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Low Rez Armor...

→ Moved to GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Armor/Art gallery#Low Rez Armor...

Effects are now skills?

Please have a look at User_talk:TulipVorlax#Does_this_deserve_a_page_.3F; you're the one who knows about these things. --◄mendel► 07:31, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Your User Page

Sorry if im doing this wrong, im new as of about 30 minutes ago. I was looking at your main page, of characters, and was wondering on how I can get a template or something to help make it look very similar to how you have it set-up. If I could get your help, id appreciate it. X Jstn X 16:56, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The simplest way is to just copy my page, then modify it however you want. One thing to look out for is wherever you see double curly braces around something, like {{this}}, that's calling a template. If it's calling a template in my userspace, like {{User:Dr ishmel/this}}, you'll need to change it to your userspace instead. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the skill costs

Skill points are used to buy skills from skill trainers. Each skill costs one skill point and a certain amount of money. The first skill purchased costs 50 Gold, and the price increases gradually up to a cap of 1 Platinum on the 20th skill.

I've read four different game guide explanation of the costs and they are all horribly confusing. This is the first one I've read that makes a simple thing read simply. Nice job.

Also, thanks for the other re-wording (esp. since you fixed the #s; I could only copy what was there before). Thanks! --Tennessee Ernie Ford 23:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

ohai (Sysop question)

Hi there :)

For the last while I've been trying to learn more about this site and was wondering something. Would you be able to try to help me grasp the level of understanding of coding Sysops are required to have?

I'll understand if you can't be bothered or don't have the time, just thought you'd be the best one to ask. -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 12:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Just basic wikicode that you learn in 3 days? I still don't know how over 3/4 of all the cool stuff works :D --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 13:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Ah, so there's not an Ishy level req? -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 13:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC) Hope he doesn't mind me calling him that...
Not at all. Most of us are pretty clueless still. :P Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 13:10, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
(EC for no reason, at all) Hm... so... Ishy if he does mind I'm in for it now... + Mendel, anyone else I havn't noticed? :P -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 13:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)something strange is going on...
Oh c'mon... surely 2 people aren't responsable for about 90% of whatever happens when I click a button? WTB Moar Techies :) -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 13:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Warwick's pretty good, PanSola is proficient, Wizboy can do them too, I think, just call up some pages in Template: namespace and see who did them. Or call up Forum:Coding and see who signed. (Though I guess we can delete that section now?) --◄mendel► 13:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
lol, once again, ty Mendel -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 14:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Opinion needed

User_talk:RoseOfKali#Necromancer_Shing_Jea_armor. Thanks. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 16:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

*points at status box* >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Sorry. ^_^ Just posted with some people I knew. Enjoy RL. ;) though, you did notice this rather quickly... 8-) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Probably has email notifications of talk turned on... which reminds me, I have "send email to the Dr" on my to-do-list... sigh. --◄mendel► 20:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Recruit for chicken army? --◄mendel► 20:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Me awards j00 please?

Technobabble.jpg This user has been awarded the award, Hottest GuildWiki admin. Although that was obvious, right?

For you. The preceding unsigned comment was added by La Marisa (talk • contribs) 22:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC).

This wiki seems to be GuildWiki, not GWW RandomTime 01:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
And Marisa is a few years too late. ;-) --◄mendel► 04:13, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
*snicker* Miiiiiiine, all mine.... Jink 20:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

...wait, what? o.O? Who are you and what are you doing on my talk page? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:42, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Your lover? :O La Marisa 03:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all night XD Jink 04:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I think Ishy has some explaining to do.--Łô√ë Roar.îğá†ħŕášħ 05:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Your just jealous of him Jink. Also, I'll see you tonight with some bubbly, ishy ;) La Marisa 05:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

LMAO! He's my husband. XD Jink 11:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't date women who fail at contractions, sorry. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 13:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Wait and see how you'll be doing when Jink's contractions set in... ;-P --◄mendel► 14:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Well yeah, but she won't be failing at them. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Your still jealous Jink. By the way... Liek mah troll? :D La Marisa 03:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC) Gotta love my troll. Sorry, couldn't help it. Velico 03:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Um, yeah... who are you again? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*is still laughing at the fail* Jink 04:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Entropy Entropy Sig 2.jpg (C) 04:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I think this "troll" is being quite effective at starving himself/herself. ;) Jink 12:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Help on my title pages

hello, sorry but I'm going to steal your time once again. I updated my title page this morning here, but it won't update on my character page here. and on the titles page, down at the bottom i get this message "Expression error: Unexpected < operator", even though that part of the page was just copied and pasted from the Title List template. your help will be appreciated! Shogankillername.jpg 22:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you forgot to get rid of the last ) --JonTheMon 22:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
rah-ha! thanks!, still have that weird redt text error deal though... ShoganKiller 23:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Removed a parenthesis that was messing up your code on your titles page, then null edit on the character's page fixed the red error text. :D -- Isk8.png Isk8 (T/C) 23:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
ty for your help guys, now i just have my sig issue, but i think i can get that on me own ShoganKiller 00:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
ok guys, this is starting to piss me off, everytime i edit a page that is linked to another page by the means of {{ }} those types of brackets, the page (such as my user pages) dont update the linked part of the page, is this an IE bug or somthing? because this has never happened before... ShoganKiller 15:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
moving this to the bug page... ShoganKiller 15:24, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
You may just need to purge both the inclusion and the page that contains it (Ctrl+F5 on both, plus a couple extra minutes and refresh again, usually works). Other than that, I've never seen this problem. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 04:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hiya, help?

Hey ishmael, since you're a [PRO]grammer, I ask you: we have some problems over at Template:Armor art gallery trying to implement the "without helmet" thing. I tried my best, but there's a really bitchy issue with the line-breaks. Can you look at my revisions and try to retrace and see what I did there? Before 10th August it was almost right but with that line-break issue I tinkered around for over an hour, just to split the images up in the end. However Kali doesn't like it, so maybe you find a way to fix it? --Takisig.jpgTaki Fujiko 04:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the reason was for the other edits on the page, but you broke the Clipping parameter at some point (you changed it to display {{{Clipping6}}} for some reason), and the changes you made to the "Profile" text aren't working. To make this easy, I'm going to roll back all your changes to un-break both of those, then add back only the "nohelmet" stuff, then I'll try to see what's wrong. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and now I think I see the problem - you were adding two new table cells outside of the table you wanted them in. Of course that's going to look goofy. I'll have it fixed in a jiffy. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
*watches as the Doc blows up RC* Jink 05:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Teehee. Quote from Tonight's History Detectives Episode, spoofed: "Suddenly, EXPLOSION! Hip-hop! Everyone died. Tonight on the evening news."--Łô√ë Roar.îğá†ħŕášħ 05:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey, it's been a while since I've done that. :P I've been away too long, I totally didn't think of switching to my bot account for that.
Taki, it should be fixed now. The reason for the RC-bustin' was I changed your "nohelmet" parm to "Nohelmet", in keeping with the title-case nature of all the other parameter names on that template. Let me know if you need any other help! —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! :D RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, thank you Dr. --Takisig2.png 16:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


hey i was looking at that file with ur picture as a necro with the mask of the mo zing and was wondering if it clipps the mask with the armor "asurian armor"? just ummm edit mab the thing and say it there thnx The preceding unsigned comment was added by (contribs) .

