User talk:Karlos8903

If you have questions or wish to discuss anything, please leave me a note here...

RRRRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNGGGGG!!!! WAKE-UP CALL!!!
Hey, your last comment in Talk:The Ebony Citadel of Mallyx (Mission) was:
 * "I plan on rewriting it when I get up from sleep"

So, did you get up from sleep yet? ;) It's two weeks later and the walkthrough is still in pretty bad shape. I don't wanna push you, but I feel that you'd be by far the contributor who is best qualified to do the overhaul. -- 02:41, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Ouch, all those caps in recent changes actually made me flinch. You really know how to catch a Wiki user's attention Tetris. ;) I'm willing to cleanup the article if it's needed (or did you mean bad as in, lacking info?) Entropy 02:44, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * If it was only bad formatting and structure I'd do the clean-up myself. But it ties in closely with incorrect or incomplete information. That's why I think the overhault should be written by somebody who has actually done the mission, and beaten Mallyx. Karlos has. I have not. Have you, Entropy? --[[Image:TurningL sml.gif|Tetris L]] 02:52, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Ahh, I see what you mean. Even if I was qualified to vet the info (I'm not, sorry...just got NF), I wouldn't touch something like that without more help from someone with the experience such as Karlos. I s'pose we'll have to wait.

Ps. Karlos! WARNING: This page is 39 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections.

Time for an Archive! Entropy 03:00, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * No, it's not time for an Archive! It's time for another Gloom run!--Dirigible 03:04, 3 January 2007 (CST)

I apologize for the delay. We've been having a lot of success in the DoA and I have been slacking on my wiki time recently, so it's multiplied. I have a "few" things to point out. Some of them will probably cause a game update VERY soon. :( --Karlos 03:41, 3 January 2007 (CST)

In addition, I have not been able to record all the mobs prior to him first. I usually end up leading the mob and barking left and right on TS or Vent. I know one person who has a full list of all 17 mobs, but he's not willing to share. :( --Karlos 03:52, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * So...hack the gw.dat file :) I think if a videocam was turned on prior to entering the Citadel, and the entire thing captured on "film", it would make revising the article easier. Wouldn't bother you during gameplay either. Then go back and slow-mo the whole battle, count the +Exp things and do frame by frame to see all the different mobs. Just a suggestion. Not to mention it would be a very popular video to watch! Entropy 03:57, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * I don't have video capping that can cap that long, and I don't plan on paying a penny for any such thing. The thing is, I know the mobs so well now, that I can always tell what's coming after acertain mob. The problem is, I can't sequence them all in my head once we are done.  --Karlos 07:20, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Mr. Frugal :) Well, 'twas a suggestion, good luck doing it mentally. (It's the best way imho, always trust yourself better than machines.)
 * Oh, Karlos, I forgot you're on! Could you please see User talk:Skuld? We need admin assistance atm. Thanks!
 * Aww...Xas beat you to it. Nevermind ;( Entropy 07:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Arrrgghh... I want to beat Mallyx again.. pity my schedule =( --Caasig 07:35, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Karlos, I see you did the overhault. Good job! :) (I'll pay you the 50 bucks when I've beaten Mallyx, based on your guide. ;))

One minor thing: Can you fill in the names of the four Anguished Souls, and do you know which one is linked to which environmental effect? -- 05:39, 4 January 2007 (CST)


 * I just remembered having taken a screenshot of the spirits' and mallyx's names. Although I don't know which spirits causes which environmental effect. I'll update the article as needed. --Caasig 04:16, 5 January 2007 (CST)

NWN2
Do you play NWN2 (yet, anyway)? I'm wondering if it's worth the $50. -Auron  08:34, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * Nope, not yet. Consumed by Nightfall so far. I heard the battle system is a little clunky. But I always loved the storyline in those games, so gameplay may not be as big an issue. I admit that Guild Wars has made classic D&D stuff pretty easy for me. :) --Karlos 08:39, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * ive tried it but the control really needs work. Gets annoying after a while and it couldnt really pull me away from NF. If i can get over the issues i have with it i'll let you know what i think of it... Is it worth the $50... if it livesup to NWN1 it will eventually be worth it =) --Midnight08 08:58, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I did everything you could do in NWN1, SoU, and HotU up to and including writing software for official updates. x__X I got burnt out on the series, but it will always be my favorite MMORPG. :) — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 16:02, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * Whats MMORPG stand for in NWN? Mildly Multiplayer RPG? 30-60ish ppl on a server (and thats a very large server) sure isnt Massive=P Writing for official updates? what did ya work on (feel free to bring to my talk)... Its had longer playtime for me than any game ever.... about 5 years on and off... heck, was still playing it just before (and just after) factions. --Midnight08 16:11, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * I collaborated with some of the dev's I knew on staff when they first released the prestige classes in helpng them do requirement checks and all that. It was actually quite fun and got me quite a bit of coding experience. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 18:21, 3 January 2007 (CST)


