Talk:Alliance Battle/archive1

Some things I've found useful: Aegis and heal party are excellent, it costs a fraction of using it indivdually, fertile season and symbiosis, put fertile season behind your battle line and see who has more enchantments, then make a decision whether to use symbiosis, put predatory season behind their lines, primal echos rocks on elite shrine things, disease and EoE are great too. Things that affect everything are better than spells targeting one person. well of suffering and traps on the points you own are a great plan. This is great :D 19:42, 26 March 2006 (CST)


 * I want to say that whoever first suggested EoE as an idea for these battles is.. Well.. Not a very smart person. Now all alliance battles have EoE + Fertile Season + Symbiosis + Whatever, even Greater Conflagration for God's sake! The funniest thing is.. If your team happens to be near it's shrine when EoE triggers off.. Then Kablooey! Everyone dies (your team and theirs) and then you all get rezzed right next to EoE.. Die.. Res.. Die.. Res.. Die.. With no apparent end in sight. Meanwhile.. If the other team had taken more control points than you, then you lose.. Badly. This has happened every time I went to an Alliance Battle on Saturday. Each time we won because the opposing team (3 out of 3 times) spammed EoE and kept killing themsleves (and us) over and over. The spirit spammers are simply retarded. --Karlos 06:54, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * A lot of this stuff has already changed over the course of the weekend. Friday, I could put up Preservation or Recuperation spirits, and no one touched them.  They are often the first thing the enemy targets now, in Random Arena.  The Alliance battles have gotten a lot better as the day has gone on (Saturday and Sunday), as people figured stuff out.  I'm pretty sure EoE won't be the standard way to play Alliance Battles for long (I don't see much of them, though some). --JoDiamonds 08:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)

I spent all weekend with 6 spirit skillbar.. i may have started that =p 14:43, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * Alliance battles were fun. I guess the popularity of EoE came right after the first person figured out that MMing would be nice and dominated. So the next person figured that EoE would be a great counter. My personal favorite for this weekend was Barrage however. Apart from having a dragon following me around obviously ;-) --Xeeron 17:39, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * EoE is a way of turning the tide. The best use for is no doubt in defense of a shrine that belongs to you already. Plant the EoE if you stand against a larger number of enemies and see that you get as many of them down as possible. When they die along with you, you will gain more points for the kills than they will and you will keep the shrine. We won quite some times because of defending while under EoE. --Nilles 21:27, 31 March 2006 (CST)

Cavalon and House Zu Heltzer captured?
SOmeone wrote that cavalon and house zu helzter have never been captured by the opposing faction in te history of the game, I myself have seen both of these occur on a few occasions and find this statement to be utter bull. While it certainly is a rare occasion it still happens. I have corrected this incorrect information.

PROOF, took me a while, but last night I got some screens showing House Zu Heltzer being recapped by the Kurzicks http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4093/gw078on2.jpg http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4041/gw079vn6.jpg http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6185/gw080yy5.jpg I told you :D In your face Saranis ---That doesn't show it. Whenever a border moves, ALL towns and challenge missionsa get to see that effect (even those that can't be captured).Dark Luke 13:40, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

--I agree, I've seen it happen a few times


 * Please link or upload some screen shots showing that. --Xeeron 08:10, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

-- It would be difficult to do so considering how rarely it happens, but I will keep an eye out.

House zu Heltzer and Cavalon can NOT be captured by the opposing faction. they can be surrounded by it but those 2 cities will always remain to the home faction.--Saranis 08:36, 15 February 2007 (CST) -- In addition, it is impossible to even have the faction border to completely surround Cavalon - see. For House of Heltzer it might be possible if 6 Kurzick towns are captured by luxons - if anyone has a screenshot of the faction border where Tanglewood copse is under Luxon control, then please post it... --Dark Luke 18:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)

Thats so sad that you can have played so long and only recently have seen that message. Thats not proof. Also it doesnt happen WHEN the city is retaken, it happens every time the battline changes. Again, No proof that the main cities have been taken means that it hasnt happened. I've yet to see it as well as anyone else in my Alliance. Arenanet themselves said that House Zu Heltzer and Cavalon were NON-CONTESTED locations. Capital Cities can NOT be taken by the opposing faction. --72.75.76.88 12:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Third alliance battle map?
From the layout of the maps and the borderline, it seems like there are 3 alliance battle maps: Etnaran keys (Luxon on defense), Saltspray beach (draw) and one more (Kurzicks on defense). Unfortunatly, Luxons were on the defense most of the weekend, so whenever I checked, it was one of the above maps. Did anyone see or know of the third map? --Xeeron 19:05, 27 March 2006 (CST)
 * I don't know about the point you raise, but this Luxon/Luxons and Kurzick/Kurzicks thing is bothering me. Luxon is the name of the faction, right? Shouldn't the name for a group of them also be Luxon, then? As in: "the Luxon were mostly on defence" as opposed to "the Luxons were mostly on defence"? Otherwise the faction would be called the Luxons. And the same with Kurzick. It's really not very important, but I just needed to get it off my chest.


