Talk:Animal companion

Archive 1

Nice, clean page.Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  22:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

What would happen if I used weapon spells with my pet? Is the damage counted towards Dire?--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   07:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean about "counted towards dire", but a weapon spell that increases damage would increase damage.. Tain 14:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you used a weapon spell on your pet to increase its damage-dealing capacity, that would probably help it evolve into dire. The easiest way, of course, is to go full beastmaster on HM outside Boreal Station. The lv30 worms have no skills. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:05, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Doh, of course... didn't understand what you were referring to at first. Yes, that would be counted as the pet's damage and thus count towards Dire - if you cast, say, Brutal Weapon on someone else, the damage numbers show up on their screen rather than yours. Tain 03:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

If I get rid of a pet by selling it, can I go back and buy it again from the NPC? Or do I have to go find a new one to charm? NylanaGreymoon 04:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * At the moment, it's lost forever when you do that. But that might change after the "big" april update, which is supposed to be on the 23rd. Look at this page and scroll down to the Zaishen Menagerie. --Macros 05:26, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

+20 armor vs physical damage?
Question; do pets have the same +20 armor versus physical damage as warriors do? I've been trying to find that out, but haven't found any immediate yes or no answers to the question, or has testing for additional bonuses never been done? :o --Relax And Play 22:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Attack
Since when has it been possible to V (NPC) + Space attack uncharmed pets? Not that long, has it? Drag nmn  talk cont  19:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Since as long as I've known that hoykey. Wich is long... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 19:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Strange, I don't remember it. I remember having to PBAoE them first to make them hostile... might just be me though... Drag nmn   talk cont  07:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Pet Growth
How much larger are hearty pets, then dire pets? I was once told that hearty pets are only useful for making "giant" pets.
 * Depends on the pet, my dire polar bear has been called giant, but I have yet to see the size of a hearty one. Hearty pets have more hp so they are really only good in PVE for tanking a little.--[[Image:AlariSig.jpg]] 04:12, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that the size of the pet is related to it's level, not it's evolution --Gimmethegepgun 04:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, dire are smaller then hearty, at least some pets are.--[[Image:AlariSig.jpg]] 04:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Epinephrine answered this question in the archived talk, and said there is no difference in size between elder/dire/hearty (link to his proof ). If you have pictures that show otherwise, please post them. Tain 13:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Pet Healing
The comment on the main page that "pet healing is not believed to affect evolution" is very false. I ran three tests. The first test was with a level one moa bird. I leveled it all the way too level 11 with max points into beast mastery, predators pounce, and call of protection. Needless to say, during his 11 levels (before evolving), he did probably 10 times as much damage as he received in that time. At level 11 I was horrified to see that he was a "playful strider". So I had to start over. I got rid of him, went and found another strider (level 3), and charmed it. This time, I used symbiotic bond AND call of protection and made extra effort make sure my pet did the most damage possible and never got hurt or died. Predators Pounce was still in his skill bar. Needless to say, at level 11, he turned out Playful again. So the THIRD time, a very angry and frustrated ranger got another moa pet, and did the EXACT same thing except took predators pounce out of the skill bar, and NEVER healed the pet. At level 11 I have an agressive pet.

The point of the story is that the reason my first two pets were playful is that everytime I used predators pounce (all the time) they were healed hp, even though they were full. This somehow correlated into making them playful. But when I did the exact same thing, only to remove predators pounce, it came out agressive. Healing obviously DOES directly correlate into making your pet playful/hearty; and if anyone else wants to test this out go right ahead. Please remove that statement from the main page.

