Talk:Dishonorable Combatant System

Dishonor? As in you bring shame to our family for stealing faction?

Finally ffs this is so awsome --Cursed Angel 07:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Finally! If I had this a long time ago, my failure to keep up my 29 win streak in AB due to leechers wouldn't been that bad. Now if only I could do /reportluxons.... Flechette 11:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not all Luxons are bad. Like the ones that don't AB! --Vipermagi 15:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Says a member of a faction that used to use EoE bombers guesting in luxon guilds to sabotage the luxon side, and who can forget the good times when kurzicks could exploit the gates in Kaanai Canyon to capture points before the match even started? Yeah, you're an honorable lot all right. May the might of the armada never falter! -Gildan Bladeborn 20:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

"Dishonor?As in you bring shame to our family for stealing faction?"-I lol'dL' yra V' alo  11:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, Gildan Bladeborn, I have never ever seen that been used once and I have doing AB since factions came out. Are you sure your not jealous from the time we held deep luxon for 2 weeks? People could say the same to you, in my exprience, luxons use touchers and mobs 7/10, not exactly very honorable. Kurzicks are honorable, people may say we are not if the kurzick teams decides to counter-mob the mob with massive AoE capabilities, which on several encounters, resulted in a full luxon wipe. The first two comments was likely from Don Pygoscelis if anyone here is familar with the name. I am a Kurzick but I don't hug trees. Flechette 23:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The REASON you held deep Luxon territory was because of the EoE bombing. The Luxons literally lost the game before it even started and so the Kurdicks always won even when they sucked ass (as always). If you recall properly, once ANet finally got around to fixing the EoE lamering the Luxons held deep :Kurdick for a few days straight. Also, I don't know about touchers on Luxons and don't see many Kurdick touchers any more (people finally getting a clue? idk), but Kurdicks mob almost every single game I play in. In any case, Kurdick territory sucks anyway, I don't know why we'd want to take it, it's dark and you can hardly path half the time cause you can't see the ground. The Sea is so much better... --Gimmethegepgun 23:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Both sides suck, get over it. Stop whining. And from my personal experience as a Kurzick, Kurzicks are definitely NOT honourable, almost no one in Guild Wars is. And i've also been a Luxon, you guys suck too. Kurzicks suck, Luxons suck, AB is the shit hole of PVP, Done.--Darksyde Never Again 01:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup. Sums it up pretty well. Though I do like the sea better, if just because I can actually see the ground all the time --Gimmethegepgun 01:13, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My experience in ABs is this: the Kurzicks mob all the time and the Luxons are all internet toughguys who don't know when to shut up. We're both groups of total idiots and I think that our best players live 12 hours apart from each other, because usually when I get home mid-day, we're in deep Luxon territory, but when I play early morning, we're deep in Kurzick territory. I tell ya, ABing is fun when you turn off all-chat and have a team that knows not to run into the part of the radar that has 20 hostile markers on it. :D ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 03:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Anet did it backwards
Players have incentive to leave if they don't want to play with noobs and idiots. The solution is to have separate arenas for players who are bad at the game and for those who have more experience.
 * How do you propose to divide "bad" and "experienced" players? That's like rank discrimination all over again, so don't even think about it. 14:18, 21 Octboer 2007 (EST)

For myself, after I type /resign I just switch to the internet browser open in the background and do other things until my team gets finished off or also resigns.--Mont 07:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC) ":It's stuff like that that made ANet introduce this new system Silver Sunlight 08:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Anet's idea and intent are good, but I've all ready seem worse outcomes because of this. The main one is people who suicide. I'd rather they leave than suicide, cause at least it shows their intent. I hate leavers, but this fix doesn't feel right either. I do like the idea of ranked arena play. The only PvP where they match you up based on skill right now is GvG. That's pretty low for an initially PvP based game.

