Talk:Defy Pain

Is it really usefull to keep the 17 to 19 strength values with "N/A" associated with them since I believe it is impossible to reach such strength values ? I would rather delete them, the article would be clearer. And I think the same goes for all skill-related articles. But that is just my humble opinion. --Funky Jah 10:48, 25 November 2006 (CST)
 * 12+3+1 plus glyph of elemental power/awaken the blood + +1 shield/focus. It's possible to have them on blood, curses and elemental. (also most caster stuff can be pushed to 17 with 12+3+1 +1 shield/focus) 23:05, 22 February 2006 (CST)

Shield's have +1 20%'s and the res shrines give +1 to all attributes blessings, so 17 is easy to get, and 18 is possible, and as told above, glyph elem pow/atb and a +1 from offhand and +1 from shrines.. 20! --Angelo

Anyone else think this skill is still useless, even with the March 2nd buff? 69.124.143.230 15:28, 3 March 2006 (CST)
 * No, because I have and do use it.. 15:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)
 * it doesn't hurt that it's instant, can't be interrupted or stripped, is generally maintainable (unlike Endure Pain) and provides some extra armor - all nice for tanking. --Falseprophet 15:01, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * For what could this skill possibly be worth a potential Elite slot? Care to share your build?  69.124.143.230 03:25, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Not mine, got it off guildwarsguru 01:27, 6 March 2006 (CST)
 * it's even more powerful after the 2/3 update, ripostes do more damage and liv vic heals for more ;p 01:29, 6 March 2006 (CST)
 * That's don't feel no pain's Hydra farming build, right? Defy Pain is great in it, since you can usually keep it up at all times. --chrislee149 01:33, 6 March 2006 (CST)
 * thats his name, yeh and you can have loads of superior runes on ^^ 02:33, 6 March 2006 (CST)


 * Heres what I use, I call it the "Super Tank", which can be used to great effect with either a Monk, Necro, or Rit secondary.


 * Of course, you can replace Sever Artery/Gash w/ any other good War combo, and the optional slot can be filled with any max health buffs like Demonic Flesh or Vital Weapon. I use it a lot, its really good for tankin' it out.  --RavynousHunter 18:50, 06 August 2007 (CST)


 * Problem is that more hp = getting less aggro. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 06:00, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

RA build I use Important Equipment - Plus 20 elemental armor (reqs. 13 strength) in every armor piece. (Personal Choice) Fully specc'd in Axe Mastery and Strength.Don't worry about having less health, with this build you will see a lot of zero's and usually outlast your allies (unless they are smarter than your average RA player). An elemental axe or if you'd rather a sundering axe.


 * Replace Sprint with Enraging Charge or dash, however sprint is spammable
 * Replace executioner's strike with Agonizing Chop, Axe Twist or a rez signet if you feel it has too high of a adren req.
 * Replace Bull's Strike with protector's strike if you want the extra 40 damage (not worth it imo)
 * Use Lion's Comfort for the adren required for defy pain and a light heal.
 * Spam Power attack or save it for a finishing spike
 * You can get Dismember and Axe Rake in on an opponent before they arise from bull strike (no insignia)

Pros - Defy Pain means less time spent healing, while allowing plenty of damage to be done Cons - Anything that lessens your chances of hitting. People yelling at you for using defy pain.

Feedback aside from flaming would be appreciated as this has worked lovely for me in both RA and AB (better and with less flaming in ab).74.36.255.57 06:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)Sharpie

related skills related?
Are all these skills that related? I cant go over them atm because im doing something else but could someone else have a look. Xeon 21:55, 10 December 2006 (CST)
 * Well, they all boost your total hp except "Watch Yourself!", which is like Defy Pain in that it's an adrenal armor boost. I agree with Skuld's tweak, which was to remove all but the warrior ones. Endure Pain and Signet of Stamina are obviously related, and "Watch Yourself!" is pretty close, too. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 21:57, 10 December 2006 (CST)

it has the coolest icon at least:P

A chunk of his torso is missing, ouch. The Hobo 22:04, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The icon is reminiscent of The Fellowship of the Ring movie, heheh.--Mafaraxas 04:14, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

Trivia
I think it looks like Boromir in his last scene in the Lord of the Rings books/movies. With all the arrows sticking out of him. Also, the skills sounds alot like what he did. Thoughts?72.75.10.75 05:52, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure, but boromir didn't "Defy Pain" he died very quick when the arrows shot in his back/belly. &mdash; Shady Guy  [[Image:shadyguysig.gif|19px]] 07:10, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Very weak link. --Ufelder 07:21, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * If I remember the movie right, he killed all the orcs, which includes the guy shooting arrows into him, and only died after Aragorn found him. Meh, it's been a long time since I've seen LotD, but it's the first thing that popped into my head.71.252.98.132 12:15, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Either way it's a pretty big stretch. If we're going to be nitpicky about it, Boromir only had three arrows in him, and the Defy Pain skill icon appears to have five at first glance.  If I recall, Boromir also suffered no sword wounds, contrary to what appears (to me) to be a rapidly falling sword in the Defy Pain icon.  This would also be the first LotR reference in Guild Wars, if I am not mistaken, but I'm less sure on that point.  [[Image:GDSig.JPG]] 13:15, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Okay, whatever. Just an idea. Also, I always thought that was his sword, and he was sort of waving it above his head, like "Rawr!" you can't stop me! But, I'm open to new ideas. :P 72.75.41.3 17:52, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow. I should have read the section above me. "The icon is reminiscent of the Fellowship of the Ring move. Well, one person agrees with me! 72.75.41.3 17:54, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I always thought the sword was the user's sword (the guy defying pain), not an enemy sword. Still, I didn't notice the chunk of flesh he is missing.  Maybe he got drunk one night and woke up in a ice bath with a note.  StatMan 21:39, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

