Talk:Cyndr the Mountain Heart

Hero/Hench Teams
NPC AI means the your team will bunch up, making them perfect fodder for Cyndr's pyroclastic shot. Killing this boss would be a lot easier with a team of competent humans because of this, and also because players can all carry kegs. But where you going to find a competent human? :p

After a first failed attempt I took a bonder hero along. I ran SF, had another SF Ele, Earth ele (Sandstorm, Earthquake, Dragon's Stomp), Herta, Talon, both monks. The difficulty is spiking Cyndr fast enough before his carapace regenerates. A number of failed attempts using this team left everybody with -60 dp. I had one last go with the carapace at a third. I zigzagged to Blackpowder, grabbed a keg, and ran straight to Cyndr. I think I may have called the target with meteor shower before dropping the keg. Luckily everyone was alive at this time. We only just killed him before his carapace regenerated.

I suppose my points are:
 * 1)Bring a bonder
 * 2)Bring lots of damage
 * 3)You can do this with -60 DP, provided all your damage doers are alive

I don't know if armor ignoring damage cuts through his carapace, that was my next move. But I'd guess not. Maz Mazkin 10:36, 1 September 2007 (CDT)


 * That much trouble is, to put it frankly, a sign of inexpert gameplay. Pyroclastic Shot has adjacent range, and its damage is negated by exactly one cast of Light of Deliverance (which Mhenlo carries). You can degen it to death without even bothering with the kegs, and a bonder is overkill. The groups of Searing Flames/Savannah Heat mobs on the way there might, in fact, be harder than the boss itself. BftP 11:56, 1 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Don't agree about degening it to death with conditions without using the kegs, because conditions don't appear to do any damage unless his carapace is off. Maybe with Necromancer degening hexes, I didn't try that. Your're wrong about pyroclastic shot - it does massive damage, I noted up up to 215 (and no, I wasn't running around naked), LOD won't do much against that. I suppose it is possible Menhlo didn't use it because he was running initially, but he wasn't running all the time. Regarding the mobs on the way being more trouble, I wpoint out SF and SH can be interrupted, Pyroclastic Shot can't. On your general point about my post being hysterical given that I'm a noob and all, unfortunately there may be some truth in that. I may have panicked and made it harder on myself than necessary; given that a party with -60dp can beat him simply by charging in and nuking him, I have to admit he isn't that hard.Maz Mazkin 14:23, 1 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Note that Conditions and Degen are two different things. Conditions (specifically Burning and Bleeding in my experience) do nothing while the carapace is up, yet Degen like Life Siphon (Simple example) seem to do carapace ignoring damage. Theoxygenthief 12:47, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

That wurm was easy to kill. I nearly killed him with one weakening. Assassin :P I had Light of Deliverance monk hero which helped negate Pyroclatic pretty much. All my hero/hench were ranged with me be the only melee. Worked pretty good for me. Gandorf
 * I did it the way, as replacing one of my skills on Dunkoro. for Mending, and Tahlikora, Protective Bond...Then flagged hench/heroes back...Ran in solo, did the kegs, just as i dropped the last one, i unflagged everyone. X.x 82.26.143.182 16:13, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I used this same technique for my necro. One hero monk with Mending, another with Protective Bond. I didn't even need to grab kegs from Budger, instead using Angorodon's Gaze with Signet of Agony to life steal him to death.  After he got to half health I started using Vampiric Gaze and Jaundiced Gaze to speed it up and Signet of Lost Souls for the energy to use them.  Very easy and fairly quick as Cyndr doesn't seem to have a huge amount of health.


 * Addressing previous comments...degen doesn't appear to work. The hexes I was carrying (Life Siphon and Reaper's Mark) seemed to have no effect.  Also, armor ignoring damage does not appear to ignore his carapace, as I tried using Signet of Sorrow (after flagging Acolyte Sousuke to Cyndr so his corpse would cause the signet to recharge immediately) and it also had no effect.


 * Oh, and one other thing...on one of my previous aborted attempts to kill him yesterday he did respawn right next to Budger, so I tried machine gunning him with powder kegs, but it didn't work. I got some kind of message about "invulnerability" that I couldn't capture quickly enough.  maybe someone else has seen this.  --Aubee91 14:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That's because this discussion originates from WAY before the updates --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 14:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Lol this guy is a -, I killed him on my first try with mehnlo+lina+cynn+herta+ogden (LoD)+Olias (MM LOL useless against wurm)+Gwen (full interrupt build)+me a dragon slash warrior. I killed him in two weakenings.

Instapawnageway: Bring Sh ele, fgj dragon slash warrior, 3 monks (I used ogden + 2 hench) 2 fire eles. Weaken him and kill him in less than 10 seconds. Owned. This is 20x easier than Frostmaw 88.195.166.148 09:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone a suggestion that *works*? Dead now for 132 times and I tried everything mentioned on this page - result .... 132 deaths, lots of frustration and no real desire to try again. I tried it with H&H since the human groups I tried it with ..... well, most didn't even MAKE it to the boss. So ... I'm Necro, set for Life stealing .... and I am at a loss on how to get this done. I had a bonder monk ... problem is, bond terminates when I have to go to him, Set second bonder flagged in the middle - ran out of energy, bond terminated. Blood necro taken ... didn't help matters with distance. As soon as I get the group together ... wipe. Instead of life stealing I then tried taking the shell down ... the thing needs like 10s to regenerate. Also Boss always easily regenerated all damage done. And when I tried with me and 3 Touchers with +3 runes of Blood Magic in I got him to around 1/2 health before the groupw as wiped. When the boss respawened it had FULL health again ... so ... short summary: Completely clueless on how to do this with H&H. Dead in 10 seconds with 3 touchers ... not in my 35(!!) attempts. Nowhere even near death ... 79.216.227.48
 * I took healer hero, blood hero, apply poison ranger, menhlo,lina,herta and talon and myself as dervish. i spread out the hero's and locked target for the necro and ranger. put healer hero behind them and hench behind him. so pyroclastic only hit 1 of my upfront heroes, who would get healed by 3 monks right away. he did go down slowly, so i started running kegs and puched him while his carpace was down. he died eventually. done this 3 times so far on diffrent chars. worked all the time Lยкץ๒๏ץ talk  12:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Success on my third try with with H/H. Acolyte Jin as a modified Touch Ranger OgQSQ4LTZCcCSCoGCHpGNiCA, Livia (N/Mo) OANEQsNd+JVPAS0ImJ8PISoPIPA, Talkora as LOD Heal OwAT02nC1pue32ITk7a9olITAA  Me as W/N OQQUQ2ISxaS+FAGTN9F7gNiZCBAA Sword with Vampiric Gaze and Angorodon's gaze plus Zho, Lo Sha, Lina, Herta.  Didn't use Power Kegs to open carapace, just zig-zagged in, targeted Cyndr and we all spammed Life Steal while the carapace was intact.  Separ 04:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible Bug?
I was attempting this with h/h but couldnt help but notice that his pyroclastic shot was doing 300-400 damage per hit, not the 80 damage listed. X Deity X 23:16, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * From the description I think the damage multiplies by the number of people he hits. Plus he's a boss so he may do bonus damage.Maz Mazkin 15:00, 2 September 2007 (CDT)


 * There is no bug. Read damage calculation for info on how character level differences affect damage from skills. Pyroclastic Shot has an executive summary. BftP 15:24, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

cyndr is easy to kill, use this technique if needed
(contact me ingame if having difficulties with the boss: godess nephtys r/m i defeated cyndr the first time really easily.  here's what i brought:

1-ranger trapper (me)

2- norgu- (dom mesmer w/ empathy /power block / wastrel worries / empathy / mantra of flame / the other skills are optionals

3-livia- spoil victor / life siphon / blood of the agressor / blod ritual / other skills are optionals

4- talkora- prot monk- reversal / guardian / mend conditions / dismiss conditions / aegis / divine intervention / peace and harmony

talon devona mehnlo herta

getting to cyndr was a joke. i trapped all the way, pulled mobs and see them die in my traps. once i reached cyndr, i simply flagged my henchies near the boss, used the keggs in a zig zag pattern and watched the wurm die in agony. the trick is to be fast when running the keggs. another cheap trick is to have one kegg ready in your hands before cyndr appears.

