User talk:Gemigemi

I need help with my MM hero builds! Any comments and ideas are appreciated.  

"Unused" pictures
I thought I should let you know that some images are shown as unlinked, when in fact they are being referenced from the body of an article. Specifically, I'm referring to the images of chaos axes dyed black and white (labeled translucent and pure white, respectively, though I suspect this is more widespread than these two images alone. I'm bringing this up to you because I noticed that you deleted them, and I wasn't sure if there was a particular admin responsible for these kinds of things. In the mean time, I've uploaded these two images again, let me know if this is a problem. Thanks! -- Imbril Shadowfire  17:26, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * PS. I did some testing in the sandbox, and I'm thinking the most logical explanation is that images referenced using the  Image:Chaos_Axe_Black.JPG  syntax don't get included in the "What links here" section in the image's page. Apologies if this is a known issue, but I figured I should bring it up... --[[Image:SmallMapleLeaf.jpg|19px|User:ImbrilShadowfire]] Imbril Shadowfire  17:32, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm aware of the 'what links here' problem with images, so I've been pretty carefull when deleting unused images. The safest thing would probably be to make a sub page somewhere, probably your user name space, where you use those images so that they don't show up in the list and I don't delete them on my next unused images purge crusade. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:13, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Builds Wipe
I posted a response to the builds wipe in a section that you commented on previously where you mentioned it was a good idea. Unfortunately a lot of other sections were made afterwards and it could easily be looked over accidently. Basically it was an alternative to the wipe by simply moving the builds to a new namespace and starting the new policy in the old (now cleaned) namespace. This would keep all parties satisfied. If it is said that it would be a waste of space, I would argue that the hundreds of users making backup userspace copies of the builds would total up to much more than that. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure at least one admin saw it and could spread the idea. GuildWiki_talk:Builds_wipe — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 17:33, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks, I had totally missed that one. I'm opposed to the idea though.
 * We've allready archived the builds multiple times on different users name spaces.
 * Having 2 build name spaces is definitely a bad idea, espcecially if one of them is staying as a copy the current build section. The idea was to get a fresh start, not to multiply the problems. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:43, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmm, I fail to see the logic. I understand the fresh start and that is exactly what you will get by clearing the old builds namespace.  Even if a copy of all the builds in a new namespace exists, it can easily be ignored by those who wish to only view/moderate the new policy guided builds.  Also, even if the builds are backed up to userspaces already, the general public will never find them and prove worthless to all but that user. For instance I have no idea where to find a single one of these backups unless I do them myself.  Heck, even if I did know, I wouldn't have any way to sort through them.  If it is ok to keep builds because they seem useful to people, why not have them collectively stored instead of using more space for each person to try to make their own backups.  Once people see the builds are remaining but just under a new namespace (UserBuilds perhaps) then they will likely delete their own backups.  Not trying to whine at all, but more offer a constructive compromise which I don't see how anyone could complain about.  Both sides win and get the positives they are looking for. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 17:58, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm not saying that your whining, your feedback is reasonable. :)
 * The reason for not making an organised backup like a new name space is to avoid moving the old problems to a new place. We want to completely get rid of the old system and its flaws so that users can easily change to anything new that is agreed on. It does cause a small downtime, but as the NOB is doing pretty fine atm, I don't think the downtime will be big. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 18:01, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * See I don't like the replacement with the NOB idea because it takes out creativity and promotes cookie-cutter builds. Either way, it is out of my hands.  Can I make a proposal then... With the difficulty of copying over builds to my namespace due to having to copy the history separately, would it be possible to move the entire namespace over to my userspace?  I propose that instead of wipe.  It would still then be only in userspace but will be a fullbackup that can be sorted through by those who so desire.  Odd request I know... but I figure it is worth a try and should be as simply done with a script as it would be to delete the pages. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 19:09, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's not possible as far as I know. Note that the NOB policy might get an addition that allow original builds, as long as they are categorised differently. I'll write my proposal later on today and we will see what people think of it. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 03:41, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Well bring up doing a mass move to my userspace too. It is a feature already programmed into Wiki to move a page, we just need to set it to do it in batch.  Or even get Barek to write a bot.  I just figure if we are allowed to back things up and put them in userspace, we might as well have them together.  If a bot isn't possible, then can you discuss with the admins and grant me permission to manually move them to my userspace myself instead of copy/paste.  I would need some time to move them though so it would be before the wipe date of course. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 15:35, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * As far as I understood correctly, they've been allready moved to one or two user name spaces. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 15:39, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I understand that, but without anyone telling us where that is... it is worthless to the public. Link? — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 00:30, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Hopefully I wasn't the one who upset you yesterday with rude comments, if I did, I apologize. The main thing I am looking for now is the location of all the backups which you are referring too.  Also, I am going to go ahead and do some custom build files in my userspace but am curious if we can do categories inside a userspace?  I don't want to conflict with the name wiki and could use some direction on that course of action. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 14:53, 8 April 2007 (CDT)