 * As for the alliance battles.. it was pretty good fun, actually. AoE spells ruled the day, with an Earthquake/Aftershock/Eruption earth warder being pretty effective. Playing monk in the battles wasn't fun, however, as the only way to ensure you wouldn't be the only one on your team would be to take three others in with you :P. Shandy 20:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * The faction is Luxon. As in the Luxon Nation, were they a nation.  However, the people from there are Luxons, in the same way that people from Boston are Bostonians.  It would be right to say, "The Luxon nation was on defense" or that "The Bostonians were wrecking everyone", since both were true.  ;)
 * I didn't mind the lack of Monks that much, because they are less necessary when everyone rezzes relatively quickly without DP. They are obviously still useful, but not the same as either PvE or any PvP.  It's a brave new world!
 * In short, both are right.
 * --JoDiamonds 05:46, 28 March 2006 (CST)
 * I bet there are 5 maps. One in the middle (Saltspray Beach). Two just into the other side (Etnaran Keys/X). And two that are far into the other side (X/X). Time will tell. :P --Ravious 05:59, 28 March 2006 (CST)

There were at least 3. But you only saw 2 during most of the weekend. When I got down to the bottom areas of the Luxon side 2 of the towns were blue and the line moved twice to the most diagonal spot you saw most often during the weekend where Luxons controlled 11 total cities and Kurzicks controlled 12 (this happened early friday morning). I was, unfortunately, more into the PvE aspects of the game since I had already explored the PvP during the PvP weekend so I never got a chance to see the third. Really wish this event had been longer, there was much I still wanted to do. | Chuiu 06:23, 28 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, there are almost certainly at least three. There could be 30, for all we know, though I doubt it's that high.  This was a little taste, a preview, a general beta.  I'd be surprised if there were less than five, and wouldn't be surprised if there were as many as nine, maybe more. --JoDiamonds 07:00, 28 March 2006 (CST)

There are 5 that I know of... Luxon: Kaanai Canyon, Etnaran Keys, Saltspray Beach, Grenz Frontier, Ancestral Lands: Kurzick

Points
The time is 7 seconds. I recorded alliance battle matches on July 16, 2006 using FRAPS to confirm the seconds.

There was a little confusion about points... I was under the impression that you only scored points for capturing and holding control points ("flags") on the map, but one of my buddies swears up and down that you get points for killing the enemy. I think he's full of crap but I thought I'd ask here and see if anyone could confirm or deny. I was so busy running around and trying to stay alive and capture points that I never really kept an eye on the score when I was fighting. Cheers Mrwiz 04:50, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * I believe you do get points for killing enemies. Several times when I was playing, one side or the other had no shrines at all, yet still gained points.  Unless there's yet another way to get points, I assume it was because of kills.  --JoDiamonds 05:48, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * I can definitely confirm that you do gain points from a kill. At one point, even though my side controlled all control points, the other side still gained a point by killing someone.
 * As a side note, the overloading of the word "points" makes it hard to unambiguously discuss alliance battles. The goal is to hold all points in order to gain points, since if you win, you get more points. --adeyke 11:08, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Better split this from my rant: You definitly get points for killing, that is you get 1 point for each enemy killed. Easiest to check when one team was boxed in and the other had people suicide on the Base Defender (so to be totally correct: You get 1 point for each dead human enemy, even if you did not kill him yourself). --Xeeron 17:40, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Rant: ARGH. Yes! The one thing that ANet is horrible about is NAMEING things. There is Tyria the continent, on tyria the world. Also on Tyria (the world) is Cantha the continent, including Cantha the nation. In Cantha (the nation) 2 factions fight for control in the expansion called factions, where people struggle to get faction with the factions of factions (the expansion). That is unless they are busy getting faction (with Balthazar). To get faction (with the factions) you have to hold control points in order to get points. Of course you also want your character to get attribute points, fame and rank. Like your character, your alliance (not the faction) also wants rank, gained by spending faction for the alliance. Your guild as well would like to gain rank, but for this you need guild rating. So all is very simple as you see. Now only get used to spirits and spirits, who are different, but definitly not ghosts and the ton of stuff I forgot now and you are set for Arena Nets name chaos. --Xeeron 17:40, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Faction, faction and factions. Pretty confusing over Vent/TS :P 148.177.129.213 17:47, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Lol, yes. I decided to refer to faction points as bf, kf and lf standing for Balthazar faction, Kurzick faction and Luxon facion. --Nilles 21:33, 31 March 2006 (CST)


 * FWIW, I believe some of the in-game messages actually referred to "control points" as shrines sometimes (so I try to use that word exclusively, even though the tutorial called them control points, iirc). --JoDiamonds 04:44, 29 March 2006 (CST)

Post-FPE
Since Alliance Battles are no longer fought in groups of 12 but rather in 3 groups of 4, mass group heals, protection and so on are no longer effective. --Nilles 11:31, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

Is there any other additional information regarding post-FPE alliance battles? It seems that no one is able to provide information regarding how it works for Factions. I'm not even quite certain how to get to them. Any insight? 21:41, 8 May 2006 (PST)
 * Your guild leader has to get far enough in PvE to join one side or the other. I guess you might be able to guest with another guild that's already joined a side.  (Also, only sign with four tildes, not five.) --68.142.13.105 23:48, 8 May 2006 (CDT)

Where are they? How do you get there?
This article needs to describe how and under what circumstances you access the alliance battles. I get there from my guild hall, but aren't there NPCs in the world? Someone just asked me in the game and I have no idea. Can you only go from your guild hall? What are the requirements for this?


 * Done. --65.95.88.20 22:21, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

Is there anyway to get there without GWF? Cheers12 23:01, 20 June 2006 (CDT)


 * No. Alliance Battles are a unique feature of GWF. --Nilles 04:50, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

