GuildWiki talk:Armor galleries project/Archive3

revive this project (again)
Seems like nothing is happening anymore, and the problem is, NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS PROJECT... and those who did seems like stopped caring, for the most part, or ran out of things they are able contribute. There are galleries in here that are marked as bacause they are so severely incomplete that it's not even funny (Monk Primeval armor/Female is a shining example...). I've done all I could up to this point, but I'm just not buying armor anymore (yeah, I'm saving money for minis...). One of the bigger problems right now is the Dwarven armor, which is pathetically "borked" for just about everyone. I fixed the Necro one, except for the 6 full set Male images, which I cannot do, because I have the Female Dwarven set. I also fixed up the Elementalist one, and the female gallery is nicely done there, but male still needs ALL the images (current ones are just... bad, and incomplete). As far as the other professions, it's just scary to look at them. I offer my help with gallery formatting if anyone wants to provide the screenshots of the armor. Use Necromancer Dwarven armor/Female as an example of a complete gallery how it should really be done (30 screens total for a 4-piece set, or 24 for a 3-piece). Elementalist Dwarven armor/Female has one instead of 3 colorable screen shots for each piece, but that's the minimum of what's needed and will suffice if you don't want to do more. Please make sure to look at the page for each piece, not just the main gallery. I am constantly watching this project, so just let me know if you would like to help with Dwarven or any other armor set that is incomplete, I will assist you any way I can. RoseOfKali 19:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Does anyone know of any much project for that matter? Since when last were projects *really* actively contributed to? Face it, this is a wiki about a dying game with limited content and which isn't getting any more, with official competition from the other wiki and with the game's developers working on the game's successor. Chances are, if its your pet project, only maybe a few others will work on it occaisionally. Honestly, you really shouldn't expect much more - you'll most likely be disappointed. Jennalee 14:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I'm still here, and still caring ^^ I'm working slowly on getting Female Assassin shots. (Anyone want to contribute to my armor fund? ^^;; ) Didn't have time lately, but I should re-shot non-Elite armor soon.
 * I'm also offering my help in taking/cropping images and providing tips. Rose, any idea on how we could promote this thing a bit? &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 00:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No clue... Once I'm bored enough, I'll start asking people who have the armor to let me shoot them if I provide the dye replacement...  As for me, I might be able to buy armor again after I get my few thousand ectos for my mini collection...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 00:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * After I finish tagging all armor images with, I will work on the Warrior male galleries (Charr hide, Sunspear, and Shing Jea are not done? wtf). If I can afford any of the elite armors, I will try doing those as well. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 01:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Firstly, aren't the Dwarven armor "sets" more correctly called Deldrimor and thus, should all be renamed as such? Also, shouldn't a standard format be worked out for them, with standardized names for all the images (and cleaning up uneeded/orphaned ones?) and have all the existing ones reuploaded under the correct name? Jennalee 13:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it's NOT called Deldrimor, they all have different names, and the players collectively gave it the name Dwarven, which I think should stay, since that's what everyone uses anyway. Trying to rename everything will be a monstrous effort that's uncalled for.  As far as a "template" goes, I thik what I did with the Necromancer Dwarven armor is as close to "templatized" as it can get.  If you want to make an ACTUAL template specifically for Dwarven, feel free to do so, but I think it'll be of little use at the moment considering the condition of the image galleries right now, half of the image links will be red.  Good job on the male monk, but still need to fill in the individual piece galleries...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * IMO, it is Dwarven with the exception of one gallery which was named Deldrimor because the first one started as that and everyone copied. However, it's probably more accurate to call the 'sets' Deldrimor since it is the name of the title track given by those particular dwarves for the PvE skills etc with many skill names based on it and dwarf/dwarven is more general and encompasses the stone summit too. As for renaming everything, aren't you going about it anyway since most of the images for those sets are currently under the incorrect names? You may as well give everything the more 'official' name while you're at it (which, besides, sounds nicer). I didn't see this discussion when I started on the male monk ones on a friend's acct and didn't realise there were individual galleries which is why i didn't finish those but I'll try get those done by the end of the week. Jennalee 23:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well the heroes' armor is Deldrimor armor, and other hero armor sets usually match character armors, i.e. Ancient armor and Primeval armor. Also, the official wiki uses GWW:Deldrimor armor.  I agree with Jennalee that they should be renamed, but Rose is right in that it would take a lot of work to do so.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

All things considered, I think making a separate armor template for the dwarven galleries would be the best way to go. I this, we have two options for the main gallery. One is the way I set up the Necromancer Dwarven armor, which is: An alternative to the entire above setup would be making the "Deldrimor" armor gallery just like any other armor gallery, with the same Component view. Now there are again two options for the sub-galleries: not bothering with the individual pieces, and simply redirecting those pages to the main gallery, or making them anyway and simply linking to them from the main gallery. All this must be decided upon, and the template must be made before undertaking this monstrous image renaming project, or we'll have to do it twice. I tried to somewhat standardize the Warrior Dwarven armor gallery and its subpages by matching it to my necro gallery, but it is MUCH MORE work than I originally anticipated (fill in and "standardize" all information, dowload images, re-upload images with the original uploader credit, tag old ones for deletion... UGH...), and I'm not going to bother working on the others until there is a concensus on the template issue. And one last thing, I'm not competent enough to write the new template unless I take about a week to work on it and learn all I need to know about the code capabilities, so it would be great of someone more "edumacated" in wiki template code did it. RoseOfKali 03:52, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Overview: a set of three full gray images, front/back/side, just like any other armor gallery
 * 2) Component View: a set of 3 or 4 (depending on availability of gloves) or front gray view of each of the separate pieces, with a link to that piece's gallery in the heading
 * 3) Colorable Areas: a set of three full dyed images like in any other gallery
 * A separate section of the template will deal with the sub-galleries, which would contain the standard crafting info box for that piece and male/female galleries of 6 images each, 3 gray and 3 dyed, of front/back/side of the piece. An alternative to this would be making this the component view of the main gallery and redirecting the individual piece's page to that main gallery.
 * So, the decisions to be made are two:
 * 1) A. Keep Component View just like any other armor gallery, B. Make it the set of 4 (or 3) front gray views of the individual pieces with links to the piece galleries, or C. Make it into a component view of each separete piece (I don't really like C, too much on one page, but just throwing it out there)
 * 2) Do or do not make the galleries for the individual pieces (decision is only if A is chosen, for options B and C the individual sub-galleries must be made)

If you want a template, just bug someone good at those things who'd get it done really fast and efficiently <_< - just decide on how you want it now. Thing is, they aren't treated as a true armor 'set' per se since they can't be added to the HoM as one and are individual pieces, so treating them as individual pieces with their subgalleries makes sense in this respect. Also, some of the deldrimor armor sets look more like true armor sets than others so it'd make sense to treat the pieces separately, but they are usually worn together so it makes sense having all of them worn and displayed as one set. However, it's just a lot more work having so many subgalleries when the normal component view for galleries works fine for most things normally. So, it's a choice between doing more work so it makes more sense in the way ANet has made the 'sets' or having them like any other armor gallery which would also do the job but be less correct since they aren't a true set.

Thing is, I believe was already decided to have subgalleries for all the pieces soon after people found they couldn't put them in the HoM as a set, as currently is implemented. Jennalee 07:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, if all the galleries are going under Deldrimor, you can at least start to rename all the full 'set' shots under standardized names like they are templated for with the other galleries and rename component shots after how those are to be done is decided. It should not break anything if a new template is to be made. Jennalee 07:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Urgh, the subgalleries structure though takes a LOT more effort than a normal armor gallery. Jennalee 10:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What is the difference between this armor galleries and other ones? The fact that they can not be put into the HoM? If so, what would be the difference between these and sets that can not be added to the HoM because they are not elite versions. They all use the default armor template. The original judgment of separating each component, seems to be wrong considering the rest of the wiki uses another system. -- Xeon 13:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The difference is that these armor pieces do not have any unified name that ties them together. Instead of being "Tyrian Attire", "Tyrian Hose", "Tyrian Gloves", and "Tyrian Footwear", which makes them all part of the Mesmer Tyrian armor set, these have completely individual names, putting them in the same class as the Mask of the Mo Zing or Glacial Gauntlets.  Beyond the naming, though, they don't even have any stylistic elements in common with each other (just look at Necromancer Dwarven armor, none of those pieces match at all).  The only thing tying these pieces together is the fact that they are crafted by the same armorsmith.  The bottom line is that they are not an armor set by any definition.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't anybody else going to comment about this? Can't go about working on improving the organisation without some concensus on how to go about it Jennalee 09:33, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Ishmael has a good point, I think. If I feel like it sometime soon (or if someone else would be so nice 8-]), I'll try making a template that would follow the layout of the Necromancer Dwarven armor for the main page (I think that's the best way to do it, unless anyone objects), and then make a separate "common armor" template that can be used for the Deldrimor pieces as well as the common pieces which still have no template, in essence it's the same concept for both. Normally, the common armor layout would be all that's needed for the Deldrimor pieces, but so many people wear them together and want to see them together that making one main "Profession Deldrimor armor" page with a full gray and colorable views is justified, imho. Plus, it allows easier integration into the profession armor pages. Time to learn some wiki-code. XD RoseOfKali  17:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll accept the "grouped" image since, as you say, that's what people expect. And since they are a category or class of armor, it makes sense to have the "Profession Deldrimor armor" page.  We just don't need to put as much effort into that page as we would true armor sets - show the grouped image and link to the pages for the individual pieces, no need for a crafting costs summary or anything like that.  Unless someone else gets to it first, I can try working on the template (I've never messed with the armor galleries before) after I finish fixing up the disambiguation pages.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Common armor galleries
It would be nice if you would mess with the template this time Ishmael. You could probably make it a modified version of the normal armor template.

