Talk:Gate of Madness (mission)/Archive 1

Plz read this before u want to edit the article :

Guys, to be honest, killing shiro is easy and safe if u get all the blessing(it would be easier if u pull shino out of the gate). No specific build & skills(eg. ward, ss, sv, mesmer skills, knockdown etc) is needed/essential (even no wildblow is ok), so plz dun add more suggestion/tips on killing shiro that is not really really helpful.

There's a lot of suggestiones in the "Tips for Defeating Shiro" now, some players are very confused by that and dun able to decide which skills/heros/henchman should they bring. I know u guys r very kind and like to provide some help to the players, but plz conider my words before u want to modify this entry. Hokit 22:21, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * I agree on the most, but you must take into consideration who is giving this advices, like an example, me. I post only truth and possibles, and have the pictures to prove it and also the titles. So please if you have any questions about my postings, find me in the game as Lck King I can email you the JPG's of the quest's and posting I modify.--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * Looks like I'll have try the doorway trick - thanks for all the tips! So far, whole Nightfall campaign has been amazingly easy to solo, thanks to heroes. However, with my usual team and strategies I can't win this mission. Lich dies in a few seconds, np. Then I capture the shrines for bonus while ignoring Shiro. Shiro can't kill my team, but I can't get Shiro past 20-30% HP due to Battle Scars + Impossible Odds healing him. Thank god he doesn't have his old meditation anymore. - 192.6.19.202 03:59, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

You know what you can do, put a monk at the corner on the left hand side of the temple door on the outside, and bring 2 or so warriors. Then when Shiro attacks the monk the warriors will surround him and trap him, and when he tries to switch target after the monk dies, he won't be able to move to the target and will just spam battle scars/Impossible odds, allowing your team to wand him to death. Of course, it won't work until he's on low health and using Impossible odds, as he has riposting shadows before that time. I did it solely by accident twice with hench+heroes, The first time he riposting shadows out, but the second time he was on low enough health, he was then wanded to death. 220.240.69.209 01:52, 24 December 2006 (CST)

A good strategy is to have 2 A/R critical rangers with Favorable Winds and Disrupting Accuracy and Way of the Assassin, Critical Eye and Needling Shot and have them both needling shiro when hes below 50% health since he will use Impossible Odds under 50% health and will maximaze the chance of interruption. -- Superman5311 - December 19th, 2006, 19:05EST

GOD DAMN THIS MISSION IS SO HARD

Spoil victor does work wonders =) When doing this mission, forget echo/ss......go echo/spoil victor O_0 works well even as you're going through the mission. Blood well spam also works great since there's tons of corpses.

I find it a little unfair that the only way to beat Shiro now is to use Spoil Victor. He is far too powerful and every one is struggling. Personally, I have got him down to 10% health with Master of Whispers as Spoil Victor/blood while 30% health with Master of Whispers Spiteful Spirit, reckless haste and price of failure. Not only that, but Impossible Odds can also be combined with Battle Scars, as Impossible Odds is only a skill, not a stance. So it IS possible to hench this mission, but you'd have to get lucky and hope that most of your hench don't crowd together and get slaughtered. Also, Wild Blow for battle scars will help. Darkobra


 * This is not truth, shiro can be beaten without spoil victor.--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * I agree, Spoil Victor is not necessary.

I fixed the note on the bonus - you actually have to capture the shrines, a la AB, not kill the Margonites there. Shido 17:30, 4 November 2006 (CST) Also, they'll come uncapped after an amount of time. Shido 02:00, 6 November 2006 (CST)
 * After they become neutral, you can go and recapture the shrines to refresh your Gods' blessings, should the fight go on for more than 20 minutes (as it often does for me). This is especially useful if your tank as acquired DP because the blessings - particularly those regarding armor and health - can make a difference during that last 10% of Shiro's health. Skyreal 08:42, 11 November 2006 (CST)

Another possible help would be Norgu with Psychic Distraction and Signet interrupts as his only skills. Robotic interrupts ftw. Shido 02:00, 6 November 2006 (CST)
 * I've also totally destroyed this mission with a geomancer tank build. With Stoneflesh Aura, Armor of Earth, Stone Striker, Mantra of Earth, and Ward Against Melee, I took ZERO damage from both bosses' normal attacks, with the only damage coming in being lifestealing from Battle Scars. Shido 20:03, 17 November 2006 (CST)


 * I used a hench mesmer to beat the mission, Norgu would be a fine adition, but it will take the spot tha tyou could use on a good monk of a good warrior (which if you runned him properly and with good stances can be key on the mess)--A.Burgos LCK 02:48, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Easily done with bots, and without specific skills. You can see all the strategy I used in this screenshot (Sorry for the italian text) --Mercurio 09:24, 14 November 2006 (CST)

By the way I altered the reading of the lich begin weak vs fire... I know for a fact he is as an experienced fire ele (13months +) I can see quite cleary how much damage I'm actually doing. and how much of a percentile of my hard hits actually do. shiro has 110AL vs fire damage... (Effectively only taking 56dmg from a 112 metor 50% reduction)The lich himself only has 50al Vs fire damage taking approximatly 25% MORE damage than is specificed on my skillbar. (My flares hit him for 70 when they only deal 56 and metors 140) Another note about the liches skills I have screenshots of all his skills (The two of them) but I don't know howto make a template for them and I can't upload images as the server is transfering. ''Hunger of the lich: (5energy 3/4cast) Attack (monster only) If this attack hits target foe it removes one enchantment. if an Enchantment is removed gain 100health and 5energy.'' Also Life vortex: (5Energy 2cast 10recharge) Skill (Monster only) Steal up to 200 health from each foe within 30feet Yes it actually says "feet" although I have no clue as to how far that is in game measurement.
 * Thanks for the info on Lich skills, I'll try and put those up as soon as possible and add them to the article. I also modified the section about the fight with Shiro, where it says he as all the skills he did in the last mission in Factions, I don't believe that's true as I've yet to see him use Meditation of the Reaper, nor Echoing Banishment yet. --waywrong 03:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Really? I use a fire ele, and with 16 fire magic my fireballs and meteors hit exactly 200 on lich. Also, I find giving Norgu psychic distraction is completely ineffective - he refuses to use it unless you tell him to manually. I tried disabling all his other skills and still nothing. However, I somehow managed to beat it with only heroes and henchmen, without interrupting impossible odds and having burning (through mark of rodgort + 2 fire eles) as my only form of health degen. I was an echo nuker + sousuke echo nuker + tahlkora as prot + norgu echoing empathy + mhenlo, kihm, devona, and aidan.--Wizardboy777

About solo with hero + henchman
Make use of Spiteful Spirit to reduce Shino's damage on your tank, this mission can be done with hero + henchman(no matter your profession), here is the team setup

1) 1 Warrior Tank(u better use a hero as I dunno Devona can take this role or not) Skills : endure pain，watch yourself，wind blow，boynett's defense and some weapon attack skills.