 * NWN2 was probably the most disappointing game I've ever bought. The UI is terrible and you can't seem to move things around properly, attacking is difficult, it's a pain to play. I absolutely loved NWN1, I played through both the expansion packs with a mate. We'd start Friday night and finish Sunday night, pretty much nothing but eating, drinking, sleeping and NWN! We played through so many user modules and made our own. Originally I only bought GW as something to hold me out until NWN2 came out! But I've only played NWN2 once since I've bought it, keep playing GW, you're not missing out on anything! --Xasxas256 21:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)
 * thats basically the same way i feel tho i keep hoping that im going to dload a player run mod and all of a sudden feel better.... Due to my absolute love of NWN1 i will lilkely buy any expansions in hope that the ui and such is improved... Tho even that might not happen if there are no mentions of improvement in that department. So far ive played the game about 15 minutes (well i spent 30 minutes trying to make the game feel right...) and within that time the game bugged and i could not pass the 1st or second cut scene (NPC wouldnt talk to me)... Since then i havent touched it... And dont get me started on the pre release fiasco...--Midnight08 00:21, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Build:W/E Starburst Warrior
For my own personal reasons I would like to just have an overveiw of the situation that happened in that build page. I would like it if you could post that on my talk page, but if you don't want to do that it is fine if you or anyone really posted what happened here.--TheDrifter 20:54, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * You don't need to ask various users for their accounts of the situation, read it yourself: Build talk:W/E Starburst Warrior. --Xasxas256 20:58, 4 January 2007 (CST)
 * I posted a synopsis on your talk page. — Jyro X [[Image:Darkgrin.jpg]] 21:04, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Well, I looked at the talk apge and was confused, as amny changes were amde and whatnot, but JyroX posted the events so I think I'm good.--TheDrifter 21:07, 4 January 2007 (CST)


 * You might have to go back through the history to fully understand it, originally there were votes in favored. --Xasxas256 21:10, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Admininstrative Action Request
Hello, could you please take a look at User:Solus the deadly? The user has:
 * thrice removed a Ban notice on his page
 * thrice blanked build pages
 * made several demeaning and insulting comments about various builds, users, and the Wiki itself
 * Admits to committing the crimes noted in the Ban notice, and 'Flouts the ban notice, with a saying that "If you edit my page, I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN. You have been Warned!"
 * As noted above, makes personal threats to other users

I think he is clearly in need of a ban. What do you think? Entropy 01:44, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * Thank you Karlos. While you're on a roll, would you care to see User talk:Fyren? The title says it all; Fyren's internet is currently not up to the task. Thank you in advance. Entropy 01:58, 5 January 2007 (CST)
 * To add to what I posted there (more evidence): User:SInky has many links on his userpage to User:androidgeoff. They also happen to be on at mutually exclusive times. (Grr I keep thinking "S l i n k y" but it's not, clever name >< ).
 * At Build talk:Mo/R Speed Cupido, I mentioned the "old Cupido" build Build:Mo/R Cupido. User:SInky said, "I don't mind if my old build was unfavored, I enjoy using it". Note that the old build was posted by User:androidgeoff, before User:SInky even existed. How could it be "his" build if he wasn't a different user back then, aka. Sockpuppet? I think more than anything that is a clear, if inadvertant, admittance.
 * Finally, Fyren said that a cursory check revealed no similar IP's. That's one point in favor of the defendant, I suppose - however we know how easy it is to change IP's, so that's not a Disprove really. ...again Thank you in advance, I know you're busy with Mallyx at the moment. As you should be. :) Entropy 03:17, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * I looked at this briefly and just so you know, suspicion is not grounds for conviction. "We all know how easy it is to fake change IPs" is kinda disturbing to me. In any case, I'll look into it later, but right now, I am not inclined to see a reason for banning. --Karlos 03:27, 5 January 2007 (CST)


 * As you wish. :| Perhaps I am simply personally motivated; both have things on their userpages that severely disturb and disgust me. Btw, the "We all know how easy it is to fake change IPs" is something I pulled from the old debates on Stabber...iirc that was one of the convincing arguments for grounds of "conviction" as it were. Maybe I'm recalling wrong. Anyways, thanks for your time. I'll return my attention to Talk:Optional Adrenal Skill now, where I may have a better case for banning or deletion going. Sigh. Entropy 03:35, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Please review
User:Gares Redstorm/Action

Hopefully users will notice this as I can't possibly post on everyone's talk page. &mdash; Gares 18:22, 5 January 2007 (CST)

Vandalism
Vandalism made on Order of the Vampire by 82.42.5.99 (already reverted but can't block).. Corsaire  08:48, 12 January 2007 (CST)


 * Done. Thanks for the heads up. --Karlos 08:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)


 * You're welcome.. keeping me busy after an end of a project here at work.. ;) And learned how to rv in two clicks (wasn't aware of the (edit) link on previous versions.. learning every day.. :D Corsaire  [[image:Corsaire_Signature.gif]] 08:54, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Adding a parameter to a template in pages
Hi!

Is is correct to add this line: "insignia = Stonefist|" in pages like this one just above the bonus parameter??

Corsaire  12:16, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * Yes. Look at it Stonefist Gauntlets now for the correct usage. &mdash; Gares 13:08, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Edit:I had to force refresh for it to display correctly. &mdash; Gares 13:10, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * Thanx.. I'll try to add them if I see it.. ;) Corsaire  [[image:Corsaire_Signature.gif]] 16:53, 17 January 2007 (CST)


 * You're very welcome (collects undue credit, yaaay). :P --Karlos 19:52, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Vandalism II
Vandalism made on General collectors (Kryta) by 212.226.131.99 (already reverted but can't block).. Corsaire  08:41, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * I wouldn't ban for that. &mdash; Skuld 08:46, 18 January 2007 (CST)
 * Just to mention it.. :$ You're the admin.. ;) Corsaire  [[image:Corsaire_Signature.gif]] 08:49, 18 January 2007 (CST)

DoA bosses, are they really bosses?
You're the only one on the wiki I know does DoA runs, so thought I'd contact you :P. Could you take a look at this, Talk:City_of_Torc'qua? Curious to know what you think on the issue. Thanks. --Dirigible 16:30, 18 January 2007 (CST)

Question on builds...
Hey Karlos, I have a quick question for you. I also asked this of Barek, but I'm not sure if he's around any time soon or not. I noticed on the Rajazan's Fervor page, Jyro X removed references to farming builds, saying that builds are temporary and subject to deletion. I'm not familiar with guildwiki's current attitude towards builds in general, but is that actually the case? Thanks for the help.

