User:Nog64/Build Talk Archive

Here are the talk pages from all my old builds:

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Testing is encouraged but not required.''

Favored:
 * 1) I am gonna say yes. Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)
 * These are the kind of votes that might make people NOT want to vote you for adminship.

Unfavored:
 * 1) Lemme see. Not enough self-heal, and because of the renewal effect, Kinetic will always be on top and hence vulnerable to stripping. Master has a slow recharge, if anything happens to it you're out of energy for quite some time, not to mention the downtime between its duration and recharge. Wards rely on organized aggro that isn't very easy to find usually in PvE. Asking people all to stay in one place makes them quite vulnerable to area effects, even with ward vs elements up. Guardian is not a very good spell imo. You can do better in Protection Prayers. Lastly, some of what was said of the Prodigy protector (and healer, for that matter) applies here. All the energy is unneeded if you know how to use it, monks can be more effective than this, you're going through a lot of trouble to do what can be done with the primary. here are some comments: "Monk primary has more advantages, build lacks condition removal and most importantly healing" "With Primary Monk you heal for more."Elementalist primary is unneeded - build purpose redundent, it matters more to make efficient of the skills than just spamming, skills like Shield of Absorption and Spirit Bond save a lot of energy that would be spent healing up, and are never needed on more than a couple of targets making the setup unproductive."if you had ever used Reversal of Fortune, you would know that when it triggers on a +5 damage wand hit, it doesn't have a great effect, and for this reason a direct heal is required. ". "You only need 1 monk for the bulk of the 3 campaigns." There, that should cover it.  NightAngel 01:46, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 2) Elementalists should not be healing other members of the party and should be doing damage.--Eloc 03:07, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 3) Same as number:1.Jelmewnema 05:55, 17 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 4) No damage, no ward against foes, if this is near the backline then there is no point spreading your attribs into prot. &mdash; Skuld 06:24, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Usage
Feel free to add this to any relevant PvP. Don't think it'll work in many places, though. I would like it to be HA, but it likes ZB and such.--Nog64Talk 22:43, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Discussion
Two things I wanna fix/see if they're OK with this build.
 * The protection skills work well.
 * There's enough energy.

--Nog64Talk 18:34, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

Hmmmm.... it's an interesting idea, but I think that energy will be an issue. Either take some more energy management (maybe ZB as the elite for a free heal?) or, alternatively, you could think about making this an E/Mo. Personally, I think a good Protection-Ward Hybrid build would use two or three wards and Master of Magic. That way, you would have access to the larger energy pool, and, the Wards, just by virtue of their long recharge would allow you to spam your Protection skills. In terms of the protection aspect, if you are going to use Kinetic Armor, you might drop SoA in favor of Protective Spirit just because it is more useful for your team, and Kinetic Armor should provide you with enough armor. If you had room for it, I would also say that Gift of Health would look nice somewhere here as an actual heal, but where exactly to put it, I am not sure. Also, if you had the energy for it (which Master of Magic would provide), Aegis would provide a VERY nice skill to augment Ward Against Melee. Well.... I think I have given you enough to think about for now. You don't need to go E/Mo, but I think it is your best bet to create an effective hybrid. Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)
 * K, I was thinking that a little after I posted the build, and I left pretty much that build on NightAngel's page.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 21:59, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I think it would work well. Good luck.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)
 * Hope you don't mind... since I contributed to/came up with this particular manifestation of this build, I posted it on my user page as one of my builds. If that bothers you, feel free to leave me a message and I will remove it, but otherwise I would like to keep a record of it.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)

Looking at what I did, it seems much better. You're getting 4 energy for each prot spell BEFORE putting down wards, 8 after.--Nog64Talk 18:22, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

I'm gonna test this in PvP sometime this weekend. Still gotta cap MoM :P.--Nog64Talk 21:02, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Spirit Bond < Protective Spirit for the main skill bar. Aside from that, considering the Variants and the main skill bar, I am ready to vote favored on this. Defiant Elements (talk ~ contribs)

Where is this for? PvE?--Nog64Talk 22:40, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

This might work, but then again, so could the prodigy protector. Hmpf. I'd vote unfavored out of pure undiluted spite. :) Why not, everybody does. :( NightAngel 21:05, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I thought you were better than that NightAngel =). I didn't vote on your build, nor did I have a chance to test it, so I don't know how well it works, but, this honestly does work well, and there is no reason not to favor it, or at least none to unfavor it.  Defiant Elements  (talk ~ contribs)

Hmpf. I thought Nog would be better than that too, but I was wrong eh? He hammers my build then makes a similar one to show how much better he can do. As Borat would say ..."niiiiice". One can only hope Skuld and the rest are consistent and unfavor yours too. A good day to you sir. NightAngel 19:02, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * (Skuld has sworn off the builds section, btw.) [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 19:19, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, he makes a special exception for people he loves, like me. :) Trust me. And he brings some friends too! NightAngel 20:06, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * And the argument for Post No Builds grows... --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   20:13, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

What are "filler rues"? >_> --   19:17, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Runes probably. Vitae / Attunement I would guess. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 19:19, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Rate-a-build
''Please test and vote on. Testing is encouraged but not required.''

