Talk:Cynn

Great Cynn quotes
Well, there's the one I already put in the article, Then there's another one of my favorites: -PanSola 16:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * "Listen lady, he may not be much, but that Monk is mine!"
 * "That's Jamei? Mhenlo, he's a GIRL!"
 * "What is it with this place? Every female around here seem to know Mhenlo...personally.  Well, he better hope none of his little "friends" upset me too much, sometimes my spells miss...."


 * That shiny bald head... who can resist? &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 16:31, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Lol, like a light bulb attracting flies? -PanSola 21:03, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Cynn has been known to taunt your party as they die. She has some pretty cynical things to say as you lay dead on the ground. Ill try to record them later (this may be factions only thing). --Draygo Korvan 13:22, 4 May 2006 (CDT)

Cynn vs Orion
I noticed their skill setups are very similar, with Cynn basically only missing Orion's Immolate. Is Cynn really a better choice than Orion? Hmm, maybe there are AI differences making her more useful for e.g. casting spells in time, but otherwise I dunno. Hmm. -- Jugalator [AB] 13:48, 6 May 2006 (CDT)
 * She's just the "ascended" version of Orion. I'm pretty sure they use the same AI, Cynn just gets a "better" skill bar. -PanSola 13:56, 6 May 2006 (CDT)
 * BTW, who said Cynn's a better hench than Orion? -PanSola 13:58, 6 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I checked his skills in Southern Shiverpeaks and he wasn't using Immolate. I suspect it gets replaced by Mind Burn. -- Gordon Ecker 04:26, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I just did some more testing. He wasn't using Immolate anywhere. It wasn't exactly exhaustive testing, but I did watch his skillbar for about a minute of combat in each region. -- Gordon Ecker 05:03, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

whats this line about her having a thong? and why do we care? is it relevant? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.1.184 (talk &bull; contribs) 07:28, 16 May 2006 (CST).


 * Of course we care, Mr. Anonymous! I can't believe you got rid of that!  It's a fact about the character's model/texturing, and is accurate.  There's no need to be grumpy about it. -- cereseternal 01:10, 29 November 2006 (CDT)

Trivia
I somehow doubt that "Burn Baby Burn" is a reference to the band Ash and not to the Trammps and their song/album "Disco Inferno". Anyone else want to chime in with their opinion? --KeeseroGuan 20:04, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Why do you think so? -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 23:37, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * For starters, because you could walk up to 90% of the people you meet on the street and they'd never have even HEARD OF, much less heard Ash. Whereas most of them will have at least HEARD Disco Inferno. It's a disco "classic" as it were, and very well known. Of course, the phrase "burn baby burn" isn't exactly a real original phrase to begin with, I know I've heard it used in some cheesy 80's action movie... DKS01 05:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's rather subjective and depends on where you're from. You'd need to talk up to 90% of the people in several different states, unless it's the state the Anet developer's from. But I agree about it being a movie line; it's probably just random thing that popped up in a developer's head rather than an actual song. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 20:00, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * If I remember correctly, "Disco Inferno" is in the Dance Music Hall of Fame, I think that would vouch for it's popularity. Also, if we can't come to a definitive answer, I suggest that the trivia note be removed altogether, rather than having what might be yet another false reference on the site. --KeeseroGuan 15:25, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You do remember correctly. Disco Inferno is indeed in the Dance Music Hall of Fame. It also made it to number 11 on the Billboard top 100 chart in 1978. We're not exactly talking some obscure song that nobody's ever heard of here. DKS01 06:07, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Underwear
I am going to remove her underwear as shown in the article, it is entirely inappropriate. --Blastedt(Talk) 21:44, 1 December 2006 (CST)
 * Remove her underwear, or remove the trivia about her underwear? I'm guessing you meant remove the trivia about it.  As your edit summary said - wording is everything - lol. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:09, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * lol. Not exactly the advice I gave, see his talk page, but I never saw that edit coming. Wiki-bloopers. &mdash; Gares 18:39, 4 December 2006 (CST)

The fuck it is man, the game is rated teen and if you can't stand a little undies get off the internet. Plus half the female mesmer armor has a panty flash. Get off your high horse. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.49.95.127 (contribs) 12:54, December 2, 2006.


 * Aw, I think you just removed anons source of pr0n. This IS a game, as you said, not an adult website. The article contributed nothing useful to the Wiki itself, merely voyeurism. -- Macros† ( talk / contribs ) 12:05, 2 December 2006 (CST)


 * One could say that her list of quotes do not contribute anything useful either, but the quotes reveal information about her personality, as does her attire. The texture artist didn't just slap something on, the arwork is fairly detailed for something that's concealed by her character model.  Personally, I think that, if not a screenshot, at least the fact that the thong exists should be stated in the notes section.  I also think that if you consider the screenshot that was posted to be pornography, you're going to the wrong sites ^^` yes, you're absolutely correct, Guild Wars is a game, and this wiki is a repository for factual information about this game.  The information is "relevant" because it's information about a character in an artical containing information about a character.  No content should be removed because one or two people are bothered by it.  Anon is correct: if something on the net offends you that much, get off the net.  No wiki that I'm aware of is censored, including this one. --Cereseternal 15:12, 2 December 2006 (CST)


 * I fail to see how having a picture of someones buttocks enlightens us as to their personality. Besides that, it's just plain silly. If you're really dead set on having a picture, by all means revert it. I'm certainly not complaining about seeing a pair of cheeks. :P It was just the anons behavior that motivated me more than anything. -- Macros†  ( talk / contribs ) 20:55, 2 December 2006 (CST)


 * My point was (now that I remembered to sign in) that if the game designers took enough time to put it in the game, along with a crotch shot on the female mesmer primeval armor, and a quest with a joke about erectile dysfunction in Factions, then calling the content "Inappropriate" is entirely hypocritial. Blastedt applying his own puritanical sense of what is and isn't appropriate to a site whose content matches the game which it is based on is simply ridiculous. I would also add that while I was the user who originally added the trivia about the thong, I did not add the picture, but I do not object to such content being added. --Alfonzo 00:13, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * No, you can't say that quotes and dialogue don't contribute anything. They do. Sometimes the quotes tell more about a character in less words you'll need to use to try and describe them. Some of them contain background stories and additional relationships never mentioned in quests and missions. And the underwear... while I'm fine the addition of the note, even the image, I think removing the image is a better call. It's not really hypocritical, I think it's just a matter of culture; and it will offend people. Some of you say that this is the Internet. Exactly. That's precisely why we should all be more sensitive and less rude to others, since it's a globally accessible resource. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:08, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * hy·poc·ri·sy –noun, plural -sies.
 * 1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
 * 2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
 * 3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.


 * Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy


 * Furthermore:


 * Images should only be those directly relating to the Guild Wars series of games. Minor use of images not directly related to Guild Wars is acceptable on user pages.


 * Any uploading of pornographic material may result in long term or permanent bans. Uploading of other material not related to Guild Wars and attempting to pass this off as Guild Wars images may result in short term bans (e.g. uploading a picture of a car with the image name Bog Skale.jpg). Source:http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/GuildWiki:Image_use_policy


 * The image was decidedly not pornographic and therefore not covered by Guildwiki's image removal policy. The removal was in violation of Guildwiki's policy. This is not a venue for the discussion of morality, it is a venue for the discussion of page content. Again, should we delete the Female Mesmer Primieval armor on the basis of its revealing appearance? Or do the same to the 1.5k Kurzick Female Warrior Armor? And while we're at it we can take all the Scar and Tattoo armor for both sexes down. Argue its relevancy if you like, but do not argue it's "appropriateness" --Alfonzo 17:50, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * Well, I would say armors shots differs from that shot in intent. What is deemed pornographic is a subjective issue so I won't go there, since it borders on morality. As for the removal of the image, I'm just of the opinion that there's nothing wrong being a little more sensitive and accomodating to others. I did say I'm fine either way. If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 19:51, 3 December 2006 (CST)


