Talk:Game updates/Archive14

today
Hooray, we can now buy gold again...why did they have to re-allow them in... >_> 65.93.218.50 22:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the gist is that ANet can now permaban people / not have to refund their money after 7 days. Some laws in Taiwan essentially made it impossible for ANet to keep these people out. But in the good ol' U.S. of A., ANet can do what it needs to. JonTheMon 22:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So they are saying « come to us so we can ban you » ? Funny... TulipVorlax 01:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And Canada ;)72.141.194.123 05:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think someone at Anet was bored and decided to read their own EULA which states that the EULA will be interpreted according to US law regardless of the nationality of an offender--Cobalt | Talk  18:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Didn't Microsoft make that mistake in the EU? They can interpret their EULA any way they want, but they can't compromise the sovereignity of a foreign nation through it. Taiwan's laws are valid in Taiwan, American law is not. Utter Havoc 23:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's also the fact of the physical location of the servers you play on to take into account. That's why Taiwanese users PLAY of servers located in North America. I doubt that they made this change without consulting someone with knowledge of how international laws work... &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 00:36, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As explained by the dev team, they changed the Taiwanese players to NA servers so that they follow US laws instead of Taiwan laws. -- [[Image:User Gem sig.png|Gem]] (gem / talk) 00:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * My my, and I thought that was an April Fools Joke. Now they got me. --Birchwooda Treehug 01:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * ^^Yeah, so did I :(--Cobalt | Talk  12:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

So basically Taiwan is now the 51st state of America? d-: Anyways, yay for my mule being back! -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 12:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Dam imperialists, expanding your empire--Cobalt | Talk</B>  12:38, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG I can see it now - "You give us Taiwan and we'll stop bothering you about Tibet." Headlines: Guild Wars solves national crisis! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the Olympics opening ceremonies d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 12:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * ROFL!--<font color="Blue">Cobalt </B>| <font color="Green">Talk</B>  12:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, now I have two accounts on the NA server... Guess I'll transfer one of them to the EU one. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 12:46, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Why stop there? Do what Gares did and get more accounts to use only for mules! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 12:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I'm not interested in more mule accounts. I just want each of my accounts to be on different servers. (wonders when one'll open up in Africa). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 12:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

What's so good about African servers, Pan?<strong style="color: black;">reanor 17:29, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, their pan is one of the great weaknessess of african servers. Good ping though. (Yes, once again i am desperately bored.) --[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 12:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

odd news
this isn't relevant to GW yet, but might be someday in the future micropayments, anyone?
 * haven't edited wikia in a while, forgot to sign Omnipresentgnome 11:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * NCSoft has had the NCCoin thingy there for a long time already (in Exteel). I wouldn't be that surprised, if you could pay in the current GW store using these coins. I just hope it won't turn GW2 into Microtransaction hell :/ &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 14:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If it will, I think there will be quite a few ppl who will stop playing it. &mdash; <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN 16:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh god... Here come Tormented weapons for $2 or uh... FoW for $10?..  Unless they make it possible to buy more storage with it, I don't want to hear about it. >_< RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's like they're trying to compete with the illegal gold traders. O_o Let's see if they offer a better deal... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know... Most game designers these days know to only offer indirect aids - games which offer ingame items (a la Flyff) which can circulate the market to non-paying players for extortionate prices tend to kill the games pretty fast.--82.16.192.115 23:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Look a new one
Wonder what it could be :072.141.203.119 23:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Something to do with the arena bonus weekend maybe?--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 23:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's skill balances! Look at Shockwave in game- cast time was increased. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, must've been b/c of the overpowered shockwave spike in GvG, me and my friends were running that in TA a few weeks ago, and someone must've took it :/
 * Aegis now costs 15e. Oh, and Lightning Orb lost cracked armor. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Damn GVGers overusing crap.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 23:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * E-Surge now burns 11 energy with 9 dmg per energy. 99 dmg with 16 Dom.
 * Blinding Surge got shorter blind duration, but also shorter recharge. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey Look prot spirit can only be cast on target other ally... O.o ... J/k imagine that happened?72.141.203.119 23:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, gotta go to class. I'll be back in a bunch of hours. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 23:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like Ancestor's Rage cast time is 1s instead of 1/4s? - Brian Fellow
 * Escape wasn't actually changed, just checked. (Though I think it DOES need to be changed, to allow to be kept up 100% of the time at 15 expertise, and to end upon hitting with an attack (or spell)76.174.38.191
 * agreed72.141.203.119 23:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right: let us let the mono-Ranger players balance the skills. Jesus. 90.206.12.149 15:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Nice buffs
Dark pact, fragility, fevered dreams, and chaos storm. Lulz. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 00:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Except just about everything else was nerfed. That definitely hurts the Paragon. -Mike 00:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Beating a dead horse, paras healing WAS useless compared to monk or rit, now...--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 00:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ...there's no point to playing Motivation, and maybe even Paragons at all in PvP. Mending Refrain is one of the few skills (for healing) that seems useful now, and even that was nerfed pretty bad. In the end, Mending Refrain's healing over-time is equal to Song of Restoration and Ballad of Restoration combined. -Mike 01:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Song of Restoration didn't need that recharge nerf IMO. It's an elite skill after all.  Not sure what they were thinking...  Shadowlance 01:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They were thinking: Hey, let's screw with the only other decent Paragon build so the Imbagon can be the only option![[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 01:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I usualy don't do this, but I honestly want to delete my Paragon now, and he's my only Rank 10 Norn Zulu Inuoe 01:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree with all of u. para nerfs were uncalled for, imo. in fact, paras need a drastic buff for revival in PvP, and PvE paras could use help too. God, every useful skill is almost gone. Looking like Imbagon really IS the only intelligent option now. And btw, i cant believe nobody is just, QQ'ing about the derv nerfs. The quick activation skills were staples in many builds, they spiked strong and fast, in quick succession. But, in truth i guess its called for. Dervs are still pretty powerful. Still hating them for paras tho...68.187.16.3 02:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC) Gabe
 * Completely agree, all of the paragon nerfs, except maybe Harrior's toss, did not need any nerf in any fashion. Thank you A-net for messing with the most effective class to make it practically useless in PvP and more so, Hard Areas of PvE. There goes paragon's dreams (w/ only NF) of doing DOA ever.--71.67.243.230 02:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Talk:Paragon confirm statement 3 even further ^^--[[Image:vik.PNG]] ( √ iktor ) 10:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Destruction of the Dervish
Well, they have just officially destroyed the 2 mose universal and useful dervish skills, making them just ordinary attacks. Thus rendering EVERY HA build that used a Dervish or Dervish secondary practically useless. Especially spikes. Also, WHY DID THEY Destroy the paragon's effectiveness AGAIN!?!?! They killed the 2 most useful healing skills the paragon had! Great...just great. On top of that, Obsidion tanks now will have an extremely hard time living in places that have interrupts due to the unnecessary nerfing of Glyph-of-Con.
 * Of all things to buff...Chaos storm?? will that get used even now? no! or if it does, very few people will implement it well.
 * Thank you for buffing fragility. the once semi useless skill, now can be implemented to counter The N/- Contagen HA teams. I'm expecting they'd get raped every time they transfer conditions.
 * Spirits should effect everything. thats it, everything. they are spirits and should not choose to not affect some allies.
 * Death Pact signet had such a significant drawback that it did NOT need to get nerfed.
 * Thank you for reverting Lightning orb back to what it should do.
 * Aegis has recieved enough nerfs. If you're going to make it 15 energy, make it effect all party members period. If you're going to make it have a conditional effect, make it 10 energy.
 * Thank you for nerfing disarm, if a monk or whatever had it, it became another blackout to adrenaline using classes. Now, it's more of a mild annoyance. Though still powerful.
 * one last note, Executioners strike needs to be either buffed or Body blow needs to be nerfed. the skills are proportionately to damage/adrenaline cost. BodyBlow, 7adrenaline, does more damage (and can inflict deep wound); Executioners, 8adrenaline, does less damage (cannot inflict any condition).--71.67.243.230 02:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Except getting 16 ranks in strength doesn't give you a weapon Zulu Inuoe 02:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that it's only temporary.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 02:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Like Wizardboy say, read the official update before whining. Even if they did nerf Dervishes, is that really such a bad thing. (I don't play dervishes personally) If skills become a staple of a build, it makes the things kinda boring. Gawd everytime there's a nerf, it's all whinge whinge whinge, rather than whining about it, why not check the dev update, get some feedback from Izzy and put some constructive feedback on his talk page then THINK about a work around, heavens forbid a new CHALLENGE! --BeeD 02:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem was, no one knew it was only temporary because Anet took forever to update the notes. And what good is constructive feedback? Izzy just ignores it all. --Macros 02:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * At least trying is better than whining about it--BeeD 04:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

