Talk:Game updates/20070615

This is massive. I had no idea they were gonna introduce all this nonsense. So many things that made me irk with this update...SR, for one. SS price is up, of course, following the SR nerfs. Great. The first Paragon, ahem, "buff" I've seen in a while, though. Too bad it's balanced with another nerf. It's good that they changed Spawning Power to affect more than spirits/minions, makes it more worth the investment. Armor buff cap? Oh god. This could have severe effects on the PvE environment. Lux/Kurz titles are somewhat welcomed. I'm really reluctant with the PvE only skills though. Are they completely necessary? Oh, and I'm glad they fixed the barrage/glyph bug. Spen 19:13, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Signet of Sorrow is fixed! *nails to every necro build*. Now I just need to hit F5 repeatedly to see the PvE only skills, I can't get on GW for a while to check them myself. --[[image:Goteki-45.jpg]] Goteki-45  19:17, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * That thing on the target monitor is terrible. one) how often is that even needed? I have never felt a desire for such a thing and two) It looks like deep wound (not exactly but enough to confuse me about 3 times already). &mdash; &hearts; Jedi &hearts; Rogue &hearts;    19:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I totally agree on that, a simple solution would be to able to switch it's visibility on and off in the user interface, i really hope they do that... Ghostun 23:47, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I've always used "target self" to stop targetting anybody else. Hadn't heard of anybody complain about before. Dustin 19:53, 15 June 2007 (CDT
 * I'm hoping the retarget thing happens in instances when you're casting a long spell (ie. Meteor Shower w/ no glyphs) and your target dies, putting you on a new target. (You could press ESC, but you'd lose the energy and get exhaustion and you'd have to spend another 5 seconds casting it again) Zaboomafoo 23:09, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Your skill bar is now cleared whenever you change your secondary. I really hope this is a bug, it's bloody annoying. Copperthorn 19:55, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Kurzick skills Skills from the Friend of the Kurzick line. Kamer
 * You're late, Already documented here. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:37, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, he left that comment JUST before the last few were added here, I believe. GWiki ftl. Spen 20:38, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Check the timestamp in the history tab ... they were fully listed here a few minutes before his post. GWiki ftw! --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:41, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Bah, ok. GWiki ftw. Spen 20:45, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Alas, I don't have a rank 1 faction title, or I'd grab and upload the skill icons for those. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   20:47, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ah! It appears that the Kurzick/Luxon skills are the same for either side except for the icons. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   00:10, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

DoA here I come! Paragons suddenly jumped up the PvE rankings by 300%. (referring to its new Sunspear skill :P) --Xiu Kuro 23:00, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

June 16 h00.25 CET
They have uploaded the skill-balance. i dont know about anything else as i just do pvp. --82.55.172.36 18:15, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Stoneflesh and SR are as in the dev update thingy 86.148.221.149 18:26, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Soul Reaping does give you energy, even if you are at full energy when something dies, but I don't know yet if it counts as one of the three times... since they said it would not.
 * Confirmed. Decapitate is a half-second cast, many Mesmer interrupt spells (the main ones, Power Spike, Leak, and Drain, and maybe a couple others) affect Chants, and Beguiling Haze has longer Daze.  GD  18:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * How do you know? Falafel 18:36, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Whenever I change my secondary class, all of my skills are wiped from my skill bar (primaries as well as secondaries). I've confirmed this with a few guildmates. Anyone else experiencing this? - Oser 18:37, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Me and guildmates too MetaleX 19:36, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

New NPC's
Anyone noticed the new NPCs in capital cities? Like the Minister of Maintenance? He doesn't do anything ATM...24.148.188.18 19:03, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Preparation for Chapter 4 perhaps? I know its a bit early, but if earthquakes are supposed to roll across all the major cities, surely a Minister of Maintenance would be someone involved, and perhaps able to give a quest sending one into the disaster zone... -Damasus 19:45, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

