User talk:Rainith/Archive4

Unique items
Any change requests for the Unique items list page go here.

We have to add Kepkhet's Refuge, added with the March 2, 2006 update. -- 18:18, 3 March 2006 (CST) Done.

Minor thing: In the greens section, it seemed a common arrangement for spellcaster greens to go "wand, focus, staff", but Bortak's section doesn't follow that convention like everything else in there currently. Done (Thanks Karlos).

Just a minor question: why are the professions not sorted in alphabetical order?
 * The wiki standard is to follow the order that the professions are listed in the game's manual (or the character creation screen, I can't recall which it is). See Style and formatting.  --Rainith 03:47, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Policy for capitalisation
I see you deleted the page "Galen trask". Is there some official policy on capitalisation? I always think that it is a good idea to have such redirects, because if you just type "galen trask" into the search box and hit enter, MediaWiki will ask you if you want to create an article called "Galen trask", rather than taking you to the correct article.

It does really annoy me sometimes, maybe just because I am lazy. But I would never actually link to an article such as Galen Trask without the proper capitalisation.

Just wondered if there was some official policy page on this, since my queries about policies tend to go unanswered (see e.g. Template_talk:Item begin. Kidburla 06:47, 17 February 2006 (CST)
 * I couldn't give you the page (I'd try the Style and formatting pages, it might be there), but in general the decision was made to not bother with redirects for all the different ways things can be CaPiTiLiZeD. On a personal note (and this may sound harsher than I intend it to, so as a disclaimer, no offense is meant to anyone), if you can't bother to capitalize correctly when you're punching the keys for a search, we shouldn't make life any easier for you, because you've had it way too easy already.  (Again, not directed at you or anyone else in particular, just people in general).  --Rainith 10:42, 17 February 2006 (CST)
 * It's just quicker to type in lower case, that's all. Wikipedia tends to make redirects for people who type in lower case (e.g. "Guild wars -> Guild Wars"). It really doesn't take up much space on the server (less than a KB per entry, I would think), and it just makes things easier for everyone. And it's not every single CapItIliZATion, it's just literally a completely lower case article to redirect to the correct place (apart of course from the initial upper case character which is mandatory and case-insensitive anyway). Kidburla 07:15, 22 February 2006 (CST)


 * Here is the issue you would run into, from the Main Page: We are currently maintaining 4,475 articles...  Creating 4500 redirects is not a viable solution.  Yes, I know not all the articles have multiple words in their titles.  So, say cut the number in half, 2200 redirects doesn't look that good either.  --Rainith 07:25, 22 February 2006 (CST)


 * Isn't it possible, though, to simply disable the destinction between caps in article names in Mediawiki? I believe so. In my opinion, articles should of course be created with correct capitalization, but it should not be required for a simple search. Remember, not all users are native english speakers and may not know how to correctly capitalize titles. --Bishop 09:13, 28 February 2006 (CST)


 * There may be a way to set that in MediaWiki, if so I don't know how and probably don't have access to it. That would be something to take up with Gravewit or Nunix.  As for people who are non-native english speakers, we have lots of them on the wiki, many of them long time members, they don't seem to have a problem with it.  And in what language are proper names not capitalized (with the exception of Asian languages that use a characters for words as opposed to letters)?
 * If anyone feels that the current way the wiki handles the capitalization of articles and the use of redirects, they should post somewhere that many people are likely to see it and comment, like Talk:Main Page. I'm not making the law, just trying to uphold it.  --Rainith 09:45, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Question about blocked...
(edit: block in question... I guess it expires in 3 hours anyway)
 * 19:09, 28 January 2006, Rainith blocked 68.229.231.220 (expires 19:09, 28 February 2006) (contribs) (Vandalism)

On Jan. 28th, my IP (then, and until 5min ago 68.229.231.220) was blocked for a period of 1 month (and since I'm on cable modem, it stays the same) however mysteriously today, while playing GuildWars it lost connection and then reconnected with a different IP. The reasoning behind this was Vandalism, for creating a page(NOT editing an existing one) with a 'random mishmatch of skill descriptions' based on easily placing the signets on one page (see Glyphs) However, this was not my intention and I've been unable to get ahold of anyone here via email (the one I found, at least, has not responded).

