Talk:M.O.X.

Thoughts
A third derv hero? Hmmm... Cress Arvein 19:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, I would have thought a third Mesmer would have been a higher priority :/ --GW-RM 19:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Makes sense, though, since all of the GOLEMS are Dervs... which I have never understood. Although I'm not sure why a third Mesmer would be a priority.  [[Image:Renai Mu icon.jpg|19px]]Renai Mu [[Image:Renai Mu icon.jpg|19px]] 19:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Due to the virtue of being a core profession" was what I meant, since they have the most skills and therefore the most possible build variation --GW-RM 19:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But then you couldn't name him Lotus and get infinite energy (mana)!--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 04:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Has great synergy with Gleemax. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A fourth Ele would have been better, so you have one for each elemental type. And, contrary to above, many golems are eles. Further, why make him fleshy--that would have been a neat advantage, immune to bleed, poison and disease! GW-Susan 19:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL, that's a dumb idea. What's the point of having 4 elementalist heroes when you can only bring 3 heroes in a party?66.215.156.124 08:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL? The point is you can equip each one for different elements (I'd go with 2 fire, 1 earth, 1 water - never had a use for Air), and not have to switch runes and weapons when you need a ward ele or a maelstrom/snare ele instead of the fire nukers, which most people have 2 of. This is the reason I have my Zhed geared for fire, and Suke and Vekk both have enery storage-based weapon sets, because I change up their elements and don't want to keep the spare weapons in my stash, it's full enough.  I don't even bother with runes, either, I run Suke as earth on a major fire rune if I need earth.  So yeah, a fourth ele would have been much nicer than a derv, which I only use if I need lots of holy dmg or occasionally a meat-shield in a corpse-poor area...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 07:32, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * ZOMG RFRNCE ?!?! --Gimmethegepgun 07:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Who here actually uses their derv heroes?? - I dont & I probably never will as i prefer old school warriors with cleave for PvE moar - even though i already have Gwen & the other mesmer heroes another mes or ritualist would be cool 82.35.7.62 11:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Dervs are good when you need someone to Ordersbitch for you. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  12:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

(Reset) Mes would have made more sense as OP said, as if you notice, there are 3 of every core profession except mes. Always getting screwed over they are...the bastard child of the GW devs. --Franzwald 00:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A necromancer hero would have been very nice, particularly since MOX is pve only. 3 necros set to typical sabway builds, and one for the occasional blood magic gimmick so you don't have to rerune to be effective. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * but you already have 3 Necros - Master Of Whispers, Olias & Livia 82.35.7.62 11:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And i use my dervish heroes, mainly because i suck at warriors so i do not have a good build for them, but i really do not need three... oh well, i'll find something to do with him Bastthegatekeeper 19:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I want to ask Anet "So what is wrong with another Sin?" Assassin heroes don't do dagger chains too well, but they can run things like scythe/bow/axe sin decently. And it's not too hard to make them run a DPS Locust's Fury/Conjures/etc. build...Derv heroes are okay for just functioning as warriors, but when it comes to using Mysticism and enchantments properly, they need to be micromanaged. Which defeats the purpose. (And anyways, wouldn't you like a Raptor Hero too?) (T/C) 05:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * They use Conviction fair enough in battle to use that, and they maintain Faithful Intervention constantly, so you can fulfill all of "while enchanted" effects with that. Throw on any enchant that damages in an AoE, and they'll apply it in battle, so when faithful wears off you've still got a suitable derv in the heat of battle. I've been using MOX because I've never leveled Melonni and have yet to unlock Kahmu, and I love the big guy. Might have something to do with me vanquishing undead infested Kryta lately, but.... &mdash; Powersurge360  07:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone can use Heart of Holy Flame effectively. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Not anyone can use it with high AoE scythe damage and augment it further with big damage skills. &mdash; Powersurge360  18:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ranged (+AoE sometimes) Holy damage is win. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm
In the link to a post by Regina, she said Mox has different Avatar Forms. Interesting. --- -- (s)talkpage  13:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

He's a PvE only Dervish Hero so unless one of his forms is an M16 assault rifle, he still failz. Pubis mcfly 03:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * lol, too true xDCloud dyl 10:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I lol'ed pretty hard..--72.189.85.47 01:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Magic the Gathering?
Quoting my friend on this chrom mox mox diamond mox pearl --70.181.76.135 15:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing directly related to him (unless he's fully Chromed), besides Mox. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  16:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There are even more Mox's that you didn't mention, including a flower. They're not related. --Shadowcrest  21:50, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note the " ZOMG RFRNCE ?!?!" above :P --Gimmethegepgun 23:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Also checked the official guild wiki, they have a "Trivia" Section put up. --70.181.76.135 04:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We don't do things just because the officiwiki did, but that doesn't mean it can't be a valid note. I thought of M:tG when I saw the name, as did Giga, and there are various M:tG references scattered throughout Guild Wars already. It would help a lot to know what M.O.X. stands for. If it's like Moldy Old Xylophone, then the initials have to mean something on their own. If it actually makes sense, it could just be coincidence. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ArenaNet developers said that it's a reference to Moxon’s Master, and the MtG reference is just coincidence. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 12:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

stuff
hey. a member of my guild keeps sayin that it will take 250granite slabs and 5 ecto to awaken him and that it will take 3 months untill a'net implemet mox into the game can any1 confirm? 90.203.203.99 18:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems false, no info saying that anywhere I can see Random Time  18:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Its due today afaik.. and its for anyone who has the campaigns, so I assume it won't be somthing stupid like that. Tell him to stfu till the update is released.. &mdash;[[Image:MaySig.png]] Warw/Wick 18:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * thanks for the info.90.203.203.99 18:10, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hope it's accurate Random Time  18:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually you just go outside one of the three major cities and there he is. Its as simple as clicking. --Wet Wet Wetter 16:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

New Forms
My ass, they just reskinned him 5 times. ~Bunny 01:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Quote: "Mox's Avatar forms look different", not necessarily "good" or "interesting".[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  02:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Are we impressed?
Well, he is big, but a dervish hero? Why would we need that? Arcdash 02:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We have all professions, Anet probably choose it randomly Random Time  05:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Having four of the same profession is redundant, so that already limits you to Mesmer, Dervish, Paragon, Assassin, Ritualist. Mes would be the best in terms of useful heroes. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * give the people 2 weeks and everybody will forget that this hero exists

I wonder if his armor can be upgraded.... --◄mendel► 07:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's PvE restricted... so no need to take it too seriously. Some people will love it, others forget about it.  Nice little addition, but nothing important.  Consider it a sort of "easter egg" bonus.  Functionality wise, it would be nice to have access to 3 PvP heros of each prof.  No more will add read function, but even if they do add more than three of a class, you gain the advantages of optionally (1) being able to gear them for different build types, and (2) use the ones you just personally like more for fun.  --Mooseyfate 13:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Too bad he can't have 3 professions like some certain other GOLEMs. ;_; --72.220.205.44 22:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm upset, well not really. I don't use my derv heros anyway, so M.O.X. is just a waste of time for me. M.O.X. S.U.X. I agree with all of you. I could have used another mes or necro. Or even a rit, if you don't have EotN, then you only have 1 rit available AFTER you beat Nightfall. Oh well. Is it just me or are derv and sin heroes pretty much useless anyway? I have a sin and erv character that I really like to play, but the hero AI doesn't seem to make the derv or sin heros effective. silentbp 09-08-08

