Talk:Blinding Surge

← Moved from Template talk:Blinding Surge

Nice counter to Dual Smite bunny thumpers :) I wonder if the recharge and cast aren't a bit too much. --Karlos 04:59, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

Woot, a little variation with Flash Bots, interesting. Ubermancer 02:52, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Expect this to appear on a billion elementalist *secondaries*. You only need 2 Air Magic to keep one enemy blinded permanently! 5 energy, sweet recharge? Put it on a 'sin or something! -Flypaper

wamo's with mending are so dead with this skill -Angelo
 * Werent they SO dead already?--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 18:35, 25 November 2006 (CST)

This was highly annoying to me in Fort Aspenwood...infinite blind. Assassinman 00:46, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

NOT COOL!!!! blnding flash:same duration 3 times as long, longer recharge, no aoe. Then, of course, you just use both the sucker spells and blind anything you see. Or just echo this and blind a zillion trillion mobs in pve. (Not a fifty five 00:53, 27 September 2006 (CDT))


 * ouch. Warriors and sins get steamrolled with this.--Life Infusion 20:35, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmmm, but will all the E/mo be willing to let go of their precious energy for HP? Still, this looks great. --Xeeron 06:47, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Like someone said above, put it on an elementalist secondary. --Fyren 10:00, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

This is stupid powerful. STUPID powerful. This skill reeks of power creep, and I really hope it gets toned down. Tarinoc 13:45, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * How do you come to that conclusion? Its basically Lightning Strike + Blinding Flash that takes up an elite slot. I would still prefer dual attune air spiker or ether prodigy because theres a lot more I can do with it. Oh yeah, and this doesn't have AP so its really going to deal like 25 damage vs a warrior at full air. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 13:49, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

The damage has nothing to do with it and is, as you say, minor. It's spammable, sustainable blind (on multiple foes if the target is enchanted) for 5 energy, and with bonus damage to boot. You could keep up to three people blinded indefinitely with this. Arshay Duskbrow 15:29, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah you could. Blinding Flash + Epidemic [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 16:15, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Yes, except for that whole, "They have to be RIGHT BESIDE EACH OTHER" limitation. With Surge you can blind three people and keep them blinded with one skill anywhere within your spell range. Arshay Duskbrow 16:47, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, and the combo I mentioned does the SAME EXACT THING except it doesnt take up an elite slot. Besides that, it doesn't rely on the assumption that my opponent has an enchantment. Listen it really doesn't matter, there never really is need for a mass AOE blind effect and if there is you would be better off using wards or aegis instead of sacrificing your elite and assuming they will have an enchantment. Sorry, this skill doesn't replace blinding flash on my bar. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 21:20, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Good. I hope that others share your mentality and no one uses this skill. "Sorry, this skill doesn't replace blinding flash on my bar." Here's an analogy: Crippling Shot vs Pin Down. Crippling Shot is already great, but we could power creep it like Blinding Surge: imagine if Crippling Shot cost 5 energy instead of 15 AND could potentially hit multiple opponents. This is the ridiculous power that is Blinding Surge. Tarinoc 23:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Huge comparison difference between the two. Cripshot rangers are ment for pressure and they do a great job of it by restricting the movement of targets while adding degen to cover cripple and this is all besides the fact that pin down has a godawful long recharge. Blinding Surge doesn't create pressure because it isnt very harmful and blind only works against melee classes, which blinding flash does just fine at 1 second longer recharge without sacrificing your elite slot. You won't see this used a lot in any situation because people will realize they can't do a lot of damage with air unless they also bring additional energy management which would sacrifice more skills in their bar. Just look at the commonly used damage skills from air and see how much energy they use: Lightning Orb, Lightning Strike, Lightning Hammer. Even if you dropped hammer from that list (which you should if you're not using an elite for management), you're still spending 20 energy and only getting back 5 of it. And this skill does not replace Lightning Strike because it doesnt have AP. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 16:21, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

Exactly. I wasn't even talking about the Enchantment -> AoE. That's IN ADDITION to the fact that, at 3 second recharge and assuming 9 or 10 second duration, you can keep 2 or 3 people indefinitely blinded. That by itelf would be an incredibly powerful elite. The AoE blind bonus just puts it completely over the top. Anyway, I'm not too worried, as this will almost surely be nerfed at some point. Arshay Duskbrow 02:58, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

