User talk:NieA7/Build:A/any Critical Fox

History

 * (cur) (last) 05:40, 27 April 2007 76.21.2.109 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 05:31, 12 April 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Possible on a Hero)
 * (cur) (last) 04:50, 26 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Possible on a Hero)
 * (cur) (last) 14:15, 25 March 2007 Seb2net (Talk | contribs) (Possible on a Hero)
 * (cur) (last) 03:45, 23 March 2007 Armond (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 20:33, 16 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 09:18, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 06:57, 16 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 06:21, 16 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 05:05, 16 March 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:41, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:39, 16 March 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:21, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:17, 16 March 2007 SBR (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:15, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 04:06, 16 March 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 03:11, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 03:04, 16 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:57, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:54, 16 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:49, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:43, 16 March 2007 Wyvern Afini (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:37, 16 March 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 02:28, 16 March 2007 Wyvern Afini (Talk | contribs) (Variants, out of control?)
 * (cur) (last) 23:21, 13 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 22:15, 13 March 2007 Arthas (Talk | contribs) (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 05:18, 2 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?FIX THE 1ST VARENT)
 * (cur) (last) 04:17, 2 March 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (?FIX THE 1ST VARENT)
 * (cur) (last) 04:07, 2 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Shattering Assault Variant)
 * (cur) (last) 03:57, 2 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Shattering Assault Variant)
 * (cur) (last) 03:53, 2 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?FIX THE 1ST VARENT)
 * (cur) (last) 02:42, 2 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 02:42, 2 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk) (FOX THE 1ST VARENT)
 * (cur) (last) 02:32, 2 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 02:31, 2 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 02:27, 2 March 2007 Wyvern Afini (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 23:12, 1 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 23:10, 1 March 2007 24.47.250.185 (Talk)
 * (cur) (last) 22:45, 1 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Critical Hitter Variant)
 * (cur) (last) 22:26, 1 March 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (Critical Hitter Variant)
 * (cur) (last) 22:23, 25 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Works for farming, apparently.)
 * (cur) (last) 22:09, 25 February 2007 Ichigo724 (Talk | contribs) m (?Works for farming, apparently.)
 * (cur) (last) 22:01, 25 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (Works for farming, apparently.)
 * (cur) (last) 07:38, 23 February 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 12:42, 22 February 2007 Wings That Heal (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 00:57, 22 February 2007 Pestilence (Talk | contribs) (?Temporary Skill Changes)
 * (cur) (last) 21:38, 21 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) m (?Allegiane Battles?)
 * (cur) (last) 21:38, 21 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build (AB))
 * (cur) (last) 21:33, 21 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 22:54, 16 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Temporary Skill Changes)
 * (cur) (last) 22:20, 16 February 2007 Pestilence (Talk | contribs) (?Temporary Skill Changes)
 * (cur) (last) 03:26, 8 February 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Temporary Skill Changes)
 * (cur) (last) 00:11, 8 February 2007 RossMM (Talk | contribs) (?Temporary Skill Changes)
 * (cur) (last) 22:26, 25 January 2007 Babboelvis (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 00:32, 23 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 00:27, 23 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Block/evade merge-)
 * (cur) (last) 23:33, 22 January 2007 Doom Music (Talk | contribs) (Block/evade merge-)
 * (cur) (last) 21:47, 17 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Net Critical Chance)
 * (cur) (last) 12:15, 17 January 2007 Melton (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 23:01, 15 January 2007 Babboelvis (Talk | contribs) m (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 17:57, 15 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Rez)
 * (cur) (last) 16:58, 15 January 2007 X H K (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 05:58, 2 January 2007 Skyreal (Talk | contribs) (Critical Defenses)
 * (cur) (last) 04:32, 2 January 2007 Nyc Elite (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 02:47, 2 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 00:55, 2 January 2007 Kaos Klan (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 21:39, 1 January 2007 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 19:41, 1 January 2007 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 16:47, 1 January 2007 Spark (Talk | contribs) m (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 16:33, 1 January 2007 Manbeast15 (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 22:40, 31 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 19:27, 31 December 2006 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 19:27, 31 December 2006 Rapta (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 16:54, 31 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 16:53, 31 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m
 * (cur) (last) 11:14, 31 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Before you vote)
 * (cur) (last) 04:14, 31 December 2006 Defiant Elements (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 07:18, 29 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 03:53, 29 December 2006 130.58 (Talk | contribs) m (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 00:29, 29 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 10:38, 28 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 09:44, 28 December 2006 130.58 (Talk | contribs) m (Do you need Sharpen Daggers?)
 * (cur) (last) 09:35, 28 December 2006 Jyro X (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 09:31, 28 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 05:38, 28 December 2006 Midnight08 (Talk | contribs) m (?Rate-a-build)
 * (cur) (last) 10:38, 23 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 22:02, 22 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 07:20, 21 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Net Critical Chance)
 * (cur) (last) 21:53, 20 December 2006 Discount Bob (Talk | contribs) m (?Net Critical Chance)
 * (cur) (last) 20:28, 20 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs) (?Net Critical Chance)
 * (cur) (last) 13:33, 20 December 2006 Melton (Talk | contribs)
 * (cur) (last) 04:46, 20 December 2006 Jioruji Derako (Talk | contribs)

