Talk:Peace and Harmony

Note that spells that must target the caster or all party members will end Peace and Harmony prematurely.

?? so will heal party end it? Peace_a I wrote that, didn't I? Try it yourself. --Kenthar 03:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Do life stealing or health degeneration hexes end Peace and Harmony? Forget about it. Most of them are "spells that target a foe". -- 19:32, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Since it ends on "spells", wouldn't it be good to use it on a Ranger or energy-based Warrior too? --theeth 19:49, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Won't work well. The "deals damage to a foe" part f*cks it up. The only way to harm a foe without ending P&H it is non-spell skills that do not cause damage. Vampiric Touch springs to mind as one example. Or transfer a condition with Plague Signet or Plague Touch. -- 20:21, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * There's a few other weirdos like what Tetris L was mentioning. Chillblains, minions, degen wells.  So possibly but hard.  Maybe there's a Mo/Ne or Ne/Mo combo in there somewhere. -JoDiamonds 21:27, 3 March 2006 (CST)


 * Possibly a duo (or quadro), both spamming Vamp Touch and Barbed signet? Of course, one can also lay down traps and such now, so maybe 2 N/R and 2 N/Mo... --Bishop 22:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Nice, my favourite Monk elite has just become even better! :D --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 02:07, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * Lol, this was your favorite? Well, it FINALLY might be worth using, if you provide it for numerous monks.  I can see how it'd be handy with enough monks on a team, as it grants a pip to each, and can be maintained now on many.  With a +20% enchanting staff, 15 divine favour and Blessed Aura running you could get 144 second P&H, which would allow you to maintain it on 8 monks.  On a 3 monk backline you could thus spend a mere tenth of a pip to give 2 other monks a pip each, and get a free blessed aura for yourself in the bargain. That's not a bad investment, but I don't think it's anything to write home about.--Epinephrine 03:17, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, indeed, my favourite. :) I may not play the most effective monk this way, but just casting P&H on myself and spamming orison and dwayna's kiss usually gets me quite a long way, without running out of energy. Now I can even use Heal Party and Aegis without losing P&H! Bliss! :) --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 03:43, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Capture bug?
It would appear that since the March second update (or shortly after) the capturing of this skill is either bugged or the location changed. I recently went to Marnta only to find that the Peace and Harmony skill was not able to be captured from her: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/accadacca84/guildwars/gw681.jpg

I figured that since the Wiki specifically says that she is the boss you obtain the skill from, that this would be worth noting on discussion until it is resolved. A bug report was sent in not long after I discovered this issue and attempted to capture the skill numerous times to no avail, by leaving and re-entering the area and defeating her repeatedly.

My apologies, but I could not find out after breifly searching how to make a clickable link. I hope this is no trouble. --Acca
 * Looks like Monk elites got screwed up with this update. See Talk:Marnta Doomspeaker for all the info I know about it.  --Rainith 12:41, 4 March 2006 (CST)
 * There was an update when I logged into the game, so I went to check on Peace and Harmony and successfully captured it. --Acca 06:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

ok seriously......even at 3 (THREE) inspiration magic MoR gives you more energy then this one at 16 divine... It might be some good in a 3-monk backline, but still, once someone on the opposing team calls out   "**** is using Peace and Harmony" it will be drained every time you use it (drain enchantment needs a little more then 3 inspiration magic, but will generally still provide more energy then PaH lol). Suddenly, your enemies are the ones gaining energy from YOUR elite. What I mean to say is that this skill sucks arse, and nothing less. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.84.52.71 (talk &bull; contribs) 14:46, 10 August 2006 (CDT).
 * you don't like it, fine. all skills are optional. insulting people is not apprecated. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:06, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I've found this skill to be less than useful myself, even going as far as saying it's possibly the worst in the game for PvP. If anything, it may have its uses in small battles like HA (Heroes' Ascent) where a bonder is feasible (most 8x8 battles I've been in have at least one dedicated mesmer or something like an order of apostacy necro or Ritual Lord with Disenchant).  Personally, I probably would stray away from it in HA, too, because I've had better luck with prot/smite there (and any boost to damage helps in those small groups).  My last bond group went down in about 25 seconds to a highly ranked Korean guild (like #6), so I don't know if it was the bonding, or the competition.

seriously, WTF?
What is this crap about PaH making boon monking possible with 4 pips? This has obviously been written by someone who knows SHIT about energy management. I know it gives you a 4th pip, but if the writer had known anything about energy management he/she would've known that the energy from MoR, ED and OoB goes far beyond that. I think it should be made clear that Peace and Harmony is INFERIOR to MoR, ED and OoB. Inferior, and nothing less. I pointed this out in a very polite way by adding something to the last note (everything from "it's drawback is...") Also, why does the table show the energy per second "when constantly maintained on yourself"? that is the worst way to use PaH (exept casting it on an elementalist perhaps) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thomas (talk &bull; contribs) 16:02, 11 August 2006  (CDT).
 * wow, bitter much? check out Energy management guide --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:04, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Whatever, but shouldn't the 'maintained constantly on yourself' be replaced with 'maintaned constantly on as many people as possible', along with a 'maintained constantly on as many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod' and a 'maintaned constantly on an many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod and Blessed Aura active'? after all, that is the only good way to use it. -Thomas 14:16, 24 August 2006 (CDT)
 * You forgot the key word: Maintained on as many people who dont cause damage to enemy! Effectively reducing its usage to monks, ritualists and possibly trappers. Amilo Robin  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 17:09, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I added it, it was deleted - . I have to admit, it wasn't that good. Bold numbers in the progression table for the breaking point for "maintaining on another ally" could be a better solution. --Nemren 14:26, 24 August 2006 (CDT)

I mean something more like this:

Divine Favor blah blah Duration blah blah

Energy Gain per second 0.17 0.19  0.20  0.21  0.23  0.48  0.49  0.50  0.51  0.52  0.53  0.79  0.81 0.82,  0.83  0.83  0.84 0.85

Additional tables could be made for maintaining it with Blessed Aura and/or a 20% enchant mod The energy gain is when maintained constantly on as many people as possible, because we all know that is the only good way to use Peace and Harmony. If you maintain it constantly on yourself you're better of with almost any non-elite energy management skill. xD This would at least make this skill look like somehting else than complete and utter crap. Though I doubt if that is a good thing, since IMO it IS complete and utter crap, but that's imo -Thomas 16:05, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

You forget something though. Peace and harmony's usage becomes incredibly effective if the monk is having energy management problems in the firts place. Using Boon, you can now regenerate to 5 energy far faster than with other forms of energy management, which only activate once every twenty seconds or so. With Peace and harmony, you can recase every 4 seconds if your energy is at 0, which is, by the by, ALSO where boon becomes most effective, because the efficiency is increased since you don't lose the extra 2 energy. With other energy management, you'll have to cast every five seconds. Peace and harmony just has the edge when the monk is under extreme pressure. Besides, it allows you to put more points into divine and protection, making things like CoP and Signet of Devotion work more effectively as well.

I removed all the boon notes.... &mdash; Skuld 13:32, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

No that's not where it becomes incredibly effective. That's where it becomes totally inferior to MoR, Edrain and OoB -Thomas 03:02, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Have you considered using it on an allied monk, and then they have 5 pips, and can use their OWN energy management for even more energy? you don't even have to be a monk primary to use this on an allied monk when he's under pressure. --Terrifi Cani 14:21, 1 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Wouldn't Succor have the same result but be infinitely better in that situation, especially because an elite wouldn't be wasted? --Insidious420 11:26, 6 February 2007 (CST)


