Talk:Lightbringer rank

Cleanup
This article is a mess. It is full of information that shouldn't be here but in the articles title, bounty, blessing, or elsewhere. It's redundant with these articles, all of them tell a bit, but none does it properly. I'll try to sort it out. -- 08:28, 2 November 2006 (CST)

Lightbringer

 * Note: The content of this talk section has been moved here from Talk:Title --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 05:34, 16 November 2006 (CST)

Just noting, I've made 3 additions to the Lightbringer title today. These have been done by a guildy who has stayed in an area where it can be farmed for a continued amount of time - normally, rezoning after 100 makes you unable to continue and instead told to visit some guy in some town. I'm not a saboteur. Honest. I'm a noob using wiki, but my IGN is Almas Darksoul if for any reason you want evidence. Although I can't give you any, because my guildy is still in there farming.

I disagree with the notes in the Lightbringer and the Sunspear title track secitons that achieving the titles at the 15k level is not possible yet. Has there been official word for ANet on this ? I have seen none. The fact that the community has not yet figured out how to achieve this does not make it impossible. I suggest changing the wording to reflect that it is unknown how to achieve these ranks as we have not yet figured out how to receive further blessings. Gwm 12:20, 2 November 2006 (CST)

Added Holy Lightbringer at 50,000 points: http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3731/22oj1.jpg --Celeborn 15:20, 5 November 2006 (CST)

Article says ''In return, when displayed, this title gives you 1 point of damage reduction and 5% extra damage against demons per rank in the title. Note that the damage reduction applies to all damage, not just physical.'' Could this damage reduction addition be interpreted to mean damage from all sources, or just demon-caused elemental and physical damage? --Mira 01:28, 6 November 2006 (CST)

its all dmg from abbadons demons(not dijinn)...(im pretty sure). do we have a max on the lightbringer title yet? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.200.105 (contribs).

Added Holy Lightbringer as Max level: http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8860/titreenmf7.jpg TheYang 07:35, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Four?
From guildwars.com:

"Four "No Attribute" skills available in Vabbi also become more powerful as you gain Lightbringer ranks." (http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/gwnfeatures/titletracks.php).

Four? Any of you max-rank folks have access to more than two skills? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2006 (CST)


 * It's probably a typo, but they also may have accidentally (or intentionally) let another feature of the upcoming major update slip out. They might be counting the lightbringer title effect as a skill, the Seeker of Whispers calls it a skill, but that would still leave one skill unaccounted for. -- Gordon Ecker 23:32, 24 November 2006 (CST)


 * I say its a typo, unless they have 2 new skills comming this weekend(along with the 9th rank that the site also mentions). I have it maxed out "Holy Lightbringer (8)" and it gave me my first title towards Kind of a Big Deal, meaning it is maxed(along with it saying it is). But again, there are no new skills that I have obtained. Remember, as I said, the site also says there are 9 lightbringer ranks, but infact the game maxes it out at rank 8. So i'm fairly certain they are wrong about the 4 total skills, again, this is excluding anything that comes this weekend, so we shall see. --Mwpeck 20:51, 29 November 2006 (CST)


 * Well guys, this may be late, but people need to know. I talked some rank 8's about this and here's what they said about lightbringer skills. Two are attained at rank 8, one of which giving you temporary invincibility to Abbadon's servants, according to them. This was a few hours before the DoA update took effect so I suspect two possibilities: A)Somehow this three people all knew each other and thought it would be funny to tell people you get 2 skills at rank 8 and coordinated their stories. The site also has a typo. or B)There are in fact 4 skills. Use that information how you will. -- Demonic Peaches


 * There are three skills atm, the article is about sunspear and lightbringer skills, so sunspear rebirth signet counts for one of these too. The other one is either up and coming or is the effect of the title.  :: Soqed Hozi :: 


 * I'd just like to note that the Vial of Holy Water in Nundu Bay mission might count as one. Slvrwolf 10:26, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

