Talk: Rapid Fire

Revision as of 15:17, 26 August 2007

This solves some of the problems that Marksmanship influenced Rangers have with DoT, you used to need to splash Beast Mastery (For inneficient speed buffs) or use Lightning Reflexes which required too much investment into expertise to reduce its downtime/energy cost added to the energy costs of your attack skills. I for one love this skill, and love its name even more. Zulu Inuoe 06:38, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

"only works with bows" is this confirmed the skill description says nothing to imply this

Though, to be realistic, you'd be an imbecile if you used this with something OTHER than a bow, seeing how it's linked with marks... --Gimmethegepgun 08:45, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

some people like to do that personaly i would say your an imbecile for useing this at all seeing as how its a preperation but thats just me.

Per Izzy, this does only work with bows. Despite what you say, if it worked with non-bow weapons, we'd see Sins and Wars speccing just enough into marks to get use out of this. Personally I think this needs to be a stance to see any use though. Arshay Duskbrow 19:28, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

If it was a stance then Tiger's Fury, Bestial Fury, and Heket's Rampage would be basically pointless --Gimmethegepgun 06:11, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Wewt, IAS preperation.

Not if the stance still only worked while using a bow. Although I can't help but add that those stances are fairly useless anyway... Arshay Duskbrow 22:38, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

It would be totally worthless compared to TF, BF, HR, etc. or even good old Lightning Reflexes...except for the fact that it can be kept up infinitely, and doesn't require a three-way attribute split to do so. Definitely oriented towards pure Marksmen builds.

(T/C) 06:27, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

I don't really like this, better to take RtW and some IAS stance. The Hobo 06:29, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Well you gotta admit, points to Beast Mastery always makes you feel kinda...guilty. What other IAS staces are there anyways with reasonable duration/recharge rate? Flail? :)

(T/C) 06:33, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Yep, Flail is teh winnar here. Using your prep to attack faster seems like a huge waste when skills like Apply Poison, RtW or CG exist. The Hobo 06:52, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Heh. Well, if/when Rangers ever get some really nice Stances in Expertise or Marksmanship that can be kept up infinitely, then perhaps this will see some use. Kinda like a Natural Stride but for Expertise.

(T/C) 06:56, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Darn this skill would be great with a Vow of Strength ranger build.

VoS builds use RtW because it gives extra damage, which is multiplied by VoS --Gimmethegepgun 15:55, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

This skill feels kinda pointless, and is exaggerated by the fact it synergises with Practiced Stance >.>

I suppose I could see how this might be useful. Counters Wild Blow which removes stances and most of the Ranger's IAS stances have huge recharge times. Preparations cannot be removed except by interrupting them. Admittedly, there aren't a lot of places where Wild Blow would be used except in some PvP. I'd certainly use it for when i do CMs. Swapping out RtW for FW on my conditions ranger. --BeeD 00:56, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Very few people bring Wild Blow except for Dervs. Interrupters are everywhere, even in pve. In other words: this skill is meh. The Hobo 20:24, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Hah, Dervs never even used to bring Wild Blow until I made the Lyssa's Avatar build. --Boottspurr 09:25, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

No. That's not true. I had not even been reading builds on here/PvXwiki and I had a friend bring Wild Blow on a derv.

The Paintballer (T/C)

This skill is worthless. Looks like the several 'bows are underpowered' idiots I've seen requesting this have got their wish. Good if it was a stance of course, near junk as a prep. Between frenzy, flail, hekets and tf I will never use this. Phool 20:43, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Wasted prep, no thank you.PvEreanor 11:53, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Making this a stance would render all the other IAS stances useless, not to mention that this would be WAY overpowered. If you look at all the other IAS skills that Rangers (using secondary prof ones aside) have access to, ALL but one are linked to Beast Mastery. Bestial/Tiger's Fury only grant a 25% boost but disables your non-attack skills. Heket's Rampage ends if you use an attack skill. Rampage as One needs a pet and Lightning Reflexes has a 30s recharge. The only drawback Rapid Fire has is a longer cast time, but it has a huge duration for an IAS and it can be maintained indefinitely. Personally, I'd say this has definite potential. --BeeD 22:55, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

"Only" drawback? You mean other than that huge "no preps" one? DKS01 20:10, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

Let's do the math

Considering this is a full-archer skill, we'll calculate with 16 Marksmanship on a lvl20 character. Our target will have 70 Armor Rating, thus an Armor Effect of 96%. Damage is (15-28) x 96% = (14-27). Average damage per hit is 21. (Source:Damage calculation)
Calculating Damage Per Second (DPS):
(Average Damage/Attack Speed) = DPS
With 16 Marksmanship, the best option to use instead of Rapid Fire is Read the Wind, adding +10 damage to each arrow. Average damage would be 31.

