Talk:Winter

Hi, a newbie here.

I read somewhere on Guild Hall that Greater Conflagation + Winter does not work, can someone check this?
 * It is said that GC needs to be put down before Winter for the combo to take effect. I didn't personally test this though. -PanSola 11:15, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I just tested Winter + GC in the guild hall and it converted all damage to cold no matter what (I think I tested both combinations although it was a little bit chaotic ;). Most interestingly though, Kindle Arrows (or a fiery string or GC) and Winter still triggered Conjure Flame and not Conjure Frost, although all the damage received (from bow, Kindle Arrows and Conjure Flame) counted as cold damage. (Mantra of Frost triggered 3 times per attack.) --Ts 17:07, 6 August 2006 (CDT)
 * That's because Conjure Flame does its bonus damage based on whether or not you have a "fire weapon," sending out fire damage. Winter just converts the damage type after the trigger is pulled, so to say. Mujaki 01:59, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * So if you were to bring winter and kindle arrows, would you want conjure frost or conjure flame? I tried it with conjure frost and it didn't seem to work--Devils Apprentice 19:15, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
 * OK answered my own questiong, went and tried again with conjure flame instead and it triggered.--Devils Apprentice 19:17, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Some guy was getting upset when I was telling him he was wrong about using Winter in Hell's Precipice as being beneficial when we only had warriors and rangers on our team. No one had custom weapon mods or damage type changing skills. Perhaps there is some other benefit I am missing or was he actually just to foolish to see he was wrong?
 * GW:SIGN, but you were correct. There was no advantage to taking Winter whatsoever, unless perhaps he had extra armor vs cold. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And that wouldn't have mattered either, come to think of it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 02:20, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Winter + Air Magic skills
Does Winter also neutralize the armor penetration inherent in many Air Magic skills, or does the penetration carry over despite the change in damage type?


 * armor penetration has nothing to do with the damage type, so the latter is true. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:28, 9 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, the armor penetration is associated with certain skills, not with lightning damage. --Karlos 01:09, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * OK, thanks. I have a tendency to make things more complicated than they really are.  --HopefulNebula 23:12, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

How does this work with Stone Striker and Mantra of Earth? Shido 11:59, 15 December 2006 (CST)

I second that. Does Winter take effect before, or after Stone Striker? Judging by the evidence presented by GC, I'd say that it takes effect after. Still, GC is a spirit and SS is an enchantment. Possibly affected by the order of coming into play?

Bug?
This copy and paste from the talkpage of Hell's Precipice:

winter?

I've not noticed that they are weaker when I used Winter. My fire magic was doing the same damage. At least to the Titans. Is there something I am missing or are the enemies not really weaker to cold damage than fire damage?&mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:37, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Unless something changed recently, they should be weaker to cold damage. I'll check this out tonight if I have time. BigAstro 16:44, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * On an unrelated note, where would a random meteor hit come from if I'm only near a warrior fist of the titans? I don't see anything about an environment effect but something called meteor hit me, interrupt and kd. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:59, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The volcano spews out rocks that hit certain spots and look like meteors. It's kind of an environmental effect. --Macros 17:05, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I tested it with my fire ele and Winter doesn't appear to have any effect on damage now. I did this mission at most 2 months ago and the titans were indeed weak to cold damage at the time. BigAstro 20:00, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I have tested this somewhat thoroughly and I figured out that Ice spells do indeed do more damage but fire spells do not do more damage when winter is active. I don't know if this intentional or a glitch, but it doesn't seem normal. Ryve 1:03, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, what this means is that it is Winter itself which is bugged, not the Hell's Precipice or the Titans. Bad news for Eskimo teams everywhere... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:17, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Just thought I'd move the discussion to a more relevant page. (T/C) 01:20, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I used an Icy sword over my Standard Sword and i saw a BIG damage difference, they too more, very noticable too. - Chrisworld 01:26, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Well, I guess that would confirm that it is definitely not the Damagetype system or the Titan's elemental resistances that is the problem here. I am pretty certain it is Winter. (T/C) 01:29, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Flare, winter, and mantra of frost work together as expected. --Fyren 02:46, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Uh...well >.> So perhaps it was a temporary bug that has now been fixed? I don't understand. If Winter is working to trigger Mantra of Frost, then it must surely be working...but if Winter + Fire spells don't do more damage to Titans then...Ice spells and cold-damage weps do, so I'm confused now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:25, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe its the spells themselves? What about a plain fire weapon doing more damage when winter is up? Just shooting in the dark here lol. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 21:52, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

