Talk:Hard mode

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Hard Mode is extremely hard....
Well, I stoped Shiro, annihilated the Lich Lord, and destroyed Abbadon. Whats that? Hard mode? sounds cool! *click* okay, enter portal, load..... thers a mob, aaand..... *WHAM* I died.

Tried this over and over and over in various areas with tons of different builds/ party arrangement... nothing changed, entered, found mob, kaboom. am i just a terrible player or am i missing something? I copied this from the archive 2, as it was archived a few hours after I posted. Sorry if I wasn't supposed to do that.


 * I find it not all that hard. A Warder and 3 Monks generally is all the defense you'll ever need (halfway through overkill) and 4 nukers. Screw tanking, screw MM's. Just pure ele power. Or Putrid Veins nuking, also works a treat, bunch of armor ignoring dmg. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 20:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Or just lol at everything and use ursan+ some monks. Lord of all tyria 20:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

okay, i guess i was just missing something then. all eles, monks, and a warder you say? players or henchies? Cnk3 20:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm one of the nukers, Zhed goes warding, Tahlk usually prots. Vekk nukes. And then Cynn, Eve. Mhenlo and Lina. At least, when I hench. Otherwise: as much heroes as possible :P They have leet reflexes --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 20:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My suggestions: HM is significantly easier if a party has *two* humans and their heroes. Many of the overpowered PvE skills also help quite a bit (notably, the Sunspear skills, and Pain Inverter is incredible at taking out particularly dangerous foes, like bosses with AoE damage).  I usually play my monk in HM, and I run prot.  Having a human protter is very helpful: their reaction times are certainly not nearly as good, but good judgment on use of energy and prot enchants is *essential* (e.g., pre-protting the puller, putting the appropriate enchies on the appropriate people (e.g., guardian or SoD on the ally getting mobbed by assassins, but PS or Spirit Bond on the ally getting whomped by the warrior boss).
 * Still...having a human damage-specialist is powerful, as they can take out the foes that need to be taken out first, and make sure the herohenchies are also concentrating on the important foes. When I solo monk herohench in HM, the hardest thing for me is directing herohench attacks at the right targets while keeping track of my own casting on allies.
 * If all else fails, I keep a few consumables around for emergencies. Golden eggs and candy corn give me a tiny boost (almost unnoticable, but just slightly helpful) to get past high pressure situations (stupid Mantids in Wajjun...), wintergreens will help keep me from being targeted if DP starts building up (when I go down, the party goes down...), and when things get particularly shitfucked, I toss on a Grawl of Might, Armor of Slavation, or Essence of Celery, for situations with DP and very nasty mobs (oh, how I hate Shelket's mob, in Alkali Pan...).
 * As for party makeup, I very rarely take elementalists. I'm happy with Aegis over Ward of Melee most of the time (though both is nice too), and ele damage is primarily only good at spreading AoE damage, whereas I find it important in HM to take out 1-2 particular foes in each mob, and the rest becomes cleanup.  I disagree about tanking: having Talon or Melonhead (VoS <3) psuedo-tank tends to hold off a couple melee foes at least a few seconds, and that's nearly essential with some HM mobs (e.g., Mandragor Terrors with Headbutt, or Jade Knights who can Triple Chop casters into smithereens unless you can blind ALL of them, tank them, or keep Shelter up).  Similarly, minions can hold off melee foes and nicely distract other foes into attacking minions rather than your group.  (For a minion master build, I like running something like a jagged bomber, with Jagged Bones, Death Nova, and Bone Minions, usually with Bone Fiends for extra damage or Vamp Horrors to help the MM's health a bit, though Signet of Lost Souls is used extraordinarily well by heroes.  I also have my MM run Flesh of my Flesh, for a quick res, and SoLS or Taste of Pain will restore his health very quickly to keep him from being a target.  This build is quite amazing for HM, since it keeps damage off the group, maintains some fairly strong pressure on foes, needs very little handholding with the hero AI, needs very little healing (SoLS/ToP + BotM >> Heal Area), and has a very nice fast res. However, this build is very sensitive to party wipe, especially at the very end of a vanquish, because you will have few foes to make minions out of and very likely a particularly nasty mob waiting for you.)
 * More important than the tanking issue is dealing with casters. I almost always bring a mesmer with a good collection of interrupts.  Power Block on a hero can usually keep one caster entirely out of the battle.  Cry of Frustration can top several casters at once, which gives you a huge advantage if it hits the right spot (e.g., three Roaring Ethers casting ESurge).  Humility can take out an elite skill (e.g., a WoH/ZB monk or SF/SH on a ruby djinn), and Ignorance can take out dastardly signets (e.g., res sig on Roaring Ethers: toss ignorance at one ether while the other is half dead).  With HM-increased casting speeds (roaring ethers can activate res sig in a mere 0.6s, and they aren't even bosses!), guilt and mistrust are powerful (worth running MoR with Guilt/Mistrust/Pspike/Pdrain), and backfire can be nice for spell-spammers, but I rarely find room for it (though definitely worth taking with MoR).  Other than in GWEN, I sometimes take Gwen with me so that I can have Norgu running PB, holding the attention of at least one caster, and Gwen running Ineptitude and other fun ill (sick?) skills primarily to deal with non-casters (espeicially barragers!).
 * Lastly (I hope), I've heard of some other interesting combinations. One is the triple nec squad: a jagged bomber MM build like I use, an SS build customized to the foes you'll be facing (e.g., defile flesh around obnoxious healers, defile defenses around obnoxious blockers, and barbs and mark of pain are always good fun with bone fiends if you have room for them), and an N/Rt "healer" (a restoration build, relying on minion and foe deaths rather than spirit deaths: WoR, Spirit Light, Life, and Protective was Koala, naturally with SoLS and FomF, possibly with Resilient Weapon if the area is hexy).
 * I hope this all-too-long set of suggestions is helpful to someone. It might be nice to put together a set of suggestions for dealing with HM. (Not a collection of builds, of course, just ideas like "Try running a PB mes to deal with casters.")--Carmine 00:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * All good points and useful information. Thanks for putting it up (and the time into writing it) :). Personally I play an ele most in HM so I always have one, that said I find that outright damage builds aren't that good. I tend to use either an air build or more recently I've been favouring  earth 5 pulses of aoe blind is just great against melee enemies and earthquake brings some nice aoe knockdown for caster mobs. -Ezekiel 03:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * All good points, but one thing that I find helps (quite possibly the most) is inflicting weakness on melee enemies. My main is a N/Me and I always have Enfeebling Blood on me when I play in HM. I often find myself even Arcane Echoing it when I find that I can't weaken all the meleers in a group at once, or if I find the fight may drag on. By doing this, you can then focus fire on the casters, all while the meleers are doing bugger all damage. xD I'll try not to repeat on things I agree on, so just the things you left out: I agree fairly strongly when you talk about bringing a Mesmer, but if you know that a monk is really going to make things hard for you, don't just interupt, bring along Arcane Languor. Vekk is one of my favourite heroes, i've found that equipping him with a burning/Searing Flames build will annihilate just about any party (Yeah, yeah, SF is overused, but for good reason). That's about all i've got to add, you did a good job of the rest. =D [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  03:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Does Arcane Languor actually do much in PvE? It always seemed that AI foes had egregious amounts of energy (100-200, even on non-eles), not to mention e-regen...  I can't find any experimental data on AI foe energy or e-regen, but there must be tons out there, at *least* since the whole Famine 55 Titty farming fad a few months ago (or has it been nearly a year? ouch).--Carmine 05:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I would think so. I used it a little while ago while doing some mission, seemed to shutdown the boss fairly well. Might just have been luck that time through though, not sure. I might have to look into that. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  06:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Enfeebling blood is definitely win; I knew there was something essential I left out of my necromancer suggestions! Thanks! SF is unfortunately still pretty damn good against many foes (try the undead, plants, and swampy-watery-skaly foes outside ToA...pwnt to a crisp), but it's an order of magnitude stronger if you can pull together 3-5 of them with another hyoomin, especially with ToF, and allows one or two to cast MS/meteor where needed while the others keep up the SF pressure.  Also: SF builds can deal with melee foes a bit better if you use Steam with Epidemic, and caster clumps if you use Malestorm and Power Drain.--Carmine 06:07, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Even just a pure Air build will do a fairly good job of keeping a group of meleers blinded for the most part of a fight. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  06:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Spiteful Spirit --Blue.rellik 03:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh of course, forgot that I run an Spoil Victor/Pain Inverter/Insidious Parasite build. In HM, everything has way too much health, so SV rips just about everything into fourteen pieces, then some more. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk  03:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Spiteful Spirit --Blue.rellik 03:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're an Ele, you could go E/A AP-MS nuker and run either sabway or a minion bomber+paragon party supporter+WoH prot hybrid (using this set-up, I've almost got Leg. Vanq and recently got Leg. Guardian). Take another hench monk and bring dps into the team - that should be more than enough. To make things easier, try pairing up with another human because 2 humans and 6 heroes is more than enough for HM.--Call Me Rexy 07:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

