Talk:Leadership

the profesion page lists this as max 1/3 ranks while its max 1/2 ranks here. Which is correct? Midnight08 12:17, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * neither, beta profession. call back after the Nightfall FPE. --Honorable Sarah [[image:Honorable_Icon.gif]] 12:21, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
 * The value in the NPE was 2. I changed the other article.  --68.142.14.19 12:34, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

Do spirits or minions count as allies?
 * Minions do, not sure about spirits --[[Image:Kitty1.jpg|24px|]] (Talk) (Cont) (Cool) [[Image:Soft2.jpg|24px|]] 12:04, 3 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Normally, spirits do count as allies, exapmle can be found by Horn of the Ox. -- [[Image:Ritualist-icon-small.png]] Cwingnam2000 12:07, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

Isn't this just a whee bit too powerful? I can hardly imagine anet intended 5 energy enchants to be comeletely free for paragons o.O (Not a fifty five 10:32, 21 September 2006 (CDT))
 * Who said anything about enchants? It only works with shouts and chants, not enchantments. --Shattered Self 12:56, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
 * THat's what I meant >.<
 * They're free if you have at least 10 points in Leadership and there are at least 2 allies within earshot. What's more, I think all the Leadership-based shouts and chants cost 10+ energy or are adrenaline-based. --Shattered Self
 * At least 4 allies actually. -- Gordon Ecker 23:51, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Description is a bit vague. Does it basically mean you get energy every time you make a shout, and energy received is dependant on how many allies THAT shout affected? --Mira 10:17, 30 October 2006 (CST)
 * Yeah, I'm confused too. Say you use "Go For The Eyes!" and the 2 tanks attack but the 2 monks in the back don't attack. The 2nd time you use that shout, it will already be present on the 2 monks, so will you get 2 less energy? Oh yeah, assume the party is made up of 2 tanks, 2 monks and the Paragon :) --Schmerdro
 * You'll get energy for the monks and the duration of GftE on them will be reset but the old copy won't count as ending. --Fyren 13:05, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Apparently it doesn't count for henchies, i've been using the Anthem of Flame chant but it always gives me back only one block of energy. Not sure if this is a bug or whatever. ~ Melton 07:58, 31 October 2006 (CST)
 * Okay, nevermind, I read the skill description wrongly. You get only one energy per ally who is affected by your shouts. And two points in leadership increases the maximum amount of energy gained by 1. Meaning that it increases your ability to get energy per ally. At 2 leadership you'd be getting 1 energy no matter how many allies there are. ~ Melton 10:41, 31 October 2006 (CST)

I'm also having the problem with anthem of flame and henches/heroes.
 * What kind of problem? I've been using it just fine with them. Note what is said above about leadership increasing the max energy gained from a shout/chant. --Thervold 14:09, 5 December 2006 (CST)

I reverted another report of it not working on heroes and henchmen. I just tried again to be sure, still works fine. --Fyren 16:19, 7 December 2006 (CST)

minions and pets count as allies but you don't get more than 8 energy at leadership 16

I've been having problems with this, too. I had 12 (8+1+3) Leadership, and was in a party of 1 hero and 2 henchies. Using "They're on fire!" got me a total of 4 energy. Not only was it failing to notice the runes and headgear, the henchies and heroes weren't being counted as allies - though I could SEE that Koss was at least affected.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but when the description says "maximum 1 Energy for every 2 ranks" is that supposed to mean the maximum per ally, or the maximum total energy gained? For example if I have 12 leadership, and I have 7 allies within earshot, should I expect my energy gain from a single target shout like "Find Their Weakness" to be different from my energy gain from an earshot shout like "Fall Back"? I guess I thought the energy gain was supposed to be per ally, but I'm noticing my hero Paragon with 12 leadership is only getting an energy refund of 6 when using skills like Song of Restoration. Maybe I misunderstood, and 6 would be her max refund no matter what? Shadowlance 19:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You only get 1 energy per ally per chant/shout. The maximum is a cap on the total energy you get per skill. A single-target skill will give you 1 energy, while a party-wide or "all allies" skill will give you 1 energy per affected ally up to that maximum.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 20:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That helped clear it up for me - thanks. Now that I understand it, I can see how the description matches that.  I guess I wasn't thinking along those lines when I read it originally.  Shadowlance 01:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
I think the desctiption of Leadership should be changed to "You gain up to 2 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 2 ranks)." to make the paragon able to play in smaller parties without their serious e-management problems.-- ( √ iktor ) 18:36, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The whole point of the Paragon was to play in larger (8 player party) settings. Regardless, all you have to do is bring another adrenaline shout/chant instead of an energy based one and you're good to go. --Kale Ironfist 19:44, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I know it forces paragon players to do this but Im getting tired of playing my cookiecutter build for 4 player parties and noone really plays them in TA/RA/AB, well there are a few builds that works there but not as many as for the other classes and the e-man never gets as good as when in a 8 player party. The change in Leadership that I want should'nt make the class imballanced in compairsion to the other classes e-man. I just want the paragon to get ait more usable in PvP maybe changing the Shouts and Chants to all skills that targets allies but that would make the paragon useable with classes other than warrior but anet cant allow that I mean since that actually could make the paragon usable.--[[Image:vik.PNG]] ( √ iktor ) 02:18, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

I strongly agree with this. In all large party situations the energy gain is limited by leadership and not the number of allies. In smaller party situations it is the allies not the leadership level. There seems no harm in changing it to 2 per ally, maximum 1 per 2 ranks of leadership. Signed and enthusiastic! Coruskane 23:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

=19 N/A?= I disagree, you can get 19 Leadership with the special event stuff... -- Zerpha The Improver 09:44, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

I'll go get the values later. PossessedLinebeck 12:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

=Poor Paragons= Probably the greatest energy management in the game, no wonder paragons have been nerfed so much. Why did they make this so good? Because para's can shout/chant for free, they have been nerfed into the most underused profession, a spot once reserved for mesmer. 70.108.211.93 12:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)<=Arcdash, who forgot to log in.

AB rules
Has anyone else noticed that you only get energy from members of your own group, instead of all allies IN allaiance battles? This is where a Paragon should shine I would think, if at least to make up for the near unplayability of them in RAs... ?


 * Point is, most Chants/Shouts only affect Party Members. It has nothing to do with Leadership, really. You won't affect any random allies around you with Anthem of Flame, and thus won't gain Energy from Leads. psst, Para is very playable in RA --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  00:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No that's not my point. The point is that in PvP you only ever have 3+1 "party members." for energy recuperation purposes. You always cap at 4 energy returned at 8 leadership, since only you and 3 "teammates" are included for the energy aspect. Is the efficacy of any other prime attribute capped like this anywhere in the game? Particularly in PvP? The attribute states that,"you gain one energy for each ally affected by one of your shouts or chants..." Let me be specific: "Fall Back!" "affects all allies" and costs 10, and with level 15 leadership you will indeed affect all allies in rage in an AB battle, and you can test it out since it has a visual affect, but you will only ever get 4 energy back. Less than that if your immediate teammates aren't near enough. At the least, it isn't doing what it says it should be doing. I can begin the semantical debate about whether members of the other 2 groups in AB are allies, teammates or whatnot, but I won't. pps define: very playable, until then I stand by "near unplayable" --Apoptosine 15:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You'll get the full load of energy back with Fall Back. FB costs 15, btw. Leadership works as stated. Playable means they work. And they do work in RA. They just don't work in AB cause they aren't really mobile, they need to build adrenaline, maintain shiz and recast anthems to keep up shiz. It doesn't work. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  15:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)