User talk:MistraL/builds/The Last Stand v7.1

You want me to post it on PvX? I'm a longstanding (if lurking) member. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:08, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Eh, my experience with PvX is that people shoot it down before trying because 1) build X is slightly similar 2) build Y is supposedly a teeny tiny bit better, so yours is voted down 3) Your build has skills A and/or B and thus sucks. PvX is a troll infested hellhole (no offence Arnout), and I refuse to go there anymore.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 08:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol PvX. I wasn't gonna do anything more than post it, Nazzer. I just go there for the lulz. Watching them troll each other is mega fun. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 10:50, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I appreciate a proposal, Arnout. But I decide to not posting PvX, as written above, many ppl will complain about my builds. And, with my English, lots of discussion = my brain gets confused. If you hope, feel free to post PvX with your permission. I don't care you paste this build as yours. Ah, if only I could discuss/written in japanese... MistraL 13:00, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

The build
I question the usage of UA on the MM. I understand the monk can borrow it, but you'd have to micromanage it so the MM doesn't have a permanent -1 energy regen. Though I guess soul reaping should sort that out. Still, getting an elite purely for the res seems weird.

Also, the attributes on the rit and monk seem a bit weird :P --El_Nazgir 08:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * thanks for weird attributes. For about UA on MMs;
 * 1) To Avoid defeating the entire party caused by 1 hero's (unexpected/sudden) death. Not only hard rez, but UA rez up with MaxHP & MaxEnergy instantly (no need to pay attention to be interrupted any rez skill), so we choose this skill. Espicially for E/Mo protter's death, if died, this build will soon fail.
 * 2) We argued many times about MM's energy problem, too. From our testing, it's little problem if he has -1 energy regen. But at long-duration battle, this becomes a bit big problem (we confirm there are several times that MM's energy reaches 0). To be honest, yes, this MM's build has worth to be re-consider... The best way is "Don't take long time with single battle".
 * 3) Ele-Healer can't do massive heal (about over 200~) with a second. This may usually happen if damage taker don't have PS/SB before gets attacked. And, all other heroes' elite skill except MM is really needed. So we take UA instead of AotL/JaggedBone reluctantly, and use HB+UA double elite Monk method.
 * 4) About 3, we have some ideas - use primary Monk who has UA, build with energy-friendly skills OR UA instead of Clamor of Souls. Ofcourse this Monk(or Rit) should maintain both HoS and UA, probably energy management becomes problem. MistraL 13:00, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) I personally get around that by having some other heroes take a res, most notably, my mesmer. here, for instance, you could swap remove hex for a hard res, which with FC is pretty fast anyway, and you already have 3 hex removal skills on your eles, unless you really think the extra hex removal is needed. It's situational really. I went through most of the HM dungeons (I admit I had several of the ran for me back in the day) with my own set up, but I recently noticed I had no hex removal when I died of HM EotN dryders, so I changed that. As you can see I rely more on killing things fast and am a lot less defensive. There were of course dungeons I didn't get through with this (vloxen was notably hard, but I managed in the end).
 * 2) I think that in the end, it's probably the best place to put it. If you manage to micro-manage it, even better.
 * As for 3 and 4, can't really comment, I'd have to see the builds in action first.
 * I must thank you. I love making my own builds, and really enjoy talking about them. The only place to do so on a regular basis is PvX, and the trolls prevent that from happening on a friendly basis, so yeh, see above :P --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 14:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Our build's concept is "Reliability" and "Durability" (even DPS gets lower). 1) no one must be dead by any situations. 2) must be not needing to change build/hero by any dungeons/locations (includes Underworld, C2/C3 elite missions). 3) must forget hero's existence completely (this includes micro-manage).
 * Let's think with the worst situation - we need to protect someone who don't have protective spell on him. If this guy getting one hit, soon we need to heal him asap. The second attack is not allowed. Therefore we need high-speed healing, and/or massive healing. This means why we have HB(faster casting) and UA(more healing), this combination makes 2.4x heals. This acts like Divine Intervention. If healing success, maybe E/Mo protter will protect him soon.
 * The reason for UA; even someone has PS on him, but only 10times attack will kill him. Situation like getting attacked by 8 Enchanted Weapon, small amount heals is totally meaningless.
 * The reason for HB; with hard mode, if someone gets 2nd attack from enemy without PS/SB on him, probablly getting killed. It is necessary to interrrupt there. Speed is important.
 * Even if melee goes into mobs without pulling, we should kill them all without anyone dying. We think reliability is the key to aim at almighty build (ofcourse this build, too). In addition to that, we think UA isn't simple rez skill, but "dying = nothing happens" skill. The biggest point is written above, rez by 100% health&energy with 0sec.


 * Our thought order is: 1) We must boost our HB's healing amount. --> 2) How is HB+UA? UA acts as hard rez. --> 3) HB+UA monk tend to become low energy, we need Blood Ritual then. 4) Now what we need is removing conditions. example, how about Foul Feasts? --> 5) N/Mo or Mo/N... then, grab some minion skills and take N/Mo hero. Minion becomes meat-wall.
 * We don't think/expect MM will do a job as pure MM in this build. It is enough having Blood Ritual, PS, and UA. As you know, at some dungeons MM is completely useless because of no corpse. Or if only there are corpses, enemy casting is much faster than us.


 * Ah... This may be important thing - me and my friend who develop this build mainly are both primary Necro. As you wrote, espicially N/Mo, energy problem often happens, then we thought how about to take minions for energy resource.


 * Indeed, Remove Hex -> Hard Rez is one of a choice. But with our experience, 2 UAs (maintain by MM and HB) is enough while we fighting. At the situation of losing 2 UAs (means 2 member of party dead), maybe its situation will not be reversed. We all overwhelmed. Like scroll shooting game, 1 miss would be fatal :o So we don't take another hard rez, but it may become optional. Thanks for nice idea. MistraL 17:11, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Just noticed something else, The second player build seems to rely on smiting and PvE skills with some minor Necro stuff. Is it because the build is too energy-intense and relies on soul reaping? If not, going Mo/N with smiting runes could severely increase damage output, and use Castigation Signet as e-management. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 14:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. The 2nd player (N/Mo) spams RoJ, Necrosis, and YMLD, so energy-intense build. Rely on Soul Reaping. This is why we take N/Mo instead of Mo/N (as written above), the precious resource. And Necrosis is also key skill, this is skill, so interrupt spells such a Power Drain will no effect against this skill. Maybe Mo/N with RoJ is hard choice in point of energy-management. MistraL 17:11, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Dungeons
From my experience with the slavers summit, the dominators and dreamers are the worst, because they nearly insta-res everyone. Yes, the defenders are awful too, but so are the priests. And just for good measure, cleavers and blasphemers have hard resses too. My personal priority list is dominator/dreamer, priest/defender, warder, blasphemer, cleaver, whatever's left. --El_Nazgir 08:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This build rely on enchanted-melee and necro's RoJ. With our experimence, no other foes can't kill without killing Defender first (seems not enough firepower). We think this is why Defender spams SB to their ally, this makes them nearly invulnerable. And this is not confirmed yet but with our experience, there is a timing - even if they have Hard rez, they aren't tried to rez someone up. So defender first. Priest is much more easier target with this Spike build. Perhaps SB is the key skill, when SB is up, our melee's armor-ignoring damage almost negated. MistraL 13:00, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, I see your point. I think I'm just too used to my own set up. They can out-damage the heal and prot, but not if everyone also starts ressing. It also relies more on killing everything quickly before they do too much damage. I should try this build on my sin some times. I got so bored of playing sin regularly that she kinda became an assacaster/discord caller, which is hardly fun. --[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png|Talkpage]]El_Nazgir 14:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As written above, this build's concept is reliability, and always having "Lack of DPS" problem. If you try this build using Clamor of Soul Rit instead of human N/Mo RoJer, you will face this problem (maybe you can't defeat Stone Summits at Slaver's Exile with HM). This is the point which we are understanding and be needed to be re-considering. MistraL 17:11, 15 September 2011 (UTC)