Talk:Weapon upgrade

What's a good way to organise the upgrade listings? Should there be an article for each type, so you'd get something like: Axe Upgrades > Axe Hafts >  or simply an article that lists all the Axe Hafts and one that lists all the Axe Grips, with the modifiers each has? The article-for-each method seems best to me IF there's additional information that each upgrade could use: things like strategies (combine A with B for a really great synergy) and what weapons/enemies seem to drop that upgrade the most (I don't know if this is even true; frex, do undead drop Vampiric upgrades more?). Also, gonna be using the http://www.gwonline.net/page.php?p=125 link that Adam posted over in the Hilts section to fill out some of my data. I have quite a lot unlocked on my account, but not everything. Nunix

Is it true that prefixed or suffixed armor from armor collectors can not be salvaged into upgrade items? I know that used to be the case but I'm not certain if it's still the case. I remember seeing something about salvaging collector armor in an update but can't find it! 21:30, 23 Jun 2005 (EST)

I haven't tried it so I'm not sure. I'll try to remember to do that the next time I'm logged in. MartinLightbringer(CS) 21:41, 23 Jun 2005 (EST)

Prefixes on weapons seem to be pretty much the same, but they just don't appear on all weapon types. So how about coding them like this?

A--S   Barbed     Lenghtens bleeding duration on foe A-HS   Crippling  Lengthens crippled duration on foe AB-S   Poisoner's Lengthens poinson duration on foe

where the first ABHS letters define if the prefix is found on that weapon type. A is axe, B is bow, H is hammer, S is sword. and - of course means that that prefix isn't available for that type. Also the shield and foci modifiers would be nice to have from somewhere on this site. Maybe change the page to item modifiers or something like that? --Jazim 01:45, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * There are Staff upgrades too...--Jackel 03:31, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * True. Staves have own prefixes. Defensive, Hale and Insightful. Could be on the same list too. Even though they don't appear on any other weapon. --Jazim 04:33, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * They have suffixes too, the types are staff heads (prefix) and staff wrappings (suffix)--Jackel 04:59, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)

I'd suggest a complete reformatting of this. The  -like formatting (caused by the spaces at the beginning of the lines) is pretty ugly and hard to read. --Fyren 04:43, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I knew it was ugly when I took it from axe, but my wiki-table skillz were less than the task. Anyway, it looks like there is a movement to create individual upgrade pages for each weapon type, so maybe this entry can just link to those and the ugly talbe here can be done away with?--Jackel 04:59, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)

Well, I was about to make it into a table, but I'm not sure about the best way of dividing (or not dividing) the info. I could just turn Jazim's info into a table and not divide anything or I could make two tables for each weapon type. If the latter, we could, for example, make an axe upgrades article that's just the tables and then  it into both the axe article and this page. Thoughts? --Fyren 08:14, 4 Aug 2005 (EST)

Chance of success
I removed the line about it being 90% likely that a salvage attempt will succeed. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but in my experience its much more like 60%. Anyone?


 * You're probably unlucky. 90% seems about right to me. However, any number is likely incorrect and will jibe with user experience, so it's likely best removed. &mdash;Tanaric 18:48, 10 Aug 2005 (EST)

New tables
The new tables are unnecessary. It would look better as a list. Or if the table was a bit more compact. 21:26, 7 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * This page is now more than just weapon upgrades, but weapon (and shield and focus) upgrades and modifiers. --Fyren 02:53, 8 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Rename to "modifiers" ?[[User:Ollj/Sig}}
 * This looks like a bad excel spreadsheet. Maybe if we color coded all the cells with green or red for 'available' or 'unavailable'?

Data
Some of this seems wrong or sorta not right. Hale is listed as applying to focuses and shields, for example. While they can have health bonuses, they should probably down under additional modifiers own their own, since there's no hale upgrade. There's also the entries like +10-15% damage (as in all the time), but that never exists alone. It's always paired with something like an armor penalty. Then, the armor penalty is listed on its own. I'm not sure how to clean that up.


 * I cleaned atleast some of it up --Jazim 00:56, 17 Aug 2005 (EST)

Ugly tables
The table has ugly borders around, couldnt we have 1px black lines?--Skuld &Dagger; 19:43, 28 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I don't much like it either, but that's just the way tables look... not sure if it's easily changed. --Midk 19:49, 28 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * very easily
 * {| border="1" to {| border="0" style="border:1px black solid"
 * --Skuld &Dagger; 02:33, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * ah, that just outlines the table, not each cell --Skuld &Dagger; 02:34, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * You could use this: border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" I think that looks much better, but I'll leave it up to you guys if you like it. --Rainith 02:58, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)

Fast Cast
For the 20% fast cast mod, I'm almost positive it's just like the recharge, and is a full 50% faster, not 20% faster like is listed. The 20% is the chance, not the speed. 67.182.143.162 02:32, 20 October 2005 (EST)


 * Done. I used all four items and the effect is that the time is always halved. --Karlos 03:34, 20 October 2005 (EST)

