Talk: Game updates/20080417

The legendary Thursday Nerf returns! Jamster 23:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Goodbye Shockwave spike teams. --Voidvector 23:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone check Sway stuff, quick! Jamster 23:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

more time between amazing splinter barrage spikes on mobs now... that way my favorite thing to do with a vampiric bow...

last comment was mine, sorry i forgot to sign Unwisesage 00:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

They nerfed death pact sig again -_- Also, PvX is gonna get swamped with fevered dreams/fragility builds now >.> ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 00:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think Anet nerfed about every other character of mine in this update. I f---ing sucks. Thanks Anet. Urock 01:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Shadow Prison

→ moved from Talk:Game updates/20080410

You forgot to nerf Shadow Prison!! Usual work on ritualist, what about put some exhaustion? :) --Yukoishii 00:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

oh, i fail at wiki x( --Yukoishii 00:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Indents are : and wikilinks are double brackets.Entrea [Talk] 00:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Hah! I finally caught Entrea failing! Intent -> indent much!? ;) --Shadowcrest 00:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

For posting in the wrong place? Not your fault link for nerf update was linking here.-- 00:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

For misspelling "indent"Entrea [Talk] 00:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Methinks alari was talking to Yuko --Shadowcrest 00:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I was on-topic :)-- 00:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Methinks this convo should be moved to the right update.Entrea [Talk] 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

dps

i really hope thats not accurate as death pact signet is getting more and more worthless as we go on. if they are going to keep taking away the benefits the whole pact gets kinda not worth it.—♥Jedi♥Rogue♥ 00:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

no more power reses :( that was one of the rits key features -- Lann 01:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Izzy randomly swings his nerfbat

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while his buffbat rots. -- Lann 01:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What is that anyways?-- 01:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Me shaking my head. -- Lann 01:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was a lumpy wheel of cheese :)-- 01:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's Lelouch of the Rebellion. 01:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Regina's Dev Update notes

"This month's update is unique. It is a "temporary tournament update" targeted at the final cash-prize tournament, which will take place at the end of April. The skill changes are temporary and will be in effect for only two weeks. They are all geared toward addressing the most immediate issues with Guild Battles.

In order to reduce the possible negative impact on PvE play, we will be reverting the changes on May 1st. For future tournaments, we aim to focus on changes that will not impact PvE play at all." ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 01:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

"Possible inpact on PvE play" Lolwut? Do they not realize that PvE is horribly awfully unbalanced because of how much they favour PvP?--DNA 03:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

At least this goes to show that they may actually make a half assed attempt. We shall see, but this user is optimistic. -- Sk8 (T/C) 03:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Until they nerf Ursan Blessing, any claim that ArenaNet cares about pve play balance is ridiculous. Quizzical 03:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Ehh... ppl bitch too much bout Ursan. If anything just lower the health gain to be comparable to Volfen Blessing, and it will be fine. -- Sk8 (T/C) 03:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

So, you want PvE to be completely balanced? I hope you realize balanced means that the opposide side has an equal chance of beating you that you have of beating them. Basically, balanced PvE=8 humans vs. "x" # of human like enemies. 98.163.101.147 19:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Imo, they should have seperate skill balance for PvE to PvP, thus solving the problem of which side balance updates are aimed at. Everybody wins...untill someone starts whining about having to remember too many skill descriptions-- - (Talk/Contribs) 19:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Except, that they can't do that because of the way the game is programmed. One skill = 1 skill, not 2 skills. — Poki#3 , 20:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

No pvp-useable skill has greatly unbalanced pve. One can talk about whether this or that skill is a little too powerful, but in every case, it's at least debateable. Furthermore, nearly all pvp-useable skills have pvp circumstances where they are far inferior to some alternatives; the only exception that comes to mind is some direct single-target heals. Indeed, if one were to make a list of the skills most unbalancing in pve, the top several would all be pve-only skills.

But there is a difference between being merely unbalanced and outright game-breaking. Save yourselves and pain inverter might be overpowered, but at least they have circumstances where they aren't helpful. Where does Ursan Blessing fail? How, apart from Ursan Strike, can you deal 150 armor ignoring damage per 4 seconds to any arbitrary target no matter what it is doing? How, apart from Ursan Roar, can you weaken all enemies within earshot? Only a few other skills in the game have anything remotely near Ursan Rage's knockdown power, even without the heavy area damage. To have offensive capabilities far stronger than anything possible with pvp-useable skills and simultaneously have quite powerful defensive skills is just ridiculous. Is it wrong to want some variety in my gameplay rather than the same build (without regard to class) with the same skills used in the same manner being the optimal approach everywhere? Quizzical 20:58, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

First off... If you want variety, just don't use Ursan. No one is forcing you to use it. 150 armor ignoring dmg in 4 seconds... hmm 2 casts of Necrosis or Dark Pact come pretty close. Vampiric Spirit combined with any spamable spells, and what about Grenth's Balance? That has the potential to do huge amounts of damage. I'm not going to continue searching for skills that can easily do 150 armor ignoring damage in under 4 seconds, but you get the point. Weakness point... Enfeebling Blood, Ward of Weakness, Staggering Force, "You Are All Weaklings!", Weakness Trap... None of course do the earshot as your original argument was, but there is still plenty of AoE weakness in other skills. Knockdown- plenty of skills have knockdown ability, albeit none of them match the damage equivalent. I think Ursan may need minor tweaks, but I am getting sick of people complaining so damn much about the skill. It was made as an elite for a reason, and it removes the ability to use any of your other equipped skills while it is active. The only times where the skill appears to be overpowered is in areas such as DoA, where 5 of your members have the skill, which can be said about a half a dozen other skills in the game if they are stacked and spiked. -- Sk8 (T/C) 21:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd personally call the defense buffs from ursan the bits that need changing. Lord of all tyria 21:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the armor buff is fair, I think the health boost needs to be knocked down to be comparable to Volfen Blessing -- 60-100 instead of 100-200. -- Sk8 (T/C) 21:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If Ursan Blessing were 150 health in 4 seconds, then nothing for 30 seconds, that wouldn't be the problem. It's 150 armor ignoring damage every 4 seconds perpetually. Necrosis does damage more slowly, and even that is conditional, with a hex or condition required, so sometimes the damage doesn't take, as the hex or condition gets removed. Even so, that's effectively arguing that Ursan Blessing isn't overpowered because there's another overpowered pve-only skill, even though the other one is quite a bit weaker. Dark Pact does substantially less damage per six seconds than Ursan Strike does per 4, and at the cost of a considerable health sacrifice. Grenth's Balance is only useable once per 10 seconds, and if you spam it every 11 seconds, it will usually do very little. Regarding weakness, surely you are aware that there is an enormous difference between adjacent range and earshot, and you're again comparing to other pve-only skills. And then on top of that damage capacity, you get quite powerful +armor and +health skills? Strip both of those out entirely and Ursan would still be the highest damage output available, but at least not make the users take nearly twice as much damage to kill.

But the ultimate proof that Ursan Blessing is so ridiculously overpowered is how many people use it as their build. Is there any other particular build that even a small fraction as large of the player base uses at any given time?

As for the "just don't use Ursan" line, one could just as well have said, if you don't like the duping bug, just don't use it. After all, the duping bug unbalanced the game quite a bit less than Ursan Blessing does. Should ArenaNet have left it in? Quizzical 22:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I wish I had eotn so i can ursan on my mesmer lol Lost-Blue 22:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

We should just remove all PvE skills from the game, because apparently, they are all overpowered. -- Sk8 (T/C) 23:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Now that's just silly. The vast majority of pve skills are fine, some even need a buff or change of mechanic. I'll stop here though before I make a comparison to nerfing paragons Ezekiel [Talk] 02:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Shall I hand you a sarcasm detector. And players will always find something to whine about which annoys me to no end. 222.153.236.6 02:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you need that detector yourself. Ezekiel [Talk] 04:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

About "Just don't use Ursan". Well that's great and all, and i don't use Ursan, and other decent people don't use Ursan, the problem is you won't get a group in high-end PvE WITHOUT Ursan, and Ursan means that people can farm stuff much faster, meaning a surplus of easy money. Isn't that the reason they introduced Loot-scaling? >_>--DNA 20:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)