User talk:A F K When Needed/Archive 1

First! -->A F K When Needed 23:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Second! Oh, and welcome to GuildWiki.  Quizzical 23:33, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx -->A F K When Needed 12:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Signature
Testing... A F K When Needed 13:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, seing as your previous account had pestilence as a sig picture, I'm betting this is one too. Lemme go and check out the monk skills... BTW, new record for SoO run without perma: 1h 12 minutes, yay!--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 13:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * GL with that
 * and gz -->A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 15:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, I'm getting the feeling that it isn't a monk skill...--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I doubt it's a skill at all. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Viper cracked it tbh A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 15:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just noticed... I love how we were all talking about the pic and nobody said they like it =/ A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 23:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's purdy. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 00:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * :O A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 10:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Everlasting Tonic.
Right, one Everlasting Tonic... which? Everlasting Phantasmal Tonic Everlasting Unseen Tonic


 * Ooze tbh. --Macros 18:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's always the ooze with you... while you're here I'd be grateful if you compromise and go with one of the options A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * ^ + LOLOL Phantasmal. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:47, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh... nobody here knows how a Poll works... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We know how polls work, however, polls don't work in Monobook with the MW upgrade. You up to date? :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  18:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So I heard Phantasmal won A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * They didn't actually. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * GRRR... Nazgir... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Phantasmal from those two (yes my polls are broken), but I probably want the trapdoor, personally. Cerebral with the Asura mini looked like the most disturbingly adorable thing I've ever seen, though. And welcome back. :) My hunch on the GWW was correct, but I didn't have a clue until you said something. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:04, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ty, Rose
 * 2-1, Nazgir, your evil plan has been revealed and crushed A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:09, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay... I'll admit I'm surprised... 21:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)failA_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "GRRR... Nazgir..." That was undesurved, I only just voted! (for the cool tonic I just bought ofcourse :P )--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 17:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It was not, the Phantasmal Tonic is loosing, and it's because of your nefarious schemes. :P
 * And, notice the ":P" A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

''Moved from: User_talk:A_F_K_When_Needed/Weapon_Skins
Hmmm, the blue links are rather hard to read. And if you've clicked them recently, then they're practically unreadable: I didn't even see them at first (I visited them all exept wands through RC first). Perhaps darkening the background colour a bit might be better.--El_Nazgir 18:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why Nazgir? Why can't you be happy whit what people give WHY! No don't say anything Nazgir. The Look on your face sayes more than 1000 words. I l♥ve you too. -- [[Image:F4Sig.jpg|19px]]  † F1 ©  Talk  18:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You're hilarious F1!--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 08:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the poll...
...failed and I'm saving for my Phantasmal anyway. :P Thanx for taking part, though. A F K When Needed 19:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

EPIC FAIL
...I make a site here @ Wikia...on my very first day I edit my User Page...I break the site...it has a database error...judging by the amount of time since I let them know, Wikia do not seem to be able to fix it... A F K When Needed 20:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, answers has social tools installed, and userpages should do something different than they do on normal wikis. On unanswers, it looks as if the setup had been copied incompletely, so you get neither the social profile nor the userpage - this is broken for all users! Since it is weekend, wikia staff have not been working; they ought to get around to it tomorrow or Tuesday. -- ◄mendel► 21:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, funny thing is, that wasn't me, then. It was either Angela or some Default person. Oh well, I claim credit for it, 'cause breaking my own user page on the very first day is simply hilarious. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Come and be unhelpful!
Hi all, well, turns out Wikia made a mistake not me... I take credit for it as my version of events is just much more amusing. Anyways, I'd like to invite you all over to UnAnswers @ Wikia. The Main Page explains what it's about fairly well, but you should be able to get the idea from the name. Some notable  Users have already been spotted. Come join us, and help by being unhelpful! A F K When Needed 08:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I joined. Hope you like some of my awnsers and/or my question.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 16:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx, I'm sure I will =) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

MM minipet - opinions appreciated
What is the most... um... Necroish... mini pet? Abomination Bone Dragon Lich Lord Necrid Horseman
 * Oh, no, in case you're wondering, he won't just be a MM. But I still think that they work the best with a Necro, as it's MMing that best suits the... I dunno, theme... of Necros. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, the Lich? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * /Agree with Rose.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 10:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I added it... but... I know who he is, but it's really the whole evil, undead kinda thing I'm going for, not a moron who was outsmarted by some agent or other of Abaddon. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(RI) My apologies to those who voted, adding the Lich restarted the Poll. You of course are enabled to vote again, be it for the same option or a different one. A F K When Needed 12:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the Lich is like the most evil, undead thing I can think of, I mean he friggin summons Wraiths and wants to take over the world with a Titan army after singlehandedly destroying an entire kingdom! The whole Abaddon crap was added later, I doubt they had it in mind when they made Prophecies.  Anyway, Bone Dragon is one of my favorites, too.  Necrid is kind of cool, but too common. :P A Banished Dreamrider or whatever they are, the ghostly version in the UW, would be way cooler, even though they're Mesmers.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * tbh...WTB MINI RIFT WARDEN A-GO-GO!
 * I dunno how to describe it, apparently I'm doing a bad job
 * I want something visibly undead, maybe that's a better way of putting it. The Lich isn't a skeleton or whatever, he's just a mutant. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 09:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The lich is undead. His flesh simply didn't decompose :P --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 15:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ...visibly undead...
 * It's a minipet, all I care about is how it looks as I've tried to point out a few times already A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Abomination looks more like a freaky alien than undead, so I'd go with the Bone Dragon, if only he was a little bigger... But yeah, the Diablo face, the enormous black wings, the long robe, doesn't get more necromantic/evil/devilish than that. :P And he's pretty tall for a mini, so makes him a lot more noticeable, and he waves the wings around. ^_^ (ya ya, me likes how the Lich looks, bite me.)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [[File:Cerebral_Tonic_and_Mini_Asura.jpg]]

