GuildWiki talk:Armor galleries project

In archive:

* # Discussion A general discution on the project * # Your Tick Everyone can use the tick * # Moving to project Was accepted * # Gray base color Genral discution on the new dye system * # Dye preview for headgear? Wasn't accepted * # Good?? Helping a new guy * # Accidental misnaming... * # Better this time?? Helping another guy * # April Fools * # Ranger Ancient Armor

New s & f
Aratak made a gallery template and I revised the gallery s & which you can read here: Style and formatting/Armor/Art gallery. I will be starting to update all of the armor galleries. I've already got screenshots for female Canthan and Shing Jea Mesmer armor and I am about to take the male ones also. I suppose I will adopt all the Mesmer galleries and try get new screenshots for all the armor types that are easy to get or that I have already. I made a list here which shows which ones I plan to get or have already done. I can do a few of the other professions armors too. So sign me up! - BeXoR   21:39, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Question
I just updated Mesmer Prophecies Masks/Female to reflect the current s & f. I will do male later when I take the screenies (masks are sitting in inventory). I noticed these pages: Mesmer Attribute Headgears, Mesmer Headgear as well as Mesmer Prophecies Masks. Why are there so many? - BeXoR   22:57, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * Another thing I noticed: I've been using my pve chars to make the images. The dye was getting expensive (I don't have that much money but its 1p for each armor set). I thought I would try a pvp char, but the default armor colour is silver not gray. So make sure if you use a pvp char to buy some gray dye! - BeXoR  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 18:28, 7 January 2007 (CST)

Delete
A reminder to those working on this project: Put delete tags on the images you have replaced. And don't forget to check the "what links here" section and replace the image on those pages with your new one (for example you should check main gallery (Mesmer armor) art gallery (Ascalon Armor) headgear gallery (Assassin Headgear)). - BeXoR   10:34, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Post process effects
Can everyone remember to turn post process effects OFF before they take screenshots. It makes the pictures really blurry and tints the light. - BeXoR   01:55, 6 February 2007 (CST)
 * Are those ingame settings?? --[[image:questbrod.png]] 08:28, 6 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes go to Options (F11), choose the "Graphics" menu and then scroll down and make sure that the box for "Enable post-processing effets" if not on.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  09:04, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Getting Going Again? Yay
I was wondering if this project was dead. It's good to see Bexxor & Aratak getting back into it. :D Craw   08:53, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was too busy to play for a while, now I'm playing again and buying new armor. ;) - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 09:20, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I first tought that the gallery at the official wiki would be to awesome to continue this one but not to Emily's fault they ain't great. The renders arn't that great :( Also I have to finish my master degree so I have less free time.  Most of my free time goes to play and not wiki.    Also one of my account is the CE.  If anyone know how to get the divine aura off I'll get some high end armor for the male monk.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  10:43, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I'm levelling my necro & sin right now, and I am buying all the cheap armor sets as I go - also planning on buying 15k Canthan for ranger female, 15k kurzick for mesmer (once she gets her Legendary Survivor), and 10k ancient for 'sin (Which is already done). If anyone wants to help me out there, donations of scales would go a long way. (Somehow I have a few thou cloth, leather and iron (even a few hundred parchment & steel) spread out over alt accounts, but only about 75 scales). Craw   10:50, 26 April 2007 (CDT)

Recent Submissions
A lot of the recent submissions are kind of sub par and do not fit the S&F requirements. I'm referring to: We really need to hammer in the fact that this 'Armor Galleries Project' is focused on the Style and Formatting part of things. Craw   13:57, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Warrior Ascended Gladiator's Armor - Blur & Lighting
 * Monk Ancient Armor - Height varies wildly.
 * Necromancer Istani Armor - Pose & angle.
 * 1 : The pose is not important. 2 : The monk armor is not mark has done, Bexor just click the wrong one and it have been fix. 3 : Yes the warrior glad ain't done right.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  19:37, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I accidentally marked the Ancient as done, when in fact I meant Elite Sunspear. And it was discussed a while ago only to use the pose when it improves the pictures, mainly because complaints about obscured hands, etc. In my necromancer's case, I found her head to be looking too far up and distorting headgear view, and they ended up fitting the ratio better anyway. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 21:18, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It kind of drives me insane how picky some people are about unimportant details. [A] This project is WAAAAAY too big to make everything look exactly the same and perfectly uniform. As long as the page LOOKS fine, it IS fine.  Remember, these galleries are for informational purposes for players who want see the armor choices they have before crafting, it's not some mega perfection race.  I have no problem with the template, it is a useful organization tool and I like it (though, it wasn't the most intuitive thing to use at first), but don't go picking at people if they took a screenshot with a slightly different angle, ratio, or location. [B] Most wiki viewers won't even notice those things, or care about them.  If it's the correct color, correct position (front/back/profile) and fairly neutral lighting, leave it alone.  Most of you know how much work and time it takes to create one complete armor gallery, and if it ain't broke, don't say "fix it." [C] And for Christ's sake, stop doing the /attention poses, if you can help it.  It clips the hands/elbows/knees in like 95% of the armor sets, and looks kind of... dumb.  How often do you see people in town standing in that pose?  --Yes, I know some people might not like parts or all of this comment, but this is simply what my common sense tells me. RoseOfKali 04:16, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * We already had the discussion about the poses, and it generally came down to 'use whichever you want'. I personally prefer it because it makes it a lot easier to fit the image in the frame, and to line everything up.  You fail to see so much of the standard female armors in the standard poses, because of the way they twist their bodies, and it looks messy with the way every image considers a slightly different angle to be the 'front'.  Craw  </tt> 10:30, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * And who says that the "frame" is imperative over it's contents? A good way to center them is not on the face, but rather on the chest or leggings, and consider that the front, like in the female gallery here: Necromancer_Ascended_Canthan_Armor. It is not necessary to be centered on the head, since a separate image for headgear is always included.  If these were taken in the attention pose (I actually tried that), the hands would clip with the shorter "upper" skirt.  This armor has a lot of detail with the claws and such, so clipping makes it harder to discern what's what.  Slight angulation and assymetry from side to side make it easier to see it 3D, actually.  I think you can see all detail you could want to see in these shots, more so than if they were in /attention.  My main point is, please don't make attention poses if it clips things like that: Elementalist_Elite_Canthan_armor, or that: Necromancer_Elite_Luxon_armor.  Things are missing, and that's not perfection, it's a military lineup. RoseOfKali 13:25, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * P.S. Look at any technical drafts, they always have an angulated 45degree-or-so view of the item, along with straight front, top, and side.  A relaxed sideview in the galleries is not enough to see that 3D effect.  You really wanna be perfect? Do it like the technical drafts, then. RoseOfKali
 * Well, feel free to follow the standard Style & Formatting while replacing all the images that bug you. It's easier to complain than to do the work.  I think it's sensible the way we've done it thus far.
 * That being said, the necromancer elite canthan is a mess. Detail's down, lighting is off, image is a tad small and it's got headgear in the body shots. Thanks for pointing that out.  <font color=#000000>Craw  </tt> 10:46, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Necro Elite Canthan looks fine to me. You can clearly see the armor very well. And doesn't headgear belong in the body shots if its part of the armor set?&mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 11:02, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Craw, it's supposed to have headgear on the overview, but not in the component view, the headgear BELONGS to the set. And define "mess?"  There's plenty of detail to see, and then some.  Lighting is not off, Isle of the Nameless is not the ONLY spot in a 3-campaign game to take the shots.  Thank you, Jedi.  RoseOfKali 11:48, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The armor's supposed to be framed in a 1:3 aspect ratio. It pixelates during resizing otherwise.  Regarding lighting, take a look at the head/feet shot in component view.  Look at the legs?  Notice how the light's shining on the left side of her body?  It's doing that in all the shots, but it's hard to see due to detail loss and the darkness of the armor, it's occluding the armor view.
 * Whatever the case, I'm not going to get into a debate with RoseofKali. If anyone of the major contributors want to clarify the situation/image quality, please do so.  I'm done with this. <font color=#000000>Craw  </tt> 17:33, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * What's wrong with the warrior elite gladiator (female, I assume)? O_o The lighting seems pretty darn neutral to me, and jpg format blurs things slightly every time you save it (I remember reading something about no need to show every last darndest pixel on the armor in one of the comments around here).  If there are good enough reasons, I'll redo the shots and waste more time and dye, but they seem fine to me as they are.  Bexor reloaded the images for me, since I simply used the names that were already there, and they didn't conform to the template, so the extra save may have produced more blur, but still, it doesn't look hardly blurry anyway.  You can see all the detail you could ever want to see in that armor, and then some.  RoseOfKali
 * What's wrong with perfection? :P Everyone should be aiming at the best there it. The female gladiator is blurred a bit by the turned on post-process effect. Images are also not the same height and wight. It's A LOT better then nothing, or random shots though. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 06:56, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well this projet is not about having a gallery for every armor but about perfection. If you don't like the style and formating this is not the place to discust it.  Go at style and formating and get people envolve there.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  08:06, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Poki, the images were the same height when I first uploaded them, I specifically kept track of dimensions. If I get around to it, I will re-do them without the post-process effects.  I'm just broke right now, so don't have dyes. RoseOfKali
 * Nothing in an image is changed by saving it to your computer and reuploading it. If they look strange, then it was your original work, because I didn't edit or resave anything, just downloaded and uploaded. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 03:18, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I may have been wrong, I just read it somewhere on wiki on the jpg format, that it does do that. And I did make uniform dimensions, other than for the helm.  I will re-do the gallery once I get around to it.  It's good enough for now. RoseOfKali 11:48, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Copying the file is lossless. Copying the image, as resaving it with an image editing programme, will recompress the already compress image and you will loose detail. :D&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  11:55, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

May 24th, 2007 update
A lot of links are going to need updating, preferably with bots. The request has been placed in the new bot project's queue. -- Gordon Ecker 19:25, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
 * 1500 edits in 3 days --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 03:33, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

image names
I know the Template:Armor art gallery currently uses uppercase for the image names. However all the articles have been ULC'ed (heh) so that armor is lower case. Are we going to change the image names or just continue using upper case for images or change template so that it will accept either and just start using lower case for the new images? Also, alot of images use Ascended in the name while pretty much all references are being changed to Elite to suit the recent update. My last set of questions again. Also, if this template is going to be used on all the galleries, the existing images will have to be replaced/renamed. If a bot/person were to move them is there any issue with copywrite? &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  13:48, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You can't move images. You have to download them, and then upload them again. Now, I would ignore the upper case in images. the name isn't THAT important then it comes to images. And the Ascended to Elite change is just moving the armor article and both galleries, downloading the images, renaming the armor name in the template and re-uploading them while providing a link to the original uploaded in the picture summary. Example: this image was originally uploaded by me, but Bexor re-uploaded it with a name fitting the template. I recently re-uploaded this image and also provided a link. It looks to me like the other professions just need more dedicated players that are willing to do the work ^^ &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 15:06, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That's what I meant by move hence my question about copywriting as moving would get rid of the original uploader. The articles have basically all been moved to the accomodate the ascended to elite so its just the images remaining. Wait for a bot or start manually moving citing the original contributor? &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 15:17, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * A Wiki Bot uses the wiki functions. Downloading a picture is not a Wiki function and I would assume that a bot can't do that. (though I have no idea how one exactly works ^^; ) I just opened the gallery in 2 tabs, changed the name in one and used the red links to get the name right while taking pictures from the gallery in the other tab. When I finished I placed delete tags on all the old images, also using the gallery as a link. And the credits where made by myself and then Ctrl + V into everything. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 15:54, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * more effort then benefit. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:28, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that the best way would simply to use the syntax. The template make the generation of a new gallery really easy but don't let you play around afterward.  So my idea would be to write all the gallery that use it with syntax and adapt the template to the new name.  Image can be copy if you name all the contributors on the page.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  23:25, 29 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Syntax? Don't know what you mean by that ^^; I was thinking that we can add a new parameter to the gallery. Something like "Old name". That way the header will have the new name, but the pictures will still have the old one and everything will look OK. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 06:57, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Style and formatting/Armor/Art gallery. Pretty much mean redo the gallery by hand.  I don't see how to do it without doubling the template.  Mayve jsute replace "  Armor " with  so we can input whatever is needed for that gallery without changing the header.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  07:39, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It should be simple enough to add an optional parameter to the template basically what Poki said. I think even I with my limited template skills could do that. This way, we won't have to move all the images, but if we make new galleries or adapt existing ones to the template, they would have the correct image names. Parameter being the  parameter in the file name if the parameter is given. Otherwise use the default . Does anyone see a problem with that? &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 15:07, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * OMG I DID IT! Wow. This is super easy and works like a charm. Does anyone mind if I implement this? (only tested on teh first image.. &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 15:38, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Hehe that is super easy, try it in the switch now, then we can implement it. Also you only change one name, you will end up with one parameter for each image.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  15:40, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Switch? Works for all the images now. There is probably a less verbose way to do that. Tested in the Slide. &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 15:52, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The only problem I still see is that it will name Armor and not armor the new galleries.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  16:29, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh yeah, the case in a image. Big woop. It's not that important. GW:ULC is for articles. GW:IMAGE is for images. Image names should just be descriptive. One letter does not justify re-uploading a hundred (and more) images. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:11, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * ? It's not about reuploading the image. The parameters will take care of the old name without having to do that but if we are changing the gallery migth as well make it rigth.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  18:31, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That... wasn't a sentence... I'm confused now. This if will allow the images with old armor names to be in the gallery with a different name than them. So Acended Wander's can be correctly placed in the Elite Woven armor gallery. The header will still show "Monk Elite Woven armor" but the images will be named Monk Ascended Wander's Armor..." If its a new image for a new gallery or a renamed image to fit the template it will still work if its say "Monk Elite Woven." The only issue would be for galleries that have images of both names (say some images are Ascended and some use the corret name of Elite). I think the template can be changed to use either assuming one file is in existence to account for this. The sample I tested with however currently shows the correct heading name and uses the old name for the images. &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 19:58, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Reformatting required
Most of the pages listed have armors that are not base gray of have a dark or otherwise inappropriate background that can't qualify the image as "passed" :/ &mdash; Poki#3, 07:10, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * if you feel an image really needs to be reshot, mark it so. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 22:00, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

