User talk:Warrior Nation/N/Me SS Nuker

/Archive 1

Rate-a-Build
Favored
 * 1) Solid build, widely used. --NieA7 10:43, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 2) Good job with the rewrite, Sarah! &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 22:19, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 3) very solid, Ive tested it and it works quite well --24.50.144.212 17:48, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * 4) Standard SS build, works well(UnexistNL 08:15, 9 October 2006 (CDT))
 * 5) Been using it forever. Good solid build. And just because of new AI updates, it doesn't make this build "useless" as many have been quoted in saying. It's not as devastating as it used to be, but it is still very VERY effective. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg|25px]] 18:53, 16 November 2006 (CST)
 * 6) Great build, but it could have about 6 more pages of variants.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 23:10, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * 7) I love this build. After the MM nerf, I went SS for quite some time. And despite what everyone says with the NF skill balancing and AI update, monsters still stand nice and clustered up to die from SS overload. Cutsman 03:07, 7 December 2006 (CST)
 * 8) Just great.--[[Image:Star-small.png]] ~Edo Dodo~ [[Image:Star-small.png]] 04:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * 9) What can I say. It is SOOO fun watching hundreds of numbers pop up and then those stupid monsters die. I never used SS until AFTER the update, and I am still very impressed by the results. Nova 22:21, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 * 10) Still useful, run this ALOT on my necro. --SBR 00:52, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * 11) Still does boat loads of damage, and makes a nice way to mitigate over aggroing by making a part of the mobs flee and fragmenting them... making it easier to deal with too many margonites for example.. --Lania Elderfire 02:14, 31 January 2007 (CST)
 * 12) &mdash; Defiant Elements 18:10, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * 13) Love it, always will. Solus  [[image:Shield_of_Judgment.jpg|19px]] 00:42, 2 March 2007 (CST)

Unfavored
 * 1) With the 26 October 2006 update, SS now triggers AoE flee, and monster AI now tries to avoid tight grouping, rendering SS almost entirely useless---DarkPhoeniX- 05:51, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
 * 2) All the builds including SS as main attack weapon, or just an attack, should be removed...SS is completely useless...First, you can only get it on 1 target..2nd..that target flees..Basically it doesn't even deal damage to ONE target..Soon people will need to find another way to 2-man UW --The Prophet of Life 17:39, 16 November 2006 (CST)
 * You should check SS better, they don't flee from SS, they always flee when more then 3 are attacking at 1. Someone plz remove the nightfall skill balancing thing cuz it stills works damn fine.(UnexistNL 12:59, 17 November 2006 (CST))
 * It appears that niether of these people have ever tried ss, before or after the update. [sarcasm]If you are voting this unfavored because you 'think' it makes mobs flee then i suggest you go vote unfavored on every nuker build on the wiki since they are all obviously useless.[/sarcasm]--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 23:08, 3 December 2006 (CST)
 * 1) I have tried ss (before and after update), and can safely say that though you can farm with this build, it is MUCH slower after the update and sucks comapred to almost every other uw farming build.--TheDrifter 17:48, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * This build has nothing to do with UW, its for general PvE.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 18:08, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * 1) You call this an SS nuker? You actually used AtB over Defile or Desecrate Enchantments? A sad case of not knowing simple math. AtB is wasteful in this build. Besides the damage it adds being inferior to Defile Enchantments alone, it'll make you sac more when using BR. There's no "nuker" in an SS build untill both Defile and Desecrate Enchantments are on there. P A R A S I T I C 00:16, 2 March 2007 (CST)
 * What is the point of hitting 63s when most foes don't even use enchantmetns where SS is used, (Blades, Grasping Darkess). I admit, Descrete and Defile enchantments absolutely own when their used in areas which have alot of enchantments. Solus  [[image:Shield_of_Judgment.jpg|19px]] 00:42, 2 March 2007 (CST)
 * God, I'm tired of explaining this -_- With or without enchantments, Defile will still out damage AtB. Please do the simple math P A R A S I T I C 19:53, 2 March 2007 (CST)

rewrite
with the two man setup covered by other articles, i'm thinking of rewriting this as a modern echo/SS/RH curses build sometime today. objections? --Honorable Sarah 13:33, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
 * all set. did i miss anything? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:51, 9 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Looks good to me in the main, I'm just not quite convinced by Blood Ritual and Parasitic Bond. SS is an offensive build while BR is more of a supportive enchantment, it's difficult to switch between the two roles in the middle of a fight so BR might end up being wasted. Parasitic Bond is great in its own way but I think the slot here could be used in a better way - cover hex's aren't really needed in PvE very often. Enfeebling Blood works great with this kind of build, while Price of Failure synergises very nicely with Reckless Haste. I'd suggest EB as a replacement for PB, and PoF as a variant. --NieA7 09:32, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Oh, and if you take Enfeebling Blood then Oppressive Gaze works out for more damage than Defile Enchantments, and acts as a pretty useful self heal too. Costs a bit more energy, but it can be recast twice as fast. --NieA7 09:40, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
 * cover hexes are worth less in low level PvE, but you try taking a Smite Crawler out without them. point taken thou, making adjustments. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 10:09, 10 August 2006 (CDT)


 * You know I've never been in the Underworld. Keep meaning to do it but I got put off by all the UW scams on the scam page, plus the fact that it's meant to take hours to work through. Ditto the elite missions. Have to give them all a try one day though. --NieA7 10:43, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

why do the ss/sv link go here? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.191.13.49 (talk &bull; contribs) 16:37, 20 August 2006 (CDT).
 * what link do you mean? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:40, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
 * What he means is that when you type SS/SV into the search, it still redirects to here, but this build no longer has SS and SV...Windtalker 02:50, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

I agree on the blood ritual: its not very neccisary, I don't think. My SS Nuker actually runs this exact build, but replaces BR with Mark of Pain. I find it to be quite helpfull, as long as you call your target and realize that SS is more efficient. --24.50.144.212 17:55, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
 * noted in variants --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 19:01, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

Suggestion for change
I've never liked how much energy it takes to echo SS. You spend 45 energy to get it on two enemies at once... Then I tried using Auspicious Incantation on Arcane Echo. Arcane Echo will recharge normally after the time is up, but you'll gain a lot of energy back. Auspicious Incantation -> Arcane Echo -> SS -> Echoed SS -> Reckless Haste IMO, replace Enfeebling Blood with Auspicious Incantation. --Shadowleaf 07:08, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You won't have mutch energy trouble, because of high soul reaping.(UnexistNL 14:07, 8 October 2006 (CDT))


 * If you enter the battle with 52 energy, then by the time you cast that combo, you'll have 15 energy to cast another SS or Reckless Haste. Soon after, things die and you get buckets of energy. --Karlos 08:21, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Auspicious incantation is good but that is the wrong way to use it. AtB>AE>SS>AI>(echoed)SS>SS... thats the most effective way to gain the energy from auspicious incantation without a downside. If you use it as early as you suggested you will usually be gaining about 10 less energy than you could be since you hit the energy cap.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 23:04, 3 December 2006 (CST)

is Awaken worth it?
Does anyone besides me feel that putting more points into blood to use AtB just isn't worth it? It's only adding an extra 4 dmg on SS, but Defile/Desecrate enchantments do 64dmg on their own, and have a good possibility of hitting an enchantd foe. I think having both defile/desecrate enchantments would put more "nuker" into this build. AtB with Blood with blood ritual also isn't such a good idea, since this build seems to have no self-healing. Other than that, it's a good one. I use the echo/ss combo alot with my nec. I really think people underestimate it sometimes, since it has potential to do more damage than a real nuker. P A R A S I T I C 14:48, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
 * You really don't need self healing if you aren't getting hit. AtB is for fastest 2 man farming of the UW &mdash; Skuld 14:50, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

Do I have to have mesmer?
I use N/Mo for my necro for my MM build, but I wanna make it also an SS, do I need arcane Echo to make a succesful SS build?
 * Since you can't pull off two Spiteful Spirits quickly, you'd be doing less damage. It's still decent without AE, just not optimal as when paired with it. You should try it for yourself to see if it is strong enough. --Ufelder 10:33, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
 * If you haven't gained the ability to change secondary follow the main quests of either campagn. If you have it only takes moments to map to the relivent outpost the change Prof. (Even quicker if you get nightfall). If you really want to SS as a N/Mo try getting hold of x2 20%HCT/HSR curse items (check collectors and crafters for necro in the quick reference section the left menu area of the wiki. --JP 10:46, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Thank you for your help. anything I should bring other than Arcane Echo?
 * Try using Auspicious Incantation on the echoed version of SS for some massive energy managment.--Coloneh RIP[[Image:Coloneh.png]] 23:01, 3 December 2006 (CST)

Un-Favoured
I removed the un-favoured tag that Da Trang put on the article because no vote has been done to decide that yet. If you want to un-favor a build, archive the old rate-a-build vote and put up a new one. — Jyro X 04:01, 16 November 2006 (CST)

Re-vote
Alright, since the new AI update months ago, this build is now totally bad. It should be trashed right now, but since that is not fair, a re-vote is definitly in order. All in favor?--TheDrifter 19:44, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Take a look up the page at the rate-a-build section. The October AI revision is discussed there. Enter your opinion with the other negatives, preferably with a bit more in the way of supporting detail. --Jawn Sno 17:45, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * I dunno what the heck everyone is smoking but WTH?!?! All the AI update did was made SS slower in killing/dealing damage than it did before.  This new feature is nice in PvE because it seems to endlessly confuse enemies and spend more time running around aimlessly taking damage from nukers and not consistently attack.  Also if you have 3 or less aggroed then you don't trigger this behavior if you are farming. --Lania Elderfire 03:02, 6 January 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, the update didn't really damage SS that bad, and this build is still very prominent in many PUG groups for FoW/UW. I don't think we should revote on it, as it is still effective. Turk Nagona 17:58, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * I would give the go-ahead with the revote, not because SS got nerfed, but because the build itself should be different than the one that was just used for SF farming. For example, in general PvE, you won't carry Spinal Shivers. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 20:58, 27 January 2007 (CST)

I always use Power Return for interrupts. More reliable and spammable. The 15sec recharge on Shivers makes it only worth usin on a boss. P A R A S I T I C 00:47, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * I would have to agree with para. Although power return gives energy to your foe, essentially enemies in PvE have unlimited energy. Although you can get their energy down to zero, they can still cast spells. Unless you need the enemy's energy to be zero, I would agree and sub power return for spinal shivers- Schwarz [[Image:Aura_of_Displacement.jpg|19px]]