User talk:BrianG/Archive1

Feedback on Mt Heart Attack's Current Build
I dont have a Ranger anymore to test this out but it looks like a good design. Using extra damage from Shadow Strike to get you foe down to 50% and then having Brutal Strike is a nice combo. If I had a Ranger anymore I'd definitely try this out.&mdash; Azroth    13:46, 9 October 2006 (CDT) 

Feedback on Brian The Vaporizer's Current Build
This is basically just the as you stated, so I guess any feedback on it would apply to this as well. All in all its a solid build though. Sorry, but I cant think of any monk skills that could be used well with this. If I do I'll let you know.&mdash; Azroth    13:46, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks for commenting, but yeah, I need to come up with a new idea for this, so there is not much feedback you could provide right now. This character has been slightly neglected lately.  I'm open to any secondary profession since there is no theme or anything to this character design.  Might try your Touch Elementalist idea. -- BrianG 16:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Ok, but a touch ranger still works much better as my touch ele has no real defense. As it stands I haven't used that build in a while (or that character come to think of it).  I'll most likely change it to the Shatterstone version of Knock 'n Shock after I test out a theory.  But by all means feel free to give it a try and improve on it as much as you want.&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  16:31, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah I see what you mean about the defenses, I think I commented on that originally (under the name Mt Heart Attack). I really love the defensive Earth skills (I've been the last one standing in quite a few situations), so I'm thinking whatever I try will be a combination of Earth for defense and something else like Blood.  Perhaps an Earth/Blood build without the touch skills, to spam ranged blood spells?  If I come up with something interesting I'll let you know. -- BrianG 22:09, 9 October 2006 (CDT)



Feedback on Alignak Inukshuk's Current Build
Conjure Frost adds amazingly little damage, but the cyclone axe/warriors endurance/ice spikes thing is pretty cool--Zamanee 17:07, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks for the feedback. Conjure Frost doesn't add a ton of damage but it is considerable, especially when it is hitting multiple foes.  It used to do less damage but was recently increased.  Compare it to something like Signet of Strength, which adds only 5 damage.  I used to use that as well before I realized that +5 damage is not worth a skill slot. -- BrianG 11:46, 6 December 2006 (CST)


 * Yay! I finally have a Warrior (although I haven't updated my user page to show all my new characters yet [got one of every profession now :)]) so I can give u a review for this guy now.  I love the Conjure Frost and the whole combo mentioned above by Zamanee.  Frozen Burst is a great skill for snaring all targets around you and has great synergy with this build.  Right now I'm playing around with a W/E PBAoE Spike using Double Dragon, Inferno, and Glyph of Lesser Energy.  It works well since DD no longer causes Exhaustion and GoLE now affects your next two spells.  You might want to consider using GoLE, but as it stands your energy management seems fine so you probably don't need it.  Once I'm done perfecting my flame warrior I'll definitely toy around with this.  All in all it looks like a great build.&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  23:22, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * Cool thanks for the feedback. I love frozen burst but the long recharge on it kinda makes me jealous of fire's faster recharging PBAoE.  I did consider GoLE for this build when it got bumped up, but the problem is that I can't really spare the skill slot.  As it is I wish I had room for executioner's strike and disrupting strike.  If I wanted to switch to a different Elite though, GoLE would go in for sure.


 * I also have some new characters that haven't got added to my page yet, but I still haven't built a mesmer (coming next), assassin, dervish or paragon.



Feedback on Spirit Princess San's Current Build
Ahhh...This looks familiar. I used to run an almost identical build back when I was in love with spirits. I would use the Rupture Soul variant to solo farm trolls and other melee heavy monsters, or just use the echo doom to run with a team. You should definitely get Echo for this. As you said "Arcane Echo is too expensive". Some of the new Nightfall skills would probably make this a lot better since you focus on offensive spirits. Take a look through them and see if you can come up with a good variant of this for when NF comes out.&mdash; Azroth    13:46, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the tips. I'm definitely going to be adding Echo to this, I'm just not far enough in Factions to cap it yet, but I'm planning on getting there this week.  I figured other people may have come up with this idea as well, but nobody has posted this build yet so I might.  Any suggestions on Spirits?  Did you still use Shadowsong with Rupture Soul equipped?  I've looked through Nightfall stuff and was kind of disappointed with the Ritualist skills but I'll take a second look.  -- BrianG 16:05, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I still used Shadowsong becuase it could blind targets at a distance before they got to me and then I would just use it as my first bomb. As for Nightfall skills...Anguish and Signet of Might could be good if paired with Painful Bond, but you wouldn't be able to use Echo with it.&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  16:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

