User talk:Quizzical12571

Hi there, just letting you know, the general practice on GuildWiki when adding stuff to talk pages is to add to the bottom. Usually the higher soemthing is it means it's older so it doesn't really get noticed by the regulars (in reference to http://gw.gamewikis.org/index.php?title=Talk:Guide_to_defeating_Magni_the_Bison&curid=129708&diff=1072691&oldid=1072690&rcid=1122074 ) -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 00:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Aurora Glade
You rewrote a portion of the bonus to say "...don't kill the runner. That mames another White Mantle become the runner, and shortens your distance advantage over them" (or something like that). Previously, there had been a strategy where you simply killed only the runners, and eventually that let you kill off all the White Mantle (or have someone sneak around and steal a crystal/assassinate Demagogue).

In your testing, did you find that this no longer works...or is it simply too inefficient? (T/C) 20:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It has always worked for me. Although I just nuked the living hell out of them all, rather than 'just' the runners... Savannah Heat owns so hard in the Jungle --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If the party stays back and you never kill a runner, you should never have to fight more than three white mantle at a time, and the runner will also be able to help out with the fighting quite a bit. Henchmen (not even heroes) can handle that just fine on their own.  If you kill a runner, another party comes out sooner, and you could have to fight more mobs at once or (if the runner is killed after capturing placing his crystal) have less time to run crystals.  I'm not entirely sure how the AI works when runners are killed, but my experience is that unless there are only a few white mantle left, killing the runner tends to make bad things happen.  In easy mode, you can get away with it, but in hard mode with just henchmen and heroes, it could be trouble.


 * Some have advocated killing the runner to prevent it from capturing the thorn pedestal in the first place. If you're relying on killing the runner to prevent a thorn pedestal from being captured and then don't quite kill it in time, that could lead to outright mission failure.  If the thorn pedestal you're defending is not the only one you hold, then it's one closer to the white mantle base, giving you far less time to kill each group.  This also tends to draw the extra abbots out to come heal sooner, which can be a problem for just henchmen even in easy mode.  Furthermore, if you're attacking the runner, you're effectively fighting four mobs at once rather than only three.


 * The white mantle running AI certainly changed between when I originally did the mission back with my Prophecies characters around last February and when I did it with my Factions and Nightfall characters and in hard mode last month. Back then, the white mantle would pick their target when they picked up a crystal, so if they were heading to the northwest capture point, you could capture the northeast one immediately after they picked up their crystal and they would still run all the way to the northwest capture point.  Now they can change their decision on where to run when in the center of the region.  I don't know exactly when the change was made.


 * The mission was reputedly a very hard one. One person in my alliance said that he had done every other mission in the game with henchmen and heroes, and needed only that one to finish his legendary guardian title.  With the strategy I posted, I only had one failure in my last ten attempts in hard mode (about half of them with only henchmen and heroes), and that one came because someone else was the runner and got confused about where to go.  Furthermore, I was able to do the mission in hard mode with just henchmen and heroes (so I had to be the crystal runner) with no running skills whatsoever.


 * I don't doubt that there could be some other strategy that works just as well. If someone else finds such a strategy and wants to post an additional strategy, that's fine with me.  But anything that involves killing the runner before nearly all of the white mantle are dead would have to be a very different strategy from mine, and would require additional precautions to guarantee that you can kill the runner and deal with more mobs coming out and attacking sooner.  In hard mode, even without killing the runner, the 1:30 that henchmen and heroes get to kill the rest of the group isn't always enough if some extra abbots come early.  Quizzical 22:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's... a... lot... of... text RT | Talk  22:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comprehensive response. It confirms what I always suspected...killing a runner is what draws out those additional "Guard" groups. That is the only way I've ever done the mission, and yep, it was always a tough fight...you'd get massive backlogs and the runner would almost slip through. When I read your strategy I was confused because you said you only fight 3 or so Mantle at once, whereas I usually fought more like 5 or 6.


 * On the other hand, using a snare like, uh, Snare is still useful for slowing down the runner and giving you much additional time. White Mantle have no condition removal...If they also had no hex removal, then Crippling Anguish under Mantra of Persistence is also good since it's ranged. I suppose you could take Extend Conditions. Iron Mist / Binding Chains work too.


 * By the way, having two runners makes this very easy as well. One person takes a crystal and runs to the northwest; the other waits right next to your pedestal. Once the White Mantle capture the northwest one, the waiting person takes the new crystal and heads northeast, while the first runner comes back. After you take the northeast, the second runner captures the close pedestal, and you win. You may need speedbuffs for this, I'm not sure. But it is very safe. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Dzagonur Bastion
Thanks for cleaning it up yourself. I've been too slow, I know...I did a bit more Wikifying of links and capitalizing (margonite -> Margonite for instance) and it looks very nice now. (T/C) 20:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)