User:Entropy/archives

'''DO NOT EDIT THIS PAGE. IT IS AN ARCHIVE.'''

Please use the talk page instead if you want to leave a comment.

The first two builds are Archived here in my namespace. They work and they work well. There was significant discussion and remodeling done while it was in the Stubs phase. I don't care if they were unfavored, I use them and I know they work. Entropy 15:09, 20 January 2007 (CST)

The Cursed Hammer synergizes Curses and Hammer Mastery skills for almost-undeniable self healing and decent damage. Several Hammer attacks give a bonus effect if the target experiences Weakness; this build centers on that fact. This build would work best in PvE, TA, HA, GvG, and AB, or other situations where you can be assured of more party support, such as Hex removal and supplementary healing.

Attributes and Skills
When it is not needed, replace Resurrection Signet with any of the following options:
 * Distracting Blow
 * "For Great Justice!"
 * Frenzy
 * Rigor Mortis
 * Necrotic Traversal
 * Verata's Aura

Equipment

 * Any max damage customized hammer with the following mods:
 * *Heavy; or Zealous 5/1
 * *Fortitude; +30 Health
 * *Unconditional Damage +15% and Energy -5; or 15^50.


 * Some nearly ideal Unique hammers are Malinon's Skull Crusher and The Stonebreaker.
 * Gladiator's Armor or other armor that increases energy
 * Rune of Superior Vigor
 * Rune of Superior Absorption
 * Two Runes of Attunement (if using Energy -5 hammer)

Usage

 * Cast Parasitic Bond on as many foes as possible before engaging. Ideally one or more foes should always be hexed.
 * Lead with Enfeebling Touch.
 * Use skills from left to right. Make sure the target has Weakness on them.
 * Heavy Blow should always be used after Devastating Hammer. Followup with Mokele Smash to regain adrenaline.


 * Use Plague Touch for condition removal.
 * Reapply Parasitic Bond and Enfeebling Touch as necessary, and repeat.

Counters

 * Skills like Distracting Shot on Parasitic Bond or Enfeebling Touch.
 * Spiking and Condition / Degeneration overload.
 * Attack speed reductions such as Faintheartedness.
 * Constant condition removal to prevent Weakness.
 * Skills like Nature's Renewal which lengthen the cast time of Parasitic Bond.

Variants

 * Enfeeble could be used instead of Enfeebling Touch.
 * Overbearing Smash could be used instead of Fierce Blow if you're expecting a lot of Blocking or Evading, eg. versus Aegis, Stances, Ward Against Melee, etc.
 * Forceful Blow could be used instead of Devastating Hammer.
 * If facing Enchantments, consider taking Magehunter's Smash as your elite instead.
 * If you have a Monk or other healer on the team, consider lowering Curses and raising Strength, and taking Headbutt as your elite.

Attributes and Skills
Please see the Variants section below. This skill bar is somewhat flexible and can be adapted to the situation. For example, in an area where there will be a lot of enchantment removal, Balthazar's Spirit and Holy Wrath should be swapped out.

Equipment

 * Any max damage customized hammer with the following mods:
 * *Heavy
 * *Fortitude; +30 Health
 * *15^50


 * Malinon's Skull Crusher is nearly ideal.
 * Any armor can be used, though Gladiator's is ideal if using Energy-based skills
 * Stonefist Gauntlets
 * Rune of Superior Vigor
 * Rune of Superior Absorption
 * Extra runes of Vitae or Attunement

Usage

 * Cast Balthazar's Spirit and then Holy Wrath.
 * If your Enchantments get removed, Balthazar's Spirit should take priority over Holy Wrath, as the latter will send your energy to zero before you can cast the former.


 * Use the rest of the skills from left to right. Repeat.
 * Note that many of the skills have prerequisites, for example Bane Signet only knocks down if the target was attacking. Read the skill descriptions and keep them in mind when using skills; adjust usage as necessary.
 * Unless a knockdown is absolutely crititally needed ASAP, only use Hammer Bash after Backbreaker and any other Adrenal skills that might have charged up.

Counters

 * This build can't heal itself, remove hexes, or deal with Conditions.
 * Enchantment removal, Nature's Renewal, and/or skills and effects which cause energy degeneration (if applicable).
 * Anti-knockdown skills.
 * Skills that reduce attack speed such as Faintheartedness.
 * Constant condition removal (if applicable).

