User:Entropy/bureaucrat

This page is for recommending users who would be good candidates for filling a Bureaucrat position. Please do the following:


 * 1) Create a new header with the user's name, talkpage, and contribs (like an RfA).
 * 2) Explain why you think the user would make a good Bureaucrat. More is better: I am looking for a detailed explanation, not just "he's a nice guy". Try to give some concrete examples.
 * 3) Notify the user on their talkpage that you recommended them. This isn't a formal process with acceptance, rejection, and voting, but it is just common courtesy to know people are talking about you.
 * 4) Solicit your friends, friends of the recommended person, and the community at large to comment on the recommendation: do they agree? disagree? have other comments or concerns? Place your thoughts under an appropriate subheading. As with the original poster, please try to be as descriptive and thorough as possible with your comments; this is NOT a vote of any sort, so simply signing does me very little good.
 * 5) Discussion should preferably take place on this page. "Comments on the comments", or stuff that is inconsequential to the Bureaucrat-capabilities of the recommended person, should be relegated to the talkpage. Please don't spam unnecessarily on this page.

Example (Talk/Contributions)
I think that Example is a great choice for bureaucrat because he has a perfectly clean contributions record (see contribs) and every one of his edits has been productive and beneficial to the wiki. Example is fairly well-known to the userbase and although he isn't a sysop I think most users would trust him with discretionary powers.

Etc etc. (T/C) 01:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Approval

 * 1) I also agree that Example is a good choice
 * 2) Seconded
 * 3) Thirded

Disapproval

 * 1) I wouldn't trust Example as far as I could throw him, he hasn't been active for years.

Other comments

 * 1) I can not judge whether Example is a good choice or not but I would like to point out that his creator, User:Draygo Korvan, is no longer active on GuildWiki.

PanSola (Talk/Contributions)
Do I need to say anything? &mdash; Warw/Wick
 * To be honest, in this case, no. I am very, very well aware of PanSola and I believe almost everyone is, to be honest. Especially since April Fool's. ;) I would still prefer some more explanation if you'd care to give it though. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright. Pans been one of the best contrib'ers from the start, and has a total of more edits than Skuld (:O).. coding god.. Basically everything :P &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 06:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough.
 * Although Pan has unquestionable contributions and is probably one of the best (if not the best) tech savvy person on the wiki; I would like to know what you think of him as a "people person". Do you believe PanSola has what it takes to promote/demote sysops, decide whether to give bot status, be impartial and objective when judging sysop actions, and overall "speak on behalf of the GuildWiki community"? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 07:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Approval

 * 1) Yes. 150%. Ditto. Agreed. What /\ said. Concordantly. Abra Kadabra. Affirmative. This was the first person I was thinking of when I saw this page, I was just so damn lazy to actually make it. Here's my vote of approval, 100% of good rellik goodness with 20% extra blue.
 * 2) PanSola is objective, fair, reasonable and helpful. And is extremely able to benefit the wiki with his knowledge of coding. As well as any other positive brought up above or elsewhere. When LordBiro was going to promote another user to bureaucrat, the first person that came into my mind was PanSola. I also do not see any issues with his ties to Wikia. He has shown he is capable of making logical and reasonable administrative decisions (1) and is always courteous and helpful when dealing with the other users (2). Combine this with his experience, and I fully trust that PanSola will be able to make the right decisions on any bureaucrat action.   --Shadowcrest  19:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that I have to make a comment here...I initially refused the Bureaucrat position when Biro offered it to me, and recommended he consider PanSola instead. But Biro was...uneasy with that. I can not repeat the conversation as it's personal confidance, but I feel the need to dispel the notion that Pan was "already slated for the promotion" in Biro's eyes. Among users, yes, that was the feeling...with the management? Not so much. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just wondering, was that a public conversation on the wiki? -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 19:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) I've got to say yes on this as well. I could have sworn he was already a b.crat, at one point or another... I know I've treated him as such for a while. It just seems like a natural step-up for him, and I believe any change he might bring about as a b.crat would only be good, one way or another. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>  .cнаt^  19:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) When I first started up on this wiki, Pan was the first admin that I became aware of.  I more or less look up to him for advice, help, and just as a general figure of authority.  I think he is more than qualified for the position.  I don't think I have ever seen him involved in a dispute where his own personal bias got in the way.  I think that his promotion would only make this wiki a greater place to be. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]]   (T / C)  02:23, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol, prog thought Pan was already an admin. :) &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 10:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bcrat*. And yes, until about a week ago I thought Pan had been a bureacrat at least since I came here :) --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] - talk 15:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Disapproval