Map selection
Anyone else hate the map selection system? For one thing, because the Luxons either suck or attract a different type of player, they always seem to be losing slightly, meaning the most played map is Etnaran Keys, which is both boring and immensely unfair when facing a luxon team that actually know a little about how to play the game. I've been playin a lot of 12v12 lately, and yet I've only ever played 2 of the 5 different maps. A waste of map design time if you ask me, and quickly tedious. Even the RA's have more variation. -- Bishop [ rap|con ] 11:26, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Interesting. 2 weeks ago, the Luxons were owning the Kurzicks. Durheim Archives were theirs half the time. The Kurzicks have made a nice push lately, but I have been to Grenz' more than any other map. (I have not tried AB in over a week). --Karlos 02:59, 11 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Just played a string of matches tonight. Exactly same story as before: On Saltspray (even map), Kurz win 9 out of 10. As soon as the map switches to the Keys (lux advantage), Luxons win 9 out of 10. It's kinda silly. -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 15:42, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, overall there seems to be a huge imbalance between Kurzick and Luxon participation. I have shared Bishop's experience. But after all, there is nothing we can do about it, don't we? --Nilles 17:01, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * It's true there's nothing we can do about it, besides voice opinions here and on the guru. We know ANet read both. (btw, I'm amazed how big a difference the maps make, it's like someone casts Summon Nooblars on the Kurzicks whenever the map changes to the Keys. I wonder if it's because most of the skilled players simply log off or go farm until it's back to Seaspray.) -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 18:35, 18 June 2006 (CDT)

I think there are more Kurzicks overall than Luxons. Judging by Ft.Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, I always find more Kurzicks than Luxons. It's about 1.5 to 1 and sometimes 2 to 1. --Karlos 19:38, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Not that this should necessarily affect who wins more often. If anything, it would mean that the smaller group of players would get more experience playing (because they aren't sitting around waiting for opponents as much, like the larger group).  But I'd agree that there are more Kurzicks than Luxons. --JoDiamonds 16:00, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, the gear trick has finally found out why Luxons are that handicapped in AB: (link)... ~ Nilles (chat) 05:40, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Ive noticed actually, that there are way more Kurzick,but a lot more noobs. There a fewer Luxon, but more overall Skilled players(Ive been on both a lot, so i know) I've seen first hand Luxon hold Kurzick in Anc Lands for a week, but kurz has never held Luxon in Kaanai canyon for 3 days. I AB a lot, so I also know about this...I have friend of luxons, so there is my proof that i am experienced. Also, refering to what this section was made about, I do too. I can go off for one day, and see the maps go from Kaanai Canyon to Ancestral Lands. I AB if we r in Anc Lands, Kaanai, or Saltspray. I personally like Saltspray the Best, but I play best on Etnaran Keys(Im Luxon)

White Towel and Knockout
The page currently says "a white towel winning situation is if the entire opposing party leaves. A knockout winning condition is if one side can hold all 7 control points for 60 consecutive seconds.". I have never heard of white towel or knockout being used within Guild Wars as official terms in this way. If these are slang people really use, let's put them on slang pages, but if no one else has ever heard of them, let's just remove them. Of course, if I'm just uninformed, someone let me know where these terms show up in game. --JoDiamonds 16:03, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * If you hold all the points for 60 secs, thats correct, but those terms aren't used anywhere unless the kurzick commandent says them in his explanation, and I find that unlikely &mdash; Skuld  16:16, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I have played many Alliance Battles and have never heard these terms used in relation to Guild Wars.--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 16:30, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * *Sigh* You guys have been cocooned in your GW personas for too long. White towel and knockout are general sports expressions. They come from boxing. :) If you want me to put links to the wikipedia expressions, I can do that, but don't take them out to put in a long two lines explanation of what they mean. White towel means the other side has surrendered and knockout means... well.. you knocked the other guy out before the end of 15 rounds. --Karlos 16:45, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I knew that! &mdash; Skuld  16:46, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I know the terms, which come from more than just boxing (though knockout clearly is mostly known from boxing). As stated, my issue is the way they are currently is as if they are official GuildWars terminology.  I have no problem using general terms when they help, but I think they are more of a hindrance in this case, as I doubt most people know the terms well enough or think of them generally enough.  I would absolutely prefer two long lines of explanation, personally, but it's up for debate.  --JoDiamonds 17:23, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I think both of these terms are understood by the majority, but unless it's a term readily used in game, I don't think it should be used as an official term and added to the slang pages. If we start adding terms only because someone has used them as a description, it won't be long before we'll be adding stuff like 'mutiny' for a player who enters an alliance battle and stands there just to farm faction.--&mdash;  xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 18:04, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hah! I thought Italicizing them was enough of an indication that these are not in-game terms. Since when do we italicize in-game terms? I prefer italics to quotes any time, so that's why I used italics. --Karlos 18:39, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

I'm going to bring this back up for discussion: I'm not particularly keen on using boxing terms to describe an in-game victory condition, and I don't feel that the terms "white towel" and "knockout" accurately describe the conditions. I propose a rewording of this particular segment to: A faction may be given an automatic victory under the following circumstances: that faction controls all seven capture points for 60 seconds, or when all members of the opposing faction leave the match." --  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  13:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Because Whitetowel and Knockout are easier to read/type/say than A faction may be given an automatic victory under the following circumstances: that faction controls all seven capture points for 60 seconds, or when all members of the opposing faction leave the match."--Old Man Of Ascalon [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 01:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What does "ease" have to do with anything? --[[Image:Rapid Fire.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  06:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Work smarter, not harder noob.--Old Man Of Ascalon [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C) 21:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * First of all, don't call (specific) people noobs. Second, we largely have to assume that whoever is looking at the page is a completely ignorant moron and/or isn't from the US, and therefore won't understand what some of those terms mean. Therefore, we should just say it the way it is in game: that holding all points for 60 seconds or the entire other team leaving/resigning offers an instant victory --Gimmethegepgun 21:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Neutral
pretty sure there is no neutral, Luxon isn't meant to have Harvest Temple by default. Keys is Luxon, Saltspray is Kurzick makes more sense to me


