User talk:PanSola/Archive

Disambiguation
Was looking at Talk:Rank, FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disambiguation--William Blackstaff 17:48, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Orozar quests boss info
I will move the boss info you place din Orozar's page to the Sorrow's Furnace Boss Locations article which I will create now. We can then link to it in SF's article as well as the individual boss articles. --Karlos 19:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, great idea! It did feel odd putting the info under Orozar himself (-: -PanSola

That revert
Sorry, I was heading out the door as I made it and forgot to explain. When people manually revert stuff (as opposed to admins, who have a revert button), I like to check to make sure they did it right. When I compared Tetris' revert with the guy's edit I saw a sentence floating around (which I think the guy left on purpose). I was too lazy to try and figure out whether or not Tetris had gotten everything so I just did a proper revert and got the talk page back to how it was before everything which included removing your archive link.

Sorry about that. Feel free to re-archive it, I was just making sure nothing was dropped. The revert actually had nothing to do with your archiving. --Karlos 20:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I bow to your impressive singlemindedness
Though, for such long, robotic tasks in the future it might be better to invest some time in writing a MediaWiki bot. They actually made 1.5.0 easier for botmasters. I think I even have some bot code lying around somewhere that I can dig up if you're interested. &mdash; Deldda Kcarc 02:32, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh, didn't even know such things existed. I pretty much just use my mouse and Ctrl+V 99% of the time, not that much typing involved, thanks to templates (-: -PanSola 02:34, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Monk Collector Weapons
PanSola, you put some stuff in Monk Collector Weapons, but didn't remove the delete tag. Should this be deleted or should the tag be removed? --Rainith 03:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll fill the page eventually (within a week or two) unless someone beat me to it. Since I created the page I'm not supposed to remove the delete tag.  All info are already on the General Collectors pages, just need to organize them and stuff, and haven't had enough initiative to do it these last few days. -PanSola 05:26, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Spending Money
Why did you destroy my section on Spending Money? Was going to be a section which eventually had rough prices for items, as:

a) We don't have any kind of central resource on things which are "buyable", and b) We don't have info on how much things cost e.g. rough guidelines on how much various items cost when purchased from traders/other players (for example, black dye costs ~8k, and so forth).

If you are still dead set on not having this info on the Money page (which I think is actually the sort of thing the page is for), could you give me a suggestion as to where else this info belongs?

Kidburla 07:45, 22 February 2006 (CST)


 * See Talk:Money and also I believe User questions about why we don't post trade prices of items. Nevermind not there, I will find this link though, but I have to head home now.  --Rainith 07:56, 22 February 2006 (CST)
 * If you want to, put the section back and discuss it out on the talk page. -PanSola 12:07, 22 February 2006 (CST)


 * Thanks. Done Kidburla 20:32, 22 February 2006 (CST)

Planetary Domination?
Hey Pan, what is the Planetary Domination Fund? Where did the idea come from? What is the "Profit!" stage? What actually is Planetary Domination anyway? ... Kidburla 07:17, 17 February 2006 (CST)
 * Well, um, taking over the planet? and the money required to pay for all the expenses (hiring assassings to get rid of ppl who know to much info etc...) -PanSola 10:07, 17 February 2006 (CST)

Character Names
You have very varied character names! =P Skuld &Dagger; 16:15, 21 October 2005 (EST)
 * Hehe thank you (-: If we ever get more character slots, Ranger primary will be Soru Pan, and Necro primary will be Sory Pan.  When Chapter 2 comes out with more professions, I'll run into the Vowel-6 bug (I consider "Y" as a vowel) >_<" -PanSola 16:19, 21 October 2005 (EST)
 * Don't the French use H as a vowel? you could use that aswell Skuld &Dagger; 16:40, 21 October 2005 (EST)
 * Well, I don't speak the silent language. Sorh?  Bah, most ppl will think it only has one sillyball!!!  (Admittedly, "Sore" already has that problem...) -PanSola 16:44, 21 October 2005 (EST)
 * This is just came in from the useless information department: H is not a vowel in French, it is a silent letter. "Hopital" is pronounced "opital" and "l'hopital" is "lopital" --Karlos 20:45, 21 October 2005 (EST)

