Talk:Miniature Polar Bear

Confrmed to be 1000ectos in Starting Bid!! ALLmasked
 * It's not a hoax. Zeek Aran 18:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile/Frog_Talk/20071226 <- Read the second bottom one. Why would they lie..? [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 18:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * True. Its is a CONFIRMED hoax. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  18:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * FFS, I shove a delete tag on, someone puts a hoax tag on, so I remove my delete tag. Now someone adds the delete back on!!! >__< [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 18:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

READ THE THREAD! We have mods and many other people CONFIRMING IT IS REAL! It's even being sold on guru auctions! Zeek Aran 18:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If this is real it makes gaile look a bit stupid. Lord of all tyria 18:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gaile makes Gaile look a bit stupid. She's made mistakes before. The pet doesn't have to be added with her permission. Zeek Aran 18:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * We can't delete, it will recreate by a noob. Plus, we've got other hoax items on the wiki. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  18:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Srsly, the evidence weighs in favour of it being real right now. Lord of all tyria 18:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * ONE person "has" it. No one else. That's a hoax if I ever saw one. Besides, putting it up AFTER THE EVENT IS OVER? putting it in, then removing how to get it? come on now... [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  18:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v291/zeek_aran/GW/Polar%20Bear/ I'll remove those pics from my photobucket as soon as Entrea believes me. Zeek Aran 18:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm talking to someone who says they have it, trying to get trade confirm/deny RT | Talk  18:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Read this. Gaile said its fake. Strange... [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  18:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The link was posted on the first page of the thread. None of us believed it until we saw it. Zeek Aran 18:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops for assuming that was the link to the Gaile Talk page. Zeek Aran 18:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, that pic with the panda in it too has be uncertain. Still, I'm leaving the hoax tag until it is confirmed. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]Entrea Sumatae  [Talk]  18:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * [look at the pic at the bottom]--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 18:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Gaile: "...know nothing of a planned mini of a polar bear," That doesn't confirm it's fake. Zeek Aran 18:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OFc teh person who has it stopped talking to me after I said I needed noe for guildwiki for licencing reasons. <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  18:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * THEN STOP FAILING AND FUCK OFF TYVM -- Bug [[Image:Brown_stink_bug_adult_copy.png|19px||My Talk]] 19:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I bet this is hoax, otherwise there would be more confirmed pets
 * when did gaile ever say there wasnt one?...all she said was she didnt know about it.24.47.18.113 05:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * She didn't. Your average GW player has extremely poor reading comprehension skills.  --68.187.144.197 20:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Serious Point
If we look at Bladed Aatxe for example, which also has a mini replication, there's no page devoted to the mini. Should the same be done to the Polar Bear Article? ---Jamster--- 18:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It had to be proven first. Zeek Aran 19:00, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It couln't be proven in the polar bear article itself..? [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 19:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * She could just be trying to get you off her back, admittedly. I wouldn't like you stalking me. [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 19:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it's a hoax, we shouldn't add the data to the Polar Bear page. If it were real, then yes, but it's not. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  19:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is...--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 19:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You've seen it? I sure haven't seen any proff at all. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  19:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You've seen plenty of proof. Zeek Aran 19:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not anything ingame that i'm sure isn't faked. What can I say, I'm a skeptic.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  19:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

So a whole thread of people saying they saw it ingame isn't good enough for you? Zeek Aran 19:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Just some screens aint gonna convince me. The Terro Shield also had some screens, also of Trades. Meh --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 19:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

So, they got a bunch of friends to post. Whatever, i'll believe it when I see it. <font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  19:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So everyone who posted there is a friend? Including mods? Wow. That's just sad. I'm not even going to bother with this anymore. Zeek Aran 19:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking your a friend if you're getting so upset over this. Btw, instead of deleting, I think that we should keep this here- Somone is bound to find out about it, and search wiki for it. If anyone does, its better for them to see this is a fake. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 19:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I honestly doubt it's fake. There's been too many confirmations that it exists for me to believe it's fake anymore.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 19:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking that all of the so called "confirmations" have been the same person creating an account several times. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 19:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you run a WHOIS by their IP?--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 19:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

One last thing before I stop F5ing this page. In the thread, a mod, and others, none of which who have the lowest title for postcount, have said they've seen it ingame, along with several screenshots posted. Bye. Zeek Aran 19:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * ehh, I've never trusted guru anyway. I'm wanting to see it for my own eyes before I believe it. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 19:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So to get over all the fuss - if the owner of this bear shows it to RT then we're done. Right? More hard proof you can't get. --[[Image:Progr.jpg]] -- talkpage 19:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, or me. Unfortunately, He seems to be ignoring us right now. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 19:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't show it to me, I gave up. Needed to come off, what do you say we play mafia again? <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  19:44, 2 January 2008 (UT
 * I'm sorry I missed this whole thing. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * one of the people whose names are on the screenshot is set to do not disturb. three are offline. one is ignoring anything that talks to him/her. Makes you think its fake, to be honest. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 20:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or that they're just tired of people asking them...--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 20:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If they were valid, they'd tell one of us and have us leave them alone <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  20:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's go by the old adage "Guilty until proven innocent." It's a very well-executed hoax, though. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  20:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Can we have anon lock on this page <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  20:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's thesame as the freakin terror shield. Noone who supposedly has one responds, and there are screenshots of it in game and of a trade. TexMod+Photosoup imo --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent)YA <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  20:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Defo. Marco seems to think its real for some reason... --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 20:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * the best way to prove it is real would be if we knew how to get it and until then its a hoax no matter how many screenshots their are (within reason)--[[Image:Chris1645.JPG]] 20:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone has their opinion, I'm entitled to mine.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 20:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Wasnt saying your not. --[[Image:Warwick sig.JPG]] <font face="vivaldi" size="4">Warwick (Talk)/(Contr. ) 20:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Gaile Post :D ~It's real. -- Bug 20:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay. I win.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 20:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well that's stupid. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Told you so. God damn you people are stubborn. -.- Zeek Aran 20:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If it wernt for stubborn people, we all wouldnt exist, probably --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Non-stubborn people are what give Wikipedia a bad name =\ [[Image:Ruricu-sig.png]] ( Talk • Contribs) 20:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello Now i wanna see a lil fella apoligizing on guru Dont forget my free blowjob and cookies ^^ Witchblade 20:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, don't get your hopes up. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * And neither get your dick up --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 20:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Just personal opinion but i think its a fake. If you examine them closely the polar bear is identical to the panda bear but without the black.  Plus why wont this person who has the Polar Bear not agree to showing it to anyone? and Gaile Gray said she did not know about this.  It seems strange to me.  Once again its just my view on it but it doesnt seem right to me. --X lorien X 21:10, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gaile already confirmed it. your point is moot.--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 21:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Really? Give me proof that she did. --X lorien X 21:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3499082&postcount=205 [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 21:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * How do we know thats not Gaile Gray saying that? JK :P i Stand corrected at the time it seemed like a fake i guess not. --X lorien X 21:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I now accept the fact that it's a real item. If Gaile says it is, you were all right. Sorry for being skeptical, it's in my nature.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  00:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Let's look at the facts shall we? 1. Only Witchblade on GW Guru has ever shown any screen shots of this item, and in fact seems to have started it. All other screen shots on both wikis are copies of Witchblade's. 2. Several people buying, but NO ONE is selling, not even for a stack of ectos. If this existed even in low numbers, there would be some greedy player selling, somewhere. Even contest winners can be seen selling rare minis from time to time, usually right after they get their code. 3. There are claims of people farming for 5-7 hours straight with no results. For a holiday item, that is extremely suspect. 4. It has its own wiki page. No other mini has its own wiki page. New minis just get added to the Miniature page. I, for one, do not believe this hoax, regardless of any screen shots of Gaile posts claiming it was secretly activated by some GW programmer. This just screams BOGUS! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.20.235.96 (contribs).
 * Having a wiki page doesn't prove or dispprove anything. We have pages for minis that don't have full sized counterparts. &mdash;<font color=#ff44aa>♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 09:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fact is, Ursula the White is the model used for this ^^ --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 09:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I beleve Gaile Grey's post. so there <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  09:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I must admit, I am one of the people who spent hours farming this Damn bear... 11 hours to be exact, and all i got was 6 stacks of cc shards... my life blows--Schlumpy 11:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw a mini polar bear today (Sat. Jan 5, 2008) in Kamadan.
 * We know it's real <font color="Blue">RT </B>| <font color="Black">Talk</B>  18:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Intimidation
there is still only 1 confirmed pet right? is it possible that some could be intimidated by this. everyone is saying a hoax, strong feelings have been put here so if saying "I got 1!" could be pressuring since being labeled a liar or a cheater/hacker or whatever isnt very comforting.

No there was a few more..and i have seen a polar bear with a character that was not the person with the confirmed drop.

Items
What happens if you get 5 mini polar bear drops?because it says u get 5 of the following items from wintersday chest.lol,and btw how much are mini poalr bears worth???68.3.17.26 19:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you get 5 polar bear drops, go play the lottery, because thats about a one in a billion chance. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  00:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Being struck by 10 consecutive meteors is even more likely ;). Yes, I meant those real ones, lurking somewhere in the dark and evil sky up there ^^. Kageji Hisato 14:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not possible to get more than one polar bear from a single chest... (Wintersday Chest) -{[ <font color="Black">PUL ]}- 20:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How do you know? By testing it? :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 09:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The chest will contain one of each from the following list. ... The chest will also contain one random item from the following list. you will always get those 4 items + 1 random drop (witch might be a mini polar bear). and yes, i got thát info by testing :P -{[ <font color="Black">PUL ]}- 10:41, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

drop rate?
farmed the quest over 20 times still no luck, any1 got one yet? (Omfg rank ten guy 19:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC))


