Talk:Pre-Searing quest XP

Ok, so after calculating, re-calculating, screaming bloody hell at the wrong math and re-calculating yet again, I think I finally got this right. Someone please verify, and update Pre-Searing_quest_list if I was still wrong... Thx. (By the way, this is supposed to be somewhat useful for LDoA's, feel free to move into Mainspace if you can find a good place for it.) RoseOfKali 09:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Best profession?

 * Hell, nice job! What's in your oppinion, the best class for a attempt at LDoA? And why? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 11:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I think this would be great in mainspace.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:19, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI The quests listed at the top add up to 9,400 for me, too. Have you considered using tables instead of lists? For example

This table is great for total possible exp, but does not tell you what each quest gives, in case you have completed some early, on purpose or by accident. I had to lookup each quest's article to see how much it gives to figure this out for my character, and decided to make a page in case someone else wanted a reference as well. Also, some quests can be lost forever (Gwen's Flute can be recovered, but not the others), so that's worth noting as well, which needs a quest-by-quest break down. Also, you either compromise the 850 XP that I mentioned in the notes, or you cannot get any skills at all.

To answer Arnout's post, I EC'd typing this:
 * As far as professions are concerned, I'd just recommend what you like, because you will be staring at the back of that character's head for a long long time. There is no "best" combo, it all depends on your preferred play style.  The key is to not get bored to death.  As long as you can do at least about 50 damage before you die during a death-level, you can do it (has to be without damage-over-time skills like bleeding or firestorm or conjure phantasm or symbol of wrath - last thing you want is your target to die while you are dead).  Getting to 16 can be done with any profession.
 * The difference in possible quest XP is negligible, since it varies by 750 XP at most, and that's a mere 8 extra kills of level 19 charr (can be done in 1 to 2 deathlevel sessions). This analysis was more for figuring out how much DL you would have to do at lvl 19 before you can max yourself on the remaining quests.
 * Something to keep in mind, though: Charr shatter enchantments, so you will not be able to use any while killing them. Ether Feast and Troll Unguent make great heals in there, or Orison of Healing if you invest somewhat into healing prayers.  Heal Sig can be good if you can hide behind a wall/hill to use it, or you might be dead by the time it casts.
 * Bane Signet is a great KD for the warriors and rangers, and even at 0 smiting it still does 52 dmg to Frenzied warriors (I used it all along until I chose a Necro secondary for no reason other than the extra XP ^_^).
 * It's a good idea to invest in GotY edition to get some max weapons, especially if you want to play as a martial class, but also helpful to casters with a 15 energy staff, and a spare spear of shelter and shield for extra defense when you are pulling and die too fast. 8 Defense +7 vs. physical (and a bonus +30HP) is a lot in Pre, almost as much as fully-runed set of armor.
 * Having a ranger pet, ESPECIALLY a Bear, is rather overrated, since you can't use it during death-leveling, which is the majority of your time before you reach lvl 20. However, you can death-level a Strider and have a level 20 pet to help you get to 16, he tanks exceptionally well.  You can get it to level 20 even very early on if you have a level 16+ friend who is willing to death-level it with you and then let you charm it, and you don't even have to accept a ranger secondary to have one, just keep the "test" skills with you.  Troll Unguent is also a decent +3 regen at 0 attribute that cannot be stripped by the charr.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking M/E. Damage skills, mad healing, and GoLE. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 19:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And M would be? :P Mesmer is not bad for Ether Feast and Conjure/Empathy when you are getting to 16, but you get the worst armor/insignia to fight charr, so you have to get good at hiding behind obstacles from the rangers.  Also, make sure to TAKE and complete (but not take reward) all the secondary profession quests before you choose a secondary, you can take the rewards when you are 19.  The only one you have to take reward for is the one from Aziure in order to choose an E secondary.  Monk is actually NOT "mad healing" because all you get is Orison, all enchants will be stripped from you.  So actually, be it monk/e (orison) or mesmer/e (ether feast), that ONE skill is all the healing you get, because the rest are enchantments, including Aura of Restoration. ;)  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant monk. And what about Reversal of Fortune? Are they good enough to strip that? Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 11:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if you have a group of charr wailing at you, it doesn't really matter if they strip it or not, you need relatively high protection prayers for it to be of any use, and I'd rather spend those points in healing or smiting instead (or fire if you're already Mo/E). So, either way, no matter what caster you choose, your armor forces you to hide behind obstacles until you're a high level (= more HP and higher healing), or you will die rather fast.  Once you learn the terrain, you can get quite good at it, there are plenty of places to hide from arrows.  Stalwart insignia is also good for any class versus the rangers and warriors, caster charr don't do nearly as much dmg.  Other than that, casters are kind of at a disadvantage in Pre when it comes to armor.  The inherent +20 vs phys for W's and +30 vs ele for R's is pretty helpful.  Getting a "charr" shield is also good.  There's a no req quest reward Tall Shield that gives 4 armor, +10 armor vs charr, +15 HP, but I forget what quest gives it.  It's far better than the bonus serrated shield as most people can't spend 9 ranks in tactics.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 05:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Tables from List, part 2
I, ahem, stole your data to store in my excel sheets (I like being able to manipulate the data in ways that the wiki doesn't offer). As long as I was doing that, I thought you might have use for the data in table form. I changed three things to fit it into a single table: made the location a column; made "losability" a column (instead of 'emboldening), and shortened the note on the Flute.

Feel free to use (if helpful) or delete (if not).

Regardless, I'm really glad you're putting this together. You have saved me (and countless others) a lot of time. I'm looking forward to the finished project. &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 07:37, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Not bad, but this doesn't indicate which quests are available to what professions, since many of them will never be available to you depending on your professions choice. If you can split them into the 3 main sections that I did (available to everyone, no exceptions; available to those with matching PRIMARY only; available to those with a matching primary OR secondary), that would probably be better, because then you can more easily recognize what quests you can and cannot do. RoseOfKali 15:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, haha, this is only the first section, nm. :P Just needs linkified. XD RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 15:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, just the 1st section...I figured I'd wait to see your preference (tables or lists). I'll put together the other two lists shortly...and add linkification.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 16:10, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the help. :) Tables do look a bit more professional.  I started this as my little pet project to see how much DL I have to do when I'm 19 (I've already completed some quests, for skills and out of boredom :P), but then I decided to share this thinking what if someone else can find this useful, especially since it's not "one size fits all professions" kind of deal.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 16:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Like I say, this stuff is great. I think the wiki needs more analysis to complement its troves of data. (And the advantage of the wiki: you don't have to do all the work by yourself.)
 * If you're interested in easier table making, check out the tools on my user page. WikEd does some context highlighting, has a useful search/replace, and improves the wiki's native diff tools. There's a link to a harvard.edu utility to turn pasted excel text into tables. By the time your read this, there should also be a link to another FF addon for copying tables so that they have tabs instead of spaces.
 * Wiki tables are still going to be PITAs (e.g. to add columns, you have to copy the table back to Excel (losing the formating, linkifications) and start over). But, with these tools, they're manageable PITAs.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:00, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If Excel could save its tables to Open Document standrads (OpenOffice), you could even upload them to the wiki! -- ◄mendel► 17:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever you both just said, you might as well have said it in Chinese, which is why I'll let you do... whatever you said to do. ;) RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:10, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL. 这是电子表格转换为一个表. Does that help? ;-)
 * Mendel: are you saying if I take the time to start using Calc, I can eliminate the middleman and paste directly to the wiki from the spreadsheet? That would make it worth running both (I still need Excel professionally.) (I still can't believe how hard it is to webify excel docs, never mind wikify them &mdash; MS still uses a new style per row (or sometimes per cell) in HTML, instead of a proper style sheet.)
 * RoK: np; I'll put together the other data in table form.   &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF )
 * How do I use the "The preceding un-signed comment was added by bla bla bla" template again? RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 18:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * if the rude wikian would just sign his comments, you wouldn't need to ;-)  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 18:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But then I would have never unraveled the great mystery of how to sign for the rude wikians. XD RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 19:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Rose, see GW:SIGN. TEF, no, you can't paste directly, you can upload the spreadsheet as you would an image, but it won't be displayed. Anyway, I'm doing these sorts of tables in Writer anyway, and for that, I can just use the text<->table conversions, ideally first replacing || with a single character that I then use as column delimiter, and vice versa. -- ◄mendel► 19:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, that works, too. I'm doing wiki->excel via table tool, transform, wikify, paste to textpad, stylize, paste to wiki edit, use wikEd to finish. A lot of steps, but I have a lot of WYSIWYG to help...and the steps are transparent. It sounds as if Writer is equivalently PITA, but the pains are different. Definitely worth trying.  &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 19:53, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To convert the table above to Writer:
 * Mark columns in edit view, paste into new Writer document
 * Replace \|\| with \t (check "regular expression" option!)
 * Replace  with nothing to get rid of leading |
 * Mark everything, then Table/Convert text to table
 * Sort table, delete - rows.
 * To convert that back,
 * Marke everything, Table/Convert table to text
 * Replace \t with || (check "regular expression" option!)
 * Replace $ with
 * Manually add | to start of first line.
 * Copy code to wiki.
 * Not very PITA, is it? -- ◄mendel► 20:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Tables from List, part 3
Some additional tables; as before, please use if you like (delete otherwise).

