Talk:Guild Wars Nightfall


 * /Archive - The deletion debate
 * /Archive 2 - up to the announcement that it is the title of Campaign 3.
 * Talk:Campaign Three/Archive - discussion of the new campaign up to the announcement of the title.

No official information... There is now!
Taken from here.


 * In a press release issued today, you can read details from ArenaNet and NCsoft about the third game in the Guild Wars saga. Guild Wars Nightfall will present two new professions—the Dervish and the Paragon—and will offer “a Guild Wars game unlike any players have seen before.” And in the same announcement, you can read plans for an exciting PvP event, scheduled to begin July 28th. Find details in today’s press release.

I don't know how to comment text in Wiki's, please forgive me. --SK  09:22, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * also - the news just showed up on the american site ST47 09:57, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Cool! :D I think it will be arab/area related, dervish comes from there. Stuck on what a paragon is :/ &mdash; Skuld  09:24, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Dervish - holy scythe wielding warrior
 * Paragon - guardian angel of the elonian people

New melee and defence profession? sound familier? xD I hope in chapter 4 they have more casters &mdash; Skuld  09:28, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Some pic's of the new professions here --SK [[Image:Monk-icon-small.png]] 09:42, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * nice stuff ST47 09:56, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Any pics of the scythes yet? Not that I'm curious or anything. I'm just nosy. --Black Ark 10:07, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Holy warriors and guardian angels? I sense Holy Damage abilities. I hope the scythes are 2d4 with a x4 crit modifier. :P -Gares 13:10, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Scytes are ooning this game want to do preview right now! -- Tomoko


 * Hey some new info is out from m here
 * When a corrupt ruler summons the power of an outcast god and infects the land with a creeping darkness, it will take a band of heroes to save Elona. Guild Wars Nightfall is the roleplaying game gamers have been waiting for – an intimate, heroic experience where your decisions shape your personal game experience and your customizable party becomes an extension of your character. In this third campaign in the award-winning Guild Wars® universe, this is Guild Wars® like you've never seen before.
 * • Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice.


 * • A new game type, Hero vs. Hero Battles will allow a single player to participate in PvP with hero NPCs.


 * • Two new professions: The Dervish, a scythe-wielding holy warrior and The Paragon, the guardian angels of the Elonian people.


 * • 4 new guild halls.


 * • 300 new skills.


 * • 250 Quests, 55 explorable areas, 20 new Story Missions, and three new Challenge Missions.


 * • Peerless online RPG action with no monthly fees! Minimoose 19:05, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * It is well known that game retailers lie about release dates, but they don't make up features. So I think we can trust that the info was given to EBgames by NCsoft and can be considered official. I wouldn't mind putting this into the article. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 01:37, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * We should follow the same rules as before, leave it here until it is confirmed by ANet. --Rainith 01:39, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I think we may be following it a bit too strictly, given that it says what the article has is subject to change and preliminary. Even Wikipedia has more Nightfall information then GuildWiki at this point which seems silly. --Siberian 12:00, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * It's because they contain speculation, guesses, unconfirmed content, etc; while we've kept to factual confirmed content. In this case, it's a shortcoming of Wikipedia's content, not of ours. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 12:11, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * °Sigh° Off course, strictly speaking you're right. But it's so tempting ... :/ --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 01:45, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I don't think there would necessarily be anything wrong with linking to that page in the article (under the links section) and stating that there is a tentative list of features there. Some might disagree with me as that would be linking to a commercial site.  --Rainith 01:50, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, the fact that it's a game retailer's website makes me reluctant to link there. I'd rather not give them free advertising. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:31, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Well Guild Wars Online has the story on their website, we can always link to them. ^_^ ~ Zero rogue x 03:31, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * So has GwGuru. Isn't it ironic that the "Elite" fansites aren't quite as strict as we are when it comes to publishing "unofficial" information and copyrighted images? And ANet doesn't seem to mind. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:55, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * That's because this came from Anet/NCSoft's marketing department anyway --Siberian 07:59, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Note the post by Gaile Gray here. While she doesn't clearly say that the information about the game features given by EBgames is wrong she clearly says "Wait to hear it from ArenaNet.". So we should do that. Accordingly, I removed the features given by EBgames from the article again. -- 07:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And again. --68.142.14.19 13:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Trust me, retailers do come up with features, and I love how GuildWiki only has information you can trust. &mdash; Galil  16:43, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