lol... They added a quarter of a second to the activation of two skills, and someone actually called this "Destruction of the Dervish". Izzy ignores it all because he's not a blithering idiot. --68.187.147.210 08:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course he's not, its politically incorrect to call his type idiotic, slow for example is better. --[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 08:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Quoted from above "Thank you for nerfing disarm, if a monk or whatever had it, it became another blackout to adrenaline using classes." Wow, I know some folks are eager to brownnose Izzy and ArenaNet and franticly rush to compliment every negative change, but you should really at least pretend to understand the skill you're talking about, or at least have looked at it once before you open your mouth. Disarm was completely useless on a Monk or any other non-warrior class had it, because even before this nerf it required at least a 2 in Strength before it could Disable any skills. Unless you've found some exploit that lets a class use another class's primary attribute, then you're just making a fool of yourself with that comment. ;) ~  <font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  12:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * He ran a haxed Mo/Me/W with a Signet of Illusions that affects attack skills also. AND echo mending. 71.31.149.63 20:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not that we're all aggravated about Izzy or ArenaNet making negative changes. I'm fairly sure most, if not a small majority, is angry about the lack of buffed skills. Even if it is temporary I'd still like to see some ancient skills get dusted off and see the light of day again, even if only being a novelty build during a temporary update. Or I could be wrong, and everyone is just pissed about their builds being screwed up. xD  --68.6.254.84 21:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of them are probably worried about their builds, but it would be nice to see some buffs to the otherwise useless skills. For example, Foul Feast and Wail of Doom have had some great changes. -Mike 21:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * When I say thank you, i actually mean thank you. pay attention to how it is worded.--71.67.243.230 13:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, i've seen monks running disarm and using it to knock out adrenaline period. It didn't give the skills a recharge timer, but it killed all adrenaline that the warrior had built up to that point.--71.67.243.230 13:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you're mistaken, the skill doesn't work like that. It doesn't knock out the skills or adrenaline... but just because I always test things out before I state fact (just incase there is a bug or something new) my fiance and I just tried it and when his monk hit my warrior with disarm I lost no skills and no adrenaline.
 * You clearly don't know what you're talking about, sorry. ~  [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  02:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, you're all maggots. >:( <font color="Purple">Yikey <font color="Green">∞  13:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Icons
By the way, are we doing that now? Skill icons on the changed skills I mean. <font color=#555>Ezekiel <font color=#AAA> [Talk]  09:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see a need for it, but I also don't see a need to remove the skill icons. If someone wants to take the time to add them, no problem imo. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 09:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks better if you ask me. You can quickly skim through the skill updates you want via picture. Not that I have a problem reading, but hey, people like options. -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 09:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I like them too. Thanks to those that added them.  They make it easier to browse and they look professional too.  Shadowlance 16:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

About the updates.
You phail epicly again Izzy, please instead of nerving every single skill in GW try to buff moar for once. Roxas XIII 11:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Once he nerfs every skill they will all be balanced on the scale of worthlessness, genius really. --[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 11:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I am now beginning to beleive those people who said that Anet were deliberately nerfing loads of skills into oblivion to put people off GW thus lightening the load on the server. It all seemed like ridiculous conspiracy theory, but, seriously, so many consecutive updates comprised almost entirely of nerfs, i am beginning to wonder...--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 13:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Makes you think, doesn't it? :P RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Whatever the nerfs are for, they're not for pve play balance, as proven by Ursan Blessing not getting nerfed. Quizzical 17:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems a bit paranoid perhaps but Anet is most likely trying to lose it's customers, the game is probably not very profitable anymore after all these years and they want to focus more on GW2. IIRC GW leeches off of other NCsoft game servers so maybe NCsoft wants to kill the game? 222.153.236.6 01:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems a bit paranoid? Seems a bit RETARDED more likely. Game companies don't try to kill off a game's audience unless the franchise itself is done. They ESPECIALLY don't try to kill off a game when said game's sequel is due out in a year or so. They want people to BUY GW2 REMEMBER? They're not gonna turn around and try to piss everyone off and make them leave GW1, cause THINK ABOUT IT, the people most likely to buy GW2 are THE GW1 PLAYERS. Pissing off and driving away your new game's TARGET AUDIENCE a year before it's release isn't typically a good business practice. DKS01 01:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're a very angry person. 222.153.236.6 01:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, stupidity annoys me. DKS01 02:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good. 222.153.236.6 02:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with DK. Also, it kind of sort of sounds like they're about to separate PvP skill balances from PvE, which will be an awesome move, because most PvP-targeted balances actually UNbalance PvE. Pretty soon we'll have a separate verson of each skill for PvP and PvE, I think... A bit confusing for those who play both? Definitely. But most people usually don't use the same builds and strategies for PvE and PvP, so won't be as bad as it may seem at first look. *Srugs* RoseOfKali 04:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have a charming attitude DK, and I'm also fed up with these moronic nerfs. The splitting up of pve and pvp skills sounds like an excellent idea. Elitist Snob 04:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree with Rose <font color ="#73C2FB" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue 04:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * /agree with the idea of having a pve and a pvp version of the same skill Math Person 19:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Ritualists get @#$%ed up the ass once again.
Nice job Izzy! You have now officially made Ritualists 110% useless in almost every form of PvP and PvE. I hereby claim that Isaiah Cartwright is fully responsible for my converting over to WoW (just kidding, but it is deffinitely on my mind...).Mitch Spiritslayer 16:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So I heard Ritualist dont need AR for damage? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 16:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If they were 110% useless...wouldn't they be able to damage their own team, albeit with all damage reduced by 90% :P--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 18:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, even with several nerfs to them, yea...they still have a small use now...--71.67.243.230 13:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't the apocalypse (its Dec. 21, 2012, lawlz) I don't know what build you are pissing about but there are still plenty out there that make rits a very good option to play! 24.177.99.18 00:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but channeling-wise anyway, the skills are fairly weak (imo) for example: at 15 channeling, meeting the condition, wielder's strike deals 90 damage. spirit burn, conversely, deals 50 + 42 armor-ignoring damage (from burning, as long as degen doesn't exceed -10) wich makes it a pointless skill since damage is weaker, and energy/cast time/recharge is the same.76.174.38.191

