Talk:Destruction's Depths

walkthrough plz ive been stuck here all day.

follow direction its simple even my heroes and I used totally wrong build(burning against destroyer which does nothing) [User:Kullwarrior|Kullwarrior]

Where do u get this quest??
 * From Jalis Ironhammer in the Battledepths. You must first have completed Heart of the Shiverpeaks. After beating it once, you can quickly return to Jalis via the portal to the Battledepths in the Central Transfer Chamber. BftP 20:11, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

I heard there was a bug with this quest? that one cant talk to budger once the quest is complete?Dekboi. 14:19, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Ouch, Disc of Chaos pwns my party everytime.L yra V alo  14:46, 4 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I've done it yesterday, the easiest part was the Disc. I had a friend (war) to tank him, RC prot, SoD prot, HB/Heal Party/GolE to keep him alive, and he never really hurt him... It was just tedious seeing him getting pounded while that disc hardly got scratched by our heroes... Took a few minutes to take him down, and afterwards we aggro'ed each group apart... And then the biggest pushover came, but that's the mission after that ^^' --84.24.206.123 10:16, 5 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Gwen as an interrupt mes = no damage. -68.166.2.3 13:18, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

Once, i'd set my heroes in a good position so I could tank without them taking agro, (i'm a warrior) Mantra of Flame and 2 monks could keep me alive even when I was on 60dp only tough part was when the Disc moved and pulled the party into the Destroyers of Lives because their damage could tip the scale between me staying alive and me dying >.< L yra V alo  14:14, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

just doing this quest and noted that when langmar died all vanguards turned hostile, as if they were her minions.SuicideBunny 10:02, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Finishing the mission the cheap way
A fun build i used while playing this mission turned out to be amazingly powerfull. Well, we had the usual 3 ele, two monks a barrager, a mesmer and an assasin. We got creamed ofcourse at the norn part, but then i realised something. The golems cannot die. I, the assasin, was using a Shadowform running build, Deadly Paradox>Arcane Echo>Shadow Form>Echoed Shadow Form>Shadow Form. About a minute and a half of invulnerability, the only time i was out of it had Feighned Neutrality, Dark Escape and "I Am Unstoppable" along with Death's Charge. If you dident see it by now.. i managed to reenergize the golems, put them on defense and managed to kill close to all the destoryers there, the rest of the party just coming in at the end to clear up. I thought this was just a fluke until we reached the Central Transfer Chamber. The whole party got wiped once again, mostly due to 60DP, and it was just me, my shadow form and the golems. Took me awhile, but i managed to kill evreything there, without dieing. I was lmaoing with my guild-mate on vent all the 10-15 minutes it took me to solo-farm evreything there. Golems rule :P --Cosmitz 13:04, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I went in there with a balanced party and creamed everything with no problem. I think one henchman had 15dp. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png|Chuiu]] 13:10, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

I found an interesting and useful bug during this mission. If a golem set on defensive mode dies with the phase shield up, the shield will not dissappear, and your party can stand next to the golem to become invulnerable. This invulnerability dissappears if the golem is reactivated, but I have now used the trick to beat the disc easily 2 times now. Hope this can help with this (extremely obnoxious) boss. 69.40.244.195 18:13, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

WTF
lol i a war and i can't seem to beat it at all! can someone tell me the skills to own it with (also the henchies and heroes with the skills)?


 * The skills to use are your three Golems. Against the disc at the end, if you set all three to melee and do your best to heal them and re-energize them when they deactivate, you should be ok. If your warrior is below 15 energy because of the DP, can you take a high energy set to get it back above that?


 * I hadn't considered that though - if a low energy Warrior or Paragon gets enough DP to take their energy below 15, how do they get the Golems up and running again? That really does make the mission more difficult!Paulatpingu 07:29, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Solution: Dont die. :) -Kamiawolf 08:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait until you try this in Hard Mode, holy crap this was tough. --Blue.rellik 11:39, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Staff. A good +10energy staff to activate golems, and you're sweet. I kinda had to rely on that myself as it wasn't a good fight, and we got 60dp at that norn bit (althought it was smooth before and after).