I posted this concern under the discussion of Winter in the official wiki, hopefully we'll get a response from the head honchos at ANet... King Neoterikos 21:36, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Could someone place a nice big BUG warning on the article page? I just tried using winter on the NF mission with the sandstorm boss... disaster cause winter had no effect on his earth evilness. Rcollins779x 18:34, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Just did Hell's bonus, it's still bugged. Same damage with or without Winter. However, even with Greater Conflag, I was still doing the samae damage with my Piercing damage bow. Maybe the mission is bugged? --DEATHWING 18:50, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Not the mission, the bug lies with winter still. Rcollins779x 12:09, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
 * As I said above, it works fine in a scrimmage, so I doubt that. --Fyren 12:26, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Then perhaps you can explain your findings in comparison to ours? King Neoterikos 06:55, 29 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Then perhaps you can read what I said above. --Fyren 14:20, 29 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I just tested this in scrimage and it did NOT work. using conjure frost with a lightning weapon + winter did NOT activage conjure frost. Bug is with Winter. Rcollins779x 06:03, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Except that's the expected behavior. Read this talk page.  --Fyren 10:58, 31 July 2007
 * Fyren you seem to be the only person who thinks winter is not bugged, could you plz post a picture or related reference? Because i've tested winter in scrimmage and it did not work as advertised. Myself along with everyone else on this talk page, except for you believes that winter is bugged. (sorry if i sound offensive, not my intention.) Deathwing below posted his pictures showing Winter is bugged. Rcollins779x 19:02, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This talk page already describes why winter + conjure frost doesn't work. I already said which skills I used to test and that they work as expected.  I'm not saying Death faked his screenshots, just that it's not winter.  Winter works and has always worked with mantra of frost.  If the conjure result is any hint, it just means damage is converted after armor's effect.  --Fyren 20:01, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Fyren, you said, "Flare, winter, and mantra of frost work together as expected." but you did not say what you tested this on. You later said, "As I said above, it works fine in a scrimmage..." which was the first time you specified where you tested it, but that test does not account for titan resistance nor enviromental effects. After I did the Mantra of Element Test it seems to support your finding and that the problem resides with the dmg calculation/checks, but unless I had gone, done the tests myself you didn't show any evidence that the problem wasnt with winter. Rcollins779x 05:42, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Resetting indent... Either they lost their cold weakness, or it is bugged. Edit: They didn't remove the cold weakness. --DEATHWING 13:15, 29 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Without Winter
 * With Winter
 * With Ice Spear

Mark of Rodgort still works. So it is not transforming the damage. 83.40.211.70 19:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The reason the bow did not work with Winter is because Winter only converts elemental damge, not physical. In order to acheive that then Greater Conflagration must be in effect.99.250.110.248 20:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Pretty sure he was using flare, not the bow. I was wondering if it wasn't that the damage type is being converted, but the armor for the original type is still being applied, but that doesn't match the Mark experiment (unless the damage is considered to have more than one type??) --72.128.89.204 05:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I personally thought this was bugged, but in hard mode nightfall against the droutlings, it actually did not deal too muc hdamage. One ebon did about 1/5 of a caster's armor, which isnt that bad considering its hard mode with 60 al.--68.38.224.29 17:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not surprising. Thirst of the Drought simply multiplies the damage, whereas ordinary elemental weaknesses or resistances are  the result of lower or higher than normal AL.  Armor calculations occur before Winter takes effect, but it's entirely possible (and likely) that Thirst of the Drought is factored in after Winter takes effect, thus eliminating the damage increase. --Sarda The Sage 09:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Mantra of Element Test
These were my findings. And they conflict each other.