Revert ?
Does the note mean all skills updated april 17th will revert to their old description on May 1st ? Big Bow 19:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * We can only hope so...certainly looks that way--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 19:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The current changes to the mesmer skills are great. I might consider using them now. Please leave them alone. Chaos storm deserves to be 5 energy. Even npc's run from it. Blackout is simply stupid canceling your own skills. etc.. you get my drift.

My biggest gripe is how GvG skill abuse effects people who mainly PVE. Thanks for listening. 75.104.128.56 06:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)Morbid Optics

Simple Theory
Izzy is nerfing everything into pointlessness to make GW1 unplayable so people will buy GW2. Although he is discouraging me from buying it if the nerfs/buffs carry over. And, if this theory holds true, then a more gradual nerf of things would have played over better with the fans. --69.133.105.149 04:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This "simple theory" has been stated before, and it makes no sense from a business point of view. Losing GW1 players means losing a substantial chunk of potential GW2 buyers (which is exactly why we have the HoM.  Thus, this leaves us with our eyebrows up, wondering what exactly are they trying to do... O_o`  As I said a little earlier, I'm guessing all this will lead to a split between a PvP and PvE versions of skills, because no matter how you balance things, one realm will unbalance the other, hence all the PvE players complaining about PvP-targeted balances.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Another possibility is that Izzy is finally combatting the Nightfall power creep. Unfortunately, it's over a year too late. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Except it's not just Nightfall skills getting nerfed... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 05:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because Izzy isn't actually sure which skills come from which campaign, since he's never played PvE. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * More nerfs then buffs lately is because they're trying to tone down some of the power creep. This is a more likely theory. (@ Felix. and you never opened the Skills and attributes panel? It has a campaign sorting option you know...) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 05:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What I know and don't know isn't the matter at hand. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Glyph of Consternation
Why did they have to nerf this one? I mean ... as a Dervish Raptor Hatchling Farmer you need it to fire Mist Form and Sliver Armor because else you get interrupted. And since re-using the Glyph can be interrupted you are more or less depending on luck with your timing now. This setup allowed all classes with Elementalist secondary to farm the Hatchlings - now this has become the exclusive domain of A/E or E/A because you need Shadow Form. This is seriously distorting the balance again and again favours certain classes for farming instead of allowing more classes to become farmers.79.216.222.117 06:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Glyph of Concentration was nerfed because it gave PvP spikes a disproportionate chance of success. Being unable to interrupt a crucial spike chain was too much in favour of the attacker, according to Izzy. --[[Image:Scottie_bow.jpg|19px]]  Scottie_theNerd  (argue)  07:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So we will see a nerf of Mantra of Resolve next?79.216.222.117
 * They have no reason to nerf this at this moment in time.. and there is a differnace between the Glyph And Mantra, the main 1 being that

--Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 09:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Glyph = A Skill
 * Mantra = A Stance

Plus it will be reverted anyways, so just wait for may 1st Asrael 09:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So there making the Glypg if Concentration back to how it was? :S .... tbh i didnt notice as i dont use this skill so lol :D --Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 09:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And i also get what youi mean now about the 2weeks thing I looked at the update =] --Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 09:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Hihi : ) Asrael 09:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Belive we have answered or debated why its been nerfed lol :D --Cookie™ (Talk |Contribs) 10:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea, i know what you mean w/ spike chains in HA...it was getting ridiculous to the amount of ele-spikes that you couldn't do anything to. just, oh, we're gonna get spiked...hope infuse works.--71.67.243.230 11:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Lawlums, R/E Raptor farmer ftw :D Blinding magnetic escape gogo --82.16.192.115 20:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Glyph of Consternation? LOL That sums the nerf up very well. Utter Havoc 22:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Updates
Were we supposed to update all of the skill templates from this update? Or will we just revert all of the changes when they revert the update? -Mike 01:51, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't bother, since there's only a week left. But if anyone reeeeeally wanted to do it, they should leave the old description and add the new one with a note saying that it will revert to the old stats on May 1st.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We already updated all the skill templates, and will be reverting them when the time comes. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

4/24/08
It is 3:04 EST now, and fireworks jsut started going off in Kamadan- rumors are of a possible 3rd birthday festival. <font color="Green">X Deity X  19:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * here --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 19:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Prophecies end-game items? Sounds cool.  Time to go play Hell's Precipice again.  Shadowlance 19:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Coolio.--163.248.168.191 19:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems to be bugged atm (at least for me and my party) upon completion of the mission, Drok's loads, then immediately ports you back to hell's precipice. No end game area or items. Yggdrasil 19:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice coding from a-net. A wasted 20 mins :( Lord of all tyria 19:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea lol, im glad i checked the updates first before going to do it. Any1 got a list of what these new items are? 68.230.145.127 20:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

On the plus side, Spirit Bond was fixed (allegedly) => gr8 news! The larry 20:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Same results here - no collector NPC yet. Apparently a new build is coming shortly to fix that.  Shadowlance 20:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Faster Anet, faster... Did you notice how they always screw up something at events ? :P -Flameseeker Mage 20:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Rumors are about a new UW armor. Believe or not? Fexghadi 20:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a wonderful new bug when trying to trade in balthazar faction at the priests. It's an endless loop of them trying to give you heroes, and you can never get to the screen to trade faction.


