Talk: Signet of Judgment

useless elite signets competition

Which one wins the most useless award? This one or Keystone Signet? — Stabber 01:27, 21 March 2006 (CST)

I think this does. I've used it, the knockdown is nice, and the damage isn't bad for a free skill, but once every 30 seconds is pretty pitiful. Keystone may not be much better put has the potential to improve with the added signets from Factions, while this will stay crappy. --Epinephrine 01:32, 21 March 2006 (CST)

You have to use Mantra of Inscriptions for most signets to be effective. In my Signet build, I use Signet of Judgment, but the build is more for fun than anything. A pure signet build is almost useless, unless you want to maintain enchantments. --Gares Redstorm 01:50, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Using Mantra of Inscriptions doesn't alter the relationship between the two signets though - it speeds both KS and SoJ up, so retain their "crappiness ratios" with respect to each other. Yes, SoJ can be useful, in particular as a source of damage that is unaffected by spellbreakers etc... thus SoJ spiking, but it's hard to come up with much else for it. Keystone signet however will benefit the new signets in factions (Signet of Disruption, Signet of Disenchantment, Hex-Eater Signet, Unnatural Signet etc...) so with an expanding signet list I have to give the edge to KS, which was already stronger in my book anyway. --Epinephrine 00:32, 24 March 2006 (CST)

This skill is basically a no-energy, armor-ignoring, shorter cast, shorter recharge Meteor (without knocking down the adjacent foes). It does less damage against low-armored opponents, and more damage against high-armored opponents. Personally, I have used this skill extensively to great effect in both PvE and the RA. I created a build-stub to illustrate my build using this skill, W/Mo Holy Smiter. I basically completed the whole high-end PvE campaign, with henchmen even, with this build. Combined with Bane Signet, Holy Strike, Symbol of Wrath, and Smite Hex, you can do prodigious spike damage. True, 3 of the skills have a recharge of 25 seconds or longer, but spaced evenly you can do pretty serious damage every 8 seconds. Throw Banish into the mix to add to any particular spike, and there's really no defense against it other than Protective Spirit or the damage reducing bonds (or simply running away). I have killed many foes in the RA outright within the first several seconds of combat. That being said, it is a little fragile against interrupts, so taking Warrior stances like Shield Stance or Disciplined Stance is almost a necessity. Anyway, I would say that Keystone Signet will NEVER be good in either PvE or PvP, and Signet of Judgment is vastly superior in my estimation. If you disagree, try my build out for a bit and see if you change your mind. --Tjoneil 21:35, 2 May 2006 (CDT

I agree. SOJ is an underrated skill. For PVE usage, it is generally a better skill than energy surge, Aecho + surge does damage in a large area, SOJ + mantra of signets does about the same. It is a free knockdown too, that cuts through spellbreaker. Also, it is good shutdown, especially when used with mantra of signets (2x SOJ, gives 4 total sec of knockdown) then activate mantra of inscriptions and get another in around 12 sec. In PVE this devastates bosses, and even is enough shutdown to pull an all henchie group through tougher bosses such as Willa the Unpleasant and Coventina. SOJ twice, then follow with bane sig, for 6 sec knockdown. An all signet smiting build (mo/mes or mes/mo) works quite pleasantly, since you have many signet skills that do respectable damage and with inscriptions, the recharge time is quite fast. Also, all the signets are essentially free, so you can maintain a few enchants if needed.

It seems like I'm one of three people in the entire GW universe that thinks that this is not a bad elite skill. I want to know why there is so much hate for it. Let me explain my position first: Rangers can be trappers, beastmasters, and barragers, and they can play any of those roles with decent success if you're using the right build. But for monks, the only choices you get are being a healbot or running a 55-farm build. When I'm too tired or too frustrated to play healer, I like using this skill in PvE for my smite build. It keeps you out of aggro, works with any armor build, bypasses energy denial, and does what it says. By "does what it says", I mean that every time you click it, it is almost a guaranteed knockdown and medium damage. You can't say that with something like Balthazar's Pendulum, which I don't know how you can seriously set it up for regular PvE play. The skill also bypasses Obsidian Flesh and Spellbreaker, both which are used by many monsters in the game. But the biggest reason why I use it is because it makes monks feel like they can be offensive for once. Yes, there are smite skills which allow you to put enchantments on either yourself or other players and possibly do more damage. But that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. It's great to just play for fun as opposed to be chained to the stupid Party Window and stare at all the red bars and icons. Now, is a monk a super-damage dealer using this skill? Heck, no. But at the same time, calling it a "trash" skill is the same closed-minded mentality that prevents any elementalist from running any build unless it has Searing Flames + Glowing Gaze. -- Kev (Edited to fix spelling)

Nicely said. Also, may I ask who the other 2 people are? I believe one is Entropy, and I guess the other is me. Any other takers? --Gimmethegepgun 18:10, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Me. PaintballerOWNZ 18:21, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Me 2. works well when ur maintaining enchants.Khold Phoenix 06:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill isn't crap, but for general pve and probably pvp as well this skill just doesn't have the firepower. As all smiting skills this does armor ignoring damage with a relatively long recharge. The damage isn't THAT good and I think that's because it does double damage versus undead and versus undead this skill (as all smiting skillz) just owns. I think there would be a fair chance on ballance if "holy damage" wouldn't deal additional damage to undead. As of the skill by itself, a free ranged KD in 1 sec and 20 (or depending on mantra's and such it could be less) seconds recharge, some moderate AoE damage that is armor ignoring...it isn't that bad. I would still prefer an ele tho, it has more AoE skillz and shorter duration in general (and usually more damage and possibly more KD's (depending on builds))82.171.220.160 16:11, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

There's an HA build floating around that makes use of this. —♥Jedi♥Rogue♥ 07:52, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

A few GvG teams are running it on mesmers as well. Then there's the TA team with 3 spell spamming sins and this skill. Lord of all tyria 09:42, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

I've seen lately monks who use SoJ and smiting skills that affect you when your down. Also monk assassins who use this, use dagger attacks (lol) and teleport out. It's getting very annoying. > < I've always liked this skill, so that makes at least 5 by now.--Flechette 01:26, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Notes

So, what, are we going to mention every skill that triggers on KD? I'm keeping it strictly to monk skills because, hmm, maybe becuase it's a monk skill. I mean, a sin has much better KD skills to start with. I don't see why anyone would use SoJ over Gale and Shock for triggering aftershock, an ELEMENTALIST spell, or Iron Palm for Falling Spider, an ASSASSIN skill. Silk Weaker 07:48, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

This isn't a forum about knockdown d*mnit! It's focused on the elite skill itself. If you're thinking purely about the knockdown, you're going the wrong way. It's an effective knockdown, true, however the AoE damage has proven it's worth in RA, as well as a free attack altogether. To Silk Weaver, Iron Palm and Entangling Asp are good, true, but the latter does no damage save poison, and the former is hard for a sin primary to take and utilize. This skill is free, ignores armor, and has substantial damage added in. And also take to note the other options for smiting elites, to be honest the only thing I can see PvP-wise is Ray of Judgement, even with all the hatred upon that skill. As for PvE, well... the other choice is quite obvious. -Daedric Avenger / Kamahl

What the fuck is your problem, Daedric? You advocate using Signet of Judgment to trigger Falling Spider? Do I have to explain the absurdity of that?--Silk Weaker 04:26, 3 November 2006 (CST)

I agree with Daedric. This isn't a discussion for all the other, NON MONK skills that cause knockdown, just like every non-monk healing skill doesn't have comments on how "monk skills do it better" - the point isn't that other classes do it better, it's how useful this particular skill is. It's like somebody comparing the pros and cons of meteor and meteor shower, then somebody charging in and saying "WHY R U USING THOSE LOL BACKBREAKER IS SO ROXR AND KNCKS DOWN 2" Phydeaux 20:33, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Phydeaux, what the FUCK are you talking about? Maybe you should check history and read more clearly before making comments. Since when did I advocate including skills that have knock down? I was imply against the absurd notion that for some fucking reason Falling Spider is a "related skill" for the reasons mentioned six months ago, not to mention that at that time SoJ had a 2 second cast time.-Silk Weaker 12:32, 5 May 2007 (CDT)

This skill is pretty awesome now that it only has one second casting time.

Nope, still sucks. --Mgrinshpon 19:01, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

15 second recharge please! Zulu Inuoe 16:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Improvable KD?

• Is this enhanced by stonefist insigna?
  • Allright, tested, it works. Why not after all? =)

I actually like this on my sword warrior. Hell there arnt any decent elite sword skills so use this for a cheap KD :-) If you still want your elite slot then just use bane sig ;-)JRyan--69.4.97.200 16:04, 18 September 2007 (CDT)

Um....look at Crippling Slash please. Oh, and Dragon Slash is good pressure. 76.102.172.202 04:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)