Talk:Hell's Precipice (mission)/Archive 1

Addition
I just added a number 10 tip about using Greater Conflagration and Winter. Worked out for me, since I finished the mission on my first time. Luckily I also had a fantastic team which didn't leroy or anything else stupid --BeeD 20:29, 7 February 2007 (CST)

This tip really works, i just did mission with henchies. With winter and greater conflagration all monsters seems to die very quick, specially fist and hands, didnt have time to use signet.


 * Oh what? You mean that tip wasn't already on the mission page? Madness! Build:R/any Winter Ranger >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Flesh Golem Bug
I am not sure what the statement about Flesh Golem having "bugged" damage against the Lich really means. I just killed the Lich with a group of 6 human players with 2 of my heroes. I was the Minion Master and did not notice any unreasonably high damage being done to the Lich by my Fleshie. I could not experiment more with my Fleshie because he unfortunately died and I waited too long to resurrect him, so his body disappeared. Has this "bug" been fixed? Has anyone experimented more with an MM? Dracon 00:49, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * removed it, plus merged some of the other tips into one and made 2 sections for it. Didn't really serve any purpose the way it was imo. --Erszebet 14:29, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Killing Lich
"You must kill him on the very center of the bloodstone to charge the Soul Batteries and close the Door of Komalie. If you kill him anywhere else, even a single step off the center, he will revive with full health."

This is a fake. The lich will revive full health three times, period. If someone feels like making the change in the article, I dont have much time right now. If none, I will do it later.
 * No, your information is fake. I have successfully killed him two separate times on the first try out of 3 times total doing this mission.  Just because you 'think' you killed him on the center does not mean you did.  You could have been lagging a little and he was in the lava at the time the last blow was delt or he was just outside the inner circle.  Pay closer attention and organize your group better next time you do this mission. | 68.226.60.106 10:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I am certain that I have killed him after one try, two tries and three tries. I am not as certain where exactly he has to be. There were times when he died the first time but was not exactly in the center and times when we thought we nailed him and he popped right back. I do believe right now that the center of the Bloodstone is the most logical theory. But there is no question that he dies in less attempts due to some factor. --Karlos 12:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless, I'm fairly sure that killing him the third time always results in a win regardless of where he is. If anyone's had to kill him four or more times, feel free to correct me.


 * Just finished mission (with 4 people oh lord it took forever). First two times we killed him two of the soul batteries lit up (each time) as he wasn't in centre. Third time was final death and he seemed like he was in the middle. - BeXoR 02:01, 22 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Finished the mission, with henchmen, and I found that I had to kill him twice, once he stood outsice the bloodstone, and when I killed him, he respawned inside the circle, and we had to kill him again, when we killed him for the second time, he died in the centre of the circle, which ended the mission. Also, I found that henchmen can target the purple flying orbs that he uses, perhaps just an error, but they targeted and killed the orbs he was using, while I continued to fire at the lich, occassionally shooting one or two when I used barrage. Obsidian The Great 02:14, 31 October 2006 (CST)


 * Just finished the mission with a group of humans. We killed the lich once, and he was nowhere near the center (not even on the bloodstone whatsoever), and it finished the mission. I find it highly unlikely that it was lag, as multiple people in chat were directing people to kill him on the bloodstone, and one person drew on the compass as well. Something very, very strange is going on here. Apeiron 22:58, 21 December 2006 (CST)


 * The same thing just happened to me. Killed the Lich one time, and he was standing in the lava. Mission complete! It's strange, though, I've cleared the mission multiple times now and this is the first time I've only had to kill him once. Every other time it was twice or three times, somewhere on or near the center. Entropy 00:31, 31 December 2006 (CST)


 * More research data: Did this mission again with a friend, we got a mission completion on only one kill. Lich wasn't exactly on the center but he was at least on the stone. Entropy 18:08, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I've added a dispute tag to that section section of the article. I also cleaned up the text around it to describe the different Lich death circumstances in dispute. The main thing I wanted to fix was that the text directly contradicted itself a couple times. My own experience last night was that three deaths in the circle but not at the center completed the mission, but I was not watching the soul batteries to see if some of them were activated on each death. — HarshLanguage 18:09, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Howdy. After reading this discussion, one tiny thought came up... Could it be possible that the times you have to kill the Lich Lord is actually depending on what you have done before during this mission. For example killing a lot of other creatures makes killing the Lich easier or something else like that.Fall Satyrian 09:47, 24 January 2007 (CST)Fall Satyrian


 * It just took me 3 kills of the Lich to finish the level. The first two were in the exact centre and the last he was half way between the middle and edge of the stone. Perhaps its related to the amount of time you spend doing the mission? I know I was afk for a while in the middle of it (I was with henchies). -arual 14:24, 28 January 2007 (CST)


 * Just killed the lich while on a skill capping run. Took killing him 2 times.  First was out of the circle and charged 4 of the 6 batteries, second was in the circle, dunno if it was exact center or not.  --Rainith 23:04, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * I killed the lich with henchies some weeks ago, took me only one kill in the almost center of the stone. I didnt do bonus but i killed almost every possible monster you can see on the map without bonus. So i pretty much think that the number of kills is completely random.

Maybe everyone is overlooking a very obvious mechanic of how to kill the Lich. My thoughts are: Kill him right on the stone and it's all over. Otherwise he'll come back and you get another shot at killing him. The 3rd time is the last try, even if you don't kill him on the stone it's game over. Pretty simple right? 132.203.83.38 00:07, 8 March 2007 (CST)

I have killed the Litch a great many times in this mission (at least all my 10 PvE chars, and innumerable other times helping guildies since I've been an officer in a large PvE guild since summer 05). In all that time I've only had about 3 or so of the "dead centre" kill-in-one type of kills, these were well spaced out over time, with more than a year between the first and the most recent, so I've no reason to believe that updates have every changed the mechanics of Litch-killing. The rest of the wins have been got by the "3 kills anywhere and he's dead" method, and for that method you don't have to kill him in any particular place, as long as he'd died twice before that. My supposition is that the "centre of the bloodstone" is a point location, not an area, and I have experienced killing him in what I thought was the exact centre only to see him bounce back up sometimes. It may also be helpful to point out that all my kill-in-one events occurred on the first kill of the litch, I have never been able to make a second kill count for the kill in one, no matter how well positioned he appears to be, and it may be that if the centre condition is not met in the first kill, it lapses and you're then required to kill him the full three times.


