User talk:Randomtime

Echo, Echo, Echo
^See header. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:26, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was nice and quiet here, you've disturbed it --  Random Time  15:34, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * As per my UnAnswers talk page: Moo! --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 16:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Get these cows out of may talk page, they'll mess up the decorations --  Random Time  16:23, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Job queue graph
Could you please copy the "Embed code for graph:" for your Job queue graph to MediaWiki:job queue graph? That would let us embed the graph on wiki pages, like this: job queue graph

Job queue graph

Thanks, -- ◄mendel► 07:16, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't seem to work --  Random Time  09:12, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * You only copied the code to embed the Numbr, not the graph. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 12:27, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I fail --  Random Time  12:32, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the both of you! -- ◄mendel► 21:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Clean up after yourself :P
You forgot to check. You should do a bot run to update them to File:Lightbringer.jpg. (I can't run AWB at work due to firewall.) &mdash;Dr Ishmael  15:44, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks - have ran the bot, Wikia still hasn't sorted the AWB problems, and this database dump is old. --  Random Time  17:29, August 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can copy the list from the WLH page to a text editor, find/replace to remove the '(image link) (← links)' stuff, then paste it directly into AWB's list panel. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 17:41, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can, but the links on WLH don't have the image on them in these cases, as I've already delinked them --  Random Time  17:47, August 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 18:27, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

#sub:
. -- ◄mendel► 11:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't see how this would be useful --  Random Time  13:45, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you wanted to do with your substring template anyway, but it was a good excuse to mess around. :) -- ◄mendel► 18:33, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, I was attempting to see (by example) if there was any way to get a template to subst: itself. As I thought, it was impossible --  Random Time  18:42, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for hiding the revisions. riyen 18:08, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries, it's your userspace --  Random Time  22:22, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia's image fail
Deleting and reuploading won't work, I've tried it before. Wikia keeps the thumbnails around even after an image is deleted, and if they persisted before, they'll continue to persist when you upload a "brand-new" image. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 20:30, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

centre looks neater IMO. A lot of the right content space isn't being used
[ Centered] looks fine, but of course, there won't be that much room for right content space after 3 November ;-) &mdash;Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 22:04, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * You forget that this content gets moved (if we can). But generally, yes, that table looks fine in Oasis. -- ◄mendel► 23:31, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you!
As AFK User_talk:Felix_Omni pointed out, nobody has thanked you yet for all your trouble and time. As I support the move, I would like the thank you. Thank you!one1 Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:56, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aww, shucks - I don't think i've spent as much time as the others on it, though --  Random Time  17:05, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * +1 A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K is pro-AWA! 17:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

"Ishy: Get on IRC (please?)"
Sorry, IRC is blocked at my workplace. I'll be home in about 30 minutes or so. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 21:38, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * See you then, then --  Random Time  21:40, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Eeerrrrh, I have to admid something; I saw your birthday on the @Wikia. I am really ashamed, but since the watchlist birthday template doesn't work (for me) I had to go over there, and take a peek.
But, none of that matters, cause IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY!!!11!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!111 Also, you happy now? I coulnd't make the headline any longer.... Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:55, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the template is broken because the string functions are limited here; that's being fixed, hopefully, because it breaks other things as well. --◄mendel► 15:15, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

==To the person who post above me, I would like to note the following: (That is assuming, that you would eventually check this, in which case it is highly doubtful because this is not in fact your userpage, so in which case you never see this, feel free to ignore it, however if you do see this, following message is for you, Arnout, and for your eyes only, that's right Randomtime, do not read this section, it's for Arnout, not you.), oh wait, also happy birthday.== See header.--Łô√ë îğá †ħŕášħ 08:10, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Giga, how'd you do that? I coulnd cramp any more letters in the header? I'm using Chrome. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm on firefox and I use a proper edit window.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Ho ho ho!]]îğá †ħŕášħ 09:26, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't use the "new section" form. Just edit the page normally and type your own header.  (Notice that [ Giga's edit] didn't produce a "New section: /* bla bla */" edit summary - it used your header because he edited that section.)  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 14:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Protip: use "new section", ignore the header input box, and make your own header anyway (as in a normal edit window). Also, happy birthday². --◄mendel► 15:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations!
You have won an honorable mention in the Create-A-Card contest!--Łô√ë <font color="Red">îğá <font color="Green">†ħŕášħ 09:26, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I almost blocked you...
But that was because I misklicked when trying to go to your talkpage to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! (I'm just re-using this header from UA to impress Arnaut and F1 :P ) --El Nazgir 12:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * try spelling my name right, El Nazgir. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:50, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * : P - thanks for the 3 different birthday messages in 3 different places. --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  18:27, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Happy birdday :> --Vipermagi 18:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy happy birthday! From me to you! Happy happy birthday! On irc too! Ariyen 18:44, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto :D -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Isk8   (T/C) 18:59, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy birfday!– User Balistic Pve sig.png<font color="#7777cc">alistic 23:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Scythe
Out of curiosity, if I had asked you four days ago to kindly revert yourself on [ this edit], would you have done it? --◄mendel► 15:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you were in the dicussion when that had heppened, then I think it would have turned out differently - and so I doubt I'd have done it. If you'd had asked me after the fact, and presented your points, then I'd have also reverted --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  21:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your prompt and straightforward reply. For clarification, I take "I doubt I'd have done it" to mean that you would not have made your edit in the first place? --◄mendel► 22:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