Collector NPC Question
Any character that you cannot play as is really a NPC. I usually don't tend to put hostile enemies in this category for some dumb reason but pretty much anything can go in here. NPC=Non Playable Character.--The King Tarosian 08:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That's not my question. "If handaxe is listed under axe, and axe is listed under weapon, then should we still list handaxe under weapon" is the analogy of my question. -PanSola 08:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I see what your saying now, eh. Good question. One part of me says "well whats the purpose of even having an "axe" category if its just going to be in weapons anyhow" and then another part says "its better to have it under everything it can possibly go under". On this one I really can't come to a conclusion. Anyone else care to comment?--The King Tarosian 08:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If it goes like this Weapon->Axe->Handaxe; then Handaxe should belong to the Axe which in turn belongs to the Weapon. So although the Handaxe is a Weapon it should only appear under Axe (and therefore Weapon as Axe is listed under Weapon.) Having it appear in both, (however true) is only going to lead to duplicate (pointless) links and defeat the purpose of subcategories.--William Blackstaff 08:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That's exactly how it should be. An article should only be in one category of a categorization tree. Another example would be the Bestiary: Stone Summit Gnashers are only in Category:Stone Summit (which is a Subcategory to Category:Dwarves). Despite being dwarves, the Gnashers are not in Category:Dwarves, too.--Eightyfour-onesevenfive 11:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, this has been argued back and forth before. I believe the last time I saw it, it was agreed that there was nothing wrong with them going in both categories.  But I couldn't for the life of me tell you where that discussion took place.
 * And for the dwarves, we should have Stone Summit and Deldrimore as sub-categories IMO. --Rainith 11:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * With respect to the specific issue of Stone Summit, I thought it's agreed that it's a political faction (not a species), including Ice Golems and the like, so it's not a sub-cat of Dwarfs. -PanSola 21:26, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ha! That's cute, you think anything is ever actually decided on a Wiki.  :P  --Rainith 11:08, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Meh I don't see the point in putting them in both categories, if one category is a subcategory of the other. By putting it in the subcategory it also inherenty belongs to the category. But, no biggie, cest 'la vie. --William Blackstaff 16:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Category:NPCs
Hey, I thought of a possible way to cut down on the number of entries for the NPCs category, and since you're actively campaigning for this I figured I'd give it to you and if you want to run with it you can. Split out people who give quests into Category:Quest Givers (or something like that). That would have to (in my mind, twisted as it may be) be a sub-category of NPCs and that would then cull quite a few of the herd out of NPCs. --Rainith 14:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That'd be a relatively unnatural one in my view. A slightly modified idea (though still not quite natural) is "Quest NPCs", which doesn't have to give out quest, but are related to quests (intermediate people that need to be talked to etc).  Anyways removing articles that are already in leaf categories needs to be agreed upon and put inot action first otherwise this new subcategory still wouldn't do any good ^^.  But thanks for the suggestion (-: -PanSola 15:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Pre-Order items
See: Coke Item for one way to format them. I think the US pre-order items each have their own page, but personally I kinda prefer the Coke Item page. --Rainith 17:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Staff Wrapping
Pop on and go to Piken Square int. 1 and I'll give you the staff wrapping. It's +10% so it will be easy to calculate. --Rainith 02:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Picked up a Long Sword of Skeletonslaying (+10%) if you're still interested in doing that testing. Message me here or in-game if you want it.  --Rainith 10:24, 11 February 2006 (CST)
 * Cool I will hunt you donw when I log on (-: -PanSola 10:26, 11 February 2006 (CST)
 * Hey, I just got a Hammer of Deathbane. Find me when you're on and I'll give it to you.  --Rainith 09:08, 13 February 2006 (CST)

Gibberish content
If you wish to add chinese/taiwanese/japanese/koreanese content to the wiki you will need to start working in a separate project OR see how wikipedia does it. They really do some cool stuff. For now, translating the wiki to Gibbershese is a tall order. What you can do is what wikipedia does for content that is available in English and they want it to be found by other language users. This is from Karl Malone's page:

''' Karl Malone

Karl Malone

Karl Malone

×§××¨×œ ×ž×œ×•×Ÿ

Karl Malone

ã‚«ãƒ¼ãƒ«ãƒ»ãƒžãƒ­ãƒ¼ãƒ³

Karl Malone

Karl Malone '''

This shows how the article is named in different languages. You would have to consult with Gravewit/Nunix first to see if such a feature is applicable to our wiki. But I think that would be SO much easier than rewriting the wiki in Chinese, at least for now.

