Talk:Malign Intervention

Just to check, can anyone verify the note? It was added a long time ago by an anonymous user. I think he also added one that meant to say when someone dies while hexed with this, they don't leave a corpse. --Fyren 00:42, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, the corpse is exploited instantly. And you can't exploit non-fleshy creatures, thus it would make sense if this did not work, but I haven't the time to test it at present. - Greven 02:38, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Confirmed. Only fleshy creatures can be hexed. Also I have tested and can confirm my edit of the table for skill levels 17 and 18, as far as minion level is concerned. RolandOfGilead 13:41, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

I have NEVER seen anyone use this. It definatly needs a buff. if it made the minion under your control if might be a decent skill.--Coloneh RIP 18:51, 8 December 2006 (CST)


 * Yeah, I didn't even know it existed until I got my N to Henge of Denarvi (must have missed it at Beetletun). If the minion was yours, it would be worth it.  Otherwise, it is a hex that can easily haunt you later.  Queen Schmuck 23:04, 4 January 2007 (CST)


 * Oh, it does have a use, not by itself though. Stack it with Deep Wound and Defile Flesh - healing is reduced by a whopping 60%. Ouch. Now top that off with Scourge Healing and a cover hex (Parasitic Bond, anyone?) and...Total monk hate, right there. True, in and of itself the skill looks worthless...but it's really not. You just have to think outside the box. ^^ Oh and btw, in AB, chain-Echo this on a LOT of foes can create real chaos when they start dying and all these Bone Minions are running around. :) Entropy 23:49, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm Defile Flesh actually reduces it to 2/3 or 66%. So, 66% - 20% - 20% = 26% Healing. ^^ I looked at Related Skills - add in Mark of Death and Lingering Curse, the total healing would ((end up being...0%. How's that for Monk hate? I should make a Team Build centered around this. Heh. Entropy 23:51, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * No, you just hit the cap. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * See Healing reduction. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, fudge. On the other hand...

Entropy 00:19, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * LOL! Agreed!  Queen Schmuck 02:29, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * IF the weekend skill fixes are permanent, this got a little bit better as it essentially gives you a free minion to play with (via Verata's Aura/Gaze) and can be combined with Jagged Bones for interesting effect, etc. May or may not deserve The Tag if that happens. Entropy 19:00, 20 January 2007 (CST)

About the spawning minion
Can you use Malign Intervention on it, then verata's Gaze it, then Jagged Bones it, then taste of death it, and repeat? &mdash;Blastedt&mdash; 19:01, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Malign Intervention cannot be cast on non-fleshy creatures. Entropy 19:06, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * Arent bone horrors fleshy...? And why only fleshy.  That makes it suck even more &mdash;[[Image:BlastedtSigleft.jpg]]Blastedt[[Image:BlastedtSigright.jpg]]&mdash; 19:07, 20 January 2007 (CST)
 * You're the MM, you should know better than I. >< Entropy 19:08, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * IMHO, this skill is still Less Able to Make Effective (LAME). This skill requires 1 otherwise limited use skill (LAME) to accompany it to make it useful.  Two lame skills does not make 1 good one.  And the minion is still conditional (may not spawn), and requires you to micro-manage it (your full attention will be required).  You can Jagged Bones + Taste of Death much eaiser with other skills, and might as well throw in Dark Bond too.  The only time I can see Verata's Gaze be worth bringing is if you are planning on dying (or a foe will have it), causing many masterless minions rampaging about.  The only thing I would like to see tested is if Jagged Bones can be cast on a masterless minion, to see if the Jagged Bones caster then acquires a Jagged Horror minion from it dying.  My guess is no.  Queen Schmuck 19:37, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * Ooh, clever abbreviation. I'll just have to put that into the template...
 * I was thinking more along the lines of...cast Jagged Bones and Malign Intervention on the same target. You'll get one Jagged Horror and one masterless Bone Horror. Now cast Animate Bone Minions on the unexploited corpse and Verata's Gaze on the masterless minion. You now have 4 minions from 1 corpse. Followup by casting Jagged Bones on all of those...etc etc. Entropy 19:58, 20 January 2007 (CST)