Size
How does this thing compare with the others? --Blue.rellik 22:01, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I heard it should be bigger then maw and even bigger than the assassin worm boss. If so, this should me mentioned, and the assassin worm boss should be changed. — [[Image:Zerpha_Elixir_Of_Valor.jpg]] Zerpha The Improver  18:47, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Infinite Kegs Method (probably a last resort)
Fastest and most brutal way I found to kill him even with complete 60% DP, was just to get him to re-appear next to Budger, once he does you just pick up and drop kegs repeatedly as fast as possible (Space Bar and Drop Hotkey), if you last long enough to drop enough, Cyndr dies extremely fast from the continuous explosions. Theotherandrew 23:05, 2 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Lol, I just did that xD Dropped around 50 kegs and then gave him deep wound. -Zerink

It seems that in the last patch (9/05/07) that Cyndr no longer will spawn next the keg guy. -COLDshiver

Nope...still works :) - Sunrider
 * Ok, never mind then. Guess i was unlucky COLDshiver 11:38, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
 * NOW its nerfed --Dunkoro 14:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, still works, I just beat him using this method about an hour ago :) 68.230.145.127 15:53, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You can't spawn kegs as fast anymore. It is nerfed... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

easy to kill even with H/H team
All you need is two interrupters. He has only few skills, with managable recharge. Take Zho and a warrior hero with Skull Crack and lots of interrupt skills. Spread out your team with flags, and your SC hero near him, and lock your heroes on Cyndr. That should give you enough time to deliever the kegs. Consider bringing a third (Hero) monk with Healing Ribbon and LoD. --Roland of Gilead (talk) 14:07, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

I did something similar but i used a necro with faintheartedness and shadow of fear to slow down pyroplatic shot. Ranger with distracting shot to take out pyroplatic shot and give it a 20 sec recharge and braodhead arrow to kill the spells. 68.39.131.84 09:49, 4 September 2007 (CDT)


 * It's Pyroclastic, but that aside: Speed debuffs don't tack past 50%, so only Faintheart is enough :P --84.24.206.123 09:57, 4 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Pyroclastic Shot is not an attack, so Faintheartedness and Shadow of Fear do nothing. Moreover, Pyroclastic Shot cannot be disabled with Distracting Shot or Diversion. BftP 21:59, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Wait a sec... isn't Pyroclastic Shot a skill? It's got a 3/4 second activation time which is interruptible by several mesmer and ranger skills. I think it can be interrupted because when Zho went along on my H/H team Cyndr never got any of her skills off. --MelechRic 19:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I also found that triple touch rangers will do the trick. Killed it in less than a minute. COLDshiver 20:01, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I concur. I did it with triple touch rangers and Cyndr was dead before I even had a chance to flag my heroes.--67.101.108.97 19:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed - although I wonder if Cyndr recently suffered an Anet nerf of some kind? I've taken three characters through EoTN now.  The first two Cyndr was easy with H/H teams, but he regenerated his carapace at least twice before I defeated him.  When going through on my third character though with an H/H team, I had a very similar team makeup as the first two times, and he was dead before his first carapace regen was even 3/4 done.  Poor boss didn't even know what hit him.  Shadowlance 21:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

What i did with a H/H team is simpaly used two boder monks to hold aggro and a symbolis spirit then with them holding aggro simply spammed barrles, the only dmg i took was from a PBAoE and since i was a ranger with elemental resistance that came down to about 40 dmg, he dident even regen his carapace and only me and 2 heros were used 82.33.121.191 00:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Protective Bond Method
Now, I wont say taking down Cyndr is easy through my method, it took me 2 full days to test. I had, Talhkora, Dunkoro, Aco.Sousuke, Cynn, protect & heal henchs, and an earth hench. I had protective bond (lose no more than 5% HP per hit, AND lose 3 energy or enchant ends), equipped on Dunkoro, cast on myself (War/ele) and Talhkora. Talhkora was the bait, she was flagged in the middle of the area. While Cyndr attacked her, I ran the powders. You'll get nuked by Cyndr for sure, not saying you wont, but you'll be within reach of Talhkora to heal and remove conditions (she has no problem healing herself if you give her a decent build). Now, the rest of your team should still be in the hallway, flagged, out of sight. When you drop the third powder, flag everyone out to nuke. Return your team to their previous positions if you cant finish it in one shot. You should be able to take Cyndr down in two rounds. While you're running the powder, dont go close to your bait monk, that will result in energy shortage on both hero monks.

Variables:


 * 1. Sousuke, can be any dmg dealer.
 * 2. Your hench team can consist of anything you're comfortable with.
 * 3. You can be of any profession, a running skill is recommended.
 * 4. Any monk heroes you wish, you must have two, and at least one has protective bond equipped(and disabled, so the AI does not auto cancel)

I had 330hp, so when Cyndr shot at me when protective bond is on, I lost only 16hp. But that took about 13 energy to up keep, -3 on Dunk, and some healing from Talhkora. So if you were close to your bait monk, imagine Dunk (40 energy, and +2 regen) getting choked.


 * --strike zk 19:52, 26 November 2007 (PST)

Some Thoughts on Cyndr
I got slaughtered the first time I tried this, team was not set up for degen and used hench monks, which is a BAD idea.

The second time was a piece of pie, some thoughts:

-Agreed on everything already said about protection, LoD, degen, Spoil victor -I might be wrong about this, but Pyroclastic shot seems to be a slow moving projectile, and by keeping moving and zigzagging i didn't get hit by it once on the second attempt.

Avatar of balthazar method
I did this method twice and it worked well both times with heroes and henchmen. Spread the heroes and henchmen about by flagging them so they don't get killed by pyroclastic shot. Put avatar of balthazar up and run between cyndr and the dwarf taking barrels back and forth, if you hold cyndr's aggro he can't hit you with the shot since it appears to be a projectile. --Tommy McTom 13:27, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

OMG
After the SV nerf i have no idea whther its still possible to kill him :S-- A g r a c u l  04:13, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Just do it the normal way - take Kegs and drop them 3 times near him, then do OMGWTFUBERDMG and repeat it till he's dead. SilverFury[[Image:Slvrskg.png]] 04:14, 7 September 2007 (CDT)

Im so glad i beat him the night before the SV nerf XD! poor people who have to cope without it..


 * His health regen makes it harder when you don't destroy his carapace fast enoughCOLDshiver 21:18, 7 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Or use mega-degen and armor-ignoring spells (they do work, right?) or a lot of life stealing. Touch Rangers? Or yeah, 3 people or more spamming kegs will do the trick. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:Sandstorm.jpg|19px]] 07:25, 7 September 2007 (CDT)


 * my group was fine, we had 3 melees 3 nukers and 2 monks, the 3 melees dropped bombs(wich is fun, the 3 nukers lunched nukes 1/2 a second after we dropped then cynder just stands there he and his dungeon is the easiest in this game to meorao de seno is not a mexican person he just likes the name. 07:22, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Hardest boss in any GW I reckon! 62.56.106.241 14:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hardest with humans or hardest with henchmen? I think hardest with henchmen is Shiro, although with a human group Shiro is definitely not the hardest. Shadowlance 13:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This boss was a pushover, though I do have to admit it took me slightly longer to kill him then the Great Destroyer, since I had to run 6 kegs to him during the battle. Pretty much every single dungeon boss in the game takes longer to kill or was a tougher fight then Cyndr, none of the AI even came close to dieing! -Gildan Bladeborn 14:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Shadowlace, an Assassin without monk support can solo Shiro completely (though it's not fast enough to get masters in Cantha). The last time I went with a guild team to Gate of Madness, I had much trouble trying to keep Shiro alive while the rest of the team was capping the shrines...--Jorx 13:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Bug?
I took my party (3 hero, 4 hench, and me) to Cyndr to get slaughtered. I spent thirty attempts to try and kill that "easy" boss. I found a few things that were interesting. 1.) Cyndr will stop attacking a hero if the player goes into it's range even if it is casting Pyroclastic Shot. 2.) It will leave the healer alone if there is another target around it. 3.) It will not attack heroes if they are flagged around it if a player is not in range of it. Needless to say, it has taken me three nights and probably one hundred attempts to not get slaughtered but I keep failing miserably. I have also attempted to use the strategy from the forums and also the wiki, but they are no help defeating that beast. --Mrxaero 18:48, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Triple Touch rangers was key for me, made it a million times easier. I was a monk, i brought all three touch ranger heroes, 2 healers, blood henchie, and the last is your choice. I brought earth. I too did it a million times, spend 2 hours trying to kill Cyndr at 60dp. Was a piece o cake when i brought 3 touch rangers :/ shoulda done it earlier COLDshiver 21:16, 7 September 2007 (CDT)

Lifestealing
Anyone having problems with this guy just bring a bunch of life stealing skills on heros. Killed the guy in about 30 seconds with 3 necro heros, Eve, and me as a touch ranger. Necros were half blood spikers and had wards/rit protect spirits for support.--Alari 22:44, 8 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Three Grenth's Balance spikers works even better, if you have the right setup. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:47, 8 September 2007 (CDT)
 * His life is pretty low for a wurm, he shames real wurms like Maw and Desert Wurms who have hax life totals. --Blue.rellik 00:53, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Yup agreed lol. I completed it with two guildies and heroes and no special team set-up whatsoever. The funny thing was that as we entered one of the guildies stopped moving for a while (I was guessing it was some RL emergency) and literally as he came back only a few moments later he said something along the lines of: "Huh? What happened?" The boss was already dead hehe. Liselle Morrow 11:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I second this, when doing this mission with heroes/henches alone, necros are key. I ran with a basic setup of 3 lifestealers with BiP, added necro as my own secondary for a few more steals and filled out the rest with the healers, Aidan and Eve. Rit spirits would probably have made it even easier, but it's definitely doable with just 3 plain necros. --Bishop 23:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

A less spectacular, but also less specialised method is to bring a necromancer hero with Order of the Vampire allowing physical damage dealers to chip away at Cyndr's health. (The extra healing can also be useful on the way in, and the Necro can be given direct lifesteals to gain back the sacced health between Orders.) Draxynnic 01:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Free help and Fandom
I love this dude!! My favorite boss. I will help anyone with free help, after all a chest and a chance to defeat one of the three greatest monsters ingame.
 * Who would you say are the other two greatest? Shadowlance 01:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Maw the Mountain Heart and Frostmaw the Kinslayer? Alex1991gw 00:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Lifestealing
Myself and a friend plus x2 heros had lifestealing and took it down in less than a minute too, we had a shameful -60 and waited for it to spawn nr budger and then we hid around the corner near to the res shrine and spammed lifesteals with it's carpace up until it's death :D It went down pretty fast. T1Cybernetic 12:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

New bug
I tried to kill this boss with a PUG, we nearly killed it after the first time its carapace went down then after that we couldn't damage it at all even with the carapace down. It also didn't attack us as it seemed permanantly knocked down. /resign - 79.68.123.238 15:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it wasn't dead? Sometimes you have to go touch the stone pedestal after you kill it for the chest to spawn.  --Blackdog 17:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Bit late replying, it was definitely still alive. I could attack it. - 79.74.72.111 12:06, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I had the same bug today, with a h/h team full of spirits. It stopped attack at a moment, i didn't even noticed, i was running for kegs. Armor went down, and nothing could hurt him. Only bloodsong did. I finnaly let Bloodsong kill it, since all my attempts to break the armor were useless.Kidini 13:01, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Pain Inverter
Does killing this guy work if you cast Pain Inverter on him? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.84.72.24 (contribs) 06:17, December 10, 2007.
 * The key to Pain Inverter killing fast is when a monster uses skills that can do big damage to multiple targets. Like the example given on the skill's article "maximum damage is 80 for each time the enemy deals damage. If a foe deals 200 damage to a single target in one hit that foe will take 80 damage. However, if a foe uses Searing Flames and does 100 damage each to 4 characters, then it will take 4 × 80 = 320 damage.", since the three skills listed as being used by this monster are multiple-targetted, and being only a boss-like foe, believe that means it doesn't gain all the natural resistances a boss would, so would say very likely that PI will be effective. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 06:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Apparently it doesn't work that well, he can't be hexed when he still has his carapace, and once you remove the carapace he seems to be dazed. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cloud08540 (contribs) 02:27, December 11, 2007.
 * Drat! :( Was good in theory, less so in practice.--Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 02:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I was hoping to use that. He's a pain to kill. (always too lazy to sign in)
 * Hardly...check above - touch rangers will absolutely melt him. There's more than one way to skin a mountain heart, for lack of a better analogy.72.13.160.220 05:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hero/Hench Team tips
I used following team (not going to go for specifics use heros/skills you got with imagination):
 * Tahlkora Mo/Rt with shelter/union and protection spells
 * Gwen Me/Mo illusion/domination setup with interrupts, backfire/empathy and conjure phantasm for degen
 * Margrid R/Rt apply poison for degen, disrupting shot for interrupts, healing spring and shelter for fun.
 * Mhenlo
 * Lina
 * Cynn
 * Herta

I just placed heros and henchmen around the spot where cyndr usually appears first, near pedestal thingy. It's important to just keep them not mobbing up in small area. Then I just kept running the kegs. Degen hexes and poison work well if you have just enough healers and shelter spirit. I was playing pretty standard barrage/pet ranger myself with brutal weapon and union. The main idea is to stay alive while you slowly (or fast whatever) grind cyndr to death since it doesn't heal except small regeneration it has. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blackdog (contribs) 17:01, 19 April 2008.

Prot Bond revisited
Even when I took him down quick with lifesteal, I still thought Cyndr was somewhat hard. But now I'd put him lower on the difficulty list than the Undead Lich. At least he can summon help.

Two Monk Hero:

One Necromancer Hero:

(the only skills you really need are Prot Bond, Blessed Signet, and Blood Ritual, so if you don't have the rest that is OK, use whatever prot/divine/blood filler skills you have)

Take Mhenlo, Lina, Eve, and other Henchman of your choice. Player's profession doesn't matter at all; if you can play one of the above roles, that's fine. With Prot Bond reducing all damage to ~25, even the entire party being pummeled repeatedly by Pyroclasic Shot/Flame Burst is no problem. At most your Monks would lose 12 Energy, but with Blessed Signet and a battery Necro that shouldn't be a problem. Disabling their other spells would help if you do encounter problems for some reason. Run kegs back and forth, let Olias and Eve use their lifesteal, etc. and this is no problem.

If you were feeling really brave, try 55'ing Cyndr. :p (T/C) 02:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Just tried this, it worked fantastically ^_^ Cyndr was the easiest part of the dungeon, only the SF elementals posed any sort of problems but even then it wasn't too bad. Anyone who's having difficulty, use this Piggyboy 10:31, 19 April 2009 (UTC)