 * Here is the true facts summed up from everything above:


 * The Lich can take anywhere from one to three "deaths" before he truly dies.
 * Where he dies in relation to the Bloodstone is irrelevant.
 * It is possible to get a one-death win with the Lich being anywhere - even off the Stone.
 * It's possible to get a win after two deaths.
 * No instances have been recorded of a win taking more than three deaths.
 * And it's that simple! I hope there is never any more confusion. :S [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Maybe the Lich gets infected by some private, unseeable condition when he gets on the bloodstone. Such as he goes on the bloodstone, gets off, but the condition's time is still on him. Just a thought.

I was in a group the other day and we killed Lich once but he came back alive again so we carried on but got cained by hand of the titans etc the group wasn't brill. SO i left when i came back i was in Droknars forge and it showed id completed the mission which as far as i know i hadnt. Maybe you kill him but the mission doesn't close all the time and works by the third try.

Here is a therory; maybe on his first death just killing him lights up 2 bloodstones making it take 3 deaths, killing him in a gd spot will light up 4 taking 2 deaths and in an excelent position it will light up 6 aka 1 kill. dont hold me on this coz im still in augry rock (first time playing) nd hav no idea about this but it occured to me so...tnx Wolfman

That is certainly interesting. I know that a three-kill run does do that, lighting up 2 or so per death, and that a one-kill run lights them all up at once. But I don't remember the last time it was a two-kill run, if it was exactly 4 batteries that recharged...if it was, then I think you may be right. Different positions correspond to different amounts of batteries, and no matter what way you do it, eventually they all light up and he's dead then. I wonder if it is possible to get one, three, or five lit up at once...or if it only counts in even numbers. Or if you can kill him and get zero lit up? It's too bad getting to the Lich for these kinds of tests takes awhile and isn't something you feel like repeating over and over for research... (T/C) 18:30, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It honestly seems completely random. I'm going to run through the mission today so I can probably do some testing; I wish it didn't take so long though. The Hobo 16:41, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Another theory. I killed the lich in one kill. The lich was not on the stone but most of the team (henches and heroes) were in the center - I flagged them here. May be this is what Ruric means? EugeneBi


 * Just for the record, I just beat the Lich for the first time in two kills. First definately wasn't on the bloodstone; second was borderline. He was a walkover after Rurik nearly wiped my hench/hero party. 82.0.165.189 04:24, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Yes, it appears as though it IS random. I've done it numerous times, usually finished mish after 1 kill. However, I just tried it in HM...had to kill him 3 times, i was so pissed lol. and each time he was within 2 pixels of the dead center...24.186.207.198 23:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Randomness seems to me to be the last resort for an answer when talking about a game. I just read through all of these posts and one in particular stood out: the one saying that the mission was performed with henchies and they targeted the orbs of light (he was killed first time). Perhaps these orbs absorb some of the energy when he dies and as a result do not fully charge the batteries. If, on the other hand, you destroy the orbs, all of the energy of his death goes to recharging the batteries. I, like another individual before me, have not run the mission - I'm now on shiverpeaks. However, from what I've read, it seems that the orbs may play a key role (or perhaps how fast or slow you kill him - don't remember seeing anyone mention ETUD (estimated time until death)) Moist Derv  12:16, 20 December 2007


 * If we don't know what causes the difference, then from our perspective, it might as well be randomness. We do know, however, that whether or not he's in the center of the bloodstone is not the critical factor.  But this misses the point.  The hard thing is not to kill the lich, but to get him to kill you without being flagrantly stupid.  The lich fight is among the easiest of the mission.  Quizzical 18:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

He Does Not Have To be In The Center Or Even On The Rock thru all updates.

One Lich-Death mission completions have varied over the years - 3 is more frequent, but 2 is the average. Essentially people try it a few times and come back and try it again for mapping, capping, character completions, etc and surmise that this constitutes a statistical random sampling. But similar to the acquisition of the bonus from the seer quest updates, changes may be effected for a short period of time and then modified again without making it in the "changes" documentation schedules. E.g. The bad spawn, where the group on the hill attacks the seer as soon as your party enters the area is currently about 1:14, but has been subjugated to 1:4 occurences at least once in the last 6 months and seen this level modified 3 times in a week. Bug, oversight, or relentless "twiiking" by level management - suspect the latter. Dragon Devil 11:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Spam Filter
I changed the spelling of the bonus curse 'Sh*th Mal Hacto!' to 'S-h-i-t-h Mal Hacto!' so it would allow the page to pass the spam filter on saving. Queen of Spades 14:22, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Pool of lave spawn
Contradictory notes in the bonus description. The first tip says the pool of lava will spawn three bosses. Then, the last paragraph says it will spawn two. Does anyone know which is correct?
 * Actually 3 Armaggedon Lords spawn, not two, just trying to help Obsidian The Great 06:00, 30 October 2006 (CST)


 * On my last run the three Armaggedon Lords spawned, but the lava pool also spawned two bosses.

There are three bosses appearing in the area (not counting the Armageddon Lords), but only two of them spawn from the lava pool; the third is already there from the start. Copperthorn 22:15, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Recent Run
I would like to say i love this wiki, but I'm sad to say that the infomation on this article about the lich is horably inaccurte. While the all facts on how to kill the lich requires further testing I'm 100% sure that killing him in the absolute center of the circle DOSE NOT finish the mission. My party (of 4 :P) had to kill him 3 times to win, each and every time we killed him in the absoulute center of the blood stone. The only question is, can you kill him off the stone 3 times and still win? --Cantspel (sorry for the spelling :P)

Sefog: Killing him in the centre does kill him, sometimes, when you kill him after he has moved, he appears to stand in the middle, but is standing on the edge. The best way to fix this is to get your party to run out of the area and re engage the lich, as he travels directly to the centre if there are no players to attack.