New Bug
If you change yor secondary profession you lost your build, at least this happened us in Hidden city in elona. --Crigore 19:50, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Armor Stacking nerf
Why was this done? Does it mean you can't combine Dolyak Signet, Watch Yourself and Shields Up anymore? Then my The Deep Steelwall tank-build for W/A is much less effective -.- *grrrr* Why are they always ruining my PvE fun? They nerfed the necro more again ffs. --Birchwooda Treehug 20:01, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, this means you can't stack those skills, you will only recieve the boost from one skill that gives more than +25 (I don't know how they're doing it though, first used counts? highest above +25?) This now means that the only reason you would bring more than one +armour skill is to cover the downtime when one is recharging. (You think you've got it bad? Kinetic armour now doesn't stack with ANYTHING) -Ezekiel 22:56, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm guessing it's the highest currently active skill or effect, which is the case for other stacking caps. -- Gordon Ecker 23:00, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

IDS runs just got harder -_- -Kumdori 22:10, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the skills *do* stack--just the amount of armor they collectively provide has been capped to 25. "Added a cap of +25 to the armor buff when stacking skills....." Still a super pain when it comes to PvE, though. (Looks like I'll NEVER vanquish Snake Dance and/or a 3-Dolyak Master group this way...^-^)I wish they'd figure out a way to balance PvP without screwing up higher-end PvE areas...:( Mllepandora 23:51, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * My saying. Just as they introduced new skills for PvE (Hey isn't the Assa skill imba? Esp. along with Critical Defenses and Critical Strike, and the new Ele skill goes well with Sliver Armor for farming -.- ... so they obviously don't care about imba builds/skils in PvE) they should split the PvP and PvE skill database completely. I'm more the PvE player and always suffer from the 'fk ups' they call 'balancing' *sigh* Esp. since Nightfall is out they've gone crazy. Can only hope the good for GW2 XD --Birchwooda Treehug 14:45, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I liked this nerf.--72.66.13.32 23:27, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Well PvE is looking more or less screwed. 80.193.19.209 08:10, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Err, how on EARTH did you reach that conclusion? This armor stacking nerf screws PvE? That's funny, since I have 10 characters, 9 of them level 20, and a sum total of 1 of them has ever bothered stacking armor bonuses(and that was only for a specific farming build, which I retired once I got my rit to lvl 20 and made him my main farmer), yet all of them do fine in PvE. Sure, it screws a few solo builds, it screws the "Steel Wall" Deep team, and a few other specialty builds, but general PvE play is hardly "screwed". DKS01 08:24, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Ever heard of the DoA and the Obsidian Tank?...we're F-ed. and u know how many people do the DoA?...it's more than a "few specialty builds," it's like 100 teams a day, if not more.Serpent615 12:22, 18 June 2007


 * Point 1-You said PvE is screwed. Last I looked, there is a LOT more to PvE than just DOA. Is your game screwed up somehow and won't let you play anywhere other than DoA? Mine isn't. Point 2-Obsidian tank is ONE SPECIALTY BUILD. Doesn't matter if 10 BILLION teams a day use it, it's still just ONE SPECIALTY BUILD, and thus it, the Deep Steel Wall, the armor stacking farmers, etc are just a few specialty builds, AS I SAID. I didn't say only a few people USED them, just that only a few SPECIALTY BUILDS used them. Read more closely next time FTW. DKS01 00:54, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol... what? there are a rediculous ammount of builds this kills, sure mostly using the same armor stacking skills, but i fail to see the point you're trying to make.-- Thelordofblah 02:04, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No, really, there isn't. It kills a few specific builds, and that's it. And it does NOT "screw" PvE, which that guy claimed above, and that is the point here. Follow the whole conversation next time and maybe then you'll get the point. DKS01 02:37, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The problem is that certain areas of the game appear to only be passable using a tank with massive armor. DOA, The Deep, and other areas might become too difficult for almost all teams which does kill the whole point of even having these areas.  Hell, think about how hard it was to keep the tank alive at times in DOA at times even when he did have all that armor (not to mention a worthwhile stoneflesh aura which is nerfed to crap now).  Heck, just think about ALL the ele armor skills.  They are completely worthless now since none of them stack basically.  The earth attribute is even less viable with this nerf.  This needs to change or at least have the limit increased. *edit* Oh, and about only specialty builds being hurt by this... just consider any build which uses even just two armor boost skills are killed. That is a LOT of builds — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 09:06, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