But the true backwards part is the gladiator title. You have people just playing arenas for the title. I personally play the arenas for fun, and it got a lot less fun once titles were introduced. Remove the titles, remove the lechers, leavers and the suiciders. Actually, you may still have some who do it for faction, but it would do more to help than the dishonor system. Honestly, if the only reason your in the arenas is for a title, than you should be doing something else anyways. Something you would do just for the fun of doing it. --Mooseyfate 16:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because they don't sit and afk doesn't mean you can't report them. They are still being dishonorable by suiciding and ruining others' chance to win, so they can still be reported. -Desi  22:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

More simply, it's been a no-brainer for a long time that Anet should reset the counter for how many games a team has left before being transfered to TA when a player leaves. For those who enjoy RA because of it's shorter time commitments and random element, it's broken gameplay when replacement team members are the only members who don't get a Glad point (because TA teams frequently are impossible to defeat without a coordinated team build).

Having players leave mid-match if a team member leaks that their team already has a number of wins, as I've seen happen, poisons the community.--Mont 16:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

So I get punished if...?

 * Players who report a team member for leeching without a third of their team also reporting that player will also receive 2 dishonor points.

So if my team doesn't know how to report or just chooses not to, I get punished? If more than 2/3 of my team are leechers, (unlikely but plausible), I get punished?

On a side note, can I only report people inside my 4 man team in Alliance Battles?L' yra V' alo  15:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you stating that second one as a fact and asking why, or is it asking for the answer? And to your first note, that's to help with people that just spam reports at people as griefing, if they do then they get dishonor and eventually won't be able to play --Gimmethegepgun 15:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * To accrue points because someone on your team didn't /report would suck, but you should still /report leechers. Besides, who stays in an area of the game when there's a bunch of leechers? If you have to do this multiple times within a couple hours, why would you stay in that part of the game anyway? Go take a break and do something else. -- Mah sa  22:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow, will this really work well?
I bet I'll get dishonor points for being a noob that goes about nuke-capping shrines in AB instead of heading towards a large mob with my suicidal teammates (esp suicidal if we're one short due to a leecher/afker). "Stick together team", uh no thanks - you don't win by charging into a mob at _their_ res shrine. Then I can't play for X minutes.


 * Why don't they just add an Exclude list (a bit like the Ignore list). If I don't want to end up in a team with someone I put them on my Exclude list. Sure someone could try to add everyone in a random arena's district in order to create a team, but there are easy ways around that (e.g. for every person you have on your exclude list, your odds of getting into a match are reduced -seems fair that if you want to be picky, you don't get to play as much ). Something like the Exclude List has been suggested before by others, and I haven't seen any well reasoned objections to that idea (I suspect some objectors could be leechers who know it'll work too well ;) ). I don't end up in the same team as someone on my Exclude List, but we both still have a chance of playing with others.


 * Hard to exicute changes to CHANCE of including team members, might mean a rewrite of the engine. Sometimes the SOLUTION is bigger than the problem! RT | Talk 18:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not hard. I write programs and that sort of thing will be trivial. The trick is actually figuring out what formula/curve to use that most players will think is fair AND actually works.
 * The solution to this problem is to do alliance battles with people you know, and only take strangers for a missing slot. Unless everyone you know is already a jackass, in which case you're pretty much screwed. -Gildan Bladeborn 20:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't help for Aspenwood. Leeching is not usually a big problem in AB, since the team usually kicks the leecher the next round and often word gets around quick. In AB I suspect most leechers are actually AFK'ers - while they were waiting ages to get in, they had to do something etc.
 * Another problem with this is people might use their exclude list not only for leachers/leavers but for people that they don't think are good players, so that they have a better chance of getting a good team and leaving the new players without a chance against the more "elite" teams.--[[Image:Wiki-signiature.GIF]]  Apprentice  (talk)|(contribs) 21:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

/report not working
for me and some other people in my guild... geez its ab weekend that system must work properly &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Orao de seno (contribs).
 * it works now. --Kyrax 20:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Getting it for ourselves
One of us needs to get it to show the icon for dishonor, i'll volontear myself, unless it involves getting account marked! RT | Talk 20:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

