Talk:Illusion of Pain

I wonder if you could shatter this hex? Shandy 21:08, 6 March 2006 (CST)

I'm sure you could with Shatter Delusions. You can shatter any Mesmer hex spell with it. --Gares Redstorm 22:06, 6 March 2006 (CST)

But why would you want to shatter this hex on a foe? I think Shandy was wondering aloud what would happen if you used Shatter Hex on an ally. Would it heal them and damage nearby foes? That does seem like quite a powerful (i.e., unbalanced) hex removal effect, given how fast Shatter Hex recharges. — Stabber 22:08, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Ah no, I was talking about Shatter Delusions. I read this skill effect as causing degen to target foe, then healing target foe. Shattering the hex before the last effect can trigger would be nice, unless it's a lump sum heal and not a regen heal. Which, thinking about it, it would be. So Shatter Delusion wouldn't be any good! Shandy 22:17, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Yeah, I'm 98.613% certain that the healing effect triggers on hex removal, kind of like how Phantom Pain works. — Stabber 22:21, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Its not a very good description of the skill, but I was thinking she thought you could bypass the healing at the end by using Shatter Delusions. You get the massive degen, the damage shatter delusions deals, but you don't get the healing at the end. Heals Afterwards kind of can be anything.

And yes, Shatter Hex works on all hexes and damages those around, but you would not want to cast Ilusion of Pain on an ally. The description says, heals afterwards if the target is still alive. Thats got to be some massive degen. But, nothing can be concrete without testing this skills and seeing the damage/heal ranges. --Gares Redstorm 22:23, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Regarding: "but you would not want to cast Ilusion of Pain on an ally" -- I think you misunderstood my comment. If a foe casts IoP on your ally, you would try to Shatter it from that ally to get both the healing benefit (on the ally) and the damage (on foes near that ally). Regardless, I don't think hexes can can target allies. — Stabber 22:29, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Bypass healing effect by refreshing hex?

Will the healing effect be triggered if you refresh the hex before the 10 seconds are over? I mean, can you bypass the healing effect if you keep up the hex all the time, by repeated refreshing, until the foe is dead? -- Tetris L --195.33.166.40 10:47, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Three possible situations I think... It might work like certain enchantments which stack and provide the healing while the next hex is still on. Enchantments like Verata's Aura which I wish they would fix. Then again it might end the previous one triggering the healing and start the new one. Or finally it may do it the way you just suggested. But I'm thinking its the 2nd one. | Chuiu 10:52, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Actually, Tetris' suggestion is the only way I could this skill to effectively work. The skill is evidently unsuitable to kill an opponent. --Nilles 17:18, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

Its great in isolated situations to finish off opponents. It effectively causes up to 200 health in degeneration so you could cast it under 50% health and combine that with some damage dealing (Phantom Pain + Shatter Delusions) to quickly take out the opponent. | Chuiu 18:33, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

It ends the prevous one, triggers the healing, and then the one you just cast starts. Recasting has no effect in other words. Suggest using with Mantra of Persistence. Chuiu (T/C) 20:46, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

So wait, does refreshing hex trigger the healing? It says otherwise on the article.. Silk Weaker 03:33, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

Recasting IoP over an older copy does not trigger the healing. --68.142.14.33 03:42, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

It'd be obvious then, mantra of persistance, then continuous degen, perhaps with phantom pain to cover it (which also means that you need less illusion magic to max out degen. Might try it one day, hmm. Silk Weaker 07:49, 16 July 2006 (CDT)

How would Scourge Healing work with this? I'm assuming since this heals at the end, Scourge Healing would in fact casue them to take damage. Amyrlin Seat 03:34, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Or, since you casts the hex which causes the heal, you should take damage. Gonna test it... Yaki 13:52, 24 January 2007 (CST)

It would seem that there is a bug with this setup, because scourge healing doesn't trigger at all on the heal. Yet it is classified as healing because deep wound reduces the amount healed at the end. It looks like the game can't figure out where the heal came from so it just doesn't damage the attacker or the target. Duncan Dragoon

Interesting... ;) Yaki 10:03, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Scourge healing probably won't deal damage because of IoP unless there's three teams involved. See Talk:Scourge_Healing#Heal_Area. --Fyren 21:06, 5 February 2007 (CST)

First cast Phantom Pain, then this. Yull inflict a deep wound right before the healing kicks in, reducing it drasticly. :) --Rickyvantof 13:27, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

That's if they survive after the deep wound spike lol Choson4eva 06:43, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

Scourge Healing?