If you look at the "Summary" section on the image page, you'll see that I didn't upload those pictures originally - I just re-uploaded them to the correct filenames. I don't have a necro with the Mo Zing mask, so I wouldn't know. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:32, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Test version of Cootle Sizzlehorn

Hey Dr Ishmael, I was wondering if you still need/are using Cootle Sizzlehorn/Test version. If not, I'll delete it. Thanks--Marcopolo47 signature new.jpg (Talk) (Contr.) 19:51, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Damn, I was going to ask the same question RandomTime 18:57, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
I deleted it because a) it's orphaned (I edited MP47's post above to make it so), b) Dr Ishmael is inactive at present, and c) if he decides he does need it when he becomes active again, he can undelete it himself. --◄mendel► 20:04, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Hunter's Ale is not an "Alcohol Point", it is "Alcohol"

Good catch. I think this was an artifact of the original organization, which grouped things according to which title they, erm, abetted.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:56, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Happy Birthday

That is all. Lazuli 04:34, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Try not to hit the ether too hard. ;) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 08:25, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Happy birthday, Bot Ishy ;) --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 12:27, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Happy Birthday :-) A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:54, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Bippy Harthday! Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:17, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
С Днём Варенья, RC Bot-man Ishy! RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 16:12, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Happy birfday. — Balistic 16:15, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! And what's my birthday present? A wonderful, wet, rainy day. Bleh. -_- —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:38, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Here you go - Birthday Cupcake.png A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 17:51, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Harpy blithday! I buyed you a microwave oven, but I eated it :3 Felix Omni Signature.png 19:01, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Umm... thanks? I hope you don't get any indigestion? o.O —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:16, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Happy Birthday! <--took 5mins to work up the courage to write this. Also, nice job on the miniatures page(moving the frogs to their own section), it make more sense now. Chibi Moon Shadow 19:31, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
Happy birthday. Cress Arvein Cress sig.JPG 19:38, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Transmog Tonic

Actually, I've seen it too. Right after using the tonic, sometimes (but not always) your character will do one /clap. There's also something similar in the Costume Brawl. When entering the outpost or battle, your character will perform one emote over and over (different for each profession and gender) until you move for the first time. I think it has something to do with humanoid disguises in general. You never notice it with other tonics because, well, they have no emotes. --Macros 15:11, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Come to think of it, the emote Livia does in the Costume Brawl is /clap, too... suspicious. --Macros 15:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
Hm. Like I said in the summary, I've never noticed it myself. I'll watch more closely today - I'm expecting the next quest to become available, and we'll probably have to use tonics to enter the UW again, so I'll have plenty of chances to see it. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I just saw it on one of my wife's characters. Seems to be pretty rare, though. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:55, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
That IP you reverted was actually me. :P And I've seen it clap up to 3 times in a row after transforming. You worded it better. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 01:27, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, okay. Maybe I'm just blind, but I still can't remember ever seeing my characters do that. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:11, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
Having a baby does that to a person.... Jink 23:16, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
With a cartoony stream of pee to the eye Felix Omni Signature.png 23:44, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
Cartoony? Oh, those things are very much real and wet... I'd still pick the eye over the more concave parts of the face. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 00:09, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
Nope, I had it worse than that. A couple weeks after we brought her home, she made a mess on the changing pad while Jink was changing her. Jink called me in to hold the naked baby while she put a new pad on the table... and she pooped all down my front and onto the floor. -_- —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:53, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
After I stopped laughing, I feel sorry for you. ^_^ RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 12:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

The kind of person who...

This is the kind of person who refers to TEF as, Ernie. ;-)

PS Good Every Bit Helps edit; seemed like the least we could do is explain how to complete it 1x.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:38, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

As I said in the summary, that was my intent. Either repeat the single Skeleton capture 3x, or use a solo farm to get 3 at once. I had actually written that before I knew it was repeatable, thus I couldn't have intended that to be relevant for completing the quest more than once.
And if people want to call you Ernie, then they're gonna call you Ernie. Fighting it only makes it worse, as I found out long ago. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:24, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


User_talk:RoseOfKali/Mesmer_gloves#Sin: can I take you up on that template offer? :) I've gotten around to taking a bunch of the missing screens, working on formatting them now and will upload them as they're ready. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 15:30, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Will do. Someone will have to create a "No Image Available" for gloves, my image manipulation skills aren't good enough for that. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:59, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
Since this is being templated now, I standardized the image names to match the existing conventions. The changes I made were "armor" → "Armor" and "gloves dyed" → "dyed gloves". I moved all existing images that I could find, including the ones you just uploaded. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:42, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
Ok, tyvm, I'm glad I took a break before spam-uploading. ^_^ You're the best. ;) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 20:35, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
Oh, by the way, wasn't "armor" supposed to be lowercase? Or is it uppercase just for images, but lowercase for the actual armor article titles? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 20:40, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
We changed it for articles but left it on the images, since there would've been a whole fudge-ton (prolly close to 1,000) images to re-upload. Now that we can simply move images it wouldn't be nearly as annoying to do, but there isn't really a need for it. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:00, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
Understood. TY. :) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:41, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

RoF stubby

The reason it was still a stub was because technically it's a stub since there's no NF trainer listed. It's better in that respect than a few other skills, though, because it IS actually possible to figure out where it is (and inevitably find out it's Kamadan probably anyway :P ) by having a Prophecies character get monk primary or secondary and not do the Protection Prayers quest, then go to Kamadan. There's a few that ARE physically impossible to get though, should be in the Category:Need Factions Skill Trainer or Category:Need Nightfall Skill Trainer --Gimmethegepgun 01:49, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, right, I keep forgetting about those. I've always thought that they shouldn't be called stubs, though, as they are actually nearly complete articles (a stub is an article with very minimal content that needs to be expanded). This is more of a "needs research" situation. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:03, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
I agree. For simplicity, especially since essentially every skill, if not every skill, is beyond a stub state, we should just change the text of {{skill-stub}} to say it needs research or something --Gimmethegepgun 02:11, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
Makes sense, imo. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:13, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Wondering if you can do some bot magic.

So you know how for like four years we've been reverting people who add Ruby and Sapphire to creature drop pages because every creature in the game has a chance of dropping them? Well apparently, they don't. See here.

So I was wondering if you could whip up a script that would give us a list of every article that's got Ruby (Rubies) or Sapphire in the edit summaries somewhere, just as a starting point for adding them in. Felix Omni Signature.png 20:44, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. Well, there goes that bit of conventional wisdom, *POOF* =O
Wouldn't it be better to use GWW:Category:Drops sapphire and GWW:Category:Drops ruby as starting points? It seems like they've been documenting this for a while already, so those are probably pretty complete. I don't know how much we'd really want to trust the edit histories here in any case, given how likely it is that at least a few people would've added sapphire/ruby to random monsters just to be silly. But if you insist, I'll see what I can do - Mendel's better at dealing with the wiki dumps, although I haven't seen him being very active lately. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:19, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
I think that since no one's gonna go and look at a specific monster page in order to figure out if it drops Rubies/Sapphires, we should just make a list of what CAN drop it in the respective pages. Even though it's not even "most", it would still be the most expansive category in GW history, so it wouldn't do much good for finding something anyway. Just rob them of the list from the categories and put it into a list that's actually helpful :P --Gimmethegepgun 00:25, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
I suppose those are both better ideas than mine, I just wanted to do something special and hi-tech. Felix Omni Signature.png 01:09, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
@Gimme: True, but who's going to look at a specific monster to see if it drops, say, linen? Yet we still list that, and all other crafting materials, on individual monster pages, so I don't see why we shouldn't list rubies/sapphires. As far as being "the most expansive category in GW history," I actually looked at the history of both the ruby and sapphire articles to see what people had listed in the past (before we replaced the list with an "everything can drop this" note). With only a couple exceptions, everything that had been listed is now listed in GWW's drop categories. I'm starting to realize that these gems aren't nearly as widespread as everyone thought they were.
@Felix: *patpat*, 's okay. I would've started working on that immediately if it weren't for the strong likelihood of false positives. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:42, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Be careful, doctah!

You're Searing a hole in my Heart! :P --Gimmethegepgun 20:43, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

XD Y'know, I actually made the same mistake and corrected it on Savannah Heat right above that. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:48, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

.dat extraction

What does .dat extraction involve. Is it easy and where can you link me to more information. yours demandingly, RandomTime 22:34, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not. Here is a list of the programs I use for gw.dat extraction (both texture and text), and here is the technique I use for viewing inaccessible skills in-game. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:12, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
I've summarized it all, with some extra info, all on one page. Eventually I'll write my own guide for using CheatEngine, too. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:21, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Thank You

For putting the post by that piece of shit in its place. ... I swear, whoever posted that...I want to punch them...HARD. RHSig.jpg rede | beiträge 02:37, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Incidentally, I can program in C++, which I know isn't too different form C#, and I would love to dig deeper into gw.exe to figure stuff out. I actually had the idea a few years ago to try and work up a chat logging program for GW (mostly for my wife, who has (at last count) 17 folders full of screenshots logging all of her RP sessions), but never got anywhere with it. So if you're still recruiting for the project, I'd love to help. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:20, November 27, 2009 (UTC)
Sure. Incidentally, I lost my original code that I was working with when I lost a HDD. I only remembered it when that prick put something up. Maybe we can do it in C++, like a portable Qt frontend for server settings and whatnot. Considering Qt comes out-of-the-box with its own networking libraries, which I have yet to dig into, our dependence on external libraries and whatnot should be nil...which is good, because Qt does not make importing external libraries easy, the only real flaw I've found with it. RHSig.jpg rede | beiträge 21:30, November 27, 2009 (UTC)


The edit. But at least it was definitely broken! :P EM Signature.jpg ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 18:22, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Revert on User:Syarco

Special:Contributions/ Pretty sure it's him :P (actually, I am 100% sure) --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 20:58, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, so was I, but... it's the principle of the thing. Although if I'd looked at his page history it would've been obvious. >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:37, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

i did *not* forget to sign, you did not see this >.>

Aww, I was in the process of humiliating you with an unsigned template :( --Gimmethegepgun 01:36, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, but I am too quick for your humiliation! —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:39, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
Humility != humiliation. You should know this. I now reserve the right to lol at you at a later time regardless of circumstance --Gimmethegepgun 01:42, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
*mumblemumble* >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
^lol </late> A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:48, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Show/Hide boxes

To use S/H boxes on a wiki, do you need some specific extension, a line of code somewhere (I presume the latter at least, since I saw div classes)? Asking for a totally unrelated wiki :P --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 17:52, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

It's a combination of CSS and Javascript. The specific implementation we use is NavFrame, but apparently it's been replaced with collapsible tables. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:01, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
The major difference is that div boxes aren't tables, but rather floating boxes, right? --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 18:22, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
Basically, yes. Divs are much more flexible than tables, which is why the current web design trend is to avoid tables whenever possible, only using them when necessary to display tabular data. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:04, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Yes, and the wiki HTML coding has made me adopt this statement: "When in doubt, use a div" --Gimmethegepgun 19:08, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Okies, thank you both. That's all for now ;) --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 19:52, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


Lose your Head + Wandering Mind

Anything to note when you're adding skills never seen / confirmed to be used? You're the master of it, iirc A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:49, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


I thought they were relics from copy / pasted Official Wiki pages. Because, they've the notes on so many pages if we did note the attributes surely we'd have them on many more pages? :S A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 21:23, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

They're more common on Prophecies monsters, especially Soul Reaping for necros, but yeah, we list them when we know them. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:26, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


Does your wife know?--Łô√ë Roar.îğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a Card Creation Contest! 02:55, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I showed her and she laughed at it. :D —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:00, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
It was quite amusing. Very tempting to spam the fake Dr ishmael with "neener neener neener!" But I shall refrain. ;) Jink 05:51, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Wait, when the vandal said fag, did he mean gay fag or the South Park "Harley rider" fag? Honestly not sure which one would be more detrimental to the Chicken King's relationship, what do you think Jink? haha that rhymed --Gimmethegepgun 06:18, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Or he might have been implying that you are a dangerous and easily available carcinogen source.--Łô√ë Roar.îğá†ħŕášħ is hosting a Card Creation Contest! 06:58, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Nah, he's from Kansas, not Britain --Gimmethegepgun 08:22, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
That's Arkansas, tyvm. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:59, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Or perhaps the poor user was implying that Ishy was one stick out of a bundle. Jink 15:49, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
And what's *that* supposed to imply, eh? >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:57, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Sometimes I just hate the interwebz. IRL we'd be able to tell if Ishy was bleeding sarcasm or not, but we just don't know now :( --Gimmethegepgun 18:29, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
Well, we know now (check the edit summary) --Gimmethegepgun 05:13, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Is that pronounced Our-Can-Sas, Ar-Kan-Saw, or something else? :S A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 18:37, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Ar-kan-saw. Jink 19:23, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
BTW, when I said Kansas, I meant the IP. Did a WHOIS on him, came up with KS, meaning, proxy or similar aside, he's from at least the Kansas area --Gimmethegepgun 19:10, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Jink :) A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:26, December 10, 2009 (UTC)


Just a random thought I felt was somewhat fitting here; It's annoying that RC doesn't show every block by default.
I only saw you blocked Angelus because I switched S/H Bots. (p.s. Open question a few topics up) --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 15:54, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Oops, didn't think about that. I would've switched back for the block if I'd known. And what open question are you referring to? Bot ishmael 18:40, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I see it, not related to bots/blocks/RC at all. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:57, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Redundant whitespace

Tbh, it wasn't redundant. It made things readable. Are there other ways of forcing the text to appear after the table? If not, I'm gonna put that whitespace back in.--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 19:05, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:09, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, thnx.--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 19:26, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
For future reference, I believe you can use things like &nbsp;, <br />, {{clear}} to add space. You can also use <div style="margin-bottom:10px;"> tags. Finally, I believe you can also incorporate padding/margins after the table's last row from within the table, e.g. {{Effective profession guide nav box}}. (I am hoping that the peanut gallery will erupt with erudite explanations as to which of the above is preferable.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:41, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
I tried the br one, but it didn't work (it's one of the few things I know)--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 19:54, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
Geez, so much fuss for a little format issue. The only one of those would've worked there is the {{clear}} template (which, for future reference, should always be subst:'ed). All of the others are in-line fixes and would just insert whitespace into the text around the floating object, but not change the text's relation to the float in any way.
But the simplest fix was to simply turn the floating object into a non-floating one by removing the "align" attribute from the table, which was totally unnecessary in the first place. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:01, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
Erm? My apologies...I wasn't commenting on the particular issue (since there is no link above, I didn't know to which change Nazzy was referring). I figured I would throw out lots of possible ways to add space after a table...and hope to learn something about what works better. (Of course, next to grammar discussions, formatting issues are the next greatest cause of accidental wiki drama.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:09, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
Lol, I doubt any drama could come from this. I just don't know anything about wikicoding except some really basic stuff. That's why I asked in the first place.--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 20:11, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
Eh? are you trying not to start something? You wanna not get something going here? ;-)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:14, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

New to wiki editting; several questions

  1. concerning the tags <noinclude></noinclude>
    • I'm guessing any text between the tags is omitted (not transcluded) when the template is called, but appears on the template's page?
    • Is this useful beyond template pages?
  2. concerning the tags <includeonly></includeonly>
    • Text between these tags is the text that is transcluded when the template is called, but does not appear on the template's page?
    • Is this useful beyond template pages?
  3. concerning the parser template {#if}>
    • The parameters would be #if|condition|(condition true)statements|(condition false)statements
    • I actually stumbled upon this one looking for templates, with {{Death title}}, and fixed it, I think. In that template, I found the location of the pipe within {{{1|}}} a bit strange. Would {{{1}}}| have been possible instead?
  4. I found a few categories with no existing pages added to my userpage after I added a few user boxes.
    • What would it take to make these category pages show a listing of all users with the [[category:]] code on their page, the way existing category pages do?
  5. Do you mind if I use a few of your userboxes?

The preceding unsigned comment was added by No man (contribs) .

  1. Correct, anything within <noinclude> appears as normal on the source page, but does not appear when the page is transcluded.
  2. Correct, anything within <includeonly> does not appear on the source page, but only when the page is transcluded.
    • One more tag is <onlyinclude>, which is sort of the converse of <noinclude>. If a page has an <onlyinclude> section, then that is the only section that will be transcluded; it's as if everything else were wrapped in <noinclude>.
    • These can be used anywhere you want to restrict what parts of a page are included somewhere else, not just in templates. We actually do quite a bit of transclusion between mainspace articles here - the Title overview is a good example.
    • See Translucion on the MediaWiki wiki for more info.
  3. Basically. I like to think of it as {{#if:condition|then|else}}. For this parser function, the condition is not a boolean true/false, it is a test for "emptyness", generally used to test for the presence of a parameter.
    • A pipe after a parameter name is used to set a default value. {{{parm1|5}}} would insert the value "5" if the template was called without a value for the parameter "parm1". #if statements usually use this form with a null default value, {{{parm1|}}}, in order to test whether a value was passed for that parameter.
    • See Mediawikiwiki:Help:Parser functions in templates for a better explanation than I can give.
  4. A redlink category will still display the list of pages in that category - this is generated automatically by the wiki software. The redlink simply means that a category page has not been created yet. The text of a category page displays above the list of pages in the category. Compare Category:Users/Monster to Category:Users/Male.
  5. Sure, go ahead. :)
Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:33, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
I tip my hat to you sir! —Noman Nomansig.png (talk | contribs) 16:43, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Skill icon

So, what'd you change with the skill icon template? --JonTheMon 16:13, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

It can now handle PvP skills by stripping the (PvP) from the skill name to get the correct icon image. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:16, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Guide to evolving etc etc

I do think "Dire" should be capitalized, as it is in-game. Felix Omni Signature.png 17:54, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Wynn doesn't, and I'm pretty sure the only place it was used prior to the menagerie was in pet names, where every word is automatically title-cased. Is there somewhere I'm not thinking of? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:01, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
/agree. Although, I tend to prefer capitalization of jargon (so it stands out better), dire pet appears more consistent with current wiki practices than Dire Pet or Dire pet.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:29, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
You're right, Wynn uses lower case. My mistake. Felix Omni Signature.png 05:49, December 23, 2009 (UTC)


>_< RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:27, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Was it the hat images? I am sorry for that, I wasn't thinking when I deleted all the existing ones the other day. If I remember I'll try to fix the other festival pages at some point... or you could do it, if you wanted. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:55, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
You can't restore the deleted image? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:22, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

gwMultilaunch = Maddy's Multi Launch?

gwmultilaunch ← is that same as Maddy's Multi Launch? I like the idea better than GWx2, but I didn't trust Maddy's implementation (location of the files, need to connect to his site after an update). Tried it, liked it, but still removed all copies and changed all my passwords that I used while it was on machine (guildwars ones only, as it turned out). Thanks.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:28, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so, no. Here's the Guru thread on it. This one doesn't even have an installer, you just extract the folder wherever you want. As far as I can tell, it doesn't "phone home" at all, either. Mostly it looks like it's just a C# implementation of the batch file multi-instancer I had been using. Oh, and it can also run TexMod on any/all instances. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:03, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks for the info. I'll look to see if anyone seems to be sniffing out the source for anything ugly. (Or does Google code handle any of that?) I really like being able to multi-instance Cartography Made Easy.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:05, December 23, 2009 (UTC)


Have a happy and a merry!   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:06, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Same to you! —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:51, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
Crystal Snowflake.png Merry X-mas!!! Crystal Snowflake.png -- F1Sig.png † F1© Talk 09:07, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


If you are still online, can you get on IRC for a minute? Shadowcrest 03:33, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the map timer on Traveler last week

Thanks for adding the timer to expire the previous map on the traveler last week. I would edit it to revert to an "unknown" style page - but not sure I could accomplish that satisfactorily. Thought it would be nice to carry through on the idea for the entire page instead of just removing the map to help keep people from just editing an old map back? Sorry I couldn't accomplish it to see what you might think, but at least after last weeks addition it seems you might be on board with it.---shmEk (talk) 16:51, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

  1. (cur) (prev) 17:32, December 21, 2009 Dr ishmael (Talk | contribs) m (2,378 bytes) (c/p leftover) (undo)
  2. (cur) (prev) 17:29, December 21, 2009 Dr ishmael (Talk | contribs) (2,387 bytes) (insert #expr/#time code to auto-update image link every Monday) (undo)
  3. (cur) (prev) 17:20, December 21, 2009 Dr ishmael (Talk | contribs) m (2,305 bytes) (Reverted User:ShmEk:don't bother changing until he's found) (undo)
  4. (cur) (prev) 16:17, December 21, 2009 ShmEk (Talk | contribs) (1,723 bytes) (Unknown - for the moment until updated with location) (undo)
On a wiki, the point of a redlink is to signify that something is unknown or doesn't exist; there's no real need to do anything special to point that out. The extra code required to display a "location unknown" image if the new image exists, while still making it link to the upload page for the new week's image, would be very ugly. We do that for the armor galleries in order to (hopefully) inspire people to update the galleries, but for this single image, which usually gets updated within a couple hours anyway, it's not necessary.
The problem with the map image was when someone would (with good intentions) upload the new week's map over the old one without changing the file name. This isn't a problem for the text bits, as they're all part of the main article and get overwritten every week anyway. There's nothing wrong with leaving them like they are until Nick's new location is found, and it will only be "wrong" for a couple hours in any case.
Now, when we discover that Nick is indeed on a cycle (52 weeks seems most likely, but whatever), then it would make sense to parse out all the location/dialogue info to a subpage that we could transclude each week's info from with a similar "timer" system. I think we can leave it as-is until then. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:08, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Back when he erroneously appeared in Arbor Bay, Linsey slipped that he wasn't supposed to be there for at least a year, and that's why there was no dialogue in place (it was blank). This implies that the cycle is more than a year. :) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:28, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Meh, that wasn't really the point of my argument, but whatever. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:25, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
I know, just commented on your 52-week guess. :P It may be a looooong time before the cycle loops. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 00:54, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, especially if they were really silly and decided to make him eventually collect every single trophy in the game. That would be almost 5 years. o__O —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:42, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
TY for the reply back. I kinda figured it was a bit more then it was worth doing or would've been done. I know I'm inept at constructing it all together---shmEk (talk) 21:04, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
Say "inexperienced" rather than "inept". ;) And your suggestion is making me start to seriously think about setting up this page with dpl sections to somewhat automate the location/dialogue parts of the page (won't be completely automatic until his cycle restarts, but at least the framework will be in place). —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:46, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Happy New Year! -- F1Sig.png † F1© Talk 11:18, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

You lost the bet

talk:Flurry of Splinters. What I actually wanted to say was that " |type=Explorable area" in location boxes isn't standardised (some read area, others read Area), and Prophecies doesn't have an Explorable Areas navbox. If you ever need something mind-numbing to do.. :P --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 23:06, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

I went one better and made Template:Prophecies Explorable Areas and Template:EotN Explorable Areas. I'll set up AWB to add them to the articles later tonight. Then I'll see if I can get AWB to standardize the templates. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:02, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
A week late, but follow-up on this: I was able to use AWB for both actions, although I couldn't go full auto since 1) it could only append the navbox to the end of the article (had to manually move it above the categories), and 2) the various articles didn't have consistent formatting for the infobox code (variety in spacing, mostly), which meant I could only give it find/replace on the [[Explorable area]] link itself, and that still didn't guarantee that it would get the one in the infobox.
Doing this made me realize how inconsistent the style/formatting is on our explorable area articles. I guess that's as good a candidate as any for my next big improvement project, but I'm gonna need a lot of people's input on how best to standardize said formatting. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:55, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I phail in gramar..

EL Tonics. Thanks for fixing it and sorry for wasting your time. EM Signature.jpg ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 23:42, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Don't apologize, AWB makes it super easy to fix little things like that (thus why I've been using it a lot lately). For this I just made a list from the category, set the find and replace text, and let it go on auto-pilot. Prolly took less than a minute to set up. So no, it wasn't wasting my time. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:48, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, but still thanks =) Anyway, I have another thing to waste your time with: helping me again! :P
I'd also like to use AWB (tho not as often), but I am facing a problem. Every time I try to press the start button, an error message will appear (see screen) and I don't know what to do, I've been already trying to fix it for some days with absolutely no success. Maybe it's something usual and you know what to do or where could I find a solution? Any help greatly appreciated ;) EM Signature.jpg ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 01:29, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
The asterisks in your username are screwing up the regular expression (in regex, * is a special character that means "zero or more of the preceding character"). I don't know if there's any way to modify what goes into that regex, so you'll probably have to make a sockpuppet account without asterisks in order to use AWB. You could check the bug reports and/or feature requests on WP:AWB to see if anyone's reported a similar experience. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:41, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, thank you again(again), my fail for loving asterisks so much, they always like to break something :( . I already checked all the bugs/discussions and didn't find anything (no wonder since I am the first user ever who is using special characters in name). Well, just a quick question now (I can't find it anywhere..), do I need to do anything special to make a second account? Thanks for all the help. EM Signature.jpg ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 02:28, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think so, although it's been a while since I've created an account. Just go to Special:Signup and fill out the form on the left. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:39, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Good to have you back

Yes, I know it's been near on 3 months already, but I think nobody's told you yet. :) Also, you're still listed as "semi-active" on GW:AI. --◄mendel► 00:55, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. ^_^ It started because, once I found out about them, I wanted to make sure we had all the new Halloween stuff documented properly (and before GWW, although I think I lost that race most of the time). I'm more active in GW overall at this time of year, with three big events close together - Halloween, Wintersday, Canthan New Year - but without the new skills/quests, I probably wouldn't have done much on the wiki.
After Halloween was over, I continued because... well, mostly because I'm unemployed and don't have anything else to do. Patrolling and editing GWiki gave me an escape from all the stress and anxiety I've been under during my job search - although those have also found their way through into some of my comments over the past few months, for which I apologize.
I've resisted switching myself over to fully active because I know my current spurt won't survive for very long after I find a new job. I had hoped to be employed before Christmas, and I was very close to getting an offer, but nothing worked out. Now, though, I've got an interview on Wednesday and two other solid leads through referrals, and I'm certain I'll be employed by the end of the month. Of course, it all depends on how demanding the job will be and whether I have to commute or not, but more than likely I won't have nearly as much time for the wiki anymore. I'll probably be able to patrol RC once a day or something like that, maybe find time for some bigger projects on the weekends. So thanks for the reminder, but I think it will be best to leave it at "semi-active" and consider my current activity as an (admittedly long-lived) anomaly. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:34, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Get me a job too plz Felix Omni Signature.png 05:29, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Ow, that sucks. I hope the interview/offers pan out. --◄mendel► 13:33, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

tonic forms

While I'm thinking about it, could you set up a bot to correct all the templates, like Sinister Golem Form to have all the consumables listed? Currently they vary in what's included. For most, it will be the normal tonic, everlasting version, and Mysterious. Oh, and why are some of them stubs, anyway? If this can't be botted, I'll do it manually later. Thx. :) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 16:57, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt I can fully automate that, but I can at least do it semi-auto in AWB. They're stubs because when I made the first few, I wasn't sure what all info would be needed on them. People just copy-pasted the whole page when making a new one, including the stub tag. I'm thinking we should move any info about the form itself (like what emotes you use or the /sit + /stand = death animation) from the tonic page to the form page. That should be enough to de-stub them. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:36, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ok. Also about the infobox colors. Most of them are "lightblue" but some of the everlasting are a custom green, others are a different green, and it's inconsistent. What should it be? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 17:39, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
EL tonics are "green" items, right? Then it should be the same green as on Template:UniqueWeaponInfo. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:53, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ok. Wasn't sure which "green" to use. :P Also, all summoning stones are gold (except Igneous), should those boxes be changed too? Then which exact color? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:10, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
We don't normally do any special formatting for gold items, e.g. Club of a Thousand Bears (weapon). I'd leave them with the standard lightblue. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:24, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, ok, so either green or everything else. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:30, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


I need your help in the designing of a build, kinda.!!!! Windowslive: Srs business! Thank you, that is all. 03:16, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

^ was me btw. rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 03:16, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
Meh, I dun have a Windows Live account. What sort of build are you designing? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:36, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
4-man fow clear D; rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 03:17, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

moved-to and -from linebreak and clear

I don't understand your latest edit; I mean, there should be a line break someplace, so rewriting it with <includeonly> probably makes sense; but putting a clear:both in it seems unexpected, and it means that unexpected results would happen if I used it near the top of my talk page, where the archive index forms a sort of "sidebar". Why did you do it? --mendel @ 18:29, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

I added the linebreak because it was annoying always having to remember to put an extra blank line after that template every time I used it. The template itself should take care of fitting itself into the surrounding text. As for the clear part... I dunno? >.> It seemed like a good idea, I guess. I hadn't considered situations like that. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:33, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
MMh, a template usually either ends with a line break (so you can put several of them on the first line of a page, or if it is a table) or with no line break (if it merely generates some text), and I never expect it to end with a <br> tag. In this case, ending with a line break would be appropriate; you'd then leave an empty line below it if you want it to stand on a line on its own, and that it does (and why) would then be obvious from the page text, without looking at the template. When I use it, usually the next thing that follows is the next section header, so a blank line isn't needed; if you remove part of a convo, you can put a ---- (hr tag) below to indicate that something happened to the section, and it requires no blank line either.
So I'm in favor for ending those two templates on a line break, and of you remembering to use blank lines to separate paragraphs on the wiki. ;)
Out of curiosity, have you checked how this affects existsing uses of the template? If I'd decided to change it like you did, I'd probably run a bot to subst: it everywhere before I made the change to make sure my change couldn't break anything. --◄mendel► 12:02, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion plz

Hey Ish, I'm asking your opinion here as an adult and sysop, but also as a parent. A few days ago on File talk:Motivator526d870f2edeb713fe9e67d2943cc230402d8013.jpg, amidst a discussion about what kind of image is appropriate, mendel posted a link to a gallery of softcore pornography on Uncyclopedia. When I saw it later that night, I removed the link and revision-hid all the history entries in which it was visible; I did this because a) I thought it was an inappropriate external link, even if used as an example of what wikia tolerates on their servers, and b) one of the participants in the discussion had stated that he was 14 years old, and I found mendel's act of knowingly providing access to pornography to a minor to be morally reprehensible, as well as presumably illegal (I have not as yet researched whether it actually is or not).

However, my actions there have drawn criticism from some users as being too hasty, and heavy-handed with bureaucrat tools. So I'd like to know your take on the situation. Felix Omni Signature.png 08:01, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

"softcore-Pornography" means "a category of nude images stored on another Wikia wiki". --◄mendel► 11:47, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
I'm scared to get involved here, but I'd like a response from both of you, if I may ask for that.
Does it matter if it's Wikia porno or general intrawebz porno? A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:22, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think there's a clear "right" answer to this. While the link wasn't quite appropriate for where it was, it was still a wiki link. No parent can protect their 14 year old from that without locking them in the basement with no TV or internet or friends or magazines or... And even though I think deleting all revisions (as opposed to just removing the link and letting it stay in history) may have been a bit overreacting, I wouldn't flame for it or call it inappropriate use of "power" tools, either. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 12:49, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Honestly, I probably would've banned mendel for acting like a pigheaded idiot in regards to that image. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:27, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Too quick to the guns

You blocked Never Delete A Friends Page a mere minute after he started to revert your change. We don't usually block people for reverting, and we don't usually do it to people without even contacting them about it or giving them a chance to explain. I believe the proper action would have been to drop a note on their talkpage asking them to post to teh talkpage or the author before undoing a large change, but even that is commonly not needed - we've always had it so a revert can be done right out, and the person who did the change then has to start the discussion (it's not always wise to revert without explanation, more often you'd be better off writing some explanation for your change, but even if NDAFP intended that, you didn't leave them any time to do so). So, please don't do that again, or you might get blocked for breaking 1RV (which you did if you think about it). Thank you. --◄mendel► 11:51, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Talking on irc, Nwash linked me to User talk:Nore Bane, which makes your action somewhat more clear. It still seems an inappropriate way to resolve an editing dispute, though. --◄mendel► 13:26, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
It was quite obvious (at least to me) from the username that that account was created specifically to cause vandalism in response to the deletions I had made. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:12, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
From what i can see, it looks like that account was made for disruption and so, while hasty, I think the action wasn't out of line. --JonTheMon 14:49, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Same to me, I probably would have done the same thing. It was clearly a sock specifically meant for that.--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 14:49, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
The idea that it was one of the friends that had been linked to that page never corssed your mind? Also, "innocent until causing disruption" is something we really should go by. --◄mendel► 14:52, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Friend or otherwise (I half-assumed friend), what user who intends to be a contributing member of this wiki would choose that name? And the first edit wasn't really a good indicator either. --JonTheMon 14:55, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Even if that was "obvious", blocking it like that was probably not the best response. --◄mendel► 14:56, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
What, has our policy changed to where we allow obvious vandals to run rampant now? Actually, you're right, that wasn't the best response - as it was obviously an account created solely to cause disruption, I should've perma-banned it. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:04, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
"Reverting a change" is not vandalism on GuildWiki yet. --◄mendel► 15:06, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Guh... I don't care anymore, I'm not going to continue arguing this. Either you're too stubborn to understand my point, or I'm too stupid to understand yours. Whichever it is, nothing constructive is going to come from this. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:11, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Even if it wasn't blatant vandalism, it was an indicator of future edit-warring, potential vandalism, and disruption in general. And it was a preventative (not punitive) block, eh? --JonTheMon 15:45, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Preventative, exactly - since there seemed little chance of that account contributing constructively, and there seemed a high chance of it continuing to cause disruption, I saw no problem with blocking it. If I were being punitive, I would've blocked Nore Bane as well for being a moron. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:01, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

I have no problem dealing with somebody who makes an account with his (or her) cards down. It seems to me that he's a friend of Nore Bane's who was dissatisfied with your deletion; and I'd have expected him , had he not been banned, to complete the revert by re-creating that page, and then being amenable to discussion about it (a discussion that might have arrived at leaving the redirect the way I did). If through our mature dealings with him we'd have motivated him to keep contributing to GuildWiki, he'd learn that the only way to get rid of that name would be to make a new account - a course he might or might not follow. The user name itself is not per se disruptive, IMO. --◄mendel► 16:18, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to summarize your point (probably exaggerated a bit), and you can tell me if I'm off: the fact that the user clearly disagreed with your admin action of deleting that page makes them moronic, renitent, and out to cause disruption. They should have used your talkpage like you used theirs, to argue the case (notwithstanding that they're quite likely inexperienced at wiki). They should have used a way to pursue that conflict that was acceptable to you, and because it wasn't, they got banned. --◄mendel► 16:29, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

No. A friend of the user who wasn't willing to let the discussion between Ishy and Nore come to a conclusion decided to create an account to preemptively make it back into the way it was originally, discussion be damned. --JonTheMon 16:32, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Um, no, it sounds you're combining the two users into one. I dealt with Nore Bane in a civil fashion, and when he finally gave the explanation that he and his "friends" had been having difficulties finding the content in question, I took the action that seemed most appropriate. I moved the content to a more visible and appropriate location and deleted the articles he had created, as I saw no point in even leaving them as redirects (in which I again question your judgment). After I had done that, a new user appeared with a provocative username who maliciously reverted a constructive edit. It didn't matter that it was my edit, I would've blocked that user regardless for being obviously disruptive. It was the username more than anything, actually - if it had been a more "normal" username, I would have been more inclined to AGF and would not have acted so hastily. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:37, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Gah, I hate myself when I break my promises to walk away from arguments. This is seriously my last comment on the issue. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:39, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying. I don't see where you get the "maliciously" from, to be honest. --◄mendel► 16:57, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
"Maliciously" might be a slight exaggeration, but it was certainly fully intentional. Combined with the name and the edit summary, malice could be taken from it. --JonTheMon 17:15, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
I'd say the issue had been sufficiently resolved; Nore Bane himself thanked you for your help and implicitly agreed with moving it to the Energy article. Whoever that was defied consensus, and their edit summary wasn't too helpful in understanding their motives. Their name, however, gave the impression of having a disruptive motive. Everyone here probably reached the same conclusion. If they reply to their talkpage, they might give a good reason for their edit, or they might be persuaded to come to a consensus. If they continue to make disruptive edits, then they can easily be banned again. If they never make another edit again, then that's just as good as a permaban, right? We should just wait and see what they do. But I'm not an admin, so meh. --Macros 18:21, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Mendel is a bad troll x.x He's not even funny D: rąʂKƴɖooƿɭɘş 22:17, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Zaishen Mission/Forecast

→ Moved to User talk:V13 Savage#Zaishen Mission/Forecast

User talk:Nore Bane#HELP!!!

I'm guessing that's directed toward you. ;D Felix Omni Signature.png 04:40, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


@ this. --◄mendel► 07:31, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yes! *claps* I wanted to make a picture of rats in a conga line, but I'm too lazy. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 15:34, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
Congratulations! --TalkpageEl_Nazgir 15:43, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! It's with the same company, but a different position in a different department that's a bit more insulated from the economy, meaning I shouldn't get laid off again if the economy gets worse. And it pays more than I was making before. So things are looking really good for us now. ^_^ —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:18, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Congratulations for the awkward and confusing pay-rise. :P A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 22:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, now if only they'd pay me back for the five month intermission. XD —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:56, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

ehm.. hi

Hi, like you already figured out im a new person hehe. I'd love to have something like you did with the characters under eachother but I have no idea how you did that:o I dont mind putting a lot of work into it, but a push in the right direction would be really nice. Also I don't know if that means im copying work and I know thats not allowed. Since your admin I guess you could help me out and tell me if its copying work or not. I also have no idea if this is a private message or open message so .. if its open could you deleet it please? :)

Miss Sarah Lauren 12:32, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it's quite open, but it's not like you're asking him for a date or anything. ;) Jink 14:20, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
The characters index thing is here. Feel free to copy that to your page and play around with it (use the "Preview" button to see the effects of your changes without actually saving the page). If there's anything specific you can't figure out, I'll try to help. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:13, January 27, 2010 (UTC)


Tx for the fix Dr. :D -- F1Sig.png † F1© Talk 17:43, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

np :D —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:22, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
A Quick Fix from Dr. Ishmael? ;o --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 18:50, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
Nice, Are you selling Psycho's? -- F1Sig.png † F1© Talk 19:17, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
Wrong doctor. I believe Doc Hoff can help you. --Macros 00:53, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Hey thats the dude I killed and ate his Brahmin. And after that started to eat him. Good times... Goooood Times... -- F1Sig.png † F1© Talk 11:24, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


Noticed you put them as drops everywhere. Couldn't find any discussion on it. Was there any? If so, where? Just interested in reading it. Thnx =] Lยкץ๒๏ץ talk 21:13, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Just look up a few sections. I can't remember if there was any specific discussion somewhere else that prompted that, though. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:19, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


Please be honest with me if any of my edits aren't correct or right. But please don't be cruel. And BTW! How do you become an Admin in Guild Wiki??? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nore Bane (contribs) .

You can find much information on policy pages: GW:ADMIN, also GW:SIGN. And welcome to GuildWiki. :) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:45, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
See also User:M.mendel/Admin Criteria. --◄mendel► 06:22, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Help adding a picture box for a clipping error

Can you put a picture box under Elite Canthan Female armor so that I may put 2 Pictures showing a clipping issue and a glitch/bug? TheSeer99 00:34, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

What specifically is the issue/bug? If it's just a general clipping issue (like the spikes on Warrior Primeval armor clipping through shields), stuff like that happens with a lot of armors and we usually don't include images to demonstrate it. On the other hand, if it's something more serious or unique to that armor, then we could probably add space for an image. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Also, what profession? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 00:46, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Based on his recent uploads, I would assume Ritualist Elite Canthan armor/Female. — Balistic 01:30, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
yea i said it was for elite canthan for female. and its a clipping issue with the bangels and there is a glitch on the feet TheSeer99 01:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
You didn't say it was for ritualist, that's what Rose was asking about. :P
I can see the clipping issue in the existing images, there's no need for an additional one. I've added a clipping note about that to the template, and you can elaborate on it if you want (e.g, does it still occur if you're holding a weapon, or only if you have nothing equipped?).
I can't see the glitch on the feet, though. Go ahead and upload a detail image for that , and I or Rose (whoever gets to it first) will add it to the page. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:29, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

The clipping occurs both when in idle and when your holding a weapon. The weapon one is on the opposite side of the hand. Here's a pic of the glitch on the foot. Ritelitecanthanglitch.jpg The loss of the color on the feet is linked to the hands. if you remove a black ink arm piece, it removes a small piece of the black ink on the feet. Also if you use other dark ink arm pieces, like Shing Jea arm piece, it adds the ink back, but at a lighter black, almost brown color. TheSeer99 05:24, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

You can see that in the component images: File:Ritualist Elite Canthan Armor F gray chest feet front.jpg, so there's no need for a separate one. I will update the clipping note once I figure out how to use Monobook. >_< RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 14:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Everlasting Reindeer Tonic

Heya. I recently posted on the Everlasting Reindeer Tonic talk page, and since I'm too lazy to retype it, I'll copypaste my explanation here:
"I was chilling in LA id1 the other day, and there happened to be a bunch of people who were all in the reindeer form there. Turns out, they were all guildies and rl friends, and one of them had won the tonic, so he'd passed it around so they could all use it. We struck up a conversation, and I asked them if I could take some screenies of them for the wiki, and they were nice enough to go to a quiet place to get some nice clean pictures. Turns out the tonic can turn someone into one of three different forms, like the Cottontail Tonic can turn into either a white or a brown rabbit. I got pics of all three tonic forms. I also got a pic of the inventory image of the tonic through trade with the guy who had it.
Unfortunately, I'm horrible at wiki formatting, so I'm going to link to the photos I uploaded here on guru, and maybe someone could format them and stick them in the article where they belong."
I know it's hard to get information on such a rare item, so I was excited at this opportunity, and I just wanted to bring it to your attention or the attention or anyone who can set up the article with the pics and info. Thanks so much! <3 Ailina 14:27, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I replied on that talk page. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:23, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Word count

