User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 3

Welcome to the wiki
Hey Dr ishmael - welcome to the Guild Wiki - Hope you have a lot of fun editing here! Random Time  15:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the welcome! Although, I have been lurking around for a while now, I just haven't made very many edits yet.  I'm supposed to sign my comments, right?  Like this?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the 'Wiki! Yes, you're supposed to sign like that :> Seems you already got the hang of custom signatures. If you ever have questions, just ask away. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Awesomeness
Did you see that in recent changes? How somehow an edit made it between your two moves in the fraction of a second it would've been? That's amaze-tastic. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  18:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I always hide my edits on RC, so no, I didn't notice that. And actually, that's between two deletes, not moves (I did all the moving last night), so there was much more than a fraction of a second between them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:39, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Mea culpa for buggin' ya then, lol. Sigh, it was cool in theory at least. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia   18:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem, I enjoy shooting other people down. It's quite therapeutic. :D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That made my day. --Shadowcrest  02:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I've moved pages before and had rc show that the talk page moved first.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 23:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

copyvio?!?
Mousepointer slipped on the dropdown? --◄mendel► 21:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 18:41 (cur; last) . . Dr ishmael (Talk | contribs) (deleted Sanctum Cay (Mission): Copyright violation: content was: '#REDIRECT Sanctum Cay (mission)' (and the only contributor was 'Dr ishmael'))


 * No, I did that on purpose... to... see if anyone was paying attention. Yeah, that's it. >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It pays to pay attention to chicken army owners. --◄mendel► 22:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

bot
Did you bot change all instances of 'Nolani Academy (Location)' to 'Nolani Academy (location)', even if there was something else in the phrase, like Category:? I think you messed up the categories that had (Location) in them. See Tome Pedestal- it is in Category:Nolani Academy (location), though only exists. --Shadowcrest 01:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The category will need to be changed at a point in the near future anyways for the same reason, so it's a permissable mistake, eh? &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  01:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Though since I don't think the bot is finished, it could save a bit of work in the future. --Shadowcrest  01:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I did realize that, then decided there was no reason to work around it since, like PS said, those categories need to be renamed anyway. I just didn't realize we had any categories like that, otherwise I would've moved them last night.  If you want to go ahead and fix the categories, go ahead - anything ending with (Explorable), (Location), or (Mission).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So, does one fix this by copy/pasting the existing junk into the newer cat? I tried to get crackin' and noticed the disturbing absence of a move button. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  01:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Things added to a category will automatically be placed there, so just copypaste the text in the category to the new title, then flag the old one for deletion --Gimmethegepgun 01:40, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Toasty, thanks, I'll probably get started when American Dad goes off, lol &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  01:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you can't move image pages or category pages in MediaWiki, since moving just the article doesn't move the image file or update the pages in the category. Kind of annoying, but understandable.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Have you thought about grabbing all pages that have (Location) etc. in them from pages_current.xml and fixing them once and for all? --◄mendel► 02:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you'd like to do that (since you seem pretty familiar with the db dumps and I haven't poked around in them yet myself) and post the list here, like you've done for other things, I can take care of them after I finish off the ones I've already moved. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd have to wait for a new dump to come out after you've finished, otherwise the list will just have a lot of pages that you already worked on. The awk script to do it is this:

/ / { 	match($0,/ (.*)<\/title>/,thisTitle); skipme = 0; printme=0; }

skipme && /preserve">#REDIRECT/ { print thisTitle[1] > "redirect.txt" }

skipme {next;} / / {next;}

/\((Mission|Location|Quest)\)[^\.]/ {  print thisTitle[1]; skipme=1;}
 * The skipme makes every article be listed only once. --◄mendel► 09:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Will the bot fix links like House zu Heltzer (Location) -> House zu Heltzer (location) ? I think it will, but I'm having a very stupid day. --Shadowcrest  18:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, it'll get anything - I didn't bother to take the time to write individual find/replace rules for every mission/etc., since, as we've said above, everything that used this naming convention should be lower-cased anyway. I'm planning on cleaning up any splash damage, but you can go ahead and move any pages you see like that - just add them to that bot task so I know about them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * For that one, should just make all those be just plain House zu Heltzer, since that just redirects unnecessarily --Gimmethegepgun 19:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I had to extend the awk script a bit, I edited that above. It now discounts edit summaries (e.g. from page moves), links to images, and finds redirects (but still lists them). The result is on User:Dr ishmael/Caps. The list contains these redirects: Augury Rock (Location) Chahbek Village (Location) Dwayna Vs Grenth (Mission) House zu Heltzer (Location) Jokanur Diggings (Location) Nundu Bay (Mission) Talk:Dwayna Vs Grenth (Mission) Talk:Haiju Lagoon Rift (Mission) Talk:Jokanur Diggings (Location) Talk:The Great Zehtuka(Quest) The Great Zehtuka(Quest) The Tomb of Primeval Kings (Mission) Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Location) --◄mendel► 12:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd tried running that script, but it was returning waaaay too many results, and I don't know anything about awk scripting so I couldn't fix it myself. And of course, I forgot to say anything here.  Thanks for following up on it, though - I'll probably be able to run the bot throughout the day while at work.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * How did you find out we had a new dump? I hadn't even seen it listed on the index. --◄mendel► 13:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh? I just tried running it on the current dump, so I'd understand how it worked. I didn't know there was a new dump, either.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Typical... I can't run AWB because it's blocked by my company's firewall, and said firewall is managed by Windows Group Policy, which means there's not a damn thing I can do about it. I can at least take care of the Category pages.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, my windows firewall has no exception rule for AWB (I run as user), so I think it just uses port 80, via Internet Explorer? --◄mendel► 21:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

We are the language police?
We are not ArenaNet, but we don't allow people to typo now? --◄mendel► 09:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC) (edited 09:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC))
 * 01:32, 14 July 2008 Gimmethegepgun (Talk | contribs) deleted Abbadon's Mouth ‎ (content was: ' #REDIRECT Abaddon's Mouth (mission)')


 * Yeah, and why not? Having typo-redirects available only promotes misspellings within the wiki.  A blue link is assumed to be a "correct" link, so if someone mistypes a mission name and it comes up blue, they don't realize their mistake.  Deleting these redirects will slightly inconvenience people who put a typo in the search box, but at least we can say we're doing them a service by helping them learn to spell it correctly.
 * I can understand keeping typo-redirects in certain cases, like Little Thorn, where the in-game font makes it difficult to tell whether the name ends with "rn" or "m". But "Abbadon" and "Naphui" don't fall under that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And seriously, I thought that was his name for a LONG time (as in from a few months after the game came out until I made that redirect) until I tried to go to his page and found out that was an M not RN :P --Gimmethegepgun 19:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I still to this day call him Little THORN lol. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   I~sk8   (T/C) 19:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) My wife and I debated it for a while too, finally she relented to my logic that naming a character "Thorn" was just ridiculous, and Anet would never do that. Then she got the last laugh at Halloween when we met Mad King Thorn... >.>  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wut i thot he was Mad King Thom.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  19:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, and surprisingly enough, we never had a redirect.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, when the first new editor creates that page, I'll laugh. Wasn't there a list of misspellings that some admin checks on a regular basis? .... Ah, ok, it is Misspellings, and Maui checked it four weeks ago. If we just put Naphui and Abbadon on there and link it to the "what links here" (although the search would probably be enough)? Then we'd be user friendly and fighting for spelling! --◄mendel► 21:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

From GW:REDIRECT:

When to use redirects

In general, the following situations involve a redirect:


 * Abbreviations: GvG & gvg → Guild versus Guild
 * Synonyms: leaver → quitter
 * Common misnomers: Silver Armor → Sliver Armor
 * Colloquialisms: Amnoon Oasis → The Amnoon Oasis
 * Incorrect capitalizations: the fissure of woe → The Fissure of Woe
 * Plurals for stackable items: obsidian shards → Obsidian Shard

...

When not to use redirects

The following sorts of redirects will be speedily deleted (these links are red because the redirects don't exist!):

Unverifiable colloquialisms: Prince of Noobs → Prince Rurik Redirects to user namespace: There should be no redirects from any other namespace over to the user name space. Redirects for capitalization when the article name is only two words or has all words in the same case: Charr carving → Charr Carving; Destructive was glaive → Destructive Was Glaive.

I see no reason to remove those redirects. (T/C) 22:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, they're gone, and noone but me has complained. The point about redirects into userspace is a bit daft where it concerns pages that have been moved from mainspace to userspace - people looking for them will wonder where they went when the redirect is deleted. Can we use a soft redirect? --◄mendel► 22:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

THKP
??? Hmm, it's already the 16th in Europe, so you could just have deleted the thing and be done with it. It's not as if there wasn't a redirect in place for the talk. --◄mendel► 22:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Nundu Bay (Mission) etc.
People have been recreating some of these pages as redirects. I think you were the one who went and removed them all. What are you going to do about it? (T/C) 03:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * On GuildWiki_talk:Community_Portal, Dr Ishmael writes: that one was recreated because the wiki hasn't been re-crawled by Google yet. We shouldn't see any more of these being recreated after a day or two, at which point that one should be redeleted. --◄mendel► 03:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That was the editor's note, yes, that he created it because "this is the page you get from a Google search for Gate of Madness". It shouldn't take more than a couple days for Google's spider-bots to crawl the wiki again and update Google's link cache.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I doubt it'll work, though, as long as the redirect stays up, because the googlebot will still find the content where it was, and tha pagerank of the old URL will be higher - unless it knows about wikis and redirects and crawls them with redirect=no. Plus there's no telling how many forum links etc. we have broken. Lesson: Move redirects are there for a reason... --◄mendel► 09:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But the spider won't even see the redirect page, since nothing else on the wiki links to it. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As long as pages off the wiki link to it, it will. --◄mendel► 13:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

dialogue CSS

 * Done. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's supposed to make the lines of text italicized, rather than bolded as it does now. Bolding the character names is correct.  Quizzical 15:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My test page looks ok. You are supposed to italicize the text yourself, and the CSS will then stop bolding it. It recognizes the text by the italics. --◄mendel► 21:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

RC
Namespace: Dr ishmael -- Invert Selection. Want! --- -- (s)talkpage  16:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * :P Although that would be cool to have my very own namespace... *makes evil plans*  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ya know what, these edits are really simple, I doubt anyone would complain if I did the rest of this work on my bot account. So if you need to contact me urgently for the next few hours, do so here.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Objection! [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

please move bday drop page
I'm no admin, it won't let me move Drop rate/Birthday Present/draft to Drop rate/Birthday Present - that is already moved away and only the redirect left. --◄mendel► 05:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you can only move a page over its own redirect- anything else would need to be deleted. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I went to bed immediately after posting that last night, and finally had a chance to check up on the wiki now. The page has been moved.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I figured as much, it wasn't urgent anyway, under normal circumstances I'd have waited a few days, but since you and others and especially the clown eater had already used the page, I took that as endorsement and wanted to avoid people adding to the old page. --◄mendel► 23:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's definitely better than the old version - I hadn't bothered adding my data for so long because it was so difficult to work with. If there were a way to do something like this for monster drop rate articles, it might help get more people to use them, too.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If we even have a drop rate page, it's barely findable. I've only few times found any drop rate article. How? RC. Ups. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  00:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See Category:Drop rates data. Do a "search" and not a "go" on the thing you need the drop rate page for and it'll show up in the results. --◄mendel► 01:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Also Special:Prefixindex/Drop_rate/, I'm sure there's a few that aren't properly categorized. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The fact remains, they should be easy to find if one exists. A new user "probably" won't Search for Drop Rate, let alone in the Categories namespace (that is not automatically done). And I doubt they know about Prefixindex. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  01:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Go put links to them in the "see also" sections of the entities concerned, no? Where is Blue Rellik when you need him? ;-9 --◄mendel► 01:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * (second edit conflict with mendel in less than 5 minutes) Sounds like someone needs to take the time to properly organize those articles, then.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Go put links to them in the "see also" sections of the entities concerned, no? Where is Blue Rellik when you need him? ;-9 --◄mendel► 01:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't need to search in the category namespace - once you find a single page of teh category, the link is at the bottom. If you want to find out, hmm, what other pages are there about the Gypsie Ettin, you need to "search" and not "go" for the beast - and then you find its drop rate (it is in mainspace). Grant you, that is not for beginners, but it's not that hard, and I wouldn't want beginners to have a go at these tables.
 * I don't see much room for improvement except automatically calculating the percentages from the totals line.
 * Organize: someone with a sense of their purpose, yes. I think they might need some sort of reverse-index system to be useful, or you can't answer questions like "what is most likely to drop dyes" etc. Hard to do, that is. --◄mendel► 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Would an organzied list of all these pages be helpful? I mean, like Drop rate has? --◄mendel► 01:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I went and looked there right after my last comment. The organization in general needs to be overhauled, and we need to make sure all "Drop rate/*" articles are in there.  That's something I could work on later tonight or tomorrow during work.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If they were properly categorized (i.e. cat for drop rate and a cat for region) then DLP could auto-generate the lists... but they aren't, and it's not likely to be worth it doing so. Coffer of Whispers can probably redone with a template similar to the birthday drops. Any other candidates? Oh, and thanks for catching my color screwup which I can only attribute to tiredness. --◄mendel► 10:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

