User talk:Rapta12740

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D/W Alone With the Reaper
Your comment is valued.. no matter how negative it is to me =) kindly take a look again.. if your opinion still the same, well, i'll just put it up for deletion >_< Drick10 09:27, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Mo/D Monk Vermin Farmer
thanks for the added description and uber favored vote :D.--Gobla 06:05, 17 January 2007 (CST)

On Merges
They weren't random suggestion of merges. I really do think that those 3 FC AB specificied me/e builds should be compiled into one general FC AB m/e build. Those are the only 3 I made a comment in.--Raps4life 01:39, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Something about Builds

 * You are not an admin, you are not above the rules and you are definitly not above acting like a decent human being. You don't have to make fun of everyone you come in contact with.--TheDrifter 16:38, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * I fail to see your point. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:42, 27 December 2006 (CST)
 * There isn't one. He's trolling. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 07:15, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Make what you will from Build_talk:R/W_Bloody_Mess &mdash; Skuld 07:20, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Critizing my intelligence beacuse you don't like one of my builds? Very mature. Honestly, who made you an admin? Your mother? You and SkuldJR (Rapta) are two of the biggest jerks to me on this wiki. Can youy stop personally attacking me every day?--TheDrifter 10:48, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Going down this road will render your arguments useless and yourself suspended/banned. I obviously don't agree with much of what they do, but this does not help at all. Please choose your methods more wisely, Drifter. NightAngel 10:52, 28 December 2006 (CST)

And you're igonoreing that he started insulting me and my build? Honestly Skuld, if you're above the rules stop trying to back people into corners. That's underhanded and is not decent human being behavoir.--TheDrifter 11:02, 28 December 2006 (CST)


 * I'm talking about your stupidass comment on thumpers. &mdash; Skuld 11:26, 28 December 2006 (CST)


 * Nice job for offending me using foul words. Do you get plesure out of being a turd or do you just do it beacuse you feel inadiquite about yourself? Thumpers suck, after all, you are the one that put that build in the unfavored section.--TheDrifter 17:07, 28 December 2006 (CST)


 * Personally it's You, Sir that offends me more than anything else here. Entropy 17:10, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Great. I'm gone for 12 hours and my talk page becomes a battlefield. You guys must love me. =) &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:13, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Everyone loves you rapta... seriously I don't know anyone on wiki that hates you, I think TheDrifter is just jealous.-- Lania Elderfire 01:23, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * I hate him. He's a big nubcake. =) — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 14:48, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * What!?! Rapta is a pure gentleman. He is always kind and helpful, never harsh or arrogant.  His reviews are always fair, evenhanded, and openminded.  How could people say such terrible things about Rapta?--Windjammer 15:26, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * The Nubs are jealous of his leetness :-) --Lania Elderfire 16:32, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * I notice that Many people dosent like Your suggestions and I know why because of the lack in knowledge and experience which you have a little from them. I hope that you come to the D/any The Blessed Dervish build in untested section and explain your vote as a professional in the discussion section. Good Luck and have fun!! Seawaves 21:08, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I'm not sure I follow. You're saying that I make better suggestions? That's awfully flattering. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:17, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * you still have the same problem misunderstanding and lack of knowledge plz reply to my answer in the discussion ;).Seawaves 21:56, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, yes, we all run around with a Sup and a Major rune on. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:59, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Promise Nuker
By the way, mind explaining your comment on the promise nuker that with Glyph of Renewal you "double the damage output"? Lol. I had seen that comment there but hardly paid any attention, considering the overwhelming votes in favor. And the fact that it works very very well. :) NightAngel 07:15, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Build:Rt/A Spirit's Strength Assassin
Please take a look at the merge discussion i started here, ty--Midnight08 00:52, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Just for you
Its my first one too--TheDrifter 23:11, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * You phail. You forgot to put the clear tag. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Ugh, the red color is way too bright. And that icon's been used in too many userboxes already. Entropy 23:16, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, seriously. That's going to the Foundry of Failed Creations. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:17, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * I like the color although it is a bit disturbing. It fits in with the theme of the box and the history of the box. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 23:17, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Communism? =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:18, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Updated with perty linkage. :3 P.S. STOP EDITING WHILE I'M TRYING TO! LOL! — Jyro X 23:19, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Jyro's is bettar. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:19, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I was eating an apple...I thought red would look good...not like a bloody streak...--TheDrifter 23:29, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * lol, caused me too do a double take. Looked at it quick and thought you gave Rapta the box I made for Skuld.  Nice box though...and it offers an interesting explanation of how Skuld makes edits so fast :P&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  23:33, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Damnit, I almost got you on that unsigned. There's always next time I guess. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:33, 28 December 2006 (CST)

