Talk:Mursaat

I say we put back tentackles.. Feathers does not seem accurate. They LOOK like feathers, but I believe they are just tentacle thingies. :) --Karlos 07:14, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Well, I really think they are feathers :P I mean, they could have made them look like tentacles if they're supposed to be tentacles, hehe 20:16, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I've removed the reference all together. If it can be agreed what they are supposed to be then it can go back :) 03:45, 11 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * How about calling them "a waving fan of black petals"? This would be similar to my original phrase but would avoid characterizing the appendages except by their appearance. Saucepan 03:48, 13 Jul 2005 (EST)

I think the anonymous edit should probably be reverted. From the little info you can glean about the actual prophesies, there's no mention of the titans actually threatening humans. The Mursaat just did what they did for themselves. --Fyren 22:36, 29 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Hmmm, during the titan quests, they definitly do threaten humans. However I agree that the Mursaat's motives are purely selfish and not intended to saveguard the humans. --Xeeron 22:46, 29 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Right, I wasn't implying the titans weren't, just that it wasn't in the prophesies, so couldn't it have been a motivation for the Mursaat. --Fyren 22:53, 29 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * If you say so - the impression I got was that the Chosen were manipulated by 'Khilbron' into releasing the Titans. The Mursaat do not openly declare hostilities throughout the game (just their human allies) whilst the Vizier most certainly does - perhaps Glint (the author of said prophecies, right?) was also in on it... Anyway, we all know the plot makes no sense :P 148.177.129.213 00:23, 30 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Umm, given the rampage that they went on through the Maguuma Jungle and openly showing themsleves in the Southern Shiverpeaks.. I'd say there is very little philanthropy involved here. :) --Karlos 08:32, 30 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Surely they were doing that merely to ensure that the Door of Komalie (the end of the world) remained closed? 148.177.129.213 16:56, 3 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * Ummm, ok, you are starting to freak me out! :) Hitler had similar ideas when he purged the world of "lesser creatures"... He too was doing the world a favor. In general, I tend to worry about people who give the world favors that the world did not ask for. For example, the killing of the Lich sealed the Door of Komalie without the need for continual sacrifice. Must have slipped their minds. You forget that the prophecies foretold their own demise as the Seer was so happy to point out. --Karlos 17:20, 3 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * You mentioned Hitler! Doesn't that mean I win the argument? :P Anyway. Did the Mursaat not stop the Charr invasion of Kryta? Did they not keep the Titans out? I remember about the Chosen vs. Mursaat prophecy now. The prophecy spoken by Glint. Who is allied to the race of the Seer. Who are at war with the Mursaat. Therefore, from the Mursaat's point of view surely they were just practicing pre-emptive defence by trying to eliminate the cause of the their own demise? Whilst also keeping the world fairly safe.. I guess the real problem is that as a Chosen one your own faction is not clearly defined: are we meant to be religious zealots following the old gods? Or tools of Glint? Or merely lost Ascalonians trying to fend off injustice and the Charr? 148.177.129.213 18:50, 3 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Those are all very deep existential questions! But your argument is still flawed. The Titans were sealed by some greater magic than theirs. Because the Titans were sealed LONG before the Charr invasion. i.e. humanity (mankind, the greater good, ..., etc) did not NEED the Mursaat to be slaughtering people at bloodstones to keep the Titans locked up. They were already locked up. The door was closed (as the dwarf in Ring of Fire says) to keep someone OUT, not IN.
 * They did save Kryta from the Charr, but that was for their own purposes. They did not try to save Ascalon or Orr. And after "saving" Kryta, they took over Kryta. Doesn't sound to me like saving. And I am pretty sure we will find out that the Charr were also operated by a greater malevolent force.
 * I agree about the Seers and Glint. No one knows where they stand to begin with. I was the first to note that in the Eidolon article. :) --Karlos 19:52, 3 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * I'll concede you're probably right. I didn't remember the dwarf saying that - I'll have to go speak to him again. Also, massively off-topic but: "And after "saving" Kryta, they took over Kryta. Doesn't sound to me like saving". Anyone want to draw the obvious modern day parallel? 148.177.129.213 16:26, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * Not on a Guild Wars wiki site, no. --Serps 16:45, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * As far as I know, the boss names "W the Incoherent," "Condolezza the Unpleasant," "Rummy the Indignant," and "Rove the Malignant" are not Mursaat boss names in the game, yet. :) --Karlos 16:42, 4 Oct 2005 (EST)


