User talk:JonTheMon

Hey there, I'd like to welcome you to guildwiki. -- 19:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Not planning on being highly active, but figured I'd start somewhere. JonTheMon 19:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A late welcome to you! &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 20:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You beat my damage record, not good :'(--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (Talk /Contribs ) 11:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Damage Reduction
If you wanted to rename the page, you should've moved it instead of copy/pasting and redirecting. Not sure how to go about fixing it though. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  13:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah! You're right. I just didn't think of that in time. I thought about it like 1 min after hitting both saves. :-/ JonTheMon 13:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Left a message to Isk8 to see if he can fix it. Wasn't aware that he was an admin til just now, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia  13:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, I got that from Ishmael a couple days ago. Entropy promoted me on the 16th, in the wee hours of the morning.  Now which one am I deleting and reverting? -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  User:Isk8   (T / C)  13:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Revert Delete Damage reduction skills and then move Reduces... to Damage... Thanks. &mdash; Powersurge360 Violencia   13:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Done and done. Though its strange, because I reverted before I deleted, and RC claims otherwise :|.  Its been rather strange with that lately. If ya need anything else, let me know :D -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  User:Isk8   (T / C)  13:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And move done. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  User:Isk8   (T / C)  13:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * thanks Isk8. 'Course, all of this may change yet again if it is decided to use "absorbtion" instead of "damage reduction". JonTheMon 17:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just put a tag on the page after you have moved and an admin will soon delete Random Time  17:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I happened to be on at the time that they were working on this, so it was simple enough to work with. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]  User:Isk8   (T / C)  00:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

SIGH
I got pwned >.< --Macros 17:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry. It happens to all of us. 'course, it's worse when we pwn ourselves :-/ JonTheMon 17:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Reason why we're removing the SoC note
Because of the advents of skill tomes and general play style (people almost never use a SoC on anything other than a elite except in their very very early, newbie days), both Maui and myself have decided that that it is rather pointless to list them, especially since just about everyone nowadays suggests 'Unlock with Balth faction then tome/buy it' - b.r // talk  05:23, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't believe you and Maui constitute a general consensus of the community, and since the purpose of this site is documentary, "less is more" is not the rule here. I would advocate putting that information back. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Blue, your reasoning is sound and I agree with your assessment of things however, the decision to remove something which we have had on articles for years and also not something you should only discuss with one person. Seeing it in recent changes, shouldn't be the first place people learn about it. Felix, you probably aren't aware of it, but your words come across somewhat hostile. Please take time to review your comments before posting them. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 05:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Noted. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * See my talk page for my response - b.r // talk  05:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I used a signet of capture to unlock a large fraction of the Nightfall skills, even though I didn't get Nightfall until about six months after I got Prophecies (so I was new to the campaign, but not new to the game). If I had picked up Nightfall for the first time today, I'd still get skills that way, as it allows you to get many of them much earlier in the campaign.
 * Your assumption that people will unlock skills with Balthazar faction and use a tome assumes that everyone does very extensive pvp to have essentially unlimited Balthazar faction. That, I think, is a very, very bad assumption to make; it is very well known that many players prefer almost exclusively pvp or pve, rather than doing both.  Indeed, if one values Balthazar faction at 1g per point (as seems to be the going rate based on what people in my alliance say about the prices of Zaishen keys), unlocking a skill with Balthazar faction and then buying a tome is the expensive way to get a skill.  Quizzical 07:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Psst
I agree with removing the video note on The Captured Son, but they are used legitimately in mainspace to show animations. See Voltaic Spear for instance. 18:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
for correcting me on my improper edits... I wasnt sure how exactly those worked. Ravien Coromana 21:38, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No biggie. For skill trainers, we list the first one they would likely get to. The exact reason is at: Trainer_locations in case you were wondering. --JonTheMon 21:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I see... it just kinda... stacks up ^_^ For some reason, I htought each trainer had different skill sets... perhaps thats something I'm thinking that I'm thinking was in proph... or maybe i'm just going insane ^_^ Ravien Coromana 21:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In Proph it is a little different. But, in general (especially in Factions/NF) once you get to 1 trainer with a skill, those after will have it. Proph is different b/c the storyline wanders a bit, and there are a lot of places to go that aren't normally reached. --JonTheMon 21:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks guys for fixing my userpage from the vandal :) Ezekiel  [Talk]  01:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Aoe targets