 * Devona cant take it, she dont have the skills to survive 2 seconds with Battle Scars. Sever Artery and Gash Work nice on Shiro, and make him waste time getting rid of them.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Attribute : weapon 12 or higher, strength 9 or higher, tactics 9 or higher
 * If the proper runes are used on your heroe, the attribute points should be higher than this making the job easier.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

2) 1 MM (must brings SS)

Skills : Blood of master, animating bone fiend, animating shatter bones, Spiteful spirit(disable), Signet of lost souls, etc Attribute : dead 12 or higher, 9 soup reaping, curse 9 or higher


 * I doubt that this mission can be made with more than 1 mm. Minions do not obey commands and they attack without anything around. Shiro will fight them and possible go down in health to the point of start using Meditation before all the shrines are taken.

3) Searing flame Ele(must bring fireball)

4) 2 x Monks henchman(If you the monk, then bring healing seed and healing breeze to keep the tank alive)

5) Mesmer henchman

6) any caster/range attack npc u like

Way to kill Shino

1) the whole team go inside to pull Shino outside the gate(Shino only!! No lich!!)

2) flag your npc outsude the gate

3) only the tank is allowed to stay close to Shino

4) enable SS of the necro and disable any other non-signet skill of the necro so that he have enough en to spam SS on Shino.

5) disable searing flame of the ele coz impossible odds will make your tank get burned.

5) keep call target on shino

6) you will see your warrior's HP always > 70% when Shino is suffered from SS

7) If you want some fun then disable SS to see how impossible odds kill your tank


 * This part is not signed I seriously doubt that shiro can be pulled away from the Lich, i tried sveral times to do this and did not work, so please sign your post and tell me how you did that? I will like to know how accurate this information is.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)


 * How does SS reduce the damage on your tank? --waywrong 03:29, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I have no idea why but I have use this team setup to kill him > 15 times. And I have tried to disable the SS then the tank got killed quickly.(You can try yourself) I wonder if the behavour of Shino's AI is changed a bit when suffered from SS so that his acts strange and then he reduce his attack frequency or tends not to use some great damage skills. Hokit 05:07, 22 November 2006 (CST)


 * I just tested this, I see no visible difference to the amount of damage that Shiro is causing, whether he has SS on him or not. This may be because I had protective spirit on me while Shiro was beating on me, but there is pretty much no way for me to test this without protective spirit as Shiro will beat me to a pulp within 5 seconds with or without SS.  I tried doing it with Healing Hands, but he owns me through Healing Hands too -_-;. --waywrong 09:34, 23 November 2006 (CST)


 * Waywrong, I have a few questions about your testing. 1) Were you the tank? 2) Could you tell me your team setup?
 * According to my experience in last night, a real player tank + 2 hero/henchman monks are very enough to tank Shino(assuming without more monks, pagaron, SS Necro) but a hero tank + 2 hero/henchman monks(assuming without more monks, pagaron, SS Necro) may not able to tank, in the later case, you will see the monk running out of en easily(even with blood ritual) then the hero tank may be killed by impossible odds sometimes. Hokit 21:30, 23 November 2006 (CST)
 * I tested it as a ranger stance tank, Lightning Reflexes, Whirling Defense, Escape, Interrupts, because my warrior is not at gate of madness yet. My team set up was dunkoro (prot/heal: healing hands), master of whispers (Blood/Curses:spiteful spirit), and zhed (fire:searing flames).  My henchmen I belive were mhenlo, khim, cynn and herta.  I tried this multiple times...if you pull back into the very corner of the shrine of lyssa, shiro will de-aggro, if any of you want to do this experiment.  I died twice before there was too much DP to handle, and I see no noticable decrease in his attack speed from when he is hexed with SS, or another hexes for that matter...I brought empathy, parasitic bond, and price of failure. --waywrong 06:54, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * Forget my build then. Hokit 02:05, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Hey, who is the one that added "For those looking to beat this mission with henchmen and heroes, consider bringing 1 monk hero specalized in Healing Prayers, 2 monk henchmen, a necromancer hero with Spiteful Spirit, an elementalist hero specalized in Fire Magic, the dervish henchman, someone equipped with wild strike/blow, and an 8th person with some damage or support skills. " to the article page?? Can the writer tell us more about this build?(eg, how to use, anything we need to aware) How many time have he used this build before??? And I wonder if the 3 hero slots are used(1 monk, 1 necro & 1 ele), is the editor expecting my ritualist/mesmer char or my monk/necro/ele hero to bring wild blow/strike??? Hokit 21:46, 23 November 2006 (CST)
 * I added that, but it was because someone tacked it on there without adhereing to the template of the page, it was ugly, so I kind of summarized it into one paragraph, check the history... --waywrong 06:54, 29 November 2006 (CST)

There is no way that Spiteful Spirit reduces Shiro's damage. UNLESS on the off chance that you mean by killing Shiro faster, you'll take less damage in the long run. Even then, Spoil Victor is far more efficient in destroying Shiro than Spiteful Spirit. If you have that, take it. For a warrior that uses a sword or axe, Vigorous Spirit will work nicely with Healing Seed to make them survive just that little bit longer. You will also need strict damage from outside sources, as Spoil Victor WILL NOT finish off Shiro. 2 monks are a must, 3 is a preference. I prefer a nice combo of one good healing monk, a blood ritual/spoil victor necro and a protection monk with aegis. Darkobra