East of The Crystal Desert?
It says that the Paragon was gaurdian angel of the Elonians, and it is rumored by many sites that Nightfall is North African themed, so maybe its actually a desert located to the east of the desert.
 * Um, why do you think it'd be on Tyria as opposed to being on a new continent? THE Crystal Desert is a special desert that no human civilization can endure, which must obviously be quite a different environment from the north-african themed region (and I'm guessing Nightfall will have at least three regions, if not 4 like Factions) where Nightfall will take place.  They should be two different types of deserts. - 21:41, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The Prophecies worldmap doesn't show the edges of the Tyrian continent. It's entirely possible that Nightfall is set in another part of the Tyrian landmass, east or southeast of the Crystal Desert, north or northeast of the Charr homeland, west of the Maguuma Jungle and the Mursaat homeland or northwest of Giant's Basin. Eurasia's a single landmass, but it's still considered three continents (or two continents and a subcontinent), and it's also connected to Africa by a narrow isthmus. -- Gordon Ecker 22:25, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree with your point, which is all the more reason to challenge the original point. Both being deserts is too weak a link IMHO to draw a special connection, considering one environment is completely hostile to human civilization and the other is probably going to be at least the size of a nation (with probably over a thousand years of history too).  That's like saying "Campaign 105482, which has a rainforest theme, might be just south of the Echovald Forest", in an alternate reality where the Echovald forest has always been petrified since its existence as opposed to only turning petrified by the Jade Wind.  The difference between the Crystal Desert and a desert where at least a nation lives on, to me is as different as the Echovald Forest vs the Maguuma Jungle. - 04:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Eh, I would have preferred this to be expanding Tyria and Cantha, instead of introducing, yet, another half-explorable continent. I mean, who wouldn't want to go to Orr? &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:31, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Someone who can't breathe underwater. --68.142.14.77 23:40, 18 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The guy in the Dragon Festival was saying that the Crystal Desert was in Elona. Since this is a most recent update, I think ANet have changed their minds from their original design of the Crystal Desert (in my opinion). I think the idea that the new place will be east of the present Crystal Desert is a fair assumption. Why a new map? Because each chapter has it's own map that's connected to other chapters by the boat icon. Maybe they'll get around that, but I think they won't. --Karlos 06:27, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Then that guy was misinformed. Damn those Krytan sailors, spreading their lies and diseases to those poor, gullible Canthans. From what I gathered, the Elonians just tried to reach Ascension in the Crystal Desert, and failed miserably. That means they just made it to the desert - or parts of it, anyhow - but it doesn't necessarily imply that they were were from the desert originally. Having said that, the new designs do look fairly desert-savvy, the Dervish in particular. Not too certain about the Paragon, but that particular design smacks more of a remote Egyptian look to me. --Black Ark 08:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

