Talk:Game updates/20070809

Favor of the Gods
I do not like this new system ONE bit... And I don't even PvP. ~  Gold  Dean   - 20:01, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I also hope they know what they're doing, like, are there enough people per hour attaining a relevant max rank. Either way, it's a dramatic shift away from PvP towards PvE, as is the trend with GW in general. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 20:06, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yea, I doubt this will work for too long.-- Thelordofblah 20:16, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't really understand how they're doing it, too. I mean... If 6 people get a maxed-out title at 10:30 PM, the world will have favor for 18 minutes at 11 PM? That just seems dumb, really. I mean, what happens when no one maxes out a title for two weeks? Not to mention, if it displays who maxed out a title, that person is going to get bombarded with harassment for at least 4 hours. ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 20:17, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think they need to up the time for each title earned while we already have favor. I have to disagree with you about getting bombarded... Nobody doing HA got bombarded, and what reason would they have to do so? "GET MOAR TITLES PL0X!1"?-- Thelordofblah 20:30, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It doesn't show any of the names of the people who won HoH. --Curse You 20:32, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Observer mode. This really separates PvE from PvP. I think it's odd, though. Working off of maxed titles? I don't think this will work very well or very long. Cutsman 20:38, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It does show the leader's name if he/she isn't in a guild or the HA team doesn't contain a majority amount of people belonging to one guild. And I don't understand it much either; does someone need to *reach* the max title in order to cause a favor shift? If that's true, people with already maxed titles have even less to do.


 * On a different matter, goodbye SP sins. You will not be missed. At least, I won't. Channeling and spirit rits really got the shaft, though...--Xiu Kuro 20:42, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It's easy. If the players don't have favor, there is a countdown of 20 max titles. As soon as those 20 titles have been maxed across all players (within a minute, an hour, a week), all territories get favor for 60 minutes. If a player maxes a title while we have favor, the duration will be extended by 3 minutes. So theoretically, if the average time to the next max title is less than 3 minutes, it's permanent favor for all territories. --[[Image:Roland_icon.png]]Roland of Gilead (talk) 20:42, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * It was asked if they knew what they were doing... unlike a skill balance where the results aren't fully known, knowing often people get maxed titles is something Anet can actually measure. You don't think they put this idea into use without watching the rate that people max titles do you? This isn't an experiment, it will likely have expected results. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 20:56, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Good job Anet. Take away the last entertaining PvP thing.  Now there is no reason to play in HA.  There better be the chest at the end still.  Do they ex[ect all the HA'ers to just AB or something?  I got GW for the PvP.  I downloaded Vent, TS, and Teambuilder for PvP.  But now all PvP people need to PvE to get favor.  >:| U phail ANET 76.170.11.100
 * That makes zero sense. Why would you care about favor. Underworld and FoW are PvE. Antiarchangel 21:29, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * What I'm not entirely sure about is why they did this right after they had that big HA weekend.Riveted 21:30, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Just because it affects PvE things doesn't mean HA isn't fun. But now HA has no purpose.  The whole reason I (and probably lots of other people) played HA was to affect PvE play.  But now, the only reason to HA is to get the prizes at the end. The Imperialist
 * There's still the fame and title.--Dice 21:48, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * True... but now there's no reward besides the 20k items at the end D: The Imperialist

Resetting the margin; so wait, if favor is now based on maxing titles, then ANet could at least make passage scrolls more common. I mean seriously, this doesn't motivate me to max any titles; 3 minutes of favor per max title seems kinda like a rip-off to me. As for the Ritualist skills, exhaustion isn't super bad, just learn to use skills modestly and intelligently. Seriously, they lowered the energy cost of most of the skills they added exhaustion to; and honestly I'd rather have a 10 energy Dissonance/Disenchantment that causes exhaustion than a 25 energy one that doesn't. Zaboomafoo 23:24, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * ANet should forget the titles. Now, eevrything is about titles. HA is about titles. The game is about damn titles... what went wrong?

