User talk:PanSola

Archives

 * Past mistakes are moved into the /MistakeArchive
 * Other closed issues are moved to /Archive, /Archive2, /Archive3, /Archive4

Archiving Stabber's talk page..
Why? --Karlos 01:32, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * It is my hope, that by archiving the conversations which are essentially dead (though matters not concluded), that it will decrease the likelihood of people perform thread-necromancy or even drama-necromancy. The original drama was already blown up way out of proportions to a sickening magnitude, I do not wish to furthur encourage anyone keeping the fires burning.  By all means it's fine to continue to figure out what our policy on Sockpuppetry should be, and once that's figured out depending on the policy we may wish to rigorously look into whether Stabber should be found guilty of any accusions against him/her; but Stabber's talk page should not degenerate into free-for-all commentary on online stalking, sockpuppetry, and other dramas on the internet.  - 05:33, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The talk page however contained evidence very pertinent to the discussion. In addition, the added links were not vandalism, so you're editing other user talk pages against the policy you yourself were advocating. Preventing thread-necromancy (in and of itself) is not exactly an acceptable reason (so what if the thread is resurrected?) but even if that is the case, the necromancer can just go edit the talk on Community Portal and/or the Sock puppetry page.
 * I am more interested in precedent and policy. You were the one who was telling me I have no business trying to force a talk page on Deldda, now you're editing Stabber's talk page. What gives? --Karlos 08:27, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I think archiving it was a good idea, but to prevent this talk Pan should probably have told Karlos beforehand. I was so sure Karlos will comment when I saw the archiving and the update notes. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 08:50, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Perhaps it conflicts/contradicts/differs with the exact wording I have conveyed before, but I still believe I have no right to force an edit on Stabber's user talk page against her/his wishes. My edit summary explicitly allowed Stabber to revert the changes I made, thus fully respecting Stabber's soverignty over Stabber's user talk page.  If Stabber ever logs in and reverts it, that's fine by me and I fully respect that, I won't be offended or decide to ban Stabber.  There is sufficient reason to consider Stabber's departure this time to be different from the previous times, and that even if the user still uses/contributes to GuildWiki the chances that the user will ever log in as Stabber again is slim.  My archiving of the talk page was intended to manage the page in the User's absence (as in not logging in), and again the user may revert it as s/he sees fit.
 * If the added links were vandalism, I would've simply reverted them without archiving them.
 * I'm not trying to prevent necromancy, but trying to discourage unnecessary ones. If the issues are important enough, the archiving would not have prevented the issues from being resurrected.  However, keeping certain things on the main talk page will simply encourage people to drag on a drama that has been a dead horse for quite a while.  I wouldn't actually mind those links posted on the Sockpuppet talk page at all.  In fact, part of what annoyed me was that I think it really belonged TO the sockpuppetry talk page or community portal page (assuming it would be neutral commentary on Online Stalking, Sockpuppetry, or Online Drama in general; instead of directed at the incident with Stabber) as opposed to belonging  to Stabber's talk page.  Thus if the archiving of the Stabber's talk page encourage future stuff like the posting of those links to go to Sockpuppetry's talk page, then that is an extremely satisfactory result to me.
 * I did not delete the talk page, I did not simply blank it. I archived it.  If we ever need to examine the previously posted evidences again, it's not much of an issue to locate them.  They are in the talk page's history AND in the archive. - 21:10, 1 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, so you are basically contradicting yourself. You're saying: "I am doing this change, but I am absolutely NOT forcing it on Stabber's talk page, she can revert it if she likes, she is absolutely free. Although I am fairly certain she is reading this and cannot possibly login with her Stabber username to agree/disagree with it."
 * That's a pretty convoluted logic. I'd think if a user left (and left his user page and talk page in a certain state), you cannot honestly say "I am doing an edit that they are free to remove." Stabber chose to leave her user page (and talk page) in a certain state. I don't understand how you can do this and justify your earlier policy. This still seems like an obvious inconsistency to me. Are we allowing a "greater good" clause in that "admins shall not edit user pages" law you proposed or what? You know Stabber is not gonna login as Stabber just to correct you on that edit if she didn't like it. --Karlos 23:58, 2 July 2006 (CDT)


 * 1. I did not propose a law. The statements I made (and I believe it was not verbatim "admins shall not edit user pages") were textual reflections of a certain principle I believe in, and depending which statement you decide to quote (though you never made any direct quotes), it may unfortunately contain semantic conflicts with my actions on Stabber's talk page.  Rereading everything I can find on the previous subject, the only direct thing I found (and I could've missed some/many, so please do point them out) where I acted against what I wrote previously is the quote that "I don't think [name] has a right to create articles under another user's namespace", which conflicted with my creation of archive 3.  This discrepency could have been prevented (and can still be resolved) by putting the archived discussions into archive 2 instead of having them in archive 3.  However it is my belief from what you have written above that whether things went into an existing archive or in a new archive I created is nowhere near the center of your issue (if you even care at all).


 * 2. Again, I believe I never proposed a "admins shall not edit user pages" law. The specific action I was against was about users getting banned if they revert an admin's edit on their own user page.  I tried deriving a general pricinple and put it in words and have obviously failed to keep the semantics and the spirit of the principle in sync.  It would be helpful to the discussion to directly quote my words when pointing out any contradictions with my actions.


 * 3. The fairly certain is not about Stabber still reading it, but about her not going to edit it if she is still reading it (of which I am not certain one way or the other). And the part about she "cannot possibly log in with her Stabber username" is your assumption of what I meant, possibly derived from the anon claim that she no longer has the password, whereas I arrived at the concusion of "slim chance of logging in as Stabber" from the circumstances of the persona's departure, which did not depend on her losing the password.  At least I find there to be a difference between "cannot possibly" (probablity = 0) vs "slim chance" (low but non-zero probablity).  If the two mean the same thing to you (which I don't know one way or the other), well, here's the clarification.


 * I am saying, that I believe there is a low probablity that the Stabber persona will ever return to guildwiki. I am making one edit for management purposes.  And in the (what I judge to be unlikely) case of the Stabber persona ever returning and disagrees with the edit, the Stabber persona may revert it. I can agree that Stabber chose to leave her user page in a certian state (and I didn't touch her user page), but I disagree that Stabber chose to leave her user talk page in a certain state that is meant to never get archived even if it keeps growing and growing.  I'm not making the edit because I think Stabber won't come in to challenge me.  I'm making the edit because I want to discourage certain unnecessary stuff that don't belong there from going there, possibly taking advantage of Stabber's absense, before things get out of hand. - 00:10, 5 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I find your analysis of your actions vs your words bordering on mockery of my request. I also find your archiving of Stabber's page "before things get out of hand" unnecessary (how were they getting out of hand) and (quite frankly) clearly biased. However, I have no desire to quarrel over this. I would have hoped for more honest examination of policies and actions rather than playing with semantics and words. --Karlos 06:21, 6 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The conscious intention was not to mock, to quarrel, or to deceive, though being the involved party it is hard to rule out the existence of undetected subconscious bias and subjectivity. It is also unfortunate that you decided to judge me by what you thought I said, instead of quoting (or re-examining) what I actually wrote.  We have had similar discourse before, on less important issues (non-policy related) with our roles reversed, and you had solemnly objected to me putting words into your mouth (due to my unintentional misinterpretation of your words), and I have to go back to re-examining your prior exact quotes to puzzle out what exactly you have meant (because despite my best efforts I could not obtain furthur explaination/elaboration) in order to continue any meaningful discussion.  Thus I find your (what I preceived to be) distaste for semantics and words rather ironic (and to a degree, frustrating), when those things are the very roots that lead to misunderstanding and misinterpretations.
 * I'm fine with anyone disagreeing and/or discussing the necessity (or lack of) of my recent actions. However, for any accusations of inconsistency, self-contradiction, or (to put it more severely) hyprocricy, I kindly request direct quotes of things I actually wrote, as opposed to an interpretation of what you think I was trying to say.  If you don't want my current view on what I did previously, quote what what I originally said exactly instead of giving me your current view of what I did previously. - 07:37, 6 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ok, let's start with this: Explain how creating a sub-folder in Stabber's user space, without her permission (and knowing that she most likely will not be able to give or deny you permission, explain how that is different from me creating a subsection in Deldda's talk page which you complained to:
 * At one point I deleted User:Deldda Kcarc/Track record, partly to stop a revert war that I find ridiculous, and partly because I don't think Karlos has a right to create articles under another user's namespace.
 * If you respond that "Well, I could have moved them to Archive 2 instead of 3" then you are telling me that the above objection was a joke. That you would not have minded me editing Deldda's own user page and putting the talk there, it was just creating a new page that bothered you. Was I wrong to understand that you opposed outside editing of a user page, especially unapproved edits? --Karlos 21:36, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Sig-Trick
nicely done with your sig-trick, you've inspired me! Alexanderpas Talk 13:56, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Bye
Thanks, now that there are all these ruls I'm not using my account anymore, this is the last time you will ever hear from me
 * Huh, for someone who's not using an account anymore, you sure are making a hell lot of edits on your own user page. - 00:59, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Warlord article
I had marked the article Warlord for deletion, as it's not relevant in-game. The tag was removed by User:Skinny Boy with no explaination given. Rather than re-revert, I added my comments to the articles talk page, and commented on Skinny Boy's talk page that my opinion was that such an article belonged in his user space, but he just deleted my commented from his talk page as well. I really can't do more without getting into an edit-war, so I decided to hand it off to you for further review. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:50, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I deleted it before you posted this d-: - 00:51, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
 * At first I thought I was getting hexed by slow typing frequently; now I think it's an environmental effect and I just can't remove the effect :-) --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:53, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Mesmer Skill List
I believe that when the Mesmer Skill list was converted to use includes, someone had mentioned monitoring server load changes from it. Was that you? I couldn't recall. I've tried periodically over the last two weeks, and have found that the load times of the article have grown un-usably long for me. I can still open the other skill listing pages; but the Mesmer one takes so long to open, that it's effectively unusable for me (we're talking 5+minutes).

Can the list be converted back to a table? My belief is that would resolve the load times; but as I cannot access the page, I can't even make the change myself. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:53, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Actually; after thinking about it, never mind for now. I'll try the listings for each profession, time them, and post it as a bug.  I had been assuming it was related to the use of inclusions, but I have no confirmation of that being the cause.  Perhaps if Gravewit takes a look, he may spot some secondary cause. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:29, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

Random Arenas and Team Arenas
I was doing the Location boxes for those areas, and I'm not sure what kind of area they should be categorized under, since they can't be really considered "Arenas", since the article for "Arenas" talks of the different areas in which you'll be sent to via those locations. --Rapta 18:37, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I think I would call them Arenas regardless, for now at least. - 18:47, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Gotcha. --Rapta 18:49, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

Mischevious redirects
Special:BrokenRedirects I can't make these go away, says you've already deleted them :/ Don't know if its a caching problem or because I don't have the fonts, see if you can do anything &mdash; Skuld  02:25, 6 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It's an issue with auto-capitalization. Because the unicode characters got all messed up and broken up inside the database (this happened at the beginning of the year or something), inside the database the article is essentially soemthing like "GuildWiki:asdf", and any attempt to do anything to it from the MediaWiki interface leads to the manipulation of "GuildWIki:Asdf", which doesn't actually exist.  We'll need to either make MediaWiki fully case-sensative so that GuildWiki:Asdf and GuildWiki:asdf are treated as diff articles, or go into the database directly and remove database entries. - 05:05, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

Dropped the ball there..
pfff... change it to PanFiction!! not FanFaction!! --Jamie  08:13, 6 July 2006 (CDT)