Talk:Locations

Today I expanded the list of explorable areas. I deliberatly created TWO versions for areas with a "The" prefix, because some people refer to them with and some without the prefix. By adding a cross-reference between the two we should have both versions covered. --Tetris L 20:23, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Found out how to create redirect pages in Wiki and pruned the list. --Tetris L 21:02, 8 Jul 2005 (EST)


 * Good stuff Tetris :) 22:21, 15 Jul 2005 (EST)

Arena Information
Two issues: --Karlos 20:07, 15 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Are those arenas listed even real? The ones listed under Competition Arenas (Fort Koga and Amnoon, ...) do not exist.
 * Also, who came up with the name "Shiverpeak Arena" and "Deldrimor Arena"? I would think "Yak's Bend Arena" and "Droknar's Forge Arena" would be more intuitive and more accurate.


 * They used to exist (with those names) long ago on the map, but they were changed in one of the first updates to all be accessed from a single arena outpost (I forget which one). Actually, maybe those ones are still on the map.  Can't check from here.  *shrugs* Either way the names are correct. &mdash;Tanaric 22:28, 15 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * The names of the arenas used here are the ones shown on the ingame map. And all of those arenas still exists, it's just that some of them are now entered via the "Competitive Arena", which is kind of a launch gate. --Tetris L 00:08, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * If you didn't enter the old arenas while they still existed, you can't get to them anymore. A new user only has competition and team (and I guess the low level one in Ascalon).  If you enter PvP and look at your quest log, you can still see "Fort Koga" and some others as an entry there while you play on them.  --Fyren 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * I know they used to exist. But I have seen too many players come to the Henge of Denravi and ask where "Fort Koga" is! I think we could place a historical note. But if you open the map of any character created past that update, you will see that there is only Team and Competition and the Tomb. I think these names should go. --Karlos 06:51, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * In my opinion we list them as maps/levels in the Competition Arenas article under the "Other" section instead of having them as seperate arenas on the master locatinos list. kaarechr 00:08, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)

Images
The images on this page are of horrible quality. Anyone with Photoshop-fu and some free time want to make cleaner (and possibly bigger) versions? &mdash;Tanaric 22:30, 15 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Oi! Don't you dare to diz my l33t Paintbrush skillz!!!11 ;) --Tetris L 00:05, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * They're a good start. I didn't realize a community member had made them, or I'd have been less blunt. Still, in great wiki tradition, collaborate and improve.  Cleaner versions would be nice. :) &mdash;Tanaric 15:33, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Done :) kaarechr 20:26, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * Nice. :) &mdash;Tanaric 20:49, 16 Aug 2005 (EST)

New Structure
I would prefer if we would restructure this page by regions: Instead of ...
 * Regions
 * Pre-Searing Ascalon
 * Post-Searing Ascalon
 * Northern Shiverpeaks
 * Eastern Kryta
 * Cities
 * Pre-Searing Ascalon
 * Post-Searing Ascalon
 * Northern Shiverpeaks
 * Northern Shiverpeaks

I would rather structure it:
 * Pre-Searing Ascalon
 * Explorable Areas
 * Cities
 * Ouposts
 * Post-Searing Ascalon
 * Explorable Areas
 * Cities
 * Ouposts
 * Ouposts

I think we would get a structure this way that "feels more natural" this way, with all the places that are geographically close also close to eachother on the list. I will quickly create a new version of the list on a temporary alternate page so you can have a look and compare. --Tetris L 14:42, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I like that. I think I suggested in some talk page 20 years ago.. I prefer grouping them by Region then location type (city/outpost/exp area) rather than the current type that sorts them by location type then region. --Karlos 17:32, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * The suggested structure seems better so I'm in favor for changing it. kaarechr 20:33, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I'd prefer the regions and "type" categories to be separate. Do you want each article to be in the parent categories, or just the one leaf category?  --Fyren 06:11, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * I was not talking about categorization. Just how they are sorted in this specific article. --Karlos 09:14, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * Ha ha! I knew that.  Really.  --Fyren 09:22, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)

Here is a nice example how the new listing structure might look like (scroll down to the post by britehawk). I really like it. (Instead of the colors we might use the map icons.) --Tetris L 21:29, 1 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Comments anyone? If not, then I will go ahead and create an alternative version of the page with the new structure, so you can have a look and then we decide which one to keep. --Tetris L 18:19, 2 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * I've created the new version under Locations (Test). Please review and discuss. --Tetris L 00:11, 3 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * If nobody objects by tomorrow I will move the current article to a backup location Locations (by Type) and will then overwrite the article with the current article Locations (Test). --Tetris L 22:55, 5 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * I think the wiki bullets and the dashes clash with the icons, but that's all. Maybe some simple icon could be made?  The portal icon off the map for the bullets and one of the various signposts for the locations of interest?  Not sure if the portal will look good, though.  --Fyren 23:32, 5 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * If we go through the hassle of creating a new icon for those, then we should fix the other icons as well. With "fix" I mean: Create versions with a fixed width. With the current version, because the mission icon is so much wider than the outpost icon, it looks like there is an additional indent, like the next tree branch (if you understand what I mean). --Tetris L 00:21, 6 Sep 2005 (EST)

Other / Unlabeled Locations
Should we add locations that are not labeled on the map, but clearly named otherwise (for example on signs or in quest descriptions)? I'm thinking of locations like "Ascalon Settlement", "King's Watch", "Dakutu Village" and others. --Tetris L 19:45, 21 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * That's a great idea, Tetris. How did we miss those for so long? :) Umm, now what do we call them. I will tell you quite frankly, I just renamed them to "in-game locations" and I think that was quite stupid. :) All locations are "in game." So, before I revert to the old name, which I also don't like, does someone have a better name for those villages and settlements like Ashford Village and the Ascalon Settlement? "Explorable Area settlement"? "Unenclosed Locations"? --Karlos 18:00, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)


 * There's also articles like Orr and Arah currently in locations. --Fyren 22:02, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Those could go under something like "Historical Locations". --Tetris L 22:57, 22 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * Until players can actualy GO to Orr and Arah, they should remain in the Lore category. Drascir is at the top of the Ruins of Surmia Mission and Rin is at the bottom of the Nolani Academy mission, they are actual sites in the game. --Karlos 09:13, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)
 * And who stipulated that this list is only for places that players can GO to? To me it is a master list of all locations that make an appearance in the game, one way or another, in present or lore. --Tetris L 21:36, 1 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Because this is a list of locations IN the game. Orr and Arah are NOT in the game right now. They are labels in the backstory and history of the game. Not locations IN the game that anyone can go to or near or around. You are free to make a "Historical Locations" section under the "Lore" category. But to list unreachable non-existent locations under the "master" locations list is very misleading to users in my opinion. What are we going to do? Put an asterisk next to them and say "these locations are not actual locations in the game right now"? --Karlos 04:54, 2 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Again, who stipulated that this is a list of locations "IN" the game? And who says that locations like Orr are not "in" the game just because you can't go there? They are mentioned in descriptions many times. In my book that counts as being "in" the game!
 * Having said that, I agree we should list them separate from the rest to avoid confusion. But not under a separate article. In my humble opinion they should be listed in THIS article because this article is a list of all locations in the game. My $0.02. --Tetris L 18:19, 2 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * :D You just said "This article is a list of all locations in the game!!" Shall we contemplate on the possible meanings of "in"? :) So, the Gods are in the "Rift" should we list that as a location? My idea for this article (which is not necessarily the standard) is that this is a list of all places players can GO to so that they make sure they are not missing out on any place. That is how I use the list. Now, perhaps there exists a user out there who wants to find out about all the locations "talked about" in the game. I just find that user to be VERY rare, while catering to him in this article will confuse and maybe frustrate the regular user. --Karlos 19:07, 2 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * "Shall we contemplate on the possible meanings of "in"? :)"<- Yes, indeed we should, because that's the key point here! As I said, in my book being talked about in the game counts as being in the game. Even if the number of users looking for lore locations may be small, that's no reason not to list them. There are many many pieces of information in this wiki that are of interest only for a small portion of users. Nevertheless we don't remove such info. It should be our goal to provide information as complete as possible, even if it's just for reference. And as long as we list them under a separate paragraph clearly labeled "Lore Locations" or simular I don't see much of a risk of confusion or frustration for regular users. --Tetris L 20:19, 2 Sep 2005 (EST)
 * Find me where I said delete the info. That's right! I didn't. The entire discussion is whether the "Historical Locations" list should be listed here. I say NO it is confusing for the 99% of users who want to use this list. For the 1% who want this info, they will STILL find it in another article. They won't come browse "Locations" to find obscure non-existent fantasy places. They would come search for "Arah" and read about it in historical locations. I just don't picture a user thinking "Hmm, let me see what non-existent fictional places are mentioned in this game world. Let's check the Wiki.. Oh! Darn! They don't have it!!" :) I picture them looking for info on "Arah" and finding it, because we have it. Hmph. :) --Karlos 08:56, 3 Sep 2005 (EST)


 * Ummmm, aren't these all "obscure, non-existant locations" being as this is a game? (Sorry I just had to throw that in there to be an @$$.)  That being said, IMO these location do belong in this article as this is an article for locations  not in-game locations.  Again, only my $0.02.  --Rainith 09:02, 3 Sep 2005 (EST)