Talk:Edge of Extinction

Does anyone know what "creatures of the same type" means? Is it the same species? (same factor as Dwarfslaying and Deathbane) or is it the same party? Or something else? I get hit with this thing in the Forest in the Fissure, otherwise I don't see it much and I would like to understand how it works. If it works on species, does this mean that if I am fighting the bandits and I kill one, that everyone in my own party will be hurt? Anyone with a ranger to confirm that? --Karlos 22:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I just tried it with the Renegades outside Fort Ranik and I took damage from the spell when I killed them. --Rainith 23:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Definitely not same party. Same species is my guess. It is sometimes used by annoying HoH teams when they know they are going to be slaughtered -- leave an Edge just before dying, and maybe you'll wipe out the winning team and prevent them from getting the chest. Never used it in PvE, though. I do have a PvE ranger, so I'll go test out your bandit hypothesis now. (UPDATE: Oh, I see Rainith beat me to it.) &mdash; Stabber (talk) 23:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Dang. I know that's how all ranger nature rituals work, but that seems kinda stupid. I guess we should place a not on that. --Karlos 07:41, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

As a note, this ritual can be used to classify species for various creatures - the classification of "species" otherwise is a bit sketchy. For example - all pets and tamable animals are the same in the eyes of EoE; if you kill a wild dune lizard in the desert it will cause your tamed bear to suffer damage, so although they differ in appearance they are the same type: Animal. --Epinephrine 16:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately it can only be used like that if the creatures are in the same area. I don't know of any Golems/Elementals in the same area as the Abominations, so there's no way to test them for that.  --Rainith 18:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

need confirmation on the Thunderhead Keep
It's hard for me to verify on my own, but I have reason to believe that the Thunderhead Keep comment is incorrect, and that King Jails actually belongs to an "alternate" species just like Prince Rurik in the Nolani Mission (Prince Ruric's "non-human-ness" can easily be verified by a self-killing necro or mesmer with EoE). If someone else can either confirm or disprove, much appreciated. -PanSola 09:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Dwayna's Sorrow
Everybody go to Dwayna's Sorrow so we can talk about how much that skill is going to destroy any use of EoE in PvP ever again. >_> Evan The Cursed (Talk) 08:15, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * "Target and nearby allies" Evan The Cursed (Talk) 08:29, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * Still, if you have 5 seconds after spotting EoE, this will save you. --Xeeron 17:41, 27 March 2006 (CST)

EoE and drops
When attacking a large number of Charr, I noticed that only the ones I killed directly had any drops. The ones killed by the EoE dropped absolutely nothing! I verified this numerous times, and since I was soloing I would have gotten any drops, so I would have seen them, unlike when henchies get them. --Kristy Dragonslayer 17:18, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This is should be a note on the article itself. As for the reason, I assume there is some kind of loot dropping mechanism in place that only gives loot if the creature dieing was damaged by a player and obviously EoE does not count as damaged by the player. --Xeeron 18:45, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * There is an explanation for this. In the experience points article it is mentioned that if NPCs and other foes deal significant damage to your enemy it will not give you xp. It also will not frop loot in this case. Apparently you only get xp and loot if you or your party deal most of the damage by yourself, not by any other means. It is weird thou that skills like traps give xp and loot but EoE doesn't. I will edit this info into the xp and loot articles. 19:03, 3 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This makes sense in that let's say in some area you find two different mobs fighting each other to the death, and one group wipes out the other. If the losing party dropped loot, all one has to do is wait until they all die and just go collect the loot, then log back to town, then come back to that same spot and repeat.  You can get free loot doing nothing.  You see this sort of mechanism (only receiving loot for mobs that you kill) in many other MMO type games, e.g. Everquest. --Draevius 3:00, 16 October 2006 (PST)


 * This is not generaly true. while farming nolani with an eoe/barrage ranger, I barrage the few charr who are meele attacking me, but even those outside my agro are droping loot for me. what you have expirienced might be the decline of drops after farming a lot in the same way. I got to the state that those 10~15 charr drop only two or three drops, but at the begining I defently got drops [and xp] from even from those outside my agro. Foo 04:04, 1 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm a bit late in replying to this, but then, EoE became a bit of a hot topic again today after the most recent nerf. I tried Jade Wind Orb-farming outside of Ran Masu Gardens, using Barrage and EoE. Even at my first tries, the Mantises that were generously out of my reach but still in Spirit reach, did not drop Jade Wind Orbs, money, or any other kind of item. It could just be that this has to do with a certain range between you and your enemy though - stray too far and the enemies don't drop loot? Just a theory. --Black Ark 03:19, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * The reason that the mantises didn't drop anything was that you hadn't initiated combat with them. You should have been in aggro range or otherwise in combat with them. Now they just died without being in combat. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 12:10, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

Luxon Warriors
Incidently, I noticed while playing in Fort Aspenwood that Luxon Warriors trigger/are damaged by Edge of Extinction. - Greven 03:15, 8 June 2006 (CDT)

As are all the Kurzick NPC's, making EoE very dangerous for the Kurzicks if put in the right place.

Technically this statement (allied NPC's) renders "Human non-hostile NPCs (including allies but not henchmen party members) are considered a different type of creature compared to regular humans. Additionally, service NPCs (collectors, merchants, etc) belong to yet a different type of creature." completely false. You can see this also in the Vizunah Square mission where the Canthan Peasants, although "Human non-hostile NPCs," count as the same type of creature as regular humans players.69.181.124.75 17:13, 2 August 2006 (CDT)


 * When you use the word "completely", make sure you have TESTED completely. I suggest you start with Prince Rurik nad the Flaming Sceptor Mages in the Nolani Academy mission. - 18:04, 2 August 2006 (CDT)


 * BTW, the note was there before Factions came out. It looks like the situation is better with the Factions campaign, but a quick test at Lonnok Courtyard shows the three NPCs there (Togo & friends) are also immune to EoE from player death (but once they got to Master Cho's Estate they start taking damage again).  Also Ran Su Jun the Prophet, Taojo, Corpse Thief Mang, Minister Thannai, Minister Tanei, Kyuzo (Collector), and Sheco do not take damage from EoE due to player death. - 18:21, 2 August 2006 (CDT)
 * there is probably a good reason why all these criters have different speices data, and it's probably got something to do with programmer laziness. programmers are notoriously lazy. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 20:49, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Nerfed
Good luck using this... There is some possiblity still for spikes, etc., but it will be MUCH harder now. 66.26.40.8 06:40, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * makes it pretty well useless for species data, too, you can't tell if the damage was from EoE or from the sword you're using to keep health below 90%. why'd ANet do this? is it just a weekend change? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:24, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd hazard a guess that it's a permanent change. EoE is horribly unbalancing to the Fort Aspenwood mission (although aspenwood seems to have other balance problems that tilt it towards the luxon side, and I say this having played on both sides of it).  --66.92.73.217 10:43, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I can't possibly see this skill ever hitting anyone skill bar anymore :( &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by SK (talk &bull; contribs) 10:54, 18 August 2006 (CDT).
 * i'm thinking it's a weekend change, this puts quite a few builds in the bin, and the spirit was ballanced enough prior to the change. the fix for aspenwood is to make the commander a different species. that way EoE is still useful, but not unballancing. but then, this batte was ment to be unballanced, it's counter-insurgency, after all. see Talk:Fort Aspenwood. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 11:30, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Removed the notes that no longer apply. I am very happy with this update, I have said in the past "They need to nurf eoe". =D (Mercurius Ter Maxim 11:41, 18 August 2006 (CDT))

from the Guru forum dev tracker:
 * Tried usind EoE as I had before, Grawl Bombing. The skill is almost completely worthless now. Please god let this only be a weekend change. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.182.162.43 (talk &bull; contribs) 15:36, 18 August 2006 (CDT).
 * looks like this is not a "weekend only" change...

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick Hey guys and I just wanted to clarify something. EoE was not “nerfed” simply because it became a problem in Alliance Battles. From the mouth (or rather and fingers since it was typed ) of Isaiah (The skill balancing king) himself: “we don't want to change this just because of AB. EoE is a problem everywhere it's used: Tombs, AB and PvE [and] Farming.”

I have seen first-hand what EoE did on the field in Alliance Battles, Tombs and PvE and I agree with this change 100%. Yes, this had effects outside of Alliance Battles and even outside PvP and but that was the intention.

No one is trying to “nerf” you and we just want to maintain a game where victory and success is earned by player skill and not a skill. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Midnight08 (talk &bull; contribs) 15:47, 18 August 2006 (CDT).


 * I for one think this is crap and hate knowing they will never change it back even if we all bitch about it. Anet seems to do what it pleases, its players be damned.  Great way to run a company. Suplyndmnd
 * I think that this is a perfectly valid and needed skill balance. If you've been basically anywhere you've probably seen EoE being abused.  Everything from full game wipes in ABs to full fortress wipes in FA to IWAY EoE bombing in HA to Grawl EoE bombing in farming to just plain bombing the monsters in PvE.  this skill deserved a nerf, and I for one am happy for it. --Theonemephisto 18:47, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * IT'S A SPIRIT. You can kill it in 3 wand hits.  Or can you not take 5 seconds to kill it?  Anyway.  This nerf angers me.  It's a worthless skill now.


 * Yes. Such a harmless looking spirit causing so much chaos and destruction.... --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:04, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

If they had some integrity they would have removed it at all instead of making a mockery out of us. Foo 20:19, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * i do find it insulting that the break it rather then remove it. be honest. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:17, 18 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I tend to agree. Nerfing was needed and is okay, but if you're going to break it completely, just remove it already. -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 03:43, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Or even, try to make peace with us rangers, and replace it with another skill. but I guess I'm asking for way to much... Foo 03:51, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I had no idea so many people liked this horrible skill so much. I guess it could've used a different change instead - one where allied users could also opt to attack the Spirit of Extinction. That's something I've often wished for, upon realizing that it wasn't one of my enemies that used that skill to damage me, but in fact one of my own teammates. I guess that doesn't swing in the Tombs though. For what it's worth, I'd like to see another skill in its stead. How `bout a copy of Lightning Reflexes? I need that to, uh, cause all of the pain to go away. --Black Ark 05:03, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
 * To change a bit Edge of Extintion is relevant, I think, nevertheless, that 90% health for it to have effect is too much, and 95% -or even just 99%- is more interesting. (Much, like with Offering of Blood which changed from 10% to 20% health sacrifice... I think 15% would have been proper, and 20% is too much). I may still imagine a tactic of degenerations plus Edge of Extintion bomb, this is why I think that the skill may be still worthy. I think this way: for enhancing players' skill and players' ability to cooperate in a team any given player build and any given team build may be nerfed, and random skills' combos -say: card games style-, as well as random teams -say: random arenas style- may be taken more seriously.--mariano 06:37, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

I don't see how this nerf rendered the entire skill worthless. Granted, people will no longer be able to simply make a weak suicidal character and still win HA and other PvP battles, and PvE farmers won't be able to annihilate large amounts of monsters with the same tactic. Now, people have to be able to do around 50 damage to their opponents before commiting suicide. Does it make it more difficult for people to use EoE bombs? Yes.It requires people to adapt to changes and play better. However, does it make this a useless skill? No. People will start coming out with new EoE builds, and teams using EoE will have to use greater skill in syncing EoE bombs, but for those who want to use it, they will adapt, and become all the better for it. EoE bombs will require talent, not just a team of people with 55 health that can kill themselves quickly. I guess its too much to ask that people actually work towards winning. VegJed 14:15, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

I don't even see this affecting edge bombs, just hit everything with energy surge, even ONE surge would bring them to about 80% but your bound to hit everything *shrug* &mdash; Skuld 14:21, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

VegJed, have you even used EoE? Or just seen it used? I dont understand the complaints about EoE...if you dont want it to affect you, KILL THE DAMN SPIRIT! IT'S ONLY LEVEL 8! It takes what, *3* hits to destroy one, maybe less? So in 4 seconds you can take care of it. This change is bullshit, pure and simple--remove a skill if you're going to break it this completely. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.182.162.43 (talk &bull; contribs) 13:39, 23 August 2006 (CDT).
 * as much as i agree with the angry anon, his tone leaves much to be desired. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 13:46, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd have to disagree with those b*tching about the nerf, it takes more than a few wand hits, to take down a spirit as fast as you say you'll need a warrior to take his focus off a target and wipe the spirit, or have all the casters focus on the spirit for a mass wanding. When I'm monking it out I tend to try and wand the nearby spirits griefing me when healing isn't necessary, but avast it's only for a rough fraction of it's health. Kamahl 14:32, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Does anyone know if EoE works before or after Death Nova? 85 damage is more than enough to let EoE in.
 * You really are blowing it way out of proportion. EoE still has many uses including Urgoz's warren, Raisu palace. UW and many other places where the mobs are of insane size. In urgoz's warren if you loose the rangers carrying EoE it's pretty much game over.

Bugged
While doing runs in foundry, i found that EoE also did damage on us monks and eles when the bip necro died. We even got this damage while we were 100%. Somebody has the same experience?Jelmewnema 08:21, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, you get a similar result when it's used in Alliance Battles. (It was an annoying ranger thing for a while... -.-) I don't why this occurs, but even those at 100% health took damage and some even died. I haven't the slightest idea why, though. (It may have been a test run before or something, because I think it got changed between now and the time I was in AB with it.) -- Dagotta 21:05, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Incorrect Note
Alright, who's the noob who added the note that "This skill is very effective in Zaishen Challenge and Zaishen Elite because it doesn't affect the players if one of the Zaishen die."??? Whoever did, obviously doesn't know how to read descriptions. THEY ARE HUMAN, and SO ARE YOU, therefore, you get damaged by it. And I KNOW that it will damage you in both Zaishen Elite and challenge. I've done balth farming trap groups many times with my guild and we like to bring EoE. Whenever one of the foes managed to damage us, we would take severe damage from EoE once the traps triggered and killed them. Sometimes, the EoE was sufficient enough to kill the person damaged once the traps went off. True, it is effective there (as it is for any kind of farming, whether for faction or gold), but it WILL affect you in Zaishen if you get damaged enough. So, I am going to remove this note. --Lord Carnage 21:48, 12 April 2007 (CDT)