Talk:Alliance Battle/archive1

Some things I've found useful: Aegis and heal party are excellent, it costs a fraction of using it indivdually, fertile season and symbiosis, put fertile season behind your battle line and see who has more enchantments, then make a decision whether to use symbiosis, put predatory season behind their lines, primal echos rocks on elite shrine things, disease and EoE are great too. Things that affect everything are better than spells targeting one person. well of suffering and traps on the points you own are a great plan. This is great :D 19:42, 26 March 2006 (CST)


 * I want to say that whoever first suggested EoE as an idea for these battles is.. Well.. Not a very smart person. Now all alliance battles have EoE + Fertile Season + Symbiosis + Whatever, even Greater Conflagration for God's sake! The funniest thing is.. If your team happens to be near it's shrine when EoE triggers off.. Then Kablooey! Everyone dies (your team and theirs) and then you all get rezzed right next to EoE.. Die.. Res.. Die.. Res.. Die.. With no apparent end in sight. Meanwhile.. If the other team had taken more control points than you, then you lose.. Badly. This has happened every time I went to an Alliance Battle on Saturday. Each time we won because the opposing team (3 out of 3 times) spammed EoE and kept killing themsleves (and us) over and over. The spirit spammers are simply retarded. --Karlos 06:54, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * A lot of this stuff has already changed over the course of the weekend. Friday, I could put up Preservation or Recuperation spirits, and no one touched them.  They are often the first thing the enemy targets now, in Random Arena.  The Alliance battles have gotten a lot better as the day has gone on (Saturday and Sunday), as people figured stuff out.  I'm pretty sure EoE won't be the standard way to play Alliance Battles for long (I don't see much of them, though some). --JoDiamonds 08:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)

I spent all weekend with 6 spirit skillbar.. i may have started that =p 14:43, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * Alliance battles were fun. I guess the popularity of EoE came right after the first person figured out that MMing would be nice and dominated. So the next person figured that EoE would be a great counter. My personal favorite for this weekend was Barrage however. Apart from having a dragon following me around obviously ;-) --Xeeron 17:39, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * EoE is a way of turning the tide. The best use for is no doubt in defense of a shrine that belongs to you already. Plant the EoE if you stand against a larger number of enemies and see that you get as many of them down as possible. When they die along with you, you will gain more points for the kills than they will and you will keep the shrine. We won quite some times because of defending while under EoE. --Nilles 21:27, 31 March 2006 (CST)

Third alliance battle map?
From the layout of the maps and the borderline, it seems like there are 3 alliance battle maps: Etnaran keys (Luxon on defense), Saltspray beach (draw) and one more (Kurzicks on defense). Unfortunatly, Luxons were on the defense most of the weekend, so whenever I checked, it was one of the above maps. Did anyone see or know of the third map? --Xeeron 19:05, 27 March 2006 (CST)
 * I don't know about the point you raise, but this Luxon/Luxons and Kurzick/Kurzicks thing is bothering me. Luxon is the name of the faction, right? Shouldn't the name for a group of them also be Luxon, then? As in: "the Luxon were mostly on defence" as opposed to "the Luxons were mostly on defence"? Otherwise the faction would be called the Luxons. And the same with Kurzick. It's really not very important, but I just needed to get it off my chest.


 * As for the alliance battles.. it was pretty good fun, actually. AoE spells ruled the day, with an Earthquake/Aftershock/Eruption earth warder being pretty effective. Playing monk in the battles wasn't fun, however, as the only way to ensure you wouldn't be the only one on your team would be to take three others in with you :P. Shandy 20:17, 27 March 2006 (CST)


 * The faction is Luxon. As in the Luxon Nation, were they a nation.  However, the people from there are Luxons, in the same way that people from Boston are Bostonians.  It would be right to say, "The Luxon nation was on defense" or that "The Bostonians were wrecking everyone", since both were true.  ;)
 * I didn't mind the lack of Monks that much, because they are less necessary when everyone rezzes relatively quickly without DP. They are obviously still useful, but not the same as either PvE or any PvP.  It's a brave new world!
 * In short, both are right.
 * --JoDiamonds 05:46, 28 March 2006 (CST)
 * I bet there are 5 maps. One in the middle (Saltspray Beach). Two just into the other side (Etnaran Keys/X). And two that are far into the other side (X/X). Time will tell. :P --Ravious 05:59, 28 March 2006 (CST)

