Talk:Symbiotic Bond

I know it's an odd question, but would anyone be able to figure out the damage TYPE of the Symbiotic Bond damage sent to the pets master?
 * Test 1: R/Mo with Essence Bond, can tell if it's Phy/Ele or untyped. If it is Phy/Ele, then it is should be Physical unless there is a bug.
 * Test 2: If Essence bond triggers, then furthur confirm with Scrimmage fights. One side has warror with Wild Blow, the other side has R/Me loaded with a pet, Greater Conflagration, and several mesmer Mantras. -PanSola, LAFTable (sing) 22:55, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
 * It's not physical or elemental so it must be typeless. I tested with Essence Bond, Physical Resistance, and Elemental Resistance just to be sure. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  23:14, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
 * While Untyped matches my expectation, can you do one more check? Greater Conflag + Mantra of Flame.  Just in case essence bond missed it and it deals armoring ignoring physical. -PanSola, LAFTable (sing) 23:25, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Mantra of Flame didn't trigger. Strange note, however, when the person attacking was in range of greater conflag the damage he delt was still considered physical by Symbiotic Bond (since it was still getting directed to me). [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  23:34, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Oops, I forgot about that part... Hmm, try someone using an elemental weapon, see if it still redirects. -PanSola, LAFTable (sing) 23:39, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
 * That I can't do without some actual help. I've been testing in the Isle of the Nameless with the axe war and my guild was rather unresponsive when I asked if anyone could test with me. IGN's are in my user page if you want to help out with it real quick. I think you can scrimmage with me if I invite you as a guest. If not we'll find out if you can or not. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]] (T/C)  23:43, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

Death From Smoochie
I love pets and pet builds but never have I been able to make Symbiotic Bond work for me. Humor me for a moment and read the below and see if you can help me in my dilemma.

Lets say I have a pet named Smoochie and Smoochie runs to attack my target while under the influence of Symbiotic Bond and Call of Protection. Suddenly Smoochie is under attack by several enemies and possibly even a few PBAoE's or just random AoE spells like Fire Storm or Lava Font for example, etc. Now Smoochie is doing alright as Smoochie has +3 health regen, 1/2 of all damage is redirected to me, and has damage reduction. Therein lies my problem though. I may use Troll Unguent to try and offset the damage coming in from Smoochie's shout effects but I often find them too much and end up dead (which then Smoochie is quick to follow without halving the damage anymore). Now without constantly casting Troll Unguent 24/7 or overflowing my skillbar with healing skills for myself how do I avoid Death from Smoochie? Sure Predatory Bond helps, sure Troll Unguent helps but I find I still have to constantly spam healing skills for myself in order to attempt to survive which then means Smoochie and I am no help offensively whatsoever and could've done the same bringing nothing but defensive skills for just myself. Any advice?--  Vallen Frostweaver  15:21, 30 November 2006 (CST)


 * Er... party with someone to heal you? Using Symbiotic Bond means you and your pet as a whole need less healing, which is a very good thing. And how is your pet no use offensively if you're the one healing? Your pet can still attack and you can still use pet attack skills for them while activating healing skills. I don't see the problem here. Capcom 22:15, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * Relying on a healer isn't any kind of answer as that's taking a poor approach IMO. Besides, I've seen many people use SB in solo builds and RA so that would negate that suggestion.  And my point about using SB with little offense is that you then need more healing/defensive skills to offset the damage you receive from SB (which in effect doesn't reduce damage at all and only adds a +3 health regen since it splits damage between 2 sources which is still the same amount of damage total) which doesn't make sense to me.  So how do you survive when you use SB with your pet (without relying on a party healer)?--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  13:36, 11 December 2006 (CST)