P.S. What is the source of the "coolest question" you have listed on your page? It seems familiar, but I can't quite place it... -- Imbril Shadowfire  20:51, 24 January 2007 (CST)


 * I reverted his change before even reading this. My concern will always be precedent. I checked the two builds and both have been vetted. So, the reference is valid. If the claim is that builds are transient, that claim holds true for all builds. This means we take out all references to builds from all non-build articles. In order for such a big step to be taken, it would have to be discussed first. Builds are referenced all over the wiki.
 * The quote is from Diablo 2's introductory cutscene. --Karlos 20:56, 24 January 2007 (CST)


 * That's what I was wondering, but I figured I should check in case such a policy was put in place. Thanks again! --[[Image:SmallMapleLeaf.jpg|19px|User:ImbrilShadowfire]] Imbril Shadowfire  20:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)

GW:NPA aka GW:GARES
I wanted to request your comments on No personal attacks, to see if you had any concerns with the contents (wordiness, definitions, flexibility, enforcement concerns, etc) of the proposed policy. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:28, 26 January 2007 (CST)

(3111h - 2586h) / 44 days = ~12h/day
It's amazing... You played your Ele about 12 hours per day for the last 1 1/2 month (assuming the date was up to date when adding it here). I wish I had that much time. I always wanted to make a fullrun in DoA since it was added but I don't have the time to a) find a efficient group and b) do the run itself ;) My gratulations on your achievements there... --Kai Neah Nung 13:36, 29 January 2007 (CST)


 * I doubt I played her 12 hours a day, but yeah, I played her non-stop till she got Lightbringer 8. :) --Karlos 06:16, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Build:N/Mo Bloodlust
Could you take a look at this please? Either revert it to Unfavored, or just delete this nonsensical build. Thanks. - Krowman  01:27, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Checked and both your options given to me are rejected. The guy was never given a chance to finish working on his build. Those bullying him with wiki policy should be ashamed. --Karlos 06:32, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * I made have made a mistake there as I was in a bit of a rush. That's the reason but not a valid excuse :( --Xasxas256 06:34, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * You big wiki-bully you. My only advice to you on this matter is ALWAYS double-check requests for banning people in the builds sections. Lots of people with too much to prove in that area for some reason. I did not know he was blocked by the way. Thanks for taking care of that. --Karlos 06:42, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Yeah when I went through the four ban candidates earlier today, I banned two and left a note for the other two. I should have only banned one, a poor call by me on that one. Kind of ironic given I just spent half an hour writing up some conduct guidelines for my guild on treating people with respect. --Xasxas256 06:48, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Respect is overrated. :P I say we place a rule, every time you ban someone incorrectly, you pay me 100 ectos. :) --Karlos 06:57, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Well if we do 100 UW runs together first that won't be a problem! Otherwise...where did those ads to GW Gold go to!? :P --Xasxas256 07:07, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * Do DoA, my friend. You'll be sitting on a stack of ectos in no time. :) --Karlos 07:18, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Build talk:D/E Obsidian Dervish
Did you intentionally get my vote out of the unfavored or did you only mean to cut the comments following it? 18:00, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Hey Ichigo. I added a redirect to your sig image so that it links to your user page.  However, I don't believe this new sig complies with GW:SIGN.  Yeah, I know its supposed to be Ichigo from Bleach (at least I think that's who you're going for), but even though I know the show and the character I would never have guessed that that's who that image is of.  Also, you have to take into account that there are people who don't watch anime.  I know, its crazy, but some people just don't like it.  Anyway, you should probably add you name to the sig either before or after the image.&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  15:42, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * I previously used a version with the name in it, but it was too big according to GW:sign, I replaced the old one with the smaller one, thus my comments made with the first pic are now nameless. It was only a few hours so meh. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:58, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * Also, please note (and respond to) the multiple personal attacks by Ichigo724 in the talk page of this build. for example, "Also: "OHMAHGAWDZDEYTINKIMSTUPIDDDDDD". " or, comments made to the user "Ekrin" over his literary levels. -TehBuG-
 * He said: "But you learn in High School how to interpret the meaning of writting." & "but you really ARE ignorant if you vote without testing. And when your ignorant your chances to sound/look stupid skyrocket." He starts about interpreting the meaning of "writing" but fails to spell it wrong, I felt the need to point it out. And both those lines were clearly flamebait. Also: he clearly disregarded the voting policy which I was following, and questioned my reason for voting while I don't need to specify one. –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 10:46, 9 February 2007 (CST)


 * Please play nice guys. --Karlos 13:24, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Perhaps we need a new policy/guideline/essay article... something along the lines of "GW:Please play nice" (or aka GW:Karlos). ;-)  --Zampani 13:55, 9 February 2007 (CST)


 * It's just not worth it. It's too small an arguemnt, and there isn't really that much foul language going on. So, just let it go. --Karlos 15:53, 9 February 2007 (CST)


 * im playing nice. even tho in the talk page ichi and i are a bit opposed in opinion, all i was doing was pointing out something i believed to be agenst wiki policy. nothing personal ichi. (*waves a big ol white flag*) -TehBuG-
 * Policy suggest was in jest, a play off of the whole GW:Gares thing. Guess my winkie didn't bring that across. I'll have to be more obvious next time... --Zampani 18:06, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actuailly, im new here still so any joke is like a 747 flying overhead to me... -TehBuG-

Egypt
So, how is life in Egypt. I'd love to go there. -- S i  g  m  A   05:54, 11 February 2007 (CST)


 * I don't live in Egypt right now, but life in Egypt is awesome. Of course, I am biased. The environment is poluted, the government is corrupt, but it's the people that make it a very pleasurable place for me. Egyptians are very kind, and their wit and sense of humor tops any other people I have come across. For me, an Egyptian myself, those are nice qualities to be around. --Karlos 07:35, 12 February 2007 (CST)


 * Do you like Egypt culture? -- S i  g  m  A  09:43, 12 February 2007 (CST)


 * Odd question given my response. Yes, I do like Egyptian culture. Especially upper-Egyptian (southern Egyptian) culture where my roots are. However, I think you should qualify your question, what do you mean when you say "Egyptian Culture"? --Karlos 10:40, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * The pyramid things etc. -- SigmA 10:43, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * I mean no hostility and such, but that comes off as a foreign/ignorant kind of comment. The supposition that pyramids and things is all there is to Egyptian culture. I just thought it's something that I, as an Asian, experience a lot. While the question might be well meaning, it's like everything you know about them comes from popular media.
 * And did Karlos just indirectly that his origins are superior to every other he met? =O Fascist/Nazi Nationalism! =P --Silk Weaker 10:57, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * That Egypt is a big departure from actual modern Egypt. The modern Egypt is mostly a product of Islamic culture (and ancient Egypt is separated from Islamic Egypt by the Egypt of classical antiquity, where it was strongly influenced by Hellenic culture). History of Egypt has a breakdown of the historical eras. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 11:05, 13 February 2007 (CST)

If I say Egypt, I directly think of the Nile, Pyramids and old stone houses. -- SigmA 11:10, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Cairo, in my eyes, was a combination of New York, and Jerusalem. it's a center of modern tourism for Europe, as well as a city with ancient monuments. Foo 12:03, 13 February 2007 (CST)

Hmmm, interesting views. Here are my thoughts:

a) I did not say Egyptians are better than the rest of the world, I said I believe Egyptians have the sharpest sense of humor in the world. This is first of all a subjective observation (cannot be verified since humor itself is relative), and second, it's not something you can form an opinion about having never been there and lived among the everyday average folks.

b) To say that Egypt's civilizationa and history are long gone and that their culture is predominantly Arab/Islamic is, with all due respect, a very ignorant statement. There are many reasons why this opinion permeates in the west. However, if you get to know Egyptians, and study their style of living, their ideals and their nature, you'll discover that those same Egyptians are still there. I can go into details as to why such an opinion is popular in the west and why it's simply wrong, however, Just like 2,000 years have done nothing to erase the basic tenants of Western culture developed by the Greeks and dominant in European society... 5,000+ years of history cannot be simply erased. It's the same Western junk (excuse the expression) that all Muslim peoples are this monolith (bearded angry men, oppressed wives, bomb strapped around waist, ...) and one who holds such an opinion is no better informed that one who thinks Egypt is pyramids and a nile.

c) I specifically mentioned the people because that's what everyone overlooks. I have met people here in the US, a LOT of people here, who think Egypt still looks like those photos in people's hourses. Smooth desert, a few camels running about with a couple of bedouins, a calm river and a bunch of ancient monuments in the background. As if the Arabs came to this ancient civilization and just settled with their camels and tents around it and stayed like that for 1,400. Not only is this view ignorant... Egypt has been THE most influential country in its region for 90% of that past 1,400 years just as it was for 90% of the previous 6,000 years. This is not by accident. This is a product of the land, the history and most importantly... The people. Who stopped the Mongol Hordes from overrunning the world into darkness? The Egyptians. Who stopped the Crusaders from bringing their darkness and savagery to the middle east and instead taught them about civilizations? The Egyptians. These are historic achievements that belong to the "people" of Egypt. Just like how Europeans will always owe America for stopping the Nazis, the Muslim world (though it should be most of the world outside of Mongolia) owes Egypt a great undying sense of gratitude. These military acheivements are only a measure of how influential Egypt was in the past 1,000 years. We've had many great scientists and scholars come out from Egypt as well, not to mention, most recently, Nobel Prize winners. Do you even know that Egypt has more Nobel Prizes as a country than Japan? d) People who study Egypt mostly do a very poor job of understanding how those pyramids and temples and monuments connect to the modern Egyptian people. I think some of them don't even want to find out.

--Karlos 12:07, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think of the whole idea of an unbroken line of cultural descent as Western junk, too. For all of this talk of "the Classics," the West has always been about play-acting at being Greek rather than actually being Greek (for example, there's this German book where some guy just makes up all this completely untrue stuff about Sparta based on a handful of documents and his idealized vision of his own father). My view of Egyptian ethnic identity as it relates to ancient and modern Egypt is mostly constructed from this one Egyptian archaeologist (he's on like every TV show about ancient Egypt, kind of a short tanned guy), who talks about the pyramids &c. as a cultural heritage but doesn't really claim them per se. My view of ethnic identity in general is that it's a discursive, constructed thing. I guess you're using the concept of an unbroken line of cultural descent more softly and broadly than I am (I don't see Mycenaean Greece and Classical Greece as one culture, either, much less ancient Greece and modern Greece) -- which is fair, since the whole reason I narrow my view is that I've been a bit overexposed to the "one big Greek/Roman/European super-civilization" worldview a bit much, which doesn't seem to be a trope that's as wide-spread outside of Western Europe and the US. In short: I over-separate things as a backlash to the poorly-supported but widely-distributed claims that everything Western is one big enduring culture, so forgive me if I'm over-separating Egyptian culture as well. &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 12:25, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * German Humor is the best O.o -- SigmA 12:25, 13 February 2007 (CST)


 * I don't mean to indicate that Western culture is one big monolith either. I also do not see Western culture as tracing all its roots back to Ancient Greeks. I see three distincts roots all operating in tandem to produce what is known as Western culture and the three do not all trace their roots back to Greece. I see, Ancient Greece being the biggest influence in terms of politics, self-governance and philosophy, I see Nordic and Germanic concepts of strength and championship (this concept of "winner gets to do whatever he wants") which is very dominant in much of politics and Western anthropological view of the world, and finally I see the effect of Christianity (which is technically, not a "western" idea). These three elements shape modern Western popular culture as I see it today.
 * Back to Egyptian culture... It's the same thing. There is obivously a strong influence from Islamic and Arab culture, but there is also the strong influence of their heritage. --Karlos 13:11, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think we're just talking past each other. My fault -- I think of "roots" a bit differently than you do. What you said makes perfect sense to me now that I have more context on it. Just different ways of talking about the same thing. ;) &mdash; 130.58 (talk) 14:03, 13 February 2007 (CST)