Variants
The skills that should be considered for substitution are Mighty Blow, Holy Wrath, and [.Resurrection Signet.


 * Holy Strike is a very good skill to consider substituting, though it requires energy and thus conflicts with the Enchantments.

There are a lot of possible skills that can be substituted. Based on the situation, consider substituting the following (Prophecies only skills):
 * Smite Hex
 * Smite
 * Crushing Blow
 * Belly Smash
 * "For Great Justice!"
 * Retribution can replace Holy Wrath, good if you face Mind Wrack for example.
 * Shield of Judgment (Elite)
 * Signet of Judgment (Elite)

Note that the last two do benefit from Stonefist gauntlets, whereas Backbreaker does not.

It is generally a bad idea to carry maintained enchantments and skills that require energy at the same time. In particular, Holy Wrath can't be used with any skills that require Energy.

Equipment

 * A Smiting Rod from Ornhelm Brightaxe or Arliss Vaughn.
 * A Jeweled Chalice from Mourn Drakespur or Bariel Darkroot.
 * Any armor; Ascetic's is not recommended, though.
 * Rune of Superior Vigor.
 * Extra runes of Attunement or Vitae.

Usage

 * Activate Mantra of Signets before battle.
 * In general, use skills in this order: Signet of Judgment, SoJ, Bane Signet, Banish. Timing is important; try to keep the target constantly knocked down.
 * If the foe is a melee attacker, you may wish to lead with Bane Signet instead, and save Signet of Judgment for a caster foe.
 * Dangerous spellcasters are easily denied by leading with Leech Signet.
 * Interrupt with Leech Signet and Power Drain as necessary.
 * Use Smite Hex and Drain Enchantment as necessary.
 * Reactivate Mantra of Signets as soon as it recharges.
 * If there are spirits/minions, use Banish. It deals double/quadruple damage to them.

Counters

 * This build can't (directly) heal itself or deal with Conditions.
 * Any anti-Signet skill, such as Rust.
 * Anti-knockdown skills or foes that can't be knocked down.
 * Removal of Mantra of Signets via Wild Blow or such.

Variants

 * Mantra of Inscriptions could replace Mantra of Signets, for a possibly better DPS and interrupt recharge; however, it doesn't allow for easy chain knockdowns.
 * If in an area where Smite Hex and/or Drain Enchantment are not needed, replace with Resurrect, Symbol of Wrath, or Smite.
 * If facing only Hexes/Enchantments, swap in Inspired Hex/Inspired Enchantment as appropriate.
 * If facing primarily non-caster enemies, drop Power Drain and take both Mantra of Signets and Mantra of Inscriptions. Or swap in Resurrect, Symbol of Wrats, or Smite.
 * When appropriate, consider substituting in a Mantra. For example, versus the Mursaat, Mantra of Lightning may be useful.

This article details the style and formatting guidelines for creating and maintaining new articles about character builds. This is a style guide and not an actual build article. Please do not modify the content here with build-specific information. See the next section for an explanation on how to create new pages.

Creating a new build article
Every unique build or team build must be created as a new article. Before creating, try to look through existing builds and see if a variant of your build is already available. If so, consider adding your build as a variant.

To create a new build article, you can proceed in one of two ways.
 * Edit the sandbox to create a link to your new build article. For example, if your new build is called "W/any Gallant Soldier", then add the following text to the sandbox: ""When you save the page, you will find a red link. Click on it to start editing your build article.
 * Note:
 * For optional professions, please use /any, not /Any.
 * It would be appreciated if after finishing, you could remove the link from the sandbox.


 * Alternatively, if you are more familiar with wikis, you can go directly to the URL of your new build. The "W/any Gallant Soldier" page will be at:""

For general wiki help, please see the article Help:Editing.

Important Note: ''Before a build is made, check Category:Unfavored builds to see if your build already exists. Making a build over a previous one saves both you and voters time.''

Naming
A new character build article should always be prefixed with the abbreviated names of the primary and secondary professions. Team build articles should be prefixed with "Team -" instead. Always try to come up with a good descriptive name for your article. The following are examples of good build names:
 * Build:R/N Touch Ranger
 * Build:Rt/any Ritual Lord
 * Build:Team - Ranger Spike

Template
The following is a barebones template of a new build article, ready for cut-and-pasting.