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General Comments
Eehm, is it me or has the link to your userpage been taken out of your signature? That's far from practical- please put it back in there :) If you need advice on signatures and/or how to make them a bit more fancy, you can just ask me or anyone :) -- Ifer (t/c) 11:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, I am new here so its possible I have unintentionally messed something up, but I'm not sure I follow what you mean. When I sign a comment, it leaves a link that says BrianG and when you click that, it directs here.  The only difference I can see between my signature and yours is that you have the talk and contributions links as well.  Maybe I'm not understanding you though, please explain further.  Or just let me know what specifically to do to correct it.  Thanks. -- BrianG 11:41, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I see it's fine now :) I was just reading some build policy discussion, and noticed that in some posts, links were missing. Hence the comment :) You were probably playing with your preferences at the time- there's an option there to enable/disable your signature linking to your userpage. If you would want to add more wikicode there, you might need to disable that option and add the link manually in your signature (that's what I did). -- Ifer (t/c) 11:45, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Ok great. Thanks for the assistance.  I think as soon as I get a chance, I'm going to play around with a more customized signature.  I want to choose and add an image of some kind i think. -- BrianG 14:10, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

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Re: moving articles
To move an article, click the "move" link in the control bar on top. Chose a new article name and state the reason for moving. That's how you move articles. If you select an article page (not a talk page) you can move both article and talk in one haul. ~ Nilles (chat) 14:07, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Awesome, thanks for the super-quick response. I'll take care of moving that build. -- BrianG 14:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Haha, thanks for catching my mistake, I'm usually not that careless. I guess its a good thing I didn't know how to move yet. ;) -- BrianG 14:34, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

NightAngel talk (con't)
We see it as an embarassment to the Wiki. Like I've stated before, the Wiki is superior to pretty much every other GW site in general info, including armor pictures/weapon descriptions/boss locations. We fail at builds. You want proof? The W/Mo Life Sheath user was a vetted build before Skuld saved face and deleted it. It was a joke. That's a horrible build, and the fact that it was Vetted is a clue that we're doing something wrong. One of my hopes in moving the build section onto a real build format is to attract more people (hopefully some people from other places, namely GWGuru) to work on the builds. As it stands, GWiki's build section is a joke. Go to GWGuru, post how much you love our build section, and prepare to get flamed into non-existance within a day. The people who flame aren't "haters," they just see what most Wiki users are unable to see; the Wiki build section is, indeed, a joke. -Auron  01:00, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Auron, I definitely understand your perspective, but its not the only perspective. I agree that the current voting system is flawed in that it allows bad builds to be favored before other users have a chance to review them.  However there are ways to fix that.  I tried to make suggestions in the "build debate" but its hard to get people to listen when everyone has their own idea how things should be done.  But I definitely agree with you that the builds section is flawed in that way.  The thing that some people don't understand though is that there are different types of people who enjoy playing the game in different types of ways.  From a professional player's perspective, I can understand why the build section seems like a joke.  But what about the casual players?  Or the build tinkerers?  From the way you describe gwguru, it doesn't sound like these types of players would feel comfortable there, so where do they belong?  Some build ideas are interesting and effective enough to want to share with other users who would also appreciate them.  Not all people play at a professional level where any build less than the absolute best build for pvp is laughed at.  Now obviously it matters how effective the build is, and I'm not trying to say that bad builds should be favored just cause they work for casual play.  I do understand that the line has to be drawn somewhere.  But I'm just trying to point out that if you are judging builds from the perspective of a professional pvp player, and the build is intended for pve (for example) then you are going to judge the build from the wrong perspective even if you are trying not to.  And if you are judging a build section filled with pve and/or experimental builds from that same perspective, its going to look like an embarassment.  But that doesn't mean that there are not other types of players who appreciate it.  And lastly, who cares what other websites think?  I don't get the whole concept of taking it personally and needing to "save face".  The people that use the builds section here understand its limitations.  When I look at builds (favored or not), I'm just looking for ideas. I take everything with a grain of salt.  I take what I like from it and put my own spin on it, or disregard it if I don't like the concept.  If someone is just going to copy a build skill-by-skill just because it happens to be in the favored section, they should just head over to gwguru and listen to whatever build the elitists you describe tell them to play. -- BrianG 10:29, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * You have a good point, separating the "professional" level from... "the tinkerers." My point is: it seems GWiki has too many "tinkerers" atm, and not enough people who have played the game and have experience with different skill combinations. For example, I was a PvE nub for eight months - that's longer than a good majority of these people who call me a "PvP meanie." I know PvE; I've done it. A good majority of the "professional" PvPers do PvE as well; in fact, someone is missing out on a good portion of the game by only doing PvP. The big difference between PvE nubs and PvPers is that the PvPers have tried different combinations of skills in different scenarios, and therefore are wiser about them. The PvE person trying the same combo has *never experienced that* before, so when the PvPer tells him the skill combo sucks, he gets offended, even if it sucks. That's not elitist - that's speaking from experience. When I knock a PvE build, it's because I know from experience it'll suck. People argue "oh, well u have a monk in ur party." Yeah my ass, I know how good the average PUG monk is - not good at all.
 * So... my hope with the site is to merge the experience of the long-time players (that don't use GWiki's build section... which is the majority of them) with the innovation of the "tinkerers." That way, the junk builds that have good ideas will be turned into good builds based on good ideas, and those become FotM's rather quickly. Win-win situation. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 11:54, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hmmm sounds like we are on almost the same page. I've been playing GW for about 6 or 7 months and most of that has been PvE, but I'm starting to learn what works and doesn't work in PvP (RA at least).  Ideally I like what you're saying, for the more experienced players to help the tinkerers understand why things may or may not work, and co-operate to turn the junk builds with good ideas into good builds.  The only time a problem with this arises is if the more experienced player doesn't have the patience to co-operate to improve something and instead just says it sucks and unfavors it without even making suggestions.  Here is a perfect example: Build talk:R/E Fire and Ice.  I came across this build and liked the Burning Arrow/Steam combo, but wasn't sure if the rest of the build was ideal.  As I was trying to make suggestions to turn this combo into a better build, already 3 people have come along and unfavored it before the author even responded to suggestions.  You can see from the discussion that I even tried very hard to coax Skuld to provide an alternate skillbar using this combo, but that failed.  So does that mean that the Burning Arrow/Steam combo is unusable?  Or just that this build overall is less than ideal?  I'm not really sure.  This is a good example of why your ideal situation (experienced players helping tinkerers) is failing due to the attitudes of the experienced players. -- BrianG 12:23, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah... experienced users that don't (want to) spend time working with the tinkerers don't synergize well. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 16:04, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah sometimes they don't. I really do think that guildwiki's build section could be "viable", if the policy and process were better designed.  I just got too busy to continue to follow the constant debates.  When I have more time I'll renew my efforts to suggest changes that could address many of the problems. -- BrianG 00:31, 12 December 2006 (CST)