 * Just to add a note here, when I killed him last week, I ended up killing him two times before he was dead dead. The second and final time when I killed him, he did not appear to be in the center.  --Rainith 16:09, 11 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Quick note: I have completed this mission MANY times, and I can assure you that it IS possible to kill the Lich in one try (I did it last night)

Superfluous "tip"
Removed the following from the Notes section: "If you are having trouble finding a good group, you may consider using henchmen to complete the mission. A good group consists of: Mhenlo, Lina, Little Thom, Devona, Dunham, Eve, and Aidan." O...kay... Well, that goes without saying for all missions, so why single this one out? Superfluous, pointless comment. 89.240.227.230 03:45, 12 December 2006 (CST)


 * LoL. Captain Obvious strikes again. 144.132.238.126 00:50, 29 December 2006 (CST)

i just did it with 3 people ><

Invincible Team Glitch
When i did this mission with my ranger there was a glitch that caused me to sink into the ground about shin deep that stopped me from moving and taking damage. Soon after this some of my team members died so i rebirthed them to me but this caused them to stand on my head and not to take any damage or move. As most of us were rangers and elementalists we killed the seer and completed the mission.

Im sure this was just luck or a very bad glitch and has probably been removed and cannot happen again. I was just lucky.

It isn't just luck. It is possible to walk into walls and kill monsters that are standing under the bridge your standing on while you are using sword attacks. You just need to know where these places are, but i assure you Canta is full of them. I found a few in Prophecies, and none sofar in Nightfall. BugExploiter 14 June 2007

That mechanic is completely unrelated to this apparent glitch.


 * These are not necessarily glitches. The reason for being able to attack things on a bridge that you're standing under is because Guild Wars has no height check, only 2D. This means that if you're standing under someone, game mechanics will think you're close enough for mellee so its no problem.--Ryve 00:35, 06 December 2008 (UTC+1)

Earth Damage
I might be crazy but the Lich seemed to be particularly weak to Earth Damage. I also did this mission twice pretty much in a row (late 2/18 early 2/19), and Lich died away from stone both times. Mission ended no problem.


 * It's been shown that the Lich is weak to Fire and Cold damage, so I wouldn't be surprised. And yes, it's also been shown that the Lich can die off the stone. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:40, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Slowing the Lich and other Hell
I just finished this mission minutes ago and wanted to add a little successful tip to share. I used Ice Prison, along with a couple other earth damage skills and water skills to slow the Lich down. I found that slowing him down really improved how fast he dies (also, it took my party to kill him 3 times, on and off the center of the bloodstone).

I'm thinking that for those of you who are impatient and like to yell at other party members, considering having casters who can slow the Lich and the other fire creatures down is a major plus. It allows other players to snatch a few seconds of repose from constant skill or spell usage.


 * Erm...how does a snare help speed up kills? The Lich doesn't move, and Ice Prison does nothing to impede skill/spell usage. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

h Mal Hacto
As you aproach the part where the paths split (See main map) some Burning Titans and the Boss shout "h Mal Hacto" as they come down the slope towards you. Has anyone else sen this and any idea what it means? Demonica the Cursed 08:33, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The fact that it dashes it out is pretty funny. On one target that I sometimes feel the need to call, it says, "I am attacking ed Cleric!" Priceless! -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 01:59, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "Shith Mal Hacto!" It only does the ---'s if you chat filter is on. Which it shouldn't be. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

i hate that shout skill...like every time i forget about it and get owned by 10 little sparks. does that boss always use the shout or is it only on occasion? Oh another thought, is this a skill by chance? or is it just dialog? :-)


 * Just dialogue. I believe (never tested) that even if you were to charge up and eliminate that boss and the Burning Titan with him, the Sparks would still come running anyways. It is always used, as soon as you get into range. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Change to Rurik behavior
It used to be that after the cutscene where Undead Prince Rurik appeared, he would stay on top of the hill with his two Sparks and wait for you to attack. But now, he will charge down the hill and attack you instead, with no provocation. He drags the Sparks with him as well, making for a tough fight - since you'll have at least four Hand of the Titans to deal with as well.

Additionally, it used to be that if you did not skip the cutscene, four Hands would rush you, and four would retreat behind the other side of the hill. This no longer seems to be the case. Four will still attack, but the other four may or may not run away. I've had all eight come and attack at once before.

Lastly, it used to be that if you skip the scene, some Hands would end up on the hill with Rurik, waiting for aggro. This no longer happens, now even if you skip, they'll be down there and charge you.

I don't have any idea when these changes were made but they wiped me a few times at least >.> The new best strategy is to pull a retreat right after the scene (skip or not), so as to drop the aggro of either Rurik and Sparks or Titans. Only a very skilled party with good Monks could survive an all-out assault by two Sparks of the Titans, eight Hands of the Titans, and Undead Prince Rurik. (T/C) 15:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * This new behavior must have been a very recent update, since my necro completed Hell's about 2 weeks ago. I skipped the cutscene and basically nothing moved until I aggro'ed it. --8765 16:00, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It must be a very, very, very recent update, 'cause I finished this mission yesterday (see history, added some stuff) and he just stood there on top of his hill. I didn't skip the cutscene, and four hands rushed to me, other four ran away propbably because I backed off. --Erszebet 16:28, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I swear that that's what happened to me just two or three days ago. I don't have any clue anymore what is going on... >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:35, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

I just did the mission a few minutes ago (6th April, by my timezone anyway) and I havn't had anything of that sort. They didn't come out at all till we attacked. --58.84.172.16 11:54, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess Entropy got really unlucky :p I reverted his edit but added a small note about it that it can happen, everybody happy I hope :) --Erszebet 12:51, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Entropy's a girl, just so you know --Gimmethegepgun 18:25, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

I did it yesterday, and he didnt come down til we entered his aggro Eric368 12:41, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I just did Hells today... twice... and both times we skipped the cut scene and nothing aggro'd till we pulled it. perhaps you were lagging a bit and one of your party members walked to far forward and was able to get back to the group before anyone noticed... bringing "hitchhikers" with them..?

