Talk:Trainer locations

Purge
I just noticed this function on the game updates page which I find quite handy, so I'm adding it here too, for easy access. --Tetris L 00:00, 1 Oct 2005 (EST)

Click here to update the main article's includes

Various
Trainer locations are now largely irrelevant. Questgiver locations and rewards per class should be the basis of this knowledgebase.

You're probably right.

I still think we need this info, but I agree that it's not too relevant. - LordBiro

This is an okay section to have. It needs to be re-organised by location, NOT by profession. Give the NPC a Name Link and then a straight listing of the skills they have available. The NPC's page canfurther organise which skills belong to which profession. Nunix

I'm with nunix on this one, it needs to be broken out, because it's getting out of hand.

Also, then we can link the Skills people from the location's proper page. Gravewit

I'm going to go ahead and update a lot of this, I found a superb list of skills and trainers which is listed as free to use for everyone. http://cleaned.beyondunreal.com/temp/GuildWars/GW_SkillRewardQuests.htm LordKestrel 11:26, 7 Jul 2005 (EST)

Alright, all done. This is a good page to look and see what skills need entries added (unless I misspled them of course), and IMNSHO, is one of the nicer trainer guides out there.LordKestrel 12:26, 7 Jul 2005 (EST)

Seems to me this page would server better if it just matched up names and locations, and we maintain the individual trainers' pages as appropriate. Easier to link that way too. Postponing case crusade on this page until we discuss this. &mdash;Tanaric 23:39, 19 Jul 2005 (EST)
 * I like having one big list of all the Trainers and skills available from them. Perhaps we could also have indivdual pages which are auto-generated off of this one? LordKestrel 06:26, 21 Jul 2005 (EST)

I have transformed my trainer list in table format to Wiki code. For now I have created a new page: Trainer Locations new Please discuss which version we should continue to use in future. --Tetris L 18:36, 12 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Discuss it over at Talk:Trainer Locations new to keep it in one place. --Fyren 03:39, 13 Aug 2005 (EST)

Sept 7 Update Changes

 * It looks like everything that is offered by Taltosh in Grenich Courthouse is now also offered by Captain Osric in Yak's Bend. Anyone want to confirm this?  It looks like Osric's skill list will need a full update and like every skill that's offered by Taltosh will need it's aquisition updated.  I don't think I got a full skill list, I just checked the Elementalist/Ranger skills then had to move on to help a friend.  I'm happy with the way things are now, though, with having to update both places.  Whenever I go to a different site that lists skills (such as guildwarsguru.com), the first question asked after a skill description tends to be, "Wow, where can I get this skill from?!?111thousand"  It's also really handy to see what skills are offered in a given location.
 * That's right. They changed skill trainers in the summer update. All trainers in cities now have all the skills from all outposts after the last city (i.e. the trainer in Amnoon Oasis has the skills from Maguuma Stade and Fishermen's Haven in addition to those he always had). Not all traniners/skills have been updated with this information yet nad the Trainer locations list needs to be updated, too. --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 18:02, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * The Skill Trainers now follow the same pattern as the Priests of Balthazar. See Faction. We need to update the Skill Trainer pages and we have to check the acquisition details of many skills. Lots of work to do. Damn ANet for this one. :) --Tetris L 18:20, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * The grim reality of multiple lists with the same information. Woop dee doo! :) --Karlos 18:47, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Yeah, we should dump these list alltogether. All the information is already in the acquisition details of each skill. The user would only have to click through 469 skill pages to find out where he can get each skill. Woop dee doo! ;) --Tetris L 21:30, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Yes, exactly. I never use those lists myself. All I do is to enter the name of the skill into the search field. I rarely want to know where I can get all skills. Usually I'm only interested in one skill at a time. ;) Before you get me wrong: I don't say those lists are useless. All I say is I don't use them. But I definitely think two lists (Trainer Locations and Trainer Locations Table) with the same content are one too much.--Eightyfour-onesevenfive 21:52, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * 1. There is definetly a demand for such pages. Before I moved the content of my GW skill-quest list to GuildWiki I had 40000+ hits on that page within a few weeks.
 * 2. I agree Trainer Locations and Trainer Locations Table are 100% redundant and one of the two should be scrapped. There is no information whatsoever that one of the pages has that the other ones doesn't have. It's just the formating that's different. But Trainer Locations Table was meant to be only temporary anyway ... until we've decided which version we should keep. Now that we have a major re-work to do it's time to make that decission. And since the majority of those who commented seems to prefer the list format over the table format, and since I have an idea how to linkt the content of the trainer overview with the content of the individual trainer pages to avoid redundancy I suggest that we dump Trainer Locations Table and keep Trainer Locations. --Tetris L 23:42, 19 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Unlike the 40,000 users who came to your site, I am like 84.175... I never touched these pages, never could bring myself to look at them. Too horrid. :) Here is how my limited brain works:
 * I need a skill: Hmm, search the wiki for the skill name, look at aquisition. If I don't know where that trainer is, I'll click on the outpost name and that's it... End of story. (Now I know Tyria more than I know Seattle) :)
 * If I am curious what skills a trainer has.. I simply walk up to him and click on him! :)
 * I do recognize there is a third type of users who think "what skills are at that outpost?" For them, they need to see all the skills a trainer has, but they don't have access to the trainer yet. And I think they can do just fine with one list. --Karlos 08:14, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I think the same way as Karlos -- Banaticus

