User talk:Scythe/Guild Rant

Interesting. 05:18, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The moral of the story? There is no moral to this story, it's just meant to scare you into behaving.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Roar.]]îğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a Card Creation Contest!  05:52, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

"If your going to give officers flak, honestly, prepare the damn argument first." The irony. It is overwhelming. - Auron 06:04, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

points to think about
Some points of the rant that I feel could use more work/thought: Note: whoever takes half an hour reading the rant should not be considered literate; who spends no time thinking about it when it concerns them should not be considered wise. -- ◄mendel► 08:47, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * officers are being trusted - with what?
 * "I don't like what your doing now" is first and foremost a statement about the person saying this. Being able to say this is a show of trust. Yes, it has downsides. Can you react to it better than Wikia does?
 * How can you bring about a productive argument when you feel that the people you're arguing with have not prepared one? Whose job is it?
 * "personal attack" is rarely held a matter of intent (though culpability is). It is hard to distinguish from personal criticism. See also wikipedia:Wikipedia:NPA.
 * "act like an eight year old" is a personal attack.
 * "Furthermore: some officers" -- this situation is not about them, it's about you, and this looks like an attack out of spite. This section works against you. (I've heard it recommended to not do that when you're quitting a RL job.) If you intended it to not be that, it needed more work.
 * "I'm aware that my officership wouldn't last and that I don't make the best officer." -- your tone says you're pissed off nonetheless - if you thought you weren't a good officer, why didn't you resign (see "trust")?

Oh, and "I took a solid seven hours of unrelenting flak yesterday" reads to me like "I was unable to de-escalate the situation, step back, let people calm down, and have the guild enjoy the game instead of the guildrama". You really oght to do that more. ;-P -- ◄mendel► 15:22, November 16, 2010 (UTC) anyways  i dont quite know what else to say :s   fin"'' yes, his grammar is terrible.  He's not one of 'our crowd' where, we tend to have a fairly massive knowledge of at least one language, and can be bothered to use some of that capacity.  Simply: I was an officer because I was the best option at the time.
 * Re: Officers are being trusted...
 * Officers are trusted to keep the guild + related activities running smoothly. Essentially they are moderators of a very wide-range forum.  To relate it to a wiki: an officer is closest in parallel to a sysops.
 * Re:I don't like...
 * When someone seriously tells me to shut up, I'll probably shut up unless I have something that I think I really need to say. Can I handle it better than Wikia does?  Probably, I accept criticism as constructive and understand the idea of community consensus>me when it comes to decisions.
 * Re: How can you...
 * Someone has to do it first, right? People should not be left to wallow in poor argumentative skills, nor should problems be left unattended.  It's the responsibility of the entire community to correct a community problem.  However, people/users who are leaders in said community should guide it, as that can only be helpful.  (Note that this is extremely idealist, and will almost never happen.)
 * Re: PAs/eight year olds
 * I didn't think describing actions constituted being a personal attack?
 * Re: Other officers stuff
 * What I was talking about was how one of the (if not the biggest) trolls from this recent wave became an officer. That's actually pretty common in this guild, somehow the worst trolls are given officership that lasts long enough for them to do some serious damage.  The motif of that paragraph (and the entire rant, for the most part) was that officers need to be chosen more carefully.
 * Re: My officership Not lasting
 * I knew it wouldn't last but the entire response from the guild leader sums it up pretty well: ''"i have no officers atm just because "i like you"  which *suprise suprise* is why you became on officer,  because i demoted the "i like you guys" and i decided to try out someone who has a great knowledge of the game,  unfrtinatly,  .. you seem to enjoy using your knowledge more to create arguments and trying to disagree with others than actually helping people.. ther-for in my eyes its a waste of knowledge... you know this is the reason i made you an officer, and i told you your attitude had to calm down, but once again you had to see how far you could go....


 * Overall, I know my definitions of "troll" and "personal attack" are different than most, so that's an obvious point. But as for suppressing / "beating back" drama, not my strong suit (hehe, i know its as shocking to me as it is to you).  Best leave that to the pros. &mdash;  Scythe   1:02, 17 Nov 2010 (UTC)


 * So, if you know what an officer ought to do, why weren't you doing it?
 * When someone seriously tells me to shut up, I'll probably shut up unless I have something that I think I really need to say. -- now, it's possible that I misunderstand this, but I've noticed that when people "really need to say" something is when they most need to shut up. When a discussion got emotional, your best bet is to step back and rethink your approach, because the one you've been using didn't get you where you wanted; it allows the person you're involved with some breathing space to get their thoughts together, get out of the rut they're in and maybe accept your point, and it keeps the "spectators" who already have decided who's got a good argument and who just keeps repeating himself to think worse of you. I've written GW:SHOUT for an occasion like that; it's not perfect, alas. When someone seriously tells you to shut up, and means it as advice, it usually is very good advice that you should heed in your own interest even if you think otherwise.
 * You might also ponder that when you are the one in authority and with the responsibilities, you expect others to tolerate a certain amount of imperfection. Are you as tolerant of others in similar positions? -- ◄mendel► 10:37, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm tolerant of people's imperfections...when it becomes a fatal error is when I lose my patience. &mdash; Scythe   22:02, 19 Nov 2010 (UTC)