Thanks. I'll incorporate all the tables into the article later. RoseOfKali 20:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Moved
Yay, my first move evar! XD I hope everyone likes it. RoseOfKali 02:31, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Added link to Legendary_Defender_of_Ascalon. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 02:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Awesome work. Congrats! Well done. Woot! &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 06:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * TY! :D RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 07:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well done, you two! -- ◄mendel► 10:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Requirements of 2nd profession quests
IMO, the requirements for 2nd profession quests are unclear. The current style is to note under requirements the circumstances under which you can lose the ability to choose the quest. I would like to change that emphasis (across those 6 quests) to focus on the requirement rather than the exception. The "note" would be moved to the Notes section. For example, Requirements
 * Prophecies Pre-Searing Character
 * Test
 * Profession: Warrior Primary or Warrior Secondary or Non-Warrior without a secondary.

...

Notes
 * This quest will become unavailable to non-Warriors who have decided upon a non-Warrior secondary profession. Be sure to accept the quest before formally choosing a secondary profession; this allows you to complete the quest and earn the reward at your leisure.

IMO, this fits better with the quest list/LDoA guides. What do other ppl think? &mdash; Tennessee Ernie Ford ( TEF ) 17:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, so the ONLY requirement for TESTING a secondary profession (i.e. the Grawl Invasion for Warriors, etc.) is completing your PRIMARY profession test, which is listed as "MUST BE COMPLETED TO LEARN ANY SKILLS."  This seems clear to me that any quests that teach you skills will be unavailable before doing so.  Obviously, you must have not yet accepted a secondary, or you wouldn't be testing one.  In the case of a Warrior primary, you can do ALL warrior skill quests AFTER you completed the WARRIOR's test.  In the case of a non-warrior primary, you can try the Grawl Invasion ONLY, and not any other Warrior quests, before you have a secondary.  The Primary Profession test requirement still applies, but it now matches your primary profession.  ONCE you choose a Warrior secondary, you MUST have already completed the Grawl Invasion in order to choose Warrior in the first place, so Grawl Invasion is NOT available to anyone who has already chosen a second profession, Warrior or not (unless you are a PRIMARY warrior).  This logic applies to all other professions/tests/quests/etc.  Does this answer your question or clear up your confusion?  The third requirement you suggested above is, unfortunately, not only redundant, but wrong.  And please, Prophecies Pre-Searing Character?..  No, DUH?  The quests are offered in Pre, so you must be in Pre to take them, and there's only one way to get to Pre... start there.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, and one last thing, the complete requirements for the quests can be easily looked up in the quest's article, no need to repeat them here, they are all linkified. The point of THIS article was to tell you which quests can be lost and how you can lose them, so I only see it appropriate to list just the exceptions.  Most people who seek LDOA already have some idea on how the game works, and if they are using this wiki for research, they know that each quest article lists the requirements for it.  This is a reference guide for the title seekers, not a baby steps handbook on how to play the game.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:29, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I changed the article a bit, I hope this clarifies any remaining questions. If not, let me know.  Sorry for the wall of text, I'm still recovering from Valium, had a root canal retreat today... >_<  So if I sounded harsh or something, please don't take any of my comments to heart.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.png]] 04:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC)