User talk:Entropy/sabway

Sabway is great fun to use in tandem with 2 Rt/N MM bombers. Sure, Olias kills himself for ~40% with BotM, but stuff dies so insanely fast <3 Or take 4 plain MMs, mainly with Fiends. Yaay. --- -- (s)talkpage  12:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand how you get enough bodies for that sort of thing. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Give Olias Vengeance. I've cleared HotS with and without sabway, never taking more than 2 healers, which is why your 3-monk setup the other week was so amusing to me. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:58, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Why Vengeance...? Also, Entropy; Jagged Bones helps keep minions alive, and rolling groups within mere seconds creates more than enough bodies :P
 * I never take more than 2 Monks unless I don't take any form of defense besides that (I usually have wards or an Aegis somewhere). Or if I go into SoO. 2 Hench Monks and 3 Smite Heroes makes stuff explode.
 * On the article: I never get any deaths whatsoever on the Fiery Gauntlet part... Just stand in front of the golem so it cannot move when you want to take down a hostile golem. And when you need to walk along the path, just inch forward, keeping yourself just in front of the golem with enough space to walk. Sure, it isn't fast, but nothing will die unless you don't take any Monks.
 * When you know you're facing Hexes, be sure to change some skills around so you have some Hex Removal. Sabway is really easy to alter to whatever you deem necessary (I always forget how to spell that properly >.>").
 * I found "It only took two Saurus before the gate broke" very amusing. Put SoA or SH on it and it cannot possibly die. This also reinforces my point below;
 * On your old setup: I suggest taking some prot over 3 Healers. RoF is the most overpowered spell ever (heals for 80, and negates 80 damage. 160 total. Gfg, WoH), RC is a great combination of Prot and Heal, Shielding Hands and SoA work wonders when someone is trained by some melees, or whittled away by Rangers. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]--  (s)talkpage  09:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * @Felix - Protective Bond makes HotS easy. Monk is just the easiest profession for using it since they will lose the least energy, and have Blessed Signet too. Of course since they are then specced into prot, it's handy to have another hiiler around, which makes 3 Monks. (though it is probably not even necessary, that dungeon is so easy) I take BiP/BR also just in case to make sure Prot Bond never fails. That's my guaranteed win for HotS. I don't understand why Vengeance is relevant to anything.
 * @Viper - Jagged Bones only gives you an additional ~2 minions at most with its current recharge, and Bone Minions are...weak. Barbs and Mark of Pain are conditional and I always find it hard to use except with Bone Fiends, who tend to attack same target since they clump. I know that Heroes are infinitely better at Death Nova'ing minions, but still. I don't understand why it works. Perhaps the AI knows the secret to directing minions.
 * For the fiery gauntlet, when I stand in fromt of the golem, it starts moving left or right and then keeps going. Even when I try to flag the whole party in front, that only stops it temporarily. Sometimes when I do this, the circle keeps moving too, or just stops, and that causes major problems of course. I've only ever gotten through the gauntlet with no deaths with luck. It's almost always the melee hench or the healers who die; they either run ahead or lag behind.
 * I wanted to test Sabway without making any modifications to the build, to see how it stacked up and what its weaknesses are. I probably could have swapped some of the rez for Remove Hex, as I almost never used them.
 * I'm not a Monk, and I didn't take Lina for Assault on the Stronghold (unnecessary), so I didn't have room for SoA or SH on anyone. And I have used those skills before. They help a lot, but by no means are they a 100% guarantee against death. It really depends on timing. If the Saurus can get past the Stalkers on the gate without dying, it's usually safe. So you have to get lucky with the timing of the devourer sieges. (If the Saurus could be arsed to cast Stoneflesh Aura, that would make the mission cake)
 * Why bother with prot? I've never lost with 3 healers. Prot doesn't affect multiple party members, either, and I am taking advantage of constant Burning with Words of Comfort. While you can cast a healing spell on same target for stacking effect, if heroes decide to simultaneously cast RoF on same target then you effectively waste two of them (besides DF bonus, but you get that with heal spell too). And they tend to do that a lot when they all have the same bar. RC is a total waste in A Time for Heroes since heroes will just spam it repetitively as you are always Burning. Which makes it a powerful heal ofc, but if that's all they do they are just wasting their energy, especially since Heroes use RC as condition removal rather than heal. Shielding Hands and SoA are fairly useless too, since all of The Great Destroyer's attacks hit multiple people, except his melee attack but that's not worth taking a defense against. There are like one Ranger or Melee per run of the mission, unless you are stupid and keep killing the minions, which respawn infinitely.
 * Or maybe I am confused and you are talking about Heart of the Shiverpeaks. I blame Felix for that. Like I said, I take two Prot monk for Protective Bond, and a BiP to make sure they never lose bonds. The rest of their bars I load with standard prot skill; one gets RC, other gets SoR or SoD, etc. Because I don't like to take chances, I also take Mhenlo along for some raw heals. (hence "three monks") You hardly need any damage output at all, since you can kill Cyndr with lifesteal, and keg running is not a threat when all his attacks hit for pansy damage. And the other foes in the dungeon are laughable.