Favored:
 * 1) (your vote here)

Unfavored:
 * 1) So many things wrong, just plain terrible. -Warskull 15:07, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * Would you be so kind as to state them in the discussion?--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 16:45, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Solus  [[image:Shield_of_Judgment.jpg|19px]] 20:35, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 2) lOl &mdash;[[Image:BlastThatT.jpg]]Blastedt 20:37, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * 3) Ok I'll list one thing that's wrong with this build since you didn't really get any reasons as to why this is bad. Elementalists in GvG are normally multi-utility characters such as flag running and support healing, or blind spamming, spike assisting and support healing all at the same time.  KD's and snares are also pretty standard in GvG, but that's all this build does.  Blurred vision is bad because you can't spam it like blind even if it's AoE, and you can't assist in spikes because your damage ouput is low. just look at this one .  Healing and snare in the same build, and this one  that has spike assist and healing too. That is just one of the reasons why this is bad. --Lania Elderfire[[Image:Pinkribbonsig.gif|My Talk]] 10:42, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Discussion
Why Gale if your Elite's a KD? I'd swap it for Enervating Charge or something alike. Overal, seems like a decent build.--Rickyvantof 09:36, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Gale's in case of hex removal and the like, as Gust only works if the for is under a water hex. I was conflicted with either that or Windborne Speed in the bar.--Nog64 17:57, 13 February 2007 (CST)

No rez = unfavoured. I give ya 2 hours to change build to have rez, or Im putting disfavoured, since even assassins have Ressurection Signet in builds. - Abedeus 10:26, 15 February 2007 (CST)

I think adding blurred vision insetead of blinding flash, adding lightning javalin and switching air atune for water atune is better.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   20:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Why Javelin?--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 20:59, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Interrupt attacks from pesky attackers. Especially chainers. ie. Hammer spikes, assasins. I dont think chilling winds is needed because hexes dont last long in high PvP anyways. Easier to recast, you do have an atune. You cant just be doing hex and KD, this build has to do a little more than that to pull its weight in a team. You have to do more than hex a few times then casting gust. Lightning javalin will help reduce spike damage as i said by interupting chains. Its very spamable.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   21:57, 22 February 2007 (CST)

No one gave any reasons....--Nog64Talk 22:03, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * Which points out everything Im against in the voting process. Its in the unfavored section so it was tested but does anyone have an idea how it was unfavored? I mean John Doe player comes looking for a build, he is new to the game and doesnt have much knowledge on the game sees this and says "Wow its bad okay why is it bad?" takes and look and sees what a slight discussion and people who found it unfavored and yet on one can inform him as to why its bad. This makes little sense, I thought the wiki exist to inform people on information yet there is nothing to inform people on postive or negative here but the fact that its unfavored means that there should be something negative about the build but its not here.

Ok, i reverted it. But I feel the reasons they voted against were that it does not specify how to use this in it's arena, whether is pvp, pve, HA, GvG etc. Try talking about how this build can be effective in doing its job ie. KD kiters, interrupt attack chains. Talk about what its main role is.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   15:39, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well, I don't care about reversion, I just want reasons. Also, I did put where to use it when this originally went to untested.--Nog64Talk [[Image:Word_of_Healing.jpg|19px]] 15:50, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * Okay Hyprodimus that is a fair (albeit sorta strange) reason but then the invariable question pops up: They could say this in there votes because....? What honest purpse does a vote serve if no reason is given (okay okay this is more or less about voting practice here but is point) you tell the author or browser nothing so what is the point?

Yes the whole point of a wiki is so that people can compare good to the bad. If someone has a similar idea, they want to know whether its worth running, spending cash for skills, making a new char, buying a new wep for the build etc. It saves them a lot of time if they see builds with the same concept already been tested. Without reasons, this wiki has no purpose, (and thats what Skuld was working ####### fixing, not taking sides, just stating what was happening.) At the top it doesnt say that you have to test, but atleast give reasons. Its just as bad as sockpuppeting.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   16:03, 25 February 2007 (CST)