CSS
It still wasn't working because you had the open-comment tag backwards as well. /* Asterisks go inside the slashes, like this. */ &mdash;Dr Ishmael  13:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, really? I suck. (I've got it working in my personal CSS now, but thanks for the tip) --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  16:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

VSTF
19:36 	(User rights log). . Sannse (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Randomtime from (none) to VSTF (New VSTF memeber :))

Well? --◄mendel► 22:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * What does that mean? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png|link=User:Felix Omni]] 23:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It means Randomtime is an unpaid minion of Wikia now. --◄mendel► 00:13, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * What? Heresy! Where? --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 00:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * What the hell why [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png|link=User:Felix Omni]] 00:58, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * To be fair, anyone contributing here is an unpaid minion of Curse and everyone contributing at GW@W are also unpaid minions. Curse, at least in theory, has offered to compensate the wiki by allowinh it to be hosted without unduly imposing requirements. Wikia, in contrast (as I have noted many times) no longer offers free hosting for wikis.


 * And, to be fair, if folks are going to contribute at all, it's good that they have ppls like RT volunteering to protect their efforts (as part of the Volunteer Spam & Tardiness Patrol). That an undeserving, ham-fisted, Dilbertesque, corporate ycch like Wikia benefits is, alas, an unfortunate side-effect. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 01:54, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I havn't sold out, I'm still RT, just RT who can help out at wikis and block spammers, I don't lose any part of my ablility to criticise Wikia, or anything like that. --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  07:16, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

RT is a Voltaic Spear Test Farmer? Pushing the boundaries of modern farming tactics, leaving no skill combo untouched... it's good to see there are still pioneers out there. --Macros 09:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for taking the time to delete various surplus to requirements pages in my user space. I appreciate it. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:47, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries, I wanted to test out some code anyway. --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  22:51, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

How does it feel to be a Wikia tool?
I am referring to this, of course: the wiki community in the shape of a bureaucrat/admin (demoted by MS Manley for redirected pages to encourage users to move to another wiki) decided to redirect some pages to a blog page in order to alert contributors that this wiki is no longer maintained, comparable to pvxwiki. I have looked at the discussion on the blog, and there doesn't seem to be community consensus to undo the redirects - it's not in the community interest, but in Wikia's interest to have them reverted.

Where is your "I'm VSTF, I'm helping communities" stance that you had before? You're shilling for Wikia interests and walking over the community. (If you can point me to some community consensus that I've overlooked, I'll happily apologize.) --◄mendel► 20:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * If you accept, Mendel, as you have, that Wikia has the right to force a fork (rather than allow a move), I don't see how it's unreasonable that Wikia revert any attempt to end-run that policy by hiding or nerfing existing content. PvX@Wikia doesn't redirect every piece of content to a single page; it uses a site-announcement that points to the gwpvx.


 * I stopped contributing to Wikia partly because I strongly disagree with their stance that the content belongs to them and cannot be moved out of their domain. But I don't see anything inappropriate about RT's actions: as long as Wikia allows site notices and/or a template reminding ppls that the page/site isn't well-maintained and where the original contributors can be found, I think they are being as fair to the community as they know how. When communities decided that they were best served by moving, Wikia didn't allow it. The corporation has made a distinction between community and content; redirects bypass the content.


 * Accordingly, RT is no more a shill for Wikia's interests than you are for actively supporting GW@Wikia. Since I would assume you don't believe yourself to be a corporate tool, I think you already owe RT an apology. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Notifying a community is fine, removing content (no matter how small or non-existent a community is) is only disruptive to the wiki at Wikia.
 * You may know ShoutWiki's down at the moment, and they've lost quite a bit of their database. This is a shame, and I hope they get up and running again (apart from AWA trolls, there's nothing bad about wikis at shoutwiki) - but in this case, communities may find that they want to move back to Wikia, if the site's been vandalized, then they can't. Yes, it serves Wikia's commercial interests, no I don't really care about that - I'm certainly not in this role because of that.
 * From a meta level, if Wikia looks bad, is vandalized by ex-communities, it makes all wikis look bad. I don't take this position lightly, and I it hurts me to know that some people don't like me because of it (in particular, Solar Dragon has taken a large dislike to me) - if there's anything you feel I should be doing better, let me know. --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  21:53, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * TEF, there is no notification of the fork on that wiki - not on the mainpage, not in the community corner, no place. FH14 comments RT's action like this: "So basically now that the spam-ridden pages have been opened up again by the lovely people running wikia ಠ_ಠ [...]". I agree that it is in Wikia's best interest to have the content available (as far as I know, it always was, just that the latest revision of the page was a redirect).
 * Two sections up, RT states: "I havn't sold out, I'm still RT, just RT who can help out at wikis and block spammers", and he's not doing that in this case: he helps no one but Wikia, his concern (as you can see from his reply right here) is to make Wikia look good (though to Wikia, this doesn't extend to removing unlicensed images even from community central itself, or removing spam-ridden, unused, miscreated wikis from their database.
 * There is nobody who wants to move back to Wikia. If there was community consensus that there was, then ok, but it makes about as much sense as if curse went down now for a day and people decided to "go back" to pvx.wikia - the build there are outdated, the wiki is full of trolls, it's not worth the effort, and it endangers the userbase of the forked community. RT is helping Wikia, nobody else.
 * Randomtime used bot editing rights that he has as Wikia helper (VSTF) to silently undo a spate of edits on that wiki. In the 5 hours that followed, not a single user took advantage of that to update the wiki, and I doubt there'll be any more. Instead, that content now draws traffic away from the new fork and to the dead Wikia wiki. I can't think of anything he could have done to damage that community more. To be fair, Sarah Manley sounds as if she'd have found someone to revert those redirects sooner or later, but maybe she'd have forgotten about it.
 * My active support of gw@w consists of applying the "Wikia style" to it as much as possible, which is in Wikia's interests as well as ours, and to "simplify" the wiki as much as possible to a) make it work better with RTE and b) make it more manageable for the people who might pick it up after I'm gone, and c) distinguish it as much as possible from the monobook wikis. My "support" doesn't extend to keeping the content updated or to reporting the bugs that I find (unpaid labor for wikia). I also support the users that happen to still be there, but I do not support Wikia interests over user and community interests.
 * Randomtime has crossed a line I would not have crossed, in his position, and I want him to be aware of this because I consider him my friend. --◄mendel► 00:10, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not understand, mendel. Instead, that content now draws traffic away from the new fork and to the dead Wikia wiki. Uhh, yeah, the way you optimize GW@W content to keep it alive is the exact same thing via a different method. Keeping the content pretty, and easy to edit on a major (or has it died off that much after the fork?) wiki is far more pro wikia than just reverting a bunch of vandalism or whatever it is that RT was doing at the time. I also find that, what RT did is more of a harm to wikia than anything else. A ton of reverts at once would be a moderate increase to the job queue, and if the wiki is so dead no one will see them, then it's just wasted server load. ∵Scythe∵ 03:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Job queue entries are only created if the page is transcluded somewhere else. The majority of mainspace articles on an average wiki are not transcluded anywhere, so RT's revert spree (which was 100% in mainspace) would've had hardly any affect on the job queue. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh. I thought the job queue was comprised of edits that have not been viewed/manually purged or re-cached since the change. Then again, the probability of me being right on the internet is somewhere&lt;0.1% ;) ∵Scythe∵ 03:40, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You could like google shit and stuff. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png|link=User:Felix Omni]] 04:05, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * With shoutwiki down, I think others would consider other hosted wiki communities or buy their domain, etc., than to go back to Wikia. I think the wikis should have a choice as a whole to be moved away. Besides, Randomtime... Is it right for wikia to host copyrighted content and claim it as their own? I think not with the laws, but I'm quite unsure. Perhaps the government could look into that. I just thought that with Copyrights, you couldn't own someone else's work/copyright. In other words, I don't think they could own arenanet's game images, etc., that's hosted on wikia. Much less other wikis that's hosted there, such as Rift. However, it's up to wikia to run themselves into the ground. Ariyen 04:18, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there any point to this other than being a personal attack against RT? I really don't see how it's relevant here on this wiki or why it couldn't have been addressed in a private message.  Jink  05:24, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I am making a case that Randomtime is putting Wikia interests above community interests; any emotional language I have used says that and no more. As TEF points out, Wikia's interests are legitimate, so whether making my case constitutes a personal attack is debatable. However, since Randomtime holds a position of community trust here, I feel it is relevant to the community to be aware of this. I feel better discussing this "out in the open" than complaining about it on #gwiki, where RT may not have a chance to make his own case to all that might hear me complain. Sure, it could have been adressed in a private message, but GuildWiki talkpages are regularly used for semi-private messages and no-one minds. --◄mendel► 07:48, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I move to support Jink. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:55, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Just one question: Why do any of us care about RT's actions outside of this wiki and associated irc channel? RT's been on here forever, and has never made any negative intentions shown, or be make debilitating edits to the wiki intentional or otherwise. Stop poking him about what he wants to do off wiki.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash sig G.jpg]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 08:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand both sides and while I may agree in that it should be gone, I still feel that it should stay. So, I just feel that mendel is trying to understand Random and doesn't want a 1 on 1, in-case others may have same/similar inquiries. Hence, you have this section. I don't think it should be a big issue though, cause it's just an inquiry. Oh, the fact that it's here... and not on wikia sites... I feel it's due to wikia themselves and their actions. Not a lot of choices to put up a concern and rather where to put it, especially when not wanting bad consequences... Ariyen 08:53, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Just one question: if you don't care about this, why do you read it and reply? Why do any of us care about Oblivion? But yeah, I'll stop poking him if y'all take offense. Sheesh. --◄mendel► 10:03, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Right, I'm bothered by this in several ways (The "you" in this WoT is directed at Mendel, of course).