No reward for previously spent faction?
I'm not in an alliance, so I've only ever spent my Luxon faction on Jadeite; nevertheless I've earned about 512,000+ in my time. It would be really nice if Anet would retroactively apply this toward the "Friend" title... Arshay Duskbrow 01:30, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * gotta say im pretty dissapointed about this as well... I've spent a couple hundred thousand in my time.-- Thelordofblah 02:21, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed. I've earned almost 250k faction, but it's worthless with the current requirement. Why should it matter where I spent my faction? I did the same work as people who spent their faction on an alliance, I should have access to those skills - especially considering that any future faction spent outside an alliance goes toward the title. This is not encouraging... Kil5t3lr 04:13, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Why would anything thing it WOULD be retroactively applied? When they started giving out XP for elite skill captures, they didn't go back and give everyone who'd already captured an elite 5k xp for it. When they made it so skillpoints after level 20 were awarded every 15k XP instead of every 20k XP they didn't go back and give someone who was 30k XP over level 20 an extra skill point. When they changed the way Urgoz/The Deep worked they didn't go back and give everyone who'd alreayd killed Urgoz/Kanaxai a random gold inscriptable item like everyone who does it now gets... Yeah, it'd be nice if it was applied retroactively, but there was no reason to expect it to actually happen, and it shouldn't come as a surprise that it didn't. DKS01 04:50, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm not disagreeing with you, but, to be perfectly accurate, they did compensate for the 15K XP reduction. That said, if any of you has a dry river bed, I can help filling it too with my tears - I dumped my rotting 10K luxon faction to passage scrolls and jade just two days ago :( --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 05:09, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I doubt they could retroactively apply it if they wanted to. They most likely didn't track who traded what for jadeite or amber, it was a simple "subtract faction, spawn jadeite" script. Now, it's probably the same thing, but "subtract faction, add to title progress, spawn jadeite". It's the same as all of the other things they couldn't retroactively grant. They have no way of knowing who did what before they implemented the system. --Valentein 08:38, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Go to your H menu and hover over the ammount of Luxon/Kurzick faction you have, it shows the total ammount of faction you have spent. Therefore they would easily just have all spent faction count towards the title.--67.182.141.97 15:01, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It says "you have earned" not "you have spent". But maybe they could do somthing someday even if we all doubt it. §: TůζipVõrζąx Talk 15:25, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * just wish they did this sooner...64.228.195.54 02:15, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't see why we should get credit for the faction we have earnt but lost by showing allegiance to the other side. And how could we possibly tell how much went each way? -- Dashface [[Image:Dashface.png]] 19:50, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Press H and hover over the Kurzick/Luxon symbol...--NYC Elite 09:35, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * But that count includes faction that has been lost due to a show of allegiance to the other side. Which is why I think ANet made the (in my eyes regrettable) decision to not include faction previously donated for materials or scrolls. RossMM 18:34, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Green Numbers for PvE/Title-based skills
I'm pretty sure the sunspear ones deal with rank 1 to rank 8. You can't go beyond rank 8 in normal mode, right? Solis 02:07, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * In fact, most of the data gathered so far suggests that green numbers correspond to ranks 1..9. However, Vampirism doesn't seem to fall in line and values are lined up with 1..8. Smells of fish. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 03:34, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Nevermind. The deal was, some anon who had rank 9 saw different numbers on their skillbar and went ahead and modified the maximums in every skill template. I reverted all of them. 1..8 is correct. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 05:11, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That would be 0..9, dumbass. --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 20:22, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You really are a dumbass. It's 0..8. Now go to bed already.--[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 20:23, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW, before somebody NPA-slaps me, I would like to clarify that I was referring to myself as dumbass, not anybody else. Yes, I do that sometimes when it's 4 o'clock in the morning and I'm still awake with only 5 hours before I have to go to work. WTB life.--[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 20:26, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Jesus Christ. Spen 16:25, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Hey! I just noticed that I had almost bracketed my last comment between "by the way" and "want to buy". It's like symmetrical quotation marks rendered with letters. If only I didn't have that "life" back there. Oh wait. I already did not. –Ishmaeel[[Image:lazyeyes.png]] ping/peek 18:31, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Different Icons. What to do?
The skills you get from the Kurzicks are the same in effect, as the ones from the Luxons, but they have different icons, and are probably considered different skills altogether by the game (like the Factions duplicates). Do we: &mdash; Poki#3, 02:43, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Use 1 article (Elemental Lord) and the image will be 2 icons "glued" together? Might break tome templates.
 * Use 1 article (Elemental Lord) and change the skill template to support 2 images in this exception.
 * Use 2 articles ("Elemental Lord (Kurzick)" and "Elemental Lord (Luxon)") and have a disambiguation page at "Elemental Lord"? I think this is the best one...
 * I was wondering exactly that. I think we could just stick the two of em together in one image. I definitely don't like how it is now (a random one for each). But won't they give us the icons in a fresh fan kit? Maybe they have a plan. idk. &mdash; ♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 23:11, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm a bit broke on faction right now, so I'd be grateful if you satisfied my curiosity. How do they work? Do you actually have two copies of those? Can you equip both of them? Are names exactly the same? --[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 05:21, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't even have one Friend title _^_ From the info I got, the name and effect is the same. Icon different. Don't know if you can have both. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 07:03, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Tomb of the Primeval King
Briefly: I really, REALLY hope they don't get rid of Tombs...HoH should stay where it belongs...Silver40596 10:52, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * 1. There are no Merchant NPC on tomb after the first update, not yet fix in the update 2.
 * 2. New NPC "Rocius [Priest of Balthazar]", he doesn't do anything.
 * 3. New NPC "Sigil Trader"
 * -- Gusnana1412 11:24, 16 June 2007 (GMT+1)
 * If I'm not mistaken, this also ever happen in the past when we lost Merchant in Tomb -- Gusnana1412 09:21, 17 June 2007 (GMT+1)
 * Forgot to login >.< -- Gusnana1412 09:45, 17 June 2007 (GMT+1)

