Talk:Game updates/20070119

Shattering assalut says "you deal 50 damage" rather than "you deal +50 damage", it seems to be doing the +50 though--Blade (talk|contribs) 17:51, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Yikes
I know some well meaning folks are going to insist on changing every single one of these "temporary change" skills ... forcing us to then revert every single one after the weekend is over ... sigh ... --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:07, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * That's why I put a small notice, that I HOPE people will notice. No sense changing that much only for 3 days :/. There's a talk about this in Talk:Game updates too. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:13, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Too late - people are already on skill update rampages. Best to start posting messages to those spotted doing it, then reverting. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:16, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, too late :( &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:20, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * How about putting a comment in one of the templates used for skill pages? Would be more noticable there --86.20.80.219 18:22, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Maybe... but that would be a bit annoying :/ Anyone want to make the comment on the page BIG and RED? Or place it on the Top? :P &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:47, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Lock the pages from editing? :/ -Ichigo724 19:05, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Just add a comment on Template:Skill box [[Image:Poke.gif]] Poke 19:08, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * If I remember correctly, because that template is in such high usage, changes to that box cause a significant adverse effect on site performance. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:20, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I think it's ok to remove any instances of the word "evade" and replace them with "block" if needed.--72.194.109.3 19:50, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Y'know, it might've actually been easier to let people apply the changes and then revert all the skill pages once after the event rather than constantly revert attempts to change stuff. I agree with keeping our solution for the sake of correctness, but it's really not easier. Just sayin'. ;) &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 06:51, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Tombs
Anyone else having issues in the Tombs, where there's an incorrect entry spawn at the start of the Hall of Heroes level? Basically the party spawns in the middle of a large mob rather than at the usual spot. --Kanga 19:18, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I had the same in the Tombs. You spawn in Hall of Heroes not on the normal spawn point, but in the same room just in front of the bridge in the middle of a mob. The bridge isn't there (will appear when all visible mobs are defeated), but there are stairs going up to the chaos wurms, which normally isn't there. --Geer 01:44, January 20 2007 (GMT)

Skills
yea nvm, my idea didnt work at all--Thelordofblah 20:27, 19 January 2007 (CST)

insane
I'll bet you we'll all lose it from all the reverting. -Ichigo724 20:19, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Update: AAAARRRFGGGJTRDFHCXGVKREFH/CDGOUVJ/F?"'(§è!ç -Ichigo724 22:18, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I can see it happening. Already had to fix a few. Anet wants us to go crazy it seems. x.X &mdash; [[Image:NessHrinIcon.png]]  Ness  22:20, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Chest
I'm not sure if it's because of these update but buried chest have restarted (you can reopen a chest already done on that perso)Deadjack 22:36, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, the Treasure Chest/Buried Treasure/Do Not Touch chests have reset. I just went on a treasure run after the update.  &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   22:02, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * Wonder if they meant to do that. Let's play safe and not tell them. xD &mdash; [[Image:NessHrinIcon.png]]  Ness  22:18, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * I went ahead and added it because 1) its already on guru, and 2) I thought wiki was about being a community and helping people, not personal greed. --Mwpeck 00:48, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * If that last part was meant towards me, I mean not tell Anet, they'd probably try to fix it. :P &mdash; [[Image:NessHrinIcon.png]]  Ness  02:16, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Confirmed that it works. Wicked. T.T.H. 07:30, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Mallyx Glitch
It appears this build fixed the Mallyx rebirth glitch. We had 4 people come thru the gate, and the cut scene never triggered...Tknorris 01:21, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Yes, appears to have been fixed. We brought the whole party to the other side. Mallyx had not even spawned. As such, it appears he will only spawn if you complete phase one of the mission. --Karlos 03:56, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Leader's Comfort
person posted, Talk:Leader's Comfort, i confirmed, if it was 3 seconds beforehand, it might have been an unknown error on the wiki's side. -- Xeon 06:20, 20 January 2007 (CST)

