Talk:Orr

One thing that keeps bugging me
I think the ppl who wrote the story of "the Charr marched through Ascalon and got to Orr" and the ppl who designed the world map were never in communication. Even though we only have a Post-Searing / Post-Cataclysm world map, still Orr and Ascalon look nothing like neighbors. And don't give me that catacomb-tunnel theory. If the Charr could send an invading army through tunnels from Ascalon to Orr, they wouldn't have needed to create the Searing to bring down Ascalon. No, tunnels are fine for spies and secrete agents, not an entire invading army. - 04:09, 14 June 2006 (CDT)


 * This has bugged me for a long time, looking at the map it's pretty obvious that there is no way that the Charr could have made it to Orr directly through Ascalon without annihilating Ascalon in the process. This obviously hasn't happened, so they must have gone around the wall somehow.  Looking at the world map there are a few paths that present themselves, some more likely than others.  The least likely possibility is that the Charr Army marched south on the eastern side of the unnamed mountain range that forms Ascalon's eastern border.  They would have been able to skirt Ascalon and pass north of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings and proceed directly westward into Orr.  Considering how pathetic the Charr are I thnk it unlikely that they could have managed to march an entire army intact through the extent of the desert, though they may have found the temperature to their liking.


 * Another possibility is that the Charr never crossed the wall and instead managed to pass through the northern shiverpeaks, either through the pass by Yak's Bend or a more northern route, or possibly went north of the shiverpeaks altogether, as we don't know how far north they extend. After this they would have to either proceed south through Kryta and build a fleet of ships to transport their armies to Orr, or hug the western fringes of the shiverpeaks down the coastline to a point where the peninsula attached to the desert mainland.  Considering the Charr's well known affinity to heat, I would think it difficult for them to manage a crossing of the shiverpeaks.  Let alone managing to move an entire army undetected by the Deldrimor and Stone Summit, both of whom would have happily wiped them out.


 * The last possibility I can think of comes from the history of the Krytan war against the Charr during the guild wars. It's known that when Saul D'Alessio came back he empowered the Krytans to push the Charr out of their homeland across the mountains, well before the searing.  It's possible thougt that not all charr forces were pushed out, and instead some managed to swing south and  go to ground in the southeastern part of the orrian peninsula bordering the crystal desert, where they survived until recieving news of the searing (perhaps through their gods, or their shamans sensing the power needed to cause it).  Given the nature of the charr it's more likely that they would have been able to survive the harsh conditions than the human kingdoms that tried the same.  Especially since they were in hiding and not actively trying to ascend and thus not at odds with the forsaken. When they realised that Ascalon must be in ruins they marched on the Kingdom of Orr, well supplied and ready to fight.  This would explain why the Orrian forces were overwhelmed, since they were fighting a fresh, desert hardened force rather than one weakened by long years of war.  I think that this last is the most likely possibility given the information we have, who knows maybe they'll retcon something later, but for now, I'm going with this. Zephyr 13:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)


 * 1. I don't believe anything suggesting the Charr got defeated by the White Mantle before the Searing, much less "well before the Searing". I believe it is the same major offensive, and either one could've happened slightly before the other.  I'm personally inclined to assume the Krytan invasion happened slightly later, on a random assumption that the Charr homeland is farther away from Kryta than it is from Ascalon.
 * 2. Lore explicitly stated that the Charr marched right through the devastated Ascalon to get to Orr. So in a sence, the Ascalon army did get wiped out.  After the Searing and after the Charr marched through to get to Orr, the survivors of Ascalon regrouped and turned into what we know as the in-game Post-Searing Ascalon.  To me, having the Charr march through Ascalon, passing by the Crystal Desert, and hitting Orr is far more believable than your story of a band suriving the white mantle, went all the way to the Crystal Desert to hide, and got resupplied by the forces that defeated Ascalon.
 * But to me, having the Charr march through the Desert to hit Orr is also as ridiculous as having them marching through the Maguuma Jungle and swam to Orr. It's like hypethetically, if you launch from Western Europe, it makes a lot more sense to hit Australia by taking down Asia as opposed to North+South America.  And if your forces invading Asia is having diffculties, it makes more sense to pull back your successful American invasion force and have them help out with Asia first, rather than sending your American force across the Pacific Ocean to invade Australia.  In my analogy, Western Europe = Charr homeland, Asia = Kryta, America (continents) = Ascalon, Orr = Australia.  It's simply much easier to reach Orr via Kryta, and without securing Kryta, trying to take and hold Orr is way way way overextending forces even if you have Ascalon. - 15:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * - 15:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Isn't there some info that says that the ring of fire use to be in Orr?&mdash; ├ A ratak  ┤  22:39, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I do not believe so. - 15:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * allow me to remind everyone that the proper headgear for this discussion is on sale in the lobby ;) --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:10, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And let me remind everyone it makes much more sense to go through the courtyard to reach the lobby as opposed to passing through the corridors! - 15:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)