A build should only be in untested or build stubs, not both. Until your build is ready for testing, keep it in the stubs section with  and when you decide to add on the   tag, make sure to remove the build stub tag.

use "build-stub" for builds being assembled, and "untested-build" for builds that are ready for community review (DELETE THIS LINE)

Describe the build.

Attributes and Skills

 * Suggest a few optional skill(s) if you included an Optional slot in the skill bar.


 * "Generic resurrect" works like an Optional slot. Replace it if necessary.

Equipment

 * Armor
 * Weapons

Usage
Describe how to use the build.

Counters
Describe important counters.

Variants
List the major variants.

Sections
Begin the build article with GuildWiki:Style_and_formatting/Builds#Untested_build_tag|. This will insert a message at the top of your build showing others that it needs to be tested. After the build undergoes vetting, it will be replaced with either  or. If you do not add the  tag, it will be added for you by someone else.

Immediately give a short summary of the build. Do not title this summary section as "Overview" or "Introduction", as these titles are understood. It is generally preferred to begin the summary by stating outright what the build does. For example, the R/N Touch Ranger build begins as follows


 * A Touch Ranger makes use of a ranger's durability in getting close to his opponents, and uses the "touch" skills from the necromancer's arsenal to steal his opponents' health and deal a large amount of armor ignoring damage. Because the touch skills are not spells, the ranger primary attribute of Expertise helps to reduce their cost greatly.

Notice that the build is referred to in bold (sans the profession prefix). This section should generally contain:


 * A mention of the key skill(s) in the build
 * A listing of which game styles (PvE or PvP) it applies most to. For PvP, a further clarification of Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Heroes' Ascent, Guild versus Guild or Alliance Battle should be given.

Do not fill the introduction with:


 * A mention of every skill used in the build
 * A list of attributes and ranks
 * Detailed usage or counter discussion.

This introduction section should be no longer than a paragraph.

Attributes and Skills
Use the template to list the attributes (documentation).

Use the template to list the skills.

See the example above. The attribute listing should use the rank + headgear + rune syntax. Do not add spurious = signs in the attributes or you will confuse the template.

Make sure your attribute point allocation is correct (i.e. you haven't got left over points or used more than 200 points). The Attribute point spending article can be used to check this.

Equipment
List only the following:
 * Essential weapons
 * Essential armor

Do not list runes (which can be derived from the attribute listing) and non-essential gear. Try to be as brief as possible.

Note: The only time runes should be listed is when they are essential to the farming builds (e.g. when you have to switch armor or mask at a keypoint in the run).

Usage
Present usage information as much as possible in brief and in bulleted form.


 * Wikify the first mention of a skill, but do not wikify all mentions.
 * Try to be as brief in your descriptions as possible. You do not need to document game mechanics such as "hit C to target nearest" unless it is essential and non-intuitive. Assume that readers know how to play the game.

Counters
List the counters to the build as stated.


 * Only list the principal and effective counters for the key idea of the build.
 * Do not mention general counters such as "run away" or "kite" unless it is extremely relevant to the build.

Variants
List the principal variants of the build.


 * Try, as much as possible, to not suggest replacements for the key skills in the build.
 * If a variant you suggest requires an entirely different style of playing, it should be in a different build article.
 * There should only be one attribute and skill bar in a build page. Here, if what you're trying to do cannot be described on one or two lines, it is usually not a viable variant.

See Also/External Links
In this optional section add references to related pages on the GuildWiki or well known external sources.

Standard limits on linking to external sites apply. Do not link to your guild's website. The link will simply be removed.

Untested build tag
Once the build is for community testing, apply the tag. The codes for the build types are as follows:
 * {| border="1"

! Build type code !! Category !! Game-play type
 * - align="center"
 * - align="center"
 * AB || Alliance Battle builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * CM || Competitive Mission builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * GvG || Guild vs Guild builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * HA || Hero's Ascent builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * HB || Hero Battle builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * RA || Random Arena builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * TA || Team Arena builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * PvP team || PvP team builds || PvP
 * - align="center"
 * farming || Farming builds || PvE
 * - align="center"
 * running || Running builds || PvE
 * - align="center"
 * hero || Hero builds || PvE
 * - align="center"
 * PvE team || PvE team builds || PvE
 * - align="center"
 * general || General PvE builds || PvE
 * }

Build Categories
Place your build in one of the following categories, based on what campaigns the skills it uses come from:


 * Category:Prophecies builds
 * Category:Factions builds
 * Category:Nightfall builds
 * Category:Multi-campaign builds

Do not add categories to the top of the article as it will mess up the spacing. Categories go at the very bottom of articles. Categories will stay commented out (between ) until and unless the build favored, but they help determine which campaign(s) the build was created for.

When writing a build article, it is important to keep in mind many different things. This article lists some basic steps to help you submit good builds to the wiki.

Build Content

 * Builds should follow the GuildWiki:Style and formatting/Builds|Build outline.
 * Copy over the syntax in the Build Outline, and fill in the appropriate fields.


 * There should be a minimal number of Optional Slots.
 * Suggestions to Optional slots should be included.


 * The build should be unique; it should be distinct enough from all the existing builds.
 * Attributes and Skills: Are they the same, or very similar to existing builds?
 * Purpose: What is the goal of your build? Are there any other builds with identical uses?
 * Variants: Is your build already included under the variant of another article?
 * If any of the above is true, reconsider posting the build.


 * There should generally be runes suggested for all Attributes of the selected Primary Profession.
 * For Example, a Necro build using Soul Reaping is expected to at least have "+ 1" after the base attribute level.

Quality of writing

 * The build should be written precisely, to specific detail, without sounding redundant or stupid.
 * Review your use of grammar in the build.


 * Build should not contain any first-person point-of-view.
 * Convert all POV's into second-person (ie, I would take a break here -> you should stop here).


 * Build should consist mostly of fact, rather than opinion.
 * Do not use a lot of "I think" or "It is believed that".


 * There should not be any spelling or grammar mistakes.
 * Use a spell checker and make sure there are no red links because you've spelled something incorrectly.

Build Performance

 * Build should have been tested prior to posting it on GuildWiki.
 * Do not submit "ideas" for builds.


 * The build should be able to achieve its goal, and do so with minimal difficulty.
 * There should not be other builds out there that do the same job with less effort.


 * The build should be able to deal with the range of situations it is designed for, and survive through minor disruption.
 * The build should include ways to deal with the most common counters to the build


 * The build should be able to last for the full duration of the fight it is intended for.
 * Builds with heavy energy use should incorporate skills that help recover or regain spent energy. (see energy management)

PvE Builds

 * The build should be able to deal with errors made by other players.
 * Neither henchmen nor humans are perfect, the build should be able to deal with a reasonable amount of errors by others.


 * The build should take the behavior of Mob AI into account.
 * Example: Do not use AoE damage against mobs who are not supposed to scatter.

PvP Builds

 * Should take into account the different level of intelligence of the opponents.
 * Many tactics that work against the AI will easily be countered by real humans. Do not rely on these for PvP.


 * The build should take common other PvP builds into account.
 * Try to exploit tactics that are common in PvP, while using ones which are not usually countered themself.


 * Should include what area of PvP they are intended for.
 * Specify which part of PvP the build is intended for (GvG, Random Arenas, etc) and add the category.

Random Arena Builds

 * The build should adapt to the fast pace of fighting.
 * For example: There should be a really good excuse, if the build includes no Resurrection Signet.


 * Since teams are randomly formed, the build should not overly depend on other characters.
 * In particular: It should not be totally dependant on having a monk for healing.

Alliance Battles

 * The build should be able to deal with the NPCs present in the alliance battles.
 * It is easy to exploit the static character of the NPCs present, the build should aim to do so.


 * The build should specify which tactics it uses in Alliance Battles.
 * Is the build used for capping, mobbing or something else?


 * There is an automatic resurrection function in alliance battles so there is usually not a need for a resurrect skill.
 * This seems to be the general opinion of the community, so if you do include one in your build make sure it works well and for a purpose, with clear instructions of when and how to use it.

Competitive Missions

 * The build should be able to deal with the NPCs present in the missions.
 * ''It is easy to exploit the static character of the NPCs present, the build should aim to do so.