 * I'm not sure what you think the intent of that shot was. I was thinking it was to prove that the texture existed, not to be pornographic. Also, the remark about hipocrisy was directed at the user that originally removed not only the picture but the note about the thong. I never intended that remark towards you, as you have not behaved in such a manner. Quite the opposite. --Alfonzo 01:13, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * Oh, ok, phew ^-^ -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 02:17, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Everyone <3s teh undies. Anyone who doesn't like teh undies ISNT human. If you aren't a human, then you must be a ROBOT! If you are a ROBOT, you should DIE. So, DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.45.102 (contribs) 04:56, December 3, 2006.
 * Umm... technically, robots can't "die". You're better off on some other website which caters to your wild hormones. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 01:08, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * We should all be more sensitive and less rude to others. In other words, please don't feed the trolls --Alfonzo 18:09, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ok, I deserved that. Sorry. -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 19:51, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * All in good fun my friend ;) --Alfonzo 01:13, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Guild wiki is a reference source, not an undie fair. Why don't we get an admin on this? --Blastedt(Talk) 14:59, 4 December 2006 (CST)

How about you just link to it, but not display it? (image) &mdash; Skuld 15:25, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * As long as anything like that is never actively displayed, my parents won't kill and ban me from the wiki. That was the main reason for this.  Sounds good :/ --Blastedt(Talk) 15:30, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * I don't think we even need to link to it. If you want to see it it's visible in the game. I really don't have a problem with content of this sort; every character model in Guild Wars is designed to be sexually alluring. There are no ugly humans in the game! And most of the female armour is about as revealing as you can get.


 * But if this issue is causing concern (and I don't see why this would be more of an issue than the monk tattoos that show characters pretty much naked) then we need only make note of it in the trivia.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 15:33, 4 December 2006 (CST)
 * I think the actual picture is too much. Why? We don't post screenshots of every glitch and graphical artifact on article pages. That's what talk pages are for. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 16:47, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * LOL - aren't there more important things to discuss? I can't believe this has come up again - looking at the article history, this note has always been removed shortly after being added in the past - I see one instance the way back in Oct 2005 (removed by Karlos that time).
 * In my opinion, anyone who can get his jollies off a panty shot of an animated character is, to be blunt, extremely hard up for the real thing and borderline pathetic. Not that this image is even pornographic - it's just pointless.
 * Prior precedent has been to remove the note - it serves no useful purpose to playing the game, and can be removed with no loss to the wiki. Even if we keep the note this time (which I see no reason whatsoever to do so), then no image is needed - either in the wiki or via a link.  As 130.58 mentioned, we don't use screenshots to document every little graphical artifact or graphic image quirk, and I see no reason why this one should get special documentation. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:56, 4 December 2006 (CST)


 * The reason I have been pushing so hard for this topic is, much to the dismay of many people here I'm sure, is not because I "have a panty fetish." I can assure you, I know how to find real porn :P I read through both Wikipedia's policy in entirety as well as Guildwiki's (every article relating to it), prior to posting the image, and determined that lest it be viewed as being pornographic, I wasn't breaking the rules by posting it.  However, seeing as it's caused such a fuss, I won't push for the image to be replaced.


 * However, there's no reason, in my opinion, why the notation should be removed. It doesn't bother anybody, and it's the kind of "fun fact" that is frequently found at the bottom of many articles.  I am going to post the notation again, and the next time it is removed, I'll contact an admin, not because I'm that desperate to have it there, but because it beats spending months fighting a tug of war over it, posting and reposting.  To clarify, as Alfonzo said above, the image was added not to vandalize the page or to give teenagers who can't find real porn something to enjoy, but as proof that the texture exists.  To be honest, I expected it to be removed within the hour and for myself to be banned, but after the initial remarks about it, as well as the support of other users, I could not let it lie. --Cereseternal 14:53, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Two comments. First, three admins (Skuld, Lord Biro and myself) are already involved; but, feel free to invite others.  Second, replacing the image prior to concensus being reached is a violation of GW:1RV, and doing so can, technically, be viewed as a form of vandalism.  As such, do not place the note back at this time. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:58, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'm not saying it won't be allowed; I think that a trivia only mention (no image) is a good compromise here. But I would like a few days (lets say a week - Dec 9th sound good?) for additional comments from others before its placed back up. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 15:04, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Including a note that the character model is, let's say, "sartorially correct" and includes normally-hidden underwear beneath the skirt seems like a good idea. A picture is just unnecessary and puerile, it doesn't add anything to the trivia. I also think that keeping out any mention of the infamous undies is a double standard, considering the prevalence of innuendo already in the game, to say nothing of the fully visible barely-dressed character models in the game. -HarshLanguage 18:40, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thank you very much, Berek ^^ I was unaware of this GW:1RV, and I appoligize for starting all of this. I can wait until December 9th ^^ thank you for stepping in. --Cereseternal 15:11, 5 December 2006 (CST)


 * Hehe, if you look into the history of that image article, you can see that Barek put in as part of the reason for deletion: "user has a panty fetish". --Curse You 22:15, 4 December 2006 (CST)

wording?
For those who support the notation, how should it be worded (should there be no opposition to it being added)? HarshLanguage's was a good idea, are there any others? The original was something like, "clipping through Cynn's clothing reveals that she wears a thong." If there is a better way to word it, I'd like to know. Perhaps one that is more vague? --Cereseternal 07:14, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * What's wrong with that sentence? &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 07:16, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * Heh, nothing IMO, but I'd like this to be something that everyone can live with, so this never becomes the subject of so much debate in the future. --Cereseternal 07:20, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * I'm thinking that the word "sartorial" may not be widely enough known, especially among those where English is their second language. But otherwise I do find the above proposed "The graphics model used for Cynn is sartorially correct and includes normally hidden underwear beneath the skirt." as acceptable wording. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 13:39, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * I like that. A rather hilarious way to express it. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 14:21, 8 December 2006 (CST)
 * Haha, I appreciate the compliment. The really straightforward way to say it would just be something like, "The graphics model used for Cynn includes normally hidden underwear beneath the skirt." I can see how "sartorially correct" could be confusing. Obviously either is fine with me. =) -HarshLanguage 19:45, 8 December 2006 (CST)

It's the 9th and I'm re-adding the comment about the undies. While this issue seems to have been handled in a civil manner, seeing the words "purile" and "panty fetish" from those in opposition to the remark, in addition to accusing users interested in actual game content added as an easter egg by the graphical artists to be sex-starved and pathetic while those in favor attempt to be civil and cite rules and argue logic is certainly disheartening. One can draw their own conclusions from such remarks.

As to the revert wars policy, I was unaware that there had been conflict over such remarks in this article in the past. I had seen several forum posts on this very topic on fan sites like Guildwarsguru.com and was suprised that such trivia had not been posted here. I know this site isn't affiliated with other fan sites and has its own policies, but I assumed that bits of trivia such as this or the symbols seen when clipping through Mhenlo's armor would be appreciated by the community of a game rated for individuals ages thirteen and higher. I also checked the discussion here and some of the page history, but I could not be bothered to check every update for a remark I had thought to be innocuous If the community feels that such information is indeed inappropriate then it obviously has the right to moderate itself. After all, this is a wiki.

However, I see this not as a "graphical glitch" as an above poster stated. It could be argued that it is more similar to the Grenth Temple during the Drok's run or the Balthazar Temple in The Falls, or even little quirks like the end of the map in The Great Northern wall. Little extras like this are put in by the game designers to make the world more fun and exciting to explore for players that are curious and take the time, certainly not to infuriate the parents of well meaning teens playing the game. This site is meant, unless I am mistaken, to document all aspects of the game. If one can't handle a burn every once in a while, one would be wise to get out of the fire. --Alfonzo 22:57, 9 December 2006 (CST)
 * I agree wholeheartedly. There are other instances like this (you mentioned Mhenlo's symbols) in the game, easter eggs, as you said in the first paragraph, that are worthy of note as well, so I fail to see how this easter egg should not be mentioned on the grounds that it's innapropriate for a game rated Teen.  Eitehr way, I'm happy that we all seem to be comfortable with the compromise of the notation and no image.  I'm willing to live with it, not by the arguements that it was not appropriate, more along the lines of what was said above, that not everything has a picture.  Again, I want to point out that the picture was there in the first place for "I'm not making this up" purposes. --Cereseternal 00:21, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * I reverted the edit, then replaced it with the wording discussed above. Honestly, after all the back and forth on this, I was surprised to see a discussion on the wording totally ignored.  If the wording should have been made something else, it should have been suggested for discussion. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:44, 10 December 2006 (CST)