Who loses damage with scourge healing, you or your foe. If it's your foe it will be a great "coenzyme." I'll test this later.--Zoldon 20:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

From other examples, the hex itself probably counts as the healer, so no-one takes damage. Lord of all tyria 20:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

"It would seem that there is a bug with this setup, because scourge healing doesn't trigger at all on the heal. " Taken from the above discussion --- -- (s)talkpage 20:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Effectiveness

I wonder if it would be possible to add a "Nett-damage" in the table. As it looks now: at 16 Illusion Magic, the spell has a health degen of 10. 10 * 10 * 2 = 200 damage. When the skill ends, target is healed for 150 health. 200 - 150 = 50, seems unbelievably underpowered. A health stealing for 10 energy like Vampiric Gaze does more damage and heals you. Thommygun 19:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

a sin in ra had this with 8 illusion magic and shadow stepped and used a hex chain, the healing outweighed the damage he did. (I was a derv) Lost-Blue 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Update

just tested heals if hex is removed prematurely so the heal is actually triggered after the hex ends not "after 10 seconds", this also means that the heal will be delayed by lengthening the hex just as before--68.103.134.125 03:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Whoopee, 150hp "at-range" heals for the enemy with Illusion of Pain, Shatter Delusions (@ Dom = 0), add Aneurysm, Iron Mist and Crystal Wave for more fun :)

How many skills are more effective at 14 attribute than at 15?

Power Creeped

Imba beyond imba now. Needs to heal whenever the hex is refreshed at the very least. -- 20:17, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

No way, that would completely ruin the skill (the heal is 50% of the damage it deals). The fact it has 15 pips of degen is what's wrong. Weaken Knees had 5 degen and 15 DPS while moving. That's 12.5 pips, and only while moving. AND IT'S ELITE. Lowering the DPS of Illusion of Pain would make removing it more potent. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 20:24, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

IoP is currently 30 DPS on its own, maintainable and takes 1 skillslot. In comparison an average warrior build has ~40-50 DPS using 7 skills. I know how ANet intended this skill, but power creep got it like Illusion of Haste. These skills are meant to be just that, Illusions. And if someone dies while suffering from illusions because the mind or w/e can't take it anymore that seems logical. I don't know if you get my point. But it has damage that is laid-out for using on lowhealth targets so the heal doesn't kick in. That's why it's imba beyond imba right now because you can just refresh it over and over. -- 20:30, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

How illusions kill (scroll down a bit). --Macros 20:48, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Hahaha :D imagine male mesmers....EWW. -- 20:50, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. It deals 30 DPS (15 pips of degen). That's what's wrong with it. The fact it doesn't heal if you refresh it doesn't make a difference (makes sense; you maintain the illusion). --- -- (contribs) (talk) 21:41, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

They should make it 5 Degen, +3 degen and 5DPS if under 75% Health and +2 Degen and 5DPS if under 50% Health. -- 22:30, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Retarded skill --83.83.124.234 13:36, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

It should be balanced in reference to conjure nightmare, it has same cost/cast time but a slightly longer recharge and nets a little more damage if you let the heal go off, while providing a lot more dmg while its in effect, thus making the heal go off each time its renewed balances it in reference to the other degen skills in illusion magic. 128.213.23.17 01:22, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

The problem is how fast it does the damage, that if you refresh it before it ends it doesn't heal at all, so the damage is WAY higher, and probably most importantly: it's essentially epic degen with the raw damage, but isn't capped out like normal degen is --Gimmethegepgun 01:26, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Compare to

Spectral Agony --Macros 04:57, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Healing vs damage/degen: 6 seconds is a better rule of thumb

Elapsed Time\Illusion Rank	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21
10	45	38	61	54	77	70	93	86	109	102	125	118	141	134	157	150	143	166	159	182	175	198
9	36	29	49	42	62	55	75	68	88	81	101	94	114	107	127	120	113	133	126	146	139	159
8	27	20	37	30	47	40	57	50	67	60	77	70	87	80	97	90	83	100	93	110	103	120
7	18	11	25	18	32	25	39	32	46	39	53	46	60	53	67	60	53	67	60	74	67	81
6	9	2	13	6	17	10	21	14	25	18	29	22	33	26	37	30	23	34	27	38	31	42
5	0	-7	1	-6	2	-5	3	-4	4	-3	5	-2	6	-1	7	0	-7	1	-6	2	-5	3
4	-9	-16	-11	-18	-13	-20	-15	-22	-17	-24	-19	-26	-21	-28	-23	-30	-37	-32	-39	-34	-41	-36
3	-18	-25	-23	-30	-28	-35	-33	-40	-38	-45	-43	-50	-48	-55	-53	-60	-67	-65	-72	-70	-77	-75
2	-27	-34	-35	-42	-43	-50	-51	-58	-59	-66	-67	-74	-75	-82	-83	-90	-97	-98	-105	-106	-113	-114
1	-36	-43	-47	-54	-58	-65	-69	-76	-80	-87	-91	-98	-102	-109	-113	-120	-127	-131	-138	-142	-149	-153

The chart above shows the net health loss (gain), assuming that both the damage and degen are applied. If I had to apply a rule of thumb, I'd suggest that you really don't want the hex removed sooner than 6 seconds (5 seconds means that, at best, you wasted 10 energy). Of course, the more important rule of thumb is that you want to spike the target to death before any of this matters.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:43, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Your calculations are wrong, one pip of degen = -2hp per second, so at 12 spec it does 27dmg per second, thus nets 141 dmg with the heal. 01:17, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Crud. You are correct that I was incorrect. I've updated the chart and my notes above accordingly. The better rule of thumb: don't let the hex be removed prematurely.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:06, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Even better rule of thumb: Don't let the hex end untill your target is dead :P --El_Nazgir 14:35, September 29, 2009 (UTC)