GuildWiki talk:Administrator information

This page is so much easier to read now that you've split it. GJ! RT | Talk  - A joyous wintersday to all 08:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Lack of Admins
Two admins active, no beuracrats... I've left a message on Biro's talk on GWW, hoping that He'll promote somone to succeed him (Jedi hopefully), and hopefully we can get a few more admins up. I'm thinking Gimme and Viper, possibly Shadow, and maybe RT. Probably not me, since I'm hated around here. XD ^^ -- Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 00:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe that Gem is on rather frequently and I know that Pansola still is keeping an eye on things. Frankly, while we only have a few admins, I don't think we need that many. Maybe a few more in Euro time zones... We just do custodial work really.&mdash;♥Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 00:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? I'm on the wiki almost 24/7 and I nearly never see Gem or Pansola. For the most part, they're inactive. Sure, they pop in and do some banning/deleting/talking, but they're not active. We need a European admin (RT? Viper? Gimme(Idk if hes Europe)? ATM, if somone like Raptors came in and started vandalising, we'd be helpless for about 5-10 hours. No offense, Jedi, and Marco, but two people both living in america isnt enough. Though admittedly as of late contributions have dried up, and the wiki seems to be dying, we do have vandals. Admittedly, I've debated going to the offical wiki, but I'm sticking here until its truly dead. I'll know them that happens. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 01:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Typo
Deleted my post. I feel stupid. 牛 Correct 仔 Jeans 裤 15:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

What constitutes "active?"
By exactly what standards do we judge particular administrators to be active, semi-active, or inactive? This goes beyond appearances and vanity, because Administrator information is one of the first things new users would check. Surely there must be some attempt to standardize this label. Two examples:
 * User:Shadowcrest, who is on semi-active status by his own request, yet has nearly 150 contributions in August already. Granted, there is a 5-day break mixed in there, and many of contributions are to user talk, but would Shadowcrest be a reliable individual to contact in the case of an emergency? Certainly.


 * User:Gimmethegepgun, semi-active with 350 contributions this month.


 * User:R.Phalange, who claims to be "active," yet has made three contributions in the last three weeks, and that's being generous by counting the revert to this article. Futhermore, he won't even defend his claim beyond an edit summary saying "I'm still here." Would a new user looking for an administrator's help who posted on Phalange's talk receive that help? All evidence says no. He'd probably be chastised for spamming and possibly banned a week later, though.