 * Nope, Harvest Temple is Luxon. Check the exclusive area there. It has a Luxon Sentry. --Karlos 21:41, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Did you check while the Luxons or the Kurzicks held the outpost? --Xeeron 07:00, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * The Harvest Temple is near the edge of the forest and definitely in the Jade Sea. I think it's pretty much designed to be an edge, but it is surrounded by Jade Sea.  Additionally, it's pretty clear (from playing multiple maps) that Saltspray is the neutral map. --JoDiamonds 09:04, 23 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I believe it goes off which side most recently won enough battles at Saltspray, making the temple the only area that does not have a "default" side controlling it. 19:45, 28 June 2006 (GMT)


 * I listed it as Luxon after I visited it while it was under Kurzick control and found the exclusive area still guarded by "Luxon Sentries." Here, is this proof enough for you?
 * [[image:Harvest_Temple_Luxon.jpg]]
 * Not to mention the fact that it completes the list of 9 outposts in the Luxon side and that Unwaking Waters (Explorable) has Luxon Chests. --Karlos 04:13, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
 * There is no neutral in contested areas. Its the Harvest Temple for the Luxons and Durheim Archive for the Kurzicks on the front line. The Imperialist

Reward Screenshot
I changed the Reward section back to "minimum". For details please see the screenshot(thumbnail) on the right. ~ Nilles (chat) 15:05, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

5 maps?
Are we sure there's only 5 maps? Or is that the one's we've seen because i'm fairly certain there's at least 2 more before the capital cities (one on each side)
 * Proof plz, im pretty sure there isn't &mdash; Skuld  16:28, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

Your right, it doesnt make sense that they will be only 5 maps else if every 2 cities the map changes. I wonder how will be a battle in the capital :), though the chances it will ever pass Grenz Frontier/Etnaran Keys is pretty much small

--Ofer1992 06:36, 15 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Momentum Bonus. By the way, does anyone have info on this? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:42, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

They go past Grenz Front and Etn Keys oftenly, to Anc Lands and Kaanai lotsnow, but I AB every day, and never seen others. It makes since to me that there may be 3 on each side, with Saltspray being the "Nuetral" Ground. I'd say the third pop-up at the main 3/2 Cities(Refer to Jade Sea/Echovalt Forest Area for more info) Also looking at descriptions of maps shows. Quarry Mine or w/e(The third best Luxon town)Has a description saying that it has a hard defense, meaning that there is my Unsupported proof that each side may have 3.

Battlefield Maps notes
"It is possible to come out of a battle and find the place empty. This means that the border has shifted (as a result of the most recent battle) and that players waiting for a game are in another place. To find them, simply return to the guild hall and re-enter the battle again."

Is this still true? The last couple of weeks I've done alot of ABs, I noticed that whenever the map changed (either when I was idling in the AB waiting area or just coming out of an AB match) that I was always in the new area. I've never entered back into an empty one when coming out of a match (unless I ended up in a newly opened District 2 to cope with demand). In fact, when the map does change your party gets split up and you have to rejoin one. (finally got one of those new fangled account thingy-ma-bobs arual 19:23, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

Once i shifted a guild from kurzick to luxon and my necro remained in the kurzick ab outpost. I could use him to fight against the luxon even though my guild was luxon. --Ofer1992 07:30, 21 July 2006 (CDT)


 * As far as my experience goes: What happens is the game does not move you to the new map until everyone is loaded. If the party leader loads and immediately clicks join before everyone else is ready, you are not teleported to the next map: instead the game just counts down forever, "No opposing players joined" etc. This can be fixed by simply changing to another district. However you will lose your party when you are teled to the next map. --MasterPatricko 04:34, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

in line
it seems to be harder and harder to get into AB, esp around peak time pacific. does anyone know why? is this just on the kurzick side, or are the luxons seeing this too? --Honorable Sarah 23:26, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

After August 11, 2006 Update - Automatically resed?
Now that you are apparently automatically resed after dying due to the August 11, 2006 update, res skills are no completely worthless to bring, and should be mentioned as such. However, I am also concerned about how this affects reserection orb shrines, which now seem to have no purpose since the orbs apparently do nothing now (since the players will be resed by the shrines first).
 * possible this is temporary (weekend event?) or bugged? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:34, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It was bugged, but so much fun. I admit, I spawn-camped, and had a field-day chasing minion-less MMs around. And I laughed when I heard people complain about IWAY no longer working - as if IWAY was a good choice in the first place! I'll always treasure the memories. --Black Ark 11:43, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Big Push..
The Kurzicks have pushed VERY deep into Luxon lands since last night. As of now, we hold Bai Paasu Reach. We're still fighting in Kaanai Canyon. --Karlos 14:43, 15 August 2006 (CDT) Linkfix edit. --Rainith 14:58, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * point of order, the weapon and armor crafters in levitan pits will not speak to kurzick players, even if the kurzicks own the town. pity too, i'd like to have some kurzick armor made from jadite. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:02, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * So what about the merchants? Do they stock Kurzick Keys instead of Luxon ones then or what?  --Rainith 15:21, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * they still stock luxon keys, but they talk to kurzicks players and blow off luxons players (except the above mentioned crafters, who still only talk to the luxon). --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:27, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Clarification, it is ONLY the weapon guy and the armor guy. The other vendors (merchant and skills guy) deal with you. My guess is that those two are bugged. i.e. ANet forgot to program them to switch like other vendors. And of course the merchant sells Luxon keys, it's the same merchant. --Karlos 15:29, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I had to log in and see that for myself. Looks like I am back to ABing instead of collecting greens. My poor, poor Luxons. Cap, cap, cap :P -Gares 15:57, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * today is a good day to be a treehugger ;) --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:06, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I had a thought (and I'm obviously not the first to probably think this yadda yadda yadda)... obviously when Kurzicks win enough AB's the border/map gets pushed back; but when on the furthest back of the Luxon maps (the Canyon one) the next step of Kurzicks winning only takes a town (in order of required faction to own) and the AB map stays the same. This would explain why the border keeps moving back... Kurzicks keep winning on the deepest Luxon terratory. The strange thing is that I hear news of alliance teams winning all the time yet we seem to get pushed further back... I'm in one of the biggest Luxon alliances so I'd like to have thought the actions of fellow AB'ers would have made a difference. I wouldn't have thought Kurzicks could take the Leviathon Pits armourer... he makes our 15k stuff^^ --arual 16:16, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * you have to realize that there are literally hundreds of alliance battles over the two hour frontier period. your alliance wins one, and three other luxon alliances lose, it's a net -2 for the luxon side. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:28, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, but after all this time on neutral ground, swaying back and forth around Unwaking Waters, for it to drop right back to near the last town is pretty unlikely - Invinci Steve, 00:22, 16 August 2006 (GMT)
 * didn't Anet just implement a new system of momentum bonuses? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 18:26, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Dunno, was there an update for that? Personally I just think they tweaked something and either accidentally modified the AB stuff inadvertantly or didnt realise the full repercusions within the working game. arual 05:18, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Another question, The Kurzick Merchants that are/were in the Jade Sea explorable areas (you know, hanging around the rez shrines), did they carry Luxon Keys? If so we probably need to update their page to account for that. Also if the discount merchants in the towns sold them, we should do the same there. --Rainith 11:14, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Answered my own question, they still have the keys that are named after their own faction, Kurzick Merchants carry Kurzick keys, even in Luxon areas, and vice versa. --Rainith 20:29, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Pffft. It was all a scam. The momentum shifts had nothing to do with wins or losses. Me thinks the theory that this was a test by ANet holds some weight now. --Karlos 05:42, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

