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/Archive 1 ~ 10th Aug 05 /Archive 2 ~ 25th Jan 06
/Archive 3 ~ 20th Feb 06 /Archive 4 - The Skill Box Revamp vote
/Archive 5 - The incomplete new skill box decision /Archive 6 - The Skill icon format vote
/Skill box - The revote that settled the new format... for now /Archive 8
/Archive 9 /Archive 10 - QR style, energy per second in progression
/Archive 11

Acquisition revisited[]

Current Text

The acquisition section should contain:

  • A list of all quests which grant the skill upon acceptance or upon completion.
  • A list of skill trainers and hero skill trainers that offer the skill:
    • For Prophecies, all skill trainers that offer the skill.
    • For Factions, all skill trainers before Michiko in Kaineng Center that offer the skill and the first trainer afterwards (from Michiko forward).
    • For Nightfall, all skill trainers on Istan that offer the skill, the first trainer afterwards if unavailable on Istan, and all hero skill trainers.
  • All bosses the skill can be captured from.
    • "Appropriate" bosses for non-elite skills are all bosses that can reasonably be encountered before the skill is available via other means. For example, in Prophecies, Aftershock can be captured in several locations before it is ever available at a skill trainer.
  • A list of secondary profession changers that offer the skill.

Skills listed are to follow the above order.

It has always been my belief (and others', I am sure) that we only list "the first trainer" at which people can feasibly buy a skill. I do not see why an exception is made for Prophecies. If a skill is available at Lion's Arch, Ascalon City, and Ember Light Camp, for instance, only Lion's Arch and Ascalon should be listed because no matter what campaign you are from, it's impossible to reach Ember Light Camp without going through one of those places first. That's the reasoning for Factions and Nightfall skills...

I could dig through the archives to find where this was decided, but there are 11 of them and that's a huge amount of text to wade through. :\ I want to propose that the acquisition section be amended so that only "the first trainer" (skill trainer) which could feasibly be reached is listed. Of course this would keep in mind both a player who starts in that campaign, and also foreign players. For example, a native Prophecies character starts in Ascalon; foreigners "start" in Lion's Arch.

The part about listing all trainers before Firstwatch Sergio or Michiko makes sense, because for foreigners, they would be visiting those towns in reverse order

The part about listing all hero skill trainers makes sense, though, because they all have independent lists that are not cumulative at all.

Proposed Text

The acquisition section should contain:

Skills listed are to follow the above order.

Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 02:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Addendum - I also feel it would be important to note, for certain Signet of Capture locations, if the boss is conditional - for example, if they are only there during certain quests, or they don't spawn for certain reasons, if they disappear after certain events, etc etc. It is true that this information could easily be found by going to the boss' page, and sometimes easily found by going to the location's page; but, if I am just going to cap a skill and only glance at the skill page, this could lead to some very annoying and pointless expeditions for a non-existent boss. For example, on Forceful Blow, there is an important note that it is only available Sacnoth Valley during The Smell of Titan in the Morning. That's important, because it's hell to get to that place. Even though that is rather extreme example, I think note should be made for any such changes, to keep things consistent. See also my edits to Battle Rage's acquistion. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 02:53, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Addendum the Second - Since all Skill Trainers and Hero Skill Trainers in EotN offer the exact same skills, and players will always reach the Eye of the North outpost first, I think only the trainers there should be listed. (Who would skip that outpost these days, anyway?) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

What about skills that are available in say, Maguuma Stade and then not again until Ember Light? --Shadowcrest 18:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Most people skip Maguuma Stade entirely, so it's perfectly logical to list both of those trainer. Actually, tbh, I was thinking and this only really applies to Droknar's Forge/Ember Light. Nearly every other outpost is quite feasible to skip...if you just do the missions / get a Droks run, both of which are quite common. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 01:02, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
You cannot even skip EoTN, since you need to go to the Scrying Pool to go further than ICChasms (I-Cy-Chasms, ha ha ). --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 09:58, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Are you sure? I know the portal to Battledepths is "locked" before that, but I'm pretty sure you can head north/northwest to Norrhart Domains or whatever... Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 10:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh, you're right. And in that case it makes even more sense to just list those first trainers. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 10:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)