 * I believe Witchblade wasnt the only one some other screenshots on guru prove it if they're not fake o.0 --X lorien X 21:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * According to Galie on that guru thread linked to on the page, the mini was added at the start of wintersday. It took until the VERY LAST DAY of the festival for somebody to post about it on guru and here.  Even if 5 or 6 droped to newbie players that didn't know it was a new item, if Galie is to be believed then the drop rate seems to be astronomically low. - TK Hawkins


 * I think this is one of the issues I take with Anet--that a holiday item would be secretly added with a drop rate so astronomically low that almost no one got one. It's a holiday item--available for a limited time--and entire days of farming by many players produced nothing.  Now we have no chance to ever get one.  IMHO, it should have been easy to get, like the Mini Pig, but maybe a bit more challenging.  I actually wrote to Anet twice to see if it was real or a hoax but I got the standard "post on the forums" messages.  I doubt they consider this a forum and the one on guru was closed before I even read it.  >.<  I think it was extremely cruel of them to do this to us, more so than usual.  They should offer it in the Chest of Wintersday Past so we can farm it forever, or offer another way to redeem themselves.  I think this whole debacle has angered a lot of players, as can be seen from the emotion posted here.  If there was a way to organize a massive grass-roots campaign to get them to offer it again at a reasonable drop rate, that would be awesome!  --Willow R., avid mini collector  ^_^
 * Another QQ post, do you want to make it like Mini Pigs so everyone had 15 of them? Blue.rellik 03:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * At least making them very rare Chest of Wintersday Past drops would bring more than like, 10 into the game. Of course, then map pieces would be really expensive items... [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  03:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Would be good for us who had all maps :P

Merge
I think this is a special enough mini that it needs its own page, especially since the name doesn't match the model (You don't see Miniature Pig on the Warthog page, after all) <font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The most special thing about it, is the fact it uses a diffrent model. Wich is just a few keystrokes, really. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It really is different, none of the other minis created so far have had incorrect model names... [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Mini Pig. Pig != Warthog --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but at least there isn't an animal ingame named "Pig"[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Err... I think I accidentally stumbled across a precedent for leaving the page, we don't have Mini pig merged with Pig. Sure, the models aren't THAT different here, but they ARE different. <font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:20, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Pig isnt an in game NPC/Monster/Selectable, so it doesnt acutally "exist". Diffrent story. Imo, only the Black Moa deserves a diffrent page, because it has a long to-do list and notes and whatnot. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I really think that the strange model deserves its own page. In any case, I don't really have any more to add, let someone else decide it.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * /sigh. My suggestion is to do what we did with Mallyx; leave a note on Polar Bear where to find it and what it looks like, and perhaps a note on Ursula's page as well. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Shadowcrest 04:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but at least Miniature Mallyx WAS mallyx. Miniature Polar Bear is NOT a Polar Bear. [[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * DOes iT matTeR? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * YeS!!1[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not rly. I mean, we can leave a simple note on the Molar Bear/Usurreal the White page, and get it over with. I could say a Jade Armor doesn't match the model, because it doesn't match the Jade Brotherhood look. Insane rant ftl, btw --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

BAH! Stop refuting my petty, senseless claims with your fancy "logic"! <font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  04:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * But, I'm restless! --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]]-- (s)talkpage 04:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So, what're we going to do with this? --<font face="vivaldi" size="3">Shadowcrest 05:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * We could take a vote--[[Image:Chris1645.JPG]] 13:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it should get its own page, because its such a rare mini pet..and because of the ammount of fuss it created. But more to add to the page would probably be helpful..does anyone know yet how many comfirmed drops there were because ive seen at least 3 polar bears..different days but different characters. 10.42 pm, 5 January 2008


 * I say keep it's own page. Sure it's named polar bear, but it doesn't quite look like one, which would require a separate screenshot of the polar bear animal and for the polar bear mini.  Why bother? Keep as it is.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 19:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Acquisition
So, any word on whether it will ever be available again? Or is this the new uber-ultra-rare? How many exist? RoseOfKali 20:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gaile says it will (probably) be back next Wintersday[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea Sumatae  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  22:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Grrrr.... >_< I understand the secrecy with Mallyx, how they let it be "discovered" and what not, but this one got discovered on the same day it got taken away! :(  Now to wait a year for another 7-day chance to get a few more into circulation.  Lame...  It should at least be added as some low chance of drop from the Chest of Wintersday's Past or whatever the thing is in the snowman dungeon.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

zaishen chest
mark my words, within a few months someone will find one in a zashen chest -{[ <font color="Black">PUL ]}- 12:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't give fakers more ideas >.< Although you have a point, tbh. [[Image:Jamster Sig.jpg|19px]] ---Jamster--- 13:00, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Doubt it'll show up in a Zaishen chest. Wintersday's Past is a different story.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)