I'm sorry, you've got to be kidding. Blinding flash? Do you see the damned cost? I would use blinding surge over flash even without the damage and without the aoe. Epidemic is a stupid skill, and I must question why you even mentioned it. Let's see, elemental attunement. Are you going to place this on a mesmer? I don't think so. Is it going to be stripped? Against a good team, hell yes. Why do you think noone uses IWs? 50 DPS is quite frightening. What are the chances that the target's going to be enchanted? Not high, in a way. Protters aren't as staple as before, and warriors rarely need enchantment buffs, but with dervi coming in, that may change. Certainly in dual/triple smite the blinds would be easy. Remember, you cost the same as mend condition and ailment, with same recharge as the latter, except you deal damage and have chance of aoe. Besides, Blinding Flash usually are for instant saves anyway, not long term damage mitigation. I understand that heal party and extinguish would cost a bit now, without prodigy, but if you focus on something else, or use a mesmer as mentioned, you wouldn't have an issue. No expel hex, sure, but there are many neat hex removal spells for monks now. BL amongst them. Also note that there is no armor penetration, but since when do eles deal alot of damage anyway? --Silk Weaker 03:13, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeaaah, blinding flash, why? Because you can spam other high energy spells with dual attunements and deal massive amounts of damage without worrying about your energy. It all makes sense! You could do the same thing even if you're using Ether Prodigy but add in the effect of carrying other skills to help your party! I'm not going to waste my time maintaining blind on a fictional 3 different targets. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C) 09:21, 5 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Jesus, what are you all so scared about? Please tell me you'll have enough brains to scatter just a *little* bit when you see an ele spamming this. Not overpowred at all. It's too conditional for the AOE blind to kick in all the time. I'm really tired of people trying to call every nightfall skill "overpowered".


 * So if they made an unconditional dazed, maintainable on 2 or 3 people for a potential 3 en per person per 9 seconds at 12, which would be area effect if the target is enchanted it's ok because the monks can scatter? Somehow I think every caster in the game would be rather pissed off if such an elite was created, rather than thinking that it's balanced.


 * Dazed is a serious offensive power in addition to the ability to defensively shutting down an enemy caster. Blind is annoying, and could eventually lead to your loss if you can't pressure the other team enough. Dazed is immediately life-threatening. Not the same.

Well Just about every nightfall skill IS overpowered! Heh and I've finally seen what Anet intended with this. Now you don't need ele primary to flash bot, the elite replaces ele attune, air attune and blinding flash into one skill (Not a fifty five 10:45, 19 October 2006 (CDT))

It DOES have armor penetration. Read the skill description in-game. I've updated the template page to reflect this. Riotgear 04:30, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

OH NOES!!! THE ELE HAS AOE BLIND!!! NF IS UNBALANCED!!! I don't understand the big deal? What about Glimmering Mark? We've had that since prophecies, and it is unconditional AoE blind (essentially). Sure it takes a bit longer to cast, and it costs 5 more energy, but after that, you can hit them with your Air weapons and blind everyone around the hexed player until the hex is removed, or until the time runs out. If Glimmering Mark isn't used much in PvP, then why would they use Blinding Surge? StatMan 10:20, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Its a hex.. so hex removal, and it requires 3+ seconds to blind one guy from casting + wanding/lightning strike in... or you can get a 1/2 sec cast of it from a dom mesmer. &mdash; Skuld 10:26, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Glimmering Mark has only recently been buffed to its current status. Regardless, it's too slow and cumbersome a move to cause blindness when you want it. --Ufelder 10:49, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I think the most significant difference between Glimmering and Blinding Surge is their casting times, and while I don't want to go so far as to say I know how balanced either of the skills are, I think that the casting time is the strongest factor and should be considered the most. I say this because primary professions that suffer the most from Blind (Warrior, Assassin)are also the least capable of removing Blind. Assassins have Signet of Malice and Assassin's Remedy, but both require that the target is can be hit (critical,Condition). Warriors have nothing. '''So? They have Secondary professions for that!''' Of course :) But are condition removal skills practical for these two primary professions? I'll try to show the situation so you can decide yourself (since I don't claim to know). A Glimmering Mark opponent has to deal with a casting time of two full seconds, so the Assassin has a fairly wide window of opportunity to work with. Additionally, the Glimmering Mark opponent must sync a Lightning attack on the Assassin before they connect with a condition-inflicting attack. In an ideal world, this would take barely over 2 seconds for the Glimmering Mark opponent to proc a Blind. If an Assassin is looking to inflict a Condition or critical strike on his opponent, he has a very good chance of proccing a Shadow Step and either a Condition or interrupt or critical strike before this happens. Contrarily, a Blinding Surge opponent relies on his reaction time and reaction time alone. If the Blinding Surge opponent spots the Assassin heading towards him and activates Surge the moment he is capable (say, right when the Assassin activates Shadow Step), the Assassin will be Blinded just before his attack completes. So, the Blinding Surge player will nearly always have the upper-hand in terms of reaction-time. As far as Warriors are concerned, unless they have Shadow Step or a Sprint skill, it is unlikely that they will successfully close on an opponent using either Blinding Surge or Glimmering Mark without being Blinded at least once during that time (especially when you consider things like Ward of Melee, where most Elementalists will be fighting out of). Well, it appears that the Elementalist generally has the upper-hand in terms of reacting first, but do Secondary Profession skills exist to counteract this ability? This is where I'm not too sure. Skills exist in other professions that can remove Conditions quickly and easily. But the shaky ground for these counters to Blind is that besides the following fairly short list, there isn't anything 3/4 casting time or under: Plague Touch (Necromancer), Purge Conditions, Mending Touch, Mend Ailment, (Monk), Mend Body and Soul (Rit), and Weapon of Remedy (Rit Elite), That means that the remaining skills are very susceptible to interrupts/knockdowns (esp. Assassin), drastically reduce the damage output of the Warrior/Assassin (long activation time), and eat up energy(which the Warrior seldom can spare). Additionally, this list limits Warrior and Assassin secondary professions to Monk, Necromancer, or Ritualist if one wants to be able to have a consistent counter to Blinding Surge or Glimmering Mark. If I were to say anything were to be changed, it would somehow need to involve activation times, to allow more diversity within Warrior/Assassin primaries. That's my 2 cents. GrammarNazi 13:52, 26 January 2007 (CST)

I agree with GrammarNazi, this skill is still overpowered for the reasons he mentions: melee characters having no easy way without a second profession to remove Blind; and in my eyes, 10 energy isn't prohibitive of still having constant Blind on someone (or a group of people). This is how I look at it: Blind = complete melee shutdown and Dazed = complete caster shutdown, so there is a condition that shuts-down both character types. But how many skills are there of each type? Just about any skill that causes Dazed is ridiculously conditional and Dazed is usually very short-lived. Even using Dazed solely as a countermeasure to being blinded by a caster is almost impossible, due to the conditional requirements of some of the skills. After the buff, Beguiling Haze is probably the best option (for Assassins anyways), but even still, the window of opportunity is small and not often repeated (Beguiling Haze needs a slight buff, IMHO, but that's a different argument). Bottom line is that Blind is too hard to remove from the professions that it affects the most. As my 'sin or tank in PvP, even if I have Plague Touch or some way to remove conditions, as soon as I remove blind, it's right back on me; the blinding skills, specifically this one, are far too spammable. --Insidious420 13:46, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * /agree with Insidious. I play assassins a lot in PvP, especially RA and TA. I find that EVERY SINGLE TIME I come up against a Blinding Surge ele, I am completely useless to my team (maybe sometimes even a hindrence because of the monk working to keep blind off me and not succeeding, and having to keep me alive). With a 4 second casting time, a monk will remove the condition, and you will have about a 1-2 second window to try to take out that caster. The monk is working to keep your other team healed, and having to worry about removing your blind every two seconds is too much. Many times the condition-removal skill will be recharging when the blind is re-applied. Not to mention the other monk on their team. They can throw down a quick Gift of Health, and that will let the ele survive just long enough to cast Blinding Surge again, therfore completely removing you from the equation for 10 seconds or until your monk removes the condition, which will easily give the monk enough time to completely heal the ele, who then has enough time to spam Blinding Surge. And unless Sins and Warriors start carrying around Signet of Humility then the ele is almost completely invulnerable to them. --One Three Three Seven 17:04, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't really agree with Grammar Nazi... You say: 'This gives the Assassin planty of time to work, in which he can inflict a condition or land a critical hit'. Now, suppose an Assassin lands a critical hit, nothing unbelievable happens that would allow him to somehow evade the blind. And if he really does inflic a condition, then who sais it isn't going to be removed? And as to 'They sadly have to be a secondary monk/.../ Rt', so let's imagine they're secondary Rt... Why have a blind remover when you can have a blind immunity? Sight Beyond Sight, yes: It's Spawning Power, but look at the skill comment. Don't agree with it? Have it removed then, but you'll have to fight another battle before doing so. And even if it is 8 seconds, as you said yourself 'Giving the Assassin plenty of time to work', you get the idea. Of course there's no IAS anymore, but killing something within 8 seconds isn't a big deal for an Assassin. And even if you would suppose that the Blinding Surge is being spammed on the melee fighter which does not have Sight Beyond Sight, and that the monk is constantly removing it with some good removal. That would mean that the ele will have to focus ALL of his time and attention to that one melee fighter. At some point he'll get tired of it and decide to use the other 6 (If he's using 7, -which is a resurrecttion skill, would mean his team is having trouble) skills. People want their builds to be effective, they want to see some results and will not waste their time doing something there is seemingly no end to. Oh and by the way, what happend to our good old diversion? Or anti spamming skills?
 * Who's to say that the ele can't just use their other six skills on the sin that they are working to blind. And as for Diversion, the mesmer will most likely be concentrating on the monk, and if he isn't, and he is concenctrating on the ele, that means that you are free to do your thing but so is the opposing monk who can prot the ele and keep him alive long enough for Diversion to wear off. --[[Image:GW_Dismember.jpg|50x19px]]One Three Three Seven 12:17, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Where is it?
Only ele skill I have not found. :( Where can it be? --Karlos 05:23, 5 November 2006 (CST)

I added the cap location to the page - Former Ruling 21:33, 5 November 2006 (CST)

Those are some funny notes =p "Blind Surge is similar to the skill Blinding Flash, but with a lower recharge time and cast time" P A R A S I T I C 22:48, 17 November 2006 (CST)

Damn, this boss was hard to solo w/ my War... Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:22, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Remove note
Since the energy is upped to 10, I am suggesting a removal of the "low energy" notice. However I will leave it to someone more xped to acutally make the change should it be deemed necessary.

Lightning Strike
wtf, I'm removing it-- SigmA 13:01, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * They deal the exact same amount of damage to their target. In fact, Enervating Charge is technically more related, since it deals the same damage and causes a condition. --Curse You 16:49, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's irrelevant, the important thing about Blinding Surge is that it is a spammable blind spell. So the only really related skill should be Blinding Flash. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:52, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * That would be the reason that I didn't edit the article. I was simply making a point about why someone may consider Lightning Srike to be related to Blinding Surge. --Curse You 22:40, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, I see the point in adding Enervating Charge. Both do the same amount of damage, and inflict a melee-crippling condition Twinkie Doomcaster 18:14, 5 May 2007 (CDT)

Icon
I know that the icon is some unfortunate fellow getting his eyes lasered out, but whenever I glance at it's icon during gameplay, it always looks like someone snapping their fingers with beams of light coming out. Anyone else notice this? --Gimmethegepgun 12:26, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No, but I thought up to today on my 13 month old necromancer that the image for Parasitic Bond was a staricase. --[[image:Necromancer-icon-small.png]]Skax459 22:06, 26 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Very Giger-esque staircase. I always think this icon looks kind of like a rose when I glance at it. &mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 22:08, 26 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I see a skull in Parasitic's icon. M s4 22:22, 26 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That's because you are uncreative and boring. =D &mdash; JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 22:25, 26 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No in fact, this makes me intelligent due to my use of context clues, the skill name =P M s4 20:28, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe the most important thing about the icon is that the fellow being blinded looks like a dervish (with a bit of his hood in the lower right corner). This skill is a great counter for Dervishes since they use enchantments more offer than the Warriors do.-- Miss Velvetine'' [[Image:Imbue_Health.jpg|25px|(Talk Page)]] 12:10, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Parasitic bond is a fossilised fossil. &mdash; Shady Guy  [[Image:shadyguysig.gif|19px]] 12:43, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

