User talk:Gordon Ecker/Team - Domain of Anguish Minion Bomb Factory

Rate-a-build
''Please rate {Deleted Link}. It is not mandatory to explain your rating and testing is optional, though it is preferable. Also, please take note of where a build is designed to be used before voting.''

The build functions as intended, equally or better than other builds (Favored):
 * 1) (your sig here)

The build functions as intended, but other builds with the same professions do it better (Unfavored):
 * 1) (your sig here)

The build does not fulfil its designated role at all (Unfavored): Finally this build has too many flaws: - even with 70 minions, they are too weak and die before reaching their designed target. - the Minion Bombers need to put themselves in harm way to make the minions attack. - It is very hard (as every minion master should know) to put Death Nova on 10 minions. - It is even harder to keep your minions alive while waiting for other players to have all minions. - This build doesn't need 2 saccers. - "Awaken the Blood" is useless for the saccer. - The resmer should have Resurrection Chant instead of the signet. - These no use for res signets. Rebirth should be enough Icyangel Strawberry 06:02, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Failed. Tested that build twice in the city and the monsters didn't even get hurt. Actually I don't think even one monster got hurt.


 * 1) finally managed to test it with guildies. just not worth the effort, minions are too weak to do anything - this may be an idea for other situations, but for DoA, im raising white flag --Babboelvis 17:14, 27 January 2007 (CST)


 * 1) I wanted it to work, I really did because it would just be so nice if it did.  Sadly, it did not.    Defiant Elements 23:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)

Discussion
This build is completely untested, my necromancer hasn't reached Domain of Anguish yet. -- Gordon Ecker 00:39, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ummm... once you put a build into the Untested Section, the assumption is that you have fully tested and support your own build (which is why voting by the creator is not considered). I am not sure what Wiki's policy on a build untested by even the creator is, but from what I know, either, this should at least be moved to a build stub section (especially considering two of the builds within this team have like 3 skills each...) or, this should be deleted and reposted once it has been thought out more fully or at least been tested by the creator.  Defiant Elements 01:42, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * On a side note, I think you would be better off with Rt/N minion bombers as opposed to N/Mo
 * says to put the untested-build tag on a build when it's ready for testing, and this build is complete and ready for testing. As for Rt/N, Explosive Growth and Spirit's Gift won't work because the minions are being animated far away from any foes, and would make the build extremely PuG unfriendly. -- Gordon Ecker 02:00, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * says to put the untested-build tag on a build when it's ready for testing, and this build is complete and ready for testing. As for Rt/N, Spirit's Gift won't work because the minions are being animated far away from any foes, and Explosive Growth would only work if Jagged Bones triggers it (which needs to be tested). Besides, a team build that needs six ritualists with a hard to cap Nightfall elite in order to do Mallyx the Unyielding, a Nightfall quest, is going to be nearly impossible to form a PuG for. If Jagged Bones triggers Explosive Growth then Rt/N would work as a substitute. -- Gordon Ecker 02:00, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * Result of recent testing (also on Jagged Bones page) Jagged Bones will trigger the Explosive Growth on the minion's master, not on the caster of Jagged Bones (unless he's also the master). Same applies to Boon of Creation, and probably applies to Spirit's Gift. --Khoross 10:19, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Use Resurrection Chant instead of Restore Life, chant doesn't have a recharge slowing the process. The necros have a huge chance of dying when aggroing their minions on the enemy, so make sure your factory is producing minions a safe distance from any run-a-way minion aggro. You dont need 6 necros worth of minions to down a mobo,r shouldnt atleast, so you can be making minions as some of the necros are destroying mobs (much quicker than making 60 minions in 1 pop THEN killing enemies) - Former Ruling 01:35, 7 December 2006 (CST)


 * 60 minions might actually be necessary for some of the overlords. Shiro apparently has ~6300 health. -- Gordon Ecker 02:41, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Note that my previous post was before the build was complete. Also, although in many ways this build is self-explanatory, you might want to go into at least some greater depth about using the build, equipment, maybe some more variants, and fill in a couple of the saccers skills since three optionals is kinda meh. Defiant Elements 23:33, 13 December 2006 (CST)


 * Good Job completing the build, when I first say it there were SO many optional slots. Defiant Elements 16:04, 25 December 2006 (CST)


 * Surely the time & energy need to kill and then res 1 guy 30 times and then creating 60 minions is going to make this near impossible as the degen the minions have by then will be too much? If you could speed this up using at least another saccer and something like Death Pact Signet and spread BiP around the Minion Bombers as well this might just work. Ajax Baby Eater 16:08, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Rezmer
Hey, there's a use for Signet of Illusions and Holy Haste, eh? It'd cut your res time in half. Allowing your MM's more time to get everything enchanted before the degen gets too heavy. --Crazytreeboy 02:04, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * Minion degen doesn't matter here. The beauty of Jagged Bones is that it recreates the minions, restarting their degen. But it's still useful for speeding up those rez times for the thirty resurrects it will take to fuel this. --Thervold 16:36, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ever tried a Monk primary with Healer's Boon and Holy Haste?they DO stack i tested it.It's pretty much the same result as your Rezmer witn no actual need for being Me primary.(Restore Life in 2 secs)Sorry for rezmers, but you'll find more monks in DoA(if the thing is going to work)anyway. on top of that you could even make it necro secondary and give it minions - just a thought.--Babboelvis 11:40, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Ritualist Option
If you can fit a Ritualist in the optional professions, please do. I was thinking a ritualists using death pact signets to increase deaths without increasing DP? And explosive growth is very useful when things are dying a lot. I know they are not PUG friendly, but it's kinda a catch 22. We need more team builds that ritualists can be a part of. Then hopefully more people will play the profession. Here is a video showing what I mean with Death Pact.  I don't have any rt heroes, but the idea will work if all members are death/spawning/restoration spec'd Rt/N. No resmer needed. After more testing. The leader should use Lively Was Naomei to ressurect everyone after the death pact chain has gotten big enough to kill everyone but the leader and the leader has full minions. Then the chain begins again to fill up the 2nd minion masters army. Everytime you want to break the death pact chain have the leader use Lively was Naomei. :D --RedFeather 01:02, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * This may be good, but will remain an idea, imo. too bad. ritualist MM is underestimated.--Babboelvis 07:23, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Foundry Environmental effect
does it effect minions? Might be hard to move them from place to place if they keep taking ass tons of damage while moving in addition to whatever degen they have --waywrong 23:49, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Time To Vote
This build has been in the untested section for a long time and it is assumed that builds in the untested section are ready for voting. However, after a lengthy delay, there is still no Rate-a-Build section. If it still needs more work, put it in stubs, if not I think it's time to start voting and to do so, the creator needs to put up a rate-a-build. Defiant Elements 23:24, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Has anybody actually tested it yet? Jogden 21:40, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * I agree with Defiant Elements.I tested it in Vabbi for the moment and it is workable with heroes and a few changes (like AotL).It works extremely well if you have the patience to make minions, nothing could stand against it except really intensive AoE damage killing minions. I can't vote till i get to DoA with my necro though.--Babboelvis 12:20, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Variants
Couldn't you use something else besides a necro to be the saccer? Give any other profession BIP and they could do it too.
 * Hmm.Yes, it could be replaced. But still, can't guess a purpose for it yet since whatever it will be, it can't be given minions. :p --Babboelvis 11:47, 9 January 2007 (CST):Why give minions to a saccer? >_>
 * yes, it's counterproductive,i expressed myself badly, but i wanted to state that a saccer's only purpose is to die, and to die asap, so no point in changing the primary, except for making a PUG in absence of a blood necro maybe. :p --Babboelvis 21:34, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Types of MM's to use
Just a couple ideas for you,I think there's a lot of MM builds around that could help improve this.you could implement one or two of them. For example, Aura of the Lich would cut the sacrifice costs, and allow one(or more) of the minion masters to act as minion healer. And Flesh Golem would be greatly better for tanking purposes, having five or six of them is a nicer starter imo,allowing you more power when with fewer minions(they also deal quite a dmg). I'm saying this because i feel like this build, though workable, is going to have a hard time in DoA. and on top of that, jagged bones forces you to make jagged horrors, while other elites don't.Ok you will say, there are sacrifice costs to deal with;With 60 Minions it's more than half your health (I had Sacrifice Costs for 100+ dmg with 220 or so health, AotL up and not the full number of minions)Well, then you just take heal area on all of the MMs, and let them stand tight and spam it with the energy from saccer's deaths, letting one of these, Build:N/D_Heir_to_the_Master (ok,maybe with a couple variations), spam Blood of the Master with Aura of the Lich on himself, doing all teh dirty work for the team :> the point of doing this is damage output, being able to use bone fiends and golems for example, which can add to the build's power, since army is everything, and in DoA every kind minion but golems will be "oneshotted" --Babboelvis 11:56, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Putrid Flesh
From my own expirence, Putrid Flesh is better then taste of death for bombing. I would replace.