Umm, I've tried this twice, with the same team composition: P/W focused support para (me), KD war (my guildie), HB hero monk, BL hero monk, tank-style hero derv, SF ele, MM hero, and P/W motivation para. I took the extra para b/c guildie said that damage mitigation was the way to go. So we got to the last level, with 60 dp =/, killed all but the disk but when we tried to kill him, we literally couldn't make his health fall below 90%, while he one-hit killed our team, any recommendations on a new team composition? (we used the golems on melee)24.176.98.38 03:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)Gabe
 * NEVER, NEVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER use fire or burning against Destroyers Blue.rellik 04:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol SF ele, useless. --Ckal Ktak 13:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, anything else? i think i can replace the SF with air spiker, blinding surge any good here? or just dual attunement?
 * A ele is useless at killing against Destroyers since their best damage skills (fire) does nearly no damage. A ele is best as a support role running utility like wards and blinding flash. Blue.rellik 03:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gogo water ele! --Gimmethegepgun 03:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Water's good for blurred vision and snaring their attack classes, but I find taking a geomancer with ward against melee/elements/weakness to be the best idea, keeps an awful lot of damage off of your team. Sandstorm and Unsteady Ground are good elites to take, there's always your PvE skills for damage (Necrosis, "Finish Him!" are good choices). --Ckal Ktak 20:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I actually just finished the miss using the sab-way necs, it owned. only one hench died once, at the very end. im using those necs all the time now24.176.98.38 20:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)Gabe
 * Sab-Way? what the heck's that? --Ckal Ktak 18:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Look up Triple Necro Vanquish on www.pvxwiki.com --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 18:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh that style, you mean, common-sense-way for necros. --Ckal Ktak 11:31, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yup. Me and Prog ran that along with 2 Rt/N's and everything just died. Off topic natter ftw. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 11:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Heroes and henchmen in hard mode
I finished this quest in hard mode with heroes and henchmen (Me + 3 heroes + 4 henchmen).

I had Razah set as spirit spammer with ritual lord and union/shelter/shadowsong/displacement, Vekk as a dual attunement air spammer with blinding flash, Master of whispers with spiteful spirit. Myself as lod prot monk (Lod, Prot spirit, Reversal, Cure hex etc)

Henchmen were: Lina, Talon, Herta and Zho. The hardest part was when you have to defend and fight off the waves of destroyers. I used a trick here and went away from the central spot and let the destoyers kill the npc. Then i picked them off a few at a time by pulling with a longbow.

The boss was pretty easy even in hard mode. A prot spirit on the golems and let them tank him in melee mode.--85.226.179.85 22:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That actually sounds pretty good, except my title toon would replace Talon. I might have to conscript a guildie, heh. Mesodreth Blackwing 05:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Dunno how much stronger they are in HM, but at least in Normal the boss can easily be pulled separate, and all he can do is spam Flame Burst. And he moves slow. Stone Dwarf tanks well, can set Golems to Ranged or Defense. Other than the mentioned part with the Destroyers, the rest of the quest should be easy with careful aggro control. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is crazy in hard mode, getting to where you fight the waves is easy mind you. After that though, come on lol, talk about taking the fun out of it.  You can pull some of the groups as they arrive but once they all clump they merge and can't be pulled a few at a time, was my observation anyway.  I also found the end to be quite tedious as well, come on Anet, you give us consumables and PvE skills when all we really want is a 7 hero party.  Ended up finally finishing it, 60 DP no less, used BHA epidemic w/ Throw Dirt and volley, MM bomber w/ Aegis and Vekk set as Blinding Surge w /Aegis and no consumables.  Again if you can find some easy way to deal with those waves, the above works superbly.99.235.110.215 03:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * MM? against hordes of level 30 enemies that specialise in multi-target-multi-hit attacks? That's just throwing away a party member. If you're going to take a necro (And you are), then enfeebling blood is your best friend, as always. --Ckal Ktak 22:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * MM bomber. Death Nova on those little Bone Minions die easily, but make big bang :D [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 22:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I said I brought a bomber lol, a straight mm would be useless though as you said.99.235.110.215 16:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Added walkthrough
I've added a walkthrough with a little strategy. i hope it helps. spelling is probebly rubbish and it needs some rephrasing i think... can anyone help me with that please? - Lukyboy 15:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 07:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There aren't three sets of steps at the start of the central transfer chamber. Editing. --Ckal Ktak 23:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

7500 XP?
I just finished all the primaries in hard mode, and the experience obteined in all of them was 7500, not 2500 (Am Bups)
 * Yes, but is only for during the Eye of the North Blow-out Event, returns to 2,500xp at the end of that event. --Wolfie [[Image:Wolfie_sig.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 05:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Pushover
Some people seem to dislike this mission while it is quite easy with this: AND, the special trick:
 * 2 warriors (Talon + Devona is enough!)
 * Support E/Rt (Think Ward against X, splinter weapon)
 * 1 MM to make a wall of flesh for eledestroyers to nuke
 * 2 monks (Mhenlo and prot henchie are fine)
 * You, i played as Glass Arrows/Conjure tripshot R/E
 * Ranger hero with Ebon Dust Aura/Volley/interrupts. I had Pyre with such a build and those nasty Destroyers of Flesh/Sinew/Hordes couldn't do their DPS! In the Central Transfer Chamber I had 2 groups+Big diskthing at the same time and it worked perfectly! Should i post build somewhere here? 195.241.221.246 13:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You could post the build on PvXwiki and then put the link here. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 14:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * [] if you want it. MRD on the official wiki. 86.146.127.164 10:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

note
Regarding the note "Note: it seems that once you engage the Disc of Chaos, all remaining Destroyers will converge on the Disc and aggro onto your party.", so I don't break 1rv, that is not true. I did this yesterday, and we had only killed one group, and when we aggroed the disc the other groups did not aggro. --Shadowcrest 23:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done this mission about 20 times and if I don't kill all the groups on the ground level before I aggro the disk, they do rush me. However since I've done this so many times, I've learned to avoid them, so if it's not true anymore, I wouldn't know. If you're certain they don't do it anymore then remove it. --Macros 20:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * They only rush after I rush into the middle area (around the hench area). But I usually aggro him to the stairs (let the golems tank, and Pain Invert away... ) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:53, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * They certainly don't attack if you aggro solely the Disc, aslong as you pull him to the stairs.

Acquiring Quest (HM)
I have done all quests in HM book except this one and last one. I don't have this quest in scrying pool. Jalis in Battledepths has nothing for me. Prerequisite is Heart Of Shiverpeaks. I can't acquire HoS because it's not one available in book, other than as a sub-quest in Against The Destroyers. So do I have to re-do all of Against The Destroyers? And if so how do I acquire that one? Arrrrrrrg! --Doodle01 07:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

changes
Theyve changed this mission with the 29/2/08 update - theyve made it a lot harder even in normal mode - & before anybody starts saying that I talking crap. ive done with mission bymyself+heroes+hench with ALL my chars. This is the first time mywho team have been wiped at least 5 times & usually I (we +heroes & Hench) get team wiped once but on the rare occasion but. the first part of the mission is still the same but near the end of the mission as your approaching the portal for the central transfer chamber (I cant pinpoint the area itself but its close to the end) I think its stage 3 when you spawn in again & have to reativate the golums. theres a group of dryders which spawn close to you & run off to fight a rather huge group of Hordes which I have never seen in that mission before. I thought id taken the hardway round but that wasnt it - Anet added more hordes there & my team got wipped due to 124hp+ damage from multiple barragers. anyway - there were a few more occasions where the team got wiped because ore or less the same reasons. other then that I think they improved the Destroyers Ai a little. even when clearing the transfer chamber it was a nightmare with the team suffering another wipe.

My team as follows...

Olias - SS Livia (that necro from Eotn) - N/Rt healer (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Rt_Lostsoul_Hero_Healer) Koss - Cleave wammo 2xwarrior hench 1x Necro blood hench 1x Ele fire hench

&

Me = monk running a modified LoD build fore more healing which has worked well for most of my missions

if anyone can confirm that would be cool

82.35.7.62 21:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I also believe that it is harder now than the first times when I did it. Yves 10:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Rant
Just to add some rant on this mission, I fail to see the interest of normal missions (which have to be done to finish the main quest) with this kind of difficulty. Here, we are overwhlemed by a horde of destroyers. Beyond using tricks to soften up the hard fight (norns), such as blocking ways with the golem or pulling out a very specific build, there is hardly any tactics or strategy to be used here. Just survive the waves... or take up hours pulling from the huge aggro. If for some reason you're a bit in a hurry you're out of luck and will most probably finish at -60%. Note that I don't exactly mind about this mission as such (I have done it without dying and also with -60% ; there is little in-between) ; I don't like it because I am forced to play an "elite" fight during the course of the "normal" game. And you can play the same build and get out unscathed or at -60%.

I understand that Anet has to dimension such fights both for eight experimented people and also the occasionnal, not that experimented solo player. Both of these kind of players are looking for different experiences, and even when the solo player is experimented, the difference in power between a group of eight players and a solo player is clear. The problem is that Anet doesn't even give a solo player even a chance to approach the power of a full player group (although Anet recongnize that such player are a core part of their bizness... try to understand!) ; doing so would entail some changes: This would at least put heroes on par with players (as far as raw power is concerned ; I'm not speaking about actual game skill).
 * full hero party
 * special PvE skills available to heroes

So, being a (experimented) solo player, I just fail to see the fun in a mission (compulsory) where I know that except for sheer luck, I'll end up at -60% (I'm not even speaking HM), just because my family life doesn't let me two hours of continuous game time for pulling safely...

The fight here is harder than in the last mission, which in my opinion points to a scenario flaw. It is on par with so called elite (aka broken) areas ; the difference is that you do not have to play these whereas this mission has to be done (that is, if you want to complete the story)... Yves 10:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Take less Fire Magic, and dont take Vamp Gaze on your monk. This is cake on Normal mode... Yes the Great Burning Chicken is a pushover, but who cares really... I mean, Abaddon was a major letdown, dang. At least this one got a buff, so you need PS or you'll burn by ~700 damage (caster being). Back to topic; Wards help a bunch (no KD is no Crushing blow is no DW, 100 damage saved. 50% block ftw anyhow), and Shielding Hands is really awesome agains the Warriors. Dont use hexes, cause Hex Eater Vortex can hurt a bunch. Smiting Prayers do a miraculous lot, cause they ignore armor, making for easier kills. And if all else fails, take as many physicals as you can and use OotV for some leet Life Steal package ramming. Oh, and if that doesnt help, hop over to Rata Sum for an Essence of Celery (typo intended). --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 12:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * lol! I'm not that stupid as to take fire magic against destroyers :( I have NO fire magic. Obviously, that's one of the thing I'd call a strategical error... and I don't do a lot of the things you say (I also don't use wards, which may be a mistake). I rely a lot on sacred damage these latest days, but it doesn't help a lot. OR yes, it does, but it still ends up at -60% 66% of the time


 * And no, I don't want to use consumables. I hate consumables. My opinion is that consumables are for either HM (relieving that -45% in case of a wipe and back home), or elite (aka undoable) areas. If people have to use a consumable in a normal mission area, then that area is broken.


 * Actually, I'm not stuck in that mission ; just frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to pass the Norn area without ending up at -60%. Still, even at -60% I can pull each critter and pass that point ; finishing the mission at -60% is easy, but it simply is not fun to get to -60%. The point is : why did Anet make such a mission ?

Yves 17:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * They made a semi-challenging area to filter nubcakes. Ive passed every normal area with, at most, 30 on one hench, and the rest dangling between 10 and 20. Ok, sometimes it's harder than usual, and people die. /resign and /retry. After making minor alterations to the builds. And thats the part a common PvEer forgets.
 * I too hate consumables from time to time. Everything (yes even Elite areas) are doable without using any consuamble, at all. How else did people make it through DoA, FoW, UW, Urgoz and Deep prior to EotN? Trinity crap, yes, but that always took hours and hours. High end, balanced PvE guilds made it through without using dedicated tanks. Tanks basically only function until you get to the point just 1 enemy slips through. The builds are not made to have the backline sustain a hit or 2, so they crumble fast. Youre better off making the whole party a tank that deals damage. Be it in a split second, or over time.
 * As for this particular area, SoD is winrar. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 17:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Daze and the Destroyer, the Ranger way
The disc of chaos is quite easy with Broad Head Arrow, as the disc of chaos is Boss-like and so does NOT have the condition duration reduction. A single ranger can keep him permanently shut down, allowing the rest of the party to simply whack away. This can save a party in the case of accidental aggro, as the ranger can keep the disc shut down while the party takes care of the mobs (though you may want to let the golems whack the disc as well to help with interrupting). Given that the path too the disc has destoyers of life/hope/thoughts, it isn't a complete waste for someone to bring this.

Furthermore, with Stout Hearted, spamming needling shot && or rapid fire does a surprising amount of damage, provided that you are a decent rank in deldrimor. This is because stout hearted will essentially double the damage of needling shot/make normal attacks actually damage him, rendering your attacks on a dazed foe even better. Needling is particularly good against the Disc, as his high level means that normal attacks without stout hearted are paltry at best. Needling does set damage regardless of armor and levels, I believe. For getting to the Disc though, I would recommend needling over rapid fire, so that you can use a far more useful preparation.

If using broad head, be aware that using pain inversion is a complete waste, as he won't be getting spells off. This means that killing him is slower, but far, far safer.

Just some thoughts 151.199.174.162 17:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What's all the fuss about the Disc... Set the Golems to Melee-Melee-Defensive and you can solo it (I've done that twice now...) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  18:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * the disc itself is the easy part, often with high Dp I just protective spirit on myself and can take him that way. D/R poison/deep wound and bleeding and occasionally disease from radiation field. 118.92.169.45 22:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Level 3
I don't know how others usually do this, but here is my strategy:

When you reach the Central Transfer Chamber, set all the Golems to Defensive mode. Go down the stairs to the left or right and take out the first group of Destroyers. If you can, try to get the Warrior Stone Dwarf killed; he is a nuisance for the next part. Once the Destroyers are dead, flag your H/H back a ways, and then aggro the next group of Destroyers with a Longbow/Flatbow, or stand just inside their aggro range. The melee Destroyer will come up and your party can pummel it. You then go stand in casting range of the Destroyer of Lives, and let it attack you - the Golems will kill it using Vitality Transfer which has unlimited range. Eventually you will be left with only Destroyer of Thoughts and/or Destroyer of Hope. Neither of these deal any real damage, so waiting for Vitality Transfer may be tedious - therefore, if you advance a bit you can usually get the Ranger Stone Dwarf to kill these foes solo. All this is done without aggroing the Disc of Chaos. (Obviously it goes a lot faster if you already have a Ranger on your team. Golems in Ranged mode are not recommended because they tend to move too far ahead and aggro the Disc.) Then you go and repeat for the other side of the room.

Now you should have just the Disc plus the one group of Destroyers at the other end of the room. If you already have melee characters in the party, then I'd only set one Golem to Melee, but if not you should set two. Leave the other(s) to Defense in case you make a mistake. In my personal experience, the other Destroyers will not rush you if you aggro the Disc from the top of the stairs - by that I mean the place where the Golems start out, as is already in the article. That is the safest way. But you can also aggro the Disc from further down; if you do this and then run away, you can draw out the other Destroyer group and then pull them from there and kill them with similar strategy as above. Usually I go top stairs just because you're guaranteed to be able to body block/tank that way.