 * Since teams are randomly formed, the build should not overly depend on other characters.
 * In particular: It should not be totally dependant on having a monk for healing.

Similar Builds

 * In several cases (Minion Master builds, Assassin Combo builds, 55 monk builds) of builds which are very popular in the game, a huge number of builds has been submitted to the wiki, which only differ in minor aspects. Always search for similar builds before submitting, but look especially carefully if submiting one of these builds.

Existing Builds

 * If your build already exists, there are two options available to you.
 * If the existing version of the build is unfavored, the unfavored build should be modified to your liking, rather than creating a new build page.
 * If the existing version of the build is in any other category, the build should simply not be made. Instead, suggest changes in the existing version's talk page as to why your version may be better than the current revision of the article.

Your work is our work

 * Keep in mind that once you submit your build (or any other article) on GuildWiki, it becomes part of the community project. Do not expect your pristine article to remain exactly as it was when you submitted it - part of what makes GuildWiki special is the ability for articles to change over time.

Everyone benefits from scrutiny

 * Don't sweat about the small stuff. Please realize that once you submit your build, there is going to be discussion on its talk page about the merits and flaws of your dispositions. And there's a chance that some editors will vote it Category:Unfavored builds|unfavored or suggest that it be merged into an existing build. It is not meant as a personal attack on you or your creative ideas, but simply a means of ensuring that only the most thoroughly tested and generally useful builds enter the tested category.

Don't be discouraged

 * Do not take it to heart if one of your build was rated unfavored. The wiki tries only to maintain the best builds as tested, that inevitably means that many builds (which might be ok, but are not top quality) will not make it.

That cancer discussion...
I generally agree with you that I am sick of people putting up ribbons to "support a cause" especially those BIG causes that everyone supports anyways and most of the time the ribbon is used to make the person feel better about themselves (like supporting the military, or breast cancer research or being proud to be an American), I find these very elitist and made to flat out make someone feel special about doing the right thing that everyone is supposed to do anyways.

However, I found that small remark you made in your final response about having "no sympathy" for those who do not check for some reason or another to be completely unwarranted and insensitive. I hope it was just an overzealous sweeping statement you made to send a point or something, not an actual thoguht out stand on the issue. It casts grave shadows on the earlier example of your friend who has breast cancer. Do you not feel sympathy for her if she discovered it late? Or if she discovered it early enough you feel she has the common cold?

There IS a level of poverty in THIS country, where mothers work two jobs and work hard and they do NOT want to find out they have breast cancer. They just don't spend the time every few days feeling for lumps in their bathroom. Then one day they find a lump and they are at an advanced stage. You can fault them all you want, but it would tell me you have simply not experienced their side of life. These are the people who need more cancer awareness and more access to treatment, not the yuppies and middle-class folks who spend their entire afternoons searching for lumps and worrying about their weight, but the people who do not have time to follow all the healthy practices and learn them.

Finally, in my opinion, you should always have sympathy for anyone diagnosed with cancer no matter how famous/easily detectable the cancer is... I just found that to be an excessively harsh statement. I lost my mother to breast cancer and I know she tried and tried, and I also know she suffered a lot... and I greatly took offense to that statement. --Karlos 15:49, 12 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm sorry for your loss, Karlos.


 * I did not intend my statement to come off as harsh as it may have, and I apologize for the offense I caused. I think any death from a preventable disease is a shame, and I think that anybody in that situation is in a pitiable state. I did not say that I have "no sympathy" for those who do not get immediately treated, only that I have less, in general. Every person is different and my blanket statement, by itself, was inappropriate without qualifiers.


 * I am greatly opposed to the yuppies who think it won't happen to them, don't bother checking, and then end up losing their breast or their life being depicted as heroes or saints. I should have said this the first time around, as that was where my ire was meant to be directed.


 * &mdash;Tanaric 16:04, 12 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I come from a completely different paradigm where there is no such thing as a "preventable" death. I'm a religious person who firmly believes that God is involved in what goes in life and that we are in this life to be tested to prove our mettle. As such, the beginning and end of the test are two parameters that I believe are absolutely governed by God.
 * I'm a lot more concerned with the huge disparity between care given to financially comfortable people vs poor people. I think that fundamental health care should be equally available to all. I know first hand from the experiences of people I know here in the US that this is not true, at all.
 * Media depiction of people who suffer from adversity here in this country (whether they are lazy yuppies or not) is simply unrealistic. I can't stomach to watch it. It belittles the viewer's intelligence. --Karlos 08:59, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You're more generous than I am. You say "it belittles the viewer's intelligence," whereas I'm inclined to say "it reflects the average viewer's intelligence." :)


 * I am not religious, so I have to ask -- if God is involved in the test that is the dying process, doesn't the lack of medical care available to poorer people suggest that God wants them to have a more challenging trial? (For the record, I'm not trying to belittle your views; I'm genuinely curious.)


 * &mdash;Tanaric 09:27, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I disagree that it reflects the viewer intelligence. In the end, media is about making money. This is the betrayal that took place somewhere in the 80s but was never announced to anyone. I think up to the 70s, the trend in TV news was similar to news papers, i.e. cover the "big" stories that the editors think the public should know about them and cover them as deligiently as possible and with as little bias as possible. It may have started fading by the 70s even, i am judging by archived news reports I see more than actual experience since I did not live in that era, but somwhere between 1970 and 1985 this shift happened.
 * The shift was that news used to be above ratings and sales. It was more of a service to the community, to alert them about the biggest local, national and international happenings. After the shift, news was treated as part of the money making portion of business. Therefore, the choice of which news items to bring up and, more importantly, HOW these news items are reported shifted into a style that generates money instead of a style that lives up to high journalistic standards. Hence you saw a rise in hollywood style coverage of events where they dwell on the personal suffering of individual people instead of fuss about the five Ws of who, what, where, when and most importantly WHY.
 * So, whereas NPR will say that a bombing took place in an Israeli settlement and that this bombing was a result of X and caused Y damage and the Israeli government haz done Z in retalliation, CNN would have Anderson Cooper standing by a pile of rubble interviewing this distraught Israeli mother who describes how her pet cat was in the house when the explosions went on.
 * The problme is that, no one told the viewers that. The majority of viewers up until the late 90s still regarded TV news as an authoritative source on news. No one told them that the mission statement for news coverage in their local TV station was rewritten with more emphasis on what sells than what's important.
 * People have started to figure this out, and more and more people are starting to trust TV news less and less. But I don't fault people's intelligence (I do fault their laziness in standing up against this and voicing their concerns).
 * As for your other question... The test is comprehensive. It's not just about how we do individually in our personal lives and whether we pray or not. It also extends into every aspect of how we interact with the outside world, whether we are kind, gentle, honest, abusive, .... and so forth. And a big part of that test is whether we will collectively choose as a society to use our taxes to fund a new football arena, but refuse to spend more money on the health care of our poor. A big part of the test is that our lives are very intertwined and the reprecussions of our choices do not just affect ourselves. --Karlos 20:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm so sorry for interfering with a bit 'offtopic', so I restarted the indention for this message.
 * While reading your latest posts, Karlos, I got yet again confirmations on many of the differences which I knew to exist between the american and european (especially the finnish) systems. In Finland we are much closer to what you seem to hold as an ideal world. The media is as neutral as possible (unlike for example Fox TV in America). The difference between those with a lot of money and those with a little of it (I wouldn't really use the words rich and poor in Finland at all, everyone is closer to the avarage than one would imagine) isn't a big one in any aspect I could think of (education, awareness, possibilities, ...). Tax income is used to help everyone; we have free education, partially free and partially low cost health care, etc. I'm really happy to live here and I'm sad that these things are a lot worse in many other countries. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:32, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yet, more people want to migrate to the US than Finland. :P You're looking at one negative angle that we're discussing. There are still positives and negatives to look at. The educational system here is almost unique in the whole entire world. Produces Americans to say the least. I admire a lot of things about it. So, not all is bad in the land of Mr.Bush. --Karlos 06:56, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Every place has it's positive and negative sides. I didn't say that living in the US is necessarily worse than it is here, I just said that some of the things that you don't like in the US are done better here. (Btw, the migration thing might have something to do with the size difference ;) ) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:02, 14 June 2007 (CDT)


 * And, for the record, I've wanted to emigrate to Finland for the last 6-8 years or so. :) &mdash;Tanaric 09:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)