There were at least 3. But you only saw 2 during most of the weekend. When I got down to the bottom areas of the Luxon side 2 of the towns were blue and the line moved twice to the most diagonal spot you saw most often during the weekend where Luxons controlled 11 total cities and Kurzicks controlled 12 (this happened early friday morning). I was, unfortunately, more into the PvE aspects of the game since I had already explored the PvP during the PvP weekend so I never got a chance to see the third. Really wish this event had been longer, there was much I still wanted to do. | Chuiu 06:23, 28 March 2006 (CST)
 * Yes, there are almost certainly at least three. There could be 30, for all we know, though I doubt it's that high.  This was a little taste, a preview, a general beta.  I'd be surprised if there were less than five, and wouldn't be surprised if there were as many as nine, maybe more. --JoDiamonds 07:00, 28 March 2006 (CST)

Points
The time is 7 seconds. I recorded alliance battle matches on July 16, 2006 using FRAPS to confirm the seconds.

There was a little confusion about points... I was under the impression that you only scored points for capturing and holding control points ("flags") on the map, but one of my buddies swears up and down that you get points for killing the enemy. I think he's full of crap but I thought I'd ask here and see if anyone could confirm or deny. I was so busy running around and trying to stay alive and capture points that I never really kept an eye on the score when I was fighting. Cheers Mrwiz 04:50, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * I believe you do get points for killing enemies. Several times when I was playing, one side or the other had no shrines at all, yet still gained points.  Unless there's yet another way to get points, I assume it was because of kills.  --JoDiamonds 05:48, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * I can definitely confirm that you do gain points from a kill. At one point, even though my side controlled all control points, the other side still gained a point by killing someone.
 * As a side note, the overloading of the word "points" makes it hard to unambiguously discuss alliance battles. The goal is to hold all points in order to gain points, since if you win, you get more points. --adeyke 11:08, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Better split this from my rant: You definitly get points for killing, that is you get 1 point for each enemy killed. Easiest to check when one team was boxed in and the other had people suicide on the Base Defender (so to be totally correct: You get 1 point for each dead human enemy, even if you did not kill him yourself). --Xeeron 17:40, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Rant: ARGH. Yes! The one thing that ANet is horrible about is NAMEING things. There is Tyria the continent, on tyria the world. Also on Tyria (the world) is Cantha the continent, including Cantha the nation. In Cantha (the nation) 2 factions fight for control in the expansion called factions, where people struggle to get faction with the factions of factions (the expansion). That is unless they are busy getting faction (with Balthazar). To get faction (with the factions) you have to hold control points in order to get points. Of course you also want your character to get attribute points, fame and rank. Like your character, your alliance (not the faction) also wants rank, gained by spending faction for the alliance. Your guild as well would like to gain rank, but for this you need guild rating. So all is very simple as you see. Now only get used to spirits and spirits, who are different, but definitly not ghosts and the ton of stuff I forgot now and you are set for Arena Nets name chaos. --Xeeron 17:40, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Faction, faction and factions. Pretty confusing over Vent/TS :P 148.177.129.213 17:47, 28 March 2006 (CST)


 * Lol, yes. I decided to refer to faction points as bf, kf and lf standing for Balthazar faction, Kurzick faction and Luxon facion. --Nilles 21:33, 31 March 2006 (CST)


 * FWIW, I believe some of the in-game messages actually referred to "control points" as shrines sometimes (so I try to use that word exclusively, even though the tutorial called them control points, iirc). --JoDiamonds 04:44, 29 March 2006 (CST)

Post-FPE
Since Alliance Battles are no longer fought in groups of 12 but rather in 3 groups of 4, mass group heals, protection and so on are no longer effective. --Nilles 11:31, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

Is there any other additional information regarding post-FPE alliance battles? It seems that no one is able to provide information regarding how it works for Factions. I'm not even quite certain how to get to them. Any insight? 21:41, 8 May 2006 (PST)
 * Your guild leader has to get far enough in PvE to join one side or the other. I guess you might be able to guest with another guild that's already joined a side.  (Also, only sign with four tildes, not five.) --68.142.13.105 23:48, 8 May 2006 (CDT)

Where are they? How do you get there?
This article needs to describe how and under what circumstances you access the alliance battles. I get there from my guild hall, but aren't there NPCs in the world? Someone just asked me in the game and I have no idea. Can you only go from your guild hall? What are the requirements for this?


