User talk:Entropy/Archive 27

New Project
I propose we publish a tiers list for the monsters of Guild Wars. Seeing as this is a huge number of monsters, maybe we could limit this to just special enemies like bosses. Tiers would be campaign-centered, so we'd have one for Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North. I know that I already did this with a poll (which had ~100? votes) but an official unofficial list would be fun too. (T/C) 05:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That comes dangerously close to build wars, although levels and monster skills would also come into play... it's an interesting thought. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 05:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I voted
--◄mendel► 15:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ahh the irony... voted. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 21:28, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * See, it's really ironic because on the poll for comparing strongest bosses, 114 people voted...and on the poll for whether INAFR or LAME was more famous, that was 91 votes. Right now there is only a pansy 30 or so. :p Clearly, people care more about Guild Wars than the democratic process! [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Or those polls existed for a longer time, thus allowing more people to vote. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ...in America. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ...in general. Bosses and INAFR/LAME have been there for a multitude of days, if not weeks, and the "VOTE YES OR DO NOT VOTE" has been there for a mere day. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * But...this is the public forums. It's like, me that we're talking about. D: [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * BTW Yu-Gi-Oh abridged reference. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 12:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nowai. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 15:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Oversighters
I've been meaning to ask about this for a while, but could we bug Kyle to have some (or all) of the admins added to the Oversighters group? That would make it real easy for us to selectively delete certain excessively vulgar vandalisms like this one, instead of having to delete the whole article, then restore all but that one revision. &mdash;Dr Ishmael 18:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not even know that such a feature existed. To know that such a power is being denied to me because of silly usergroups is unacceptable. I will most certainly go bug Kyle about it.
 * ...oh yeah, and you other sysops can get it too, I suppose. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Brought up at Admin_noticeboard before. --JonTheMon 18:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I thought it had been, but couldn't remember where. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 18:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I knew it sounded familiar. This also would need a new userbox, by the way. Something with a link to Overseer Boktek or such. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * User talk:KyleH. Sorry :p [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's evidence - not to be oversighted away. It's hidden away enough from the kiddies unless some clever people link to it O.O --◄mendel► 23:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Evidence? For what?  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * For blocks and such. --◄mendel► 23:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think any evidence is needed for that username. >.> And the deleted revision itself still shows up on the user's contributions, see Special:Contributions/KyleH; the fact that it was hidden would be evidence enough, I'd think.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 23:54, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

i dont get it
how did u make evryone <3 u so much? whoru neway?? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.113.154.83 (contribs).
 * No u. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 21:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Random note: I like how /. calls all unregistered posters "Anonymous Coward". Maybe we should modify our unsigned template to do that, too...  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 21:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Needs moar GW:AGF / GW:YAV. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Awww. Well, how about "Anonymous Person-Who-Might-Be-a-Coward-But-Might-Just-Have-Forgotten-to-Log-In"? :P  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 22:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No one ever "forgets" to log in, they choose to do so. Also, I see what you did there. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 22:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So slashdot is anti-4chan? [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember anons are braver in a way. Showing your IP is way more dangerous than having a username,and they still have talkpages.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 00:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Also remember that most people don't realize that, so we have anons that think they're being smarter by only showing their IP. And anons could be using proxies, too.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 00:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I am quite impressed with your conduct. You are the epitome of what a sysop should be; not perfect, but willing to make mistakes and learn from them. Even when you're wrong on an issue (which isn't often tbh), you take the time to describe in detail why you came to the conclusion you did; that helps everyone involved understand the situation, and reduces the chances someone will be overly offended by your actions.

I was afraid you'd be hurt by my leaving; I tried not to insinuate you in my accusations, but it might have happened regardless. I do not think you cause GuildWiki any harm; rather, you're one of the few users left who really understand what a wiki means and what it needs to succeed. Hell, people on this wiki don't even understand that, so I'd say you're doing pretty good. I wish you (and PanSola and Gem) luck in keeping GuildWiki a friendly and fun place to contribute. -Auron 04:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

^k thar. I win. End of discussion. (T/C) 10:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Air of Superiority
Wikia totally wins over ANet for two things:
 * 1) Being able to embed YouTube videos.
 * 2) The almighty Poll extention.