drop category
I have had my script pick out the categories for all artciles with "drop" in the name and reviewed the list. All of the articles that have drop data are in Category:Drop rates data. There are 4 redirects, that is no problem. There are 3 articles with anomalies: I am mentioning this because you said you would look into how these are organized, and I thought you'd be happy to know that the category list is complete. --◄mendel► 19:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Drop rate/Kanaxai chest and Drop rate/Urgoz chest are in Category:Articles to be moved because "this article should be moved as soon as the chest name is determined".
 * Drop rate/Locked Chest/Far Shiverpeaks/Hard Mode cats as Locked Chest (Far Shiverpeaks) and there is no article, so either that has moved to some other name and the subpage didn't, or the page needs to be set up like the others (with tables for normal and hard mode on the same page).

Addendum: I looked for articles with "[Pp]ercentage" in them in mainspace and talkspace and only found To Dye For. --◄mendel► 19:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC) (edited 19:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC))

Closer to the Stars
Actually, Weh no Su is Canthan (?lol idk) for CttStars. So, might need a disambig message, perhaps? But I have, once again, no idea how to word it... --- -- (s)talkpage  01:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Lawl, just saw the edit to the quest page. Just.. ignore this :D --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  01:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * :D &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't ignore this
Volfen Agility and Volfen Pounce are Enchantments. However, Agility does not reflect this. I don't know if the temporary skills are Enchantments, though. Do you know? --- -- (s)talkpage  14:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, you're in Drop Rates Data category, and the Volfen skills have the temporary version in the notes. Should thery be removed? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) The temp Agility is a stance (I'm in-game with the temp blessing right now). I'll correct the permanent version unless you do it first.  I'm in the process of taking care of the temp-version-in-notes.  As for the category... mendel did it. :P &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay then. I'll go back to Diablo II (Diablo? O_o) to blow stuff up, then. Have fun :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  14:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow
That's some impressive failure there, 5 edits to make a comment --Gimmethegepgun 16:30, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I experienced a minute of total suckage there. Think I'll take my frustration out on Mr. Irontoe now... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Deldrimor armor
Good job with the common armor template. But I have a question, is there a policy or re-uploading someone-else's image? I usually try to put the original uploader's name in the log history if I rename an image (and then I have to remove it from the "Summary" to leave it just in the upload log...), but I don't know what the official policy on that is, if any. On that note, how come there isn't a feature to rename or move an image like there is for normal pages? Thx. RoseOfKali 18:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * GW:IMAGE doesn't currently say anything about re-uploading images, and I'm not aware of anything else that would cover it, but I think what you said is the best way to handle it. I did that for the Monument of Honor images, I just didn't think about it this time.  And the lack of a "move image" feature, well, that's just how MediaWiki works currently.  There is an experimental feature being tested for version 1.13 that will allow it, though.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just about to say, that it isn't possible to "move" an image because of the way MediaWiki works atm, but you beat me to it (pointers and etc.). It's true that no policy exists for renaming an image, but generally it's kind if you make an edit summary such as "re-uploading from for better name" or such. This is especially relevant for images that evoke questions (i.e. asking for proof, what color combination, etc.), since if you don't know who uploaded it you don't know who to ask. Finally, it would be a good idea to leave a note on the user's talkpage that you have re-uploaded their image because of such and such, since they may come back and find it gone and be confused. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, if I rename an image, I always make sure to replace all the links to it with the new name, so most people won't notice the change until they recognize the different name or look at the upload log and see the change in uploader credit. I usually try to put a note saying "originally uploaded by User:so-and-so" and then, since it also puts this into the "Summary" for a new image, I have to edit the image and remove this note from the summary.  It's just awkward and I'm hoping the new move/rename image feature will be here soon, this will make things much MUCH easier...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Depends a bit on the license, really; if there is none for the user's work (as it is in screenshots that are a dervative work of Anet art), then we assume the user contribution to be NC-BY-SA, as everything on this wiki, and this means you reupload as you like if you give proper credit, so that's ok. You can also write a redirect from the new name to the old image without a reupload, that works, too. --◄mendel► 22:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Image redirects are unnecessary and confusing, imo. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:58, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, some people get upset when their work is "stolen," even though they released it for free use by publishing it. Giving original uploader credit is just the "nice" thing to do, I guess.  I often don't bother crediting the origial if I'm duplicating it and not deleting the original image, or if it's used as an obvious temporary placeholder.  More "permanent" images and renamings I try to credit.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Giving credit to the original uploader is not merely a courtesy, it's the law. A screenshot, much like a photograph, has been created by the person taking it by choosing a viewpoint, maybe cropping the picture, and though it is in some cases debatable how much of this is craft and how much is artistry, you ought to err on the side of caution. If you consider it art in the loosest sense, then the uploader has, in taking the screenshot, created a derivative work in which he and Anet hold a joint copyright, and while both GFDL and CC BY-NC-SA allow you to reupload the image, they require you to credit the original creator. --◄mendel► 06:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's wonderful, we now have thousands more copyvios...since a lot of times, re-uploaded images will just be summarized by "renamed". :\ It would be nice if licenses were easier to interpet for things like this. Both the "copy-paste archiving is illegal" and now this, are instances where I wish a lawyer could explain who's right. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The nice thing is, like with ANet's copyright in screenshots, it only really matters if the copyright holder decides to pursue his rights. What's really important (in my mind) is to get the license conditions right basically, so that people who wish to reuse the image know where they stand. That doesn't affect screenshots as much as it does the other pictures uploaded from elsewhere on the web. --◄mendel► 06:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's exactly what I was thinking, but I gave up trying to say it after about 5 failed attempts. I really should go to bed... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 06:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, so the current "build" of this wiki doesn't exactly make it easy to follow the law when renaming, does it now? >_< RoseOfKali  06:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's no excuse, and yet...well, going forward with nothing but a hope and a prayer that no-one wishes to pursue their rights is pretty stupid. The chance is really slim, that's true, but..."maybe if I don't think about it, it will never happen..." [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:56, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot task request
Could you please move all the pages currently in Category:Dwarven armor to Category:Deldrimor armor? Jennalee 08:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But that's also an easy way to tell which ones still need template conversion. I'd say don't bot it, do it as you convert them to the correct template.  I tagged all the pages in the Dwarven category, so there aren't that many, just some common armor crafted in the CTC and the pages that have Dwarven as the Art type in the template input for the info box.  That all needs to be changed.  After the main ones are done, then I guess you can bot the sub-pices of the profession Deldrimors armor, since those just plainly say Category:Dwarven armor on the bottom of the page, but not before all else is done.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't bot it right now anyway, got a bug right now where the login form doesn't show up in IE6, and if IE don't work then AWB don't work. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:16, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, I just finished a big rant on the Community portal about how wiki can't seem to be able to read its own cookies. I have it set as my homepage, and every time I open my IE7, it won't sign me in, even though I have it set to sign in automatically.  Because of this, I'm forced to see that Monaco piece of crap.  But beside the point, when I click a few links, it magically makes me signed in again, but pretty much never when I just first open the page...  What is going on?  It's been like that for a few months from what I can remember.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Armor image names
It's true that page names fall under the ULC rules, but image names do not, as far as I know. They just need to be "descriptive." In the main armor art template the word "Armor" is capitalized in all image names, and to keep things consistent, I changed the deldrimor armor template and everything related to it to reflect the uppercase Armor in image names. (Don't kill me...) RoseOfKali  05:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw all the work you did just now to correct that... *I* should be the one asking that you don't kill me. XD  Thanks for fixing it, though.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's ok. :P These things happen in bot-mode. (You also reversed "gray front" to "front gray" in a couple of them. ^_^) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And on top of all the wiki-work I was doing, I was also trying to pay attention to the conversation my wife and her sister were having. I'm surprised I didn't do anything worse, like accidentally swap the male/female images as I re-uploaded them.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:17, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unitasking: Just Say No. Fave T-shirt [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Totally read that as "gay font" and "font gay". Hooray for mental autofill! &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  17:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Having some trouble with the letter 'r' there, are we? ^_^ RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could probably make a really racist Asian joke there, but I won't --Gimmethegepgun 21:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, if that was his problem he'd be reading "glay flont". Which... isn't funny at all, beyond the way it sounds.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Something I would like to discuss
I noticed your changes to the necro Deldrimor crafting qr table, and I guess I would like to discuss with you what would really be the best way to organize them. I don't really like the way they are generally done right now. Talk:Necromancer armor crafting quick reference/Deldrimor - please discuss here. RoseOfKali 19:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