lvl 20 aggressive lioness
I just got my pet to level 20 (it started at 12 as agressive) and it is STILL aggresive. In the article it said that sometimes this will happen and you just have to get your pet to 16 if it didnt evolve at 15. Obviously this isn't going to work, so my question is: am i just going to have to get rid of my pet and train another one?
 * The name probably didn't update, type /petname and you will probably see a Dire or Elder pet.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I did, it is still aggresive...
 * Related to this, I had a bit of confusion while trying to level my white moa to dire. I have noticed that your pet's health will not reflect aggressive or dire immediately when they level.  This is handy since going from 10-11 or 14-15 this way would actually give them lower HP, and you wouldn't want that to happen in the middle of a fight.  When my moa hit 11, I thought it was headed for elder, and I was a little disappointed but decided I could still try for Dire.  Then around 13, I had to recalculate my health for my level to find that the bird had less health than it should.  The same happened at final evolution.  At 15 it was -30 health.  I did a bit of research into the perma-aggressive pets, but then the next time I zoned, the HP was corrected to dire.  Your problem sounds more complicated than this, but I found it an interesting mechanic for leveling.  StarrTheInsane 20:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is an existing problem that sometimes pets do not get their final evolution. This caused the Imperial Phoenix to not display in the Monument of Fellowship.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

some research...
So basically, I've been experimenting a lot with death leveling pets over the past week or two, and I've come to notice something. When i use a method in which I die instantly (the pet doesn't kill me - i.e. heroes using resurrect/rebirth when i have 1 hp) the pet tends to turn out elder. However, when I use a method in which the pet actually kills me (i.e. dying at a shrine, hero using flesh of my flesh) the pet always turns out dire. This leads me to believe that pet kills actually do have an effect, and not just damage. The pet actually did even more damage with the resurrect/rebirth methods, because it was attacking the heroes the entire time, but I think that since it didn't score any kills, it turned out elder. Any thoughts? *edit* forgot to sign. *edit again* figured i'd sign it with my account i just made. yay.--Mr Squints 03:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It might be kills, but it could also be that it wasn't doing as much damage with the 1 hp deaths. I think that's probably it, because attacking 60 AL henchies all the time deals less damage than a 0 AL you part of the time.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was using max AL, dumbed down with sup runes, so i don't think that's it--Mr Squints 03:59, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

So which is the best?
After all this discussion of evolution, which type of pet is best? Because i dont know which one to try and get my pet to.


 * I prefer Elder. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Dire evolution is the one thing that gives PvE characters an advantage over PvP-only characters in PvP. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:11, 19 July 2008 (UTSo C)

So if Dire gives advantages to PVE, what about Hearty???
 * Hearty is mainly useful if you want your pet to tank while you do dama

OK Thanks for everything :) I'm probably getting elder because its a good mix of both.

Whats the difference between aggressive and playful pets? --Help Heals the Soul
 * Aggressive pets deal 5% more damage and have 30 less health, playful pets have 5% less damage and 30 more health. Iirc. Those are not the final evolutions, though. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Got one more question.(new to editing and a noob in some aspects in GW) :) How do you make and elder pet. eg. what requirements are there? same for dire--Help Heals the Soul
 * A pet becomes elder if it deals and takes roughly the same amount of damage (zero works). A pet becomes dire if it deals much more damage than it takes (Pet attack skills and Call of Protection fit the bill nicely.) [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See also Guide to evolving a Dire Pet. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

weakness and pet dmg
How does weakness affect pet damage? In RA a weakened pet was doing around 80dmg (with skill)and 30-40dmg (without skill) to my caster.
 * It would reduce physical attacks' base damage by 2/3 but would not affect bonus damage, same as with any creature. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Exploitable Corpse?
I just tested this, and the pet will not leave an exploitable corpse when killed. Thus, I reverted the edit by the anon. I can upload screenshots if needed. --Toraen 20:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The update several months ago removed the ability to exploit pet corpses to nerf spiritway. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Pet Evolution
I'll get straight to the point; I've got a level 11 Playful Tiger, but I was trying to get a Dire Tiger; is it too late for my pet to become Dire? ــѕт. мıкε  21:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes --Gimmethegepgun 22:42, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah, mebbe I'll just get an Aggressive Lion. =/ ــѕт.  мıкε  23:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have a level 15 Hearty White Moa, and wanted a dire, its too late for him too huh? Pendulous Assassin 17:00, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Correct. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 17:52, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

HM vs NM Hero pets
Ok so I'm getting that it's probably mostly a ratio of damage the pet does versus the damage the owner does, and the damage the pet takes, etc. and that the level of the creatures do not matter. So in HM, you can essentially get more damage over time to establish that ratio on critters, because the levels are higher, but you will level maybe slightly slower do to kill rate reduction? Or would the Xp differential make up for that, in general...? Any guesses? I'm just starting to try and get Dire pets, for heroes. For that matter, can you evolve hero pets? I'm trying several areas and modes atm, but am coming up inconclusive as far as time. Also, I noticed that on the worms outside of Boreal, the pets can sometimes sniff them out when they go underground, and continue attacking till they died. Once the pet's sword on the disposition bar, the one that you have to redo every time, stayed on and i didn't need to remove it on the worms.--Apoptosine 14:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Critical Strikes
Anyone know if a pet's critical hit on a primary assassin will trigger the energy gain from the critical strikes primary attribute? I'd test it, but I don't have a pet on my sin. thanks! Shawnicus 02:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, pets, like minions, are considered additional allies, even though their attack damage shows up like your own.  ــѕт.  мıкε  02:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

pet controls bug
If you die while your pet is ordered to "Heel" and there are enemies attacking the pet, it will attack them back. The command will remain at "Heel", but as soon as the pet is attacked, it will start hitting back while you are dead. When you resurrect at a shrine, it is teleported to you and will stop attacking, even if the enemies were on top of the res shrine. Is this a bug? Should I report this to Anet? RoseOfKali 19:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This happened while death-leveling Charr in the Northlands. Once I killed the group that started lagging behind and was 3 levels below the other, the pet stopped fighting back, and heeled even while I was dead...  O_O?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess pet controls stop working while you are dead. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:18, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * My pets have always avoided combat when set to Heel while I was dead, tbh. Maybe there was an update. =/ ــѕт.  мıкε  12:06, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Pet controls work like a shout. So when you die, no shout. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]Tenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 14:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you see, it started working again? I don't know if it just glitched out and got reset when I changed him to Attack and back to Heel, or if it was because I started attacking, I don't know what the deal was with that, but it "fixed itself."  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 15:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Pet Growth
As of the 10/18/2007 update, all pets now grow as they gain levels, with the exception of the Black Widow and Black Moa, which are both level 20 when tamed.

I removed the mention of the 2 pets, as it's at best extremely obvious. -->Suicidal Tendencie 12:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're right on that. If a pet is level 20, it will not gain level and therefore not grow further..everyone can do the math..-- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 13:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you Merty :) tbh I was under the impression you didn't like me... I feel better now -->Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 15:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There are cases where this still applies though. I would suggest a rewording of that part. It should say that a pet will only grow in size when it undergoes a certain evolution while under control of a player or hero. There are pets that exist as elder/dire/hearty that are still the regular size. There are also pets, at least last I checked one for sure that can be tamed at level 15 and will never grow even though the player can level them for 5 levels. This part of the guide is misleading at best now. Thought it wasn't that great before, at least it made it clear that some pets do not grow. Now a person might assume I can cap that level 15 and it will grow with me, while this is not true in most cases. There is a chance if the pet has not undergone final evolution, but usually by this point (level 15) it can no longer be changed if gained from an npc. I will write that part, if you two could edit I would appreciate it. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 15:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit to my own edit, anyway I meant that it is based on evolution not levels. Those pets will not grow not because they are level 20 but because they are fully evolved. In some cases it is possible to tame pets that are lower than level 20 but are evolved as far as they will go. Therefore they will never grow even when gaining multiple levels unless care is taken to ensure a proper evolution. This may not seem important to most, but I have trained quite a few pets to dire/hearty evolution on different characters and it can be quite time consuming unless you take a "shortcut". So I think it is proper to note all of this, but I will admit my wording may be way off if someone could fix it while still keeping the basis there I would greatly appreciate it. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 15:22, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

It appears that the Black Moa is fixed in size at all levels and evolutions. If you ask the trainer to show you different evolutions of other moas, they will be at their proper grown size for the evolution. The Black Moas shown will always be the same size. I have leveled a 15-hearty Black Moa to 20 to unlock the top tier. I have not yet tried it with a 12-playful to 15-hearty leveling, but I suspect that will not produce growth. BrettM 14:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