"You never appreciate something until you have lost it." <- Believe it! (T/C) 10:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Prodding ANet tech ftw? These extensions can be installed on any MW install, you know. But then again they're probably IM-worthy, so I dunno. --◄mendel► 10:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC) & 10:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * But it's spreading democracy! Surely that is an important goal to ANet? :) I'm just saying it is kind of ironic because the GWW has always prided itself on having the superior technology and firepower (which they usually do), but in this case we have them beat. And I can't pass up that kind of opportunity. :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 14:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm very aware of that Ereanor; I've said it myself before that votes (~= polls) mean absolutely nothing towards consensus and meaningful discussion. That's why I have always opposed them pretty strongly for anything that mattered (builds, RfA, probably some other things).
 * Teh point was more how I cannot use polls to interact with the community/make statements/be crazy on GWW/GW2W as I use them currently on my userpage. For example, I really wanted to port over my "DEMOCRACY IN ACTION" thing and see if anyone screamed at me for a policy violation. :p And of course there are just more people in general there, so a srs bsns question such as "Split builds with 3 attribs is gud" could get more decisive results. Finally, even if everyone on GuildWiki agrees that an NPC should be named after me, that doesn't do a whole lot of good since ANet doesn't check here (as far as we know, anyway) :) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 14:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * GWW not having the polling or embedding features doesn't mean it's technologically inferior; the fact that they're not available there is because it hasn't been requested for/it's been rejected (I believe we've had a discussion about youtube embedding and decided against it). In fact, the only reason GuildWiki has it is because Wikia has it for every one of their wikis :P. Wikia's given GuildWiki way more trouble than ArenaNet's given GWW :) -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  18:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * *GuildWiki's given Wikia way more trouble than GWW's given ANet, tbvh :) I thought about it some more, and considering the general crowd on GWW (this is not directed at anyone in particular) I could see how the polls may get abused. We had fears about embedding YouTube videos here, but so far they have proven to be mostly baseless...the only one I can remember is that guy who kept putting video on Gate of Madness (mission). Other than that people have just been using it to share and bond n shit like that. So it's mostly harmless. That's my thinking anyway. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 18:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen here, I'd agree. However, GWW has less of a socialising air to it (not to say that it doesn't exist, but things are just more.. GW/wiki-related and less MyGWWSpace-related.) -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  18:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen, socialism, and therefore communism, are the best government forms that exist, because it's all about who you are and what you can do and not what you have or who's a$$ you have to lick. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 19:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That is a fascinating observation. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 20:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You know what the best example of functioning socialism is? Roads and the rules relating to them --Gimmethegepgun 20:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about socialism there, btw. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  21:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * YOU ARE NOW. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * THIS! IS! GUILDWIKI (AAAAAHHHHHHHH)!!! Original topics do not exist, and headers are largely to separate by date, not by subject --Gimmethegepgun 01:30, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So I heard spam pyramids will be back in style with the spring.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg]]îğá turkey 03:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * O
 * Rly?
 * It's
 * already
 * spring
 * where
 * I
 * live
 * [[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 15:20, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the population lives north of the equator though, so you're really in fall, it just so happens that it's getting warmer --Gimmethegepgun 15:32, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm south >_> Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 15:37, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I live in south america you wiseass lol.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 16:57, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

democracy
Polls are just opium for the masses. Polls can be used to gauge the effects of democratic debate, but they can't replace it. --◄mendel► 11:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Poll moved to userpage


 * "Sí" goes with the "´".[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 19:04, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Give me a context. Democracy theory or practice? In practice, they do replace it. --Alf&#39;s Hitman 19:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * oO(Marx ain't seen nothin' yet.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:23, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * He's right, but we can all wish they could --Gimmethegepgun 02:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Quote: Polls, like votes, don't solve anything; and a wiki is not a democracy. Famous words from every smart leader from Tanaric on down. --◄mendel► 05:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I never said I was trying to solve important Wiki Issues, nor did I imply that the Wiki as a whole is run by democratic principles. (Besides, you know that I and my talkpage am exempt from all policies and precedents, including my own. After all, I've taken up the cross of democracy. Surely you're not an enemy of freedom?) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:47, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My existence is testament to freedom. --◄mendel► 05:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But it's not yet an act of rebellion, so you need to try harder. <3 [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 05:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Mendel doesn't need no stinking causes.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]îğá turkey 05:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But he does need causeways - what would Germany be without the Autobahn? Completely inaccessible, that's what. And in any case, IRC jokes fail on wiki. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 06:13, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Wat
I had this theory that all the frequent visitors to IRC had over 9,000 edits, and that would have made for a great userbox, but it seems that only Warwick and myself qualify by any decent margin. D: The Doctor has enough for two, though, at 21,000+ and counting. >.> Then again I still wonder if the editcount is broken or not... (T/C) 08:37, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you count M.Marvin for me, I have that. --◄mendel► 15:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * !! I completely forgot to also count socks and shoes. D: [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that didn't do too much, but I learned that the Doctor's bot also has enough edits all by itself at 12,000+. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Why am I popular
Go on, tell me. Why do you love me? How did I get to where I am today? Why am I trusted? Why do you let me get away with anything? :)

This isn't a callout to boost self-esteem or anything like that. It arose from a question that Salad asked me, and that neither I nor Mendel could answer satisfactorily: "Why does the community love you? >.> I'm just curious how it came out."

This is a serious business question, so I'll be removing anything I deem irrelevant. (That means no 9,000+ contribs references etc.) Answers in the space between the lines, please.

Oh, and just to make it fun, best answer (decided by me of course) gets you a...prize.

(T/C) 08:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I found my answer satisfactory. But we'll see, I guess. --◄mendel► 14:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oooh, opinions... I guess it partially has to do with the fact you are one of the Old Wise Wikians, and nigh everyone has your pages watchlisted (either exclusively, or as one of the many hundreds of interesting possibilities). You also have a reputation as reasonable, sociable and popular (vicious circle, mrite). Humans are flock animals, and when a lot of people use a page as a public forum, other people will join. It's just like suicide bombing buying a popular brand of clothes/accesories/etc.
 * Oh, and to answer question 1 and 4: Probably cause you're a woman. Human nature/instincts and stuff ;)
 * You got to the point where you are because you didn't /rage nor switch over to GWW, but stuck to the smaller fanbase userbase.
 * You're as trusted as you are because you are often enough right, and if you aren't, you're the first to admit it (well, unless you get EC'd). You can formulate opinions and reasons very well (WoT fight go go), and generally refrain from flaming (up to a certain point, I guess).
 * Sure, it doesn't explain everything, but how's that possible, for a human? Only Ishy and Wizardboy can answer all of that;they're beyond human.
 * Or, to put it simply: Because we can. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  15:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Expect no long answer from humble Linebeck. I simply like you because you are a friendly person in an administrative position, which is a rare commodity. You have always been kind in instances when we have spoken and I respect you for that. You usually deal with problems in a short and sweet manner, without much fanfare. Oh, well I suppose that was a bit long. Not as long as Vipers so I'm counting it as a win. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 16:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Mostly what Viper said. Basically, you're Auron minus the asshattery and plus the wisdom to realize that you're not always right.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And female. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 17:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the (lack of) asshattery is a bigger factor than gender. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 17:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is true, but gender is indeed something else that sets her apart from Auron. I was being....thorough, I suppose is the word? [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 17:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Facetious is the word you are looking for. [[Image:Maui_sig.png]] 18:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You suffer from a rare condition called leadership. Wich, contrary to popular belief, has a lot less to do with yourself, and a lot more to do with us, your followers. I'll go out on a limb here, but I'd guess you don't always find yourself in such a position (as in, situations other than the wiki, or even inside it at times). And that's what leadership is, a position; there are no "born leaders", nor can a person just become one by fulfilling certain conditons (like, as it is commonly put, ppl skills, strong personality, etc). In other words, it's the result of our interactions, we put you there, you put us here, you let us put you there, we let you put us here. The decisions we make and the actions we take together happen that way because that's the way we have historically constructed our leader-followers relationship. How that came to be is a bot-job that we probably won't get into (our beloved DrIshy might get into doing that reasearch lol), but even so, it is irrelevant. What's important is that we love you and trust you, and thanks to that we can achieve our goals together. Such a state of things is actually so fragile (despite the general view) that taking advatage of it's contingency is far more necessary than digging into it's historicity and causes. It's very unlikely that we'll find the causes of the phenomena in question, because the variables are many and much complex. And even if we do find them, as incomplete as that would probably be, there won't much to learn from it that we wouldn't better learn from our present.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 17:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think declaring yourself to be female on the internet, plus having a pink sig, had a huge contributing factor in attracting people's attention. If we discover pink life on the moon, I'm pretty certain at least half the folks flocking your userpage will paying attention to the moon instead. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 21:53, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If we discover pink life on the moon, I don't think it being pink will be why we pay attention to it :p --Shadowcrest  21:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's just a retarded metaphor for a lol-worthy mistaken theory.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 21:58, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Pink wouldn't be the sole reason, but pink life on the moon would draw significantly more attention than green life on Mars, or even green life on the moon. The color helps attract attention to something most ppl do not expect to exist. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 22:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right. We should change night vision to display pink tones instead of green ones.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 22:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You often are all over the place here, almost every discussion page i go to has a post by you on it, though i don't know u all that well u still remind me of some1 i know on my vent server, Sri, trust me, that is a very good thingAkbaroth 19:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how me being facetious is a reason to like me, but whatever floats your boat. <3
 * Doctor - the only thing I take issue with is realize that you're not always right. Because, you know, I'm always right. Just sometimes I'm more right than others. :D
 * So far, Ereanor wins, in my opinion. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Maui's comment was directed to Possessed, who said "[yada]thorough ,I suppose is the word?" --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Committed censorship Fixed an obvious lack of indenting. Please follow this format to avoid future confusion (for me, rather). [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

/spellfail: "Her userpage smells of rich mahogeny."

 * Mahogany. &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 14:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You just had to do that, didn't you? >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 15:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Her userpage smells of rich androgeny.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 18:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Biting Was Ereanor. ;) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Btw, happy International Day Against Gender Violance.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]reanor 21:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

D:
I actually did have important stuff to say. Wtb irc moar gogo etc --Shadowcrest  20:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is one of those times when you come off as an ass to me. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 20:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you read the rest of what I said? I thought it made it very clear I was joking :/ --<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  20:24, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In wikiworld, adding "lol" replaces the facial expression that in RL says "I'm joking". Don't forget.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 21:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol lol? [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:36, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

New Bureaucrat
Coming soon. Keep your eyes peeled. (T/C) 22:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You do like keeping us in suspense! <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  22:20, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Like a Hitchcock movie.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 22:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * What a coincidence, I'm gonna see Psycho right now... --Alf&#39;s Hitman 22:37, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 50k says its not me :D!--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]<font color="Black">îğá <font color="Brown">turkey 22:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll raise you 10 and say 70k 60k says its not me. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 23:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If we suppose that a Bureacrat should come from the current admin team, then there is nobody suitable to replace Entropy entire. That means the present team of admins and regular users should get started taking over some of Entropy's taks, like welcoming new users and such. Maybe you, Entropy, could give us a list what you're currently doing that you would like to not longer do, and we could sort of divide the jobs up amongst ourselves? --◄mendel► 23:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Welcoming new users? I thought only Eloc did that unnecessary job. I certainly hope it's not really one of Entropy's acknowledged taks.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 23:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My editcount isn't high enough to use the Welcome Template yet. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about templteas (ugh!) ? New users want to get noticed and get engaged about edits they made or stuff they wrote on their userpage, and Entropy notices a lot of them. --◄mendel► 00:07, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Only the ones who break policy, tbh [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Things like welcoming new users isn't a bureaucrat-specific task. If Entropy herself does it, that's fine, but it's wrong to think that it's part of the role. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  00:24, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ^ Besides, people like Warwick or Viper welcome more new users than I ever have. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 00:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Pling, you are missing the point. If it were part of the Bureaucrat role, the sysops couldn't do it. All the Bcrat really needs to do is a) promote sysops and b) kick sysops who can't get along even when the others are helping. PanSola can handle that fine by himself even on wikibreak if he turns email notice for his talkpage on. Entropy does much, much more as part of her job, and it's those things she does that the sysops need to be taking care of.
 * And the welcoming was just a badly chosen example. --◄mendel► 00:31, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Replying to mendel, I believe the list of Bcrat stuff that Entropy no longer does (or at least plans to retire from) would be the promotion of admins. Same reason when Entropy decided to promote me IMO.  I just happens to be too liberal when it comes to what I consider should be empowered to users, and thus ironically to appear too conservative in deciding when we actually need more admins, plus I'm not an active user (I just keep my eyes on the RC but don't edit much).  With Auron removed, it does make sense to me to consider looking into adding additional Bcrat(s). -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 00:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Exposure
LOL. <strong style="color: black;">reanor 23:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The unicorn says Melandru is not a virgin. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 23:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Now we know what Melandru is hoping for.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 23:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Balthazar called, he says he can't make it tonight.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Turkey!]]<font color="Black">îğá <font color="Brown">turkey 23:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Bot
FYI you changed urself to a bot --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 03:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "Oops" [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Bwahaha, I can still see your edits in my watchlist. --[[image:GEO-logo.png]]<font color="#237d00"> Jïörüjï Ðērākō.> <font color="#237d00">.cнаt^  04:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Only you can stop minor edits
I'm turning off the "Mark edits as minor by default" option from now on. Wise words from PanSola: "it's worse to major a minor edit than minor a major one". I think we have basically broken the Minor/Major edit difference because too many of us have that option enabled and we forget about it. For a new user, the distinction is all but meaningless now, since 99% of all edits in RC are minor now (except those that are not minor or major, such as administrative actions or image uploading).

Are you with me?! (T/C) 14:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

About bots
It seems that for an account that has the bot flag, all their edits are marked bot.

For most users, every once in a while they probably end up making some edits which ought to be botlike...for example, let's say that you change your signature icon (the filename is different). To go back and manually adjust your signature is a botworthy task which no one is interested in seeing anyway. Another example would be for moving users to their new GW- names, or adding tags, etc.

So I was wondering if perhaps accounts with the bot flag could get something like the "minor edit" button: for any given edit, they could mark it as "bot". This would let people perform these sorts of edits without having a true bot account. To me, it doesn't make sense to have a bot account for non-automated tasks and sporadic edits.

I understand that this would be a fundamental change to how the bot flag works; it's basically coding a whole new feature. There are also trust issues, of course - in a way this is even more "dangerous" than a true bot, since you never know when a user may choose to bot their edits. It wouldn't be a problem with me, and I can think of at least one other person who could use it (you know who you are). But still.

So am I just crazy and I should go make a bot, or is this actually feasible? (T/C) 14:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually that is how "minor" is supposed to work. By golly, there's even an option to hide minor edits from RC! --◄mendel► 17:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Bot edits are hidden by default, whereas minors are not, and until the above section's goals are complete then minor edits will continue to be abused and the system won't work. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 19:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait, a type of edit (bot) is hidden by default? Never thought about that before... but does seem like a bad idea, no? I'm amazed it's not abused much more. -->Suicidal Tendencie 20:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Bot status has to be granted by a bureaucrat to a specific account for the edits to be labeled 'bot'. So the only people that could abuse it are trusted users, and since they're trusted users, it's not abused :p --<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  21:04, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hm... so basically... I need to stop being lazy and bother reading things such as policy and whatnot? -->Suicidal Tendencie 21:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you flag minor edits as bot edits, you can't find them if a bot is actually running because they'll be snowed under. --◄mendel► 22:04, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Gobble Gobble
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hope everyone has a good holiday. --   Isk8   (T/C) 15:31, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Happy Thanksgiving! Qing Guang 16:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Happy holiday that I don't celebrate, hope your having a good day off. <font color="Orange">Random <font color="Black">Time  16:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't even really know what Thanksgiving is for. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 20:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Indians used to thank the gods or something spiritual whenever crops grew good. This was every year, give or take a few days/weeks. Time goes by and now it's an official day off. At least, that's what I recall of the story we got a few weeks back. Maybe Google is more precise :D --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  20:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanksgiving is for giving thanks. OK, not anymore, sure; but that was it's original purpose.  Now its just another holiday to get stuffed full-a food and utterly wasted; much like Christmas, except fewer presents and more food.  Oh my, that was a tad cynical, wasn't it?  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 20:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds like our public holidays haha... "What holiday is tomorrow?" "Who cares... we have the day off." Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 21:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd say that its original purpose was a autumn harvest festival. Which, as a farmer, you'd be most grateful for, because your year of work had paid off and you'd have food for another year. Thanksgiving itself is in commemoration of the pilgrims arriving in America and their first autumn surviving. As a national holiday it was established by Lincoln for giving thanks. --JonTheMon 22:36, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The catholic church has been celebrating thanksgiving since 300 A.D., says German Wikipedia. --◄mendel► 22:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Merry Holiday Remotely Related to Pilgrims and Turkey!! (Yay for non-conformity)--[[Image:Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg]] (Talk) (Contr.) 02:38, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Other than a particularly cold shower, I've had a relatively good Thanksgiving. House marathon and Thanksgiving pizza (lotsa cheese!! wooh!) make up for it; that and a nice, warm hoody and the prospect of another Tenchi marathon tonight. (thank god Barnes & Noble orders DVDs)  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 07:09, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday
User:Entropy/Wintersday

Attention GuildWikians!

We're planning some stuff for Wintersday, please visit the page above if you are interested. There will also be in-game events - a party in my Guild Hall, presents from "Secret Dwayna", and a raffle! We're looking for people to sign up, and also to donate presents/prizes as well as party items and consumables.

Hope you can help out and/or attend - we're looking for 100% participation. ;)

(T/C) 05:23, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll deffintelly come, I'll donate some presents too :) Though, It might be hard for me to get some party items (Due to me, not being able to get on Guild Wars for a bit. since laptop is broken.) Do you know when this would happen? or is everyone still deciding on a date. <font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Black">LostShadow 05:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We're working on it, but the secret dwayna and such will probably happen near Xmas. --<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  05:27, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I still have some fireworks crates (for some reason) if you need them. Cress Arvein [[Image:Cress sig.JPG]] 05:38, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Conservapedia
I object to your vandalizing of Conservapedia. Sure, it's a load of bullocks, but that doesn't mean you can be an ass over it! They are not gonna change their mind and vandalism just makes 'em hate those damned atheist/liberals even more. AnOriginalConcept 23:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It was done most likely for a thing most commonly referred to as "LULZ." Hell, I vandalized them myself, rickrolled em into oblivion.  They are spewing misinformation, and need to be shut down, much like Scientology; only less for profit and more with the being an asshat.  Vandalize away, mein freund.  [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 00:02, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Essentially, you are encouraging one to vandalize anything that they do not agree with. No matter how much one disagrees with another's views, one should remain polite.  Spreading disinformation?  Hah- the only ones who visit it are the ones who already agree with all its views.  Vandalizing Conservapedia is like punching a fat guy eating a hamburger. It's not gonna stop him from eating.  The only one he is hurting is himself, anyway.  There's no reason to hurt him more. AnOriginalConcept 00:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I also objected to the vandalism on similar grounds, but I would not object to punching a fat man eating a hamburger. That would be funny. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 00:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Btw, Warwick uploaded that pic, and afaik she only modified her own .css/.js, not hacked the site stuff. So it was mainly for personal lulz, not vandalism. --<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest  00:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. Sorry.  Objections recalled. AnOriginalConcept 00:49, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a parody. You're right, too, about not vandalising them. I just wonder why they seem to stress that any vandals are "liberal" - what would conservative vandals do to vandalise Conservapedia, and how would the sysops recognise them? As a political stance, this "whoever doesn't agree with me is the enemy" stance thoroughly fails - to be successful politically, you have to recognize that you have to work with those of different opinions to make lasting changes. What would Jesus do to vandalise Conservapedia? cf. Matthew 21:12 --◄mendel► 02:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Jesus would probably just say "everyone's wrong in some way". Or rick roll them. Not sure which atm. --JonTheMon 02:42, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have not vandalized Conservapedia, and what others do is not for me to control. I find Warwick's mockup to be incredibly funny, though, and that's why I have it on my userpage. (I suppose a caption would be prudent.) For the record I think Conservapedia would be better off wiped from the face of the planet, as well as some of its editors, and I'm not going to punish anyone on GuildWiki for vandalizing them...I wouldn't even be morally botherd by it. (That being said, I was the one who protted Gravewit's page, in order that he may preserve some shred of decency here... but that is a different situation.) [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 16:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Although their policies are very, very strange, I could not find any misinformation in the articles that I've read so far. I'm curious about why everyone hates it this much. Obviously their policies are conservative (and stupid in my opinion), yet I'm not finding anything to hate them over yet. Well, not on the South African history pages anyway :P Maybe the American ones are worse, but I don't know enough about that to judge the content. Silver Sunlight (T/C) 22:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Try the Atheism, Wikipedia, and Evolution pages. Their administration is worse. Oh, and talk pages are always a hoot. -- R [[Image:RPhalange star.png|18px]] Phalange  22:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG
 * "The vast majority of scientific studies have shown that abortion causes an increase in breast cancer"
 * "In 2007, WorldNetDaily feature a column by Chuck Norris which stated the following regarding atheism and the Internet: " (Why does Chuck Norris make a difference??)
 * "Until the 1970s the scientific consensus was wrong on how lions killed their prey. The Bible was correct regarding how lions killed their prey." (What does that have to do with evolution O_O yes, it's on that page.
 * OK I understand the hate for Conservapedia... It's composed out of nothing but narrow minded opinions. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 22:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

irc
plz. &mdash; Warw/Wick 16:45, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Somewhere
/* colors for content and tabs */ background: #B0E0E6 !important; border: 1px solid #000000; border-right: none; } background: #B0E0E6 !important; border: 1px solid #000000; }
 * 1) content {
 * 1) p-cactions ul li a {

div#globalWrapper { background-color: #007FFF !important; }

body { background-color: #007FFF !important; border-right: none; }

/* Change background of category bar and ToC */ border: 1px solid #000000; -moz-border-radius: 1em; background-color: #007FFF; } border: 1px solid #000000; -moz-border-radius: 1em; background-color: #007FFF; }
 * 1) catlinks {
 * 1) toc {

border: 1px solid #00000; -moz-border-radius: 1em; background-color: #007FFF; }
 * 1) edit {

background-color: #B0E0E6; }
 * 1) footer {

/* p- class changes are to the navigation areas of the page. */ position: absolute; left: 13.7em; top: 0; right: 0; z-index: 0; font-weight: bold; border:1px solid #000000; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 1em; border-top: none; background: #B0E0E6; overflow: visible; padding: 0 2em 0 3em; }
 * 1) p-personal ul {

color: #453B26 !important; } text-decoration: italic; color: #453B26 !important; } color: #E80000 !important; } /* --- ROUNDED CORNERS --- */ /* make a few corners round, only supported by moz/firefox/other gecko browsers for now */ border: 1px solid #000000; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 1em; } div.pBody { border: 1px solid #000000; -moz-border-radius-topright: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 1em; }
 * 1) globalWrapper a {
 * 1) globalWrapper a:visited {
 * 1) globalWrapper a.new {
 * 1) content {

/* same following the css3 draft specs, any browsers supporting this? */ border: 1px solid #000000; border-radius-topleft: 1em; border-radius-topright: 1em; } border: 1px solid #000000; border-radius-topleft: 1em; border-radius-bottomleft: 1em; } div.pBody { border: 1px solid #000000; background: #B0E0E6; border-radius-topright: 1em; border-radius-bottomright: 1em; }
 * 1) p-cactions ul li, #p-cactions ul li a {
 * 1) content {

/* --- YOU HAVE NEW MESSAGES BAR --- */

/* prettified */ .usermessage, .usermessage plainlinks { background: #007FFF; text-decoration:blink;

Thats the dark/light combo. Still working a colour scheme for light/lighter. &mdash; Warw/Wick 18:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC) }

While fixing Peems sig
I came across this. Yay? --- -- (contribs)  &emsp;(talk)  10:46, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You haven't seen it before?[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 14:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We were talking about it on IRC some time ago, and we couldn't find it back. --- [[Image:VipermagiSig.JPG|Ohaider!]] -- (contribs) &emsp;(talk)  17:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * o_O I could have sworn that at least one user had all those type .gif on their page but when I looked, people would have all but that one.. strange. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Channel owner
Do you want it? I need a definitive answer, so Warwick will stop complaining about me having ownership. --<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Steelblue">Shadowcrest 01:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * D: I don't want it because I am too ignorant to use it properly, but if it will solve a problem then sure, whatever... [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 04:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info
Wanted to tell you thanks for the info. Didn't know about the resizing and it will save me some time. Much appreciated. Tenetke 18:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

xmas deco
Is that a perm-op, or are you removing the op when we take down xmas decorations??? -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 01:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess putting "xmas decorations" as the reason wasn't obvious enough. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure, since you have a history of putting non-descriptive lighthearted remarks into user right summaries. Why do ppl need temp sysop rights for Xmas purposes anyways?  Testing can be done without sysop rights by importing a collaborative one in the GW namespace into personal css/js, and we have enough sysops IMHO to actually implement the well-tested ones. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Warwick wanted to edit the MediaWiki files. I'll remove it if it bothers you. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think things can get confusing/messy if we start doing temp ops without at least a semi-formal set of guidelines, and it's not necessary for CSS/JS stuff. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 01:57, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * LordBiro did it before when it was also not necessary. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 01:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * LordBiro was more akin to a god then anyone besides Entropy tbh.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 03:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:IRC?
Short: Both were me. You are quite right in being cautious. In fact, I would be worried if you aren't suspicious at all (especially on the second one), though I didn't mean it as some kind of test. (Longer reply to come later since you want to know ASAP). -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 07:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Longer reply: I am hesitant to create a Gamesurge account. One reason is I don't use it often, and I do not know what their nick expiration policy is.  If I registered one and used it for a while, but later it expired due to inactivity and somebody else finds out and registers it, that can cause a LOT of harm until I notice it.  Thus I consider the lesser evil to be having people always not sure if the IRC "PanSola" is really me (vs always able to "be sure").  I am not worried about Freenode because in order to get a wikia mask (which I have) you need to use both IRC AND the Wiki to request the mask from a Wikia staff, certifying the person on IRC indeed has account access to the Wikia account.  And Freenode nicks might last forever.  Therefore, I encourage you to continue doubt and be cautious of the identity of whoever appearing to be PanSola on Gamesurge IRC, unless otherwise verified via Wikia case-by-case. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 07:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I already lost "Entropy", and it's only lucky that I have three+ fairly recognizable handles. But I get your point. I had to be forced to register with Gamesurge tbh. :S [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 08:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * How is someone authing as PanSola when your auth might have expired different from someone authing as PanSola now? (I assume Gamesurge purges you from all user lists when it expires.) --◄mendel► 12:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have claimed PanSola on gamesurge; contact me if you want it. --◄mendel► 14:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Difference: in the first case somebody would be inherit something that used to be fully legit, so there is a lot of inherent credibility. In the second case, it will at most be semi-legit because hopefully enough people know authing is first-come first-serve basis so that any authed account without being verified on Wiki remains questionable. -User:PanSola (talk to the [[Image:follower of Lyssa.png]]) 18:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday Userbox!
To commemorate the effort you've put into preparing GuildWiki for our Wintersday celebration, I have created a special userbox at Template:User Wintersday:

