Talk:Doppelganger

Perhaps we need a new type of page. Tatics/Pagename. This would solve a lot of the issues we've had regarding how much info to put on some pages... thoughts? Gravewit 02:53, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

Has including tactics/hints/spoilers in sections in the main articles proven to be controversial here? If so, I apologize: I'm new here and wasn't aware of the controversy. In such case moving them into subarticles might be ok, although it brings up the issue of whether it should be Pagename/Tactics or Tactics/Pagename. For what it may be worth, Wikipedia strongly discourages the use of subpages in the main article namespace. --Saucepan 06:15, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either, but I didn't realise Wikipedia discouraged it. I think the way it is now is fine. I think if someone comes to a wiki on Guild Wars they can expect to find spoilers. <LordBiro>/<Talk> 06:20, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

I was aware of wikipedia's policy, I just can't think of a better way to do some of the stuff we do. Gravewit 06:28, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

The argument on Wikipedia is very persuasive, at least to me. If we want to split this page into sub-articles then I agree that we should not use subpages, but rather just regular articles. <LordBiro>/<Talk> 06:50, 17 Jun 2005 (EST)

What I was thinking we needed, was a special format template for stuff that is spoiler. This way, folks would have to highlight with their mouse the text in order to be able to read it.Fengol

Hey Fengol, I don't think that kind of thing is necessary, but at most we could have a sign on the top of certain pages saying spoiler!. The thing is this would appear at the top of a large proportion of our pages. I think it's easier to say that, since this is a wiki on Guild Wars, you can expect spoilers. <LordBiro>/<Talk> 20:38, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)

Doppelganger using Healing Breeze

I've seen a couple of people claim that the AI never uses Healing Breeze, but LordBiro says it does. Maybe it only uses it sometimes? I just had a guildmate beat the dopp. easily using only healing breeze and zealot's fire. He claims the AI never used breeze once. Maybe the AI only uses it if it has a harm-over-time debuff active? That would be consistent with how the NPC healers use the spell. If so, we should reinstate the hint to bring breeze along. --Saucepan 11:50, 19 Jun 2005 (EST)

Ah right. I might give it another try... I am certain that the only healing spell on me was Healing Breeze (since I was told the doppelganger would not use it) and that he did in fact heal himself. If you are certain that this is my mistake then please feel free to put the info back :) <LordBiro>/<Talk> 21:34, 19 Jun 2005 (EST)

I did some experimenting tonight with my Mo/N20.

Trial 1: I equipped Reversal of Fortune and Healing Breeze. Dopp stood off with a bow, and cast Reversal of Fortune on itself while I used Breeze and plinked away with staff. Dopp never used Breeze. I was gradually winning, but became impatient with its constant use of Reversal of Fortune and decided to start over without it.

Trial 2: With only Healing Breeze equipped, Dopp unexpectedly pulled out an axe and closed to melee. By repeatedly casting Breeze on myself (as much for the Divine Favor healing as for the health regen) I could stay alive indefinitely while plinking away at it with my staff. Dopp never used Breeze even as its health slowly dropped to zero, and I won the fight.

Trial 3: I added Life Siphon on the theory that the AI would use Breeze to counter a health drain effect. This didn't work out because its Siphon canceled out my Siphon. Oops.

Trial 4: I tried a complex plan involving interplay of 8 Monk and Necro skills and got owned badly. Dopp didn't use Breeze, nor seem to need it.

Trial 5: I simplified and used just Healing Breeze, Divine Boon, and Dark Pact. This worked well: Dopp still never used Breeze, or thought of recasting Boon on itself for the quick, inexpensive heal. Instead it cast Pact until it was at half health (and possibly out of energy), then used its bow. I healed myself, then when I had a comfortable lead I quickly Pacted it to death. There was time to cast Breeze only 3 or 4 times so this may be a bonus-capable tactic.

When you tried it, did you have Reversal of Fortune or some other indirect healing effect? Or maybe any kind of self-buff, and it was healing as a Divine Favor side-effect?

If my hunch is right a warrior, ranger, or mesmer with a bleed or damage-over-time skill might be required to get the AI to use Breeze. I'll try it myself if I ever get down there with the right kind of character. --Saucepan 18:07, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)

Since I am truly the canonical no-lifer, I tried the Trial 5 tactic 3 more times to see if I could score the bonus. No attempt took longer than 45 seconds -- my best attempt was 30 seconds even -- and the bonus text claims you have 50 seconds. However, nothing special happened: just the 100xp for defeating an even-level mob and the appropriate random single loot drop. Maybe you have to get the bonus before you ascend or not at all? --Saucepan 18:30, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)

Good stuff Saucepan! I suppose it must have just been me then :) Perhaps, like you said, he was healing himself indirectly through other buffs and I failed to spot it. This is fairly comprehensive stuff, so I can't argue with the Doppelganger's use of Healing Breeze! :) <LordBiro>/<Talk> 20:40, 20 Jun 2005 (EST)

Conveniently my main character is a Monk/Ranger, so I'll try to test this healing breeze + condition theory :) <LordBiro>/<Talk> 02:24, 21 Jun 2005 (EST)

Does the Bonus work?

Does anyone know whether the bonus actually works? I killed it to ascend in about 45 seconds and got no indication about this. You don't get the normal mission experience regardless I think, so it might be some sort of bug. Dlanod

I believe it may be bugged. On my first attempt I killed the Doppelganger in slightly more then one minute - obviously too long for the bonus. Now I did it again and after several attempts got him down after 27 seconds (woohoo! (for the record: dust trap, flame trap, barbed trap, prince of failure and dark pact)). I also wrote down my total XP on a piece of paper to check whether maybe something was rewarded without notice: I got only the 100 XP for killing a level 20 opponent. --84.175.123.80 05:57, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)

I'm quite sure now that the bonus doesn't work the way it should. Just ascended with another character, killed the doppelganger in very well under 50 secs and got nothing special. One thing I observed is, though: I only got an item off the doppelganger when achieving the bonus. This may be coincidence, though (would be a very lousy bonus reward). --84.175.123.80 08:05, 10 Jul 2005 (EST)

I ascended for the first time last night, and ended up killing the Doppleganger in under 20 seconds. I picked up the 50k, and what looked like 100 exp, but didn't see anything else. The bonus probably isn't working still. LordKestrel 15:07, 20 Jul 2005 (EST)

If you're level 20, you get 100 XP for killing a level 20 mob. --Fyren 15:53, 20 Jul 2005 (EST)

Tactics not valid?

I wonder if some of the recent patches have improved the AI so as to made some of these tactics obselete. I had a terrible time getting my N/E to ascend, and tried several times loading up with lots of useless health sac skills (and not using them myself). The doppelganger wouldn't use them either, and just pounded my face into the ground with his bow. I finally eeked by him by using the AOE trick against him, then running past him long enough for him to use Chilblains. I escaped the damage and he poisoned himself.

Also, the area you face off in is completely flat, how can you get a height advantage?--Jackel 03:09, 29 Jul 2005 (EST)

There is always a risk that game advice can be obsoleted at any time, but I haven't seen any evidence of any major AI changes yet. The advice to load up with useless spells is a generalization -- the AI does like to cast self-buffs, and will not hesitate to use any sacrifice spell that debuffs or damages you, but there may be some spells that, like Healing Breeze, will not be used since whatever condition triggers the AI to use them does not occur. (For example, it won't use Offering of Blood unless it needs the energy.)

As for the height advantage, you can either run up the ramp you come down on, or go up one of the ramps that curve up around each side of the arena. Either way the dopp will follow you. --Saucepan 07:46, 29 Jul 2005 (EST)