Talk:Duncan the Black

If no one has ever seen him activating the monster skill...did we discover the skill through SoC then?--Thor79••Talk 18:42, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Upon dealing damage to Duncan, the monster skill icon pops up on your display. There you can read the skill description.  It appears to an inherent buff as he never needs to pause to recast the skill.
 * Yeah I noticed it when I fought him tonight...and through about 30 minutes of fighting him it never popped up so yeah...it's inherent.--Thor79•[[Image:User-thor79.png]]•Talk 02:49, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

This is what I wrote on GWO for the readers, maybe someone can use it here as well:

Duncan the Black with heroes and henchman. http://www.mypicshare.com/u1k6xj9rpic.html

Teambuild: Healer Zophar (Smite Monk) - Signet of Judgement Acolyte Sous (Fire ele) - Elemental Attunement Zhed Shadow (Fire ele) - Mindblast Olias (curses necro) - Spitefull Spirit Ate of D K (degen ranger) - Burning arrow Thalkora (heal monk) - LoD Dunkuro (heal monk) - LoD Herta (Earth ele) - No idea, she was just there to fill the team.

Strategy: Zophar (my brother) used his smiting skills on Duncan while taking the most damage. Ate of D K (me) stood there with a longbow giving Duncan poison and burning for constant degen/damage. The elementalist never attacked Duncan since we set them so they kill all the spirits on our side and Zophar and me could attack without taking to much damage. As you can see, we didn't have a prot monk with us, only two Light of Deliverance monks which was enough. Herta had no job, I could have taken my Broad Head Arrow (Acolyte Jin) with us, because that would be our normal build which did everything else. But Zophar was quick wich leaving and so we had Herta.

How long did it take? In the screenshot you can see that it was a total of 41min for the whole area, 10min on Duncan I think (Based on the bars of the consumables which last 30min)

What did we get? The chest contains 2 drops + a green armor part for heroes. We both had an Onyx Gemstone. Zophar got an additional golden item and I got a Diamond as second drop.

Completing the quest gave us - 5000 Norn points, - 10 Master of the North points, - 15.000xp and - 2,750.

Any tips? yes, don't do this with real people. Just Heroes and Henchman will be the quickest ;)

We used some consumables that we found during questing for some boosts. We didn't need them in the end I think, but the attack speed buff was cool for my ranger.

Greetings, Ate and Zophar(86.82.36.54 11:21, 5 September 2007 (CDT)).


 * I concur, smiting skills + degeneration appears to be highly effective in damaging Duncan.

Hmm... would Duncan be named actual the real-life Duncan Black aka Atrios? I've never read his blogs before though. --Xiu Kuro 21:42, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

HP
How much HP does this guy has, I was henching him a couple hours ago and used SV necro hero, it took more that 70 attacks/spells for him to fall, now as blood magic on my hero was 15, he lost 100 hp with each attack/spell he made making his total hp over 70,000, so I wonder is that even possible? The only creature I ever met with this amount of health was Rotscale in HM.--Glass 21:20, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

70 * 100 = 7,000...not 70,000

Best guess is around 24,000. He can take an absolute beating from spec'ed 18 blood SV @ 115 per hit.

Depending on the aftercast delay on Signet of Sorrow, I figure he has roughly 40,000 HP. Is there even an aftercast? If not, it's probably more like 55,000 HP. We removed the recuperations.

I think that his name is racist.
It could'nt have been, Duncan The Guy At The End Of The Dungeon, no, it HAD to be Duncan The BLACK.
 * Explain how the name Suffix "The black" is Racist? --Alari 17:14, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
 * i'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic but it could be taken the wrong way
 * I know its totaly unfair against all the other coloured people. I mean Duncan kicks *ss, meh they shoul have called him Duncan the White--[[Image:vik.PNG]] ( √ iktor ) 03:21, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

Considering both the name "Duncan" and the surname "Black" are Scottish in origin there is nothing even remotely racist towards blacks about this. The offbase QQing about racism is getting old quick.
 * You guys lack of sarcasm detection sucks. The White Mantle are racist as well. --Blue.rellik 22:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree that he is racist. &mdash;The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090 (contribs). 22:57, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * It should be 'Duncan the Rainbow' --Blue.rellik 22:59, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * He's a slave driver, not a hippie.--Alari 23:07, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
 * He's a racist slave driver --Blue.rellik 23:19, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