Sad
They didn't even give him a description when you acquire him --Gimmethegepgun 03:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna make a different form chart thingy.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 03:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes they did. It said "M.O.X.". Very concise description. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 03:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's too bad Avatars are idiotic on heroes because they can't use Eternal Aura, so M.O.X.'s only real distinguishing feature is wasted. Pity he doesn't launch his fists out for Wounding Strike or something. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 03:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Gallery uploaded, grenth looks best.--[[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]ìğá†ħŕášħ 04:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Quotes
I don't know exactly how he said em (hyphens and what not) but he says "I think, therefore I attack" and "Immolation is the sincerest form of flattery." Add it if it's fine to be like that until hyphens are added. &mdash; Powersurge360  06:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Varia
If I remember correctly, the quote "*I THINK IT WOULD BE BET-TER NOT TO DIE, DO NOT YOU*" he uses is from the movie I,Robot. --Atreyo 07:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

"hero unlocked" placement
Placing the image as it is now (floating on the right) means the article looks bad when the content is hidden (folded in) because the infobox pushes it down and separates it from its section. That also happens when the page is rendered with the box-type ad, and it is going to happen when the stub template is removed. The version with "Hero unlocked" on the left doesn't have this problem. I shrunk the image for that because Firefox is bugged in that it places the enumeration numbers under the image, so the enumeration has to start below that to be visible; and I see no reason why the image has to be shown in original size, it's not as if the reader gained any information by that. --◄mendel► 07:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Speaking of image sizing, can the images of the forms be uh... maybe 15-25% bigger. He's a big guy with a lot of detail, you know? I don't want to play with the sizing, but I'm not happy with the size it is now. &mdash; Powersurge360  07:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The larger image size makes the page look fat. You can click on the image to see it bigger. Could you please point out to me where the detail actually changes for the forms, I thought all that changed was the color? --◄mendel► 08:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see the breastplate detail changes, but you can't really appreciate that more with a 20% size increase. With the size as it is now, they actually fit in a row on a 1024 pixel wide window (except on IE7, where they're inexpicably spaced further apart - gotta fix that). We don't have armor galleries on any of the other hero articles. --◄mendel► 08:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not that the detail disappears, it's that now it's only viewable in squint-o-vision. And as far as clicking on it for larger views, then what's the point of having it there at all if you'd need to click on it to get anything out of it? Why not just link? (edit conflict) And as far as armor galleries, no we don't, but this seems to me to be a unique case. They could, potentially be given their own page in the way most heroes have galleries. &mdash; Powersurge360  08:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Squint-o-vision" is the size we used to have on all beast infobox images. I can see that nothing but the color changes even at that size. That includes the breastplate design changes, though I can't make out the details. --◄mendel► 08:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Golem User Manual glitch
The mission from the Golem User Manual doesn't work for me; whenever I start it from an outpost (I tried Kamadan, KC, and LA), it goes to a maguuma jungle loading screen straight to the loading screen of whatever outpost I was in, making me end up where I started. Anyone else have this problem? 69.235.227.100 10:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

possible trivia
his quote "you are the one" could be something related to the matrix trilogy? or maybe not so im asking for opinion before adding it. (Talk to me) 13:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, many movies with a "chosen one" often use that line --BeeD 14:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, slap it on there. That's the most famous movie using that quote right now anyway.--72.189.85.47 01:03, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Lyssa Avatar
the skin looks horrible, anyone else agree? I mean orange?!?!? Dean (contribs) 13:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Lyssa is the godess of safety, didn't you know? --◄mendel► 14:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

a flag up the
Something needs to be done about the flag in each Avatar image, it looks like part of the form. 16:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I already commented on Giga's page because he uploaded them. I agree that teh flag is a problem. &mdash;♥ Jedi ♥ Rogue ♥ 17:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The one thing it demonstrates nicely is that the Grenth avatar has a skull-type hollow eye. --◄mendel► 18:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Use the party flag instead of hero flag, problem solved. RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 02:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Clockwork Scythe
Looks like MOX carries one as his weapon. Are you able to upgrade this thing or add a elemental snathe (dont have one to add)?(75.134.131.172 19:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC))
 * You can add an elemental weapon, but sadly, no inscription. -- mrguildboi (:  22:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Attack of the beastmen!
AoG MOX IS A GANMEN!!!! xD 67.234.7.172 19:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Pierce the heavens etc [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Not exactly a definative face on those that AoG, those I want to see GATTAI between MOX'sTwilightRhapsody 00:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Could have worked in PvP

