Talk:Scythe

attack speed
Me and a guildie did several tests and it seems that the attack speed is equal to a hammer (1.75) and visibly slower than a spear (1.5). Please, someone confirm this and edit the info. Confirmed. I did several tests and it was 1,75.


 * Sorry, the 1 per 1.5s attack rate is my fault, I must've messed up the count the first time. I timed it again and counted 17 hits in 30 seconds, which works out to around 1 attack per 1.75 seconds within a pretty small margin of error. I'll retest the spear attack speed too. -- Gordon Ecker 03:15, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * 40 attacks in 60 seconds with a spear. At least I got that one right. -- Gordon Ecker 03:25, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * When you test a weapon speed it is best if you compare it with another weapon (wielded at the same time by a different player) - for example one attacks a dummy on Isle of the Nameless with a hammer, the other - with a scythe. In such a case it is quite obvious if the speeds are different and which weapon is faster. Maybe someone should try comparing the paragon spear with a sword or axe, just to be sure it is slower (after all 1.33 is very close to 1.5).

multiple targets
can hit multible enemies at one time? SWEET, a melee weapon that always behaves as a hundred blades that hits only once? Detraya fullvear
 * Wow, holy crap. I was hoping for some skills that could replace my now-R/W's Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe; if the weapon itself does that already I'm good to go. --Black Ark 13:15, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * We know it can hit multiple targets with some kind of "whirling, spinning attack". Like Black Ark said, we don't know if this attack is an inherent property of the weapon or just an attack skill like Cyclone Axe. -- Gordon Ecker 18:31, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Just remember Spiteful Spirit and Empathy d-: - 18:35, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * well, im hoping for an innate weapon property, maybe the damage of a dagger, the speed of a hammer, and aoe innate? Detraya fullvear
 * I suspect that it might work like double strikes with daggers, with a 'whirlwind strike' chance for each attack dependant on how many points you have in Scythe Mastery. -- Gordon Ecker 02:34, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Makes sense to me. Still, at least a single controlled splash-strike would be nice, focused or unfocused. I'm guessing we'll get at least that (all other melee-weapons have at least one such attack), but hey - the waiting's for the PVPPE. --Black Ark 02:36, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It may also be the primary atribute, with each point in, you gain a 3% chance to hit a group. -- Detraya fullvear
 * If the area attack is the passive effect of the primary attribute I hope it's not restricted to scythe attacks. That would pretty much tie the primary attribute to scythe builds and force any viable build that focuses on the primary attribute to have at least 9 points of Scythe Mastery, unlike Critical Strikes and Strength, which benefit swords, axes, hammers, bows, daggers and theoratically any future non-wand, non-staff weapons including scythes and spears. Right now the two attributes with the narrowest passive effects are Divine Favor, which is compatible with builds focused on any of the other three Monk attributes, and Spawning Power, which is compatible with builds focused on Communing or Restoration Magic, as well as builds focused on ranger spirits. And Spawning Power has a pretty good energy management elite, as well as another skill that's useful for minion bombers. -- Gordon Ecker 03:55, 21 July 2006 (CDT)


 * No weapon-proficiency has been primary attribute so far, I don't see it happening for the Scythe either. Especially since the Dervish' God-Morphing seems like a far better candidate for the primary... also, consider that secondary Assassins can still pump Dagger-mastery for all they're worth to get Dual Strikes. It's just that a primary warrior (...or ranger, or assassin) can put more ranks into his or her weapon of choice thanks to runes and attribute-gear, which means they do more damage (and have a bigger chance to crit/doublestrike) with it. --Black Ark 04:03, 21 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I should've been clearer, I wasn't talking about Scythe Mastery being a primary attribute, and I don't think Detraya was either. I see four possibilities.
 * Scythe Mastery's a standard non-primary weapon attribute that just happens to have multi-target attacks like Cyclone Axe. In other words, like Swordsmanship, Marksmanship, Axe Mastery and Hammer Mastery, affecting critical hit rates.
 * Scythe Mastery's a non-primary weapon attribute with a bonus like Dagger Mastery, with more points affecting both the critical rate and the chance to execute a special attack (double strikes for Dagger Mastery, sweeping / whirling / splash damage attacks for Scythe Mastery).
 * Scythe Mastery's a standard, non-primary weapon attribute. Sweeping / whirlwind / splash damage attacks are governed by DPA (Dervish Primary Attribute), which affects all melee attacks.
 * Scythe Mastery's a standard, non-primary weapon attribute. Sweeping / whirlwind / splash damage attacks are governed by DPA, which only affects scythe attacks, making it the single most narrow and restrictive primary attribute in Guild Wars. This is what I was talking about when I said restricting DPA to scythe attacks would tie DPA to scythe builds and force DPA builds to have at least 9 points in Scythe Mastery, unlike Strength, Expertise and Critical Strikes which are compatible with all weapon-proficiency attributes.
 * Option four sounds extremely unlikely, and Scythe Mastery as a primary attribute sounds even more unlikely. -- Gordon Ecker 22:16, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
 * im hoping for option 3 :P Detraya fullvear
 * it is possible this could work as double strikes for extra hits? 4% chance of hitting an additional target when attacking? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 03:51, 22 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I strongly suspect that Scythe Mastery and whirlwind attacks will work almost exactly like Dagger Mastery and double strikes, with a chance somewhere between 2% and 4% per attribute rank depending on the damage and attack speed of scythes. -- Gordon Ecker 04:41, 22 July 2006 (CDT)

Interestingly, the attack radius does not appear to be centered on the wielder or the target, but, rather, at some point between them. -- Gordon Ecker 01:11, 28 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yup. You come in close to give a Dervish a hug while it's attacking and you'll end up with a face full of scythe. I'm really pleased thusfar. Sure, a bigger range might've been nice, but it'd be decidedly broken. --Black Ark 01:49, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

I think that the scythe can hit foes adjesent to your target and infront of the dervish himself, or something like that. Also atack speed is 1,75 sec., just tested it.

Hi all, just got a Max Vampiric Upgrade (+5 health on every hit) for my scythe and it rocks! the health output is a diffinant gain while in a group of foe's as of the AoE dammage. So with each swing, i'm getting 15 health. So over 3.5 secs, I will have gotten 26 health in total due to the strike rate and -1 health degenaration. Oh, and also, it seems like the positioning of the foe doesn't matter, only that they are adjacent to you. It also seems to me that the foe's that get the AoE damage recieve more damage over more time. I don't have an account yet so just call me Xoorauch

9- 41????????
omg. here comes the wild blow spammers.
 * It's better than what I hoped for. I was expecing something along the lines of either 4-40 or 20-30. For Wild Blow you'd need a W/D or D/W, and I'm sure we'll see those - but glancing over the available skills, I'd say that any combination of Dervish with Monk (for the enchantment-manipulation) or Necromancer (Exhausting Strike, life-steal) and Ranger (evasion-enchantments to go along with evasion-stances, yes please) seem also extremely feasible. I think I'm going to enjoy this class. --Black Ark 01:52, 28 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Got it! W/D with Primal Rage and wild blow. THINK about it. I played it against some Ziashen IWs (lack of distortion is thier bane), and I scored 190 something for criticals while using heali sig. Yeah. I gotta test it more. I also made a D/mo with judge's insihg,t but this is no where as interesting, I assure you. Silk Weaker 03:52, 28 July 2006 (CDT)
 * We might even see some interesting scythe-wielding assassins, they certainly have the crits for it. Will Nightfall do it? Will it rescue the poor, abused assassin-class from idiot-player-imposed mediocrity? Before you say "no", think of what Banishing Strike can do in combination with Spirit Walk. Remove all those cluttering combo-skills from your bar and take the healing/defensive material from both classes instead, wahey! --Black Ark 04:03, 28 July 2006 (CDT)


 * If Crit Strikes gives me an awesome chance to strike for 41 BASE damage I am so converting my sin to a scythe-wielder. >> Kessel 03:09, 30 July 2006 (CDT)

If Scythes are left the way they are, they have some nice potential for critical builds. Quite a few ways to go with this. Assassins Critical Strikes, Paragon's bring "Go for the Eye's!" to the mix, Warriors with Wild Blow or Primal Rage as well. Hopefully not to much will change on the inherent effect of the weapon before Nightfall release. Have to wait until release to see though.


