Talk:Deadly Paradox

impressive on a caster assa--Holylorgor 05:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)--Holylorgor 05:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)ssin (which is possible with some of the new skills) --Midnight08 21:44, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Hidden Caltrops looks fun to combine. --Crazytreeboy 22:27, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Skills, not spells.
 * spells are skills - X 14:12, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Does this have a future in combination with Flourish? Also: First post. Still trying to figure out these tags and stuff. Jinnai
 * does this work with assassin signets too?

You can't recharge disabled skills, as far as I know... Arshay Duskbrow 16:19, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, Flourish would work with this, actually. Disabled just means it's recharging. If it's recharge time is less than 10 seconds, it's reset to 10. If it's more, the skill has no effect.  At least, I'm 90% sure of that. --Crazytreeboy 20:58, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Ok, finally got around to testing (needed flourish). Flourish WILL recharge your attacks, and your attacks will recharge 50% faster afterwards from Deadly Paradox, but they do NOT activate 50% faster.  Maybe cause they have no listed activation time?  --Crazytreeboy 15:00, 25 November 2006 (CST)

I already said this under Deadly Haste, but I'm thinking combining Deadly Haste with Deadly Paradox and all those half range Deadly Arts spells might be quite fun. :) --Morfedel 28 September 2006
 * You won't have the energy for that kind of spam. --Spura 06:57, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
 * You would if you used an Assassin Secondary with an ele or necro, or used Crit Strikes/AP/Mesmer secondary for your energy.
 * Also, has anyone considered this? It affects signets too. Deadly Paradox, Palm Strike, Blinding Powder, Signet of Shadows, Iron Palm? Or use it to spam interrupts and KD skillsLabmonkey 07:38, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

deadly paradox
all things on your skill bar are skills, including spells -there are some things that only trigger on non spell-skills (can't remember name) and spells trigger ss which acts on skills also-morale boosts and level gains recharge all skills


 * Oh, hey. What about Shadow Form? 30 second recharge with up to 25 second duration + arcane echo. --24.4.18.48 17:11, 30 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Nice idea. Dark Escape should work also, except kept up constantly :) 24.96.135.224 13:11, 1 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Dark Escape is a stance and Deadly Paradox is too.


 * However, Deadly Paradox would affect Dark Escape as long as Deadly Paradox was put up first. Just do Deadly Paradox, then immediately afterward Dark Escape. (See Serpent's Quickness on how it quickens its own recharge.)--Ender A 02:59, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * (To clarify, see Talk:Serpent's Quickness.)--Ender A 03:06, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

I'm curious - if Deadly Paradox is up while the next Deadly Paradox is activated, will it halve the 10 second disable for Assassin attack skills?--Ender A 04:41, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * It shouldn't. Recharge reduction doesn't normally reduce disabled duration.  Try a diversion under QZ or serpents quickness to see it. --Crazytreeboy 10:32, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Ah, interesting.--Ender A 22:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)


 * That's what I said above. :P Arshay Duskbrow 04:27, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Since Deadly Paradox is non-elite, you can use it with an elite energy management so you have enough energy for Paradox + Deadly Haste while spamming all throwing dagger spells + Entangling Asp. Finally a skill that makes Deadly Arts assassins worthwile. --Spark 20:59, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Does this skill speed up the recharge time if it is cast after the spell you want recharged? For example, cast FN and then this, will FN still recharge twice as fast? Go4the1 18:12, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No. (And your FN would end, heh.)  --Fyren 01:16, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

With Moebius Strike
This is a stance, so one could possibly activate it while in the middle of using moebius strike, thus recharging all attack skills. Of course, if you have moebius strike, its trivial.
 * Mobius won't activate then &mdash; Skuld 17:05, 11 December 2006 (CST)

well, you would have already activated it, and used deadly paradox mid-strike
 * No. The attack skill isn't complete until the strike actually lands on the target (whether it hits or not). If it is disabled during the strike animation, it will be disabled before it hits and will thus have no effect. Even if it worked like you say, deadly paradox will not reduce the time a skill is disabled. --RolandOfGilead 12:40, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Limitations???
Do limitations of the Serpent's Quickness also apply for this skill? (e.g. the need for to skills to be activated after the Serpent's Quickness is already active on the character in order for the recharge boost to apply )
 * Yes. They're both stances and function the same way. --Ufelder 07:08, 30 December 2006 (CST)

No More Stance Compatibility
Yes, it no longer affects Stances used after it as of the Feb 1 update, according to a "bug" fix. That was one of the coolest things about it; now it's just for specialized caster Assassins. Too bad, some of the stance combinations were pretty creative. I know they nerfed it just because of perma-Dark Escape on a Monk, but they could have done something else like increase the energy cost and/or recharge instead of getting rid of the feature altogether and scrapping the other possible stance combinations. Oh well, maybe they'll rework it in the future. Pax Deorum 17:26, 2 February 2007 (CST)


