User talk:Cloak of Letters

Collectors
About collectors, there was a little discussion at Talk:Weapon_and_charm_collectors for future plans, but not many seemed interested in it or interested in doing the work (myself included). --Fyren 03:19, 5 Sep 2005 (EST)

Icons
For the record, I think your icons are pretty good. :) --Rainith 06:37, 11 Sep 2005 (EST)

Quick Reference Links
Why remove the links to quick reference in Category:Monk Skills and Category:Elementalist Skills? I thought those were pretty appropriate. --Rezyk 05:24, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)
 * Since I put them there someone changed Profession Skill Indexes, which is linked on the main page, to point to the quick references too. You're probably going through Profession Skill Indexes to get to either so it looked redundant. I guess that was you.--Cloak of Letters 06:57, 8 Oct 2005 (EST)

and in Skill Lists
I love your edit to Orison of Healing. This is excellent! I was pushing for something similar earlier, but I didn't know about and. Is there a discussion about this method going on somewhere? I'd like to lend my support. &mdash;Tanaric 09:08, 18 October 2005 (EST)


 * We didn't have and until a few days ago. Fryen mentioned it in Scattered Information vs. Overviews on Talk:Main Page awhile ago so when the software update came I said "ah ha!". If you search talk pages for "module" you can find a few places where Tetris L talked about his poor man's project he started before the update (which he will now have to undo). I think it's kinda meh. It's still double information and I'm sure plenty of people will never see it when they edit skills. I want a second (third?) format that has the class and attribute somewhere on it to use in build lists (I actually want build lists to change the number based on the attribute level). It is better than current version though. If you're volunteering to do 400whatever edits wait until after tomorrow so I can fiddle with how they fit together and I can do a read through of the ranger skills.--Cloak of Letters 10:46, 18 October 2005 (EST)


 * No, I'm not volunteering. As I rule, I do little, if any, actual work on the GuildWiki. Still, I'd like to support whoever does end up doing the work.  :) &mdash;Tanaric 12:05, 18 October 2005 (EST)

The weirdness in spacing in your test build table is caused by your placement of the include tags in the skill articles. Basically, you need to put, like so, on the same line instead of on consecutive lines. The newline (enter) between them is getting inserted before the |- from the skill article, making the previous row taller. --Fyren 09:48, 22 October 2005 (EST)


 * I noticed that but didn't want to look dumb double editing.--Cloak of Letters 10:10, 22 October 2005 (EST)


 * We'll love you anyway. --Fyren 10:17, 22 October 2005 (EST)

Some suggestions on this: See Paladin (build) and User:Rezyk/test for examples of all this. --Rezyk 20:44, 4 November 2005 (EST)
 * Use a bit of templating to factor out the common stuff. This way, changes down the line will often require 2 edits instead of 545.
 * An extra cell will be needed to hold exhaustion/upkeep/sacrifice stuff.
 * Structure it so that the content included by a skill fits nicely between a table-cell-start and a table-cell-end (of a different column). Then the top-level code works almost just like a normal table.


 * I wanted the extra cost column to be optional because so many skills don't use it. That would look bad sometimes but many skills lists won't have any fourth cost skills. I found another problem, observe:


 * Without the guide row the exhaustion cell is too big. Any ideas? The software won't take .--Cloak of Letters 08:20, 5 November 2005 (EST)


 * Not 100% sure if this is what you mean, but your exhaustion cell width is free floating just because your colspans aren't consistent (exhaustion takes 1 column while upkeep takes 2).


 * --Rezyk 08:33, 5 November 2005 (EST)


 * That exhaustion cell is too fat. Maybe it's not a big deal.--Cloak of Letters 09:11, 5 November 2005 (EST)


 * Ok another idea.


 * Anyway template:skill row, template:skill row sacrifice or maintaine, template:skill row exhaustion, template:skill row elite, template:skill row elite sacrifice or maintaine, and template:skill row elite exhaustion could cover any format. We could complicate it further with template:skill row signet, tempalte:skill row attack, and template:skill row adrenaline. And template:skill row sacrifice signet, template:skill row maintaine without recharge, and template:skill row no recharge.--Cloak of Letters 00:35, 7 November 2005 (EST)


 * I love the no-divider look (and have updated Template:skill row), but am wary about splitting things into more templates at this stage. Do you really feel that letting descriptions extend into a skill's unused columns is worth it?  To be honest, I'd actually prefer the look of a constant-width description for all rows even if it didn't make templating easier. --Rezyk 04:27, 7 November 2005 (EST)


 * For the signet/attack/adren/noRecharge/etc templates: If we do that, let's make them all as calls to a common underlying template, such that they're really just shortcuts that fill in the &amp;nbsp's and icons for you. --Rezyk 04:27, 7 November 2005 (EST)


 * 1. borders or floating? I like the full table more.
 * 2. blank space or alignment? Some skill lists would have unused space like this:


 * The border method looks worse with the blank space method, I think. I run my browser 800 units wide so it is a little bit of a problem for me. On Galrath Slash "hits." goes onto the second line.
 * 3. cell width. I saw someone said Opera needs extra space on the activation cell. Is that because of a font or what? Now the recharge cell is wider too. I hope that's not to accommodate the single skill that has a triple digit recharge. Originally I had them all the same size even though the activation needed more so it would look pretty. This is less of a problem with the floating method.
 * 4. template overkill. I don't think this is really needed.
 * --Cloak of Letters 05:57, 7 November 2005 (EST)


 * I just found a new toy that might let me come up with something better, but I'll need to see if it works on different browsers. I'll install Opera and check out that width, too.  Yeah, I was accomodating Call of Protection with the extra column width -- interesting note, I checked out how Guild Wars handles it in game, and found that they just horribly truncate the 115 to 11!  Maybe we can get ArenaNet to shorten the recharge so that they don't have this issue either. ^^  Agree with you regarding template overkill. --Rezyk 07:23, 7 November 2005 (EST)

add thumbs, align left, no yellow background on alites that have a thumb image {| border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 {| border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%
 * colspan=3 | Divine Favor
 * [[Image:Blessed Aura.png|24px]] || align=left | Blessed Aura
 * [[Image:Blessed Aura.png|24px]] || align=left | Blessed Aura
 * [[Image:Blessed Aura.png|24px]] || align=left | Blessed Aura
 * While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 10...30% longer than normal.
 * While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 10...30% longer than normal.

{| border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%
 * }
 * [[Image:Contemplation of Purity.png|24px]] || align=left | Contemplation of Purity
 * [[Image:Contemplation of Purity.png|24px]] || align=left | Contemplation of Purity
 * Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6...65 Health, lose one Hex, and lose one Condition.
 * Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6...65 Health, lose one Hex, and lose one Condition.

{| border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100%
 * }
 * colspan=3 | Air Magic
 * [[Image:Martyr.png|24px]] || align=left | Martyr
 * [[Image:Martyr.png|24px]] || align=left | Martyr
 * [[Image:Martyr.png|24px]] || align=left | Martyr
 * look this elite skill has a golden border!!!
 * look this elite skill has a golden border!!!

--Ollj 09:44, 7 November 2005 (EST)
 * }
 * }


 * I'm not even clear on all the issues. I just want to say thanks to both of you, I like what you're doing. Ollj's suggestion looks nice too, though I think his would benefit from Skuld's "sleek" tables. --Karlos 19:59, 7 November 2005 (EST)


 * This is my new favorite pending Opera users:


 * Three types of templates lets the tables resize as needed like this:

{| border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0
 * colspan=3 | Divine Favor
 * align=center bgcolor=#fffcc8 | Rubber/Glue
 * For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, the dealer of that damage takes it instead, maximum 15...67.
 * width=114 |
 * align=center | Contemplation of Purity
 * Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6...65 Health, lose one Hex, and lose one Condition.
 * width=114 |
 * align=center | Contemplation of Purity
 * Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6...65 Health, lose one Hex, and lose one Condition.
 * width=114 |


 * colspan=3 | Air Magic
 * align=center | Gale
 * Knock down target foe for 3 seconds. (50% failure chance with Air Magic 4 or less.)
 * width=114 |
 * }
 * As for icons I still don't like them unless they're big like this:
 * }
 * As for icons I still don't like them unless they're big like this:

{| border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0
 * colspan=4 | Divine Favor
 * [[Image:Blessed Aura.png|64px]]
 * align=center | Blessed Aura
 * While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 10...30% longer than normal.
 * width=152 |
 * While you maintain this Enchantment, Monk Enchantments you cast last 10...30% longer than normal.
 * width=152 |


 * [[Image:Contemplation of Purity.png]]
 * align=center | Contemplation of Purity
 * Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you gain 6...65 Health, lose one Hex, and lose one Condition.
 * width=114 |
 * colspan=4 | Air Magic
 * [[Image:Martyr.png|64px]]
 * align=center | Gale
 * Knock down target foe for 3 seconds. (50% failure chance with Air Magic 4 or less.)
 * width=134 |
 * align=center | Gale
 * Knock down target foe for 3 seconds. (50% failure chance with Air Magic 4 or less.)
 * width=134 |


 * }
 * Of course the main problem with that is almost all the icons would need to be replaced to make it look good.--Cloak of Letters 07:37, 8 November 2005 (EST)


 * I've been pretty ambivalent about the icon issue, but now that bandwidth has proven to be an issue, I suggest not using them for the time being -- simply because of how much they would inflate the size of the profession skill table pages. --Rezyk 23:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm still trying to get the auto-width mechanism without resorting to multiple templates. Sorry for taking so long with it; I've got one last thing to try before giving up (and going with multiple templates for it). --Rezyk 08:35, 8 November 2005 (EST)


 * Yes, I believe I've got it! (and of course the site would go down just when I finally figured it out =P )  Please see how the new template behaves in User:Rezyk/test. --Rezyk 04:35, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I noticed that  is thinner than &amp;nbsp but does the same thing for Internet Explorer. Even with no space in the cell the invisible borders still get in the way so the only thing I can think of is using a format that works in Firefox and woe to everyone else.--Cloak of Letters 16:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Very nice. I updated stuff to &lt;br&gt;s and it just leaves a few pixels now. --Rezyk 23:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't get what you mean by the invisible borders getting in the way...is there still any problem with the templates as they are now? --Rezyk 23:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Here's a table with a &lt;br&gt; cell:


 * Here's one with an empty cell:


 * And this one doesn't have the cell:


 * Plus one with no invisible borders:


 * There's nothing that can be done because the invisible tables in my last format don't work in Internet Explorer. I think we should do this in one attribute chunks starting with those that appear in Hex. When it's done we can make the skill type articles and I'll rename the "quick reference"s and my conquest will be complete.--Cloak of Letters 16:32, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the extra spacing is apparently caused by the invisible-border-method applying the cellpadding=2 to the stat cells (which isn't necessarily bad). Anyways, I guess I'll just follow your lead for the modifications. --Rezyk 04:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Reminder: Don't forget about the skill type text in the descriptions. (or are you omitting those on purpose?) --Rezyk 16:56, 17 November 2005 (UTC)