E-Bond...
Any clues on what's wrong with this skill? It has stopped sending energy to the caster in most scenarios. We hypothized that it's because the tank is taking zero damage at times, but Balth-Spirit still works that way. At times it seems to work in spurts. --Karlos 08:49, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Essence Bond only triggers on Physical or Elemental damage. Holy, Chaos, Shadow, Dark, and untyped damage won't give the energy. But if that's not the case anyways, I'm at a loss Ayumbhara 09:31, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Again, let me clarify that this was not the first time all of us used e-bond. In fact, I used Stone Striker (which converts all damage to ele damage) and it still did not trigger all the time for the monks. --Karlos 14:05, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Stone striker would never help. It only converts elemental and physical, which would trigger essence bond anyway.  --Fyren 14:18, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * E-bond wasn't just working for me in HA. Balth Spirit did. They were definitely taking ele/phys damage. Shandy.

jpgs
I'm disappointed in the change from .bmp to .jpg for the screenshots. What are the chances that we would be given a choice between the two in the options menu? - Lord Ehzed 09:57, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * See Command line. Use the -bmp command. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 10:00, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Command line see -BMP -- Xeon 10:00, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Omg that was like .5 seconds faster then me. -- Xeon 10:00, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * I love this wiki! Thanks Gem and Xeon! :) - Lord Ehzed 12:16, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * No prob. It's a pleasure to help. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:14, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Weekend skills
I think we should clarify this. Should we update the descriptions for the skills that will be altered during the weekend or not? It's not going to be a permanent change (for now) so we shouldn't have to bother, however reverting back will be easy. Any statements? &mdash; Poki#3, 21:23, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well if it's going to actualy change to them it would be easy to change them to new versions and then revert once event finsihed, and then if the changes are implemented revert them back to the version they were durring event.-- Sefre  [[image:Prepared_Shot.jpg|22px|]] 21:26, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Anet claims, that they will be watching matches and gathering feedback and change the skills according to that, so this balance isn't final... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 22:41, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hell, I say leave them alone on the Wiki since we basically are trying to represent what it is in-game permanently. Not worth doing for just a 3 day weekend since if they do change, they likely will be tweaked slightly anyway.  On another note, is anyone else bothered by the fact that it seems all of the skills are balanced just based on PvP and not on how PvE goes? That is why E class gets nerfed so much and is nearly worthless in PvE at times.--RabiesTurtle 23:19, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * I agree that it's not worth changing all the skill pages, then reverting everything once the weekend is over. Sounds completely pointless, to be honest. Those that will be curious as to how the skills have changed will undoubtly just read the notes for that update. --Dirigible 23:36, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * There are things that are good for PvE, but would never work in PvP and Vice Versa. Although I'm a PvE player, I do agree that skill balanceing should be based on PvP, where 2 thinking groups try to outwhit each other, and not PvE where a group of mindless monsters chargers at you from all directions and fires all the skills they can at random on you, hoping to catch you offguard or overwhelm you with there levels / HP / overpowerness / monster skills. Don't you agree? ^^; &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 23:42, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * PS: Someone, please Archive this page :o
 * The problem comes is that the AI is way different from human reactions. Sure, balance PvP, but it seems there should be a time to separate the way things work in PvP from how they work in PvE. They are meant to be different.  Trying to make them the same will basically just force players out of the game.  Look at Searing Flames for instance.  In PvP I have faced some "morons" who basically all bunched up and I owned them with the skill.  However, PvE they don't group nearly as tight in many instances (or at least there are enough of them where I don't wipe out a patrol in one swipe)..... but this skill will surely be nerfed because of the PvP aspect and possibly make it worthless.  PvE has a LOT more enemies and AI instead of human intelligence/mistakes... it should be different than the PvP interaction, and so should the skill usage. --RabiesTurtle 23:52, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * They are already doing that with making SF burning duration 1..5 and glowing gaze recharge 8 seconds. There's the start of the nerf. --Nightslayer 19:01, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * People are going to end up making the changes no matter what we decide. It's whether we do it ourselves and revert or end up continually watching and reverting as others do it.  --Fyren 00:06, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * In terms of us updating only the skills that change in the final skill-update, wouldn't it be easier to make sure all the current skill details remain the same since the update will contain a list of the skills which do change? Basically, wouldn't it be easier to watch this weekend and revert to current since they are temporary.  Would help to prevent changing one now which may not be changed in the end.  Whatever you guys decide though. --RabiesTurtle 01:26, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I just want to say I approve of 95% of what they've done. Mightywayne 18:11, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Elementalist Skills Seems to me that they tried to nerf SF from PvP. Anyone else? Also they made other skills a lot more compatible with Mist Form