In the mean time, please do not content in any language other than English.. S'il vous plait. :) --Karlos 05:35, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You kind of missed the discussion two days ago GuildWiki_talk:Community_Portal ~_~""" Nunix kinda said its fine for a small subste of pages, though he didn't tell me where to put it, which is why most of the pages I created are under my own user namespace for now (except for the Categories which wouldn't work, and one article I filed under the GuildWiki namespace, a Chinese version of How To Help), waiting to be moved once that is sorted out.-PanSola 06:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Those language links make the little box on the lower left "in other languages"? I don't see how that helps until I know how each term used by Guild Wars in English is translated into Chinese, which in and of itself is a major project.
 * I'd like to have your permission to at least continue working on the article redirected to by User:PanSola/EnglishToChinese. It serves the dual purpose of English to Chinese translation, and Chinese to English (since things are organized into managable-sized sections and there's a ToC).  I won't be creating new articles in non-English, but that two-way translation guide is a deserving and worthy project (because some stuff just DON'T follow, or don't have, a natural translation between English and Chinese). -PanSola 06:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh please, do not stop working. All I am saying is move them out of the main name space. Check the recent changes for what I just did to the how to help article. If you don't like the name change, that's absolutely fine. That is all I am asking for. --Karlos 08:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Coolness. Is there a way to do the samething with categories?  Or are we stuck with having Chinese categories in the main category namespace? -PanSola 09:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Vote Countdowns
Just wanted to say that I really like your approach of handeling potentially controversial edits with a vote and a timer countdown. I shall adopt that method too, for the future. :) -- 08:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems my idea got stolen by you Pan...oh well no matter.... regarding Talk:Leader, sorry about not putting it at the bottom but i wanted people to see it first and formost and at the top of the page seemed the best place to put it... I'll put you vote to not delete into the other options section.--William Blackstaff 12:15, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * While I do like the vote countdowns, and it is getting stuff done, why don't you put a moratorium on new ones until your current countdowns are done? I keep seeing you post "last day to vote" and I can't recall if that was something I cared about, and if so wheather I have cast my vote yet.  If you only had one or two in the air at a time, that wouldn't be a problem.  --Rainith 16:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Blah, well, the ones currently collecting votes are over at User:PanSola. I'll make future ones space out more.  -PanSola 17:01, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Chinese pages
For now, just write and organise them however you'd like. Just try and stick within "cheatsheet" mentality; we can't afford the load or the oversight of a translation of every article right now. Grave or I will check back in a week or so and see how things are going. Also: best way to get attention of someone if you want an okay, or just a review, is to use their User Talk page. There's a tonne of stuff going on all over the place, and watchlist is only good for so much. Also-also: the countdown thing is pretty nice. Consider making it a subpage of the Task List (and we need to get task list linked off main page) so that everyone can follow it, not just people who know you're the vote-running guy. Good work on all this stuff, man. --Nunix 19:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Aye aye (-: -PanSola 19:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Pet Experience
I noticed on the animal companion page that it says specifically that pets cannot level above 20, and I wonder if this is true. I have never seen a pet level past me (start below and overtake me), which could (and should) presumably happen given the roughly doubled rate of experience that they seem to have. I am testing this possibility tonight by grabbing a new pet for a toon, and seeing what happens when the pet hits my level, if I only gain my experience with combat. Presumably at some point the pet will be my level, and should be gaining experience at twice the rate, which should allow it to easily pass me. My curiosity is this - suppose that in fact there is no level cap on pets, merely some statement in the code causing them not to gain experience once they are the same level as the player. For most purposes this would be equivalent - few players get their XP purely from combat, few have pets higher level than them and few always use their pet. I guess what struck me is that I somehow doubt that it has been tested rigourously - I know WE don't gain levels past 20, but most things in GW do. I am thinking of trying to test this assumption, but it will be hard.

1) The first step is to determine whether there is a block on the pet passing the owner in experience. This should be doable tonight - I am level 3 1/2 at this point, and can easily get a level 3 Moa from near Ascalon.  By the time I hit level 4 it should be roughly level 4, allowing it to pass me if I fight only enemies for that level.  If it doesn't then I'd guess that some form of experience block comes into play, since it gains at double rate below OR above my level.  In fact, I think I will re-roll, and arrange to be exactly at level 3 when I tame my level 3 pet, to ensure that it should in fact pass me - otherwise it will be hard to ensure that it would be in a position to pass me. 2) If a block appears to be in place, I then will need to verify whether this block is the cause of the level 20 restriction:  I have a level 16 Monk who is ascended; if I can convince my guildmates to lead me down for a spider I can be several levels below my pet; if I then kill only high level enemies the pet should accumulate enough experience to level before I hit 20.

