Talk:Hell's Precipice (mission)/Archive 1

Addition
I just added a number 10 tip about using Greater Conflagration and Winter. Worked out for me, since I finished the mission on my first time. Luckily I also had a fantastic team which didn't leroy or anything else stupid --BeeD 20:29, 7 February 2007 (CST)

This tip really works, i just did mission with henchies. With winter and greater conflagration all monsters seems to die very quick, specially fist and hands, didnt have time to use signet.


 * Oh what? You mean that tip wasn't already on the mission page? Madness! Build:R/any Winter Ranger >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Flesh Golem Bug
I am not sure what the statement about Flesh Golem having "bugged" damage against the Lich really means. I just killed the Lich with a group of 6 human players with 2 of my heroes. I was the Minion Master and did not notice any unreasonably high damage being done to the Lich by my Fleshie. I could not experiment more with my Fleshie because he unfortunately died and I waited too long to resurrect him, so his body disappeared. Has this "bug" been fixed? Has anyone experimented more with an MM? Dracon 00:49, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * removed it, plus merged some of the other tips into one and made 2 sections for it. Didn't really serve any purpose the way it was imo. --Erszebet 14:29, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Killing Lich
"You must kill him on the very center of the bloodstone to charge the Soul Batteries and close the Door of Komalie. If you kill him anywhere else, even a single step off the center, he will revive with full health."

This is a fake. The lich will revive full health three times, period. If someone feels like making the change in the article, I dont have much time right now. If none, I will do it later.
 * No, your information is fake. I have successfully killed him two separate times on the first try out of 3 times total doing this mission.  Just because you 'think' you killed him on the center does not mean you did.  You could have been lagging a little and he was in the lava at the time the last blow was delt or he was just outside the inner circle.  Pay closer attention and organize your group better next time you do this mission. | 68.226.60.106 10:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I am certain that I have killed him after one try, two tries and three tries. I am not as certain where exactly he has to be. There were times when he died the first time but was not exactly in the center and times when we thought we nailed him and he popped right back. I do believe right now that the center of the Bloodstone is the most logical theory. But there is no question that he dies in less attempts due to some factor. --Karlos 12:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless, I'm fairly sure that killing him the third time always results in a win regardless of where he is. If anyone's had to kill him four or more times, feel free to correct me.


 * Just finished mission (with 4 people oh lord it took forever). First two times we killed him two of the soul batteries lit up (each time) as he wasn't in centre. Third time was final death and he seemed like he was in the middle. - BeXoR 02:01, 22 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Finished the mission, with henchmen, and I found that I had to kill him twice, once he stood outsice the bloodstone, and when I killed him, he respawned inside the circle, and we had to kill him again, when we killed him for the second time, he died in the centre of the circle, which ended the mission. Also, I found that henchmen can target the purple flying orbs that he uses, perhaps just an error, but they targeted and killed the orbs he was using, while I continued to fire at the lich, occassionally shooting one or two when I used barrage. Obsidian The Great 02:14, 31 October 2006 (CST)


 * Just finished the mission with a group of humans. We killed the lich once, and he was nowhere near the center (not even on the bloodstone whatsoever), and it finished the mission. I find it highly unlikely that it was lag, as multiple people in chat were directing people to kill him on the bloodstone, and one person drew on the compass as well. Something very, very strange is going on here. Apeiron 22:58, 21 December 2006 (CST)


 * The same thing just happened to me. Killed the Lich one time, and he was standing in the lava. Mission complete! It's strange, though, I've cleared the mission multiple times now and this is the first time I've only had to kill him once. Every other time it was twice or three times, somewhere on or near the center. Entropy 00:31, 31 December 2006 (CST)


 * More research data: Did this mission again with a friend, we got a mission completion on only one kill. Lich wasn't exactly on the center but he was at least on the stone. Entropy 18:08, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I've added a dispute tag to that section section of the article. I also cleaned up the text around it to describe the different Lich death circumstances in dispute. The main thing I wanted to fix was that the text directly contradicted itself a couple times. My own experience last night was that three deaths in the circle but not at the center completed the mission, but I was not watching the soul batteries to see if some of them were activated on each death. — HarshLanguage 18:09, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Howdy. After reading this discussion, one tiny thought came up... Could it be possible that the times you have to kill the Lich Lord is actually depending on what you have done before during this mission. For example killing a lot of other creatures makes killing the Lich easier or something else like that.Fall Satyrian 09:47, 24 January 2007 (CST)Fall Satyrian


 * It just took me 3 kills of the Lich to finish the level. The first two were in the exact centre and the last he was half way between the middle and edge of the stone. Perhaps its related to the amount of time you spend doing the mission? I know I was afk for a while in the middle of it (I was with henchies). -arual 14:24, 28 January 2007 (CST)


 * Just killed the lich while on a skill capping run. Took killing him 2 times.  First was out of the circle and charged 4 of the 6 batteries, second was in the circle, dunno if it was exact center or not.  --Rainith 23:04, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * I killed the lich with henchies some weeks ago, took me only one kill in the almost center of the stone. I didnt do bonus but i killed almost every possible monster you can see on the map without bonus. So i pretty much think that the number of kills is completely random.

Maybe everyone is overlooking a very obvious mechanic of how to kill the Lich. My thoughts are: Kill him right on the stone and it's all over. Otherwise he'll come back and you get another shot at killing him. The 3rd time is the last try, even if you don't kill him on the stone it's game over. Pretty simple right? 132.203.83.38 00:07, 8 March 2007 (CST)

I have killed the Litch a great many times in this mission (at least all my 10 PvE chars, and innumerable other times helping guildies since I've been an officer in a large PvE guild since summer 05). In all that time I've only had about 3 or so of the "dead centre" kill-in-one type of kills, these were well spaced out over time, with more than a year between the first and the most recent, so I've no reason to believe that updates have every changed the mechanics of Litch-killing. The rest of the wins have been got by the "3 kills anywhere and he's dead" method, and for that method you don't have to kill him in any particular place, as long as he'd died twice before that. My supposition is that the "centre of the bloodstone" is a point location, not an area, and I have experienced killing him in what I thought was the exact centre only to see him bounce back up sometimes. It may also be helpful to point out that all my kill-in-one events occurred on the first kill of the litch, I have never been able to make a second kill count for the kill in one, no matter how well positioned he appears to be, and it may be that if the centre condition is not met in the first kill, it lapses and you're then required to kill him the full three times.


 * Here is the true facts summed up from everything above:


 * The Lich can take anywhere from one to three "deaths" before he truly dies.
 * Where he dies in relation to the Bloodstone is irrelevant.
 * It is possible to get a one-death win with the Lich being anywhere - even off the Stone.
 * It's possible to get a win after two deaths.
 * No instances have been recorded of a win taking more than three deaths.
 * And it's that simple! I hope there is never any more confusion. :S [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Maybe the Lich gets infected by some private, unseeable condition when he gets on the bloodstone. Such as he goes on the bloodstone, gets off, but the condition's time is still on him. Just a thought.

I was in a group the other day and we killed Lich once but he came back alive again so we carried on but got cained by hand of the titans etc the group wasn't brill. SO i left when i came back i was in Droknars forge and it showed id completed the mission which as far as i know i hadnt. Maybe you kill him but the mission doesn't close all the time and works by the third try.

Here is a therory; maybe on his first death just killing him lights up 2 bloodstones making it take 3 deaths, killing him in a gd spot will light up 4 taking 2 deaths and in an excelent position it will light up 6 aka 1 kill. dont hold me on this coz im still in augry rock (first time playing) nd hav no idea about this but it occured to me so...tnx Wolfman

That is certainly interesting. I know that a three-kill run does do that, lighting up 2 or so per death, and that a one-kill run lights them all up at once. But I don't remember the last time it was a two-kill run, if it was exactly 4 batteries that recharged...if it was, then I think you may be right. Different positions correspond to different amounts of batteries, and no matter what way you do it, eventually they all light up and he's dead then. I wonder if it is possible to get one, three, or five lit up at once...or if it only counts in even numbers. Or if you can kill him and get zero lit up? It's too bad getting to the Lich for these kinds of tests takes awhile and isn't something you feel like repeating over and over for research... (T/C) 18:30, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It honestly seems completely random. I'm going to run through the mission today so I can probably do some testing; I wish it didn't take so long though. The Hobo 16:41, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Spam Filter
I changed the spelling of the bonus curse 'Sh*th Mal Hacto!' to 'S-h-i-t-h Mal Hacto!' so it would allow the page to pass the spam filter on saving. Queen of Spades 14:22, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Pool of lave spawn
Contradictory notes in the bonus description. The first tip says the pool of lava will spawn three bosses. Then, the last paragraph says it will spawn two. Does anyone know which is correct?
 * Actually 3 Armaggedon Lords spawn, not two, just trying to help Obsidian The Great 06:00, 30 October 2006 (CST)


 * On my last run the three Armaggedon Lords spawned, but the lava pool also spawned two bosses.

There are three bosses appearing in the area (not counting the Armageddon Lords), but only two of them spawn from the lava pool; the third is already there from the start. Copperthorn 22:15, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Recent Run
I would like to say i love this wiki, but I'm sad to say that the infomation on this article about the lich is horably inaccurte. While the all facts on how to kill the lich requires further testing I'm 100% sure that killing him in the absolute center of the circle DOSE NOT finish the mission. My party (of 4 :P) had to kill him 3 times to win, each and every time we killed him in the absoulute center of the blood stone. The only question is, can you kill him off the stone 3 times and still win? --Cantspel (sorry for the spelling :P)

Sefog: Killing him in the centre does kill him, sometimes, when you kill him after he has moved, he appears to stand in the middle, but is standing on the edge. The best way to fix this is to get your party to run out of the area and re engage the lich, as he travels directly to the centre if there are no players to attack.


 * Just to add a note here, when I killed him last week, I ended up killing him two times before he was dead dead. The second and final time when I killed him, he did not appear to be in the center.  --Rainith 16:09, 11 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Quick note: I have completed this mission MANY times, and I can assure you that it IS possible to kill the Lich in one try (I did it last night)

Superfluous "tip"
Removed the following from the Notes section: "If you are having trouble finding a good group, you may consider using henchmen to complete the mission. A good group consists of: Mhenlo, Lina, Little Thom, Devona, Dunham, Eve, and Aidan." O...kay... Well, that goes without saying for all missions, so why single this one out? Superfluous, pointless comment. 89.240.227.230 03:45, 12 December 2006 (CST)


 * LoL. Captain Obvious strikes again. 144.132.238.126 00:50, 29 December 2006 (CST)

i just did it with 3 people ><

Invincible Team Glitch
When i did this mission with my ranger there was a glitch that caused me to sink into the ground about shin deep that stopped me from moving and taking damage. Soon after this some of my team members died so i rebirthed them to me but this caused them to stand on my head and not to take any damage or move. As most of us were rangers and elementalists we killed the seer and completed the mission.

Im sure this was just luck or a very bad glitch and has probably been removed and cannot happen again. I was just lucky.

It isn't just luck. It is possible to walk into walls and kill monsters that are standing under the bridge your standing on while you are using sword attacks. You just need to know where these places are, but i assure you Canta is full of them. I found a few in Prophecies, and none sofar in Nightfall. BugExploiter 14 June 2007

Earth Damage
I might be crazy but the Lich seemed to be particularly weak to Earth Damage. I also did this mission twice pretty much in a row (late 2/18 early 2/19), and Lich died away from stone both times. Mission ended no problem.


 * It's been shown that the Lich is weak to Fire and Cold damage, so I wouldn't be surprised. And yes, it's also been shown that the Lich can die off the stone. [[Image:Entrophic Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:40, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Slowing the Lich and other Hell
I just finished this mission minutes ago and wanted to add a little successful tip to share. I used Ice Prison, along with a couple other earth damage skills and water skills to slow the Lich down. I found that slowing him down really improved how fast he dies (also, it took my party to kill him 3 times, on and off the center of the bloodstone).

I'm thinking that for those of you who are impatient and like to yell at other party members, considering having casters who can slow the Lich and the other fire creatures down is a major plus. It allows other players to snatch a few seconds of repose from constant skill or spell usage.


 * Erm...how does a snare help speed up kills? The Lich doesn't move, and Ice Prison does nothing to impede skill/spell usage. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

h Mal Hacto
As you aproach the part where the paths split (See main map) some Burning Titans and the Boss shout "h Mal Hacto" as they come down the slope towards you. Has anyone else sen this and any idea what it means? Demonica the Cursed 08:33, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
 * The fact that it dashes it out is pretty funny. On one target that I sometimes feel the need to call, it says, "I am attacking ed Cleric!" Priceless! -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 01:59, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * "Shith Mal Hacto!" It only does the ---'s if you chat filter is on. Which it shouldn't be. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:52, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

i hate that shout skill...like every time i forget about it and get owned by 10 little sparks. does that boss always use the shout or is it only on occasion? Oh another thought, is this a skill by chance? or is it just dialog? :-)


 * Just dialogue. I believe (never tested) that even if you were to charge up and eliminate that boss and the Burning Titan with him, the Sparks would still come running anyways. It is always used, as soon as you get into range. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Change to Rurik behavior
It used to be that after the cutscene where Undead Prince Rurik appeared, he would stay on top of the hill with his two Sparks and wait for you to attack. But now, he will charge down the hill and attack you instead, with no provocation. He drags the Sparks with him as well, making for a tough fight - since you'll have at least four Hand of the Titans to deal with as well.

Additionally, it used to be that if you did not skip the cutscene, four Hands would rush you, and four would retreat behind the other side of the hill. This no longer seems to be the case. Four will still attack, but the other four may or may not run away. I've had all eight come and attack at once before.

Lastly, it used to be that if you skip the scene, some Hands would end up on the hill with Rurik, waiting for aggro. This no longer happens, now even if you skip, they'll be down there and charge you.

I don't have any idea when these changes were made but they wiped me a few times at least >.> The new best strategy is to pull a retreat right after the scene (skip or not), so as to drop the aggro of either Rurik and Sparks or Titans. Only a very skilled party with good Monks could survive an all-out assault by two Sparks of the Titans, eight Hands of the Titans, and Undead Prince Rurik. (T/C) 15:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * This new behavior must have been a very recent update, since my necro completed Hell's about 2 weeks ago. I skipped the cutscene and basically nothing moved until I aggro'ed it. --8765 16:00, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It must be a very, very, very recent update, 'cause I finished this mission yesterday (see history, added some stuff) and he just stood there on top of his hill. I didn't skip the cutscene, and four hands rushed to me, other four ran away propbably because I backed off. --Erszebet 16:28, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I swear that that's what happened to me just two or three days ago. I don't have any clue anymore what is going on... >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:35, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

I just did the mission a few minutes ago (6th April, by my timezone anyway) and I havn't had anything of that sort. They didn't come out at all till we attacked. --58.84.172.16 11:54, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess Entropy got really unlucky :p I reverted his edit but added a small note about it that it can happen, everybody happy I hope :) --Erszebet 12:51, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Entropy's a girl, just so you know --Gimmethegepgun 18:25, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

I did it yesterday, and he didnt come down til we entered his aggro Eric368 12:41, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

I just did Hells today... twice... and both times we skipped the cut scene and nothing aggro'd till we pulled it. perhaps you were lagging a bit and one of your party members walked to far forward and was able to get back to the group before anyone noticed... bringing "hitchhikers" with them..?

Bonus
Yesterday and this morning I've been trying to do the bonus, following the guidelines here. But everytime I try, I don't even have time to properly *lure* the Sparks and Ashen Hulks away! The moment I approach even them, they run at the Seer like their life depends on it, and the bonus is ruined. I have tried this from both directions, even tried to shoot them with a flatbow. Has anyone gotten a better trick then 'take out the guys in front first'? If not, I think someone should include a sentence with 'take a good prot monk.' Sidar 03:15, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

EDIT: Never mind, I've gotten the bonus now. Turned out it depends on the spawns- sometimes the whole group of Hulks and Sparks rushes to the Seer no matter what you do, and sometimes they don't, depending on where they spawned. Sidar 04:28, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Not 'Never Mind', the article is incorrect. There should be a note about them rushing the Seer while the article claims they ignore him.


 * I ran the mission yesterday with Heroes & Henchmen in Normal Difficulty, and while I didn't have any enemy mobs rush the Seer, I did have to rush TO the seer in order to save her, contrary to what the article says. The seer was fighting one Titan and while I'm not sure if the titan was fighting back, the burning damage was more than sufficient to almost kill the Seer.  I was barely able to keep the seer alive long enough to clear the area.


