User:Mendel/Talk Archive 8

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Symbolic Kick - Autocat with Location InfoBox
Here's the symbolic kick/reminder to setup some autocat with the location infobox. (I thought it worth another shot :-)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

hop on IRC
Could you hop on for a moment plz? kthx Himm Taeguk  (T/C) 10:02, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved. -- ◄mendel► 11:16, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing is resolved... nope I'm just saying hey.[[Image:Wikismiley.svg|19px]][[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 16:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Postcard
Mendel, Mendel, Mendel, postcard, postcard, postcard --   † F1 ©  Talk  17:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Userbox! -- ◄mendel► 10:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice let me see if I can get the Laser Sheeps in a Userbox 2 xD. It looks nice Mendel :D -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]]  † F1 ©  Talk  16:25, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well not the best. But Will work on it some more if i find some time :D

--   † F1 ©  Talk  16:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, with all the bugfixing I forgot to tell you I enjoy your box! :-) -- ◄mendel► 00:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Never give all the Heart
-- ◄mendel► 22:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi-res hotlinking
Hey, as usual I am somewhat clueless to the actual appropriate location for my question/suggestion, and so just default to you and get directed from there.

This time: is it feasible to consider modifying the basic skills template (that appears on skill pages, for example uhm, say, Malign Intervention) to include a link to the hi-res version of the skill icon? As an incessantly curious artwhore, I constantly find myself going "... wtf is that" when I see skill icons, and it'd be moderately more convenient to be able to insta-link to the big version instead of having to load up the Hi-Res index, select the profession, and then CTRL+F down to it.

Something like:

Basically, I'm curious if:
 * This modification of a major site feature seems reasonable,
 * The modification would be simple to implement, and
 * Anyone would care enough to require me to go post a notice of proposed development somewhere.

Thanks for any info, -- AudreyChandler 22:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A modification of the skill box requires sysop intervention as it places quite a bit of load on the servers, so, yes, people would care. Your suggestion has been discussed before, though I don't recall where; and as far as I know, Dr Ishmael had standardized the names of the High-res icons such that if you know the name of the skill, you can deduce the name of the icon. If that's true, it's not technically hard to implement; I'd prefer a small "enlarge" icon such as the one used on the thumbnail images instead of the more "intrusive" textual link that conveys no information about the skill. The community portal talk would probably the best place to discuss this. -- ◄mendel► 22:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Unofficial Official public forums.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ 22:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What would we do when the hi-res icon differs from the in-game icon? --  Shadowcrest  23:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the names are standardized, so it could be inserted as a simple algorithm into the template code. I was unaware of the server-load issues. Alright, so instead of the text, you'd prefer something more like this:


 * {| class="infobox skillbox"

! class="name" | Malign Intervention
 * colspan=2 |
 * colspan=2 |


 * }


 * How's that? (icon may be off-center a little bc, as usual, I'm not a code whiz... to put it mildly) I'll community-talk it once I can clear the basic hurdle of satisfying Mendel. x]


 * (EC) As far as Shadowcrest's concern, that is why I originally intended it to section-link to the primary hi-res article page (eg, High-resolution skill icons/Necromancer) using a # plus the skill name. Those pages have prominent notations above any skill icon that is mismatched. Alternatively, I could draft up a list of mismatched skills which should specifically be excluded &mdash; it's not extensive. And of course PvE skills could be auto-detected by the template code and given a grayed-out magnifier with the mouseover text "No high resolution icon available". -- AudreyChandler 23:22, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you see me as a "hurdle", please step right past me. I like to think my contributions to the discussion improve what we finally do, and if that's not the case, I'm doing it wrong.
 * Your sample design looks fine now.
 * I don't understand the problem about mismatched skills (probably because I haven't looked), but it is possible to redirect images if the name is not what it should be (see File:MiniPolarBearIcon.png), and it is possible to introduce a parameter in the skill template that specifies the hi-res icon name if it differs (but using a redirect might be simpler?), and it is probably possible to write javascript that displays the icon when you mouse over the magnifier (i.e. without leaving the page) (but I can't do it).
 * Also, I edited your example to take advantage of the image linking that has become possible with the 1.14 update. I suspect is not possible to edit the caption of that, though. Would it make sense to simply link the skill icon to its high-res version? -- ◄mendel► 06:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention: we could link the profession icon to the "primary hi-res article page" instead. The possibilities are endless there. -- ◄mendel► 06:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Aw, chill~! I meant "hurdle" in a positive sense, like a checkpoint. IE, if you think something is properly designed then it probably means it's ready to be presented to the wiki community at large. I see your opinion as a very good signpost for how much development an idea still needs to be viable (since you're rather clinically direct and objective, generally patient, and not a pretentious caustic jerkwad).


 * The problem with mismatched skills is that the hi-res icons are stolen from the SealedPlay fan kit cards, and some of those cards use the wrong image for the skill (or confuse two images). A good example is at the Ranger page. The skill "Bestial Pounce" (a Prophecies skill) uses the icon for "Savage Pounce" (the Factions duplicate); meanwhile, "Savage Pounce" uses the icon for "Bestial Mauling". And checking "Bestial Mauling", it... has the correct icon. So we end up with 2 instances of Bestial Mauling, 1 (misattributed) instance of Savage Pounce, and... no hi-res to be found for Bestial Pounce. So the SealedPlay stuff has some very severe mixups going on in a few spots, and it's not at all predictable, and sometimes there's no correct icon to even redirect to.


 * I did end up on the same line of thought as you (just link from the icon), but one issue that occurs to me is that sometimes (for various reasons) people want the game-size version of the icon, or to access the File page, and it's difficult to find a link to those otherwise. But, eh, I dunno how significant that concern is. If we do decide to go with the little "magnify me" icon, I'll whip up a cute magnifying glass in Illustrator. ^_^