 * GW may be bugged up but my luck isn't, since I cant see the new weapons yet I went and turned in my b faction for keys. FDS, Iredescent Aegis, Gothic axe and gothic dual axe, tribal shield all golds.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 20:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * UW armor? O_O *Shudders* Don't even want to think about it after the GWEN fiasco...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 21:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So funny, hells precipeice has 4 districts (English) people really care that much about the new greens?

what If you beat proph 1 year ago
If you already beat proph do you have to beat HP again? Because if you do thats some complete bullshit.Mr Prash 21:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hells Percipice is 25 minutes of steamrolling Titans. Seriously, who cares... WaH ftw. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 21:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What would really be bullshit would be if the newer professions from Nightfall and Factions had weapons for their classes. :/ --68.6.254.84 21:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Why that? Theres a Scythe and a Spear in Factions, too. And Daggers and Rit stuff in NF --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 21:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a spear and scythe on the pic on official page.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 21:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's just annoying when they do that imo. Proph doesn't even have campaign specific classes to begin with. I just think it'd be nice to have a restricted selection rather than catering to everyone. --68.6.254.84 21:22, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Core classes get way more skills and armor, and STILL have a larger variety of weapons. It's totally fair for Dervishes and Paragons to get this stuff.--<font color ="Black">D <font color = "#900000">N <font color ="Black">A 21:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * All proph has is Core classes. Besides, wouldn't that make these the only Spears, Scythes and Daggers in proph if they did? --68.6.254.84 21:38, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's true, but the Factions endgame scythes and spears are the only on in that game, too.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  21:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I see your point. :o I just like complaining when they add new sthuff. x3 --68.6.254.84 21:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

New Endgame items have arrived!
The End of Prophecies is open, things work normally for now. Will provide ScreenShots in a few minutes
 * Here's a picture of the Deldrimor Longbow: http://i32.tinypic.com/15zfp6s.jpg

Spirit Bond
FINALLY!!!! Fixed that blasted SB bug! WooHoo!!! &mdash; <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN 19:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A veritable buff for CoF runners. How unexpected. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A buff for 600/smite everywhere, this is epic good <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  19:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Fixed a bug that allowed characters to equip skills from multiple secondary professions. " oO how did that work??--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 19:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I did that when my mesmer was LV5 in Nightfall- I gave her Sunspear skills from three different professions. I doubt that's what this update fixed though. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * maybe it had to do with equipping and unequipping skills so you had 2 of the same skill, then changing professions, and it would stay? <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE 20:00, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a glitch that allowed you to have a bar of different skills from different professions by some bug from switching classes in Nightfall, only saw it once, but I know someone on the wiki links to it. He linked to an external page he was making called "Sights of Ascalon" and there was a subsection called "Multiclassing FTW" that talked about the bug. Only worked with primary attribute skills. --&mdash; Powersurge360 Melancholia  06:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That was J. Kougar, and the page is here.  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * How'd you manage to find it? I went looking for it, but couldn't find it anywhere. &mdash; Powersurge360 Melancholia  04:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't looking for it :P I was just looking at RC on GWW and there were people posting on his talk about the new pictures he put up there, so I figured I'd go look at them and then I looked at the rest of his site, found that, and went "hey, someone was talking about that on one of the game update pages and they couldn't remember where it was! I should go post this link!" So I did :P and that's kinda rambling, sorry, I'm tired >.>  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 04:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ;) ~ [[Image:UserJKougar sig.gif|User:J.Kougar]]<font color="#9300fa"> J.Kougar  06:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Another bug
Anyone else has this that, when they try to click on the X button to close a certain window in GW, that it doesn't work? I'm having this like half a week now. This bug is also present in the Attributes pannel, when I try to lower/increase attribute lvls. &mdash; <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN 09:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Never heard of it. Could it be your mouse button?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't think so, since it works fine when not playing or playing a different game. &mdash; <font color="#00ff84">eX <font color="#00a2ff">tinctioN 17:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've had the same prob, not with the X button though, but with other buttons. I can press em, but i have to press at a specific spot at the button :S. For example, the merchants "Sell" button, it doesnt work if i press on the "Sell" text, but if i press at the very corner of the button, it works. And like you, it works fine in other games with me too. <font color="Green">ZombieKing 20:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For me, it's like, adjusting stacks, where I can't hit the up button, or confirm or anythign, I have to type it out... <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE 21:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I rarely click anything, but whenever I click, there's only the problems of my hand-eye coordination :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 21:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

May 1st
when's this update gonna happen? =P Sir nothing 20:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So was this a stealth revert or something. I'm looking in game and the skills appear to have been reset !!! -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  20:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It wasn't stealth, it's just that we're all too lazy to go nab the updates. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It happened ~20 minutes ago :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 20:31, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * LULZ! Ill go grab them if no one else is.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  20:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * oh, =P ok, i havnt played in a few days so i havnt been able to check the skills, if they were changed or not. thnx. Sir nothing 20:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Np...I hadn't even noticed there was an update. I think I downloaded like 5 files, lol.  I couldn't have figured that was the update.  -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  20:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Do this mean that Winter works?
 * Yes, it works now. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  00:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Buffs
Amagad, I think Izzy's crazy, look how many skills he buffed! <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE 00:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * lol :P --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  00:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * He was forced to revert his edits nerfs by Emily I think :O --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 00:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * that was sarcasm? --LaDoncella 12:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, he was forced to revert most of the changes (one a bit early), cause they were only for the MAT. But idk if he was forced by Emily :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 12:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Noooo not poor Chaos Storm! My PvE Mesmer is angry now :( --[[Image:Progr.png]] -- talkpage 12:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, Izzy BUFFED DAMAGE! AMAZING!!!
Wow. For the first time in a year (or more, i don't remember honestly), buffs to non-support, spike-oriented skills! Maybe I should actually play GW more often than once a week/month. Then again, maybe not...

I hope Izzy is beginning to realize that analyzing individual skill usage statistics in a monthly GvG tournament is NOT the best way to judge whether a skill needs to be changed (there are other modes of pvp you know!). I am willing bet money that that's the only thing he uses as a basis for skill "balancing", and the sooner he begins to realize that this is a horrible way to do it, the better.

On that same note, last time I checked, the average damage/spike output/potential of a player still SUCKS! This breeds horribly sluggish 2-3 healers/support vs. 2-3 healers/support gay-fests in 4v4 (TA/RA). In fact, right now over half of the matches between good (and I use that term loosely and relatively) teams in 4v4 are like this. If you play TA regularly you will know what I am talking about. Every meta/flavor of the month team build out there right now involves at least 2 healers/support. Spikes are dying. This is BAD. Spiking is the heart of GW, if it dies, so will the game.