(T/C) 20:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What I usually do is something like this: Kill the 2 rightmost groups. 2 leftmost groups. Pulling can be necessary (sp? I hate that word), depending on ninja skillz. When all goes well there should be a Disc and one group. Just attack the disc, kill the oncoming group and resume killing the disc. 3 Golems on Defensive deal good damage and can heal (but are usually slower than Monks / Rits, thus not healing often). If there's only 1 person in Melee range, he'll only use Mind Blast and Energy Blast, both of which are single target damage and thus rather easy to negate/heal up. Oh, and KDlocking is lolworthy, if what the Disc of Chaos page says is true... Never noticed him getting KD'ed (GDW is awesome mrite?), but might have been to busy spamming 1-5 to care...
 * Conclusion: I don't see what's so hard about him, really. Energy Blast still only deals 260 damage max, and Mind Blast ~400 on AL 60, and with RoF/PS that's easy to heal back up and prevent the next Mind Blast for a large (huge-esque) part. PS reduces it to 55-60 damage (depends on HP) and RoF negates ~50 damage. Yay. Hard >.>" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, he can be knocked down...I was doing Grapple, Counter Blow, Devhammer, Heavy Blow with my Warrior. Pretty funny. It also works on the Great Destroyer. >.> I have seen him use Flame Burst with just one person in melee range, but that was the Warrior Stone Dwarf...
 * My main focus of this post was that I would like to change the Level 3 section, as it is unclear to me / seems to suggest alternate tactics that I do not understand, but I wanted to make sure I was not just confused. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

________________________________________________ |.....................DDDD.....................| |..............................................| |.......DDD.............................DDD....| |..............................................| |.....................Disc.....................| |.......STAIR.......................STAIR......| |..DD......................................DD..| |........STAIR......Golems/you........STAIR....|

That's schematically how the room looks, right (might be a bit off... Been a while already)? The walkthrough tells you to kill the 2 DD groups and the DDD Groups. Then carefull kill the DDDD group so the Disc is alone. Then daze/PI it and have a long tedious fight. That's what I read from the walkthrough on the article page, at least. The only difference for me is I get the DDDD group and the Disc together, and you take the Disc down before the DDDD group. --- -- (s)talkpage  09:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, mad ASCII art skillz. The walkthrough is:
 * "Group" being a singular, it seems to imply to me that you just take out the DD groups. It says nothing about how to safely aggro or kill the DDD groups - as I said, the Warrior Stone Dwarf will rush out and aggro the Disc if you are not careful, and if you have any melee hench you must flag them back repeatedly. 3x Defense Golem is also not mentioned to negate the range problem. The walkthrough then says to aggro the DDDD group from "Golems/you". Well uh...unless you have a Siege Devourer handy, how could you possibly do that? Also, it's not possible to aggro the DDDD group without also aggroing the Disc. Maybe I am totally blind and there is some staircase I missed? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:36, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Group" being a singular, it seems to imply to me that you just take out the DD groups. It says nothing about how to safely aggro or kill the DDD groups - as I said, the Warrior Stone Dwarf will rush out and aggro the Disc if you are not careful, and if you have any melee hench you must flag them back repeatedly. 3x Defense Golem is also not mentioned to negate the range problem. The walkthrough then says to aggro the DDDD group from "Golems/you". Well uh...unless you have a Siege Devourer handy, how could you possibly do that? Also, it's not possible to aggro the DDDD group without also aggroing the Disc. Maybe I am totally blind and there is some staircase I missed? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:36, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you ;) You are correct, the walkthrough lacks mention of the DDD groups.. That's odd.
 * However, the walkthrough states to aggro the DDDD groups from the DD spawns platform, not from the absolute top. Still, they're behind a wall iirc... It really needs to be rewritten. And I've never noticed a stone dwarf actually... O-o" I'm so blind.
 * The staircases are like this, more precicesly (Sp?). Also just noticed the above "art" is slightly off.. The DDD groups should be closer to the center.

|..................Do0Om...................| |...........DD..............DD.............| |..........................................| |........===..................===..........| |.......==......................==.........| |..........................................| (this row just so it looks neater. Not to scale) |...D................................D.....| |......===.......................===.......| |........==......Golems/you.....==.........|
 * Whereas D is a Destroyer group, and Do0Om is the Disc. =='s imply stairs (scales better than "STAIR"). However, a new theory: The walkthrough sees the room as drawn above; without a 5th Destroyer group. That way, it makes sense. You can easily aggro the DD groups from the D platform. Which moreso asks for a rewrite, since it doesn't mention everything in the room O-o" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  21:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)