Talk:Invincible Monk

Alright, so I made an attempt at cleaning it up. Could somebody take a look and yell at me? Please? ;) - Lunarbunny 13:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Putting in the list of skills, with attribute levels would be great. --Xeeron 14:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The problem is, the Invincible Monk is a very general build concept, not a specific build. The only thing really required is Protective Spirit, and variations of invincimonk can use between 6~16 ranks of Protection Prayers.  Likewise for healing, some people use +4 mending (13 healing prayers) with watchfulspirit, some go with +3 mending and breeze, and some people only use breeze.  While most of them use smite for damage, there are variations that use the secondary profession instead.      There are way too many variations.-PanSola 05:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I added a lot of detail to the article, including information on what skill choices need to be made and discussion of choosing among them. -HgFalling 12:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That rewrite was lovely (-: -PanSola 12:26, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this is clearly not a stub anymore, I'll take Hg's and PanSola's comments as vouching =) --Xeeron 10:11, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

why doesn't this list under Builds? --Honorable Sarah 17:33 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It does. From the Main Page go ->Builds->PvE Builds->Farming Builds. --Gares Redstorm 01:43, 15 March 2006 (CST)

8hp monks
Does anyone play 8hp Mo/Me here? &mdash; Skuld  14:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Skuld, I do not, but I have been training my self in this 55-monk build that I found here and on GW Guru forums. That experience has gotten me to thinking along the lines that a 55-hp "type" Mesmer/Monk might be interesting to investigate. Is Mes/Mo feasible, or does it have to be Monk primary for the healing & protection superior runes and high attribute levels? Queen of Spades 15:31, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You don't need that much Healing/Protection for the Build to work properly (of course, the more the better), more important is a high attribute for damage dealing. Mes/Mo is very feasible, indeed. You can use Illusionary Weaponry for example. Haven't heared about a 8hp build yet, though. --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 16:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * An 8 HP build would be disaster in front of even mild degen.. Immolate would kill the monk instantly. He'd have to have Healing Breeze on all the time. --Karlos 02:03, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have designed a new type of invincimonk, the likes of which have never before been seen. It is also incredibly cheap. The equipment list is: 1 superior rune, 2 major runes, 1 Vitae rune, and the -50hp cesta. This leaves the monk on 7 health. 'Huh?' I hear you say. 'How do you get 7 health?' The answer is a 60% DP. I use a necro with it, and because I have little energy because of DP, I use Blood Renewal for health regen. It costs only 5 energy and with a +5 health regen, your damage is negligible (i can't tell that i am damaged, apart from the yellow numbers). The DP means not many spells can be used, so I mainly use a weapon and Blood Pact for farming. Unless you have a reser, it will NOT work in UW or FoW, though. Also, if you get too much XP working off DP, you can wear another Major Rune, to bring your HP back down. --Mosrael The Waker 05:57, 21 December 2006 (CST)


 * Sounds EXTEMELY limited in its use. Nice idea though - maybe more sup runes and less dp? And what happens as you work off your DP? --Armond Warblade (talk) 11:38, 22 December 2006 (CST)


 * Oh, it is limited, but not EXTREMELY limited. I use it to farm,and as it works off my DP, i eventually become a 55 necro anyway. The reason i use DP is cos i cant afford sup runes. --Mosrael The Waker 17:34, 7 January 2007 (CST)


 * I would rather a build with sup runes that I can use to farm, myself. --Armond Warblade (talk) 16:35, 30 December 2006 (CST)


 * I guess this is off the topic of this entry in the wiki, but, I wasn't referring to an 8 hp Mes/Monk in my question above, just the idea of reduced hp Mes/Mo in general. The reason I got to thinking about it was that I have read of a 55 hp Necro build teaming with the "standard" SS/SV Necro/Mes to duo in UW. So if Monk/* can be 55 and Necro/Monk, too, then why not Mesmer/Monk? If you know of URLs that discuss any builds like that, I would be interested. Queen of Spades 10:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Look in guildwarsguru builds forums, there is an E/Mo underworld solo using obsidian flesh, and N/Mo and Me/Mo griffon builds using Spiteful Spirit and Energy Surge :) (Can't post the exact links, GWG seems to be down) &mdash; Skuld  05:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like to make a note here about the difference between a possible build and a good build. There are infinite possibilities for builds that can "solo" the Uw probably. But there are VERY few good ones. A build relying on Obsidian Flesh will be extremely slow in killing the aatxe. It's a fact of life, the aatxe have fast natural regeneration that takes place even as they are fighting. They also have high resistence to elemental damage. the only spell that would hurt them is Obsidian flame and that causes exhaustion and takes 2 seconds to cast (savage slash). Sine the build is E/Mo, that means there is no Mantra of Resolve. That means hours of agonizingly trying to get your spells through assuming you got the staying alive part right.
 * My point is, there are very real considerations relating to the designated explorable area that need to be explored before a build on paper is actually considered viable. I have met these noobish necros who tell 55 monks who go as Mo/Me that they cn't be real 55 monks cause a real 55 monk is Mo/W. Anyone who has done UW farming for a serious amount of time as a 55 monk and tried both will tell you that Mo/Me is WAAAAY easier than Mo/W which has many pitfalls and requires a lot of craftiness. --Karlos 15:14, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Karlos, can you post a link or two to Mo/Mes UW build? I am assuming you are talking of a build that duos UW with an SS/SV Necro. I have been practicing my 55hp Mo/War in the desert, first vs Hydras in Skyward Reach, then vs griffons & minos in Prophet's Path. My idea has been to prep for the Mo/War role in dualing UW with a necro. Would like to see why a Mo/Mes would be easier or better. Thx. --Queen of Spades 21:42, 14 February 2006 (CST)


 * I believe it's all about the Mantra of Resolve. In UW, a lot of the warrior monsters have interrupts, IIRC. 130.58 22:49, 14 February 2006 (CST)

I play a 55 hp me/mo with the following skills.

Damage: Illusionary Weaponry. Helping against big groups: Sympathetic Visage Healing: Mending, Healing Breeze Damage prevention: Protective Spirit Energy Regen: Essence Bond, Balthazar's Spirit

And then I carry Power drain to interrupt anything that rends enchantments. This build needs a fairly good enchant mod on a sword or axe to be worth anything, but can farm amazingly.

this is an extremely old post guys, get your own subheading &mdash; Skuld 16:36, 30 December 2006 (CST)


 * ive heard of the 8 hp build, but i only know one person that uses it and he wont tell me the build :(

Balthasar's Aura?
Is mentioned in the Reducing Health section as a primary skill, but in Damage Dealing it is "rarely used." Clear up this discrepancy? Queen of Spades 15:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Can we assume that since the nerfing of the AI to recognize AoE spells, that Balth's Aura is no longer prevalent in the Invincimonk build? If so, it should be removed from the build... --Queen of Spades 21:49, 14 February 2006 (CST)


 * Balthazar's Aura has no use in anything any more :( &mdash; Skuld  23:15, 14 February 2006 (CST)
 * It's useful to get mobs to run away instead of keep on attacking you? -PanSola 23:19, 14 February 2006 (CST)
 * It would be useful against Hydras if your Protective Spirit had been interrupted by Meteor and you need one more second to reload. It would cause them to run away, giving you time to reload and cast it again. --Mosrael The Waker 12:14, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Symbol of Wrath: 5 energy > 25 &mdash; Skuld  00:23, 15 February 2006 (CST)