+Damage Modifier
"For each Rank of Lightbringer, you deal 5% more damage to..." So does that include spell damage(assuming the damage is affected by armor/level, ie fire magic, not lifesteal)? I'm fairly sure +5%/rank affects physical/weapon damage, through testing on my paragon. I guess here's a list of damage types to test, and easiest way to test: --8765 20:38, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * Elemental damage for spells (ie fire magic)
 * Holy dmg (ie Smiting prayers spells)
 * Tested and it works, the "lightbringer effect" does in fact increases the damage of smiting prayers spells (like balthazar aura)
 * Light/Dark dmg from wands/staves
 * Shadow dmg (ie Shadow strike, necro spells)
 * Chaos dmg (ie Chaos storm, Illusionary weaponary)
 * Set(?) dmg (ie Needling shot, Distracting shot)
 * Tested and it works. The title increases the damage to the surrounding enemies when I use Death Blossom Glenn 15:30, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Pet dmg (probably not affected)
 * I'm fairly certain it applies to damage as defined by the damage article (just read the first paragraph, don't worry about the math unless you want to). From personal experience, I can e.g. say that Jaundiced Gaze will hurt the target more when your health is higher (unspecified damage) than when the target's health is higher (leech). 134.130.4.46 04:44, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * It affects Energy Burn, Shatterstone (both initial and delayed damage) and Vial of Purified Water, but doesn't affect Empathy, Backfire or Wastrel's Worry. -- Gordon Ecker 01:37, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * It doesn't affect Fragility either. -- Gordon Ecker 01:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * Because it's not you dealing the damage, it's the hex. Shido 22:37, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * The same is true for the second set of damage from Shatterstone, but the Lightbringer title still affects that. It probably also affects other delayed damage elemental hexes. -- Gordon Ecker 23:01, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Conquering COMMANDER?
Is this a bug? Seems to be out of line. Almost every title always keeps one of its words the same, thats how its distinguished by. It seems ANet mixed Conquering Lightbringer and Sunspear Commander to produce Conquering Commander ^^ &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.80.236.118 (contribs).
 * Could be a typo &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   03:25, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * No, it's fine. I can confirm the name. --Kai Neah Nung 15:01, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yes it definitely exists, whether anet made a mistake is another matter. --Lemming64 18:49, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * with Arena's penchant for puns and in-jokes, probably an intentional play on Command and Conquer --Falseprophet 12:06, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Showing the title?
Do you need to show your title to gain the damage modifier? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yes4me (contribs).
 * Yes &mdash; Skuld 11:48, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * It's also of note that once at max Lightbringer, displaying KoaBD does NOT give you the effect--Absolut 12:29, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Lightbringer farm
Do we have a page mentioning where is the best locations to farm for lightbringer?Icyangel Strawberry 13:59, 11 December 2006 (CST)
 * I don't think so, but it would be nice. --84.163.188.27 10:38, 12 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'd rather not add a section about it, because chances are it'll be over-farmed after short time, and nerfed by ANet. ;) But ... pssst ... if you don't tell anybody, ... a fertile acre for LB points is The Mirror of Lyss, farming Elementals starting from Dzagonur Bastion (Location). --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 11:24, 12 December 2006 (CST)


 * Nooo! you outted my secret spot ;) -- James Sumners 13:30, 14 December 2006 (CST)


 * The information about killing resurrected Roaring Ethers is no longer(?) correct. The resurrected Roaring Ethers do not give LB points. Tested and confirmed to not work by myself just a few minutes ago -- Skeeve2010


 * Yeah, I tested it a couple weeks ago. It certainly did work originally. I was definitely getting points off resurrected Ethers when I first discovered the area. -- James Sumners 23:06, 21 January 2007 (CST)


 * Not putting it on the main page at the moment (Build is being tested and may be deleted or voted unfavored regardless of how well it works), but in the Stygian Veil you can use this build if you're a Necromancer. I've gotten a good number of points that way. Zdain 18:06, 6 January 2007 (CST)

just a quick question, when should somebody start farming elsewhere, eg in the realm of torment and where would be the best place to do it? whisper me ingame if you dont want to post it here :P--A Glitch 13:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Well, i want to add something, first if you want to farm easily, west of Dazgonur or Quest given by order member at chantry are good but if you want to make a lot try the secret domain from the gate of secret, at the starting you have a bounty for margonith then a lot of more bounty are spread around, if you clean up the entire zone it's around 700 points. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kemydes (contribs).

Another note: Should we wikilink the titles of the various farming suggestion areas? With the exception of Resplendent Makuun, most of them don't actually link to the article about them. I don't know if linked titles is kosher, though, so I didn't want to link them wrongly. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tharkun (contribs).
 * Done :) namnatulco 08:20, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Hm... the tip says that Mezies and Titans are for more 'aventuring' players. Titans are a bit annoying, but Mezies can be een easier than Margonites. You get much more points by killing them too, and it does not take much more time to do. Mithran 20:16, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Remove farming statistic
I removed the farming time statistics from the article, for two reasons: User:Glamtre put the statistics back in, so I'd like to discuss how to proceed. Should we keep the statistic, improve/explain it better, or remove it completely? Move the whole farming section to a separate guide? Please comment. -- 04:29, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) It is not clear how the numbers are calculated. How many points per run are assumed? (The number varies, due to the foes using rezsig.) What does "s/p" stand for? "Seconds per point"? If that's the case, the numbers don't match. I'm puzzled.
 * 2) The statistic is not really useful, IMO. All you need to know is how many points per run. The rest is simple math.
 * It doesn't look like it will get much better so it looks like it would be fine on that page. I agree with the simple maths person. Xeon 04:47, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * Xeon, I understood neither of your two sentences. Please reword for dummies like me. ;) --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 05:02, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * Neither, what was i thinking >_>. A translation would be. I don't see that farming spot getting expanded with more data in the future and because it wont be expanding, it does not require a whole article dedicated to it. It is only a short section. The second part is, the table is not required for such basic data. I hate the way wiki talk pages work -_-. Xeon 08:54, 15 December 2006 (CST)


 * I've found that you can get about 90 to 100 points per run of this area if you even half way try to do it right. If you actually let the Ethers rez each other properly then you can get a few more. -- James Sumners 10:00, 15 December 2006 (CST)

Just to be clear I (User:Glamtre) was simply editing the tables to fix a formatting problem and happened to do it at the exact same time that User:Tetris L was removing them. When I received the message that there was a conflict I assumed I was the one who accidentally removed tables and added them back. (I have limited experience in conflict resolution on this Wiki so I was not sure how tell who had made which edits.) As for what to include, I think a simple statement as to the count (#) of creatures, including a reference to their use of Resurection Signets, and a total of the points possible (a spread from 2 x Creatures to 2 x Creatures + Resurection based kills) in a single run would suffice.--Glamtre 01:37, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Protective Spirit
How does this combine with prot spirit? Like if some1 is 55ing in the realm of torment. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.111.11 (contribs).
 * Good idea, but I've just tried it with both Protective Bond and Protective Spirit but it didn't work. -[ Adul ] 13:17, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * HOWEVER, I've just tried another thing... I swiched my Lightbringer Title off, activated Protective Bond, then switched the title back on, and heureca! I took 0 damage instead of the usual 2! :) It works! -[ Adul ] 13:21, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * shhhhh before they nerf it.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 13:29, 15 January 2007 (CST)'
 * I ran a test and figured our that there is a period of time in which the lightbringer effect takes place after protective spirit (causing no or less damage to be taken). The amount of time it took for the damage to stop being reduced was a random time; either 35, 30, or 25 seconds.  This means that if you were to reapply your lightbringer title every 25 seconds, the damage reduction could be kept up constantly.  Although, essence bond will not activate if you take 0 damage because of the lightbringer title.  User:Ressmonkey
 * I did more research in a different location at a different time of day and recorded all of my 30 trials. They can be seen here. Ressmonkey 21:12, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * Wow, this is a strange conclusion. It seems there are always more aspects of the game to discover, whether or not they were implemented on purpose. :P —[ Adul ] 11:59, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

Range
What is the range to recieve LB points? I was thinking that if a team of 8 split it could farm the place outside of dzagonur twice as fast. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.111.11 (contribs).
 * map range -- Xeon 06:33, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * actually im not sure. I got sunspear point from the other side of an area once. I think this needs to be tested.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 16:34, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * ...map range = the entire zone. -- Xeon 04:41, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * ok, im confused. i thought you meant inside the "sphere of influence"--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 16:44, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Nightfallen Jahai Farm
I've learned that you can farm a huge amount of Lightbringer points in Nightfallen Jahai, the first playable area once you get into the realm of torment. Take The Missing Patrol in the Gate of Torment and complete it once. Then, take The Oddbodies (Quest) from Captain Yithlis once The Missing Patrol is completed, but never complete The Oddbodies. When you get within aggro range of Captain Yithlis, his whole group of 5 will become allies. With Yithlis' group, you can roam around Nightfallen Jahai kicking demon butt wherever you go, with relative ease. To get the maximum benefit, take all the bonuses from the various shrine scouts before killing mobs of any given type (i.e. get the margonite bonus before killing margonites). Clearing the whole area should net you somewhere from 450-700 or so lightbringer points, depending on what other quests you have active.

Beware of one quest, Breaking the Broken, the Master Level quest for this area. If you take this quest, you can get the most lightbringer points, but there will be some monstrously huge mobs that will be very difficult to take down with anything other than a full lightbringer party of real people (each one equipped with Lightbringers Gaze, and preferably with a couple Echo-Gazers). Between duplicated demon mobs, random spawns (which are also larger than normal groups, if you choose to take them on), and the additional mobs from Breaking the Broken, killing everything in the area with all bonuses should net you around 700 lightbringer points.

