GuildWiki talk:Builds wipe

Consensus
I think it's absolutely hilarious that so many common sense proposals for minor changes elsewhere get stomped on as the community has not reached a "consensus", yet all it takes is for one wiki grandee to say "It is clear to me -- and judging from the poll I posted above, most of the older community members -- that the builds section is simply not worth keeping in its current form" and the whole lot gets done away with. I've not got a problem with a site being run by administrators and older community members - they know what they're doing and have the sites best wishes at heart. What I hate is the pretence of "community decisions" and "consensus" when it's clearly nothing of the sort. Say it how it is guys, you're not making any friends by dangling toys down to the proles only to take them away when they start getting played with. It's all well and good saying you welcome the development of new ideas post-wipe, but considering the way the wipe has been imposed by these "older community members" in the first place I see no reason to believe that any policy - no matter how good - will be accepted by them if it conflicts with their world view. --NieA7 06:42, 20 March 2007 (CDT) I don't like how this build wipe has been proposed and actioned, as the reason given of "It is clear to me -- and judging from the poll I posted above, most of the older community members -- that the builds section is simply not worth keeping in its current form" seems to imply that older members have an intrinsically more important voice when matters such as this are discussed. That flies in the face of general consensus, which seems to be what is continually preached as the golden rule. With that comment from the admin who is taking charge of this situation in mind, I see no reason to think that any future policy will be accepted if it conflicts with the world view of these "older members", regardless of how many newer members support it. --NieA7 07:30, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Look at Template:Tested-build. "This build has been successfully vetted by the GuildWiki community." The community being 3 people in most cases. If you're going to argue about consensus in one place, prepare to do it in all. I don't remember you complaining about that template saying "community" when it referred to 3 people. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 06:46, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Then you didn't look hard enough, I've never been fond of the vetting system or the approved template and I agree that they need to be altered. Besides, altering the wording on a template is rather less of a change than the deletion of an entire section. --NieA7 06:48, 20 March 2007 (CDT)


 * We are not pretending consensus and user base acceptance here, atleast I'm not. If this article gives that impression, I'll need to rewirte it a bit.
 * I suggest everyone to take a look at GuildWiki talk:No Original Builds and continue the discussion there to get to a consensus on the new policy proposal. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 06:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It's not here I'm talking about so much as the entire wiki, where everything is supposed to be done by consensus. In practice this seems to boil down to very small groups, the argument being won by the person who can type the longest. What irritates me most is the poll - opinion is clearly hugely divided, yet the fact that "older members" voted to axe it swung the decision. Somehow that really rankles. --NieA7 06:57, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The sweep is not based on consensus or the poll. It is based on 2 admins using the GW:ADMIN to do what they want, trying to benefit the wiki with their actions. Ofcourse we do not want to act against the opinnions of most of the users, that would be a political suicide. However, the build policy discussion has waded back and forth for months now so some action needs to be taken. After the sweep and temporary post no builds rule people are more likely to agree on a working policy, especially as we give a month time to discuss before the sweep. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 07:15, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Fair enough, but then why have a poll in the first place - why not just use GW:ADMIN straight away (poll and decision are only a few days apart - the builds mess has been going on for months but this has happened relatively quickly)? If we want the views of most of the users (as opposed to editors) wouldn't it be better to have a template warning of potential deletion pending discussion/binding vote/convincing of the admins (etc etc) that most users want to keep the builds? Not that I imagine most of them would comment of course, but if there's any concern about going against the wishes of most users then those users should be given a chance to say so (I bet most casual browsers of the site never look at any of the policy or talk pages, leaving them oblivious to all this discussion). --NieA7 07:24, 20 March 2007 (CDT)