User talk:Tenshuu/Build:SoloSin

Rate-a-build
''Please rate new builds

. It is not mandatory to explain your rating and testing is optional, though it is preferable. Also, please take note of where a build is designed to be used before voting.''

The build functions as intended, equally or better than other builds (Favored):
 * 1) ''Since ANet nerfed Shadow of Haste, should this be amended or what? I've tampered with the build a bit and found that having Recall and Golden Lotus Strike work EXCELLENT as substitutes for Dark Escape and Shadow of Haste.
 * 2) I love this build, so so so sex. - Nex 17:15, 15 January 2007 (CST) You can't favor your own build. --Ufelder 23:59, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Note: It is assumed by the fact that the creator submitted the build that he/she favours it.-[[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] Krowman [[Image:Spiked Eggnog.jpg|19px]] 19:48, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Comment stricken as per administrative action seen here: . Defiant Elements 01:13, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * You struck my comment, when this is NOT my build? What is that? I only translated it from Guru, I am NOT the original author. - Nex 17:05, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * Author of the wiki page. &mdash; Skuld 17:24, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) ''It works, it works well, it does what it's supposed to and all that good stuff.Teutonic Paladin 21:35, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) It fulfills its purpose. Its purpose isn't very fulfilling though NightAngel 22:54, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Hmm, it does take quite a while to do, but it does do its job, good to use if I feel like burning time in the future Wyvern Afini 23:21, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) &mdash; Skuld 02:16, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) Works very well, if only America had favor more often.:) Charger Xd 16:22, 16 January 2007 (CST)
 * 3) This is nearly the exact Echo + Shadow Form build I came up with (Empathy too!) for farming Drok's Trolls for XP (I'm not far in Prophecies with my 'Sin yet :P). Like Skuld points out below, it IS very slow, but you can solo just about anything in the game. - Insidious420 18:14, 17 January 2007 (CST)
 * 4) * goes back to farming tombs with this* --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * 5) This works. it's slow but fun and in a lucky run i got two ectos, so maybe it isn't even that bad as a farming method. --Babboelvis 12:05, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * 6) Awesomenesssss Solus  [[image:Shield_of_Judgment.jpg|19px]] 02:23, 4 March 2007 (CST)

The build functions as intended, but other builds with the same professions do it better (Unfavored):
 * 1) A/E Solo Green Farmer buddy. Simpler and easier.--Nog64 18:33, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Irrelevant. This is not a green farming build. - User:Nex
 * Well it kind of is but this farms greens that no other build ever has before.Teutonic Paladin 21:35, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * The A/E build is good, but this A/Me build does something totally different. That one farms bosses, this one farms the stuff in FoW and Tombs. Charger Xd 16:24, January 16 2007 (CST)

The build does not fulfil its designated role at all (Unfavored):
 * 1) Empathy? -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 19:26, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Did you even try this build? Empathy is a must, and unfavoring it because of empathy shows you've never even tried this build. - User:Nex
 * Did you even read how voting works? I don't have to provide a reason. Kindly don't ever cross my (or anyone's) vote out; if I wanted it crossed, I would have. If you want a hex that's spammable and reliable, throw Phantasm or something on - 2 sec recharge, and all the points you dump into it will actually do something. Oh, and try to use #: when replying to votes in the voting section. -Auron [[Image:Elit Druin.jpg|||My Talk]] 19:48, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Again, you shouldn't vote if you HAVEN'T tried the build. If you tried it, you'd know why Empathy is there. - User:Nex
 * Auron, you need to take a look at the Guru threads for this build. It has been tested to death, it will not get better until skills are changed. It works and is at the top of it's form.Teutonic Paladin 21:38, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Tried Conjure Phantasm, didn't get me kills. Tried Shadowy Burden, didn't get me kills. You'd be surprised at how big a spike Empathy can provide under the right circumstances. --Armond Warblade (talk) 21:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * 1) Original GWGuru author even himself stated that this is not a very fast farmer, and nor is it very profitable. That was also established on page two of the discussion provided below. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:39, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * 2) SLOOOW. Even the OP over at Guru agrees with me on this one. - [[Image:Candle.jpg|12px]] Krowman (talk • contribs) 02:20, 4 March 2007 (CST)
 * 3) It´s too slow and not very profitable, which is pretty much what farming is supposed to be about - profit. I can think of many other builds that can solo more profitable places with just as much ease. Though it works as intended and used right you´re totally invulnerable, it just takes way to long. After ALOT of testing and consideration, I´m sorry, but I have to place my vote here. (Soulflame 17:45, 1 April 2007 (CDT))

Discussion
Definantly one of those "just to show I can do it" builds, this takes forever hehe &mdash; Skuld 11:31, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Tried this build out and, although it takes quite a while, it is extremely effective and can clear the whole ToPK. -Punjabprince 11:48, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I'm curious, because the usage notes don't mention it—why do you use Empathy? --Ufelder 11:49, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * empathy adds dmg and is a hex to trigger black lotus and black spider. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 12:21, 15 January 2007 (CST)

i would replace dark escape with Deadly Paradox- it can cancel shadow of haste and reduce the recharge of shadow form. also, pouring 10 points into dom just for empathy seems a waste, i would take that out and split the points between shadow/dagger/crit 11/10/10. Shadowy Burden would be a good substitute for empathy &mdash; 12:21, 15 January 2007 (CST)


 * Not good, try it &mdash; Skuld 13:11, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * yea, probably not. i just instinctively cringe when i see 1 non-elite skill taking up 10 att points. :P &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 13:15, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * A good amount of the damage done by this build, is done by empathy, and technically, without it, the build is fubar'd. -- User:Nex


 * Umm, this thing kills 1 thing every 2 minutes... or maybe I didn't do it right... well the point is, its too slow.PoG 15:59, 15 January 2007 (CST)


 * Yah, its just the novelty of doing it &mdash; Skuld 16:12, 15 January 2007 (CST)


 * I kill two things each time I go out, and when you're doing to run with another Sin (or more than two) it actually goes pretty fast. Not as fast as full 8-man methods, obviously. But you get more drops. I haven't managed to solo a Wurm, but it can be done with two people. --Psyche 17:01, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Why is Deadly Haste in the build? You don't even have a cancel for SoH, so how are you supposed to use it to teleport out? Wouldn't it make more sense to Deadly Paradox -> Arcane Echo -> Shadow Form -> Shadow of Haste then run in, gives you a cancel stance too. <>Spark 17:16, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * you are correct. the change from deadly paradox to deadly haste was made by a random IP, i changed it back. &mdash;[[Image:Damnreds.png]] 19:26, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * Reverted to show original intention. And would people PLEASE read the description of the build before voting? GOD. - User:Nex
 * Apparently, you don't need a cancel stance of Stadow of Haste, because if you time it right, shadow of haste will be canceled right before shadow form cancels. - User:Charger Xd

Nex I wanna agree with you on something, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT VOTE IF THEY HAVE NOT ACTUALLY TESTED A BUILD! I don't know how many times I see it but people just look at skills and think something is crap so they go to unfavored and bam thats how things happen alot.
 * Unfortunately, as frustrating as it may be, people are allowed to vote without testing and without any reason whatsoever. Most of the time, the system works, (i.e. bad builds are unfavored, good builds are tested).  Of course, occasionally, good builds become unfavored, and, more frequently bad builds become favored.  Actually though, in my experience, it is unusual for a really good build to be unfavored... most of the time at least, we get it right.  However, for now, there is no purpose raving about it, if you want the system to change, discuss it, but for now, it is the way the system works.  Defiant Elements 01:13, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I'm new here so sorry if I don't format this correctly, I've been trying this build a bit and had a few suggestions. I ran into problems hitting anything where there were monks present and especially hitting monks themselves since empathy does nothing once they stop attacking and start self-healing. To compensate I put in Shadowy Burden in place of Empathy and shifted over some attribute points. I then replaced Dark Escape with Death Blossom for some added damage since if you time it right you don't really need to ever cancel Shadow of Haste. This allowed me to deal more damage to casters/healers since they don't spend much time attacking anyway so empathy is mostly wasted on them. Just some thoughts from my experience, I haven't tried it in any of the big farming areas though. I was able to solo several level 24 bosses this way though.

Guru thread
Is it this? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10101040 --Ufelder 23:50, 15 January 2007 (CST)
 * That's not good for this build. It clearly makes the point that this is a very slow farmer, you can only take on two enemies at a time, and is much slower than the existing Fissure farmers we already have. It's on page 2 of the discussion, and even the author admitted to that. &mdash; Rapta  [[image:Rapta_Icon1.gif|19px]] (talk|contribs) 16:38, 23 January 2007 (CST)
 * Considering very few other builds can come even close to full completion of Tombs, this build is exceptional even if a bit slow. For FoW, I will agree that it is slower than other builds, though I think that area was added post-development for more farming variety.  --The Deathmonger 14:29, 25 February 2007 (CST)

few notes
Since there is one nightfall skill, is it possible to find a replacement for people that dont have NF? I have used this build without it, but it does need a good attack skill as a replacement as you wont have extra degen of poison. Another, it says under counters, interupts, I've never once been interupted. Have any of you? or am I just lucky?
 * Sometimes, if you get aggro before you get Shadow Form, one of the Scythes' can interrupt it. In that case, just warp out and recharge. - User:Nex

nerf
whit the reduced duration of Shadow of Haste it is almost impossible to kill 2 mobs in on go. i cleared the first section of TOPK (and go an ecto) but now with the nerf it is almost impossible  oris rhy 09:54, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 * Wow, another person who doesn't understand that these changes are temporary, and its back to normal now... Charger Xd 15:28, 23 January (CST)

Now it's permament, even worse nerf. You loose at least 7 seconds waiting for recharge. - Abedeus 09:59, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Darn, they have done it again>.<

Type of Armor
Does this build need full armor or can it be any one? What's the minimum??? I don't really wanna go blow my money >.< but if I have to, I'll do it.--Sairier 14:15, 26 January 2007 (CST)
 * U need full armor with the best energy bonus. I have Radiant Armor from Bone Palace with 2 atutment runes and 3 superior runes. U dont need health such as energy so buy any armor with the bigest energy bonus. --Blessedpl
 * Note that the armor level doesn't matter as long as it has the energy bonus. Since you are a one hit kill with or without high armor level once Shadow Form ends, you might as well save your money and buy starter armor. --The Deathmonger 14:21, 25 February 2007 (CST)

Variants
For those without nightfall, try swapping out black spider strike for Golden Phoenix Strike, giving (usually) 2 uses at +25 damage per assault. Added as a variant, if anyone comes up with a better replacement Factions skill, go for it - losing the degen from poision means definately only 1 kill per assault. Deadbolt 21:44, 13 February 2007 (CST)

It was under our nose : you say you can cast Golden + 25 twice...i suggest Repeating +25 four times...quite a spike...then finish with twistings!

Attributes and Skills
I thought of this build while farming tombs. It is three times as efficient (instead of one monster per run i have 3 monsters per run) and recharges twice as fast.

Usage
Cast recall on Acolyte Kaizhen. Wait for energy to recharge.

Go to any group of monsters. When just outside of aggro cast Deadly Paradox ---> Arcane Echo ---> Shadow Form. Then cast empathy on one target then follow with combo. When empathy runs out on target then wait for 2 secs and then cast copied version of shadow form.

When monster dies do combo to next monster, when shadow form starts to flicker cast deadly paradox ---> Shadow Form.

When that monster dies do to next monster.

When final Shadow Form starts to flicker release recall. --80.3.64.13 12:04, 16 February 2007 (CST)


 * Works well, but there are two problems:
 * There are no NPCs to use recall on after level one of tombs, meaning that you wont be able to progress any further than the first map. Since ecto-dropping monsters are more prevalent on levels 2 to 4, this isn't so good, imo. Also, you won't be able to solo up to the green-dropping bosses.
 * If you accidentally pull monsters into aggro with the acolytes, your run is over, even if you manage to survive.Deadbolt 14:40, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Attributes
Since after the skill update Shadow form when echoed out-lasts shadow of haste, you can get a little more damage out of the build by moving a point from shadow arts into domination magic. This bings empathy to thirty nine damage, and means that shadow of haste should finish just as your echoed copy of shadow form is beginning to flicker, meaning no 'dead time' under shadow form.

If there are no objections, I'll edit the main article Deadbolt 10:50, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Can someone please mention how the user got Domination upto 11? The highest I can seem to get it (with level 20) is 9 and that's with all the nessacary runes needed.

Shadow Arts: 9+1+3, Dagger Mastery: 8+3, Critical Strikes: 8+3, Domination: 11?

I took off all my armour before changing my attributes just to be sure, and Domination doesn't go higher than 9.

Works well with practice but maybe there is room somewhere along the line for improvement.

Unreal Havoc 82.4.229.166 11:19, 28 March 2007 (CDT) 11:19, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

chained souls useing rend enchantment,can it take shadow form off?
might be a stupid question,but seeing as shadow form only prevents spells and attacks,does it block this skill?
 * Rend enchantments is a spell.. &mdash; Skuld 02:42, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

actual ability to solo all of tombs?
well every time i try this build out,works excellent up to the part where the first worms spawn on lvl 2,then the mass amount of knockdowns and worms always going under while im attacking seems to kill me...... another thing,on lvl 3 and 4,right after killing the starting mobs,how would u kill the stationary worms,not into the matter of killing them,but the fact that thye have extremly long range and might hit u where u activate soh,and since u do have a time limit,how would this work on putting it farther back?and on lvl 4,when u kill the first few roms,thye are on an unaccesible ledge apparently,since u have to get closer to kill some mobs by the beginning of the unfinished bridge,soh would need to be cast closer,within the worms agro.........plz specify more on these stressing parts,ty

ya i saw that too,i cast soh,run in and atatck em,then when it teles be back,they just nuke me the moment i get to where i cast soh=inbsta death ><