The red blinded me too. I apoligize to those with epilepcy. And thanks, it was my first one and I made it in five seconds, so I kinnda expected it to be bad.--TheDrifter 23:35, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Build
Dude love your Me/Mo Migraine build! - Dr Dulittle 23:44, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * um if u mean This Me/Mo Migraine Build... then i have only 1 word to say... lol--Midnight08 23:47, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah... about that... I didn't make it. I'm the one who's going against it. =P In fact, that reminds me, I have an unfavored vote to make. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:48, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * LOL thats harsh, but happy to be any everyday reminder that unfavored builds should be shot down! :P - Dr Dulittle 23:51, 28 December 2006 (CST)

And i thought that build had me laughing
This Comment "(wow, I can't believe I'm doing this.)" almost killed me..--Midnight08 00:00, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Strengthed Judge
We've had our differences, but I totally agree with you on this build, it plain sucks. I only know because I tested every single application of VoS I could think of when designing the Build:R/D VoS Archer. I was being totally honest on the unfavoured review when I said I was going to post it as a hoax to make a point (see my second post at http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10095591). I suppose you will be coming to vote unfavoured on my archer now :P--Windjammer 15:17, 29 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, it helped me catch another unsigned vote. =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:18, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Build Question
Sorry I'm dumping this on you, but you seem to do a lot with builds, and i don't want to make changes I don't understand. Specificly regarding Build:Team_-_55/Hero_-_Famine, should it be in categories before it is vetted? Do we consider hero builds team builds? Thanks! -- Oblio (talk) 04:15, 31 December 2006 (CST)
 * Builds should not be in any category other than Category:Untested_builds until they are vetted or voted unfavored. The categories should be labled at the bottom of the page in a commented out section like I just fixed the categories for that build you linked. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 12:57, 31 December 2006 (CST)

