Talk:Flare

I disagree that it can be replaced by better skills. Every skill is supposed to be equal, and I think Anet is doing a pretty good job there. Only exeption is Peace and Harmony xD.
 * Every skill is decidedly NOT equal. Sorry, that's just a known fact. --Theonemephisto 16:21, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
 * it's a great way to burn energy that could be used for something else. a wand attack is only 60% less damaging, and costs 100% less energy. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:38, 13 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Can someone make a chart of damage comparison against conjure fire? I'm pretty sure before the update Conjure fire did more damage over time though. Maybe now you could use this for the Machine Gunner build. For kicks. Silk Weaker 07:51, 14 August 2006 (CDT)


 * This skill is not as bad as everyone says it is. Yes sarah, you are right that it just wastes energy for other things to use, but it is a great spamable skill.  if you have +4 energy regen, you can constantly spam this without having to wait for energy to regen, while at the same time, cast other spells.  Just my input on the common "noob" issue of flare. -- Fiz [[image:QuestIconThumb.png]] 03:01, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * with an attunement or two you can spam an echoed fireball for the same net cost. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 03:05, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
 * This is your Bread and Butter skill for Attunement nukers, With Both Fire Attunement and Elemental Attunement you have a 80% energy Return, This plus regen gives you free fire magic spells, the basic idea is to spam your fire spells then pelt them with Flare till annother more powerfull skill recharges. In reality Flare Is the highest Damage per second Skill in the game.

Except for whacking a guy with an axe without using any skills, you mean? --Silk Weaker 05:23, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It's true! Any warrior just standing there pretty much already out-damages Flare. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 23:18, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Actualy Since the axe's attack speed is 1.33 seconds and the flare is only 1 second, Flare Overpowers the Axe easy.
 * Flare deals 48 at 12 fire. Axes deal 28 dmg with 12 strength that gives it 12% dmg penetration. That means 3.36 of the 28 dmg is direct. So After 30 seconds Flare deals 1440 Fire damage while an axe would deal 631.57 Damage total. 555.78 Armor aplying Damage 75.78 Armor ignoreing damage. ~ Zero rogue x 23:43, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Except that you can only cast flare every 1.75s. --Fyren 23:58, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Have a look here Why Nuking Sucks for reasons why Flare is not as good as a Warrior blindly swinging. 220.233.103.77 00:10, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Take a look at the damage article, please. Strength only applies to attack skills. You get no Strength penetration for just swinging your sword/axe/hammer/whatever at a foe. You do, however, get bonus damage from a high weapon stat (all things being equal and ignoring critical hits, a character with 16 Swordsmanship definitely does a few more points of damage per hit than a character with 12). A warrior is not just doing base damage when he attacks with his weapon. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 21:25, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Arc
See Talk:Flare/arc. I made two animated GIFs, one of flare's arc and one of fireball's. I did not move the camera or my character between castings. The arc is the same. --Fyren 00:29, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * The graphical Arc is the same because of It being the same animation. HOWEVER the physical arc is diffrent. As you can see in my Pictures (see Talk:Flare/arc) I shot a flare and it hit but the fireball was blocked. ~ Zero rogue x 05:00, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

It has been several days Since I responded. I am asumeing the disagreemnet is over. ~ Zero rogue x 21:44, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'd not say that the arc itself is higher, based on fyren's shots, but I would mention that flare... er... dodges the ground? I've seen flare go through objects before (like during AB's it would go through the bottom of a bridge to hit the target standing above) so it may just be a flaw in the travel path. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 21:51, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Ive seen Fireballs do the same thing. The hight error affects all projectiles. Physicaly Everything is the same hight unless otherwise specified. thats why You can hit someone above you with a melee attack, even though they may be several feet above you, as long as they are in the melee range horizontaly, it doesnt matter verticaly. ~ Zero rogue x 21:59, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I forgot about this. Until someone can come up with another explanation, this is settled.  However, the visual arc does in some way correspond to the real arc.  If it were just animation then all bows would look like they have the same arc and water trident would look like it has the same arc as flare.  --Fyren 22:05, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Those arent animations Those are real objects moveing to the target. They are a diffrent form of animation. I am going to have to check the flare animation to see if it really does change when your target is closer than normal. ~ Zero rogue x 22:16, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * So flare and fireball aren't real objects moving to the target. --Fyren 23:06, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Thats not really known Anet did it either two ways, Either They set it so theres was an invisible object that moves to the target(and the animation follows the object) Or the animation is premade and set accordingly when the skill is used. Either are possible, however we cant know unless anet wants to fill that in. Arrows and the Water Trident however are actual models, We can tell since they change how they look when the camera moves. they arent just FX like the Flare is. I think I better clear up what a model and a fx are to those reading this who dont know these terms. a Model is a 3 Dimential object inside of guild wars capable of being seen from all angles, However a FX is a flat 2 Dimential Object that only looks 3d because it is always faceing the camera. One example of FX i can think of is the candels in the Hall of the dead guild hall. They look 3d however if you turn your camera to overhead your character you can clerly see their 2d.~ Zero rogue x 23:21, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * o.O Flare is a projectile, and acts much like an arrow does. It can be dodged and obstructed, just like arrows, and the damage appears when flare hits, not before it (or something... it was kind of hard to follow you). And if, as you say, Water Trident acts as an arrow, all the more reason flare does too. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 02:22, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Ok since were really diveing into things unanswerable by any of us im going to change the note to what we do know. that Flare can hit things that fireball cant. If anyone else wants to extend the research feel free. ~ Zero rogue x 03:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I was going to find somewhere with a low overhang to see if instead fireball would hit where flare was obstructed... but I'm lazy. --Fyren 03:55, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Heh same here. I know theres something diffrent with flare to fireball but I have no time to actuly study it. ~ Zero rogue x 21:50, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Not that my two cents are needed, but Siege Wurm seems to be bugged. You do not attack the main body of the wurm, but a small portion at its very bottom. Playing thru the Crystal Desert missions numerous times confirmed this for me. If you could get a different example of this without it being a wurm, then you will either prove or disprove my theory. --Lurio [[Image:Elementalist-icon-small.png]]mystras 22:00, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