 * No one specifically upset me, it's just all this together. I'm fine now. :)
 * I've been told that no one actually did a complete backup, although I thought so. Each build that has been backed up should have a template placed on them like on Build:R/N Touch Ranger which shows who backed it up and where it canbe found.
 * You may add categories for user name space articles, but they should definitely not collide with anything in the main name space. Are you looking for something that only your pages would use or something that multiple users would use? If it is for your own personal use only, I would not encourage making categories. However, if they are meant for multiple users, feel free to mke categories. The safest way is probably to name categories something like Category:User builds. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 15:54, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Unfortunately I don't feel like I have enough experience with wiki to mess around with categories at this time. I would hope others could use the index setup I am working on to look around for skills and ideas... but we will see how far I get into this project first. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 16:43, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Copying History?
Would Build:W/Mo Regeneration IDS Farmer (Archive) work? Other than that, I guess there's copying HTML. ~ Pae 22:00, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Is that the full history of the original build? The way to copy the history is to use the 'move' button to move the original build to your user name space, which copies the history too, then copy the build back to the original place. Note that most if not all builds have been backed up allready. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 03:41, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Um, may I know how I should go about copying the build back to its original location once I've moved it to my username space? I would like to save a couple of builds that I've quite enjoyed, and I think the initial moving bit seems simple enough, but I don't seem to see any options for copying it back. Just wanna be sure of what I should do before I move anything around, lest I screw some pages up in the process. Thanks. Sleeper 19:00, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Click edit, then copy the whole text, go to the original location, then click edit, paste the content there and save. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:05, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the instructions. :) I tried that out for the Build:N/Me_SS_Nuker build, and I managed to archive it under my username space User:Sleeper/Builds/N_Me_SS_Nuker, and I did that for the talk page as well, before copying everything back to the original location. However I realised the history of the original build now lacks everything save my edits to it. Um, did I mess it up somehow? Cause now anyone else who wants to archive that build won't be able to get the history off there. Sincere apologies if I messed anything up. Sleeper 16:48, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Damn, I thought it would save the history there as well. My mistake then. I'll delete the build page so you can move it back, ok? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:11, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh ok, sure thing. So what do I have to do now? Just move the one I archived back to the original page? Thanks for the help, by the way. :) Sleeper 07:35, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I did it for you. I just had to delete the build article, then move the original from your name space back to the old place and then I deleted the redirects left to your user name space. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:42, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Gem, this method clearly isn't going to be working right. If every user who wants to backup their favorite builds requires admins to finish the process... it isn't going to happen.  Why can't we simply do a full move and a complete backup to a location everyone can access and knows of its existance? — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 15:29, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If you had read the thing with a clear mind you would have noticed that it didn't work at all, I could only revert the stuff, but the history can only be reserved at one place. You need to ask someone else about this though and suggest the mass backup to someone else. I'm not capable of doing it and I'm not willing to discuss this anymore after the rude comments yesterday. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 15:46, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Quoting Tanaric from the Build Wipe page: "Use the "history" tab on the build article in question, note the contributors to the build, and give 'em credit on your copied version." Basically just add a "Credits" section at the bottom of each build with the names of the contributors to the build, and that should be enough. No need to bother with moving the entire article around. --Dirigible 16:05, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Fire Blaster
Why did u clear the fireblaster talk???Stevo101 19:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Woops, sorry. I was going to delete a talk page of a moved build, but the talk page acted as a redirect and I accidentally deleted teh real talk page. Fixed it now. Sorry and thanks for throwing me a note. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 20:01, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Eh, NP just wondering what you where doing.Stevo101 20:02, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Wings That Heal
Hello Gem,

You have blocked Wings That Heal for some weird reasons. He hasn't insulted anyone, he only said to Solus something like this: "People like you, who give Australia a bad name." This is no personal attack, nor insulting. Solus was exaggerating and did fully understand that it was a joke. He has been blocked for 2 hours, because he wrote something on Solus' talk page and he removed it. Is there a policy for these actions? If not that was a dumb action. Then there was a bit flaming on his talk page blablabla, and then he said nerd to you, you obviously can't deny the facts and agreed with him, in Wings' next comment he says you are a fool, this is not a personal attack etc. So your reasons are not good enough for a 3 days block, please unblock him. Else I'll ask other sysops.