 * With Succor you would have -1energy regen, and on top of that every time the allied monk uses a spell you'd lose energy. Therefore unless you're an all-signet/adrenal Warrior or Paragon it would be a very bad idea. RossMM 18:41, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Energy Cost & Gain Over Time
Let me be the first to point out the difference between energy cost of MoR and P&H. So you said at 3 Inspiration Magic vs 15 Divine Favor, MoR would be better? Lets look at the energy gain, both spanning 20 seconds. With 3 Inspiration Magic, you would gain 16 energy after 20 seconds, but it takes 10 energy to cast it, so the gain is 6 energy. P&H's duration spans across 4 1/2 times the amount of MoR, so lets round that up to 2 energy every 20 seconds, just to give MoR an advantage. P&H gives you 10 energy over 20 seconds, at the cost of 2 energy, so the gain is 8 energy. If you were to give MoR the usual amount of attribute points, it would indeed give you more energy, but your healing abilities would drop considerably. P&H's biggest advantage is it's attribute, Divine Favor, an attribute that just about all monks already have a large amount of attribute points in. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

So what does all this mean? Peace and Harmony is not as good as Mantra of Recall, unless the user is a monk.


 * A pip of energy is one energy every three seconds, not every two seconds. Using the same arbitrary time span for both doesn't simplify analysis, it only obscures it.  At 15 divine with a +20% wrapping, you get 108s of P&H, netting you 31 e, or 0.287 e/s.  This is a little less than a pip of energy regen (as one would expect) since there's the overhead of casting P&H.  MoR at 3 inspiration gives you 16 e, netting you 6 e.  You can use MoR every 21s normally, meaning 0.286 e/s.  Take away the enchantment wrapping or go to 16 DF instead and P&H loses to 3 inspiration MoR.  Invest just one more rank into inspiration and you get 1/3 e/s from MoR, the same as one pip of energy regen, and P&H is eclipsed completely.  --Fyren 06:42, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

One energy every three seconds? Well there went my argument =\ I'll check this out and make sure. If its true, then yes MoR would be better than P&H. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * MoR has now been nerfed a bit, and now my old argument applies again. Now the gain from MoR is 3 energy at 3 inspiration magic.  VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)


 * A bit. I use MoR with 10 insp magic, and it works fine (I only use this for boon protting, as boon healing is silly and a waste of energy). -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 12:06, 7 December 2006 (CST)


 * Lets not forget one important fact, when a fight starts getting ugly seconds count to a monk, sometimes even a half second cast time is too long when your trying to save a target. MoR needs to be reapplied every twenty seconds (or so depending on your enchanting) where as you can run PaH for a MUCH longer time befoer taking time out of healing your allies to recast it. Add to the fact that you can recast PaH and reset its duration at your convience (like say a breif lul) unlike MoR which MUST run out before you can benift from it andd PaH becomes far more versitile in long term engagments.


 * Yes, its less energy gain than a 10 point MoR but the ability to run a boon prot at 16 13 makes up for it greatly in a pinch as all your spells get more effective. Finnaly when running on empty the -2 energy from divine boon wont set you negetive, having the fourth pip back means you can cast more often for less energy since you get to partialy ignore the -2 per cast, where as a MoR boost will fill you back up and you'll start burning that -2 again.


 * Ive been using PaH over MoR in Zos shivros challenge lately and the preformace differnce is VERY notable, even before i start sharaing the wealth and running it on other casters. Like all elite skills it only sucks if you havent found the niche its meant for.--TypoNinja 16:02, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Peace and Succor
A full set of Radiant armor and three peices of Attunement (other two for vigor and attribute) and a Staff of the Forgotten nets you 64 energy. When using this (or having a hero monk use it) plus an adrenal warrior hero maintaining Succor will provide 6 energy regeneration or 6 energy every 3 seconds. I have found this to be very effective. Sure on paper and by itself it looks stupid, but so do other skills.
 * Or Channeling. Or just use an elite slot for Blood is Power. Or prehaps just manage your energy better ;) &mdash; Skuld 12:32, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * In PvE, that kind of Energy maintenance is overkill. ~Soja 8:21 CST 7 December 2006
 * Not neccesarily. There are plenty of higher-level areas in all three games where energy management is critical for a monk to heal properly. Just play in the realm of torment for a while and you'll understand. Jrista 13:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)