User talk:NieA7/Build:Me/E Flashfire

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 * (cur) (last) 23:06, 9 April 2007 PanSola (Talk | contribs) m (Reverted edits by 68.58.47.248 (talk); changed back to last version by NieA7)
 * (cur) (last) 19:53, 8 April 2007 68.58.47.248 (Talk) (Fixed false information saying fire storm was 15 energy.)
 * (cur) (last) 10:37, 14 March 2007 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Undo revision 715840 by Special:Contributions/63.28.29.6 (User talk:63.28.29.6) Both went down by 5 energy)
 * (cur) (last) 00:20, 14 March 2007 63.28.29.6 (Talk) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 01:22, 4 February 2007 Entropy (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants - - don't over-wikify)
 * (cur) (last) 01:22, 4 February 2007 Forgotten One (Talk | contribs) (→Usage)
 * (cur) (last) 01:20, 4 February 2007 Forgotten One (Talk | contribs) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 01:19, 4 February 2007 Forgotten One (Talk | contribs) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 04:44, 27 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 04:42, 27 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 12:04, 22 January 2007 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 17:52, 17 January 2007 Barek (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 10:51, 12 December 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (fix link, bar rejig)
 * (cur) (last) 16:21, 11 December 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Tidy for Nightfall + a couple of variants)
 * (cur) (last) 18:14, 18 November 2006 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (cleanup)
 * (cur) (last) 09:42, 17 November 2006 Fyrenbot (Talk | contribs) m (bot: build move (adding sort key to cats))
 * (cur) (last) 09:42, 17 November 2006 Fyrenbot (Talk | contribs) m (Me/E Flashfire moved to Build:Me/E Flashfire: bot: build move (moving article to build namespace))
 * (cur) (last) 12:19, 27 October 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (-NF update, see talk)
 * (cur) (last) 11:53, 27 October 2006 Xeeron (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 07:06, 31 August 2006 193.61.111.50 (Talk) (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 16:37, 22 August 2006 Theeth (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants - + fire storm and decoupling mantra of concentration)
 * (cur) (last) 21:42, 21 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Added competitive missions stuff)
 * (cur) (last) 03:38, 20 August 2006 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (+tested)
 * (cur) (last) 11:13, 14 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Moved comment to talk page)
 * (cur) (last) 02:37, 14 August 2006 67.170.1.116 (Talk) (→Attributes and Skills)
 * (cur) (last) 14:08, 9 August 2006 ST47 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 10:05, 4 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (→Usage)
 * (cur) (last) 08:58, 4 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (→Equipment)
 * (cur) (last) 08:57, 4 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (→Attributes and Skills)
 * (cur) (last) 08:54, 4 August 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (→Variants)
 * (cur) (last) 23:28, 29 July 2006 Praettor (Talk | contribs) (→Equipment)
 * (cur) (last) 16:40, 28 July 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Skill swap, usage notes update)
 * (cur) (last) 07:11, 28 July 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Me/E Auspicious Nuker moved to Me/E Flashfire: Rename for clarity - build is not a classical nuker)
 * (cur) (last) 21:09, 25 July 2006 NieA7 (Talk | contribs) m (Build page created)