 * If it was something else you are referencing, I am confused, as typically I always take one prot and one heal monk for all other situations. HB, RC, blah blah. In Nightfall I can swap for Khim because she has Aegis, but then I also try to take a BiP since she runs out of energy quick due to ZB. In Prophecies, Lina is also good with SoR and Aegis, but she sadly has no condition removal. Thus I take FF on the BiP. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:11, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Let heroes use Barbs and MoP; they do just fine. Jagged indeed only saves a few minions, but that means for each minion saved, one less body needed, thus easier time keeping up 20+ (6-7 from Rt/Ns and 7-9 from N/x) minions. And getting 20 bodies isn't hard at all.
 * Note: Prots and Prot Monks and Prot Skills may or may not be named the same in the following text.
 * Why bother with prot, you ask? Because 1 prot and 1 heal equates to 3 heals. 2 prots equals a dead party, because you're going to lack redbarring. To "I've never lost with 3 healers": I've never lost with one prot and one healer. Oh, and Aegis is Earshot range (just a slightly offtopic fact :P ).
 * Sure, the Great Chicken attacks multiple targets, but that Healer bar has 2 party heals, and the rest (which would probably be used most often, since the healers are still heroes) is single target. Just like most Prots. A Prot bar usually has room for Divine Healing/Hevaen's, thus can also take a Party heal, if you really want to. PS completely rapes the GD's newest skill-of-which-I-forgot-the-name. When it's target happens to be Enchanted, a heal won't save him from 700 Fire damage, eh?
 * Even if there's only one Melee or a Ranger, it's nice to negate half of it's damage for 5 Energy, and giving a minor heal to the targetted person.
 * I've never had 2 heroes casting RoF on the same target; I don't take dupe enchantments, unless it's PS or Aegis (which would be on the one prot, and a support (ele, nec). I don't see how you can get 2 RoFs, unless you run 2prot/1heal for whatever reason? O_o" Overkill, and ineffective, for reasons mentioned already. You shouldn't give prots identical bar, or similar bars, for that matter. Diversity is key, unless you want to roll general PvE with SH, in which case all you need is E/Mes with SH and CoF.
 * What I don't get when you're talking about HotS is why you take Protective Bond. I never needed it; flagging heroes apart a bit is more than enough, and takes almost as long as saying "Worm". If there's anything easy in that dungeon, it's Cyndr, and his Pyroclastic Shot. hold W+E, when he fires, switch to W+Q. Dodging wins PvE. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess I should just leave it to Heroes. I still want to learn how to do it effectively with a human, though. Because Death Nova targetning is nearly impossible, it's infeasible for me to replace that part of the Sabway, but I could do the Curses part if I could only learn how to match targeting with the H/H AI.
 * What's that about Aegis? Anyway, I'll say again that you don't need prot. I have serious doubts that Flame Jet even exists because in all the times I have fought The Great Burning Chicken, I have never seen it. Thus it has never been a problem for me. (Or does he only use it in HM?)
 * The hiiler has two party heals and one AoE heal, and sometimes I take Heal Area instead of Heal Party; Heroes love to spam that. They will use Signets before anything else, dunno about other spells but I know they use all of them at some point or other. It works, somehow. Even though it looks horrible on paper. Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight are bad without UA, and even then they have such long recharge that they may not be ready when you really need them after a Searing Breath+Enraged Blast spike or such.
 * You said to take "some prot", which I assume meant 2-3 prot since "some" is multiple. Thus dupe enchants. In other PvE, Heroes do okay with dupe bars (Aegis chain ftw). But in this particular mission they tend to all cast same heal on same targets at same time, because the burning causes identical damage to everyone. Or something like that. I just know this is only place where I reliably see (for example) three Sig of Devo cast on me at same time.
 * H/H fail at scatter, and when I try to flag everyone apart, they end up dying anyway. Cyndr will use Pyroclastic Shot for awhile, but eventually he gets "Ma-a-a--a-ad" and starts auto-attacking the monks. This kills them because it does BZRKL damage as well as KD on crit (which is most attacks). Mhenlo and Lina also fail badly and can't outheal when four members of the party (the hench) are being smacked with Pyroclastic Shot. If I take my own Monks they last bit longer but still.
 * Also, when trying to run kegs, you can only dodge Pyroclastic Shot at far range. As you get closer it gets harder and harder. If he autoattacks you, then you are probably getting KD, and then you can't dodge the next Pyroclastic Shot and you lose the keg. Also, without Prot Spirit, you're going to die from strong attacks + Flame Burst for WTF damage and stuff. Lina has it, yes, but Cyndr of course won't be attacking just you, etc... And I never take PS on my Heroes without a BiP because that + Aegis + SoR/SoD is too much energy. Or even with RC, since that gets spammed.
 * This is why I like to use Prot Bond. You can get away with two prots in HotS since the monster groups are so wimpy; the "redbarring" is negligible. It gives you a guaranteed win against Cyndr. I don't see what the problem is.
 * Btw, I don't take Cry anymore, I like Mark of Rodgort. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Vengeance is corpse renewal. Recycle a sac'er into 30 minions. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh. But then my saccer would have 15% DP. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)