Before you vote
One thing I've come to notice with this build is how much better it does in PvE over PvP. It's still a usable build in PvP, but with the limited slots for utility skills, running down a kiting foe is much to hard. Midnight08 suggested it becoming a PvE only build... I'd like to get a bit more info here, but if the build just doesn't work out for PvP, I'll gladly change it to a PvE-only build. Let me know, and leave your opinions here on the talk page. Jioruji Derako 19:29, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Tried this out for a little while, I am going to hold off voting 'til I test a little more, but, I do agree with a move to just plain PvE. Defiant Elements 23:14, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * Alright then. I personally don't even use this build in PvP myself, as it's much easier to keep Critical Defenses up if you have a steady supply of targets. I'll switch it over to PvE-only now, I think ... I'm not quite sure how to do that though, so bear with me on any mistakes. Jioruji Derako 06:14, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * No. NOT a PvP build. PvE maybe, but NOT a PvP. Tell me if you want me to make it clearer, but this build =/= for PvP. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:27, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * And WTF you recommended Storm Djinn's Haste? We're all doomed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:27, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hehe... well, Storm Djinn's Haste DOES work in this build, even if it's not the best skill for the job. I normally don't like Ele skills, so if there's a better choice, feel free to edit the variants accordingly. Sins already have 4 pips of regen, so you're still gaining energy overall with this skill. Featherfoot Grace is a much better skill to use though, obviously. On that note, perhaps I should switch them around in the variants, so it doesn't seem like I'm suggesting SDH over Featherfoot... Jioruji Derako 17:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * I dunno, have you actually considered Dash or Dark Escape? No Assassin build should need other classes' running skills, especially when you already have points in Shadow Arts. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:41, 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, Dash is always my first choice for running with a sin. One thing you need to keep in mind here though is Way of the Assassin is also a stance though. I personally don't like having to chose between massive criticals and blinding speed (exagerated slightly for effect). Dervish is one of the only classes I've seen that has good speed boosts in enchantment form, and as enchantments, they also help to keep Way of the Assassin active. Jioruji Derako 16:39, 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * Mesmers also has an enchantment spell that increases running speed. It's called Illusion of Haste. The drawback is that you get crippled when the enchantment ends.
 * Yeah, but I much prefer skills like Flame Djinn's Haste and Burning Speed for running. That way you can be sure once you catch up to the target, you don't lose them again... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 19:21, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

Rate-a-build
Favoured:
 * 1) Works very well in PvE to get around defenses and do high damage. Manbeast15 10:38 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) Kaos Klan 19:55, 1 January 2007 (CST) Probably the best use of Way of the Assassin.
 * 3) Bypasses block/evade well, does good damage, maintains defense easily. Great build. --Nyc Elite 23:32, 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * 4) Damage is not crazy, but the build is solid. Well used by heroes.--Babboelvis 17:26, 25 January 2007 (CST)
 * 5) With Conjure Flame, Conjure Frost or Conjure Lightning and a dagger that has a weapon upgrade to match it still deals good damage when not using skills -- Wings That Heal 07:42, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * 6) Nice damage and a flexible build Wyvern 21:27, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * 7) Amazingly, it works well with Watchful Spirit and Vampiric daggers. (Ok, so I had a few energy problems, but that was mostly due to forgetting that I had swapped out radiant insignias at the time.) An unblockable chain works wonders in PvP - especially on rangers! --Armond Warblade (talk) 23:45, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
 * 8) i just held off an RA team and killed one of their two monks for a full 2 minutes with the derv variant. best moment in sin history right there--76.21.2.109 01:40, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