3) Wolves in pre-searing will level from attacking foes, including the PC. I have a level 15 wolf in pre-searing, gotten by allowing a wolf to attack my level 10 character overnight (I led it to a res-shrine, where it levelled on me for hours).  Unfortunately, Anet nerfed the ability to lead foes to shrines (probably too many folks farming Charr for XP in pre-searing) so this is no longer the easy prospect it once was.  Nonetheless, my pre-searing ranger is up to level 14 or so thus far, if I put some work into him I can get him up to a reasonable level (say 18 or so), and allow the wolf to kill me repeatedly.  This can check whether the restriction exists for pets or for animals, should the restriction in level seem to exist.  What do you think?  Is it a reasonable thing to test?--Epinephrine 14:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Reasonable. I believe the lv20 cap is written there because (I didn't write that, mind you):
 * A. No one has ever seen a pet beyond Lv20, despite how long the game has been out.
 * B. There obviously has to be a level cap for pets somewhere, and it cannot be ridiculously high for balance issues (same reason we don't have "Uber" armor/weapons).
 * C. PvP characters are supposedly having max stats of everything (granted they have to unlock runes and upgrades). The pet given to them is at lv20.
 * And for the above reasions I would be inclined to believe the claim without rigorous testing, which is not to say the matter does not deserve rigorous testing. Now, for your testing methods 2 (I don't really think there's a block with respect to the player's level, it feels to me like a huge mistakened perception), you should check the math to ensure that the mobs you kill to take you from level 16 to 20 is really sufficient for your pet to reach a theoretical level 21 (keeping in mind that the pet gets less experience and the amount needed to level up would be higher).  And similarily for 3, figure out how many times the animal would have to kill you instead of just assume "leaving it there for an entire weekend ought to be enough".
 * Additionally, it may be that "pets" have a level cap at 20 (regardless of the player's level), but that "animals" (and mobs) do not have such cap. And then an animal who has leveled past 20 may or may not be charmable.
 * Finally, we can test whether certain restrictions are not there, but we cannot test whether certain restrictions are definitely there. It might be the pet level cap is actually 25 or 30, but after level 20, there is a suddenly a exorbitant leap in the amount of experience needed for the pet to attain the next level.  Extremely unlikely, so the best we can do is to say "for all intent and purposes, we'll treat the inability to test whether a pet can get to level 21 at the expense of a reasonable amount of time and effort as the existence of a level cap at 20".  Just like right now it is impossible to determine if there is a different rank emote for 15, (I'm not even sure if anyone is really at 12 yet).


 * Now that I've said it's a reasonable thing to test, I also want to say I'm far more interested in finding out the exact pet base-damage range at each level (without critical hits) ^^. But it's your research, your project.  Do what you are motivated to do (-: -PanSola 15:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * LOL, yeah, I'd rather do the damage testing, but it requires the cooperation of at least 7 people to test it! (you need 4 real people to start a GvG, so I need 7 guildmates to help out!) So far I haven't managed to elicit that kind of help :(  This stuff I can test pretty much solo, which is handy.  I promise to keep bugging my guildies to help me with the critical hit testing ;)


 * Wow, ok, I got to level 2 nearly exactly (2015 experience) and tamed a level 2 wolf. I then killed only level 2 creatures, worth 100 experience each.  The wolf levelled after the 13th kill (1300 experience for me - keeping with the doubled experience rate, one might assume, as was observed for pets above or below one's level, but took almost exactly 3200 experience to go from level 3 to level 4 (although it did level past me, so clearly player level doesn't limit it).  It is strange - I may have to do another bit of testing on pets above my level, but it seemed like experience slowed down for the level when we were the same.  I did a bunch of tests with pets below my level, but only the one test of pets above, so I'll do a few more there.

Battle Isles access for PvE characters who haven't unlocked LA
I don't have access to GW at the moment (see my user page), but I think I left my character in the Guild Hall! However I haven't unlocked LA on that character. Does that mean that when I map travel out of the Guild Hall, I won't be able to re-enter it until I have got to LA?

Thanks Kidburla 19:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow actually I have no clue. I didn't realize the Guild Hall is also on Battle Isles.  I jsut know for my characters who havne't gone past Ascalon they don't have the ship at all.  I'm not in a guild with a guild hall. -PanSola 20:24, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Anon Axe edit
Would you look at the latest anon. edit to Axe and see if that makes sense, you're more into the damage stuff than I am. Thanks. --Rainith 01:25, 14 February 2006 (CST)

RawDump
Hi PanSola, you're obviously working on Bestiary/RawDump. We should coordinate our work, as I've created a wikified version that I saved under Bestiary/RawDumpWikified. We should continue only one of the two pages, so none of us is working in vain. -- 21:27, 17 February 2006 (CST)

Nifty Comments
PanSola, I hope you don't mind me asking but how do you do those nifty comments next to items that appear in the Recent Changes log? I=Wiki noob. - Evil_Greven 11:14, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * It's technically called "Summary", and appears between the text input area and the save button (-: -PanSola 11:15, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * Haha.. and I've missed this all this time >.< Thanks :) - Evil_Greven 11:33, 1 March 2006 (CST)

Template suggestion
A minor adjustment, but is it possible to remove the icon= field entirely, and replace the with , or does this not work correctly? - Evil_Greven 02:53, 3 March 2006
 * That is part of the new proposals, or at least mine does that, and I think Skuld's proposal also does that. -PanSola 04:35, 3 March 2006 (CST)
 * I was going to do that but someone said unless I want to edit 1000 pages.. :D 15:04, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Float left
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with that, by the way? Am I the only one where it shows up all awkward and falling off at the bottom of the page? I don't think it meshes well with the right-floating item details box. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 13:48, 15 March 2006 (CST)
 * Float left avoids box collisions. It will only fall off if it were colliding with the right-floating item details box (or if the margin were set too high).-PanSola 13:50, 15 March 2006 (CST)