 * Oh, you're asking how to SOLO with a pet using SB. Didn't quite realise that's what you were getting at. Troll Unguent and Predatory Bond are usually enough when you're in a party... As for going solo, I don't know what to tell you. I would think taking only half of the damage your pet (who has base 80 defence and reduction from Call of Protection) is taking would be less than if you were by yourself being the target, so I don't see how this is worse... Capcom 17:10, 11 December 2006 (CST)
 * What he's saying is that even in a party full of people, it doesnt make sense to use this skill. What Vallen is asking is if there is any way of combining this skill with others so that it doesnt put a strain on your monk.  Although the damage reduction for your pet is great, the damage  you take is fairly devastating.  It's similar to a monk with low points in protection using lifebond.  I was just clerifying what Vallen said.  I myself do not know how to make this skill work. 68.226.178.120 23:35, 22 December 2006 (CST)
 * Big waste of a skill. You care if your pet dies?  You have the best heal and res in the game backing it up.  And do you really want to be taking damage because of your pet?  This is a bad skill.  PvE, PvP, it doesn't matter; don't use this.  If you want to solo with your pet, use Life Bond instead.  I said it before I'll say it again.  Anet's beastmastery and pet AI designers need to lay off the drugs and alcohol.--Windjammer 22:26, 23 December 2006 (CST)


 * For evolving a Dire Pet, simply put. --Silk Weaker 06:29, 22 January 2007 (CST)
 * Never said I liked the skill and the fact that it lacks a LOT for me is why I was asking. 68.226.178.120 said it very accurately.  It was just that I see so many builds on here that all seem to include SB and it gets nothing but praise when all I see is a headache for my Monk and increased possibility of DP for me.  I go into the TotPK a lot and hate to use a pet for fodder if it can be avoided (blackout ruins my day and a live pet is doing the same job as a minion) but SB in there would kill me almost instantly with all the Lava Fonts, Meteor Showers, and damaging Grasps flying around that I can't get my pet to avoid once he's locked on a target.  I never have found this skill to be very useful and just wanted to know why others do.  Sure it's one way to kinda imitate Life Bond without a Monk secondary but jeez... it hurts.  I'm with Windjammer on this.--[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]]  Vallen Frostweaver  08:01, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Perhaps use Healing Hands or Mark of Protection on yourself? That will save you for a little while... Master Stalfos 20:52, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Forget it, this skill has no use whatsoever. I remember using before we had Pet Panel with Target Lock and the Heel button, and whenever I tried to retreat from a fight, narrow-AI-minded pet would stay and get hit 'till dead, with me dying first. This is still hard to avoid. Even now, it sucks, we have Call of Protection and recently renewed Otyugh's Cry, so pets tank better than some Dervishes and Warriors. And so what if it dies? in PvE there's no DP, so just click good old Comfort Animal (twice for an almost full recovery) and get on it again. SB sucks, no one should use it. Ereanor 13:39, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

If anything needs a LAME tag, it's this. 88.85.130.54 13:32, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Bug
I removed a bug note from an anonymous editor that said the effect would never expire and implied that it showed up on your own status monitor and said it could be ended if doubleclicked. First, I tried it in the isle of the nameless and it expired as expected. I had my pet take damage to make sure even though the effect icon was gone. Second, there's no effect icon on you and nothing implies you can remove it. --Fyren 03:02, 7 May 2007 (CDT)


 * It happens it you lose and restore connection with the server. I am perfectly positive about the icon appearing and the fact that the shout never expires until you leave the area (I am not sure if it ends if you die). Somehow the game loses track of the skill or whatever.
 * http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/1774/gw057dd4.jpg
 * Obviously the pic can't show the unendable effect, but I often play in pure beastmaster and since my connection more or less sucks, it is something I rather often run into. 90.33.177.197 17:55, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Life Bond
Anyone know what will happen if you cast this, then life bond on your pet? Will it be reduced by 100%, or 75%? If 75% then will 50 be from life bond, and it'll be mostly reduced? Or, will Life bond only reduce 25% of the damage, 50% of what's left after Symbiotic, and probably get reduced to 0, while you still take tons of damage from Symbiotic bond? Or does it depend on which you cast first? In any case, your pet will be well protected. Thoughtful 13:37, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * 75%, the older of the two takes effect first. --Fyren 20:40, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Oddly Enough I tried using this one time and it reduced my pets damage to zero, the incoming damage would have to be less than 4 for it to round to zero (if that is how GW rounds it) and I was fighting the Jade Brotherhood knights just outside "Marketplace" in Factions. My pet had no other affects on it, also since I was curious I changed my skills to only symbiotic bond, life bond, and comfort animal and tried again, same result...? Habar414 23:48, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Strange. How much damage were YOU taking? Try with low Protection so it doesn't reduce by enough to make the LB part go to 0 and see if the damage from the 2 is the same (as in, LB damage + LB reduction = SB damage). If they are, then it would seem that it reduces by a raw 50% rather than multiplicatively --Gimmethegepgun 00:35, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

hmm, if I remember correctly I cast Symbiotic Bond first, then Life Bond and this was before symbiotic bond was recast. I was taking an average of 16 damage from Symbiotic Bond and then 0 from Life Bond.

I was wondering where the new [http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Animal_companion#Pets_in_PvE_take_33.25_less_damage_and_deal_33.25_more_damage_in_combat. pets take 33.25%less damage and deal 33.25% more] fits into this, so I went to Ilse of the nameless to test it with the master of spirits.

I knew that the spirit's damage was 19 because of when it hit me, my pet took 3 damage from each attack, so it means that life bond, spirit bond and the pets natural damage reduction all stack multiplicatively (<--spelling?) 19*50%*50%*66%=3.15300... rounds to 3 They end up being an 83.5% damage reduction

As far as the damage you take, it is adviseable to use life bond first, because of it's damage reduction to you, here's an example. Say cast symbiotic bond on your pet and then life bond with 1 in protection prayers, so life bond's damage is reduced by 5. Your pet then takes 19 damage (from say a spirits attack :P) It would be reduced by 83.5% on you pet (to 3ish, rounded to 3)

You would take 50%*66%, or 33%, of 19 from Symbiotic bond, 6.27-->6,

Then you would take (50%*66%)*50%, or 16.5%, of 19 from Life bond, 3.153-->3, then -5, to deal 0

the whole thing together is (19)*33%+((19)*16.5%-5)=6

with it the other way around it's 33%*19=(6.27-->6-5=1)+16.5%*19=(3.153-->3) or ((19)*33%)-5)+((19)*16.5%=4

SO, it's better to have life bond on first to reduce the damage of the 33% instead of the smaller 16.5%

In the end it's pretty much all to say,
 * Your pet takes 83.5%damage
 * You take 33% of your pets damage (-X with life bond cast first)
 * You then take 16.5% of your pets damage (-X with life bond cast second)
 * Or a total of 49.5%-X

It's kinda useful I guess, hope I helped. :D Habar414 16:21, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Icon change?
I've been using this recently, and got used to seeing the icon just beneath my pet control bar. However, some time this afternoon (or coincidentally while changing machines on which to play GW) it moved from below the pet to in my "maintenance" area. No news of an update from ANet. :-s 82.152.221.71 14:26, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * See above. --Fyren 05:18, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Maintained Enchantment
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/Nibelhim/gw164

When disconnected and reconnected, symbiotic bond becomes a maintained enchantment. double clicking it doesn't remove it though. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.70.164.191 (contribs) 18:03, 3 January 2008.
 * That image doesn't appear to exist. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

http://s3.excoboard.com/forums/3531/user/21043/56549.jpg

Try this link.

Hmm... now when you remove it, will you actually stop taking re-directed damage? :o --Relax And Play 00:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Requirement?
Does this skill require you to have a living pet, or even charm animal on your bar at all, in order to work? I'm unable to test atm, but if someone could real quick, that would be splendid. M3atwad 00:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work without a live pet. So you need charm animal with you, and they can't be dead when you apply it. (I didn't test whether it ends when they die) Ezekiel  [Talk]  01:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Damn. Thanks though. M3atwad 05:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Longest Skill
Is the duration of this skill the longest of that in the game (barring maintained enchants?). It lasts nearly 5 minutes at high ranks. Luminarus 12:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "I Am the Strongest!" trumps this, despite the hidden nature of its duration. Lazuli 03:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This skill has the longest reasonable duration (neither infinite nor 10+ hours, which is as good as.) of any skill that I know of.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  03:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Possible Synergy with Healing Seed?
I was just thinking, If you had Healing seed cast on you(most likely by your monk) You could not only counter most of the damage taken from SB but also heal anyone else standing next to you. Honestly it would be a lot more effective then casting it on the Ranger instead of a Warrior because his pet is taking frontline damage while healing the backline.

Skill Change Needed
This skill would be 10x+ more useful if it worked both ways. As in it still has its current function with the addition that damage given to you is redirected to your pet. Making it like you both share one big health bar(would also mean hearty pets would have a use). This would make it far harder to spike down either you or your pet. As it stands now its like cutting half your health bar off and giving it to your pet. A very dangerous thing indeed if you plan on being attacked at all especially since you can simply let your pet die and rez as often as you like with no drawbacks.


 * Might be a bit OP with that, but sounds pretty good. Problem would come along with huge, easy health from Heal as One. Basically you give yourself an extra healthbar, which you can bring back up to 50% whenever it depletes for whatever reason, and when either one goes a little bit low they BOTH get a big chunk of heal --Gimmethegepgun 00:35, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

synergizes well ?
In regard to this line in the article: "Synergizes very well with Otyugh's Cry, as the sharing of damage happens after the armor level of the pet is accounted for but before reduction by Call of Protection, which means the more armor the Pet has, the less damage is transferred to you as a result, and will ignore the effects of Call of Protection entirely..."

All these 3 skills are shouts. Shouts cancel each other out. Check the Shout article: shouts do not stack. Therefore these skills cannot be used in conjunction with each other, and this line in the article should be removed. GW-Dragonrider 20:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It means that the exact same Shouts don't stack together, ie, If you and someone else both use "Watch Yourself!" you only get it on you once, not twice, or not a buffed up version. But if someone uses say, "For Great Justice!" and then "Watch Yourself!" they gain the bonuses of both. Skippster 20:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This is true, in fact, I have used Call of Protection and Symbiotic Bond together many times. King Neoterikos 20:58, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thankyou for clarifying that [i]different[/i] shouts can be stacked, unlike stances. I might add this fact in the Shout page discussion page, if not already mentioned there.GW-Dragonrider 18:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Gaining energy through stacking
The idea is to make yourself take damage twice whenever your pet takes damage once. Of course, you can achieve further gain by casting Essence Bond, but that should be obvious once you thnk about it ;-). --◄mendel► 09:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't think it's obvious that you would prefer life over essence; the only difference is life bond will further reduce your pets damage and redirect to you. For energy purposes though they're interchangeable. However you could then further put essence on yourself and you would gain 3 per hit on your pet. Ezekiel  [Talk]  09:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I was ironic. If you have to think about it to notice something, it's not obvious. Anyway, well clarified, I think the reader who thought that Essence must've been meant understands now. --◄mendel► 09:25, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Essence Bond says: "Damage redirected to you as a result of Life Bond does not count as physical or elemental damage, and therefore will not give you any energy." - because it is untyped damage. So is Symbiotic Bond. But, I'm going to go test it right now anyway. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:11, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just like I thought - Essence Bond doesn't trigger for Symbiotic Bond. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I was assuming Essence would be cast on the pet for the 3 per hit (because if casting it on myself would work as intended, I'd gain 4  per hit total). The obvious things are hard to find out. --◄mendel► 11:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, well that would work, assuming the pet is taking physical/elemental damage. But I'm confused now. Let's just not mention Essence Bond at all. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you used this, Essence, Balth's, and Life Bond, you could maintain Protective Bond :P --Gimmethegepgun 02:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Then with Call of Protection you would have a pet immune to most damage! Ezekiel  [Talk]  02:22, 9 November 2008 (UTC)