revert (1RV...)
Someone please revert the comma removal made by Himm Taeguk. This comma is necessary for consistency throughout the wiki, whether you agree with it or not (see also the "American English" issue). ANet is very loyal to the serial comma, and thus we also must be in articles.--Carmine 11:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done this. Thought you had done this when you mentioned it on my talk page. Obviously Not. :D. Himm Taeguk 16:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

60 DP kick, little harsh?
I just got to 60%Dp and our party got wiped, and we got booted from the area. i couldn't believe it! that's totally unfair.i worked so hard got some cool items and some tomes and could have gotten more but then i was booted, often times i could use death to travel through out an area and wear down groups that were killing us. anyone else hate this?
 * Don't die as much Blue.rellik 03:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why it's called hard mode, rather than requires-slightly-more-persistence mode. Thoughtful [[Image:Thoughtful Sig.png|19px]] 04:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why you have Powerstone of Courage. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

if i wasn't persistent then why would i constantly try to wear down the enemies with the altar method.
 * I have no idea what you just said Blue.rellik 03:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Mr anon you misread/misinterpreted Thoughtful's message --Shadowcrest  03:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Methinks u need to have more than just 'persistance', another approach may be necessary, perhaps pulling and strategy (:SHOCK:) might help? TwilightRhapsody 04:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think its harsh at all... If you got 60%dp you will not be able to vanquish the area enyway, and you should alwais bring candy canes. -{[ PUL ]}- 11:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Lockpicks
lol I just had a lockpick drop in NM, weird isnt it?!
 * Yeah, I mean, they drop in Eotn normal, but I always forget and check if we're accidentally on HM whenever one drops. -Ezekiel  [Talk]  23:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't lockpicks only drop in EotN NM?(obviously drops everywhere in HM) Becuase if it does then I do not find that weird since naturally, that area contains nothing BUT locked chests. It only makes sense to drop lockpicks, doesn't it? If not then... yeah that's pretty weird.--Call Me Rexy 07:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh it makes perfect sense, but I've been vanquishing and doing missions for guardian so it threw me when a lockpick dropped while I was quickly mopping up a NM quest. Ezekiel  [Talk]  07:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I've had 4 lockpicks drop in a couple of hours in EotN NM, and it wasn't even a special map. It was the first time I ever had lockpicks drop (hadn't finished any campaign at that time). The Masquerader 20:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Why is this in the "Research Needed"?
Just wondering. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 03:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * idk, maybe has to do with Vanquisher --Gimmethegepgun 03:40, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It was added by User:Gordon Ecker when he [ made notes about the changes to henchmen's skill bars in HM]. I believe we have complete HM skill bars for all henchmen now, so we don't need that category anymore.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:56, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

....what the FUCK!
Okay, so I wanted to farm Bezzr Wingstorm. In normal mode the following never happened, but in hard mode it happened TWICE in succession:
 * The boss aggroed and ran to me and killed me FROM WELL OUTSIDE THE AGGRO RADIUS! I kept at least a nearby range between my aggro bubble and his red dot, and he just charged me outta nowhere and killed me.


 * Did you fight a monster that may have strayed from his group? Oh, and please sign. King Neoterikos 04:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, most mantis bosses in Echovald have a group of hidden allies around that will popup when you get near them. If you get near enough, you'll trigger them, but they'll take a couple seconds to actually appear, during which time the boss is already aggroed and possibly attacking your party.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Ranger Pests
Ranger pets are still lv5 in HM, actually. Just the Elder Crocodiles and stuff like that are lv15; they're aggressive by standard, and thus out of the ordinary. --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  14:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Enabling HM
On the Article page it says "...A player must complete a campaign on normal mode ..." and "...To access hard mode, a player must first complete the final mission of a campaign normally..." So, on my new account I created a new character starting at the Factions Campaign, I reached Kaineg Center, I traveled to Tyria, I run that character to Iron Mines, got infused, did all the rest of the missions and ... I finished the last mission of Prophecies, BUT, HM is still not enabled. What did I miss ? Thanks. Ne33us 18:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I just saw what I READ the wrong way. I enabled HM on Prophecies ONLY, not HM for all campaings as I wished :( . Should I delete this part of the Discussion ? Ne33us 18:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, discussions aren't deleted (or very rarely). So if someone misreads again, he'll see this and might realise that.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 19:00, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Green Drop Rates
Does farming a boss in HM affect the drop rate for it's green? -76.227.169.17 19:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that's a no... but can somebody else who is positive confirm for him? 98.27.167.100 19:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Under normal circumstances, a boss gets three drops in easy mode and four in hard mode. More drops means a greater chance for any particular possible drop.  Quizzical 20:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Health Degen
Say you bunch up all the monsters and inflict massive health degen to all of them without using damage. Will they still flee to recover health if they go below 50% health? Avatar Kuzon 21:35, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, damage only, not health degen, I tested with bloody magic before and life stealing doesn't bother them, but damage makes them leg it --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 22:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually....they do. I just tried it with my perma sin. I used SF and gathered up all the Aatxe's and nightmares at the first part of the UW in HM. I had 2 necros with me, one with lingering curse and suffering. The other one had life transfer. They all degen'd fine but when they got lower than 50%, a couple of the aatxe's broke off and stood there watching with only 3 attacking me. So no, health degen still makes them run. *sigh*. Avatar Kuzon 22:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure HM monsters always do that, no matter if you're using degen or whatever. Only up to three monsters will attack in melee at any given time (on the same target). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:09, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, there was this raptor farming build with degen I used once, and all the raptors scrabled too there.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 05:09, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that only melee mobs do the scatter thing. You can still group up a bunch of ranged attackers (such as Mindblade Spectre). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops... lulz, I knew when I was trying that out that I'd forgotten something >< *sigh*
 * Thanx Entropy --> Suicidal Tendencie [[Image:Suicidal_Tendencie_Sig.jpg]] 12:18, 11 April 2009 (UTC) I fail

Attributes
A guildie and I were vanquishing when we started wondering if enemies have 20 in all attributes, even those from other classes. The answer to our question came a few minutes later, when a corsair used Simple Thievery and stole Animate Bone Fiend from me... then proceeded to raise a level 1 minion! I've edited the article. --Macros 21:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Energy Buff
I was using spirit siphon in arbostone and found that when I stole energy from enemy spirits in HM, they would lose 41 energy as opposed to 31 (which is how muc hall spirits should have). Sine I know spirits are affected by the HM buff (offensive spirits attacks faster), this makes me conclude that all HM creatures probably get +10 energy. --- <font color="Blue"> Ressmonkey  (talk) 13:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * smart 98.27.167.100 19:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

PvP HM
Here's an interesting little bug: if you have HM active when entering Great Temple of Balthazar from any of the main continents, you get the usual "player does not meet the requirements for Hardmode" message. I wonder how you activate PvP HM O.0... 69.249.223.63 05:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * By maxing hero rank :P Srsly, I guess you can't activate it. [[Image:EM Signature.jpg]] ***EAGLEMUT***   T  A  L K 07:10, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think when hard mode was first introduced, the NPCs in Fort Aspenwood and AB and the like did have their levels increased if one person had entered in hard mode :P It still didn't make them any more of a threat. --Macros 18:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Returned to outpost
I was hunting Inquisitor Bauer in Scoundrel's Rise and accidentally over-aggroed and wiped. I went back and was trying to pull his group a bit and had some minions that aggroed another group again and my H/H group couldn't get away. We were transported back to Gates of Kryta. I thought maybe I was imagining things so I went back and purposefully wiped twice and observed the same thing. With 30% DP I was returned to the outpost. Curious if this is a new Hard Mode thing, or unique to areas when the War in Kryta content is active? Shadowlance 18:53, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had the same problem. I guess this is unique to Gates of Kryta rez shrine, at least I do not know of any other that would work this way. [[Image:EM Signature.jpg]] ***EAGLEMUT***   T  A  L K 15:03, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

update 06/01/12
I heard some stuff in alliance chat that the HM mobs above lvl 20 have been tweaked. Their armour level is reduced by 3 per level above 20, but they get more health. Not sure on the source, but I'll ask around some more. --<font color="Green">El_Nazgir 12:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's in the update notes - no numbers specified, just says "more health / less armor". I guess someone needs to copy those over here...  &mdash;Dr Ishmael Diablo_the_chicken.gif 13:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)