User talk:Xtreme IT/builds/Me/W Illusory Forge Runner

Rate-a-Build
(Echo+Inspired+Revealed Hex variant)

Tested
 * 1) This build provides the best way for a Mesmer to run Droknar's Forge. With 54 secs of BS, or "Shields Up!" it is best for Me/W due to the low self-healing, and tanking foes capacity of the Mesmer. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 15:10, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 2) Very similar to my pre-factions Me/W forge runner which I used to run people from beacons to droks (used hex breaker instead of revealed hex) shown in video (with old style interface) Dark Luke 18:51, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 3) Judging from the videos, the performance for a solo-runner is very good. ~ Nilles (chat) 06:44, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Unfavored
 * 1) Takes too long, W or even Mo can run this better and faster. -- Sigm@ [[image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|19px]] (talk|contribs) 07:21, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Original Author's Comments
I am just scribing what I see in that video. Haven't tested it. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 19:38, 3 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Is this Avarre's? I saw some screenshots of that &mdash; Skuld  20:14, 3 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Unless Avarre is Chinese, I would say not. I am just noting down what that video at the bottom used. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 20:18, 3 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Been testing this out all day. I can now semi-reliably make it to Dreadnought's Drift with it, but still get owned by the Stone Summit Herders there. Either it's my bad luck, or they have added several Crippling Anguishers to the north end of the Drift. More than 3 at least, which is the largest number of hexes this build can quickly take care of. Anyone have any better luck? &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 16:21, 4 June 2006 (CDT)
 * You just happened to have bad luck. In case if you die in Dreadnought's Drift, rezone into Lornar's Pass immediately, return to Dreadnoughts and try again. --Dark Luke 08:26, 5 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hi Dark Luke. Welcome to the wiki! I will experiment with this build some more later tonight. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 16:50, 5 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I tried this build a little and its main weakness seems to be hexes. Three at a time is far from enough, especially against the Stone Summit, where the Heretics and Golems will often use two hexes each on you and can come in large numbers. Expel Hexes removes them well, but sets you up to be surrounded and is only available in Factions. &mdash; DarthMarth 6:58, 6 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Without Factions, I would recommend Echo as your elite because you can have an extra hex removal, or to lengthen your balance stance so you can run through long clusters of Tundra Giants without getting stuck.

Other Comments
Relevant comment from the author of the video. This build article should be tweaked then. I have sent him a PM inviting him to collaborate on this article. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 01:09, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

Does this really need to be under the "Untested Builds" section? It has been tested through that video, of course. We know it can be done, just requires a lot of skill. --Rapta 22:51, 13 June 2006 (CDT)
 * Oh, and it's "Illusionary", not "Illusory". :P --Rapta 22:52, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Yes, all builds (except the premades) start out as untested. This build shows a lot of promise, and I know that in principle the run can be done, but I personally haven't managed it with the build as stated. So I can't vouch for or against it. As for illusionary vs. illusory, they share many meanings, but illusionary has a stronger connotation of error and illusory a stronger connotation of deception. That is to say, an illusionary runner is one who isn't really a runner but fakes it convincingly at parties to impress chicks. An illusory runner is a runner that sneaks by using deception, misdirection, and cunning. &mdash; Stabber &#x270d; 23:28, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm new at this editing thing, so I hope I don't step on anyone's feet. I tested this build today and had absolutely no luck. It appears in the video he had a lucky good spawn-- I found myself unable to avoid such enemies in my own spawn. Has anyone else successfully done this run yet? -Melchoir-

Commentary on the Illusory Way of Running
Hi all, I'm Feena. Have successfully tested this build. It works great, though it needs alot of luring and aggroing experience as well as a not too bad spawn at Lornar's Pass. Keeping up Illusion of Weakness as long as possible is vital to this build. Echo is useless here (see below for a short explaination.) Expel Hexes is strongly advised to use.

If you maxed out Tactics, it is totally useless to equip Echo as your Elite, because Balanced Stance already lasts 18 secs. That's by far enough to make it through the hard passages. Also consider Casting time cost, Energy lost, Time for preparing a buffered Echo (at the entrance of the "Worm tunnel"), Motionlessness when casting Echo in the beginning. Having only one Hex-Remover, Inspired Hex, when facing the Ice Golems (or when using BS) is dangerous and risky, especially at the passage to Dreadnought's Drift. Then you gotta have a decision between echoing BS or Inspired Hex. Echoing Inspired Hex is also bound to really good timing. You don't know when you gotta remove this extra hex. Expel Hexes is much better here.

Due to the tweaks at Lornar's Pass it is advisable to use Expel Hexes. I only could make it through there by using this Elite throughout the run. Echo was totally useless, although one could also echo Inspired Hex for an extra hex-remover to encounter larger ice golem groups. But it's simply not worth it. 'The build just doesnt work with Echo anymore.' Using Channeling as cover Enchantment against the Enchantment-stripping Avicara is also very advisable when running Camp Rankor -> Droknar's Forge.

As for Dreadnought Drift, simply cast Illusion of Weakness and Healing Signet quickly and make your way through the right side of the Drift. In the worst case you will encounter one heretic before running through the 1st Tundra Giant group and maybe an extra Ice Golem. With Expel Hexes, Hex Breaker, and Inspired Hex, you can remove 4 hexes at least (if you cast and recharge Hex Breaker upfront before getting into aggro range). Moreover, Expel Hexes has a nice recharge time ...

One final note The attributes for this build are not correct. First of all, I would not apply a Superior Rune of Illusion. -75 HP are simply not worth it. A major one is totally sufficient (-35 HP). Dont forget to use a Mask of Illusion as well = +3 Illusion Magic. Use Minor Runes of Inspiration and Domination Magic, and Superior Vigor (+50 HP) to counter the HP reduction of Major Rune of Illusion.
 * Illusion Magic:    9 + 1 + 2
 * Fast Casting:    	8 + 1
 * Domination Magic: 	2 + 1
 * Inspiration Magic: 	0 + 1
 * Tactics:           	12

I am of the opinion that it's totally unneccessary to take the left turn thru the mountain cave at Talus Chute to get to Droknar from Rankor. Taking the right turn is easy and directer.

Final comment: I would like to alter the whole article for using Expel Hexes, for Echo doesn't work anymore with this build since the update. --Luobailong 17:48, 7 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Would you mind making a Video demonstrating the Expel Hexes variant? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:20, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
 * And this build was created before the Major Rune buff. The difference between 1 Superior and 2 Major runes is only 5 HP, not much of a difference. But good on catching that. Best to have as much HP as possible. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:22, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Sure, why not. Though, I had some problems running FRAPS recently with the new Omega Ati Drivers. Will look into it and make the video as fast as possible. :D --Luobailong 18:00, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Completed a 40mb Lornar's Pass video of this run demonstrating Expel Hexes and the idea of this build in general. Decided not to publish the whole video of the run due to its inhuman size. 40mb is enough. If any1 feels desperate at any point in this run, I may reconsider and upload split parts of the video. Google Video got too bad quality. If any1 has an idea or webspace for 40mb of Video, please PM me :D. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 17:16, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Video is up. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 08:45, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Thank you very much. 'preciate the work you put into this. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 08:47, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Improving the build
I noticed that the Expel Hexes variant does not work as optimal as previously assumed for this kind of build and profession combo. We decided to take Expel Hexes instead of Echo because of a good 2nd hex remover. However, dropping Hex Breaker, and equipping Inspired Hex, and Revealed Hex does solve the problem properly. My attributes and skill suggestion on the basis of Echo for the big build's roll-up are:

Please leave your comment for changing, or leaving the build the way it is. &mdash; Luobailong   (talk|contribs) 14:32, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * With the help of Echo we almost gain unlimited Balanced Stance access all the time. We can activate 3x BS without a gap. Then follows a 2sec gap.
 * The two hex-removers, Inspired Hex and its Factions duplicate Revealed Hex work fine for Droknar's. There is even the possibility to echo one of them.
 * This makes Droknar running with this build far more reliable.
 * Big roll-up cos of greater efficiency of the "new" build done. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 15:10, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Since the former build is properly covered here and in the article, I don't think there is anything speaking against putting it back to tested again. ~ Nilles (chat) 19:24, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Still work after the Droks nerf? i heard they added a few Ice GOlems... --Frvwfr2 17:02, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Get rid of the tag...
There's now a tag at the top of the screen saying that the information may be incorrect because of the Nightfall update, but I checked the update information and nothing would affect this build enough for it to make it 'untested'. The spawns don't matter much if you know how to use the build correctly, and it says on the build page that it's a good build for running in general, and not just to Droks. Permission to remove the tag? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.89.253.231 (contribs) 20:35, 21 November 2006.
 * I guess it can be removed, since there doesn't seem to be any comments on being nerfed. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 19:07, 25 November 2006 (CST)

After the 2nd AI nerf
Changing to Untested. No one can run it on Mesmer yet again. At least not with this build. &mdash; Luobailong   (talk|contribs) 18:49, 15 December 2006 (CST)


 * The so-called "2nd AI nerf" was actually a bug that caused some caster monsters to be permanently aggroed. Dark Luke 19:00, 15 December 2006 (CST)
 * And despite A-Net's patch, this bug is still present.Cyrogenic 22:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
 * The bug is still presented, though it got tweaked here and there; now it seems even more random. Tyrian Monsters who can still follow you like hell: Avicara Guile, Grawl Crone, Siege Ice Golem (can happen), Stone Summit Heretic. It seems that certain monsters simply got Boss Aggro Moral, which never decreased no matter how far you escaped. &mdash; Luobailong  [[image:Luobailong_sig.gif|32px]] (talk|contribs) 05:41, 22 December 2006 (CST)


 * Has anyone tried running the build to Droks after A-Net's patch to stop the permanent aggroing? I'll try aswell and post my results. --Master Mesmero 04:48, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Need help testing an alternate...
I recently created a W/Me, and after I saw this article I decided that I would try it with a Warrior primary to see if the build could be reversed (and if it work work as well without FC). I figure the extra armour could add to the survival rate, and Strength could be used to power running skills.

But I'm no build tester (I'm doing this purely out of interest). I don't play Guild Wars very often, and I'm not a very advanced player. Plus, I'm only lvl 17 and I just got to Beetleturn last night, so I'm a long way from being ready to test it with my character.

So if you would like to help or have any advice it's much appreciated.

Thank you!


 * Using Illusion of Haste as your main running skill, a Warrior should have severe energy problems.