 * And... whot? Did you say Wikia has image-linking enabled now? :D :D :D That... is swanky. That is... very swanky. -- AudreyChandler 07:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh and hmm, linking to the general Hi-Res/Profession page was sort of my original plan, just with a section link (the little # -affix trick) to the icon's image. But when you interpreted it as linking directly to the File page, I twigged to that idea and like it better now. The grounds for it that I'm thinking is solely that it prevents people on slower connections from having to load 92,000 icons just to see the 1 they're looking for. -- AudreyChandler 07:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah and the JavaScript mouseover magnifier sounds very cool, but at the same time, I suspect it's probably best to get the basic functional framework in place (as simply as possible) and add cool toys later if they still seem like a viable improvement. But I do really like that idea, if it ever works out in the future (eg, magical code fairies visiting GWiki in the night). -- AudreyChandler 07:11, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Like hi.
Hiya Right... this is a long one. I bumped heads quite often with the community, and decided to stop contributing. My friend wanted to start editing but couldn't be bothered EDIT: ...to register, so... I told him to use my old account since the plan was I'd stop, and... unofficially... IPs tend to be looked down upon and get less of a say in matters. Since he grew bored of the idea of wikis incredibly quickly, I decided to return to... well, I can't really say why. I felt I should. Now I'm wondering about the name. I'm thinking of making a new account and simply having ST relink to the new one, but needless to say my judgement is worse than terrible at the moment... if you could give me guidance once again, I'd be most grateful. --> John  16:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * GW:SOCK says it's ok to make a new account when you're starting over, but it's not official or anything. -- ◄mendel► 23:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove vandal
If you have time (I right now do not) can you modify the remove vandal JS to at least function on history/diff pages? (doesn't have to solve IE7 issue). -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 23:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to add a check for the body class for those namespaces because I can't really code Javascript. I don't know why this feature is needed, the other wikia wikis don't seem to have it. -- ◄mendel► 23:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Other wikis weren't hit by a spree of vandalism that sends you to websites containing extremely disturbing images if you click almost anywhere inside the the page, including the "prev"/"next" links when looking at the diff of the vandalism. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 23:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have web developer installed and can use .css to eliminate the external links altogether if needed (or via personal monobook.css or monaco.css, or browser user stylesheet). Use  . Or just revert my edit to MediaWiki:Common.js/AllInOneLoader and restart your browser. ;-) I bet turning off preview for diffs in your preferences helps, too (I never have that on). -- ◄mendel► 23:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC) & 00:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have also since changed the reference frame for positioning. -- ◄mendel► 00:03, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not about me, it's about GuildWiki users in general. I don't need to be protected by it (because I am alert enough to avoid being caught, usually), it's about other ppl going through the history of various previously vandalized articles (assuming the vandal never returns).  And... are you (Mendel) proposing to use CSS to eliminate (hide) all external links on the wiki??? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We have revision delete now, if it becomes an issue we Bcrats can simply delete the vandalized revisions. And yes, I proposed that as a stopgap measure to enable editors to fight the vandalism while it is ongoing. -- ◄mendel► 00:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That happened over a year ago, I don't see the problem recurring either. Why are we investing time in this? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It still affect the histories of article. If we are to not invest time in this, then I'd advocate restore the js code as that is the minimal effort solution that keeps history-digging wiki users safe. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * F1 is the second user (after [ Entropy] a few weeks back) to get hit by the unexpected and undocumented behaviour of the code. I've suggested several solutions to the problem, which I'm more than willing to test if you point me at a tainted history. -- ◄mendel► 00:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Better solution: delete the offending revisions. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

''The page cannot be displayed. You have reached this page because the link no longer exists or was disabled for violation of our T.O.S.'' Sidebar and tabs are still accessible (monobook & monaco), diff without preview is fine, and the browser's back button is also serviceable. The history is safe. -- ◄mendel► 00:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC) & 00:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC) & 00:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

2.0 points of experience
lol: 2.000 ^_^ -- AudreyChandler 22:03, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A very precise amount of experience (+/- 0.0005). -- ◄mendel► 22:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * ...OK, round 2:


 * Click me
 * 2.000
 * Click me


 * xD -- AudreyChandler 22:58, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I am a European so the fact that you link to has been obvious to me for a long time. However, I'm thick, so what is it that you want me to see? And do I need to add a link so you'll understand what I wanted you to see? -- ◄mendel► 07:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Uh... okay... this seems to be upsetting you so, I'm sorry? All I was saying was that the person clearly meant "2000", not "2.0". I thought you really believed they were trying to write a decimalised number, and was just trying to clarify to you that it probably wasn't a mistake on that editor's part, just a regional style difference.


 * I was just trying to be cute about it. Apparently you did not enjoy it. My apologies for that, and I'll make sure to be less obtuse and more direct in the future. -- AudreyChandler 07:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * No, you misunderstood. Have a look at [ my edit] again: clearly I understood that the person meant 2000, clearly I would know this because 2.000 is the German way to write 2,000 (and I am German), and the reason why I didn't let the edit stand is that 2.000 means 2.0 (but more precise) in the USA and Britain, and that is what my edit summary alluded to, albeit "obtusely", and that is what I also alluded to in my first response here, but again, you probably aren't mathematical enough to have appreciated the humour in that. :-P -- ◄mendel► 07:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm currently about 1⁄4 of the way through my Bachelor of Arts in Mathematics, thanks.


 * The only clear thing was that you replaced it with 2000 because it was obviously intending to say 2000 (based on how experience is awarded in GW), so your thought process was not obvious to me, really. Thus your edit summary seemed to indicate a misinterpretation of the editor's intent. Your joke about significant figures was understood, but it seemed you were playfully teasing about the person typoing 2.0.


 * This was never a very significant issue to me, and bringing it up to you was solely a spontaneous whim resulting from my enjoyment of sharing knowledge. Rest assured I did not set out to upset or inflame you. -- AudreyChandler 07:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well rest assured that mendel is neither inflamed, infected, nor inebriated. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know you did not intend to upset or inflame me. (I wouldn't be too sure about the other two, Felix. ;-) I replaced it because it said 2.0 although it intended to say 2000, yes. ;-) So you have to read my summary not as a commentary on the editor's intent, but rather on what they actually wrote. It boggles the mind how you can suppose I can assume an editor to mean 2.0 when the previous version said 2000 &mdash; or that I did not follow your link the first time. I need to work on my public image more. :-( B.A., hmm, interesting, so I was right in assuming a probability and not certainty :). Is there numerical analysis in your syllabus? -- ◄mendel► 08:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC) & 08:02, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "the person typoing 2.0": your link suggests (and I assumed) that it wasn't, in fact, a typo, but rather the work of somebody accustomed to European-style notation. (This is supported by the IP address being registered to AtHome Benelux Network Operations Centre.) Thus, I did not correct to "2,000", but kept it at an international "2000". -- ◄mendel► 08:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC) & 08:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I understood your actual intent the moment you explained and contradicted my assumptions. The only reason I've kept replying so extensively here is to carefully explain why I said anything in the first place, since my flashing link to Wikipedia seemed to rub you the wrong way, and I didn't want you to be left with an impression that I was trying to be insulting.


 * No, I haven't had much numerical analysis (outside the cursory basics throughout Calculus), but it will be coming up in the upper-division courses I think. Either that, or it's one of my elective options. I might diverge off into Stats & Probability at the upper-division split, though. -- AudreyChandler 08:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Rubbing me the wrong way takes a lot more insensitivity than you've so far displayed on this wiki, ever. :-D I think stats is important but ugly, and numerical stuff is sexy, but then I'm not a true mathematician. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 08:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Stats is ugly, a lot of the time. When it's really good it's gorgeous but yeah, usually it gets relegated to a rather utilitarian role. But, I really like it, it's kind of blunt and intuitive which I'm better at. "Real math" &mdash; the abstract art, like analysis & proofs & true algebra & et cetera &mdash; is very sexy indeed... I wish I was more capable with it. Honestly, I am rather bad at math in general (like, no head for it), but I decided to major in it anyway because it's my favorite subject to study. I don't think I'll ever be a "true mathematician" either, but I love the stuff regardless. x] -- AudreyChandler 08:35, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I like stats up to the point where you have to throw lots of calculus at it to make it work. :-O I'd have liked to study dynamical systems more, but I never got much beyond reading Mandelbrot's original book. :-/ -- ◄mendel► 08:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Swine flu? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 08:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * (reset) OK yeah, see, that: I'd have liked to study dynamical systems more, but I never got much beyond reading Mandelbrot's original book.? You are clearly much, much smarter than me. That's the kind of thing I wish slipped off my tongue, but my brain just doesn't work that way. It's frustrating. I'm insanely stubborn, though, so I refuse to stop trying to be smart like the cool science & math people. x]


 * And yesssss, the analytic parts of statistics/probability (where it starts to rejoin with abstract mathematics and gets into some weird, weird crap) is my favorite. I look at the course listing for stuff like "Time Series and Random Walks" and just... woo. Get lightheaded. Same with most crazy high-level math. Like everything on this list makes me so excited, even though I know I'm going to suck at it and get C's. It's just the coolest stuff in the world.