A F K When Needed 18:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't upset me, I want El. Cerebral now! :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm going to side with the Poll. The Dragon it is.
 * * interrupts your correction. The Dragon it is! :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You seem to have forgotten that I was strongly suggesting him as a close second, and realizing full well that you didn't want the Lich. :P Not to say that it stopped me from saying that Lich is still the best. ;) But to each their own, and I own both. XD RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * *not sure what to say* *points at the picture* A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:16, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I like the picture. :D It's nauseatingly adorable. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

What have I become...
One Two A F K When Needed 09:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just beware of Muphry's Law. It's snared many a budding grammar nazi... often when trying to spell "grammar," oddly enough.  Nwash 12:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It'd be much better if it involved spelling spelling. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So is it "misspelling" or "mispelling"? ;-) And to answer your question, you've become better. -- ◄mendel► 17:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have? o.O A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Naw, the best is when you drive down the street and enter a Shcool Zone. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have?
 * Naw
 * Wow, nice one.
 * Psst, Rose, look down. I see you. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

TELL ME they did not get paid three times for THIS...
... A F K When Needed 17:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, Rose payed 3 times apparently...--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 17:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Stfu, my necro gets everything she wants, then a bunch of what she doesn't want, and then some leftovers on top. And that collar is da shit! XD
 * Now, who got paid 4 times for this:


 * and this:

+ +  =
 * and... uh, anyway, if you want to see them all, ask me, it'll take a few hours. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

55ing on Necro (It's an easy way to get r3 Survivor... leave me alone) outside Bergen
What'll work better with only 12 Smiting? Ray of Judgment Shield of Judgment


 * Knockdown is counterprodictive in farming, so RoJ.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 11:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It allows you to more safely aggro extra foes and kill them all at once, and RoJ requires trying to get Rangers side by side A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, actually each have it's benefits. SoJ will do more damage with a single cast, but the "pulses" will only be once every 3-4 seconds, and is less effective against the casters. Another thing, do you plan to go HM with it? If you do, then I think SoJ will outclass RoJ.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 12:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course it'd be HM o.O A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:12, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

r3 Survivor is probably easilier done by going outside Boreal Station on HM; You cannot possibly ever die and you get half a ton of XP per worm :>

Also, 55's, imo, are unreliable. Other than that; SoJ for Undead grinding. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  13:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mind if I ask how it's unreliable? Not trying to act like I don't trust your judgement or anything, but apart from enchant strippling I've always found it extremely easy and safe to 55 :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Lagg and DCs. Indeed, if you ignore that fact, it's very reliable, up to a certain threshold: Ripping and rupting hurts. Too many enemies hurts (half a sec downtime on SoA can kill you :P ). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  13:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Viper, to be fair, it's hard to not die if soloing for XP and you lag. That's not unique to 55ing.
 * And having 55ed before, I'm confident I won't over aggro, but thank you very much for warning me before I try it A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Worm farm outside Boreal, as already mentioned. Melee monsters which cannot move + ranged attacks. If you afk for weeks you'll still be alive :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  13:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I did have my heart set on 55ing :P
 * What should I do there, MM with some damage skills? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well stationary: RoJ wtfpwns? MM stuff would be nice with that (bone fiends maybe, so your minions don't die form the enemy's attacks.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 13:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RoJ doesn't catch many worms in each blast... I imagine... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * True, but what other elite would you use? the MM ones are mostly high-end caps, exept for flesh golem, but Tanakai is f'in hard to get through without dying. You could always use a tome, but still... Roj seems the safest to me.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 16:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would use an Elite Tome. As it stands I'll 55 outside Bergen. I've already used an Elite Tome on Signet of Judgment. Mistake A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Lawl. Well, it'll have to do for the moment :P --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 17:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You could use any form of ranged damage. Minions are questionable, though, since there's like 12 worms tops. RoJ and Blood Magic (LT! :O) work fine. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...um...is this LT? It's the only one I can think of tbh A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

(ri) Here's a cookie and a wall of text. Enjoy!

Those worms was how I finished my survivor. Realistically you need 2 main skills: Mark of Rodgort and Firestorm. The rest of the bar is just gravy. The worms are extremely resistant to most types of damage, especially physical, so minions won't do very well without a high level Barbs. The worms are also well spaced out, so any kind of AoE still only hits one worm at a time, and MoP is useless. I was able to kill all the worms in HM up until you get to the trees (who can kill you very fast) in about 5 minutes, so cheap scrolls worked nicely. About 10 worms with 700XP a pop with the 175% scroll. I did have Searing Flames for extra "bang" but it wasn't necessary by any means, and can be replaced by just about anything from the fire line. Mark of Rodgort + Firestorm almost finished off a worm, at level 12 Fire I imagine it could get off at least half to 2/3 his HP, as burning is awesome against any kind of armor. Add a second AoE like Breath of Fire and he should be dead before he hides. I also brought Flarespam, GoLE, Glowing Gaze, and Fire Attune. A fire wand to set off more burning if your worm is almost dead, and a +1 to fire offhand are ideal. Perfect is Kindlerock and Hajkor's Flame. And dude, investing in an elite tome for your survivor is money well spent, for once.

You can also try going MM with Fiends only, or add a Jagged for some bleeding. Bring Rotting Flesh, Death Nova if you have Jaggeds, Signet of Lost Souls, and Barbs as high as you can get them. Necrosis rounds this off for nice armor-ignoring damage, even if you're not high in the title. The rest is whatever you can think of. The best Elite for this, IMO, is Reaper's Mark for insane Emanagement and some extra degen, and you can cap it on noob island. Toxic Chill (if you don't have Jaggeds+Death Nova) and Discord (you meet the reqs for it with Barbs and Rotting Flesh) are also a possibility, but those are harder to cap and you will need a tome. Keep in mind, -10 degen is max, so only 2 degen skills are usually effective. Since you won't be getting attacked, Superior runes are ideal for death, curses, and SR, just learn where the worms pop up (always the same spots) and don't stand there. I rubberbanded and even DC'd and reconnected a few times in there, and guess what, still got my survivor r3. It's the absolute safest way to do it. Even in Dwarven Boxing you can still die if you lag and can't hit your 8's fast enough. Also, if you got money laying around, bring lockpicks. There's usually at least one, sometimes 2 chests in that one little area. Best I got out of them was a few elite tomes and Dolyak Prods. And don't EVER aggro the trees, they have crip shot - if you aggro them, map out immediately, your run is over.

In the end, whatever you do, I would personally strongly advise against going 55 for survivor, because it has zero forgiveness for errors and lag. If you're still stubborn, go with SoJ, it keeps you safer. I lost my first survivor (more than a year old ranger that got to Unwaking Waters, THK, and Bahdok Caverns) to a Devourer in a lag spike only like 100k XP from r3, and it was very stressful and disappointing. RoseOfKali 18:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh. I'm as loyal to that Poll as I was to the Tonic one.
 * Thank you very much for the WoT :)
 * The thing about 55ing is... well... I'm good at it. It was the first build that I mastered. I don't mean got good at. I don't mean understood. It was the first build I mastered. It has significance for me in that respect, and it would be truely awesome if it could play a part in me getting the Title.
 * If you don't mind me asking... do you've any idea roughly how many hours it took worm farming to go from level 20 to r3? After your WoT I'm considering it, something I did not see happening.
 * If it was quick enough I might get a Doomlore Shrine run, catch a CoF run, grab the Elite Skills, and since I'd have an elite, then go offer to "help" someone with A Land of Noobs. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm very impatient when it comes to grind, so I only could do this a few hours at a time. I finished it in about 2 weeks doing it only every couple days.  Now for some horrible math: Take about 9 minutes per run (killing, mapping, selling, running to the worms), which yields about 7k XP.  1,196,900XP (r3-r1XP)/7,000XP per run = 171 runs.  171*9 minutes = 1539 minutes = 25.65 continuous hours, give or take a little.  Not too shabby...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * thanx very much :D A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Right, I capped Reaper's Mark. Superior Runes are, imo, asking for a lagspike at the wrong time e.g. standing where I can be attacked or whatever which means Reaper's + Rotting doesn't quite cap the degen. So atm it's SoLS, Reaper's, Rotting, Vile, Necrosis (r4 atm) and Deathly. I don't plan on using Deathly, but... well, I have it - so there's no reason not to bring it. Time to give it a shot. A F K When Needed 12:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, maybe I'm sad maybe? but that's really fun. It really feels like a guilty pleasure. I was enjoying myself so much my heart nearly gave in when a Pinesoul appeared right beside me literally right beside me.
 * Yeah, probably get old quink 'n' all, but that's a pretty nice method, thanx guys! It's so safe it's lulzy. But... I get Norn rep and drops for this? umkay :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Awful, isn't it? :P Dwarven Boxing is nothing compared to Worming imo. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dwarven boxing is still some fun at least. Worm killing is boring and slow. Less risk, but it takes ages before you get some decent exp. Worm killing gives, what, 7k per 10 minutes with scrolls? Dwarven boxing gives almost 20k without a single scroll in 12-15 minutes. The huge gain offsets the risk. And if you're lagging too much, simply stop boxing and do the worms untill lagstorm is over.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 06:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Why all the redirects?
Why can't you just leave the talkpages from an article stay there? If I want to say something about the Death title for example (from where I just got redirected), I want to say it on a page relevant to it, and not clog your talkpage with stuff about something that has it's own page.--<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 18:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone on the Official Wiki said my Monk's name (Often Stonedhealer) was cool. On Often's page. The day I created that page. (like 10 minutes later)
 * I thanked him. Seven months later. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:42, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I put every single page under my namespace in my watchlist, so it immediatly gets my attention when it pops up in RC, and I also regularly check my watchlist, so I usually don't have problems with that. (And FYI, your page is in my watchlist too ^^ )--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 18:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * :O My Contributions is my watchlist tbh :P
 * While you're here, help me out please. Worms or 55ing outside Bergen? (N/Mo) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:52, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hehe, Worms seems better, less chance of dying in a lagspike. And knowing Murphy very well now (with 4 r2 survivors dying in a lagspike in total), there's a rather high chance to get one before you reach 1337k exp.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 18:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Guess I'm selling the -50 Cesta for monies, then. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:00, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of farming (Riting my way through CoF as 600) for monies for another Elite Tome, I'm getting the monies and not needing them. That works.
 * Anyway... you were going to say what about my Title?
 * On other news, nearly time for my 1st (3rd) archive. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:04, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Death Title
I approve of this title, even if "I am very retarded." (Hey, I was still pretty noobish when I started that character.) Nwash 19:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the comment. I'm unhappy with r3 personally, as I don't feel entirely comfortable with such usage of the word but... with half the Guild Wars not GuildWiki Community talking about raping in the game several times a day... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Rofl... I half smell like a bone fiend, 5,001 deaths. XD (Yeah, my LDoA is a corpse.) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 23:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm... too achievable... should it be character based? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 10:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget about those who death level their pets! Granted, one could use heroes instead, but anyway... Nwash 11:21, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Character based it is. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Suggestion for r3: "I'm very Clumsy" perhaps? For the rest, very nice. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 11:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not bad. I'll add the following suggestions:  "I'm very reanimated," "I'm very squishy," "I'm very helpless," and "I'm very recently resurrected."  Nwash 12:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thumbs up, man. Thumbs up.  I'll be proud to wear that title.  (Not because it's true or anything... no, not at all >.>) Nwash 12:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly. (Even if you did suggest what I'd already changed it to =]) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I Suffer from Lag Spikes--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 01:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx for the idea, but I'm doing my best to mimic the Maxed Titles title track as closely as possible, so prefer I'm Very ______ A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:47, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm Very Laggy? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh. I really don't see what's wrong with the current one tbh :P
 * Like the Userpage? I credited you A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know the current one, so, meh :)
 * Also, cute :> Phase 1 (or was it 2?): Denial. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm Very Hopeless A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * People Hate Me > People Kill Me imo. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's more...deathie...yes, I'm aware I'm making up words A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Deathly? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

ArenaNet bullshitting
Moved from User:A_F_K_When_Needed Ben Miller: The names may change between now and then, but essentially that's what they are. One of the key things about these PvE only skills, there's kind of two key things. One is that they're tied to your reputation with these NPC groups that get more powerful the more reputation you gain with them and the higher your rank is. The other thing is that we understand how people like to play the game and people don't like builds dictated to them, so at no point during Eye of the North that you will have to equip some PvE skills to get past a certain encounter. The PvE skills are there just to deepen your experience and to give you more options in how you play the game. ''...um...how do you get through the gates in Blood Washes Blood? Oh yeah...'' A F K When Needed 19:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ...um... that's a temporary skill, like Disarm Trap, not a PvE skill, you do not need to do any side quests to obtain it, it cannot be equipped in town, and it is not tied to the title track. Sorry for posting here, feel free to move to talk.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ...um...that's a temporary PvE only skill (never seen Ursan Aura in HoH tbh) and you must equip it or you're locked out, it's not equipped in town but it does take up a skill slot, I don't acknowledge a creditable difference A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When 15:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Needed
 * ...um... but the quote talks specifically about PvE skills, so it doesn't apply to temporary skills. And if you're in a party, only one person needs it.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, temporary. Now, can you temporairly have it in RA? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * AFK, frankly, you're missing the point. I doubt Ben had seriously considered every possibility when he made that statement. The point is that you don't have to add any PvE skill to your repertoire to beat any part of the game: you can run it with a bar with no title track skills whatsoever. The fact that sometimes you need to do stuff in PvE that you can't do in PvP is exempt from that; you don't have to do anything to get that skill. It's like running a wurm: only with a slightly different mechanic to it that means you "lose" a skill slot. The gist is that you don't need Ursanway or anything like that, the game is geared to be completeable without learning those skills. Bringing up this borderline case is just splitting hairs. -- ◄mendel► 12:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure you can, talk to the Bear Spirit and you're set. The skill isn't restricted to pve, it just happens that you can only get it from an NPC there. There are temporary skills in pvp, how about Costume Brawl. If you start thinking "but those are just normal skills" consider a player who only owns one campaign but gets temporary skills from the others. Those skills should be locked because the relevant campaign isn't owned. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  13:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As you well know "it" = Ursan Aura which, no, you cannot have in PvP. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mendel's point is the better way to handle that quote. All I'm saying is that if you look at PvE skill half of the definition says that it's locked out while in pvp. We don't know if Ursan Aura is locked out, so it doesn't fit being called a PvE skill unless you're guessing, and if you are guessing, the fact that it's not equippable in town, isn't tied to an attribute or profession, and doesn't stay out of that zone points to it being a completely different kind of skill than any of these. (I admit the costume brawl bit is confusing, I decided against using that argument.) -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  15:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Strictly seen, the Ursan Aura is a PvE skill required to continue the mission, so AFK is right in that. It also doesn't matter wether skills are "locked out" in PvP, because there will never, ever be an opportinity to find out. It will never be available in PvP, so it is in the most strict way possible, a PvE skill.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 16:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It's only available in PvE, and you must equip it. End of. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Re OP: Heart of Shadow. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:49, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you jump over otherwise impassable obstacles (exept for monsters) with shadowsteps? No. Only teleport can do that, and there are no ways of aggroing the charr at the other end of the gates.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 16:52, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * True. Didn't think of that.
 * Still, imo, Ben Miller is right. As Rose said, Ursan Aura isn't necessarily a PvE skill. It's just not available outside that mission (heck, you could call it a Blood Washes Blood skill while you're at it. It's the only quest you'll get it!).
 * Oh, also, you could let someone else take it ;o --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It's still a PvE skill in the most strict meaning of the word, it's only available in PvE. And if you let someone else take it (which would be pretty stupid, as it's ursan pre-nerf), that person is still forced to take it, rending Benny's statement incorrect.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 17:26, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've gone from thinking nobody agreed with me to thinking that most of you simply don't understand the point.
 * Can you get it in PvP?
 * No.
 * Is it a skill?
 * Yes.
 * What are such things called?
 * PvE only skills
 * Do you need it to be used for you to complete a mission in GW:EN?
 * Yes. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:36, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PvE skill =! PvE only skill. I know it's a mess that in normal english use they look the same but a "PvE skill" is the name of a type of skill with specific rules attached, it is not just a "skill" you only get in "pve". IF you don't get this, then I'll just not bother explaining more. -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  01:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that Ben's statement is basically incorrect. I also agree with mendel, though; it's splitting hairs awfully fine.  It's likely just an error, or at worst, a very minor exaggeration.  Calling it bullshitting implies significant dishonesty, and this just isn't significant.  (Edit:  I was lazy earlier.  Actually bothering to look up and see the guy's name this time, I'll modify my ambiguous reference.)  Nwash 17:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 17:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nwash, did you typo that first sentence by any chance? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:51, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I understand what you meant now. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:52, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To go further into what ezekiel just said: The problem is, how can one check that those PvE only skills are not PvE skills internally? They just can't be checked, so either a-net has been lazy and let them remain a normal (albeit temporary) skill, or they also made them function as a PvE skill internally. Anyway, we'll never know, and for this argument, it doesn't even matter tbh.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 09:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well I hate to point this out to anyone but you are wrong. The entire argument could have been avoided by reading the original explanation. Specifically the lines "One is that they're tied to your reputation with these NPC groups that get more powerful the more reputation you gain with them and the higher your rank is." In Blood Washes Blood you get the skill Ursan Aura, you are confusing it with Ursan Blessing. Ursan Aura the actual skill you use in the mission is NOT tied to any title track. Therefore it lies outside of the original definition. 76.123.149.130 10:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)((Tenetke different comp didnt feel like signing in))
 * Sigh... that really is covered in attitude. What we're... debating... is that, while he waffles on about various things, Ursan Aura, as well as Ursan Blessing is only available in PvE - now go read the quote and the discussion to date again. We're well past the point you've made. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 13:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Are we? Because I still don't see how your point can be valid.  Aura is not tied to the rep line.  So, it's not one of the skills he was talking about.  Basically, Ben's point was that you will never need to use a skill that becomes more powerful after grinding rep points, so grind will not make a required skill more effective than that of someone who didn't grind.  All the grind-associated skills are purely optional (pug demands aside).  I think that's all he was trying to say.  That's probably the only reason that the Aura skills in the 3 norn quests are NOT the elite title skills, but static title-independent versions of them.  I'm not even sure if Ursan Blessing would be capable of breaking the BWB gates.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Short and sweet: tell me how Ursan Aura "dictates your build" to you, please. -- ◄mendel► 19:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, in that interview he spoke at great length of Title associated skills.
 * Has there been some kind of bug stopping people from noticing what I have in bold?
 * And... Mendel, you serious? It replaces every other skill when activated. I consider that dictating my build. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Rose, yes it would be able to. If I remember correctly that was an update. As utterly irrlevent as that happens to be... A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:27, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Context can make a sentence someone says much clearer.
 * As for build dictation: You can return to your normal skill bar just fine. You only need it for 3 gates (2 which can be done with 1 Bear Stampede Whatevertheforkitis), not to kill the Charr. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Viper, look at it from my point of view.
 * I NEVER ONCE INTENDED, OR WISHED FOR, EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANNY TO GIVE ME THEIR OPINIONS.
 * Therefore, I did not consider context relevent. I never once said Ursan Aura is linked to a Title Track. I said it is PvE only. I was correct. End of. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Therefore, I did not consider context necessary. Apologies for being unclear. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You are wrong though. See you are complaining that Ben was wrong by saying that PVE skills are required. Yet you are ignoring his definition of PVE skills as given. The definition of PVE skills as stated requires the linking of reputation. That is defined as being a key part of the pve skills he is talking about. If you want to add to what he said you can, but he is not wrong at all in what he said. You are falling into logical flaws. Consider reading up on Affirming the Consequent. If you definite pve skills as different than his definition that is fine, but you can not use your definition to make his argument invalid. Consider the following argument What you are doing is saying you don't like cake, so I should like ice cream more. Might be better to say: but what you are doing is remove 1 and then saying "well now x can be z". While that is fine if you only have 2 and three, you must take the argument as it is. 76.123.149.130 15:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC) (tenetke again)
 * 1) I do like cake
 * 2) I do not like icecream
 * 3) to me cake is better than ice cream.
 * 1) x requires y
 * 2) y can never have z
 * 3) then x can never be z
 * DEAR GOD TENETKE
 * EVERYONE HAD STOPPED TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE DISCUSSED - WTF MAN?
 * Tell me something, I will be abrupt and short with you, as you frankly deserve little better.
 * Have you read the entire interview to have everything in the proper context to thus learn WHY he was going on about reputation and whatnot? Maybe. I doubt it. Goodbye. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Since I have absolutly no wish to have a reply, I'll add one further argument.
 * He listed some common attributes of PvE only skills, he did not say ...all PvE skills obey the following rules... he did say ...these PvE skills...
 * THOSE PVE SKILLS all PvE skills? NO - THOSE PVE SKILLS!
 * You can make more than one point in an interview, a factor your stupidity has blinded you from seeing in favour of forcing your opinion on others even after the argument had ended
 * You attempt, and fail, to wield logic by putting the part in bold in context of the paragraph without doing the same for that paragraph
 * A final comment is that even if he was giving a defintion of PvE skills - which he was not - that would merely make his definition incorrect. Goodbye, Tenetke. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:03, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You guys just made my day. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're saying that for one of two reasons... and I'm not sure which...
 * In any event, thank you for posting in this section ¬_¬ A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. XD It just gave me a visual of two guys arguing very passionately, but talking at the same time and not listening at all to each other. I think it's time for you to archive before tenetke strikes again with his mighty IP powerz. ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I, as the Policy suggests, wait three days before archiving.
 * While I appreciate the suggestion, the argument had finished, so he'd just go and start talking about it on my new shiney clean talk page.
