Talk:Archer's Signet

The only use I can see is to neutralise the HUGE cost of Concussion Shot.--Spawn 12:01, 23 May 2006 (CDT)
 * consider a bow spike build with four spikes, at 10 expertese, you can fire them all off at no energy cost, and then start your normal attack method. provided your not attacking normally for those first few shots, it could be quite powerful in PvP. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 14:27, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * But isn't Punishing Shot a better use of your elite slot in an Rspike build?--Spawn 09:02, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Good use for spamming high cost bow attacks because it lasts 30 sec, and leaves room for a little more variety, probably want to use Mesmer skills or Serpent's Quickness to make real use of it.--Relyk 02:52, 15 February 2007 (CST)

I don't get this, the only reason you would want this is if you didn't have expertise, but it needs expertise to use it.. Skuld  05:11, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes.. its quite underpowered. Rather same story with Stolen Speed elite for mesmer, it speeds up your spell casting(eliminating need for fast casting) but it requires fast casting to work. But that is still more useful than this... Robin of Glory  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 05:37, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Seriously, They should have just made it marksmanship lol. (Not a fifty five 22:19, 19 September 2006 (CDT))
 * One reason to cap it: Skill Hunter title. The only good use of this skill. This skill is so LAME. Sir Bertrand 14:49, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

I need someone to confirm if this skill counts the remaining uses correctly in the Effects Monitor. Seth Crimsionflare 02:13pm, 02 June 2006 (GTM)


 * I just capped it, it doesn't keep track of remaining uses. -- Gordon Ecker 02:43, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

I guess a possible use is for an R/Mo to keep Succors, Mending, Watchful Spirit, or whatever up on 3 other people...and you use the signet for interrupts...for 6 interrupts...every 45 seconds...yeah, I got nothing -_-; --waywrong 23:18, 24 November 2006 (CST)

How about a R/Me that could use an instant sig recharge stance and some powerful but expensive messie spells like Conjure Nightmare, followed up by six free bow attacks since you don't have any energy left now?-- Windjammer 02:57, 13 February 2007 (CST)

Archer's Signet at Expertise 9.
Archer's Signet has sweet spots are 9 and 12. Expertise also has a sweet spot at 9 (for ten point skills), and 9 is a lot more affordable than Expertise 12 or 14. In fact it let's you pull your third skill up to 10, assuming you have MS:12+1+2 and EX:7+2.

For me, Archer's Signet is made for taking advantage of the best Daze attack in the game.

At Marksmanship 15, Expertise 9 you can Daze a caster for 20s, every 5s. You could potentially Daze an entire enemy team, and a Silencing Bowstring would bring the duration up to 26.6s (right?). Or you could use it against the same enemy every time they remove it, and Concussion Shot may have less downtime than their condition removal anyway. It's not a stance and it's not a prep. So you can still use Serpent's Quickness to bring the Signet's refresh time down to 30s, and use a prep to either cover the condition or increase your damage.

I have two Archer's Signet builds, the Wilderness Survival one is something like Read The Wind or Apply Poison, Serpent's Quickness, Archer's Signet, Pin Down, Concussion Shot, next target, Concussion Shot, next target Pin Down, Concussion Shot. Throw Dirt (works well with SQ), Troll's Unguent and either a Res or Frozen Soil (world's most annoying ranger, 2006 and 2007)

The big mistake is thinking that just because this only works with Bow Attacks, then you are limited to using a bow (not great for chasing dazed targets). My other Archer's Signet build has a pet with Call of Haste and Maiming Strike, then you're not only helping with the pressure (the pet will stick to the first target for a while), you're also freeing up your Archer's Signet usages so that you can use Concussion Shot a full five times over the next thirty seconds. Serpent's Quickness doesn't need any points in WS to make Archers Signet to cycle.

Maybe I should post the builds... jzf 10:34, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * The real problem is that concussion shot is not easy to use. -Silk Weaker 10:55, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I've had a lot of success with it, but I do use interupts alot... Also "This skill will daze the target if it hits while they are casting a spell. It does not have to succeed in interrupting the target to daze them" jzf 11:24, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I have to say I see no real reason to use archer's signet instead of Marksman's Wager, as they both have 2 second cast, are unstrippable, and with 9+ Expertise, marksman's will make most, if not all attacks cost nothing, or gain energy. the only exception is concussion shot, but even that costs a mere 1~5 energy with high expertise. And marksman's wager is more active, as well as being useful as an energy gain, instead of merely free attacks. The only time I have ever... ever, used this skill, is when I cap it. Usually so that my Broad Head Arrow costs 0 energy instead of 8. Hardly anything, but semi-useful. Hardly elite.

Elite Bow Attacks
Funny notice, the game doesn't count using elite bow attacks as actual bow attacks to the count, meaning, you can use eg. 50 punishing shots without any costing energy. Of course, you can only find this out by capping or Arcane Mimicry. p.s. haven't managed to test this in ages, could have been fixed.. Slvrwolf 06:56, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Seems to work as expected now. I only tried quick shot, though. --Fyren 17:19, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Remaining attack counter?
From the notes: "The number of remaining attacks is not displayed on the icon for Archer's Signet in the Effects Monitor." What skills do do this? --68.187.144.197 08:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Update
Updated the progression table --Fexghadi 02:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Lame?
Is this worthy of the infamous lame tag? Lazuli 00:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably, better skills have gotten the lame tag. Arcdash 19:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This skill sucks for one reason, basically; You need to pump Exp high to use it effectively. When you have 13+ Exp, you can basically spam your skills anyways! Esp if you take Scav Strike, Prep Shot or something alike. So, yeah. Lame. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  19:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Like it says on page, the only skill you could ever need to use this with is Concussion Shot. Now, if you are under the effects of Quickening Zephyr or other energy draining thing, this may be more useful, but not really. Combining with the old version Expert's Dexterity was also lol, because you could use 75e Concussion Shot for free! :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I think what this skill really needs is more "promote active playstyle" loving. It could maintain the same basic concept, but needs a drastically reduced duration, recharge time, and reduce number of affected bow attacks to like 1...3.

Or, slight functionality change would make all bow attacks cost X less energy or X% less energy for Y seconds, since having them be "free" doesn't justify the current stats (because Expertise itself already reduces energy costs, etc.) Oh, and cast time needs to be at least 1 second before it would ever see use in PvP, even if buffed suchly. (T/C) 10:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 1s cast time, 30s recharge. Your non-attack skills are disabled for 15...5 seconds and for 10 seconds your next 1...7 attack skills cost 2...30% less energy. Something like that? Basically gives 150% expertise reduction for a limited number of attack skills and can be kept up half the time. Ezekiel  [Talk]  11:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I overbuffed a bit (10 attacks in 15s), seeing as at 15 expertise you would get a 90% reduction, which with a ranger's regen means a 10 cost skill every second without losing energy. Ezekiel  [Talk]  11:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Obaby, that would be hawt... o_O Sundering Hornbow of Marks, Penetrating Attack, Sundering Attack, Power Shot, repeat. Or actually, use a zealous bow, and while this is active you would be gaining energy. That's madness xD but I like it...it would perhaps actually be used then, instead of being totally useless like it is now. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 11:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know they have prepared shot for that, which was enough last time I tried it. Also, apart from that expertise is usually enough for maintaining energy, so I doubt anybody would ever use this. But I do agree that it needs change, as it is now it's nothing more than an elite - but bad - attacker's insight...I'll think of something and post a suggestion on Izzy's talk page :P 62.194.247.7 12:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with Prepared Shot is that you are relying on it to hit for your energy gain; being a signet, this is unstrippable goodness without the potential conditionals. Also, Prepared Shot doesn't have a one second cast time so it interrupts your chain every X seconds, which is enough for a (smart) Ranger to lay the hurt on with dshot. One thing I am thinking is that if you ran this at high expertise, you'd be getting a lot of "spare" energy which maybe you would want to invest for something like Mirror of Disenchantment. That would both be unexpected and highly surprising (at least the first time). Hmm. I kinda wanna try that in AB now, if only this skill worked like that. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:11, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're definitely right there :P Either way, there's still Scavenger's Focus for godly e-management, but I guess everything has it's pros and cons. Currently working on several suggestions, maybe he'll listen and we got a new Archer's Signet soon :P 62.194.247.7 12:26, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Prepshot has a 6 second recharge; Archer's Sig has a 45 second one. And Prepshot is decently reliable and doesn't make you unable to use N-Stride or such when you need it. This was essentially the counterpart of the old ED. --☭Guild *talk* 12:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I was comparing it to the theoretical buffed version by Ezekiel. Scavenger's Focus is great but requires you to take a pet; taking a pet means you already lose a skill slot at the very least. Worth it? Dunno...If the disable was 15...5 seconds and you were running at high expertise (which would seem logical) then you'd only lose Natural Stride for 5 seconds (so yeah you'd have to play smarter with it, but...meh, it always has a bit of downtime anyway). If it was recharging anyway, it wouldn't matter, since it is disable and not "additional disable". [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:36, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Scavenger's Focus ;) - either way, Archer's Signet is bad now, the above improvement wouldn't do much with the "free" part, but cast/recharge would be much better. But even then I think there are better elites :/ 62.194.247.7 12:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops, I was thinking of Scavenger's Strike. Problem with Scavenger's Focus (problem? o_O) is that it gives way too much energy, to the point that you can't possibly use all of it; in the time it lasts you could easily gain ~200 energy with high WS and an IAS, and not even an Elementalist can burn through that very quickly. Also because it's an elite solely for managing energy, but compared to Prepared Shot or even this it lacks any other additional effects...so its intrinsic utility value is lower (although that applies more to PvP). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Archer's Signet does not have any utility value apart from making several attack skills free - or in the above suggested case near-free. I have to agree that Scavenger's Focus does not add any utility, but it does alow for an energy heavy bar. In fact it allows for actual spamming of Concussion Shot without many problems or - as you already suggested - bring something like Cry of Frustration/Mirror of Disenchantment. Therefore I disagree that Focus would have less utility than this Signet. Either way, it depends on how ya look at it; ppl also run Warrior's Endurance solely for e-management in some GvG/HA builds 62.194.247.7 12:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC) PS I should make an account again >,< Edit again: Apparently I still had my user, just didn't log in for like two years Shai Meliamne 12:56, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Warrior's Endurance is in an attribute line which gives inherent bonus anyway (Strength) plus access to a bunch of kickass skills (including good utility). And Axes conveniently can cause Weakness and Cripple in addition to terrifying damage at the same time. Hence WE in PvP. :)
 * Wilderness Survival by comparison is meh...the skills that anyone uses are Natural Stride, Apply Poison, and Troll Unguent. The rest isn't really used much or useful. Concussion Shot can be spammed using this, Scavenger's, or even the good old Marksman's Wager. Ah well. We all agree (well, the whole world agrees) that this needs to see a buff of some sort. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * WE is in a useful attribute line I agree, but WS has enough skills to make it a useful attribute imo. Even if it isn't Scavenger already gives +7 per hit on rank 6. Either way I guess WE is indeed better since it can be kept up indefinitely and is unconditional (or at least less conditional). But yeah, we all agree that this needs a buff, so I've suggested some (possibly overpowered) changes :) Shai Meliamne 13:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * "And Axes conveniently can cause Weakness and Cripple in addition to terrifying damage at the same time." Not in PvP. They only cause DW, and KD with Bull's Strike and Shock. Just saying. Oh, and every self respecting Warrior uses Strength, anyhow, and the ability to spam Power Attack and Protector's Strike on recharge is the reason people use WE. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Needs more Axe Rake/Axe Twist. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

oopdat
Well, at least it does something now. :\ You can cause a very long daze with Concussion Shot, a very long cripple with Pin Down, a very long Bleeding with Hunter's Shot, etc. Plus obviously long Poison. Still, I'm not sure if I'd take a two-second cast time elite just for that... (T/C) 07:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I really think it's worse now than it was before. Maybe if Apply Poison didn't renew poison on every attack, or if every condition-causing attack skill had a longer recharge than duration, or if monks didn't carry condition removal, this could maybe almost be viable. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 07:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * update notes say cast time reduced to 1s. Ezekiel  [Talk]  11:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)