Since you seem to be actively editing right now, and since I know you're knowledgeable, do you happen to know of a mediawiki extension/magic word/code that would allow me to get the word count of an article (or even better, a section of an article)? While I do see code I can use to create a word count tab, I really want something that would let me pull the count into other pages so I can total it. Nwash User-Nwash-Eyes.png 15:24, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I tried a Google search, but could only find something for a word count tab (maybe the same thing you found?) that required hacking the actual MW scripts (so nothing you could do here, anyway). If we had the Winter extension (which I requested from Wikia a while back), you could do something like {{#count | {{#explode |<nowiki> </nowiki>| {{:Page}} }} }}, I think. I don't really know if it's possible without that, although I seem to remember mendel doing something that was somewhat similar a long time ago. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:50, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
That may just be what I need to hack it together. Thankfully, I don't need to do it on this wiki, so I'll look over the docs for that extension and try it out. Thanks. Nwash User-Nwash-Eyes.png 15:57, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, for no reason I can determine, Winter just doesn't seem to handle it correctly, even when I used its own include function. Time for Nwash to learn a new trick: write his own parser function extension. Nwash User-Nwash-Eyes.png 17:26, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Have fun! —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:40, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Or you could copy/paste the section into Word and let Word count it? I don't know how where and when you need it counted, so, sorry if this is completely irrelevant :P --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 19:54, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I think I did write something like that once as an exercise. The idea is to replace the "spaces" with something that is twice as long and compare the length of the string before and after replacing. If you nudge me on irc I can probably dig that up or recode it. Also, Forum:Coding is for these types of questions. --◄mendel► 21:14, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

selling bug-finding software

You might find this paper an intersting read - I did. --◄mendel► 00:59, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Mystery Reward

I'm trying the approach of improving the content instead of suppressing it - and article about this seems to be within our article retention guidelines (we have had an article on Guild Wars 2 quite some time now, and that's been an announcement only for most of its life, too). I wonder why you didn't leave a note with your reasoning on either of the creator's talkpages? --◄mendel► 10:21, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that "Mystery Reward" isn't the actual name of the item, so that once we do know the name (more than likely "Celestial Summoning Stone"), that page is gonna be reduced to a redirect. I didn't see the point in allowing users to spam the article with meaningless edits in the meantime.
The difference between this and Guild Wars 2 is that "Guild Wars 2" is going to be the actual name of the game, and we have a lot of information about it. It's not a very good comparison. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 13:45, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Summoning stone, you say? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 14:23, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yep, there's a description for one in Gw.dat, at least. And since it seems very unlikely that they'll push another game update in the middle of AFK Boardwalk... —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:31, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ooh! What does it say, exactly? Have you posted this somewhere that I can read? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 17:22, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Exactly the same as Mysterious Summoning Stone, except it says "random Celestial" instead of "random ally". —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:25, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Wonder what their skills will be. Better get enough for the whole year. :P RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:03, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, the trick is to frame it so that only meaningful edits or clear vandalism are possible. ;) I expect we can move the page to the final name when we know it, so we have the full history all in one place. --◄mendel► 19:15, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
That's what I was trying to prevent: an article history full of spam. Doing the skill history research made me realize just how annoying it is to deal with after the fact. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:39, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Now that's be an interesting task - writing some program that can read the 8GB full page dump, identify spam reverts, and then delete them from the page histories. It would lower the edit count of our spam fighters, so we should keep a tally of that and post it someplace as a vandalism fighter hall of fame. --◄mendel► 05:49, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Celestial job

... you did there! Maybe you could spare some attention for Celestial and Celestial creature? I've also been pondering whether the missing base pages for the (summon) articles should be redirects. --◄mendel► 06:30, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

What do those need? Besides a more complete list of celestial creatures, of course. Also, I'd think "Celestial" should redirect to "Celestial creature," since "celestial" is really only ever used as a noun when referring to the creatures. The existing page could be moved to "Celestial (disambiguation)" if we keep it at all.
Yeah, those probably should be redirects. I don't feel like making them right now, though. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:34, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

I copied those.

Yes, I did copy the line in below. It just went boom for some reason. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Al Zarigus (contribs) .

EL reindeer tonic again

Hey, sorry I didn't check the EL reindeer tonic page, I was off for a while. However, I contacted the guy who ones the tonic, and he said he'd be happy to let you take a screenie in trade. I gave him one of the char names off your page; I hope that's ok. His ign is Valet Parking. Good luck! :) Ailina 16:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, cool, thanks! I'd completely forgotten about that. I'll try to contact him tonight. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:29, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

phantom edit

[1] - uh... I clearly remember removing the top two lines in there (update and stub templates) just a few days ago, and that was it... WTF? O_o That entire edit should be reverted and then the two top things removed again, but I'm too tired now to think clearly... zzzzz... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:10, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I went ahead and did that. Weird stuff. :/
Oh, and if you find yourself too annoyed by the wiki, go give Jink a hug. ;) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:25, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
<3 Jink 02:28, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
I saw that edit, but didn't look too closely at what you'd actually done (since you're obviously in the group of users I trust to know what you're doing), so when I saw the navbox missing, I figured it was just an accident. Looking at your edit more closely, though... yeah, that's messed up. Were you looking through the page history before you did that, and did you accidentally edit an old version? That would do it. In fact, I think I found exactly the version you edited: here's the diff to what you saved.
I'm planning on finishing my projects on GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Materials and GuildWiki talk:Community Portal#Skill histories, then I'm taking another long break from the wiki. Possibly permanent, but I dunno.
@Jink: <3^2 —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:37, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
Heh, you're probably right. Dunno how that happened - why the hell would I be viewing a June of 2008 edit? O_o Gotta stop editing at 5am... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:51, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Done rawring

I can't rawr this stuff through without someone quickly doing skill templates by using the gw.dat :( It took me 10 minutes (I must need practice typing after my 3 weeks computer-less) to transcribe just 1 skill from the game. Was easy to power through QR stuff and all that when I didn't have to deal with skill descriptions. Tabbed browsing fucking owns --Gimmethegepgun 05:57, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

I'll take my spreadsheet to work and do them this morning. I'm caught up on all the work I need to do this week already, so I'd just be sitting there surfing CNN and Youtube anyway. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 13:53, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


hey, i was checking your site a bit if I could find a few more things to put on my own. When i ended up on your account achievement part, I found a small error. Max kurick is 10 million points and not 12 million. Saves a lot of times to VQ arborstone ;) Miss Sarah Lauren 21:24, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:29, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Game update tuesday 2

Promised the purple squad's Siege Turtle a carrot so it would stay on the path. <-- dont think this is correct O.O? Miss Sarah Lauren 14:46, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Don't be ridiculous - of course it is! I took a whole bag of carrots into the match and the turtle followed just as pretty as you please! (Silliness aside, check the main site's game update page - it is correct.) Jink 14:49, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Lmao really? xD Miss Sarah Lauren 19:05, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yep. Jink 20:27, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
>.> do you need a link? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:54, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
imo. --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 20:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
I guess I just dont understand it but yea well ^.^ Miss Sarah Lauren 07:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
The writer for the game update notes has a sense of humor. That's all. Jink 14:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
Yea thats about my only problem with english really, I dont understand it when people make a joke or use a methaphor, because I dont recognize the sentence :\ Miss Sarah Lauren 17:37, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
But turtles eat vegetables in any language! :P RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 01:35, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
Might help if you said it in Na'vi --Gimmethegepgun 03:39, March 8, 2010 (UTC)