User:Dirael/SW


 * "This wiki is, actually, very much about the people who play the game. This wiki was established by the SmashBoards (one half of it, anyway) to become a repository of concrete knowledge on Smash Brothers. We have always kept information on the prominent players of the game and their conventions/establishments.... This wiki was created and designed to encompass both the game and its players."
 * If I'm understanding this one-half thing correctly, one half of the community intended to keep information about smashers and crews, while the other did not intend to keep any information about the players at all. So there goes that.
 * This namespace proposal does not dispose of the current information, it simply relocates it (unless we purge, an idea which I do not support). This wiki does include information about its players, no matter what I or anyone think about whether it should. It appears to me that the general consensus is that it should retain information about players and the crews they form; I support this notion. However, you first state that the wiki is about the people who play the game, but then say "We have always kept information on the prominent players." Incorrect- we have kept information about all the players. (I dropped the "always" from the sentence because I haven't been here very long, but right now it is what it is and the present is the topic at hand.) What are the rest of the non-prominent people? Non-players, as Sky says? Can you tell me anything about $3rv, Aaron B, ???, or any of the other non-prominent smashers that constitute 99%+ of all the smasher pages we have? (See here for a full list. It took 3 clicks to find 3 examples- that ought to tell you something.) If the wiki was (one half) established with documentation of players (note the lack of rank qualifications in that sentence) in mind, why exclude the vast majority of people and force them to exploit the only visible loophole- to make it as a userpage?
 * "''There is no fault in retaining this knowledge in its original state."
 * I still do not see why splitting the information into multiple namespaces is seen as a "loss of information". Everything will be preserved exactly as it was (or improved in terms of formatting, but content will stay unchanged), except that it's at a new title. One half of the principle on which SmashWiki was founded is entirely preserved- moving pages does not remove information about the members of the Smash community. I would like to contest the argument that a crew namespace conflicts with (one half!) the principle this wiki was founded upon- rather, I believe wiping 99% of all crew pages due to lack of notability diminishes the ability of SmashWiki to document the community.
 * I agree that there is no "fault" in keeping the information as it is now. But any tangible benefits have yet to be found for keeping it as it is, and fewer for removing the non-notables.
 * You speak about the parsing into namespaces entirely pragmatically. How about, this information has no need to be in a different namespace? How about, it is legitimate content? So you agree that there are benefits to separating the crew pages into their separate namespace; your "why should we?" argument lacks actual support, and is simply comprised of a "there's not reason for us to". So, while I list benefits for separating it into a namespace, there have been none provided for keeping it as it is. If we keep it as it is, things will never change. We need change- I'm pretty sure we all agree the way they're set up now is not good enough.


 * "it is irrelevant whether the traffic is coming here for Smasher knowledge or game knowledge. "
 * It's relevant because the main space ought to be about what people mainly come here for, yes? All the information that most people don't mainly come for is still there, it's just an extra 5 characters to get to. Woo?


 * The reason I speak of deleting all the unnotable crews as a short term solution is because if we do nothing to impose restrictions on the way pages are set up, they will just keep being created the way they are. If this is the case, we'll have to do purges every  interval- why not just force them to meet certain formatting criteria beforehand? Such as being named properly, including required information, blahblahblah?
 * Moving them to their own namespace enables their content to be de-legitimized, as something less than worthy of actual mention, and thus more acceptable to create pages that lack both legitimate content AND interest.
 * How does simply moving the page constitute a delegitimization of the content in the pages? The page is the same page, just at a different location. I fail to see how moving a page allows its information to become subpar, not to mention well over half contain subpar bs to start with.
 * You may say that I said people would be able to filter it out, etc etc. And that's true- people who don't want to see it don't have to. But, there are some people who are going to watch the changes anyway- so the idea of moving the page correlating to a decrease in acceptable content doesn't make much sense to me.


 * "Unlike with drug trafficking and consumption, we can control the trafficking and creation of our pages with perfect accuracy."
 * We can do that in a different namespace too? I missed the point.


 * "Why can we not, as we do in most matters rely on the discretion of our administration?"
 * Admins don't get an extra say in content. We administrate users, not content. As such, why should we (as non-pro players!) decide who is pro?


 * "Even if we aren't always 100% accurate, it is entirely and exclusively our place, because we run the Wiki.
 * ...you truly wish to give up the high standard of accuracy we have tried to maintain?
 * Additionally, you argue that, as maintainers of the wiki, it is our place to judge who is and is not pro- based entirely on the rankings of other sites. wut?


 * Slippery slope: They're not logically concluded, because the manner of the Crew: and Stage: namespaces is different, and you didn't include the reason why the Crew: namespace is proposed; calling for a Stage:, Zelda:, or any other such namespace has no grounds. Unlike a Stage: namespace, there is enough content for a Crew: namespace, which is- from what I can tell- the reason that it was even proposed in the first place.
 * What a crew namespace would do: Increase readability due to the large number of crew articles, allows people to filter Crew: out of RC, Special:Random sucks less, utility of Special: functions like AllPages increased since there's less crap in main, mainspace becomes about game content.
 * What a stage namespace would do: Decrease readability due to the comparatively few articles now comprising a namespace, Special:Random stops returning a part of what it should, utility of Special: functions decreases since Stage is a separate namespace (eg less content), mainspace loses what it's supposed to contain- game content.
 * Look similar? No.


 * "If we get angry mail from some guy who really cares about his 100 kb bit on SmashWiki, then we'll say sorry and give it to him."
 * Do I spy a potentially enormous and extremely exploitable loophole? I think so. No matter what we decide to do, whether it be make a namespace with minimum required info or delete all the "non-notable" pages, allowing people to keep their page if they QQ is a bad idea.


 * I didn't say my opinion can't be argued. I said it can't be dismissed; basically, you can't just say "no ur rong, kekeke." My opinion is that most people come here for information about the game- how do you plan to tell me that I am simply wrong, without providing evidence that I'm relatively confident you don't have?
 * The argument is not clear-cut and simple; what I want to make them contain is clear-cut and simple.
 * Readability- would you prefer I change the word to navigation? I originally meant readibility pertaining to recent changes, but whatever...
 * Can filter- Yes, most of them don't need patrolling, and people who don't want to seem them don't have to if there's a filter for them. Those that do won't use the filter.
 * Findability- Interestingly enough, you indirectly gave me this argument Sky- I wouldn't have thought of it if not for you. Hm.
 * Special pages: And what if articles are improperly categorized? What if there isn't even a category for what I'm looking for? Specials return all the results within the cache, afaik; categories won't.
 * Here are some of your "notability" quotes from IRC, that day we talked about smasher pages. It seems to me like you had a complete turnaround in opinion- wtb elaboration like and such as.
 *  Most have not  "competed in a tournament"    subjectively, you say that.
 *  That raises a couple of questions  How to know someone competed in a tournament is the first, and secondly, what of Brawl's influence, with online play?
 *  but once there, it's a manner of logon, check Rc, etc etc.
 * Why should we be the ones deciding who is pro and who is not? That's like taking me and making me decide what team in the NFL is best- I don't even know how to play football, much less judge which team is the best. Just because Damascus beat Paintbranch and Paintbranch beat Magruder doesn't mean Damascus will beat Magruder tomorrow; handing me a bunch of numbers won't help me decide which team is best.
 * Masses are stupid: YAV etc


 * If a crew namespace is implemented, I want to implement formatting guidelines that must be followed- if that changes anyone's opinions, I apologize for not making that clear in my first post. I have not picked anything out that I find acceptable- once I do, I'll run it past people and we can go from there.


 * -- Shadowcrest  20:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)