Use of "Modules" (Sub-Articles)
Please have a look at what I've done with Captain Greywind. I used the "module" Captain Greywind/Skills in this list AND in the article Captain Greywind. This was done to avoid redundancy. If the majority of us agrees that this is a good way to proceed, then I will update the skill list for ALL trainers tomorrow and create modules for all of them. --Tetris L 00:13, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I can see only one major disadvantage about this method: The average Wiki user who is not familiar with Wiki code can not edit the list of skills simply by clicking "edit". He has to enter the URL of the "module" manually in the adress bar to reach it. --Tetris L 01:03, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I personally could live with that. Maybe we should add a short comment to the sourcecoude explaining this, something like "to edit the content of this section go to: Captain Greywind/Skills". I think this is an acceptable compromise between usability and maintenance (yay, no redundancy!). :) --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 01:13, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * BUMP! Before I go ahead I'd like to hear a few more opinions. --Tetris L 16:08, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Wait! Don't change them!! It's not gonna work!!


 * Ha ha! Got you! :) Thou hast my blessings, sire. --Karlos 20:07, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Looks good to me! I think the collector page needs the same treatment too. --Anon 11:36 20 Sep 2005 (BST)

Okay, I'm done for now. There are a few things left to be done:
 * 1) Confirm that all trainers follow the "pattern" that I think. For example I'm not sure about Sorrim.
 * 2) Sort out which trainers have the Signet of Capture and the Resurrection Signet.
 * 3) Update the acquisition details of many many skills. I'll need help with that one.
 * 4) Maybe add notes about which skills are availabale as quest reward and which aren't.
 * 5) Last but not least I'd prefer if we'd sort the list not by alphabet, but by the "order of appearance" in the game, i.e. the same order as the Locations Master List.--Tetris L 22:28, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Regarding #4: Karlos, you edited the "Rule of thumb" out of my notes. Are you 100% sure that the rule of thumb is more than a rule of thumb, that it's always correct, that it's a RULE? Did you check each individual skill? --Tetris L 23:19, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I am not sure users will understand "rule of thumb" as meaning "it's an unproven estimate." Rule of thumb usually is understood as "this is the way it is." I took it out because it seemed to infer certainty (especially with the capitalization after it), not uncertainty, as such, it was redundant. If you wish to infer uncertainty, I think there are more accurate terms. I, in fact, do not believe this rule is completely accurate. I just left you a note in your talk page about that. --Karlos 23:35, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I am NOT 100% sure that the rule of thumb is ALLWAYS correct. That's why I called it a rule of THUMB, not a rule. There may be exceptions, but generally the skill trainers follow a common pattern: Those skill trainers in outposts that are "off the road" of the storyline offer the skills that are NOT available as quest reward, whereas the skill trainers in cities and major outposts "along the road" of the storyline used to (until the Sept 7 update) have the skills that are available as quest reward. There may be exceptions from this rule of thumb, but I think (I hope) there are very few. If we find more than a handful of exceptions, we should remove the notes. --Tetris L 23:38, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * There is really nothing to debate here. You agree there are exceptions and that we should look into that. And all I did was remove an emphatic statement. "Rule of thumb: NONE of these skils..." does not infer uncertainty, Tetris. You must be reading it differently, but I don't see it as telling people "we're not sure about this." And quite frankly, if we are going to tell them that, might as well not tell them at all. --Karlos 23:43, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Sigh .... here we go again. Black - white - GREY .... I think if there is quite clearly a pattern then we should point it out, because it makes it easier for the user to understand that ANet did not scatter then skills randomly. Anyway ... I will check through the list one by one ... 469 skills ... and if I find more than 5 exceptions from the rule I will agree that the "rule of thumb" should be removed. Gimme an hour or two. :) --Tetris L 23:57, 20 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Okay, this will take a while. Looks like I opened a can of worms. I checked only through the skills of Sir Betran and found errors in the acquisition details of almost every skill. I am willing to go through each and every skill and update them all, but if I do this, I want to discuss the horrible cumbersome design of the acquisition section first. I will post in GuildWiki_talk:Style_and_formatting/Skills tomorrow and suggest a table layout. Tomorrow. --Tetris L 03:15, 21 Sep 2005 (EST)