Zealot's fire
After some test it seems that as long as you don't use spells too often Zealot's fire doesn't break aggro. I.e. if you cast a spell each 2s monsters stay close to you but if you spam divine boon and reversal of fortune mobs will run away. Maybe area dmg are dmg over time like 70dmg/s but if the time is too long it seems to not take effect anymore. Neck 20:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Single hit AoEs like Zealot's Fire (and Rodgort's Invocation and Fireball) do not trigger the AoE AI unless they are done in immediate succession. So, if you queue Fireball while Rodgort's is casting, then when Fireball hits (after Rodgort's) it will cause the monsters to scramble. If you just wait for a fraction of a second then cast it, nothing will happen. Likewise, if you keep spamming spells, then Zealot's will cause them to scramble. If you leave a tiny fraction of time in between theb they won't. --Karlos 18:27, 14 February 2006 (CST)


 * This can be observed well with rangers and Ignite Arrows; firing slowly doesn't scatter them, increasing the RoF does. It would be nice to know what the breakpoint is for scattering, perhaps testing with the various bows with and without Tiger's Fury can pinpoint the shift?--Epinephrine 23:29, 14 February 2006 (CST)


 * It is more than likely 1 or less seconds after the previous hit. Because most AOE damage hits 'every second'.  Though I have tested it to be about 2 or less seconds (right after the update) with Zealots Fire.  So if you cast spells just over 2 seconds apart then it shouldn't break aggro.  Then again, my testing might be wrong or I could have forgotten something since then ... that tends to happen a lot with me. | Chuiu 10:48, 21 February 2006 (CST)

Second death
"Additionally, if the monk accumulates too much Death Penalty, he will die immediately upon being resurrected." Who wrote that? You'll find you come back with 1hp ;) You'll die from anything that hits you, but not upon being ressurected &mdash; Skuld  03:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I had an invincimonk on Abbadon's Mouth once. He died. He got rezzed (NO enemies were around, we had cleared the vicinity). Over and over. He kept dying (*rez* *splat*) because of said causes. I couldn't figure out WTF was going on until somebody told me that it's what happens to invincimonks.
 * Oh, and I have seen it with an allied guild...went to the old underworld with 2 of them as invincimonks. We had a problem when they died. Had to use Vengeance to let them take off some stuff so that we could rez them properly. &mdash; Lunarbunny 03:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Were they used -1 HP regen items? Shandy 03:47, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I explained it in the article. A 55 monk dying will not be rezzed by the conventional Rebirth or Restore Life. And as Lunarbunny explained they will just drop dead right away. --Karlos 05:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh I got the wrong end of the stick, I was refering to res shrines =p &mdash; Skuld  06:45, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * remove the grim cesta, that will help you get rid op the 1 health problem and you'll have 33 health then, whats also is manageble.
 * Angrow Galriko 9:50 17 Februari 2006
 * I suppose that if ranger's nature ritual Fertil Season is active, adds +50...290 health, then the 55 would be resurrectable. Isn't?--mariano 09:55, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Protect the article (temporarily)?
In just the last 24 hours this article has been blanked at least twice by anonymous IPs. Is it too early to overreact and protect the article from anonymous or non-admin edits? Does Mediawiki even allow that? &mdash; Stabber 14:10, 23 February 2006 (CST)
 * AFAIK, the only way to protect it is to make it like the Main Page or Unique items list where only an admin can edit it. Right now with it only happening twice, I'm not going to protect it.  That doesn't mean it won't be protected in the future, I just don't feel that twice in one day is enough to warrent it yet.  --Rainith 14:13, 23 February 2006 (CST)
 * On wikipedia they can semi-protect articles so that logging in is required to edit the article in question. Shandy 18:27, 23 February 2006 (CST)

Revive and Ressurect Addition
A anonymous user added that these 2 revive skills when used 2-5 times will revive a 55 monk with a 15%DP (or 1Hp monk). This is false for the record. A FoW group I was in ended up with a 55 Monk and she died. Everyone tried to ressurct her for sometime using rebirth and restore life. After about 10 or so times, we had to give up and left her there till she left the game. Shandy reverted the article and removed the addition. --Gares Redstorm 20:35, 7 March 2006 (CST)

ok well i have a lvl 16mo/mes and i really want to make it an invinci monk but i have no clue on what skills and attribute points to make it...i was thinkin about changin 2nd pro to a warrior for bonettis defence but i dont know yet so it would be extremely helpful if u could post a complete list of skills and attribute points....thank you &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by  67.38.153.48 (talk &bull; contribs) some time on March 13th.


