Talk:Hall of Monuments

/Archive1

Hall of Moments category
The Hall of Moments category is for what is found *IN* in the HoM, it cannot contain it self. The category is to be treated like any other explorableable location category (see S&F/Explorable areas, categories section for more detail), so whoever keeps adding it, please stop doing so. --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 03:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Titles on Different Characters
I'm fairly sure nothing's been announced about this, but it's something that's bugging me. ANet has said that the HoM will transfer items from one account to another, but I have multiple characters with varying maxed titles and achievements. Should I be focussing on maxing out the hall of one character that will override the others, or will they all be lumped together and I'm fine to continue as I am? I seriously hope for the second, as my main character was too old for survivor and, having achieved it on a newer character, I don't want to lose the reward. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.93.250 (contribs) 08:19, 12 October 2008.
 * Titles will be merged eventually, so don't worry. All your titles will eventually be in the same place.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  14:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What will happen if you have for example 200 sweet tooth title track points on one character and 900 points on another character. Whould you have 1100 points and earn the first tier in the title or would you end up with 900 points (the max of the two)? I'm interested how they solve this Alleycat! 15:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * They probably won't be going as far as adding up points from different characters. That would be basically making it an account-wide title, instead of a character-based title.  By this logic, you would have the max rank Holy Lightbringer if you have 5 characters with 10,000 LB points each, which is not happening.  You will probably get the highest of your tracks counted when it comes to title rewards.  So, if you have 5,000 sweet points on one character and 7,000 on another, well, you still only have a max of rank 1 Sweet Tooth title and need another 3,000 points on the higher character to get rank 2.  It's not account-based, simple as that.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Linsey is working on re-balancing the title "grind", and it's certainly possible that a couple titles (the most likely candidates being Wisdom and Treasure Hunter) could be converted to account titles. If this happens, then yes, I would expect that the current points you have accumulated on each character would all add up into your account total.  In this case, if one character has 200 points on Wisdom and another has 1,000, then they would be added together to give you 1,200 in the new account-based Wisdom title.
 * However, that is not the same as the soon-to-be account-based Hall of Monuments. Linsey answered a question about this somewhere on her talkpages, actually, and said that the account HoM would essentially be a consolidation of the individual character's HoMs.  So basically, character-based titles must still be earned on individual characters in order to display the statue in your account's HoM - you can't have 5,000 Sweet Tooth points on two different characters and still get the Eternal Sweet Tooth statue, you've got to have 10,000 points on one character.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * @ RoseOfKali: that would make 5,000 sweets waisted. I don't like the idea of letting the title depend on which character consumed the sweet, instead of the total amount of sweets gathered; it would be so easy to transfer sweets from one character to an other if we just knew beforehand. But yet again: I could live with it. Alleycat! 00:40, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I never said it is sane to have 5,000 sweet points on one char and 7,000 on another, that was just for the sake of an example. My point was exactly that only one character will count, and any others will be wasted.  Also, what would you have to say about a sweet tooth in Presearing?  Not quite so easy to transfer sweets in there, and they do exist.  Consumables, however, aren't as much of a deal as Treasure Hunter and Wisdom.  It is a lot more of a pain to store the keys/gold items and transfer them between characters, and run past countless chests while adventuring on you "non-title" character, etc.  Then again, it would be nice if I could use DP-removal items on any character, when I need them, since they're not just novelty, they're also utility items.  But really, the only titles with a "problem" admitted by most players are treasure hunter, wisdom, and luxon/kurzick faction (last two just being too damn long for the faction attained by normal means).  I also have a problem with Gamer, as it is only obtainable on a "seasonal" basis, and guess what, as someone who has a life I can't play all that much during the holiday seasons when the gamer points are actually obtainable.  As far as the rest of the titles, I don't think there's a big demand for a "fix" of any kind.  There has been a lot of talk about TH and W titles being made account-wide and making K/L faction a little bit easier obtainable, and I think that's the best we can hope for.  Would also be nice if alchohol was changed into a point system instead of minutes, or at least add a drunk level indicator for easier monitoring, and add a year-round mini game for gamer points, but that's just gravy.