Woman wear burka's? --13:17, 13 February 2007 (CST)


 * Some women still do, in bedouin areas and towns in upper Egypt. --Karlos 13:45, 13 February 2007 (CST)

I've always wanted to go to Egypt, too. Alas, times are hard, and I can't even play GW now. BTW isn't Nightfall supposedly based on an Egyptian concept, of all things? Gives you something to think about. Skyreal 16:42, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * British humour is the best. This is true because I am the best. That is all.  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 19:02, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Sky, of the three regions, Kourna resembles Egypt the most. At least modern Egypt since maybe the Saracen/Memluk days. Fertile Agricultural land, farming society, strong military rule. However, it lacks the sophisticated cities that Egypt has such as Cairo and Alexandria. It seems like the most backward of the three regions in terms of culture, which is not true of Egypt which leads its region in terms of culture and literature.
 * Biro, I like Brittish humor, I never knew there was German humor. :P --Karlos 19:06, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Farming... what about anti-farming co...*dies* –Ichigo724[[Image:Ichigo-signature.jpg]] 19:51, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * lol Karlos you tell 'em. Us Arabs aren't living under palm trees in cardboard boxes in the middle of a desert! (No offense to anyone) Leave it to media to take us back centuries..I've been to Cairo several times but I'd still say: Lebanon ftw :P Gabe 16:39, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Change Back
Karlos, someone ruined this page Wroth's Holy Rod can you change this back? Tomoko Pink Angel 13:52, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Sweet toot title track
I saw you had some new titles, but they are not on you're userpage yet. Jelmewnema 03:02, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * I'm waiting on one more character to get one more milestone, then I'll make a big update to all character pages. Are you stalking me? :P --Karlos 04:42, 20 February 2007 (CST)


 * I daren't consider what a "sweet toot" is ;)  &lt;LordBiro&gt;/&lt;Talk&gt; 10:16, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Awww...how cute. ^_^ Karlos has a stalker.&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]] 16:27, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * -_-, i have to watch my words, because everything seems 2 be used against me. Jelmewnema 02:30, 23 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yep! ^_^ That's how things work around here =D&mdash; [[Image:Azroth sig.png||builds]] Azroth  [[Image:Azroth sig2.png||talk]]  19:30, 23 February 2007 (CST)

Colossal Scimitar
Hi, someone was messing with the Colossal Scimitar page. I reverted this and could you ban the user? his IP was 24.9.14.146. Look at the history of the page. Thanks. -- SigmA 05:32, 20 February 2007 (CST)

RPGs
Hey Karlos, I'm also a big fan of RPGs and I thought I could tell you about my favourite RPGs. There are two besides the one you mentioned.
 * The first one is a RPG called Arcanum. It's much like Fallout as it was made by the same developers (or at least using the same engine or something ;). I love it because it has one of the coolest and most detailled world I've ever experieced in an RPG. Even after playing the game three times, I still spot new NPCs/quests etc. The best of all is the enourmous amount of detail in every single element of the game.
 * The second one is an old RPG produced in Germany. It's called Albion and has by far the best story/atmosphere I've ever seen in a game. I've never been frightened by a dungeon as much as by those in Albion. You might love it... Even if the graphic is horrible compared to recent games.

Maybe your list might be one or two entrys longer in a while ;) --Kai Neah Nung 09:04, 23 February 2007 (CST)


 * I can vouch for Arcanum. It's one of the most unique RPGs I had played in a while. I was partial to the machinery part of the game. It's been a long time, but it's a game I would still play to this day if I wasn't so engrossed in GW. &mdash; Gares 09:37, 23 February 2007 (CST)


 * I believe I tried Arcanum though I can't find the box right now. I think it I was put off by the combat system. Can't recall though, it's been a while. --Karlos 14:04, 23 February 2007 (CST)

User:Natures Own
I'm not entering another revert war. he is trying to change his RAB. I'll revert once and leave it. --SBR 01:53, 24 February 2007 (CST)

Check this out..
Hey Karlos, I suppose you would already know about this but since it's not here I thought I should post it anyways. [| ANet Wiki] ANet is working on releasing a private wiki of some sorts.. Gabe 16:44, 24 February 2007 (CST)
 * - Karlos is already a member there. :P -  B e X or [[Image:Bexor.png]]  05:00, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yup, im already there. Thanks. --Karlos 13:29, 25 February 2007 (CST)
 * :O I had NO idea it started... :( LOL Gabe 00:10, 26 February 2007 (CST)

No Tested Votes
Karlos, Under the vetting procedure it says to contact an admin if we find a vote to be objectionable, and I saw that you are on the admin list. If you get a chance, please look at the W/R Dire Pet Evolver votes. Some people are leaving votes and are being pretty blatant about the fact that they didn't even try to test the build (their responses were "this is unnecessary"). Please consider removing these votes. Thank you.--Token Cleric 00:30, 27 February 2007 (CST)
 * From the vetting procedure: Voting after testing the build in game and leaving a detailed comment with the vote is preferred, but not needed to make the vote count. Testing is not required.  --Rainith 00:50, 27 February 2007 (CST)


 * You have my sympathy, that's all I can say. I put my opinion out there, I think the votes are rubbish, I would strike them all out if they were not actually in-line with the ridiculous policy we have in place now. --Karlos 05:23, 27 February 2007 (CST)