Here's the thing: I hit Save Page instead of Show Preview, and while working to correct the errors, my IP was blocked. Further still, the reason for the errors was a either a mistake in spelling (Signet of Judgement rather than Signet of Judgment) or an error in Wiki's formatting engine (copied from Glyphs, thusly like, I formatted the signets likewise:  as that is what I used as a template). This produced rather unexpected results... instead of a nice small table listing a short description of the skills, it copied the entire article from each skill (I'd listed every Signet skill) onto the same page. Although, now that I think about it I might have forgotten to include the table tags.

Before I made any changes, however, I'd like clear things up before doing *anything* as technically I'm supposed to still be blocked.


 * I vaguely remember this... Ok, went back and looked at it. You have my apologies as it sounds like you were actually trying to do something and not just screwing around, but when I saw the page you created, I'm not sure what I was supposed to think.  Here is just what the Table of contents looked like:

* 1 Description * 2 Acquisition * 3 Description * 4 Progression * 5 Acquisition * 6 Notes * 7 Usage Notes * 8 Usage Notes * 9 Acquisition * 10 Related Skills * 11 Description * 12 Progression * 13 Acquisition * 14 Notes * 15 General Description * 16 Usage * 17 Acquisition * 18 Capturing Elite Skills * 19 Capturing Non-Elite Skills o 19.1 Capturing Quest-Reward-Skills o 19.2 Capturing Skill-Trainer-Skills * 20 Description * 21 Progression * 22 Acquisition * 23 Usage Notes * 24 Description * 25 Acquisition * 26 Usage Notes * 27 Description * 28 Acquisition * 29 Usage * 30 Description * 31 Progression * 32 Acquisition * 33 Usage Notes
 * In the future, if something like hitting Save page instead of Show preview happens, make another small edit (delete/add a word) and put in the summary that you are working on the article. As for how to get yourself unblocked, check most of the admin's user pages, like mine and you will see the characters that admin plays.  You would not be the first person to contact me in-game from the wiki (you wouldn't even be the first person I had banned to do so).  --Rainith 10:02, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Aeroele
Thanks, that guy was really offensive. What a jerk. Shandy 21:33, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * NP, that's what I'm here for. :)  --Rainith 21:33, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * That was quick work Shandy. You beat me to the chase at every turn. :P I guess this happens a lot. --Gares Redstorm 21:39, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * You can't read? More likely the original person can't spell.  Not that I'm one to talk....  --Rainith 21:41, 28 February 2006 (CST)
 * Hmm... a thought: it seems like almost every vandalism happens when someone edits a section by pressing the edit box over that section, rather than modifying the whole article by hitting the edit tab. Seeing someone edit multiple sections of the same article in order especially. Not sure if anyone's commented on this being a pattern before, but I just finally noticed it after several months of being on the wiki--130.58 21:44, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Not the *first* mistake I made today...
Just the worst (appologies for the (level 11) thing.. I put that as a side note and neglected to remove it.. then I went and copied the bloody layout). The Rhitt Windmelt article I posted earlier is minsnamed and a dupilicate and needs to be deleted, as I somehow overlooked Ritt Windmelt (thanks PanSola). The image, Image:Rhitt Windmelt.jpg is likewise misnamed, but the Ritt Windmelt article does not have an image, and I don't know how to go about fixing that at all. - Evil_Greven 15:17, 1 March 2006 (CST)
 * No worries and no need to apologise for an honest mistake. :)  If something needs to be deleted put the following at the beginning of the article  and I (or one of the other admins) will delete it.  As for the misnamed picture, you can either re-upload it with the correct name (and mark the old picture for deletion), or change the article to look for the misnamed picture, your choice.  Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with, but I probably won't be on much longer tonight.  --Rainith 15:24, 1 March 2006 (CST)

Item Value Entries
Need some help? Its for weapons, salvage items, and?

