Talk:Drop rate/Birthday Present/old

If I'm correct... THIS Article is page number 15,000 :P &mdash; Poki#3, 19:59, 2 March 2007 (CST)

The percentages need redoing at some point &mdash; Skuld 12:18, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

You're too late, I just re-did them. Mwahaha. --   12:20, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Or, I did until you messed them up again... your problem now. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   12:21, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I may have overwrote them, I got an edit conflict with you >.> &mdash; Skuld 12:22, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yep, you sure did. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]   12:23, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

It's not out of 40, it's out of 20... I think you included "total" in your numbers, thus double counting. :p --   14:59, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Please insert new entries ( table 1) at the end so we can keep track and update the 2nd table without having to search all-over table1 --ipolych 10:11, 21 March 2007 (GMT+2)

The Summary of 1st Birthday data is not even close to the current data... --Skax459 17:35, 26 April 2007 (CDT)

Someone screwed with the data..
I got 2 necrid horsemen and 2 wallows.... &mdash; Skuld 06:13, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Whats this? ? &mdash; Skuld 06:27, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Also notice that the last entry marks the total but not the white category. Not sure which is wrong, here.  When it's sorted out, I got a wallow and a jade armor. Cyrogenic 11:13, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Mine
I got a Jade Armor as my first ever birthday present 2 weeks ago. I'm not exactly sure how to add to the table and which statistic I should update... so... someone help me add :P -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 04:36, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Added you. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:54, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Fancy doing mine? I got 2 wallows and 2 necrids, someone changed it and I don't want to mess up the data &mdash; Skuld 10:56, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Uhhh... OK, let's just add that to the bottom, and leave the old entry alone. Will be clear, and won't effect the numbers. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 11:00, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you &mdash; Skuld 11:02, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't thank me for things so trivial ^^; &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 11:03, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm due for 2 more miniatures soonish so could someone explain how to add to that table? Or mebe I'll just let someone help me.... do I just add to Table 1 and then update the last row of percentages on table 1? And leave table 2 alone because someone will update that? -- Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 03:26, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Basically you just do something like this. The rest is optional. Just add the Miniature name, a number in the right place (rarity), a number in the total, sign, update the total numbers (don't forget about the "|-"). Percentage and Level 2 are optional, because someone else can do that if you don't feel comfterable. And remember to use the "Show Preview" button. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 07:44, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

bias
wouldn't this be bias towards people who got greens because they want to show off?Hapsta 14:09, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Seeing a tally of 0 greens, I'd say no. (hint - greens don't come from B-Day presents)  As far as Golds are concerned, possibly... but there's the same risk on every drop chart.  It's inheirant bias, no easy way to remove it beyond telling people not to do it. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    14:18, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Bone dragon does &mdash; Skuld 14:19, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, silly me. Still 0 though. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    14:21, 4 April 2007 (CDT)

Actually, my friend Fullmoon Basara got a Bone Dragon minipet out of his first birthday present about a week ago. Crenel 23:49, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Hapsta is very likely right about inducing some bias by encouraging people to contribute. Yet in statistics you sometimes have to go with the bias when the alternative would be something like collecting no data at all. Wich would be the case for birthday presents, since you cant repeat the experiment yourself. You just have to keep the potential bias in mind when analysing the data. --MRA 15:40, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Second Birthday Present
The section is labled First Birthday Present. What will we do when (if) Second Birthday Presents arrive? --MRA 15:40, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Make a new page. Depends what will the present actually be, but if something random where drop rate can be calculated then yeah. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 17:15, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Where is the second birthday present info from? They're not supposed to start spawning until midnight. -- Gordon Ecker 19:39, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I've already seen a bunch of them, and at least 5 friends have them. --[[image:rollerzerris.jpg|50x19px]]    19:54, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Maybe characters dating back to the beta count as being created a day before release. -- Gordon Ecker 20:03, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, pre-orders got a day's head start. All beta chars are deleted. &mdash; Skuld 20:20, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

O.o
I think somebody screwed up the columns... the "Last update" one says "3". In Purple. --   00:19, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't understand how to use this article
There are only, what, 20 minipets or so from the first season? Why the hell are there a million entries in the first table, all of which have 1 in them? Seems like you should only add a new entry if your pet isn't already in the table -- if it is, just increment the number in the row. &mdash;Tanaric 10:24, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Signature and timestamp. You add the pets YOU got, not add them to other peoples collection. A summary of the number of pets is "hidden" in the Level 2 data. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 10:46, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There is no value to our readers in maintaining individual editors' pet collections. Such an article does not belong in mainspace. &mdash;Tanaric 10:49, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It isn't to "maintain individual editors' pet collections", but to keep better track and better documentation of contributed data. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 12:31, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We have a history tab for that purpose. &mdash;Tanaric 16:57, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Well you can certainly make a new table if you want. This is a Wiki after all. It's just that I never saw a drop rate article that filed different user's findings under one one row :/ &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 18:41, 2 May 2007 (CDT)
 * My apologies, I didn't realize this was accepted practice for drop rate articles. If I feel like pressing my complaint, I'll take it somewhere more appropriate. :) &mdash;Tanaric 23:19, 2 May 2007 (CDT)

Tables should be correct (for now)
I noticed the table was wildly inaccurate when I went to add my latest present, so I recounted the totals and updated the summary table as well. Hopefully it will remain accurate, or at least the totals will. It's a bother checking the numbers when somebody screws up the totals column. -Gildan Bladeborn 11:30, 3 May 2007 (CDT)

Fixing the first year tables was much easier this time around because the totals column was correct, thank goodness. -Gildan Bladeborn


 * Updated and double-checked the counts. Presuming no inadvertant double entries, all should be accurate.  -DaveK 01:00, 8 June 2007 (GMT)


 * I went and updated the data entered since the last person updated the charts, including my own. Yukiko


 * i just went through and used copy paste to check numbers, level one for 1st birthday is good for now, i might check it periodically, im gonna see if i can find a way to make it easier to update teh level 2's but i doubt there is --I EatClowns 03:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Added my info to level 1 data
I added my minis to the level 1 data but didn't want to mess around with the level 2 data cause it's late and don't want to screw it up cause I'm tired. If someone wants to just adde my 5 first year minis and 2 second year minis to the level 2 data go ahead, otherwise I'll get around to it. --Guardian_Angel_MP 11:32, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

I got...
I got a fungal wallow...im not good with these chart thingies so if someone could add it in for me help would be appreciated.:)&mdash; Cheese Slaya  ( Talk ) 00:17, 26 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Same here, if someone could add my presents it would be great.
 * First Birthday present: White Necrid Horseman
 * Second Birthday Present: Gold Water Djinn - Z4nd 17:17, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

How totals are updated
Out of curiosity, how are totals updated? Does someone do it manually with a calculator or is a script used? Does Mediawiki provide scripting support for this kind of thing or is a separate application used? --IAmAI 07:52, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It's manual. -- Gordon Ecker 13:58, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Speaking of updating totals, the second birthday level 1 and 2 charts should now be up to date. -Gildan Bladeborn 14:51, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Drop Rate
Is "drop rate" really the correct term for this? Since they are automatically in your inventory on your 1st (and 2nd etc) Birthdays, is there not a better term? Just curious - Yellow Monkey 09:09, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It's probably not a very good term for it, but "Measure of Rarity" is too esoteric. -Gildan Bladeborn 14:50, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * More to the point, isn't it worthless information as it only represents the birthday gifts of an incredibly tiny - comparatively speaking - and therefore insignificant sample group? All of this kind of faux-statistical info on GWiki is skewed, unrepresentative and misleading. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 78.145.63.244 (contribs).
 * No, see Wikipedia's article on margin of error. The only problem is statistical bias. -- Gordon Ecker 16:45, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Not the only problem. There's also lying. :P --Ryard 20:09, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Did you read that article, or just provide a link, Gordon? It opens with "The margin of error is a statistic expressing the amount of random sampling error in a survey's results. The larger the margin of error, the less confidence one should have that the poll's reported results are close to the "true" figures; that is, the figures for the whole population." Having accepted that definition, what margin of error has been calculated and subsequently applied to the pseudo-statistics reported on GWiki? Games sold > 4,000,000, number of players ≥ 4,000,000; statistical data shown in this article taken from 214 reported first birthday miniatures, 40 second birthday miniatures....  *Repeats slowly* "The larger the margin of error, the less confidence one should have that the poll's reported results are close to the "true" figures." &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.243.249.19 (contribs).
 * No, I didn't read the article, but I am familiar with statistics. Sampling fraction is not nearly as important as sample size. -- Gordon Ecker 05:27, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The beauty of statistics is that you can never know precisely how much error is in any given sample, because if you knew that you wouldn't need to TAKE the sample. All we can really say is that the mean of the sample means should equal the population mean, but since this is just one sample and there's no way to take a census, there's also no way to verify that it's not completely representative.  Obviously we'd prefer larger sample sizes of course.


 * As for lying, the overwhelming majority of reported pets have been common types so far, I'm the first person to even report a green second birthday mini-pet, so I think we can discount people exaggerating about it. Whether people are more inclined to mention rarer minis is also debatable, since again: relatively few have been reported compared to more common types.  I guess this article attracts people who like contributing to largely useless statistics (What exactly would we DO with this data anyways?  Set fiscal policy?  Ha Ha!).  Numbers are fun! -Gildan Bladeborn 23:58, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

Some more birthday drops
I don't have a user account but thought I would add the mini-pets myself and my friend have received. We have about half our toons still to get theirs and I have 2 due within the next couple of weeks, but so far we've accumulated:

2 Siege Turtles, 1 Temple Guardian, 1 Burning Titan, 1 Bone Dragon, 1 Troll, 1 Fungal Wallow, 1 Hydra, 1 Charr Shaman, 1 Jade Armor.

Interestingly, the only duplicate was the Siege Turtle and, even so, we both received one each rather than one of us getting both. As I really haven't a clue how to correctly update this without totally trashing the layout and sums, hopefully someone can add these to the stats for me, when they have a chance. Thanks in advance. -- 86.3.150.116 23:47, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

EDIT: Well, that came quicker than I thought. The extra two that were due turned out to be another Temple Guardian, and another Hydra. -- 86.3.150.116 22:36, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I just got a shiro. i'd add it but i don't wanna screw the entire thing up.24.3.149.18 16:15, 26 September 2007 (CDT)

I got 1 siege turtle 1 mini troll 1 whiptail devourer 1 char shaman and 1 fungal wallow Sory i didn't add them to the table but i don't know how and i didn't want to mess up your table

As of March 4th, 2008
All tables have been given a once over. In the year one data I corrected a few counting errors and added in some mini-pets I'd forgotten about. Both the 1st level and second level are accurate now.

Year 2 didn't have any problems with the numbers (no surprise, only 47 entries!), but whoever started that section formatted it using "0" instead of a "-", which wasn't how year one was handled and I find distracting, so I changed them all to "-" like the previous table. I feel special now. -Gildan Bladeborn 22:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

New system for combined L1 and L2?
i just went through the drop rates for 1st birthday, and found some errors, i was going to do level 2 data, but couldnt tell where the last update on the level one vs level 2 was, no timestamp a bit up on L1. So i made this up, a bit of copy past to start, but then took it my way in the end.

proposed change for miniatures drop rate, combines level one and 2, columns can be selected and copied into word processor to tally totals easily

any comments would be appreciated