 * Have you seen my new User Page btw? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't care about the interview, or person. I care about the logic behind your statement. I pointed out one basic fallacy you were already falling to. Then I gave a rather basic example of the same fallacy. We could go further into it, but obviously that isn't what you want. Consider for a moment though that by posting in a public place, you open yourself up to public comment. Also consider for a moment that you could just as easily not posted in a public place. Your idea of the logic behind the above argument is as flawed as your argument here. Though you should be clear on a few points. The first that I don't care if you archive this the second after someone makes a post. It is your page, contained in your user space. As far as I am concerned you could just delete the whole section instead of archiving it. Though I think you enjoy the logical arguments involved. Though I think you should restrict it just to the argument itself, and not bring emotion into it. In the above section alone you have made several flaws already. Now if you no longer wish to discuss the logical argument involved that is fine with me. Though I think in that case you should reserve posting arguments further. Again I will state that by posting arguments in a public place like this. That breads the argument of Tacit Consent and its applications to an environment such as this. That is an argument for another day, or perhaps another page. Still it will be fun to have when it does come up. I will point out that you are again wrong in your reasoning. First the quote you have given, has not tried to define all pve skills. Your argument, if structured correctly would read somewhat like the following
 * '''at no point during Eye of the North that you will have to equip some PvE skills to get past a certain encounter is false because one is required to use a pve skill to get past Blood Washes Blood.
 * If we question this, first we must define what is a pve skill. This is quite simple because it is already defined for us in the same article. The key parts of a pve skill are as follows:
 * it must be tied to your reputation with these NPC groups that get more powerful the more reputation you gain
 * they must not be required in order for you to get past a certain encounter
 * If the skill Ursan Aura meets both criteria above, then it is a pve skill that should not be required to pass an encounter in EotN. It meets neither. Now you are making the counter argument it must be a pve skill because it is not allowed in pvp. Your initial argument though, does not concern this. If the interviewed person had stated You will not be required to use any skills not allowed in pvp in order to pass an encounter in EotN Then yes your argument would be valid. That was not your source, nor was it the initial arguing point. I hope that better clarifies where you made the error at. Feel free to archive this, we can continue the discussion there. If you read my talk page you will see how aggravated I get about having a full talk page. If it would be easier for you we can continue the discussion on my talk page. I don't mind that at all. I would much rather it be filled with intelligent conversation. I suppose you could always boil all of this down to the following argument.
 * Ben Miller says that no pve skill tied to a reputation line is required to pass an encounter in eotn(taken from the article where the pve skills in question are defined)
 * I am required to use a skill that is not allowed in pvp to pass an encounter in eotn (taken from his question above about seeing the skill in pvp area)
 * Ben Miller has lied.(umm, read above for source)
 * Conclusion is wrong. We can continue to discuss on my talk page of course, but I might suggest you review a few things. I can give you a few links to logical argument structure that you might like also. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 10:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tenetke, adding "they must not be required ..." to your definition of a PvE skill makes your reasoning circular, you should drop that. -- ◄mendel► 10:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at the words in bold, as I don't put words in bold randomly just to pass the time.
 * One of the key things about these PvE only skills He is not defining PvE only skills - he is talking about SOME OF THEM..., there's kind of two key things.
 * The other thing is that we understand how people like to play the game and people don't like builds dictated In Blood Washes Blood, I think we can all agree, that at least one person has to have a skill replaced by Ursan Aura, and because of positioning of foes it is tactically unsound to end the skill and start fighting immediately in certain areas. to them...
 * ...so at no point during Eye of the North that you will have to equip some PvE skills to get past a certain encounter. He did not say "at no point during Eye of the North that you have to equip some of these reputation connected PvE skills he CLEARLY said PvE skills in general without ever specifying
 * A final point which I have made before is that HE WAS ALREADY TALKING ABOUT REPUTATION CONNECTED SKILLS - HE WAS NOT DEFINING ALL PvE SKILLS HE CLEARLY SAID THESE PVE SKILLS
 * Please never again restart a finished dispute on my talk page, I do apologise for calling you stupid. I have no emotions at this point. I am merely trying to get you to look at my argument and take it all in, I'm not trying to force my opinion on to others... I never was. I may remind you at this point you are the only one forcing your opinion on to others. You repeatedly say "you are wrong though" as if to ensure a response. Hopefully I have made it clear enough that you will at least acknoledge my argument in full this time around.
 * I am using all the ways I know of trying to force you to stop ignoring key points of mine. I find it exceptionally difficult to bring your attention to where I want it, hence the mixture of bold and caps lock to try to do so.
 * Before replying, which I don't doubt you will, I beg of you, reread where he says "...THESE PvE skills..." as with some of my argument, the word conflicts with your belief, and so you seemingly choose to ignore it. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Summary
AFK. Is it fair to summarise your argument as this: Well, I think you'd be satisfied with that. Then Tenetke, I'll summarise your argument to this: Mendel's point would normally be valid and the argument circular but Ben did say it that way unless you take it to be an unmarked interjection. If everyone is happy with that, then the only reason these arguments contradict one another is how you interpret Ben. If you believe that when someone says a word in three sentences one after the other, they are talking about the same thing. You should agree with Tenetke, it logically follows to his argument. If you believe that use of a word may change its meaning based on context, then you might agree with AFK. It doesn't necessarily follow to his argument but you can't agree with him at all without this. Don't get me wrong, you may believe that meanings change and that all these references happen to mean the same thing, which gets you back to Tenetke.
 * Ben said there are some skills linked to titles.
 * Ben said no skill only available in pve is required to finish the game.
 * Ursan Aura is required to finish the game.
 * Ben was wrong.
 * Ben said there is a class of skill herecalled "PvE Skill" which is linked to titles and is not required to finish the game.
 * Ben said no "PvE Skill" is required to finish the game.
 * By definition no "PvE Skill" can be required.
 * Ben was right.
 * So, I'm pretty-sure we can all agree that it's a problem of interpretation. Tenetke's logic is perfectly sound but doesn't work if you interpret it differently, and AFK's passion is perfectly normal so long as he ignores other possible interpretations. Yay, everyone is close-minded and I'm going to go with Rose and Mendel as the best because they didn't butt in like I did! -<font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  13:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent job.