1) This has nothing to do with gwiki, and a private medium would have been preferable. I can understand that you'd prefer to discuss something like this publicly, but it's on a different wiki, on a different wikifarm even! RT has done nothing here to warrant the discussion being here, and calling a valuable contributor a (wikia) tool counts as a PA in my book. That he holds a position of trust here has absolutely nothing to do with his actions on wikia. If you have to discuss it, go do it on wikia, where it is actually relevant.

2) I seem to recall you condemning behavior similar to what RT reverted there. No I won't go around spending hours to look up where you said it, you know how much I dislike that discussion technique you (and some others) use. If it had been a simple notification, yes, you would have had a point. But outright removal of content for redirecting is vandalism, and something which has been punished severely by wikia so far, and I don't understand why anyone still tries to do it. We've had a very good transition, and I don't think we lost too many members who hadn't been inactive anyway, so why not do something more like that?

3) I don't condemn you for still being active on wikia or anything similar, but I don't understand how you can't see, as scythe imo correctly noted (in different wording), that leaving a wiki to decay from out-dated info is much better for a moved wiki, and worse for wikia than what in general you are doing to GW@W by making it easy for people to edit who stumble upon it. Wikia will never show enough interest to actually go in and do that, so you're actually actively pulling editors towards the GW@W site. Reverting vandalism trying to attract people to the new wiki is far away from anything like that. I wouldn't go as far as to call it hypocrisy, but your actions are a lot more Pro wikia than RT's were there. Sure, you still help some people, sometimes with moving or similar, and I don't mean that that's not worth anything or something, but if they come on a severely outdated wiki, which still has active contributors cleaning up things, giving an overal active impression, they'll stick around. If it's nothing more than an outdated wiki, they'll look for alternative sources of information, ending up on the moved wiki. While I'm not going to argue that RT's actions didn't directly help the community, replacing pages to redirect to a move page makes the community in general look bad.

4) "Just one question: if you don't care about this, why do you read it and reply? Why do any of us care about Oblivion?" - We read it and reply because you're more or less attacking a person we like and consider our friend. You may not see it as attacking, but I think most people here do, judging from the overall reactions. Why care about oblivion? Because I bet that that user mentioned oblivion somewhere (didn't see it, don't know where), asked for something, and RT helped him out. Why not go to some relevant wiki or something? because the initial discussion was here, and it'd be bloody moronic to go to some wiki where possibly neither of them are users. While I might not be making much sense with that last part, I'm trying to get across this point: If something happens, react to it on a relevant location. If someone mentions oblivion in a discussion, stay on the same communications platform and continue the discussion there. If someone does a lot of things on wikia, react to them there and don't go note it on a completely irrelevant location. I hope I'm clear enough with that.