Black(jeffries is a black SOB) is the shade of objects that do not reflect light in any part of the visible spectrum. From wikipedia: Scientifically, black is not a hue (color); a black object absorbs all the colors of the visible spectrum and reflects none of them. This is sometimes confused with black being called 'a mixture of all colors', but that is not the case. In fact, an object emitting or reflecting all colors is perceived as white. Sometimes black is described as an "achromatic color"; in practice, black can be considered a color, e.g., the black cat or black paint. Black magic is an evil form of magic, often connected with death.
 * Duncan: Tallest of the Midgets.
 * Wahahahaha! what ignorant people around here!! Black means Dark, the dark side, a Bad guy!-- NeHoMaR [[Image:User_NeHoMaR_sig.jpg]] 17:47, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Was anyone ever complaining about how Sirius in HP has the last name Black? NO. QQ somewhere else --Gimmethegepgun 17:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL. rellik wins with the white mantle comment

Spirits?
The notes mention using Swap to move his spirits, but there are no spirits listed in his skill set. Are they actual Binding Rituals, or are they "special" spirits, like the ones in Sunjiang District? Either way, what are they? 141.233.30.23 18:54, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


 * "In the dungeon levels linked to Justiciar Thommis, Rand Stormweaver, Selvetarm, and Forgewight random ritualist spirits will spawn as you progress throughout the dungeon. These spirits include Disenchantment, Pain, Recuperation, and Shadowsong. Even if they are killed, these spirits will respawn after a set period of time." Note on slavers exile page.24.47.18.113 23:51, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


 * If I move his spirits and then kill them, will they respawn on their last position or their original one? Organism X 15:49, 14 September 2007 (CDT)


 * They respawn on their last position, but you don't need to kill them if they are far away from your position.--Rubina 21:26, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

Axe
I was under the impression that the axe was dropped from the chest. Does it drop from both?--4.243.43.132 01:55, 17 September 2007 (CDT)

Mesmer Build
I tried the mesmer build or suggested skills this evening with a group. It was a painfully slow process. (We didn't have any necros.) There have to be other, faster ways of killing Duncan using a mesmer. Anyone have any build thoughts? I'm working on something and I'll post about it once I'm done. Butterflybangs 04:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you considered Wastrel's Worry? This along with Power Spike, Overload and some e-management would probably work.  Illusionary Weaponry might also be worth a look theres a chance it might not trigger Duncan's Defense.  If those don't work you could try the old DoA Mesmer Echo chain Cry of Pain...Fc(8)/Insp(9)/Ill(12), Conjure Phantasm/ Arcane Conundrum/ Cry of Pain/ Arcane Echo/ Echo/ Ether Feast/ Ether Signet/ Resurrection Chant.  You probably won't have a BiP to fuel the crazy energy demands of this build so dropping the self heal and probably conundrum in favor of more inspiration line e-management is a good idea.  Also this requires a suitably high Sunspear Rank to really be effective like r7 minimum.  Necromancers really are the fastest way to kill Duncan in the current setup but this build with a lot of e-management would do ok.
 * There is no fast way to kill this guy, he has an insane amount of HP. But with a little of patience two monks keeping up two necros using SV and SS and spamming sig of sorrows kills him just fine.  Instead of bringing those skills you might want to go Illusion and stack 10 degen on him and use Clumsiness and Ineptitude since they work on wand attacks also.  Also using Thievery so he doesn't use any skills so the monks don't have to heal as much. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png|Chuiu]] 04:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Duncan has a little thing called natural resistance that turns most hexes and conditions into a waste of energy. While he may be vulnerable to degeneration the energy can be much better spent on direct damage.  Wastrel's Worry takes advantage of his half duration ending in 1.5 seconds for the spells full effect.  Its cheap spammable direct damage roughly equivalent to SoS.  The 10 pips of degeneration = 20 health per second lasting @ 10 Illusion for a maximum of 8 seconds (half duration) of the longest lasting illusion degen hex Crippling Anguish. This would only be 160 health due to degeneration costing you at least 25 energy to maintain (Crippling Anguish+Conjure Phantasm).  In that same time span (8 seconds) for the same amount of energy (25) with Domination @ 10 you could produce 225dmg from Wastrel's, @ 16 Domination 340dmg.  It should be very easy to sneak Wastrel's in between his castings especially if you use a cheap casting time increase to cover like Stolen Speed. If its a speed kill you want, degeneration, unless its lifesteal like Life Siphon to help the healer monk, is a waste of energy vs. Duncan.
 * I just killed Duncan less than 15 minutes ago. Although we didn't initially plan to do it the Signet of Sorrows way, we did resort to it. I was running this:


 * What we did was let Necro take aggro, monks using PS on him, then attack Duncan from the right side of the stairs. Heroes were smiter+SF ele (were flagged to focus on spirits) while our mindblast ele was sacrificed for Signet of Sorrows. We had a BA ranger too. Now, what I did was use MoR and cast Backfire, Pain Inverter, & Cry of pain. While they recharged, I used Mistrust & Guilt to randomly interrupt. Don't just stand there casting though, cast one spell, move back and then cast another spell and run back etc..We did need an Armor of Salvation & Powerstone to get it right at first. Finished the whole thing in 1 hour & 29 mins :D. Our team build was inspired by Zophar & Ate from the above post Gabe 19:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Duncan's Defense
When it turns the damage back on you, what type of damage is it? Does it mirror the type of damage you're doing -- IE IE Searing Flames comes back to you as fire damage, Hundred Blades comes back as slashing, etc -- or do you just get health deducted?

