Talk:Storyline (Prophecies)

Incorporating Guild Wars:Factions?
I wanted to start a discussion on these now (please post a link if this discussion already exists on another talk page). While contemplating some proposed changes to the Main Page, I realized that several of the links will need to be re-thought in the very near future as a result of Guild Wars:Factions coming out. Some of the ones off the top of my head are Storyline; Mission Overviews; Quests; and Pre-Searing guide. I'm sure there are others too. For these, which are currently geared towards content specific to the Chapter One content, I see a few options: Also, once these changes are decided, the navigation from the Main Page will likely need to be re-worded and/or re-organized to simplify navigation between the content for the different chapters. So, lets hear the thoughts and suggestions on how to manage the additional material! --Barek 20:49, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Simply ammend the existing articles to add GW-F content (could work for Storyline; but it's bulky, and this solution wouldn't work for the Pre-Searing guide).
 * Maintain the current article as-is, and use a new naming convention for all new chapter articles.
 * Turn the existing articles into disambiguation pages, which then link to something like either Storyline (Chapter One) and Storyline (Chapter Two), or maybe Storyline (GW) and Storyline (GW-F), or some other secondary tag to distinguish them. I think this is the cleanest solution, especially once further future chapters are added.
 * Some combination of the above, on a case-by-case basis.


 * Hmm, I dont forsee any big problems here. Storyline can simply be amended, same with Quests. And most likely we will not have to change the pre-searing guide at all, because Factions will have its own, separate tutorial area. --Xeeron 05:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We started discussing the same question here. I think at one point in the near future we'll have to start adding a prefix to many articles (Storyline being a good example) to distinguish Chapter One content from Chapter Two content. The prefix is to be decided. -- 05:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I will repeat my original suggestion. Storyline should be an index page, listing the various chapters and maybe recounting how the story shifts from one chapter to the next. Then Storyline - Ch1 should be this page and Storyline - Ch2 should be for Factions and so forth. --Karlos 08:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Karlos, except that the suffix should be in brackets (wikimedia standard) so that we can use the "Pipe Trick". -- 08:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We could also go by what A.Net calls each. If you notice on the log in, all PvE characters are said to be in the "Prophecies Campaign." So, therefore, when the time comes, maybe we should label a section as the Prophecies Campaign, with its own page, and then a Factions Campaign, with its own page and link. --Ravious (don't know how to timestamp ::shame::)

Storyline Creation
Who dares to write a summary of the storyline, "The GuildWars Story in a Nutshell"? --Tetris L 02:58, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I might dare, but somebody else would probably do it faster. I wouldn't mind trying, though. How about 3 spoiler warning tags or something...this would be the absolute killer. I have plenty of time today though. - Lunarbunny 03:06, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Spoiler Warning would be a given, off course.
 * The Mission overviews page basically already gives a summary of the storyline. But it is not very pleasant and entertaining to read. --Tetris L 03:16, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Alright, if you don't mind, I'll try writing this page. - Lunarbunny 03:43, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * This is something that greatly interests me. So, be forewarned, I'll either come up with it one day or mercilessly edit yours when it is up. :) --Karlos 05:48, 4 November 2005 (EST)

I've started it (just editing in Notepad), and I don't know if I'm being too thorough. Should I upload an example .txt to my FTP account and link it to get some criticism? - Lunarbunny 05:59, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * By all means, please put it right into the article. Comment here on what you feel needs to be added/changed. Also mark the article with the appropriate tags (cleanup, stub, delete even) :) and get the ball rolling. Something (relevant) is always better than nothing.
 * If I may suggest, I was going to do multiple sotrylines. i.e. The storyline of Tyira and humans on Tyria, this is the big picture, the one that follows the Mouvelian calendar closely. Then there is the story of the players in the game. This is the one that follows the mission sequence. Just keep that in mind as the two stories intersect at times, but are not the same. --Karlos 06:19, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I believe it should be the storyline of tyria and humans on tyria. the Mission overviews article covers the "mission storyline" --Crusty 10:42, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * So wait...is this one going to be both or multiple articles? I'm working on the player/mission storyline. - Lunarbunny 06:22, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Ignore me. :) Just submit your work. I'll worry about my expectations. :) --Karlos 06:26, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Alright then. I'll submit what I have so far in a minute or two to see what you all have to say about it. - Lunarbunny 06:36, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * My thoughts so far: 1) Don't place the story in the missions (don't make the missions your chapters), but into overall chapters. 2) I don't like the "You" language. --Karlos 07:33, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * I agree --Crusty 10:38, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Ok, I figured the "you" might not pass. I don't know what you want other than the mission chapters...maybe an example? Would you like it to be organized by country? - Lunarbunny 07:45, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * what i would imagine the storyline would be is a chronological list of events that lead up to however the game ends (not that ive actually done that yet, so my p.o.v. might not be valid). something along the lines of "guild wars stopped by charr invasion, charrs stopped by wall, wall destroyed by searing" blah blah blah. skip over the finer details like what is actually done in the missions unless you cant progress the storyline without mentioning it. you should be able to read this article and know how the major factions (eg the white mantle, the charr, the lich lord, the mursaat, the shining blade etc) fit together, without getting bogged down by details like how the sceptor of orr got from point a to b. --Crusty 10:38, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Pretty much what Crusty said. The story takes general shifts from region to region. In Ascalon it's a kingdom's suvival against an invading horde, in the Northern Shiverpeaks, it is somewhat a continuation, the struggle of immigrants from Ascalon to Kryta, the death of Rurik, the sub-plot of the Summit vs Deldrimor. In Kryta, we put closure on that with the settlement and then switch to Undead vs White Mantle and the Lich Lord seeking the scepter. Then the chosen get kidnapped and we enter Maguuma with a new theme, the Mantle vs the Blade, this takes us through the Jungle and Southern Kryta where we come out supporters of the Blade after we entered supporters of the Mantle, in the meantime, said Scepter shows up again, though now we took it from the Mantle and gave it to the Vizier. In the desert, it is the story of Ascension, this unplugs us from the Mantle and plugs us into the history of fallen nations like Elona. We come out back into Glint who reconnectes us back to the Mantle and the Blade chase and introduces the Mursaat. Southern Shiverpeaks follow with the story gradually shifting from player vs Mantle to player vs Mursaat. By the time we get to the Ring of Fire Islands, it's all about stopping the nefarious Mursaat. Then of course there's the big trick at Abaddon's that reconnects the scepter, the Lich Lord and Glint.
 * The loose ends include the fate of Ascalon, which we know did NOT fall to the Charr. Just left there on the brink. Also, the fate of the Stone Summit. After their defeat at Thunderhead, what happened? The Mursaat vs the seers, what's that all about? --Karlos 12:02, 4 November 2005 (EST)

Ok, enough subtopics :). I thought I might have been too detailed. You have a much better idea than I Karlos, just write the basics and we can all mutilate it. Maybe I can set up my own bullets on important parts (off of the wiki, that is), and the combination will be much more powerful. Just don't kill me. - Lunarbunny 15:08, 4 November 2005 (EST)


 * Is anybody currently working on this? Karlos? Lunarbunny? I've written a draft with a different structure, covering both the background story / lore as well as the mission storyline. See my drafter under User:Tetris L/Storyline. This is to be elaborated. If we have a general agreement about the basic structure I'll copy this over to the Storyline article, and everybody can start filling in the sections. --Tetris L 00:55, 8 November 2005 (EST)


 * I think everyone should take some time to look at Tetris L's mock-up. This is how i imagine this article should look.

--Crusty 04:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Please also consider the full write up I did at User:Karlos/Chapter One. I've been working on it on and off since the wiki went down and it's now complete. Please review and let me know what you think. Key points:
 * I envision Storyline to a be a "series" list of all the storylines from all the Guild Wars releases. I assume "chapter two" that they're making right now will share certain elements with chapter one yet will mostly be a new adventure. The story in the game is completely based around the players.
 * I separated history from the game's story. I placed a recommendation that players read the history link to get a clearer picture.
 * I have re-explained terms/events when I felt the meaning would be lost without explanation (like Chosen or Searing).
 * Perhaps the write up could be made more bulleted, but I think it looks fine as it is too.
 * --Karlos 06:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Great work on Chapter One, Karlos! A very good summary of the storyline. If anything, I would change only minor details.
 * One thing though: I don't think we have to make major provisions for a possible future expansion at this time yet. For now, there is only one "chapter", so we should simply call this the "storyline". Once the expansion ("chapter two") is released, this whole wiki will need a major overhaul anyway. The storyline is just one of many articles that will have to be split into chapters then. Let's wait with that work until it's due. --Tetris L 10:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I say I like Karlos' storyline the best. I feel somewhat embarrassed at how mine turned out :/ - Lunarbunny 13:34, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Two things, now that we've established Karlos' draft as a basis:
 * 1) Karlos, you obviously structured your article by regions. How about we add the region name as a sub-title for each section? I think that would make the structure of the storyline clearer for those who are not yet fully familiar with it.
 * 2) I will copy Section 2 and 3 of my draft into History of Tyria as a start. We can then continue to restructure it and fill in the gaps. Okay? --Tetris L 01:49, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * 1 is fine, and 2 is fine. I look at your draft as a "massive history listing" :) kinda like the massive item listing and the massive creature listing. I don't think it would make a particularly interesting read to list all those sometimes unrelated events in one document. You are better off taking a common thread and following it through the ages.
 * For this, I would recommend humans themselves as they seem to be the focus of the flame seeker prochicies and the object of most significant events (except the Stone Summit/Deldrimor divide). Grab the history of humans from creation to the present times and link to peripheral events while following the calendar. Perhaps add a "preface" about the Forgotten's role pre humans, but humans should definitely be the axis around which the entire article revolves.
 * Thus, I suggest you move your draft into History of Tyria/Milestones or History of Tyria/Key Events and then we can thread a cohesive tale from all of that. --Karlos 05:37, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I like your idea of telling the story following the time line through the ages. We could take the Mouvelian Calendar as a basis and elaborate it.
 * This should really be a brief summary of events, with references to many other articles for details. But even if we keep each section brief, this summary as a whole will end up massive, that's for sure. --Tetris L 08:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * A Storyline and a Timeline are two entirely different beasts. The first should read smooth and lead the reader to the important parts, the latter pedantically list every known element bullet-point-style (and chronologically of course). I dont see why we should not have both around. --Xeeron 10:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That's my point. I am saying the History of Tyria should be an article/tale while the compilation Tetris has in his talk page should be a timeline or list of all significant events. --Karlos 11:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Unanswered Qustions
--Karlos 09:23, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Deldda: Ascalon did not fall. When did that happen? Cite sources and name names, please. Last I heard, the players saved Rin from falling to the Charr and thus, the areas south of the wall remain under the King's control. Glint words in the Last Day Dawns seem to imply that Ascalon is on the verge of collapse, but they also confirm that it has not collapsed yet.
 * Shandy: This is not about questions you personally find unanswered :) Glint is one of the Forgotten, she is a prophet/oracle concerned with the fate of humans. Her motives are her own, but as one of the Forgotten, former custodians of Tyria, her interest in Tyria is not strange. The Seers are the shady ones. But their too small a figure in the story to put them there.


 * I objected to "Will Ascalon fall to the Charr?" because, technically, Ascalon already fell to the Charr in the Searing. It is true that they are still resisting the Charr, by the skin of their teeth even, but it is hard to claim that the Charr didn't already pwn the lush and vibrant kingdom from before the Searing. Perhaps we are drawing a distinction between complete destruction (which has happened) and final military defeat to the Charr (which hasn't happened). But *shrug*. It's just three words. If you're attached to them, just add them back. &mdash; Deldda Kcarc 09:32, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Note: I added a reference to the Mouvelian Calendar while we wait for the History of Tyria to be completed. It may become redundant once the history is available; but for now it's a good starting point for those who are using this document in its current form. - User:161.88.255.139 (oh, PS: I'll be creating a user account shortly; links to an anon IP address are getting old - any way to link my IP edits to my user ID once it's created?)


 * Do we know why exactly the Exodus of the Gods occured? because if not that's a pretty big unanswered question.


 * True, but it's not something that happened in the story of the game, it's history. It's a question to ask in the History of Tyria article. --Karlos 17:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Seer and Mursaat hate each other?
I know the Seer's race want to commit genocide upon the Mursaat, but there has been no indication that the Mursaat hate the Seer. There is also no direct indication that the fall of the Seer's race (and their race fell is itself a speculation) was due to the malice of Mursaat. I mean, Humans don't hate Whales, but humans are causing the near extinction of whales, and for all we know, whales might want to cause the destruction of our race. But we don't hate whales. ...do we? Also, our entire race probably want to cause the destruction of termites, but cannot. Do termites hate us? probably not. They just do what they do being what they are. -PanSola 06:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


 * All that being said. I'd much rather think of them as two intelligent races at war, rather than termites and humans. I think that's a lot more plausible. --Karlos 09:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC)