User talk:Silk Weaker

Build:A/E Falling Shocker
what are you doing to that poor build? totally gutted. was there something wrong with the old version? why didn't you restart the votes? --Honorable Sarah 10:39, 17 August 2006 (CDT)


 * There were three supporters (including me) for the new build, and only one person disagreeing with the change at that time, I thought it was the general consensus that the Falling Shocker, or Shock Sin in general should be built as such (apparntly I was wrong). If top tier GvG is any indication of what works best though, this build is a vast improvement, seeing as GPS is rarely seen anymore (see discussion). Checking the history, you would find that I have at first put Dark Escape and Desperate Stab in as variation only, and then switched it around and put the old configuration as variation. I haven't checked the page yet, but I assume you've made a revert/vote of some sort, and that's fine. On the note of "what I'm doing with the poort build", I'm simply improving it. This build is vastly superior in NPC killing (the old one probably cannot kill the body guards alone), which is an important part of an assassin, and, while that is debatable, it does not lose much in way of player killing either, seeing as GPS and Horns is too slow and restrictive. Note also that an interrupt could mean alot of difference. On the old build, relying simply on Horns or Shock for interrupts is either too risky, or expensive. 30 seconds. Silk Weaker 03:22, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * you've been hanging around the builds categories long enough to know that anytime you change the core of a build (excepting duplicate skills) you need to move it back into untested and restart the votes. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 09:55, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, that would be my fault then, because I honestly didn't think it was nessesary. I just thought it was a minor change since people seemed to want it, and it was just 2 skills anyway. I do lurk around, but I'm not really that familiar with the policies and such just yet, so I apologize for the mistake. Silk Weaker 10:02, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * no problem, variant got voted up thou, so it must have been a positive change (assassins don't make much sense to me) --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:10, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmpf, Silk weaver slaps DELETE THIS NOW!! on others builds but on his own, he never his takes im outa favoured no matter what happens to im... Dr Titan 04:24, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * MMmmm, come again? What does this have to do with A/E Shock Sin? --Silk Weaker 04:36, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Mo/W Sword Spike Monk
unfavored builds do not have other categories. rather not have some new user wandering throu RA builds, trying an unfavored and thinking the wiki sucks for advocating a crap build. --Honorable Sarah 11:24, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * My mistake again. I've seen some unfavored builds in those categories before, so I thought that's how it works. Actually I do agree with that, it was a bit annoying to find crap builds when I was looking through. Silk Weaker 22:57, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

Heading
Dont add your prefered skills to the optional slots in a build in testing. (Mercurius Ter Maxim 11:21, 18 August 2006 (CDT))
 * a skill is always prefered to a optional, unless there is really good reason for the optional. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 11:44, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

W/Mo Sheathed Sword
Thanks for the input to my build, but what's NPoV?

It means Neautral Point of View. While Guild Wiki isn't wikipedia, having too many "I"s, "Me"s, and persona comments attached to it might make it seem un professional, and will make people doubt the build when they see it. I'll make an example change to show you what I mean, and you can do what you like with it. By the way, sign your comments. --Silk Weaker 21:38, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

Changing Build To Untested
Do not do that untill you have fully read the talk page, if you had you would have seen the archiveed page had votes that corisponded to the current build. Build in question incase you have gone arround doing it to others and you don't know what I'm talking about: R/A Repeat Expertise Assassin. Sir On The Edge 05:19, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I only just found out about those rules in the upper post. I don't want to put the build up for testing again so I'll just leave it in the vairyents section. Again, sorry for my ignorance. Sir On The Edge 05:24, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Oops
Oops, Build:A/D Disciple of Death was not meant for AB, I've corrected this and you may want to change what your vote says or change your vote all together. Sir On The Edge 18:56, 10 December 2006 (CST)

A Wintersday Gift for you...
In the spirit of the season, and in reference to the recent posts on Skulds, aka Skuds, talk page, here are two presents for you. Enjoy :)

&mdash; Azroth    21:49, 20 December 2006 (CST)

hi
that troll notice was not intended for you >.< &mdash; Skuld 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Oops. I must have misread the history some time ago, and I thought from context someone else added it.