There is no chance that Elonia is directly adjacent to the Crystal Desert, at least not on the same map. For technical reasons (because each campaign is stand-alone) each campaign must be a separate continent with a separate map. ANet decided to link all these campaigns by ports. You cannot ride a camel from Elonia to Tyria, you must travel by ship. -- 06:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
 * While I agree that the most likely solution will be to link to a 100% new map via the ship travel icon, there are other travel options besides going by ship. For one, inserting a new teleporter that only works for someone who owns Nightfall, or which only transports someone who has been magically transformed/cleansed in some way.  While even more unlikely, they could even have some degree of overlap in the existing crystal desert by inserting quests or missions that are only accessible by characters that have completed a Nightfall-only task. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 09:01, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Maybe ANet will establish some additional link from Elonia directly to the Crystal Desert, but that can't be the only link to Tryia, because in that case Elonian characters could only reach Tryia, Kryta and Maguuma by a Droknar run (in reverse direction). A ship connection to Lion's Arch is a must. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:14, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * You know? I hope the Nightfall campaign will only be accessible from the Crystal Desert. Preferably from the Dragon's Lair, or at the very least, after ascension. It disgusts me, the way people get their pre-teen-level characters rushed to LA and then, without a hitch, hop on the boat to Kaineng to get max-level armour crafted. Then, it's a walk in the park with two fingers up their nose to just accumulate quests and get to level 20 in the span of a day, because of the powerful henchies (eight of `em, right off the bat) and ludicrously easy high-EXP quests at their disposal. I don't want that for Nightfall. If, hypothetically, you get a quest from some NPC to get your Canthan/Tyrian character to the lands of Elonia, I want this NPC to take a good long look at your character, and just flat-out tell you you're too weak to join the fun if you're not level 15 or so. Yes, Mhenlo could've done that for Factions. He should have. And since NPC's possess the uncanny ability to see other character's levels (see also Yijo Tahn), it would actually have made sense for him to tell you to get some more experience under your belt before sending your pitiful level 2 character to deal with Shiro and his plague. I'm sure I'll end up seeing more rushed nooblets than I can tolerate in Nightfall, but I want them to at least suffer through something terrible and unavoidable like ascension first. And I hope Dopple and/or Glint will make them bleed. --Black Ark 18:05, 23 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I hate the way there's no skills quests except for the very start in Factions. In Prophesies you can get run from Lion's Arch to the Crystal Desert (or a Droks run) but your character will be missing so many skills, skills that can be obtained for free by doing the skill quests so you feel inclined to go back and go back and do them. In Factions I don't even know what the point of questing is in it, you just get lots of XP for quests...woo hoo, pointless! --Xasxas256 18:25, 23 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yup. You could argue that you fight your way through to different zones in order to buy new skills there, but that doesn't fly with me. Anet, it's not going to kill you guys to scrap a few of the multi-thousand EXP-quests, and replace them with skill-quests instead. It doesn't matter if those skills aren't top of the line, but at least give us a reason to explore your world besides a vanity-title. I like unlocking skills, even skills I may never use; and I like to do so by the sweat of my brow. I heard through the grapevine that Nightfall will follow a different branch of what GW has to offer (as opposed to the strong PVP/competitive gameplay from Factions); I'd love to see this one be more PVE-oriented. One way of doing that is what you said - add quests that may cause people to feel inclined to back-track for, or in general, to stray the beaten path and visit remote quest-givers. That was, and is, still what I liked best about Prophecies, damnit. --Black Ark 01:35, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I think they should bring back skill gems in the form of customised quest reward items (or maybe just a number in the hero window next to skill points) that can be spent as credits to get free (no gold or skill point cost) skills from trainers. Prophecies skill quests give you 2 skills each, but they don't give you any choice in those skills (except for the SoC quests), Factions quests give you more choices, but they generally only give you, at most, a fifth of a skill worth of experience and a quarter of a skill worth of gold, this would be a balance between the two systems. On second thought, they could just have some or all of Nightfall's skill quests outside of the campaign's starting area give signets of capture, which would be a lot simpler to implement. I'd certainly backtrack, do a quest and then hunt down and cap a boss to save 1 platinum.
 * Anyway, I don't see a problem with requiring characters to be Ascended, Weh no So or the Elonian equivalent as a pre-requisite for the intercontinental travel quests, in fact based on the pre-release Factions Faq it appears that Ascension was originally intended to be a pre-requisite for those quests. I'd dislike the change, but I'd be okay with it since I was expecting the ascension pre-requisite when I bought Factions. That said, anyone who can go Lion's Arch to Kaineng Center (or from LA or Kaineng Center to the Elonian capitol) owns at least 2 campaigns, and I think it's safe to assume that most PvE players who own two campaigns have played through most or all of one of the campaigns before buying the other, rather than buying both at the same time before they were even sure if they would like Guild Wars (although there are some exceptions, I bought Diablo 2 and the Lord of Destruction expansion at the same time). -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * New map? Definitely. Accessible by ship? It pretty much has to be. A new continent? Not necessarily. The western edge of the Nightfall map could match up with the eastern edge of the Prophecies map, separated from central Tyria by nearly impassable mountains and desert so everyone travels by ship. There could be a desert region with wurms, scarabs and devourers in the southwest (probably with one or more huge rivers running through it like Egypt or Mesopotamia), a mountainous region with Charr in the northwest and pretty much whatever terrain they want in the other two thirds of the map. I'm not saying it's necessarily the case, I'm just saying that it's possible. -- Gordon Ecker 20:18, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * According to EBGames.com
 * When a corrupt ruler summons the power of an outcast god and infects the land with a creeping darkness, it will take a band of heroes to save Elona. Guild Wars Nightfall is the roleplaying game gamers have been waiting for – an intimate, heroic experience where your decisions shape your personal game experience and your customizable party becomes an extension of your character. In this third campaign in the award-winning Guild Wars® universe, this is Guild Wars® like you've never seen before. With more than two million copies sold worldwide, Guild Wars® is the award-winning epic roleplaying game that revolutionized online gaming with its free gameplay.
 * There is also information here describing new play style (custom NPC Henchmen)
 * now i understand this might just be some BS to sell some pre-orders, but they can't possibly just make this stuff up, i'm sure ANet provided them with some insight into what the game will be about.--Skammich 23:08, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
 * EB/Gamestop doesn't make stuff up for their listings outside of release dates. They have too many products to list to manage to craft fake features for them and they'd just take a bunch of heat from the publisher/developer/players for doing so.  Whatever they post comes straight from NCSoft/Anet marketing and should be regarded as 'official' as Gamespot. --Siberian 07:38, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I agree they are too busy to make things up on their own. However, (with respect to features) they might took the liberty to "translate" the list of features provided to them, into what they think sounds more exciting and more attention-grabbing.  Something can easily get jumbled up in this "translation". - 09:32, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Note Gaile Gray's comment referenced above by Tetris L. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 10:34, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * EB/Gamestop has taken down the page in question. I suspect that they got slapped for spreading crazy rumours, leaking information or a combination of the two. Believable skill, quest, mission, area and guild hall counts can easily be made up based on previous campaigns. That only leaves the one line plot overview, and the only information in there that wasn't revealed or strongly hinted at either at E3 or during the Dragon Festival was the 'corrupt ruler' bit, which is a pretty common RPG villain archetype. The only parts that are really questionable are the customisable personal henches and the arena battles with said henches, Which I suspect is a proposed feature that marketing started advertising before there was a final decision. As for this talk of an outcast god ...
 * I'm gonna' sing the Dhuum song now! -- Gordon Ecker 04:00, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm 99% sure that the info wasn't made up by EBgames. It simply makes no sense. I'd say it was given to them by NCsoft. It just wasn't meant to be released yet. Somebody at either NCsoft or EBgames goofed and leaked it. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:15, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * (custom NPC Henchmen) "G-Gwen? What are you doing here? And... why in the hell are you using Frenzy!?" --Black Ark 01:48, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

From the new Scribe on the official site:
 * Kourna borders the vast Crystal Desert, and thus depends on a man-made irrigation system that brings water from the magnificent Elon River.