Missing Suffixes
I remember there is a "of Earth Magic" for staff. Probably exist for most other caster attributes too. Like the suffix "of BLAH-slaying", they cannot be unlocked for PvP, though I don't know why, when sword etc can. -PanSola 23:22, 20 October 2005 (EST)
 * Just got a Raven Staff of Fire Magic today, so at least Fire Magic suffix definitely exist, and I added it in. The one I got has 11% chance, but I automatically assumes it ranges from 10%~20%.  If people only one confirmed info, then replace the percentage with question mark for the time being I guess? -PanSola 18:18, 21 October 2005 (EST)
 * I'm pretty sure there is a suffix weapon upgrade for each and every attribute. Instead of creating a separate line for each of them, can we list just one line saying "... of : +1  (10-20% chance while using skills). --Tetris L 18:35, 28 October 2005 (EST)

Split Table?!
Normally I'm a friend of big overview tables. But I gotta say this one is a mess, and damn hard to read. I'd prefer if we split it, into one table for melee weapons, one for bows, and one for staves. Furthermore I'd prefer if we keep non-salvagable magical modifiers separate from "real" (salvagable) weapon upgrades. --Tetris L 18:42, 28 October 2005 (EST)


 * Amen, in fact, it was on my very long to-do list. --Karlos 19:11, 28 October 2005 (EST)


 * I will go ahead then, and suggest a new layout. --Tetris L 19:54, 28 October 2005 (EST)


 * Please review what I've done. My main question is: Should we split modifiers from upgrades and make modifier a separate article? --Tetris L 00:25, 29 October 2005 (EST)

I thought physical weapons (ABHS) can have mods that are + or - Energy?
 * Yes, but that would be a non-salvagable modifier, not an upgrade per definition.

Categories
I've created articles for all the weapon upgrade items (hilts, grips, etc), added them to category:Weapon Upgrades, which I made a sub-category of category:Items.

Now I've also created articles for all the prefixes and suffixes (zealous, icy, of enchanting, etc.). I'm not sure if I should add them to category:Weapon Upgrades, because then they would be mixed with all the items. I was thinking about creating category:Weapon Prefixes and category:Weapon Suffixes. But I don't know how to categorize those. What do you think?--Tetris L 21:29, 3 November 2005 (EST)


 * I think they are sub-categories of the ones in Cat:Weapon Upgrades right now. i.e. I believe it should be like this (the end leaves are articles):
 * Weapon Upgrades:
 * Bow Grips:
 * Of Fortitude
 * Of Shelter
 * Bow String:
 * Shocking
 * Vampiric
 * Hammer Haft
 * Shocking
 * Heavy
 * Some upgrades will appear in more than one sub category, like Shocking and Ebon some will appear in only one like Heavy. And yes, I believe the Article Shocking would be under category:Bow Strings and Hammer Hafts. --Karlos 23:40, 3 November 2005 (EST)


 * Well, FireFox went ahead and added them all to category:Weapon Upgrades. --Tetris L 18:57, 6 November 2005 (EST)


 * I'll point his attention to this discussion. --Karlos 19:46, 6 November 2005 (EST)

Adding new modifiers
Hi, just registered on the site and did not want to dive straight in, but wondered the best way to add a couple of items. I have a fire wand with energy +4 while enchanted (page only covers +1-3 while health so far). Do I add it as a separate line or modify the health related one?

Also I've seen a shield with recieved damage -3 while enchanted, the same question of how to add it applies.


 * If your question is how do I make the edit, just click edit on the article (or section) and then go to the range you want to fix and fix it. Make it "1-4" instead of "1-3." Now, if your question is how do you get permission to do this edit or approval. You don't. :) You just do the edit and if people don't like it they'll take it out and if it's solid it will stay (providing a rationale here helps). Thanks. --Karlos 07:10, 5 November 2005 (EST)

I'm not so sure that the +1-4 Energy while HP above/below 50% or enchanted can be found on staves; I think it's only wands.

Salvage Chance
Is it just me, or is the chance for salvaging a prefix or suffix not 50/50? For example: At least 75% of the Axe upgrades I have salvaged are grips, less than 25% hafts. Similar for Swords: >75% hilts, <25% pommels. (Note that for axes it's the suffix that has the higher chance, while for swords its the prefix.)

And even more: Among the Axe Grips that I've salvaged, the chance of salvage seems to decrease in the following order: Defense, Warding, Shelter, Fortitude, Enchanting, ... Defense has clearly the highest chance. About half of the axe grips that I've salvaged are axe grips of defense.

