User talk:Quizzical/Rebirth

Now that most resurrection skills have reduced casting times (along with Monk enchantments which speed up casting time), Rebirth isn't that great, but it indeed has saved few party members from bad places and allowed us to continue. Rebirth causing wipes... that's only if you fail to use it. J Striker 06:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You didn't even read the article, did you? Quizzical 06:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you get Masters' on that Zen Daijun attempt? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No. And if I had rebirth, I still wouldn't have gotten master's reward.  Quizzical 06:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And yes, I actually read the article, in which you're pretty much stating the very obvious about Rebirth, that it shouldn't be used in combat. It's only advantage is that it doesn't cause monsters to aggro you or your resurrected party member in those near wipes. However, if you are the only party member remaining and you have Rebirth, you can resurrect all members of your party eventually, without wiping out. J Striker 06:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's basically a concession that you didn't read the article. I went on at great length about how several other skills can do exactly what you describe, even under the rare circumstances most ideally tailored to the use of rebirth.  Quizzical 06:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I am aware that all resurrection skills do exactly same thing, some of the skills are better in some situations, others in other situations. It's not the skill that works well or not, it's about how you're using it. Rebirth is capable of saving your party from near-wipes, where spells such as Restore Life, Resurrect, Flesh of My Flesh and others are not an option. J Striker 06:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know of your experiences, but I've had many in which Rebirth has proved to be useful. J Striker 06:58, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Compared to restore life, yes, rebirth can save some near wipes that restore life can't, but that's because restore life is touch range. The proper comparison is to reuseable resurrection skills with spell range.  Compared to resurrect, flesh of my flesh, or signet of return, I have never seen a wipe that rebirth could have saved and the others could not.  Furthermore, I could not set up such a situation in the game if I tried.  I could probably set one up if given editors to create a custom mission with custom mob placement, AI parameters, and movement paths, but it would take quite a bit of doing--and it would probably take a good deal of testing to get the placement and timing quite right, as well as an intentional near-wipe to require the use of rebirth.  Quizzical 16:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you done HM DoA without Trinity/Ursan? Try surviving when using Death Pact signet when you have no Monks. Corpsecampers ftl. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 16:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My claim is not that all other resurrection skills can save a wipe in the cases that rebirth is meant for, but only that some can. Death pact signet has the drawback that if the resurrected character does not get away in time, the player who used the skill dies, too, which is why I didn't mention it in the relevant part of the article.  It's mainly a vanquishing skill, for use when, if you're going to wipe, it's best to wipe quickly and with minimal death penalty.  Quizzical 16:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, my next argument: You mention the by-one least used rez, Light of Dwayna (rivaled by Revive Animal). It has a small range, below Earshot. It has a long cast time. It costs a bunch of energy. Take the 3 combined words which spell out Light of Dwayna and I'll stop :) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 16:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If there are no mobs remotely near the party members that you're trying to rez, so that you can stand on top of the corpse without risk of aggroing anything, then range doesn't matter. The only portion of the article where light of dwayna is mentioned was to point out that most of the time when resurrecting out of combat, any permanent rez will do the job.  Light of dwayna is not mentioned in the portion of the article that talks about the relatively rare case that people usually think of when they advocate rebirth. Quizzical 21:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)