Unfavoured:
 * 1) (your vote here)

Allegiance Battles?
After extensive testing of this build in Allegiance Battles, I've decided to add this build to the AB section as well. Please, if you've got anything to contribute (doesn't work well comparitively to some other AB builds), please post so here. If enough people don't think this is a good build for AB (which I believe won't happen), then I'll remove it from the section. I personally use this build in AB all the time (using the A/D variant, but it works with the normal setup as well). I normally don't have trouble taking on other assassins, and once they realize that Crit. Defenses is doing sqat againt you, they normally flee. I've also been able to beat all three of the Warriors from the Elite Warrior shrine (all at once, and with zero teammate support). {Jioruji Derako} 16:38, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Disclamer
Just so you all know here, I did check through the other untested and stub builds out there. I realize there are a few other critical strikes builds, but I'm confident that my particular build here is different enough to warrent the new page. If you disagree, please, by all means, let me know. Also keep in mind, this is my first build submission here, so any formatting errors, feel free to point them out and/or fix them as you see fit. Jioruji Derako 23:46, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Net Critical Chance
Dagger mastery gives you 21%, while you get another 13% from Critical Strikes, another 6% from critical eye, and the huge 31% from Way of the Assassin. Considering you are under constant enchantment, that would mean you have around 71% chance of giving a critical hit. Should be enough to sustain critical defenses, even without Critical Strike. Still, i'm wary about the recharge times of the skillchain you have chosen, though eight seconds really isn't alot. ~ Melton 08:33, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, eight seconds isn't the shortest I can go, but in this case, the unblockable attacks seemed to be worth it. But anyway, the attack chain is only as fast as it's slowest skill... as far as dual attacks go, only Critical Strike (6 seconds) and Shattering Assault (4 seconds) are faster. And Shattering Assault takes up the Elite skill slot here. So having the Lead at Off-Head attacks at eight seconds too doesn't really make a difference, seeing as you'll be limited by whatever Dual attack you choose... Oh, but if you've got any other ideas for a skill chain, please, go right ahead and add it into the Variants section. Jioruji Derako 15:28, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * I've thought of Jagged Strike -> Wild Strike -> Death Blossom, followed by Jagged Strike -> Wild Strike -> Blades of Steel, like some other build used. Of course, you lose your ability to hit your enemy regardless of stances, but you do heaps more damage, and death blossom works well in PvE. Just avoid those pesky rangers with stances. ~ Melton 07:15, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Another that works is simply Golden Phoenix Strike -> Death Blossom, which gives you room for an extra skill. Works well in most situations (although in Nightfall especially, there seems to be an overload of Whirling Defense-spamming rangers). Jioruji Derako 16:47, 17 January 2007 (CST)

I've played with a build that's nearly identical to this one (maybe one skill off) and it IS effective. It's a decent spike and I love that it's unavoidable. The issue is that these attacks aren't really super high damage (although it's pretty good) and the 8 seconds is *just* long enough that there's plenty of time for them to heal, kite, etc. So with Moebius Strike thrown in it was ok, but it can be avoided and you lose the insane crit chance. This isn't really the best build for spiking a target into the ground, but it is effective at a fast mid-damage spike. ~ Discount Bob 16:53, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * One thing I've noticed myself is it's a great build for consistant damage, just not so much for big spikes. When it comes to a spike, I prefer a Seeping Wound build myself. But the main advandage of this build is the ability to keep Critical Defenses up infinitely, which makes a massive difference to your survival on average. I've used this build in Fort Aspenwood on the Kurzick side, and I can easily solo a command point if there aren't any humans there. Also, this build is a pain in the butt for healers, as there's not much they can do to stop you. You've got infinite energy; they do not. Jioruji Derako 02:20, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Changes
I've gone through the article again, after testing this build in as many different battle types as I could. I've noticed a few minor weaknesses, and ajusted the Counters and Variants sections accordingly. I also reworked some of the typing to look a little better. On a related note; at what point does an untested build begin to go through voting? I personally don't know how to add the voting section in, so if anyone else knows how, be my guest. Jioruji Derako 17:02, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Do you need Sharpen Daggers?
Change Sharpen Daggers for Way of Perfection, perhaps? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 04:44, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * The only problem I have with Way of Perfection is the duration... with all the points in Dagger Mastery and Critical Strikes, there's not much left for Shadow Arts, and as a result, Way of Perfection only lasts for 17 seconds, and gives you 18 health per hit. The main draw of Sharpen Daggers is the 32 second duration. Aside from the duration though, this might work well to keep yourself alive a bit longer... I'll test it out instead of Sharpen Daggers, and see how it works out. Providing Critical Defenses doesn't get removed, you'll still have an enchantment running to keep Way of the Assassin active... Jioruji Derako 05:38, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * You can always trade a few points of Dagger Mastery for some Shadow Arts if you need to. You're not hitting any critical breakpoints for those skills, I think. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 22:53, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * True, the most you lose is probably a 1-2% chance of critical hit, and about 1 extra damage. As far as keeping Way of the Assassin active, I find Sharpen Daggers to be the most effective, but Way of Perfection makes for a good alternative. Jioruji Derako 02:18, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * You could also use Assassin's Remedy for some condition removal. --Spark 11:47, 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * Good idea... and it's an enchantment in the Critical Strikes line... I'll make sure to put a mention of it in the build. Jioruji Derako 21:47, 1 January 2007 (CST)
 * I love using this build with Dervish secondary, 8 in earth prayers and mystic regeneration. W00t. ^^--Babboelvis 18:01, 15 January 2007 (CST)

PvE
Changed to PvE so removing my vote, Here is an archive of the prior vote + comments:


 * 1) Requires way too much effort to keep all the skills active and apply pressure. Critical Defenses is nice, but offers sub par protection alone. If this ends up being a PvE only build i will change from unfavor to no vote. --Midnight08 00:38, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hmm, really? I will admit, my PvP testing of this build when I made it was mostly in places such as Fort Aspenwood, and yes, the build works especially well in PvE. It's not the easiest build to use, but it has worked for me so far. I'll make sure to continue testing and tuning, if you've got any more input, it's always appreciated. Jioruji Derako 04:31, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Critical Defenses
I really prefer Way of Perfection with higher Shadow Arts over this, unless you are soloing (or otherwise tanking a lot of mobs by yourself). Skyreal 00:58, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Rez
Any skills that can be replaced my a rez?-X H K
 * If anything, I would say Critical Eye is safe to remove. The build is originally designed to be able to solo, or at least hench most areas. If you've got a party, that takes some of the stress off your energy I would think, so a res signet is probably better there. I should probably add a note for that on the main build page... Jioruji Derako 12:57, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Block/evade merge-
This build just got a lot more effective with the block and evasion merge. Sweet! Doom Music 18:33, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, it does help a bit... removes that tiny chance of evasion from the target, hehe. Now, nothing short of Shadow Form or Blind can stop you. Jioruji Derako 19:27, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Temporary Skill Changes
Depending on weather or not some of these temporary skill changes go through (I'm hoping they do, for most of these skills), the build will lose it's main trigger enchant, but also gain a new one. Namely, With the skill change to Sharpen Daggers, it probably won't last long enough. But with the recent buff to Shadow Shroud [EDIT: Shadow of Distress], it suddenly works much better (lasts much longer), and with Critical Defenses up as well, you're pretty much untouchable if your health drops below 50%). Damnit, I don't want to have to switch back after today... here's hoping at the very least, the changes to Shadow Shroud stick around. Jioruji Derako 19:32, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * I think you mean Shroud of Distress, but yes the nerfing of Sharpen Daggers has hurt this build a little, but it shouldn't be too hard to keep an enchantment on you so long as the enemy don't go crazy trying to strip them. RossMM 19:11, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * You're right... I keep mixing those skill names up... anyway, the build already has Critical Defenses also, so there's more then one enchant to keep Way of the Assassin active. Having two enchants just gives you a bit of leeway there, if someone does remove one...
 * Of course, this build just happens to work just as well with someone else's enchantments (stares pointedly at half the monk builds in existence). In PvE, you can always let your monk know that you need enchants... or, just bring a monk henchman, they almost always put enchantments on you (it's a pain in the butt when you don't want enchants). {Jioruji Derako} 22:26, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * A perfect example of another build that holds up enchantments well is my [Build:A/any Mystic Nine Tails] build that we're discussing merging. =p
 * Though, I've never personally liked the Sharpen Daggers enchantment... Two seconds to cast for bleeding? I'd rather see a deep wound or poison. Pestilence 17:20, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Sharpen Daggers always worked well to get the build started, as casting a two-second spell isn't a big deal if you've yet to aggro anything. Once in the fight, you use Critical Defenses to keep everything rolling. This was quite fragile before the skill changes, and even after, it's very easy to take out. Shroud of Distress is my personal favorite now... easy to keep up, easy to re-apply, and you've got a huge block chance right when you need it. Of course, it's still fragile, but what build with enchantments isn't? The upside of using Dervish skills is the low-rechage enchants they've got... makes it easier to recover from enchantment hate. {Jioruji Derako} 17:54, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Oooooh... True-true... I didn't think of that. <<... =3 Pestilence 19:57, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Works for farming, apparently.
A guildmate of mine happens to love farming bosses, namely Chkkr Locust Lord. Using this build (A/D Variant), he switched out Nine Tail Strike for Twisting Fangs and Critical Strike, and now he beats Chkkr solo with it (Chkkr can't land enough hits through Critical Defenses, and anything that connects gets healed right away by Mystic Regen). I haven't bothered to test this on anyone else, but I would just love to beat up one of the big, offensive bosses with this... I'll test it later against Sskai, Dragon's Birth. {Jioruji Derako} 17:01, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * [Build:A/any Chkkr Locust Lord Farmer], [Build:A/any Chkkr Farmer] –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 17:09, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I know, that's why they're in the Farming section and this is in the PvE/AB section. :D Just thought I'd mention, this build's A/D Variant can do a farming build's job fairly well, without having to change many skills. I find that to be useful for me, as I know how to use this build very well, and I'm comfortable with the skill setup. Obviously, it's not going to outshine either of those two builds when it comes to dedicated farming setups though. Oh, and side note, this doesn't work on Sskai. T_T {Jioruji Derako} 17:23, 25 February 2007 (CST)

Critical Hitter Variant
Like how this one looks... A little more focus on just landing a ton of critical hits, eh? I don't think you'll need Fox Fangs and Golden Fox Strike in this one, though, the recharge time will limit you a bit. I'll go over the setup and edit it a bit, I think it would work very well. {Jioruji Derako} 17:26, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * Alright, I like this one. I changed up the Lead and Off-Hand attacks in favor of shorter recharges, and switched the Superior Critical Strikes rune for a Major Critical Strikes and a Major Dagger Mastery (you get about +2% crit. chance from Dagger Mastery, as well, don't forget about that). Let me know if I changed anything that was important, and feel free to revert any mistakes I may have made. {Jioruji Derako} 17:45, 1 March 2007 (CST)

Yep it looks alot better ty for them help ^^. {cary123} 18:19, 1 March 2007 EST)

I made a little modification with the attributes {cary123} 21:40, 1 March 2007 EST)

Shattering Assault Variant
I just wanted to find a home for shattering Assault and your build fit it perfectly, so i'm just throwing it in there to see if others agree or oppose it Wyvern 21:27, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * If you want to add that as a variant, or just mention how easily you can switch out Way of the Assassin for Shattering Assault (you'll still keep a huge critical chance), feel free to add it right into the Variants section. I personally keep tabs on this page, so I can come through later and clean up whatever you type (such as adding a skills template to match the rest of the variants, etc). Also, I believe there's a vetted Shattering Assault build already up... you might want to check that, and see if maybe that's already close to your idea (in which case, it might be easier to add yours as a variant to that build). I'll check that Shattering Assault build out, myself. {Jioruji Derako} 22:57, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * Just in case you want to check it out, the build is [build:A/Mo Enchantment Assault|Enchantment Assault] . Different from yours in more then a few ways, but still retains some key elements. It's up to you where you want to post your variant. {Jioruji Derako} 23:07, 1 March 2007 (CST)

FIX THE 1ST VARENT
sorry i acedletly edited it
 * Not a problem, all fixed. Normally, just use the "Show Preview" button, so you don't need to make so many little adjustments when you're editing. Makes it much easier (no need to keep loading the page, and also doesn't spam the recent changes menu). :D {Jioruji Derako} 22:53, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * Also, hit "History" at the top of the page, when you load an old version and hit edit, then save that one, you can revert the page to an older version. You can also use diff or compare to see the differences between 2 versions. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 23:17, 1 March 2007 (CST)
 * Ah, so that's how you revert... I was going to mention that, but then I realized I didn't have a clue how to do it myself. {Jioruji Derako} 00:18, 2 March 2007 (CST)

Variants, out of control?
I think the variant section is getting out of hand... just some examples Perhaps it's time for a cleanup? But that's just my own opinion, if the population disagrees then let it stay the same. Wyvern 22:28, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "critical hitter" variant, for gods sake this whole build is focused on critical hits already!
 * A "critical tank". I'm pretty sure assassins can't tank, and encouraging so isn't a great idea, also it's just two skills different from the main build, and those two skills don't do anything significant that the main build cannot
 * Then there's a variant that has 5 attack skills and no self preservation other than critical defenses, a 5 attack long chain is just not a good idea when it focuses on nothing but pure damage and nothing outside of that

dude that critical tank can tank warriors, dervs, and assassins, i have personally tanked 2 warriors and 1 derv in pvp, in guild hall i tank on dervs and warriors all the time, because they miss you and you hit 9/10 critical hits and gain 30 health from it you easiley out last them and your attack combo is strong so you easily win, cant tank casters tho since they dont get blocked like melee attacks. -- "Wings" 22:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Okay, you can tank melee characters, but you need to reconsider the term Tank, "Tanks are well-protected front row party members whose role is to draw the enemy's attention (aggro) and attacks towards themselves as well as absorbing damage. They block their enemy's way and as such serve as meat shields for the spell casters and ranged attackers in the back lines behind them. They usually engage foes with melee or PBAoE attacks." Critical defenses is good protection, against melee attacks, tanking is about the full deal, attacks, spells and hexes, you can't really absorb damage with 70 armor. Wyvern 22:43, 15 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I can asorb damge with 80 armor thx, anything that uses melee i can last longer, hit bigger and heal beta! -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 22:49, 15 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I know that most, if not all, of the variants that have been added in so far do work... weather or not they all need to be there is still debatable. Probably a good idea would be to simply downsize most of the discriptions and whatnot. Usage notes, for one, aren't needed, seeing as they're variants (the normal usage should still apply). Usage should be restricted to only cases where the variant differs from the regular version. Personally, the A/D variant is my favorite, and the one I use all the time; I can't say for sure that I have enough experience with any of the others to know how they should be used exactly. Perhaps I'll run through a testing of all the variants so far, and see what I can shave down. I agree, the whole section's a bit too big for my taste at the moment, and I'll see what I can do about it. Probably I'll just cut parts out, and see who complains. :D --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 22:54, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

you think thats big look at the A/E solo farming build for pve lol thats massive. -- "Wings" 22:57, 15 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Too be fair, there's only a little bit of Variants there... the rest is Notes, which basically lists how to beat each seperate boss. :D --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 23:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

still its like 10 of these pages lol -- "Wings" 23:11, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

A/D variant: could add those skills to any build that doesn't use all its slots nor its secondary, not worth a mention imo Critical Hitter: 2 skills in common, not a variant Critical Tank: crappy tank, even so it should be a skill variant, not a skillbar and the likes, just a mention of way of perfection and upping shadow arts last variant: unneeded, crap. –Ichigo724 00:06, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * it may be a crappy tank (only by u's) but it sure does the job agisnt melee'rs so get the fuck off its back plz! -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 00:15, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Please, you may be violating some thing, just take a deep breath. Also, I can hardly read what you said. --SBR 00:17, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * well it works i dont know y people find that hard to believe it out kills a warrior, o no that not right thats not possible. -- [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 00:21, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * It "being able to kill a warrior" does not make it a viable build by any means. Anyway: it shouldn't have a skillbar of its own, all those mini skillbars could be summed up in variants. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 00:39, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * i dont care if the attributes get removed, but the varient is staying there cause it works and its too similar to have its own page! [[Image:Wingsthatheal-icon.jpg]] "Wings" 00:41, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Which is what I said in the first place. A/D, "critical hitter" and the last variant should just go imo though. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 01:05, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I dunno... true, as for the A/D variant, you can easily tack on those dervish skills and it'll probably work. In this case though, I think it has good synergy, especially considering that this build is designed around having enchantments active. In the face of enchantment removal, having a 5sec. or 8sec. recharging enchantment is especially useful. You're adding more then just good healing to the build in this case (assassin doesn't have many good, spammable enchantments). For that reason, I think it's more then worth the mention, and the variant normally works better then the orignal build.
 * What else... the last variant, I'm not a fan of myself, yeah. Basically drops two of your self-defensive skills in favor of a second attack chain, with Blades of Steel for extra damage. This makes you highly reliant on your monks for healing, and that's not what makes a build "good" in my opinion, especially for a PvE setting. Maybe in PvP, where you just need to beat up four dudes faster then they can beat you up.
 * The Critical Tank build (that's yours, right Wings?), I think is more of what a variant should be. It's still the same build, but changes the skills enough to be different. It's a good choice of skill changes, too; Way of Perfection is awesome in this build, and using Critical Eye for the extra crit. chance is very useful. The discription can probably be shortened I think, with a bit of clever wording perhaps.
 * Critical Hitter does a good job of landing critical hits left and right, but the changes it adds aren't worth the extra skill bar for sure. Basically, you just need to mention Way of Perfection is awesome, the attack chain is variable depending on preference, and Feigned Neutrality makes a good self-heal. I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned all that at least once on the build article before, though.
 * Alright, in my personal opinion, the A/D variant isn't quite as generic as you might think at first; and the Critical Tank adds a sizable chunk of self-heal to the build's already high survival rate. To avoid any arguements about what makes a build a "tank", I think we can safely drop the variant titles... :D I'll try to get to work cleaning up the variants section either later tonight, or tomorrow. Expect the size to be halved, at the very least, providing I can reword enough of the discriptions. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 02:21, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Meh, who needs sleep. (it's only three in the morning here, still plenty of nighttime left.) Anyway, I've done a re-write of most of the variants section. Shortened the "Critical Tank" variant, but managed to add a bit more detail to the discription of it. Removed some unneeded notes on the A/D variant, but otherwise didn't really need to change that one much. Removed the other two, and edited the rest of the notes in the variants section a bit. Hopefully this makes everyone happy (i'm almost certain it won't, but hopefully it makes enough people happy). Let me know what you guys think of it now, if you think I cut something that shouldn't have been removed, or forgot to mention something else. I think the reletive size is good now, though, considering this build has turned out to be quite the variant-magnet so far (people need to stop telling people "this build isn't as good as the Critical Fox build, you should add it as a variant though"). :P -- <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 02:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

I'm pretty sure you spell resurrection with 2 r's and only 1 s, just letting you know that before you go spelling incorrectly on other pages. i.e Resurrection Signet or your Ressurection Signet. -- "Wings" 05:18, 16 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Ah, and I'm normally the one correcting that on other pages... that what happens when I type too fast late at night. :P Thanks for the fix. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 16:33, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Possible on a Hero
We should slap on a hero PvE tag, because Zenmai uses this to great effect. She knows when to use Critical Defenses and the chain is simple + deadly. Any objections? Seb2net 10:15, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, really? Second time it's been mentioned, I think. Hmm... seems like a fine idea. If someone else finds out that it doesn't work for some reason, it's not a big deal to remove the tag. We need more Hero builds anyway. I'll go ahead and pop the tag in. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 00:50, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Tested it out myself... works great! Zenmai does a perfect job keeping everything active. My only gripe is that she doesn't like to keep Shroud of Distress up. Probably best to simply use a different skill there, like Critical Eye or the like. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] <font color="#237d00">Jioruji Derako.> 01:31, 12 April 2007 (CDT)