 * By the way, I was more referring to Leather Armor rather than the collector table. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, I feel stupid now. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 15:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)

minor-ly MIA
yar, gearing up for an international move and working crazy hours, le Nunix has been le scarce. ;p Probably get my head stuck back in here but not for another month or so, but it seems like things have been going pretty okay, so.. good! =D --Nunix 19:10, 15 March 2006 (CST) (now with proper stamping)

Chinese
I'll probably be setting up a test for different languages here, starting with Chinese language translation. Get in touch with me via email please Gravewit

Please stop recategorizing skills
Please let the discussion to take its natural course before making or editing new categories! 18:33, 16 March 2006 (CST)


 * There was a discussion, Category talk:Skill, and no one argued against it for about two months. -PanSola 18:35, 16 March 2006 (CST)


 * There is a current ongoing discussion about skill categories that will almost 100% invalidate all the stuff you're doing now. Have patience for a little while longer. 18:36, 16 March 2006 (CST)


 * Not really, I didnt see how it affected anything related to Skill types. All the discussions were between Profession and Campaigns.  Besides, if you haven't noticed, I finished doing everything before you told me to stop.  I wasn't creating a new category.  I was following the "Plural rule" with the usual "use parenthesis for disambiguation" practice.  Nothing new.  Skil types weren't even on your graph.  -PanSola 18:38, 16 March 2006 (CST)


 * But it's the same story, PanSola. Prophecies Skills by type, Glyphs by Campaign, same story. I think Tetris' chart was to illustrate, not dictate where the suffix/prefix will go. Basically we have to major trees right now, Skills by Profession (branching into attributes) and skills by type (branching into attacks/glyphs/signets/...). With the introduction of Skills by Campaign, we now have 3 possibilities of browsing:
 * By Profession x By Campaign
 * By Campaign x By Profession
 * By Campaign x By type
 * By Type x By Campaign
 * By Type x By Profession
 * The remaining case (By Profession x By Type) seems uninteresting. Yes, this is getting uglier by the minute. :) Anyways, just wanted to comment that the categorization is affected. (i.e. there will be Prophecies Signet, Core Signets and Factions Signets). :( --Karlos 19:21, 16 March 2006 (CST)


 * Well again, I'm not inventing a new category. I'm just applying the plural rule, and add disambiguation so it doesn't get confused with Category:Skills.  I wasn't touching the prefix/suffix system.  If someone created an article for the Domination Magic (Quest) article, but misnamed it to Domination Magick, I don't care if there is a debate on whether we want to add campaign suffix to quest articles or not, I am renaming the article to Domination Magic (Quest) in the mean time.-PanSola 19:52, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Progression - NA icon
Please see User:Evil_Greven/Aura_of_Restoration. What do you think about the insertion of the NA icon there? While I'd like to do it via the N/A template, it doesn't work properly with the table. - Greven 09:08, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * Visually it look nice. Functionally I don't see the necessity.  To make a template that works with it will be quite a hassel.  But if you can get it to work without overly complicating the template syntax (some complication of syntax seems unavoidable to me), I don't see a problem with it. -PanSola 09:11, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Skill Box version 6?
Please see: User:Evil_Greven/Unyielding_Aura2 when you have the chance. Sorry, I blatently ripped off your design, however there's no way I'm entering it, I merely wish to address the concerns of two people who commented on the vote. - Greven 17:14, 17 March 2006 (CST) Oh yeah.. check out the little quick tip thing (mouseover energy/upkeep/activation/recharge icons), and incidently... is there a reason anymore to keep the larger Quick Reference List box (skill/profession icon & attribute) with the the hybrid format? - Greven 17:26, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * While the final result is nice, I don't see any way to code the cool feature into the general template. And I am NOT going to make templates Energy1 to Energy25, Recharge1 to Recharge126 or whatever.  Exactly whose and which concerns are you suppposed to be addressing btw? - PanSola who can't log in due to stupid bug.
 * JoDiamonds and Xeeron both left comments right above this (GuildWiki_talk:Style_and_formatting/Skills) section. Yeah, I know, I don't like that either.. I was testing to see if I could use a template within a template like that, but I can't get it to work correctly. I'll be gone most of the rest of the day, so I won't be here until then. - Greven 23:41, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * Agh one last thing before I go, check the history of the template and you can see the various versions that were made, the earliest looked more like the Comprehensive Box 2 merged with your Portrait 5, if you decide on entering you wouldn't have to rewrite that way. - Greven 23:53, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * I want to also keep LordBiro's concerns addressed though. Namely that "using only the icon provides a confusing line of text to screen readers".  That was the main reason I created Hybrid 3~5 (all of which puts stats in a column with text labels instead of the row of icons seen in Hybrid 2).  I think JoeDi's concern is already addressed with Hybrid 5, and I don't see anything else left to change. -24.7.179.183 04:36, 18 March 2006 (CST)
 * One thing that will have to be changed about Hybrid 5 is using the h2 for the Description text. Check out the User:PanSola/Unyielding_AuraP5, and click the [edit] s -- they don't match up correctly, and even if you change nothing else that will have to be corrected.  The formatting is a bit off on my variant, but I'm unsure of the tags for which to correct the proper text size.  I might suggest moving the Profession icon into the Icon box and making it full-size, as LordBiro also commented on the reasoning for this.  Further, it seems the Quest-available notification gained importance for the Landscape format.  Could Hybrid 5 be reduced further in horizontal size with a smaller Skill Categorization width?  It seems like there is a lot of wasted space there.  Lastly, about the nifty templates, it wouldn't be quite as many as it might seem, even if it's still impractical.  Energy costs are 5, 10, 15, 25.  Adrenaline is 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.  Sacrifice is 8, 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, 33. Activation is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8.  The worst one would be Recharge... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 25, 30, 45, 55, 60, 115. I wish I could figure out a way to just include them & the value in the template. - Greven 10:19, 18 March 2006 (CST)
 * the H2 issue is fixed. As for icon box, it's going to look weird if the skill icon is off center.  And the profession icon at "full size" is still relatively small so putting them next to each other will look really weird, at least the ways I can think of to arrange them.  As for wasted space for the landscape format, remember there are users of different resolutions.  Finally, as for the floating tip, I figured out a much easier way to work it, using two templates per stat.  However I'm busier this weekend than I expected, and I don't think it really matter in the terms of template proposals (it doesn't affect the design), so we can just add that feature in later.  I doubt anyone's vote is going to get affected by the lack of that feature. -24.7.179.183 09:52, 19 March 2006 (CST)
 * Ah the Description looks nice. I see your point about the skill icon & profession icon... you're right, it would probably look goofy.  I'm very curious and eager to see the better tooltip templates.  Also, I agree with the floating tooltips being unnecessary to the design, but on the other hand it should display the tooltips in a Text browser next to the image, right?  If that's the case the detail descriptions would be unnecessary and cutting them would save some space. - Greven 10:22, 19 March 2006 (CST)
 * BTW v6 is done. -SolaPan 19:41, 19 March 2006 (CST)

SolaPan?
How come you changed name? :s 18:23, 20 March 2006 (CST)
 * Software & Technical Issues/Bugs. I don't think there is a way you can prove we are the same individual though d-: -SolaPan 18:27, 20 March 2006 (CST)

Moo.
I dunno if you ever knew about my progression template script thing, but I put it back up here. It should help with filling in the progression tables for the new skills, unless they've changed the attribute/value relationship (which would be odd). --Fyren 17:48, 24 March 2006 (CST)
 * What do I have to do with it o_O? -SolaPan 17:55, 24 March 2006 (CST)
 * If you mean "how do you use it," plug in names for the attributes (like "Healing Prayers" ) and effects (like "damage"), then the skill numbers for 0 and 15 in that attribute. It'll spit out a filled in template for the skill.  If you mean "what do I do with it knowing that," I dunno.  Tell whoever is likely to be filling in the progression tables.  I don't know who to tell and you were the first person in the recent changes I knew, so I'm telling you, heh.  --18:01, 24 March 2006 (CST)
 * And "max" is the max attribute number, so like 16 for tactics, 19 for blood, etc. It fills in N/As where they should go.  --Fyren 18:04, 24 March 2006 (CST)
 * "I don't know who to tell and you were the first person in the recent changes I knew, so I'm telling you, heh." well that answers the question I was asking... o_O""" -SolaPan 15:37, 25 March 2006 (CST)

Woo its great :D 00:21, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

Overreacting
You mentioned that you think I was overreacting with [ this comment]. To be fair, can you make a suggestion about how exactly I ought to react differently the next time I notice an anon user being called an idiot? --Rezyk 05:27, 1 April 2006 (CST)


 * [sticking nose where it doesn't belong again..] For my part (since I made a similar comment), I think you were 100% right to say that calling the anon an idiot was not good behavior, but you seemed to make a much bigger deal out of it than it needed to be (talking about it being grounds for being banned and all that). A simple "Don't you think you over-reacted there?" would have sounded more friendly..... Anyway, my 2 gold. I know I'm a newcomer and not totally aware of the social dynamics here, so sorry if I'm stepping on toes.... --Rain Over Pebbles 06:01, 1 April 2006 (CST)