oh man
I never thought about it but I went to take some images of some armor and I took about 20 images of this character and trying to figure out why they were smaller than the ones used on so many pages. And then I realized that my character was smaller. So if anyone else has this problem, thats why. lol &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  21:13, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * generally, for full frame shots, i zoom in until the characters ankles disapear beneith the skill bar (in the default layout, at small). then i take a known size image (say, 300x150) and paste the images into that box, and slide it around till it fits. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 21:59, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That's pretty much what I was doing. I got a PvP char, grabbed some grey dye and headed out on the Isle. I must have taken 50 screens. First it was too small. Then I got the right size and discovered that my graphics settings got lowered somehow and I was taking really crap quality. Finally, I got all the grey done. I dyed the armor. And then realized I forgot to take the grey from the side so I have to dye it grey again! This is totally torture. lol &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 22:28, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You should move the skill bar somewhere else and fit the fingers to the bottom of the screen. Graph of course maxed with AA, without Post Process. And don't worry. I had 4 sin armors in my inventory (2 gray, 2 yellow) and I mixed them up while making shots and had to re-do them... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 05:18, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I made up for all that when I did the male shots. I brought TWO sets of armor out there, dyed one grey and left the other colored (PvP char) and took all th eback facing pics at once. And then all the front facing and then the side facing. I only had to do 3 repositionings instead of a billion. It was like a thousand times easier. It was Ranger Fur-Lined armor btw. &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]] 12:53, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Non-symmetrical armor
It seems the standards in use here only want one side view screen shot. What about non-symmetrical armor which is not the same on both sides. Is there a policy for which side to take? I would normally think the side that's most noteworthy or has features not easily seen from the front and back views but sometimes that applies to both sides. What is done in those cases? &mdash; <font color=#7E6B99>JediRogue  15:17, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You can do something like this, but there are no rules. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 20:02, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Noteworthy side. If you take both sides, you'll have to construct the gallery tables yourself. Normal image ratio rules apply. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 00:12, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * i kinda wrestled with this on Warrior Elite Templar armor/Female, finally decided to shot the more complex side. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 03:32, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

/art
There are alot of subpages using images and such that don't appear to have any use. For example Ranger armor/Factions art/StandardOnly At first I assumed they were used as an inclusion but nothing links to them. And I don't see a need for them. They are one more place which needs to be editted when we change armor images and be corrected for any links to old armor pages. Do they serve a purpose or are they remnants from some forgotten gallery project? Can they be deleted? &mdash; <font color=#0776CA>Rogue  00:08, 9 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If they aren't used in the profession indexes they are probably left over from the very old function articles. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 02:27, 9 June 2007 (CDT)
 * i've been substing them out where i can, and flagging them as delete when i see them --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 17:58, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

monk elite saintly
Although technically complete, the female gallery was taken without antialiasing and the quality looks terrible. =/ &mdash; <font color=#0776CA>Rogue  13:59, 10 June 2007 (CDT)
 * exact same thing on female elite judge. &mdash; [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]]<font color=#0776CA>Rogue  14:05, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Warrior Wyvern armor/Male
Hi,<BR> I've added 16 images to this page.<BR> Can someone tell me if these images are good enough? And if so, change the to a ? <BR>PuL 04:05, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Images are not the same size and/or same aspect ratio. Image size may differ, depending on the character height, but it should look like this. Try to match the image size of your images to the size in that gallery. You'll need of course the original shots. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 04:37, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * hmm... i've updated new images for the dyed helment (with the same height), but on the webpage they aren't the same height... can enyone tell me why? PuL 05:49, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What software are you using because they are not the same size at all. With photoshop you can choose the size when making new picture that help a lot.  Also you signature goes against GW:SIGN please don't use Sub or sup it breaks the lignes.  Ty&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  07:00, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Necromancer Elite Cabal/Female
I uploaded some new images a while back that are same size and gray dyed, can it's status be upgraded? --Gimmethegepgun 14:56, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No sorry, you have post processing on, it makes the image really blurry. Also try to zoom in more but thank you for the help.  If you have anymore question please post it here.&mdash; ├ A ratak ┤  21:17, 18 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I always wondered why my images came out crappy :/ Anyway, that was zoomed in as far as I could go without having the feet clipped off by the skillbar. Actually, now that I think of it, to avoid that I could move the thing... Too bad I already dyed it --Gimmethegepgun 22:30, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Paragon Primeval male
I have replaced the pictures and changed the gallery to the armor art template. I think it fits now the requirements. Balwin 14:29, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Necromancer Elite Female armors
I've updated many of the Necro Elite Female sets, including Obsidian, but they haven't been checkmarked as "Good." Is that an oversight, or was there a reason? Am I doing something wrong? I edited the checkmarks myself, let me know if I need to change something. RoseOfKali 01:34, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I am also planning to get all the remaining Elite female necro sets. May take a while since I'm broke every time I buy one, but I'm on it.  Working on Prophecies first, then Nightfall, then EOTN. Factions I consider done.  The only problem with nightfall is that my character is light skinned, which conflicts with their "white" headgear style.  I will dye them all green, which shows up best, after black, and post a black preview in the sections, like in Necromancer Ancient armor/Female. But that's all in the future, I still have 3 Prophecies sets to go. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 01:34, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm open to suggestions and donations. :) What do you need to do to get on the list of project contributors? :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 01:34, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Nothing, that is from Tanarik. I don't see any need for a list really.  It's exclude people and make new editors think that the people on the list have more right then others.  Well maybe to keep track from who new users can get help on making galleries.  Aratak not sign in to protest against anyone making a profit from selling this wiki.

Height vs. Width
Is there a way to make all images uniform height instead of width? the "|128px" modifies width, is there one for height? I think the profession armor galleries would look much better with uniform height, since many images are still not a 1:3 ratio, and there are like on the order of 100 images on the core professions' pages. The contrast is especially noticeable in male vs. female images placed next to each other. RoseOfKali 01:53, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You can't set height alone. You can use ***x***px where the stars are your size. Aratak, not sign to protest againt anyone making a profit from selling this wiki.