 * Ooh, those are good ideas for a Humor page, thanks Karlos :) Entropy 17:52, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I have a therey about the Mursaat. If they were trying to keep the titans IN, and the titans were servants of Abaddon, then wouldnt they be AGAINS'T Abaddon? Think about it, they want to keep the titans IN the Realm of Torment. We want to get the titans OUT. So that means that we work with Abaddon at one point in the Prophosies campaign. I would love it if in Nightfall, they gave a Mursaat NPC/quest giver. That would be so awesome. Runar Funtime


 * I agree to some extent. Yes, the Mursaat are obviously anti-Titan, and therefore against Abaddon. Also, heavy Mursaat instalations on the Ring of Fire support that they are against the Titans. But, we're not pro-Abaddon. Glint made the prophecy, and she seemed enthusiastic about helping you. So can you say Glint is for Abaddon? But also the Shining Blade aren't bad, they did control Lion's Arch in the end. I would have to say there are 3 groups of people. Those for the Titians, Charr, Vizer, and possibly Glint, those against the titans, the Mursaat and the White Mantle (depending on what they know), and those stuck in the middle which would be us and the Shining Blade. In the end the Mursaat and the Titans kill eachother off and we're left in the aftermath. P.S. I don't thick Glint is for the Titans, she does tell you to kill them.--Wakleon 06:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Bosses AL
Anyone has any clues on the Mursaat Bosses AL. Against Ele dmg they have a ridiculously high AL (MS does 21 instead of 119 or so). This is not true of all other bosses of the same level, but is true of all professions for their bosses. (So, it's not a skill that some use, though the mesmer bosses suffer slightly more damage for using Physical Resistence). --Karlos 04:10, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * 14 air magic lightning orb does 19 vs mesmer boss.. ow Skuld  04:16, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

They have a nice Element Defense, but as for physical... Bleh, they easily took some 100 from a single power shot without a sundering bow, So I'd guess they have high AL against elements, but low VS physical. Slvrwolf 05:25, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Connection?
Could they possibly hold some type of connection to Margonites? They seem to battle very similarly and even make some of the same noises (grunts and what-have-you) and I'm pretty sure the lore says something about them worshipping a god or something or other? Maybe they're the living descendants of the Margonites? EDIT: I find it suspcious that nothing tells of their origin except the seer who looks like a deformed version of the Mursaat and they just so happen to be concentrated in/around Abaddon's Mouth. Coincidence? I'm not so sure. — Jyro X 04:15, 5 December 2006 (CST)

This has already been stated multiple times, and on the notes section of this article. And, the margonites are "living" too.--68.192.188.142 17:44, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Unnecessary Connections: I find this, and the note in the article in particular to be needlessly confusing. I went on a wild goose chase trying to figure out why or how they were connected and it just lead to more confusion and more inconsistencies...So I want to drop in a bunch of other Evidence if that's ok(I tend towards leaps and brevity so please feel free to Edit this or add to it)

Unseen != Titans: #1> The creatures who appeared to the Charr are obviously false gods, even a weakened God that is a true god is atleast level 30, and much larger. #2> The Margonites resemble 1 of the Charr Effigies much closer than the Mursaat depicted here. The Mursaat's "Feather Aura" is an Equidistant array, while a Margonite resembles a Shiva or various Crustaciens all in theme with the Water/Knowledge God that forged them.

Preserving History: #3> Mursaat went to great lengths to keep secrets and keep the Titans sealed away. ...While the agents of Abaddon and the Lich went to great lengths to Unseal things... #4>In the great Cataclysm, Vizier Khilbron was guided by an unnamed force; but undoubtedly it was an agent of Abaddon no less just like the Fortune-Teller/Demon who misguided Shiro into destroying his own Emperor/Kingdom.

Motives: #5 And since the Vizier IS the Lich, It also connects the Motivations behind the Orr, Charr, and Margonites as one in the same. ...#6> Forcing the Unseen and the Snakes to be unaffiliated or in conflict with that of the Abbadon agents. Lionsguard and Shining-blade "Insurgents" aside, the Mursaat's goals are clearly more noble than that of the great Demonic-Conspiracy to release the 6th God.

My Theory: Given all this... I would like to put forth the Theory, that the Titans were the Human Profits(Elementalists) of Abbadon when he was originally acting as THE God who was handing out Magic all willy-nilly which eventually lead to the first Guildwars and their solution: the Blood-Stoning. I submit that not only were the Bloodstones sealed away in the Ring of Fire, but so were the most powerful Mages who had controlled all 4 types of Magic.

Eventually, they will no doubt coalesce with Orr/Demon forces to recombine/unseal the Bloodstones but they might need the Blood of a Supreme King to do that. While the Mursaat are charged with the Task of destroying all those who would-be-King, especially our Player-Characters. --ilr

I'm guessing that they just re-used some graphics. Runar Funtime

My Theory: Mursaat fight the titans right? Titans server Abaddon. So Mursaat Ether follow another god, the 5 gods, or just themselves. They tried to keep the so called Heros of Ascalon from unleashing Abaddon and his minions, if you think about the Domain of Aungish quests the other side of Door of Komaile ( might be spelled worng) is in the realm of Abaddon and his followers. So the mursaat are not as bad as people say they are. They will probly be allies in chapter 4 IMO. Killer of good 17:37, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I beleive I said that in the section above.--Runar Funtime 23:38, 8 January 2007 (CST)

Several facts point to a connection between the Mursaat and Abaddon:
 * 1. Their creatures resemble Abaddon.
 * 2. Not only did they know of him and the realm beyond the Door of Komalie, they must have known the time of his return is approaching. The Mursaat are probably around a while longer but they have only quite recently begun to worry about the Prophecie's fulfillment. Note that their involvement into human affairs and hunting of the Chosen started less than a human lifetime ago. Before d'Alessio, they didn't seem to be worried much about the Chosen. The Mursaat probably noted the Charr invasion and realised which masters the Charr serve.
 * 3. Why were the Mursaat involved anyway? The Flameseeker Prophecies surely didn't just say "...and the Door of Komalie will be opened leading to the doom of 'insert Tyrian race here'. I think the is a reason why Glint explicitely foretold the doom of the Mursaat and the Mursaat surely had reason to fear being addressed by the Prophecies. The Mursaat didn't just assume that the Titans being released would mean lots of trouble to anyone around. The Mursaat expected that the servants of Abaddon would come after them directly. And that is what they must have done, because the Mursaat apparently were wiped out (or close to) while other races survived the Titan onslaught.
 * All this points toward the Mursaat having some privat issues with Abaddon. A.Saturnus 13:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Has anyone considered the possibility that the mursaat were created by the 5 gods after the fall of abaddon and the margonites as a guard again his return. This would offer an explanation as to why they are so determined to guard the door of komalie against all-comers, after all, tyria would have been better of if you never made it there alive and a load of people's souls wernt sucked in to form new titans. Also, the killing of the chosen seems the lesser of two evils if it is necessary to keep the titans locked away. However a quest in eye of the north suggest that the Mursaat are simply evil and self-interested so perhaps there is no great connection. It seems likely to me that Anet didn't bother thinking up any complex lore behind them, but just dumped them in the game as generic enemies. --Cobalt | Talk  18:03, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If they were created by the 5 old gods, why would they make people think THEY are gods? And from what we've seen sofar from the gods I highly doubt that they would accept slaughter of innocents to imprison Abbadon.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png]]El_Nazgir 20:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would the Mursaat being evil and self-interested speak against a connection to Abaddon? In fact, it would fit in with the Mursaat being ex-followers of Abaddon, as indicated by the resemblance of their creatures with their ex-god. A.Saturnus 13:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The fact that they opposed the opening of the door of komalie, which provided Abaddon with great benefit, speaks against a connection with Abaddon, however i agree it is possible that they are ex-followers (something i hadn't thought of), which would be consistent with the small resemblances between them and margonites. As for the reason for convincing people they are gods...perhaps they needed human followers to meet their ends...maybe the 5 gods didnt want the existence of the mursaat known, because that could lead to knowledge of the existence of abbadon, so they allowed them to convince the white mantle they were gods and operate through humans. And i think the 5 gods would be perfectly happy with the slaughter of innocents, considering they created the realm of torment and allowed innocents to end up there. Any god who creates an ethereal torture chamber for the purposes of inflicting eternal agony on his opponents is unlikely to have any ethical problems with a few deaths --Cobalt | Talk  17:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Wasn't the reason that the innocent wound op in the realm of torment that they had been "infected" or something with Abbadon, like Kormir and the victims of Orr? And wasn't that to prevent Abbadon from broadening his grasp on the "real" world? And the reason that the realm of torment looks like that (and is called like that and has all those nasty effects) is most likely because of Abbadon corrupting it. Didn't one of the forgotten there say something about it being their fortress or something to keep abbadon in? Anyway, I already wrote my theory about the Mursaat at the "own side" thingy under this. but I guess we'll have to wait for GW2 to get any real awnsers.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png]]El_Nazgir 13:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Dwellings
Wait, what? An anon just added this: "The Mursaat have confirmed dwellings or possibly forts on the ring of fire built from the same substance the jade are." They have outposts/forts, but how do we know its the same substance? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 11:38, 16 December 2006 (CST)

By the color, shine, similar shapes and the fact that they are both of Mursaat orgin.--TheDrifter 19:46, 21 January 2007 (CST)

The Mursaat are their own 'Side'
There's a lot of discussion on where the Mursaat fit into the puzzle. But I think people are trying to hard to figure out where they stand. The fundamental reason is linked to the Flameseeker Prophecies. Glint and the Seers are the only non-divine and non-human entities that take a course which only leads to humanity's boon, so perhaps they are in league. This would fit with the principle of Glint acting on the behalf of The Five True Gods, because they don't like to intervene directly, and Glint is only slightly more direct. When looking at the Lich, Titans, and Mursaat though, it becomes complicated. The Lich is initially purely after his own power, and he sees the titans as a means to this end. It's obvious he did not know the full extent of the Flameseeker Prophecies, else he'd have understood the futility of his efforts. It's not a far cry to say that no one else knew the entirety save The Five, Glint, and perhaps the Forgotten and the Seers. The Lich, like Shiro, probably only serves Abbadon in the long run because he's out of options and his own private bid has failed. The Mursaat most assuredly do not follow The Five, especially if they're passing themselves off as divine entities. They probably only know of the first part of the Flameseeker Prophecies, which they seek to avoid by killing the Chosen. It has naught to do with keeping closed the Door to Komalie, it has all to do with not being slaughtered. The problem is we're not given a clue as to their ultimate aims, but the point of the Flameseeker Prophecies is to be self-fulfilling. If the prophecies were never written, the Mursaat wouldn't have slaughtered countless Chosen. If that hadn't occurred, the Ascalonian Chosen wouldn't have cut them down in turn. The Mursaat are not allied with any other faction, and likely just trying to save their own hides in the only way they think they can.

just a hunch, but perhaps the mursaat will turn out to be allies? the same happened witht he shining blade, doing the enemy/ally switch. The murssat oppose the titans, the titans seem to serve abbadon, so maby the murssat will join against the titans? It also explains why they interfered with the invasion of kryta by the charr - who serve the titans - they dont want the titans to get closer to komalie via the charr.

The biggest mystery to me is this: The Mursaat were supposedly killing Chosen in order to power the Soul Batteries that keep the Door of Komalie closed. Now that that's no longer happening, just what is keeping the Door closed now? :P As for the rest, it's prety clear the Mursaat are indeed neutral in the sense that they aren't aligned with Abbadon OR The Five. They certainly aren't benevolent, only self-interested. Now what the Seers are up to is anyone's guess... Arshay Duskbrow 23:32, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

I think the Seers were feeling left out so they decided to help the chosen. This would explain why we don't get a good explanation of thier motives. It's because they are just random Tarak Jiros

Ok, the Mursaat are a "neutral side", but they at least have some bond with abbadon, proven by the fact that they (the spellcasters) look practically the same as Margonite Warlocks, and the Jade's faces resemble that of Abbadon. My theory is that they were created by Abbadon (probably while still the god of water), but that they revolted, and went to live their own life, not wanting to be connected to any god, and act as gods themselves later at kryta. They found out a part of the flameseeker prophecies somehow, and as they knew of abbadon, they probably knew that it were the titans that where sealed behind the doors of komalie. Scared of their former master and his more powerfull minions (and well aware of the part of the prophecy that said it would be their doom), they tried to keep the door closed no matter what the price. This price was the lives of the chosen ones, and those of everyone else who tried to stop them in their (now quoting Darwin) "struggle for life". So I pretty much doubt that they'll be allies in GWEN if there is no direct threat to themselves, or if they can't get any profit from it. Besides, we (at least, I don't) have absolutely no idea whether all of the mursaat where destroyed by the titans, or if they still have outposts or fortresses in Tyria. They are, as far as I know, not mentioned in either of the 2 other campaigns.

I have no idea where the Seers fit in, though. Maybe they're just agents of the 5 old gods trying to erase all tracks from abbadon from the world? If I recall correctly, the one in the Iron Mines of Moladune said (in the cutscene) that his race has been waging war against the Mursaat for a long time.

