Talk:Tomb of the Primeval Kings (location)/Archive

new update, apparently this is now a PvE location.

I don't agree that this is a mission. It doesn't have a mission icon, it has a PvP Arena icon. 03:36, 18 Jun 2005 (EST)

And let's get rid of these unnecessary (Location) addon's. Add (Mission) to distinguish, but let's have the same format without (Location) for ALL locations.

No, I disagree with that. If there is a mission and a location with the same name then a disambiguation is, in my opinion, necessary. If someone types in "Fort Ranik" then I think it's best to present them with the choice of the location or the mission information. You could make persuasive arguments that they are going to be more interested in the location than the mission, or that they are going to be more concerned about the mission than the location. For example, for the former argument you could say that all locations should have the same syntax, i.e. free of the word "(Location)" in their title. Equally, for the latter argument you could say that when users want information on a mission they probably won't want to type the word "(Mission)" after the url, and people won't often be that concerened about the location information. I think I would personally favor the latter case over the former, which would mean that (Location) is used, and (Mission) is not. My point is that since no one is ever going to agree over this issue the disambiguation page makes the most sense. 22:56, 18 Jun 2005 (EST)


 * Its an old discussion I see, but this point present me with lots of trouble as I try to create the PvP related articles. Seeing how there are no disambiguity pages so far, I will refrain from creating one. However I will set all redirects and links to the tournament page Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Mission), since that is what everyone will be looking for when typing "tombs". This page is redundant, since it is a copy of Tomb of the Primeval Kings --Xeeron 01:42, 24 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Ok I got the system here now: All doubles have 2 pages, one with (Mission), one with (Location), and the redirects always lead to the mission. --Xeeron 02:45, 24 Sep 2005 (EST)

The new Tombs
Gaile Gray has sort of confirmed that the Tombs will stay the way they are now. See here (third image, about 2/3 way down). Quote: "The changes that are happening to Tombs are permanent." --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 05:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

"evil entity erupting from the Underworld"?
If this is because of the dryders and banished dream riders, mind you, they are not natural residents of the Underworld. They INVADED the Underworld and imprisoned the reapers of Grenth and stuff. They originated from somewhere else. Unless there's a different source/evidence that these evil beings came from the Realm of Grenth, I'm going to reword that. - PanSola 14:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The name of the new Underworld
Hmmmm. We might run into problems with the use of the term "underworld" here, since that already exists in the Temple. Either both locations are the underworld (with 2 different entrences, like surface-world vs underworld) and we should change the underworld article accordingly or we might need a disambiguity page. Ohh, and trust ANet to keep the PvE people happy as well lol --Xeeron 05:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, we need to come up with a name.. The four areas still have their old names: The Underworld, Scarred Earth (both have the same background & design) then the Courtyard and the Hall of Heroes (both having the same design).
 * The Underworld refers to a specific explorable area. Now there are two explorable areas with the same name. It used to be a PvE area and PvP arena. Now it's TWO PvE areas and the arena (haven't been to the Tournament yet, but I hear it's the same).
 * Now, the new Underworld is just the FIRST map in a series then there are 3 others. So, basically, the new "area" is actually 4 "explorable areas". This is different than anything we have had before.
 * Now, the question is, do we need a name for the "new" area (i.e. the four combined levels). OR.. Do we just make PvE articles for the PvP places? Do we make a disambig between the UW from ToA and the UW (first level) from Tombs? Are we even sure this will stay? --Karlos 15:03, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I say we call it the Tombs for short. It's mentioned multiple times at various places that Anet is moving all PvP content to Battle Isles, so I'm pretty sure alling it the Tombs mission/quest/whatever is going to be unambiguous from now on. -PanSola 03:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * To elaborate, we make one article for the four combined areas. Then, for each of the existing articles for the PvP maps, we split the content into disamb sections (but keeping them in the same article).  Finally, while I'm not sure this will stay, I am 99.98% certain that the Hall of Heros PvP tournament will NOT return to the tombs.  Anet's pretty clear about consolidating high level PvP to the Battle Isles.  And because I can't think of what will happen if this thing doesn't stay (the HoD sword is one thing, the candy cane thing is one thing, but having new unique items just for a weekend?), I'll willing to bet real world cash that this change will stay.  My 2 cents. -PanSola 08:38, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

we should call it something less ambiguous. I propose "PvE Hall of Heroes", becasue that is what it is. People just call it UW because the first map you have to clear is called UW too.