heh, whoops
thanks for picking up the shielding hands related skills mistake. Xeon 00:19, 12 December 2006 (CST)
 * No problem. I just came across that accidentally, and figured it was just out of date info from before nightfall's official launch, didn't even realize you were making changes so recently.  funny timing.  :)  -- BrianG 00:28, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Making a build
This guide is the coolest thing. If you're still unsure about making a build, or just want to improve as a build crafter, check that page out. It's also useful as a reference tool as you try to improve one specific build; just go down the checklist and the build will improve with each step. -Auron  05:30, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks for the link, there were some helpful tips there. I find I'm pretty good at the technical "on paper" aspects of build making, like finding skills that synergize, making sure the attributes hit the right break points, and focusing the build to the ideal attributes, but my weak spots are more along the lines of knowing what roles are needed in different environments and understanding the metagame.  I'm finding it a bit tricky to make the jump from PvE and RA to things like TA and GvG.  Its somewhat intimidating to play in an environment where people have expectations for you to fill certain roles and know certain strategies.  If you could point me in the direction of any guides for common TA strategies and roles that would be awesome.  Thanks! -- BrianG 12:36, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Blood Healer
Sup. I removed the build stub tag off this build build, so it is now an open season untested build. I hoping it gets some exposure. There are like a million BMagic builds, but none quite the same as this one; none have the same objectives nor pure synergy of the Blood Healer. I think it shows, cuz the discussion page is full of comments, mostly you and I, but a few others too. I noted at the top of the build page that you and I both have been doing the development. Because of the pure number of BMagic builds, and the awesome synergy and efficacy of the D/N variant, I was thinking the concept and purpose of that build would get more exposure if listed as the 'D/N Mystic BiPer' or somthing like that. That would display the builds best strengths, and place it apart from the million mediocre N/any BMagic builds. What do you think? Either one of us could create the page, just as long as both are mentioned as developers (maybe you should create it, since you introduced using a Dervish secondary).--Windjammer 16:48, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah for sure. I still want to play around with it for a couple days and decide what the best n/d skillbar is, and then decide if I want to try D/N.  They may both work, and depending on how different the skillbars would be for each, could either go on one page (with switching the primary as a variant), or 2 pages if the skills used were different enough.  Oh and in case I didn't clarify enough on the build discussion, based on my PvP testing I'm pretty sure the build would work beautifully in PvE, where a lot of my problems would be reduced.  You will always have tanks to take the aggro and will always be able to retreat from the fight.  And you'll always have a monk, which works really well for this build.  Any time I was with a monk in RA I would tell them to throw any enchants on me if possible to boost my output.  Guardian was especially nice.  I mainly chose PvP because I was really excited to put my ideas into action. Thanks for providing credit on the build page. If you think the blood healer build is close to finalized you can archive some of our brainstorming, or maybe move it to one of our userpages to keep working on the dervish ideas? -- BrianG 18:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
 * Sounds good. I don't care where we continue working on ideas, I guess if they are closley related to a build, we could use that discussion page.  Any general ideas on Dervish builds or anything you want to bounce around I guess just start a topic on a user page.   Keep me updated as you continue to work on this D/N or N/D build.  I wish I had NF right now so I could test some of this for myself :(  Ah well, xmas is almost here.--Windjammer 22:57, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Hey there, just made your suggested changes to N/D variant on the blood healer page. Change and rearrange however and whatever you see fit there, as you are doing the testing. You should probably make a new page for it, as that build's qaulities look strongly favored toward BiPing, and it isn't resembling the Blood Healer much anymore. I'm thinking of splitting a N/Mo variant off from that page, a healer that combines Blood Magic heals with those of the Monk. It would either use a lot of Wells (in which case it might be a variant of the ) or might include BiP, for a full rang of support. I just can't tell yet because I need to do some testing for it and my Necro isn't ready for that yet :(--Windjammer 15:41, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * Cool thanks for updating it. I think it looks just about right.  My only concern is that increasing your maximum health with vital boon and demonic flesh will increase the size of the sacrifice for Blood is Power.  Without testing its hard to say how much impact this would make.  Not a major issue though, as one can always be taken out for a res sig or blood ritual or something.  I think you're right that it may deserve its own page, but my only concern is that without a PvE necro, I don't have the right platform to test it properly.  I'd like to at least see if I get any feedback on it first.  What I'll do for now is put a note in the discussion page, mentioning that splitting off the variants is being considered, and ask for people's opinion about whether they think the variants are worthwhile and should be split off. -- BrianG 18:00, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * P.S. I had a closer look at the N/Mo build. Gift of Health!  Nice idea.  I'd consider making a similar change to the N/Mo as we have on the N/D: Swap out Shadow Strike and Vampiric Gaze for Life Siphon and Gift of Health, to really focus on the healing role.  Life Siphon I think would be really useful, since Blood Renewal only gives +6 health regen so a couple Life Siphons would allow you to use Blood Bond more.  And Gift of Health just rocks for a spike heal without the usual drawback. -- BrianG 18:24, 17 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah. I like the N/Mo, you get extra power to heal yourself and your allies.  My only concern playing these builds so far is that they can do a lot, so much that you have your hands full trying to do so many things. That is one reason I swapped out Life Siphon for Shadow Strike.  That spell gives you quick shot of health so you can go back about your business of support healing and energizing.  The reason I want to split the variants off is that they both fulfill their objectives better than the basic build.  A skill like BiP is a specialized skill that requires skills on the skill bar to support its large sacrifice costs.  The Blood Healer had those skills, but as I discussed above, they take time to work.  The BiP Necro build on the tested page had only a couple of self heal skills, but all you had to do was push a button and you had health, and it didn't try to stretch out its health to cover Blood Bond too.  The N/Mo variant solves these problems, but it isn't likely to get any response on guildwiki, just because it doesn't have any clever mechanisms.  It just solves its problems using rote healing power, and anybody interested in the BiP Necro would eventually find that out for themselves.  The N/D variant is so unique becuase it has an unusual mechanism that I havn't seen on any other Dervish build on guildwiki.  That mechanism is the Signet of Pious Light combined with enchantments that heal you when they end, making what is usually a downside to using that Signet a strength!  Further, the Dervish class is still a little new, builds using it just get more attention.  I really think an N/D BiPper page should be created; it would get attention and it has clever mechanisms that people would enjoy.  With qualities like that it won't languish on the untested page forever like an N/Mo doing the same thing would.


 * Now, for a few suggestions on the N/D, considering my experiences playing the pure necro. I think Life Siphon should be Vampiric Gaze, this gives you immediate health gain for whenever you need it and you don't have to spend time placing a million Siphons (many of which will be cut short anyway as your victims die).  Demonic Flesh should probable be somthing else too, increased life + sacrifice is not generally a good idea.  Though the math looks like you have lots of self heal, making it less of a liability and maybe a boon as you have more room to store that health income.  Only testing can tell.  I actually think that Armor of Sanctity is a good choice for this build considering it's mechanisms.  It is a cheap, quick enchant, but most importantly it has a quick recharge, so when stripped by your Signet it will always be ready to put right back on.  And having damage reduction against conditioned foes is never bad, 50% of the time foes have conditions on them.  Aura of Thorns also has its uses.  Also consider changing Blood Bond to somthing else.  This was once a staple skill, but with the Signet you already have a fine way of providing healing.  I'm favoring Signet of Lost Souls here, as it makes use of the attribute points you already have in Soul Reaping, and provides extra health and energy management.  I also think you should go ahead and make the N/D page now, that build has potential and will get noticed just because it is different.  If you later find a D/N sister build to it, it can be posted on that same page, as to do so seems common on guildwiki I've noticed.  Unless you just don't think the N/D is ready for primetime (you are the guy doing the testing, if it looks good on paper but doesn't work well, then it aint ready), I think it needs a page to start showcasing its qualities.  But what to call it?  I still like Mystic BiPper, or The Mystic BiP.  But maybe you have a better name.

Here is the build I'm favoring now.

--Windjammer 00:27, 18 December 2006 (CST)

usage notes
been playing the blood healer more. as i play it i see it is really a full range support necro, which is what I was going for in design. however, with that build, BiP is not used much and is to heavy a sac cost and too expensive to use effectively anyway. the blood healer build (which includes a heal spell, a battery spell, a well spell, and attack spells) is really an unspecialized blood magic support necro! I may have to make a build titled 'general PvE blood support necro' or somthing. it is really kind of fun to play, as you do a little of everything. but it has to use straightforward power attacks though (I wish i could have two vamp gazes!) so you can worry about setting up a well or two, enchanting the monk and tank with blood bond, and then helping out with attacking and being a battery when necessary. it is really a flexible build and fun to play! the elite has to be an unspecialized, non-dangerous, power skill to keep any unecessary complexities out. I like Life Transfer for this now. anyway, i actually wanted to write you to list some notes i had thought of on usage of the N/D BiP/Healing build. as i've been stressing now, keeping the build's skillset and usage straightforward is very valuable, which is why this build works (i think) with that bar above. the hardest part is to keep your four enchants on yourself. As long as you have enchants up, one button push heals, one button push energizes, and you have two buttons you can push to get health for yourself and one of those also gives energy (assuming foe is belwo 50%). Thats way simpler than setup a bunch of life siphons, cast blood bond, cast blood renewal, more life siphons, BiP, vamp gaze, ect ect. Since you are both healing and battery, you need to have the least amount to worry about as possible. As I said above, healing and BiPing with this build is the easy part, keeping your enchants on is the hard part. more importantly keeping them on the right order (for signet to strip off the one you want it to) is the hard part. you want your top enchant (the one to be stripped) to always be blood renewal or vital boon, so you get the heal. they don't have to _always_ be the top enchant, but you see what i'm saying. you have to also deal a little with recharge times on the enchants, but fortunantly all the enchants on this build have short to manageably moderate recharges. I also looked over the options you would have with D/N. I think the primary difference would be choice of energy management: Soul Reaping or Mysticism. Also, mysticism has a couple useful enchants, unfortunantly the both have recharges of 20+ seconds, not good for the simplicity thing.--Windjammer 04:23, 18 December 2006 (CST)


 * Hey... I've been thinking about it and think you might be right about Vampiric Gaze or Shadow Strike or something. Life Siphon is a bit of a pain.  Plus if your regen is already maxed it doesn't actually help you heal.  I find its really important as a cover hex if using an elite like Life Transfer or Reaper's Mark, but with Blood is Power that's not a concern.  So maybe you're right that simplicity of use would be improved.   Overall I like the skillbar you proposed above, with 2 concerns.  First off, no more Blood Bond?  I really liked the way it combo'd with mystic regen.  And secondly, I'm not sure how well Armor of Sanctity will work if you don't have a way to inflict a condition on someone yourself.  Plus it has a really short duration so it will be harder to maintain.  Maybe Aura of Thorns?  But you're right, dropping Demonic Flesh is probably a good idea due to the sac cost on BiP.  I'm going to edit the page appropriately.