I would copy/paste this to like Izzy's talk page, but I have a feeling he ignores (or briefly skims) that page and doesn't really care about it. I also have a feeling that most of anet's employees share a similar disposition.--Slic 22:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeeahhh... He nerfed these for the MAT, and reverted them back. In the end, only Wards and Spirits got nerfed. No buffs... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 22:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Methinks that part was sarcasm, just like section 19 of this page. - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  22:34, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You might be on to something there... However, I am still happy about the revert.  --Slic 22:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Then you are obviously not terribly good at the game. No offense meant. Lord of all tyria 15:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And you are obviously fucking awesome right? 193.200.150.189 03:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he is. I wouldn't suggest trying to argue with him [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  23:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * An r3 glad/r3 hero telling me I am not good at the game? Yeah, I'll be sure to take that seriously.  And if youallthinks that this is also part of the sarcasm like in section 19 of this page, you might be on to something there...--Slic 01:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * People who talk highly of their rank/titles make me think less of them, TBH.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 01:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Some clarity before people keep arguing here: I meant that Slic's comment about Izzy "buffing" the skills was sarcasm, just like section 19. Really, it was a planned revert of the "nerfs" two weeks ago. Because I'm kind of confused right now...not quite sure what Slic means. - [[Image:AdVictoriam1.PNG|19px]] Ad Victoriam  03:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What I am trying to get at here is, the only way Izzy and the new people in charge of skill balancing (so, just Izzy really...) will EVER buff good ol= fashioned spike-oriented, straight-damage skills is if its ACCIDENTAL, due to a planned revert. This is, of course, very very sad but very very true.  I foresee that this game will get slower and slower, until all the damage will be either melee that does nothing but cause conditions or casters that spam skills like life transfer.  In fact, I foresee that Izzy will eventually turn on warriors and eviscerate, dev hammer, etc...--Slic 21:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

New message?
Instead of the old message, I got "There's a new build of Guild Wars, please exit and restart the program, and it launched the "log out" window.
 * Maybe it was because I was in PvP?--Rella 01:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

May 6th update
Does anyone know how the exploit worked? I am curious to find out.--75.36.32.87 17:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I know one exploit like that; Venta Cemetary. Bring 3 heroes and the 4 Henchmen from Kamadan. Once you finish the co-op, you're in Kamadan with the Henches, you and your Heroes. Makes Plains of Jarin easy as eating pie with a perfect set of teeth :P --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 18:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They got rid of that??????? damn... that sucks 66.188.187.195 21:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not that, someone found a glitch to get more than 8 people in a party. Caravanning still works. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 21:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh! not the 8 ppl venta thing? 70.231.169.177 22:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, something about using lag to add heroes to a party with 8 people already in it.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  22:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * See also here.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  22:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

May 8
It seems to be cool... TulipVorlax 21:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really, i sold 100 zkeys a week ago, now they're almost double the price, i'm pissed. Moush 04:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not. 76.185.168.84 04:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This update amused me. An entire title track based on using expensive keys to open chest that only drops Creme Brulees half of the time? In addition, there's the discovery that ANet now apparently encourages rank spiking, given their video on the website. 71.189.134.144 05:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The way they keep nerfing all the good damage, that rank/wand spike will be the new flavor of the month soon. Pretty soon, all of GW will be just wanding/autoattacking and spamming various rank emotes that you bought. --Slic 22:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Take note that i put in my comment before the update note actually existed on GuildWiki. But also before understanding all the "ramifications" of the thing. I could have created the new update note page but i was kind of in a hurry...
 * Yes, that title seems a bit lame now, but it will cause me the return do a bit of PvP. I'm generally not a PvP player but i played AB a lot since the end of last automn to get allegiance skills and raise the title on wich they're based. I mostly had no real need of the Baltha won that way. I was unlocking skill here and there for the heroes. Now i'll buy some keys... — TulipVorlax 01:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Izzy hate may end soon
this may prove interesting pve buffs FTW! Omnipresentgnome 15:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're suggesting that only primarily PvE players hate Izzy, you've got another think coming. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but it enables them to actually balance PvP without the PvE players making about 80 pages of rage on guru. lord of all tyria 15:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but guess what happens now. People will complain that PvE skills don't get updated enough and become boring. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 15:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And the people that think PvE is already too easy are about to get some 'fun' changes. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  00:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This does bring up one question: Are we going to add a PvP clause just like the concise one on any skills that are changed? [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  19:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

What I wonder is, how will it work with the Master of Dmges? He currently is in a PvE area, so skills with PvP-altered skills won't be really testable, cause it's all skewed... --- -- (s)talkpage 19:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess PvP characters will only see the PvP versions of those skills with dual descriptions. The Isle of the Nameless question should only come into play for PvE characters who go there.  That being the case, I'm thinking they may give us a way to toggle between the two modes on those specific skills.  (Like double-clicking the skill when you're in the skill control panel or something like that.)  And if you're in a PvP outpost, the PvE version of the skill will have the gray lock icon superimposed over it.  Shadowlance 01:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In regards to Zefir's question, I think we should have two articles for each split skill, since each version is functionally a different skill. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that's all we could do when the cast, recharge, and cost might be different. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  02:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bout time they came up with the SIMPLEST SOLUTION IN THE WORLD to fix these retarded PvE/PvP balance problems. I mean, people have only been saying it since the DAWN OF TIME (ok, since PvE/PvP balance problems arose) --Gimmethegepgun 02:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Are we forgetting buffed PvE skills buffed for PvE will make some monsters ridiculously overpowered? What with higher attributes, higher levels, the actual skill buffs, and in some cases, HM and bosses? Not many skills will be changed I'm sure. I don't know why people are all "zomg now they buff all skillz 4 pve!!11one!!11!1!"--NYC Elite 22:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

More Updates!
Let's wait and see what it is! <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE 03:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please, please, please let it be the pvp/pve skill split! --Cosmitz 03:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It clearly wasn't. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Blessed signet typo fix >.> --Cosmitz 03:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * lol wtf, random update... I think it stealth updated something else e_e <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  03:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Henchmen Removed
Eve, Devona, and Aidan have been removed from the Central Transfer Chamber with this update.





