GuildWiki talk:Fansite status

Initial efforts
I've just made this page so that we can have a look at how we are doing and attempt to discuss how we are doing on each point :) LordBiro/Talk 08:09, 7 Jun 2005 (EST)

i agree with you that the wiki system works almost exactly like or better than web forums, but we might have to contact the person in charge and inquire about it first. Nuble 01:16, 12 Jun 2005 (EST)

I'm hoping to at least crank out a temp logo today, just to get it done. The guy I have working a real one has been swamped with work (I should know- he works in the cubicle next to me) so it'll be a bit.

I think we should work more on the How to Help sections and templates, and perhaps create a "How to add an Item in 5 minutes" guide like the Skill guide. Anyone, once the logo is done, I'll be submitting to the GW Fansite person. Also, here's the GuildWiki_talk:Domain_Name page. Gravewit

Well, as long as we all get to decide on the logo. I started a page for that as well, Logo, so once he's done then he can upload the logo there.

I think we're ready to apply for fansite status. We already have more than many other fansites do, and the publicity would help. Tanaric 15:50, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

I agree Tanaric. I posted the other day on the Main Page discussion that I think we should make a start on the Fansite Status/Official Status Letter. 21:47, 18 Jun 2005 (EST)

Current Status
Still no reply from NCSoft peoples. Letter was sent about a week ago. Gravewit 02:28, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * Ah right, that sucks :/ Well, we should perhaps give them some more time, then maybe pester them some more. 03:07, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * i say we pester them more first, and THEN we give them some time. :P Nuble 04:35, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * Any news yet? --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 02:32, 18 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I'd say I was disappointed, but I missed the initial annoucement that we sent the letter, so... :) In any case, I'd give them another week or so; wait until beginning of September, so we can say "hey, it's been a month, what's goin' on?" &mdash;Tanaric 18:31, 18 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * Almost 1 month now, and counting. :( --Tetris L 19:14, 1 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * /me twiddles thumbs and whistles a tune while waiting ... --Tetris L 22:43, 14 Sep 2005 (EST)

Can I ask a question? Did we send them a "physical letter" or an e-mail and whom did we send it to? --Karlos 06:30, 15 Sep 2005 (EST)

Miffed
Moved from GuildWiki talk:Community Portal Ok, I just got the Pre-Order package (really nice by the way) and at the end of the manual (lots of info to put in), there is a page about the "Guild Wars community" which has a list of GW sites. And, you guessed it, we are not there. The number one resource, barring none, for info on the game is not there. I am ticked off. No, ticked is an understatement. --Karlos 07:24, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Ugh how can they miss us?? This is the biggest GW info site there is! I'd hazard to say we know more about the game than ANet do (well sometimes :p) What sites are listed there? &mdash; Skuld  07:36, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * At a quick glance I thought they just listed the "Elite" fansites and whatnot. Since we aren't one of those I'm not surprised we weren't listed.  Gaile did say that she loves the site last night when I was talking to her (that may have just been PR talk though).  --Rainith 07:41, 11 March 2006 (CST)


 * Well, it's not Elite sites only. In fact, on the DC they list elite sites and some non-elite sites. On the manual it's the same thing. In addiiton, their lousy elite sites list has been the same now for nearly 8 months. I don't think they take their fansite program as seriously as we do.
 * Sites in the manual:
 * France guild Wars (French)
 * Guild Wars Guru
 * GW Online
 * Photics
 * The Guild Hall
 * Wartower.de (German)
 * Crossing Tyria
 * Guild Wars Info (German)
 * Guild Wars MMORPGS (French)
 * Knights Templar
 * Mondes Persistantes (French)
 * RPG Stars
 * The Italian Lair (Italian)
 * Vault - Guld Wars
 * --Karlos 06:26, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Are you participating in this site for the love of documentation, or for recognition by Anet? If the latter, you are truly wasting your time. All the "elite" sites have lots of backchannel connections to Anet as they are filled with alpha testers and whatnot. We are simply outclassed in the networking department. Don't let it get to you. &mdash; Stabber 07:42, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * It's a shame and a sham though. It has not escaped my notice that most of these sites look really cool but have not updated their content in eons. The only thing they do consistently is run press releases and news borrowed from the official site. We do them the best service that any site out there does. The only one that comes close is Guru. The rest are a far second.
 * In terms of letting it get on my nerves. I am ticked off by injustice, whether in a the virtual world of game wikis or the real world. I have much respect for their marketing crew, I think they do a very nice job. This is however the one glaring mistake that keeps coming up. It proves to me that there is a disconnect between the guys in charge and the actual community. they have surrounded themselves with these elites who sing their praises and whom they sing their praises in return and are sealing themselves off from the true beat of their own game's community. Chapter 2 is going to decide a lot of things for me in terms of whether or not they are actually listening and paying attention to what the game players want. We should not be begging for their recognition, we should be honored by them. The fact that we are not does not make our work here any less valuable or satisfactory, but it DOES shed long, dark shadows on how much they appreciate their own fan base and what that fan base does and like. I do find it troubling that they are oblivious to the number one site for their game, yes. --Karlos 08:40, 12 March 2006 (CST)
 * One question - have we been submitting visitor traffic info to Anet? I never saw Nunix (who has been MIA for a while) or Gravit mention it.  That *is* one of the requirements for being recognized Elite status (though admittedly we should at least qualify for Official status). -PanSola 08:46, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Isn't one of the requirements to be Elite or Official that you have to "Update whenever the official site does" or something to that effect? Although they don't come out and say it, I think that means that they want you to parrot the updates that they make to their site.  Since we don't note the wallpapers and screenshots that they release I don't think we make it on that account.  --Rainith 08:53, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * It has not escaped my notice that most of these sites look really cool but have not updated their content in eons. It's true.  It's pretty sad, but true.  Evan The Cursed (Talk) 08:54, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * BTW, on the "parroting press release" note, the requirement is as lax as linking to their press release, and I think we always do that (just not on the main page). Press Releases typically contain new information, the information typically goes in a GuildWiki article (new or existing), and that article typically links to the press release the info comes from. -PanSola 09:08, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * I don't know that it is just the press releases, last time I looked at the elite sites (months ago at this point) they had different updates on their main pages for every update that went on the main page of the official site, be it press release, new screen shot, new guild interview, etc... --Rainith 09:12, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * But is that part of the requirement or is that just the silly little fansites being silly little fansites without enough news to post as it is? Evan The Cursed (Talk) 09:21, 12 March 2006 (CST)

GWonline is on there for heavens sake.. ;p &mdash; Skuld  16:45, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Karlos is right about this. Our admins are very lazy about getting info forwarded to Anet (or at least totally lazy about telling us about it), but even without that it should be very clear to even the new visitor that this site is containing more information than 95% of all other sites out there together. I dont understand why they ignore the site where it is easiest to find information. --Xeeron 20:57, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Maybe -- and this is just speculative conspiracy theory -- they think it's a little too easy to find information on guildwiki... I mean, I don't think there's any doubt that just knowing about this site cuts majorly into the time one needs to accomplish specific things in the game. Maybe there's forces that don't feel it should be that fast, and therefore prefer the more sluggish -- and useless -- fansites that care more about self-promotion than actual factfinding...? --Bishop (rap|con) 21:17, 12 March 2006 (CST)


 * Naw, the faster people finish the game, the less strain they put on the servers. Just so long as people still buy the next chapter and pay them money....  --Rainith 21:19, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Here's my reading of the situation. Anet started out as a small studio and really worked their butts off cultivating a community. The big sites that got involved early -- photics, tgh, gwguru, gwonline, etc. -- and were in many ways key to GW's early success were favored with elite status. But, eventually, Anet got big and ambitious. They suddenly hired a lot more people and began a whole series of projects (I hear chapter 4 is in development now), the biggest of which is their increasing focus on championship tournament leagues. Their marketing and PR departments suddenly had a lot on their hands, and cultivating the community, especially when the community is already addicted to GW, has less precedence than the far more important task (to them) of reaching new markets. I think if you ask gwguru or tgh, they will say that they are no longer fed and entertained by Anet's community relations people as they once were. Hence the stench of stagnation that permeates such sites as gwonline and tgh.

The question we have to answer is -- how are we important to Anet? We don't host a large forum like gwguru or gwonline, nor are we attracting or soliciting community discussion on all aspects of GW. While players may look up information in guildwiki, they do not (with the exception of the regulars here) spend all their time on guildwiki between gaming sessions. Our focus is on (mostly) objective documentation, not subjective navel gazing (though it exists in spades in the talk pages). From the perspective of Anet, we are a glorified "FAQ" site, rather than a community portal. When was the last time we solicited fan-created art, fan-created journals, fan-created platforming games starring Gwen, or anything of that nature? If becomming an "elite" site requires adding all this cruft, then I say let us never become elite.

Incidentally, I think it's meaningless to quibble about arbitrary "requirements" for the elite status. Those requirements were a bunch of bureaucracy cooked up to increase the barrier to entry. Most elite sites became elite before these requirements existed. &mdash; Stabber 02:38, 13 March 2006 (CST)


 * ArenaNet is not recognizing a strong resource that helps promote their signature game. This is true.  Still, I have trouble holding the company on the whole highly accountable.  Yes, if the higher ups were making sure to pay attention to their community, then it would be getting done, but it's not unusual (the unusual thing is when companies really do pay attention).  I'm sure there's quite a few people at Arena Net who are paying attention to GuildWiki... they just probably aren't in positions to change the website or manuals, sadly.
 * This isn't to excuse ArenaNet on the whole, but if you actually talk to someone from ArenaNet, don't take it out on them too harshly.
 * --JoDiamonds 13:15, 13 March 2006 (CST)
 * To me, it doesn't bother me so much that we're not listed as an elite site so much as it bothers me that we're not mentioned at all in the manual. Other non-elites get listed, and will gain traffic from new users who are using the manual as a means of finding resources.
 * On the subject of elite status, a little while ago when the discussion came up about the Photics.com article, I checked out that elite site. I seem to remember someplace in his forums the site creator was describing the process of his gaining elite status; basically, asking many, many, many times for Arenanet to give him elite status.  And they finally did.  So, if elite status is a priority for guildwiki (it's not to me, but some may desire it), to gain elite status I suspect the best route is to ensure we meet all of Arenanet's guidelines, and to be persistent about requesting recognition as such. --Barek 23:37, 13 March 2006 (CST)

On the european preorder CD guildwiki IS listed as a fansite. Kong 06:41, 5 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Don't mind me, I just thought we should put that in big letters. :)  --Rainith 06:47, 5 April 2006 (CDT)
 * np :) ,link to all fansites on EU preorder CD: [] Kong 06:51, 5 April 2006 (CDT)
 * The links in the EU PDF strategy guide are identical to the american version. Kong 07:28, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

Linkage
This page is a total dead end, not linked to in any way. No surprise that the time difference between the last 2 edits is more than half a year. That apart: Do we still want to push for elite status, or can this be buried and we are happy with fansite status? --Xeeron 07:53, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I want to push for at least Official status, and it'd be great if we can get elite status. -PanSola 10:07, 10 April 2006 (CDT)


 * I'll grant that I know next to nothing about this, but I will say what I know after searching for tons of info about Guild Wars on the net and stumbling across GuildWiki... this place easily has the best collection of information that I found after extensive searching. I would love to see this place recognized for that. I've had little cause to look elsewhere for anything. --Rain Over Pebbles 10:15, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

To get the Elite status
We need to update with all guildwars.com news and also all of the press releases. We could do this in the same way as the Game Updates are done. It could also be useful to someone, not just a thing to do to get the elite status. We also need to send them traffic statistics every month. Is this really needed anymore? If it is, can this be done? --Gem  11:28, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I am bumping this to get some responses. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:04, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think trying to get Anet's attention is a fool's game, but don't let me stop you. Be bold. &mdash; Stabber (talk) 04:09, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I am not the one originally behind the idea, but it would be cool to have guildwiki as an elite fansite. However, if there are any reasons why it would be bad, I am eager to hear them; This is not the most importnat thing to me relly. --Gem [[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] 04:32, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, we could give it a try, don't you think? I mean, c&ping the press releases from the official page is not that difficult. I don't have a clue about the traffic stats, an admin should look into that. --Nilles 08:01, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

Before trying for elite status, lets start by trying to move up from "Listed" to "Official" status. According to the fansite article, we're not even up to that level. To be honest, as Elite status requires that we send "regular visitor traffic reports to Anet", I think just focus on hitting the intermediate level first, then aim for Elite status later if we can get Gravewit to provide the site traffic statistics to Anet on a regular basis. --161.88.255.140 16:46, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * So... what should we do that we aren't already doing to shoot for Official Status? -PanSola 16:55, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * From what I can see, the last missing link for official status was "Host or link to a Guild Wars-related forum". Now that we have that, it's just a matter of creating a letter to ArenaNet, and barraging them with a couple hundred copies of the letter (both email and regular mail) until they respond.
 * To move up to Elite status, it appears we need two missing pieces. To "Provide ArenaNet with statistics on fansite traffic on a monthly basis", and to "Update when the official site is updated; carry Guild Wars news as it is posted or, when possible, as it takes place", which we are nearly at now, but some news items on the official site aren't currently making it into GuildWiki.  A new link on the main page titles "Guild Wars News" maintained similarly to the updates should accomplish this one. --161.88.255.140 17:08, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * In that case, I see no reason to not shoot for Elite status directly. Whether they move us up to Official first then Elite, or directly to Elite, is up to them.  -PanSola 17:26, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * Okay. It looks like the news links have just been started by Stabber, and that will eliminate one of the blocks for reaching elite status.  That just leaves statistics on site traffic.  Do any of the Special pages provide that with monthly counts, or will we need Gravewit to collect it?  Once we figure out how to collect it, we can combine it with the letter requesting recognition as elite status, and keep sending it monthly (or more often) until they respond. --161.88.255.140 17:31, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
 * If we seriously continue this news tracking, then we are doing more than any of the elite fansites do. They do not note every news item -- just the more interesting ones. On the other hand, I predict that the staticness of our Main Page will be a disqualifying factor, as these update tracking pages are each 1 click away. It remains to be seen how much my pessimism about our chances for elite or official status will prove to be accurate. &mdash; Stabber 20:18, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

Anyone have suggestions on how we handle the requirement to "provide ArenaNet with statistics on fansite traffic on a monthly basis"? At this stage, barring any complications from the issue identified by Stabber with the blockings on the blog site, I think the final requirement is to provide the site traffic info. Then it's just a matter of sending a few hundred emails and regular mail messages until they respond. --161.88.255.140 12:00, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
 * It shouldn't be hard for gravewit to set up a stats page, but if all else fails we can compare and copy Special:Statistics =) Skuld  12:02, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Possible roadblock to our goal of being official/elite
From Fansite Status: Our front page links to the GameWikis blog. Guess what's prominently on the front page of that blog? That's right, a list of all URLs related to goldfarming and trading in-game stuff for real money.
 * To disallow and remove links or promotion of adult (pornographic) sites, sites that provide or support software hacking or piracy, sites that support, advertise or offer in-game items for real currency, and sites that encourage game cheating

Noted, of course, that this is for the purpose of weeding them out of our google ad keywords, but these should not be so prominently displayed. This seems pretty serious. &mdash; Stabber 08:42, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I think the fact that the sites listed are not actually linked, but just listed, may allow us to skip past a violation on this point. Combined with the context of that blog entry being for the purpose of identifying sites to block, I think we should be okay.  Only time will tell though.  Once we begin supplying statistics information we can draft a letter to send.  Their eventual reply should tell us if this is something to address or not. --161.88.255.140 12:07, 24 April 2006 (CDT)


 * Almost every other elite fansite uses google ads. I can't see why that would be a problem. At least we're trying to do something about it. Gravewit 10:45, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

Is this a go or a no go?
If we are serious about increasing our rank in the fansite tournament, let us draw up some concrete plans. Who among us will be email spiking Anet? &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 14:31, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
 * We could start drafting a letter while we determine how to handle site stats, maybe create a draft in Fansite status/Elite Status Request or someplace comparable. I would recommend having the source of the emails be one of the admins (whichever one we can get signed up for doing it). --161.88.255.140 14:41, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
 * All right, started. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 15:02, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I have an email address for Gaile (probably the same one from the site, I dunno, it was the one she contacted me from for the Backstage Pass event), and I have no problem emailing her our request. At the moment however, I have no real time to draft anything up.  --Rainith 16:12, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
 * I've been emailing once every couple weeks for a long time with stats and so on. Feel free to do so on your own, though. The more the merrier. Gravewit 10:46, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * In that case it is hopeless and I'm back to my initial assessment that trying to get Anet's attention is a fool's game. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 10:56, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
 * We've got a beautiful gold one-line box on the main page. Throw a link to an "email ArenaNet and tell them you love GuildWiki" form in there, and we might get their attention. When they get flooded with a couple hundred distinct emails in a few days, maybe they'll give us another look? &mdash;Tanaric 00:32, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm still kinda miffed re: Factions manual snub; and while I'd usually just, "Meh, whatever," it, I'd really like to see the contributors and community get the recognition it deserves. I'm for it. Grave? --Nunix 06:03, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
 * I seriously doubt the contributors and community deserve anything except to exist. Anet doesn't owe us anything. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 06:05, 2 May 2006 (CDT)