For example, I'd say, want to enter in something like this for my current monk one for the main gallery:

This for a subgallery:

For the main gallery, I personally prefer to have the individual components first before both the shots showing the pieces worn together since the emphasis for the 'sets' is on the pieces alone but either way, it doesn't make a very big difference.

Galleries with sections complete enough to base/test on:
 * Necromancer Dwarven armor
 * Monk Dwarven armor

Jennalee 00:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good, except I'd rename "Armor art gallery subgallery" (lol?) to "Common armor art gallery" which would also apply to things like Chaos Gloves or Mask of the Mo Zing RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I created by copying  and taking out a lot of stuff.  All it has is front-back-side for gray and front-back-side for dyed, and if you leave out the Color parameter, it will just say "This armor piece cannot be dyed," for pieces like Glacial Gauntlets.  I also made the image names more strict - left out the Type-file parameter - and changed Type to Name.  I converted Gloomcrest Tunic/Female to use this already.
 * Does anything else need to be added for this one? I'll get to work on the Deldrimor overview template in a little bit.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:55, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll start on converting the other pages to the common template. Very nicely done!  Would it be possible to add the Category:Armor subpages thing into the armor templates so it doesn't need to be manually added everywhere?  Or would it screw with things?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:04, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * We ran a bot task to add that category to all "/Male" and "/Female" pages already, so I don't see how putting it in the template would help. It would require a bit of complicated coding to make it appear only on the subpages and not on the main armor page, too.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, check out, implemented on Monk Dwarven armor/Female. Takes Chest/Hands/Legs/Feet as arguments, if any are not present they get skipped.  Color is required, otherwise the same as the common armor template.
 * Three things need to happen to get all this completed:
 * Convert all common armors to use.
 * Rename all "Dwarven armor" pages to "Deldrimor armor".
 * Convert all Deldrimor subpages to use.
 * Someone needs to draw up a checklist where we can keep track of this, I have to go out for a while and may not have time until much later tonight. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh, I don't think all Deldrimor armor 'sets' have the hands. What argument is used for those or is it just ommitted? I just woke up and need to go out very soon but seeing all those changes in RC Ishmael is kind of mindblowing ._. Jennalee 00:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Takes Chest/Hands/Legs/Feet as arguments, if any are not present they get skipped." (Well, this only needed to be implemented for the gloves, the others are always there.) I've been gone the whole day and then we were trying to fix internet issues, so I'm not quite up to speed with what's going on, my watchlist just went crazy, but I'll help if you tell me what to do. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:39, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Checklist done at the bottom of this project. Hope it helps. RoseOfKali 03:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Man, going through this and seeing how few actual different, properly done images are in these galleries makes you realise how much depressing fail they are atm x_x Jennalee 06:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah... *sigh* RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 06:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Deldrimor Armor component images
Should at least one set of the component images, say the dye ones, be done in the dye preview window near fully zoomed in or fully zoomed in since it gives a very high res? It would allow the detailing on the sets to be seen much better. Jennalee 09:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. A good resolution high quality image provides plenty of detail when you zoom in on it.  I think that doing the cropped versions would make the gallery look rather... ugly...  It would also be difficult to make the all the same ratio without using lots of blank space everywhere.  There's no reason to give this gallery different treatment from all the others.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * One thing I thought of this morning, though, is what about earrings? Those come with the chest piece, right?  So do any of the Deldrimor chest pieces have earrings?  If so, I can add that into the templates.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From what I can see, most of them do not have earrings (some are impossible to tell due to the horrid image quality... >_<), but the Mesmer Elegant Long Coat does. Thus, so far only one out of FIFTY pieces using the common template will have earrings...  But, they do exist.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You only need the same aspect ratio in one row - if you did them zoomed in on the dyed version row and had them all the same size, it wouldn't affect the other rows in that gallery. Even if you see plenty of detail fully zoomed in normally, the dye preview will be about 4x larger. Jennalee 21:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * A few things in the dye preview's favor: 1) It's guaranteed neutral lighting. 2) It wouldn't require anyone to waste any dyes just to upload the pictures.  3) It's quite easy to frame exactly what you want with a level (horizontal) perspective.  4) What Jennalee said.  Personally I wouldn't have any problem with dye preview screenshots.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I am still strongly NOT in favor of cropping them around the piece in question. Necromancer Deldrimor armor/Male was done in dye preview by me, because I own the female version of the armor, and was forced to do preview.  I don't mind them how they are, but I would discourage cropping out the pieces on their own, leave the whole head-to-toe view in it.  When I said before that it would be difficult making them a consistent ratio, I was referring to the ratio amongst themselves, not relative to the rest of the gallery, and I still maintain that.  Sure you can fit the shot to be exactly as wide as the preview window, but it'll be different heights and require different amounts of blank space.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * How is it any different from doing the galleries for headgear of which a lot is done in the dye preview window? I don't see you complaining about that. All you do is rotate and crop all the images the same size as the largest will be. Jennalee 09:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