 * Yeah, while normally I'd feel the whole "changing meaning" thing is a serious flaw in my theory, I'm trying (possibly failing) to put things in the proper context... and considering he went from "these PvE skills" to just "PvE skills"... that's really my reasoning, sorry if it fails to make sense outside my head :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 14:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC)Dear God, I just corrected a typo, I may as well edit the full page and not just the section...14:21, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Trying... to... resist... failing... sorry... I TOLD YOU SO! ^_^ If only people took the "nucular weapons" speeches this seriously... Archive now maybe? :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 3 days :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Circular logic, it is so tempting though and who can say they haven't fallen prey to it at some point. It is pointed out that the problem is one of interpretation. That is why I continue to argue that the basis of any good argument is definition. That isn't new though, I mean just look at Socrates. Man that guy is great. Back on topic, to AFK I never intended to make you feel like you obviously feel. If you look back through my talk page history, and most of my history on various other user pages, you will see that I love discussing things like this with intelligent people. I consider you intelligent, or I would not even bother posting here. I would just say "blah, idiot" and ignore it. I have honestly enjoyed the above, can you honestly say you haven't enjoyed even a bit of it? There really is something wonderful about having a discussion in this manner. You have people from all over, completely different backgrounds, ethnic and religious belief systems, conversing in a civilized manner. Can you honestly say that it doesn't make you smile a bit? Maybe that is just me. If it helps, I agree with you somewhat. I think that it was a foolish statement to make by that person. The reason I brought up all of the above was just for the fun of the discussion. Do you understand? Maybe not, maybe so, but at your request I will stop posting about it on your user page. Btw Rose there were people that took those speeches seriously, it is unfortunate that people who enjoy the above are a small minority. The regular person would rather ignore the finer points of a discussion though. Most people don't sit around with friends and discuss how to properly structure an argument, but believe me it can be great fun. Take just the example of this. If P is Q, Y is Q, then Y is P. Basic, yet incredibly fun to argue. The big problem with that one, is one of quantification. As to the above about pve skills I think one big problem was that I didn't properly explain what the Domain of discourse was. If I had properly identified it as the scope of the interview only, as I believed it to be and assumed that was accepted, this would have all been much easier I think. Sorry about that. Anyway it was a fun discussion I think, and I know you might cringe to hear this but I hope we have more in the future. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 19:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, you know how much I love to argue with logic. ^_^ I can actually be educational, because good arguments can teach you something. And if only the "right" people took those speeches this seriously. :P Alas, the logic behind world politics continues to elude me. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well hopefully Im not pissing AFK off by commenting more, but I completely agree with you. The world of politics has no logic, or for that matter ethics anymore. I gave up when people in America start voting/notvoting for a person based on skin color. I mean, wtf is wrong with people. Thinking along the lines of "hey it doesn't matter if he is an idiot/genius he is the wrong/right color". Ugh. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 06:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No. Not pissing me off.
 * I'm the same as you. Except, as well as interested such things always make me... laugh. I don't know why, it just does. I can greatly enjoy it, and I would like to thank you for the compliment.
 * I'd also like to apologise again for my earlier insult. It stemmed from the infamous Doom incident. I always pride myself (more impressive when you take into account I'm just 17 :P) that if I am wrong, I will hold my hands up and admit that. That's why it irks me to such a degree, when people claim I am wrong, or guilty of something I don't consider myself guilty of.
 * I had never expected or wished for a reply... as a discussion evolved and more people got involved, I saw all the trademarks of the community building something up just to slap me with 100% of the blame and ban me again. (If you're wondering, you can check, I've not been banned often. Amusingly, I asked to be banned once, it was refused and I have never once been banned and agreed with the ban. Oh well, what differences of view can do...)
 * It was that sense of frustration and seeming injustice that really brought out the worst side to me, when I thought I had avoided a band I didn't deserve, I saw someone who I persumed to be a troll merely insisting on keeping it going.
 * Now I know my mistake, and apologise for it, as for the insult. I can greatly enjoy such things, yes. My two grandfathers are the biggest influences I have. One was unfailingly logical (though never in a cruel way, the fairest man I have ever known) and the other was the definition of a people person. You could hate him, he'd buy you a drink and five minutes later you'd be best friends, I've never understood how he managed it, but nobody ever disliked him.
 * Please understand though, I'm now... cautious... as the community can add a few people to the mix, claim wikidrama. then start whipping out bans. While I enjoy such discussions, they are the reason I'm eternally in awe of, and amused by, Mendel, I don't feel as comfortable in this community to have such debates. Often on this site two people can be having an intelligent discussion, only for a passing observor to insert "Don't Feed The Trolls".
 * I know now that you're not trolling my talk page and just here for an intelligent exchanging of views, by all means go for it. When you're done I'll give it three days and archive it.
 * I try to be reasonable, for one thing (not shown to great extent when calling people stupid, but anyway...) even in that link when I failed to agree with Jon, who was busy blaming me, I did thank him for something that he said. For the record, I know it's not much of an excuse, but I'm 17. While I fail quite often, I do try. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not long enough, so I'll add one more point ;)
 * I think that it was a foolish statement to make by that person. Please don't think I failed to notice that comment, by the way. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * AFK, please expect us to warn you before you get banned; if nobody even warns you, you don't need to worry. :) Also, you seem to think more before you post now than you did then. -- ◄mendel► 23:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, I do? I knew you're never an open book, but I thought one thing you once said to me, which meant a great deal, no longer held true, now I am just curious more than anything else. You encourage thought... a good thing if confusing at times. :P A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "one thing you once said to me, [...], no longer held true" &mdash; I don't remember what you're referring to, alas; though I would like to. -- ◄mendel► 22:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