Warrior Stances Got nerfed hard! I really hope they keep at least one defensive stance longer than 10 seconds or something. It's nice that they lowered the recharges, but some of those stances still cost 10 energy. Shield Stance - used to last ~18 seconds, now it's 8. I'm not happy about it. ><

I guess, though, overall the changes are balanced, since most of the offensive skills got a nice boost. Still it's sad that Tactics tanks are becoming less and less viable in PvE, which is the only place you'd likely find one anyways...sigh. 24.6.147.36 23:36, 19 January 2007 (CST)


 * I <3 the new soldier's defense (combined with WY, ofc). -Ichigo724 12:19, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Warrior stance coverage went up. While like 2-3s got shaved off each one's duration (like 20-25% I'd guess, without looking), the recharge times were all reduced by even more.  This does mean you'll spend more energy on them, too. --Fyren 14:16, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Dervish Skills Glad to see some forms just got more useful. Guess Avatar of Lyssa didn't need that extra 10 Energy that much, speaking from a strictly "regular" Dervish position. May be useful to use that form as a Mo/D or something someone will think about. And finally Avatar of Dwayna is actually useful! Only 5 energy with a boost on it's self healing capabilities. I like it! ;) KazDoran 08:29, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Umm... I've noticed that there were 3 main topics on the GW updates page. 1) Permanent Changes, 2) Changes for this Weekend's Testing Event, and 3) Skill Balance Changes. This leads me to believe that the skill balance changes may be permanent after all.  Anyone else see what I'm talking about?  Of course it's still possible that it's temporary but I haven't seen any changes back to the old skills yet.--  Vallen Frostweaver  08:21, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * From a strict reading I'd agree with you, there are definitely three sections so the skill balance changes may be permanent. Has there been any indication from ArenaNet whether the balance changes are forever or not? After all, they've munged their grammar before. --NieA7 08:26, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm skimming the forums now for any clue from Gaile or others. I'll post here again if I find anything.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  08:36, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * GuildWars.com news/20070116, first one -- Xeon 08:37, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Ya beat me to it. Found a good one from Gaile and here's the note she left explaining the skill balance is part of the weekend testing (for those that can't get to a link for any reason)  Vallen Frostweaver :

''Hi,

''Skill balances are global. What happens in GvG happens in Ascalon City, Heroes Ascent, Turai's Procession, Shing Jea Monastery, Random Arena, Domain of Anguish and everything in between. No split, no division, no "on one hand but on the other hand" sort of thing. A +1 to a skill will boost the skill anywhere, and a -5 seconds to a skill will likewise cross the gameworld globe.

''So the first part of testing is to try out the skill balances, and you can do that anywhere that you'd like to test them. Post your comments, quesions, and concerns anywhere that you'd like to post them. Not in a specific subforum or a certain thread, but wherever you'd like to share your input, PvE, PvP, or both!

''The second part of the Test Weekend is experimenting with a shakeup of the Heroes' Ascent area. There are a bunch of new gameplay mechanics the designers would like to try out to freshen the area and make it more fun and exciting. This is testing on the same weekend as skill balances, but they are not really connected in any way. They could have taken place on totally separate weekends.

''This means that you do not have to go to HA to test the skill balances, they are global. You do not have to go the Heroes' Ascent Forum to have your input read -- we'll be tracking comments on forums like this Community Discussion Forum and several others, as well. Your comments will not have greater validity if you are a PvP player, a PvE player, or someone whose sole goal in life is gaming to earn the highest Drunkard title.