 * Size. Make M.O.X. smaller. Zhed is rather large and often gets in the way, as well as Flesh Golems. He could have been easily scaled down to be an adequate size.
 * Weapons. Any player will be able to assess what type of weapon his is using either once he attacks or by how he behaves. (rushing into combat, melee weapon. staying far back, bow, back/midline caster weapon or spear.) Moving on, they could have had him use every weapon very plainly like any normal character would. This excludes scythes and hammers which could be assessed by making either up and down swings or side to side swings. If not that, simple skill damage would be easy enough to identify.
 * Avatars. Simple to recognize as they are right now. To have made them more obvious: Balthizar, red color + Red Shoulders would be easy enough to identify. Dwayna, Blue forearms and a blue mantle upon its chest. Grenth, Black hooded cape/cloak would be instantly recognizable. Lyssa, color pattern as is is extremely recognizable, to make it more obvious add 1 eye to each side of his head and a purple waste vestment to flow behind him. Melandru, Simply add spikes coming out of his head and back that look like roots.

This would be a relativly simple fix, though adding the changes to the avatar states would take a little bit of time, the major issue is his size, which can be simply fixed by making him about the size of Goren, only a little taller and/or wider.--72.189.85.47 00:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

MOX all professions..
i know this has been stated several times but exactly why a dervish? why not all the professions? it is a golem so he doesnt have any standard dervish clothing.. he changes colors (obviously) to the profession of the avatar he is currently in... so couldnt he change colors to the profession he is currently in? i mean its plausible is it not? i have seen alot of people discuss this so far. i mean hes not useful being a dervish.. but he would be so much cooler if he was different.. right?
 * It would be cool, but... they planned Razah that way, but for some reason decided against it. Whatever the reasons were, they probably apply to MOX too.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  01:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Razah wasn't planned that way, it was just undecided what he was going to be at the time of release. &mdash; Powersurge360  01:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, they made it sound like that's what they were planning. The Manuscripts say "Profession: Variable", not "Profession: Unknown". That implies changing professions.[[Image:Entrea Sumatae.png|Entrea Sumatae]] Entrea   [Talk]  01:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought along the same lines as Entrea. --Shadowcrest  01:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Alot of people did. &mdash; Powersurge360  01:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "i know this has been stated several times"? Then why are you asking AGAIN? Variable professions where planed for Razah, but for some reason they proved too difficult to implement and thus where scraped. The engine probably can't handle changing primary professions in player-like data (heroes are very similar to players with weapons, runes, skills...). A Dervish can be a very useful character, you just have to not run Sabway. (Seriously, even if it where a Mesmer people would just whine that he's not a Necro so they won't use him anyway). Please stop bringing up the topic of his profession again. It's very annoying. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 01:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dervishes are not useful in pve without pve-only skills. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) *cough* &mdash; Powersurge360  01:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dervishes do wonderful damage, AoE conditions, and can tank fairly, especially if you use an "of Defense" upgrade which, in combination with Conviction is 99 armor versus everything while enchanted. &mdash; Powersurge360  01:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (big EC) Let me re-phrase that: "Dervishes are a lot more useful in PvE if they have PvE-only skills". Yes, same can be said for other professions. You don't need Eternal Aura that badly. &mdash; Poki#3 [[Image:Poki.jpg|19px|My Talk Page :o]], 01:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Heroes' lack of judgment prevents them from being tanks (which I never use anymore) or spreading conditions efficiently. 01:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Judge for them, set them to aggressive, flag them in with prot spirit slapped on, and call your targets. I guarantee you, he won't abandon the target until you call another or it dies. You can't make a "true" tank in that it exclusively soaks up damage, but dervishes spam their attack skills beautifully. The class that botches the job is Assassin. Also, Murdock says that the profession was originally intended to be variable. I got false information somewhere along the lines. Sorry about that, lol &mdash; Powersurge360  01:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I dubbed my M.O.X., E.F.G. : Epic Fail Golem. --- 87.208.78.61 10:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Needs Buff
He really does. Hero dervishes are used so rarely that making a 3rd one was just useless. TBH, since hes PvE only, he should be able to use all of your pve skills at your rank. If they did that he would be decent. That or give him the G.O.L.E.M. 2.0 skills. 69.143.6.8 02:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A-Net is not very popular since the whole Ursan tragedy which cost them a lot of adult players. Even though they finally brought Ursan into balance 13 months later; those folks are just not coming back. That coupled with Regina's inability to be nice has got A-net doing stuff which caters to thier new player base, which is much much much younger..... Dervish look cool and are therefore popular with the types of players that prefer to avoid playing the game rather than actually earn things. I think offering all the Guild Wars campaigns and expansions for roughly the price that one previously cost, and making little useless elitist eye candy items like MOX is probably a good strategy for A-net as they move into Guild Wars 2, as thier Adult playerbase is going to be extremely weak due to the new A-net philosophy that any amount of actual substance or difficulty makes for a poor game. I'd expect more useless garbage like MOX to be flooded into the GW Universe before GW2. It doesn't really matter though, nothing A-net does will bring back the portion of thier playerbase that Ursan alienated, and the game has been dumbed down enough now so that there is no intensity anymore anyways. Anytime you have trouble you can use a summon stone and some other consumables, or just go Ursan God Mode. I do agree that a 3rd Dervish Hero is pretty useless, but GW broke when EoTN came out anyways, so what difference does it really make?72.221.118.93 04:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)Wildcard


 * Interesting insight, but so true... It's impossible to find a group for an elite mission like Urgoz anymore, you basically have to find a guild/alliance that does it regularly, or you don't stand a chance. Everyone is just standing around begging for free runs everywhere and asking for destroyer core farming builds, nobody wants a challenging game anymore.  But I do think that many of the mature players who have now left GW1 will return to GW2 to at least give it a shot.  We'll see what Anet will do, if anything, to keep them.  Hopefully they won't replace interesting content with elitist farming garbage they now call titles...  The first few were kind of a neat idea, but 44 filled with crap like Zaishen and Gamer? They lost me there...  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 16:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At a certain point, you have to use player-imposed restrictions to make the game challenging. And then it isn't fun anymore. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Remember how much fun this game was when you could get a viable pug anywhere you go? Don't have to wait for guildies to come online, don't have to force everyone to ping their skills, the game was balanced enough that it was easy to make something usable without end-game elites and high-ranking titles...  And when you got to a challenging area, it wasn't full of noobs who got a run there just because they can, people actually knew what was going on much more than they do now...  I miss that.  Now, if you want to go to UW, you have to be one of the 3 latest bot-builds and magically know exactly what to do the first time, or forget about it.  And half of the towns around the world look nothing more than Jade Quarry, because everyone just gets ran through everything and then goes to farm the same thing as everyone else, achieving nothing more than the next exploited skill nerf. This game is almost reminiscent of every society that ever exised in RL: it gets a good start, gets a little better shortly after, and then, the more advanced it gets after that, the more to hell it goes, turning into a cut-throat anarchy. Human nature, I guess?  RoseOfKali [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] 17:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I will concede the game has fallen from its glory days, but at the same time I can still find viable PUGs for many things if I need to...My Heroes and I can usually take care of any undercompensated players. I have not tried this for difficult areas in awhile, but I imagine it's not that bad. For Elite areas and such, though, you're pretty much on the money. You either run the FotM for that place, or Ursan. :\ Maybe ANet ought to enable full H/H parties for them. It would still be pretty challenging, I think - maybe even more so? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, in NM all those Elite Areas can be completed with a random H/H team... Just need a semi-dedicated tank/puller :P Rather dull after a while, but still easily doable. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You can get into Urgoz/The Deep/DoA with full H/H? o_O [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but you CAN easily do The Deep/Urgoz with 4 players and 8 heroes for the deep, and 3 players with 9 heroes for urgoz.76.175.144.6

