Talk:Grenth's Balance

Does this work on current health or max health? I guess current health. 01:48, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Yes, it's current health. --84.175.97.94 03:49, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * I'm not sure about that any more. After some experiments with Demonic Flesh and Grenth's Balance it looks like it actually compares max health. That combination would've been pretty powerful... --84.175.123.80 02:59, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * OK, this skill now officially confuses me. It seems to take both actual and max health in account. It definitely doesn't just compare either of both. When using Demonic Flesh (lowers actual health, but increases max health) I lose health when using Grenth's balance and the mob is healed. But when Using Grenth's Balance on the same kind of mob, without Demonic Flesh just after taking some damage I gain health and the mob is damaged. --84.175.123.80 08:11, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)

I cleared this up.

Last night I cast this spell on some lowly critter by mistake and got a nice jolt: -173 HP (Grenth's Balance) was floating over my head. :) --Karlos 09:53, 20 October 2005 (EST)

Does this count as Damage?
My hunch is it doesn't, which means it behaves like lifestealing (though could be "donating" as well).

The two cases (target lose health vs caster lose health) should both be tested. -PanSola 23:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure it's not damage. I remember seeing it go through a prot spirit before, that was some random PvP match a long time ago.   --Fyren 08:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * From what I've seen when using it it's not damage it's just a health loss or it's Life Stealing (aka unblockable, unnegatable damage) Third[[Image:Vampiric_Bite.jpg|20px]]

Could this work on % instead of numbers?
Lately I've been playing around with this skill, and I've found that at times it almost looks like the life percentages are equalized (and yes I tried this with levels other than my own) - can anyone confirm this? --hellochar 16:21, 23 June 2006 (MT)
 * No, this works as the description describes (besides the one or two caveats mentioned in the notes). --68.142.14.40 16:30, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * I've tried this on some practice dummies and the condition npc's on the Isle of Nameless. This is what I did:
 * I got my health down to 180 max (with runes). I took Grenth's Balance and used it on the dummy to see if it could be useful (ie. low max health -> high damage output). All it showed was a little yellow -0 above the dummy. Strange, because I thought this was based on numbers (I had a guy with high max health, down to very little using infuse health, then steal health with Grenth's Balance, which actually healed a high number, somewhere around 280 with about 580 max health, but I can't actually reproduce that yet). Just my guess. 62.165.96.134 13:30, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
 * If you're at full health, Grenth's will never do anything. Also note the description says "up to your maximum health."  --Fyren 13:44, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, that's it. It is somehow funny. If you are 1HP under your max, you may take a lot of damage if you cast if over a enemy with very low HP, but if you are at full health, Grenth's Balance does nothing but showing a red -0 and a yellow -0 over you and your enemy. Mithran 14:03, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I use this skill on my warrior for those high HP bosses like Shiro. I have a max health of 1300, and he has something like 6000. I take a lot of damage and get down to one hundred or so (around 10%), I use this and Shiro has around 75% health and I have full health, so no.

Lethal Balancing?
Can this skill kill someone if their life is lower than "the difference"? Or will it just leave them at 1 like all the other skills that I wish didn't?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 11:16, 23 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Such a scenario is impossible, since this skill uses current health, not maximum. &mdash;Tanaric 14:14, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

"If target foe has more health than you, you gain half the difference (up to your maximum health), and that foe loses an equal amount"
 * So is the article wrong or are you wrong?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 08:12, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Like what would happen here: What would happen to the target?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 08:16, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Nvm it;'s probably me reading it wrong.-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 08:16, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
 * -Caster---Target-
 * (P'-')p"3000 HP, lowered to 1"   Q(-_-Q)"490 HP, full"


 * The difference between your two healths is 489. so you gain 245 (244?) health and your target will lose the same amount. --JP 09:03, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

So at best he will always be left off with one?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 09:45, 24 October 2006 (CDT)


 * From my understanding yes. But beware if you have more health than the target you lose the health! (as per notes on article page). --JP 13:24, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Ok, I will do my best to explain the three possible scenarios it will work with. Scenario 1: The right side of the scale Your max health is 1000. Your current health is 200. Their max health is 1000. Their current health is 1000.

Now if you were to use Grenth's Balance on the enemy, your health will be rounded up to 600 while theirs gets lowered to 600.

Scenario 2: The opposite side of the scale.

You have 900 health. Your max health is 1000. They have 100 health. Their max is 1000.

Using it here would LOWER your health to 500 while RAISING THEIRS to 500.

Scenario 3: The Limit

You have 450 health out of 500. They have 900 health out of 1000.

This time you will be at 500 health out of 500. BUT the enemy will be down to only 850 out of 1000.

This should clear things up. Darkobra

Latest Note
I'm not sure I agree with the addition of "Previous Versions of this skill . . . " note. As I understood policy, the wiki exists to document the state of the game today, not how it was yesterday. Also, I don't think it belongs under the "This skill works best if . . ." heading. My preference would be to simply strike the note totally, but wanted to ask for some consensus. thanks! ScionOfErixalimar 01:11, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Well guess I were wrong when I understood "notes" as lesser known things about the skill that could be of interest to some. Sure it is yesterday, but try reading Signet of Ghostly Might. I would assume the notes I added about previous history use of this skill is much the same.

So either Signet of Ghostly Might needs a pruning as well for its notes, or the current notes I added is of interest to some, or what point am I missing? Readding the info for now. Taoh Rihze 03:22, 14 December 2006 (CST)
 * Removed both. We don't track history like that.  Most people aren't looking for such info and people tend to keep adding notes about whatever the most recent patch change to something is, usually making their notes time-sensitive, so we just don't do it at all.  For things like ghostly might, maybe something could be stuck into trivia (it definitely doesn't fall into notes), but the GB note is more about the GvG change than GB.  --Fyren 08:50, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Lyssa's Balance?
How are Grenth's Balance and Lyssa's Balance AT ALL related spare for their names??? That isn't reason enough to relate them... Their uses are ENTIRELY different... = / EXCEPT in the fact that they each trigger/used best when the caster has fewer of something (Enchantments/health) than the target - Even so, the relationship is miniscule. I think that should be removed. = / Pestilence 22:33, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed. The connection is a bit stretched.Cyrogenic 20:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Well remove it then :P --Blue.rellik 10:28, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Similar name and similar trigger effect

caster losing health is a
The skill description reads "If target foe has more Health than you..." and does not anywhere imply the caster losing health. I don't see where current behavior would be "correct" wrt. skill description. And then, game behaviour differs from skill description, which constitutes a bug, and it should be marked as such. 134.130.4.46 14:08, 16 July 2007 (CDT)


 * there. fixed. it isn't really a bug, it's an inaccurate description. - Skakid9090 14:11, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * A wrong description is a bug, IMHO. But since the notes now clearly say the description is wrong, I'll be quiet. Thanks. 134.130.4.46 19:55, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Bug?
OK, so in the Stygian Veil, I had Protective Spirit on me, and one of the monsters casted Grenth's Balance. But I lost more than 10% of my maximum health, despite having Protective Spirit on me. It's true that Grenth's Balance doesn't count as damage necessarily, but according to the description of Protective Spirit, you just can't lose more than 10% maximum health from no matter what source, as far as I can see. So... is this a bug? Is this worth noting? -Reddog500 1:36, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * GB is not damage, it is health change. Prot Spirit only affects damage --Gimmethegepgun 02:47, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * More proof of Necromancer superiority! Moo hah hah hah! --Nunix 02:49, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell. [[Image:GDSig.JPG]] 03:17, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Caster Loosing Health
I've done Hard Mode Dragon's Lair, and used GB on foes with barely any health left. I never took damage. has the bug been removed?

W/N Final Boss Killer?
This is just an idea for a boss-killer build, to help take down Glint, Shiro or Abaddon as quickly as possible. The extreme nature of this build will probably make it ineffective (or even harmful) for use against lesser bosses and enemies.

Preliminary
Base health:
 * 480 (level 20)
 * +50 (superior vigor rune)
 * +30 (weapon)
 * +30 (offhand)
 * = 590. Each character has different runes, insignias and weapon bonuses, so this is variable.  The more health, the better; +45/enchanted upgrades on weapons and survivor insignias will all help.  By the time the boss is reached, the character may also have morale boost (good) or death penalty.

Usage
Use the skills in order on the skillbar.
 * 1) Signet of Stamina (+283 health)
 * 2) Endure Pain (+286 health)
 * 3) Awaken the Blood
 * 4) Demonic Flesh (30% sacrifice, down to 70%, +192 max health)
 * 5) Dark Pact (15% sacrifice, down to 55%)
 * 6) Dark Pact (15% sacrifice, down to 40%)
 * 7) Dark Pact (15% sacrifice, down to 25%)
 * 8) Dark Pact (15% sacrifice, down to 10% -- too low during combat?)
 * 9) Grenth's Balance

With 590 base health, this sequence raises the character's maximum health to around 1300-1350 (after Demonic Flesh) and sacrifices down to 100-250 health via Dark Pact. This enables Grenth's Balance to steal around 1000 health from the target, assuming the target currently has 2000 health or more. (I selected Dark Pact as the sacrifice for its 5 energy cost and 2 second recharge.) The entire sequence takes around 15 seconds and costs 45-50 energy (supplied by a +15 energy staff?).

Maximum health can be boosted even further with Symbiosis and Vital Blessing. With 16 Beast Mastery and 16 Protection Prayers (provided by other party members of course), this gives the character another 685 maximum health (3 enchantments plus the direct benefit of Vital Blessing) for a grand total of around 2000 health. This is slightly absurd, considering how much health would need to be sacrificed away before using Grenth's Balance for a spike.

Apology
It's 3:00 AM, and I'm bored. :-) M47715c00l 03:05, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

Anomaly
The new concise description mentions the anomaly as an effect. Zefir 02:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Healed to death
If Grenth's Balance heals you when you are below 1 hp and it cant heal you back to the positives. To get to negative health, (if you didn't know), take +max life skills, preferably Symbiosis with enchantments, and bring sacrifice skills, you can get hp below 0. Simply raise your max HP, sacrifice (not to death), and wait for the effect of the +max hp to wear off. Anyways, as I was saying, if you have -600/600 HP, and they have 600/600 HP, and you use it, you get healed... and die, leaving them with only 300/600 HP. Both the death, and the fact that they didn't loose all 600 of their health was strange to me. Anyone got any explanations? --ShadowHunter 22:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In your example, dying is not surprising. If you have negative health, any skill that heals you for less than the amount of negative health will kill you. (Smart ass infusers have met many deaths from their equally smart ass prot monks hitting them with a rof after zaishen can confirm this (this was corrected so that you cant die between matches but its well know)). As for your enemy's health, remember that GB balances out your health. It appears that it doesn't register your negative health, merely your visible health (0). If you were at 0/600 then it would give both of you 300/600 after use. But since your health wasn't actually at 0 it gave you +300 and your enemy -300. This killed you as you were healed. The root of this probably has something to do with the way the server and client handle updates to your health. Status effects and weapon swaps don't check for death if your health is below 0 but uses of skills will actually do a check for if you're dead or not. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 22:36, 7 April 2008 (UTC)