Well i guess its just in the nature of Rurik to be captain suicidal, Federal Panda

Bonus
Yesterday and this morning I've been trying to do the bonus, following the guidelines here. But everytime I try, I don't even have time to properly *lure* the Sparks and Ashen Hulks away! The moment I approach even them, they run at the Seer like their life depends on it, and the bonus is ruined. I have tried this from both directions, even tried to shoot them with a flatbow. Has anyone gotten a better trick then 'take out the guys in front first'? If not, I think someone should include a sentence with 'take a good prot monk.' Sidar 03:15, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

EDIT: Never mind, I've gotten the bonus now. Turned out it depends on the spawns- sometimes the whole group of Hulks and Sparks rushes to the Seer no matter what you do, and sometimes they don't, depending on where they spawned. Sidar 04:28, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Not 'Never Mind', the article is incorrect. There should be a note about them rushing the Seer while the article claims they ignore him.


 * I ran the mission yesterday with Heroes & Henchmen in Normal Difficulty, and while I didn't have any enemy mobs rush the Seer, I did have to rush TO the seer in order to save her, contrary to what the article says. The seer was fighting one Titan and while I'm not sure if the titan was fighting back, the burning damage was more than sufficient to almost kill the Seer.  I was barely able to keep the seer alive long enough to clear the area.


 * Yet at the beginning of the month I did the mission with a team of Humans. They did not want to run the bonus and deliberately let The Seer die.  We cleared the forward area and watched the seer die a slow burning death which took about a minute to a single Burning Titan.  In that case, the Titan was definitely not fighting back.


 * It does appear to be the 'luck of the spawn'. I think it does warrant some changes to the main article, but I don't have time to do it properly right now. HolyCrusader 05:52, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Endgame rewards
what are the rewards at the end of the game once you have beaten this campaign? Weapons, armour? I need to know this...Andokool12 12:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No you want to know but i'll tell you, when you beat this campain you can play the titan quests to save the world from the titans, i'll tell you know its not easy, also now hard mode will be usable for this campain.24.77.61.194 19:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Oh ok, then what's that armour from i think it's endgame armour, that looks like ascalon armour but a little more.... Leathery. Same type of helmet but armour is more like gladiator armour. Is it from Endgame Factions or Endgame NF?Andokool12 12:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Look here -Ezekiel 04:31, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

There's no item like the Amulet of the Mists at the end of Prophecies. There isn't a material benefit to finishing this campaign like there is for the other two. Also, there aren't any armor crafters that can only be reached by finishing the last mission. In short, there's not a good reason to finish this campaign unless you just feel like it.

Tip 4 on the prof specifc tips
seems bs.. when you cap an elite with an elite in you skill bar you do not get both elites... you ar left with an empty skill slot (but you do capture the skill). I'm not sure what patch update made this not work.. but it defently dosn't. So, I'd like to remove this tip.
 * You seem to have never captured an elite while having one equipped. It does work. It does not leave you with an empty skill slot until you enter a different explorable, such as when re-entering an outpost and/or entering a new explorable area. --Kale Ironfist 03:44, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

You definitely have not capped an elite while having another equipped. A-Net has not changed this feature of the game. You keep both elites until you zone. The only instance where what you're saying would be considered even remotely applicable is when you cap an elite, have two, then zone from one explorable area to another, and are left with an empty slot.66.66.71.57 04:37, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

there IS one instance where capping an elite with another elite on your bar will leave you with an empty space on your bar without zoning or going to town. It has little to do with Hells Precipice or even prophecies but if you are in a wurm in Nightfall and cap an elite, that spot will change to the corresponding wurm skill for that slot and when you are ejected from the wurm will be a blank spot on your bar.... just a little trivia.. :/

Not sure what you are all talking about, but I have capped two skills, more than once....and, in addition, capped an elite skill with one already in my bar.....they remained in the skill bar until i returned to post.

Added Hard Mode Section
I've only added extra relevant info I regard are useful as a monk and, very likely there may be better skills or tactics that improves over it, but I've managed to complete hard mode on the first try without any party members dying. However we did bring 3 monks in total (2 heroes and myself) and I wager had highly experienced party members that gave the extra edge. Reichi Aryon 19:04, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The tips for the monk(s) in Hard Mode are good. I just completed the mission in Hard Mode with just Heros and Henchmen.  I used 2 Monk heros and one Hench monk.  I made one Monk hero a Protection monk and the other a Healing monk.  Both had Frigid Armor, and I used Frigid armor for myself as well.  I was a Warrior/Elementalist with a Warrior interruption build using Skull Crack. ImperialMike 10:48, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Just finished Hard Mode with hench/heros: 3 monks(1 hench), 1 nec hench, 1 water ele, 2 war hench, 1 domination mes. Took a while, but the saving factor that made it possible was LIFE BARRIER. With life barrier, the mission seemed relatively easy, albeit long. 66.32.253.192 21:10, 6 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I did this mission in Hard Mode on my first try with 1 hench monk, 1 hero monk, 3 Water eles(me and 2 heroes), 2 mellee henchmen and Eve(blood henchmen).--Ryve 00:25, 06 December 2008 (UTC+1)

I toned down the HM section of the article. What it said about everybody bringing loads of defensive skills with only a couple for attacking (?!) is completely ridiculous. And while I agree that this is pretty much the only HM mission that could use three monks, taking more than three is redundant (the article said to take AT LEAST three :-S ). And I do understand that people might not have heroes to utilize here, but that doesn't change the situation much. As for myself, I practically walked through the mission without anybody dying or even coming close (2 players, 6 heroes). We took Pretty much everything else was for killing. Johh 17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * W with Endure Pain and Lion's Comfort.
 * R/Mo with Broad Head Arrow and loads if interrupts.
 * N/Mo with Well of Power and Well of Blood.
 * E/Mo with Ward Against Harm.
 * E/Mo with Ward Against Elements, Frigid Armor.
 * 3 monks with a variety of healing/protection.