another for your list
Build:E/any Shockwave Warder

or archive it, sandstorm > shockwave &mdash; Skuld 05:35, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Secondary Professions
Thanks for cleaning up those articles. Maybe start working on the Effective Guides too? :) Entropy 23:47, 2 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I was looking at those. A bit on the long side for a new player, IMO. I doubt a new player would want to read all that. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:49, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Simply better?
w.r.t. Rt/A Flagrunner: I considered the Mend Body and Soul - but why is it "simply better"? It casts a bit faster (good!) cycles a bit faster (good!) and has a slightly bigger heal (good!). The bonus of removing conditions doesn't actually happen since you have no spirit. The only problem is that it's 66% more expensive than Soothing Memories (costs 5, while Soothing Memories costs only 3 any time you have an item spell or the flag or a vine seed or anything in your hands). So, while I think MBaS is a fine choice, it's not as efficient, granting 115 healing instead of 100, but for a Health per energy of 23 HPE rather than 33.3 HPE. I personally like the efficiency angle, since the two spammables are already fast, but I think both could work. --Epinephrine 15:25, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I decided to put MBaS as variant. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 15:28, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * hehe, I was adding Shadow of Haste as a Variant I think at the same time :)--Epinephrine 15:31, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Build talk:Mo/D Mystic Benediction
User hostility, much? =P — Jyro X 16:23, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, I know. People like that seriously need to open their eyes. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:26, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Some Complaining about a build
Okay Rapta, I realize you seem to have an affinity for vague insults when it comes to judging peoples' builds, and I have a rather strong resentment for how you are communicating with others. You are crass, rude, disrespectful, and obtuse. You made some unbelievably asinine comments on a build of mine. If you don't remember it then here it is: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build_talk:Me/any_Irritation_Mesmer#Discussion. First of all, I made mention that skills could be interchangeable. Power Drain could easily replace Leech Signet if you seem to want to have a hissy fit over it. Energy management was improved with a secondary build of it. Whether or not it's been "done-to-death" is irrelevant considering the skills, attributes, armor, and weaponry are different, although similar in some cases. Self-heal can easily be implemented by removing the Resurrection Signet which, by the way, I added for those that may use it in PvE so your snide little comment was unnecessary. You need to start thinking outside the box and start realizing that although you may not be partial to it, the build should be graded on functionality, performance, and purpose. You are not fair with your reviews, even-handed, or open-minded. You need to seriously grow up and stop thinking that you hold a significant bearing on here. If you wish to assert your "admin powers" on me or whatever feel free. If you do, it'll merely show how you just can't take negative feedback, even though you seem to be an expert on it.--Dhileas 09:03, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm... you're complaining to me about a perfectly valid vote that I made, which brought up obvious faults in your "build". Every newbie build-writer and their mom has complained to me about an unfavored vote. The thing is, I couldn't care less. I am perfectly fair with my reviews; if it's a good build, I'll vote favored. How about you grow up? I'm not the one bickering and putting up these "threats" to voters. If you're going to bring that up, bring that up in the talk page, rather than bringing up your own obvious faults on my talk page. Don't complain to me if your build isn't good. Thinking outside the box? That's what I've been doing the entire time on the wiki. But I seriously don't believe "thinking outside the box" means "vote favored for crappy builds". It's not happening. This, as Karlos would say, is a "one way communication" you don't need to respond. Unfavored is unfavored. And look, you can't seem to make a new section for your comment. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:20, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Agreed :P Criticism backed by examples is about as close to ideal voting as you can get which is what rapta did.  It's not like rapta never votes favored on unique builds(Not a fifty five 16:24, 5 January 2007 (CST))
 * It's deja vu all over again. It's almost laughable how many new users post a build, receive unfavored votes, and immediately jump all over the voters with this that and the other thing in favor of their build...and of course the natural result is anti-Skuld, anti-Rapta rants like this. I am for adding a disclaimer to the "Builds" guide: Be prepared to accept and receive criticism in a civil manner. Entropy 20:40, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * I was thinking about making a list of typical newbie responses. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:51, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Before You Criticize More Builds
What happened to my Frenzy Assassin? I am very angry at its disappearance >:( 74.245.59.224 21:10, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * No idea. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:10, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * Nvm. If you mean this one, it was archived. We have Burst of Aggression now. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 21:11, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Burning Arrow Variant
(just doing what skuld said) --Dazra 16:32, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * "Scrap that, it was the best prophecies had. Change this to burning arrow and list that proph-only users can use poison+kindle, and proph+factions can use apply + ? &mdash; Skuld 16:22, 24 December 2006 (CST)"
 * User_talk:Dazra/builds/ranger/R/Me_burning_arrow_forest_farmer
 * "Add it to the poison arrow page, I think, it has all the guide on there and its mostly the same route — Skuld 03:56, 6 January 2007 (CST)"(User_talk:Dazra)
 * Alright. Formatting policy says one bar, so just state what skills should be swapped out for what. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:38, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * Alright, Will Update without a skillbar. --Dazra 16:45, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Admin
Are you an admin? -- Sigm@  (talk|contribs) 13:48, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * Damnit, why does everyone keep asking that... No! =P &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 14:06, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's cos u have good grammer n spelling unlike the rest of us oiks :P Sigm@, see Administrators &mdash; Skuld 14:10, 7 January 2007 (CST)
 * This admin thing is popular now. You're not the only one Rapta. I've seen this on a few user pages, including mine. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 14:22, 7 January 2007 (CST)

Well you're name is cool. -- Sigm@  (talk|contribs) 13:14, 9 January 2007 (CST)

P/R ParaThumper
Rapta, can you explain your reasons for RV in the talk page please? I do think the new version is better. Also, aside from the bar and attribute changes, lots of notes were cleaned up. I would prefer the pre-revert version, thank you. --Silk Weaker
 * Hey, since you haven't replied yet, I will take the liberety to revert the revert on the grounds that it was a mistake (you explained it as a revert of an anon. edit), and that if you wish to cancel my revert before continuing the discussion, I will be happy to oblige ^^. Also, you haven't really supplied a reason for your revert, even if it was by an anon., I believe that it should hold the same merit, so, just reply as soon as you can be bothered to, thanks. --Silk Weaker 03:01, 8 January 2007 (CST)
 * Major edits to builds listed as tested = Bad. You of all people should know better. =) &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:10, 8 January 2007 (CST)

A/R Critical Threat
In an attempt to better understand your criticism, can you explain your comment of "Too much redundancy within the build"? No two skills do the same thing unless you include two interruption skills so I don't quite understand, and if I have any hopes of making it a more viable build, I would like to understand. Thanks. Defiant Elements 21:31, 10 January 2007 (CST)