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. I did not thought of the example of sweet tooth in pre-searing. Making sweet tooth acount based would not do right to people who achieved it in pre-searing (and still reside in pre-searing). As for me, taking the max of simular tracks instead of adding them up, would not be a big problem because I have just one title-focused character made during the introduction of the title system. Lucky me ^^ Alleycat! 15:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, now that they've de-renowned the Treasure Hunter title for permapres, they might as well do the same to Sweet Tooth. At first I was averse to that idea as I like the thought of only my necro being particularly hung up on sweets, but I've gotten sick of having incidents where I'm doing a mish or whatever with guildies and my leader offers me a candy cane or whatever but I have to say, "Sorry, Jor, you know I can't eat that on this character; if you give it to me I'll just throw it in my Xunlai and give it to Gui." Plus, I'd like to try out my uber-FastCast idea but it requires pie that Gui has laid claim to. Qing Guang 07:05, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to eat EVERYTHING you set your eyes upon.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 07:09, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, Treasure 1 or 2 was possible in Pre from Easter Eggs, but there's no way you could max it in Pre in under 10 years, so there was no real point to it. Sweet tooth and Ale hound, on the other hand, you can MAX in Pre.  Plus, overall, the consumable titles are much cheaper than W/TH, so it's not impossible to get them and still have plenty of stuff to eat on you other chars.  Also, now if you throw in a few account titles, you could get KOABD 1, or EVEN 2 in Pre.  Now with Wisdom and Treasure being account, you could quite easily get to KOABD 2 in Pre, if you dedicate enough time.  W, TH, Luck, ULuck, Kurz, Lux, Ale, Sweet, Party, LDOA, and hey, you don't even get into the crazy PvP titles yet.  I smell new goals for Perma-Pre's.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Cheaper? Wisdom has actually EARNED me money. Sure, I haven't maxed it, but just using the golds I've picked up in my regular play, I'm about 6 away from r1 and other than the odd lockpick that I've broken, I've generally profited from merching the crappy ones or giving the good ones to my heroes (whose weapons I would otherwise have had to pay for... :P). Sweet Tooth, on the other hand, has cost me several hours of farming and at least 10 if not 20k of party items I traded my guild leader for his candy, and I'm stil only just past halfway to r1. At this point I've given up on CoC, because I'm never going to get that much cash and I've missed out on about 2/3 of the festivals because I started in 2007 with Factions. Anyhow I dunno; I'm still uncertain whether I'd rather have the RP value of having it on one character or the lack of guilt over wasting ST points on another character. I wonder if it would be possible to modify the title so that it was account-based, but there was a separate Connoisseur of Ascalonian Confectionaries or something basically equivalent to the current ST but is like LDoA. I dunno if the game would be able to do that, but it seems to me that if it can detect that you've gotten lvl20 in Pre, it could detect that. Then the permapres could have their prestige and one could still use ST consumables on whatever character. Qing Guang 18:36, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've Wisdom 3 (originall had all-but-50 on my Ele) and it hasn't costed me a dime :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Cost is not just cash, it's also the time that you've spent farming the gold items (if you didn't farm the gold to buy them) and doing chest runs over and over. And when you take into account the combination of time and cash involved, the sweet title definitely takes less OVERALL EFFORT than treasure. RoseOfKali 04:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Returning to the main discussion - how will the issue of having multiple characters with different HoMs be resolved in GW2? Will it mean that it will be character to character based (ie. Character 1 in GW2 linked to HoM Character 1 in GW1, Character 2 in GW2 linked to HoM Character 2 in GW1, etc)?

Also, another nagging question : will the HoM be dynamic with the introduction of GW2? Meaning - once we've started playing GW2 with a HoM linked to it, will we still be allowed to continue to progress the HoM in GW1 and its changes affect GW2 (can forsee lots of pogramming problems/bugs with this). Or will it simply be static once we have "used" the HoM character in GW2?

To be fair, I'm not sure if ANet has released any info about the above questions as yet but if anyone has any inkling or ideas, would love to hear from them. Horus nightlight 07:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Dunno about your first question, but yes, you can continue adding stuff to your HoM and get new rewards in GW2 based on it. I guess one rationalization could be that the HoM is sorta ruined by GW2, so that your new character doesn't find everything immediately but later "uncovers" new info about his/her ancestor.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that Anet is working on making the HoM account based. When and how this will happen is still unknown.  But every achievement by each of your characters will be combined and apply to each of your characters in GW2.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

How "maxed" is maxed?
