Talk:Damage calculation

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 * /Archive -- User:Cloak of Letters's big list of questions and their responses. Most have been answered (and the articles explain them now).  The only question that seems to be unresolved is whether Necrotic/Tormenter take extra damage from light damage.
 * /Archive2
 * /Archive3
 * /Archive4 -- newest archive

Holy on undead: Double or -40?
I'll leave other ppl to figure out how to test it, I'm just asking the questions to make our knowledge more complete d-:

One interesting thing I noticed about holy damage on undead is that it can't crit. It will always do double the normal value, never critting.--Dragos 13:21, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, when minions take damage, can the necro see how much damage was taken? If not this might have to be tested in PvP )-: -PanSola 15:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Again: Needed Testing on Damage Level Attribute Threshold
Characters level 2-7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 17. Swing 10 criticals on a Whiptail Devourer (note, they're right outside Ascalon) and report your damage as well as the exact stats of your weapon/ what your attribute level is. We need to verify the diminishing returns formula holds at every level.

Judge's Insight vs Necrotic testing
Since we got two ppl whith necro around, I figure might as well ask here:


 * Damage done with JI from Doppleganger with AL60 standard Armor
 * Damage done without JI from Doppleganger with AL70 Necrotic/Tormentor's Armor (Drok or 15k)
 * Damage done with JI from Doppleganger with AL70 Necrotic/Tormentor's Armor (Drok or 15k)


 * Damage done with JI from Doppleganger with AL30 standard Armor from Lion's Arch
 * Damage done without JI from Doppleganger with AL40 Necrotic Armor from Lion's Arch
 * Damage done with JI from Doppleganer with AL40 Necrotic Armor from Lion's Arch

Unfortunately with necro armor and monk skill this means there's no room to fit wildblow in there )-: So please take around 20~30 70~100 values for each case to account for the weapon's damage range.

If there is a way to set up PvP dueling we can do even more controlled testing. -PanSola 15:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I need to test more. The dopple is using a bow and the hits go all over.  Since there is no necrotic head gear the damage varies a lot more than it should.  But as of right now my results are:
 * 44-67 damage with AL60 (full scar pattern set)
 * 42-87 damage with AL70 (full necrotic set - im not too sure on that 42, I need to retest)
 * 27-72 damage with only legs as necrotic (I was shocked to say the least when I saw 27)
 * So far it looks the same as the testing with banish ... +20 damage for 4 pieces of necrotic armor. I'm sure we can get a group of 8 people together to test this in teams (2 teams of 4 in international).  I'm available in the evening generally from 4-9pm (3-7pm Fri/Sat). | Chuiu 21:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * To account for the lack of headgear, keep statics on how often eachnumber pops up. That way we can filter out the 12.5% oddity, given enough numbers. -PanSola 21:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Remember the control case of damage w/o JI also
 * Remember to specify timezone ^^" also if we do get ppl to test in PvP, I want to see if necrotic take extra from Light damage (from monk regular weapons) as well.  and while we are at it, summon minions put shilelding hands on them and have someone with JI do wildblow to see if it's double damage or -40AL ^^" -PanSola 21:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Those times I posted are central. And I'm 50% sure (made up statistic?) that necrotic DOES take extra from light.  This is just what i've seen in PvP when monks are attacking me while they aren't healing allies. | Chuiu 22:01, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Could be customized weapon though... hard to say -PanSola 09:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Another thing untested: the place of DScale
When I found out DScale was different from DEnhance, I was happy enough to just stop testing there. However, I never actually tested whether DScale is applied before or after DShift. Can someone test it for me? Finals coming up... -PanSola 01:16, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Damage Groups...
It is useful to classify damage into damage groups (especially for PvP).

This seems to imply every damage belongs to (at least) one group. Is that the case? -PanSola 23:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It is useful to classify damage into damage groups (especially for PvP).

Can someone word that better, I'm not sure that I can figure out what it is trying to say. --Rainith 16:17, 12 February 2006 (CST)
 * I'm changing that section into a "see also" since no one can seem to explain it. -PanSola 04:13, 26 February 2006 (CST)

TeX formatting
Does this wiki support it? I believe I tried previewing a $$formula$$ but it didn't show up. 69.124.143.230 03:20, 25 February 2006 (CST)
 * My guess is guildwiki doesn't support TeX formatting. -PanSola 04:14, 26 February 2006 (CST)

Illustrative Examples
--Savio 06:34, 27 February 2006 (CST)

I think we want a few examples of how the formula works, so people can follow the example and truely understand how to use the formula. As opposed to some black-and-white curves comparing warrior skill damages at different levels. People who were confused by the formula will remain confused when looking at those graphs. -PanSola 04:25, 26 February 2006 (CST)


 * Sorry to be so critical, but the graphs are very hard to read. Take this from someone who makes her living reading graphs all day. If the raw data were posted somewhere, I can make better looking plots out of them. 04:30, 26 February 2006 (CST)
 * I agree with yoru point too, but my primary point is that those graphs don't seem to suit the need of the "Illustrative Examples" section of this particular's article d-: -PanSola 04:36, 26 February 2006 (CST)

Also, the comparaison between BP and Cleave is a bit ridiculous, Cleave is a powered up ES, if you need to swap out something to take Cleave, this is what you should remove, not BP. Also, considering that you'll be doing Cleave more often than BP, it's doubtfull that the small difference in dmg per hit is really going to be significant. --theeth 06:27, 26 February 2006 (CST)


 * The work itself has been refuted by Ensign in that thread as well as others. --Karlos 19:15, 26 February 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not critisizing the data, obviously, great work and care has gone through that, I'm debating the interpretation and conclusion thereof. Basicly, I feel like the article is saying that one skill is fondamently better than the other while only comparing single-hit damage and not addrenaline charging time nor even DPS output. --theeth 22:18, 26 February 2006 (CST)


 * But the data is wrong, and it really shouldn't have been left up when the creator knew it was wrong. The +damage should fall under DShift, not in AE. In other words, +damage ignores armor. If it wasn't removed already I would have taken it out because it was misleading. -Savio 06:34, 27 February 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah it looked fishy to me, but I didn't have the original numbers nor did I know the thread where it first came up, so I figure I'll just argue they don't belong here first, and if somehow they are staying then I'd worry about checking their correctness d-: -PanSola 06:38, 27 February 2006 (CST)