Talk:Melandru's Resilience

Does this mean that if you have, say 4, conditions/hexes on you, you'll have +12 health regen? &mdash; ::A mont :: 12:37, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, but remember that health regeneration and degeneration is capped at 10 arrows/pips, and will not exceed that. - Greven 12:43, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * If a new condition/hex is added after you enter the stance, are three more pips added to your health regen? I am bobo
 * Yes. The regeneration isn't set when you enter the stance, it updates as you gain or lose conditions and hexes.  --68.142.14.80 15:55, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Does it give you +3 health regen and +1 energy regen for each condition AND hex, or for each condition OR hex? ie. if I have 2 conditions and 1 hex on me, will i get +3 health regen and +1 energy regen (because i have 1 combination of 1 condition and 1 hex), or will i get +9 health and +3 energy regen(because i have 2 conditions+1 hex)? 62.165.96.134 11:13, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

"for each Condition ****and**** Hex you are suffering." 2 conditions + 1 hex = 9hp regen, 3 energy regen. Just read the skill carefully, its all there.

Too bad Martyr is Elite. This skill would RULE if it weren't. Oh well.--Token Cleric 17:26, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Resilient Was Xiko should give you +2 health regen per condition. I assume what you want to do is take all conditions from your allies, but not have them kill you.  Also, this skill has the ability to remove some when you drop her ashes.  StatMan 09:47, 15 January 2007 (CST)


 * +3 health regen now since after the February 2007 patch.

Draw Conditions maybe?-Onlyashadow, Top 100 Guild 08:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

Usage
Is this skill used at all? I rarely see it in pvp. This+Draw conditions and other conceptualizations are nice, but none of them seem too practical. M s4 17:40, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No. --Fyren 23:42, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

That can be hardly a definitive answer, I'm sure there are people out there who use it in PvP, I've seen several PvE builds too (not to mention I've seen it in AB as well).
 * If you play RA or PvE long enough, you'll probably see every skill used at least once, but that's not what he meant. --Fyren 22:18, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

Bah. This skill is so underused. Sure it doesnt REMOVE them, but it does give you incrediable survival power for its duration if you get hammered with condition sins/warriors and/or hex mesmers/necros.--68.231.224.158 17:53, 29 May 2007 (CDT) I need to remember to log in -_- --Ryudo 17:53, 29 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Health regen saves no man. This skill requires significant WS investment to be useful. This skill only works on your self. Need I go on? &mdash; Skuld 18:00, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

Lol, saves my ass plenty. Nothing funnier than looking at your screen saying "oh, I have -10 degen *click* yay, now I have +10 regen!" You saying that a difference of 40 hp per second isnt good? -_-. As for significant investment, I use it a war, my war has no str skills, str sucks since I have 2 sundering attacks, so I pump it up to 9 no problem. getting it up to rank 9 to save my ass from trappers/condition wars/ mesmer hex spammers/necro hex spammers/ anything that puts a hex or condition on me? Plus the fact it pays for its self energy wise and then some, its E-management/hp regen/ degen counter/ "go rush forward and eat all the hexes/conditons so my casters stay alive, all wrapped up into 1 slot on my skillbar; allowing me to still take FIVE attacks, shield stance, and heal sig? Meanwhile the enemies are still trying to figure out "wtf, he has 6 hexes/3 conditions on him and his hp is going up" (lets see, thats 9x3=27 regen to counter the degen? not to mention stupid energy) my eles blow them all away and my monk mops up w/e is left after the 15 seconds of MR is over. Wow. What a P.O.S. skill.

Dont even give me that mending touch shit, it does nothing for hexes. and purge sig is easy to intruppt and only saves you once every 20 seconds.--Ryudo 04:22, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Health regen saves no man, which is why so many people use Troll, SoR, Healing Breeze, and Restful Breeze, eh?--Ryudo 13:20, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * SoR saves because of the 40 armor. Guess where people use Troll and Restful? On ganks, against NPCs who are very predictable and aren't going to pull out dshot or something on you. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 13:33, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Only PvE, RA, and Split/Gank Rangers use Troll. Once again I will bring up not bleedin to death :p. Readem (talk *contribs ) 13:55, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

I used this at 9 in WS, 12 in HP, and the rest in divine... My team made it past RA all the way to TA, and I got 2 Glad Points. Just use draw conditions and the 150HP heals and its good... 76.170.11.100
 * I've won matches in RA with echo mending, RA does not make a skill good. Lord of all tyria 14:36, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

If it keeps an entire team alive against 2 BoA 'sins (before the nerf), then I think it works.
 * I've monked against 4 (seriously), Shield of Absorption. Lord of all tyria 14:42, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