Considering that the number of displayable titles, minipets, heroes, armour sets and weapons are limited in comparison to those achievable, would the bonuses in GW2 be
 * a. standardised so that once the max displayable titles,etc have been reached, the bonus is fixed and accorded in GW2 OR
 * b. dependant upon the number of titles,etc irrespective of the maximum allowable in HoM? (ie. 20 minis give a certain bonus, 25 minis give another bonus, etc)

With the exception of max titles, I am hoping its not the latter for minipets, heroes, armour sets and weapons as they will do nothing more than encourage senseless grinding. At least with titles, primary PvEers would attempt some PvP and vice versa. Horus Nightlight 03:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not only senseless grinding, senseless grinding in a dead game.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think that rewards should stop once someone reaches the 5 heroes, 20 minis, 11 weapons, and 5 armor sets. It would be a mistake on Anet's part, as many players have surpassed those minimums and will be rather pissed off if it was all to waste without an advanced warning from Anet saying not to waste their time.  If nothing else, that would be the minimum for a nice and "valuable" reward, while having less than that will just give you something, but nothing too great, since you haven't "filled" it. Otherwise, what's the point of letting you display more than the minimum only to be wasted? Just my opinion. They might even go as far as giving rewards specific to what you put in.  Like with minis, you may be able to take out and parade the minis that you displayed in the HoM, regardless of the number, but you must have a minimum to be able to do so, otherwise you get a "generic" one instead of the variety.  Otherwise, what of those who dedicated a Vizu, a Ghostly Hero, or a Rollerbeetle? Will they be treated the same as a Wallow, Troll, and Devourer? Simple quantities? That would be plain wrong, as these minis are intentionally limited. Or your "companion" will have a number of switchable armor skins depending on how many heroes you displayed (5 gives you one, 10 gives you a nicer one, etc).  Stuff like that.  You can get creative with rewards here, and I don't think you can easily say that Oh, they won't spend too much time on it, so it has to be simple, bla bla, because it's going to be a new game.  The more content they put in, the more excited people will be.  And Anet is known for rewarding dedicated players with exclusive rewards like hats and minis. They shouldn't leave the hardcore GW1 players equaled to the casual. Otherwise, things like Tormented weapons, FoW armor, and rare skins like Crystalline would not be so rare, they exist with the purpose to differentiate the "elite" from the "casual" with no gameplay advantage. What's unique about GW is that you don't have to grind to get good at the game and get max gear or good skills, but if you do, you still get rewarded for it with vanity status. Same thing with the HoM. And they also will not want to disappoint after all the hype around the HoM, with all the secrecy surrounding it, still. Anet's reputation is on the line, and the established player base is their main source of income, so it would be a mistake to lose them to something silly like this. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:23, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Additionally, there's too much discrepancy in the difficulty to fill the different monuments. It's far too easy to fill Honor and Devotion.  Simply complete all three campaigns and max a couple Protector titles along the way, and you're set for Honor.  Keep 8 characters around for 3 years (or 10 for 2, etc.), and, unless you get very unlucky with duplicates, you'll have 20+ minipets for your Devotion monument.  In comparison, Resilience and Valor require farming a lot of gold and materials to craft 5 sets of armor and 11 Destroyer weapons (or, alternatively, farming DoA gemstones for Tormented weapons).  Fellowship is in-between, as you can get a few statues relatively easily (Black Moa, Imperial Phoenix, MOX), but you'll have to farm armor remnants in challenge missions for the rest.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:40, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically, it's about the vanity status. Same as titles, expensive armor, and weapons were not meant to be had easily by everyone, same the HoM is not meant to be maxed by everyone.  When you think about it, it's fairly easy to fill it.  Many casual players can afford 5 sets of Elite armor and 11 Destroyer Weapons (now that those are relatively dirt-cheap - same as a "decent" green), especially once the HoM becomes account-wide.  Fellowship is basically free, unlike Ishy said: Black Moa, Imperial Phoenix, Animal Companion (comes free with one of the first two), MOX, and you have to spend a whole 3k or 15-30 minutes of time in Dajkah Inlet to get a cheap armor upgrade for the 5th statue, VOILA!  So, I think a "full" hall is not equal to a "maxed" hall as far as rewards are concerned. There should be multiple ranks of rewards, and possibly a different reward system for each monument, but I absolutely cannot imagine them stopping at a minimally-full hall.  That's where the "fun" should BEGIN.