User talk:Defiant Elements/Archive 1

Discussion
Need some help with those userboxes? :P &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:40, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, I'm learning... but yes, I would. I didn't really stop to actually learn the formatting before trying to put it together.  Maybe I should go do that at some point... Defiant Elements 22:41, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Actually, I was trying to double or maybe triple them up to conserve space... think you can help me with that? Defiant Elements 22:46, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Darn edit conflict. And yeah, sure thing :P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:47, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks Defiant Elements 22:48, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Like that? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:55, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hurrah. Success! Thanks.  Defiant Elements 22:55, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Glad I could help. =) And finally, a userpage! I was wondering when you were going to make one. :P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:56, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hmmm... 34 user-boxes on one page... maybe I went a little overboard... Defiant Elements 02:39, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I don't know if it is possible, but the userbox about aspiring to being a wiki admin was completely true *hint hint* :P Defiant Elements 00:52, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I wouldn't get your hopes up, seeing as how you lost your show preview button. :P That's kind of a prerequiste to even be nominated and it actually makes admin's and user's work watching for vandals harder due to the lack of using it. &mdash; Gares 01:07, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Curses, foiled again. Defiant Elements 01:08, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, I can always hope that I get nominated, and if it meant a better shot at nomination maybe I could be induced to find it... Defiant Elements 01:10, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * It was hard work, but I found it! Defiant Elements 01:49, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * Two Hopes IMO -- Bob and No. Eg: Why do you keep changing the tag at Build:D/E Dervish of the Earth from untested to unfavored? This build has had barely 24hrs for people to view - let alone test IG as opposed to on paper - and yet you have decided that you are the voice of the guild wiki community and consensus has been reached... Hardly the actions of a responsible Admin. Fox Bloodraven 03:51, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * What are you talking about? It had more than three unfavored comments and no favored comments which means it goes to unfavored.  And I only moved it once.... Defiant Elements 13:48, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Show Preview is your friend.
 * If I didn't use that you would be amazed how many more entries in the history log there would be :X Defiant Elements 23:45, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Oh no! Help, I can't find the "Minor Edit" Checkbox!! 58.24.194.160 00:41, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Mo/D Vermin Farmer
I've adjusted the build for much greater speed. Runs without mistakes take me about 9 minutes now. Could you please revote?--Gobla 07:10, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Builds
I've noticed your name tag, votes, and comments on a lot of the Ranger builds (as that is the area I'm responsible for trying to help with and why I noticed it there) and wanted to say thanks for the help. Getting decent votes on those builds helps out a lot in getting them through vetting or unfavored and another step closer to getting cleaned up/out. So once again, thanks.--  Vallen Frostweaver  13:26, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * No problem. I think that there is little debate that changes have to be made in the vetting/build making process.  Personally, I think that part of the solution has to be more knowledgeable people dedicated to improving/testing builds.  I am just trying to do what I can to help.  Defiant Elements 14:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

I loved your Me/Any Power Block Farmer, and I am sort of disappointed that you had to make it into 2-man (the entire concept of solo-mesmer was awesome). Although I can look up the original build on one of the chars on your page, I have forgotten the usage, varients, etc. of the build. (I only visited the site once... the second time I visited it, it was deleted.) May I contact you in-game for the information, or do you still have the page buried somewhere? (I'm new to GuildWiki, so I don't know about all the mechanics you have here.) Thanks in advance. 58.24.194.160 05:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I am going to reformat the build as a two-man Sorrow's Furnace farming build, but I will include a full description of the solo variant in that. Defiant Elements 14:19, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Here you go, Build:Me/Mo Power Block Farmer. That includes the support build for use in SF as well as the solo build.  Defiant Elements 16:15, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks! You ROCK. If that wasn't obvious. 58.24.194.160 19:10, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Considering I suffer from Delusions of Grandeur and think that I am better than every other user, I think it is pretty obvious that I do rock. But, I always appreciate it when someone makes my already huge ego even bigger :).  Defiant Elements 19:38, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I wrote the build down on paper :D Do you think R/Me would also work? (cuz I have Power Block on my Ranger and I have no intention of getting a Mesmer to hunt down more bosses in Perdition Rock...) The added armour could lessen restrictions on stances, and I could bring more damage and e-denial skills... ?? 58.24.194.160 19:42, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. You just wouldn't have enough energy to spam Wastrel's Worry + Mind Wrack and use all of the hexes.  You can try it, but I have serious doubts.
 * Would 47 be enough? 20e + Druids armour 12e + staff wtih 15 e... gets you 47... add a couple of attunement runes... 51 or 53 energy... would that be enough? Isn't that more than what mesmers usually have? :D but we would need it cuz Wastrel's and Mind Wrack wouldn't be as effective and would need more spamming... is there a problem other than energy? o btw I appreciate all the trouble you went through for that Me/Mo build. It's what makes you awesome. 58.24.194.160 20:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well, it looks like that would solve the energy problem, however, there is one other issue. Without runes/headgear to add to Domination Magic, you will deal less damage and Power Block will not prevent spell casting for nearly as.  If you can pull it off, then fine, but you would have to get lucky speed-wise and it might restrict the number of bosses you could farm (i.e. only bosses with small energy pools perhaps).  But, try it out, experimentation is all part of the game, I don't have a ranger on my account, but if you do and that is all you have then go for it.  Defiant Elements 22:05, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I was thinking that too. I'll probably get a HCT/HRS/HRS Dom 20% staff with insightful mod and see if that helps. Might need to recast Power Block. At any rate, thanx for your help. You rock. :D 58.24.194.160 00:04, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Hmmm, just as I was about to contribute a P/Mo Angelic Bond parry build (and I felt so special because I was going to throw in SoA, too), you beat me to it. Gj though, I'd totally vote yes on that one if it weren't already vetted. Zaboomafoo 16:33, 6 January 2007 (CST)

How did you test the R/Me Speed Trap Solo? I thought you didn't have a ranger... 58.24.194.160 21:07, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * I don't but I sometimes play on one of my friend's accounts when I need to test out a build or I want to play a build but I don't have a character with the right equipment or elites. Defiant Elements 22:03, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ahh... is that not against the EULA? 58.24.194.160 04:52, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmmm... I don't actually know, it's not like I log on as him... I don't even know his password, he lives down the street from me so sometimes when I am over at his house we test out builds... not sure if that is against the rules... Defiant Elements 15:13, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Do you do requests?
Noticed you commented/voted on a build of mine (rit preservation channeler), which you unfavoured (fair enough, but it is an RA build); was curious as to your opinion of the Rt flagrunner I posted. If you don't do requests, that's cool too :) --Epinephrine 17:33, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Hmmm... requests... sure why not. I will try this out some time tonight.  At first glance it looks pretty good though.  Defiant Elements 17:35, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * I tried this out for a little while and voted favored. Defiant Elements 19:29, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Thanks, I was getting a little disturbed by the no-votes by people who obviously hadn't tried it - suggesting it should be an A/Rt for example :)--Epinephrine 07:31, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, I didn't get that either to be honest. I thought it was a nice little build which preformed pretty well and was very different from existing flagrunner builds.  Defiant Elements 16:09, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Userboxes
Your too obvservant for your on good :) Yes I did copy your user boxes. I was in a hurry and I'm just too lazy to figure out how to do layout and wateva of them for myself. Ty for havign cool userboxes :P --Hyrim 03:24, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * As one of my many user-boxes says, This user knows all and sees all." ;) Anyways, while I did format them, I almost certainly didn't actually think them up. Defiant Elements 03:35, 28 December 2006 (CST)

HEH ... take a look Here =) My new desktop at work... Though it might not last long i couldnt help it after seeing the mass of userboxes=P--Midnight08 16:43, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Nice! Defiant Elements 17:22, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * I can't even read the blue ones, use white text? &mdash; Skuld 16:10, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, that is a little hard to see... why did you change them to blue anyway? Defiant Elements 16:11, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * Why did who change what to blue... all I did was take a screenshot and crop the part that was your userboxes=) theyre blue on yer page--Midnight08 21:54, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * No they aren't, they aren't now and I don't recall them ever being... I guess you could have taken them when I was editing or something and trying to find good color matches... Defiant Elements 23:07, 30 December 2006 (CST)
 * these 3 (

This user primarily plays as a Monk. This user thinks that bonders are the ultimate monks. This user thinks that paragon bonding is teh h4x. ) are black text on blue. On both my comp at home (IE 7 XP), and my comp at work (IE 6 XP). --Midnight08 00:04, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Really? They show up as Black on White to me.  Defiant Elements 00:06, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Looks good in firefox, not IE tho --Midnight08 00:18, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Makes sense. As another of my user-boxes says, Firefox pwns IE. Defiant Elements 00:19, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * hahaha nice, i agree but still use ie due to stubbornness and conveniance --Midnight08 00:30, 31 December 2006 (CST)

o_O Entropy 01:02, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Nice. Well, I did say I thought I might have too many, and I do have a user-box stating I am being oppressed by them.  But, they're all true so whatever.  Defiant Elements 01:05, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * I didn't like seeing 33 user-boxes so I cut it down to a much more manageable 24 :D.  Defiant Elements 02:03, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Looks better :) Btw, you need a box saying you're Multilingual! Entropy 02:10, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Wow looks really nice... definately pwns my user space lol ---Lania Elderfire 17:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, that's just because I have no life and spend all my time doing things like updating this page. At some point I plan on adding some screen shots for the characters.  Defiant Elements 22:37, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Whoa! haha. I need some clever userboxes. Very nice. Giangn626 04:06, 1 January 2007 (CST)

Hebrew
Always nice to find here new Hebrew speakers. ata gar ba aretz? ani student Heifai, ve shney hahaverim she hekiru li et ha mishhak kvar hefsiku lesahek. Foo 04:18, 1 January 2007 (CST)

Removing
You don't normally remove your comments from talk pages, particularly not from somebody else's. (They'll still see the You have New Messages box.) Instead if there's something you've said that can be disregarded you'd normally just use and strike the comment out. --Xasxas256 01:26, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ok, I will try to keep that in mind for future reference. Sorry.  Defiant Elements 01:27, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Solo Troll Farmer
User:Blastedt already has a Solo earth Troll Farm build made up, maybe share some ideas with him? :) Entropy 23:07, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmmm... I see your point, but the builds only share three skills in common... well I am in the process of posting mine in stubs now, so we will see how it works out. Defiant Elements 23:09, 2 January 2007 (CST)

WoW
And exaclty why can't you stand ppl who play WoW? --Sigm@ 14:23, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Because you, duh &mdash; Skuld 14:52, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Lol, I'm pwning you with my lvl 18 Gnome!! fireball->fireball->fireball-> fire blast BOOM! DEAD! --Sigm@ 14:54, 3 January 2007 (CST)

It seems a common trend for GW players to dislike WoW—almost like they're mutually exclusive. :P --Ufelder 15:05, 3 January 2007 (CST)

They're not? o.O &mdash; Azaya 21:26, 12 January 2007 (CST)