''The changes will be for the weekend only. They will then be appraised and finalized in a few weeks. At that time, the changes that the designers choose to move forward with will be implemented into the game on a permanent basis.

''We look forward to you trying out the new skill balances, and we invite your feedback. In fact, we hope for a wide variety of feedback from all sorts of players, because it is our intention that the game be as fun and as well-balanced as it can be, from all players' perspectives.

''I hope that answers the questions and that we'll see you during the weekend.

''Gaile Gray

''Community Relations Manager

''ArenaNet

www.guildwars.com

Update locked me out of campaign!
Whoa this is looking serious. I've just now logged in for the first time after this weekend's update, AND MY FACTIONS CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN LOCKED as if I had never bought it. I have 3 Canthan characters, all of which I can't play because it gives me an Error 165, and on all other characters, my Factions skills have been locked as well, I can't travel to Cantha, etc. etc.. I could not test re-entering my Factions key because I have bought it via eBay (new & unused, from a reliable commercial trader), it was sent to my by eMail (cutting the price considerably), and unless NCSoft or ANet or whoever just re-activates Factions for me, I have to hope my seller still has the key from back then (which I somehow doubt). Damn. --RolandOfGilead 10:16, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * http://www.guildwars.com/support/ report it. -- Xeon 10:23, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * That's what I did first of course. I just hope they're not going bureaucratic on me. --RolandOfGilead 10:27, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I believe they won't. I've had 2 tickets open with them and they were very nice and helpful about it.--  n 00kie  (Ping) 18:48, 19 January 2007 (CST)

glitch
After the update, has anyone noticed random "Block"s when the target has nothing that lets them block, or how it seems all "Evade"s have been turned into "Block"s? In aspenwood, I noticed several random blocks against my attacks when they had nothing on them that COULD block, and ward against melee turned up blocks and so did displacement --Gimmethegepgun 18:47, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Permanent change: The “evade” mechanic has been removed from the game. All skills that used this mechanic have been changed to use “block” instead. --  n 00kie  (Ping) 18:49, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Inaccurate info
The update claims to have changed Discord to 30...110 dmg, but the actually the skill now does 94 damage at 12 death magic (115 damage at 16) --Jogden 19:36, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Anet does x...x from 1...15. &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 19:38, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * that's odd... --Jogden 20:22, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yea, I just figure that out too. That's pretty lame. Giangn626 20:38, 19 January 2007 (CST)

On a related note, Resilient Weapon's cost is still 10, not decreased to 5 like the temporary change stated. &mdash;  02:55, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Tombs Glitch
The new update has caused a glitch in the Ruins of the Tombs of the Primevil Kings. Sometimes (possible always) when entering the fourth (last) level you spawn in the wrong place, which is occupied by enemies. It is close the the original spawn location, except surrounded by enemies. Hopefully this is very temporary.

Game Balances
Is it just me or do they want to make the paragon more useless?Sacraficia 18:32, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Paragon took quite a hit, but builds like zergway are still effective. Played with it in HA after the update, and still won several flawless matches. Generally I guess this was a pretty good rebalance but only time will tell. Glad to see a lot of Rt boosts anyway, they were kind of lacking lately. KazDoran 19:02, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * SoA nerf isn't fatal but unnecessary. Assassin boost mostly uncalled for. Beguiling Haze is hot now. Paragons overly nerfed- could have done with more substantial boosts to its non-healing roles. Searing Flames nerf fairly modest, but twinned with the Glowing Gaze nerf it looks like they were targeting some specific build ;). Really appreciated the Ele boosts for the lesser used skills.
 * Agreed on the Ele boosts and the SF/GG build nerf (still works, not as easy to use, that's fair). I don't get Lightning Hammer's change, though - 2 sec recharge on a 25e skill? It wasn't worth the energy before, casting it more often doesn't help that. — HarshLanguage [[Image:qswearing_small.png|HarshLanguage]] 22:19, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Paragons weren't nerfed. They're simply being shifted in focus from a defensive role to a more aggressive one instead. And you won't hear me complaining about that, that's for sure. --Dirigible 19:17, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm upset about some of the Paragon skills being hit a bit unfairly. However, with the shortening durations of many of these skills, especially rezzes and such, I'd expect combat would be more intense and more chances for interruption. However... Warriors have trouble with their energy supply as it is... With all the shortened stance durations, tanking is just that much harder. 132.203.83.38 19:34, 19 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thing is, up until now, Paragons as a primary profession in PvP were mostly used for their cheap and effective party healing. You don't really see many Ps in PvP using Spear skills. I guess Anet was just trying to change that a bit. Like I said before, the nerf still didn't make too much damage to prevent builds like Zergway from working. It's just a bit harder now, and experienced teams will have no problem with that anyway. KazDoran 08:29, 20 January 2007 (CST)