I henched it with the following setup: The only major problem was Madness Titans, which will tear right through the heroes, henchmen and minions. You also need to be careful about pulling the patrols. This setup can probably be adapted for a Paragon, I'm not sure if it'll work for other professions. -- Gordon Ecker 06:03, 29 November 2006 (CST)
 * Ritualist (16 communing, 13 spawning): Lightbringer's Gaze (rank 2), Shelter, Union, Signet of Creation, Displacement, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Resurrection Chant
 * Koss (12 tactics, 9 strength, 9 swordsmanship): Wild Blow (disabled except vs Shiro), "Watch Yourself!", Riposte, Shields Up (didn't help much), Gladiator's Defense, Soldier's Defense, Dolyak Signet, Resurrection Chant
 * Master of Whispers (16 death, 12 blood): Spoil Victor, Animate Shambling Horror, Animate Vampiric Horror, Animate Bone Fiend, Taste of Pain, Blood of the Master, Blood Ritual, Resurrection Chant
 * Zhed Shadowhoof (12 fire, 10 inspiration, 8 energy storage): Fire Attunement, Hex Eater Signet, Drain Enchantment, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Meteor Shower, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Resurrection Signet
 * Mhenlo
 * Kihm
 * Eve
 * Odurra

Hi guys, it seems that this mission is updated some days or weeks ago such that the enchanment received from the gods are changed.(before updated u have to /kneel to reveive the blessing, but now u have to capture) When I played this mission the day after the release of nightfall, the enchanments received are not helpful. But now the enchanment are very helpful(eg. + armor peneration, hp regen + 1), with these enchanemnts on your team Shiro cannot kill u easily, so killing shino is a lot easier now. I killed him easily without SS, SV, Ward, Price of Failure yesterday. I think we dun need to design a build to kill him now. The only thing u need is a MM to tank Shino when u wait for the blessing. Hokit 22:07, 3 December 2006 (CST)

I second Hokit's post. I just henched it last night. My outlay was nothing special didn't put too much thought into it. As long as you have a tank or two, a MM for diversions, an interrupter and some healing/protection it should be OK: Chilling Victory, Twin Moon Sweep, Pious Assault, Avatar of Balthazar, Heart of Holy Flame, Flame Trap, Apply Poison, Lightbringer's Gaze Wild Blow, Sever Artery, Galrath Slash, Final Thrust, "Watch Yourself!", Symbol of Wrath, Signet of Judgment, Resurrect Faintheartedness, Envenom Enchantments, Enfeebling Blood, Soul Feast, Animate Bone Fiend, Animate Bone Horror, Animate Flesh Golem, Death Nova Reversal of Fortune, Shield of Absorption, Protective Spirit, Mend Ailment, Mark of Protection, Smite Hex, Banish, Resurrect I was stupid enough to go ignore the advice given and try to kill Shiro first. Bad move and almost got wiped twice, each time when his health got low. Wised up and went straight for the Lich and completely ignored Shiro. As the article says, he doesn't do much damage to anyone until he's low on health. Captured all shrines. Killing all the Margonites reduced my DP, then ran back out to take out the leftover demons and Shiro'ken to reduce it further. Went back to kill Shiro with myself on 7% DP and main tank Koss on 20% DP. Even with that DP, all the bonuses from the shrines meant killing Shiro was a breeze. No deaths. Strongly recommend doing the bonus to make this mission easier. 203.17.238.253 20:33, 5 December 2006 (CST)
 * Player (D/R) Scythe/Mysticism/Wilderness
 * Koss (W/Mo) Sword/Tactics/Smite
 * Master of Whispers (N) Death/Curses
 * Tahlkora (Mo) Protection/Divine/Smite
 * Mhenlo
 * Cynn
 * Devona
 * Odurra
 * I know dude there are so many around that like to post crap that make no sence and give advices based on imagination, it is bad that they make you waste your time. The blessings are obviously the fastes way to go.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Has anyone else noticed a glitch, when u are trying to res the rest of ur party? As you approach the corpses, a demon spawns out of nowhere...if you dont aggro, it disappears, only to reappear as u get closer again? Anyone?

Bonus
I believe article is wrong stating that you have to hold the shrines when Shiro dies to get the bonus. Quest menu (L button) listed the bonus as completed once I capped all the shrines. When I killed Shiro (Lich was killed in the very beginning) some of them already turned red and some turned neutral. Still, I got the bonus resulting in Masters reward.
 * I also noticed the same thing Lania Elderfire 10:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, I can confirm this also, I'm going to change the note in the article back. --waywrong 09:36, 23 November 2006 (CST)

I think you need at least 3 shrines for expert. I'm pretty sure the message said I captured 2 and I only got normal reward. Surreality 20:44, 3 December 2006 (CST)

If you go with hench you can capture al shrines if you move them on the minimap to the shrines. It works, i tested it, might take a while though...

Blackout?
The article states that skill disabling skills such as Blackout do not work. Can someone confirm this? I just beat Shiro with hero/hench and took Norgu with echo+blackout. Seemed like it was working ok for me (he used the skills less often). Of course, I also had SV, so maybe I just imagined it...
 * I'm pretty sure none of Shiro's skills cost energy to use, especially not the really evil two Battle Scars and Impossible Odds. --waywrong 19:52, 30 November 2006 (CST)


 * It doesnt work at all, has been tested several times. Check Shiro page and you will see that his skills are signets. I also tried to interupt, slow and disable his signets, did not work --A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)

First post, hope i dont break anything
On the Prophecies page of Hell's Precipes its there probably on the Factions one too.

Shoudnt there be a spoiler warning on top of this page seeing as its untill you get the the gate and then at the hill that you find out that shiro and lich are also here in this game and that they are the ones that you have to defeat.