So, is this GuildWiki article merely a formality, a bit of fluff where admins are given pretty colored boxes? Or is it intended to help old and new users should the time arise? The community must decide. 00:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, that answer would be yes. I browse through the wikis multiple times each day. I'm always here. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  00:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And I responded to this while in RA. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  00:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Note- I just moved myself back to active, but for the purposes of discussion it would be best to keep pretend like I was still in semi-active status. (or felix can beat me to it) --Shadowcrest 00:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Merely claiming that you browse the wiki multiple times a day is not very strong proof. The fact of the matter is, you have no presence. You don't even lurk on IRC anymore. You're like a plastic bag blowing in the wind. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm almost always on #gww, but #gwiki either gets too much spam, or doesn't have any activity (and then there's the hostility that's sometimes aimed at me if I say something like "I'm still here"). I'm always available for contact, so this page is fulfilling its primary function for me. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  00:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So what we really want is some "always lurking" category? Phalange, Randomtime, Shadowcrest, Auron, (JR?) you might want to indicate that you can be contacted on IRC in your admin info. --◄mendel► 06:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It amuses me how no one complained about these sort of thing back in the day...Felix, I'd suggest you to check yourself and Assume Good Faith for R.Phalange, despite the truth that you nor anyone else can provide proof of "lurking" (whomever that user may be, admin or not). Even though I also wish he would contribute a bit more, I am content to know that he is always watching; I take his word for it because I have no reason to believe otherwise. Auron is similar, although I know he has/had some pressing RL engagements too - I knew without any doubts when he was or was not paying attention to this or that Wiki affair; even if he couldn't prove it to me over AIM/in-game, I'd trust his word too.
 * I think the basic sentiment here is something like: "Considering all the trouble and fuss that went into R.Phalange's sysoption, I really expect more from him than just a lurker." That's understandable; I've never seen so contentious an RfA here ever before, one which truly caused disagreement and brought about some soul-searching discussions. Nevertheless, I don't think it is fair to continue to judge R.Phalange as if the RfA happened just yesterday. Though it may be hard for some to agree, I'd like to think it is water under the bridge now. Treat R.Phalange as you would any other sysop in the same position. ... If I didn't contribute much for weeks and weeks, would you tell me to "put up or shut up"? Is anyone calling out PanSola or Auron in the same vein because they don't somehow meet the magical 100-posts-a-week quota? How about others like Randomtime, Isk8, Cress, etc. who have had some major spells of inactivity? Nope...
 * I understand that the counter-argument is: "I have no proof of R.Phalange's activity, while contributions are solid and can't be disputed. What the f*ck does he even DO?" True enough. But then I must ask you, what you you truly want from your sysops? Must they prove to you that they are always active, even if they have to resort to posting spam and inane chatter just to show they're around? That seems completely unreasonable to me. Even if R.Phalange isn't using his guns as much as you or I may wish (which is the one difference between judging an admin and a non-admin's activity), that is no reason to figuratively lock them up to new users (inactive list) or, worse, truly take them away (demotion). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A few totally non-confrontational and unantagonistic comments. I know Auron is at least watching because I see him on IRC fairly often (right now for instance). I only moved Phalange to semi-active, not inactive, and given that active refers to activity, not observation, it seemed perfectly reasonable to me. And finally, GW:AGF does not apply in cases where trust has been broken. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It saddens me that we have to include such a specification for something as benign as an activity table; but if it must be so, then so be it.
 * I disagree with your dissertation - AGF applies except against evidence to the contrary; when a user's actions prove otherwise, that is when you stop assuming good faith. I have yet to see any hard evidence that R.Phalange has a malicious intent for being on this Wiki; that he intends other than good as a sysop; or that he is not watching the Wiki. (Since when did IRC presence become a prerequisite for lurkers?) Moreover, all actions ought to be viewed in light of past actions. And considering R.Phalange's contributions; I see no reason to infer that he is a liar or a pretender. Certainly he has made some vague/misunderstood comments which sowed confusion, and he has made some lapses in judgment (by not fully considering how others would see things, before taking/not taking actions). But I believe they were all honest mistakes. And we all make mistakes. I have no reason not to assume good faith for R.Phalange. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to discuss Phalange's character, but I have plenty to say and show regarding it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * All of which flaws you yourself have equaled or surpassed in your own behaviour at different points in time; and yet I still assume good faith for you. It's not just me either. Those who live in glass houses... In any case I believe this is a discussion best held elsewhere if you wish to continue on this vein. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Imo, the only judging of an admin's activity is whether or not they check the wiki actively and consider themselves active enough that they can be contacted for daily wiki concerns. This judging can only be done by the admin themselves. Admins are not required to constantly hang around and participate in mindless chatter. In fact, there are benefits to having an admin who is a bit more aloof. I personally am on GuildWiki every day though more often than not, i am wearing my normal user hat using the wiki to look stuff up and perform only cursory RC patrols. If you suspect an admin is inactive and has neglected to change their status on this page, you should ask them first. If they dont respond in a day or so, they are not as active and their status can be changed. Otherwise, they may be, like RP and Auron, actively watching without adding contribs. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 09:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Should The Project Page be "Protected"
Just a curious thought, not exactly caused by the last event revolving around this, but it did bring the idea to my mind. Since really, only sysops should be editing the project page, should we consider making it protected? And since protecting a page does not affect its talk page, I don't see any negative consequences from such an action. Comments? --   I~sk8   (T/C) 11:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Pages are a tool. It would be dumb to lock them into one specific use. --Auron/◄mendel► 12:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't. What happens if admin makes spelling mistake and no one catches it? Major embarrassment. ... on serious note I don't see any reason to protect it, even if it should mostly be edited by sysop. Prot is for use against vandals, not to sort editors by rights. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)