Tonight (I'm living in Germany) there was something really strange going on. Bai Paasu Reach was controlled by the Kurzicks when I went to bed at 01:00 CEST (the next update was at 2:00 o'clock). When I woke up at 9:00 o'clock, Brauer Acedemy was controlled by the Luxons. 8 outposts changed their side within 3 updates - it's strange, isn't it? I don't understand the game anymore. -- numma_cway 09:17, 16 September 2006 (CDT)


 * That would be a result of the current "double fun weekend" (see Anet news). AB's give double faction and the battle line movemnt is accelerated. --84-175 (talk) 09:34, 16 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Thank you. Why don't they announce this in-game? --[[Image:Warrior's_Endurance.jpg|18px]] numma_cway 13:27, 16 September 2006 (CDT)


 * They do. It's one of the announcements on the login page. --Eudas 02:25, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

Desperate for Answers!
If you ask me how can a Kurzick guild own an outpost that is currently holded by a Luxon guild, I would say I don't know, it seems that the answer is running from me and it is complex enough that I can't understand someone if I ask in game, the question is simple:

Guild A is Kurzick and its alliance is worth 3 Millions Kurzick factions. That guild wants to conquer new territory and see another outpost, owned by guild B and guild B is worth 2 Millions. Scenario: Guild A worths more than guild B in terms of factions, but what does AB have to do with this? Can guild A conquer that outpost owned by guild B no matter what happens in AB? (AB= Alliance Battle).

PS: I always thought that guild leader just deliver the factions to the foreign outpost... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.98.85.123 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:06, 16 August 2006 (CDT).
 * alliance battles determine the border and what towns are on which side, and it changes every two hours according to the AB results. Alliances are granted towns in order of highest faction. if the border changes and a 12th town is added to the kurzick side, then the 12th highest kurzick alliance is granted that town.--Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:09, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Ty for your answer, is more clear to me now. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.98.85.123 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:32, 16 August 2006 (CDT).


 * Funny, if Kurzicks own Cavalon, it woul dbe owne dby some weak 2 million faction alliance. :) --Karlos 00:34, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
 * makes 10 hours a day faction farming for cavalon or HzH seem a bit... overrated, huh? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 11:36, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Server Limit?
As my group was having the usual grumble about wait times, someone said that they can only have 5 games going at once, this seems stupid to me, but ive heard it repeated again and again with 5 replaced with anywhere between 3-15. But to me that would just seem stupid on Anets part, to have a feature used by hundreds, advertise events there to millions, and only have enough server space for a few dozen people. Does anyone have any HARD information in the way of dev tema posts on forums or Anet press releases as to whether this is true or not? I cant find any information either way.


 * No hard information here, but based on how ANet uses instancing, I dont believe one word of that. --Xeeron 04:56, 17 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm interested in this information as well. Seems like it's a big hush-hush secret... --Eudas 02:27, 18 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Well one thing is for sure, whoever said anything about 3-15 games at once is talking crap. During the weekend, I played lots of AB, the average waiting time was maybe 15 seconds. The average AB takes what, 15 minutes? So there must have been around 60 simultaneous games. I would not even bother looking into this, that is obviously made up by someone with no clue how instancing works. --Xeeron 04:37, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Agreed--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 05:30, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm not saying its true about the rumor that there are only a few games going on at a time, but a wait time of 15 seconds is pretty rare. What time of day were you playing?  I find that there are much shorter wait times in the morning, around 4-11am est.  Around 8pm it takes closer to 20 minutes to get in.  VegaObscura 04:13, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * it depends more on where the battle lines are, from what I've seen. Playing deep in Kurzick territory will likely draw many more Kurzicks than Luxons, and vice versa.  Neutral zone seems pretty balanced.  If you go in and see 8 or 9 zones and the line is deep in your territory, expect a bit of a wait.   I've played both sides, and the longest wait I've ever had in the middle was about 12 resets (6 minutes), and 34 resets deep in Kurzick (and perhaps worse, as I usually only count the first to gauge the wait - Deep Luxon wait was only about 20 resets when I did it) --Falseprophet 12:16, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Stub
So what else needs to be added to unstub this article? Kessel 21:52, 21 November 2006 (CST)
 * Nothing that i can see, unstubing. Xeon 08:30, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Bug?
While doing AB on the Kurzick side a few days ago, my team got obliterated, but we all stayed at 1 health and our skills didn't work. The Luxons attacked us for a while and then got bored, and left. I don't think it was lag, as it was affecting the whole team, and after a while, natural regen set in and we got our life back. Anyone have this happen as well? Tycn 02:16, 29 December 2006 (CST) Another bug...Every now and then while in AB-The Portals don't work, and the Doors wont open. Just leave, it wont start
 * I've had the same happen before, and usually it's just as a player in your team joins in. For a period of time (not sure what this period is dependent on, perhaps till the player chooses to skip the cutscene and move?) you or your teammates cannot use any skills or move, but cannot die either. This reminds me of how you cannot die during a cutscene in pve even if you have a horde of mobs beating on you. Just my two cents.