This may be because previously this pet was only available at level 20 with Elder evolution, and might be at it's maximum size already. Anet may have "forgotten" to code the downsizing of this pet now that you can charm a lower level one. RoseOfKali 19:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This should be fixed now [Game_updates/20090514][[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 18:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Moss Spider in the HoM
I've heard that it does NOT get its own statue, while the article says it does. Screenshot, please. RoseOfKali 20:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never heard it does, actually. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  21:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See talk page for moss spider 76.188.100.220 22:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Late but no it does not get it's own statue. Seems like it should, but nope. Maybe they will add one in the future though. On a different note, why anyone would want a spider pet is just beyond me. Cats, now thats the way to go. Though I suppose poison bite makes it a bit more rp value than my Stalker poisoning someone. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 19:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Damage types
So it turns out that talking to Silavor in the Zaishen Menagerie provides information concerning damage types of pets. In fact, pets do different damage types at different evolutions and levels. I guess that wasn't something that was taken into account by the tests a while ago. Anyway, now I'm wondering, should the information provided by him be added to this article, or each of the individual pets' articles? 74.58.45.238 21:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I say to each pet's article, but then the damage type tables should also be revisited... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:49, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Crocodile Note
Why does the note for crocodile say "Can not be tamed by player characters?" I just went out and charmed a crocodile without a problem.


 * That note is only on the GW:EN one, did you tame yours in Elona? If so, it's fine --Gimmethegepgun 02:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that note confused the heck out of me the first time. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Pets in PvE take 33% less damage and deal 33% more damage in combat.
WHAT? O_o I've never heard this before. Was Evenfall smoking something or is this wiki just that far behind on this? RoseOfKali 16:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Update - Thursday, August 6, 2009. --Evenfall 16:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bahaha! Here's to updating articles before the update notes are posted. :P I don't really read the other wiki except ranting on Gaile's and Linsey's page. ;) Oh, and this is cool! :D RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or maybe somehow it decided to not update in my watchlist. O_o Oh well. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There seems to be some problem with the cache. I have to purge fairly often for pages to update. --Evenfall 16:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah. How very not surprising. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I posted on the same topic on the other GW wiki site an I thought I should post it here as well.

"Ive been testing this [with that question in mind](the question was if the +33% is only base or skill damage as well), I have found that using the Effective Damage calculation system on the GW wiki page "Damage Calculation" that the +33% is figured after ALL calculation, this means that skill bonuses are affected as well. As an example if you have a level 15 Elder pet and you are attacking a target with 100 AL using Scavenger strike at 12 BM You will hit for approximately 37-47 damage. Ill use the equation from the Wiki page.

ED = [([RD × DScale × AE] + DShift) × DMult] + DNeg

a more elaborate version

ED = [([RD × DScale × (2^[(EffDR-EffAR)/40])] + DShift) × DMult] + DNeg

ED = ((((27*1*(2^((60-100)/40)))+22)*1)+0)*(133%)

You can put that into the google search(yay google calc, It's hat I used :D) bar and end up w/ about 47 damage I then calculated the minimum the same way and then tested it on the 100 AL Suit or armor and got the same results.

I have only tested this with Scavenger strike and with Strength of honor. I hope it is like this with many skills XD.

[I am going to continue testign it with as many skills that give +damage and can affect pets (enchantments, shouts etc.) and when i have more results ill post again :D]

Think about it!! with 16 BM Brutal strike a Hp<50% foe!! thats a TON of spike damage, and from a pet too! I mean ranger not barrage spike! I'm psyched!"

Habar414 13:58, October 26, 2009 (UTC) GW Char. Chuck Chukelson

hmm, looks like the 33.25%less affects all damage sources, including armor ignoring damage, (tested with the spirit of shadowsong and spirit of dissonance) but not life stealing (prettymuch expected that though)

funny bug
So I have been messing around with pets for a while now, and Ive found a nice little bug that works sometimes. If you are casting Comfort animal (not sure if it's just comfort animal or any pet rez) and your pet dies, once you cast it you pet will be resurrected and your skills wont be disabled. Difficult to time occasionally but it's pretty consistent. :3 Habar414 17:36, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure this isn't because your skills won't be disabled if your pet dies twice in a timely fashion? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:04, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? In the same sort of thing that you dont get DP if you die very soon after being rezzed? If that already exists then that's probably what it was, but thats definitely news to me.Habar414 12:48, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, works similar to the DP thing. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:21, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * It would have to be that, because if your pet dies for the first time in a while when you're activating comfort animal, the skill will fail because it's been disabled. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:57, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * oh ho! well! that's news to me :3..hmmm if only you could sacrifice life/deal damage to your pet and put death nova on it and quickly rez, nova, kill, repeat now THAT would be a funny sight :DHabar414 16:57, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * In areas where you don't get DP (Alliance battles, for example) you also don't get a skill blackout when your pet dies. --Macros 17:46, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

pets gaining XP
In the article, it says: "The entire group of allied pets are considered as another party, thus, the experience earned by your pet decreases proportionally to the number of pets in the alliance." This seems to imply that XP is not proportional to the number of heroes/henchies in your party. But, it does indeed. I've taken level 5 pets out of Boreal Station to level them attacking Snow Wurms; if I solo, the pet will get to lvl 8 (if I also take on the Mountain Pinesouls), but if I go in a group of 8, then do not even get to lvl 6 (while in Hard Mode). I do not know if adding more pets would slow things down further, but the fewer party members you have, the faster pets will level. Out of Boreal, even when pets are level 19, they will usually go up 1 level after taking out all wurms and the pinesouls in a single run (thus, to go from level 5 to level 20 only takes about 10 or 11 runs [I have not kept strict track of the total number needed]--and there is usually 1 or 2 chests, too). GW-Susan 19:07, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The way I read that is a dual variable for the XP pets actually get. XP1 is the amount of XP "designated" for pets to share after each kill, and varies depending on the number of party members in your party, just like it does for you. XP2 is the number of XP your pet actually gets towards leveling up. XP2=XP1 when there is only one pet in the party. If there are 2 or more pets in the party, XP2 for your pet is a smaller fraction of XP1, as the other pets take their share of the XP from the kill. That's just the way I see it, if math makes sense to you.
 * In other words, it would take longer to level a pet if there are other pets in the same party, while keeping the number of players/heroes/henchies in this party constant. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:53, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suspect you are correct, but, its the part: 'are considered as another party' that would imply (at least to me) the number in your party (heroes/henchies/humans) does not matter. Maybe they are trying to make a distinction since (I think) pets get a different amount of XP (which I think is also your point).  I think the wording in the article should be changed to remove confusion;  I will leave that to others, but it should be made clear that your party size also effects XP gained by pets.  GW-Susan 20:08, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * another party --> "sub-party of its own?" RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:03, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've done extensive research on how pets gain XP, which I mean to sit down and write up as an article one day. I can tell you for certain that the number and level of other pets in the group has absolutely no effect on the XP gained by your pet. The party size, however, does have an influence. The raw XP gain is divided by the party size (number of players/heroes/henchies), regardless of the presence of other pets. Thus, the allied pets do not form any type of separate party or sub-party for purposes of XP calculation. The raw XP is calculated as being double what a player of the same level would earn against a given foe with no bonuses (bounties, XP scrolls, HM bonus, boss bonus, etc.) in effect, and this value is divided by party size. BrettM 15:33, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

wintersday 2010
will there be a new pet this year does anyone know ? --94.209.124.71 16:20, 26 December 2010 (UTC) Mistress Denna Grey


 * ANet didn't announce one in the their Wintersday 2010 official page; players who have completed all new quests didn't see a new one in Gwen's Garden. So, it doesn't look promising. (And yes, many are disappointed about the end of the tradition; we miss seeing a new, yearly jingle pet.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:55, 26 December 2010 (UTC)