Can anybody confirm my impression? If yes, should we mention this in the article, even though we don't have precise numbers for the chances? -- 04:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that might just be your impression. I seem to have no luck salvaging suffixes while prefixes I salvage all the time.  That is regardless of what the weapon is.  Especially if the weapon only has a suffix, I will salvage crafting materials, I'd say, 90% of the time, while only 10% of the time will I get that suffix.  Whereas if the weapon has a prefix with no suffix, I seem to almost always salvage that prefix and rarely salvage crafting materials.  --Rainith 04:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Negative regeneration
Never particularly noticed before the anonymous edit, but the weapons are the only place the game lists a negative regeneration, I think. Everywhere else says either "re/degeneration of X," "-X degeneration," or "+X regeneration." --Fyren 20:47, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The weapons definately say "Energy regeneration -1" not "Energy degeneration -1" though. --Rainith 21:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

do certain attribute upgrades exist?
Specifically Strength, Tactics, Expertise, Beast Mastery, and Wilderness Survival. -PanSola 12:53, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No. The article currently implies this with how the description is written.  --Fyren 14:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Consider this quote from the Raven Staff article:
 * Note: The linked attribute is random choice, but only between the attributes as listed under Staff. For example, you will never find a Monk Raven Staff with a requirement in Healing Prayers or Protection Prayers.
 * The Weapon upgrade article currently can be interpreted as there are no +1 Healing Prayers or +1 Protection Prayers, which I do not think is true. I'll try to think of something more explicit to replace how the article is currently written, unless someone beats me to it. -PanSola 19:21, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Umm, before I figure out how to rewrite, I need to figure out: are there staff wrappings of Fast Casting, Soul Reaping, Divine Favor, and/or Energy Storage? -PanSola 22:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, that just means the "same as swords, etc." is incorrect. It's still true for non-staves.  I have no idea if there are wrappings for those primary attributes.  --Fyren 23:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Revised note. Only confirmed Divine Favor and Fire Magic because I personally found them.  Not sure of the rest of the old chart was generated based on educated guess or actual finding of upgrades. -PanSola 23:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

of slaying
The old table used to list each species in its own row. With the new format, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to find out which -slaying has been confirmed to exist... Not until an article is created for each of them and file them under their own sub-category at least )-: -PanSola 12:58, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, I think we should take that out. As far as I know we do NOT know that there is a "species" slaying weapon for every species. In addition some have different names like Deathbane. I have never seen a weapon of "drakeslaying" or "impslaying" or even "demonslaying" --Karlos 06:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

question about the definition
Weapon upgrades are magically enhanced weapon parts...

Where in the game or manual was it said that they are magically enhanced weapon parts? -PanSola 00:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Runic Weapons?
What is it with that note about "runic" weapons? I'm pretty sure it is bollox. I've got a Runic Hammer, and it does not provide any energy bonus. --Fisherman's Friend 06:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm extremely surprised to hear that. Can you take a screenshot of its description and post it?  The only two runic items I have information on are from Corwin_Luceinne and Fytch, do you know where you got yours from?  (quest, collector, or mob drop?) -PanSola 07:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I will check again tonight when I'm at home (at work now). I did not get it from a collector, for sure. I think I got it from a chest or from loot. It is pretty good, almost max dmg, so I kept it. But I didn't notice an energy bonus. Maybe I didn't look close enough. --Fisherman's Friend 08:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This one isn't mine. It's one that I found on the web. But it's an example of a runic weapon w/o energy bonus. --Fisherman's Friend 08:55, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a damn nice hammer. Shandy 08:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

VOTE: Upgrade vs Modifiers, split or rename article?
Since upgrade and modifiers are DIFFERENT things, either Weapon Modifiers should get their own article, or both are lumped under a different article titled Weapon bonus or something. -PanSola 22:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I say split the two. People will probably be more interested in stuff they can salvage off an item than in things they can't salvage.  --Rainith 11:33, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Split. --Fyren 08:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Split, but interlink the two. i.e. The Upgrade article should indicate it does not include mods and the mods article should indicate it does not include upgrades. --Karlos 18:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

splitted. -PanSola 07:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Gracias. :) --Karlos 08:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Prices
Someone should go through and add approximate "going-prices" for each max upgrade and intermediate upgrades, if possible. Could be fairly helpful as prices don't change that much, assuming no major GW update is released.


 * We will never add "going prices" to the wiki. Because any player could come in and change it, they could (for example) edit the price to be much higher than it actually is, link a newbie here, and then sell something to them at the higher price to scam them. &mdash;Tanaric 20:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Melee upgrades working on cast spells?
Can someone confirm this? As far as I know it has fluctuated between either rumour, or "common knowledge" without any tests to back it up. Toss a Cruel on a sword or axe and then cast, say, Phantom Pain, and see if the Deep Wound lasts longer. If this is true, it should be mentioned in the article somewhere; it's certainly an argument for condition casters to carry around a sword or two. --Nunix 04:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I got myself bleeding with Signet of Agony and transferred it to a foe with Plague Touch while wielding a Barbed sword. The foe bled not 25, but roughly 45 seconds, which is kinda strange, because that is even a lot more than the +33% that Barbed should have caused. I'll do further tests and report. --Fisherman's Friend 05:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This time I used a stopwatch to measure it:
 * The duration of bleeding caused by Sever Artery is lengthened from 21 to about 28 seconds (= ca. +33%) by a barbed sword.
 * The duration of bleeding caused by Signet of Agony+Plague Touch is lengthened from 24 to about 42 seconds (= ca. +75%) by a barbed sword.
 * Odd, very odd. The only possible explanation I could think of is that the +33% multiplier is applied twice, once when you use Signet of Agony and once when you transfer the bleeding to the foe, so it is 133% x 133% = 175% --Fisherman's Friend 08:22, 8 January 2006 (UTC)