Rate-a-Build
Favoured:
 * 1) I've been using this build all over the Southern Shiverpeaks and in AB - it works very well. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.14.178.178 (contribs) 22:31, 3 August 2006.
 * 2) works as advertised. --Theeth (talk)   12:50, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 3) Very innovative build. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:37, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 4) It rapes shit.--Raps4life 18:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * 5) Really solid build, innovative energy management. One disadvantage is that it requires you to own all three Guild Wars campaigns. -- 24.86.89.35 17:28, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * 6) Oh dear me. I don't know what to say. --Nova 20:08, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * 7) Works well when you don't feel like running Dual Attunements. Entropy 23:40, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * 8) The way to go for really fast areadamage &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.160.180.57 (contribs).
 * 9) Me like Fast damage ^ ^ -X H K
 * 10) This build works perfectly, especially if you use the improved version. No energy management problem if there are ennemies! Love it! -- Gizmo 07:18, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * 11) Tried it out in AB's recently and it worked well, though energy could be a problem in longer battles. Still nice though. DKS01 18:21, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Unfavoured:
 * 1) Weak energy maintenance and damage is weak compared with E/Me Echo nuker or E/Me Renewal Nuker. -- Sigm@ [[image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 13:14, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Merge
All of the FC Elementalists in Alliance Battles should be merged into one build imo.--Raps4life 00:34, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * Uhm... No. PvE build here. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 00:48, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Reasoning
It can't do the really long haul like an Elementalist, but it's sure as hell faster. With 15FC cast times are halved, the two weapons regularly reduce recharge time and with 64 energy plus Attunement/Auspicious you can keep going longer than most Fast Casting Elementalists. Two Meteor Showers in quick succession makes a real mess of most mobs at the start of a fight, and even after that you've still got a fairly large pool of energy to play with.

I've not played as a /E for long and I've run out of skill points to try out new skills - do any of you experienced Elementalists have any suggestions to replace Incendiary Bonds? Breath of Fire works nicely due to its low cost, but Incendiary Bonds seems a bit of an uneasy fit with everything else. I was thinking Lava Font for when something nasty gets up close and personal. --NieA7 17:09, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Rodgort's Invocation, Flame Burst &mdash; Skuld 17:32, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I took a look at Rodgort's but figured it was too expensive to run, although I guess it could be used when Meteor Shower isn't (use AI on it, that'd give you +38 energy for AI, +7 for attunement and leave RI with a 45 second recharge). Flame Burst's range seems a bit lacking, plus it's no cheaper than Incendiary Bonds. I'll give Rodgort a go when I get a chance. --NieA7 18:14, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Flame Burst is spammable and you can spike foolish frenzy wars :) If you have energy to spam, don't really understand AI, need to test that skill &mdash; Skuld 18:22, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * In this build all AI is doing is either ensuring you have max energy (64, 3 pips) when you cast the first fireball or, for Meteor Shower, ensuring you have a full energy bar after you've cast the second shower (about 46ish with exhaustion). It's got a pretty long recharge so you can't use it more than once per skirmish. After that you just have to make sure Fire Attunement is kept up and keep an eye on how much energy you have. That's what made me wary of Rodgort's, a humble Mesmer doesn't have enough energy to keep that going after the AI trick. Mind you, AI gives so much energy back that Echo, MS, Echoed MS, AI, RI might be possible, have to try that. --NieA7 03:16, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I have used this build since it was renamed Flashfire, and in PvE it's the most powerful thing a mesmer can do. The energy management is awesome - here's what I was doing.  I'd cast Fire Attunement, pull the Fire Wand off, regain my energy, put the wand on, cast Echo, Rodgort's Invocation or Meteor Shower, wait a few seconds, cast the other spell I didn't cast (if I had casted Rodgort's, I'd cast Meteor Shower, and visa versa), then do the Auspicious Incantation -> Echo.  Using AI on the Echo'd spell means the recharge time is just dandy.  In the Ring of Fire islands/missions, echoing Breath of Fire destroyed the Ether Seals.  I favor this build heavily.

Recharge times
How is it a "steady stream" if your nukes are recharging for about 2 minutes? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 23:05, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Never said it was a steady stream of nukes, I said it's a steady stream of fire magic spells - echoed Fireball with 15 FC means 91 adjacent-wide damage every 4 seconds. Besides, using AI on an echoed meteor shower doesn't affect the recharge of the original, so it's a minute recharge on the nuke at most. Either way I'm going to tweak the build slightly - I think Skuld is onto something with Rodgort. I'll rename it too, it's not a classical nuker per se. --NieA7 03:10, 28 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, if you put it that way, how can I say no? :P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:36, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