It seems to me, one of GW's major upsides is the fact that there is no monthly fee, while WoW does. That tiny little detail makes a massive difference, and therefore the games are reguarded as as far apart as possible. It only stands to reason that players must pick a side, either you spend ten bucks a month and play for hours, or you spend fifty bucks every six months on expansions and play for hours. There is no "center line" to this arguement. ...or maybe it's just because WoW players are n00bs, and should always be treated as such. Jioruji Derako 22:11, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Disabusing a Notion
In the last week, two people have mistaken me for an administrator. Fox Bloodraven who accused me of behavior unbecoming of an administrator (unsubstantiated of course, I was acting according to voting protocol) saying, "Hardly the actions of a responsible Admin." Dark Samus in emailing me to ask me for comments on a build said, "ur the admin that comented on my build." Ok, now to for the disabusing, while I post quite a bit (around 1000-1500 in less than three months) and although my votes/comments are pretty much everywhere I AM NOT A GUILDWIKI ADMINISTRATOR. I honestly don't know where everyone got this notion, but I figured I should disabuse it despite the fact that I would like to be a wiki administrator :). Defiant Elements 16:27, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'd wish ppl saw me for an admin...-Sigm@ 16:31, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's nice that people think I deserve to be an admin and assume that I am, but eventually, I have the feeling that people are gonna expect me to do things I don't actually have the authority to do, like contacting me about reverts or comment striking. Defiant Elements 16:33, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well, your not the only one. People have been thinking that I'm an admin for ages now, just see my talk page archives for some examples. It's pretty fun actually. (Note that admins don't have any more right for reverts, comment striking or anything else according to wiki policies. It's just more responsibility and more tools.) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:33, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Just because they can't actually revert or strike doesn't mean that people wouldn't ask them to do so. Anyways, I would have the responsibility without the tools.  I think the funny part is that I have only been posting on wiki for a little over two months and already people think that I'm an admin :).  Defiant Elements 19:35, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well, both cases were also new or never heard users. Don't be so scared. :) They might have thought anyone to be an admin. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:40, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ouch... I did say that it felt nice people thought I was an admin. And you just had to make it seem like nothing special.  Way to deflate my ego *tear tear* ;).  Defiant Elements 19:44, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * To be honest, people thinking you're an admin has little to do with people thinking you deserve to be an admin. People thinking you're an admin comes from two things, the way you post, and people being used to other sites where people who vote or decide things ar eusually uber-users of some sort and everyone else is just plebians. Not saying you deserve or don't deserve to be an admin, just saying you're delusional. :P --Karlos 19:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeh, this is nothing unusual. I'm sorry we had to tell you. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 19:48, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * It wasn't the fact that I felt you were saying I had no chance of actually being an admin, I already knew that (although I can always hope). Rather that I felt that being mistaken for an admin was something unusual :).  Defiant Elements 19:54, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Not sure why you believe you have no shot of being an admin, everyone does, I would not worry about it though, that usually turns people off. Just contribute and work and you'll get noticed, pretty easily. Keep in mind however, that being an admin is not related to how many posts you have or how many articles you authored. More to do with how people perceive you can contribute to running the wiki (i.e. conflict resolution, enforcing standards, cleaning up the wiki, ...) --Karlos 20:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I meant that I doubted I had a shot in the near future. Anyways, I am not doing this because I want to get noticed, I am doing this because I think the build section needs a LOT of work.  If every member of the PUG groups I sometimes got stuck with had access to/used a good wiki builds section, it would mean a lot less anger on my part ;).  When I first started playing GW I used the build sections a lot, and you gotta give back to the community.  Defiant Elements 22:05, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * PuGs still exist? =O --Silk

Another kind of bonder
Hey, I noticed on your Angelic Bonder discussion you mentioned that you really love bonding builds. I recently submitted a new idea for a type of bonder, the N/D Mystic Blood Bonder. Its already vetted, but I thought you might find it interesting. It combines bonding ability with BiP to act as a health and energy battery. Your angelic bonder looks cool too but I haven't built a paragon yet. Interesting builds like that are making me think I might though. -- BrianG 19:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, I saw your build a while ago. I didn't vote because I couldn't test it, but I thought it looked very cool.  You have to realize that I honestly have no life and spend way to much time on wiki, so any untested build or build stub posted in the last couple of months has probably been looked at by me if only briefly :).
 * Hahahaha to be honest I think I can relate, I feel like that as well lately. I might use the same userbox as you (24/7) the next time I update my userboxes. -- BrianG 19:37, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Roughly two months on wiki, almost 1500 posts. I doubt many people can match that... hmmm... maybe that's not such a good thing though... ;).  Defiant Elements 19:40, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Moving Builds
I noticed that you moved you moved your power block build around a lot. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's creating an endless (well, a HUGE) chain of redirects. Please tag the previous page for deletion when you move builds, please. Tag the talk pages as well. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 22:20, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, sorry 'bout that... originally it was a solo farmer but everyone wanted a team... so I built a team... but the Riposte Tank which was the other half of the tank ended up being replaced with an Elementalist Tank which I then merged with another of my builds which left me with what is essentially a completely reformatted version of my original build that includes a solo mesmer as well as a dual support mesmer. *Sigh*  Defiant Elements 22:27, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Unfavored Build
You recently moved my build to "Unfavored" without any sort of comment. The build is a bit different from when the folks voted. I'm just not sure I'm allowed to REMOVE the votes when I rebuilt it. KnightSilent 21:58, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * What build? I will look again.  Just so you know, you can't remove the votes, but you can start a new RaB somewhere else on the page.  Defiant Elements 21:59, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * A/E Rodgarts Empty Palm. I also need to change the name if that's possible. Was supposed to be Rodgort's Empty Palm, but I goofed when setting it up. I put it back into Untested, but what should I do so that folks rate it based upon it's Current set-up rather than on past comments, votes, etc?? KnightSilent 22:05, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, I thought you meant I had voted improperly... well, I looked at the RaB, saw four unfavored votes so I put it in unfavored as per the vetting procedure. If you have sufficiently changed the build, I believe you can ask for a re-test by putting it back in untested, archive the old talk-page, and add a new RaB... but with the whole reverting controversy, I might ask an admin.  To move a build to another name, you just select the "Move" tag at the top of your screen.  Defiant Elements 22:09, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Who ARE the admins?? I'll move the page to it's correct name, but how do I archive the talk-page? KnightSilent 22:13, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Just put a note on User:Skuld's user-talk. Defiant Elements 22:14, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Build
Het that MoR build gave me ideas, tell me what u think man... HERE Thx. --Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 18:56, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmmm... I like your skill setup more than the other one and I think it has more potential. However, I still question whether it is really worth it... however, this one I will go test since it looks interesting.  Defiant Elements 19:15, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * I actually posted it and it got shot down in about 4 hours from people who wouldnt test it=P Feel free to vote for it in untested tho=P A/E Shadowflame Assassin, and spread the word, maybe we can bring it back from the dead... worked ALOT better than even i thought it would in practice... =)--Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 23:38, 13 January 2007 (CST)