Are you going to remove static collector drop item values too? --Gares Redstorm 01:49, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * It is only for articles with the template.  This is mostly because most any weapon has a value that varies (wildly in some cases) and there is no real benefit to having it there.  Skuld made a change to the template to take out the info, so there is no rush to get it out (the info that was there is gone already), just more of a housekeeping thing.  You can see the 3 templates that I took out of Eerie Staff, those are the 3 to go.  --Rainith 02:28, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * Here is a link to the pages that this needs to be removed from. :(  --Rainith 02:33, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * I went through all the weapons, didn't find any item values, but I did find other goodies to work on :D --Gares Redstorm 03:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * You won't see them on the page, you have to look on the edit screen. I just took one out of Bone Staff.  Pretty much any one that has Item Details a small blank line and then Weapon Details will have it.  --Rainith 03:24, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * Arrgh!! Just kidding. Alright. I'll go back through 'em then. --Gares Redstorm 03:42, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * Should we make a list of what needs to be done and/or what has been done? I've gone through Hammers and Swords so far. At least that way no one wastes time going back over someone else. I know you, Skuld, and me have done some. --Gares Redstorm 05:28, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Here is what needs to be done. That is everything that links to the template. --Rainith 05:58, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Skill Article formatting
Do you know if a standardized skill article format been decided on? I assumed GuildWiki talk:Style & Formatting/Skills/Everything Example was the correct way, but the discussion page on it leaves it kind of open. I'd like to modify the skill articles in a more standard order, but I need to know that order if there is one - Evil_Greven 06:22, 2 March 2006
 * Honestly, since I've started here, the skill articles have been a bit of a mish-mash. For the most part I've tried to stay away from them.  The most current conversations are here: GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills, and the current standard should be here: Style and formatting/Skills, but I haven't looked to see if that is up to date or not.  (One of my future projects is to update/create the style and formatting pages.)  Current conversations seem to center on the skill box, and which icons to use.  That's about all the help I can give to you at the moment.  I'll try to look into the S&F page for skills more when I get home.  --Rainith 06:37, 2 March 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks for the info! Slightly on a tangent here, but do you know if the template that works for  and   can be applied elsewhere?  I worked a bit this afternoon on a test format that works on both Skill Boxes and Skill Lists (see User:Evil_Greven/Skill Box), and if it's possible, it'd work well for that. - Evil_Greven 12:43, 3 March 2006
 * Really haven't played with the "includes" much, so I can't help you with that. Most any of the other 'normal' contributers could probably tell you more about them than I could.  Sorry.  :(  --Rainith 12:49, 3 March 2006 (CST)
 * Hmm... question about the Progression tables... Do you think instead of the long and drawn out "Health Degeneration" that is typically used, woud "< Health" convey same meaning, as it uses the ingame display of it (via the arrow). Likewise, "Health >" for "Health Regeneration", "< Energy" for "Energy Degeneration" and "Energy > " for "Energy Regeneration" could be used if it is deemed acceptable. -- Evil_Greven 14:49, 6 March 2006
 * I think "Health Degen" and "Health Regen" would be better for most users than using . --Rainith 14:55, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Image Woes
I updated the Image:Sever_Artery.png image after testing it locally (on 64x64 format) on a page, but it doesn't seem to care that I did and remains flawed in 64x64. I noticed however that the linking to the 64x64 seems to be different. Is this a type of cache the server maintains, and if so, how does it get reset? - Evil_Greven 06:12, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * Sorry if I'm a bit slow (getting over a cold, again, this winter has sucked), but huh? I know if you upload an image where one already exists you may need to refresh your browsers cache by holding shift and clicking the refresh button (works on IE and Firefox, not sure on other browsers).  But if that isn't what you're talking about, you'll have to try to explain it to me again (maybe using smaller words this time).  --Rainith 06:51, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * I created a test.html file, with the same html code that GuildWiki uses to display a reduced-size image (64 pixels x 64 pixels), and the image I uploaded looked perfect there. However, when I uploaded it, there is no change.  I've reloaded the cache & even deleted it, but to no avail.  Is it still bad gradiants for anyone else? - Evil_Greven 08:56, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * Ok, then I don't know. The image looks fine to me when it is not scaled, but if I check out the image on one of the pages that uses it scaled to a smaller size (User:Neck/build template), the image looks like @$$ again.  This is a problem that we have had with png file scaling since day one (or at least as long as I've been here, I cannot claim to have been here since day 1).  This is one of the reasons that I am for tossing these png files and going with the jpg images from the fan site kits.  --Rainith 10:41, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah but that's what gets me... it looks fine scaled to the exact same scale on my test webpage, but not here, which doesn't make much sense in my opinion. Does the server use some form of caching for often-accessed images? :/ ( ex. /images/thumb/e/e1/Sever_Artery.png/64px-Sever_Artery.png also see User:Lunarbunny, image looks fine there)- Evil_Greven 12:23, 8 March 2006 (CST)
 * On Lunarbunny's page, the file is scaled to a different size, don't know if that might have something to do with it. As for the server caching images like that, I dunno.  I have admin level access, which means I can delete pages and ban people, but I don't really have access to the server.  That would be a question better asked of Gravewit or Nunix.  --Rainith 12:46, 8 March 2006 (CST)