 * Done. --65.95.88.20 22:21, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

Is there anyway to get there without GWF? Cheers12 23:01, 20 June 2006 (CDT)


 * No. Alliance Battles are a unique feature of GWF. --Nilles 04:50, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

Map selection
Anyone else hate the map selection system? For one thing, because the Luxons either suck or attract a different type of player, they always seem to be losing slightly, meaning the most played map is Etnaran Keys, which is both boring and immensely unfair when facing a luxon team that actually know a little about how to play the game. I've been playin a lot of 12v12 lately, and yet I've only ever played 2 of the 5 different maps. A waste of map design time if you ask me, and quickly tedious. Even the RA's have more variation. -- Bishop [ rap|con ] 11:26, 10 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Interesting. 2 weeks ago, the Luxons were owning the Kurzicks. Durheim Archives were theirs half the time. The Kurzicks have made a nice push lately, but I have been to Grenz' more than any other map. (I have not tried AB in over a week). --Karlos 02:59, 11 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Just played a string of matches tonight. Exactly same story as before: On Saltspray (even map), Kurz win 9 out of 10. As soon as the map switches to the Keys (lux advantage), Luxons win 9 out of 10. It's kinda silly. -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 15:42, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, overall there seems to be a huge imbalance between Kurzick and Luxon participation. I have shared Bishop's experience. But after all, there is nothing we can do about it, don't we? --Nilles 17:01, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * It's true there's nothing we can do about it, besides voice opinions here and on the guru. We know ANet read both. (btw, I'm amazed how big a difference the maps make, it's like someone casts Summon Nooblars on the Kurzicks whenever the map changes to the Keys. I wonder if it's because most of the skilled players simply log off or go farm until it's back to Seaspray.) -- [[Image:Bishop_icon2.png]] Bishop [ rap|con ] 18:35, 18 June 2006 (CDT)

I think there are more Kurzicks overall than Luxons. Judging by Ft.Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, I always find more Kurzicks than Luxons. It's about 1.5 to 1 and sometimes 2 to 1. --Karlos 19:38, 18 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Not that this should necessarily affect who wins more often. If anything, it would mean that the smaller group of players would get more experience playing (because they aren't sitting around waiting for opponents as much, like the larger group).  But I'd agree that there are more Kurzicks than Luxons. --JoDiamonds 16:00, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

White Towel and Knockout
The page currently says "a white towel winning situation is if the entire opposing party leaves. A knockout winning condition is if one side can hold all 7 control points for 60 consecutive seconds.". I have never heard of white towel or knockout being used within Guild Wars as official terms in this way. If these are slang people really use, let's put them on slang pages, but if no one else has ever heard of them, let's just remove them. Of course, if I'm just uninformed, someone let me know where these terms show up in game. --JoDiamonds 16:03, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * If you hold all the points for 60 secs, thats correct, but those terms aren't used anywhere unless the kurzick commandent says them in his explanation, and I find that unlikely &mdash; Skuld  16:16, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I have played many Alliance Battles and have never heard these terms used in relation to Guild Wars.--&mdash; xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 16:30, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * *Sigh* You guys have been cocooned in your GW personas for too long. White towel and knockout are general sports expressions. They come from boxing. :) If you want me to put links to the wikipedia expressions, I can do that, but don't take them out to put in a long two lines explanation of what they mean. White towel means the other side has surrendered and knockout means... well.. you knocked the other guy out before the end of 15 rounds. --Karlos 16:45, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I knew that! &mdash; Skuld  16:46, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I know the terms, which come from more than just boxing (though knockout clearly is mostly known from boxing). As stated, my issue is the way they are currently is as if they are official GuildWars terminology.  I have no problem using general terms when they help, but I think they are more of a hindrance in this case, as I doubt most people know the terms well enough or think of them generally enough.  I would absolutely prefer two long lines of explanation, personally, but it's up for debate.  --JoDiamonds 17:23, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I think both of these terms are understood by the majority, but unless it's a term readily used in game, I don't think it should be used as an official term and added to the slang pages. If we start adding terms only because someone has used them as a description, it won't be long before we'll be adding stuff like 'mutiny' for a player who enters an alliance battle and stands there just to farm faction.--&mdash;  xis10al  [[Image:Xis10al_sig_icon.jpg]] 18:04, 19 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Hah! I thought Italicizing them was enough of an indication that these are not in-game terms. Since when do we italicize in-game terms? I prefer italics to quotes any time, so that's why I used italics. --Karlos 18:39, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

Neutral
pretty sure there is no neutral, Luxon isn't meant to have Harvest Temple by default. Keys is Luxon, Saltspray is Kurzick makes more sense to me


 * Nope, Harvest Temple is Luxon. Check the exclusive area there. It has a Luxon Sentry. --Karlos 21:41, 22 June 2006 (CDT)


 * Did you check while the Luxons or the Kurzicks held the outpost? --Xeeron 07:00, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
 * The Harvest Temple is near the edge of the forest and definitely in the Jade Sea. I think it's pretty much designed to be an edge, but it is surrounded by Jade Sea.  Additionally, it's pretty clear (from playing multiple maps) that Saltspray is the neutral map. --JoDiamonds 09:04, 23 June 2006 (CDT)


 * I believe it goes off which side most recently won enough battles at Saltspray, making the temple the only area that does not have a "default" side controlling it. 19:45, 28 June 2006 (GMT)


 * I listed it as Luxon after I visited it while it was under Kurzick control and found the exclusive area still guarded by "Luxon Sentries." Here, is this proof enough for you?
 * [[image:Harvest_Temple_Luxon.jpg]]
 * Not to mention the fact that it completes the list of 9 outposts in the Luxon side and that Unwaking Waters (Explorable) has Luxon Chests. --Karlos 04:13, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Reward Screenshot
I changed the Reward section back to "minimum". For details please see the screenshot(thumbnail) on the right. ~ Nilles (chat) 15:05, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

5 maps?
Are we sure there's only 5 maps? Or is that the one's we've seen because i'm fairly certain there's at least 2 more before the capital cities (one on each side)
 * Proof plz, im pretty sure there isn't &mdash; Skuld  16:28, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

Your right, it doesnt make sense that they will be only 5 maps else if every 2 cities the map changes. I wonder how will be a battle in the capital :), though the chances it will ever pass Grenz Frontier/Etnaran Keys is pretty much small

--Ofer1992 06:36, 15 July 2006 (CDT)
 * Momentum Bonus. By the way, does anyone have info on this? &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:42, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlefield Maps notes
"It is possible to come out of a battle and find the place empty. This means that the border has shifted (as a result of the most recent battle) and that players waiting for a game are in another place. To find them, simply return to the guild hall and re-enter the battle again."

Is this still true? The last couple of weeks I've done alot of ABs, I noticed that whenever the map changed (either when I was idling in the AB waiting area or just coming out of an AB match) that I was always in the new area. I've never entered back into an empty one when coming out of a match (unless I ended up in a newly opened District 2 to cope with demand). In fact, when the map does change your party gets split up and you have to rejoin one. (finally got one of those new fangled account thingy-ma-bobs arual 19:23, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

Once i shifted a guild from kurzick to luxon and my necro remained in the kurzick ab outpost. I could use him to fight against the luxon even though my guild was luxon. --Ofer1992 07:30, 21 July 2006 (CDT)


 * As far as my experience goes: What happens is the game does not move you to the new map until everyone is loaded. If the party leader loads and immediately clicks join before everyone else is ready, you are not teleported to the next map: instead the game just counts down forever, "No opposing players joined" etc. This can be fixed by simply changing to another district. However you will lose your party when you are teled to the next map. --MasterPatricko 04:34, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

in line
it seems to be harder and harder to get into AB, esp around peak time pacific. does anyone know why? is this just on the kurzick side, or are the luxons seeing this too? --Honorable Sarah 23:26, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