All I can say is lol at the PvP whiners. Maybe those additctive PvP'ers in europe will get lives now. -- Hawk Skeer  09:40, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * -addictive +good --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]] 10:54, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Buff to Guardian
Goodbye Pensive Guardian, we hardly knew ye. Discuss. --Kale Ironfist 20:43, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * like people even used Pensive in the first place :P We don't have an overflow of Dervs anymore, and with the change to Aegis I doubt wars/sins/rangers will be enchanted for very long. --Xiu Kuro 20:48, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Skill Changes
Wow. Reading through that list, I just started seeing in my head all the builds that are getting nerfed, and a lot that will need to be reworked to be somewhat effective again.Riveted 21:29, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Nah, they nerfed the gimmicks and left the real builds alone. If you were using balanced before the nerf, you don't have to change anything. - Auron 21:36, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * At least there's no changes to RaO (unless I can't see something) The Imperialist
 * No, they nerfed the cut/paste builds that were (very unfortunately) overflowing GW PvP and making it not be fun any more. And for once it nerfed them by actually reducing their strength instead of making something else MORE overpowered to counter it, as ANet tends to do... --Gimmethegepgun 21:42, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well they totally killed Rits. But they buffed my 2 fave professions... 2 out of 3 isn't bad... 76.170.11.100
 * Nah, my Resto rit was completely unaffected by this, so I don't have any complaints about it --Gimmethegepgun 21:47, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Then again, not everyone plays RestRits... The Imperialist
 * Well, nuts to them. If they have complaints, maybe they should direct them at the hordes of people that abused ritspike instead of crying at ANet for trying to diversify PvP (if not doing it quite right...) --Gimmethegepgun 21:50, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well they basically forced Rits into a Restoration role since all the good skills cause Exhaustion now... The Imperialist
 * Or maybe you could stomach the exhaustion and place spirits properly and move em around with Draw Spirit and the like instead of spamming them into oblivion like most people do --Gimmethegepgun 21:53, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * ANet used Exhaustion to balance otherwise incredibly powerful Ele skills like Meteor Shower. In fact, the main target of Exhaustion for eles is skills that do KD, massive spammable damage or energy management. Wielder's Strike isn't comparable to say Meteor or Obsidian Flame. Eles have a gigantic energy pool, whereas rits do not, especially if they are holding an item other than Vorizun's Ashes. This makes exhaustion something like twice as bad or worse for RItualists.


 * The Exhaustion is for Spirits that nobody would bother to move anyway, as they are the short-life ones. Spirit Rift became a useable spell when the cost and cast time were buffed, and nerfing the only effective Rit AOE is bad news for PVE. For PVP, if you see a Rift, run! it's not that hard. A 2s cast just makes it interrupt-bait again. IMO, Wielder's is already balanced by it's long recharge compared to say, Spirit Burn. If you're going to make it exhausting, then make the damage armor ignoring like Obsidian Flame :P. Otherwise, why not just nerf the damage and buff the recharge, make it a Weapon spell version of Spirit Burn, not such a good spike skill.


 * Oh, and Sight Beyond Sight got a buff. So, they buffed the rather gimmicky Spirit's Strength build, and gave a hearty "screw you" to most other damage dealer builds. nice "balance".... :(Labmonkey 05:56, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sight Beyond Sight buff didn't help Spirit's Strength build, cause the nerf to Vital Weapon more than counteracted the slight advantage given by the SBS boost.

Going way back to what Auron said... you do have a point there, I only saw a couple of my rarely-used builds affected by this (primary ranger). What I am seeing are the builds that I'm not going have to worry about fighting anymore. What I really don't understand is why they bothered changing Escape. As far as I know, that doesn't really get used in PvP much, it's usually only in PvE running builds. Riveted 23:36, 9 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Hard to believe that they buffed a skill for pve..... The Hobo 23:43, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Izzy stated that he felt it was unfair how Escape and Storm Chaser were getting shunted by Natural Stride --Curse You 00:00, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

New favor system... again. Also, Ranger buffs!
The new favor system sucks, i know why they did it, to motivate for Hall of Monuments. But even still, it's pretty lame, and doesn't make sense at all. So now the gods will bless you if you eat lots of candy, get totally wasted, and run around aimlessly looking for nooks and crannies. Oh and can't forget the Gods absolutely loving your ability to play games of chance(which no one plays, really just stands around and waits for points). Great, new favor system sucks, i vote for change back. Now...as for rangers, I'm at a conflict here... on one hand, the new favor system sucks, as far as i can tell, no one is happy about it. On the other hand, my ranger who is pretty much the only char i play anymore(until i run out of money, then it's Derv for runs), gets a large buff...if he ever decides to use any of those skills. What really needs a buff is the glitch in RA where you get only 2 or 3 allies, no leavers, just one or two short of a full party, that pisses me off and needs to be fixed now.--Darksyde Never Again 22:28, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The Ranger buffs aren't that great. Escape is now an elite strength, Expertise-based Natural Stride but still won't be used, and (amazingly) Punishing Shot got a recharge buff, but recharging 3 seconds faster still won't make it see any use either. The rest is pretty forgettable...Point Blank/Zojun's makes Power Shot more laughably useless than ever by comparison. I know, I'm an ungrateful whiner. I feel far more sympathy for the Rits, though. Arshay Duskbrow 22:37, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd go lightly on that sympathy note. Yes, the ones that never went for a ritspike in their life deserve sympathy (though the spiritspammers should focus less on spamming and more on proper placement), but many brought it upon themselves by using ritspike in the first place, so be careful where you aim that --Gimmethegepgun 22:49, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Personally, I'm sad because trying to maintain a weapon spell for Spirit's Strength is now harder than ever. - Vermain 00:45, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

A.net is not making enough skill changes in 1 update to actually balance the skills as a whole. It's just nerf after nerf, until all skills are as crappy as Ether Lord. And, the new favor system is to get ppl to grind for max titles, then offer "huge" rewards in GW2, so ppl will buy GW2. A.net has gone from innovative game company, to scamway. --8765 02:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I personally was pretty damn tired of Europe having favor 20/7. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 10:36, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed. And that should be 23/7. -- Hawk Skeer [[Image:Hawkicon.png]] 11:34, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't mind about that (see my userpage =D). It was more like 15/24 anyway, never when I wanted to play. Anyway, I like the changes to rangers, I love them, but I think they are a bit pointless. I mean, Escape for running. Ok, I will need to think while running now, but still doable. (Now I think about it: Storm Chaser is 20 sec recharge and 21 sec duration. Might use that one). The only "real" buff to ranger skills is Flame Trap and Famine, Echo Trappers and Famine rangers will see much (even) more use now. Dr ag nm n   talk  12:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You know what they should do? Change Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite to spells(still touch range), cost 5 energy, and have a nice friendly 8 sec recharge, then we'd see less of those worthless touch rangers around. Not really any other overused build that needs a good nerfin that i can think of. Thumper is overused, but most of those suck anyways.--Darksyde Never Again 15:42, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Other than the fact that you don't LIKE touch rangers, name even ONE reason those skills need to be nerfed? There's like a dozen different ways to easily counter touchers-aside from the basic kiting, there's a whole boatload of snares, and a toucher who can't get close enough to touch anyone is utterly useless. Not to mention edenial, Diversion, Distracting Shot, simply, oh, having a good monk... DKS01 16:27, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The skills wouldn't be nerfed, they just wouldn't be spammable, and none of the "counters" for touch rangers are regularly used or totally effective. Pretty much only Rangers and mesmers with REALLY FAST reflexes can counter a touch ranger, or you can snare them, but if you're a sin, derv, or war, that's not possible because they bring plague touch, if you're an ele, the snare won't last long enough for you to kill them since they take half dmg from elemental, if you're a monk, you suck for damage, or you're a smite and you're still screwed and if you're a Paragon, you NEED allies to even be able to fight, most of the time. You'd have to be an idiot to say the touch ranger build is not overused and doesn't need a nerfin. The skills wouldn't be nerfed, just the touch ranger build, and it needs it.--Darksyde Never Again 16:32, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Overused does not mean overpowered, look at Reversal of Fortune. You should be fighting with a team (it IS a team based game), and basic tactics is all that is required. It doesn't need a nerf, mostly because it doesn't work in high end PvP, and that's where the majority of skill balance comes from. --Kale Ironfist 17:46, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Beyond that, many of his points are irreleveant. It's not possible to snare them cause they bring Plague Touch? Umm, after you snare them, try getting away from them? They can't plague touch it back unless someone is stupid enough to keep standing there. And eles can't kill them after snare? So what, just avoid them, you don't have to kill them to render them worthless. It's like putting Empathy and SS on a warrior. The spells don't have to kill the war and often aren't even meant to, they just render him useless till they're removed. Same with an ele snare on a toucher, render him useless till you can muster the force to gang him and kill him. Anyone who thinks touchers need nerfing seriously need to learn how to play the game, they're only really useful in ABs and even then they're often easy kills. DKS01 00:42, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm all for at least making them spells (even though their cost would be reduced anyway) since then mesmer stuff like Migraine would actually be useful against them, and so would daze (at least until they touch it away) --Gimmethegepgun 16:35, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, because making them spells wouldn't be worse... Expertise would still effect them, and you would be able to make a Cultist's Fervor touch necro, which would be able to deal a good amount more damage. --Curse You 21:49, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * But, like I said, anti-caster stuff like most mesmer interrupts and cast-lengthening spells/daze would be effective against them. Also, you wouldn't make a Cultist's Fervor one because that would bring the energy cost down to the same amount, but you would barely get any health when you use the skills