=/ Okay nevermind. Maybe we should add an arrow to that thing.--Silk Weaker 09:12, 22 December 2006 (CST)

A Chain Letter from Midnight
Merry Christmas. =) &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 00:07, 25 December 2006 (CST)
 * =) yes, merry christmas and happy holidays and all of that=) --Midnight08 00:13, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Just a question
Every time I read your Username I think it's Silk Weaver, but it's not. But that is the name of your Mesmer pictured on the Userpage. Is your username a "tpyo" or is it intended to be that way? It's getting me all confused. :S Entropy 03:20, 25 December 2006 (CST)

+Omg, and you've adopted my Userbox submission for Gem's contest! Hehehe :) Entropy 03:21, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * =D Yeah I love it. And it's so true! Silk Weaver is my in game name. I was afraid at first of somehow doing something stupid and getting rage-whispered in game or some such, but that went away after I got more used to the place =) --Silk Weaker 03:52, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Hei
Moi, en tiennytkään että olet suomalainen, mutta huomasin kommentoinnit käyttäjäsivullasi. :) -- (talk) 03:22, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * =O Is that finnish, I don't know finnish > < --Silk Weaker 03:55, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * Really? Then why do you have html comments in finnish on your user page? Copied from someome else? :DD I feel a bit stupid now... --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 03:56, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * Wow I though you just checked out people's pages Gem, I didn't realise you look over everyone's code line by line...freaky!! --Xasxas256 08:55, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * It's kind of freaky. And yes. See my klepto userbox which I also only slightly edited =P --Silk Weaker 09:00, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * It's really rare that I check the code, though I probably should. (And I should put some anti-copy comments on my page, like "Stolen from Gem" or something :P, just to have a lot of fun with the people who might copy my stuff) This time I just wanted to check how the green box was done, html or wiki code or maby directly copied from me. ;) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:16, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Kendo
Hey yeah, I've only been doing it about 7 months so I'm not that good yet... only 3kyu rank so far but I guess that ain't too bad. And yeah katanas are a two handed weapons and I hate how most games and even in the movies they portray them as a one handed sword. --Lania Elderfire 01:47, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * So...I guess neither of you folks like the way Katana is portrayed in GW? ;) Depends on who made it, some "katana" really were designed for 1h. But I guess that's getting into the little details like what defines katana anyways. PS: <3 Kendo Entropy 01:50, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * I thought Katanas were 1-handed and no-dachis (or whatever) were the 2-handers--[[image:Windjammer Icon1.jpg|15px]] Windjammer 02:00, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh wait! Actually I think katanas are like bastard swords.  The are 1-handed swords that _could_ be weilded 2-handed.  No-Dachis, on the other had, are proper 2-handers.--[[image:Windjammer Icon1.jpg|15px]] Windjammer 02:11, 9 January 2007 (CST)
 * One handed katanas are very uncommon, and were made specifically for the nito-ryu style (two-swords) which was also very uncommon. It was more common to use a kodachi or a wakizashi which is a short sword and a full katana for the main hand... but still isn't too common. Katanas are predominatly used with two hands as using one blade allows more focus, speed, and damage.... which was why the ito-ryu (one-sword style) was so popular.  If anyone is interested in reading about katanas here is a wiki link to it [].
 * On a practical sense, nito ryu is simply a Shinai (bamboo katana) with a cut up version of it. Nito ryu is still practiced, but generally viewed to be deviant and slightly untrue. There are masters at it, but the general consensus (from the masters I've heard from anyway, I know there are cult followings for it, becuase it's "cool") is that if you're good enough, it doesn't matter how many swords you have. Nito Ryu doesn't have the purity of a single sword, and is mostly fancy stuff, though it tends to really really screw up those who are unready for it.
 * It's too controversial to put my own perspective on the wiki (there are many stubborn, both those who knows what they are talking about and those that think they do). However, Katana is described as, yes, a Bastard Sword. It can be held in one hand, and still is today. The "Higher Stance" in Kendo which is a risky but powerful stance used often to overpower the foe, uses only one hand for the driving strength-- the left hand. In Kendo, the left hand provides the arm strength, although the whole body contributes (which is very important). As such, much of our practice consists of practicing with one hand only, to develope muscle strength and memoery.
 * Like any bastard sword, however, only a strong, very strong man will be able to wield it with one hand with any effeciency. Nito Ryu is often done with the left (or strong hand, some use the right) held back, striking only when the time is right. This is true for all kendo, striking when the time is right, but especially important for something as mentally and physically taxing. Controlling 2 swords at once is no easy manner, not if you want to do so efficiently.
 * That wakizashi is a (large) dagger, used mostly for ceromonial purposes and suicides, the Kodachi is (literally) the short sword, the one used for Nito Ryu would usually be described as such. However, it's important to note that Katana means Sword, Kodachi means Short Sword (dachi is another word). Dadao, for example, which is in the game, means "Big Sword" (Da is Big, Dao is Blade in Chinese).
 * What I'm saying is, Katana does not refer specifically to a special kind of sword. However, due to Imperial Japan being mostly metal poor, Katanas being usually reserved for the rich, Katana has thus reached a privelliged status. Yes, Katanas are for the Samurai, but the word itself is simply sword.
 * I do hate how flimsy it seems though. It's long. The idea is that in less than a second, a stanced swords man can strike and cleave through the head of a foe... lemme check up to around 2.5 meters away for me. It's a melee weapon, but it's precise. It's also not hacking and slashing either. In top tier battles, they can be very fast. It's been said that many dueling samurais kill each other at the same time. That certainly happens to me a lot in competitions.
 * Due to the lack of metal armor in Japan, it's not designed the same way as the European sword where hacking is used to violently force the foe onto the ground or bruise them, nor are they like the rapiers invented later which pierce armor. They are meant to strike the vital areas, the wrist, the throat, between the ribs, and right above the temple. And a proper attack on the head should, theoretically, cleave through the head, precise until the brows, which is enough to kill.
 * Theoretically, meh, if I were given a sword, I should be able to do that to another person, but... eh, not gonna try.


 * Sorry I got carried away. I find Kendo fascinating, and as people seem to be reading a bit, I thought I'd share some of my understanding =P I'm Ich Kyu, been doing it for two and a half years I was to have my Dan test half a year ago, but I had an exam and can't go ><. So all my... how do you say it? Uhm, reverse of sempai? uhh.. lemme wiki.
 * Right, all the Kohai has dan now, and I don't. I do have a competition in Feb though, quite a few countries coming. Not sure about Korea, but Japan, Taiwan, and Beijing are. Hope I do better this time =P --Silk Weaker 03:38, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * Hehe, more than I ever wanted to know, but I do find it fascinating. ;) Maybe a GW:KENDO will come out eventually. That would be interesting.
 * Could you translate "Wo Dao"? Whatkind of sword?
 * Ps. Lots of Unsigned comments here! Oh noes! ^^ Entropy 03:31, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * One of my Kendo senseis is actially practiceing nito-ryu style but he says he has a lot to learn before he can use it effectively. It is strange keikoing against a nitoryu user though -Lania Elderfire 16:24, 10 January 2007 (CST)


 * Oh, that it is. I haven't, yet, but I can see some less experienced people (First or Second Rank) fighting against one of my sempais who's using it, and you can tell that he's not using it as well as he could, because controlling it is pretty difficult, but the other guys, who aren't really that much worse, get very confused by it too. Perhaps the strategy would be different. I imagine some of the waza don't really work against a nito ryu user.. --Silk Weaker 21:29, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * You said that when welding one-handed, they use it in the left hand? What if they are right handed?  Always the left hand?  You know, its funny, but when I first started doing weight lifting, I found my left side of my body was stronger, even though I am right handed.--[[image:Windjammer Icon1.jpg|12px]] Windjammer 16:11, 13 January 2007 (CST)