GLimmering mark
Wtf glimmering mark?? lets just put in blinding powder while we're at it. =P. ones a hex that only blinds when it gets hit by lighting dmg, the other is a short spamable aoe blind skill. 24.177.37.19 21:15, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

Trivia
The recently removed trivia made me reconsider what dry sarcasm or identity crisis really meant. I mean, it's SUPPOSED to look like a surge of steam hitting someone, but hey, who knows what occurs in A-net's mind...It made the floor roll on me laughing. Flechette 08:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Overpowered
I think this spells is sickly overpowered, and I do not even play much melee in pvp. This is purely spammable to no end, the ele can easily keep 3+ people blinded. A monk can sit and draw (which I have) but it can be placed back on as fast as it can be removed. (71.82.137.61 09:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC))
 * It's not quite as useful or spammable as you seem to think. Not only do air eles use huge amounts of energy on other spells, but just about everyone nowadays has an interrupt, condition removal, or both. Diversion completely kills it, and when they spam it it's not hard to know went to rupt/divert. Silven 09:32, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It is rather energy intensive, and as stated by Silven you gotta be wary of interrupts. Oh, and you can't blind 3 people at once. every ~5sec you can blind one for 7-8seconds. Unless they all use Mending and ball up, but you deserve to be blinded then, anyhow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 09:57, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well playing as a monk, i have no problems keeping blind of sins/wars/rangers/paras/dervs when eles are using this. Also caster shutdown such as BHA, Migraine, Frustration etc can stop eles using this. Signet of Humility or Diversion spam will also stop them spamming it so much. And as viper said, you can't keep 3 people blinded at once, at 14 air you can cause blindless for 8 seconds with a 4 second recharge and 3/4 cast time you can keep 2 people blinded constantly for 31/4 seconds if you time it exactly right and spam untill your energy runs out.--Cobalt | Talk  11:26, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

This used to be cost 5 energy. That's overpowered. －Sora 16:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That was a long long time ago, and the fact that it was overpowered then was the reason it got nerfed. I think it's pretty well balanced as it is right now --Cobalt | <font color="Green">Talk</B>  19:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Still makes half the professions in the game useless which is very powerful. I'm hoping they won't nerf it though cause I abuse it . Mr IP 09:11, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

NERF April 17, 2008
Costs the same, has reduced recharge, but has had its blind duration almost halved in comparison to the old 14 Air Magic. Discuss. I am personally fond of this because now if someone is hell bent on keeping a melee character blinded, he will be casting this skill often enough for him to not be casting many other things in between. It may finally be the end of the Blinding Surge Elementalist.ArisB 00:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL yay :D --[[Image:Lann-sf2.jpg|19px]] <font color="#900020">Lann 00:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * B-Surge R.I.P (finally)?Konradishes 13:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's still useful, in a Clumsiness kind of way. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  13:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Its definately a buff in PvP.  Conditions like blind are usually remove ~1-2 seconds after they are applied.   The blindness never lasted the full duration.  Now, it can be reapplied faster though. -TK Hawkins
 * You use it intelligently, when their warriors are about to unload. Less effective in reducing pressure, maybe, but still perfectly usable. Lord of all tyria 20:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * IT'S A TEMPORARY UPDATE READ THE UPDATE PAGEMercurius Ter Maxim 06:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm pretty sure they all know that. Doesn't mean it can't be discussed in a civilized manner (and since the guru thread was closed within 8 hours of it openning, there aren't many places to go). - TK Hawkins
 * I Actually like this better as is. It makes it a lot harder for an ele to keep a character constantly blinded. And it still has the "...if Enchanted..." effect.--204.10.216.174 18:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah. All of the recent updates end on May 2, and the reason that B-Flash was involved is because the updates are related to GvG's overused skills, and B-Flash fits that description. Don't freak. *Sorry forgot to sign* 68.231.12.44 16:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

OP again
Hoohah 21:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * When was it ever NOT OP? At least they had enough sense to reduce the duration though --Gimmethegepgun 21:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They should have reverted it so that it did aoe blind if that person was under effect of an enchantment. that was pretty balanced in reality...--Demer Osis 01:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that was horridly balanced in reality, but it was closer to balanced than THIS --Gimmethegepgun 03:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)