I really hope I'm reading into this the wrong way, because if I'm right, it looks like ANet is planning to move HoH back to Tombs >.>... possibly due to the fact that Abaddon is now dead, since it was obviously him corrupting it in the first place? --69.143.6.8 16:37, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Nah. The isles are better since PvP is centered in one place. I do hope however, that they'll do SOMETHING to the Tombs. Like a Chest with inscribeable drops like in Cantha or something like that. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 17:43, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Enemy count bug?
I do NOT have Hard Mode unlocked. However - in Melandru's Hope at least - I am getting an enemy kill count (I got 15 in chat log and 25 as a popup). Is this some bugged implementation of a count from hard mode, or is it something quest-related I'v emissed? Or even linked to the shiney new Blessing update? 91.84.127.120 06:25, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Blessing.--[[Image:lazyeyes.png]]Ishmaeel .ping ; .peek; 06:32, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh ok. Any bonus for getting a certain number, or is it just to keep track of how much Faction I'll have earned? Or was it there before this update? 91.84.127.120 06:36, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You get a large bonus for killing a boss, but you have to kill 25 normal enemies of that kind to get it. [[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]] 11:02, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Kurzick / Luxon Blessing Faction Cap
There is a cap on the amount of Faction one of these blessings can get you. I stopped getting Faction after 132 kills, so I'd hazard a guess at a cap of 1,000 Faction per blessing. (132 * 5 = 660 Faction, plus 3 bosses gives ~1000 which sounds about right). 91.84.127.120 07:53, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No, there seems to be some other restriction. Got a fresh blessing and some mobs are giving me Faction, some aren't. 91.84.127.120 07:57, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Noticed same thing, at specific point suddenly stopped getting Faction after kills. This was solved by killing some more mobs. Weird thing, i guess it's some kind of minor bug that happens occasionally. Kielus 08:21, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I belive nothing under level 20 will faction--Diddy Bow 12:45, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

New Spawn?
Just noticed new spawn of stone monsters near the three bosses (Stonereap - Ele - Monk), each boss has around 5-7 mobs nearby. Imho it's to stop soloers, though have no clue if that was part of older update, if so sorry for bothering. Thx if could anyone else confirm that Kielus 10:04, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I think it is, since there were a ton of bots there around 2 weeks ago...Serves them right.Silver40596 10:54, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * There are a ton of Bots there *Now*. I also noticed the larger spawn, which is clearly no trouble with a full team, but the 55's aren't going to like it.  I think I can adapt to it, but I'm a human. --67.172.14.127 20:05, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I dont know what you both are talking about.....i just 55ed stonereaper and zarnas right after reading this...easy as always with no noticable impact on farming.....dunno how to sign.....16 june 2007

Camera
Is anyone else having some difficulties rotating the camera properly? This update seems to have changed the way it works for my pc, not sure why. It's very annoying. - Krowman (talk • contribs)  01:32, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm having a very similar issue, except in my case, everything is messed up. I've previously been running the game 1280x768 with full everything at a constant 40 fps. Now I am lucky to hit 20 in town. Something is very messed up here, a few alliance members faced the same fate. DavimusK 19:58, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

New NPCs
For GW:EN, maybe? Only thing that gives me that idea is the "Minister of Maintenance" possibly surveying openings caused by the earthquakes, or whatever it is. --Heelz 02:09, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Guild Hall
Something I noticed after the update: sometimes, when I would log out of a character, it would say, instead of "Guild Hall", "Isle of Meditation" as my location at the character selection screen. When I logged in to that character, it would automatically move me to where I was before I was in the GH. Anyone else notice this? - Ayumbhara  03:39, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It was like that long before this update. Log on to another char, your first char will be at the guild hall when you log (back) onto him. - Auron 03:43, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, but the OP is saying that it's saying the name of the Guild Hall instead of just "Guild Hall" at the selction screen. &mdash; [[Image:Fin_sig.gif|User:Kyrasantae]] kyrasantae   04:07, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Plus they said it sends them to the location they were last at, not the GH. I myself have been experiencing it randomly. It's quite annoying. Capcom 13:23, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Ghost Forge Insignia bug
Just noticed: there is some kind of a bug with Ghost Forge Insignia in one of these latest two updates. It looks OK in the store, but the Ghost Forge insignia already on my old Rit armor is now saying "+15 armor while affected by a Chant". There's certainly a bug here, and if the Chant thing is correct, all my Rit armor just turned into trash. Issa Dabir 10:48, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's strange. Maybe it'll get fixed soon. Until then, now you have an excuse to team with Paragons? xD --NYC Elite 11:25, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Vocal was Sogolon ftw :P Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 11:39, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Revenge of Sogolon! XD &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 14:53, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Been saving a couple of Ghost Forge Insignia for my rit (and eventual Rit hero.) Thanks for pointing that out. I went to check them real quick, and sure enough, they now read "chant" instead of "weapon spell." Has anyone been able to determine if this is just a simple typo-type bug (meaning there's been no actual change to the skill, just the wording is off)? Since IMO, changing the insignia's effect would make it nearly worthless, maybe A-net is choosing to classify weapon spells as a type of chant instead of them being in thier own category? (There are a lot of bonuses to that option...)--Mllepandora 19:49, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I believe this is ArenaNets answer to Ritspike. By reducing the duration of Weapon of Warding and requiring the bonus armor to be activated by chants only, it makes them easier to kill while still being viable as a team. At the very least, they can include a Paragon to fuel their energy and health. --Kale Ironfist 21:00, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Armors typically don't give bonus to a profession based on a type of skill that profession doesn't have. I would say it is a bug, be it typo or even functionality. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 21:21, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Reducing the duration, but raising it with a higher level in Spawning Power. Am I incorrect? Spen 22:52, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Weapon of Warding was also nerfed that way to prevent abuse by secondary Ritualists. --Kale Ironfist 23:02, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If it *was* a nerf or an attempt at balancing Ritspike, I'd think A-net would confirm it as such, just like they did with the Spawning Power/Weapon spells. Guess we wait and see...=)--Mllepandora 01:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No....rt spike is pretty dead. I am sure its just a bug. Readem (talk *contribs ) 01:52, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

No change to this problem in the 18/06/2007 update. Issa Dabir 05:33, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Has anyone actually done any testing yet to see if it's an actual effect or just a textual bug? DKS01 08:29, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I just wanted to go and test this, but they seem to be unchanged in pvp? I don't know if the bug was fixed, but there seems to be no problem now Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 06:41, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I just confirmed this in the isle of the nameless against the master of lightning's lightning orb and ghostforge insignia. With a shout he hit me for 123 damage and with a weaponspell he hit for 100. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|19px]] 06:47, 20 June 2007 (CDT)