In game appear
--Dunkoro 20:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd already got it, here's the hex: [[Image:Dishonorable.jpg]] RT | Talk 20:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * i framed it if u dont mind --Dunkoro 20:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks RT | Talk 20:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A hex spell? Can it be removed? :P ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 20:23, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably not. Sometimes it dosn't show up! RT | Talk 20:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Wonder if you can activate bls with it O_o.--Diddy Bow 20:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As it's a hex, will we do an article on it? RT | Talk 20:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that it's a hex that only appears in town, so probably not. -Gildan Bladeborn 20:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * the picture shows its in a town as u cant add heroes in explorable areas --Dunkoro 13:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Right, but the picture doesn't show it no longer displaying when you leave town. Obviously it displays in PvP outposts, otherwise how would it work? -Gildan Bladeborn 19:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The 5 points for leaving prematurely
How do you get these, do you have to be reported or not..?--TimOfDoom 20:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, just leave RT | Talk 21:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Odd, I left prematurely (we only had one team member left, they had for) in RA just to test this, it didn't say I had any points anywhere.. How do you know!?--TimOfDoom 10:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any way to tell how many points you've got until you hit 10 -Ezekiel 13:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Exploited?
I could see this being exploited by players. I commonly EoE bomb aspenwood(as in killing everything on the map, except turtles, via EoE), and I get hated for it, but what I do isn't against anything stated here in the dishonor article. I could see somebody say in team chat "Hey, report Teh Uber Pwnzer for leeching, if enough of us do it we wont get in trouble" and I would get this debuff. I love aspenwood bombing, and I don't really wanna see it get ruined by this, even if other people hate me for it. I could also see this being exploited to keep noobs with extremely bad builds from joining. In conclusion, I think its a good way to weed out leechers and leavers, but it leaves it open to be exploited to weed out players like me just trying to have fun(see: []). --<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 22:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think ANet is just going to go with the players' word. They probably made themselves a nice system that when a report is sent, it'll show a log of all the player's actions in that instance, so they'll see that you're not actually doing what they claimed and maybe they'll even get in trouble for lying! :D ~ <font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]]<font color=#DDDD00> <font color=#FF9900>Dean   - 23:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

?

could u get reported in ra for using a tank build so u cant be killed and whaiting 4 the other team 2 leave? eg shadow form sin
 * Remember there's now a time limit on matches. Means if your party gets wiped and you're the last one, your team probably has the lowest morale, so you end up losing due to the tie-breaker. But I guess you could also be reported for bad manners by the opposing team, though.
 * You cant be reported for anything except for whats listed in the article. So you should be able to use a build that cant die, not that there is a point, as there's a time limit now. What I'm saying is that this will probably get exploited how I said above. --<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you get reported for this, just submit a ticket to anet! They'll sort em out! RT | Talk 19:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

gvg or ha?
does it affect gvg? monthly is this afternoon so do i have to watch out? --Dunkoro 13:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It says PvP so, yeah. On a completely related note, does it affect the PvP in Ascalon Arena just before searing? RT | Talk 19:11, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Userbox
can sum1 make an userbox with this?i'd love to add one to my page --Dunkoro 15:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't know what colors you wanted, but those are the picture names. [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 15:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Perfect thx very mutch --Dunkoro 16:20, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Bullshit....
I leave a RA match early cause a jerk on my team is running a 55 and I wasn't going to sit around waiting for the other team to get bored, so I leave and get 5 points, they add up from existing points that I apparently had... No idea how that happened... and I get locked out of pvp... Its bullshit, I did nothing wrong...--Alari 05:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You could have resigned, or alt tabbed and done other things. It's only 5 pts for leaving so unless you did it twice in an hour you wouldn't have been dishonourable. -Ezekiel 08:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Alt-tabbing is bad advice. If the other players have a clue, they'll report him, netting 3*2=6 dishonor points (makes little difference, but is certainly not better). And it's wasted time for everyone involved. If you don't want to play, then
 * /resign, and hope your teammates do so too
 * if they don't, either play even with a 55 in the team and leave at the end of the match,
 * or leave, accept the disonor points and be prepared for 60 minutes of PvE it this is the 2nd time this happens.
 * (Unlike waiting it out, going Rurik on your team will allow you to avoid the dishonor points. Which is why I predict RA will settle near the previous grief level, rather than going back to pre-glad state.) 134.130.4.46 00:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In the situation where all your teammates bar one are dead, and that teammate does not have a res, where there is no chance of that player winning against the enemy team, and you are in RA; Alt-tabbing is perfectly valid. What's the difference between sitting there dead saying nothing, and being alt tabbed web browsing; to your teammates, none. I am against leaving in nearly all cases (excluding the "time until next match") but in that specific case there is no loss by alt tabbing or going afk. If however they have a res and hadn't gotten a chance to use it, things would be different -Ezekiel 09:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

An absolute joke.
So the noobs cry and get exactly what they want again? That's why I've quit this game.

