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As a side note.. I don't see being an "echo" Air spiker as useful. Air Magic is cheap and recharges fast. Using Echo will make it take longer and cost more energy. The best thing about Air Magic is you can in 9 seconds cast Chain Lighting, Lightning Orb, Strike, Enervating Charge, Orb again (causing 408 armor penetrating damage) and be ready to cast Chain Lightning again! :) Booyah!! :)

On another side note, do let me know if you ever figure out a potent way of using Thunderclap. Most uselessest elite for me as an Air spiker. :( I have an E/Me too. --Karlos 19:30, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Using Air and Elemental Attunement and Arcane Echo to copy Lightning Orb, you can fling one around every 2 seconds. It's about as damaging on a single target as Chain Lightning minus the exhaustion, so better on the long run and leaves you 4 slots for utilities spells like Blinding Flash and Whirlwind to protect yourself against too friendly warriors. It's a projectile though, so it's probably better using your skill chain against enemies with lots of evade.
As far as thunderclap goes, I've used that trick in 10 or so 4vs4 and it really depends on luck and timing. If you can catch more than one enemy in the area (I once caught all four), it really worth it. Timing it properly is really the hard part, as the wand will usually fire faster than they can get up, so they'd get a second or two standing up, which is no good at all. To counter that, I tried stepping back and forth real quick, then let autotargeting pick up. That seemed to work ok, but taking into account the flight time of the wand's projectile is tricky. The biggest problem, asside from the timing, is that you're really not doing much damage to your target (even with Conjure Lightning) while still wasting a lot of energy. I've recieved some insults after beating other teams while using this, so I must have been doing a good job at interupting them. :) --theeth 21:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, Orb's projectile stinks. It hurts when that chunk of energy and casting time is wasted because the stupid Shadow Beast decided to Consume Corpse! :)
I have discovered that using the weapon's damage is not a good way to use Thunderclap. It's almost a sure fire way to lose energy in a hearbeat and as you said, knockdowns are not consistent.
I am thinking the best way to use it is in conjuction with two tactics.. Energy Tap (or a necro ally's BiP) plus Lightning Stike AND a non-lightning weapon. i.e. you want to control exactly when the knockdown will take place. So, you carry a non-lightning weapon to avoid overusing it (while being able to attack) and then you use Strike whenever you want to knockdown people. You basically turn into a mesmer waiting for the right time to use Cry of Frustration.
I'll try this in PvE and report on it's usability. --Karlos 21:52, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
I actually find I get the most use from Thunderclap when a Mesmer. Fastcasting (plus a cast reduction wand and focus) makes it easier to time the knockdown (Lightning Strike's 1 second cast is a bit long for my tastes as an interrupt). The energy loss hurts, but if you have a friendly BiPer or some good energy management it's doable.--Kiiron 23:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


Not quite sure what you're trying to say there about Java... I think if anything it pretends to be a programming language, lol... --Jamie 06:43, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

Even worse, it pretends to be an enterprise programming language...
Seriously, I was refering to the facts that Java has primitives that aren't objects, functions/methods which aren't first class citizens, no multiple inheritance and other quirks which I'm forgetting right now. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 06:50, 13 June 2006 (CDT)
You can finagle lexical closures in Java with their anonymous classes feature. Also Generic Java (which is soon to become standard Java) will have true lambdas. Multiple inheritance of object classes is just a broken concept, so I am glad Java doesn't support it. 90% of the time you want MI for interfaces, which Java supports. The 10% of the time you really could use MI for object classes, your code is already an unmaintainable mess and you should be fired. </geekout> –70.20 06:59, 13 June 2006 (CDT)
Sun has been playing catchup with other OO languages for years, people who say "The next release will fix it" are just in denial. Using Interfaces in place of MI means you either have duplicated code spread out here and there or have to create functional objects to hold common/varying behaviors. Note that a good part of the most common design patterns used in Java can be solved faster and clearer with MI or metaclassing. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 07:16, 13 June 2006 (CDT)


please only put your comments on talk pages, not on other ppl's user pages. This is with respect to User:Honorable Sarah. Thanks . --User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 16:58, 16 June 2006 (CDT)

Sorry, I thought that was his\her talk page, I'll go revert. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2006 (CDT)
it's ok, i waffled on weather to place that on my talk page or user page. it's in that grey area. --Honorable Sarah 17:18, 16 June 2006 (CDT)