 * That wouldn't be bad if it worked, and I haven't tried it, but I doubt it will work. MI needs to be cast on foe (guess you might be able to drop it on a foe's minion, but not sure if you can).  JB needs dropped on an ally's minion (not sure about masterless ones). So, the most you could do is MI the foe, and get one horror and corpse out of it ---IF--- *the foe dies while hexed *the foe is fleshy (creates corpse) Then after that, you could create bone minions from corpse, Verata's Gaze the masterless minion, Jagged Bones minions, kill VG'ed minion, then get Jagged Horror minion.  That's a lot of IF's and work to get one extra minion, and the hex itself is mostly worthless (a lot of skills can deep wound something, which is better).  Not sure about you, but if you are a JB MM, you should be more worried about normal way of making minions, and then keeping Jagged Bones on as many as possible (heroes are 10x better at this).  So, about the only way I would think about bringing this skill was if *I was a non-MM DM necro *I had a free skill slot *I was going to be in party with a MM and *The party's MM necro had Verata's Gaze loaded *The party's MM necro would instantly VG the new masterless minion (unlikely) Way too many ifs for me, and Bitter Chill would be a better optional skill 99.99% of the time (I like my BM and DM necros to have around 400 HP (perfect would be sup Soul Reap + Sup Death/Blood + Sup Vigor + 2x Vitae).  BTW, the reverse acronym for LAME just kinda popped into my head when thinking about this skill.Queen Schmuck 03:21, 21 January 2007 (CST)

My new toy. Entropy 21:08, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * Nice toy. :P If the minion was mine upon death, and I could cast it on anything (ally or foe), it would be good. Maybe even if only the minion was mine, I might consider it.  The problem still is that this skill is a wasted skill slot on most builds.  In PvE, healing reduction is seldom effective.  I ddep wound every Ettin I farm, yet they still seem to heal well enough with healing sig, even though they are not high lvl creatures to begin with. So, maybe if the healer was damaged some small amount and I get the minion upon death, ... no, still wouldn't be worth it, unless you were non-MM Death Magic build. Actually, if the corpse was exploited with explosion on death (like death nova hex), and you got a minion, I might like it.  Yes, that would be worth a skill slot.


 * Queen Schmuck 01:58, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ooh. That would make this skill a lot of fun, especially in RA! :) Healing Reduction is more effective when the opponent's getting healed for quick small heals, ala Orison. Larger amounts of healing like Infuse Health or Healing Sig you don't really notice the difference so much...Still, 33% would be nice because that's then even better than Deep Wound. I could see this being used by an Assassin who has lots of "Black _____" attacks. Entropy 22:12, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Aww, I was hoping for more improvements. Well, at least it doesn't exploit the corpse now. Entropy 20:52, 1 February 2007 (CST)


 * I would have settled for death nova like explosion at death. That's ok, they made up for this lame skill by making Jagged Bones nearly the most worthless N elite in game.  Queen Schmuck 23:04, 1 February 2007 (CST)

I don't think this skill is useless. It's useful for a mesmer secondary or primary. I just started a N/Me and Me/N and combining malign intervention+Verata's Gaze+Inspired Hex has allowed me a world of incredible versatility (eg. Malign Intervention->Shared Burden->Verata's Gaze->Inspired Hex->Shared Burden[copy]). The combo is best used if your build focuses on AOE hexes as the ability to copy the AOE hex immediately after turning the minion and casting inspired hex on it is valuable. I suppose shatter hex could work as well, or even hex eater vortex, as a way of doing AOE damage plus subvertly doing AOE enchant removal through an enemies spell breaker. Soooo, if the minion is changed to be put under your control, I'll hunt you all down and slap yas! --74.114.200.197 02:47, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * Ridiculous, taking that many skills when you could just use Arcane Echo...it may cost less energy but you are basically wasing two or three skillslots to slowly echo an AoE hex. And the combo is highly conditional...you need the target to die in X seconds, if the hex is removed you're screwed, if another hex is applied then your Inspired Hex will catch the wrong thing, and...Malign Intervention only works on Fleshy Foes. Did I also mention that the skill does absolutely nothing other than being used for the combo? Same for Verata's Gaze, it's pointless really. Usage is too narrow, and not even terribly good for PvE. That does nothing to change this skill from LAME status. >< [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:53, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Arcane echo cannot function as energy management and hex removal, plus arcane echo has a horrible 30 second recharge, whereas inspired hex has no recharge. I'm just suggesting a combination that offers 1)enemy healing reduction 2)minion raising 3)e-managment 4)hex removal of ally 5)ability to copy one of your hexes or an allies hex(even their elite)...all with 3 skills in the combo. It's really up to you whether you are willing to explore that. By the way Rising Bile seems to fit well. It can be triggered by the inspired hex. I'm just pointing out that some skills are possibly the way they are and not changed because there are combos that exist that the designers are aware.--74.114.200.197 03:02, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * Arcane Echo can function as energy management if you know what you're doing. Try echoing Power Drain? The recharge is irrelevant, Malign doesn't exactly have a great spammability either. Costs more per effect too. Inspired has a 20 second recharge if you grab something with it, ie. it becomes unavailable for further use (no more e-gain or hex removal). Healing reduction is very petty with Malign Intervention because of Deep Wound and much better, less conditional choices, Minion raising for a non-MM is useless tripe, E-management is conditional and barely does anything because you waste so much energy setting up the combo, hex removal only works for things like Hex Eater Vortex (not very popular), copying a hex is better done with Arcane Echo by far, copying an allies' hex is rather bleh, unless they are specced into the same attributes it will be useless, and even if they are...you don't need so many hexes. Carry the ones you want on your own skillbar, don't waste a long combo to grab another hex. I'm sorry but it's still useless. And I highly doubt the designers haven't changed this skill because of that bad combo. More than likely it has never been changed because it would be much too powerful if it was. Consider: currently it offers petty healing reduction, an expensive non spammable cover hex, and a fairly useless minion if the foe dies...and it can only be cast on fleshy foes. Now, if any of the suggested Improvements were made - such as being able to cast on your own minions or allies, giving a Death nova effect, etc - this would be almost like the poor nerfed Jagged Bones, except non elite and a bit harder to work with. It would instantly become a hit skill on every Death-specced Necromancer/Ritualist/other skillbar. It would dominate in PvP...etc etc. So, that's why it hasn't been changed. Not because it is good as is (sucks horribly) but because most changes would overpower it. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 03:26, 22 February 2007 (CST)

