Talk:Ursan Blessing

/archive 1

Ummm, what?

 * Ppl keep saying, oh, if you don't like it, just go H/H, and leave our poor Ursan alone. What about all the Gate of Anguish, hmm? Look, keep Ursan the way it is, but just add freakin henchmen to GoA!!!!! Otherwise I have to team up with some retard Ursan who wants to breeze through one of the challenging areas of PvE. Konradishes 04:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Nerfing A PvE-Only Skill?
Yeah, I don't think they would do that because if this one skill is getting ANet money from people hearing about it and wanting EotN and going out and buying it they won't nerf it. Plus why the hell would they even do it? Too overpowered for PvE? You guys act like you are facing against real players all the time. Come on this is PvE not PvP. --Hel llb rin ger 23:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * How about the duping bug? That only affected pve.  Indeed, it affected pve a lot less than Ursan Blessing has.  Should they have left that in?
 * It's funny how those who argue against nerfing Ursan Blessing are unable to claim that it is anything remotely resembling balanced, but are reduced to arguing that pve should have such flagrant cheats. But even if one concedes that point, to make Ursan Blessing the only one would still be astonishingly idiotic game design.  Why not make a hundred such skills so game-breakingly overpowered, to at least give players a little variety?  Quizzical 00:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the idea behind that is that using said overpowered skill quickly becomes boring and tedious, forcing people to actually play the game.


 * I got a question, how does it count as a cheat if it's just a very good thing inside the game? --Hel llb rin ger 01:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * At the title screen in Contra, if you pressed up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start it gave you 30 lives instead of the usual three. Konami programmed that into the game intentionally.  Do you consider that just a "very good thing inside the game" or a cheat code?  Quizzical 01:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't be the first time they nerfed a PvE only skill, look at Necrosis.. Zerak talk 17:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Necrosis was obviously too overpowered before. --Hel llb rin ger 20:14, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If semi-spammable 90 armor-ignoring damage, conditional on the target having a hex or condition and at a cost of 5 energy was overpowered, then surely semi-spammable 150 armor-ignoring damage, which always does the damage (and split into two packets) and at no energy cost, is more overpowered. Quizzical 20:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You know this would be overpowered if there was no energy degeneration but seeing as there isn't, I guess it isn't that overpowered. --Hel llb rin ger 21:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? Why do you think GW is overflowing with "rank 10 ursan lf more"-spamming?
 * Also if you think about it, the team build is actually a balanced team because anyone can get in. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 21:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not quite. I would prefer to only take Paragons, Warriors, and Rangers. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That is true, but other then that it is still able to be used by every profession. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 21:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * By that argument, letting players instantly clear any area by typing "iwin" would be perfectly balanced if every profession can do it. Quizzical 22:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah your funny. But I guess you don't see it that Ursan Blessing is actually a skill and "iwin" wouldn't be. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The GW box says something to the effect of skill>grind. Ursan requires no skill, it doesn't even have a full bar. But it require grind, in this case, the norn title. Lord of all tyria 22:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Very well then. Make it a skill called "iwin", that when you activate it, it instantly kills all mobs on radar.  Now it's a skill.  Happy?
 * I'm merely taking your argument to its logical conclusion. If you don't like an immediate corollary of a statement, perhaps something is wrong with the statement.  Quizzical 22:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They already have that skill. Its called "BAMPH!". Its icon has D3v H4x on it. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 22:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Yeah, what 1 skill, soloable, and no grind? Kinda redundant for you to bring that arguement up now. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Quizzical is bringing the fact that ursan requires no skill to utilise, and the fact that you think this is good, to the logical conclusion that you would agree with an auto kill ability. After all, everyone would be able to use it. Lord of all tyria 22:28, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent)Yeah but the fact that you still need a team for Ursan is what I'm trying to show. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine then. Make the "iwin" skill take exactly 13% of the max HP off of all mobs on radar at the next ten second increment.  Make it also require some particular rank of the kind of a big deal title track.  Now you need a team of eight and a bunch of grinding.  Does that make it balanced?  (Incidentally, requiring grinding makes things less balanced, not more.)  Quizzical 23:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Speaking of teams, Ursan Blessing may be an OP skill, but Ursanway teams are actually quite fragile. Remember that Ursan doesn't allow for support, healing, or ressing- only damage. If an Ursan has to drop out of Ursan to res a monk, he's effectively useless for the next 30 seconds- and immediately useless too, considering his energy is gone. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why ursanway means mostly ursan plus a couple of monks. Is there any build that doesn't rely on pve-only skills where 6 of build X plus a couple healers works well nearly everywhere?  Quizzical 23:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm just defending Ursan Blessing. I hardly use it and I'm only r6 norn. I use other builds I make. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 23:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

REPLY to - >"At the title screen in Contra, if you pressed up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start it gave you 30 lives instead of the usual three. Konami programmed that into the game intentionally.  Do you consider that just a "very good thing inside the game" or a cheat code?". ONCE again, this kind of argument is wrong. Did you find that "cheat-code-info" on the manual of the game ? Did you find a nice icon and a full description of that on clear view inside the game ? (you can find more questions in the same line of thinking). If your answer is NO and NO to those 2 questions then you are still comparing DIFFERENT things. A) Cheat code, was "leaked" to the players. B) Ursan Blessing, was introduced to the player as part of the game. I have stated this before but you people still go for these arguments. Please, find better ones. Once again, I DO understand your point of view in general, I just don't agree with your arguments. Ne33us 10:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Quizzicall because unless every other skill in the game just required you to have 2 monks to back you up its way to overpowered.--Eb22m2 16:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine then, let's take your line of reasoning. "Did you find that "cheat-code-info" on the manual of the game ?"  I don't recall ever seeing the manual to Contra, but I'm guessing that the implied answer to that question is "no".  And for comparison, no manual for Guild Wars mentions Ursan Blessing, either.  See for yourself here:   So congratulations, you've spotted another similarity of Ursan Blessing to the famous Konami code.  And this is supposed to prove what, exactly?
 * Next point: "Did you find a nice icon and a full description of that on clear view inside the game ?"  Perhaps you forget how rare blocks of text in games were back then.  I wasn't able to find the size of Contra in particular, but Super Mario Bros. was 32 KB--and that was considered enormous for its day.  That's not 32 KB of text, but 32 KB total, including graphics, AI, and everything.  Even a contemporary game like Zelda II that tried to rely heavily on talking to townspeople allowed townspeople at most 32 characters of text--and I'd be quite surprised if they didn't compress this somehow to take a lot less than 32 bytes.  I'm unable to check this, but the complete text of the entire game of Contra probably takes far less space than the dialogues for the quest to acquire Ursan Blessing--and likely takes less space than the in-game concise description for Ursan Blessing alone.  With so little text available, it should come as no surprise that the Konami code isn't mentioned in-game.  For that matter, even in Faceball, where a cheat code is explained in game, the text used to explain it is so concise as to be hard to follow what it means.
 * And since you bring up an icon, let's consider that the Ursan Blessing icon this wiki uses is 5 KB by itself. A game designer who tried to use several percent of the total space allowed for a commercial game for one trivial icon ought to have been fired.  Quizzical 19:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Since you checked the manuals, did you see any other skills mentioned there ? So what are the other skills ? cheats too ? So what's the final conclusion ? All skill not mentioned in GW manuals are cheat-codes, BUT, you only dislike one, Ursan Blessing. Great way of reasoning !!. I consent that my question about the manual didn't hold water, but I wrote it to be read reasonably and not literally. As for the second part of your answer, what is that all about ? Cheat-code came to be the way they are because of software/hardware limits. Do you believe that ? Do you want us to believe that ? Yet, once more you are only telling half the story. Once again, that a very bad (IMHO) way to argue.
 * To state my position about Ursan Blessing once and for all. Ursan blessing skill is given to the players as a reward to a NPC given quest. That makes it part of the game-play (not the game code, not the game, not the game manual), available to every player. The effectiveness of the skill requires the player to level up a certain title and as of that, it is not an instant killer-skill/god-mode or anything of the kind. The usage of the skill is in order with the functionality of every other skill in the game-play and it is in the discretion of the players to use it as they see fit to their game-play. So for me the bottom line is, Ursan Blessing is a SKILL, not a CHEAT or anything alike. Ursan Blessing IS NOT OVERPOWERED when used by a single player in a party (especially in HM and Elite areas). Ursan Blessing IS OVERPOWERED when used by multiple players in a party (everywhere in the game-play).

"Does Ursan Blessing Needs NERFING ?" I don't care. It's just another SKILL. I don't depend on it, I won't miss it. I use, whatever is available. It's not even worth arguing about it. Ne33us 15:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

isnt it just slightly depressing that u can play through this entire game in hm using a guitar hero controller .... ffs OP doesnt even come close to covering the problem 85.176.73.160 23:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate to agree with the eletist-types in the game, but I have to this time. The arguments you have been making have been more about the nature of the arguments and not of Ursan Blessing. I dislike Ursan Blessing as well. I believe that the elete areas of the game should be difficult. If it is some sort of marketing scheme on the part of Anet, that is kinda low, but they don't charge us...well, it's no justification I guess. But yes, I agree that Ursan Blessing needs a heavy nerf bat. IMO PvE only skills were a mistake to begin with, but I think that rather than just arguing about whether or not it should be nerfed is irrelivant. Suggestions should be made. Devs do paruse the wiki... Anyway I sugest some mechanism that would make it impossible to duplicate this skill on multiple characters. Problem solved. I will say this, however, to those of you who (rightly so) argue that this skill should be left alone. Whenever a team build duplicates a skill on multiple characters that is a red flag that the skill is imbalanced. (See Splinter Weapon at VoD) If a team spends 5 or 6 character in an 8 man team to doing the same job, that must mean that a certain skill or combo is making all others obsolete, I.E. imbalance. So yes, Ursan blessing fits all characteristics of an imbalanced skill in GW and not any other game. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.131.12.190 (contribs).


 * If what you want is a suggestion on how to nerf it, remove the +HP and +armor, and make ursan strike deal damage once instead of twice. Quizzical 22:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill is maintainable Defy Pain, Earth Shaker, Order of the Vampire/Pain, an unblockable, unconditional, Blades of Steel with maximum +60 dmg with a 3 second recharge and no cost, Anthem of Weariness for Ursan Roar's weakness effect, and an IMS that outclasses every other IMS in the game. There you have a comparison to other skills that act similarly to Ursan.


 * Earthshaker is easily outclassed by Ursan Rage. The innate armor and health bonuses easily outclass Defy Pain. Ursan Roar easily outclasses both OoP and Anthem of Weariness/Enfeebling Blood and note that it is one skill. Note that two of these "ordinary" skills are elite. Ursan Roar as a dps boost outclasses OoP because it costs no energy, has no casting time, doesn't sacrifice, and also weakens better than Anthem of Weariness. If you picked OoV to compare Ursan Roar to, it's only 5 energy, still more than Ursan Roar, and it bumps it up to 3 elites in one. Blades of Steel is a dual attack, with 5 energy cost, 8 second recharge and requires having multiple recharging dagger attacks, so it's very conditional compared to Ursan Strike, which outclasses just about every damage skill in the game. You'd have to be some kind of crazy W/N/P/A to use all of these. To get the same effect, you'd need a necro dedicated to spamming OoP/OoV and/or Enfeebling Blood, a tank to Defy Pain/Earthshaker Spam, a Paragon primary or secondary for Anthem of Weariness. Not to mention your perma 33% IMS in Ursan Haste, which also outclasses every other IMS in the game That's 2-3 characters using 2-3 elites and some non-elites spanning 3-4 professions just to match one Ursan, which can be used by any profession and takes up one skill slot.


 * And don't say -2 energy degen balances this, because it doesn't. There are Zealous weapons, there is the innate "Ursan Zealous" effect that stacks with a Zealous weapon, there is Soul Reaping, there is Critical Strikes, there is Energy Storage. Hell, you can even cast Blood Ritual on an Ursan. There are tools that can be used to maintain Ursan for as long as we wish and because of this, Ursan is severely imbalanced.


 * I'm comparing this to "regular" skills just to show how imbalanced Ursan really is. The point of this is to show that Ursan isn't just a PvE skill, it's an obscene mega-fucking-ultra-BFG skill that sickeningly imbalances the game. Anet has made it so that it really isn't viable to use anything but Ursan since people will always take the easiest path to victory (which is unarguably Ursan). And if they can't see why this is poor game design, then I refuse to waste any more of my money on their games. An instant-win button is TERRIBLE game design. I hope this helps to show how imbalanced this skill is. GW-Anon 08:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone who can't understand how overpowered Ursan Blessing is, or the negative efect it has had on the community is not intelligent enough to grasp any rationale that was explained. Ursan is garbage and now that it has been in the game for over a year the damage is done. There is no fix at this point, nerf or no nerf.


 * One half-solution..."fix" Ursan, and with the same update introduce a new ecto-type crafting material (and of course high-end things to go with them) which drops in some elite area...ofc Anet will never do that. - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  20:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursanway, the Toucher of PvE
Those lazy bastards with no skill!-- 22:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's only funny because Ursan Strike is a touch skill. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:54, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Link title

Guitar Hero controller
I'm currently working on being able to run Ursan using a Guitar Hero controller. Frets 1-5 control the skills. Strumming up targets the nearest enemy, and strumming down is the same as the default space bar. The select and start keys are used to target other enemies or nearby allies, for following them to other mobs. Mad as this sounds, it may actually work.


 * However m4|) h4x it is, it goes to the bottom of the page ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 21:08, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, fair enough, my bad. Still, this will be fairly sweet, should I pull it off.


 * Yes, yes it will be :D Too bad this needs a nerf. And don't worry about it, there'll always be someone ready to fix mistakes. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 21:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've encountered a speed bump of sorts...I'm not sure how to bind the guitar hero functions into normal keys. Can anyone with experience using game controllers suggest a way to do this?


 * Search online. They usually have tips on how to do it. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 22:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll need an application to manage the keys; normally a controller would come with one, but obviously a guitar hero doodad wasn't made for PC. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Guitar Ursan is now a reality! Using a doodad called JoyToKey, which I would provide a link to if I didn't have a feeling it was against the rules, I have configured my Xbox 360 X-Plorer to work with Ursan! True, it's hard, but definately worth it for sheer awesome value. Having had refused to use Ursan because of its reputation, I have now found something I can use it for without feeling like a cookie-cut noob.


 * Setup is frets 1-4 as the four ursan skills. The fith fret is equal function with the space bar. Totem of Man is unusable.

The select key is used to target the nearest enemy, like the default 'C' key. The start key targets the next ally in the list. Note that using this makes you entirely dependant on allies for moving around. You simply let them walk ahead and follow them, by targetting them and using the fifth fret (space bar) then use the select key to target enemies. Anyone who fancies playing with a Guitar Ursan, my IGN is Falcifer Veneficus.
 * What about item pick up?--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ 23:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Look, when you're using a guitar to run an ursan, you don't -need- items. You're already as awesome as you can get.
 * When you kill a monster, sometimes it automatically selects their dropped items, and you press space and pick them up right away. -Mike 20:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This seems a bit of a testament to how easy it is to win with Ursan.
 * Haha I was thinking the same thing... <font face = "Matura MT Script Capitals">Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 18:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've taken a vow to only use an Ursan when I'm using the guitar. Seems to give me about the same ability as an average player.
 * I actually used the same program to configure my Logitech controller, normally reserved for Melty Blood, Higurashi Daybreak, and other such doujin games, to Ursan as well. It almost makes the hours you spend in DoA squinting in agony worthwhile. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 17:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You can run any offensive build with a Guitar Hero controller because a melee class with high autoattack dmg is always win in gw, especially in pvp. 87.189.235.107 12:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Cept you have 8 skills, and need quick targetting (mouse), need some hotkeys on your keyboard, etc etc... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

A very simple way to fix ursan
Make it end 20 seconds after it is used, regardless of your energy situation. You would then get 20 seconds of ridiculously overpoweredness (is that a word?), followed by being weaker than normal for a while due to the skill ending, leaving you low on energy and with no elite available. Quizzical 15:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 20 seconds might be too short, though. There are plenty of ways to nerf Ursan, like reducing the maximum HP and AL gained, as well as the effectiveness (damage, recharge, activation, duration...) of all of the Ursan skills. You could make it cancel out any Stances/Echoes you're being affected by, or increase the energy degen to 4 pips. The skill doesn't have to be killed completely, but a pretty hard nerf is in order. ــѕт.  мıкε  15:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * With how insanely overpowered ursan is when it can be kept up indefinitely, keeping it up 2/5 of the time would still be pretty powerful. Don't forget that players would, in practice, have substantial energy upon coming out of ursan, as they'd switch to a negative energy weapon set when it was about to end.  Quizzical 15:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And then use Ether Signet. Actually, 20 second duration doesn't sound too bad, now that I think about it, but it may be better to up the recharge and that 20 second duration to something like 45 second recharge and 30 second duration, so it won't always cut you out in the middle of a battle. ــѕт.  мıкε  15:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well yes, cutting you out in the middle of the battle is the entire point. If you can invariably have ursan blessing active while in combat, and only be without it while out of combat, the situation is not meaningfully changed.  Having to wait between battles would be creating a stupid nuisance, while leaving Ursan just as strongly in need of a nerf as before.  Quizzical 18:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you want to bet that when Ursan gets the axe, people will start using something else. In many areas, perma-blind+block or massive IAS could end up better than a nerfed Ursan.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  18:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it looks like we'll have to wait and see. XD ــѕт.  мıкε  19:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But see, that's one of the wonderful things about this method for nerfing ursan: it could immediately be applied to the other blessing skills in the same manner.  If you nerf ursan by removing some defensive bonuses or reducing the damage output and then want to nerf raven or volfen, you have to start from scratch in figuring out what sort of nerf you want.  Quizzical 20:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So you can't nerf Ursan if it changes the mechanics of the skill, because you'd have to do the same to the others? They could just inscrease the recharges of the Ursan skills, and/or reduce their damage, as I've mentioned. ــѕт.  мıкε  21:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Nerfing the various ursan skills would work as a way to nerf Ursan, too. Provided that they're heavy enough nerfs to make Ursan only situationally useful, I'd certainly be satisfied with that approach.  As Entrea points out, though, they'd probably have to directly nerf Raven and possibly Volfen blessings at the same time, too, to prevent the game from instead being taken over by Ravenway or whatever.  Volfen might not really need a nerf, though, as I'd expect that there are quite a few places where two monks and six Volfens (Volfs?  Wolfs?) would be pretty ineffective in hard mode right now.  Though even Ravenway would probably fail as it is against some hard mode caster-heavy groups.  Quizzical 15:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't make a build around Volfens, but one Volfen (probably D/R or P/R so you can have Quickening Zephyr) in a team can be helpful because of DW spam and AoE IAS (mind you, it's adjacent ranged.) Volfen Bloodlust+OoU Minion Masters is pretty awesome. I still find Ravens to be the least useful because they deal very little damage (maximum of 26 DPS from the Raven skills alone) and conditions like Bleeding and Cripple are more PvP-oriented, anyway. The Raven skills also don't have many profession specific benefits (won't renew Refrains and don't have its own enchantments for Mysticism.) Raven Shriek is the only skill that I find useful, tbh, and I don't think you need 5-6 Ravens for it to be useful. ــѕт.  мıкε  16:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Check This Out
The very fact that people are arguing "for" Ursan and "against" Ursan at all is a sign in itself that Ursan is a mistake. I see hardly any argument for any kind of side for or against the use of say.. Flare.Brass2TheMax 01:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree, people don't usually argue over anything and definitely do not argue at all, UNLESS there is personal gain from the outcome of the argument. And please do not try to persuade me that this isn't a fact, for any reason you may come up with. So the real question isn't how "overpowered" the skill is but, how will the economy of the game will be affected if and when the skill is nerfed, and who or what part of the players base will benefit from that change. Think the rest yourself. Ne33us 15:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Economy? Hah. Lol. GW has no economy, except economy-class travel. Oh, and most people just want at least semi-balanced PvE. Not personal gain. It's retarded to run Ursan everywhere, it's lame, boring, still retarded and repetetive. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So all those farmers out there just want semi-balanced PvE, so they farm their As... off. yeah, sure. All those trying to achive PvE titles also want semi-balanced PvE, yeah right. All those people running Elite missions and areas also want semi-balanced PvE. No one wants the best result with the minimum effort ? No personal gain ? Ok my friend, you convinced me. If you ever run for president, don't use the "No Personal Gain !!!" as your campaign moto. Ne33us 19:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * People who run Elite areas run Ursan. They don't want Ursan nerfed. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  19:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Another way to fix ursan (and other powerful skills)
Maybe by allowing only N occurrences of a pve-only skill in a party would do the trick? Maybe only 2 by team is enough. Parties would have to deal with at most 2 ursans? 90.28.17.250 18:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

PvP
WHY can't Ursan Blessing be used in PvP?!?

Distracting Shot + Burning Arrow (Ranger)

and/or

Conjure Nightmare + any mes interrupt of your choice (Mesmer yeah, obvious, I know)

+

/taunt /point /laugh

Me want PvP Ursans! -->Suicidal Tendencie 13:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They'd have to reduce the damage of the skills, and make Ursan Strike into an attack skill so that it can be blocked. Actually, that would also be a pretty good way to balance Ursan; make Ursan Strike into an attack skill, and reduce its damage to +20 twice. ــѕт.  мıкε  14:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, they should make it PvP legit and unchanged for a day. Then it'll be nerfed into Oblivion and beyond and everyone is happy with Volfenway. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:16, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And....wrong. I'm using Ursan Blessing (PVP)! -->Suicidal Tendencie 14:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, btw Mike, what you said made me think. Want a nerf? Here you go. miniature What's that? Only 20 in one district, what? hm.... Ursan Blessing added: Fails if you activate Ursan Blessing with more than 1 other player already using it. <WTB Dell keyboard which often annoys me when I try and sign...> -->Suicidal Tendencie 14:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 would suck too much, it should be like 3, and then the other usual Ursans would play a Volfen and two Ravens (for IAS and Blind, respectively). With 3 or 4 Warrior Ursans, you can still get a knockdown lock with Ursan Rage while 2 Ravens keep foes Blinded, and the Volfen gives them all IAS (if they're close enough). ــѕт.  мıкε  15:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * more than so it'd be 2, and a balanced team, not I spam buttons team -->Suicidal Tendencie 15:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If something is unbalanced, making it so that you can only have a couple of them in a party at once doesn't address the problem. Quizzical 16:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In a way, it does, because Ursans are only good if you've got 4-6 of them. ــѕт.  мıкε  16:48, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hogwash. If that were the case, I wouldn't see people constantly wanting to go ursan even though they're guaranteed to be the only ursan in the group.  The difference between having 2 ursans and having 6 is the difference between ridiculously unbalancing and game-breakingly unbalancing.  While the former would be an improvement over the latter, not being overpowered at all would be a huge improvement over the former.  Quizzical 16:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact is, though, that Ursan was game-breaking because it was used by 5 or 6 members in a party. I've never really used Ursan Blessing, but I have done a run with Ursans as an Imbagon, though. There are millions of ways to balance Ursan Blessing, but the best has yet to be decided. I don't know if Anet will nerf Ursan at all. ــѕт.  мıкε  20:14, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It needs to impact PvP to warrant a nerf. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If they don't give Ursan a heavy nerf, it will be a reversal of their stated intention: One of the goals is to balance Ursan such that players can still use it as long as they do so in a tactical way.  Automatically bring two ursans every single time and then think about what else you need after that is not using Ursan in a tactical way.  Quizzical 20:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

They should allow all the blessings in PvP, because then people would realize that Ursan sucks and Raven is amazing. 20:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC) The only thing good about Raven is the Blind, tbh. Cripple and Bleeding don't do much for PvE. ــѕт. мıкε  20:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The idea is, it's more tactical to have say...2 Monks, a SS, 2 Ursans, 2 Nukers and a Paragon (just for the sake of example) than to have 2 HBs and 6 others mashing buttons 1, 2, 3. I'm not saying it's going back to the old balanced teams, but it's a step in the right direction, and limits the damage the skill can do, without having to decide how to alter it yet. Doesn't even need to be a permanent decision. -->Suicidal Tendencie 12:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ursan is basically a Warrior, but unblockable. If you make Ursan Strike and Ursan Rage attack skills (and lower their damage a lot), that's another way to balance them. The other Blessings' spammable skills (Raven Talons, Raven Swoop, Volfen Claw, and Volfen Pounce (with some modifications, it would have to be more like Charging Strike, where it triggers on an attack)) could actually benefit a little bit from being attacks (Raven Talons, in particular, because it doesn't return energy when you use it) but by doing so, you might be limiting Blessing users to taking a melee weapon (because many of the skills are touch ranged, and touch ranged=melee ranged). The only reason Ursans are favoured over something like Earth Shaker, or Scythes-wielders with Great Dwarf Weapon, is that the damage from their skills is just about guaranteed ("Can't Touch This!" would counter them, but no one uses it XD) whereas melee can be hexed, blinded and blocked. That's why they're practically the perfect melee weapons, although a little weaker in damage. ــѕт.  мıкε  13:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There should be places where it is stupid to bring even one Ursan. There are for pretty much all of the other builds that seem to be popular in PvE:  barrage/splinter ranger, minion master, N/Rt fake ritualist healer, fire nuker, healer's boon monk, even imbagon (which also needs a nerf).  Of course, that a build is stupid in a particular area won't stop people from bringing it anyway.  There are only a handful of places (such as Abaddon's Gate and Unwaking Waters) where six ursans will make life hard for you, and even in those, one or two are still quite powerful, and they're easy with non-pve only builds, anyway.  Quizzical 16:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing is "a Blessing for Anet" and Doesnt Need A Nerf
I dont understand the complaining that seems to be coming from the Hardcore Elitist PvE crowd and a few PvP people as far as I can tell, which is really confusing, about this PvE skill that is too powerful???

What I get when I read is many people are upset because they feel that Ursan Blessing provides too easy of a way for people to play the game. Well, guess what, if you look at what goes on in GW you will see that the vast majority of players are not hardcore. Do you see groups doing dungeons in GWEN NM or HM, very few except for the few farming teams you see doing the end game dungeons. Alot of people paying for dungeon runs is what you see. Why, because most GW players dont have 2+ hours to sit around trying to form a group that will successfully be able to beat a dungeon. Ever try a PUG only to fail half way through. Very frustrating, which is a big part of the reason that you dont see many PuGs in the harder areas of the game, or you see people forming Ursan Groups because they dont want to waste their time in a Fail Group.

Also, for those that think Ursan is too powerful or whatever, there is nothing forcing you to use Ursan. My guild does UW, FoW, DoA without Ursan because playing Ursan is pretty boring, and I like to play mesmer. Let me be the first to say though that I would never go into HM UW or HM FoW with a non Ursan PuG because they would fail and it would be a huge waste of time. at least 33% of the Ursan PuGs ive been with failed.

The people doing Ursan are not stopping anyone from forming other types of teams, I see people forming balanced non ursan teams all the time, feel free to join one.

Also Nerfing Ursan will not help the game in any way. What you will see is what there was before Ursan, and that is a bunch of farming teams. 2man, 5man, whatever. It was like pulling teeth to find a PuG to even do Forgemaster.

Ursan has been good because now at least you have 8man teams there doing the missions to do them. Not a bucn of hardcore gamers making money of of noobs charging for spider runs, or whatever. I would actually like to see Ursan buffed to the point where people could do GWEN dungeons with it. Then at least people would play instead of paying for a run. Its really hard to find a PuG dungeon, (and I really wish I could because my guild and alliance doesnt do GWEN dungeons), because of everyone just paying some stupid 2man or 3man team for a run. Also its something that any character can do. Before Ursan you had certain team configurations that were populare in some areas and if you didnt have an ele, necro, or whatever then you couldnt get in a group cause everyone was doing the same crap.

Another good thing about Ursan for Anet is that Ursan helps them succeed in their original goal of making a MMORPG that you wouldnt have to be hardcore to play. Nerfing Ursan would backfire on Anet because they would be saying if you want to play this game in its entirety you have to be a hardcore gamer, you have to be willing to sit for 4+hours to be able to play in the high end areas of the game and close the door on the vast majority of GW players. Not a good thing to do with GW2 around the corner if you plan on keeping your current GW audience. Also I think that most people that post about games on sites like this are at least a little hardcore, so keep in mind that the posts suggesting an Ursan nerf probably only represent a very small percentage of the entire GW gaming community and for every post suggesting a nerf there are probably 90+ casual gamers that would be against it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steeler Fan (contribs).


 * "Why, because most GW players dont have 2+ hours to sit around trying to form a group that will successfully be able to beat a dungeon. Ever try a PUG only to fail half way through."
 * Acutally, the problem is most of the people suck too much to form a decent group.


 * "Also, for those that think Ursan is too powerful or whatever, there is nothing forcing you to use Ursan."
 * Ofcourse, you're denying the fact there is no other option with this playerbase.


 * "Also Nerfing Ursan will not help the game in any way. What you will see is what there was before Ursan, and that is a bunch of farming teams. 2man, 5man, whatever. It was like pulling teeth to find a PuG to even do Forgemaster. "
 * And, ofcourse, people will learn to play the freaking game. Most people can only grind for Ursan, with Ursan. And roll Ursan. PvE might just be a challenge.


 * "I would actually like to see Ursan buffed to the point where people could do GWEN dungeons with it. "
 * That's already do-able.