&mdash;Sig mA   06:38, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * You missed the point that why he was banned. I warned him to use any insulting words at all, and he immediately used the word fool (which I had specifically asked him not to use), after which I again said something after which he called me nerd. That's two repeated violations of an admin warning, intentionally. I am not going to change my mind in this case, so I don't even bother inviting him to talk to me in game this time. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:59, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A nerd is no insult or whatever, it is the reality. If you can't handle the facts go do something about it. I can understand the 'fool' thingy, but come on, he is only 16 years old (lol look at me, I'm still 15) Maybe he had an off-day, maybe he did not meant what he said, but now we won't know because YOU BLOCKED HIM FOR STUPID REASONS. &mdash;[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 07:04, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * He has really only had off-days in the wiki then. An off-day is not an explanation for bad behavior. Age is also no reason to behave how he does, there are more mature kids who are a lot younger than him. Maby I'm a nerd in one or the other meaning of the word, but that doesn't make it allowed to deliberately insult others or act against an admins worning. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:07, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Is may not violate any policy, but if your going round calling people fools, editing userpages in a negative fashion then opening insulting an Admin, your not putting yourself in a good sitution. He needs to keep his opinions, and thoughts of other users to himself, and not get into silly arguements which lead to a ban. The fact is, even though he did not insult me or Gem according to the text, he was warned by Gem but he countined on with the bitterness regardless. I didn't even know why he felt that he had to edit my userpage, but he did and look what it led to. Solus  [[Image:SOJsig.jpg|19px]] 07:09, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Maybe if you didn't complain that much, he hadn't got banned for some reasons, however, you made a fuss out of it just to get him blocked. Well maybe you didn't had the intention to get him blocked, you would. I'm not sure if you can stand criticize, but he only said that you give Austrailains a bad name, wich is in my eyes correctly. He edited your userpage, so what? I mean it is not the end of the world, just warn him and do not call directly for an admin, and if you want to call an admin please call the right one. Gem in inexperienced in these things, let others with more experience do it. I think Gem is abusing his powers and is desperate to block/delete/other things an admin can do and we can't and show off his powers. I'm not sure why I am writing this, but whatever, now I cleared my thoughts of this and the whole block thing. &mdash;Sig mA   07:18, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * First off, this is the second time he's edited my userpage. He hounds people over the "sign my userpage" crap and he has called me a fool many times before. Gem acted as any Sysop would, Wing's acted out of line, and he got banned. Even after a simple two hour banned, he was bitter. He was warned by an Admin earier, and again by Gem, which he ignored. I hope he saw the errors in his ways before he comes back, hopefully not bitter and more postive towards other users. Solus  [[Image:SOJsig.jpg|19px]] 07:28, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure what the problem of adding a userbox to a userpage is.. What was wrong with the userbox then? And besides he removes it, so no hard feelings. &mdash;[[User:Sigm@|Sig mA

]] 07:31, 5 April 2007 (CDT) Well, this doesn't make any sense at all, I think the case is closed here, Gem doesn;t want to unblock him... That'll be a long 3 days :P &mdash;Sig mA   07:36, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's vandalism. Plain and simple. Pretending otherwise would be pointless. He's done it in the past, and got banned for it. He continued it. When people questioned him, he didn't react innocently; it wasn't a simple "my bad, I meant to use your talk page;" he defended his acts of vandalism. Gares banned him for actions like that. Gem followed up the ban with a warning. He continued to ignore the warning, and got a *very light* ban from Tanaric. Gem followed that up with a warning as well. After Wings ignored that warning, Gem decided it had gone too far, and applied a 3-day ban. Nothing out of the ordinary. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 07:38, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Well, he is a friend of mine and I did a good word for him, but no... &mdash;Sig mA   07:40, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Sigma, you may seem to think you are right on this matter, but as Auron pointed out Wing's pushed the limits and brought it on himself. Solus  [[Image:SOJsig.jpg|19px]] 07:50, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This community relies on rules that are normally rather strict in real life. However, this is not real life and these rules are here to keep not only everything in check, but everyone in check as well. Let him say what he wants off-wiki, but on wiki, everyone must abide by the rules set in place. I'm not going to question Gem's decision, because he was correct, plain and simple. Gem is also correct in that age is no excuse for immature behavior. If a user can't act mature and follow the rules of a site, any site, then they should not be on that site or risk the consequences for breaking those rules. Having a bad day is also not a valid excuse. If you are angry for something that happened to you in real life, don't go taking it out on strangers on some site thinking you can get away with it.
 * Defending a friend is something I believe strongly in, but defending is a last resort in this kind of situation. Instead of letting your friend continue and then defending his actions after the fact, you should have tried to persuade him that what he is doing was wrong and helped to end this before it resorted to a block. &mdash; Gares 08:29, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I was almost going to ignore the rest of the discussion, but the "Gem in inexperienced in these things, let others with more experience do it. I think Gem is abusing his powers and is desperate to block/delete/other things an admin can do and we can't and show off his powers." comment needs a reply. I admit that I am one of the newer sysops and therefor I haven't had the possibility (or the need, which ever word you like to use) to use the sysop tools as much as the older sysops. However, that doesn't mean that I'm incompetent in using the tools and I definitely don't have any need to 'show off'. Deleting, banning, etc doesn't make me look great in anyones eyes imho, it is just a way to do my best to help the wiki. If I would 'show off my powers' without a reason, my sysop powers would soon be removed by Tanaric or LordBiro.


 * A small note about the ban itself: The 3 day ban was a lot less than he probably should have gotten for deliberately violating against an admins warning multiple times, especially as he has been banned for 2 weeks before for similiar reasons. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:36, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * If I may toss in my EUR 0.02 at this point: If I (who by now probably can be considered one of the senior admins) had been aware of this whole mess and gotten there before Gem, the ban would've probably been closer to 3 months than 3 days. And the reason given would've been something like "sheer obnoxiousness". Yes, I can ban a user fo that. No, I don't need a policy to back me up with that (Actually, I have a policy backing me up there. Quoting GW:ADMIN: Once promoted, an administrator is fully autonomous: he may do as his powers allow, as he sees fit.). So you can see, Wings can be glad that he got at someone as "inexperienced" and "power abusing" as Gem. :p --84-175 (talk) 09:14, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Well I think EUR 0.02 is worth more than AUD $0.02 at the moment but I'll throw mine in anyway. If you keep pushing the limits of what people will tolerate you're going to get pulled up pretty quickly. In this case it's strike 3 so as 84-175 says, 3 days means Wings got off lightly. --Xasxas256 09:24, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

For those interested, see my Guild Wars Wiki talk page. -- (gem / talk) 09:43, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Huh, are you kidding Sigma, he got off lightly IMO &mdash; Skuld 09:51, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Sub-heading for fun talk
By the time the arguing has finished the 3 days are gonna be up anyway, this game and everything related to it were created to create an enjoyable gaming experience. I don't see why everyone has to argue over something related to a game they are meant to be having fun in. If your not having fun why are you trying to ruin other peoples experiences (no pointing fingers). Just move along and enjoy the game, the wiki and everything related to it. --Atroso 08:40, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Exactly. (Btw, I am enjoying GW, the wiki and life in general even while discussing this. I have multiple tabs open, multiple programs open, Mövenpick chocolate ice cream on the table, and the sun is shining outside. Life is just perfect. Discussing this at the same time can't ruin my day. :) ) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:45, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Don't forget the music playing, and thanks for the welcome much appreciated, i mainly browse the wiki and making a couple of edits here and there...btw, was just looking at the touch ranger article, gotta change one of the notes reference from he to an androgenic describer --Atroso 08:56, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah, I totally forgot music. ;) I'm listening to a cd of disney music. A little hint: Indent your messages with one or more colons to show who you are replying to. (See how I modified your post) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:04, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The sun? *checks wikipedia* Oh, that big glob of thing that rises up when I go to sleep...  -PanSola 09:20, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You can't even imagine the outburst of laugh after reading that! :DDDDDDDD --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:35, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * *Ping* Sigm@ it's time for your monthly day in the sun!! &mdash;[[User:Sigm@|<font color=#2a7510>Sig <font color=#d8be01>mA

]] 12:01, 5 April 2007 (CDT)


 * link. 'Nuff said. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 12:49, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Build Archiving
I had archived a couple builds I found useful in subpages of my userspace, so I could refer to them after the impending builds wipe, but when I went on to archive some more, the ones I had already archived were red linked (deleted, I think). The person who deleted them left no note whatsoever, so, if you can find out why this occurred, could you please drop by my talk page? There's a link to the subpage I posted builds on on my User page. Thanks for your time! --- 18:00, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

A little help
I'm trying to make it so that on my user page the "Cheese has new messages please answer for him]] box will make the "please answer for him" go to my talk page and edit it...but all I can get is to go to the talk of whoever's clicking on the link's talk page&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 18:41, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Try changing the link from that Special:mytalk thing or whatever to http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=User_talk:Cheese_Slaya&action=edit. :D ---[[Image:Sora267signature.jpg]] 18:51, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So, it would be something like this:

Cheese Slaya has new messages. |(Answer for him).


 * =) ---[[Image:Sora267signature.jpg]] 18:55, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

NOB
Hey Gem, the talk page at NOB is getting huge. I want to archive some of it, but I'm a little unsure of how to go about it. Should I just break it up into chunks and archive them, or should I archive the sections that aren't seeing a lot of discussionas of late? Thnx. - Krowman (talk • contribs)  16:29, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I can do it now so you don't need to. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:37, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:43, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks m8. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 16:44, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Vandalism
Sorry to bother u gem but i just wanted to let u know that ppl are flaming at me on my talk page and im not sure where to report that.Hoax 20:24, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Who is flaming you? I didn't see anything inappropriate on your talk page. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 22:09, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