And yet, thats not what were talking about.
 * Correct, the point is that this skill is inferior to numerous other elites, such as blessed light. Lord of all tyria 14:48, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Pending the Situation :/ I'm just saying that it works perfectly fine, though they are better ones for other situations. 76.170.11.100 14:50, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Psh, name a situation where blight is worse than this? Crappy elites like Melandrus Resilience is why you only see BA/BHA rangers in serious PvP, because those are the only ones that don't suck copiously.
 * I played my ranger in PvE for over a year looking for good elites and not finding any, so I got bored of playing him. When NF came out and brought Burning Arrow with it, my ranger finally had something to do (other than enraged lunge pet builds, which got boring after a year). I took every elite I capped for a whirl, and was firmly unimpressed by any of them... ANet said they were going to buff rangers, but I've yet to see said buff. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 14:55, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I dunno, I kinda like BHA. Prepared is nice for PvE...BA is standard. Readem (talk *contribs ) 15:40, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Alright, so mending touch doesn't remove hexes. Does this? So you have 6 regen, does that mean its ok to attack through Price of Failure and Reckless Haste? Leave the hex removal TO YOUR MONKS and bring a decent elite like BHA. M s4 18:43, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

First off, it would be rather stupid for me to use BA or BHA considering I'm a warrior ( did anyone read my paragraph? shield stance and heal sig, hello?) Second, Monks arent God, and if this saves them from having to remove a ton of hexes/conditions, then they just have that much extra energy. Also, please find me a monk that carries 6 hex removal with them, hm? I personally think that this skill gives warriors the best combined survivablity vs hexes AND conditions. No, it wont completly heal the results of empathy, but its a shitload better than anything else you can bring to counter these. My warrior is almost always hexed/condition by something, and considering the fact that there are 3 other ppl on the team, and the monk probably only has two hex removal at the most, having a build that allows you to do decent damage and take (if played correctly and in most situtations) zero damage from most Hexs/conditions, and in fact turn that into healing, I'd say thats alot better than simply taking yet another attack.

Ok, so say you dont use this skill. What (besides a monk) would you take then to counter massive amounts of hexes and conditions as a warrior? And yes, I do take a monk in pvp, but this reduces their load by alot. Monks, imagine rarely having to worry about de-hexing/ taking off conditions off of your #1 damage absorber?

And again, I fail to see how having +10 regen instead of -10 degen can possibly be called weak. --Ryudo 21:37, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * "Purge Signet." -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 22:08, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Look at it this way Ryudo, why use Melandru and waste your elite, when you could be using Evis or BA? Killing helps monks far more then self-healing does. Readem (talk *contribs ) 02:07, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Bah. Guess I'm the only one that can really see the potential of this skill. You know what? yall keep taking purge sig, and enjoy the intruppts. I'll keep crushing everything I see.--Ryudo 07:03, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's what I say when I play burst sin :) It doesn't take much to crush everything you see, especially if you're doing it with mela resilience instead of an IAS or natural stride etc. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|19px||My Talk]] 07:18, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

I'd like to point out that Melandru's Resilience can be stopped by anything that cancels stances. Resilient Was Xiko is a much better choice for spell casters since it can't be cancelled by an opponent, and is a non-elite. The three bad things about Xiko is the one second cast time, it doesn't provide energy regen, and it takes away all benefit from your weapon and offhand. StatMan 07:59, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

I think Resilience is a great elite, but I'll admit that it's mostly useful for melee characters. Leeroythefeared 19:03, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Using this skill right after i capped it possible glitch
On the dragons lair mission i was doing cap runs and i put points into wild survival for this skill and i was using it on my warrior ranger and guess what the there was no regen, i did have another eliete skill (hundred blades) i was using it in the facet of chaos lair, and ebven when i was hexxed it did nothing, and these were NONE degen hexs, i was weilding a vampiric sword, if that would help anything.

did you still have the degen from your vampiric sword? also isn't there a chamber with health degeneration in the dragons lair mish?  Marin Bloodbane  ( Talk ) 12:59, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

Enviromental effects from the chaos world are not considered hexes or conditions. Melandru's does not help vs tar either. StatMan 07:57, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Buff
Incoming buff...+4 regen/ recharge reduced to 15 seconds in the June balance update...sweet.... --Ryudo 03:19, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Which actually makes it worth an elite slot. I'd rather use Resilient Was Xiko with its current stats. At least you can keep that up indefinitely and not waste an elite. But with the coming buff I might actually make something using MR. &mdash; Lunarbunny 02:41, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * This is the umpteenth time i've seen people talk about an upcoming update. Did I miss something?&mdash; [[Image:JediRogueSig.jpg]]Rogue  02:47, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * yeah check the official wiki under gaile news for the latest shit list - Skakid9090 14:01, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Damn, this skill is actually useful now 82.19.1.186 04:50, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * U thought this skill wasn't useful???? My W/R uses it as it's core skill and it's brilliant! Leeroythefeared 14:40, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