 * And honestly, that's way too much defense... I've walked through the entire game, including all hardmode content, with very little alteration to the following build:


 * Ursan
 * MM with Splinter/A Rage
 * 2x SS with Kaolai
 * Earth Hench
 * Ele/Nec Hench
 * 2x Monk Hench

The key is simply aggro control... ( Talk • Contribs) 17:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall beating this HM pre-eotn with a warrior frenzying at every opportunity. As ruricu said, aggro control. Lord of all tyria 17:51, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for agreeing. Johh 18:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Healers" doesn't necessarily mean "monks". In many cases (including here), a restoration ritualist and two monks will be better healing capabilities than three monks.  A recommendation of bringing exactly three healers is rather redundant, as it's not specific to the mission.  Bringing fewer than three healers in any hard mode mission with a party size of 8 is inadviseable.  Sure, you may be able to beat some that way (especially if the rest of the group has fairly defensive builds), but you'll have a rougher time of it than if you had more healing.
 * Note that all of you are assuming a stronger party than a lot of players will have. If you have multiple competent players and the rest of the spots a reasonable hero build, then yeah, three healers is plenty.  If you go with the ursanway cheat code, then observing that cheat codes work doesn't mean the mission is trivial if you don't use them.  It is better to write an article that will work for a relatively weak party:  henchmen/heroes, the player a class that doesn't fit the mission that well, no meaningful rank in title tracks, and no consumables.
 * While it isn't necessary to bring more than three healers, if someone is stuck on the mission, bringing an extra healer is likely to fix the problem, at least if he was already bringing ward against harm. It's pretty much impossible to have insufficient damage in this mission, as eight healers will probably have all the damage you need; 7 healers and a water elementalist will certainly be far more than enough.  Quizzical 19:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The note about using ritualists is spot-on, I guess I use "monk" in much the same meaning as you use "healer", which is my fault naturally. But I very strongly disagree with everything else you say in the first paragraph.
 * I'd like to express that it's generally inadvisable to EVER take more than two healers in an 8-man party (yes, even in HM, even with using some henchmen, even with not having "fairly defensive builds" on others, etc). I haven't completed all the HM missions in Factions yet, but at least in Proph/Nf there's no other exception to this rule than maybe this mission.
 * I am fairly certain that you could indeed complete this mission with an all-defensive (all-monk?) team (god knows I will never try to find out). And you perhaps could even make me say that it's "the safest" way (although I feel like objecting to that too). But it sure isn't neither "the best" nor "the easiest" way. I think taking an extra hour to complete this mission with 8 healers/defensives gives you "a rougher time", as you put it, than taking only a reasonable amount of healing and MAYBE having one or two deaths in the process, if you really don't know your way around PvE yet.
 * Also, this is probably not the best place to make this argument, but I'll throw it in here anyway - I'd say it's ill-advised to ever take more than one healer in a 6-man party. People tend to usually take two to make themselves feel more comfortable I guess, especially in the Crystal Desert missions. I've helped a lot of people in these places and got a lot of surprised feedback about how things are easier with less healers. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one exception to this rule as well - when vanquishing the Sand Elementals in Prophet's Path and Vulture Drifts you could probably do better with a second healer. Cheers and good night. Johh 01:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As you describe it, in addition to three pure monks, you took 4 characters using monk secondaries. It's that quite a spectacular violation of your own advice on never taking more than two healers?  We might be using different definitions of "healers" here.  I count a healing monk, protection monk, or restoration ritualist as a healer.  I also count a motivation paragon as half a healer, as well as any character using some skills from the aforementioned healer categories in addition to more offensive skills.
 * Another possible discrepancy is use of the usual crutches for incompetent players: consumables and pve-only skills, especially Ursan Blessing.  If you're assuming that players use those and I'm assuming that players don't, we could reach very different conclusions about the difficulty of the same mission.  If you're claiming that, without using these, you cruised through The Frost Gate, The Wilds, Sanctum Cay, Elona Reach, and Zen Daijun in hard mode with only one character in the group using any divine favor, healing prayers, protection prayers, restoration magic, or motivation skills and without using outlandish tactics, I'd call you a liar.  I don't think that's what you're claiming, though.
 * In case we really are talking about the same thing, there are trade-offs between offensive and defensive capabilities. Go too heavily toward offense and you can't stay alive.  Go too heavily toward defense and you can't kill some mobs.  There is an interval between them, and my basic recommendation is, don't go too close to the edge.  Even if you could beat a hard mode mission while perilously short on healing, adding an extra healer will greatly improve your chances of success.  Even if you would have succeeded with a more offensive group, it might not have been faster, as recovery from a near-wipe takes a while.
 * Many players have the idea that they're all offense, and someone else can take care of defense. It is very rare for a player to lean too strongly toward defense, and have insufficient damage.  Indeed, there are only a few missions in the game where it is possible to lean too heavily toward defense to complete the mission with the bonus or master's reward unless one goes way out of his way to do so.  Quizzical 02:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason why everybody had a monk secondary in my party is that this was my very first try of this mission in HM and as I did not quite know what to expect, I put a monk hard rez on every character except myself (W). Nobody ended up using them and I guess it was redundant to type the "/Mo" out here.
 * I do not want to be called a liar, but I am indeed claiming that I completed almost all of the 6-man party content on all three continents in HM with one healer and without major problems (remembered another exception besides the Sand Elementals -> the Fire Imps in Southern Kryta can be a real annoyance). I don't think a third of a party should hardly ever be focused on healing. I'm never going to put that into any wiki articles though, so we don't have to argue about that.
 * I like your definition of the interval between the offensive and definition extremes and I guess i really like playing on the offensive edge of that. But I think I'm right in feeling that the mindset of "take as little offensive power as possible and only as much as necessary and fill all the rest up with defense" should not be advocated in wiki articles, because that's excatly what the article was doing. Am I right?
 * Oh and by the way, my main character is a warrior primary (for whom I'm doing the guardian/vanquisher titles) and I do not use Ursan Blessing or have never assumed others to. That's a hell of a boring way to play. Johh 13:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Fridgid Armor
I used it on my Assassin and i still got the burning from the titans. Can anyone else recheck?