 * My issue with that kind of response is that it doesn't convey as much useful info, and more importantly involves a major difference in my personal judgement. I am actually still reserving judgement on whether or not it was "good behavior" (and don't even believe that my judgement is particularly relevant), and wish I knew where you got a different idea (really -- it would be a big favor to me if anyone helped me understand where these kinds of ideas about me come from, as I suspect it is a root cause of much angst).  Also, you are not stepping on my toes; I consider this constructive criticism (although I can't say I necessarily agree with it). Thanks. --Rezyk 04:36, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmm, a tricky question here. The "overreaction" I was referring to wasn't a reaction after noticing an anon user being called an idiot, but rather a reaction after noticing a debate being described as idiotic.  If Stabber had said "anon, you are an idiot", then your reaction would be completely fair and proper.  So it was in the judgement of "whether Stabber has called someone an idiot or not" where I consider you to have overreacted.  As I have described on Stabber's talk page, an idiot debate can easily result from the participants being in the heat of things, and/or being stubborn.  It could also be a result of insufficient explanation of implications/intentions which leads to misunderstanding and undue hostility which in turn increases the heat and stubborness. -SolaPan 14:43, 1 April 2006 (CST)


 * There is some confusion here. You are talking about a debate being called idiotic, but mine was not a reaction to anything like that.  It was to a different use of the "idiot" term.  Please let me know if you still feel I overreacted. --Rezyk 04:36, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Well.. Good Behavior isn't merely a set of rules, so it is subjective. Let me ask this.. why did you go to as much trouble to emphasize that what Stabber did was worthy of a ban warning from the admins as you did? That seemed out of place in a friendly note. In fact, it actually appeared to me as being designed to taunt/chastize. I'm not making any assumptions as to whether it was intended that way or not, just saying how it sounded to me (others may disagree). I agree that Stabber stepped over a line, but I didn't see it as too terribly big of a deal. Just emotions running a little too hot. Anyway, hope this helps explains my thoughts better. --Rain Over Pebbles 23:47, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This wiki does not exist to police good social conduct. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 10:01, 4 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I need to know this: How do you get the idea that I said anything was worthy of a ban warning? From my perspective, I tried to give relevant non-subjective info (and used parentheses to de-emphasize).  My reason was because I thought it was potentially very useful, and a stern tone was used because I consider it important to be objective in these matters.  I know there is room for improvement though, and I'll try to keep your perspective in mind.  SolaPan, sorry for continuing to eat up your talk page. =)  If you want to move this discussion to mine, feel free (or ask and I'll do it).  --Rezyk 14:32, 4 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Sorry for the late responce, been distracted for a bit with work and trying to ascend in-game. The fact that you were giving the warning implied this. Given that (as I understand it) Stabber is a regular for the Wiki with a track record of being a worthwhile contributer, I can understand being upset at the message. She presumably knows how things work around here without any help. Of course, I don't know how much of her reaction was that and how much was other things that are going on. Either way, I'd just try to be more relaxed an as non-foreboding as possible if a similar incident happens again. --Rain Over Pebbles 07:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

Armour galleries
I'd advise putting noinclude tags in, armour pages now have double purge templates :p 00:57, 5 April 2006 (CDT)
 * It's not from galleries. One purge comes from the armor box template, and one is manually placed there from before the version of armor box template that comes with the purge. Just manually remove the purge link that is in the article and it'll be fine. -SolaPan 08:38, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

Spirit Area-of-Effect
Hey PanSola, I'm gathering you don't agree with my adding a more obvious link to the Spirit AoEs on thier articles? What's your objection? --Rain Over Pebbles 10:20, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

OK, I missed that you also made a link out of "range" on the pages. I'd still argue that something additional needs to be done- it's not obvious that clicking on "range" will take the user to information about that specific spirit's range, whereas with links like "nearby" or "in the area" it is. --Rain Over Pebbles 10:24, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * How about wikify "its range" and link to range, would that be better? -PanSola 10:26, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * See responce to that above :) Sorry, did two edits quickly. --Rain Over Pebbles 10:28, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Um, the second edit doesn't answer the question of whether wikifying its range to link to range would be clearer. -PanSola 10:29, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * You're right; that'll teach me to get ahead of myself in responding. Sorry about that. *ponder* It's definately better. It's not quite as explicitly spelled out as I'd like.. "its range" isn't quite as direct as "nearby", but I suppose it does the job. If someone down the line disagrees, I guess they'll try to edit it and the issue can be readdressed. I can fix it if ya like. --Rain Over Pebbles 10:39, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Up to you (-: -PanSola 10:40, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, I'll clean it up, then :) Just linking "its range" definately has more finesse, I'll grant that. Thanks PanSola. --Rain Over Pebbles 10:43, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

Image redirects
Heh, I noticed that image redirect thing also. I'm waiting for all the skill icons to be loaded before I let Stabbot redirect all the skill icons to the skill pages. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 17:41, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Hehe, all this after I found the hack to make images clicable d-: -PanSola 17:42, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

Skill cats
Please let me finish my round of edits first! We will be stepping on each other's toes otherwise. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 20:24, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm just testing something. Only going to be playing with top level and not removing anyhing. -PanSola 20:25, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

New Progression
What's going on with the new progression templates? I thought we were moving away from the "lots of little templates" and towards the "all encompassing templates". The new Progression Top/Main/Bottom (especially Bottom) seems to be going back towards the old way of doing things (old beast boxes/item boxes/skill boxes/etc...). --Rainith 14:42, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I didn't realize we were moving away from the "lots of little templates", and I don't consider 3 as being a lot. The old beast box etc were EXCESSIVE amoutns of little templates, as opposed to simply being little templates.  Anyways, my main motivation for splitting up the progression into 3 parts is because unlike Template:Progression, I can't easily upgrade the Template:Progression2,Progression3,Progression4,Progression5,Progression6,Progression7,Progression8,Progression9 and Progression10 to scale from 0 to 20 w/o editing individual articles that use them.  So since we will have to edit the articles to scale to 20 anyways, might as well switch to a more modularized system which could potentially save us some long-term trouble.
 * I am against excessive use of lots of little templates. However, when modularization makes sense, I support its use, especially if it avoids "lots of all encompassing templates". -PanSola 14:46, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Dark pact
Will this not upload? I wondered if you'd forgotten it or forgot to put the tag on it Image:Dark Pact.jpg Skuld  00:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't think this message was meant for me...
 * It's simply a missing image because Skills by Campaign doesn't list Dark Pact!!!! OMG WHO HAXXORED THAT PAGE?! &mdash; Stabber (talk) 02:28, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Just a heads up
Dunno if you're following User talk:Savio or not, but there is an extended discussion of damage and damage types there, and as the damage article is mostly your creation... &mdash; Stabber (talk) 17:03, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Speaking in Tongues
I like the language boxes that you appropriated from wikipedia, but the links in them don't work because they use the wikipedia namespace which is also how mediawiki directs stuff to wikipedia. My guess is that to make the links work you'll have to change them to use the full URL of the page. i.e. instead of near-native use near-native. --Rainith 17:50, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


 * or Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Babel/Levels &mdash; Stabber (talk) 17:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Ironically, the english link is the only one that doesn't work, becaouse I forgot to double wikipedia it. -PanSola 17:59, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Hold off on deleting the skill pngs for a while longer please
My bot needs them to correct the incoming links. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 00:05, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * aye
 * Also, you should use the handy delete links from User:Stabber/skill icons when you do start deleting them (not yet!). Will save you a lot of hunting around. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 00:10, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm just looking at candidates for deletion right now, cuz I like to keep that relatively empty. Letting the skill categories sit a few more days before deleting them. -PanSola 00:11, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * On that topic, there might be a need for a few reversions, as it seems that stuff like Enchantment Spell are actually capitalized that way in-game in skill descs. That is, Category:Enchantment spells might have to be moved back to Category:Enchantment Spells. Aargh! &mdash; Stabber (talk) 00:13, 13 April 2006 (CDT)


 * By the way, you can delete the pngs now, as I have fixed all pages that referred to them to use the new images. Once again, you can use the easy delete links from User:Stabber/skill icons/core and User:Stabber/skill icons/prophecies if you want, as it will save you a lot of hunting around. Enjoy! &mdash; Stabber (talk) 03:34, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

Promotion?!
Wow! You've been promoted to admin! Congrats! That was a very subdued promotion. I guess that means you carry the bags now in the admin gym. :) Welcome aboard. --Karlos 04:24, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * lol I missed that as well, Grats, very deserving =) --Xeeron 05:10, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Try to keep it on the downlow d-: -PanSola 10:34, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, finally someone else to clean out Category:Candidates for deletion. :P  Congrats.  --Rainith 10:35, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

Changing status to sysop is considered a "promotion" in these parts, not a sentence to a life of drudgery? Huh. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 17:40, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

Babel
jaw? Skuld  10:30, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * They bite, so becareful when you go swimming -PanSola 10:46, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * What is the sound of one jaw biting? &mdash; Stabber (talk) 18:20, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * You volunteering to find out? -PanSola 18:40, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Javanese language this one? tell me! Skuld  06:00, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * "Jaw" actually is "Written Japanese". Nothing too sexy. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 06:46, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Hey, written japanese IS sexy! -PanSola 10:36, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

I posted this on the Template_talk:Babel, but wanted to post it here before you got too far along in case it requires a change. I noticed on my user page that you corrected the language used from "eng" to "en"; is there a reason to prefer ISO 639-1 over the ISO 639-2 codes? I had expected the newer standard to be the one in use; but I'm not familiar enough with the ISO community to know if the ISO-2 simply never caught on. --161.88.255.140 14:00, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Between en and eng we should stick to one. I simply see mroe ppl using en as opposed to eng, so decided it's easier that way.  I don't know much about the ISO politics/trends either. -PanSola 14:03, 18 April 2006 (CDT)