 * Check this Gaile Gray transcript. Towards 3/4 down,  (emphasis mine)

Gaile Gray: I believe that the special rewards in the Ruins of the Tomb of Primeval Kings are going to continue to drop, yes. "That might be as close as we'll get for an official name. -PanSola 07:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I like this name. I believe the items should still be called HoH items because the actual place they drop is not in the tombs, but supposedly in the Rift. --Karlos 11:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think "Ruins Items" is much more fitting. Gailes name for it is much better then HOH or UW for obvious reasons. HoH definatly needs changed. HoH items will be confusing due to the chest drops, nobody is going to confuse "Ruin" drops.--The King Tarosian 15:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Except the word "ruins" don't actually appear in the game and I don't expect if you just say "ruins" people will get it. So for a short reference to the items, I perfer "Tombs Items" for short, though if expanded it'd be "Ruins of the Tomb of Primeval Kings Items".  The tombs, by the way, IS in the rift I think.  The outpost is just the entrance to enter the rift to get to teh tombs, I thought. -PanSola 04:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think "Tomb of the Primaval Kings Unique Items" is the name that will cause the least confusion, even if strictly speaking the items drop not in the Tomb itself but in the Rift. "Ruins of the Tomb of Primeval Kings", even if Gaile Gray called it like that, doesn't seem to fit, because the Tombs are not in ruins. -- 05:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Most people I heard talking called it old tombs when talking about it. Give it some time and this will become the tombs and heroes ascent will become the pvp tournament. Agreed to "Tomb of the Primaval Kings Unique Items". --Xeeron 05:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Most people I heard call it "UW", not even bothering with "new", which annoyed me to no end. I'm trying to get everyone to say "Tombs" for short.  BTW, Gaile Gray has also started to use the short hand "Tombs" to refer to the area.  Anyways, whatever the full name is, I support "Tombs" as shorthand over "HoH" or "Ruins". -PanSola 13:55, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Then how about "Tombs Underworld", for short? -- 01:06, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We need to get rid of the name "Ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings" asap, because ...
 * It's too damn long!
 * It's missleading. The Tomb of the Primeval Kings is still intact, not ruined at all. It's the place on the other side of the portal, in the Rift/Underworld that was altered.
 * I'd much prefer if we call it the Tombs Underworld. It's short and clear. -- 09:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think using Tombs Underworld as shorthand is fine, but that we should keep the practice of sticking to the wording used in the game. I would prefer to see The Underworld (Tomb of the Primeval Kings) and The Underworld (Temple of Ages/God's Realm/Statue of Grenth/Original/WTF ever we decide to call it to seperate it from the new underworld).  Keeping the original Underworld page as a disambig page.  --Rainith 11:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * True that. Agreed. But The Underworld (Tomb of the Primeval Kings) is only the first one in the sequence of four maps. We have the name conflict with all four of them. And we need to come up with a name for the whole sequence. I don't think there is an in-game name for that given anywhere. -- 11:58, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm actually calling it TombUW with my friends, it's short & clear --Neck 12:45, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What are the official ingame names of the other maps then? I admit I haven't ventured past the first level.  --Rainith 12:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's the same maps as the PvP tomb, except that only some are used (Underwolrd, saccred earth, the courtyard, the hall of heroes).


 * If you pay attention to what one of the NPC says (timed monologue, not conversation dialogue), he says "If you wish to enter the Tombs, I suggest you take one of our Zaishen henchies with you" or something like that. Ie. the outpost is OUTSIDE the tombs.  When you enter the portal, you ENTER the tombs.  I disagree with using the term "Underworld" in anyway except to identify the first of the four stages of the area. -PanSola 13:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)



Thus, the place that is altered can be considered the Tombs, and the outpost is just the ENTRANCE to the tombs. Also see official website news (Jan 20, "Global Event Begins":

... enjoying the exciting new explorable area that has been formed from the ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings. 

While we have a precedent of using player terms over official terms if it's not in-game, in this case I think the official name came out quick enough (as opposed to the ascension armor), AND the player term hasn't been unified, AND UW is very misleading (and annoys me more than when I see "hella"), AND Tombs is going to less ambiguous, especially once it's not being used to refer to the tournament.


 * I agree, my statement above about UW (Tomb...) should be taken for the first map only. It seems to me that really what we are looking for is a region name, not an explorable are name (maybe I'm just really slow in coming to realize that, and every one else knew that all along).  So my suggestion would be that the region be Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Region) and what is currently listed as Tomb of the Primeval Kings (Location) can stay as it is.  --Rainith 14:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC)