Talk: Barbs

Does this skill cause them to take damage twice or just add the damage?(ie. will it trigger something like Healing Hands twice?--Devils Apprentice 18:55, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Take the damage twice, I believe. One packet for the original damage, one packet for the Barbs damage. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:56, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Yep, if you watch the "damage window" you'll see Barbs show up, also it'll show as separate packets. Like "-49" and then "-9 (Barbs)". Not sure about triggering HH or similar twice, though, as that's a pretty uncommon scenario... Entropy 18:59, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Buff?

Doesn;t this skill need to be buffed to hell. At the same level any conjure spell is doing atleast 10 more damage and to any enemy not just hexed one. This needs help!Dark0805 11:52, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

conjure spells dont trigger when an other ally hits the target, making this spell better in that point. also triggers on minion attacks--Want2be 11:59, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

And you don't need a Elemental upgrade on your weapon. I still agree, this needs a buff. Sir Bertrand 10:13, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Conjure only affects you... this affects the entire team's weapons... — Skuld 10:33, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

I wonder why people think this skill needs a buff. My Curses Necro does not enter a mission without it in hard mode, and it is incredibly effective. Pair this skill with Barrage/Pet Rangers and a MM Hero and you can see your enemies melt like wax in the sun. This skill WAS once really underpowered, but as you wrote this on 18 May 2007 I cannot really understand you. It has many positive aspects: Long-lasting hex. Great to trigger things that depend on hexes. Fast recharge. Plus an incredible damage boost if you have some people dealing physical damage in your team. This +16 damage is armor ignoring, conjures cannot compare to this. Give Barbs a chance! (Long, not logged in)

It used to need a buff, but it got it. The recharge used to be 30 seconds (if I remember right); now it's a much better 5.

The best thing about Barbs is its short recharge, even if its removed it is easily re-applied, not that you should need to. Paired with Mark of Pain, this skill is awesome. Monster healers have a really hard time keeping up with the volume of damage that comes off this especially if you have a MM with you. The drawback of the conjure spells is the long recharge, if it gets shattered then you have to wait for the recharge. Also, the need for an elemental weapon precludes the use of a zealous weapon which really helps when you need the energy to recast it. That's where Barbs is superior since it only needs physical damage to trigger. --BeeD 05:01, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Imagine two people hacking at someone with barbs. With one skill amoung both people (ie both tanks), they can both get the increased damage. This is a skill that will benefit a team. No buff is needed.StatMan 13:45, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Barbs is one of the most overlooked Curses, and one of my absolute favourites these days. I used to overlook it too. Now it is rarely off my skillbar, on both my Necro and my Ranger. It works well in PvE and PvP. It's excellent for dealing with really tough bosses or teams with good healers. As mentioned above by another wise necromancer, with rangers and minions in your party, it will melt them like wax. The best part about barbs is that, unlike conjure elemental enchantments, this is armor ignoring damage. Facing a foe with protection monks covering him in damage reducing enchantments? No worries. They make take 0 dmg from the actual attack that hit them, but they'll still take full damage from the barb trigger. My barrage/interrupt Ranger almost always has Barbs and Mark of Pain on his skill bar, and it makes him incredibly deadly, even without other rangers, pets or minions supporting him. Whether you have 10 in Curses or 16 in Curses, I agree, give Barbs a chance! Try it instead of a pet next time you go to Tombs, and you won't be dissappointed once you see how fast a high-armor chaos worm with barbs on it dies compared to a worm without barbs on it.-- Sancha Vrinn, Aug 22, 2007

Nerfed

Now its 10 energy...too bad, it was working out nicely on my sin.. Vainity And Sorrow 15:02, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Needs a 1 Second Cast

Then it would actually be used quite often, PvP and PvE. The fact that it's single target and has a 2 second cast makes it undesirable for PvE because you'll have to constantly recast it, but a one second cast (or AoE effect, although that may be a little too much) would make it worth running in just about every physical team. ــѕт.мıкε 17:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

.... You suck. RaOway/Rangerway/Heroway/What-have-you uses Barbs and it's massively effective even with a 2 sec cast. Why? Because +18 armor ignoring damage every hit in a single, RoF killing package 10 times per 3 seconds hurts. A lot. This is one of the few skills that should never be buffed. --- -- (s)talkpage 17:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Those are mostly HA gimmicks, but I'm thinking more about PvE, where once you blow up one monster, you don't want to have to take 2 seconds to cast a hex to blow up the next. Barbs sees little to no use in PvE, and even less in GvG, where it could actually be quite useful if it weren't interrupt fodder or too slow to be worth recasting every couple seconds. ــѕт.мıкε 21:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I always take Barbs on my Curses necro, actually. Very nice with a minion master. 21:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Barbs sees little to no use in PvE...hehe (T/C) 22:38, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

^What she said. King Neoterikos 22:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

so i herd everyone using sabway and discordway use Barbs on their melee buff bitch. i also herd 40/40 sets are quite popular with curses. --Alf's Hitman 22:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

A 40/40 Set has a 32% chance to halve the recharge of a spell (and 4% to quarter it), so that's like a 17% reduction in casting time on average. I'd rather not run 40/40 sets for just one skill when I could take Hale/Fortitude mods to be able to afford to use a Superior Rune on a Hero. I'm not saying the skill is bad, but it would see more use in organized groups as well as casual PvP. Sure, Sabway and Discordway are nice, but I'd rather run some hard-hitting frontliners and Orders to make things blow up twice as fast.

Barbs has to be constantly recast to be worth running, and a 2 second recharge just slows you down too much, imo. ــѕт.мıкε 23:12, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

They could only reduce the cast time for PvE. In PvP, it would be too imba for it to be a 1s cast. King Neoterikos 23:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Barbs takes one slot and can be thrown onto any Curses bar. Orders is a specialized build that basically occupies one whole bar (D/N Orders). I know what I'd take for bar compression. (T/C) 23:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

PvE isn't meant to be done one monster at a time. Orders means that every physical in your group can pick out onemonster and blow them up in a couple seconds. OoP also has a shitty Casting time, though. XD ــѕт.мıкε 23:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Recharges in 5 seconds and lasts much longer than that, omg. Orders doesn't work on pets and minions (and the Assassin Support). (T/C) 23:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

(resetting indent) HM kind of needs barbs (if you plan on running curses, that is). King Neoterikos 23:26, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

(EC)Pets, Minions and the Vanguard Sins can't hit multiple foes with one attack, which is why I'd opt for a team with 5-6 physicals, the Orders and a Healer. ــѕт.мıкε 23:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

And then blind (and blocking) destroys your build. NM is too easy for 1s cast, HM needs a 2s cast or it's imba. King Neoterikos 23:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

1 healer makes HM cry. (T/C) 23:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

One of those physicals is an Imbagon. Also, Blind and Blocking would be worse on a build that uses Barbs over Orders, because you essentially just wasted 2 seconds and have to wait another 5 if your target is blocking, whereas with Orders, you can switch and still receive the benefits. ــѕт.мıкε 23:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Meanwhile, minions are exploding with Death Nova and causing massive AoE domages + poison. GG blocking. (T/C) 23:37, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Every swing with a buffed-up Scythe is like a Death Nova, tbh. ــѕт.мıкε 23:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't do much vs Aegis or Eruption. King Neoterikos 00:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

That's what switching targets, interrupts/KDs, condition removal and not running a build that's specifically countered in a certain area are for. It would be like running a team of casters where Backfire and a million covers are used against you without Hex removal or enough Healing to compensate. ــѕт.мıкε 00:23, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Aegis covers the entire enemy. I've never seen Disrupting Throw on an Imbagon, and I guess you're running a Prot/Heal hybrid healer. o_O (T/C) 00:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

GDW or interrupts on Heroes will do, and besides, you're still dealing more damage even if half of your attacks are being blocked. Also, only about a dozen different monsters use Eruption, more than half of which use the Stone Elemental skin. ــѕт.мıкε 00:29, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, with Heroes, you don't get GDW and EBSoH (unless you take them on your own bar), which is what makes Sabway great, but Sabway can't be compared to a team using a bunch of PvE-only skills, and physicals generally get the most from these (EBSoH, GDW and Asuran Scan mean you'll be hitting for 200+ damage per swing). Or, you just run Cryway. ــѕт.мıкε 00:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmph.

1.- 83% casting time > 100% casting time.

2.- Superior runes are fail.

3.- Melee heroes are fail, too.

4.- Orders necros takes 3 skill slots at most and is not always a D/N. And definately it shouldn't be when used by humans.

5.- Curses offers a wide range of useful skills for both physical-heavy and normal teams, especially those without an Imbagon.

6.- Discord and Assassin's Promise disagree with the 1 monster at a time statement. Not only that, but there is either always priority targets which the whole team attacks at once, or the zone is way too easy to call targets.

7.- When you don't have 82.32% damage reduction, wether it be because you don't like playing the same build a million times and thus prefer a versatile class, or because you won't depend on your guildies/friends to do some HM, it's usually best having as many necros as you can on your team. One, because melee heroes and henchies fail at pathing. Two, because they can prot, remove conditions and hexes, and create a wall of minions. Three, they do very good damage through Death Nova/Barbs/MoP/Splinter, or Discordway for casters. Four, no energy issues with the wall. If you argue against this because "you'll be using same builds over and over again", then you're not thinking of your Imbagon and how boring it is to spam SY! and the other stuff for the millionth time.

8.- A highly physical team won't use Barbs, granted; unfortunately those are mostly human guild groups and not solo HM PvE'ers, which are easily 80% of the HM population.

9.- The highly physical teams use a buffing bitch with Splinter, GDW and other stuff.

10.- Buffed scythes are still blockable.

11.- Don't compare human teams vs. 1 human + 7 AI controlled characters. If you have a full human team, it's evident you're not going to do an easily H/H'able vanquish because that's a waste of time when you could instead do DoA or some dungeon. Full human teams also use lots of OP PvE only buffs which shouldn't be compared to other more basic skills, because Sabway or Discordway were thought for 1 human + 7 NPC's, and without a specific profession in mind. If you're running a Paragon then it doesn't really matters what you're running as long as you have some serious hex and condition removal. Barbs is extensively used by the H/H'ers (which, as I said, account for most of the HM'ers) and doesn't needs a buff. --Alf's Hitman 00:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

1. Of course it is, but a 1 second cast means you don't need a 40/40 set.

2. They are if you need to use a 40/40 set instead of Fortitude Mods on your weapons.

4. I agree, most of them are, but I'm trying to find a way around that. XD

5. My main PvE character is my Imbagon because PvE is already boring and I stopped playing Guild Wars a couple months ago. Curses are great, I just want Barbs to have a 1 second cast so I can keep thinking up builds I'll never play.

6. Heroes are fail with Assassin's Promise, and running Discord on every team member means that the team will be killing one monster every ~3 seconds, which is mediocre at best, considering one buffed-up physical could kill 3 monsters in that same amount of time.

7. See 5. Curses are actually great, I just want a shorter casting time on Barbs and probably a shorter recharge on Mark of Pain for even better physical support.

8. I care more about performance than convenience because theorycrafting>actually playing the game, for me.

9. My Healer would be a GDW+Ether Renewal+Infuse Health+Heal Party+Mindbender+Aura of Restoration, and I'd bring an N/Mo Orders with some Hex/Condition removal. Add an Imbagon and a bunch of Criscythes and you're good to go.

10. Blocking is easy to avoid/prevent.

11. I'm working on a two man+Heroes build atm. It has the Ether Renewal Healer mentioned above, an Imbagon, two IA Rangers, an Orders Necro, two Scythe Heroes, Quickening Zephyr, a shitload of energy management, an SS Necromancer and a lot of Splinter Weapon. ــѕт.мıкε 01:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, guess what: (a) Barbs doesn't need a casting time of 1, it's fine as it is. (b) ANet is not going to change it anytime soon because they obviously agree with (a), and they, like myself, couldn't really care less about your fantasies about builds that you will never use anyway. Barbs has a 2 second cast time. It's going to stay that way. Get over it. King Neoterikos 02:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Drop the attitude please. --Shadowcrest 02:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Tbh, I'd probably take Mindbender whenever I felt like using Barbs because recasting it on recharge takes up a ~39% of your time, and with a 1 second cast, it would only take about 29%. It would be pretty great as a prerequisite hex on a Sin's bar in PvP (even though Sins are becoming less and less useful), but a 2 second recharge holds it back. ــѕт.мıкε 12:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

So, first, lrn2math. Second, you want a widely used and well balanced skill which you're probably the only one who doesn't uses it so you can make fantasy builds and create variations of already existing blow-shit up ways that you won't put up to practice? Right:

1.- I'd still take a 40/40 set for SS, Enfeebling, MoP, Defile, etc.

2.- Superior runes are fail, period.

3.- You can't work around it. ANet can, but it's unlikely they will.

4.- PvE becomes boring after a while, and it becomes incredibly boring with an Imbagon. No need to pull, no need to flag, no need to think but only press SY!

5.- If you're thinking up of ways to blow shit up then you're probably best with OP PvE skills.

6.- AP is for the player, evidently. Buffed up physicals still need to pre-buff themselves and actually move to their target. That's why martial damage is greater than caster damage, it's downside is the time you spend moving to their target. That's what makes GW's battle mechanics so much better than other RPG's.

7.- AP for MoP.

8.- Eh, lol?

9.- Needs moar buff-bitches.

10.- Indeed.

11.- Paragon DPS > Ranger DPS. Degeneration through conditions is meh at best in PvE.

12.- Sins don't need any buffs. Sins are a broken concept in a game like GW. The more nerfed and less used they are, the better. --Alf's Hitman 18:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

My concern is that with a 2 second cast, you wouldn't be able to keep up with the already insane amounts of damage a couple Critscythes with Asuran Scan can deal. Paragons are okay for single-target DPS, but I prefer to have a shitload of AoE so I can blow up 3 monsters at a time, with or without PvE-only skills.

Yes, your melee does have to run to their targets, but IMSes help quite a bit. "Fall Back!" on the Imbagon is a favourite of mine. ــѕт.мıкε 12:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Broken?

It's either broken or arrows don't deal physical damage. I din't see any +damage with the Candy Cane Bow, nor with a regular bow and Needling, there's also no additional damagepacket to trigger EBSoH and the damage on a critical hit is the same with Barbs as it is without (55 vs AL60 - Deldrimor Recurve, 12 Marks, 12 Curses). Amy Awien 01:14, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

The necromancer that casts Barbs sees the extra damage, not the attacker. 01:17, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

I see, that makes sense, I could have, should have tried that. Well, thanks. Amy Awien 01:21, January 24, 2010 (UTC)