Pre-Order box
You got the pre-order box already? I ordered it from Amazon and they say they will "ship" it May 2nd!! Where did you order it from? --Karlos 01:24, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * I went to Best Buy. They've been slowly appearing at stores since the weekend.  Specifically I picked it up at the BB in Lynnwood, but I'm guessing the one in Bellevue would have them too.  Strangely enough, they weren't in the "new software" area, but just in the "online game" area.  --Rainith 01:26, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Is that the BB near Alderwood mall? What price have they set on it? --161.88.255.140 01:28, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, $10. --Rainith 01:41, 9 March 2006 (CST)


 * Wow. You live nearby too! You are me! I knew it! Are you my conscience? :)
 * I am confused. The one I bought is $49, what exactly did you buy? --Karlos 02:44, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Karlos, on Amazon.com, did you buy "Guild Wars Factions" ($49), or "Guild Wars Factions Pre-sale Disk [Does not contain full game]" ($1), or the "Buy Both and save Best Value" ($49)? When Guildwars.com first linked to Amazon.com, Amazon still didn't have the pre-sale disk available.
 * Rainith, does the BB disk contain anything extra above and beyond what ArenaNet is saying is in the package? They seem to be charging quite a bit more than Amazon for the pre-buy disk. --161.88.255.140 02:50, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Same stuff, BB does this with all presells (or at least the ones I've seen there), they then sell you the game for $10 less, or $39 in this case. --Rainith 10:56, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Here is a link to a GWG forum post, you bring the receipt to BB with you $10 pre-sell on it and you get the $10 off the game. --Rainith 12:32, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * Hmmmm ... good information that may need to be incorporated into the pre-order article (if I have time tonight, I may work on that). On a side note: I find it somehow disturbing to learn how many from the wiki live this close to me (I'm within 5-10 min of the BB in Lynnwood). --Barek 13:55, 9 March 2006 (CST)
 * * Laugh* Yeah, there's a lot of us here.  Don't see Lunarbunny on much anymore, but IIRC he lives in the Northgate area.  Funny thing is, for all the people who live in this area, I at least, don't know any of them outside of the wiki.  Just goes to show you I guess that while it is something of a small world, it also isn't.  On a different side note, anyone else from the wiki get picked to go to the press event tomorrow?  (sorry had to brag again, but it would be cool if someone else from here went too)  --Rainith 14:01, 9 March 2006 (CST)