 * Oh, hell, reading that is making me miss Linear Algebra so much. Dammmmmmn. [0,0,1,0] OK. A little vector hit, just to keep me steady. And... maybe just one little matrix transform too... -- AudreyChandler 09:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Clearly I just sound smarter. And there was a good dynamic systems group where I was, and I was curious about the theory behind fractals and such. So that's why I can say stuff like that and mean it. :) UCB's very nice, I wish I could say I'd studied there. ;)
 * I like abstract algebra better than linear; I wouldn't want to have missed my training in Mathematical Logic even though I got it off a textbook I found on the flea market in 12th grade; Set Theory and the Incompleteness and Unpredicability stuff is also entertaining but mostly useless (read Gödel Escher Bach by Hofstadter instead ;-), and the stuff that is really sexy because it looks as if it had applications that nobody has found yet are Metric Differential Geometry, Elementary Differential Topology, and especially both Elementary Algebraic Topology and Geometry. Combinatorics again is pretty basic "must know" from my view and Mathematical Methods for Optimization is what I wish I knew more of. And do Number Theory to go into cryptography, that's sexy as well. If you like, you can deduce my tastes in rational thinking from those picks :) - and also deduce that I'm better at working with algorithms than doing complex calculus (pun intended). -- ◄mendel► 11:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops, kinda got distracted and lost 2 days here. Go figure. Anyway...


 * UCB's awesome & fractals are gorgeous, yeah. I'm not there yet, but plan to transfer there once I complete my lower-division coursework. As far as your assessments: Logic is really cool, yes, especially the more abstract mathematical areas (as opposed to the more flat-ground regions that tend to creep under the domain of Philosophy departments). I love Set Theory (but then I am obsessed with categorizing things in general :P) and Incompleteness looks great; not much experience with Abstract Algebra but god I'm looking forward to dipping my toes into it. Same with Geo/Topology, total mystery to me but I'm overflowing w. curiosity about it. Combinatorics is great, and I agree that Optimization would be great to know more about. Number Theory too, although crypto stuff isn't my strong suit.


 * Bah, basically if I just said "I like math" it would've been more efficient, huh? :P Every time I think I have an opinion about what area(s) of maths is(are) my favorite, another one drifts by and gets me all distracted again. It's like... really, really difficult candy. -- 68.165.236.86 01:35, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems that Wikia logged me out recently. -- AudreyChandler 01:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Math is candy that doesn't make you fat. :) If you find something exciting, please share (use email if you think wiki is inappropriate) - I haven't looked at anything but highschool maths for a long time, and much of what I commented on is candy I never really tasted - but still would love to. (And do get yourself "Gödel Escher Bach" for a treat!) -- ◄mendel► 12:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Coding
Hi there,

is it okay with you if I... um... borrow some coding from your Archived Talk Pages? Note: we've done this before. I'm not asking if it's legal, I'm asking if it's okay with you. I found it and used it before thinking to ask, in case you notice it. If you wish me to remove it I'll do so at once.

Also, if you ever need a favour on the Wiki though doubt I could do something here that you can't, in-game, or whatever, please do give me a shout. I do owe you quite a few favours at this stage... A F K When Needed 18:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, ok. There's quite a lot of stuff that you could do if I ever learned to delegate. ;-) [The first thing you could do is add

/* let me set line height on paragraphs */ p { line-height:inherit; }
 * to monobook.css or monaco.css (whichever skin you're using), check to see that the book section on my userpage looks better now, and report any line spacing related problems you happen to see on the wiki.] -- ◄mendel► 02:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC) & 02:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, I did both, considering I could always change later. I mean... if a user called A_F_K_When_Needed/monobook.css or A_F_K_When_Needed/monaco.css tried to register, I'd take exception to their name. Considering both pages are "mine", I might as well :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No problems with your page... except...Michael Mendelsohn · Miguel El Mendson still appears over Edit History Move Watch at the top of the screen. Just thought I'd let you know. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, should've said before. I'm using Monaco, except it looks f ugly, so I'm going with the Admin's Monaco skin instead. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. If you see any line spacing problems on the wiki anywhere in the near future, let me know. :) -- ◄mendel► 13:49, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aye, cap'n A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Saved from [fail] - thank you!
Thanks for saving me from the worng (sic) advice. (I wrote the correct switch and then [d'oh!] forgot to change it from my copy/paste.) I appreciate the assist. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I only did it so you don't always have to thank Felix for editing your comments. ;-) (And I didn't do it for you, anyway.) -- ◄mendel► 10:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But I love thanking Felix for editing my comments! (Well, truthfully, I love laughing at loud after he figures out a clever way to sneak a skill into the discussion.)
 * And, okay, so I thank you for making sure that IP got good advice. (Never mind that it made my advice appear correct.) :÷)   &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 10:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, why didn't you thank Felix then for correcting your advice? ;-) (I guess I'm just not used to being thanked for things I think little of, since everything else goes mostly unthanked.) -- ◄mendel► 13:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

RL money opinion please
An aside before I begin. Rose, I don't doubt you'll see this and have an opinion on it... don't feel you can't say hi and make a few points here. Right-o, to business, then. Mendel, you're a particularly intelligent person with vast amounts of wisdom... please tell me you agree with me on this. Spending RL monies on cosmetic purposes = spending RL monies on cosmetic purposes. If you're getting an Obsidian Edge to replace your Short Sword, or buying a make over, you're spending RL money on the game, with nigh on the same goal, to change the appearance of your in game avatar. If you happen to agree with me here, WoTs are welcome if the mood strikes you :-) If you don't agree with me... well, not quite as welcome then ;) A F K When Needed 20:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars is a game. It has rules. These rules mean that getting an Obsidian Edge is a reward for gameplay, or an in-game good that can be traded for. If I "buy" in-game objects for RL money, I'm not playing by the rules any longer. One could say that either I'm not playing ANet's GuildWars (and neither do the people who don't fight in HA), or that I'm cheating at it. I'm not playing the same game everyone else is - and I'd have to lie when somebody asks me where I got my nice Obsidian Edge. -- ◄mendel► 21:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does everyone take it that way... ¬_¬
 * I'm saying they're one and the same. Not saying that you should be able to do either, saying they're the same so you should be able to do neither. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC) And thank you for implying I buy GW gold...
 * I got that, and I tried to explain why they're not the same. -- ◄mendel► 21:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The difference is, plain and simple, that Anet has made some rules for the game, if you break those they will ban you when they find out. You can't compare these two because they are in different rule system. Think of it as the "right to bear arms" in America versus most(if not any) European country. The action(owning a firearm) is the same, but the rules are different.
 * The way i read it Mendel didn't imply anything. however, reading your comment makes it seem like you're desperately searching for some kind of justification for buying ingame goods with real life currency, but as with anything in text. The way it's read depends on the reader -- Viruzzz 21:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The stylist allows you to revise a decision you made earlier in the game, much like the Profession Changer does. Buying an Obsidian Edge allows you to skip part of the game and still get the reward. -- ◄mendel► 22:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Is this a continuation of this topic? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 22:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to be. And thanks for the invite to comment, AFK.  I already explained my opinion there, in the fact that I disagree that money is only useful for cosmetic things, but can be used to buy gameplay advantage in GW1 and inheritance in GW2, and with that your argument is flawed, you're comparing apples to oranges.  I will not repeat my entire post again here, so please just read in the link Entropy posted.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 22:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Moving Contributions
Hi there, is there a way for me to shift contributions from user to user A F K When Needed 13:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No. You made new start, remember? Moving contribs defeats that. And what's the point, anyway? -- ◄mendel► 14:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ¬_¬
 * I made the new account for a few reasons, including to clear potential confusion. If you want to see my new start read this page again then go to ST's UserPage. No SockPuppet here, mate. It's me and I'm not hiding it. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just post the link on your new userpage. Special:Contributions/Suicidal Tendencie.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems like the ability to move contributions would be a little too abusable, even if it was limited to sysops. --Macros 20:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if we had it, I don't see the point? -- ◄mendel► 06:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Everyone's a little proud of his or her contributions, mendel. It's human nature. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then they shouldn't switch accounts. :-P But yeah, maybe we can make like GuildWars and sell renamings now. (We could if this wasn't a Wikia wiki, too!) And his contributions are still his contributions, much like Marvin's are mine. -- ◄mendel► 06:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

can't join IRC (+r)
I'm not sure why, but I can't join the gwiki IRC. It gives this message: "#gwiki Cannot join channel (+r)" any idea why I can't join and how I could be able to join again?--El_Nazgir 14:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Come on in! -- ◄mendel► 15:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * +r is racist mode; only native English-speaking Anglo-saxons can join. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is precisely why I wasn't in the channel, so I couldn't have fixed it? -- ◄mendel► 15:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuses and lies. Excuses and lies... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 15:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * +r is registered, I think, so only users who have a gamesurge account and are auth'ed can get in.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 17:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The joke dropped 23 when you killed it. http://www.gamesurge.net/userchanmodes/chan -- ◄mendel► 18:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops. I set mode +r the other day when I gave "half op" status to Belar. I guess this is why Salad is channel owner and not me. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 00:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * M.mendel used Animate Joke Minion! part of Nazgir's original question had not been answered, and I can't leave a perfectly valid question unanswered :<  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ...this is getting strange now...
 * *uses RoJ on the minion* b-bye A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Great, you just re-killed the joke...--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 17:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A joke?
 * Like this? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:05, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Semantic MediaWiki
Thank you for the comprehensive-looking reply on my talk page. I will invite our local pusher Genealogy:User:Phlox to look at it. You and PanSola may compare notes with him or just look at his recent contributions to see if you might have anything to offer one another. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Local pusher sounds ominous. [[Image:Wikismiley.svg |:)|16px]] Thank you! -- ◄mendel► 06:09, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

On Edit Fire
Mendel is on Edit Fire xD Nice --   † F1 ©  Talk  09:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You can do the bounties if you like. I need to add something for the old dates before we can do the combat challenges. -- ◄mendel► 09:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well Can't do it right now I'm have school thingy. But Will do If I'm home (2 hours or so) -- F1Sig.png  † F1 ©  Talk  09:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a problem with the template. Some give 2 types of faction like this one: Kunvie Firewing/Zaishen Quest -- F1Sig.png  † F1 ©  Talk  12:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but just use Allegiance for Luxon/Kurzick. -- ◄mendel► 13:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah saw it. Tx ;P-- F1Sig.png  † F1 ©  Talk  13:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've also removed the "gives XXX points" categories, if we do need them, we can autocat these easily. See Template talk:ZquestInfo. -- ◄mendel► 13:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * K, Well I think the Bounties are done now :D -- F1Sig.png  † F1 ©  Talk  13:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed they are! Good job! -- ◄mendel► 14:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes Mendel we did a dam good job to day :P -- F1Sig.png  † F1 ©  Talk  14:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Combat
Zaishen Combat is done, SIR! --   † F1 ©  Talk  17:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job, private! Your mom will be proud of you! -- ◄mendel► 21:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Page editing disabled, but not?
I just logged onto the wiki a few minutes ago, but I get "view source" on every page instead of "edit" But as evidenced by this comment, it works the same and doesn't actually stop me... Any idea why that is? Viruzzz 10:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If that issue is not yet resolved, it should go onto the staff noticeboard "report a wiki bug" in the sidebar); include skin and browser. -- ◄mendel► 16:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See User talk:Entropy. One wishes there'd be a notice or something... -- ◄mendel► 16:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Wiki
Hi Mendel! Please help out on my new wiki =) A F K When Needed 18:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * btw, going to check with Angela before going any further with the site, just in case A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dunno if you think it's a stupid idea or what... but... just to let you know, Angela gave the go-ahead, so I'm gonna start working on it now. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:46, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Moo!
Thanks! :D RoseOfKali 04:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

 __________ ( Moo!<3  ) --        O          O   ^__^ o (oo)_______ (__)      )\_                ||w||  \                ||     ||  __________ (    ... ) --         O          O   ^__^          o<font color="Red"><- (xx)<font color="Red">-- _____             (<font color="Red">__ )       )\_ <font color="Red">|| ||w|| \ ||    || Aw look at the pritty cow. No I don't want to kill it! Well Maybe I do want it but I will not do it! Oke I will do it. But I would Injoy it. A screw this. It will be a blast! :P --  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  09:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Now go and eat it, so you won't be hungry anymore, and we can scip all this eating/cannibalism BD. Ok? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

^__^          <font color="Red"><- (xx)<font color="Red">-- || <font color="Red">^   || (<font color="Red">__ )  ||-<font color="Red">| --M|| _/ <font color="Red">||  <font color="Red">| ________)/ Eat a Dead cow? Why should I eat a cow that's already dead? --  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©   Talk  09:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Go and bbq it you moron! It's nice weather, so beer + bbq = Tha winzzzz. And you are really creeping me out with the eating of alive things. You disgust me! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 09:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ne bbq takes way to long. I just eat it raw. It's just a Shame that's dead... and