After August 11, 2006 Update - Automatically resed?
Now that you are apparently automatically resed after dying due to the August 11, 2006 update, res skills are no completely worthless to bring, and should be mentioned as such. However, I am also concerned about how this affects reserection orb shrines, which now seem to have no purpose since the orbs apparently do nothing now (since the players will be resed by the shrines first).
 * possible this is temporary (weekend event?) or bugged? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:34, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
 * It was bugged, but so much fun. I admit, I spawn-camped, and had a field-day chasing minion-less MMs around. And I laughed when I heard people complain about IWAY no longer working - as if IWAY was a good choice in the first place! I'll always treasure the memories. --Black Ark 11:43, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Big Push..
The Kurzicks have pushed VERY deep into Luxon lands since last night. As of now, we hold Bai Paasu Reach. We're still fighting in Kaanai Canyon. --Karlos 14:43, 15 August 2006 (CDT) Linkfix edit. --Rainith 14:58, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * point of order, the weapon and armor crafters in levitan pits will not speak to kurzick players, even if the kurzicks own the town. pity too, i'd like to have some kurzick armor made from jadite. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:02, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * So what about the merchants? Do they stock Kurzick Keys instead of Luxon ones then or what?  --Rainith 15:21, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * they still stock luxon keys, but they talk to kurzicks players and blow off luxons players (except the above mentioned crafters, who still only talk to the luxon). --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 15:27, 15 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Clarification, it is ONLY the weapon guy and the armor guy. The other vendors (merchant and skills guy) deal with you. My guess is that those two are bugged. i.e. ANet forgot to program them to switch like other vendors. And of course the merchant sells Luxon keys, it's the same merchant. --Karlos 15:29, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I had to log in and see that for myself. Looks like I am back to ABing instead of collecting greens. My poor, poor Luxons. Cap, cap, cap :P -Gares 15:57, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * today is a good day to be a treehugger ;) --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:06, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * I had a thought (and I'm obviously not the first to probably think this yadda yadda yadda)... obviously when Kurzicks win enough AB's the border/map gets pushed back; but when on the furthest back of the Luxon maps (the Canyon one) the next step of Kurzicks winning only takes a town (in order of required faction to own) and the AB map stays the same. This would explain why the border keeps moving back... Kurzicks keep winning on the deepest Luxon terratory. The strange thing is that I hear news of alliance teams winning all the time yet we seem to get pushed further back... I'm in one of the biggest Luxon alliances so I'd like to have thought the actions of fellow AB'ers would have made a difference. I wouldn't have thought Kurzicks could take the Leviathon Pits armourer... he makes our 15k stuff^^ --arual 16:16, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * you have to realize that there are literally hundreds of alliance battles over the two hour frontier period. your alliance wins one, and three other luxon alliances lose, it's a net -2 for the luxon side. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 16:28, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Yes, but after all this time on neutral ground, swaying back and forth around Unwaking Waters, for it to drop right back to near the last town is pretty unlikely - Invinci Steve, 00:22, 16 August 2006 (GMT)
 * didn't Anet just implement a new system of momentum bonuses? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 18:26, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Dunno, was there an update for that? Personally I just think they tweaked something and either accidentally modified the AB stuff inadvertantly or didnt realise the full repercusions within the working game. arual 05:18, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Another question, The Kurzick Merchants that are/were in the Jade Sea explorable areas (you know, hanging around the rez shrines), did they carry Luxon Keys? If so we probably need to update their page to account for that. Also if the discount merchants in the towns sold them, we should do the same there. --Rainith 11:14, 16 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Answered my own question, they still have the keys that are named after their own faction, Kurzick Merchants carry Kurzick keys, even in Luxon areas, and vice versa. --Rainith 20:29, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Desperate for Answers!
If you ask me how can a Kurzick guild own an outpost that is currently holded by a Luxon guild, I would say I don't know, it seems that the answer is running from me and it is complex enough that I can't understand someone if I ask in game, the question is simple:

Guild A is Kurzick and its alliance is worth 3 Millions Kurzick factions. That guild wants to conquer new territory and see another outpost, owned by guild B and guild B is worth 2 Millions. Scenario: Guild A worths more than guild B in terms of factions, but what does AB have to do with this? Can guild A conquer that outpost owned by guild B no matter what happens in AB? (AB= Alliance Battle).

PS: I always thought that guild leader just deliver the factions to the foreign outpost... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.98.85.123 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:06, 16 August 2006 (CDT).
 * alliance battles determine the border and what towns are on which side, and it changes every two hours according to the AB results. Alliances are granted towns in order of highest faction. if the border changes and a 12th town is added to the kurzick side, then the 12th highest kurzick alliance is granted that town.--Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 00:09, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

Ty for your answer, is more clear to me now. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.98.85.123 (talk &bull; contribs) 00:32, 16 August 2006 (CDT).


 * Funny, if Kurzicks own Cavalon, it woul dbe owne dby some weak 2 million faction alliance. :) --Karlos 00:34, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
 * makes 10 hours a day faction farming for cavalon or HzH seem a bit... overrated, huh? --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 11:36, 16 August 2006 (CDT)