economy crasher
Blah, the rune trader is sold out of every Dervish rune and insignia except the Major and Superior varieties, which no one buys anyways. Curse you, M.O.X., I want to equip Kahmu! (T/C) 10:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh - sounds like I should cash in! Random <font color="Black">Time  10:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I recall having at least 15 minor runes on my Derv heroes. Time for cash, lol? Also, Sup/Major Scythe and maybe Myst are sold out too. Real PvE scrubs use sups. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  11:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * *cough* &mdash; Powersurge360  20:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * ...MMs? I don't see how that has anything to do with MOX nor the way he affected the rune trader. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "Real PvE scrubs use superior runes". I've yet to meet a MM who doesn't. Being assish, mostly, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360  20:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * ...I use Superior Runes.. --[[Image:OrgXSignature.jpg]] 20:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Most (generalisation) MMs use sups so they can have that one extra minion, true. Using a sup for one minion and ~20max hp on the minions is for scrubs tbh :P Better off with 14, so you can survive a hit or 2. Also, Org: Scrub ;) A sup really doesn't help a lot... -75hp for one point of damage per spell, 20 max hp on your minions or 5 hp healed. MAjors are fine since they're reduced to 35. Sure, it doesn't help a whole lot, but round numbers are nice to look at. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Shallow assumption for MM's. The higher level of the minions means they do more damage, take less damage, take fewer criticals from foes higher levels than then, have more health, and have a greater quantity. Slap on Dark Bond, and their health is your health. &mdash; Powersurge360  20:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Crit rate doesn't change a lot when the foes are still at least 5 levels higher, and for HM make that 10. Same goes for damage taken etc. The greatest benefit is one more minion, which can explode. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]-- (s)talkpage  20:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Large sample results in large benefits, even if it's statisticly (for each individual minion) unfavorable. Same reason Shelter sees use in Hard mode, those are hits you don't have to take. &mdash; Powersurge360  20:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My Bone Minions are almost as powerful at 16 Death Magic than my Bone Horrors at 14 Death Magic. Plus, lower max health means less sacrifice, which is easier on your monks. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I remember that being a main reason why people use Ghial's Staff over the other best option (I forget what the other staff was, but it provided +60hp). Less health = less sacrifice from Blood of the Master.
 * ...But isn't this quite far off the original topic? Dervish runes. There are plenty of people who go the full 12 + 1 + 3 on Scythe Mastery, which is probably acceptable in PvE... so I can understand those selling out quick. Most other players are jumping on the minor Myst. and Scythe runes, and normally either Earth or Wind runes. How's the rune trader looking now? I haven't checked yet, but I'd guess the rune prices would be on the way back down by now... --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  00:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sup Scythe was never sold out, the other runes are still...elsewhere. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes it was, when I checked Friday night the only Dervish runes available were Forsaken insignia and Major/Superior Earth/Wind. Windwalker's insignia were gone, all Minors were gone, and all levels of Scythe and Mysticism were gone.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 05:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It must have recovered fast. Btw that's probably the same Forsaken insignia I sold to trader the day M.O.X. came out :P Speculating is srs bsns. I wish I could have been around for that one epic time where ANet was forced to reset all the traders because of market crash the government seizes Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to avert financial crisis for millions. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I remember that... good times. Spent like an hour partying in LA d10 waiting for our district to get "nuked." --Macros 00:54, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Equipping Weapons
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this or not, but has anyone equipped a shield to M.O.X yet. It actually shows him with the shield unlike with other weapons when it doesnt show him wielding anything. It looks silly though, it looks like the shield is impaled right through his hand. Arthas Shadowsong 17:20, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

HoM
You can put M.O.X. in ur HoM without actually upgrading his armor, I haven't tried using any armor upgrades yet, dont have any left, but from the fact that he goes up without upgrades I'm guessing they don't work. Any confirmation? Bastthegatekeeper 19:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * kk, i just checked for deldrimor and brotherhood, no luck on armor upgrades Bastthegatekeeper 19:18, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Regina confirmed somewhere that there were no hero armor upgrades for M.O.X., and that yes, you would still be able to display him with no problem. Perhaps we'll see an upgrade released in the future, but in all honesty, there's only so much you can do to a Golem's armor... and considering any upgrade would have to be done sixfold (for the avatar colors), I doubt it'll ever happen. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  03:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just make a quest or challenge mission where you get rewarded with a Machine Conversion card, and you're all set. The different Avatar "skins" are basically just color differences, so it shouldn't be too hard to make a separate model of M.O.X. with upgraded armor, and run that through the same reskinning algorithm. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Make a single armor upgrade that lets you choose any of the Avatar forms to have without actually bringing the crappy elite. It could be switched at the Hero Armor NPC, no reskinning would be involved, and M.O.X. would fail ever-so-slightly less. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Green Gear/Gold Battery/Blue Screw/Red Screw etc. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I happen to like M.O.X., I'll thank you!&mdash; Powersurge360  06:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe the line is "thank you very much". But you're welcome. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I heard it somewhere as "I'll thank you", and it sounded much cooler. Don't begrudge me method when meaning is perfectly clear, lol. &mdash; Powersurge360  18:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But it wasn't, on my mother. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Hitchhikers Reference
His quote, *I HAVE A MIL-LION I-DE-AS, BUT THEY ALL POINT TO CER-TAIN DEATH*, is a reference to Marvin the Manically depressed robot in Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Not sure about the movie, but it was in the book. I added it to Trivia. --Joseph Leito 13:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Woo! All hail the Guide! Rico the Spirited 16:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * <font color="Gold">DON'T PANIC . <3 --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]]--  (s)talkpage  16:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Who took my towel?
 * [[Image:Simple Thievery.jpg]] is really an image of someone taking your towel! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha...oh wow.--72.189.85.47 21:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Moxon reference???
in trivia i c it saying M.O.X. is a refence to a short story about a guy called moxon??? i'm going to try to be polite about his and i apologize if i fail, but... i have herd the word mox in a handful of games, read a sci-fi book: main aliens were called Mo-x (can't remember to book title) up there tward the top we see a few ppl alrdy guessing mox reffrences. i think we can assume this is not a refference to any 1 thing. i also beleive that ppl should stop calling refference to 3-4 letter words, at that small of a word i can almost garuntee it has been used many times b4. i'm going to stop now b4 i get myself in trouble. Akbaroth 08:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It's already been confirmed as a reference to Moxon’s Master, the other speculation was from before the confirmation. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  08:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For future reference, here's a link to the confirmation: [link] --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  08:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Golem sex
MOX is identified as "he" in the Golem User Manual. That measn Zinn thought of it as male, but it really isn't, it it? I mean, people anthromorphise things, but unless the game interface refers to the bot as "he", I'll think of it (and the other golems) as sexless objects. --◄mendel► 00:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ... If I hadn't read your RV earlier, I can not tell you how weird seeing "New section: Golem sex" looks like in RC. I guess the rule so far has been to keep the in-game information, so I suppose we should here too. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  00:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, for a moment I thought mendel had authored a fanfic. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I really didn't need to see this header in RC before going off to bed... :\ [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, studies show that you did. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 01:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But Defiant Elements says that 67% of statistics are made up. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 02:16, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I had thought that this header would incite responses ;), but unfortunately it only inspired talk. Couldn't you have at least added a tiny bit of response, like "I guess he's a thing" or something? I could've used "Golem gender", but that would've been boring. --◄mendel► 09:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The only way I know to make the game refer to a hero with a third-person pronoun (him/her) is ctrl+clicking on an enchantment they are self-maintaining, but that is influenced by your character's gender, not the hero's (see here, I thought there was a more lengthy discussion of the issue on another hero's page but I can't find it). Is there some other way of determining a hero's gender?  If not, then you might as well think of all the heroes as sexless objects, since the game can't decide.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 13:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not that much of an English-speaking miracle, but in Dutch you refer to towns with either "it" (usually negative) or "she". Something like a house would be "he". Why? It's just a rule. Some things are referred to as females. All other things would be referred to as males. I don't know if this applies to English, tho. Also:

--- -- (s)talkpage  13:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At Ishmael, doesn't the fact that the golem manual refers to MOX as male count as enough to say he/it is male?
 * At Mendel: I responded in my first comment, that we (imo) should go with in-game. --<font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  14:54, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Mendel countered that already by stating that Zinn was simply anthropomorphizing MOX - the object doesn't really have a gender, the person has simply applied one to the object in order to make it less objectified (similar to how sailors refer to their ships and gunslingers to their guns as "she", or Viper's example of the Dutch calling houses "he" (or so I assume, that might just be the gender-ness of the language)). I could go either way, really, but since there is an in-game precedent for calling MOX "him", even if it is anthropomorphizing him, I think it would be best to follow that.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 15:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "Razah does not have gender. It was created, not born." Yet everyone refers to Razah as 'he' anyway. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For Razah, we actually have in-game precedent for calling it "it" - Image:RazahUnlocked.jpg - and the reward dialogue for Finding a Purpose does the typical "him... or it, rather" waffling. Bleh, it's just a big bunch of semantics that there's no real answer to, unless you go the truly literal way and call them both "it" since, as DGCollard noted, they don't have willies.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Even though referred to as "it", Razah seems to have chosen a male physique, what with triangular upper body (wide shoulders, small hips); I wouldn't be surprised if it had a reproduction of male reproductive equipment. With M.O.X., it is the other way around: referred to as "he" by Zinn, I'm fairly sure M.O.X. lacks a male tool, unless you count tools. My suggestion is to go with "it" in the more factual sections of articles, and not correct editors on he/it in sections such as "Walkthrough" or "Trivia". Shadowcrest, I apologize for discounting your reply. I plead tiredness. --◄mendel► 22:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Spanish gives everything gender.....everything... *shudder* <font color ="#73C2FB" size="3px" face ="mistral">Lost-Blue 23:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

All Romantic languages do. 23:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * C'est la verite. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Cylons
BY YOUR COM-MAND*" is a reference to the Cylons from the original battlestar galactica movie (217.214.73.156, 18 September 2008)

Well, the similarity is quite uncanny - from the crest on the head to the singular eye patch. --◄mendel► 10:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * lol i love how someone just owned me and replaced my old post with this one XD
 * and that's not the original battlestar galactica movie as there exists no such thing
 * "By your command." is a phrase that is said by the Cylons in both the original and the next battlestar galactica series 70.52.45.55 23:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks like duel core golems have been around quite a bit longer than we thought...
[]67.176.179.93 04:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's excellent. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 04:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

PvP glitch
Okay I've taken my M.O.X. into the Training Arenas, and it gave me two things: One, it kept saying in my messages that "You may not enter PvP matches while M.O.X. is in your party, but I kept getting in anyway :P Secondly, there is a slight, yet VERY disturbing glitch with M.O.X.. His inner core is missing and is replaced by wireframe. lol Proof: http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw403kp4.jpg M.O.X. is hollow inside!!!!!1!! hehe --//<font color="Green">Alcedo Storysparrow \\ 13:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ^Noticed all that yesterday. Also, M.O.X should be usable in Zaishen Challenge and Elite prz. <font color="#FF44AA">♥ <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="turquoise">Mis <font face="vivaldi" size="3" color="orange">fate <font color="#FF44AA">♥ 16:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Health
Why cant MOX have a heap of HP like ROX POX and NOX. Apparently he is meant to be superior to them but he dies 500 times faster.--58.161.129.74 09:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * MOX is smarter. --◄mendel► 12:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd rather have R/P/NOX as a Hero anyways. GG PvE (again). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Doh
K, added a link in the near the bottom to Data at Memory Alpha, but I have no idea how to do that with a wikia reference... anyone wanna correct it?