Wanderlust
I know the page say that no knockdown skills work on Shiro, but has anyone tried Wanderlust? Technically, its not the skill knocking him down, its the spirit. I would try, but I don't have a rit or a friend with a rit there. If it doesn't work, I suggest changing the statement to say that Shiro cannot be knocked down, to avoid any confusion. Break The Seal 19:11, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Wanderlust uses a skill called wanderlust whenever it "attacks", just like every other spirit that attacks, so I doubt this would work. --Notskorn 03:55, 10 December 2006 (CST)

For a Critical Defenses assassin, Critical Strike and Moebius Strike at Critical Strikes 13+ (and Shiro < 50% health, which is easy) are better than using Way of the Assassin. Shido 16:12, 16 December 2006 (CST)

It depends on the role you give your assassin : for inflicting damage, certainly. But Way of the Assassin warrants that Critical Defenses will always stay active. Without it, you're just taking chances, especially if the assassin you're using is a Hero, for whom you will be hard pressed controlling mana use ; and if it fails just when Shiro is in frenzy, the assassin is dead. In my opinion, the assassin is not there to kill Shiro (even if every bit helps), but to pin him down by giving him some (harsh) meat to grind. Shiro will just kill himself in time with any of the proper hexes.80.156.46.119 08:39, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Why Lich First?
I've done this mission on 2 characters, beaten it on the first try for both. And what I did was pull Shiro first. Shiro is MUCH easier to pull solo, and when he's dead the Lich is a sitting duck. Took about 30 minutes, because we didn't have an SV Necro. But afterward we pulled the Lich, stood behind the wall and nuked him. Took about 5 minutes. From what the article says, it seems it advises you fighting them both at once. I can't understand why. -- Macros† ( talk / contribs ) 09:58, 20 December 2006 (CST)


 * Because the Lich is extremely easy to kill, and Shiro does minimal damage when he's at full health. After the Lich is dead, you go capture all the shrines to get Master's (with Shiro chasing you, being little more than a nuisance), then you kill Shiro.  I didn't have any problems until *after* I captured the shrines, and then only because I wasn't properly prepared to handle Shiro.
 * I dunno, it's probably just as easy either way, but I personally had no problems killing the Lich first. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 10:50, 20 December 2006 (CST)
 * How in hell did you make Shiro to leave the lich???? he refuses to leave him everytime that I tried it.--A.Burgos LCK 03:11, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * Shiro stands a bit forward from the Lich when you first get to the temple. If you walk in the door, and move slowly forward until Shiro starts talking, he will come and not the Lich.  (It may be that you have to move forward a bit more, but Shiro definately aggros before the Lich does.)
 * just aggro both and have the tank keep Shiro busy, lock rest on lich...after that...even in HM...shiro doesn;t even really annoy you. Also as to why, Lich does immense damage and dies quickly, while shiro does no damage, till end, and dies slowly...keeping the liche alive is hard and he may actually may make the bonus difficult, especially in HM, while keeping shiro alive for bonus is easy, and he wont do more than annoy you while you ignore him.Killer Revan 21:13, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Is it possible to disable Shiro skills?
Using Simple Thievery or something similar? 75.35.5.62 02:10, 28 December 2006 (CST)
 * No, people have tested with Blackout and he has used skills within seconds after doing so. I also believe that was mentioned in the article...he has a 400% recharge rate or something. - [[Image:Smoke_Trap.jpg|19px]] Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 22:14, 8 January 2007 (CST)


 * My question is then, why is this written in the "Tips" section: "A simple build with a Mesmer carrying Psychic Distraction will completely shut down Shiro's damage dealing capabilities through eliminating Impossible Odds." ?? -Milcho 07:06, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * My only guess would be someone saying you can interrupt each use of impossible odds by using Psychic Distraction since the recharge is so short. However, it is a 1/2 cast and even the best mesmers can't get that most of the time.  Maybe on a hero but even then they don't spam the skill like I would like. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 14:34, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

The Lich Is very weak to water
I added that the Lich is weak to water. I used Shatterstone on him and it did 346 damage a cast (173 + 173, 3 seconds after hex). Water tears him apart. I always thought he had high armor against fire. You sure someone wasn't using winter?
 * The lich being weak to fire is well known since prophecies (Hell's Precipice). Good find though. --8765 19:27, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Not only that, my assassin with shocking daggers deals around 80dmg per hit with Death Blossom. Not crits. I can't prove it with a screenie though - Snow White Tan  11:33, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Critical hits were 93 using Death Blossom. He's definitely weak against lightning damage - Snow White Tan [[Image:SnowWhiteTan's sig.jpg|20px|omg omg omg!! (My Talk)]] 10:22, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The Lich is simply in general a Low-AL monster. For some reason, he takes large amounts of damage from all sources. However, he also has a very large amount of health. My point is, however, that any source of damage that isn't armor-ignoring is going to seem to do a lot more than normal to the Lich. --Ruricu [[Image:SoD2.jpg|Shield of Deflection is purty!]] ( Talk • Contribs) 11:34, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Masters with Heroes and henchmen
I have written a guide to beating this mission with masters with Heroes/Henchmen. Link is here User:Entice789/Gate of Madness guide if you care =)  -  Entice789  (Talk | Contributions) 00:55, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Necro bar
Take this on Olias:

Or if Necro'ing yourself, take SV and put PD on a Mesmer Hero. No Impossible Odds = easy battle. &mdash; Rapta   (talk|contribs) 17:30, 12 January 2007 (CST)
 * I hope the interupts are for margs, torment creatures, etc., and not for shiro. Good positioning is all you need to defeat shiro. --8765 20:12, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Can someone explain how this build = No impossible odds? -- Alperuzi 06:50, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * As heroes can interrupt any skill whit more than the casting time of the interrupt skill, Olias can interrupt [Impossible Odds]. So this build= no Impossible Odds. 213.84.52.71 11:15, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You do realise that Impossible Odds is a skill, and so can't be interrupted by Power Drain? And that its recharge is 5secs, a fifth that of Power Drain? RossMM 19:27, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think this is a good Necro skill bar, but I do have to point out your flaws here. Look at the other three interrupts in the bar.  They work on any skill, not just spells. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 22:01, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
 * That skill bar would be much more useful split up across a necro hero and a mesmer hero. Flesh out Olias as a minion master with Blood Ritual - you got an army of undeath *and* a battery in a single hero.  Set up Norgu with high Fast Casting and he'll be able to interrupt pretty much anything; stack Empathy/Backfire on top of Spoil Victor and you can sit back and watch everything commit suicide as they try to kill the minion army.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:29, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