titles
A bunch of titles need ULC relinking. Am I supposed to move them and put them here? --Shadowcrest 20:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Like Gimme said, those are the proper in-game capitalizations. But yes, if you ever need massive relinking for a moved page in the future, add it there - the original name and where it was moved to.  After I bot-relink everything, I'll delete the redirect.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, thanks for the future knowledge and for pointing out my failures once again (as if they haven't been pointed out enough) :P lol --Shadowcrest  21:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I refer you to my second response in the section above. >:D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Or my userpage, where that 1337 quote also resides. --Shadowcrest  21:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, right - I remembered someone saving that to a quotes list, forgot who. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

WHY
WHY is it that for the past 10 minutes I've been able to load an equal number of pages, yet 30 seconds after you ban that guy GWiki returns to a semi normal speed!? --Macros 21:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno, maybe he was somehow pulling 300 pages per minute, hoping the slowdown would prevent us from banning him? Or maybe I'm just awesome. =D  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And ever since I posted that, I've been getting random 1-2 minute intervals of lag and not lag. --Macros 21:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Darn, guess it's not my awesomeness then. I've been getting the same kind of lag spikes all afternoon, actually.  Luckily it wasn't doing that this morning when I was editing all the Deldrimor armor pages.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You stole my monaco sidebar :P (even if i did steal it from may after 3 wrong directions from her)
 * Do you like it? --Shadowcrest  22:05, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The sidebar thing is spiffy, but I'm still not sure if I can adjust to the Monaco skin. Maybe if I see more people do more spiffy things with the sidebar and widgets and stuff, the spiffyness factor might win me over.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * All I need is to figure out how to get rid of the edit tips. And RC is in a different spot than before, which annoys me, but other than that I can deal with monaco. The RC widget is <3. --Shadowcrest  22:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit tips are in Preferences->Editing near the bottom :P --Gimmethegepgun 00:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have "don't show" checked, and the message to put comments at the bottom and to sign my comments is still there :P --Shadowcrest  00:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. .css noob --Gimmethegepgun 00:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that isn't an editing tip - that's the standard block of edit messages that everyone sees on a talk page regardless of skin/preferences/whatever. Specifically, it's stored at MediaWiki:Talkpagetext.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 01:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That one's the one above it, I think he wanted to get rid of the editing notes on the bottom too, and it, now that I look at it again in Firebug, doesn't have an id :/ Can you get HTML elements by class (instead of by id) in .js? --Gimmethegepgun 03:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I did mean the top, though I appreciate your concern. Rest assured that I do not dislike you any longer :P --Shadowcrest  04:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