What to prove
(Reset indent) Ask yourself: do I want to prove the statement wrong as I read it, or as the author meant it? -- ◄mendel► 23:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As I read it, otherwise he used imo bad formulation, Tenetke agreed it was something he really shouldn't have said.
 * On other news, did you type that, or did you use as you often recommend others use? =) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 11:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late response I didn't want to keep posting and stop your archive. I don't really care much about the whole wikidrama stuff. I guess I got involved in some and took a break. I think most users are just here to keep things documented or have good discussion with intelligent people. Of course there are some... Mendel is also pretty upfront, if he tells you something you can trust him. Plus he is the kind that is just honest, so if he gives you a compliment you can be sure he means it. Otherwise he won't waste his time giving a false compliment. Probably one of the reasons he is so respected. [[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 22:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * lol... don't take this as insulting, but I don't understand
 * Knowing that I'm waiting to have no comment for three days, you wait a few extra hours, then "reset the timer"? ;) A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't want you to think I was offended, or just being rude by not talking to you. I enjoyed talking to you above, and I continue to enjoy it. So I will wait till you archive to post anything else on your user page. You should start the next one off though with a mudkip just for nostalgia lol. [[Image:Wikismiley.svg|19px]][[Image:Spikeicon.png]]  Tenetke Mekko    My Talk 00:57, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course this now ensures that somebody'll post something every two days just to spite you. :) -- ◄mendel► 22:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * YOU BASTARD ><
 * I won't do it despite you, I'll do it to spite you. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The above section...
...is something that has happened to me before. People are all discussing (soon to be arguing) over definitions 'cause I had the sheer arrogance to use my Userspace to keep a quote I wished to have at hand. While it's transpiring because everyone feels the urge to throw their two cents, it will soon be labeled wikidrama at which point I will start to recieve warnings... oh joy... It may well have been avoided had they bothered to notice what I put in bold, the rest of the paragraph was not necessary, merely there, again, in case I should want to have it to hand. Perhaps the powers-at-be could, in future, look at how happily or otherwise Users have recieved comments on their talk page, before blaming those same users for wikidrama... So I urge you all to avoid throwing your unwanted opinions in, before I get slapped with a ban. Thanx much. A F K When Needed 19:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I guess people get wound up when they see inaccurate accusations about the game/creators they love. Has been happening a lot on the GWW lately. :( And I don't see how there would be a ban here. It was a discussion, no NPA or other rule breaking. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 20:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be sorry - there's no need. I've been banned before for being "over emotional, needing a break", etc. So... yeah, more than possible. And oh please. People love ArenaNet since when? A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 20:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * http://xkcd.com/386/ Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 21:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * /agree
 * oh well A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh god, I think that's a pet peeve of mine... >_< RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 21:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

It's own section.
Tenetke, you amused me when talking about me myself. If you don't mind me saying, though... not very impressive with my current User Page pretty much telling you the same thing A F K When Needed 11:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

All professions userbox
Meh, I suppose it doesn't fit into your scheme, but I just made an all professions userbox today. Even has a category associated with it and everything. Needs nothing more than <tt> </tt> too. Nwash 19:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)