User talk:Tanaric

For general GuildWiki concerns, please request assistance. I'm notified of any edits to this page via email, so I will be with you as soon as possible if you need assistance. If your concern is private, you may email me at &lt;cory@tanatopia.net&gt; – other methods of contacting me are on my user page. Also, if you choose to email me, you need to include your GuildWiki username or your IP address. I can't unban you if I don't know who you are!

Old conversations and dead threads can be found on /Archives. If you want to dredge something up, bring the whole thread back here.

Recent archiving
I archived most of this page today. The half that was relavent to me went to /Archives. The half that wasn't went to Request assistance/Archive. &mdash;Tanaric 12:08, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

Rewrite
"GameWikis Community Relations Manager" - hehe, I love you Tanaric! Although I would have thought "votes" would have been somewhere in the list of things you hate ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 16:31, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Fixed&mdash;thanks for pointing that out. :) &mdash;Tanaric 17:43, 26 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Just read the re-write, don't know that I ever read the original/previous version, so this may be old but, I love the fact that you have a .plan. :)  Now if I could just figure out how to work the finger command on the wiki.  :P  --Rainith 21:27, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

I'm not saying the bad word again...
...but could you do a little IP checkup on User:Zeni, User:PinkTaco, User:BoneDragon, User:42 Ele Esme and User:NMX112? They've been acting strange over at Talk:W/any Utility Warrior if you know what I mean... ~ Nilles (chat) 20:58, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * If one of us had shell access, we could install and use CheckUser. We'd have to decide on a privacy policy regarding IP addresses first, probably.  --Fyren 21:31, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I was made aware of this in-game. Most are "one-hit wonders", save one. The 2 hour timeframe in which all these contribs were made also leans in the direction of curiousity. Adding to what Fyren stated, only server admins have access to registered user's IPs. There are some ethicical issues involved in registered users cases (Big brother is watching you). I know we do all it when it comes to anons, but I see it as they forfeit any rights to privacy since they are not registered, and the majority are not subject to question, so it usually doesn't matter. This case, however, does seem a bit unorthodox. &mdash; Gares 22:46, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I usually wouldn't say or imply anything like I just did. It's just that in our current situation we've got quite a number of votes for the first edits. I just want to make sure that these votes came from seperate persons, his guildies for example. ~ Nilles (chat) 03:15, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't think it's relevant if they're all different people or not. Having a bunch of one-shot guildmembers come in to approve your build isn't any better or worse than making a bunch of accounts yourself. I'd consider all five as a single vote. &mdash;Tanaric 06:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I should be more precise. I'm not stating that you should consider them as a single vote, but only that I would. I'm not getting involved in another builds voting argument, as it always tends to make me look like an antiwiki dictator. I neither command nor suggest any course of action. As Fyren said, I am unable to look up the IPs, per your request. &mdash;Tanaric 06:32, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * But what should we do then? Should I revoke the votes by claiming socketpuppetry? I really don't want to start a dispute about the rightfulness of the votes in question, that wouldn't benefit the voting process of the build. ~ Nilles (chat) 08:54, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * On a related note, this sort of manipulation seems to be getting more and more prevalent in the builds section. I think we need a formalised policy for checking IPs and destroying malicious puppets while at the same time preserving the privacy of the wiki's users. I'm no admin but I feel this would be a good step forward, and since the build-voting discussion is on I think we should sort this out now as free-for-all puppet voting renders any sort of voting discussion moot. Kessel 09:56, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * IP scanning is not gonna solve anything. Google for "anonymous surfing" or "public proxy" and you've got plenty of proxy IPs at your disposal. ~ Nilles (chat) 10:18, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Well, for a start, do we block the IPs listed under Wikipedia's proxy list? Kessel 10:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Currently, we don't. (Nilles) 66.98.168.78 10:52, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * it replaced all the apostrophes :/ word does that to html i think &mdash; Skuld 10:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Replacing the apostrophes is a mistake of the software of the proxy page. It's meant to prevent the text from screwing up the page's code, a kind of hacking countermeasure if you want. ~ Nilles (chat) 11:05, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

I think an admin is needed here: Talk:Mo/any Bond-Powerhealer. He asked his guildies to "test" his build, and they were more than happy to help. --Vazze 12:05, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

-

After a second look to both pages, I rescind my advice to discount the one-shot account votes. Because the negative votes in Talk:Mo/any Bond-Powerhealer are generally unsubstantiated, and because the positive votegivers repeatedly give acceptable examples as to why the build is good, with no response from the negative people, I'd imagine this build actually does belong in testing.

I fought against GuildWiki builds, and was shot down. I fought against voting being the only requisite for build favoring, and was again shot down. It was obvious to me what a vote-heavy policy would eventually lead to, and judging from these two pages, I was right. I won't argue that the process isn't working for the rest of the builds&mdash;I'm not good enough at Guild Wars to judge for myself.

Other editors/admins are welcome to step in, but I, for one, will not. I'm tired of the constant irrational arguments from a selection of those supporting builds on the wiki in its current form. You made the mess, you clean it up. If no solution bubbles up via discussion, I'll eventually step in and enforce my own policy, regardless of the support of the community. Half of the builds people will ragequit, and work on a GuildWiki fork / reconstitution (like Stabber's doing on Wikia).

Please don't let it get to that point. Some random build suggestions for the Builds community to consider:


 * Consider requiring all votes to be substantiated by in-game testing under the situation the build is meant to cover.
 * Because the above requirement is impossible to verify or enforce, consider electing a committee of trusted editors who are known to always test builds before giving their opinion.
 * Consider striking out all votes that are not substantiated/discussed when arguments come up on the talk page. In terms of Talk:Mo/any Bond-Powerhealer, this would result in an overwhelming majority for favored.
 * Consider a policy on sock/meatpuppets. You currently don't have one. I'm not writing one, as I don't see the enforcibility, and, to be blunt, in this case, meatpuppets might be the only thing that allow Mo/any Bond-Powerhealer to end up in the proper category.
 * Consider forking builds to a seperate website that's better suited for subjective material. I don't understand why guilds on the wiki is taboo but builds on the wiki is essential.
 * Consider an immediate deletion policy for crappy builds, to keep the cruft down.

I've made most of these suggestions before. I never want to discuss builds again.

&mdash;Tanaric 15:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)