Talk:Mending/archive1

Why is mending listed as +1...3 when it is "actually" +1...4? Why not simply list it as +1...4?


 * Mending is 1..3 on attribute levels from 0 to 12. That's our standard for listing skills in the game, the skill at 0 to the skill at 12. --Karlos 18:43, 25 Sep 2005 (EST)

Copied the table from Blood is Power and filled in the data that I had accordingly with my Monk character as reference. I don't have a Rune of Superior Healing Prayers, nor do I have the headgear that give me a bonus to healing, so my data is incomplete. Also note that the chart goes to 18, which I have no conceivable way of getting to that high in the game, but it was in the Blood is Power article, so perhaps the author continued the sequence or has some other sort of ability to alter stats.--FngKestrel 16:54, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Awaken the Blood gives +2 Blood Magic, so it's possible to get to 18 without hoping for both your 20% items to trigger at once.. However, be careful when copying numbers over; it might not be exactly the same past 12, since rounding often obscures any differences for low attribute totals.


 * I only copied the format of the table, being that I'm new to the vagaries of Wiki formatting. For the numbers, I fired up Guild Wars and altered my stats and observed the values given to me in the spell.  That's why there's questions marks at the higher levels.  I lacked that knowledge and couldn't extrapolate.--FngKestrel 17:34, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)

Err, one question about the chart, just to make sure I'm not missing something: is it really useful to talk about this figure? If I enter a PVP arena and cast Mending on one of my teammates as the first thing I do, I will be able to just stand there for 20 seconds and get all of my energy back before the fight begins. Similarly, pretty much all PVE players will cast their maintained enchantments, wait for energy to come back, and then go into battle. So the chart's certainly relevant if Mending gets removed, but I don't think it matters much otherwise. Or is there something important that I'm missing here? --130.58 22:54, 16 February 2006 (CST)

If you enter a PvP arena and cast Mending on one of your teammates as the first thing you do, you will (either one or all of them) This is based on observations in the arena as well as observation of the game mechanics. - Lavvaran 14:39, 31 October 2006 (CST)
 * Be called a noob.
 * Make that teammate or more of them disconnect.
 * Waste your time, usually teams with Mending get wiped.
 * Seriously need a rez. Soon.
 * Have a deer flashed at you.
 * This is a belated reply but, given that it took you 3/4 of a year to reply to me, I might as well... Well, yes, duh: Mending is 100% worthless in PvP and 99.9% worthless (worthless with maybe the exception of one weird aggro trick that I don't think anyone has fully mastered and that isn't very useful to begin with) in PvE. The post you replied to so long ago was about getting rid of the Ollj-cruft from the Mending article, as it was beyond useless (the graph showed you how energy-efficient Mending was depending upon how long ago you had cast it -- yeah, I know, wth?). Just want to make that clear since most current users reading through the first half of this discussion page probably don't even remember all the random graphs that once littered skill descriptions. But I do love your list. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 04:56, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Perhaps I should move the Template to the top of the Discussion page. Entropy 05:02, 3 January 2007 (CST)

That mending note
Personally I don't like it. It's nothing specific to mending. It's true for every maintained enchantment, and is essentially the entirity of Blessed Signet's function. Thus we would be essentially describing Blessed Signet on every single maintained enchantment article.

And that's like adding a note, for every Spell skill and every skill that interrupt spells, to warn that the spell might be interrupted by that skill. Bad idea. -PanSola 17:37, 14 February 2006 (CST)


 * I thought it was relevant to the subject of energy efficiency, but I couldn't think of a good way to shoehorn it into the section of healing to energy ratio. Most of the non-elite spells that cause exhaustion, including all the non-elite spells that cause exhaustion mention Glyph of Energy in the notes. I guess it would be better to merge it with the note about Mending being an enchantment. Although it might be a better mention Blessed Signet in the notes section of the maintained enchantment article, and then stick something like this ...
 * See general Maintained Enchantment notes.
 * ... at the top or bottom of the notes sections for various enchantment articles. -- Gordon Ecker 15:44, 16 February 2006 (CST)


 * Mending is such a criticised skill that discussion of efficiency is worthwhile. The healing efficiency is affected by the use of Blessed Signet and actually become very reasonable when supoorted in that way.  While 24 healing per energy is sub par for a monk, maintaining it with Blessed Signet you pay a mere 0.25 pips per enchantment, so you get an efficiency of 96 healing per energy - much higher than a skill like heal party, and you can extend it easily to everyone (I run a monk this way in PvE for fun, and it's actually the most efficient monk I've used to combat consistent party-wide damage).  Anyway, with the reputation Mending has as an inefficient heal I can see why a note to justify its use by a monk with blessed signet would be good. --Epinephrine 03:45, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * 24 healing per point of energy is definitely not subpar for a monk. That probably beats everything non-elite besides heal party.  --68.142.14.64 04:42, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Monk heals can be very efficient, especially if the monk is using efficiency skills. On the contrary, when you work divine favour bonuses into heals, or the use of efficiency skills monks routinely break 24 healing per energy. For example Reversal of Fortune with 12 protection and 15 divine favour (allowing 8 in another attribute line for energy management) can on its own prevent and heal 67 damage, for an effective 134 healing, and you get a divine favour bonus on that of 48 health, for as much as 182 for 5 energy, or 36.4 healing per energy.  A Healing Touch at 12 healing with 15 Divine Favour will grant 147 health, for 29.4 healing per energy.  Divine Boon heals at this type of efficiency rate too, when combined with weak heals like Orison of Healing - the boon bonus itself is as high as 35 or so healing per energy, so a typical Boon monk will generally be up around 30 healing per energy.  Divine Spirit and Blessed Aura are other efficiency tools, allowing a skill to be used very inexpensively, or for an enchantment to last a long time. Heal Party routinely hits as much as 40+ healing per energy.  The point though is that while the 18 healing per energy attained by a non-monk, or with 13 healing the 24 healing per energy attained by a monk is not *super*, using Blessed Signet to reach 96 healing per energy is amazing - and when playing my monk this way people usually start out by laughing, but later they're pretty impressed at how well it handles things - it's over twice as energy efficient at healing a group as Heal Party is.  --Epinephrine 05:21, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Time to axe the graph?
I see the graph as pretty darn pointless here, given that Mending is almost never cast in combat (unless you actually need something that will last for at least 30-40 seconds, even Healing Breeze will serve you better). I think it's fallacious to include it, given that you get the energy spent on Mending back by just standing around for a few seconds, meaning that there's really no difference in "efficiency" between a Mending you cast 15 seconds ago and one you cast 20 minutes ago. The graph just over-complicates a pretty simple case by assuming that you're going to be using this skill in a rather ineffective manner. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 00:40, 17 June 2006 (CDT) )
 * The graph is an ancient Ollj-ism and should go, but I don't think I'd mind seeing the whole notes section wiped. --68.142.13.99 01:13, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
 * do we know if regen is even a factor anymore? mobs seem to prioritise diffrently since the November AI update. i'd think the first and fourth bullet are all that's needed, wash the rest. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 01:31, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Heh. I think I did that just as you posted that. I think the point about Watchful Spirit is important, given how many people just don't notice it because they assume Divine Favor skills will suck on a monk secondary. I kept the AI note until someone can conclusively confirm or deny it. As I'm neither a W/Mo expert nor a big Mending fan myself, I think I'll step out and let someone else fix any remaining issues. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) ( 03:02, 17 June 2006 (CDT) )

Mending + Watchful Spirit build?
Would a Mending + Watchful Spirit build be effective? With 13 healing, Mending provides 4 regen and Watchful Spirit always provides 2 regen so that would be 6 regen total. These enchantments could be cast on every player in a 5-player party. Parties with 6 or more people could have Mending on everyone and Watchful Spirit on certain people.

can u tell me how u maintain 10 enchantments? that would be 2 energy lost per second, so...

A 55 monk sometimes uses Mending + Watchful Spirit. But it really axes their energy management.


 * Now that there's [Spirit Bond], a 55 can easily completely ignore the healing line and focus on Protection for healing, meaning that the +2 from watchful may be better than mending for some background healing. Silk Weaker 06:57, 6 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Mending+watchful is fun in RA, in the lava map. u use both of em on urself, and then go stand in the lava suffering only 1 health degen. 90% of the stupid wammos in RA will still attack you, because "Teh M0nk h34lz th3M" and the noobs will die because of the 7 degen, gg -Thomas 15:24, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

nerf mending
one of the funniest guild names I've ever seen: Mending is Overpowered [nerf]

[sarcasm]if you use this with peace and harmony, you can have a FREE constant 3 health regen!!!!111!!!!1!!!!11! shouldn't we add a note about that??????//????///???/??[/sarcasm] -Thomas 15:14, 31 August 2006 (CDT) it wouldnt really be free because u would have to give up 2 skill slots and 1 elite slot