POWER LEAK <3 --Silk Weaker 22:11, 19 January 2007 (CST)

I'm liking the changes, especially because I'm a Sin. They made useless things useful, Overused less useful (feigned neutrality, still good but it was a little, how to say, a tool of the masses), and made all sorts of good balances for all classes (except nightfall ones, sorry Dervs and Paragons!). I'm hoping they won't leave out too many changes. Impale was great and now it's UB3R! -Isidore Robespierre

Ok some of the skills are much better, I gotta gripe about Sharpen daggers though, as it has become virtually useless. It was a great pressure skill to lay down on monks. hard to heal all those bleeding foes if you use crit barrage, or epidemic. Other then that I am fairly happy with the changes. ~the Rat~

The Ritualist got some love. I'm going back to my ritualist again. Giangn626 01:08, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I really like the earth and water elementalist buffs, most ritualist changes are cool too. I'm really ticked off about Disciplined Stance though. I thought when they lowered the energy they were trying to make it more useful, now they have made it unusable. Its not like its being abused, why shorten the duration on it? I don't care about the recharge, thats what renewing smash is for. Renewing Smash is going to be pretty useless with all the warrior stances having short recharges. I hope they change their mind on that one as it totally ruins a build idea I've been working on for awhile. -- BrianG 12:54, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * I'm very upset that Stone Daggers will (possibly) have a recharge time of 2 seconds. Goodbye Stone Daggers + Kinetic Armor spammers X( Entropy 16:06, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Stone daggers new recharge= 2s. Kinetic armor lasts 8s, and 9 with an enchanting mod. You can get 3 Daggers off in that time, so it's not going to run out.144.32.128.113 06:02, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Good point, what's the F-ing point of Renewing Smash now? 132.203.83.38 18:05, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I like the changes done to critical strike and critical defenses, it doesn't make Critical Mastery build much more powerful but makes it much easier to manage. Martian Kyo 05:13, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Minimap
Does anyone else have their minimap is zoomed in? This a bug in the update? Zaboomafoo 01:30, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * press ctrl and then scroll your mouse wheel. -- Xeon 01:38, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * That happened to me before, so it wasn't introduced in the update. --RolandOfGilead 06:47, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * A long long time ago, been using it for quite some time. -- Xeon 06:57, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Locust's Fury
Locust's Fury doesnt scale, it is a set number 50% more often,which is an increase since it used to be 33% but it doesnt scale like the updates say BMW 18:25, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * at least its better than 33 =P will have to test but hopefully the skill isnt compleely useless anymore...=P--Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 18:44, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Yes, this made my build (Build:A/W_Flurry_of_Fury) about hmm... 50%-33%=17% better :P BMW 18:51, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Lightbringer Heroes...
''If a player has the Lightbringer title track selected, that player's Heroes now gain the benefits provided by this title. ''

...still can't use Lightbringer skills (gaze / signet) --Tometheus 12:57, 20 January 2007 (CST)

...Which is lame but at least they dont get wtfpwned in Realm of torment anymore :)--Blade (talk|contribs) 13:12, 20 January 2007 (CST)

New weapon(s)? ha chest changes
There's at least a new weapon that drops off ha reward chest. see talk:Runic Blade worth being mentioned? no idea if this is permanent or not.