Wear it with pride! <3 09:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi
I see that you're obviously one of the sherriffs in these parts. So i thought as i was new, i'd say hello. At least now my name goes on the pages that i edit so people knoe who to blame when it looks messy lol Wild...  This is Cake Townz! 13:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Entropy is the head magistrate. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 22:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Pfft. Supreme Overlady. [[Image:Rsz_PLSig.jpg‎]] 02:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just weird...you're supposed to get here organically by normal GuildWiking.[[Image:Ereanorsign.jpg]]<strong style="color: black;">reanor 17:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No time for organically. Cake Townz waits for no man Wild...   This is Cake Townz!  17:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

WTB
Your Murakai's Blade. Offer me. IGN:Baine Bloodfinger 220.255.7.224 08:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I lost it. True story. I was doing 600/Smite and got a Murakai's, and then it disappeared. I may or may not have been drunk at the time. I need to go put a big notice that that page is horribly out of date. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 09:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You sold it to me for 5k. I gave it to Mamza. [[Image:Felix_Omni_Signature.png]] 10:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You gave it to... I c. But no, I got another one after that. You can find the post in my archives, I think. [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * AWkay. 220.255.7.199 11:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I added you to my flist. I'll sell you mine Wild...   This is Cake Townz!  12:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

More of me being stupid
If you are a new Prophecies character in Pre-Searing and you don't have any of the bonus keys (no Glacial Blade, Nevermore Bow, etc) and you delete your starter weapon before you leave town, then you are permanently stuck. You cannot kill anything, there are no allies to help you, and you have no skills. >.>

ANet needs to add "Starter " to the merchants, imo. (T/C) 09:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could /beg until someone gives you another weapon.--Łô√ë [[Image:Gigathrash_sig_G.jpg|Fear.]]<font color="Black">îğá†ħŕášħ 09:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't hurt, seeing as they're unsalable and have crappy stats, lol. [[Image:RHSig.jpg]] talk 09:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Now how the hell did you find that out?And yes this should be added, just make it not sellable and not salvagableDurga Dido 09:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I made a pre character to store some items from someone else, and I wanted more space so I deleted their starter weapon too. I forgot that you had to, y'know, kill stuff before you could leave pre. >.> [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] (T/C) 10:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think begging (or making a friend) would work except you need to wait 24 hours before you can trade with somebody? Anyway, if you haven't killed anything yet you can just reroll your character, what's to lose? You get 10 gold from the Town Crier for walking to Sir Tydus. Arthur Ayala could be made to sell you a weapon for that, but lacking that, you can use it to compensate another player for giving you a dropped weapon. Or you could earn money by being a gate opener or collecting Red Iris Flowers. Use your imagination! --◄mendel► 16:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC) & 16:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC) & 16:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * She said she made the character to store stuff for someone else, so I don't think rerolling is an option. And Arthur's cheapest weapons are 50g, Tydus' 10g isn't enough on its own.  &mdash;Dr Ishmael [[Image:Diablo_the_chicken.gif]] 16:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I know it is, I merely think that you wouldn't need to offer starter weapons for free if Ayala had a 10 weapon for sale. But he hasn't, and neither does your primary profession trainer offer you one (that is the logical place to get a weapon for free, I seem to recall it works that way in the other campaigns), but none of the wepons that drop can be merched for more than 10, so I bet any player who merches at all would be happy to sell you one. --◄mendel► 16:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hidden Stash all i'm saying <font color="FFOOFF">Kurtan 16:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

deletion discussion
I seem to remember that on other wikis it makes sense to keep a deletion discussion talkpage, because that makes things simpler when/if somebody else thinks the article (or redirect) is a good idea &mdash; and it's happened before, so it it can happen again, can't it? --◄mendel► 16:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that redirect was valid... Fastcasting should go to Fast Casting if Ray of Judgement redirects to the American spelling of the skill. Writing it as one word is an easy mistake to make. Silver Sunlight [[Image:SSunlight.jpg|18px]] (T/C) 16:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)