 * 1) Your comment here

Other comments

 * 1) Ties with Wikia make this a questionable promotion. - Auron 08:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you fear corruption, collusion, bias, etc. to taint PanSola's judgment? Or are there other implications behind your statement? I can understand somewhat how this could be a potential issue, but from what I have seen thus far I don't have much grounds for fearing PanSola would "go rogue" and act as Wikia's puppet or such. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I fear that he would be unable or unwilling to "speak on behalf of the GuildWiki community," particularly on issues such as a Guildwiki2. Lord Belar 19:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He is a contributor on GWW as well, and he's on GW2W too (albeit with no major contributions). I believe he won't let bias get in his way in that regard; it's not like Wikia pays him or anything. If the worry is that he might start promoting Wikia staff here, can't they already do that for themselves? Aside from that, I don't see how he could do any [more] harm [then Wikia already has]. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]] Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> .cнаt^  19:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) PanSola here. Four separate comments I got:
 * 2) To date, I have not commented on a single RFA at GuildWiki, because I had felt I'm not really on top of what's going on in the community (95% of the ppl I am familiar with are over at GWW), and I had not felt the incentive to do the research to make comments on RfA's.  There are multiple ways to interpret/spin this behavioral fact and my (subjective) explanation, but in any case I think this should be taken into consideration.
 * Good point, but if you were a Bcrat, I'm pretty sure you would do the necessary research then.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Pan, while I think it is important for bureaucrats themselves to be able to resolve RFA's knowledgeably, consider that most of the other sysops throughout history (and even Tanaric/Biro himself) rarely if ever commented on RFA's unless it was a personal friend or enemy. I don't take it as a particularly black mark or anything. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) BTW, is it the Bureaucrat's job to represent the GuildWiki community?  I don't believe we had ever expected it of Nunix or LordBiro, whereas Gravewit may had represented GuildWiki on legal/paperwork stuff because he was the one getting us servers/bandwidth, but Gravewit didn't really represent the community either. To me, an admin's job only involves Prot, Del, and Ban; a Bcrat's job only involves promotion of other people.  Sysops and Bcrats had, historically, not been empowered as arbitrators/moderators/representatives in the community.  Certain individuals tend to end up being arbitrators/moderators just because of who they are, and their Sysop/Bcrat positions are more a result of them being who they are, as opposed to being a rank that allowed them to arbitrate/moderate.  My expectations of Sysops is the ability to properly use discretion when utilizing the tools of Prot/Del/Ban.  My personal expectation of a Bcrat is simply a good judge of character as to whether someone else should be promoted to a certain position.
 * That's true, but since we are now a part of Wikia, we need a spokesman to deal with those in higher positions, and that spokesman should probably be the B-crats because they are already carefully elected. However, taking that in consideration makes Auron's point more important.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Astute observation, and I wish things were still that simple; I could thusly promote quite a number more sysops and even bureaucrats without thinking twice. By the strict letter of GW:ADMIN and related policies, you are exactly right: that is the precise role of sysops and bureaucrats. However, I have increasingly felt as GuildWiki has...aged that admins and the bureaucrat(s) need to take on more responsibilities and be more active. These are rather vague roles, and vary wildly: I would never ask for Dr Ishmael's technical knowledge or your Wikia knowledge as prerequisites to the job, obviously. But I think that each sysop brings something unique with them to the team. All have their own areas of expertise which they use to help benefit the Wiki, with the most basic duties/abilities still being the most important: discretion to use the powers granted. Ultimately, sysops/bcrat does end up being the final "arbitrators/moderators/representatives in the community". Not all of us, of course, but the chain of command ends there. If a regular user displays such qualities, chances are they are due for a promotion. :)
 * What I want in a second bureaucrat is, above all, a person who can fill in for me while I'm gone. Such times are only bound to increase when I head off to college later this year. I feel that a person with the power to discipline the sysops (desysoption), make promotions, authorize bots, etc. should always be available in case emergencies come up. I have come close to missing a lot of rather important issues because I am not so active anymore; in most of them, bureaucrat being around, "a good judge of character as to whether someone else should be promoted to a certain position", would have helped. It is retroactive and conversely applied also: to look at a sysop's actions and reconsider if promoting them was such a good idea. Also, bureaucrat is the nominal representative to Wikia nowadays, mostly because we don't formally have an "owner" such as Gravewit anymore. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Self-proclaimed Fact: I spend way more time on GuildWiki than I do playing GuildWars.  Self-proclaimed Fact: I sometimes take long breaks from GuildWars, months at a time.  Self-proclaimed Fact: I also sometimes takes long breaks from GuildWiki, months at a time (most recent being approximately April 07~Sept07, if I recall correctly).
 * Only the last one is a big deal, but then again, once you're a B-crat that should change. You should ask yourself if you'd be willing to be a B-crat, and then if you'd make those changes you need to be a decent one.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't care about Guild Wars at all, since I haven't been active there for...ever. I only recently logged on twice because 1) I needed to retrieve overdue birthday gifts and 2) someone requested me to. I do not believe admins or bureaucrats have any responsibility whatsoever to be up to date with the game. Heck, look at Tanaric. :D I would be more worried about breaks from GuildWiki, but because the bureaucrat would be filling in when I am not around, then it otherwise would not matter so much. If they said they would be absent for X months, then I would make sure to be more active in that time, and vice versa. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Do we actually need another Bcrat?
 * I agree with Entropy's reasoning on the issue, so yes. If you'd be the one, at least this far, is still up to you.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, we do not need another Bcrat. But I would like one. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 13:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 21:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Auron (Talk/Contributions)
I would like to throw out Auron's name as a possible choice for additional bureaucrat. Auron is a longtime contributor here, and even though you'll rarely see him posting nowadays, every once in a while he will step in to ban a vandal or respond to some post on his talkpage. He is almost always watching and actually fairly up-to-date with what goes on here. Auron's discretion is second to none and although some may view him as overly blunt, harsh, uncompromising, elitist, et cetera, it is hard to deny that he does not get the job done one way or another. Despite not being actively active, I would place Auron's loyalty to GuildWiki right up there with the likes of Tanaric or Karlos; he distrusts GWW and Wikia, and not simply out of spite either. Being both an administrator here and on GWW/GW2W (as far as I remember), Auron has experience in the duties of a sysop. He has also been involved in many, many disputes between users, both directly and as a third party judge. I trust Auron's judgment to always be for the betterment of the Wiki. You may even say that I learned many of my own attitudes and administrative ways from Auron. If there is any user who I think would serve as Bureaucrat closest to the way I do, it would be him. The difference between Auron and I is only a question of degree...of laxness and detachment, mostly.

Your thoughts, please, since I know this is bound to be controversial. Please note that this post does not count as an "endorsement" of any sort: Auron is still no more or less likely than PanSola or anyone else to be the preson I end up picking. (T/C) 14:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Approve

 * 1) your comment here

Disapprove

 * 1) your comment here

Other comments

 * 1) I will not vote in this, because I am slightly bias. I also have to say that Auron isnt really an active contributor here, and what would the good be in promoting another inactive bcrat? :p. MAY 4 BCRATZ &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 14:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It really depends on what you mean by "active". I said, he does not post. But he watches constantly. That is much more than I can usually say for myself these days - I used to promise I'd at least check my talkpage and such once a day but I don't even do that necessarily anymore. So it's just what I'm looking for, someone who I can rely on to check in frequently and take action if they need to. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)