 * Yet at the beginning of the month I did the mission with a team of Humans. They did not want to run the bonus and deliberately let The Seer die.  We cleared the forward area and watched the seer die a slow burning death which took about a minute to a single Burning Titan.  In that case, the Titan was definitely not fighting back.


 * It does appear to be the 'luck of the spawn'. I think it does warrant some changes to the main article, but I don't have time to do it properly right now. HolyCrusader 05:52, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Endgame rewards
what are the rewards at the end of the game once you have beaten this campaign? Weapons, armour? I need to know this...Andokool12 12:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No you want to know but i'll tell you, when you beat this campain you can play the titan quests to save the world from the titans, i'll tell you know its not easy, also now hard mode will be usable for this campain.24.77.61.194 19:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Oh ok, then what's that armour from i think it's endgame armour, that looks like ascalon armour but a little more.... Leathery. Same type of helmet but armour is more like gladiator armour. Is it from Endgame Factions or Endgame NF?Andokool12 12:39, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Look here -Ezekiel 04:31, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

There's no item like the Amulet of the Mists at the end of Prophecies. There isn't a material benefit to finishing this campaign like there is for the other two. Also, there aren't any armor crafters that can only be reached by finishing the last mission. In short, there's not a good reason to finish this campaign unless you just feel like it.

Tip 4 on the prof specifc tips
seems bs.. when you cap an elite with an elite in you skill bar you do not get both elites... you ar left with an empty skill slot (but you do capture the skill). I'm not sure what patch update made this not work.. but it defently dosn't. So, I'd like to remove this tip.
 * You seem to have never captured an elite while having one equipped. It does work. It does not leave you with an empty skill slot until you enter a different explorable, such as when re-entering an outpost and/or entering a new explorable area. --Kale Ironfist 03:44, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

You definitely have not capped an elite while having another equipped. A-Net has not changed this feature of the game. You keep both elites until you zone. The only instance where what you're saying would be considered even remotely applicable is when you cap an elite, have two, then zone from one explorable area to another, and are left with an empty slot.66.66.71.57 04:37, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

there IS one instance where capping an elite with another elite on your bar will leave you with an empty space on your bar without zoning or going to town. It has little to do with Hells Precipice or even prophecies but if you are in a wurm in Nightfall and cap an elite, that spot will change to the corresponding wurm skill for that slot and when you are ejected from the wurm will be a blank spot on your bar.... just a little trivia.. :/

Not sure what you are all talking about, but I have capped two skills, more than once....and, in addition, capped an elite skill with one already in my bar.....they remained in the skill bar until i returned to post.

Added Hard Mode Section
I've only added extra relevant info I regard are useful as a monk and, very likely there may be better skills or tactics that improves over it, but I've managed to complete hard mode on the first try without any party members dying. However we did bring 3 monks in total (2 heroes and myself) and I wager had highly experienced party members that gave the extra edge. Reichi Aryon 19:04, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * The tips for the monk(s) in Hard Mode are good. I just completed the mission in Hard Mode with just Heros and Henchmen.  I used 2 Monk heros and one Hench monk.  I made one Monk hero a Protection monk and the other a Healing monk.  Both had Frigid Armor, and I used Frigid armor for myself as well.  I was a Warrior/Elementalist with a Warrior interruption build using Skull Crack. ImperialMike 10:48, 3 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Just finished Hard Mode with hench/heros: 3 monks(1 hench), 1 nec hench, 1 water ele, 2 war hench, 1 domination mes. Took a while, but the saving factor that made it possible was LIFE BARRIER. With life barrier, the mission seemed relatively easy, albeit long. 66.32.253.192 21:10, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Fridgid Armor
I used it on my Assassin and i still got the burning from the titans. Can anyone else recheck?

Ashen Hulks use Strip Enchantment. Could that be your problem? King Neoterikos 21:26, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

winter?
I've not noticed that they are weaker when I used Winter. My fire magic was doing the same damage. At least to the Titans. Is there something I am missing or are the enemies not really weaker to cold damage than fire damage?&mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:37, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Unless something changed recently, they should be weaker to cold damage. I'll check this out tonight if I have time. BigAstro 16:44, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * On an unrelated note, where would a random meteor hit come from if I'm only near a warrior fist of the titans? I don't see anything about an environment effect but something called meteor hit me, interrupt and kd. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 16:59, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The volcano spews out rocks that hit certain spots and look like meteors. It's kind of an environmental effect. --Macros 17:05, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I tested it with my fire ele and Winter doesn't appear to have any effect on damage now. I did this mission at most 2 months ago and the titans were indeed weak to cold damage at the time. BigAstro 20:00, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I have tested this somewhat thoroughly and I figured out that Ice spells do indeed do more damage but fire spells do not do more damage when winter is active. I don't know if this intentional or a glitch, but it doesn't seem normal. Ryve 1:03, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, what this means is that it is Winter itself which is bugged, not the Hell's Precipice or the Titans. Bad news for Eskimo teams everywhere... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:17, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Did this mish 4 times now all heroes/hench and did not notice ANY difference using winter/greater coflagration or not :/ ... Also Melonni did WAY more dmg with Balthazar avatar than with Grenth(cold dmg) regardless of winther or not. Also, cold weapons did less dmg than vampiric, regardless of Winther. Bugged Winther or changes to titan resistance ??? Or just my bad ? 8-) I used main Ranger/any.. And I never even saw the dam bonus-starter on the map or with +alt, grrr... Trying one more time to RUSH to the seer to check if it pops earlier than guide stated now (Vivi Morgenstierne ingame)(july 21. 2007)
 * The reason for Melonni to deal more damage with AoB than AoG is probably the natural armor of the Titans. (seeing as Rodgorts invocation acts like a superpowered flare without a damage increase on a Burning Titan)

Winter - The definition of winter says it turns ALL elemental damage to cold. So, translation, if you use fire, or earth, or air, it all becomes cold damage, so it really should not matter if ur ele uses fire; if u have winter, the fire damage will become cold? Correct? or not ?
 * That's the way it's SUPPOSED to be, but it seems to be glitched --Gimmethegepgun 23:09, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

How to Solo the mission and bonus with Heroes+Henchmen combo:
(Removed by Author.) --MagickElf666 23:30, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This mission was never difficult, even with henchmen only, and back in the days of proph-only. Now, we got heros, new skills, flag commands, etc. Unfortunately, there are still people who may find such a guide useful to them. Either way, this guide is a little overkill on detail. --8765 18:14, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, definitely overkill as written. A lot of those points are either general tips for the mission or general tips for H&H (or extensions of them: "flag H&H away from enemies then pull enemies to them" is a strategy that everyone using H&H should know).  Also, there's nothing special about any specific builds - I did it with two SF/interrupt eles and a Barrage/Winter ranger for heroes, letting Mhenlo and Lina take care of healing, with Devona as the tank and Claude as the battery.  And I did it this way on both my warrior and my mesmer.
 * Condense it down to a few important strategies/tips for H&H that are specific to this mission, then it might have a place in the article. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:49, 28 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't know if there is anything in the above walkthrough that isn't already in the article one way or another. I don't think the hero setup is anything special either. There are too many effective ways to set up heroes for this mission to start adding specific builds. Also, MagickElf, the bosses spawn randomly in this mission. BigAstro 19:20, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The 4 times I did this mission in a row (mainly to unlock Aura of the Lich, Hundred Blades, Greater Conflagration, and the first time to complete the mission itself) I got the same exact spawns. Maybe I just got lucky, but The boss after the seer was Always the ranger, the last boss coming out of the lava was always a necro, and there was always a warrior boss patrolling the Portals. But yeah, it is very detailed. I tend to do that a lot.. I decided to remove it, so it wouldn't take up valuable Wiki space. --MagickElf666 23:30, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Hand Farming
At the lava pool, where the hands just keep respawning, would it be feasable or profitable to farm exp and/or molten claws/titan armor? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ravien Coromana (contribs).
 * Probably not, they don't spawn very fast nor do they spawn indefinitely. There are much faster ways to make money. BigAstro 10:51, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, okay. It just seemed to me, as soon as I killed one, another popped up in the lava pool, like they're reborn. XD sorry for not signing the previous comment. Now I feel like a noob. Ravien Coromana 10:57, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Ranger Tip
Because Winter still appears to be bugged, someone should remove the tip about Greater Conflag. and Winter. Greater Conflag. does indeed work, converting all physical to fire, but winter won't convert that over to cold, reducing your team's damage output.