So if we know what is west of the Crystal Desert (the water) and what is north (the Shiverpeaks) then Elona is either south or east of the desert. The scribe also mentions Turai Ossa in the same paragraph. --Rainith 17:27, 3 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, Vabbi is north of Kourna, so the Crystal Desert is more likely to be west as opposed to north of Kourna. - 19:02, 3 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Possibly in Nightfall, they discover the world is actually round, and find a sea route to Elona instead of traversing the impassable expanse of the Crystal Desert? -- Sunyavadin 13:34, 7 August 2006 (BST)

Frequency of new campaign release
Am I the only one annoyed that this is coming out so soon? I have barely gotten out of the big city in Factions and now they're foisting another campaign on me? I know I don't have to buy it, but it's still kind of irritating. --130.179.170.102 14:57, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, this is sort of how Guild Wars compensates for not having a with pay-per-month subscription. If you think about it, a $50-60 new game/expansion every 6 months averages to $8-10 per month. Only, it's much more flexible since it's a one time pay and you aren't forced to buy the new expansions if you don't want to. After a few expansions it will be pretty easy to see the pattern (how new profs are introduced, new skills, more skills for core, new map, etc.) so you might not have to buy all of them but buy only ones that interest you. Just what I think of it. --Vortexsam 16:10, 19 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Heh, the news about Nightfall has just made me play the first two chapters more, in the hope that I'll finish everything I feel like doing before it comes out. Must... get... every skill... in the game... &mdash;Aranth 23:46, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

The frequency of new campaigns (new areas!) is ok - but I don't like the new classes. I don't like assassines and ritualists, i prefer the classic classes. And now again 2 new classes, phew! ---Imoen
 * Fortunately, nobody's forcing you to play the new classes. Me, I like to see a bit of variety. I may hate Assassins and the people playing them, but they and the Ritualists sure do break up the scenery. And I certainly like that. --Black Ark 08:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah I dont have to play them, but i must understand them and their skills to compete in pvp. ---Imoen [[Image:Necromancer-icon.png|16px]]
 * Agree with you Imoen. New classes coming out every 6 months or so is gonna hit gameplay quality HARD. So many A/Rt running around in TA,RA and then A/Mo Rt/A .. Why cant Anet just make a new expansion with more type of PvP (like they added AB). But no new classes please!!  Robin of Glory  [[image:Energy_Surge.jpg|20px]] 12:50, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yup, they shouldn't add two new professions every 6 months. It messes up both PvP and PvE. This is one more reason for me NOT to play with anything other than henchmen. (And even choosing the freaking henchmen is made difficult now with the million options. : --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 15:22, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Honestly, the new professions aren't such a big deal. What you need to know about ritualists: interrupts totally mess up ritual lord spirit spam.  What you need to know about assassins: They teleport, but only up to radar range max.  They can knocklock you and apply condition stacks, but they need to hit with multiple consecutive attack skills to be effective.  - Ninja Quail
 * I'm okay with a campaign that doesn't have any new professions as long as that means the ~50% of the skills, ~40% of the armor styles and ~40% of the armor stat types that would've normally been reserved for the 2 new professions (based on the numbers in Factions) get divided up among the six core professions. A lot of people would be really angry if the was a new campaign with no new professions and only 150 new skills. -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Whoa, let's not talk crazy now. First let my characters have their scythes and the related profession, then we'll talk about abolishing future classes altogether. In all seriousness, and I think I said this before, the diversity in classes does break up the scenery nicely. Besides, the class-combinations, huh? That's really an interesting point about this game, just mixing and matching new skills/classes until you come up with something that just clicks. There's literally dozens cookie-cutter builds out there, I'm looking forward to seeing some fresh builds. Having said that - skill-quests. No excuses. Cut the (n*1000 EXP)+150 gold + crap, I'm sick and tired of that already. --Black Ark 11:36, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes skillquests! I played in Factions with a Level 20 Ranger who didn't know that he must take the "Charm Animal" skill with him if he wanted his pet to come. I think with skillquest one gets to know the skills better, because you get them one after the other. Second thing I don't like: you get to level 20 by doing the tutorial. Beeing Level 20 is not, like in the prophecies campaign, a sign that one played for a longer time and knows his character. Many people who didn't play prophecies just don't have any clue. --Imoen [[Image:Necromancer-icon.png|16px]] 04:05, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Who was talking about abolishing future professions altogether? I was just talking about the possibility of another chapter focused on the core professions like Prophecies. Especially if the skill design team's having a bit of a dry spell (it happens to the best of us) and can't think up anything better than Paladin who is for some reason an archer rather than a knight and evil robot whose three non-primary attribute lines step on the toes of mesmers, hammer warriors and smiting monks. -- Gordon Ecker 14:27, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