The person deleted it, its in my history, it was by AID Hoax 08:37, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Ok
I wanted to say Ok and Thanks. I'm new to Guildwiki posting.User:Velox Lamia
 * No prob. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:34, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the signature info too. Velox Lamia 11:29, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Ban?
Some anon user keeps editing the pages for titles. Ban please. The one you reverted I think. <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 16:29, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Banned bt Barek while I was playing in GWWiki. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:47, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Look at what this guy did to my icy shackles flagger... IP = 76.102.20.61 . Ban pls??&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]]  Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 21:21, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not banning anyone if they only have a single contribution. No point. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 21:23, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Another case for review. -Auron  21:44, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Huh? Might wanan link to the vandalized page history, nto contributions...&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 13:28, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * He was vandalizing someone's userpage. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   13:31, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

All I can see is adding a californiaguy image... but I only looked at 1 contribution.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 13:35, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Pesticile (User)
I think he deserves a nice, long ban for agressive posts in Build:A/N Dark Balance. He was warned once not to call people's names, but he didn't listen. - (Abedeus) 16:39, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * His name is Pestilence and I don't think he should be banned...reasons said already.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 16:53, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not saying anything about abadeus here, but pesticile ought to get a ban imo, he broke several policies (GW:NPA, GW:AGF, GW:YAV, GW:AGF and insulted the sysops as a whole:
 * "You guys are ass holes"
 * "Don't be complete ass clowns... I know, I know, it will be hard. But I'm sure you can do it."
 * "As if I care what yo usay, honestly."
 * "I know the damn rules, and I still don't care..."
 * "What're you going to do?? Ban my IP? Boo-hoo..."
 * "it's wrong of them to say such idiotic things."
 * "There is no need for them to be ass holes about it."
 * "It seems to me that this site is run by a bunch of idiots who can't seem to run a friendly environment."
 * "Either some people learn how to give some intelligent, well-thought, relevent, polite opinions, or keep their dumb ass mouths shut..."
 * "Seeing as how most people here are far too damn lazy to read whole posts. -.- = / Jack asses."
 * "The above was spoken by a true, first-class idiot."
 * "Y'all are fucked up."
 * –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:20, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * People, learn to read the block log! (link on my user page) He has allready been banned for 3 days a long time ago. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 18:21, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * /slaps self. Don't exactly check if someone's blocked when someone else asks to ban him >.> –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 18:25, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * : ) The last few topics have been about banning people and on most cases someone has allready banned them and people still keep discussing. It's pretty funny. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 00:12, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Character Layouts
Would it be alright if I borrowed the source for the layout of your characters (the boxes/colours/basic template)? --Kale Ironfist 00:40, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You can do it if you credit me properly on your user page. However, I would suggest creating something of your own with the help of my source code and the source code of the people on my 'list of nice user pages' which can be found on my page. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:52, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm gonna steal...
Your Starwars userbox k? Solus   07:45, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It seems like you did make one allready. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:52, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Build templates
After all the builds are wiped, would it be possible to keep Template:Untested-build, Template:Tested-build, and Template:Unfavored-build, but remove the cats, for use on user pages? Otherwise I'm going to have to figure out how to make a template on my userspace and implement it. And that's scary. >.> --Armond Warblade (talk) 10:44, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm gonna make my own untested/unfavored/favored templates...when I'm done you cna borrow them.&mdash;[[Image:Cheese.jpg|50x19px]] Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 12:20, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't know if they will be left there. Ask Tanaric. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:52, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Either way, if they get wiped out, I'm sure it won't take long for some new ones to get posted up, probably with the "user build" tags already in place... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 15:33, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I already made mine:D Beat ya to it.&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 15:34, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Dood. Thanks. :D --Armond Warblade (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, I think I'm going to see if I can't rip some of my own - I kinda liked the old ones :P --Armond Warblade (talk) 16:41, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Et voila. --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:14, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