 * Thank you for your time. I just posted a reply there and in the vetting procedure.  This is just ridiculous; the vetting procedure says to contact an admin of we find a vote to be objectionable, but it doesn't say what constitutes an invalid vote.  Basically it's saying "contact us, even though we already know that we won't be able to do anything about it, regardless of the circumstances."--Token Cleric 22:42, 27 February 2007 (CST)


 * Objectionable is not the right word. Admins only interfere in the case of "Corrupt votes." i.e. Sockpuppettering and the like. Not votes that users don't like, but votes that are fake, erased votes, etc. --Karlos 01:15, 28 February 2007 (CST)


 * By the way, I thought you might get a chuckle out of this: I commented to one of the voters about it on his user page, and this was part of his reply: "if you want survivor that bad, then WORK for it. put in the farming effort to dire your pet the right way, not the "cheap" way."  He even admits right there that the build is a "cheap" (read: effective) way to evolve a dire pet.  Ridiculous.  If hours of work and testing can be so easily swept aside, then I'm done contributing to the builds section.  I've made two successful builds for the wiki, both of which I have spent an enormous amount of time discussing in the discussion page.  It's easy to help people through their testing issues if they are willing to at least try the build; there's no amount of discussing that will sway the minds of these "drive-by" voters.
 * Anyway, thanks again for your time. It's a shame that a site that a site that is supposed to be about sharing information handcuffs its admins from doing anything when people want to stifle it.--Token Cleric 14:53, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Abusive/destructive IP in builds section, requesting action
I don't know if this is the right place, or if it's necessary to say more since I mentioned on its talk page, but an anon IP very recently created the following build: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:D/Mo_Imbue_Health_Prot_Dervish  (sorry for using the bad link format, I'll fix if I really have to, but it's 3:38 am here and I'm rather tired...), and has placed a vetted tag on it for all forms of PvP, then went on a rampage unfavoring other builds with similar concepts, all within 2 hours of the creation of the build. I fear if this person is left unchecked in the builds section, they could do rather significant damage. Hoping this is the right place to mention this, and that it's resolved quickly. Shas&#39;o Kauyon 03:30, 1 March 2007 (CST)

Sorry to post again so shortly, but as of a moment ago, another user has turned it to testing status, though judging by the actions of the creator (check page history), I doubt it will stay that way long. Though due to assume good faith, guessing that it will probably have to have more time, since if they're intent on such lowly activities I doubt that another user changing it will stop them and it will show. It's clear that since it was already in a "seemingly" complete state the moment that it was posted, I strongly doubt the user is just a newbie making a big mistake (I hope this isn't an experienced user using an open proxy to avoid being caught, that would just be...low), and the fact that they flipped out on other builds makes reasonable doubt for them even less justifiable. Just hoping it goes over well. Shas&#39;o Kauyon 03:37, 1 March 2007 (CST)

EDITED AGAIN: The user has also just recently blanked an entire talk page on another build, and it's fairly obvious this person is rather knowledgeable about wiki formatting, so I personally believe there's literally no way this user has any intent of meaningful contribution. Should you be in doubt, just check their contributions. Shas&#39;o Kauyon 03:40, 1 March 2007 (CST)

Argh, I hate to even bring up the idea of this because of...certain past events..but, it seems increasingly apparent that this anon IP is a temporary sockpuppet of an existing contributor/puppetmaster, just hoping it's not one of the major contributors. Shas&#39;o Kauyon 03:54, 1 March 2007 (CST)


 * I'm sorry, I skimmed through all that and just went to the trouble pages and viewed the user's contributions and banned him based on that. I see no case for sockpuppeteering so I am ignoring that argument till more compelling evidence. I probably should have blocked him for a week, but let's see how this goes. --Karlos 04:27, 1 March 2007 (CST)

Credit!
I'd just like to say that I have used your user page as the basis for my own, and have credited you. If however you would like me to change anything or make it look different i would be happy to! (if i know how! i used yours as i was unsure of how to make one from scratch.) I must also say i enjoyed reading you're page! It kpet me nicely entertained! xD --Chronicinability 03:09, 6 March 2007 (CST)


 * That's absolutely fine, and thanks for mentioning it. You are free to copy anything I do with and without my permission or even giving credit. :) --Karlos 04:26, 6 March 2007 (CST)


 * User:Patrickssj6 ^^ Credit Where Credit Is Due. Patrickssj6 18:48, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

Solus
Stemming from User talk:Drick10, I think Solus voted unfavored upon Build:W/any The Feared Soldier just out of spite. In fact, he admits under his vote that it was. I know we can not cross out vote. Please deal with this appropriately. --SBR 01:33, 9 March 2007 (CST)


 * I see him making a case for why he voted it down. A poor case, yes, but a spite vote? I don't see that. --Karlos 04:01, 10 March 2007 (CST)

Mean Was Joe Green
Heya Karlos, I just happened to read your user page and saw your rit's name. Made me laugh out loud. I can just imagine a message in-game saying "So-and-so drops an ashes of Mean Joe Green." And is that a touchdown victory pose? =) — HarshLanguage 06:31, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Nah, that was a two-point conversion. :P --Karlos 14:44, 22 March 2007 (CDT)


 * If it was dropped wouldn't it more likely end up being a safety? ;)  --Rainith 18:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

The Four Horsemen
Can I understand from your edit that you finished that quest? this one, together with Terrorweb Queen, are the two last UW quest I haven't done, and are now my main goal in the game. I'd love to join you, if you will be going there again. Foo 07:20, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, we made a guild group last and cleared UW. I had completed it before long, long ago and had no screen shot. This time I was aware of the ? in the quest log. We did that run for old times sake and to take advantage of the ability to get people from both American and Euro servers to go.
 * To address your request, I don't see my guild doing many of these any time soon, however, I would love to go again and certainly would love to help out. So, PM me next time you're on and I'll ask around and see who'd be interested in going again. There were a few people who wanted to go but could not, I am sure they'd love to try again.
 * The main burden, I think is the fact that you're on Euro servers and I'm on American servers. We can try and perhaps get a group (aimed at Chaos Planes and Spawning Pools specifically) this weekend. Otherwise, I don't know how we can get it done.
 * I'd like to also add that the Terrorweb Queen quest is still broken. --Karlos 07:56, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I also have an American account, and I'd be happy to join you with it, if I could fit in your build with a prophecies ranger. (if not, then give me a few days and I'll roll a necro, ele, whatever... :) Foo 08:13, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * We steamrolled through the place with the DoA build. The only hairy moment was the Four Horsemen quest. So, our core professions were ele, necro and monk. --Karlos 08:15, 24 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Then I guess I'll roll a necro... (assuming Reckless Haste could be left out. this is not the DoA after all...). Foo 08:34, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm ascended, now it's only AP quests and getting some skills. :] Foo 19:51, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

A correction to our last talk: beside tomorrow, I'm free all week, so every day, at whatever hour, will be good. Foo 09:07, 25 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Hey Karlos. after completing today the Terrorweb Queen quest, (The bug didn't occur this time), I'd like to remind you that I'm still up for The Four Horsemen. if you'll arrange the time, I'll be there and ready. Foo 20:11, 16 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Update: now that I have passage scrolls to the uw, once you will have a party, we will be able to go without favor dependency, and with a well set toon from my main account. Foo 10:48, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm not home yet, but I will be totaly free tonight, and will be online as of around 5 hours from now. Foo 11:25, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Weird page
How can I delete/move the article Http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Seb2net/Builds:Build:Me/any Echoes of the Lightbringer and it's talk page? They exist after a user moved a build article, but they can't be accessed. (Yes, that is a wiki article name, not an url) -- (talk) 09:10, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Never mind. I got it manually. --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (talk) 09:16, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


 * K, np. :) --Karlos 09:16, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Previous Alliance??
Hey Karlos, i was reading your page and i saw parts of it which stood the guild [TLS]is that the guild The Lost Sar....??, if it is im in the alliance of that guild now. Tomoko


 * Yup. The Lost Saracens. Good people, we just parted ways amicably when they got fixated on FFing and we decided to look beyond that. I know Weifarer and his brother from those days. Black just got Savior 2 days ago, after EIGHT months. :) --Karlos 07:31, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes i've heard that =) but you never FFF again? maybe we can FFF together with the alliance someday =) [[Image:Tomoko's_Cookie.jpg|19px]] Tomoko 213.124.168.231 09:06, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I hardly ever do. I went with Black about a month ago cause my mesmer needed 10k to get through to Eternal Grove, but otherwise, I don't have any incentive to do it. Seeing as to how it took him 8 months, I am NOT going to bother with it. :) --Karlos 00:41, 30 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Awww that's to bad, whenever you are gonna just PM me or something =) [[Image:Tomoko's_Cookie.jpg|19px]] Tomoko 213.124.168.231 08:20, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Jolee Bindo
Under your coolest henchman list, It says you like Jolee Bindo who is from KOTOR. May I ask WHY? He's so dam annoying! Solus  21:58, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Guess as you get older you are more inclined to agree with grouchy old men. :P I mean, come on! "What can I say? I did it all for the wookies!" That's enough to land him a place! :) --Karlos 00:38, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

Build:N/D Mystic Blood Bonder
Hey Karlos, on your favored vote on my build, one of your criticisms was the use of Vital Boon and Signet of Pious Light. After doing some play-testing, I was also not crazy about these skills, and started testing alternatives. Just thought I'd send you a quick note to let you know that I came up with some great replacement skills so you should take a look if you get a chance. Thanks! -- BrianG 15:15, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

15k Gladiators armor
I saw you're warrior is having this armor, and i wanted to notify you of the fact that the helmet of this armor is going to be added in the game. You probably knew this already, but just in the case you didn't. Jelmewnema 10:14, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Karlos know everything. That's why he never replies to stuff on his talk page before others, it's just too boring to know everything and repeat it to others all the time. ;) --[[Image:Gem-icon-sm.png]] (gem / talk) 10:23, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, it's a ugly helm, so i wouldn't recommend it anymore:P.

Oh, I'm just busy in real life and in the game that I don't have as much wiki time as I would like. That being said, my Warrior has finally forsaken his 15k Gladiator's armor about a month ago. He got the one armor that I could get for him. Details when I update my user page which is long overdue. --Karlos 13:52, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

Hello there...
I just loaded up Port Sledge to buy a bunch of Signets of Capture, and who do I see? A drunk Lamees! --Kale Ironfist 06:05, 9 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yup, drinking and reading Angels and Demons and the Da Vince Code. :) --Karlos 00:38, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * good choices ^.^ read deception point too if you haven't already &mdash; Skuld 16:21, 11 April 2007 (CDT)


 * That's a really good one. Chief Savage Man 19:07, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