Noobs?
I guess there is no need to call newbie who uses this skill. For PvE it can be useful, everyone choose his own build. -- Glenn 12:46, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * Anything works in pve thx &mdash; Skuld 12:47, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Inevitably...
Entropy 04:15, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hahaha the last reason is good. —Sora 04:37, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I've yet to see a Wammo try running that, though I suppose a Mo/W would have no problem. Just like the ones in Auron's Pro Builds page. :) It's the old concept that Two wrongs don't make a right. Two bad skills don't make a good combo. Entropy 04:42, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Almost not a funny thing. This is a BALANCED game so every one is free to use skills he likes. Glenn 12:03, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * ....I'm pretty sure that the inventor of this template doesn't mean to offend anyone though. More like....humor. I do agree with you Glenn, but I also have to admit that this skill is somehow inferior to the others. －Sora 12:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Energy Surge vs Spiritual Pain gogo. &mdash; Skuld 13:00, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's balanced like Magic. Meaning that certain skills are intentionally made inferior to others. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 16:33, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Mr Glenn, it's humor. I don't hate Mending any more than you do. :) But yeah, what Skuld said - as a maintained enchant, Mending is pretty inferior nowadays. It just pales in comparison to so many other things. Even Watchful Spirit is better imo. There's a place for it in the game, yes...and that alone shows you it is balanced. If it was truly lame no-one would use it at all, period. Like Keystone Signet. Only used by people who really like signet builds. I wanna put a tag on that one too, except that it has its (small) uses. Lastly, Mending is just generally, stereotypically hated, as we all know. This tag just serves to formalize it. I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention. :) Entropy 01:53, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm not offended, but from when i was taunted in HA because i was a W/Mo (and i'm still today a W/Mo), I want to defend Wammos and Mending. Even if I defeated the one that taunted me. :-P Glenn 15:08, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Vampiric Weapons
Mending is commonly use in PvE to counter the negative effects of vampiric weapons. Of course you could remove your vampiric weapon while not in battle, but that would require some work. Watchful Spirit would do an equally good or better job of this, unless you already have enough points in healing prayers. Also Watchful Spirit requires more energy to cast so if it is removed during battle it would be harder to recast than Mending. It is very useful on 55 Monks with 9 Healing Prayers (combined with Healing Breeze gives a perfect 10 regeneration, the maximum possible). For running it can add some healing so that you never have to stop to heal yourself, making the lower level runs quicker. VegaObscura 01:54, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Id rather have party members that use vamp weapons (read: W, R, P, D, A) targetted than casters, and hp regen makes monsters go to other enemies. So...still teh suk. -Ichigo724 13:21, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * Succor > Mending to counter degen of Vamp weapons. Gives an extra +1 pip of energy also. W, R, P don't cast spells; D does, but not constantly. A does also, but probably not enough to actually lose a significant amount of energy. Also Succor is unlinked, so a Prot monk can use it even. Tbh, Mending is the noob way to counter Vampiric degen. And anyways, what's so hard about swapping your weapon? All you have to do is hit F2 or such. Not too difficult. Entropy 22:02, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * >_> succor = target other ally. -Ichigo724 22:37, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * Succor would be better if you can get 2 people in your party to do it on eachother, thus getting +1 regen with no degen. But that is pretty uncommon.  And about health regen breaking aggro.... you're right that is bad.  I never said it is good, I said it is common.  VegaObscura 03:52, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Heroes. Succor > Mending. Entropy 03:38, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, I love heroes, especially the part where half the people stand around with a party of 4. It really improved the game that even more people are going hench/heroway. -Ichigo724 04:04, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * If there were less noobs in the game who ruin PUGs then I would feel the same way, even though I'm a hench/heroway person. As it is though?...you can't make something foolproof because they'll just invent a new kind of fool. So there's not much better you can do than stand around with your little virtual party of 4. >< Back on topic though, Watchful Spirit > Succor > Mending for keeping up a Vampiric on yourself. Since you can actually target your self, only get 1 less pip of regen, essentially unlinked as well...The only downside is that it costs +5 more energy to cast, though usually that don't matter since you'd cast it outside of battle anyways. Entropy 04:33, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * *pokes head in and reads the other comments* hmmm.. I like mending, but it does seem rather inferior in pretty much any build that I can think of. The concept of constant health regen is nice.. but it always seems that warriors like to cast it on themselves (then start ctrl-clicking their energy bar trying to get a battery), and monks have enough energy to recast/keep up spells like HB, Watchful Spirit, Succor, etc.. to not bother with mending, not to mention that using mending to counter vampiric weapons isn't too smart imo. I shudder to think of the poor wasted build slot >< (just click on another weapon set.. it's not that much work is it? XD) And a little thing for the first comment: usually if you're running in a low enough level area that there aren't casters with some kind of enchantment breaker, then you're not going to take too much damage anyway. --Cynn 00:49, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Entropy 21:46, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT 12 HEALING PRAYER WAMMOS (+5 regen) –Ichigo724 21:49, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * Eh...if a Wammo did that, they'd only have enough attribute points to use a Hammer, as there are no req4 max Shields. Would be a crappy Wammo too, without that shield you lose -16 armor, ruining the whole Wammo concept. Entropy 22:11, 29 January 2007 (CST)