Blessing of the 5 Gods
Is there a page that shows the blessings the god things give you? just curious. -Thefez
 * How about Blessings? :D Perhaps that should be linked in the article.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 00:37, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Saving the sarcasm, I just did the mission and it seemed like it was 2 blessings per Avatar (I think). The list you are providing has all the blessings which is much more than provided in the mission.  I believe that the top two blessings for each Avatar are the ones used though. --RabiesTurtle 15:21, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * All the blessings in the article are given for capturing the shrines. Most of the blessings are attribute point bonuses for particular characters, only some of them will apply to your particular character  (For instance, if playing a warrior/ranger, you would get the balthazar attributes bonus and melandry attributes bonus, while a rit/monk would get the grenth ritualist attribute bonus and dwayna monk attribute bonus.).  12.182.100.224 22:53, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

Babysitting Shiro
You may easily park/babysit Shiro with a warrior spamming and a healing monk. I placed Koss' flag at the door and set Koss to "Fight". Then I pulled Shiro and let Koss take him over. I placed Tahlkoras flag near Koss, so that she was able to heal Koss but didn't take any damage from Shiro. Once Koss, Tahlkora and Shiro are set up this way, the remaining party may go away since a single monk will outheal Shiro's damage forever (while Shiro is at full health). The remaining six people are now free to kill the Lich and capture the five shrines without any pressure.

For killing Shiro: we used two necromancer heroes using and, Shiro died within seconds (I didn't watch the clock, but the fight took less than 10 seconds after we set Olias and the Master of Whispers from "Passive" to "Fight"). --Lje 12:21, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Shiro again
Do not feel disheartened if you do not have any of the suggested skills supposedly required to kill Shiro. Shiro can be beaten by any competent team using sound tactics. The one I suggested (battling at the door) works well. Once Shiro is at less than 30% damage (not that difficult to achieve), he'll just stay where he is, which should very likely be the doorstep. The only things you now need are:
 * a really good tank (many professions can achieve that), which mostly mean any way to avoid attacks. Stances, Spells, anything goes, as long as you can ensure that you can maintain this for a long time. The Critical Assassin (which I suggested too) is only one of many ways to go. This tank purpose is to sustain Shiro's attacks. He'll be backed with the group healers. In the several successful attempts I made, Shiro is just unable to drop the tank's bar below 60%.
 * some good hexes (there are tons around, and Spiteful Spirit is only one of many) that make good use of Shiro amazing attack rate when he is in his impossible odds stance. Actually, even if you don't have this, plain patience and a good old poison or hex degen will eventually win the fight.
 * patience: yes, if you don't have any hex like Spitefull Spirit which deals damage to Shiro everytime he attacks, the fight will be long. Still, it won't be very dangerous.

And if you feel you're losing your grasp on the fight, don't be shy : run away... Better have another try than be dead.

Also note that Shiro has no means of healing himself except normal recovery and battle scars. This means that hit and run tactics can succeed where anything else fails. In particular, this means that if you break the fight at any point, you're not losing much unless you wait ages before reengaging. I experienced this the last time I tried, my assassin arriving at Shiro with -60%... got dead some more time against Shiro, and I had to break the fight several times, but that tactic nevertheless worked well. 80.156.46.119 04:43, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Just a different perspective... Bringing my third character through -- a warrior. My first was my ranger; second my necro. Both other times I took out Shiro first -- not really that hard either time. Then got the blessings and finally took out the Lich. This time, I went for the Lich. While I and two others pounded away to little avail on the Lich, Shiro proceeded to destroy the rest of the party. Shiro just ignored everyone else and killed all three monks in like 45 seconds. As I was trying to pull everyone back, Shiro finished off Olias and almost got Zed. The Lich was still about 33% health AND yes I was using a fire ele. I tried rez but quickly gave up as Shiro ignored me and simply killed whoever was rezzed. Maybe I just got lucky my other two times through. Again, just a different perspective. I just hate getting that far and now have to do it again.

I dont think you need tanks or anything advanced realy.. just get several air eles spamming lightning javelin and he shouldnt be able to get an attack off EVER (especiallly if he is under attack slowdowns) just keep spammeing them and watch his health steadily go down Tarlok 16:14, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Diversion ?
Has anyone tried Diversion on Shiro? Strictly speaking, this is not a disabling skill, it lengthens recycle times, and his skills do have recycle times. I'm guessing he's immune to it, too. But if not, it would substantially reduce his use of Battle Scars and Impossible Odds, right? Perko 02:42, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, it is a disabling skill, and no, it doesn't work. =\ Shido 15:00, 19 February 2007 (CST)

forget shiro... lich?


but the lich?!? i managed to keep him trapped behind an alter trying to kill a hero while i capped 3 shrines but he keeps running back :/

is there anyway to trap him or something so that i can cap the rest of the shrines with the henchies while having no interuption from the lich....

also: a way that i found to kill shiro is to keep him trapped at the door, by having the henchies flagged a while back and just keep giving him conditions and damage. it takes a while but kiting works. i did it with my ranger with RtW + Burning Arrow and Hunter's shot.


 * You are missing the point of killing the lich though. He dies VERY quickly, yet does huge damage. Shiro dies VERY slowly, yet does little damage (at full health anyhow). Therefore, you kill the lich is several seconds, then move to cap shrines with wimpy Shiro following you. He doesnt do much damage until he starts to lose health and get attacked, so don't worry about him. Soulcatcher 12:40, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Immunity to Impossible Odds
I earlier did the final mission in factions with my Elementalist and found I could reduce Shiro's damage enough to stand and tank him. Best of all I found I seemed to be totally immune to the almighty team killer that is Impossible Odds. Tanking like this meant Shiro took a lot of damage from the typical Spoil Victor, Empathy etc. from being able to actual hit a target with his Impossible Odds attacks. Anyone else like to test and make sure I wasn't mistaken? Keys skills are to maintain. Mantra of Earth, Stone Striker and Stoneflesh Aura. If this is true we now know that Impossible Odds always results in a critical attack. --SK  15:50, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Just to clear something up: Where Stoneflesh Aura says you are "immune to critical attacks," that simply means that any attack against you that would normally result in a crit will not deal the extra crit damage, but it will still hit you as a normal attack. The normal damage (which is never more than ~30) is further reduced by Stoneflesh Aura and Mantra of Earth, which is why you don't appear to be taking any damage - it's not that you're completely immune to all of Shiro's attacks due to Stoneflesh Aura's immunity to crits.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 18:23, 21 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Which is what I was saying. Impossible Odds was showing 0 figures.  I tested this by going into Imperial Sanctum on my own (Mhenlo is always in this mission). I was taking low damage from Shiro as long as I maintained the three skills. Sadly on my own I cannot create the sort of damage to get Shiro to start using his Impossible Odds skill. The most important thing about this find though is that it enables someone to tank Shiro. Spoil Victor, Empathy, Spiteful Spirit and skills alike arnt very effective if Shiro has nothing to hit. --SK [[Image:Assassin-icon-small.png]]  02:55, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Right, I wasn't questioning the effectiveness of your strategy, I was just questioning your conclusion that "Impossible Odds always results in a critical attack". &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 11:30, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Word usage (GW:1RV issue)
I modified Mikkel's tip that Shiro can be easily neutered... to Shiro can be easily neutralized... with the reason "improper word choice". To "neuter" something is to castrate it, and it is impossible to perform that act within Guild Wars. Thus, Mikkel's usage of the word "neuter" is obviously incorrect, and it should be replaced with a more proper word. &mdash;Dr Ishmael (talk|contribs) 12:11, 11 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I have explained the meaning of the word neuter on Mikkel's talk page. I will correct the article now.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 13:10, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

See my talk page for the conclusion to this. To sum it up: No, this is not an RV1 issue as Dr Ishmael didn't revert anything, and yes, "neutered" is correct. mikkel 14:56, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * While technically used correctly, I think we can all agree that "neuter" has a certain connotation and mental image that is unnecessary and distracting in a walkthrough article. Hashmir 22:04, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

LB Gaze
While we were capping the shrines, Shiro was attacking us too. I used LB gaze on the executioner's, and AoE from my LB rank hit Shiro too. It might have been that I saw the numbers above his head, and it was really from an executioner, but I think it just can't be used directly.


 * Lightbringer's Gaze can only target a "demonic servant of Abaddon", but the splash damage from it is unrestricted. Step outside the Chantry of Secrets and use it there, where you have one Margonite in a group of Kournans - you'll see plenty of splash damage.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] (talk|contribs) 20:57, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * In case you are interested, Lightbringers gaze doesnt not seem to work with arcane echo. I am a mesmer, I know how to use mes skills, and it works with echo, but not arcane.....anyone else notice this? Domina Te68.54.131.134 16:16, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's because LB Gaze is a Skill, not a Spell - Arcane Echo only copies Spells, but Echo will copy anything. You can copy Echo with Arcane Echo, though, and have 3 copies of LB Gaze on your bar (of course, with the 15 second recharge on LB Gaze, it's not all that useful).  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 11:39, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Wow, I can't believe Koss did it
Just did this mission with: me as heal monk, Dunkoro as healer, Tahlkora as prot monk, Cynn, Eve, Paragon henchman, a below-average human nuker, and Koss.

We rushed the Lich and killed him, then went back to doorway. Koss used 3 skills the entire battle: wild blow, riposte, and deadly riposte. He managed to hold arggo 95% of the time, and died once, but was quickly ressed. The last 10% was very hard, but koss just kept spamming rip-deadly rip, and we managed to defeat him. The only blocking spell I had all game was aegis. I had no hexes and no blindness.

We did not get any of the shrines.

Pretty cool, huh? (User:Ryudo) April 16,2007


 * Umm.... Want a cookie? Soulcatcher 12:27, 22 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Soul, if you aren't going to contribute anything useful... you might just want to resist clicking that "edit" button for the sake of the rest of us.
 * Thanks for your contribution Ryudo. I haven't ever put Riposte and Deadly Riposte on my Koss before, but I will try that out when I get my last two characters through there. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 13:20, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

Shrine capping bug
Just did the mission and i was dead when Melandru's shrine was captured and didn't get the bonuses from capping the shrine (didn't have it for the rest of the mission even after i was resurrected). I was alive for the rest and got the bonuses just fine. I'll wait to see if anyone can tell me something I don't know before i mark it as a bug. --Colonel Popcorn 23:06, 26 April 2007 (CDT)


 * No one has said anything to the contrary and I tested again, purposely dying as a shrine finished capping, and did not get the bonus so I have marked it as a bug in the main article. In this screenshot my henches had already resurrected me by the time I took the screenshot, but you can see the Balthazar shrine just finished capping yet I do not have the Balthazar blessings (I do have the Melandru ones because I did not die when it was capped)


 * In the ss it says, "You have rallied 2 of 5 god avatars," so you did still get credit for it, even though you didn't receive the blessings. You should probably clarify that in the bug note.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:50, 5 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Good thinking. That is what I meant, but now that you bring it up I can see how a misunderstanding could occur. Fixed. --Colonel Popcorn 01:16, 6 May 2007 (CDT)

Psychic Distraction
How, exactly, will Psychic Distraction nullify out Impossible Odds if Shiro's skills can't be disabled, and with the estimated 1 second recharge vs Distraction's 2...? --Gimmethegepgun 21:07, 10 May 2007 (CDT)

Tough to find players
As you already probabilly know it may be fairly difficult finding a group with the skill to do the mission itself. There are plenty of dervs around, the group I beat it with consisted if four dervs, one nuker, a tank, and a couple of monk heros. I have herd many times that a group with six good dervs and two monk heros also will have a pretty good chance of getting masters along with the mission.

Hard Mode made just a little easier
Recently I have done Hard Mode for Gate of Madness, I never found the mission that diffcult, it was only when I had to face Shiro and the Lich when things got complicated. The Lich is much more tough in Hard Mode, and simply charging in and killing him asap isn't a real plan you can use here like in Normal Mode. Aside from the Lich being more aggressive, having Shiro there even at full health (and generally being less of a threat than when he's near death) still is enough trouble to get everyone killed. Stated before in discussion there was talk of being able to lure the Lich away from Shrio, I was able to do it in Hard Mode, killing the Lich in under 5 minutes, taking minimal damage.

To lure the Lich a ranger does well, but any class will do if you're careful enough. A ranger does well since they have many blocking stances that can block projectiles. Anyway, leave everyone outside and let the ranger approach the corridor, once the Lich and Shiro start talking wait where you are, while talking you'll notice they appear as green dots on your compass, wait until they turn red. Hug the right wall as tight as you can and move VERY slowly forward, always keeping an eye on the Lich on either your compass or holding Ctrl to watch his name if it moves, once he starts moving wait where you are for him. He can be tricky to get to follow you since he doesn't like giving chase for very long, but keep him on the edge of your aggro bubble and he should stay with you. Lure him till you're at the door and then take cover behind it, the Lich will then try and hit you with a ranged attack which will be obstructed by the doorway. Now bring your nuker, SS and or SV to your position, make sure if your nuker is a hero to disable any AoE spells that would make the Lich runaway. The beauty of this is he will not be able to damage you for much, if you lured him right, his Life Vortex skill will be out of reach so he wont heal himself or hurt you at all. The only thing he can do is use Hunger of the Lich which is easily healed by a single monk from the backline. After the Lich is dead you're left with Shiro, capping the shrines is still risky with Shiro around but is do-able now. After that it's standard tactics to deal with Shiro.

I know it says you can lure the Lich in the main article but luring both the Lich and Shiro at he same time is much more difficult to do, Shiro also has a tendancy to not run all the way back to the center once you break aggro, so I believe this method should get some recognition as you never have to disturb him.

Doing it this way makes it very possible with a hero and henchmen team even on Hard Mode, which I did, and even after completing it I noticed I forgot to have my Lightbringer title equipped. (Sorry I can't post screen shots of the Lich actually being lured away but if someone could test it, I'm sure you'll find this works 100%)

If you have a ritulist, Shiro hates Shadow Song spirit and can often be locked up fighting this spirit.
 * an alliance ele and i did it and here are the notes... 1: you do not need to remove a stance to kill shiro...my fault for forgetting it though.  we had to hex and use "You're All Alone", and i necrosis spammed, but it worked too... 2:  klling the liche is easy even if you have to tank shiro while doing it...seperating them is not necessary to beat the liche, just lock heros on liche... 3:  after a disaster in one bonus room (one where you can lose shiro aggro..rightmost) we killed all bonus enemies and capped all shrines without having to pay the least bit of attention to shiro. 4: if you choose to use necrosis and slowdown...dont let him actually attack...if you that is 360 life steal + dmg...even a tank cant take that damage...we kinda let him come to me and run away without actually hitting me most of the time until we died.  anyway...hope that helpsKiller Revan 21:03, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Solo?
Is it actually possible to solo this? I've seen people ad for it for insane amounts of money. Most people shoot them down as scammers and I don't see how it is possible to solo. Someone know if it is soloable and how or if it is plain impossible to solo? Morgan Fairweather 02:07, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The advertisers for running the mission are not going solo...they are doing the mission with Heros and Henchmen. They charge like 20k for 1 or 2 customers since the rest of the party slots are filled.   The typical build I have seen is 2 Necros, 2 Elementalists, and 2 Monks.  Anything beyond that is the professions of their customers.  One Necro is usually a MM, but you can be sure Spoil Victor and/or Spiteful Spirit are equipped among the two necros.  The Elementalists are bascially high Fire damage or Water damage.  The Monks are Henchmen monks. ImperialMike 22:12, 4 June 2007 (CDT)


 * These people I've seen advertising for it are running it without hench and heroes. Just to explain more. Morgan Fairweather 00:47, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

ranger
How do you do this as a ranger? Morgan Fairweather 21:00, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Do lots of damage?
 * Don't use conditions on shiro when he's low on health. You can defeat shiro (and the rest of the mission) basically doing nothing. Let your heros and hench do all the work. --8765 21:15, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Needling Shot is nice once he's below 50%. RossMM 19:30, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Assuming you have BiP... and a zealous... --Gimmethegepgun 19:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Yup, energy is a pain. If you can get to 13 expertise then you can spam this for quite a reasonable length of time, or you can take some sort of energy management like Marksman's Wager (which unfortunately takes up an elite). But that said it's better than nothing when facing Shiro, and once you're out of energy you can just fall back on auto-attacks. RossMM 19:52, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Prepared Shot would also be a good choice for energy management so long as you're packing a preparation. RossMM 19:59, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

All great pointers, thanks a bunch. :) I will try it out and post what works for me. Shiro was a bit of a pain with my usual build that I don't have problems with ever. Morgan Fairweather 00:12, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

In other words, bring something that deals damage to shiro. Wow! Wasn't that so hard? Aren't you proud of your achievement of defeating shiro? -.- --8765 20:41, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * GW:NPA. Be nice. &mdash;Tanaric 23:42, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You may want to read the Needling Shot page before being so rude, as it works differently to most attacks and so is very useful against a high-armour target like Shiro. RossMM 08:06, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I find it funny that one takes a sarcastic comment and immediately turns it into a personal attack directed at oneself. Even better when it's misinterpreted. This whole article makes it seem that defeating shiro is some big accomplishment. --8765 13:47, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The sarcasm was directed at the user, you basically were calling him a dumbass. Your comments to shame users for asking questions and to degrade one's feeling of accomplishment are not useful nor needed. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 15:23, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you had stopped before the last sentence, Aren't you proud of your achievement of defeating shiro?, I would've called it sarcasm, but that last bit is pretty obviously personal.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:54, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You've no reason to be so rude. What did I ever do to you? If you don't want to answer a question or have nothing constructive to say, keep your negativity and disrespect to yourself because it is not welcome. I do not appreciate your rude behavior and neither does anyone else. And just so you know, it is not so easy to defeat Shiro. I just wanted some input to make the mission that much more successful. And for the record, I do not need to explain myself to a snide person like yourself. Morgan Fairweather 22:07, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Tips for Defeating Shiro Section
I think this section should be organized by profession since people are going to be doing this mission with H/H. It would make more sense to have the player choose whichever heros they want, then come to this guide and find the tips for each respective hero class. Maybe something like this: ==Tips for Defeating Shiro== ===War=== *tip1 *tip2 ===Ele=== *tip1 etc --8765 13:23, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Defeat the Lich at the end easily with … a bug?
After defeating Shiro with the tips out of the door, I cross the lich and go directly on the Abaddon Shrine. And what’s up? The Lich move further than normally on the other side of the shrine ! So I go back and the Lich was ‘captured’ or fall in admiration with the shrine of Abaddon: so I do the bonus with the 5 other shrine without Lich behind me!! But at the end, when I wanted to hit the Lich, he didn’t move anymore and was let killed!! So good... I don’t know if it’s working with Shiro also. --Sylf Angel 01:00, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

Endgame setup changed?
I can remember my Nightfall runnings, ending in killing the lich and keeping Shiro off aggro. Strangely enough, I've noticed when trying to do this mission again this night, that Shiro stands just behind the dooway, and starts aggroing ("Taste the double-blade of the torment!" - the German version of it ;)) as soon as I moved in the double-aggro distance. I've tested this several times - each time I got in about spirit-range distance, he ran towards me an activated battle scars. Any ideas, why? Jorx 19:53, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Shiro can be knocked down?
Someone put it on the Shiro page and I'm wondering if it's true. The Hobo 21:54, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, it is. I've seen it. Don't know what skills though. I'm pretty sure I knocked him down with Savage Shot. Can't be too sure as it's been awhile but I do know he can be knocked down. Morgan Fairweather 00:04, 24 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Um, Savage Shot isn't a knockdown - it's an interrupt. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:09, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The interrupt animation makes the character "stagger". Maybe that was it? The Hobo 01:09, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Could have been. Can't remember. Oh, well. But he can be knocked down, that's what is important. Morgan Fairweather 15:48, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you could KD him, he'd be one of the easiest bosses in the game. P A R A S I T I C 14:59, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

My henching guide.
I've henched this 10 times all Masters and henched it for people... well I didn't count that >_>. Enjoy and tell me if it works or not for you. Does for me all the time. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by NanoWarrior (contribs).
 * You shouldn't be linking to a sandbox page - it looks like the content in that page has already been cleared out. Make a page in your userspace instead, User:NanoWarrior/Gate of Madness hench team build or something.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 09:18, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Heh wrong link. Lol I hand typed it so it was wrong. It's fixed now but that's my own personal way of henching Gate of Madness on my sandbox.

Killed Shiro with a friend and our Heroes
After two tries without success, we finally did it on the third and killed Shiro in twenty seconds with this party:

1) Paragon aka. my friend (support build)

2) Earth Elementalist (me, using modified earth tank build)

3) Dunkoro 1(Healer's Boon)

4) Dunkoro 2(Healer's Boon)

5) Acolyte Sousuke (Searing Flames build)

6) Olias (SS build, with Faintheartedness to slow down Shiro's attacks)

7) Melonni 1 (Avatar of Lyssa for massive damage)

8) Melonni 2 (Convicted Wounder build to cause bleeding)

As somebody has mentioned, conditions and hexes are the key! There's no need to get two necros or even Spoil Victor though. However, one last point to note: after capping the shrines don't hang around inside the temple. Instead run outside the gate and let Shiro run back. Take this time to recover and have a breather and then position your heroes so they would not be hit too badly by his Impossible Odds. Good luck! --Raiser Sunspurn 09:14, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * If you don't mind, let me make some suggestions to improve that build for future use. First off, Searing Flames doesn't work so hot with Shiro once he is low health.  Impossible odds transfers conditions to his targets, so you are putting burning on your own guys as well as making it harder to trigger the actual damage from the spell.  Same goes for the bleeding with one of those Melonnis, and the other using Avatar of Lyssa wasn't dealing the damage you thought it was because it triggers on attacks while target is activating skills... Shiro's are basically instant activation. You don't need an Earth tank.  The way to keep from getting damage from Shiro is by blocking his attacks to start with.  Blindness doesn't work since it is a condition, and you have to be careful about hexes because Impossible Odds also removes one hex each time it is implemented.  What you are left with are stances and enchantments which cause blocking.  Aegis works decently for multiple targets, Soldier's Defense works well in combination with "Watch Yourself!", and I have even done it with my Assassin using Critical Defenses.  With the combination of Aegis and one of the 75% block rate skills, you don't take really any damage at all.  Now how do you cause the damage yourself?  Spoil Victor is the obvious choice, but Spiteful Spirit, Empathy, and even Price of Failure can work.  Oh, and Faintheartedness is not a good idea when trying to deal damage based on attacks by the target.  You could try to slip in a Reckless Haste instead, but mainly just block the attacks.  The trick to hexes is to ensure you are covering your damage hex.  The way I do this is by disabling all the skills on that particular hero.  Instead, force him to cast SV (or other dmg skill) right as Shiro activates Impossible Odds and quickly cover it with Parasitic Bond or another quick cast/recharge spell.  Whenever you see Impossible Odds again, recast the cover.  Using this blocking and damage technique, Shiro becomes easy.
 * Overall I use Dunkoro with a protection build (Aegis, PS, SoA, RoF, GoLE, etc), Olias (SV), Koss (Watch Yourself, Soldier's Defense, Wild Blow), Mhenlo, Eve, Devona, and Gehraz. The two hench tanks might bite the dust towards the end of Shiro, but disable your rez skills so they can focus on Shiro and not the fallen.  If you are smart in your technique and can manage Olias decently, this type of build works great for any of your characters for the entire mission. — RabiesTurtle (contribs) 12:32, 12 July 2007 (CDT)