Tweaked
OK, added the burninator instead of IB. Now the chain is Meteor Shower - Rodgort - Meteor Shower, with no let up in the showers. Personally I think it's pretty bitching now ^.^ --NieA7 12:45, 28 July 2006 (CDT)
 * If the targets aren't tanked up well, or for some reason they move around a lot, do you think switching Meteor Shower and Rodgort's Invocation would work? As in Echo - Rodgort's Invocation - Meteor Shower - AI - Rodgort's Invocation? --Nova 20:21, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, absolutely. I often do this depending on the situation - often 6 seconds of burning causes more damage than the meteor shower. --NieA7 16:02, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Moved comment
this build is great for capping by yourself in AB ^^ -- added by 67.170.1.116 at 04:37, 14 August 2006

Competitive Missions
Over the double faction weekend I tried this build out in both the competitive missions. It works pretty well - it's excellent for clearing out NPC clusters and puts serious dents in turtles and Master Architects. As this is only a minor tweak to the build (Fire Storm instead of the res signet) I've updated the page, however I know that as a rule we're not meant to change approved builds - if anyone disapproves feel free to revert so we can discuss. --NieA7 17:41, 21 August 2006 (CDT)

Word to the above. I use this build in Aspenwood all the time and it burns through gatekeepers like nothing else. However, i would reccommend switching out AI for an enchantment removal to give monks some grief and to deal with the lack of energy, death works nearly as well as AI in Competetive missions, if not better. 69.231.202.228 11:23, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

Nightfall skills update
Auspicious Incantation, Fireball, Breath of Fire and Meteor Shower haven't changed. Fire Attunement and Echo have both been buffed fairly significantly. The reduced energy cost of Rodgort's Invocation means that using Auspicious Incantation on it won't be as effective as it was before, but on the flip side it may now be possible to Echo it and spam that instead of Fireball, then use AI on the last Echo cast - I'll have to check tonight. Now that the Glyph's last multiple spells it may be worthwhile bringing one of those instead of Breath of Fire. --NieA7 08:11, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Idiot, it was Mark of Rodgort that got changed, not Rodgort's Invocation. Rodgort's Invocation hasn't changed, so overall all that's happened with the skill change is that this build's been buffed quite nicely - I'll remove the notice. --NieA7 08:18, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

Glyph of Lesser Energy vs AI
I agree, the Glyph seems to me more effcient. I mean to use Glyph of Lesser Energy instead of Auspicious Incantation. Because Auspicious Incantation being used for the copy of a 25 energy spell at Inspiration attribute 7, means, more or less:
 * Auspicious Incantation 25*152/100 = 38 energy free to be used in any spell
 * recharge time 25 seconds + 25 seconds (added because the 25 energy spell) = 50 seconds
 * this gives (38-5)/50 = 0.66 energy/1 second


 * Glyph of Lesser Energy 30 energy bounded to two spells imply saving: 30, 25, 20 energy
 * recharge time = 30 seconds
 * this gives (30-5)/30, (25-5)/30, (20-5)/30 = 0.83/1 second, 0.66/1s, 0.5/1s

Resume: only if it is used the Glyph for two 10 energy spells the energy saved is less than with Auspicius Incantation, in other cases is equal or more efficient. Now, add, as well, 1) that Auspicious Incantation given energy is free, nevertheless, it may be less complicate to use the Glyph than Auspicious Incantation, 2) that with the Glyph you can keep the full potencial of 4 pips, because the Glyph adds the difference of 15 energy (to equal the +15 energy of the wand).--mariano 09:33, 21 January 2007 (CST)