I think I've gone over everything I wanted to note. --<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 14:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not bothered by what RT does on wikia, but I still like to know about it because I'm nosy. [[Image:Felix Omni Signature.png|link=User:Felix Omni]] 14:49, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * To repeat my point of 10:03, I am not going to post about this issue or similar here again.
 * It was not my intention to personally offend Randomtime, and if I did so, I apologize.
 * If you want to examine my role on gw@w, please do not do it on RT's talk. I've started a topic on User talk:Scythe, and if you repeat your complaint there, on my talkpage, or on yours, I'll gladly reply. --◄mendel► 15:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your responses - (even Mendel, even though I'd prefer not to be called a "Wikia tool" - I do prefer to know that people don't like my actions than for them to keep quiet about it) - many thanks for those who've supported me - I really appreciate that. Whilst GuildWiki is probably not the place for it - it's a good a place as any. I'm not going to do a wall of text - partially because El Nazgir has done a really good one above, and it'd be a shame if I duplicated that, but mostly because I don't really want to make this a drama war.
 * I think it's interesting that, if I wasn't on at the time, this wasn't a big deal at all - I assume Mendel just stumbled through the edits (I was marked as bot) - and thought to comment, but perhaps he's actively stalking me. If another VSTF member did this, would you have complained anywhere? Why?
 * Yes, I know - you know me, and you can directly affect me by sending a message (whereas you don't have the infuluence on other VSTF members) - and saying "someone else would have done it" doesn't excuse an action that you did, but - you jumping on me as soon as I do something like this seems like you've making a big deal about this because you want to. If I've got this completely wrong, and misjudged your motives, sorry - but it just sounds odd.
 * Mendel, I appreciate your input (yes, it was offensive, but I accept your apology) everyone else, thanks for your comments. I'll try to be more active here in the future. --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  19:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I was watching Sarah's talk on central a bit more closely because of Karate Jesus's recent post, and when the bit about deleted redirects caught my eye, I went to investigate and then found you'd had a hand in it. I'm not stalking you; I wouldn't know whether you have done something like this before or not. (How does one stalk people across Wikia?)
 * I wouldn't have said anything to anybody else of the VSTF because I don't know them that much, they'd just have dismissed it, except maybe for one other person I'm a bit more acquainted with, whom I might have sent a private message. --◄mendel► 21:40, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, sorry I misjudged your actions --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  21:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Since Randomtime has endorsed some of El Nazgir's points, here are some (short) thoughts:
 * (re 2) "But outright removal of content for redirecting is vandalism, and something which has been punished severely by wikia so far, and I don't understand why anyone still tries to do it." - F14 added a #redirect line as the first line of some articles on hetalia.wikia back in February. These are the edits that Randomtime reverted now. If anyone tracked back to the redirect page and hit "edit", they'd still have seen the content, and only needed to remove the first line. Most of these edits were done on February 10, and nobody complained about it or undid them until now, not even the two he redirected on February 1st. The effect of this is that search engine spiders will stop seeing this content, and thus hopefully index the new location over the Wikia wiki, which solves the biggest problem any wiki moving away from Wikia must face. Hetalia wiki got away with this for weeks, and would almost have gotten away with it completely. Personally, I find it unfair that Wikia can use the work of other people to wrangle a search engine status that doesn't belong to them. We are five times larger than hetalia archives and had attracted the attention of Wikia staff already, so the result of us attempting something like that would probably have been more alike to what happened at wowwiki, i.e. demotions all around. Btw, if you compare the quantcast data, guildwiki.org is approaching guildwars.wikia in pageviews, but is still far behind in people. The editors have moved, the readership mostly hasn't.
 * (re 3) "leaving a wiki to decay from out-dated info is much better for a moved wiki" - well, since most editors have moved, the information is indeed decaying. This is obvious, and sort of disproves your point. I think of the editors that do stuff on guildwars.wikia as falling into these categories:
 * Myself
 * GuildWiki editor who doesn't want their "life's work" to be presented in ugliness (e.g. Rose)
 * GuildWiki editor who doesn't feel welcome here
 * Wikia editor who edits several Wikia wikis and also plays Guild Wars
 * Editor who prefers dark "gaming" skin over light skin (I did suggest making a dark theme here, but nobody liked the idea)
 * Editor who doesn't know guildwiki has moved or realize it exists
 * Editor who likes fanfic (currently, mostly fictional login announcements)
 * Which of these can I even affect? Also, given my apparent ability to unintentionally alienate people, you ought to be doubtful about the impact I'm having by being active there. ;-P --◄mendel► 13:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not content to allow that to be the last word. Mendel still has yet to successfully make the initial case (although this has been obscured by the huge number of tangential issues raised). Mendel has not acknowledged that his original post was personally directed. Everything else above is moot. As I see it, there are five issues raised here:


 * Wikia is unfair, no question. The issue is: what steps can/should reasonable people take to address it? Hint: hiding content is not one of them.
 * Given that Wikia is unfair, what is a reasonable expectation of the the role of VTSF? Hint: reverting vandalism is always reasonable. (Does it matter when the vandalism occurred? Hint: no freakin' way.)
 * Are there any circumstance in which hiding content is anything other than vandalism? Hint: no.
 * Is there anything wrong with publicly raising an issue of interest? I don't think so (and esp. this one: a lot of us are interested in wiki management and Wikia). Although some disagree, I wonder if their concern wasn't...
 * Is there anything wrong with calling people names to raise an issue? Hint GW:NPA.


 * Of course it's unfair that GW@Wikia is still getting the eyeballs over GWiki. But: we haven't exactly focused on ways to draw people here. So, I blame Wikia for forcing us to move, but I blame ourselves (myself included) for allowing Wikia to win. (And honestly, I don't see how calling someone a tool is likely to help.)


 * For reasons best articulated by RT, he has decided that Wikia is still a good place generally and been honored to help keep it a safe place for content. Although I think Wikia is both unsafe for content & generally an unreasonable corporate host, I can respect that decision. And, given that respect, I can see that one of his jobs (in the VTSF, but even as a community member there) is to revert Vandalism. And, I don't see that as any different from what some folks are doing for GW@Wikia: RT keeps sites looking clean, they keep a specific site looking clean. — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:55, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Your site moves to a new URL. You remove the content from the old site, and leave behind a notice where to find the new site. That's vandalism?
 * Yes, it is - if you are of the view that the site belongs to Wikia (who hosted it) rather than the community who created the content. I don't share that view, and I had hoped Randomtime didn't, either. --◄mendel► 17:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC) & 17:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "Your site moves to a new URL. You remove the content from the old site, and leave behind a notice where to find the new site. That's vandalism?"
 * Yes
 * "if you are of the view that the site belongs to Wikia"
 * Not really - Wikia has the same rights as any other company (or nonprofit host) to host Creative Commons licensed content [unlike GuildWiki/GW@W, there's no NC clause, so Wikia is free to make a profit out of it] on that side, I don't see an issue with them keeping content, it's not "their" content, however.
 * Yes, You could claim it's selfish that Wikia keeps content if their original creators don't want it around - but there will be people who visit the Wikia site, and even continue to edit - their experience shouldn't be ruined by seeing an empty shell of a wiki - even if it does link to the "new" wiki at another site. It really is that simple - yes, Wikia keeps page views, no, that's not a problem to me if people find what they're looking for. Removed content makes the wiki in question look bad - which has a knock on effect on the person who finds the removed content's impression on Wikis in general --  Random <font color="Orange">Time  19:23, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yet sites change URL all the time, with nothing but a redirect left at the old site. Have a look at http://www.webcomicsnation.com/colignon/shitcity/series.php, note the line that says "Hi! What you are looking at is a mirror page.  For the REAL action, check out Shit City Comic dot Com!" Has Colignon Porc-Epic vandalized his old site? (I can't find an example offhand where the old content is also gone.)
 * I am of the opinion that Hetalia fans' experiences will be ruined by google directing them to a wiki with no active editing community (i.e. void of the community that built it), with no indication where that community went. I feel that their experience would be greatly enhanced by discovering the new site, with the vibrant community; and that it would make them like wikis more once they find that with each great wiki comes an editing community that made it so, instead of a bunch of IP vandals that are kept at bay and otherwise radio silence on RecentChanges. From the viewpoint of Hetalia fans looking for a wiki to read and/or edit, directing them to an active wiki is good. From the viewpoint of Wikia, directing visitors (aka ad impressions) offsite is bad. Your argument differs; as far as I've understood you, you say that you want to make a wiki look good that lacks the community that made it what is, and I don't think that is possible without acting in a way I don't approve of. --◄mendel► 20:00, 25 March 2011 (UTC)