I wouldn't use Resilient Was Xiko personally because it denies you use of your weapon, plus, as a warrior, you would lose your shield bonus. But, I do see your point. I use this skill alot already, so this is really good news. Running it at 9 WS (which I do) you can keep up indefinitely, and as a stance theres no chance of interrupts. Very good news. --Ryudo


 * I'm loving this buff so far. Any ele that tries to constantly burn you with Mark of Rodgort -are ineffective now because you'll gain +8 regen from both the hex and the burning condition, leaving you with 1 point of regen to spare :) Also very powerful for W/Rs for countering those pesky assassins that spam conditions.  --SavageX 02:12, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeh, the best part about that is you can't do anything to kill the ele because you've wasted your elite to counter the degen instead of countering the ele. - Auron 02:18, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Bah, there are more uses for this elite beyond just that example. Also, you make it sound like a player is gimped if he doesn't use his elite for offense instead of defense.  Killing a fire ele with a warrior isn't exactly hard, depending on the build of course.--SavageX 05:42, 16 June 2007 (CDT)


 * There ARE uses for this. But it isn't the ultimate save your butt skill everytime.  It works in PvE, RA, AB.  I've used it in AB, since AB is so chaotic, and people don't know how to make a team to cover their bases.  It is nice to have 6 hexes on you and 4 conditions, and then have +10 health regen.  Yes, I know that I wasted an elite and couldn't kill any of the 5 players that were attacking.  BUT it was AB.  AB isn't about killing, or about surviving.  Its about capping, so while a group of 5 people were trying to kill me, the rest of my team could cap.   PS, show me the ultimate elite for warriors that is good in all situations, so I can cap it and use it and forget about making builds. StatMan 02:54, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Useless before, still useless. Arshay Duskbrow 05:02, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * agreed. 67.162.10.70 13:43, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Nope, its great now, this is really the only thing to run in RA ;) At least until people cotton on and start bringing more stance removal, enjoy it while it lasts :) have fun &mdash; Skuld 13:26, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Stance removal is a real long shot unless it's just a Dervish with wild blow. People in RA rarely bring enchantment removal to begin with. 67.162.10.70 22:59, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well just the other day I came up against a wild strike assassin &mdash; Skuld 03:55, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * And lost ofc. Readem (talk *contribs ) 03:57, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The main reason the assassin had Wild Strike was probably because it's the fastest recharging Off-Hand Attack. The fastest attack chain is Jagged Strike, Wild Strike, Death Blossom.  That's what I tend to use on my assassin for PvE. --Curse You 15:50, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * People in RA suck. Expect Wild Blow/Strike. 75.162.249.202 16:34, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * For a good time try taking a monk/ranger into RA with MelRes as the elite :D--Zev 21:22, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I was using this alot in PvP, and was wondering how the assassins were pwning me. Wild strike.  Anyway, once I found that out I started timing my ripost.  Wild Strike is very blockable.StatMan 02:45, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Wild Strike is not blockable at all. You need to blind to avoid it, or the sin will ruin your day. Rette Alarix 19:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Check the date... that comment was made 6 months ago, when Wild Strike wasn't unblockable -Gimmethegepgun 19:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Gotta try out that build. Thanks to the buff, your regen will outdo the burning. King Neoterikos 05:48, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Useless?
Wow, i can't seem to fathom the ignorance in here, did anyone think of vermin farming? A friend of mine used this to farm vermin in HM and woulnd't die, he can solo Vermin in Hard Mode with this, with only this, watch yourself, and healing sig as his self defense. I haven't used it yet, but after watching a warrior take on a huge mob of Hard mode Vermin, i'd say this is good, especially since Defy Pain doesn't do anything when it comes to survivability in that same situation. Yes there are better builds for farming vermin, but the point is, the energy and health this provides is makes it well worth an elite slot, the energy especially. If you're in a hex and condition heavy area, toss this on and spam non-elite high cost skills. Apply poison is in the same attribute, and did anyone think of using this with a necro that inflicts conditions on their self?--Darksyde Never Again 16:18, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * And that makes it useful because? Just because it's useful in niche situations does not make it a useful skill (ie a skill worth taking over others). --Kale Ironfist 16:39, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
 * "Useless" means it has no use. A lot of people were saying it's completely useless, and do you know what a lot of eles tend to bring in AB these days? Hexes! Like mark of rodgort and water snares, stuff like that, you'd get double bonus from this for mark of rodgort(when it sets you on fire). It makes you a lot harder to kill especially with all those burning arrow rangers and hex mesmers/necros. I say it's a good skill--Darksyde Never Again 13:50, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Those BAs don't even deserve to have the word "ranger" follow them, they ain't no ranger. They be BA noobs --Gimmethegepgun 13:57, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Eh? Running a BA takes skill, unlike most other builds. - Auron 19:48, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * MIINNNEEE Leeroythefeared 21:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The main problem with Melandru's Resilience is that...(1) For a Ranger, you already have a lot of other non-Elite Stances and Skills that let you counter degen and hexes well. (2) For a Warrior, you're investing in Wilderness Survival (meh) and have plenty of tanking options in Tactics and Strength. And, it's an Elite. So basically, the problem with this skill is that other non-Elites are too good in comparison. (T/C) 14:12, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The fact that this skill is elite is simply because it provide health regeneration and energy regeneration for every hex or condition that u are suffering from. Seems to me that most people here ignore the uncapped energy regeneraion this skill provide. --Arthas 17:00, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * No, people are not ignoring it because of that. People are ignoring it because they know the energy regeneration it provides is not worth the elite slot and your stance. The health regeneration can be provided in non-elite ways, so this becomes extra energy while hexed and conditioned, generally not a good scenario and can be quite deadly. For all intents and purposes, this is an elite Troll Unguent that is conditional. Not really worth it, which is why it doesn't see play in organised PvP. --Kale Ironfist 19:41, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I use a condition managing build with this elite all the time in AB. You bring Draw Conditions, this, and some healing skills.  Under most conditions, the regen is enough to offset the hexes, and extras energy regen can help alot when you need to heal alot (which is probably what you'll need to do when you're getting hexed) The Imperialist
 * This is like Grenth's Balance, generally useless in typical PvP/PvE but very awesome in the niche builds for it --Blue.rellik 20:40, 17 August 2007 (CDT)


 * I'd love to defend this skill, but frankly, I don't want you people to be using it in AB. The few people I've encountered that use this do rather well.  For doing AB, my alliance now swears by it for survivability.  One touch ranger uses this, so that he can't be degened and slower to death, instead of the usual elite that touchies bring.  I use it too.  If you guys don't like it, fine.  Forget about the instant activation, instead of 3 seconds for troll.  Forget that it can't be removed as easily as an enchantment (our touchie also loves rend enchantments).  I would also like to say that there isn't just one PvP.  The strategies you can use in AB might not work in RA or TA.  Strategies that work in RA might not work in TA.  Strategies that work in TA might not work in Hero's Ascent.  Frankly, this skill would be terrible in TA and HA.  You should have a healer that keeps you alive.  In AB, often times part of your team dies, and you could bring a rez, but since they rez naturally without DP, why bother?  But then your team gets split up.  If your healer died, then you are left to fend for yourself.  So, you can't even count on the party healer to keep you alive.  StatMan 15:15, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

I think the problem the wiki has is that HoH and TA people would view this skill as worthless, because it really is in those modes. Likewise, said people probably never do FA or AB, and view the people that do as a joke. Therefore they would view this skill as a joke, without understanding just how amazing it is in these modes, and just how useless TA and HoH builds (and GvG builds) are in these arenas. Anytime I try to play a warrior without this skill in AB or FA, I feel so weak, its like I die 10x faster. I see bleeding and go "crap, degen" or see hexes and go "crap degen." But if I have MR on me I go "sweeet, hp and ene regen." only thing that really gets me scared is blind and anti-melee hexes, and even then, this skill still helps me survive.

To sum it up, maybe all these people bashing these various skills that they dont like should try them out in more than just GvG and HA. A cripshot ranger is uberl337 in GvG, but in FA, people just laugh at him because he cant kill jack shit. shock frenzy wars are nice in GvG and HA, but are like cows in a steakhouse in AB and FA. And if your reading this and still think that your BA ranger is the greatest thing ever, take this with you: At least the people using this skill had the balls to make their own build; and probably dont cruise the build wiki every week for the newest thing to claim as their own.--Ryudo 20:03, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Cripshot owns everywhere. Shock Axe can own AB. I have done it. Melandru's just sucks, as it is only a self-buff, and doesn't support/kill anyone besides yourself. It also requires 9 for break point, making it virtually useless. Finally, wth is FA? Readem (<font color="Red">talk *<font color="Black">contribs ) 21:09, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Pretty much all GvG and HA 'balanced' builds work in all formats, since you're in a team. You basically just have to rework them to work in a 4 player 'split' (and most splits are 2-3 anyway). FA is Fort Aspenwood. To the above about hexes and conditions, whenever I go W/Mo, I bring Mending Touch and Holy Veil. Sure, it takes up one more slot, but I'm not using my elite and I can use it on other people. Mel Res sucks on the basis that it's better to remove it than to keep it on you, in addition to the fact that it's a selfish elite. --Kale Ironfist 21:25, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

While I wont deny that mending touch is good...damn good (its on Izzy's list of overpowered skills I believe) I just have to laugh at holy veil. A one second cast time, 12 second recharge, and its enchantment based? so you can remove a whooping 1 hex every 12 seconds, after first sucking down a nice shatter enchantment for 100+ damage. Laughable. and the wholy "2x longer cast time" isnt going to hurt hex spammers too much as your going to stop, remove, and recast. time spent casting spells is damage and adrenline wasting, plus 1 second cast time is easily intrupptable by a dedicated ranger or mesmer. Plus removing 1 hex every 12 seconds is really not all that helpful, considering if they put one hex on you, they probably have 2 or 3 more at least ready to cast.

Readem, Cripshot does not own in FA. Cripshot suck in FA. I laugh at cripshot in FA cause all they do is shoot and run away, and they never, ever have enough damage to even make me bat an eyelash at them. Cripshot are like ele tanks: ignore them unless they are annoying you.yes, cripple sure is annoying, but not "OMGWTF UBER" If your a ranger in FA, your either toucher, trapper, or intruppter. Crip is a waste. Shock axe: Never understood why they were so popular, I kill them easy. easy to prot against them (PS and guardian) and shock's exhaustion is so heavy on a warrior its severly limits their ablity to use other ene skills and cant even use shock that much. I dont think ive ever lost a 1v1 to a shock axe war on my MR war. Frenzy makes me laugh everytime I see it.

Again, I am speaking from MY point of view. I dont do GvG or HA, so maybe shock axe is somehow good their ( i suppose a team of them chaining kd would be good, but just one is ineffective IMHO.) Crip shot I can see why it would be good: Cripping warriors that charge forward to prevent them from retreating.) And I can also see why MR would suck in these situations: Thats why you have monks. Monks remove conditions (duh) and to a limit, hexes, so you dont need something like MR there. But you dont always have a monk in FA (in fact, its rare that your near one)and the best all around, maintainable protection against hexes AND conditions seems, to my eyes, be Melandru's Resilience. Massive Hp regen, turning most hexes and conditions into your favor (sure, I usually dont mind taking a deepwound in exchange for +4 hp regen and +1 ene regen.) Completely countrs poision and diease, turns bleeding into your favor, turns burning ala MoR into your favor (+1 hp and +2 ene), compeletly counters a number of degen hexes/or turns them to your favor (suffering, parastic bond, wither, reaper's mark, just to name a few.), as well as providing nice regen for all the other hexes. And being able to walk into a full load of ranger traps and laugh is just great.

No, this will not stop anti-melee hexes, though it does help you survive being "hexed to death." And no, this isnt going to help your friendly neighborhood monk, other than he has one less person to worry about removing conditions/hexes from. But in exchange its a great solo support skill that has instant activation and almost always has a postive return on energy.

Oh and Readem, not that you would know this, but on the Kurzick side of FA, you have one job:delay. Delay, delay, delay, the whole point is to hold off the luxons till the bar reaches 100%. And sitting there as 2 hex necros spam hexes on me, giving me a lovely +10 hp regen, while a warrior attempts to kill me through said regen and my warrior armor, does seem to be doing a lovely job of delaying.

How the hell can you sit there and say this skill is no good in FA if you've never even played it? Not to mention your changing your mind as you said you liked my MR build. (Note to self, update build box with new version of MR build).--Ryudo 00:32, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Seen some Top 10 HB'ers run W/R (sometimes 2) with this. Counters the R/P meta quite nicely. --Xiu Kuro 01:04, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

This skill is like so great in RA where everyone is packing conditions or hexes of some sorts. It rendered my hex necro useless (if I hex him then I'll give him massive life and energy regen making him high untouchable) --Blue.rellik 03:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see why a necro couldn't use this with skills that inflict conditions on self for countering health sacrifice and degen and for getting the energy regen from the skill to power some of the high cost spells they have. But then again, you'd be using your elite slot, and there are better elite skills for energy management and better elites for doing what necros do best. - Anon
 * Because they'd rather use Foul Feast; and Angorodon's Gaze for e-management. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)