and would have less armor than the toucher anyway. It would also make them vulnerable to Power Block instead of waiting for one of the noobs that use Life Siphon so Power Block would work --Gimmethegepgun 13:16, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sure, snare them then run away, except that plague touch is 0 recharge and 3/4 sec cast time, so by the time you've been able to turn around they've passed cripple onto you. It's not just AB that they're overpowered, it's HB too, and RA, i see them all the time, and most people don't run around with the few skills that can stop a touch ranger and as for ele snares, you're forgetting the point. "Just muster enough forces to kill them" well that's great, and that's what we do, or try to, but the point is we shouldn't have to muster up 5 or 6 people to kill one person. When there's a build so simple to use that can hold off 6+ people, it's overpowered and the skills need to be changed, not nerfed, just changed. There's nothing wrong with 5 energy cost and 8 sec cooldown and making them spells. It'll stop touch rangers(which 90% of GW players hate) and it'll still leave them useful for the people who should be using them: Necromancers.--Darksyde Never Again 12:59, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Learn to play. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 13:34, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Shouldn't have to muster up 5-6 people to kill them? If you're playing halfway decent, you won't need 5-6 people to kill them. Likewise, try soloing a monk and see how well you fare. Without multiple people pressuring him, he's gonna be standing there awhile too. And no, if's NOT hard to cripple them and then run, I've DONE it enough times to know this. Cripple, run, he can't plague it back to you. Simple fact-if you can't cope with such an easily countered build, you have no business being in the PvP areas to begin with. Bottom line. DKS01 17:28, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * DNA, I suggest you take this to a PvP thread on a major Guild Wars fansite, and watch how PvPers will rip into you. NONE of your arguments make any sense. Snares aren't just cripples, there are Water and Illusion Magic snares, with water being very common, with water trident knocking them down repeatedly, as they have no defense against hexes. Also, the biggest counter to Touchers is TO MOVE. Yes, by moving away from them and effectively ignoring them until you can bother with them, you cut their ability to siphon health, since they too have to move and then activate the skills. Domination Mesmers already have Signet of Humility and Diversion practically pinned to their skill bars. Instead of complaining how they're overpowered, when they are most definitely not, I have to echo Skakid9090 and say "Learn to play". Asking for nerfs to the build doesn't actually do anything, since you'd still be a poor player, and they'd just move onto the next mindless build. --Kale Ironfist 19:23, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Show me a way for a warrior to counter it. Warriors can pretty much only snare someone with cripple, but they have to be in touch range to do that, most of the time. Most of the counters for touch rangers are almost entirely useless against other builds, that's why i think they should change it. The build is easy to counter, if you have a build specifically designed to stop it. There's no reason Vampiric bite/touch shouldn't be spells, plague touch is a spell, those two should also be spells. They're also nearly useless for the profession they belong to, Necromancer. So make them useful for necromancers, and make the skill make more sense. There is nothing wrong with it being a spell and having a 5-8 second recharge with a 5-10 energy cost. And i'm not a "poor player", There's not really any rank system or record in GW to keep track of your victories/losses, but i usually win in PVP, whether it's 1v1, RA, TA, or AB(though I'm aware that RA and AB are largely luck). Don't tell me to learn to play, I'm telling you to accept that there's nothing wrong with it being a spell and being less spammable. It was stupid of Anet in the first place to create duplicate skills.--Darksyde Never Again 15:57, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You just ignored the biggest counter, and that's to kite (in other words, MOVE). Good job presenting yourself as not a poor player. Also, RA, TA and AB are largely not regarded as PvP, no matter how much ANet presents them to be. 1v1 is not PvP, since this is a team game, and is thus largely irrelevant. Easy to counter with a specific build? No, it's easy to counter by not playing to their advantage (ie, not moving). Changing them to spells? Does nothing, except make the Necromancer stronger, since they'd still be touch range and therefore subject to Expertise. If they remove touch range, it'd be stronger than Vampiric Gaze unless the recharge goes up. If you up the recharge, you kill the skill and its duplicate since there is no longer an advantage to using it over another vampiric skill, no matter how much you drop the energy cost. --Kale Ironfist 18:45, 19 August 2007 (CDT)