Vandal using multiple IPs in the 205.188.116.x range
I noticed that so far today you've banned User:205.188.116.196 and User:205.188.116.5 - now there are ban requests for 205.188.116.197 and 205.188.116.7 for more of the same. Is there any way to do a short term ban on all addresses in the 205.188.116.x range, for maybe a couple days to a week, and see if the vandal loses interest by that time? --161.88.255.140 04:10, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Note: Karlos just blocked the two newer ones. --161.88.255.140 04:17, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Nor sure what I can do. I tried x.x.x.* but the wiki didn't let me do that. If anyone has experience on how to block a range (or whether we even should), please advise. --Karlos 07:22, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * I don't know if we can block a range, I thought I saw something like that somewhere, but I can't find it now. I don't know that it is a good idea either, tempting though it might be at times like this.  --Rainith 07:39, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Wiki Message Notification
Hi, not sure if I should ask you this, but lately I've been getting a weird problem. When I edit my own talk page, and it's the top edit on my talk page, I for some reason still see that now-annoying "You have new messages." notification on the top of every page I view. Do you know why this is? Also, I don't know if this is related, but right next to my last edit on the history page, I see the text " ". What does that mean? And is there someone I could ask this about who is knowledgable about Wikimedia? Evan The Cursed (Talk) 09:48, 11 March 2006 (CST)
 * I have no idea. I believe Fyren had a similar issue with the new message notifications a while back, I think he left a question in User questions about it.  I've never had that happen, or the updatedmarker thing either.  Skuld seems to be pretty good with Mediawiki stuff so you might ask him.  --Rainith 06:33, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Vandal 66.90.118.79
Just in case he removes his ban tag again, this user has been causing quite a bit of trouble lately. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 09:47, 13 March 2006 (CST)
 * Banned. --Rainith 10:25, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Page for deletion
Here's the link that I used to reach that page I marked for deletion --Barek 10:56, 13 March 2006 (CST)
 * http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=I_don%5C%27t_give_a_fuck&rcid=98752
 * Thank you. --Rainith 10:57, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Image deletion request
Hi Rainith, can you delete all the old versions of Image:Skill Categorization Example.png? They're just needlessly eating up space, and this image isn't really all that important to the wiki. &mdash; Stabber 01:00, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * Done. --Rainith 01:08, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Trying to clear out Orphened Pages
Sorry for that, but it looked like the best place to link it. - Greven 07:28, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * Well aren't disambig pages supposed to have all links removed from them? Isn't that what the disambig template says?  If so that one is a success.  If I'm remembering it incorrectly, I blame it on society.  :)  --Rainith 07:35, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * You're right, of course. I don't think I've messed with disambiguation pages before, honestly. - Greven 07:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)
 * =) Not trying to be such a smartass, just the kinda mood I'm in at the moment, if I caused offense with my previous statement, I apologise, please don't take it personally. --Rainith 07:48, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Rimshot
''My new favorite Collectable Drop is dropped by Nagas in the newbie area, it is a Naga Hide. *rimshot*''

Err, wha? Evan The Cursed (Talk) 15:39, 17 March 2006 (CST)


 * Hmmm, I'm going to guess you were born sometime after 1985 or so, as naugahyde seems to me to be more of something from the late 70's early 80's. Here is a some info from naugahyde on wikipedia:
 * The most well-known brand name of pleather is Naugahyde, made in Naugatuck, Connecticut.


 * Early Naugahyde marketing included a fictional animal called the "Nauga" whose hides were supposedly the natural source of all the Naugahyde manufactured. According to the story, which has become something of folk-lore in parts of Connecticut, the Naugas are nocturnal, hairless, aquatic mammals of many colors that live in the Naugatuck River, and can be made to come to the surface at night by shining a flashlight into the water. The Naugas are then captured and sorted by color to be made into the various colors of Naugahyde. Allegedly, when rolled together on a mechanical press, the seams between the Naugas disappear, resulting in a seamless, leather-like product. A popular bumper sticker stated simply: "Save the Naugas!"


 * My personal reference to it is from the first Leisure Suit Larry game. --Rainith 00:45, 18 March 2006 (CST)


 * Actually I was born exactly that year. Anyways, that would explain a few other "naga hide" jokes I've seen(and oh what a world has opened to my once-blind eyes).  Guy up there too lazy to sign in 01:54, 21 March 2006 (CST)

icon vote option 4 won
color away! -SolaPan 20:10, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Looks like it's massively multiplayer online spambot season
You've got your work cut out for you. &mdash; Stabber 05:56, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * I've noticed, working on it as I can from work. --Rainith 06:08, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * Reverted spam and marked sites for deletion. Hope I helped a little :) 06:09, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * It is much appreciated. With the preview event our traffic got to a point that the spammers took notice maybe?  --Rainith 06:10, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * You might also want to ban the IPs behind this. Just check the contributors of the deleted pages :) 09:49, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * It looks like each IP is responsible for 1 edit. So I don't think banning them will help much.  If a week from now or so, each IP repeats the vandalism, then I'd say it would be a good idea.  --Rainith 10:06, 25 March 2006 (CST)

This gayhomes.net feller seems to be in control of a large number of spamming zombies. I wonder if MediaWiki allows filtering by URL. Will check when I reboot into Linux. &mdash; Stabber 10:56, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * As the spambots seem to create new user accounts we are getting lots of accounts with no real wiki user behind them. Can the admins (or Gravewit/Nunix) check users for their contributions and remove the user accounts which were used to spam? 03:01, 26 March 2006 (CST)

Chasing the spammer
Not sure blocking all those IPs was the right thing to do. The fact that the same bot used all those IPs in such a short span is telling you that he really doesn't have an IP. --Karlos 13:17, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * Well, at least one of the was used twice, so if nothing else they can be unblocked later. --Rainith 13:22, 25 March 2006 (CST)

special request
Can you delete the unused image Image:ElementalistAziure.jpg as soon as you get a chance? I am experimenting with something. Thanks. -SolaPan 17:50, 25 March 2006 (CST)
 * ROTFLMAO! I would delete it (even tho I took it and it is a damn good picture), but I can't:
 * Could not delete file "/home/guildwiki/public_html/images/0/0b/ElementalistAziure.jpg".
 * The upload bug also affects deleting things, and this is one of those images that I just cannot delete. --Rainith 04:31, 26 March 2006 (CST)
 * o_O""" I see.  Well, that ruins my experiment, but confirmed something else too. -SolaPan 08:54, 26 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Main Page
we all side with the idea that Talk:Main Page should be protected. Making it a redirect to editcopy's talk would only stop bots, whereas leaving links there would help users who otherwise wouldn't read instructions see the difference in functionality between GuildWiki Talk:Community Portal, User questions, and editcopy's talk page.

Do you have a specific reason why you prefer the redirect approach? -SolaPan 10:24, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * Because it would be almost transparent to users, it would be like clicking on Ring of Fire, you automatically go to Ring of Fire (Mission). The talk page would look the same, keeping the info that is at the top (the bit that says: This talk page should be used to discuss thing directly relevant to the Main Page or the edit copy. For discussions regarding GuildWiki in general, please use GuildWiki Talk:Community Portal. If you have any questions that aren't relevant to a specific talk page, head over to GuildWiki:User questions and add it.).  The only differences between what we have now and my suggestion would be the small bit of text at the top saying: (Redirected from Talk:Main Page), the actual title at the top of the page and hopefully less vandalization.  --Rainith 10:33, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * As it seems most people agree with your idea, set it up, make the changes and let me know when Talk:Main Page needs to be protected. --Rainith 10:41, 27 March 2006 (CST)
 * Done. You might want to edit it a little for formatting/wording though. -SolaPan 13:03, 27 March 2006 (CST)