Casting Time
I would like to reiterate the comment made by Fyren (10 October 2006). The documented casting time of Flare is 1 second. However a quick test reveals the actual time is 1.75 seconds. This is a BIG difference. A 1 second cast time with 50 damage per cast will deal 500 damage in 10 seconds. But in reality you will get at most 6 casts in 10 seconds for 300 damage.


 * Erm, how's that? Explain please... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:43, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * They are factoring in aftercast delay, which is not part of casting time at all. --220.233.103.77 02:49, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * I thought Aftercast Delay only applied to spells like Aftershock and Frozen Burst...? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:44, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * In general, all non-attacks have an aftercast of 0.75 seconds. Most Point Blank AoE have 1.75 seconds. The exceptions are listed at Aftercast delay. --220.233.103.77 04:02, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm after tossing around some Flares in-game, I get what it means now. Odd that I never noticed it before. I am wondering, how many damage calculations have been done using 0 aftercast, and how many with .75? And for all those other skills with funny aftercasts...food for thought. "Why Nuking Sucks" starts to make more sense now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:06, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * I know what the article on aftercast says, but I know from experience and testing that this must not apply to no recharge spells such as Flare and its other elemental equivalents. If you repeatedly click the skill, IT WILL fire one flare every second. Try a Me/E with high Fast Casting (for 1/2 s cast), and you will fire two every second. Actually TIME how many shots you get in. Oh, and if you add two 20% halves casting mods to your fire staff, and you will notice that it will occasionally result in a 1/4s cast, and if you are spamming flare, your character will only lower his/her wand very slightly in this instance, as the spell is fired in such quick succession. If there were aftercast on it, as you suggest, then even at 1/4s cast it should result in an overall cast rate of only 1 flare per second. But this is NOT the case. Bottom line: Flare, Stone Daggers, and Ice Spear have no aftercast whatsoever. --Lord Carnage 00:20, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Just logged in to test whether or not what you said was true, and I can definately say that there is aftercast on Flare. It is definately taking more than 8 seconds to take down a Suit of 60 Armor. --Kale Ironfist 00:45, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Okay, just what are you talking about? I'm talking # of shots within a timeframe, not whether or not you can kill within a timeframe. Very well, if you cannot take the effort to take out a stopwatch, then I will. BRB in a few minutes to post the results. --Lord Carnage 14:03, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Alright, I tried it now, and on an Elementalist, I could only get 6 shots in 10 seconds, so there is an aftercast. Then I tried it on a mesmer with 16 fast casting and got only 9 shots in. However, if I added the 20% halves casting mod, then it seemed to ignore the aftercast once the casting time was brought to 1/4s. It would immediately fire the next spell, regardless of aftercast when this happened. Perhaps this is true only of 1/4 s casts, or perhaps only of when your halves casting mod kicks in then it inores aftercast, or maybe this is just an exception... I don't know. Anyway, you are right, there is an aftercast, but it can be avoided. --Lord Carnage 14:18, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

There is definitely aftercast in all cases. With 16 fast casting and a 20% HCT mod, when you get the fast cast it's very easy to see there's still aftercast. If you're testing alone, it's easiest to see that you can't move even though you've shot your flare. If you have someone else doing the casting, you can see that the casting bar doesn't reset/start going up again immediately upon completion. --Fyren 04:25, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

Pre-searing
Is there a way to get flare pre-searing if you are not an ele primary?
 * No, dosn't look like it, but check out Getting started (Prophecies) RT | Talk  07:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Variations
So we all know that Fire, Water, and Earth Magics have uberspam spells, but how much longer until Air Magic gets one?Kaze
 * Shock Arrow USED to be close to this, but not any more --Gimmethegepgun 00:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I remember the old Shock Arrow... I want that one back. Either that, or chance another projectile spell into a spam spell. Altho technically, Shock Arrow did have a recharge while this didn't but who's counting that 1 second besides me?[[Image:H.K.jpg|19px]]Kaze
 * I think something better to do is give Ice Spear the buff that it SHOULD HAVE gotten when Flare and Daggers got a buff. Before it had a short range but it had a much better high-end damage than Flare, but since Flare got buffed and Spear got ignored, it's basically Flare with a lower low-end, barely higher high-end, half ranged, and on a worse damaging attribute --Gimmethegepgun 03:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Pfft, anyone who uses these uberspam skills should be forcibly removed from the game, they only exist for monsters to use, so that they aren't too tough to kill.--Cobalt | Talk  11:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to correct yu on things yu think yu kno, but there's hardly any truth in that statement. Ice Spear in particular is useful because most damage dealing Water Magic spells are either too costly to spam [i.e. Icy Prism], are non spammable due to recharge [i.e. Ice Spikes], both [i.e. Deep Freeze], or elite [i.e. Shatterstone]. These spells are here so yu don't have to wand the opponent while the bigger spells are recharging.[[Image:H.K.jpg|19px]]<font color="Green">Kaze 02:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Water magic is not designed for damage, it is designed for snaring. Spammable spells dont do much (if any) more damage than a normal hit with a martial weapon (without using a skill).--<font color="Blue">Cobalt </B>| <font color="Green">Talk</B>  10:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It still deserved a damage buff when both Flare and Stone Daggers got it, and it was left neglected --Gimmethegepgun 03:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Even though Water Magic isn't designed for damage, there are still people who use it for damage. [I'm an Air user myself but I kno Water users.] And since this is Flare's talk page I'll give an example for that. I've seen many MANY Elementalists [including one of my own Fire builds] in RA, TA, AB, and CM carry Flare because it's more overall DPS than wanding while their long recharging nuke spells recharge. I've even seen some ele's shoot off Flare over 50% of their casts because their bar was loaded with nukes with ~30~ second recharges.[[Image:H.K.jpg|19px]]<font color="Green">Kaze 01:46, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Buff
this needs a buff tag, cast time to 1/4, recharge to 8 sec imo... -- Wuhy 08:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Why? This skill is good at what it's supposed to do, and what ANet intended it for. King Neoterikos 08:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That would be a most interesting buff. 6 Eles using Rodgort's Invocation and followup with Flare. Spam Searing Heat and Teinai's Heat inbetween and roll shit on Burning Isle/Heroes' Ascent. It'd need a nerf :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  09:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fire needs to do half damage in PvP already. Any buffs should be PvE only. - Auron 10:00, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * coz everyone hates this spammable crap, but with 1/4 cast and 8 recharge it would be more interesting, maybe the projectile should move faster too or idk but this is lame now.. -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]Wuhy 10:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You've got to think carefully before buffing fire skills. Rodgort's is strong already, and the heat skills are pretty ridiculous in HA. Quick follow up skills are just going to make spike builds. Lord of all tyria 10:32, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I.e. what I said :) Sure, you can dodge a projectile. But that's only when not snared/KD'ed/casting. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  11:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * kk, then whats with stg like this: 5e 8 recharge 3/4 cast, even slower projectile than now, 5...50 dmg(1...12), KD if target foe is not moving...maybe usable to KD a war while spiking u or nearby allies... -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]Wuhy 13:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a ranged Bull's Strike swapped around. Way op for 5 energy O_o"


 * Gfg? Or with a hammer, ha ha. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  13:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * k then 10 energy or exhaustion idk idk but make this viable -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]Wuhy 13:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * btw i dont think that would be way op..with a few points in fire it would only do very small dmg unlike bulls strike which kicks in^_^ maybe magehunter's smash->hammer bash->this to rupt woh...idk, just raise recharge to 12 and its fine imo -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]Wuhy 13:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Shock deals pathetic damage on a Shock Axe bar, Exhausts and is touch range, and it's strong. Your Flare wouldn't exhaust, quick cast... Umm wat? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  13:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * but is guaranteed, u just wasted 5 energy using "my" flare if target starts moving -- [[Image:Practiced Stance.jpg | 20px]]Wuhy 13:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Terrible theorycrafting is terrible. - Auron 14:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha indeed... <font face = "Matura MT Script Capitals">Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 16:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)