Weapon	Normal Attack Speed	33% IAS	NAS Damage Per Second	33%IAS Damage Per Second	NAS Read the Wind DPS
Longbow class	2.4 seconds	1.6 seconds	8.75 DPS	13.1 DPS	12.9 DPS
Flatbow class	2.0 seconds	1.3 seconds	10.5 DPS	16.1 DPS	15.5 DPS
Horn Bow class	2.7 seconds	1.8 seconds	7.7 DPS	11.6 DPS	11.5 DPS
Recurve Bow class	2.4 seconds	1.6 seconds	8.75 DPS	13.1 DPS	12.9 DPS
Shortbow class	2.0 seconds	1.3 seconds	10.5 DPS	16.1 DPS	15.5 DPS

Conclusion: Heck with Rapid Fire, I'm not trading faster arrow flight for a little bit of damage.PvEreanor 11:00, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Except that if you read the Attack speed article, you'd realize how your math is flawed. A 33% IAS actually increases the overall attack rate by nearly 50% (49.3%) and results in quite a bit higher damage than you stated. And Hornbow calculation is off because it has armor penetration. Also, more flaws exist in that effective 70 AL is approximately a 16% damage reduction, and not 4%. Not to mention crits... --Gimmethegepgun 11:03, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Normal Attack Speed DPS for Recurve Bow is 8.75 ---> 8.75 + 50% = 13.1

PvEreanor 11:13, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Fine, but my other points still stand --Gimmethegepgun 11:18, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Recurve bow: 2.4 Normal Attack Speed.

10 seconds/2.4 (NAS) = 4.16 hits.
10 seconds/1.6 (33%IAS) = 6.25 hits.(4.16 + 50% = 6.25)
4.16 hits x 31 Average damage = 129.16 Damage in 10 seconds
6.25 hits x 21 Average damage = 131.25 Damage in 10 seconds.

Same thing. I'm just comparing Rapid Fire with Read the Wind. Your other points may still stand, but my conclusion is still right.

YOU DIDNT ADD IN THE ARMOR PENETRATION FROM THE HORNBOW BUDDY.

And then what happens if you add in a Vampiric mod, Conjure, or even moreso, VoS? That is what this is meant for --Gimmethegepgun 11:30, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

or kindle or glass arrows perhaps...? The can't make the comparison you seem to be trying to. At least until a stance version of a/p, kindle and rtw are made. Using this over hekets + another prep with VoS would generally be very stupid, despite that 33% IAS can be relied upon to increase the dps by considerably more than an extra few points. (edit conflict) Phool 11:58, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

If you bring bonus damage and Elites to the discussion. Here's my answer

PvEreanor 11:54, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Probably will own. Readem (talk*contribs) 16:59, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Probably. The Hobo 17:57, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Point Blank/Zojun's Shot need to have a 2 second recharge so you can spam them non-stop. Mending Touch should be also moved to Healing Prayers and Healing Touch should be improved, to give Rangers a replacement for Troll Unguent if they want to spec out of Wilderness Survival (meaning that this build could spec 14 Expertise, 12 Marksmanship, 6 Healing). With those improvements, this build MIGHT be as good as the standard Burning Arrow template. You're giving up up Savage Shot, one of the most powerful non-Elites in the game, in order to do more damage (but only at half-range, and it's perhaps not more damage at all in a large battle when you consider how degen can be spread with Apply Poison) and to have Escape instead of Natural Stride. Zuranthium 13:45, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Healing touch is not supposed to be used by any other profession other than monk. Don't get your hopes up bud. --Lann 15:33, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Perhaps that was ANET's intention when they first made the skill, but it was a bad idea that is way outdated now. Nobody at all uses the skill (for real PvP)...clearly needs to be improved. Zuranthium 20:08, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

D-shot because it is god-mode. This is also for gank, and speaking that it can afford to have less amounts of expertise, it can run a high Marks count, thus perhaps bring its damage for npc's, close to that of BA's. More defense as well through Escape. Readem (talk*contribs) 18:02, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Only With Bows

Are you sure? Could be my eyes, but I just tried it with daggers in Temple of Balthazar...-218.103.243.10 09:47, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

It's pretty daft to use this with anything other than a bow. Why else would you have points in Marksmanship? For Favorable Winds? >.> 2 second cast time IAS ftl (usually).

(T/C) 09:53, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

Ranger / Assassin	Attribute Rank
Expertise	11+1
Wilderness Survival	7+1
Marksmanship	6+1
Dagger Mastery	12

Archers die fast. I miss AoD Sins. SPs are so boring. Had fun with a few BYOB GvGs just now. Maan. I've missed overextending so much ever since I started playing mesmer. Some bullshit about mesmer being squishy.. pfft.

But anyway, pretty high DPS with just repeating, almost 0 energy problems (zealous) for a sin, and blossom is actually funny against herowat. AoD is always fun to play with, and it's... hmm, it's faster than any other solo ganker, though then again those are out of style now. The DPS is still good enough to outpressure non flagstand healing.

Chance of it being ever used = 0.01%, but, hey, it's good to dream. -Silk Weaker

Looks fun but still seems like a waste of Attribute points. I thought R/A was one of those dumb Wammo-like combos anyways. I see how it works - you cast your IAS and then Shadow Step in for the quick kill. I guess in PvP you can get away with that as a solo ganker or in splits or taking out dumb NPCs. Though it seems you can do the same job with just Assassin skills for faster selfheal and I guess A/W for an IAS. And in PvE this is not viable at all, unless you wanna take out just one enemy quick. Meh.

(T/C) 10:06, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

It is a bit of a gimmick, yeah, but try it and you might like it. I'll try to explain why it works (if not optimally)

Assassins tend to have lulls between their attacks, due perhaps to their recharge (which would be the case if you use horns), or waiting/choosing a unprotted target, and that 2 seconds plus aftercast is really not much of a problem. It really just stops you from auto-attacking, which, if you're a warrior, is really bad since your normal attacks deal a ton of damage and gains adrenaline, but no real losses for someone using assassin skills.

Compared to sins: I like Troll as a heal, and natural stride as an option, or rez sig, but that's me. The DPS, trust me, is a lot higher, and against NPCs, this is really much faster if you are experienced with the layout and the number of repeating strikes before blossom. In a split, it is very good in that the damage it does can usually ourpressure the enemy's healing, but still have shadow step unike warriors. I tried it in a 3 man split, I believe, and then had SoR. Switching between targets is lots of fun with AoD, and I imagine it's the same with /rt splits using weapon of warding.

The thing is with expertise, allowing an infinite spam of repeating strike, which is about 40 damage on warriors (armor ignore for the most part), which is okay. Death Blossom is so fun on frenzy warriors. Believe it or not, this thing can line back aginst melee heavy teams, though I must admit that guild sucked. But anyway, you can loop an infinite chain of attacks: Fox, Fang, Repeating, Repeating, Repeating, Blossom, Fox, Fang, Repeating... etc, but with only 1 repeating without an IAS. That's about +26 damage average, pretty decent for a novel idea.

AoD is just awesome. Sorry for repeating it. But I stepped to that LoD for every spike, and he had nothing left to infuse. I can also afford to spam the chains since the recharge is low, no energy issues, and the damage helps for the pressure at the same time.

Finally, an amazing fact: most damage against warriors or paragons hit just below 60, meaning that spirt bond = lol. -Silk Weaker 10:16, 26 August 2007 (CDT)

@@ Line 123: / Line 123: @@
   | Expertise | 11+1
   | Wilderness Survival | 7+1
-  | Marksmanship| 7+1
+  | Marksmanship| 6+1
   | Dagger Mastery | 12
 }}