I don't know what to say. The fact that it is an enemy, and then an ally seems to be quite versatile. Plus it does not exploit a corpse now and casts in 1 second. I can use malign intervention on an enemy before they die, cast rising bile on the minion, use Verata's Gaze on the minion, Cast Death Nova on the minion, then Shatter Hex, then Putrid Explosion on the corpse, then Putrid Flesh on the minion. I'm still exploring all the possibilities that creating an enemy, whom I can then make an ally are opening up. I'm kinda sad you hate this skill so much. Why despise it so much when it seems to be quite balanced in it's energy cost and cast time compated to bringing Summon Bone Horror instead. --RedFeather 04:48, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * it useful sure, but really annoying for a target caller... I lost count how many times I almost killed one of these minions before the MM gazed it. --Jamie [[Image:Jamie.jpg|24px|(Talk Page)]] 05:06, 22 February 2007 (CST)


 * I never saw those obvious possibilities and can't test them at the moment. Do things like those examples work? Hex, then Verata's Gaze? Reckless Haste + Spiteful Spirit, Defender's Zeal, Mark of Pain, Icy Veins, Fevered Dreams + Infuse Condition if it is your only minion, Assassin's Promise + Verata's Gaze + Taste of Death --Nemren 08:21, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Nemren, that Assassin's Promise idea is a very cool idea! Crap the inspired hex removes that. But it's a neat instant recharge at your command. --RedFeather 14:44, 22 February 2007 (CST)

I think this skills usefullness is to be able to both hex and enchant the created minion, one combo (pretty useless and hard to set up, but fun nonetheless, and one I find demonstrates this) is where I would hex my opponent with Malign Intervention when they were close to death, and once they had died, I would Icy Veins+Rising Bile the minion, the Verata's Gaze it and use Death Nova. I could then use Putrid Explosion on the corpse, and either allow the minion to follow me until it died from combat, from Rising Bile ending, or if I decided to kill it with Taste of Death. Like I said, not a very useable combo, but fun, and shows some of the usefullness of this skill. Amyrlin Seat 16:51, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * You can't enchant the minion this raises since it's not an ally. --Fyren 16:59, 16 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Sorry, I must not have been specific enough. I meant that you can enchant it if you take control of it with a skill such as Verata's Gaze.  Amyrlin Seat 17:18, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Oops, I had missed the gaze part. --Fyren 20:12, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Funny use.
I took a look at the Mark of Pain curse discussion, and found an interesting suggestion by a certain fella there. When the foe dies and that bone horror spawns, cast mark of pain on it and use Verata's Aura to bring it under your control. Now whenever the enemy hits that minion, they'll all take damage for it. I guess it's like he says, no too practical, but it's kinda funny. Keep it healed with blood of the master.