 * I think it's good to link to this User:Gordon Ecker/W/D Primal Scythe to those who see the discussion. Also a point to add, Sins and Warriors have the highest crit hit. It's like this though, Siphon Strengh stronger than Primal Rage stronger than Critical Eye. I chose Primal Rage becuase Siphon Strength is a hex and only gives the crit chance to the one target, which would waste the fact that scythes are AoE. Wild Blow is nice too. So that's just a little observation for those who want to take advantage of the high maximum damage. Silk Weaker 06:39, 23 August 2006 (CDT)


 * The question here is now if I smack Wild Blow does it affect /all/ the hits in that one swing, i.e. do I hit three different foes for three criticals? Kessel 05:36, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
 * A friend and guildmate tested all warrior Strength based melee attack skills (and Wild Blow). Only Bull's Strike doesn't hit the target and two adjacent foes. 220.233.103.77 06:21, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

White Scythe
Wasn't there a sythe weapon already back in Guild Wars 1? I think it was called a "White Scythe" although it was a warrior weapon. I would like to know if they removed this weapon in order to make the Dervish, or if it is still there is it compatible with the Dervish scythe upgrades. I think the White Scythe was considered an Axe im not sure really. Help me understand... Totem of Fire &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.52.182.226 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:18, 19 August 2006 (CDT).
 * yes, White Scythe, but it's an Axe not a scythe. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:25, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Fluffwise, Tyrians had obviously never heard of scythes in the way that they are in Elona. So they used an axe for all their grain harvesting.

Multi-hit mechanism
Just starting a little bit on the AoE mechanism of the scythes, since the older one derailed off its original intent. I posted on GWO: The scythe range depends on 1) your position, 2) your distance to the target, 3) your target's position, and 4) positioning of other foes relative to your target. It's been fairly hard for me to quantify because the targets in the Isle of the Nameless have fairly bad positioning/collinearity, but here's my crack at it.

As usual with melee attacks, you can strike from adjacent (touch, which I'll abbreviate as adj) distance. Normally when you c-space, you will attack from "adjacent to foe" (atf) distance, i.e., right in their faces. The scythe's radius is roughly adj + ½atf, with the widest part of the radius at half that distance. The scythe carves out a swath in the shape of an ellipse/circle or rhombus - I haven't figured that part out yet. This the extra ½atf in the range is a Big Thing™ - it is why you can hit targets immediately behind you with the scythe on occasion, since I suppose their bodies are half-inside the radius, which rounds up to a "yes" in the Boolean check for the AoE.

You should keep in mind to choose targets carefully. Hitting something right next to you (atf) will likely hit something atf behind you. Attacking a target just at the outer reaches of your range can hit targets just slightly beyond that, one body space away (atf again). Positioning is a nuisance when you consider that mousing is the most accurate way of movement in GW and then you're likely to spend time clicking, and your target moves, or simply misclick a monster and start autoattacking it.

Your positioning is key, too. Try to get the maximum of 3 hits at once with a single swing - you will get the hang of it with a little practice in the Isle of the Nameless.

Any other guesses? I originally thought the source of the AoE was between you and the target, but then if you are adj to your target (your maximum range) but atf to one behind you, you won't hit the one behind you if the diameter of the range is adj. Of course, the ½atf adjustment I came up with could very well be the source of the AoE being between you and your target. *shrug* ~Seef II 19:35, 26 September 2006 (CDT)