A head is always easy to make into a square and is always the smallest part? It is also always cropped around the head because, you know, it's a head image, they're all cropped. Plus, I often take headgear separate from armor, and don't want to make a trip to nameless for one or two shots, and I did all male necro headgear by preiewing my female's assets, so there was no other way. If that's what you really wanna do, have fun, I'm curious to see how it turns out, especially gloves vs. tunic. I just really don't think it'll look good and in my mind it's not justified to zoom every armor piece into sizes that would never be seen outside of a preview window. Now you have two choices. If you keep the gray/overview as it is now and do colorable cropped out in preview, the gallery will be unbalanced, and if you do all of them in cropped preview, you lose perspective to the character's whole body. Like I said before, I don't really have anything about the dye preview itself, what I don't like is 1) the idea of cropping things down to one armor piece in view and 2) why make Deldrimor galleries even more different than they already are and give them "extra-special" treatment? RoseOfKali 18:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Atm, you already have a space to show all the components shown together, dyed and images to show them separately, gray and dyed. The showing of the separate components, dyed so small is kind of redundant since you have them shown all together dyed and that already shows dyeable areas. Why not just go better and show them dyed, zoomed in? Is there something inherently wrong with giving them special treatment? The idea is to have something like this just for the dyed single component section. Jennalee 23:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm getting confused. Anyway, this seems like a mute discussion, you feel strongly one way and I the other, it's ok, just do how you feel and we'll see what happens.  Heck, if this is what you wanna do, why not do a whole dye chart instead?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, aren't all the images in an armor gallery supposed to have a purpose, to show some detail of an armor set in a way? I'm trying to say that atm, having the dyed single armor shots in the Deldrimor armor galleries is somewhat redundant if they're going to be small and show near exactly the same thing as the full dyed view so you may as well show them in the dye preview window, fully zoomed in. The gray zoomed out component views will still show how they look in relation to the body. I don't see how a dye chart has anything to do with it. Jennalee 02:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Wasn't there a plan to do dye charts for all armor? (Not like that's ever gonna happen, realistically, considering the current state of the galleries as a whole...)  And having the full view is basically just trying to stay semi-consistent with the style of the other galleries.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Other galleries don't actually have a dyed component view but they do have gray component views so it'd be consistent within itself if you wanted to have zoomed in dye component views. Dye charts would be a separate project if you want to make a page for it. Jennalee 08:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Earrings
Are you going to implement this Dr Ishmael? Jennalee 08:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'll do that right now. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Added Earrings option to, and updated Elegant Long Coat/Female to show it. I also updated the template to have "fake" headers, so people won't be confused and try to edit the template anymore.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Some modeling help
i might be able to help with some modeling on some armors, but not screening and croping the images cause i have to limited computer access, so i'm just offering my help as a model, Kurtan 19:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Great. Please check the project page and see which armors that you own still have a [[Image:Nope.png|16px]] or especially a [[Image:Attn.png|16px]] next to them, list them here and let us know your in-game name and when you are available.  It will be much appreciated if you can purchase your own dye (gray plus any other color you like, for the whole set), but if not, it will be provided for you.  Thanks.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * i might be able to get online today sometime, Male necro vabbian armor, Male assassin Ancient armor and Male dervish primeval and norn. might have some more but those are the ones i remember i have. Kurtan 15:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I added Kurtan The Killer to friends and I'll bug you if I see you online. Male Necro Vabbian would be the first I'd want to do, it's the worst of them all and relatively hard to find. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:06, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for modeling today. Necromancer Vabbian armor/Male is now up and I'll put up Assassin Ancient armor/Male probably tomorrow.  I'll see your Dervish next time. :)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Some more models for the project
After my recent screw up with the Paragon Deldrimor armor, I am willing to be a model for a selection of incomplete armor (I can screenshot/edit my own pics, but I'd prefer not to). Currently I can model for : (N.B I cant do the scalp designs) Thats it, I am willing to un-dye the warrior armor, but not the others, due to my current funds :P. Just message me whenever im online and I should be free. I will also do the separate view pics.  }{ Ipo™ }{  13:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Regular Luxon Female W
 * Regular Platemail Female W
 * Regular Kurzick Male M (dye version only, poor after dying it white)
 * Regular Luxon Female M (dye version only, poor after dying it black)
 * Elite Canthan Female Mes (dye version only, poor after dying it black)
 * Regular Kurzick Female A (dye version only, poor after dying it white)
 * My brother has a female warrior with white primeval, so thats also another one I will model for (but not remove dye, due to it not being my character).  }{ Ipo™ }{  13:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Like I already said on your talk page, you did a great job taking the screen shots. You just need to make sure you crop them to the same pixel size with each other.  I will go into the armor galleries that you mentioned and setup the image links for you to make it easier to upload.  Don't get discouraged, I actually got banned for my first screw up (yeah, I've never heard of the one-revert policy until AFTER the ban ^_^).  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added hidden code for you to each of those page. When you go into the armor page for the appropriate gender and hit edit, somewhere you will find a section that looks something like