--  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  10:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * /sigh. I give up. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone really needs therapy... I wonder whom that would be... o_O RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 08:15, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Too bad he won't read this till next week. But the answer to the question isn't very hard to find.... Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So who wants the spare sense of humor I got lying around? ;) -- ◄mendel► 23:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably the cow. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe if you spread it to the whole GW community we might find the horribly awful skill updates ANet throws around to be great in the same way Battlefield Earth is an awesome movie if you watch it because it's so bad it's hilarious --Gimmethegepgun 04:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

reverse engineering dept
Entropy (C) 18:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not doing nuffin until we have a proper Gift of the Traveler icon. But getting the Zquest SMWified is what I'll do next I got a free morning, and doing the mainpage off that seems simple; and doing the two Nicks is thrown in free after that. :) -- ◄mendel► 20:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Who are you?
Mendel when I was working on my home work and my brain started to work for a bit. Somthing crosses my mind. What and who are you in game! It's a mistory (eh)! What Prof? What Armor? What campaigns? PvE, PvP or PvX? Social or a loner? Well? And now it's not that I hate to make my school work or that I'm easly distr... Ow look a bird --  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  11:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not many people know, though I was at our Wintersday party. I am in a guild, but I must admit my partner is more active in GW and keeps us the officer status. -- ◄mendel► 11:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wo wait a sec! You were on the Wintersday party!!! Did i meet you without knowing who you were!? -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  11:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)



Yes people it's a fact. Mendel is in fact a reall dude! Not a bot or somthing High and Mighty!! Yeah I know I'm Shocked 2! --  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  11:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I shall find you Mendel! The trail stopes here and once again I wander in the unknow But I shall find you and the Statue of Shiny things! All I need is a nice Theme song: fTrK4VQG93Y=1 -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  12:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Homework? Who makes homework these days? All I do is study for my exams... (not) Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 12:08, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't. Nut I have less than 3 weeks to finnish or I screwed up big time :P Never learned any thing btw or made homework. WHen I step out of school I forget evvery thing that has the letters S C H O and L in it -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  12:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You can see his cape there, too. Let the search for the muffinz mendel begin! A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My Intel Says it's a holyday cape. It sould be With a pawn not a star and Blue not Red. And I heart it's the cape from the Guild "Ice Tigers". And that it has a site. Btw If you find the name contact me. But Don't put it every were. Don't think Mendel would like it if every one knows :P -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  17:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Card Maker Sayes He knows the name of Mendel! -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  18:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * His real name or his ingame name? Coz I know both.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 18:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I Know his real name but you know his in game NAME! Gimmy me t On IRC that is -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  08:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Changing my prot level?
Ah, ok - sorry, all has been redeemed <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  15:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

search text bug
Looking for User:**The_Falling_One**/Games/ in search gives a text that is broken because the asterisks get interpreted as bulleted list somehow. The task is to find the message template concerned in Special:AllMessages and fix it, if possible. -- ◄mendel► 16:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I recently set up a private wiki with the same software running here, so I thought I'd give it a stab. It's probably MediaWiki:Noarticletext, but as to solving the problem, I had no luck.  It happens when the  is processed inside the first link.  Unfortunately, putting the &lt;nowiki&gt; tags around it also prevents processing the magic word.  I can't think of any way to insert those tags in there after it is processed, so it's likely it'll have to be addressed in the software itself.  Nwash 18:33, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What we really need is:
 * IF name contains *
 * Then (Do some funky stuff to make sure the * is in the text, or if impossible, just change the template so it blanks, and just says "this page does not exist, please consider starting a page, unfortunately it is impossile to show the link due to a bug in the code)
 * Else do what it normally does
 * Don't know if mediawiki can implement anything like this though <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  19:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why my solution isn't like that at all. :) The problem is solved. -- ◄mendel► 20:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for pointing out the correct MediaWiki page, NWash, that saved me some work especially as Special:AllMessages refuses to load tonight. -- ◄mendel► 20:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. Wished I could have helped more, but your wiki-fu is stronger than mine, so it's good you didn't need it.  The only thing I managed to determine is that problems exist with pages beginning with * or ;, presumably because after a magic word is processed, the text must be fed back to the parser function as if the rest of that line was a new line itself.  With just ParserFunctions, I didn't seem to have the tools available to fix it through just a message edit, and I didn't feel like digging through source code to trace what was happening.  Anyway, now I sleep.  Nwash 20:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just ParserFunctions was enough to solve it, though. :) -- ◄mendel► 21:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Kurzick/Luxon skill icons
Note to self: fix display of Kurzick/Luxon skills on my own skillbar template, and the other one. 1 2 3 -- ◄mendel► 19:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

DUDE
Seriously, is this you? If so - OMGYOUREALLYNEEDTOPLAYTHOSEGAMES!!!!! <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  00:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you're listed as my friend... I didn't know Steam publishes that much info about me, though. That sucks. -- ◄mendel► 01:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You can turn off public profiles <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  02:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Is "steam" really a synonym for "cloud", scientifically-speaking? -- AudreyChandler 00:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Steam is water vapor. Clouds are water vapor. To say they are the same doesn't logically follow from that, alas, but poetically it pretends to be a very deep statement. Or not. Quotation is just another name for words, I guess. -- ◄mendel► 05:52, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol. I thought clouds were actually condensed into liquid (ie, droplets), but minute enough to remain suspended. But idk really (despite learning about meteorology in like, 4 separate classes by now... x_x), which is why I asked out of curiousity. I really like "quotation is just another name for words", though. x] -- AudreyChandler 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You are, of course correct. I quote steam:
 * In common speech, steam most often refers to the white mist that condenses above boiling water as the hot vapor ("steam" in the first sense) mixes with the cooler air. This mist is made of tiny droplets of liquid water, not gaseous water, so it is no longer technically steam. Pure steam is present at the base of the spout of a steaming kettle where there is no visible vapor.
 * So scientifically, clouds are not steam, while colloquially, they are, but I was totally wrong stating they were vapor; this error occurred because I was translating the German word Wasserdampf, which, in German, is colloquially used for both meanings (the vapor and its clouds), too. Thank you for brnging this to my Cool thing you noticed that! -- ◄mendel► 07:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL. That's cool to know, thanks for summarizing it like that. I only had a vague sense of it, which is what caused me to ask. Now I can make assertions about the phase changes of water with much more confidence. And that is almost certain to make me very popular at every party, rave, and/or speakeasy I attend for the rest of my days. -- AudreyChandler 16:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that you will be attending more parties than you expect now. -- ◄mendel► 12:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Just read the ticket.
RSVP on User:Gigathrash/D&D IRC RP--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 00:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wednesday May 3
Time would be 10:00 a.m. Pacific Coast time, and about 7:00 pm Mendel's time. Note to mendel: I am using the MODERN system of days, not the sunset thing you mess around with. Reply wherever you feel is appropriate if this time is acceptable.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 07:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dang! I forget whom I lent my time machine to, so I doubt I can make it. However, June 3rd should be doable. :) -- ◄mendel► 14:19, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's off anyway, I totally screwed up the times, and I ended up scheduling something where I can't make it :|--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 16:42, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for solving my CSS problem
You're a diamond!! :D --Onteron (talk) 14:36, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Um Hi, sorry to bug you again *blushes* Please don't worry about this if you don't have time, but of course when I try to use it I run into more trouble.


 * My problem can be seen here:, on the first box, because there's not enough content, the box doesn't expand. What's the best way to make sure the box expands even where there's little content?


 * Thanks very much if you can help, I appreciate it, Onteron (talk) 21:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't see a solution right off, but I don't think it looks that bad as it is, either. -- ◄mendel► 22:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks --Onteron (talk) 22:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

A sincere apology
Exams + trying to start my own Wiki = less time here (thankfully exams are over now). I'm truly sorry for the lolwut late response A F K When Needed 10:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just so you don't start a fight with DKS01 over PvX adoption, that'll be fine. :) -- ◄mendel► 10:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I won't, I'll respond to whatever he actually means once, then stop posting there.
 * That was brilliant - containing nothing but, a touch of bitterness from Tanaric, perhaps? :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 10:53, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not bitter at all (and I never crossed contributions with Tanaric, he was gone when I joined); just kind of adding the personalities of you both together and getting apprehensive at the result. ;-P (Don't take this too seriously, please. :) -- ◄mendel► 13:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It would take much more for you personally to insult me. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's precisely what I mean, I don't (didn't) intend to insult you at all. -- ◄mendel► 13:47, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My apology for being unclear, then.
 * I understood that, I meant that you did not do so which, telling me not to take it too seriously hints you thought that you might, and because I know you, it would take a lot for you to insult me. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Sperm Boots
I saw your reply, so don't forget to add the userbox if you want to! =) Just copy 'n' paste it and it'll be done like dinner. Hope you liked my pic of the boots.

A F K When Needed 15:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed that box for you. -- ◄mendel► 16:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:04, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU MENDEL!!! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 16:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Quit it. :/ A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bahahaha! And since when are tadpoles white? O_o RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:48, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's his way of saying he thinks you should dye them green? Nwash 19:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Typing fial
[User_talk:Callisto_von_Drak]] should be at User_talk:Callisto_Von_Drake. Figured you might care :P --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  19:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A fial? :O A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Led astray by proper caps. -- ◄mendel► 19:59, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Now with 100% less fail!
Monday, June 8th 11:00 p.m. pst. Tell someone if you can't.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 17:00, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget!
--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 18:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Not duplicate
Hey Mendel, just here to say that This image is not quite the same as the loading screen for the desert. If you look closely, the beige rock in the lower-right hand corner is different from the loading screen.-- (Talk) (Contr.) 22:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a shield that has later been edited to be broken (I have that concept art) and desaturated to create the loading screen. -- ◄mendel► 23:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Capitalization
Are pages like Perfect salvage kit as a redirect to Perfect Salvage Kit necessary? When I type in "perfect salvage kit" into the search bar, it comes up with the correct page without a redirect. The only way I could see it being necessitated would be for red links (such as if someone tried linking to the correct page with incorrect capitalization), except even this wouldn't fix a link like " perfect salvage kit ". So could you explain to me why you're doing this? Thanks in advance-- (Talk) (Contr.) 22:28, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Try perfect salvage kit, it works. I am doing it to link more easily from wikianswers using an interwiki link. Maybe I should try changing that into a search link? -- ◄mendel► 22:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tried Perfect salvage kit in my sandbox, and I got double-redirected, which would make sense since it is searching for the section labeled "Acquisition" on the redirect page. Don't know what I'm doing differently than you. I guess I'll go try it again.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 23:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just re-tried it, and it still gives me a double-redirect. Check it out here.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 23:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You have redirected your sandbox to a redirect, of course that is a double redirect. Up there you write about a link, like the one I put in my response, and it does work, but of course we frown on links to redirects. -- ◄mendel► 23:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see what happened there. Well the reason I brought this up in the first place is because when I tried to fix a double-redirect here today, I found that capitalizing "Companion" in Animal companion simply forced another redirect. I essentially changed one redirect to another, and I didn't understand why the "Animal Companion" to "Animal companion" redirect was necessary. (Of course, this is an opposite situation, since the redirect is capitalized and the main page is not.)--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 23:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling on.
Mendel, I have learned much from and often been amused by you, so thank you. A F K When Needed 12:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But not his charr name. His char name is still the best secrect kept by many. Roar! -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  12:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A "thank you" is always appreciated, so thank you! :-) -- ◄mendel► 12:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the thank you. I smell Balistic PvE coming over here to get his revenge... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * hmm? &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic
 * I envisaged Mendel and I getting into a thank you for the thank you for the thank you chain while you came in and encouraged spam on his Talk Page... since... you know... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

licensing
Could we? &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic

My RC widget is a widget of your countributions :P
^ A F K When Needed 23:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Your bodies will ornate my chambers forever
The next IRC RP will be held at 5:00 UTC (10:00 p.m. pacific) THURSDAY Tell someone somewhere if you can't go. Also, RT, your schedule is basically opposite of everyone else's. Soz again.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  06:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Scraping
I suppose this goes here. Note that besides a greeting, this is pretty much an unprompted solicitation, solely because I was reading Quizzical's acronym article and went to the talk page. So hey! And I saw you were doing scraping, so I'd like to ask you to take screenshots and post them here: User:RevelationOrange/Scraping Project. I apologize if I'm only bothering you. Otherwise, see you around! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by RevelationOrange (talk &bull; contribs) 02:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC).


 * Actually, new comments go to the bottom. Signing with ~ or the button on the edit bar is also a good idea. If I am checking my progress, I usually load "Cartography made easy" with texmod, so I likely won't be posting screenshots. -- ◄mendel► 02:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget!
Tonight at 10:00--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 19:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tomorrow at 7, but no, I haven't forgotten. -- ◄mendel► 20:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Help pls
Template:TitleBar/Gamer has errors in it, and my attempts to fix them don't seem to be right. See also Template_talk:AccountTitleBars. RoseOfKali 00:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also Template:TitleBar/Cartographer, see my pic on Template talk:TitleBar/Cartographer &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic 01:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks to me like Evenfall ninja-fixed them, for I can no longer find the issues you are describing. Nwash 05:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it looks good now, thanks. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Bureaucrats at Official Wiki
Do you have any strong opinions about how to go about voting for B'crats to the benefit of the official wiki (or any wiki, I s'pose)? However, since I don't know the nominees that well, I'm looking for ways to help me vote. Here's my current thinking:
 * I vote with ppl who I might support for B'crat (if they themselves were running)
 * I vote opposite to ppl who have only passing acquaintance with graciousness, good faith, and can't seem to agree to disagree.

Actions tend to speak louder than words, so I have yet to find the candidates' statements to be helpful...however, I'm not sure I could do justice by looking at all the contributions of all the candidates. Disclaimer: I am not asking about specific names.

Any suggestions? Thanks! &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 20:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I follow the goings-on at the offical wiki even less than I follow them here. As far as I am aware, a bureaucrat there mainly has to be a good arbiter; he has to be able to judge another person's actions fairly and wisely (no matter how fair and wise his own actions seem to you), and you might want to know which criteria and morals would be applied. (I'm sure Entropy can correct me if I get this wrong.) You might want to ask the people whom you think are suitable bureaucrats to explain their decision to you, maybe that's helpful. (I can't.) I'm sure I haven't told you anything new, but that's about all I can say. -- ◄mendel► 22:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This is helpful. Thanks! (I am also hoping that the usual lurkers contributors to your page will chime in.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 02:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The elections at GWW are a complete joke. Everything is already decided by their "IRCabal," a group of users that communicate almost exclusively through the #gww IRC channel, and that includes nearly all sysops and bureaucrats. Thus, I would suggest voting for whoever you think would be the most amusing. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, Felix is partially correct. I do think the elections on GWW are a complete joke (at least this time around they deleted the total nonsense candidates.. maybe there's hope?), but not because the in-crowd runs things. (How can they when it's pure vote count?..) They're jokes because: 1) people have no idea about bureaucrats/what they do and just vote because they can, or 2) people either cast their votes for bs candidates and oppose the good ones for lulz, or they wait until the last second to vote just so they can tip a close race. Even though I don't particularly care for GWW I think it's cool that you're asking about it TEF :) --  Shadowcrest  06:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that they run the wiki, so a new bureaucrat couldn't have any impact on it anyway. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, gossip :-) (Actually, this helps me put some of the discussions in context.) Thanks, all.
 * BTW: I believe it's easy for 3-4 ppls to swing elections like this: Few people vote => you only need 10-15 ppl together to assure an outcome you like. (Not saying that's what is happening there; I'm only positing how it could be done.)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 06:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, but Felix! There is a new Bureaucrat this time. And I do believe he will make an impact, as he already has/does.
 * TEF - I would recommend just copying all of my votes. I can explain them to you on IRC or something later if you want. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 05:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Since you insisted
Here's your request in writing. I insist on being demoted, as I believe I am more a liability than an asset at the current time. If you want to block me as well, I won't complain, but I won't ask for that this time. Entropy (C) 22:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I ask you for 7 days, so I can consider this unusual request that comes out of the blue. -- ◄mendel► 22:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * [ Special:Log/block] &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic 23:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

so why block her?  see w:c:pvx:User talk:Misery we've always held that wikibans don't carry over <Vili>	though the chance is small, he's obviously going to everything he can to get around his block and that's ok 	<Vili>	and I'm not going to put up with his shit then don't read his shit <Vili>	he shouldn't be allowed to post it in the first place untrue -- ◄mendel► 00:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That exchange tookplace between the block and the unblock. -- ◄mendel► 00:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Drive-by comment by a user with no opinion:
 * " we've always held that wikibans don't carry over." I disagree. While it has been our general standard that wikistatus doesn't transfer, we have made exceptions. For example, I believe we blocked Raptors on sight (I can't find this in the logs, and it doesn't help that the wikia move fucked up the prior logs- I just vaguely remember this being the case), and of course Brains12 was promoted almost entirely on work from gww. I don't even really use GWW and I can tell you that if our standard was to block, Lena would be one of the first gone.
 * However, as you [mendel] said on IRC, we've also seen that roles don't carry over- early R.Phalange/Brains12 and cross-wiki Vili act like different people, to list 2 examples. So, as you put it, "so we must allow trolls to decide how to behave on guildwiki."
 * I do not really know which side I agree with, and do not wish to advocate for one or the other. I just thought I'd point out a few things and compile the arguments for those who, like me, don't know what they think. -- Shadowcrest  01:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it should be a case-by-case basis. Lena I know is definitely leaning towards the obvious side, and only a confirmation of the identity may be enough to take action.  At the same time, Lena is a common name in Eastern Europe, so you gotta be careful, I don't know anything about the Dattebayo part.  People who insist on continuously trolling the official wiki without any useful contributions to compensate have no business here until they redeem their actions there.  Some people act differently on wikis, but I've never seen such a polarized case of being a troll on one and a useful contributor on the other.  A small probation period may be given as opposed to immediate action to give this person a chance to show what they're here for, but at first offense suspension should follow.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Random Was Signature?
. May I ask why you signed... no comment? --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  19:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching that! -- ◄mendel► 19:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

linkie
You Sir, never cease to amaze and command respect. A F K When Needed 22:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just editing experience. -- ◄mendel► 22:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just social skills imo
 * ...or out ranking a sysop pulling rank...
 * Either way, I am grateful. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't outrank Warwick, and she hasn't pulled rank; she's just claimed to know better than you, but that's not why she's a sysop. -- ◄mendel► 22:56, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...um....
 * Perhaps my age bested my vocabulary, I was under the impression that to "pull rank" was to say "Me B'Crat, U Sysop, Me Pro, U Baed". :P
 * I never said that she's a Sysop so she can troll... I... fail to understand that message. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can say "Me B'Crat, U Sysop" when Warwick abuses her powers; if she, for example, had banned you; Warwick is aware of that. But when she doesn't use her sysop powers, she is an editor like me and you, and in that I cannot outrank her; first, because all editors are equal, and secondly, because I couldn't even if I tried - she'd shoot me down fast and soar away. :) -- ◄mendel► 23:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you play HA a lot, you can out-/rank her, even as an editor ;o --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  08:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's important to remember that, although representing GuildWiki, and the admin team when they edit (as they are commuinty discussed sysops, and are considered to have the support of the commuinty behind them) sysops and b'crats don't have any extra say when it comes to content (other than commuinty respect). If warwick mentioned that the decision was an administritive decision, that would be pulling rank, and may indeed have reprecussions. It's a complicated policics system, but it works [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  09:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything you can describe in 3 sentences isn't complicated, RT. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ORLY? Explains Quantum theory in 3 sentences [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  09:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pfft, QM is just Quantum Fetish Mechanics without the rule 34. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  09:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Extremely [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  10:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Quantum theory
Light is electromagnetic radiation that moves as if it was a wave phenomen, but gives off energy as if it were small particles (small particle = quantum). Two sentences left over to refine. -- ◄mendel► 11:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FU [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  11:42, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Because I know you like looking at them
--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 07:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm sry mendel. Your no longer my god. He offerd me Eternal Darkness and to become his minion and Spreat Terror and Dread. So he's my God-King now. None shall stand in our way. The word shall shiver in terror Darkness will once again be unlicht upon the world! MUHAHAHAHAHA ow and he made a card so well MUHAHAHAHAHAHA --  <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  07:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I cover in faer b4 ur atorciuos speling! Btw, "eternal darkness" is far easier to achieve - just stop paying your electricity bill!
 * The cards look great, though; one can see you two are fighting the light! -- ◄mendel► 08:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You'll even save some cash to buy black spraypaint/plastic bags to put on your windows for Eternal Darkness+. Then, get some shades. Or a knife. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  08:38, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 08:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You've outdone yourself, again.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 09:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Excellent choice of character portraits. -- ◄mendel► 09:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Favicon
What was done to make our favicon show up instead of Wikia's? --JonTheMon 17:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikia fixed their sitewide fail, apparently. -- ◄mendel► 19:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Does that mean I can stop redoing the favicon/looking for the original one? :\ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 23:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Blogs
Did you know there's a green button that you can click on to "Post Comme"? :) A F K When Needed 11:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- ◄mendel► 11:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have found that easily :/ A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why I posted it for you. :) -- ◄mendel► 11:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * =) I just don't like giving you work to do instead of doing it myself giving Wikia people work to do. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:53, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Me.
Given up yet, I wonder? A F K When Needed 22:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The main character died, now WTF do we do?
The next IRC RP will be held at 5:00 UTC (10:00 p.m. pacific) MONDAY for most people, tuesday for Mendel Tell someone somewhere if you can't go. Also, RT, your schedule is basically opposite of everyone else's. Soz again, again.--Łô√ë <font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ  05:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Validation
Cbk980jV7Ao

It's 16 minutes, so be sure to watch the development after the first bit. -- ◄mendel► 15:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Soo... Beautiful... What I great story I'm going to cry now :O Man that was a long Utube movie thingy -- F1Sig.png <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="darkred"> † F1 ©  Talk  13:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's going on my ipod.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Blue">îğá† <font color="Red">ħŕášħ 13:06, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Uploading GW music to wiki
I know that I had this discussion with you sometime in the past but I can't find it anymore. What did we decide was the legalities of uploading the GW soundtrack to wiki as .ogg files? Entropy (C) 18:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Read up on ANet's license, as far as I know any asset from the game (which presumably includes the soundtracks) is fair cop to get uploaded, but it likely won't apply to extra soundtracks you could buy since they were not distributed by ANet. -- ◄mendel► 19:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The license allows the use of game content for noncommercial, personal use. While uploading it to a wiki is arguably noncommercial, I truly doubt it'd be considered personal use under the law.  I also doubt that you could successfully claim that uploading something as significant as a soundtrack, which is essentially a complete work (or more than one, really) in and of itself being as individual songs are considered sufficient to merit their own copyright, would be covered by fair use.  In short, I sincerely doubt it's permissible under the law or ArenaNet's license, and as the soundtracks are still being sold (search for Guild Wars--this site doesn't seem to provide a way to link to search results), I'm sure the legal issue would come up.  Nwash 12:46, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So why are we uploading character screenshots here again? Legally? -- ◄mendel► 13:32, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Rawwwr roaRRR RAWWWWR roaaaaarRR roooaRrr.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Blue">îğá† <font color="Red">ħŕášħ 13:34, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Shut up, bear. -- ◄mendel► 13:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * raaaawwwr. D:--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Blue">îğá† <font color="Red">ħŕášħ  13:47, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "May I use ArenaNet and/or Guild Wars content, i.e., images, text, animations or sound files, on my web page?" And the answer is "yes". From a copyright standpoint, "web page" is public use, so the word "private" in ArenaNet's answer carries no legal meaning, except that they can "request removal of our content at any time, for any reason". So uploading the content here is legal, but may not last; to decide that, you'd have to ask ArenaNet. The sound files included with the game as sold are "Guild Wars content", the extra sound files sold via DirectSound are probably not. -- ◄mendel► 13:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops... looks like you're right. When skimming the EULA, I missed the second part of this sentence:  "NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers grant to Members the right to use the Game Content for noncommercial, personal purposes, including in connection with creating noncommercial fan fiction or fan web sites regarding the same."  I would be surprised if they didn't quickly ask for removal, but it does sound like someone would be in the clear up to that point.  Time to figure out how to extract the music files, not that I even care about uploading them anywhere...  Nwash 14:18, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already got most of the music files... how do we change it to .ogg? &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic
 * There's also the fact that companies are far more anal retentive about music than, well, anything. It may be technically legal, but lawsuits don't need to have any basis in law. I doubt it would come to an actual lawsuit, but we'd get an almost immediate "cease and desist," and then have to delete them all. More trouble than it's worth, imo. --Macros 00:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

. In other news, we don't have any license templates for anything other than images. Entropy (C) 00:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fansite kit license comes closest. -- ◄mendel► 00:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Now, could we request this? ^_^ (also, why does MW: work but not MediaWiki: ? >_>) Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Because MediaWiki is a namespace for system messages on MediaWiki software. Nwash 05:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Requested and installed (thanks, Uberfuzzy!). As you can see, your  magically changed into a music player, with an icon that links to the File: page. You can also do
 * to get rid of the http://images.wikia.com/common/releases_200907.1/extensions/3rdparty/OggHandler/info.png (there's a link to the File: page when you click "More..." as it plays): Guilds at War.ogg
 * to display a link: File:Guilds at War.ogg.
 * I hear it also runs .ogg videos. -- ◄mendel► 09:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is so cool. :D I'd test a video but I am not sure what we could do with that - do we even have any videos (for Guild Wars) linked on wiki? Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 04:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean, like Guild Wars trailers? ;-P -- ◄mendel► 09:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * D: you people... tell me how to change mp3 &rarr; ogg &mdash; <font color="#7777CC">Balistic
 * Audacity, silly (you might need to get LAME as well) [[File:Thoughtful's RT sig test.jpg]]<font color="Black">Talk  18:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You could also type in "mp3 to ogg" or such in Google. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 02:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikia impressed me...
I had expected over 13kb to take a while but it was instant. Or are my standards just too low? A F K When Needed 22:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikia only needs to update the file, your browser is the software that interprets it. And personal .css seems to update better than the sitewide .css does, I almost always need to purge that to see the change. -- ◄mendel► 23:17, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiAnswers Widget
Howdy, gov. What with discussing the location of the discussion (of which I appear to have lost ~50% of) 'n' whatnot, I don't think I ever thanked you, so, thank you. A F K When Needed 12:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Vipermagi
Honestly, Mendel. Your time is precious, and that issue is of no importance. Can't you forget about it and out-do Wikia people at being knowledgeable when it comes to wikis, or help a user in distress or locate and eat a nice cake or something? I tried in my own way to lighten the mood but... dunno if Warwick got that and played along or didn't get it and... did the same thing I was trying to. :P A F K When Needed 21:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is that your way often rubs people the wrong way. For example, telling me how to spend my time. And honestly, Vipermagi getting pissed off at you not leaving him alone when he wanted none of that conversation any more is more important to me than SunRayvenous, because Viper is a very valuable person to this wiki and has been for a long time. Don't get me wrong, we like to have you here, but could you please try to not piss people off so much? Try to understand what they mean even when they seem to say something else? Be less critical and more understanding? You've made great strides towards that end since you started here, keep going! -- ◄mendel► 00:19, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

A favor
Hey, you know far more about wiki coding than me. I mean like far as in, well, really far. So I wanted you to take a look at this page I did Star Wars The Old Republic Trooper and tell me what you think. Maybe a suggestion or two on the template I used, it isn't very good. I know you are busy so its no hurry or anything, just when you get a chance. Talk 01:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)