Talk:Fire and Pain

If you are having trouble getting the quest from Gwen in the Hall of Monuments then add Gwen as a hero and run out side Eye of the North out post around the side to the garden. Pick up a iris flower and Gwen your hero will start talking. Let her finish then go back to Hall of Monuments where she should give you the quest. Note the flower is gone from your inventory.

This mission is triggered also by the Tattered Girl's Cape if you still have it. I checked with the Cape alone in my inventory and the mission was avaiable. Sotaknuck 17:19, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Sorry for the doble edit, but the mission is triggered also by a simple red iris flower.Sotaknuck 17:22, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

It is important to note that the third and final group of Charr you must defeat is actually an effigy. It will not appear until you have cleared the burning forest of monsters.

Umm, what EXACTLY triggers this quest? I've spoken to her in the HoM with both a red iris flower and her broken flute, yet no quest comes up for me. So there's apparently some requirement to it other than just having one of those items present. DKS01 05:14, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

Has anybody tried this with Canthan or Elonian characters? While I was successful with my Tyrian-born characters, it seems many people simply can not get the quest. Vlatro
 * I got this quest with my mesmer, who is Canthan, so I don't think it's that. - Spectrus T 20:36, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * got it with elonian char after finishing ebon vanguard, asura, and norn questlines, and i'm pretty sure i couldn't get it after completing norn and vanguard alone.SuicideBunny 20:45, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

I only got this after i won the game.. so maybe you have to win the game before you get the quest Axel
 * I agree with this. If you talk to her before finishing, she says that there's more important things to do. - Spectrus T 20:36, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I got it after completing the Ebon Vanguard primary quest (only) - you don't need to win the whole expansion. Incidentally, I found the patrols of Burning Spirits to be a much greater threat than the quest spawns. Draxynnic 20:40, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've completed the Ebon Vanguard primaries and it's still not available to me. DKS01 23:35, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've completed the Ebon Vanguard primaries and the Norn primaries, along with most of the optional Ebon Vanguard quests. This quest shows up just fine for me, so it seems to require one of the optional quests in addition to the main quests.  The one to kill a titan stands out, since this quest takes place in the same area, though that's just a guess. -Gildan Bladeborn 11:32, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Already got and completed the titan one, still no luck. DKS01 17:44, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Completing the game is definitely not needed, I didn't finish the last two primary quests (No. 15 and 16 in the hero's handbook) and got the quest from Gwen. I completed the Asura, Ebon Vanguard and Norn primary quests though and I finished a lot of side quests ...--Guu 13:00, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've completed all Norn and Ebon Vanguard primary and side quests (no Asura quests at all) and this quest was available. &mdash; Perfectsam  [[Image:PerfectsamPiano.png]] 18:50, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I've completed all Norn and Vanguard primary quests and most side quests, done little on the Asura side, and it's not available for me. DKS01 20:52, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Check if you've done The Smell of Titan in the Morning. It takes place in the burning forest too. Might be required too, who knows... &mdash; Perfectsam  [[Image:PerfectsamPiano.png]] 03:39, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Already did that one too, still no luck. I'll keep tryin though. DKS01 05:27, 6 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You need to complete all the Ebon Vanguard quests.  I have completed the Norn and Asura primary quests but not the Ebon Vanguard.  When I talk to Gwen, she says "I can't belive you held onto that for so many years.  But, with the Ebon Vanguard missing, my own past must be put aside for now.  We'll have time for this matter after my friends are rescued."  After I completed all the Ebon Vanguard quests (I just had one remaining) then she would give me the quest.  --Selflove 01:53, 8 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I already HAD completed all of them, and she wouldn't give it to me. Then I went back yesterday, with the same items in inventory, without having completed ANY more quests, and then it was available. Weird. Oh well, at least I finally got it. DKS01 00:20, 18 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think The Smell of Titan in the Morning is required - the first time I ventured into the Burning Forest, I actually had both active. Draxynnic 09:30, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

Hard?
lol.. has anyone found this quest particularly difficult.. do to the fact that there are hundreds of SF and SH eles flying around?

Yeah, it's crazy with all the elementals and fire spirits, not to mention the boss is fire ele as well. I managed to get through with Power Block interrupt Gwen, SF Vekk, LoD Holy Haste monk hero, Cynn, Mhenlo, Lina, and Herta, but only with careful pulls. It's possible to get one group at once. The fire spirit mob was close though, thankfully Gwen had CoF and PB. --Milo 23:44, 2 September 2007 (CDT)


 * I managed to kill the Boss' group with only one death. All you have to do is spread out as much as possible. --Curse You 15:01, 3 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Its really easy if you bring along a Seige Devowerer.. you can kill alot at once. 65.24.106.106


 * Yeah it's quite hard if you rush in with some general pve builds not know what to expect. I managed to finish it by just rushing in from the resurrection shrine with 60% DPs and pciking them off bit by bit.