A/E Rodgart's Empty Palm
Since the build was put into "Unfavored Builds" I've made changes to it and put it BACK into "Untested Builds". Am I allowed to reset the discussion/rating page so that people don't arbitrarily throw it BACK into "Unfavored Builds" before testing it? KnightSilent 21:47, 10 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, if the change was major enough, it becomes valid for a revote. The old vote should be tagged with "(old)" or something, and a new Rate-a-build should be put up. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:16, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * I've Archived the original Vote/Discussion and put a link to it on the page with the new vote/discussion. Also changed the name of it to fit what it was supposed to be. Hopefully, with the new incarnation, as well as a better description of how the build is meant to be used, it won't be voted down so quickly :p KnightSilent 18:29, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Umm...why was the link to the Archived Vote/Discussion removed? KnightSilent 22:05, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * It wasn't. I moved it to the top of the page. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:05, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * D'oh. My eye just skipped right over that to the Page Contents box. Should I put a mention of the Archive into the Build Re-Done section so folks know it's there? I guess most Wiki vets will notice it right away and know what it's for, but not everybody is used to the Wiki format. Any tips to improve my wiki ettiquette would be appreciated KnightSilent 22:13, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * No need. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:18, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Build:Mo/any Efficient PVE Monk
Wait!!!!

By recreating the build at its old name, you effectively wipe the build history. It would be better to get it moved back, then modify it further. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:29, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, crap. You're right. Thanks for the heads up.&mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:31, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I can move the version with "PvE" over the old name at "PVE" - thereby restoring the edit history (ie: who contributed what and when). You could then restore your changes from that point. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:35, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, this is generating too much confusion. You can go ahead and delete the old "PVE" since the history's already over in "PvE". I have a copy of the updated code for the build. Sorry about that. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:37, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * The problem is the edit history - in PvE you show the status as of a certain date - but the history tab has lost tracking of who made what changes / edits and when they did them. That's a problem with our license, where contribution histories should be maintained. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:38, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, nevermind - I had them backwards - I see what you're doing - cool! --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:40, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, sorry I cause too much confusion in that. Usually there's no one moving the build while I'm editing it. =P
 * And I never knew that. So even if you go into a user's contributions page, it won't even have listed edit in there either? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 18:47, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * When an article/build gets moved, all user's contributions pages get updated to the new name. If the article is then deleted, all the affected contributions are also deleted from the user's contributions page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:49, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Policy
I went through your talk page discussions hoping I wouldn't find any other incidences regarding you breaking site policy, including build policy. I found you were warned about striking out other's votes here, which violates build vetting procedure which is apart of build policy. Today, I find you broke GW:1RV twice going back and forth moving Build:P/W PvE Speedchucker. I think you need to take a step back and realize that a user, any user, is bound to work within Guild Wiki policy. If you want to come back and continue your work after your ban, I think that's great, but I hope this time off will give you perspective, give you time to relax, and remind you that no one is above policy. No hard feelings. &mdash; Gares 11:59, 13 January 2007 (CST)
 * Woah. I go away for 3 days and I somehow end up getting blocked during that time. :P Anyways, thanks for telling me what happened there. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:28, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Remember that bans increase with more offenses. I suggest not taking the advice in the above paragraph lighty. &mdash; Gares 22:14, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Look, please stop putting false reasons for unfavored voting, you are just making people think wrong about the build and the most important you will be banned sooner or later for this so take this as an advice for your well-being. Here is the example: I improved my build Strengthened Rampager to have much greater DPS which I can prove.
 * There is now (almost) constant increased attack speed by 33% (currently 90%-100% of the time, previously it was ~50%) = much better DPS.
 * Added pet to additionally increase DPS.

You said there is no speed boost. - wrong: 50% time -> 100% time is a great boost, you now have constant speed boost which leads to better overall damage. In other words the improvement is the same as between RaO thumper with 0 beast mastery (10/20 sec RaO) -> 20/20 sec RaO which

You said the damage is now lower. - wrong: even without pet, using Heket's rampage results in greater DPS, see Discussion for the result of test. LeDeni 14:30, 13 January 2007 (CST)
 * That's great, man. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:28, 16 January 2007 (CST)

PvE Domination Mesmer
You archived the Talk, which is fine, but shouldn't the votes be kept on the current talkpage (as they're still valid)? Entropy 17:20, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Meh, 11-5 doesn't really make sense anymore (you need like what... 9 more votes unfavored to make a case?). If anyone has an objection, they can just make a case on the discussion page. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 17:21, 16 January 2007 (CST)

RaO Spear
Hey! Here's an idea, I found a lost love, and had some fun, make what you will of it:

Blazing Spear can be changed, of course. Maybe a deepwound, interrupt, or Wild Throw.

Attribs I've used are: BM 11+1+2, Expertise: 6+2, Spear Mastery: 12 Perhaps Spear 11 BM 12, but the diminishing returns makes this perhaps better. Enraged is a lot of pressure, almost constant spikes if coordinated with other players and Blazing Spear, and constant interrupts, etc. It looks pretty good to me. --Silk Weaker
 * After adrenaline is cahrged up, 3/4 life on an 80 armor before Enraged Lunge recharges (Pet attacks are slightly slow anyway, so it comes after). I think it can be considered a spike, not in the sharp sense, but in the sense that not a lot of healing could go through in the time allowed if coordinated. It's definetly more pressure orientated than the current W/A shadow steppers, but it can do this very often. +80 every 5 seconds, interrups, and +40s for fun is quite a lot. It's not even "faking" spikes, but dealing that amount of damage that every few seconds could easily put monks on thier toes, guessing when the real spikes are coming. --Silk Weaker
 * I've always kinda liked this one:


 * Something like that. IMO pet isn't needed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 23:29, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Those are different aproaches, but the one I listed above is more fore pressure. While not precise at all, pets, they are very useful for pressure, the same reason why Thumpers are great but aren't used for spike orientated builds (the other reason, of course, is because warriors can shadow step and have heals). I did play with the build you have though, but instead of Natural Stride, I had Apply Poison, making it very much like a bow ranger. Anyway, what do you think? Enraged Lunge is VERY generous pressure. It does spike-level (or rather, higher than spike level damage, albeit with only 1 attack whereas others have 2-3 skill chains) damage at pressure-level rate (once per 5 seconds, not to mention other attacks and spears). It's a load of damage in terms of pressure, and, as said before, put monks on their toes. --Silk Weaker 06:34, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * It's not about the raw damage. With Cruel Spear, you have deep wound, which can provide an excellent spike when used. Thumpers provide constant pressure through KD as well as Deep Wound. The pet isn't entirely necessary - with Thumpers, they're used because it's required. Since you have them, there's pet skills that are used with them. The only reason you should use a Spear with a ranger would be to spike with Deep Wound while ranged - something you can't do with bows, and to spam Paragon attacks like a normal paragon wouldn't be able to (i.e. Harrier's Toss being 10 Energy). But either way, a Paragon would be able to use it much better than a Ranger can, so there's really no point IMO. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:14, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * "The pet isn't entirely necessary - with Thumpers, they're used because it's required." Many would disagree. Indeed, Beast Mastery are run on very dangerous levels of mastery nowadays, and not simply "coating". There are several posts on the Guru, in the Guildwiki section in fact, where several experienced poster have commented on the importance of pets in a thuper. You can have a read there, and I've read many similar discussions.
 * Deepwound, yeah, that is a regrettable loss. I am placing it in the context of pressure and coordinated spikes, however. Usually there are two or more sources of deepwound anyway. The output provided is such that it makes it worth it. I brought it up with you becuase I thought you might be interested, in any case, so I hope you'd try it on some dummies or noobs in RA, or in PvE. The damage is, I insist more than spike worthy, about as painful as Decapitate, except with a spear attack used at the same time and spammed once every five seconds. There isn't a lot of control in it, but pressure is pressure. Constant interrupts and superior damage (Predator's Pounce alone is almost an Executioner's Strike, but spammed) is by no means inferior pressure than Knock Downs. While the latter is very useful, I insist that it depends highly in context. KD is great, but so is dealing 150~ more damage every time a thumper would knock down a target. In any case, I'm just restating my comments above. I wish you'd look at it the way I do, but no worries. =) Have a look at the build which I am using this as a part of if you have the time. --Silk Weaker 11:46, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Thanks!
Thanks for all your efforts to get the builds updated to work with the modified templates! I was expecting more free time today to work on it, but something came up at the last minute. And as long as I'm posting here ... when you get a chance, be sure to post over at Build_talk:Main_Page/redesign_templates on any of the suggested refinements to the tags, or adding additional ones. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:09, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * No problem at all. Always glad that I could help. =) &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:04, 19 January 2007 (CST)