 * Ah, if you use with the shield, you'd most likely wield with the right hand. You are correct. In Japanese swordsmanship, the left hand provides the strength, and is/becomes stronger. The right hand provides the important element of controlling the blade, but the power comes from the left. There are no real calculations, but it's usually agreed to be around 70% left, 30% right. Remember, the power comes from the whole body, not just the arms.. ^^ --Silk Weaker 21:49, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Today was the competition. I fucked it up spectacularly... --Silk Weaker 06:13, 28 January 2007 (CST)

VoS Archer
Hey man, hows it going. Just thought I'd drop you a line and let you know the VoS Archer has changed. Mystic Regen has been removed in favor of Signet of Pious Light. This has allowed the use of Harrier's Grasp; a skill that used to be too expensive to keep on consistently. SoPL + Vital Boon is not only cheaper, it is better healing over any given time period than Mystic Regen; plus it can be used to heal others. A major rune had to be used to allow Wind Prayers to be raised, lowering health by 35. HG also only works on moving targets (which is when you will want to cripple them anyway), that is a significant drawback over Cripshots, as you have to wait for targets to start moving. Against meleers, however, you can basically count on a cripple on the first shot; same thing against an actively kiting caster. I generally don't even put on VoS until all the melee targets have been crippled and my team has been able to get in position. If there are two or three melee targets persistently chasing the casters then I just stay on cripple duty while my team takes out softies. I will also put on VoS at this time and can often kill or draw the aggro from meleers, leaving the casters in peace. If the meleers are all cripped for a few seconds and my team needs a softie crippled or a damage push to help kill them, I can quickly turn my attention to that, make the crip and the kill (if possible) then get back to protecting casters. The crip may not have a cover condition, but it is re-applied on every attack for the complete 24 seconds of the duration of the enchant. The enchant's recharge also allows it to be kept on indefinently. If I draw aggro, my self heal is strong enough to stay alive until help arrives. If someone else needs healing, I can toss out at generally at least a couple of +90 heals to help out. These changes have not reduced damage at all either. The only drawback is that my self healing takes 2.75 seconds to complete and I cannot keep the damage going during this time. Given the ability to cripple, the strength of the heal, and the timing of damage due to recasting RtW: this is really not a problem though. I've never played Cripshots before, but I can guess now that it would be a lot of fun. I don't think this build has the entire range of utility as a Cripshots, but it can cripple, has good damage, good self healing, and the ability to heal others. I know that you had issue with the build's lack of utility before, but it has really been boosted; I even enjoy playing it once again. There is a lot that can be done with it now. I didn't want to come here to try and persuade you, but you should really take another look. If you are looking for somthing that will fit into meta-game, I don't know. But this is really a very good build now on its own accord now.-- Windjammer 02:00, 9 January 2007 (CST)

P.S MeltedFreak made the suggestion of SoPL instead of Mystic Regen. Our discussion is what gave me the immediate idea of Harrier's Grasp when SoPL made room in the energy management for another enchant congruent in cost and length to Mystic Regen.-- Windjammer 02:00, 9 January 2007 (CST)


 * I'll have to take a while to read, but I will ^^. --Silk Weaker 03:26, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Apply Poison
I think I remeber you saying you like apply poison. I had a question. I am wanting to use that skill with Stunning Strike, to both keep targets primed and then keep the daze covered. If a target is already poisoned, then dazed, will a reapplication of poison via another attack put the poison as the top condition if it was already on the bottom?-- Windjammer 16:04, 13 January 2007 (CST)


 * On top. I have played with the idea, and, in theory, liked it a lot. It spreads poison faster. The main concern that I think you should look for is the range and arc of the spear. It's VERY imprecise compared to the bow.