Ashen Hulks use Strip Enchantment. Could that be your problem? King Neoterikos 21:26, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

winter?
I've not noticed that they are weaker when I used Winter. My fire magic was doing the same damage. At least to the Titans. Is there something I am missing or are the enemies not really weaker to cold damage than fire damage?&mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:37, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Unless something changed recently, they should be weaker to cold damage. I'll check this out tonight if I have time. BigAstro 16:44, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * On an unrelated note, where would a random meteor hit come from if I'm only near a warrior fist of the titans? I don't see anything about an environment effect but something called meteor hit me, interrupt and kd. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:59, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The volcano spews out rocks that hit certain spots and look like meteors. It's kind of an environmental effect. --Macros 17:05, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I tested it with my fire ele and Winter doesn't appear to have any effect on damage now. I did this mission at most 2 months ago and the titans were indeed weak to cold damage at the time. BigAstro 20:00, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I have tested this somewhat thoroughly and I figured out that Ice spells do indeed do more damage but fire spells do not do more damage when winter is active. I don't know if this intentional or a glitch, but it doesn't seem normal. Ryve 1:03, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, what this means is that it is Winter itself which is bugged, not the Hell's Precipice or the Titans. Bad news for Eskimo teams everywhere... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:17, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Did this mish 4 times now all heroes/hench and did not notice ANY difference using winter/greater coflagration or not :/ ... Also Melonni did WAY more dmg with Balthazar avatar than with Grenth(cold dmg) regardless of winther or not. Also, cold weapons did less dmg than vampiric, regardless of Winther. Bugged Winther or changes to titan resistance ??? Or just my bad ? 8-) I used main Ranger/any.. And I never even saw the dam bonus-starter on the map or with +alt, grrr... Trying one more time to RUSH to the seer to check if it pops earlier than guide stated now (Vivi Morgenstierne ingame)(july 21. 2007)
 * The reason for Melonni to deal more damage with AoB than AoG is probably the natural armor of the Titans. (seeing as Rodgorts invocation acts like a superpowered flare without a damage increase on a Burning Titan)

Winter - The definition of winter says it turns ALL elemental damage to cold. So, translation, if you use fire, or earth, or air, it all becomes cold damage, so it really should not matter if ur ele uses fire; if u have winter, the fire damage will become cold? Correct? or not ?
 * That's the way it's SUPPOSED to be, but it seems to be glitched --Gimmethegepgun 23:09, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

The final result is this, trailed and tested: Winter does indeed change all damage into cold damage. This has been tested with spinal shivers and mantra of frost. What surprises people is the fact that winter does not change anything to the damage. Damage is calculated first, then converged to cold damage to see if anything like the before named skills would do anything. If you have mantra of frost active with 40% damage while winter is up, you will indeed receive 40% less damage, but if you have 60 armor normal and 100 armor against cold, you will still get damaged by elemental damage other then cold as if you are wearing 60 armor while winter is up. There is no glitch in Hells Precipice or the Titans, the only reason this is discussed here is because this is the only place this skill is really used. We're still not 100% sure if this is all intentional or a glitch, but my guess is intentional, or at least a glitch that they thought actually turned out better.--Ryve 00:18, 06 January 2009 (UTC+1)


 * If Winter no longer works to increase damage dealt to Titans, then we don't need a long tip saying to bring Winter, then explaining that it doesn't work, and then another long tip saying to bring Greater Conflagration implicitly assuming that Winter does work. As such, I deleted both tips and the bug comment.  Someone can add them back if using Winter actually works at some point in the future.  Quizzical 09:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That has been my experience in the last couple of runs - it appears to be a change to the Titans themselves, as even cold damage spells have reduced damage against all forms of the Titans. My 65 dmg Shard Storm did only about 40 some damage the last run through. Even the Spark of the Titans receive a few points less damage with direct spells. HanokOdbrook 14:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Cold damage is less effective than it used to be. Just did this recently, and brought Snow Storm.  I wasn't hitting as low as your listed/actual damage was, but it definitely wasn't hitting for list damage.  Certain monsters took more damage than others.  And there is still the bug where winter does NOT convert Elementalist spells to cold damage.  Bringing a fire nuker yields barely any damage at all.  Aggro [[Image:Isk8.png]]  Sk8  14:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

How to Solo the mission and bonus with Heroes+Henchmen combo:
(Removed by Author.) --MagickElf666 23:30, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This mission was never difficult, even with henchmen only, and back in the days of proph-only. Now, we got heros, new skills, flag commands, etc. Unfortunately, there are still people who may find such a guide useful to them. Either way, this guide is a little overkill on detail. --8765 18:14, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, definitely overkill as written. A lot of those points are either general tips for the mission or general tips for H&H (or extensions of them: "flag H&H away from enemies then pull enemies to them" is a strategy that everyone using H&H should know).  Also, there's nothing special about any specific builds - I did it with two SF/interrupt eles and a Barrage/Winter ranger for heroes, letting Mhenlo and Lina take care of healing, with Devona as the tank and Claude as the battery.  And I did it this way on both my warrior and my mesmer.

I dont see Claude listed as a henchman in Hell's Precipice...did you mean Dunham??


 * Condense it down to a few important strategies/tips for H&H that are specific to this mission, then it might have a place in the article. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:49, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't know if there is anything in the above walkthrough that isn't already in the article one way or another. I don't think the hero setup is anything special either. There are too many effective ways to set up heroes for this mission to start adding specific builds. Also, MagickElf, the bosses spawn randomly in this mission. BigAstro 19:20, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The 4 times I did this mission in a row (mainly to unlock Aura of the Lich, Hundred Blades, Greater Conflagration, and the first time to complete the mission itself) I got the same exact spawns. Maybe I just got lucky, but The boss after the seer was Always the ranger, the last boss coming out of the lava was always a necro, and there was always a warrior boss patrolling the Portals. But yeah, it is very detailed. I tend to do that a lot.. I decided to remove it, so it wouldn't take up valuable Wiki space. --MagickElf666 23:30, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


 * If you have heroes, then all you really need to know is that defense wins. Well, I guess you also need to know to get out of the way of the h mal hacto guy, and that mobs keep coming for a while near the portals.  The only thing that makes the mission challenging with henchmen is that they're perilously short on defensive skills, and even that isn't a problem if you play a fairly defensive class.  If you have heroes, you can easily bring four healers and an elementalist with some wards and be basically invincible.  Quizzical 18:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Whhooooaaaa. Dont go overkill! I use 1 warder, 1 heal and 1 prot and breeze right through the mission. Mantra of Flame ftw, much? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 18:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there some reason not to go overkill on defensive skills? It's not like you have to spike anything down through the healing of some really powerful monks.  Sure, if Alesia and Lina as your only significantly defensive characters are enough to beat it (albeit with some difficulty), adding one more should make it pretty easy.  But if someone is having trouble beating the mission, going with an excessively defensive build will pretty much guarantee that they have no more trouble with it.  If you have heroes, it's kind of like Abaddon's Gate, where it's an easy mission, but when people have trouble with it and are told to bring lots of healing and condition removal, it just doesn't click that two healers and six pure damage dealers is not a defensive team.  Quizzical 18:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Hand Farming
At the lava pool, where the hands just keep respawning, would it be feasable or profitable to farm exp and/or molten claws/titan armor? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ravien Coromana (contribs).
 * Probably not, they don't spawn very fast nor do they spawn indefinitely. There are much faster ways to make money. BigAstro 10:51, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, okay. It just seemed to me, as soon as I killed one, another popped up in the lava pool, like they're reborn. XD sorry for not signing the previous comment. Now I feel like a noob. Ravien Coromana 10:57, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Ranger Tip
Because Winter still appears to be bugged, someone should remove the tip about Greater Conflag. and Winter. Greater Conflag. does indeed work, converting all physical to fire, but winter won't convert that over to cold, reducing your team's damage output.
 * The damage is still converted to cold, the damage calculation is just done before it is.--Ryve 00:25, 06 December 2008 (UTC+1)
 * But no bonus damage comes from it. King Neoterikos 23:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Revisions
Ok let's say you talk to the Seer, get the bonus and then it get killed,, can you still do the bonus? -- Ricky  16:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think its more or less... 1) you accept bonus from seer. 2)  you wander away but leave monsters near seer.  3) before you complete the bonus task, the seer dies, thus making it impossible to complete the bonus.  I don't think that once you've completed the bonus, they can take it away... seeing as how thats how prophecies works.  [[Image:Isk8.png]]Isk8 16:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Me thinks that if the seer dies after you talk to (it, him, her? wtf) them you still get the bonus, but I hate that mission so I'm not gonna check :P --[[Image:Ricky_sig.jpg|18px]] Ricky  16:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not positive, but I think you get the bonus completion at the same time you finish the mission, so if the Seer died then you lose the bonus --Gimmethegepgun 16:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You get the bonus marked even if you zone out right after completing the bonus only - and without finishing the mission again. Amy Awien 16:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You get the bonus as soon as you have killed all 3 Armageddon Lords, if the Seer is still alive. The seer has to be alive. This is also the reason why the seer's survivability had to be increased with the coming of hard mode. He usually died after the party left him to do the bonus. You do not get the bonus at the end of the mission, if you don't have it by then, you'll have to redo it.--Ryve 00:23, 06 January 2009 (UTC+1)

Extra Titan warriors during the Lich
Yesterday when I killed the Lich for the first time, rather than two titans spawning, four did. I looked around and four of the soul batteries were charged. Killing him a second time ended the mission. Is it a coincidence that four titans spawned rather than two when four soul batteries charged rather than two?

I had had four spawn at once only once in my previous eight times through the mission. The other time, I had killed the two extra titans in back, and assumed that four spawned because all four of the titans near the lich respawned when he died. This time, I hadn't killed the two in back, so that certainly wasn't it. I didn't check soul batteries that time, nor did I record how many times I had to kill the lich to end the mission.

I'm curious as to whether the four titans spawning at once is linked to the four batteries charging at once. It could be disproven by having four spawn at once while only two batteries charge. Beating the mission by killing the lich only once or twice would not prove anything in itself, as extra spawns don't come when the mission ends. Quizzical 06:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I've now done the mission 14 times recently watching to see if this was a coincidence. Four of the runs had the mission end upon killing the lich once, which gave no useful information, though at a glance, it did appear that more than two titans spawned as the mission ended.  Six required me to kill it three times, all of which brought only two titans the first time, and charged only two soul batteries the first time it died.  One required me to kill it twice, the first of which brought two titans and charged two soul batteries.  Three required me to kill it twice, the first of which brought four titans and recharged four soul batteries.


 * If we were given that there would be three times that four titans came upon the first death and three times that four soul batteries would charge, the probability that they would randomly coincide is 1/120 ~ .00833. If we are given that four soul batteries will charge upon the first death exactly three times out of the ten for which it does not end the mission, and that four titans will spawn with probability p and two titans will spawn otherwise and that the distributions are independent, the probability that four titans spawn precisely when four soul batteries charge depends on p, but is bounded above by 1/449 < .00223.


 * If we count the second death as well provided that it does not complete the mission and assume that there will be exactly three times that four soul batteries charge and three times that four titans come, the probability that they coincide is 1/560 ~ .00179. If we are given that four soul batteries will charge exactly three times and that four titans spawn with probability p with independent distributions, the probability that four titans will spawn exactly when four soul batteries charge again depends on p, but is bounded above by 1/2255 < .000444.