 * Read the article. Slowly. --Karlos 09:48, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Move article
I think this should be moved back to Invincible Monk, it's not a build. but a guide. Mo/any is for builds. &mdash; Skuld  21:22, 20 March 2006 (CST)


 * Skuld has a point. --Xeeron 04:18, 21 March 2006 (CST)


 * I agree. This is a concept article, not an actual build. We need a build page for UW Mo/W's ad Mo/Me's and other solo-monks. --Karlos 07:44, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Mantra of Resolve
Does anyone really use Mantra of Resolve against Mountain Trolls? The only things I get interrupted with once in a while are Blessed Signet (doesn't really hurt as there's usually enough energy to constantly re-cast Protective Spirit) and Healing Breeze (doesn't really hurt either, because when it expires, most trolls are nearly dead anyway and the few remaining spikes can be coverd by re-casting Protective Spirit and some points in Divine Favor to fill up the 55 HP). This would apply to Bladed Aatxe even more, because they don't even use Disrupting cChop (which disables the skill interrupted for 20 seconds) but Savage Slash. --Si Tacuisses 15:57, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * If you're a 55 Mo/Me in the UW without the refuge of Bonetti's Defense, then Mantra of Resolve is your friend. I never leave home without it. :) The Grasping Darknesses would abuse you, and if you like to gather big groups of cows, then yes, even Savage Slash would own you. It can't interrupt Prot Spirit (unless you are REALLY unlucky), but with Bleeding, Mending is negated. So, if you pile up 5 cows on you and they nail your Breeze, they can kill you if each lands 2 hits, i.e. 3 seconds. --Karlos 16:03, 28 March 2006 (CST)

Article name - article pre-dates current naming guidelines
So, should this article be renamed to "Mo/W Invincible Monk" and added to a build category; or just add a reference on it over to the Team - 55/SS FoW build? --- Barek (talk &bull; contribs) - 15:22, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

Factions
Is it possible to do the Invincimonk with a factions character?


 * Most important healing spells are core, but it seems that most, if not all, of the usual energy management spells are from Prophecies. look for replacements in the Factions skills. the off-hand item you can just buy from Tyrian characters. good luck. Foo 07:03, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

Who needs an SS necro..
Just found this in my screenshots folder, the SS build was a blessing :p



&mdash; Skuld  18:32, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

Factions and the Spirit Bond Farming Monk
The emergence of the Spirit Bond monk and its viability to many of the solo farming situations of the original 55hp Monk really makes this article outdated. This article is alone in the Farming Guides, and a 55hp Monk is, IMO, more difficult for beginning players to use because of the high-ish cost of Superior Monk runes nowadays, not to mention the need for the -50 focus item. So, I'm doing a bit of editing to point these facts out, and provide a link to the Spirit Bond monk article.

Smite crawler's smite hex example
Under "The Build", it gives an example of using SV/AV for Smites to prevent them from using Smite Hex. This artile is mostly about a SOLO 55, however, not a 55/SS UW team. Smite Hex is not, in and of itself, dangerous to a 55. Should this be changed, and if so, to what? Easiest thing to do would be to put up another, more dangerous skill the smites have. Here's the list (ripped from the Smite Crawler page):



My thought is Shield of Judgment, unless anyone can find a more dangerous skill. Will change in a couple days if noone disagrees. --Armond Warblade (talk) 12:31, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Large rehaul
* wipes forehead* Finally finished a rehaul of the page for quality. Took two goes because the first time I was only editing "The Build". Feel free to revert if you feel like it. Praise (and cookies?) accepted gratefully. Unfortunately, I noticed that I still had the "This is a minor edit" box checked after hitting submit. My apologies... >.< --Armond Warblade (talk) 13:26, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Spirit Bond?
Was browsing around the Mo/any Spirit Bonder and was wondering... What if we replaced Healing Breeze and Mending for Spirit Bond? Would certainly free up another slot for something like Zealot's Fire... I haven't actually tested it yet, but will do so in a few hours. If it works, I'll add it to the article. --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:16, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Dead build?
55 no longer aggro due to 10-25 update:

''   * Monsters no longer run from AoE damage when they are very healthy, or when they think they’re very close to killing their opponent. * Melee monsters are more intelligent about keeping themselves spread out, so that they don’t put themselves into a position where they’re highly susceptible to AoE attacks.''

Also can anyone confirm that a X number of hits removes an enchant? --Chris 23:42, 25 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Dead. Will place archive notice. The 55 himself isn't dead, though. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:00, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Is it still dead?


 * There's a bug in the monsters running away. If farming trolls, for example, they run away out of your aggro circle, stay there and don't move again. Bakuru 12:37, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * They come back and will eventually kill themselves. The AI changes just slowed it down incredibly. This is still a very important part of dual builds though.  -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 13:52, 8 December 2006 (CST)

replacement for the loss of spirit bond.
for all who were hit hard by the loss of spirit bond i urge you to try the new SOA monk in the untested builds. this build could fill the void left in peoples hearts from spirit bond

Split into three sections?
There's really three types of invincimonk - the standard health regen one, the "heal damage instantly" one (aka 600 monk, now RIP spirit bond), and the new Shield of Absorption 55 - a complete damage preventor. Should all three of these have their own discussion within the article? Will change in a few days if no objections. --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:26, 19 November 2006 (CST)

Earth spells
Hasn't anyone thought of using Earth Armor Spells such as Kinetic Armor and Armor of Earth rather than using Protective Spirit on a SOA monk? I have a good Invincible Monk build that does just that:
 * or *
 * or *

Now I know there isn't an elite, But Thats what u can replace something with.

--Spencerbug91 {{ProfessionIcon|Monk} Spencerbug91|talk]]) 9 December 2006 (CST)
 * Check out Template:Scalable_skill_bar. A neat way of formatting builds. Example below. (all off topic, I don't have opinions on 55 builds because I use them for very specific farming tasks). This actually belongs on your talk page, but I didn't want to be the one to create it for you. :) -- [[Image:Ranger-icon-small.png|25px]]Oblio (talk) 17:35, 10 December 2006 (CST)


 * I suppose you could use them... What's the point, though, if you've already got 55 hp and SoA is reducing everything to 0 anyway? Or if you've got more than 55 hp... Well, I honestly don't see where the offense is going to come from. Anything with around four regen or half a monk (read: rit/paragon) nearby will outheal stone daggers. If you really think it can solo stuff, though, throw it on a build page and we can add it here after it's been vetted. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2006 (CST)

I just read that Stoneflesh is working again on other builds, so I re-added it. I'm not posting the E/Mo 330 variant because this page is strictly MONK ONLY. I think users can figure out ele/mo will work just as well. There was also a mention of a either deleted or non existant build so I got rid of that too.--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   01:48, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Unnatural Signet
I'm pretty sure that Prot Spirit does mitigate damage done by this signet, and possibly others, but I don't have a screenshot. Tycn 00:32, 1 February 2007 (CST)

I don't have a scrrenie yet, but i farm jade brotherhood a lot, and the mezzies aren't tearing me apart limb from limb. :P 76.19.223.231 17:43, 23 February 2007 (CST)

Optimal HP
Another thing to note is that 15 is the optimal operating health for this type of invincimonk. This is because the character will only take 1 damage per attack and thus must take 15 (near-)simultaneous attacks to die. 15 hp is very difficult to attain, however. An easier choice is to run with 13 hp by dying once and equipping any -20 hp offhand (such as the one obtained from the Poor Tenant quest in pre-searing Ascalon). 15 health is obtainable by having 24% DP and a -20 health focus equipped.