--172.189.241.14 09:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC) Queenie.
 * It's better than a few people (read: ragequitters) getting to leave whenever they want just because they "think" they're not going to win, preventing their whole team from winning simply because they're down by numbers. And besides, why should new players have to take so much grief? So what, you never want any new players to play the game? That means that ANet makes no money, which means the end of GW. How else are you supposed to gain the experience necessary to PvP if no one plays with you? Elitism at its finest, there, folks. Kokuou 10:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If you quit the game because of RA, then I have nothing but pity for you. 220.101.138.130 10:23, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, I have nothing but pity if you left just because of a system that makes the elitists who Wthink oh this team is crap" have to pay up for ragequitting and ruining matches for other people... Every time I've got around 6 wins in a row in RA, I got some ragequitter who joined the team because someone else had to go, and they immedietly go oh this team sucks and quit..--TimOfDoom 10:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah when i saw Queenie's comment i was like "someone who plays for ego". I like it when new players play Guild Wars. What i don't like is people who bash other people. Whether it's a nooby wammo/ammo/demo, or someone like queenie who rubs their /rank in everyone's faces. Play for fun, teach the newbies, and be proud of yourself when they got mad skillz and maxed titles for being the person who taught them to play =o--Darksyde Never Again 01:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

We can't change that a large portion of the time experienced players will rag on noobs. Everybody wins if Anet finally made a PVP area for noobs. No reason for it to be such a difficult experience for noobs to learn how to play PvP.--Mont 04:04, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I wonder how you would do it. RA that cannot be entered if you have any pvp titles? -Ezekiel 08:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems like they could just create separate RA circuits for those with glad1 and below and those with glad2 and above. As long as players are attracted to RA, Anet should put in these minimum changes that would make it less frustrating. As it stands it just makes Anet look incredibly lazy and not in touch with what the community is doing.--Mont 01:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This could make it harder to find a group though, especially when there's not many people on. Unless the two bled into each other when no opposing party joins. -Ezekiel 02:09, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Most people would probably be happy if the res sig was non-removable from RA bars and flashes when a team mate dies. Thats my main beef with RA.--Alari 02:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... does this sound familiar "R9+ GLFM" This is freakin rank discrimination all over again. It's called RANDOM Arenas for a reason, cuz its random. You have no idea what people you'll be grouped with, and you need to do your best to win. If you want something more structured, or want to weed out "noobs", PLEASE stfu and go to TA. 14:26, 21 October 2007
 * Yes, some people simply ignore what the community is doing in practice and opt instead for counterproductive normative pronouncements.--Mont 21:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

+20% while hexed?
Farm yourself about 2 hours of dishonor, get a weapon that does +20% while hexed and go do PvE? - 79.74.102.190 11:09, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * L O L --Dunkoro 13:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I smell a nerf for the only in-town hex comin =o--Darksyde Never Again 01:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * lol that's funny and pretty random, I wonder if anyone has tested this? 195.212.29.92 13:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't this be in the exploits area? :) -- Mah sa  22:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

As just stated: in. town. hex. It doesn't appear in explorable areas.--Carmine 18:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * yea yea but its funny --Dunkoro 16:46, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...
The number of things that could go wrong with this currently haunts me.

it does not work? again?
or its only affects me --Dunkoro 17:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

How to avoid Dishonor Points
I randomly got a Dishonorable debuff on my PvP character, and I simply deleted it and recreated it. When I logged back in, the debuff was gone. DeathWeasel 04:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Add as bug? RT | Talk 19:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Grammar check on that bug note, please. :S AqueneMosi 01:13, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Melandru's Resilience
Anyone tested it out with that skill yet? :p Blaze 08:39, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, just learned that it doesn't show/is in effect out of towns. Does that also mean you can get to Random Arenas via the Canthan Ferry Captain via the Isle of the Nameless? Blaze 08:42, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite possibly, it probably just means you can't "start the mission." Ergo, you can chat all you want, but no PvP for you, little man!  --RavynousHunter 22:01, 9 October 2007 (CST)

Interview With Chris
Chris Capuano was actually talking today, so I asked him what he thought of it(lol):


 * Me: chris, you here?
 * Chris: of course
 * Me: what are your view about the dishonor system?
 * Chris: it didnt work, it got people who didnt deserve it
 * Chris: it didnt stop me at all
 * Chris: people who were slow loaders got leeched tagged.

Well, there we go. Straight from the King of Leechers' mouth.--<font color="Green">Teh Uber Pwnzer 08:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hah

Leaving "Early"
Wow, if you leave as soon as your entire team dies in a map with no res shrines/priest, you get points, that sucks - Why have a delay before the winning team is announced, sort of obvious, lol.. 85.81.126.123 21:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If you leave during countdown, you get no Dishonorable, AFAIK --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 21:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

i agree...anet totally failed with this...
 * Seriously annoying. One time in RA I was in a team with 2 wammos against 3 wammos, and everybody else were healers-pretty obvious how that was going to end. A similar situation happened 2 matches later. This basically just wastes time. 222.153.227.37 08:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Halo 3
They stole this from Halo 3. 72.66.12.77 02:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The halo series suck anyway. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 11:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

- My 2 Cents

After coming back to GW I find that they just keep making the game worse. This, and everything balanced. Balanced for PvP, Balanced for PvP, Balanced for PvP. Welcome to WoW 2.0
 * Thats right the game shouldn't be balanced everyone should just run the same 5 builds. The Madgod 18:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Bugs
1.Doesn't work for Wintersday, as in kill the 4 people, get the 400 faction, rinse and repeat, Balthazar FFF Anow2 21:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * intersting <B><font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black"><B>Talk</B>  21:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe they didn't intend for it to affect minigames. Did it work with the Costume Brawl during Halloween? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I just tested it; you can get dishonorable for raging from Snowball arenas just like any other. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ingame Appearance
As far as I know, the in-game appearance has been updated. I ragequit once (first time, someone saying "I'm a noob and I'm stupid", something I can't stand) and I disconnected the other time (they need to fix it, and it was just before the 10th win). I didn't screen it, but it includes the arenas you're not allowed to PvP in. Someone care to leave twice? Drag <font color="FF5500">nmn  talk cont  21:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Abuse
I got reported because for leeching because i ran a good smiting build in RA, and got this "hex". Doesn't seem fair that people report me for that. That's far from a good reason to do it. Btw i've been on winning streek with that build, so it's not even bad. But, that still has nothing to do with the case. Should people get reported for running a 'bad' build? Or what noobs think first is a bad build without trying. With their mindless builds taken right off Pvx, i dont see anything noobish in my trying new alternatives. It should be harder to report people than so. Make a more advanced system ffs. Jahora 23:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised that claim went through tbh. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, basically everything works in RA. I got though 11 wins with a trapper using Echo and Arcane Mimicry. Oh, and QZ on the bar, but my team mates hated me when I used it. But, that doesn't matter much. I also find it weird it got through. Especially for leeching, assuming you did your job. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 23:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't leech. And like i said, the build works quite well. Smiter's are rare, so a good half-dmg half-support build with Smiter's Boon seemed good. And i weren't wrong, worked really well along with a real healer. Jahora 23:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The claim got through because all it asks for is to have enough people report them, it doesn't matter what for --Gimmethegepgun 21:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

This system is flawed
Why am I getting Dishonorable in Rollerbeetle Racing if I lag until I'm at least 100 miles away from the nearest beetle and resign? -Yikey 09:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah im getting the exact same problem. My computer lags i resign and it counts it as leaving? =( Or i enter a battle and then it doesnt load and sends me back to the Rollerbeetle racing "waiting" area and counts it as leaveing...hmm ? X lorien X 04:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Remove Hex?
Could you use remove hex in Isle of the Nameless? Cos it's a pvp area... Just a thought :P Evilness Kills 12:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Guild Wars treats Great Temple of Balthazar as PvE area it seems. I couldn't see this hex upon myself while there. So It shouldn't work on Isles of Nameless either. J Striker 14:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You can also use PvE only skills on the isle.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]<font color="Black">ìğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a beauty pagent! 04:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)