~ <font color="#9300fa">  J.Kougar  04:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This must be accidental, surely? ... --<font color ="#026C00" size="3px" face ="mistral">Ghost Spookje 16:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably just stepped out to get a bite to eat. 151.199.250.7 03:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

exploit?
Fixed an exploit. anyone know what this was? <font color="#900020">PeemXXRubik 20:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I read it and thought they nerfed Ursan... [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  22:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Regina posted this on guru (in reference to the update) "Unfortunately I don't have an information-rich update. A meeting will be scheduled to discuss the details of the exploit. As soon as I know more, I'll relay what information I can." Obviously they don't seem fit to explain what it is, or it's a serious update that they don't want people to get enflamed about. There are many wild theories and speculations about it; the usual things seem to re-occur. Duping, overpowered skill, accidentally deleting something and not wanting to admit to it. I personally am waiting for Regina to get back to us on it. - <font color="Blue">Yellow Monkey (T/C) 22:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

XD Nice, Zef. Zeek Aran 01:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They will never ever nerf ursan. Ursan is the reason many people are now buying EOTN, and that makes anet money ;) Cilero 01:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So customers buy, skill gets nerfed, Anet doesn't lose any money, or am I missing something? <font color="#220000">ICY <font color="#550000"> F <font color="#990000">IFT <font color="#550000">Y <font color="#220000">FIVE  06:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Successful business isn't about not losing money, it's about making it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 06:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Crashing
Anyone crashing when they try to load GW...or is it just me? 123.100.119.61 02:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't had any problems logging in, but I have been getting HUGE lag spikes while trying to do UW and FoW. It's killed me twice and I've only had a few problems with lag before this update. - Kycoo7 17:10, 14 May 2008

Lots of lag for me today too. GW-Yggdrasil 22:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that - the connection indicator lamp is almost constantly either yellow, orange or red. Average ping reply is around 1 second - I think I'll put off raptor hatchling farming for a while -rubberbanding is way bad.79.216.203.35 11:23, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The dev up-date today
I read on the official wiki that they released a dev up-date today that will put some skills on that have been nerfed bad for PvE becasue of pvP on different servers. Just wondering if it should be here?Mr Prash 19:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Uhh no, because this page is for GAME updates. DKS01 21:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Can we put a link to the dev update page in this article? Like next to the link to the official updates page? It has some useful information sometimes and I can never remember how to get there... Thx.  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 03:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

22/5 New Build
Looks like the Skill balance has Happened. <font color="DarkGoldenRod">Himm <font color="Red">Taeguk  (T/C) 22:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea. I'm grabbing the update, but GWW is exceptionally slow today.. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  22:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * >GWW update page, nothing there yet--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 22:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Bug
If you send your build to chat with the PvP version of the skill in it, the build doesn't show up.--75.36.35.199 22:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually I noticed there was a bug too. I'm also waiting for EW to come back from its grave for PvE. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 00:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

How are we gonna do this?
Now that a lot of skills have two versions, how are we going to separate them? -Mike 01:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * GuildWiki talk:Community Portal  &not; Wizårdbõÿ777  ( talk ) 01:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible Skill Bug
I think there might be a problem with Glyph of Swiftness, because before this update I used to be able to use it with Obsidian Flesh with 16 Earth Magic to make it end near the same time it finished recharging. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 01:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You still need an enchanting mod to keep it up indefinitely. --Macros 01:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah forgot about that lol :D. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 02:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

=(
I almost shit myself before i saw the buff to LoD was PvE-only - 70.15.6.229 03:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha! Well, they HAD to buff it in PvE-only, cus PvE is just sooo much harder than PvP... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 04:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * ') shure roseofkali shure :p pve doesnt get harder anymore then a lvl 20 in pre 81.245.243.161 16:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

One laughing - one crying eye
I am happy that shadow form now lasts longer in PvE - gives the E/A green farmer a better chance than before as compared to the A/E green farmer. Those extra seconds one now has allows for longer runs through mobs, better pulling and also better positioning. On the other hand ... since they now made the fix to Glyph of Concentration permanent I can now call it again Glyph of Consternation as it makes farming interrupt heavy environments (read Raptor Hatchling Cave) exclusive to those professions that can use shadowform or have excellent stances that allow blocking. So we're back to erangers, assassins and elementalists with the broodmother. 79.216.203.35 07:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Mantra of Resolve says hi. --NYC Elite 20:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, as soon as you tell me how to make, say, a Dervish a D/E/Me .....

Tee hee
I was right again! When you go to the Isle of the Nameless, you can experiment with PvE skills. So, tough luck for any spike being tested on the MoD using PvP skills. Hahah, way to go. --- -- (s)talkpage 11:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Shit, you seriously cant take PvP skills into the isle of the nameless? I hardly think anyone would want to go there to test PvE builds out, GJ Anet :/--[[Image:Cobalt6.jpg|50x19px]] - (<font color="Blue">Talk </B>/<font color="Green">Contribs</B> ) 11:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is related to whether your character is PvE or PvP, correct? I went to Nameless using a PvE character and my skills were the PvE versions.  I went to Nameless using a PvP character and those same skills were the PvP versions.  Shadowlance 14:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's only true if you used the (PvP) skills. Whether or not your character is PvE or PvP is irrelevant. --NYC Elite 20:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me break it down for you. If you walk out into Isle of the nameless with a PvE character, your Aegis will cost 10 energy, if you walk out there with a PvP character, your Aegis will cost 15 energy.  Does it make sense now? -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  20:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually no, that doesn't happen. I just went out there with my PVP Monk and LoD is the PVE version, 6 recharge. Discobadger 23:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * At least we can still test PvP builds in scrimmage, if you can find anyone to scrimmage with. 71.254.148.42 23:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Skill icons
I thought GuildWiki doesn't use the skill icons for skill updates like the official wiki does? Should we revert? --Macros 13:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say: have fun getting them out :P We indeed do not use them generally. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 13:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Might be nice using them for once. Just this once. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 13:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Small discussion on it up above too. I think the icons look good.  Shadowlance 14:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The last time they were implemented, one of the admins removed a couple days later... I can't remember who off the top of my head. So basically, they cause no harm, but will most likely be removed eventually anyway. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  16:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a great time to stop playing GW and go play Age of Conan (or anything else)
No, seriously. Get a new rig together and relocate to Age of Conan if you must. Anything but this. They are scraping the very bottom of the barrel, it's obvious. Pretty soon, PvP is going to be like 10 times slower than PvE, because all the PvP skills will be nerfed to all hell while they leave PvE skills alone. They now have an excuse to nerf PvP even more! Great, isn't it!

So yeah, take my advice and go play another game, don't even look back. I've been playing this game for the last 1-1.5 years, over 3K hours total put in, and seeing what's been happening to this game over the last 2 months is too much even for an obsessive player like me. I've logged on maybe 2 or 3 times total during these last 2 months. That alone should tell you remaining players everything you need to know.

So please, if you all have something FUN to do instead of playing this game, I encourage you to stop playing. This is just friendly advice from a long time gamer, take it as you will; IMO, it's just not worth it anymore... In the mean time, I will be going around and encouraging anyone I know who is a fan of GW to stop playing it and to also be more skeptical towards GW2.--Slic 18:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The issue here, as with any game, is NO ONE is ever satisfied with ANY changes. No matter what, every little change that they make will piss someone off somewhere.  People have been complaining about skill changes oriented for PvP making them useless in PvE, so they try this out.  Just remember that you can't make everyone happy, before you go slandering the company. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8  (T / C)  18:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with the MMO "OMGZ they nerfed my favorite part!" syndrome. They really are failing at keeping customers and at maintaining the quality of this game.  Consider the mass exodus when they added loot scaling.  Now consider the other mass exodus when they took away favor from HA.  Also, consider the mass exodus when they nerfed the glad rank (5 wins is NOT the same thing as 10!) and introduced dishonor to RA!  And finally, consider how many more players left during the past few months, especially when they saw the new ./zrank...  It is not a matter of change, it is a matter of knowing when something DOES NOT NEED CHANGE.  I cannot reveal any specifics about which employees at anet are left in charge of what's left of gw, but I will say this.  They released their last expansion for GW, and the game as of now is no longer making any noticeable profit for them.  What do you think happens when an online game ceases to make profit..?--Slic 19:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you think happens when an online game ceases to make profit..? It becomes Diablo 2? lol. -- [[Image:Isk8.png]] User:Isk8 (T / C)  19:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah, we've heard this same "doom and gloom" spiel at least once a month since Guild Wars was released. My response now is the same as it has been since they added AoE scatter - if you don't like the game, you go play something else.  I like the game, so I will keep playing it.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 19:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh my... cut it with this Armageddon bs people. Regardless of what's going on now, but the time GW stops being profitable, it'll still be played a lot, and GW2 will be releasing at the same time, if not have been released BEFORE then. --NYC Elite 20:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would just like to say thanks to those of you who aren't freaking out about this. I am with Ishmael, if u dont like the game stop playing and leave the people who like it to play it. It will be more fun with out you anyway--Bastthegatekeeper 21:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Amen! RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 23:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL. I've been playing for 7349 hours and I absolutely love the fact that they are finally getting around to different versions of skills.  I want to play it even more!  (yes, I have no life)Lothmorg 23:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Even if one doesn't like Guild Wars and wants to quit, I don't see how it follows that the solution is to play Age of Conan. Quizzical 23:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that dishonor in ra was a bad thing? Unless you were one of those people who left before the match began if they didn't have a perfect team... That was one of anets more recent wise choices.--[[Image:AlariSig.png]] 23:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Epic lover of GW I am, I must say that Conan is a very well built game. Either is great. I'm playing mainly Conan right now, but if you'll probably fall in love with Conan too if you get it. --69.133.105.149 03:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * At the risk of heading off topic, I want to agree with Alari. The dishonor system cut down on RA leavers significantly.  And for that I am thankful. [[Image:Diversion.jpg|19px]] <font color="#4056b2">Lazuli  04:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

(Resetting indent)Personally, I'm playing GW for the titles. Once I get my completionist compulsions taken care of, I'll probably stop playing until Guild Wars 2 comes out. From what I've heard, it looks like it's going to a be great game. I'm allergic to paying $200 a year for access to my games, I'd far prefer to spend that on 4 new games or a partial payment toward a video card. --GW-Phydeaux 04:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Come on guys, the update isn't a "nerf PvP to hell and leave PvE alone" thing, it's just to make certain skills that really aren't compatable with both PvP and PvE without being horrible in one and useless in another. I thought everyone was WANTING something like this (see multiple 'OMG they nerf PvE becasue of PvP' discussions in archive). 84.9.236.2 04:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I cba to read through all replies here, but i can say: If you are talking about PvP balance we, gw players, are spoiled in contrary to other games. --82.174.109.26 07:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A lot of games intentionally unbalance PvP. Players like winning to be based on whatever will make it so that they win.  Those with more free time than skill like for winning PvP to be based on how much time you've spent grinding.  Hence, there are games that cater to that sort of people.  Guild Wars is not such a game in PvP.  It wasn't in PvE, either, until ArenaNet changed their basic philosophy on skill versus grinding a couple years after the initial release, and even now, it's still not the mostly grinding-based system that a lot of games have.
 * I recon the problem is that you all think way too much. When you put so much thought into something it becomes twisted. I enjoy reading the game updates good or bad, and I'm happy with their choices since it's their game and not mine.I do like Zrank, though I don't find it easy and I have like...30 points since the title came out. It does encourage me to try other forms of PvP rather than just AB. Plus I've gotten like 3-4 golds in a row from the chest, and because of it my warrior now has a better sword and shield. Even the cream thingy's I like since I'm going for sweet tooth. My advice is be happy and enjoy the game. You wont find another game out there like GW really. It's quite uniqe when you look at it, and if you really have the time to sit here complaining about everything in GW then you either dno't play much or you've done everything you wish to already. In which case feel free to move on, but for me there's lots left to do! And since I live in the UK, you can go ahead and call that my penny, since 1p over here is worth 2 cents in america. Sooo, HA. j/k =P -[[Image:MAL wiki sig.PNG]] 10:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've seen comments like this all the time when someone comes to criticize a change they don't like. "If you don't like it, leave, I'll stay here and enjoy the updates I like". But there's no escaping it. Eventually, you're going to get an update that'll really kill your enjoyment of the game, and as much as you may try to put it in a positive light, it's not going to be the same game you bought however long ago. You say it's their game and not yours, but you paid money to play this game. You paid money for a different version of the game, I should add, one that doesn't have a split between PvP and PvE skills, or any of the other unfavorable changes you might have been around for, so you have as much right as anyone to speak up when they make a decision you don't like. I'm not saying I hate all the changes - Zaishen Rank was an interesting idea, albeit poorly implemented (how hard would it have been to make the title retroactive, based on the faction with Balthazar you already have on your account?). I was still hopeful for GW2. I want it to be good, to make up for their terrible management of GW1 nowadays. But updates like this are really turning me off buying it. Is that a good strategy? Alienating your previous customers so that they won't want to buy your next game? I wouldn't say so. Ephidel 17:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If you don't like this update because finally PvE is fun, go away. We don't care about 1 or 2 less players.--:-) <font color="Orange">GlennThePaladin (Talk,Contrib) 10:11, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Age of Conan is World of Warcraft 1.5 <font color="Purple">Yikey HURRRR 12:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Who would like?
To see our entire "bug" page wiped out in a single update... nothing else has to change, but just removal of bugs... It also would be nice to see anomalies fixed, however this is just in regards to bugs. --68.102.139.94 15:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention some bug can be VERY hard to fix, not as easy as abra kadabra 24.177.102.154 14:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering most of those bugs are very minor/very rare, I think it would be better to leave them alone instead of wasting that much time fixing them[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]]<font color="#4682b4">Entrea  <font color="#4682b4">[Talk]  15:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And screwing something else up in the process... RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 18:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A bug of occasionally this or that happens, without knowing the exact cause, can be very difficult to track down in the code, or even to verify that it exists. Quizzical 19:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