In the target parameter, it would be more informative to include the focus of the AoE: whether it affects allies nearby the caster, foes adjacent to target foe, foes nearby to the trap, etc. &mdash;Dr Ishmael  19:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about by default it's around the caster, but then you'd also have "foes adjacent to target" or "nearby allies to target" or "adjacent foes to location"? --JonTheMon 19:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * And in fixing the headers you've messed up the stats column. And do we want the icon to have it's own column? --JonTheMon 19:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Default=caster sounds great. The stats column looks fine to me, what do you see wrong with it?  Most QRs have the icon in a separate column, I don't see any pressing need to change that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Right now the stats column shows the numeric value of the cost, but doesn't specify adren or energy cost. It also doesn't have cast time or recharge. --JonTheMon 19:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Or it's just my computer and IE :-( --JonTheMon 19:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see now - I thought that was just Wikia's image servers on the fritz again. And I know the problem, too - the stats cell is actually a sub-table, and it's inheriting the hidecol classes from the main table.  There's a way to override class inheritance, gimme a minute to look it up... &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:51, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed, but it'll take a while for Wikia's cache of our common.css to update (took over an hour the last time I changed it, purging doesn't seem to affect the Wikia cache for .css or .js files). &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fix. I'll continue to work on the target descriptions.  --JonTheMon 20:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandal fighter
Thanks. He sure was fast, wasn't he? Makes me think it was an automated script... (T/C) 08:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't really need to be automated. Like, I was able to revert just a bit slower than he was replacing page contents. But good to know someone's still around. --JonTheMon 08:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you blank an entire page and replace it, that gets noted with "Replacing page with...", but he only would start the replacement at certain parts. That's what makes me thing it was at least semi-automated. Plus, it takes slightly longer to create a string of new articles like that, and no typoes in the titles, makes me think he has certain string of article names that he can put in and it will create those with the specified content. I dunno, it's just my feeling. He could be exceptionally fast vandal, that is also true. Or setup everything in multiple tabs then just hit Enter for all of them. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Odd. I figured he just replaced the whole page b/c every single edit he made left the page with 3770 size. 'Course, the pages he created may have been different, but I didn't look at those too closely. --JonTheMon 08:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * PODAX the Lord! Haven't heard from that one in a while, have we? Or have I missed that much? :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, I looked through a 20-something amount of his contribs, all were the same "story". "Replaced by" message only goes for pages smaller than X amount of bytes, and I think his story went over that by a lot. Haven't checked his pages, though, but I expect them to be the same again. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Build: Bad Balthazar build
Notified the user; maybe he wants it in his userspace, so I'll wait for a response. And if he doesn't respond within 3 days (maybe less if I'm moody someday) I'll delete it regardless. --- -- (s)talkpage  15:28, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Or Ish will just move it. --JonTheMon 15:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You EC'd me on saying that. Lol. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah... >.> I tend to react immediately to things instead of reading all the way through RC.  It's a bad habit, I know.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:35, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol on the EC. and just going ahead and moving it means we don't have to worry about it in 3 days. --JonTheMon 15:36, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Category Contains rare crafting material
I see you and Dr ishmael have undone the pages from the "Contains Amber" and "Contains Charcoal" categories that I had added to the "Contains rare crafting material" category. I had planned to add all the pages from the "Contains rare crafting material" category, "Contains..." subcategories to the "Contains rare crafting material" category. What I was trying to do was to provide a single page that lists all the drops that contain rare crafting material. Thus in the situation where you have an inventory full of drops and you are trying to decide whether to use an expert/superior salvage kit or a normal salvage kit on them you can see at a glance which items might contain rare crafting materials. As far as I am aware there is currently no page on GuildWiki that allows you to do this. If you do know of such a page please let me know. Alternatively if you can suggest a name for a new category to cover this please let me know. DemoniaFatalis 12:35, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Take it to Category_talk:Contains_rare_crafting_material --JonTheMon 12:38, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Dr ishmael showed me another way of doing this so no need. DemoniaFatalis 19:52, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Your fast!
In moving the mess I made. Thanks for that. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Rolling on the floor
I have given you access to the rollback tool. You may wish to familiarize yourself with it via GW:ROLL. Feel free to start laughing too. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 06:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Dr ishmael/Sandbox/THL
I think my formula is off a little bit, specifically, the lucky points accumulation. How many lucky points do you get from opening X chests with a R retention rate? &mdash;Dr Ishmael 22:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You should get 250*r/(1-r) points per key. (1/(1-r)) keys for reusing keys, 250*r for average lucky points per key. --JonTheMon 22:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting the same numbers as you are on lucky points. After getting max TH i calculate you should have 2,095,000 points, not 2,250,000 points. --JonTheMon 22:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's what I thought. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Think I've got it mostly correct now, and it's working for the first example in my sandbox, but it seems to be stopping at 5 iterations when starting from 0 in both titles. I don't feel like working on it anymore tonight, but if you (or anyone else) want to mess around with it, go ahead.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the issue is that in the worst case scenario you need 13 iterations, 1 each for Lucky and TH. I'm not quite sure how to resolve that yet. --JonTheMon 01:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You just keep adding stars until you get to User:Dr ishmael/Sandbox/THL************* (each of those is a redirect to the star-less one). The problem is that it should be showing a redlink for the next iteration, but it's not.  I've got them out to 6 stars now, and it's still not iterating beyond TH4.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 02:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, that looks familiar. Recursive wiki templates <3 Those formula could be adopted to work in...I dunno, Excel or Maple or something, yeah? If the wiki can't handle the recursion and thus it can't be shown that way, perhaps one could take a screenshot of some graph etc. of teh results in other program and upload that. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be a good alternative. I discovered that the  default recursion depth is 40, and I think we're reaching that because of how many subtemplates are being used.  I'm going to try folding the subs into the main template to see what happens - the result will be insanely complex, but it might work.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that was part of the problem - it recursed a couple levels further, and now I've got a true bug. Whee.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Bug.png]] alart!! :p It's interesting for me to look at, even if I don't understand, because it's advanced code/math stuff. So either way it's not futile. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Possibly install some sort of spreadsheet widget? Google Spreadsheet is one of the first links to come up. --JonTheMon 16:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oooh. That could solve a lot of problems at once - not only could we do calculations like this, but it would also give a better way to do droprate charts (and easily calaulate the 2nd/3rd level data), birthday miniature charts, some kinds of more complex tables (like QRs maybe)....etc [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be nice, but what I'd like is Extension:Winter, which I've mentioned before. Being able to write 'while' loops into templates would eliminate the need for template recursion, and being able to set and modify values of variables within templates would be wonderful.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So what's the probability/process to get either of these installed? --JonTheMon 17:20, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Poke the right people. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I remember reading about Winter, but I can't find where you brought it up. That's very nice also. It almost makes Wiki-coding like working with a real programming language (if I'm understanding it correctly). Maybe my dreams of coding in Wiki++ are not piped after all! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) User_talk:M.mendel. Google Spreadsheets would actually be better for drop rates, as Jon noted above, but I could still find plenty of uses for Winter. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 20:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Google spreadsheets doesn't let users modify them, though? --◄mendel► 20:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * On the document itself, you can "Share with the world" and "Let people edit without signing in" to get a link that allows anyone to edit it, like this. Granted, they'd be external to the wiki, so changes wouldn't show up in RC, but the owner of the spreadsheet can set up rules to be notified when any changes are made.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Reverts
Tbh you really ought to provide better summaries than "seems too verbose" or "nope" when it involves a large amount of text/changes that isn't just gibberish or something. That just looks condescending to the person you reverted. Moreover, it is much preferable to fix a change instead of reverting it; oftentimes those edits could have useful content in them, even if they are "too verbose". Content over presentation, and all. (T/C) 00:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, when was the last time I used "nope" as a revert explanation? Anyhow, I'll try to incorporate changes more often. --JonTheMon 01:01, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, confusing wikis. :\ I'm not meaning to come across as condescending myself (>.>)... your reverts are in good faith and they are more often correct than not. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:31, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Salvage reverts
Can I ask why you removed the See Also entries from the various salvage kit pages? Here's why I think they are a good idea: I find myself flipping back and forth between the different types of kits frequently and I suspect others do, as well. For example, I can't remember whether Superior is really superior or just has more uses. Or whether I can get a kit that allows me to extract two upgrades safely. The See Also was a convenient place to compare/contrast the different kits. I'm open to other ideas (a comparison chart, for example). If there's a policy I'm not following, please let me know. Thanks! --Tennessee Ernie Ford 11:38, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If you go to the Salvage page it'll show all the kits and their values and uses. --JonTheMon 13:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not ok when it's on the "see also", but make a "Kit Navbox" and everbody'll embrace it and want it colored. -- ◄mendel► 16:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's too small to make a navbox for. I'd say the minimum for a navbox would be like...7 things. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Even navboxes don't describe the related items. and maybe combine salvage + id? --JonTheMon 16:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Still, if it's too few for a navbox we could still list the other kits on the "see also", they could even get a single line so as to not take up too much space. -- ◄mendel► 16:37, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * For salvage kits there are: collector basic, basic, expert, charr, superior, perfect. That's a bit to have links for (single-line idea might work). However, if you're going to want to look at all the other kits, the salvage page does give all of them. --JonTheMon 16:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, sure, Salvage ought to be listed first. Maybe it just doesn't have enough explanation, like "See Salvage to find out about other kit types." -- ◄mendel► 16:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a mention of the salvage article in the summary of a few of the articles. Should it be there? Should it point out the other types there?  Should it be at the bottom? --JonTheMon 17:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I changed that line on Expert Salvage Kit to mention that you can compare the values of the different kits on Salvage. Good/bad?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You worded that well, but for my mind it's in the wrong section. ;-) -- ◄mendel► 17:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm still not sure why it was bad to have a comprehensive See Also listing the available types of kits (I prefer at-a-glance references rather than require someone to read an entire article to compare/contrast). I do like JtM's idea of a combined kit navbox. Would the following work? (after clean-up, adding links, prettifying, ...)

1 - Cost in GP from merchants; cost by trading with collectors is cheaper for Superior kits. 2 - GP/U = Cost (GP) per use; also cheaper via trade. 3 - Perfect Salvage Kits trade for gold and materials worth GP400 and also cost 1 skill point 4 - Starter areas are Pre-searing Ascalon, Shing Jea, and Islan. 5 - Players frequently offer Charr Salvage Kits at a high premium, as it's the only way for Pre-searing Ascalon characters to salvage runes.
 * I could possibly see that on salvage but definitely not as a navbox. A navbox is just a collection of links in a short box. Template:ArmorNavBox is a good example. --JonTheMon 22:10, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked at the navbox example, which looks slick. But not what I had in mind. My plan, then, is to re-organize salvage, including a prettier version of the above matrix. Let me know if you have objections. --Tennessee Ernie Ford 00:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Preview
"Preview" will show it well enough for your purposes. &mdash; so tell me how to make ads appear on preview? -- ◄mendel► 15:28, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Disable Ad-Block? ;) --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, just 'cause you want the template to work with the ads better doesn't mean it should look not-so-hot for others. And would using a copy of the page to work with be sufficient? --JonTheMon 15:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a copy would do. Do you really think teh horizontal style looks that bad? -- ◄mendel► 19:15, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's just so... well, especially that middle part wastes a lot of space. and picture|description|map really isn't my cup of tea. --JonTheMon 19:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The description is too far to the right for my taste, but the TOC needs to be integrated into this some way. -- ◄mendel► 19:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

userpage
I never noticed until now. And you didn't really yoink it from me, the header and content bars are pretty basic, and you didn't use the dropdown templates (you're free to ofc, though I didn't code those, I just customized them). Lol. &mdash; Nova   &mdash;  (contribs) 21:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And now that I think of it, your version looks better than mine. Don't mind me whilst I yoink back. :p &mdash; Nova  [[Image:Neo-NovaSmall.jpg]] &mdash;  (contribs) 21:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I was kinda going for minimalistic, and part of your's fit the bill. And as a kinda still new person at that point, i felt it was best to cover my bases by at least mentioning where it came from. And go ahead and yoink back :P --JonTheMon 21:45, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the move...
Thank you for moving the Traveler's past collections to the proper slot (checked everything else, but missed that missing "/"). &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Health
may i ask why you removed all my notes about the exact helth of some pre-searing creatures? i think its somekind of helpfull for tuto farmers or just interesting to see that a lvl 3 creature has more health than lvl 4 in tutorial. -- bernd_o0 24.05.2009
 * Jon removed the notes where the health is exactly the same as the formula on the health article implies, and left the others intact. I agree that it's interesting, so maybe leaving a note on the health page (and maybe some sort of overview table which creatures have health that is lower than it should be) is in order? -- ◄mendel► 10:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ah okay. did not noticed that. i will pay attention to this in future. -- bernd_o0 24.05.2009
 * You did perfectly fine, asking a polite question like you did is the best way to get about on this wiki. :) -- ◄mendel► 08:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I did not contact you directly. In the reversion note I pointed out the health article. Also, it seems that your signature doesn't link to your userpage/talkpage. It would be preferred if you would do that. --JonTheMon 14:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

On Paragons and Rits
The "Chuckins spears, not holding ashes" is mostly a personal preference. I was refering to Motivation based support/healing paragons. To say such a build should be using a spear is like implying that a caster should be wanding at all times. This may not be a favored build by the community, but it is no less valid. Look at healer Dervishes; there's a class usage most would have laughed at when NF came out, but it's quite valid in RA. Don't knock it til you try it. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lord Twitchiopolis (contribs).
 * The only time I've seen the Paragon and Ritualist professions together is with the Rt/P build, which you'll see every once in a while in AB and such:


 * ...something like that. Most of the useful Motivation shouts are a one-time only effect that wouldn't be helped much at all by lengthening their duration. The Finales already last at least three times as long as their recharge, so...
 * Also, derv healers have been "valid" builds for arenas since...ever since they made HB not a maintained enchant, really. People generally prefer traditional Monks or whatever because they can do more than just redbar, but that doesn't say anything about the build. Entropy [[Image:Entropy Sig 2.jpg]] (C) 20:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)