Rumors of a Mallyx's-axe-skinned- axe, but we havent been able to verify it ingame -- Menzies 10:28, 21 January 2007 (CST)


 * verified another new ha drop. Legendary Sword basicly a renamed gothic sword with inscription slot-- Menzies 13:01, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * edited guildwiki notes for this update adding the new weapons -- Menzies 14:01, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Frozen Burst and Water Trident buffs
With the buffs to the Frozen Burst and Water Trident, the Shiverpeaks just got a lot harder. While a trip around Grenth's Footprint might rarely have a death in the party, today my party lost 3 members 2 times each while fighting a mob with 3 ice golems in it. Also be prepared to move slow at least 50% of the time due to Frozen Burst now having a 5 sec recharge (or have everyone carry a hex remover). This will make avioding Ice Golems on any Shiverpeak run even more important than before. Queen Schmuck 14:35, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * Wow, just looked at the new stats for this skill. That seems WAY too powerful for slowing people, even with having to get right up on them.  I am hoping this is one skill that does not stay as it is explained. --RabiesTurtle 21:53, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Spiritual Pain
--84.159.180.38 15:36, 21 January 2007 (CST)Anyone else noticed that Spiritual Pain no longer instantly recharges when a Spirit is hit but not targeted?

BMP format
Still saved as BMP by default? That's strange... I've been doing screenshots all weekend and all I've been getting are JPGs. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 22:19, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * Me too, only person who I've heard say this is Gordon Ecker, I haven't seen anything posted on boards about it either. --Rainith 22:24, 21 January 2007 (CST)


 * My screen shots became .JPGS after the update. I used CLI to change back to .BMP for mapping purposes.  Queen Schmuck 00:11, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * If you get .jpg and want .bmp, use the command line -bmp function, as mentioned above. -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 01:15, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Destructive was Glaive
As of Mon, Jan 7th 10:30 (GMT+1), despite the listing on the official page (25%) this skill has just 5% armor penetration, as stated in the skill description in game. -- Sai Qui 04:25, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * yes its documented at Game updates/20070120 -- Xeon 04:53, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Skill changes temporary?
Are the skill changes temporary or will they stay and be tweaked in following updates? So far Teinai's heat isn't reverted, so I guess no skills are. So far I've read it like they would be reverted, but why hasn't it happened yet, in that case? &mdash; Stylva  (talk)(contribs) 18:47, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * My guess is that they taking a bit to look at the feedback from this weekend to modify the changes some, and then put them into effect fully in an update that is surely coming soon. I am wondering when exactly that will happen though.  Still have my fingers crossed that they will realize that the SoA nerf is making yet another monk skill completely worthless for regular play, and that losing skills to them trying to nerf farming is starting to get out of hand. --RabiesTurtle 21:56, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Completely worthless? It gives you basic invincibility for a few seconds every 10, healing for way more than orison (usually) at the same cost and cast time (post-nerf).
 * The damage reduction is conditional on getting a lot of hits in the short period of time. Sure it can prevent a ton of damage in a tank situation, but it can also prevent very little damage. It WAS a good skill to consider since it was both low cost and a quick cast, so it was worth it if only for the divine favor bonus.  Now though, the longer cast time makes it less beneficial since you could be using other spells which help more for the same cast period. And if you want to look at wasted skills, look at Spirit Bond which was nerfed to stop the 600HP builds.  Now the skills has a short life AND only works for a limited number of hits.  Basically worthless for normal play IMO. The problem I have with some balances though, is that some skills aren't being modified to balance play in PvP or even because they are overwhelmingly powerful in PvE... it is purely to discourage farming.  Not worth damaging skills just to stop a couple farming options. --RabiesTurtle 23:16, 22 January 2007 (CST)

see Talk:Game updates/20070119, vallen posts an interesting extract from a message by gaile, she mentions it will be applied back into the game after a few weeks (3 more more weeks), apart from that, i have not seen any other reference to when the skills will be changed live. -- Xeon 02:55, 23 January 2007 (CST)