Anyway, my conclusion of the Mursaat is that they are selfish basterds who care for nothing but their own lives. --El Nazgir 14:04, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

the door of komiliee was shut at the conclution of prop, they were locked in the foundry of failed creations. which is bassicly a max security person so the mursatt just kind of wander around killing things... cause they can142.161.117.6 04:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Asura Could Summon Mursaats?!..
....Is it means that no more tales of Mursaats in GWEN? Or it explain the source of Mursaats? They're created by Asura? How about the war between The Seers and Mursaat? There are many enigma about Mursaat ..about Seer ....And it seems ANET dont want explain those. ANET just give those little Asura whos never heared in Prophecies & Factions...a ability to summon a strong magic race that maybe beyond their power? It's really upset to someone like me who want to know more tale about Mursaats and Seers.--Ceylon Tea Cat 22:24, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * They can summon Ice Imps, Naga, and Djinn too. Let's not jump to conclusions and wait until GW:EN comes out. --24.249.155.42 22:29, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Im sure I heard somewhere thst GWEN is for high levelled players so maybe the mursaat will be put in there as guys to beat up like gargoyles or grawl doing nothing to advance the story but featuring in quests. Or maybe it turns out the mursaat are just stupid and thats why they gave the chosen a reason to kill them. Or maybe the Asura are theyre masters as well as the other stuff they summon and they sent them to theyre destruction cause they wanted something interesting to watch before GWEN comes out.Tarak Jiros

Ha, I'm going as far as saying the Asura CREATED the Mursaat! I mean, the hints are all there. Rata Sum is a agranam of Mursaat. They can Summon Mursaat. And they got a Polymock Peice Mursaat. Heh, I think they made 'em. Probably some ancient experimenter made 'em and how to do so was lost to the ages...

Go ahead, call me a idiot. :P Luke Danger 01:29, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah. they must have created naga, imps, and djinn too while they were at it! wait. no --134.53.176.186 01:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe they have allies among the Djinn, Naga, Imps to call upon? Luke Danger 15:22, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Well I'll be damned, read a article below, and it seems mabye the Asura found a few (weaker) Mursaat willing to help them? Most likly these were survivors looking for allies, and the Asura didn't kill on sight, so they became allies.

Bet the same thing with the Naga and Djnn, the imps being domesticated. Luke Danger 15:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Word "Summon" doesn't mean the same as to bind or to slave. Summon means to call upon something. You can summon a greater force to aid you. If you summon your mate to fight, does it mean that you chain and whip him and put him repeat "Yes master"?

Asura appear to be smart. But as far as I know they create robots, and no living or divine beings. They are no creators. I believe Rata Sum was the hidden city of the Ullen River. I guess the asura just turned up in Rata Sum during some earthquakes and established there. However, the architecture is also in Vlox' Falls. But Rata Sum is very gold and yellow, just as the Mursaat. I mean, why should the Asura create a creature and let it go to the Fire Islands? Maybe they were interested in the history of their new residance, and discovered it was inhabited by the Mursaat before.

Great Destroyer?
So far we've had to labor under the idea that the Mursaat were either somehow related to Abaddon/the Margonites or with no one in particular. However, with GW:EN it seems like we may have an option C to consider. The Great Dwarf is separate from the 5 True Gods and seems have pursued goals completely apart from any of their schemes. It seems logical that his greatest nemesis, the Great Destroyer, would likewise be separate from any schemes relating to the currently known power structures. As I can't exactly see Abaddon or the Destroyer sharing well with others, it's possible that the Mursaat would have been opposed to the Titans as competition for their own master's rise to dominance. Also, the Mursaat seemed to have no real reason to enter the Southern Shiverpeaks after almost totally destroying the Shining Blade except to go after the Dwarves - who, as children of the Great Dwarf, would have really pissed the Destroyer's minions off. It could also explain some connection with the Asura, as it's the Destoyer's servants who are running them out of their caves. The skill Summon Mursaat could represent a way of fighting fire with fire...but I think it's just something from Polymock. Chaosgyro 17:20, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
 * So.....do they actually appear in GWEN's storyline or are they just in polymock. 222.153.224.205 17:35, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * They don't swear to any god and its even stated that they might think themselves divine. I think yet again they are another side that has selfish motives and uses thw white mantle to accomplish them. They were supposed to be in the southern shiverpeaks for another bloodstone (prolly the one in gwen) and were described as amassing their forces and chasing the shining blade survivors. They would happily kill stone summit who worship the great destroyer.

There are quests in GWEN which explain a bit more about the Mursaat here, http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462810

Userbox
I got inspired and made a userbox (my very first):

You can add it to your userpage if you like it.--El Nazgir 21:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)