Talk:Ursan Blessing

OMG! ARE YOU FREACKING SERIOUS! WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN --Blue.rellik 02:03, 23 August 2007 (CDT)


 * cough* Well, I believe written somewhere that norn can turn into bears so prehaps after a little help here and there you can turn into a bear as well. I sure hope Brutal Mauling is improved before I have to use it as a bear. Flechette 02:05, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

there's 2 versions of the skill, one given in 'mission' and the otehr is permanent.. cant remeber the stats for the mission version, but the permanent(useable in any PvE area) is elite, and affected by the norn title track, both put you at you -2 energy degeneration, no matter what proffession, and gives bonus health and armour, gain 1 energy when you deal or recieve damage, and end when your energy reaches 0 Tera arcane 21:06 24 August 2007 (GMT)

Only -2 regen? That's so win --Blue.rellik 22:12, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Regardless of natural regeneration it's set at -2 energy degen 72.196.131.42 00:24, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The temporary version's called Ursan Aura. -- Gordon Ecker 03:08, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh okie dokie. I misinterpreted it as being -2 regen, not putting you at -2 --58.175.232.242 05:43, 25 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Look like ArenaNet was planing a Druid profession and instead they did this with the skills ideas (originally created for the Druid)-- NeHoMaR [[Image:User_NeHoMaR_sig.jpg]] 14:51, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Found out that using a zealous weapon the energy regeneration is unaffected, so I did have -2 regen but also got 2 energy per hit. Haven't tested if the regen changes if you switch from zealous to something else (or the other way around tho). I found this elite very usefull doing the Norn Tournament, still having problems with that last one, but this might become the only skill you need and perhaps then it's possible for any class!Shai Meliamne 21:02, 25 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Sigh I really wanted my char to transform in a bear not stay as he was, I hope that was a skill and will be fixed by the offical release MageMontu 06:10, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

remove enchantments and RAMPAGE
I was on a hunt rampage,then I used bear thing,and rampage blessing ended (still was 30 secs left)
 * Hunt Rampage is an enchantment... --Kale Ironfist 19:27, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Analyzing Classes and Aspects
Warrior - Strength - Swords, Axes, Hammer

-Worthless for maintaining forms. While you still will receive an armor bonus, and a armor penetration bonus, you form will end quickly and is hard to maintain outside of battle.

Ranger - Expertise - Bows

-See above. Bow attack range may seem like a good idea, but they’re slow. Spears would be better for that. Expertise is pointless because of the lack of energy requirements for skills. I'm not sure of skills react to ranged weapons, but I believe they are touch skills and Point Blank AOE and thus you should go /D for scythes.

Monk - Divine Favor - Staffs/Wands

-Good energy recharge is the only like putting like over warrior or ranger. You'd obviously have to go /D for scythes.

Mesmer - Fast Casting - Staffs/Wands

-Same as above. No spells mean the prim attribute is wasted.

Necromancer - Soul Reaping - Staffs/Wands

-Solo reaping will recharge your energy in battle, 40 energy mean you'll be able to stay in the form out of battle for a minute. Battle will totally recharge your energy, if you have adequate levels of solo reaping. Go /D for Scythes.

Elementalists - Energy Storage - Staffs/Wands

-Energy Storage means that you'll be able to maintain the form outside of battle for a long time. Each point in ES buys you 4.5 seconds outside of battle. That means at 10 ES, not including a weapon or runes, you over one minute and 15 seconds. Probably could hit 2 minutes wih a bit of stretching. /D for scythes.

Assassin - Critical Strikes - Daggers

-Critical strikes mean that auto-attacking will quickly replenish energy. I recommend you don't use daggers, rather use a scythe because dagger auto-attack damage is pretty bad.

Ritualist - Spawning Power - Staffs/Wants

-See Monk.

Paragon - Leadership - Spears

-Leadership will give some energy (I think) when you use Ursan Force or Volfen Bloodlust. Raven Shriek will also give energy, but has a long recharge time. I believe you must be within melee range for skills to work, thus P/D would be a good choice, again for scythes.

Dervish - Mysticism - Scythes

-Mysticism is usefull because, although you lose all enchantments that are already on you, new enchantments still take effect (unsure, needs testing). Scythes are good, but it would be better take dervish as a secoundary and get a nice primary attribute.

Clearly, the three best classes for aspects are Necromancer, Elementalist and Assassin. Assassin will do the most damage outside of skills, but has iffy regen and stability at best. They also get a small armor bonus. Elementalist is the most stable and Necromencer will get the biggest boost from battle. Elementalist and Necromancer will do about the same amount of damage. Paragon gets fourth place because leadership has a use, if a small one. Paragons also get an armor bonus. Warrior is in fifth place, for the armor penetration and +20 armor to physical damage. In second to last are Monk, and Ritualist, purely because of the extra default energy. Ranger brings up last, with no advantages. !71.252.100.125 09:01, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Zealous weapons help to maintain forms, as does maintaining Balthazar's Spirit/Essence Bond on the person after the enter the aspect. Also, energy regeneration means jack all, since everyone is put to -2, regardless of energy regeneration. As such, Warrior with zealous axes/swords get a big benefit in dealing good damage through melee range skills while being able to maintain the aspect for the duration of the battle. Because of the fairly low recharge, you don't really need to maintain the aspect outside of battle, and Elementalists get hit the hardest when they decide to drop the aspect early, as they will have no energy. Necromancers get big points for Soul Reaping, but unless you have Tormentor's, it's unlikely you will enter melee. Assassins lose on Critical Strikes due to opponent level. While their critical hit rate is still higher, it is dramatically lowered due to the difference in levels, so the chancy nature of energy gain is not good for stability. Zealous daggers offset this, due to the double strike chance on auto-attack, and the melee range skills don't take into account the weapon anyway. Choosing to go /D is wasteful for any caster profession, as they'd still need points in Scythe Mastery (not a good sign to see a caster wading into melee). There's my assessment on your take on profession breakdown. --Kale Ironfist 09:12, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you for your imput. I mistype the monk one, when I said energy regen, I meant energy cap. More energy, IE can maintain the form outside of battle. Casters going into melee in Ursan Aspect, do it +10-20 armor, so, while still fragile, they can do well. You also underestimate critical strikes. An assassin wielding daggers can auto-attack level 20 enemies and easily regain all my energy. Even in Aspects. While the form attacks don't take weapons into account, when your using Raven or Bear, you'll be auto-attacking quite abit. Scythes do good damage, when in PvE, and thus are a good weapon of choice for those relying planning on spending most of the time inform. Also, I believe you missinterrupted my evaluation. This is for those who intend to only use a form. While I don't know how this will play out, Ursan and Wolf are incredibly powerful. If I team runs 2 bears, a wolf (IAS Support+Deep Wound), and a raven (Cripple/Bleed/Blind), with three monks and a nuker/necro/something, you could have pretty armor ignoring damage. The wolf would be a ranger, who is okay, because he can lay a QZ and then keep Volfen Agility up permentantly, allowing for spammable damage and constant IAS.72.75.19.17 07:31, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Your estimation on Assassin, while accurate, isn't viable in a PvE setting. Most enemies are beyond level 20, and all end-game enemies are pretty much level 28. Your critical hit chance, even with CS, is very low. Furthermore, GW:EN monsters tend to be smaller in groups, but stronger and more likely to spread out, so Scythes won't often get their multi-hit bonus and I don't think advocating Scythe usage on a caster is a good idea (even if they do get an armor bonus in Ursan Blessing). Other campaigns don't really need this sort of power in terms of elite skill. Plus, you don't really need to maintain the aspects outside of battle due to 30 second recharge and a fair 10 energy cost which becomes nothing since your energy returns to maximum. --Kale Ironfist 08:15, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Critical Strikes vary depending on armor level, not the level of the mobs themselves. So, while enemy elementalists will have increased armor compared to human elementalists, it's still far from making critical strikes obsolete. I'll easy criticaled on Destroyed Casters and sometimes, through rarely on the warrior. Also, in GWEN, I've noticed that because enemies are spread out, there is very little time between battles. Maintainablity is an issue, because you really don't want to run to the mobs, get crippled/slow hexed, and have your form run out. If this happens, your left with zero energy and possibly a large drop in health, the juicy for a mob to smash. Whilst scythe's may not be the best choice for all classes, if your using an Aspect, attacking from range with a staff, bow, or spear will get you now where. Honestly, I don't have all the much experience with Scythes auto-attack, but I know that it can do quiet a bit of damage to 60, or even 100 AL. You say that the auto-attack is worthless, but it's something to do while your waiting for the 3 secound recharge. Thinking on it, daggers maybe the best martial weapon for stability, but for damage it's terrible. As you make it sound, there is no good class use for Aspects, but clearly there is. While I do not believe I know everything, nor to I believe that my analysis is perfect, I do think it's a general guideline.72.75.19.17 14:13, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

ok i can see both ur points, but id like to say i have been useing daggers, and due to the chance to attack twice they work very well...wile they do only 6-12 damage per hit normally they hit often, and i use the skills for damage. ive been going R/A u underestimate the power of the rangers 70 armor for defence and 25 energy to keep up the blessing, makeing them fairly balanced...dervish may work better. in short i have to disagree with three statements; 1: this guidline said rangers are bad, i think there one of the best, with mid energy and armor, like a dervish. 2: daggers are a fast way to get alot of hits in, makeing them good for keeping it up. 3: scythes are not too good with keep-up, becouse of the chance of hiting three is slim, but are the best in damage becouse of the 9-41 damage. The Observer 71.214.197.11 10:09, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

I play Beast Master Ranger, using a spear, and i can maintain this for over an hour. Discussion ended.--Darksyde Never Again 16:41, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Wow, in all of this nobody mentioned mesmers at all. With high inspiration and Dwarven Stability, stances such as physical resistance, elemental resistance, drunken master, or the mantras can be maintained for close to 3 minutes. Also, Ether Signet can give you close to 20 energy back after the form ends, allowing you to act while you wait for UB to recharge. Also: Serpent's Quickness. Rette Alarix 17:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

lol @rangers. u even forgot the +30 armor bonus against elemental damage for rangers, making one of the best armors in the game (many ppl forget this tho). ranger is one of the most balanced classes. i play very much as an ursan ranger with a motivation shield and using mending refrain. i almost always die as the last ursan, when we wipe.

energy hiding
Probably obvious, but don't forget to swap to a low energy set to end the blessing instead of using the skill that ends it. Darthnice 09:43, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Wasnt able to get into sneak peak, can someone comment
Just fixing up the main list but this one confuses me are these (form based) skills temp or permanent skills? Is Ursan Blessing the only permanent and the skills it gives you temp or how does it work? -- Xeon 20:49, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's an elite skill that lasts until your energy hits 0. For as long as you are under the aspect, you get a different skillbar. --Kale Ironfist 21:01, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Ok, kinda answered it but i found the answer anyway. Another question is how many new mission based/explorable based skills are there that have been sighted so far? (not effects, im talking about skills that are like Junundu skills and Vial of Purified Water.) -- Xeon 21:20, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sneak peak only showed three, temporary versions of each of the blessings which had no variables (each had flat numbers for every effect). --Kale Ironfist 21:23, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm if there are more the main skill page will need to fragment the temp skills list then. -- Xeon 21:25, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Farming
With all these adjacent and twice and etc, it looks about right to me.

i would agree, however there is no healing wile in any of these forms, yet, so that may not be viable. The Observer 71.214.197.11 10:11, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, Dervish with Avatar of Dwayna might stay alive at least some time. Vazde 17:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Too bad the game still doesn't allow you to use multiple elite skills (aside from arcane mimicry and capping AoD while you have UB equipped).... --Wesley 13:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Not true, when I was on my ranger and was having trouble with the glacial griffon, I went R/Me (trapper) laid down a ton of traps... pulled the griffon... then used this form to be able to finish him off. Double-echo dust didn't work, but this did.76.173.217.181 17:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Character Appearance
How does one look ? Something's changing ? If so how are the emotes ? --Metatail 16:21, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's just a "spiritual" thing, so your physical looks do not change. Zulu Inuoe 23:02, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Say "cheap" instead of spiritual... --213.140.6.120 13:19, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * These are 'blessings' not 'forms'. It would make no sense for you to change into a bear/raven/wolf --Blue.rellik 11:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Eternally keeping it on by equipping any blessing while under that blessing
In quest mission thingies like A gate too far and such, after getting the blessing from a shrine, you can get it from an ally, (in this case sif shadowhunter), which gives you the blessing to equip. by talking to them, while under the blessing and outside of battle, they will notice the blessing isnt in your skill bar (all your skills are replaced) and offer it to you, then by adding it on your skill bar, you can use it if you have at least 11 energy and refresh it, increasing your energy to full, but removing it from your skillbar, so you must talk to the skill-giver again
 * Hmm, never thought of that, but i always found this to be pretty easy to maintain so long as you know what you're doing. Also, if you use it at 10 energy, it doesn't end, it still goes.--Darksyde Never Again 16:44, 5 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Aint that one named Ursan Aura, rather than Blessing? I thought they had diffrent names, could well be wrong tho. --84.24.206.123 16:46, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

progression
currently there is no numbers for rank 1 and the higher ranks. wouldn't it make sense though to add 1 and 10, seeing how they are displayed on the skill (r1...r10) Viruzzz 15:04, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Link missing
Where is the link regarding the use of weapon and aspects? I think I saw that page on this wiki. Icyangel Strawberry 13:15, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Heroes
Has anyone tested this with heroes, yet? I'd be interested to see if they know how to use this skill. --C0c0c0 07:49, 25 September 2007 (CDT)
 * nvm. Just remembered that heroes can't use PvE skills. --67.191.222.19 19:51, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Ursan Aura
No one has created a page on Ursan Aura yet So I'm gonna remove the link. Re-apply when we actually get some written info about it. Piggyboy 20:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

ursanway wtf is it
i hear about people doing "ursanway" on like everything elite. like the deep, mallyx, DoA. i dont get what it is but im guessing a bunch of ppl pwning with this skill.
 * That's basically it but with some monks thrown in for healing. Rette Alarix 17:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's like the new thing now. Our guild (with a few people who've never even done doa) finished Mallyx in only 25 mins with pretty much no problems at all. Ursan teams make doa pretty easy. P A R A S I T I C 07:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea, it was mostly designed for the people who are just terrible at the game. After giving the junk players paragons, consumables, and Seed of Life, ANet decided people were still too hopeless to beat PvE, so they put ursan blessing in too. It's as imba as Guild Wars gets, but because it's for PvE, nobody complains. - Auron 08:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I run ursan-way and read prima so I can PvP like a pro. I can't lose at this game. --Readem 04:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Do your monks run HB with no prot? That's what the real pros run --Blue.rellik 02:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

me too don't like it. but for example in DOA. it was always the same concept (with obsi tank damage dealers, healers etc.). some classes didn't get into doa or the deep (warriors for example). of couse i talk about random groups, not guilds. with ursan, every class can go to doa, deep etc.

So instead of anet thinking of harder solution to allow other classes also to be allowed in these areas, they thoose the easy way. Well lets just put a enormous overpowered skill so all the idiots can do these areas as well. So everybody happy again and anet can just sit back lazily and watch how everybody just spams three skills. And those who liked elite areas cause you need some sence of what you are doing well ehm bad luck for those, majority wins. ~de klootviool. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.84.136.98 (contribs).

It is a way of giving people who hate the builds in the elite missions (example, a warrior who hates the obsidian build) a way of doing the mission without having that build. By having (this is what my guild does) 5 Ursans and 3 monks, all with at least Rank 5 Norn, everything goes down REALLY quickly. Our record for the City is 25 minutes, and 40 minutes for Foundry. It is amazing. --71.112.87.56 05:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Degeneration
08-11-07 Changed "degeneration" to "regeneration". "-2 degen" means "2 regen". ~Dash
 * That's not what it says in game. We go by the in game description. --Macros 22:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Arcane Bear
I added a small note to this article and to the Raven Blessing and Volfen Blessing articles about the synergy between the PvE Norn Blessings and Arcane Mimicry. Basically when the Blessing wears off Arcane Mimicry, normally a 60 second recharge skill AFTER the 20 second copy wears off, returns recharged after you exit the blessing, no matter how long you were in. This effect may apply to other 60 second recharges (Totem of Man only recharges 30 seconds after starting the Blessing), but not sure they would be as useful. This is one of the few generally useful Elite Skills that last for 60 seconds or longer. Any build that runs Mesmer/ or /Mes, or would noramlly just use its Primary class can use Mimicry to get the blessing off a teammate and still use its normal elite when not in blessing form. (I also recommend Ether Signet for that post-blessing energy hangover.) The only problem is that you can't use Arcane Mimicry on a player currently in the blessing himself, as the Elite Skill is replaced on the player's skillbar. While I'm at it, I also recommend swapping weapons to a lower-energy set when your Blessing is about to wear off assuming you have one. Desolation0 22:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

can heroes use the skill this way? You can't place it on their bar, but with mimicry you should be able to, right?


 * I think they can't arcane mimic it... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 11:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * somthing to test, though.. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 11:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, it doesnt work. they try, but it doesnt work. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 15:31, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Enchantment Maintain
I just tested this and it seems that Ursan removes enchantments I am maintaining on others. Could someone else confirm this? And if so, the last note needs to be changed. JonTheMon 8:14, 12 February 2008
 * /Confirmed. Just tested it with good old Mending :P. Had some nice ursan bonding build in mind to protect the monks :(. --Wesley 07:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

D/Me
Arcane mimacry, favorite avatar and another person with this skill. :p Tested today my allaince leader owes me 10k but won't pay. (I knew it would work he said it wouldn't b/c it takes off all buffs....wth) Lost-Blue 03:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So what do you do? Arcane Mimicry -> Avatar of xxxx -> Ursan? and what did it do? -Meridan 07:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course it'd be a nice buff for Ursan player. Arcane Mimicry has pretty long recharge also so it'd work alongside such skills... Really shame it doesn't work with forms. J Striker 07:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It does work with Ursan though, so you copy the Ursan, use your own form, and then use the copied Ursan, seeing as Avatar forms don't replace skills, the real question is, does Ursan strip your form? -Meridan 10:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is said that those Blessings only strip enchantments, no stances or other skill effects upon you. And I wasn't saying that Arcane Mimicry wouldn't work with Ursan, it's a Blessing. I meant that you cannot use Ursan yourself and copy a Dervish Form from your party member. J Striker 11:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, I didn't know if you thought that was what I meant though -Meridan 13:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is a really interesting concept TBH. I'm brainstorming on which avatar would be best with this combination.  I'm leaning towards Melandru first for the additional health gain + condition immunity.  Lyssa would also be nice for the extra dmg + energy would keep you in form longer.  Dwayna would also be nice for the self healing ability.  I think Balthazar and Grenth really don't fit very with with this, especially Balth, being that this skill already adds armor, though it may be less.  I'm very interested to try this combo out.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] Sk8  (T)  (C)  14:09, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would think mels too. The 25 energy doesnt matter when you put Ursan up, right? Your bar fills up with energy, so as long as you have a high set for mels then Ursan... Avalance 14:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, as long as you had enough energy to cast Mimicry + Melandru + Blessing, you would then be back at max. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] Sk8  (T)  (C)  14:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Nerf this!
Ugh, I HATE THIS SKILL MORE THAN ANY OTHER SKILL IN THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME! It's SO annoying that people will ONLY accept Ursan Blessing and HB monks in PvE now. Thanks, A.Net, for ruining PvE. I quit PvE because of this boring and ridiculously overpowered skill. Hatehatehatehatehate. Get rid of this, A.Net, or nerf it to hell, please. >_> This has completely ruined the game.
 * I think you mean PvE. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Er... Bah. Yes, I mean PvE. It has been edited accordingly...


 * Humans in PVE are over rated. HnH will never disconnect or leave on you.--[[Image:AlariSig.jpg]] 07:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That came from the same person who said sleep was overrated and he's now dead. I find that mr aggro has been mixing with bad people, i've yet to see see a ursa-way stream covering every aspect of PvE. I play on euro servers, if that's any help. Flechette 08:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a simple explanation to this...GW2 is comin up...Anet wants ppl to just get done with their shit fast as possible (that's where no skill, no talent, no balls ursan comes in), and move on to their new GW2. They aint gonna nerf it....."It's good business." Toxin 10:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree, it doesn't look like anet want people to rush through the game at all to me. They added plenty more character specific grind titles.  But I fully will sign any waver to remove this skill from the game.  I can't PuG without someone having this, and i hate it on the team.  Feels like cheating.  Actually, I wish hard mode didn't allow PvE only skills.  --22:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * lolwut? you don't HM a lot do you? Seb2net 22:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ursan Blessing is basically a cheat code. Indeed, its effects are stronger than some things in other games that are officially classified as cheat codes.  As such, yes, I think it should be nerfed, and hard.  My suggestions would be to make Ursan Strike deal the damage once rather than twice, drop either the +armor or the +health, drop the energy gain from dealing or taking damage, and don't make ursan blessing refill your energy upon use.  It would still be a powerful skill, but not game-breakingly so.
 * What Ursan Blessing really does is highlight the meaninglessness of merely having obtained some PvE title. Having obtained the same PvE title even without Ursan Blessing wouldn't be terribly meaningful in itself (you could theoretically have been run through everything by highly skilled guildies, for example), but for less obvious reasons.  Completing content is its own reward; completing content using Ursan Blessing doesn't meet the challenge laid out, but evades it entirely.  Quizzical 00:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The ends justify the means.--Gigathrash 00:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If a company adds cheat codes to a game and lets players using them commingle with the rest of the population, I don't blame the players who use them. I blame the company.  The curse of the Ursan Blessing spoiling the pve experience of many players is entirely the fault of ArenaNet.  Quizzical 01:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you don't like, don't use it, I enjoy rolling HM mobs with full Ursan.--Gigathrash 01:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

As a Monk, I;m fine with Ursan, but I DO hate all the elitists who think HB is the only Monk build. The whole Ursan/HB thing is just ridiculous in its obsessiveness for the "right" builds.Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  01:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * One can use the "if you don't like it, don't use it" line for cheat codes in any other game, but letting players who use cheat codes commingle with those who hate cheat codes is still terrible game design. Furthermore, expecting that everyone would just go ursanway is likewise terrible game design.  Why have 10 classes and over 1000 skills if they're all expected to go ursan except healers?  Quizzical 02:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly....That's a waste of over 1000 skills. In addition, people claim to have skillfully beaten every HM mission/bonus, and vanquish everything.  But what? You spam 1 and 2 and it's skill, alright...W/e, it may cause an uproar in people addicted to beating things so easily with it.  I don't give a crap, it ruined HM, it's not even HM after this skill.Toxin 22:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)