Happened to me and another guy on my team (I'm a luxon)it was cool the Kurzicks kept on hitting us and nothing happened they got bored and left I was considering running into the Kurzick base when my invulnerabilty ran out and I dropped dead (sob!) :( Cardsharp 08:10, 16 June 2007 (CDT)Cardsharp

More Bugs
Some bugs I encountered. I'll try to get some ss--IcyShaker 08:24, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Sometimes doors/portals won't open/work. This affect both luxons and kurzicks.
 * Sometimes the score is 33-0 even before the game begins. This usually affects the kurzicks, giving them the head start of 33 points.
 * This is a little late, but the 33-0 thing likely isn't a bug, but is instead because of saccers (which by this point have fallen out of ab)

Extra faction
However, if, at the end of the battle, the winning side receives over 500 points (say, from 499 to 506), they will receive extra faction.

Instead or as well? -- Dashface  09:25, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * How could it be "extra faction" if it wasnt "as well"?~Nahka~ 08:52, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

A glitch
This happened when the server "crashed." We all thought it blew up. The score kept increasing because of all the bases we capped. The only way to leave was to log out. The score would probably have gone into the two-thousands or more of I didn't leave early. All of the other team was transported out except for one person.



Kunpapa 21:33, 4 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Luxon Victory. Not uncommon.  :P  --Old Man Of Ascalon  [[Image:25px-Poiso.jpg]]  (T/C)

Advanced strategy
I'm thinking of writing up a more detailed strategy guide for AB, based on my experience within the battles. My question is, when I finish writing, where would be a good place to post it up? Preferably when it's done, it'll be too long to simply stick into the article here. Would it work simply making a separate article, maybe named "Aliance Battle (strategy)" or something of the like, then linking to it? I only ask because I don't think something like this has been written up before, but it seems like a very helpful idea. I can see good use coming out of similar guides for Random Arenas, etc, as well, simply outlining basic strategy points that most new players might not understand for weeks/months. I think it would make a great addition to the wiki overall, but I'm curious what some of you guys think... I'll probably get a basic outline started in my userspace sometime soon, so you can get a better idea of what I'm trying to do here. -- Jioruji Derako.> 00:48, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * P.S.: Apparently there is a article like this already, for RA (general guide to RA). I'm basically trying to start something along a similar vein for AB. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 00:49, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * general guide to AB seems fine to me. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:51, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll probably get that started soon enough. Need to hang out in AB a bit more, just to get some pointers straight and whatnot. I've been noticing a lot of newbie mistakes though, and when you take advantage of them, winning gets a lot easier... (newbie mistake number one, cap and run... after you capture an important shrine, don't run straight to the next one when you can friggin' see the opposing team coming in... a little defense never hurt.) I'll have some basics laid out soon enough, I love writing. :D --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jioruji Derako.> 01:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds like a good idea. I was wondering what the better strategy is: Capturing a shrine and defending it, or capturing it and going to capture more?

Hard Alliance Battles?
In alliance battle areas there is a Hard option. Is there any info regarding this as far as any changes or anything?
 * I was in Hard Mode alliance battles yesterday and the only difference I noticed was the minions and spirits moving and attacking at the same hyped-up speed as the mobs do in PvE hard mode. Doesn't seem to affect the NPCs at shrines though, only summoned creatures.
 * ha ha, soo funny :) I noticed you get 12 XP per kill - don't you usually get 8 XP? (that would exactly be the +50% boost of hard mode) T.T.H. 20:06, 5 May 2007 (CDT)

What if one team is using Hard Mode and the other team isn't? VegaObscura 13:22, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

Update?
Recent update seems to have pumped shrines considerably...Maybe its just me getting another glitch but I took a level 20 lightning orb from ele shrine in normal and -230 lightning orb in hard (thats like what, level 30?). I've also noticed on monk shrine while we were attacking it, they were constantly rez-ing. Not sure if it was rez orb not disappearing or what, but we killed them each about 3 or 4 times without wiping the shrine. 76.102.172.202 02:05, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

This is a Letter i sent to NC soft, please read it and give suport or crit: To whoever receives this email: This email is in response to the new system that was brought on by the June 22 update for awarding faction. I, and others, feel that while the original intention, to increase the number of players in Alliance battles and the competitive missions, was a very good idea, the result is decremental to the moral of players and the overall playing quality. People on both side (Luxon and Kurzick) disagree with the lowing of the amount of faction the loosing team receives. While it my unbalance the game buy giving out more faction and not reducing the amount at some place, it ( I feel) would have been better to do just that. If not that then please change back to the old system for awarding faction points. My thought proses in the matter was that in arena where one side receives an advantage there are already few people from the other side who will still fight. With the new reduction in points to the loosing side I fear that even fewer people will participate. Then the overall there will be far far fewer points awarded. I am sure that you, the game team, have your own people that will look into this matter. I just felt that it was important to hear player input into all matters. This is primarily in response to Alliance battle however the reduction to faction points may discourage players accross the board from playing. I thank the reader for there time and would applicate and welcome an email in response and comments at my email; psf3077@gmail.com. I ask again to change back to the old system or better yet to give more faction to the loosing team. Again tank you for reading and all the great work put into the game.