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * While I tend to agree that the Monument of Devotion is easily filled with 20 regular minipets and Monument of Fellowship easily filled with 5 heroes and 3 pets, I think you might be over-estimating the casual player on the other monuments. For starters, without mapping, vanquishing or hard mode bonuses, it would be nigh impossible to max out Monument of Honor. As for Monument of Valor, it would take a minimum of 100 diamonds, 110 onyx, 2750 granites, 1100 iron and 55k to max out (Destroyer weapons are still by far cheaper than Tormented). And finally, Monument of Resilience would require at minimum of 220k excluding crafting materials for maxing (estimated cost of crafting materials would be about another 100-200k). Taking all that into consideration, I doubt casual players would find it easy to max. The story is of course infinitely different with hard core players and they should probably be rewarded in some way. As for the argument of ANet rewarding elitism via HoM - it is rather weak otherwise they would allow certain "rarities" such as bone dragon staffs, frog sceptres, emerald blades, silverwing recurve bows, etc to be displayed in HoM. HoM is probably introduced to encourage players to continue playing GW by baiting us with a reward system so we have a "tangible" goal in our mind. Which is why I still think that ranked rewards are still good for Monument of Honor as it encourages true gameplay, and less so with the other monuments.Horus Nightlight 00:01, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you except for Honor. Like I said above, "complete all three campaigns and max a couple Protector titles along the way" and you'll have Eternal Hero/Protector of Tyria/Cantha/Elona, a total of 6 statues if you complete all three Protectors (which really aren't very hard at all).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:11, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) (Yeah, I tend to get longwinded with these.) Monument of Honor is EXTREMELY easy to max. Beat 3 campaigns, you got 3/5 already. Do Sorrow's Furnace for fun, you got another. Get ONE Protector title, and you're full. With armor and weapons, of course, it will take some time for many players who wish to do so. However, there is widespread discussion, involving Anet as well, that the HoM will become account-wide. This means that those people who have saved up money to have ONE elite set per character (and quite a few non-hard core players do) will only need 5 characters with an elite set to fill Resilience. By the same token, they can spread the Destroyer weapons between characters, as well. Of course, this would not be easy to do for someone who has started playing recently, but a great number of GW players have been playing for at least a year, and will most likely have Resilience covered on the account, and Valor started. 5k+250granite+100iron+10diamond+10onyx = roughly 5k+3k+1k+4k+8k = 21k per weapon. Sure, it's out of reach for a truly casual player to get all 11 of them, but even a moderate investment of time will get you there sooner than you think. I don't consider myself a hard-core player, by far, when it comes to making money. I resent farming, as it is the most boring thing in the world. Most I've ever done was some Vaettir in HM, since you get the instant reward of Wisdom items, and I mostly did it during special drop weekends for an extra bonus. It doesn't make much money, just desirable items (I merch like 99.9% of the golds after I ID them). Yet, I've gotten quite far along in both of these "expensive" monuments (considerably past the "max" level). I just save money that I make by playing, and it accumulates. If you decide that you WANT to get those items, you don't have to grind to get them, just give it some time, do what you like to do, and just save your money instead of buying random junk, which I find to be the case disturbingly often. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Rose, STFU. You're one of the richest people on Guildwiki.  I can't afford to spend 5,000 hours on one character.  Don't believe me?  Go to your Necro's page.  Now compare your collection to everyone else's, you are in no ways casual or even near casual.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Ho ho ho.]]îğá †ħŕášħ  00:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, and compare me to all those who farm UW and DoA solo day and night? How do you think I got all that?  I PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME, I've done just about everything there is to do, EXCEPT farm my ass off.  I'm not saying I'm "casual," that's people who have a job and kids and spend a few hours a week here to unwind.  I said that I'm far from a hard core farmer, while I see dozens of those every day, with their Permas, 55's, 600's, and Cryers, or whatever the latest fad is, crying about the next SF nerf, but still doing it til their brains liquify.  I've never had any of those builds.  I'm just an OCD who's locked up in her own house with nothing else to do but this, or shoot herself.  But somehow, I managed to get an elite armor set on each of my characters within a few months of starting to play this game, while in an engineering college getting a 3.8/4 GPA, because that's what I wanted, instead of shelling out 95k on Ghial's Staff when Factions first hit.  And those 5,000 hours on my necro?  4,000 of those were spent afk, because when I wake up at night, there had to be some light and sound around, or I'd go fucking crazy until the morning.  Don't believe it?  I don't give a damn.  But don't tell me to STFU.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Rose, just STFU. 4,000 hours afk? Please. Quit acting like your elitism embarrasses even yourself.
 * Maybe you should get over your jealousy and read what I was trying to say? I'm not telling casual players to go and get 17+ armor sets and a load of tormented weapons, that is far beyond the "minimum" to fill the monument.  But whatever, dude.  And yes, my computer was on 24/7 for rather extended periods of time.  --> [[Image:You have been playing for 1 week.jpg|200px]]  Or are you gonna try to say that I didn't sleep?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:42, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Umm.. Rose/Ishmael... I think I misunderstood you guys here. Max display for Monument of Honour is 5 which is easy for even casual players. However, max for Monument of Honour appearance is 25 maxed titles which is a definitely beyond casual players. Hehehe... and off topic... if you are selling 100 iron at 1k, please whisper me in game pronto. :P Horus Nightlight  202.185.66.6 05:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Thackeny (sp?)
So I was just hanging out in my HoM watching a few cutscenes again. After about... five? Lt. Thackeny from the Wintersday quests walked into my hall and began chatting with Gwen. Was kinda neat, that they snuck that one in there. Skippster 06:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Lolwut? I've never heard of that. Unexpected easter eggs from ANet are always nice. :) I wish I'd completed the Wintersday quests, so I could record the dialogue myself; hopefully someone more fortunate will notice and take screens. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:26, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

spirit of life
I just went in with a hero haing Spirit of Life, and when one died, I noticed all the stands for my weapons got healed too. Got screenie if required.--El_Nazgir 09:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * XD Yeah, I've seen that. I think the stands are programmed as NPCs holding the respective weapons. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 16:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it just the weapons, or does it affect the statues on the other monuments as well? They all have white names, so it would make sense that they're all similar as far as "object type" is concerned.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:20, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Aren't white names items, generally? o-o --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The HoM is a special case, though - using the "target nearest object" key in there will target the signpost at the doorway or the plaques in front of the monuments, never the statues, so they're not normal items/objects. By "object type" above I meant something more like "entity type" that could cover everything: characters, monsters, items, objects, etc.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought they all had golden names like the trebuchets and stuff. But I thought I also saw my armour getting healed, but I'm not sure. Could check it out.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 16:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Rainbow Phoenix
The text states "Only available when you enter with no other pets, heroes, henchmen, or human players." If by "available" means for taming the statement is fine, but the phoenix will be in the HoM even if you bring another pet. Should it be changed? 194.239.247.187 07:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Will change to "Only appears when you enter with no heroes, henchmen, or other human players." It should be quite blatantly obvious that you shouldn't bring a pet if you want to TAME another one.  I never noticed whether it was there if I enter with a pet, good observation.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * About the death leveling bit, Progger, a "WIPE" means everyone's dead. And death-leveling a phoenix is kind of hard with a hero standing there ressing you, the phoenix will just aggro on him, and no death-leveling.  So, standard death-leveling cannot be done.  If you want to stand there and re-aggro the pet every time you are ressed, feel free to do that.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol and yes, I feel stupid now, no phoenix unless you're alone. :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I like to point out the obvious. :D Nikanor Nascent 18:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I do too, usually... But sometimes I blurt out stuff like that. ^^ :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for fixing all the mistakes I have made in edits lately, I am new to the whole editing game (as you can probably tell) Nikanor Nascent 18:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Luxon/Kurzick armor
I might be mistaken, but according to this page headgear isn't required in order to display your elite armor. However, I tried displaying my Elite Luxon armor, and it wouldn't display. My guildies said they could display their armor, but they bought the headgear, too. So in order to display Kurzick or Luxon armor you do need headgear? Or is GW just acting silly for me?

Oh, and by the way, don't you people think it's odd that you can now see your character wearing elite armor that it never owned? It would make more sense if GW just showed statues of the different characters wearing their own armor instead of just your current char wearing all different kinds of armor... :\ OMGWTFCHEESEFRIES 02:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's an old thing really, armour always sets to the person looking, so a female character who has male armour in their inventory sees it as female armour. Ezekiel  [Talk]  02:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)