 * The wierd thing is that it's listed as a bug fix, but Serpent's Quickness has been reducing the recharge time of stances for ages. -- Gordon Ecker 06:06, 7 February 2007 (CST)


 * That's why I said bug in quotes. It isn't a bug fix; if it were, it would only effect Skills like it says in its description.  It's just a specific nerf to the perma-Dark Escape and Shadow of Haste that was possible for casters and runners. Pax Deorum 00:03, 10 February 2007 (CST)

I dont get this skill if it disables ur skills then how does the recarge help if u cant use dem i dnt get it some1 help me plz!! 62.252.32.16 15:18, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * It disables Attack Skills. Assassins have a wide variety of spells, and this is meant to be used with them. Arshay Duskbrow 18:24, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * plus you can still use it to make attack skills recharge faster with enough points(but they don't activate 50% faster-nuts)

The True Deadly Paradox
It's a conspiracy man!

I know it is! Join the club! Or maybe I'm just crazy... The Paintballer (T/C)
 * From observation, I concur that killing your grandfather results in not being able to spell the world beleive.. Wait a second. RadaArashi 16:01, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Lol. I always do that. My fingers hit the second E before I can get to the I.... dang keyboard. [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 10:19, 12 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Or when you go back in time and bang your grand-mother. In essence you are your own grandfather. Though that's technically not a 'deadly' paradox, more a 'incestuous' paradox. Futurama FTW! --Blue.rellik 00:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's grody..... :/ [[Image:PaintballerSig.jpg]] The Paintballer (T/C) 00:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * went back and did the nasty in the past-y! <3--70.58.37.4 04:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Are we sure Heroes won't activate this skill?
I could swear that my Zenmai has used this skill a number of times... But I should mention that I don't equip a weapon on her, and she's got an item spell equipped. I'm not positive though. I'll take a closer look, definitely. cedave  (contributions)  23:34, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You could always use some game recorder during a fight and have her minibar open to see what causes her to use it. --Mafaraxas 20:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I never saw one of mine use it. Such a pity, this skill alone would enable some interesting builds for heroes. Sigh. Hero AI is pretty weird, some things they do better, some worse. REALLY worse :) NightAngel 20:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed my heroes to use it when they were kinda dead (like, 20% hp). It could be cause before I was always activating DP->Feigned, so they kinda memorized that (just like Zhed, always does GoLE->WaHarm->WaMelee on aggro :D) --[[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG]] -- (s)talkpage 20:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Daaaaaang
This skill got pwnt. No more immorti-sin's and a weakening of dagger spammers. Can't say that I'm not happy. The Paintballer (T/C) 00:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * UGH!!! THIS IS THE FIRST TIME ANET NERFS SOMETHING I USED fesorfor4eswp;foi4w3asoitrf43ajweospf;waesji;kflasd *anger boiling*... >_< waaaaaaaaah!!! &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.116.26.179 (contribs).
 * For the sake of balance. 220.101.173.37 02:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well this was a preaty stupid nerf honestly the dagger spammers weren't overpowered, just over used. Now perma Shadow Formers needed a nerf it was stupid to be able to keep that up 100% of the time.....but there had to have been a better way to nerf them, well at least this nerf didnt effect me much for a change >_> 203.25.140.101 02:56, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

nerfing this was useless. now it has no use becouse of Serpent's Quickness, same effect but it lasts twice as long, and doesnt make you lose attacks, wile less maintainable. in truth the only way to make this acceptible is to remove the 10 seconds where your attack skills are recharging. The Observer 70.56.3.224 03:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

This nerf was necessary, first nerf im thanking Anet. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.176.211.246 (contribs).

Honestly, some people. This was one of the most broken skills in the game. QQ moar. --Macros 03:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Good nerf. BTW that was directed at toxis spikers, not immortisins...

You don't see! You don't see at all! This will make running a lot harder! Arrg!! I must test this out, but I can already see that it would affect runners regardless of testing! I knew that nerfing chilblains was too good to be true. GAH! Mustn't lose hope, maybe it's still possible...TESTING!! -Isi


 * Sif use this for running, it provides no speed boost. there are much better stances to use for running
 * all in all though, epic pissed at this. --Peace Out 06:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I actually liked using this skill but not as a assacaster, I used it for my IW mesmer/assasin which I used shadow art skills to complement my survival skills. This is a little annoying but I really hated those assassins so I suppose it was for the best. Flechette 06:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

And I just got my Sin to run to Droknar for the first time... dammit! /grief fR0z3n.S0u1 07:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay, now I have no characters to run Drok's, because I don't know how to make it with Ranger or Monk yet... And my perma-SF in Tombs got nerfed, cool. &mdash; Abedeus  [[Image:Sandstorm.jpg|19px]] 12:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Ha this is funny, dagger spammers still work just slightly less spammy and perma shadow form still works just the timing is more tight. LOL good job anet you just achieved almost nothing! 121.45.221.187 13:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

...Why didn't they just +recharge on DD? 87.66.78.175 14:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it's easier to add Exhaustion to a spell instead of nerfing it's effects, like pre-balance after-nerf Wanderlust and few rit spells ;d &mdash; Abedeus   16:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

A useless dumb nerf
Wow... Invicisins arent much of a threat (except to stupid monsters) and dagger spammers dont hurt much, Earth daggers hurt more...... AT LEAST THESE BUILDS TAKE ACTUAL SKILL! >.> &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.211.166.99 (contribs) 15:13, 17 October 2007.
 * ...what skill was used in spamming dancing daggers and an insane mass of KD? Or did I read the rant incorrectly? Lord of all tyria 20:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * lolololololololol no, teh 55 takez skill, n00b, dat siun build is total n00b1!11!!!!!1 ~  Gold [[Image:DeanIcon.png]] Dean   - 20:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Hahahah 55 and derv 130 takes no skill at all, you sit there while monsters kill themselves. Wow, Big skill. At least invincisin actually has timing involved. The nerf didnt do much anyway, i can still keep Shadowform up 100% and i dont spam daggers anyway. And By skill i ment an actual combo, unlike nukers who just sit their and spam their spells. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.211.166.99 (contribs) 16:23, 17 October 2007.
 * How in the heaven do you still keep it up 100%?

Good timing? It can be done ^_^


 * A gimmick, flavor of the month build takes more talent to execute than an actual build? Interesting hypothesis. ~ [[User:Gold Dean| Gold ]] Dean   - 22:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

i would have to say that any 8 skills put on to a bar would count as an actual build ^_^ not just the ones posted on PvX xD. I do more damage in pve than most invinci sins thank you. 1 on 1 anyone? :3

True, invinci-sins are only a threat to dumb monsters. In PvP, invinci-sins are just annoying to the extent of griefing. Invinci-sins deserved this nerf. 69.21.138.97 11:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But not those using it while lutrunning :( I hate that PvP gotta ruin PvE all the time.
 * This nerf forever killed my FF Running build!Isk8 21:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, PvP screwing PvE again...[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 21:28, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

idk why but looks like pvx hasnt updated this skill yet.Apu of Kwik E 02:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Who cares >.> Shadow form phails anyway. I rarely run into them in PvP, And only use it myself on E/A for farming bosses, wich doesn't need to be kept up forever anyway, I just cancel stance and pop out of there. But as for PvP griefing, not possible. They already changed that so if you manage to kill any of them, you're in the clear. The only way they could win like that is if they were all Shadow Form sins, and were against foes with... No PbAoE skills, no signets, no untyped skills (Expunge Enchantments anyone?) I have to say that I carry Expunge 100% of the time with me on my warrior, and it's QUITE effective against E/D or E/Me tanks, 55hp monks, 130hp dervs, dervs in general, Shadow formers... Anything with 3+ enchantments that piss me off.76.174.13.77 10:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Woot! 15 energy now. Nerf FTW --Foolsauce 00:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh? When did they do that? I checked and you're right. But there aren't even update notes yet --Gimmethegepgun 00:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol. I'm too fast for the update notes. ;) --Foolsauce 00:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup :P
 * Also, strangely GWW had the update notes before guildwars.com did. wth? --Gimmethegepgun 00:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

OWWW
15 energy bye bye DA spikes? hard to maintain now.--Holylorgor 01:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Tips: When you´re using an abbreviation please make a link out of it, so one can see what DA stands for. But yeah, this is quite a nasty energy raise. --Soulflame 02:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Question: doesn't that take out the point in using an abbreviation? Also, how could somebody not know what DA stands for? &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer 04:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The skill was fairly abused by necros and sins, I totaly agree with the nerf.Big Bow 04:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry Soulflame new to wiki stuff ya...but i totally agree, i'd only use this skill to annoy the hell outta Random Arenas. Hehe oh well back to steady stancer! --Holylorgor 05:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The only goddamn problem with assacasters were the ones who KD locked people with Asp and SoJ, yet AGAIN, they nerfed the wrong damn skill, and now non-overpowered builds like the Reaper's Mark/Master of Magic assacaster have to bite it. Izzy is a freaking moron imho. Phalmatticus 20:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Deadly paradox is the problem behind all dagger spam builds. It needs to die. Lord of all tyria 20:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Totally agree! ^^. the point of it (imo) is that u bring SOME Deadly Arts skills, and then when and if you have a rechargin dagger chain, you might unleash some daggers/wires/etc.--Holylorgor 21:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Instead of energy cost, raise the recharge to 30. Then PvE won't bitch so much. -- The Gates Assassin 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Two hard nerfs are too much. I think the best solution to balance it out is: restore the original 50% faster activation/recharge, keep the cost at 15, and maybe even shorten the duration or increase the recharge by a few seconds. - Insidious420 05:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

they nerfed it once, made it fair. nerfed it twice, overdid it. OK for PvP this had to be done. But so many PvE builds have been lost, includeing FFF. if u ask me it sucks. still nothing i can do, besides Anet is trying to ruin the game enough its playable but not too fun, so that people buy Guild Wars 2. At least thats what i've obserbed. The Observer 71.214.196.154 06:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think that FFF was an expected way to earn faction, particularly because it's strongly disbalanced towards Kurzick. So breaking FFF could be a welcome side-effect of the nerf. However, I think the first nerf was much stronger than the second - there are tons of energy management skills, while you cannot maintain some enchantments without the 50% recharge boost (e.g. Shadow Form). I don't thin Anet is trying to ruin the game either - it makes no sense now, long before GW2 is out. It would make no sense afterwards anyway - they can impossibly expect anyone buying GW2 after having "ruined" GW. --Jorx 13:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a conspiracy. ;)  I'm also failing to see how this impacts FFF.  It's not like any of the four runners need to use Shadow Form twice.  --68.187.144.197 10:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

If they'd made it elite it would still have been more usable... Bleh.. If it wasn't for the fact that I was already sick of Assacasters, this might've made me QQ. cedave  (contributions)  05:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I really think they should have made this be something more like: Recharge 8, Energy 5. While you have Deadly Paradox on you your next assassin spell recharges 25%...50% faster. This skill ends after 3...10 seconds or if you attack.

Seriously ANet....thanks for ruining this skill for Assassins while it doesn't affect the caster with so much energy as much >:E You could have tied this to Critical Strikes, correctly nerfing Deadly Arts Spammers and getting Rid of the Assacasters, but noooo, instead you ruin Shadowform Running and a very nice Assassin Skill.-- 16:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Hidden Buff?
Anyone use this after the last update? I'm seeing it affecting cast time and recharge by (probably) 66% rather than 33%. The reason I make the assumption of 66% is because it wouldn't be the first time this happened Deadly Haste is a fine example. Either way, they are casting much faster than before, and definetly better recharges. Zulu Inuoe 23:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC) I jumped the gun a bit, recharge is fine. Cast time is faster than 66% I believe, as you are able to use emotes while casting 1/4 second spells, meaning they cast at around 1/16. Zulu Inuoe 23:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * So, nobody has noticed this yet? I'm surprised. Zulu Inuoe 23:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * My tests: as a Me/A (didnt feel like making a whole new char, i had no fast casting (no runes either))


 * Paradox+Sharpen Daggers (2 sec cast) = quick, stabbing animation
 * Sharpen Daggers alone = pull back, then spin animation
 * Signet of Disenchantment (1 sec cast) = spin animation
 * Which would mean that Paradox+Sharpen Dags is less than one second. --Shadowcrest 00:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And for some reason nobody cares D= Zulu Inuoe 04:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 15e. Interestingly, it's the most expensive stance outside of Mantras. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:24, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 15 e now? Assassins basically have around 34 if you have radiant which means any long chains of spells is shot to hell, including assascasters since they most of the time need to finish off their foes even after their chain. Flechette 05:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Effect on Attack Skills
Deadly Paradox will recharge Assassin attack skills 33% faster if the disable duration finishes before DP ends, but the activation speed is only affected if using attack skills with an actual cast time, like Fox Fangs or Jungle Strike or Exhausting Assault (which unsurprisingly are the only assassin attack skills with a shown cast time). -- IGN: Angelo Silverwolf

Note
"Try using this skill as a cancel stance for Shadow of Haste or Shadow Walk followed up by Feigned Neutrality for a quick escape from danger, and a self heal."..Ok I get the idea, but who actually uses any of those skills unless their spiking, and if their spiking what kind of spike just happens to have 20 energy left over?..I dunno but this seems like a rather silly note to me.
 * For a time I did use this to cancel Shadow Walk after my chain, and follow it up with Signet of Deadly Corruption and Signet of Toxic Shock, as they activate relatively slowly. It's no longer particularly feasible with the immense cost of Paradox. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So........remove the note or leave it? 15 energy for a cancel stance seems really stupid imo.
 * Ah, sorry. I would say remove it. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)