WHAT?? PVP SKILLS SEPERATED FROM PVE SKILLS??
this is sick, cmon, they'll nerf the pvp skills to hell, while the pve'ers are in barbie dreamland! this isnt fair anymore, theyll nerf the para and Rt to hell in pvp of course82.72.233.33 20:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean imba stuff might get changed without PvE whining? Damn, what a shame. Lord of all tyria 20:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * haha, word 24.177.102.154 14:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

they could at least have a BIT of compassion with pvp'ers. after the tournament nerfs were reverted, and this update came they just immediately reverted them back in pvp! well, gj izzy you made me pissed again. he just loves to annoy the pvp'ers, now he can breed his own nerf hell over there.82.72.233.33 20:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if balance annoys you then go ahead and leave, but a lot of those skills were fucked up. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  20:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Now if only they cared about pve skill balance. I find this update rather puzzling, as it's ostensibly to improve pve-skill balance while still balancing things for pvp, but Ursan Blessing completely destroys any argument that they actually care about pve skill balance--and could have been heavily nerfed long ago without affecting pvp.  Quizzical 20:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It sells too many copies. I yearn for the day they nerf it though. [[Image:Zefirsig.jpg|19px]] God Zefir  20:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I still can't believe people are still waiting for them to nerf a skill that gets them money because people buy EotN. If they get money they won't nerf it. Obviously, you guys don't see that and the fact that they need money. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 21:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * But does it on net get them money, or does it cost them future sales from people figuring that they'll make GW2 into just another stupid leveling game? For comparison, if they were to make the game now have a monthly fee, that would, in the short run, get them more money.  In the long run, with fewer people buying boxes, it's far from clear.  Quizzical 22:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Doesn't mean we can't all hate it anyway...--Bastthegatekeeper 22:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hate The [Cape]. Lord of all tyria 22:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

For 3 years PvE'ers have been complaining that their skills get nerfed because of PvP. Now PvP'ers complain that their skills are getting nerfed and "it's not fair" that PvE'ers don't get the same. Sometimes I worry about the human race. --Macros 14:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

If them changing how the skills work bothers you that much, then here is a pro tip: make your own builds already. Juraigamer 16:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If I were the ArenaNet employee responsible for skill balance, I'd have something built into the game to track how commonly used each skill is (perhaps restricting to level 20 characters, to avoid overcounting skills that are merely available at low levels). I'd then often nerf the skills used by the most players, and strengthen those that are essentially never used.  And then people could hate me, too, for making the skills more balanced.  Quizzical 18:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A skill is not unbalanced just because it's used often. Consider Healing Breeze. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 18:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, stop whining. This happened because of you whiners. We had it coming.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 19:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Most equipped? They should nerf Resurrection Signet then! Most used? Nerf Dash!! (source :P) &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 19:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a shame "Get over it, adapt, and move on" isn't an option for more people. Aegbno 19:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

How many more updates will it take for you all to quit? How many updates must you sit through until you see what they have done to a once great game? 10? 5?  Or maybe you will join the exodus the next time your GW client downloads a patch...? Take the hint, move on.--Slic 11:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to defend Anet on this one. PVE skills are in fact, unbalanced, have never been balanced, and cannot be balanced. This is because they are not used against other players. There is no direkt competition, so what could they be balanced against? The Monsters? Even if the whole party is wiped, it rezzes at then nearest rez shrine. The monsters don't get that courtesy. Zero Balance. And why should anyone care? If you dont like a skill such as, say - Ursan Blessing - then don't use it. Easy as that. Nobody will force you to use it and other players are not using it against you. Why the complaints? Do you really feel the need to force other players to do what you want them to do? Is that what this is about? Taking other peoples freedoms away from them? Because that's exactly what this seems to be. If you feel that way, you're wrong. <font color="Navy">Havoc   (Talk|Contribs) 12:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * They split the skills so that people would hopefully stop using Ursan Blessing so much for just regular PvE and only use it for other things like DoA, Kanaxi, and the Deep. Also because of some PvE people that whined right to them. Maybe it was also for people to be able to farm with some old skills that were helpful. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 12:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

About time, as a primarily PVEer, I got really sick of having MY game messed up--let the PVPers get their own nerfs for a change! GW-Susan 17:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If they want to make players stop observing that Ursan Blessing is ridiculously overpowered, the only solution to that is to heavily nerf it so that it is no longer ridiculously overpowered. With Ursan Blessing untouched, most skill changes (including this one) are pretty inert in terms of their effect on pve skill balance.
 * As for Havoc's "if you don't like [it]... then don't use it" line, how about the duping bug from last fall? Should they have left that in and just told people, if you don't like it, don't use it, but let the people who do like it use it?  By your logic, the answer is yes; that's less game-breaking than Ursan Blessing is.  Quizzical 19:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What's the point of nerfing Ursan Blessing if it is only used for HM and we all know HM hates everything else, that is the reason why Ursan Blessing is used so much because so many people want to do HM. Obviously you haven't noticed people don't use it for NM and solo farming. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 19:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but having 20 or 30 stacks of Armbraces because you duped them is FAR more broken than Ursan, especially since it's actually a BUG. How long would it take for you to get those with Ursan? A couple years? With the duping? Half an hour? --Gimmethegepgun 19:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually duping was actually more like 5-10 minutes I think but hey that is the truth. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 19:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's where you're so wrong. Physical smashway > HM, and even faster than Ursan. But, people are too incompetent to understand. Heck, let's use Searing Floomes against Destroyers! It's big domage! *Oot* Also, Ursan is even used in NM. No regular PvE'er with EotN can make a functional build anymore... --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage 19:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually I find Ursan just a wee bit dumb in NM. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 19:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll bite...physical smashway whats that ?-- [[Image:merty_sign.gif]]-- ( talk ) 19:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hard physical damage from Warriors, Dervishes, Assassins, Rangers, and Paragons. Killing the way it was meant to be. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 19:57, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "What's the point of nerfing Ursan Blessing if it is only used for HM and we all know HM hates everything else" Perhaps someone who can't do hard mode without ursan should learn how to play the game?  I have 19 guardian titles without using any pve-only skills except sunspear skills (and not linked to a secondary profession), with usually no ursans at all in my party, and never more than one.
 * Would being able to dupe 20 stacks of armbraces be horrendously unbalanced if you were the only one that could do it? Sure.  But not if everyone else could do it, too, as then you wouldn't be able to sell all those stacks of armbraces for a meaningful price, and wouldn't be able to beat a single mission that you can't beat now.  Ursanway, on the other hand, does let people clear a lot of content without having to learn how to play.  Quizzical 20:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how the Ursan/Dupe comparison is valid, since duping was a glitch that was never meant to be put into the game. Are you saying they never meant to put Ursan in the game? --Macros 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well one thing to respond to Quizzical is that I hardly use Ursan ever since you know I can make my ranger a build simple w/o it. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="red">Hel <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="yellow">llb <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="green">rin <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="black">ger 20:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)