And on that note, I think I'll start fiddling around with category tags reminiscent of the old "this build has been designed for the following use" templates. Something a little more userspace-friendly though... maybe a little more specific as far as build categories or something of the sort. -- <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 23:32, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Use of show/hide
I found a few reference of past discussion regarding allowing show/hide javascript feature in userpage only, and not in regular articles. Can you point me to the specific location? I am currently violating that rule, and would like to read up on the prior arguments for and against it before I get caught and need to defend myself. -PanSola 04:33, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I can't really remember where it was discussed, but there were two occasions and on both occasions it was decided that they shouldn't be used. The talk pages were some random talk pages for articles where someone had tried to use them. I thought the other was Talk:Miniature, but I couldn't find it on the page or the archive. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:08, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, found it. It wasn't discussed there though, only mentioned. Talk:Miniature/Archive 1. I think that you might find something if you go through my contributions from January 1st to January 15th. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 07:10, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you quickly take a look at Mesmer perfect weapons, and see if the usage of show/hide in that particular situation is similar to the past cases when usage was rejected? -PanSola 07:25, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it was just generally decided not to use them. I see your point in hiding that stuff, but I also understand why some people don't like it to be used. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 10:02, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Just for the record - I absolutely positively despise the use of show/hide. I question why it was added to the site scripts rather than user specific in the first place.  Also, the page you linked to does not seem to work correctly in all browsers (I'm assuming so anyway - unless you intended to only make the weapon names viewable) - from here I only have access to IE6; but in it, the only thing shown in the lists are the weapon names, with no means to show the hidden stat info.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:55, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I spent more time getting the current skill/QR templates to render (mostly) the same in FF/Opera/IE than doing anything else. --Fyren 11:00, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Barek, the show/hide was for the legend only. I believe I may have a case in the same principle that TOC can be shown/hidden.  BTW, if anyone happens interested, I can develop a Javascript that disables the hiding of the TOC, whether for GuildWiki or for another MW site. -PanSola 16:17, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Doesn't work in lynx. :P  --Rainith 17:02, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Just curious, does TOC hiding work in lynx? (yes I know it's a text browser). -PanSola 18:37, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Honestly, I don't know. I haven't used lynx in years (12? I think).  I was just making a joke based on a conversation that I think you and I were both involved in a while back on the wiki.  :)  --Rainith 18:43, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It doesn't work, Pan, the TOC is always in expanded mode, the Show/Hide link doesn't even appear. --Dirigible 19:16, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So am I correct in interpreting your statement as "The legend behaves like the TOC in Lynx. Both are always visible, without an option to collapse(hide) them."?  And yeah Rainie, I remember that q-: -PanSola 22:08, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yup, that's right. --Dirigible 22:49, 12 April 2007 (CDT)


 * BTW, Gem, I'd rather manually fix all my old sigs than go through two weeks worth of your contributions d-: -PanSola 23:07, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Need some help with a userbox
Hello, I'm new to the wiki and trying to figure out how to make a userbox. There is a twist however, I need the userbox to have the info on the left side and the picture on the right. Any ideas? Enigma 14:57, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I can help you in more detail later, but you could probably figure it out by examining the source code of Template:Userbox. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 15:10, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Gave it my best shot but could not make the info/id proportion match the fact that ID should be the size of what info usually is and vice versa. Enigma 15:57, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Can you help?
Hello Gem, I would like to know if this would count as a Personal attack. This was posted on my Talk page, minutes before. "Do you do anything constructive on wiki, or just post this communist crap and make stupid discussions." 138.217.165.69 21:52, 12 April 2007 (CDT) (btw, you need to archive) <font color="Black">Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 21:57, 12 April 2007 (CDT) Thanks!
 * It's User:Solus, check this edit. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 22:44, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Worth

 * WTF? --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 18:25, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice one! :D Which one is it? The Ruby? ;] &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:36, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Ach, lol!!! I get it, nice one! --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 22:14, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Build talk:Mo/E SoD Grasping Monk
"Ignore him, he's a jerk. — Skuld 12:08, 15 April 2007 (CDT)" Skuld insulted me yet again, It's getting old. Solus  01:20, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * See User talk:Skuld. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:15, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Oh, so this was the "PA", not me being rude to vandals? :-/ Solus is being a jerk by posting rediculous shit and provoking people and raising their tempers. If posting a 15 energy, maintainable teleportation enchantment as a superior alternative to an energy management spell on a bar that sorely needs it isn't being a jerk, then I don't know what is. Prehaps, at the very least, our helpful young friend here needs a talking-to about disruption and provocation? &mdash; Skuld 17:43, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This is not the only thing. If it would have been, I wouldn't have posted on your talk. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 19:49, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

vandalism
Special:Contributions/66.229.215.86 gogogo &mdash; Skuld 17:38, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
 * He got more than he deserved, just because the freaking game killed my survivor and I need to restart. grrrrrr.... --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 17:40, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Template help
This could use a border of around 1-2 pixels. It used to be page width with HR above and below. I liked that look, but I want it as thin as it is now. Thanks in advance. --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:50, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

<div style="background: pink; margin: 3px 0px; margin: 0 25%; text-align: center; border: solid black 1px"> '''This build is currently UNDER CONSTRUCTION. This build should NOT be considered complete. Please discuss possible suggestions and additions on the talk page.'''

<div style="background: pink; margin: 3px 0px; margin: 0 25%; text-align: center; border: solid black 2px"> '''This build is currently UNDER CONSTRUCTION. This build should NOT be considered complete. Please discuss possible suggestions and additions on the talk page.'''