chaos rift demons
Acolyte Norge has some interesting things to say. Also, from Tetris L's translation of this article here, "Then, just for a few seconds, we saw a very different picture: A dark, ravaged world [... ] with the sky unnaturally darkened. "This is where evil comes from." is what Mike [O'Brien] simply states." I strongly suspect that the chaos rift demons are connected to the main villain of Nightfall, who I suspect may be connected with Dhuum (The Fury looks like the Riders of Dhuum). Another possibility is that they're compleetly unrelated to the main plot of Nightfall and are some sort of preview for the next divine realm (probably Lyssa's with all this talk of chaos. Interestingly, the concept art for grasps is in the Prophecies manual (page 111). -- Gordon Ecker 07:51, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * So may the speculations continue ... ;) --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 08:17, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Realm of Lyssa? I'll take one thank you. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 11:35, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes please. Mesmers and Assassins everywhere? 55 THIS, bitch! --Sunyavadin 15:02, 3 August 2006 (BST)
 * It couldn't have assassins everywhere, its a core area. but a area full of mezmeirs whould be fun :) Detraya fullvear

Release date
The Gamespot article mentions a release date. As it's not officially listed by ArenaNet on their site, I'm reading the Gamespot date as an estimated target date. As such, I've removed the recent addition of that info by an anon due to our precedent of C2 and which is listed in this article where "Only dates that are officially announced by ArenaNet will be posted here". --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:24, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Agree. - 15:20, 24 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Leaving it in the discussion is probably acceptable, though ;). Also, can I give Karlos a pre-emptive "I told you so" about the two releases a year? Thanks. ;) Shandy

new press release
on http://www.guildwars.com/events/ingame/gwn-pvppreview.php there is some more information about the attributes for the two new classes. I'll add it to their class pages. --roofle 12:25, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * someone changed the primary attribute from spear mastery to leadership. I'll admit it seems much more likely that leadership would be primary, but according to guildwars.com spear mastery is their primary. --roofle 12:33, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I changed it, because that's what the site says. I know it doesn't make sense... but if that's what they say and it turns out to be wrong change it back once we have in game proof. --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 12:57, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * guildwars.com had the primary incorrectly listed as Spear Mastery. It's been changed there too.Wil 23:14, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Features listed
Features were added with the description "features published on 25th July 2006 by Gaile Gray". Anyone know where this was published? If it can't be documented, will need to revert it (also posted on User_talk:Kyuubi no Youko). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:30, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Update: from the user page referenced above:
 * It is (at least from my info) somewhere on GuildWarsGuru.Com and GWOnline.Net forums, though, this info I gave there is from translated and shortened version (the important things) here (but it is in Czech and you might not understand it ;)
 * Unfortuneately, the Czech site doesn't appear to reference the specific posting. So, can anyone point towards a forum post, or captures of her in game dialogs? --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:42, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * There is a thread about it on GWGuru here. The original is here. It's not really an official announcement. More like hear-say. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:44, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmmm, I was hoping for a post by Gaile Gray herself. Unless we can find captures of the in-game discussion being referenced, then I believe the features are still unconfirmed.  I'm removing them for now, until someone can locate a documented "official" source rather than second hand postings of what a third party remembered being said. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:53, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

OK, as there is Barek, who doesn't want information for which he didn't see certain evidence, "rumors" about Gaile Gray coming to SJM yesterday are written here. Believe it or not, that's just your thing; I believe it, Barek doesn't &mdash; everything will be known just after Barek sees or when Nightfall is released. I would just want to know, why is this sentence: "Previews provided at E3 2006 suggest the use of North African/Middle Eastern settings." written here, when it isn't officially confirmed? And also, do you think Czech is a language of lies? :) &mdash;Kyuubi no Youko 03:41, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * I am not criticizing Czech. Your source, by your own admission, was a translation of another source.  The most likely source was listed as the posting by a forum user on Guru's forums.  That user was posting his recollections of what was said, which may or may not be an accurate recollection.  I am sorry that you have taken it as a personal offence, it was certainly not meant as one.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 03:47, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And that sentence about Africa? &mdash;Kyuubi no Youko 03:51, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Confirmed in a published interview with Jeff Strain (link found in external links section). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 03:54, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Kyuubi no Youko: This is not about what Barek belives or not. At GuildWiki we're pretty strict about posting only "official" information. Specifically, Gaile Gray has complained a few times that what she says ingame is often not quoted correctly or missinterpreted by people. Also, her personal opinion shall not be seen as ANet company statements. That's why we are reluctant to post her ingame chat as "official". The very least we'd like to see is a screenshot of the dialogue, not a summary by somebody else. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 03:56, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Ok, ok, ok... I give up, you are two against me, you seem to have real life with wife and children, and I am still at school and for a long time in future, I will yet be... You won :) &mdash; Kyuubi no Youko 04:29, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Bow down, weakling! ;)
 * Nah, seriously, I hope you don't feel "defeated". Don't take it personal. This is simply how things work in a wiki. Edits are discussed, and very often they are modified or reverted. This happens to everybody here, including me and Barek, on a daily basis. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 04:37, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Who says I feel defeated? At least I have an advertisment for my user page on page read by many people. xD Best would be if Gaile Gray came here and told us what's true. ;)) Though, can I say I won? &mdash; Kyuubi no Youko 04:46, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

New Cinematic?
When browsing in Japanese GW site i found this page. You can see Factions and Prophecies cinematic and... What is on the middle?! Looks like Nightfall cinematic to me. Im trying to download it righ now, but its coming very slooow... So what do you think? Haisku 06:07, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The キャンサ (kyansa) continent that it is on far south of the ティリア (tiria) continent. The incident which then happens before the approximately 200 years. Date flowed, but.... - sounds like the whole shiro incident [[Image:ST47logo.jpg|User:ST47|50px]] (talk) 06:15, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Plus the heading says Campaign2 war-shattered chapter promotion movie[[Image:ST47logo.jpg|User:ST47|50px]] (talk) 06:17, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Darn, I really though it was Nightfall cinematic. But when i checked date in upper-right corner... 2005-12-13 :S I guess I got too excited when I saw those angel wings. Haisku  06:20, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

Churranu Island and Sunspear
I strongly suspect that Churranu Island is Nightfall's equivalent of Shing Jea Island, and that Elona's version of Lion's Arch or Kaineng Center has Sunspear in its name. -- Gordon Ecker 22:28, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Where did you get the names "Churranu Island" and "Sunspear" from? - 22:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Nevermind, the arenas, just saw it. - 22:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

Nightfall trailer
Just watch this. ANet is not gonna like this... Haisku 08:23, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Skales!! &mdash; Skuld 08:33, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Great, someone must have pushed them back a bit too far... --Theeth (talk)   10:43, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * That sure is one giant giant right there at the end. And is it me or does the opening-scenery look a lot like Lion's Arch? --Black Ark 09:12, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Damn. Looks dead now, I just sit at loading and then the little "next" thing pops up in the lower corner.  It doesn't say that it has been removed tho.  --Rainith 20:05, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Still plays for me. I could see ArenaNet demanding that it be removed, though. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:54, 30 July 2006 (CDT)
 * NCsoft showed the trailer at the ChinaJoy expo, and I don't think it was behind closed doors, so they shouldn't be surprised that the video appeared on the internet. The website who published the video (logo shown in the upper left corner of the video) 17173.com is one of the most popular Chinese gaming websites. The video can also be found on their webiste, here. I wasn't able to find out much more, because it's all in Chinese. Maybe PanSola can browse around the website a bit more and look for previously unpublished info.
 * On a side note, I also seem to recognize an Executioner and a Guardian in the video, both near the end. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:11, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Nice... can i have a pair of those shining wings too? --Imoen [[Image:Necromancer-icon.png|16px]] 02:13, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * That crocodile-creature looks ripe for taming. Let's hope that gryphon-thing at least is. --Black Ark 06:29, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

If the video was not shown "behind closed doors" I don't see anything wrong with adding a link to the Nightfall article. The link is all over forums (incl. elite fansite) anyway. -- 02:49, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Previously, my concern was that it could be real or it could be a hoax (lots of images seemed lifted from Prophecies and Nightfall). But, if it is a taped presentation of something AreanaNet actually presented and if it was not shown behind closed doors (ie: no non-disclosure issues), then I see no issue with posting the link.  In that case, it's no different than posting a link to a magazine interview/preview.  I would like to hear from someone who can translate the source site to confirm when and where it was taped, just to be sure. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 08:55, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * PanSola (native speaker of Chinese) checked and told me that according to 17173.com the presentation was "None-revealing-to-outside". See User talk:PanSola. Based on that he removed that link to the video from the article. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:17, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

Has anyone noticed the resemblance between the glowing-winged demon and the Doppelganger in this e3 poster? I'm hoping the sneake creature concept art for Factions (which I'm assuming was intended for Urgoz) also gets recycled for a future campaign. -- Gordon Ecker 00:34, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

paragon + dervish
in some previous books ive read the dervish and paragons are great warriors, where it is evideant that the paragon is like an african hybrid spear hunter, the dervish is apparently a mongal warrior,but both have traits of egyptions, if i hadnt seen this cinematic i would have thought a egyption theme rather than that of an arabic theme.


 * Turai Ossa, his generals and the Ghostly Heroes look like Ayyubid-era warriors based on some of the images in Wikipedia's article on Saladin, although that style of helmet also resembles the Prussian pickelhaube, the pointed helmets worn by Dark Age Huns and the headgear worn by Mediaeval Mongols. The style of one of the two Paragon PvP shields bears a strong resemblance to Zulu shields, having the same shape and appearing to be made of the same material, while the other bears a looser resemblance, and Zulu warriors traditionally used a shield and throwing spear. Paragon armor bears a strong resemblance to ancient Greek and Roman armor, with a few Egyptian touches, and legions also traditionally used javelins and tower shields (along with short swords), while the Greek phalanxes used shields and pikes. As for the Dervishes, I don't think scythes have been traditionally been used as weapons by anyone except by farmers as improvised weapons, the closest weapons I can think of are the Japanese naginata, the Chinese guan dao, the European glaive and the khopesh, which was more like a combination of a sword and a scythe. As for the armour, it looks like it's mostly a combination of Middle Eastern, Indian and Eastern European clothing and European monk and nun outfits. The Elonian starter armor for the core professions (accidentally visible on the PvP character creation screen for a couple hours last Friday) has some pretty clear African influences. -- Gordon Ecker 23:27, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

No way of knowing but...
I'm guessing no content for Ritualist & Assassin? I hope this isn't the case as we're going to end up with loads of "bit" professions in comparison to the core professions (which is already the case even after 1 additional campaign). --Jamie  09:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * The question pops up on forums every few days. I checked all interviews and found that ANet have not explicitely said that Factions professions will get additional skills or armor in Nightfall. All they said is that each campaign will have two unique professions (which can only be created in that campaign) plus the core professions. I guess we won't get an answer to this question in the near time. ANet seem to have imposed a gagging order for anything Nightfall related. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:24, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I wouldn't hold my breath. I honestly do believe that all the content for Ritualist and Assassin will be and stay in Factions (and by extension, that all the content for Dervish and Paragon will only be in Nightfall). The fact is that, while you can transport a character with Ritualist or Assassin as a job to Tyria, Tyrian armour-traders have nothing to offer for non-core classes. Same with quest-givers and skill-trainers, they will only offer you core-skills. The exception being Obsidian armour, I have no doubt that Dervishes and Paragons will get some groovy glass gear as well. But who knows, maybe Anet will open up some more areas in the expansions for added content? There's one hell of a lot left of the Canthan map that's not accessible at the moment. --Black Ark 09:40, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I think it is 100% clear that no content will be added backwards. You won't be able to obtain Dervish armor or skills in Cantha, just like you can't obtain Ritualist stuff in Tyria. But forward, I'm not so sure. It would pretty much kill these professions. At least as primary professions. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 09:50, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Would it be a shame if no future content were added for an expansion, outside of this expansion? Yes. Would it kill the professions? No, I don't think so - well, maybe Assassin and Ritualist, but they're really boring compared to Dervish and Ritualist (smell that, it's bias). Would I like to see added content for the expansions? Of course! Would an absence of such content deter me from buying future expansions? No, probably not. I see where you're coming from though, I'd hate to see Anet just come up with - and subsequently discard - all these cool new professions as one-shot deals. Still, yeah - while they're designing new costumes for the core-classes, they might as well add at least one or two sets for "previous expansion"-classes, for lack of a better term. Or were you also talking about new skills/weapons? --Black Ark 09:59, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I doubt we'll see any new skills for them. The only way they will get new skills is if during some future Campaign they revist Canthan and the ritualist/assassin are the 'new' classes for the campaign again.  Then they'd get new skills.  But right now you'll note that Assassin's and Ritualists have no 'core' skills.  They only have Factions skills. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.120.150.11 (talk &bull; contribs) (06:15, 3 August 2006 (CDT).


 * It'd also be disappointing if someone with Prophecies saw campaign 4, saw the "400 new skills" (75 per new profession + 25 for each core, Factions and Nightfall profession) on the box and then found out they can't use a hundred of them because they're for Factions and Nightfall professions. They'd complain about false advertising and say that they'd rather have those extra 100 skills divided up betwen the core and campaign 4 professions. Sure, people like me would love it, but the more casual players with only one campaign wouldn't, and neither would the poorer playrers (such as teenagers without part-time jobs whose disposable income consists entirely of the portion of birthday and christmas money or college students with budgets so tight they live on ramen and multivitamins). I think a more likely scenario is some kind of skill booster packs. Maybe $10-$15 either online or for a card with a cd key, granting access to 50-75 new skills for each of the two campaign X professions (enough to catch up to the core professions), as well as an outpost with a skill trainer for the non-elite skills and possibly an armor crafter for new armor styles, and a densely packed (like, say, Sorrow's Furnace) skill cap zone for the elite skills and maybe some new greens. I think the most likely timeframe for this is after the release of campaign 3 or 4. -- Gordon Ecker 20:11, 31 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't believe there will be any new Ritualist or Assassin skills in Nightfall. During the brief period following the patch, it was possible to select a Elona skin set for each of the primary classes, and of course the two new ones.  Assassins and Ritualists did not have this option.  Additionally, due to the stand alone campaign nature of the game, it seems to indicate that only the core classes will recieve new skills and be playable in every chapter. - Greven 00:21, 1 August 2006 (CDT)


 * But see, that just makes sense. Ritualists and Assassins are trained at Shing Jea monastery and Shing Jea monastery alone. Adding skills (and weapons) in Nightfall for these non-Core classes would not make sense. Especially weapons - players new to the game might wonder just why they keep finding daggers they can't use, or ask themselves just what "Spawning Power" might mean when they find an odd new staff. But costumes though, yeah. Sure. Let Rt and A join the costume-party in Nightfall, where's the harm in that? --Black Ark 04:00, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Especially weapons - players new to the game might wonder just why they keep finding daggers they can't use, or ask themselves just what "Spawning Power" might mean when they find an odd new staff. Raven Staffs for Ritualists drop in Prophecies all the time.

TOC and leading text
I strongly disagree with the removal of the "introduction" header at the top of the page. Without it, the leading text becomes orphanned from the body of the article - easilly overlooked. Another reason that I dislike leading text before the TOC is related to other articles I've seen; in this case, it's only a couple lines, but there have been times where it can be several paragraphs, which buries the TOC. For consistency accross the site, I feel we should keep the TOC always at the top. FYI: For more discussion on TOC left vs right, see GuildWiki_talk:Style_and_formatting --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 08:48, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

Thumbs up for pickyness!
Boy am I glad we're being picky with "only official content" here. I just visited my Guild Wars retailer to see if they had anything on Nightfall yet (like a pre-order for the bonus pack :p). All they had was a pre-order for the real thing, with the text: "Important: You will need the full version of Guild Wars - Factions to play this game." And it's not the first time they screw up either. When offering Factions, they first wrote the wrong release date. Twice. Both of which I corrected them. Also, the contents of the Collector's Edition was all wrong (it stated the extra character slot). There I corrected them once again, pointing them to the official page and asking them to keep that page in mind before fooling more people. Then shortly after, once again wrong release date and it stated you will need Prophecies to play. So once again I corrected them. Then finally, no more errors. But when the Collector's Edition got delivered to their store, they put them on the shelves, instead of sending them out to those who pre-ordered... I sat and saw the quota go from 20+ to 8 in an hour, then I sent them an angry e-mail, asking how on earth they could sell it in the stores before packaging them for the pre-orders. Suddenly, the quota went down to 0, and my order status said it was packed and on its way. It makes you wonder how they can get any customers at all... Hmm, seems I lost my track..

What I was getting to was; hail the wiki, for real information! &mdash; Galil  16:32, 3 August 2006 (CDT)
 * yes. all hail. I did something like that once to the poor sales attendant [[Image:ST47logo.jpg|User:ST47|50px]] (talk) 16:03, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

Customizable Henchies?
I was looking at Gamestop's website for Nightfall stuff. http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=646706 It said that: "Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice." Excuse me if this has been posted elsewhere.
 * gamestop as been known to make stuff up, and gaile has called them out on it more then once. offical line is "wait and see" --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 19:12, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

The customizable and controllable henchmen ("heroes") are confirmed in the PC Format preview. This preview has been exclusively and officially granted by ANet to PC Format, so I consider this feature officially confirmed and put it back into the article. -- 02:16, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks for stating the source. - 02:58, 7 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Hmm, so the magazine is supposed to be on shelves Aug 10, but somehow it's actually already out yet? - 18:02, 7 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Also, what's the direct quote regarding the customizable and coltrollable "heroes"? From what it sound it could potentially be only big named ppl like Devona, Mhenlo, Nika, Togo etc who might be customizable (I definitely do not consider Lukas to be a "hero").  Ie, they might be special mission/quest NPCs instead of generic henchies. - 20:28, 7 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Subscribers receive the magazine earlier, before it is available at news stands. There is a thread on GWGuru about it here. The magazine isn't much more specific than the "leaked" info that was already posted by EBgames: "Customizable Heroes (party NPCs) that level up with the player, follow player instructions in combat, and use armor, weapons, and skills of the player’s choice". It isn't clear whether these heroes are henchmen or Devona & Co. Does it make a difference anyway? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:30, 8 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Difference: generic henchies are available in every single outpost. Special NPCs might only be there for specific quests/missions.  - 02:43, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

teaser quotes from Taiwan official site
http://guildwars.nctaiwan.com/event/globeEvent/ch3Preview/event.asp


 * The evil power that influenced Shiro Tagachi in Campaign Two
 * Now
 * Quietly crept into the North-Africa flavored
 * Campaign Three
 * Nightfall

The remaining text just says "more info will be posted later" - 01:05, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
 * heh - I never did trust that gypsy fortune teller ... --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:18, 8 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I see it's not just me checking the Asian official sites for news bits. Lately I found more Nightfall news there than on gw.com, which is quite sad. --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:34, 8 August 2006 (CDT)


 * For Factions, the Japanese site had way way way way way more info than the US site. Still does, in fact. - 02:41, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

Speaking of the Taiwanese website, does anyone know what this is about? Babelfish chokes on it, so the only things I've managed to get out of it are August 3rd and August 20th. -- Gordon Ecker 04:10, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
 * They are letting the users vote on the official translation of the name "Nightfall". Overall a smart move, but they only give ppl 3 choices to vote on.  - 04:19, 8 August 2006 (CDT)