A watch from your good friends in the Watch
50 gold to whoever gets the reference. I always wondered how deadly you would be if you actually got a giant chicken army... Now I know the answer. VERY.--ìğá†ħŕášħ 11:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * o_o Wow... never in any of me and my friends' idle ramblings did we imagine that my Chicken Army™ would be composed of giant chickens.  That's just too awesome. XD  Quiz and mendel's cards are great, too.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...By the way, someday you ought to tell the whole Chicken Army story. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, Warwick asked about that once and I said I would... Lemme see if I can find any primary source material from those days, prolly still have some fermenting in the back rooms of my old hard drive.
 * And I think I just got the reference in the section title - it's from Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, isn't it? The Ankh-Morpork City "Watch", but I can't remember who they gave that watch too, it's been too long since I read any of those books...  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 03:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I haven't found anything about the chicken army yet, but I did find this, which you people may find amusing. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make much sense to me, but it is amusing anyway. However I should note that despite anything you say, this is a *bad* place to put a copyrighted work since there's nothing any of us can do if someone steals it from here...and anyways, All contributions to GuildWiki are considered to be released under the CC 2.0 by-nc-sa license (see Copyrights for details). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you say who they gave it to, and who's idea it was, I'll gift you an ecto.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 04:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I choose to blame the reference on this, even though it's probably wrong.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  04:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * GOT IT! Men at Arms, page 2: "We are clubbing together to get him a Surprise Present, I thought one of those new Watches that don't need demons to make them go and we could inscribe on the back something like 'A Watch from, your Old Friends in the Watch', this is a pune or Play on Words." --then-Corporal Carrot, in a letter to his parents, about Samuel Vimes leaving the Watch to "get married and Become a Fine Gentleman".  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Bugger, now I have to farm an ecto.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 04:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I needed to take all those books off the shelf and start packing them anyway - my wife and I are buying a house, and we're moving in at the end of the month. I'll probably have to take a long-ish break from the wiki to pack and clean the apartment the week before we move...  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Well blast, I can't find anything that gives a first-hand description of the Chicken Army, so here's what I can remember. I'm pretty sure the general idea got started the same day as I got the nickname "Dr Ishmael" (which I explained here) back in high school, although I can't remember any exact details. I know it was greatly influenced later when my friends and I worked out our Chinese zodiacs: my birth year, 1981, and time, 18:40, both fall under the rooster sign, thus I became associated with chickens, while The Brutish Celt (who wrote that biography above) had monkeys and another friend had rats. Most of them didn't really develop the animal idea much, though, except that the Celt decided he had a few monkey bodyguards. I still have no idea why, but the chickens stuck to me, and then it somehow turned into a whole army, possibly because we had Tyson chicken farms all around my hometown. It quickly became something of a myth among our fellow drama students (yes, I was in drama in high school), and one of them even wrote a story about it wherein I was dubbed "Dr Ishmael, the Chicken King" (that's what I had really hoped to find before). The drama teacher had a tradition where the outgoing seniors would "bequeath" stuff to the juniors, and this "Seniors' Will" would be printed on the back of our drama t-shirts. I, of course, bequeathed the leadership of my chicken army, and it was still being passed down until that teacher retired a couple years ago.

In college, the idea persisted, and at one point I created a D&D druid character whose family/ancestors were each attuned to a specific species of bird, and he, of course, was attuned to chickens. Later in the campaign, the DM allowed me to permanently summon a Dire Chicken for him to use as a mount, and he got a few custom items and spells that all dealt with chickens. In the big final battle, he summoned a flock of chickens, but the villain rolled a 20 on his reaction check... so he just quirked an eyebrow, cast a fireball, and made some ironic comment about, "Instead of serving me my just desserts, you've just served me dinner." (Yeah, our DM thought of himself as a frikkin' comic genius. >.>) So yeah, mostly it's just been a nebulous idea that's followed me around because I use the same username everywhere. But now I have a Magic card! Whoo! &mdash;Dr Ishmael 06:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Epic.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 09:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ^Couldn't havce worded it better. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  09:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Get to work packing! *sics the chicken army on her husband* Jink


 * :D I am glad I asked :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Engage "bot" mode
Start on the third or fourth page or something if it hasn't updated yet :) --Gimmethegepgun 01:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Blarg, it be too late tonight - spent the day with my wife's family for her dad's birthday, now I think I'll have a glass of absinthe and pass out. That is something that's I've been meaning to work on, though, and while I have started on it a few times, I always stall out and go to work on other, more interesting stuff.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 04:30, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I toasted the first 2 pages. Some of them still link there, but they are intended to link to them --Gimmethegepgun 04:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Guess that's why every link I visited was right. When it turns over I'll give it a crack. &mdash; Powersurge360  05:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, definitely need the real bot for this one
Apparently at some recent point, probably the most recent update, ANet made a blunder, andwho the hell knows how long it'll take them to fix it. Anyway, it's kinda detailed here. Basically, we probably need to get those links pointed in the right direction. Right...? Or should we leave them, avoiding double redirects (which I already fixed) and wait for ANet to fix it? --Gimmethegepgun 07:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I saw that when I did my usual text-extraction from Gw.dat after the update, but was waiting to see what GWW did... then I forgot about it. ^^; I'd say ask someone like Linsey to confirm if this was intentional or not (I'm guessing not) before we go to all that trouble to update everything - the redirects will work for now.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I filed reports of it here, now all we can do is wait. Apparently the GWW userbase has noticed it too, and moved the stuff, but they haven't changed everything either, just the redirects --Gimmethegepgun 17:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's leave it for now. It would be a real shame to bot-update everything only to have it changed back...[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  17:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That was my plan. And I did not know they had a page for reporting text errors - I'll have to bookmark that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Went to the Bug page, which linked to a page to report stuff, then had a little list of pages for different bugs --Gimmethegepgun 20:54, 12 August 2008 (UTC)