&mdash; Skuld 17:54, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * My template got pwnt. Thanks. (Border! Not margin! Though I think I tried that.) --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:49, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

User:Nog64/Skill Modifiers Quick Reference
Over the past few weeks, several editors and myself have been making this list. I wish to put it on the main space very soon (probably not as a Quick Ref, though), and I was wondering if there are any syntax/content issues to deal with before the move. Thanks in advance.--Nog64Talk 17:52, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Help Please!
Alright, here goes, I am really bad at WikiHTML, and your name popped up first in my mind to ask. So, here it is. If i am writing something like "User:Kurzspear/GenericPage(???)Displayedname", what would go into the (???) spot? I know it is the vertical line, but i can't seem to find it on my keyboard XD help me out if you can, i would appreciate it a lot. Thanks again! <font color="Red">Kurzspear 20:28, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The key with the \ and | is situated in different places depending on the keyboard manufacturer. The popular places are half of the Backspace key, half of the Enter key, or half of the right Shift key. It's sometimes marked as two vertical lines one above the other, and not a solid one. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 21:26, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

For me it's right above "Enter".&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 22:06, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

It's the "pipe" symbol. If it isn't near your enter/backspace, try control+alt+1. If you still can't find it, ALT+124 (on your numpad) is the way to go. Also: your sig is broken, it has another '' after, putting all following comments italic. :P –Ichigo724 22:12, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Funny how Gem doesn't have to respond d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 22:51, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm going in the same direction as Karlos. ;) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 03:04, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

I appreciate it guys, That REALLY helps. THANKS! --<font color="Red">Kurzspear 21:46, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Haha, one more thing. How do i upload an image? Like, one from the internet, i want to put into a userbox. How can i do such a thing? sorry for bothering Again <font color="Red">Kurzspear 22:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Stealing Gem's chance to respond. There's a useful little toolbar on the left side of the site. Below the search box is a link called "upload image". Click it. Click "browse", find the pic you want. Then, give it a name, and end it with the file extension (.JPG is recommended, though I've seen some .GIF, .PNG, and .BMP around, though usually for userspace and always less quality for the space it takes up). If you get a warning that the file is too big, consider cropping it - but if you've already done so, don't worry about it too much.


 * Always remember the file extension - it's the biggest mistake I made when trying to learn how to upload images, and in fact I thought the wiki was broken for a month because I always thought the server would read it from the file type I told it to upload. It's not as smart as it could be. >.> --Armond Warblade (talk) 02:26, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll add something to that. NAME the image PROPERLY! Follow these guidelines and do not name your character "The Dervish" but your character name. For uniformity, lower case file name extensions are recommended. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 03:43, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Zomg, allow me to quote myself: I appreciate it guys, That REALLY helps. THANKS! --<font color="Red">Kurzspear 15:33, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * This is definitely just like Karlos, getting the last word after the issue has been sloved. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 21:10, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You're just to popular, Gem ;] Too many people stalking your user page :o (You could make a mini-policy for your page - "Don't respond unless Gem says so!" ;] ) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 08:47, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well at least your talk page isn't a Skuld-style forum, that would be worse no!? Speaking of Skuld talk page forums, how are things? I haven't been playing or wiki-ing anywhere near as much as I'd like for a while now but I've *mostly* been filling up my time with enjoyable stuff so it's not so bad. --Xasxas256 22:58, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's not a bad thing that I don't need answer anything, Poki. I like it. ;P
 * Xas: Things are pretty good. Kalomeli is great <3, Uni is ok, I've been getting a lot better at ITG and all of the large updates to GW rock. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 01:29, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

Impeding Format Crisis
Heh, with the advent of Hard Mode, nearly every Monster in the game will either need (a) a separate page like Monster (Hard mode), or each Monster page needs a wholly new "In Hard Mode..." section with new skillsections, notes, tips...quite a formatting challenge! It'll keep the admin team busy, most probably you and Fyren especially. Good luck ;) (T/C) 22:59, 19 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's got nothing to do with the admins. You guys can come up with your own formatting. Start working on the style and formatting articles. &mdash;Tanaric 23:10, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * O rly? I thought Style and Formatting was like official policy...In either case it is still a headache. /chastised [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:20, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
 * soj, eviscerate, lingering curse, dear god. Maybe just 2 skillsets on the page? I think seperate pages with (hard mode) or (hard) added would be better though. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:05, 20 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Policy and formatting changes can be made without admins. I'm not going to be updating the wiki with any in-game information for some time, hard mode awaits. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 03:04, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Template:ElonaMissionProgression
Hey Gem, when I first made the Template:ElonianMissionProgression template, I didn't have the Realm of Torment mission icons. Another user then made one at Template:ElonaMissionProgression, which did include these, and appears to be quite popular and more people use it (you included). Now that a set of images for that template have been made, I think it would be nice to remove the Elonian template but replace it with the Elona one for the sake of naming consistency. I've simply changed the code on mine, but it leaves the wiki with the same template under two different names. What to do? &mdash; <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   13:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You could just edit all articles using the inorrect naming to use the correct one and then tag the incorrectly names one for deletion. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 16:12, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * This might take a while ;) &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   17:02, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Btw, we need hard mode ones. Want to do them? Basically just copy the templates and upload the correct icons and thats it. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 20:05, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Already done last night - Template:TyrianHardMissionProgression, etc. I have them on my userpage. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   22:00, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Rude
If you're going to delete content that a user has gone through the trouble of creating the least you could do is inform the user. as a normal user i should not have to track down the delete logs just to figure out what happened to content i created. since it doesn't appear to be your standard operating procedure if you ever feel the need to delete any article i have created i'd appreciate it if you'd let me know ahead of time or at the very least when it happens with a message on my user talk page. as i understood it that's what user talk pages are for... tetracycloide 21:24, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm really sorry, but when deleting a hundred pages and images at a time I wont be able to contact every single author. The deletion message tells the reason.
 * I've restored the page for now so you may move it to your user name space. I'll delete that page again after that.
 * Sorry for the trouble once more, but you must realise that I can't do everything, I'm just one man. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 22:10, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * i had no idea it was that difficult. the content has been copied, i assumed it was ok as a language category because i pulled the template from wikipedia and there are language categories for other constructed languages like esperanto.  admittedly though that cat is serious and this one clearly was just a joke.  tetracycloide [[Image:slick.gif|15px]] 23:28, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for understanding my situation. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:01, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Hard Mode Jessica
Just wondering... You Hero/Hench it solo, duo with Kalomeli, PUG or organize an expedition with friends an guildies? &mdash; Poki#3, 00:01, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Just like always, me + Kalomeli + heroes. We have made an excpetion a few times though, letting someone else in the party too (and we beat Shiro with a full human party. scary). So if you want to clear something or do a mission with us you can contact us and we just might like the idea. :) I'll have a list of allready vanquised areas up in my lists section later on. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 06:01, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

So you wanted to be called....
Stupid. You are Stupid, happy? Solus  06:31, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Lollollol. xD Thanks. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:13, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Do I want to know what was on that screen o.o --Armond Warblade (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2007 (CDT)

A little help with Preferences, don't know who else to ask.
Hi. I'm trying to make a custom signiature, but it wont let me in the preferences area of Guild Wiki. Since you're an admin, I thought it would be ok to ask for some help. If you could tell me how to do this, I'll gladly add the following to my userpage:

Thanks in advance. XD Alreajk 21:10, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you describe the problem in a bit more detail? If it's not letting you, is it showing error messages? &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] <font color=#000080>kyrasantae   21:27, 28 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I sincerely ask you not to use that box as I don't like people using the gem icon on their pages. To change your sig, put the code that you want to be your sig in the 'Nickname' field and check the 'Raw signature' link. If there is some sort of weird problem, please tell me more details. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 09:00, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Help, please
I've got some cool ideas of how to make my userpage awesome, however, I don't know how to make a show/hide thing (whatever it's called). Kaya credited you for helping out with that particular thing, so I figured you were the one to ask. Right now my userpage is an awful mess of randomness, so I'd really appreciate any help with improving it. (Please do so in my talk) - <font color="#000080">Snow White Tan  10:32, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for your help. Got another question (in my talk page) - <font color="#000080">Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 03:47, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks alot for your help. Time to get to work on the page :D - <font color="#000080">Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 08:17, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No problem at all. :) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 08:38, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

Build archiving
Seeing as the builds section wipe will be going off tomorrow, is it a problem if I archive one of my own builds by simply moving the page to my userspace (and removing category links and all that)? I really don't see a need to keep the original build page there, having it missing from the wiki the day before it gets wiped doesn't seem like a problem. And I'd like to keep the original history of the page intact, and moving it seems to be the best way to do so. The build's A/any Critical Fox, in case you were wondering... having an answer before tomorrow would be preferable, if at all possible. -- <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 11:48, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Be bold in editing &mdash; Skuld 12:15, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Imho go ahead. I would only be conserned if the build was one of the most popular ones in the game. I'll probably save a couple of builds to my user name space in the same manner too, but I've got the admin tools so I can undelete them after the wipe so that I can then move them. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:21, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Hehe, WP:BOLD is something I'll have to keep in mind more... I think I worry too much about being reckless, though.
 * Anyway, I didn't think there would be a problem, but I always like to check. I'll probably move the page over a little later. First off, I'm busy trying to figure out how to use a Show/Hide box on another wiki... I can't tell what I'm doing wrong, but I think I know what I'm doing. Should keep me busy for the rest of the day.
 * A quick question on that subject; I was trying to figure out how to make a Show/Hide box be hidden by default, but I couldn't get anything... what I stumbled upon was that having more then one Show/Hide box seemed to make a difference. Is there any other way to set this default? --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 12:33, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No clue. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 12:34, 30 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah well. Makes no difference to me anyway, at this point; I thought it might be good to check, and I copy+pasted your "useful links" coding over to my userpage on the other Wiki, just to see if it worked (figured pasting code that I knew worked would be the best way to check). A quick press of "Show Preview" proved that, apparently, they use an older version of MetaWiki, because it didn't work... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 12:38, 30 April 2007 (CDT)