, then. I'm sure you know I have no clue about this PvEry.  --Fyren 02:44, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Wasn't this fixed a while back? I used to consume corpse next to gates in DoA and wiggle through them (to the opposite side of the gate from the corpse), but that got nerfed several updates ago. Is there another trick I was missing? --Zdain 21:56, 2 February 2007 (CST)

sorting
How about sorting the skills alphabetically? I would do that, if you want to.. Poke 07:38, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Leave it matching ANet's text like we have always done. --Fyren 07:57, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Ok. [[Image:Poke.gif]] Poke 08:20, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * I already offered to do that once but apparently the community decided a long time ago to keep them matching ANet's version. I started a discussion on the topic though since it seems counterproductive to the wiki to keep it harder to find the information you need.  I understand keeping the same language word for word, but the order shouldn't matter.  Comment on my discussion on the other page. --RabiesTurtle 10:39, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * Ctrl-F (browser search) helps in quicking finding skill you are looking for, at least in Firefox (I assume this function is available in IE and others). Queen Schmuck 10:48, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, CTRL-F is also a search function under IE.. &mdash; <font color=#477391>Corsaire  [[image:Corsaire_Signature.gif]] 11:09, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Steady stance
ANet uses 0...15. They're saying at 15 tactics, it's 6 energy. It's not. It's 7 energy, down from 8. We use 0...12, which happens to be 0...6 but that's irrelevant. --Fyren 20:41, 2 February 2007 (CST)