 * However, the damage (spear far outdamages the bow, I must admit) and the ability to apply daze and deewound and a distant may (or may not) outweigh it. I don't like it much, but yes, it does work. Use apply poison, and perhaps barbed spear to, using a single character, apply -7 degen to multiple foes. WITHOUT an elite. This, imo, is far superior to Barbed Arrows and Poison Arrows. After that you can easily use disrupting spear and stunning strike. The specifics are for you to decide, of course. --Silk Weaker 21:46, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Here is the bar I've been toying with, no testing done yet though. I've never played an adrenal class, aside from a Thumper (which don't count really), so I'm not sure how things would work out. I liked AppPoison because it could dependably spread poison and prime for Stunning Strike and Disrupting Spear.

For the optionals I was thinking somthing like Glowing Signet, Signet of Aggression or a shout or chant that could provide energy. Other options would be Natural Stride or any Ranger ritual, though with the cost of apply poison and "make your time", the build would likely need energy management. Also, MYT feels like a waste with only 1 adrenal skill, but with the cost of Stunning it seems like a necessary inefficiency.-- Windjammer 00:34, 14 January 2007 (CST)




 * More condition for interrupt base, as well as being fairly spreadable. Stride is pretty useful, yes. I don't like MYT because it's basically TTL with more recharge, but slightly easierly met condition. Anthem of Flame can effectively keep agressive refrain up, although you can always add GftE for your allies.--Silk Weaker 00:41, 14 January 2007 (CST)

RotN
Looking at making a build using this skill. It seems good for a hammer build using expensive and "lose all adrenaline skills". You said on another fellows build that RotN can be disabled = blackout = no adrenaline. Can you explain this to me? Aside from Diversion or similar skills, it seems undisablable; as it is a "skill" and also has no cast time. How can it be disabled or countered any more readily than any other useful elite I might consider for a build of this type? Are you refering to the blackout time in adren skills it causes? If this is the case you have a point, but RotN only lasts 10 seconds, you could use it to charge all your skills, wait for it to end, then pop your adren spike, use RotN again, pop your adren spike twice in a row, then deal with the blackout. For a hammer build (slow attack, so flat adren gain rather than percentage is prefered) with expensive skills and lose all adren skills, RotN seems like a good choice for an adren spiking warrior. Checkout my Sandbox and see what you think of that build. I'm not posting it yet because I need to compare it to some others, but I wanted some advice on the usefulness of RotN in this capacity, especially as compared to other elites.-- Windjammer 05:10, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * When a skill is recharging, it can't gain adrenaline. Also, see TTL. --Silk Weaker 05:25, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Build_talk:Rt/any_Wielders_Weapon
Regarding this build talk page, you started off you comments with "Won't say anything about the build...". Right there you should have stopped and walked away from that talk page. If you cannot comment on the topic, then move on to something else. You continued and stated, "Just because an idiot says something that is true, it does not mean he's not an idiot." Other users even posted to keep on topic. Please do not let this happen again. If it does, administrative action will be taken. &mdash; Gares 15:21, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * As you say.


 * But although you may look at it as an attack, don't forget he's the first one who made rude comments against the build's designer, some of which are baseless. Note his tone of voice. Mine might not be polite, but he did start off with: "I know that this build is useless". While that probably won't justify my response, at least I wasn't being impolite because I was a prick. I didn't feel like I had to be polite with people who bash other people builds for the sake of it, using "rank" (used generally here) as an indication of how good they are and how they must therefore be good, as well as using all of the wrong arguments. The only personal comment I've made that I remember is the implication that he does not really play any serious PvP, which is a relevant comment, considering that he was suggesting that the skills aren't good, and I'm trying to show that they are, naming FoTMs that do use them.


 * Impolite as it is, the very large part of my comment is against his arguements, not his person, and regarding the quoted part, I meant of course that just because I agree that the build itself is not viable, does not mean his arguements and reason for doing so are justfied. I think that's implying that I agree as much as implying that he's stupid.


 * Looking at his personal remarks about me, however...

"lmao dont make me laugh if you dont get what i'm saying ur the noob here"

"keep weap spell up forever? lmao it go away after a few hit"

"might be that wich confuse u..."

"i'll be happy to know from wich guild u are... are you rnaked? or your another nobody, running around and trying to act cool changing what people's word to make them look dumb so you can get abit of self esteem"


 * I think it's obvious enough that he's suggesting I'm stupid/wrong/lower ranked and therefore unexperienced (so much that he has to laugh his ass out on several occasions) and proving that I'm wrong?


 * As you say, I will not argue with people if similar heated debates rise up again, but I can't help but feel at least somewhat justified to defend something from unreasonable bashes from people who can't spell, have no respect, and quite arrogant about nothing in particular over all. I know through what I'm doing right now and maybe before I'm not being much better, but at least I'm not doing this for the sake of ego as it is. Perhaps that's debatable, hmm. --Silk Weaker 20:59, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Evita
For future reference, the quote is: Don't Cry for Me, Argentina. Not Don't Sing for Me, Argentina. =) Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)


 * Ouch. Although, to be honest, Don't Cry for Me, Argentina isn't exactly my favourite song. I kinda liked Oh, What a Circus and High Flying Adored, though. -Silk Weaker 03:02, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Build talk:Rt/Me Expel Healing
Ok, so you got mad at me for crossing out a vote. The voter, NightAngel has a line in his vote that says: "By the way, if you remove the PvE tag you can strike out my vote." That's straight from the vote, and if that's not permission to strike, I don't know what is, it couldn't really be any more explicit. Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)


 * I'm allowed to unfavaor. -Silk Weaker 23:19, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, sorry... that isn't what I meant... I meant that you reverted the strikeout which is what I didn't like. Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)

Sooooo are you going to pop online or....? --Xasxas256 07:20, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

You need to stop...
...being so emo. I know you got stomped on by NPCs (TWICE, NO LESS) but really... it's not the end of the world :P -Auron  10:23, 8 April 2007 (CDT)


 * THANKS FOR TELLING EVERYONE KKKK! -Silk Weaker 10:27, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

:(
*pats back* don't worry, people still care. -Auron  04:50, 14 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's so quiet here. Maybe I need some cats. Or dogs.-Silk Weaker 04:59, 14 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Look at my awesome staff :p Talk:Divine Staff. Stats are even better, double FC healing and req 9 ^.^ &mdash; Skuld 05:01, 14 April 2007 (CDT)



Why Divine Staves though, what are they for?-Silk Weaker 05:05, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

^ lol @ pic :p LoD foreverrrrrrr &mdash; Skuld 05:07, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Monks need their swords for the crippling mods for Return. And YAA. Yaa monks!-Silk Weaker 05:09, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Image copyright problem
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The following is a list of files that need attention: 84.13.251.42 06:57, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
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Character images
haha nice images! &mdash;Sig mA  14:16, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Wake up!
Silk, hurry up and get online! --Xasxas256 04:31, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's ok, chatted to Bender last night, good luck ;) --Xasxas256 18:06, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

/wave --Xasxas256 05:34, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

/jump /wave -Silk Weaker 05:22, 7 June 2007 (CDT)


 * So when do I get to see ya jumpin around in game? You just missed out, I got to be a ranger! --Xasxas256 07:12, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

With who? I haven't seen DEEP play for a while, or have you changed guilds now becuase of the ban? -Silk Weaker 05:29, 9 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Ok I GvGed for the first time in almost month just now. The old DEEP crew and a few more have reformed if you want to get back into it like I am. --Xasxas256 09:30, 2 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I did guest a few times, but they're all on vacation again or something, or, according to Deus, Coota's being a prick, or something. We did get a +3, so I'm happy. -Silk Weaker 07:05, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Yawn
^-Silk Weaker 06:25, 22 August 2007 (CDT)