 * Joke easy, just take some preparation, you know you're going against charr and fire damage, just give everyone Mantra of Flame and take someone with Ward Against Harm and nothing hurts you, in fact, that's a good plan against most charr encounters. --Ckal Ktak 13:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok here is my 2 cents... I dont complain about anything and rarely post but I was dissapointed with the reward. Excited when I heard it was a rose, I couldn't wait to do this quest. But... The rose should have been smaller. Earth scroll or flame artifact size. If Jora is holding it, my character is almost the same size as it is. Even in my hands it looks awkward. Did I say in my hand... right through my wrist. Same on Jora. I am one of many people that has been wondering what happened to Gwen and what is all the stuff she left around for. Had the rose been done right it would have been the greatest treasure to date in the game (might even be useful if they gave it a "forget me not" 20% HSR inscription) but, sadly, I will have no problem selling this green. Having said that this was an under-appreciated quest (rewards) for the difficulty level, although I would have gladly excepted the rose without the 15k exp if the developers had put more effort into it. Even Gwen's flute looks better... like its being held in the hand, It's not so long that you look like a shaolin monk and looks like a flute up close. And the flute quest is repeatable with the same 15k exp reward. give me the flute for this one anyday (although Gwen as a little girl used to follow us around healing us so personally I would like to have seen a divine favor or heal attribute link... but I am just getting picky now.)

Requirements
There is another Item that works to trigger the Quest: The Broken Flute. I had both, but the Gwen's Broken Flute was as Offhand item equipped to my Master of Whispers, and she take the Broken Flute when i accepted the quest. —  Zerpha The Improver  15:05, 9 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Tapestry shred worked for me
 * The Broken Flute might work to trigger the quest, but Gwen's Broken Flute not (at least for me). I have tested it with only Gwen's Broken Flute in my inventory and she did not offer me the quest. All other items worked perfect. Balwin 15:38, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm with Balwin on this, "Gwen's Broken Flute" doesnt trigger it. I've finished the game, so I don't know why she isn't giving me the quest. [[Image:Bigrat2sAvatar.jpg]] Bigrat2  Talk 07:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Gwen's Broken Flute (post searing item) does trigger it, it's how I got the quest. I think people are confusing the pre-searing Broken Flute with the post item.

The Tapestry Shred is best used to get Then and Now, Here and There *prophecies only* for Gwen's Flute. I did get this quest using Gwen's Broken Flute (the one from Post Searing, as the one from Pre does nothing) without any trouble on my Prophecies ranger, but my dervish had to use a Red Iris Flower inorder to receive this quest.

My Strategy
Power Block Gwen. She did not miss a spell, the effigies we slain with no probs.66.131.81.28 06:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggested skills
I added a couple of skills (Ward Against Harm and Song of Purification) to the suggested skills list. Combine the two and it's cake. You can still avoid party wipes even if you overpull. -Ruse 02:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Please review the suggestion about Song of Purification. Any Para will have problems keeping this up due to lousy AI e-management on heroes... A better option is Breath of the Great Dwarf. this has a rather long re-charge, so beware. The other option is to take a LoD spamming Monk along, as this helps too. * Better still is a the aforementioned Monk + Ward Against Harm Water mage + Ward Against Elements Earth Mage (Hertha for instance) Wish u luck trying this, it's a toughie Klefer 13:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

It may be worth mentioning that several of the elemental foes near the final area are immune to burning, and as a result, skills like Searing Flames or Mark of Rodgort will be useless. In addition, due to the large amount of AoE, and lack of corpses from the elementals in that area, a MM can encounter problems. Kalendraf 14:02, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Pyre Fierceshot
Incidentally, the first time I did this, I had Pyre along as well as Gwen - and after you get close enough to trigger the dialogue between Gwen and the shaman, Pyre starts going on about bringing down the false gods or something like that (it was a while ago, so I can't remember the exact phrase he kept repeating). Has anyone else seen this, or any other responses from other heroes (Anton, for instance)? Draxynnic 02:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

doing this with The Smell of Titan in the Morning
Doesn't it actually make that quest easier, because the Charr replace some of the Flowstone Elemental, Burning Spirit, Lava Blister which normally inhabit the area? Also, Ignus the Eternal + 2 Burning Spirits is not much of an extra challenge anyway. Charr groups may be more balanced, but I'd take that over olol firespikes any day.

Also, a random note - I was doing this quest with Tahlkora set as an RC monk, when suddenly someone casts Life Sheath on me. Yes, it was one of the Charr Menders while they were still non-hostile. He was following me all around the forest, using Mend Condition on burning from the trees and such. It was pretty funny. Maybe he would have even followed me across the whole map if I hadn't killed him. by finishing the quest...(Gives me bad memories of Elder Jonah in Nundu Bay (mission)) (T/C) 12:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, I've had that too... I dragged the whole warband along, by luring monsters to them :D Fun times. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Dialoge
I just noticed I've got a completely different dialoge. here it is: This belonged to me, a great many years ago. How did you come to have such thing, ? Well, it is no matter. Those are memories of a lifetime ago, long dead.

I lost all that I held dear to the Searing, and I fear that the Charr may be trying to invoke those terrible magic again. The Ebon Vanguard's scouts have reported forces within the Charr's Shaman caste attempting to regroup in Sacnoth Valley. They surely mean to retaliate against us, and if they could summon such a power again... We must stop them at all costs!

It also doesn't say "master quest", but the intructions in the summary seem to be the same.--El_Nazgir 13:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe that is what happens if you use a Tapestry Shred and you're not a Prophecies character. (? dunno, never felt like wasting one to test) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's with a dervish, but I used a normal Red Iris Flower.--[[Image:El Nazgir sig.png]]El_Nazgir 15:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm...no idea then. All of my characters have already done Fire and Pain so I can't check. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a different dialogue if you use a non-Prophecies character. I'll look at that sometime.[[Image:ShidoSig_moebius2.gif]]