Also, do you take damage multiple times for Damage Over Time spells, like Meteor Shower?--Ruse 01:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. Chu [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png|Chuiu]] 01:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

The damage is just sheer damage (not any type or lifesteal) and equivalent to what you do to him unless a reduction skill like Protective Spirit is in place. It will always show up as "Duncan's Defense x(however many hits)". His skill will trigger off nearly every single damage source in the game and for every single hit. The only exceptions are non player based damage sources like Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor both of which have been in use down there forever. Signet of Sorrow will also trigger his defense and while it makes for a faster kill requires a constant attention to healing.

As a side note, his skill can work against him; I completed the dungeon with heroes and henchmen. The heroes were Gwen (interrupts and spirit management), Livia (MM, resurrection), and Xandra (spirit spammer), and I used Mhenlo, Lina, Talon and Devona for the hench. I played an SS Necro/A (assassin so I could use Swap on his spirits) using Spiteful Spirit, Pain Inverter, and Insidious Parasite. Gwen, Xandra and I were within his agro range, with me nearest the stairs; Livia & the henchmen were flagged slightly behind us and raised people as necessary. Those in agro range were spaced such that no more than one peson could be struck by his attacks at any given time. Livia in addition to rezing with Rebirth, made jagged horrors out of any that fell using Jagged Bones. These horrors not only caused bleeding, but, more importantly, when Duncan is pain inverted while casting Spirit Rift, takes 80 damage for each creature struck which in this case worked out to around 680 damage for him for each batch of minions. The same for Xandra and her spirits, although she was less effective. SV would have been faster than SS against him, for sure, but I found the dungeon itself was easier to navigate with SS. Anyway, this build certainly isn't optimized or the best but it does lead to interesting possible strategies to use his own abilities against him.

I'd be interested in seeing more combinations used to make both getting to Duncan and killing him more efficent.

Dr Needles 07:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Does Trap damage get reversed back to the trapper against Duncan? Granamyr 01:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The first Ritualist dwarf
Man it's about dam time that ANet finally made a dwarf that is a ritualist. to bad it's not a boss (from what i know of) because i'd be doin Duncan the Black (dungeon) just for capturing his elite skill, if he had one.

Bug Note
I don't think Duncan's skill is bugged. He's got armor, right? And it's probably not exactly 60. So I was thinking perhaps in reality, Duncan's skill does the Base damage back to you, as oppose to the actual damage done to him. Mesodreth Blackwing 21:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "it has actually been observed to redirect 75% to 200% of the damage dealt to him". Well, that corresponds to something like a jump of at least 50 armor rating, maybe closer to 60. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 22:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Is the 75-200% refering to the same spell/dmg source? Maybe he has, for example, +armor against fire dmg and -armor against slashing dmg and the dmg dealt back is, like Mesodreth Blackwing suggests, the base dmg, ie not reduced by armor? I have never fought him, so I am just speculating. 78.156.203.143 16:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Theoretically possible, but I find it not very likely. Inherent buffs/debuffs don't typically vary to the point of have a difference greater than 40 (whereas we are looking at something close to 60), not to mention there seems no reason to expect him to have particular weaknesses against any damage type, so that would be quite random. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 21:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can confirm the 200%. I took Cry of Pain, and every single time I got hit with 200 damage (I have maxed my Spearmarshal). GW-Susan 01:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup
This page needs a cleanup, BAD! -- -- (s)talkpage 21:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Spiritual Pain?
Im curious if he is in fact close enough to spirits to trigger the insta recharge? If so it would be like a SoS on him however the energy might be a bit tough. One think I do is take Mantra of Lightning instead of elite stance and take HeV as this provides massive AoE damage while leading to duncan. (71.82.137.61 07:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC))

Sweet spot at the bottom of the stairs?

 * 1) The safest way to defeat Duncan is to let a Spoil Victor Necromancer or Mesmer with Backfire, Mistrust, Guilt, and Empathy under Mantra of Recovery stand on the lower floor besides the stairs, in the corner formed by the upper floor. Neither Duncan nor the spirits he summons will hit that player there

Is this still true or what? Every time I try to find this spot I'm mobbed by a group of spirits at the bottom of the stairs, so I'm hardly out of their range.

I also found that out today. I think the note should be removed. King Neoterikos 08:40, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

LB Skills?
"While Lightbringer rank and skills work on the Stone Summit dwarves in this dungeon, they do not work on Duncan himself."

I was with a group last night, and found that the Lightbringer Gaze worked on neither the stone summit dwarves nor Duncan. Perhaps this was a bug that has since been fixd. (Countess Corpula - Feb 19th, 2008)


 * Oh, that's an Ancient note that had to be removed months ago. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, Lightbringer skills do NOT work on stone summit dwarves nor Duncan.

QUESTION
is there a page on guild wiki or offical wiki that shows a guide of killing ducn?


 * Duncan is easy, though a bit tedious. I just did it in HM with my ranger ursan, my guildmate with a ranger ursan and the rest heroes: Livia with only SV and Signet of Sorrow, 2 LOD healers, 1Protector and 2 Savannah Heat ele's. We used in our build: Ursan, rez sig, shadow of haste, dark escape, swap, pain inverter. First clear the entire room of those popups. When done, start from where you enter the room: cast shadow of haste, run to the spirit you want to move away, when in casting range cast Swap. When in trouble, use dark escape to end Shadow of haste and teleport back to safety. This way you can relocate all spirits without killing a single one. Then position the monks near the bottom of the stairs, the casters in the corner, lock duncan to Livia, run to duncan, die there so Livia can do her thing. Easy as pie! Nailstabber 21:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Nailstabber for the good advice regarding the use of the assassin skills. Went in alone with my ranger ursan in NM, took along a HB hero monk, a SABway MM necro hero and a SV-SOS hero with wells, along with the 2 monk henchies, Cynn and Hertha. The other reason I brought along the 2 necros was for corpse control. The wells were pretty good, and the MM's were good meat shields. Clearing pop-up's was certainly key. Swapping all the spirits to the top left part of the map at Duncan's hideout was easy enough with shadow of haste. After positioning the 3 heroes on the ledge at the top of the stairs, I placed the rest of the party on the area just below the ledge. The 2 ele henchies are a little dumb and if in range will try to nuke Duncan. A Definite no-no. When I actually charged in to die, I tried to take some points off of Duncan with my Ursan. i must say, the monks did a decent job of healing me while I bear-hugged Duncan at least 1/4 of his health. I believe my necro's SV was also kicking in. When I finally died, the SV-SOS hero went into full swing. The monks were looking after her real well with Protective Spirit. The whole exercise went into auto mode, and he was down in 5 mins. Thanks again for the good tips Nailstabber. My point is that in NM it is solo-able with H/H and the right builds. Will try this next in HM. I prefer to solo things even if it takes a while longer. I had so much trouble getting a PUG group at umbral. People are so rigid about team builds, sometimes they don't use their heads to think out of the box. Just my 2 cents. Angel138 01:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Another thing to note... 'cuz this worked wonderfully for me is MAKE SURE PS IS UP AT ALL TIMES.. I kinda had a blonde moment and couldnt figure out why Livia kept dying... Smoochie Kinz 12:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

They are picky about builds because as a ranger you are supposed to be running rez control via FS...you know a real skillbar. You bought the game so run Ursan if you like, but don't criticize others for wanting to run legit bars that work. I promise you less effort goes into getting an R/Rt set up properly to do this than maxing out Norn for the precious bearforce one. 98.219.48.111 20:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Dear Mr 98.219.48.111, I am merely stating a point about the difficulty in getting a group to do Duncan at Umbral. Running bear was my choice because I went alone with H/H. I have played the game long enough to know the intricacies of planning builds for your heroes in difficult areas like this. I believe that in itself will requires careful planning and know-how, not withstanding my chracter running Bear. While I won't tell you how to play the game, please don't tell me how to play mine. There are many nice PVXbuilds out there for R/Rt's, and I know they are free for everyone to use. Peace. Angel138 10:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ursan is not "using your head to think outside the box". It's the fallback strategy when nothing else works. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Again, Mr Entropy, that is matter of opinion. Some like Ursan, others don't. To you Ursan may be a fallback strategy, but to me, maybe it's not. We are all entitled to our views. One man's meat is another's poison.Angel138 08:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Miss. And I am surprised that you would admit such a weakness. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hooray! Nerf = Antidote! In real news, the number of spirits this guy "summons" in insane! And he doesn't pull too well, either. King Neoterikos 08:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)