Clearing the whole area without Breaking the Broken usually takes 45 minutes or so on average, assuming you have Yithlis' group with you. Without his group, it can take much longer. Don't forget to go into all the nooks and corners to find straggling mobs. I've managed to get about half-way to Lightbringer lvl 5 from lvl 4 in a few hours by farming this area (a total of 3100 farmed points @ 600 points per run). Jrista 01:58, 24 February 2007 (CST)

(NOTE THIS IS ON DOUBLE POINT WEEKEND) With hard mode on having only "Oddbodies" and "They Only Come Out at Night" active I was able to farm 4476 points in one run taking about 1.5 hours. Simply come from gate of torment, get the monolith blessing, kill them, then get to the oddbodies to add em to the group. (You may have to kill a group of margonites without the blessing since they get in the way). Take the demon/monster blessing next to them and start killing demons..slowly and carefully. Do not take the path that would finish oddbodies or the hidden spawns will straight up kick your ass. That said you can make your way to the titan shrine and then to the far south east margonite shrine and then wipe the map out. Leave "They only come out at night" until last, clear the path first (OR not depends on how balsy you are). If you kill everything including bosses you could probably break 5500 (I left the titan boss). There are five bosses total, plus an extra 2 from the "They Only Come out at night" quest. (To be fair I started doing this at LB5 so it may be pretty tough below that)Razamatraz 21:56, 21 April 2007 (CDT) --MY team build is ME Balth Derv encahntment dropper,Tahl Heal prot split, Olias FG MM, SF Nuker, Khim, Mhenlo, Cynn, Sogolon although I've done it with Devona instead of SogolonRazamatraz 21:58, 21 April 2007 (CDT) Razamatraz 22:10, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Damage
Does the extra damage work on traps? Lyra Valo 12:20, 28 February 2007 (CST)
 * probably because you are still dealing the damage &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ressmonkey (contribs).


 * Yes, it does. --84-175 (talk) 03:00, 5 March 2007 (CST)

AFK Farming?
I have read from somewhere about being able to AFK farm for this title, is it true or has ANet allready nerfed it? B.N 02:52, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It was nerfed waaaaaaaaaay back: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20061130 &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   02:59, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, that was long ago! Haha, well now I know where it went. B.N 14:27, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Max Rank
Is it possible to get the max rank ? Is it the priest continue to give bounties ? --Benoit flageol 21:24, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Lightbringer rank lists max lightbringer as 8.--Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 21:33, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Where can you recieve the blessings at the higher levels?
 * Only the low end (Kournan, I think) Whispers Informants who give the 1-point LB hunts are shut off. The rest of them still give 2-point hunts regardless of your LB level.Fourth Horseman 19:22, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

Damage Reduction
Unless I missed a comment in the article (in which case, it needs to be made more clear), a note needs to be added about damage reduction. The damage reduction only applies for a couple dozen hits (or approximately 10-20 seconds, I'm not sure) after you activate the title. This can easily be seen by running a 55 into anywhere in DoA. As I activate the title, the -5s drop to -1s...and then soon after, the -5s resume. I'm not sure whether this is a bug or an obnoxious design, or an obnoxious interaction of the LB title with Protective Spirit. --Carmine 01:34, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It could be tested against Heralds of Nightmares, as they inflict consistant damage with Shatter Enchantment. -- Gordon Ecker 01:51, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

maybe because you activate the title after you have cast protective spirit the damage reduction works but i was tinking that if you cast another protective spirit the damage reduction will be before the effect from protective spirit takes place and therefore giving no advantage. i do not have a 55 hp monk so i can not test it but this was the only idea i could make up which how it might come &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.84.136.98 (contribs).

Hero and Henchmen Build
Can anyone suggest a decent hero and henchmen build for Domain of Secrets? I'm currently using 2 eles with SF and a Necro MM, 2 monk hench, devona and sogolan, I'm an ele runnign SF build. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 * I take Odurra for interrupts and Eve for some energy management cause of the area effect. Pretty much same hero choice. Sirocco 12:19, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I've been taking myself and Zhed as SF eles, Koss with a standard sword build, a Word of Healing hero monk with 2 hex removal skills, Sogolon, a hench monk (Khim I think) Eve and Devona. Lightbringer's Gaze gives you an area interrupt as well as the reasonable damage. I always use Steam in my SF build for the blinding condition. Consider your energy needs, especially if you're tackling A Flickering Flame, as the Arms of Insanity cast Quickening Zephyr to really cause you energy problems! I like the Glyph of Lesser Energy and Fire Attunement combo with Glowing Gaze. --  Karalin [[image:Fireball.jpg|16px]] (talk) 08:52, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I generally run an Ele/Mesmer build with Savannah Heat, Tenai's Heat, Searing Heat, and Glyph of Lesser Energy as the core skills, and the other 4 consisting of Immolate, LBG, Cry of Frustration, and FDjH (these 4 can be swapped out for whatever you're comfortable with); the hired help consists of Mhenlo, Khim, Herta, and Sogolon, while I have Master of Whispers (MM), Koss and Melonni (tanks) filling out the group. The AoE isn't nearly the liability you might expect thanks to demons, monoliths and Margonites using skills that force them to stay put, and Master's minions give you a fair amount of time to bring them down;  use interrupts to cancel healing on the warriors and rangers and damage prevention across all the Margonites.  Menzies' soldiers can dish out a lot of pain versus this team; prioritize the Shadow Elements.  Titans tend to chase the team around, making AoE useless; take them on only if you want the handful of points they'll provide. SarielV 14:30, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Bug Report
I don't know that this is necessarily a bug. It seems as if it's just a nerf that's a bit buggy still. I think it seems logical that they'd nerf the title usage for "invicimonks" to make it a bit more fair. Just a thought. I see lots of "Bug Alerts" and whatnot on this wiki that really don't seem to be bugs, or they just outright aren't bugs and are simply just nerfs.


 * It's either a bug or a documentation error. Either way, the effect's behaviour is inconsistant with its description. -- Gordon Ecker 20:53, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

spirits/minions
does the damage increase/reduction apply to summoned spirits and minons also? Vanessa 10:48, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

Domain of Secrets
Toroxus has twice removed the section on Domain of Secrets farming, and provided no reason to have done so. The second removal has violated the GW:1RV policy, and a notice to this effect has been placed on his talk page. I will wait a short amount of time to hear an objection, but if I see none, I will replace the Domain of Secrets section in the article. -- Imbril Shadowfire  21:01, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If it's repeated blanking, it's vandalism. Just restore it and put a ban notice on that user's page. The admins will take care of it from there. --8765 21:22, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It could be an honest mistake from a new user, and I think we should give Toroxus the benefit of the doubt for now. -- Gordon Ecker 21:46, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * note the hard mode update REDUCED THE NUMBER AND SIZE of the mobs.  ~ Soqed Hozi ~  14:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That was after the section was removed. Although the sections still need updating to reflect the new monster counts. -- Gordon Ecker 19:36, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Domain Of Secrets - 2500 pts?
I do that farm all the time and theres no way I've been getting 2500 pts per run on hard mode this weekend. I'd say its maybe 1750 pts at most, and thats including double reward. When I get a chance, I'm going to do the run and see exactly how many points I get. Could some of you guys do the same and let me know what you get? Make sure you post how much it was with the double, and then cut it in half and say how much it would be normally. We may want to check the other locales too. Since hard mode came in, this thread it just full of bad info. --Archmage 13:07, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's not correct. Let's say there's 20 groups of margs, just to intentionally try to match their numbers, 20* 7 margs per group* 6 pts/kill* 2 bonus + 12 bonus pts boss kills= 1692. Plus, it's not worth trying to get the monolith hunt, since there's huge number of monoliths that'll you kill without the hunt accepted. --8765 13:41, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Weird bug
Ok, my brother just had this very weird bug: he just made Sunspear Castellan, and now he cant get any lightbringer blessings (normal mode). Any confirmation? namnatulco 16:20, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I can confirm that the bounties for this title are linked to your Sunspear rank. Upon reaching Castellan while exploring Kourna, I can no longer get the blessings for Lightbringer. I don't yet know about Vabbi or the further regions at this point. HanokOdbrook 17:34, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * After Castellan you can only get Sunspear bounties in hard mode. -- Gordon Ecker 22:36, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * We are talking about Lightbringer bounties on rank 2 (my brother's rank). He has Sunspear 8, but can not get lightbringer bounties. namnatulco 04:37, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Odd ... I heard that there used to be a similar bug with Spearmarshal. Which regions has he tested it in? If he has access to hard mode, is it possible to receive Lightbringer bounties there? -- Gordon Ecker 05:40, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry if I'm being a tad patronising, but just to be sure have him talk to the Seeker of Whispers in Chantry of Secrets to make sure that he isn't offering your brother a new toy. If he also happened to increase to LB2 in that time then the Whispers Informants may stop offering blessings until you talk to him. RossMM 08:14, 22 April 2007 (CDT)