GuildWiki talk:Don't shout at each other!

Why?
Like any good policy, this one explains how things work on the wiki, and how they ought to work. :) -- ◄mendel► 10:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't support the "Policy" section. The advice is mostly fine. PanSola's idea of making some "policy" into "guidelines" instead comes to mind. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course we don't have to and can use admin discretion instead. My thought is that having a stated policy (and keeping to it) can serve to "objectify" editors in emotional upheaval who are quick to see intervening admins as opponents. By using a "canned" warning message and a clearly defined procedure, an intervening admin can act as "impersonally" as possible and thus try to avoid attracting undeserved rage. -- ◄mendel► 11:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the "policy" proper is only the section in the box. But you knew that. -- ◄mendel► 11:33, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ShoutBot? Detects when edits were made in quick succession and tells you to use Show Preview and/or take a break? Anyway, I don't believe that having this policy around would have helped for any of the so-called "shouting matches" thus far. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We never had the advice to point to in the early stages, nor consensus to issue "cooldown" blocks in the early stages. If we have that now (and I would certainly exercise my discretion to that effect), things may change. Would you rather wait for a test case? Seeing as you don't have any objections to the actual advice and procedures I suggest, why wait? -- ◄mendel► 02:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Is this really needed to be a separate policy ? Is this a recurring problem or do you have examples ? I'm not a big follower of user talk pages, so I maybe I missed a big chunk of wiki drama. But still, I do think that "No Personal Attacks" would be enough. It is still up to other users to ask other users to stop for a moment with "shouting" at each other. Eventually, any discussion will die and results in a long talk page section nobody cares for. I agree with the guidelines, but still...why ?-- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 11:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I want it to be somewhere, and there's no better place; and yes, it is recurring, and asking other users to stop for a moment doesn't always work. Do you need links? -- ◄mendel► 11:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That already qualifies as disruption, which is blockable anyway. I don't think this needs to be a policy, because we already do it. --  Shadowcrest  14:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "Disruption" is one of the worst block reasons ever, because that comes down to complete admin discretion and really ought to be explained (and possibly discussed) every time. Is it written somewhere that we block for disruption, and what it is? -- ◄mendel► 15:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * All blocks are entirely at our discretion anyway, so I missed what you're saying. Yeah, we have a NPA policy, and we cite it as a block reason a lot. But what determines a personal attack? Do we always block for personal attacks? If this is an attempt to codify block behavior then I would expect it is going to fail. Is it written anywhere that we block for trolling? No. But we do it anyway. Disruption is the same way. --  Shadowcrest  18:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think people are objected to this because, historically, policies have been written after they were needed for the first time. This means we know exactly what they need to say in order to make sure whatever the incident was doesn't happen again. This also means that we don't go policy-crazy like GWW and make policies for every circumstance even if they never happen. Usually people only like having new rules placed upon them if there is a visible need, i.e., it's happened before. Perhaps this needs a good example where this policy could have prevented some wikidrama? --Macros 19:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at User talk:Suicidal Tendencie. There've been incidents before, and other users I would now block for this, and some that have self-blocked, as far back as last year. -- ◄mendel► 20:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't block for trolling. I believe that has happened only once, and the sysop who blocked is no longer with us. Feel free to prove me wrong. And I agree that "disruption is the same way", and that's why we don't. -- ◄mendel► 21:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Kindly refrain from speaking in my stead with an all-encompassing "we". [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't support this policy
Because it supports self censorship. Things must be said. Wiki drama can be devastating, but it has to happen. Wiki drama doesn't decide anything, but it does resolve conflict between users. People can be caught up in the cross fire, but wars have to happen, tension builds, and needs to be released. Without Wiki Drama, the tension will build up to exploding points. Instead of wiki drama rages and convos, you will end up with no drama, for about 2 weeks. Then the wiki will alight in an explosion of raw emotion that will devour everything in its path. No matter how much you hate wiki drama, it is necessary for a healthy wiki.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 07:30, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * "Drama has to happen." Agreed. However, we're trying here to channel it: away from discussions about content, onto user talk pages, off the wiki, or moderating it. There is no reason why conflicts have to be resolved explosively and tensions released by abandoning critical thought. This policy does not demand you to censor your emotions, but it demands that you think twice about the form and the place that you exhibit them on the wiki. There are ways to address and resolve conflicts that are more civilised than others, and those we strive for. -- ◄mendel► 10:58, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Per Gigathrash Random Time  11:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."
 * -Niccolo Machiavelli
 * [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Would you ban someone for not addressing/resolving a conflict in a manner you find suitably civil? I'm anticipating a yes. If that is the case, would it be fair to summarize this policy proposal as a way to encourage "proper" behavior through enforcement/strong suggestion? ("don't encourage stupidity"?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)