 * All you need to do is remove the first and last comment lines to make the stuff inside show up in the article, and then delete the "bad" images/galleries above it, I tried to tell what to delete specifically.  Let me know if you still need help, or if you really don't feel like doing this yourself.  :)
 * So, pages you should be editing are:


 * Warrior Luxon armor/Female
 * Warrior Platemail armor/Female
 * Monk Kurzick armor/Male
 * Monk Luxon armor/Female
 * Mesmer Elite Canthan armor/Female
 * Assassin Kurzick armor/Female
 * Warrior Primeval armor/Female
 * I thinks that's all of them. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So what your saying is that I remove all the words/data inside the ? I may just replace all the images (if thats alright), and hopefully that should replace the old images, with my newer versions, correct?  }{ Ipo™ }{  20:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're going to be uploading an entire new set of images, then it would actually be best to delete everything except for the {{Armor art gallery  template (the bit between Rose's comments), then use the redlinks that the template generates to upload your images. That way we get better images and better image names at the same time.  I can watch and see which pages you do this on, then I'll delete the old images that you replaced.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I will upload the pics etc over the next week maybe a bit longer, but might be limited to the number I can upload due to real life things. If it means avoided the need to handle with coding/templates I would greatly appreciate deleting the old pics. I am going to finish off the male deldrimor paragon gallery first, then proceed to work my way through the list above. Again, deleting the old pics would be helpful and greatly appreciated.  }{ Ipo™ }{  23:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, we will delete the old images, and like Dr. Ishmael said, the bit between my comments is what you need to keep, delete the other stuff. If the bit between my comments is a "Template:something", then delete everything else on the page and just keep that bit.  If the bit is a "Colorable areas" section, delete the duplicate Colorable areas just above it.  And don't worry, we'll be watching you, so don't be afraid to mess something up, nothing is irreversible.  Just try and learn.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)