Skill icon revamp
I've been uploading the new FSK images. If I have coded it correctly, the "delete" links from Sandbox User:Stabber/skill icons should just work. I'm not marking each image individually for deletion as the cfd category is getting huge. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 21:43, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, like I said I'm busy at work until the end of this month. I'll try to get the CFD category cleared out when I can (if noone else beats me to it).  As for the images, I think some folks wanted the PNGs to stay until all the JPGs were uploaded so that it wouldn't break the skillbar template, so those should wait to be deleted until then.  Thanks for the help with uploading the pics by the way, I don't know when I would have gotten around to doing the next batch, probably not until this weekend.  --Rainith 21:51, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Stabber told me to ask you how the skill icons with no borders should be fixed. I want to add the missing borders and I made a list of those images which need them, but I am unsure on how to make this. Do I just put the borders on top of the image, or do I first scale down the skill icon and then add the borders around it so that the original image isn't partially left under the borders? I hope I don't have to rescale the images. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 12:11, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think as long as they are not elite golden borders, we should just leave them alone... -PanSola 12:18, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * If we have most of the skills with black borders then why not all. Skill bars look ugly when some skills have the borders and some don't. Why shouldn't we do this if there is somone who volunteers to do it? --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 12:23, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * If you want to make the adjustments to the icons, be my guest. :)  What I did for the elites that were missing the black border (or had a 1 or 2 pixel border) was to just go over the outer edge of the icon (i.e. I didn't resize them).  You can check on an icon with a regular border, but IIRC the border is 5 pixels wide.  --Rainith 12:45, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I just checked Healing Signet, so generalizing from just one example, the border is 4 pixels wide. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 12:52, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I couldn't remember if they were 4 or 5 pixels, obviously I guessed wrong. :)  --Rainith 12:59, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

I planned on cleaning up the Raw Dump by posting SoC pics and Boss pics, if needed, and then deleting each one to make some room. So far I have been comparing my SoC pics and noticed quite a few errors on Wiki. In order to do all this, however, I will be creating boss talk pages and uploading quite a few pics for SoC confirmation. Then turning right around and placing a delete tag on them (the pics and the talk pages; the talk pages if the SoC is the only thing on them). Wanted to make an Admin aware, and since you are the Delete king, I'd figure you'd be the best to contact. --Gares Redstorm 12:05, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Do you really need to upload the images? Why not just correct the info and put a note of SoC confirmation on the talk page. Thats what ppl usually do. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 12:21, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually, I've often wondered if we shouldn't just link the SoC to the boss' page. If a vandal comes along, adds/removes skills, and claims to have done an SoC confirmation, the only way we currently have to verify is to go into the game and do our own capture.  If the SoC were attached, we could confirm immediately. --161.88.255.140 12:25, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree with 161.88. More immediately verifiable documentation would be a great boon for the wiki. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 12:27, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * This would mean a LOT of images in the wiki. I disagree on putting them all here, it all puts a strain on the servers, which even now have enough problems. (and Factions coming soon...) If the edits are made by well known users, there is no problem with believing them and no images are needed. A casual commiter doesn't even know that we need to put SoC confirmation and probably would not put anything on the talk page or upload an image. For the ones who know about this rule there is no problem with trust. I strongly disagree with uploading the images. (Did I say that allready?) --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 12:32, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Actually this was already discussed in one of PanSola's talk pages. It was decided that regular contributers (people who have contributed, created a username, in general people who have built up a bit of a history) would confirm the skills as they are able and post the confirmations in the talk pages.  The decision was not to upload SoC images for each boss.  --Rainith 12:37, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * The strain is mostly in the form of storage space these images take up, which I doubt is the bottleneck. If the location of the images is properly obfuscated (eg. Vatlaaw Doomtooth/SoC) instead of placing it in the talk page, I think they will rarely be downloaded, so there isn't much bandwidth cost either. Image data doesn't go through the database &mdash; the weakest link in MediaWiki &mdash; in any case. Also, I seriously doubt that talk pages of bosses get even a tiny fraction of the total hits. It's all lost in the long tail. If the images are there, they should be part of the community record methinks (let's reopen that debate) &mdash; Stabber (talk) 12:40, 18 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, since my idea seems to be in the middle of "Not uploading SoC pics" and "Permanently uploading SoC pics", I won't say much. I will say that out of the screens I have compared with Wiki's pages, around 20-25% of Wiki's boss skill's lists are wrong (either a missed skill, or too many skills). --Gares Redstorm 12:56, 18 April 2006 (CDT)