Teaser
I actually tested the build, Defiant. :) I removed my Unfavored, as I didn't see any mention in the variants. I must of overlooked the small amount of text underneath the normal build. You may want to remove the 'Optional' slot as clearly Spirit of Failure needs to be used in conjunection with distortion, and you said it yourself, Power Leak doesn't work very well with the build.Isis In De Nile 23:44, 14 January 2007 (CST)
 * I will do so. Defiant Elements 14:42, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Taking The Title
lol, Defiant it looks like i've taken the title for the most userboxes, without realizing it, untill i got a message from Gem and some other guy saying that i have more userboxes then anyone else on wiki (or any other page on wiki) (SORRY OTHER GUY ;D )Asmodius  08:26, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Well, you are welcome to the title. I used to have around 35 boxes on my page and it just didn't look very good which is why I am down to around 20 now.  Defiant Elements 14:42, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Para Bonder
Hey thanks for the reply. I think you are right in some ways. Im trying to figure out the right combination of skills and I think Im trying to make the para do too much. The P/Mo build is simpler and the truth is, not many teams have the smarts to spike the bonder, or dont care, or you just take 2 good monks. I think ill just be stiking to P/Mo, now. thanks again!--&mdash; Hyprodimus Prime   21:25, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Xeeron/Build volunteers
Don't forget to put any changes or activities of note on Xeeron's volunteer talk page too @ User talk:Xeeron/Build volunteers. Obviously a vote or single vetted build isn't of note but several builds archived, vetted, etc. would be worth noting. Thanks again for signing up, too many did but then never did anything.--  Vallen Frostweaver  07:33, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmmm... I may have done that already... I will have to look over my contributions of last night. Defiant Elements 13:12, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Mo/any Spike Healer
I recently greatly revised this build, and would like to have a chance for it to be re-reviewed by the guild-wiki comunity, if possible. Match 22:38, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Build:Team - SB/RI
Wrote a book for ya. Hope it helps. -Auron  08:23, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Added another chapter. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 21:22, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Ritualist restorers
Hey there. I don't mind merging builds, but I honeslty have concerns about your version; I know mine pretty well, and while I can see aspects of your version that work, it would be tough to use an elite that cancels two of your other skills and makes it tough to use a third. A friendly dialogue is preferable to having you post to have my build deleted though. I won't lie and say that I wasn't upset by that move - I thought I had made it clear on the talk page of your build that I felt they were different enough to put them separately: Here are my reasons:

With only 2 spammable weapon spells you can't use Wielder's Boon, and the build actually plays differently (I've tried) - the Wielder's Remedy is a natural move since you have 2 spells with 3 energy cost that are used every 3 seconds each - or in essence a condition removal between the two of about a condition a second - pretty darn fast. Playing with Warding and Resilient however is more about keeping weapon spells active and making use of the bigger heal of the Wielder's Boon. In addition, the optional slot being used for Return, Hexbreaker or Natural Stride puts in much more in line with many monk builds in terms of its ability to take care of itself; the interplay between Return and Generous Was Tsungrai was a nice surprise when I discovered it, getting a huge 280 health heal while crippling foes and escaping to safety. While they do share aspects, the play is quite different when you pare it down to the two reactive spells - yours is no doubt better facing life steal and hexes, while mine is great versus conditions and damagers, and with 2*0.25 second spells pulling conditions off can save people from Deep Wound spikes pretty well. It does involve only 3 skills substituted, but you almost need to do all three, since they work in tandem - once you have the two fast skills (Vengeful and Remedy) the other weapon skills are even harder to use, and Wielder's Boon becomes hard as well - so you end up changing more.

Anyway, rather than bicker I'd like it sorted. To me, the play is very different - but if you think they are similar enough we can give it a go. I wonder at using WoR on yours, but I also acknowledge that there isn't much else to put there - if you want a heal and don't want spirits there are few options. I've played versions like yours on the route to coming up with mine, which I ended up prefering, but maybe it's a stylistic thing. I'd be fine trying them separately and merging them if they both get vetted for example. -- ~ Epinephrine 20:56, 17 January 2007 (CST)

New Idea.
I know how much you like bonding builds, so yea. I have an idea, that I think would work. How about a E/Mo Bonder. Protective bond with stoneflesh aura. I've submitted one build and it was unfavored (N/any Army of One), so I dont really feel like putting time into making another build page. I would like your thoughts on this and maybe if you think it works put it together. I tried Stoneflesh with angelic bond, and it works, but i think it would be alot more effective with an ele and a monk secondary. Giangn626 23:49, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * I meant to say Life Bond. haha big opps on that one. Giangn626 00:25, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * True. You could have an ele secondary with stonflesh though. -50 damage reduction. thats what i was thinking. Giangn626 00:31, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * I like you idea though. I just dont like the downtime of SoA. Thats why i was looking at different variants for the Angelic Bonder.Giangn626 00:35, 18 January 2007 (CST)