 * As for whether this build is ready to be submitted, the main problem is that I don't have a PvE necro to test it so its hard for me to decide on just the right skillbar. Especially when you are getting down to that last skill slot and can't decide whats best.  Thats why I was hoping for feedback from more experienced players.  But I think I agree that the /mo and /d builds do seem fairly different than your curses build.  I'm thinking what we could do is put the /d variant on its own page, and list the /mo as a variant of the /d.  Depending what you want to do with the curses version, if you want to start a new page for that, we could even just edit the page in this way and change the name to N/D Mystic BiP.  I was thinking something like that for the name would be good.


 * If I get around to making a dervish, I think it wouldn't be a BiP build. I liked skuld's suggestion using Arcane Zeal and Order of Pain.  But I'm really not even thinking about making a dervish right now, as I think I have to make a necro next. -- BrianG 08:35, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * yeah it is a pain doing development without the character to test it, as I found out with that original blood healer. once i got a necro to test it, i found it was basically unplayable as it was just too complex.  One idea for working with that concern and getting some input from experienced players is to make an N/D page with only the build-stub tag on it, so it will just be placed on that page.  it won't get as much exposure there, but those who do see it will know it is still being worked on and will offer their input appropriatley.  with armor of sanctity, the only reason for choosing it was because it was cheap fast with a short recharge; and since you heal via having enchants on, i liked it since you would always have it available to cast on yourself.  its short duration does make it a pain though.  I dunno, i just can't find another great enchant for this build.  maybe you could make that the rez slot or put anther necro vampiric attack skill like shadow strike or vamp swarm there.  it could also be well of blood, but that is expensive and moving away from what this build is starting to specialize on now.  now that i think about it, blood bond could go there too, with all the regen it does work good, and you'd have more healing power, it is cheap.  it gets at the heart of this build, healing and BiPing, and you don't do a lot of BiPing i think (at least i havn't with the blood healer), so another healing spell would probably be really useful.  yeah i guess blood bond does belong in this build.--Windjammer 12:09, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, I'm with you. I've updated it so that there is an optional slot, with some of our ideas listed.  I think Aura of Thorns would be better than Armor of Sanctity since it lasts longer and helps kite if needed.  However, I think you can get away without an extra enchant, but I don't know what would be best there.  If partying with a lot of warriors, Dark Fury might be fun.  Then you are providing health, energy, AND adrenaline.  The short duration is a problem as usual though, same with Order of Pain.  I like the idea of moving it to its own stub.  Maybe I'll work on that tonight.  Thanks. -- BrianG 12:18, 18 December 2006 (CST)

A build I'm working on
Hey man! just thought I'd drop you a line and let you know I got a new build page in the untested area. I'm doing it again, with the developing without having a toon to test it with! (I said never again, but...) Go check it out at least, try it out too. The only reason I can't play it is because I dont have NF and it uses _one_ NF skill (Ravenous Gaze). I will have that soon though. I put it up with a message on the talk page that I havn't actually played it and for people to please give feedback. I used what I've learned with designing my other builds and tried to keep it simple, as such it really has only two types of skills, attack skills and heals, they all work together really good though. Hows that for simple?!? Oh yeah, here is the link to the build ->Build:N/Mo Ravenous Vampire Magus <-- Along with Beastmastery, I guess I'm hooked on Blood Magic builds now too!--Windjammer 02:05, 19 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hey Windjammer, I saw your new Ravenous build from following the link on your page. I got my friend Nightfall for Christmas, and am building a necro to play through the game with him.  I'm sure I will be testing out all the ideas we have been playing around with.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Did you get Nightfall for Christmas as you hoped? -- BrianG 00:59, 26 December 2006 (CST)

The BrianG?
Is this the BrianG of Canthan Elite?
 * I don't know what Canthan Elite is, so I'm guessing I'm not the guy you're thinking of. Didn't know I shared a name with someone though. -- BrianG 00:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Well, you do, so that's kinda weird. Its odd, beacuse he dosn't have a space in the name either.--TheDrifter 17:27, 27 December 2006 (CST)