Hypothetical Question..
What would happen if the Kurzicks took Cavalon or the Luxons took The House? Would the war end? Would nothing at all happen? it seems the point of having a war with a definite front line is to push the others off the map...so if one team was completly pushed of the map, would ABing as we know it end, ANET reset the faction ranks, or would life go on as normal until on team recovered their base? I've always been curious about this....--Old Man Of Ascalon   (T/C) 19:02, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * If I'm not mistaken, there is a limit to how far the line can go in either direction. VegaObscura 14:43, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
 * While HZH and Cavalon can be taken, there are other outposts that never switch hands. -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 22:08, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Total Win
What happens when one side kills everyone of the opponents team? Does the match end, like in other PvP? Has anyone ever seen this? I can't imagine this happening, but it would be cool... Dragnmn 11:42, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * They'd resurrect... why would it change anything? --Kale Ironfist 19:31, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Interesting Glitch
If you die and have that resurrection timer on your screen when your side loses, you will still resurrect as normal and have 20 sces before everyone is sent back to the staging area, I killed a verrry suprised elementalist heh heh Luxons FTW!! Cardsharp 08:16, 16 June 2007 (CDT)Cardsharp

What determines the map change?
Does anyone know what determines the change in map? Is there a certain overall point score that one side has to reach, and whoever reaches it first, gets the map changed in their favour?

June 20, 2007
 * IIRC, every 3 hours, the game checks to see which side won more alliance battles. When it shifts, it shifts against the side winning too much. --Kale Ironfist 20:55, 20 June 2007 (CDT)


 * From back when the Kurzicks exploited that glitch that made them run over the Luxons, my brother thinks that theres "momentum", where as a side wins more they gain "momentum". Momentum is actually what moves it, and so when the Luxons were winning almost every game at Kaanai, it still wasn't moving, because it was working against the Kurzick's momentum. After the imbalance was finally fixed, it still took a while to get out of Kaanai because it has some value that the momentum adds on to that they need to defeat. However, when the Luxons got the huge momentum and finally moved again, regardless of whether or not they were winning, they were destined to hit Ancestral. So uhh... there's his theory lol --Gimmethegepgun 21:12, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * There's a momentum bonus which ArenaNet added in. There's no way to quantify it though. --Kale Ironfist 21:25, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Is it games or points? That could be a real possibility, i.e. if the Luxons won 500-10 (exaggerated) 10 times, but the Kurzicks won 500-499 (again, exaggerated) 100 times, then Kurzicks would have won far more battles while Luxons would have gained far more points... Points would obviously be the "fair" way... so wouldn't ANet have considered that? -- Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] --  (contribs) 18:37, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That was probably part of his theory, yes. It would make perfect sense to have it that way. The situation I was referring to (when Kurzicks went onto Luxon side and EoE'd themselves to death and stopped gates from opening), once they finally fixed the glitch it was still stuck on Kaanai for a day or 2, and Luxons were winning by a lot most of the time --Gimmethegepgun 19:34, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Underdog Bonus
I can't understand the "Underdog Bonus." Can anyone specify this with an example or such? Do you need to win to get the bonus? --Dark Paladin X 05:55, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No, you don't need to win to gain the underdog bonus. You only need to be ABing on a map that favours the opposing side. The bonus just gives more points to you for staying on your side and encouraging you to AB with the odds stacked against you. You will get even more faction/reward for winning but you do still have the bonus for losing plus your normally acquired points. In short, even if you do lose, it's possible to gain enough points with the underdog bonus to count as a win on a map that you do not have the underdog bonus. This probably fits in well with what AB was trying to accomplish. PlacidBlueAlien 18:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Kind Lil Me
I'm adding a list on contested locations so everyone will stop freaking out about getting HzH owned by the Luxons or w/e. The Imperialist


 * Zos Shivos and Amatz Basin are not contested location. If you can prove these towns can fall under opposing faction's control, upload a map of the faction border where Zos Shivos Channel is under Kurzick control, or Amatz Basin under Luxon control. Dark Luke 22:53, 1 August 2007 (CDT) [[Image:Kurzick6towns.png|thumb|And don't just photoshop this one, erasing the Amatz border fragment and calling it the proof]]


 * I'll take your word for it, since I'm using my Prima Guide as reference...
 * Prima guide bad, a number of things have been determined incorrect in these guides so watch out. -- Xeon 23:02, 1 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Well this has one of the more indepth things for contested territory, so I'm using it. :P The Imperialist

Base Capping
Saw this just now. A group consisting of three Monk/Assassins and one Warrior/Ranger actually got into the Luxon base in the Ancestral Lands. The Warrior used Fertile Season, Symbiosis (w/ monks using recall on him), and Defy Pain to get his health above 999 so the base defender didn't kill him. The monks then recalled into the base. It was pretty neat. With enough people, we killed them easy, but it was still a clever idea. Prepare the nerf bat ANet.

Thier names were: Base Capping I, Base Capping II, Base Capping III, and Base Capping IV.

P.S.: I know nothing about Wikicode, so that's why this may look odd. ~Ranger
 * That's always been available, but the effort to do so is just not worth it. You're better off spending time to cap the shrines than to kill resurrecting foes. Especially when the resurrected for could get within earshot of the base defender and kill every single one of them. --Kale Ironfist 17:51, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

I've seen something quite amazing in an AB, don't know if it's a glitch or what. It was a team of three monks and an assassin (Luxon team), guild THCE. They were running a build they called "auraway" and somehow managed to (this is at Grenz frontier btw) infiltrate the kurzick base (bypass the kurzick base defender) and camp at the default kurzick resurrection shrine, killing everything that popped up. Anyone know how they did it? o.0 24.4.172.128 00:21, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Ah, heck. Someone got it before me. 24.4.172.128 00:43, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

(nearly)Impossible. It's impossible to shadow step in the base and also you can't "teleport" (as you can't Comsume or NT without a corpse) in there as well. Shadowstepping fails as the base defender has invulerability to all skills, spells and enchantment spells hostile or not. Also if you used Unyielding Aura,(sounds like why "they" called it "auraway") it'll likely wand you once or twice (which last time it hit me, did around 300 damage) then use base defense. If it is, in fact still possible after someone reported it via glitch, it's no surprise luxons did it. > > Besides, I'm postive that the BD is within earshot of the res zone. Great way to keep dying even if the monks keep rezing the sin out of the BD range. Also, it wouldn't reset his counter and after 3-4 rezs. he'll shoot all the way back to main base or rez shinres. Just off the top of my head, it may be possible if you get a kurzick griefer to sac and kill himself and use consume corpse while everyone else has recall on you. And vice versa. Which be much better... Flechette 01:01, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You're misunderstanding the process. ONE character is set up to withstand a Base Defense or two. They run in and get out of range of the Base Defender. The others release their maintained Recall and shadow step into the fort. They now have full access into griefing. ANet pre-empted that though, as you are invulnerable for a few seconds after resurrecting. This gives enough time to get to the Base Defender and out of the fort. If the griefers follow, they die to Base Defense, since they usually don't have the time to prep up again. If they don't follow, they're wasting time in the fort since they're not killing anybody. This is, of course, assuming that the resurrected people actually get the hell out of there, before the nuking comes in and they get caught in it. --Kale Ironfist 01:09, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

yet another bug?
just now there was a very close match both scores went up at the same time even yet at the end kurz won with 500 points yet the luxons had 501 WTF those robbersthis happend to anyone else Dstroyer 666 09:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

minion masters too good at ab?
I have seen many battles where the side witch has minion master or masters won almost always against the side witch has none. Thats why I think that minion masters should not be able to summon the minions from npc's or they should summon a smaller number of minions at ab. --Ginsteri 12:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Minion masters aren't really a problem; the problem is people thinking they're a problem. If each minion counted as a pip on the cap bar, it would be terrible. As things are, people just don't bring disenchants to kill off the cookie cutter N/D with Aura and Mystic, so they just have eight or nine people attack the mm to eventually overwhelm him. While those not-particularly-intelligent players are wasting their time on a single opponent, the rest of the opposing team caps the shrines and wins. To sum it up, bring Gaze of Contempt and don't mob. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 12:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Minion masters exploit the player's tendency to mob. Beginners will usually attempt to take out the minions instead of the Necromancer, and while MM builds often have incredible defense/regeneration, they are not unstoppable. MMs can simply be avoided (especially as teams should be avoiding combat rather than actively seeking it), and nukers make mincemeat out of minions -- most cap teams can annihilate MMs. The strengths of the MM come from the lack of initiative from other players rather than any imbalance. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  12:36, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If you've nothing to strip the enchantments of the MM (esp. Aura and M. Regeneration) then attacking the minions is often the only way to get to the MM. But I agree, it's a waste of time unless it's no N/D minion master... N/Mo can easily be killed by any damage dealer directly --Birchwooda Treehug 12:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Article Changes
I created this section just to focus on possible article changes and reasons why they are changed. After a quick glance at the "Forming a party" section, I realized that people have begun to list strategies on how they think their side can win. Not only do I have problems with some of the suggested strategies, it just doesn't belong in the main article because of the nature of it. Furthermore, it's just conflicting, badly worded, and needs some cleaning up. I'm pushing that section back to the talk page for now.

Party members
For players who really want to win (like Faction Farmers), their builds should be able to:
 * 1) Hold mobs to win some time for the team.
 * 2) Capture shrines solo, so bigger players wouldn´t have to rush into one shrine instead of fighting in the mobs and capturing other shrines.
 * The player doesn't have to do both of these to be a good player.
 * The whole party can't always move together, so the party formation isn't so important.

I'm not sure who contributed to the above section though. PlacidBlueAlien 18:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Out of gate/teleporter before start
Yesterday, or the day before, I saw two Kurzicks running over the map capturing shires while the counter was at 00:30. So they somehow managed to leave their start points. Is that a new bug/exploit? --Birchwooda Treehug 12:20, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

=The Shocking State of Ab= I and many others who maintain faction for our FF guilds are quite sick and tired of the pathetic mess that is ab - seeing that these days u win 1 out of 10 matches and usually the other luxons are quite rubbish. Ab is about capping the shrines and holding off the opposition but most nubs that enter ab just seem to think it is a kill fest. I have even taken note of some builds that people have been running and i am quite appaled at what they are. These are builds that would get u laughed out of HA and that wouldnt even work for pve (steady stance assassin with no dagger skills anyone??) or are farming builds (130hp derv, 55 monk, A/E green farmer to name a few). Back when ab used to be good my guild was one of the top and AB was clasified the alternative to HA. Now ab is more like a slightly more organised RA. This is to ANET - fix ab or u wont just have older players boycotting ab - u will loose valuble players from the game. With ab the only real PvP alot of people can do (need rank for ha - but need ha for rank... see the prob?) it is realy dishearting that ab is just not worth even participating anymore... No Sig - Anonymous