Shroud of Silence[]

Good catch there, thanks for fixing it. I could have sworn I was on the template when I made my edit; I was just changing the 3/4 to be ¾ . I must've been too sleepy yet this morning and hit history somehow. Weird. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 09:12, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

re: Talk:Me/any_FUBAR_Mesmer[]

i use Shame and Backfire (or Guilt and Backfire for an offensive caster) on one target, then go look for another target to interupt, usually Psychic Distraction. granted i am 1) new at mesmering, and 2) primarily PvE, but that combination has worked well for me. --Honorable Sarah Honorable Icon.gif 14:34, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Backfire isn't bad for PVE, the AI isn't too smart, but for PVP, that's one of the first hex people learn to recognize, so they either wait it out or remove it ASAP. Shame and Guilt are nice since they act as a mix between energy denial and energy management, but the recharge rate make them really secondary energy management skills. Psychic Distraction is the focus of my new baby.
Playing a mesmer in PVP is a whole other dynamic than in PVE. The AI in PVE rarely stop attacking/casting when hexed, but their removal speed is much greater, so hexes are both more and less potent in PVE, depending on the availability of removal skills. Also, energy denial is much more useful in PVP than it is in PVE, where the numbers are usually against you, edenying an opponent is barelly useful since they die fast, while in PVP, shutting down an opponent means it's 4vs3 for a while. Also, interupts are a much more important part of a PVP build, if only to stop those pesky rez signets from firing.
Uhm... all that talking reminded me, we don't have an Effective mesmer guide yet... --Theeth Assassin (talk) 21:52, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
i wrote three, i've served my commitment to the community. get on it! ;p --Honorable Sarah Honorable Icon.gif 11:30, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
Fine, you've convinced me. Draft is there: User:Theeth/Effective Mesmer Guide--Theeth Assassin (talk) 18:27, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
Yay for guilt trips! --Honorable Sarah Honorable Icon.gif 01:10, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

Translation from French to English[]

Moved to User talk:Aratak, as he completed the translations for me already. :) —Tanaric 13:25, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

Damn, missed a chance for my french skillz to be useful. Maybe another time. :) --Theeth Assassin (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

About RV[]

The attack type is not meant to be part of the description as it is added where necessary. Please do not revert my edits until I have finished the new Assassin skills quick reference and you will see why. — Galil Ranger 09:56, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

I was just going to leave you a message about that actually. As it is right now, those skills do not indicate the type of attack they are (or count as) just the one they require. I tried to start a discussion about that in the past ( Template_talk:Skill box#Dagger Skills stat0 ) but it never really kicked off. I'll wait patiently until you're done now. :) --Theeth Assassin (talk) 09:59, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
If you would be so kind as to look at Dagger Mastery skills, you will see why the type should not be in the description and why it isn't on any other skills. ;) Thanks though. — Galil Ranger 10:01, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
Excellent! While you do that, I'll edit the images to add a transparent background instead of the silly white. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 10:02, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
Way ahead of you. :D — Galil Ranger 10:06, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
I uploaded an alpha version of DualAttack required.png right after you did yours. I reverted to yours after seeing it though. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 10:11, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
There's still lack of transparency on Dual Attack.png, Lead Attack.png and Off-Hand Attack.png though, if you want to add transparency to those. ;) — Galil Ranger 10:14, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
Done --Theeth Assassin (talk) 10:18, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

Currently Testing the Viability of…[]

Hey, could you just take a glance at the above named section on my page and just give me a quick review on my discussion page for each one? Basically this is my personal solution to the lack of comments in the Category:Untested builds section (I agree there should be more, but I'm getting tired of all the arguing about it, people just keep repeating the same things and nothing really gets done/decided). My hope is that by doing this and then asking people for feedback, not votes, I can get the builds perfected before the untested section and save the testers a lot of grief. So far it seems to be working, and I look forward to your help. Thanks in advance.--Azroth 22:42, 8 September 2006 (CDT)
PS-Please read the previous discussions for each one as they may answer any questions that you have about the related build.

Healer's Covenant note[]

Just FYI, the healing reduction happens because it is "gain health", not healing - not because it isn't a spell, check the other note. — Skuld 10:54, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Interesting. That's probably the only skill that says spells actually acts on all skills. --Theeth Assassin (talk) 11:03, 18 April 2007 (CDT)