 * "Another good thing about Ursan for Anet is that Ursan helps them succeed in their original goal of making a MMORPG that you wouldnt have to be hardcore to play."
 * You don't have to be hardcore. You need to know what is viable. A spammable 15 Energy skill on your Monk (Heal Party) isn't going to work without any Energy Management. Vampiric Gaze does not help in survivability. Healing Breeze is a filler if there are no other viable options. However, there are dozens of good options. Still, I see the three aforementioned fuckups happening.


 * "you have to be willing to sit for 4+hours to be able to play in the high end areas of the game and close the door on the vast majority of GW players."
 * They're Elite areas for a reason.


 * Ok, done. Have fun. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:27, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * First, please sign your comments by typing ~ at the end of them.


 * The whole "if you don't like ursan, then don't use it" argument has been made many times, and refuted many times. One could just as well argue, if you didn't like the duping bug, you shouldn't have used it, but don't ruin it for the people who do.


 * As for places that are too hard, I've only done a couple of dungeons, but I'm more familiar with the campaigns. The complete list of non-elite cooperative missions in the campaigns (58 missions total) that might be impractical for some classes to beat with henchmen/heroes without using peculiar gear, a secondary profession, pve-only skills (excluding ones given inside the mission, such as Vial of Purified Water), or consumables:


 * 1. The Eternal Grove
 * (end of list)


 * One reason for the constant runs is that many players don't learn how to play the game, because with Ursan, they don't have to, and can win anyway. Nerfing Ursan would make PvE harder only in the sense that removing the duping bug made farming gold harder.


 * The other reason is that players get lazy and get runs for missions that they could do on their own just fine if so inclined. That's hardly a reason to make it easier still.


 * As for PUGs being bad, a PUG is really only as bad as whoever organizes it. Too often, no one organizes the group, which is how you get problems.  Most of the time, it's completely predictable before starting the mission how well the PUG will do.  (Hint:  something to the effect of "hurry up and start" means "I'm going to find a creative way to wipe your group.")


 * So what about the game being an MMORPG that you don't have to be hardcore to play? Well, that's certainly what Guild Wars was before ArenaNet started adding PvE-only skills.  It's still true to a considerable extent today.  If I had an empty character slot, I could probably create a new character and have that character beat nearly any (non-elite, cooperative) hard mode mission (possibly a slightly longer list than above, for lack of fully runed and equipped heroes) in the game with just henchmen/heroes in under 20 hours of play time.  It's very rare that an MMORPG would allow new characters to be ready for the top level content so quickly.


 * But adding the grind of pve-only skills moves the game away from that. Instead, it pushes it toward the "whoever is the highest level and has the best gear wins, even if completely incompetent" approach of so many other games.  More pointedly, the approach of so many other games that I don't want to play because I don't like that approach.  I don't want to have to schedule my life around a game to have a chance to do the hardest stuff in it.  Quizzical 18:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally I'ld love to see something along the lines of "While under the affect of Ursan Blessing you cannot be the target of heals". Would actually make things interesting and fall more into line of the Norn's self reliant life style/reluctance to receive help...That and it'ld be funny to give Ursan groups something to complain about other then a classes base AL :P Hopeless Situations 04:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You gotta add Gate of Madness to that list. It's at least as bad as the Grove. - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  05:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hopeless has an interesting idea. You'd have to make it stronger than only affecting targetted heals, though, as Light of Deliverance, Divine Healing, Heal Area, Life, Song of Restoration, and quite a few other skills can heal without having to target a party member.


 * And no, Gate of Madness most emphatically does not belong on that list. As far as the hardest missions with henchmen/heroes in hard mode and no pve-only skills, I wouldn't put it in the top 10.  I've done it with just henchmen/heroes in hard mode several times.  I did use a lightbringer title (rank 4), and sometimes Lightbringer's Gaze, Sunspear Rebirth Signet, or the sunspear skill of my primary class, but no other title track skills, and could have gotten by without those.  In ten tries in easy mode (all henchmen/heroes) and ten more in hard mode (some of which had other players, but never ursans), I've never wiped there, though I have had a few close calls.  Quizzical 05:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You gain half as much health when healed. ــѕт.  мıкε  15:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

"While under the affect of Ursan Blessing you can no longer be the target of any friendly spells or recieve healing" Congrats you now do more dmg then any other class in the game oh btw don't get hit cause you can't get healed you're ursan afterall and last time I checked there were no Norn monks :P Hopeless Situations 17:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

"The whole "if you don't like ursan, then don't use it" argument has been made many times, and refuted many times. One could just as well argue, if you didn't like the duping bug, you shouldn't have used it, but don't ruin it for the people who do."


 * The whole "if you don't like ursan, then don't use it", still stands, vividly.
 * It's the players decision to play the game the way he/she wants.
 * That's fundamental and it is not arguable.


 * Once more the "The Ursan Blessing skill is similar to a bug" argument. Ok.
 * The "duping bug"...
 * was a bug,
 * it was removed as soon as it came into developers notice
 * people got banned for using it.
 * items/gold was removed from players inventories if those players profited from the bug
 * didn't get nerfed. It was removed from the game.
 * Anet was hugely nice to players that used that bug
 * If Ursan is a bug ...
 * we are playing 8+ months with a bug in the game.
 * it should be removed from the game.
 * players should get banned for using it.
 * we shouldn't be arguing with the term "overpowered" any more

"One reason for the constant runs is that many players don't learn how to play the game, because with Ursan, they don't have to, and can win anyway. Nerfing Ursan would make PvE harder only in the sense that removing the duping bug made farming gold harder. The other reason is that players get lazy and get runs for missions that they could do on their own just fine if so inclined. That's hardly a reason to make it easier still."


 * RUNS. For 2+ years, players of Guild Wars had a "few reasons" to use RUNS and they were doing so. Now with Ursan they have "few reasons plus Ursan", so it is Ursans fault that players were always using RUNS and they are still doing so.
 * LEARN HOW TO PLAY. For 2+ years players learned the game because there was no Ursan. Now with Ursan the former players stopped learning or forgot how to play the game and the new players (buyers) don't learn anything at all, even if they want, because Ursan doesn't let them learn. It pops up on players skill bars and takes over their game-play.
 * LAZY. For 2+ years, players of Guild Wars had a "few reasons" to be lazy and use RUNS and they were doing so. Now with Ursan they have "few reasons plus Ursan", so it is Ursans fault that players were always LAZY (not the guild) and used RUNS and they are still doing so.
 * Sorry but you can't blame Ursan if players don't know or don't want to know how to play the game, they are lazy and they use runs, and/or anything bad that existed before Ursan.
 * Just out of plain opposition to Ursan-wanna-Nerfers.
 * Ursan Blessing and all PvE skills are some of the best things ever introduced to GW and if they are bugs, please Anet make more bugs of that kind. We want PvE bugs. PvE bugs for ever. Thank you !!! Ne33us 19:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * So basically, the way to refute someone else's argument is to begin by ignoring it, make up some other ridiculous argument that you can refute instead, and proceed to refute that? Sorry, but that doesn't touch the original argument.


 * Let's go over this yet again. No one is arguing that the existence of Ursan Blessing is a bug.  If there had been someone arguing that, then sure, you'd have refuted it.  But congratulations, you just refuted an argument that no one was making because it was so ridiculous.


 * The line "if you don't like it, don't use it" is used to implicitly assert its converse: if players do like something, then they should be able to use it.  Lest you claim that I'm reading something into the argument that isn't there, you laid it out more explicitly:  "It's the players decision to play the game the way he/she wants.  That's fundamental and it is not arguable."


 * But that is an argument that if something is in the game once, and some players like to use it, then it should remain in the game forever. That is, that nothing, no matter how game-breaking, should ever be nerfed or even changed.  Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean that outright bugs should be left in the game.  Indeed, taken to its logical conclusion, an absolute right to play however they want would allow vulgar and hateful harassment, attempts at hacking servers, and other things far more destructive than the duping bug.


 * But after stating your claim, you shy away from its immediate corollaries. You seem to make an exception for bugs, but implicitly argue that anything else should be forever immune to nerfs.  That is, if ArenaNet doesn't recognize how powerful a skill would be when they first put it in the game or buff a previously worthless skill, and thus make it incredibly overpowered, then they should never be allowed to undo their blunder.


 * And that would be astonishingly awful game design. With more than a thousand skills in the game, it is quite difficult and perhaps impossible to balance everything perfectly.  Play balance is not an issue of, if we do such and such, everything will be perfect.  Rather, it is an case of, if we do this, it will make things better.  Good play balance comes as a result of hundreds or thousands of little tweaks over time, not some ideas in one game designer's head before he sees how stuff will play out.


 * If you're honest here, it's not hard to see that ArenaNet blundered. Do you really think that they intended to make Ursan Blessing vastly stronger than Volfen Blessing?  Even if one believes that play balance is a bad thing and Ursan Blessing should be insanely overpowered, why should not Volfen Blessing be equally overpowered?


 * You're arguing that once a mistake is made, unless it is an outright bug, it ought never to be undone, even if it could be fixed quite easily. If nerfing a skill is never allowed, then lateral changes for which it is debateable whether the skill is stronger or weaker cannot be allowed, either, because some will see them as a nerf.  Even buffing a skill would not be allowed, as it makes the other skills relatively weaker by comparison.  In that case, on what basis are you arguing that it should ever be acceptable to tweak any skills at all, or introduce new ones?  If GWEN should never have existed (as the new skills did create new counters to old ones), then Ursan Blessing should not exist at all, and we wouldn't have a problem with it being overpowered.


 * If you're going to make an argument, don't shy away from its immediate corollaries. Quizzical 20:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * DAMN! If that was me that you just refuted, I'd be QQing in a corner right now :P Anyway, to contribute to the "conversation", farther up on this page lies proof that it is overpowered and requires no skill --Gimmethegepgun 20:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I spy slippery slopes. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  20:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)