obsidian dervy
Since you seem to be a DoA expert, you said you can tank DoA with the ob derv, but how do you do the cave of gloom? I've tried using Pious Concentration for anti-interupt but so far I can't seem to do it. Any tips? - Skakid9090 21:02, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It's inferior to Ele and Warrior, that's the bottom line. The reason is that Pious Concentration causes you to lose enchants, which is what you're trying to avoid.
 * So, the Cave in Gloom is the ultimate test of resiliency. If you can survivce the cave, you can do the others fairly well. The problem with the cave is the following:
 * a) You need to maintain constant spell coverage, otherwise, the Soul Tormentors can remove enchants and work with the Mind Tormentors to give you -10 health degen. In addition, the Mind Tormentors can interrupt you. Finally, if you get hexed, the Earth Tormentors will strip an enchant every time they hit you.
 * b) To maintain constant spell coverage (Spell Breaker + Ob flesh chain) you need to not be interrupted on your own Obsidian Flesh. This means Glyph of Concentration. Especially since half the time, the Sanity Tormentors will have you dazed.
 * c) The Sanity and Spirit Tormentors both posses hard interrupts that interrupt the glyph itself, esepcially when they are piled up on you trying to hit the casters behind you. Point blank Savage Shot is not cool.
 * d) So, you basically need a Glyph of concetnration to get off your Glyph of Concentration. A warrior uses "Wary Stance" to put up the Glyph, an ele uses Mantra of Resolve and then cancels it with Mantra of Earth.
 * e) A dervish can only use Pious Concentration, the price is losing enchants, which you are trying to avoid. So, in order to make it work, have your monk give you EXTRA enchants when you're about to use Pious Concentration. i.e. ask for Prot Spirit and Seed, then put up Pious, use the Glyph then cancel Pious with Conviction. This should work since you will not be interrupted more than once or twice in the span of 1 second. Once the glyph is up, make sure to cancel Pious Concentration before using any spells.
 * In the end, a Dervish Obsidian Flesh tank gets the worst of both worlds, weaker earth spells and weaker natural armor. Good luck and let me know how it goes. --Karlos 21:34, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I tank it a lot with my ele. I tried your suggestions but it's just hard to find a competant PUG monk willing to do that when he could just Sb you average warrior. I guess I'll wait for new eye of the north skills ;) - Skakid9090 16:17, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Meh, I tanked it yesterday using Mirage Cloak, not as safe as wary/mantra, but hey, it works. - <font color="Black">Skakid9090 01:07, 14 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I completely forgot about that. That's what my friend used as a cover enchant in that 8th skill slot. Mirage Cloak to help block those hard interrupts. Good show, old bean. :) --Karlos 01:35, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

User Help
I'm having a problem with a user User Talk:RiVen, Who continues to insult me, when i asked him to stop. Can you warn please, or give him a temp ban, he's just acting really childish...Stevo101 14:21, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

By the Way
Mandalore has been and will ALWAYS be the best Henchman, nobody is that cool. And yes, he as come to GW with a few buddys.

Also considering you seen to be a Stars Wars/Rpg Fan, any words on Kotor 3? Solus  06:06, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Just a note
Nice Mallayx run you had, looking for new guild members ^^? Solus  10:49, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Need a review
Any chance you can check up on Solus' continued actions on the Elemental Sword talk page? Comments like

"Fuck the policy, the information was wrong, I removed, Simple as that. Policies don't mean you can post fasle information. Solus 02:02, 14 May 2007 (CDT)"

really make a mockery of the wiki and the people who strive to uphold the rules. mikkel 12:48, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

Impressive title list
I just stumbled over you're page(not so rare since you've been on many discussion pages) and I see you're missing some prestige titles: Legendary cartographer and Legendary skillhunter. You should be proud of these titles and add them:P. Jelmewnema 09:22, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, that's what i call impressive..Jelmewnema 09:29, 29 May 2007 (CDT)


 * thanks. :) --Karlos 19:46, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

btw
i keep forgetting to tell you this hon, so i figured i'd wiki it since you arent online while i am remembering...that is a SUPER great pic of lamees :D  Vanessa 16:03, 30 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Thanks and thanks for telling me in-game. :) --Karlos 01:03, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Stoneherder's Flatbow edit
I noticed that you felt the need to remove the note about other Unique weapons with the same stats. You stated "do NOT put specific green equivalents". However, you are very wrong about that. Almost every article for a Unique weapon, notes other Uniques weapons with identical stats, ex. Victo's Bulwark and Victo's Battle Axe. I see no reason to not do this, because someone may see the weapon, like its stats, but find that it is too rare and expensive for their "budget" but then see that there is a weapon with the exact same stats available for a fraction of the price. So really, though you may be an admin, you need to get something to back up your claims. --Curse You 15:44, 2 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I disagree. I always constantly removed such references because I feel they are impractical, however, I see that they have become very widespread. This is not my wiki, this is the community's wiki, so I give up. Personally, if I like Urgoz's Longbow, skin and rarity is a part of that, and knowing that Drago's Flatbow has the same stats is of very little use. --Karlos 02:18, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * If I don't like the skin of Drago's Flatbow, but I want something with the same stats and a better skin, I would like to know there is another unique counterpart. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 04:31, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Getting Urgoz's Flatbow instead of Drago's because you like the stats but not the skin of Drago's is called liking Urgoz's Flatbow. I'd much rather we place a link in each green weapon to the green weapon lists for weapons of the same type than just indicate greens with the exact same stats. But again, what's done is done. I'm not about to embark on any campaigns of change right now. Too busy with real life. --Karlos 05:55, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * You're assuming everyone who plays the game knows every green weapon and its alternatives before coming to the wiki. This place is supposed to be providing that information. - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 07:20, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Exactly. We should always assume that there will be someone reading the Unique Item articles who doesn't know to look on the Unique Items quick reference pages to find Uniques with the same stats. --Curse You 10:35, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I don't understand how "I much rather we place a link to the entire list of green weapons of that specific weapons type" means I am assuming users know every green in the game. But go ahead, knock yourselves out, setup a straw-man argument and beat it to death. Yaaaay, you win, I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous to assume users know all greens that exist.
 * Now, for those not trying to win straw-man debates... It's better to link to a quick reference of all green bows than to say this item has the exact same stats as some other green. --Karlos 18:24, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * We could always do both, though it would be rather redundant, do the same thing more than necessary, and more times than needed. --Curse You 19:47, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Listing duplicates is done for skills too. Should we just link to a skills quick reference rather than saying when a skill has a duplicate? - B e X or  [[Image:Bexor.png]] 23:15, 3 June 2007 (CDT)