 * If we drop the assumption that two and four are the only possible number of titans to spawn or soul batteries to charge upon a death that does not complete the mission, the probabilities are smaller yet. This, I think is fairly strong evidence in favor of my claim.  Quizzical 20:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Advice for a 4 man team
Well as a personal challenge i am doing all prophices missions using only 3 heroes nothing else i have done every so far but i just cant beat this damn misson i have all campaigns and GW:EN so...any tips ?
 * First of all, what's your primary profession? A lot depends on that. Overall, I'd try to focus on cold damage, and take cold weapons if possible, since the titans have less armour to it. An MM might be helpfull, but don't know how well they would go with the permanent burning. That's all I can think of at the moment.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png]]El_Nazgir 16:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Minions die way too fast for me. Mantra of Flame + Ward against Harm is seriously a load of defense. I suggest that. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 16:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am a primary warrior and i have a cold dmg sword which i saved for this mission as well as a water ele if needed.
 * Or go sabway. --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] -- talkpage 16:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried something very similar to that (changed the mm since they died so fast even jagged bones didn't help) it went well at first but the sparks tore the team apart..


 * He's trying to do a mission, not vanquish an explorable area. What's with the use this standard gimmick build everywhere, even when it doesn't work bit?  Of course, it's not just you that I'm reacting to.  I've deleted so many "use a bonder monk" and "bring a minion master" comments from main pages (not talk pages) of missions that I've lost count.  Sometimes it's not bad advice, but merely no better than what someone unfamiliar with the mission might randomly guess.


 * Trying to 4-man it might stretch the usual dictum that damage in this mission really, truly doesn't matter. Eight wands would be enough damage to get you through eventually, but four might not be.  Try a couple healers and a water elementalist with ward against harm and ward against melee.  Make sure the healers are set to guard, not avoid combat, as you'll need their damage contribution.  Warriors don't match up that well with the mission, but bring some interrupts yourself to stop mobs' self-healing and interrupt the sparks.  If the sparks hit you, two healers can handle it.  If the sparks hit heroes standing in a ward against harm, they'll do little enough damage that the healers can heal that, too.  Quizzical 18:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * W00T done it finally!! Thanks everyone for your help on doing the mission Heres a picture...[[Image:4man lich defeated.jpg|500.px]]

Only death was ogden after the first time I killed the Lich he was teleported into lava..Had to kill him 4 times total --Gene195 19:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You had to kill the lich four times?! Are you sure you didn't miscount?  Having to kill him three times has been observed mnay times, but I'd never heard of having to kill him four times.  Did you happen to keep track of how many titans spawned each time he died?  Quizzical 21:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was 3 When I got there I only killed 2 Hands (The otehrs where out of aggro so I didnt see the point) the he died 2 fists spawned then again 2 titans spawned..Hmm yeah I think It was 3

Longbows
I found that if you attack the Lich with a Longbow, or any other bow that has range beyond aggro bubble, that he just stays where he starts. He'll cast Soul Vortex and that will occasionally teleport him or a player into the lava, but as long as the whole party just stays out of aggro range at the stairs, he'll move back to his beloved stone where he'll eventually die to the rain of arrows. Works on HM as well. This will probably result in having to kill him three times | Icey 19:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The AI was always a little screwy with longbow range, it's a shame that the lich was one of the easier bosses. Mr IP 19:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Rust
Rust, after Iron Mist probably the most useless spell in GW, is extremely effective on Hands and Fists. You just cast it as soon as the Hand and the Fist spawn, it lasts long enough anyway. Start attacking one of them, as soon as it reaches the point where it uses healing signet, use everything you got. Because of the -40 armor penalty, it will most likely die while it's using healing signet. This way I was able to finish Hands and Fists off myself, because while using healing signet, Ice Spear did 99 damage, and if timed right I was able to use Ice Spear up to 4 times while it was busy with healing signet. Combined with the rest of my team, it rarely happened that a hand or a fist survived while using healing signet. Besides that my team was able to interupt the healing signets more easily. I just thought I would share this tactic :)


 * The problem with that isn't that it doesn't work, but rather, it doesn't matter. If you have enough healing and defensive skills to keep your party alive, you'll win.  If not, you'll wipe, no matter how effectively you can deal damage.  Quizzical 19:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Still I am quite sure this makes the mission a whole lot easier :P I do agree though. 2 monks minimum, everyone brings defensive skills, and the mission is a piece of cake.


 * If it doesn't defend your party, it doesn't make this mission meaningfully easier. This is about as close to a purely defensive mission as one could design if so inclined.  Quizzical 06:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright... Let's say it enables you to complete the mission faster, yet it doens't make it easier... There. Happy? :P


 * Sure. But please, sign your comments by adding four tildes (~) to the end of your message.  And it's usually best to add one colon more than the previous message at the start of each paragraph, to make it clear where one message ends and the next begins.
 * A lot of mission pages have had various build tips on how to deal more damage. I usually delete them when I clean up the page because I consider them simply not useful.  Everyone and his neighbor's dog knows how to deal quite a bit of damage, and in most missions, it's quite unusual for someone to fail for lack of damage.  Most mission failures come about because the party didn't have adequate means to survive the damage that mobs deal, so that's what many mission pages need to address.  Indeed, using rust was one of the things I cleared off of this page--along with winter, greater conflagration, barrage, flesh golem, and conjure frost.  Quizzical 21:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Winter and Greater Conflagration don't seem to work due to probably a bug. Barrage... I don't know why that would be more effective in this mission then in any other mission... Flesh Golem, same thing. Conjure Frost I actually consider useless because of the enchant removal of Risen Ashes. But Rust completely shuts down Hands and Fists when they're at half health. Not only they take more damage, but because of the long time they use that signet they die sooner, thus doing less damage to your party. I still think this is a viable tip, but ok: you could still do the mission without it. The main point in this mission is defensive tactics.

1 kill
Just ran this in hard mode. 1 kill of the lich when he was almost on the lava so maybe its the opposite, and 1 kill is wawy from it and 3 kills is on it.--68.39.177.58 23:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)