How is this skill even remotely like lord of the rings,he's not falling into a volcano he's standing up and shouting,i don't see how this relates to lotd.

It's not a volcano. Its the background for warriors. different classes have different background schemes. Assassin have a dark or purple background. Rangers have green schemes. Monks have a soothing blue color behind skills. To be frank, I think the guy is hit multiple times while thinking why is the monk not healing him. Flechette 01:10, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

I said it wasn't a volcano,and i have no idea why people think think its related to lord of the rings,just because boromir got shot down by orc arrows doesnt mean that every skill icon with a dude with arrows in him means it relates to boromir.

Heroes
Heroes will never, EVER use this. Not even if they're beaten to death, they will not willingly use this skill - (snō hwīt tăn)  [sic]  02:07, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Heroes DO use it!
This screenshot shows that heroes WILL use this skill when they think they need to, even if they're almost beaten to death before. (Note that my own cursor hovers over Signet of Devotion!) Deny Pain, hero activated it himself (Good boy, Koss, good boy!) -AikoN- 84.27.153.226 17:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That can easily be fake by telling him to use that skill before he has enough adrenaline. I guess the only way to know the truth is to test it yourself 77.248.246.63 17:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Late to the party, but... Koss isn't affected by Defy Pain on that screenshot, however, he has used it. Lol delay? --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  10:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * (even later to the fun), I beg to differ. There is no indication that Koss ever even used it. Imho, the skill is dark because he doesn't have enough adrenaline. My experience is the same as the other thread: Heroes never use this. It's a bug and a waste of an elite. 76.30.79.54 15:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. While they won't use it as it ought to properly be used (e.g. maintain at all times), they know to use it when they are in danger at the very least. During The Troubled Keeper, I had Jora tank on one side against hordes of Torment demons; the only support she had was random healing from Forgotten Sages, and Lion's Comfort. Without Defy Pain being active there was no way she would have lived for long. I also had her status window open and saw her use it sometimes. (Obviously as the waves got harder, I'd start to micro it myself to keep it up, though.)
 * If you want me to get screenshots showing Heroes will use this sometime, I can do that... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 17:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ (lol). I believe you, but you must have had a fluke experience. I just went to do the bonus of The Wilds. With Tahlkora and Alesia healing, Koss was decimated by the lowly centaurs, and never once used the skill. Okay, only Alesia really healed, 'cause Tahlkora did a Leeroy and got herself into trouble (had her on Guard). The only way for him to survive was to micro-manage it. Later, with Endure Pain, he actually used it on a regular basis. Sadly, no extra armor, though.
 * Bottomline, I hate micromanaging. Therefore, it's a bug! Welcome to my lazy bum world ;p
 * 76.30.79.54 17:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Tried it, heroes do use the skill themselves SkûlBlaka 15:34, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

update
Add Stoneflesh Aura and Shielding Hands for more fun. (T/C) 03:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Better than Ursan now? Rebirthofdragon 03:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I could easily see this being the next ursan since it neglects so much damage, and it allows you to bring other skills that can actually make things go smoother, like conditions and you can even self heal if needed...
 * -10 damage isn't that great, but with the "nerf" of ursan, this will probably increase survivability of a warrior, so perhaps yes 62.194.247.7 00:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * -10 damage is a ton in addition to that extra 20 armor, also it's WAY more easily maintainable than before --Gimmethegepgun 00:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I kind of like this skill now. Other than back when i was a noob and used it to tank in Rotscale farming. "ZOMG i has 1200 health!!" [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 00:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Everyone knows this skill was always about the extra armor for damage reduction, with the health as just a bonus. Except heroes. They think it's for the health, and don't maintain it AT ALL TIMES like you're supposed to --Gimmethegepgun 00:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * lol -11 damage alows me to tank almost all melee in PvP and PvE... and this may sound wierd but i can solo cap all the shrines except the ele one in ab! This skill is the best! And on another note if you compare what this skill gives you compared to the pre nerf ursan Ursan added +200 health at r10 Defy adds 300+, ursan's armor bonus was 20 and same with defy, and finally defy adds another -10 damage reduction. So in away its like ursan ut you get to keep ur regular skills...
 * As for boosts the advantages this has over ursan would be: 1. about -10 damage reduction extra, 2. about +100hp (although it depends on your actual health, this is asuming you have 600 base health), 3. about 7 free skill slots. Advantages of ursan over this would be: 1. high damage touch skills (thus being unable to "miss" or be "blocked"), 2. AoE KD's, 3. AoE weakness (up for about 25% of the time), 4. AoE damage boost (also up for about 25% of the time). HP is usually not very useful, except for certain cases only the last 1hp counts and the other 500+hp is just a buffer. Although it remains an advantage of this skill over anything else, I wouldn't count on it. Also I doubt if those 7 free skill slots can do enough damage to be on par with the ursans damage and then we aren't even talking about the other advantages ursan gives. I think the only big advantage of this skill is the -10 damage reduction. It is especially great while having high armor and damage is already low, however when opponents hit harder (like high end NM area's, HM or most of the PvP area's) I think this is not much more than a pressure reliever. Therefore I do think this could be a great farming skill, but I also think there are far better skills than this. You say you can tank almost all melee in PvP and PvE, that's great, but I can do the same with a lousy skill like Gladiator's Defense (which also deals damage to these melee). This is a good tanking skill I give you that, but it will probably not replace anything on the good ol' obsidian tanks...62.194.247.7 12:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Gladiator's Defense is removable (Wild Blow) and you can't use IAS stance with it. Also it is not 100% block, and not maintainable. It doesn't even protect you from spells. On the other hand, Defy Pain reduced damage from all sources, gives armor and health boost. It is maintainable, can't be removed and you can use stances with it. Sometimes I use Defy Pain in AB, it's a really fun skill. --Teisei 23:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Holy Wrath
If you first cast Holy Wrath on yourself, and then use Defy Pain, will Holy Wrath deal less damage because the damage given to you is reduced, or will Holy Wrath deal full damage? 82.73.79.77 16:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

holy Wrath calculates damage dealt based on the damage you take, so it will deal less damage when used with defy pain. Aura of Holy Might 15:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

"no tanks in PvP"
k so i herd having ~12 people plus NPCs hammering on a W/E Defy Tank in AB is BS. XC And unlike a Wammo, they can actually be dangerous (!) so plain ignoring isn't always an option. (T/C) 16:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * they can definitly stall me with ma' scythe, cleo (white tiger pet), four luxon warriors, the siege turtle, and a whammo or two in aspenwood. then you have to gank them real bad to get your turtle usable again. Githyan 00:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * what build are you talking about? I'd like to know. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Well defy pain keeps you alive for a good while in pvp (even if your mobbed) of course if you have no good heals you die eventually.
 * to arnout: my build is HaO, Feral agression, RaO, Scavenger strike, Pios assaught, Victorios sweep, rending touch, charm animal. somtimes use banishing strike instead of one of the attacks or rending touch. 12 scythe, 9+1+3 beast, 9+1 expertise. Githyan 12:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I ment the Defy Pain tank build. But your build looks gud. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 19:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Damage Type
'Take less damage' should be clarified in a Notes section. Is it just physical damage, all damgae inflicted by martial weapons, all attack damgae, indirect elemental damage?LLandale 14:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * All damage. Imho, it's redundant to put up a note unless the desc is wrong; in this case, it's not. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  14:40, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Bug?
Some warrior in Jade Quarry was using a Defy build and tanking a shrine pretty much solo and I was monking him up. He was still taking craploads of damage, but WoH never triggered the <50% condition for the additional healing, even when his health bar looked to be as low as 25%. Does the additional health not get factored into the percentage of total health for above or below % effects? Is this a bug, anomaly, or some sort of correct functioning I've overlooked? Also, does this mean your 15^50% inscriptions will grant you the additional damage even below 50% health if you're using Defy Pain? 68.112.253.41 10:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, it's a bug. A lot of times when warriors artificially increase their HP it doesn't update on the party screen or their HP bar. Often it will look like the warrior has 0hp after 1-2 WoH when they have pinged their HP at 300/1000 or whatever. Though a few times that's actually because their HP has dropped to -0 hp after Defy/Endure has ended.-- Ikimono "a rabid grizzly bear" [[Image:Monk-Paragon-icon.png|24px]] 23:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know I am late on this and I apologize. But: It is not a bug per-se. The reason for this is because just like Deep Wound, the health bar will not reflect the additional/loss of health until you have been hit 1 time once Defy Pain has activated/ended. - L ena™ [[Image:User_Lena_Sig.png]] talk 09:04, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Seriously?
 * You apologize when helping someone with a question?
 * I'm even more glad you joined GuildWiki now o.O A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When  Needed  16:26, November 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * Must be some GWW thing ;) On topic: The health bar not updating until damage is taken is, imo, a bug. Even when Defy is maintained, it can bug out a bit, but that's client-server desynchronisation. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  16:45, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * I find that sometimes deep wound doesn't appear properly until I damage them. In other words, it won't update my client if someone else is attacking them and I'm not. --Macros 19:05, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Update
Nerfbat hit this one nice and good for PvP. Been waiting for this :3 Kaze 03:21, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, dead skill (in pvp) is dead. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:41, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * No more Defy/Dolyak/Flail Spearchucker soloing every NPC in FA now. 'Bout time. Kaze [[Image:Smilie_v2_Pikmin_Yellow.gif]] 03:48, June 18, 2010 (UTC)