 * Glyph of Lesser Energy is viable (I'll add it to the variants), but you're forgetting a couple of factors in your comparison:
 * AI is a spell, so it casts in half a second rather than the 1 second taken by the Glyph.
 * AI gives you versatility. Glyph reduces energy cost but won't give you anything back, Auspicious can be used on a non-echoed Rodgort's to practically refill your energy bar ready for your other spells.
 * The Glyph is certainly less complicated, but ultimately I think it's less effective - not by much, but enough to make taking Auspicious worth while. I would also never recommend not using the +15/-1 wand - fact is these are hefty spells (though the skill balance weekend changes, if made permanent, open up a couple of other avenues), the extra starting energy is needed. The fact that you lose is a pip is offset by the huge chunks of energy that Auspicious returns when used with one of the high cost spells. --NieA7 07:03, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * After reading the article on Auspicious Incantation I suggest the idea mentioned there of using Auspicious Incantation together with the Glyph of Lesser Energy. It is possible to cast AI followed by GofLE -which is not a spell- followed by an Echoed spell to get the energy from AI. This would allow the player to wait until energy is as low as 20 -or a bit less than 20-. For a Me/E, AI may be interesting combined with the Glyph to get lots of energy. --mariano 13:01, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * I believe you can, though I've not tried it myself. The only problem with that is that it would mean losing another damage dealing spell, which would be a pretty big hit in a simple damage-dealing build that already has 4 skills that deal no direct damage. It would perhaps be worth it if there was another Rodgort's Invocation-esque spell in the Pyromancer's line up - very high energy, very high damage, quick recharge - but the only other 25 energy spells are Searing Heat and Teinai's Heat, both of which have a 30 second recharge (and neither of which seem very good to me to be honest). Taking the glyph would allow you to spam an echoed Rodgort's in theory, but in practice "spam" would translate to 4 times in about 20 seconds (original, echoed, glyphed original, glyphed AI'd echoed), which hardly seems worth the effort. I guess it could work if you brought Arcane Echo as well, but that'd bring your damage dealing spells down to 2, which a huge gap to fill while you wait for the echo's to recharge. --NieA7 03:57, 25 January 2007 (CST)

You can indeed, I am using Auspicious Incantation just before Glyph of Lesser Energy and it works very nicely :)

Breath of Fire got buffed, which makes this build even better now. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 16:06, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * Loads of nukes got buffed - my wiki and GW time is really limited at the moment, but I'm going to have a play with the altered spells and see if anything else fits better. --NieA7 19:02, 3 February 2007 (CST)

I had to try this build when I saw it, and would like to add... it does well for energy management with just glyph of lesser energy and AI. I walked through Tyria without using Fire Attunement once! Van Wark 21:17, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Much Improved Variant
Not to say this build is bad, but I happen to think I have a much more effective varient, which can use Echo'd Meteor Shower and Rodgort's Invocation every time they recharge without energy troubles. This build would be the following:

Skill order is Fire Attunement -> Arcane Echo -> Meteor Shower -> Auspicious Incantation -> Glyph of Energy -> Meteor Shower -> Fireball -> Rodgort's Invocation -> Fireball -> Fireball -> Rodgort's Invocation -> Fireball -> Fireball -> Rodgort's Invocation -> Fireball -> Arcane Echo... etc.

With Auspicious & Glyph of Energy at the same time, the Echo-ing of Meteor Shower actually gains you energy, and only causes exhaustion once. Each susequent 15 second mark, you can use Glyph of Energy on Rodgort's Invocation to gain yourself 3 energy and do a lot of damage. Zerris 01:39, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Another Variant
I've been playing around with this in AB lately, and this variant is working very well for me--enough single-target spike capability to knock down a lot of soft targets, and the AoE ability to knock down capture points very quickly. Lacks a res signet, though, or a decent place to put one (although maybe swapping Savannah Heat for Searing Flames and getting rid of Immolate, now that I think of it), so not very useful elsewhere.

Single targets go fireball->immolate->glowing gaze and so on as skills recharge, possibly echoing fireball for better sustained capability. Incantation and Rodgort's when energy gets low.

Against a shrine, it's generally echo, savannah heat, echoed savannah heat, incantaion, and rodgort's, which (for 60AL staying 'nearby', anyway) is about 600 fire damage plus three seconds of burning.