I pulled that quote from the space just above Instant healing. 19 hp will reduce the damage to 1 point with protective spirit. Can somebody else check this? I would also like to point out that shielding hands seems to reduce damage after protective spirit contrary to what I have found others say elsewhere. If nobody else can verify either of these things I will try to remember to get a screenie of it sometime in the next week. Kelvin Greyheart 13:49, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Truly Invincible Monk
If you had Blessed Aura, 20% enchant weapon, and Shielding Hands + Healing Hands, their recharges cover each other and you can never take damage. On that build, I would also take mending touch and purge conditions to get rid of degen conditions like poison, disease, and fire. This type could take on any mob numbers in UW if it has a partner with hex removal and damageing stuff (smite/hex remove monk). Havent tested yet, dont even know if it would work, thought it up last night. Could someone test? If it works, we just got a super awesome 2-man.

Anyone answering? Rargh. Uberleet 15:38, 10 March 2007 (CST)

Tried it against hydras in the Crystal Desert worked quite well   please try in other places to confirm

Actually, you can do it better without all the crap. Me/Mo Mantra of Recovery PS Shield of Absorption. easy. Caramel Ni 16:12, 10 March 2007 (CST)

Check out Build:Mo/E_Invincimonk_180, I designed it for RA and have been using it most of the time since Shielding Hands and Shield of Regeneration got buffed. But nearly no one believes me that it works well, oh well I'm not the one who's missing out. --GodofJur 16:35, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Related Builds
I've removed the 55 N/Mo from the Invincible Monk page because clearly it is not. --Warwulf 00:25, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Spirit Bond DIscussion
Even though Spirit Bond got nerfed, it is unfair to say that SB based builds are no longer feasible. Take the Dual UW Smite builds we have that are successfully vetted. Look at the two man rotscale, etc. My point is that there builds, contrary to the article, that use this skill and it has not fallen into disuse. I'm going to edit the article to reflect this. --Warwulf 17:01, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Going to delete Vandalism
Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:30, 14 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Going to rewrite a little bit. Doesn't quite cover all of Invinci-Monking... (Editing first section) Readem (talk *contribs ) 23:32, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

New ultimate weapon?
How about a weapon with the following stats:
 * Type: Spear
 * Spearhead: Furious (10% chance double adrenalin)
 * Spear Grip: of Enchanting (20% enchantment duration extension)
 * Inscription: "Let the Memory Live Again" (10% chance HSR)

I personally consider the to be better than a modded Fiery Flame Spitter. The Keeper of Arms already sells a base spear with 10% HSR, so all you need to hunt on your own is a Furious Spearhead and Spear Grip of Enchanting.

Potential downsides:
 * Base weapon is way more expensive than the flame spitter (but then, making 55 Monk armor is already expensive, so this is mostly a "600 Monk" issue)
 * Spearheads and Spear Grips only drop in Nightfall, whereas Axe components drop in all campaigns. This hints at the possibility that the Spear upgrade components might be relatively rarer (although it is also conceivable that Anet make spear components drop more often than axe components in Elona to even things out, but this is completely baseless armchair possibility-brainstorming).
 * Spear attack is slower than axe attack, so adrenalin builds up slower (I personally don't think the difference matters, my 55 usually wands enemies for adrenalin).

So what do you guys think? Have I described the new Ultimate Weapon for invicimonks (or at least, for 55 Monks)? Or do you still embrace the Fiery Flame Spitter as your supreme overload? -PanSola 09:28, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

Why doesnt ss work any more
I would like to know what this update is and if it only effects players in elona? (help please) :(

Spiteful Spirit was previous a viable 55 Monk and Necromancer hex, but has fallen into disuse after the Nightfall update.


 * It's probably a reference to the fact taht monsters consider it AoE and may flee from it. Personally, I find it still usable, and still better than quite a number of other choices out there. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 16:27, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Health stealing
I would just like to point out that health stealing skills ignore protective spirit and can easily result in a one hit kill. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.64.74.4 (contribs).


 * That's noted in the article. BigAstro 08:44, 22 July 2007 (CDT)