File talk:Optional.jpg

Should this image have black borders like all of the skill icons? --Gem  09:46, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think so. --130.58 11:05, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I uploaded a new version with the borders. If someone doesn't like it, please comment. Personally I think it looks good in the skill bars. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 11:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I approve. [[Image:Optional.jpg|20px]] The blank canvas symbolizes the unity of world-shattering potential and crippling existential loneliness that is an artist's soul. --130.58 00:29, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Could it be that you have finally found the perfect skill icon for your sig? &mdash; Stabber (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Nah. I might just keep it clean. =) I do like the mdash, though. Much more dignified than --. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 01:22, 13 April 2006 (CDT) )

Purely Artistic...
Can we change this to a png or gif, and have the inside be transparent instead of white. I don't see how it could break too many things in terms of presentation, and when a page background is non-white, it wouldn't scream "LOOK AT ME!!!" like it does right now. Thedarkmarine 16:27, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * i want it to scream "LOOK AT ME!!!". in fact, i want it to screem "LOOK AT ME!!! I'M WRONG! PUT A SKILL HERE! THE HOLLOW IS PAIN!" maybe if we put an eyejaring florescent icon the center of the white it would get people to stop using it. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:43, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I was so moved by this plea that I came up with this as a possible alternative.
 * [[image:optional-1.jpg]]
 * "Optional" Makes CoP-Baby Cry. --Black Ark 18:40, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * i was hoping for something like this
 * [[image:new-optional.gif]]
 * --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 11:58, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 2 words: Ohh my... That's simply horrible! I'm all for transparency, except that jpegs doesn't support transparency, and if we switch file type on optional, it's just too much work to go through everything and edit.


 * And if I saw the CoP-baby in a skillbar, I'd assume that CoP was optional. o.o So.. What's wrong with blank? :p &mdash; Galil  12:15, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * optional is the guildwiki equivilent of "I don't care". it would be much better if every build had a full bar, then said "Replace X with Y if you need YAdvantages." is that really hard? i'd really vote to break optional in every skill bar if i could. or at least move it to "Blank" to signify that no skill should go there, or the author doesn't know what to put. we could upload a "skill-bar grey" icon to match an empty slot on the ingame skill bar. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 12:52, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, I did make it whitish so as to divorce it from CoP in that respect. And also because that icon just freaks me out, looking all blue like that. Compare [[image:optional-1.jpg]] and [[image:Contemplation_of_Purity.jpg]]. Frankly, I think my version is not only distinctly different, it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And not to rag on Sarah's design, but that would sooner drive me insane than urge me to add a skill or two. Would it be an option to just abolish "optional" altogether in the skillbar, and prompt the user to actually add in skills if and when they submit their build, on pain of not being able to submit at all? I don't know my wiki that well, so you tell me. And for what it's worth, I agree that a build should use at least seven slots, with a res-signet as the "filler". God, just add a res-signet to your build, it'll make everyone happy. --Black Ark 17:19, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * As .jpg does not support transparent background, and .png doesn't scale appropriately in the wiki, how about just modifying the current image to use an off-white color? A very pale yellow, brown, blue, or gray?  Might take the edge off, while still allowing it to clearly show that there's an open skill slot. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:46, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * A little bit off topic; if Gravewit approves to my changes, soon enough the wiki will resize png images decently. :) &mdash; Galil  13:13, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I can see an advantage in using resizable .png icons. I just hope users don't start uploading large .png images once they can re-size cleanly into thumbs on the articles.  My understanding is that part of the recent purge of old images was to free up disk space.  For larger images where image quality can stand compression and still be usable, I feel we should still enforce the .jpg preference from GW:IMAGE (note: I suppose we should move any discussion on this, if needed, to that policy's talk page if/when the changes go into effect). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:52, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * a sample skillbar

how many people would let that sit? someone would change it. that's the point, convince people that "optional" is to be avoided as much as possible. --Honorable Sarah 17:30, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * If you're trying to have a discussion about build style and formatting, move it to a better place. --68.142.14.106 17:47, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Difference of opinion on basic assumptions. I do not believe that "optional" should be avoided.  If a particular skill trully is optional, then let it show that fact - not try to insert an arbitrary skill that may work well with the build but isn't required for the core design purpose.  But as 68.142 mentions, this should probably be discussed in the style & formatting page for builds or skills.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:52, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm serious, this works. You wouldn't leave this as is. No person is that heartless. Best of all, this solution won't make the build-article look like "My First GeoCities". --Black Ark 19:51, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Why not something like this?
 * {| style="border:0; text-align: center; border-collapse:collapse;"

Illusionary Weaponry Flurry Shield Bash Optional Optional Optional Optional Resurrection Signet
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * style=" vertical-align:top; width:68px; border:1px dotted #444;"|
 * }
 * &mdash; Galil  20:02, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * For one thing, it doesn't change the current solution - don't get me wrong, it looks good and sensible, but it won't prompt people to actually finish their build, nor will it urge other people to add skills in lieu of the original poster. Emotional blackmail is the key. --Black Ark 20:04, 1 August 2006 (CDT)