Scrimage


 * Winter converts elemental dmg to cold dmg activating matra of frost energy gain/dmg reduction.
 * Winter converts elemental dmg to cold dmg preventing matra of flame from activating energy gain/dmg reduction.
 * Conjure Frost checks for elemental dmg before winter converts it. Does not activate unless weapon is cold dmg regarless of winter.


 * Conjure Flame checks for elemental dmg before winter converts it. Does not activate unless weapon is fire dmg.
 * Conjure Element states "... your attacks strike for an additional X element type damage." If element type weapon is used, Mantra of Element activates twice (once for each dmg source).


 * Winter does convert conjure Element to cold dmg activating mantra of frost energy gain/dmg reduction. (Redundant)

Titans


 * Cold dmg does extra dmg on Titans (from Hell's Precipice) if using cold dmg weapons or spells without winter.
 * Winter does not convert elemental dmg to cold dmg to activate the extra dmg on titans who are weaker to cold dmg, or it converts after titan checks for type of dmg. (conflicting find with scrimage)

Rilohn Refuge Mission


 * Unknown if winter converts elemental dmg at all or if enviromental dmg overides winter. If the latter, is it intentional or bug? further testing required.

Something is bugged, whether its the order of dmg check vs dmg convert, or its a different related problem.

Rcollins779x 05:42, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

This essentially sums up the spew over the mantras, conjures and titans. Good work. I agree with your hypothesis on that the order of damage check/conversion may have something to do with the titans NOT taking extra damage from winter. Still a bug? King Neoterikos 19:16, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Interaction with Jagged Crystal Skin
Will it still stop this? Anyone? Glint is the penultimate of my remaining two Bonuses before I get the title for Prophecies. 82.0.165.189 17:27, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Aaah... ignore that. It's Greater Conflag. that's important, and that's not bugged. 82.0.165.189 17:30, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

The Bug
Yeah when I get on today I'll check if it has to do with the Titans or if it just doesn't work by doing a dungeon. The one with Magmus at the end. Can't think of name right now. -- ¿ĤëĻĺßŔîÑģЄŗ?  (talk|contribs) 13:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Heart of the Shiverpeaks?--[[Image:Holy Sig.jpg]] (talk) 02:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

OMG why doent Anet fix this!?! I mean come one, since of August!? Because Anet has a fetish for nerfing skills instead of fixing apparent problems... ANET! FIX IT! --85.228.100.26 10:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * But maybe they dont see any bug. Maybe this was the result of people that we're complaining that fire magic is too powerfull. I dont know. But i too would appreciate this to be fixed. My main character is a fire ele, and i'm discovering this bug today. -.-' After i've done so much mission or quest thinking Winter was woking right... But i was still wondering why wasn't i doing more damage ? Now i know. Freaking bug ! That will be really fun in some coner of Sanoth Walley or some level of Slaver Exile.
 * TulipVorlax 01:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

May 1st 2008 update may have fixed this? Will test.

NOWAI
I have reason to believe that after all these years, today's update finally makes Winter effective against Titans. 20:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * SRYSLY?! -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  (T / C)  20:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "Fixed a bug with skills that convert damage from one type to another, such as Stone Striker and Greater Conflagration. The converted damage was working incorrectly with armor bonuses and penalties." Presumably. Gah, now it's way too easy! Lame stuff. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 20:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Does this mean that enemies in the waterworks mission will again take the +50% dmg from our earth attacks? I was really pissed when they nerfed that.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  21:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Appears to be fixed for Hell's precipice, 1st may 2008
Target: level 28 burning titan

Without winter

rank 16 Rodgort's invocation: 32

rank 16 stoning: 52

With winter

rank 16 Rodgort's invocation: 85

rank 16 stoning: 73

Metasynaptic 21:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Woo Hoo! And I'm sure this has absolutely nothing to do with the added endgame prophecies content in the way of the Deldrimor Items  /sarcasm.   -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  21:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Does that mean we can remove the "Anomaly" note from this skill, or is further testing required? 65.87.175.36 21:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Good call, anomaly removed. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  (T / C)  21:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)