User talk:Mendel/Democratic wikis – a primer

Ariyen's experience with GW2w
While I like that. I was one of the few against their new way. I knew it'd fail, I kind of pushed to get the policies back to going, which caused Pling to write his processes n proceedures of which people were like great! without a second thought. Looking at that page, I clearly do not see a "boundary". I see sysops abusing their powers, banning people based on a suggestion and not really looking at another's contributes. For me, I was banned on what mostly Erasculio said. Most that jumped for it - I consider trolls. some were against it. I helped with the edit page, the helper's page, a few more pages, and pushed to get some things that I felt were needed to be done. It was like I was hated for that. However, they didn't bother looking at someone who was changing the categories or moving images around without consensus. I started things, I was after consensus to work with others. I saw this same one start in on discussions or object and not really give a reason, upload photos without a source and fuss on others who do the same demanding sources. This one isn't being handled as I feel it should have been. No one is going to look at that unjust year long ban, started by this one who is clearly disrupting far more than I could have and this one demanded sysop tools to "finish" things... Yea, uh huh... Sysop banned for clearly reasons that were discussions, not what was assumed. I'm still angered by it and I have many iming me, msging me on irc, emailing me, etc. telling me they wished I was still there and this guy gone. Several wants the sysops changed and I don't blame them. However, you have the trolls whom are already there. You have those in power that aren't "supposedly" planning on playing the game and to me abuse their tools without actually doing what I feel a real sysop should. To me, for a ban to be placed on someone on themselves and not just each incident, the pros and cons should have been weighed and discussed, not just based on one's feelings, especially when they're biased and have a "personal" negative history with said person getting the "axe" and not just based on certain events on the person to be banned. For that wiki, I would have loved for those who are planning to buy the game, play, etc. to be the ones to choose their own sysops, etc. Not to be "godfathered" from another wiki. To me, that would work much better than the way that it's gone so far. The flip side to the boundary is some editors editing and doing what they want while others get flack, because of the lack of "guides, etc. that I would have loved to have seen there. Including a page on consensus and that if there's going to be a lot of editing - to discuss it first, show an example, etc. in sandbox. I've seen many do this, but I could name a few that don't and that have abused the wiki and still abuses the without punishment and without really considering others, but causing a lot of disruption, drama, and problems without really solving anything or working as a team. I think this would work, but it's not going to, because of the problems that I currently have mentioned. If those get fixed, then I'd see this working.

As of this moment, I see a lack of "control" with sysops and a lack of team work from some, etc. Lackness in making that wiki better, more friendly, and an ability to work together w/out competition. More so, I see some negativity from the original wiki leaked into this one... I still help some via other means with that wiki, even in advice, coding, etc. So, my ban isn't really a ban, when I still have others getting me involved. Kind of sad in a way, but helps me feel good. I actually try to be more friendly and help, less hostile than some think. Though, I do have a few "pet peeves", but with good intentions. Ariyen 05:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Im interested in your line, "I think this would work, but it's not going to, because of the problems that I currently have mentioned." Do you feel that this text doesn't address those problems? Or does it, but you fear it wouldn't work because it wouldn't be enforced? --◄mendel► 06:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't address enough of the problems there. Because like on gww, where they(sysops) blatantly voted on banning someone - didn't apparently learn from the beginning of why pages like arbcom, etc. was truly set up for and what it was meant for. However, they didn't even "vote" or have real consensus (aka pros and cons, etc.) to ban someone. they just do it out of their "personal" judgement, which shows me that one doesn't seem to know how a community works. I have been on countless sites, social, wiki, etc. and seen that the way those people do things are different compared to that wiki. I have noticed that with some bans, it has personal judgement in on it. Not professional. One should not use tools for personal gain or vendetta. I have had to use "power" on sites and on other programs to solve issues that were actually out of hand, truly disruptive, name calling, etc. basically what was clearly ugly and use judgement. I think with that, I have been trusted on some sites with the tools and I don't believe in abusing that. I just feel that sysops can and some do abuse it, but no one is going to do anything, because they like whom all is there, they like it the way it is now. that's why I say there's really more trolls there than people who are making that wiki worth while. Any proposes would not help at all. hell they were like we don't need no stinkin' policies and I feel with this, they'd treat that the same way. According to Pling via irc. He doesn't want anything else but that. You would have Erasculio going against you as well as a few more that are imo well... People who tend to only think of the wiki as their own personal wiki and do what suited them, not the wiki it's self. I see more of those type than I do of the other. Hence, I'd doubt you'd get much support there if you tried to post it there, unless you can get some of those people to voice on it here or give their opinion. If you can guarantee yourself more voices towards this, then I'd say that it might succeed and it might work. Just I'd hope that they'd enforce it or have the people get after the sysops to get them to enforce it. I'd like though to see something that's more "controlled" than what I see. I don't like the A sysop has final say deal and that if anyone has to object - I don't like the bullshit hard ass, think I'm better than you, know it all, type personality from someone who has tools. I feel that would be one of the MANY problems that would cause this to not work. More so, problems with those who would think a policy, or guideline, or any page would get in the way of how they do things or what they can do, want to do, etc. Ariyen 22:29, 8 April 2011 (UTC)